Week 14 Recap:  It’s Mahover, Colts Collapse, Josh “Snow Plow” Allen, Likely a Catch, Notre Lame, and Spring Chickens

Summary

The Ringer Fantasy Football Show — Week 14 Recap:

“It’s Mahover, Colts Collapse, Josh ‘Snow Plow’ Allen, Likely a Catch, Notre Lame, and Spring Chickens”
December 8, 2025

Hosts: Danny Heifetz, Danny Kelly (DK), Craig Horlbeck, Bill Simmons (multiple cameo segments)

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Episode Overview

The hosts break down an eventful NFL Week 14 that changed the fantasy and real-world football landscape as fantasy regular seasons come to a close. With the Chiefs dynasty collapsing, the Colts spiraling, referees making headlines, and standout individual performances, the episode explores shifting team fortunes, NFL controversies, and big fantasy implications.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Chiefs’ Loss — Is The Dynasty Over?

[02:10] - [13:01]

• Game Recap: Chiefs lose 20-10 to the Texans on Sunday Night Football, marking their lowest home point total in a Mahomes start.
• Are the Chiefs Done?
  • Craig: “Is that sort of the end of this dynasty? ...The star people of this franchise were making all the mistakes.” [02:10]
  • Hosts criticize mistakes from Mahomes, Kelce (“flag baiting now?”), and bizarre coaching (Andy Reid’s 4th down tilt).
  • Heifetz on Andy Reid: “That moment was the culmination of ... frustration ... with this offense not working.” [09:11]
  • Simmons: “I’m glad the Chiefs are not going to be in the playoffs. I’m OK taking a year off. ...They can retool.” [11:43]
• Texans Defense Praise: Hosts compare Houston’s D to all-time greats.
  • DK: “Reminds me of prime LOB Seahawks. Just flying around—they’re so fun.” [13:10]
  • Heifetz: “If Stroud and the offense could just be okay, they’re the best team in the AFC.” [13:49]

2. Andy Reid’s 4th Down Decision — Analytics vs. Emotion

[06:00] - [13:01]

• Detailed debate of the controversial 4th & 1 at KC’s own 31.
  • DK: “This is the perfect example of the analytics vs. human beings making decisions.” [06:59]
  • “The Boomers won tonight. They should’ve punted.” [08:37]
  • Heifetz: “Andy Reid was tilting. That moment felt like the end of something bigger.” [09:01]

3. Winners and Losers of the Week

[15:14] - [30:33]

Winner: Chicago Bears (despite the loss)

• Craig: “I just think this team is clearly going to be one of the best teams of the next five years.” [15:22]
• Praise for Caleb Williams’ progression and Ben Johnson’s (OC) impacts.
• Bears’ young weapons (Colson Loveland, Luther Burden, Roma Dunes, DJ Moore) evaluated.
• Packers given props for meeting expectations, starring Christian Watson and Jaden Reed.

Winner: Jordan Love = Brett Favre

• Danny Heifetz: “Love’s touchdowns are so Brett Favy. He’s just chucking balls downfield.” [21:04]

Loser: NFL Referees & Committees

• Heifetz: “My loser today is all the referees, all the committees.” [21:13]
• Recap of blown calls in Packers-Bears, Ravens-Steelers (“replay assist was wrong”), College Football Playoff seeding.
• Simmons: “Nightmare day.” [21:22]
• Extended riff on concussion spotters’ incompetence. [23:06]

Loser: Indianapolis Colts — Catastrophic Collapse

• DK: “The Colts wagon once again has lost a wheel, tipped over ... Died of dysentery and cholera ... This is the worst possible run-out.” [24:54]
• Daniel Jones torn Achilles, Anthony Richardson’s recurring brutal injuries, disaster for fantasy (Pittman, Pierce, Taylor).
• Trade for Sauce Gardner (two firsts squandered). Road ahead is bleak—remaining schedule (SEA, SF, JAX, HOU) looks like four losses. [27:50]
• Simmons: “I think this is one of the most devastating seasons in recent memory.” [25:12]

4. Josh “Snow Plow” Allen Goes Nuclear

[30:50] - [33:08]

• “I am become Death Oppenheimer Award” goes to Josh Allen for his superhuman 250/3 passing, 80/1 rushing, Superman effort in the snow.
  • Heifetz: “He is as fun and purely lovable as any NFL player I can remember.” [31:50]
  • Simmons: “If the Bills don’t make the Super Bowl, it’ll be the most disappointing season of the Josh Allen era… Mahomes, Burrow, and Lamar—none of them to beat.” [32:11]

5. Notable Fantasy Breakouts and Garbage Time Heroes

[35:55] - [40:00]

• Puka Nacua: 7/162/2 — “He’s a maniac.” [36:45]
• Michael Wilson (Cardinals): “Has turned into the greatest receiver of all time... 36 catches in three games w/o Marvin Harrison Jr.” [37:03-39:33]
• Gibson’s Law: “Take Michael Wilson in the second round.” [38:37]
• Tony Pollard: “Flaccid Oppenheimer of the week—23% of his season points came today.” [40:17]

6. Steelers Upset Ravens — Referee Mayhem, Catch Rule Chaos

[42:49] - [54:57]

• Steelers as a “Costanza team”—bet against the narrative, you win. [43:05]
• Major referee mistakes, including:
  • Phantom call extending a Steelers drive.
  • The “Likely a Catch” non-TD for Isaiah Likely—hosts deconstruct the NFL’s tangled catch rule.
  • “If two feet is all you need for a catch, why do you need three for a completion??” [48:38]
  • Botched referee explanations: “Ref couldn’t turn his mic on.” [49:56]

7. All the Bad Quarterbacks Are Suddenly Good (“We’re So Back” segment)

[58:04] - [76:42]

• J.J. McCarthy, Cam Ward, Shadur Sanders, Tyler Shough all shine.
  • Heifetz: “J.J. McCarthy is resurrected. Commanders in shambles. Justin Jefferson almost invisible.” [58:33]
  • Titans win behind Shadur (350+, 3 TDs, rush TD), sparking who-the-hell-knows QB debates.
    • DK: “If Shadur turns out to be good.... Is there a better example nobody knows what they’re talking about?” [67:25]
  • Cam Ward “flashed franchise QB stuff—tough surrounding cast.”
  • Tyler Shough (Saints): “Way faster than I thought... won a rain game with two TD scrambles.” [73:42]
  • On picking next-gen starter: “After today, I’m back on McCarthy.” (DK) [75:55]

8. Fart or Shart: Baker Mayfield/Emeka Egbuka Downturn

[76:42] - [83:07]

• Craig: “I’m starting to worry about Baker... More the latter (career, not just year) for shart.” [78:41]
• Stat dive: Baker QB27 since week 7, 5.3 YPA, dead last in EPA/dropback, bottom tier in off-target rate. [79:28]
• Emeka Egbuka: “Was WR3, now WR40. One double-digit game since week 6.” [79:53]
• DK: “It’s a crisis of faith.”

9. Seahawks Segment: Would You Trade Your Team for Mahomes?

[85:00] - [88:31]

• Fun hypotheticals:
  • “Would you trade every single starter on the Seahawks for Patrick Mahomes?”
  • Discussions of emotional connections; Steph Curry comparison.

10. Referee Signals, Safeties, and icks

[91:31] - [98:37]

• Why is a safety only 2 points? “Should be worth more than a field goal. Four maybe.” [92:47]
• Ref’s “loss of down” and “out of bounds” signals dissected for awkwardness.
• Paying referees and NFL’s approach; mention of the replacement refs fiasco. [95:38]

11. Notre Dame “Opt Out” Tantrum

[98:46] - [102:41]

• Notre Dame failed to make the CFP, chose to opt out of all bowl games.
• Massive scorn:
  • Heifetz: “I am so embarrassed for everybody involved. ...They just told their players it’s okay to quit.” [101:28]
  • Simmons: “You're grabbing the Monopoly board and just throwing it on the ground.” [100:05]

12. Burn Book — Emeka Egbuka

[109:04] - [111:28]

• Egbuka officially enters the Burn Book for failing the “Waddle Model” (double-digit points only once since week 6).
• “He’s like Pat Freiermuth. ...We gotta, that’s crazy.” [110:34 - 111:10]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Andy Reid was tilting. ...It was the culmination of either drives or years of frustration with this offense.” (Heifetz, 09:11)
• “I don’t think it’s Mahomes at all...” (Simmons, [03:39])
• “Stroud just needs to be solid and they can win the Super Bowl.” (Simmons, [13:59])
• “The Boomers won tonight. They should’ve punted.” (Craig, [08:37])
• “Josh Allen is literally just a superhero.” (Heifetz, [31:50])
• “This is the shortest-lived all-in period I’ve ever seen in NFL history.” (Heifetz, [27:41])
• “J.J. McCarthy is resurrected. Commanders in shambles. Justin Jefferson almost invisible.” (Heifetz, [58:33])
• “He’s a maniac.” (Simmons on Puka Nacua, [36:45])
• “My loser today: All the referees and all the committees.” (Heifetz, [21:13])
• “Notre Dame just told their players it’s okay to quit when things don’t go your way.” (Heifetz, [101:28])
• “Shart goes through the underwear ... coming out the pants. I’m worried about Baker Mayfield’s career.” (Craig, [80:02-80:28])
• “Would you trade every single starter on the Seahawks for Patrick Mahomes?” (Simmons, [85:31])
• “I think four. Yeah, I think a safety should be worth more than a field goal.” (Heifetz, [92:47])

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Important Timestamps

| Segment | Topic | Timestamp | |---------|--------|-----------| | Chiefs-Texans, Dynasty Over? | [02:10]-[13:01] | | 4th Down/Analytics | [06:00]-[13:01] | | Bears as “winners” | [15:22]-[17:53] | | Packers, Love, Watson | [20:32]-[21:04] | | Loser: Refs, Committees | [21:13]-[24:16] | | Loser: Colts collapse | [24:54]-[30:33] | | Josh Allen Nuclear | [30:50]-[33:08] | | Fantasy Breakouts / Garbage Time | [35:55]-[40:00] | | Steelers-Ravens / Refs / “Likely a Catch” | [42:49]-[54:57] | | We're So Back: Bad QBs | [58:04]-[76:42] | | Fart or Shart (Baker/Abuka) | [76:42]-[83:07] | | Seahawks Team for Mahomes? | [85:00]-[88:31] | | Referee Signals/Safety Points | [91:31]-[98:37] | | Notre Dame Opt-Out | [98:46]-[102:41] | | Burn Book: Abuka | [109:04]-[111:28] |

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Flow & Tone

The hosts balance insight and banter, with quick-witted debates, in-depth analysis, and friendly ribbing. They infuse the fantasy lens but relate every major NFL narrative to real football consequences and dynasty implications. The show is authentic, frequently veers into tangents (refs, chicken etymology, Mahomes-for-team-trade hypotheticals), but never loses sight of the week's pivotal storylines and actionable fantasy value.

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Key Takeaways (for Non-Listeners)

• The Chiefs/Texans result is a massive franchise inflection point: time to retool around Mahomes.
• Colts’ all-in collapse is an all-time cautionary tale; their season is basically over.
• Bears/Caleb Williams hype is real — the next five years could be theirs.
• NFL officiating, concussion protocols, and replay “assist” are under siege league-wide.
• Josh Allen’s transcendent fantasy output and heroics puts Buffalo in Super Bowl-or-bust mode.
• Young/previously-maligned QBs (McCarthy, Shadur, Shough, Ward) are suddenly fantasy viable and shifting narratives.
• Key fantasy names (Abuka, Pollard, Jefferson) are collapse/disappointment stories, culminating in Burn Book entries.
• Notre Dame’s bowl opt-out is called a disgrace—football programs set culture by response to adversity.

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Burn Book for Week 14

New Entry: Emeka Egbuka (“one double-digit game since week 6, not startable, outscored by Pat Freiermuth”)
Previous: AJ Brown, Roma Dunes, Justin Jefferson

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Listener Homework

• Email the crew with Josh Allen snow nicknames!
• Send in fantasy courts, questions, and intrusive thoughts.
• Include your breakfasts.

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Final Word:
This episode marks a turning point for several NFL franchises (Chiefs, Colts), shows the peril of midseason overreactions (Baker, Seahawks), and underscores the chaos and comedy of football analytics and NFL officiating. If you’re entering the fantasy playoffs, pay special attention to the fallout on the Colts, Bears, and the ascending (or collapsing) young QB class—and maybe, just maybe, fade that “hot” name if he’s smoldering in the Burn Book.

Transcript

[Danny Heifetz]

Foreign.

Welcome to the Ringer Fantasy Football Show. My name is Danny Hypertens and I'm joined by Danny Kaylee and Craig Worldbeck and we are going through all the games from Week 14 of the NFL season, aka the end of the fantasy football regular season. And yeah, the Chiefs just finished a really pathetic Sunday Night Football game which we're going to get to in a moment. And winners, losers burn book and some people that Justin Jefferson could not score this week, including Hunter Jureczyk, right, who.

[Bill Simmons]

May or may not be an NFL player.

With that said, we have a great show for everybody tonight. Stick around. Fitz and the tantrums are here. We'll be right back.

[Danny Heifetz]

This episode is presented by Chime Bank Smarter. This season, fantasy football is all about strategy. Well, here's a winning strategy for your money trade banking fees for fee free banking 1.5% cash back getting paid when you say and a higher APY on your savings. That's a lineup that wins. Stop banking the old way. Bank Smarter through Chime. Chime is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services and the secured Chime Visa credit card provided by the Bancorp Bank NA or Stride Bank NA members FDIC optional services and products may have fees or charges [e-mail] fees info with a qualifying direct deposit earn 1.5% cash back on eligible secured Chime Visa credit card purchases. APY means annual percentage yield. Learn more at Chime we're going to go through all the games from week 14. Winners, losers, everything. But first, we have to start Sunday. Football the Texans just beat the Chiefs 20 to 10. That was really sad at the end. DK, where are you at right now? Do you feel like that obviously feels like the end of the chief season. Did it feel to you like the end of the Chiefs this season or did it feel to you like that was the end of something bigger? Maybe.

[Craig Worldbeck]

I mean, yeah, you have to ask the question, is that sort of the end of this dynasty? They've been dominating for so, so long and they're just not very good anymore. I mean, and especially I think Collinsworth even said it at the end of the game. It was like it was the star people of this franchise that were making all the mistakes. It was Mahomes. It was Kelsey just bobbling that pass right into the defense's hands. It was Andy Reid making the most bizarre fourth down call I've seen in a really long time, which I think we should dig into.

[Bill Simmons]

I think they just gave this game.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Away like they probably should have won this Game. Their defense was absolutely dominating, but I think just a handful of plays really just doomed them in this one.

[Danny Heifetz]

10 points for the Chiefs I think is the fewest they've had. And I'm a home start at home in his entire career. And then obviously the Chiefs, you know, the 10 years in a row of making the playoffs, and then that's down the drain. I don't know. Watching this, do you feel like the Texans are dominant but. Or I mean, obviously the defense is dominant, but this did feel like Kansas City repeatedly could not get out of their own way.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm so upset with the Chiefs, man. They ruined my night. They ruined my whole day. I needed like just a normal day out of Patrick. I ruined just one of the 200 yards in a touchdown. Normal stuff. And it wasn't Mahomes's fault. Rasheed Rice, some of the worst drops I've ever seen on that. On that fourth down at the end of the game, right through his hands. Kelsey, Two drops in a row. Taekwond Thornton dropped that beautiful deep ball by Mahomes in the end zone. No one's gonna remember that play, but that was a dot that he dropped. It was embarrassing. Xavier Worthy. Has Xavier Worthy ever done anything cool?

[Craig Worldbeck]

I remember him from this game for.

[Bill Simmons]

Has he ever done anything memorable after the catch? Xavier Worthy. I say no. And now Travis Kelce's best play now is. Is like flag baiting. That's like all he can bring to the team now is flag baiting. So I. I don't. I don't think it's Mahomes at all because I actually thought. And the offensive line had guys I'd never heard of playing for them because, like, they're losing tackles left and right. They were generating so much pressure. The poor guy was like always having to. His knee was clearly hurt. He still scrambled for 50 yards. He's still such. He's so underratedly, like powerful. Mahomes can still break tackles and just like shake dudes off in a way that I feel like you don't really think of when you think about him running. But man, that was the most frustrating Chiefs game. I think we. I mean, outside of the super bowl, the most recent super bowl, this is the most frustrating Chiefs game I can remember.

[Danny Heifetz]

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[Bill Simmons]

He was definitely probably concussed. They didn't even check him.

[Danny Heifetz]

That's a theme of the entire day we'll have to get to at some point is I don't know what marks, I don't know what the concussion spotters do. I don't know what they I think part of it's 70 year old men that get good tickets and it's like you actually could just watch the game on tv. You'd be better at your job. But I want to go into in particular the decision the Chiefs made at the end of this game and if you didn't watch I actually think it was one of the weirder coaching decisions from a good coach in years and one of the worst decisions Andy Reid's made coaching in with clock management in years which hasn't been a thing for him since like 2019. But DK so the Chiefs were down seven points, 17 to 10. There was like, I believe five and a half minutes on the clock. They have fourth and one at their own 31 yard line and they go for a fourth and one, which is really like a fourth and two. How did you feel before they ran the play? Which always poisoned. What did you think of it before they ran the play?

[Craig Worldbeck]

Hold on. Cause I, I think there was two different fourth down plays that we're talking about here.

[Bill Simmons]

It's the first one.

[Craig Worldbeck]

So the first one, it was 10 to 10. It was a tie ball.

[Danny Heifetz]

Yeah, right. You're right.

[Craig Worldbeck]

There was 10 minutes to go in the game. They were on their own 31 yard line and I think so to me, this is like the perfect encapsulation. This is the perfect example of the analytics versus human beings making decisions and all that stuff. Because actually the analytics, according to. I saw this from Seth Walder on espn, mentioned this, the analytics was like a slight go in that situation, which I think is insane in the first place. But regardless. And then also Tirico I think mentioned it on it too, on, on the broadcast too, that it was like, according to their analytics, it was a like slight go situation where they, they, they should go for it in that situation. However, to me, it's like take everything else that's happening in the game. The Texans cannot complete a pass.

[Bill Simmons]

They have like negative 2 yards in the third quarter.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Do anything. I think Stroud was over 8 or over 10 at that point in the second half. Chiefs were absolutely dominating on defense. Like the Texans literally could not do anything on offense. It was like four straight three and outs to that point. I don't understand why Reed felt the need to go to it, go for it in that situation, considering how much your defense is absolutely dominating. He basically gave them points in that situation.

[Bill Simmons]

The Texans. I'm pretty sure like every time the Texans had the ball in the fourth quarter was in enemy territory. Like because of the Chiefs, because of the fourth downs.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

The Texans didn't even really have to do that much to win this game. Because every time Stroud got the ball in the fourth quarter, he was already on like the Chiefs 35 yard line.

[Danny Heifetz]

Yeah.

[Craig Worldbeck]

So to me, this is the perfect example of. You can look at your models and that can. You can use that as a guideline. But this is ultimately why human beings making decisions in the situation.

I'm usually very, I'm usually like pro. Go for it. Like be aggressive, all that. The Boomers won tonight. They should have punted in that fucking 100% should have punted.

[Danny Heifetz]

Everyone's gonna be like, the analytics, the analytics. The analytics don't make the decision. The head coach makes the decision. This was Andy Reid's fault. Like, let me tell you something. It's not like Andy Reid had got. They're like, hey, Andy, the math says go for it. And he was like, oh shucks. Oh, geez. I guess I have to. That's not how it works. The head coach's job is to hear the percentage chance and then change it and tweak it to his thing. Let me tell you what happened. Andy Reid was tilting. That's what happened. And you I want to see otherwise, but you can't convince me otherwise because especially like the play they ran was incredible. In poker there's a term called tilting which is when you lose a big hand or something crazy happens to you, you lose a lot of money, you get a bad beat and you are very emotional and the next hand or two you make wayward and you are just basically crash out and you're making very emotional decisions instead of like, you know, analytical decisions like as they should be.

[Bill Simmons]

I just joined.

[Danny Heifetz]

What happened?

[Bill Simmons]

I just joined a Japanese horse racing fantasy league now that I'm kicked out of the ringer league. Is that tilting?

[Danny Heifetz]

Exactly. Yeah, there you go. No, no, I mean that's super normal. That happens all the time, I'm telling you. I just think Andy Reid was so frustrated. I think it was years. I think that was. That moment was the culmination of either drives of frustration or years of frustration with this offense not working. I don't know where you want to draw the line, but that was. I. It's hard for me to not think that that felt like it was the entire sense that this could be ending of Andy, frankly. It was this guy being like, we haven't not made the playoffs since 2014 and he was just angry and he just kind of crashed out. And it wasn't that different to me than someone rage quitting and Madden to make that decision there. You cannot tell me that Andy Reid, deep down in his soul souls is happy. He went for it on 4th and 1 at his own 31. I'd be curious if there's anything else in his entire coaching catalog like that moment in a tie game when your defense is playing like that.

[Craig Worldbeck]

It's just bizarre to me, especially in a game like you mentioned earlier, where you're down four starting offensive linemen against a really good defense.

[Bill Simmons]

It's not like it's like they're playing great. It's not like, oh, it's Mahomes. They can get this in their sleep. Like they could move the ball.

[Danny Heifetz]

It was, it was a long one. Which is another thing. The analytics doesn't get into like 4th and 1. It's funny you don't think about it, but. So 4th and 1 can be 8 inches or like, you know, 50. Can kind of both be 4th and 1. And that was closer to like a yard and a half.

[Bill Simmons]

It was like 5, 10 inches.

[Danny Heifetz]

And again, this is the team that doesn't quarterback sneak. But again, I think that that's the point to me is I think Andy Reid just kind of broke character for a little bit. He's a really smart guy and he's. But like that was the emotions of this run over, overcoming them. And I know maybe, look, maybe I'm out over my skis here. They had a great play, but also his genius play had an orbit motion where one of the defensive tackles was so late getting subbed, he sl Clipton fell the nose tackle on fourth and one fell flat on his face. And then they couldn't even stab the ball. Cause they had emotion attached to it. And I'm like, oh my God. But I think that encapsulated the whole thing. To your point, Kelsey Bobbling a ball which again has been problems since week one.

[Bill Simmons]

I.

[Craig Worldbeck]

All the Right, right.

[Bill Simmons]

Get, get. It's over. It's over for Travis. He had a great run. He's a Hall of Famer. He's one of the best tight ends ever. That's it. You know what? I'm glad the Chiefs are not going to be in the playoffs. I'm. I'm happy to take a year off. They can retool, draft a second round wide receiver and a first round lineman, come back next year firing. I'm okay with not having to watch this this year.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Yeah.

[Danny Heifetz]

I don't know.

[Craig Worldbeck]

I. I'm the same dk.

[Danny Heifetz]

I lean toward things. Things don't end well or else they wouldn't be ending. And that's how I feel about this Chiefs team.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't think it's ending well.

[Danny Heifetz]

It's not ending because they still have Mahomes.

[Craig Worldbeck]

They still have Reed. It's just they're not dominant like every year.

[Danny Heifetz]

Yeah, it's lying fallow and again play great and they're young.

[Bill Simmons]

If they don't. Even if they don't make the playoffs, I bet you their super bowl odds next year will still be top four, top five.

[Danny Heifetz]

Absolutely. I think the key here is that Mahomes even with a goddamn knee brace was unbelievable. Tonight. I do have serious questions about this offensive situation because I think at this again I think it's very similar to this is how Andy Reid's tenure with the Eagles ended. And again I don't want to drew too many conclusions because in theory I guess they could still make the playoffs and this is the best defense in the NFL. And if anything it's. It was kind of shocking how good this third string left tackle played against Denel Hunter. That was almost like weird how well he held up. But it's probably better to have new blood. Like we're. I think we're all tired of this team.

[Bill Simmons]

What, what this guarantees is like we won't have an Eagles chief Super bowl which is great.

[Danny Heifetz]

Yes, I and now we do have to give credit to the Texans because they're awesome.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Well, I was going to say that too. I love watching the Texans now. The offense not so much. The defense is so fun to watch. I mean this, this reminds me and again I know like every time I mention the Seahawks people probably grown but it's like it reminds me of prime lob. Like Seahawks they're just, they're just like the Petri hit on. On Rasheed Rice was incredible. They've got an incredible secondary. Kamari, Lassiter, Stingley, Kaylin, Bullock, like all these guys are just flying around. Their linebackers are just like prowling over the middle of the field and hitting guys hard. Like their defensive front is really good at the pass rush. All that stuff. They just, they're so fun to watch defensively now if only they could just do anything on offense.

[Bill Simmons]

Dude, if, if Stroud in the offense could be okay. They're the best team in the afc.

[Danny Heifetz]

This Texans team reminds me of they.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Might be super bowl caliber just because of the defense.

[Bill Simmons]

Stroud just needs to be solid and they can win the Super Bowl.

[Danny Heifetz]

They remind me of like I mean this is a little dramatic but 06 bears with but Rex Grossman was the quarterback. They're not as good as the 2000 Ravens defense but like Trent Dilfer's the quarterback. The, the Bucks with the John Gruden but it's like Brad Johnson's the quarterback. I know that's a little different but.

[Craig Worldbeck]

This is the year to have a defense drag you to the Super Bowl.

[Danny Heifetz]

Yes. And it does. They do feel like one of those all time defenses where the offense is just kind of ebbs and flows and Stroud had felt like he was doing my home's cosplay at Points where he was doing dumb things that then were working out, but he was like, just off but like a third and 17. He's. He's making happen. He was scrambling out of field goal range and getting them back in. I don't know, but I don't know.

[Craig Worldbeck]

What the Texans were doing offensively in terms of, like, what the game plan was, but it felt like for the entire third quarter, the only play they did was they snapped the ball. Stroud backs up as fast as he can and then throws the ball at the foot of some, like, offensive lineman. It's like that was their offense for like, a solid, like, hour.

[Danny Heifetz]

If I, If I had told you one of these teams is down four offensive linemen, you probably would have thought it was the Texans. Okay, anything else in Chief's Texans before we get into the rest of the games here?

[Bill Simmons]

Excruciating game.

[Danny Heifetz]

Okay, let's get to winners and losers here. Craig, I want to start with you. Winners, losers, week 14.

[Bill Simmons]

This. This might sound counterintuitive, but my winner is the Chicago Bears. Obviously, the packers won the game. I think the packers are a really good team. They are clearly a winner of the day and in pole position to win their division. However, I wrote down while this game was. Was tied to, or actually it was while the Bears were down seven and they were about to begin their final drive that ended in the Caleb pick, I wrote down, I don't care what happens in this game, the Bears are a winner. Because.

It was an intrusive thought that I was thinking about as I was watching the game, and it kind of blossomed into, like, you know what? I'm just going to throw it in winners and defend it. I just think this team is clearly going to be one of the best teams of the next five years. And like, I think Caleb is. Is going to be a star. And I think Caleb is really going to work with Ben Johnson. And I think already what we've seen in only 14 weeks is impressive enough and the roster is good enough and Caleb brings that. That spark and can do things like when he's rolling out that nobody else can do. And with Ben Johnson's play calling, I do not think this team is that far away from being really fucking good. They were on the road in Green Bay. They lost by seven. They were one play away from tying the game and going to overtime. It was 7 degrees. This is a. This is a playoff game. I mean, this is, like, as difficult as it gets. They had. They had drives in this game. The Bears of 1717 play drive, a 14 play drive, a 10 play drive. And more first downs in the packers in this game. I thought this was a really, really impressive performance. And again, they were down the entire game. And Caleb kept putting together these long, sustained drives. Coming back, he was not good in the first quarter and I thought he got better every single quarter. And I'm just like fully buying in. And I would like to invest in Chicago right now.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Yeah, I mean, it. They. I think Caleb Williams had like 35 yards at halftime. I mean, the second half he absolutely came alive and kept the Bears in it. Yeah. I mean, obviously tons of credit to the packers for winning that. It was. I thought a couple things for the Packers. Christian Watson, he's really, really good, man. He looked awesome. He just brings this explosive element to their team that they were desperately needing. I thought Jaden Reed being back was huge for them. Overall, good win for the Packers. But I agree with Craig. I think it does feel like this is because you know how there's all these. Those flash in the pan teams that get to like 8 and 3, 8 and 4 or whatever and. But they're just like, they haven't beat anybody and they're not actually any good.

[Bill Simmons]

This was prove it game too.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Show me that you belong. Like, I. I think we went into the season fought. Yeah. Yeah. We went into the season thinking the packers were going to be good. Then they traded for Micah Parsons and they were a Super bowl favorite. And the packers are good and their defense is a top five defense and they are good. And Jord loves playing well. And that's the only reason why I'm not like, congratulating them. I'm sure people are going to be mad. Like, how are you giving the team that lost the winner award?

[Danny Heifetz]

Well, you wait till they get to your loser who's the Green Bay Packers.

[Bill Simmons]

Right. But yeah, it's like the. The packers are doing what we expected them to do. The Bears, the expectation was all over the place. And I think this is incredibly impressive what they've already done. And you can see it. There's a great quote from Josh Jacobs talking about the Bears after the game. He said, you can see what the head coach is preaching. You see how the guys are embodying that even on the field. They are straining a little bit more. They are doing a little bit more. You could tell they are believing in what he's preaching. And I think. I guess I am, too. And I like Caleb business throws still and he still makes boneheaded decisions. But I think what he can do with his legs right now. I think it's like Josh Allen, Caleb number two in terms of what you can do with your legs based on what we've been seeing from Lamar this year. And, and Caleb can still can make throws with his arm that are Aaron Rodgers S, Kai Fitz. You make that comp and like he does some shit when he rolls to his right. That is really, really impressive. And I think Ben Johnson is like sucking the boneheadedness out of him and turning him into a legitimate quarterback. And you can see it already this early on. And so I, I just, I feel like they're going to be good.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Yeah, they feel to me like, I mean, obviously anything can happen still because they're probably going to go to the playoffs. But they feel to me like the team that's just like a year away still, you know what I mean? Like the. This is the beginning of something that could be good for the Bears. But I like, I'm watching that game. I think, I think Colson Loveland is going to be a star, actually. I think what I've seen from him over the last six or seven weeks has been really, really impressive. Like the way they utilize him. I don't know if like the stats have necessarily been like electric or anything like that, but I think he's going to be a really, really good player. You know, if Roma dunes they can ever stay healthy. I think he's going to be a good player. DJ Moore. I think DJ Moore just needs to go to a new team.

[Bill Simmons]

DJ Moore is not going to be on the Bears next year. Luther Burden is good and Luther Burden basically was the number one today. Burden in A Dunes A is a great trio.

[Danny Heifetz]

Just the racing. DJ Boris should have caught the touchdown like that interception. Caleb had two touchdowns on that play. If he had turned earlier.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Touchdown was open. He just floated the pass too much. Like he just missed the throw.

[Bill Simmons]

He missed the throw. Yeah. But, yeah, DJ Moore was open, but I. The more you watch that play, by the time Caleb was throwing, DJ kind of opened up kind of after he released the ball. It was, it was. That was like a real Twitter opinion to be like, DJ Moore is open. I feel like when you're actually in that play, you can't. That's a really hard throw to make to anticipate, but I don't know. That's my. We don't have to talk too much about the Bears because they literally lost the game. I was just impressed.

[Craig Worldbeck]

I like this, like.

[Danny Heifetz]

Yeah. So Bears lost. Yeah. Packers number two seed in the nfc.

[Craig Worldbeck]

No, I like the Packers.

[Bill Simmons]

The packers are meeting their expectations. They're doing what we wanted out of them, which is impressive. I think the Bears just exceeded our expectations so much, especially in this game.

[Danny Heifetz]

No, it's true. Caleb is aesthetically Rogers. And Jordan Love is. Today, I think, was a big Brett Favre game for Jordan.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, he had the worst throw of the day.

[Danny Heifetz]

Jordan, so I'm so mad at Solak.

[Bill Simmons]

But he was great. He was really good today.

[Danny Heifetz]

Solak posted it. Exactly what I've been trying to say about Love for like five years, which is. Or three years, I guess, which is. Jordan Love doesn't throw that many interceptions, but when he does, they're the stupidest interceptions you've ever seen in your life. And Jordan Love did one out of the gate and then he settled down and he had. Honestly, his touchdowns are just so Brett Favy. They're not Roger Z necessarily. And Jordan Love just shucking balls downfield.

[Bill Simmons]

He was awesome.

[Danny Heifetz]

He was fantastic.

[Craig Worldbeck]

And, and Josh Jacobs is so good, too.

[Danny Heifetz]

I know.

[Bill Simmons]

And Jane Reed back. Like, they're. I, I, I. They're a team that could win this well. Definitely. Their defense is fucking awesome.

[Danny Heifetz]

Since packers fans are so angry about you talking about the Bears, then I'll shut up the packers fans and my, My lo. My loser today is all the referees and all the games and all the committees.

[Bill Simmons]

Nightmare. Nightmare day.

[Danny Heifetz]

The referees, starting with anytime human beings.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Have to make decisions, all.

[Danny Heifetz]

Anyone in charge of adjudicating anything did not do very well this weekend. I. Packers, Bears. I mean, we don't have to get into everything, but I mean, Luther Burden just grabbed Keyshawn Nixon, the Packers cornerback, by the throat like he was Darth Vader. And then Luther Kishan Nixon was like, get off me. And then they threw a flag on him. Micah Parsons probably was held 12 times. They probably should have thrown four to five holding flags. And he didn't get any calls, which was crazy.

[Bill Simmons]

But.

[Danny Heifetz]

But if you just go down the line, every game was so bad. The Raven Steelers game was like, botch job. Like, like probably the. Maybe the worst referee game of the entire season was Raven Steelers Sunday night Football. The rarely seen replay assist zooms in and then the changes of call. The referees have to get on and be like, replay assist was wrong.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Challenged replay assist.

[Danny Heifetz]

They challenged replay assist, which I cannot stress enough, goes to replay assistant replay assist in New York was like, we changed our minds. Then they threw the red flag and made them watch it again. And they were like, oops, we were wrong. And they had to admit it.

[Craig Worldbeck]

God, this is so ridiculous.

[Danny Heifetz]

Which is so sad that they had to ch. But anyway, all overall and not even getting into the College Football Playoff, which I want to talk about later. But the committee changing. No, they had Notre Dame and Miami ranked back to back. Even though Miami had beat Notre Dame. They had Notre Dame ahead. And they somehow on Tuesday of like five days ago were like, yeah, Notre Dame's out of Miami. Neither team plays. And then they flip Miami, Notre Dame. I don't know what the committees. I want to talk about Notre Dame, but overall, I just think the referees were.

Just after. Not that bad of a season. Just everyone was horrible today.

[Bill Simmons]

I think I should be the ref of the NFL. I think if it's me on my couch, I get 99% of calls.

[Danny Heifetz]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

And I will also diagnose concussions on the spot as well.

[Danny Heifetz]

I actually think you should be the head ref. I'm going to be the concussion spotter for the NFL. I could do it better.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Have people that do. They are the concussion spotters. No one has access to actual, like, game footage.

[Danny Heifetz]

It feels that way.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Are they just like standing on the sidelines? They're like standing behind all the 6 foot 5, 300 pounds.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, it's like a 7 guy trying to see over.

[Craig Worldbeck]

They're like holding onto their shoulder pads, jumping over them.

[Danny Heifetz]

I deadass think that's the problem. They give these people, these. These doctors who probably need glasses, good seats. They need to just not be there. They don't need to be there. Just let them watch the goddamn game on television. They would do a better job.

[Bill Simmons]

You need to have doctors on the sideline. The people at home are watching and then they call in and say, hey, Rasheed Rice, number four, check him.

[Danny Heifetz]

We should be able to go check it like it's American Idol. It's unbelievable. Like T. Higgins, which, I mean, T. Higgins is the top five receiver in fantasy this week. But I'm like, T. Higgins, who had a concussion last week. I don't know how Tegan stayed in the game, but there's. It's crazy how much the concussion spotters.

[Bill Simmons]

There was some report on T. Higgins. It was funny. It was like T. Higgins, who is in and out of the game today with concussion, like, symptoms. I'm like, in and out of the game. If he's in and out multiple times that he has a concussion, it's snowy.

[Danny Heifetz]

Hits his head on the frozen turf and I'm like, what is going on?

[Bill Simmons]

Anyway, Coming out woozy. And then they put him Back in and he comes out woozy.

[Danny Heifetz]

It's. I. It's this crazy. Ironically, this is also almost definitely why they banned smelling salts, is because they were like, wait, so we're providing these things that let them go in? No, no, you gotta be. Bring that from home. That's not our thing anyway. So, yeah. T gets brought his own smelling salt, so it's fine. TK who's your loser of the day? Week 14.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Gotta go with the Colts. The Colts wagon once again has lost a wheel, tipped over into the river. Fording the river. Died of dysentery and cholera and all that stuff. I mean, I can't, like, can you even imagine being a Colts fan right now? This is the worst possible runout I could have actually imagined at this point.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I think this is one of the most devastating seasons in recent memory. Like, starting that hot and ending this way is about as bad as it gets. It's worse than just being bad the whole time.

[Danny Heifetz]

Yeah.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Sorry for burying the lead. Daniel Jones tore his Achilles today in the game, and the. The problem here is obviously this is still a pretty good team, but now they're down to. Riley Leonard is going to be their starter. Anthony Richardson is on the injured reserve. He's not coming back. Like, he's still, I think, having issues with his.

[Danny Heifetz]

He is Anthony Richardson. So he was doing that. I know it's funny.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Injured reserve because he hit himself with a. With a band.

[Danny Heifetz]

So it's funny because that happened. But it's very serious, though, because actually apparently because he broke his face with a freak band accident. Apparently they were really worried about his eye, like maybe losing the eye or something. So to go to the hospital. He had blur. This happened in October. He. Stephen Holder at ESPN reported that Anthony Richardson had blurry vision in the eye till like a week and a half ago, man. So, like, it's not even whether his face is healed. It's like they don't even know about his vision yet. So he's. I don't know if he comes back to see. They can't even use this as a way to see Anthony Richardson play football. But, yeah, Riley Leonard, who. I mean, speaking of Notre Dame, couldn't play. He couldn't throw the ball in college last year. Never. Now he's going to run the cold. This is a disaster. I mean, fantasy. If you have Michael Pittman or Alec Pierce, even Jonathan Taylor in fantasy, this is a catastrophe for you. Tyler Warren going to the playoffs, number.

[Craig Worldbeck]

One or number two, tight end or whatever, coming into the.

[Bill Simmons]

He's been slowing down a lot. He has, I have Tyler Warren and he, he's single digit fantasy points five of his last six games. So he was already slowing down and it's coming to a stop now.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Yeah.

[Danny Heifetz]

And if you're a real life Colts fan, I mean I, I, this is, I mean we were, I know dubious at best of the trade, but they gave up two first round picks for Sauce Gardner which we felt even if the Colts were a Super bowl contender was a hefty, hefty price to pay for a cornerback. And that was assuming Sauce Gardner would be the guy he was two or three years ago, not this year or last year. Sauce Gardner gets a non contact calf strain that their word could become an Achilles. And then Daniel Jones tears his Achilles.

[Craig Worldbeck]

So then after breaking his other leg.

[Danny Heifetz]

After break has a fracture in the other. That's the other biggest loser of the day is Daniel Jones's friends from Duke who made the, the knee, the knee scan with the app. You know, I don't think that went very well. But no, I mean it's, it's, I, I think this is the shortest lived all in period I've ever seen in the NFL. They traded two first they got literally Sauce Gardner played partial snaps. They won. They didn't win one game with Sauce Gardner when he played a full game and then he got hurt. This is a, and they have no first. Here's the other thing. The Cults might miss the playoffs.

[Craig Worldbeck]

They're like, they're projected to miss the playoffs.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean the Texans and the Jags are surging. One of those twos are going to win the division. The other one's probably going to be the wild card, the Colt.

[Danny Heifetz]

Have you seen the Colts next four games?

[Craig Worldbeck]

Yeah, the Colts beat. Sorry. By the way, the Colts lost to The Jags today 36 to 19. Their next four opponents at the Seahawks against the 49ers who are against all odds still really in and still playing well against the Jags at home. So that's obviously a big one for them. And then they finished the year at Houston. So good luck Riley Leonard.

[Bill Simmons]

They're probably not going to win a game.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Best of luck to you in all that.

It's hard because I could from the Colts perspective, from the leadership of the organization, from their perspective, I can understand why they're like, if there's any time to go all in, like now is the time. Like our offense is an absolute wagon. You know, we're in a division that's all like up for. We could definitely win this division, blah, blah, blah. Like, this is a weird year. No elite teams. I can understand the arithmetic of, like, going all in and making this Sauce Gardner trade, but truly, like, can't imagine a way, a worse way that it could have gone down. Like, this is like, horrific in. In terms of how it's run out.

[Danny Heifetz]

Victor's right to spoils. And it's like, you know, if the Rams had done anything other than trading all their first eight years in a row without a first round pick, and then they ended up winning a Super bowl in their home stadium, they had just built. Any other runout, we'd make fun of them. But the reality is the culture now, the cautionary tale at quarterback in terms of taking Anthony Richardson. And they're the cautionary tale at the trade deadline now of giving up two first since the next GM is going to take a risk and spend two firsts. So in a pick, in anything.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Here's the question. What do they do with Daniel Jones now? Because Daniel Jones might not play next year. Well, I mean, he probably will, but, like, we've seen what guys coming off of Achilles injuries look like.

[Danny Heifetz]

Daniel Jones is not going to get surgery on the Achilles for a week. I gotta remember when Aaron Rodgers toys. Achilles is week one. When Kirk. Kirk Cousins was week five and he still was iffy last year. They were in there in their late 30s. Daniel Jones is not getting surgery on that thing for, like, probably, I don't know, two days to. To maybe 10 days. Like, he's getting surgery in mid December. He's going to, what, get reps in seven months, eight months. Like, he's also a mo. His whole thing is mobility. It's like, you want pocket passer Daniel Jones. Like, no, they're. They have to bring in competition for Richardson next year.

[Bill Simmons]

I think they'll. They'll bring in somebody. I think they'll sign Jones to. Because a smaller deal.

[Craig Worldbeck]

And I. Yeah, because he's a free agent, by the way.

[Danny Heifetz]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. I think he'll bring in somebody who's like, bridge, like. And then have Daniel Jones try to come back and stick to. And give Daniel Jones another go is my guess.

[Danny Heifetz]

I think Jones, yeah, he probably has to go back to Indianapolis to rehab or. I. It's. It's. It's too bad. Maybe it goes to Minnesota.

[Craig Worldbeck]

I don't know.

[Danny Heifetz]

It's too bad. But I. Overall, the reality is The Colts started 7 and 1, and then there's a reality they finished 2 and 7. They're facing two of the best defenses in the NFL on the road. And then in the next four weeks, the Seahawks defense, which in fantasy, the only player with more fantasy points than the Seahawks defense the last two weeks is Josh Allen. That's who they're playing next week. And then the Jaguars who just crazy. Beat him by 17. So the Colts. I, I am genuinely sorry for the Colts.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean that and that Colts loss, I mean it makes the, the Chiefs loss even more devastating because I was the Colts losing out on Daniel Jones. Now I'm like, man, if the Chiefs can get by the Texans, they have a real shot to be the wild card now because the, the AFC south is not. There might only be one team, but the Chiefs still lost. And so now it's Houston's spot to lose.

[Danny Heifetz]

Crazy. The I am become Death Oppenheimer award for player who went nuclear. I, I mean, I think it has to be Josh Allen for the, I mean the Bills. I mean Josh Allen's a superhero, man. The Bills beat the Bengals 39 to 34 today. Josh Allen completed 22 of 28 passes, 250 yards, three touchdowns. Two of Josh Allen's three touchdowns were just on fourth down, including a laser to Khalil Shakir. That was one of the dumbest things I've ever seen, except that he just can. He has a fucking bazooka. Joshua ran nine times for 80 yards. Basically hit a 40 yard touchdown run that looked like the Most effortless goddamn 40 yard touchdown run I've ever seen from quarterback. He had another run in third 15. That ice the game. Number one quarterback in fantasy today. Number one quarterback in fantasy on the season for Josh Allen. He's wearing the hats to the stadium that are the drawings of the kids in the pediatric cancer center in the local hospital in Buffalo. Like he is literally, he's just a superhero. I think he is as fun and amazing as, and pure and just purely lovable to watch. And as a guy, as any court, as any NFL player I can remember.

[Bill Simmons]

Honestly, I agree with you. And I think now, even though they're not going to win their division, I think if, if the Bills don't make the super bowl this year, it will be the most disappointing season in the Josh Allen era. Mahomes is not going to make the goddamn playoffs. So you don't have to worry about losing to Mahomes, Lamar and the Ravens.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Burrow is not going to make the playoffs.

[Bill Simmons]

Burrow's not going to make the playoffs.

[Danny Heifetz]

No Lamar, no Burrow.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean if they, they have the top odds of any AFC team.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Can you get Past the ball right now.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, I mean if you can't get through Drake, May, Bo, Nick, C.J. stroud, like the Bills need to make the Super Bowl.

[Danny Heifetz]

Ooh, that is a great call, Craig. I was thinking that today. You're so right because I was thinking today I was like, can Josh Allen win a Super Bowl? So we can just skip to the. Where is he rank among the best quarterbacks?

[Bill Simmons]

What is the excuse now? Like if you have no Mahomes La or Burrow or anybody to get through and you can't even make the game. That is going to be.

[Danny Heifetz]

And this is the easiest schedule they've had in, in five years too. And they. Yeah, I. You're. Yeah, you're right, Craig. I. It was amazing also. Yeah, fuck, you are right. They better make it. I can't wait for them to lose to the Texans or whatever the divisional round. I, I thought also did Josh Allen in the snow. I haven't checked this. I'm pretty sure that he averages 45 fantasy points.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Lieutenant Ronald, he's a polar bear.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Ron Spears running through Foy or whatever it was. I mean he was just. Yeah, it was incredible.

[Danny Heifetz]

Can you even imagine. Just forget football. Can you, can you personally imagine running full speed on snow actually like letting it loose?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Danny Heifetz]

Can you imagine sprinting? He looks, he's so much better than everyone but the, the Bengals. This was so. I thought this was the most fun game to watch. Like purely fun game to watch.

[Craig Worldbeck]

I mean Burrow looked amazing in this game too. Other than two just crazy picks.

[Bill Simmons]

The reality of this game is like if you kind of watched it, you're like the Bengals kind of should have won. They were playing better the first like three, the first three quarters the Bengals were winning and were better.

[Danny Heifetz]

Joe Burrow had zero. I mean he hasn't played a lot of games this year. But Joe Bur had no picks the entire season and then he had two picks in back to back plays that The Bills scored 21 points in five minutes of game time. The Bills were down 10 and then Josh Allen is a 40 yard touchdown run. Joe Burrow, who had no picks to that point in the season has one of the most JJ McCarthy Carson Wentz ass looking picks you'll ever see where he. It looked like Joe Burrow, like it looked like when you do pop a shot, like he just kind of like tried to just launch it over Christian Benford.

[Craig Worldbeck]

He thought about it too much because he's trying to just like lob it over the defender.

[Danny Heifetz]

That play I couldn't Believe this. So next gen stats that keep track of win probability that play. But burrow through the pick was the biggest swing of win probability for a play outside the two minute warning in the entire time they've been measuring win probability switch the win probably by 60%. Then he threw a pick on the next goddamn play.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, that one that was just a tit ball that wasn't his fault. But the first one was one of the worst interceptions you'll ever see. And it's like if that were Max Brosmer, everybody be freaking out. But of course it's a good quarterback so you kind of have to forget about it. But it was also it's. It's the, it's the double stink when you. You get tipped and then it's just you versus the defender now and then you get trampled. Yeah it's like the double whammy. It's like punched and kicked which that.

[Danny Heifetz]

Was Jaden Daniels today. And then he landed on his like bad, his bad arm, his bad elbow. He got blocked into bracing himself on his bad arm and it was like oh yeah right. Like I. Why did you think that that might not have happened when you just came back and plays football?

[Craig Worldbeck]

Burrows throw to Higgins. Burrows throw to Chase Brown. I mean Burrow was playing really well for the most part. Obviously those picks we're back breaking but.

[Danny Heifetz]

T. Higgins doing it with one hand second touchdown one hand while the defender's holding the other one post concussion for the third time and however many times you know it's pretty impressive.

[Bill Simmons]

Josh Allen doesn't have a nickname, does he?

[Danny Heifetz]

No, it's because the three syllable guys nicknames he.

[Bill Simmons]

Should it be something snow related or like cold weather related? Because it feels like he's the one quarterback who gets better when it's cold and snowy. He needs something.

[Danny Heifetz]

He's like Derrick Henry.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know if it's like the snowplow or something but he needs a nickname.

[Danny Heifetz]

Email us about nickname.

Oppenheimer today.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Pukinakua. I mean man, not much of a game here obviously as the Rams just absolutely boat race the Cardinals in this game. But. But Puka Nakua. Seven catches, 162 yards and two touchdowns. He scored 32 points on the day the wide receiver won. He his second touchdown I believe was really really impressive. He just went over the guy spun in the air, landed and then B basically backpedaled into the end zone. This guy's incredible. He had another really nice one handed catch earlier in the game too. I mean it's just like his connection with Matt Stafford is second to none. He is the wide receiver two on the season. Just to recap kind of where he is, he's just slightly behind JSN Jackson. Smith and Jigba had two touchdowns again today. So obviously these are like the two best receivers in fantasy right now. Two of the best receivers in the NFL. So just wanted to shout out Puka, you know, not much to talk about from that game, but he looks amazing.

[Bill Simmons]

He's the only wide receiver in the league that I would describe as a maniac.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Yeah, 100%. He's a.

[Bill Simmons]

He's a maniac.

[Danny Heifetz]

Yep.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Also a maniac. Michael Wilson for the Cardinals, who has like turned into the greatest receiver of all time since Marvin Harrison has been injured.

[Bill Simmons]

It's such a bad Look.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Michael Wilson, 142 yards and two touchdowns again today. Dude scored over 30 points in fantasy.

[Danny Heifetz]

I know it was a lot of garbage time, but Michael Wilson, I mean, Marvin Harrison Jr. Has 40 catches this year, I believe the three games Marvin Harrison Jr's not played. Michael Wilson has 36 catches in those three games. 36 catches. Marvin Harrison is 40 on the whole year.

[Bill Simmons]

Michael. Michael Wilson joins only Jamar Chase and Puka Nukua for players to have three games with 10 plus catches this year. And he's basically only had four games as like a relevant player.

[Craig Worldbeck]

How high if. If Jacoby look, because there's been a bunch of like, reports and rumors this week the Cardinals are going to trade away Kyler Murray, which seems obvious.

[Bill Simmons]

If somebody will take him.

[Danny Heifetz]

Yeah, I was going to say somebody.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Will, I think, because there's just not that many quarterbacks in the world and he's still a starting caliber quarterback, even if he's not as good as everybody kind of thought.

[Danny Heifetz]

I mean, is he. Because where's.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Yes.

[Danny Heifetz]

Can I actually push back on that for a moment?

[Craig Worldbeck]

But someone is going to trade for him.

[Danny Heifetz]

You said probably would have been ranked 30th to 32among starting caliber quarterbacks.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Right. Somebody's going to talk themselves into trading for.

[Danny Heifetz]

I mean, they literally put him on IR rather than competing with Jacoby for saying no.

[Bill Simmons]

I always joke that he, he just feels such like a Raider, but I'm like, are the Raiders going to trade for him?

[Danny Heifetz]

I don't know.

[Bill Simmons]

So I can't trade for him anyway.

[Craig Worldbeck]

I mean, I. I don't know. I can't see the future, but I. I think the scarcity thing will matter. But what I was going to say was say Jacoby Brissette, because I think he's still under contract next year. He's the starter going into the season. Next year. Where are we going to rake Michael Wilson in fantasy?

[Bill Simmons]

Well I'll tell you over the last five weeks he is the wide receiver four. So I'll probably put him there.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Is he gonna be a first round fan?

[Danny Heifetz]

That's one. We should make that a tattoo right now of just like just take Michael Wilson in the second round.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Harrison Jr. Isn't he over?

[Danny Heifetz]

All right. I think that people, people.

[Craig Worldbeck]

How could you not guns. People stick to their guns.

[Danny Heifetz]

How could you ever take Marvin Harrison Jr. Over Michael Wilson?

[Bill Simmons]

Is he the next Devonte Adams were like just like the first three seasons of his career were mediocre and now he's just going to be incredible.

[Craig Worldbeck]

That's actually bad.

[Danny Heifetz]

Craig.

The I know a lot of it's garbage time with Michael Wilson and like especially today Marvin Harrison has a.

[Bill Simmons]

Lot of garbage time too. Why isn't he racking up catches?

[Danny Heifetz]

Kind of what I was gonna say. Marvin Harrison again, he's a super average player. He's had a couple drives this season that were good in clutch moments. He's mostly done other in garbage time. Michael Wils. I know I again I know that it's a lot of garbage time but also it's a lot of stats. There's a lot of players that get garbage time. This guy has almost like 450 yards in the three games without Marvin Harrison. I, I that you know what it.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Reminds me of is Fuck. Who's the so the, the Cowboys receiver from like the early Miles Austin. Miles. He reminds me so much of the Miles Austin's emerge.

[Bill Simmons]

He was Miles Austin was such a frustrating fucking fantasy player to have.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Yeah. But he just came out of nowhere.

[Bill Simmons]

You know what I mean?

[Craig Worldbeck]

And then all of a sudden he was just like 300 yards, 250 yards.

[Bill Simmons]

Crazy games. Miles Austin.

[Danny Heifetz]

Okay. Yeah. Michael just Michael Wilson thing is unbelievable. Also we got to mention Blake Corum in that same game also was the number three running back on the entire day. Well we're talking about Oppenheimer. Blake Corman 128 yards and two touchdowns.

Any of their Oppenheimer's correct?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. I'd like to shout out Tony Pollard for the flaccid Oppenheimer award for the most insignificant fantasy explosion of the year.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Tony, how many people started Tony Pollard?

[Bill Simmons]

Email us if you if you started Tony Pollard he had 160 yards, two touchdowns. He was the RB2 on the day. Tony Pollard scored 23% of his season long fantasy points today. A fourth basically of his fantasy points of the season was today.

[Danny Heifetz]

He probably scored 18% of it on.

[Bill Simmons]

Two runs and this was in a Titans win over the Browns, which now he volts your New York Giants to the number one pick in the draft.

[Danny Heifetz]

Right now is it Volt or is it more like low? You know what I mean?

[Bill Simmons]

Like it's more like drops, ratchet, stinks, I don't know. But congrats.

[Danny Heifetz]

Well, you know this is the best thing that's happened to the Giants in weeks. But I'm sure they'll find a way to blow the number one pick cause they always do. Very likely Enough about my team. I want to get to your team Craig, Steelers, Ravens but first, the Ringer Fantasy Football show is brought to you by FanDuel football fans, the best way to game day is on FanDuel. FanDuel is your home for all your favorite NFL bets, from yards to touchdowns to who will win. With FanDuel, any play can be the play of the game. And FanDuel is giving all customers a 30% PBT for the Eagles versus Chargers game tonight, Monday Night Football. So make FanDuel your go to app for any snap. Head to FanDuel.com Ringer Fantasy play your game with FanDuel. An official sports betting partner of the NFL must be 21 plus in present in select states or 18 plus in present DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Opt in required bonus issued as non withdrawable profit boost tokens. Restrictions apply including any token expiration and max wager amount. See [e-mail] gambling problem. Call Wayne 800, Gambler or visit rg-help.com call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut. This episode is brought to you by United Airlines. Flying just got easier with the United Airlines app. Get real time flight updates like a live countdown clock to boarding even if your screen's locked, as well as play by play directions through the airport with a personalized map. And if you want to make a game time decision and go home early or stay longer, there are no fees to change your flight. Get the united [e-mail] app no fees to change your flight Excludes basic economy applies to flights originating in the US Fare difference may apply. It is so over. We're so back.

[Bill Simmons]

I think we need to. We need to keep track when we do the rewatchables at the end of the year we have to keep track of who won the who flip flops the most. Yeah and it's probably the team I'm about to speak about.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Well, we've already made. We've already made several montages of Craig flip flopping on the Steelers. So it's.

[Bill Simmons]

It's. This is what it is. This is the Steelers experience, and it's why they're actually easy to bet on and why we've been so. So we've hit on them so many times this year for Ringer 107, because they're the Costanza team. When everything seems like it's going one way, you just do the opposite, and it's correct. They look terrible. Last week, they're playing the Ravens. Of course they're going to beat the Ravens. Everybody wants Mike Tomlin fired, including me. Rogers is yelling at his teammates. The fans are booing, renegade. This is exactly the time you bet on the Steelers. And of course they win this game. They beat the Ravens, they take pole position to win the AFC north and make the playoffs, blah, blah, blah. They came out the gate looking great. I have to say, when Rogers feels good. Rogers still looks good. And there was a great quote that dk I would like you to comment on. Rogers was asked after the game about how successful he was on the move today. He was really good outside the pocket, 100 yards and a touchdown.

[Craig Worldbeck]

He was looking sprightly out.

[Bill Simmons]

He ran in a touchdown.

[Danny Heifetz]

Looked good.

[Bill Simmons]

First play in the game. 50 yard, right in DK Metcalf's lap. Yeah. But they asked Rogers about him on the move today, and he said, you'll understand this. When you're 40, some days you feel better than others. You wake up, and there's no specific reason why today I felt great. Maybe because I got such beautiful grass.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Field, but dk, it's so fucking relatable.

[Bill Simmons]

Do you. You know what that feels like, to just wake up and you're like, this is a good day.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Oh, 100%. Sometimes, like, it's like, it's completely. Once you get to be this age, it's completely hit or miss how tired you are in the morning. You know what I mean? Like, you wake up and you get out of bed, you're like, man, I'm so tired today. And then some days you're like, just, I could conquer the world right now.

[Bill Simmons]

Because you guys are basically the same age. Rogers just turned 42. And I. I don't know if this.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Is like a year older than Rogers.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know if this was an NBA Sentel thing, but there was a. There was. Rogers, like, threw a little birthday party for the receivers. And they, like, brought him a cake and sang to him. I don't know if that was real.

[Craig Worldbeck]

I think, I think so, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Which I thought was really funny.

[Craig Worldbeck]

I read the same thing. I don't know.

[Bill Simmons]

All his new buddies, Adam Thielen and Marquez Valdez. Scantling. But anyway, yeah, you can.

[Craig Worldbeck]

There's days, Craig, you just wake up and your body hurts for no reason. Like you don't, like you slept weird.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, yeah.

[Craig Worldbeck]

It's just something that happens, man.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm starting to get to feel that my hangovers are now two days, not one. Yeah, I'm kind of entering that range. But anyway, Roger still looked great. I still think he can make throws that few quarterbacks can make in the league when, when he's, when he's feeling right. And.

They played a pretty good game today. I wouldn't even say they were like, dominant, but they played a pretty good game today. And I actually think it's a, it's a worse loss for the Ravens was. Than it is a better win for the Steelers.

[Danny Heifetz]

Well, the Steelers, I think the Steelers and the referees played really well today versus the Ravens.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Because they, the, the league really wants the Steelers to, to score seven points in the wild card round. That's what they want.

[Craig Worldbeck]

I don't think it's rigged.

[Bill Simmons]

I think it's just incompetent.

[Danny Heifetz]

Yeah, exactly. It's. Yeah. Never assuming. Yeah, never assume malice with this incompetence. I think this is the most incompetent refs, including the referees, who had to review their own call and get challenged twice to look at it again. I think this group was the most incompetent.

[Bill Simmons]

Do you want to talk about the most controversial play of the day?

[Danny Heifetz]

I, I, I, Yes, I think we have to, because here's the reality. The Ravens lost by five and the referees cost the Ravens 11 points in this game. Like the, I mean, the one that's going to get forgotten is the field goal that Chris Boswell hit. And then the Ravens were called for roughing the long snapper, basically, which was just wrong. Like, it was just a wrong call.

[Bill Simmons]

Terrible call.

[Craig Worldbeck]

And then I hate when refs, like, pull some random obscure thing out of their ass just for no reason.

[Danny Heifetz]

Like if you.

[Craig Worldbeck]

God, that drives me insane.

[Danny Heifetz]

I, I mean, that cost the Ravens four points because the Ravens, I mean, that was three points. The Steelers then got a touchdown in the next play. So that was a four point swing. And again, five point game. But the Ravens, toward the end, as time is expiring, we're around field goal range. So just that one play that's going to get forgotten. The Ravens might have been able to win in a walk off field goal, but the bigger one and the one that we have to talk about is the Isaiah likely touchdown. That was like two feet down. You get a third step. So DK two part question. Did you think it was a touchdown and do you know what a catch in the end zone is? Do you know what a catch.

[Craig Worldbeck]

I need to answer the first question first because I don't know. Like, I think we've gone full circle because there. There was a time early in my career where no one knew what a fucking catch was. Yeah, it felt like the NFL figured it out a little bit and then it wasn't like a big deal anymore for a while. Like for three or four years. Like, we haven't really talked about like, what's a catch? For a while. And then this happened and I legitimately, I'm like, I don't know if that should have been a touchdown or not. You know what I mean? Like, he clearly had two feet down and the ball. And you could make the argument him holding the ball out like that is a football move because he's trying to keep it away from the fucking defense. Was a. I think you could make an argument, however.

[Danny Heifetz]

Couldn't agree more.

[Craig Worldbeck]

However, it's even in the rule book. If you reach for like a first down or if you like reach forward, it's. It's technically a football move. However, the way that they've been calling it this year is you have to get that third foot down to be like a. What is it? A movement common to the game or something?

[Bill Simmons]

I have it here. I have the quote from the NFL Vice President of instant replay, Brian Butterworth.

[Danny Heifetz]

Stop. Stop it. No. Butterworth.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, it's a real person.

[Craig Worldbeck]

That's his wife. Mrs. Butterworth.

[Bill Simmons]

Butterworth.

[Danny Heifetz]

This guy's wife is Mrs. Butterwort. Get the out of here.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Oh, God.

[Bill Simmons]

He said that Isaiah. Isaiah likely didn't get a third step down in the end zone to complete the catch before it was ripped out, keeping it from being a completed catch and a touchdown. Here's what I have to ask. I'm team Ravens, even though I'm a Steelers fan here.

If two catch, if two feet is all you need for it to be a legal catch, wouldn't it. Wouldn't you also only require 2ft for it to be a completed catch? Insane. Why do you need a three feet or two? Yeah, if it's two required to Catch the ball. Why do you need a third to complete the catch?

[Danny Heifetz]

The problem, I think, is that they ha. They apply the rules during the rest of the field. In the end zone, the problem is like the end zone, time stops. You know what I mean? It's like during football, it's like the equivalent of two feet and then you need to hold it through the ground. And it's like surviving the ground, all that. Yes, but like, the problem is in the end zone, does the play continue or not? It's like you. The moment the ball crosses the goal line, if you have possession, if it plays over, when does the catch end? But I will say, when you watch the play in full speed, it looks pretty quick.

[Bill Simmons]

It looks like he drops it.

[Danny Heifetz]

Maybe he dropped it.

[Craig Worldbeck]

I think ultimately, I think the conclusion I came to was the call was correct. But it was. But I've gotten to the point where I'm like, I don't know. I don't know what a catch.

[Bill Simmons]

The flaw is. The sport itself, I think, is the issue.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Also, I don't give. I think the fact that it happened to Isaiah likely, who literally fumbled the ball last year. Can we just ban all Ravens tight ends? I want to talk about another play that happened.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, wait, no, hold on.

[Danny Heifetz]

Play. No, but the next play. The next play, fine. But the. I think the other reason, though, that we're stuck on this and this is going to be a big thing, we can't talk about this enough. Maybe the reason we have no faith in this is because they overruled the touchdown and the referee didn't even have his fucking microphone on. So he just stared at the camera with the mic off. And then we don't hear what he's saying. So John Harbaugh loses his mind. And then the announcers are like, what did he say? Which happens sometimes, but he didn't realize the mic was off and they just never addressed it. And then they took the touchdown off the board.

[Craig Worldbeck]

I think the other thing that you.

[Danny Heifetz]

Could argue we were all confused.

[Craig Worldbeck]

The other thing that you could argue and that could make you mad is if they called it a touchdown on the field and then reversed it. You could make the argument that it wasn't clear and obvious that it wasn't a catch. Is that what happened? They. They called it a touchdown and then.

[Danny Heifetz]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Danny Heifetz]

Which is my whole thing. Why is. You gotta watch three times? It's not clear up.

[Bill Simmons]

What's funny was so many.

[Craig Worldbeck]

It feels like so many plays where. Like the. When the NFL rulemakers sit down and make the rules, they're like, okay, what could happen that could make people question what our rules are? And then it happens every fucking week.

[Danny Heifetz]

The.

[Craig Worldbeck]

There's just like, the most specific things happened. This guy got it knocked out at foot at step two and seven eights or whatever. Yeah, it was like crazy.

[Bill Simmons]

It was Romo Nance. I believe so cbs. I forget who. The. Like the Stereotor Steritor. He came in and said.

Well, Isaiah likely didn't make a football move. And my question is, if you're in the end zone, why do you. If why do what move? Are you making your score, you scored the end. The play is over.

[Danny Heifetz]

Why are you celebrating? He should have started doing the Dougie or something.

[Bill Simmons]

Football.

[Craig Worldbeck]

It should have been a touchdown. He. He held when he. When you hold the ball out like that. That's a football move.

[Danny Heifetz]

I totally agree. Take it. That is, absolutely. And I think it's because it's not a traditional football move because it's not in the field of play. But I agree.

[Craig Worldbeck]

He's holding the ball away from the defender.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, that's where I caught it, though. He kind of caught it and it. And it stayed there.

[Danny Heifetz]

He kept it out.

[Craig Worldbeck]

This is I saying, the most specific thing that no one could ever adjudicate happens every week in the NFL.

[Bill Simmons]

Because h. You're right. Like, when I point out, like, well, if two kept feet is all you need, then what. What the fuck? Because there is something to be said about, like, if you catch the ball in like a millisecond, if you're. If your two feet are standing on the ground in the end zone, you catch the ball with your two hands in a millisecond after you catch it, somebody hits the ball to your hands. That's not a catch. So the question is, like, how long does it need to be in your hands standing still, where if somebody were to smack it out of your hands, it would be considered a catch. I don't know the answer to that.

[Danny Heifetz]

The truth is, I don't feel.

[Bill Simmons]

Not in the playbook.

[Craig Worldbeck]

It's not in the rulebook.

[Danny Heifetz]

The truth is, if you watch the play at full speed and we didn't have slow mo. I don't have a problem with the Isaiah likely thing not being a touchdown. However, the combination of. It's about the benefit of the doubt. The referees couldn't turn their mic on to explain it, and then they took it off.

[Bill Simmons]

You hate the mic. You're mad about the mic.

[Danny Heifetz]

Combined with the phantom call that took. That took away the field goal and Then gave the Steelers a first town for that did not exist. And then the Aaron Rodgers pass that was batted back to him that they just decided that was a catch.

[Bill Simmons]

That was the right call. That was the right call.

[Danny Heifetz]

I don't.

[Bill Simmons]

Roger's knee was down and he had control the ball.

[Danny Heifetz]

But that's the thing control the ball. The defender has two hands on the.

[Bill Simmons]

Football and that Rogers had two hands on that. Well the other defender had like one while Rogers's knee was down. And then later on the second hand of the defender came on that to me was more clear.

[Danny Heifetz]

What's the difference between what you just described and the Isaiah likely play? What the fuck is the difference? You're telling me that the millisecond Rogers has the ball and the defender has the ball. His the defender has an equal right to the ball. Well no I see that plays over and instantly.

[Bill Simmons]

I think there's more precedent to that that usually when the offensive player and the defensive player kind of both catch the ball at the same time, usually the tie goes to the offensive player. And it was Rogers had two hands on it.

[Craig Worldbeck]

I think that might be but the.

[Bill Simmons]

Other defender had one.

[Danny Heifetz]

I don't know man.

[Bill Simmons]

They had they reversed it because the original call in the field was that the the Ravens player came away with the ball out out of the scrum. But when you saw it when Rogers's knee was down, he had two hands on the ball. He caught it. That was the right call.

[Danny Heifetz]

Mate, I'm torn.

[Craig Worldbeck]

I look he didn't complete the act of falling to the ground.

[Danny Heifetz]

I'm usually here the the dirty I'm.

[Bill Simmons]

Usually the ref crumbled to the ground.

[Danny Heifetz]

He crumble. He did crumble.

[Bill Simmons]

Usually the is he supposed to do. He's like getting tackled by three people he's trying to catch. He's a 42 year old man who b own pass and tries to catch it. Give him credit.

Move he did please.

[Craig Worldbeck]

They're like let's give it to him.

[Bill Simmons]

No hype is being like hey crumpled to the ground like a I'm like.

[Danny Heifetz]

He just didn't get the ball. I'm like oh my God, it's so inferior.

[Bill Simmons]

That one was the right call.

[Danny Heifetz]

I don't I I overall I'm usually the riff apologist because the reality is there's 10000 plays and anytime you point to one play and you want to try to if you get 99.9 of the catch rules right in a given year that's like two a week that you're wrong and if you want to try to rewrite the rules to include the two a week, the odds are you're going to get the other. You're going to add plays that are being fucked up. Not going to subtract the two a week, you're going to have to live with it. Having said that, there was a lot of fucked up calls this week. That's all.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Get away from talking about the refs and we'll talk about how annoying the Ravens tight ends are. Like last week, obviously Isaiah likely had a touchdown and then he got, he fumbled into the end zone and whatever. And then this week he should have had that touchdown, got a batted away. You know what happened Two plays later after that play.

Lamar Jackson on fourth down from the eight yard line, he kind of, it was kind of a broken, it was like a half a broken play because he was kind of like moving around in the pocket, whatever. And then Mark Andrews, seeing that he's in trouble, switches directions and runs back up the end line or whatever or the goal line, I should say. And if you look at. And Brian Baldinger like broke this down on his Twitter account, but I was like, I noticed it at the moment because like the way that DeAndre Hopkins and Zay Flowers and Mark Andrews are all looking at each other after the play, I was like something went wrong there. And if you watch the play from the end zone view, DeAndre Hopkins is wide fucking open in the back of the end zone. This would have been the go ahead touchdown with like two minutes left. 2, 2, 28. Mark Andrews jumps for it and bats the pot down. Mark Andrews, good God. This is right after they just flying.

[Bill Simmons]

In like the bird in front of Randy Johnson's fastball getting in the way. And then DeAndre Hopkins like waving his.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Hands in the back of the back of the end zone. And I swear to God for like a full minute just like holds his hands out like, like just, just stare.

[Danny Heifetz]

Like you just took the ball away from me.

[Bill Simmons]

Like shooter. Watching Happy's putt go in at the end of the movie, like crumbling to his knees.

[Danny Heifetz]

My jacket mahomes at the end of football, just like hands on his face.

[Bill Simmons]

With all that said, the Ravens did not play a good game. I thought their game plan was weird. They, they didn't like run the ball much in the first half and every time they gave Derrick Henry the ball, he had like five, six yards easy. They didn't really commit to that till like the end of the third quarter they started running him and Lamar Moore. Every time Lamar Ran. He got like eight yards. I, I didn't. They did not call a great game. So I, I do think the right team won despite all of that shit. Like, I thought the Steelers played better in this game.

[Danny Heifetz]

That I agree with. And even though the Steelers kept bleeding guys, how many players did the Steelers lose during this game? It felt like five people.

[Bill Simmons]

Echoes went down.

[Danny Heifetz]

Yeah, I agree with that. The Ravens, despite all the calls that fucked them, Ravens fans know like the Ravens didn't play well. And honestly, Ravens aren't a playoff team. Like the Ravens are not a playoff team. They have not. They've looked. The Ravens have looked good three times this season and one was against Miami on a Thursday Night football game.

[Bill Simmons]

We are set up, by the way, for just a hilarious Steelers Bills wild card game where the Steelers are going to be the worst division winner. So they're going to be the four seed and the Bills are going to be the best wild card team at the 5. And the Bills are going to beat the Steelers by fucking 30 in Pittsburgh.

[Craig Worldbeck]

That's actually happening. No, it's worst case scenario. This is the one quarterback that Josh Allen has to go again in the playoffs.

[Danny Heifetz]

Tomlin's gonna win his first playoff game in 10 years.

[Bill Simmons]

That is actually going to happen. That will be what keeps Tomlin coming back. Like he'll, he'll beat Josh Allen in the wild card round and they'll have to bring Tomlin back and resign him. That's going to happen.

[Danny Heifetz]

Other we're so back. I think all the bad quarterbacks in the NFL are back. J.J. mcCarthy, Cam Ward, Shadir Sanders, Tyler Schuck, all the bad quarterbacks, the most.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Disparaged quarterbacks in the NFL all played well today.

[Bill Simmons]

Anyone we made fun of, I didn't appreciate you. Heifet's comparing that burrow shuffle pass interception to J.J. mcCarthy because nine was dialed in today.

[Danny Heifetz]

Nine was dialed. Nine was pretty dialed, man.

[Bill Simmons]

Nine made some good throws. I started him in the ringer league and he put up 20 points for me.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Look at you. Look at you.

[Danny Heifetz]

The Vikings won 31 to nothing a week after they lost 26 to nothing, which I don't think it happened since.

[Craig Worldbeck]

I think that hasn't happened. Yeah.

[Danny Heifetz]

The mid-90s, I think was the last time a team that got shut out shut another team out. McCarthy looked good in the opening script, but beyond that, like he just looked. They basically. Kevin o', Connell, the Vikings coach, was basically like all that mechanical stuff. I told you, don't worry about it. Like, just forget. Just make decisions and he did. He was way more decisive. The throws weren't great, but, like, he was decisive and he just. If he didn't see anything, he just ran. And McCarthy did great. He had. I mean, he had a 160 yards. He had three passing touchdowns. He. He did, he did run for some firsts. And also Washington had a genuine nightmare game, but then 31 to nothing.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Wait, so. So the Vikings scored 31 points and J.J. mcCarthy played well. Did that meant that Justin Jefferson had a huge game, Right?

[Danny Heifetz]

I think so. Let's check. Let's check. What do you. I mean, Justin Jefferson, three touchdowns. I bet at least two of them went to him.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Right?

[Bill Simmons]

So for those of you who don't know, who didn't listen to the preview show, Heifetz and I made a bet that who's going to have more yards, Alec Pierce on the Colts or Justin Jefferson on the Vikings? And the loser dies.

And so Justin Jefferson had 11 yards, and I think Alec Pierce had 80.

[Danny Heifetz]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

And if you.

[Danny Heifetz]

I had Alec Pierce.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Craig Worldbeck]

So Craig dies.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, I was going to ask double or nothing next week.

Do you agree to that? You kill me twice.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Now we're talking.

[Bill Simmons]

Are you in? How's that?

[Craig Worldbeck]

Die another day.

[Danny Heifetz]

Riley Leonard versus Seattle. You know what's funny? I kind of think you will. I'm not going to take it, but I kind of think I'll.

[Bill Simmons]

You're going to kill me or can you. I'll let you. You can kill me. Resurrect me. Kill me again next week. That's how you want to do that?

[Danny Heifetz]

We just did that with. McCarthy's going to get. He already got resurrected. He's going to get killed again next week.

[Bill Simmons]

All right, we'll do double or nothing next week. Dude, if you told me if going in high Fitz, if somebody was like, Daniel Jones is going to tear his Achilles and J.J. mcCarthy is going to throw three touchdowns and they're going to win 31 0. I feel like you would actually bet your life that Justin Jefferson would have more.

[Danny Heifetz]

I actually, in retrospect, think I could have gotten you to bet, like, thousands of dollars.

[Bill Simmons]

And I'm like, which. That amount is more valuable than my life. Let's be honest. I know.

[Danny Heifetz]

$2,000. You know what's funny? What would you have done if I'd been like, Alec Pierce, and I'll like, give you 60 yards. I'll spot you 60 yards at Alec.

[Bill Simmons]

Pierce and you're like, achilles, Achilles. And I can guarantee you three touchdowns for J.J. mcCarthy.

[Danny Heifetz]

Oh, my good. 31. And nothing. I. Yeah, the Justin Jefferson of the game was very. I love an honest player. He was like, you know, not. They're not going to get me the ball. I'd rather win than lose.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Yeah.

[Danny Heifetz]

He's like, so I'm happy we won.

[Craig Worldbeck]

I think we all know. We all know receivers just desperately want the football.

[Bill Simmons]

I think it's perfectly fine to not be super happy. Even if you win. If you have like zero catches, I think that's fine.

[Danny Heifetz]

But the. It's. Well, especially when you're gonna get two players.

[Bill Simmons]

People go too hard on that. Like, it's okay to like want to perform if you're a good player.

[Danny Heifetz]

Well, yeah, they should get him the ball. But I will say that the 31 to nothing was because the commanders had one of the. The Colts obviously are the main team that like was erased today. But dk, I feel like Washington also was on a quieter level. Washington was just this.

[Craig Worldbeck]

I mean, look, we talked about Washington in the off season going from what they did last year. They won 12 games. They blew the absolute doors off the Lions in the playoffs. They were like one of the most exciting teams ascending teams in the NFL. Jaden Daniels, the sexiest player in fantasy football and this season has got. And we were talking about like, oh, wait till they have a first place schedule, how different it's going to be or whatever. And it's not even been the schedule. It's like they're just a fucking terrible team. Like they're bad. They won 12 games last year. They're three and 10 this year. And I understand that.

[Bill Simmons]

And they only had a second place scheduled this year. Those cowards.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Oh, right, sorry. You're right. The. It's like obviously injuries have been a massive part of that. I totally understand that that happens.

[Danny Heifetz]

How could they have seen that coming for the oldest team in the NFL?

[Craig Worldbeck]

Yeah, but it's like if, if you look at. I was just like looking back at some of the stuff they did in the off season and people like graded their off season pretty well. They traded for Debo Samuel and Laramie Tunsil. They drafted Josh Connerly, Trey Amos in the draft. They signed Javon Kinlaw to a big deal.

[Bill Simmons]

Not spring Chickens. Debo Samuel and Laramie Tunsil. All those guys.

[Craig Worldbeck]

No, no. And obviously the. A good team in the Texans was trying to get rid of Laramie Tunsil.

[Danny Heifetz]

That.

[Craig Worldbeck]

That's kind of a red flag. You know, they brought back Bobby Wagner, Zach Hertz. But. But I think like ultimately and, and I think you could say a lot, most of those A lot of those didn't really work out those moves. But ultimately it's like just this team is not, like it's not a good team. Jen Daniels has been hurt. McLaren's been hurt. Connerly hasn't been very good. Amos got injured.

[Danny Heifetz]

His career might have ended.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Zachary tore his ACL today. He's probably done for his career. Debo's not really been a difference maker. Bobby Wagner over the hill.

[Danny Heifetz]

I mean, defense is a whole.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Daniels came back. He was 9 for 20 before getting hurt.

[Danny Heifetz]

They resurrected J.J. mcCarthy's career today on defense. And so bad. The Washington defense, I mean, that look.

[Bill Simmons]

It'S like a combination of like natural regression, injury regression. Jaden Daniels coming down to back down to earth. Like the fourth down regret. It's just. And then like injury, bad luck.

[Danny Heifetz]

Yeah, it's just. They're cooked.

[Bill Simmons]

Where does the spring. Does the phrase spring chicken come from? You wanted to breed chickens to be born in the spring for some reason.

[Danny Heifetz]

I think that's just the natural course of. Of all life.

[Craig Worldbeck]

You don't give birth in the winter. Yeah, because then you die.

[Bill Simmons]

But why. Why would that be assigned to chicken? Specifically for the phrase then spring chickens.

[Danny Heifetz]

Are young because they were just born.

[Bill Simmons]

I know, but why did they pick chicken? If every animal is supposed to be born in the spring, why are they picking chicken for the phrase? Like there has to be something specific about why chickens need to be born in the spring. Right. Or they just pick like why.

[Danny Heifetz]

I think that we just have a lot of chickens around.

[Craig Worldbeck]

According to the AI overview, it originates from the literal market value of young tender chicken. I don't like saying young tender chickens, but.

Young tender. God, why did they put tender in there?

[Bill Simmons]

AI, I have the phrase. The phrase spring chicken dates back to 18th, 19th centuries when farmers believe that chickens born in the spring grew more tender.

So I'm kind of right. So there is a reason.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Yeah, yeah.

[Danny Heifetz]

All right, point, point. I'll give you. All right, there you go. You know what? Maybe I will.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Two points for Craig.

[Danny Heifetz]

Maybe Craig won't die. Maybe that's the last good point I'll ever.

[Craig Worldbeck]

You'll spare me because it's the last spring chicken question.

[Danny Heifetz]

Craig, that might be the last time you ever proved me right on the show. Until you die. That's crazy.

[Bill Simmons]

Until I die next week.

[Danny Heifetz]

Yeah.

The other people who are so back. Dude, the. The Titans, the Shador Sanders, Cam Ward rivalry was resurrected today. I think if you saw that great video of the. Of the pre draft when Cam Ward and SH Sanders were chirping each other and we thought that they might both.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Be Cam Ward just chirping.

[Danny Heifetz]

It was great. Well, Shitter was like, I got Gatorade money. And Shitter was like, good luck not throwing bubble screens in the NFL. If you just went into a coma that day and then you woke up and you just watched this game, you'd be like, wow, these guys, you. They must be great.

[Bill Simmons]

You never in the league.

[Danny Heifetz]

Yeah, you never would have thought. Tennessee Titans worst record of the NFL entering today. Shoulder status, fifth round pick. You would been like, wow, these guys must have gone 1, 2 in the draft.

[Bill Simmons]

Shador had over 30 fantasy points. Chris Ryan. It's going to be the reason why Chris Ryan makes the ringer playoff because he forever sander.

[Danny Heifetz]

Chris Ryan's gonna make the ringer fantasy playoffs and so is Mal.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Mal drop.

[Danny Heifetz]

I think she did and then she cut him. But.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, is that right? So is Bill not gonna make it?

[Danny Heifetz]

Oh, Bill's not gonna make it. Bill's cooked. No, Bill. Bill. The last place bracket which we will get into is gonna be you, Bill, Sean and Sean. Yeah. That's great.

[Bill Simmons]

I hope it's. I hope it's Bill vers Sean in the. In the toilet bowl championship.

[Danny Heifetz]

The punishments are so disproportionate. It's like you won't have matcha for a week and then Sean has to wear a headband on a pod and can't. Can't explain it. Bill is going to have a jersey of the winners choosing and then Van, the winner gets the post from Van's Twitter for like four times.

[Bill Simmons]

Going to be a delicate situation because one of you two have, I would say, has the best odds to win the league. So you. One of you two is going to get to decide what Bill wears.

[Danny Heifetz]

We're taking consultation from South. Don't you worry. I'm.

[Craig Worldbeck]

I'm going to my powers to South.

[Bill Simmons]

That's right.

[Danny Heifetz]

Probably S. Yeah, we're just gonna. Yeah. Proxy vote. S get.

[Craig Worldbeck]

What is it?

[Danny Heifetz]

When.

[Craig Worldbeck]

What is it?

[Bill Simmons]

The.

[Craig Worldbeck]

The term. When the king, like steps down.

[Danny Heifetz]

Abdicate.

[Bill Simmons]

Abdicate.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Abd.

[Danny Heifetz]

Abdicate the throne. S gets the pick. I think that's. We should just change it from winner to S gets to the side. Yes. That's so funny. But yeah. Shador Sanders, 33 fantasy points today, number two quarterback. So I mean the. The Titans beat the Browns 3129. We're going to get into this. But Shador, 360 yards and three touchdowns passing, ran for 20.

[Craig Worldbeck]

That's not 60.

[Danny Heifetz]

Let me tell you something. About not nothing. CBS had this stat. Rookie quarterbacks in NFL history with 350 passing yards, three touchdowns and a rushing touchdown in game in the super era. It's just Joe Burrow and Shadora Sanders.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Wow.

[Danny Heifetz]

The only rookie quarterbacks to do that. Love that.

[Bill Simmons]

Outside of let's say Brock Purdy who was literally the last pick in the draft and I think we can all agree is a pretty good quarterback. If Shador turns out to be good. Is there a better example of nobody knows what the fuck they're talking about?

[Danny Heifetz]

I can think of one outside of Purdy. Brady, but yeah, I know what you're saying.

[Bill Simmons]

Brady.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Yeah, I agree with that. Craig. I think that's absolutely like we've, I think for the most part the most of the media is like given up on the fact that he's a good player. But like prior to the draft most people had him like as like a first round slash second round.

[Danny Heifetz]

He was a second.

[Craig Worldbeck]

I, I was like it's weird how the, it's weird how.

[Bill Simmons]

But then once he dropped everyone's like physically he's completely right inept compared to.

[Craig Worldbeck]

All these other projects.

[Danny Heifetz]

Right, right, right. I think the Shador thing, it's, he's not as good as, I mean I thought Shador should be like a late first, early second round pick. Part of me wanted Shador over Jackson Dart. Like I'll, I'll admit that like part of me was like oh, I think teams viewed him as a high end backup quarterback or like a Tyler Shuck. Completely different but like a Tyler Shuckish. But then he didn't do any of the combine shit. He didn't work out for them, he didn't throw, he didn't participate in the very basic things. And I think Dion screwed up his draft stock because Dion, you only skip that if you're really good and you're going to go as a top five top ten pick and you want to pick and choose and you'll work out for that team. Privately, Shador just wouldn't do it. Shador goes into the Ravens interview and says I don't want to play for you. I don't want to back up Lamar. The Ravens would have taken him earlier. So you're like, so I think teams looked at it and they're like this is, this guy is going to be so much media coverage, so much attention. He's a backup quarterback that won't play behind a two time mvp. Like he's too good to sit behind an MVP and wait like we, who wants a Backup quarterback that won't even like work out for us or play. So he fell to the fifth round and the Browns didn't even want him. The owner, Jimmy Haslam wanted him. So I, that's. I wondered if there's a little truth to the whole. It's Kevin Stefanski putting him up for success. I thought that was overblown. I thought they didn't want Shador to play because, yeah, they had four other quarterbacks. However, today I did think Stefanski made a mistake. DK. So the Shador has a great comeback. There's five and a half minutes left. The Browns are down 14. Sure has a great run to cut the lead to two touchdowns. And then he has a great throw to Harold Fan and cuts it down to two points. And then after 360 yards, three touchdowns, another touchdown run. How did you feel, DK, about the Browns going wildcat and not even have shoot around the field for the two point conversion?

[Craig Worldbeck]

No, it's stupid. It's absolutely stupid. I mean, it's like, yeah, the hot get. Get the ball in the guys that has led you to this point. His hands, you know what I mean? Put the ball in his hands for.

[Danny Heifetz]

This, for this moment.

[Bill Simmons]

The quarterback should always be the first person to touch the ball on every important play.

[Danny Heifetz]

It makes sense what happened on that.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Play, by the way. Just forget to toss it or what?

[Danny Heifetz]

Yeah. I think Judkins is a rookie who.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Didn'T practice three months ago to do the thing that was part of the play.

[Danny Heifetz]

Yeah, but I did. But you know why? It's because you go on autopilot. It's the difference between panicking and choking is panic as you kind of like, like, like you don't think at all. And choking as you're thinking like, I think Judkins has run to his right. How many times in his life do you think Quinchon Judkins has just like had a ball and had to run to the outside? Probably like 10,000. He's never had to fucking chuck it to a receiver running the other way. He wasn't thinking. It was a big moment in the game. And autopilot sets in. He's like, oh, I had to throw it. And he just didn't.

[Bill Simmons]

Funny thing is, is if he, I think if he makes the pitch, there's a chance that guy scores.

[Danny Heifetz]

I know. Yes, it was a good play. And that's, and that's the irony is if he just makes the pitch, no one's. Everyone's like, wow, Stefanski, Jesus.

[Craig Worldbeck]

So you said it it was a good play.

[Bill Simmons]

Play.

[Danny Heifetz]

Oh yeah, you're right. Maybe I'm wrong.

[Craig Worldbeck]

I think ultimately he's. Yeah, ultimately he should have put the ball in Shitter's hands after what he was doing in that game. Like that's like a no brainer.

[Bill Simmons]

Like the quarterback should probably touch the.

[Danny Heifetz]

Ball shoulders first start when they went down on that first drive that he had like weeks ago and then Judkins then got Wildcat in the goal line. That made sense. I'm like it's his first start. Shutters barely had reps with the team. That makes sense when it's three. When he's having 360 yards. You're thinking too much. Having said that, yeah, the play probably would have worked which is also kind of funny to think about. Also Cam Ward played well. I thought Cambord this was his best game even. Even though, I mean they barely won. But he completed like half his past attempts. He only had 117 yards and two touchdowns. I don't give a. He had some awesome throws the opening drive. The. He was 4 for 4 in the opening drive. The touchdown Amnor in the first drive is great. The touchdown. He had another throw on third down versus pressure. That should have been caught. That was not. But it was awesome. The touchdown to come here DK later was great. And the best play I saw all day was Cam Ward fucking suplexing Grant Del Pitt to save, trying to sack him and he just actually like just.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Don'T shrugged him all. Yeah.

[Danny Heifetz]

And then he just stood on top of him and threw the ball out of bounds.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Danny Heifetz]

Which was sick. But Dick, what did you. Did you feel like Cam Ward actually was like oh yeah. That he looks like a number one player you can like build around as a franchise quarterback today?

[Craig Worldbeck]

Yeah. And I thought I felt that way. For the last few weeks we haven't really talked about the Titans all that much just because they're so bad and everything. And, and you know the surrounding sporting cast around him is like very young and inexperienced and whatever and there's just a lot of variables that he would have a hard time putting up like really good numbers and winning games. But I, I felt that like if you just watch him play, he's flashing the types of things that you want to see from a rookie quarterback. Certainly not been perfect. But, but you know I've overall I've been very positive about him going forward.

[Bill Simmons]

He's also got the worst receivers in the league who drop a million passes and it's a little.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Top two receivers are Rookies.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a little bit like Pickens on the Steelers where you're like, God, he makes so many great plays that no one's ever going to see because they're slightly out of bounds. Like Cam Ward has made so many great throws that we'll just. You'll never hear from again because they were dropped or because they were slightly out of bounds or for whatever reason. But he, he like his arm talent. You could see it if you actually watch the games.

[Danny Heifetz]

He's.

[Bill Simmons]

He looks all right at times.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Times.

[Bill Simmons]

He makes a lot of. I mean he still takes terrible sacks and does dumb. But his arm, you can see it.

[Craig Worldbeck]

And they lost themselves the top overall pick.

[Danny Heifetz]

I know for now that always I, I get, I hate when people like, oh, the Giants have the first pick. I'm like, there's, it's fun. Four. There's four weeks left.

[Bill Simmons]

It's fun. That's the only reason why they're gonna blow it.

[Danny Heifetz]

It's. It's one game. They could win two games to get like the ninth pick.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean. Yeah. The last game of the season. Who do the Giants play? Oh, no, the Giants play the Raiders on week 17. That's going to be huge.

[Danny Heifetz]

They're going to win that game.

[Bill Simmons]

That's going to be huge.

[Danny Heifetz]

That's it. They're going to win. The Raiders. Oh, sh. Do we get to them? No, I want to. While we're talking about so back, I want to just mention Tyler Shuck for the Saints. The Saints beat the Bucks 24. 20.

[Bill Simmons]

God.

[Danny Heifetz]

Tyler Shuck in the pouring rain, completed 13 to 20 passes, 144 yards, had two huge third down conversions, which was impressive and I've made a lot of fun of him, but. Oh my God. The. I, I was not familiar with your game. So much faster than I thought. Tyler Shuck had two touchdowns.

[Bill Simmons]

He can scoot a little bit.

[Danny Heifetz]

He had a 34 yard touchdown run and then a 13 yard order. That was really a 20. It was a 13 yard sack that he just turned into a 13 year touchdown run to win the game. And not quite a walk off. But Tyler Shuck, I mean he was also top three fantasy quarterback today.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, man. That last draw was so. Every play was completely improbable. I could not believe he made his way down the field and got into the end zone.

[Craig Worldbeck]

I was like rolling like, like a 17 straight time.

[Bill Simmons]

That was like my run in New Orleans playing crap.

[Danny Heifetz]

Exactly. How is this still going? The, the last play, the touchdown run, it actually was four guys on the Bucks defensive line literally were literally tripping over themselves because they all couldn't believe he hadn't been sacked yet. And they all just knocked each other over. Cause they couldn't believe how easy it was going to be him.

[Craig Worldbeck]

I'm, I'm very curious what the Bucks will, sorry. What the Saints will do this off season with their quarterback situation. Because I feel like at this point Chuck is like playing himself into a starting job next year unless they have, I don't know, some other well option. But yeah, he's, he's been, he's been much more impressive than I thought he would be.

[Danny Heifetz]

I think Chuck Shedeur and McCarthy, obviously, Cam Ward are all going to be the starters entering next season and they'll probably have to get competition. But I do, I mean certainly the rest of the season, Shur is way better than Dylan Gabriel. Tyler Shuck's way better than Spencer Rattler. Like I think they've all proven enough to, they're probably going to get a lot of opportunities next year.

[Bill Simmons]

Dk, I'm going to put you on the spot right now. You are a GM of a new team. Okay. You can start your, your franchise with Tyler Shuck, J.J. mcCarthy or Shador.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Man, I feel like you asked me this question a lot and I feel like I change every single time just.

[Bill Simmons]

Because it's, I haven't asked you this specific one.

[Craig Worldbeck]

No, I know but like I did like the shitter JJ thing a couple weeks ago I think like last week.

[Bill Simmons]

And you said Shador. Yeah, yeah.

[Craig Worldbeck]

After today I'm like back on McCarthy though. I think he was.

[Bill Simmons]

You think you take McCarthy over the other two?

[Craig Worldbeck]

I think so, yeah.

[Danny Heifetz]

I, I, I, I think McCarthy because Tyler Shuck reminds me of Shadur Sanders or sorry, no, sh of Michael Penck where I don't know if he'll get hurt. The moment he does, I'll feel pretty stupid for taking a 26 year old who had like four season ending injuries in college with Tyler Shuck, where even though I think he's probably playing the best of those guys right now, but.

[Craig Worldbeck]

I kind of just, but I realize I'm flip flopping every week.

[Bill Simmons]

He'll be a good backup, Tyler Shuck, he'll have a good career.

[Danny Heifetz]

Shuck is playing well or something like.

[Bill Simmons]

That with who can run.

[Danny Heifetz]

Yeah, I think, I think Tyler Schuck, it was impressed also. I mean he outplayed Baker, which, I mean speaking of which, we're going to have to have a Baker conversation. In fact, we should. It's time for America's favorite segment. Fart or shart?

Fart or shart? Suck ass.

[Bill Simmons]

Got absolutely boat racing.

[Danny Heifetz]

Oh, that was so bad.

[Bill Simmons]

Scott Hansen is holding his pe.

[Craig Worldbeck]

It's like a cornucopia. Puked on.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a new one.

[Danny Heifetz]

Is this a fart or a shark?

[Craig Worldbeck]

It's a shark.

[Danny Heifetz]

It is a shark. I think this is a shark. I think this is.

[Bill Simmons]

This is a lot one.

[Danny Heifetz]

I think this is like a medical.

[Bill Simmons]

How long is this going? Heaven's in red.

That's like 30 seconds.

[Danny Heifetz]

That was from Ben.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, I love it. I want a new one. Every single episode.

[Craig Worldbeck]

I really intense and good.

[Danny Heifetz]

That was crazy.

[Craig Worldbeck]

What was the was like that h. That was like.

[Bill Simmons]

I think he was doing a hyena laugh.

[Danny Heifetz]

I think that was my hyena laugh. Yeah.

[Craig Worldbeck]

What that was all right.

[Bill Simmons]

DK Yo, Daniel.

[Danny Heifetz]

What?

[Bill Simmons]

Baker Mayfield and Ameca Ebuka.

Baker Mayfield, weeks one through five, they were four and one. He was the QB5. We were flying high. Baker was an MVP front runner.

[Danny Heifetz]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

That was the first five weeks of the season. The most the last five weeks. Baker Mayfield, QB20. The Bucks are one and four. Ameca Abuka, weeks one through five was the wide receiver three was going to be the rookie of the year. Was the star of the fantasy season. All of our predictions were correct. A wide receiver three through five weeks. The last five weeks he's the wide receiver 40. He dropped the game tying touchdown today in the fourth quarter and he is fourth in this past. Over the past five weeks, he is fourth in target share and yet is the wide receiver 40. So let me ask you. Baker Mayfield and Emeka Abuka. Farter. Shark.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Shark. I still think a Mecca Abuka is going to be a really good player in the NFL. I'm starting to worry about Baker Mayfield.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, like legitimately crisis of faith. Yeah.

[Craig Worldbeck]

So you. You did weeks one through five and then 10 through 14. I kind of broke it down since week seven. So that's the last seven games for Baker Mayfield.

[Bill Simmons]

The.

[Craig Worldbeck]

The Bucks have lost five out of those seven games. And in that stretch. So from fantasy point of view, Baker's a QB27. Like he's been worthless. He's averaged 12 points per game in that stretch in seven games. But in that stretch, he has eight touchdowns and five picks, seven turnovers. He is 29th in completion rate. He is dead last in the NFL in yards per attempt. 5.3 yards per attempt in that stretch, dead last in EPA per drop. Back in that stretch, his pass rating is 75. Only JJ McCarthy is worse than that pass rating, his success rate. Only Shedeur is worse in that stretch.

[Danny Heifetz]

Wait, so you're saying the E Keeper drop back Bakers is worse than JJ McCarthy the last seven weeks?

[Craig Worldbeck]

Weeks, yeah. Well, JJ hasn't played as many games, but. Yes, but it is per drawback so. And his off target rate is third worst. Like he's been bad basically by any stat. So like not bad but like one of like maybe the worst quarterback in the NFL over almost two months now.

[Bill Simmons]

Let me follow up here.

[Craig Worldbeck]

So he was the MVP candidate for a while.

[Bill Simmons]

He was. Like I said, It's QB4, QB5. The first five weeks of the season. I mean everybody was talking about them to be like the darling for the Super Bowl.

So my question, when you say, when you say shart, do you mean for the rest of this year? He's somebody that. Let's say you got into the playoffs, into Week 15 and Baker's one of your two quarterbacks. Under no circumstances you start Baker Mayfield from here on out. Or are you saying the shard is actually goes deeper? It actually has gone through the underwear. It is now coming out of the pants a little bit. And you're starting to worry about Baker Mayfield's career as a quarterback?

[Craig Worldbeck]

More the latter.

[Bill Simmons]

Interesting. You know, I mean the shoulder injury.

[Craig Worldbeck]

I would say it's a crisis of faith more than like I, I think he's done.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Craig Worldbeck]

You know what I mean? Like I'm just like. Because we're watching like it. The reclamation projects for a long time in this, in the season and last year, we're like, man, these are such great stories. Daniel Jones, Baker Mayfield, Geno Smith, Sam Darnold. And then like halfway through the year we're like, oh, actually they're kind of.

[Bill Simmons]

Usually, you know, early on, but like.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Sam Darnold had a good game today and that's great. But like gen, like big picture. I'm like, oh, I actually kind of understand now why these guys were journeyman quarterbacks. I, I would say with Baker it's more of a crisis of faith than I actually think he's going to be bad forever, but he's been really bad for the last like two months. And that is, that is obviously concerning. His offensive line has been decimated at points, his receivers have been injured and off the field, his running backs, like there's a million reasons why these things have happened. But I just think the contrast of like him being in the MVP discussion for the first like month or two of the season and what he's done over the Last seven weeks is, it's pretty wild.

[Bill Simmons]

You, you feel like what we're seeing now is closer to real Baker compared to what we were seeing the first five weeks when he was an mvp front runner perhaps. Probably. I think.

He was super, super hurt and is fighting gritting his way through it.

[Danny Heifetz]

I, I completely, I hope you're Craig. Yeah, I, I, I completely agree. I, I, the, the unsexy answer is everyone around them's hurt and then they're hurt. Baker is very injured and I know he's only been listed in the injury report a couple times. Like Baker's really hurt and they're hiding it. And Abuka also like the magical he.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Should have caught that touchdown and then.

[Danny Heifetz]

Discussion it was pouring rain. But like, yes, he should have caught the touchdown. It was the, the greatest insight Craig's ever had into football is you can't see rain on the game and you forget about it. Even though you know you're raining and it's all they're talking about. You just forget about the rain.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Sloppy game game.

[Danny Heifetz]

He should have caught the ball. Having said that, Ibuka's downturn perfectly coincides with a quad injury he had in, in the end of September, early October. Like he heard his quad, they wrapped it. He hasn't been the same since. And then Mike Evans got hurt. It's like, I don't think it's that complicated. The Bucks have been decimated. Means 1 out of 10 they're not way worse than that. So I, I just think that they're beat to and they'll be fine next year. I actually think a book will be a really good value next year.

[Craig Worldbeck]

However, that makes me feel better.

[Bill Simmons]

Your point point is a good one though, that like a lot of the reclamation guys, these guys who the first contract of their career was horrible, it is really hard to actually dig your way out of that to the point where they feel like a quarterback who could you could win the super bowl with like Darnold and Daniel Jones and I don't know if Baker, Gino, regardless of how good they came back and were, nobody ever felt like you could win the Super Bowl.

[Danny Heifetz]

Well, it's hard to win the super bowl in general. Josh Allen, Joe Burrow, Lamar Jackson, never. I mean, Joe Burrow is the only one who's even come close. So I think that it's not just the Super Bowl. To me, I think that that the issue the reclamation guys have is we, we.

Don'T stick with them through the adversity. Like Baker has been pretty great in Tampa Bay for a few years and he's had bad, bad six weeks. And we're like, does he suck again? Like, you know what I mean?

[Craig Worldbeck]

Dar, it pains me to even say this because I, like, I love watching.

[Danny Heifetz]

Baker play, but I'm encouraging you to. To not worry about Baker. I do want to interrogate you while we're in. Farter Shark that the Seahawks, who won 37 to 9 today. In the middle of the first quarter, you were like, guys, I'm out on. Darnold.

Proceeded to throw for three touchdowns.

[Craig Worldbeck]

That was a fake moment.

[Bill Simmons]

It was seven. The Seahawks were losing seven to zero. And we were panicking a little bit.

[Danny Heifetz]

It was concerning.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Well, it was more than just one, you know, like one pick. It's like this has gone on for the last, like, month and a half or whatever. Like, I've. I basically came into this week, I'm like, I just want to see him play a clean game.

[Bill Simmons]

It's almost as though. And then you almost can't even enjoy what the Seahawks are doing right now because you're so terrified that they're just going to get destroyed in the playoffs and Donald's gonna lay an egg.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Pretty much. I mean, but like, I will say, the game ended up going a lot better after that play. I was very frustrated in the moment. Sam Darnold on. I can't remember the exact context of the play. It was either a third or fourth down. He rolled out. He had a guy wide. He had his running back wide open in the flats. Like, he could have just dumped it off to him, got a first down, lived to, like, play the next play. But no, he did the Sam Darnold thing. Tried to fucking throw down the field into like, like, tight coverage. It got batted in the air and intercepted. And I was just like, he just.

[Danny Heifetz]

Can'T not turn the ball over.

[Craig Worldbeck]

He's like, James Winston. He just can't do it. But I will say he. He bounced back in the game very well. He had a really. He had a nice touchdown pass later in the game, I believe, to jsn. He played much cleaner as the game went on.

[Danny Heifetz]

And.

[Craig Worldbeck]

And to the C to, like, what? This is something that I've been talking about with, like, Seahawks people this last couple weeks is like, they need. The Seahawks desperately needed someone else to step up, not just jsn. Like, JSN had a huge game, but the Seahawks got big performance from Rashid Shahid, who returned a kick return 100 yards for a touchdown. Then he had another couple of big plays. Cooper cup scored a Touchdown. So, like, this was what I was looking. This type of game was what I was looking for. Obviously it's not against, like a great team or anything, but, like, this is the type of game I was looking for for dk.

[Bill Simmons]

Would you trade every single starter on the Seahawks for Patrick Mahomes?

[Danny Heifetz]

Seahawks would destroy the Chiefs if they played tomorrow, I'm saying.

[Bill Simmons]

But yeah, every single starter is gone.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Do you. Who?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, would you trade every single question.

[Craig Worldbeck]

S are impossible.

[Bill Simmons]

22 starters for.

[Danny Heifetz]

I'm on record. I trade 10 first round picks in a row from.

[Bill Simmons]

My point is, like, The Seahawks are 10 and 3. They have one of the best defenses in the league.

[Craig Worldbeck]

League.

[Bill Simmons]

And yet despite all that, would you get rid of every single one of them for Patrick Mahomes? Probably. Yeah.

[Danny Heifetz]

You probably should. It's probably you probably.

[Craig Worldbeck]

I mean, my gut reaction was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I love jsn. It would be really hard to trade jsn.

[Bill Simmons]

The only thing you need is all of my players to get Patrick Mahomes.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Sure.

[Danny Heifetz]

I. Yeah, no, you probably should take that.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Like, after jsn. Who are you concerned about?

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, everybody on defer.

[Craig Worldbeck]

He's a running back.

[Danny Heifetz]

The defense is good.

[Craig Worldbeck]

No, I'm saying, like, who would you be worried about trading away after jsn?

[Danny Heifetz]

The defense.

[Bill Simmons]

The defense.

[Craig Worldbeck]

I thought you said the offense. Everyone on the offense.

[Bill Simmons]

20. All 22 starters. Oh, no, no, no.

[Craig Worldbeck]

I don't think I would do that.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, you would not do that.

[Craig Worldbeck]

No, I don't think so.

[Bill Simmons]

I think you would maybe.

[Craig Worldbeck]

I thought you meant everyone on the offense. I was like, yeah, of course.

[Bill Simmons]

No, every starter on the team. You a phone call right now and it's like, hey, Patrick Mahomes on the team tomorrow.

[Craig Worldbeck]

I think these questions are so dumb, though. It's like, I don't know. I should just be a Chiefs fan.

[Danny Heifetz]

What do you.

[Bill Simmons]

This is what people talk. This is what me and my friends, my whole life with my friends is the questions.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Trade your entire team to professional. Why don't you just switch and be a Chiefs fan?

[Bill Simmons]

I. I mean this seriously. What is the point of life if not to ask questions like that?

[Danny Heifetz]

I agree.

[Bill Simmons]

That's like the only.

[Danny Heifetz]

That's a shirt from you. That's. That's a shirt.

[Bill Simmons]

You're like, my mom, dk, every time I do that, she's like, I don't neither.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Yeah, I agree with your mom.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm like, mom, would you rather lick a subway handrail or eat gum off the floor? She's like, neither. I'm like, you can't pick that. That's not. If you.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Your mom's right.

[Danny Heifetz]

I think another.

[Bill Simmons]

You die.

[Danny Heifetz]

The number of first round picks. I would. I would say no to Mahomes. 4. I think is. Is. Is. 14 seems ridiculous. I think if I offer you 13, that was good. If I offer you 12 and you're like, that's not good enough, then I'm like, all right, you know what?

[Craig Worldbeck]

Hanging Craig, if you. Would you trade.

[Bill Simmons]

Yes.

The number does not exist.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Stephen. Stephen. Stephen Curry. Steph Curry, Stephen Wardell for Patrick Mahomes. Right now.

[Bill Simmons]

I trade Steph away from the warriors to get Mahomes on the Steelers.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

No.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Okay. You want one player who's, like, past his prime.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, how dare you? You seen him this year's face? No, I wouldn't do that.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Okay?

[Bill Simmons]

I can't pluck him off of my beloved Warriors.

[Danny Heifetz]

That would ruin everything.

[Craig Worldbeck]

See, that's because that was, like, where my head kind of went when you asked me. Like, I don't have, like, a huge emotional attachment to most of the offensive players on the Seahawks, but, like, now I'm kind of starting to really love the defense.

[Danny Heifetz]

I'm like, I think Craig's relationship to Steph is closer to your son than it is your relationship to the Seahawks players.

[Craig Worldbeck]

I mean, that's fair.

[Danny Heifetz]

This episode is brought to you by Velveeta. Game day is all about the tailgate spread. First things first. Who's bringing the Velveeta drip? Just like your favorite players on the field, Velveeta fans go all, all in on what they love. Creamy shells and cheese, melty Velveeta blocks and cheesy jarred quesos. They're taking down one taste bud at a time. Velveeta is the real MVP of the tailgate. You've got to respect the Drip. Do yourself a favor and stock up on Velveeta before kickoff. Don't miss the movie event of a lifetime. Visionary director James Cameron presents the greatest chapter of the biggest saga of all time. Avatar, Fire and Ash. Now playing in theaters. A new threat will rise in the character of Varong, who leads the ruthless Ash people. And a stunning new discovery will threaten to change the world of Avatar forever. Avatar, Fire and Ash. Now playing in theaters, IMAX and 3D screens everywhere. Get tickets now. Speaking of which, intrusive thoughts. Did you have any intrusive thoughts today? DK Kyle Pitts.

[Bill Simmons]

Stop. Kind of good.

[Danny Heifetz]

Again.

[Bill Simmons]

Stop.

[Danny Heifetz]

Shut up. No, you.

[Bill Simmons]

He was good.

You did.

[Danny Heifetz]

You thought that. How good?

[Craig Worldbeck]

Kind of good.

Which Is more than I've ever thought. Two years.

[Danny Heifetz]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Would you trade the entire Seahawks roster for him?

[Craig Worldbeck]

No.

[Danny Heifetz]

How many Kyle Pitts is. Would you need to trade them for Patrick Mahomes?

[Bill Simmons]

Do you think Kyle Pitts would be the best tight end on the Seahawks?

[Craig Worldbeck]

Probably not.

[Danny Heifetz]

He'd be the third best wide receiver.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Probably not.

[Danny Heifetz]

He wouldn't even play it all the set.

[Craig Worldbeck]

AJ Barner is probably better than.

[Danny Heifetz]

Definitely. He's a receiver.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Danny Heifetz]

Craig, did you have any intrusive thoughts today?

[Bill Simmons]

No, it was a tranquil day.

[Danny Heifetz]

Yeah, I. I didn't really have a ton today. I had two on Thursday.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay. The Cowboys Lions game.

[Danny Heifetz]

We got a great email in about Cowboys Lions. But I also had an intrusive thought prepping for the week week.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay.

[Danny Heifetz]

And also you see all the standings today. I can't explain this, but I feel confident about it.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay.

[Danny Heifetz]

I think 8 and 4 is a better record than 9 and 3.

[Bill Simmons]

What do you. I don't know what you mean.

[Danny Heifetz]

It just impresses me. I don't know why. I don't know what's wrong with it.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Impresses you.

[Danny Heifetz]

8. 8 is such a good looking number, man.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh yeah.

[Danny Heifetz]

4 is so good. 9 sucks. 3 awful. But like you see 9 and 3, I'm like, okay, see 8 and 4. I'm like 8. 4 looks sexy.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, it's like all the 17 game season records are gross and I like all the 16 game.

[Danny Heifetz]

You know 9 and 8 is so much worse than 8 and 8. I, I get. I don't. I know it's a win.

[Bill Simmons]

Heinous. 9, 10 and 7.

[Craig Worldbeck]

I hate 11 and 6 is not a great.

[Danny Heifetz]

11 and 6 is bad.

[Craig Worldbeck]

This is the worst conversation we've ever had.

[Danny Heifetz]

All right, I have a much better email here from. We could. Yeah, this was a great. This is a truly phenomenal email. So the Lions Cowboys games which we didn't get to, but Jimmy Gibbons is unbelievable. Someone emailed us in the Alliance Cowboys. This is from Paxton.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Paxton P. Bone Lynch.

[Danny Heifetz]

No.

[Bill Simmons]

Could be.

[Danny Heifetz]

Could be Paxton Lynch.

[Craig Worldbeck]

I don't know. Prove it's not Paxton.

[Danny Heifetz]

Paxton wrote, a safety should be way more. A safety should be worth way more than two points.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Oh yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

What does way more mean?

[Danny Heifetz]

Well, I don't know, but Paxton says you're telling me that for 60% of the field, Brandon Aubrey can kick a field goal for three points. But if a defense backs up an offense so close to their goal line and then manages to sack the quarterback into their own end zone, that is only worth two points. That doesn't seem right. I have never agreed with a goddamn email someone sent, ever. How the fuck is a safety worth less than a field should be worth? Crazy.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. I think at the very least, it should be worth three.

[Danny Heifetz]

You could argue it's worth more than a touchdown. He said eight or 10. I think it should be worth. I think eight or 10. It should be worth more than a touchdown.

[Craig Worldbeck]

It can't be worth more than a touchdown because then if you.

[Bill Simmons]

You.

[Craig Worldbeck]

If you sack a guy and he fumbles and you pick up the ball.

[Danny Heifetz]

Right, don't get tackled in your own zone. I think the answer, though, I think.

[Craig Worldbeck]

The answer is it's not. You can't make something worth more points because it's more rare. It has to be worth less than a touchdown.

[Danny Heifetz]

I think the answer.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Better to get a touchdown. It's better to take the football away from the opponent and. And score a touchdown.

[Danny Heifetz]

Fair. But I think the answer should be 4. I think a safety should be worth more than a field goal should be worth.

[Craig Worldbeck]

I think four or five. Yeah, I.

[Bill Simmons]

There's something the NFL doesn't like. Safeties. I feel like they don't like that they exist. The refs are always trying to wiggle out of safet every. If there's a blade of grass that the ball is over, they will not call it a safety. It happened in the fucking Cowboys.

[Danny Heifetz]

That is the rule. Literally, if there's literally a blade of grass.

[Bill Simmons]

But, like, it's so clear. It was Dak, right, who got sacked. They end up calling it a safety. I can't remember, but they. No, they overturned it, dude. It's like he. He. He like, lands five feet deep into the end zone, and it's like. Yeah, but right when the guy started looking at impact, he was an inch over the line, maybe. So it's not a safety. If that was back and they had to down the ball where he was, it would be in the end zone.

[Craig Worldbeck]

That was one of another. One of those plays, Craig, where the. I don't know who it was. Terry or whoever came in and was like, yeah, that should have definitely been a safety. And they, like, found another angle somewhere. I don't know.

[Bill Simmons]

The refs are. They will do anything to not call a safety.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Yeah, it's true. It's weird. The bar for a safety is like.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't think they like to do the motion.

[Danny Heifetz]

You think that because they probably. You know why? They probably have pit stakes.

[Bill Simmons]

They don't like such an. It's. It's like kind of a turn off Probably, Yeah.

[Danny Heifetz]

It's embarrassing.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. I was like, that's the hinge profile photo of like, you at your job.

[Danny Heifetz]

No, that's. That's too humiliating. You can't do it.

[Craig Worldbeck]

What are the other really bad motions that the refs have to do?

[Bill Simmons]

Carlos is big on this. He had. He has one. Carlos, get in here. You don't. You have one you said is really bad.

[Craig Worldbeck]

I don't remember what it's for, but my favorite one is the one where.

[Danny Heifetz]

They put their hands on their head.

And it's like the surrender cobra thing.

[Bill Simmons]

It's so vulnerable.

[Craig Worldbeck]

You could argue that's the best one.

[Bill Simmons]

That one's great. I'm gonna look that up. Loss of down. It's loss of down.

Exposing yourself.

[Craig Worldbeck]

The one that always makes me laugh.

[Danny Heifetz]

Like the pumps, the key appeal when.

[Craig Worldbeck]

They'Re out of bounds, the refs have to do this big dramatic swing of the arms. He's like, no, they're out.

[Bill Simmons]

They're out.

Waving a plane in. They're out sending a guy home.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Yeah.

Way out of bounds.

[Danny Heifetz]

It's also so funny. Anytime they have to throw something that's not the flag and they have to throw like there's like a contact or something. Throw their little card at the spot.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Oh, yeah. If there's like a take off. If there's a fumble on a play where a guy goes out of bounds and then comes back in, they gotta like, they're like fumbling for their keys, trying to get it to the lock, you know, like, they're like, take it. They're like, oh, God, take off my hat, dude. Throwing my throw in my game back.

[Bill Simmons]

There's no amount of money that you could pay me to be a ref.

[Craig Worldbeck]

No, it's the worst.

[Bill Simmons]

I never do it. I don't care. And I know I don't h. I'm. How much does it pay, do you know? Is it like 500?

[Danny Heifetz]

It used to be 125, like 15 years ago, so I think now it's like 200. But they're all lawyers. They're all successful lawyers. Like, they all do this for fun.

[Bill Simmons]

200 is not high enough, I think. Right?

[Danny Heifetz]

Well, that's why they did a lockout.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Well, they should have full time refs.

[Danny Heifetz]

Well, they don't. They don't want. The NFL doesn't want them to.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Yeah, I know, but I want them to.

[Danny Heifetz]

They make $205,000 dollars. The NFL doesn't want them to because then they'd have to pay them money and benefits. And also they'd rather all the rest be really, really wealthy lawyers so that they don't actually need to accept or whatever. They'd rather all the rest actually quietly be really athletic millionaires.

[Bill Simmons]

But if you pay them really well, then they wouldn't accept bribes.

[Danny Heifetz]

Yeah, but the NFL doesn't want to do that. You think the NFL wants to pay them? That's fair.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Craig.

I don't know.

[Danny Heifetz]

The NFL literally had a lockout with the referees and they replaced all of them.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Replacement refs.

[Bill Simmons]

Remember the south park episode about that?

[Danny Heifetz]

It's unbelievable.

No. God, no. That was like 2012. Jesus Christ. 5th, 2014. It's the last time the Chiefs didn't make the playoffs. Coincidence, actually. Don't know if that year lines up.

[Bill Simmons]

Also, the Chiefs were not a famous team then.

[Danny Heifetz]

It was 2012.

[Craig Worldbeck]

They weren't a famous team.

[Bill Simmons]

They weren't.

[Craig Worldbeck]

I like the word famous. They're not famous.

[Danny Heifetz]

Ick of the week.

[Craig Worldbeck]

This is funny because I feel like I've been a Mike Kosicki defender for most of his career. I'm always like, he's better than people think he is. He, like, has all these big games. Can he please just not celebrate like he won the super bowl after every single time he catches the football, every single play he makes, he's getting up, doing some dance, doing some like, choreographed thing. The gritty, like, act like you've been there when you catch like a. A six yard play on third down.

[Bill Simmons]

Every time I see Mike Asiki, I'm like, your body doesn't look right to me. It's too.

[Craig Worldbeck]

It's gangly.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. I'm like, you're tight. What are you?

[Craig Worldbeck]

He's like a 13 year old.

[Bill Simmons]

Looks like Bo Burnham out there. I'm like, what are you? How are you? Good, but you are.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Yeah. It is bizarre.

[Danny Heifetz]

I think the whitest thing about me is that when Mike Kosicki does the gritty and everyone makes fun of me, I'm like, it looks fine to me.

Yeah, that is.

[Bill Simmons]

I agree.

[Danny Heifetz]

Mike Kasiki's gritty's fine. I don't really get what the criticism is.

[Bill Simmons]

His gritty is not an ick to me.

[Danny Heifetz]

Yeah, it's.

[Craig Worldbeck]

No, it's not the fact that he is relatively good at the gritty. It's that he just celebrates like, he won this. It's like, like, you know, in basketball. Did you. Have you guys seen basketball?

[Danny Heifetz]

Yes.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Where they're talking about just guys celebrating and choreograph everything. I just have visions of basketball every time Mike Isiki catches a pass, fireworks going off and I'm like, jesus, man.

[Danny Heifetz]

Well, there's so few catches. He never knows what's gonna happen again.

[Craig Worldbeck]

I'm not like, most of the time I'm like, I think people should be able to celebrate. Like, I think it's ridiculous when the NFL find finds people or, or calls penalties on celebrations. Like, I think the joy of the game. But just with Mike Kosicki in particular, I'm like, calm down.

[Bill Simmons]

I feel that way about Bryce Young. I'm like, smile less, Bryce. Smile less.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Yeah, just a little.

[Bill Simmons]

We're gladiators out here. All right, Smile.

[Danny Heifetz]

My ick of the week was, this is not even close. It's Notre Dame crashing out because they didn't make the College Football Playoff.

[Bill Simmons]

I, I didn't know you could do that.

[Craig Worldbeck]

They threw a tantrum.

[Danny Heifetz]

True.

[Bill Simmons]

I didn't know you could say, like, we're withdrawing our name from the bowl games. We don't want to play.

[Danny Heifetz]

I am so embarrassed for everybody involved. I, I, I am so embarrassed for all of these people, all the, everyone involved who made this decision. So just to take a step back, so the College Football Playoff, they have the 12 team field now. Notre Dame did not get in. And this was a little controversial because, you know, Miami got in, Alabama got in two group of, you know, Tulane got in, James Madison got him. We can go to all that. That I get why Notre Dame is mad. And like just to go through it, basically.

It'S kind of really simple. It was a weird process, but the right decision because Miami and Notre Dame were, it was like Notre Dame was ahead of Miami for like the whole time.

[Bill Simmons]

None of this even matters though. The point is, is like, regardless if you don't make it, don't be a little bitch and opt out of playing in a bowl game.

[Danny Heifetz]

Exactly. You know what? We're going to show you that we could have won a national championship.

[Craig Worldbeck]

We're taking our ball and going, yeah.

[Danny Heifetz]

We'Re just not gonna play ever again. We'll show you. I'm like, go home. No one cares. Should I have a conference? Shut the up.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Danny Heifetz]

So embarrassing.

[Bill Simmons]

Wiping all, like grabbing the Monopoly board and just throwing it on the ground.

[Danny Heifetz]

I would have won though. Shut up, nerd. Oh, my God. It's like all these teens that have lost, like the big law school colleges are always the Michigan when they get accused of the cheating or whatever, they're like, shut the upper up. Oh my God, it's so annoying. And on top of that, I wanted there's a person who posted. I don't know who this person is. His name's Graham Coffee, who I guess covers Georgia. And he fucking nailed it. Because two years ago was a crazy thing which at the last year of the 14 playoff and it was when Michigan was undefeated, Washington was undefeated, Texas won the, you know, Texas was a one loss team, all this stuff and he was like, Georgia had won 29 straight games and they lost the SEC championship by three points to Alabama and was kind of controversial in the SEC title and Georgia dropped from 1 to 6 and so they didn't win the conference, but they didn't even get close to making it. Like Florida State was ahead of them. And then instead of being like, well we're just not going to play, they went and played Florida State and they won 63 to fucking three in the bowl game. And everyone was like, you know what? We probably should have put Georgia. And they're probably the best team. And you know what? They probably could have beaten Michigan that year, but they didn't make it.

[Bill Simmons]

And that, that, that had, that compounds. That helps the next year you start, you think about stuff like that, that stuff lives in your mind, the committee's mind, things like that. It's super lame.

[Danny Heifetz]

100%.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, you're turning down money like you get paid to play ball games.

[Danny Heifetz]

This Graham, this Graham Coffee guy who covers Georgia put it, put my thoughts better than I could have. And he said, how you do anything is how you do everything. If your core program traits only matter when things go your way, they don't matter at all. Notre Dame just told their players it's okay to quit when things don't go your way. I think they'll have negative consequences on the immediate future of their program. I totally agree. It is crazy to be like, well, we didn't get our way. It's like, you know what? Back in my day, if you wanted to win a championship, you didn't start fucking 0 and 2. And then also they're not even bitching about the pro. They're not even saying we should have gotten in over Miami because they lost head to head to Miami. They're like, well, why did you wait to tell us till the end? Yeah, they should have told you, but you also fucking knew. It's so embarrassing to just not play.

[Bill Simmons]

In an unrelated note, I'm, I'm opting out of the toilet bowl of the ringer league. I don't, I'm not, I don't agree.

[Craig Worldbeck]

With, because of the rule that you made.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't agree with that.

[Craig Worldbeck]

If any NFL team was going to do this, who would it be? I don't know what the context is.

They didn't like their seating. They didn't want to play on wild card weekend. Would just be like Philly.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know.

[Danny Heifetz]

Silly. Like we're disrespected.

[Bill Simmons]

That's a great question.

Who was the most opposed to the Tushbush?

[Craig Worldbeck]

The Packers.

[Danny Heifetz]

Yeah, the packers not having an owner is kind of like the Notre Dame not having a conference. They're very powerful and also not powerful at all. It's kind of weird.

[Craig Worldbeck]

I can't remember actually if they were.

[Bill Simmons]

Or not, but I don't know. Let's just say the Raiders.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Yeah, the Raiders. For some reason, the Patriots came to mind.

[Danny Heifetz]

Craig, what's your favorite Tom Brady moment today?

[Bill Simmons]

Right, so he did. Bears, Packers. I've, I've. I discovered his crutch words today. It's absolute. It's like when he has nothing to say. It's like the Snickers commercial. You got to chew the Snickers while you're thinking. He just fills in absolute when he's got nothing. Sometimes absolute doesn't even really make sense in the context of what he's saying. He'll be like, it was an absolute collision. And you're like, I guess, like, there was one blown coverage. I think it was one of the Watson touchdowns. And he was like, it was an absolute mix up in coverage. Like, yeah, he absolute dog. But you, you can't unhear it now. There's like 15 absolutes a game.

[Craig Worldbeck]

There was Craig. There was one play that I. That made me think of you today. I think I'm pretty sure it was. There was a play late in the game, in the packers game where Josh Jacobs, he like.

Got t. Like, he got impacted behind the line of scrimmage, but then broke like three tackle, broke through three tackles and then like picked up a first down, picked up a bunch of extra yards and you know, the play by play call. KB is like calling the play. And then there was just like a moment or two of dead air. And then Brady came in and goes, how did he do that?

[Bill Simmons]

How'd you come up with that, Tom? Wow. That's what I'm saying. In these big moments, he's got. It's just dead.

[Craig Worldbeck]

But it was like a very distinct, like, pause. And then Brady jumps in. How did he do that?

[Bill Simmons]

That KB That. How did he do that KB Dude? Also, unfortunately for Tom, his voice goes hoarse at the end of every game and of course, that's when the game is the most dramatic. So these big plays are happening in the fourth quarter, and he's so hoarse and scratchy, and he's, like, trying his best to yell through it. It's tough.

[Danny Heifetz]

A lot of really clutch. A lot of really clutch athletes. Their voices are kind of an ick, if we're being honest.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, Mahomes homes.

[Danny Heifetz]

Fernando Mendoza in Indiana, like, they won that game. Indiana is, like, the worst college football team ever. 150 years. They win. They won the Big Ten the first time since, like, World War II. And then Fernando Mendoza goes on. He's like, yeah, we're flipping champions. I'm like, all right. Flipping.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know how we even put that in the ick of the week. Flipping.

[Danny Heifetz]

That was. That was a huge. I'm talking. I was like, I don't want this guy.

[Bill Simmons]

I literally. If I'm a gm, I'm like, I don't think so.

[Danny Heifetz]

We're flipping champions. Yeah. I'm like, all right. Right.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. That's not going to cut it.

[Craig Worldbeck]

If you watch that interview on mute and just watch his, like, hand movements. It's. It's also kind of a nick.

[Danny Heifetz]

It was a massive nick. It was such an ick. I. Yeah, no, it's. Want to see him talk to CJ Gardner Johnson or something?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

It'S just not going to work. I don't know.

[Craig Worldbeck]

I don't know.

[Bill Simmons]

That guy can't be in the NFL.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Like, he.

[Danny Heifetz]

What's.

[Bill Simmons]

What is he going to say? Way to, like Miles Garrett. I don't. How's that gonna work?

[Danny Heifetz]

Like, oh, these are why the Kirk Cousins comps. Got it, got it, got it. Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

Literally. Yeah.

[Craig Worldbeck]

That's why you like that.

[Danny Heifetz]

The Lucille Bluth. I don't understand the stat line. I won't respond to it a word. I mean, this wasn't even a stat. It's the headline. It was just like, number one quarterback, overall, high school recruit in America, decommits from Georgia, will attend Vanderbilt. And I kind of was like, the. Like, I was like, whoa. I knew that. Well, he's from Nashville, which is one thing, but I knew that all the rules and everything was different now. Yeah, but it still doesn't mean it. It. It. It's not weird to see.

[Bill Simmons]

I totally agree. That stuff never sits right.

[Danny Heifetz]

Just odd. Oh, the number one recruit in America is going to go to Vanderbil. He's like, I want to be part of what we're building here. I was like, oh, cool. Okay. It's Weird.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, the BYU guy. The guy on AJ Duke player who went to byu.

[Danny Heifetz]

That's a perfect example.

[Bill Simmons]

I can never say his last name. Deban. AJ Debanza. Yeah, he's just like on byu, he's like the best player in college basketball. I'm like, what?

[Danny Heifetz]

The bizarre. It's, it's. It's. I. It makes me feel old because I feel like I don't recognize.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm like, what is this?

[Danny Heifetz]

It's crazy.

[Craig Worldbeck]

All right.

[Danny Heifetz]

Two players who outscored Justin Jefferson this week in a lie.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Oh, God.

[Danny Heifetz]

All right. Dylan Drummond.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know who that is.

[Craig Worldbeck]

I literally have never heard of this man.

[Danny Heifetz]

Isaiah Williams, Jets. Hunter Yurichek.

[Craig Worldbeck]

That's a baseball player from the 60s.

[Danny Heifetz]

Dylan Drummond, Isaiah Williams, Hunter Yuricheck. Two of these people.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know what team Dylan Drummond or Hunter Yuricheck are on.

[Danny Heifetz]

All right, I'll give you a hint. One of these people is the head of the College Football Playoff committee.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Okay.

[Danny Heifetz]

And two of them outscored Justin Jefferson this week. Dylan Drummond, Isaiah Williams, and Hunter is Dill.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm gonna say.

Hunter Urichek is the head of the committee is my guess.

[Danny Heifetz]

Dk, do you agree?

[Craig Worldbeck]

I was thinking Eurocheck sounds like some third string tight end, so I'm gonna go with that.

[Danny Heifetz]

Craig is correct. Hunter Euro checks. The head of the College Football Playoff committee. Dylan Drummond is some dude on the Falcons who outscored Justin Jefferson?

[Craig Worldbeck]

Dylan Drummond.

[Danny Heifetz]

Dylan Drummond outscored Justin Jefferson today in fantasy. Justin Jefferson, who was top five in receiving yards in the first nine weeks of the season. Justin Jefferson now is behind John Mechi in receiving yards the last four weeks.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Cripes.

[Bill Simmons]

That's not great.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Dylan Drummond played for Eastern Michigan.

[Bill Simmons]

Dude, the other guy, the. The. The UNC guy who's also on the NCAA Basketball committee. Bubba Cunningham.

[Danny Heifetz]

That one.

[Bill Simmons]

Always Bubba Cun, the AD of North Carolina. But he's also the chairman of the NCAA Tournament selection committee. And UNC was on the bubble last year. In shocker, they made it.

[Danny Heifetz]

That's crazy. Quite the year for Bubba. True Belichick thing. Maybe it was Ball don't lie.

[Bill Simmons]

Bubba's got his hands full.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Heifetz. Hunter, you're a check. Went to Richmond.

[Danny Heifetz]

Oh, did he really? Oh, probably blew that one for myself.

[Bill Simmons]

Oops. You buried the lead, I guess, by doing this. Or you spoiled it. Justin Jefferson has to be the burn book. We gave it to Roma Dunes last week. Has to be. Just.

[Danny Heifetz]

No, I think just. We burned Justin Jefferson last week.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh. Was Roma Dunes the Week before that.

[Danny Heifetz]

Yeah.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Oh.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean look, we talked about Baker and Mecca Abuka. One of those could be on it, I think.

[Danny Heifetz]

Yes. We burned Justin Jefferson last week. I'm. I'm almost positive. Yeah, we did 13. So. Yeah. Cause Roma Dunu is week 12. Justin Jefferson's week 13. Lamar did well today. So Lamar's off. Ibuka. I will just say so Emeka Buka, which is a little controversial because he was so good for you.

[Bill Simmons]

No, it's him. He's had double digit points once since week six. If you want to do the. The waddle model one game since week six. He has exceeded the waddle model once, man.

[Danny Heifetz]

And you've played him like every time. I don't think he's going to bench Himoko Buco.

[Craig Worldbeck]

But that's. Yeah, you have to start him because if he's on your team because he.

[Danny Heifetz]

Got you like the crazy thing about fantasy is let's say like maybe he was so good for you in the beginning. Let's just say you started 2 and 3 or 3 and 2 even though you had a mecha buka since that like he's he. If you start. If you didn't win, if you just randomly were two and three to start and you had a muka buka and you didn't take advantage of it, he's probably been a net negative on your season because if you didn't win in that stretch, he certainly hasn't helped you since then.

[Bill Simmons]

Dude. Here since week six. 375-26-55-6462. I mean he's like. He's like Pat Frier Booth.

[Danny Heifetz]

Oh, when you put it like that. Are we going to do it? We're going to burn a Mecha Vuka. That's crazy.

[Bill Simmons]

We have to. It's. It's worse than I thought, to be honest.

[Danny Heifetz]

So I'm going to just plug in right now. Since week six, where does he rank and just. I'm going to total point. Yeah. He's behind Jaden Higgins. He's behind Tez Johnson and Khon Booty and Parker Washington and Romeo Dubs. How many waiver ads he's buying Khmer DK on the Titans. Oh my God. Yeah.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Yeah.

[Danny Heifetz]

We gotta. Christ. We. He's buying DJ Moore which is shocking. People hate DJ Moore. Jacoby Myers. Oh my God. Yeah. I think we gotta. That's crazy.

Woof. All right. Yeah. It. But yeah. Yeah. He has one more point.

[Craig Worldbeck]

That is actually eye opening. I did not realize how bad he's been.

[Danny Heifetz]

He's been book has Two more points since Mac Hol than Ma Holland since week six. Oh, all right. Yeah. I'm not good. Is. Are we going to burn him, though? We love. No, I think we have to. That's crazy. Crazy.

[Bill Simmons]

We're doing it.

[Danny Heifetz]

All right, Ameca Booker, you're in the burn book. That's. That's. I actually am really sad about that. That makes me upset.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Yeah, that's.

[Bill Simmons]

Pat Friar move has has outscored him since week six.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Okay, serious.

[Danny Heifetz]

That. Yeah, he's cooked. All right, Abuka, you're in the burn book in.

[Bill Simmons]

In one less game. But whatever.

[Danny Heifetz]

That's. It's the spirit. All right. That's all we got. Thank you, dk. Thank you, Craig. Thank you, Carlos. Thank you, Kai. Thank you, Ryan. Thank you, Ryan. Thank you, Austin. Thank you, Evan, for listening. Email us at ringer fantasy football gmail dot com. Send us trivia questions, send us fantasy courts, send us emails. Include your breakfasts. Yeah. Thank you, Lord.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Lord.

[Bill Simmons]

Thank you.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Fits in the Tantrums.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, I love Fits in the Tantrums. Nice one.

[Danny Heifetz]

I'm. I'm like the Bears versus the packers on these bands. I'm one from the last 13.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, I, I know they have that song like hands clap or I can make your hands clap. That's not my favorite song of theirs. That they have Money grabbers out of my league. Oh, yeah. Out of my League's a big one. I, I like Money Grabber, I think is one of theirs. Okay. They're good, though.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Hi.

[Bill Simmons]

But you would like them.

[Danny Heifetz]

I, I, I already don't remember the name of the band. The Tantrums.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Fits in the Tantrums. The Tantrums.

[Bill Simmons]

You. You would know. They're big, like out of my League, Hand clap, and the Walker. You would know all those songs.

[Danny Heifetz]

Okay.

[Craig Worldbeck]

I like bands that have names like that where it's the lead singer and his backup band or her backup band, brand.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I know.

[Danny Heifetz]

It's like, it's. It is a great formula.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I agree. School Hivetz wanted that to be this podcast. It was going to be like Danny Heifetz and the Football boys.

[Craig Worldbeck]

And then we're like the Football Boys.

[Bill Simmons]

The Diaper Boys, Danny Hives in the East Street Band.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Yeah, there you go.

[Bill Simmons]

Dude, I can't believe Burn Book. The last four weeks of the Burn Book are Four really good NFL players. A.J. brown, Roma Dunes, a Justin Jefferson, and a Mecca.

[Danny Heifetz]

And we were this. If we put Lamar in last week, we would be putting Justin Jefferson. It would be almost A.J. brown. It didn't say Justin Jefferson and Lamar yeah, my God. Come a long way from when it was Tony Pollard and Bill Merritt.

[Craig Worldbeck]

Bill me got real.

[Danny Heifetz]

Goodbye everyone.

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