← The Ringer NBA Show
The Ringer NBA Show
Can Denver Get on OKC’s Level? Plus, Two Amuse-Bouche Trades, and the Most Intriguing Teams at the Deadline.
01:22:39
Loading summary
Transcript325 lines
- [00:00]
A
This episode is brought to you by Firehouse Subs. Who just dropped a game changing sandwich. The French Dip. Literally one of my favorite sandwiches slash subs. Roast beef, caramelized onions, melty cheese, little freshly toasted garlic butter roll and the warm savory au jus. I've been eating these forever since I was living on the east coast in la. I think to me this versus the cheesesteak, the French dip, no contest, way better. And I think it's really because of the au jus. I don't know anybody who doesn't like au jus. An elite game day sub. Fun to order by the way, if you want it delivered. Because they usually put the au jus in the special little container you can pour it on. Knock yourself out. The French dip here for a limited time. I wish it was longer. Only at Firehouse Subs. Limited time at participating Firehouse subs restaurants while supplies last. This episode is brought to you by TaxAct. Like an expert coach, TaxAct offers step by step guidance and guaranteed accuracy when filing taxes. Get tips along the way. Add expert assist to talk to tax experts and let our experts do your taxes for you. With Expert full service, TaxAct helps you find the deductions and credits you deserve so you can get them over with. Visit taxact.com to learn more. Conditions apply. See taxact.com for details.
- [01:42]
B
Hello and welcome to Group Chat. I am Justin Varior and joining me, Rob Mahoney. J. Kyle, Manny. We have your requisite trade deadline slop on this podcast. We're going to talk about the most intriguing teams at the trade deadline. We're going to talk two trades, two of them that happened over the weekend later in this podcast episode. But we have NBA basketball to talk about. Rob, can you believe it?
- [02:08]
C
I can believe it. I don't like the way you portray our content though. You made it sound like we're filling up the trough for people and I like to think we aspire to something higher than that.
- [02:18]
B
There's like some bits and pieces from like a high end meal perhaps. Okay, the scraps of. Of a Michelin star restaurant, I would say. But scraps?
- [02:26]
D
Yes, we're like the. We're like the bear. We've got the fine dining in the front and you can go there if you want. But we also, we got some slop out back if you want to come back here. We try to service all parties.
- [02:36]
C
You know, it's a real mullet vibe. Fine dining in the front, slop out.
- [02:40]
B
Back, you know, that's right before we get into the conversation. Little switch up of the schedule. This Thursday is the trade deadline. And so we are going to record Thursday afternoon about an hour after the deadline passes. So no POD on Wednesday, POD on Thursday afternoon. So don't, don't fret. We'll be there for you just, just a day later. But to get to tonight's action, big old slate in the NBA. We had targeted this game as a pretty marquee one. It seemed like the NBA did as well, scheduling all these games on NBC. And Peacock, it's a rare event when I think half of a team's rotation plays these days. And so we still had something to look forward to in this game. Unfortunately, the Thunder in that third quarter just shot the lights out. And when Kayson Wallace shoots like Kyle Korver, Rob, I think it's really tough to combat everything else they bring to the table.
- [03:34]
C
You make it sound as if he's not Kyle Corver.
- [03:36]
B
I mean, not yet.
- [03:38]
C
I mean, look, for the last month he certainly has not been. And it's been a weird up and down shooting season from Kayson Wallace in general. But I feel like we have had a hundred versions of the like, oh, if the Thunder don't make their threes, they're beatable conversation. And the unsaid part of that conversation is if they do make their threes, you're kind of fucking cooked like almost every time. And this was that like Keystone Wallace, career high in threes. He ended up with what, seven for the night? Amazing game for him as he's like picking off Peyton Watson in the backcourt as he's playing exemplary defense. The Thunder just like wall to wall with great players as we know. But it's still awesome to see a player like Casen show up for a game like this against ostensibly the Thunder's best Western Conference competition.
- [04:20]
D
Yeah, I think you're forced to again do the symptom disease sort of decision making discern which is which because you're watching them get shots. And in this game, granted on the one hand OKC is like, I mean they're the best driving team on the planet, I would say. And. But on the other hand, I was just like Denver, if they're going to be, you know, in this particular game, which is not representative because they've guys out, you know, obviously Christian Brown, I don't know. He's close to coming back if I'm not mistaken.
- [04:48]
C
Well, even if he does come back, he hasn't played well basically all season when he's been health well but he's been on the court not healthy, but.
- [04:54]
D
Yeah, yeah, I mean, the point of attack stuff was pretty tough. I mean, Bruce Brown was tough. Peyton Watson has, you know, he's, he's a disruptive guy. But it was just. And then you had the fact that Jokic is trying to get his seat legs back under his Serbian sea legs, Balkan whatever it is. And, and anytime that he came, there were a couple instances where he came to help. It was a little stumbling, fumbling, a little slow. Yeah, Easy kicks, easy swings, open threes. And like you said, when they're going in, OKC is just, they're just a monster.
- [05:26]
B
Yeah, Jokic looked great in his first game back, but this was kind of the flip side where it feels like this is probably what we're going to be in for for the next month or so. Him trying to measure the minutes he's doing, how much effort he's giving. And that's not to be surprised because he was just out for 16 games. Murray also a little muted in this one, but I gotta say, as the Denver optimist on this podcast, I was just blown away yet again by Peyton Watson. Not only has he been stringing together months now of pretty high impact play, but to do what he did 29 points night and looking like the go to guy on a lot of these offensive possessions for Denver in a big stakes game against a type of opponent that they're going to probably see down the line here. To me, I was thinking forward of when everything else is clicking in concert with Watson. It does feel like he works seamlessly in like off of those other guys. There were a couple plays, Rob, where the ball was pinging and he was right in the center of that.
- [06:19]
C
Oh, absolutely. I mean, I think the way he's learned how to be a part of that ball movement, but also to stay out of guy's way where he can just like play out of the corner and still be athletic and dynamic and make amazing plays. His shooting has come along in such a huge way this season. He's also just like when he needs to be kind of a mid range killer at times too. So he just like gives them layers upon layers upon layers where he was just flat out the best player in this game who was not named Shay Gil Alexander, like just completely dynamic in every way. Awesome for the Nuggets. I just wish, Justin, I wish I could take you right now back two years ago, peeping through the bookcase behind you like Matthew McConaughey, banging on it, trying to reach your Previous self to tell yourself about Peyton Watson, because this has been a long road for you. I'm just glad you're here.
- [07:06]
B
He has to earn my love, you know, but once he does it, I'm here for you.
- [07:11]
C
It's unconditional now.
- [07:12]
B
That's right.
- [07:12]
D
And we'll play Shania Twain's you Win My Love, and Justin will, like, spin slowly. You guys probably don't even know that song.
- [07:20]
C
No. This is a pro sh podcast, for the record. We need to make that very clear.
- [07:24]
D
Yeah, there were moments where, granted, OKC is missing people too. I mean, Caruso and Jaylen. And Jaylen Williams didn't play Santa Clara. Jaylen, that is. And because there were moments.
- [07:34]
C
Mitchell, too.
- [07:35]
D
Oh, yes. Important. Yeah. Lest we forget him. There were definitely moments, though, where Watson was rolling and I was kind of like, man, for, like, all the pieces they do have. It's like they don't have a perfect matchup for. For Payton, like, when he was really going. Because he was going at Chet. They had Chet on him at different times, and he was just faster than Chet. But, you know, when Jalen's back, I think it'll be a different animal. But the shooting doesn't feel like Cinderella anymore. You know, it doesn't feel like the. The slipper. It just feels like he. He's kind of proven himself to be. To be real.
- [08:10]
C
The question I have is, like, they still have these lineups on the floor where. And I know some of this is Jokic is on a minutes limit right now. The rotation is not exactly typical. Aaron Gordon is still out, as we mentioned. Cam Johnson, Christian Brown, like, all these guys are out. It's a weird situation even in that. Why are there minutes in a game like this in which Jokic and Murray are off the floor and Peyton Watson is also off the floor when he's so capable of cooking in this way. And I just feel like I'm still waiting for him to get even more shine in those moments so that it's not all like Jonas Valentunas and Tim Hardaway Jr. Having to, like, steer the entire ship by themselves.
- [08:46]
B
So do we need to keep tracking the non Watson minutes to go along with all the non Jokic minutes? Graphics.
- [08:52]
C
Well, but it is. We need to keep track of the Watson, non Jokic, non Murray minutes. Those are the minutes that interest me.
- [08:58]
B
Several graphics at this point. But no, I think you're on to something because what I like about Watson is not only the shot making, which we have a pretty decent sample of at this point that he's pretty good at that. But also the raw, visceral stuff that it seemed like he was dining out on previously, it just seems like he's marrying the two and it just gives them a little bit more of an umph and an athletic advantage that they probably haven't had in a little while practically since, like, Jamal Murray and the Jeremy Grant era kind of went byways. Especially when Jamal Murray, after the injury, he's been a little bit more crafty. Jokic is obviously more subtle, going to do things off the ground. But like Gordon, I think is. Is something we got to track here because he's out now four to six weeks. He was often that guy for a very long time. Now it seems to be giving way to Watson. I'm curious what it's going to look like when all of these guys are on the court, if they can get a good run right before the playoffs where we're not only getting Gordon Watson, but also Cam Johnson in there. Like Kyle. There's just like an abundance of talent on this team that feels overwhelming in a way that I can't remember ever really happening with Denver. It's usually just been Jokic being so awesome than everyone playing off of that here. It just feels more of like a collective in a way that feels like it could be a pretty interesting counterbalance to what OKC does.
- [10:11]
D
Yeah. I mean, in terms of like, just sheer, powerful, raw athleticism, I think you've got to reach back to those. You know, those. Carmelo Jr. I'm trying to think with Fareed. Was Farid in there, too? I mean, they. They had just a Kenyon Martin. They had some just wild athletic team. Was that 09 or. I'm trying to. I'm trying. I'm getting them cross. I think 13 was for Carmelo, so.
- [10:33]
C
I want to say 08 is the deeper run.
- [10:35]
D
Yeah.
- [10:36]
B
Freed was the later vintage. And then they always. They also had like, the running gun team with Alan Farid and Ty Lawson.
- [10:43]
C
Wilson Chandler to that point.
- [10:45]
B
Yeah, they've had some real spry bunches.
- [10:48]
C
Yeah.
- [10:48]
D
Yeah. But. But you're right. I mean, like, obviously Gordon's one of the best athletes in the league in terms of, like, what he's able to do in terms of his frame and then his functionality of his skill set to go along with that. But I mean, Brown's a pretty good athlete for as much as he sucks, like Rob seems to think. But just like to take you to task for the things you say. Rob and then. But no, I mean, those are the Guys, it's going to be, they're going to be, you know, landing this, they're going to be laying landing strip for this team. This, this configuration of this team as it's starting to get really, really important. So hopefully we can see, you know, Jokic healthy and things like that. But okc, you could say, you could say the same thing. So. But I still expect these, the dynamic of the back and forth between these two teams is just going to be fascinating to watch because they're going to, they're different from last year. And seeing them figure themselves out in a series, I think it'll be pretty different this year, don't you think?
- [11:46]
C
I would imagine. I mean, for one, I think OKC is just emboldened in totally different ways. Having made their championship run, Denver is so much deeper than they were before. Peyton Watson, as we've been talking about, is a dramatically different player. There are enough wrinkles going on where I don't think it's as simple as, oh, Denver was this close last time and they added guys and now they're over the top. Like, I just think a lot of the, the terms of engagement have changed for both of these teams and that will be shaped somewhat by who is healthy when, of course. But I'm, I, I'm just, I'm eager to see exactly how all of the athleticism we just talked about for Denver, which, yes, this is a springier, faster, quicker, twitch version of a team that we've seen and you need that on both sides of the ball to beat the Thunder. Like, you need that in terms of the initiation of your offense to really crack what they're doing defensively. And you need it as you talked about up top, Kyle, just in terms of like point of attack against Shea where even, even the Nuggets, like best op, best relative options in this game, like Bruce Brown, Shea was just like pulling his strings like he was a puppet. Just like, go, this was go that way.
- [12:50]
D
Oh, here's looking for Bruce, trying to find him completely.
- [12:53]
C
And then Peyton Watson just had like absolutely no idea what to do on or off the ball against Shay. And so they, they're going to need every bit of that athleticism they can get and every bit of on ball defense they can get in order to keep the Thunder honest in terms of just like forcing them into more difficult possessions in a series like that.
- [13:11]
B
There's still several casts to strain over the course of the rest of the season.
- [13:15]
C
Lots of issue left because it's going to happen.
- [13:19]
B
There's so many Cavs have just gone to the graveyard this season. It's. It's unbelievable.
- [13:23]
C
The cats and hammies both like, I just, I cringe on my couch every time.
- [13:28]
D
The chippiness was really ramped up. I feel like in this game though, Shay was, Shay was running a lot hotter than normal, like crowing during that first Peyton Watson free throw. I guess that was in the first half. Just very mouthy. And then the, you know, the Hartenstein and, and YIC back and forth.
- [13:46]
C
One of my favorites.
- [13:47]
D
The pettiness was really firing on all cylinders in an amusing way.
- [13:52]
C
The battles within, battles within, battles for Isaiah Hartenstein and Nicola Jokic as they proceed to tangle and then try to untangle their various limbs. I mean, it's just must see television.
- [14:02]
B
Well, I'm glad you, you brought up Hartenstein because he's kind of been thrown into some rumors over the past couple of weeks. I think it might just be people hoping and praying that the Thunder will do anything.
- [14:13]
C
Yeah.
- [14:13]
D
Why on earth would they do that? Right?
- [14:15]
B
Well, that's my question to you guys. I think that the one, I guess, devil's advocate position would be that Harshtein is a free agent and thus is at a high number. Could they retain him considering all the money they. They're not paying to their big three and everybody else to come. That's the case for it. The other case would be that we just won a fucking title and we didn't have three or four of our main players tonight and it still didn't really matter. Do you guys see any pathway of. Of the Thunder doing anything at the deadline, Har related or even just like marginal ninth guy sort of thing?
- [14:46]
C
I mean, you could, you could see marginal ninth guy sorts of things or just like various bookkeeping. Perhaps if there's a way to like ease some financial burden for what's already, you know, in a pretty expensive team and going to get more expensive. I just don't see why you would trade someone like Isaiah Hardenstein when he's so critical to matchups exactly like this. Like, I'm not even worried about like what is in the box score, how many points he scores. It's just like you need a body that size to throw at Nikola Jokic. It can't be all like Alex Caruso curve balls all the time in a playoff series. Like, you gotta have just kind of more standard coverage to keep your defense from freaking out. So between this and then, I guess like, maybe there's a little less pressure now that the Rockets, because of Steven Adams season ending injury aren't going to be playing quite as big. Maybe there is a little more give and flexibility there for, for a team like the Thunder, but I still think it's great to have the option.
- [15:37]
D
I figure it'll probably be in the margins. I was just My son has really gotten into the early 90s Spider man cartoon that like from our age range has been very fun to relive. Those still slap and are great, but there's an episode where the Punisher runs across Spider man and he shoots him with this, with this net. And he notices that Spider man gets out of it the first time. So he comes back with a new and revised net that's just for Spider Man. Isaiah Hartenstein is that net for Jokic. You gotta have it. You gotta have. You know, Spider Man's gonna get out of the net at some point. It's true. That net is just annoying enough that it slows him down and he's like, God damn it. You know, like Spider man doesn't say goddammit in that Fox Saturday morning. It's really late and I'm loopy if you can't tell. But you need the net and I think that's why you got to keep hard stuff.
- [16:24]
B
Yeah, I agree, but it isn't agreed. Moving on.
- [16:30]
C
You agree?
- [16:32]
B
One last note here. Jamal Murray named an All Star, finally. What's funny is it seemed like it was such an afterthought because it was just such a foregone conclusion that he was going to make it for the first time. I was thinking back on it because Mike Conley was the last guy that we've had in this range and he had to get in, I believe, on an injury exception for Devin Book a couple years ago. But Murray's just like, we considered him as like a West starter. For him to get in still matters. Still a nice little, little feather in the cap there. As we look back on his career.
- [17:01]
C
In a couple years, I think it's almost more for us than it is for him at this point. Like all the quotes every time he's been asked about, he's like, yeah, whatever, man. I moving on and power back on.
- [17:11]
D
His career in a couple years. What do you expect is going to happen? Justin?
- [17:15]
C
Well, I guess the world is going to end in a couple years, first of all.
- [17:19]
B
So I was stumbling into a point about how when you look over someone's career in retrospect, I do think these sorts of benchmarks and accolades matter more as time goes on because you just look at the like the one all star on the basketball reference page or whatever 3D version of it we're going to get in a couple of years. The Tick tock ification version 3D.
- [17:39]
C
Well, it's also, I think it's also going to be interesting too if this, if this does end up being over a really long term, an age of parody in the NBA where there aren't a lot of repeat champions and there certainly aren't a lot of back to back champions, stuff like that is going to matter a lot in terms of hall of Fame credentials and things like that. It already does. But if there are even fewer ways to get in through like, you know, an Andre Iguodala side door of the hall of Fame by just being on a consistent winner over and over and over, you got to have some like, some stuff like this on your resume.
- [18:09]
D
He was one of the more inexplicable like All Star non All Stars over the years because he's, he's just been in that conversation just, I mean, and it had been a talking point before this year. Just like, why? Because it just didn't quite add up. But it's nice to see that he finally got one.
- [18:25]
B
I for one have always agreed.
- [18:28]
C
But you didn't even agree, like you didn't even necessarily pick Jamal Murray for those All Star teams. You just got mad that other people were complaining that Jamal Murray never made an All Star team.
- [18:37]
B
No, I got mad that people were using it as a case to bolster Jokic's already overwhelming case of being great, where it's like you had to pretend as if he and Aaron Gordon weren't just like two of the best supplementary players of recent years.
- [18:52]
C
But it's true.
- [18:53]
B
It's nice to finally put to bed that one statistical oddity. We'll also look back on this as the time where Kwai Leonard played absolutely guns blazing and made an All Star team in his home arena. Oh, wait, we won't. Because LeBron James made it over him for some reason. Like did the other owners or did the, the coaches and assistant coaches that filled out these ballots that they have aspiration stock. Unless they're still like harboring grudges. What, what's going on here?
- [19:21]
C
I have no explanation for what happened. Do you have any explanation for this?
- [19:25]
B
I gotta assume the injuries played a role in it. Maybe they filled out the ballots when Kwai was out for another three games recently or. The obvious one is that LeBron just holds so much weight that people could even conceive of. Of leaving him off and I guess if I think two things simultaneously, like yes, I think the record should reflect the guys who were the best at this time. Having said that, when we get to the actual event, it is just frivolous nonsense to the point where we're changing it for the 19th time. And so for LeBron to be there is great. I wish somebody else had been there in his place to, to set the record straight. But. Oh well.
- [20:02]
C
Well, maybe in the spirit of like sending the most fun players to the All Star game like a 41 year old dad. LeBron may not be like the picture of modern basketball fun, but like he's distinctly a more fun All Star game player than Kawhi Leonard is. Is that, is that not true?
- [20:17]
B
Sure, totally.
- [20:19]
C
We'll take it more. I'm not gonna get VEED in there beat for the three point contest, frankly.
- [20:27]
D
I want to see it.
- [20:28]
C
Yeah.
- [20:29]
B
All right. Why don't we wrap it there?
- [20:32]
A
We'll get this episode is brought to you by Whole Foods Market. And New year means a whole new batch of wellness goals. And Whole Foods Market is the best place to start. From sales on supplements of vitamins, protein powders, probiotics and much more. They've got everything you need to upgrade your routine with ingredients you can trust. You'll also find lean proteins like sustainable wild caught sockeye salmon, plus smart meal shortcuts from the 365 brand like their ready to eat salads. Even dry January is covered with a host of non alcoholic drinks. Shop all things wellness at Whole Foods market must be 21 in select states.
- [21:07]
B
To the other stuff we recorded a little bit earlier. I think only a couple hours. Nothing has actually happened in between, which is nice. Talk about the two trades that happen. Talk about the most intriguing teams at the trade deadline. But first we'll take a quick break. We're back here to talk about the team size of our most intriguing players and teams combination right before we get into the deadline on Thursday. But first, we have some actual trades to talk about. Within the past 24 hours, we just doubled the amount of trades. So we have in total three this season. I would say, Rob, that these are of the palette, like setting the amuse bouche sorts of deals.
- [21:46]
C
I mean, we love an amuse bouche, I think.
- [21:48]
B
So get those sinuses popping, you know, ready for the big morsels to come later this week.
- [21:54]
C
Nothing says getting the sinuses popping like DeAndre Hunter.
- [21:57]
B
That's true. Do you want to start there or do you want to start with Vinnie Vidi?
- [22:02]
C
Vit Cree oh, boy.
- [22:03]
D
That's just by popping sinuses. Or can we just does blowing your nose of DeAndre Hunter, does that qualify as. As getting the sinuses popping? I mean, what sinus action are we. Are we limited to or open to on that metaphor?
- [22:16]
C
It's certainly what the Cavs did, you know, just. Just kind of shook their hands off and to be done with the DeAndre Hunter experience. And frankly, like, I. I can't really blame him for it.
- [22:26]
B
Yeah, I would love to look at this and see some ray of hope if you're a Kings fan. And I just cannot find one. Just because practically what they did is wash their hands of the decisions that they made, what, six months ago over in the off season. In one fell swoop, they get rid of Dennis Schroeder, they get rid of Dario Sarich, who they acquired in order to open up money in order to sign Dennis Shooter in the off season, if you remember, and it took two seconds, plus Keon Ellis on top of that, to get Hunter, who, I guess, if you want to be an optimist, certainly fits the type of mold of a lot of the type of player that a lot of teams want. Unfortunately, Rob, last year might have been the peak of his career thus far. Typically, he plays more like he has this season, which is not good at all. Yeah, he's just.
- [23:14]
C
I mean, I think even at his best, sort of aggressively fine. And the Cavs had reason to swing for something like that, right? Like, they have a pretty complete team otherwise. They have good bigs, they have good guards. They really wanted someone to kind of hold down a combo forward spot for them. So I. I got the logic at the time in the cavs trading for DeAndre Hunter. What the Kings are doing, I really couldn't tell you. And. But to. To keep it with the Cavs before we even move on to that, for Cleveland to get rid of DeAndre Hunter, who has next year in 25 million on his current deal to get Dennis Schroeder, who I would say is at least kind of awash with DeAndre Hunter, while playing a different position, like both kind of theoretically interesting and sometimes useful players. And then Keon Ellis, a defender who, as far as I understand, teams actually do like and want. But getting depth in this deal, in addition to two good players while being over the second apron, just a good bit of business for Cleveland.
- [24:08]
D
It's a little bit of a trade off. I think in some ways we can talk about in a minute in terms of what they gain versus the position that they're putting themselves in with their personnel. But if you look at Hunter, if you just track him going back to, I guess it was the 19 draft that he was in. He just. He came into the league as I think he. My question for you all is I don't know that he ever fully graduated from hypothetical status where you were talking about. We were like, the hypothetical being you're going to be more than fine. And I just don't know that he ever really did that. You know, there were moments, I know, where Hawks fans were pretty ferocious defending him. Like. No, no, no, no. You know, there was a lot of that going on when they were scrappy with the. With the first run of the Trey Young era that they had going on. But when he goes to Cleveland, you were talking about them needing him to serve a basic function. Like, we're not asking a ton of you. We need you to be switchable. We need you to play defense, and we need you to make open shots.
- [25:00]
B
Sure.
- [25:00]
D
He just didn't do it, man. I mean, 30% from 3, you know, 32.6 on catch and shoots, which are all the shots that he's taken. Might as well have Isaac Okoro in that situation if, you know, we need. And I understand why they would move on from him in that sense.
- [25:14]
B
Yeah, Hunter very much looks the part. Just big muscle bound like perfect size. Length you would want.
- [25:21]
D
You can relate. Justin, right?
- [25:23]
C
Yeah. Justin profile. You know, when you're going through your criteria for basically anything, but especially a podcaster, you know, Justin checks out.
- [25:32]
B
I'll take a contract from the Kings any day, especially if they have some available real estate in Sacramento. Just open up my portfolio. Yeah, you're get all the small markets going. But to me, Hunter was more of a finishing piece to what seemed like the Cavs were going for last year to push them over the top. They needed a bigger wing to defend some of those guys in the Eastern Conference. Unfortunately, this seems like a resignation to a certain extent of where they might be. And the good thing I do like about Ellis and Schroeder even. And Schroeder, even though he has been poor this year, he has been on this weird track of being good on one team, but then bad on the next. And so if you're following that pattern, he might be good on the Cavs. Cause he was just bad on the Kings. I like that both of them have a certain energy to how they play. And at this point, what the Cavs need more than anything, Rob, I think, is just a shot in the arm. Someone who could be lively and Ellis in particular seems like that in space.
- [26:23]
C
I think it'll help for sure. Like Ellis's defense just gives them a lot of different options in terms of how they want to build lineups. And you're right. Like the theoretical addition of DeAndre Hunter as a forward, as a finishing piece sure is what it is, but that never translated to reality. He was never able to really be like an actual go to defender for the kinds of players they needed him to guard because he's never been that kind of defender. He's always been like pretty decent in terms of defending, bigger wings and largely pretty average in terms of hitting threes. And where does that leave you in terms of Your like vaunted 3D edition? I think we saw where it took the Cavs ultimately. But to trace it back even further, I mean Kyle, you're absolutely right that he never graduated beyond like the theoretical stage of what he was supposed to be. It's so weird how many guys on those that like conference finals Hawks team turned out to be exactly that. Where you had Bogdan Bogdanovich, who was supposed to really be something and never quite saw his NBA career take off in the way that I think a lot of us wanted it to. DeAndre Hunter, clearly. John Collins has been like an exercise in frustration for several team, although had some moments for the Clippers, Murray even.
- [27:31]
B
In the later stages.
- [27:32]
C
In the later stages, absolutely. Kevin Herder has found like a nice role with the Bulls, but it really hasn't ever graduated beyond being more than like an like a slightly interesting movement shooter. It's like that whole era of Hawks basketball just fizzled out with such a spectacular dud that it really could only end in Sacramento, if we're being honest.
- [27:51]
D
Yeah, that draft is really interesting. I just pulled it up. I mean you're looking and you could see they could have had Cam Johnson, you know, they could have had Tyler Hero, they could have had Nikhil Alexander Walker. What's interesting is Harlan was draft or Hunter was drafted one spot ahead of Darius Garland. So it's interesting how these things all kind of. I'm curious though, with you talked about the spark plug edness of it all and, and the, the energy and the things that these, these guys are going to bring. I, I think the first thing that I like woozily as I was going to sleep, texted you guys about this trade was my brain went, we have, we have four very wispy guards now. I understand the, the pluses. I just wonder is this go. Does this end their Pursuit of completeness. Is there some other thing that they're going to have to do? Because I do like on paper, the idea of those two backing, you know, Mitchell and Garland up, depending on availability, they might be asked to do more than that. Schroeder's been in situations like that throughout his career where he can just kind of step in and assume more. More dialogue in the, in the scene. But I'm kind of wondering about that. And like Keon Ellis, I feel like he's like one of the, he's one of the I know ball all Stars where his approval rating is very high for someone who has never averaged more than 10 points a game in his career. I just find that interesting. But, but personnel wise, what do you all think about that?
- [29:06]
B
Well, I have two separate tinfoil hats in front of me. One's like a little one like just a little guy putting on the top here. And I would think maybe this is a sign that Darius Garland might not be as healthy as we think he is. And certainly that was already quite low. The bar was. But in terms of his availability, Justin.
- [29:22]
C
You already know we want the big hat. Like, let's, let's just, let's just go straight to it.
- [29:27]
B
Haven't we been saying for years that the optimal counterbalance for Donovan Mitchell, who has been playing more point guard this year in part because of those Garland injuries, is someone closer to Keon Ellis than it is Darius Garland? And so I think the money is starting to be pretty tight in Cleveland. And as a result of this, they're still in the second apron, but I think they're about 7 million million off. They're like a Max Struse or someone like that away from getting under there. The team has been playing like a second apron team. I do wonder if we're starting to reconsider all the Cavs, especially with Donovan Mitchell's free agency in 2027 coming up here. I, I wonder if this is ultimately the pathway to getting rid of Garland.
- [30:06]
C
It could be. I mean, look, the playoffs are going to be a referendum. I think we're just at a sort of breaking point where not by want of, like, anyone to break up the team, but like, they've had a good run here, they've had opportunities. And we can only say so many times, oh, wouldn't it be great if they were all healthy by the end of the year before it becomes obvious that they're probably just not going to all be healthy by the end of the year? And Garland is a huge piece of that because of his inability to just stay on the floor and kind of. He's been trying to play through various injuries for what feels like his entire Cavs tenure at this point. But it does come at a cost. And you're already working kind of against the grain in terms of making this guard combination work in the first place. You're then asking guys to play hurt or for other guys to compensate for their teammates who are out. It does make sense to do something sooner or later, but give these guys one last ride. And in the meantime, Ellis is sort of like a plug and play option who can work opposite off of Mitchell or Garland. Right. Like. Or even playing in like three guard alignments, which I'm sure they will almost have to do now because they're losing someone like Hunter.
- [31:05]
B
Yeah.
- [31:06]
D
Concerns me a little bit because you all talked about them going over the top. You got to be near the top to go over the top. And if you're looking, if you're looking at the, like what I was saying here with the types of guys that they have and you think about the East, I'm just like, okay, they're fifth in the east now. Now you're just thinking about who they're going to be facing off with in the East. I mean, these big. I don't know who's going to guard Jalen Brown for the Cavs. I'm just. I mean, I don't know who they're going to end up playing, who's going to guard an Anthony Black, who's going to guard a Cade Cunningham. I just think unless it's like a super successful lean in a. In a stylistic direction where they're trying to dictate teams to come play the way that they play, I don't know if they're going to be able to score enough. Maybe they will. Maybe it'll work. But it defensively worries me a little bit because Hunter didn't work and you just kind of traded away. I don't know. It makes me think maybe they're not done in that sense.
- [31:54]
C
But that's where I'm like, if Hunter wasn't getting it done, then what is the harm exactly in playing a little smaller and getting at least something different from a different kind of player, whether that's the energy and kind of low volume spacing that Keon Ellis gives you, the dynamism and the pressure and kind of the pace that Dennis Schroeder gives you. Like, I think the Cavs can benefit from both of those things, frankly. And all we should also Say, like, I just don't think straight up that this trade happens if Jalen Tyson has not had the kind of season that he's had where he basically made DeAndre Hunter expendable to the Cavs.
- [32:27]
B
Yeah, I think Cleveland's first priority is just writing the ship, and I think this probably goes a long way to that. And then in the playoffs, I think you could probably make the case that a lot of the competition isn't as thick in terms of multiple dynamic wing scorers. Yeah, Kyle perked up there. I wasn't going in that route where it's like, it's Jalen Brown, which maybe even Moly could take that duty. But, like, who is offsetting him if Tatum isn't playing or isn't it at full speed? Even the Pistons don't necessarily have that guy yet, but perhaps the trade deadline will produce some different results there. I like it overall for Cleveland. And for the 90th time over the past two to 10 years, the Kings made a terrible trade.
- [33:06]
C
So they really did.
- [33:07]
B
The other trade on the board here, the big one, Vic Creche, coming to Portland. You guys know that meme where it's like two really muscle bound arms just clasping together?
- [33:19]
C
Of course.
- [33:20]
D
I mean, one of the most saturated memes in Internet history. Yeah, I've heard of that one. You guys heard of Horios?
- [33:26]
B
Yeah, Memes are the monoculture. Unfortunately, I'm dipping into it right now. My post hammer curl arm is representing Portland. And the other one clasping it is the emaciated noodle arm. Of all the nerds who have been telling me for a year that Vic Creechy is just that guy.
- [33:45]
D
Wait, have you seen the nerd? Have you guys seen the. The Homer Simpson meme where he fades into the shrubbery? Have you guys seen that one?
- [33:54]
B
Is that me? After being embarrassed by bringing up memes on a podcast with a bunch of 30 kid?
- [33:59]
D
Here's the thing.
- [34:00]
C
We do it on every single podcast. Like, at some point, it is, hey, you guys know that meme. I think we just need to assume that we know the memes and we just say we need a new entry point. That's what I'm getting at.
- [34:12]
D
I can't. You guys know anything. As we've learned this, the public resoundingly sided with me on. I mean, no. No votes in dissension. I was just hanging back. I was like, I don't have to even say anything. It was. I don't know, some of us were.
- [34:26]
C
Living a more dignified life watching VH1, dating shows. All right, we're. I was just like a channel over, frankly. And I clearly have a cultural blind spot.
- [34:34]
B
But in terms of the trade, just a windfall for Portland, I'm actually surprised it only took two seconds. I know Vit has his flaws, but in terms of need with the shooting element, in terms of fit, where he's got some size, isn't much of a defender, but at the very least plays with a certain ferocity, I would say he's a badass and I think he fits that general vibe. It only cost 2 seconds plus swap wreath who isn't going to play the rest of the year. And I think they're already considering getting rid of in order to turn some of these two ways into actual contracts. I mean, I, I think this is a home run.
- [35:10]
C
I'm willing to accept that I am on the extreme end of Vit Craigy approval, but also I, I just can't really fathom how you could get a player like him for two second round picks. You know, granted two seconds without like crazy protections or anything. So maybe one of those picks will end up being something. But V. Creechy is a real player now who shoots threes at a really high level, who can actually dribble and keep an offense moving. Those guys are in shorter supply than you think. And for a team like Portland where he just plugs into the machine and they want to take threes but can't make threes, let me introduce you to a guy who just like hits at a reliable like 40, 42% clip, which.
- [35:48]
D
We found out why. One of the reasons now he's a good player, but we found out that Baloney Mahoney has, has a check tie to V. Kresi. Right. Well, did you want to, I mean.
- [35:58]
C
The embassy like may be sending me some materials on a regular basis just to make sure that I'm up to date on what Vida is doing. But you know, I'm, I'm happy to.
- [36:06]
D
Support my countrymen, the embassy of shooting threes and being 6 foot 8. We were talking about how it's interesting how he's being described as a jumbo playmaker and things like that, where I was like, I'm not putting it past him to be a good decision maker, but that's the, that's the thing. I mean, he is death. He is an infusion of something that Portland really needs. And you want to talk about a great price. I mean, goodness, this is, this is awesome. I, I, I was thinking back about the fact that Kreshi has been OKC had a run where they were just curating people. They just had people in their system that they just had. They had too many good players. Like I just have memories of him playing for their, for their like G League team. It was just like when they, when they had like accumulated all, all those different assets. But it's been interesting to see him get to this point now. I mean it's not like he's lighting the world on fire. He's going to. What he's going to be doing is going to be very limited and simple. But. But you know, Portland is going to be really helped I think by it. So it is a dorky. It's another I know ball thing to even know who he is. But I think Portland fans are going to love him.
- [37:06]
C
Yeah.
- [37:07]
B
So contract also great. Basically 2 to 3 million over the next three years. In the actual. The next two years are basically non guaranteed because there's a little non guarantee next year and then a team option on the third year. That's a great contract for a guy who's going to play. As Rob alluded to, this is a by committee team. Especially if Denny Abdia is going to keep dealing with his back injury. Oh yeah. But he just. He's going to get minutes and frankly he could play a pretty big role because they don't have a lot of guys who could pass and dribble at this point.
- [37:34]
C
Yeah.
- [37:35]
B
Just because of all their injuries. I think if you want to get back to the tinfoil hats, I got a big old sombrero in front of me for this one and so a tin foil sombrero.
- [37:45]
D
That's. That's a great nickname for you. I think that's Sombrero.
- [37:49]
C
That's a. That's a prop. We actually need is the tin sombrero.
- [37:52]
B
We can get. Get the prop department on there please.
- [37:55]
D
Riddle come through.
- [37:57]
B
So the Blazers are trying to to convert their two two way guys City sudoku and in particular Caleb Love. Right.
- [38:03]
C
Sure.
- [38:04]
B
But they need to lose two players in order to do that Brief was a prime candidate for one of those spots. Not only is he an expiring, he was basically their fourth center after they drafted Young. He was also out for the year. So I think people assumed that he was going to be one of the spots. The other spot, the presumed target was Ryan Rupert who's still with the team. And I would guess it gets lost at some point in this whole deadline. But now there isn't a natural number two on the board there. So how there's a roster crunch happening?
- [38:32]
C
Well, there isn't even a natural number one, is there? Because if they trading they're trading dwap spot for vit spot.
- [38:38]
B
Well so right. So it was going to be repair and wreath were the assumed two guys or the easiest cuts on the board. There's only one easy cut on the board.
- [38:45]
C
Gotcha. Okay.
- [38:47]
B
And. But I think you could argue like maybe not even that there's I guess maybe another wrinkle to this where like maybe they just don't convert city because you now have guard depth. There's rumors that are reports even that Scoot might be in the waiting in the wings to come back and all of a sudden the guard dearth turns into a pretty stocked depth chart because if you have Caleb V and then Scoot and all of a sudden like it's not that big of an issue anymore. But this is all to say like they have to lose some guys and they're very much still in the mix in the Giannis Derby in some form or fashion. I think the, the eyes are getting wide as the people connect the dots between like, what if Giannis were to come here? I don't necessarily see that, but we talked about this the other day. I think they are very much in the mix, if only because they hold the future of the Bucks in their hands.
- [39:35]
C
So where are those eyes getting wide? The like, what if Giannis becomes a trailblazer eyes. Where are you seeing those people?
- [39:41]
B
People mostly online because I don't leave my house.
- [39:47]
D
The Blazer's Edge comment section.
- [39:50]
B
Yeah, all the soccer moms. I don't know how you guys feel about that fit. Overall, I think if, if Giannis wanted to come to Portland, which I would doubt, I think people would would welcome him with open arms because there's also like and Portland has had star players, Dame first and foremost but also have never had a as like developed in his prime superstar choose to come to Portland. So this would be a whole new thing. I think for that reason alone you just, you take it if he wants to come. Having said that, I don't know if the roster is the perfect fit for Giannis. We just talked about the shooting concern also, like, did everyone not watch Dame and Giannis previously? This thing didn't go particularly well the first time. The defense would be incredible.
- [40:32]
C
Like the heart wants what it wants and maybe just wants to play with Jrue Holiday again.
- [40:36]
D
Say. I don't know that I would be letting that enter my thought process. How, how Dame is going to affect this. I mean, to me it would just. We have this tendency. I guess it just depends on how much a. How much time you think Giannis has left and how to be a central piece for something serious and whether or not that me. That affects how you should think about his fit with the greater roster. Because I think, I think that you need to simplify it if you're serious about getting it. Getting him down to Denny and Giannis, I would think. Right. Just start from there. If we think that that is. I mean, what do you Rob, you made a face. I. I think that. I think we've already indulged serious player.
- [41:13]
C
I think we've already indulged the possibility of Giannis becoming a Portland Trailblazer beyond the scope of its actual probability. Like I will say this, this is not happening.
- [41:21]
D
We're just talking Ross here, man.
- [41:24]
C
I hear you.
- [41:25]
B
I hear you. Most likely not. But the fact that they own the Bucks Future, they own three picks between 28 and 30, they at the very least control a huge part of what's going to happen. I just think, you know, if we're just like having a little fantasy talk here, I think in terms of defensively, they might be the best defense in the league if they just popped in Giannis because the big advantage here is because they have those picks. You probably don't have to give up in much way of players. You probably have to throw a shade in a scoot a young someone there. But for the most part the appeal would be for those future picks. And the problem is with Denny and Giannis, they almost do the same thing where they just want to batter their face against the defense like over and over again. And you could stagger that to a certain extent, but at a certain point Giannis needs to spray out and we're looking at reluctant, if not just like middling type of shooters around, like Donovan clinging might become Brook Lopez, but like he would probably be your best, most reliable three point shooter at that point.
- [42:21]
C
I thought he already was. Brook Lopez wasn't that. Isn't that dumb?
- [42:24]
B
Just.
- [42:25]
D
Justin's the one that's going to spray out if this trade goes down.
- [42:29]
B
If Giannis was in Portland, I would, I would love that. Just watching him for all those games.
- [42:35]
C
Oh, it would be spectacular. And like just to be very clear, if Giannis becomes a trailblazer, we are smashing the swear jar. You know, like every. Everything changes the day that Giannis.
- [42:44]
B
Are we still doing that, by the way? Are those still going into episodes?
- [42:47]
C
I certainly hope so because we're in the billionaires.
- [42:50]
D
You need to. Yeah, you need to do a ceremonial like Gallagher level, like smash it with a sledgehammer.
- [42:55]
C
Oh yeah, yeah. But I mean to your point about the picks, Justin, like this is a reason why the Blazers could certainly be in a very unique bargaining position if they wanted to make an honest run at Giannis. But I think more realistically gets them into the scenarios we've talked about previously as a third team in a Giannis deal where they could contribute some of those picks potentially or they could just be, you know, a way station to receive other good veteran players, other salary get involved in a lot of different ways. Like they just have a lot that's pretty appealing at this stage. Whether you want good players, good young players or veteran players or picks. Like they have a lot of ways in.
- [43:30]
B
They've made a lot of good business decisions of late and I think the Creechy deal kind of like fits into that. You keep making moves on the fringes. Like you could replace some guys if you need to trade your top line guys or you could funnel them off like they did. Even dwap Reef like I doubt he sticks in in Atlanta, but if he rehabs, he's on a season ending foot injury right now, he's going to end up on a roster next year. He's like a, he's a solid stretch option when you need a third or fourth big in your rotation. So they made a lot of good moves. I think that the more interesting probably side tangent we could take here is are those picks, if they don't end up getting involved in a Yanish trade, are they then too good to even trade for like a Mikhail Bridges type like we talked about that. Is it if Giannis goes to the Knicks, let's say in theory the Blazers want to help out. Would you even trade one or two of those for a guy like Bridges? Get the player now or you're waiting for the next guy. Honestly, Kyle, it might be as much about like the upcoming drafts. I don't know how much you've looked at the 2028-2029 drafts, but like you could have the top pick in those drafts if you're keeping the Bucks picks.
- [44:34]
D
Yeah, I would seriously consider hanging on to those because it seems like among the packages that I've heard, I mean in the Yanis situation, I haven't hear, heard anything that has made me, I don't know, have you guys heard anything in terms of like what's the best prospect that's been even proposed for, for Giannis at this point? I mean I've heard people talk about Tyler Hero.
- [44:52]
C
Right.
- [44:53]
D
I'm. That's not moving me and you know, Kaminga, things like that.
- [44:56]
B
I'm.
- [44:57]
D
The odds still feel pretty, pretty good that, that the, these Bucks picks are going to be super, super valuable.
- [45:04]
C
I would think so. Yeah. I think the, the most appealing assets that are being bandied about and we might get into this a little later in the pod too to me are more draft based than they are current actual prospect based. Cause yeah, the, the teams that are in a position to deal for Giannis, yeah, they might have Khale where you know, like they might have, they might have players who could really take a leap and become incredibly exciting in ways that we don't anticipate, but they're not rock solid like bird in the hand kind of stars in the making. They would have to show something we just aren't expecting at all.
- [45:35]
B
Well, why don't we talk about right now because we're going to talk about the most intriguing teams at the deadline. We did the players version of this on Wednesday, so if you're interested in that, go back and listen to it. My first team is the Golden State warriors for this reason. I did like that as soon as the Giannis news hit one, you got to see how much podcasters were just waiting and dying for this to happen. I thought that we'd already done all of the Giannis like permutations, but the amount of emergency pods that just went through every team, like no shame whatsoever. It's been a pretty down trade season, especially compared to last year.
- [46:08]
C
How could we shame them when we are them?
- [46:12]
B
Well, I would say that we were a little bit more reserved even last pod. Yeah, we talked about it. We were basically like, we'll see. We think this is going to happen in the off season.
- [46:19]
C
That's big of us. Yeah.
- [46:22]
B
Nothing more than more than a lot of shame on this show. But I, I did find it funny that the warriors were talked about immediately and they were just the sweatiest, like sweating through two separate shirts. We got a tank and a shirt and a sweater and you can still see those stains because people were talking about them giving up all of their godd picks. I get it. It just shows what like a dire situation it is. Especially as Steph is now dealing with chronic knee soreness. Seems like it's not going to like push him out of any games we'll see this week but like that's something you got to consider. Yeah, it's just, I don't see it though. Like even if they get rid of everything. The players that they drafted in order to supplement their core aren't very interesting or all that helpful. And then those picks, like, yeah, maybe, but, you know, Steph is going to hang around for a while and if you get Giannis, like, you're going to be good for at least like another two to three years. So I don't see it, but they seem desperate as hell.
- [47:22]
C
Well, the picks that are attractive in that deal, and this is what I was alluding to in terms of the most appealing pieces to come back for Giannis in a potential trade. One of the reasons why the warriors are being taken very seriously in this regard is not because of those next couple of years. It's the 2030, 2032, and I guess a 2031 swap that they would be eligible to trade as well. And it's like by 2030, Giannis is 35. Steph is about to be 42 years old. Like, that is a different era of whatever. The warriors would even be post Giannis, where I think you could reasonably bet, okay, those teams are in a position to not be good, or Giannis might be in a position to retire, or Steph might already be retired. And so are the Bucks willing to play that long a game? I think is a fair question when I'm sure they want to reshuffle something in shorter order than that. And as you mentioned, Justin, like, they don't really own their own draft destiny to do that in an expedited manner.
- [48:16]
B
The.
- [48:16]
D
The aging Draymond, there are already people who are. Are, you know, eyeballing his regression as a player. Aging Draymond with Giannis, does that even work? That's kind of what. What I'm thinking about. It's like, yeah, you'd be probably talking about two to three years, but the availability of all of those guys being there together would make me extremely nervous if I'm Golden State. But they're in such a tough situation where I really don't. If you're aiming for the. If you're aiming for the stars, basically here. I understand. I wanted to say. Can I say something really quick, just draft related, like scouting related that happened. I just, I wanted.
- [48:52]
C
If it's about Bobs and Ducknut, can you give us the full scout, please?
- [48:57]
D
I just want to say, as someone who goes to games and watches prospects, I go to Louisville games from time to time, Kentucky games, where I go around as much as I can. I've always thought that they. They should add something with like, the driver's license where once you pass a certain age, you should take the test again. I've always thought that in terms of that ver. The version of that for scouts, I think every team in the league should go through their scouting department and look at the font size on every scout's phone. Because I have sat behind multiple times. Scouts, older scouts, whose fonts are so big on their phones that I, from, like, two rows back, read what they were writing about players. I won't name any names to protect the innocent here, but. Oh, my God. Anyway. Yeah, sorry, that was. I wanted to get that in. That happened this past weekend.
- [49:44]
C
What you're saying is not wrong. Like, I think we get where you're coming from. It is, however, deeply illegal. So, you know, like, you simply can't be firing scouts just because they're.
- [49:54]
B
So you get a snitch on Kyle.
- [49:56]
D
It is. No, he's saying.
- [49:59]
C
I'm saying the ageism complaints.
- [50:01]
D
I didn't read what I wasn't trying to read. It's just.
- [50:03]
C
Oh, no, you're.
- [50:03]
D
Sometimes it's so big, It's. Yeah, there's a drop. I'm trying to. So big you can't help but look. Yeah, it was. It was. It was shocking.
- [50:12]
B
Listen, if you have a phone open around me, I'm looking. I might not. I might not read. But if you're a scout and you're sitting in the row below me, I'm definitely trying, but a lot of them have, like, the. The screen protectors. That's how you know someone's young. They have that, like, things you cannot. Regular.
- [50:27]
C
Yeah. The privacy screen, phones up.
- [50:30]
B
I'm going to glance.
- [50:31]
C
Yeah, well, Justin, as someone, like, since you're in this game, would you feel the same if someone reads your. Your screen over your shoulder? Like, is that fair game? Because it's. It's all in it.
- [50:40]
B
You can, but you're in for a ride, my friend. What?
- [50:46]
C
There really is no one whose tabs and Internet history I would want to know more than Justin. Like, I. I just. I. Every time I think I know what's going on inside your mind, I take a corner and I'm like, whoa, there was something here that I was not supposed to see. And I'm gonna do a U turn and I never want to go back in there again.
- [51:04]
D
Shameless phone reader Justin Barrier. I didn't end up here.
- [51:07]
B
The only one of us who's texting on his. His laptop here. So it's all. It's all game. I'm very transparent with everything.
- [51:14]
C
I'll do the occasional laptop text. I just. That feels too exposed to be doing in a public space.
- [51:20]
D
Yeah, it's kind of a digital shit where you eat kind of thing. I just don't. I don't really. I just don't. You know, I don't have anything text wise that I'm worried about. It's just kind of. I just don't. I like to keep them separate, you know, if it's a personal computer, maybe, but I don't even know. This is just so far down. There's so many questions that are going to arise from this. I just don't prefer it.
- [51:41]
B
But yeah, listen, I just don't know how the warriors are going to get out of this river of shit here. They're going to crawl their way through it.
- [51:48]
D
Masterful.
- [51:49]
B
Just. It's tough. I just don't. If it's not Giannis, then what else? Sounds like, to Kyle's point, at the very least, they're probably going to trade Draymond as opposed to Jimmy. I think I would love to see the medicals on Jimmy on when he's going to come back. And I also have to wonder if it is going to be a big three of Jan is Jimmy's staff. That's great on paper, but like, how many games are those guys going to play together? How many games are two of those guys even gonna play? I also think it's gonna probably be like Al Horford probably still in the mix because he's on a player option next year. Melton's probably still there and they've been good for them lately. It's just like, I just don't see a path here. Rob.
- [52:28]
C
Yeah, I mean, they're a play in caliber team basically at best in their current form. And yet I. It would be such bush league shit to be like auctioning off pieces in real time from this team. And yet they don't really have the assets to do like. I mean, they do have the assets, but they shouldn't be investing those deep future picks for the sake of like a marginal like update or upgrade for the rest of the season. That wouldn't really make sense for them. So I don't really know what the sweet spot is because Steph clearly could use some help just to like get through the rest of this season alive. Like another ball handler would do wonders with this team, frankly. Or another person who could actually create offense would. Would do wonders. But like, if your best options are like finding takers for Draymond, attaching a shit ton of picks and Hoping beyond hope that Yan picks you. I think that speaks for itself in terms of where Golden State's situation is. Like, they. They really just do not have a lot of alternatives.
- [53:23]
B
I think the one ray of light they might have is that Steph being with the team for so long, unlike LeBron, for instance, with the Lakers, is, will he play ball in his later years? Will Steph say, I'm actually going to take minimums to finish out my career. And this is Giannis's thing now. And then you're looking at a Warriors team in a prime market with Steph Curry as like the. The emeritus superstar. Giannis is the current day superstar. And then let's attract somebody in free agency to come, then that makes sense. That requires a lot of, like, logical leaps in order to get to that point with Steph, but maybe something like that could happen. But until then, this is kind of who they are, unfortunately. Who do you guys want to talk about?
- [54:02]
C
I would like to go next, actually, with my most intriguing team, the Detroit Pistons, because I find myself wondering at this time of year, what sort of pressure does a team face when they are. We're recording this before they finish their game against the Nets. I'm going to assume they win that game and are 36 and 12 by the end of the day.
- [54:22]
B
They're currently up 45 points in the third quarter.
- [54:27]
C
Okay. It seems like a safe assumption.
- [54:29]
D
No way. Jaeger's been playing well. That could. They could come back.
- [54:32]
C
They could come back. Look, I'm not saying it's impossible, but. But, you know, come along with me and assume they're 36 and 12 with the best record in the Eastern Conference. And also most of their best players, if not all their best players, are under the age of 25. When all those things are true, what kind of pressure do you feel as a franchise to make a move? And I think during any kind of normal season, the answer would be not much. You would say they held their own against the Knicks in last year's postseason. Give them another chance, let them roll into it with more experience with a better roster, like, let's see what we can do. And there would be no pressure to do anything immediately because the team is still so young. There's lots of expectation they would continue to get like a guy like Jalen Duran is only going to continue to get better, for example. But this is not a normal season, and there's like an unusual opportunity at the top of the east to not just like, compete for it, but to secure it and to to be even more reliable than the Knicks would be, to be even more bankable than the Celtics might be going into the playoffs. And as for. As much as I would love to see the Pistons take a huge swing on somebody like Michael Porter Jr. Or Lowry Markin and or Trey Murphy, that would be really cool. That would make them one of the best and most complete teams in the league. I don't even think they need to go that far. Like, I think there's a lot of more minor moves that could potentially help them, but it all comes down to, like, how much they feel the pressure to actually make those moves when they're already leading the east by a pretty sizable margin.
- [55:56]
B
I think the issue would be offensively, and if you look at their January stretch here, they did perform well because their defense has just been lights out. It's like. It's like 105 defensive rating in January, which is, like, pretty great. Unfortunately, they were 17th offensively. And I think if we were to talk about this two months ago, I think we would say, let's see what you have in Jaden Ivey. You have a bunch of young guys in addition to him still kind of rounding into form. Let's see if Ron Holland can do offensively in addition to, like, trying to fight everybody. But Ivy hasn't missed a game, but he's only playing about 17 minutes here. And so I don't think internally the spark that they'll probably need to compete with whoever comes out of the west is there. And because they have such a prime window here in order to get to the finals and perhaps maybe put a good face forward and actually compete there, I think the time would be now to make as much of a swing as possible. I agree with you, though, Rob. You. If, if, like Porter Jr. If the price is too high, if Trey Murphy, the Pelicans don't decide to. To trade him this deadline, I think you got to get something because the offense is the one weak spot there.
- [57:00]
C
Yeah. And in particular, like, if you just look at the rotation, the spot that always jumps out to me is like, if we just got a little more out of the Javante Green type minutes.
- [57:10]
B
Right.
- [57:10]
C
The, like just kind of the. The plug and play. Like, this guy is good enough to play for our team, but no one guards him, and him playing hard only does so much on a team where, like, we already have a lot of guys who play really hard. If they could just upgrade marginally offensively in that spot, I think. I think that could help their. Their rotation, could help Shore A lot of things up and give you insurance for like the games where Duncan Robinson doesn't really fly. The games are. Tobias Harris isn't quite clicking. Like I think a forward would be ideal. But I'm also open to guard help too. Like if they can just find a score, a shooter of a kind, I think that could go a long way.
- [57:44]
D
Yeah. I think you're weighing the question of what is. Because they've, they've seemed pretty reticent to break up, you hear. Because everybody's assumption always is that like it's Tobias's money, that that's because that's the first place to make any kind of a big deal happen.
- [57:58]
C
Yes.
- [57:58]
D
I mean he's, he's on an expiring here at 26.6, but they, it seems like they've been insistent that he's like integral to what they do. They've got a few guys that you could package together that I think could make sense. I'm, I'm kind of trending in the, in the direction that I think Asar could be a pretty valuable thing for them to, to, to dangle to someone just because I think when the inevitable. I think that in the playoffs, I think when we see them run it back in the playoffs, I think that we're going to see more and more loading up on Cade. I just think that the defensive strategies are going to stress them to the point where I think they're probably going to have to get another major drink stirring kind of a star level player. Because another thing to consider here is that the east is. Indiana is going to be rebounding and coming back. Boston is slowly moving back towards.
- [58:43]
C
That's what I'm saying.
- [58:44]
D
And I think they're going to look just think. Yeah, there is a window in time here where I think they're, they're going to be forced to make a decision. Not to reiterate what you said, Rob, but I'm in agreement here.
- [58:54]
C
Yeah, it's true. It's like this is just not a normal opportunity where you should just behave like another young team would behave. Like I, I think they should be aggressive. It's just hard to talk yourself into it when you're already so good.
- [59:05]
B
So if it's not one of those marquee guys, do you have any other guys you're. You're targeting here?
- [59:10]
C
I think that's where it's tricky is like the forward market, it's hard to find like the Trey Murphy types are held so tightly by the teams that have them that finding Someone in that slot I think is more difficult, which is why I'm a little bit more open to a guard because I think they're more gettable. Right. Like we've talked about IU Dumu a lot. Malik Monk comes up often in these conversations as well. Even frankly, someone like Buddy Healed, like just another like, you know, a Tim Hardaway Jr. 2.0 type to just roll out there and hit shots when he hits and don't play when he doesn't. I think that could be the kind of like zone buster you need for some of those select games where teams are overloading on Cade, which I'm. I'm totally with you, Kyle. Like they will do. They already are doing teams guard Detroit pretty aggressively as it is. And you. You can see the writing on the wall with some of that stuff. If they don't have enough shooters in the rotation.
- [59:58]
B
Is Cam Thomas too guardi in order to fill the specific board you're talking about? Because he does have a lot of qualities that for instance, Malik Beasley brought to the table. Like, I almost feel like they do need that rational confidence guy. You're kind of circumst circling here.
- [60:12]
C
I mean, you're just forcing me to like, peer deep into my own soul to figure out if I think the solution to a problem is Cam Thomas. And the answer to that is no.
- [60:20]
B
But very gettable right now.
- [60:23]
C
I'm sure he's very gettable. I'm sure. I'm sure Jordy Fernandez would tell you how all. All of Cam's most attractive qualities for the sake of, you know, like, could you talk yourself into him?
- [60:35]
B
I hear what you're saying though. There's a lot of one way guys there and, and it built that defensive sort of. Of identity that they've coasted on for a while. But in the playoffs, if Duncan isn't hitting, do you have to turn to some of those defense first guys? Assar's offense has been shaky at times here I'm. I'm like, I'm teetering on. Is our SAR overrated? Like, have we just like completely overrated all of the Thompson bros? Prove me wrong.
- [61:00]
C
I mean, he proves you wrong all the time by being one of the best defenders in the world. What are you talking about?
- [61:05]
D
He is great. But it could come down to the. Like, you. You mentioned how they're so good now and it's like, well, that that's going to prevent. You know, if you're this good during the regular season, you know, are you. How tempted are you going to that playoff data return is. It can overrule a lot. It doesn't matter how good of a regular season that you had, all the feel good vibes can go away. We've seen this. I mean we saw it with the Cavs, you know, just recently had a great season. You get in the playoffs. It's a totally different animal when you have seven games to prepare for for somebody like a Cade Cunningham who is fantastic, you know. And I think once you, I just think think it may come down to it where they have to like have a serious conversation about like taking a chunk out of their identity for the piece that can kind of take them up to the next level. But man, I love watching the Pistons play and I Pistons fans, I'm not trying to wish this awesome thing away. We're thinking steps ahead here because this, this core that they have is so.
- [61:56]
C
Real and serious and it's really a question of. It's not even like is a SAR this or that? Is Ron Holland this or that? Is Jalen Duran this or that? It's like in combination. Will these guys make sense at a championship level? Clearly they work on an excellent regular season level. I think this team is already as constructed, good enough to probably win multiple playoff rounds if they kind of have their shit together and play up to their potential. But they've put themselves into a class where they can fairly consider more. And with that comes I think some of the fair criticism and kind of like a closer look at guys like Asar. Like you're alluding to jv, where it's like, like who. Who are these players really, these prospects in terms of where they are and what they can be. And I might be more bullish in the sense that Assar to me flashes enough of the like Alex Caruso style connectivity where it's not just a guy who can't shoot, but a smart cutter and a good passer who can help like find other ways into the offense that makes sense for him. But if those things aren't hitting, then everything kind of falls apart and it's like those are hard defenders to play sometimes where their offense starts to feel like a house of cards and if one thing does it pan out, then all of a sudden it's disaster.
- [63:02]
B
So slightly overrated. Not totally overrated.
- [63:05]
C
I don't. Overrated by whom?
- [63:07]
B
The consensus.
- [63:09]
C
The who is the consensus of the nerves. If it's the consensus of us, I feel good about where we have every player placed, but especially a star Thompson.
- [63:18]
B
I think the unfortunate part about what Detroit needs On that lower level, if we're saying they just need to like fix that one rotation spot is. Cleveland seems to have a lot of those guys. And considering their second apron problems, I do wonder if they would be the prime suspects to just jettison a guy if only to get them off their books. Like if they had a Max Drews for instance, and you can count on him shooting more consistently and being healthy like that makes sense. Even, even getting shooter back might be like the sort of shot in the arm sort of guy. But I just don't see them trading within their same division, let alone team they're probably gonna face in the playoffs.
- [63:51]
C
Or if they had gotten in on Keon Ellis, like, I think he would have made sense for them too.
- [63:54]
B
He would be good. Good. All right. Kyle, you want to do your team?
- [63:58]
D
Yeah, I do. I did. The. The Minnesota Timber Wolves is your research project. The Wolves of Timber of Minnesota very situation in. In Minnesota right now.
- [64:14]
C
Love it. Love a diorama. I would, I would love Kyle to have come in with like the trifold science fair board, big picture of Anthony Edwards in the middle, some like some, you know, a Bunsen burner going flask.
- [64:27]
D
Here's the thing about the three of us is I could see both of you being just like insanely detailed. You guys probably went balls to the wall with the dioramas in the, in the science fair. I know both.
- [64:37]
C
I am who I am.
- [64:38]
D
I knew it. I knew it.
- [64:39]
B
There's a stegosaurus one kicking around my parents house. I know that for a fact.
- [64:44]
C
Made out of play.
- [64:44]
B
D'oh. Yeah. I don't know if it was all that impressive because this was probably third grade or something, but. But I got down on the diorama stage.
- [64:53]
C
Okay. I mean it sounds precocious if nothing else.
- [64:56]
D
Any, any big time science fair action in your house, Rob. It's any. Can you remember any highlights?
- [65:01]
C
Well, I'm not a science kid personally, but the level of detail and exacting like methodology applies to basically the way I put together almost any like thing that I have to write myself. So you got me spiritually. But like let's be real. We're not science kids here. That's not how we ended up in this place.
- [65:19]
D
That's pretty true. I did like household acids. I think one time was one that I did. I was not very good at those.
- [65:25]
C
Anyway, let me tell you about one quick science fair detour my brother pulled off. I would consider the con of the century in his 5th grade science fair on the effects of caffeine. In various soft drinks. And the methodology for that experiment was invite a bunch of friends over, drink a bunch of different sodas, stay up all night playing Goldeneye on N64. So a visionary in the science fair spaces farm. As I'm concerned, the findings may be a little dubious, but are they more dubious than any other published research paper? I could.
- [65:56]
D
What was the, what was the data on that or just observation job allowed or not allowed?
- [66:01]
C
I mean, obviously not allowed. That goes against God and man. But I think, I mean, I think the data was as simple as like, how late did you stay up?
- [66:10]
D
Okay, yeah, that's rock rock solid and stands to scrutiny for sure.
- [66:15]
C
No extra kudos to him if he.
- [66:17]
D
Got away with it. If he got away with it. That's all that matters anyway. The Timberwolves, it's, it's no secret. I mean, the Wolves have the nucleus of something. The Pistons may find themselves in this situation a couple years from now where they're just retooling in the march and trying to figure out how to keep A, keep it going or B get over the hump or both. This team, we, I mean I think we can all. You were talking about the consensus of us, we all believe in their core with, with Ant and Julius Randle, I think has woven himself into that nicely. You know, Rudy Gobert obviously playing at a, at a depoy level and then DiVincenzo has sort of has fit in nicely as well. But the real thing that the, the issue that they've had, and it's been well documented, is the fact that their picks that they have aimed at this subject, at this need of, you know, bolstered scoring in their second unit. They need to solve this problem of second quarters not going particularly well for them on either end of the floor. Their young guys haven't panned out whether it's Leonard Miller, where It's Terrence Shannon Jr. Rob Dillingham was the guy that they went out and aggressively tried to go get. And these guys just aren't giving them what they need. And so it seems like they are. You know, they went on a five game skid here recently where this was very, very obvious. And I just wanted to present to the Midnight Society the question of how, who should they go after and how do they go about solving that problem? Because they need another score. They need some scoring in their second unit.
- [67:43]
C
They need another score. They might also need another big, I mean depending on what you think of, of, of Baron J and how like NBA like actually game ready he is for the games that matter right now.
- [67:55]
D
But I think a lot of him often all the time actually.
- [67:58]
C
But, but this is, this is kind of the thing is like from a, from a zoomed out perspective. I'm totally in agreement in like which parts of the game are the problem for them. Typically it's just, it's manifesting in a couple different ways. It's like it is the ball handling. It's also whenever Rudy Gobert is off the floor, they just kind of fall the shambles defensively and so they can plug either of those holes and I think be better off for it. I think addressing both of them with what they have would be incredibly difficult. But given that the guard like finding a workable guard is probably easier I would think than finding a playoff reliable NBA big right Justin, is that, is that reasonable?
- [68:34]
B
Well especially because you have to kind of navigate not necessarily to like distinct timelines, but there is a gap there where Rudy is probably going to age out at some point. I mean they're still over reliant on him and he's been very good defensively. But you do want to turn the keys over to Baron J pretty seamlessly. And I don't know how you get another big without sacrificing Berenger or getting a massive upgrade at guard without doing it with him because of the picks that Kyle was alluding to.
- [68:59]
C
And to be clear, like Bear J looks like he's going to be quite good at some point. It's just, it's just, it's just not in special.
- [69:05]
D
Yeah, he's special defensively. Like I, I there's you would have to cold dead fingers. I'm not getting rid of Aaron J. Not gonna happen. So that's definitely yeah but I do.
- [69:15]
B
Think like what's good about the guard thing is the type that they're looking for is gettable and I think the amount of money they would need in order to match on those guards is also not as difficult as is for some teams. Like for instance because we're basically trying to fill the Dillingham slash Bones slash. Maybe even Mike Conley sort of role Conley. I assume they wouldn't trade him if only because he means so much to the locker room. But it's getting pretty bleak. I think he like scored like four points a game in January.
- [69:46]
D
Are we, are we pushing Conley off the ledge from Midsommar here? Is that just like oh my. Justin's trying. Oh yeah.
- [69:53]
B
Let's try the bear out.
- [69:55]
D
Yeah.
- [69:56]
B
At the very least he, he could stay but they need someone who could potentially sop up his minutes not only this year, but going forward.
- [70:04]
C
Sure.
- [70:05]
D
I had some ideas I wanted to pitch to you guys. I was, you know, I gritted my teeth a little bit. Rob, could you mention his name? I think that my favorite one.
- [70:13]
C
Well, let's go.
- [70:13]
D
Let's go in reverse order here. Benedict Matheran is one that I think is interesting. The money there is a little. It's a little tricky. I mean, Dilly with, with Leonard Miller, Jalen Clark, I think Indy. I doubt that they're going to go for that just because I don't know that they're going to see that. I mean, Matheran is a guy who gave scoring punch in a finals. I think that, that, that, you know, that is something that is a big deal. And the problem that we're going to see recurring here is you're going to have to. You're going to have to see a team that is going to look at Dillingham and see him as a re. You know, a rehabbable asset and see something in Miller. Maybe he's not ready to play for the. For the Wolves, but he's ready to play for somebody that has a less on the line. That's one.
- [70:58]
B
That's my first carrot is the. The 2032 swap. Potentially.
- [71:02]
D
Yeah, you in all of these. That's the thing, is that these assets are so distressed that I think you would have to talk about the extra capital. I mean, do we agree on that?
- [71:11]
B
I think.
- [71:11]
C
I think so. And I think the part of the issue with this one too is Ben Matheran's about to be due for a new deal. And like, the Wolves have already moved significant parts of former versions of their team just to be able to diversify and have a little more depth and spread out some of their finances a little bit. So the idea of trading for Matheran only to then pay him when he might not even be a great fit, that might be too much to ask for them.
- [71:34]
D
Yeah, next one. I texted you guys when this happened. These two guys were covering their mouths for like four straight minutes on the league pass broadcast. I put on the tin foil sombrero. I was wondering about this. Ty Jerome comes back and has a great game for the Wolves. I mean, he's played in nine playoff games for the Cavs. I mean, he's a smart player, a proven player. Steadiness of hand. Leonard and Dilly is exact money. 8.7 million for Ty Jerome. Is that ridiculous? If you included other capital to balance.
- [72:06]
B
It out, he's Too good. I think Memphis needs him to be their starting point guard.
- [72:11]
D
That's not what I expected.
- [72:12]
C
They do need. I mean here's the thing. They need him, but also I to you, Kyle, how did those nine games with Cleveland go?
- [72:20]
D
It's true. This is true. I don't. But would he be stressed in the same way? Is there a way that you could look at this if you're Minnesota and say that was them, this is us. I don't know that our situation is different in a way that could protect him because was it an. Ultimately I'm trying to. What was it that jogged my memory. He was, Was he attacked defensively or did you just go to dog shit with his efficiency?
- [72:40]
C
He was attacked defensively and then he just had a couple of like extremely empty offensive games. And he's the one of, of. He's one of those players where like when he, he, he went all regular season hitting like every difficult jumper he ever took and then when they didn't start falling in the playoffs, his value just, I mean plummeted.
- [72:57]
B
But to that point the Cavs looked in disarray in large part I think because they couldn't lean on him with their second units. And so if you can believe in the fact that like guys need second chances and maybe if the, the Wolves playoff tested team could provide him the stability that perhaps he didn't get get with Cleveland. I think there's something to that. I am a little worried about the injuries. He just played his first game this year and if you're trading off like all of your future assets, that guy needs to play.
- [73:23]
C
And actually now, now that I'm thinking about it, like the specific combination of Anthony Edwards, Dante Divincenzo, put Julius Randle, put Rudy Gobert in this mix as well with Ty Jerome, best shit talking team in the NBA as far as I'm concerned. Like absolutely elite in let's. I'll be honest, the most important phase of battle basketball.
- [73:43]
B
It'd be better if Pippen was still there because Pippen almost fits their identity.
- [73:48]
D
He came to mind also. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [73:50]
B
That's unfortunate.
- [73:51]
D
Next one is Sadiq Bay, who's actually had a pretty decent scoring year. 6.1 million for two years, you'd have to do. It's the same, it's the same haul over and over again. The Pelicans are a team though that I could see looking at the Miller Dillingham combination and, and seeing something there that, that to me just, I don't know, we always do this with some of these teams like the Kings or the Pelicans, we're like, it's fun to step into their, their shoes because we all think they're irrational. I think it's probably what I'm saying ultimately. But that's one, I mean, but the other thing here is that's another risk because Bay had kind of like receded into not playing well and he's had a little bit of an uptick on a team that sucks. So is that really worth betting on?
- [74:34]
C
Well, first of all, I would say it's quite a bit more than a little uptick. I would put. Sadiq Bay is maybe like the single standout in the NBA right now. Of like I look at a Pelicans box, I'm like, sadiq Bay did fucking.
- [74:46]
B
What, like 28 on 20 shots?
- [74:48]
C
Yeah. 36 shots on 18 attempts. Like just, or 36 points. Like he'll just have these crazy like scoring outbursts above and beyond what you would ever think Sadiq Bay would be capable of. Yes, the context is what it is. That's an awful team. There's lots of opportunity for him to take those shots. I think like, like his particular combination of shooting and rebounding has proven to be quite useful to the Pelicans. I, I, I, I hesitate to say they would be as useful to a team like the Wolves. Like on paper. Sure. Skill set. Sure. Sadipe is someone who, like, I'm always wondering if he's like really locked in in the way that the Wolves are a Western Conference finals level contender year in and year out and it's like, is he locked in on that level to compete, compete to those standards with these guys? I might be a little skeptical, but sometimes you have to roll the dice with guys you're not quite sure about. If you're in the Wolf's position.
- [75:39]
B
Can I throw one out there?
- [75:40]
D
Yeah.
- [75:42]
B
Not only another guy, but another tie. What about Ty? Is Jones okay?
- [75:47]
C
That's not another tie.
- [75:50]
B
He's a tie. Tyus Jones for Rob Dilling. Hand, straight up, no picks or like if it's a, if you need a sweetener, it is, it's a second or something. You don't have to dig into your capital. Ty Jones isn't really playing much for Orlando.
- [76:03]
C
No.
- [76:04]
B
And he's on a one year deal so they'd have to resign him after this. You could see like maybe getting something a little bit more long term. Dillingham, I don't know if he's a perfect fit, but you could try to rehab him and fill the void different types of players. But based on this, the scrunches going on right now in your faces, my guess is maybe hard.
- [76:22]
D
I just don't, I don't.
- [76:23]
C
I'm in a lot of pain. I don't like this. I don't like this either team somehow out.
- [76:28]
D
I'm extremely worried about Dillingham to the point of like it's going to. He's going to have to win me back. But I'm not like he's absolutely hopeless. And I'm not trading, I'm not trading a. That kind of asset for like a neutral, flacid guard. I mean like, yeah, he's like low turn. Both the Jones brothers, I mean it's like they're just like, they're low turnover but they're also no risk at all. So it's just like we're just, we're just kind of going in a circle and I don't think that would solve my problem. My last one.
- [76:58]
C
Well, I'm just, I'm just happy that we've entered a phase of a softer, gentler Justin too. Like every, every pod, you're trying to trade a player home again and I see what you're doing with Tyus Jones, son of Minnesota. And I, I just, I like this Teller at heart. He really is.
- [77:12]
D
Yeah, that's right. The last one. Malik Monk, you mentioned him. I think basketball wise, I think Malik Monk would be perfect for this team.
- [77:22]
B
Team.
- [77:22]
D
I think he can come in and have heat checks. I think you can throw him on the floor. I think he could be protect. Protected defensively. You can have him be your fifth guy that you hide. I, I think he would balance off of Ant and Julius Randall and go bear so perfectly. The thing is, you know, 18.7 million for three years, that's the case. You'd have to go Dillingham, Miller, Conley's expiring and you'd have to throw some draft capital towards them. But he has been scorching catch and shoot from 3.46.4% and he's, he's an unrestricted free agency in or free agent in 28, 29. I would try to make that happen. I, I think he has good basketball left in him. That would, that would be a fun one. But that's a lot to give up for. For a Malik mug.
- [78:02]
B
It is.
- [78:03]
C
But we can dream.
- [78:05]
B
Yeah, I like it. I think it's a good idea. I had similar types of guys. I had Cam Thomas written, I had IOD because he's in every trade rumor possible from Here until Thursday. Yeah. Oddly enough, Dumu and Kobe White are the same age. Like, White's about to turn 26 to Sumu's, like, slightly older, different draft classes.
- [78:22]
C
That's kind of crazy.
- [78:24]
B
Here's a question for you.
- [78:25]
C
Okay.
- [78:25]
B
If you had to choose one for the Bulls, which one are you protecting? Which one are you trading? Has been awesome lately. He just had, like.
- [78:34]
C
He's been incredible.
- [78:35]
B
29, 8 and 9 against the Heat with nobody else around him.
- [78:39]
D
I like the Sumu. I feel like he's a little more malleable to forward thinking than Kobe. I mean, I kind of expressed this on our last episode with the way that Kobe's wired as a scorer. What do you think, Rob?
- [78:51]
C
I kind of think I would lean to Sumu, too. Just because we've had so many questions all year about Kobe, White, his place in the lineup, the balance not always being what we want off of, like, even just like him and giddy on a fundamental level. Like, do those guys work together? The answer is kind of. And I think you want more than a kind of when you're talking about the core elements of your team.
- [79:09]
B
Team. I think they're natural bedfellows with the Wolves for that reason. I know we keep circling it, but I think it's just because it makes a ton of sense for both sides. And maybe the Bulls are accepting two seconds for Dario Sars, like, contract. Maybe they're thinking ahead too, so.
- [79:25]
C
Well, this is what I'm hoping for.
- [79:26]
D
The.
- [79:26]
C
As far as the Malik Monk trade as well, Kyle, it's like we just. We just saw the Kings do some random shit for absolutely no reason. So maybe it wouldn't take that much to get Malik Monk off their hands.
- [79:36]
D
Well, to make the money work, I mean, it. I. Dylan or Conley would have to be in.
- [79:40]
B
Yes.
- [79:40]
D
I'm just trying to.
- [79:41]
C
I think that's a requirement. Yeah.
- [79:43]
D
And it's an expiring.
- [79:44]
C
I mean. Yeah.
- [79:46]
B
All right, well, why don't we wrap it there? When we come back on Thursday for our trade deadline podcast Extravaganza, we'll be talking about actual trades, not just fake ones that we're pulling out of our butt.
- [79:58]
C
We talked about v Krei Chi today. We talked about DeAndre Hunter slash. Really? The Keon Ellis headlining deal?
- [80:04]
D
I know ball. Keon Ellis. Yep.
- [80:07]
B
Vicreshy is definitely I know ball sort of guy.
- [80:11]
C
Should we do an I know ball, like, All Stars at the end of the season or something like that?
- [80:14]
D
I love it. I love it.
- [80:16]
B
Corey Kisper, remember, like, two years ago, Corey Kisper, like, needed a new contract and everyone and their mother was basically like, this guy. Every team wants him, everyone can use him. And then he finally gets traded and it's just like, all right, I guess we never had to hear from this guy for, for six months.
- [80:33]
C
He's, he's fine. To good. You know, it's, it's. Those are the players that make the league go round.
- [80:38]
D
I've always said for years it was Delon Wright. Everybody was. You never talked to somebody who everybody was like, you know, I like Delon, right? It was just such a low stakes thing to say. Everyone said it. They were just like, he's cheap. He does everything. Delon, right, man. Love that guy. And he never sticks with the team.
- [80:55]
C
But guess what happened in last year's playoffs. He came off the bench with the Knicks. Killed it. You know, the Landry Shamit stock, the Delon Wright stock, they really cashed. You know, they really came up in a big way.
- [81:06]
B
This is a good idea, though. We should do this later in the season.
- [81:09]
C
Let's pocket that one.
- [81:10]
B
I'm completely tapped. Ideas, but not on Thursday. My friends, coming to you live after, live to tape after the deadline. So we'll be talking to you then. Until then, thank you to Isaiah Blakely. Thank you to Victoria Valencia. Thank you to Ben Cruz. We'll talk to you on Thursday afternoon. 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 and present in D.C. kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-Gambler or visit rg-help.com, call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.com in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 20247 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text Hopeny in New York. For Louisiana, call 1-877-770-7867.