← The Right Time with Bomani Jones
The Right Time with Bomani Jones
Vinnie Goodwill on Kevin Durant-Rockets Concerns, Wemby-Thunder rivalry, Knicks NBA Finals or Bust? | 02.20
00:54:40
Loading summary
Transcript133 lines
- [00:00]
A
Foreign. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Right Time A Wave original. My name is Bomani Jones. Thanks for listening wherever you get your podcast. Thanks for watching us on YouTube. Subscribe like, rate us, review us, give us five stars. You only give us four stars. I'm inclined to believe you are a hater. It is Vinnie Goodwill Friday. Vinnie Goodwill. Check him out on espn. Boy on first take this week, holding it down. Saw you on there last week doing
- [00:33]
B
a little bit, man, getting a little extra reps, you know what I mean? It's all star break, so people going to Cancun, you know, they do the baseball thing, they, you know, call your boy ass.
- [00:45]
A
I mean, you and Stephen A. Was out there trying to bully the homie David Dennis. You know what I'm saying?
- [00:51]
B
It looked bad. I mean, I'm saying it looked bad. He was just saying some crazy stuff.
- [00:56]
A
Well. Well, what happened was he. I don't know what exactly he said that pissed Stephen A. Off. Like, that doesn't happen very much. But Stephen A. Was like, yo, you ain't gonna get very far in this segment. Not answering the question. He wasn't talking about the segment. He was like, hey, you'll be here when I'm not. If you gonna be here when I'm here, you gonna answer my question?
- [01:17]
B
You know what it was? It was max ptsd. That's all it was. Yeah, yeah.
- [01:23]
A
But I will say this. We got a good all star game.
- [01:27]
B
Yes.
- [01:27]
A
This go round, we got a good all star game, largely because you got to do it out there. Who'll be pitching? People's. And that will make you be on your P's and Q's, like the best weak side shot blocker that basketball has ever seen. Uk, you don't have a big brother. I got a. I just a big brother. My big brother's 13 years older than me. No shot was ever safe. Didn't matter how far away he was. Right. You have to be so dedicated. Like, that's the underrated part of the NBA, how quick you got to get them shots up because they're just. Even the guys you think can't play defense. N. They can't. They can't. Like, if they was playing against you, you would think that they was Jason Vorhees too, right? You. You would think they all were. But now the guy that's Jason Vorhees to Jason Vorhees is out here. Oh, the Allar gang gonna have to pick up because he gonna pitch his to the front row.
- [02:17]
B
I mean, I remember I told you a long Time ago. All it takes is one maniac. And sometimes that maniac was Mike. Sometimes that maniac was Kobe. Now the maniac is Big Slim. And Big Slim, I firmly believe. And Edwards had no designs on playing hard in that All Star game. He came out there with the hoop earring. When you coming out with a hoop earring, you ain't got no designs on playing hard. That hoop earring could get ripped out like Laurence Fishburne in that one movie, you know? You know what I mean? Like, you never know, right? Because Big Vic is out here pitching shit. You gotta be. One thing NBA players don't want to be is embarrassed by their peers. So if one guy is doing it, then you know what? We all gotta fight on this lie. And this lie is that we gotta be competitive. And that's all it took. And I didn't care at the last game. But Bow was a blowout. The old dudes had played three straight games. They was going to be tied. We all got our money's worth Sunday afternoon. And I think. I don't think we were asking too much. And I think the players delivered like they. They exceeded the expectations.
- [03:26]
A
Well, just act like this thing, like, act like you want to be there. Like, I don't think it needs to be Game 7 of the NBA Finals. I think that people would settle for it looking like a charity game from the 1980s. Right, right. Like watching Isaiah Thomas lay on his back and do dribbling tricks. I think people would be okay with that. You know what I mean? Like, just look. Look like it's something, right? Just. It doesn't matter really what the something is, but just look like it's something because what. Look, this is what we. We got to come to understand about the All Star Game as the calendar for the NFL has changed. Like, you go back and you look at it, they used to play the super bowl on, like, January 15th. It is gradually over the years, move back a full month as to where next year, it's going to be the day before President's Day where the NBA got moved off its corner and is going to have to play the All Star Game on a different weekend. The super bowl is house in Valentine's Day, baby. This is, you know, this is what it's going to do. But what happens for the NBA and why that week turns so negative? Is this country addicted to football, man? And so they go from being all juiced up and all wired up about football, and then they're like, all right, football's over. Well, what's Going on in basketball. Well, the All Star game is this week. Are you serious? And then you get to the All Star game, the dunk contest, right? They gonna. They put it out his misery. Many times they gonna put it out as misery before they bring it back. But that. That ain't what we remember it being. Then you get to the game and the Cats ain't really out here playing, and you'll be like, yeah, well, the Pro bowl is terrible, too. And you're right. And when the Pro bowl was terrible by. We said the Pro bowl was terrible, and that's why they moved to flag football. The difference is the Pro bowl had an excuse for being terrible because nobody should be playing football just for the hell of it. You know what I mean? But for the NBA, the country is right here. They scratching, they itching, they missing that football, right? I got to have it. But it's gone now. And then when you come back, it's a lesser version of an All Star game than it should be. That's why they can't afford to let it slack. Like, if people had a couple weeks to ease into it, like, if. Like, let's say it came out of football season and went into the NBA Cup, I think that would work. I think that would go. Now, of course, you can't. Right. Like, the cup serves a different purpose, Right? But you coming off the football and then y' all out here trotting out some bullshit. Nah, man. And people look for a reason to kill the NBA anyway. No, it ain't gonna work.
- [05:58]
B
Well, that's the thing. And that was one of the points that David was trying to make. But he was trying to make it a much grander point than it was was, you know. Well, people don't want it. People want any excuse to talk about the NBA being these overpaid millionaires. True. But sometimes we just talking about ball, and we don't.
- [06:18]
A
Yeah, we had a broken clock situation.
- [06:20]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It just happened to meet. It just happened to meet right at the right time, Pun intended. I think that's a good point. I also think, Bo, there are markers that come into the NBA season now. It's like opening night, opening week. Like, you get a couple of good matchups that. That get. That get you a little. You know, get you a little juice. Then you go back, and then the NBA cup happens in Vegas, like, a month and a half later, and then it's Christmas Day, and then we all into the football. Because right from Christmas Day to Valentine's Day or whatever. It is you all in high stakes football. You went to the end of the regular season, you into the wild car, into the, you know, you enter the super bowl, you into everything else. People dip in and out. And once it's time for All Stars, like, okay, the trade deadline, them pass, let me dip back in there. All right, now the NBA, you got my attention. What you going to do with it and what they've done with it has been nothing for the past X amount of years. And the one thing I do because I think kd, despite all this other stuff, KD is really good at creating the straw man. And when he sat in front of us the other week and said, you know, I've been watching these All Star games to see this Type of Game 7 intensity y' all been talking about. We never asked for no Game 7 intensity. We don't want to see no Game 7 intensity because we know y' all got teams to go back to. We know as soon as the game starts to get out of hand, it's going to be 1, 2, 3, Cancun. And we ain't even mad about that. Go to Cancun, get your break. Because in four or five days, the grind is coming right back. And then you start seeing the ramp up for the NBA. And to be honest, Bo, the ramp up. All this conversation about the All Star game has obscured the fact that there's been some good basketball this season and there's going to be more good basketball in the final two months of the regular season before we get to the playoffs. I understand them saying, hey man, enjoy what you got in front of you. My thing is don't. Don't take away from what's in front of you.
- [08:18]
A
Yeah, and look, it's about to be a thing, guys like, like the hoop is about to be for real. Like, I saw something online. It was a clip of Dan Lebatar was talking to Chuck Klosterman about football. And I don't know what's happened to Dan since I left, but he's gone. He's gone analytic minded in a way that doesn't add up to me. But he was saying, basically the thing about the point he was making about football was that he'd rather watch football in a dome because he wants to watch the game to find out who the better team is and that you get a better metric of who the better team is if you are playing it under most optimal circumstances. And Klosterman, I think, correctly made the point that we don't watch games to find out who the better team is. We watch them to see who's going to win. Right? Like, part of the charm of it is that sometimes the. The team that isn't the best wins. Sometimes it is about. Or being the best is about your ability to overcome a certain set of circumstances or being like. Sometimes those circumstances are weather, sometimes those circumstances are bad matchups. Right? But a tournament is a gauntlet. It is not about. It's not about evaluating the teams. It's about testing the teams and who's going to come out on top in. In the end. Sometimes that's not going to be who's best. This NBA season feels like one of those. Where it's narrowed in the west just a little bit. Right? Like, we see that the Thunder are no longer just, just. I mean, early in the year we thought they were going to win 75 games. I mean, it was a reasonable question that they were going to do that. Now they're only three games ahead of the Spurs. Right. Like, I don't think the spurs are going to catch them, but. But it would not be crazy. I think we generally believe that the Thunder is the best team in the NBA. There are metrics that indicate that they are by far the best team in the NBA. Some of this regression to the rest of the league has also been as a result of injuries. But you and I both know they don't want to see the Spurs.
- [10:24]
B
No.
- [10:25]
A
If it comes down to it, no. But we also know the spurs might not want to see the Nuggets. Right. This is a year where the matchups in the playoffs feel like they're going to matter a lot more than they have in previous years. And there are legitimately, I think, five teams that somehow could win the championship.
- [10:48]
B
It's funny, you hit on so much there. So I'll start off where you landed in any given year. Like, let's just play a game real quick. I'll name a year and you tell me the teams that had a realistic chance of winning the championship that year, regardless of whether they won or not. But you know what I'm saying? Just. Just rock with me for the sake of this exercise. 1993.
- [11:15]
A
Three.
- [11:17]
B
Right. You gonna say Suns, The Suns, the
- [11:19]
A
Knicks and the bulls.
- [11:20]
B
Right. 1998.
- [11:25]
A
1998. I leaned three, maybe four.
- [11:32]
B
Right. And I'll give you. And one more, because this is a. This is a fun one for me. 2005.
- [11:40]
A
Ooh, 2005. I go to. Who did the Pistons play in the conference? Final day?
- [11:48]
B
Miami. That was the first year of Shaq.
- [11:50]
A
That's right. I go four.
- [11:52]
B
So in any given year. And we went three, four, five. And that wasn't. That was actually by accident. But it serves the point right. In any given year, you may have just four. And it's not always the four teams that make the conference finals, because sometimes somebody can get knocked out earlier for whatever reason. Like 1994, Seattle looked like the best team in the league, except they ran into the worst matchup of all time with the Denver Nuggets. Take that away from.
- [12:18]
A
Or you get caught in a tricky two, three, right?
- [12:19]
B
You get. You get caught in one of those weird situations in the second round. And that could be Denver and San Antonio in the second round this year. That could be Boston and New York in the second round this year. In any given year. There's only going to be four teams this year. That feels like five. And that's if you include Detroit amongst the five. I have a hard time doing that. Only because, boy, you can't name a team. Only the 95 Orlando Magic, that goes from not winning the playoff series to getting all the way to the NBA Finals without a significant personnel acquisition offseason, I. E. LeBron James going from Miami to Cleveland, Cleveland to Miami, or Kevin Garnett going from Minnesota to Boston. Like their storylines. I say that to say the storylines are so rich, the basketball is. Is going to be really, really, really good in the last two months of the season. And even if you look at the Eastern Conference quietly, BO The Eastern Conference has the ability to be superior in a lot of ways that we don't think about. And to your point about attrition, or you have. You didn't say the word attrition, but I'm just going to add everything up and say that you said attrition. What people take away from 82 games is, and why I don't think that the league should go away from 82 games is this is a test of attrition. How well can you withstand the potholes, the bumps, the bruises that go through this season and then get to April and then have enough stamina and experience and maybe a little bit of youth to get to June? It's not just about June. It's about everything that it takes to get there. And we make the mistake sometimes through conversation, of only focusing on who's going to get to June as opposed to, man, this is really compelling on the way to June. You never forget about June, but it's the compelling basketball that happens on the way there, whether it's Minnesota and what Ant is doing quietly. Player development story. Right. If Jokic is going to be MVP again, if we turn, if we come to respect Oklahoma City a lot more because of the struggle that they're going to go through this season. Like, it's so much richness there. And I'm not being like an NBA shield here. I'm just saying that we've only focused on a narrow way of talking about the NBA. Whether it's the All Star, whether it's low management, whether it's the nonsense that sometimes we miss the basketball. And even though I hate the rules and everything else, the basketball has been good and it's going to get better.
- [14:53]
A
So let's start with the west, then go back to the East. Right. Forget about championship just for a second. Let's just think about teams that can make the Western Conference finals. I think there are five of them that can make the Western Conference finals. Thunder, Spurs, Nuggets, Rockets, and the Timberwolves. Now, all of this kind of depends on the way that the seeding shakes out. And yes, you will notice the one team I said no on is the Lakers. I just don't. I. I think JJ Redick has a low key argument for coach of the year for this team having 33 wins given everything that they are in a zero point differential. Right, right, right. They are. They are a 50, 50 team in terms of the points. Right. Anthony Edwards has shown us in Minnesota, has shown us. You don't want to see them in the playoffs. No, not necessarily they going to go to the championship, but they gonna, they gonna give you a run like the. I mean, it's easy to forget they've been to the conference finals twice in a row. Yeah. And in such a way where in a different time we would be saying, all right, well, it's now, now for you guys to go. But this is an era of more NBA parody, so I guess we view it just a little bit more fairly. But we've seen enough to know Denver don't really want to see them in the first round. If it comes to that. I think Denver would much rather see the Lakers in the first round if it comes. I think just about everybody over there would like to see the Lakers in the first round if they got to see somebody.
- [16:17]
B
No, I will, I will quibble with you on one. I think Houston would probably rather see Minnesota than the Lakers, only because the Lakers are really good at winning close games. The Rockets are not. And despite there being what I believe to be a significant gap between how good the Rockets are and how good the Lakers are. If the equalizer is how you perform in close games in the playoffs, that's where it gets sticky. And I was, I was curious if you were going to name the Rockets for that very reason. They don't have a point guard. They are 12 and 15 and clutch games and clutches defined as within five points in the last five minutes. But they can overwhelm you defensively. Right? And that's the weird part about autism, that's the weird part about this whole parody discussion, is that every team, even the Thunder to some degree, every team is flawed. Every team has a flaw that can get you knocked out of a playoff series if you, if the wrong matchup comes and hits you in Minnesota. To your point, they don't really necessarily have a point guard either. Even though they got Mike Conley back. He's older. You're not going to depend on him to be that 40 minute, you know, a night guy. Can Anthony Edwards do it again? What Giants? What giant is he going to knock out? Think of the Giants he's knocked out already. He sent Kevin Durant home. He sent Nicola Jokic home. He sent a hobbled Stephen Curry home. I can't even really say that because Steph only played one game and then one game that they lost, he, he sent LeBron home. He sent virtually everybody home that they have put in front of him, including Luka Doncic last year with the Lakers. It who's going to be the next guy that he sends home because he ain't going out in the first round. I think that kid has a different sort of approach to himself that we think of him as being so playful and unserious that the basketball is like, wait a minute. When it gets time, the nut cutting time, he's defending LeBron or he's taking the Jamal Murray matchup or he's doing stuff on both ends of the floor while carrying Carl Towns, Rudy Gobert and Julius Randall across the finish line. Hell yeah. I, I'd be tired getting to the conference finals too. Get that man a ring for getting out the second round.
- [18:32]
A
This about the Rocket since you brought them up? Get off my Dickerson says that they a sorry ass team. I just felt like they didn't have a point guard. Yeah, I just felt like they didn't have a point guard. Like what do you think about them top to bottom?
- [18:45]
B
I think to me, and this is old school basketball sensibilities, right? If you don't have a point guard and you can't protect the rim, how Good. Are you right, Alperin Shingoon for being mini Jokic and everything else? He's not that. He's not that guy. He is a level of talent that you can build around. But when your coach is calling you out, when IME Udoka is calling you out and saying, man, we've been having problems with Shingun on defense for the whole year. I think, I don't think they're a sorry ass team. I think that was a big heavy handed by whoever said that, right?
- [19:21]
A
I mean, get off my Diggers and said that the Hornets basically would be better if they had Kevin Durant then. Excuse me, Get Off My Dickerson said the Hornets would be better if Get Off My Dickerson played for the Hornets, then the Rockets are. If Get Off My Dickerson played for
- [19:39]
B
the Rockets, I would. I don't know if I completely agree with that because I don't know if LaMelo Ball is a serious point guard at this stage. And considering some of the stuff that I've seen like, you know, Miles Bridges and some of these other guys engage it, I don't know how they were going to really fare when it comes down to, you know, playoff situations. I do believe in IME as, excuse me, as a playoff coach. I believe in a man, Thompson, because I think when all this is over, he's going to be the last man standing, you know, unless they go get Giannis or something this offseason. Like, I think, I think they have stuff they are just not complete. And I think Get Off My Dickerson knows what complete teams look like because maybe Get Off My Dickerson has played on a couple of complete teams perhaps. And the crazy part is Get Off My Dickerson has played on complete teams that did not even make the NBA Finals.
- [20:32]
A
Yeah, yeah, that, that is, that is a fair theory to have about Get Off My Dickerson that that is what informs his uproarious commentary is that right there. The rest of the thing in the west to me is Denver, I think we feel is a complete team that we just haven't seen play together that much. But with all the time Jokic missed and they still are where they are, I don't, you know, find somebody finally played to all star level. By the time the all star game had come around, the, the prospect like the spurs have to really want the Rockets to catch Denver because I don't think the. I don't think the Rockets really want no parts of the spurs, but I also don't think the spurs want to play the Nuggets I don't think the
- [21:15]
B
spurs want to play the Nugget. I think the weird thing is they, whoever plays, probably wants the Lakers to sit in that four, five, probably wants the Lakers to get out of the first round so you don't have to see whatever it is, right? You're like, oh yeah, we can handle the Lakers. They don't got defense, they don't get size. LeBron is old. Whatever it is, like you're rooting for an upset so you don't come away from the second round with scars. And I think if you're the Denver Nuggets, you are praying that Aaron Gordon is healthy and that Jokic is healthy and that Jamal Murray, who's been remarkably durable this year, does not wear down. Like, the one complaint that you might have had about Jamal Murray 2 years ago when they got knocked out by Denver was that, man, he looked tired by the end of that series. And because he stepped up and played at an all star level in the games that Jokic has missed, in addition to, you know, Peyton Watson and some of these guys that you won't know their names until you see them in the playoffs. Like, that's the beautiful thing about the NBA sometimes is, oh yeah, we know about YIC and Jamal Murray. And you know, da da, da. You're like, wait a minute, Michael Porter Jr. Don't play for them no more. Cam Johnson, I have seen him before. Like, it's one of those things where you're going to get introduced to new guys. And I think like you said BO to me, they are the most complete team in basketball, top to bottom, because you have the shooting, you have the secondary playmaking, you have some rim protection. That's not Nicola Jokic like. And they have the heartbreak of losing last year to a team in Oklahoma City that they very well could have and should have beaten had they had health. And now you're asking them to have health. If Aaron Gordon comes back from his recent injury and and is able to be fresh and then can make it through the playoffs, it's, it's. The west is going to be super fascinating at the top. The east is going to be fascinating top to bottom.
- [23:07]
A
So I don't think Jokic is going to be able to play enough games to get into the award running. And I just like to not everybody that has this huge problem now with the 65 game limit that people absolutely rooted for when they brought it around because they thought it would get guys to play more games. The truth is the MVP always plays more than 65 games like that. Like, on. On that level. That rule typically enforces itself.
- [23:31]
B
Buddy Walton was the only one.
- [23:33]
A
YIC Walton's the only one. Right. But let me tell you something, man. For whatever the advanced numbers are worth, Y is low key. Having quite possibly like the greatest NBA season than anybody has ever seen. It is unreal how good he is. Like, in all the things that you pointed to about what makes the Duggins good, it's just gone to the point that, you know, you have to say out loud, they have the best player in the world.
- [23:58]
B
Yeah, look, we did one of these, you know, Tim Bontems does one of these straw poll MVP things at every, you know, quartermark of the season. And I was looking and I was like, who else? It's like. It's like Stevie wonder in the 70s. Who's going to win the Grammy this year to Stevie Wonder put an album out. Yes. Then he gets. Then he gets, you know, album of the year. That's where we are with Jokic. And add to the fact both since he's come back, he hasn't even looked like himself, like, completely. Like, the touch hasn't come all the way back, which you can expect when you miss that much, you know, basketball over a concentrated period of time, and yet the numbers are still insane. The fact that he's like, y' all can lead the league in assist and rebounding, like, wait a minute. We. This is like white wilt. Like, and. Except he's not doing this as a challenge. He's doing this as a function of how he plays. And the question once again becomes, will he be able to hold up to the rigors? He looked worn down in that Game seven against OKC last year where they put Alex Caruso on him. I'm not saying, like, he should feel as insulted by them putting Alex Cruz on him as he should feel insulted by them putting Chad Holmgren on him.
- [25:13]
A
Yeah. Everybody seems to be insulted by the idea putting Chad Holmgur on him. Like, that's the thing with the Spurs. Like, the idea of a Victor Jokic matchup. Look, thank you.
- [25:22]
B
No, no, wait.
- [25:23]
A
As.
- [25:23]
B
No, the idea of a Victor. Check. Playoff series.
- [25:28]
A
Well, hold on, hold on. We gotta. We. We got time. We got time.
- [25:31]
B
Okay, okay, okay.
- [25:33]
A
The Victor Y situation is how that goes in the postseason. Just because Jokic is so much bigger.
- [25:38]
B
Yeah.
- [25:38]
A
Like.
- [25:39]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [25:39]
A
Heavy wise. Than he is. Like that one. That's why I think the spurs are not really the matchup that they want. The reason, I mean, that the Nuggets aren't The matchup that the spurs want, the spurs and the Thunder. The question we all had last year about the Thunder, if they was just a little bit too thin, right, A little light in the ass to get it done, if that is the description you have, Victor is like, yeah, let's play them. I think that could be a lot of fun, guys. What do you think? Yeah, I think we should do that.
- [26:05]
B
I think I saw some numbers that say Jokic is averaging like 36 and 12 against B. Everybody got a kryptonite dog. Vic can be Jason Voorhees, and it don't matter. That's Freddy Krueger over there. You know what I mean? Like, it does not ma. It does. Does not matter. Like, I tend to believe that from a matchup standpoint, Vic is like the only, like, super talk. I'm say super talk. I got Luke Cornett over there. But what Denver, what San Antonio does is we got guard penetration and we going to break you down. And then whether it's pitch out to the Harrison Barnes of the world or we get it up top to Vic, like, that may not bother Denver as much as. Right, it bothers Oklahoma City. Oklahoma City is not used to getting broken down at the point of attack all the time. Denver is. I mean, Oklahoma City is not used to you being able to throw multiple defenders at Shea Gilge's Alexander and have enough to go at Jalen Williams at the same time. And having this big pterodactyl at the rim, which means, hey, y', all, everybody stay down. Don't jump, don't fall, don't fall for the pump fake. Send them to me. And that's the one place you don't want to go. So, yeah, when you talk about these matchups, man, it's all. It all depends on who gets to that. Two, three. Cause you may. You may want to get the top seat this year, but I don't think Oklahoma City is relinquishing that.
- [27:33]
A
Yeah, and then, I mean, the idea that the Thunder could look like the
- [27:40]
B
future,
- [27:43]
A
and then nothing really changed except Victor got a year older. That was the only thing that really changed. Victor got a year older. And then it's like, oh, wait, there's somebody else here. Like, I saw the numbers. ESPN says there's a 70% chance that Thunder win the West, a 9% chance for Oak for the spurs, and I think it was a 9% chance for the Nuggets. I'm like, that nine for the spurs feels low, low, low, low.
- [28:06]
B
Once again, I go, like, to the Detroit thing. San Antonio ain't even made the playoffs yet. That feels like such a massive jump. Like, I don't think we give enough to. How much stamina is required to get through a playoff series, let alone three, when you've never done it before? When you've never done it before, and all of a sudden you're expected to go through the gauntlet of, they can beat Oklahoma City, right? Let's say they do. Tell me how much they gonna have left after that series.
- [28:41]
A
That's true.
- [28:42]
B
Tell me what. What if that's. That's gonna be their NBA Finals? Like, we beat. We beat them. We beat those dudes. We are built to beat those dudes. We don't like those dudes. We can't stand them dudes. Fuck them as a staff, record label and as a crew, right? That's how they feel. Then you gotta gear up for Houston or Denver or Minnesota, who's going to be sitting there waiting with their own scars, but with their own experience. Like, experience can never be overrated. In these playoffs, especially this year's NBA playoffs, you got to have some pain. And I don't think San Antonio has had any level of pain yet, man.
- [29:21]
A
Yeah. And I think. But I do think the Thunder, those nice guys, need to find it somewhere because their trick bag. They like Drake against the spurs in that. Drake don't hate them dudes as much. He just. He just like. Like, Drake did not hate Kendrick the way them dudes hate back.
- [29:40]
B
So he's J. Cole, then, Jake?
- [29:43]
A
Well, no. Well, J. Cole just opted out. This is not an option here. Like, I don't think that Drake didn't have a problem with Kendrick. It just wasn't the same. Right. Victor and the rest of those guys hate the Thunder so much. And I just don't know if you're not that type, how you dial it up.
- [30:03]
B
I hate the way that you walk, the way that you talk. They hate everything the over city stands for. I don't know where it comes from. And you.
- [30:14]
A
Yes, you do. Well, it's very clear where it comes from. Victor hates Chet. And what seems clear is that Victor is contagious in that way. Right? Victor said, I hate Chet. And that means they all hate Chet. And that means they got to hate everybody else because the mother catches riding with Chad. That's how it happened. He's that guy. I don't feel like we've had that guy in a while who's just like, all right, we hate them now. All right, dog. We hate him.
- [30:42]
B
Yeah. Who Gonna challenge him and say, we not who. Gonna challenge big in the locker room and say no.
- [30:46]
A
But it's not even about challenging. It's about. I now feel exactly the same way that you do.
- [30:52]
B
Yeah, yeah. No, I'm just saying. Who's gonna say that we don't. Who. Who's gonna say. I'm saying.
- [30:57]
A
Forget about who says it. It's not about don't. Now. We all do. They're not pretending to hate them now. Now they all do, because he said that's what it's about to be.
- [31:11]
B
Yeah. Somehow it just became ingrained in them and.
- [31:16]
A
Yeah. Yeah.
- [31:17]
B
Shay Sprita corps, baby. Yeah. This is it. This is it. And this is the crazy thing that we've been kind of waiting on with Oklahoma City, like, to some degree, Golden State was hated in, like, a different kind of way, because how dare y' all be so good and then go get Kevin Durant, Right? All right, You. You shift the competitive balance in the league, and then that became a thing. Oklahoma City ain't really hateable. Like, they're hateable from the standpoint of, man, you don't like the ethics. You don't like how necessarily how Shay be moving around and everything else and how they do things. But you can't hate them for, like, a basketball standpoint. Not really. These dudes hate them. No, you.
- [31:55]
A
Oh, yeah, well, you can.
- [31:57]
B
You can hate Lou Dort. You can. No, no, no.
- [32:03]
A
Yeah, you can hate the foul. Merchant. Merchant deal exchange that they run over there. I mean, they got a heavy door proportion over there. Like, it's a. There. There's. There's. There's room for it. And, hey, man, Spurs. Spurs got a lot of, like, dreadlocks that, like. I know they real dreadlocks, you know what I'm saying? Like, they ain't no. Ain't no extensions going on over there. Like, it's. It's a lot of cats over there you don't want no problems with. But, hey, coming up next, we gonna talk about what's going on in the East. And my one question, I will ask Vinnie that. I will have a crazy look on my face when I ask. Ever wanted to go to the NBA Finals? Well, now's your chance, courtesy of FanDuel. All you have to do is use your profit boost on an NBA future and you'll be entered for a shot to win an NBA Finals trip for two NBA futures. Let you lock in your pick for who you think will go all the way, whether it's a team to win the championship. Or a conference title. Visit FanDuel.com Bomani to get started, play your game with FanDuel, official sports betting partner of the NBA 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas and
- [33:07]
B
affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 and present in D.C. kansas, Wyoming. Opt in requirement awards are non withdrawable restriction supply including bonus and token expiration
- [33:18]
A
leg requirements and max wager amount eternal
- [33:21]
B
sportsdual.fanduel.com gambling problem call 1-800- gambler or
- [33:25]
A
visit rg-help for.com call 1-888-789-7777 or visit
- [33:32]
B
ccpg.org chatincut visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-87 hope ny or text hope ny in New York.
- [33:54]
A
All right, we're back with Vinnie Goodwill of espn and my question is very simple because I can't believe we're bringing this up. The Celtics really about to bring Jason Tatum back.
- [34:08]
B
I feel like I'm crazy. I feel like I'm the only person that is crazy here and thinking why is he coming back? Unless he thinks this is part of the Jason Tatum story that's going to make him face of the league or something like that. Like he thinks this is the next quotable thing that he's going to do in his Truman show, in his Truman show career. I don't get it. You are in year one of an extension that is I think 300 plus million dollars. Which means in this luxury tax apron world you got two $300 million players locked up for the next X amount of years. And if you choose to keep them, the template for Achilles injuries returns is Kevin Durant at 588 days. That was almost the equivalent of what a season and a half because he missed the 1920 season and early part of 2021 when we had Covid and he came back to looking like Kevin Durant. I know. The difference is Jason Tatum is younger than KD was by a few years and had fewer playoff miles on his body, believe it or not, despite and
- [35:10]
A
they apparently got him on the operating table faster than is ordinarily the case.
- [35:14]
B
Yeah, they got him the next day got I think the same thing happened with with Dominique Wilkins. Dominique Wilkins when he tore his Achilles. He got on the table the very
- [35:21]
A
next day, by the way, was the gold standard.
- [35:23]
B
Right. And he came back the next year and was averaging 30 until, you know, they traded him. Right, but I don't see the benefit
- [35:32]
A
of Jason Tatum for Danny Manning, who didn't even come back the next season. Sorry, sorry, you were talking about.
- [35:41]
B
I'm sorry, 20, 26. Look, yo, Dominique Wilkins day is my Barry Sanders day. I'm sure you look, look, Jelan.
- [35:50]
A
Yeah, but they didn't, they didn't tell Barry to leave.
- [35:54]
B
Yes, they did. Yes, they did. When you bring in Boss Ross and you bring in Scott Mitchell, replace him for Charlie Batch in the second round of next year. Yeah, you telling Barry to go. That's you quiet quick on your running back. You quiet quit on him. You told him to go.
- [36:13]
A
I'm just saying they didn't trade Barry Sanders for Lorenzo White. But anyway, let's just, let's just keep going.
- [36:18]
B
You got me pissed off. You done got me pissed off today.
- [36:21]
A
Well, you did it to me first, now let's go.
- [36:26]
B
My point, my point is I don't see the advantage of bringing in Jason Tatum and then telling him, hey, Tatum, you're only going to play 18 to 22 minutes this season. You think Jason Tatum, who likes being the number one option, wants to go on Jalen Brown's team and play 18 to 22 minutes and be a really good rebounder, a really good spot up shooter, a really good floor spacer. I think he could be good at that if he's 80%, but I think he's working really hard to come back and be Jason Tatum again. And I just don't know if the reward is worth the cost.
- [37:06]
A
Number one, shout out to Jaylen Brown. Remember when we said he couldn't dribble? He does not look like that guy anymore. Like Missoula is probably coach of the year just because if Jason Tatum is what we say Jason Tatum is, then it is absurd that they are as good as they are. And Jaylen Brown has been playing MVP caliber basketball where I guess he, he'll play enough games so he'll wind up getting it. But he has been excellent this year. It doesn't seem worth the risk to me to Plum. I don't know what their doctors see. I don't know what's going on. You know, I, I don't know any of those things, but it doesn't at all seem worth it to even try to do this, but it feels like they're going to. And if they do, you're right. It could get weird and it could get awkward because the idea of we're just going to turn Jason Tatum into seventh man who does seventh man. Things that doesn't. That doesn't seem to make any sense. The other thing is these guys are human beings. And we have. And you brought it up. We've treated this like Jason Tatum, at the very least, was 1A and brown was 1B. Right. Or you could put it almost like Jason Tatum 1.75, brown 1.25.
- [38:18]
B
Right, right, right.
- [38:19]
A
You know, we're 1 and 2 add up to 3. Maybe that was the case. Jayla Brown is like, I am a number one. And we see teams that have multiple number one options, rarely with as much skill overlap and the as these two guys have. You know, it had been one way for a long time. Now it looks like another way. How they figure that out will be really interesting if they make this decision that they're going to bring him back this year, which I would not.
- [38:49]
B
You think it's one way, it's the other way. That's. That's the kind. And here's the thing. Is Joe Missoula going to have that conversation with Jayson Tatum and tell him, hey, Jay, I know you've been working your ass off since you've had this injury, and you have the revenge in your mind of wanting to play the Knicks again and everything, because remember, the Celtics look like a juggernaut ready to repeat until they ran into the Knicks and blew those first two games and then blew, you know, blue game four or whatever it was, you know, that, that series. So he's got that in his mind. And you can't tell a player to not continue to rehab with the goal of getting back. You can't keep putting that battery in his back and saying, you know what, Jay, when you get back, we gonna be at full strength just to get him to continue to do that and then pull the rug out from under him and say, you know what, Jason, you can come back if you want to, but this ain't going to be what it was like. The mental part of that stuff, in addition to the mental part of how that team has become accustomed to playing without him. Right. It's similar template. They're going to shoot a lot of threes. They lean into all of that, and then they're giving the ball to Jaylen Brown and saying, jaylen Brown, take us home. Now, that shifts a little bit, and you have to recalibrate yourself. And I don't think in this Eastern Conference, Bo, you have the time to be able to mess around in the first round of a playoff series, even if they get the second seed Right. If they get the second seed, what happens if they're playing Philadelphia in the first round or the third seed and they're playing Philly in the first round and Embiid is reasonably healthy and Paul George is back and you got Maxi and Edgecombe. You don't have the space to give somebody else the grace to work themselves into it because you gonna be in a dog fight.
- [40:43]
A
Right. Look, it's some wild stakes in the east when you think about this. Right. If I were the Sixers, I would assume that this is the last healthy Embiid year that you're going to have, if this even is a healthy Embiid year. Right.
- [40:58]
B
Yeah. Yeah.
- [40:58]
A
Let's start there. The Pistons, you raise an interesting point. They're on top, but they've never won a playoff series. Like, they actually have like the. The widest berth, I think that we would say the longest Runway. Almost easier to give themselves a certain measure of grace. Right, right. If they don't get it done. But okay, then you got the Celtics, who apparently think this is important enough to bring Jason Tatum back. Okay. The Cavs who made this James Harden trade. That. All I know is that the last game of the year, James Harden is going to be terrible, but in the meantime, they're going to be pretty good. Right. And so like. But you know what their stakes are by the fact that they made the decision to do that. And then there's the Knicks, who got to the conference finals last year, fired their coach, hired a good one. But I think I feel like the things that are shaky about the Knicks this year would have been shaky no matter who the coach was. Right. It's the, the honeymoon year for Towns had passed and now people are looking around and realizing what we tried to tell them, that the things that. The things about him that are not to like are things that they particularly were really not going to like. And now you're starting to hear the people talk about this. They talk about the offensive fouls more. They talk about, you know, his absent mindedness on defense. All those things that, by the way, were also happening last year. They just hadn't gotten sick of that yet. And now it's here. Like Mike Brown, who I think is a much better coach than he ever gets credit for. He's coaching for his job, Right?
- [42:31]
B
That's a great question.
- [42:34]
A
I mean, they fired. I mean, you and I talk about this all the time. They fired Tibo largely because they wanted to, but also because they thought they should have gone to the Finals.
- [42:40]
B
Yeah, yeah. I Still think they would have fired Tibo? Even they went to the Finals, it would have been a harder sell.
- [42:45]
A
But, but, but, but that's still a part. I agree. Like I said, what? Because they wanted to. But I hear more. There's more chatter and more complaining about Mike Brown this year than we had ever heard about Thibodeau in all those years.
- [42:59]
B
And the crazy thing is, you know, it is because now we've mythologized Thibodeau to the point where even Stephen A. Said it the other day when I was on first take. And I just didn't have the opportunity to correct him when he said, well, you know, defensively, the Knicks were better on the Thibodeau. No, they weren't. Like, this has been, profile wise, a very similar team. They're better offensively, they're better. A better three point shooting team, which could wind up being a great equalizer when all this is said and done. But they haven't been like, Tibbs hasn't coached like a top 10 defense in a long time. And so much of that you could attribute to personnel. But to your point about Carl Townsend.
- [43:35]
A
Yeah, but hold on right fast on that.
- [43:36]
B
Yeah.
- [43:37]
A
He is not as consistent a basketball personality as people want to say. Even when you go back to the Bulls, there were some years the offense was great and the defense was bad. Some years the defense was great and the offense was bad. He's not. It's not as simple as just, you get tips, you're going to get defense and no offense.
- [43:53]
B
No, don't. The only thing you're going to get is tips. Going to play his dudes. That's it. Tips. Going to play his six. And the best offensive player is going to get a lot of shots and a lot of usage and you're going to build your offense around the skills of that number one guy. As opposed to here is my very rigid offensive philosophy. That's the one thing I will always give, tips. Offensively, he is not going to be out here like, hey, man, we gotta, we gotta run, jump and shoot threes. He's like, okay, best offensive player, what do you do best? All right, cool. We gonna do that. Like, that's what I'll give him. With Towns, it's important to remember, y', all, he found out about the Giannis stuff just like we did. And they can do math. They know for Giannis to come here, I gots to go, oh, or somebody gots to go who make a lot of money. Add to the fact that Karl did not get his extension before the start of the season. Why you think that is? Why or why do you think Carl thinks that is? Oh, so they don't want to have my long term money on the books just in case they go and get try to get Giannis this offseason. That's a human emotion that I don't think that we necessarily calculate and add to the fact you're playing in New York City where you are never going to get the grace that Jaylen Brown gets. Jalen Brown can be a traffic cone on defense. Jalen Brown can be Jalen Brunson. Excuse me, can be terrible on defense. And we will never say the same things about him that we say about Carl Towns. The New York knicks are the 1 team this season. I want people to hear this when I say this. The New York knicks are the 1 team in the NBA that has to get to the NBA finals this year. Not even Oklahoma City has to get to the NBA. Oklahoma City get knocked out in the second round and we can come up with reasons why that happened. The New York Knicks get knocked down in the second round. There will be pitchforks on 33rd and 8th, right? Pitchforks. I tell you, you lose to James Harden and Cleveland, you lose to those dudes, you got a problem. If you get pumped by Detroit, you got a bigger problem. You lose to Joel, emb seed and and the mismatched 76ers problem, you lose to the Celtics with the island, the misfit toys, Jason Tatum and Jalen Brown, you've got problems. They have to get, they are built to get to the NBA finals. But Bo, when's the last time you saw saw a team depending on one rim protector who is injury prone, not really good point of attack, defense and secondary scoring, that can be shaky because you got a bunch of guys doing things that they shouldn't be doing because Jalen Brunson controls so much of the offense. They got a lot. They are built to do it. But they have so many more questions. More questions than any other team. Like I think Detroit. The questions are simple. Do you have experience and you don't have a secondary scorer next to Cade Cunningham who can get his own shot? If Detroit doesn't get there, you can reasonably deduct, okay, they'll be fine because they're going to be here year after year. They've got the youth, they've got the cap space, they can make some flexibility moves. They can get a second guy to see where they go from there. The Knicks don't have those questions that they can improve. Other than, man, we better hope Giannis decides to come here, not somewhere else.
- [47:09]
A
Yeah. And look, their two best play. You mentioned their two best players can't guard. And they can't guard at the two most important places to be able to guard up top at the rim.
- [47:23]
B
And then you put Mikel Bridges up there, you put Mikael Bridges at the point of attack, and that ain't that much better.
- [47:31]
A
Yeah, yeah, they are. And that's wild to say though. Cause that's an all defense guy. Not that long ago.
- [47:38]
B
I think sometimes reputations do a lot and. Or I will say this. When you go from being an all defense guy to being a scorer, it's really tough to going back to being that all defense guy. It's really, really tough to start knuckling down and doing those little things when you see what gets you paid.
- [47:58]
A
Now. You're right. I also will say this about the Knicks. I'm sure they can tell. But much like the Oklahoma City Thunder, hope you really understand how much those other guys hate you. And in this case, those other guys are the Detroit Pistons. They hate them.
- [48:13]
B
The best thing that happened to the Detroit Pistons was losing three games on their home floor last year. One that they gave away, one that they felt was snatched from them, and another one that they kind of just blew, right? So now they're looking at the Knicks like, why everybody so high on y'?
- [48:29]
A
All?
- [48:29]
B
Y' all ain't live. And what's the. And what's the argument against that? When the last time we saw the Knicks in the Pistons play, they didn't have Jalen Duran and they still whooped on him by 37. And Asar Thompson, who is apparently the worst twin, but might be the best defensive player in the league, locked up Jalen Brunson to the tune of 4 for 20. He made Jalen Brunson go a full starks on a Monday afternoon like this is this. I'm salivating for the potential of a Detroit Knicks playoff series while also recognizing my personal life will be made hell because everybody will think, man, you just rooting for Detroit cause you from there. Never mind that when I was living in Detroit, people said, man, you hate the Pistons, man, why you bagging on them so much?
- [49:19]
A
I hate everybody body you do, except Isaiah. You don't hate Isaiah.
- [49:25]
B
No, I don't. That's my guy.
- [49:27]
A
Tell you, man, y' all different about that. My man Lester Spence. I think Spence still working at Johns Hopkins. The first time I met Spence, I was talking something about the Greatest point guys of all time. And he just look. I don't even think he looked at me. What he wrote Detroit, what about Isaiah? Like, y' all demand to know about Isaiah?
- [49:45]
B
Cause it's this school of people who think that he belongs in this hodgepodge of John Stockton and Gary. Gary Payton and Jason Kidd and, you know, all. All not saying they ain't great players, but all those dudes or Chris Paul, as opposed to, hey, man, his only peer is that six, nine dude. Yeah, that's it.
- [50:09]
A
Y' all still funny.
- [50:12]
B
Y' all still.
- [50:12]
A
Y' all still, like, you know what he is? He's Barry. He's Yallsbury Bonds. I hear that everybody else hates him. Oh, well, not us.
- [50:21]
B
But see, there's an acknowledgment, though, that Barry Bonds might be the greatest hitter we've ever seen. Right? Like, you can make all the arguments against Bonds for whatever the reasons are, but people will still say, you know, before he ever did anything, he was 40. 40, and he won MVP three times. Like, there's still that acknowledgment for people who don't give Zeke his propers. It's not even the acknowledgment. Well, you know, he did beat Mike Bird and Magic. They don't even say that. They. They say it like it's a postscript. They say it like it don't mean. So when you say that winning matters, and all you go to is, man, well, Zeke Petty. Well, wait, Magic Petty, Michael King Petty.
- [51:00]
A
Yes, he is.
- [51:00]
B
Y' all love the Petty, but when Zeke is ruthless, all of a sudden it's a problem. Nah, man, we ain't taking that hypocrisy. I will not take that hypocrisy. I think people should be quiet.
- [51:12]
A
Detroit versus everybody. How did you get me there?
- [51:17]
B
How did you get me going full. That one dude in that interview with Mike Wallace when he told him to be quiet.
- [51:25]
A
Yeah. Yeah, man, you sound like the new Bruce Bowen. Like, I always knew you was gonna get back to that. It never fails. It never fails. Check my man out at espn covering the NBA, brother. I appreciate you all.
- [51:36]
B
Love, bro. Appreciate you, man.
- [51:37]
A
All right, man. Ladies and gentlemen, thanks so much for joining us here on the Right Time. We do this four times a week. Ryan Brumley handling everything behind the scenes. Thank you, sir. Hit the voicemail line. 323-59-67767. Remember, follow the Right time. Subscribe like, rate us, review us, give us five stars. You only give us four stars. I'm inclined to believe you are a hater. We'll talk to you guys in a couple of days. Take it easy.