What The Michael Jackson movie gets Wrong about Michael Jackson | 05.12

Summary

The Right Time with Bomani Jones

Episode: What The Michael Jackson Movie gets Wrong about Michael Jackson (05.12)

Release Date: May 12, 2026
Host: Bomani Jones
Guest: DJ Wally Sparks

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Episode Overview

Bomani Jones and guest DJ Wally Sparks dive deep into the new Michael Jackson biopic, exploring what the film gets right and wrong about Jackson’s life and legacy. The conversation sprawls from MJ’s enduring appeal to the generational differences in his fanbase, symbolism in his art, the complexities of his relationship with his father Joe Jackson, and the challenges of making a truly honest biopic when family and business interests are so intertwined.

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Key Discussion Points

1. Michael Jackson’s Multi-Generational, Universal Appeal

[02:11 – 08:52]

• Bomani and Wally discuss the unique way Michael Jackson’s music continues to engage new generations of children.
• MJ’s catalog is “a lot more kid friendly” than peers like Prince, making him an easier artist to pass down.

  "Like 4 year olds, 5 year olds see Michael Jackson and instantly get it. It's been like this forever, right? Like he's your 5 year old's favorite in a way that Prince never could be." — Bomani Jones [03:30]

• Wally credits MJ's “childlike spirit,” noting children just innately understand his music (and dance).
• The impact of video games ("Michael Jackson Experience," "Moonwalker") as cultural bridges to younger fans.

2. Michael Jackson’s Dance Genius & Showmanship

[09:10 – 12:24]

• Bomani admits he’s less interested in dance, but recognizes MJ’s “paradigmatic elevation over James Brown.”

  “Mike was doing dance stuff where like, yo, what is that? I don’t think I’ve seen anybody do this thing before.” — Bomani Jones [10:05]

• Wally explains that MJ’s dancing was fluid, innate, and has never been truly duplicated—even today’s top dancers trace MJ’s moves back to his childhood performances.

  “It was in him, it wasn’t on him… Everybody wanted to dance like Mike and probably still do now.” — DJ Wally Sparks [11:51]

3. The Ego-Dissolving Power of Michael Jackson

[12:24 – 14:09]

• Bomani draws a unique parallel between MJ and “psilocybin,” arguing that Jackson’s presence dissolved egos, impressing even hardened legends.
• Stars like James Brown, Stevie Wonder, and even Prince revered MJ, never showing jealousy or resistance to his impact.
• A hilarious breakdown of the James Brown birthday party, where MJ masterfully orchestrated a moment to humble Prince.

4. The Movie’s Approach: “Preaching to the Choir”

[16:23 – 17:36]

• Both agree the film presumes the audience already knows MJ’s significance, offering little in terms of new revelation or character development.
• The movie feels like “rallying the troops,” meant for fans rather than newcomers.

  “It was done for people who understood what Michael Jackson was… locking in and like it felt like it was rallying the troops on the legend of Michael Jackson.” — Bomani Jones [17:17]

• Wally: “If you’re a Michael Jackson fan, you’re not going to learn anything new.” [17:40]

5. Complicated Portrayal of Joe Jackson

[19:00 – 27:10]

• An extended debate unfolds over whether the film is a Joe Jackson “image sanitation project.”
  • Wally sees nuance and a rare attempt to humanize Joe, showing his desperation to elevate his family out of poverty.
  • Bomani disagrees, feeling Joe is rendered as an unredeemable villain, lacking the warmth of previous portrayals (e.g., the '92 miniseries "An American Dream").
• They discuss Joe’s tunnel-vision on the Jacksons as a group, and his seeming inability to recognize MJ’s solo potential—even when it was glaringly obvious.

6. MJ’s Transition to Adulthood & Independence

[29:32 – 35:06]

• Bomani notes how striking it is that MJ was still living at home during the Thriller era.
• Extended riff on MJ firing Joe Jackson as manager—by fax, without a face-to-face—while still living under Joe’s roof.

  “You just don’t do… live in their house, bro.” — DJ Wally Sparks [34:25]

• Wally reflects on MJ’s childlike inability to fully break away, and the continued, sometimes tense, family entanglements.

7. The Biopic’s Musical Choices & Missed Opportunities

[36:16 – 46:49]

• Discussion of how the movie covers big musical numbers (“Beat It,” Thriller), but often without emotionally satisfying buildup or payoff.
• Notable omission: “We Are The World.”

  “Regardless of how you feel about the song We Are the World, that is the—that’s the biggest record he ever did… That is the height of Michael Jackson is the idea of We Are the World.” — Bomani Jones [39:04]

• The movie closes with a Bad musical number, which the hosts feel is a weak way to end narratively—instead of “Man in the Mirror,” which would’ve thematically tied up MJ’s journey to self-realization.

8. The “Peak Michael-ness” Debate

[43:00 – 45:40]

• They analyze the Bad era, with Wally arguing that it marks MJ operating at his artistic “peak of Michael-ness” despite not being as musically cold as Thriller or Off the Wall.
• Bomani: Although Bad was huge and composed almost entirely by MJ, it sometimes sounds dated due to the fast pace of the ‘80s music scene.

9. Michael’s Timeless (and Weird) Legacy

[47:19 – 51:48]

• Reflections on the enduring impact of MJ—even through reputation-damaging scandals and eccentricities.
• Discussion of generational differences: can modern superstars like Taylor Swift ever truly reach MJ-level fame?
• They point out MJ’s unmatched level of weirdness—and the way society, by and large, just rolled with it.

  “Mike’s weird is a whole nother world of weird. I literally hang out with children. Those are my homies.” — Bomani Jones [51:01]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Michael’s appeal with children:

  "Kids could jam to it, you know." — DJ Wally Sparks [04:08]

• On his impact as a performer:

  “Mike was like a paradigmatic elevation over James Brown.” — Bomani Jones [09:44]

• On dissolving ego:

  “Michael Jackson had the ability to dissolve the ego of everybody in his presence.” — Bomani Jones [12:24]

• On Joe Jackson:

  “I just left that film thinking like, I know what you did was wrong, but you still succeeded, you know?” — DJ Wally Sparks [24:05]

• On the biopic’s narrative:

  "I've never seen anybody make their hero, passive aggressor and a little bit like a sucker like this movie did with Michael Jackson, man.” — Bomani Jones [48:52]

• On the upcoming challenges for MJ's nephew (Jafaar Jackson):

  “I don't know if you realize what you signed up for, man. You finna be Mike forever.” — DJ Wally Sparks [52:41]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [02:11] – Michael Jackson’s kid appeal and generational reach
• [09:44] – Analyzing MJ’s dance and physical genius
• [14:09] – How MJ dissolved egos (James Brown, Prince)
• [16:23] – Discussion on the biopic “preaching to the choir”
• [19:00] – The Joe Jackson debate
• [29:32] – MJ’s (in)ability to break away from his family
• [36:16] – Critique of musical numbers in the biopic; omission of “We Are The World”
• [43:00] – “Peak Michael-ness” and critique of Bad
• [47:19] – Reflecting on MJ’s global and intergenerational impact posthumously

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Tone, Flow, and Takeaways

The episode is energetic, conversational, and full of both affection and unfiltered critique. Bomani and Wally maintain the original’s sharp, observational humor and frankness, delving into Michael Jackson’s singular stardom, the myth-making of celebrity biopics, and the challenges of portraying deeply complicated family dynamics and personal struggles honestly on screen.

Final Takeaway:
The Michael Jackson biopic succeeds as a fan’s nostalgia trip but sidesteps hard truths and is hamstrung by estate involvement—never quite capturing what made MJ's story so perplexing and unique. The movie is more celebration than revelation, and as with Jackson himself, the mystery (and controversy) remains.

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Transcript

[A]

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[A]

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Right Time, A Wave original. My name is Bomani Jones. Thanks for listening wherever you get your podcast. Thanks for watching us on YouTube. Subscribe like, rate us, review us, give us five stars. You only give us four stars. I'm inclined to believe you are a hater. It is Time Machine Tuesday. I got my man DJ Wally Sparks on the mic with me and long and short, man, I went and saw that Michael Jackson movie. And I know that, you know, it ain't the, the hot talker that he was when it first came out, but you know me, I like to kind of let these things settle, settle down and let people get, get, get, you know, get a hold of their cells right before we actually talk about what's going on with that movie, brother. Like, I saw somebody on the train a couple Sundays ago. He had on the white shirt and the sparkly jacket and the hat, and I think he was going to see the Michael Jackson movie. It's New York City. He might have just come back from church. There ain't no way of knowing, man.

[C]

Never know, right?

[A]

People was charged up and ready to go see that Michael Jackson movie.

[C]

Yeah, man, Michael Mania was in full effect for like, you know, A good, say, 20 days, you know what I mean? And I mean, it was like back in full effect, you know, it was I, I saw, you know, children who weren't even thought of right by the time when Michael Jackson was Michael Jackson being, you know, cosplaying as him with their parents and not just cosplaying Right. Because it's one thing for your parents just to put you in a Michael Jackson jacket and throw a little, you know, sparkle glove on your hand, right? It's a whole nother thing. When you are under 10 years old in 2026 and you know, the entire choreographer in the rock with you video, that's a whole nother thing. You know what I mean?

[A]

So that is an interesting point because I think the movie itself we could get to, you know, we like to do a little build up before we get there. But a thing that dawned on me in watching that, right? And at first I wanted to do the show my buddy Shannon, because Shannon and them, they bought that mic life, right? Like, I don't, I've seen it in the house, I've witnessed it in a different way. But one thing that being around him and his family and the relationship with Michael Jackson, it hit me that. And look, I'm a Prince guy. We've talked about this. No need to like belabor the point. But a major difference between Prince and Michael Jackson is in terms of musically, that Michael Jackson catalog is a lot more kid friendly. And without getting into, you know what I'm saying, there's something about Michael Jackson that's always been like really kid friendly. Like, like 4 year olds, 5 year olds see Michael Jackson and instantly get it. It's been like this forever, right? Like he's your 5 year old's favorite in a way that Prince never could be. Right. I don't have the greatest explanation for why it is, but it is a lot easier to like the passing of Michael Jackson down to kids. It is a much easier adoption process than just about anybody I could think of.

[C]

My, my, my take on that is that I believe that kids, or children rather, can recognize that Mike has a childlike spirit. And I think that's why they connect with him in the way that they do. Because, you know, look, man, my son's 14 years old now, but one of the first music things that we introduced to him was Michael Jackson and he got it, you know what I'm saying? It was almost like we didn't have to explain it and he could, you know, once we told him who it was, he kind of recognized who it was and he recognized the music. And I think Mike's childlike essence, even in the music. Cause even with the music being as accessible to children as it was, it was still like some really grown up things going on in what he was writing, right? Yes, some real grown up stuff. Like all the things that adults do you know what I'm saying? You know, everything we deal with was in his music. But also, you know, kids could jam to it, you know.

[A]

Yeah. And you could play it in front of them. It's an important note, 100%. Like there is, there is no sister or jack you off in the Michael Jackson catalog.

[C]

There's no head on Thriller.

[A]

No. Like you could do that. But I was. And I think that's an interesting part the movie is a reminder of. Because you and I, you're a little bit older than me, but we're roughly the same age.

[C]

Right.

[A]

But I think our age difference is just subtle enough that I don't really have real time Thriller Mania memories. Oh, I do at all. Like, like my memories of him are with Thriller being established. But my first memories. But here's the thing though. My first memories of life are not in the United States. They are actually in Nigeria.

[C]

Really?

[A]

Okay, buddy. It was a thing.

[C]

Like many was a thing.

[A]

That's the other thing. Like I talked to my Spanish teacher about that and she's like, hey, you know, she, I find that she doesn't know that much about black American music or just generally speaking music in English, but she's like, Michael Jackson is. Michael Jackson is a completely different situation. Like there's something about him that cuts through all the noise no matter where you are. Like watching that concert for Romania in 92, for example, where all the people are passing out and they are literally passing people through the crowd in wheelchairs. Right. Like, like, just like the, the, the, the reactions and everything else. There is something about him I've never heard anybody say, you know, and then I listen to a little bit more Michael Jackson, it's like, oh, I get it now. No, no, no, no, no.

[C]

Get it immediately.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Whatever level of getting it, you're going to have, right. It jumps off the screen and it's jumped off the screen since he. Right. And I think that, I think another part of the fact that it goes so down, it goes down so easy to children. Also, is this started off not so much as children's music because I mean, look, that first Jackson 5 album got a Funkadelic cover on it, I'll bet you. Is it like they were, they were doing grown ass music?

[C]

Grown up music. Yeah.

[A]

But it was still very clear that this was a child. Right. And, and I think you're right that the spirit that came through with it. But I also wonder, and I just haven't read as much about Mike as others. But in terms of Production and everything else. And maybe it's just his, like, you say, the spirit of it. That sensibility comes through at every point. And so with Mike, Mike goes down to generations differently than literally every other artist that I could think of. Like, I don't ever hear anybody talk about, like, any young person talk about Mike and be like, man, y' all just old. Nope, nope. They right there with it. And I think also that that video game, that Michael Jackson experience, I think is a big part in porting him down to another generation.

[C]

Yeah, I mean, I remember that game. I don't remember as much, but I do remember the game on the Sega Genesis, the Moonwalker game.

[A]

Right.

[C]

That was that. I know. I know. Back then. Cause that was. Cause that game was based on the Smooth Criminal video.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

And I know that game introduced a lot of people that were my age that weren't really into Michael Jackson. The few people that thought Michael Jackson was like, what? You know, what is that? They play that game and they be like, okay, I kind of get this now. You know what I mean? Like, the introduction to him was in a completely different way than it was musically, but the connection remained the same, you know?

[A]

Yeah. I also think that, look, I don't really care. Maybe this is just because it ain't nothing I do, but I don't really care about all that dancing, man. Like, so. That's so. So. But just that's. That's not just him. That's just. For me, generally speaking, I'm in the music for the music.

[C]

Right, Right.

[A]

But it's not that I can't. It's not that I can't recognize who's cold at it or I can't recognize like. Like that. Just. That's just not what I come to the party for. Right. It is interesting to me because you have kind of that James Brown, Jackie Wilson type of, like, super athletic, sweaty, showman sort of dancing, you know, like, it's a very particular archetype that Prince is subscribes to much more in a very clear way. Right. Like the doing the splits up and down and everything else. Like that Mr. Dynamite type thing.

[C]

Right.

[A]

Prince, to me, was like, what if you take James Brown, but James Brown can play all the instruments? Mike was like a paradigmatic elevation over James Brown. Right. It's the same spirit, it's the same idea. But Mike was doing dance stuff where like, yo, what is that? I don't think I've seen anybody do, do, do this thing before. Yeah.

[C]

I've never seen that move before.

[A]

And Again, in a way that I feel like, translates, like, very clearly through screen. Cause Mike's mastery of television, I think, is another part of this. Right. But like, Mike doing what was the backslide and calling it the moonwalker, everything else, hey, man, that's a lot different than what James and Prince or anybody else was out there doing. Right. Like the. The robot and all these other things, it's. It's jumped out in a way, I think, that made him much more singular than any of anybody else. Right. Like, people talk about the Chris Browns as good a dance as Michael Jackson. Maybe, maybe not. It don't matter because he ain't Michael Jackson. We talk about something completely different here.

[C]

Yeah, the thing with Mike, as far as Mike the dancer goes, like, even back, you know, to the James Browns and the Jackie Wilsons, as you pointed out, who are great influences on Mike, who he also credits as great influences. They did it because they wanted to make it a part of this show. Mike just did it. You know what I'm saying? It was like a. It was a naturally fluid thing to him. Like, yes, I'm emulating my favorites, but I'm also just doing whatever comes in, whatever my body tells me to do at whatever given moment. And it just, it. It looked like nothing that we'd ever seen at the time. And. And no one's been able to replicate it. Matter of fact, matter of fact, even today, people that you recognize, stars that we recognize as very good dancers, the ushers, the Chris Browns of the world, they all. All of them are still doing moves that Mike did when he was a kid. Yeah. You know, that. That. That speaks to the. The level of physical genius that. That often gets overlooked when it comes to Michael Jackson as. As, you know, in totality. You know, like, he was just doing things that no one else would even think to do or probably could or probably could do because it was just in him, you know. You know how old black folks talk, man. It wasn't, you know, it was in him. It wasn't on him. You know what I'm saying? That's Michael Jackson with those dances, man. Like, everyone. Everybody wanted to dance like Mike and probably still do. Now.

[A]

This is my other general Michael Jackson observation. Michael Jackson is like a real life. Like, he was like 5 foot 9 or 5 foot 10 of psilocybin. And this is what I mean. Michael Jackson had the ability to dissolve the ego of everybody in his presence. Right. Like, I was talking to my buddy about this, and it was the idea that both of us had considered Ourselves to be people who were like, yo, yo, just hard to impress me, right? Like I'm a tough person to impress, so forth and so on. And that is ego, right? Like that is the verbalization of ego. It is the idea that you are somehow above these things and it cannot impress you because either because you've seen X, Y and Z, or because you are capable of whatever the thing is, right? And so therefore you cannot be impressed. That is how ego talks, right? And so I had gotten to thinking about that where I was like, I really considered in my life the idea that hey man, anybody that can do anything I can't do has to be impressive in some form or fashion, right? Like they like, it doesn't have to be anything big, but there's, there's nothing dope about swearing that nobody can impress you because then you never get the joy of being impressed, right? Like you never get that feeling that comes when you see something, you're like, damn, that's something else, right? All because you are subscribing to the idea of your own greatness, right? Or your, your, your impermeability. Okay, James Brown bow down before Michael Jackson, right? All the stars that came previous to Mike, all those guys that were older, rather be Stevie Wonder, anybody else, none of them was hating on Mike.

[C]

Even Prince, like he won.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, even Prince. Where there was obviously a rivalry and people like to talk it down now. No, no, no, there was a thing, there was a rivalry. But after Mike died, Prince put don't stop till you get enough in the set, right? Prince was not in a place where he did not recognize. And I bet you unless Prince, and it's possible he was just that kind of 11 year old prince was looking at the Jackson 5 and everything else too, right? But when you watch those concerts of Mike, nobody got people passing out just at the sight of them, right? Nobody could go stand there at the super bowl for two minutes just standing there before they take your sunglasses off and not move. Like, he breaks down. Everybody that swear. Nah, dog, that ain't, you know, you can't break me. No, he broke everybody, right? Whether his music is your favorite or not, you can't change the reality of the effect that he had on the people who came around him. And again the legends that came around him, right? Like that crazy scene at that James Brown birthday party. And this is how everybody, everybody who downplays the idea that this is a real rivalry is crazy, right? James Brown had a birthday party, right? And so Mike comes up on stage and Mike you know, James calls for Mike on stage. So Mike's downstage, he does his thing or whatever. But I think the thing that people don't realize is Mike wanted James to call Prince on stage. That was Mike's idea so specifically because Mike wanted to embarrass him and it worked. Prince got up there, did not know what in the world to do with himself in that moment. And this is Prince post 1999. Right. So he has not become the purple range star, but he is still a really big deal. But the truth was James and Mike were in the crew. Prince was not in the crew, which is to say 40 damn near 50 year old James Brown had welcomed Mike into the crew and Prince was still the upstart. That's how cold Michael Jackson was.

[C]

This seems like all time great showman rookie Hazen is what that seems like. Yes, you know what I mean?

[A]

Mike wanted everybody to know cause this is post thriller. Mike, Mike has done thriller. Think about this. Prince puts out 1999. 1999 is a really big deal. But then there was thriller. Right. But the idea that that level of star already saw Mike based on what he did when he was a child as being on their level. Right. And that gets us to this weird ass movie. I don't know if other people found it to be weird. I'll get into why it is that I found it to be weird. But I'm curious what you thought about this part of it which was to me this movie was preaching to the choir. And when I say it was preaching to the choir, I mean that they don't even really give you a lot of background information. Like you got to walk into the theater understanding that Michael Jackson is the biggest deal in the world and even understanding to a degree some of the childhood stuff or anything else. There was not a building action of Michael Jackson. It was done for people who understood what Michael Jackson was like. It felt like as all these biopics that are done by these estates are, it was locking in and like it felt like it was rallying the troops on the legend of Michael Jackson.

[C]

So I think it was that. And I had a friend who's a really, really big Michael Jackson fan and they hadn't seen the movie yet and they asked me what I thought about it. I was like, look, I enjoyed the film for the most part but if you're a Michael Jackson fan, you're not going to learn anything new. Everything, everything that you already know about Michael Jackson is what's going to be seen on film. But there are like some small anecdotes and things that are interesting to say the least. Also kind of strange and weird, but you're not going to come away from it learning anything that you didn't already know about Mike. If you a Michael Jackson fan, you're going to enjoy it because as a fan, all the. All the things that you felt when you first heard these records for the first time, especially if you live through the, you know, from the off the wall through the bad era, which is pretty much what's covered in the film. If you live through any of that, all the feelings that you felt about the music, you're going to get. You're going to get those same nostalgic feelings again. And it's going to be. It's going to be an enjoyable ride. The other thing I think this film was that people are kind of glossing over that. It seemed to me, to me, it seemed like a Joe Jackson image sanitation project also.

[A]

Oh, interesting, because I saw the opposite.

[C]

Do you think the opposite?

[A]

No, I want to hear what you said.

[C]

I think the way Joe's portrayed is that typically when we see a Joe Jackson portrayal, it's always, you know, belt the ass, basically. You know what I mean? Here's it's really hard line, dictator, father, I beat up all my kids, whatever. In this particular film, they don't shy away from that, right? But they also paid Joe in a life like, look, man, look, I come from parents who were probably either slaves or sharecroppers, and I know how these people work. And I am not going to let that happen to my children by any means necessary. And if that means that I have to discipline my children in a way that they feel like is a little too harsh, then so be it. But the reason I'm doing this is because I am trying to get me and my 10 children, or nine children, rather, out of Gary, Indiana, and into a better life, which is what ultimately he accomplished, you know, So I think, and I think Colman Domingo was probably the best actor in the film. I think he played a really good Joe Jackson. And I think the nuance that he brought to his performance was also, you know, part and parcel of why I think this was sort of a way to humanize Joe in a way that we probably hadn't seen in any kind of media before.

[A]

Okay, so this is what I thought. I thought that the Jackson's An American dream miniseries from 1992. Remember miniseries? But like, and for those who were not around for when that miniseries came out, boy, that had The Streets on

[C]

Lock miniseries is called BINGE Watching in 2026 is what it's called now.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, but that was that, that, that, that miniseries. We was ready for it. And I thought that that miniseries presented Joe as you described from this movie. Right. Like the main character of that miniseries is Joe Jackson, right? Like he is the centerpiece.

[C]

Because argue Joe might be the main character this, this Michael movie too.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I see. No, I don't think so. Like, like, like, like. So the thing about the docu series was is it starts with Joe and I thought it presented Joe much more warmly. Right. It presented Joe before. Like it presented Joe as a man who was in love with his wife, which this movie absolutely does not present him as at any point whatsoever. I felt as though Joe was a villain from the very beginning with some moments where he lashes out and is like, we got to get out of here. You know, we gonna get them out of this, you know, out of this situation or whatever it is. But I felt like. And I guess that docu series also had more time because I think the story of the brothers up until 1979 or 1983 or whatever is much more interesting than just the simple story of Michael Jackson. I thought the movie also presented the violence as only going toward Mike. There ain't nothing about Joe beating the rest of them boys where that docu series has got him beating Tito because he messed with the guitar and he had to, you know, he had to come out here and play and show. Show his metal in that moment or everything else. I felt, and I'm going to tie this back, that there's a scene in the movie where Mike is trying to get them to get off the wall going or whatever. And John Branca sit steps up with his ideas and John Branca becomes the guy who handles Michael Jackson's career. You will be very surprised to learn that when the credits run and they show executive producers, John Branca is right there. Right? Just like all these Jackson kids are listed as executive producers in the documentary. And it reminded me of Straight Outta Compton, where Straight Outta Compton had all those ha. All those cooks, Right. And so you wind up with stuff like Easy E's wife just throwing a lot in there with, well, don't forget I have a degree and I worked in the music industry too. Yeah. Because she had executive producer on this movie and she needs y' all to know that she did that thing, you know who's not an executive producer on this Michael Jackson movie? Dead ass Joe Jackson. That's who's not an executive producer in this movie. And so I felt like, at least through this part of the movie, they presented Joe as a full on monster. And to be clear, his kids are in on this. Right. And so it is possible that he is in fact the monster totally across the board that I felt like they presented him to be. But I did not come away from that thinking, wow, they were being really kind to Joe. That wasn't how it felt to me.

[C]

I mean, maybe not so much as kind, as much as more of. I came away with it saying, like, just think about the type of man Joe Jackson was and the time that he had to, you know, raise and rear all of his children and, and, and the path that he chose for them, which was being musicians. Yeah. And the difficulty would be to, to get that sort of act to, to be that sort of act. And you know, sure, they were his children, but you know, he had to be a, you know, he had to be a great talent. I mean, not necessarily because Mike, once you start singing, you kind of know that, you know, this is a unique one on one. But, but yeah, man, like I just, I just thought, I just thought like when I left that film, I don't know why, but some, something in me felt a little bit more empathetic for Joe than I had in the past. Not sure because they did everything you said. They didn't shy away from him being the, the violent person that we've all known him to have been to his children and to everyone that he was supposed to love. But I just left that film thinking like, I know what you did was wrong, but you still succeeded, you know?

[A]

Yeah, see, I thought what they didn't to me. And look, there's only so much time that you have in these things, right? Yeah, but I think the part that they didn't sell that again, that I thought that TV miniseries sold better, was the fact that Joe was a frustrated musician himself and that these kids were, these kids were chasing his dream. The other part that I felt was subtly in place, but I don't think, I don't think they were, I don't think they did Joe any favors in this regard. Was that what. I find it fascinating that Joe never thought of Michael Jackson as a solo act. Right. Like he, he never thought of any of those kids as a solo act is crazy. Like, that's how, you know, he wasn't just in it for the money because that's like he saw himself as being responsible for all these boys. And his thing was, hey, Mike, if you don't tour your brothers, what are they going to do? Now, it should not have been obviously Michael Jackson's responsibility to deal with for these boys or anything else, but Joe seemed to feel a responsibility. He saw the family as this unit. And he never saw Mike as being somebody that could be separate. Which again, is kind of crazy because, like, he wasn't even viewing it. Like, the idea off the wall, Mike could do whatever he wants off the clock. Keeping in mind. And look, look, this other thing too with me and this Michael Jackson thing is I don't give a damn about none of these other Jacksons. Like, other than Janet, who got her own situation. Like, when people got their feelings about these individual Jacksons, I'm like, what the fuck is wrong with. What are you talking about? Right? But the Jacksons as an act, part of why they left Motown is that Barry Gordy thought they was out of juice. Like, they were as a unit. It was obvious what the future was. And Joe was like, nope, nope, nope. Like, the fact that Joe did not try to transition into. I'mma be your manager to, into this other stuff, to me is very interesting. And the movie kind of presents that as such. It's like he, he's just trying to do something for all these other brothers who all inexplicably still live in this house.

[C]

I mean, that's, that's, that's parental intuition, man. You, you know, you know, when you got, you know, you got the one that's going to take us to the promised land and you got the, the other five of the. Or the four of the four or five that might not get us there. I mean, you know, you gotta think, you gotta. He, I guess he was thinking like a general manager in sports. Like, I got a star player that's gonna get me to where I need to go.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

But I also gotta, I gotta manage the rest of the team that I, that I know aren't going or can help me get to where I want to go. But yeah, no are interchangeable pieces. You know what I mean? So, yeah, I mean, you know, I guess, I guess that's the way I looked at it, the way he took his approach to. But that is a good point you raised. Like, you know, if, if, if he did choose to say, hey, look, Mike, we gonna go solo and I'm gonna lead you. I'm gonna lead you solo. And then you could just like, you know, piecemeal his brothers along or whatever, that would have been one thing. But for him to be like, Nah, you know you are part of the team and you can't ever leave the team. That's a whole nother thing.

[A]

All right, coming up next, we gonna talk some more about this damn Michael Jackson movie. You can predict the playoff action all the way to the finals with FanDuel predicts. All you have to do is sign up to get your $25 bonus. Follow all the playoff dishes, swishes, wishes and misses. Every move is a potential plot twist. Predict the spread, the total points and even the game winning moments that make the playoffs where one run, one rebound, one shot changes everything from opening tip to the final buzzer. Stay locked in with every pass, every play and every moment that moves us closer to crowning a champion. Sign up now for your $25 bonus on FanDuel Predicts. Offered by FanDuel Prediction Markets LLC, a registered Futures Commission merchant. 18 plus bonus is non withdrawable and expires 7 days after receipt trading. Derivatives involve significant risk and may not be suitable for all investors. Manage your activity with our consumer protection tools. Restrictions apply. See [e-mail] predicts/bonus hyphen Offer hyphen terms. This summer, serve up the cookout classics craft mayo and dressing.

[C]

Toss green salads with delicious ranch dressing or zesty Italian.

[A]

Serve smooth, craveably creamy potato salads with mayo. We all know it's not a cookout without Kraft. All right, we are back with DJ Wally Sparks talking about this Michael Jackson movie. I went back and listened to off the Wall the other day for the first time in a long time, right? Dude, off the Wall is so cold, bro. It's so good. It's so good. It's so cold. Like I think it's undersold. How. What a big deal. It was like when Thriller came out. The question was how? Like how you gonna be bigger than off the Wall? Like off the Wall was like the biggest album a black person had ever put out. It's also a Louis Johnson masterpiece, bro.

[C]

Get on the floor, the baseline. Oh, bro, bro.

[A]

Good gracious. Right? And so like we move out of the Jackson 5 stuff and again where I say I don't feel like they did a good job of building the magnitude, you know into into off the Wall. And we get there and that's the. Off the Wall is black people's Michael Jackson record, right? I know there are other are white people that also joined us in the how dope off the Wall was. But off the Wall is a very black people record it right? It's very well produced. Quincy had said that he was trying to get away from the bubblegum image that Michael Jackson had. It definitely did that while also staying in. In the pop lane. Right. But in the movie around this time, combining the other Joe Jackson stuff. Right. With this, it starts to begin around when they start talking about the plastic surgery. It's not very often that you see a hero in a movie being built up around, you know, being a little weak. Yeah, yeah, understandably, given some of the circumstances. Right. But in fact, weak is not the word I want to use yet. I'll get to that. I'll get to them. Perhaps weakness a little bit later. But it definitely. You are. You are too. You are supposed to pity him.

[C]

Like the way he talked about his nose. The greatest entertainer of all time. We supposed to feel bad for him.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Like. And by the way, you do feel bad for him when it happens. He never seems happy at any point through this, which I understand the argument that people have made that if one wants to view this cynically, it is inclined to set you up to feel bad for him for perhaps things that he may or may not do down the line in other parts of this movie that do come up. But it's a little interesting to watch a movie again, like you said, because I don't have a concept of Michael Jackson as being cool. He was a weirdo by the time I got around to, like, really knowing what was it. But he's the coolest dude that's out here. And he's, by the way, still living with his parents. I get that's. I gotta get back to this. I never. It didn't really dawn on me that this dude did Thriller and he's still living with his mom.

[C]

What that. Hey, man, that's. That. That childlike spirit, man. He. He didn't. He didn't know how to be an adult.

[A]

But Wally, they all still at the house. They way older than Mike. They out here hooping in the driveway with giraffes, walking around.

[C]

Yeah, that is. That is a very, very, very good point.

[A]

Oh, like. Like the idea that. That, like Joe and, like, I think it's around here where he fires Joe by facts. But you still live in the house. The.

[C]

The balls to do that while you and he go to his room.

[A]

Right, right. He go to his room and Joe is like, well, he actually big enough for me to fight him for real. And mama's like, nah, nah, nah, you can't. Like, no more. No more beating up Mike. But I gotta say, I would understood if you would've want to fight Mike under those circumstances, you know what I'm saying? Did you just fire me with the facts?

[C]

And you. And you. You under my roof.

[A]

Hold on, hold on, hold on. He hired new representation and told them, I need you to fire my dad for him. And they're like, sure, whatever. And they did it by fact. Cause they thought Joe was gonna whoop they asses, too.

[C]

He had to walk the. Yo, man, the balls. The balls to pull something like that off, man. You know, and, you know, another thing I took from this movie, I think Mike and Joe were sort of peas in the pie, where they were. They were on two completely separate paths to the same destination.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Which was. Which was. Which was Mike being the greatest entertainer of all time, you know? And then, you know, it just. It just. But Joe saw it one way, and Mike saw it a completely different way, and they acted as such. And. But things that they did, like, Like. Like. Like you just said, like, you know, Mike hiring representation to do his dirty work, that's some true businessman. Shit happens.

[A]

Happens all the time.

[C]

You know what I mean?

[A]

You just don't do. Live in their house, bro.

[C]

You know what I'm saying? I've been fired from a job that I love by someone that I thought I could have a direct conversation with. You know what I mean?

[A]

Yes.

[C]

And, you know, it's not. That's. And I'm not even. I'm not even tripping on that. That's the game is the game. As Marlo Stanfield so succinctly put in the wire. But, you know, it is what it is, man. But still, to have the temerity and tenacity to pull off a stunt like that and then just go home and see the man at home be like, yeah, man, you know, it is what it is, homie. You know what I'm saying?

[A]

Yeah. And look. And Joe was treating him like it was business.

[C]

Yep.

[A]

Right? Like, that's the thing about it. Joe was treating him like it is. The original version of Beyonce firing her daddy. Right. There was a level that Mike could not get to with his daddy being the manager. And it's worth noting in both of those cases, your daddy getting you as far as he did is a really impressive and a testament to your dad.

[C]

Yes, it is.

[A]

You know, but I think the other thing that happened with Joe, and this is what I've been told in part, happened with Beyonce and Matthew was. Matthew's people at Columbia were no longer the people who ran things at Columbia anymore.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And so now you got to get a manager who's got the relationships at your label with the right people is a real thing.

[C]

Trust me, it's a real thing.

[A]

Well, in this case, they turned over the label. Like, you're not in Motown anymore. You at this new place. And who knows what the changes were? But then people did not have the respect. A, didn't have the respect for Joe Jackson, and B, the Jacksons were not the same as the Jackson 5 in terms of whatever their importance was to the label at the time. And even at Motown, Barry Gordon was like, all right, this has gone about as far as it's going to go, right? But the movie gets to the Thriller part, and I thought it was an interesting editorial decision to build up. The Mike had Crips and Bloods in the beaded video, which I did not

[C]

realize in the movie.

[A]

You said what?

[C]

It was so ridiculous.

[A]

Yes, yes. So what? I didn't realize that that actually happened in real life because I just remember your boy Torres in the video. Michael DeLorenzo dancing in the video. So I didn't think it was. So it was a couple dances and actual Crips and Bloods. And it is my favorite thing about Michael Jackson, right? Or just the idea that people don't understand how the world works. It is demonstrated again in 1996 when he goes up in the favelas shoot that video. He is Michael Jackson, man. Like, he ain't got to. He ain't got to be afraid. The gangsters ain't about to rob Michael Jackson. They about to faint, just like everybody else faints when they see Michael Jackson, right? Like, they still. They still people.

[C]

Hey, hey, chill out, cuz. That's Michael Jackson, bro.

[A]

Michael Jackson. Like, nobody was. Nobody's like, man, I don't give a damn if that's Michael Jackson or not. Yes, you do.

[C]

Yes, you do. Yes, you do, bro. That's Michael Jackson, dog.

[A]

That's Michael Jackson, right? So they. They put together the scene where Mike is putting him through the dance steps and everything else. I do think it's funny. The idea of Michael Jackson choreo. Choreographing the gangsters. Cut, cut, cut, cut, cut.

[C]

One, five. I mean, bro, having somebody with a. With a flag hanging out of his back pocket has probably just been resident right off of 45, 6, 7, 8. Is crazy shit, bro. And it's so funny.

[A]

But it led to one of my big criticisms of the movie in terms of its enjoyability. And I'm with you, the by and large. Not a bad way to Spend an afternoon. Right. You get to hear the Michael Jackson songs or whatever. But did you see Bohemian Rhapsody?

[C]

Oh, yeah, the Freddie. Freddie. Well, Queen thing.

[A]

Right, but the Freddie Mercury movie, Right?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And it was clearly a movie that existed to get you to the songs, right. Like, the point of the movie was to set up for these big musical numbers. And with Freddy, there were very clear, like, delineations in time in terms of his fashion that spoke to different parts of his life. Right. You know, like, there's Mustache Freddie. There's, you know, clean, savage mustache. Yeah. Clone Freddy. There's like two eras of Mustache Freddy, but still, like, it's. The looks changed at very clear periods of time with songs that very clearly mark those periods of time. But I felt like with that movie, they nailed every big musical number, right? I didn't feel like they really nailed the music, like, building to the musical numbers in this one. I felt like it had the songs, but I felt like if you were gonna do Beat it, there's a better way to do Beat It. There was a stronger way to get you into thriller. Like, I just didn't also surprising decision. Know We Are the World.

[C]

Yeah, I thought that was. I thought that was peculiar too. You know what I mean? But then again.

[A]

But in terms of the grander image of Michael Jackson, Citizen of the world, regardless of how you feel about the song We Are the World, that is the. That's the biggest record he ever did. Right. Like, that is the height of Michael Jackson is the idea of We Are the World.

[C]

Right. That, you know, this song's not gonna work without him.

[A]

Right.

[C]

You know what I mean? Like, but I do, you know, I know you've probably read this also in different. Many different publications about the time it took to actually finish this film and how much they actually shot that had to get cut. Because, you know, I've read that that film was initially supposed to be like a. Like this big three and a half hour epic or whatever, and they had to chop it down to two hours and there's like all sorts of things that got cut. We don't know if it got filmed. And, you know, I've seen, like, online people have shared since the movies come out, like, principal photography of Jafar Jackson and different types of moments in Mike's life that weren't in the film. So who knows? They may have. They may have shot something like that and just didn't make the film, but.

[A]

Yeah, but still see how it doesn't make the film.

[C]

Yeah, I know. That's what I'm saying, I did also think, why would you not put that in the film?

[A]

You know, like. Like that was, you know, that's okay, I guess, right? Yeah. A lot of it obviously gets to the Pepsi fire, which I do think that historically, especially with the circumstances around his death, it's important to build that up in the movie, especially if their plans to make more movies, because they're clearly building you up to now he starts taking painkillers.

[C]

Right.

[A]

And, you know, whatever, everything else that leads to that. It also gets to that bit of awkward ending, which is ending with Bad as a full musical number. And so this is my thought on that. And I'm curious what you think if you want to get into, like a versive Bad, because to me, Bad is like a novelty single. I don't think of it as an enduring great, Mike. It's a. It's a easy to remember hook, but the hook also is really, really bad. What? Like, like, like you got Quincy Jones and Rob Tippinson on the line and everybody else and all you. You start with, your butt is mine. And the hook is really, really bad. Yeah, Mike. We scared of you, dog. Mike. But it ended with a full. Like, the end of the movie is a full musical number of Bad. And I'm like, I would have done a little bit of Bad and then end. Which to me is the most impactful song on Bad and the one that he was closing shows with in 92. And that's man in the Mirror. Like, that's the way to me that you wrap it up. Especially if the idea of this is that Michael Jackson is coming into his own. He is becoming his own man. I am looking at the man in the mirror. I'm asking him to change his ways.

[C]

That'd also be a great name for a sequel to the movie man in the Mirror, you know what I mean?

[A]

And I guess it might be coming, right? Right.

[C]

It might be coming.

[A]

They ain't stopping this Michael Jackson train. Not after all this goddamn money they made.

[C]

Not at all.

[A]

They stopped this one right here. It's going to get weird. It's going to get weird when they get to the next part. Right. We go have to reckon with some things.

[C]

Yeah. A whole lot.

[A]

Right. But I know. I just thought that if you're going to do this, you got to build up and make every music. Especially because the thing about Mike's music is it's so grand.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, off the wall. Those songs are not. I would not charge, like, term those as being grand. And I mean, that In a good way. I don't always love my music to be grand, but like Bad. Bad is a very grand record. There's a reason why Bad had all these top 10 hits, but we don't think of it as being as cold as, like. I don't think Bad's as good as dangerous, to be honest.

[C]

No, I don't. I don't either. But I also. But here's my take on Bad. Just that era, Mike and I had to be convinced of this. I think it was my homie Matt Skills that I had a conversation with about this. But I do think Bad, that era, Mike, the Bad era was Mike operating at his. The peak of his Michael Ness. You know what I mean? And I, I say that because it was the first thing post Thriller. And even though it wasn't Thriller, nothing was going to be Thriller after Thriller, to just be honest about that. That was just, you know, lightning in the bottle type thing. But Bad delivered. And this was. This was Mike truly, truly, truly solo. This is the. This is the. This was. I don't know how much Quincy was involved in Bad or if he was involved that much at all.

[A]

He was quite involved. And that is a controversial topic.

[C]

Hmm, There you go. But even that, like that era of Mike is when Mike was. Well, Mike truly felt like the solo star where it felt like we were getting the version of Mike that Mike saw of himself in his head.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

You know what I mean? I think that era. That era was when that actually was when that was happening. Which is why I always. I referenced that as the. The peak of Michael's Michael Ness. Musically, you know, it's. It is what it is. It's not. It's not Thriller, it's not off the wall. It's not even Dangerous, as you just pointed out. But you know, when you look at is, it is grand in scale. But if you take away. If you take away the. The title track and you look at, bro, that. That record has Liberian girl on it, you know?

[A]

Yes, it does it.

[C]

Another part of me with, you know, these and, you know, it's. It's got. I just can't stop loving you. These are like superior Michael Jackson songs. Yeah. You know what I mean? And outside of the singles, you know,

[A]

the way you make me feel is a monster, bro.

[C]

You know what I'm saying? Come on. Like. And to your point, to your point, I had to be convinced, like, because I was like, man, what I'm saying now, the notion that this was peak Michael, I rejected it at first when it was brought to me. I was like, no way. And then I had to sit back and look. I was like, you know what? In. In. You know, in all. In all around, you could make a point that that is the case.

[A]

Well, I mean, look, he wrote basically all the songs, which was not the case before. Like, you write a handful here and there, but he wrote all the songs. Problem is, with an album like this, you take two and a half years to do 10 tracks. I saw somebody make this point online where some of those songs, by the time they came out, felt dated. Like the 80s were moving so fast.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

That you could not. You could not put a song as it was in 1985 on an album that came out in 1987. You know, like. Like, you couldn't. You couldn't. Chuck D. Talks about that. With the first PE Album where he felt like it came out, he was like, yo, it was a early 86 sound, and we came out in late 86. And so he talked about when Rebel Without a Pause was dropped, that he was like, as soon as they recorded it, put it out. Like, we can't wait to put it on an album next year. And they did eventually put it out, but it's like, you got to put it out now because things are moving so fast. This was in that same time period. I just feel like it's an album where the sum of its parts is the individual singles. As a collection of singles, it is better than the sum of its parts.

[C]

I can agree with that.

[A]

You know what I mean? But, like, it's. It's got songs, it's got jams. And so it would have been interesting to see if that movie had gone a little bit past that. But leading ending, the movie with hey, Mike has done bad. I'm like, nah, nah, nah, nah. You're not moving me here. I will say this other thing, too. And I know some of y' all haven't seen the movie, but, I mean, it's the story of Michael Jackson. You probably know these things. I don't know how this works in your theater. Mine was packed. I went and saw it at the Magic Johnson Theater on 125th Street.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

There was not as much singing and dancing along to the musical numbers as I expected. The part.

[C]

Nah, I was turned up. I mean, I went to a matinee, so my theater wasn't really full, but I was singing along everything.

[A]

But I expected, even with it being full, maybe those people went to first week, you know what I'm saying? Like, maybe the people that there's a selection bias that comes from it. But the part that got the rousing ovation from the audience is when he was on stage and he announced that that was the last Jackson's tour. Which again, he didn't actually tell his daddy. He just went out there and did it in front of the world and walked past his daddy and that's what everybody clapped for was that. And I found that to be very interesting that the way that they had built up this idea that this is actually a Michael Jackson coming of age story to be strong enough to defy his father landed with that audience, but never at any point did he get strong enough to say it to his daddy's face. And let us keep in mind, this is a movie. If you saw Straight Outta Compton which had Dr. Dre out there like Tookie Williams killing every. Just, just whooping ass and taking names at every turn, you could have made Michael Jackson whoever you wanted to be. And they could have very easily put together a scene where he got in Joe's face. I done had enough of this. I run this. They could have very easily did that. And that is not at all what they are building. They are building Michael Jackson as followers. I have never seen anybody make their hero, passive aggressor and a little bit like a sucker like this movie did

[C]

with Michael Jackson, man. Do you think that, do you think that speaks to the Generation Z of it all and how social media has made passive aggressiveness be like the, the norm now? Where. Whereas how we grew up, if you, if you, if you said something, if you, you know, said some slick shit and here's your face, you probably get a double ass whooping, you know what I'm saying? Not one. One for saying slick shit and one for not being ten toes down. Yeah, yeah. And being a coward about it after you say it. You know what I mean? Like, so it could be, it could be some of that. Which reminds me of something that when I was watching this movie, the one thing that was on my mind. I don't, I don't know if you saw this, but that was a few years ago. There was a young content creator, really young, clearly young that was getting flamed all over the web because he had this high take that Taylor Swift was more famous than Michael Jackson.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

And I was thinking to myself, like, I wonder what he's thinking about. All of this is happening right now. You know what I'm saying? Like a guy that's been. Mike's been dead for a long time for a Long time. And there's a movie being made about him. And the same. The same response that was happening in 1983 when he was the biggest star in the world is happening again in

[A]

2026 after significant reputational damage.

[C]

Damage. All sorts of damage. You know, saying like, damage like what. What would seem to be irreparable damage to anyone else? You know?

[A]

Yo, forget about the. The child sexual assault allegations, right? How about just being that brand of weirdo?

[C]

Yep.

[A]

Now we just let that ride.

[C]

Like I play with monkeys.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. We are much more aware of Princess Weird, and Princess Weird was a lot more just. I dress weird, right? Like. Like, Like I'm a little different than the rest of y'. All. Mike's weird is a whole nother world of weird. I literally hang out with children. Those are my homies.

[C]

Those are my. My real life friends are. Are 12 year olds.

[A]

Right? That. That's my crew. I am one of what. What. What they call him in Peter Pan? The Lost Boys. That was what they called him. Like, I am literally one of these, by the way. I realized I had never actually consumed Peter Pan because Nick's daughter was at a production of Peter Pan at her school. I went and checked it out, and I was like, wow, this move. This is a really dark story for Peter children. Guys, what are we doing that.

[C]

That goes into. We'll talk about this offline, but I have my whole conspiracy theory about Disney, and that's a conversation for offline for sure. But that Peter Pan feeds right into it because that is a very dark story.

[A]

Yeah, but that's what we got, man. Like, this was worth the time. Like, it was worth checking out. I'm curious to see how the rest of it goes, but they're clearly, as all these films are, building the building for the estate.

[C]

Mm. I kind of feel bad for Jermaine's son and not in a way, not in a. You know, like, you know, I fear for his life or his safety, any type thing. I feel bad because now you finna have to go to work forever. Don't me.

[A]

You.

[C]

You Michael Jackson now. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You f. Have to go. Your work ain't never gonna stop, dog. You know what I'm saying? You gonna be hard pressed to do. And. And I. I also want to. I. I mentioned Coleman Domingo as being one of.

[A]

He.

[C]

He. Jafar Jackson put on a. A fantastic performance as his uncle.

[A]

Right.

[C]

He did. He put on a fantastic performance. So I don't want. I don't want to disparage him in that. I don't know if you realize what you signed up for, man. You finna be Mike forever.

[A]

Yeah, that's where you need to make sure that check was right, man.

[C]

What?

[A]

Hey, man, that's DJ Wally Sparks. Check him out. Twitch TV. DJWileysparks. One of the code is on the ones and twos, my brother. I appreciate you.

[C]

Hey, man, thank you for having me, man. I always enjoy conversations with you, bro.

[A]

Man, I appreciate it. Ladies and gentlemen, thanks so much for joining us here on the right time. We do this four days a week. Ryan Brumley handled everything behind the scenes. Thank you, sir. Hit the voicemail line. 323-596-7767. Go to bomanijoneslive.com get tickets. May 15, live in Atlanta. Me and my man Rod, the black guy who tips beaumontijoneslive.com Remember, follow the right time. Subscribe like, rate us, review us, give us five stars. You only give us four stars. I'm inclined to believe you are a hater. Talk to you guys in a couple of days. Take it EAS.