← The Ringer Fantasy Football Show
The Ringer Fantasy Football Show
Player Comps for the Best RBs in the Draft, the Jalen Hurts ESPN Story, the Annual NFL Coaches Photo, and ABS vs. Waymo
01:47:05
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- [00:00]
A
This episode is brought to you by Brooks. Running connects us to a rush of energy that flows through our world. The cheers of friends that unlock a new gear within us, the intersection of interest that inspires a run crew, the support that gets you over the finish line. Connection is why we move forward and what inspires us to keep going. Let's run there. Learn more@brooksrunning.com this episode is brought to you by TaxAct. TaxAct helps tackle taxes, guiding you step by step so you can get your maximum refund, get tips along the way, add expert assist to talk to tax experts or let our experts do your taxes for you with expert full service. TaxAct helps you find the deductions and credits you deserve so you can get them over with. Visit taxact.com to learn more. Conditions apply. See taxact.com for for details. Welcome to the NFL Draft Show. Oh, my God. It's the Ringer NFL Draft Show. I almost forgot. Ringer specific mistake has never happened. Let's just keep it ringer. NFL Draft show. Ringer Fantasy football show. Whatever's going on here. My name is Danny Hyphen. Today I'm joined by Danny Kelly and Craig Horlbeck and we're going to go over the running backs in the 2026 NFL Draft, or most of them, because a lot of them aren't that good. So we're going to go over the like half dozen that we like. Right, D.K.
- [01:37]
B
that's right. It's kind of a down year for running back. There's two main guys and they played for the same team.
- [01:44]
A
All right, well, there's our show, so
- [01:45]
B
we'll get into that, but we'll get into the other guys. I think there are a handful of players that could be sleepers here in this draft. Late third, maybe early fourth rounders that end up being contributors on their team. So there are. There are a few guys I'm excited about. I will say that.
- [01:57]
A
Craig, do you have a better pitch for people to listen to this episode? That we have some guys who could be contributors on their team?
- [02:02]
B
We're not going to lie to people here.
- [02:04]
A
All right, maybe we should.
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C
Business of lying. No, we are lie. This will be the most important podcast you've ever listened to.
- [02:10]
A
All right, we're going to go through that. We're going to have to talk about a little baseball and all the umpiring and the disappearance of players height and a bunch of things. Kyle Shanahan's pissed about playing in Australia versus the Rams. Sean McVeigh's pissed about the two point conversion. He can't get over from the Shaq Charbonnet play. A lot of stuff. Refs and. And a lot of people emailed in about the Jets DK's vibes ranking with the Jets. I cannot wait to read you some of the emails jets fans sent about DK's rankings.
- [02:36]
B
I already admitted I was wrong. All right, you have to rub it in.
- [02:38]
C
All right, we're going to double down.
- [02:41]
B
Yes, you should have what you would have done, Craig.
- [02:43]
A
We're going to go through these running backs and we're going to try to preview the running backs here at the draft. And again, we continue to cover the league after the season ends. We're still doing fantasy. If you like us to draft coverage, stick with us for the season. Everything too. But first, I want to go through this Jalen Hurts story that ESPN had Today with Tim McManus at ESPN wrote this large story about Jalen Hurts that was, I don't know, just like just a great page six gossip session of just the Eagles back. Just all this backstabbing. I don't even know what to make of it. Craig, what was your favorite line in this story? There was like a bunch of things, but it was fun.
- [03:20]
C
What was my favorite line? I don't know. There's just a lot of anonymous quotes about. I did. I enjoyed McManus having to hedge a little bit where it was kind of like, it's very clear that Jalen Hurts. His personality annoys a lot of people and his stoicism, you know, can be viewed as leadership in some ways and being steadfast and not, you know, not wavering and also just being kind of annoying and pompous and feeling above everyone else. So it was fun to kind of read through the line, read between the lines of how many people. Basically it's a classic story of like, when you're not winning, this stuff's kind of annoying. And dk, I want you to read it and I wish you had read it because there are a lot of Russell Wilson comparisons to what is going on right now with Philly and Jalen Hurts.
- [04:05]
B
Yeah, I mean, I, I have. I've read bits and pieces of the article. I'm excited to kind of dig into it more. But basically, yeah, the parallels to the Russell Wilson sort of demise in Seattle are so similar. It's basically, it's the same stuff. I think a lot of his teammates started to resent Russell Wilson. I think you're seeing that with, with Jalen Hurts, like towards the end Russell Wilson was taking like all the credit for everything, or at least it was the appearance that he was taking a lot of the credit. He was kind of a separate entity on the team, which I think is kind of happening here a little bit with Hertz, where like a half coach, half player, he was kind of aloof, you know what I mean? Like, and as time went on, I think a lot of players started to resent him for that, so. And then also just the parallels of they play a very similar style of football where they can't throw over the middle of field. It's very limited. And every time you bring in a new oc, they're like, I got all these new ideas. And then it's like, oh, actually we're just going to run the exact same.
- [04:57]
C
And there's. There have been a lot of ocs. I think one of the things that jumped out to me that I was not super aware of is how much Hertz is calling his own shots on the field. Where there was a whole piece in the article about how Hertz is just checking out a place and him and him and receivers and him and AJ Brown are just like calling plays that Jalen Hurts likes to throw, which are just like deep shots because he doesn't like throwing over the middle of the field. And that basically when he didn't have an offensive coordinator who was a hard ass, Hertz would kind of take over the offense and do what he wanted with it, which ended up hurting the team. And Kellen Moore and Shane Steichen, the two coordinators that he had the most success, success with, were more hard asses and were more strict, even going back to like, college. It seems like Hertz is better when he has a coach that is a little bit on him more. And when he has the freedom to do what he wants, he kind of gets into bad habits.
- [05:48]
B
Yeah. And I think that's kind of similar to Russell Wilson.
- [05:52]
A
Yeah.
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B
And it's funny, there's so many similarities between these two stories.
- [05:55]
C
There are.
- [05:56]
A
And obviously maybe it sounds strange to compare Jalen Hurts and Russell Wilson, where Russell Wilson doesn't seem like the tush push level six, can squat 600 pounds, but again, they're not throwing over the middle of the field. Maybe because Hertz isn't quite able to see over there either, or whatever it is, but they both prefer this. The hard road of, well, we'll just throw outside deep shots, which is like, we'll just really execute really well, a very, very difficult play. And then when that doesn't Work. It's kind of like, oh, well. And so, hey, don't you want to do the easier path of go under center and take a snap from under center and then do replay action, which is going to make Saquon Barkley. It's easier for him to run from under center, which Saquon says in the story. And then you could play action off of that, and then that's going to pull the defense, and then you turn around and Jalen Hurts doesn't want to do that because he doesn't want to turn his back to the defense. That's a huge theme of the story. And I get it, because on one hand, Jalen Hurts won a Super bowl pretty decisively doing that. Almost won two Super Bowls. Just everything from shotgun, basically. But it's, I don't know the theme that jumps out here. There's a lot of, like, quotes that. I don't know if it's Kevin Petullo, the offensive coordinator, but one of them was, you never know what play is coming out of the huddle when Hertz is leading it. Which was a quote that really jumped out at me. Another one was there were very few public. This is all from the Tim McManus Jeremy fellow story. But there were very few public interactions between A.J. brown and Jalen Hurts early in the 2025 season. There were even times when they would connect for a touchdown and then not seek each other out after the touchdown, which.
- [07:18]
B
I love this.
- [07:19]
A
I. I wish I didn't, but I do love that. I. Yeah, but, yeah, I. Overall, just. I think the point was that. Sean. Sean, I'm going to get this wrong 100 times this year. Sean. Manion. Mania. No, it's Manion the offensive quarter, man.
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C
Why did you potentially suggest it was mania?
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A
I thought it was going to get it wrong.
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B
And mania.
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C
You thought there was a chance it was mania.
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A
Well, I was just sharp, Manion. And then I. I don't. I look at this point of ptsd.
- [07:47]
B
That's fair. That's fair.
- [07:48]
C
Okay.
- [07:49]
B
The thing that comes to my mind when I'm reading all some of these quotes is like the. You'll never know what play is coming out of the huddle.
- [07:54]
C
It.
- [07:55]
B
It is, I think, very funny, because a lot of coaches, they spend so much time game planning, all figuring out plays, figuring out the weaknesses of a defense, like staying up all night watching tape, doing all this stuff, putting in the game plan, putting in all the, like, doing everything, and then fucking the quarterback just changes the play at the line. Gotta. Gotta be infuriating especially when it's not working.
- [08:15]
C
Well, it's funny cause, like, this isn't always how it used to be. You know, it wasn't until pretty much the 90s that that co. Like coaches started calling the plays, which it feels
- [08:23]
B
insane, but like, drawing it up on their hand.
- [08:26]
C
When Terry Bradshaw won the Super Bowls for the Steelers, like, he called every play himself, which is pretty remarkable.
- [08:32]
B
That's weird.
- [08:32]
C
And that happened all the way up until basically the 90s and stuff like that. But I always find it fascinating. Heifers. Do you think it was always a thing that. That there were some quarterbacks that just didn't like turning their back to the defense? Or is that a newer development? Because of the development track that quarterbacks are on in college and how they are. They are trained a little bit differently now.
- [08:52]
A
It's the development track from high school. It's that I think quarterbacks used to be under center and it used to be all but under center. Play action, everything. And then you go to. It's the combination of spread offense going out through high school football everywhere. So this elimination of the running game and the specialization of the same way you had AAU and basketball changing the way basketball players learn. You have in Texas. Don't forget a quarter of the quarterbacks in the NFL are coming from Texas and all these places. They're doing like seven on seven camps over the summer. So you're learning seven on seven ball. You a lot of receivers learning to play seven on seven, where there's a lot of footwork, Instagram, TikTok videos. But maybe not so much blocking and stuff. But then quarterback. Same thing where you're learning a lot of like, spacing stuff. I mean, Arch Manning, there was a whole thing on Arch, the young one talking to Archie Manning, his grandfather. And Archie Manning had this quote where he was like, I told my grandson, like, Arch Manning asking Archie about quarterbacking. And Archie's number one thing was, you have to have command of the huddle. That's my number one advice for his quarterback. And we don't huddle, grandpa. We don't huddle. And Archie was like, damn, that's crazy. And it's like the game is completely different and the spacing is part of it. Because think about it, as stupid as it sounds, if you're in shotgun your entire career, from when you're 13 to 22 or 25 or 27, like Hertz's, and they're like, okay, now go under center and turn your back for half of the time you used to staring and you turn around. He already doesn't like throwing over the middle of the field when he can see it the whole time. Imagine throwing over the middle of the field when he can see it for like half a second.
- [10:20]
C
So yeah. And like, you know, I think the Eagles success running the ball in their great offensive line, you know, filled in a lot of the gaps that Jalen Hurts had. Right. Like they were able to succeed when everything else was cooking and when it's not, he's a little bit exposed.
- [10:37]
A
Eagles fans also are going to go crazy over this because on one hand I it's hard when your quarterbacks want a Super bowl and gets criticized a lot. I think that. And they're gonna be like. But it's like this is. People in. In the Eagles organization are very unhappy. A.J. brown's unhappy because Jalen hurts won't get him the ball but really won't push it into zones. Devonte Smith was talking about how he's upset that there aren't like layups, which is true. Like why does devonte Smith who want Heisman in Alabama?
- [11:01]
C
If you had AJ Brown. If you had AJ Brown in fantasy last year, there were no layups banked in threes were the only way you could score.
- [11:09]
A
Winning solves, everything. And that is also the similarity between the Seahawks and the Eagles, where it's for the Seoks from a decade ago and the Eagles now, where it's when the Eagles are winning, nobody cares. But then it's all these problems leak out because there's a lot of frustration because they obviously have the talent to win. But it's everything. It's. You lose the coaching, the coaches leave. Like Kellen Moore leaves for the Saints head coaching job last year. So the coaching's a little worse. The offensive line's not as good. Again, Landon Dickerson I and and Lane Johnson I they got hurt on like the same play in the Cowboys in week one. The line wasn't as good. And then Lane Johnson's older. He's coming back this year, but he considered retiring. Everyone's a little older. And so when it's not an elite offensive line, it's just good or above average. Then Saquon can't run. The Saquon can't get to 2,000 yards anymore. And I it all makes everything a little. You have less margin for error and then Jalen Hurts is trying really, really hard plays on offense and you need margin of error. So when the margin of error goes down, then everything's a little harder and then you suddenly have a three and out rate. That's like the Titans.
- [12:06]
C
But the really, really hard plays are not just because they have huge upside. It's because it's what he's comfortable doing the most. And I, Yeah, I would love to ask a coach or a player around the league, like, how many quarterbacks are calling plays and audibling to plays because of their own, like, anxieties or limitations mentally. Like, like just the. The fear of, like, not wanting to do something and that being why you call a certain play. I wonder how common that is.
- [12:34]
A
It's probably a bigger issue than you think. I mean, Joe Burrow, I think the Bengals, Aaron Rodgers. Aaron Rodgers has made a career of it. Yeah, I think there's more of it than you think. But it's. It's everything. It's motion. It's all these things that they all have to be together. A.J. brown was literally of every receiver that I think ran 100 routes last year. AJ Brown was in the slot, the least of any receiver. And. But that's a function of not having motion, not having all these things. But that's up to Jalen Hurts.
- [12:57]
C
I'm going to defend my quarterback for a second. What do you mean, Aaron Rodgers? What are you talking about?
- [13:02]
B
It's been a. It's been a story for a very long time. By the way, this. This Jalen Hurts storyline has kind of been a known secret for a very long time. This is something that people have known for a while.
- [13:10]
A
Every, like, it's not really a bombshell in here.
- [13:12]
C
Yeah.
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B
Right.
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A
It's just fun.
- [13:14]
C
But it is.
- [13:15]
B
It reminds me of the Seth Wickersham article back in the day about the Seahawks when it was like, it came out that Russell Wilson was like, screaming, you fucking suck. Sorry. Richard Sherman was screaming, you fucking suck at Russell Wilson in practice.
- [13:26]
C
That. That's so bad.
- [13:27]
B
So that was like. It sort of. It was like, okay, this is actually real. All the rumors and kind of innuendo we'd heard about the. The defense.
- [13:34]
C
Yeah. Like, the people inside the building knew that Russ was not as good as everybody outside the building thought he was.
- [13:38]
B
Right. So anyways, that sort of. With the Rogers thing, like, it's been a known secret for a long time. Or maybe it's not even a secret. It's just he checks to. He checks to whatever play he wants, every play. And it's like, that's why you can't
- [13:49]
C
run a normal run. Yeah, but the difference is, is that Rogers could make every throw in the total.
- [13:53]
B
I was gonna say, I'M not saying he's the same as Jalen Hurts. I'm just saying it kind of pisses off offensive coordinators when Aaron Rodgers.
- [14:00]
C
Aaron Rodgers are doing it when they can make every single play and they're making the smartest decision.
- [14:05]
B
I agree, I agree. However, the Aaron Rodgers thing. Aaron Rodgers now when he does it, it's a very limited offense.
- [14:14]
C
He's 42 and he likes.
- [14:16]
B
I'm just saying. What are you talking about? This is kind of a similar thing.
- [14:20]
C
No, I don't think it's.
- [14:21]
B
He doesn't want to get hit so he just checks to a frickin smoke route so he can get rid of the ball at half a second.
- [14:27]
C
But that's different than being in your prime and you can't throw over the
- [14:31]
B
middle of the field again.
- [14:32]
C
Borderline MVP quarterback Aaron Rodgers is a
- [14:34]
B
better quarterback than Jason.
- [14:36]
C
When Rogers was 28 years old, Rogers was not checking out of plays that he felt uncomfortable with because he felt physically limited. Where he couldn't make that play. He would be like, sure, I'm gonna throw a back shoulder to Jordy because
- [14:46]
A
it's a. I don't think Hurts is saying he's, he's physically limited. I think hers in his head is like I want to do it this way. And again I think Eagles fans are probably screaming right now like they won a Super Bowl. They, they should have won. They almost really won two Super Bowls versus the Chiefs.
- [14:59]
C
Which if they did, by the way, if they won two Super Bowls. Do you think this article is written if that holding call or whatever it was was not called it. Is this article written even if it's the exact same situation?
- [15:08]
B
Probably not.
- [15:08]
A
Well, Philly also, they can be a, they can pretend but they love being winning. They love being champions and angry. That's the old I want to do
- [15:14]
C
a poll because like if you're just in the, if you're just in the comments, it's like a lot of people being like Jalen Hurts is a fullback masquerading as a quarterback. So I, I would be curious to see what Eagles fans think. I want to do a vote.
- [15:27]
A
Let's do I think the, the, the poll. Eagles fan, do you believe in Jalen Hurts? Eagles fan do not believe in Jalen Hurts. Non Eagles. I believe like, you know, I want to know the difference between. Sure, yeah, we could figure it out.
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B
Honor system, I guess. Yeah.
- [15:43]
A
Okay, so we'll do that. I'm sure that it's the last time we'll talk about the. It's one of those that it doesn't matter if they win the NFC east and make the championship game, but if they miss the playoffs, we're gonna be like, that was bad that people wanted to talk for that.
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C
Okay, it's good stuff. It's good fodder.
- [15:57]
A
And again, if Jalen Hurts does crash out, they could get out of that contract at the end of the season. And I know Eagles fans could be pissed about that. Guess what? The Eagles fans getting out of Herz's contract now is not as crazy as getting out of Carson Wentz's contract would have sounded in 2019. Very long they've done this. But all Eagles fans pissed of us talking about this for they did this like seven years ago to Carson Wentz. That's why her does the job. He took Carson Wentz out and I know he didn't win the super bowl, but like, that was more shocking than this.
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C
Very little guaranteed money left for Jalen Hurts, and I don't think they're going to extend him anytime soon.
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A
The other thing, Eagles fans, email us about that if you're angry. I, I, my gut is Eagles fans like Jalen Hurts and our angry age,
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C
my gut is they're annoyed with him.
- [16:39]
A
The only thing I want to mention is German McCoy, the cornerback from Tennessee who at Torres ACL in December 2024, didn't play all of 2025, didn't work at the combine, did have the pro day at Tennessee, did run, ran a 4, 3, 8, 40 yard dash. So a 4, 4, basically 38 inch vertical jump. He, he ran fast and jumped high, but we hadn't seen him play in 14 months. So this was like important. DK, do you think McCoy might now be like the number one cornerback drafted in the draft? Do you think he's a top 10 pick maybe?
- [17:06]
B
Yeah, he could be. It's going to be between him and Mansoor Delaine probably. And top 15 pick is, is in range now. I know that, I know that we have always kind of cautioned against the importance of pro days and of the importance of the combine and everything, but to me this was just like, okay, he's alive. This is proof of life. Like we haven't seen him in over a year. We haven't seen him run in over a year. So like the fact that he is running and running, running very fast and showing explosiveness and things like that, it's, it's dramatic in terms of how much better I feel about him going into this draft. So yes, I think this does matter and it puts it Back on the map in the first round. Top, probably top half of the first round.
- [17:43]
A
It's funny, I think J. Sorry, it's. Jermad McCoy is perfect for Dallas at number 12. But the irony is Dallas's other two cornerbacks are also hurt. They drafted Siobhan Ravel, who had a knee reconstruction in college and probably would have been a borderline first round pick for enough of the knee. And then they also have Duron Bland who had two foot surgeries in two years. So part of me wants to give him a coy and part of me is like, that's three is too many quarterbacks recovering from.
- [18:03]
B
Right.
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C
What, what qualifies as a knee reconstruction? Like an ACL tear is not a knee reconstruction.
- [18:08]
A
You know what? I said that. And as I said. And I was like, I don't think that's right. It was, it was an A. Siobhan Revel Torres, acl.
- [18:13]
C
When you, when you hear reconstruction, I, I, I feel like you need multiple leg.
- [18:17]
B
They're putting stuff back together.
- [18:19]
C
Well, they're always doing that.
- [18:21]
A
In, in theory, I don't know.
- [18:22]
B
What, I don't know.
- [18:23]
A
In theory, they are all restrictions.
- [18:25]
C
They're all reconstructions. Sure. But that term feels weighted to me. Like when I hear knee reconstruction, I'm like, oh, my God, they tore three ligaments in there. Right?
- [18:32]
A
Okay.
- [18:33]
C
I don't know. That just jumped out to me.
- [18:36]
A
Thank you.
- [18:36]
B
I think I agree with that. Yeah.
- [18:37]
A
Right. Okay, let's get to running back deep dive position this year.
- [18:42]
B
So let's do it.
- [18:43]
A
We're gonna do, I think we're going to do this. Are we doing 50 shades of gray here, Craig? Are we doing high end, low end? I think the key.
- [18:51]
C
I wanted to honor my favorite movie series. So we are going to be doing it 50 shades of gray style.
- [18:56]
B
Your favorite movie franchise.
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C
Yeah. I actually have seen all of these films.
- [19:02]
A
I think the books are. I don't know if the.
- [19:03]
C
I didn't read the books, but I did go to college with a girl named Anastasia Steele.
- [19:08]
B
Are you kidding?
- [19:09]
C
Yeah. Isn't that insane?
- [19:10]
A
What was her life like?
- [19:12]
C
Well, I didn't really know her. I remember I was just in class with my buddy and we like heard, we were like, wait, what? And then we like confirmed that that was her name. And then I don't know why my, my roommate Jared and I were just like, let's just watch all the 50 Shades of Gray movies in like three days. And we did.
- [19:26]
A
Yeah. You don't know why?
- [19:28]
C
Well, to be honest, it's like who
- [19:29]
A
could, who could think? Who knows? Yeah.
- [19:31]
B
You sicko.
- [19:32]
C
To be honest with you, like when you actually watch those movies, like they're not. Maybe we're all desensitized, but like they're not that salacious.
- [19:40]
A
I think it's supposed. I think the book. I think the point. I think the book is the move. It should be a different movies are fine, but should be a different kind of move.
- [19:47]
B
Okay, so are we doing 50 shades of gray for running backs?
- [19:50]
A
I think the point we want to do with these. I think we love the comparisons. Right. Like the player comparisons. But the problem is DK sometimes compares a player to Doug Baldwin and then we freak out because that's boring.
- [19:59]
B
Yeah.
- [20:00]
A
So in reality, what we've done here is we've just basically. Deacon, I have tried to have the best possible ish version of a player's
- [20:06]
C
career out of 10 of guys.
- [20:08]
A
Yes. Yeah. Like, of all the universes of like this guy's career could go like this. Or bat. You look back, you're like, wow, this was the best version of it or the worst version version. Or close to it. We're going to give it that way. Like kind of Goldilocks style. Really good, really bad. And then the most likely outcome. Because we'll be honest, if we only give the most likely outcome, it's pretty boring.
- [20:26]
C
Yeah, I think it's way more interesting. I want to hear high end, low end and what's probably in between. And most likely. So we'll start with Jeremiah Love from Notre Dame, who is by far the best running back in his class. And up there with like the Bijan Saquons of the last five or seven years or so. Wouldn't you say, dk?
- [20:42]
B
Yeah, I think he's in that tier of. I'm not going to call him a generational prospect, but I think he's one of the more high end prospects we've seen in the last 10 years. 10, 15 years at running back.
- [20:52]
C
So give me the elevator pitch on him and, and, and who your high end comp would be for him.
- [20:57]
A
Do high end.
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B
And the elevator pitch is that he's an extremely explosive home run hitting back who is awesome in the past game.
- [21:04]
C
What's his size? He's big.
- [21:06]
B
He's not that big. He's like 210, I think hyphens. You have his, his number, his size. His actual size right around. It's. Yeah, he's 6 foot 2, 10.
- [21:13]
A
Yeah. 6ft tall too. Which a lot of these guys are big.
- [21:16]
C
Yeah. I mean 6 foot 212 is what you have in the draft. I mean that's, that's larger I would say for your running back.
- [21:22]
B
So to me the top end, the high end comp for him and style, this is more stylistic, not necessarily like his exact dimensions, but it's a Jameer Gibbs type player where extremely explosive given the ball, he can score from anywhere, basically makes guys miss and he's very good in the pass game and can be like a rece. Essentially a de facto slot receiver at times depending on how you utilize them. So in terms of the type of player you're getting, I think you're getting a Jameer Gibbs esque type player. That's the high end comp for me.
- [21:50]
C
And an elite hurdler.
- [21:53]
B
He's also, he loves a spin move. He, he spins away from dudes like four, four times on a run.
- [21:58]
C
He was built on Madden, you know, he's playing Madden football in real life. So. Okay, who is the low heifers? What do you do you agree with that for the high end Jameer Gibbs?
- [22:06]
A
Yeah, high end Jamir Gibbs. I think the highest end version of me to Jamara Jeremiah Love is like a career comp is Christian McCaffrey. I think the style, everything about it and I think the same question Christian McCaffrey had coming out, which is well, is he going to be able to play in between the tackles? Is that the question? Three down back, same with Gibbs. Jamir Gibbs, same question. I think Jeremiah Love like yes, like I think there's a few tackle like a few plays versus, I mean I think one was versus Iowa, one versus Penn State. There's a few times like important gotta have it moments where you just see his feet keep churning and I'm like he's going to be able to be an inside the tackle runner. And now you look back at McCaffrey you're like of course he was. I think the lower end comp where if we look back and Jameer Gibson or sorry if Jeremiah loves disappointing. I think the lowest end version of his career is Reggie Bush in the NFL, which he was fine.
- [22:46]
B
He doesn't live up to expectations.
- [22:49]
A
An incredible pass catching back. Reggie Bush ran for a thousand yards twice and he was always in a committee. And that's not probably what we thought Reggie Bush would be when he was drafted really high by the Saints in 2006. But I think that's like the worst version for Jeremiah Love is he's always in a committee and he's an incredible receiver but he's not for actually the guy. But I think he'll probably just more settle into like, you know, behind McCaffrey and Gibbs and Bijan as a top five running back.
- [23:15]
C
DK, you have any qualms with him going in the top 10 in the draft?
- [23:18]
B
I do, but that's more just a team based thing I think talent wise in this class he's. He's in the top 10 for sure.
- [23:25]
C
Some people have him as number one in the draft and just straight talent.
- [23:28]
B
Right. And I understand that to me the mid range, if we're just looking at sort of like a, you know, maybe not. You don't hit the high end. You don't. He never turns into like a big time superstar. But yeah, the Goldilocks a good productive player. Travis Etienne came to mind. Melvin Gordon came to mind where there was high end expectations with these guys. I mean if you look at their stats.
- [23:49]
C
That's not what I want to hear.
- [23:50]
A
Melvin Gordon is. Is the. Is the bad. It's about boring play style and a boring name.
- [23:55]
C
Melvin Gordon and Travis Etienne, which is. He's now hn. Travis hn.
- [23:59]
B
Right, right, right.
- [24:00]
C
Travis etn. Now hn.
- [24:01]
B
Hn.
- [24:02]
C
We should. How about Kenneth, say the running back formerly known as Travis etn.
- [24:06]
A
We should. The running back formerly known as Travis etn.
- [24:08]
B
The symbol.
- [24:09]
A
Because the past. My brain doesn't have anything for Travis.
- [24:11]
C
Would you say the most likely outcome is that he becomes Melvin Gordon? You're just saying that is the average.
- [24:17]
B
That's the, that's like a mid range. I'm not saying this is the most likely. I'm saying, you know, a guy basically. Here's, here's why I think of those guys. Travis ctn over. Over a thousand yards in three out of the four seasons. Would you say he's been a failure? No, but he's definitely didn't live up to expectations in terms of the hype that he had coming into the league. I don't think he hasn't been quite as dynamic and explosive as people thought he would be in terms of like creating big plays. He was really good in the passing game in college and didn't. Hasn't done that quite as much in the pros. I think. Melvin Gordon, same deal. Like he was running for like 500 yards a game. I mean his college career was insane. And then he came into the league and he did battle a few injuries, but he was pretty productive and he was in the league for a long time.
- [25:01]
C
So.
- [25:01]
B
Was he a failure? No, but he was. Well, you know, definitely did not live up to expectations. So that's how I was looking at this. The low end comp would be like a complete failure. Like Trent Richardson. That was like how. That's the spectrum. I was going.
- [25:14]
C
Well, sure. I think based on where he gets drafted, if he becomes Melvin Gordon, that is a failure.
- [25:20]
B
Yeah, I understand that.
- [25:22]
C
You're Melvin Gordon. That's a failure.
- [25:24]
A
I just thought of this because it's along the line of guys that were disappointing, but actually a top 10 pick. And I'm just thinking of this live. So maybe this is a bad comparison. But remember C.J. spiller?
- [25:33]
B
Sure.
- [25:34]
A
And how amazing it was and how exciting it was. And he was the ninth pick and
- [25:37]
C
then was he that nice?
- [25:38]
B
He was sub 200 pounds though. Dude.
- [25:40]
C
CJ Spiller was like the. I don't want like, like draft nerd. Like die hard fantasy guy. Like everybody was obsessed with CJ Spiller and would bet on him every year until he was basically out of the. That this was going to be the year he popped and he never really did.
- [25:54]
B
C.J. spiller was the reason the Seahawks got Marshawn Lynch. So I'm glad that the bills drafted C.J. spiller. They made Lynch a little bit redundant and expendable. Traded to the Seahawks, the rest is history. So I was happy about that.
- [26:05]
C
Dk. Melvin Gordon had a thousand yards once in his NFL career.
- [26:08]
B
Yeah. Maybe you put him as a low. How long was he in the. He was in the seat.
- [26:12]
C
I think it's the lowest played till he was 30. Yeah. If he's, if, if, if Jeremiah Love is Melvin Gordon, I would say everyone would be pissed.
- [26:19]
A
Well, Bo.
- [26:19]
B
Yes, of course. I'm not saying. No, this is not, this is to me, this isn't the ex. How about this? What about like, how does it make you feel if I said the mid range outcome is a guy like Kenneth Walker, does that still like make you upset?
- [26:31]
C
Well, talent wise, I think that's good. But it's hard because he's not that far into his career and he's had injury.
- [26:37]
B
I think by definition a mid range. A mid range Goldilocks outcome is going to be disappointing because you're taking him in the top 10.
- [26:43]
C
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I kind of. I guess I'm asking like, who's the worst player you think he could be? Where everyone would be satisfied.
- [26:52]
A
That's a, that's an interesting question. Jonathan Taylor before he had his resurgence last year. Like how Colts fans feel about Jonathan Taylor entering last year year.
- [27:03]
B
Yeah.
- [27:03]
A
No one's like upset with him. Yeah.
- [27:05]
C
Yeah.
- [27:05]
A
But Everyone had kind of forgotten about
- [27:07]
C
like he, I think Jeremiah Love probably needs to be considered a top five running back in the NFL for many years. In the, in the, yeah.
- [27:14]
A
If you take a guy top to Absolutely. Like, Leonard Fournette was a, was not a good pick. Zeke Elliott was probably not the right pick for the Cowboys, but at least they got a lot of out of Zeke.
- [27:21]
B
He was awesome for a long time.
- [27:23]
A
Yeah, they took him over Jalen Ramsey, which is probably a mistake.
- [27:25]
B
But I mean, I think Jeremiah Love in particular is, it's, this is turning into an interesting discussion actually, because of how disappointing Craig disappointed Craig is because I do think it does.
- [27:37]
A
Fifth Giants, maybe I don't want Melvin Gordon.
- [27:39]
C
If you're like, yeah, on average he's Melvin Gordon, I'm like, that's horrible.
- [27:42]
B
I know. But I'm telling you, if you look at the hype that these guys had coming out of college, do you remember, do you remember what it was like when these guys were coming out of college? Like if you go, go look at Travis Etienne's college stats, I think Leonard scored 78 touchdowns in college.
- [27:56]
A
Yeah, but ETN. ETN.
- [27:58]
B
I'm not saying that, I'm not saying love is. ETN is definitely not getting the or he didn't get as much hype as
- [28:03]
A
he was the 25th pick. I think Leonard Fournette's a good comp because Leonard Fournette was a crazy high school.
- [28:08]
B
He was supposed to be like Bo Jackson.
- [28:09]
C
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was very wrong. I thought he was gonna be amazing in the NFL.
- [28:14]
A
I think Fournette's a good example of like how recently a running back drafted really high and then was fine. I think Jeremiah Love, I, I mean we, at some point I want to go into Jeremiah Love's background a little bit. I'm not worried about this man. All this man cares about is football and anime.
- [28:26]
C
I agree.
- [28:26]
A
He just like, he doesn't have much else going on. I, I, I, I. He's very focused individual.
- [28:30]
C
I think he's gonna be awesome.
- [28:32]
B
To be clear, I'm not saying he's gonna turn into Melvin Gordon.
- [28:36]
A
Instagram DK says Jeremiah loves Mel.
- [28:37]
B
Jesus Christ.
- [28:38]
A
I thought this, I thought the whole out.
- [28:40]
B
I thought the whole exercise was like, this is the top tier elite. What he could be. There's only a handful of guys he could be.
- [28:46]
A
This is why we didn't do the whole episode as mid range. We need the spectrum of the exact guys.
- [28:51]
C
Okay, should we move on to his teammate here, Jadarian Price? The other Running back on Notre Dame. Who DK is your second best running back in this draft? This is Jeremiah Love's teammate. What's the elevator pitch on him?
- [29:03]
B
He is just a smooth moving, explosive early down back. Who is going to get you yards. He's really instinctive in terms of finding the lane and hitting the gas and getting downfield. I don't think in relative and in other draft classes he'd probably be like my RB8 or something like that. And that just gives you an idea of kind of what this class is like. But I do think he's interesting. I think he could end up being in a committee and being productive. I don't know if he's a three down guy. He's not super involved in the passing game, but he is explosive, has good vision and can get through the line and go high.
- [29:41]
C
Fitz, what are your high end and low incomps for him?
- [29:44]
A
My high end comp for Jadarian Price is actually Tony Pollard in Dallas when we were like, is this the best guy in the NFL?
- [29:50]
C
Sure.
- [29:51]
A
Is he? And he's like probably not playing enough. And we're like, oh, should he play all the time? And my low end comp for Jadarian Price is Miles Sanders in Carolina where you're like this guy shouldn't be here. Miles Sanders is my low end comp for a reason. Miles Sanders was mogged by Saquon Barkley at Penn State. Miles Sanders was a good prospect and then Saquon was like the best prospect in a decade who came at Penn State and just was Saquon at Penn State. Miles Sanders was there. And the guess where Miles Sanders ended up? Philadelphia and had like a meager 1300 yards. And then guess who went to Philadelphia and had 2000 and it's Super Bowl MVP fucking Saquon. Or I guess he didn't win Super MVP, but like Saquon just mogged Miles Sanders his whole career. And I think that could be Jadarian Price. However, I think the perception of Jadarian Price is he's a two down back, a good two down back, stuck behind a great three down back. And Jeremiah Love. I don't know man, it's like I get it. Jadarian price only had 15 catches in all of college. 15 catches in four years. I kind of think Jadarin Price can catch and maybe is like a three down skill set and he just happened to be playing with like a Reggie Bush light esque player. So why would you throw it A Price and also the Penn State quarterback sucked But I think if Jadarian Price can catch dk, I don't know, it's. If he turned out to be. If I told you I've come from the future generic Price is an above average receiver as a running back. Where would. How would that change your perception of him?
- [31:07]
B
I mean, that definitely helps a lot. Yeah. And like you said, he had 15 catches in college. It's kind of hard to evaluate.
- [31:12]
A
Yeah.
- [31:13]
B
But there's definitely been guys in the past. I mean, Kenneth Walker is a good example. Like, he didn't catch hardly any passes in college and he's been a good receiver in the NFL. But I think it's just a lack of experience, a lack of proof, I guess that we've seen that if he does end up being a pretty good pass catching back, then that's certainly going to raise his value because right now I just view him more as like a early down, you know, create some explosive plays. The. Zach Charbonnet is the guy who comes to mind for me. He's like a downhill guy. Get. Get on your horse and go. And he does that a lot.
- [31:44]
A
But the interesting. The Charbonnet is the kick return stuff. Jajarian Price was the best kick returner last year in college football. He had the highest average yards per kick return. He returned two touchdowns in like 12 tries. I think he had three touchdowns in his career. Like 20. So like one out of every six or seven flock. I did it again. Six, seven. But one out of every seven kick returns should Darren Price return for a touchdown? Yeah, but like Zach Charbonnet is not doing that. And so I wonder. I'm like, okay, so if he has the. He also knows how to play running back. Like, I think he has vision and feel and the explosiveness. I don't know.
- [32:15]
B
I'm like, he does, he does have that spatial awareness. And that's like why he's good in the open field. Once he gets through the line, he can kind of like weave and, and just navigate his way through traffic in a way that's really fun to watch. And I think that's what shows up when he's a, when he's a kick returner too. So I think that makes a lot of sense.
- [32:32]
C
You know, he kind of reminds me of a little bit remember Marion Barber, who, Who unfortunately has. Has passed away, but Marian Barber was a guy who like feel like, was really solid as a first and second down guy. They're very similarly sized. I think they ran like the exact same 40 time and Mary and Barbara didn't catch passes in Colle and then actually got to the NFL and had like four seasons with 40 catches a year and was just like a very dependable first and second round guy. Our first and second down guy.
- [33:00]
A
It's not a bad comp. Marin Barber ran really hard.
- [33:03]
C
Yeah.
- [33:03]
A
And I, I, yeah, so that's not a bad comp. Yeah. So it's hard to know if guys are good receivers all the time coming into college. So we'll see.
- [33:09]
C
So where do you think he's going to go? DK like Mary Barber was a 4th round pick. Where do you think Judarian Price is going to go?
- [33:15]
B
Probably late. Second, early third would be my guess.
- [33:18]
A
Do you want, would you. If Jadarian Price is there and the Seahawks have the last pick of the second round, 60 with overall, would you want the Seals to take Jadarian Price?
- [33:25]
C
That's a hat on a hat though, right? If you're comparing him to Charbonnet, you don't want to charge.
- [33:28]
A
Well, Charbonnet is coming off a torn ACL in the playoffs, so I don't think he's going to play till after Thanksgiving. And he's a free agent, so, I mean, in theory, yeah, at that spot,
- [33:37]
B
I'd be fine with that.
- [33:38]
C
Yeah.
- [33:38]
B
There's people talking about them taking him in the first, which I'm not very excited about. But don't put it past, I'm not going to put it past John Schneider because he's taken running backs in the
- [33:48]
A
past and for sure no one's taking Jadarian Price in the first, actually. Unless John Snyder, because other than John Schneider, if you take a backup running back in college as the second running back in the first round and he sucks, then you're going to get fired for that. But I think, I think he's good. But I think the Seahawks.
- [34:04]
B
Yeah, I think he's good.
- [34:05]
A
And then Minnesota is also a team that I think would be interesting for Jadarian Price.
- [34:10]
C
So let's go to another guy that, that dk. I'm wondering if you would, you would want the Seahawks to draft to pair next to sex Charbonnet. Jonah Coleman out of Washington. Yeah, dk Give me, give me your rundown on this, on this little bowling
- [34:24]
B
ball of a man, the rolling ball of butcher knives. He is a squat, low to the ground, runs with a. Runs with a really low center of balance or whatever you call it.
- [34:36]
C
Center of gravity.
- [34:36]
B
Center of gravity. And he is just, he's really quick feet, good pass catcher, never fumbles, never drops the ball. Good and pass, bro. He's just a, he's one of those running backs that kind of just does a little bit of everything well, but nothing at an elite level. He is slow. That's the big problem with him. If he was, if he was like, he's big boned. If he was 2/10 of a second faster as a runner, he probably would be like a second round pick. Leave him alone.
- [35:02]
C
He's big boned.
- [35:04]
B
Yeah, he's, he's a thick boy. He's, he's, you know, five. What is, what is he listed at? 5, 8, 2, 20 or something like that. So he is, he's built low the ground. I kind of compare him to like a thick Bucky Irving or a thick Kyron Williams. Karen Williams, I think is actually an interesting conference because I remember when Kyron was coming out, everyone was excited about his skill set. He's really good at everything. He has good vision, he can make guys miss, he can catch the football. He's good in pass pro, he plays really hard. He's a team captain. All this stuff, you know, you hear about him and this is like what exactly what you're hearing about Jonah Coleman. Only problem is he's slow and that was exactly what made Kyron Williams fall to the fifth round. So.
- [35:40]
A
So Punk fell to the fifth round, among other things.
- [35:42]
B
Yeah.
- [35:43]
C
Hi, Fitz. What are your comps for him? Do you agree with that?
- [35:46]
A
Kyro Williams, Thick Kyron Williams is perfect and I think like thick Kyron Williams is perfect because my low incomp is like a Royce Freeman where it's like, I think Jonah Coleman's a three down back and the question is, will he play or not? Sometimes you're three down back but you're not good enough in any down to get any down work at all. And sometimes you're three down work. You're you three down back and you're good, you get the field. I think Jonah Coleman is the exact kind of running back that falls in the draft because he isn't a special athlete and then plays a lot for like nine years because coaches love him. Because Jonah Coleman does. The simplest thing is coaches do not have to limit what plays are called or personnel's on the field. If Jonah Coleman's there and they can trust him to do everything all the coaches care about, which is he can run a gap skiing inside on short down distance, he can run an outside zone and probably get away with it at the NFL level. He can block, he's a good blocker, he cares and he knows his Assignments and he can catch, he can run around, he can catch. He's like, no drops, no fumbles, he's a captain. It's all the little reasons. And then suddenly you look up and you're like, oh, why is Kyron Williams playing 94% of the snaps with Sean McVay? Well, Sean McVeigh thinks everyone else is going to fuck it up or get Matt Stafford killed and have Matt Stafford's career ended because he, he had. Matt Stafford had a, one of his spinal discs got rearranged because Blake Corum didn't know his assignment like that. You have, the coaches have to trust that you can do your job. And Jonah Coleman's the kind of guy that he's competent everywhere and just those guys play a lot.
- [37:07]
B
Yeah, I think somebody I. He had a quote go viral at the combine. Jonah Coleman did about pass pro and he was basically talking about how quarterbacks make 50 million. I'm gonna make like what, 2 million.
- [37:20]
C
Who?
- [37:20]
B
You do the math. And he said, if you give up one sack of game, you're gonna work at Amazon. I think this was attributed to him. I'm not 100. I don't, I didn't know he did.
- [37:28]
A
I don't know the Amazon part, but he did say that the other part that's.
- [37:30]
B
You're not gonna, sorry, you're not gonna play if you can't pass pro. It's simple. I'm paying 100 million. If you're paying 100 million to a quarterback, you're getting paid 2 million. Who's more important? So, yeah, I think it's. He's one of those guys where there is a path to the field because he does the little things well. But. And again, this is. He might go in the fourth round, he might go in the fifth round because he doesn't have that explosive speed. He's not going to create explosives for your offense, probably. By the way, he's really good in the, in the screen game as well. There's so many, there's so many similarities to Kyron Williams. I feel like him. And then my mid range comp would be someone like Blake Corum who had very similar skill set but then got stuck behind someone. Williams, Kyron Williams. So the Rams will probably draft this guy on the depth chart.
- [38:13]
A
But yeah, Scott Barrett had this post and that's fantasy points and fantasy points is phenomenal. And it's the percentile. You're cheating a little because it's in the draft class, not the overall college, but in the draft class. Jonah Coleman's like 97th percentile. And missed tackles forced per touch. And this is like his best season, 99% on yards after contact per attempt. So again, makes guys miss. Gets yards after. He makes guys miss. He's 92nd percentile in yards after the catch per reception. So he makes guys. He's able to get yards after he catches. And he's also 93 on receiving yards per route run. So he's efficient and he just go down the line. It's just he makes people miss. And he can maybe make people miss in the hole. Like, it's not if you don't have the speed. He can make people miss with power, like, and still hit the hole, which I think is how, like Bucky Irving gets missed is like, he can make people. He has the wiggle inside, which is important.
- [39:00]
C
Yeah. I wonder if the Chiefs bringing in Kenneth Walker, who's obviously a guy that, like, you maybe don't want to give 22 carries a game to and you want him to be well rested and explosive and healthy. I wonder if the Chiefs would be a guy to go get like, a guy like this in the fourth round to pair with him.
- [39:16]
A
That's a. I like the Chiefs because if we call. We always call Ken Walker a home run hitter. And I think Jonah Coleman's like, like, he's like a singles guy ironically.
- [39:23]
C
And if he's trusted to, you know, protect like a rookie that you can actually trust protecting Mahomes like that.
- [39:28]
A
The other ones did we. We called him like the thinking man. Scatter Boo, right? I think for Jonah Coleman.
- [39:33]
B
Yeah.
- [39:33]
A
The Titans. The Titans, the fourth. They have a very high pick in the fourth round. Brian Dable just drafted Cam Scatter Boo and the Titans is a fourth rounder. I mean, Tajie Spears and Tony Pollard are free agents after the season. Titans if they don't take Jeremiah Love in the first round. I think Jonah Coleman makes a lot of sense for Tennessee.
- [39:47]
C
Do you think D Ball saw our clip on Instagram?
- [39:51]
B
Maybe. You never know. Craig.
- [39:55]
C
I would love to know who's the most important person in the NFL who has seen one of our dumb Instagram clips. I would love to know that.
- [40:03]
B
And then made a decision.
- [40:04]
C
If you work at Instagram and can somehow tell us that information, let us know.
- [40:08]
B
You guys might be on to something.
- [40:09]
C
I don't know if Roger Goodell has seen us doing Coachella Band or Pokemon.
- [40:14]
A
Roger. Good old scrolling. He's like, huh, There's a candy hall of Fame. That's crazy.
- [40:17]
C
Interesting. Yeah. How did the chicken choke On a colonel.
- [40:22]
A
How did it eat?
- [40:24]
B
Didn't have a head.
- [40:25]
C
So the next guy here in this, this tier, so basically Jeremiah Love was. Is in a tier of his own. The next three guys we have tier two is Jadarian Price, also had another name, Jonah Coleman, who we just talked about. And the final guy in this tier before it kind of drops off again is Mike Washington Jr. Out of Arkansas. DK. Tell me a bit about this man.
- [40:44]
B
Explosive. Explosive. Speed is the deal. He is a home run hitter. He's one of these guys where you're on toss plays, outside zone, things that get him out, out in space, and then he hit, he hits, you know, he sticks his foot in the ground, gets downhill and then hits a home run. He's. He's running away from dudes. He ran a 4, 3 at the combine, so he's really exciting. He's. He's the polar opposite of Coleman stylistically, because he's not, I don't think, a very good tackle breaker. There's a lot of plays on tape where he just gets tackled by his ankle. It's kind of frustrating because he's like this close to hitting a big play and then he just gets brought down for whatever reason. But he can hit those home runs. He's very, very explosive as a athlete. 434, like I said. And he jumped really high too, so he's got that, you know, twitch to him, but I don't think he's a complete prospect. He's more of a one trick pony where he's just got a lot of speed and he's going to create big plays for you. And then the other stuff, I think he's a work in progress. He's terrible in pass pro, so I don't know, he's one of those, like, I'll get in the way, but that's about all I'm gonna do.
- [41:43]
C
Sure. So I'll throw my body at it. Yeah.
- [41:46]
B
Yeah. Pretty much the guy that came to mind as a low incomplete. We see a lot of fast guys. People get excited about these fast running backs as you're going into the NFL. Speed score. Mike Washington, by the way, the speed score is basically speed divided by weight. I don't know exactly what goes into it. That's.
- [42:02]
A
But it's not calm. It's that more or less. It's physics. It's like it's harder to move 220 pounds than 180.
- [42:07]
C
Correct.
- [42:08]
B
He has the top score of all. Bill Barnwell. Yes. And so Mike Washington. It gives you an Idea. I think he's listed at 230 pounds or something like that. Ran at 4:3. So he has the number one speed score, I think of any running back in combine data. But like I said, there's kind of some limitations there. He's a little stiff. Tackle breaking isn't quite there. His work in, in the passing game is still a question mark, I think. And so yeah, he is the guy that kind of came to my mind as a low end comp. A guy that everyone gets excited about and then you forget about him after a year is Isaac Carrendo, who ended up with the 49ers.
- [42:42]
C
I was gonna say this archetype does feel very Shanahanian. Like, like one, one cut runner zone scheme, like sees the gap, can hit it and get up field.
- [42:51]
A
You're like, wow, this guy's huge. This guy's fast. And then he doesn't play.
- [42:55]
B
This is, it's such an interesting thing too because some it is scheme will matter and finding the right blocking scheme for these guys definitely matters. And, and a coach that believes in all this stuff. There's a lot of variables that go into running backs, but speed is not always the most important thing. Sometimes you just have to be elusive. You have to be able to set up your blocks. See, see one block ahead and then scoot away from it. Some guys like the ankle thing is the ankle tackle thing that annoys me. Some guys have really good feet where they get their feet up. You know, you see guys kind of start to high step a little bit to avoid those and just have a natural feel for when to do that and how to avoid those tackles is a real thing. So yeah, I mean, and the other knock against him, and not that I don't like him, but I've seen people talking about him as a second rounder and I think they're enamored with the speed. He's a fifth year senior who really didn't do a whole lot until this last year with Arkansas. So schools too. Three, three seasons at Buffalo, one at New Mexico State and then one at Arkansas.
- [43:53]
A
And this is from.
- [43:54]
B
How often does that kind of profile end up being a star in the NFL? Not that often, but it's not impossible. I mean, there's certainly some really impressive parts about him. The high end comp I had in mind is a. Is a guy like demarco Murray. Yeah, upright, upright, kind of stiff runner, but explosive and gets downhill in an instant. He kind of took a minute to get going, but he was awesome for a couple years.
- [44:15]
A
Yeah, I think, yeah, DeMarco Murray had a level of power that I think we kind of wish Mike Washington had. I think the problem is I love smaller players that play big. D' Angelo Pons for Indiana. The Indiana, the protein in a. And we refuse to talk about Fernando Mendoza playing catch. But D' Angelo Pond's rated 4. 3. And I love guys who are small, play big. Mike Washington doesn't really break as many tack. You think for a guy who's so big, he's six'12, 20, he's not breaking a lot of tackles like DeMarco Murray. But I. I think the size wise and the speed, you're right. TK the guy. It's funny you mentioned Isaac Rando, the guy that I thought the highest end of. Like, if Mike Washington is like the steel of this draft, the best version of his career, I'm like, he reminds me a lot of Raheem Mostert on the Niners before the leg injury, which he had a multiple. But, like, do you remember when Raheem Oster had four touchdowns and 200 yards against the packers in, like, the NFC championship game? Like, that is.
- [44:59]
B
That's a good one.
- [44:59]
A
Yeah, that's the. Like, he's like a bigger Raheem Moster. Mike Washington is. And I could see him having the size to eventually be a goal lineback, but he doesn't know how to play in that kind of zone scheme right now for Shanahan or any of the Shanahan diaspora. But Raheem Oster didn't either. Like, those guys have journeys and you have to learn how to do it. So I could see Mike Washington having that kind of like, career later, but I think it might be a minute. But the talent is crazy. But I agree with dk. He didn't really own it back. He didn't really control of backfield at any of the three schools he went to, which is kind of a red flag.
- [45:29]
C
You see him DK as like an early day three, late day two. Where do you see him?
- [45:33]
B
Probably late day two. If. If any team took him in the third round, I'm fine with that. I think that's great. I just get a little bit nervous when you're talking about second round. I. I guess that's splitting hairs a little bit, but I don't see him quite on that level. I think the speed is real, though, and you see it on the field. He has breakaway speed.
- [45:51]
C
Yeah.
- [45:52]
B
And it's. It's. It's something that every team wants, but I just think there's you know, you're gonna have to deal with some of the other things that doesn't do quite as well if you take him there.
- [46:01]
A
I could see him succeeding a lot on his next team.
- [46:05]
C
The second team. The second.
- [46:06]
A
Second team. Like the second contract guy. Like we all given up on him and then he goes somewhere else and he's incredible.
- [46:12]
C
So let's go to tier three, then. So these are guys even a little bit of a step below, I'm assuming, dk, you're going to say these are all day three guys. We'll start with Emmett Johnson out of Nebraska. Yeah, T.K. why? Why? I mean, if. If I'm. If I'm watching the draft on day three. First of all, kudos to me. Kudos to anyone out there.
- [46:32]
B
Well done, sir.
- [46:33]
C
Spending their weekend watching fifth rounders go
- [46:35]
A
so like a Craig who hasn't had a losing record in a long time.
- [46:39]
C
Whatever. Day three, you gotta watch day three. It's. They're still gonna pick the players. You know what I mean?
- [46:46]
A
It's all you got.
- [46:47]
B
You can't check in later after all.
- [46:49]
C
You can still read about him the next day.
- [46:51]
A
Giants taking Cam Scatter Boo was one of the best moments of the Giants season.
- [46:56]
C
Well, I'm happy for you. Okay. Emmett Johnson, Nebraska dk If it's. Is there any chance that whoever, whatever, fan base drafts this guy? Why should they be excited like Hivetz was when they took Cam Scatterboo?
- [47:07]
B
I think he is an exciting player, actually. He could go late day two. He could go in the third round. I wouldn't be surprised to see that. I think he is really good in the passing game, which is going to be one of his calling cards in the pros. I don't. He's not particularly powerful as a runner and he doesn't make a ton of guys miss in terms of broken tackles. But he is really shifty and he can create big plays in the passing game. He had a ton of production in the passing game. Good hands. The guy that I keep thinking of with him is Kenneth Gainwell because it wouldn't be surprising if in a couple years he's better than very.
- [47:38]
C
I'm like doing the Leo bite your knuckle. I'm like, I know.
- [47:40]
B
Seriously. And. But it took a while for Gainwell to turn into what you now know him as. I remember when he was coming out, though, people were very excited about him. He was so awesome in the passing game. You know, elusive, makes guys miss in a phone booth. And that's exactly what I see With Emma Johnson. So he's the type of guy who he'll get the ball. You'll have a guy that has him dead to right, squares him up and he just runs around him. He's jukes around him. He's so quick and so elusive in that way. But he doesn't have the. I don't think he has quite explosive breakaway speed to like a true high end speed. He's more of a shifty quick guy than a really fast guy, which is probably honestly fine in the NFL for most players. What are you gonna say? Hi Bits?
- [48:22]
A
Well, he could be like Kenneth Gainwell or I don't. It's hard to compare anyone to James White where they're really, really, really good at one skill. But again, Johnson does have really, really, really good receiving ability. His downfield, I think he's like, he could be a great third down back kind of guy, but I think he's probably a better runner than those guys inside. I think he's better at like, what if those guys were actually better runners between the tackles? Can I list you. Can I give you a random list of things I really like about Emmett Johnson?
- [48:45]
B
Yeah.
- [48:46]
A
First, where's number 21? That's the best number for running backs.
- [48:49]
B
Sure.
- [48:50]
C
I agree with that.
- [48:52]
B
Okay.
- [48:52]
A
I 21. I will always like a running back that wears number 21. It means a lot to me.
- [48:57]
B
A classic Running back lt right.
- [48:59]
A
Dating Thomason Tiki Barber did it. Number two.
- [49:03]
C
It looks the fastest 21. When the jersey 21 is running. I'm like, that guy's got moves. He's fast.
- [49:11]
A
The receivers who were number one are great running backs who do it. They don't work out, if I'm being honest. No. Like Travis the four artists formerly known as Travis Etienne. You know, I will say the other thing about Emma Johnson I love and I, I realized doing draft work this year what my favorite running back touchdown celebration is.
- [49:26]
C
Okay.
- [49:27]
A
No matter how far a defender is from Emmett Johnson, when he crosses the goal line, he tucks the ball with two hands. I love it.
- [49:34]
B
Oh, that's coach. Coach's dream right there.
- [49:38]
A
I had no idea how much I loved it till I saw it. It doesn't matter how far.
- [49:40]
C
That's him. Like a whole point in my book.
- [49:43]
A
Ball security. He's a good. Yeah. JG Zachary mentioned he's like it's 1.13 adjusted receiving yards per team pass attempt, blah blah, blah. The guy can catch like he's downfield. He's making actual receiver ability. But I. The other one Was, I saw this was in high school. So Emmett Johnson, his senior of high school. I first heard this from Connor, Connor Rogers, who does great stuff with Trevor Sigma on their draft stock exchange pod. But then I looked it up because I couldn't believe it. So senior year, Emmett Johnson had 2500 rushing yards and 42 touchdowns, which is like a Derek Henry has stat line. But he also had 85 tackles his senior year of high school. Like he played like he had 85 tackles and he had 42 touchdowns.
- [50:22]
B
Safety or corner, I didn't even.
- [50:24]
A
I meant to watch it. I didn't and I, I didn't pull up the tape, but I just kind of was blown away.
- [50:28]
C
I like this guy. Seems like this guy's a nice little pick here in the middle rounds.
- [50:32]
B
I think so too. He's, he's a guy. If you get him in the third or fourth round, I'm pretty happy about that too.
- [50:37]
C
So what type of team would he make the most sense on? Like a team that already has an early down guy. He could kind of be your third down special team.
- [50:44]
B
Yeah.
- [50:45]
A
Ironically, I think the Vikings, he's from Minnesota and I. But I think, I think Emma Johnson, the Vikings are good because Aaron Jones is and Jordan Mason are free agents at the end of the season. And then they have like Xavier Scott, but even he's like a restricted tender guy after this year. Like the Vikings. Is Aaron Jones really going to be the Vikings in 2027? Like Emma Johnson, I'm surprised he's on
- [51:03]
C
the Vikings this year.
- [51:04]
A
I know and I think a lot of these guys, I think the realistic way to look at them is even if they're good, it takes a year. Like you do have to kind of do a red shirt year. Sometimes you're like a Bucky Irving. Sometimes you're like a Kyle Menon guy. Where as a, like you can, as a rookie you step in. But a lot of times when these guys make an impact, you kind of redshirt one season like Blake Corum did and then you step in. I think Emmett Johnson, I could see replacing Aaron Jones in the Vikings in 2027. That would make a lot of sense to me.
- [51:27]
C
All right, let's close out then. Two guys, Penn State guys, we have Caitron Allen and Nicholas Singleton. Wasn't Nick Singleton supposed to be a bigger deal or am I crazy?
- [51:35]
B
Yeah, no, you're right. He was a five star prospect. One of the top prospects in the country.
- [51:39]
A
The number one running back recruit in America in 2022. He's the Zachariah Branch.
- [51:42]
B
Yeah, right. And he was good early too. He was really good early on. I think the big thing with him and the worry with him and the reason he's probably going to be a late day two, early day three or maybe even a little bit later than that type pick is he's fallen off, he's gotten worse as he's gone along, unfortunately. And so there's just question marks like why didn't he continue to develop, why didn't he build on what he did early on in his career? Because his stats early in his career were huge. But I don't know, he's, he's one of those guys where you can see the explosiveness, you can see the burst, you can see the, the top end speed to run away from people, but his tempo on runs, his vision on runs and just his overall feel I think is just a little off. There's just something missing there. And he's, he's a good receiver. So he's, he's one of those guys where again, as long as you're realistic about where you're going to take him, I'd be pretty excited if my team picked him because he I do think has those, the speed and agility and pass catching chops that you're looking for in a mid round pick. But if you take him earlier than that, I think you're asking yourself a lot of questions like why did he fall off as he went along in his career?
- [52:51]
A
So watching Nick Singleton run and again he was crazy hype. Like number one running back recruit in America and two hours away went to Penn State and I'm watching Nick Singleton at Penn State, I was reminded that you guys don't play video games really anymore. But in college football, the new video game, the way Madden and college football, especially the new college football video game works is there's a sprint button. Like when we were kids, you actually just moved the joystick and you went full speed. But now there's a sprint button. And the way the video game works is if you get a handoff and you're the running back, you have to wait to get to the hole with the joystick. Like you have to move the joystick there. Then you hit the sprint button and you go. If you get the ball and you instantly hit the sprint button, the game basically won't let you get a good play. Like you really won't have a big explosive play if you hit the sprint button immediately. That's all Nick Singleton does.
- [53:39]
B
I think I was on Mina's pot Yesterday and Nate Tice said the exact same thing. I think he used the exact same example. It's just like hitting that.
- [53:46]
C
The.
- [53:47]
B
The power button or whatever. Um, when I'm watching him and. And no, I'm watching the all 22, there's no sound. There's no, like, announcer. There's no crowd. I just kept thinking he runs to the tempo and beat of final countdown. Like. Like the triplets. Like, he. The way he's running. I don't know why, but it's just.
- [54:07]
A
He's just like.
- [54:08]
B
He just is a hoss. He just goes. Yeah, he like gallops and never.
- [54:14]
A
There's no trot, though. There's no.
- [54:16]
B
There's no.
- [54:16]
A
Like, I'm setting it up. There's no rhythm. There's no tempo. It's like It's. It's not zero to 60. It's zero or 60. Think.
- [54:22]
B
Yeah. Like, think about Saquon, the way he runs where he presses the line, finds.
- [54:26]
C
He's like a tone deaf runner.
- [54:28]
A
Yes.
- [54:29]
B
Right.
- [54:29]
A
It's me singing. Except that. But the. But it's like if I.
- [54:33]
B
Opposite of jazz.
- [54:35]
A
Yeah, I guess if I was really good at one note. Yeah.
- [54:38]
B
But anyway, he. But I do think there. There's something there. Obviously he has immense physical talent and. But you just have to be kind of realistic about what that could be in the next level.
- [54:48]
C
And so the other guy, Caitron Allen, is it Catron or Caitron?
- [54:53]
A
It's actually Fat man, believe it or not. He literally goes by Fat Man.
- [54:56]
C
He goes by Fat Man.
- [54:57]
A
His mom called him Fat man when he was a kid and he loves it. And his Twitter handle, I think, is Fat Man. He goes by Fat Man. He had people, all his friends call him Fat Man.
- [55:04]
C
All right, well, Fat man ate Nick Singleton's job the second half of their stint in Penn State.
- [55:10]
B
Right, because your milkshake.
- [55:11]
C
Yeah, literally. Because they were. They basically were both at Penn State for four years. And at the first two years, Singleton was a starter, and then the second two years, basically Allen started to take over. Right, so tell me about Allen also,
- [55:24]
A
just for context, because it's crazy. Singleton has the most touchdowns in the history of Penn State, but Catron Allen has the most yards in the history of rushing yards in the history of Penn State.
- [55:32]
C
But like, that's. Is that a good thing or a bad thing? Like, that just means you were there for four years.
- [55:37]
A
I don't know.
- [55:38]
C
Yeah, it's like Saquon doesn't have it. Why? Because he left to go to the NFL.
- [55:42]
A
But isn't it a bad sign that Nicholas Singleton was the number one running back recruit in America and then his teammates the all time leading rusher at Penn State? Like that's bad.
- [55:49]
B
I would say.
- [55:49]
C
Yes.
- [55:52]
B
Hold on. I'm hearing. Yeah, yes, yes.
- [55:54]
C
I'll have to talk to my sources, but I believe that that is bad. Yes.
- [55:57]
A
Crazy. Honestly, it's a crazy thing. It.
- [56:00]
B
I would say if you're defending both of these guys, stylistically, they're very different. Catron Allen is very. He's the David Montgomery to the Jameer Gibbs. If, if, if Singleton is the explosive pass catching guy, Allen is more of a segment. He, he tempos his runs, he's patient. He waits for his blocks to set up. He jukes laterally. Singleton is like, I'm getting downhill immediately. You know what I mean? And so Allen is much more, I think, elusive in the short area and able to set his blocks up and able to make guys at the second level miss. He just has a natural feel for running, but he's. I sort of got. It looks like he's running with one of those parachute things that you, you drag when you're training. Because he gets caught from behind more than any running back I've ever seen. I swear to God.
- [56:45]
C
It's crazy.
- [56:47]
B
I'm exaggerating, but he does. He. He just doesn't have the runaway speed and that's keeping his.
- [56:52]
C
He ran a 4, 6, 4, 6, 5, 4.
- [56:55]
B
Just not very.
- [56:56]
C
That is quite slow, actually. Right.
- [56:57]
A
But it's funny you say David Montgomery. I had the same thing. David Montgomery ran like a 4, 6, 5.
- [57:01]
B
Yeah.
- [57:02]
A
And I think that's the thing with K. Tron Allen where I love Montgomery. I think they have a lot of similarities. Montgomery's probably was a better in between the tackles run. He was probably better coming out of college than Kitchen Allen was. But I think they have a lot in common. I like Kitchen Allen a lot.
- [57:14]
B
I think too. Yeah.
- [57:16]
A
The high end for Caitron Allen as a comp, like the highest end version of him is David Montgomery. And the Lions where you're like, oh my God, this is a, a leader. This is like the guy. This is like a tone setter for your team where he's not the most physically gifted guy, but he's never giving up yards easy. He never goes down easy. He is like again, making guys miss in the hole. Even if he doesn't have the top and speed. I think the more realistic one is Caitron Allen will probably end up more like David Montgomery was on the Bears where he was like a. He played but he wasn't like as special as you know, obviously the David Montgomery tenure on the Lions completely changed the way thought of him.
- [57:48]
B
Yeah.
- [57:49]
A
But I think that is, I. To take the video game analogy, I. It makes me feel better that Nate had the same thought. I think Nicholas Singleton learned to play football on the rookie mode in high school and it was so easy. He never learned to play the game. And then Catrion Allen learned on hard mode. So now it's like the level goes up and he actually knows how to play even if he's not as talented. And Singleton's kind of like, that's weird. I can't just run by everyone before. What do I do now?
- [58:13]
C
Who's going to get drafted first? Dk, if you had to bet.
- [58:18]
B
That's a really good question because I, my instinct would say Singleton because the NFL likes speed and the NFL is still enamored with, tantalized with, with the stars.
- [58:29]
A
He's the thirst trap. I can fix him.
- [58:31]
B
You. A lot of teams still look at how many stars you had as a recruit coming in and that I think right or wrong kind of affects the evaluation a little bit.
- [58:39]
C
I'm trying to think of a comp for him of a guy who like theoretically has it all on paper, but when you watch it, it's just not there. But you kept betting on him. I'm trying to think of a running back comp like that.
- [58:48]
A
It's funny because in theory you could argue that Singleton should go first because it is the team's job to coach him. And it's as Mike Thomas would say, like their job is to coach, draft and develop players and they should teach them to play. The interesting thing DK is we should go back and look how many guys do get drafted for to how many high level recruits get drafted who haven't actually done that. Not that he didn't do well in college. He's the most touchdowns in Penn State history. But I'm curious how many players like this pan out.
- [59:16]
B
I think a lot of catering Allen, you mean?
- [59:18]
A
No, I'm talking like the teams draft the Nicholas Singleton, the number one recruit at the position. Anything higher and they're like hey, coaching staff you figured out. But then they get there and the coaching staff are like, this guy doesn't know to play. We don't have time to teach him. But then the coaches don't get to always pick the players. They're like we want the catering Allen. And so they're like, oh, we'll draft and develop this guy. But then short term they're like, we don't have time to develop anyone. We got to play people.
- [59:40]
B
Yeah, I, I think I was just trying to think of Craig was trying to figure out an example of like a big time recruit. Remember the guy Bryce Brown? I want to say he was a big Eagles.
- [59:53]
C
Oh yeah.
- [59:54]
B
He was like the number one recruit. Anyway, that's where my brain was going. But I think the other thing that I think is an interesting comp and these are not. This is not a one to one com because I think these guys are going to go quite a bit later than last year where we had Quinchon Judkins and Trayvon Henderson, two teammates, two very different styles coming out of Ohio State. And Judkins went before. Before what's his face. Yeah, Trayvon. And. And that was I think kind of a surprise to some people because in some similar ways I don't think Judkins had sort of the breakaway runaway speed that. And that speed is what is so sexy and attractive I think about like some of these guys. But at the end of the day it just depends on what team wants. And, and I think Allen is much more of a. His, his game I think definitely translates to the NFL even though he doesn't have the breakaway speed. It's like, it's like I've said with Jonah Coleman, he's going to get you singles, he's not going to probably get you many home runs or any. But that's. It just depends on what you need in your offense.
- [60:56]
C
Yeah, his, his last name should be Singleton then. You know what I mean?
- [60:59]
B
That's good one, Craig. Wow.
- [61:02]
A
Weird. It's a good point.
- [61:04]
C
Okay, well, this was enlightening. I thank you. I feel prepped now on the nf, on the, on the running back position. And my favorites are outside of Jeremiah Love. I like Emmett Johnson, Jonah Coleman.
- [61:18]
B
I think that's fair.
- [61:20]
A
They know.
- [61:21]
B
Talking, talking. I'm selling myself more on catering Allen too.
- [61:26]
A
Dk isn't this draft a lot of like they're big guys more than they are small guys. Like it's not like really talented, but small. It's a lot of big guys and some are not great athletes, but they know how to play running back for lack of a better term. Either know how to run with feel or catch or whatever, but they're not great athletes or big great athletes that aren't like great at the whole running back thing.
- [61:47]
B
Right.
- [61:47]
A
And it's kind of like those.
- [61:48]
B
Yeah, that's particular in particular in this class. That's every class, by the way, because if you have both, you're going in the first round.
- [61:55]
A
Yeah, Jeremy Loves can do it all, which is just right. Get me one of them big ones
- [61:59]
D
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- [63:30]
A
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- [64:38]
C
Speaking of big guys, should we talk about this, this coaches photo?
- [64:43]
B
I would love to the the annual coaches.
- [64:46]
A
How'd you feel about your guy Mike McCarthy in this photo? Craig?
- [64:49]
C
Yeah, look, here's what I don't love about that situation. The photographer, whoever organized this, I don't love them throwing him next to Canales who looks like he cold plunges every day at 5am not fair.
- [65:01]
B
It did him dirty.
- [65:03]
A
This is like a model.
- [65:04]
C
And yes, literally looks like a model. And then also Liam Cohen is on the other side of McCarthy who's got like glasses and a tucked in T shirt and looks cool. And McCarthy looks like he just left a rodeo. But you know, what is that?
- [65:18]
B
What's the shirt here? What's the shirt? Why is he wearing that shirt?
- [65:22]
C
He's also missing a button on that shirt.
- [65:25]
A
So.
- [65:25]
C
And not the one you think.
- [65:26]
B
Yeah, the second one down. No, the third one down.
- [65:30]
C
Third one down didn't quite make it home. But also. Yeah, so this is all 32 coaches. Except it's not because Todd Monk in the new head coaches Browns is not in this photo because it was reported that he was literally getting a haircut for this photo and missed. Missed it because he was getting a haircut.
- [65:49]
B
Oh, you can't, you can't write something like that.
- [65:54]
C
Most Brown of all time, he didn't even make it in the photo.
- [65:58]
A
Brown's coach was getting a haircut for the photo that he missed during the photo.
- [66:02]
C
I think this first time head coach in NFL history missed the photo because
- [66:06]
A
that's the part that. And the worst part is this report. So Mary kay Cabot@cleveland.com had that. They actually had the time. Right. Which is embarrassing. Like I can't believe they gave all this information away. I would have had this. I would have thrown my body.
- [66:17]
B
He had something else.
- [66:18]
A
So yeah, it's like I have a family situation. They get anything and so. But I don't think they could lie because I think he ended up telling everyone when he realized. So here's what happened. They took the. The reason he missed it is they took the photo early and they took the photo early is because there was a coach meeting for all 32 head coaches and they were supposed to do it at the end of the meeting. Todd Monkin skipped the meeting to get the haircut and then the meeting ended early. So on top of it he skipped the coach meeting to get a haircut and then shows up and it's like, when's the picture? They're like, we took it 20 minutes ago. The meeting got out early.
- [66:49]
B
What's a coach meeting for?
- [66:51]
A
Talk about stuff.
- [66:52]
B
Coaching stuff.
- [66:53]
C
I love that. That like the world of fashion and fashion trends doesn't travel to the NFL.
- [66:58]
B
No, they're too busy.
- [67:01]
A
All culture ends the moment you come to coach.
- [67:03]
C
There's nothing really tight polos and really tight khakis.
- [67:08]
A
Not well, they're. It's better than they used to be.
- [67:10]
C
I will.
- [67:10]
A
But there's no culture. I will say though, were you guys surprised if you had to pick a coach? There's 10 first time coaches or 10 coaches that or 10 new ones hired. I guess they're all new coaches.
- [67:19]
C
Yeah.
- [67:21]
A
I would never have guessed this would be an older coach. Like to get a haircut. Like the idea that Todd Monkett is like 60 something and he's so worried about his haircut. That threw me outside. Yeah, older like the idea that older. Like I expect to like if you told me Clint Kubiak that like it leaked out later. That was the reason because like Dave
- [67:38]
C
Canalis is like getting a fade right before. You know. Sure.
- [67:40]
A
Matt LaFleur is like my little. My older brother's a guy and I'm the youngest brother person in this photo. I got to look good. I'm like the. Todd Monkin's like the second oldest person here. Why the does he give a how he looks?
- [67:51]
C
What is this photo for? Where does it go? Popularity but like where does it go officially?
- [67:57]
A
I. I don't.
- [67:58]
B
I actually on the Internet, Craig.
- [68:00]
C
Well, what's confusing to me is why are we looking at the non professional photo? Like this is clearly an iPhone.
- [68:07]
B
You can go to go to Schefter has the. The professional one, I believe.
- [68:11]
C
Well, the one that went like quote unquote viral that everyone talking about is just like clearly somebody who just took it on their iPhone. But this isn't the professionally taken photo.
- [68:18]
B
Right.
- [68:18]
A
Well where's that one?
- [68:20]
B
No Schefter post shifter posted it. Craig. It's a little more professional because the
- [68:25]
C
one we're looking at that people are commenting on is from an angle like Sirianni got.
- [68:29]
B
Mary Kabo.
- [68:30]
C
Sirianni got screwed by the angle because he looks probably 40 pounds heavier than he actually is.
- [68:34]
B
I don't know, Craig. I'm looking at the. The official one from Schefter. He's got the broadest shoulders. I did not know he had that in him.
- [68:41]
A
Yeah, he was good in that.
- [68:42]
B
I. I think he was so ripped.
- [68:45]
A
The other one person who missed it is Sean McVeigh. Which. Do we know why McVeigh missed the photo?
- [68:48]
C
Oh, McVeigh's not there.
- [68:50]
B
Probably just didn't go, oh, hi, Fitz.
- [68:52]
C
I'm not looking at this one. The one that, like, everyone was commenting on is a different photo. Was the one slightly from the right?
- [68:58]
B
Yeah. Yeah. Did you guys have any idea that Joe Brady was an absolute unit?
- [69:03]
A
He's so big.
- [69:04]
B
I did not realize. He looks like he's. Someone did, like one of those Photoshop things where they just make him like 1.5x.
- [69:11]
C
He looks like. Yeah, he looks like it.
- [69:14]
B
Like, he does look like Funny the elf.
- [69:16]
C
His pants look too small. Like he's busting out of them.
- [69:19]
B
Why is he so much bigger than everyone? I didn't realize he was that big.
- [69:22]
C
He's.
- [69:23]
B
I saw him at the combine. He didn't look that big.
- [69:25]
A
He's got to go back to the North Pole.
- [69:27]
B
What the. Who else stands out to you? Because to me, it was Sirianni. Joe Brady being a huge guy, and then Vrabel just frame mogging. Everyone I. I have to credit.
- [69:39]
A
So Schefter actually put in his post, he said, cc Big cat. Because big cat always does big cat's review.
- [69:45]
C
Really funny.
- [69:46]
B
Yeah.
- [69:46]
A
I have to give Big Cat credit because he said that Jeff Halfley, the coach of the Miami Dolphins, looks like a 1950s mental patient about to be lobotomized. I can never look at this man the same way ever again.
- [70:01]
B
I can honestly see it.
- [70:01]
A
There's something for an after moment for me.
- [70:03]
C
Yeah. He's got, like, real old school military haircut.
- [70:09]
A
I see him now in a gown. I'm like, he's plotting.
- [70:11]
B
He's plotting something.
- [70:12]
C
Yeah. Also, Jesus Christ. Why are they all looking into the sun? Like, who took this every year? Craig, why are they doing.
- [70:20]
B
They do.
- [70:20]
A
That's every year.
- [70:21]
B
They're, like, all squinting.
- [70:23]
A
Look at the sun.
- [70:24]
C
You could. You could have figured this out. You know, you don't have to have one guy staring at the sun.
- [70:28]
B
One guy has sunglasses on. Craig.
- [70:31]
C
Liam Cohen, this is Jim Harbaugh.
- [70:34]
B
Oh, no, no, I see. I didn't. I didn't notice Harbaugh. You're right. Wow. Harbaugh. Which one's the older one, Jim or John?
- [70:41]
C
John is older by, like two years, right?
- [70:43]
B
It looks like about 15 in this picture. I'm sorry.
- [70:48]
C
I like to know who are the. Who are the loafer guys? I always find that to be interesting. Who is like the Allbirds athleisure type
- [70:54]
A
and who John Shoes are.
- [70:55]
C
Just would not have guessed loafer for Vrabel.
- [70:58]
B
He's got, like, suede loafers.
- [70:59]
C
John John Harbaugh would not have guessed loafer. You know what I mean?
- [71:02]
A
Yeah.
- [71:03]
C
Surprising to me. Like, to me, Canalis would have guessed loafer can't see his feet to.
- [71:09]
B
To our everlasting regret, we can't see Shane Steichen.
- [71:12]
A
I see why he wears a hat all the time.
- [71:14]
C
Yeah. Dude, Joe Brady is huge.
- [71:16]
A
Joe Brady's. Yeah.
- [71:18]
C
He does look like Buddy the elf in the North Pole.
- [71:22]
A
So big. Why is he so big?
- [71:25]
B
Oh, my God. I had no idea he's that big.
- [71:29]
C
He's big.
- [71:30]
B
They're all wearing just, like, light blue. Every single one of them.
- [71:34]
C
Nobody. Everyone looks like they're going to play golf.
- [71:37]
A
We got to go to this thing next time.
- [71:39]
B
Except for. Except for Andy Reid, who's always wears a Hawaiian shirt.
- [71:43]
C
I love that.
- [71:43]
A
Yeah, I know. The other. The other thing I want to talk about from owners meeting, there's a few things. So cut one. Kyle Shannon is just absolutely pissed about the Australia game. Game.
- [71:50]
C
I would be, too.
- [71:51]
A
He went on. His explanation was great. He went on Mike Florio and Chris Sims at Pro Football Talk. Chris Sims and Kyle Shannon are, like, best friends. They actually have matching tattoos of each other's initials.
- [72:00]
B
Didn't they play college football together?
- [72:02]
A
Yeah, Texas. And they were. And so Shanahan goes in Chris, and he's pretty. It's about the loosest you'll see. Shannon, because it's like, literally his best friend. And he basically was like, don't get. They asked about the Australia game because the Niners Rams will be the. The second. No. The kickoff game or. No, it's Wednesday night.
- [72:17]
C
The second game.
- [72:18]
B
Second game.
- [72:19]
C
The Seahawks are going to play because the. The Australia game will be Thursday.
- [72:23]
A
So the. Shanahan is like. Basically is like, don't get me started. And then they're like, start. And he's like, okay, this is. Sean McVeigh did this. The Rams requested the. The Rams were like, we'll play in Australia. The NFL's like, great. We've Been begging for someone to go halfway around the world. It's super. And they're like, we'll do whatever you want for the Rams to go, what do you want? Like, we want. We'll play the Niners. And the Rams wanted the Niners because LA probably has more Niners fans than Rams fan. And when the Niners fans come, the Niners fans take over the whole LA stadium. And the Rams have to go silent count in their Machiavellian, like the Chargers. And so the. The Rams are like, we can't have a divisional rival making us go silent count in home to lose it like one of my best friends. So the Rams are going halfway around the world to Australia to avoid this, which is what Drake did during Kendrick Lamar's halftime show.
- [73:10]
B
Right.
- [73:11]
C
So really smart by McVeigh also. But why the hell does McVay have say over who they.
- [73:18]
A
The Stan Cronk. I'm sure the owner. This is where owners get involved. They're like, yeah, I'll go to Australia. I think the Rams. I don't think McVeigh did. I think McVeigh is, like, on board. I think it's a decision. They're all like, McVeigh just picked it. I think McVeigh flagged that. Like, that's who we want to play and everything. But the Rams probably wanted to do it. I mean, that game should not be home.
- [73:34]
C
I get it. Do teams get. I'm assuming they get more money for doing this.
- [73:39]
A
Okay, so the answer is a little weird, but I guess the Monroe Doctrine's back. So it's actually like spheres of influence. Like that little cartoon of like, the. Everyone carving up the world. The NFL gets, they kind of drafted countries that they get marketing rights in. So the. The. The. In America, the Cowboys like to have. Have this giant radius that they can market. So believe it or not, like, the Baltimore Ravens can't advertise, really, in Dallas. It's like, that's their severe. Like, they get domain over that area and they. All their areas, they just copied that over to countries in the world. So, like, the Chiefs are like, we get Germany. And they're like the Chiefs Taylor Swift. You're popular. There's a ton of Americans in Germany for military bases. So the Chiefs just have Germany. The Dolphins get Spain because they are like, heroism again. Yeah. They're like, we have a Spanish language broadcast infrastructure structure. Cowboys have Mexico. So they kind of just all drafted countries they want. And so I. I'll double check, but I think there's. Rams have Australia and But like, that is. The actual answer is they all have the. And they. That's where you get to build your international fan base.
- [74:39]
C
But then, like, do the Niners get a bonus for going and participating? Why? Why would they do that?
- [74:46]
A
I think they have to.
- [74:47]
B
I think it's.
- [74:48]
A
I don't know why the exact. I do not know the exact way the money changes hands. I'm. But it's a mix between ownership because the owners aren't. I don't know if it's a direct payment as much as the owners are like, do you want millions of fans in Australia for The San Francisco 49ers? Yeah, like that. That's the money. It's about growing a customer. Like in NFL buildings, fans are called customers. I hate to break it to everybody, but like, they call. You're called customers.
- [75:09]
C
It's like, it's like when the McDonald's CEO kept calling that burger the product.
- [75:13]
A
Yes. Yes.
- [75:15]
C
I'm really excited about this new product.
- [75:17]
A
And we're like, what if that's. What do you think they call?
- [75:21]
C
Yeah, this new product has crispy onions. Yum.
- [75:25]
A
Jesus. Oh, that guy's never eaten a burger before. That guy's probably following Brian Johnson, the McDonald's CEO. I don't know. But they're probably not getting enough. Also, while we're talking about me, they. Real quick, I, DK McVeigh, literally submitted to the competition committee a rule to clarify the two point conversion of Zach Charbonnet. And then as he's explaining, it was like, I think this is too complicated. It was like, never mind. And he's like. But I think most reasonable fans would agree that that play, it shouldn't have gone down that way. Way.
- [75:54]
C
I mean, that's right.
- [75:56]
B
Nope.
- [75:59]
A
It only confirmed my belief the Ram season hinged on that moment. The Rams were never mentally the same after that.
- [76:05]
C
Sounds like an awful lot of complaining.
- [76:08]
B
Probably awful lot of complaining and bitching and moaning from fellow NFC west coaches this week. So I agree. Love to see that.
- [76:17]
A
The other, other thing I want to ask you guys. So the NFL passed a rule or they're going to pass a rule at this point for. To correct calls on the field. I'm not going to go into the whole rule, but basically it's ref judge God, from where New York, wherever. Can just change a call. And I know we kind of been doing that, but they could change a flag that had been on the field. They couldn't throw a flag. Now they're like, you know what? The centralized league office in New York can throw a flag on the field. They can change anything in case. And they did it in case. There's replacement referees this year. And I wanted to ask you guys, am I crazy? Maybe this is why I'm not a billionaire. For many other reasons. But like, I think it's an insane risk with all the gambling stuff with these TV deals the NFL is negotiating, which they get to negotiate with Paramount now. And they're like they're going to risk replacement refs. But the NFL's posturing like they will. Do you think there's DK. Do you think the NFL would actually do replacement refs this year? Because they're acting like they will.
- [77:08]
B
No. This is a leverage play, right?
- [77:11]
A
I think so.
- [77:12]
B
I mean, they're not going to do. They're not going to do replacement refs, I hope.
- [77:15]
C
Were you guys surprised to learn that refs make 375k?
- [77:20]
A
They got a raise. Yes and no. It's because it's weird because they're part time, but a lot of them are lawyers.
- [77:25]
C
Yeah.
- [77:27]
A
I think they actually kind of needed. I think the rest now with the gambling are making. Not enough. That's actually a problem. I think it's like.
- [77:34]
C
Because they can be influenced.
- [77:36]
A
Yeah. I kind of think it's not the worst thing in the world that the rest make enough money that like. Yeah. I don't think the ref should be in financial trouble.
- [77:42]
C
They need to be kept in just like solitary. They need to be like a jury during the season.
- [77:47]
B
Sequester.
- [77:47]
C
Yeah. In a room for. I think the weirder part is people
- [77:51]
A
learning the refs are lawyers with jobs. Like Ed. Hockey has a whole law practice. Like all these guys have law practices and land clerk is a land clerk. And in Phoenix, Arizona or in Albuquerque, New Mexico, just whole jobs and they're like, all right, what do you do this weekend? Land.
- [78:05]
C
He's like, I'm clerking.
- [78:08]
A
Gonna tell Joe Burrow where to shove it. While we're doing rule changes. I wanted to revisit. We did in December. We did a power hour of rules we wanted changed. We kind of nailed it.
- [78:19]
B
Yep. Did we?
- [78:20]
A
I wanted to Revisit a few. DK, you said that holding should be 5 yards and then after a few, it's like NBA or basketball. The bonus to the 10 yard penalty range.
- [78:29]
B
Right.
- [78:30]
A
It's pretty great. But the other one. And I think this is an all time thing and I think we need to claim this and we need to make this possible and maybe over long enough time it'll happen. Craig said that Kickers should come out of the tunnel like closers in baseball.
- [78:42]
C
Yep.
- [78:43]
B
Oh, I love that.
- [78:44]
A
I think that's the best idea I've ever heard.
- [78:46]
C
Fire. Chris Boswell starts coming out. AC DC's playing. It's like, dan, Chris Boswell's coming out. The lights are going, flickering on and off. That would be amazing. How cool would that be?
- [78:58]
A
Did you.
- [78:59]
B
We could just call them closers now.
- [79:01]
A
Did they shut. Did you see Mason Miller, the Padres closer, coming out to corn?
- [79:05]
C
Sure did. I have. I have Edwin Diaz and Mason Miller on our. In our new fantasy baseball league. So I'm captain to the Southern California closer situation.
- [79:13]
A
Edwin Diaz coming in as the Dodgers closer. And the first one they had a live trumpet for. This is the most famous. I thought that was. That was. I was like, baseball is so back.
- [79:24]
C
I wanted to ask about that because I thought that was sick as well. Did the Mets. Was it. Not ever a lot. Was that the first time a live trumpeter was playing?
- [79:31]
A
I don't. I don't know. I'll be. Maybe they did it every time for the Mets. I don't know.
- [79:34]
C
I just heard, oh, yeah. Because I didn't know if that was new or not. Because I was like, wow. Crushing it. That's cool.
- [79:38]
A
But he's always had a trumpet. Edwin Diaz.
- [79:41]
C
I knew that. I just didn't know if it was ever a live person playing it, which was awesome.
- [79:44]
A
I thought, you want to Ron, the Phillies closer last year. I. I thought, yeah, they had.
- [79:50]
B
They had a real trumpet, according to the AI overview.
- [79:52]
C
Okay.
- [79:53]
B
The Gemini.
- [79:54]
A
The trumpet was incredible, but the Twins closer, Dur Duran, had this incredible thing. I forget his name, but it's like. They call it, like, fire. Spider basically is the theme. And they made this, like, visual that went around the whole stadium, then got traded. The Phillies and the Twins actually thought it was so sick, they just sent the Phillies the file. Even though they didn't make it, they're like, he can keep it.
- [80:12]
C
Wow. Yeah. Mason Miller, the Padres closer, came out to corn, and it was so fucking hardcore, dude.
- [80:19]
A
It's.
- [80:20]
B
Now we.
- [80:21]
A
We need to figure out what our walkout songs would be. It's important at time.
- [80:24]
B
Maybe. Maybe they don't do it every time. I'm actually saying this for Edwin Diaz. Well, I don't know.
- [80:29]
C
Whatever.
- [80:30]
B
I think Mets fans weigh in. We're new to baseball, right?
- [80:33]
C
I mean, like, I. I just. I wasn't watching a lot of Mets games.
- [80:38]
A
No. I will say, though, you weren't tuning in start. So I'm getting married this year. I'm getting married in May and I'm starting to time out.
- [80:44]
B
Like, congrats.
- [80:44]
A
Got to think what songs you want to get out, you know.
- [80:47]
C
You're thinking about doing corn?
- [80:49]
A
Yeah, maybe. Or live trumpeter.
- [80:51]
C
That'd be sweet.
- [80:52]
B
That'd be actually really cool. You should do that.
- [80:54]
A
Should think. I always thought about walk up songs, but closer songs are so much cooler.
- [80:58]
C
Yeah. Do you got. You don't. Obviously don't have to say it, but do you have a. A specific. Like Liz and I after we got married. I don't know if you guys noticed this when you were there. After we like, said, I do. You may now kiss the bride and you walk back down the aisle. We had a song playing that was Althea by the Grateful Dead guy on guitar ripping it. Do you have. Do you have a song planned for that moment?
- [81:21]
A
I think, I think we do. We've got. I'm not at liberty to say at the moment, but we are. We're on the stages. Yes. We're looking at those songs.
- [81:27]
C
That's awesome. I love that. I love the like personal music customization stuff.
- [81:31]
A
It is fun. If you have any wedding. Any wedding advice, just email me ringer fancy football gmail.com email high fitz directly. Little tips?
- [81:38]
C
Yeah, drink your face off. Just keep drinking.
- [81:42]
A
Get wasted.
- [81:42]
C
The more you show up drunk, show up drunk, just hammered drunk. Show up hungover. And then you need to drink to
- [81:51]
A
get in the front row. Lynyrd Skynyrd has got an angel band. This episode is brought to you by Taxact. Like an expert coach, Taxact offers step
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- [82:51]
C
Can we talk about you? You guys want to talk about abs at all?
- [82:55]
A
I would love to the challenges with umpires.
- [82:58]
C
Yeah. Are you guys. Are you guys. Probably. I guess we should start with.
- [83:04]
B
I'm heavily pro.
- [83:06]
A
I don't know how you could be against it after seeing what's happened this weekend. Like, it's incredible. Baseball is the best at changing.
- [83:12]
B
It's electric.
- [83:13]
A
I. The first of all, there are a couple things this week. The poor guy, I think, what is it? J.B. buckner or. Yeah, C.B. buckner got challenged eight times, a rough week in a Reds game. He lost six of the eight, including two in a row.
- [83:25]
B
He had to leave a game today because he got hit in the face with a foul wall.
- [83:28]
C
The ump.
- [83:29]
B
Yeah. Well, he's having a really hard week.
- [83:31]
A
That's tough for him. But the. But Randy Razorana on the seat also. The Mariners are playing the Yankees right now. Dk right.
- [83:37]
B
I know.
- [83:38]
A
Hope so. But Randy Raisin. Randy Rosen. Rayna had a. A full, A full count and he called a strike. Yeah. And he just challenges it, flips the bat and starts walking to first for a walk during the challenge before it's even over. And I'm like, it's actually great pageantry when a call is overturned.
- [83:54]
C
The amount of disrespect that you can give the umpire in like two seconds is pretty incredible.
- [84:00]
A
It's.
- [84:01]
C
I will say, I was listening to Chuck Kloseman on Bill. Who Chuck is by far my favorite Bill guest. I, I when I see a two hour Chuck Kloseman pod. Best part of my week. The man is the goat of analogies. I don't even want to hear it. It's Chuck. And then of 10ft of nobody else. And then number two, he is incredible. I love Chuck. Okay. And I'm reading his book Football, which is very good. Chuck Klosterman compared ABs or sorry, he compared baseball pre ABs to music from the 60s and 70s.
- [84:34]
B
Okay.
- [84:35]
C
And then of course, you're like, what? And then he's like, let me get into it. And then he describes it and it makes, it makes sense. And I feel the exact same way about abs as Chuck does, which is like, is it better? Yes. Is it more efficient? Yes. Is the game more accurate? Yes. Is it even fun in the moment? Yes. But do I like it? I don't know. Like, I don't. I don't know if I want it. I don't know if we need it. I don't know if baseball needs it. And his comparison was like, he was like, you know, I think about why music from the 60s and 70s hasn't seemed to have gone away. Like, it is still very relevant and people like it and people still go back to it. People our age, younger than us, still like music from the 60s and 70s. People still like the Beatles and the Beach Boys and Fleetwood Mac and all these. All these people.
- [85:16]
B
The old baseball is. Is yacht rock, is what you're saying. Well, but the reason he said the new baseball has.
- [85:22]
C
His reasoning was that sexy people as.
- [85:24]
B
As singers.
- [85:25]
C
Music from this. No, but that is. I do have a. That is a take I have.
- [85:28]
A
We need stop letting ugly. Stop letting hot people make music.
- [85:31]
C
We need to let the ugly people sing again. But it's that music from the 60s and 70s was imperfect because, like, they didn't have. They just didn't have the means that we do now. And now you can have, oh, the perfect guitar. If we can just add that in. We can add in anything. We want. Every vocal sounds exactly how you want it to sound. The 60s and 70s music was imperfect. And that's why you kind of like, it feels human and those imperfections become beloved. And I do think there is an element of baseball where I'm like, I kind of like that sometimes the ump just gets it wrong. And I think that's just a part of the game.
- [86:04]
B
Look, the. I think it's a good analogy. I understand where he's coming from, but I don't really buy into, like. I just don't buy the argument that baseball is better because that's what we did for forever.
- [86:17]
C
Look, I think there are plenty of ways that baseball's gotten way better. Like, I think the pitch clock is fantastic. Like, there are so many things that they've done that I'm like, the game is just better. And they're. They're like, understanding the modern world we live in, unlike the NBA. And I feel like baseball's evolving, which is great. But this specifically, I'm like, are we just 10 years away from just not having human umps and it's just robots? And I don't want.
- [86:40]
B
No, because we know. Here's the deal, Craig. Here's. Here's the distinction. I don't want robo umps. I don't want them to. I want them to just keep doing this forever because it's funny to humiliate the umps with their terrible calls like this. It's like, finally some justice. It just. It's. It's truly, like, so satisfying. I was watching the Marist game the other day, and the opposing team kept challenging pitches, and I was having a ball because they were I just thought it was fun. I. I don't know, I just thought it was hilarious that these umps are like so far off. There's like, I don't know, the players being able to challenge these, these umps who are just so like holier than thou on everything and like tossing people for arguing with pitches and everything. It's like to me, it's just. If it's cathartic to be able to challenge these horrific plays, I understand.
- [87:28]
C
But at what cost? You know, to me, I fucking love. It's a short term dopamine.
- [87:33]
B
At what cost, Craig? Baseball was dying. Baseball's back now. I don't think it's only because of
- [87:37]
C
that, but like baseball's not back. ABS has been around for a week. That's not why baseball. No, no.
- [87:41]
B
Baseball.
- [87:43]
C
I innovations are helping baseball come back. I totally agree with that. I don't know, maybe it's like, maybe it should only be in the playoffs or only in the ninth inning. I don't know what it is, but like I. There's a part of me that is like, this kind of sucks that we're not letting human beings participate in this part of the game anymore.
- [87:59]
B
And we are. They can challenge and then they can lose the challenge.
- [88:02]
C
No, I know, but I'm like, that's
- [88:04]
B
what I like about it.
- [88:06]
C
Look, I think it's when I watch it happen, I like it like it stops. The scroll. I'm like, that's funny.
- [88:11]
B
I don't understand what you're talking about. Then what I'm talking about. You said like fight. You're like, does it make the game better? Blah, blah, blah. But do I like it? No, but I just feel like.
- [88:21]
C
Well, I don't know, it's like, it's like eating candy is fun. But what I do, I want it all the time. No, like, I'm like, I don't. I feel like we are headed towards, towards robo umps and I hate that.
- [88:33]
A
What if one times you're eating candy, you were eating Snickers and then it was actually like, oh, that's a Reese's Cup. And you're like, yep, wrong happens sometimes.
- [88:40]
C
You're almost saying you don't actually care about the call being right or not. You just like being embarrassed.
- [88:46]
B
That's not total. I'm exaggerating a little bit. I like the idea that with these horrific calls and they're ringing guys up with bases load and all this shit.
- [88:55]
C
Yeah.
- [88:56]
B
Like that the players have some recourse. We see in football, you can, you can challenge, like whatever. And they can look at the replay and make sure it's the right call. I just want them to get it right. I like, I think it's fascinating.
- [89:07]
C
Well, then why wouldn't you be in support of just full time Robo?
- [89:11]
B
Because there still is a strategy involved with when you challenge and some of these guys are getting it wrong. You only have a certain amount of challenges. All that stuff. I, I just think it makes the game better. I think. And I thought, I thought it was actually very fascinating how accurate the catchers are at knowing exactly what's a strike and how. Because they. After I, I saw the stats that ESPN did the article about this, the catchers were by far the most accurate when they were challenging. The hitters were slightly. Or they were quite a bit less accurate. Hitters were less than 50 accurate when they challenge pitches. So I thought it was just fascinating kind of to watch that play out. Maybe it'll get boring as the year goes on. I'm sure it will be less.
- [89:49]
C
No, it's a, it's a boomer take of mine. Like I said in the moment, like when I'm watching, I'm like, this is good. This is entertaining. This makes baseball better. But there's like an old school thing that I feel like we're, we're losing. I'm like, oh, we got to have a robot help hating the umps.
- [90:03]
B
Hating the umps is what you're losing.
- [90:05]
C
I'm speaking to America right now. Hold on.
- [90:07]
A
Speaking to America.
- [90:08]
B
They throw you out of a game if you complain about balls and strikes.
- [90:11]
A
I don't like Joe West. I don't like Angel Hernandez. Those are amps in the mlb. Yeah, it's like, it's like, it's like me.
- [90:17]
B
It's, it's, There's a part of me that's like, fuck these authority figures.
- [90:21]
A
Yes.
- [90:22]
B
Getting their comeuppance.
- [90:23]
C
You know you're going to get what you want when they get rid of bumps entirely. And it's fucking robots. Well, and you'll be arguing against no one.
- [90:28]
A
But that's the.
- [90:30]
B
Isn't that what I'm watching baseball, Craig? I haven't been watching a lot of baseball the last 20 years, to be honest.
- [90:35]
A
Have you guys tried to call a help center for anything like.
- [90:38]
C
Yeah, it's fudgeing terrible. You can't just keep.
- [90:41]
A
There's no people there anymore. There's no one to help you anymore.
- [90:43]
B
And options now where you can push to be like, can I get a human being?
- [90:46]
C
It's ridiculous.
- [90:47]
B
Yeah.
- [90:47]
A
And so they have never been harder
- [90:49]
C
to call somebody on the phone.
- [90:50]
A
Fake keyboard sounds to make to convince boomers that there's a person there.
- [90:54]
C
Oh, God. I didn't know that.
- [90:55]
B
Jesus.
- [90:56]
A
The idea that a 60 year old man's going to get them all right, it's crazy for sure.
- [91:00]
C
I like it in a vacuum. It's more like what it represents and what it portends that worries me. I'm like, oh, I don't love mixing in.
- [91:07]
A
Like, why do you like Waymo?
- [91:09]
C
It's not the same thing.
- [91:10]
A
Like, why not?
- [91:12]
C
It's not the same. Why did you make me get into Waymo? Why is Waymo not the same as. As the history of baseball calling balls and strikes. First of all, I'm not like, I'm not Mr. Waymo here, okay? I'm not like, I'm not the CEO of Waymo. I think driving is just unsafe and people die. And I feel like if Waymo can reduce deaths on the road and drunk driving, all that stuff, I feel like that's a no brainer to me. That's very, very different from like the tradition of baseball. But I see your point.
- [91:40]
A
I see what you're saying too. I side with DK where it's like the idea. The flip side is what base, where baseball was, was. We actually can tell you that a ump got a call wrong instantly by like 8 inches. There was one this week that was dead center. About as bullseye as you could be. The guy called it a ball. And that's baseball. Immediately, that's baseball.
- [92:04]
B
The buc he called, he called the guy out at first base. He wasn't even looking at the play.
- [92:09]
C
That's baseball.
- [92:12]
B
There's a picture. I'll send it to you. He's looking at home plate.
- [92:15]
C
I don't know. It's tough. We need to move on because I'm just repeating myself.
- [92:19]
A
Well, we can move on by saying no. It's an interesting thing. I'm curious what people think. It's weird. But to your point, we're going to move on by doing the exact same topic, which is a chaser to this whole conversation, which is the way, and this is part of it is the strengths. It's not perfect because one, the strike zone is three dimensional. I won't even get into that. But they to do abs, this new system, they had to take it. It's not based on your stance, it's based on your height and how tall you are.
- [92:44]
B
Yeah.
- [92:45]
A
Which means that Major League Baseball measured everyone's height. But for realsies this time. And there was an incredible, incredible story at the Athletic. And shout out to Sam Blum, who wrote this at the Atlantic, who wrote that collectively, across Major League Baseball, everyone's heights went down by over 20ft, which is three Aaron judges plus, like, just disappeared into the ether. Like, more than half of MLB players are shorter now than they list were, don't they? Like, they don't have to go.
- [93:13]
B
They don't have any official measurements of these guys coming into the pros.
- [93:17]
A
It's.
- [93:17]
B
That's crazy.
- [93:19]
A
Well, it's. Whatever. So I'm glad you asked. So Connor Wong.
- [93:21]
B
Just look at their hinge profile.
- [93:23]
A
So Red Sox catcher Connor Wong was listed at 6:1. Turns out he's 5:10. And they asked. Wow. They asked them how that happened. And he said, this is a quote from Connor Wong. In college, I had a couple teammates that were shorter than me and they were listed at 5:10, which is what I was. So I said, I don't know. I was like, can I be listed at 6:1? And they said, yeah, sure. And then nobody ever changed it.
- [93:45]
C
It's like how on your license you can just be as tall as you want.
- [93:47]
B
Yeah. Yeah.
- [93:48]
A
Yes.
- [93:48]
C
Which I didn't know. You could just say whatever.
- [93:50]
B
They're not checking.
- [93:51]
C
No.
- [93:52]
B
Yeah. They're not measuring.
- [93:53]
A
You should have done that. So big dumper, shorter now. Mike Trout, shorter now. Dk, Vlad Guerrera, your entire fantasy baseball team. I have to. I have to shout out a couple guys. Bo Naylor, who's a catcher, I think for the Guardians, is 6ft. He's now 5 9. Bryson.
- [94:08]
B
How did anyone think he was 6ft?
- [94:10]
A
That's crazy. Bryson Stott went from 63 to 6ft. Gavin Lux was 6 2. Now he's 5 11. And I wanted to see if Ken, you guys can gas you guys. If you guys can guess of every height, like, which height do you think on average suffered the biggest drop? So like, like there's all the players to 6 foot 5 and then you have all the players to 6 foot 4 and all the players listed at 6 foot 3, which height on average lost the most height? Which player? Which player were player. Which number were people lying about them?
- [94:39]
B
I feel like people want to be 6 foot. Yeah.
- [94:41]
C
I would guess 6ft.
- [94:43]
A
That's what I thought, too. The number is 511.
- [94:46]
B
Oh.
- [94:47]
A
Because 511 is just. People can't even pretend they're 6ft tall. Yeah.
- [94:51]
B
5 11. I'm close to 6ft. Yeah.
- [94:54]
C
If I said I was 6ft, nobody would believe it. So I'll just say 511, and nobody
- [94:58]
A
will check because, yeah, everyone's like, yeah, every six feet, everyone lies. I just probably told the truth about 511. But, yeah, so 48 players are now 2 inches.
- [95:06]
C
Look, you know, this is the tails oldest time. Who among us.
- [95:09]
B
When are we gonna get this jets shame thing done with? Can we get.
- [95:13]
A
Oh, yes, sorry. I forgot about that.
- [95:14]
B
Jesus.
- [95:15]
A
I got derailed during the giant abs argument. All right, sorry. Let's do that, and then I'll have a good news. Let's hear it.
- [95:19]
B
Let's hear it.
- [95:20]
A
Okay, jets fans respond to Danny Kelly, who again, we were doing a Vibes draft of how fans are feeling this off season.
- [95:27]
B
Was Sean one of the people that
- [95:28]
A
emailed, no, I can't wait to do this?
- [95:30]
C
So even Sean couldn't defend you.
- [95:33]
A
So Ryan o', Hanlon, who.
- [95:34]
C
He didn't even try.
- [95:35]
A
Another person who used to work here for the. It was a Jets fan. Ryan o' Hanlon texted me, said, being hopeful about the jets means you're allowing the whims of Brick Johnson to have a significant impact on your mental health. Anyone who is needs to seek help.
- [95:46]
B
Smart man. He's a smart man.
- [95:48]
A
And again, DK thought the jets had good vibes, so I want to read you down an email from.
- [95:51]
C
Great. He thought they had great vibes.
- [95:53]
B
I didn't say that. I said the difference. The difference between what happened at the end of last year and now, again, to be clear, was the sixth best
- [96:02]
A
before I keep going to get. Yeah, make your case. Explain what? Why you took.
- [96:04]
B
I already did. I'm not doing it again. No, do it on the show.
- [96:07]
A
Just to restate.
- [96:08]
B
To do that again. I already admitted I was wrong. You were right. I'm ugly, you're attractive.
- [96:13]
C
See, if. If we could have just had Robot Power rank the Vibes, this wouldn't have been a problem.
- [96:19]
A
This is why. Well, you know what, tk, I wish you had more.
- [96:22]
B
You know what? Look it all. It worked kind of like a robo thing where you guys called me on it and I was like, well, you know, I was wrong.
- [96:29]
A
I wish you had more faith in. I wish you had more faith. So this is from Dan.
- [96:32]
B
All right.
- [96:32]
C
Danny Debone.
- [96:34]
A
I'm a Jets fan. I think DK is right.
- [96:36]
B
Oh, shit.
- [96:37]
A
Most importantly, I think DK actually understood what you were drafting. Heifetz did. Not the questions.
- [96:41]
B
I mean, that's clear from when the
- [96:43]
A
season ended to now. If a team has no change in Vibes, they should theoretically be in the middle Quibble with that. But yeah, so he says when the jets season ended, vibes wise, we were basically Andy Dufresne and Shawshank Redemption right after Boggs and the sisters gave him one last beat down. And now we're Andy Dufresne and Shawshank after Boggs got his legs broken by the guards of Shawshank.
- [97:03]
B
See, this is what I was trying to say. So one person got it, that's all. I'll take that.
- [97:09]
A
More than that you got. We got a lot of emails, he said. But Dan put it well last year, absolutely pitiful. We won three games now or over under approximately five and a half wins. That's almost double. Not a playoff team. No shit. He says we have eight picks. Keep going. But here's the thing. This is from Alex A bone. DK is far closer to being correct than Craig and Heifetz. The vibe around the jets fandom is far higher than it was at the end of last year. Josh said vibes are high. My dudes an average geno snease and puts him on track to be the best passer in jets history. Scott, second time, long time. DK's right.
- [97:43]
C
Yes.
- [97:45]
B
Wait, what's the. When's the other shoe gonna drop here? I feel like I'm running into a trap.
- [97:50]
A
Well, my point was what I was trying to do with all these is there's a lot of disagreement. I literally there email jets email side by side that are just like Danny's. Literally all these emails are just like Danny Kelly's. Right. Hyphens and Craig are idiots. And then the next email is like hyphens and Craig are right. Danny Kelly's an idiot. It is like pretty. I would say it's really like 60, 40 split toward optimism though.
- [98:10]
C
So what say you DK? Where do you land officially? Because you've already flip flopped. Where are you stand by it or.
- [98:17]
B
No, I. I'm standing by my argument that the Delta was different. I don't. I don't know if maybe.
- [98:25]
A
Would you take them?
- [98:26]
B
6th was probably too much. Probably a bridge too far. We have my second overall pick.
- [98:31]
A
We? Brandon's setting a subject line that said DK's jets pick was cruel and unusual. The take was abhorrent. My father's a lifelong jets fan. He wrote me into this garbage last week. He told me he won't watch a men of the team and my great uncle canceled his season tickets and said a handwritten note to Woody Johnson.
- [98:46]
B
Yeah, so sixth. Sixth is probably wrong.
- [98:49]
A
But then the flip side but more people emailed in though, and we're saying like this Michael saying, Deacon was right. Last season was such a mess. We couldn't get interception. We couldn't have felt lower about them. Then Dante Mordec goes back to college, meaning the jets wouldn't even get a chance to screw up his career. But then solid free agent signings, unflashy smart moves, blah, blah, all the jets fans are pretty into it.
- [99:12]
B
I will say. I texted Ryan during that show to ask him and he said, he said, I don't feel anything. And basically what he wrote to you, he goes, but it does seem like they've made some smart moves. So at least there's that. I just think like they were at rock bottom, even for jets fans. Jets fans, like probably hate me at this point because I just constantly talk about how they can't score touchdowns. And even over the last 10 years, all I've talked about is the jets can't score a touchdown. It's the, it's the main thing in football, scoring a touchdown, and they're very, very bad at that. But I will say last year was like an all time low. It felt like for the jets, like we, we had never seen a low that low.
- [99:51]
A
The jets fans agree and I think they're saying, look, it's not our old. I think that my main thing reading this other than also, they definitely hate me more than they hate you was jets fans are like, yeah, it's our all time low. It's over. How great is that? Yeah, they're like, thank God that's you
- [100:03]
B
hit the trough now we're everything. It's all, it's all good from there from now. Yeah, I didn't realize.
- [100:09]
C
I, I really.
- [100:10]
B
The, the funny thing about this whole thing is I really didn't go into it trying to do like a hot take. I thought you guys would disagree.
- [100:16]
C
That's why it was so great.
- [100:18]
B
I thought you guys would be like a little surprised and then get it. And then you guys were like, I had on 30th.
- [100:24]
A
Well, it's funny because I read 100 emails from jets fans and they're like 65 of them were like, yeah, no, you're wrong. Like the jets do great and 30 of them are like, I never want to watch football again.
- [100:34]
B
Yeah, it's just, I guess it depends on how old people are. How long, how long have they been a Jets fan?
- [100:39]
A
Maybe split even though.
- [100:41]
B
Do they even feel anything anymore?
- [100:43]
A
All right, one last email here. It's from Emma. Emma, this morning's breakfast was an English muffin with avocado and chickpea hash, top of sriracha. Do you recognize that?
- [100:54]
B
Sounds good. Sure.
- [100:56]
A
That's the episode. That's the breakfast that Tyler makes his wife every morning. Tyler the nurse throwing out the first pitch.
- [101:01]
C
What?
- [101:01]
A
His wife. It's a follow up.
- [101:03]
B
Yes.
- [101:05]
A
Tyler won the contest.
- [101:06]
B
Yes.
- [101:07]
A
Her don't know her husband is a nurse. And the Mariners were having a nurse throughout the first pitch. And then Tyler won the contest. So he's an emergency room nurse. Dire Mariners fan makes Emma his breakfast or her breakfast every day. He got first place and he's officially thrown out the first pitch at the Seattle Mariners game for nurse appreciation night on May 5th.
- [101:25]
C
Wow, that's great.
- [101:26]
B
Cinco de Mayo.
- [101:28]
A
Tyler is shocked. He is offering to wear ring or fantasy football show merch, which we're gonna have to hook up.
- [101:34]
C
Piss club.
- [101:35]
A
Yeah.
- [101:35]
B
Can we get him a piss club?
- [101:36]
C
Well, that is the only merch we have.
- [101:38]
A
Yeah.
- [101:40]
B
And also, technically, we don't have it. Somebody just made it.
- [101:43]
A
Emma said Tyler's shocked and excited. Also slightly concerned. He keeps bringing up how on your show you guys said he'd have to do something crazy with the first pitch if he wants. Now he's spiraling a bit.
- [101:52]
B
No, I just want him to throw it as hard as he can. That's all. Throw it as hard as you fucking can. It doesn't matter how hard it is.
- [101:59]
C
I would focus the next month of your life only on this.
- [102:03]
A
Should he like, take a lesson? Should he like, get. Go to like a. Like a pitching.
- [102:06]
C
Like, did he play baseball? Do we know?
- [102:09]
A
I don't know. He loves the Mariners. Barely. He's die hard, so I feel like he probably played as a kid, but should you go and like, be with a bunch of nine year olds, practice and just like actually practice your pitching motion?
- [102:18]
C
I don't know why you got to be with nine year olds, but yeah, I would go practice. Go get a buddy start. Start playing catch.
- [102:24]
B
Hell yeah.
- [102:25]
A
Yeah, I think.
- [102:26]
B
Get that. Get that velocity up 2 or 3 miles per hour.
- [102:28]
C
I. I would. I would really like strengthen the elbow and the shoulder. Put some work in. Don't get.
- [102:34]
B
Don't go so hard. You have to get Tommy John. We don't want that.
- [102:36]
C
Right?
- [102:37]
A
Well, he could fix it because he's a nurse.
- [102:40]
B
Well, sure. I don't know if all nurses can fix. Tommy John can do Tommy John surgery, but I don't think they let nurses do surgery yet.
- [102:48]
C
No, that's. See that. That's where maybe robots Are good? I don't know. Should robots perform surgery?
- [102:53]
B
I don't know.
- [102:54]
A
All right, Tyler, don't throw out your elbow.
- [102:56]
B
The Mariners signed one of their prospects who hasn't even played in the major leagues yet to like an eight year contract and not related. I'm going to sign Calvin up for baseball in the next week.
- [103:07]
A
Dude, baseball gives out like 12 year deals.
- [103:09]
B
It's crazy. The contracts are insane.
- [103:11]
A
They'll give out 12 years for $140 million because they're just so concerned that you'll actually one day be able to get like 800 million. So they're just like, we don't know if you're good.
- [103:19]
B
Right.
- [103:19]
A
Here's like. Here's like two.
- [103:20]
B
Just get ahead of this.
- [103:21]
A
Did you see the Blue Jays traded for Dub Gleed?
- [103:25]
B
Yeah, we got tagged so many times.
- [103:29]
A
Dub Gleed.
- [103:30]
C
I just booked my travel to San Francisco with Gleed for the Rewatchables live show.
- [103:35]
A
Dub.
- [103:36]
C
Which is happening if you want to see the Rewatchables live, although I think it's almost sold out, but. But check.
- [103:41]
B
Do you know the movie? Are they telling Basic?
- [103:44]
C
Basic Instinct. Oh, great San Francisco movie. We've done it once before, but it was over zoom during the pandemic.
- [103:52]
B
Nice.
- [103:53]
C
Okay, so I'm sure that'll be a very appropriate conversation.
- [103:57]
A
Yeah, that's.
- [103:57]
B
That's what could go wrong.
- [103:58]
A
Wild.
- [103:59]
C
It's Van and Mal and Chris and Bill. It should be insane.
- [104:04]
A
That's crazy.
- [104:06]
B
Craig's gonna be like one of those people on shows where you have the. The bleep. No. Or the bleep button.
- [104:12]
C
Yeah.
- [104:12]
B
And you start bleeping people out, you start cutting people's mics, I'm just gonna
- [104:15]
C
have a giant water bottle.
- [104:19]
B
The horny police.
- [104:20]
A
Yeah, that's like. We need, like, the horny SWAT team for that.
- [104:26]
B
Oh, that's funny.
- [104:27]
A
God. All right. Thank you, dk. Thank you, Craig. Thank you to Dubbleed. Thank you. Thank you, Cam. Thank you, Carlos. Thank you, Abu. Thank you, Austin. Thank you all the jets fans who emailed us. And sorry to ones who hate me. And sorry to the ones who hate DK or. You're welcome to the ones who hated me. And you're welcome the ones who.
- [104:45]
B
Do they hate me? Or do they. Or do they just think my take was insane?
- [104:49]
A
More of them hated me.
- [104:50]
B
They hate me.
- [104:52]
A
Thank you, Lord.
- [104:53]
C
Lauren.
- [104:53]
B
Thank you, Phil Collins.
- [104:56]
A
Phil. Cool.
- [105:00]
C
Phil Collins. That works. Shouts out Phil Collins. Shouts out Genesis, my. Shouts out Peter Gabriel, the whole gang.
- [105:09]
A
Jackie's family saw Shaw. Genesis a couple years ago for reunion tour.
- [105:13]
B
Oh.
- [105:14]
A
Got back and I was like, how was it? And her mom was just like, phil
- [105:16]
C
Collins, not looking good now, come on.
- [105:19]
A
That's what I said.
- [105:20]
B
How could you? Craig and I constantly talk about how the 80s were the best, best decade of all time in human existence.
- [105:28]
C
For sure.
- [105:29]
A
We changed the music.
- [105:31]
B
We. So I've been doing so much 80s research that my Instagram algorithm is just like 80 shit now. And I came across one that was Phil Collins live in concert. And he's just, he's dressed like a casual Friday at the office, you know, just like a, like a pair of, of pleated slacks, a tucked in shirt and he's got like one of those mics. He's not even holding the mic. It's a mic that goes from your ear to your mouth. And it was that, you know, I can feel it coming in the air tonight.
- [106:03]
C
Yeah, Mike Tyson.
- [106:05]
B
And then he's like walking around doing that. And then he gets back by the drums, he picks up his drum sticks all like very dramatically and then it's great. The 80s ruled.
- [106:15]
C
The 80s rocked.
- [106:18]
B
Let's go back. We're kind of going back. Let's be honest.
- [106:21]
A
We're not.
- [106:21]
B
Some of the styles and music is better.
- [106:23]
C
We're not going back to the 80s. I don't think. You can't.
- [106:25]
B
Well, well, you can't go backwards, but you can try and recreate it.
- [106:30]
C
You can't. You know, if you try, you'll fail. It has to be organic and that's what's, that's what's beautiful about that.
- [106:35]
B
Now I actually, I'm putting it all together. Craig likes the 80s because he likes baseball in its purest form.
- [106:40]
C
That's right.
- [106:41]
B
And he doesn't like these robo umps.
- [106:43]
C
No, I want to take, I want to take my wayo to the stadium with human refs.
- [106:51]
B
The duality of man.
- [106:55]
A
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- [108:05]
B
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A
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- [108:17]
C
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- [108:19]
B
I'm told it's super easy to do@mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment of $45 for three month plan equivalent to $15 per month required intro rate first three months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See full terms@mintmobile.com.