The Most Boring Players That Will Win You Your League

Summary

The Ringer Fantasy Football Show

Episode: The Most Boring Players That Will Win You Your League

Hosts: Danny Heifetz, Danny Kelly, Craig Horlbeck

Date: August 21, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on “the All Boring Team” — players who might lack excitement, headline-grabbing upside, or buzz, but offer immense value in fantasy football drafts due to being overlooked by most managers. The hosts strongly argue that targeting these “boring” yet productive players can be the key to building league-winning rosters, especially when everyone else is chasing hype or recent breakouts. The trio explores why such players are discounted, identifies key names at each position, and delves into behavioral psychology, positional theory, and fantasy game evolution.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The All Boring Team Concept

• Premise:

  • The “boring” label can offer the biggest draft discounts. Splashy or “cool” players rarely come at a bargain, while good-yet-ignored players tend to slide in drafts.
  • Quote: “It's the ocean's eleven, Matt Damon. It's like, the moment we're going to see you, we're going to like you. And the moment you're gone, I'm going to forget you wherever." – Danny Heifetz (01:27)
  • The hosts emphasize that ‘boring’ must be paired with productivity/value, not just lack of excitement (e.g., Devin Singletary is boring but not good).

• Behavioral Factors:

  • Human nature and the tendency to anchor to initial draft capital or reputations cause otherwise productive veterans or post-hype players to stay available longer.
  • Quote: “It's a human thing to just think it's not real. Right. It's just like that won't last.” – Danny Kelly (04:31)

• Draft Room Dynamics:

  • The “no one wants to be the guy” effect leads to productive veterans sliding in ADP.
    • E.g., Mike Evans, James Conner, Kyren Williams.
  • Yahoo ADP and default queue bias discussed.

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2. The All Boring Running Backs

2.1. Chase Brown (Bengals)

• ADP Value: 3rd-4th round; “poster child” for the theory
• Transitioned into a clear 3-down back; trusted by staff; no strong challengers.
• Elite workload post-Zack Moss, led NFL in expected fantasy points per game down the 2024 stretch.
• Quote: "Chase Brown's a three down back for the Bengals. Like, it's really simple. You can't score points if you're not on the field." – Danny Heifetz (08:55)
• Hosts repeatedly urge listeners to “just do it” when he falls: “...if Chase Brown falls to you in the fourth round, you should just do it and don't think about it...” (12:24)

2.2. Kyren Williams (Rams)

• Consistently undervalued; plays virtually every snap when healthy; coaches trust him deeply.
• Top-2 in NFL in touches per game, 31 touchdowns (ties league lead) past two years.
• "At some point, you take Kyron Williams and like, I'm not betting on Kyron Williams. I'm betting on Sean McVay" – Danny Heifetz (15:41)

2.3. Chuba Hubbard (Panthers)

• Name/appearance/setting = ultimate “forgotten man.”
• Has received extension and clear lead role, yet barely recognized in drafts.
• Statistically similar usage to Chase Brown over key weeks when both were starters.
• “He is the highest drafted player that like 9 out of 10 players in your league could not tell you what Chuba Hubbard looks like.” – Danny Heifetz (18:24)
• Potential for All-Panthers to be a “sleeper offense” under Dave Canales in Year 2.

2.4. James Conner (Cardinals)

• Perennial “boring value”; nearly always finishes as a top-15 back, but is perennially RB19-RB20 in ADP.
• Age/injuries overblown, reputation lags actual reliability.
• “James Conner, to me is the Mike Evans of running backs... every year they're top 12 guys.” – Craig Horlbeck (24:01)

2.5. Isaiah Pacheco (Chiefs)

• Former 3rd-round fantasy pick now drifting to 6th due to shifting “best-ballification” of rankings.
• Maintains feature role in high-scoring offense, but best-ball groupthink drives down ADP.
• “Even if the Chiefs are exactly the same as they were last year or the year before...Pacheco had 2023 was the RB12. He's going 60th in drafts right now.” – Craig Horlbeck (27:54)
• High floor, week-to-week volume, but perhaps “low spike week” upside in best-ball formats.

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3. The All Boring Wide Receivers

3.1. First Round “Boring” Candidates

• Fun debate over who, if anyone, is boring in round 1 of drafts.
  • Amon-Ra St. Brown: Consensus pick as “least juice” among the first rounders. Not exciting, but reliable and very productive.
  • “Amon-Ra St. Brown is like a lunch pail guy. Like, he'll get you 1300 yards, he'll get you 10 touchdowns, and you'll go home.” – Craig Horlbeck (34:16)

3.2. Drake London (Falcons)

• Projection-driven 2nd/3rd rounder; still lacks “memorable” NFL moments but steps into potential massive target share.
• Stats: Finished as WR22 in 2024, but massive 40% target rate with Pennix at QB during that stretch.
• O.C. (Zach Robinson) and Michael Penix Jr. raise the ceiling for entire offense.
• “He’s the best bet, maybe outside of Tyreek Hill, of guys in the second round that could legitimately lead the NFL [in receiving].” – Craig Horlbeck (40:23)

3.3. Calvin Ridley (Titans)

• Classic case of “he’s STILL in the league?” after suspension, team changes, and boring surroundings.
• Now paired with rookie QB Cam Ward (an upgrade over Will Levis), poised for a volume uptick.
• “Calvin Ridley’s being priced as though Will Levis is still the quarterback... that’s how low he’s going.” – Craig Horlbeck (44:37)

3.4. Jacoby Myers (Raiders)

• Checks every box: undrafted, slow start to career, “can’t score touchdowns,” changes teams, consistent yet invisible.
• New, competent QB in Geno should boost the offense.
• “He might be the most boring... he went for like $3 [in an auction].” – Danny Kelly (48:10)
• Still projects as Raiders’ #1 WR, should benefit from greater efficiency with better QB play.

3.5. Jackson Smith-Njigba (Seahawks)

• Forgotten in his range—“so boring we didn’t even put him on the list.”
• If Darnold/Seahawks offense clicks, could quietly be a PPR machine (projected Cooper Kupp role).
• “He’s almost like the off-brand Drake London of, well, if everything works this will be great.” – Danny Heifetz (53:35)

3.6. Cortland Sutton (Broncos)

• Definition of the “hardest click” — always lands around more exciting upside receivers.
• Consistent, red zone monster who developed chemistry with rookie QB.
• “Cortland Sutton’s probably just going to have like 11, 12 touchdowns.” – Craig Horlbeck (58:54)

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4. Tight Ends: The Boring Position

Jake Ferguson (Cowboys)

• Routinely available post-elite tier, offers steady 6–8 points weekly.
• “He is the most boring, like, relevant tight end in the NFL.” – Craig Horlbeck (65:59)

Tucker Kraft (Packers)

• Barely noticed, but possibly leads Packers in targets due to team injuries and depth.
• “If everyone remains in the current situation...Tucker Kraft just ends up leading the team in categories. It’s not likely, but it’s not crazy...he’s going outside the top 10 rounds and is going to fall.” – Danny Heifetz (69:45)

General Note

• Tight end: “needle in a needle stack” to find true value; boring players here can anchor lineups when you miss the elites.

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5. Boring Quarterback Debate

• Harder to define due to position nature; "flash" often defines top ADP QBs.
• Brock Purdy (49ers): Skillset is efficient but unspectacular, ADP lagging due to draft capital inertia, but reliably top-10 per game.
  • “Every time Brock Purdy plays, he’s like a top 10 quarterback.” – Craig Horlbeck (73:50)
• Dak Prescott (Cowboys): Embodies “boring” but productive vet. Overlooked despite high end production (“should’ve won MVP over Lamar” debate).
• Jared Goff: Runs-heavy offense, rarely the fun pick.

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6. Draft Strategy & Behavioral Economics

• Don’t reach, let them fall: Most crucial insight is that these players fall farther than consensus rankings, so you should not leap to reach for them, but be ready and willing to select when others ignore.
  • “Let these people fall to you. You might be like, oh, maybe I’ll take Njigba and T. Higgins here. ...then around later you’re like, holy shit, Njigba’s still here. That’s what this episode for." – Danny Heifetz (58:10)
• Positional/Fantasy structural note: Starting receiver-receiver can pay off when “boring” RBs are available later (Chase Brown in 4th, Pacheco in 6th, etc), negating need to chase uncertainty at RB.
• Evolving best-ball ADP logic discussed. Marginalizes week-to-week floor in pursuit of spike weeks, which “boring” players excel at.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Everyone’s going to go after Jameer Gibbs. ...But every draft, guys like Mike Evans just sit there.” – Craig Horlbeck (00:57)

• “I think the ‘boring’ label can be the biggest draft discount. ...People are afraid of getting James Conner. People are afraid that either older guys are going to drop off or these younger guys haven’t done it yet and they’re boring.” – Danny Heifetz (25:10)

• "He is the highest drafted player that like 9 out of 10 players in your league could not tell you what Chuba Hubbard looks like." – Danny Heifetz (18:24)

• “He runs like a kid in a shoe store trying out new shoes.” – Danny Kelly, referring to Isaiah Pacheco (31:09)

• "[Amon-Ra St. Brown is] juiceless. If you had to select somebody who is juiceless..." – Craig Horlbeck (34:53)

• “People are afraid he’s going to — this is the year he’s going to [fall off], and they never do.” – Danny Kelly on James Conner and Mike Evans (24:04)

• "We're not saying reach for these people. ...Let these people fall to you." – Danny Heifetz (58:17)

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Quickfire: Lightning Round Boring Players (76:34)

• Jalen Warren (Steelers): Hosts tepid—doesn't "move" them; prefer others.
• Darnell Mooney (Falcons): Interest if healthy as a late flyer.
• Adam Thielen (Panthers): Only as a half-season PPR filler, not a league-winner.
• Hunter Henry (Patriots): Viable as a desperation streamer.

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• The All Boring Team Explained: 00:44 – 04:45
• Running Back Deep Dive: 04:50 – 31:36
• Wide Receivers Discussion: 33:10 – 60:25
• Tight End Targets: 64:22 – 71:59
• Quarterback section: 72:19 – 76:31
• Lightning Round other names: 76:33 – 77:54
• Episode Wrap & Off-Topic Banter: 78:13 onwards

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Recap & Takeaways

• Draft “boring but good” players who historically outperform their ADP due to psychological factors, not real decline.
• Chase Brown, Kyren Williams, Chuba Hubbard, James Conner, and Isaiah Pacheco headline this year’s “all boring RB team.”
• Amon-Ra St. Brown, Drake London, Calvin Ridley, Jacoby Myers, and Jackson Smith-Njigba fill similar roles at receiver.
• Don’t reach for these types—value is in how they slide below suggested rankings due to league manager indifference.
• These are league-winners for those who can resist groupthink and ignore “buzz” in the draft room.

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For more insight, rankings, and weekly updates, head to fantasyfootball.theringer.com and follow the show on Instagram for upcoming live show & behind the scenes content.

Transcript

[A]

Foreign welcome to the Ringer Fantasy Football Show. My name is Danny Hutchinson. I'm joined by Danny Kelly and Craig Krolbeck in studio again in the World Trade Center. Somehow they led us back into Amy Poehler's studio in New York City. Still got the ficus right behind us. Today we are doing the All Boring team, which basically is just a really simple premise, which is what if it's basically impossible to get a discount on cool players? Like, cool players in their prime are just never going to be had at anything but either too much value or at value. What if the only actual discount of fantasy is boring people but good.

[B]

Also good boring. Like, we like these players and we think that they'll do well for your team, but right now they are to value because they're boring.

[C]

It's the best idea I think we've ever come up with.

[A]

Yeah, I think we're right.

[C]

Like, everybody has, oh, sleepers, everybody has, oh, who's your favorite guy? I think attacking the boring players, the players, the selections that inspire apathy, is the most important part of fantasy drafts because everybody's going to go after the sexy players. Everyone's going to go after Jameer Gibbs. That's going to be. He's going to be impossible to get. But every draft, guys like Mike Evans just sit there.

[A]

Mike Evans is perfect.

[B]

He is, he is kind of like the poster child.

[C]

Last few years it's Mike Evans and James Conner. Every year they just sit there, nobody wants them. And every year they're top 12 guys.

[A]

It's the guys that when they go, either no one acknowledges or like, yeah, Mike Evans. Yeah, it's the ocean. It's the ocean's eleven. Matt Damon. It's like the moment we're going to see you, we're going to like you. And the moment you're gone, I'm going to forget you wherever. They're just like forgettable people. And then that, that really is the key, though.

[C]

Yeah. Like if you're drafting on Yahoo, you know, they, they have the expert ranks and the 80, you know, the average ADP and it'll have a guy like James Connor and he'll be sitting there like a round or two after he was, quote unquote supposed to go. And then that almost kind of starts a snowball effect of nobody wants to be the guy to take James Connor because for some reason he's still there. And you should just take those guys. Yes, you should just take James Conner.

[A]

So we're half joking about this, but we're actually, actually mostly serious that this is probably the best idea we've ever come up with. This list is pretty great every year, but but first we're going to take a quick break. This episode is brought to you by Hyundai. Get into the Hyundai Getaway sales event and get away with the deal. So right it almost feels wrong. Score a great deal on their adventure. Ready SUVs like Kona, Tucson, Santa Fe and Palisade. Their bold and stylish Elantra, their most advanced Sonata yet. And the all electric Ioniq 5 and Ioniq 6. Plus every Hyundai is backed by America's Best Warranty and Hyundai complimentary maintenance. Visit HyundaiUSA.com or call 562-3-4603 for details. Offers End September 2, 2025 this episode is brought to you by Yahoo. Fantasy. It's my favorite time of the year. The NFL season is almost here and fantasy football season is in full swing. This season Yahoo. Fantasy is taking it up a notch and giving you a fantasy football experience like never before. This year we're playing on Yahoo. Fantasy and you should too. We're doing the Ringer Fantasy Football league on Yahoo. Fantasy because it's the best place to to do the league. Yahoo Fantasy is dropping 28 big new features over 28 days throughout August. They just dropped Yahoo. Fantasy Guillotine leagues where the lowest scoring team gets eliminated weekly until one is left standing. Give this new mode a try or stick with the classics and private head to head leagues or public leagues. Stay tuned for more killer announcements and start playing Yahoo. Fantasy Football now@yahoo. Fantasy.com theringer you a Hyundai guy?

[C]

DK?

[B]

Absolutely.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

We're all hunted guys.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I love hunting.

[B]

The electric stuff they have is incredible.

[C]

Yeah. Makes you feel electric.

[B]

Yeah. Good one.

[A]

Wow. That was good. So. And again, there are two qualifications for the all boring team. One, the guy's boring, obviously. And we can. We'll. I'm sure as we go through love.

[B]

Qualms, there's shades of boring.

[A]

And then. Yeah, the other thing is we're not just mentioning boring people. We're mentioning boring guys that we actually think will be good values this season.

[B]

Right?

[A]

That is the two things. Like if you're just like, oh, this guy's boring, but Devin Singletary is boring. He sucks. We don't think you should take Devin Singletary. That's not the point. The point is we're going to try to talk about guys that we actually think exactly what Craig said. Other than people who are hurt or suspended. Boring players are the guys that fall down you actually get the biggest discounts on an entire draft. And it's incredible how often some of the best teams I've ever drafted or people have where it's like, wow. Yeah, it's like James Conner fell two rounds. So that's what we're looking for today. And I just. Before we get into it, the only thing I want to say, the theme with these guys is really clear. A lot of it does come down to, especially we're going to go to running backs. First year, all these running backs are kind of later round running backs that no one wants to acknowledge are good.

[B]

I mean, it's a hu. It's human nature, right, to kind of anchor to the original draft capital. Maybe the original hype coming into the draft where these guys were the expectations that we had for them and when they outperform those expectations dramatically, it's a very human thing to just think it's not real. Right. It's just like that won't last.

[C]

I think the draft capital piece is a good point. So, like the. We have five guys in the quote unquote boring running back category. We'll go through all of them. We have Chase Brown, Kyron Williams, Chuba Hubbard for the Panthers, James Conner on Arizona and Isaiah Pacheco on the Chiefs. Yeah, none of those guys were a day one pick.

[A]

Chase Brown was the fifth rounder, Kyron Williams was a fifth rounder. Chupra Hubbard was a fourth rounder. James Conner was the third rounder, Pacheco was a seventh rounder.

[C]

I think that is a huge piece of it in real life. We're not famous in college, we're not famous in the draft and have been overachievers in the NFL.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

James Conner every single year is probably the best value in fantasy drafts. I think Kenan Allen had this for a long time where people always thought Kenan Allen was boring. He always delivered.

[B]

They always thought he was going to get hurt too. And then he just at some point in his career managed to put together healthy seasons.

[C]

James Connor.

[B]

Same with James Connor. Well, Keenan and.

[C]

I think these are all right because it's funny because if you look at guys like Chase Brown, Kyron and Pacheco, they're not on boring teams. They're the Rams, the Bengals, the Chiefs.

[A]

It really is almost. It's not just people in your drafts that fall. I think that we've identified. I do think that we've kind of backed ass first into a pretty good theory here. Pretty good, like world. Not only boring guys in your team, but that they're the best value. Because there's also something we've cracked, I think with like just fantasy experts in the way rankings get made. And I hate the term market, but like the way the market consensus rankings have. And it's like wisdom of the crowd. It's like stock market.

[B]

It's like overturn market.

[A]

I don't know. It makes you sound like a douchebag. I'm sitting in the World Trade center with, dressed like you are, talking about.

[C]

New York Stock Exchange, supply and demand.

[B]

It took him one day to put on.

[C]

I saw him in the hotel. I was like, why are you dressed so nice?

[A]

Yeah, just the part. I don't know. I actually, honestly, I had. I don't know. I honestly, I was like, I will finance, bro. Less.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Do you want me to wear this? It's a 15 day trip. You had to pack for three fucking days. Deacon had to pack for 15 days. Should I wear. Where will I look? Where will I look weirder? Here? Here at the World Trade center or wearing this in the arts district in Los Angeles? Where am I going to look more weird?

[C]

Why do you need the shirt then?

[A]

I brought it. And you know what?

[C]

Smoke them if you got them, I guess.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. Cost at this point anyway. So I want to get into specific guys and I want to start with Chase Brown for the Bengals, who I think is the poster child of this. And I will admit I've had Chase Brown blindness. I had. He was in my blind spot. Even last year people were into Chase Brown and I was kind of like, I'm not gonna lie, I think he was quietly one of my bigger whiffs where I'm like, I don't see it. Like, I don't know if they're going to give him all this work.

[C]

There's a lot of Chase Browns that come up every year that don't land like Sean Tucker. There's always like the plucky, kind of like fire plug, spark plug, like fifth, fourth, fifth rounder guy who's pretty good in limited capacity, but the guy can't handle a full workload.

[A]

Yeah, I'm like this guy. And here's, and here's the thing. And this is actually an important thing. The reason a lot of people, it's like smart people dismiss a lot of these running backs to start is the hit rates on fifth, sixth, seventh round is nonexistent.

[B]

It's littered with people that just never did anything the last 10 years.

[A]

I think two seventh round running backs have contributed. I apologize. I heard that on a show.

[C]

And I don't remember who said it was 10 years.

[A]

Yeah, it was like Chris Carson. Chris Carson and Isaiah Pacheco. So don't.

[B]

Damn. Is that it?

[A]

Yeah. And so when people are like, oh, I'm going to draft this fantasy running back in the seventh round and your normal redraft league don't, but once they prove that they're an NFL player at that point, okay, we've seen it. That's enough. Like, I've seen enough. So with Chase Brown, I was wrong because I just looked at this guy and I'm like, I don't see a world where this guy becomes a three down back for the Bengals. Chase Brown's a three down back for the Bengals. Like, it's really simple. You can't score points if you're not on the field. Chase Brown's always on the field for the what we expect to be the best, probably offense or at least the offense that is obviously elite with Cincinnati. But the defense sucks. And I really do think that they're the best candidate to be exactly like they were last year, which is always a dangerous game. But the Bengals are going to be throwing the ball all the time to win. And then. But Chase, every single person I've heard around Bengals camp, on the team, covering the team, working for the team, everyone is the same take, which is just, Chase Brown's going to have a monster year and the staff trusts him so much, they're saying everything they want to say. He is the new Kyron Williams of elite or like really good offense where it's like he, Chase Brown isn't an elite athlete, but he has the total trust of the coaching staff of Joe Burrow and of how to run the system and operate it in the best offense in the NFL. And so I think if you told me there's going to be a guy who's a top, who's as good as Bijan, Jameer, Gibbs, Saquon, the season outside the top five picks, I'm like, I think I'd pick Chase Brown.

[B]

He, he is a good athlete, by the way.

[A]

He's good, but he's not a sake.

[B]

He ran a 44 and jumped 40 inches. He's fucking athletic.

[A]

So why was he a 5th round pick? Seriously? I actually don't know.

[B]

I don't really know. I mean, honestly, I think he was a little bit stiff as a runner and that was actually some of the worries in his first year. And I think that he had to learn pass pro a lot his first season with the team. He was a little iffy. Like, I didn't. I don't know if he flashed as much. Much as people expected. And that was like, why coming into last year, there were some people who were really high on him and some people that didn't really think it was going to pan out the way that I think a lot of people were projecting. But. But, I mean, he's just the. And the other thing I think that's interesting about Chase Brown is along that. Along those lines, he really improved as he kept playing and he got more snaps and he got a lot better in pass pro. He got a lot better as a runner. And it's just, you know, these guys, sometimes it's not just this is who they are. He got better as he went.

[C]

If Chase Brown went to Ohio State and got picked in the early second round, I think he'd be going 12 spots higher. He'd be going at the end of first rounds. I really believe that. Zach Moss, who was the starter last year, hurt his neck week eight.

[A]

He broke his neck.

[C]

Broke his neck in week eight.

[A]

Broke his neck week three. Played a month and a half with the broken neck.

[C]

Chase. Yeah. And unfortunately they have released Zach Moss. But since Zach Moss got hurt, weeks nine to 17, just the second half of the season, Chase Brown was the running back five. He was second in touches behind only Saquon over that stretch, 23 touches a game. And that was the big knock. It was like, can he handle this workload even if you go back to college? He went to Illinois his last season at Illinois at 350 touches.

[B]

Yeah, he was. He was carrying a heavy load for them.

[C]

And then fantasy points, Scott Barrett, Ryan Heath. Great stat. They do expected fantasy points, which is basically just like based on the touches he got, where he got the touches, how many points should he have scored? He averaged the most expected fantasy points per game of any running back. And fantasy points data history over the second half of last year.

[A]

Wow, that's worth, like, just repeat that for people doing the history of fantasy.

[C]

History of fantasy points data, which I don't know how long necessarily they've been doing that, but a while. Chase Brown average the most expected fantasy points per game of any running back over the second half of the year.

[B]

And honestly, there's not a lot of competition again.

[C]

No, it's like Brooks a rookie. They have Samaj P Ryan, who's not gonna.

[B]

I think he's insurance, probably.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You know.

[A]

Well, on that note, we have Chase. Where do we want it? We want Chase Brown as we get to like the end, we have Chase Brent as a top 30 player. And I'm actually at the point I have him a little higher than you guys. I have Chase Brown, I think as the last player I'm comfortable taking before the elite quarterbacks. Like, that's how much I like him. I think that he's to me exactly where that range where you can take him. If it's kind of just pick your flavor of. If you really want to Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, like go for that. But if you're like, I'll get Justin Fields later or Bo Nicks later or like even JJ McCarthy, like 14 rounds later, that's fine. Like, I'm totally. I think Chase Brown in the third round is good. But to the boringness if Chase Brown falls to the fourth round, I think that's actually one of those, like you look back at your draft after you won your league, you're like, that's how.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, oh, like I got running back, receiver, tight end Chase Brown and I had two elite running backs that. Receiver, tight end, first four picks.

[C]

Yeah. I think guys like Jonathan Taylor, Bucky Irving and Josh Jacobs. If you want to take Chase Brown over those guys, I have no problem.

[A]

Totally fine.

[B]

100%.

[A]

Yeah. So.

[C]

Which is hard to do. We. I can't stress that enough. Lucky Irving. Oh, Jonathan Taylor. And you're going to take Chase Brown, some fifth rounder nobody's ever heard of. You got to do it. It's very difficult, but you got to do it.

[A]

And the point of this again is just if Chase Brown falls to you in the fourth round, you should just do it and don't think about it like this is the end of the day. It's not that famous.

[C]

Go home to your wife.

[A]

Go home to your wife. Other. The original Chase Brown, Kyron Williams for the Rams is also a guy we have to discuss because it's how many years in a row? Three years in a row now it's been like, well, Kyron Williams, reports of.

[C]

My demise are greatly exaggerated.

[A]

That is that really. That's like a meme. But that is an all time quote. Oh my God. What a.

[B]

Who was that?

[A]

Was that when he won the Heat with the Heat?

[B]

Oh, I thought it was Yogi Bear or something like that. Oh, could be wrong.

[A]

I don't know if it was Yogi Bear. Well, Yogi Bear is the. He. I mean he is. He's the most. He's got so many quotes laid out. He is.

[B]

No. Was it Mark Twain is Mark Twain.

[A]

Mark Twain Mark Twain's the ultimate Internet. Like everything's attributed to him. But no, he didn't say any of that.

[C]

Is that right? He didn't say that.

[A]

I don't know. But I think Mark Twain and Abe Lincoln are these guys that people just wrote on the Internet.

[B]

Like, oh, yeah, you just add Mark Twain to that.

[A]

You know, we should. Can we do a breakout on Instagram where it's just like, Chase Brown's a really good value at ADP this year. Dash Mark Twain.

[C]

So is your low stakes conspiracy that Mark Twain didn't say this?

[A]

I don't think Mark Twain said half the shit that's attributed.

[C]

The. The origin of the quote is from 1897 when Mark Twain, while traveling to Europe was reported to be gravely ill or even dead. New York journalist asked Mark Twain, I don't know. We'll never know. Well, Kyron is funny. Every year we're like that. That is. Remember when I asked DK that question about do analysts kind of overlook these late round drafted guys as guys who are actually good because they didn't see it in college? And you're like, yes.

[A]

No. He was like, no, no.

[C]

Every year, breakfast Blake Quorum, like, it's, it's his time. Sean McVeigh is telling us who he likes. They also just paid Kyron Williams. Like, Kyro Williams plays more than like pretty much any other running back in the NFL.

[A]

And I do think that maybe Blake Corn plays a little more this year because again, like, it's a red shirt year. The rookie, I just don't think Sean McPhee is ever going to trust a rookie with anything. But yeah, Kyren Williams is the starter of this team and I think Blake Corum, if Kyron Williams got hurt, would be the new Blake, would be the new Kyron Williams.

[B]

I feel like we hear, we, we Hear coaches and McVeigh talk about this every year or like, oh, yeah, we're going to try and be better about managing the workload and all that. And then when the chips are actually down in the game, when they need to win, he's like, I'm just putting in Kyron. Like he's just going to keep playing this.

[A]

I told. This is why I'm dubious because on one hand with Saquon, this is a different conversation, but it's like, oh, the eag going to play Saquon less. And I'm like, well, they can tell themselves they will, but when they need to win a fucking game, Saquon will be on the field.

[B]

Right?

[A]

You know, and I Think Kyron's the same thing McVeigh is like. But I trust him.

[B]

Well, you said like, Saquon over the last two seasons. This is a great stat. Only Saquon Barkley, he's the only player in the NFL who's averaged more touches than Kyron William per game.

[C]

He also scores a ton of touchdowns. He scores.

[B]

He has 31 touchdowns, which is tied for the league lead over the last two years.

[C]

I know. Is he a little James Cookish? Is it a little bit? Like, is he going to score 16 touchdowns every year?

[A]

The difference is that James Cook for the Bills does not play for the Bill Walsh of our time, which is Sean McVeigh. Sean McVeigh's like, at some point, you're betting Matt Stafford's.

[C]

Exactly. QB sneaking in the hell.

[A]

No, no. Yeah.

[B]

He had. There was like a point in week 12 when Matt Stafford had, like, zero rushes or he, like, he was the only quarterback who didn't run the ball, ever.

[A]

There's this great line from House, which I loved growing up. That show House.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I never watched House.

[A]

Well, he's a great. He's like. He's like, I don't bet on horses. I bet on jockeys. And I'm like, at some point, you take Kyron Williams and like, I'm not betting on Kyron Williams. I'm betting on Sean McVay.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, and sometimes you do have to look at the other players and you're betting on. And it's like, okay, who's the coach of this player?

[B]

It is. It is funny to me, though, that this, Craig, to what you were saying about fantasy analysts and, you know, draft analysts, always trying to replace players that are pretty entrenched. I'm like, I can't wait till Blake Corum gets his chance. Hunter is awesome. And then it's just going to be fucking KYRON Again.

[A]

Sean McVay is watching Jarquist Hunter's tape, and he's like, dude, he's going to be a great specialty.

[B]

When.

[C]

When Kyren.

[B]

When Kyren got his big contract, how many people are like, damn it.

[A]

Also, I can't stress enough. I know wrong on this. I know I'm a broken record on this, but I don't care. When coaches care about putting a rookie running back or young running back on the field. Do you know what Sean McVay is thinking about? Because they're like, man, that explosiveness would add such a cool element to the rams. Which Sean McVay is thinking is, is this guy going to end Matt Stafford's career.

[B]

Are we going to put him back in the Airstream?

[A]

Yeah, like literally Matthew Stafford's like daily rehab. Is everything I. We've done to save Matthew Stafford's back going to be fucked up because this rookie 21 year old kid intern, basically that's what rookies are. Fourth run running back, you're an intern. Missed a block and ended Matt Stafford's career. Like maybe Matt Stafford won't make the hall of Fame because Jar was like that's what they're thinking about anyway. We have the back to back.

[B]

Is Kyron the. The guy we're most trying to replace as a. In the fantasy world?

[A]

Definitely.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I think we're just.

[C]

And James Connor. I do think people want, really want Trey Benson to be the starter of.

[A]

I think the difference is when James Conner got a contract extension at 29, we were like, oh, Trey Benson, I guess not going to be a thing. Kyren Williams got a contract extension and people still are kind of like, I don't know if he's going to play 25 years old. We have them back to back which is so fitting. But I do think Chase Brown has a higher ceiling just because I think the Bengals are going to run more plays, score more offense because their defense will be worse. And the Bengals are just like literally the Bengals need to score more points to win each individual game. Like it's that simple. I just think the Bengals are going to score like just wait. They're just going to need to score more. Okay. Other. All boring players. Maybe the single most boring player this year. Chuba Hubbard for the Panthers.

[B]

Certainly it's funny because he's got a great name. You think like we'd be more into a guy named Chuba?

[C]

Well, I can't tell if it's a great. He kind of sounds like a Star wars character.

[A]

Star wars ass name is like a Star wars name.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Shuba.

[C]

It's a unique name. I don't know if it's like a.

[B]

He's a bartender at the Mos Eisley.

[A]

Should we play Star Wars? Star Wars. Star wars character or workplace platform?

[C]

Yeah, it's pretty funny.

[A]

Yeah, Chuba.

[C]

But I do like Chuba Hubbard. This year I continue to think the Panthers are kind of underrated.

[A]

Here's how I know Chuba Hubbard's boring. Everyone listening? Close your eyes or don't if you're driving.

[C]

No, do it.

[A]

Can you tell me what Chuba Hubbard looks like?

[C]

That's hard.

[A]

If you didn't have him on your team. No fucking chance. You know what Chuba Hubbard looks like? I think that he is the highest drafted player that like 9 out of 10 players in your league could not tell you what Chuba Hubbard looks like.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. I think that's.

[A]

If you walk by Chuba Hubbard in the street, on the street, like even it wasn't like, you know, obviously like ripped like an anvil player. Like, if you're just wearing, you know, normal business clothes, like what I got on, no fucking chance. You'd be like, oh, Chuba Hubbard, like 0, 100%.

[B]

I comped, I had that. We did name brand off brand for a live show last night and I comped Chuba Hubbard to Chase Brown in terms of just the usage that they did. So Chuba Hubbard is kind of like a poor man's Chase Brown because. And if you look at the point in time when Chase Brown took over as the starter for the Bengals all the way through the year. So six week six on, you know, you look at their stats, Chase Brown and Chuba Hubbard, and they're very close in almost every category other than touchdowns. Basically, Chase Brown scored more touchdowns. But if you, if you recognize and accept that touchdowns are a very high variance stat in general, like touchdowns are.

[A]

1 to 2% of a team's plays each year.

[B]

Right. And you also take into account the fact that maybe the Panthers offense takes a significant jump this year in terms of their efficiency, their ability to get into the red zone, give him opportunities near the goal line. Yes, they did sign Rico Dowdle in the off season, but I still think Chuba is going to be by far the heavy volume player in this offense.

[C]

They signed him mid season last year. They extended him in November. They gave him a four year, $30 million extension.

[B]

Was that, was that before or after Jonathan Brooks?

[A]

Hurt.

[B]

He got hurt. I feel like it was before.

[C]

No, it must have been November.

[B]

I can't remember, but.

[A]

Oh, maybe it was before. But they, I also think they knew Brooks's knee wasn't.

[B]

But, but the point is they really like you.

[A]

Yeah, he's a good runner and you know, it's so funny. So we did the New York live show last night, which was so, so much. We're recording this Wednesday, August 20th, by the way. So if anything's changed between now and then, that's why maybe we haven't addressed it. But the. We did the New York Live show last night. Craig made a great point that the name brand, off brand, which we did during the live show, was the Bengals with the name brand and the Cowboys were The off brand, which. What was again? PSA Precheck.

[C]

PSA Pre Check. And then the regular security line, which is often faster than pre check these days.

[A]

That cowboy.

[B]

This is also great because there was a TSA Precheck employee at the show.

[A]

Oh, my God, that was crazy. TSA Pre Check jacket wearing the TSA Pre check. And we go to take a photo of him and he's like, dude, you want to take your badge off? Like, that's not. I don't think you want that in the funny, so.

[C]

But I still don't know what Clear is. What's. I don't know what clear is.

[A]

Clear is just. If you pay us a lot of money right now, we will take you to the. It's the Disney fast pass. It's. You want to give us cash right now? It's like. It's like paying a bouncer to get in a bar.

[C]

But what is it?

[B]

Greasing palms.

[A]

What is it? Oh, no. It's like. I think they.

[C]

Is it your eyes?

[A]

No, It's a company that just takes it. They own your face. I actually don't know.

[C]

I don't know what Clear is.

[A]

It's weird because they're your eye. Clear is the most well staffed place in any business I've ever seen. There's always like eight Clear employees doing nothing.

[C]

Do they take you to the front of the TSA Precheck line? They have their own lane.

[A]

Yeah, they like. They like the front check.

[B]

Swerve you into the different lines, right?

[A]

Yeah, they just take you to the.

[C]

So they just created a tier above pre check.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

It's a biometric identity verification company.

[A]

But you know what's funny? Everyone with Clear is always mad eyes or fingerprints.

[C]

No one's eyes. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. But the theory is no one's happy. So, like, the Bengals are clear, and then maybe the Cowboys are prejack, and then the Panthers honestly are regular. Because the Panthers are actually the third team in this group where the defense is awful. They gave up the most points in the history of the NFL last year. And the offense is like, kind of like if the Bengals sucked, where it's like, there's ted. There's Ted McMillan or I guess we're calling them T Mac now. But the Panthers are actually the third in that line. They're the worst version of the Bengals and Cowboys.

[C]

One of the keys to fantasy is to find the sleeper team that will take off and year two of Dave Canales, a guy who resurrected Geno Smith and Baker Mayfield and was really the first guy to kind of kickstart Baker Mayfield with the Bucks is now in year two with Bryce Young, Ted McMillan. The offensive line is honestly not bad. It's a good bet and no one's really on it. And so you're going to get all these guys for a very affordable price.

[A]

Bryce is, frankly, I just think getting more coaching now. I think there's more investment in that. He's definitely the guy for them. Like, I don't think there's as much like we're going to have to replace this dude. Like, I think that he's just like.

[C]

The couple that broke up and then got back together and then got married.

[A]

But you're like into it now. Yeah, yeah, they figured it out. Other boring. You mentioned James Connor for the Cardinals, who is the poster, poster child for this.

[C]

His name, his playstyle, the team he's on.

[A]

You know what's funny is he should have a great.

[C]

Because the cancer thing.

[A]

Well, yeah, Connor, he's the epitome of. If he was a more famous player, it'd be like, wow, he got over cancer. And like, has been awesome. And something about the fact. And like, I don't know, something about him going to Arizona. I do think the Cardinals are in this weird space or maybe they're not like that well covered. Honestly, it's so crazy that that isn't like the, like he isn't a beloved player or beloved story. Like, no, no one even remembers that I feel like about him. Yeah, like, it's a crazy. Like it's a crazy. He was the University of Pittsburgh guy who had cancer, then went to the Steelers and then replaced Le'Veon Bell when he wouldn't play football. And it's. That was like eight years ago and he's just crushed every year since.

[B]

He's another example of kind of an older, like an aging player who's had some injuries in the past. But I think it's. It's exaggerated how injury prone he is or whatever. You know, people kind of look at him as super injury prone, but he's.

[C]

Kind of like Amari Cooper in that. I think he's a guy who plays banged up.

[A]

Yeah. I think DK's Keenan Allen comp was excellent. Where Keenan Allen had this injury prone label like years and years after. He actually never missed any football game.

[C]

He had like one season where he missed eight games of the hamster because.

[A]

He had like lacerated his spleen or something. He like had an organ injury and he tore his ACL and it was like injury prone and then he just played eight straight seasons.

[C]

James Connor, to me is the Mike Evans of running backs. Just be every there.

[B]

People are afraid he's going to. This is the year he's going to.

[C]

Incredibly boring name.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

A little older than you think. You think it's going to be the year they fall off and they never do. James Connor, the last three years, has been a top 15 running back the last three years. And of course in the rankings and ADP, he's the RB19. Nobody is willing because it's not fun or sexy to even talk about. Oh, yeah, James Connor is probably going to be the RB12 this year. That's not good for business.

[A]

My, my. I really do think that to get. To get a true breakout player in fantasy, I do think other than just dumb luck, you do need overlapping biases. And my thing this year is just get the boys. It's like you need boring olds or youngs. Where. I'm half kidding.

[C]

I don't love that.

[A]

It's true.

[C]

Youngs, get the boys.

[A]

The boys. No, it's not like, oh, B, O, Y, Z boys. No, it's like we're getting the boys together.

[C]

All right. Yeah, I like boys are back in time. That, that's.

[A]

I didn't.

[B]

Just don't call them youngs, though.

[A]

Christ.

[B]

Get the youngs.

[A]

I didn't.

[C]

The youths.

[A]

The. The two youths. The two what?

[C]

Anyway, boring old and young.

[A]

The point is that like, basically.

[C]

No. No players.

[B]

He loves a good, like, catchphrase.

[A]

No, but in all seriousness, like the iconic.

[C]

We sell Chinese food, right? Yeah, Only. Only real heads know about that.

[A]

Yeah, I'll go myself. But anyway, the point is that James Connor, Mike Evans. What we're saying is people. You're capitalizing other people's fear. You're afraid of being left with the back. Derrick Henry. Last year you got him in the second round and he had 2,000 scrimmage yards because people were afraid that would be the year to fall off. People are afraid of getting James Connor. People are afraid that either older guys are going to drop off or these younger guys haven't done it yet and they're boring.

[C]

Who's the hardest boring guy to draft.

[A]

On this list to actually click?

[C]

I think it's James Conner.

[A]

For me, it's Juba because I still am. So, like, I'm taking a Carolina Panther.

[C]

But yeah, I think Star Wars.

[A]

I still think, oh, Kyron's actually probably.

[B]

I mean, I'm still afraid to draft Kyron. What happens for everything.

[C]

He's a different guy.

[A]

No, he's right. Change my answer to Kyren. Kyron's the right to me.

[C]

And it's like Kyron's going to get hurt for some reason.

[B]

Right to me. It's all. And it's the same thing I've said about the Rams this whole off season, which is probably just stupid and I'm missing the point, but it feels like things could fall apart quickly for the Rams if either. It's like you said, it's like a parlay. If Puka gets hurt, if Stafford gets hurt or if Kyron gets hurt, if any one of those guys gets hurt.

[A]

I think that's our.

[B]

Things could kind of fall apart for them. Not. I don't think losing Kyron necessarily would tank their season, but obviously you. You don't want them to get hurt if you drive.

[A]

Is this our best new wrinkle is avoid parlays. Like, it's like the Dolphins and the Rams are just parlays and we're like, yeah, they're healthy. Like, these are awesome players. But like, why. Yeah, don't do Paris.

[C]

You need multiple things to happen.

[A]

Exactly. To succeed. You're doing the Anthony Richardson.

[B]

You win more money with a parlay though, don't you?

[A]

That's true.

[C]

You're onto something.

[A]

All right. Last guy in this group is Isaiah Pacheco, who I was kind of like so boring. I didn't want to put on this list. Dk, you've actually over the last two weeks really convinced me that Isaiah Pacheco probably one of the best values in all fantasy. Pacheco for the Chiefs.

[C]

Zay Pacheco was like a third round pick last year in fantasy drafts. Now he's like at ninth.

[B]

Yeah. I think it's actually short attention, like short memory.

[C]

He broke his leg in week two.

[A]

This is I. This is the dumbest thing ever.

[B]

So in 2023, he was the RB 1513 as a seventh round pick. Right.

[C]

He was a third round pick in drafts last year.

[A]

He's seventh round pick in real life. And then the Chiefs give him the job and then we're like, he played so well. We're like, wow, he's the main running back for the Chiefs.

[B]

I mean, he's the. Yeah, he's the main running back. The. And I. If you look at the depth chart, I mean, it's going to.

[C]

Mitchell.

[B]

Yeah. It's going to be probably him getting the vast majority of the. Of the work and then maybe mix in a little bit of cream Hunt if he makes a team. Mixing a little bit Of Smith was.

[A]

Out of the NFL a couple years ago, like two years ago for being out of it. He only went to the Chiefs because he was familiar with like he could. They needed help that badly because again Pacheco broke his leg. Cracked his leg in September. I don't know, it wasn't like a compound or something but he like had a.

[C]

No big deal.

[A]

Yeah, nbd but like it's what you have to throw out last season. Also if you're going to add pass catching at any point in your career, it's going to be around now like the third season in the league where he was. He missed time but he has mental reps like you know the system. Like this is about the time where they're like yeah, Pacheco is going to know the pass can better than Elijah Mitchell who just got there. I I don't even think you need.

[C]

To make the case that like he'll be better. It's just if he's exactly the same, he's still a great value.

[A]

He's the starting running back. This is a player that I don't know. I guess we don't talk about this enough. There's a what's changed the most in fantasy last six or seven years is the best ball ification of fantasy rankings where basically there's this best ball formats where if you don't know about it basically people instead of doing mock drafts on Yahoo or espn. Well Yahoo. The only fantasy platform in the world is Yahoo. And so fantasy shout out but instead of mock drafts people do these things. We do the draft and then they auto play your highest scoring lineup, optimal lineup so you don't play with your friends and you're trying to beat like 100,000 people to win $5 million but you don't have to set your lineup so you kind of just draft it in May and you forget about it. And the the formats of those, you start like a bunch of receivers so receivers get shit shot up and basically there's really, really, really smart people have spent a lot of time on this and the answer has been they found out a lot about fantasy football. And one of the things is in short Isaiah Pacheco 7 years ago Would have been going ranked in fantasy like 35th overall. Isaiah Pacheco would have been a third or fourth round pick. And long story short, because of best ball Isaiah Pacheco is now like a sixth round pick. And I think the pendulum might be he's still like this is wrong. Like he's just where he's like the consensus on him doesn't make any sense considering what Kansas City's offense is.

[B]

He was what they could be too.

[A]

What they could be when they're trying to be a more explosive Chiefs offense. Look at where Rashee Rice was ranked. Look at where Rasheed Rice and Worthy alone are ranked and what that's and where my homes is going. What that says about we think the Chiefs offense will be Pacheco is like the only running back on this team. I don't know.

[B]

How much do you think it is? Sorry to interrupt. How much do you think this whole thing is because of the way he runs?

[A]

Runs like he bites people. Should we send out the crushendo playlist to people?

[B]

Yeah, sure. Yeah.

[C]

And it's because he's a seventh rounder. But again, I can't stress enough. Even if the Chiefs are exactly the same as they were last year or the year before that. The last healthy season Pacheco had 2023 was the RB12. He's going 60th in drafts right now. Yeah, like this is just a very boring no brainer.

[B]

I think that he has a high floor too. I think.

[C]

Well that's what I was going to talk about. I think boring players generally are very high floor but maybe low ceiling and I think that's the only knock on a lot of these guys. Kyron though does have a high ceiling. But like guys like James Connor, Isaiah Pacheco, I do think it's like I don't think it's possible these guys could be like a top seven running back in the league. I think it's very likely they could be a top 15.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

So I do think the best qualification has kind of pushed these guys down lower because in basketball you're looking for ceiling, you're looking for spike weeks and these guys don't really provide that. But in season long fantasy when you just like need a player who's going to contribute every single week as your second running back. James Cotter and Isaiah Pacheco are perfect.

[A]

We're going to go to receivers and take a quick break. But first I found the list we I typed into Google Drive and I just found bite people in quotes and I found the list we made from a year and a half ago of the list of things we said Isaiah Pacheco runs like Jordan Lewis and the Cowboys just posted like Isaiah Pacheco run like he bite people which is just so the best thing ever. And all the replies and the best replies were Isaiah Pacheco runs like scooby Doo.

[B]

Try to picture that. You know like the feet don't move. Yeah, feet move.

[A]

But my favorite was Isaiah Pacheco runs like a kid in a shoe store trying out new shoes.

[B]

Yes. I like that. It's like when, when this is actually seeing this. Calvin will try out new shoes and.

[C]

He'S like I'm so fast.

[B]

And he like, he like do the thing where your feet start moving and then you start going.

[C]

He runs like he's doing the drill where you have to shuffle through the like foam pads, like the curbs, you know, he's like running like that at all times.

[A]

Oh my God. Oh, it's the best.

[B]

Love the energy.

[A]

Yeah. Pacheco. I, I, I think Pacheco is on my short.

[B]

I'm in on Pacheco this year.

[C]

He's so boring.

[A]

My mini takeaway from this group is part of me does wonder if the way to win your league this year is if you start receiving receiver, which is really early, easy this year. Like if you get like CD Lamb and you come back around, you get Drake London or there's so many receiver combinations. The fact that you can come around and still get. There's a world where you can get Chase Brown in the fourth round and Isaiah Pacheco in the sixth round and then have two top 10 running backs anyway. But your receivers are like top five. Like it's that to me is the, the potential skeleton key is in this episode. So we're going to get to receivers. But first, quick break. Football's almost here, which means it's time to start thinking about how the season will end. That's why FanDuel created a whole new holiday, Futures Day happening on Tuesday, August 26. It is 24 hours of deals on your season long picks. A day when you decide who will win the division, take home the MVP or take the whole thing for one day only. All customers get an instant bonus on any football futures bets. Plus flash deals every three hours that you won't want to miss. So mark your calendars because the greatest day in futures history is coming August 26th. What are you doing for Futures Day? Visit the FanDuel app to learn more and get your picks ready. FanDuel play your game. Wide receiver. I want to start with an important question. DK and I had this conversation and then Craig, you were on vacation or something, I don't remember. But we couldn't decide and we were trying to figure out if round one had a boring player or not. And we're like, I don't know if any boring players in the first round of your fan. I mean, obviously the players going in the first round of fans, not really boring. They're pretty cool. Like, they're usually not boring. And we were wondering, DK said, if there's a boring player going around one, it would be like Nico Collins for the Texans. And I was like, he's cool.

[C]

I think he's.

[A]

I was like, I thought if there's a boring player. And again, you're grading on a curve because it's the first round. You compare these guys to, like, Jameer Gibbs or like Jamar Chase. The coolest people in football. Saquon. And I'm like, if there's a boring player, it's Brian Thomas for the Jaguars. Because he plays for the Jaguars. His name's Brian Thomas. And he wasn't the most. He's the third most exciting player from his LSU team as a rookie in the first round of that draft. He's literally like neighbors and Jaden Daniels are cooler than him. He's. And he plays for the Jaguars in the AFC South. And I just like, he, to me, is the boring player in the round one.

[B]

No chance.

[C]

No, he's not boring.

[A]

He's not boring.

[C]

No, he's.

[A]

Brian.

[B]

Yeah, but he's like, yeah, that's boring.

[C]

I think he's one of the sexiest. I mean, he just, like, showed up. Was immediately the best rookie wide receiver. Was like, fucking awesome. Lsu.

[B]

He led the country in touchdown.

[A]

But it's relative. Let me. Okay, I'm going to read these.

[C]

I think it's hard to explode onto the scene as a rookie and then be boring.

[A]

If he's. Okay. First round, who's more. Who's more boring?

[C]

I got one.

[A]

Jamar. Okay. I think Amonra St. Brown.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

More boring than Brian Thomas.

[C]

100%. I think Amanra has kind of settled into Keenan Allen territory where you know exactly what he is. He's a slot wide receiver. Right. He doesn't have that power slot. Yeah.

[A]

Power slot stealing. Brazenly stealing this from Nate. Our friend Nate Tice. He's Marcus Colston on the Saints.

[C]

Yeah. And it's like, I think everyone's a little bit down on the lines this year a little bit with Ben Johnson leaving. And it's like a. Monroe St. Brown is like a lunch pail guy. Like, he'll get you 1300 yards, he'll get you 10 touchdowns, and he'll. And you'll go home. Everybody else is like, what is Brian Thomas's ceiling? Can Nico Collins Lead the league in receiving yards. CD Lamb Khalid League and targets Jamar Chase. Of course, no one's talking about a Monroe say Brown. A Monroe say Brown is like, oh, yeah, he'll be solid for you.

[B]

I think in terms of if we're. If, if we're. Because like you said in the first round, all these guys are exciting, but the guy with the least juice in the first round, like Craig's term juiceless. It's got to be Almond Ross.

[A]

Useless.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

If you had to select somebody who is juiceless.

[B]

I also feel like we don't really.

[A]

There was a reality show on Netflix that followed him. But you're. But it's.

[C]

He also followed Kirk Cousins.

[A]

Wow. That's the most defeated I felt in an argument in months.

[B]

Case Close.

[C]

Dude, Marcus Mariota was in that.

[A]

Oh, my God. All right. Yeah. Dude, he look retired. Like during the show. They must have been so pissed.

[C]

Why did they do Kirk twice?

[A]

Because he. Well, I think it's more like they.

[C]

Were like he said yes, nobody else.

[A]

Probably not.

[C]

That's great.

[A]

Their own thing with. Because Mahomes had his own thing. They did the Chiefs kingdom because the Chiefs wanted to do their last dance. Because my homes was obsessed with last dance. And then the Cowboys were doing their own thing.

[C]

Yeah. And then there's a lot of other quarterbacks and teams.

[A]

Yeah. But it goes faster than you think. Six rookie quarterbacks. None of them can do it because then you get the Baker Mayfield. Too many commercials before you go. Like, that's a quarter of the league.

[C]

You know, Smith, Kyler, Murray. Just like, don't do Kirk Cousins first.

[A]

Year head coach, Seahawks. You can't. Like Mike McDonald last year was first year coach. You take out first year quarterbacks. First year coaches. That's like a third of the league.

[C]

Wasn't Kirk Cousins first year coach with Raheem Morris?

[A]

Oh, that's a good point. Well, he's. He's. All right, fine.

[C]

I'm just saying there was other. I. I just found that to be.

[B]

I feel like people were interested in the Kirk Cousins stuff, though. He's like kind of a weirdo.

[A]

He's a good counterbalance because it's. He's a good counter to like, he's just a nerd.

[C]

Why didn't they do Trevor Lawrence? I don't know. Like, there's other options out there.

[A]

Also, Lawrence is. Is similarly boring to Kirk. Like, if you told me another guy goes to sports clips. Is that Kirk Cousins his favorite?

[B]

Trevor Lawrence has. I mean, he has.

[C]

Somebody was like, do you Want to watch Kirk Cousins again or Trevor Lawrence?

[A]

I also figured out my Trevor Lawrence take, by the way. This is not the point of what we're talking about.

[B]

Okay, that's fine.

[A]

I am going to put.

[B]

We don't always do that.

[A]

$500 on the Jaguars to win the Super Bowl. When Trevor Lawrence cuts his fucking hair, he will never be good until the hair goes.

[C]

Did Brock Bauer shave his head or was that AI?

[A]

That was a. It was Photoshopped.

[C]

Really?

[A]

Yeah, man.

[C]

A lot of people believe that, including myself.

[A]

I'm not going to lie. That was bad because the AI slop at websites who I won't name. But it's tough because some websites have agreements to post their content on others. So you're on like a reputable site that's sourcing out to a different site that writes it with AI. That is basically there used to be post on Twitter about articles and now articles are written about tweets. So someone just tweets a photoshop of Brock Bowers and then I finds it says Brock Bowers is bald. And then it runs on a different website and it's like, now he used to be a fucking detective to figure out if Brock Bowers cut his hair or not. And I'm like this whole, we got to fix this.

[C]

Going to get off the Internet soon.

[A]

Yeah, it's honestly horrific.

[B]

Soon. I'm just going to get off the Internet soon.

[A]

Back in the day there used to be a morning and evening paper and I'm like, you know what? Twice a day for news sounds great. I don't think I need a buzz. I don't think I need a push notification.

[C]

I know. I'm like, am I back in on just like the six o' clock news now? It's not like a great idea.

[A]

Yeah, maybe twice since.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Tell me what happened tomorrow morning. Anyway, sorry.

[C]

I think a Monroe is boring relatively.

[A]

Okay. Are you worried?

[B]

I think we also don't have to pick a first round player. That's boring.

[C]

Hi Vivid. You here have Drake London, which I think is an interesting conversation for a second rounder. That's boring. Do you think Drake London, you know the joke used to be what's your favorite Drake London play? And you couldn't think of one. I do think now he has a bit of an identity and he's gotten.

[A]

Well, he got the game winning catch on Monday Night football and Week 2 versus the Eagles when Saquon dropped the ball.

[C]

He has this like big body basketball kind of style to him. Like go up and get it over people.

[A]

The difference to me is really simple.

[C]

And a cool name.

[A]

The reason I gave, yeah, the cool name Brian Thomas.

[C]

Cool jerseys, like the black jersey, straight line.

[B]

He just looks sleek.

[A]

Falcons are the coolest losers in the world. Everything about the Falcons is sick except the actual history of their outcomes. But I guess it's just a receiver. It's just a list of guys who have like done it and been elite for a whole season. Jamar Chase, C.D. lamb, Justin Jefferson, Nico Collins, Monroe St. Brown, Pukinuku and Malik. Neighbors, Brian Thomas. Then you get to Drake London and you're like. Or even A.J. brown's in that group. And then you get to Drake London you're like little imagination. Like well he was the number one receiver for the three weeks Michael Penix was there and it's like he's been good for a whole year but he's also crazy young. He's got the Jason Tatum syndrome where he's been in the league for like a long time. But I mean how old is DRAKE London? Like 19? No, he's like 24. But he's, I mean I think he's probably last year of his rookie contract. Like he's like, I mean yeah, he's.

[C]

Heading into year four.

[A]

Tyler Schuck's 26. You know what I mean? Drake London's 24. So the, you know, you look, I mean Drake London is, yeah, he just turned 24 like a month ago. So he's 24.1. I know Bill likes the decimal stats so that combined with everything. But mostly I think dk it's Washington and what Michael Pennix did in college where he just slings it over Kingmaker, he's, he's like a Stafford esque Kingmaker in that he just rips it between.

[C]

Between Jameis and Stafford somewhere. We don't know yet how close he.

[B]

Is to either side. Somewhere in that, in that massive spectrum. But I think the thing too that's nice about Pennix is he doesn't take sacks. He's really decisive with the football so he's going to keep things moving and play in the system. So I think I don't have the stats in front of me but I'm guessing he hits his first or second read a lot. He's just really decisive in terms of getting the ball out. And a lot of the first reads are going to go to Drake London. So I think London is just going to have a very high target rate, maybe not 29% which is what it was when Pennix was starting last Year.

[C]

I think it was 40.

[B]

It was 40.

[C]

It was 40. Target share when Pennix played which is obviously out of control. It's a small sample.

[B]

This is 29. Like the whole year.

[C]

Whole years. 40%.

[A]

That is, that is, that's, that's.

[C]

It's funny because Drake London, it does feel like if you asked somebody based on, you know, when you look at adp how high Drake London is, you. If you asked how well did Drake London do last year, like where did he rank? What would you guess?

[A]

I think he was like 10th.

[C]

He was the 22nd wide receiver in fantasy last year. So it's like there is a bit of a projection going on here just.

[A]

Based off points per game or total points per game. What was he total?

[C]

He was ninth.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

But yeah, he's 22nd but I think he's, he's the best bet maybe outside of Tyree Kill of guys in the second round that could legitimately lead the.

[B]

NFL like be the wide receiver.

[C]

Wide receiver.

[A]

I had him as boring and maybe boring is the wrong word but within the second he's just the first guy that evolves some imagination. But I also think he's a guy that because he involves some imagination people are going to take. I just think, you know, looking at rankings, I think first of all, second rounds when people are like, I don't really know who Drake London is. I'm going to take Josh Allen.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And you're regular league and I also think that that's kind of the range where people are like, oh, I could take Drake London. That's kind of weird. I'll take A.J. brown.

[C]

Right.

[A]

Who I'm aware of. You know what I mean? I do think that Q score at some point comes in here. So Drake London to me is a good example of a player you can get in the third round and then you have like Chase Brown in your fourth round, you're like, holy cow, I'm going to win my league.

[C]

I think that's a great call. I'm a big fan of panics. I'm a believer. I think he's really good. Those games versus Oregon and Texas still stick in my mind your take that.

[A]

If they had lost the Texas game, he would have been drafted. Like we would have more hype.

[B]

That would have been his last game.

[A]

If we hadn't seen him get rocked by Michigan he would have had way more hype coming in 100%.

[C]

Yeah. I think also Zach Robinson, the OC who came from the Rams did a lot more with Drake London last year. They Moved him around. He was running more stuff out of the slot. Like they got creative and I think year two now in that system with gun slinging penic with a shaky defense, they have the fourth easiest schedule. It is kind of like oh that that's another the perfect storm. Like I think also Drake London last year led all wide receivers with 60% of the team's end zone targets. 60%. I think he could have like 18 touchdowns next year. Legitimately I love that I.

[A]

London is a guy that if we're wrong, whatever. But to your point, I just. And honestly the other thing we're not mentioning is it wouldn't be crazy. It's always dumb fantasy analysis to be like what if they get hurt? But I'm like well Michael Pennock said four season ending injuries in college so it's worth bringing up.

[C]

But I'm a huge fan of the Atlanta offense. I think they're going to take a huge leap. I would pick them to maybe win the NFC south as like my, my sleeper pick, if it even counts as that. I just think this offense is going to be very, very fun and explosive.

[B]

Also feels like it's going to be concentrated which is really important for fantasy. It's just going to be Bijan, Drake London sprinkle in some Mooney if he's healthy.

[A]

My. My new favorite thing. The week one test.

[C]

You're missing a name.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

About kp.

[A]

Sorry. I love that.

[B]

I was like, wait, am I really?

[A]

That was like Westworld. Like I don't see any. What door I kp.

[B]

We don't call him that.

[C]

I know. We can't say. We can't say Kyle Pitts.

[A]

I think overall though, the Falcons passed the week one test. How many. How much of the Falcons offense looking really like in. In this league where we keep bitching about how no one throws it downfield anymore and then Michael Penck comes out. How many quarters of Michael Penck ripping downfield to Drake London?

[C]

I need one drive.

[A]

One drive. One drive. And you're like, oh my God, I should have taken him. Like, you know Drake London is one.

[C]

Of my favorites this year.

[A]

Another guy.

[B]

This is. Sorry, this just reminds me so much. Wasn't there a. I don't remember if it was a preseason game. I think it was a preseason game high. You'll remember this. Darren Waller in his first year with the Giants caught like six passes on one drive.

[C]

And everyone was like Daniel Jones talking.

[B]

You extrapolate this to a season he's.

[A]

Gonna score 3,000 yards.

[B]

I just thought of that so?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. But if, if they have a good drive, so be. I'll be excited. I'm gonna buy into it.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

They finished dead last.

[C]

He finished 22nd. Yeah. Yeah. He had a good week though.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

While we're talking about London, I want to ask you one more guy.

[C]

There's other boring wide receivers.

[A]

That's what I was trying to say.

[C]

Calvin Ridley, who I've talked about a lot this year, but I think he definitely qualifies as one of the most boring players you can pick this all time boring guy, all time boring guy.

[B]

People are going so much off of what he did last year and forgetting, or maybe not forgetting, but just not realizing the gap, potential gap in what we could see from going from Will Levis.

[A]

I remember watching Cam Ward at Miami on Saturdays and then watching Daniel Jones and the Giants on Sundays and thinking Cam Ward would literally be better for the Giants today than Daniel Jones. And that is also true about Will Levis. So the fact that Cam Ward's a rookie again, Craig. Correct. You guys both keep correctly saying Cambord's the most under discussed number one pick of all time. I genuinely think Cam Ward being a rookie and the Titans being also boring team is disguising the fact that this is a probably maybe the biggest quarterback upgrade any team made all year is going from Will Levis to Cam Ward.

[C]

Yeah. I just think Calvin Ridley's being prices though. Will Levis is still the quarterback DeAndre DeAndre Hopkins left to go to Kansas City last year. Mid season. After that, Calvin Ridley was on a 1300 yard pace with Will Levis.

[B]

Right.

[C]

And it's like, okay, even if Kim Ward is okay, he's still going to be better than Will Levis. He's looked good in camp. He's been peppering Calvin Ridley in camp. More importantly, in preseason, he's him. They already seem to have great chemistry. So I'm like, he's basically, you can draft him now as though Will Levis is still his quarterback, essentially. That's how low he's going.

[B]

So offensive line might be sneaky.

[C]

The offensive line might be a lot better. And the upside of like what if Kim Ward is awesome? If Kim Ward steps in and as a CJ Stroud like rookie season, Calvin really is going to be the best pick in draft.

[B]

Right. This is like the, I mean, not to compare, compare him to Jaden Daniels because they're kind of, they're different stylistically, but I think we underestimated how good, how quickly Jaden Daniels is going to be in the NFL and how that much. How much that would impact the guys around him. I think there's a real strong chance we're underestimating camp more Will Lev.

[A]

I totally agree. Especially because the line should be good. But also it's also hard to. It almost. We almost don't talk about it enough because it's so obvious how bad Will Levis was. But Will Levis was the worst quarterback. His accuracy rate, like, since the word he was Nathan Peterman was probably the worst. But considering Will Levis had expectations. It's like since Carson Wentz imploded and did what I did 10 seconds ago with the stroke, like, just the brain breaks. Will have like my favorite. I think the funniest thing that happened last season was Brian Callahan, the coach of the Titans, looking at Will Ever and Mouse, what the fuck are you doing?

[B]

There was a whole part of the season where every week there was a new art but make it sports picture of Will Levis.

[A]

Oh, my God. Just faces, face plants surrender cobras faces and asses.

[B]

The art but make it sports ratio for Will Levis. No one will ever match that. Which is important to remember in fantasy.

[A]

So Ridley is a good example. Ridley's the perfect person for this exercise. He's gonna fall. Ridley's gonna. Yeah. Watching a pick six. Like, he's the Scream and Edward Munch or whatever. Like, just like there's a chance people don't eat.

[C]

Like, the average person doesn't know what team Calvin Ridley's on. Like, Calvin Ridley got suspended.

[B]

He's still in the league.

[C]

Then he came back, and then he was on the Jags, and now he's on the Titans. And you're gonna see Calvin Ridley's name. You're gonna be like, he's like 30 years old. He's on the Titans. You're gonna see Tennessee, Calvin Ridley, 30 years old and be like, I'm good. And he's going to be one of the best picks in drafts.

[A]

I'm going to see if I can pull up an example of this. Hold on.

[C]

Calvin Ridley hasn't been famous or relevant in a long time.

[A]

He literally. He's mostly known for being suspended for gambling. Before it was cool. He didn't even make any money off it.

[B]

You know, I feel like that. Yeah. The overarching memory I have of Calvin Ridley as a player was like his rookie year. I think he had, like 10 tests.

[C]

He was like, getting started off.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

Julio Jones. It was like, oh, okay, this is.

[A]

What we're talking about. Yahoo. Mock drafts. So Yahoo's. Rankings. So the rankings that when you open a Yahoo draft, the ranking Yahoo suggests has Calvin Ridley 61st, but his average draft position in Yahoo. Is 77th, which is what we're talking about. Calvin Ridley going 17 picks later than Yahoo's rankings. Telling you to take him is because this is what we're trying to say is you could get these boring guys around later because they're falling through the cracks of your friends of what they've been paying attention to over the summer. And then you like have to tick tock and you're like, I didn't do any research on fucking Calvin Ridley. And you're like titans. No, I'm going to take someone else. And like Aaron Jones, like in these guys, this is what we're talking about. The values on these guys are real.

[C]

Yeah. Because there's, there's guys like George Pickens and Jameson Williams and Jalen Waddle going around Calvin Ridley.

[A]

Exactly.

[C]

There's no way you're selecting him.

[A]

No.

[B]

Right.

[C]

Well, you should.

[A]

Another de Gan of the boring receivers.

[B]

Very similar on the same lines. Jacoby Myers.

[C]

This is one of the best ones.

[B]

I mean and I did an auction draft a few days ago.

[C]

He might be the most boring.

[B]

I think he went for like $3.

[A]

And he checks every box of. Of. He was an undrafted free agent who didn't score a touchdown for like two full years.

[B]

Two full seasons. He was like.

[C]

Took him 38 games to catch a touchdown. Think about that.

[A]

Which is might never.

[C]

He's like a player as a starter.

[B]

It's like somehow we've come to look at him as a. Like, that's derogatory. He didn't catch a touch. But he was an undrafted free agent. I think it was the same year they drafted the dude out of Arizona State.

[C]

Who?

[A]

Oh, the first round.

[B]

Now I can't even.

[A]

We can't even remember his name. Oh my God. The Arizona State guy who fantasy people love.

[B]

What is this name? I'm totally Patriots. Yeah.

[A]

Also the listeners right now for the new ones. We always joke that the closest you'll ever come to being a ghost is listening to a podcast.

[B]

Don't tell me screaming it was there wasn't Arizona.

[A]

I don't want to. Yeah, I don't want to I don't want to Google. I want to get it right.

[C]

Ringing a bell.

[A]

But I want to get it I want to get it right.

[C]

I want to get it right.

[A]

It's.

[C]

Did he go to Arizona?

[A]

He was the jump ball guy. He was Arizona State. I'm almost Positive. It's definitely Arizona State.

[B]

Okay, I found it. Do you want me to tell you I got it?

[C]

Nikhil Harry.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Dude, people were screaming just there. People were so mad. There you go. You guys are ghosts.

[B]

Was it the same year they drafted Nikhil Harry that when Jacoby Myers came in, I feel like probably anyway it was Arizona State. By the way, I completely like remember or forgot his whole.

[A]

Oh, no, actually, wow. 2019.

[C]

But it was his rookie year. He had Brady, he had Brady's rookie year. Then he had Cam Newton, Mack Jones twice, Aiden o', Connell, Gardner, Minshew, and now he gets Geno Smith and he's the number one wide receiver. Wide receiver on the team.

[A]

I think this is a great call.

[C]

100.

[A]

You're going to want to run, but everything's priced in the Raiders. Wanting to run like it's. This is a guy. Yeah, he's forgettable. He's going to fall in the draft. Like, this is another guy. This is a. This is the point of the exercise.

[B]

I just think we. We got to give him some credit because he came in as an undrafted free agent the same year they drafted Nikhil Harry and just straight up outplayed him.

[A]

Yahoo drafts. Jacoby Myers is ranked 74th on average. He goes like 100th.

[B]

He was. He was 15th in targets last year, 12th in catches. And now he has a very good quarterback. Well, really a pretty good quarterback. If you're not a Geno believer. He's at least league average. Comparing that to Aiden o', Connell, Gardner Minshew, the guys that they had playing last year, I mean, his efficiency is going to spike. I could see him score way more touchdowns. He had four touchdowns last year, which is obviously kind of. That's still holding down his ADP or whatever. But I don't know. He's going to be the number one receiver on that team. I think him and Brock Bowers is going to be the number one overall pass catcher on the team. But I still think it's going to be concentrated with Myers, Ash and Genti Bowers and it's going to be much more efficient.

[A]

I'm a little nervous Chip Kelly is going to fuck with Brock Bowers. It's a little in the back of my mind.

[C]

Well, there's like the reports about Brock not playing a lot, which it's.

[A]

People were. Yeah, people were saying. Yeah, it's kind of people were saying, well, this is what Chipko did the past. And basically obviously Brock Bowers, you know, they want two blocking titans on the field at the same time, like, yeah, but he's their best player. This didn't come out. But the. Well, the college football. I forget Associated Press, I forget. They did the all century. They did the all century team. They did like the best. Like, you know, the all pro team did the all pro team for college football. Like the All Americans for the last 100 years. Best play in the history of every position.

[C]

Cloys.

[A]

No, but there weren't guys like that on the team.

[C]

Milt.

[A]

Milt Plum. He was on the Giants.

[C]

What college did Milt Plum go to?

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

The College of the Redwoods.

[A]

Probably went to Navy and killed some Nazis. Nazis Killed some Nazis. Penn State killed some Nazis.

[C]

He lived in 90.

[B]

They're built different.

[C]

Crazy.

[A]

Milton Ross, he fought World War II and then played 15 years in the NFL and then lived to 90 years old. It's unbelievable. Oh, wow.

[C]

He led the NFL healthy my whole life and diet 75.

[A]

Probably all the raw milk and ceremonial grade matcha last receiver I want to ask you guys about.

[C]

He probably smoked cigarettes for 70 years.

[A]

Probably. What the.

[C]

I don't know.

[A]

Probably got a house for like a thousand dollars.

[C]

That stuff is the most fascinating. Like when the people who just like, eat red meat and smoke cigarettes for 60 years and they're just like 87 years old.

[B]

No, it's like you hear these. Yeah. That you. They. You see the interviews with the. The oct, like the hundred. What is it? Centenarians.

[A]

They're like, kiss your wife every day. Three bourbons.

[B]

What's. Yeah, exactly.

[C]

Like, what's.

[B]

What's your secret?

[C]

I remember some whiskey for breakfast. Yeah, it was like some lady was 105 years old. She's like, I have a Coca Cola and bacon every morning.

[B]

What the. You have all these influencers.

[A]

At ringer fantasy football. GB copy of the funny examples of old 100 year olds or whatever old people telling you what to do and the what to do every day. You're right. Do you think in 100 years it's gonna be like, how'd you live to. How'd you live to 200 years old? And it's gonna be some tiktoker saying like, oh, I put tallow on my face every morning for like 200 years.

[C]

I taped my mouth shut every night as I slept.

[A]

Mouth tape and tallow every night. Oh, my God. The last receiver I want to ask you guys about so boring didn't make this list is Jackson Smith and Jigba for your Seahawks Great one where he is just this forgotten man in this tier we literally so boring. We didn't even put him on this list. But I'm looking, I'm like we have Jackson, Smith and Jigba ranked. He's in like the like the end of if you're in a 12 team league end of the third round beginning of the thing where he's around these proven commodities like Mike Evans and T. Higgins. He's around like Garrett Wilson who's probably more famous than Jackson, Smith and Jig but they were the ones Ohio State and then like Ken Walker and James Cook, the running backs, Breeze hall and then Jig was just there. And I do think he's boring in that. I mean where is he rank in the pantheon of Ohio State receivers? Like he's not like, you know, mid tier and basically had one incredible college game.

[B]

He's just not explosive.

[C]

He was the first wide receiver taken in a bad wide receiver class.

[A]

Yes. Bad rookie year under Shane Are we live Waldron. Right. And then. But I will say if we're buying into the Seahawks offense and that's really the question. Dk, I feel like a week ago when we started putting together these lists you were like I don't know this offense. And now that you've seen it, if the Seahawks offense is good and they actually just have a Kubiak system, I'm like, man. And Jigba is also. Injigma is almost like the off brand Drake London of well, if everything works this will be great. I'm like, we almost don't want to entertain the fact that what if Darnold's good? Like if Darnold's good on the Seahawks and they can block well and Jig was probably gonna destroy in this offense.

[B]

Yeah, it's really hard because like, like you mentioned, I'm starting to get my hopes up that the Seahawks offense is actually going to be pretty good, pretty efficient.

[A]

I don't think Charlie Brown being like, yeah well Darnold's gonna figure it out.

[B]

I know 100 but this, the run scheme really does seem to be clicking at least in the preseason. Obviously that doesn't mean much because once we get into to the regular season, you know, it's totally different. The defenses are just so much better in the regular season than in preseason and they're playing harder schemes and more complicated stuff. But all that said, I'm really excited about Gray Zabel in terms of what he brings to the offensive line and just upgrading the guys around him and the scheme just fitting better. They're doing a lot of like under center Play action stuff like the play action. You know, I've seen stats. I don't have them in front of me, but like expected points, expected fantasy points on play action passes is much higher because generally speaking, you're further downfield more explosive plays.

[A]

Maze wrote an article about this for. I mean, so long ago it might have been Grantland that like a play action pass is like the. Is like a quarter three in the NBA.

[B]

Right. It's just. And so, you know, I can see him be more explosive than people are expecting because of the play action passing game. Sam Darnold, stylistically, he likes to push the ball downfield. He has a little bit of a YOLO style and that's probably been bad for him in the past, but in the right structure, as we saw last year, I mean he's. How many touchdowns did he throw? 35. Obviously this is a totally different offense, but I think there is a chance that we're a strong chance. We're very much underrating Sam Darnold based on, I guess the prior history to.

[A]

Last year, everything we've ever seen except the first three months of last year.

[B]

And the way he finished the season last year, which was, I think a lot attributed to how bad the offensive line was.

[A]

It was like the 28 to 3 of a season.

[C]

He had the Pennocks. It was like he was. It was like the Oregon, Texas amazing. And then he got killed. And then it was like I actually never.

[A]

So true. What would we say about this?

[B]

He would have made way more money.

[A]

Something I wanted to do is if.

[C]

They lost in a shootout by one and he had four touchdowns in 300 yards, I think we'd be talking about him completely.

[A]

I wanted to do an episode. Maybe I shouldn't be saying this in the show. We can cut this if we decide later. I've wanted to do an episode with you guys where we. It's too stupid to do an entire episode, but I have want to do an entire episode where we pretend we didn't watch last season and we just looked at the 2024 rankings, but we just came off the 2023.

[B]

I kind of like that. Yeah.

[A]

And like, like. And you think about, oh, the CF quarterbacks who. Sam Darnold, you're gonna take a jig. But where. You know what I mean? Like, I kind of wanted to. Pacheco's in the 70th. That's weird. You know what I mean?

[C]

It's hard with. With injigma. I feel like you can make the case for either side really. Easily. It's like Sam Darnold, they were like top five in passing last year, pass rate last year. Now they're not. They're going to run the ball a ton of like, I don't know, the offensive line shaky, like first year with the new oc, new quarterback. Like, that sounds like a disaster. And then you're like, in the same way that we overthought Derek Henry going to the Ravens, like, obviously that's going to work. Saquon Barkley going to the Eagles. Obviously that's going to work. Part of me is just like, Jackson, Smith and Jigba had 1100 yards and 96 catches last year with DK Metcalf and Tyler Lockett playing full seasons and now they're just both gone. Yeah, this is obvious.

[B]

And they're moving him around the formation a lot.

[C]

He's going to replace them with Cooper cup.

[B]

Right.

[C]

Like this is obvious. He's going to have twice the volume. So it's like. It's same with Jacoby Myers. I'm like, now he just has Geno Smith and not Cam Newton and Gardner Minshew. Obviously this is a great upgrade where.

[A]

Here's the thing though, and this is why I bring up a Jigba. Isn't he the hardest click of all these guys because of who's around him? I feel like I need more people gone off the board. Like, I need.

[C]

I don't know because like Garrett Wilson and Terry McLaurin.

[A]

Oh, I'm way right. Like he's in a different tier to me because I think a jig but like Terry's upside, I think is what we saw last year. Garrett Wilson. I. I mean, I don't. I just don't want to be the fucking idiot who bets on Garrett Wilson having his best season. Justin Fields, if it happens, I'm happy for him. I'm actually happy for jets fans.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Happy for Fields. I would like Fields to resuscitate his career. I don't want to bet on it though. And I. I think in jig was such a better bet and I think they should not be next to each other. I think a jig was like he's way closer to T. Higgins in ceiling than like Garrett. Like, I just, I just. You can't convince me that Garrett Wilson's.

[C]

I agree with you. Looking at fantasy pros, adp, they're going.

[A]

Next to each other because NJIG was not famous. And again, this is the point of what we're saying. We're not. It's actually the opposite of like, don't reach for these people.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

We're saying let these people fall to you. Like, you might be like, oh, maybe I'll take Injigma and T. Higgins here. And then you take T. Higgins and then around later you're like, holy shit. Inject was still here. That's what this episode for. I don't know if you guys agree, but that to me is the purpose of this is these guys might just fall to you with your next pick. More than any other episode we've ever done, we don't like let them fall.

[C]

We don't have him written down here, but I do think it just popped into my head. Another really boring wide receiver is Cortland Sutton.

[B]

Oh, 100%, yeah.

[C]

Super boring. Like the clear red zone target on an ascending offense with a second year quarterback who like developed a connection with him. Corland son's good.

[B]

Didn't they just resign him too?

[C]

Yeah. And it's like Corland Sutton's probably just going to have like 11, 12 times.

[A]

He's a good. He's a. Add him to list of people we've actually met where I'm like, Cortland Sutton's like a. For a receiver, like a really nice guy. A lot of receivers are kind of like, you know, rightfully so. Like really, you know, they're like rock.

[B]

They're like.

[A]

Yeah, they're like rock stars or whatever.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Crohn's son's like a really nice and very smart play. Like, he's a. He's a very high IQ player second.

[C]

Half of the season. Right. Which is reasonable.

[B]

A rookie quarterback hitting his stride.

[C]

Yeah. Second half of the season he was the ride receiver. 12.

[B]

Yeah. He had a 25.

[A]

He was a Mark Andrews. He was like a cut candidate in the first month, half of the season.

[B]

I know.

[A]

So I felt like they're trying to.

[B]

Get rid of him.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[C]

But rookie quarterback, he's another one. No one's going to be excited to.

[A]

Click his name, but I've struggled to click his name.

[B]

Craig last year.

[A]

It's also Sean Payton thing where you're like, can you. At the end of the day, can you predict is he. I mean.

[B]

Yeah, I think Cortland Sutton's a great example. Yeah. He's very boring. He's. It's hard to pick him when there's guys around that are like more exciting.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

But he's also, if you look at the names around Cortland Sutton, he's also perfect for this exercise because like Xavier Worthy Jameson Williams, George Pickens, like even Jalen Wattles had moments. DK Metcalf is famous as fuck. Joe Burrow. Devonte Smith, who if any of your people in your league like college football the one Smith's like the highest four receiver I've ever seen in college football. Rasheed Rice is around there. Aaron Jones, who at least has been around a long time. DJ Moore, if people are into the Bears, like a lot of cool players and then it's Cortland probably up 29.

[B]

It's like, you know, you don't know what to expect. It's just yeah, but 20. But like we have really not that.

[A]

Old clearly, like the age curve has moved. We actually this is probably the best thing we've ever gotten right in the history of our show was a couple seasons ago identifying that all the data that we use to look at when to expect players to decline is just outdated because it's before they could put a fucking Airstream in the Rams parking lot and like get Matthew Stafford and whatever rehab like Le'Veon Bell in 2016 did not have what his hamstrings being weighed for measurements the way Alvin camara does in 2024. And like I think 29 is the new 28 7. I mean that's the stupidest thing I've ever said right there.

[C]

No, but everything pushed like a year.

[A]

Everything went back two years and like at some point you have to look like Novak Djokovic is still competing in the like Novak JOVIC Win the U.S. open. Mike Evans is out here at 30. Devonte Adams is getting 25 million a year at 33 years old. Like, yeah. Anyway, let's get to tight end. But first, this episode is brought to you by Hyundai. Get into the Hyundai getaway sales event and get away with the deal. So right it almost feels wrong. Score. Great deal on their adventure. Ready SUVs like Kona, Tucson, Santa Fe and Palisade. Their bold and stylish Elantra. Their most advanced Sonata yet in the all electric, Ioniq 5 and Ioniq 6 plus every Hyundai is backed by America's Best Warranty and Hyundai complimentary maintenance. Visit HyundaiUSA.com or call 562-314-4603 for details. Offers. End September 2, 2025 this episode is brought to you by Wayfair. Your home is more than a space. It's where you express yourself. Like, we've all got our setup for when the guys are over, right? So my thing when it when when everyone's just around watching a game watching a movie, whatever is I I go for, I want a corner couch. If it's a L shaped couch, I want the corner. That to me is like, I don't know if it's the alpha spot, but I'm like, I that's where I that's like the Nestle. That's the cozy. That's where I want to be. And if that's not available, any kind of like single chair, like where I'm not on the couch. Like if it rocks. Unbelievable. Recliner, I'm in heaven. Recliner cup holder, full leg extension. Like that is the dream. Because you can kind of get up whenever, but you're laying back. It's the best of every world. It's like that's the goal to me. So. However, whatever your vibe, Wayfair is every style for every home. They've got all your home essentials, storage solutions, decor and more all in one place. I use Wayfair. So Jackie and I, we got a rug. And I'm not gonna lie, I realized that Big Lebowski, they were right, like the right room. The right rug really does bring the whole room together. It's so nice to walk on. I I just it's the nicest rug I've ever owned and I didn't realize how much that would bring me joy. Maybe I'm just getting older in life, but I didn't realize that a really, really, really nice area rug just would bring me a ton of joy. But it does get inspired with room ideas and easy to shop collections, all with everyday ways to save. Shop everything [e-mail] with free and easy delivery straight to your door. That's W A Y F A I R.com Wayfair Every style, Every home this message is a paid partnership with Apple Card. There's one thing I'm going to make sure I pack for my summer vacation. It's my Apple Card. I can earn up to 3% daily cash back on every purchase, including fuel for my car and booking places to stay. Plus, I don't have to worry about fees, including foreign transaction fees, which is perfect when I'm planning to travel abroad. To get an Apple Card for your summer travels, apply on the Wallet app on your iPhone today. Subject to credit approval. Apple Card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA Salt Lake City Branch Variable APRs for Apple Card range from 18.24% to to 28.49% based on creditworthiness rates as of July 1, 2025 Terms and [e-mail].

[C]

This episode is brought to you by the all new ESPN app. All of ESPN all in one place. Your home for the most live sports and best championship moments. It's the ultimate fan experience. Step up your game and get even more than before with no annual contract required. Level up. For more on the ESPN app or at stream espn.com Sign up now.

[A]

I want to go to tight end for a hot second. So many boring tight ends is actually harder.

[C]

It's the most.

[A]

So like it's almost funny. It's like just the needle in a needle stack. But who's your most boring of the boring?

[B]

I think the guy who's getting underrated right now a lot is Jake Ferguson for the Cowboys. I think we're, we're forgetting and Craig, we've been saying, saying this a lot. We kind of forgot how electric the past game for the, for the Cowboys can be under Dak Prescott when he's healthy and when their line is functioning. So I don't know, I just think, you know, Dak has already always shown a propensity to pass the tight ends. He's very comfortable throwing over the middle of field. Ferguson fell off pretty badly last year in terms of what, you know, what I think a lot of people expected. But because he was a top 10 tight end in 2023, I think he.

[C]

Hurt his knee or an ankle early.

[B]

He was injured, Dak was injured, his snap rate fell. I think they were trying to bring him along back slowly, but this could be the year that he really bounces back. I think it's his third year in the league and he's a big, he's a big target with a huge catch radius. He can do a little, he's, I think he's pretty good run after the catch so he can add a little bit. He's not just going to fall down immediately when he catches the ball, but I just think he's going to have a lot of targets in this offense and he's going to get a lot of opportunities. Probably not going to win you your league in terms of he's not going to be a top three tight end.

[C]

Yeah, but he's a real like, he'll deliver every week.

[B]

Right. If you miss, if you miss the first run on the elite tight ends, at least you're going to get, you know, a solid floor. With Jake Ferguson, eight points.

[A]

Brad Pitt says he has like face blindness. Yeah, I have like, that's kind of Jake Ferguson blindness. I think you'll never see him in your, I don't know.

[C]

I can't he is the most boring, like, relevant tight end in the NFL.

[A]

Yeah, that's a great. I'm just Ferguson. Yeah, he's a boring. That's a boring.

[B]

There's now two Ferguson tight ends right now. Terrence Ferguson, I think.

[A]

I think Terence Ferguson's really good. Or will be. Not this year. Don't draft Terrence Ferguson. But I do think long term. That's funny. The tight end, I was going to say, was boring. So I actually was thinking about this guy. I'm not going to tell you who he is, but I was thinking about, you know, the players have their little headshots, like the official NFL shot. And I was thinking if you looked at every NFL headshot of every player in the NFL and you're like, one of these guys is a fantasy football podcaster. I'm like, it would be Tucker Craft, right? Like, it would be Tucker Craft. Like, I'm like, that guy's the fantasy football podcaster. I think he's the least remarkable looking person in the entire league.

[C]

Damn.

[B]

Wow.

[C]

The hell?

[A]

Not least not, like, ugly. I'm saying he's normal. He's like the most average looking guy.

[B]

All right.

[A]

Like, he just is like a. Like a npc creative. Like, he's just a.

[B]

Look at this guy. The IMAX got the black eye mask going on.

[A]

It looks kind of weird. I'm just saying. I'm not saying he's ugly. I'm saying he's the most normal. He just looks like a. He covers the NFL. He's got these views.

[B]

He's super tatted up.

[A]

He's a large person.

[B]

I think he's cool. Look at him.

[C]

I have a. I have an important question. Is Tucker Kraft a good or bad name?

[A]

I think it's a good Craft.

[C]

Is it a cool name?

[A]

I think Kraft is cool.

[C]

Tucker Kraft.

[A]

I'd recruit him.

[B]

I don't think it's. I don't know.

[A]

I don't think it's like, slight pot lean, positive.

[C]

Lean, positive.

[A]

So, but here's my thing with Tucker Kraft in a nutshell, which is he's very athletic.

[C]

Dk.

[A]

Oh, yeah, sorry. Is he an athletic tight end?

[C]

He's like a mini George Kittle. He is a huge yards after the catch.

[B]

Yeah, he does run after the catch.

[C]

He was second behind only Kittle in yards after the catch last year.

[A]

To the point. I think if you ask, like, tape nerds, and you're like, who are the top six tight ends in the NFL? Like, overall, like, the blocking receiving Craft. Tucker Craft's like legit good. He's going to be on the field a lot and there was hesitancy because of him. He was the third, he was the second tight end the packers drafted in that year.

[C]

That's the whole thing.

[A]

He was the third round.

[C]

Musgrave got hurt. Tucker Craft came in and kind of took his job.

[A]

Luke Musgrave, the hept athlete. It was like alpine skiing, whatever. Guess what? He's not that good. Luke Musgrave is. He's a receiving tight end, right? Am I wrong?

[B]

No, I think you're right.

[A]

Tucker Craft is an all around player. Like he's a, he's a receiver, he's a blocker. He is in the kittle mold. I say he's kiddle but like he can block and catch. Here's the thing J Packers overall I think are another blind spot for fantasy analysts and like who make the rankings and kind of create the consensus because they have been very hard to predict. Looking at a Packers team or Christian Watson to remind people towards ACL late last year, I don't know if he's going to play in the regular season. Christian Watson, Jaden Reed has a foot sprain. So you're looking at the packers receivers being Don Taven Wicks has a calf issue and then like one of the receivers, Bo Milton's playing cornerback and so you have Romeo Dubs is X. Matthew golden is going to be like the Z as a rookie. Everyone else has some kind of injury and is like ready for week one but over the course of the season, what if the guy who's just like the number one receipt? It's not I am captain of the Matthew Golden's a great fantasy pick this year, but he is a rookie and I'm like what if Tucker Kraft is actually the sneaky tight end who actually just the number one receiver in his team by the end of the year.

[C]

Had it like year three.

[A]

None of the people who are like really studying X's and as a football would be surprised by that because he's a really good player and Romeo Dubs is like you know, Matt Harmon is his great term sacrificial X. Like he's a number one receiver in the design of the plays but not reality. Tucker Kraft to me if you look at all these boring tight ends like Jake Ferguson, the disagreement I would have there is there is zero chance that as long as CD Lamb's healthy, Jake Ferguson's ever the number one option for Dallas outside of pure matchups. I do think there's a chance that if Everyone remains in the current situation of Matthew golden and Romeo Dubs and Tucker Kraft being the main healthy options, where Tucker Kraft just ends up leading the team in categories. That's not. It's not likely, but it's not crazy for someone that's going outside the top 10 rounds and it's going to fall. I like Tucker Crafts quite a bit.

[B]

Yeah, this. This is a. A good bet to make, I think, because he's. He's not going high in drafts and he's. I mean, he's probably a dollar in auction drafts.

[A]

So cheap.

[B]

So the bet you're making is if something significant changes with this team, it's a good offense going to score a lot of touchdowns, going to pass for a lot of yards, and there's no.

[C]

Clear, dominant number one.

[A]

One more packers receiver gets hurt.

[B]

It's just like, what if one guy emerges from the seam? That is the bet you're making. And I could absolutely see it being Tucker Kraft. They really like him. He's. He's like Craig or Heifers, maybe. You were saying he runs after the catch a ton. He's trucking people in the open field.

[C]

He's. He was. What was it? He was second in yards per route run last year, only behind Kittle. I mean, that. That shows that this guy can really make stuff happen.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I think the fear that I've got with just all the packers is you're playing whack a mole week in and week out in terms of, like, who's going to get.

[C]

But you're not playing.

[A]

You're doing that at tight end anyway. That's why. And that's. That's part of it to me, too. Maybe don't play whack a mole at receiver. Maybe the answer to the Green Bay receiver thing is. And again, I saying. Talking on both sides of my mouth, but I'm like, if I'm wrong about the Matthew golden thing, maybe the answer is don't play packers receiver. Play the packers tight end because you're doing whack a mole.

[C]

Anyway, it's.

[A]

Do you get a touchdown?

[B]

It's a small miss if you don't hit.

[A]

Yeah, big hit. That's it. If you miss some. Tucker Kraft is small, but the hit could be big.

[C]

He's going outside the top 100.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. And again, I'm not saying reach for Tucker Craft. I'm saying if you thinking about Tucker Craft, and this is how I feel about all these guys, if you're thinking about them, they fall back to you.

[C]

Tucker Craft Sounds like an NPC Madden fake name?

[A]

Yeah, he. College Football 26.

[B]

Did he have the quietest 700 yards last year? Like he had 700 yards.

[A]

I feel like he was a really good.

[B]

Remember none of that.

[A]

The only people who know him are the people who added him in fantasy. Like they know he's good but like that's one person in your league. So I'm telling you he's a secret.

[B]

This happens a lot too. There's a like a weird phenomenon in the pros where the second drafted tight end is like better than the first one.

[A]

It happens.

[B]

It's one of those a lot.

[A]

What's that meme? It's only happened four times but like I only have four nickels. But that's like a weird, like it's weird that it happened that many times.

[B]

I mean it's like Mark Andrews and. Who's the other guy they drafted? Lamar Jackson. Yeah. Hayden Hurst.

[A]

The all time.

[B]

You see it, you see it relatively often. It's just an interesting phenomenon. But like Tucker Craft I think is clearly better than Luke Musgrave.

[A]

Yeah, sorry. I just got caught up on thinking about Lamar won three MVPs and, or whatever and whatever he's gonna end up winning in his career. He's like Jokic where it's like what pick was he? How many players they took ahead of that guy? Their own team. Okay. Any tight ends you guys want to do quarterbacks here? Quarterback. I think it's hard to do boring because quarterback. The. Nate. It's like the nature of the position. It's the most important position in sports.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

A little different to find like a boring player. So it's. I'm open to the definition being squishier. I thought the only person that truly kind of met the definition was Bonix.

[C]

I don't think Bonix is boring.

[A]

Well, but here's the thing. How many times can we have the conversation where if Caleb Williams did this year what Bonix did last year, we were going to freak out but Bonix did it and no one really gives a shit.

[B]

I think people do though.

[C]

I think everyone's in on. Bo Nix loves the Broncos and they're.

[A]

Like the sleeper pick. Yeah, I guess that's hard to gauge. Yeah. I'm not like against. I'm just like can I read the quarterback list?

[C]

If you're, if you run, it's hard to be boring.

[A]

That's fair. I just. Josh Allen. Lamar Jackson hurts. Jaden Daniels. Joe Burrow. Mahomes. The least boring six players in the NFL. Kyler Maybe you could argue Kyler became boring, but he's ranked seventh. I don't know. Justin Fields these many things. I don't think he's boring. Bo Nicks Baker's not boring. Brock Purdy.

[B]

I think Brock Purdy is boring. I think Brock Purdy is suffering from. We talked about this early on the show, the anchoring to his original draft capital also. And like with Kyron anchoring to. He just physically isn't very exciting. Kyron Williams, kind of small, kind of slow. You know, I think with Brock Purdy does not look like a great NFL athlete. Like he does. He just. He's small and pretty skinny, not super muscular or whatever. Like, he just doesn't look like he'd be a really good quarterback in the NFL. And yet he is top 10 in the last two seasons in fantasy points per game, 51 passing touchdowns over the past two seasons, eighth among all quarterbacks. Patrick Mahomes. That's 53.

[C]

Every time Brock Purdy plays, he's like a top 10 quarterback.

[B]

And he's also pretty good runner. I don't know if he's going to run as much as he did last year, but as a scrambler, he's very good. He, you know, he sneaks out of pressures. He gets away from guys. He's really hard to track down. He gets a lot of first downs.

[C]

Purdy's a pretty good one. I think Dak Prescott's pretty boring. I know we keep kind of banging the drum on the Cowboys, but I do think Dak is kind of overlooked now.

[A]

You love Dak. We were arguing yesterday. About what? You still think Dak should have won the mvp.

[C]

I do. I think it's weird that Lamar won it that year and didn't win it last year. That makes no sense. Lamar should have won it last year, not in 2020.

[A]

I'm still in a believer.

[C]

Josh Dak led the league in yards and touchdowns. They were tied for the best record in the nfc. I don't know.

[B]

I think Dak is.

[A]

I think Dak is a better player.

[C]

Yeah. Obviously that's not what the MVP is. It's like who had the best regular season.

[A]

But it's not a stats award. It's just like. I mean, I mean, I'm not hearing Dak was bad. I just. I think that you're right when you're like, well, the argument. I think. I see what you're saying is, how could Lamar not have won last season if he was a better season than when he won the year before? But I know you don't look at.

[C]

It in the back yet. No, I.

[A]

So I'm like, in that year, when you watch the games, you're like, well, Lamar's like. But Cowboys would have rather had Lamar Jackson.

[C]

Okay. Yes. But that 2023 Lamar MVP season was not even one of his best two seasons. That up to that point, 2019 and 2021 or whatever it was, he had way better seasons than the MVP season in 2023.

[A]

2019 was better. 2021 was. I think, look at his.

[C]

I mean, you can look statistically, but I think that was his third best season at that point.

[A]

I'm not. I am not going to sit here and argue.

[C]

And I think it was easily Dax Best and the Cowboys were cooking and the offense was fantastic and it was good. And again, they had the best record in the nfc.

[A]

I was like, that's. That's fair. I just deserved it. It's a good take.

[C]

But. Yeah, I know we keep.

[B]

But it's like not that long ago that that happened.

[C]

And then the point is that literally the season. But I think Dak is boring.

[A]

Here's my thing. And I still don't feel like I have a great answer to this.

[C]

Jared Goff is kind of.

[B]

Jared Goff is very bad.

[C]

I'll never draft Jared Goff.

[A]

And he's in the Netflix show, which now maybe. Maybe they only get boring people in the Netflix shows.

[C]

Yeah. I can't deal with how much they run the ball into the end zone. Yeah, I know. Even though he ended up throwing for like 37 touchdowns. They all came after you were already out of the playoffs.

[B]

I can't. I can't even describe to you how many times Craig texted us during the year. He's like, oh, great, the lines.

[C]

Another rush.

[B]

The Lions are in the red zone. Watch him score.

[C]

I was so upset. I'm like, maybe the fact that Ben Johnson's gone will maybe make them throw more because he's like, less creative running the ball. But it was. It was like clockwork. It's like they're like the 18 yard line. It's like third and nine. I'm like, surely he will throw the ball. It's like some weird handoff to Jameer Gibbs. Of course it's an 18 yard touchdown. Pissed me off.

[B]

So funny. Love it.

[A]

Okay, absolute lightning round now.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

Just gonna name other. A few other boring players and just. Just tell me if they're all boring. Just tell me if you actually think they're a good value. Okay. Like, they're like boring, but just not a question.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Would you actually take them or would you also pass in these guys? Jalen Warren for the Steelers. Yes or no? They fell around. You were thinking about them. They followed you again. Are you actually going to take them or you're like realistically like, yeah, this guy.

[C]

It doesn't move me.

[A]

Right. No. Darnell Mooney for the Falcons.

[B]

I like Mooney.

[C]

Yeah. If he's healthy.

[A]

Yeah. Boring. But I actually think good. Adam Thielen for the Panthers. No, no.

[B]

I kind of like he's one of those players that's like for the first half of the season. I bet it'll be really.

[A]

You give me six weeks and then I'll get it. Juwan Jennings for the Niners.

[C]

Yeah. Again, if he's healthy.

[B]

I think this cafe I fucking love Red herring. Yeah.

[A]

The cat. Yeah. Part of me just thinks he just wants a contract and he's like fully healthy.

[B]

I'm a little worried he's going to just get market corrected immediately by Ricky Pierce.

[A]

Although I, I think pearsall. I just think it's. I think.

[C]

I think they can all be good.

[A]

It's Shannon take both live in harmony.

[C]

I don't know. Last year Joanne Jennings was awesome with Kittle with Debo.

[A]

Another sneaky defense could be bad team like the defense like they might have to also throw Hunter Henry Patriots.

[C]

You know, I guess if you're truly punting on tight end. I think he's a great.

[B]

He's a floor play.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean every year he's just going to be like, here's eight points for you.

[A]

That's the old boring kind of like.

[C]

You can just get that in the waiver where.

[B]

But. Right.

[A]

All right. So that's the all boring team. And again I really do think with the exception of Drake London or Chase Brown, I do think for all these guys it's like don't. You don't have to reach early for them. The whole point to me is I think these guys might fall to you like a little later than you get. And then overall you're going to get awesome stuff. Why did you just look at his computer?

[C]

TK was on Twitter.

[B]

No, I wasn't. I didn't do anything.

[A]

I'm going to start when I see him on Twitter, I'm going to start telling on me. I'm going to start just talking about random shit and just see how long it takes to notice he's like disassociating while I'm going. Fine. Then I'll do some emails before we get out of here real quick, I'll let you get.

[B]

I wasn't reading anything.

[A]

I'll let you guys do dealer's choice here because we have so many episodes. We're recording over the next in la. We're going to Los Angeles after this.

[C]

Yeah, we're catching a flight. Right.

[A]

Do you want to hear about the big law biter here in New York City, or do you want to hear about the person I said X2 on my Amtrak to New York?

[B]

I want to hear the Amtrak story.

[A]

Yeah, okay, we'll do the big law. Biden.

[B]

Yeah, he's teased it a little.

[A]

So I came up from D.C. i took Amtrak, saw my parents for a day, and then came New York City. So you guys, the woman next to me, we're in the quiet car of Amtrak, and you're not supposed to talk, obviously, if you haven't been. It's like, you know, this is for people to sleep or whatever. Small kids. So this woman sits next to me, and she, like, loses her phone. She's really nervous, and it's, like, connected to, like, medical. It's all. Her phone's also medical. She really wants to find the phone, so I help her. It's not. It's not an emergency. You just lost the phone. It was, like, right under the seat. It was fine. But I take two minutes to help her find it. She's very appreciative. Then we sit, we start talking, and she's like, what do you do for work? And I was like, oh, yeah, I work for Spotify. And she was like. I was like, what do you do? I will give you 1,000 guesses what this woman did. She was, like, 80 years old. She had a whole career in this field. And we talked about it for an hour. I will give you as many guesses as you want about what she did.

[B]

Okay. I'm trying to think of, like, why he would be so shocked.

[A]

Jackie was like. Like a private detective.

[B]

Bordello owner.

[A]

Bordello. I don't know what that is.

[B]

Like a whorehouse.

[A]

Oh, Matrix. No, not Matri D. Is that the right one? She was an Egyptologist.

[B]

Oh, right. Hell, yes.

[A]

So she. Aaron Rodgers, dream about Egypt for. We talked about Egypt. I mentioned Rogers, like, immediately. We talked about. She studied ancient Egypt for, like, 50 years.

[C]

Egyptologist.

[A]

And I was like, I was. I, I. It was.

[B]

So did she go into the pyramids and everything and she was.

[C]

The world better have.

[A]

She was the world's leading expert.

[B]

No, she just did paperwork.

[C]

She's been studying Egypt for 50 years. Never been there. Got a lot of books though.

[B]

It's like Heifetz in New York. You ever gone to the Empire State Building? Nah.

[C]

No.

[A]

So we talked about each. She was the. One of the first, maybe the first expert ever on Egyptian jewelry, which was interesting. And she basically was like. And I like when people have like a one sentence pitch in their field and she's like, jewelry is the world's oldest decorative art and it's one of the only things, along with music, it's one of the only things that basically spans every culture we've ever seen, is basically every culture of people on earth, no matter how remote, at every time period, have pieces of jewelry that people wear for. With the implicit. With the idea that it has some kind of protective property or spirit. Like it will either make you healthier or protect you from something. And it. To the point where there's something about jewelry. It's like one of the. It's something in our DNA almost. And it was really interesting to hear her talk about it and like what it meant to the Egyptians. But anyway, I was just also like, how do you even find this shit out? Like it's 4,000 years ago. Like, I don't know this. But also it was funny because the flip side is we were in the quiet car and like we were not supposed to be talking and she had no idea we were in the quiet car. So like we're having this like relatively speaking, very loud conversation. No, I was, you know how loud it must have been if I was kind of like this really interesting. But we shouldn't.

[C]

She was older, she's like 80.

[A]

I don't think she'd give a fuck. So. But you know about me and I kind of don't care. I cared. So imagine how I think everyone on this quiet car heard about the entire conversation.

[C]

They were so interesting.

[A]

Everyone was looking at us and everyone's hearing everything we were saying.

[C]

What'd you say about Rogers?

[A]

Do you know Aaron Rodgers is. She had a. She had a very mature answer. I actually, because I asked her, I was like, do you know the Rogers.

[C]

The deal with questioning?

[A]

I was like, I really was like, how do you feel when you hear some. When you spend your whole life devoted to this? And also obviously, needless to say, woman breaking into that kind of industry in the 70s is, you know, anytime that I'm always interested.

[B]

She must have been. I mean, she just probably an incredible woman.

[A]

You can always glean a lot of wisdom from women, older women who broke into Fields when they were, like, probably the only woman who worked at the building or studied anything in the classes. Like, they always have a lot of wisdom. And she. So I asked her, how do you feel when you devoted your whole life to this, that you hear, like, Aaron Rodgers going in front of millions of people being like, yeah, aliens. Aliens. Who could explain this? Meanwhile, it's like, we're in the 70th floor of the World Trade center, like, building shit's impossible or something. And like, the. And I was, how did that make you feel? And she said, you know, I'm trying to get it right because I'm not a quote, but I want to. Her answer is very good. She basically was like, I tend not to have those conversations because typically they're so deeply intertwined with people's identity that it's frankly not worth getting into. And I thought that was like. That just felt like the correct answer.

[C]

Yeah, it's not really about the pyramid.

[A]

It's not about the pyramids. And I was like, that is such a mature.

[B]

Also, nothing you can say is gonna, like, change.

[A]

Yeah. Like, what are you gonna convince.

[C]

Look at this.

[A]

Yeah, read this. Yeah, Yeah, I thought it. But anyway. So anyway, does she have any, like.

[B]

Really cool stories of uncovering some tomb or something like that?

[A]

I just learned a lot about the pyramid and I. I mentioned a book. We talked about Akhenaten. And she was like, oh, yeah, I wrote a book on Akadan. I was like, did I read your book in college? And this Akada, which I don't. I think was different, but I do want to plug her book. I can't find it right now. Put in the episode notes if you care about Egyptologists.

[B]

That's really cool.

[C]

Super cool.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Do you mind? Can we do that? No, put her book in.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Shout out. I told her. Told her, like, yeah, of course. But yeah, I just. It was the most random thing ever. But I also was so funny because the entire time I was interested, but I'm white knuckling because everyone's staring at us. And she had no idea. But also, if you're. If she find anyone sends this clip to her, you were lovely. She agreed. Yeah, we had a great time.

[C]

That's really cool.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Egypt, baby. Email us at ringer. Fantasy Football Gmail.

[B]

Yeah, that's cool.

[A]

We have so many episodes coming up.

[C]

How'd they get the big rock on top of the other rocks at Stonehenge? Levies police. How are they doing? Another big mystery of how the hell they got those giant stones on Top of one, right?

[B]

Like in ancient times, they have no idea.

[C]

How do you do that?

[A]

Well, it's funny because I. It's funny. It's like, how do we explain?

[B]

I'm like, aliens.

[C]

I'm like, rogers, turn your sights on Stonehenge. Get to the bottom of this. For real, though, if you know how they built Stonehenge, email us.

[B]

We know someone who isn't stonehenge expert.

[A]

Neil DeGrasse. No, I told you the story about Neil DeGrasse. Tyson's actual expertise, his PhD or whatever was on Stonehenge. So he did Manhattanhenge. We were talking about it. He's the one that. Because I always thought Stonehenge's purpose was a mystery. And it's like, super known. And it's a calendar. It's like the sun comes in at certain points. It's like a sundial, basically.

[C]

But for the year, the large stones average 25 tons. How'd they do that?

[B]

I don't know. I can't really conceptualize that.

[A]

Why they call them stone tons. £2,000.

[B]

I know, but it's like, I just can't. Once you get to the. I don't know how heavy that is. Well, very heavy.

[A]

They did a study that Craig's looking.

[C]

I'm just like £50,000.

[B]

Yeah, I know, but it's just a lot.

[C]

So I have Stonehenge pulled up. Do you think you. You and your boys. How long would it take? You guys are just out there. Me and the boys. In your entire life, could you get that rock up there? No. What the fuck are you talking about?

[A]

Your whole life? Of course you could.

[C]

You have. You have no access to modern technology, right?

[B]

Of course you could.

[A]

You have 40 years. You build, you're gonna get some ropes and you figure it out.

[B]

No, absolutely not. What are you talking about?

[A]

You don't have ropes? You don't think we made 40 years?

[B]

Turns out they're not strong enough. What now?

[A]

Pirates of Caribbean. With the proper leverage, like, you don't think in 40 years you could figure that shit out?

[B]

No, I do not.

[A]

That's your only thing you guys have to do all day.

[B]

If I. If I was today doing that.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And I could use.

[A]

No.

[B]

No machinery.

[C]

No, no, obviously not.

[A]

You get.

[C]

You don't have. You can't use a crane supplied. What are you talking about? No, I couldn't get that up there.

[A]

What are you talking. You can lift it. I'm saying if you and a team of like, 15 people had, like, no.

[C]

30 years to build Stonehenge let's do it.

[B]

Let's do a poll. I think it's gonna be a lot of. Really?

[A]

It's one of them. Like, you get 20 years to figure it out, and then you get the whole thing done in, like, six months.

[B]

I would try for a year and be like, we're not gonna be able to do this.

[A]

Am I crazy?

[B]

Too heavy? Yes, you're crazy.

[A]

You have 20 years to figure out how to move it on its side. And then, like, once you figure, you just need a system.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Getting it up on top of that.

[A]

They figured it out.

[C]

Gemini has weighed in. Stonehenge was built in several phases over approximately 1500 years.

[B]

Yeah, I'm like, I'm not gonna figure it out.

[A]

Well, they had to walk to get the stone.

[C]

Why we would do it.

[A]

Oh, I thought the materials are gonna be.

[C]

No, no, I actually, the materials are there. They're scattered around the area. Stonehenge.

[A]

I, I, I, I don't think.

[C]

You don't have to go to, like, wherever and, like, sail with the stones.

[A]

If he's got to create a quarry, that's tough. Yeah, that's tough.

[C]

No, no, no. The. The stones are in your area.

[A]

You know, there's a bridge, maybe.

[B]

I still don't feel like I could do it.

[C]

I think in our modern brains, we think it should take, like, how long? A couple years. How do you do that? This probably took. I mean, if it said Stonehenge took 1500 years, I mean, there are, like, like, decades of generations of people who, like, family. All they did was work on Stonehenge or like that. It took the. When I went to Florence, the. Just the roof of the Duomo Brunelleschi took him 14 years to make it. And it's just like.

[B]

It's like half your, like, adult life.

[C]

Yeah. You would commission somebody to, like, you know, make something, and it was like, oh, this will take you the next 15 years. You'll probably die.

[A]

Your entire family. No, generations of families would make stuff. Generations. Generations of. I've learned this in Paris. Like, generations of masonry. Like, the whole business would just be contracted to building one building. Your father, his father, your son all built it over 100 years, and then it's built this immaculate work the last thousand years, and now we're sitting here in a fucking skyscraper. Bullshit.

[C]

I always, like, I was learning when we were in Florence, you know, learning about Michelangelo and the Medici family and all this stuff. And after Michelangelo made the David, one of the Medicis commissioned him to make 40 statues.

[B]

That's a Lot.

[C]

He started. Michelangelo's like, great. Got started. I think he did, like, two and a half. And of. The guy died, and I'm like, of course he did. He was like, 40 or whatever. And it's like, that would have taken Michelangelo fucking 30 years. Of course you're gonna be dead before that's done. There were so many things where it was like, I want you to build a castle for my wife. He died, like, and she died before, you know, it's like. I don't know. I always find it very funny, the timeline, them knowing how long these things take to make. But maybe they knew that, like, this will live.

[B]

It's like a legacy. This is what. This is what I'm.

[C]

Yeah, but he was like, I want a private garden for my wife, and I want. But. But I don't want her to have to walk through the village to get there. So you need to make a private tunnel. It took, like, 10 years to build a private tunnel. Like, well, she's never gonna see it.

[A]

But then she was like, I actually do want to walk outside.

[C]

She.

[B]

This is how I feel about. This is how I feel about when we. When they talk about making light rail stuff in Seattle, I'm like, I'm never gonna be able to enjoy this, but I want future generations to do that. It's gonna take 30 fucking years till the tracks get to my house.

[C]

Yeah. I just love that the Medici guy was like, I want to build a tunnel for my wife.

[B]

Right.

[A]

That's probably enough for the show. DK has been on Twitter for five minutes. He's not.

[B]

No, I haven't. I just looked at it for a minute.

[A]

Yeah. All right. Thank you, dk. Thank you, Craig. Thank you to the Medicis for the two and a half statues you got. Thank you to Caravaggio. Thank you to Ronick for making this episode. Thank you, Carlos. Thank you, Kai. Thank you, Austin. Thank you everyone who came to the New York live show is awesome. We had a good time. Thank you again to everybody at the Grand Mercy Theater. Thank you to everybody. Thank you to Elizabeth. Thank you. Thank you to everybody who helped us with that. That was so much fun. Thank you to Amy Poehler for letting me sit in her chair. I didn't realize. Like, that's kind of sick. Who am I forgetting? Thank you. Every email is ringer, fancy football gmail.com or get our rankings or fantasy football. The ringer.com for our rankings. Follow us on Instagram if you want the behind the scenes shenanigans of our 15 day trip together.

[C]

We are going to decide the punishment for our ringer fantasy football league this week in LA with Bill Simmons.

[A]

We're going to have Bill Simmons and we're going to decide what the punishment should be for the ringer fantasy football league which we're bringing back on Monday. We're going to have, you know, it's going to be the three of us. We're going to have Bill, we're going to have Mallory, Sean, Sal, House, everybody, Van Lath and we're going to have all these people in the league and we're going to. It's going to be live on YouTube so check that out on YouTube and it's going to be really fun.

[C]

Oh, wait, I kind of want to read the email.

[A]

An email? Email is more punishment. This is your last chance to get punishment ideas before we see Bill.

[C]

I told. So we decided, the three of us decided because we are kind of like the three headed commissioner of this league. We thought it made more sense to do this draft, this live draft without technology. Right? We're doing it.

[B]

It's gonna be a better experience when you're doing it.

[C]

Nobody wants to watch people on their computers. I also just think it's funny. You can print out whatever you want, but it is pencil and paper. That's it.

[A]

Did we wait, could you get people to agree to this?

[B]

I didn't know Craig is ruling with an iron.

[C]

I am. This is a dictatorship.

[A]

I'm happy about that. I think watching a live draft and we're all computers is a little worse.

[C]

So I emailed the group and the league and I said, hey, all technology is prohibited. No laptops, phones, iPads, Nothing will be drafting like the bill did in the 90s. And Mallory said, he said no. Technology is sociopathic and obscene. I'd rather be in a league with Jelly the Bear. You should all be ashamed of yourselves.

[A]

If you're interested in time travel, read a fucking sci fi book. Holy shit. I forgot how competitive Mel is.

[C]

Mal.

[A]

We were in a Mal. Actually like when I was young enough at the company that I was kind of afraid that I could be fired for like a small transgression. I traded, made a trade in our fantasy baseball league with someone who I will not name who was not really being. I was kind of fucking around and I convinced someone not paying attention to give me like their best players. And I sent Mike Trout and I frankly felt that I had plausible deniability on a veto because I gave away the best player in baseball. And. But I got like a bunch of People back. And then mal called me 30 seconds later. She was like, what? And she got. She rallied around. She got the trade VetoeD in like five minutes. She got the vote. She literally whipped the votes like house of cards. In like 15 minutes. She had six people.

[B]

That's hilarious.

[C]

I'm excited for this to get here.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Responded and said, everything happens by design. I am the Nighthawk. You've been warned, dude.

[A]

Van, I didn't realize fans emails on this have been unhinged.

[B]

You know what? We.

[A]

His emails are like, I actually like.

[C]

I'm concerned we should release like a dummy fake episode recommending all the players we like for all of them to listen to before.

[A]

Have you been giving your actual picks this entire time? I've been lying through my teeth.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Thank you, Lord.

[C]

Lauren.

[B]

Thank you. The Bangles.

[C]

Oh, they have one big song.

[B]

I think it's Walk like an Egyptian. Oh, that's what I was. That's where that was the connection I was making.

[A]

I'm very impressed how much. You know the bands who say one hate wonders. I'm very impressed by that.

[B]

The Bengals. Wait, did they have. Yeah, they had Walk like an Egyptian Eternal Flame.

[C]

What's that?

[B]

That's a song.

[A]

Oh, Bangles.

[B]

Like Manic Monday. We've heard that one.

[C]

Just another Manic Monday. Classic Sunday.

[A]

Okay, so they're not a one hit wonder.

[B]

No, they. They were big during that era.

[A]

So can we do this or not? Are we going to get sued for this?

[B]

Fine. Somebody at the show last night came up and was like, porn in the woods. It's a real thing.

[C]

We get like one of those live.

[B]

Show, one guy's like, porn, Porn in the woods, man. And then like fist bump.

[C]

It was like. It was like 1am last night at a bar and we were talking about the porn in the woods thing and one of DK's friends was like, what DK was like. I mean, I wasn't jerking off in the woods.

[B]

No, it's not part of the whole thing.

[C]

I think behind the magazines and then.

[A]

I mean, I kind of assumed.

[B]

I kind of like that's you're like discovering porn for the first time. You're not just like. You don't just open a magazine and start jerking off immediately. First time.

[C]

No, no, no, no.

[A]

I'm going to cut you off with the best here. You don't get to tell me that I'm weird for thinking that when you were looking at porn you were masturbating. I will not accept that I'm the.

[B]

Weird one for I didn't say you were weird. I just said you're wrong.

[A]

It's okay. That's fair.

[C]

Is it weirder to look at porn? It just. And not masturbate?

[B]

Yeah. Just for the plot.

[C]

Yeah. I like Playboy for the incredible.

[B]

I can't wait to find out what happens.

[C]

The funny thing about Playboy is that they had fantastic interviews.

[A]

Right.

[C]

Bill talks about that all the time.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

I was telling.

[C]

I was telling Craig. We were.

[B]

I can't remember what we were doing. I think it was in New Orleans. We came across a Hustler bar or something. I can't remember what it was. And I was like, do you know about Larry Flint? I feel like I'm teaching New Orleans.

[A]

Yeah. I'd never heard of Larry Flint.

[C]

No.

[B]

Larry Flint's story is, like, really.

[C]

He started. The founder of Hustler.

[B]

Yeah. And he got shot. He was, like, very huge proponent of.

[C]

Some free speech CD bar.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

People vs. Larry Flint is a really. I think that's the name of the movie. Very good movie. Woody Harrelson, I believe, played Larry Flint. Let me check. Yeah, I think so.

[C]

Nice.

[A]

Woody Harrelson just wanted to play Larry Flint, you know that. He was like, I'll do it for free.

[B]

Yeah, it was Woody Harrelson. It's a very interesting, like, life that he led.

[A]

So you like the plot?

[C]

Ed Norton, Courtney Love.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And Larry Flint.

[B]

Yeah, he's in it. He's in it.

[C]

Judge Morrissey.

[B]

Anyway, that. That was not you. That passed you by.

[C]

Do you currently.

[B]

Too young.

[C]

Do you own any Playboy or Hustler magazines currently in your.

[B]

No, no, no.

[A]

They're in the woods.

[C]

Linked twice.

[A]

All right. Thank you. No, I'm kidding. I know I did it right. Goodbye. Everyone must be 21 + and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 + and present in D.C. kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com, call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text HOPE NY in New York.