2026 NFL Draft 101: DK's Top-Five Mock, This Year's Jaxson Dart, Top WRs, and the Four Loko Era

Summary

The Ringer Fantasy Football Show

Episode: 2026 NFL Draft 101: DK's Top-Five Mock, This Year's Jaxson Dart, Top WRs, and the Four Loko Era

Hosts: Danny Heifetz, Danny Kelly (DK), Craig Horlbeck

Date: January 30, 2026

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Overview

This episode serves as a comprehensive primer for the 2026 NFL Draft, tailored for fantasy football fans. Danny Heifetz, Danny Kelly, and Craig Horlbeck break down DK’s current top-five mock draft, quarterback prospects (and why the class might “suck”), the wide receiver and running back pools, and the overall “meat and potatoes” vibe of this year’s class. The group leavens analysis with classic Ringer banter—complete with Tony Hawk references, the Four Loko drinking era, and tales from Craig’s days as an extra on TV and game shows.

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Main Themes

• Introduction to the 2026 NFL Draft prospects and class dynamics
• The top quarterbacks (or lack thereof) and why the class is regarded as weak
• Deep dive into DK’s top-five board/mocks and positional strengths/weaknesses
• Debates over positional value (e.g., safety, WR2 in the top five, RB in the first round)
• Nostalgia for past draft classes and the “Four Loko Era”

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Does This Year's Draft Class "Suck"?

Timestamp: 03:02–05:45

• DK: “Yes.” (03:21) — Simply put, he sees a lack of top-tier quarterbacks, which drags down the perceived quality.
• Breakdown: There's a clear top player at some positions (e.g., RB Jeremiah Love), but massive drop-offs after that, especially at fantasy-relevant spots.
• Danny Heifetz: “It feels like there is talent at the top, but the gap between that top tier and then there’s just large gaps in certain positions. Quarterback is obviously the big one, but honestly, a lot of fantasy ones, too.” (05:15)

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2. Quarterbacks: Panda Watch & Mendoza Mania

Timestamp: 05:32–16:32

Fernando Mendoza (Indiana), QB1

• Unquestioned QB1; may be the only first-round QB.
• DK’s Comp: “Flacco on the field, Russ on the mic.” (07:16)
  • DK: “Stylistically, he kind of reminds me of Joe Flacco…But on the mic, man, he is like, polished, derogatory, just too, too polished.…Fernando Mendoza has kind of the similar vibes [as Russ], where he’ll get asked a question on the field and then look directly at you in the camera and answer…It’s just really funny.” (07:16)
  • “Polished, but authentic” (Craig, 09:01)
• Heifetz: Details why Mendoza’s stock rose, with specific highlights from big games: “What separates me with Mendoza is that he played at his best against the best teams…that was a completely different kind of game than the way they beat Oregon…But NFL-level competition, I think Indiana just kind of smashed all these other teams. And I think Mendoza like ton of RPOs. I think as much RPOs as anyone in college football probably. But the pro style traits are all there.” (11:47)
• Debate over “ceiling”: Mendoza is high floor, maybe not MVP, more Goff/Ryan/Cousins—“It’s hard for me to talk about his ceiling when, you know, you got guys like Burrow, who is like a similar body type to him.” (DK, 15:24)

Quarterback Class Comparison

• Mendoza would slot around Cam Ward from the prior year, below 2024’s elite (Caleb, Jaden Daniels, Drake May). (10:36–11:16)
• Expectation: “Mendoza will go first overall…[then] Simpson will be on that round one, two sort of tier or whatever. He might go late round one if someone wants to take a chance on him, get that 5th-year option or whatever. But probably round two, and then you get like Nussmeier and whoever else…probably third round-ish or more.” (DK, 23:34)
• All other QBs heavily flawed— might see Nussmeier get a start in 2-3 years, but no obvious year-one starters outside Mendoza. (23:34)

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3. QB2 Debate: Ty Simpson, Garrett Nussmeier, and Others

Timestamp: 17:15–25:22

• Heifetz: “The consensus number two guy is going to be Ty Simpson from Bama…I don’t like that he’s entering the draft because he couldn’t go back to Bama…So I don’t love any of these guys.” (18:35)
• DK: Nussmeier gets some love: “I think it’s such a funny class because Ty Simpson…is 23 with one year of starting experience…Nussmeier, what I’ve seen is listed at like 6’1” 205ish…his dad is a coach in the NFL…So I think to me, Nussmeier is the most interesting one.” (21:56–22:14)
• General Consensus: "All these quarterbacks are flawed. It’s weird.” (Heifetz, 22:50)
• Drew Aller: Drew Aller of Penn State is high-upside, could be developed but is very raw—compared to Joe Milton: “You watch like a 3, 5 minute montage of the best Drew Aller throws and you’re like, this should be the number one pick of the draft…it kind of reminds me of Joe Milton a little bit where you’re betting on sort of the traits, but the floor is like, terrible.” (25:22, DK & Craig)

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4. DK’s Top 5 Big Board & Mock Draft Breakdown

Timestamp: 26:06–41:55

1. Fernando Mendoza, QB, Indiana

2. Caleb Downs, S

• Heifetz: “Reminds me in a way of Kyle Hamilton…you go into the draft and everyone’s like, wait, you can’t take him because he’s a safety…But he’s just, Caleb Down’s been the best defender college football for two years…” (26:52)
• DK: “He’s a do-it-all kind of defender. He blitzes, he covers, he can defend the run. He’s very instinctive. His, you know, he’s always around the ball…” (29:14)

3. Arvell Reese, LB/EDGE, Ohio State

• Hybrid “tweener” LB/Edge—rare athletic tools, high ceiling, risky if not deployed properly
• DK: “His skill set to play on the edge as a dedicated pass rusher… it’s kind of the same conversation we were having with [Micah Parsons] coming out. Is he going to play off the ball or is he going to be on the edge, or both?” (32:49)
• Heifetz: “If Arvell Reese goes to the Seahawks, he actually would win DPOY before his rookie contract [ends]…” (32:36)

4. Francis Ma Yoga, OT, Miami

• Physical, not a “freak all time,” but nasty, dependable, high floor: “He’s an ass kicker. He just plays so physical, tough, dependable…I think he’s got a really, really high floor.” (35:03)

5. Wide Receiver Debate for Giants

• Craig: “I’ve seen your mock. A lot of mocks are giving the Giants a wide receiver. Do you agree with that?” (41:06)
• Heifetz: “I hate it…It’s not you, it’s…everybody is giving the Giants receiver this pick, and it makes me want to tear my hair out…The Giants need a right tackle.” (41:12)

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5. Wide Receiver Class: Quality, Not Quantity at the Top

Timestamp: 45:03–49:59

• Carnell Tate (Ohio State):
  • DK’s comp: “Tony Hawk’s Pro Skater—tall, gangly, weird ability to contort in the air and land on his feet.” (45:14)
  • “He’s probably a number two receiver at the next level.” (48:10, DK)
• Makai Lemon (USC): Undersized, Steve Smith comparisons, great hands, YAC threat.
• Jordan Tyson (Arizona State): Comped to Christian Watson—“twitchy athlete, big plays down the field...” (48:30)
• Casey Concepcion (Texas A&M): Like Khalil Shakir—“really good body control, makes some incredible catches, RAC, big time playmaker” (49:00)
• Denzel Boston (Washington): Comp to Courtland Sutton, a “good player, but not sure if I'd take that in the first round,” per Craig. (51:23)

Craig: “You're comparing these guys to Khalil Shakir, Christian Watson, Doug Baldwin...If you knew you were getting Doug Baldwin, would you draft him in the first round?” (49:59)

DK: “Yeah, 100%... Have you seen some of the dog players come out of the first round?” (50:26)

Conclusion:

• Good, not historic WR class: lots of “number two” types, no clear Chase/Jefferson-tier player.

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6. Running Backs: Jeremiah Love—Generational?

Timestamp: 51:47–55:57

• Jeremiah Love (Notre Dame): “Probably the best back, but gap to the rest of the class is massive.”
• DK's Comp: Travis Etienne—explosive, but not Bijan/Saquon/Gibbs-caliber. "The Jeremiah Love hype has probably gotten a little out of hand." (52:03)
• “I do think Jeremiah Love’s like a special player…can do it all, a little thin, but the receiving is awesome, hurdles people, etc.” (53:00, Heifetz)
• Discussion: When is it “ok” to draft an RB high? Consensus: fits as “the final piece” for a loaded roster, but not as a foundational building block. “Running back is still dependent on five other offensive linemen to make them better.” (55:02, Heifetz)

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7. Edge & D-Line: The Worm and the Aesthetic Outliers

Timestamp: 36:38–61:40

• Peter Woods (Clemson): Compared to Shai-Hulud, the Dune Sandworm, for his disruptive, overwhelming style.

  • DK: “Rotund, wide-bodied, explosive guy in the middle…lot of upside as a pass rusher…questions over why production fell off this last season.” (37:19)

• Keldrick Falk: “Trayvon Walker type, big, long, powerful, but not all traits have shown up in production yet.” (38:27)

• David Bailey (Texas Tech): The “Most Aesthetic” Defensive End.

  • Heifetz and DK describe his non-traditional on-field look: "Hand in the dirt, wears #31...black everything, white socks, no gloves, doesn't tuck in his shirt..." (59:08)
  • Comp: Michael Bennett—“The best way I can express it: he was sort of slovenly looking, even though he was one of the best pass rushers of that era. I like it, actually.” (DK, 59:53)

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8. Old School Drinking: Four Loko & the Drinking Generational Shift

Timestamp: 80:33–86:56

• The Four Loko Era: Fond (and slightly horrified) reminiscing. “Four Loko feels like an 80s drink. I can’t believe that we were drinking that. They changed the recipe in 2010…” (Craig, 84:18)
• Drinking games: Edward Forty Hands, Brass Monkeys (“orange juice in a 40”), sidewalk slams, and others described. (82:14–83:42)
• Drinks as a generational signifier: “The new generation doesn’t even like to drink anymore, dude.” (DK, 82:40)

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9. Memorable Quotes & Moments

On Mendoza:

• “Flacco on the field, Russ on the mic.” – DK (07:16)
• “I didn’t want to like him, but he Ted Lasso’d me.” – Heifetz (13:22)

On the Draft Class:

• “You can't win your draft in the first round, but you can lose it.” – DK (31:51)
• “It’s a good meat and potatoes draft.” – DK (61:52)

On Carnell Tate:

• “Tony Hawk's Pro Skater–tall, kind of gangly, has an unnatural ability to contort in the air and land on his feet.” – DK (45:14)

On David Bailey:

• “He wears number 31. Red flag. No gloves.” – Heifetz (59:08)
• “The best way I can express it: he was sort of slovenly looking, even though he was one of the best pass rushers of that era.” – DK (59:53)

On Four Loko:

• “Four Loko was notorious for its original blackout-in-a-can formula.” – Craig (85:18)
• “Old English…14%. That’s what wine is. With caffeine.” – DK & Craig (86:14)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Timestamp | |-----------------------------------------------|--------------------| | Opening Topic: “Does draft suck?” | 03:02–05:45 | | QB Review & “Panda Watch” | 05:32–16:32 | | Mendoza vs. Previous QBs | 10:36–11:16 | | QB2 Debate | 17:15–25:22 | | Top Five Big Board/Mock Breakdowns | 26:06–41:55 | | WR Class Analysis, Tony Hawk Reference | 45:03–49:59 | | Running Back Class | 51:47–55:57 | | D-Line/Egde Character Profiles | 36:38–61:40 | | Drinking Nostalgia / Four Loko | 80:33–86:56 |

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Final Takeaways

• This is a draft of intrigue, not instant stars: There are a few clear top guys at some positions, but massive gaps and question marks for many others, especially at quarterback.
• QB: Only Mendoza is seen as a legit, top-tier NFL starter. Everyone else is a developmental project, a la Nussmeier/Simpson, or high-risk like Drew Aller.
• WR: Deep with “good” players, but lacks blue-chip WR1s. Most top prospects project as “high-end WR2s.”
• RB: Jeremiah Love is good, but not a once-in-a-decade talent.
• If you need OL, DL, Edge, or “meat and potatoes” positions—this is your year.
• Prepare for lots of teams to “eat their vegetables” with trench picks, unless forced to reach for a QB because of need.
• Also, don't let your quarterback pick your running back... and RIP to the original Four Loko.

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For the Uninitiated Listener

• Expect a historically thin, QB-light draft at the top, but strong value for offensive/defensive linemen and some exciting skill players who might not have “superstar” ceiling but offer a useful floor.
• The consensus: This is a “builder’s” draft, not an instant fantasy bonanza.
• Be wary of “hype train” picks at skill positions—and always remember: the Four Loko era lives on as a cautionary tale.

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Contact and Listener Involvement

• The gang asks for your most embarrassing stories, best man speeches, and original Four Loko tales:
  Email: [e-mail]

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“We were built different back then, you guys.” – DK (82:39)

Transcript

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[Danny Heiferson]

This episode is brought to you by Velveeta. Game day is all about the tailgate spread. First things first, who's bringing the Velveeta drip? Just like your favorite players on the field, Velveeta fans go all in on what they love. Creamy shells and cheese, melty Velveeta blocks and cheesy jarred quesos. They're taking down one taste bud at a time. Velveeta is the real MVP of the tailgate. You've got to respect the drip. Do yourself a favor and stock up on Velveeta before kickoff. Welcome to the ringer fantasy football show. My name is Danny Heiferson and joined by Danny Kalian. Craig world I get to Today we are going over your introduction your 101 to the NFL Draft. DK our draft expert here. Your top 32 players. Big board up at the ringer.com youm got your mock draft up at the ringer.com we're gonna go through just introducing people to this year's draft. We have some emails at the end that are pretty fun.

[Craig]

Dk, what's the URL go?

[DK]

Yeah, it changed this year. Craig. Damn it. Why'd you have to ask?

[Craig]

It did. Okay.

[Danny Heiferson]

Because I don't have three or com redirects there.

[DK]

So that's the worst. Okay. Well, that works. I was looking at theringer.com NFL. Draft backslash 2026 backslash 20. Big dashboard.

[Craig]

Okay. Yeah, just go there. Yeah. And it'll be.

[DK]

Just go. The rigor. It's a big button. Push.

[Danny Heiferson]

Yeah. We're gonna go through all this and also emails at the end. We found Craig's extra appearance in that Emily Dickinson movie in the Video and the game show that Craig was on which he couldn't remember the name.

[DK]

Some Internet sleuths out here doing work.

[Craig]

Shout out some important stuff.

[Danny Heiferson]

Yeah, email us, ringer, fantasy football, gmail.com and shout out to the people in the discord who immediately found Craig in all these movies.

[Craig]

Can you guys find the Zodiac? That'd be cool. Get on that next.

[Danny Heiferson]

Okay, we're gonna get to the draft and again, we're covering the draft. We're going to beat the combine in Indianapolis in a few weeks and you know, after the Super Bowl. Stick with us. We cover the draft, offseason trades, free agency, everything starting with dk. The number one question on the minds of everybody with this draft. Let's just get to it. Does this year's draft suck?

[DK]

Yes.

[Craig]

Okay, but I want you to tell me, is it like across the board, the top players at every position are weaker or is it just the sexy positions like quarterback, wide receiver, running back, edge rushers suck, or is it just like bad across the board?

[DK]

No, I think it's mainly and particularly just there's not very many good quarterbacks in this class. We got Fernando Mendoza from Indiana who's almost surely going to go number one overall and then we might not have another first round quarterback, honestly, which is pretty rare obviously. And a lot of times drafts get judged by the level of talent at the top. But I think it's, it's the quarterback situation and it's a flattening after that where you know there's a bunch of really good players at non premium positions. Caleb Downs is up there and it's like, is he going to be a top 10 pick or top safety pick? Caleb. Yeah, sorry, safety. We've got Arvell Reese from Ohio State who is kind of a tweener guy. He might not. Teams might be a little hesitant to pick a player like that that early. Reuben Bain, who's gotten a ton of hype this year, but he has really short arms. There's just a lot of edge rushers.

[Craig]

Yes.

[DK]

Sorry.

[Danny Heiferson]

Yeah, it's the one away.

[DK]

Craig, I'm going to make you do that the entire show. But yeah, I think it's at the top. It's not. There's not as many quote unquote blue chip players as you might see in a typical class. But I do think it is. There's plenty of reason to be excited about. I think it's a good receiver class. I think there's some very interesting edge players in this class. There's some really rangy Linebackers. Craig loves rangy linebackers, so that's going to be exciting for him.

[Danny Heiferson]

Big rangy linebacker class. I think the. The thing that almost sums up the class to me in some ways is the running backs. The running backs are kind of top heavy. We've got Jeremiah Love, who's so good that he's a top 10 pick. Pick probably. Or maybe the number one overall player on some team's boards just as talent and the gap. And the number two running back in the entire draft class might be Jeremiah Love's backup at Notre Dame.

[DK]

Right.

[Danny Heiferson]

Which I think highlights that. It feels like that across a lot of spots where there's just. There is talent at the top, but the gap between that top tier and then there's just large gaps in. In certain positions. Quarterback is obviously the big one, but honestly, a lot of fantasy ones, too.

[Craig]

So, dk, starting with. I want to talk about Mendoza, which. This is America's favorite off season segment. Dk, do it.

[DK]

What am I doing?

[Danny Heiferson]

God, you're so rusty.

[Craig]

You know what to do.

[Danny Heiferson]

What do we call it?

[Craig]

What is America's favorite off season segment?

[DK]

I totally don't know what. You're blanking. What are you talking about?

[Craig]

We're going to talk about the quarterbacks.

[DK]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Craig]

So what is the segment where we talk about the quarterbacks?

[DK]

Nothing's coming.

[Danny Heiferson]

What's your catchphrase? Every time we check in on quarterbacks.

[Craig]

Yeah. We've been doing this for a couple years now.

[Danny Heiferson]

Like four years.

[DK]

Can you just say it? I can't remember.

[Danny Heiferson]

We're not going to say it's based.

[Craig]

Off one of our favorite, most quotable movies.

[DK]

It does ring a bell. And I'm completely blanking on what we're talking.

[Craig]

Imagine you are hosting a local news channel and.

[DK]

Oh, Panda Watch.

[Craig]

There we go.

[DK]

Okay.

[Craig]

Okay. For the list. Panda Watch. There we go. Okay. Starting with Panda Watch.

[DK]

In a while, guys. I'm sorry.

[Craig]

We're gonna check in on other quarterbacks. Like Paul Rudd checks in on Pandas.

[DK]

All right.

[Craig]

And from anchorman. And we're gonna.

[Danny Heiferson]

Because they haven't done anything since the last time we talked about him. But we have to talk about him anyway.

[Craig]

Yeah. So dk, you're right. Fernando Mendoza is probably the only interesting quarterback in this draft. But he's so interesting that he might. There might be enough conversation around Fernando Mendoza to fill up the next three months.

[DK]

Right?

[Craig]

Dk, your comp for him. You do great comps on the draft guide. A lot of them are kind of serious. One to one NFL Comps. And the other ones are pretty funny. Like, you have a guy from Miami whose comp is Jim Carrey and the cable guy. And for Fernando Mendoza, you have Flacco on the field, Russ on the mic in all caps. Can you explain that?

[DK]

So stylistically, he kind of reminds me of Joe Flacco. Tall, kind of gangly looking guy, pretty good arm, good processor. I'm guessing he'll probably have a long career in the NFL. But on the mic, man, he is like, polished, derogatory, just too, too polished. Where it feels like, and this is something that Russell Wilson talked about forever when he was early in his career is like his dad, Russell Wilson's dad trained him to be in press conferences when he was in middle school, legitimately, like, prepping him to be a politician someday. Fernando Mendoza has kind of the similar vibes where he, he'll get asked a question on the field and then look directly at you in the camera and answer a question. And, and it's just like, so polished and I don't know, it's just really funny. I do genuinely, really like Fernando Mendoza. In fact, he's the top guy on my board. But, yeah, the interviews are a little bit tough.

[Craig]

You have him as the best player in all in the entire draft.

[DK]

Yeah, well, I think the quarterback thing also factors in there. I think if you're talking about pure talent, you might have some other guys that are the number one thing, but, you know, with the importance of quarterbacks, that kind of pushes him over the top.

[Danny Heiferson]

It's funny, the quarterback having a LinkedIn that's genuinely updated is unbelievable. And I don't know, I assume LinkedIn at this point is smart enough to be paying him because Mendoza actually updated his little picture of LinkedIn.

[DK]

He got nil from LinkedIn.

[Danny Heiferson]

Open door with the hashtag. But he actually, I mean, I, I, he, It's like actual filled out LinkedIn with all these, like he actually has in quarterback, University of Indiana.

[DK]

In his experience, teammates are, you know, like, answering little questions. Is he good at throwing? He's got, like, the skills on the bottom.

[Craig]

It's like throwing like footwork, arm talent. PowerPoint.

[Danny Heiferson]

PowerPoint.

[Craig]

Do you think?

[DK]

I don't know, interviews.

[Craig]

You comparing him to Russell Wilson on the mic is interesting to me because I feel like, I feel like there is a natural authenticity to Mendoza. And even though it feels manicured, I do kind of think that's just who he is.

[DK]

Yeah, but that's like, I think that's Russell Wilson too, a little bit.

[Craig]

See, I feel like If I were at dinner with Russ, he could be a completely different person. And if I'm at dinner with Fernando Mendoza, this is exactly who he is.

[DK]

That's fair that I think that's a good delineation. You know, I don't know.

[Danny Heiferson]

Is going to ask the waiter's name and shake their hand and be like, thank you for be.

[Craig]

And he'll be like, these chicken tenders are too spicy or something like, yeah, okay, that makes sense. Russ. I don't know, Russ. I feel like I. I actually have no idea who he is. I feel like I know exactly who Fernando Mendoza is.

[DK]

Maybe Kirk Cousins is a better answer here. I don't know.

[Craig]

Do you think my favorite thing to do, because I'm not. I'm not a college football expert. I will act as the avatar for the average person who doesn't watch a ton of college football. My favorite thing to do is to make you compare this current class to the prior classes. Last year, the quarterbacks were Cam Ward went one overall. You had Shador Jackson Dart, you know, and then the year before that was a great class. You had Jaden Daniels, obviously, Caleb Williams, Drake May, Michael Panick, J.J. mcCarthy. I want you quickly right now on the spot that those eight guys. So look at the 2025 draft, which is Dart, Ward and Shuck. Let's do those three. And then the 2024 class, which is like your Caleb, your May Daniels and then McCarthy and Penix. Where does Mendoza kind of rest in that group to you?

[DK]

Sorry, my dog is barking downstairs very loudly.

[Danny Heiferson]

The dog is like, Jackson Dart is first.

[DK]

George, shut it. I would put him. I think I would probably put him right around Cam Ward. And so Cam Ward was the number one quarterback last year. I probably would have Fernando Mendoza graded above Jackson Dart, Chuck the other guys in that class. And then going back to 2024, that was the Caleb Williams class.

[Craig]

Caleb, Jaden Daniels, Drake May.

[DK]

I would have those guys above all three. Mendoza.

[Danny Heiferson]

Yeah.

[Craig]

So it's kind of those three. And then Mendoza is kind of in that next tier with Cam Ward.

[DK]

Yes.

[Craig]

Above guys like Shock and Dart and McCarthy and Penix.

[DK]

Right.

[Craig]

Okay.

[DK]

That's where. And I'm talking in terms of where I would have graded them pre draft. Obviously now with hindsight, you could kind of like move guys around. I probably have Dart higher than I.

[Danny Heiferson]

Had him dart First, Drake May 2nd, Shane Daniels third, Caleb fourth.

[DK]

Yeah, sure, sure. But yeah, that was based on kind of like where I saw them coming into each draft.

[Craig]

Hi, Fitz. Do you feel like, did your Opinion of Fernando Mendoza change throughout the season. Like, did you go from this guy's a fun story to I actually think this guy is the number one pick in the draft.

[Danny Heiferson]

Yeah, I didn't really want to take him seriously and then he just started playing Well. I think that what separates me with Mendoza is that he played at his best against the best teams. And some of the games they won in different kind of ways. Like, you know what I mean? The Ohio State, the Big ten championship game, they beat Ohio State, who was probably the most talented team in college football by a lot. And that was a completely different kind of game than the way they beat Oregon. But they basically, when they played NFL level competition, I think Indiana just kind of smashed all these other teams. And I think Mendoza like ton of RPOs. I think as much rpos as anyone in college football probably. But the pro style, the pro style traits are all there. Like, and I think it matters way more when you do against NFL level competition. But like Tom Brady, who's going to be making this pick for the Raiders. Whether they say it or not, Tom Brady's the person in charge of this Tom Brady. Like, when he lists the things he wants at a quarterback, the number one thing he says is like, can you throw a dig? You have the arm strength to throw a ball from the opposite hash to the sideline and beat the breaking speed of a cornerback. Because if you can, it's a pick six. Mendoza had some of the best throws of his season against Oregon against like NFL level competition. And he's just hitting far hash and a college football hashes further away. He's throwing a 10 yard third and 10, but the ball's traveling like 45 yards in the air to get the 10 yards. And I'm like, Brady's gonna watch that and love it. Brady's also gonna love that Mendoza based his entire freaking game off Tom Brady. Because they're gonna talk all the time about how he's like grew up a mile from Miami Stadium. Mendoza's from Boston or New England, the area. So he grew up a Patriots fan rooting for Brady's, modeled himself off Brady. But the arm strength, the mobility, like, I think frankly, like the grit. I hate to say it, but the freaking grit that. Like that touchdown and the championship Flipping grit. Flipping grit.

[Craig]

Flip and go.

[Danny Heiferson]

Let's flip it. Dude, we're flipping champs. Yeah, it's corny. I didn't want to like him, but he Ted lassoed me. That's the way simmondoz. I didn't Want to like him, he's too corny. I'm better than this guy. And then I'm like, you know what? This guy's sick. And I was being cynical and mean and he's actually awesome.

[Craig]

Is it fair to say that he's like a higher floor, lower ceiling type first round pick? I feel like he is a more old school, traditional quarterback prototype, big pocket passer, good arm, accurate.

[Danny Heiferson]

Yeah, you look at the last year Goff, Joe Flacco.

[Craig]

Exactly. Because it's like Kim Ward was kind of like had a freak arm talent, weird arm angle, stuff like that. The year before that. Caleb and Jaden Daniels and Drake May are all completely different, more modern quarterbacks. You had like Bryce Young and C.J. stroud. Would you say Mendoza, DK is like a. He's not going to kill you, but he's not going to be the reason. He's probably not going to be like the MVP type and he's more likely to settle into that like Matt Ryan, Kirk Cousins range. Even though I guess Matt Ryan did win an np.

[DK]

Mvp. Yeah. No, and I think, I mean the ceiling is always just a funny question. It's like what kind of ceiling do you have if you're leading your team down the field with your arm? I think that's, that's plenty of ceiling. Obviously. I think in the modern game we look at guys like Jayden Daniels over the last couple of years, Jaden Daniels, Caleb Williams, Drake May is like a great example now. I mean he's an MVP candidate because in, in a large part because of what he can do with his legs. I mean he's so dynamic when everything breaks down. He can get out and run and really, really help his team. That's not really Mendoza, although he, I think he's athletic enough to kind of like scoot around and make plays, get first downs and things like that. But he's not a dual threat quarterback. I don't know. I think I just look at what he did in, in the college football playoffs and I, I don't know if he's as talented as Joe Burrow, but like he's not that different stylistically from Joe Burrow. So like, what are we talking about with ceiling here? You know, I think he, Joe Burrow is known as like icy cool, ice in his veins, you know, but he's not physically that impressive. He has accurate deep ball. He's not very fast anymore after he tore his acl. So it's hard for me to talk about his ceiling when, you know, you got guys Like Burrow, who is like a similar body type to him, is.

[Danny Heiferson]

An amazing comp because as a personality you would never do it. Even when he was in college, Burrow was just so cool. But it's a similar story of the no one would have thought this guy would be a first round pick entering the season. And then he did go undefeated national championship, first overall pick, lock. But Burrow had the, you know, coming out senior night with his name spell with the E, A, U, X like Burrow and then like the cigar and like Burrow was like the coolest college quarterback in like a decade. And then Mendoza is just not. But you're right that he probably does kind of play.

[DK]

He does play a little Burrow.

[Danny Heiferson]

I think the instructure, the pocket, the pocket maneuvering with Burrow was elite. But Mendoza has good pocket mobility too. It's like he's not fast, but he can navigate. Right. Protection.

[DK]

I think when you look at the parallels of what they did in terms of leading their teams to national titles, winning the Heisman. He's a Heisman winner who won the national title.

[Danny Heiferson]

There's only six guys I think that were undefeated national champion, Heisman winner, number one pick. And it's like Joe Burrow, Cam Newton, Mendoza, and then like, you know, some dudes in Notre dame in the 40s.

[Craig]

So I think yeah, when you look at Burrow and Mendoza's college stats, it really is like a come out of nowhere Pop. That final year, Burrow, I mean the two years at Ohio State didn't really play. And then his, his first year at LSU he had 16 touchdowns and the next year he had 60.

[Danny Heiferson]

That team is just like that and then seems fake.

[Craig]

And then Mendoza is like, you know, his last year at Cali had 16 touchdowns and then his first year Indiana, he has 41. Like it just completely coming out of nowhere. Yeah. Okay, this is where you two can come in handy because the rest of the quarterbacks in this draft, you know, I know these guys by name, saw a couple highlights.

[DK]

Right.

[Craig]

They were on at the bar on Saturdays. We can run through them. I'm curious to get your opinion on like so DK in your, in your first big board, your mock. You don't have any quarterbacks going in the first round outside of Mendoza.

[DK]

Right.

[Craig]

There's a list here of 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. I'm going to go six guys. And I want you guys to each give me who you think has the potential to be the, the Jackson Dart or the Tyler Shock of this year. So we have Ty Simpson, who's the Alabama quarterback. We have Carson Beck, who just lost in the national title on Miami, Garrett Nussmeier of lsu, Drew Aller, Penn State, Cade Clubnik from Clemson, and then, I don't know. Do you want to add Diego Pavia?

[Danny Heiferson]

Probably dominating the Senior bowl right now.

[DK]

He measured in at 59 at the senior Bowl.

[Danny Heiferson]

Craig, you know what's funny talking.

[Craig]

He was listed as 6ft tall. But here's the college profile.

[Danny Heiferson]

He's 59 and 7 8. So he's 5 10. And yet this is like Russell, he's going to drop a full round because it's 59 and 7 8. So not 5 10. Diego popular.

[DK]

I mean, yeah. Dylan Gabriel started games this year and he was about the same height. Ish.

[Danny Heiferson]

I know, but it's like I'm not.

[DK]

Like, ruling it out. But yeah, I mean, he's not. I would say I'm not taking him super seriously as an NFL quarterback right now.

[Craig]

So let's start with heifers this time. Heifers.

[DK]

Who.

[Craig]

Who do you think has a chance to be the surprise quarterback hit?

[Danny Heiferson]

I think the. The consensus number two guy is going to be Ty Simpson from Bama. I don't know how I feel because on one hand he had a couple good ones. He, frankly, I think Ty Simpson's the face of like, why a quarterback maybe shouldn't be so loyal in the Nil era because he actually did the I'm going to wait my term and then play at Bama. And then he did and now he's just like a. I think he's 22 and he's played 12 or 14 games or whatever. So he doesn't have much experience. But he's old again. Ty Simpson, if he went back to Alabama, I don't think he'd play.

[DK]

He's 23.

[Danny Heiferson]

23. And if he went back to Bama, they have a 6, 6 Justin Herbert clone who's going to play there. So I don't like that he's entering the draft because he couldn't go back to Bama. And I, they were playing Oklahoma in the college football opening round. And John Matier, who's a quarterback at Oklahoma, who I love, he had thumb surgery in the middle of October. And I remember watching Bama Oklahoma, and my intrusive thought when Bam was on offense was like, wait, which quarterback had surgery on their throwing hand this year? Like Ty Simpson, like Chris Fowler during the game was like, I think Ty Simpson's brain is fried.

[Craig]

Oh God.

[DK]

And I'm just Seeing ghosts out there.

[Danny Heiferson]

We're sure that this guy's going to be the number two quarterback in this class. When I'm like, I watched Trinidad Shambliss at Ole Miss, and I'm like, I kind of think he's the number two guy. And everyone's afraid to say it because he was playing freaking Division 2, Division 3 football, whatever. Before Lane Kiffin found him, I watched Trinidad play. I kind of just thought he was 5 9. Apparently, I guess he's pretending to be 6 1. I don't know how really tall he is. He. He's suing Ole Miss to go back to school. And my intrusive thought is that if he has to enter the draft, I'm like, part of me thinks Trinidad is better than Dante Moore, which I know is not true, but I keep wondering about those two guys.

[Craig]

Is he. So he's listed at six one, which doesn't seem right. Is he. Is he five nine?

[Danny Heiferson]

If Diego Pavi is five nine, what was he listed at in college?

[DK]

Six foot?

[Danny Heiferson]

Yeah. I don't know, but. I don't know. I keep wondering if Shambless goes back to school. I. I don't know. We'll see. But I. I don't love any of these guys. But I didn't love Jackson's art as obviously, he's incredible now, but I don't know, dk, if there was a guy that Tyler Shock also was a late second or early second rounder that ended up clearly as a starting quarterback now, I think for the Saints, at least next year. You've always liked Garrett Nussmeier at lsu.

[DK]

I have. He's. I think he's. It's him and Simpson, to me, that are going to be the guys during this process that probably get pushed up. And then we'll see what happens with Trinidad Chambliss in terms of whether he actually gets into the draft or not or is forced into the draft because he's trying to go back.

[Danny Heiferson]

Modern college football is quarterback suing to go back, sue to make more money.

[DK]

He's suing.

[Danny Heiferson]

He'll make more money.

[Craig]

I get it, man. Never leave.

[DK]

Yeah. It's like Van Wilder.

[Danny Heiferson]

Don't we all wish we could sue to go back to college?

[Craig]

I would kill.

[DK]

I think it's such a funny class because Ty Simpson, I. He graduated before he started a game for Alabama, and he's already 23 years old. He's 23 with one year of starting experience, and he has 15 total starts. I mean, in his college career.

[Craig]

That's kind of all I need to hear.

[Danny Heiferson]

Yeah, I, I, I don't, I don't.

[DK]

I But yeah, also people are going to talk him up during this process, Craig, because as a, as you know processing he's like relatively polished. Especially for a guy with that few of starts in the, in his career. He's relatively polished. Like you see him make, you know, NFL style throws. His footwork is pretty good most of the time when he plays on balance. And I think the same it's, you could say a lot of the similar things about Garrett Nussmeier. He, his dad is a coach in the NFL, all that stuff with pedigree and grew up as a coach's son, blah, blah, blah. I think teams will like that he's going to be more I think ready for some of the mental stuff that comes with going into the NFL in terms of like he just kind of knows what to expect because his dad is literally a coach in the NFL.

[Craig]

And not only that, he's a quarterbacks coach and he was the quarterbacks coach for Dallas under Mike McCarthy.

[DK]

There we go. So yeah, so I think to me Nussmeier is the most interesting one. I mean I think Ty Simpson will probably be the quarterback too. He'll, he has a chance to go in the first round but in terms.

[Danny Heiferson]

Of fly demand thing, it's like someone's going to talk 100.

[DK]

But I think Nuss Meyer would be the other guy that I'm probably most interested in. The both him and Simpson a little bit smaller. I think Nussmeier, what I've seen is listed at like 61205 ish. Well, he was at the Senior Bowl. What was his measure at the Senior Bowl?

[Craig]

But wasn't Nussmeyer like last year? People thought Nussmeier was going to be a top five pick in the draft.

[Danny Heiferson]

Nussmeier was a guy that I think in September of like last year people were wondering. Yeah. If he would be a top five pick. Absolutely. Like he may. Oh, would it be him or Cam Ward? Like maybe he would come out and then he just hasn't played as well ever since then. And he ended up going back to school.

[Craig]

He got hurt, right?

[Danny Heiferson]

Yeah, I mean there's, yeah, he got hurt. I mean I think he was bench during Bama. Like he didn't play very well versus Bama which you know, like again, I think you are disproportionately waiting games versus better competition. It's not good that LSU played Bama. They bench Garrett Nussmeier like that's not ideal. I, I don't know man. All these quarterbacks are flawed. It's weird. You're trying to be open mind. It's easy to like. The truth is it's easy to poke holes in all these guys. Like Diego Pavi is 5 9k club. Nick at Clemson just doesn't have really special trades like Carson Beck. I, I don't like him personally. Like I, you know what I mean?

[Craig]

I just, I don't like, I don't care for Joe.

[Danny Heiferson]

I don't like too many of his Snapchats of him. I don't know how many different snapchats have to be like come across my timeline until I'm like, I don't know about this guy. So it's, it's easy to poke holes but I think you want to be more open minded. But Simpson will go late first and I, we'll see. It's a weird class.

[DK]

If I had to sort of predict what will happen with this class is Mendoza will go first overall. Simpson will be on that round one, two sort of tier or whatever. He might go late round one if someone wants to take a chance on him, get that 50 year option or whatever. But probably round two and then you get like Nussmeier and whoever else. All these other guys that we've mentioned probably third round ish or more and then. But I bet we'll see. I bet we'll see Nessmeyer start a game in like two or three years. You know what I mean? Just because that's kind of just like the development arc I could see for him. It's kind of like that year where we had Pickett come in and Malik Willis and some of these other guys that eventually did end up on the field. But yeah, that'd probably be how I predict what happens here. I don't think, I think outside Mendoza you got no day one starters.

[Craig]

The only guy we haven't really mentioned is Drew Aller, the Penn State quarterback who broke his ankle and missed a.

[DK]

Lot of the year.

[Craig]

Drew Eller. I remember last year watching the College Football Playoff. I think it was Penn State, Notre Dame, did they lose to Notre Dame? And he didn't play great. But I remember going into that it was like this guy's a freak. He's 65 can an arm weirdly mobile for his size. Like the highlights of him, like the highs for Drew Aller. If you just watch the highlights of him, the dude looks incredible. But then I know under the hood it's like the footwork's A mess and there's a lot going on there. But I remember last year being like, oh, the Steelers are going to bottom out and they're going to have a top 10 pick in the draft and I want Drew Aller. And the Penn State season went completely down the drain this year and Penn State does not have a great track record at quarterback. Kerry Collins. It's like there's not much outside of that. TK, what is your initial read on Aller? And do you think there's any chance someone talks themselves into his freak trait? 6, 5, 40 cannon arm.

[DK]

Of course, of course. He, again, he'll probably go like third, fourth round or something like that. But yeah, I mean, this is a guy with really great tools that just need to be developed. And so my guess is he'll sit behind somebody for a year or two and then see how it goes, see if he can get onto the field. But, but yeah, I mean, he was a five star guy. Like you said, six, five, big guy with good athleticism, good arm. Somebody's going to want to come like, bring that in and try and develop that.

[Craig]

You, I, I tell you, you, you watch like a three, five minute montage of the best Drew Aller throws and you're like, this should be the number one pick of the draft.

[DK]

It kind of reminds me of like Joe Milton a little bit where you're betting on sort of the traits, but the, the floor is like terrible, you.

[Craig]

Know, but the later you get in the draft when you're in the fourth, fifth round.

[DK]

Right.

[Craig]

The risk reward becomes higher. Um, all right, should we move on to, I, I, I feel like we should talk about your, your top five picks in the draft. And I want you to kind of go through them and just introduce them to people who don't necessarily know who they are. Not saying that's me, but for all the people out there who don't know.

[DK]

Theoretically, if someone needed to be introduced.

[Craig]

Yeah, like if there was a guy out there named Keldrick Falk and like, I wanted to know who that was, that would be helpful. So.

[DK]

Yeah, yeah, I can you give us.

[Craig]

So you have Mendoza one, so we can skip past him. You have him going to the Raiders, number two, Arvell Reese to the Jets. Well, hold on.

[DK]

We got, that's my mock draft. My, my big board.

[Craig]

Sorry? Big board. Okay.

[DK]

Big board is Caleb Downs is number two, but Arvel Reese is number three.

[Danny Heiferson]

Dot com.

[DK]

Yeah, that's right.

[Craig]

Okay. Yeah, so let's do, let's do Caleb Downs. This is your favorite Player in the draft.

[Danny Heiferson]

I love Caleb Downs. I, I just, I love Caleb Downs. I, it's, he reminds me in a way of Kyle Hamilton where during college football season everyone's like, he's the best player in college football, the best defender. And then you go into the draft and everyone's like, wait, you can't take him because he's a safety. And you're like, oh, that's weird. Okay, so who's the best player in the draft? You're like, probably Kyle Hamilton. You can't take him though. You're like, oh, okay. And then the draft, he's an all pro and the Ravens got him.

[Craig]

He's essential to the Ravens defense and.

[Danny Heiferson]

Like maybe defensive player of the year, who knows? And that reminds me of Caleb Downs. People are like, you can't including me. I'm like the Giants of five. I'm like, I would take Caleb Downs, but I'm probably get a right tackle though. But he's just, Caleb Down's been the best defender college football for two years and there's so much about. He's Josh Downs's brother. First of all, he's Josh Downs, his younger brother. His uncle is Dre Blythe, who, if you know, you know, he was like a 95 cornerback in Madden 20 years ago. I just think Caleb Downs is the smartest and most talented and most versatile safety. He's per, like I'm stealing a line from Nick Baumgartner at the Athletic who called Caleb Downs somewhere between Ed Reed and Brian Branch, which I think is actually pretty perfect.

[DK]

The first, I think the first person I thought of was Brian Branch, but Cale Downs is more athletic and sort of more juice as an athlete.

[Danny Heiferson]

The iq, he's the smartest and most prepared defenses. But I just, I don't know, I can't say enough about him. I, the simplest way to talk about Caleb Downs and I, I, I will wax poetic about it, but it's, he was, he went to Bama to play for Nick Saban, who's obviously the defensive backs guy. And he, Caleb Downs was the first freshman to ever lead Alabama in tackles as a freshman. And then he, Nick Saban retires and Caleb Downs is like, well, I didn't come to play for not Nick Saban. So he transfers to Ohio State and that, and that's the year they win the national championship. So that Ohio State team that won the championship sent 14 guys to the NFL draft last year and they're sending another, what, 10 this year, like six of the first rounders. This year gonna be Ohio State. So a ridiculously talented team that Caleb Downs went to last year, you know who called the coin toss for the national champions in the. Before the game, fucking Caleb Downs before Notre Dame. He had transferred there like, he had been there for, like, one off season, and he's calling the coin toss. Do you know how much respect you have to get, like, the leadership, it's all the intangibles. Like, that's data. It's not treated as data, but that is like, the team saw every play from every player, and they're like, he's calling the coin toss today. I just, on top of all the tape where everyone's going to tell you is the best safety by far. So I love Caleb Downs. No one knows where he's going to go because he's a safety, but I. He's my favorite player.

[Craig]

It's.

[DK]

It's. It's so interesting because he's a safety, but he's also, you know, he's a. He's a do it all kind of defender. Like, he blitzes, he covers, he can defend the run. He's very instinctive. His, His. You know, he's always around the ball. He has like a stat. He just fills up the stat sheet because he just has these incredible instincts. He's such a good athlete, plays with anticipation. So I was gonna say he's a safety, but, like, he's really like a nickelback. He can come in and play in the box like a linebacker. He can play up on the line as a blitzer. He can do kind of a lot of different things. So it is just one of those questions of how. How much the NFL is going to take into account that this is a less valuable position, gets paid less than some of these other, like edge or tackle or whatever, and try and decide whether they think it's worth going up that high. I remember the Seahawks took Devin Witherspoon a few years ago at, I think it was sixth overall. And I'm like, just take, like, who cares? Take him top 10. I mean, Devin Witherspoon is a nickel. He's basically doing the same thing Downs can do in the NFL.

[Danny Heiferson]

Guess what? Devin Witherspoon is the embodiment of how the Seattle Seahawks play football. Like, Mike, Shawn Duger had a great on Jackson Bevin's pod, the Cigar Thoughts covering the Seahawks. And Mike, Shawn Duger just wrote a book about Legion of Boom. And he covers the Seahawks every day for the Athletic. And he was saying that if you want to understand how Mike McDonald wants the Seahawks to play football. You watch Devin Witherspoon play and he's the embodiment of everything. And in theory, on paper, it's not a valuable position.

[DK]

Sure.

[Danny Heiferson]

That doesn't, that's stupid. That doesn't mean anything. It's like that was the conventional wisdom. But in reality he, like modern nickel cornerbacks, is basically just mean. You're the guy covering the slot receiver. You're the bridge between pass defense and run defense and the ability to do both is everything. Caleb down, it's not valuable in terms of payment and everything. It's. There are the top end pay of a, of a salary of a. Of a position is not necessarily indicative of how valuable the position is. Like, that's just true. Quarterbacks are worth more. Like some positions are probably worth less. Defensive tackle, safeties are not paid as much as they're actually worth. And it's also doesn't account for supply and demand. And this defensive tackle, same thing. But I'm like, you can't find players like Caleb Downs all the time. And like that's an interesting thing we'll get into I'm sure over the course of the next few months too, which is edge rushers get paid more if they're really good and get sacks. But there's a lot of edge rushers in this draft. How many other good players? I don't know. It's an interesting thing, but there's also.

[DK]

Just more variance with a lot of these other positions. There's so much more variance with tackle. You know what I mean? This guy might totally just suck at the NFL level. So think about how many top 10 tackle picks they've been taken because they have a lot of potential or they have good athleticism and just need to be like clean up their.

[Craig]

But yeah.

[DK]

Footwork or whatever.

[Craig]

Down just like safer.

[DK]

Yes. I think he's, he's safer as a hobby.

[Craig]

Saying fantasy, it's like you don't, you can't, you can't win your draft in the first round, but you can lose it.

[DK]

Yeah.

[Danny Heiferson]

Caleb, he's going to make your secondary better if you take Caleb down. So here's my question for you, dk.

[DK]

Yeah.

[Danny Heiferson]

I want to ask you about Arvel Reese because I don't know how I feel about him. Like he's your comparison to the draft guy is Jihad Campbell and you know, also people compared. I think you've also talked to me. He's kind of like Zach Bond where the idea of he's a linebacker who can be an Edge rusher. He's an edge rusher who could be a linebacker. He can go back. He's very modern player. And I don't know how I feel about him because I think if Arvel Reese went to the Seattle Seahawks, he actually would win defensive player of the year before his rookie contract because he's the embodiment of modern defense. He can be anything. I also kind of feel like if Arvel Reese goes to the jets and Aaron Glenn doesn't have a vision for him, Aaron Glenn will be fired before Thanksgiving.

[DK]

Yeah.

[Danny Heiferson]

And so do you think Arville Reese is.

[Craig]

And you do have him going to the jets second overall rip?

[DK]

I don't know.

[Danny Heiferson]

But is he like the highest ceiling player, but like, also probably a lower floor than usually happens for a player who could go that high.

[DK]

Right. So I think last year I had Jihad Campbell in my top 10, and he ended up playing mostly off the ball, if I'm correct. This year, he like, he. He's the type of player, Jihad Campbell and Arvell Reese, where you kind of have to project where they're going to play at the next level before you can really figure out what their. What their overall value is. I think Reese has the skill set to play on the edge as a. As a dedicated pass rusher. And, And I don't. You know, you never want to, like, compare anybody to Micah Parsons, but like, it's kind of the same question, same same discussion we were having with him coming out. It's like, is he going to play off the ball or is he going to be on the edge? Or both. Jalen Walker last year for the, for the Falcons is kind of the same guy, but. But Reese is way longer and, and bigger and more explosive, I think. So what I'm getting to is basically this can be the type of player, quote, unquote, tweener, where the NFL can screw it up. But I just think Reese has such a high ceiling because he's such a loose, springy, explosive athlete. He. His. He's just scratching the surface of what he can do as a edge rusher, but he can also play off the ball. He's only 20 years old, so there's a ton of development arc there for him. He's just. He's just a really, really exciting player to watch.

[Danny Heiferson]

He's a monster.

[DK]

Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, think. Think Jalen Walker slash Jihad Campbell. And it just kind of depends on how they deploy him in the NFL. But I think he has a higher ceiling than both of those guys just because he's longer and more athletic.

[Craig]

You have Mendoza going one to the Raiders. You have Arville Reese going number two to the Jets. The Cardinals have the third pick in the draft. They don't have a head coach. I don't know if they have a quarterback.

[DK]

It's probably going to be Clint Kubiak. By the way, Cardinals are Raiders.

[Craig]

What a bummer. You get them for one year.

[DK]

I know.

[Danny Heiferson]

Oh, bummer. They went with the Super Bowl. Let's shut the up. What are you talking about?

[Craig]

It's a bummer for them when he leaves. They're going to be sad.

[DK]

I'm going to ignore, I'm going to ignore Heifetz and thank you, Craig.

[Danny Heiferson]

You have the Super Bowl. You get over it.

[DK]

I'll survive.

[Craig]

The Cardinals are the third pick. You have them taking an offensive tackle out of Miami whose last name I can't pronounce. Can you, can you do that for me?

[DK]

Ma Yoga, I believe Francis Ma Yoga. Yeah, I could. I mean obviously I could be messing that up. But he is, how good is he.

[Craig]

On the tackle scale? Is he like freak all time tackle or just pretty good?

[DK]

I would not say freak all time. I think there's questions of his length. This is, I feel like it's going to be a broken record during this is. There's one question about it. Is he, is he long enough to be a tackle? Does he have foot speed to be a tackle? Some teams might see him as a guard. Spencer Fano from Utah is, is another tackle that's potentially going to be the top guy taken. He's, he mainly played at the right side at Utah. So that kind of throws into question whether he's worth the top five top ten pick. I, I put Maloga up top just because he's an ass kicker. He just plays so physical, tough, dependable. I think he's got a really good feel for, for blocking and sense like you see him so many times where at the snap if he doesn't immediately get someone threatening the high side, he'll like pinch down and help a guy out a little bit before he kind of picks up another guy. Looping around. Just has a really good feel for blocking and where he should be in positioning and he's really battle tested. He's you know, a big, really like well built guy in terms of his physical stature and so I just, I think he's got a really, really high floor. I think the problem is some people might, some teams may not see him as like a tackle at the next level.

[Craig]

Is this a good O line class. Are the trenches deep?

[DK]

I think so. I think there's, there's some really exciting defensive tackles, there's some really exciting offensive linemen and there's a lot of edge players in this class. So yeah, I think this is a.

[Danny Heiferson]

Great class for yeah trenches, defensive line, defense tackles, offensive tackles if you need eat your vegetables. And then there's also like weird bespoke things that you need to eat like running backs or safeties and stuff.

[DK]

Right.

[Danny Heiferson]

Quarterback, you're kind of out of lucky you're not the Raiders. Dk, you mentioned defensive tackles. I kind of just want to ask you, you compared Peter woods, the Clemson guy to Shia Lou the worm from Dude.

[DK]

Yeah, this was just so I can get Craig to do this. Shy hallude shy aloud.

[Craig]

It's the greatest video of all time.

[DK]

Your friendly Iraqis Sandworm.

[Craig]

They call him Mudeep Mudib. Your little desert mouse.

[DK]

The Bene Gesserit. Nasty women.

[Craig]

Nasty women trying to wage a holy war.

[DK]

Yeah, no, I. The.

[Craig]

So he's the, he's the dune worm.

[DK]

Yeah. I also threw in like take him first a gratuitous like he's attract definitely.

[Danny Heiferson]

Draft the dune worm.

[Craig]

And of course you have the fucking dune worm going to the Chiefs. Great.

[DK]

Great. Real original Craig. He's attracted to the rhythmic drop back steps of the quarterback. That was, I felt like that was my. Nice. Yeah, that was the best part. He's. He's an interesting one because coming into the season I think a lot of people had him as one of the top players in this class. And then him along with a lot of the play, the defensive players on Clemson did not have a very good season and so he's dropped off a bit. There's I think question marks of just like effort and everything and mailing it in this last season. But he's, he's really explosive. Kind of just like a rotund, wide bodied, explosive guy in the middle of the field with really good twitch, really good lateral agility. Has a ton of upside as a pass rusher. But there's just questions over why the production fell off this last season.

[Craig]

All right, dk, so your fourth pick in the draft. I wanted your top five. In the mock you have Keldrick Falk, a man like I said earlier, I don't know who that is going to the Titans.

[DK]

Right.

[Craig]

Is there anything that I should know about this man?

[DK]

He reminds me of Trayvon Walker from a couple years ago who ended up going first overall to the Jags and.

[Craig]

Who kind of worked out slow.

[DK]

It's been good. And I think this is kind of what you were talking about with Falk, where it's. You see the, the measurables. He's this big, long, really powerful player who the production doesn't quite meet all the attributes. He's a young player. He's still ascending. I think the NFL is going to look at this guy and be like, man, we can turn him into a monster. But there's going to be a lot of question marks throughout the draft process of like, okay, well, why didn't we see more production in college? Why is the twitch not quite there in terms of his get off at the snap, things like that. But he is a big, physical, you know, prototypical defensive end type of guy in terms of his, his athletic traits. And so I think he's the type of player probably get pushed up just because of what the upside is there. But I think there's going to be, again, the question marks are going to be like, okay, so why didn't the production happen in college kind of deal?

[Danny Heiferson]

I just thought of a new test. It's the Kurt Signetti test, which is, could this guy play for Indiana next year? And what I mean by that is the whole, like, kurtzaghetti doesn't recruit potential. He recruits production. It doesn't have to be counting stats, but just, do you win reps or is there a feeling you could win reps in the future? And part of me is like, if Kurt Signetti for next year's Indiana team could pick between, like, David Bailey or Kendrick fault, he would pick David Bailey.

[DK]

Yes.

[Danny Heiferson]

And part of me, I don't know, I kind of just want to do a Signetti test sometimes on guys because it can't be good.

[DK]

Yeah, it is a. That is a good, I think, example because I actually have Bailey ranked higher than Falk. But I think people in the NFL are going to look at Falk and be like, man, what could this guy be?

[Craig]

He could be.

[Danny Heiferson]

Think about what he could be.

[DK]

He could be a boat.

[Craig]

I love the old school. Like, was he good in college? I'll take him.

[DK]

Right? And that's. And I mean, look, a couple of years ago, it was Aiden Hutchinson versus Trayvon Walker.

[Danny Heiferson]

Yes.

[DK]

And everyone was like, aiden Hutchinson was one of the most productive motherfuckers in college and why is he not going above Trevor Walker?

[Danny Heiferson]

But his arms are short. Trayvon Walker's arms are really long.

[DK]

Turns out Aiden Hutchinson, pretty good pick for the Lions and I would say far, far superior production in the NFL. So, you know, but There are examples of the inverse on that, where the guy who's in college, not a ton of production, but lots of traits, ends up being a total monster at the next level. So I think you could make. You could pick out examples of both arguments there and.

[Craig]

Okay, so now I want to talk about the Giants at five because I've seen your mock. A lot of mocks are giving the Giants a wide receiver. Do you agree with that, Hyvin? They just spent the 6 overall pick on Malik neighbors two years ago. You want to spend the fifth overall pick on another wide receiver?

[Danny Heiferson]

No, I hate it. I'm sorry, dk. It's not you. It's. Everybody is giving the Giants receiver this pick, and it makes me want to tear my hair out.

[Craig]

I don't really understand.

[Danny Heiferson]

It's just cool. It's just cool to do because you could be like, Jackson Dart with Malik Neighbors and Carnell Tate, and like, that is awesome. It would be sick. And I would talk myself into it in seven seconds. It's like, well, this is the greatest thing that's ever happened. But I. I've been really confused that the mock industrial complex is like Giants in the receiver. I'm like, the Giants need a right tackle. Like, the offensive line's fine, but, like, Jermaine Elementor is an office. I don't know. I want to red tackle. Also Andrew Thomas, the left tackle, kind of gets hurt a lot. I'm like, I want to tackle for Jackson Dart. And if we can't get that, like, edge, I get why the Giants might not take a David Bailey because they just have Abzell Carter, they have Brian Burns, and, you know, Thibodeau, if you need leaves, I want Caleb Downs here. Or honestly, I want. I want, like, Spencer Fano, the tackle from Utah or, like, if Mario is here at Miami, Like, I. You have to eat your vegetables.

[DK]

I do think it's interesting coming from a guy who had an aneurysm because they let little Jordan Humphrey go to the Broncos.

[Danny Heiferson]

Well, yeah, but.

[DK]

Go ahead.

[Danny Heiferson]

Point, though, is that, like, Jordan, like, why? In all seriousness, when was the last time a number. Is cardinal tape better than lick Neighbors?

[DK]

No.

[Danny Heiferson]

So when was the last time a number two receiver was taken in the top five of a draft? It just feels like a number two receiver.

[DK]

Devontae Smith, he was like, sixth or seventh, but.

[Danny Heiferson]

Yeah, yeah, that'd be fair. He was 12th, but, like, t. Or 10th. The Eagles jumped the Giants for it. But, like, T. Higgins is great. He was the 33rd pick. I think I just. It's nothing to do with. It's nothing to do with. Everyone thinks this. I'm probably wrong. I just look at it like supply and demand. There's a lot of great.

[DK]

I was looking at this like this is the best available player.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[DK]

And it's going to help his quarterback.

[Craig]

I agree though.

[DK]

Like, Wandell Robinson had a thousand yards. He was the top receiver for this team last year. We can't guarantee 100 that Malik neighbors will be back fully healthy next year.

[Danny Heiferson]

No, I know. And that's fair. I just, I just like if you want Jackson Dart to protect and it's not you, it's just like the Ravens when the only time they ever had a top 10 pick, I think with John Harbaugh, they took Ronnie Stanley and I'm like, I would, I would like a Ronnie Stan. I would like a tackle for 10 years. That's just the way, like, you shouldn't be here again. I'm tired of being here. I'd like to leave with an offensive lineman.

[Craig]

Yeah. The giants have the 37th pick as well. It's like take a receiver then. Although, I don't know, maybe you take Carnell Tate in the in fifth overall and then you see the two of them on the field together in training camp and you get excited.

[DK]

I don't know. Maybe. Yeah.

[Danny Heiferson]

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[Craig]

TK I want to talk a little bit about some wide receivers, but I before we move off, Carnell Tate, the guy we just argued about, your comp for him is Tony Hawk's pro skater, right?

[DK]

Do you remember the game? Did you play that game?

[Craig]

I did.

[DK]

Or do you remember the skateboarder, the real person?

[Craig]

I'm familiar with Tony Hawk as a human and I did play the game as well.

[DK]

Nice. Basically, he's tall, kind of gangly. Colonel Tate is tall, kind of gangly. Also Tony Hawk, tall, kind of gangly, has a weird, almost unnatural ability to twist and turn and contort in the air and land on his feet. Um, so I was, I kept watching Carnell Tate like catch these back shoulder spinning pirouette catches in the end zone and I was like, man, it looks like he's doing like a 1080 on the, on the half pipe, Tony Hawk style. Um, so. And also I just wanted to throw, throw a shout out to Tony Hawk, pro skater, great game.

[Craig]

Which was your favorite one?

[DK]

The first one. I don't know, how many did they have?

[Danny Heiferson]

What was the one where you could build the half pipes and you could like build your own skate park? It was kind of like before Halo did. You could build them.

[DK]

I never made it that far. I played the first one religiously and that was Dude.

[Danny Heiferson]

Oh, whatever. The Tony Hawk one is where you meet Bam Margera in Barcelona and you're like skating around Barcelona and then you can build your own half pipes. That was like, that was revolutionary.

[DK]

The music on Tony Hawk's Pro Skater Lincoln Park.

[Danny Heiferson]

Right?

[DK]

Yeah.

[Craig]

I think I played Pro Skater 3 the most. And maybe Underground 2. But I do remember, dude, those early days. I remember playing Madden and Tony Hawk and like the early aughts. The soundtracks were so good. Oh yeah, I remember that, that song. The Ace of Spades.

[Danny Heiferson]

The Ace of Spades.

[Craig]

Remember that song? No Banger I think that song's very famous.

[Danny Heiferson]

I probably was exposed to Link.

[Craig]

It's Motorhead.

[Danny Heiferson]

I'm through Tony Park. Tony Hawk's games.

[DK]

It's Motorhead.

[Danny Heiferson]

Anyway, what's Tony Hawk up to?

[DK]

He's still just chilling.

[Craig]

He's still kind of skating.

[Danny Heiferson]

Do you think we can get him on the show maybe and evaluate Carnell Tate's tape? Yeah, speaking of Carnell Tate, every time he scores a touchdown, Gus Johnson would be like Garnell Tate, Taters home run hitter.

[Craig]

It's pretty great.

[Danny Heiferson]

Tater from Tate.

[DK]

Tate is sick, you guys. When you guys.

[Danny Heiferson]

Giants should take him.

[DK]

Actually they should take him. He'd be great for a young quarterback. Wow.

[Craig]

All these songs are now coming back to me.

[Danny Heiferson]

What are they?

[Craig]

Well, I'm trying to find the names of these songs. Oh yeah. Del the funky Homo Sapien. If you must was on whatever. Tony Hawk, pro skater I played man. Good song.

[DK]

There was. There was some Superman by Goldfinger is the one that really comes to mind. To my mind first. Here I am. Just like takes me back there. Mellon Colin. No cigar. Some great ones.

[Craig]

Okay, other wide receivers to talk about. It's a good wide receiver class. Dk, can you break down like we have guys like Jordan Tyson, we have Makai Lemon. Would you say this is an above average, you know, top tier of wide receivers or would you say it's just.

[DK]

Okay, I think it's a good class. I think there's a handful of really good players. I have I think seven guys in my top 32 right now.

[Craig]

That's a lot.

[DK]

Or six. No, six. So yeah, I mean I think it's. It's a very good class. I would not say it's like a super elite class because like you said, the Carnell Tate thing, he's probably a number two receiver at the next level though. He could be number one. Makai Lemon, a little bit undersized, but super explosive, super twitchy in the short area run after the catch. A lot of people have like.

[Craig]

So you have your best guys and number two receiver in the NFL, which means all of these wide receivers, none of them in your opinion are number ones.

[DK]

I don't think there's anybody to the level of, you know, kind of like a neighbors thing where he's going to be a true number one superstar receiver like Jamar Chase type of player. But you have a lot of really good. Yeah like number two type players. So I would say it's a good class. Not a great class, but there's plenty of players in this class that I really like. Makai Lemon from usc. I think he won the bullet in a cuff a lot. I've seen people compare him to Steve, Steve Smith senior, which came to my mind. I come to him, to Doug Baldwin, because of what he does in the air. He just catches passes that he has no business catching. He'll go up high, you know, in traffic, there's two guys around him, and he'll pull it down and somehow land and catch the ball. Run after the catch. He's really twitchy. Kind of turns into a running back after the catch. Going down the list here, Jordan Tyson from Arizona State. He's a twitchy athlete, big guy. I comped him to Christian Watson type of player where big plays down the field, big frame kind of deal. Kevin or Casey Concepcion from Texas A and M. Super fun player. My comp for him is Khalil Shakir in terms of just really good body control. Makes some incredible catches, run after the catch. Big time playmaker. He played on the outside a lot though this last year, so I think he kind of answered some questions whether it's just a slot.

[Craig]

Only this is interesting because, like, you're talking about these guys and you're comparing them to like Khalil Shakir, Christian Watson. I'm like Doug Baldwin. All right.

[DK]

That doesn't get you going?

[Craig]

I don't know. These are first round picks.

[Danny Heiferson]

I mean, even so, Baldwin was undrafted.

[DK]

Yeah, but what did he do in the NFL? He had a thousand yards his first season.

[Craig]

Yeah, but if you knew you were getting Doug Baldwin, would you draft him in the first round?

[DK]

Yeah.

[Craig]

You think so?

[DK]

Oh, yeah. 100.

[Craig]

Oh, I don't, I, I don't know. If you knew you were getting Doug Baldwin's.

[Danny Heiferson]

I don't, I don't know.

[DK]

First round, you wouldn't take him at all in the first round. Have you seen some of the dog players come out of the first round?

[Craig]

I don't think I would. I think that's too low of a ceiling.

[DK]

Are you kidding me? No.

[Craig]

Doug Baldwin, Doug Bolden was like a solid receiver.

[DK]

He had three seasons. He had two seasons over a thousand yards. He had 14 touchdowns in 2015.

[Craig]

No, 2, 21000 yard seasons. I'm not taking that.

[DK]

And another 900 yard season. He had 6000 yards in his career. No, I don't know. I would take that in the first round.

[Craig]

You have Seahawks bias. You like him?

[Danny Heiferson]

Yeah. Jackson, Smith and Jigba also went in the first round and he had more yards than Doug Baldwin did in like his first three years combined this year.

[DK]

Okay, if you guys don't want to take him in the first round, I.

[Craig]

Wouldn'T take, I wouldn't take Khalil Shakir.

[DK]

You guys can take some rando guy in the first round.

[Danny Heiferson]

Back to whether we think this class sucks or if we're just nostalgic for 2027 or if it's nil because there's receiver's probably one of the deeper ones, but we're saying they're all numbered.

[Craig]

Yeah, I mean you have Denzel Boston, another guy from Washington. Your comp to him is Cortland Sutton. Again, good player. Don't know if I would take that in the first round.

[DK]

I think I, I think the other thing that's happening here, Craig, is I try not to compare these players to the greatest people at each of their respective positions every year. Trying to be a little bit realistic. I'm sorry that I'm not getting you.

[Danny Heiferson]

All jacked up here, but there's only one sandworm.

[Craig]

Yeah, that's right.

[DK]

I think let's be realistic that not all these guys are going to turn into 10 year all pros.

[Craig]

All right, well, speaking of Jeremiah Love, the running back out of Notre Dame who is believed to be one of the better running backs in a while. Right. And yet your comp is Travis Etienne, which gives me the ick.

[DK]

That's fair. Have you ever looked at Travis Etienne's stats from college?

[Craig]

Yeah, I know he was very good, but unfortunately I have thought about the last four years he's been in the NFL.

[DK]

You didn't think he was that good this year.

[Craig]

Again you have him as eight.

[DK]

He has three out of his four seasons. He went over a thousand yards.

[Craig]

Okay, but I don't know if Travis etn, based on what I've seen of him the last three, four years, is the eighth pick in the NFL draft.

[DK]

Yeah, I don't think. I think the Jeremiah Love hype has probably gotten a little out of hand. People.

[Danny Heiferson]

Kuiper compared Jeremiah Love to Reggie Bush, which stopped me in my fucking track.

[DK]

I can't get on the list of.

[Danny Heiferson]

People you shouldn't compare anyone to.

[Craig]

Is this like a classic? There's no one else. So we just end up hyping up the person who's at the top?

[DK]

No, I think he's good. I think he's a very good player. He's explosive, you know, dual threat. He's good in the passing game. He's a very good player, but he's not on the level of some of these elite running backs that I, in my opinion, you know, like the Bijan and Saquon and Gibbs and some of these guys that have come out over the last couple years, I would not put him on that tier.

[Danny Heiferson]

I, I will say I kind of get how the Reggie Bush thing gets evoked because Jeremiah Love hurdles people a lot and he does spin moves a lot and the receiving is unbelievable. Like the hands, he's like this one handed catch that was pretty amazing. And I think he has the size to run in between the tackles. I mean it's kind of thin. He's like, I don't know what height anyone is until they go to the combine.

[DK]

I, I don't, I'm not, he's not, he's not a power running back, I would say.

[Danny Heiferson]

No, but like he can run between the tackles. But I, I, I, I do think Jeremiah Love is like a special player. I think. Can we play a fun game?

[Craig]

Sure.

[Danny Heiferson]

Dk, you do our draft guides here at the Ringer and also you do draft grades. After the draft ends, can we play a game called when will you give someone an A for taking Jeremiah Love? So like the draft grade. So like the Raiders took them first, they would get an F. Right? Because they have Jetty. Okay. The Jets.

[Craig]

Can you imagine though, kind of a one, two punch.

[Danny Heiferson]

It's like Bowers. You have Bowers and Michael Mayer and then you have like Jeremiah.

[Craig]

That'd be kind of cool. Desmond Ritter handing off to either one. You don't know which one. That'd be cool.

[Danny Heiferson]

Like the jets shouldn't take a running back. The Cardinals shouldn't take a running back. The Titans, the Giants, the Browns, the. When do you, when does a team take Jeremiah Love? Like the Saints at eight, the Chiefs at nine. People give.

[DK]

I think that's like the area where I start considering it. Yeah.

[Danny Heiferson]

I kind of think the Cowboys are going to do it at 12 and that will be the right spot. He's going to be amazing there.

[DK]

I could see that.

[Danny Heiferson]

Also the touchdown celebration because he scores and he just does. The heart is, it's, it's one of the better ones in a long time.

[Craig]

I couldn't be less interested in taking a running back now. Like, have we not learned you don't need to do it? I mean, it depends on what type.

[DK]

Of roster you have.

[Craig]

Where I just is, is that like the difference maker for Dallas like is getting a better running back than what? Javante. John D. Williams was really good last year. I'm like, yeah, well, no, they just.

[Danny Heiferson]

Want to recreate the 90s.

[DK]

This is Teams always have the they always learn the wrong lesson. Craig, you got Javante Williams on for in free agency and I mean really good.

[Craig]

Unless this guy and even Bijan Robinson who it's like he has been fun to watch on the Falcons. Has he brought them closer to winning a Super Bowl? Probably not because this is the difference.

[Danny Heiferson]

To me between like taking Caleb down to German I love is that a safety I think can still make other positions better but a running back is still dependent on five other offensive linemen to make them better. And like a running back can make people better once the floor is really really high.

[Craig]

It's like the final piece in the Thanos glove is the running back.

[Danny Heiferson]

It can't be the first one. Exactly. And so I but however the difference is this is why I think the Raiders taking Ash and Genti last year was such a mistake because the running back class was crazy deep last year. So like would the Raiders really have been better off take they could have could have took like Armen Memboo who's going to be the right tackle for the jets now and they could have took him and then gotten like Cam Scatter Boo in the fourth round. Would you rather do that or take Genti in the first of a fourth round starting tackle or fourth round guard? I think the difference is this year is it's not a deep running back class. So if you need one teams might talk themselves into it. I'm not sure where the right spot is. It's weird. But he is I do think Jeremiah Love's like legit, like awesome and in a cool way. He's also kind of an he's a quirky guy as well.

[DK]

I think explosiveness on the ground is really important and so I think I'm less. I'm less apt to be in the camp of running backs. Don't matter. It's a terrible move if you take a running back in the first round. I just think the it is very dependent on what's what else is on the roster. You know what I mean?

[Craig]

It's just funny though like if we go back and look at all the running backs taken in the top 10 in the last however many years. It's like how many of them actually. I mean like Saquon didn't do anything for the Giants.

[DK]

Bijan Robinson, Gibbs I think is the best example.

[Craig]

Yeah but Gibbs is a good example because he was. There was like an infrastructure of of right good offensive and defensive line like built around. There was like an Entire scheme, they.

[Danny Heiferson]

Had four first round picks on the offensive line. Jared Goff was the former number one overall pick and Sam Laporta was the first round pick. Or. Well, yeah, 34th, whatever.

[Craig]

Yeah, it's like you look at Genti and Bijan and Saquon, it's like none of those worked out.

[DK]

I don't know.

[Craig]

Yeah, I guess Genti could still work.

[DK]

Out if Mendoza's got good, but I think that's fair. I mean, look at. Yeah, I'm going back. Naji for the Steelers. No, didn't really make an impact.

[Craig]

Well, nice guy.

[DK]

Clyde Edwards H for the Chiefs.

[Danny Heiferson]

That didn't go over well over T.

[DK]

Higgins, but he was just.

[Craig]

No, he just wasn't good. Yeah, yeah.

[DK]

Don't let your quarterback pick running backs.

[Danny Heiferson]

The.

[DK]

Josh Jacobs was drafted by the Raiders in the first round. He wasn't good till he left. Well, he was really good actually, like in his third year. But.

[Danny Heiferson]

But one year I said he'd be bad. He was great. Right, Right. That was pretty cool. The Deacon. Can I ask you. You, you. You compared Miami Edge rusher Akeem Isador to Jim Carrey playing basketball and the cable guy.

[DK]

This is like the highest compliment I can pay anyone.

[Craig]

Hype.

[Danny Heiferson]

It's.

[DK]

I compare the. I've also compared you to Jim Carrey and the cable guy. If you haven't seen the cable guy, just imagine the biggest maniac you've ever encountered in your life. He also does a great. He has a great scene where they go to medieval times and like do a fight as knights and he's like, like just a, just an absolute freaking maniac on the field. That is Akib Masador from Miami, just absolutely a game wrecker. The big problem here is he's 25 years old or he will be 25 by the time the season starts. So this is again, I mean, go back to the very beginning when HIFAS asked me if this draft class sucks and I said yes, I think generally speaking that is the right thing, that this draft class isn't very good. Craig, you kind of destroyed my dreams with the, with the receiver group there.

[Craig]

But once you told me that none of them are wide receiver ones, I.

[DK]

Was like, oh, I think it's like you have to be. You have to bear in mind that like very few classes are going to have multiple superstar receivers. You know what I mean? It isn't a thing that you get every single season. So I'm trying to be like realistic. Sure. But I see what your point is in terms of like there Is, no, I don't think there are any true prototype number ones at receiver. And then with the edge classes, there's question marks with everybody. Ruben Bane, the other Miami edge guy, super short arms. David Bailey, you know, he's a little undersized. Can we talk about 25 years old?

[Craig]

Peter woods is a worm. Like, how's that going?

[DK]

He's a sand worm.

[Danny Heiferson]

Love him, even though he's a worm. Can we talk about David Bailey?

[DK]

Yeah.

[Danny Heiferson]

So David Bailey, also known as the guy who just absolutely destroyed Oregon and, like, you know, just was everywhere in that Oregon, Texas Tech game. I love him. I think he's like the more traditional edge rusher. He could be a top five pick. I've never seen anyone that aesthetically that looks like David Bailey, like, the way he dresses for games. First of all, hand in the dirt. Defensive end Craig, he wears number 31. Want to start there?

[DK]

Yeah, yeah.

[Danny Heiferson]

Red flag. He's in when Texas Tech goes all black. So black helmet, black jersey, black undershirt, black pants, black shoes. He wears white socks even. I know that's kind of weird, right? No gloves.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Danny Heiferson]

Doesn't wear gloves. Don't know anything about socks. And I'm like, I would have wore black socks. No gloves. And he never tucks in his shirt, but his pants are always above his knees.

[DK]

You know who he is? He's. He's Michael Bennett. He has the exact, like, style aesthetic of Michael Bennett. Michael Bennett had no, he had negative shoulder pads. His shoulder pads came out to, like, basically his neck, and he would, he would never tuck in his jersey. He was just like. The best way I can express it is he was sort of slovenly looking, even though he was one of the best defense, like, pass rushers of his of that era. But, yeah, it was, it's freaking hilarious.

[Craig]

Hi, Fitz. Would you say that this is deliberate by David Bailey, or is he just so unbothered that he doesn't care what he looks like?

[Danny Heiferson]

I don't know when I want to ask him.

[Craig]

It's a huge. It matters.

[Danny Heiferson]

I, I, I, like if part of me is like, if he's so. It's kind of like when someone shows up to a golf course and they're wearing sneakers and cargo shorts and, like, a tucked it not shirt. Not tucked in. They're either the best player.

[DK]

They were watched in Bruins jersey.

[Craig]

Yeah. Like, if he's like, White Sox are the only clean ones in my drawer. What's the big deal? I play football. That's awesome.

[Danny Heiferson]

Yeah.

[DK]

Green flag.

[Craig]

Yeah. But if he's like I'm curating my look and this is what I find to be interesting. I'm not so sure.

[Danny Heiferson]

Yeah. If the answer is I've thought about nothing this week other than taking the soul of the man across. This is every snap. I'm like, that's all.

[DK]

This is such a great conversation, by the way, because there's. It's always funny when you see guys with seven or eight wrist, like sweat bands on their arms.

[Danny Heiferson]

I'm like, I'm out the demario overshadow.

[DK]

I'm like, that's too much. Too many armbands. Come on. How long does it take you to get ready for the game?

[Craig]

That's fair. If it takes you longer to get ready for the game than the actual minutes in the game.

[Danny Heiferson]

Problem?

[DK]

Yeah, I have a. I have a soft spot in my heart for, for Michael Bennett. Just like the, the person and the player and so, like, this doesn't bother me whatsoever. I like it, actually.

[Danny Heiferson]

Yeah.

[Craig]

All right. That felt like a good primer. Is there anything else, dk, that you feel like you need to tell our listeners about the draft this year? Any other thoughts? Remember, this is syllabus week. We're just getting started.

[DK]

Right, right, right, right. No, I think that that, that's. That covers it. I think it's a good meat and potatoes draft. There's edge players, defensive tackles, offensive linemen that are very interesting. You can make your team better. But overall, the blue chip talent at the top, not like a, not, not a class.

[Craig]

Well, on that delicious pitch, shall we move on to emails?

[DK]

Let's do it.

[Danny Heiferson]

Okay, we have to start here. Craig, so people found you on the. On all the movies and TV shows.

[Craig]

You said you couldn't remember being in on the show. I did end up remembering that. I googled and found out the Emily Dickinson one was called Wild Next with Emily, which is on YouTube. And I found myself in the first like three minutes. You can see me dancing.

[Danny Heiferson]

You just dance around. Just an extra in all these movies. And Craig, if you didn't listen to the last episode, it's. I highly recommend it. Craig just was an extra on all these movies and TV shows. Couldn't be bothered to know which one, what he was doing, couldn't name anything. So then we found you in a video. A game show. Sorry, not a video game. A game show called Divided and Cam. Will you play Craig's intro in that game show?

[Craig]

My Name's Craig. I'm 22 and I'm a sports writer from San Ramon, California. I play Basketball, baseball, football, volleyball in high school and at a 4.1 GPA day. So not only am I competitive, but I got the smarts to back it up. What is this, a dating show face? That's the worst thing I've ever heard in my life. You know what, what sucks about those stupid shows is like, they're like, you can't be on it unless you're over the top. And I remember when I was like, what, auditioning or whatever to do it, they were like, hey, you're not crazy enough. Like, the other people are all nuts and you need to ramp it up. And so, like, they told me they're like, we need you to, like, you need to bring something to the table. So, like, you're going to be Sports Guy. You're going to be like, I got the smarts. Let's do your. Because you have to send, like, a resume in and they ask for, like, notable things about you or whatever. What was your gpa? What did you study? What are you interested in?

[DK]

What was your GPA like?

[Craig]

Oh, you need to talk about how you had a 4.1 GPA and I was obviously not a sports writer. I had no job. I was 22.

[DK]

That's why. Why else would it be?

[Danny Heiferson]

I'm an actor.

[Craig]

Exactly. I'm. I'm extra. I'm an extra in things. This was pre ringer, and this was after I moved back from New York after Kimmy Schmidt. So I was like, in between. I had nothing. I was just, like, doing whatever. And so they were like, what do you do? And I was like, me and my buddies, like, right. We, like, write sports blogs for fun. Like, great. You're a freelance sports writer.

[DK]

I know the first. The first question in the show was something like, with 60 appearances on the Sports Illustrated, the COVID of Sports Illustrated, who's the most. Oh, the athlete with the most appearances. And you, you were very confident. Michael Jordan. Michael Jordan. And you're like, yeah. I mean, I'm the sports writer. You know, I'm the sports guy.

[Craig]

It's horrible. They make you. They turn you into a cartoon, and you have to.

[DK]

You turn the cockiness up to about 15. Yeah. Which I appreciated.

[Craig]

It was funny, horrible. And I think the woman ruined everything. And we. The woman to my right, I think was the one who was steadfast, that she deserved the most money, and she ended up tanking it for the. The team.

[DK]

Did she deserve the most money?

[Craig]

No.

[Danny Heiferson]

How much? So you guys had to do it. It's called Divided. Because you had to, like, Agree on it. You. Basically, the goal was to screw each.

[Craig]

Other trivia and you have to agree on every answer. But the twist at the end is you have to. Then at the end, you like how much money you've made.

[DK]

I have to negotiate.

[Craig]

You have to agree on who gets what cut of money, and you can decide between one person gets 60, 30, and 10%. So obviously it's like it doesn't even matter how much money you accrue because by the end, no one's going to agree to take 10% and you end up losing all the money. So by the end, I think I made. I. I think I made a couple hundred bucks and I didn't receive the check in the mail for nine months.

[DK]

I know. There was the other guy. The guy to your left was. I think he won one. 27, which I thought was just an insult.

[Craig]

Four taxes.

[DK]

Yeah, insultingly, it's not even worth your time.

[Craig]

That's probably my lowest point is doing the game show. I. I'm. I'm proud of everything else I've ever done.

[DK]

You hit rock bottom.

[Danny Heiferson]

You got cut out of Fast eight. That was the other one you. That was. That spawned all this. You were just like. I was in Fast and Furious, but you were in fast eight. Seems like you got cut out, though, from the nuclear football people.

[DK]

Trying to find out.

[Craig]

Yeah, the nuclear football scene.

[Danny Heiferson]

I don't know. That's what it's called on YouTube.

[Craig]

I don't know what that means.

[Danny Heiferson]

Case of nuclear codes the president carries around is called the football because you can't fumble.

[DK]

Oh, that's a real.

[Craig]

We were in Manhattan, standing on the street at like 4 in the morning on like Broadway. And it. Cars were just whipping by and we were supposed to have our phones up. So if anybody can find the. The extended cut, the snider cut of Fast eight that I'm in, let me know. I can't believe they found the game show with some random archive website. I will be impressed. The Emily Dickinson thing, you can see on YouTube if somebody could find the. The Fast 8 thing or whatever show I was in. Coming back from war or going to.

[DK]

War, I. I want to know what that is.

[Craig]

Yeah, I was in some, like, wool coat. It was so hot.

[Danny Heiferson]

Terrible.

[DK]

They used to wear wool.

[Danny Heiferson]

I can't believe you ever told us that.

[DK]

So good. Craig's Lower Maxing. Did I do that right?

[Danny Heiferson]

It was a fast date to cut me out. This episode is brought to you by taxact Tax act helps tackle taxes, guiding you step by step so you can get your maximum refund. Get tips along the way. Add Expert Assist to talk to tax experts or let our experts do your taxes for you. With Expert Full Service TaxAct helps you find the deductions and credits you deserve so you can get them over with. Visit taxact.com to learn more. Conditions apply. See taxact.com for details. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable Internet means everything for your business and even this podcast. That's why I trust Spectrum Business Business. They keep companies of all sizes connected with Internet, advanced wi, fi, phone, tv, mobile services plus 24. 7 US based support. Millions of business owners already trust Spectrum business so visit spectrum.combusiness to learn more. Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. We asked for people's most embarrassing stories ever.

[DK]

Oh, nice couple. Good ones. The the hook here was I was Bird Kelly in.

[Danny Heiferson]

Yeah, Bird Kelly middle school emails.

[Craig]

Can that be his chiron today when we start this episode when it says hi Fizz Horror. But can it say Kelly?

[DK]

That's pretty good. Also, I'm going to change all my fantasy team names to Bird Shit Kelly.

[Craig]

It's honestly kind of a cool name.

[DK]

Yeah.

[Craig]

I don't know why, but it works. Anything works with Kelly.

[DK]

That's true.

[Craig]

Shipwreck Kelly. Birdship.

[Danny Heiferson]

Shipwreck Birdship Kelly. Well, speaking of nicknames, so this one's from Jeremy. Breakfast with three cups of coffee.

[DK]

Nice. That's my speed right there.

[Danny Heiferson]

When I. Jeremy writes, when I was in third grade, we went last trip to an aquarium. They had a marine biologist talk to us and explain a bunch of fish stuff.

[DK]

Technical term.

[Craig]

It's always on field trips. That's when this goes.

[DK]

It is. I was like, this sounds so familiar.

[Craig]

You just, it's like you're at a zoo. You're at an aquarium. You just know. So you're a floor farm. Something's going wrong.

[DK]

Something's going to go awry.

[Danny Heiferson]

Jeremy writes, at one point during the marine biologist presentation at this aquarium, she asks, does anyone know what an octopus's arms are called? And I confidently raise my hand and yell, yes, they're called testicles.

[DK]

So close.

[Danny Heiferson]

So close.

[Craig]

I thought he was something else, to be honest.

[Danny Heiferson]

Well, the marine biologist says, no, no, no, they're. They're, that's not correct. They're tentacles. And then I respond and say, no, no, no, that's right. An octopus has eight testicles.

[DK]

He's, he got started at mansplaining quite early in life.

[Danny Heiferson]

So Jeremy writes that for the next five years, the marine biologist was a.

[Craig]

Woman no, no, no.

[DK]

Like, actually, that's where you're wrong. No, no.

[Craig]

Dr. Scientist.

[Danny Heiferson]

So Jeremy writes, For five years, I was called Testicle. Testicles. That's cool. That was Jeremy's nickname for five years.

[DK]

No, no, no. He doubled down on this.

[Craig]

I love that.

[DK]

I love that. I love that.

[Craig]

Also. They just called him Testicles. Hey, Testicles.

[Danny Heiferson]

He's like, kids are brutal. This email's from John. Breakfast was a raspberry fruit bar and a grape. Five Hour Energy. John writes, Five Hour Energy.

[Craig]

We're still doing those.

[Danny Heiferson]

I. Dude, you know what? I. I don't understand the Five Hour Energy thing. That guy is so rich too. That's the all. That's one of those. You're like, I could have done that. But you didn't. I'm like, I. You know, we should just sell an energy drink. John writes, my most embarrassing moment in a varsity basketball game. I scored for the other team.

[DK]

Varsity. That is. That's tough.

[Danny Heiferson]

And John, right, Varsity. It was a big game. He put all these details about the game. It was a big game. And John writes, it was not a tip in or a deflection.

[DK]

Just forgot where he was.

[Danny Heiferson]

He shot an elbow jumper at the wrong basket and drained it.

[DK]

Oh, my God.

[Danny Heiferson]

And I did.

[DK]

I feel like I did that when I was eight.

[Danny Heiferson]

But varsity, so.

[Craig]

Yeah, so John, like, Like, he snagged a defensive rebound and then just went right back up with it.

[Danny Heiferson]

I don't. I. I feel like he had to get past the ball by a teammate.

[Craig]

Right?

[Danny Heiferson]

Like, like.

[Craig]

But that would. You'd be getting past the ball probably from like the baseline, from out of bounds.

[Danny Heiferson]

I don't know. I don't know what situation. You get the ball.

[DK]

Instinct took over. Nature versus nurture.

[Craig]

Lodge, hey, he's a Hooper. If he sees a hoop, he shoots.

[DK]

Yeah, exactly.

[Danny Heiferson]

The bench, I think, was part of it. But he says there were like. He says it's a huge game. There were a few thousand people there. He said all of them were pointing.

[DK]

And laughing at me and laughing. Such a.

[Craig]

And a universal, like, Brennan has a man. Giant up. Brennan has a man.

[Danny Heiferson]

And he says, what made it worse is the refs actually to stop the game because them and the scorers didn't know how to score the play.

[DK]

So they all got this.

[Danny Heiferson]

So he hits the basket and then everyone stops the game and everyone's pointing, laughing.

[Craig]

What do we do?

[DK]

This has never happened before.

[Craig]

What do we do?

[Danny Heiferson]

So then his coach, who's like a Bobby Knight esque hard ass, was just shaking with laughter. And trying to not even let him see that he was laughing, which is kind of worse than being yelled at.

[DK]

Oh, my God.

[Danny Heiferson]

And then he says, I'm in a text chain with my high school friends. This incident comes up once every few months. I'm 43 years old. This happened 27 years ago.

[Craig]

Once every few months is a lot.

[Danny Heiferson]

43 years old, 27 years.

[DK]

This guy's my exact generation. And I love this. I can. Varsity game is tough. Yeah, I can see why that.

[Danny Heiferson]

Made the shot on the wrong basket.

[DK]

Not like a tip ball either. You're not going for the rebound and accidentally tipping in. He shot a jumper at the wrong. Oh, no. Oh, no. My worst. My worst basketball memory was I got absolutely fucking swatted in a game one time. And it was like truly pointing and laughing, and I'm like, right in front of like the. The home crowd or whatever, the away team crowd, and they just let me have it. It was. It was tough. That was my junior year.

[Danny Heiferson]

I mentioned this before, but I got roped into having to play once on the ringer league team because they were out of people and I was the fifth person, and if they didn't have five people, they would forfeit. But it was a church league or something. So if I cursed, you get ejected. If you get ejected, you lose the game. And if I lost the game, lost the season. So suddenly I went from not playing on this.

[DK]

No pressure.

[Danny Heiferson]

If you yell shit twice, the season ends. And I. That was surreal, man.

[Craig]

I feel like it's not that hard to not curse while playing basketball.

[Danny Heiferson]

I know, but when you suddenly like, no, no, this season's over. If you yell is like, that's a lot of pressure.

[Craig]

And you. But you made it.

[DK]

You did all right.

[Danny Heiferson]

I made my first three because they. I.

[Craig]

And then you should have put a mouth guard in.

[Danny Heiferson]

I should have put a mouth guarded.

[DK]

Yeah.

[Danny Heiferson]

No, we won. There was like, they had. They had a Baron Trump s 6 foot 10 lawyer who, you know, I just elbowed in the kidneys, got him to curse at me, got him ejected. I was like, I did my job.

[DK]

Oh, damn. You, like, went straight. Rodman got the other player ejected.

[Danny Heiferson]

He was like a. I can see high.

[DK]

Fitz having the Rodman Persona on the. On the court for sure.

[Craig]

I. I witnessed it in real time. Absolute pitbull out there, dude. Complimentary end fre. And you heard he's footsteps rumbling behind you.

[Danny Heiferson]

He told us my giant feet, my 4e flat feet that they can't even sell sneakers for. I actually stocked multiple fast breaks because.

[DK]

My footsteps, it was like the seal. You're like a freaking seal running around.

[Craig]

It's not worth.

[Danny Heiferson]

The audio version seems closer than it actually appears. My footsteps were so loud from my cloppy ass cloven feet that, like, Richie Bozak was missing layups because I was 30ft away, but he thought I was right on him, like LeBron James.

[Craig]

Yeah, that's Danny. Footsteps, hyphens.

[DK]

Craig, do you have any really embarrassing moments from all your times on movie sets and whatnot?

[Craig]

Well, I mean, I would say that that game show qualifies.

[DK]

Oh, the time. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Danny Heiferson]

Which one? Sorry, Cam, can you play that one again? I forget. What exactly did Chris say?

[DK]

He told his GPA he was 22 years old.

[Craig]

My name's Craig. I'm 22, and I'm a sports writer from San Ramon, California. I play basketball, Baseball. Football, volleyball. In high school. And at a 4.1 GPA. So not only am I competitive, but I got the smarts to back it up.

[DK]

Craig, is this your high school GPA or your college gpa?

[Craig]

Not my college gpa.

[DK]

How. How many years are you allowed to tell people your high school gpa?

[Craig]

I can't. I can't tell you how much that these producers of this fucking random show that I don't even know if that made it to air, were there, like, stretching to make anything work. I didn't play all those sports in high school.

[Danny Heiferson]

That's another thing you kept from us was you didn't tell us till last year you had a. You had an offer to play volleyball in college.

[Craig]

Okay, once again, it was, like, the smallest Division 3 college of the Redwoods offer.

[Danny Heiferson]

You have the fakest college, I don't think the Redwood School. You like Don Draper? Where'd you go to high school?

[DK]

He's real evasive.

[Danny Heiferson]

California high school.

[Craig]

Damn.

[Danny Heiferson]

Docs do.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Danny Heiferson]

College of the Redwoods.

[DK]

Wait, I have. I have a question. And we can cut this if Craig doesn't want this out there. Tell the story about the thing that you had to test on the set of Kimmy Schmidt.

[Craig]

Oh, I'd be happy to.

[DK]

I don't know if I can't remember if you've told this story.

[Danny Heiferson]

Never told this on the show.

[Craig]

This is cool. I don't think this is embarrassing. Okay, good.

[DK]

Well, that's great.

[Craig]

I was a PA on season three of Unbreakable. Kimmy Schmidt, the Tina Fey show with Ellie Kemper and Titus Burgess. Very funny show. Anyway, Jon Hamm, who's, like, kind of in that world, played the the guy who kidnaps Kimmy Schmidt. So he was occasionally on set. I was a pa So I was, like, in the office on set a lot. Like, almost every day. Well, there was a moment when Fred Armisen played a character who had to wet his pants in a scene. So they needed to test the P rig, and they didn't want to test it on Fred Armisen.

[Danny Heiferson]

The P rig?

[Craig]

Yeah, the P rig. They didn't want to test it on Fred Armisen because, you know, he's Fred Armisen. So they needed to. They found somebody with the same waist as him or close. And I was the 32 waist. And they're like, hey, you. You need to come downstairs and test out this P rig. And I was like, okay. So I'm down on the actual stage because that's where it was easy to, like, clean up the liquid that would spill on the floor. So I was. I would come down there. If it was, like, a couple days, I would go down for a while and test out this P rig, and it would be like, Tina Fey, Fred Armisen, and one day, just Jon Hamm just standing there kind of laughing and just watching me wet myself when they're staring at the wet spot on my crotch. That didn't look natural. Let's try that again. And I did that. That was, like, a day's work for me.

[DK]

I collected your check. Oh, my God, that's so good. So they're all just staring at your crotch.

[Danny Heiferson]

Is his belt buckle backwards? This guy put his belt in wrong.

[Craig]

Yeah, there's, like, some tube running up my leg, you know?

[DK]

Did you have to bring, like, five pairs of pants every day to, like, your pants?

[Craig]

It wasn't my own pants.

[DK]

They supplied you.

[Craig]

It's luckily a wardrobe department.

[Danny Heiferson]

Everyone's doing it.

[DK]

Yeah, your pants when you're on the set of Kimmy Schmidt.

[Craig]

So if I ever meet John Ham, I'll tell him that he watched me wet myself multiple times.

[DK]

I would love to know if he could remember that.

[Craig]

No shot. He's like, what party were we at together?

[Danny Heiferson]

I'm like.

[Craig]

Oh, my God.

[DK]

P rig. I like that. It's called a P rig. What did the P rig look like? Was it real? Real realistic?

[Craig]

Well, it was. The little device or whatever, like, wasn't connected to me, but it was just, like, a tube that was, you know, this. The little thing was like, whatever, five feet away from me, and then this tube just ran up my leg.

[Danny Heiferson]

Like a catheter.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[DK]

Amazing movie magic, folks.

[Danny Heiferson]

Emails, emails about that.

[Craig]

Mad Men is on, um. People are watching Mad Men now because. Is it on Netflix or is it on hbo?

[Danny Heiferson]

I don't even know where to find it, but I'm watching Mad Men right now.

[Craig]

There was a. There, I think on hbo there was some air. It was. There was a couple days where it was up where they uploaded the wrong version of a certain episode. It was like, not the final version. And so there's a scene where John Slattery's character has. It throws up from eating, like, he had, like, three martinis and a bunch of oysters at lunch or something. And they go back up and he throws up in a meeting. And the actual cut that's on HBO is you can see a guy on his knees standing behind John Slattery with, like, this, like, puke machine. And he's, like, standing there like a bag of it. And the tube is, like, running up John Slattery's shirt. And that's just in the cut of Mad Men.

[DK]

This is like the.

[Danny Heiferson]

Just watch that episode the other day.

[DK]

The Starbucks coffee cup in Game of Thrones or whatever.

[Craig]

Yeah, except that was, like, real. That was the final version.

[Danny Heiferson]

That was.

[DK]

Oh, my God. Cam just sent a picture of this. You could just see him pumping the po. That's hilarious.

[Danny Heiferson]

And they've even got vomit hose.

[DK]

Wow. Movie magic. Yeah. How did that get past the editors? I never understood.

[Danny Heiferson]

Honestly, I don't think I, I. This might have been the version I watched. I didn't notice because there's so much puke that comes out. You just kind of instinctively like, oh, like, kind of like look away also. God, dude. Actually, I don't want any Mad Men spoilers, but I'm having a great time watching Mad Men. We just watched the suitcase.

[Craig]

My favorite drama.

[DK]

It's.

[Danny Heiferson]

It's so good. All right, one more before we get out of here. Speaking of people drinking, this one's from Ryan.

[DK]

Our bone.

[Danny Heiferson]

Craig asked for drinks. People don't drink anymore. Ryan writes breakfast, 2 to 3 cups of black coffee, which is just. It's funny. It really has a window to your day.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Danny Heiferson]

Ryan's email is just. Dk, tell them about Mickey's grenades.

[DK]

Oh, yeah, Mickey's. Mickey's is great. People still drink Mickey's.

[Craig]

Mickey's like, like 40s.

[Danny Heiferson]

I've never heard of Mickey's.

[DK]

I don't know if it's malt liquor or just beer in a 40 ounce.

[Craig]

Thing, but I. I've had a Mickey's.

[DK]

40 Mickey's they used to make. I don't. Maybe they don't make these anymore. But it's like a little. It's like a half bottle of Mickey's. And it looked like a grenade. And it's just like a cute little, you know, it's like a session beer that you can have at a party. And they're. They're pretty small.

[Danny Heiferson]

Ryan says that it is hieroglyphic puzzles like alcoholic Snapple facts on the cap.

[Craig]

That's kind of fun.

[DK]

Mickey's. Mickey's was a foundational beer in, I want to say, like, the early aughts, everyone was drinking Mickey's. You go to like a gas station and get Mickey's. It's harder to find. Now.

[Danny Heiferson]

I've never heard of this or seen it. I'm looking at it now.

[DK]

I've never even seen this high Fitz. When I turned 40, Skippy got me a Mickey's 40 out.

[Danny Heiferson]

Yeah, that's the thing I think about a lot is Zima. Zima walked so that Mike's Hard could run, so White Claw could fly.

[Craig]

Was it. Was it X I m a X I n A Or was it a Z?

[DK]

No Z ima.

[Craig]

Oh, Zima.

[DK]

Zema Zima.

[Danny Heiferson]

You guys see your talk. Your Gen X is too toxic masculinity to, like, make Zima work. But the reality is now Z is punctured through Gen Z. Yeah, we.

[DK]

Yeah, we did have too much toxic masculinity back then. It's from Robert our bone.

[Danny Heiferson]

We used to drink sidewalk slams, which involved drinking half of a malt liquor 40 ounces akin to a brass monkey, and then filling the bottle up with four loo back to the top. And then we would duct tape them both to our hands and play Edward forty hands with them. But it was after you drink half. So it was Edward 40 hands with a four loco and a malt liquor, which generally resulted with someone peeing their pants before they could finish the 80 ounces of liquid. Of liquid, which. And we got more emails about this than I'm comfortable.

[DK]

We were built diff back then, you guys.

[Craig]

Yeah, we were just.

[DK]

The new generation doesn't even like to drink anymore, dude.

[Craig]

Edward, it's not our generation. It's the one below us, right? It's Calvin's generation. Calvin hasn't had a drink yet.

[DK]

I bet he's sober as a judge.

[Danny Heiferson]

Well, every generation thinks that even again re watching Mad Men. And it's like, they're like, yeah, I'm done drinking now. But they drink beer, right?

[DK]

Right?

[Craig]

Or they're like, I don't drink anymore. I'm slow. It Down. I'm going to pivot to clear liquor.

[DK]

Right, right, right. Healthy. It's healthy for you.

[Craig]

Okay.

[DK]

Sidewalk Islam.

[Craig]

Splitting the 40 with half of a 4 loco is just.

[DK]

Did you guys. Did you guys ever do breast monkeys?

[Danny Heiferson]

No, I don't actually know what that is. I just read it.

[DK]

It's orange juice in a 40 ounce.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Danny Heiferson]

Why?

[Craig]

I don't think I ever did that.

[DK]

Because it tastes better. Oh. I mean, I think. I don't know why else, but that was why I would do it. I like the taste of orange juice. It's like a mixed drink. I like the taste of it.

[Danny Heiferson]

All right, email us at ringer fantasy football gmail.com. i want memorable. I want memorable best man speeches. Any other original four Loco stories, draft questions, super bowl questions, emails from your Fantasy Football gmail.com. thank you, DK. Thank you, Craig. Thank you, Cam. Thank you, Carlos. Thank you, Kai. Thank you, Austin. Thank you, everyone, for listening. Thank you, Lord Lord.

[DK]

Thank you, Tina Turner.

[Craig]

Okay, I'll have the Ike and Tina tuna planar platter. This does not bode well.

[DK]

As she walks into blimpies, Craig is referencing Arrested Development.

[Craig]

For the record, dude, I'm reading about Locos. They are a remarkable beverage. They are something. You know, we always look back at 80s movies and like, what were they doing in the 80s? The Four Loco feels like an 80s drink. I can't believe that we were drinking that. They changed the recipe in 2010, which makes sense. I mean, I went to high school 08 to 12, so I think right around that switch, I think I had a couple before they changed it. Dude. 14% alcohol.

[DK]

They are 14.

[Craig]

Which is a bottle of wine. They are 23 and a half ounces of. I don't know why they don't. They weren't the size of a regular soda can. They were 24 ounces, 14% alcohol. They had caffeine, taurine, and guarana in them.

[DK]

Oh, my God.

[Craig]

And you're drinking, like, the fruit punch flavor. Just getting absolutely bombed.

[DK]

Absolutely bombed.

[Craig]

They were produced by Fusion projects was the name of the company. They probably also make, like, fucking metal.

[DK]

Did you guys in your day for Loco?

[Craig]

They were notorious for its original Blackout in a can formula.

[DK]

Right? They had to make it illegal because it was like they. People would go to these parties and they would find kids out on the front lawn, like, totally passed out.

[Danny Heiferson]

We have emails of people who are, like, from all over. One particularly memorable one about someone who went to school at Iowa, which I guess I was sitting at that point, was the number one alcohol consumption in America. And they were like, hell yeah. They did the Edward 40 hands with the four locos. And he was like. The first time apparently he was like, I, I, I, I was told that I had shoved a blind man in line for bathroom in a wheelchair. And the second time that he woke up in someone else's house and it turned out to be like a neighbor, like a 60 year old man is like, what are you doing in my house? And then he was like, I stopped drinking 4 loco. But there's like we. I got a concerning amount of emails about people saying those things.

[DK]

Things. Old English. What? I think the original Edward Forty Hands beer malt liquor is like 6%. This was 14%.

[Craig]

That's what wine is.

[DK]

That's like you're drinking a bottle of wine.

[Craig]

A pop with caffeine.

[Danny Heiferson]

Bottle of wine was a monster.

[DK]

And creatine. So you can get all jacked up. Craig, when in your. Well, hi too. In your guys's day, did you do drop shots? Is that still a thing that people do? It's a drop shot, like you know, like a touchdown or a. You're dropping. What are they called?

[Craig]

No, we just shotgun beers.

[DK]

You guys didn't do drop shots in your day?

[Danny Heiferson]

I don't even know what you're talking.

[Craig]

I don't. That is.

[DK]

You drop a shot in a drink and.

[Craig]

Oh, you mean like a Jaeger Bomb or something?

[DK]

Yeah, Bomb is what I was thinking of.

[Craig]

Yeah, we did that.

[DK]

You guys didn't call them drop shots?

[Danny Heiferson]

No, that's a better name actually.

[DK]

Okay.

[Craig]

Drop shot is good.

[DK]

We used to do. I wanna, I wanna see if anyone was my contemporary at Dante's in Seattle in the U district back in probably 2005, 2007 or so.

[Danny Heiferson]

Doug Baldwin was there.

[DK]

Yeah, he was there. They had like dj, they had straight up dance part. This was a. It's like a tavern vibe. It was like a. I don't even know how to call it. It was the weirdest part I've ever been to. And it had a. It was like a chalet vibe decoration. Like you're in Bavaria or something. But then they had a dance floor and everybody's in there doing shots. And I remember one day, it's closed now. It burned down, which is very apt. We, we were, we knew the bartenders and we ordered a pitcher of yeg bomb and they gave it to us. So that was, that was the high point, I think of my Dante's experience.

[Craig]

You know, we talk about how I have this past life and all these crazy stories DK does as well. We could dig into DK's past and learn a lot about a man that no one knew.

[DK]

I just want to know if anyone who's listening was at Dante's in that era.

[Craig]

Okay. He was, like, backpacking all over the world in his 20s. He's got a lot of stories in the whole.

[Danny Heiferson]

DK was in Fast and the Furious 5.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[DK]

Yeah, Craig. My version of that is like, I went backpacking. Where'd you go? I don't know. What'd you do there? I don't know. I can't remember.

[Danny Heiferson]

Yo, how long on. Six months. Cool. Can you tell me one thing, dude?

[Craig]

Half the time when you book these, like, stupid extra roles, they don't even tell you the name of the project because when they film it, they have code names. So, like, you genuinely don't even know what you're doing.

[Danny Heiferson]

I know Vin Diesel's driving a Ferrari by. You're like, I have no idea.

[Craig]

Okay, that one I KNEW. But the TV show about World War I, whatever, I don't know. It's like, has some fake name, and then it comes out in a year. And they don't. It's not like they're sending me an email saying, hey, congrats, your episode's out.

[DK]

That's fair. That's fair.

[Danny Heiferson]

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