The Ringer NFL Draft Show

BONUS EP: Combine Deep Dive and Measuring Our Arms With Todd McShay and Steve Muench
February 28, 2026

Episode Overview

In this combine special, hosts Danny Heifetz, Danny Kelly, and Craig Horlbeck are joined by ESPN draft analysts Todd McShay and Steve Muench for a lively deep dive from Indianapolis. The crew blend expert combine analysis and in-the-trenches scouting talk with a series of running jokes—literally—about wingspans, hand measurements, and their own questionable NFL measurables. They debate the draft’s best prospects, positional value, the relevance of arm length, and the philosophy of drafting quarterbacks. All while keeping the tone fun, irreverent, and informative.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

Combine Setting, Dinner, and Shrimpgate (04:30–06:27)

• The episode opens with camaraderie: the group jokes about squeezing together, enjoying dinner, and counting shrimp at Indianapolis' famous St. Elmo's Steak House.
• Conspiracy is floated: the legendary St. Elmo’s shrimp is supposedly getting smaller and “hidden under the horseradish” (05:17)—“It is, right?” (Danny Kelly, 05:21).

Draft Board Debate & Jeremiah Love Discourse (06:27–07:40)

• Jeremiah Love (RB, Notre Dame) is Todd McShay’s No. 1 player—an unusual distinction for a running back.
• McShay confesses the hesitation:

  “I’ve never had a running back number one overall. It…should be a quarterback or…pass rusher. But…identical grades as David Bailey [and] Arvell Reese.” (Todd McShay, 06:33)

• Discussion around how an outstanding combine from front-seven defensive players (David Bailey, Arvell Reese, Sonny Styles) could shift the board.

Arm Length: Myth, Measurement, and Meaning (07:40–15:05)

Why Does Arm Length Matter?

• Steve Muench:

  “Definitely more for a tackle…for a tackle, it just shows up more about pushing guys past the edge… a defensive lineman, you kind of can win in a bunch of different ways.” (08:38)

• They dive into Will Campbell’s arm length “issues,” noting short arms showed up on his college tape and opposing defenses targeted him.
• Todd McShay:

  “There’s almost no point in time ever in football where the offensive tackle is a better athlete in space than the pass rusher coming at him...So arm length becomes important...” (10:27)

Does It Show Up on Tape?

• The group distinguishes between “measurables” and game reality.

  “You can’t just be like, oh, he’s got short arms and whatever. Does it show up on tape?...With Campbell in college it did.” (Steve Muench, 09:41)

Measurement Chaos & The Great Tape Measure Bit

• They attempt to measure each other’s arms live for comparison, recreating combine methods, and quarrel about whether to measure from shoulder, fingertip, or “meat of the shoulder.”
• On Danny Kelly’s claim to 34-inch arms:

  “Let’s just say you went from a day one guy to a day two.” (Craig Horlbeck, 03:24)

• Todd and Steve mock the measuring process, comparing it to “my wife saying a couch will fit there” (Todd McShay, 14:02).
• More hand measurements ensue:

  “I’ve heard set, yo…he could throw for 20 yards in an NFL game with his eight and a half inch hand.” (Steve Muench, 16:19)

Memorable Moment:

• The “can Craig throw for 20 yards in an NFL game” debate:

  “I think I could be schemed up for 20 yards in the game.” (Craig Horlbeck, 16:56)
  “Give him Shanahan...his only goal is to get me to 20 yards. He could do it." (Craig, 17:01)
  “No.” (Both Todd and Steve, immediately, 17:45–17:46)

Quarterback Drafting Philosophy & Ty Simpson (18:47–24:56)

• The gang discusses which QBs not named Mendoza might rise. McShay’s pick: Ty Simpson.
• Todd McShay elevator pitch:

  “Through nine games...he was the best quarterback in the country...then things fell apart...best WR stopped producing, no run game, protections got figured out... plus injuries and gastritis.” (19:23–20:26)

• The group debates Simpson’s lack of elite physical tools but elite processing:

  “Some guys just won’t draft quarterbacks that don’t have an elite trait...where he’s elite is his mind...pre snap, post snap…” (Todd McShay, 21:26)

• Concerns about “1-year wonder” types:

  “It’s scary, man. 13 games you played, 15 starts...and the history tells you that he’s going to have to be a complete outlier...first round picks at 15 starts, like, it doesn’t work.” (Steve Muench, 22:28–22:33)

QB Team Building and Analytics (24:24–27:10)

• Discussion on the value of always taking swings at QBs, echoing Browns GM Andrew Berry:

  “There’s something to say for drafting one every year.” (Steve Muench, 24:39) “You mean you hit, you get like a Russell Wilson and you have that rookie contract... nothing more valuable, right?” (Todd McShay/Steve Muench, 24:50–24:57)

• The crew agree, even analytics-driven teams aren’t above throwing “darts” at the QB board.

  “No one knows. Throw a bunch of darts. The Patriots with the draft, they’re like, no one knows. It’s hard.” (Danny Kelly, 26:18)

Positional Value & Best Player Available (26:53–30:09)

• Real talk about “best player available” versus drafting need—and how boards get subtly stacked to fit team needs.
• Caleb Downs (Safety, Ohio State) discussion: why is a top safety never the clear top pick?

  “I just don’t know who’s a better player than Caleb Downs is.” (Steve Muench, 27:41)

• Danny Heifetz and crew re-litigate the pitfalls of positional value, especially at running back:

  “If Zeke goes to the Cowboys’ best O-line...running backs work. Otherwise, it doesn’t seem to have an impact.” (Danny Heifetz, 27:45)

• McShay notes the impact of scheme and support cast applies for safeties too:

  “The value you get from a safety is predicated on...do you have the people up front to allow him to then go be a star?” (Todd McShay, 28:52)

Reggie Bush and RB Comparisons (31:19–32:35)

• The group debates Mel Kiper’s comp of Jeremiah Love to Reggie Bush.

  “It’s hard to compare someone to Reggie Bush, that’s all.” (DK, 31:55)

• Consensus: Love’s true strength is as a receiver; if anything, he’s closer to Bijan Robinson than Bush.

Sleeper Players and Favorite Picks (34:42–39:59)

• The hosts and guests share under-the-radar draft loves:
  • Dylan Thinnerman: “When you turn on the tape, you’re, like, pleasantly surprised. This guy is legit.” (DK, 35:54)
  • He could play free safety, nickel, and is praised as a “fun player” by McShay (36:29).
• DK’s wide receiver takes:
  • Mai Lemon: Comparable to Doug Baldwin in route running and hands (40:37).
  • Casey Concepcion, Denzel Boston, Jordan Tyson, Omar Cooper: Highlighted for their diverse skill sets.
• The “what if” about shorter receivers being outliers resurfaces.

Running Gags & Energy

• The episode weaves in ongoing friendly ribbing and recurring in-jokes about the hosts’ own arm and hand dimensions, NFL projections, and an earnest plea for a future segment to see if Craig could, truly, gain 20 passing yards in an NFL game.
• Quote:

  “He’s going to bounce the pass.” (Todd McShay, 42:20)
  “If there’s a way to get it done, it would be better—more entertaining than the Pro Bowl.” (Steve Muench, 42:25)

Notable Quotes by Timestamp

• On shrimp sizes:

  “We do have a conspiracy that the St. Elmo shrimp is smaller than it used to be.” (Danny Kelly, 05:17)

• On measuring DK’s arms:

  “Let’s just say you went from a day one guy to a day two.” (Craig Horlbeck, 03:24)

• On Ty Simpson:

  “Through nine games...he was the best quarterback in the country...then things fell apart…” (Todd McShay, 19:23)

• On QB drafting:

  “There’s something to say for drafting one every year.” (Steve Muench, 24:39)

• On positional value for RB/S:

  “If Zeke goes to the Cowboys’ best O-line...running backs work. Otherwise, it doesn’t seem to have an impact.” (Danny Heifetz, 27:45)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [04:30] — Introduction with Todd McShay & Steve Muench, St. Elmo’s shrimp conspiracy
• [06:27] — McShay’s big board No. 1: Jeremiah Love discussion
• [07:40] — Arm length rhetoric & why it matters
• [09:41] — How short arms actually show up on tape
• [13:00] — Live arm measurement antics
• [15:16] — Can Craig throw for 20 NFL yards? The hand size challenge
• [18:47] — Which QB could rise outside of Mendoza? Ty Simpson’s case and debate on “outlier” QBs
• [24:24] — Drafting philosophy: Take a QB every year?
• [26:53] — Does any team actually pick BPA?
• [27:45] — Why “star safety” value is usually overlooked
• [31:19] — Is Jeremiah Love really another Reggie Bush?
• [34:42] — Favorite sleeper players, Dylan Thinnerman, and WR talk
• [40:37] — Makai Lemon as “Doug Baldwin” comp and more WR talk

Tone & Style

The panel maintains The Ringer’s trademark loose, witty, deeply informed conversation—mixing football nerd-speak with roast-style humor. Tangents play off real combine debates (“where does the shoulder start?”), and the podcast’s analytical core shines through even as the crew debates their own NFL eligibility.

Summary Highlights

• Best prospect talk focused on Jeremiah Love and the limits of positional value in a modern draft.
• Combine measurements are both serious and silly, exposing the gray area between tape, traits, and team drafting dogma.
• QB drafting is still a guessing game (“throw more darts!”)—and the rise of Ty Simpson illustrates why NFL team-building never has one answer.
• Arm length and hand size matter, but only so much; the group’s own measurements spark classic NFL combine debates.
• Receiver prospects and safety positional value are on the minds of real NFL decision makers—and The Ringer crew is not afraid to push back on media narratives.
• The humor is constant: repeated jokes about Craig’s quarterback prowess, DK’s wedding “measurements,” and the unending shrimp at St. Elmo’s.

For Listeners New and Old

This episode delivers both smart combine insight and inside-joke banter, making it perfect for hard-core draftniks and casual listeners alike. The friendly chaos of live measurements and real-time debates gives fans a behind-the-scenes look at both the NFL combine and the process of constructing a draft board—and why both are part science, part art, and part running joke among lifelong football addicts.