Harbaugh(!), Pete Carroll, and Stefanski Fired. Plus, DK's First 2026 Mock Draft.

Summary

The Ringer Fantasy Football Show

Episode: “Harbaugh(!), Pete Carroll, and Stefanski Fired. Plus, DK's First 2026 Mock Draft.”
Date: January 7, 2026
Hosts: Danny Heifetz (A), Danny Kelly (B), Craig Horlbeck (C)

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Episode Overview

In this bustling and news-packed episode, Danny Heifetz, Danny Kelly, and Craig Horlbeck react live to seismic NFL coaching changes while unveiling DK’s first 2026 NFL mock draft. The hosts grapple with the surprise firings of legendary coaches—including John Harbaugh, Pete Carroll, and Kevin Stefanski—and debate the effects these moves will have on the league and fantasy football. Along the way, the guys break down the “Black Monday” carousel, analyze organizational dysfunction, discuss the future of top prospects, and bring their signature blend of insight, inside jokes, and unfiltered banter.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Massive NFL Coaching Firings ("Black Monday")

• The episode launches straight into the wave of coach firings that overtook the league after the 2025 season.
  • Pete Carroll (Raiders): Fired after just one disastrous year, with ownership and fans both eager for a fresh start. Carroll’s repeated poor decisions, overreliance on family in key coaching roles, and an inability to adapt his schemes to the modern game are roundly roasted.
  • Kevin Stefanski (Browns): Despite winning two Coach of the Year awards and making the playoffs twice, Stefanski is axed after six years. The hosts argue he overachieved with a carousel of quarterbacks and dubious front office support. They paint the Browns organization as perennially chaotic and likely at fault for the lack of sustained success.
  • Jonathan Gannon (Cardinals): Gannon never gets the defense off the ground in Arizona. The Cardinals chronically lose in division, regress while rivals improve, and even the built-in injury excuse doesn’t save him.
  • Falcons, Giants, Titans: Additional firings and front office moves dissected, with specific attention to the dysfunction in Giants ownership and Atlanta’s sweeping housecleaning.
  • Breaking News: John Harbaugh (Ravens): The firing breaks live during recording, prompting immediate, honest reactions from the hosts. They reflect on Harbaugh's long tenure, understanding the franchise’s need for a new voice but recognizing the gravity of moving on from a 15-year pillar.

Notable Quotes:

• “Every decision Pete Carroll made was wrong.” —Danny Heifetz [07:14]
• "He was a good coach, but he did not show at all that he wanted to adapt to what's happening in the game now."—Danny Heifetz [11:40]
• “Coach of the Year twice, period, is, like, incredible… on the Browns, like, recently.” —Danny Kelly [13:32]
• "It's hard to make two hit shows, you know what I mean?" —Craig Horlbeck [10:05], comparing Carroll’s Seahawks run and Raiders fiasco

Timestamps:

• Raiders/Carroll: [05:30–11:57]
• Browns/Stefanski: [12:16–19:33]
• Cardinals/Gannon: [23:17–25:43]
• Breaking: Harbaugh Firing: [55:48–64:42]

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2. Coaching Carousel Fallout & Organizational Dysfunction

• The hosts stress how ownership meddling (Giants, Falcons), financial mismanagement (Raiders), or lack of vision (Cardinals, Browns) contributes to instability—and how it affects fantasy and real football value.
• The Browns’ QB injury misadventures, and the resulting cap credits from insurance on Deshaun Watson, are used as a teaching point for fantasy drafters and fans.

Quote (on the Browns):

"In those 26 years, the Browns have had 10 GMs, 12 coaches, and 42 quarterbacks in 26 years. So like, it’s probably the Browns’ fault." – Heifetz [15:32]

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3. Which Head Coach Openings are Most Attractive?

• Giants, Titans, Falcons, Browns, Raiders, Cardinals: Each situation broken down for prospects, ownership, talent, and front office interference.
• Consensus: Giants are the best job, due to a promising young QB and more solid on-field pieces.
• Raiders and Browns: high risk, high pressure, multiple head coaches being paid at once, and unresolved QB nightmares.

Timestamp: [28:56–30:23]

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4. DK’s First 2026 Mock Draft

• DK (Danny Kelly) walks through the logic, positional value debates, and prospect quirks of his first mock draft, highlighting a “meat and potatoes” class heavy on trench players and edge defenders.
  • Raiders: Take QB Fernando Mendoza (Indiana) at #1; described as a “rhythm timing passer” in the mold of Matt Ryan or Jared Goff.
  • Jets: Whether Oregon’s Dante Moore will enter draft (or "pull a Manning" to dodge the Jets).
  • Positional Value Tangent: The group debates the wisdom (or folly) of chasing “safe” non-premium positions, e.g., safeties or guards, high in the draft. Caleb Downs (Ohio State) singled out as a rare safety worthy of a top selection.
  • Chiefs at 9th overall(!): The bizarro 2026 draft order prompts a reconsideration of how the mighty are falling.
  • In-depth talk on arm length, trench play, and the new athletic trends—like players showing more skin and less padding.
  • Mock Draft rundown and player comps interspersed with raucous banter.

Selected Quotes:

• “The ultimate bell curve meme… In the beginning, you just think DK Metcalf’s ripped… In the end, you just agree the Seahawks took him because he’s ripped!” —Heifetz [33:43]
• "Caleb Downs is obviously the best defender at any position in America… Caleb Downs is like, you know, Craig, you always joke like, we could probably do a better job with the draft in January if we just stopped it right when the games ended and we just watched the games and we're like, no more information, please, outside of tell me if their knees are fucked up." —Heifetz [53:37]
• “I'm thinking of abandoning positional value altogether.” —Danny Kelly [54:35]

Timestamps:

• Mock Draft Segment: [32:23–91:19]
• Chiefs “at 9th overall” discussion: [82:20–84:55]

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5. Harbaugh’s Firing (Live Reaction)

• The hosts process the shocking live news; speculate on his most likely landing spots (Giants strongly rumored).
• Discuss what his tenure means, why the Ravens felt it was time, and the dangers of letting organizations stagnate for too long under one regime.
• The comparison to Pete Carroll’s fate and franchise “voice fatigue.”
• Jokes about the Mara family, AI-assisted coaching searches, and the economics of trading for a coach.

Quotes:

• “I mean, I, I, I mean, the Giants are gonna hire John Harbaugh. I’m telling you that right now.” —Heifetz [58:49]
• “Your voice at some point… just gets stale.” —Danny Kelly [60:05]

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6. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “If Ty Simpson doesn’t declare for the draft, I think he wouldn't start at Bama…” – Heifetz on QB musical chairs [47:35]
• “The idea that a safety like as special as… Caleb Downs, if he succeeds, it's unquestionably worth the top 10 pick.” —Heifetz [75:23]
• “Palindromes are fun.” —DK, after learning 'Cub Buck' is a palindrome [95:27]
• “It gets people going… It’s like under boob.” —B (on the new lineman fashion of tucking jerseys/pads) [89:04]
• “Lose control… I don't like when… Yeah, Lose Control. I guess that the. I'm embarrassed to say that if that song's on, like, a Starbucks or something and I'm talking to someone. I actually was like, in my head, I'm like, I wish you would stop talking so I could listen to this controls.” —Heifetz, in a sidetracked ending about earworms [98:26]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Timestamps | |------------------------------------------------|-----------------| | Raiders/Pete Carroll Firing | 05:30–11:57 | | Browns/Stefanski Firing | 12:16–19:33 | | Cardinals/Gannon Firing | 23:17–25:43 | | Black Monday Overview / Atlanta / Giants | 28:46–31:31 | | DK’s Mock Draft Deep Dive | 32:23–91:19 | | Harbaugh Firing Live Reaction | 55:48–64:42 | | Palindromes and End-of-Show Banter | 93:48–97:34 |

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Final Thoughts

This jam-packed episode blends up-to-the-minute NFL drama with sharp analysis and patented Ringer comedy. The crew’s fearless takes on legendary coaches getting the axe, the real reasons behind perennial losers, the quirks and chaos of draft season, and honest barroom philosophy (plus a live Harbaugh bombshell) make this an indispensable “state of the league” listen. Whether you’re a fantasy diehard, a draftnik, or just love NFL schadenfreude, this show was a wild ride.

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Listen if you want:

• Football gossip dissected with realities for fantasy, drafting, and team futures
• Laugh-out-loud analogies and tangents about everything from NFL fashion to palindromes
• To understand why the 2026 NFL offseason already feels like madness

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End of Summary

Transcript

[A]

Foreign. We start the show, just want to note John Harbaugh got fired by the Ravens while we were recording this episode. So we are going to talk about that. But when it we find out about it later in the episode, we'll have in the episode description the timestamp if you want to hear directly about that. But there's a reason that when we're talking about all the coach firings, we're not talking about John Harbaugh. So we will get to that, I promise. Okay, let's start the show. Welcome to the Ringer fantasy football show. My name is Danny Hyperts and I'm joined by Danny Kelly and Craig Horbeck. And we have a lot in the show today. A bunch of coaches got fired. We're going to go over that. And Danny Kelly has his mock draft up on theringer.com thank you.

[B]

Glad you picked up on that.

[C]

Hyphas doesn't get it.

[B]

He hasn't seen Dumb and Dumber, which is. What did you say to this day, the weirdest thing ever.

[A]

I know.

[C]

I'm.

[A]

It's, it's. I'm ashamed of it.

[C]

Watch it and then listen to the rewatchables of Jennifer Lawrence.

[A]

I live listen to that. Watchables.

[B]

Anyway, sorry, what were you saying?

[A]

Well, yes, you have a mock draft [e-mail] People can go and look and it's incredible. You got everything right. So we'll just go over that.

[B]

You know, I nailed it.

[C]

Yeah, you're done. You're done. It's January 6th.

[B]

Celebrate Hayes in the barn.

[C]

You don't need to do any more draft work.

[B]

You figured out amazing.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And we're going to go through again a ton of coaching news. The Raiders fired Pete Carroll. The Browns fired head coach Kevin Stefanski. The Cardinals fired head coach Jonathan Gannon. The Falcons fired Raheem Morris, the head coach and the GM Terry Fonteno, and their president and CEO of the team got promoted into irrelevance. Dallas fired the defensive coordinator. The Giants did not fire Joe Shane, the gm. There's just a lot going on. The Dolphins didn't fire Mike McDaniel. So he gets to hire a GM. And then Tua was like, I. He was asked about playing for a new team. He said it would be dope. Lot happened.

[C]

Stop.

[B]

Stop allowing him to talk on camera.

[A]

He hasn't said one normal thing in years. But first, just a quick bit of housekeeping. So starting on Sunday, we are going to be on Netflix. So this show's going to be on Netflix.

[C]

If you listen to Big Time.

[A]

Yeah, here you go. Big time froze coming from this show. Big time froze. Big time shows. Big time shows. Big time froze. Big time foes. So if you listen, if you listen to our show as an audio product, you're good. Nothing's going to change. If you watch our show on Spotify, you're good. Nothing's going to change.

[B]

Great.

[A]

If you watch our show on YouTube, the show is not going to be on YouTube going forward. So there still will be a version you can still watch on Spotify. Video you can still watch on Spotify, the free version. So you don't have to have Netflix to watch our show going forward. You were able to watch on Spotify, but it'd be a lot cooler. You also could watch it on Netflix. You could watch it, put it on Netflix too. And like watch both at the same time.

[B]

Double up. Yeah. If you want to see Craig's face in 4K, come on over to Netflix.

[C]

No one wants to see that.

[A]

So again, covering the playoffs, covering free agency, the draft, DK or draft expert here at the ringer, we're going to be going through the draft, the offseason, the summer, we're going to. You're going to be able to do that all year. So you can go type in ringer on Netflix. We're there and you can go and hit the little remind me button. And then. Yeah, so that's Sunday. But also if it's an audio thing for you, then no changes. Enough plugs. Uh, let's get to the real show here, which we're going to be honest. You know, it's a tough time for fans out there. It's a lot of anger, a lot of resentment, conspiracy theories, you know, Was Kevin Stefanski trying to sabotage shitter Sanders? It's January 6th and let's be honest, this is the day Craig. I think a lot of fans storm the front offices of their teams.

[C]

Yeah, I mean, Austin Gale, specifically Austin Gayle, might have single handedly gotten Pete Carroll fired. Do we have proof of life of Pete Carroll? Because Austin Gayle has been, has his pitchforks out for him. We were talking to him, he's a huge Raider fan before the show started and he was like, I'm so excited for this show. I love the off season, the offseason, best time of year. He's like, I'm a Raiders fan and for us, fuck the season.

[B]

Yeah, this is the show. This is the show.

[C]

And there is a little bit of that. You know what I mean? It's like I Like talking about fantasy football in August more than I do in September. Like, it's the best when you don't know what's going to happen and anything is possible. It's fantastic. And honestly, it starts today.

[B]

There's an element. It's similar to roster baiting. Craig.

[C]

That's right. I mean, which is what Aaron Rodgers does.

[B]

Every tush push, just put your hands on your hips and look at your roster for a while.

[C]

One hand on the hip, the other one.

[B]

Eye contact.

[C]

Yeah, prolonged eye contact. All right, so we're going to run through all the firings. There's been a good amount here is black. Do they call it Black Monday? Is that what we call it?

[A]

Is called Black Monday, but colloquially.

[B]

Colloquially.

[C]

Colloquially.

[B]

That's not right.

[C]

Colloquially.

[B]

Yes, that's it.

[C]

Colloquially.

[A]

You don't say that high.

[B]

Fitz. You try colloquially.

[A]

Oh, yeah, Colloquially.

[B]

It's kind of a tongue twister.

[C]

There are some words that are not one syllable or two. They're. They're one and a half.

[B]

Right.

[C]

Like colloquially. Colloquial is like four and a half.

[B]

Colloquially. Colloquially.

[C]

Colloquially.

[B]

I'm never gonna try and say that again.

[A]

No, we should. That's putting that.

[C]

Also. The word away is not colloquial. It's just. That's a great call.

[A]

Very.

[B]

That's ironic.

[C]

It's not colloquial at all. That word's lost all meaning.

[A]

It's a word fan. Like fancy. Like English posh. People would go and say, like. That's how they describe how the normal people say.

[C]

Well, speaking of Austin Gale being excited for the new. The new chapter of the Las Vegas Raiders. Should we start with the.

[B]

We got it. Firing Pete Carroll, my pick in the preseason for coach of the year.

[C]

Dude. I mean, after week one, they beat the Patriots.

[B]

They beat the patriots. The number one seed. 14 wins.

[C]

They went one and. Oh, beating the Patriots and then went what, two and 14 after that.

[A]

One and 14 in the middle. And then they won again in Week 18 versus Chris Oladokin for the Chiefs.

[C]

Chris Ol. Yeah, Doan. So they kept their gm, Their new gm, John Spytech, who is a real person.

[B]

I'm pretty sure Brady kept Spy Tech.

[C]

Brady, of course. So, yeah, the Raiders have the number one pick in the draft. They had just about as bad of a year as you could have hoped for. They had. They were dead last in points, yards and first downs high. Vince, what are your. I guess do. Do either of you think this was a bad move?

[B]

No. And I'm probably like the biggest Pete supporter at this point. In time left, I still think he's like, I don't know, maybe good coaches, like, too far at this point just because of obviously what happened. I think in the right situation, you'd still be very good coach. But nothing worked the way that they thought it would work. Like, Pete came in and tried to change the culture. It sounds like there was just too much weird stuff going on in the background. It just didn't catch on. The players didn't buy in. They didn't have enough talent. I think it was the right move. I think they. I mean, I. I was wondering if they would have the money to do this, but I think it was ultimately the right move to fire him.

[A]

I. I mean, I don't normally endorse firing a coach after one season, but I think they had to fire him. I mean, the whole Pete Carol's whole thing is competitiveness, right? Like, the Raiders were not competitive. They just were under him. And frankly, every decision P. Carroll made was wrong. I mean, I. I like one. Again, I keep saying this. Six of the teams they played had the best game of the entire season against the Raiders. Right? And you can try to blame Chip Kelly, the offensive coordinator who Pete Carroll hired, but every decision Pete Carroll made was wrong. Like, they traded for Geno Smith, and Geno Smith led the league in interceptions. And you're like, well, maybe it's the coach's fault. He's like, well, the quarterback coach is Pete Carroll's son. You're like, well, maybe it's the offensive line. I mean, Geno Smith led the league.

[B]

It was the offensive line. Yeah.

[A]

Like, okay, well, the line coach is Pete Carroll's other son. And so you're like, well, maybe it's the running game. You're like, well, they drafted Ash and Genti sixth overall. They were last in yards per carry with a running back taken sixth overall.

[C]

Awesome.

[B]

He will be.

[A]

Yeah. And guess what? Who's the run game coordinator also? Pete Carroll's son.

[B]

He has that many sons. How many sons do he have?

[A]

But you get the point. It's like he traded for the quarterback. His sons were in charge of the quarterback and the blocking. They led league and sacks and picks, and they. They just weren't a competitive team.

[C]

Yeah, I agree with DK in that, like, if you just dropped Pete Carroll right now on a talented team, the Steelers, I think he could do a good job. I think there are certain coaches like him where it's like, if he has the talent and, and he. He can create that buy in if he has kind of the right roster around him. When you have the number one pick in the draft and you're going to be bringing in a new quarterback, and the whole idea is like, okay, we are resetting once again and we need to start fresh. It's hard to do that with the oldest coach in the history of the NFL.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Not ideal.

[B]

I think this is like, going to sound like I'm defend. I'm. I don't know, like standing for Pete Carroll or whatever. But I do think, like, if you're looking at the parallels of the way that the Seahawks got started and versus the way that the Raiders got started, like, I think number one, the Seahawks had a little bit more talent. I think it helped that Pete Carroll had overall control of everything in the organization, where I don't think he had that in. In Las Vegas, it was more of like a collaborative thing between the GM and the owner and. And Brady and whoever. And then it did take like the stars lining a little bit of luck. Like, if you remember in the Seahawks first their first season under Pete Carroll, it went 7 and 9. They. They managed to make the playoffs and then they had one of the most magical wins I've ever seen in my life to like, ignite this flame. It's like, you know, the first year is kind of like, yeah, the beast quake to beat the Saints, who were the defending super bowl champions in Seattle after they had gone 7 and 9 and made the playoffs. Everyone's all mad about this. And then they won. And so I think there was a little bit. There was an element of magic to that. And then after that season, the Seahawks started signing all these big free agents. It became a place where everyone wanted to go. There was excitement. They had an amazing facility in Seattle right on the water. Like, I remember the vibe shift in the early part of the P. Carroll era. He was like doing things a lot of coaches weren't doing at the time. He's like playing music. He's got the college atmosphere. He's like out there running around. Yeah, he's like playing catch with the.

[A]

Players standing up on his skin. Just thinking about it, I think that.

[B]

What I'm getting at here is it's kind of hard to recreate that magic. And he basically like it it. The. The embers went out before they ever could catch flame here in. In Las Vegas. It just didn't catch on.

[C]

It's hard to make two hit shows, you know what I mean?

[A]

Like, and say honestly, weirdly, the same thing that I related what I was going to say which is sometimes I, I think the more I do this, the more I realize that success is when someone who's been doing your kind of thing for a long time and then the meta, the game within the game moves to where you're going. And like, look at like the Chiefs, for example, with Andy Reid, who for like 25 years never really had a great running game. And then the Chiefs won three Super Bowls in a weird five year period where teams could kind of win the super bowl without really having a running game. Just a weird era of the NFL and they kind of dominated. And Pete Carroll had these beliefs of how you should play defense. And then the Seahawks became one of the best defenses ever in a strange period, five year period of NFL history where that was the perfect way to play. And I actually think sometimes it's like the right man at the right moment. It's like Winston Churchill wouldn't have been a good leader in peacetime, but he was great for wartime. He was looking for a fight his whole life. And it's like a lot of life is like that.

[B]

They kicked him out right after the war was over.

[A]

Yeah, right. They're like, we don't need you anymore. You're not gonna. You can't stay in charge. And I think that's kind of what this is with. He's trying to do this Def. Defense from 15 years ago. And he's like, well, I'm coaching guys up. And I'm like on something that has not been in vogue for five years, like. And I, I know. And I harp on that point because they weren't competitive and he was trying to win. The Raiders lost to the Chiefs 31 to nothing. The Chiefs had more play. The Chiefs had more points than the Raiders had plays. Like, the Raiders played the Browns and Shadur Sanders and his first career start for Shadur Sanders. They lost by 14 points in Shadow's first start. Like the Raiders play the Eagles. The Eagles defense had their best game in 70 years. Seven. Zero.

[B]

Jeez.

[A]

And the worst part about that is Pete Carroll was alive when they did that. But they, you know, and so I just, they. He was a good coach, but he did not show at all that he wanted to adapt to what's happening in the game now.

[C]

Good coach, great legacy, bad fit, the right move.

[A]

And going forward, the Raiders are now looking for their sixth coach in six years, which is really bad.

[B]

Damn.

[C]

And how many of them are they still paying? 3, dude.

[A]

Probably 2.

[B]

Yeah, this is what I was saying. I was like, I think Pete might survive simply because they don't want to pay another coach, but the next guy's.

[A]

Gonna have at least three seasons just because of that.

[C]

For sure.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Okay, let's. The next firing here. The Browns fired Kevin Stefanski, and they kept their gm, Andrew Barry. I want to run through a little bit here what Stefanski did with the Browns. He's been the coach since 2020, so 1, 2, 3, 4. He had six seasons with him. And first of all, I want to start here. Dk, I'm assuming you're. You're kind of know. You know where I'm going to go based on this question, but if you just have to blindly guess, like, how old do you think Kevin Stefanski is? How old does he feel to you?

[B]

50.

[C]

He's 43.

[B]

Oh, sorry. Sorry, Kevin. Sorry, Kevin.

[C]

He.

[B]

This is like being a president. Being the. Being the coach of the Browns ages you.

[C]

Like, really quickly, before and after smoking cigarettes.

[B]

Just looks like hell.

[C]

But no, you. You fell directly into my trap because I thought as well, he was like.

[B]

I was like I was being genuine, though, like, that. I was like 50. I don't know.

[A]

Pete Carroll is 73 and has the energy of a 43 year old, and Stefan is like, 43 and looks like a 73 year old.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So I'm 43, by the way.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, not that I look young, but, like, you don't have as much as Kevin.

[C]

Yeah, so. So Kevin Savanti is 43 years old. He's won coach of the year twice on the Browns, which I feel like does not get. We don't really talk about that.

[B]

Coach of the year twice, period, is, like, incredible on the Browns, like, recently.

[C]

They'Ve played three playoff games in the last six years, which is a lot more than most teams. I want to run through what Stefanski has done on the Browns. Bear with me here for a minute as I run through this.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

His first season on the Browns, 2020, they went 11, 5. They made the playoffs. He won coach of the year. His quarterback the entire time was Baker Mayfield. They were 11 and 5.

[B]

Was that Baker Mayfield's second year? First year, second year, third, third.

[C]

Third year, second, third.

[A]

He was 28.

[B]

I think it was 2018. Yeah.

[C]

Yeah. And that's when they beat the Steelers in the playoffs. 2021, they go 8, 9, mostly Baker Mayfield as the starting quarterback. 2022, they go 7 and 10 with Jacoby Bruschette, Brissette, and Deshaun Watson. So. So he started his career 11 and 5, 8, 9, 7 and 10. Then 2023, he goes 11 and 6 wins coach of the year again. And his quarterbacks that season were Joe Flacco for five games, DeSean Watson for two, P.J. walker for two, Dorian Thompson Robinson for three, and Jeff Driscoll for one. They went 11 and six that year. P.J. walker, they. They went to the playoffs, they lost to the Texans. He won coach of the year with those quarterbacks. The next year, 3 and 14. His quarterbacks are Jameis Winston, DeSean Watson, Dorian Thompson Robinson and Bailey Zappi. And this year they go 5 and 12 with Shador Dylan Gabriel and Joe Flacco. So he's 45 and 56, his total record. He's 1 and 2 in the playoffs. To me, if this is like a. You know what? It's stale now. He's been here for too long. We just need. We need fresh. We need fresh air. I get it. I think Stefanski is a great coach, and I think he, like Hivetz. He's interviewing. Schefter reported today that he's interviewing with the Giants on Wednesday.

[B]

He got. He got job requests, like, immediately the Giants.

[A]

I would be. I would be so angry if the Giants didn't hire him. I kind of think the Giants will hire Kevin Stefanski because of what you just said. They're going to look at that. You want made the playoffs with five quarterbacks.

[C]

To me, he is by far the best option out there right now. And he's probably the only guy who I genuinely feel like I know is a good coach.

[A]

I want to start and end with. I will always lean toward the right answer. Is Occam's razor. Is it was the Browns fault? Because just again, the Browns were reborn as a franchise in 1999, and that's like kind of the modern team. And in those 26 years, the Browns have had 10 GMs, 12 coaches, and 42 quarterbacks in 26 years. So, like, it's probably the Browns fault. But the middle. There is weird stuff with Stefanski because on one hand, objectively the most successful coach the Browns have had. Again, they have made the playoffs without him one time and with him twice. But also it's weird that the best game they had the entire. Frankly, the best game the Browns have had in the modern era. Stefanski had Covid and was in his. He was like on his couch television.

[C]

The Browns had more playoff wins than the Steelers in the. In the 2000s.

[A]

That's crazy. Like, because here's.

[B]

We're more than halfway through. Wait, no, we're exactly halfway through, I.

[A]

Guess Myles Garrett maybe was just bitter, but the fact that after the. Again Miles Garrett, quite the platform when you've just broken the sack record. And they asked him about Stefanski, do you want him back? And he said, I mean, he, he said my experience with Kevin, like anything. We've had ups and downs, unfortunately more downs than ups. And then he just didn't say any. Like, he kind of just had like a word soup but didn't take. I mean, when Drake London is out here saying for the Falcons, he's like, I want Raheem Morris back with my entire heart. And then Miles Garrett is saying about Kevin Stefanski, I would have loved to make a little bit more noise in some different years, but it wasn't in the cards like he did a little bit more.

[C]

Jesus Christ. They won 11 games twice. They won eight games once. Like, what the hell was he supposed to do? You know why they probably liked Raheem Morris? Because it's been two seasons and Raheem Morris is a great guy and a motivator and all that stuff. Myles Garrett has been with Kevin Stefanski fucking dogging it every year for half a decade. I understand that. It's probably like the message is falling on deaf ears at this point. They're. They're 8 and 26 over their last two seasons. Of course, Malice Garrett's probably like, yeah, I think this has run its course. I don't think that means Stefanski's a bad coach.

[A]

And we'll talk. We're going to do DK's mock draft after we go through the coach stuff. But in terms of these coach openings, I don't know what you guys think is the best. I think the Browns one is the worst because there's a weird mix of pressure. Jim Schwartz, the defensive coordinator, if he doesn't get the job, like everyone's going to say he should be the guy. The defense is elite. But you the quarterback room for the Browns next year is Deshaun Watson off a multi still.

[B]

There's injury still there, by the way.

[A]

Still there going to be on the team next year going to be making $46 million off of multiple Achilles terrors because he tore it and retort it. And Shador Sanders and then I assume also Dylan Gabriel, like that's your quarterback room entering next year for the Browns.

[C]

We don't talk enough about how DeSean Watson retort his Achilles. He tore it twice, right? I never heard of that.

[A]

And it saved the Browns from this contract because basically they insured desean Watson's contract for injury. And so they're getting reimbursed for games he missed for injuries and cap credits the following season. It's like a tax refund. And so they're getting the $46 million they spent on him this year credited to next year's cap. So they're getting it undone. So the Achilles surgery saved them.

[C]

They're, like, inviting him to, like, play all these extreme sports in the off season.

[A]

Yeah, it's like, Jalen Hurts has no golf in his contracts. Like Deshaun Watson. It's like you have to go wakeboarding.

[C]

They're like, you should try skateboarding.

[B]

You guys. You guys have seen Tombstone, right?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, there's a scene. Billy Bob Thornton is like this. Really? He's just swearing he's a car dealer or whatever, and then Wyatt Earp, like, takes him by the ear and, like, throws him outside or whatever. And then they see Doc Holliday out there. They start chatting, and then Billy Bob Thornton's just, like, standing there on the side. And then finally, Doc Holliday or whoever is like, oh, I'm sorry. I forgot you were there. You may go now. I'm just. It's like. That's, like, how I'm picturing, like, every practice with Deshaun Watson there. Oh, I'm sorry. I forgot you were here. You can go now.

[C]

He limps away. Yeah, I think he. I would be very excited for you, Heifitz, if I want. I want the Giants to hire Kevin Stefanski. I feel like him with that defensive line and with. With dart and Neighbors and Scatter Boo is great.

[A]

We can talk about. I mean, the Giants. You mentioned the Giants. I mean, they kept Joe Shane as gm. And I just want to shout out Dan Dugan at the Athletic who wrote, I just got to read this headline that they ran at the Athletic. I can't heap it.

[C]

He went hard.

[A]

The quote is the headline. Giants decision to bring back Joe Shane as GM makes it clear they have no standards anymore. And they said, journalism's dead.

[B]

That is good for him.

[A]

I mean, this is the best thing. This article by Dan Dugan at the Athletic is the best article anyone has written on the Giants in 10 years. It's the best summary of it. I can't shout it out enough. But he points out, I won't go deep that deep into it. The mayor of family that owns half the team is entrenched in the personnel department. They're unfirable. And this is the problem. And whether Joe Shane is A figurehead or maybe he's incredible at his job. The point is like he's kind of COVID for John Mayr who owns the team. His brother Chris Mera is like running the personal department. John Mara's nephew also like runs the personnel department. He's like. And they're just entrenched over this and the idea that they would keep a GM who again, if you take out the four games they like half of their last eight wins were in week 17 and 18 to lose the number one pick, literally their wits cost them the number one pick. Take those out. They're 4 and 27 the last two seasons.

[B]

Are there any other parallels outside of Dallas? Because I know like Jerry Jones and his family kind of like run the Cowboys. Are there any other teams in the NFL right now that like the family guys are like involved?

[A]

It's the Lakers also, I guess now.

[B]

The Colts a little bit with.

[A]

But she's involved. But she's. I think Carly Ur Gordon is doing like the due diligence to work enough departments to know how people's jobs work. When the Lakers just sold to the Walton family, or I forget Mark Walters, whatever his name is, the first thing they did when they, that deal closed is they fired all the bus family members from the scouting department. They were ousted like, like, like day one.

[B]

It's just. Yeah, it's just asking, asking for trouble.

[A]

If the Giants sold to the Koch, the Koch brothers, the, the, the widow of, of the David Koch who bought a minority share because they needed money. Do you guys know this? The Giants grandfather bought the team in 1925 for $500.

[B]

What's that in. In today dollars? Do you know? I don't know.

[A]

Like not that much. The rumor is it was like horse racing money. Like the Steelers and Giants, just like what they had a good day at the track and they bought a football team that was in debt and they have. And they just have this now. Anyway, don't even get me started. But they're everywhere.

[B]

No, I like getting you started.

[A]

They'd all be fired.

[C]

High.

[B]

Fitz. I saw there was an interview. I didn't watch the actual interview, but I was kind of seeing the excerpts from it. There was a spot where Joe Shane was asked how he's going to find the next head coach. And there was. He mentioned using AI to help. Did you see this part? Did you see this?

[C]

This was in the article.

[B]

No, I think this was different. Hold on, let me pull it up. This is a tweet that I saw says Joe Shane on a Different approach this time. And selecting another Giants head coach mentions the longer Runway to do research. Blah, blah blah. Watching Thursday coordinator press conference as well as using AI in certain products.

[A]

Yeah, I can do that too. I'm gonna go to chat GPT right now. Hey, who should the Giants hire as their next head coach?

[B]

I'm like, dude, is there that many resumes? You're like using AI to like, let me pull the resumes.

[A]

Hold on to kids searching the web. Number one, Kevin Stefanski.

[C]

Done.

[B]

Okay, there we go. Why are you using AI? Your whole fucking job is to make this decision.

[C]

If you don't get up every morning and ask yourself, how can I leverage AI to do a better job, you're doing the wrong thing.

[A]

I mean, sure, just not a red blooded American. You don't ask ChatGPT. What do you think number two is? Mike McCarthy. Maybe these things need a better learning model. Anyway.

[B]

They just.

[C]

I think, yeah, okay, we can move on here. The next firing we have is the Cardinals fired Jonathan Gannon after three seasons. They went 3 and 14 this year. Overall, Jonathan Gannon went 15 and 36.

[B]

Arguably the Cardinals a more obvious firing than the Pete Carroll one.

[C]

What are the more underrated disasters since this person got the job is Jonathan Gannon. The Cardinals have just been bad for, for a while now. And specifically with Jonathan Gannon. The defense never really took off as people expected. The Kyler Murray thing continued to be an absolute disaster and they shadow benched him.

[B]

Austin had a stat the other day. Austin, throw it in the chat if you, if you have it. So it was like his, his success rates on defense over the three years he was the coach of the Cardinals is like I think 30th or worse every year. I can't remember it off top of my head. But the defense just never got better.

[A]

I mean this fight, was it a firing or was it like a pew, pew, pew, you know what I mean? I don't know, but I think Gannon was fired in a nutshell. Like every team in the NFC west got better while he was the coach. Except the Cardinals who got worse. And like I.

[B]

Well, technically, hold on. Austin just sent it. Technically, they did get better. 23, they were 32nd in defensive success rate. 20, 24, they were 31st. And then this year, 20, 25, 30.

[C]

Give them 29 more years.

[B]

There you go.

[A]

That's like Kyle Pitts had a touchdown one year, two is second year, three, third, four is fourth.

[C]

By the time five, he's going to have 15.

[A]

Like you'll have like 30 touchdowns a year. Eventually, I.

[B]

What happened to patience in this league?

[A]

Do you know how many games the Cardinals won in their division this year?

[C]

Fucking zero.

[A]

Zero. They went zero six in the division. Their last four divisional games, the Cardinals are outscored by 90 points and they. In three years, the record inside the division is three and 15. And so, like, that's it. All the other NFC west teams are legit super bowl contenders. The Seahawks are the 1 seed. The Niners almost were the 1 seed. And the Rams might be better than both those teams. And they're also in the playoffs and like, they're not even close. And the only excuse Jonathan Gannon has is, well, we're really injured. And that's true because the Cardinals actually have more players on IR than any team this year. And they probably had the most games lost of starters to injuries this year. Like top three running backs and Kyler Murray and Marvin Harrison Jr. You know, yet the Niners with the second most injured team, and they literally were almost the 1 seed in the NFC.

[C]

So I don't want to hear it like, Kevin Stefanski went 11 and 6 with Joe Flacco and Dorian Thompson Robinson two years ago and still got fired. Like Jonathan Gannon. Like, it doesn't make the cut. I'm sorry.

[A]

So do you think 100 after. I. I have to. I. We should pour one out because he. One of the more quotable coaches. The whole time we've done the show, the. You got fire in your gut. You take the bus to work?

[B]

Did you take the bus to work today? Yeah.

[C]

The unintentional comedy. We should rank unintentional comedy coaches.

[A]

We sh. That is great because I also liked it. I have to. Okay. Also, we saw. I was it with Dudk. We saw him when you're outside St. Elmo's in Indianapolis and only seeing him in person and he was having a conversation. Hearing him, I was like, oh, my God, he's Kendall Roy.

[B]

Right?

[A]

And hearing him in person, I was like, oh, like, that's exactly who he is in real life.

[B]

This is. This is like one of those things where like Joe Shane, take note, man. AI is not going to help you with this. Like, you're going to be. You're going to be leading a team. You know, during the off season, it's like 100 plus guys in the season, 53 men on the. On the active roster. And those men have to respect you. And these are like the alpha dogs of the fucking alpha dog dogs in the world. Most of these players are just you know, you have to earn their respect. It just never felt like he could command a room. And. And we saw the videos. It was like, so awkward. It's so weird. Every time he was interacting with a player, we're like, this is like the most cringe worthy thing in the world. I also think it's funny that if you see on Eagle's Twitter right now, like, everyone is like, oh, God, this was the easiest. Like we. We could have told you this, like, immediately when he was hired. Everyone on Eagles Twitter, like, hates Jonathan Gannon. He was like, interviewing. Yeah, he was like, interviewing during super bowl week and all this.

[A]

I mean, an underrated thing about coaches and interviewing is Jonathan Gannon interviewed and silent, silently accepted the Cardinals job during the Super Bowl. Then the Eagles gave up 38 points in lost the game and. Which never gets discussed, but it does.

[B]

Get discussed by Eagles fans on Twitter.

[C]

Change the rule. You can't do that anymore, right? The interviews.

[B]

Yeah, but like, I think it's like, there's less window now. Yeah.

[A]

Which of these 31 billionaire owners made $20 billion by like following all the rules?

[B]

But anyway, it's kind of a bummer because I like having one less team in the NFC west to worry about. So now if they get a good coach, I'm gonna have to worry about the freaking Cardinals now. I think the other thing to mention here is the Cardinals over the. I don't know how many years they've been doing the NFLPA has been doing these reviews of the different. There's like, different aspects. They all get inter. They all take a poll of like, how the franchise leadership treats them, how the facilities are, how the medical staff is, the food, all that stuff. I think the Cardinals have been either last or second to last the last couple of years. So, like, yeah, from top to bottom, just a. The organization is, you know, I don't. It goes under the radar that they're one of the worst organizations out there. I think everyone kind of like thinks.

[A]

Guys, they were taking box lunch deductions out of people's paychecks.

[B]

They're like making people pay for daycare during game days and stuff.

[A]

It's like, I don't know the other one. I know we hit the Falcons one, but they fired Raheem Morrison, they fired the gm, Terry Fontano, but they actually also fired the president and CEO of the team, Rich McKay.

[B]

I think that flew under the radar.

[A]

I don't know if people care, but he's there for 20 years. So it's like, I feel like that's that. Now I'm actually mad right now from Arthur Blank because he's in his 80s.

[C]

Out of the, out of these 14. Well, I guess we should include the Titans and the, and the Giants. Right. So we just went through Raiders, Browns, Cardinals and Falcons fired their coaches after week 18. And then the Giants, Titans fired their coaches mid season. That's it. Right. Six openings right now. Yeah, I'm, I'm the best one.

[A]

I think I'm biased. I think the Giants are the best. All these teams are flawed, but, like, organizationally too. The owners, you start to think about it, they're all kind of weird, but I think the Giants are the best. You have Jackson Dart is like, legit good and you have, you have a left tackle, you have defensive line pieces. Like, there's more there with the quarterback than I think anywhere.

[C]

Yeah, I think I would probably go Giants one. I think maybe you could talk yourself into Cam ward, the Titans 2, and then it's Falcons 3, just because of the talent on the team. And then you're kind of bottom of the barrel with Brown's Raiders.

[A]

I would say Raiders neck. I would say the Raiders are there solely because you're the first. You could take Fernando.

[C]

I guess it depends if you think Mendoza is better than Cam Ward.

[A]

Do you think Fernando Mendoza is better than Camborg? If Cam Ward was in this draft, we hadn't seen him in the NFL yet. Who would you take first off the.

[B]

Top, off off the cuff? I would probably still take Cam Ward, but I mean, there's going to be teams, I think, that do like Mendoza more just because of the type of passer he is. He's like a rhythm timing passer. I think I'm sure people are going to love the fact that he, like, was instrumental in elevating Indiana to a national football, like, contender.

[A]

The Indiana thing is actually the most insane thing. I, I, Indiana was just a punchline for literally, like, they were the worst team in college football for 150 years.

[B]

And I think that's the exact type of player you need. It's not just Fernando Mendoza that's done that. They have a good team, but like, you know, a player that can elevate a program that has done nothing before, like, that's exactly what you're looking for. Like, like the narratives, like, make a ton of sense for him to go to the, to the Raiders right now and kind of like, help them, you know, pull that team out of the funk that they're in. But I think, you know how he's how he's put together in terms of like his personality, his leadership, his. The way that he plays football. I think there's gonna be teams that love this guy. I think like tools wise, Cam Ward's way more exciting and I don't know what, what do you think of Cam Ward's rookie year? I don't really know what to make of it. I think overall it's promising.

[A]

I think he was great. I mean, it doesn't have to be like an amazing rookie year, but like he flashed. I mean, look at the gap between Drake Flashes and to Drake Mace might win, probably going to win MVP this year. Cam Ward, I think he had more flashes than Drake May did. He played. Obviously he ended the season in a sling, which is crazy. I think Cam Ward was great and got better. I think you saw it early in the beginning, but there was like, obviously the Titans were awful, but KMW consistently got better. I think he did. The whole reason you draft guys for upside, like the uncoachable, unteachable. I'm going to make something out of nothing right here with Khmer DK just open and like Khmer DK feels like Kirkland Brand, Debo Samuel, like, he's unbelievable. And like the fact that you have a quarterback with like, I mean, I think DK is like a legit guy and I think, you know, and everything else. There's enough of an offensive line there too that I, I'm very bullish on Cam Ward.

[C]

Yeah. I think the takeaway is like, I'm willing to see this out. And there were moments if you, if you check the stat sheet, Cam Ward looked terrible. If you actually watched Kim Ward, his receivers were terrible and dropped a lot of passes and he made a lot of incredible throws. That was like pretty high.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Stuff.

[C]

So, yeah, I would say it's like a hopeful TBD with Camborn.

[A]

But with that said, let's just go into the mock drafts. DK, you have a mock draft [e-mail] and for those who don't know, DK has our draft expert here for I guess, eight years. And like you have an amazing nine years and you have an amazing big board that comes out like end of January. Just a whole draft guide that comes out and it's awesome. And you are the player comp king, which we'll get into later this month. But you have your first mock because now the draft order is set and for the.

[B]

Yeah, first.

[A]

Whatever it is, the first 18 picks.

[C]

Or whatever, it's your first and last mock, right?

[A]

Yeah, we're not doing it again.

[B]

I got it perfectly. And who cares about the other teams?

[C]

Was it fun doing the first mock of the year for you?

[B]

It was. It's kind of fun to, like, sketch it out. I feel like mock drafts get made fun of a lot because there's a million of them. And, you know, you get like, three, right? And you're like the. Like the greatest mock a little bit.

[C]

Like talking about your fantasy football team and say, hey, look at my mock draft.

[A]

Like, hey, buddy.

[B]

That. That being said, I do think there's a lot you can learn from putting together your own mock drafts. I think you go do a mock draft and. And like, really think about what the teams need and what direction they might go. Like, you know, and it gives. It's instructive on what kind of players they have going into free agency. What guys on the team are getting older, what they have to start thinking. It is like, one of those things where the exercise of doing a mock draft is a good way of kind of like getting a big picture of the NFL at large. And so that's from that point of view. I think it's fun. Even though I'm sure I'll get like, zero of these right doing mon.

[A]

It's the ultimate bell curve meme of, like, the dumb guy in the beginning and then there's like, all the nerd stuff in the middle, and then the. The wise guy at the end just agrees. Like, it's the ultimate. Like, I think they're going to take dk. Metcalfe's ripped. And then you do all this. Well, he can't actually turn. He kind of turns like a battleship, but he actually had a deck Komis. And it's like, nah, the cx t's ripped.

[C]

That's like me and DK's mock. I do my only mock the day before the draft, and DK does 20 all off season.

[A]

We didn't make a big enough deal about this. There's this competition called the Huddle Report. I forget how I think hundreds, maybe thousands of entries. And we joked about it, and we didn't submit it on time because we forgot. We joked. Craig just did a mock the Wednesday morning before the draft with his sources. And there's two ways they grade it. Direct team to player comparisons, and then just how many players in the first round. Craig got 31 of the 32 players in the first round. Correct, which would have won the competition. And we.

[B]

I did that the year before. I got 31 out of 32.

[A]

We would have won it two years in row.

[B]

No. As soon as I enter it, I'm gonna get the worst grade of everyone in the world.

[A]

Well, that's why I. We need to remember, but won't tell you.

[C]

Yeah. On the flight to. Where was the drive? Chicago. On the flight to Chicago, I did it. I threw headphones in for an hour. Kind of was pulling myself like Dr.

[B]

Strange. Yeah.

[C]

A lot of things are coming in out of my ears. I was like. I was doing a lot. It took about an hour. That's all I need. That's all you really need. Keep that in mind, dk.

[B]

You're like. You're like Tom Cruise in Minority Report. Like, putting all the different stuff on the screen and moving it around.

[C]

They always need gloves. All right. Yeah. Do you want to just run through this Mark? We'll start here with the Raiders, first pick in the draft. Austin, A new. A new beginning. You have the Raiders taking Indiana quarterback Fernando Mendoza.

[B]

Yeah. And mainly for the memes. That's what I'm looking for. Fernando Mendoza, kind of like a dorky, you know, white bread. He.

[A]

Dude, he speaks in, like, LinkedIn paragraphs.

[B]

Okay, well, you know what I mean. He's, like, in the Kirk Cousins, like.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Area as, like, kind of like a dorky guy.

[C]

Look like 50 Cent.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And.

[B]

And him going to Vegas is just gonna be. The memes are gonna be out of control.

[A]

Really enthusiastic Capitol Hill intern.

[B]

Yeah, totally.

[C]

Eager beaver.

[B]

Eager beaver is exactly right.

[C]

You know, I don't know. I think there's the jokes about, like, oh, my God, Fernando Mendoza's in Vegas is, like, the weirdest fit. Maybe it's great. Maybe you need somebody who.

[B]

You need someone who's not going to want to leave the facility.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

If they start an NBA team in Vegas, you probably don't want James Harden. Like, maybe Fernando Mendoza is the perfect pick for Las Vegas.

[A]

It's the ultimate. Like, he's just going to go to.

[C]

Like, wizard of Oz at the Sphere every night. That's all he'll do.

[B]

He's going to go to Circus Circus.

[A]

And, you know, dude, the fact that he could just talk like that after just absolutely throttling and, like, at the end of the. Of the Bama era of college football, and he just, like, pants is them. And I know it's the whole team in the defense, but, like, he is unbelievable. He's really good. And.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Who. You don't have to have a final answer here, but who. How would you explain. Who's his comp. Ish or what? Is the mix. Like, how would you explain Fernando Mendoza?

[B]

So shout out Nate Tice. His first comp was Matt Ryan, and I can definitely see that. I've seen the. The Jared Goff comp thrown out a lot, too, because golf, if you remember, he was the first pick, and golf has. He's not mobile. And I don't think Fernando Mendoza, he's like. I think he's more mobile than golf, but he's not like.

[A]

Yeah, I see it.

[B]

But like, he's more of like a. You know, he's the. He's in that category of drop back at your back foot, timing accuracy, and throw with anticipation, distribute the football. He's got a. He's got a pretty deep ball. He's been good on, like, the money downs. And so, like, there's a lot to like there. But I think that's kind of. It's like the C.J. stroud, Jared Goff, Matt Ryan, pocket passer sort of archetype, I think is kind of what you're looking at.

[C]

I'm excited to form my entire opinion of him based on this Oregon game coming up.

[A]

I do. The fact that. Well, I was going to say the.

[B]

Fact that the guy that they're going.

[A]

Against in the College Football Playoff is playing Oregon and if he enters the draft, which we'll get to, But Dante Moore Jr. The quarterback from Oregon, would be. What do you think? Do you see the. I guess Mendoza, he could be the first pick.

[B]

Yeah. I think it's like, it depends on the team. It depends on what they're looking for. I think Dante Moore is like the classic the tools are better. It's kind of like exactly the conversation we just had with, like, Cam. Cam Ward. It's like the tools are better. And I think the upside, whatever that means, is probably, like, higher. But Dante Moore, one year. One year and change as a starter, so there's not as much film out there on him. I think the impression right now I have is that people will go back or that. That Dante Moore will go back to school, but who knows?

[A]

Craig said as an offhand comment that the jets getting the second pick means Dante go back to school. And it's been rattling around my. My head all week. I'm like, that just sounds true. We'll see what happens.

[C]

Obviously, I mean, he's only played one real season in college football, like, as.

[B]

A. I mean, also, Oregon is not short on cash, if you will, Five.

[C]

Six million bucks more to come back and try to win another national championship. If they win this year. And it's like, and you want us to go to the Jets. I mean, the caveat there is, like, that doesn't guarantee the jets won't be terrible again next year. And you might just land up, end up on the jets anyway.

[B]

I know, right?

[A]

Let me read you an email from Nick because I think that this sums up many people are thinking as they listen and bone. Nick wrote, I was considering reaching out just because of, you know, Craig having that thing of like, Dante will go back to school to avoid playing for the jets, which isn't like Peyton Manning did, that he went back to Tennessee because the jets had the first pick. Good job. So Nick wrote, I would not advise anyone to play for the Jets. However, $52 million is. $52 million, which is the projected guaranteed money for the number two pick this year.

[B]

It's very different. Yeah.

[A]

And so Nick Wright, something Dante Moore might not get if he waits until next year for a better situation with potentially more depth or potentially getting drafted by another bad team. Seems like a potentially bad business decision with the draft class next year that might be better with quarterbacks overall and overall talent. People like Jeremiah Smith are there. So maybe now is an excellent time to sell that. Highly drafted quarterbacks drafted by the jets and Browns like Baker Mayfield and Darnold and Judah Smith have succeeded elsewhere. And Nick says, I've never been offered $52 million to do anything, but if I had the opportunity to be the number two pick in the draft or go back to Oregon and make good money, I would go to the draft.

[B]

Which, I mean, that's. Yeah, of course.

[C]

That's like. That's always. The argument is like you're. It's a. It's a risk to go back. You could get hurt. Things change. You don't play as well. There's better quarterback competition in the draft. And then before you know it, you're like the 28th pick and you're making half the money, which is totally fair.

[A]

I politely. I don't know. It depends. There's multiple ways to see it. I actually disagree with Nick. I think this is exactly what NAL has changed. Because you know what sucks ass, which you know, not in theory but in reality, is being the quarterback for the Jets. You know what's really sick?

[C]

Being the quarterback and getting like 6 million bucks to do it.

[A]

That's the thing he's going to get. He's getting two and a half now. Two and a half million dollars, I believe now the NIL reporting is weird. He could probably get four. Maybe you Might push for five million dollars for Dante more to stay at home.

[B]

I think in addition to the money, there are real reasons that he would go back, which is to get more experience at the college level. He's only been a starter for one year and change. So basically he started a couple of years or, sorry, a couple games for ucla, but then sat behind Dylan Gabriel last year.

[C]

Yeah, he sat five games for UCLA two years ago and then out. Since then he's played 13 games.

[B]

The, the history of guys that have played that few starts in the, in college going to the NFL is like, it's littered with guys that just, you know, just never developed. So I think it's like he, he has, it's more than just purely, I get more money if I go to the NFL. Like you're thinking about your entire career here. Like, I just need the reps.

[A]

There's a larger conversation we're going to have about quarterbacks and just there always was an apprentice era where guys would, and it used to be you'd go to the NFL and you'd sit for a couple years and that was normal. And now it's like you're going to play college football for a lot of money if you're good. And that's going to be the apprenticeship. And I think that's kind of what we're going to see with guys going back. But I, if it was any other team, I feel like we would say, well, I don't know, Craig. I mean, I, I, I feel like we're in that era now. Like it's, we're in the post Anthony Richardson era and whether it lasts two years and then we have one good example of an inexperienced guy reverses it. But I think we're in this for the medium haul.

[C]

I agree. I think the combination. Say what you will about nil and how you think that's affecting college football. For this specific example, if this makes quarterbacks stay in college a little longer, develop a little longer because they can get paid, stay at the same school a little longer because they can get paid and then develop more and come into the league a little bit more prepared and ready, and it makes this whole rookie quarterback drafting a little bit more consistent and predictable and these guys can step into these teams and actually be productive in year one and two, I think that's kind of just like a floor raiser across the board. It's better if you're a fan of Oregon and it's better if you're a fan of whatever team takes Dante more.

[A]

Next Year it'll be good and bad because as Brady put eloquently, because again, Brady when he's not announcing a game is like still the best person talking about football. And he was like, you used to learn a program and now you learn a playbook and now guys are going to transfer three or four times to play. You know what I mean? It's like kind of going to stunt development in some ways and teams are going to NFL teams are going to have to adjust. The funny thing about the jets specifically for Dante Moore is I think if it was any other sign on the door other than the Browns, we're like, this is a great situation. Garrett Wilson's a legit number one receiver. Mason Taylor is a highly thought of prospect to tight end with a solid rookie year. The offensive line, they have a first round pick at left tackle, they have a first round pick at right tackle, they have a first round pick at guard, they have like pretty John Simpson, like they have good offensive line. The problem is they're the Jets. They haven't had a good quarterback since Joe Namath. And then this we got an email from. His name is Sam Teets. And Sam Teets, he, he, he's teeth. He covers the Chiefs. So I'll give him this, I'll give him the shout out.

[B]

Nice.

[A]

Sam Teets, Sammy. Yes. You know, but Sam Teed sent me this. I couldn't believe this. Calvin Johnson's best 17 game span, he had more receiving yards than the jets had passing yards in 17 games this season. And in that span, Calvin Johnson had as many 200 yard receiving games as the jets had 200 yard passing games this season.

[C]

I know it's not just like, oh, the jets are the jets and you can't go there because it's like the ownership and there are like actual tactile reasons why you wouldn't want to go to the jets out. Because I think you made a great point. Like there are pieces I don't know, Garrett Wilson, the offensive line, Breeze hall, whatever. But I love that there is still just like, yeah, but it's the jets. And that like actually factors into decisions that this like hex this, this cloud that hangs over this team actually is, is influencing the way players make this. I think that's hilarious and it still is like a little bit of, you know, people say that analytics ruin sports and I love that there's still a little bit of like, yeah, but it's the jets, it's the Browns.

[B]

Yeah, it, there's, it's like a, there's a. Certain teams have a certain DNA that they can't, like, escape. And I think with the jets in particular, it's like the ownership, it permeates things. The other thing I think that's really applicable. Applicable here. Applicable colloquially. Colloquially sounded better that time. Is that it sounds like the Jets. I don't know this for sure, but it sounds like the jets are keeping Aaron Glenn as head coach.

[A]

Yeah, they definitely are.

[B]

And I mean, you have. That's gonna happen. That's gonna. That's gonna go for another year and then they're gonna fire him. And so, like, if you're, you know, a quarterback, any quarterback coming into the NFL, and you're like, I might. I'm probably going to go number two to the jets and after a year, the head coach is going to get fired, and then we're going to have some other random guy that I don't know come in. Maybe he'll like me, maybe he won't.

[C]

Also, Garrett Wilson probably gone.

[B]

Yeah. And Breece hall gone after this year. Yeah. And then it's like. But these are, these are. Act like more tangible things. Like, I guess it's not 100 certain that they'll fire Aaron Glenn after one more year, but like, that's kind of like the writing on the wall here is that not only not only are you going to the jets, but you're going to the Jets. They're probably gonna have a new coach after one year. Then you're gonna have a new, like a new system. Maybe you don't get along with the new coach, maybe you don't get along with like, whatever. So, like, there's legit. I, I think there's legitimate reasons to, like, not to go back to school. But that being said, I did, I did put Dante Moore here to number two to the jets because we don't know if he's coming out or not. I think he, he. There's a chance he might.

[A]

Here's the truth. None of us possess a fraction of the confidence required to be this good at quarterback. And so they probably like. The truth is, other people in their life may think about it, but the players don't give a fuck. It's like, you know, they're just like, you need so much confidence to be this good at quarterback that worrying about it is almost a red flag.

[C]

All right, third pick here, Arizona Cardinals. You gave them Spencer Fano, the tackle out of Utah. I have no thoughts.

[B]

You didn't like. You didn't like his tape, Craig, you.

[A]

Weren'T sure Watching Utah tackles all college.

[C]

Football season, Greg, not a lot of youth tape for me so far.

[B]

There's two Utah tackles in this class.

[A]

That are first round.

[B]

The two utes.

[A]

The two utes.

[B]

Toots. The toots.

[C]

I generally never have an issue with, with somebody taking a lineman. Like anytime you're like tackle, I'm like, great, great pick.

[B]

I think this is going to be another meat and potatoes draft. I think we talked about this last year where it's going to be like a lot of edge players, a lot of defensive tackles, a lot of offensive tackles, maybe throw out a few guards. It's just going to be one of those drafts where it's like less sexy and just more just like I want a guy who's really huge and he can block.

[C]

Well, the question I have for you here, dk, is, is if Kyler Murray is not on the Cardinals next year, is, is there a quarterback at 3 that Arizona could take if Dante Moore and Mendoza are gone? Or a no shot?

[B]

No.

[A]

Or a quarterback the jets could take if Dante Moore goes back to school?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Right. Now the other guy that's like in the conversation is Ty Simpson, but I don't think he's gonna declare based on recent play.

[A]

Sure.

[C]

Benched.

[A]

Let me.

[B]

There's other guys in the class, but I think generally speaking, most of them are considered like day two guys at this point, late round one. Nussmeier, Drew Ahler, I don't actually. I think some of these guys are gonna transfer.

[C]

And Drew Aller had a bad injury this year, right?

[B]

Yeah, he missed a lot year for Penn State.

[A]

And I believe, I mean, Gary Nutsmeyer's benched at one point this season.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I mean, that went from like fringe number one pick. Thoughts?

[B]

Yeah, I liked him a lot last year, man.

[C]

Nussmeier and Aller. There was a time when those two were expected to be, you know, top five picks in the draft.

[A]

The thing with Ty Simpson is just like before and after Halloween, it would almost be better if he was hiding an injury because honestly, a real demerit for loyalty because Ty Simpson went to Bama and waited his turn and waited his turn, got the job. And honestly, if Ty Simpson doesn't declare for the draft, I think he wouldn't start at Bama because they have this six foot six, gawky Trevor Lawrence clone. I mean, honestly, the most interesting part of the Bama Indiana game was when the backup quarterback came in and threw freaking lasers and I was like, there's no way Ty Simpson's playing for Bama. Next year unless he's hiding an injury. So the idea that Ty Simpson would enter almost because he couldn't win back the old Bama job is just like a such a red flag where I'm like, how could you possibly pick this guy if he couldn't outdo the five star behind him at Bama? So you know, maybe he's a back end of the first. But yeah, it's. It's a meat and potatoes draft. It's like there's one quarterback in Mendoza. If Dante Moore comes out, there's two. Frankly the drama is. If Dante Moore comes out, there's no drama. It's Mendoza one and Dante were two. And then Ty Simpson maybe is like a Tyler shuck back early second round pick or late first. And then other than that, it's freaking lineman, man.

[C]

Yeah, there's some receivers mixed in like. So let's just get to the next two picks. Here you have the Titans at 4 and the Giants at 5. You have them both taking linebackers. For the Titans you gave them Arvell Reese out of Ohio State and for the Giants you gave him David Bailey.

[A]

Well past like outside linebacker. Right? Like pass, pass rusher's edge.

[B]

Arvel Reese is of like a linebacker slash pass rusher, hybrid type of guy. Super explosive, super flexible, like ascending type player. Super exciting Heifitz. I actually had the Giants having him before the Giants won in week 18. So sorry about that. Dave Bailey is a good consolation pick though because he's just pure speed off the edge, you know, high energy player, tons of pressures, tons of sacks, tons of tackles for loss. He's always in the backfield. These. It's going to be very interesting kind of like what happens in the top of the draft this year. I think because some of these guys like Arval Reese, a little thin framed. There's. They could be. He could be picked apart like because he's not quite big enough and strong enough. You know, there's. There's a bunch of pass rushers this year that are like short arm guys that I think teams are going to be talking about.

[A]

If we.

[B]

We're going to be talking about arms so much this pre, this offseason. It's going to be. It's going to drive you crazy.

[A]

What a. Yeah, this is. This will be the draft where we have to follow through on the joke that we actually should just get these guys tailored. We want to find out their suit sizes and that like that'll give us the inside track. I mean, I mean, well, the number one, Ruben Bane, the Miami pass rusher who was considered like, maybe a top pick in the draft. And then there was a. It's funny to say a rumor about our length. You'd think that AI could figure that out. But there's a rumor that Reuben Bane's arms are under 31 inches long, which I always laugh saying that out loud, but that I think.

[B]

I think Dane Brugler, I don't know if reported, but that was like saying that that's what he's hearing. And so, like, it's second percentile in.

[A]

The NFL, like, literally at 98 events.

[B]

Like, you just don't really see pass rushers in the NFL. Right. It's like T. Rex out there.

[A]

Yeah, it's.

[B]

So there's like, there's going to be a lot of that. So it was actually when I was putting together this mock, I was like, I don't know. The top 10 could be anything, really. It just depends on what teams have, you know, like, these thresholds that they want for certain players in terms of, like, their arm length or their weight or their body mass or whatever. There's going to be a lot of that kind of conversation, which I look forward to. So it's gonna be great.

[C]

The question I have for you, dk, is. Is less the. The individual players, like, give the outside linebacker, R.V.L. reese to Tennessee. I'm more curious about why you decided to go with defense for Tennessee versus offense. Because, you know, you have Cam Ward and the receiving room, you know, is not great.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Is there a. Is there a receiver in this draft? You like a Carnell Tate going deeper, beyond him? Like, is there any guy you think could be considered as like a top five pick in this draft or not really from a talent?

[B]

No, I do. I think the two guys I've seen that people I think consider the top two receivers in the draft are Jordan Tyson from Arizona State and Carnell Tate from Ohio State. I personally really like Carnell Tate. He is fun to watch. Craig, I bet you'll like him a lot. He's one of those players that he. He reminds me a little bit of devonte Smith, just like a little bit thicker version of devonte Smith where he's like really long, really twitchy, smooth route runner, and he just skies over dudes and catches everything. So he. He's gonna be. To me, I think if I was gonna make my list right now, he would be my number one receiver. I just really liked him when I watched him, and I think he's a really, really good player. So it wouldn't surprise me at all if he went number four or even really number three. I guess the Cardinals, although they probably don't. They don't go for a highly.

[A]

Yeah, he could.

[B]

Ohio State receiver. Yeah. But, you know, I think Cardinal Tate would be a guy that would not surprise me. Go in the top five, I guess. Tyson, Jordan. Tyson is another one that might go that high, but he's got like injury history that I think some teams might balk at. Again, this is like. It was actually kind of hard to make the top 10 because I think there's like, reasons that you can move every guy down.

[A]

A lot of variants. I think there's a lot of variance and outside of frankly, the quarterbacks at the top and I think there's going to be variance. I agree that Spencer like Fano the tackle and then I even like the other Miami tackle. Let's see if I don't butcher it. But it's Maui Mauioga.

[B]

No, Francis mauioga from Miami. I really like him a lot, but he's. But he is the classic. Some teams are going to see him as a guard because he's a little. He's not quite as tall and lanky and long as like a lot of NFL tackles that you see. So, you know, this is the discussions.

[A]

We'Re going to have.

[B]

But I really liked him a lot. I think, like, high. Fitz, a lot of people are going to think Arvell Reese is the best player in the draft, but, you know, because of his size and everything, he might go down a little bit.

[A]

I'll tell you who's the best player.

[B]

Same. Same with what you're going to say here with. Caleb Downs might be one of the best players in the draft, but no one's going to take a safety.

[A]

Well, Caleb Downs is the best player in this draft. And if you want to say quarterback, fine.

[B]

You're getting out ahead of it.

[A]

Take the quarterbacks out of it. Caleb Downs is the best player in the draft. And I'm saying this now, and if I future me changes my mind, then I hope that. I hope this me punches that one in the face. Because Caleb Downs is like, you know, Craig, you always joke like, we could probably do a better job with the draft in January if we just stopped it right when the games ended and we just watched the games and we're like, no more information, please, outside of tell me if their knees are fucked up. When I watch Caleb Downs, it's like he. When he was at Alabama, it's like, well, he's as good as any Bama defensive back I can remember. And then he transfers to Ohio State and they win the national championship. And it's like, Caleb Downs is obviously the best defender at any position in America. And then it's like all off season it's going to be, well, you can't take a safety in the top 10. And then in the rookie year it's like, oh, wow, Caleb Downs is like already the top two safety in the NFL.

[B]

And I, I'm thinking of abandoning positional value altogether.

[A]

I think it's going to be a huge conversation this year because Jeremiah, there's a huge gap between like Jeremiah Lovett, running back and the next best running back. And teams are going to talk themselves into it. And to say the thing about positional value, I think is very misunderstood is people will be like. Because the, the base point of it is like, well, you want to. I mean quarterback obviously is important, but like, well, a left tackle or you know, it's a mix of supply and demand. But also, well, if the. Justin Jefferson is like the best receiver in the NFL and he's worth say $40 million a year and you find a rookie who can be like that at like $8 million a year, then you're getting $32 million of surplus value. The problem when people apply that blindly is you should be factoring in what is the percentage chance you think that will happen. So Caleb Downs, you're like, I think there's a 90% chance that Caleb Downs is actually going to be worth the top end of the market. That changes it when you're like, well, let's just take a higher paid position. But like, but the guy's probably going to suck. My confidence in Caleb Downs, you never know. I love Jeff Okuda at Ohio State. I am as confident in Caleb Downs, honestly, not since Kyle Hamilton. And that's the exact same conversation. Kyle Hamilton fell to the Ravens because he's a safety and he was ran a four or five. How fucking stupid does that seem now? How many people play faster than Kyle Hamilton?

[B]

Oh my God. Guys, news. John Harbaugh got fired.

[A]

Get the out.

[B]

Ian Rapaport, Ravens Longtime decorated head coach John Harbaugh parting ways. After days of discussion, they're parting ways. This is like Pete Carroll, we're gonna not have you be the head coach anymore, but we're parting ways.

[C]

Mutual separation.

[B]

Huge.

[A]

So harbor was the second Harvard out tenured coach in the NFL. So Steelers. Mike Tomlin with the Steelers was number one and Harbor's hired in 2008. I think this was brimming for a little bit. I'm curious what you think. DK 15 seasons. Wow. The first thing I think of when I come to this, we were talking about, like, needing a new voice eventually. I think the truth is sometimes when you get really close multiple times, you can only kind of. It kind of breaks teams sometimes. And I think the Ravens, I mean, 2019, they win 14 and 2, and they don't win a playoff game, and they had the best team that year.

[B]

And then, oh, my God, yeah.

[A]

2023, they had the best team, and they should have beat the Chiefs in the AFC Championship game. Zay Flowers gets chopped at the goal line and, like, fumbles the game away. They have the fewest designed running back carries in the history of the Baltimore Ravens, and they lose on the doorstep of the Super Bowl. They were, like, the only team that'd be number one a defense in overall DVA and not make the Super Bowl. And then they don't. And then next year they get further and further away. Conference title game, and then your divisional round, you lose, and then you don't make the playoffs. And I think, frankly about how they got brain drained. And I don't know why it took so long for the NFL to brain drain the Ravens, but Mike McDonald leaves on defense and suddenly Zach or isn't really the same coordinator and like the Joe Ortiz, your freaking doppelganger goes and runs the Chargers, and people need to go there.

[B]

And then suddenly I have, like, six doppelgangers. I swear.

[A]

You do.

[B]

Just all white, bald, white guys.

[A]

He's your. No, but he's your evil twin older brother.

[B]

Yeah. This is so interesting because I've seen so, like, the last few days, like, obviously I said on the other show, I think Har is going to get fired. And then I kind of walked it back because I was like, oh, is that not, like, something people believe? Because I was just kind of like, you know, truthfully, I was just basing it off. I was talking to my buddy Jay, who is a Ravens fan, and he was just like, yeah, I think it's like, time. That's kind of like what I was like going off of more or less is like, just the general gist that it feels like they need to move on. And so I was, like, looking at, you know, basically kind of checking out, like, Raven's Twitter and stuff. And there had been rumors the last couple days that they were actually going to fire Todd Monkin and Zach Orr and keep John Harb. And everyone was like, what Are we doing?

[A]

You know, dk, you joke. The worst case, you joke about all the analytics for fourth down decisions. The perfect model would just be recreating what all the fans of the opposing team.

[B]

Sometimes, man. Yeah, sometimes you just need to like, get the. Yeah, like the bigger view.

[A]

Yeah. Like other. Your opponents figure out what they want, do the opposite. Craig, you're a Steelers fan. You've rooted against John Harbaugh and the Ravens for 17 or 18 years. Gut check, do you, Are you, are you like more or less afraid of the Ravens firing John Harbaugh? Are you relieved by this or scared by this?

[C]

Probably scared because I, I mean, I'd be scared if I were you. Too high, Fitz. Now, looking at where Kevin Stefancy's gonna fucking land.

[A]

Oh, dude, I, I mean, I, I, I mean, the Giants are gonna hire John Harbaugh. I'm telling you that right now.

[C]

You think so?

[A]

Well, if you're John Harbaugh, do you want to go to the Giants and the Titans? The only thing he'd be scared of is the ownership entrenched in the front office. But I don't think that outweighs. I think.

[B]

What about Stefanski and the Giants are.

[A]

Going to want John Harbaugh. Let me tell you something. They're going to talk and pretend for some shit. They'll interview some people to do the Rooney rule.

[B]

And sad, they're interviewing Stefanski tomorrow, apparently.

[A]

Guess what? The Giants are going to hire John Harbaugh. I'm telling you right now.

[C]

And that's what. Mainly because the Giants love the idea of bringing in somebody with that, like that name tag, steady hand, maybe.

[A]

Let me rephrase. Maybe Harbaugh turns the Giants down.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I promise you the Giants preferred candidate will be someone that, I mean, after Pat Shermer and Brian Dable and they would love someone who was a head coach.

[C]

Yeah, I mean, look, the Ravens have been underperforming. You know, we talked about how it's like it grew stale in, in Cleveland, even if Stefanski was maybe a good coach. It's kind of the same thing in Baltimore where it's like they're just like, they were just doing it in the playoffs rather than the regular season failing. But the fact that they never even got to a Super bowl with Lamar Jackson, it's just one of those things where it's like, like eventually it has to run its course. Maybe it's similar to Pete Carroll in Seattle, like ending.

[B]

I think it's very similar in a lot of ways. It's just like Your voice at some point. It's like you're doing the same speech every year and you're doing the same program every year, the same strategy. It's just like, it just gets stale.

[C]

I mean, think about, like, if you look at what the Steelers have done in this decade and what the Ravens have done in this decade, the Ravens are basically only averaging one more win per year than the Pittsburgh Steelers in the 2000 and 20s. And the Steelers have been rolling out Mitch Trubisky and Mason Rudolph and Kenny Pickett, and the Ravens have had Lamar Jackson this entire time, and it's never really materialized to anything.

[A]

So. Yeah, I think you're right. And here's the thing with the Ravens. I think, you know, it's funny, my. My mom, whose like, late friend had the saying of like, beware people who keep the crazy on the inside. You know, it's like, I like people wear the crazy on the outside. Sure. The funny thing about the harbor brothers is Jim Harbaugh wears the crazy on the outside.

[B]

You know, he's just straight up crazy.

[A]

Yeah, I think John is. Is very.

[B]

Chickens are nervous birds, guys.

[C]

He walked that back.

[A]

He then raised chickens, but they taste pretty good. He kept a coup. Yeah, but I think John eating the.

[B]

Chickens, though, or is he just raising them?

[C]

I think he's eating the eggs, dude.

[A]

He told the eggs. This is. We should at some point.

[B]

The fact that we're having this conversation is just more than enough to point out that he's a crazy person. Okay, he's great.

[A]

But my point with John Harbaugh is like, I think John has just as much of that in him, but it's a little more composed. But the difference I think is that the Ravens have had way more sloppiness in certain areas than you would want from someone who's been there so long. And it's like you could start to see the cracks in the Fishers. I think frankly, John Harbaugh getting there were just coaching decisions, certain timeouts, certain end of game situations that I think were just being made up by Lamar. Having said that, I think the Giants should hire him. I think I would take John Harp, like if you just. Everyone, if every coach can't get thrown a hat in the ring, I'm like, give me John Harbaugh.

[B]

Yeah, but now you have to start talking about who's the OC Going to be.

[A]

I don't fucking care. Let him figure it out.

[B]

I'm like, I mean, it does matter a lot. Okay, but like, you got a young quarterback I understand that the most important person in the building more than John.

[A]

Harbaugh on who shows up if Clint Kubiak shows up to the meeting and he's like, oh, well, he's like the most prepared candidate we've ever seen. This is like what Sean McVeigh sounds it like them like, yeah, you should probably hire him. But the, I don't know. The truth is that when people are doing offensive stuff, offensive coordinators, it's like, that's not your job anymore. You have such a larger operation you're running and like, John Harbor's done that. But I, I, I, I got, I actually trust Steve Boschotti, the owner, to make the, the decision. I, I kind of think he's the only owner that I'm sure is like, seems like a value add. I, I've always, I never really care much about the bios for anyone on their team websites, but I've always been interested that Steve Bishadi's the owner of the Ravens. On the own Ravens site, it starts with Steve Bischat. He wants consistency. His goal is to have the Ravens in the playoff hunt every season, avoiding dips that plague some franchises. And a lot of that's a lot of other people's bios are kind of. But like, that's been crazy true. The Ravens went to Baltimore 96 and they've basically been a Super bowl contender like two out of every three years.

[C]

Do you feel like we just talked about. Right. It's hard to do it twice if you're the Game of Thrones guys. It's hard to make another 13 body problem.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

You know, do you feel like Harbaugh is like the same way when Jim Harbaugh came to LA and everyone's like, this is going to work, like he's there's going to win 10 games every year because that's what the Harbaughs do. Do you feel that way about John Harbaugh at 63 coming to the Giants after the Ravens?

[B]

Do you need a sabbatical in college for a few years?

[A]

It's crazy that he's not sabbatical, but exactly halfway in age between Mike Tomlin and Pete Carroll.

[C]

Is there any chance that Harbaugh takes a year.

[A]

If he doesn't like the Giants job? Yeah, it's funny.

[B]

Waits for a better opportunity.

[C]

Well, you know, you know, what's interesting is like, we, we talk about Andy Reid, you know, getting a little long in the tooth and stuff like that. I mean, I feel like Harbaugh used to work on The Eagles, Dandy Reid, they're very close. I you wonder if that if they take a year off Andy recalls it and then Harbaugh steps into the chief Chiefs.

[A]

Yeah but that would imply that Andy Reid's gonna see Mahomes Terrace ACL and hang it up. I think I, I do think Matt Nagy is going to be the guy waiting the wings for the Chiefs job. That's a good call. I think in 3 years, 5 years DK makes a face but I'm like.

[B]

I'm just like oh God. That nothing could be less like tantalizing if but any.

[A]

Reed's not going to get fired from the Mahomes era.

[C]

He's gonna, he would leave, he would retire.

[A]

I think my point is Matt Nagy will probably never take another job and wait and hopefully get that chief's job. And I think they would transition it internally maybe.

[B]

I this is a bigger question here which I think is really interesting is who is, who is going to be the Ravens coach because we have a two time MVP in Lamar Jackson. This is still a very talented team. Where are they going to go with this? Do you think they would hire from within? Like Todd Monkin would be the coach because he's getting head coaching interest?

[A]

No way. I think the offense looked horrible. I love Todd Monk and he's like a football.

[B]

He's getting head coaching interest is all I'm saying.

[C]

Like the Browns already gave Joe Flacco to the Bengals. Why don't they just give Kevin Stefanski to the Ravens?

[A]

DK the Monkin thing gets to the other reason I think this happened. I think it's one third. It's been a long time. One third. Maybe Harbaugh had, you know, there's stuff going on the scenes we didn't know about, but it's one third. I think this is kind of a little related to when the Titans fired Mike Vrabel and it was Amy Adams Strunk or Amy. Yeah, Amy. Adam Strunk, the owner of the Titans was fucking pissed that Matt LaFleur was crushing it in Green Bay. And Matt Lafleur like was absolutely had like the best winning percentage since John Madden Bell of The ball won 13 games every season. She's like we let this guy go and our quarterback suck. And she fired Mike Vrabel and hired him.

[B]

She fired Frable.

[A]

Yeah, but. And like, well I want like an offensive guy like Brian Kellen. I think part of this is that Mike McDonald just got the 1 seed in the Seahawks. I'm not saying it's the entire reason. But the Ravens defensive coordinator which interesting. Obviously the Ravens defense was the quiet engine. The offense with Lamar has peaked and valid MVPs but also looked untenable for portions almost in a.

[B]

Like letting McDonald out of the building is. That's got a sting.

[A]

Yeah. It's like you want if basically they what are you going to do? You're going to.

[B]

No, I know.

[C]

Promote McDonald's.

[B]

It's like an impossible decision.

[A]

No one ever does it. But in retrospect, you wonder if you.

[C]

Should have is a coordinator rises up, becomes a star and they have to leave.

[A]

Yes. But it bothers you in retrospect. And I think that that's the fear of having.

[B]

But then you make decisions on that later. It does happen. Yeah.

[C]

So you right now, you'd rather have John Harbaugh than Kevin Stefanski 20 years younger.

[A]

That's crazy to say.

[B]

Wait, how old is Harbaugh? 63. Wow. I would have guessed like 50.

[C]

I think I'd rather have Stefanski maybe. That's an insane thing to say.

[A]

It's so funny because it's like. It gets to the nature of like. The truth is. And we tell this all the time is like it's. It's hard to know why things succeed. Even looking at like, well, there's so.

[B]

Many moving parts and I.

[A]

The truth. And this is maybe a cop out. You. I want to hear their plans. Like, yeah, John Harbaugh. I'm like, all right. Was a connected man. I want to hear his vision for Jackson Dart. They need to hear it. And I want to hear Kevin Stevenski's vision for Jackson Dart. I. You know what? Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe Joe Shane doesn't want to bring John Harbaugh because I got to tell you something I don't like now I'm thinking about it. The mayor of family might be like John Harbaugh. Let me tell you something. It wouldn't be good for Joe Shane, I don't think if John harbor came because.

[C]

John, why are you here?

[B]

What's AI got to say about this?

[A]

Yeah, yeah. That's. That's kind of like, go get your shine box.

[C]

You know what I mean? It's gonna be like Joe Shane sits John Harbaugh down. He's like, how are you planning to leverage AI to make the giant study? How are your prompts?

[A]

So, John, have you been. Wait, you know, have you seen Boris Johnson? The. The.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

British politician say that's the breaks. He's like, I. He calls it like I AI like he Spells it. He's reading it. He reads it. He's like, I. Yeah, I. But Joe Shane's like, how is I? John Harbaugh?

[C]

Oh, that's good. It feels weird to go back to a mock draft now, but I know. Well.

[B]

Well, I had. I had a point I wanted to say about the mock draft. If we're ready to move on yet, or do you want to. Do you want to linger on Harbaugh?

[A]

I wanted to ask you guys that Joe Shane, running the Giants search. Do you remember that scene in Hard Knocks where they were all different kids, were suggesting different quarterbacks? Yeah. Do you think we're gonna get another one? It's gonna be like, one kid's like, I want John Harbaugh, and the other's like, I want Kevin Stefanski, and the.

[C]

Other one's like, Mr. Beast. Do Mr.

[B]

Beast.

[A]

Last one. So who should the Ravens hire? Sorry. Before we move on.

[B]

It's funny because this is one of the. What I've seen so far is, like, one of the least inspiring, like, coaching carousels in recent memory. Maybe that's just relative to, like, what we've had. Like, last year was great, obviously, in the year before, but I honestly don't know. I honestly don't know. Like, who are the. Who are the big. Just list off some of the big candidates right now.

[A]

Well, I mean, Kevin Stefanski, which it's worth. I mean, first of all, Bill Barnwell had a great post. That said, John Harbaugh is obviously the best coach on the market, and the Ravens are obviously the best job on the market, which is absolutely true and kind of funny. It's worth noting if we're talking about Stefanski to the Ravens. The Ravens were the Browns. The Browns moved to Baltimore 96 and became the Ravens, and then the Browns were reincarnated in 99. So I'm not saying that they're that connected, like an actual organization, but the Ravens not picking Stefanski would be kind of interesting if.

[C]

I mean. Yeah.

[A]

Like, they've coached against him for six years. Like, if anyone you think would be in a position to understand, to be able to separate what. How. What did Stefanski do? What was he responsible for? And, like, did he do a great job with what he was given? Or, like, is he overrated or whatever? The Ravens pass against the fans, I think would be interesting.

[C]

Yeah. I mean, dk, to answer your question, based on, there's been a lot of reports over the last day or two from, like, guys like Jeremy Fowler or Graziano about, like, who are the candidates out there right now. It's not. It's not that great. There's the guys who have been coaches before. There's like the Robert Sala, Matt Nagy, Cliff Kingsbury types.

[B]

Kingsbury.

[C]

And then it's like a lot of like the hot young coordinators. It's like the Jags defensive coordinator Anthony Campanile. It's like the packers defensive coordinator Jeff Halfley. There's day ball in the mix. You have the rams, the Rams, D.C. chris Schuler, the Chargers, D.C. jesse Minter.

[B]

Minter is an interesting one because he came up in the Ravens organization house.

[A]

He's a heartbeat. It's like a Jim John disciple.

[B]

That would be very interesting.

[A]

Is there a world. Would you. If you're the Ravens, would you send a. Would you send a first round pick to Miami for Mike McDaniel? Oh, be like, what if Mike McDaniel could design an offense for Lamar Jackson?

[B]

I probably wouldn't, but it would be awesome.

[A]

We would have if two years ago.

[B]

We'D be like, I'd be like hoping he'd get fired.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Rather than sending a first round pick.

[A]

All these owners have the same conversations about the coaching candidates. And I'm like, I think if we're going to see a coach trade, it doesn't happen a lot. We might see it.

[C]

Dude, if Stefanski goes to Baltimore because Stefanski had two more years on his deal, so the Browns are gonna. Would have essentially paid out Kevin Stefanski for him to go to Baltimore and kick the out of them.

[A]

Dude, if the Ravens hire us to.

[B]

Fans, what's Tomlin got to say about this? They must be smarter than me.

[A]

Andrew Barry must be less smarter than me.

[B]

Can't eat soup with a fork.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[C]

Can't go to sleep standing up. I don't know, I'm just imagining he would say, wow, okay.

[B]

All right.

[C]

So at 7, you have the commanders taking edge.

[B]

Rusher, Keldrick, full well, to get back to what we were talking about because we. We got interrupted high. Fitz was talking about positional value and safety and all that stuff.

[A]

Randomly talking about Kyle Hamilton.

[B]

Yeah. Kyle Hamilton is a good example. I, I just think, I'm thinking because for a long time I sort of subscribed to the school of thought. Like, you should actually pay attention to, like, how much these guys are gonna be making, how, how much value they bring relative to free agents and all that stuff. But now I think I, I find myself just going the opposite with it because in recent memory and, and I've been as Guilty as anybody of like, kind of like grading down for when teams take like lower positional value players in the draft. You think about like what the Lions did a couple years ago, and forgive me if I get the order wrong, but it was like Jack Campbell, Brian Branch and Sam laporta and it was like lime off ball, linebacker, safety, tight end, and guess what? First of those three and Jameer Gibbs, right? So it was, it was running back, tight end or sorry, running back, linebacker, and then safety and tight end. I think those are their first four picks. And I was like, these are all the least valuable positions, blah, blah, blah. Guess what? They're all good and like core foundational pieces of this team. And I'm like, and now I think about it and like what the Seahawks did in this last draft, Gray Zable, guard, their second pick was Nick Emma, worry, safety, low value, quote unquote, low value position groups. But these are two core guys. These two guys in particular helped turn around the Seahawks franchise. You know what I mean? It's like, why do we, I understand why we do this, but what Heifers was saying where it was like, you have to make that a variable, it's a factor. But also this guy's going to be really good. We're really confident in that. I think is is is not factored in enough. And I think people, the response that would be like, no one knows who's going to be good.

[A]

It's not just about money. Like, it's not just about the money. And the other part of it, like, I think the running, like positions are different. Running back, like I think we've talked about this, but I think where we've landed with the running back debate thing is now we're at the point where the running backs aren't paid that much money and the answer seems to be obvious. It's the cherry on top of the Sunday. And if you put the cherry at the bottom, that's stupid. And what the Raiders did with Genty was probably dumb because taking Genty before you have an offensive line, you end up lasting yards per carry. And when it works, you the Lions who then use four first round picks on linemen. All right, well, you take Jameer Gibbs is probably going to be sick. And if you had put Genty on the Lions, he probably would have been sick. And Gibbs on the Raiders, maybe it wouldn't have been great. And so we've Learned that sake one of the giants doesn't help him win because Christian McCaffrey on the Niners doesn't Help him win. You put them in the sorry McCaffrey and the Panthers doesn't win. You put them on the Niners. You put Saquon on the Eagles. It works. Clearly, running back depends on offensive lineman. The difference is a guard is also not paid much money. But a great guard makes other positions better. He makes the center better. It makes the left tackle better. He makes. It's a force multiplier.

[B]

He's holding the pocket together.

[A]

Exactly. The interior. And it matters more. Especially you want to get back to it.

[B]

And he's opening up inside runs. Yeah.

[A]

Safety to me with Caleb Downs is the same thing. A good safety in the modern NFL. I mean, there were teams playing three safeties all year. It's like a good safety is making everyone better. Like Kyle Hamilton. The Ravens defense went from like the worst in the league through six weeks and they traded for Loe Gilman, a safety to move Kyle Hamilton to a different spot on the defense. And then they just were transformative. The worst defense to like, probably a little above average in like immediately.

[C]

I mean, the Steelers moving Jalen Ramsey to safety. The Steelers turned into like a completely different defense the second half of the year.

[A]

It is a like Caleb Downs. To me, it's like. It is an old. You know, it's kind of like. Frankly, I guess the simplest way to put it is conventional wisdom that a safety is not worth the pick. Smart teams like the Patriots and Eagles are consistently ahead of conventional wisdom. The Eagles paid Saquon Barkley when it was conventional wisdom not to. The smart teams are ahead of it. The idea that a safety like as special and again, anyone could fail. I think I'm as confident as Caleb Downs will be successful in the NFL as any safety prospect I can remember. Maybe my confidence in him is a sign he's going to suck because that's.

[B]

Because we don't know. We never know anything is the problem.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. But I. The idea that if he's as good as he could be, that that's not valuable. I think that's crazy. He might fail. But if he succeeds, it's unquestionably worth. The top 10 picked to be a top eight pick. I think outside of the top two tackles, a quarterback back. I'd rather have him maybe than some of these pass rushers.

[C]

Did we discuss or. Or maybe we did and I. I missed it that. That the commanders did fire Cliff Kingsbury today. Did. Have we discussed that?

[A]

No, we didn't even get into that. So much stuff has happened.

[B]

The Lions also fired their OC John Morton, whose name I can barely remember ever.

[C]

The Commanders fired their offensive coordinator and their defensive coordinator and their offensive line coach.

[A]

So this is. Let's.

[B]

Yeah, so only, only the head coach.

[C]

So Washcliffe Kingsbury theoretically is. Could get fired as a head coach, hired as an offensive coordinator, fired as an offensive coordinator and then hired as a head coach.

[A]

And that would be the second time that's happened to him because he got fired a little, but he got fired at Texas Tech, hired as a USC offensive coordinator and then given an NFL head coaching job in like six weeks.

[C]

Getting fired as an offensive coordinator in the NFL and then hired like a month later as a head coach in the NFL.

[A]

I believe, I believe what happened there, and I could be wrong, is that Kingsbury clashed with Adam Peters, the GM of the Niners. And the further I get back from that.

[C]

Commanders.

[A]

Oh, sorry. Yeah, the Commanders. I keep. Sorry. Adam Peters came from the.

[B]

He used to be from the 49ers.

[A]

I keep thinking about Bill. The, the. The. Remember when Ben Johnson, the Lions coordinator who's now the coach of the Bears, turned down the Washington job and there was like very.

[B]

The.

[A]

Washington was very nasty about it publicly because they turned the plane around, which they could bitch about, but he was saving them time and they very publicly made fun of him. And Ben Johnson leaked basically that they were basketball guys and that's why he turned down the Washington job. He thought that Josh Harris is a basketball guy and they had a lot of Magic Johnson, they had a lot of Bob Myers. The Warriors GM is retired. A lot of basketball thoughts. He's like, I don't. The. I think Dan Quinn is probably on fire next year if Washington doesn't make the playoffs. And I think this is like, I think Kingsbury wasn't getting along with Adam Peters, but I think the Washington resurgence might. I'm a little worried about Jaden Daniels and I'm a little worried about the Washington resurgence. But Cliff also seems to wear out his welcome consistently. I think he's really tall and really, really like has really sexy voice and a great jawline and he's great talking to 60 year old billionaires and 18 year old high school recruits.

[C]

Probably right.

[A]

Well, you guys just don't know what to do with that one.

[B]

I don't know what to do with that one. But yeah, I think Craig, your point that he could fail up is very funny.

[C]

I just love the idea of getting fired as a coordinator and hired as a head coach in a month.

[A]

Man.

[B]

The Commanders, the, the Commanders don't think that's gonna happen. I don't think he's probably gonna go back to college or something. It sounds like they had like they. They worded it at least. What I saw is they worded it kind of like this Harbaugh thing where they. They met and they decided mutually to part ways or whatever. Because of Clint Kingsbury has like other options that he wants to do.

[C]

The Jeremy Fowler reported that the. The Browns were thinking about firing Stefanski and they said that the Browns wanted Mike McDaniel. Mike McDaniel seems like kind of a hot commodity.

[B]

He's more popular outside of Miami than inside Miami.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Interesting.

[C]

I don't know.

[A]

I think Carlos was happy. Add this to the list of episodes where Carlos is going to be mad at what we said. I think Carlos is thrilled that Chris grew. The GM got fired and I think that was the right decision. I kept waiting for McDaniel to fire the defense. Never. The team didn't quit on him.

[C]

Well, Carlos just texted us saying he wants Harbaugh in Miami.

[A]

Oh, well, that was so funny. I think the night the Ravens did the right thing. But the Ravens could have traded John Harbaugh. I think maybe you don't want to get into a protracted situation and maybe the rules, the timing doesn't work out where you don't want to wait to do that. But I feel like teams would have traded picks to the Ravens for him. I know that extorting. He's been there like almost 20 years.

[C]

Well, it's funny. It's like how valuable is a coach like Harbaugh like as a trade piece when he's not really a play designer, play color. He's like a culture guy.

[A]

It's a CEO. Yeah.

[B]

He's just literally a special teams coach. That was his background, which.

[A]

Well, the Ravens special teams, but ironic. So funny. This all happened because a priest blessed the end zone of the Steelers stadium and then the kick.

[B]

That's why it happened.

[A]

40 yard, 44 yard field goal in the end zone.

[C]

That priest blessed Tyler Loop got Harbaugh fired.

[A]

That guy doing. I think Harbaugh also kind of knew because he was the one who walked Loop out. And I think Harbaugh had an inkling this would happen. I think he was trying to make Loop be like, I'm gonna lose my. Not saying it, but I think he knew I'm gonna lose my job and I don't want this kid to fucking feel bad about it.

[C]

Also, it appears as though there are videos circulating. I'm trying to get every angle I'M I'm. I'm reaching out to my sources that Boswell's extra point was perhaps tipped.

[A]

So.

[B]

Craig's on the Steelers Reddit checking it out. It's a Pruder film. Back into the left. Back into the left.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, I. They hit the wire.

[A]

Other coordinates, right. The Cowboys fired Matt Abraflus, the defensive coordinator, who again was the Bears head coach.

[C]

And then loose is loose once again.

[A]

Flu is loose. I mean, that never made sense at any point that, that make up with the Cowboys and flu, and I don't think he will. I don't think the Cowboys are a winnable situation. I don't think. I don't. I don't know.

[B]

What does he have to say about Caleb Williams, though?

[A]

Yeah, who knows?

[B]

You know?

[C]

Well, he didn't want to kind of blow through the rest of this mock draft and have DK kind of like pull the bus wire when he wants to talk about a specific pick.

[A]

I want to pull the bus wire a couple places.

[B]

Yeah, we can do that.

[C]

All right, so let's. So I, I. Washington commanders, you give him an edge rusher from Auburn, Keldrick Falk. Any, any thing there. You want me to move on?

[B]

Big, strong, explosive. Well, pretty fast guy for his size. Like, just a big defensive end.

[C]

I gotta be honest, when big, powerful, you have a guy, an edge rusher going seventh overall in the NFL draft, and you tell me, big, powerful, explosive, I'm like, yeah.

[B]

People are comparing him to Mikel Williams from the 49ers last year for, for the 49ers, like, that kind of player.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

It doesn't get you going is what you're saying.

[C]

I think this is the first edge rusher, like, you know, one of the top three edge rushers in the NFL draft. I'm like, yeah, of course he's going to be explosive. He better be.

[B]

He's. Yeah, he's like, a bit. I think he's still up and coming. Young player, like, okay, he's not a tight end.

[A]

Craig. We don't know if he's athletic.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

It's not like DK's dog or Secretariat 8 pick.

[C]

This kind of surprised me. DK, you gave the Saints a wide receiver to pair with Chris Olav. You gave him Carnell Tate, your guy.

[B]

Ohio State, I think after. I think it's like, the way I look at it is like they've got something good going here. And potentially with Tyler Shock as like, the future of their franchise. Kellen Moore seems like he did a pretty good job given What. Given what he was, what he like, took over in New Orleans. So I'm just kind of like, let's build the offense up. Let's get the offense going. You could see some explosive stuff happening with their. And, you know, two former Ohio State receivers. I don't know. I just kind of like that. That pairing. It was like basically to give Tyler Shuck some more help.

[C]

Okay. And then next pick here we have. This just will never seem normal. The Kansas City Chiefs have the ninth.

[B]

Ninth pick.

[A]

What are we gonna. How long into the draft season will we stop being flabbergasted to see the Chiefs having the 9th pick in the draft?

[C]

Incredibly bizarre. DK, can you pronounce the name of the person you are giving to the Chiefs?

[B]

Mansoor delane. Okay, I'm not 100 sure that's right. That was my guess. But yeah, they. I think it's just like, they need to get better on defense. They. They have a lot of holes actually in their offense. I, I was tempted to go like, offensive stuff, skill, player, but they've done that so much and like completely failed at it the last few years. I was just like, let's go defense here.

[A]

I, I think when we get closer to the draft, I would. I strongly think this will be a trench guy. I think they're either going to replace right tackle Juan Taylor, who's the highest paid player on the team that isn't.

[B]

I thought about offensive line a lot there. Yeah.

[A]

Maybe they took a.

[B]

They took a tackle last year too.

[A]

No. Yeah. They have Josh Sims at left side, right side. Maybe they could find someone who can line up correctly. Like, we'll see. But I also think they would go defensive tackle here. Peter woods at a Clemson. I'm probably. He didn't have a great. He like did his 2024 was better than 2025, which is always weird. But also, I kind of don't give a.

[B]

Well, he's like, he was the type of player who came. I think a lot of people had him as like the top player in the draft coming into this season and he's fallen a little bit, but he's still. You know, the upside is he's got like freaky twitch as from a big guy.

[A]

Yeah. And then it's like, so he could.

[B]

Go higher than I have.

[A]

I. I think the Giants could take him at 5 and I'd be fine. I also. This is a conversation we're having the guys over the next few months. It's just like, I just think defensive tackles, honestly, I think they're more valuable than pass rushers. I think edge rushers are overrated. I think defensive tackles are underrated. I, I, I, I think, I mean, super anecdotal, but if you just look at the last like 10 Super bowl winners, most of the time the best defensive tackle in the league is on the winning defense. Super bowl team.

[B]

Well, the Seahawks, like this is again, you know, the Seahawks defense, one of the best defenses we've seen in a really long time. Like Byron Murphy quietly has been playing so. Looks so good. He's amazing. A freaking, just brick wall. Like they teams can't, can't move him off the ball even when they double him. He's so good and he's like, I think there's so many like fun players on the CX defense. He does, he, he kind of flies under the radar, but he's been so good.

[A]

And that's the thing. It's like, it just. We don't have to go on a rant about defensive tackles, but I think the Chiefs next season, right now, if you look at the roster, literally all of their defensive tackles in Kansas City except one Guy will be 30 or older in next season. And I think the one guy that it's like a practice squad, undrafted free agent is the only defensive tackle they'll have in their 20s. So I kind of think that's the floor for Peter Woods.

[B]

Yeah, I like that, I like that.

[A]

Because Chris Jones is going to be like 31, 32. I mean, you know, but crazy that.

[C]

They get to pick that high 10th pick. Cincinnati Bengals. You're giving them Jerem McCoy, cornerback out of Tennessee.

[B]

This is kind of like the old saying that they gave up more yards than any other team in the NFL. Maybe we should have some corners. Okay, that was kind of like my thinking. McCoy missed the season with a ACL injury that he had off during the off season. But I mean, yeah, if you just look at the Bengals defense, they gave up every, every metric that matters. Really. They were like, like top or bottom three or four.

[A]

I mean, is there a team that's considered a good team that needs more things than the Bengals? Bengals. The Bengals haven't made the playoffs in three years and they kept saying they.

[B]

Need, they need more trench guys too. They could use more offensive linemen. They could use more basically every position in the defense. Yeah, I don't know. I, this one was tough, but I think like, I was just looking at the passing stats, the defensive passing stats, I was like, jesus.

[C]

Speaking of Carlos's Miami Dolphins, the 11th pick you gave them the Oregon tight end who was the biggest biceps I've ever seen in my life.

[A]

This is so cheap.

[B]

His biceps are crazy.

[A]

I actually think they're triceps. I think his biceps are.

[B]

His biceps on his, his biceps.

[A]

He looks like Craig. He looks like someone who could get in the salty spittoon.

[C]

Yeah, he looks like he has anchor arms, like, from, yeah, like, you got that you have to blow up from spongebob. He is genuinely one of the more jacked people I've seen. Just him sitting. God, there's a, there's a shot of him sitting at a press conference.

[A]

His arms are like, I, I, we can't make a big enough deal about this. His arms are the biggest I've ever seen on a tight end.

[C]

And he's not super tall, right?

[B]

Dk he's only, he's like six three.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, he is.

[B]

He looks kind of like a move tight end. I, I My initial sort of reaction to him, like, first, first watch was he kind of reminds me of, like, Leaporto, where he's a little smaller. I think he's like 6, 3, 2, 45 or something like that. But he's pretty good at blocking, and he works really hard at it. And I think he's the type of tight end where despite the fact he's not like 6 5, 6, 6, he could still be pretty instrumental in the run game in terms of, like, what Mike McDonald wants to do. Sorry, Mike McDaniel wants to do in the run game. Like, that's a big part of their, their philosophy and identity on offense. But he's also, you know, explosive after the catch. He's really good at the catch point. I just remember two years ago when Johnny Smith was like, a huge part of their offense. I'm like, I could picture him having that type of role, but he's probably more effective as a blocker. So that was kind of where I was going with that. I just think they need more weapons on offense, and he is the type of guy who can be a factor in the run game, too. So that was kind of my thinking on that. I don't know if he'll go this high. It's always tough to know with tight ends. You know, I think the last few tight ends that have taken have been taken really high, have panned out really well for their teams. If you look at, like, Brock Bowers, Courtney's Court, Colston Loveland this year ended up on a really, like, high note. Like, he's looking like he's going to be a great pick for the Bears. Tyler Warren has been really good. So there's like, like now a little bit more precedent of taking these, you know, quote unquote, like, pass catching tight ends early and them having like, big impact early on.

[A]

There's also way more precedent. We're gonna have to talk about this in depth. Do an investigation. Kenyan Sadiq is at the cutting edge of. These guys are showing more skin during games than ever.

[B]

He has the tiniest little shoulder pads.

[A]

Tucks his shoulder like David Bailey. Texas Tech does this too. Like, David Bailey is dominating the Oregon game.

[B]

It's like Michael Bennett. Do you guys remember Michael Bennett's shoulder pads?

[A]

It's like the Vince Papali shoulder pads. Like the little bitty ones.

[B]

Yeah, they tuck the.

[A]

But also they tuck the jerseys. The shoulders into the pads. They keep the jerseys tucked into the pads like Michael Parsons.

[B]

It makes. It really makes your. Your arms pop, though.

[A]

It does. But then also.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, same.

[A]

Maybe I'm just old, but I feel like more players than ever are wearing their pants above the knee, like, exposed.

[B]

Oh, it's like up to your quad.

[A]

If you skin your knee on turf, it fucking hurts. But like, David Bailey is just dominating this Oregon game. And he looks like that's how guys look in practice or like warm ups. Like the jersey. Like you see the pads at the bottom?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, it's cleavage and then. But I also seeing his knees and I'm like, this guy.

[B]

It's like under. They're showing under boob out there.

[A]

Yeah, it's like under boob.

[B]

Fucking under boob. It's. It's provocative.

[C]

It gets people going in general when like I see like sometimes I realize like how. How little pads NFL players actually wear. Like, there's like some receivers who don't wear leg pads. Like no thigh pads at all. They're just none of them wearing, like.

[B]

Compression about how much it hurts. Yeah.

[A]

None of them wear pads on their lower half when you high school football knee pads.

[C]

No, none of them.

[A]

No. Because speed is the name of the game. It makes you slower and they make you feel tight. None of them were knee pads. None of them were hip pads. None of them were any of that.

[B]

Yeah, what is this, the 80s?

[C]

Like, the fact that, like, waist down, no pads, you can like see their midriff. You can like just see their stomach. I'm like, man, they got their pads tucked into their shoulders. There's like, not a lot going on in terms of protection.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Soon it's just going to Be like they're wearing these like giant alien concussion protective helmets and then no pads below.

[B]

It's like the, the. The old scuba diver helmet things with the cord that's just all they're wearing.

[C]

Okay, let's round this out. So you have The Cowboys at 12.

[B]

Taking Cale Downs high. Fitz's boy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He'll probably go higher than this. I. I don't know. I was like. It's one of those things where the, the positional value is there. It's like people don't. It's hard to predict where he'll go. But. Yeah.

[C]

And then you have one more. I work 13th pick. You have the Rams who have the Falcons pick taking Avion Terrell, the corner out of Clemson.

[B]

Yeah. No more flat Stanley. Well, no more relying on him wholly. I think it was like one of the main issues for the Rams this year has been like some cornerback issues. So that was kind of where I was thinking about that. This is the. The younger brother of A.J. terrell.

[A]

That was. Did you do that on purpose? That was really up to give the Falcons pick to the Rams. The.

[B]

No, I did not do that on purpose. I didn't do that on purpose, but I like it.

[A]

Agent Terrell, the best cornerback on the Falcons and you gave his brother to the Rams with the Falcons.

[B]

Yeah, I did not actually think that, but that's funny.

[A]

Yeah, it's pretty cheeky.

[B]

He's. He's a fun player to watch, man. He's like always right the ball. Super tenacious. A little bit of like Devon Witherspoon personality to him. He's fun to watch.

[C]

Okay, that does it. That's DK's first.

[B]

Check out the rest of the mock draft on the ringer.com.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Website.

[C]

What's the URL.

[A]

Do we. Any other.

[B]

It's quite long.

[A]

I haven't. I have a.

[C]

Never mind.

[B]

Yeah, we'll put it in the. We'll put it in the show notes.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Link description and the discord is in there. Instagram, TikTok. Follow us but most importantly Netflix type in ringer. He said the set reminder. I have an email I want to read you guys. But first, anything else on harbor being fired or any of the other. Did anyone other. Oh, Bengals. Taylor Britt sentenced to five days in jail. Oh, five days. All right. They don't need a cornerback for that. Any other people get fired while we.

[B]

Were recording John Morton, but that's about it. I think that's like. Yeah, still coming in. Still. Still stuff happening.

[A]

Any last thoughts on John Harbaugh.

[C]

No, Carlos is sending us Dolphins propaganda.

[B]

Yeah, Carlos is already, like, following the breadcrumbs. Yeah.

[C]

Jordan Rodriguez reporting that the Dolphins are requesting an interview with the Chargers assistant GM Chad Alexander, who. Who DK's doppelganger brought into LA. And they spent a lot of time in Baltimore under Harbaugh. And so now, I guess the Dolphins want to bring in this gm, formerly of Baltimore, which could then reconnect with. With John Harbaugh.

[B]

Ooh, interesting.

[C]

And then Scott Hansen weighed in and said, whoa, you don't part ways with the coach to make yourself feel better. You part ways with the coach to make the franchise better.

[B]

Can you do it in his voice, please?

[A]

Whoa.

[C]

You don't part ways with the coach to make yourself feel better, folks. You part ways with the coach to make the franchise better. We'll see which version this is over the next year or two. Coming up next in the off season, this is the firing hour, when wins.

[B]

Become losses and losses become wins.

[A]

Jackie hates the witching hour. 18 weeks in a row. Jackie's like, I don't get it. I don't get it.

[B]

Oh, boy.

[C]

Where hirings become firings and firings become hiring.

[B]

Nice.

[A]

All right, couple emails here. We're. Get out of here emails, people. We did the rewatchables. We did basically, like, our awards for the season, which I was really fun episode, and I highly recommend to that if you didn't give it a chance. But I would listen to the awards episode from last week, and a couple people emailed in with some things we forgot or didn't realize, starting with Sean. Very important email from Sean. The subject line. There's no text. The subject line is just Cub Buck is the same name when said forward and backwards.

[B]

Is it really Cub Buck.

[A]

Backwards is Cub buck.

[B]

Oh, my God. Maybe that's why he's named that Kabuk. Oh, that's really funny.

[C]

What's the word for that? Like. Like.

[A]

Like an anagram or a palindrome?

[C]

Palindrome, like race car?

[A]

Yeah. Go buck.

[C]

Wow.

[A]

Steve Holt. Kobach.

[B]

Oh, it's called. Yeah. What is it called?

[A]

Palindromes.

[B]

With this palindrome. Yes.

[A]

Dimitri Martin also has written the longest palindrome in. In the world, which is awesome.

[C]

Oh, really?

[A]

You, like, told the joke that said.

[C]

Like a palindrome, which again, shouldn't palindrome be a palindrome? It's.

[A]

That's good.

[B]

They're like, really miss. Yeah, they really missed an opportunity there.

[C]

They should change palindrome to Kabuk.

[A]

Kobuk means palindrome.

[B]

What's your favorite palindrome before Kabuk?

[C]

Race car comes to mind? I probably don't have a favorite. It's just whichever ones I can think of.

[B]

There's, like, an express. There's. I'm trying to remember, like, famous one that from childhood.

[C]

There's, like, sentences put together.

[B]

Oh, a man, a plan, a canal Panama. Boob is a palindrome.

[C]

Well done.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

You ever flip the. The calculator upside down in math class and do that?

[A]

Boobless coming apart.

[B]

That was. That was a big part of my life.

[A]

Can you believe it went from, like.

[C]

Now they're just actually Googling boobs in class and not writing it out on a.

[B]

Right.

[A]

They're having A.I. just make boobs for them. Like, look, there's, like, six go.

[B]

Oh, this is another one. Go hang. Go hang a salami. I'm a lasagna hog. I remember that from childhood. DK loves DK's a little go hang a salami comma. I'm a lasagna hog.

[A]

I didn't know DK Lo Pa drums.

[B]

I remember, like, reading these back.

[A]

More Palin drums for dk. I want to read these to DK emails.

[B]

All right, I'll stop Googling them then. Yeah, Palindromes are fun.

[C]

These are, like, AI sentences. Like, I'm looking at one cigar, toss it in a can. It's so tragic.

[B]

That doesn't make any sense.

[A]

Mendoza would say, yeah.

[C]

Yo, banana boy.

[B]

Come on. That's good.

[C]

No lemon, no melon.

[B]

I very much just remember a man, a plan, a canal, Panama. Anyway, what were you talking about? Oh, yeah. Is that the only email that you had?

[A]

I had more. We could get out of here.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

Next episode, Cub Buck blew my mind.

[B]

Cub Buck is his last name Buc, though?

[C]

No, but whatever.

[A]

Ruin it. Need a good thing going. Sorry.

[C]

Be cool, man.

[A]

All right, let's get out of here. Thank you, dk. Thank you, Craig. Thank you, Austin. Thank you, Cam. Thank you, Carlos. Thank you, Kai. Thank you, everyone, for listening, watching. Set the reminder on Netflix or follow us on Spotify or wherever you get your pods. Watch, listen, whatever, Instagram, tick, tock, discord. See the episode description. Thank you, everyone. Thank you to Steve Bishadi, Raven's owner, for doing that while we were recording. That was actually.

[B]

Yeah, that was great. Great.

[A]

Convenient, but of course. Thank you, Lord, Lord.

[B]

Thank you, Teddy Swims. I know one song by him.

[A]

Oh, I thought that was a palindrome. I just assumed, but it's not.

[C]

No. What's the song?

[A]

You know, Teddy Swims? What's Lose Controls Handle. What about someone else?

[B]

Amana. I'm a lasagna hog. No, wait, I'm a baloney hog.

[C]

Ed Sheeran is Teddy's photos.

[A]

Teddy's photos? I thought that's. What.

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

Teddy Swims is.

[C]

I'm. I'm vaguely familiar with Teddy Swims.

[B]

I don't know anything about him.

[C]

How did his name pop into your head?

[B]

Just, you know, I. I know that song, Lose Control. Oh, you would recognize.

[C]

How's it going?

[A]

That song's great.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Well, let me rephrase. That song. Super stuck in my head. How's it go, dk?

[B]

No, I'm not gonna try it. I think it's like a harder.

[A]

Thing's just.

[B]

It's not like you can just say it, Craig.

[C]

I don't know how to explain it, but I don't like songs like that.

[B]

You know, you just can't explain well because, like, taste for things.

[C]

That's just a pop song. But there are certain songs that are like that, and I don't like them, and I don't know how to describe them. And I. And I'm trying to think of other songs that are like that. Like, like, like do. Like famous Benson Boone song. Don't like it.

[A]

You don't like Flippy Boy?

[C]

I don't like Little Flippy Boy.

[A]

I got it. I'm embarrassed to say the control that. It's funny. I call it the Control song.

[C]

Beautiful Things.

[A]

It's cool. I don't like when. Yeah. Lose Control. I guess that the. I'm embarrassed to say that if that song's on, like, a Starbucks or something and I'm talking to someone. I actually was like, in my head, I'm like, I wish you would stop talking so I could listen to this controls.

[B]

Yeah, I know. I totally know what you're getting at, though, Craig.

[C]

I don't know how to describe it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Cheap.

[C]

Yeah. Maybe it's like they're designed to be earworms, but isn't it. I feel like most pop songs are like, I feel like an earworm, but I like that song. Yeah, I. I don't. I don't know.

[A]

But if you. I saw him do it at the Grammys, and I was like, I, I. I think this guy, he's kind of losing control.

[B]

Is it like. Is it. Is it sort of like songs that are designed to show off how you can sing?

[C]

Maybe that's your range, cuz Beautiful things. He like, screams it it. Yeah, maybe. Maybe that's it.

[B]

You're like, okay.

[A]

Is there a difference for you when men or women do it? Like, if there's like a. Like a Seline Dion song like, I assume heart will go on like or like songs for your range.

[C]

Adele. Wicked. I'm not like, mad at Adele singing, you know, whatever.

[A]

Park and Bark legend.

[C]

Hello. So I don't know. I don't know what it is.

[A]

Email us if you do music and you know what we're talking about, please.

[C]

The only other song I can think of right now is Benson Boone's beautiful things. That's like kind of the same type of song to me, but I don't. I don't know if it's like a ballad or what. Or what? I don't know.

[A]

Someone's gonna know. Email us if you know why Craig hates Lose Control by Teddy Swift.

[B]

I really like that question. Yeah.

[A]

All right, goodbye, everyone.

[B]

Sa.