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- [00:00]
A
This episode is brought to you by Yahoo. Fantasy. It's my favorite time of the year. The NFL season is almost here and fantasy football season is in full swing. This season Yahoo. Fantasy is taking it up a notch and giving you a fantasy football experience like never before. This year we're playing on Yahoo. Fantasy and you should too. We're doing the Ringer Fantasy Football League on Yahoo. Fantasy because it's the best place to do the league. Yahoo Fantasy is dropping 28 big new features over 28 days throughout the they just dropped Yahoo Fantasy Guillotine leagues where the lowest scoring team gets eliminated weekly until one is left standing. Give this new mode a try or stick with the classics in private head to head leagues or public leagues. Stay tuned for more killer announcements and start playing Yahoo. Fantasy Football now@yahoo. Fantasy.com theringer welcome to the Rigor Fantasy Football Show. My name is Danny Hutchinson. I'm joined by Danny Kelly and Craig Robeck and today we are going over our tight end tiers, our tight end fears, our tight end sleepers, everything, previewing the tight end position for 2025. Usually we hit a little news at the top. Full disclosure, it's Wednesday, July 30th that we are recording this episode. So the news is kind of old now. So we're going to hit anything big that has happened and I'm sure something has happened between where we're recording this and when you're listening to it. We will hit that in the middle of this week. We'll have another episode coming to you on Wednesday and more after that. So we'll hit the news then. So we're going to get into tight ends and I want to start with this Danny Kelly because I feel like for the most part, honestly most of the time I've ever been playing fantasy football, it's just tight end is just the worst position. It's so annoying. You either have Travis Kelce or a George Kittle here or there and you either have those guys or you're unhappy. And so we always talk about how just streaming tight ends and adding a guy off waivers in a week eight because the bye week's the most annoying part of the whole fricking hobby we do. So looking at tight end for 2025, do you basically feel the same way that this position's really annoying or is any part of you excited about it?
- [02:04]
B
No, not really. I'm not excited about it. In other words, still sucks. It's kind of one of those positions where it's just so rare to see A tight end be the either the number one or number two option in the passing game. And that's kind of like what you need to have a real true fantasy difference maker. Every once in a while guys like, you know, Kate Otten or whatever like because of injury will become the number two. But for the most part, receivers so deep. NFL teams are running so many sets with wide receivers this going forward and I don't know, it's just one of those positions that doesn't get a ton of targets and I think it makes a lot of sense why he's like they're bigger and slower lumbering oaths usually and receivers are very, I thought they.
- [02:42]
A
Were all really athletic.
- [02:43]
B
DK the really good ones are really athletic, but what about the bad ones? The bad ones are not as athletic. Craig. Yeah, they're lumbering oafs if you will. So I don't know, it, it makes.
- [02:53]
A
Sense why lumbering oaths about NFL tight ends.
- [02:57]
B
I know they're probably like if you played basketball against them they would be just absolutely like dunking on you.
- [03:03]
A
Every NFL tight end probably could have been played basketball if they were 68 instead of 6 4.
- [03:08]
B
But I mean you're comparing them to a 5 foot 11, 195 pound guy who could run a 4 3. So those guys are a little faster and quicker generally speaking and can get open quicker. And so I think that's kind of why passing games generally speaking go through the receivers. But there are a handful of guys, Brock Bowers, Trey McBride, superstar type players so that's exciting. But overall I feel like the position's just as big of a pain in the ass as always.
- [03:33]
A
Craig, do you agree with DK that tight end still sucks or is he just old and jaded?
- [03:39]
C
It mostly sucks. It is kind of fun that for the first time in a long time, like the two best tight ends are not Travis Kelce, Mark Andrews. There is kind of a new wave of guy, a new wave of talent. Trey McBride, Brock Bars like that is really fun. Sam Laporta, Tucker Craft like there's a new wave coming which is exciting. But the, the yearly amnesia you get with tight end where you say you know what, I'm going to wait and try to play whack a mole and hope that Shiga conquo goes off this year. That timeless ritual makes tight end the most frustrating position in fantasy.
- [04:11]
A
It's kind of like how it, you know, Kevin Garnett said this about like Giannis where if he hits the first three pointer to game you're happy because then he'll keep shooting. Or sometimes you walk in a casino and you play blackjack and you win a bunch in the first or you play roulette and you hit and you win. The casino's probably happy because now you're going to do that forever. You can remember the winning. It's like it's almost bad if you hit Jimmy Graham in the 11th round of your fantasy league in like 2011, because now you're just thinking you could do that every year and it's been 15 years and you probably haven't done it since and you're like, oh, well, Brock Bowers last year. And it's like, yeah, but like it's probably gonna be another decade before you just find like the 13th round tight end that's actually the number one guy. So yeah, it's, it's kind of like quarterback. Just getting a great one is probably better if we're being totally honest because it sucks to just try to add like John Smith off the Steelers in week nine. Like that's just not fun. But yeah, we can go through the specific guys before we do that, just want to remind people. Follow us on Instagram Ringer Fantasy Football Follow us on YouTube Ringer Fantasy Football TikTok Ringer Fantasy we're going to take a quick break and then we're going to go through all the tight ends for this season. This episode of the Ringer Fantasy Football show is presented by Hyundai. Get into the Hyundai getaway sales event and get away with a deal. So right. It almost feels right. Wrong. You can get huge savings on their adventure ready SUV's like the Hyundai Santa Fe and Santa Fe hybrid models. Or go all electric and choose from America's most awarded EV lineup like the Breakthrough Ioniq 5 or Ioniq 6. Visit HyundaiUSA.com or call 562-314-4603 for details. Offers End September 2, 2025 okay, let's get into our tight end tiers for 2025. And just a reminder, overall, the reason we do tiers is because as much as everyone's obsessed with rankings, tiers is the way we draft. I highly rec you have tears when you draft because again, it's just a decision making framework to just be able to eyeball it when you're on the clock and it's going tick, tick, tick, tick down and you're like, oh my God. And it's like, okay, you have five receivers and five running backs here. And then like George Kittle is in a tier of his own and then you're like, oh, wait, there's a massive gap between George Kittle and any other player. I'll take George Kittle. And then it's like you beat the buzzer, but then you come back around and you're like, wait, one of the running backs I was thinking about at the last pick is here again. Great. And it's like, that's why it's so important to make tears. And, and also the process of doing it just kind of makes you think, wait, where is my personal line? And what's the worst player I actually want as my number one running back? What is the worst player I'll accept as my quarterback? Wait, there's a lot of receivers I like just as much as these guys, so it's a really helpful thing. So we're going to go through, we are going to decide what our tiers are as a show and where we delineate them on our rankings@fantasy football.the com. So with that said, I'm going to go through my takes on the tiers. Craig and DK have made their own. I don't see theirs and they're going to yell at me. We're going to figure them out. So without Further ado, Tier 1, a tight end for 2025 fantasy football. I called it guys who had more catches than Justin Jefferson last year and that is Brock Bowers for the Raiders and Trey McBride for the Arizona Cardinals. There are a couple ways you could do this. Frankly, it's just an argument whether George Kittle should be in this tier or if he's his own tier at number two. But starting with you, dk, did you are those. There's so much to say about these guys. But did you have Trey McBride and Brock Bowers as your top two tier guys?
- [07:22]
B
I did and I called it the pure sex tier. And I had George Kittle in a separate own tier as well.
- [07:28]
A
I just think pure sex.
- [07:30]
C
Bowers, to me, mediocre sex. Yeah.
- [07:33]
A
Sex. Yeah. Still sex.
- [07:35]
B
Both of these guys, Bowers and McBride still ascending as players, you know what I mean? They're going into their prime, still in positions where they're going to be either the number one or number two option in their offense on almost every game. I think with McBride, positive regression is coming. McBride to me is a great example of a guy who is kind of flying, not he's not flying under the radar, but like he could have an all time season if he just catches like eight touchdowns, you know what I mean? Because he's last year the Touchdown thing was the big issue, really held him back. But he had 111 catches, which I think that number in itself, which is.
- [08:09]
C
One less than Brock Bowers, but he did it in one less game.
- [08:11]
A
Well, on that note, the catches, the players who had the most catches last season, period, number one was Jamar Chase, number two was a Monroe St. Brown, number three was Brock Bowers. Number four is Trey McBride. Literally those were the top four players and catches the whole season. But to your point about McBride at the touchdowns before last year, there literally have been five players in the history of the NFL who had 1100 yards in a season and didn't catch more than two touchdowns.
- [08:34]
C
I have to imagine, I have to imagine he's the only player ever to have over 110 catches and one touchdown.
- [08:41]
A
Catches has actually happened more.
- [08:44]
C
Really one touchdown and over 110 catches? No way. Oh, two, two, two.
- [08:52]
A
Really confusing because Trey McBride heel said.
- [08:54]
C
A rushing touchdown, that's happened many times. 110 catches, two touchdowns.
- [08:57]
A
That's crazy to me that one because I, I think the 1100 yards is the spectac. I mean again, he had 500 yards for every touchdown.
- [09:04]
C
And what's even crazier, he was tied for second among all tight ends in the NFL and red zone targets.
- [09:10]
A
So what about chances? We look back on the season and Trey McBride just had three touchdowns. Again, like I, I actually, what do you think's more likely, DK? Trey McBride has two touchdowns in week one or he has three touchdowns on the season.
- [09:21]
B
Again, more likely he has two in week one.
- [09:24]
C
100.
- [09:25]
A
Yeah, I, McBride is the easy one. I, I, I think they're, yeah, they're the top two guys.
- [09:29]
C
I, I agree with DK though that like I do think McBride is kind of flying under the radar for somebody who maybe should be the number one overall tight end.
- [09:36]
B
Take it in fantasy, right?
- [09:38]
C
It's pretty impressive in general that these guys were so good last year. They were the tight end two and tight end three in terms of fantasy points just behind George Kittle and combined Brock Bowers and Trey McBride had seven touch receiving touchdowns last year, which is as much as Zach Ertz had. Like they were the top two and three tight ends, they had seven touchdowns combined.
- [09:56]
A
Mark Andrews, who for the Ravens, who most people cut last season, had 11 touchdowns in his final 12 games or something, which is more than these two guys combined. So we have Brock Bowers overall we have him 15th among players and Trey McBride 19th. And that's the thing I want to laser in on here because I think it's easy. The easiest thing in the world is to say Brock Bowers and trademark Brady top two tight ends. I think it's more important to be like, where do people take them? The one thing I want to laser in on here is Brock Bowers. I have a bunch of Brock Bowers stats here that just blew my mind. But I wanted to point out that just basically none of us disagree on where we rank among tight ends. But I will just say DK is Brock Bowers 10th overall and Craig has a Brock Bowers 18th or 19th. Yeah, and I wanted you. And on one hand that's still not that big of a difference, but it kind of is because DK is basically saying you're comfortable taking Brock Bowers at the end of the first round, even in a 10 team league or so. And Craig's kind of saying he's more like toward the end of the second round. And I wanted DK and I, I could, I could see it both ways. But dk, I wanted to ask you why you feel comfortable taking Brock Bowers over the other elite receivers like Malik Neighbors for the Giants, Nico Collins for the Texans, Amano State Brown for the Lions. I'm just curious. Why, why you have Bowers 10th overall?
- [11:02]
C
Yeah. Why would you do that?
- [11:03]
A
Yeah. Idiot. The fuck is wrong with you?
- [11:05]
B
I think it's defend yourself. It's about positional scarcity for me. I mean, you're looking at the number. Craig, you just said it. They're putting up elite receiver numbers. And these are like, I think the only two guys that are going to do that at the tight end position. You're going to have a huge advantage if you have one of these two guys at your tight end spot. There's a million receivers. I understand that not all the receivers are going to put up the numbers that you have with, you know, Almond Ross, St. Brown, Puka, Malik, neighbors, those guys in this range, like Drake, London. But I just think the positional value, the positional bump that you get from these guys, I just want to have those guys in my lineup every week because there's just, you can find receivers a little bit later who are going to also put up big numbers. But I don't know if you can do that with tight ends. Like there's a handful of guys that might, but there's also a handful. There's also most of these guys. I'm like, there's major question marks about every single one of them outside of the top, like three or four.
- [12:00]
A
All right, that makes sense then. Craig, why do you have Brock Bowers 19th? Idiot?
- [12:03]
C
I'll tell you. I, I think it's because of the opportunity cost. While I agree with DK that the positional scarcity is there, the opportunity cost of the guys you're not taking, when you take Brock Bowers 10th overall, that means you're not taking Puka Nukua or Amanra St. Brown, who last year put up 15 points a game. Brock Bowers had an all time season, he put up 12. And so I, I do think the ceiling of tight end is naturally lower. I mean if you combine Brock Bowers with wide receivers, he was the 22nd overall scorer at, at those two positions combined and you start more wide receivers and, and with, you know, a lot of people are starting three wide receivers now. You have a flex position. Some people have two flex positions. There are so many receivers. That is true. But I, I think it makes more sense to focus on the positions you can start more of because there are, they have higher ceilings than what tight end can bring you. If you get, you know, a Tucker Craft who puts up nine points a game versus Brock Bowers who puts up 12 points a game, that's, that's very different than grabbing a Monroe St. Brown who puts up 15 points a game and then filling your roster with, you know, take your shot at Khalil Shakirs and things like that. So I do think the opportunity cost at tight end is much, much higher and you really need them to have a huge year to take them 10th overall.
- [13:17]
A
I go back and forth because you're right generally speaking I think that the receivers like the top of the receiver thing is this year is so good and then it gets so flat because receiver is one of the easiest positions to predict year over year because it's like who's going to get as long as everyone's healthy, like who's going to get targets, who's going to get the ball. Touchdowns are always, always wonky. But it's generally pretty easy to be like which elite receivers are going to get. That's basically the, the stickiest stat year over year is like targets, catches, all that stuff. And so you look at the top and it's like Nico Collins, Puka Monroe, Brian Thomas, like all these guys are great. But to DK's point there is something about just sticking one of those like Brock Bowers being about that good as a receiver and sticking him in your tight end slots like a cheat code. And the one thing I wanted to.
- [13:55]
C
Say, it feels nice in the same way Having an elite quarterback is really nice. Not having to just deal with like, I hope Dallas Goddard catches a touchdown is. Is kind of priceless.
- [14:07]
A
Have you ever seen the. The Gentleman, the Guy Ritchie movie?
- [14:11]
B
Yeah, it's.
- [14:12]
A
I love that movie so much. It's like my brother's favorite movie. But the. There's a scene where basically Colin Farrell's like a boxing coach and a bunch of the kids he coaches like fucked up with, like, basically like the British mafia, basically. And he goes in and he has like the best apology I've ever seen. And he's like, I can't make up. I'm not going to do the accent because people get mad. But he's like, I can't make up for the headache, the energy, the time, the stress. And I'm like, that's how I feel. Taking Brock Bowers is like, Brock Bowers makes up the time, the energy, the stress, the fucking headache. And it's like, that is really what you're doing. But I think the difference is in the past, it kind of felt like you were not capitulating, but you're kind of. There's a little wish casting sometimes that the tight end can kind of actually deliver on that. Like when you're taking Mark Andrews 24th or overall a couple seasons ago. But I think the flip side is with Brock Bowers. I gotta read you this list. That's. That's. I couldn't believe. So shout out to Ron Stewart, who's a. Who's a great YouTuber. And he had this list with Josh Norris at Underdog, who we love Josh Norris. Go follow them on Instagram and everything. And it was basically the best rookie seasons for pass catchers of the last 15 years. And there's a funny thing, I know I'm just throwing out names now, but Adam Harstadt is a great thing that basically receivers, it's kind of like ball don't lie. Like, if you're great as a rookie. The list of great rookie receivers is kind of just a list of great receivers. Like, it's like an 80, 90% hit rate if you had a great rookie year. And so I just. Just fantasy full. This is points per game, full PPR. We usually do half PPR, but for full PPR for points per game. Rookies in the last 15 years, entering last season, the best players ever were LSU guys. So Odell Beckham Jr. Jamar Chase, Justin Jefferson, Puka Nukua, Michael Thomas, Mike Evans, Julio Jones and that. So that's like five hall of Famers. Brock Bowers is 10th. Brock Bowers, where he would have been is like right by the, he's right behind Julio Jones in that list. Now last year's class was crazy because lad, McConkey, Malik neighbors, all those guys like Brian Thomas, they slide in right there which is insane. But the idea that Brock Bowers is on a rookie year points per game list with Julio Jones who is legit probably one of the four or five best receivers I've ever seen in my entire life, the fact that he's a tight end, that he's a rookie, that he's a second year player with a better quarterback, I, I. There is another level here with how good Brock Bowers could be and if I agree that you start taking him 10th or 11th I get a little squirrely. But if Brock Bowers falls to my Number is is 15, 16 past Devon HN I am I would take Brock Bowers over like Jonathan Taylor, Trey McBride, Drake London, even AJ Brown because I just the idea that he could be like a Travis Kelsey but he's so young to me is, is crazy.
- [16:44]
B
Yeah, I think like I actually agree with everything Craig was saying in terms of just like the potential for opportunity, opportunity costs but all those receivers that end up being like game or league winning type players are catching double digit touchdowns. I mean if Brock Bowers with a way better quarterback this year catches 10 touchdowns like he's going to be one of the most valuable players in all of fantasy. So obviously that doesn't happen as often I guess at the tight end position but it does happen. And you know, I mean we saw, I think Laporta had tennis rookie season receiving touchdowns. All touchdowns are pretty not random but there's high variance in terms of like scoring touchdowns. There's only so many touchdowns in an NFL season and teams spread the ball around, weird stuff happens like the Lions pass their frickin offensive lineman. So I don't know, I just, yeah, I just want to bet on Bowers. I'm just, I just think he's one of the best players, one of the best prospects we've ever seen at the time position and I just want to catch him as he's continuing to go up.
- [17:47]
A
Yeah, it's literally just scary because the Raiders are weird and he did it one time and that's kind of it.
- [17:52]
C
Yeah, like I think analytically taking him 10th is not the most sound decision. However in my heart it is and it's just really fun. Yeah but, but in theory if you're starting two, three potentially four wide receivers every week you want more bites at those.
- [18:07]
A
So. Well, and that's the, the last thing I'd say is I think the most overrated thing in fantasy is do you get full point perception or half the short back of the napkin Math is I'd say this. If your league starts two receivers each week in a flex. So if you're in a 10 team league and the starting roster spots are two wide receivers, Brock Bowers is more valuable.
- [18:27]
C
Yeah.
- [18:27]
A
Because there's only 20, 25 receivers starting every week. If you're in a 12 team league that starts three receivers now you're closer to 40, maybe even 43, 45 receivers playing.
- [18:37]
C
And if there's a flex position, most people are not starting tight ends at flex.
- [18:40]
A
Exactly.
- [18:41]
C
Wide receivers. So that's even deeper.
- [18:43]
A
The difference between 25 starting. If two receivers are starting per team, that means like DK Metcalf could be the worst receiver starting in a given week. If it's like a 12 team league with three receivers, that means like Darnell Mooney is like starting every week. So the supply and demand makes like Nico Collins more valuable. But if that Brock Bowers is way more valuable in a two receiver league, 100%. So check your roster settings because that is actually to me like easily a tiebreaker for all this of where you should take them, whether it's 10th or 20th or whatever. And then. Yeah. So McBride, where's your guys's line before you take McBride? Because I have him basically. He's cleanly like my 21st player and I almost think he's the cutoff for when I, if he's gone, I will take quarterbacks, which I'm probably earlier on quarterbacks than anyone this year. But I'm like, if Trey McBride is like Trey McBride is the top 20, 21 guys or so. And then I'm like willing to take Jalen hurts, but McBride, as long as he's there, that's like the last player before I'll break the quarterback seal.
- [19:38]
C
Yeah, I, I have, honestly I have him and Brock literally back to back right after like the freak receivers. Basically right after like Drake London, Malik, neighbors, A.J. brown. Go guys. Right. Truly think they have like a legitimately realistic shot of finishing as the best wide receiver in fantasy then. So it's like end of the second round, mid to late second round. I think Trey and Brock should be neck and neck again. I just can't. I. It's insane. Trey McBride had two touchdowns last year and he was the tight end three. Like if, like just natural regression. Even if he's not good at catching touchdowns, he'll probably have five or six. And if he has like a normal great tight end season for his skill level, he'll have like seven to nine, which would put him on a whole nother level. So I think they should be back to back. Although Brock is way sexier.
- [20:17]
A
Dk, do you know who which tight end was actually by points per game? The number one tight end in fantasy football last year?
- [20:22]
B
George Kittle.
- [20:23]
A
It was George Kittle.
- [20:24]
C
You named your dog after George Kittle, right?
- [20:26]
A
Yeah, exactly.
- [20:27]
B
Sure did.
- [20:27]
A
Tier 2 is just George Kittle. I don't think anyone belongs in it. And I think it's easier to argue that George Kittle should be in the tier above with Bowers and Trey McBride then Kittle should be. Anyone else belongs to them. I think he's totally natier on his own and I don't know, we could talk about him a lot. Lot. But basically we have George Kittle 38th overall. And I guess my question is just DK, like, are we too low on him?
- [20:49]
B
It's possible. I think. Here's how I would delineate, like the Bowers McBride versus George Kittle argument. Like Bowers 25% target rate. McBride 28% target rate. 28% target rate for a tight end is incredible. That's exactly what you want. George kittle last year, 18%. That means. What does that mean? That means he's relying on touchdowns. He had eight touchdowns.
- [21:11]
A
But is it. But is it? But isn't the obvious argument, like, Debo Samuel is now on Washington. Brandon Ayuk is. What did John lynch say? The GM said? Not anywhere close to a concrete timetable for return. Juwan Jennings has already had a calf setback. Not just a calf injury, but a calf setback for Joanne Jennings. Jacob, I never say cowing or coing, but like his hamstring injury.
- [21:30]
B
Yeah.
- [21:31]
A
And Ricky Parasol just got off physically unable to perform less. So it's like, isn't George Kittle like, isn't there a serious chance George Kittle straight up as the number one receiver for this team?
- [21:39]
B
Yes, I. That's why I've been kind of all over Kittle. I think he's a good value right now and I think his target rate is probably going to jump back up to like 22, 23% just based on like everything you just said. The changes that we've seen in the 49ers receiving group. I think also Kittle is going to play kind of like the de facto debo role where they're getting him in the screen game. He's awesome at running after the catch. He's awesome at breaking tackles. That's. That was basically what. That was what he was known for early on in his career. He went. He had like over 800 yards after the catch in one season. So he's, he's awesome in space. Get the ball in his hands and let him just go run through guys. And I think that they're going to do that a little bit more and I think, you know, that's going to be kind of. It's. It's a supplement to the run game. Right. Like you're getting the ball outside quickly, letting your receivers block. All the receivers in 40 in the 49ers roster, half block, that's like a. The prerequisite. That's why Brandon Aiyuk was in the doghouse early on in his career. Um, so yeah, I think kd, there's a chance his target rate jumps pretty significantly this year because of all that, all those changes, all that flux in the offense and I don't know, Kittle doesn't seem like he's fallen off to me at all.
- [22:48]
C
No, I agree. I. I think he does firmly belong in his own tier. I don't think he should be with Trey McBride and Brock Bowers. I mean, Kittle ran extremely hot last year. He caught 83% of his passes, which is the highest in his career, by like 12%. He has not had more than 100 targets in a season since 2019. And for reference, Bowers had and Trey McBride at 150. I mean, those guys are getting 50 more targets a season than George Kittle. And even if you look at. After IUK went down mid. Mid year, Kittle was still around 18% and that was without McCaffrey. So it's like, I do think there's like a bit of a ceiling. And he ran really, really hot last year and I do think he's. He's probably kind of in that 3 to 5 range in terms of like what is most likely top three to five at the position.
- [23:35]
A
I mean, I like Kittle a lot. We have the. The only guy. Yeah, dk. We have James Cook ranked over George Kittle. Would you rather have j. The clock is actually ticking down. Would you actually take George Kittle or James Cook?
- [23:49]
B
I mean, yeah, probably Kittle, honestly, like chips down. James Cook, I think, led the NFL last year in touchdowns. That's probably not going to happen again. It just depends.
- [23:58]
C
And it is.
- [23:59]
B
And it goes back to the discussion. We just had is like how you're building your roster in terms of what. Where you want to take a tight end. But, yeah, I think I probably lean Kittle there a little bit.
- [24:06]
C
It just get. It just gets tricky drafting tight ends. Like in those top three rounds when you realize, like, okay, sure, James Cook in a vacuum, it's like, oh, I would rather have George Kittle. But then that means you're waiting a whole nother round to get a wide receiver or a running back, which means you're missing out on a different wide receiver running back. And when you're. When you're street, when it's waivers week six and you need a tight end, it is a lot easier to just like, grab a guy who can get you 10 points than it is to fill in a running back. And so it gets tough. I think Kittle's the last guy where I would be okay with feeling confident that he's going to make a difference. And then once you get into this next tier, it starts to become.
- [24:41]
A
We have a massive drop off. And again, our rankings, you can go to fantasy football.throw.com, our rankings got a facelift. And you can look up there. We also have a draft tracker. So as you're doing your drafts, you can actually. These guys get crossed off. You can keep track of them. So obviously it's called a draft tracker. Obviously you can keep track of them. So. But use that. And our rankings are there, so you can, like, look at it. They look really good on your phone, too. So if you want to look at it while you're listening to this, you.
- [24:59]
C
Can pull it up small screen. They look great on small screen.
- [25:01]
A
Great on the small screen. And that is life. Now you just come home from work and you're like, turn off.
- [25:06]
B
Turn off medium screen.
- [25:08]
A
Tired of looking at medium screens. Let's turn on big screen. While it's like, hey, this weekend, should we go.
- [25:13]
C
Should we go do big screen on Saturday night?
- [25:15]
A
You want to do maps of screen?
- [25:16]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [25:17]
A
Massive rectangle. Okay. Massive drop off to tier 3. My tier 3 is TJ Hawkinson for the Vikings, Sam Laporta for the Lions, and I actually added Mark Andrews for the Ravens, which I want to talk to you about. And a reminder that in when we do tears, basically the whole point of what we're talking about is anyone, any order of these guys, I don't really give a shit about within the order of the tiers. I have a ranking within the tiers, but I don't. I'm not going to argue with you if the rankings, if you jumble them. But basically we're trying to figure out if these people belong. So I think Hawkinson and laporte are easy to put in a tier together. Mark Andrews is new and I added him because today Isaiah likely broke a bone in his foot. And so Isaiah likely is the other tight end in the Baltimore Ravens is probably miss about six weeks. I think that's a huge deal. Because honestly, Mark Andrews, the biggest impediment to his playing time is. Isaiah likely is also great. He's an awesome receiving tight end. He's younger. Rotates in the idea. The idea that Isaiah likely is a foot injury. It's a foot. He's getting foot surgery in August. The idea that he'll just come back one just cardio and conditioning, but also the idea that he'll just come back and be an elite 100 percentile of his athleticism of foot surgery is that's just not. That's just not how it goes. I. I would love to. I don't know if there's data, but I would love to see the history of people got foot surgery in August and like, needed less than three months to get back to whoever they were. So I think Mark Andrews is firmly in this tier now. And again, he was horrific at the beginning of last season, but Mark Andrews had a car crash in the wooded facility. And frankly the Ravens. What was the term they used? They said nothing structurally, I think.
- [26:45]
B
Yeah, I think they said he didn't. He didn't injure anything structurally or he has no structural damage.
- [26:50]
C
Like he didn't break any bones.
- [26:51]
A
Yeah. They're like, yeah. So we just.
- [26:52]
B
His not doing so great right now. His internal organs are a little bit messed up, but no broken bones.
- [26:59]
A
So we took them at his word. And then he was terrible. And everyone's like, oh, what's going on?
- [27:02]
C
And we're like, well, he was like the poster child of the burn book last year, Mark.
- [27:06]
A
Yeah. Because people were wanted to cut him.
- [27:08]
C
And he had multiple games, I think with zero points.
- [27:11]
A
Yeah. Maybe because he had been in a car crash weeks earlier. And so then he had 11 touchdowns in his final 12 games. So he should.
- [27:18]
B
He should probably be our tight end. 4.
- [27:20]
A
Do you think he should be there over Hawkinson probably?
- [27:23]
C
Oh, I think so. I think. I think Laporta and Andrews are over Hawkinson. Personally, Andrews was the. The fifth best tight end over the second half of the season. That was with likely playing. And I know he ran hot with touchdowns, but, like, he's becoming One of my favorite picks in fantasy one because the ick of the lasting memory of Mark Andrews is his dropping the two point conversion in the playoffs against the Bills, which is brutal. And last year he was also coming off a really nasty ankle injury, you know, and the car crash as well. So I still think, I mean this offense is like he is the red. If they're throwing the ball, he's the red zone guy. They have Zay Flowers, I guess they have DeAndre Hopkins, they have Rashad Bateman. But like Mark Andrews is the guy that Lamar trusts in the red zone. He consistently scores a lot of touchdowns. Prior to last year he was a tight end 4, 3 and 1. He was like the only guy who could take down Travis kelsey the last five years. He's 30 years old. No likely. I and I think he has like a little bit of a bad reputation right now because of that, the, the dropped pass. So I, I kind of love him. I usually you don't want to go for like mid round tight ends. It's usually like the worst spot to grab them. But I do kind of like Mark Andrews.
- [28:28]
B
I mean, yeah, Lamar is, Lamar has a very long and consistent history of feeding his tight end, especially Mark, and particularly Mark Andrews. And I think with Hawkinson and Laporta you have, we have major question marks with these guys. Right? Like Laporta might be the number three receiver on his team, not the number two receiver. It could be, it could be Amon Ra, Jameson Williams, maybe even throw Jameer Gibbs in there. I think Jameer Gibbs got close to the amount of targets that Laporta had last year. And so in with Hawkinson we don't really know. Obviously rookie or not rookie quarterback, but first year quarterback in terms of starting in J.J. mcCarthy and then you got Justin Jefferson, Jordan Addison who's going to be suspended for a little bit, but he'll be there most of the season. And then Hawkinson, assuming he's healthy, he's probably going to be the number three guy most of the time. So with Andrews, he's probably going to. Don't you think he'll finish second on the team in targets if not first?
- [29:23]
C
Well, I think he's the number one guy in the red zone and his quarterback is like a yearly mvp. And then TJ Hawkinson is probably the third guy on his team catching passes from a rookie.
- [29:32]
A
But yeah, no, I mean I think Andrews is definitely going to be the number two target getter after Flowers. I think we'll get more targets than Bateman. But to your Point. Yeah. Zay Flowers is not a red zone guy. It's like the red zone is Derek Henry and then it, you know, it's probably going to be Mark Andrews. I think the thing is Lamar threw 41 touchdowns last year and it's. That's probably going to be a lot because the Dragons had a crazy look.
- [29:49]
C
At the years before that. Andrews was even better.
- [29:52]
A
That's true. So yeah, I think overall I the guy I wanted to love TJ Hawkinson coming in the season because he's another guy who had an injury and it was underrated. He Towards ACL the end of 2023 and returned mid 2024 and then wasn't back. But then I think he Hawkinson was himself again at the end of the year and the numbers don't really bear that out. But like I saw it like T.J. hawkinson toward the end of the year and this is, we see this all the time with ACL recovery guys are back on the, on the field and people are like, all right, cool, they're back. But just because you're back lowercase B doesn't mean you're back. Like capital, capital letter B. Like we all the time people confuse back the pl. Like literally there is a gap where your mind needs to learn to trust the leg. Your leg again, like your mind like is withholding you, giving full effort and everything. And athletes have to learn that just there's an adjustment period. We see this all the time that people like overrate. When a player immediately returns, they suck. They're like fuck this guy. And then the guy gets back to his prior form and people like all the time. So Hawkinson, I look at him, on one hand I'm like I want to believe. And then on the other hand I'm like, well Justin Jefferson's the number one and Jordan Addison's number two and Hawkins is just the third guy for rookie quarterback. But then I'm like, well Addison's going to miss two or three games for sure. And then Justin Jefferson hammy. Well yeah, when Justin Jefferson missed half the season a couple years ago with hamstring injuries, his hamstring pulled him.
- [31:11]
C
No, we're not, we're doing.
- [31:12]
A
Sounds too whimsical. But Jefferson has this pulled hamstring right now. But the last time this happened when Justin Jefferson was out a couple years ago, that stretch teacher Hawkinson was on like a 1300 yard pace. Yeah, when Justin Jefferson was out, like he was the number one guy. So part of me is almost worried I'm going to Galaxy brain myself and to be like but I saw TJ Hawkinson with my own eyes and now I'm statistically being gaslit into but. But his ceiling's low. But I'm like well Justin Jefferson's hurt right now. If Justin Jefferson's out, TJ Hawkinson is probably the best bet to join Bowers McBride and Kittle as a top four tight end because every game that Jeff Justin Jefferson were to miss Hawkinson's right there with like Trey McBride to me and George Kittle. So I again I. He's. It's weird because Hawkinson's almost like a Dallas Goddard where it's like well if one of the receivers gets hurt he could be really good. But like that's also just a bizarre way to play fantasy football is like yeah, I'll take a TJ Hawkins in 67th because what if the, the coolest player in the NFL gets injured in Justin Jefferson. I'm like I don't. You know what I mean? So I, I don't really think I want to target TJ Hawkins in that way which is too bad.
- [32:16]
B
But the, the other thing here to mention here and I don't know if this means anything going forward but JJ McCarthy did show and I, I kind of think there is a little bit of a like tight end that apart from like the elite tight ends the, the other good tight ends in fantasy are with quarterbacks that like throwing over the middle of field and like throwing to their tight ends. Right like going back, you know, the Russell Wilson's of the world. You're not going to get a big tight end season out of that guy most of the time because he just doesn't really like throwing over the middle of field where the tight ends are typically kind of like wandering about lumbering Oaths.
- [32:52]
C
Grazing in the middle of the.
- [32:53]
B
Field just wandering about DK holding both.
- [32:58]
A
These things of like Titans are lumbering Oaths also they're all really athletic. Is like my.
- [33:03]
B
I'm saying the elite ones are not lumbering. Oh siphons. But anyway going back to the last two seasons that J.J. mcCarthy started at Michigan, Colson Levin was prolific relative to the amount of like throws that they were making that offense of. It was a run heavy like low volume passing offense. But Colson levelin like he more than doubled any other receiver on the team last year and the year before that he was one of the team's top receivers. So I think JJ McCarthy very clearly comfortable throwing to the tight end position like pushing the ball up the seams that's kind of one of the things you noticed when you were scouting him. And so maybe there's something there in terms of just like, JJ McCarthy is the guy that likes to target his tight ends.
- [33:41]
C
I don't.
- [33:42]
B
I don't know if that's like, enough to really bank on, but it is something that I find interesting.
- [33:48]
A
I just googled McCarthy height trying to get J. I couldn't remember if he was 63 or 6 2. And then I got Joseph McCarthy Heights. This. This the Senator McCarthyism. Yeah. It's unclear how tall Joseph McCarthy was, but anyway, just want to let you.
- [34:00]
C
Guys, if you could find that out, that'd be great.
- [34:01]
B
Yeah. Now I'm pins and needles about this.
- [34:05]
A
This episode is brought to you by Wayfair. Your home, it's more than a space. It's where you express yourself. Like, we've all got our set up for when the guys are over, right? So my thing, when it. When. When everyone's just around watching a game, watching a movie, whatever is I. I go for. I want a corner couch. If it's a L shaped couch, I want the corner. That to me is like, I don't know if it's the alpha spot, but I'm like, I. That's where I. That's like the Nestle. That's the cozy. That's where I want to be. And if that's not available, any kind of, like, single chair, like, where I'm not on the couch. Like, if it rocks. Unbelievable. Recliner, I'm in heaven Recliner, cup holder, full leg extension. Like, that is the dream. Because you can kind of get up whenever, but you're laying back. It's the best of every world. Like, that's the goal to me. So. However, whatever your vibe, Wayfarer is every style for every home. They've got all your home essentials, storage solutions, decor, and more all in one place. I use Wayfair. So Jackie and I, we got a rug, and I'm not going to lie, I realized that Big Lebowski, they were right, like, the right room. The right rug really does bring the whole room together. It's so nice to walk on. I just. It's the nicest rug I've ever owned, and I didn't realize how much that would bring me joy. Maybe I'm just getting older in life, but I didn't realize that a really, really, really nice area rug just would bring me a ton of joy. But it does get inspired with room ideas and easy to shop collections, all with everyday ways to save, shop everything home@wayfair.com with free and easy delivery straight to your door. That's W a Y F A I R.com Wayfair Every style, every home.
- [35:37]
C
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- [35:47]
A
Next tier here. This one, I, I kind of just labeled it as like obvious upside with obvious flaws. And it's just kind of the rest of the guys that would be starting tight end. So I have Travis Kelce for the Chiefs who the upside is he's Travis Kelce. The downside is Travis Kelce is 36 and if the Chiefs won the super bowl, he was definitely going to retire. And then I have David and Joku as our number eight tight end who legit top tier tight end at times, but also he plays on the Browns. And then number nine, I have Evan Ingram, who two years ago had the second most catches ever for a tight end at the time, but then also.
- [36:16]
B
114 catches, second most quietest 114 catch season from a tight end I can remember.
- [36:22]
A
And yet he's 30, just had the worst season of his career. Sean, we don't exactly know what's going to go on there. And then I have Tucker Craft for the packers, who's probably genuinely one of the best all around tight ends. He's probably a top five, top six all around tight end in the blocking, receiving, everything. And yet the packers are just a weird team because Matt LaFleur is not. You know, we would say Mike McDaniel's like a pass it to the Italians coach, where he's like, I'm going to get my best players the ball and figure out how. And Matt LaFleur is the opposite end of the spectrum where the packers are just like, we're going to outrun, we're going to get people open and like no one's necessarily getting a huge percentage of the offense. So I have all those guys in one group. That's Tucker Kraft on Green Bay, Evan Ingram on Denver, David and Joko on the Browns, and Travis Kelsey at the Chiefs. Is that the same group you guys had? Craig, you're nodding.
- [37:01]
C
I have the exact same tier.
- [37:02]
B
Yes. I am getting a little bold here. And I have Colston Loveland in this tier.
- [37:09]
C
Really?
- [37:09]
A
I, I actually just changed my mind on Colson Loveland. Preparing for this episode. I have talked myself into Colson Loveland and then this week I was like, I am over my skis. I'm curious why you think Colson Loveland should be in this tier.
- [37:22]
B
I mean, look where. Where is he on our rankings right now? It's not like it's a huge opportunity cost where you're drafting him. I'm just like. I really like the upside.
- [37:30]
C
I didn't even have him in the next tier. Is that bad?
- [37:33]
B
I don't know if it's bad necessarily. I'm probably like above consensus on him, but I'm just kind of excited about what he's going to do in this. In this offense. There's already kind of. I don't know if a drumbeat necessarily quite yet, but there is. There has been quite a bit of hype coming out of training camp. He's already running with the ones. Seems like he's having really good days. His shoulder's doing great, apparently, according to all reports I've seen, which.
- [37:55]
A
Which was immob realized when we saw him, right.
- [37:57]
B
He's coming off of a shoulder injury.
- [37:58]
A
So that's, you know.
- [38:02]
C
Great. I don't know.
- [38:02]
A
The shoulder that was not able to move.
- [38:04]
C
It sounds like I asked like, dj dk, how's your uncle doing? He's doing great. Shoulders, shoulder's doing great.
- [38:09]
B
The nail comes out next week. I don't know, maybe I. Like I said, maybe I'm over my skis a little bit on this, but. Because I think you could take Jake Ferguson and feel pretty good about it. He's another guy that Deck Prescott always likes to target his tight ends. Jake Ferguson just got a big contract. I'm pretty out on Tucker Kraft. I. It's not that I don't think he's a good player, but like, Tucker Craft did what he did last year and it was inconsistent and, you know, unreliable weekend. And now. And now they're getting Luke Musgrave and Matthew golden into that offense. I'm like, no, thanks. I just don't want to have to like, you know, it's just going to be back and forth. Who. Who's going to be the number one target in this offense any given week. Um, and then I think I. So, so basically maybe it's just like I, you know, there's a classic thing like anybody but one of these annoying guys, like the new shiny toy is what. What you gravitate, gravitate to. But I'm like, in that group, I'd rather have like Tyler Warren or course Colson level and just hope one of those guys, like, is awesome stress.
- [39:09]
A
I think there's a bigger gap in how you guys have ranked like Craig and dk. You guys have a bigger gap on ranking Colson Loveland than any single player in our entire rankings. Like, to be clear about this, DK, you have him as a top 100 player.
- [39:21]
B
Yeah.
- [39:21]
A
Craig basically is like, I don't even know if I draft, draft Coulson Loveland, you have like 160th. I think both of you are pretty fucking extreme. I have temperature myself to 126 for Colson Loveland over.
- [39:32]
C
Yeah, maybe I should be closer to.
- [39:33]
A
That, But I think YouTube meeting in the middle will be super chill because the. Here's where I've come to with Colson Loveland and the trap I realized, I fell into and I realized like two days ago, I was like, this is what I've been thinking. And to a degree this is true. Ben Johnson was the offensive coordinator in Detroit, and under Ben Johnson, Sam LaPorta as a rookie tight end out of Iowa. Sam LaPorta caught 10 touchdowns his rookie year. One of like literally five useful rookie tight end seasons over the last 15 years. Ben Johnson coaxed that out of Sam LaPorta. Now Colson Loveland has been drafted really high. Colson Lofton drafted as a top 12 pick in the NFL draft. And so Colson Loveland will probably be the same LaPorta role, kind of similar guy. And Ben Johnson is the head coach in Chicago. Maybe Colson Loveland could have 10 touchdowns as a rookie.
- [40:17]
B
Dude, he was the 10th pick.
- [40:19]
A
He was the 10th pick.
- [40:20]
B
It's crazy to think about that. I mean, I, I not. I wasn't even that high on him like in the draft. But I mean, the 10th pick, that's pretty crazy.
- [40:27]
C
Like, just wait till we get to Kyle Pitts. Wait till you find that when he was drafted.
- [40:31]
A
But here's the thing, dk, I think the I, this is what I realized. The argument for Colson Loveland being Sam LaPorta, it really banks on the 10 touchdowns, doesn't it? Like, it really banks on the 10 touchdown, I think. And here's what I realized, and this is the epiphany I had this week. I think that sometimes in fantasy we get confused because I think that's accurate. Ben Johnson will use Cos and Loveland in the Sam LaPorta role. I think that's probably accurate. The Sam LaPorta role in Chicago is not going to be a fraction as valuable or it will literally be a fraction as valuable as in Detroit. Because the year Sam Laporte had 10 touchdowns, the Lions were third in scoring. The Lions had the second most passing the entire NFL that year. Literally that year that Sam Laport had 10 touchdowns, the Lions had 4,500 passing yards. The Bears have literally never had a quarterback hit 4,500 passing yards in the history of the franchise. And they're like the oldest team in the NFL. The Bears have been around a hundred years. The Bears invented quarterback. The position was invented by the Bears. They've never had 4,000 yards in a season. So I think what I realized was if, if Ben Johnson makes Chicago average this year, that would be like an incredible leap forward for this unit. And I realized that that is actually Colson Loveland ceiling to me as he's the third option between behind DG Moore and Adunze on hopefully an average offense.
- [41:48]
C
I mean add in Luther Burden and Cole Comet. Do you want to talk you're worried about Tucker Craft's role? There's a lot going on in Chicago and we don't even know if Chicago's good. We at least know Green Bay's a.
- [41:57]
A
Good offense sense and so I think you're and so overall though, DK I do agree, I do agree that I think Loveland's an interesting dart throw, but I think the top taking him is like, I think he's kind of going. I think he's kind of going where Brock Bowers was going last year. And like Brock Bowers is like the best college tight end. I, I mean that's fair.
- [42:12]
B
He was also taken earlier in the draft than Brock Bowers for what it's worth.
- [42:15]
A
Not, not a lot.
- [42:16]
B
But I, I just, yeah, I'm probably over my skis on it on this guy.
- [42:20]
C
But I, I, where I agree with you is like long term, like if you're playing in a dynasty league. I think Colson Loveland is a fantastic pick and I do think sometimes it's hard not to get a little prematurely excited about a guy you know is talented on a team you think will be good for a guy who you like feel very confident will have a fantastic career and you're just like I wanted to start right now. But tight end historically it's like there have been these pops. BROCK Bowers and LaPorta is pretty rare.
- [42:47]
A
And so but the, but here's the thing. I'm also talk Annabelle says in my mouth because I'm higher on D than DK and Tyler Warren, the tight end of Penn State who went to the Colts, I'm higher on than DK on him and I'm probably too high. But I actually think if there's a player that's going to lead the team in targets or catches, whatever. I kind of think Tyler Warren has a chance to just be better than Michael Pittman or Josh Downs as the number one.
- [43:06]
B
Michael Pittman nursing an injury. Right.
- [43:08]
C
That guy's always hurt.
- [43:09]
A
Michael Pittman kind of always hurt.
- [43:10]
B
That sucks.
- [43:11]
A
Josh Downs is 5 foot 8 and I'm looking at. And I think Tyler dang.
- [43:15]
C
Drive by.
- [43:16]
A
Sorry. It's the fucking NFL.
- [43:18]
C
Is he five eight?
- [43:19]
A
No, I think I was pretty sure. No, I think he's 5 to 10.
- [43:23]
C
That's such classic. Like you're trying to lead people.
- [43:26]
B
5 9, 1, 71 is like 55 or something.
- [43:30]
C
So he's irrelevant.
- [43:31]
A
We should we have that as a filter on our rankings next year. Just have like height like hinge and you can just sort out people who are under five.
- [43:37]
C
I mean it's just like real life. Like when whenever you're trying to convince somebody something, you add an inch or subtract an inch to support your argument.
- [43:42]
A
It the In England we were talking about how in the people with the metric system the number was, what is it, 175. Yeah. Senate centimeters or whatever. Yeah. I don't remember. But their number is a little different. Like 510.
- [43:55]
C
Right.
- [43:55]
A
Because she's 175 or so. I forget what it is. Anyway, so on the tight ends thing, I have a lot of thoughts on Tyler Warren, but I getting back to this. Well, just to button up the Tyler Warren thing, I, I, I think I like the dart throw. Tyler Warren not in this tier, but I like the dart throw. And Tyler Warren just because quietly one of the most prolific tight ends ever. And I think people think he's a blocking guy because he could. He has long hair like George Kittle, but he's not. He's, I mean, Tyler Warren, I think is going to be a great receiver. So anyway, I don't think they belong in this tier though. I think Kelsey and Joku Angrim. Craft. Dk. If I made you pick one of these guys at cost, who are you picking? Clearly not Craft. You hate him.
- [44:29]
B
Sorry. Say the list. Say the list again.
- [44:31]
A
So we have Travis Kelsey around 87th. We have David and Joku 93rd. Evan Ingram 95th. Tucker Craft, 105. You clearly hate Tucker Craft and.
- [44:38]
B
Well, I don't hate Tucker.
- [44:40]
A
You hate him. You hate his fucking.
- [44:42]
B
The packers offense burned me last year in terms of just like, you know who's going to.
- [44:47]
A
But Jordan Love hurt his MCL in week one and then they had like the lowest pass rate in the entire NFL.
- [44:51]
C
He got hurt again week 10 he hurt his groin.
- [44:54]
B
Doesn't change the fact that none of the receivers on the team had more than like 18% target rate. Like it's just not consistent. It's not reliable week in and week out. It's just really frustrating from a fantasy point of view. Good offense though and I think Jordan good quarterback. What do you finish middle of the pack anyway?
- [45:09]
C
Yeah, I think I'll take the guy on the Browns.
- [45:13]
B
I don't know of that group high Fitz. I I guess I gravitate to Njoku because if Joe Flacco starts he could be the tight end one. I don't know. You know what I mean?
- [45:24]
A
Like yeah, I dude the ultimate arrested development of just the you know it's never worked for anyone but it could work for us. You're like, oh yeah, take players in good teams. I'll take a joker though. Brown's gonna be the worst team in football. I will say the fact that David and Joe could five games with Joe Flacco two years ago was just the number one tight end in fantasy for that stretch. Especially considering how much the Browns offense was contorted to fit to Sean Watson where Stefanski wants this like under center play action back to the defense and Deshaun Watson, it's one of those like I you know he wanted, he wanted to see the just wasn't able to play that way. Also just unbelievable that he's just been exiled like a pariah with multiple Achilles injuries and he's just like not even at the building anymore. And so now you have Joe Flacco again running a real Estafansky offense. But even last year I kind of couldn't I almost for memory hold this where after Deshaun Watson had the Achilles injury so just the second half of the season David and Joker was just straight up a top five tight end. The top five tight end second half of the year was just Trey McBride, Brock Bowers, George John who Smith actually and George Kittle and then David and joke was five and I'm like I, I don't yeah I, I, I, I agree with you. I would take in Joker at all these guys. I think a joker at cost is probably the best value value at a because someone's going to take Kelsey really high. Someone's going to take Kelsey like he didn't want to retire this year and in Joker people are like yeah, Brown suck. But I, I agree. I think a joke actually probably is the most upside.
- [46:38]
C
What was the stat you gave Heifetz about top PIM being top five. Was that the second half of the season?
- [46:44]
A
That was so Deshaun Watson tours so remember the the first seven weeks to Sean Watson they were the worst offense in Brown's history which is incredible. Like think of all the bad quarterbacking Watson's first seven games. The worst quarterbacking ever.
- [46:55]
B
This is a wild stat.
- [46:57]
A
Austin Gale who we remember had the most incredible stats on this and Austin Deshaun Watson was the worst quarterback basically since like Tim Tebow or Jamarcus Russell. The first seven games it was un like unplayable. And then Shawn Watson towards Achilles after.
- [47:14]
B
That And Joe what week did he.
- [47:17]
A
Tear Z Achilles I believe week seven.
- [47:19]
C
You don't even have just straight up he was fifth. Like if you include the games with Deshaun Watson he was David and Joku is still fifth last year.
- [47:27]
A
There you go.
- [47:28]
B
I kind of think I'm looking at his numbers now because this does get memory hold a little bit. I kind of feel like I don't remember this a ton. I'm just going to here's his half PBR points per game after week seven. 18, 14, 5, 14, 3, 21, 13, 10 like he is. He was putting up big numbers for a tight end in particular. I kind of feel like and this is how I had it and why I said I gravitate to him but I had him in his own tier slightly above Kelsey Ingram and then I had some other guys in my tier but that Kelsey Ingram sort of the veteran guys that have done it before tier. And and another reason that I really like him too is just because and he's kind of like Ingram is like there's a lot of catch and fall down tight ends like and those guys will get like Zachary. He'll get you points because he's always getting open but he's not going to add a bunch after the catch and Joku is really good after the catch. He's almost like I went he he's not in Kittle's tier but he's sort of just below that in terms of his ability to run after catch break tackles.
- [48:26]
A
Not a lumbering place.
- [48:28]
B
Not a lumbering oaf unlike Travis Kelsey.
- [48:30]
A
Now Lumber.
- [48:31]
B
How old is njoku?
- [48:32]
C
He's like 30. This is like his ninth or 10th season.
- [48:35]
A
He was drafted in 29. The Browns had three first round picks in 2017. 2018. He was the baker year dude.
- [48:41]
B
He was drafted in 2017. That's wild.
- [48:43]
A
Yeah.
- [48:44]
B
And he's 29. Anyway I just kind of I think gravitate To Njoku. The Browns offense is a mess, but I don't know beggars.
- [48:53]
A
So in. So in four months, Craig, I've just come from the future. Do you think that you're either going to feel really smart for plugging David and Joku as a good tight end over Travis Kelsey, or do you think you're going to feel really dumb where you're like, take the guy on the Browns overtake the guy on the Chiefs.
- [49:08]
C
Who knows, Patrick Bombs, probably dumb. I don't want to watch the Browns. I don't want anything to do with the Browns. I don't want to have to root for the Browns and root for anybody on the Browns to play well. It just sounds awful. They're going to. They're projected to score the least points in the league.
- [49:21]
A
It's just when you say it like that, I'm like, Kelsey, meanwhile, Kelsey Miscast is the number one guy on the Chief's offense last year. But if the Chiefs offense overall is better and then Kelsey's job is to just like sit in zones as Xavier Worthy and Marquis Brown and Rice stretch the field. You're like, he doesn't need to have 1400 yards again for Kelsey. You just need him to like eke out 11 touchdowns and you're like golden. And you're like, yeah, he's Travis Kelsey. Of course he can. He can get open in the end zone.
- [49:45]
C
Yeah, I mean, she Rice also like might miss the first six games of the season. And look, Kelsey's obviously not the same guy. He was fourth in targets per game last year. Like there's still.
- [49:54]
A
And that's the thing is you're. But you're getting him later than he's ever gone basically in 10 years. So that's the thing with Kelsey. It's like he's the same guy, but it's not the same price.
- [50:00]
B
I was going to mention Kelsey, though slow and dangerous behind the wheel, he can still serve a purpose. I think there's kind of this impression that Kelsey is just not a part of their offense anymore and he just kind of like a forgotten piece. He's just there for vibes and everything. But he ran a route on 95% of the team's dropbacks last year, which is like a really good number. Not. Not elite, but a really solid, solid number. Not like they were, you know, quote unquote, saving him for the playoffs.
- [50:26]
A
You and your fancy. How many yards he. How many times he ran a route? Here's an old school stat for you. He was 12th in catches in the entire league. Yeah, he had 97, 97 catches. He had like 91 catch less than DJ Moore. Literally.
- [50:41]
B
Basically the reason he wasn't a superstar in fantasy was because he only had three touchdowns. And if you look at the last like seven seasons before for that, 5, 12, 9, 11, 5, 10, 8, like maybe this year he just goes back up to 10. Like, it wouldn't be that surprising to see him catch a bunch of touchdowns this year again.
- [50:57]
A
He was, he's, he's older, he's washed. But like, I mean, he knows. I also think I also not washed.
- [51:03]
B
Slow and dangerous behind the wheel.
- [51:04]
A
I think he's also probably lost a little weight this year. And I don't mean that like he was fat, but I think older. What happens with older players is you have to cut weight as you get older for your knees, your joints, like, your knees, your ankles, everything just kind of like that's. You have to have muscle in your 20s and then you kind of have to cut it a little to maintain any kind of speed just. Or else you start picking up and accruing lower body injuries. And so I think based on his Instagrams with Taylor Swift, I do think he actually has cut a little muscle.
- [51:29]
B
I want to, I want to throw a stat at you guys just because I pulled this up. We were talking about David and Joku after week seven. So from week seven to week 17, so week seven on, David and Joku averaged 12.8 points per game in fantasy. Brock Bowers 12.9 points per game in fantasy in that stretch. So I, I just think it's like the impress. Like, obviously we love Bowers. Bowers is a freak and we're going to go all in. I'm going all in on Bowers. But like, Njoka does kind of feel.
- [51:58]
A
Like I've forgotten these other conversations where we look back and we're like, we sound so smart right now and then we're talking and then we like look back and we're like, damn, we've been on the Raiders and Browns tight ends. What the. Right.
- [52:10]
C
It's week three and Dylan Gabriel's back there just seeing ghost and you're like, this is.
- [52:15]
A
That's the thing of the joke. Yeah, we like Joe. Is Joe Flacco really going to be quarterback for this team? Because the whole point to that is the last thing on a joke. I think you're right, dk. I like him the most. But to your point, the entire thing is premise that Joe Flacco is going to stand in the pocket and get the ball out quick. And the Craig's point, Dylan Gabriel, who is actually like 5 foot 9 out of 5 foot 10, 11. I guess I'm biased against the under 6 foot quarterbacks but like he's 5 foot 10 quarterback, going to just be running for his life, not throwing to David and Joku whenever he plays the next tier here I have. Unless anyone else has thoughts of those guys. No, I called this. I mixed everyone together and I called it thirst traps and family men. Which is maybe that's a little convoluted but I think these are crazy high upside tight ends that have crazy high upsides and crazy high downsides. And it's like you look at them and you get, you know, kind of horny and you're like, oh my God, Kyle Pitts, Dalton Kincaid, Tyler Warren, Colson, Loveland. What if these guys were great? And then like you're going to get post game clarity when they have two catches for 20 yards and you're like an idiot. And it's all guys like that. And then also just guys like Dallas Goddard or Jake Ferguson where just family, like go home to your wife guys where it's just right, perfect. There's no chance they're going to be the number one tight end in fantasy but like probably you won't have to cut them and replace them. So I had this entire tier as Jake tight end.
- [53:33]
B
10.
- [53:34]
A
Yeah, exactly. Like oh wow. Tight and eight.
- [53:36]
B
Cool.
- [53:36]
A
Like small misses, small small hits and then big misses, big hits. So it's Jake Ferguson for Dallas, Colston Loveland for the Bears who's a thirst trap. Dalton Kincaid for the Bills was a thirst trap. Dallas got it for the Eagles who's you know, family guy. Carol Pitts for the Falcons, Tyler Warren for the Colts. I had them as one. I didn't know how to like they shouldn't all be together, but we are ranking them that way. And I think that it's almost philosophical of like what should you be doing at that spot? Should you be trying to hit home run or should you just be like, you know, collecting someone you don't have to think about.
- [54:06]
C
I think when you're this late, you should always be going for the home run. Like you can find a guy. You can add Breton Strange in week six and he'll probably get you nine points in any given week. Like you should honestly be shooting for dudes like as it pains me to say it, but like Kyle Pitts or like Dalton Kincaid who's like a high draft pick on an offense that doesn't have a star. It's year three. He's underperformed the first two years. But like that. As opposed to somebody like Jake Ferguson who is going to be like the number three option on a good offense who will get you like five catches, 50 yards. Like the. Like. There's. There's no world in which Jake Ferguson has like 90 catches for 1200 yards and nine touchdowns. In theory, Kyle Pitts and Dalton Kincaid are. That's more possible. So I feel like when you're in this range, you gotta just start shooting for first.
- [54:51]
A
So. Dk, do you agree that the thirst traps, even though they will probably all individually fail, the thirst trap should probably just be 11, 12, 13, where it's like in whatever order you want. Kyle Pitts, Dalton Kincaid, Tyler Warren, Colson Loveland, in whatever order you want. Just because if they hit, it's a huge hit. Give me one of them big ones in tight end.
- [55:06]
C
Give you.
- [55:07]
B
I. I like to go for the different. The potential difference maker here rather than like the floor option. Right.
- [55:13]
A
Yeah.
- [55:14]
B
And I. Yeah, so I agree with everything that Craig just said there.
- [55:18]
A
So there you go. So ba. So I. Yeah, I agree. So. So Loveland can. So if I made you pick. We talked earlier about Colson Loveland, Tyler Warren. I. If I had to pick one, I would actually. I think, actually at this point, I think Tyler Warren is the guy just because I think there's a better chance Tyler Warren just that even the Colts suck a number one title. Number one option being on the table, I think is something I want. If I made you pick dk, between at cost and we have them overall, we have Kyle Pitts, the bane of our existence, 126th overall. And we have Dalton Kincaid, like 119th overall, which at that point, whatever. It's also July 30th. It'll move if I made you pick, like, hey, you're gonna draft one of those guys, stick them in your LineUp in week one. Which one of those guys actually do you want to. Not week one. That's not the point. Which one did you actually want to bet on this season, Kincaid or Pitts?
- [56:08]
B
Kincaid. Even though you guys are definitely like starting to convince me a little bit on pits, I just, again, don't want to go down that road again. Kaden Pitts have some similarities to them because they're both, I think, limited. They're schematically limiting the play callers that they play for, even though the teams that they, you know, play for chose them very, very highly. A lot of times it's like, maybe there's a disconnect between front office and head coach or play caller. Maybe there's play callers that come in and change. Like you could change the offense, maybe just the play call. This is like the Arthur Smith thing. Just doesn't think he's any good and maybe he's not any good. So I don't know. I think with, with Kincaid, he's such a poor blocker to this point in his career that he's limiting schematically.
- [56:57]
A
Plus, I can't stress that enough, he was drafted so the Bills could run out two more tight end sets and run more, and they've been able to do that. But Kincaid is not helped. Like, he hasn't unlocked the receiving game the way they thought he would.
- [57:07]
B
Right. And. But at the same time, I still believe in his talent. I think he's just been. He's been. He's had a lot of injuries that have kind of held him back. And so my hope is still, and I don't have like, really high hopes for this, but I do have kind of, you know, just holding, keeping the candle burning a little bit for Kincaid that he can stay healthy and start to show, you know, some of the reasons that they drafted him that highly. And with Kyle Pitts, it's just like, yeah, that'd be great if he did it, but I'm not going to. I don't want to bet on that again this year.
- [57:33]
A
And just worth noting. So it's. We're recording this Wednesday, July 30, maybe some, but Kincaid did tweak his knee a couple of days ago and he had a knee injury last year.
- [57:40]
B
Come on.
- [57:41]
A
So it's probably just.
- [57:42]
C
I didn't see this.
- [57:43]
B
That that makes me.
- [57:44]
A
Well, Kyle Pitzel said a foot thing in June. Like, you know, there's a reason that these guys are freaking headaches. But to, to.
- [57:49]
C
To DK's point about Kincaid, before the injury, he was like, it was starting to come together a little bit. Like he was on pace for 102 targets, which would have been like fifth amongst all tight ends. He was eighth in usage. So like. And then he got hurt and then things got weird. But like, you know, he. On a more traditional trajectory of how long it takes tight ends to take off. Like, perhaps he was on his way. The argument against him is like the Bills were the number one offense. I think they scored the most points last year in the league. And so it's like, it almost like they're fine the way things are now.
- [58:27]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [58:28]
C
And so I. I think he kind.
- [58:29]
B
Of got market Corrected by Khalil Khalil Shakira. Yeah.
- [58:32]
C
Who they just pay.
- [58:34]
A
The argument for Kincaid to be as simple which is the Bills are kind of banged up. And again, I don't want to speculate too much because this. We're going to release this episode five days from now. But like, I mean the bill is open camp with a bunch of five receivers and two tight ends banged up. They're like the 49ers of the east where it's just like everyone. I don't even know who Josh Allen was throwing to on the first two days of camp. So I, you know, we'll see.
- [58:51]
C
You know, he was throwing to who? We haven't talked about Josh Palmer.
- [58:55]
A
Josh Palmer.
- [58:56]
C
Can I read a couple quotes about JP In Buffalo?
- [59:00]
A
Sure, go ahead.
- [59:01]
C
Has been a magnet for Josh Allen early in camp. Early indications are he'll be a staple on offense and could be sneaky candidate to lead the wide receiver room in snaps. Dk, let me ask you a question. How. How old do you think Josh Palmer is? Just knee jerk. How old is he?
- [59:17]
B
25.
- [59:18]
C
You're right. He's 25 years old.
- [59:21]
B
Josh Palmer going into the prime of his career.
- [59:24]
C
He is just saying get the fuck out. I'm just saying.
- [59:30]
B
No, this is funny because I like love Shakir too. Like he's so fun to watch.
- [59:36]
A
The Bill.
- [59:36]
C
A report. A report today. Hold on. This is from a Bills reporter. Josh Palmer has made quite the impression during his time with the Bills. Cerebral player, somebody who seems to take pride in every rep he takes. Think this is the guy who can help carry this entire past catching group to greater heights.
- [59:50]
B
Wow.
- [59:51]
A
Cerebral is what people say when they're like, they. They like him personally but don't have anything to say about his profile.
- [59:57]
B
Yeah. Okay.
- [59:59]
A
The. I will say though, I do want to just say I know Kyle Pitts. I know. I feel I'm like a caricature now where I'm like talking about Kyle Pitts and Anthony Richardson, his values this year. But on it, Kyle Pitts is another by the dip guy because again we're talking about 125th, 130th overall. These are also guys that like you might cut.
- [60:16]
C
Look, Pitts is the guy to draft in the later rounds. He is the guy. It is Tyler, Warren, Colson, Loveland and Kyle Pitts.
- [60:23]
A
And here's why. Kyle Pitts. There's overlapping reasons why he could. And again, if Kyle Pitts starts the year and sucks, that's Fine, Cut him. Like when he was going really high, like 80th last year. That kind of sucked. If he had to cut him cowpets. The difference is he's going 40 spots later than you could have got him last year. And yet it's a better situation because Michael Penix just rips the ball, man. Michael Penix does it so far. Michael Penck is grip and rip it. Like, the only guy that threw it further downfield than Penix last year was Anthony Richardson, who was crazy irresponsibly throwing it deep. Penix supported in college. I mean, he was ripping the ball downfield to a DunesDay. And Jalen McMillan and Jalen Pope, like Penix fucking tosses it around the yard at Kyle Pitts. That's actually kind of been. The problem is Kyle Pitts isn't really a tight end. He's a big receiver who kind of has just been kind of doing wind sprints. He runs downfield. He's running deep. But like Kyle the one. The thing I'll say about Kyle Pitts, again, I think that there are questions not about professionalism, maturity, but like, kind of. And I think, frankly, I don't know if he. Between rehab, injuries, all these things like rehabilitation. Not like he went to rehab or anything, but I'm just saying.
- [61:24]
B
Sure, Injury rehab, yeah.
- [61:25]
A
He's just like, whatever. Yeah. No, not saying, but I think we're saving a cow.
- [61:32]
B
You guys don't remember that? From what, Eastbounding down he goes. Rehab. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I hurt my nose.
- [61:45]
A
So good. Show's incredible. Shout out to that bar in Fort Myers where the show is just playing in a loop in a bathroom at all times. Kyle Pitts is in a contract year. And again, not everyone loves football, but a lot of people like money, so that's always motivating the quarterbacks. We never talk about Kyle Pitts this way. I'm not making excuses. He has sucked. He has been a problem, but he has. He did play with Marcus Mariota the year he literally quit on the team. Desmond Ritter, when Arthur Smith has a passion project to make Desmond Ritter the quarterback. Kirk Cousins, who actually made Kyle Pitts a top four tight end for October last year. And then Kirk Cousins got injured and was unable to move or throw to his right for like an entire month. And so you have Kirk Cousins off the Achilles, Ritter, Mariota, and then was Taylor Heinecke playing for, like, the quarterback. Quietly been horrific. Now he gets Michael Penix pushing it deep into. That's kind of like what Kyle Pitts is going to be better at is explosive plays.
- [62:40]
B
So man, I hope, man, I hope Penix is good.
- [62:44]
A
I'm just saying that would be so.
- [62:45]
B
Much fun if Pennix is good.
- [62:46]
A
The best quarterback situation Pitts has ever had probably, but it's the cheapest he's ever been in a contract year. I. At the very least, I think Pitts himself is probably going to need to stat Chase because he's probably got like a $50 million difference in whatever his next contract would be riding on whether he actually can flash something this year. So I think he's clearly the guy. And again, this is the best.
- [63:07]
B
I can't believe we're doing a blast.
- [63:09]
C
Every episode we have in like a 10 minute Kyle Pitts conversation. I love.
- [63:12]
A
I think Kyle Pitts is. He's kind of like that, like Toxic X where you, your friends want you to stop talking to her, but you're just, you know what I mean? There's just like you can't, you can't quit each other. You're bad for each other. I think that's what he is.
- [63:23]
B
It's just crazy chemistry between me and Kyle Pitts.
- [63:27]
A
Yeah, she does something to me, man.
- [63:30]
C
Ben Affleck just keeps going back for Jennifer Lopez. You're like, maybe I'm a little crazy. Maybe it'll work this time. You know what I mean?
- [63:36]
A
Carpets of shine in the town.
- [63:39]
C
Oh, yeah.
- [63:40]
A
Oh my God. Okay, any other guys about the. So we're creating anything else with thirst trapped. The thirst trapped here it's Pitts, Kincaid, Warren and Loveland. The guys who definitely won't work but we'll convince ourselves.
- [63:51]
B
What are we doing with Johnny Smith? Nah, I think John Smith is off the radar now.
- [63:56]
A
Well, it's. So the next group here you got like Jake Ferguson, Goddard, Breton, stranger, Jonah Smith who's a top four tight end last year if he was in Miami, I think Miami's probably one of the three best situations he could have been in. Still one of the three worst because now he's like splitting time at tight end with Pat Friarmouth. The Steelers want to run the ball. He's got to earn Aaron Rodgers's trust. You're basically counting that Jonathan Smith will get screens designed for him with yards after the catch. But I'm like, well, that's what happened last year. Yeah, but like it's Mike McDaniels designing screens versus Arthur Smith. I don't know. I mean, Jonasmith could be. I think he's serviceable if you want to bet on him. Like Jonas Smith there was he's a.
- [64:33]
B
Flyer you can Tucker Henry. Yeah.
- [64:35]
A
These are guys you could just have on your bench or like depending on deep your league is. You can just add them like John Smith, Hunter Henry, Jake Ferguson, Dallas Goddard. Like, you know, can I throw out.
- [64:44]
B
A guy that's getting some hype in my neck of the woods right now? That is a very deep cut. What you call. What say are you calling it? The thirst trap? There's a thirst trap happening right now in my neck of the woods with Elijah Arroyo, Seahawks tight end, who by the way, we didn't mention it, but no fan unceremoniously released from the Seahawks. And the way that they were talking about him in post draft. So they were talking about Arroyo post draft and they basically were like, this guy can play X for us. He's a. He's essentially a receiver. And everything that you're hearing out of Seahawks training camp so far is that he's lighting it up. So just putting it on your radar.
- [65:22]
A
Is that because he's running next to Curly cup and they can't believe how fast he looks next to Cooper Cup? Maybe it's just Cooper Cup's really slow.
- [65:28]
B
You're making my point here, dk. Do you think Elijah Roy washed?
- [65:32]
C
Is he good enough to where like you should be spending the last pick in your draft on him or no?
- [65:37]
B
I think it's worth a flyer on him. Sure. I don't think you should bank on him being the starter for you.
- [65:42]
A
You would draft Elijah Roy or are you saying you would add him if he your last point?
- [65:45]
B
Sure. Yeah.
- [65:47]
A
But. But we, but that's a big difference.
- [65:49]
C
Like is it, is it worth holding on to him for like the first month of the season because he might become a star in the offense.
- [65:57]
A
To be clear, the guys you drafted him over, you're talking about like Roshan Johnson might be the last pick of your draft. Ray Davis for the Bills might be the last pick of your draft. Like Isaac Rando, lottery ticket type picks. Yeah, but I'd rather have those guys. So, I mean, it's fine.
- [66:09]
B
You. I'm gonna. I'm gonna take Arroyo and you guys can take Ray Davis and then we'll move on with our lives.
- [66:15]
C
I'm taking Darren Waller.
- [66:16]
B
Just throwing his name out there.
- [66:17]
C
I'm playing chess. You guys are playing checkers. Darren Waller's back.
- [66:20]
B
Is he even on the field yet?
- [66:22]
C
I don't.
- [66:23]
B
I don't know, dude.
- [66:25]
A
I almost can't.
- [66:26]
B
I think he's on the nfi.
- [66:27]
A
The music. The music video. Darren Waller returned. I I can't. So Darren Waller, he's on the Dolphins now after the Dolphins traded Jonah Smith, which really, we should just talk about the John. The Darren Waller music video all over again where Kelsey Plum just ruined him. And then he made the music video.
- [66:41]
B
That was a tough look.
- [66:42]
A
And he's dead on the beach in the music video. But clearly just the water was hitting his face and he's just like.
- [66:49]
C
That was definitely made by like some like, college film student who like, got paid like 500 bucks.
- [66:58]
B
That's who got paid like 500 bucks. I don't know why that's so funny.
- [67:06]
A
So Arroyo's DK's random tight end who he thinks actually will be serviceable. I feel like I did not say that.
- [67:12]
B
I said there's a.
- [67:13]
C
He's a lottery ticket. Taking Elijah royo fringe top 10.
- [67:17]
A
Can I throw out a couple hours?
- [67:18]
C
Can I throw out a couple late round dudes I'm interested in, please. Chig.
- [67:23]
A
Chig.
- [67:23]
C
With Cam Ward in Tennessee, he's another. Like, we're waiting. We're waiting for this to happen. He kind of started to happen at the end of last year.
- [67:29]
A
I have a tight end on my forehead that just says, chig Okonkwo cannot catch a football.
- [67:34]
C
I'm thinking about Chig better.
- [67:35]
B
You can improve at things he can't catch.
- [67:38]
C
And then the last guy I want to mention is the rookie in New York, Mason Taylor on the jets hall of Fame bloodlines. Hall of Fame bloodlines. Looks like already he's like going to be the starter. Not that he had a crazy competition with Jeremy Ruckert and Stone Smart, but all the reports out of camper that he is like a professional, knows what he's doing, does not make mental mistakes, incredibly reliable. He was a second round pick in the draft. Outside of Garrett Wilson, they have Josh Reynolds and Alan Lazard. There is no tight end competition.
- [68:09]
B
You know, I like this Craig. I like this one.
- [68:11]
C
I just think it's somebody to keep an eye on.
- [68:13]
B
Would you use the last pick of the draft on this guy?
- [68:15]
C
Probably not. Probably not.
- [68:17]
A
What do we. Well, I think that it's important to have like, if they were good, it might mean something because here the one. It's weird because Taylor rookie tight ends almost never do anything right. There have been five relevant rookie tight end seasons basically in the last 15 years. And it's. You can count. It was Brock Bowers last year again, Brock Bowers, best tight end prospect probably ever. Kyle Pitts was up there. Kyle Pitts had a thousand yards as A rookie Sam laporta, who had 10 touchdowns. And other than that it's like Evan Ingram randomly and then honestly it's Gronk and Aaron Hernandez, which is always awkward.
- [68:44]
B
But it's happening more often. More lately it is happening more often.
- [68:47]
A
But even more often is one guy a year. And they were all first round picks for the most part. And so on one hand, true, but like the third pick of the second round. But like the.
- [68:58]
C
Okay, well that's still second round pick.
- [69:00]
A
Just saying the.
- [69:01]
B
However, when was Mason Taylor picked?
- [69:02]
C
Second round 50th.
- [69:06]
B
No, that was Arroyo. Oh wait, maybe it wasn't. So hold on now I got the point being.
- [69:11]
A
But the flip side though.
- [69:12]
C
42Nd. 42nd.
- [69:14]
A
But this was considered a good tight end class. That's the flip side though. It was considered a good tight end class just like last year's receiver class was considered a great receiver class. And guess what? They had a third of the best rookie receiver seasons we've ever seen in fantasy.
- [69:26]
C
Right?
- [69:26]
A
So I will say I generally think rookie tight ends are a terrible bet.
- [69:31]
B
T. Ferg Terence Ferguson.
- [69:32]
A
Well, yeah, that's the other guy where I'm like, but if tight end rookies are gonna hit in one year, like it would be this season, like I'm just saying it would be this year. I'm not.
- [69:40]
B
I mean, look, we're grasping at straws here. None of these guys are probably going to be doing.
- [69:43]
A
No, he's probably just one Brett and Strange and the Jaguars or some. All these guys. Hunter Henry for the Zachary.
- [69:48]
B
He's gonna score more points than any of these guys.
- [69:50]
A
Hunter Henry Henry on a Patriots team is probably just gonna outscore everyone we've talked about.
- [69:54]
C
He's gonna be like the waivers king this year.
- [69:57]
B
Hunter Henry also, if T. Higgins gets hurt, you spend all your fab on Mike Kasicki.
- [70:03]
A
God, it's funny where they brought Mike.
- [70:06]
C
I hate talking about tight end. God damn it. Honestly, now I'm back. I'm like, take rock hours.
- [70:12]
A
God. Yeah, come all right. Yeah. Dick, after going through all this muck, should we. Is that the answer? Just take. Yeah, I think to take Bowers, take.
- [70:19]
B
One of the top three.
- [70:20]
C
I like the first like six or seven guys actually like after that it's a bloodbath death.
- [70:24]
B
I right, like I would.
- [70:27]
C
I would actually be fine with Mark Andrews or Sam LaPorta or TJ Hawkinson. But man, after that it gets bleak.
- [70:33]
B
It's just like when the chips are down because like the first couple days after your draft you're like, oh, my team feels pretty good. Colson Levin for my. For me is, oh, he's gonna go off and then he'll play like 30% of the snaps a week, like one target. Now I need to do something.
- [70:47]
A
Sometimes when you're depressed, you look back at your draft recap in your league and you're like, oh, my God, what could I have done? And you just see, like, oh, I took Marvin Harrison Jr. Over, like, George Kittle. Or you took, like, we took like.
- [70:57]
B
Oh, I hate doing that.
- [70:58]
A
Yeah. You're like, wow, I took Javante Williams over Brock Bowers last year. And you're like, oh, my God, like, I'm good. I could have just like that with.
- [71:04]
B
Any of this, dude. The dynasty, the one in dynasty that kills me every time I look at it is like, all the stupid players I took before Pukinakua. Oh, there's all going in, like, third.
- [71:15]
C
And fourth a Monroe St. Brown or something, if that.
- [71:17]
B
And I'm like. Like, I took some random guy, didn't even make the team.
- [71:22]
A
Justin Herbert went like, so late in so many Dynasty rookie drafts because, like, well, they were like. Well, he was quiet. Like, he was the. He was the fifth pick in the draft.
- [71:31]
B
Yeah.
- [71:32]
A
So sixth. Whatever. Okay.
- [71:35]
B
Yeah, Hindsight sucks.
- [71:36]
A
Yeah, hindsight's awful. Should get rid of it. Okay. You guys want to talk about.
- [71:41]
C
No.
- [71:42]
A
Yeah.
- [71:42]
B
I like content on the people on the Chargers.
- [71:45]
A
I like Tyler Conklin, actually. I actually. I actually. He's actually one of the guys that I would. I would be like, if he had a good week one, I'd believe it.
- [71:52]
C
Arande Gadson.
- [71:54]
B
I'm making some noise.
- [71:56]
A
I will say also, when. When Craig said Mason Taylor has NFL bloodlines, I think that we need a case of words that people. Oh. Oh, yeah.
- [72:03]
B
Should we not say that?
- [72:04]
A
That's just a list of words. We just need a list of words that people say when they don't really have a point, but they want to sound cool. And it's like, oh, cerebral player, NFL bloodlines. Like all his dad's Jason Taylor bloodlines. Just sounds cool, like, you know what you're doing.
- [72:17]
C
I like when a. A player comes from.
- [72:20]
B
He's also the nephew of. Of Zach Thomas.
- [72:22]
A
He is his sister. I know.
- [72:28]
B
Sorry.
- [72:28]
C
I like that his relatives played professional sports. Is that.
- [72:31]
B
No, they didn't play sports, Craig. They're in the hall of Fame.
- [72:33]
A
Right, I know, but bloodline is a word you use to, like, you're trying to invoke some, like, ancient. You know what I mean? You're like, bloodline sounds like Game of Thrones.
- [72:40]
B
Like.
- [72:40]
A
Oh, yeah.
- [72:41]
B
Hi, Fitz. You're the one who talks about McVeigh's grandfather being whatever he did. I can't even remember it matters.
- [72:48]
A
No, it matters.
- [72:48]
B
I just think bloodline Shanahan grew up around the game. I. I feel like growing up around the game and being on the sideline in locker rooms, like, all throughout your childhood. You know, it is such a cliche. I get that. But it's like, you know how to be a pro, and you have. You have all this information. You have all this information that most guys that are rookies do not have.
- [73:06]
A
Oh, 100% matters. I just think bloodline's a funny word.
- [73:09]
B
It is.
- [73:10]
C
Also, he's not related to Zach Thomas, right?
- [73:12]
A
No, Zach Thomas is. No, it's his uncle. Not by Jason Taylor. The doc married Zach Thomas's sister.
- [73:19]
C
Jason Taylor married Zach Thomas.
- [73:21]
A
The defensive end of the Dolphins married the middle linebacker's sister. Okay, so Zach Thomas is his uncle. And also, that's like Brett Palima, who's the giant coach at Nebraska or whatever, was always like, yeah, if you want to know how big a lineman's going to be, look at it. Look at the mom's brothers. That's science.
- [73:37]
C
Yeah, I believe that.
- [73:38]
A
Anyway, this episode is brought to you by Boar's Head. You know what's great about summer? With all the pool parties, picnics with your partner, and game nights with the guys, you have an abundance of opportunities to get together with everyone. It's even better when there's delicious food to enjoy and the best way to get that tasty spread. Boar's Head. They have what you need to elevate your summer entertaining. Freshly sliced meat, cheese that makes the ultimate sandwich platter. Right? Or you could create the perfect snack from their premium hummus and dips collection. It's a premium hummus and dips collection. They have this new basil pesto hummus that looks so good right at my daughter's wheelhouse this summer. Discover the craftsmanship behind every bite at your local Boar's Head deli. Boar's Head. Committed to craft since 1905, this podcast.
- [74:28]
C
Is brought to you by Carvana. Got a car to sell, but no time to waste. Hop onto Carvana.com to get a real offer for your car. In seconds, all you have to do.
- [74:38]
B
Is enter your license plate, answer a.
- [74:40]
C
Few quick questions, and if you accept the offer, Carvana will pay you as soon as you hand the keys over.
- [74:45]
B
They even offer same day pickup in many cities. Save your time Score some cash and.
- [74:51]
C
Sell your car the convenient way to Carvana pickup times.
- [74:56]
B
Mary.
- [74:56]
A
Fees may apply. All right, let's go to some emails and get the hell out of here. All right, we got an email here from Wes.
- [75:05]
B
Wes.
- [75:06]
A
Wes.
- [75:07]
B
Wesley.
- [75:08]
A
Wesley.
- [75:08]
B
I'm not even supposed to say w. Bone.
- [75:10]
C
That's the worst one, though.
- [75:12]
A
Breakfast is, he says, two scoops of protein mixed with 170 grams of Greek yogurt, splash of milk, top with 5 grams chia seeds, 80 grams bananas, 200 grams of blackberries.
- [75:21]
C
This guy's rolling out of the front door. My goodness.
- [75:24]
B
Can we do that again?
- [75:25]
A
Fish scale.
- [75:25]
B
That's a lot of good right there.
- [75:27]
A
He has Greek yogurt, strawberries, Greek, two.
- [75:30]
C
Scoops of protein powder. I mean, each scoop is probably 25 grams Greek yogurt. At time, he's getting out the door at 80, 100 grams of protein. Before 9:00am he's lifting.
- [75:39]
A
Wes, send us your lift routine. That's crazy.
- [75:41]
C
Wes is an absolutely unit. Is west in the NFL bulking?
- [75:46]
A
Probably his NFL bloodlines. Probably his hall of Fame bloodlines.
- [75:48]
B
Seriously.
- [75:50]
A
Wes says in James win. So we were talking about James Winston's 30, 30 season, which is just incredible. 30 touchdowns, 30 picks. West says in James Winston's 30, 30 year, a guy in her league had James as his quarterback. And he figured out the life hack, that every week he would just start Jameis Winston at quarterback and then stream the defense that James Winston was playing. Oh, I love that. Yes. So Jameis would always get 20 or 30 points and then the defense would always get like 15 or more and he won the championship.
- [76:20]
B
That's really good.
- [76:21]
A
It lives in legend. And then he says, also speaking of all the people's names with different names, John Wayne's real name was Marion Morrison.
- [76:29]
C
Really?
- [76:29]
B
Marion.
- [76:30]
A
Marion Mor. John Wayne's name was Marion Morrison.
- [76:33]
B
Wow. I don't know if I've. Yeah, that's. I don't know if I heard that before.
- [76:36]
C
Marion Morrison.
- [76:38]
B
Wow.
- [76:40]
A
Yeah.
- [76:40]
B
Nice. Crazy.
- [76:42]
A
So shout out Wes.
- [76:44]
B
Wes.
- [76:45]
A
The other Chase also said it, talking about the name thing. Like people change their names. Chase emailed in and said, listen, you all talk about the greatest name changes. Like he said, if you guys ever seen the movie Robin Hood, men in tights, actually, which is one of my.
- [77:00]
C
Don't think I have one of my all time favorites.
- [77:02]
B
It's a great one.
- [77:03]
A
There's a. There's like a witch named Latrine. And she's like. And the king is like, latrine. That a family name? She's like yeah, used to be Shithouse.
- [77:15]
B
Oh, God.
- [77:15]
A
Okay. I guess that's just for me.
- [77:16]
B
They don't make them like they used to. No, that's like. He says, hey, blinking. He's like, you say a blinking? No, I said, hey, blinking.
- [77:30]
A
It's the best. Okay.
- [77:32]
C
All those old movies are so good.
- [77:34]
A
Oh, God. Cody says, typically, I what up? What up? This is a wild. I didn't even put this email in for this reason, but reading it, Cody says, typically, I try to skip Cody, but if I don't, it's either a McGriddle on the way to work or Oikos Triple Zero yogurt with creatine powder. No, in between.
- [77:52]
C
What a wild.
- [77:54]
B
Like, it's a wide range.
- [77:56]
A
No breakfast.
- [77:57]
B
McGriddle or McGriddle you make. You eat McGriddles for breakfast?
- [78:01]
C
Yeah.
- [78:02]
B
Oh, no, I was thinking of McRib. Sorry. I was. I was picturing a McRib and I was like, that sounds.
- [78:09]
C
God, I really want to know. Like, what's the difference in this guy's day when he has a McGriddle versus Glycos and protein powders? Like, is he more productive at work?
- [78:16]
B
Maybe that. You should track that, pal.
- [78:18]
A
We should also guess. I think we could get the ages of these people. Like, really, really sharp.
- [78:22]
B
Yeah. This guy's not out of.
- [78:23]
C
This guy's for sure. 25.
- [78:25]
A
Like the fantasy punishments. I can tell you exactly how old everyone is. Everyone's like, yeah, just eat, like, 80. However hot dogs Joey Chestnut eats on the Fourth of July, you have to do that in a week. And I'm like, you're 27?
- [78:38]
C
Yeah.
- [78:38]
A
Guarantee it. If that it. Or maybe 23. Okay.
- [78:44]
B
Wait, what did he. What was the.
- [78:45]
C
Oh, yeah, sorry.
- [78:45]
A
I forgot why I even put this in here. He said the last episode we were talking about. I don't know, we started talking about feet. We talking about toes. My basketball shoes. And then I ended up mentioning I had flat feet. Cody says, I just wanted to say, when Heifetz said he had flat feet, I totally, definitely already knew that. I don't know how to explain it, but it's just obvious. Like, he looks like a guy who would have flat feet.
- [79:09]
C
Which I kind of get that.
- [79:10]
A
Fucking made me cackle.
- [79:12]
B
I kind of understand what he's saying. Yeah.
- [79:16]
A
Do I. Do I look like a guy who would have flat feet?
- [79:18]
B
Certain je ne sais quoi.
- [79:19]
C
Yeah. I don't know what it is.
- [79:24]
A
That would hurt, but he's right.
- [79:26]
B
Yeah. Yeah.
- [79:27]
C
It's hard for me to separate you Know, I heard that about you. That was one of the first.
- [79:30]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [79:31]
C
I mean it's, it's not great that you introduce yourself to people and you're like, hi, I'm Danny. Hypertensive flat feet. You tell everybody.
- [79:36]
A
Yeah.
- [79:39]
B
God, that's.
- [79:39]
C
You can also, when you look down at those shoes, the shoes you wear are always indicative of a flat footer.
- [79:46]
A
Well, yeah, it's, it's, it's, you know, shout out Brooks Beasts. You know, those big old honking bastards.
- [79:52]
C
Those big old moon shoes you're clomping around in getting.
- [79:55]
A
You know what?
- [79:58]
B
I love the image of him chasing down Richie.
- [80:01]
A
Oh my God, dude. Richie just hears the footsteps sticking up. Ed Reed back through the middle thundering.
- [80:06]
B
Like thunder claps behind him.
- [80:09]
A
Dude, honestly, I, I missed the ground move.
- [80:12]
B
You know, like basketball courts like give a little. Like you could feel it, dude.
- [80:17]
A
Yeah, I remember that one. But it actually happened like three times over the course of that summer. Like I actually stopped three layups in transition because my footsteps were so loud. It was.
- [80:25]
B
And you're just not afraid to flagrant foul someone?
- [80:27]
A
No. Yeah. I think it was because they knew it was me and they're like, he's gonna throw me under the basket. But I was actually like 40ft behind them. They had no idea. I, I don't have any more emails, but I actually wanted to talk about a random thing that happened in the NBA.
- [80:41]
B
Okay.
- [80:42]
A
And I don't know, maybe we'll cut this. I just couldn't believe this. So the, the athletic did a breakdown on the five year anniversary of the bubble in the NBA which was a remark crazy era of life. But Daryl Morey, who's the president of the Sixers just openly said in the story that yeah, most people I talked to within the league, they don't really think that title counts it as an asterisk. And I, I, I actually could not believe Lakers of a different NBA team just was like their team's title doesn't count. I actually, I, I don't know if there's anything else like that in the sport where the, like he's not retired. Like he runs something.
- [81:20]
B
Jerry Jones would say it's the most.
- [81:23]
A
The Sixers are the most disappointing team of the decade. I don't think it's even close. And Darryl, like, I don't. Am I crazy? Craig, I cannot, I know people have thoughts on the bubble. Some people like it's harder. Some people think it's asterisk. You can't say that on the record.
- [81:37]
C
Why not?
- [81:37]
A
When you run the six, he runs the six.
- [81:39]
C
Who cares? What does that have to do with anything?
- [81:42]
A
That's so. Dude. He literally says, if the Rockets had won it, I never would have admitted.
- [81:47]
C
It, of course, but they.
- [81:48]
A
We didn't win. I know. I just think that's such bullshit.
- [81:51]
C
Oh, that. It's an asterisk. That is a different asterisk. I actually think Daryl Morey is hilarious, and I completely. He is the person who would be saying this. I know he is.
- [82:02]
A
He is one. I think it's interesting, but I also. It sounds like such sour grapes. Maybe they're right, but they're all, like, all the other GMs. It's literally like a fantasy football league where, like. Well, that title doesn't count.
- [82:13]
C
Well, this is like, Daryl Morey has people talking about his whole career. I mean, this poor man constructed the Rockets to try to beat the warriors and couldn't do it every year. Dude, that guy's going crazy.
- [82:23]
A
I remember where I was that Rockets Game seven. I'm hives just thinking about where they met. How many threes did they miss at the end of the game?
- [82:28]
C
Like 20, 27 or something?
- [82:30]
A
Yeah. Oh, my God. That's still the most cringe. One of those cringe games I've ever seen.
- [82:33]
C
Or the one where Steph had zero points at halftime and then scored 35 in the back.
- [82:37]
A
Yeah. Anyway. Is it just me? I just. I couldn't believe that a guy running an NBA team was like, yeah, that other team's title kind of.
- [82:47]
B
I don't think that's that big.
- [82:48]
C
Maybe.
- [82:49]
A
I guess I'm all right.
- [82:49]
C
I think it's kind of just funny. And more executives should speak that way.
- [82:53]
A
It would be more fun.
- [82:54]
B
Yeah.
- [82:55]
A
What's a good thing, Dude?
- [82:56]
C
I saw a video the other day of a game in the Pandemic. It was like the Celtics versus the Timberwolves or something. Tatum hits a game winner, and the edit that I saw was, like, somebody in the arena videotaping. So it wasn't like, the broadcast or they're, like, piping in, you know, like, crowd noise or whatever. It is so awkward and weird. Like, he hits a game winner. There's just nobody there. It's weird.
- [83:18]
A
Just like.
- [83:19]
C
I just can't believe it happened. I almost can't remember it.
- [83:23]
A
Have you ever heard the.
- [83:23]
B
Have you ever seen the videos on, like, Instagram or whatever where somebody just dubs in? They take out the crowd noise and then just dub in, like, squeaks and stuff from the. From the floor?
- [83:33]
A
Oh, my God.
- [83:35]
B
It's just like this is like what basketball would be like without any other sound.
- [83:39]
C
It's like watching like when they do those sitcom edits of Seinfeld without the laugh tracks.
- [83:43]
A
Totally the best take. I apologize. I'm now getting bad enough memory. I don't remember if someone emailed us. Oh no, it was. Someone emailed us this when we asked for low stakes conspiracy theories email and we'll take more of those. We love low stakes conspiracy theories the best. Someone emailed us in. Someone was watching basketball with a friend and the friend never watches the NBA and they were like, there's no way that that sneakers squeak that much. They're adding that in. They're like, there's no chance the sneakers make that much sound.
- [84:13]
B
He didn't believe the squeaks.
- [84:15]
A
I thought that was the funny. They squeak.
- [84:17]
B
That's like so obviously not true. It's so squeaky. There's so many squeaky.
- [84:22]
A
I just thought it was so funny that someone watch a game be like squeaks super loud.
- [84:26]
B
Isn't it so embarrassing when you're just like walking in some random place and like you make your shoe squeak because you just like don't get correctly Email.
- [84:34]
A
Us those two like last year. Please email us more icks. Especially any women listening. All 14 of you, please email us in icks. More icks. The I Jackie is in a tennis now and she her new ick is when you look at your racket when you miss a shot like it was the racket.
- [84:49]
B
Don't blame the racket.
- [84:50]
C
Oh, but that's a tale as old as time that that expands far beyond tennis.
- [84:55]
A
Yeah, you missed a club.
- [84:56]
B
Don't look at your gloves.
- [84:58]
C
You miss a shot, you look at your hand. You know what I mean? Like in basketball, like that happens everywhere.
- [85:03]
A
It'll happen like. Yes, there is like a like when you trip and you look back at the ground like it was the ground.
- [85:09]
C
Yeah.
- [85:10]
B
Well, this, we've actually talked about this before on the show, but I just still love this so much. Is like that time Steph found the dead spot in the basketball court because it was like the ball didn't come directly back to my hand. Something's fucking wrong.
- [85:21]
A
Don't you wish.
- [85:23]
B
I know.
- [85:23]
C
Yeah.
- [85:24]
B
It's so awesome.
- [85:25]
C
Wait, I wanted to read high Fitz. You bringing up low stakes conspiracies reminded me of an old email I just found that I wanted to bring up. We got it a couple weeks ago from Dylan Debone. He said, my friend adamantly believes that SNL is not live and refers to it as Saturday Not Live. He thinks it's a big hoax and they actually record ahead of time. I was truly baffled that somebody could think this earnestly. My best point that gave him pause was that SNL is usually not funny and if it was prerecorded it would be much funnier. I noticed that almost convinced him, but he held true to his belief. Is there any way I can definitively prove to him that it's not live? Is he right?
- [86:01]
B
Help you right?
- [86:05]
C
You have to go. I guess, I guess you have went last year. Yeah, I'm. I'm telling Dylan. Dylan, friend. It is live. But I guess I. Unless you go, maybe you won't believe it. You have to.
- [86:16]
A
What time was it recording? It started 11:35.
- [86:18]
C
Started right on the dot. 11:35. So it was live. But I don't know what I guess, unless he.
- [86:24]
A
Well, maybe you're part of the con. You're part of the COVID Well, I'm.
- [86:26]
C
Trying to think, is there a way to prove it to him? Like, is there anything I can say to him other than I went?
- [86:32]
A
You went. And like, I don't believe first person testimony. Like, yeah, you know, that's a pretty sticky.
- [86:39]
C
Like, I don't know what to say. You know, like, if I hadn't gone to snl, what would I say to him to prove it's live?
- [86:47]
A
I, I don't think we could do better than that.
- [86:49]
B
There's no such.
- [86:50]
A
You can't prove it.
- [86:54]
C
I just love that Saturday Not Live. It's a great name.
- [86:59]
B
It is such a random thing to take a stand on.
- [87:02]
C
I just love him sitting back and he's like, no, that's not life.
- [87:04]
A
Nah, no way. Email us more conspiracy theories like that.
- [87:07]
B
I feel like our the so addition. The better part, like the best part about that is like he has a nickname for it. Like Saturday Not Saturday.
- [87:16]
C
Because, you know, I, I will say like late night shows feel live, but they're not. They're pre recorded like five hours before they air.
- [87:23]
A
So that is good.
- [87:25]
B
What shows are live apart from sports and awards shows?
- [87:29]
C
Well, Mulaney had a talk show called Everybody's Life that was live on Netflix. What else is live? Not a lot.
- [87:39]
B
Craig. There was a sort of cult classic comedy skit show in Seattle back in the day called Almost Live.
- [87:47]
C
Oh, really?
- [87:48]
B
Yeah.
- [87:48]
C
Was it like tape delayed or something?
- [87:51]
B
You know, I don't know actually, probably, yeah. But it was like. And a lot of it was like, you know, the skits that they record way before and then just put them in as like, interstitials and stuff like that. But yeah, definitely. Like a cult classic in this area. For sure. Is like, Bill Dye was in it. Some people that got famous.
- [88:11]
C
I don't know him. Bill Dye.
- [88:13]
B
Bill Nye, the science fiction.
- [88:14]
C
Oh, Bill Nye.
- [88:15]
B
Yeah.
- [88:16]
C
Oh, my God, the goat.
- [88:18]
A
You should look it up, Craig.
- [88:19]
B
I bet you'd like that show.
- [88:20]
C
Yeah, maybe I'll look back on it. Comedy's dead now, so I need something.
- [88:24]
B
I know. That's what I'm saying. You gotta check it out.
- [88:26]
C
I saw the new Naked Gun. It comes out this week. I really enjoyed it.
- [88:31]
B
I started watching Happy Gilmore, too. I won't say anything yet. Great.
- [88:38]
A
We'll discuss.
- [88:38]
C
Hi, Fitz. I'm assuming you have not watched it yet.
- [88:41]
A
Not yet. I feel. Wednesday, July 30th. I have not. I'm going to watch it tonight. Okay. Tonight's the night.
- [88:46]
B
Great. Joel McHale was on almost live.
- [88:49]
C
Oh, did he play football at uw?
- [88:53]
B
Yes. Yeah.
- [88:53]
C
Big guy.
- [88:55]
B
Yeah, he's like, pre ripped.
- [88:56]
C
One of the few celebs who's actually, like, very tall.
- [89:00]
B
Oh, how tall is he? How tall do you think he is, Craig?
- [89:03]
C
Probably six three, six four? That's my guess.
- [89:06]
B
Yeah, I'm going to say six four. Oh, yeah. Six four. Yeah.
- [89:10]
A
Yeah.
- [89:11]
C
Big dude. Are you guys Community Guys?
- [89:15]
A
I watched the first season and I didn't love it. And everyone's like, well, you got to keep going. And I should keep going. But it's like, you know, so many sitcoms, like, they're not good. In season one, you give up. So I know I should keep going, but I.
- [89:26]
C
Well. And you're a Rick and Morty guy. It's the same creator, Dan Harmon.
- [89:29]
A
Yeah. Yeah. I think Roiland was better than I realized.
- [89:32]
B
I liked Community a lot. I would not say, like, I'm a Community guy because I haven't watched every episode. But, like, I love the. It's in the same vein of, like, Arrest Development where there's like a million inside jokes and like a million callbacks to other jokes.
- [89:45]
C
Yeah, it's like a little nerdier. It's like kind of nerd culture. Arrested Development. And it was also a part of just an electric slate of shows. It was like Parks and Rec, 30 Rock, the Office, and Community. At one point, it was just out of control there.
- [89:59]
A
There are certain shows that when people like them, though, I feel like I'm missing something. And I think everyone has this. And I kind of. I think we need a new Myers Briggs test for, like, television that are like plug in the shows you like, the shows that were recommended to you that you don't like. The people, you know that thought you'd like something that you don't. Yeah, I think there's like archetypes and. Because like, for me, Schitt's Creek is the show where when I. Everyone like, my mom loves it, Jackie likes it, like, and I watch and they're laughing at parts and I'm like, why did you think that was funny? Yeah, I don't get it.
- [90:29]
C
I like, I like Schitt's Creek. I think Schitt's Creek is like a good show, but I think it came at a time when we were struggling in the sitcom space and it was the pandemic. And like, I think people found the show comforting in the same way Ted Lasso was. But I think if Schitt's Creek was out and the heyday of sitcoms like in the Office era, I don't think it would have really done a lot.
- [90:47]
A
But I know on the opposite end of the spectrum is Ted Lasso where I love Ted Lasso and Craig not to out.
- [90:53]
B
I love Ted Lasso too.
- [90:54]
A
People hide, for the record, people who don't like Ted Lasso to hide it. Because the Ted Lasso fan base gets so emotional if you don't like the show, they like both liking it.
- [91:00]
C
Which is ironic because the show's like about not being a bully.
- [91:02]
A
But yeah, yeah, it's true. But then if you don't like Ted Lasso, like, well, you're a bad fucking person.
- [91:07]
C
Yeah, it's like, it's. The fans of Ted Lasso are extremely extreme, exclusionary, which is like the opposite of the lesson you were supposed to learn from the fucking show.
- [91:15]
B
It's like, sounds familiar. This sounds familiar to something else that happens. But what I'm not going to say.
- [91:20]
A
All right, well, on that note, thank you, dk. Thank you, Craig. Thank you, Ronick. Thank you, Kai. Thank you, Carlos. Thank you. Awesome. Thank you everyone for listening. Emails to Ringer Fantasy Football Gmail Tongue ringer fantasy football gmail.com Low stakes conspiracy theories. I'll take ick. Any actual football questions too? We take those as well. Our rankings are@ fantasy football.thermometer.com Instagram TikTok, Ringer Fantasy YouTube. Subscribe to us on YouTube, please.
- [91:45]
B
Yeah.
- [91:45]
A
Thank you, Lord.
- [91:47]
C
Lauren is SNL Live. Tell us.
- [91:49]
A
Tell us, Lauren. We'll never know.
- [91:53]
B
Thank you, Lou Vega.
- [91:54]
C
Oh, hell yeah. Mambo number five.
- [91:57]
B
Hell yeah.
- [91:57]
C
One of the most classic one hit wonders of all Time.
- [92:00]
B
Like a little bit of Jessica in.
- [92:03]
C
My life when I was 10 years old. Like, I knew every word to that song that guy.
- [92:07]
A
Is.
- [92:08]
B
Is that the right song that I. Okay, okay.
- [92:10]
C
A little bit of Jessica in my life A little bit of Erica for my wife A little bit Rita is all I see A little bit of Tina is all I need A little bit of Sandra in the sun A little bit of Mary all night long A little bit of Jessica here I am. A little bit of you makes me old man.
- [92:27]
B
Oh, man.
- [92:28]
A
I can't believe you do the words to that.
- [92:30]
C
I don't know if those names are exactly right, but I think it's.
- [92:32]
A
That song might be Got most the of of them. The song I have heard the most that I didn't know more than three words to. Heard that song every. Like, I. I can't even tell you how much I've heard that. And yet I can't believe you just did all the words.
- [92:46]
C
Oh, yeah, I could probably.
- [92:47]
B
Number five has 773 million listens on Spotify, and his next closest is 18 million.
- [92:53]
C
That song is A1 Sweet Like Cola. That's A1.
- [92:56]
B
I recognize that.
- [92:57]
A
Yeah, it is. Oh, should we bring that back? The one second song challenge.
- [93:00]
C
Yeah.
- [93:01]
A
Dk, will you do it with me?
- [93:02]
C
We have to do DK versus hyphens. We have to.
- [93:04]
A
DK versus hyphens. DK got so mad the last time we did this.
- [93:06]
C
And again, I'll curate it. It'll be. It'll be good.
- [93:09]
A
Yeah.
- [93:09]
C
Don't worry.
- [93:10]
A
It'll be better.
- [93:11]
B
Okay.
- [93:13]
A
DK is like, we'll talk about this offline.
- [93:17]
B
No, we'll do it. We'll do it.
- [93:18]
A
One second.
- [93:19]
C
So a couple fighting out at dinner. At a dinner party. We'll talk about this when we get back at the house.
- [93:24]
B
We'll talk about this later.
- [93:28]
A
One second song challenge. All right, we'll bring it back, man.
- [93:31]
B
Lubaga.
- [93:33]
A
Thank you, Lord.
- [93:34]
C
I don't know why the. It's called Mama.
- [93:36]
B
Keep doing that.
- [93:38]
A
Bye, God. I did it again, but the yips.
- [93:41]
B
Thank you, Lord.
- [93:43]
A
Goodbye.