Buy the Hype or Bet the Under? Real Ones Team Totals for the 2025-26 Season

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ringer NBA Show – "Buy the Hype or Bet the Under? Real Ones Team Totals for the 2025-26 Season"

Release Date: July 12, 2025

In this engaging episode of The Ringer NBA Show, hosted by Logan Murdoch, along with co-hosts Howard Beck and producer Cliff Augustine, the trio delves into the highly anticipated 2025-26 NBA season. The primary focus of the discussion centers around predicting whether NBA teams will exceed ("buy the hype") or fall short ("bet the under") of their projected win totals. Utilizing odds from betting platforms like FanDuel, the hosts provide in-depth analysis for numerous teams across both conferences.

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Opening Remarks and Guest Absence ([00:00] - [03:05])

Logan Murdoch kicks off the show with his signature enthusiasm, highlighting the absence of Raja Bell, who is reportedly stranded at the Atlanta airport rental car lot. The hosts joke about Raja's perennial struggles with travel logistics, setting a lighthearted tone for the episode.

Logan Murdoch: "Raja Bell, man. Dude, just. We're gonna."

Howard Beck: "[...] We have to skip four minutes and no basketball talk."

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Brooklyn Nets Analysis ([06:41] - [11:01])

The discussion begins with the Brooklyn Nets, who have undergone significant roster changes in the offseason.

Cliff Augustine: "Over. Under 20 and a half wins for the season. Minus 120."

(Note: The transcript likely contains a typo regarding the win total. Assuming the correct over/under is higher, possibly 54.5 wins.)

Howard Beck: "[...] I think we're both landing on under anyway just because, like, you look at that roster and it's just an absolute mess."

Logan Murdoch expresses skepticism about the Nets' ability to surpass the projected win total due to inconsistent roster additions and uncertainties surrounding player health, particularly Cam Thomas and their defensive strategies.

Logan Murdoch: "I am very curious to see how Michael Porter Jr. is going to come into a team where he's expected to give veteran advice."

Conclusion: The consensus leans towards betting the under for the Nets, citing roster instability and defensive concerns.

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Houston Rockets Breakdown ([11:40] - [19:41])

Moving to the Houston Rockets, the hosts discuss significant acquisitions, including Kevin Durant (KD), and the team's improved depth.

Cliff Augustine: "Houston Rockets at 54 and a half. How we feeling about the Houston Rockets at 54 and a half?"

Logan Murdoch cautiously bullish on the Rockets, praising KD's leadership and the team's offensive capabilities while acknowledging potential health issues.

Howard Beck: "They have plenty of other guys. You got Tari Eason, you've got a man Thompson like you've got."

Conclusion: Howard opts to take the over, anticipating a strong season due to the addition of KD and enhanced team depth.

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Atlanta Hawks Insights ([20:10] - [25:00])

The Atlanta Hawks are next, with an over/under set at 46.5 wins.

Cliff Augustine: "The Hawks have a chance. [...] I'm taking the over. I'm gonna say, like, 48 wins."

Howard Beck: "[...] I think the Hawks are projected as the fourth best team in the east, which is wild."

Logan Murdoch remains optimistic, highlighting key players like Trae Young and roster improvements despite concerns about Chris Paul’s health.

Conclusion: The hosts agree on taking the over for the Hawks, expecting significant improvement from last season's 40 wins.

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Denver Nuggets Evaluation ([25:30] - [30:21])

The Denver Nuggets, with an over/under of 53.5 wins, receive mixed reviews.

Cliff Augustine: "Denver Nuggets, how we feeling?"

Logan Murdoch: "I just want to take a quick disclaimer. [...] I'm still taking the under."

Howard Beck: "They had a great offseason. [...] I'll be over for sure."

Despite their championship pedigree and offseason acquisitions like Cam Johnson and Bruce Brown, concerns about regular-season performance and game effort lead Logan to favor the under, while Howard supports the over based on roster improvements.

Conclusion: Divergent opinions with a split between taking the under (Logan) and over (Howard).

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New York Knicks Discussion ([30:30] - [40:04])

The New York Knicks feature with an over/under of 52.5 wins.

Cliff Augustine: "New York Knicks over 52 and a half. Last season, the Knicks won 51 games."

Logan Murdoch: "I just don't know if Mike Brown is the right fit."

Howard Beck: "[...] I'm going over on the 52 and a half."

The conversation revolves around the hiring of Mike Brown as head coach, roster stability with players like Jalen Brunson and Mikhail Bridges, and improving defense with Mitchell Robinson.

Conclusion: Both Howard and, after hesitancy, Logan agree to take the over, expecting modest improvement to surpass the 52.5 win mark.

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Los Angeles Lakers Evaluation ([43:00] - [52:00])

The Lakers, with an over/under set at 48.5 wins, are scrutinized for roster changes and player health.

Howard Beck: "[...] They lost Dorian Finney Smith and replaced him with Deandre Ayton."

Logan Murdoch: "I want to see what he does with that kind of pressure."

Concerns about LeBron James's age, Deandre Ayton's development, and overall roster construction lead to a cautious outlook.

Howard Beck: "I'll go over on the Lakers."

Logan initially conflicted but ultimately supports taking the under due to uncertainties surrounding key players and overall team dynamics.

Conclusion: Both hosts lean towards betting the under for the Lakers, anticipating challenges despite star power.

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Orlando Magic Review ([70:16] - [71:55])

The Orlando Magic have an over/under of 50.5 wins.

Cliff Augustine: "Orlando Magic over 50 and a half. They won 41 games last season."

Logan Murdoch: "The Orlando under unless Paolo turns in like a six-year, six-year LeBron."

Howard Beck: "I'll take the under."

Despite additions like Desmond Bane and Tyus Jones, concerns about offensive efficiency and player development lead to a consensus on taking the under.

Conclusion: Both Cliff and Howard affirm their decisions to take the under, expecting the Magic to fall short of the 50.5-win threshold.

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Minnesota Timberwolves Assessment ([71:55] - [78:12])

With an over/under set at 50.5 wins, the Timberwolves are evaluated based on their young core and reliance on Anthony Edwards (Ant).

Cliff Augustine: "Timberwolves over 50 and a half. They won 49 games last season."

Logan Murdoch: "I'm putting a lot on Ant right now."

Howard Beck: "I'm gonna take the under just to make Peanut mad."

Logan Murdoch opts to take the over, banking on Anthony Edwards' performance, while Howard chooses the under due to concerns about depth and supporting cast.

Conclusion: A split decision with Diverging bets—Over (Logan) vs. Under (Howard).

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Philadelphia 76ers Insights ([53:59] - [71:33])

The Philadelphia 76ers, with an over/under set at 43.5 wins, are discussed amidst player health concerns and roster uncertainties.

Cliff Augustine: "Philadelphia 76ers over 43 and a half. Last season, they won 24 games."

Logan Murdoch: "[...] I'm taking the under, bro. Let's say, like, 32 wins, bro."

Howard Beck: "I'm going over."

Amidst significant injuries to stars like Joel Embiid and Paul George, and potential roster moves, Logan expresses pessimism, while Howard remains cautiously optimistic assuming health improvements.

Conclusion: Contrasting views with Logan taking the under and Howard opting for the over, depending on player health.

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Golden State Warriors Review ([59:38] - [66:31])

The Warriors, facing an over/under of 46.5 wins, are analyzed for their aging core and front-office struggles.

Cliff Augustine: "Golden State Warriors over 46 and a half. They won 48 games last season."

Logan Murdoch: "[...] Steph's getting older. I think I'll take the over."

Howard Beck: "I'll go over."

Despite concerns about Stephen Curry and Draymond Green's ages and potential front-office conflicts over players like Jordan Poole, both hosts decide to take the over, anticipating sufficient team performance to exceed 46.5 wins.

Conclusion: Unified decision to bet the over, expecting the Warriors to maintain competitiveness despite aging stars.

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San Antonio Spurs Analysis ([77:08] - [81:36])

With an over/under of 43.5 wins, the Spurs are portrayed as a team poised for a resurgence.

Cliff Augustine: "San Antonio Spurs over 43 and a half."

Logan Murdoch: "I think Wimby's gonna take another leap."

Howard Beck: "I'll hit the over."

Both hosts express optimism about the Spurs' young talent, particularly Wembanyama (Wimby), and their potential to exceed the projected win total.

Conclusion: Consensus to take the over, expecting significant improvement and development from key young players.

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Cleveland Cavaliers and Oklahoma City Thunder Briefs ([82:34] - [83:22])

Before wrapping up, brief mentions are made of the Cleveland Cavaliers and Oklahoma City Thunder:

• Cleveland Cavaliers: With an over/under of 56.5 wins, Howard Beck takes the over, anticipating continued success from stars like Darius Garland and Evan Mobley.

• Oklahoma City Thunder: Set at 62.5 wins, Logan Murdoch opts for the under, citing concerns about sustaining championship performance and potential fatigue.

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Closing Remarks ([83:00] - End)

The episode concludes with lighthearted banter and anticipation for the season finale scheduled for July 24th. The hosts tease possible special segments and interactions with regular contributors, maintaining the show's engaging and personable atmosphere.

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Notable Quotes:

• Howard Beck ([01:29]): "Raja throws us a curveball. [...] What was it like an hour before we're coming on?"

• Logan Murdoch ([10:05]): "How are you gonna use him as a number one option while trying to bring Amin along?"

• Howard Beck ([16:29]): "You got Tyrese Eason, you've got a man Thompson like you've got. [...] I think this team is primed to just start stomping people."

• Logan Murdoch ([43:35]): "What are you doing with this kind of pressure and, you know, we'll see what happens."

• Howard Beck ([49:04]): "So I'm tempted to go under on vibes alone here."

• Logan Murdoch ([65:42]): "But that is the facts. They have fumbled a lot of things because of this stuff that's going on in the front office."

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Conclusion:

This episode of The Ringer NBA Show offers a comprehensive analysis of NBA teams' potential performance in the upcoming season, focusing on over/under win totals. Hosts Logan Murdoch and Howard Beck provide insightful commentary, balancing statistical projections with qualitative assessments of team dynamics, player health, and roster changes. While some predictions align between the hosts, others showcase differing perspectives, enriching the discussion and offering listeners a well-rounded view of the expected trends in the NBA's 2025-26 season.

Transcript

[Logan Murdoch]

What's good? Real ones. Logan Murdoch here. I am joined today by Howard Mother effing Beck. We do the over unders for every team that you can imagine in the NBA. Not all 30 teams, but every team that you can imagine. We are joined also by Cliff Augustine, who helped us go through the discussion of over under. Great show for you guys today. Real ones next. Play the theme music. What's poppin, Real ones. Logan Murdoch here. Howard back there. Raja is probably still at the rental car lot in Atlanta airport. Dude, just. We're gonna. Okay, first.

[Howard Beck]

I can't, man. I just.

[Logan Murdoch]

I can't. We're gonna talk. We're gonna give the over unders on all the teams that Cliff, in a second, will give us when he comes in his little bubble. But all that to say Raja Bell, man.

[Howard Beck]

Raj, Raja Bell, you know? You know, Logan, we try to plan the show. We send out texts, we send out confirmations. We make sure everybody's on the same page. Raja throws us a curveball. Hey, I'm gonna be on the road. It's all right. It's all right. We can push back a little bit, give you time to get on the ground, get to your hotel, get set. It's good. It's fine. What was it like an hour before we're coming on?

[Logan Murdoch]

Hour before the pod? Yes.

[Howard Beck]

And the photo is. Is. The photo's troubling. The photo's troubling. It's the line. It's a big line. But what's the first thing, Logan, that you and I would think as frequent travelers, seeing our buddy Raja, who's. Who's been doing this a while. He's got kids.

[Cliff Augustine]

He's a player.

[Howard Beck]

He's traveled for a long time. He's got kids, he's got. He's got recruiting trips.

[Logan Murdoch]

Look at this. Look at this picture that he sends us, ladies and gentlemen.

[Howard Beck]

There you go. For those who are watching us, just a.

[Logan Murdoch]

Just. Just. Just a rookie mistake, man. Just like he. He didn't. He didn't join a rewards program. That's the first thing you do. How. What are we doing, Raja?

[Howard Beck]

How. How are.

[Logan Murdoch]

You know what it is, though? No, we've talked about this on this podcast before. We have talked about this on this podcast before. Me and him, and I think me, all three of us offline the adjustment that professional athletes have to make going back to real life, because everything, most of Raj's life, or at least professional life, was he's going on a PJ bro, or he's going on a charter, and then they're gonna go on a bus, and then they're gonna go to the hotel that they get their keys handed to them, and then they're gonna go play an arena, and then they're gonna go to another city and do the whole rigamaru all over again.

[Howard Beck]

But he's been a civilian for how long now? It's been a while.

[Logan Murdoch]

14 years.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah. Yeah. By now. And, like, how many recruiting trips with his kids? How many AAU tournaments? How many camps and everything else? How many family vacation? How do you not have.

[Logan Murdoch]

How.

[Howard Beck]

How do you. How are you not in every rewards program?

[Logan Murdoch]

You got to skip the line is us. You don't ever.

[Howard Beck]

People of the world, our listeners.

[Logan Murdoch]

No, no, no, no, no.

[Howard Beck]

Don't get in the line. No, that's fine.

[Logan Murdoch]

This is like, don't. Don't give them the game, because it's gonna it up for us on the other end. Because I remember a certain airport program that we used to say on podcast. I'm not gonna say it right now because I'm not gonna put everybody up on game because I want to make sure that this line is cool. But everybody in the journalism world thought they was cool because they was like, oh, when I go to the airport, I do this not knowing that the podcast space was gonna blow up and that it was gonna blow up the secret for everybody. So actually, don't give them the secret. Give Rising a secret so he can be on time for this damn podcast. And he's not going to be on today. But not everybody else. Okay. All right, let's reset here. Okay. Four minutes and no basketball talk. Let's get back. Let's log back in. We have. We have our guy producer Cliff, who is listening to RG3 highlights.

[Cliff Augustine]

I was closing out. No, I was. I literally opened my phone up to some. Unlocked my phone up to Twitter, and it had some stupid video.

[Logan Murdoch]

Okay, all right.

[Cliff Augustine]

Exited out of it, so.

[Logan Murdoch]

Okay. Okay. All right. We're gonna. We're gonna. What are we gonna do today, Cliff? What are we. What are. What are. What's on the agenda?

[Cliff Augustine]

NBA futures. Over unders, baby. Come on, man. You already know what it is, bro. We get excited. X NBA season's coming up.

[Howard Beck]

Because if there's anything I'm known for, it's gambling odds.

[Logan Murdoch]

Presented by fanduel.

[Howard Beck]

I just clear before we jump into this. I know jack about gambling odds. Do not take anything I say as actual gambling advice, please. But over unders are a good guideline.

[Cliff Augustine]

To, like, kind of Howard. Over unders are the easiest Thing. All you got to say yes or no.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah, no, that. That part of your stead, you start doing, like, plus 5,000. Minus 300. Whatever. I. I got no idea what you're talking. You might as well be, like, talking a foreign language like, lost me.

[Cliff Augustine]

Look, I. I got you. I got you. Howard, don't worry. I'm the professional gambler slash non gambler here, so I got y' all anything y' all need. I got you. Y' all know that.

[Howard Beck]

Appreciate it.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah, Cliff's still taking them trips to Atlantic City.

[Cliff Augustine]

Yo, you've been to Atlantic City recent years.

[Logan Murdoch]

Absolutely not.

[Cliff Augustine]

Okay. There's a reason why I don't be there. Shout out to everybody from Atlantic City. I know some folks from out there, so shout out to Atlantic City.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah, shout out to Atlantic City. Rooms.

[Cliff Augustine]

I'm good out there, but I celebrated a birthday out there one year, and it got dicey.

[Logan Murdoch]

Oh, God. Oh, God.

[Howard Beck]

I seen it once on a Nets preseason trip way back in, like, 2012, and we were in and out quick, and I was like, I don't think I need to see this place again. Maybe. It's come a long way, Sid. That's what that was a long time ago.

[Logan Murdoch]

It's come a long way, but not in the way that we would hope for.

[Cliff Augustine]

Howard. It's coming.

[Howard Beck]

I still don't want to go back.

[Cliff Augustine]

It's come a long way in the wrong direction. Just put it that way.

[Logan Murdoch]

All right. It's gone a long way.

[Howard Beck]

Guess the Nets won't be going back for another preseason.

[Cliff Augustine]

Nah, nah. That's. Will gladly just remain in New York. They will not be in Jersey anytime soon. All right, y' all want to do this first over, under or what?

[Logan Murdoch]

Let's hit us.

[Cliff Augustine]

You don't sound excited, man. Do you want.

[Logan Murdoch]

Like, man, do you, man? Do you. We're pressing. Shuffle.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah. There you go.

[Cliff Augustine]

All right, let's randomize. Let's randomize. Let's randomize. All right, let's start off with. Speaking of New York, let's start off with the Brooklyn Nets, baby.

[Logan Murdoch]

Oh, man. Oh, shit.

[Cliff Augustine]

Over. Under 20 and a half wins for the season. Minus 120. Yeah. What are we looking? How are we feeling? The Brooklyn Nets this off season acquired Michael Porter Jr. From the Denver Nuggets for Ford, Cameron Johnson. They got Terrence Mann as well. They got Drake Powell. They signed Traore, Asa Newell as a rookie, and Tyson Etienne as a rookie. They had a bunch of rookies. Put it that way. They just drafted a bunch of rookies. Their over under Total is set at 20 and a half wins. I'm pretty sure Michael Porter junior's shot over under for the season is at 13 and a half per game. So there you go. Brooklyn Nets, 20 and a half wins.

[Howard Beck]

Ooh, man.

[Logan Murdoch]

Ooh.

[Howard Beck]

This is how you know that Vegas.

[Logan Murdoch]

Does a good job with this stuff.

[Howard Beck]

Or FanDuel does a good job with this stuff. Whoever does a good job with this stuff. Because, like, I look at that and I think, like, I really don't. I'm tempted to say under, but, like, it's like, that's the right range. Like, if they. If they win 20, they've had a good season. This is like they. They took a team that was already intentionally not so great, and you. You ripped off Cam Johnson. You replace it with Michael Porter Jr. Who, like, maybe you could say, like, talent for talent. Like, just different talents, but, like. But there's no. There's no there. You ain't pushing anything forward here. They've added no one of note. Nobody thought they were using all five draft picks. They drafted five rookies. Like, I don't. They have gotten to the point where a year ago I thought, I get what they're trying to do, and now they've gotten to the point where I'm like, I have no idea what they're trying to do. Under.

[Logan Murdoch]

You know what? I just looked. I was. I was thinking. The first thought of my mind came to the Washington Wizards from two years ago, and I was like, did they get to, like, 21 wins? No, they got to 15. And so it's going to be a. Oh, it's going to be a tough one. They're basically the Utah Jazz east at this point. Right. Like, there's Michael Porter Jr.

[Howard Beck]

In the role of Lowry Markkanen.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah, he's bro. Also, I'm very curious to see how Michael Porter Jr. Is going to come into a team where he's expected to give veteran advice.

[Howard Beck]

I shouldn't laugh.

[Cliff Augustine]

Wait, you mean NBA champion Michael Porter Jr. Logan? What do you. Come on. What we doing?

[Logan Murdoch]

I'm talking about. I'm. No, no, no, no, no. I'm not talking about him. I'm talking about curious Mike, the YouTuber. I'm very curious to see. This is an Andre Iguodala going into a. Into a. A young and hungry locker room. This is. This is going to be an interesting setup. Right, because they don't really matter in the New York sphere. Right? They're the Clippers of the east.

[Howard Beck]

Without the.

[Logan Murdoch]

They're busy without the wins and Just overall organizational stability. But I like Jordy Fernandez as a coach. I really like what I, I like what he does and I know that he's the type of coach where guys are going to play hard for him and he's not going to, he's not going to take anything less than the players best. Right. And like, you know the reason why I thought over and by over, I don't mean like 28 wins, I mean like 21. Right? Yeah. Like, yeah, you can get seven, eight wins just playing harder than another team. Right? Like, that's just, that's so that makes me tempted to do it. But then I'm seeing like, are they going to bring, are they going to bring. Are they going to bring Cam Thomas back? Is that, is that. Do you. How do you do?

[Howard Beck]

Right.

[Logan Murdoch]

Because that's a big question here too. Right. He's going to take also a Cam Thomas, Michael Porter Jr. Michael Porter Jr. Backcourt. Nah, I'm giving 13 wins. That. The optimism.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah. Jordy Fernandez is the best thing they got going for them right now. That and the fact that eventually maybe they trade Nick Claxton for more stuff or, I don't know, in a year. Are they flipping Michael Porter Jr. For stuff? I don't know. I don't know what they're doing with Cam Thomas. But the Cam Thomas vs. Michael Porter Jr. For who can take the most shots in a game, in a, in a month, in a season is going to be wild. But Jordy Fernandez is a really good coach and he did, he did get more than anybody else or anybody expected last year out of them. They overachieved for long stretches of the season. They might again. Which does make me tempted to join you on the over impulse. But I think we're both landing on under anyway just because, like, you look at that roster and it's just a absolute mess.

[Logan Murdoch]

Question for you. You know how last year the Utah Jazz just, just sat like their starters like they sat John Collins just for any explicit injury. Do you think that the Brooklyn Nets are just going to sit Jordy Fernandez in games? You can't get fined for that.

[Howard Beck]

You can get fined for, for sitting Lowry marketed with fake injuries. You need to get fined for if, if, like, if the coach is tanking, if the coach. You get fake injuries, like, you can't. That's, that's outside of the purview. So yeah.

[Logan Murdoch]

Jordy Fernandez. Is that Carbone with a cough? You know, like, is that, could that be a thing for next year?

[Howard Beck]

We've, we have talked too Long about the nets. We should move on.

[Logan Murdoch]

Next. Who's, what's next?

[Cliff Augustine]

All right, what is next here? Look who I landed on the Houston Rockets with. One of Logan's favorite players over 54 and a half at minus 128. How we feeling about the Houston Rockets at 54 and a half?

[Logan Murdoch]

I just want to say a quick disclaimer. Fucking hate you, Cliff. I hate you. I hate you. That being said, go ahead, Howard, you've got.

[Howard Beck]

No, you, you, you kick it off. I was just gonna say it's. This is where we, this is where we miss Raja because. Because at some point I'm gonna end up, like, slightly slandering Jalen Green or something. And, and we need Raja here to go off on me. But see, we already miss you, Raj.

[Logan Murdoch]

I love you, buddy. 54. Why do y' all make me do this? I'm, I'm a little bullish on the Rockets, to be honest with you, man. I mean, is bullish the right word? I don't know. Like, I, I, yeah, I think that on paper, Kevin Durant is amazing. Don't let anybody tell you that I said otherwise, including the man himself. I think he's an amazing basketball player. I'm a little bullish on him just because I think Katie's a great basketball player. I want to see what he's going to be as a leader in this context, right? Because, and I know a lot of people are saying, like, Ma Udoka is the dude and he's going, Kevin's never had a coach like him before and this is going to be great for him. I do believe all of those things, but I do think that, you know, whenever Kevin has gotten challenged, he is, you know, kind of gone the other way with it. Right? Like, he's gotten challenged and played hard from his on the day to day and played harder, but it has definitely had long term effects. So I think that Ma has his work cut out for him. Do they get to 57 wins? Probably. But also there's the Katie health thing as well. There is the question of Almond Thompson if he's going to be able to take that leap. I mean, Raja doesn't seem to think so, at least for next season. This is like a multi year season thing. I don't know if he's going to turn into prime Kawhi Leonard, which is what you want or which is what you think you're going to get in the next couple of years. What's going to happen with him? Right? Is Sangoon going to play any Defense, Is he going to play anything? I will say this though. I am. I do love the fact that I get to watch a functioning offense down the stretch in Houston. Right. Not just Shangoon taking it from half court. And everybody knows he's going to back in somebody and like throw in like a little hook shot that may or may not go in.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah.

[Logan Murdoch]

Or am I in Thompson, you know, not necessarily knowing what he's doing down the stretch, although he did have that great play in Boston. But I do want to. There needs to be maturation from this roster that I just can't, I can't gauge yet in, in July. So I think I'm gonna say over, but I'm not comfortable with it right now.

[Howard Beck]

Howard, they won 52 games last season. The over under 54 and a half. Like the idea that they would be at least two to three wins better. I, I think, I think is, is justifiable. That might have been justifiable even if they hadn't swapped out Jalen Green and Dylan Brooks for KD and KD's. You know, the obvious thing, right. He's going to make them better in late game situations. Yeah. You got to get him healthy through the season and hope he gets, you know, gives you at least 65 games. But they're going to be, you know, another year more experienced, another year together. Katie. To stabilize things in fourth quarters when Jalen Green again was sometimes getting benched in playoff games. That won't happen with Kevin Durant. Whatever you lost in Dylan Brooks's defense, like, you've got plenty of other guys. You got Tari Eason, you've got a man Thompson like you've got. Plus they signed Dorian Finney Smith. Dorian Finney Smith. Like if, if there were an all star team for role players, like he's like elite at the role player level. He's. He's great. And you can plug and play him. He can play small ball five. He can play next to Shangun. If Shangoon's the five, you can play next to Steven Adam, Clint Capelic, their big man rotation has a lot of, A lot of depth and versatility. Their, their bench is deep. Like the Rockets can play 10, 11 legit rotation guys. And we're in an era where depth matters as much. I don't want to say matters more than star power. Stars are still who get you, you know, to the championship and deep in the playoffs. But like we keep seeing how much depth matters now and the Rockets have it and so yeah, I'll go over 54 and a half. Like, I think this team is primed to just start stomping people. They were already really good last year with a very young team. And I think the, you know, additions of kd, Dorian, Finney, Smith, Clint Capella, I think that much better.

[Logan Murdoch]

And they, you know, they're going to beat the hell out of teams physically on a given night, too, now, right? And then they have the scoring ability. Like, KD is scoring like it's five years ago. Like, his offensive production doesn't stop and like, as he gets older and his, like, defense kind of declines. Like, he. You're not really going to see that on this Rockets team because they're just so deep defensively, right? Like, they have. You can pair him with a Clint Capella. You could pair him with a Steven Adams. Like, resigning Stephen Adams was such a big deal for them as well. He played really well in the postseason. They're a big team. They're a deep team. I like them. You know, I like him a lot. I. I do wonder though, like, who's more important? Like, it's. Katie's obviously far and away the number one option here, but, like, how do you do you that. How do you use him as a number one option while trying to bring Amin along? Right. Like, you still, he's clearly your face of the future. So I feel like there's a balance there as well. Let's try to find tension points here. I think that they're a great team and they're going to be fine, especially in that. That Western Conference.

[Howard Beck]

They are one of only two teams, I think, along with Denver, who have a legitimate chance to challenge the Thunder. Right. Like, there's a bunch of other teams that are good, but you've got the top tiers, the Thunder. The next tier is Rockets and Nuggets, who both had great off seasons. And I think, you know, I think the great thing about KD right now at this stage of his career is it does seem like he's. He's thinking about, like, the bigger picture a lot and what the end game is for him and like, putting him on a young team like Phoenix was funky, so we don't need to get into that. But like, I going to a team where he's tight with the coach, Emi Udoka, he's got young guys who, who do need his. His leadership. Even if it's not like vocal leadership, if it's just. Even if. Just lead by example, even it's just lead by mentorship, even it's just lead by little tips here. And there on a practice day or a shoot around, they've got other guys who can beat. Like, Fred Van Vliet's a hell of a leader, you know, and IME is a leader. Like, they don't. He doesn't need to be the vocal guy. He just needs to be the guy who's like, been there, done that, seen everything, really smart and knows the game and knows how to develop your game. I think he'll be great for Amen Thompson. And I don't think KD at this stage of his career is going to feel like, oh, I got to get up more shots in a game than, than Amen Thompson. Like, I think this is going to work fine. I think my only concern for them at all is, is Katie's health. And I think they have enough depth that they can nurse him through the season and don't have to ride them too hard.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah. Also, he has a competent front office that he can't overpower, which is, I think a really good thing for him.

[Howard Beck]

You know, when he did that last stop.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Raphael Stone is in a great job and just built like they got KD for damn near nothing. Like, and they kept their depth intact and they got better along the margins. Like, yeah, Rockets are going to be good. You're right. I'll say like 58 wins. I'll give them 58 wins. With the caveat for maybe 60.

[Howard Beck]

Now you can watch the hottest movies.

[Logan Murdoch]

And series with Hulu on Disney. With Hulu, say yes, chef to a new season of FX is the Bear. And don't miss Marvel Television's action packed new series Ironheart on Disney.

[Howard Beck]

All of these and more now streaming.

[Logan Murdoch]

With Hulu on Disney with a bundle.

[Howard Beck]

Subscription terms apply.

[Logan Murdoch]

Visit disneyplus.com hulu for details.

[Howard Beck]

Now you can watch the hottest movies.

[Logan Murdoch]

And series with Hulu on Disney. With Hulu, say yes, chef to a new season of FX is the Bear. And don't miss Marvel Television's action packed new series Ironheart on Disney.

[Howard Beck]

All of these and more now streaming.

[Logan Murdoch]

With Hulu on Disney with a bundle.

[Howard Beck]

Subscription terms apply.

[Logan Murdoch]

Visit disneyplus.com hulu for details.

[Cliff Augustine]

Cliff all right, let's take it back east to Victoria's favorite city. That is Atlanta. Welcome to Atlanta where the players play. All right, over is 46 and a half. Atlanta missed this all season. They got Porzingis. They got Nikhil Alexander Walker looking pretty good. How we feeling about the Hawks at 46 and a half?

[Howard Beck]

Yo, wait, was that, was that the over under on their Win total or they're over under on how many hours Raja's standing in line for his rental car.

[Logan Murdoch]

Oh, shit.

[Cliff Augustine]

Raja gonna be in there for two days.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yo, man, I just real quick about Atlanta. Airborne dog. It don't matter what little special program you in, what fucking list you're on, dog. You are gonna wait. You are gonna fucking wait. That airport, it was funny even last night when he was like, yo, man, I'm gonna get to the. I'm gonna get to the hotel. Like, I touched out at this time. I'll be there in like an hour. And in the back of my mind, I was like, you going to Atlanta, my guy? Like, yeah. Are you sure you're not going to Oklahoma City? You're going to Atlanta? I was appalled. That's not fired. That's some bullshit.

[Cliff Augustine]

And for Reference, Atlanta won 40 games last season.

[Logan Murdoch]

40 games. I want to. I think Atlanta's my sleeper. And I don't even know how much it's over easy. I think they're going to get 50 wins this season. 50, 50, 50. I like.

[Cliff Augustine]

It's a lot of wins, brother.

[Howard Beck]

I mean, the east is. The east is.

[Logan Murdoch]

East is terrible. I mean, they got like the likes of the Sixers in. In there.

[Howard Beck]

That was gratuitous.

[Logan Murdoch]

Some other teams that we're gonna have to talk about, I think the Hawks have a chance. I mean. I mean, the big. Obviously, the big question mark is Chris Shops for Zingus's health, right? But I like what they did along the mars. They got a new front office who's. Who's doing good and just trying things, right? I think, like, especially if you're in the Eastern Conference right now, and by extension, in this new apron era, if you just try things and just. Just try to get players and dudes on your roster and just. You can make a run. It's a roll of the dice, and you can get to the conference finals, right? And this is a big year for Trey Young. Like, all these years of trade rumors. This. I feel like there's. There's a rejuvenation there. And I can see like a repeat of 2021. Just for the simple fact of what. Where the Eastern Conference is. I really like the Hawks. I really like what they've done. I love. Naw, I love what they've done in this off season, I think they're. I'm gonna take the over. I'm gonna take. I'm gonna say, like, 48 wins.

[Howard Beck]

It's funny because the over. Under 46 and a half, you know that, you know, whatever. It's like a six and a half win increase from last season. It doesn't seem that dramatic. Although going from sub 500 to. To 46 and a half like that, you know, it's significant. What hit me actually was when I was putting these in order and noticing that they are actually the fourth highest ranked team in the east by over unders. Right. Like they're only behind Cleveland, New York and Orlando. Another team that's expected to make a big leap based on their off season and based on presumed health after another rough injury year. But like the Hawks, by win, by by over under. The Hawks are projected as the fourth best team in the east, which is wild and is at least as much a statement about the east as it is about the stuff the Hawks have done. I like the move for poor Zingis. Let's hope that whatever was ailing him in that last several months with Boston gets figured out because he. He just. He was like. He's sapped of energy. It was some kind of. Of infection that he couldn't kick. It was something strange and he seemed really troubled by it. So hopefully that's all straightened out. Nikhil Alexander Walker is a great pickup. Canard's nice pickup. They lose Capella, Caris Lavert, George Niang. But I like overall who's incoming versus who's outgoing. Like, I think they, I think they improved and they're going to get Jalen Johnson back, which is the biggest deal. Right? Like that's, that's the huge addition is just presumably having a full season of him after he was having a breakout year. And then Trae Young was, you know, last season really looked like he'd kind of found the right balance of playmaking versus scoring. Just, you know, playing off his teammates more, setting them up better. The Dyson Daniels, Nikhil Alexander Walker combination on the wings defensively could be really great. I'm. I'm bullish on them too. I. Over 46 and a half feels like a really big leap for them. But given the state of the East, I'm going to say yes. I'm still not convinced that the fourth best team in the east, but I'll go over on the 46 and a half.

[Logan Murdoch]

Hey man. Live show at Cascade April Cliff.

[Cliff Augustine]

I feel like Magic City is a more appropriate venue, but that's just me.

[Logan Murdoch]

That's Howard's favorite spot. Let's move on.

[Howard Beck]

I'll be at the coffee house down the street.

[Cliff Augustine]

How are we going to get.

[Logan Murdoch]

I'll be at the coffee House down the street.

[Cliff Augustine]

No how. Howard's gonna get the Lula Lemon pepper special.

[Logan Murdoch]

That's what I heard. Yeah, for sure.

[Cliff Augustine]

All right. All right, let's get. Let's get back out. Let's get back out west, man. Let's go to Denver. The Nuggets over 53 and a half at minus 110. For reference, last season, the Denver Nuggets won 50 games and they had a loaded off season. Who knows what up? Jonas Valentine, they traded for Cam Johnson, they got Bruce Brown back, and they got Tim Hardaway Jr. So, Denver Nuggets, how we feeling?

[Logan Murdoch]

I'm still taking the under and it's no disrespect to like them and how good they're gonna be like 51 games, man. It's like 50 games. No, it's not disrespectful. You know why? Because they don't try on certain games. They just outright don't try. Like there's. There's always going to be a curious game in March or January. There's a lot of people in Denver. I know they're like, you're right, Logan. This is right. We see this all the time. But that doesn't mean they're not going to the conference finals and. Or the finals. It just means that they don't try during the regular season like they do. Just enough to get like a four seed. And then they go say, we could kick your ass anywhere. You know, that's. That's just what they are. I love what they've done with the roster. I love how they've revamped it. They needed to get rid of someone in that. In that. That Core 3. And Michael Porter Jr. Was the obvious one to do it with his contract and just how we. Just how erratic he was. And I know he was going through an injury in the playoffs. But you. I feel like this Nuggets team need more of a guiding force in that position or more of a steady force in that position. And Cam Johnson provides that. And they have a lot of. They're a lot deeper than they are with Bruce than they were last year. They got Bruce Brown back. Christian Brown is still there. Like, I like what. They're a playoff team, but in a regular season, I don't know if they get to 54 wins. Like I. You're gonna ask me that. I'm be like, I. I'll say a 50, 51. Because they don't try in some games and it's annoying.

[Howard Beck]

I'm gonna go over. But before I get into like the.

[Logan Murdoch]

The, the, the, the.

[Howard Beck]

The details. Like, I just want to say this, like, props to the organization overall. Ben Tenzer. And I can't remember who else they hired.

[Logan Murdoch]

Do your victory. Hold on, hold on.

[Howard Beck]

Real quick, real quick.

[Logan Murdoch]

Do your victory lap. Do your victory lap. You were right.

[Howard Beck]

Which.

[Logan Murdoch]

What?

[Howard Beck]

Victory lap.

[Cliff Augustine]

For what?

[Logan Murdoch]

Do the. Do the Mike Malone victory lap, please.

[Howard Beck]

No, it's not in anything. No, it's. It's more this. I think that the one question we had about the Nuggets the last couple years was like, all right, you know, you. You know, you. You spent huge to keep Jamal Murray. He's, you know, tech. He's probably overpaid by, like, by the toughest standards, he's overpaid. Michael Porter Jr. Certainly overpaid, but you had to pay all these guys because you won a championship, and then it was locked up, and then it was second apron and then it was, how are you going to possibly. They found a way, like, in this era of second apron and luxury taxes and frozen draft picks and all these penalties for being a high spender. And when you're. Once you're in jail, it's really hard to get out of cap jail. And with a brand new front, not brand new. It was guys who were mostly already there, but they offed Calvin Booth and they offed Michael Malone as coach, and they had all this. This ambiguity about who was leading them. And they didn't go out and hire a new person. They just kind of promoted some guys, reshuffled some things, and they had a really good offseason. One of the best off seasons in the NBA. Getting Cam Johnson, Valanchunas, who we'll see if they talk him into playing and not going back to Europe. Bruce Brown, some Hardaway Jr. Like, that was a really good off season, the Porter Jr. Trade. You know, I've heard, you know, Bill, kill the nets over it. I don't, I don't think it was that bad on the net side of it. But being able to trade Porter and his contract and get out of that and get Cam Johnson, who I think is a better fit and a better overall player. Like, they did a good job. That was a really good off season for them. And the bench is now deeper. That was a big problem for them. The supporting cast, period is just better balanced. And I've never been the biggest, like, Tim Hardaway Jr. Guy because, like, you know, sometimes it just becomes Tim Hardaway Jr. Time. But I think it can't hurt when the dude gets hot. Like, look out. There was A I don't know whose podcast it was, whose show it was, But Tim Hardaway Jr. And Cam Johnson were on together and were asked, I, I, I apologize to whoever's show it was when they were asked about like playing with Jokic and they both just like broke into these huge smiles because they know they're going to get all kinds of open shots. And these are guys who both shoot a pretty good percentage from three anyway. But you shoot a better percentage from three when you've got a guy setting you up in rhythm. Open shots all the time. And Jokic is going to do that. I think they had a great off season. I think they're, they're in prime position to have a great regular season. And I think to your point, Logan, about kind of dragging through the, the dog days of the season and maybe not trying, I think some of that is like once you've won a championship, you start treating the regular season a little bit differently. But when you bring in a bunch of guys who haven't won it, who haven't been there, which they have, you refresh the bench a little bit, refresh the supporting cast. And Michael Porter Jr. Is one of those guys who's guilty of just kind of like floating through parts of the season. He's gone now, so I think this revives them a little bit, puts new energy there. 53 and a half. I'm over for sure.

[Logan Murdoch]

And that was the young man in a 3 shout out to thank you for. Yeah, great show to the folks over there for sure. Shout out Tommy also like have done a good job. Shout out to Tommy also like, you know, still held down the fort even with JJ going. So shout out to them. Who's next?

[Cliff Augustine]

Who is next? Let me get in my east coast elitist bag and go to the New York Knicks. Over 52 and a half. For reference, last season the New York Knicks won 51 games.

[Logan Murdoch]

Now is that, is that, is that wins or is that the amount of over under headaches that our guy Ben is going to have from watching this team next year? Really?

[Cliff Augustine]

Really?

[Howard Beck]

That's where you went with that?

[Logan Murdoch]

Logan, I love our guy. I was just asking.

[Howard Beck]

No, I just, you're immediately like being like Debbie Downer on, on, on the Knicks and like you're like, you're worried about, you're worried about Ben psyche already. And it's like July, man.

[Logan Murdoch]

I mean, he said he wanted to hear our thoughts on the pods about this new hobby. Hit it. I just want to preface this by saying, like, I love Mike Brown.

[Cliff Augustine]

Yo, Whenever you do that before. Yeah, I'm about to say, yeah, you know, the big. The butt is coming. It's not gonna be the light dude.

[Logan Murdoch]

Love that dude, comma. However, I just don't think that this was the right situation or the right type of coach for this situation. You basically got a carbon copy of what you just. Which you just got rid of. And I think it gives more credence, honestly, to the smoke that Roger was putting out there about like, it had to have been bigger to get rid of Tibeto. Also get rid. It had to be bigger reasons than what was given to which to get rid of Thibodeau. And so I think that they're gonna play hard for Mike Brown. I think that they're going to be good. I think they just needed a new type of blood. And I don't know if Mike Brown is the new type of blood that you were looking for. Like, Tyler Jenkins may have been that, you know, but I think that they. I think that for a veteran group, I think that Mike Brown is a little bit more suited at this stage right now for a younger crop that he can kind of mold in his image. These guys are already there. And that being said, this is a big. This is a big test for him, a huge test for him, because we've seen what he's done with veteran groups. Like, I think about the Lakers in, you know, 2012 era where they were really good, but at a point in time, like, they tuned him out because he works really hard. He works so hard. And he. And that reverberates to, you know, shoot arounds. A lot of shoot arounds, a lot of practice days. And that is a. And Knicks right now are a veteran group. So he's going to have to do a lot of adjusting on the fly. And I think that there could have been maybe somebody would have saw. I think this team may have needed somebody with a softer touch while trying to figure out, you know, keeping their identity. And I think they're going to keep their identity with Mike Brown. I just don't know. I just don't know if he was the right fit in terms of like a guy that's going to work really hard. And also, you know, I'm just like kind of choosing my words wisely here because I don't want to get. But I think that they needed a guy that was going to just have like a softer touch. I'll just say that. I'll put it that way.

[Howard Beck]

I would agree with.

[Logan Murdoch]

That's giving me a crazy look Right now.

[Howard Beck]

So you're going under the 52 and.

[Logan Murdoch]

A half, Cliff, you good?

[Cliff Augustine]

Hey, look, man, I'm chilling, man. I'm just, I'm just listening to your analysis, that's all, brother.

[Logan Murdoch]

You gonna edit it, right? It's cool. You gonna edit it, right? You and Victoria gonna hold me down?

[Cliff Augustine]

There's no edits on this podcast, bro. We just go straight. We. We go straight through it.

[Howard Beck]

So.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah. Right. To be clear.

[Howard Beck]

To be clear, are you going under that 52 and a half, Logan?

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah.

[Howard Beck]

That slight little hesitation like backed away from microphone. Yeah, I think so. Look, I, I see what you're saying with, with Mike Brown, especially compared with Tibbs and being in, in somewhat the same mold. The difference I see is this. I don't think that Tibbs was fired because he had worn out the players, although maybe there were some elements and some rumblings of that in some corners of the locker room. This isn't the classic case of the old coach wore them out. So we got to flip to the, the player friendly coach and the more personable guy who's going to like, you know, be the person, the relationships. Got it? This was more about the coach and the front office and. Or ownership than I think it was coach to players. So I'm less, I'm less concerned about Mike walking in with the way that he, you know, coaches and having it be too much of the same of what they just had. But let's start with the players first. So, like, they had a good off season. They picked up Jordan Clarkson and Gershon. Gershon Yabu Sally, formerly Eclipse team. They, they. I hope folks who are watching saw Cliff's reaction there just now. I'm sorry, Cliff. Good pickups. Like one of the problems with that team last year when whether you want to put it on the front office for not getting better players or whether you want to put it on tips for not quote unquote, developing the bench. Like, either way, the bench one wasn't great and he did turn to them too late. But those are upgrades. Clarkson, Yabaselli are upgrades. I think you've got your second full year of Cat with Brunson. You got your second full year with Mikhail Bridges. Like, there's a, there's some continuity stuff here that I think plays in their favor. And when it comes to Coach Logan, I'll just say this, like, however much Mike Brown might be more in the image of Tibbs than he is of, say, I don't know, maybe even Steve Kerr, who he worked for, for all Those years at the Warriors, Mike Brown is a definitely a much more personable and, I think, easygoing person than Tibbs is. That's not a knock on Tibbs. This is just the way they're wired. And I think that Mike's even, by contrast, softer touch or just more personable touch, little younger. I just think that that and everything that he learned. The Lakers experience was a long time ago, and that was a really difficult team. That was. You know, didn't he. Didn't he have Kobe and Dwight and Steve Nash or was that the next season? I think that's when he got started off, when he. Yeah, when he had those guys. Like, Kobe ain't easy, period.

[Logan Murdoch]

So he's the reason why Bernie Bickerstaff is the winningest coach in lakers with.

[Howard Beck]

That, like, 20 record or whatever it was.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah.

[Howard Beck]

No, I think that, you know, Mike picked up a lot during his years with the warriors in terms of relationships, in terms of how to balance things. You know, like, Steve Kerr's whole thing is like, we don't have to live and breathe this every hour of the day. We can. We can take a day off and everybody can go golf or go watch a movie or something. And I think that Mike will bring a healthier version of this than he might have earlier in his coaching career. And I also think.

[Logan Murdoch]

But pushing back on that. There were some reports out of Sacramento saying that some of the guys were burned out. Now it is Sacramento. Right. Like, there were other. Other factors, but there were even rumblings during the postseason. I would say when they went, it went in 2023. Like, yo, like, I remember Malik Monk said something. He said that Mike Brown wants to be perfect in an imperfect world. Right. And that kind of, like, that was something that was percolating. So, like, I'm not saying that he hasn't, you know, gotten softer around the edges, but what I will say is, like, it's still there.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah.

[Logan Murdoch]

You know, it's. Even for a young team, it was still there after not even two years.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah. Offensively, he's going to, I think, be more innovative than Tibbs was. And I think the Knicks could stand to diversify their offense a bit. They got stale at times. They got bogged down in ISO ball with Brunson. Mikhail Bridges, as we saw when Brunson was out, can still do some things with the ball in his hands. Mikhail Bridges, by the way, on my flight from New York last night, not. Not very incognito. Everybody's like. Like, on the, like, rental card or no, The. On the little, the little train taking you from the gate to baggage claim. People like, that's Miguel Bridges, like, taking trade. Yeah.

[Logan Murdoch]

It's economical. You guys are in first class together.

[Howard Beck]

No, teeter bro.

[Cliff Augustine]

Teeter bro.

[Howard Beck]

Bridges can do some things with the ball in his hands. You can run the offense through cat at times. They could have stood to do more of that, and I think they will under Mike Brown. And I think that that will ease the burden on Brunson, keep him fresher, keep, keep the offense, especially in late game situations in playoffs, a little bit less easy to defend. Points might be a little easier to come by. And this is a professional, veteran team. Like the. To the extent that Logan, you're saying the Kings might have like, chafed a little bit under him. Like, this is a professional team. He's not going to have to like, ride them that hard. Like, no one's working harder than like Jalen Brunson and Josh Hart to begin with. So I think it's fine. Like, you know, did they need to fire Tibbs? Is Mike Brown up to you? I don't, I don't, I'm not, I don't care about that part anymore. I said on Zach's pot earlier in the week, like, I don't think it was like, well, you, you specifically fired Tibbs in order to hire Mike Brown. They, they, they chased 10 other people. It's more about like, did you have a justification to fire Tibbs? That's one question. Then the next one is who do you need now that you have a vacancy? Like, who. Who fits? I think Mike Brown's a good choice. I think Taylor Jenkins would have been a good choice.

[Logan Murdoch]

What about Jason Kidd?

[Howard Beck]

He was under contract. It's irrelevant.

[Logan Murdoch]

I didn't matter.

[Howard Beck]

I'm trying to dodge the question. Logan, stop it. Anyway, I'm going over on the 52 and a half, especially in a weak year for the east when, when I think the Knicks and Cleveland are the two top teams. Like, clearly, for sure.

[Logan Murdoch]

Also one other thing, they got to get that defense in order in New York. I know they play really well in spurs during the postseason. Mike Brown is a defensive savant, although he is coming off a tenure with the Kings when they very much underperformed defensively and he needs to bounce back with this Knicks team, the Knicks.

[Howard Beck]

Also, I know this season, presumably Mitchell Robinson, which will help out their defensive numbers too.

[D]

So this message is a paid partnership with Apple Card. There's one thing I'm going to make sure I pack for my summer vacation. It's my Apple Card. I can earn up to 3% daily cash back on every purchase, including fuel for my car and booking places to stay. Plus, I don't have to worry about fees, including foreign transaction fees, which is perfect when I'm planning to travel abroad. To get an Apple Card for your summer travels, apply on the Wallet app on your iPhone today. Subject to credit approval. Apple Card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA, Salt Lake City Branch. Variable APRs for Apple Card range from 18.24% to 28.49% based on creditworthiness rates as of January 1, 2025. Terms and [e-mail] this episode is brought to you by Viori. Look, I'm not a big let's hype up workout clothes guy, but Vuori, I gotta say, total game changer. Been wearing a lot. If you see me power walking around Los Angeles, probably gonna see me wearing some Vuori Sunday performance joggers that they have. It's made with four way performance stretch fabric, one of the most comfortable things you own. You will wear them everywhere, I promise. All you have to do is go to Vuori.com Simmons and you get 20% off your first purchase with Vuori. V-U-O-R-I.com Simmons. Enjoy. Free shipping on all US orders over $75, plus free returns. Exclusions apply. Visit the website for full terms and conditions.

[Howard Beck]

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[Logan Murdoch]

Pick up.

[Howard Beck]

Times vary, fees may apply.

[Logan Murdoch]

Cliff, what's next?

[Cliff Augustine]

What's next is the West.

[Logan Murdoch]

Oh, you don't want to go up. You don't want to go up to. You don't want to go up I 95 real quick to Amtrak.

[Cliff Augustine]

You mean down 95.

[Logan Murdoch]

Whatever. Amtrak I took Amtrak from. From New York.

[Cliff Augustine]

D.C. like, what do you. What do you mean? Like, that's what team you want to go to. Like. I don't.

[Logan Murdoch]

No, I thought he was gonna go to this. The Sixers.

[Cliff Augustine]

You know, D.C. right down to 95. You going to D.C. is that what you talking about?

[Logan Murdoch]

You don't want to do the Sixers?

[Cliff Augustine]

Nah, man, let's Go all west, man.

[Logan Murdoch]

The who? You don't want to do this.

[Howard Beck]

Sixers cliffs like Jersey Shore. We go to the Jersey Shore. Yeah, Jersey Shore.

[Logan Murdoch]

You don't want to talk about the Blue Coats.

[Cliff Augustine]

I don't be in Delaware, bro. Okay, let's talk about the Los Angeles Lakers.

[Logan Murdoch]

I heard Delaware was popping. Hold on. I heard Delaware was popping.

[Cliff Augustine]

Who told you that?

[Logan Murdoch]

You?

[Cliff Augustine]

I didn't say that.

[Logan Murdoch]

I was just playing. I'm just.

[Cliff Augustine]

How about this? You know what Delaware is good for? You know what Delaware is good for?

[Logan Murdoch]

Driving through.

[Cliff Augustine]

Driving through. It's a small state, so it's very good to just drive through Delaware.

[Howard Beck]

And I'm sure they got a great Wawa.

[Cliff Augustine]

Oh, yeah, yeah, they got the gas. Wawas plush while.

[Logan Murdoch]

You know what I mean, too, don't they? That. You know, A lot of people go to court in Delaware. Yo.

[Cliff Augustine]

All right. Shout out to Wilmington, man. Shout out to my folks in Wilmington. Let's get to the Los Angeles Lakers.

[Howard Beck]

Let's zip right past the Sixers.

[Cliff Augustine]

The Los Angeles Lakers, 40.

[Howard Beck]

We're not doing all 30 teams, but we do have to hit the Sixers before.

[Cliff Augustine]

All right, we go. When we go back east. How we go back east, we'll get. We'll get to the Sixers. The Los Angeles lakers are at 48 and a half wins. They're over. Is set at 48 and a half wins of minus 118. They're under, obviously, would be minus 112. So their odds to win over is a little bit higher. So do we feel the Los Angeles lakers will win 48 and a half. They won, for reference, 50 games last season. The Los Angeles Lakers. The Luca Los Angeles Lakers. Notice I didn't say LeBron because it's Lucas team, so.

[Howard Beck]

You just said it.

[Logan Murdoch]

I just.

[Cliff Augustine]

I said LeBron. I mean, because it's really Lucas Lakers. But I mean, LeBron and Lagoat and whatever.

[Howard Beck]

Logan, how you. How you feeling about the Dorian Finney Smith to deandre Ayton. Swap.

[Logan Murdoch]

Shout out Bill Duffy, man. That's what I'll say. Shout out Bill Duffy. Who was running.

[Cliff Augustine]

Yo, that was the most blank.

[Logan Murdoch]

You said. What?

[Cliff Augustine]

That was the most blank expression.

[Logan Murdoch]

But that. That being said, man, that is.

[Cliff Augustine]

We got Bronnie. No, no, you got Bronnie. Ronnie was hooping last night.

[Logan Murdoch]

He was hooping. Hey, hey, not for nothing, he was hooping. He was hooping. He had a little dunk in the bay, too. I. Listen, I have slandered enough. I don't want the Illuminati on my ass.

[Howard Beck]

I just wanna, I just wanna. I just want to say this. I did watch as much of that game between the Lakers and Mavs summer league teams featuring Cooper Flag on my tiny ass TV on the back of the Delta seat last night on the flight out here, shout out to the league and their broadcast partner for being able to shamelessly present that game as like some kind of massive event. Because it was Bronnie James, a. A second round pick from a year ago versus Cooper Flag, the number one fucking pick and who's supposed to be like a generational star. And that was the matchup. And they, and they sold it. They sold it like props to everybody involved. Tremendous, incredible. Second, second secondary market tickets were going for like thousands of dollars or something. Whatever. People are lining up at 5am Like, I get it on the Cooper Flag side of it, and this is not slandering Bronny James at all, who I hope has a great career, but like, the idea that this was Bronnie James versus Cooper Flag was like, actually kind of one.

[Logan Murdoch]

It wasn't even the worst game of the night then. Summer league games suck. San Antonio, Utah game was just San Antonio.

[Howard Beck]

Was it San Antonio Philly?

[Logan Murdoch]

Was it San Antonio, Philly? Oh, yeah, the San Antonio Philly game. It was a San Antonio Philly. Excuse me. Sorry.

[Cliff Augustine]

Apologize until VJ come back. I'm not watching.

[Logan Murdoch]

I put that on studio. I'm watching the studio now. I'm binge watching the studio. I put that on Apple TV so fast after I watched, I saw two seconds of that San Antonio game. Secondly, we'll. We'll eventually get to the Lakers. Josiah Johnson, you. You know I love you. You know I love you, but you need to stop with them damn Cooper Flag. Bronnie tweets. I saw what you said. I saw what you did. He did a screenshot of Jordan, like uninterestedly guarding a player on the meme and said it was Bronnie James versus Cooper Flag. Michael Jordan there being Bronnie and Cooper Flag being the guy he's guarding. Josiah, stop that. Stop it. Anyways, the Lakers, I'm taking. I want to take the under so bad. I want to take it so bad. But I can in good conscious take a team. I take the under on a team that has LeBron and Luke on it. I don't. I just. I, I can't do it. I don't think they. That they're gonna. I. If they're healthy, I think they're gonna figure it out. The deandre Aiden edition was. I saw him play against bigs, great bigs in the Western Conference in a playoff setting two years ago or three years ago. He got cooked. If you want to look at that. What happened in the 2023 postseason, the master class that Jokic put on him, be my guest, go watch YouTube for that. He has a lot to prove, and not only just from a defensive standpoint, but just from an overall reputation standpoint. He has not elevated any team he's really been on, unfortunately. And this is, this is. He's going to be a starting center for the Los Angeles Lakers. And the scrutiny that comes with that is going to be immense. And I want to see what he does with that kind of pressure and, you know, we'll see what happens. What do you think? You think Luke is going to sign that extension? I think that was a really great discussion on Hoop Collective about that. You guys should go check that out with Tim Bond, Timpson and McMahon and Windhorse. They did a great job.

[Howard Beck]

And wasn't the conclusion that there's no real incentive to do it right now?

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah, but they were. But I think Windhorse made the, the partner. He made the case of like the partnership thing and that, you know, we're in a marriage. I thought that was interesting too. Right. Like, I think on one hand I would want Luca to lock in because the. I get the pressure standpoint. Right. I get it. But front offices historically don't do great under duress. Right. When they know that a, a player could leave in two years, they're just. They do. Look at LeBron's first part time in Cleveland. Right. Look at. There's a myriad of, of, of examples of this where front offices kind of mortgage their future and don't make smart decisions when a player has them over the barrel like that. So I do see the partnership part of it. Like, if he does a two year, like, I am on board with that, but we'll see.

[Howard Beck]

So I'm tempted to go under on vibes alone here. Right.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah.

[Howard Beck]

Rich Paul puts out the statement I wrote about this earlier in the week on the ringer.com Rich Paul puts out the statement where it's kind of like, yeah, we're not asking for a trade, but LeBron's not quite sure, you know, if you're really prioritizing him anymore. We know you have to prioritize, prioritize, Luka. But hey, you know, we're kind of toward the end here and LeBron really kind of wants to be able to win a championship. Like, if nothing else, you could you could pretty well read into that statement that he's not happy with the state of affairs. And so he's. LeBron's on a one year deal. Forget all the trade stuff. He's not getting traded. He's not getting bought out. He's there.

[Logan Murdoch]

He's going to retire a Laker bro. Like he was posturing right now. I don't.

[Howard Beck]

But, but the. They lost Dorian Finney Smith, who's a very good player, and replaced him effectively with deandre Ayton, who's a okay player who got bought out by a losing team. They added Jake Laravia too. So okay, fine, like they're like, fine. But like what have they done in the off season when they got Luka? My first thought was you've taken a step back, at least in some regard because you lost some depth and you lost a really great big in Anthony Davis and you need time now to backfill and to restructure around your new core of Luca and LeBron. And I thought, okay, they got the off season to do that and here we are and all they've done is lose Dorian Finney Smith and replace him with deandre Ayton. Like I, I, this is not Luca's.

[Logan Murdoch]

Best friend in the league. You just try, you just let him go and on a deal and I get another thing. Like there's all these rumblings of hey, we're gonna use cap space in, in two years. Right?

[Howard Beck]

Right.

[Logan Murdoch]

You could have if, if what's one is a crockadoodoo. Because like if you're competing every year, you can't take years for granted in a, in a, with a guy like Luca, you just can't do it. Right? No, that's number one. And number two, you could have signed Dorian Ph Smith to, if that was your goal, to a two year deal, give him his bread.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah, I, I did something. Did not understand that part of it at all. So I don't like the vibes. I don't like losing Dorian Finney Smith, which is not going to make Luca happy, not doing much to improve the roster at all, which doesn't make LeBron happy playing this kind of more of a long game. It seems like we don't know what kind of shape Luca will come in. Deandre Ayton, if we can believe him, is saying that Lucas in incredible shape. That if so that's great.

[Logan Murdoch]

Have you seen the pictures from Europe? He looks great.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah, I have not. I have not. So that's great. Like that's, you know, look, if that was if that was the biggest concern the Dallas Mavericks had. And. And Luca decides to take better care of himself now. Nelly. Great, but, like, they got smoked by the Wolves in the first round in five games, and I just don't see there's any improvement other than they get a full season of Luka and maybe a full season of Luka in better shape. Other than that, what is the. And LeBron's turning 41 in December. Where's. Where's the improvement? Based on changes from last season to this season, other than what I just listed, there's just not a lot to go on. And then you've got, like I said, just, like, bad vibes. So I'm taking the under.

[Logan Murdoch]

Big year for Rob Polinka, because new ownership there could. A year from now, we could be talking about a whole revamped a front office for the. For the Lakers. So. All right, what's next? We got time, man.

[Cliff Augustine]

Just.

[Logan Murdoch]

Cliff, just give us a some time.

[Cliff Augustine]

Eventually coming up for LeBron James.

[Logan Murdoch]

Where you got to go, Howard? Where you gotta go?

[Howard Beck]

I gotta get to the gym. Gotta get to Thomas and Mac Cox pavilion. Summer league. Summer league. Fantastic.

[Logan Murdoch]

When's the first game?

[Howard Beck]

When is the first?

[Logan Murdoch]

It's like 12:30.

[Howard Beck]

There's. There's something else going on.

[Logan Murdoch]

Oh, okay. All right. All right.

[Howard Beck]

I don't come out here without an agenda, Logan. I come out here with, like, I got.

[Logan Murdoch]

I got people, I got babies to.

[Howard Beck]

Kiss and hands to shake.

[Logan Murdoch]

All right, whatever. Anyway, go ahead, Cliff.

[Cliff Augustine]

All right, let's go back out east to Logan's favorite team that he wants to talk about so badly. I don't know why Philadelphia 76.

[Logan Murdoch]

Why don't you want to talk about your favorite team?

[Cliff Augustine]

That's not. How you know that's my favorite team, first of all, like, because I don't.

[Logan Murdoch]

Know the Sixers poster you have above Tupac in the background.

[Cliff Augustine]

All right, sorry. I need to take that. I need to take it.

[Logan Murdoch]

I need to take it down.

[Howard Beck]

It's July. This is when everybody's supposed to be optimistic, Cliff. Everybody's 0 and 0. Everyone's got championship dreams. Come on, man.

[Cliff Augustine]

Right now. Look, I'm optimistic here, too.

[Howard Beck]

Ben Simmons is a free agent. Y' all can bring him back.

[Cliff Augustine]

All right, man took it too far. Dover is 43 and a half. The under is also, well, obviously 43 and a half. But the odds are at minus 114 for both. So therefore, they think this could go either way for the Sixers. The odds makers believe 43 and a half. They won 24 games last season. Philadelphia 76ers, folks.

[Howard Beck]

It'S just, like, silently laughing. That's not a take. Laughing is not a take.

[Logan Murdoch]

Oh, you just said bad vibes, right? You talked about bad vibes with Lakers. Like, that makes. Oh, man. This is like the. The. How the bad vibes in Philly are, like, reminiscent of how it smelled during the sanitation strike and in Philly over the. Over the last couple of weeks, it's pretty terrible, man. Wow. I'm not.

[Howard Beck]

Good Lord.

[Logan Murdoch]

I'm not optimistic about this right now. We know how the program feels about Paul George. Joel Embiid is just sad, man. At least. At least you guys got Tyrese Maxey, who you guys can, you know, galvanize, and McCain is good. I'm gonna go under, bro. Let's say, like, 32 wins. Oh, Jesus. Like, 32 wins, bro.

[Cliff Augustine]

That would be disrespectful. Now.

[Logan Murdoch]

You don't even like the team.

[Cliff Augustine]

I. Look, I mean, all right, you better.

[Logan Murdoch]

Root for Saquon this year.

[Cliff Augustine]

You already know that's happening.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah, yeah, but.

[Cliff Augustine]

All right, look, look. 32 and a half. Look, here's the number one. Here's the problem with the Sixers, right? Every year, it's always, if healthy. And I'm so sick of hearing that. If healthy, if healthy, if healthy. But my head always tells me, all right, if healthy, this team is actually pretty solid. But on the other end, it's like, I don't know how healthy this team could actually be, which freaks me out. So I don't know. I tethered the line with this. I would say if healthy, they should definitely win over 43 and a half games.

[Logan Murdoch]

But what are you picking, though? What is your pick?

[Cliff Augustine]

What do you mean?

[Logan Murdoch]

Are you over? Under, you know, all right, you know.

[Cliff Augustine]

Why I'm going to take the over? I'm going to take the over because I'm going to rely with the foundation that Embiid and Paul George will remain relatively healthy throughout the season. So I'll take the 43 and a half if they're relatively healthy, and the east is wide open.

[Howard Beck]

So, yeah, yeah, I think this is a case where perceptions and not recency bias, but just recency experience has kind of put this permanent cloud where it is fogged up everybody's perceptions of the Sixers. Everybody's forgotten about how dominant they actually can be and how dominant Joel Embiid is. Asterisk when healthy and. And it. And. But Joel Embiid's not 38. He's 30. 30, 31.

[Cliff Augustine]

Like he's 31.

[Howard Beck]

We. We have jumped too quickly to the idea that he will just never be the same again, as if there's some chronic thing or as if he went through, as if he blew out his Achilles or something. I don't think we're there yet. I get that. The last season and a half, two seasons have been injury marred, starting with Joel Embiid. And then everything cascades from there. He's. He's gone through another knee surgery to try to clean up whatever was not cleaned up the last time. I'm gonna go from a working assumption, and it may bite my. Bite me in the ass, but it's July 11th, so I'm gonna feel safe in saying this now. We may see something different in October when these guys are in camp, but as of July 11, on the presumption that surgery worked. By the way, never in the history of NBA surgeries has a surgery not been successful. Just check the press releases. They've all been successful. If Joel Embiid, if that. If whatever it was is finally cleaned up, Joel Embiid's back to being, at minimum, a top 10 player for however many games. I mean, you want to say, oh, he's going to get hurt again. We don't know that. I get it. I get the pessimism. I get the belief that he will just never stay healthy. I get it. I get it. I get it. It's okay to work from assumption of. At 31 years old on a knee surgery. Again, not some. This is a reconstructive stuff. This wasn't like an acl. This wasn't anything traumatic. He just has to be himself again. And if he's a top 10 player, I'll say it right now, the Sixers are top four in the east because partially, again, the east is a wasteland. And Joel Embiid is one of the best players in the Eastern Conference when healthy. And him healthy means Paul George is that much better because it ain't all on him. Tyrese Maxey takes another step. Full season of Jared McCain. See what Vijay Edgar brings to the table. I think they probably end up keeping Quentin Grimes. We'll see where the restricted free agency stuff goes. And, you know, maybe Daryl's got another move up his sleeve, but I'm going to bank on the idea that Embiid is healthy for enough of the season for them to be who they've been in better times. Their top four in the East, I'm taking the over.

[Logan Murdoch]

If it was a fifth, we'd always. We'd all be like cliff in New York, you know.

[Cliff Augustine]

Wait, what do I mean? Like what do I be like in New York, bro?

[Logan Murdoch]

What you be like in New York? Everybody in Brooklyn. All. All the cliff spotters of Brooklyn tap in. Anyways, what's the next one? We got to go to a neck. We gotta go to another team.

[Cliff Augustine]

Let's get to the Bay. Slow motion with the potion in the ocean. Whatever Logan likes to say.

[Logan Murdoch]

Slow motion with the poster trying to get to the ocean.

[Cliff Augustine]

The Golden State Warriors 46 and a half their unders has the same odds number as well at minus 114. So it could go either way according to the odds makers. And last season The warriors won 48 games. How are we feeling about the Golden State warriors this upcoming season?

[Logan Murdoch]

I don't feel that good about this team, but 46 is just like that's kind of. You're not getting to the playing like with 46 wins, I think they at least get to that. So I guess I have to take.

[Howard Beck]

So 46 and a half makes them the seventh ranked team in the, in the west based on over unders. Right. So that's right at the top of the, of the play into to your point.

[Logan Murdoch]

Okay, so I, I and last year.

[Cliff Augustine]

Two teams in a play in were Dallas and the Kings who had 39 and 40 wins collect each.

[Logan Murdoch]

I just, I'm just. The warriors are just yuck. Just absolutely yuck. Wow. I mean I, this is what I think about the warriors right now, man. I think that. Well, I know that they're in a holding pattern because they can't get a deal done with Kaminga, which is just. They're trying to do a trade they should have did three years ago. And we don't have to get into all the front office stuff. But I just think that next year they don't have, they don't have a. I mean, I guess they're going to have Al Horford. Like that's like the wink wink, he's coming. But we got to just get this Kaminga thing done. Like he's going to be here. That's your starting center now. Right. And I know that he is like somehow older than Howard and still like doing work, but you really want to, do you really do you really want to trust him for 82 games? And I know that the Celtics did a really good job last year of rationing his minutes and getting him fresh for the postseason, but he's not going to have that luxury in the Bay Area. It's going to be him is starting center, and I think the backup center is Draymond. Right. This team is so old, and you're gonna. You're not. You can't trust Jimmy butler to play 82 games, right? Like, he's gonna play like, what, 50 to 60. Steph's gonna have to take. You're back at square one that you've been every year since Durant has been gone, right? Where you're gonna just put so much of the offensive load on Steph, in his orbit, and he's only getting older. Yeah. I think I might have just talked myself into the under, but I'm still gonna go the over because so I can, you know, go outside and, you know, not get yelled at by weird warriors fans.

[Howard Beck]

All right, so not by E40. Yeah.

[Logan Murdoch]

No. Shout out to the. Hey, man. Shout out to the homie. 40 man. Shout out to Uncle Water. He know the vibes. He. He ain't tripping off of that. He know the truth.

[Howard Beck]

I'm not going to say that them going 23 and 7 with Jimmy, we would just like, extrapolate, project out and say, like, ah, they're great. They'll be fine. Because, yeah, small sample.

[Logan Murdoch]

And he didn't play most of the season in Miami. He was very fresh.

[Howard Beck]

He was very fresh. And. And I agree with you, like, that he's probably playing 60 to 65 games because that's been the pattern for the last several years. He usually gets banged up at some point along the way. There's a lot of health, age, fatigue, volatility with this team. Right. Curry, Butler, Draymond, But. And then. And then Al Horford on top of it, most likely. It seems they want to bring back the Anthony Melton coming off. Oh, it was the ACL, right. They're.

[Logan Murdoch]

They're. Are you gonna sign a 10 day to this team, Howard?

[Howard Beck]

I think I'm too old even for them. Bradley Beal, apparently, like, they're. They're in the Bradley Beal thing. Maybe if that buyout ever happens. Like, let's. Let's face it, the Kaminga thing is the key part of the whole entire. Like the entire offseason hinges on the Kaminga thing, right? They're either bringing him back, in which case they're probably not all that happy of having him back. And he's not that happy to be back, and they still got to figure this thing out. And he doesn't really fit next to Jimmy. And he doesn't really fit in. Incurs offense like a sign and trade involving Kuminga and what it may bring back is the whole off season now, it feels like, because if you. They did listen, they did a great job last year in cashing out on Clay and turning him into multiple pieces that actually were contributors and, and gave them some depth and gave them some youth and gave them some shooting. I think if they can find the right deal with Kuminga in a sign and trade. It's still early. It's July 11th. Like, there's a lot of summer left and all the restricted free agents, Giddy, Kuminga, Grimes, like, these guys are all still just in a holding pattern because restrictive free agency is tough and even tougher now in today's NBA. That's the whole thing. That is the whole thing. What do you get back for Kuminga? Does it solve some of the problems Logan that you just outlined? Do you get a little younger? Do you get another serviceable big so that you don't have to play Al Horford 30 minutes a night? Because you just can't do that. So there's a, like, there's a big ass asterisk on this thing. Like their, their off season is incomplete. If we were doing the grades thing, we'd put incomplete. We don't know where this lands, but I'm still going to be bullish on Curry, Butler, Draymond, and yeah, they're all going to miss some time, but I'm taking the over. They won 48 last year with only a partial season from Jimmy Butler. I'm, I'm, I'm saying over on the 46 and a half. I think they're, they're in the mix for being top four or five in the West. In the mix. Four. I didn't say they're going to land there, but they, but it all depends on the community.

[Logan Murdoch]

Howard, Howard, Howard. Moving on by these warriors, man, you'd be blinded by these warriors, dog. They come and they have their brilliant game in Brooklyn once a year, and that was awesome. And you have hard eyes for them. That happens, dog. But I have to watch the fucking Tuesday in January at Chase where they play so uninspired. And like, Curry goes 6 of 25. Like, this is the thing with. This is the last thing I'll say about the warriors, man. This off season is such a microcosm of the last, I'd say four or five years where they always try to kick the can down the road.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah.

[Logan Murdoch]

And in the name of, like, continuity. And also I think this summer is like, we're, it's, we're finally seeing the front Office power struggle in real time. Right? Because Laker just doesn't want to let go of Kaminga. And meanwhile, this is why I don't think that their off season is going to be like that great. Because who are they going to get? Miles Turner's already with a new team with a new deal, right? Like, all the players that they could get or that they would want to get right now that could really help them have already been dealt.

[Howard Beck]

But that was free agency. Like, there's. There are other teams that also have their own issues to deal with right now. Somebody out there wants it. Somebody out there wants Jonathan coming in a sign and trade and what are they willing to give up? Like, I don't know the answer to these questions. None of us do.

[Logan Murdoch]

But that's, but that's my thing though, right? Like because of this Kaminga thing. Like, we just saw Pascal Siakam help a team get to the finals. You know who like Pascal Siakam was linked to? It was linked to the Warriors a couple of years ago. But like they're. They don't want to give up Kaminga. Like the, the. This is the thing and the reason why the warriors, it's one player. And I feel like I'm triggering a lot of people and I'm really sorry, but this is the facts. They have fumbled a lot of things because of this stuff that's going on in the front office and the power struggle that's happening in that front office. And they're going to have to figure that out not just for the next two seasons with Steph there, but like when Steph's gone. So it's an annoying. Just state of affairs in Golden State.

[Howard Beck]

We should go speed round so I can get moving here.

[Logan Murdoch]

Okay, sorry, sorry.

[Cliff Augustine]

All right. Let's get Howard moving here because Howard has so many great things to do, huh? Out in Vegas. Yeah, let's. Let's go to the regular. Let's go to.

[Logan Murdoch]

Let's go hang out. It's going to be. Hey, man, he's missing the lunch with Sean Powell and BT right now. Okay? We got a fucking. We got. We gotta get him out of here.

[Howard Beck]

That was breakfast, man. Lunch is a whole thing.

[Cliff Augustine]

Howard's missing the slots. That's what Howard's missing, the slots. Anyways, let's get to the top dog in the East. Last year by record, the Cleveland Cavaliers. Their over is at 56 and a half at minus 112. Last season, the Cleveland Cavaliers won 64 games.

[Logan Murdoch]

How you feel about the Cleveland Cavaliers over. But they're going to disappoint us, Howard.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah, I think that's right. Over 56 and a half like that, that's way too low for a team that won 64 games and brings back everybody. They added Lonzo Ball, so they got yet another playmaker off the bench there. I like that they may lose Ty Jerome. They still haven't actually lost Ty Jerome. Right. I think. I think he's still in limbo. You expect another leap from Garland and Mobley? I there. Yeah. And again, east is a wasteland. I hit the over.

[Cliff Augustine]

There we go. Let's go to the champions, the Oklahoma City Thunder. Their record is set at 62 and a half for the over at minus 122. The under is at 62 and a half. So Vegas really believes that they'll get that over Easy. They had 68 wins last year. Do the Thunder do it again?

[Logan Murdoch]

They're not getting 62. I think that's just a lot to ask right now. I mean, maybe they will. Maybe they will. They're young and they will play hard. But, like, I'm just thinking about the championship fatigue and trying to go back to back. I think they'll be right back in the mix for another finals run. But I just. I'm take. Take the under. All right. Go ahead, Howard.

[Howard Beck]

I'm going over. You know what they remind me of? You're going to love this, Logan. They remind me of the 2015 warriors when they won the championship in that young group that is super professional. And like, The warriors won 73 games after winning a championship. Like, that never happens. Teams usually have a championship hangover. They get a little complacent, happy with them. Like, there's nothing about this Thunder team that strikes me as like, guys who are going to get complacent or happy with themselves. Like, this is like, super professional, kind of pretty humble for. For a championship team. Even on their way to it. And through it, like, I just. They added nobody of note. They lost. Nobody of note. They. Everybody got massive extensions. They're all going to be happy. But I just think that this team is so professional in the way they approach the game that dipping from 68 down below 62 seems almost insulting. I'll take the over.

[Cliff Augustine]

Okay. All righty. Let's go back east to the Orlando Magic. The Orlando Magic, they're over set at 50 and a half at minus 128. The under for that would be at minus 104. So Vegas truly, truly believes that they would hit that over 50 and a half for reference. The Magic won 41 games last year. The record was 500.

[Logan Murdoch]

The Orlando under taken under unless Paolo turns in like you know, six year, six year LeBron. Like I just, I don't like the roster construction. Not with it, you know.

[Howard Beck]

Who's taking the over? Michael Pina.

[Logan Murdoch]

Oh, okay. Well then I'm right. Cool. That's great. Cool. That makes me real, real confident in my.

[Howard Beck]

I'm gonna, I'm gonna go under just to make Peanut mad.

[Logan Murdoch]

That is. That's not very hard. By the way.

[Howard Beck]

I, I like. He loves the Magic. I love the, the Desmond Bane and Tyus Jones edition. Like those are, those are good additions. I still don't think that they've got enough of a strong hand guiding this offense to get the most out of Palo and Franz and make this a more. This was the 27th ranks. Your two best players are offensive players, Franz and Paolo and they were the 27th ranked offense. I know they had a bunch of injuries too last season, like whatever. But they have not been great with that one two punch efficiency wise since they got together. So they got to stay healthy. They got to hope that Tyus Jones and Desmond Bain solve all their playmaking, organizing type issues and creating better shots. I think they're going to be better. I don't think they're going to be top three in the east with a win total over 50. So I'll take the under.

[Cliff Augustine]

Okay, let's go back west. The Minnesota Timberwolves and Ant Man. The Timberwolves over set at 50 and a half at minus 102. The under for that would be at minus 130. Wow, this is a nice little stark difference there. For reference though, Timberwolves won 49 games last year. Do they hit over 50 and a half wins this season?

[Logan Murdoch]

I'll take the over. I'll take you over. Not mad at it.

[Howard Beck]

They, they, they lost Nikhil Alexander, Walker. They didn't add anybody.

[Logan Murdoch]

I, I'm putting a lot on Ant right now. He said he was gonna work as hard as it.

[Howard Beck]

They still don't have an alternative to Mike Conley Jr. At point. Like I mean you, you talk about old like love Mike Conley but like there's just not enough playmaking and depth there. Can Rob Dillingham grow into some kind of a backup point guard role in year two like the Randall Reed.

[Logan Murdoch]

You know what's crazy though, like the thing that's really messed them up is like they went all in around Ant. I think a little too early. Right where they make that whereas like the Rudy trade and they trade all those picks. So they, that's what's the tough. It's making. It's really making team building hard for them. And so you're kind of seeing the fruits of that. But I, I put my chips in on Ant. Now. Does that mean that they're going to make a deep playoff run? I don't think so. But like he said he was going to work the hardest. He did this off season and I want to see the next step that he makes and I believe in. So I'm going to take and take a the over. But not like I'm not saying 58 is 50, you know, so like I can see them making 51, winning 51 games.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah, you're. Yeah, you're. You're giving them like a half win over the over under and I'm probably shorting them a half win to go under. Like it's. It's that close and. Yeah. And the fact is, look like the west after you get past the top three. There's so much variability from everybody else, like Houston and Denver on Oklahoma's tail. Right. But then Minnesota, Lakers, Clippers, we haven't talked about yet. Warriors surging spurs, the Mavericks with whatever. D' Angelo Russell.

[Logan Murdoch]

Damn, we got hella teams. Like how many teams.

[Howard Beck]

We're not doing all these. We're not doing all these. We're just not. I got to get out of here. I'm just saying like the, the like 4 through 10, all the way down to Memphis. Like there's, there's. Every single one of those teams has a very wide range of outcomes.

[Cliff Augustine]

All right, let's do a couple more real quick before we get out of Howard, out of here. Let's go to my favorite city that I've never been to, Detroit basketball. The Pistons. They're overset.

[Logan Murdoch]

Everybody in the three. One three.

[Cliff Augustine]

They're over. They're over.

[Howard Beck]

It's gonna kill me every time they're over.

[Cliff Augustine]

Under set at 44 and a half. Oh, that over is minus 130. The under is at minus 102. Looks like Vegas loves Detroit to hit that over mark. For Reference, they hit 44 games last season. The Pistons hit the over on this.

[Logan Murdoch]

No. Wow.

[Howard Beck]

Logan just staring icily ahead. I. It's. It's funny because, you know, normally when a team has a breakthrough season, odds makers, fans, all of us, everybody's just like all in on a team. And it feels like maybe it's because of some of the losses in the off season here so far, but like they win 44 games and the over under is 44 and a half and they're only pegged as the fifth best team in the east by over under behind Atlanta and Orlando. I feel like they're getting shorted here and I don't know if that's because they lost Schroeder and Hardaway Jr. And Malik Beasley with his gambling investigation. They added Caris Lavert and Duncan Robinson. Like I think they're going to be fine and I think, you know, Jaden Ivey comes back and, and I'm not sure about the Jaden Ivey Katie Cunningham fit but still that's a talent upgrade when you get Ivy back and Cunningham's going to keep improving I think and he's already awesome. I'm going over I think, I think I'm puzzled by how short they're. They're shorted they're getting here.

[Cliff Augustine]

Let's get back to Los Angeles and the Clippers. The Clippers over set at 47 and a half at minus 120. The under is set at minus 110. The Los Angeles Clippers for reference won 50 games last season. Do they eclipse the over at 47 and a half at minus one hundred and twenty?

[Logan Murdoch]

I don't know man. Like it depends on if they get Brad Bill or not. I mean that Norm Powell loss is a. I get why they did it but it's still a loss nonetheless. Especially if you're. If Kawhi doesn't play as many games as you would want him to. That being said, like James Harden, like say what you want about him in the postseason. Played really well during the regular season and really carried that offense. I know Norm Powell had a lot to do do with that in terms of a number two. But I say all to say I don't know but I think I'll, I think I'll take Dover.

[Howard Beck]

I'm going.

[Logan Murdoch]

I think they're a well coached team. I think that they're just one of those teams that plays hard and lingers are well coached. Tyler does a great job. He can get 50 win. He can make teams overachieve in a way that not a lot of coaches can. So I'm gonna just take the over just off institution.

[Howard Beck]

I'll go over just based on this. Like they won 50 games and only got like a third of a season from Kawhi and they may only get a third of a season from him again but we already know they can survive that. So if they get 50% or 60% of a season From Kawhi, they're that much better. Also added John Collins, added Brook Lopez. I think they're getting Bradley Beal. They may get Chris Paul, too. There's great depth there. And as you said, like, Tyloo is the master of just, like, putting the pieces together. So I'll go over on the clips.

[Cliff Augustine]

Let's do two more teams to get Howard out of here. Back to the east we go. And that is the Milwaukee Bucks. They're over under a set of 42 and a half. The over is at minus 128. The under is at minus 104. So Vegas believes that Milwaukee will hit that over. How we feeling, guys?

[Logan Murdoch]

I think I'm feeling like Cliff might be undercover degenerate, but.

[Cliff Augustine]

Shout out to Fandor, man. Shout out to fandom.

[Logan Murdoch]

I think. I think I'm a. I think I'm gonna take the. The slight over just because I respect Giannis, but, like, who's gonna play their point? Who gonna be their point guard? Kevin Porter Jr. Oh, God. This is what we meant, Giannis, when we said, like, you should leave, you know, like, we were. This is what you're coming back to, and it's no shade. Like, it felt like the end of the road, and this is what it was, and you're gonna. You thought she was mad last year.

[Howard Beck]

I.

[Logan Murdoch]

This is tough.

[Howard Beck]

My theory about them. I said this on Zach's podcast earlier in the week. My theory on. On the whole Yana situation, you know, like, three months ago, we were all like, oh, this is the summer he's gonna ask out. This is the summer he's gonna ask out, and he still hasn't. And it looks like, you know, they're just running it back. And they lose Brook Lopez. They replace them with Miles Turner, the Wave, and Stretch Dame. Nothing else really has happened. They don't have a point guard. Like, it's kind of a mess. And my thought was, like, they're going into the summer where Giannis is probably like, my. My speculative, you know, version of this is okay. He told them, like, I'm not playing the trade me card yet, but you're on the clock. Like, let's see what you can do. So they went out and they got Miles Turner. They bring on Gary Harris. Like, you know, these are not, like, massive needle movers, but there's still a lot of summer to go. Maybe there's another trade or two that John Horst can make, but, like, the clock is ticking loudly now. I feel like, because Giannis has made it pretty clear he wants to Win another title, at least be in contention. And they're not by win total by. By over. Under projections. They're rated as the eighth team in the east right now, which seems right to me. 42 and a half wins. I think I'm going. I think I'm going under. Despite Giannis being there, I don't like. Like the cloud that's hanging over this team. Now, pending other possible moves, I don't feel good about them. Okay.

[Cliff Augustine]

All right. For this last one, I'm gonna give you all three options. The San Antonio spurs, the Phoenix Suns, or the Miami Heat. Who are we choosing?

[Logan Murdoch]

I want to take the Spurs.

[Cliff Augustine]

Okay.

[Logan Murdoch]

I wanna. I wanna be positive. I want to end this on a positive note.

[Cliff Augustine]

See San Antonio.

[Logan Murdoch]

I'm glad we ain't talking about the Celtics. He was trying to get us fired. But.

[Howard Beck]

You know what the thing with the Celtics is? I'll just say this real quick. The more I looked at it, the worse I felt about them. And I was one. My initial thought had been, like, they can survive a year without Jason Tatum. Like, they got Jalen Brown. He's like, but. And then, like, no Drew Holiday, no Chris Esperzingas, no Horford. And I'm looking at the bench and I'm like, so, yeah, we don't even.

[Logan Murdoch]

Let's go with the. Let's go to. Let's.

[Howard Beck]

Let's be positive. Let's be happy.

[Logan Murdoch]

Let's be positive.

[Cliff Augustine]

Anthony Simons. Come on, guys. What are we doing? Luca Garza.

[Logan Murdoch]

Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Hey. Hey.

[Howard Beck]

There's center Rotator.

[Logan Murdoch]

Take his bubble out. Take his bubble out. He's done.

[Cliff Augustine]

I love to see the Celtics. First of all, I love to see the Celtics not be good. So no complaints for me.

[Logan Murdoch]

I'm gonna take the over, man. I think they're gonna win 50 games this year.

[Howard Beck]

Spurs are winning 50.

[Logan Murdoch]

They win 50 games.

[Cliff Augustine]

I didn't even give you the. I didn't even give you the game total.

[Logan Murdoch]

I got it right here. I got the.

[Cliff Augustine]

Can we. The audience needs to know what the game total is.

[Logan Murdoch]

Oh, sorry, sorry, sorry.

[Cliff Augustine]

It's at 43 and a half.

[Logan Murdoch]

I think Wimby's gonna take another leap. I. I think Stefan Castle is going to take another leap. I think they're gonna. I think they are going to be a factor in the Western Conference, man. Like, what. What are we doing? I think I literally love Dylan Harper's game. I think they're gonna be something. I think it's time. I'm really glad that they didn't trade For Kevin Durant or Giannis Adeta Kumbo, I think that they did it the right way.

[Howard Beck]

So 43 and a half would be a leap of about nine wins.

[Cliff Augustine]

Correct. But still they tanked last season as well. However, for reference.

[Howard Beck]

But still ranked as the well and well, technically, when we went out with the dbt, Wimby looking like he bought.

[Logan Murdoch]

To make another Wu Tang album. Dog like it's ready. We ready to go. It's time. I'm going 50 wins. I'm not sorry about that.

[Howard Beck]

So at 43 and a half, that would be the eighth best team in the west. But as I was saying a few minutes ago, like there's a whole lot of volatility through that stretch from like 4 through 10. Right. So there like there's so many different outcomes here. Possible. I agree with you. Logan Wembley's gonna take another leap. Stefan Castle is going to take a leap. We haven't. We're going to get a full season of the de' Aaron Fox Castle backcourt. Plus throw some Dylan Harper in there. You know, they, they bring in Luke Cornett. They traded for Kelly Olenek. There's just a lot of interesting pieces there. And at the, at the center of it all is, is Wemby and, and whatever. Wemby's partnership with Fox and Castle and I think there's a lot to like there. They still got Bissell and Johnson and Sohan. Like they're just interesting. They're young. They've got a generational talent. Yeah, I'm, I'm hitting the over two. I don't know that I'm going 50 yet, but I'll, I'll go on the, I'll hit the over there. They got a chance to crack the top six and at minimum they're at the top end of the plane.

[Logan Murdoch]

That's it. Right over. Under on how pissed Howard Beck is right, right now.

[Howard Beck]

How quickly I'm gonna have to take the shower before I go to the arena. There's gonna be like a two minute shower.

[Logan Murdoch]

The arena. Okay, man. All right. That's, that's, that's Howard Beck live from Vegas. I will see you there tomorrow. Quick programming note. We will be back on July 24th. That is 13 days from now. So that'll be our season finale episode. You know how we do on the anniversary episodes. We might have a little award show popping. We might do a little mail bag. Oh, it's gonna be. Maybe Roz is gonna be here. It's gonna be popping. Roger.

[Howard Beck]

Roger who? He's still in the rental car line.

[Logan Murdoch]

Oh, man. All the Sam.