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The Ringer NBA Show
Breaking Down the Rookie Extension Deadline Buzzer-Beaters. Plus, Awards and Finals Picks.
01:12:59
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- [00:11]
Justin Verrier
Hello and welcome to Group Chat. I am Justin Verrier, and sitting right next to me, it's Rob Mahoney. What's up, buddy?
- [00:18]
Rob Mahoney
Not a lot. I am recently revived from the dead. Been battling illness for what feels like months now, but I'm alive with the spirit of the NBA season. I simply could not miss the start of all this.
- [00:30]
Justin Verrier
What's your cough for? 36 right now.
- [00:32]
Rob Mahoney
Terrible or good? I guess it depends on your frame of mind.
- [00:35]
Justin Verrier
Yeah. So we're recording this on the eve of the NBA season yet again. I think this is my 18th season covering the NBA.
- [00:42]
Rob Mahoney
How does that make you feel?
- [00:43]
Justin Verrier
Old as shit. But these bones are still getting up for. I'm very excited for tomorrow.
- [00:48]
Rob Mahoney
You know what made me feel old as shit? The someone for a social clip. I'm so sorry for not attributing. I can't remember who did this. Pass Cooper flag a pack of basketball cards from his birth year. Opened it and had to see how many players he recognized. Alarmingly few. And yet these are our guys. It was like the level of awareness among the youth of even like Hidu Turkoglu is devastatingly low.
- [01:10]
Justin Verrier
Yeah, they did one of those social clips for one of the overseas games where they're like, oh, the last time we've been in this location, I forgot the location. It was like a LeBron team versus, I want to say the Magic. When Dwight were there and the players could not get any of them. I think like, Jagor Demon was like, oh, I was one when this game happened. I was like, jesus Christ. Time has passed us by. So wait, do you know what season this is for you? You haven't been tracking this, like, religiously?
- [01:36]
Rob Mahoney
Like 2008.
- [01:37]
Justin Verrier
Okay. It's about the same time.
- [01:38]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, about the same timeline. So I feel similarly in touch with my own mortality, similarly devastated by every passing year, and yet enlivened. You know, we're still here. We're still doing this. Somehow.
- [01:48]
Justin Verrier
Yeah, somehow.
- [01:51]
Sponsor Voice 1
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- [02:20]
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- [02:50]
Justin Verrier
Well, we're going to get into some of our predictions for this upcoming regular season. We still have awards picks, we still have finals picks even though we went what, six plus hours on every single team. So check those out if you haven't already. There's probably still some stuff to mine from there for our preseason power ranking spectacular extravaganza. But first we have to start with a little bit of news. On the eve of the NBA season, as we typically get, this was the deadline for extensions to be signed, specifically rookie contract extensions. So players going into their fourth year in total we have nine signed. But I think even before that we had some that were pretty much just like expected. All the max guys, the Paulo Bankeros, the Chat Holmgren, that's a separate category that we got done with during the regular, during the summer. But now these were like the buzzer beaters. These are more interesting guys who could have been, you could have signed them and, and just let them go through the season and see what happened. Maybe you, they would outperform and you'd have to pay them more or you just lock them up now. So an interesting lot of guys, I would say.
- [03:50]
Rob Mahoney
I mean usually if you're still there by this point, the open and shut cases are long since done. These are the more marginal cases. These are role players in some cases, guys you want to invest in but aren't quite there yet. There's always like this is the area where there's negotiation to do. Right. There's actual movement in terms of who Shaden Sharp believes he will be and who the Portland Trailblazers think he might be.
- [04:11]
Justin Verrier
Yes. And we have to start as we always should with the Portland Trailblazers who made two of the bigger splashes before the deadline hit. Shane Sharp, as Rob mentioned, was the first one four years, $90 million. And then to Mani Kamara. Yeah, our guy, our potential goat. He locked in a 4 for 82. He was a little bit of a different case. He was the year after, the director after. But because he was a second rounder, the Blazers basically got ahead of this. He was going to have a team option for next year and then he was going to be a restricted free agent so they pretty much locked up the core of the young team, minus Scoot Henderson. I think this is a good idea to do in advance specifically for Shaden. We should maybe take him one at a time because Shaden has played particularly well in the preseason and because of some of the injuries they've had on the roster. Scoot Henderson first and foremost, but also because of the way the team is constructed for this year. It really is a showcase opportunity for Shaden to be the go to scorer on this team.
- [05:10]
Rob Mahoney
It's also the kind of case where he is the sort of player where if he is the best version of himself, he wildly outperforms this contract. He's so that kind of score is so distinctly valuable that you feel okay, whatever your hesitations may be taking the gamble like Shaden Sharp, I will admit a lot of times is not my kind of player. And yet if I were running a team, how do you not continue to at least play it out? He's so young, he's still so raw. The hesitation for me, and this is something you think about a lot with guys on extensions is like, are you trying to fix skill? And like are they trying to hone? Does too many come on each to hit more threes more reliably? Right? Like that's a skill question. The things with Shade and Sharp that are holding him back are like disposition questions.
- [05:52]
Justin Verrier
Will he show up today? Will he play well?
- [05:54]
Rob Mahoney
Will he care literally any second that he's playing defense, Will he move the ball in these ways? Will he hit the glass? It's like these are hard things to teach and yet we have seen enough guys make those like progressive jumps, especially young players learning to invest on defense. It's a normal arc for a lot of guys over the course of their careers. With him it's going to be more like is he getting to the basket consistently? Is he, is he not stopping short when he's the most explosive athlete not just on the floor but in the hemisphere and you know, can he continue to kind of push the boundaries of his game in that way where he's rewarding this sort of investment?
- [06:26]
Justin Verrier
So it was good in that respect because they could get ahead of what could be a breakthrough year for him. He, he could be a 20 plus point per game scorer, not only because he has that in him, but also he, the team is basically set up where their starting unit, which he presumably will be a factor in, is a lot of defense first wings who provide some on offense to varying degrees. You have a Deni Abdia, he could Do a lot. A lot of his head first crash course sort of drives were a big part of their offense last year when they made a jump in the second half. But it's also a lot of Tomani Kamaras. It's Donovan Klingan who's really still trying to find himself offensively. Drew Holiday would be the fifth guy who's like more of a bonus guy who's going to play in between in the same way Abdi and Kamara do. So that's the good side of it.
- [07:07]
Rob Mahoney
Sure.
- [07:08]
Justin Verrier
The bad side is perhaps they just took away the motivation from Shaden to just outperform what he might have been offered otherwise or what he was expecting. Restricted free agent and all of a sudden now he can coast, which is the biggest problem with him. If he had like the dog in him in the same way that Scoot does, Shane would be one of the best players in the league. But he tends to be a very sleepy sort of guy and tough to motivate, to tap into all those supreme skills.
- [07:34]
Rob Mahoney
Some dogs are sleepy, that's true. Many dogs are sleepy and fast.
- [07:37]
Justin Verrier
I'm a sleepy dog.
- [07:39]
Rob Mahoney
People do say that about you. I mean, look, this is again like a. Yet another way in which you not only need to be locked in on the specifics of every aspect of a player's skill set, how they fit within your team, how they, you know, the synergy of Tomani and Denny and Shaden and how these guys all fit together. You need to know the psychology of Shaydon Sharp. Like if you are the coach, if you're the general manager, if you're someone in touch with him professionally in that way, like you need to understand that aspect of it and you hope that's the case. But then, look, these things are so dicey because it's like if you don't give him the extension, then sometimes you risk like miffing him and then they get turned off and they start looking around in restricted free agency. Then they get pissed when you match the offer. It can just turn into a whole ass mess so quickly that a lot of teams do try to get ahead of this stuff if they feel at all invested in what a player is going to be. And I think with Shaden, not only is he good enough and talented enough to take the plunge, he's also enticing enough that if he became the centerpiece of a trade for a future star in some way or another because some other team was high on what he could be, that would be fine too. Like, that's that's kind of where I am with, with these Blazers moves, is they're investing a lot of salary in a team that does not have apparent superstars on it. But sometimes you're going to have to trade these guys at these higher numbers and that's really the only way you're going to get any meaningful move done.
- [08:56]
Justin Verrier
Yeah, kind of like a Jalen Green from last year. They signed that contract presumably to trade. Eventually they put him as part of the package for Kevin Durant this offseason.
- [09:04]
Rob Mahoney
But maybe don't trade him like two years too late.
- [09:06]
Justin Verrier
That'd be nice. I mean, with Shaden, the problem is when you draft him, when you draft a player who bypassed college just because he just didn't want to play and he was just so raw and so young from the jump, you practically bound yourself to giving him an extension because you probably weren't going to figure out who he was in that first contract.
- [09:25]
Rob Mahoney
Right.
- [09:25]
Justin Verrier
So in my opinion, like this was going to happen as soon as you drafted him just because you had to take a longer view with someone that young. Tony. The complete opposite situation where he was an older player coming out of college. Two separate college stints at Georgia and then Daytona. And he's also someone who proved pretty immediately, I think, in his rookie years that he could bring it defensively in the last year. No doubt played the offense enough to stay on the court and then became one of the best defenders in the league, second team, all defense. Obviously the apple of my eye watched him very keenly last year. I think this is good not only because Tomani proved what an essential part of that core he is and he is with Denny. I think the two guys that they're kind of foundational building around at this point, I think there's more to tap into offensively. Yeah, he hit threes last year at a consistent rate. We'll see if he can do it again. But like, there's real feel to his game that I think he will show and if you got ahead of that, I think then you're getting a bargain deal.
- [10:17]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, I think there's also something with these no fuss players and Jimani Kamara is very much a no fuss player. Like roll the ball out, he will dig into guys, he will play his part. He's like a good cooperative role player. Sometimes you take advantage of those players. If you're a team by like, oh, I'm going to make them wait, I'm going to use their cap hold, we're going to open up all this space sometimes you just give the no fuss guy the no fuss contract. And this to me was that like, you just play it very simply, very straightforwardly with a guy who has become a pillar of your organization. Like, he is one of the most reliable things in Portland Trailblazers basketball. Why not reward that? Why not lock that player into a longer term deal at a, at a fairly reasonable rate, depending on his offensive development. Like he, he does need to prove more not just as a shooter but, but in leveraging the kind of feel you're talking about, like, how are you able to be a better connector if you're not going to be trusted or really threaten opposing defenses from the corners or from the wings. Yeah.
- [11:14]
Justin Verrier
There's some like fussing over the fact that because he's a different type of player, he wasn't one of these rookie contract free agents that like, maybe they could have taken him into the team option next year. And like, why did you have to do this so soon? I can see that if you're more of a cap nerd. They ultimately paid him, I believe like only a couple million lessons than was his max. They gave him 82. I think he was eligible for 87. Ultimately. I think those sorts of things come in the wash, come out in the wash. And I think you're right. A player like him who's shown that like, as a young player we want to build around his like, disposition or just his skill set, like, you don't really want to chance it at this point.
- [11:50]
Rob Mahoney
What he represents is the best things about where Portland is.
- [11:54]
Justin Verrier
Yeah.
- [11:55]
Rob Mahoney
So yeah, I don't really want to rock that particular boat.
- [11:57]
Justin Verrier
Yes. Unfortunately for the Suns, who just gave him away in the DeAndre Ayton trade, they certainly did other ones that happened today. Christian Brown, five years, 125 million, some money. Brown is a player, I think universally. I think people just love high Q rating. Absolutely. He's the Rob Mahoney of hustle players. I'm glad for him. I'm glad that they locked him up. I'm a little worried about the Denver Nuggets books going forward. Stop me if you've heard this before. I'm a little worried they may have pushed it in terms of an extension.
- [12:30]
Rob Mahoney
Yes and no. Look, it's a lot of money and by committing to this, I think they're effectively locking themselves into the first apron. And probably if they do anything significant after this, it's going to be second apron territory pretty pretty much immediately. That's tough. Their team's also kind of built. Yeah. So like yes, Historically this is an ownership group in a team that has had to make like, had to make. Has chosen to make financial concessions with certain free agents or, or just like hard lines on like we are not going to pay this guy, we're not going to pay that guy. We're going to trust that these younger players can develop. Hasn't always worked out. Exactly. This is one of those cases where the young guy did develop. And Denver historically again locks in anybody who clicks there, anybody who works. It worked out pretty well. And like there is a sticker shot quality to Christian Brown at 25 million a year on average. Like that's, that's a lot of money. I think especially if you've been following the NBA for a long time like us old ass guys have. Like there's, there is just something you have to get over with that hump. But then when you think about who's making 25 million in the league right now, here's a list. Devin Vassell, RJ Barrett, Jaden McDaniels, Josh Giddy, Anthony Simons, Jabari Smith Jr. Also on an extension previously agreed to. You're telling me Christian Brown like isn't in the ranks of those guys?
- [13:47]
Justin Verrier
I think there is a little bit of a sticker shop happening where it's like not only that but some of the annual values of the extensions we're literally seeing today and yesterday are circling this.25 a year. Like Dyson Daniels, who we could talk about next. Like 25 million. We just talked about Shaden and Kamara. 22 and a half. 20 and a half. Keegan Murray, 28. Like it's all in that same range. It probably is just going to take us a little bit to get used to. Like that's, that's like just starter level money.
- [14:12]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah. Or like you're betting that they could be slightly better than your average starter. Yeah, Christian Brown's better than your average starter. And like yes, he is a role player by any definition. Sometimes the role players part of your core. Like sometimes he is essential to what you do. You take Christian Brown off of the Nuggets, I think they would be very hard pressed to replace him.
- [14:29]
Justin Verrier
Yeah. The problem with the Nuggets is more historically it's like the stuff of the past. The fact that they just instantly give guys max extensions, including Jamal Murray more recently, what was it last offseason? And it feels better when Murray in particular shows up this preseason.
- [14:44]
Rob Mahoney
And he's looked pretty sharp, looked really good.
- [14:46]
Justin Verrier
He looked locked in. He looks fake fit. I think he has a new hairstyle, which is always kind of cool. But, like, then it feels better to maybe put yourself up against some of the apron stuff because you know that, like, your top guys are coming. It's. It's much more treacherous when Murray is, like, coming in and out. He's like, like going to UFC fights in showing up the next day. Yeah, I feel a little bit better about the Brown contract in that regard, but I will say, like, the. The front office keeps changing in Denver. They keep just. Just giving guys as much as they want. It's. It's a little disappointing.
- [15:14]
Rob Mahoney
Keep changing, keep staying the same. I think where I come down on it is, if you're going to draw the line somewhere, why are you drawing the line with a guy who plays hard as hell, who is a really good defender, who was one of the most improved players in the league last season, expanded basically every single area of his game? When you're already a veteran team and you're, You're. Yes. You're waiting on Peyton Watson, who we should say did not get an extension, Julian Strother, Jalen Pickett, like all these guys, like, you're waiting on them to continue to take steps forward. Christian Brown just did it. Like, he did it. He was a part of the championship core of the team already. He's only getting better and better. And he, to me, he is indispensable to the way the Nuggets play.
- [15:53]
Justin Verrier
Yeah, they built their entire, like, future around these draft picks. It's good that one of them hit at least one.
- [15:58]
Rob Mahoney
That's all you need, honestly. Like, they're in really good shape with only one of them really hitting.
- [16:03]
Justin Verrier
Didn't save their GM's job, but, you know, at least Christian Brown is still soldiering on. We mentioned Dyson Daniels, 4 for 100. I believe this is the Josh Giddy deal, which in that comparison, it looks pretty good.
- [16:15]
Rob Mahoney
This is incredibly reasonable. Yeah, I am a little shocked that it didn't take more than this to get the deal done for the Hawks.
- [16:22]
Justin Verrier
Well, I mean, I think it's just the offense. We know Dyson. I mean, reigning most improved player, defensive champion. Just like a guy who could have easily won defensive player of the year last year. Just breaking steals, records, all that. That's there. I think you wonder, what does he have offensively? Can he even get to the heights of last year where he shot the ball reasonably well? A lot of it was just Quinn Snider basically putting his foot down and being like, no, we're going to keep you in Even if you miss.
- [16:46]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, I think the shot is one part of it. And then there is. What is he doing? Attacking closeouts, getting into the lane. It's like the part of him that gets a little timid in those situations, that scares me. Yeah, I thought we saw less of that last year. And, like, that's why I feel encouraged. Is not just all universe defense. It's like, this is a guy who is changing the way he attacks the basket. He's changing the way he gets into the pain and what he does with it, where he now, all of a sudden, is, like, playing in the flow in the way that so many of these Hawks do. And, like, I'm unreasonably high on Atlanta overall, but I'm unreasonably high in part because of players like Dyson Daniels. So, 25 million for arguably the best perimeter defender in the league. A guy who actively changes games, not just matchups, but entire games, with the way he covers, yeah, I'll live with whatever he can't do right this second.
- [17:30]
Justin Verrier
Offensively, seems super reasonable. Also, every time the Hawks are brought, I know, like, the hype train is off the rails at this point, but then I remind myself, like, oh, they have the Pelicans pick. They could easily, like, let's say Trey Young performs okay. They could replace him.
- [17:46]
Rob Mahoney
Why are we trading Trey Young?
- [17:48]
Justin Verrier
Well, I mean, just. Or anyone. Or they could just slide in Darren Peterson into the, like, the Okongu minutes, and all of a sudden, like, they have, like, the even better four, five, some than they have right now.
- [17:59]
Rob Mahoney
I mean, they have tons of options, both with the players they have with these picks at their disposal. I think they have one of the more enviable positions in the league. It's not a clear path in terms of what they need to do, but you want to just leave all these doors open for yourself. And the way you do that is with players who can kind of do a little bit of everything. The injuries are what kind of spook me a little bit.
- [18:20]
Justin Verrier
Unless you're the Pelicans who literally had Dyson Daniels in their own draft pick.
- [18:25]
Rob Mahoney
Had all those things.
- [18:25]
Justin Verrier
Now we're saying the foundation of this promising Atlanta Hawks future, um, anything of these other ones that came in over the past, what, 48 hours. We got A.J. green, Nikola Jovic, Keegan Murray. Any of those intrigue you?
- [18:38]
Rob Mahoney
Would you rather have Nicola Jovic at his number four years, $62 million or A.J. green at his number four years, $45 million?
- [18:48]
Justin Verrier
The problem is, I know what A.J. green is right now we do. I don't know what Nikola Jovic is.
- [18:53]
Rob Mahoney
Is that a good thing or a bad thing?
- [18:55]
Justin Verrier
It depends on the rest of your team to keep asking. Answering questions with the question. But like, A.J. green could be a starter playing off of stars. Nikola Jovic, is it as easy, especially if stars tend to be your creators? I don't know the Jovic contract. I will say just briefly, like, that's a steal. It's $16 million, which is nothing. Is it a steal if you're. If you plan on having him as a rotation player and you believe in that? Yes. Do I personally believe he's a lock, solid rotation guy on a title team? I don't know. But I'm also not saying no.
- [19:26]
Rob Mahoney
I'm not saying no. And I think, like, look for. For a team that is searching for something to believe in, why not pay him this money? Like that. From that perspective, very reasonable. I think I just get locked in with. With Jovic where it's like, what is. What is the positive outcome for him? Not like the best case, but like, what is a really good outcome? Is it better? Santi Aldama, like, that's. That's what you're aspiring to.
- [19:48]
Justin Verrier
Like, I threatened me with a good time.
- [19:50]
Rob Mahoney
I like Santa Adama a lot. But there's also like, kind of like a very subtle but meaningful difference between, let's say, how defenses respect Asante Aldama 3 versus the way they just kind of like, leave Jovic hanging in the corner and don't really care.
- [20:04]
Justin Verrier
I think I just have too much blind faith in the Heat infrastructure. And as we found over the course of, like, doing these pods, like, you're not as sold. You're not just willing to write this off as, like, they'll figure this out. Where I'm like, with Jovic, a guy who has talent. Yeah, I believe in them more than most organizations to tap into that.
- [20:22]
Rob Mahoney
I believe in Jovic to be a decent enough NBA player for a long time. He's just in that zone where it's like, he's a little difficult to peg on what kinds of players you want to put him with, what kinds of holes you want him to fill. He can kind of shoot, but only kind of. He can kind of make plays, but only kind of. He can kind of defend, but only kind of. It's like at a certain point, the defined strengths of someone like AJ Green while also limiting free you up to. To think about the other stuff. And it's like, I just don't know what to do. With Yovich. So that's where from a developmental standpoint, I don't even know what direction I would like channel him in.
- [20:57]
Justin Verrier
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- [21:53]
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- [22:04]
Justin Verrier
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- [22:51]
Justin Verrier
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- [22:53]
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- [23:04]
Rob Mahoney
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- [23:06]
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- [23:19]
Justin Verrier
These guys were not given extensions before the deadline as we're recording this. Jaden Ivy, Benedict Matheran, Jeremy Sohan, Usman Jang. Played really well in the preseason.
- [23:30]
Rob Mahoney
Oh, he skipped Johnny Davis, though.
- [23:32]
Justin Verrier
Did I?
- [23:33]
Rob Mahoney
The newest member of the Wisconsin Herd, I believe. Johnny Davis.
- [23:36]
Justin Verrier
God, is he in the G League?
- [23:37]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, I believe he's. He's. He's technically, you know, in the Milwaukee orbit, but not in Milwaukee.
- [23:43]
Justin Verrier
It's bad when you can't even get, like, a roster spot on the Bucks, who are just clinging to whatever live body they can have. Jalen Duran, Oshai Baji, Mark Williams, Tari Eason, Dalen Terry Malachi, Branham Walker Kessler, Peyton Watson, as you mentioned, with the Nuggets.
- [23:59]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [23:59]
Justin Verrier
Which of these guys stand out to you?
- [24:01]
Rob Mahoney
I mean, there's. I think some that are surprising. Like, the Detroit stuff doesn't shock me that much with. With Ivy and Durin.
- [24:08]
Justin Verrier
Why? He got hurt again.
- [24:09]
Rob Mahoney
Ivy got hurt again. And he's also the kind of player where it's like the best version of Jaylen or. Yeah. Of Jaden. Ivy is immensely valuable and also, like, kind of proven, but not entirely proven. And so you could understand from his perspective why he might want to wait and see. Or really, what he might be asking for is more than the Pistons, given his injuries, are willing to commit.
- [24:31]
Justin Verrier
Sure.
- [24:32]
Rob Mahoney
And during. It's like.
- [24:35]
Justin Verrier
He.
- [24:36]
Rob Mahoney
He's a trickier case because it's like there's really not a ton of benefit on waiting unless you're just that far apart on the number. And I guess that must be the case because, like, I don't know, there's just not a lot of upside for the Pistons to just wait out this process. They'll have a little bit more flexibility. They could technically do a little bit more with their cap sheet if they really wanted to. But I assume both those guys are both part of their future, and it's just a matter of figuring out what makes sense for everybody.
- [24:59]
Justin Verrier
Or how about this? Play hard on defense for an entire season.
- [25:02]
Rob Mahoney
For who?
- [25:02]
Justin Verrier
Jaylen Duran? Cause he had a strong second half where he seems like he turned it on, and a lot of that was just being there and, like, busting his ass defensively for half of a season and just not slowing down. Whereas I would like to see that over the course of the full, especially for a guy who's so streamlined as him, where he's going to go up and get it. He's going to be a vertical spacer for Cade Wade. Really good rebounder, really good offensive rebounder. But he is a pretty, like, traditional center in these modern times. Right. That means he's gonna have to be kind of the emotional centerpiece for what you're doing because he's gonna have to play and get a lot of his offense up in the air, and that's a lot of effort. And so I could see them basically being like, maybe you have to. You have to go and get your next contract, much like you got that offensive rebound. But the other part of this that we should talk about is restricted free agency. If you're an organization, worked pretty well for you this offseason because a lot of those contracts giddy. We saw Kaminga stretched so far because there weren't any offers coming. And I'm actually surprised. This is a long list of players, most of whom are, like, solid, but the two Pistons in particular are guys that, like, would be attractive to other teams.
- [26:08]
Rob Mahoney
Absolutely.
- [26:09]
Justin Verrier
If you're looking at what happened this past summer, you're saying, like, actually I'm going to use restrictive free agent and that might drive down the price of the these guys.
- [26:15]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, I think it's a pretty realistic option, especially when you consider someone like Jalen Duran, who I again, I can see him wanting to chase the offer sheet, and I'm just not entirely sure it's going to be there. Not because he's a bad player, but because people are warded off by the process. Like, it's. It sucks to court restricted free agents and to get stuck in it. You know, Meyers, your cap space for a minute. It's just like, thorny in a way that with all of the complications that are happening in free agency, most teams just, like, do not want to deal with.
- [26:40]
Justin Verrier
Yep.
- [26:41]
Rob Mahoney
The one that did surprise me a little bit was Tar Eason. I just thought something was going to get done there. And especially with Kevin Durant's number on his extension coming a little bit below expectation, I was like, oh, well, this must be an opening for something to happen with Tar Eason as well. This must be a means to keep this roster that already has so many guys financially together. But no deal. No deal for Tari Eason. Admittedly, a. A very injured player to this point, but also a completely scintillating player to this point.
- [27:10]
Justin Verrier
Yeah. And as we're recording this, we haven't got any reporting coming in about, like, why certain contracts, like, where they were on both sides, like why they couldn't come to terms, so maybe that will come out. But it, it kind of just underlines the fact that Houston is at a point, kind of at a crossroads with some of the young, intriguing guys where they need to make decisions on guys. And at the very least, I could see if you're Houston wanting Eason to be more in the rotation player that we don't have to count on sort of range of money rather than like one of our foundational players, like, because amen is that. And then you have all these other guys coming in behind him that they're going to have to ultimately pay. Let's see if Reed pops this year, we're going to have to pay him.
- [27:45]
Rob Mahoney
Yep.
- [27:46]
Justin Verrier
So Rubber is meeting the road and I will give Houston credit in this regard. It seems like they've been willing even before the summer to negotiate hard with some of these players and it's better for them to the point where they've gotten a little like incentives on some of these deals in order to go stack some of these contracts together. The KD one in particular, maybe they just see like we're as an organization going to draw a hard line. If you don't meet us, then we're going to make this difficult.
- [28:10]
Rob Mahoney
It is true. It's like on a case by case basis. Take Christian Brown, for example. It's like the difference between a 25 million annual deal and a 22 million annual deal for one player. Not a huge deal. But when it's happening with every contract where you're paying everybody a little extra on top or a little more than you had to, then all of a sudden you get yourself into some pretty challenging corners with the aprons and everything. So it's like compounding Jabari and Kevin Durant and potentially, you know, pressuring Tari Easton a little bit and all these other extensions and other deals that are coming down the line for Houston, it does have to stop somewhere. And it does make sense, cruel as it may be, that you would draw the line on some of these guys who just have not been able to stay on the floor yet. And so that's why between Ivy, between Tari Eason, like you can understand, like, it's the guys who did not get deals are either the guys who have been kind of chronically or consistently injured or the guys who have just been very difficult for their coaches to trust in. Like Benedict Matheran is another great example of just this is a huge prove it year for Ben Matheran, but you don't jump the gun by giving him the Big check ahead of time. Like, you need to see what him with his head screwed on right. With the right incentives actually does for the team in a much bigger role.
- [29:20]
Justin Verrier
Right. And even if he does pop this year, like, how does he then fit into a world where Tyrese Halburn comes in? Like, don't you want to downshift right to the lineup minus Turner that almost won you the title.
- [29:31]
Rob Mahoney
Yes. Mark Williams, you should also say also along the very, very injured lines. Hard to hand that guy like, a big old check. It's just like, it's just.
- [29:41]
Justin Verrier
Or trade for him, apparently, to join Nick Richards in the Charlotte center rotation that for whatever reason, Houston imported.
- [29:47]
Rob Mahoney
Well, it's been born again.
- [29:49]
Justin Verrier
Phoenix imported. Yeah, I know. I. I just. I'm at a loss for words.
- [29:53]
Rob Mahoney
But these are like, these are good players. Like, the best version of Mark Williams is really good, but you just have to prove that you can stay on the floor before you get the big money. Like, this is not a new problem. This is not a phenomenon. Like, Steph Curry had to prove that he could keep his angles healthy before he got really and truly paid. So none of these guys are quite Steph. But we're seeing guys have to make concessions or in this case, just not get their deals yet until they can prove it.
- [30:16]
Justin Verrier
Yeah. Another thing here is also cap holds in terms of, like, where you were drafted, if you're Detroit, and if you have any aspirations for using cap space. It's tougher to go into the summer with someone like Ivy, whose cap hold I believe is in the 30 millions, versus someone like Eason, who's more manageable at 17 because he was drafted lower. And so it's actually a little bit easier for someone like Eason to be like you wait. Because this doesn't hurt us in other areas as much as it would absolutely any other rookie extension nuggets and news you want to tap into.
- [30:46]
Rob Mahoney
We hit the most important stuff. I mean, there. This is a weird draft class in that clearly all the top guys got locked in. And then once you get past the top four or so, it's just a real crapshoot in terms of guys who have just not panned out, who have been inconsistent in all the ways we've described. Really, some of the biggest hits have been later first round and undrafted guys. Right. Like AJ Green coming in, Jalen Williams, both versions. But in this case, Jalen Williams, the big locked into a deal earlier this summer. It's like a lot of those guys who came on later actually have done better for themselves so it's. I don't know what that says about the reaches of the late lottery, but they have not quite panned out.
- [31:21]
Justin Verrier
Or you're Keegan Murray who just never comes on despite all the optimism for you.
- [31:25]
Rob Mahoney
Sometimes you get paid no matter what. Sometimes you just win.
- [31:28]
Justin Verrier
So he is making more than Jabari Smith, Shaden Sharpe, Jamani Kamara, everyone we've talked about on an annual basis, minus the max guys who are in a different category.
- [31:37]
Rob Mahoney
I mean, I think Keegan Murray has proven more than Shane Sharpe. Probably.
- [31:41]
Justin Verrier
Yes. But going from this point forward, who would you rather have?
- [31:45]
Rob Mahoney
I don't know.
- [31:46]
Justin Verrier
Independent of the money. Yeah, right.
- [31:47]
Rob Mahoney
I don't know who. Who Keegan Murray is. Like, I have watched a lot of Keegan Murray basketball. I have no idea who he is.
- [31:52]
Justin Verrier
If you put Chris Murray in his place tomorrow, would you notice a difference?
- [31:56]
Rob Mahoney
I do think, unfortunately, I would notice a difference. But I see you trying to blazer it up again.
- [32:00]
Justin Verrier
All right, let's flip now to kind of a mulligan on our power ranking section.
- [32:06]
Rob Mahoney
So did we need those tbd.
- [32:09]
Justin Verrier
We should talk through it because we. We record those a little bit in advance. I'm actually curious what people think about that. Did they like that we had those all structured and nicely produced on video or by the third one, or you're like, oh, this is. You guys did this earlier.
- [32:22]
Rob Mahoney
You know, personally, I enjoyed it.
- [32:24]
Justin Verrier
I. I loved it.
- [32:25]
Rob Mahoney
And I happen to know people loved our deep and introspective questions into the souls of. Of you. And was in particular, I think that.
- [32:31]
Justin Verrier
Was a huge hit. We should maybe reprise that at some point.
- [32:34]
Rob Mahoney
I think every podcast.
- [32:35]
Justin Verrier
Yeah. But, you know, things happen over the course of preseason.
- [32:39]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [32:40]
Justin Verrier
You know, not only results, but also contracts were signed and also injuries occurred. A lot of injuries, I feel like occurred over this preseason. Just like even like the two weeks or the two to four weeks. Getting a lot of those before we hit opening night in earnest. How was your preseason? Just. Just viewing diet. Did you get any Melave Leon's tape in there?
- [33:01]
Rob Mahoney
Not enough, unfortunately. A little sporadic. I try to pick my spots. Well, look, we're. It's a long season. We're about to embark on the marathon. I've also been literally fighting pneumonia, so there's only so much I can take. But then you just get Keyshawn George highlights trickling in. I'm like, yes, absolutely. Give me everything you got.
- [33:21]
Justin Verrier
Well, what's funny is I ran into our mutual friend who works for the Oklahoma City Thunder, and we bumped each other at A game. And he was like, rob accosted me in the bathroom because he just wanted me to talk about Malevolent. He shook me and he's like, tell me what's going on with this guy.
- [33:37]
Rob Mahoney
The problem is you could be describing like five different Thunder employees, but I think I know the one you're talking about.
- [33:43]
Justin Verrier
But he made the roster, I think.
- [33:45]
Rob Mahoney
Did he, did he actually make it?
- [33:46]
Justin Verrier
I'm going to double check that as.
- [33:48]
Rob Mahoney
Let's do some real time fact check. I'm, I'm admittedly behind on the male f Owns beat, so we got to, we got to get to the bottom of it.
- [33:54]
Justin Verrier
There's real Brooks Barnheiser enthusiasm.
- [33:58]
Rob Mahoney
Unfortunately, he was cut two days ago.
- [33:59]
Justin Verrier
Come on.
- [34:01]
Rob Mahoney
But I mean, that's just, Come on. It's, well, look, it's really to keep him in the family. Right? He's on the exhibit 10, so he can go to the blue. It's all part of the plan. Is he quietly getting into, like Tumani Kamara age territory? Yes, but look, when he hits, he's really going to hit.
- [34:17]
Justin Verrier
Well, I would say the one team that I'm starting to reconsider since we've done the power rankings might be Houston a little bit. We caught the Fred Van Vliet injury in real time, but then we got the KD extension and also some experimentation with that point guard spot before they even considered doing something more dramatic in the trade market. We got the tall ball lineup. Yeah.
- [34:39]
Rob Mahoney
So what you're saying is you want to move them up now to number one?
- [34:42]
Justin Verrier
Well, I, I, I saw a lot of graphics, not only just showing all their listed heights, we're talking of men. Katie, Katie, back at, at the two, which, you know, P.J.
- [34:51]
Rob Mahoney
Karlissenbo is smiling somewhere shining down on us.
- [34:55]
Justin Verrier
Jabari Smith, Shangoon, and then Stephen Adams. Not only did we get the listed heights of those guys, but also in comparison to the one the Denver Nuggets used, where it was, it was like Bol bowl and Jokic in the bubble. And so, so that's one thing. And then we saw Reed shepherd kind of unleashed. It was in the preseason finale. But like, God damn, when they let that guy cook, he fucking just cook something up.
- [35:16]
Rob Mahoney
This is the thing. Like, you just gotta give him a little bit of runaway. I'm not saying Reed shepherd is a perfect basketball player, but he does a lot of the things that all of a sudden they really, really need. The spacing, even just some, like the handling, like get the ball up, get us into basic stuff. I think Reed shepherd can probably handle that.
- [35:32]
Justin Verrier
Yeah. I think what is in the best interest for the Rockets, maybe not necessarily Kevin Durant, is that they experiment a little bit more than they were expecting. I think they were probably going to do a good degree of it because they had such depth that they couldn't pace out Fred when he was healthy or Kevin Durant. Those guys can only be counted on for 60 games or so, as most players of their age typically are. And then you could try some things in the midst of that now, they might just have to lean a little bit more heavily in a certain direction. And I think it would be in their best interest long term to force a doka to have to play Reed Shepherd. Not only.
- [36:08]
Rob Mahoney
How do you do that?
- [36:10]
Justin Verrier
Well, I mean, he would just have to sacrifice some of his precious defensive culture and just let him be Reed.
- [36:15]
Rob Mahoney
But, like, how do we force him? Like, what do we need a black? Like, what do we do?
- [36:18]
Justin Verrier
Just look at him sternly, like, you have to play. No, I mean, I think it would be in their best interest, like, for sure, to look at the bigger canvas rather than the result in front of. Which is the difference typically between a front office and a coach. Yeah.
- [36:30]
Rob Mahoney
Convincing coach to not rely on veterans and instead lean on the young but flawed player. A historically doomed enterprise, like, just a.
- [36:38]
Justin Verrier
Really hard thing to pull off 100%. But he also got an extension.
- [36:42]
Rob Mahoney
He.
- [36:43]
Justin Verrier
He also got an extension partly as a result of the Knicks trying to hire every single coach in the NBA, but also deservedly so. And he's clearly on the books for long term, so maybe he has more reason to think long.
- [36:56]
Rob Mahoney
Yes.
- [36:56]
Justin Verrier
So I. I just think it would be for them not to be as good this regular season. But play, read more. Play through some of his mistakes. Allow him the rope to do so. Because trading him, you're never going to get full value of what he could potentially be. And so why not just explore a little bit more?
- [37:13]
Rob Mahoney
The thing, the weird thing about the Rockets is in their way, they are a very experimental team. Every waking minute with Amin Thompson on the court is an experiment. Right. Like we are. We are crossing into new territory with everything they do, the double big lineup, like, just the size and the way that they orient that length and size on the court, a lot of it's like, very inventive. It's not the most inventive offense in the world, like, structurally speaking. And I think that's probably one of IME's, like, the things you can hold against him. Did a really good job coaching that team. Last year. But there's a lot to figure out in terms of just like how the basic functioning of the offense works. And that's where playing Reed shepherd should not feel like an experiment. It should feel like something that's like pretty foundational to playing normal basketball. I think it, like, in a way they kind of need to be a little more normal. Like with Fred, that would have kind of resolved itself, but Van Vliets hurt. So, like, you're gonna need to find alternatives to prevent Kevin Durant from having to handle the ball so much, to prevent Alper and Shangun from being like the only hub creator on the floor. Like, you're gonna need other ways to just get into stuff. One of the ways is having guards who can handle the ball reach up and kind of do that. Also just having shooters who teams really, really respect. And we're gonna see with this jumbo lineup, like how much Katie at the 2, Jabari at the 3 is like enough spacing to carry an entire 5 man group at once. Maybe. I, I'm kind of thrilled about it regardless. But there's just like so many little things that the Rockets can do to maybe become a little bit more. More of a normal team sometimes.
- [38:40]
Justin Verrier
I mean, even Amen as your true de facto point guard is experimentation, because it's not the role he was in last year.
- [38:47]
Rob Mahoney
What role was he in last year?
- [38:48]
Justin Verrier
Who the fuck knows? Whatever role he wants to be in, that's what he gets. But now, like forcing more offense to him could explore what he could do offensively in a way that could. Honestly, he might be in line for most improving players just because of the opportunities he's going to get as a result of this. But you're right, there's still a lot of exploration on this team. Jabari Smith, I think, showed some versatility, especially guarding into like, more of the wings sort of category in the playoffs. But like, who knows with him? Typically he's taking one step forward, two steps back. Shen Goon might take another step. If we look at your basket, he's like a maniac.
- [39:21]
Rob Mahoney
A God. Yeah, a golden God.
- [39:23]
Justin Verrier
Like, he keeps developing and we lose track of the fact because he's so much more established, I think, than some of the younger guys he's. He was brought up with. Like, he's still super young. He was just extended last year around the same time.
- [39:34]
Rob Mahoney
But I don't know what is the mulligan here. I'm hearing that the Rockets are still really good. I'm hearing that they have experimental ways to continue to get better. And there's so much young talent, like even just the combination of Jabari Smith Jr. On a Kevin Durant team or I guess vice versa in this case. That combination is really exciting to me. Not just the way they play together, but Kevin Durant, someone who has a lot to teach Jabari about how to use his length, how to like the version of Kevin Durant we saw play Golden State in the playoffs as a member of the Thunder, for example, and the switching and the mobility and the way he was able to smother people. Like, you can see Jabari starting to have like the flicker of some of that stuff and all of a sudden you're not going to turn Jabari Smith Jr. Into Kevin Durant offensively. But in terms of all the supplementary stuff that KD quietly does and has done at a super elite level, that stuff he can pass along, that's stuff that he could help Jabari be the best version of that player that he can be.
- [40:27]
Justin Verrier
I'm very big on Jabari. I also think he's like kind of going to be a connector to whatever version of the team it wants to be, depending on who's her, who's available. Because here he is starting at de facto three, but he can also be your stretch four if he's hitting shots with consistency. For some of your smaller in air quotes lineups where he's the four and Shangun's at the five. Shen, God damn, he keeps doing stuff, but you're right, I think we had them at three. I just don't know who we would put over them, who would vault over them. Because I believe we have the Knicks at 4 and then the Cavs at 5. I think the team that's getting a lot of momentum as we go through the preseason are the Golden State Warriors.
- [41:05]
Rob Mahoney
They're really good.
- [41:06]
Justin Verrier
Are they? Yeah, in the regular season, I mean, I think they're.
- [41:10]
Rob Mahoney
They're built, if healthy to be really good in the playoffs too.
- [41:13]
Justin Verrier
Yeah, I'm just a little more worried about regular season wins. Well, yeah, and that's probably in terms of feedback that was the one most passionately thrust upon us based on the power rankings was just, you know, you guys didn't factor in Kaminga's new contract or the new guys they signed. Yeah, just newsflash, we did. We literally talked about all that stuff about to happen and then it happened pretty much as we expected, as everyone did. I think the other part of this is that some of the statistical models chimed in and they had them very high. I Believe the one at ESPN had them as the number two team in the Western Conference, right behind the Oklahoma City Thunder. And now there's some noise in that because they're taking what happened last season when Jimmy was there and extrapolating over the course of the full season. Obviously injuries will set in. I don't think they'll have as much momentum in order to or they won't be playing for anything in the same way that they had to stack wins in in order to make the play in in the first place. But this is going to be a good team. I'm more excited for them as a playoff team than a regular season team. That's exactly what I said on our power rankings.
- [42:20]
Rob Mahoney
I mean, I still love watching them in the regular season. I still think as much as those guys can be healthy and available, they will be good. Like the part of them that made them a juggernaut after the Butler trade, which you're right, they leaned super hard because they had to win, but those foundational things are still there and they're just kind of accented by Al Horford and Anthony Melton and the guys that they've brought in. Like they're going to be really good. I just don't really see a way around that. I don't see them as world beaters. I don't see them as necessarily the most realistic threat to teams like the Thunder and the Nuggets and even the Rockets. Like they're a clear rung or two below for me. And that's okay.
- [42:54]
Justin Verrier
Very much in the mix, I would say, in terms of being swayed from the preseason. If anything, the injuries has started to rock me a little bit, including with like Jalen Suggs, who still unfortunately isn't on the court. He's still pacing his way back. I think he's in limited contact as the time we're recording this even dear. And Fox is scrimmaging, so he's a little bit farther ahead, but he still hasn't played. And that's concerning, especially as Dylan Harper looks even better any minute he gets next to Wemby and then Wemby himself just grows a couple inches and a couple more pounds every day, seemingly.
- [43:25]
Rob Mahoney
The Dylan Harper stuff, I mean, I don't know what I expected. I probably should have expected this. But watching him with the ball is really captivating. I don't. I We talked on the preseason pods about how all this is going to fit. Like right with Fox and Castle and Harper now. Like, how do you balance the ball handling responsibilities between those Guys, I'm hoping there's like a democratic way where it just kind of settles out where all of a sudden they just kind of find their spots. And some of that's going to depend on some of those guys being better perimeter shooters for sure. But you cannot keep the ball out of Dylan Harper's hands. Like whatever role he plays, whoever he is playing with, he needs to have opportunities to just flex. Cuz he's, he's really got something special.
- [44:08]
Justin Verrier
It's a real harsh truism about life, especially in a competitive environment where it's like when you're not there, like the world kind of keeps going. Right. And it seems like that might be the case with what's happening with Fox.
- [44:20]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [44:20]
Justin Verrier
Which is so disappointing because like when they traded for him just seemed like such a joyous occasion. Like it seemed like finally he would be applied in a, in a winning setting next to this like world beating talent in Wemby. And now it just. If he doesn't come in soon, I do wonder if Harper starts to get momentum under him.
- [44:37]
Rob Mahoney
And like I'm not ready to bail that fast.
- [44:40]
Justin Verrier
I just don't know how you. Maybe this first year will be easy to manage the both of them because Harper is still learning.
- [44:45]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [44:46]
Justin Verrier
But if Harper shows anything this year, I think year two of this will be messy.
- [44:51]
Rob Mahoney
It could get a little dice here. And look, a lot of it's going to depend on those guys and how much starting matters to them or being a point quote unquote point guard matters to them. If they're willing to play together in combinations and work off of each other. Those three guys, I think there's still a lot you can do. You have a lot of Runway here. And really I think the spurs benefit from the fact that they are going to be good and that's going to make a lot of people pretty happy around there. But they aren't weighed down by the fact that they need to be great yet. Like they just need to be competitive enough and God knows they're going to be.
- [45:19]
Justin Verrier
I think it's going to put a lot of stress on the guys who don't have the shooting in order to play more off the ball in that regard. Fox, we'll see. But I think Castle is probably the one who's probably feeling the pressure a little bit. I mean maybe not this year, but I would think if they do make another trade, which somehow they're still able to do, like he might be the guy to get it done just because like he isn't Shooting that well. He didn't shoot that well as a rookie. We'll see if he can bounce back this year. But like if he doesn't have the ball in his hands, like where does he fit? Especially when Wemby looks like he can play point guard if he wanted to.
- [45:50]
Rob Mahoney
I would believe anything at this point. I think what makes it hard for me in terms of seeing the big picture is in their own ways I really believe in de' Aaron Fox and Stefan Castle and Dylan Harper. Like they all individually make sense to me. And I think there is. There's a universe in which Castle, by the nature of being the least defined of those three players, does end up in like a weird auxiliary utility off the bench or whatever kind of role. And it could still really suit him. Like he's just. He has the kind of mentality that I'm not really worried about him finding a place. I just don't know what the place is yet.
- [46:25]
Justin Verrier
Yep. Any of these other sort of injuries that have piled up or any sort of just like news and notes that have happened. I mean the Grizzlies lose a point guard every day seemingly.
- [46:34]
Rob Mahoney
Unfortunately we gotta save Scotty Pippen Jr. Somehow. We got like rap him and Bubble all these guys. I. The Grizzlies actively terrify me with who is even available to play on a game to game basis. Thank goodness Jaren Jackson is back. Hopefully John Morant is back. I don't know what to make of it. Maybe that's a mulligan for us. Like we had the Grizzlies ranked pretty favorably because they do usually just win a ton of games as long as John Ranch is even reasonably available. Maybe this is a year that doesn't turn out to be the case. Maybe this team is just too weird and too lopsided and doesn't quite work. I would, I would believe that outcome if you told me that's what happens at the end of the season today.
- [47:12]
Justin Verrier
Yeah, Jaren Jackson at the very least showed up in the preseason finale. So that's like some good news and probably the more meaningful news. Um, also like Jack Lando like playing a couple games at center.
- [47:22]
Rob Mahoney
Totally fine shout out.
- [47:23]
Justin Verrier
He. He just plugged the hole for DeAndre in the playoff game and it was better than than Ayton. So very low bar. But at the very least that's like a. You can funnel minutes too. Russell Westbrook signing with the Kings.
- [47:33]
Rob Mahoney
Sure did.
- [47:35]
Justin Verrier
I'm still. I guess I can't even say I'm perplexed. It just seems like what The Kings do now. They just sign players they're familiar with.
- [47:42]
Rob Mahoney
I. I'm just really upset about the state of that team.
- [47:46]
Justin Verrier
Also the 18th season for Russell Westbrook, as I know. Cause that's his jersey number. Yes, we're all sympatico in that way.
- [47:51]
Rob Mahoney
You know what? I didn't even think about that. I do remember being in The Russell Westbrook vs. Eric Mayor trenches of like, who should play point guard for the Thunder. So there's, there's like a formative alignment between the way Russ has lived his life and the way that we have lived ours.
- [48:04]
Justin Verrier
What side were you on there, Russ? You sure?
- [48:06]
Rob Mahoney
Yes. Look, you can dig up blog posts. Way back in the day, there was a lot of really fishy on off stuff where Eric Maynard was playing a lot with Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook was playing a lot with, bless him, Jeff Green. That was kind of cooking the books. And I think people overreact, to say the least.
- [48:22]
Justin Verrier
God. Durant is now teaming up with Stephen Adams and Jeff Green in Houston.
- [48:28]
Rob Mahoney
Yep.
- [48:28]
Justin Verrier
Like, that OKC team was like the nexus of the universe for like the next decade of NBA basketball.
- [48:33]
Rob Mahoney
And now there's a new Thunder team that's the nexus of the universe for who knows how long.
- [48:37]
Justin Verrier
That's true. Cooper Flag playing point guard?
- [48:40]
Rob Mahoney
Sure, why not? Who literally. Who else is going to do it?
- [48:43]
Justin Verrier
Yeah. And then Joel Embiid played in a preseason game.
- [48:46]
Rob Mahoney
He sure did.
- [48:48]
Justin Verrier
He looked like an NBA player playing basketball. So that's, that's a start.
- [48:53]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, I'm, I'm just like constantly on Joel movement watch. Like, how is he shuffling? How is he jumping?
- [48:58]
Justin Verrier
What would you say he was? How was. How would you say?
- [49:00]
Rob Mahoney
He's moving about as well as I've been lately, which is mildly concerning. But I, I hope for better for him. I hope he's back in MVP form. The best version of Joel is obviously incredible. It's just like guys like him, once they get to this stage, and we've seen this with Kawhi too, for example, it's like part of their appeal is that they were such two way forces and then when they get injured, they're forced to pick and choose, whether conditioning or otherwise. They're just trying to preserve their bodies of like when to exert themselves defensively. And if Joel is a guy who's just kind of like hanging out defensively, that's a very different player. And I'm not saying he would be wrong to make those decisions or to pick his spots. Just might be the reality of who he is at this point, but I hope he can get back to two way Joel Embiid again. I hope that's a real thing that could exist in the world.
- [49:45]
Justin Verrier
Is the current version a top 100 player?
- [49:48]
Rob Mahoney
He was not in our first top 100 for just straight up. Like, he was redlined out because we were not ranking anybody who was too injured to, as we assume, start the season. Yes.
- [50:00]
Justin Verrier
Joel hadn't played in what, almost not like eight months.
- [50:04]
Rob Mahoney
We had the radical idea that you should have to play in the NBA to be ranked in the top 100. Yes.
- [50:09]
Justin Verrier
This year, especially with the injuries to some of the top stars, we drew a hard line and said guys like Tyrese Halliburton, Jayson Tatum, who were expected as we were voting to not be available for this regular season. We'll see about Tatum. Yeah, we won't rank them until they actually play basketball. And that's why Joel wasn't there. Fortunately, he took a shot at us, I think.
- [50:29]
Rob Mahoney
So what was the shot? I didn't even see this.
- [50:31]
Justin Verrier
I think he was talking about something else. And he's like, your colleagues don't think I'm a top 100 player. Which I guess is technically true. We don't think you are, but that's specifically because you weren't playing.
- [50:41]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [50:42]
Justin Verrier
If we knew that he steps on.
- [50:43]
Rob Mahoney
The court, he's a top 100 player again.
- [50:45]
Justin Verrier
And I'll also say this, like, just because you played in a preseason game doesn't mean you're going to show up on opening night, too, because we've seen that trick before, too.
- [50:51]
Rob Mahoney
Interesting.
- [50:52]
Justin Verrier
So when Joel plays, we will rank you, but for now, he's not a top 100 player.
- [50:58]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah. I mean, look, injured players are the worst part of the top 100, because if they have already played and then they get hurt, they just start drifting down the rankings slowly because other guys move up, other things happen. Like, it's. You become to start to think of them in a different way and that, like, the alternative is they just like, if Joel embiid was at 12 and got locked in at 12 and didn't move the entire time, he got hurt. He's almost, like, protected in the rankings because he's not playing. Like, there's no good answers. And so we did a thing that I think is pretty reasonable.
- [51:26]
Justin Verrier
Yes. It's a very difficult thing to manage. Rob, in particular, finds himself flummoxed a lot over it. Genuinely, it is tough, though, because you don't want to do a disservice to a player Like Joel, who wanted goddamn MVP in this league, but if he's not playing or playing well, you got to go down. Yes.
- [51:42]
Rob Mahoney
And then you end up with situations like Joel and Christian Brown are ranked right next to each other. And so to avoid that, we did not rank it.
- [51:50]
Justin Verrier
That's right. Well, since we're talking about MVPs, we should do some award picking. Yeah, I did mine on the site, and so you can check those out@theringer.com, we did a whole staff group post. Rob was unfortunately on his deathbed.
- [52:02]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah. Wasn't going great.
- [52:06]
Justin Verrier
So we'll go through them. I'll say this about just awards picks in general. I tend to not have many passionate opinions because these are projections about largely good players who might be slightly better than other very good players. Um, but having said that, for mvp, I have Luka Doncic.
- [52:23]
Rob Mahoney
I also do.
- [52:24]
Justin Verrier
Oh, okay.
- [52:25]
Rob Mahoney
And we. We talked about this some on the preseason power rankings pod, but I think it's going to be a combination of. Look, he. He looks incredible. He's in very good shape. Clearly, he's highly motivated. I think the Laker narrative machine is going to be so potent that it's going to be hard for other. Even other. Like, I think Jokic will have an MVP season. I think Shai and Giannis will have MVP seasons. We have no reason to expect otherwise. I just think that the Lucas that's gonna be so loud, it finally breaks through. Yes.
- [52:53]
Justin Verrier
I think largely narrative plays a factor in this, if not the biggest factor. And if you're looking at the story of Luca, not only is it the revenge season, not only did he get in shape and broadcast that to anyone who was paying attention on the Internet over the past three months, he also is setting this up. So LeBron's not going to be around, so he's going to be the primary source for driving results.
- [53:15]
Rob Mahoney
Wait, he's setting that up?
- [53:17]
Justin Verrier
He. Maybe not he setting that up, but.
- [53:19]
Rob Mahoney
He gave LeBron sciatica.
- [53:20]
Justin Verrier
Maybe. Maybe little Nancy Kerrigan.
- [53:23]
Rob Mahoney
Oh, my God. I hadn't even considered it, but something nefarious could be in play.
- [53:27]
Justin Verrier
LeBron is not there to muddle the narrative that it's anyone other than Luca who is driving the results. But I should say, like, I do wonder how high the results can be for a Lakers team that's going to have a lot of competition in the West. I would assume, like, if OKC and Denver and Houston, some of the other teams we're talking about, if they're all at the top of the West, Then it becomes a little harder for Luca. But let's say the Lakers get into, I want to say top three, top five in the NBA perhaps, then it becomes in play. Because I was thinking to myself, like, oh man, maybe if he gets like a 34 point triple double, he could be in the mix there. And then I looked at the numbers and literally did that two years ago.
- [54:04]
Rob Mahoney
The numbers are going to be stupid. They're always stupid. The variables to me are, yes, like, the Lakers obviously need to hit a certain threshold to even really for him to qualify. To say nothing of the fact that he needs to stay healthy enough to literally qualify. But if, depending on how the Thunder season turns out, that's the kind of one I'm watching. Jokic, I like. Look, I was a Yokage voter last season. I thought he was the best player in basketball. I think there's a very good chance he will be again basically until proven otherwise. The Shea stuff though is very compelling. And I think there's a non zero chance that the Thunder have an even better record next season. Right. Like that they push even harder that they are even better. And if the Thunder are 70 win team, it's going to be very hard pressed to not have the MVP on that team with Shay being as good as he historically has been.
- [54:48]
Justin Verrier
You would think with Denver building out their bench, with the Thunder having benches upon benches that they would pace those guys out a little bit more. We'll see. But you're right, like, I think historic results will trump most of Luka's cases. And the Thunder could win 70 plus games this year easily. Or the Nuggets could set a franchise record in wins just because they finally have guys to spell their stars could lead to more regular season wins. So I think it's going to be a difficult path for Luca, but you know, the way things are shaking, shaping out, they finally also have like defensive components that they can usher in while LeBron's away. That might just lead to more regular season wins.
- [55:25]
Rob Mahoney
Theoretically.
- [55:26]
Justin Verrier
I just think like they won't be a better team when LeBron is out, but they could be better suited to trudge through the regular season.
- [55:32]
Rob Mahoney
Yes, is what I would say could be.
- [55:34]
Justin Verrier
All right, so we both have Luka, mvp, most improve. What do you got?
- [55:38]
Rob Mahoney
I think modest Bouz Ellis might win.
- [55:40]
Justin Verrier
Oh my God, I think he might win.
- [55:42]
Rob Mahoney
Not only do I think he might be good enough to win, but like, I just think he might really surprise some people. Yeah, again, if, if you, if you've been locked in, in boozella's world. I don't think he's going to surprise you. Like, he's a funky mover, an interesting driver, a good connector. Like he had all of these elements to his game. I just kind of think it's going to pop. I don't think the Bulls are going to be all that. Anything other than what they've been, which is just kind of like around in the. In the mix in the worst possible way. But I think Bouz Ellis is going to be the best part of it and I think he will actively surprise a lot of people.
- [56:15]
Justin Verrier
I don't know what I was expecting, but I was not expecting.
- [56:19]
Rob Mahoney
What's wrong with Modest Bouzelis?
- [56:20]
Justin Verrier
Well, I love Bozelas. I think he is in line to play very well. He came on really strong last year. I think it's odd that people are excited about his second half, but Josh Giddy's second half apparently didn't happen. Is discredited immediately.
- [56:31]
Rob Mahoney
It happened. I just don't know what it meant.
- [56:33]
Justin Verrier
Okay.
- [56:34]
Rob Mahoney
Actually, I do know what it meant. Irrelevant basketball for the most part, but bezealous. Well, yeah. He's the young upstart within the system that is fundamentally broken. He is not to blame for the Bulls problems.
- [56:46]
Justin Verrier
Okay. I think it would be rare, if not unprecedented for a second year player to get the award. Yeah. And he was also drafted in the lottery. I think guys get dinged for that just because you're expected to be very good if you're drafted in that position. He wasn't a high lottery pick, so there's that. Typically this award goes for an already good player who takes a meaningful scoring leap and is like all star fringe all star caliber. We've seen Kevin Love in recent years. Lauri Markkanen, sure, he was more deserved because the leap from the Cavs of the Utah was pretty pronounced.
- [57:20]
Rob Mahoney
But also Dyson Daniels, like you get guys who are not necessarily in that quite all star or even fringe all star category. Just like going from a situation that doesn't quite work to one that all of a sudden does or isn't playing enough minutes and then all of a sudden is. Or sometimes you're just a young guy who kind of has it together and then all of a sudden very much has it together.
- [57:37]
Justin Verrier
Right. Tyrese Maxey, I think is the shining example of this where he was already a very good player and then he just scored a little bit more and it's just like, all right, you're the guy. And for that reason I picked any advia. Also, I'M a fucking homer.
- [57:48]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, you would.
- [57:49]
Justin Verrier
But I also think he has one of the best cases because he came on at the end of last season. I think there's a little bullsy in effect there where it's like, oh, second half basketball is this very real. And so it's almost like the public, like the, the broader public probably didn't catch on to the fact that he was kind of cooking their best player at this point. I wonder, especially at the way, as we mentioned, the Blazers offense is set up. He, in addition to Shaden, could be showcased in a, in a large way. And if they're winning more than people expected, if they're in the playing race all of a sudden in two months, it's like, Denny's the guy.
- [58:23]
Rob Mahoney
I would like to propose to you a catch 22.
- [58:26]
Justin Verrier
Okay.
- [58:26]
Rob Mahoney
Denny Abdi. If he's going to win most improved player or any award or just like be like nationally recognized, we'll rely on the Portland hipsters like yourself.
- [58:35]
Justin Verrier
That's right.
- [58:36]
Rob Mahoney
To get out the vote. Right. To raise awareness. Are those same Portland hipsters, yourself included, capable of saying that Denny Avdia wasn't already great, that actually, yeah, his numbers are better, but wasn't he already this guy last season, as you basically just did?
- [58:52]
Justin Verrier
Well, the hipster take in and of itself is that you didn't realize how great he was and now look at how great he is.
- [58:58]
Rob Mahoney
Sounds like knowledge. Sounds like he's not that improved. He's just already good and will continue to be good.
- [59:03]
Justin Verrier
Give him his credit, God damn it.
- [59:05]
Rob Mahoney
I just don't think that's how the award voting works.
- [59:07]
Justin Verrier
I actually, I disagree. I think that is exactly how the way voting works. But it shouldn't. I think Amend Thompson also has a big case for this this year because if he adds more offensively to one of the best defensive players I've seen in my lifetime, maybe like, then he is a shoe in a name I've.
- [59:24]
Rob Mahoney
Seen going around that I'm very curious to see if he ends up in this race or not. Is Andrew Nemhard gonna have so much more on ball opportunity potentially this season? I assume we'll play a lot more point than he's used to. Well, just like the numbers will rise as a result of that, terms of assists, in terms of just like having more scoring opportunities, all that stuff will be there. I just wonder if Andrew Nemhardt is a guy whose offense scales that much in that way where you'll just see the year over year and be like, oh my God, Andrew Nemhardt, like he. His opportunity is shifting. Everything in Indiana is changing. Without Tyrese Halliburton.
- [59:58]
Justin Verrier
I don't know.
- [59:59]
Rob Mahoney
I don't know if he's going to be there or not. But I, I can, I can understand the argument. I can see it. I just want to see it play out.
- [60:06]
Justin Verrier
I kind of don't like that expectation of him as well. Like I think if he just adds a little bit more offensively, if he actually hits shots in the regular season as opposed to only being a playoff specific shooter.
- [60:15]
Rob Mahoney
If you're going to pick one, he picked the right one.
- [60:17]
Justin Verrier
Right. That's true. But like if he, if he finds a balance between those two players, like that in of itself is an extremely helpful, awesome player to have. Especially when Tyrese comes back. I almost don't want the pressure on him to perform at like a near all star rate.
- [60:30]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [60:30]
Justin Verrier
I will say though, it is easier to get shine in the Eastern Conference like all of a sudden. If he has a good first three months, he's an all star consideration because the east is just so depleted with guys in general.
- [60:40]
Rob Mahoney
It's true.
- [60:41]
Justin Verrier
So I could see it. Defensive player of the year.
- [60:43]
Rob Mahoney
Is it anybody other than Wimby?
- [60:45]
Justin Verrier
No. But I propose that we find a smaller trophy. Just like a miniature version of the existing trophy or just a small trophy with a different player, perhaps like a guard like Gary Payton or someone. And we give that to the second place winner for the next decade because Wemby's going to keep piling.
- [61:02]
Rob Mahoney
Just lock it in.
- [61:03]
Justin Verrier
Yeah.
- [61:03]
Rob Mahoney
I thought you were saying to give him a smaller one for the even more comical photo of his giant hands cradling the now miniatures trophy.
- [61:10]
Justin Verrier
Perhaps we could do both.
- [61:11]
Rob Mahoney
I do think it might turn into that kind of award. Like it may turn into the kind of thing where like Evan Mobley feels very thankful that he got the one in under the wire even though he may go down as like one of the best defensive players of his era. But he's not this. He's not the potentially like world changing, sport changing defender, the victor Webman Yama is. It's a tough break potentially to be alive and playing in the same era that this guy is.
- [61:34]
Justin Verrier
So enjoy your mini trophy. Amen Thompson. I guess so it'll be cheaper to ship it to you as a result. Six man. A stupid fucking award that I hate that they give out. This is such a dumb ass award. Yeah.
- [61:48]
Rob Mahoney
Why are you, why are you against just awarding excellence in this case off the bench?
- [61:52]
Justin Verrier
Because you're doing it against lesser Competition. It goes to someone who scores at a high rate against worse players.
- [62:00]
Rob Mahoney
Often true.
- [62:01]
Justin Verrier
And often because you have some flaw in your game that you can't be in the first unit, that you score at a certain level, but not at the highest levels of the league.
- [62:09]
Rob Mahoney
Yes. And in that spirit, every time I look at this award and I had this same problem, like going through my actual bout last season where this was not like the trendy pick, in part because guys like Peyton Pritchard had such good seasons. But it's like, why is it not Nas Reed? Like, why is Nas Reed, who's a really good player coming off the bench, admittedly flawed in exactly the way you're alluding to in ways that may prevent him from being like a full time defensive anchor, for example. But he's just really good and really important in all the most important matchups and produces. Like, why is he not just the sixth man every year?
- [62:41]
Justin Verrier
Yeah, we should probably just give it to him every year. Like Wemby, maybe not. More Small trophies is the answer to everything.
- [62:46]
Rob Mahoney
It's not in Penn in quite the same way as Wemby, but it's like every time I look at six man credentials at the end of the season, or in this case six man like candidates and who could even be in play, I just have a hard time talking myself out of Nas Reed.
- [62:58]
Justin Verrier
I think for the same reasons that Andre Iguodala tended to be the hipster pick for six man back in the day.
- [63:04]
Rob Mahoney
Because he was the best player coming off the bench.
- [63:06]
Justin Verrier
Exactly. But he wasn't a high scorer and thus didn't get the shine. It typically went to the Jamal crossover.
- [63:10]
Rob Mahoney
It was fucked up then. I think we should rectify it now.
- [63:12]
Justin Verrier
We waged those wars together, my friend. We certainly did a battle together.
- [63:16]
Rob Mahoney
We were in those trenches.
- [63:17]
Justin Verrier
Uh, unfortunately, because of precedent, I went with Anthony Simons, who is going to put up a ton of points and he's going to have the green light. Like not only because he plays for the Celtics in the green, but like he's going to put up probably 10 threes a game.
- [63:29]
Rob Mahoney
Yes.
- [63:30]
Justin Verrier
And this is a guy, if you haven't checked him out in Portland, I don't blame you because they've been playing some pretty poor basketball over the past two to three years. He can fill it up in an instant like few players I've ever seen. It's very Dame Lillard esque and that's the easy comp. But it's the right one because they just turn it on and he cannot Miss. And I think he's going to do that a lot in the spotlight of Boston. He's going to be on national TV doing that. I think he's going to be a prime candidate for this one is like.
- [63:56]
Rob Mahoney
Not surrounded by a ton of talent, but a system and guys who know how to play it. At least enough of them carrying over from the previous Celtics team. That'll put him in pretty good spots. Like you put Simons out there with Derek White and all of a sudden it's like, oh, he's just getting these easy feed connective passes that are going to lead to some of those shots. For a guy who has at points in his career been just one of the best shooters in the league and on top of that has like a lot he can do on ball. Like, it's not just a catch and shoot guy really can play the pick and roll, can create for himself. Like he is the prototype of a sixth man. So I get the vote. But also, why is it not Nasreed.
- [64:30]
Justin Verrier
Can'T play a lick of defense? He's actually the anti Nasrid or anti Agudala. But also like, how do we know these guys will stay six man? We don't. Over the course of the season. Because a lot of the best candidates tend to get put in the starting lineup because of injuries. Because they're the natural candidate to be in the starting lineup.
- [64:46]
Rob Mahoney
That is why it's kind of a bogus award. I mean, look, most improved. Also kind of a bogus award. Coach of the year is usually awarded like a year late or in response to the wrong thing. Yes. We don't do these well, but here we are. Well, we're trying to do it better. Right. Like we're trying to rectify mistakes. Although, I don't know, we're mostly speaking to who will win and not who should win. The who should, you know, talk to us in April. I guess that's right.
- [65:10]
Justin Verrier
I mean, Josh Hart has to be named here if he is indeed going to come off the bench. Looks like that's the case.
- [65:15]
Rob Mahoney
I would think so.
- [65:16]
Justin Verrier
Chris Paul. I think Howard Beck nominated him.
- [65:19]
Rob Mahoney
I dig it.
- [65:19]
Justin Verrier
I like it as like just a bookend to his career. Yeah, we'll see how many games he actually plays.
- [65:26]
Rob Mahoney
He only plays 82 now.
- [65:27]
Justin Verrier
That's right.
- [65:28]
Rob Mahoney
That's what he does.
- [65:28]
Justin Verrier
And then I wrote down Ty Jerome. But unfortunately he's also hurt because he's a grizzly point guard.
- [65:32]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [65:33]
Justin Verrier
Rookie of the year.
- [65:34]
Rob Mahoney
It's Cooper Flack.
- [65:35]
Justin Verrier
Yeah, that's an easy one.
- [65:36]
Rob Mahoney
I Don't really, you know, we don't need to dance around it.
- [65:38]
Justin Verrier
You know what I love most about his preseason highlights, which are spectacular in their own right.
- [65:42]
Rob Mahoney
Quite.
- [65:43]
Justin Verrier
It's in the midst of a sizzle reel. He's doing something different to like shock and awe you on every possession. Like one he's like running the pick and roll and pulling up for a three. The next he's catching a lob dunk, and the next one he's going behind his back in the lane for a pull up jumper. I'm like, that's three level scoring already in a preseason highlight.
- [66:03]
Rob Mahoney
Cooper flag is so fun to watch that you just described like versatility to us.
- [66:08]
Justin Verrier
Oh, my God.
- [66:09]
Rob Mahoney
It's what it is. Like he just, he can't do. Like, there's a reason why in a pinch, he's all of a sudden playing point guard. And I think it's, it's the reason why whatever you think of his absolute ceiling as a player, the floor is just like so phenomenally high. At least it seems it. Like the, the fact that he is as competitive, that he plays as hard as he does, that he is a two way player and he could just do all of this stuff. There's just only so bad. Like a player like that can only be so bad.
- [66:33]
Justin Verrier
All right, last one. Coach of the year.
- [66:36]
Rob Mahoney
I think it's going to be Jamal Mosley.
- [66:38]
Justin Verrier
Okay.
- [66:38]
Rob Mahoney
I just think the Magic are going to be that kind of team.
- [66:41]
Justin Verrier
So the Suggs injury, you're not.
- [66:43]
Rob Mahoney
I mean, it always alarms me every time Jalen Suggs gets hurt, which is a lot. I'm always concerned.
- [66:48]
Justin Verrier
Yeah.
- [66:49]
Rob Mahoney
I just think overall their offense is going to be significantly improved. And I hope that some of that is, you know, mechanical as much as it's just like plugging and playing Desmond Bain. Right. It's not just like, oh, we, we brought in a shooter and some point guard help and all of a sudden everything's fixed. I think there's some ways in which they can clean up the way they play and better prioritize and kind of triage what the elements of their offense are. And I think like, I trust Jamal Mosley to do those things. I think he's going to do it. I think the wins will be there and history tells us if the, if the bump is there and wins, then he will win.
- [67:19]
Justin Verrier
The bump is why I went Quinn Snider. Because Hawks could take a similar bump and wins, and they sure could have an easier path because they had the depth, no injuries to speak of at this Point. I'm a little bit worried about the magic, but I do. This is why the Tyus Jones signing was. We made so much about it. Like he's not an emergency point guard. He might be your point guard.
- [67:38]
Rob Mahoney
He might be the point guard. I mean so like what is it that. Is it just the injury stuff that concerns you about Orlando?
- [67:43]
Justin Verrier
Yeah. And just like you've seen their offense get particularly sludgy when Suggs isn't there. You wouldn't think of him as being the unsticker there, but he not only has connector skills and he's gotten much better at that over the past season or two. He's just like the fact that he plays so goddamn hard like I think also galvanizes them in a certain way. And so maybe Bane can do that. He has the exact game in order to do that. And Jones is similar regard. But I want to see it before I like really get behind it.
- [68:11]
Rob Mahoney
I can understand it. I think I'm just like too Orlando pilled at this point in terms of completely buying their defense. Completely buying Franz. Like I'm really optimistic about Paolo season and what it's going to look like in part because of these additions. And so yeah, look, Jalen Suggs changes their team whenever he's on the floor. I hope he's healthy immediately if possible, but if it takes slow playing it to keep him healthy through the back part of the season, then I'm willing to concede that.
- [68:36]
Justin Verrier
I can see it. All right. Finals picks. It all comes down to this. You will be rated by this your entire life.
- [68:45]
Rob Mahoney
I wish I had a more interesting answer than Thunder over Knicks, but I just feel like it's going to be Thunder over Knicks.
- [68:50]
Justin Verrier
Yeah, I have Nuggets over Knicks. We talked about this in the Power Rangers.
- [68:53]
Rob Mahoney
You've really come around.
- [68:54]
Justin Verrier
Yeah. How does it feel?
- [68:55]
Rob Mahoney
So did you just decide to reverse engineer the fact that you were going to believe in the Nuggets now or did it come to you naturally?
- [69:02]
Justin Verrier
Came naturally. I talked about this last season, how I was convinced son Jokic, just like watching him decide that he was going to be one of the best shooters in the league, like at that, it's like it's really hard to put up a fight about anything.
- [69:13]
Rob Mahoney
Okay.
- [69:14]
Justin Verrier
And then the fact that he is always available and the big problem with that team last year was that they just didn't have the depth in order to supplement what they already had. And I just, I see it all coming together with a couple of bench players like they. They were the team that Pushed the Thunder. Obviously the Thunder are going to be the ones chased this year. Have a chance to be awesome yet again. I could easily see them winning another title, but if it's not them, I have a hard time picking anyone but.
- [69:38]
Rob Mahoney
The Nuggets I like. I'm not going to say a bad word about the construction of the Nuggets. Like that's a really good team that's going to be competitive with everyone all season. It's not about what Denver can't do to. It's OKC coming into this season having proven everything they need to prove and only having the potential to be better, like to build on their continuity. I think Chet is probably like one of the players to watch in terms of potential upside swing. What he's ultimately going to be the clarifying importance of his development for the Thunder as a franchise. But it's like I expect Casen Wallace to be better. I expect him to be better. I expect J Dub to be better. Shay will come back with somehow even more ways to make you look like an absolute idiot while you're trying to guard him. Like all of these guys are going to be incrementally better. And so that feels overwhelming to me. Even in a world where nobody repeats anymore. I think the Thunder just going to repeat.
- [70:27]
Justin Verrier
Does Leon get a ring because he's on the roster?
- [70:30]
Rob Mahoney
Well, no, but he should. He should get again a smaller ring sent to him. That I think he deserves it.
- [70:36]
Justin Verrier
How. How will they fit on those big old hands?
- [70:38]
Rob Mahoney
You know what? I think we should implement that rule. Like if you're on the OKC blue, why don't you get a ring?
- [70:44]
Justin Verrier
I think you probably have to pay at some point some of that. It's like a gift, right. You probably have to pay taxes on that stuff.
- [70:50]
Rob Mahoney
Oh, you're saying as the player.
- [70:51]
Justin Verrier
Yeah.
- [70:52]
Rob Mahoney
Okay. Yeah, we don't want to do that. We don't want to like extreme makeover people where they help them to pay like property taxes on something they can't afford.
- [70:58]
Justin Verrier
Yeah.
- [70:59]
Rob Mahoney
In that case, maybe let's just leave it to the pros.
- [71:01]
Justin Verrier
But Nick's, you're buying them in the East?
- [71:03]
Rob Mahoney
I'm buying them relatively. I think they still have, you know, their offense. We're going to need to see kind of consistently humming to understand what it is and how formidable it can be. But most importantly for them, I just, I buy the depth. Like I think Yabuzan Clarkson is actually really, really meaningful. And the combination of them, plus hopefully, hopefully, hopefully having Mitchell Robinson healthy for the whole year, that's kind of enough for me to believe in them as a, as, as I was going to say, as a playoff team, they've already won a hell of a lot in the playoffs. But to get over the kind of hump they would need to. To beat Cleveland and Orlando and Atlanta and all these other kind of would be challenges that they're going to run into.
- [71:39]
Justin Verrier
Yeah. I think the Malcolm Brogdon impromptu retirement, like, shook my fears a little bit because, like, there's a. There's a little bit of a. There's depth.
- [71:46]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [71:47]
Justin Verrier
And that's why I believe them in the same reasons you do.
- [71:49]
Rob Mahoney
I took it as like, Malcolm Brogdon is so shook by Tyler Kolak. He's like, I can't even compete with this guy.
- [71:55]
Justin Verrier
That could be. Or like Landry shame at part 19 of just clinging to a good roster and just like, maybe being able to do something in the playoffs, but not really.
- [72:03]
Rob Mahoney
He did, though.
- [72:03]
Justin Verrier
Yeah. But like, will he do it again?
- [72:06]
Rob Mahoney
I believe it. I believe in Landry Shambit. At this point, I think we have been proven wrong.
- [72:09]
Justin Verrier
No. But I think that the Knicks have the right calculation or the right mix in order to get past what they were last year, which was a very good starting unit. And then it was like, we'll see. So I believe in them and I also believe in the Nuggets, despite your. Your pessimism and doubt about my dim Nuggets.
- [72:26]
Rob Mahoney
What are you talking about?
- [72:27]
Justin Verrier
Yeah. All right. That's it for us. Thank you to Ben Cruz. Thank you to Victoria Valencia. Thank you to Isaiah Blakely. Thank you to all the 19 people back there. Elmo and who else is back there? Jomi. I see. Hey, Jomi. We'll be back on Thursday. Enjoy opening night. We'll talk to you soon. Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 + and present in DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800- GAMBLER or visit RG Help. Com.