BONUS EP: Combine Deep Dive and Measuring Our Arms With Todd McShay and Steve Muench

Summary

The Ringer NFL Draft Show

BONUS EP: Combine Deep Dive and Measuring Our Arms With Todd McShay and Steve Muench
February 28, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this combine special, hosts Danny Heifetz, Danny Kelly, and Craig Horlbeck are joined by ESPN draft analysts Todd McShay and Steve Muench for a lively deep dive from Indianapolis. The crew blend expert combine analysis and in-the-trenches scouting talk with a series of running jokes—literally—about wingspans, hand measurements, and their own questionable NFL measurables. They debate the draft’s best prospects, positional value, the relevance of arm length, and the philosophy of drafting quarterbacks. All while keeping the tone fun, irreverent, and informative.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

Combine Setting, Dinner, and Shrimpgate (04:30–06:27)

• The episode opens with camaraderie: the group jokes about squeezing together, enjoying dinner, and counting shrimp at Indianapolis' famous St. Elmo's Steak House.
• Conspiracy is floated: the legendary St. Elmo’s shrimp is supposedly getting smaller and “hidden under the horseradish” (05:17)—“It is, right?” (Danny Kelly, 05:21).

Draft Board Debate & Jeremiah Love Discourse (06:27–07:40)

• Jeremiah Love (RB, Notre Dame) is Todd McShay’s No. 1 player—an unusual distinction for a running back.
• McShay confesses the hesitation:

  “I’ve never had a running back number one overall. It…should be a quarterback or…pass rusher. But…identical grades as David Bailey [and] Arvell Reese.” (Todd McShay, 06:33)

• Discussion around how an outstanding combine from front-seven defensive players (David Bailey, Arvell Reese, Sonny Styles) could shift the board.

Arm Length: Myth, Measurement, and Meaning (07:40–15:05)

Why Does Arm Length Matter?

• Steve Muench:

  “Definitely more for a tackle…for a tackle, it just shows up more about pushing guys past the edge… a defensive lineman, you kind of can win in a bunch of different ways.” (08:38)

• They dive into Will Campbell’s arm length “issues,” noting short arms showed up on his college tape and opposing defenses targeted him.
• Todd McShay:

  “There’s almost no point in time ever in football where the offensive tackle is a better athlete in space than the pass rusher coming at him...So arm length becomes important...” (10:27)

Does It Show Up on Tape?

• The group distinguishes between “measurables” and game reality.

  “You can’t just be like, oh, he’s got short arms and whatever. Does it show up on tape?...With Campbell in college it did.” (Steve Muench, 09:41)

Measurement Chaos & The Great Tape Measure Bit

• They attempt to measure each other’s arms live for comparison, recreating combine methods, and quarrel about whether to measure from shoulder, fingertip, or “meat of the shoulder.”
• On Danny Kelly’s claim to 34-inch arms:

  “Let’s just say you went from a day one guy to a day two.” (Craig Horlbeck, 03:24)

• Todd and Steve mock the measuring process, comparing it to “my wife saying a couch will fit there” (Todd McShay, 14:02).
• More hand measurements ensue:

  “I’ve heard set, yo…he could throw for 20 yards in an NFL game with his eight and a half inch hand.” (Steve Muench, 16:19)

Memorable Moment:

• The “can Craig throw for 20 yards in an NFL game” debate:

  “I think I could be schemed up for 20 yards in the game.” (Craig Horlbeck, 16:56)
  “Give him Shanahan...his only goal is to get me to 20 yards. He could do it." (Craig, 17:01)
  “No.” (Both Todd and Steve, immediately, 17:45–17:46)

Quarterback Drafting Philosophy & Ty Simpson (18:47–24:56)

• The gang discusses which QBs not named Mendoza might rise. McShay’s pick: Ty Simpson.
• Todd McShay elevator pitch:

  “Through nine games...he was the best quarterback in the country...then things fell apart...best WR stopped producing, no run game, protections got figured out... plus injuries and gastritis.” (19:23–20:26)

• The group debates Simpson’s lack of elite physical tools but elite processing:

  “Some guys just won’t draft quarterbacks that don’t have an elite trait...where he’s elite is his mind...pre snap, post snap…” (Todd McShay, 21:26)

• Concerns about “1-year wonder” types:

  “It’s scary, man. 13 games you played, 15 starts...and the history tells you that he’s going to have to be a complete outlier...first round picks at 15 starts, like, it doesn’t work.” (Steve Muench, 22:28–22:33)

QB Team Building and Analytics (24:24–27:10)

• Discussion on the value of always taking swings at QBs, echoing Browns GM Andrew Berry:

  “There’s something to say for drafting one every year.” (Steve Muench, 24:39) “You mean you hit, you get like a Russell Wilson and you have that rookie contract... nothing more valuable, right?” (Todd McShay/Steve Muench, 24:50–24:57)

• The crew agree, even analytics-driven teams aren’t above throwing “darts” at the QB board.

  “No one knows. Throw a bunch of darts. The Patriots with the draft, they’re like, no one knows. It’s hard.” (Danny Kelly, 26:18)

Positional Value & Best Player Available (26:53–30:09)

• Real talk about “best player available” versus drafting need—and how boards get subtly stacked to fit team needs.
• Caleb Downs (Safety, Ohio State) discussion: why is a top safety never the clear top pick?

  “I just don’t know who’s a better player than Caleb Downs is.” (Steve Muench, 27:41)

• Danny Heifetz and crew re-litigate the pitfalls of positional value, especially at running back:

  “If Zeke goes to the Cowboys’ best O-line...running backs work. Otherwise, it doesn’t seem to have an impact.” (Danny Heifetz, 27:45)

• McShay notes the impact of scheme and support cast applies for safeties too:

  “The value you get from a safety is predicated on...do you have the people up front to allow him to then go be a star?” (Todd McShay, 28:52)

Reggie Bush and RB Comparisons (31:19–32:35)

• The group debates Mel Kiper’s comp of Jeremiah Love to Reggie Bush.

  “It’s hard to compare someone to Reggie Bush, that’s all.” (DK, 31:55)

• Consensus: Love’s true strength is as a receiver; if anything, he’s closer to Bijan Robinson than Bush.

Sleeper Players and Favorite Picks (34:42–39:59)

• The hosts and guests share under-the-radar draft loves:
  • Dylan Thinnerman: “When you turn on the tape, you’re, like, pleasantly surprised. This guy is legit.” (DK, 35:54)
  • He could play free safety, nickel, and is praised as a “fun player” by McShay (36:29).
• DK’s wide receiver takes:
  • Mai Lemon: Comparable to Doug Baldwin in route running and hands (40:37).
  • Casey Concepcion, Denzel Boston, Jordan Tyson, Omar Cooper: Highlighted for their diverse skill sets.
• The “what if” about shorter receivers being outliers resurfaces.

Running Gags & Energy

• The episode weaves in ongoing friendly ribbing and recurring in-jokes about the hosts’ own arm and hand dimensions, NFL projections, and an earnest plea for a future segment to see if Craig could, truly, gain 20 passing yards in an NFL game.
• Quote:

  “He’s going to bounce the pass.” (Todd McShay, 42:20)
  “If there’s a way to get it done, it would be better—more entertaining than the Pro Bowl.” (Steve Muench, 42:25)

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Notable Quotes by Timestamp

• On shrimp sizes:

  “We do have a conspiracy that the St. Elmo shrimp is smaller than it used to be.” (Danny Kelly, 05:17)

• On measuring DK’s arms:

  “Let’s just say you went from a day one guy to a day two.” (Craig Horlbeck, 03:24)

• On Ty Simpson:

  “Through nine games...he was the best quarterback in the country...then things fell apart…” (Todd McShay, 19:23)

• On QB drafting:

  “There’s something to say for drafting one every year.” (Steve Muench, 24:39)

• On positional value for RB/S:

  “If Zeke goes to the Cowboys’ best O-line...running backs work. Otherwise, it doesn’t seem to have an impact.” (Danny Heifetz, 27:45)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [04:30] — Introduction with Todd McShay & Steve Muench, St. Elmo’s shrimp conspiracy
• [06:27] — McShay’s big board No. 1: Jeremiah Love discussion
• [07:40] — Arm length rhetoric & why it matters
• [09:41] — How short arms actually show up on tape
• [13:00] — Live arm measurement antics
• [15:16] — Can Craig throw for 20 NFL yards? The hand size challenge
• [18:47] — Which QB could rise outside of Mendoza? Ty Simpson’s case and debate on “outlier” QBs
• [24:24] — Drafting philosophy: Take a QB every year?
• [26:53] — Does any team actually pick BPA?
• [27:45] — Why “star safety” value is usually overlooked
• [31:19] — Is Jeremiah Love really another Reggie Bush?
• [34:42] — Favorite sleeper players, Dylan Thinnerman, and WR talk
• [40:37] — Makai Lemon as “Doug Baldwin” comp and more WR talk

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Tone & Style

The panel maintains The Ringer’s trademark loose, witty, deeply informed conversation—mixing football nerd-speak with roast-style humor. Tangents play off real combine debates (“where does the shoulder start?”), and the podcast’s analytical core shines through even as the crew debates their own NFL eligibility.

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Summary Highlights

• Best prospect talk focused on Jeremiah Love and the limits of positional value in a modern draft.
• Combine measurements are both serious and silly, exposing the gray area between tape, traits, and team drafting dogma.
• QB drafting is still a guessing game (“throw more darts!”)—and the rise of Ty Simpson illustrates why NFL team-building never has one answer.
• Arm length and hand size matter, but only so much; the group’s own measurements spark classic NFL combine debates.
• Receiver prospects and safety positional value are on the minds of real NFL decision makers—and The Ringer crew is not afraid to push back on media narratives.
• The humor is constant: repeated jokes about Craig’s quarterback prowess, DK’s wedding “measurements,” and the unending shrimp at St. Elmo’s.

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For Listeners New and Old

This episode delivers both smart combine insight and inside-joke banter, making it perfect for hard-core draftniks and casual listeners alike. The friendly chaos of live measurements and real-time debates gives fans a behind-the-scenes look at both the NFL combine and the process of constructing a draft board—and why both are part science, part art, and part running joke among lifelong football addicts.

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Transcript

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[Danny Kelly]

this episode is brought to you by LinkedIn ads. The best B2B marketing gets wasted on the wrong people. So when you want to reach the right professionals, use LinkedIn ads. LinkedIn has grown to a network of over 1 billion professionals, including 130 million decision makers. And that's where it stands apart from other ad buys. You can target your buyers by job title, industry, company role, seniority, skills, company revenue so you can stop wasting budget on the wrong audience. It's why LinkedIn Ads generates the highest B2B return on ad spend of all online ad networks. Seriously, all of them. Spend $250 in your first campaign on LinkedIn ads and get a free $250 credit for the next one. Just go to LinkedIn.com/ringer fantasy that is LinkedIn.com/ringer fantasy. Terms and conditions apply. Welcome to the regular fantasy football show. My name is Danny Hyperton. I'm joined by Danny Kelly, Craig rollback and in a Moment by Todd McShane. Steve Mensch we're here at the combine in Indianapolis and we had Todd and Steve from the McShay Report. The McShay show and Todd does the McShave Report and they came on. The show is awesome. We had a really fun conversation about the combine and in depth analysis of players and we also measured their arms.

[Craig Rollback]

Many body parts were measured.

[Danny Hyperton]

Yeah, several different body parts from several different people going and finding a tape measure in the hotel.

[Craig Rollback]

Yes.

[Danny Hyperton]

So props to you for that.

[Danny Kelly]

I I gotta tell you, props to me for that. But also props because we recorded this with Todd and Steve On Wednesday night. Wednesday night. And you will see in this episode we literally had the conversation of so where do the shoulders begin? And we argued about it. And guess what happened? Reuben Bane, we have conflicting reports of whether his arms are under 30, 31 or over 32. And it's the same freaking conversation we had in our dumb bit where we wanted to measure arms in this episode. And you know what? We fucking nailed it.

[Danny Hyperton]

Also the reports of Heifetz's arm length. We'll find out. You'll find out what? What they what do you say about

[Danny Kelly]

my 34 inch arms?

[Craig Rollback]

Let's just say your wedding measurements were a little hyped up.

[Danny Hyperton]

Right.

[Danny Kelly]

What are you saying?

[Danny Hyperton]

Well, people embellishment a little bit.

[Craig Rollback]

Sure. Let's just say you went from a day one guy to a day two.

[Danny Kelly]

At least two teams measured my arms at 34 inches. I don't understand what the problem is.

[Craig Rollback]

As you can see, we had some fun and mensch and Todd played ball with us, which was very nice of them.

[Danny Hyperton]

Absolutely.

[Craig Rollback]

So yeah, we're gonna go to that

[Danny Kelly]

interview and if you're watching on video then we're gonna just change out all these chairs for in our close really quickly. So just boom, tuck, roll that wrong show.

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[Danny Kelly]

[e-mail] Special segment here from Indianapolis. We're here with Todd McShay and Steve Mensch when it's the only time you're going to be called Steve the entire show from the McShay Report.

[Danny Hyperton]

Good.

[Todd McShay]

How you guys doing over there?

[Steve Mensch]

This is snug.

[Craig Rollback]

I feel nice and warm over here.

[Todd McShay]

I'm comfortable. Aren't you comfortable?

[Craig Rollback]

Yeah.

[Steve Mensch]

I feel almost bad about it.

[Todd McShay]

But if one of them came over here, it would be worse. So yeah, yeah, some of us it

[Danny Kelly]

would be worse than Others, if we switched, we could play Tetris later. We wanted. This is fun. So it's fun to have you guys on. This is really cool.

[Todd McShay]

Nice dinner tonight, by the way. Nice to break bread with you guys. Make sure spend some time interrupting. By the way, where are we up at the shrimp. I'll shut up. Go ahead. Shrimp counter.

[Danny Hyperton]

How high are we?

[Craig Rollback]

We have 24 shrimp, I think so far.

[Danny Kelly]

We do have a conspiracy that the St. Elmo shrimp is smaller than it used to be.

[Todd McShay]

It is.

[Danny Kelly]

It is, right?

[Todd McShay]

It absolutely is. I wasn't going to bring it up last night. It absolutely is.

[Craig Rollback]

And they're hiding it under the horseradish so you can't see it on the way in.

[Steve Mensch]

Well, we're on the topic. I don't really care about it. I mean, it's paid off. It's like, listen. Like, it's not like we're getting like.

[Todd McShay]

No, it used to run.

[Craig Rollback]

I say it's big enough all the time, so I get it.

[Danny Kelly]

But.

[Steve Mensch]

But I will say this. Adding. Putting more cocktail sauce on the shrimp, I thought was. That was fascinating.

[Todd McShay]

It was fascinating.

[Steve Mensch]

I mean, I was.

[Craig Rollback]

Maniac behavior. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Danny Kelly]

He's trying to out for you guys at dinner. He's just. I'm gonna put so much more.

[Todd McShay]

He yelled at me. I was like, got it. Message. Message received anyway.

[Danny Kelly]

Yeah, but we thought Reuben Bane with the arms was gonna be the big inches loser of the week. But it's really the shrimp at St. Elmo's. They're skipping and hiding. It's conspiracy. Wanted to ask you guys. There's a bunch we have to hear. We'll see how efficient we are with time. But I wanted to start with just at the beginning, the number one player on your big board, dk. Very high on your big board as well. And you have the McShay report. DK got NFL draft, the rainier.com and the number one player, Jeremiah Love, running back from Notre Dame. And you have this piece of paper in front of you that I've not seen. Is he still the number one player on your board? Yeah, he is.

[Todd McShay]

It's.

[Steve Mensch]

I'm.

[Todd McShay]

I'm fighting it. I think you can probably.

[Danny Hyperton]

I understand.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Understand, right?

[Danny Hyperton]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

I've never had a running back number one overall. And I bet you by the end I'll succumb to this feeling that I had. Have. It's just not natural. It should be a quarterback or it should be a pass rusher or a left tackle or, you know, so that parts part's different. But it's also, you know, identical, identical grades as David Bailey, Arvell Reese. I'm fast this week. Usually doesn't change a lot at the top, and I'm not saying it necessarily will, but there's this kind of opportunity, right, with David Bailey saying he's going to go through all the workouts today and on Thursday he's going to go through all the workouts. He said today on Wednesday that he's going to accept the short shuttle. And we know Arvel Reese is. And we know Sonny Styles is. And Sonny Styles is a true off the ball linebacker, but apparently what he's going to do here is something like Nick Eamon Warrior kind of stuff, so. And Jeremiah Love is going to run his 40 and that's going to wow a lot of people. And he'll go through the position drills. But. But with these front seven guys, it'll be fascinating to see what comes out of this.

[Danny Kelly]

You know, I know this, you're probably sick of talking about this, but I think we have to. Especially you guys been talking about Will Campbell for a year. You had Elliot Wolf here talking about Will Campbell, so you're probably sick of it. But the arm length thing, it's this guy never.

[Steve Mensch]

Let's go.

[Danny Kelly]

But the Ruben Bane, Miami. So you know, you have, you know, everyone stacks it differently, but you've got, I think David Bailey's your second player. You got Arvell Reese, I think third. You have Arville Reese like second, David Bailey like third or fourth.

[Danny Hyperton]

They're right next to each other.

[Danny Kelly]

Yeah, it's like flip flop. But then Ruben Bane's 10 and it's kind of the same thing for him ever. Like high motor, never takes a playoff, which is always my favorite compliment people give a player anyway. But then he's got the short arms.

[Steve Mensch]

He plays a ton of snaps too. You think? I think you need to add that in there. Like they didn't rotate those guys a ton. I mean, he was always on the field. Right.

[Danny Kelly]

It's like professional.

[Danny Hyperton]

Not Georgia, where they're rotating a lot of guys.

[Steve Mensch]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

Or Tennessee.

[Danny Kelly]

Yeah, Tennessee.

[Steve Mensch]

You could play 20 snaps a game as a defensive line.

[Danny Hyperton]

Yeah.

[Danny Kelly]

So I'm curious, do you think it matters more for arm? Like, because we were, we were talking about this today. Like, does arm like matter more for like a tackle or like an edge rusher?

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, he's my arm length guy.

[Steve Mensch]

Definitely more for a tackle, I think.

[Danny Kelly]

Why.

[Steve Mensch]

And I'll say this too, let's be more specific about it. I think for a tackle, I just Think it shows up more about pushing guys past the edge. Whereas if for defensive lineman, there's a. You're kind of can win in a bunch of different ways. Whereas a offensive lineman, you're a little more reactionary and you need to have that ability to push guys back and recover based on what the move is. Whereas a defensive end can say, this is my weakness, I'm going to go towards my strengths and minimize this where. And I can test an offensive tackle. If you're a great edge rusher in the NFL, you're going to watch tape and be like, this is this guy's weakness. If you were watching Will Campbell specifically, who, by the way, I do think played well this year and I think he can. He could be really good. I think he's got to work on some things. But if you're watching, he's got to

[Craig Rollback]

work on lengthening his arms.

[Danny Kelly]

He's got a free mom.

[Steve Mensch]

But it was clear that he was a hard time anchoring and it hurt his leg. And then he came back and everyone in the playoffs was like, we smell blood. And so that's why they went after it. If you're an edge guy and they're like, well, we're going to take this away. Well, I'm going to go to this and then I'm going to go to that. I'm going to try this. So I think that that's why it's more specifically. But I will also say we talk about this all the time. You can't just be like, oh, he's got short arms and whatever. Does it show up on tape? I thought with Campbell in college it did. I thought there were times where the arm length was an issue. There was a lot of talk about what we. I call the draft mafia. Is that what I call them on X About how Will Campbell's had the greatest tape ever. And I was like, I apparently didn't watch South Carolina or Ole Miss in the beginning of the year. Like, there was just some bad. There was some bad tape.

[Todd McShay]

So he pressed. This is a hot button. I mean, so, yeah, three, like, how long warm up to Elliott Wolf questions in when he jumped on. Jumped in and was like, yo, your left tackle, Elliot, he sucks. He's got short arms. I knew we couldn't play last year. Yeah.

[Steve Mensch]

I'm like, that's not what I said. I knew it.

[Danny Kelly]

Can I please.

[Todd McShay]

I think it's important to say a couple things. First of all, there's almost no point in time ever in football where the offensive tackle is a Better athlete in space than the pass record coming at him. So, yeah, arm length becomes important to. It's like the, you know, like the old nephew against the pesky little or the old uncle against the pesky little.

[Craig Rollback]

It's actually one of the more simple things to understand. It's like, yeah, the longer the arms

[Todd McShay]

you keep, you know, So I think that's important to keep in mind. So if you're asking which one's more important, the second is. And you touched on this. But like, if you really study it, you can tell if it matters. Like with Ruben Bane.

[Danny Hyperton]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

There's some times I'd love if he had 35 inch arms because he could do a couple things that I see him get hung up on and stuck with. But I can tell you this. I just watched Derek Moore from Michigan, really good player, maybe late second, early third, wherever he winds up going, power, bull rusher, all that. When he does, when he uses his arms correctly, he can run over guys. We saw it in one incident, I think at the, at the Senior Bowl. Did it a few times on tape. I watched, but I, but I watched a guy in Derek Moore who, who was getting kind of engulfed and, and it looked like he had shorter arms than a lot of the tape that I watched on Bane, who has three, two and a half inch shorter arms.

[Craig Rollback]

I was gonna say, like, if you didn't know Reuben Bane's arm length, would you have known he had short arms?

[Steve Mensch]

No, I heard it early in the season, so I guess it's, it's tough to say, but I didn't think it would be an issue for him. I, I hate playing this game. And this is the season. Who's gonna be the fastest guy here? Who's gonna have the longest arms? I'm like, it's really difficult to tell on tape about how that's gonna go. I can tell you whether or not it's a problem when I, and I can, I'll. There'll be. In our reports during the season, I will write things like length question mark or speed question mark, because I'm seeing some things on tape that are concerning, but I'm never like, oh, this guy's, he's, he's actually better at it. But he can be like, he'll be like, oh, he's a 4, 6 guy.

[Danny Kelly]

So you were alignment in college, right?

[Steve Mensch]

Yep.

[Danny Kelly]

And you're tackle guard. So I wanted to ask because I think the tape's important and we always talk about the arm length, but also, you know, it's nice to have played. So we said we'd do this at dinner. And I don't know if you guys.

[Steve Mensch]

Oh, yes. No, you're not.

[Danny Kelly]

All right, so we have a table. So Todd, if you get so mention. If you can reach toward. Yeah, perfect.

[Craig Rollback]

Is it middle finger to middle finger? How do you do it?

[Todd McShay]

No, shoulder.

[Craig Rollback]

Shoulder to arm.

[Steve Mensch]

I'm not doing wingspan.

[Danny Kelly]

Well, hold them up. Yeah. So we're going to measure.

[Steve Mensch]

Where should I be?

[Craig Rollback]

Middle finger.

[Danny Kelly]

Really?

[Danny Hyperton]

Right.

[Craig Rollback]

The tip of the middle finger.

[Danny Kelly]

But isn't it like. But, but no one's blocking like this. It's got to be the wrist.

[Todd McShay]

I think it's right here in the meat.

[Danny Kelly]

In the meat of the shoulder. That's a medical term.

[Todd McShay]

Don't you Google it? Double check. But I don't want to give him something.

[Danny Kelly]

This. Do they go to the fingertips?

[Steve Mensch]

That's right. Yeah, yeah, the dimple.

[Danny Kelly]

But you can't block someone with your middle finger. You have to do the hinge of the wrist, right?

[Steve Mensch]

Well, yeah, but this is how they do it.

[Danny Kelly]

But that's dumb. Why do they do it? Why does your whole hand count?

[Steve Mensch]

My nails.

[Todd McShay]

I've got third year Will Campbell. 30. 32 and.

[Craig Rollback]

Oh, eight.

[Todd McShay]

Eight. No, 33.

[Danny Kelly]

33.

[Steve Mensch]

I'll take that.

[Danny Hyperton]

33.

[Steve Mensch]

I'll take that. All right, let's go.

[Todd McShay]

It's like pretty good for him out here.

[Danny Hyperton]

I'm getting drafted.

[Craig Rollback]

We should say he is getting married this year and he is getting fitted for his suit. His brother texted us that heights has what we. What we believe is 34 inch arms.

[Danny Kelly]

So I think I'm a tackle.

[Steve Mensch]

You do not. Right?

[Todd McShay]

No way.

[Danny Hyperton]

Also, by the way, measured it with a ruler. They like went end to end with a ruler.

[Todd McShay]

What?

[Steve Mensch]

My wife being like, oh, no, a couch will fit there.

[Craig Rollback]

He does look long.

[Danny Kelly]

So get in the meat of the shoulder.

[Steve Mensch]

I feel like he's. I feel like he's cheating a little bit.

[Danny Kelly]

Coach V in high school. High school told me I was a guard.

[Todd McShay]

Told me I was a center.

[Steve Mensch]

30 inch arm, 31.

[Todd McShay]

Oh, my.

[Steve Mensch]

Listen.

[Danny Hyperton]

Yeah.

[Steve Mensch]

Better to find out now than when

[Danny Kelly]

you put that tux on my wedding tux. I'm gonna be sitting there with these little sleeves.

[Craig Rollback]

He probably was from the back of your neck.

[Danny Kelly]

I will say 31 is. Makes it all the worse if Cash's Howell or Ruby Bay come in with the 30 and a half.

[Steve Mensch]

It's the tape.

[Danny Hyperton]

My whole opinion.

[Steve Mensch]

The Utah offensive tackle is going to have short arms too, by the way. And very small hands, apparently. I don't see that as being a problem on.

[Todd McShay]

He's. He's on a campaign this weekend. Well, Spencer F. Is his guy. His love affair in this classic.

[Steve Mensch]

What do you think about him?

[Todd McShay]

And he's kind of caught.

[Danny Kelly]

Word.

[Todd McShay]

The hands are small in the arm.

[Danny Hyperton]

His thanos hands are small.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah. Supposedly going to be like under nine inches.

[Todd McShay]

So he's been kind of.

[Steve Mensch]

He's been.

[Todd McShay]

He's been cushioning the blow this week.

[Craig Rollback]

I would.

[Steve Mensch]

What I would call a nuanced conversation is what I would say.

[Danny Kelly]

I think we have to measure Todd's hands. I think that's fair. Oh, yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Let's see.

[Steve Mensch]

Quarterback.

[Danny Kelly]

He's the quarterback. He's the.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah.

[Danny Kelly]

I can't. So where does the thumb.

[Danny Hyperton]

You gotta be careful. How much stuff are we measuring here today?

[Danny Kelly]

Oh, Craig, Any loss this here?

[Danny Hyperton]

Yeah.

[Pharmaceutical Advertiser]

All right.

[Danny Kelly]

I think we got a. Oh, nine.

[Craig Rollback]

Can you pick it?

[Danny Hyperton]

Oh, he's nine and he's in there. That's NFL. Really?

[Craig Rollback]

It's bigger than Picket.

[Todd McShay]

Did you know nine and a quarter is what.

[Danny Hyperton]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. All right.

[Steve Mensch]

Well.

[Todd McShay]

Which is wild because I struggle to grip. Maybe because I'm just old. But, like, even when I was younger of the. The NFL ball was like. So the. Kenny Pickett can do it with that as well.

[Danny Hyperton]

Yeah.

[Steve Mensch]

Can we get Craig's hand real quick?

[Danny Kelly]

Craig. Craig.

[Todd McShay]

I'm not mentioning. Hold on, hold on. No, no, don't.

[Steve Mensch]

Did you play quarterback?

[Todd McShay]

Hold on.

[Craig Rollback]

It's. I was small in high school.

[Todd McShay]

I grew late. 9 and 7. 9, 9 and 3, 4.

[Craig Rollback]

I was.

[Todd McShay]

Might be 10.

[Steve Mensch]

I don't think these are that big.

[Danny Kelly]

Oh, they are.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. Do this.

[Steve Mensch]

He's gonna dislocate his pinky.

[Pharmaceutical Advertiser]

That's all right.

[Todd McShay]

Almost 10, right?

[Danny Kelly]

8.8. But that looks wrong.

[Danny Hyperton]

That.

[Danny Kelly]

That doesn't look. I just.

[Steve Mensch]

I think that's fascinating for a couple reasons. This is a man.

[Sponsor Voice]

This is a man.

[Steve Mensch]

I heard set, yo. Oh, you're not a quarterback. But this is a man. I once heard say could throw for 20 yards in an NFL game with

[Todd McShay]

his eight and a half inch head. It's not eight and a half. Put your hand up.

[Steve Mensch]

Let's say nine. Oh, my God. Those are big hands, man. Yeah.

[Danny Hyperton]

He's putting his thumb on the weight.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah.

[Danny Kelly]

We measure hand length as a straight line, but I'm like. It's kind of a circle. We don't really have good measurements.

[Todd McShay]

You got to stretch. Like, they really stretch out. But you're missing this in his hand.

[Steve Mensch]

I know he doesn't have. You're such a scout. You're so hung up on the measurements, you're missing the headline. He said he could throw for 20 yards. Okay, well, hold on.

[Craig Rollback]

I think I could be schemed up for 20 yards in the game.

[Todd McShay]

Give me a break.

[Craig Rollback]

Give him Shanahan. Kyle Shanahan. His entire week. His only goal is to get me to 20 yards. He could do it.

[Steve Mensch]

He could do it.

[Craig Rollback]

I'm hitting a bubble screen, a little flip sweep. You know, you do the like little underhand one foot toss. That's a pass. He could get me to 20 yards

[Todd McShay]

in a quarter, probably. How many beyond the line of scrimmage?

[Craig Rollback]

Well, that's a different conversation.

[Steve Mensch]

No, you said you could back shoulder someone. You also said. Listen, I did. I got the receipts.

[Craig Rollback]

Maybe a tight slant or something.

[Todd McShay]

Tight slant?

[Craig Rollback]

No, but I look screens and. And sweeps and things like that. I get to 20. Absolutely.

[Danny Hyperton]

Little pop.

[Steve Mensch]

I love it.

[Craig Rollback]

Come on. Do you think I'm a. You don't know me at all, but do you think. Do you think I would be a better thrower than Kendall Hinton who got to like 18 yards?

[Todd McShay]

No. You don't think so?

[Danny Kelly]

No

[Steve Mensch]

offense.

[Danny Kelly]

Like college quarterback.

[Todd McShay]

It was a college quarterback.

[Craig Rollback]

He was bad.

[Todd McShay]

This is what I'm telling you. Everybody wants to say.

[Danny Hyperton]

Everybody who's been in the NFL ever is the best athlete from your hometown.

[Craig Rollback]

He was a receiver. They. They played at quarterback in that game.

[Todd McShay]

He was definitely the best athlete.

[Steve Mensch]

When did you play competitive football? At any point?

[Craig Rollback]

No.

[Steve Mensch]

This is wild.

[Danny Kelly]

Freshman year, volleyball scholarship.

[Todd McShay]

He acted in a movie as a quarterback. He can't remember the name.

[Danny Kelly]

Can't remember.

[Todd McShay]

He can't remember the name.

[Steve Mensch]

How did this happen?

[Craig Rollback]

I was vertically challenged. I was five' two as a freshman.

[Todd McShay]

And my.

[Craig Rollback]

I still played freshman football because all my friends did.

[Steve Mensch]

Okay.

[Craig Rollback]

I was like totally 50. I was too. Way too small.

[Steve Mensch]

So it's competitive football. You paid freshman year. Sure.

[Craig Rollback]

But like I didn't get on the field.

[Steve Mensch]

Did you get 20 yards?

[Craig Rollback]

No.

[Todd McShay]

How tall are you now?

[Steve Mensch]

Six. Two.

[Danny Hyperton]

Six Two?

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah.

[Danny Hyperton]

I could be skin out here.

[Craig Rollback]

You don't think I can be schemed up?

[Todd McShay]

I can kind of see why fantasy blocked all you guys in the fantasy football text. Blocked all you guys in the text chain. I can actually see important stuff.

[Craig Rollback]

Can we talk about quarterbacks? I want to ask a question.

[Steve Mensch]

Yes.

[Craig Rollback]

If one of the quarterbacks not named Mendoza over the next two months gets a lot of buzz and starts to be a guy that people convince themselves should go in the first round, mid first round and could be a guy who is it and why are they convincing themselves of that over the next two months?

[Todd McShay]

Todd's guy well, it is Ty Simpson and I don't think it'll be the next two months necessarily except that I think teams that are interested in them maybe The Rams at 13 or 29 or the jets at 16 is their second pick which I God, I hope he doesn't wind up there.

[Danny Hyperton]

We all do. Yeah

[Todd McShay]

but what's the elevator The Browns are what, 24. The elevator pitches through nine games. Last year he was the best quarterback in the country because Mendoza played his best ball late in the season and then things fell apart for Ty Simpson. Now he's got some questions to answer like what happened? I know some of the reasons why but there's no excuses at that position. The what are the reasons why for starters, your best wide receiver and that's not even the biggest thing but let's that's the easy one. Your best wide receiver just stopped producing and drops drops and confidence and everything else. A guy that was like 1A 1B with Jeremiah Smith coming out and recruiting he was supposed to be an absolute star. The faces of the he disappears. Most importantly, they didn't have a run game. And so we saw it with Nussmeier even the year earlier when he had the really good year. It wears on you over time when you're having to carry the offenses. And then the third part is I think Venables figured out how to beat their protections and I think everyone after that kind of use that blueprint and so you add those three things together and then was it gastritis?

[Danny Kelly]

Gastritis like I mean he got the kicked out of me had a back injury and then gastritis basically it seemed like a consequence of taking so many so much pain medication and you know

[Todd McShay]

down to £190 by the Rose bowl is the reports and so it's a lot of things. So you want to see him Is he back to 210 Is he healthy? What are the medical reports? I mean he I was told by someone I know is very close to in his family he wasn't even throw he couldn't throw at the Senior bowl so and he was it was a dream of his since he was like 12 years old to play at the Senior bowl just literally was not cleared to throw yet. So he's coming in just off of what Couple couple weeks. Couple few weeks of getting prepared but hopefully he's medically doing great. £210 like normal can kind of answer some of the Questions and certain things. And it's not going to be him doing anything physical from this point out because physically we know what he is.

[Craig Rollback]

Yeah. Nothing that jumps off the page, right?

[Todd McShay]

No, I think the his is he doesn't have an elite physical trait.

[Steve Mensch]

I don't think he has any red

[Todd McShay]

flags either arm that everyone wants to give him credit. He's more mobile than everyone wants to give him give him credit. But. But he's not. He doesn't have an elite trait. And some guys just won't draft quarterbacks that don't have an elite trait. So I get that part. But what where he's elite is his mind and his, his scheduling, his organization. So you said pretty much pre snap, post snap, all the things that go into it. And I think he's going to really wow some people with that aspect of it. And is that enough to get a team to draft him in the middle of first round? We'll wait and see. But I can't imagine he's going to get out of the top 40. And I actually, I'll be surprised if he's not a first round.

[Steve Mensch]

You know what scares the hell out of me? We've seen an Alabama quarterback wait to get the starting job, come in, have an amazing year, get drafted in the middle of the first round and it did not go well. I mean, Mac Jones is like different players I know all the time you want to talk about. No, no, they're different players you're gonna make fun of.

[Todd McShay]

Starts is frightening.

[Steve Mensch]

It's scary, man. It's scary.

[Craig Rollback]

13 games you played, 15 starts.

[Todd McShay]

15 starts. It's frightening. And the history tells you that he's going to have to be a complete outlier. And so first round picks at 15 starts, like it doesn't work. And so we'll see. But I like them.

[Steve Mensch]

You can fall in love with the tape. You can easily fall in love with the tape. There's games and plays that you're like, yeah, this guy's a dude

[Danny Hyperton]

in the early part of the season where people were like, this is the QE one, as you said.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah.

[Danny Hyperton]

So your quarterback too, Five star guy? Yeah.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah.

[Danny Hyperton]

I'm worried about the fact that he is an outlier. To me, that's just this, the lack of starts thing is tough and he's already a little bit older. But I mean if he ends up somewhere where he is a backup for a little bit and get some time to like season out or whatever, whatever you want to call it somewhere.

[Todd McShay]

So we have this, we have this market now. Right.

[Sponsor Voice]

With.

[Todd McShay]

With Malik Willis, all of a sudden he's the greatest quarterback. Right.

[Steve Mensch]

That's kind of wild by the way.

[Todd McShay]

Is that a little ridiculous? And the Steele really want Aaron Rodgers to come back for a year and Daniel Jones, you know. But I'm just saying. So this is the market that we have and you say to yourself, well we could get a really good player. But we're also all saying that what do I got? 10 to 12 guys with true first round grades in this class. So you get me to 13 and I'm like all right. So I'm getting what I would consider an early second round if that's what the board is. Is it worth just taking a shot here or I got Matthew Stafford and we got it. We got like the smallest of windows, so I better get another. So it's, it's for each organization that would entertain it. There's a lot that goes into this. But I also know I've. I'm close friends with a couple GMs who spent one who is out of the league now and another who has spent the vast majority of careers chasing a quarterback, doing everything else right, getting every other position right, great rosters, we all applauded everything. Can't get the quarterback right. So like maybe I just keep taking hacks, right?

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

I don't know.

[Steve Mensch]

I think there's something to say for drafting one every year. Yeah, like you know Andrew Barry said

[Todd McShay]

that just take one in his press

[Craig Rollback]

yesterday he was like I don't see a problem with taking a quarterback every single year.

[Steve Mensch]

I, I think there's something like if

[Todd McShay]

you hit Pro Bowler.

[Steve Mensch]

You mean you hit, you get like a Russell Wilson and you have that rookie contract.

[Danny Hyperton]

Nothing more valuable, right?

[Todd McShay]

Nothing.

[Steve Mensch]

Nothing.

[Todd McShay]

Well, they look at the Browns are the most analytics driven front office in the league. And from an analytics which is so

[Craig Rollback]

funny,

[Danny Kelly]

the Jonah Hill for money. Right. Paul De Podesta had to run hightail to the Rockies and the Rockies aren't. I mean the Rockies are trying to put a salary cap on non player spending. So I mean I don't know if that was like.

[Todd McShay]

But they're just looking at it from a value standpoint. You draft one in the fourth or fifth or even the six or seven thing, you go get a third forum that's compensation one in the third. Now eventually you've got to be able to draft players and develop them with all those picks that you get, you know, but conceptually they're not like I agree with that portion of the analytical puzzle.

[Danny Hyperton]

Yeah. John Schneider used To say it all the time. I mean, he didn't actually do it, but I love.

[Danny Kelly]

I love that.

[Todd McShay]

Well, he grew up under the board.

[Steve Mensch]

It happens all the time.

[Todd McShay]

Think it was Elliot Wolf or was it. Who was it before him? San Francisco.

[Steve Mensch]

I. Not John Lynch. Oh, was the guy. Did he go to Jacksonville?

[Todd McShay]

Trent Balkan, Thompson. No, it's Bill. Bill Walsh was Bill Walsh. It was at my. But I know. I know that Elliot Wolf was one of the first, like, GMs in position where it's like, if it's not every year, it's every other year. Even if when you'll draft one, we're going to bring one in.

[Danny Kelly]

You know, everyone told he asked Bill Walsh asked everyone in the Niners on the organization, should we trade for Steve Young? Everyone told him no, and he was like, fuck it, I did it anyway. And good idea. And like, no one knows. That's the smartest people. You dig through the. Well, Belichick, Bill Walsh, Ron Wolfe, they're all like, no one knows. Throw a bunch of darts. The Patriots with the draft, they're like, no one knows. It's hard. Like, we want more picks and more picks. You can be more. Right. And so I'm the quarter I think I could talk about forever. But to the thing you guys just alluded to at the draft, how much do we talk? All the time. Teams like, hey, you got to take the best player available. Does anyone actually take the best player available after the first 40 picks?

[Steve Mensch]

Well, they do on their. This is the tricky thing, right? Because knee drives up value. So they. They're all sudden. They're looking at that guy, and they're like, well, he's actually. We like him a little bit more than this other guy, even though his knee drives up value. But then at their final board, they're having him higher. So, like, oh, it's the highest guy on our board. And it's like, well, there's a little bit of bias.

[Danny Kelly]

You stack the board to what you needed, right?

[Danny Hyperton]

Yeah.

[Steve Mensch]

So, I mean, otherwise Caleb Downs would go, what? Well, you. This is something that's crazy to me, and I want to ask you about where he is on your board. You don't have Caleb Downs in your. The top three. You have. How's it. Can I look real quick?

[Danny Kelly]

Sure.

[Todd McShay]

He's number four.

[Steve Mensch]

He's got three 94s, and then Caleb Downs at a 93. I just don't know. Like, I. I just don't know who's a better player than Caleb Downs is. You know what I mean? So that. That was interesting to me.

[Danny Kelly]

I love Caleb.

[Danny Hyperton]

I have him at three. So very close.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah.

[Danny Hyperton]

High. Fitz is obsessed with Caleb Downs. He's your guy.

[Danny Kelly]

I just think the positional value thing, it's like, it depends why. And I think the difference is, I think we've seen in recent years there's a ton of evidence that if you take a running back and you're not really. You haven't built the infrastructure, the running back doesn't actually make people better. The running back needs other people to. You know, the Giants didn't win the Saquon. The Panthers didn't win the Christian McCaffrey. It's like if Zeke goes to the Cowboys in the best O line in the NFL or Christian McCaffrey goes to Shanahan or Gurley goes to Sean McVay, or Saquon goes to the Eagles. Best offensive line, best play caller. Running backs work. Otherwise, it doesn't seem to have an impact. I will say the safety thing kind of player. I don't know what position you necessarily want to call him. He could do a bunch of things. I just think it's so clear that he's making everyone else better. He increases the margin of error for all these other positions. And so I think. I don't think any of the team should be taking Jeremiah Love in the first five or six picks solely because I think it's a missed mistake. The same way the Raiders probably should have took Membu instead of Ash and Genti. But if I look at Caleb Downs, I see the Giants taking Kevon Thibodeau and Evan Neal over Kyle Hamilton. And everyone's like, well, he's the best player in the draft. Kyle Hamilton a few years ago. And then like, can you take him? No, he's a safety. And then a year later, like, well, he's the best player in the league. And I'm like, just take Caleb down. So that's my two cents. I guess it was more like another.

[Todd McShay]

No, no, no. I was thinking, like, running back is obviously more, you know, predicated. Success is predicated on those around him and blocking and everything else. I do think safety to a certain. It's. I don't think it's predicated. I think the value you get from a safety is predicated on, do you have the people up front to allow him to then go be a star? You know, and the Ravens did.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah, you know, the Giants do not.

[Todd McShay]

Well, no, the Giants. The Giants do.

[Steve Mensch]

They need to.

[Todd McShay]

They need their run defense. And I think you can help in that. That regard. They've got pass rushers.

[Steve Mensch]

Yes.

[Todd McShay]

And so. But here's the thing. Here's the thing I struggle with because I could make the argument all day long he's the best football player in this draft. Just football player instincts. He's like a step and a half ahead of all these guys who. Eight of them who got drafted last year and another. How many are going to go this year? Feels like half the first round Ohio State defensive players again.

[Danny Kelly]

But

[Todd McShay]

he's not that big. He's average size.

[Danny Hyperton]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

I think he's going to be good speed like 4 4, 3, 44 or something like that. But he's not even worry size speed.

[Danny Hyperton]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

He's not that length of a Kyle Hamilton. He's. He falls off some tackles. He's not elite in some coverage situations. Deep middle, like so. But I absolutely adore what he is and I think he's again, probably the best football player in this draft. But am I going to take that over an edge rusher if I'm a team picking in the top 10 and I'm just not ready to plug in that piece? You know, I guess that's. That's where my struggle is.

[Steve Mensch]

I hear you. I mean, you just made my pitch though.

[Todd McShay]

And it's.

[Steve Mensch]

We're like nitpicking. We really are. I just, I just.

[Danny Hyperton]

Everybody understand nitpicking.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah.

[Danny Hyperton]

Yeah.

[Danny Kelly]

So a couple of things just before we get out of here. I want to start with you because I'm not going to. I'm not. I'll tell you who made this comparison afterward, but someone respected. Compared Jeremiah Love to Reggie Bush. And I, I want to ask you what you think of that because I thought Reggie Bush as a college player was on that level of like comparing tight end to Gronk or something. And I really thought twice. And I'm curious, should people take that, like, should people get like, we're almost stuck so much talking about Jeremiah Love shouldn't be taking that top 10 running back. Is another Reggie Bush coming into the league. Do you think he's actually.

[Danny Hyperton]

I mean, I think where that comp comes from is the passing game work that Jeremiah Love would provide. Like he's a legit receiver, which is I think what made Reggie Bush so great. And Reggie Bush. I just don't make comps like that typically, unless I'm like super, super sure that I. This guy's going to be like transformational in the NFL. But I mean, I understand where it's coming from stylistically. Point of view, explosive player Break tackles, explosive plays. I mean, and then the passing game stuff is massive. So. But yeah, I mean, it's. I understand where it's coming from. I just. It's hard to compare someone to Reggie Bush, that's all. Yeah.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

I don't love it. Yeah. And I'm not saying it's wrong or like, I don't. I just, like, I think there's more. Bijan maybe.

[Steve Mensch]

I think stylistically a little different.

[Danny Kelly]

That. That makes sense.

[Steve Mensch]

I hear what you're saying, but what they can do, but the style of how they do it to me is a little bit different.

[Craig Rollback]

Is he on par with Bijan, Ashton Genti? Is he above those guys, below them?

[Steve Mensch]

Bijan's different.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, he was. He's. Well, I think we went through it the other day. I gave a grade. Was it on par with Genty?

[Steve Mensch]

I think he's closer than Genti, than.

[Todd McShay]

But not Bijan. Was there someone else we had that we were going through?

[Danny Hyperton]

Sick one in there.

[Todd McShay]

Saquon's highest.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, it makes sense.

[Danny Kelly]

You don't agree with the comparison. The Mel Kuiper's comp for Jeremiah Love is Reggie Bush,

[Todd McShay]

which, of course,

[Danny Kelly]

he's got the 40 years similar.

[Steve Mensch]

Mel Kuiper gave me a career.

[Todd McShay]

He gave me a career for 15 years. It was. It was a lot of fun. Like, just, you know.

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[Todd McShay]

Stuff like that.

[Danny Kelly]

I meant to ask you at dinner if we could do the Tod. Tod. Tod Todd, if that was. And then I remembered you're in the video. So I was like, okay.

[Todd McShay]

That was a weird deal, man. That was the day of the. We taped that the day of the Boston bombing. And my family back in Boston checked in with, like, one of the top executives. And it was like, yo, I gotta. I gotta get back home, you know? And he's like, is everyone alive? And say. I was like, yeah, right now. But, you know. And there's like.

[Steve Mensch]

And where did you. Where did you.

[Todd McShay]

He's like, caliento's been in makeup for eight hours. I can't. You know? I was like, okay, so we do all that. So we went through and we taped a bunch of different segments. And he's running down to the calf where there's a Starbucks. The chugging coffee to do with that trans teleportation thing. Then he comes up and he stinks like coffee. And he's like, oh, standing over my shoulder, and he's like, I think we got everything we need. And he's, like, legitimately hopped up because he was drinking that much coffee. And I was like. He's like, can you think of anything else I miss? Like, take a minute. And I was like, honestly, the only thing I could think of. And I don't know if you have a bit for it, but including my mom and my family, I don't think a human being has ever said my first name more. And he's like. And he's like, give me a couple examples. I was like, well, he'd just be like, todd, Todd. You know? And so he goes, all right. He goes. He went back into his studio that he was in because we were taping from different places, and we. That's where it was birthed. And we did that last segment that became the Todd Todd in, like, a minute and a half. We did, like, one take, just went nuts, and then that was it.

[Danny Kelly]

That's the best way. You're better impressions than making you.

[Steve Mensch]

That's not bad. That's not bad.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, it's pretty good.

[Steve Mensch]

Oh, my God.

[Danny Kelly]

All right, well, anything else?

[Todd McShay]

You guys, give me a. Give me a player that you love in this draft.

[Danny Hyperton]

Dk Dylan Thinnerman from. Yeah. I am excited to see what he does. I've heard that he's, like, super explosive, super fast, maybe even.

[Todd McShay]

He's gonna be awesome running the four

[Danny Hyperton]

threes or something like that. I don't know if we'll get there, but he was a guy that when you turn on the tape, you're, like, pleasantly surprised. You're like, oh, this guy is legit so he would be one guy that came to mind. How are you guys feeling about him?

[Steve Mensch]

I was watching his freshman tape at Purdue because he played in the box last year a lot and then when he was a freshman, he played deep like six picks. And I'm watching him like this guy could play free safety. Like, he runs like a free safety. He tracks like a free safety.

[Todd McShay]

Tasha Poy says he's the best nickel he's ever cut slot cover that he's

[Steve Mensch]

ever been around playing the nickel. Play him in the box, he's gonna run really well.

[Todd McShay]

Like he said, like stuff in practice even that you don't see on tape. He's like, this is, this is something he's got. So it's a good safety. You get Caleb Downs. We're debating is he the best player in the class? Emmanuel McNeil, Warren Love. He's a, he's a fun player. I like him a lot. So you could have three safeties in the, in the first round, which is not an every year occurrence, but yeah.

[Danny Kelly]

Anyone else you love? DK. DK weirdly bats 85 with wide receivers. He's like the wide receiver.

[Steve Mensch]

Give me your Mai Lemon take.

[Danny Hyperton]

I like, I like Lemon. I actually think it's going to be fascinating to see. Did he measure yet, like how big he is?

[Todd McShay]

No. So the, the. We're taping this on Wednesday night. So tomorrow, Thursday is defensive lineman and linebackers. And then they basically the morning, it's different and they used to do it in advance. It's the morning of their workout.

[Steve Mensch]

They. They.

[Danny Hyperton]

Yeah, right.

[Danny Kelly]

Okay, guys, I'm not crazy. I got all that wrong on our last Friday show.

[Todd McShay]

No, they changed it a couple years ago.

[Danny Hyperton]

But yeah, I think this is. Again, it goes to the question that this whole draft kind of brings up is like, how high do you take a guy who primarily has played inside? I guess, I mean, I think he can play a little bit outside, but that's where he's been at at his best. Is that worth the top 10 pick? I think that's what teams are going to have to ask themselves.

[Todd McShay]

It's.

[Danny Hyperton]

It's very similar to the safety question. It's very similar to the off ball linebacker question.

[Todd McShay]

Who's your favorite receiver? Tate. Tate.

[Danny Hyperton]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

And then Lemon.

[Danny Hyperton]

Yeah, I think so.

[Todd McShay]

Let me see.

[Danny Kelly]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

And then.

[Danny Hyperton]

And then I like, there's like Casey Concepcion. I like in that a lot. I like Denzel, Boston a lot. Jordan Tyson, I like a lot. And I think those kind of my top five guys.

[Todd McShay]

And is there one outside of the five that you kind of want to plant a flag or.

[Danny Hyperton]

No, I mean, I like Omar Cooper a lot as well. Yeah, Cooper, he's, I think similar to Lemon. There's going to be questions of whether he plays outside, whether he's just a slot.

[Todd McShay]

You know what's interesting? He. I didn't realize this he until I went back and was watching. He played. It's almost flip flop, the snapshot. Vast majority in slot and 25. Vast majority on the outside in 24. So there is, you know, there is tape.

[Danny Kelly]

It's.

[Todd McShay]

It's a little different without Mendoza, but. And he didn't have the year, but he at least has some reps there.

[Danny Hyperton]

But yeah, I think body control, hands, reliable hands, run after the catch, toughness. How about this for the big play?

[Todd McShay]

Jarvis Landry, actually with speed, right?

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah.

[Danny Hyperton]

I love that I heard you say that. And I think the size, like in terms of just his physical, he's. He's a thicker player. Yeah. Like, he's not like a skinny, spindly slot guy. He's. He's got some bulk to him and really tough. Big at the catch point. I mean, we all seen the crazy catches that he makes.

[Todd McShay]

I think that's obviously like he blocks. He might be the best blogger I've seen on tape so far.

[Steve Mensch]

Yes.

[Danny Hyperton]

Where are you at at Lemon though? You don't like Lemon?

[Steve Mensch]

I love Lemon. I love his tape. I don't think traditionally, like, I loved Elijah Moore when he's coming out of Ole Miss. I mean, he had some of the best hands I've ever seen on tape.

[Danny Hyperton]

Yeah.

[Steve Mensch]

But he was. I don't think he's going to be that small.

[Danny Kelly]

But love.

[Todd McShay]

Love is one of those things you have put some perspective on your love. Like you can, you can love a girl that you only want to take on a date one time. You don't really love her.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah, I, I, yeah, I'm not hot

[Todd McShay]

and you want to kick tires a little bit. Right.

[Steve Mensch]

But by the way, this is. He does this all the time. It always comes back.

[Todd McShay]

But, but truthfully, in order to love of Makai Lemon, you've got to have them up in a range with where

[Steve Mensch]

I will be more specific. I understand what you're saying. I really like tape. I love how competitive he is. I think he can be really good. I don't think receivers that. I mean, I think I'm on Ross st. Brown is 5 11. But like when you start to get under six foot, he was like 5 11, three quarters, I think.

[Danny Hyperton]

Yeah.

[Danny Kelly]

Yeah.

[Steve Mensch]

That's ideal if that's what Lemon is. I'm like, I'm fired up and he's probably going to be my number two receiver.

[Todd McShay]

Right.

[Steve Mensch]

That being said, right now, I don't think he is. And if he's 5, 10 or shorter, I just like we're talking about outliers again. Outliers again. And why am I like, what's he running? He's gonna run like a great, like. I, I just don't know. I'm not ready to see a parcels tree guy. I probably am.

[Danny Hyperton]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don't know if this is a good, a very good comp, but I threw this out to these guys and they kind of like shot me down. But he reminded me of Doug Baldwin a little bit in the sense that that route running ability to uncover quickly, separate really quickly, and then just incredible catches. His catch radius and his ability to go up a toughness at the catch point really reminded me of Doug Baldwin. I'm a Seahawks homer.

[Steve Mensch]

I was gonna say you gotta then you love Lemon.

[Craig Rollback]

Our argument was like, if he's Doug Baldwin, that's not a first round pick.

[Danny Hyperton]

Right. That is, that's insane to me. Maybe not a top 10 pick. I think that's insane that you maybe first, I guess. But yeah, that to me that's like

[Steve Mensch]

go watch Doug lost in this one.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Danny Hyperton]

You haven't watched Doug Baldwin enough. That's the problem.

[Craig Rollback]

I'm watching Doug Baldwin tape.

[Danny Kelly]

Baldwin threw for 20 yards of the game.

[Craig Rollback]

So you guys don't think I could get 20 yards is where we're going to end this. You don't, you don't think shadow hand could get me to 20?

[Steve Mensch]

Nothing. I, I'll be honest.

[Todd McShay]

Before you tried to stretch your hand out and I saw how the lack of flexibility in your hand spin.

[Craig Rollback]

I did massage that though.

[Todd McShay]

There might have been a chance. Then when you told me you never played organized football and your hands don't really spread out. Yeah.

[Craig Rollback]

More vertical length than horizontal, unfortunately.

[Steve Mensch]

I, I, I'm not, I, I thought about that. I, I texted hyphens. I was like, what is happening right here?

[Todd McShay]

Takes things literally.

[Steve Mensch]

I always imagine you really getting messed with a helmet that's maybe a little too big.

[Craig Rollback]

Yeah.

[Steve Mensch]

And you're just trying to run around, not get killed by a pass rusher.

[Craig Rollback]

And you're like the loose sleeves. Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

There's like a, I just have to

[Steve Mensch]

understand like I, I do think this is funny too. You like, you think the screen game, the, the, the, it's this guy that's going to be 15 yards out here. To get the velocity down this pass before a corner, an NFL corner can jump it and take it.

[Danny Kelly]

He's going to bounce the pass.

[Craig Rollback]

He's going to like, we need Shanahan on the, on the show.

[Steve Mensch]

If there's a way to get it done, that would, it would be better, more entertaining than the Pro Bowl. I mean, if we could set it up, I mean, that would be better to watch.

[Danny Hyperton]

There's a bit, I think in not another teen movie, which you guys probably have never seen.

[Craig Rollback]

Yeah, I've seen it.

[Danny Hyperton]

There's a guy that they let him go out on the field and he just gets chopped in half. That's kind of like what I'm picturing.

[Craig Rollback]

Yeah. I'm not saying like Mahomes gets hurt. I come in, no one knows and

[Danny Kelly]

thinks I'm the right.

[Craig Rollback]

And I just have to like hit a post. I'm not saying that I'm like Shanahan for a week is like, all right, if I get Craig to 20 yards, I win a billion dollars.

[Todd McShay]

And you.

[Craig Rollback]

I'm doing some things. Stop.

[Todd McShay]

Toss it forward to Tyreek Hill.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah, like.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, maybe that's what I'm saying. A healthy Tyreek Hill, then like, maybe he could get 20 Tyree kill.

[Steve Mensch]

But it's not what we're talking yards open. You gotta get it.

[Todd McShay]

No, I'm saying like on a, on a, on a jet sweep motion where he just catches it and he instead of go, he goes.

[Craig Rollback]

I mean the, you know, the year 50 touchdowns, like six of them were little flips to Travis Kelsey. The little shuffles forward, the little Tyreeks.

[Danny Hyperton]

Craig's a dot is going to be negative.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, I do think, I do think he'd throw behind Tyreek though, in the motion.

[Craig Rollback]

No way.

[Todd McShay]

He doesn't like just even. Yeah, yeah.

[Danny Kelly]

You took. You're very plugged in. Can you ask one of the gms and you're part of your. Your decision maker series?

[Todd McShay]

Absolutely not.

[Craig Rollback]

A generally athletic 62 civilian. Decently athletic. I would say civilian played sports, you know, I want to know.

[Danny Kelly]

Thank you guys for coming on.

[Todd McShay]

Thanks for having me.

[Danny Kelly]

McShay report. It's phenomenal. You guys have had, I think a quarter of the gyms in the league, even if none of them actually answered the questions. People want to know about Craig's 20 yards passing, but it's phenomenal show. Please check it out. And McShay report. DK's got his draft guide, his top 50 big board NFL draft thrower to come he's McShay report, which is.

[Todd McShay]

I got lost in it down in Mobile. Yeah, I did.

[Steve Mensch]

T.J. parker caught my eye. You were a little higher on him than anyone going into the week. Yeah.

[Danny Kelly]

He's the only one comparing Peter woods to characters in Dune, so that was interesting.

[Todd McShay]

That we'll talk about. Yeah.

[Danny Hyperton]

Not shy. Hallude. Yeah. Yeah.

[Danny Kelly]

Thank you, Shyloot. Thank you, dk. Thank you, Craig. Thank you, Mensch. Thank you. Thank you, Tucker. Thank you, Comer. Thank you, Nick. Nick's got a boat, by the way. Thank you, Jake. Thank you, Austin. Thank you, everyone. Thank you for listening. Oh, thank you, Lauren.

[Craig Rollback]

Lauren.

[Danny Hyperton]

I don't know what that is.

[Danny Kelly]

Oh, no, they don't know what that is.

[Danny Hyperton]

The. What's your favorite band?

[Danny Kelly]

What's happening? We're saying, granting the show.

[Steve Mensch]

I'm a national guy. I like the National. Oh, nice.

[Danny Hyperton]

Oh, that's great.

[Steve Mensch]

There we go.

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[Steve Mensch]

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[Danny Kelly]

Boom. Thank you, National. All right, goodbye, everyone.

[Steve Mensch]

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[Danny Kelly]

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[Steve Mensch]

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[Danny Kelly]

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[Steve Mensch]

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