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The Ringer NBA Show
Can the Rockets and Pistons Pull Off History? Plus, the Cavs Are Kinda Back and More Bad Lottery Reform.| Group Chat
01:14:00
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- [00:00]
Rob Mahoney
Foreign.
- [00:17]
Justin Varrier
Hello and welcome to Group Chat. I am Justin Varrier. And joining me the two runners up for the Dwyman Stokes Award, Rob Mahoney. J. Kyle Mann. Congratulations guys. But not quite your year bust yet.
- [00:29]
J. Kyle Mann
That's no chance I get this one.
- [00:32]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, I thought Kyle should have won it. You know, this is. This is me like opening the door teammate style so that I can backdoor win teammate of the year. But I guess DeAndre Jordan won it. So what are we to do?
- [00:42]
Justin Varrier
Do either of you guys know who Twyman or Stokes are?
- [00:47]
Rob Mahoney
I'm gonna be honest with you, I thought it was one name and not a hyphenate. They're two different guys.
- [00:52]
Justin Varrier
But whenever I say Twyman, it makes me sound like I have a lisp or like I'm saying something particularly twee like Twyman. That's a very weird word to say.
- [01:02]
J. Kyle Mann
Yeah.
- [01:03]
Justin Varrier
But his legacy lives on in being the best teammate this year. Unfortunately it didn't go to Rob or Kyle and went to DeAndre Jordan. Yeah, who just hung out most of the year for the Pelicans. Did start a couple of games improbably. But congrats to him for being just like a jolly good chum.
- [01:18]
Rob Mahoney
But that's a team that needs good teammates. You know, if you're going to be a Pelican, you need someone to console you on a near constant basis.
- [01:24]
J. Kyle Mann
Good couple of good clips that got around of him with his arm around Derrick Queen. You know, you just got to get just a few good opportunities. That's really all it's about. You just got to get the right shot. It's not unlike an Oscar where you get a close up, you get a little Mark Ruffalo. We knew just put a little lump into it and you get your little self a little Twyman Stokes Award.
- [01:43]
Justin Varrier
Yeah. I think the question is like, will he be able to be a teammate next year? Our teams just gonna like carry him around almost like Taj Gibson because he's such a good guy. Like at a certain point do you become such a good guy that you could be a good guy for as long as you want?
- [01:57]
Rob Mahoney
I don't know if it's quite as long as you want. And certainly if you have the institutional like reputation of a Udonis Haslam type with one team. Yeah, he, he could have stuck around basically as long as he could have wanted signed his own ticket. Now he's broadcasting. Good for him. But I mean DJ is a notoriously a famously good hang among NBA players who really enjoy his company. I do think it's a good spirit to have in a locker room. I think he, I think he could go on a, on a 40 year old Taj Gibson trajectory. Why not?
- [02:28]
J. Kyle Mann
Well, there's the dark side of this too where if you're a James Johnson, where if you're a good teammate for other reasons, you know, like put a little, put a little neck in there, put a little elbow in there, you can hang around. You know, James wasn't going to be contributing because they were just remember how that all went down. They were like we're getting picked on. We gotta, we gotta get some good teammate scrap vibes in here. So it can go both ways.
- [02:50]
Rob Mahoney
This is the JV model, right? Like the who do you not want to meet in a back alley? Justin Barrier. James Johnson maybe on the wrong day, DeAndre Jordan, I don't know.
- [02:58]
J. Kyle Mann
Pruning shears in a back alley with Justin.
- [03:01]
Justin Varrier
Yeah, I'll bite. I'll do whatever I have to do. But I have to say, charmed life for DeAndre Jordan, first team All NBA, improbably defensive player of the year. Now he just might be running an organization because he's a good old guy. Love that for him.
- [03:16]
Rob Mahoney
Absolutely.
- [03:17]
Justin Varrier
Well, enough random talk about DeAndre Jordan on April 29th in the midst of the first round of the NBA playoffs. We've got some history afoot potentially. Gentlemen, three games on the docket tonight. We'll talk about them all right after this.
- [03:32]
Rob Mahoney
The Ringer NBA show is brought to you by FanDuel. The NBA postseason is here and FanDuel knows the only thing better than watching your favorite team win is winning along with them. FanDuel is the best place to bet the teams, players and plays during their playoff run. Build a same game parlay or try live betting and jump in after tip off. Don't forget, with FanDuel you get paid instantly when you win. Download the FanDuel sportsbook app now and play your game 21 plus in select states. 18 plus for DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. A gambling problem. Call 1-800- GAMBLER call 1-887-897777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut.
- [04:06]
J. Kyle Mann
This episode is brought to you by McDonald's. Fill up like every day is game day with the under $3 menu at McDonald's. A sausage McMuffin for just a dollar fifty and when it's time for lunch, grab a McDouble for only $2.50. McValue gives players, fans and everyone in between more action for less a sauce McMuffin is basically official breakfast of tip off day in my opinion. Get even more value with McValue. Only at McDonald's. Limited time only. Prices of participation may vary. Prices may be higher for delivery.
- [04:36]
Justin Varrier
All right, three games tonight which is always difficult to track. So you got the multi view going on there. Do you guys have. What are you doing? You got two screens going at once. You got once one laptop, one big. We got two big screens going. What's the setup?
- [04:49]
Rob Mahoney
Well, it's got to be multiple screens. We're men of the future, right?
- [04:53]
Justin Varrier
Not me, I'm.
- [04:54]
J. Kyle Mann
No, I'm just.
- [04:55]
Justin Varrier
What are you doing?
- [04:56]
Rob Mahoney
How are you watching both?
- [04:58]
Justin Varrier
Well, one is on a laptop but am I a man of the future in general? No, I'm out here just. I'm gardening. I'm actually preparing for the post future the apocalypse where I have to feed my entire neighborhood. But we'll get to that later perhaps.
- [05:10]
Rob Mahoney
That is revolutionary of you.
- [05:12]
J. Kyle Mann
I'm still stringing along the PS4. The PlayStation 4 has become my. The NBA app. Barely loads on it and it's. It's just like circling me and I'm not sit there for a minute. If I press the button it has to catch up but. And then I got my other computer screen. So it's a. It's a pretty good. I'm a. I'm a screens guy. I like to have good screens at my disposal. And on special nights when we don't have to pod, I get out the big projector out there, I sit out there by myself.
- [05:37]
Justin Varrier
It's a little.
- [05:38]
J. Kyle Mann
It's a little sad to sit out there by myself in the dark. But I need company. Nobody will ever come over. Actually I don't want company. I don't want people volunteering for that.
- [05:46]
Justin Varrier
The com.
- [05:46]
J. Kyle Mann
The company I want. But yeah, I'm a screens guy. I like. I like a good media experience. It's important to me.
- [05:52]
Rob Mahoney
I do think that's a decadent experience that you've concocted. Kyle, the projector outside. I'm imagining you like above ground pool that you've installed yourself. Maybe a pizza ordered in, you know, really pamper yourself.
- [06:03]
J. Kyle Mann
150 inches. Big ass screen. Give me that.
- [06:08]
Justin Varrier
So we have a potential coming back from three that we have to talk about with the Lakers and the Rockets. But first we have to talk about another one where the Pistons are on the verge of being. What is it, the seventh one eight upset that we've seen. And actually I think it's only would be the fifth in the post five game. First round series era, so still flirting with that. But they also have the potential to upset the upset and be the first team to come back from down 3:1 in the first round, I believe. I think we've seen it in other instances, obviously most recently with the warriors and the cast Cavs, but I don't know, I almost feel like this is a whole like, call the police, but not for me sort of situation when Cade Cunningham has the game that he had tonight.
- [06:53]
Rob Mahoney
Rob. Yeah, I mean, it certainly does, especially when you're calling the police. Not for me, because the ambulance needs to come pick up Franz Vogner. And the entire series has changed overnight, which is in part why Cade went absolutely hog wild. Like no one else on the Magic, to be honest with you, can really guard him. These other wings are good defenders in their own right. Jamal Kane, a good defender. Desmond Bane, especially for a. A star or a quasi star, pretty solid defender. They just look so small against Cade Cunningham, and he's just like one bump shooting over the top of those guys. He played a great game. But I would say more broadly, watching the pistons put up 38 in the first quarter, I mean, it's like watching man discover fire. Like, this was something I just never thought at any point in these playoffs we would see. And it. It was magical to behold.
- [07:36]
J. Kyle Mann
Both of these teams are so top heavy, though. If you just look at the box score, it's like, you know, granted, your rotations, they shrink as you go along in the season. There's no. There aren't many examples of teams going, you know, 10 deep, you know, with a lot of production down the line. But this was a fun night because we got dual dueling number one pick Banjos from between. Between Kade and Paolo. Paolo making threes, that was something else. But.
- [07:59]
Rob Mahoney
Oh, my God.
- [08:00]
J. Kyle Mann
Yeah, you. You look at the margin. Margins of this game and kind of where who did what and how and things like that, and it was pretty close, but it didn't really ever. It always just kind of felt like the Magic were, you know, spinning plates to stay in it, and they managed to do it and keep it interesting. But I don't know. I. I don't. I don't know if I feel comf. You're saying, like, you know, is this the situation where the Magic are going to. Are in the position to, like, hopefully not blow it? I feel like they've been really fortunate to be in the situation. I have no clue who's going to win this series. I don't really know who. Who's Blowing it at this point.
- [08:36]
Justin Varrier
Interesting. I actually came away pretty bullish off the Magic on this one because I think you probably fall on one of two camps here where you say outside of like the start where Kate had two early turnovers and I was like, oh, what's going on here? I think his dominant performance, you have to come away feeling pretty good in particular because Franz isn't there. You wonder if maybe that's enough so he can shine. And that is the difference that they've been waiting for. Because if you look at the box score, it's like, I think Tobias Harris has been steady, but where else are you going to get the supplementary offense? And especially when a SAR goes out late in the game for a stretch because I think he rolled his ankle, you're like, oh, this like the margins thin very quickly. Where on the other end, I feel like Paulo really had it going tonight. And in particular when like, he would get underneath into the paint and. And spray it out to three when Wendell Carter Jr. Is hitting, like, then you're like, oh, there are three, like credible three point shooters that they're just passing around the arc between Bane and Suggs and. And Carter. I'm like, that's a pretty like, good approach. Even with Jamal Kane in there playing in the Franz Vagner role. And so I thought the Magic were going to come back in this and just take it over because it just seems like they just have so much more juice. Anthony Black also had some moments, also had some very bad moments. But, like, there's, like, there's just stuff there. Whereas, like, it feels like Rob with. With the Pistons, like, it's just so hard. It requires Cade to be just electric in order for them to have a chance.
- [09:55]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, they did a. A handful of things, I would say that kind of moved the needle for them ever so slightly in this game. One of them is just like Kade dominating the way that he did and. And the downstream effects of that, that's clearly very important. Coming out with a pace where you're forcing the Magic to scramble back and assemble their defense on the fly, I thought did them a lot of good. They ended up with, I think their second highest point, like points in transition, fast break points of the series so far. It felt that way in terms of being able to be opportunistic and actually feast in those moments. The hyperactivity on the glass, especially with Thear and his offensive rebounding, I thought was huge. But also like, they shifted the rotation so that they had, you know, more ball handlers on the floor consistently. Like little things that I thought that gave them a little bit more solvency. I just wish they had given themselves a little more of that margin for error you're talking about, Justin, because this feels like the kind of thing where maybe they have made enough gains in this series to tilt some things in their favor. But do I believe that they're going to have back to back games in which absolutely nothing goes wrong for them? I just don't really see that for the Pistons at this point.
- [10:59]
Justin Varrier
Also getting pretty feisty out there, Kyle. Well, yeah, I counted four dust ups. Another brouhaha.
- [11:06]
J. Kyle Mann
Lot of diving, a lot of scrapping.
- [11:08]
Justin Varrier
If you were going to involving Desmond Bane.
- [11:11]
J. Kyle Mann
Yeah, yeah. Not surprisingly feisty Bane. We started the season with him spiking the ball off somebody. We were like what's going on?
- [11:17]
Rob Mahoney
What was, what's going on with this
- [11:18]
J. Kyle Mann
dude is he brought a lot of that like up the chimney kind of vibe with him to, to Orlando. Yeah, I mean the Pistons. You, you missed. You mentioned the, the offensive rebounding thing. I, I was talking about, you know, trying to figure out what spiked and what, you know, what, what kind of was an indicator of why Detroit led this whole game. I mean they, they were, they got as close as 2 at about the 8 minute mark, 9 minute mark in the third quarter at you know, 79, 61. But they stayed ahead the whole game. But the, the offensive rebounding 16 to 8 in, in Detroit's favor. So just creating kind of these. I was talking with somebody, a scout earlier today about kind of what the modern NBA is and if you look at a lot of the, the. I was trying to figure out how many like dribble pull up shooters are in this Detroit Orlando series. It's like Bain Cade's cadence. An okay dribble pull up shooter, but like guys that are kind of dictating what's going on. It's like really not. I mean Duncan's not. He's. Duncan's a catch it shooter, a movement shooter. It's like, it's interesting even if you like expand it to like Houston and la. It's like these playoffs have been just very, very just slobber knocker, tough, scrappy. It's. It's not been a like live and die by the jump shooter. You know, aside from like the Knicks and then the Cavs have two. Have two of them. But that's been a theme that's jumped out to me among these teams.
- [12:40]
Rob Mahoney
Well, I think especially among the longer running series in which neither team can really Get a foothold. Because if you have one of those guys, if you have, say, for example, Shay, Gil, just Alexander on your team, you just run roughshot over even good defensive opponents. And I. You could make the same argument for Stefan Castle and what he was doing off the dribble or kind of like off the dribble while being. Being unguarded by Portland's bigs. I think Paolo kind of filled some of that role in this game though, to be honest. Like, he was catching on the weak side and hitting threes, but he was body.
- [13:10]
J. Kyle Mann
How replicable do we think it is? Because he's pretty judicious too.
- [13:13]
Rob Mahoney
Yes, that part I would say was not. But the part that I feel really impressed by was just the ease of getting downhill. I mean, he's just like, is an effortless mismatch creator anytime he wants it. And I thought he did a great job in this game in particular of really hunting those down, forcing the issue, getting into the paint. Justin talked about the spraying out for threes. I just thought this was like the platonic ideal Palo game. Even if you want to put the three point shooting aside, it just who he was as a driver and a rebounder and a team creator. That's kind of the guy that a lot of people have been waiting for.
- [13:46]
Justin Varrier
Magic also missed practically half their free throws. And it's the type of thing that like players and coaches will turn to after the game. I think Powell pointed toward it as like being the decisive thing. I kind of agree with them because, like, if they just made a few more of those, I think they're more in it late there and things might have turned. And so you got to be feeling pretty good. If you're the Magic, I would say in Detroit's favor. These games are basically fisticuffs. And like, if you're meeting your opponent on that playing field, at the very least, like, they could throw some haymakers. They're used to doing that. Like, this isn't like a stylistic battle where you have to like figure out something. It's really is like just. Just working your advantages better than your opponent. I kind of know what's going to happen in this game. I feel like within the first couple minutes, it does feel like whoever like lands the first uppercut, it usually goes their way. And the fact that like the Pistons had control this early, it really went that way. I. I just worry going back to Orlando now that Orlando somehow as the eighth seat has turned this to them having home court advantage for the time being. It's just it sucks because I almost feel like that is the marginal advantage, that it's going to tilt this series at this point. I just. I just don't know where all, like, anything extra is going to come from, Kyle, when it comes to the Pistons.
- [14:59]
J. Kyle Mann
Well, that's what I'm speaking to is that when I was saying I don't really truly know. The Franz thing is a big, outstanding, you know, matzo ball hanging out there. But it's like you, you, you think of the. It didn't feel like there was a terrible distance between these two teams. Granted, they did get the out of body Palo thing. Are you going to get that again at this point? Do I trust Cade a little more to be consistent and kind of be the same guy game to game? Yeah, a little bit.
- [15:22]
Justin Varrier
But.
- [15:22]
J. Kyle Mann
But it does seem like Paolo. Paolo mentally has just gotten himself into a record groove in this series, and I don't know if that's a function of them really not truly having a. You know, Tobias is strong enough to kind of contain and, you know, Justin, you and I like going through and just sort of like assessing these draft prospects is just kind of where my mind is, where I'm just looking at these guys. I'm like, okay, that guy's long and disruptive like an asar, and he can kind of wiggle and kind of COVID ground. And then there are the guys that are strong enough to wall up and contain and stuff like that. And it's like Tobias is so narrow, and it's like when he goes to contain Pa, he can take his bump and he's like, yeah, I'm right here. But the moment that Pao got low and wiggled, Tobias was just like, where. Where'd he go? He was just like, look at it. Like, he just went right by him. But speaking to just sort of like how I think the series could go, I just. I feel like the environment down there. Orlando can get a good environment going. It's chippy. You're talking about just kind of winning in the margins and scrapping and things like that. I feel like Orlando could put something like that, that together. How many more. How many more buttons are there to push? Like you were saying, how many more ways are there for. For them to sort of set up Cade to do what he does? Well, I just can't get away from the fact that this has been such a, like, turn back into a pumpkin series for. For Durin. Yeah, I'm. I'm. I'm just kind of. I'm right there in the middle. When I balance all those things. I could see this going either way.
- [16:46]
Rob Mahoney
I think the Durin stuff is sort of emblematic of the uphill battle that the Pistons face, where you can see even like coming out of the gate for this one, right? They clear aside for Duran to post up. He gets an and one going against Wendell Carter Jr like a great way to jump start him in this kind of game. And then over the course of the 48, those sorts of scenarios just get harder and harder to concoct because the magic are onto your schemes. They get a sense of your misdirection, like they're not going to fall for every little fake pick and roll that you run preceding the actual pick and roll you want to run. And so it just gets more and more difficult to get Durin with any kind of flow, any kind of momentum, any kind of space for himself. And so everything he gets, he kind of has to like, create out of chaos or out of like just bullying someone out of the way for an offensive board. I don't see that changing. I don't see, I don't see the terms changing for a lot of the Pistons role players in a way that like, Cade does have to kind of create everything. And the, the one place I would push back. Kyle, when you were saying you kind of trust him more than Paolo, I thought game 4k kind of like spun out a little bit during the closing stretch of that game. And really, like some of the turnovers were uncharacteristic. He's had moments in the series where he just like, did not look himself as a playmaker. And for, I think a variety of reasons, he kept his head on his shoulders all throughout this one. I thought he was just in much better command of setting the stage for everything that the Pistons needed to do. But we know that Orlando's defense can test him and I fully expect in at least one of these games they'll push him a little bit more again.
- [18:11]
Justin Varrier
Were you allowed to take away Jalen Duran's all NBA votes? Like, since we're taking away Rookie of the Year from Khan because of the play in like, can we just take back everything that happened in the regular season?
- [18:20]
Rob Mahoney
Well, we didn't take that away from Khan because of the plan. The rightful voters amassed and I went to the meeting and we voted for Cooper Flag because he was the best rookie, best ban.
- [18:30]
J. Kyle Mann
Yes, all. All these, like, catchalls that reward on ball players. Like, if you want to just point to those.
- [18:36]
Rob Mahoney
I literally didn't point to a single one.
- [18:38]
J. Kyle Mann
Your little breakout Videos. I just. Whatever. We don't get to read litigate that.
- [18:43]
Justin Varrier
But yeah, here's the key variable, I think, for the series shame, because the 18 is. Is pretty tough. I was going through the history here. So I mentioned before, there's been six of these 18 upsets in history before, and most of them you could find something to be like, well, what about this, right? Like, two were five game series, as I alluded to. Nuggets over Sonics and the Knicks beat the Heat. Right. So those are five gamers. One is the lockout shortened season. The Knicks were not in eighth seat that year. Two injuries as well. Derrick Rose going out in game one and then most recently in. In 2023 when Giannis was out. And then. Then the Heat beat the Bucks. There's little, little things to note there. There's one sort of thing to. To know with the Grizzlies and the spurs, because Manu was basically playing through, if I recall, like a broken hand. I think he miss basically wasn't right the entire year. The one that's like legit, like you can't like pull any like, like threads on them, was obviously the we believe Warriors.
- [19:40]
J. Kyle Mann
Yeah.
- [19:41]
Justin Varrier
Probably the best first round series in history. Certainly my favorite one. Look at my stuff.
- [19:49]
J. Kyle Mann
Long before Laura Dern. Yeah, I think that's what got him.
- [19:54]
Rob Mahoney
Laura Dern? Yeah. Like, Laura Dern saw the tape, she pulled up NBA tv, she's like, oh, my God, this dunk he had over the Jazz in the second round, like, give. Give me some of that.
- [20:02]
J. Kyle Mann
She knows. She know. Yeah. I just think, like, that's the history, though.
- [20:07]
Justin Varrier
Like.
- [20:08]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [20:08]
Justin Varrier
I mean, if this happens, this is the one case where it's like, no, this team just got beat. Like, the eighth seed was just better. This wasn't like some fluke thing or like an injury that changed the circumstances going into it. They just got beat.
- [20:21]
J. Kyle Mann
Oh, I think if being present here in the time and if you're following the league in the past few years, it's kind of like, okay, the Pistons have been kind of putting it together. They're on their upward rise. They're on their. Like, we're figuring out who we are, how to address the information that we get from being in the playoffs. They're ascendant. The magic kind of spun. We're in that position. Do you remember how much we loved the freaking Magic? Every poll that the staff did, it was just like, man, I love the magic. It was kind of the hipster thing to say. It was just like, I love to watch them, you know, it's like two big six, 10 ball handlers, and it was like, they.
- [20:56]
Rob Mahoney
Guilty.
- [20:57]
J. Kyle Mann
The Magic are just like two or three phases ahead of where the Pistons are headed, and they've kind of. They've hit some of the strife and they've had problems and they've. And you know, whether or not the coach is going to get fired. So we talked about this in the beginning of the series where I said that I thought that the Magic, pound for pound, probably had more talent than. Than the.
- [21:16]
Justin Varrier
Than the young love versus someone who's been through the battles and knows what love is. Right?
- [21:22]
J. Kyle Mann
Yeah, but.
- [21:23]
Rob Mahoney
But maybe it's not entirely, like, clear at this point, but I will say this too. Like, one thing the Magic have going for them that I feel like we just kind of glo over in the larger existential debates about specifically Paolo Banchero. Like, this guy does show up, even if it's a die on your shield kind of game. Like, this was his playoff career high 45. But overall, for his playoff career, he's played 17 playoff games, seven with 30 plus points. Like, he just can do this and put a team in an offense on his shoulders. Especially looking at teammates who are, you know, passing up open shots, who. Who can't penetrate a crowded lane, like, who are stuck in ways that he is not. He has all of these other very frustrating things in the regular season, and the inefficiencies are what they are. Like, that's all just kind of baked in and part of his game, but he's also this guy. And to have a player like this, in addition to all of that existing turmoil, all of that experience having your ass kicked, being humbled, having the regular season that they had, and I think most importantly, getting close to feeling like you're going to lose it. There's just a desperation to Orlando that I really respect. And at this point, I really like watching.
- [22:33]
J. Kyle Mann
I was called most teams. That's what I always call them. Like, you gotta feel the. I think I said this on this pod. It's just like that. It's a. It's a cancerous trait in a team when they can't feel urgency unless there's, like, imminent. You know, unless there's imminent disaster pressing down on them. And it's like, if that's what it takes for Orlando, I mean, they're gonna. They're gonna hit different issues as the teams get smarter. But. But I. I just circle back to. Again, I just. I don't know that the gap was really all that big between these two teams. Their circumstances are very different, but I don't know that the gap was all that big. We're seeing that.
- [23:05]
Justin Varrier
Yeah, Yeah. I just want to. When Rob was talking, I wanted to cut to Paulo during the regular season. Just like playing pickup sticks in the middle of the game.
- [23:11]
Rob Mahoney
I mean, it happens.
- [23:12]
Justin Varrier
Completely space it out and.
- [23:14]
Rob Mahoney
So weird.
- [23:15]
Justin Varrier
It is weird. We've seen that a couple instances where guys just like turning it on in the postseason. Maybe they're just like doing a discreet way of like trying to get them to. To limit the regular season. So we go back to 65 games or something, but I don't know. But this is the case for it because these guys turn it up when it matters.
- [23:30]
Rob Mahoney
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- [24:04]
Justin Varrier
We'll see how that goes going forward. Let's go to the Rockets. Now this. This was a tough watch. I gotta be honest. The Rockets win. I thought that like LeBron was gonna wait, lay in wait and ultimately come back because he did turn it on late there. There really wasn't much else going for the Lakers in this game. Ayton had some moments. JJ decided to just play Reeves into the ground immediately, which I think was a sign of their desperation. I think sign of their desperation going forward. If they're so worried if this continues on, especially considering, like, what do we know about LeBron in Game 6 and Game 7, considering his age. But I thought LeBron had it. And then he just started jacking threes and just didn't give a shit about anything else. Anytime he got his hands on the ball, he was just jacking. And they find themselves going back to Houston. And I'm a little worried, Rob. I think they're losing a little steam.
- [24:58]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [24:58]
Justin Varrier
And I think if a 3 comeback from a 30 can happen, like this is kind of the circumstance. Old team, injured team going out against a team that's like they're just getting it done.
- [25:09]
Rob Mahoney
Anytime he could get his hand on the ball, he was just jacking.
- [25:18]
J. Kyle Mann
Who among us. Right. Yeah.
- [25:21]
Rob Mahoney
Okay. I do think with LeBron there's, there's such a funny subplot with him right now where he clearly can create physical advantages against a lot of these guys. He's just bigger and stronger than almost anyone who guards him. Unless it's like Sengun who's cross matched and even then he can kind of body him out of the way, but he has to like really rev up to do it and it's just like big demonstrative like body blow post up that he has to do to get
- [25:45]
J. Kyle Mann
the angle dragging in the dirt.
- [25:48]
Rob Mahoney
He really has to huff and puff and get into it in a way that to be honest with you, forces a lot of other defenders to like look at him and overreact sometimes. And some of the assists he gets are just from like the imminent scare of that sort of physicality. But then as soon as Houston like settled into this game and realized that they could cover up almost all of their mistakes with athleticism and really paper over a lot of this stuff. And so long as they didn't over like freak out when LeBron did things, I thought they kind of had it and they really like ground the Laker offense to a halt and made things really difficult for LeBron Austin, basically anyone else who's trying to create and there are not a lot of scorers on this Laker team at present. A lot of the, you know, the Luke Canard style role players have, have turned into pumpkins, have regressed a little bit, which is totally fair. But Houston's also just a hard team to score against and they're playing that way consistently enough without shooting themselves in the foot right now.
- [26:41]
J. Kyle Mann
Houston interesting. No like real true anchoring rim protector on this team. And yet it's there, there's an interesting defensive team like speaking to what you were saying, Rob, because it's the ball pressure. Granted this is an old team like you were saying, LA was really smoking mirrors, like finding ways to get to get things done. And in this game there was just no room pressure like they, they. Unless it was LeBron who has a finite number of those left in the. I'm sure there's a counter in his mind where he's like, okay, only a few more of those left. But it's like Canard had Amin Thompson up his ass the whole game. He just couldn't get. Can you imagine if you're a movement shooter having a men Thompson, I don't even know how many times did he draw the Amend Thompson assignment during the season? Like probably not very often. Then you just had. Speaking of turning Back into pumpkins. Like we got just a vintage Marcus Smart game that not only did he kind of just seem not ready to attack in the areas that he used to be able to, like the things that you were like. Well, we know he can kind of do that. He, you know, dribbling off his leg. He was also. The ball was also finding him in ways that hurt the Lakers where he was, you know, taking shots that just weren't going in. And then it just. Yeah, overall, man, Reeves, they tried to tap into Reeves. I guess you run the risk of kind of throwing off the balance of whatever you had going on in the series, but.
- [28:04]
Rob Mahoney
Well, let me tell you, at this point, you didn't have a lot going on anymore. Like anything that was going on was
- [28:08]
J. Kyle Mann
done and they stole that other game for sure. But yeah, Reese just kind of didn't quite have it around the basket or be on the arc tonight either.
- [28:16]
Justin Varrier
Yeah, I feel like this is when a lot of like when we talked about the Lakers probably last. We're like, Marcus Smart, Luke Canard, how did they get these guys? And it's just like this is the coming back to earth moment where it's like, oh yeah, this is how they got those guys where it's like Luke Canard, like he's hitting like a couple handful of shots probably since we've last talked about him. He's just a non entity. Did not have a field goal in this one. Marcus Smart was bad. I, I think it was a pretty clear sign that Reeves first game back, like showed a little bit to start with and like clearly has the juice that they need right now. And so I understand the impulse to play him more than he probably should have been. But like, man, I can't remember when he was out of the game after he first checked in there because they just needed him so much and just. It just doesn't seem like there's much going for this team outside of frankly, whenever they. They can activate deandre Ayton.
- [29:07]
Rob Mahoney
Yes.
- [29:08]
Justin Varrier
Like, there was like one thing where they were just the late possession where both LeBron and Reeves missed threes, both of which I think were short. And then Nate and gets the put back. Like he. All of a sudden Ayton looks like the. The saving grace for this team, if there is one. And so I don't know, LeBron can turn it on whenever he wants to, it seems like, but I just don't know how many more of those games he has in the reserve, even for like what we got at the end of this game.
- [29:33]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, the Aiden part of that, I mean, he's the exception to the. How did they get these guys Line of dialogue that you were citing? Just like, he was incredible. And frankly, if this game had turned just slightly differently, this would have felt like a season saving performance from deandre Aiden, which for all of his flaws and we have, you know, litigated them at length, is capable of this kind of thing. And the Lakers have brought this out of him and, and he showed up in this, in this game. And honestly, a way that a lot of the Lakers, defensively especially did not. I was, I was a little annoyed just in watching them, how unbothered the Lakers were on defense. And the contrast is tough because on one side you have these like, hyperactive, incredibly athletic defenders for Houston who are flying around, who are covering for each other, who were able to like stitch together something collective that's really, really tough to, to break down. And then the Lakers are like, okay, we're going to crowd the paint, but we're just going to kind of stand here. Like, we're not active, we're not engaged, we're not picking up anybody high. It was like, it was such a default, like, on your heels style of defense from them in a way that they can't win games that way. Like, maybe when Luca was active and torching teams, you could. But the best version of the Lakers has been one that is like improbably good on defense. And this game certainly was not that well.
- [30:48]
J. Kyle Mann
The things mirror each other usually. I mean, if you're not a great downhill team, you typically aren't going to be a great ball pressure team. The two things just kind of go hand in hand. And like Marcus Smart, like, I'm not trying to pick on him, but he's just not the same ball pressure guy he used to be. It's like, this isn't a team that's going to get up in you and make you penetrate that first line. They have to sag and just kind of make it. Make it ugly in that way. And then. And when you're playing a team like Houston, you can kind of imagine why, how you would end up on your heels. I wrote down at the end of the first quarter, I mean, they had a pretty good first quarter. I mean, the first. The Lee, yeah, they got up 11, 12 there for a minute, but then they got to the end. You were watching their offense and it was kind of. Things were kind of hitting. When. When Reese first came in, the ball was kind of humming. And you watched the way that Houston was just like blunt instrument, get into the, get into the lane, Alpi, do the spin move thing. But at the end of the first quarter they were only down eight points and I was like, oh, you know, I felt like Houston played terribly in the first quarter and I was like, if this is what it is. And then they just kind of like clawed and I. It's hard. Yeah.
- [31:49]
Justin Varrier
The Lakers are a terrible defense. Like they've gotten by because they now exit out executed.
- [31:54]
J. Kyle Mann
What's the argument?
- [31:56]
Rob Mahoney
I think they've had enough showings where they've played over their heads defensively. I think they're a bad defensive personnel team, but like they've somehow managed to make it work.
- [32:05]
Justin Varrier
Right. And that's, that's what I was kind of getting to like a lot of it is just effort for them. They just were. The Rockets are left for dead. They saw the, the Shay Gilders Alexander putting the Cancun on three Dylan Brooks jersey and like, where can we get our hands on that? We all need them. It's just like this team had nothing going for it. And so the Lakers were able to just out execute and be the, like the feistier team. If you're not going to bring it, like it really seems like that is going to be the difference.
- [32:33]
Rob Mahoney
Yes, that's kind of what I'm getting at too is they just don't have enough advantages to pretend as if they can't or shouldn't dig in on literally every possession. Like, this is a dog fighting team. They have LeBron James, now they have Austin Reeves back. And I do think Reaves, despite his poor shooting, the foul drawing and the playmaking were really important for them. It just wasn't enough because of all these other guys who are regressing in the series at the same time, and because there were stretches of this game where LeBron did have to pace himself in order to even reach the output that he did. They just have a long way to go. And I think this is turning out to be a fascinating series. With history on the line. It's impossible to trust the Rockets given the way that they implode sometimes. But they do have more talent, they do have more athleticism, and it manifests as it did here in a way that feels like they are running circles around the Lakers when everything is going their way. So it's a, it's, it's, it's hard for a game like this to inspire a ton of confidence because Houston is still messy, but their advantages are more pronounced than ever.
- [33:33]
J. Kyle Mann
Can I, can I criticize. Another Laker. Really quickly, please.
- [33:36]
Justin Varrier
Obviously, yeah.
- [33:37]
J. Kyle Mann
Rui Hachimura, for the love of God, will you play with some force? Oh, my God. Like LeBron dropped him a just bread basket dime and he had Reed shepherd on.
- [33:48]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, well, Reed shut him down.
- [33:51]
Justin Varrier
I thought this, I thought you were
- [33:52]
Rob Mahoney
going to spin this into Reed propaganda.
- [33:54]
J. Kyle Mann
He had a closeout where he sidestepped it and then took a 19 footer and I was just like, drive the ball, Rui. Holy smokes, man.
- [34:01]
Justin Varrier
Yeah.
- [34:01]
J. Kyle Mann
And then the other thing to flip to a positive. Huge day. Huge redemptive day for six one white guys. Huge day. I just wanted to just throw that. Everybody got. People got their jokes in.
- [34:12]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [34:12]
J. Kyle Mann
Six one. Six one white guys are back. We're back, baby. Big night.
- [34:16]
Justin Varrier
I mean, anybody else, like, yeah, post Malone, like, do something or read.
- [34:21]
J. Kyle Mann
Read is a totem. He's, he's, he's an avatar emblematic. I think. I think he carried the load. I don't know if you guys have any. You can, you can pitch in, but no, Reed. Reed had a couple huge plays, I thought. I mean, they were still attacking him relentlessly. But the Steel and the. Those were back breakers.
- [34:38]
Rob Mahoney
Actually, you know what? Peyton Pritchard listed 6:1. Maybe it is the time for 6:1 white guys.
- [34:42]
J. Kyle Mann
There we go. We're back.
- [34:43]
Justin Varrier
How tall are you, Rob?
- [34:45]
Rob Mahoney
6 4. So it's not my time. You know, we're struggling, but you guys are still getting.
- [34:50]
J. Kyle Mann
Yeah, you guys are still getting multi year deals in the league. We're.
- [34:54]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah. Give me that Randy Foy money. You know, I think, I think I've earned it as. I don't want to like make this a joke though, because Reed shepherd was legitimately like the go to option when Houston needed to settle down and came up with that incredible steel doubling LeBron at an opportune moment. I mean, those are, those are big time plays. And the Rui stuff wasn't just that over the top lob that he refused to go up with. I thought Reed was actually like bodying him pretty well when they were kind of cross matched throughout the game and containing some of that bigger physicality. Granted, it's Rui Hachimura. Like, this is kind of the way this stuff goes sometimes, but when you read shepherd and you're in the crosshairs all the time, you gotta find ways to stay on the floor. And I thought four steals and like competitive enough defense, in addition to what he brings you offensively was certainly enough to do it.
- [35:40]
Justin Varrier
Have we gotten so deep into this that the pressure has now flipped back onto the Lakers where it's like if you're the Rockets and things just look so bad. Have you dug yourself out of that enough to where it's just like, oh, well, we. It's not going to be a catastrophe anymore. Now that's the thing that's booing you and all of a sudden like you're back at home where like the Lakers don't have the crowd to their advantage and we talked about how much they need to be the high effort team and then what kd we'll see like if he comes back for game seven, like, I don't know. Things are starting to align. I feel this way a little bit about, about the Nuggets series too, where it's just like there's so many advantages like the Nuggets should fucking win the series when Ant and. And Dante DiVincenzo aren't there. Right. Even though they are down and whatever. I just, I don't know. I kind of feel like the Rockets are the team that should be playing loose and like this game is kind
- [36:28]
Rob Mahoney
of an evidence to that they're getting there. And certainly if the Rockets win game six and you're going back and you have to like, home court is an advantage, but now you have to defend home court after everything you've been through with Kevin Durant being a maybe questionable kind of for the game, I, I could see the Lakers having to deal with a very interesting kind of pressure. And we know LeBron can handle that. We know there are veterans like a Marcus Smart can handle that. What happens to deandre Aiden in a game like that? One of the few scorers you do have. And what happens to all these other guys, you know, your Jared Vanderbilts and your Jake Laravias who you, you could see kind of like freezing in the wrong moment if they're put in the spotlight in that particular way. So, I mean, the Lakers have many, many reasons they need to get done with the series quickly. But you, you can see things starting to pressurize around them.
- [37:15]
J. Kyle Mann
Yeah. In the broader sense, you're just kind of. We've talked about it all year where it's like we didn't really expect for this build of team to be really in play in the playo. It just didn't make the timelines. You got thrown into this really odd, unexpected timeline with the Luca thing and this team. Is there any pressure on them to sort of build and go forward in its current state? Like, not really. But in the, in the immediate sense, it's like, how many more of these does LeBron have? Number one. And when I'm just watching this, I'm like, just viewing this series in a vacuum. Yeah, I think there's some pressure on the Lakers. It seems like it, like, like it's. It's definitely the looseness of the Rockets really came into play in a way. And if you're talking about an Aiden, if you're talking about a Hachimura, just the types of guys that they have who are playing who were kind of had that front runner energy going for them when things were going well, riding, you know, riding the back of. Of LeBron. The, the whole kind of narrative that we were talking about was like, LeBron, you know, salvaging those guys, finding value in them, rehabilitating them as basketball players. It's like when the pressure's on, is that the thing that's going to. That's going to kind of like revert them in the ways that made them maddening in the past?
- [38:26]
Justin Varrier
If someone were to say it to me, a team came back from down 3 0. I would guess that the recipe is the team that got ultimately sent home would be older, would be playing a short bench. And as we've seen in this one, they scraped together 20ish minutes between Jackson Hayes, Jake Laravia, Jared Vanderbilt. Like, we're very close to getting back into the brawny minutes again. Like, there really is no margin for error there. I would say a team that doesn't play particularly well defensively, like, and on the other side, the team is hyper athletic, has like the world by the balls when they want it, and it's just about being more engaged and getting up for it. Like those, all those things combined, man. Like, this is kind of the groundwork for something like this to happen. I would bet on the Rockets going forward. The only thing that sticks in your, in your crawl a little bit is LeBron. It's like that is the one thing you always have to factor in. LeBron, LeBron, LeBron. But, like, I don't know, he didn't have a massive effect on this game.
- [39:24]
Rob Mahoney
It's LeBron, but it's also the collective psychology of the Houston Rockets. I just, I just. You say it's like, oh, it's all a factor of them being engaged. Becoming engaged and focused and precise is the hardest jump to make in basketball. And we've seen just the variation in the Rockets from game to game be so wild. I just, like, refused to believe in them at this point. I spent a lot of the Season, talking myself into them as an exercise. And then they lost critical members of their team point after point after point and they just went off the rails and they never developed offensively. And here they are like gutting out a win like this, which is very impressive. But I do believe in my heart of hearts that like execution wins. And I think the Lakers have it in them to be a more precisely executing team in a way that the Rockets don't even. Even with all of this happening, even with the minutes crunch in which in addition to everything you laid out, Justin Luke Canard, who they know isn't playing well, still had to play 30 something minutes with one point.
- [40:21]
J. Kyle Mann
Did he really play badly? It's just, I thought he just had the misfortune of having a men on him. I mean the true, the criticisms we had, we've had Amin forces you to put a man. Just removed him from the equation. I mean it wasn't like he like had the ball and just couldn't. It's just like he, he was befallen. He fell in the plight that many have with, with the Min Thompson on him. I guess the other thing too is like Reeves. Do we think Reeves is going to be able to catch a rhythm? How quickly can he catch a rhythm? Can, can he, can he improve on the efficiency? It's like physically he looked okay. It's just the ball. I mean some of the finishing I guess is probably where you can nitpick. He looked a little hurried at times. Other than that, I mean he was moving okay.
- [40:59]
Justin Varrier
He got to Grifton real quickly, which he does better than most.
- [41:03]
Rob Mahoney
And that's. And that I think makes the efficiency better than it might seem based on field goal percentage alone. But, but before we get off this stuff, can we, can we dwell for a moment on one player who I thought was really great in this game and I think has been really solid throughout these playoffs in a background sort of capacity. Jabari Smith Jr. Is among the most prolific three point making players in this postseason. I don't know that it ever really felt that way until this game where he just had a dramatic impact as a shooter, as an all around scorer, as a backup.
- [41:32]
Justin Varrier
5.
- [41:32]
Rob Mahoney
Like this was a really great Jabari moment and if anything he's been kind of one of the more level headed, if also limited members of the Rockets.
- [41:40]
J. Kyle Mann
Yeah, he's just kind of simple, catch and shoot stuff. Bailed them out a few times, they had a few possessions where it was just like nothing's happening. I'm 6 foot 10, I'm just going to shoot over the top blocks. He had. He had a couple really active defensive sequences. Yeah, I agree. He played well.
- [41:55]
Justin Varrier
Another classic. What's cut to him in the regular season? Because even last postseason, like we were talking all about, like, oh, the versatility to guard all these different positions. But I often find myself watching Jabari and being like if he was just on another team that like really needed his stretch for him, like if he was on the old school Orlando Magic with Dwight Howard and he was just in the corner and like being able to take advantage of that, like, I, I almost feel like this team is too unconventional to really make use of him in the way that he probably should. But when they trade for Giannis this summer because they're desperate and they need something to happen, like maybe we'll start to appreciate him a little bit more.
- [42:28]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, we're going to the. The Ryan Rollins Jabari Smith era is really going to pop off.
- [42:33]
Justin Varrier
I hope so.
- [42:35]
J. Kyle Mann
Can see that.
- [42:37]
Justin Varrier
Can I actually throw one wild idea out there now that we're on this?
- [42:41]
Rob Mahoney
Come on.
- [42:41]
Justin Varrier
Because I was all, I was all prepped for the, for the Houston off season. I don't know if we're going to get back in time in order to do this again. Obviously, I've been thinking a lot about what the Portland Trailblazers should do. Of course.
- [42:54]
J. Kyle Mann
Of course.
- [42:56]
Justin Varrier
Well, if you think. If you're thinking Giannis trades and you're thinking the Rockets might be the most desperate team out there in order to want to fix this.
- [43:02]
Rob Mahoney
Right. Sure. What do you think of like Chris Murray for Kevin Durant or what?
- [43:05]
Justin Varrier
No, straight up, the Blazers need more. Also, they don't want to pay for that contract because they can't afford
- [43:14]
J. Kyle Mann
or coach.
- [43:15]
Justin Varrier
If we're for sure. If we're saying that, like the Blazers are probably going to get involved in this somehow because I do think the Bucks probably want their own picks back first and foremost. If you're the Blazers, what do you think about Sengun being rerouted to Portland as some sort of like, playmaking 5 Hub? On the one hand, I think he fits probably what they're hoping to get in like a yang and like what they need in order to activate all of their wing players who aren't very offensively gifted? On the other hand, is it just the worst version of what they have now where it's Sengun surrounded by a defense first team?
- [43:53]
Rob Mahoney
I mean, how quickly you abandoned Donovan Klingon?
- [43:56]
Justin Varrier
Well, he's still there. He's just Rudy who shoots threes. I think Is something I recall Specialist in the playoffs. I didn't say he was going to struggle.
- [44:03]
J. Kyle Mann
Remember the draft last year? Justin came back from the press conference and he was like, I kind of.
- [44:07]
Rob Mahoney
I'm young.
- [44:08]
J. Kyle Mann
I kind of. I'm in, I'm sniffing.
- [44:11]
Rob Mahoney
We really need a super cut of every blazer that Justin has talked himself into. It'd be. I mean it would, it would go nuts. You.
- [44:17]
J. Kyle Mann
Cronin was cooking in the, in the explanation.
- [44:20]
Justin Varrier
That's all I wanna. The record would reflect like very well on me. I think I've been very level headed about most of my blazer stage.
- [44:27]
Rob Mahoney
Sure. I do think for your hypothetical. I don't love the Denny Sengun combination for the same reason that people were wondering about the Yanis Shangun combination. Right. It's like anyone who's that downhill with Sengun, I don't think pairs super well. But I see what you're saying as far as getting the. The appeal of a young type prospect but someone who's so much more developed and frankly more skilled and more agile than Yang is that part makes sense. I just don't think the fit comprehensively makes sense.
- [44:54]
J. Kyle Mann
I. Yeah. I think that you. By doing that I feel like you're. You're sort of. I don't, I don't think you draft cling in on the premise of. Of like the connectivity on offense. It's like I think he's a great rim protector who also happens to give that. I think Drafting young is 100%. Like we need a fulcrum guy because that dude can't. He's between the foul lines basically the whole game because he's just trying to like keep up with the, with the speed of the game. So. Trading for Shingum would be an odd admission. I feel like in terms of RO and then on the Shingoon side of it. Yeah. I just feel like that would be just him closing his eyes and waking up and looking at a very similar basketball situation. I just, I don't know that that would be much better for him. Granted, that's not why we would do it, but we'd be doing it for the Blazers, I guess. But I don't really. I don't love it.
- [45:39]
Justin Varrier
Young could still do that just in Milwaukee. You know, we'll just be drinking lagers and going to cops for ice cream. Like he'll live a great life.
- [45:48]
J. Kyle Mann
Yeah. But.
- [45:50]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [45:51]
Justin Varrier
Oh, that's right. I'm sorry, apologies. Did you say cute Costard?
- [45:55]
Rob Mahoney
No. Custard?
- [45:57]
J. Kyle Mann
No. I thought Justin said costard. I know it is. Come on.
- [46:00]
Justin Varrier
Well, on that note, why don't we take another break. We'll come back, talk about the Cavs game and maybe a little lottery reform. The Ringer NBA show is brought to you by FanDuel. NBA fans, this is your reminder to check in daily because every day during the playoffs FanDuel is serving up a happy hour. We're talking special drops you won't want to miss, from profit match boosts to bonus bets and more. And FanDuel is giving you better payouts on same game parlays all NBA playoffs long. So we're looking ahead to some action on Thursday in the NBA playoffs. So I'm looking at this Nuggets Timberwolves Games the Timberwolves are getting plus five and a half points at home in a pretty critical Game six. I'll be honest, I kind of like the Nuggets in this series. But but getting five and a half points in this game at home? It's going to be pretty feisty. I think that arena is going to be for Minnesota. I still think the Nuggets have some issues defensively with IO Dsumu in particular. So I'll take the points in this one plus five and a half. But don't hold me to it. All right? Check for a new reward every single day of the NBA playoffs and don't miss your shot to get a little extra out of the action. Head to FanDuel.com Ringer MBA to get started. 21 select states or 18 DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Opt in Required rewards are non withdrawable. Restrictions apply including bonus and token expiration, leg requirements and max wager amount. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER, call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut.
- [47:35]
J. Kyle Mann
This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime. Ever find yourself scrambling to grab that special something for a last minute party, a spontaneous date or even an impromptu game night at home? That's when Prime's same day delivery swoops in. That essential item you thought you'd missed delivered the plan saved the win secured because with prime same day delivery you can grab it and go before the moment passes you by. Same day delivery? It's on Prime. Visit Amazon.comprime to find millions of items delivered fast available in select areas. Terms apply.
- [48:06]
Justin Varrier
So the Cavs came out on top of this one. Good for them. Can't say I feel great about it. Took another second half push. Brennan Ingram going down felt like it really affected the Raptors. Just seemed like, they were looking for offense, and I know Ingram wasn't playing particularly well, but, like, they could have used another shot maker, especially because Scotty Barnes seemed like he was hobbling as well or just someone with any length because they had to go to small lineups with, like, Shed and walk out there.
- [48:35]
Rob Mahoney
Walter.
- [48:37]
Justin Varrier
It's just like another time where the Cavs just. Just have enough, right? No one feels great about it. They might get out of this series, but, like, this is kind of the circumstance we find them in right now.
- [48:49]
Rob Mahoney
I mean, at least they did that. Wasn't there a scenario in which they just got upstaged by the Raptors energy and by the defense that have been giving them trouble? Like, at least they look like the Cavs again in some respect. And I say that mostly because Evan Mobley returned from the wilderness and he can apparently actually finish again. He can be a big. Who plays like, a big.
- [49:08]
Justin Varrier
Well in the second half.
- [49:09]
Rob Mahoney
Well, I mean, even in the first half, though, like, the dunk that he missed, I want to say he was attacking Colin Murray Boyles, but it was like a missed dunk to that point in the series was the most aggressive mood move he had made in a week. So it's like, okay, at least there's a sign of life here.
- [49:25]
Justin Varrier
That's the bar for. They were just miss dunk.
- [49:28]
J. Kyle Mann
Seriously want to see that aggression, you know, I mean, yeah, they tried to get him. They tried to get him going early. I think one of the very first plays of the game they ran for Evan, and then. Yeah, he just keeps banging. What did you make? 3. Pretty backbreaker threes in the second half. Yeah, overall, it's. It's weird because it's like, you watch that game and the Raptors are an odd contradiction where they have a good vibe as a team. Like, they're like, you. You can see that they mean so well and they want. And it's just like the basketball side of it just can't come along. It's like the. The. The Cavs were just begging them to sort of like, do more in that. In that game. It was like you get a huge Jacoby, you know, first half, you know, sick in the first half. Six for nine from the field and five or eight from three, and then he just kind of falls off of a cliff. It was just like they just couldn't quite put together enough offense. And then. But then you figure out it's just too much to come back from if Ingram's going to be out and then Scotty's dinged up and then we're getting a whole lot of RJ Barrett. It's just not going to. We didn't get where we wanted to go despite the good vibes.
- [50:33]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah. That's why I think the Scotty being dinged up was a much bigger impact than whatever they would or wouldn't have gotten from Brandon Ingram. Because their best source of offense going for a couple games now has been Scotty Barnes. Runs really fast in transition and basically sets up the offense for himself for other people. And one of my favorite things about his game is the way he looks for other bigs and he was spoon feeding Jakob Poe with no looks, looking for Colin Murray Boyles like finding a lot of good easy offense just by being aggressive and athletic and pushing and pushing and pushing. All that stuff gets a little bit harder if you're nursing even like a minor injury that you can play through, but one that limits your explosiveness and your mobility and certainly your ability to finish their contact as well.
- [51:13]
Justin Varrier
Let me ask you this question, something I've been percolating on as I've been watching some of these Raptors games. Do you think any differently about Scotty Barnes based on his playoff performance?
- [51:22]
Rob Mahoney
Definitely.
- [51:23]
Justin Varrier
Okay, in what ways? Like, do you think he's a different type of offensive player than you previously thought or could be? Like, are we reverting back to rookie year? Scotty Barnes could be hub of a good offense sort of player.
- [51:35]
Rob Mahoney
I mean we're not reverting back to like is this guy a proto Kawhi mid range assassin? Like that know how that was the thing that was out there. But I think yeah, his playmaking has inspired a lot of confidence and his ability to like, like convert really difficult situations where you'll see him in like a kind of half court, semi transition setting with multiple defenders in front of him and because of his size he'll like go up and dunk on people and it's like, okay, that is a different level of play in this sort of competitive setting than you're going to get from these like wings who shrink physically when they're like met with equal opposition or they come up against a big, they come up against a wing and it's just like they're, they feel outclassed in whatever way. I've never felt for a moment like Scotty Barnes was outclassed in this series. And this is against a superior opponent by team one that has like two like incredibly productive backcourt players if nothing else, and two front court players who have been all stars and Scotty Barnes has often felt like the best player on the floor. So, like, from that respect, I do feel pretty differently about, but certainly the larger season he's had in which he was one of the best defensive players in the world. But offensively, what he's been doing in this series in particular, I think we've
- [52:46]
J. Kyle Mann
seen sort of a culmination of the flashes that we saw at the beginning that you. You alluded to where we were seeing him come out, and we're like, oh, man, this is a guy who can, you know, get into the paint and he can dish it and he's so physical. And it's like what we've. The process that we've gone on between then and now is you just see poise that is feeding discernment where he always had the. The ability to discern it, but he needed to kind of get that to that spot where he had. He's less of a bull in a china shop. He can utilize his physicality really well and then make better decisions. Like what Rob's saying, like, you know, knowing when to unleash the Hulk and knowing when to be Bruce Banner in the paint and. And think through a situation really quickly, and that's been really refreshing to see. So, yeah, man, if you stack that on top of, like, the defensive versatility, I feel a lot better than, you know, you. You naturally worry about young players. Are they going to get there? But this is this. I feel like we've broken through. I don't know that the playoffs are, like, changing my mind or anything. It's just been like a nice extra validation on kind of the progress that I saw him make this year.
- [53:48]
Justin Varrier
2021 redraft again, anyone?
- [53:52]
Rob Mahoney
I mean, we will do it. I promise you, we will do it.
- [53:55]
Justin Varrier
Got Cade going off, too. Let's go. I saw this tweet from longtime listener Betsy Cash Money, beloved listener. Is there more pressure on the Cavs to win this series than the Pistons to win theirs? Considering the circumstances that both teams find themselves in, the Cavs more veteran laden have a lot of money tied up in those players. Obviously, the now matters more than the Pistons, who, as we mentioned, 18 is a pretty like, it's a. It's a mark on your record. It's a pretty like, not a lot of teams have had that happen to them, but younger and if anything, they didn't make the move at the deadline that they still have the ammunition to go do regardless.
- [54:35]
Rob Mahoney
I think the Pistons just have so many ways they can change their team where you don't feel boxed in. And this is where that pressure comes from for the Cavs. Right. It's not just you traded away Darius Garland to get James Harden, an older, more veteran player, and therefore you need to be winning. Now it's like this doesn't work. Things are going to have to get pretty dramatic if you want to start making structural changes to what the Cavs look like. And I think the situation would require it if they do go on to lose this series. So I do think Cleveland is facing more pressure and I think for, for all the shame talk as we were going through, like what happens when you're a 1 seed that loses to an 8? Like when the Mavs lost to the We Believe Warriors, Dirk Nowitzki had to go on like an Australian walkabout, like a soul searching journey to clear his head and his soul. Kate Cunningham is not going to have to do that. He's still young enough the team.
- [55:23]
Justin Varrier
He already probably did it well after they lost all of the games.
- [55:26]
Rob Mahoney
Maybe so. And so I just think that they have too much ahead of them and too many things that they could do as a team to change their fate versus the Cavs. Like, this is kind of who they are and they bet a lot and they banked a lot on this version of the team.
- [55:40]
J. Kyle Mann
Yeah, I feel like the Cavs are sort of like, I don't know if like a 60 year old man got laid off as opposed to like, you know, a 25 year old man or something. You know, it's just like I feel like the, the Pistons will definitely live to fight another day where it's at the Cavs, if they lose their, their gig, they're like, like, who's gonna hire me? I don't know. It's like, that's a pretty cruel analogy, I guess, but I was. I guess that's the plot of. Well, I was gonna say that's the plot of a Ladybird, but he didn't get hot. Tracy Letts didn't get. It was a hiring situation anyway.
- [56:07]
Rob Mahoney
Upstaged by his own son. I mean, that's, That's a tough fate.
- [56:11]
J. Kyle Mann
Sorry.
- [56:12]
Justin Varrier
Set the record straight.
- [56:13]
J. Kyle Mann
Sorry for the downer, but no, I mean, I just think that the Cavs are going to have more serious structural kind of, you know, conversations to have after already making a pretty big pivot. I mean, you go, you go and get James Harden. I just, I was thinking about it. James does enough to where you're just. You feel okay. And I was just like. But he's. I just As I was watching that game, I was like, I just feel like he's about to shit the bed again. And I was like, I don't know if the bed is, like, a good enough metaphor, because if you. The bed. You know, I've never. I've never shat the bed. I don't. I don't know anybody that has. But if you shat the bed, you could just kind of like. Like, wad it up into sheets and throw it away. It's like, no, when you. The bed in a situation like this or you mess up in a situation like this, it's like you the. You shit the pool or you shit the hot tub. You know, I just don't know.
- [57:00]
Justin Varrier
This is oddly specific for someone who's never shit the bed.
- [57:02]
J. Kyle Mann
I don't know. I've never done any of these things. I'm just saying you're affecting everybody with your situation.
- [57:10]
Justin Varrier
Are you obsessed with.
- [57:10]
J. Kyle Mann
Coincidentally, those are two different things. I don't know, because I said that. I just had this dialogue with myself where I was like, shitting the bed just doesn't do it. I was like, he shit the hot tub. That's what he did.
- [57:20]
Justin Varrier
You know, in Super Bad, where Jonah Hill's just drawn all the dicks because as a young. And he's like, you with the poop emoji.
- [57:29]
J. Kyle Mann
Those are two separate things. I'm not poop obsessed.
- [57:32]
Rob Mahoney
All right, if you insist. I mean, I will say this about James Harden.
- [57:37]
Justin Varrier
His.
- [57:39]
Rob Mahoney
I'm trying to bring us back on track. I'm trying to keep the talk show an absolute minimum.
- [57:44]
J. Kyle Mann
I'm even more out of control. It's one in the. It's two in the morning for me. So there we go.
- [57:48]
Rob Mahoney
Know, we'll forgive you for a little bit of you, metaphorically, the bed. But in this case, his turn. Like, his turnovers, his dumbest mistakes, and there have been a lot of them in the series, including in this game, are about as dumb as any that you're gonna find anywhere in the playoffs right now. Like, he. He really puts the worst Rockets moments, like, gives them a run for their money in terms of just, like, basic passes going nowhere in particular, and a defender just scooping it up as if, like. Like, are you even joking with this kind of shit? I don't understand it. Like, of all the things he should be doing, of all the ways he could be imploding, we've seen many of them. We've seen James Harden, like, refuse shots in critical games. We've seen him overshoot in critical games. He's seen him just miss a bunch of shots in critical games. What is this? Like the shot making bailed it out. And I think he had a positive effect on this game overall. But the mistakes are just like maddening over these last two or three games.
- [58:44]
Justin Varrier
Yeah. Just to circle back to the, to the bigger question here, I agree with what you guys were saying. I do worry with the Pistons if the shame of this will spur them to force themselves to do something this off season. And I don't think you ever want to be in the position where you have to do something, especially as we mentioned before, like there are so many outs for this team. They have a world of possibility and it feels like they have to at a certain point decide on who, who's going to like, round out to this team. But deciding like in advance that it has to be this off season doesn't feel like a good position to be in. And so like, if you find yourself like dealing your entire future in terms of picks for Michael Porter Jr. Like, is that, that, is that the best move? If that's something that you could have done even at the deadline, I don't know, that seems it'd be fine. Obviously he would help anyone, literally anybody
- [59:31]
Rob Mahoney
could hit a shot at Michael Porter, Trey Murphy, any of those guys that we've again talked around month after month after month. I do think one area that's they're kind of harmed with all this is in theory, Ron Holland could have been a prospect who might have interested in some teams in a talk like that. And now everyone's going to be looking at him and saying, well, you mean that guy who literally couldn't get off the bench for you in a, in a leverage there. So, yeah, his relative value I think is plummeting right now for trade purposes. But they need a lot whether they win the series or not. Like, they do need shooting, they do need secondary ball handling. They need all the things that we've been talking about and around for a long time. And I hope that this whole experience, even if they go on to win, is a wake up call in those respects.
- [60:12]
Justin Varrier
Yeah. All right.
- [60:15]
J. Kyle Mann
Well, I was gonna say I. Should I shout out my Spackler of the Night? I wanted to. I. I wanted to.
- [60:20]
Justin Varrier
Oh, sure. Do we have a sponsor yet? Ace Hardware?
- [60:22]
J. Kyle Mann
I don't know. We can get one though. The spackling thing, I liked it the other night. Just quickly here. Spackler of the night, Dennis Schroeder, man, he deserves a little shout out here. 7 for 11 for the field 3 for 6. Can you explain.
- [60:34]
Justin Varrier
Of the night for those uninformed.
- [60:36]
Rob Mahoney
The unspackled offensive.
- [60:38]
J. Kyle Mann
Spackling. So we need to. We need. You know, things aren't going well. Oh, I. I did a little. I did a Google. That's going to pay off here.
- [60:45]
Rob Mahoney
Okay.
- [60:45]
J. Kyle Mann
There's. There's some holes we got to patch up. You know, the Cavs had some holes. They weren't putting it together. And Justin, you mentioned something really interesting to me. That there is the joint compound. Is that what you said? And then there's hot mud. I Google hot mud. Don't know much about it, interestingly enough. You know what hot mud does when you put it up there? It hardens. So there we go.
- [61:05]
Justin Varrier
I'll just go ahead and. That's right.
- [61:10]
Rob Mahoney
I don't want to. I don't want to be here anymore.
- [61:11]
Justin Varrier
It sets fast.
- [61:13]
Rob Mahoney
Just want to leave.
- [61:14]
Justin Varrier
You have to decide, like, what type of. Of patch you're going to use, because sometimes they have it where they have the wood on it and then the thing around it and you can put it there. You could just like. Like drill into the wall. Like just the boards into there. If it's small enough. You could just put tape on there. And then you could. You could spackle over that.
- [61:31]
J. Kyle Mann
Is this you trying to get us the sponsor for real? Is that what that was for?
- [61:34]
Justin Varrier
The. Anyone who wants to pay for my spackle? I would do anything for them. Okay? Put me in a beefcake calendar with nothing but hot mud. I'm here for it.
- [61:43]
J. Kyle Mann
Oh, oh, oh, me, oh me, oh my. Okay, anyway. Spackler of the night.
- [61:50]
Justin Varrier
Spackler of the night. Presented by no one right now.
- [61:52]
Rob Mahoney
What if that's our first official group chat? Merch is the Justin beefcake calendar with him spackling various walls.
- [61:59]
Justin Varrier
Well, speaking of merch, we do need to get you a T shirt, man.
- [62:01]
Rob Mahoney
We do. I'm waiting big time.
- [62:03]
J. Kyle Mann
Spacklers.
- [62:04]
Rob Mahoney
I've been going to my mailbox every day and walking back dejectedly.
- [62:07]
Justin Varrier
Okay, we'll get on that. We'll force one of the producers to get on.
- [62:11]
J. Kyle Mann
That's.
- [62:12]
Rob Mahoney
That's your job, buddy.
- [62:14]
J. Kyle Mann
Our army of them. Yeah. All right.
- [62:17]
Justin Varrier
Moderate reform. The NBA's got some ideas, and believe it or not, still bad. They're calling this one the three two one, which is, I guess, is a catchy name. And so that always helps get things through Congress. The general gist of this is the three worst teams in the league no longer will have the best odds. If anything, they have worse odds than the teams that come after that. So the way it basically works out is the bottom three teams just get two lottery balls. The teams four through ten get three, nine and ten in the play in seeds all get two and the seven, eight losers each get one. And so really the advantage lies in being four through ten as the being one through three. There's also stuff about like you can't have three top five picks in a row. I actually think that's would be the biggest thing to deter things. I don't think it's that big of a deal of a team wants to reset and get one pick up there, maybe even two. But like when you see teams stacking this left and right, like the process. And that's when I think it gets particularly ugly in terms of like the actual flattening of the odds even more. I think this kind of sucks in part because like, why would you just disincentivize the top three? Because now teams will be trying to tank into four through 10. You're just moving that.
- [63:34]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [63:34]
Justin Varrier
And then on top of that you're still focused on disincentivizing tanking as opposed to incentivizing winning. Like why wouldn't you try to be giving money, for instance, to owners who typically tend to be cheap in order to hit certain benchmarks, winning a certain amount of games, making the playoffs, like you just get a bonus, you get something for your team or in particular your owner. Who I think is. Is going to matter here because these are the guys passing this through the
- [64:00]
Rob Mahoney
board of governors or the inverse. Justin, which is like you don't get to participate in revenue sharing if you're in the bottom X teams. Like I think there are a lot of financial punishments that could really light a fire to franchises.
- [64:11]
J. Kyle Mann
I don't think they. I think House brought this up on Bill's part and I think that this is the key, the intrinsic thing that unless they change it, which I don't know how you change it unless you just get rid of the idea of the draft entirely, which I hate.
- [64:23]
Rob Mahoney
Interesting.
- [64:23]
J. Kyle Mann
Which is just if you. The idea of just incentive for losing is still there. And I, I don't. And you're. It's just like, I don't. You've not removed it. It's the same thing as like trying to game like what your playoff seed is going to be. We still have conversations. We don't fret about those things. Whenever, you know, we maybe will make fun of a team if they're trying to duck somebody. But you can still, you can still sort of game your record to land or to try to aim. You know, it's almost like a parachute trying to hit a target. You're. It's. You know, there are a lot of variables and it's tricky, but that's not gone. So I don't know that we really moved the goalposts enough for it to be. Have a significant impact. I do like not giving teams, you know, things in a. Like. Like several picks in a row, like we were de. Incentivizing being bad for a long time, but in the short term, like, year to year, I don't know that we've made much of a difference.
- [65:14]
Rob Mahoney
I do think it will probably do the thing that it's actually designed to do, which is remove some of the most public and most embarrassing to the league forms of tanking.
- [65:23]
J. Kyle Mann
Right.
- [65:23]
Rob Mahoney
Like the big things that sparked all the discourse this year with all the lineup shenanigans and whatnot. Because it's not, as you said, Kyle, it's like a little bit more of a moving target. And it's. It's not just bottom out as hard and as fast as you possibly can. All of that said in this new model, like, all you're really doing is like, slightly moving the arbitrary margin where you now need to be above this line to get the best possible odds. And was there really that much more dignity in being the Kings, the Jazz, the Grizzlies, than there wasn't being the Pacers or the Wizards? Like, were they really dramatically more noble circumstances that are deserving of these better lottery odds?
- [66:01]
Justin Varrier
Right. If anything, the bottom three just ended up being the more hardcore and often like, the more shrewd front offices because they just like, cast aside optics and just decided this matters more than anything. We're going to make sure that this happens. Whereas we saw toward the end of the season, the Kings were around winning games when they shouldn't have been doing that.
- [66:19]
J. Kyle Mann
Yeah.
- [66:20]
Justin Varrier
And so, like, they kind of screwed up what they could have had in. In the top three odds there. I just, I don't understand why that. That, that little step up exists here. Because teams are just going to adapt. And it's like, it's one thing if, like, a team figures something out after this gets put into place that you couldn't see. Like, humans are going to adapt to rules and they're going to figure things out. That's going to happen regardless. But if we could forecast that in advance, like, then you have a problem. And so I would like there to just be flattened odds, like Just flatten it all if that's to 10 through the entire lottery, whatever. And then you incentivize getting into the play in. And so there's a balance there because you might still see some tanking from the playing into like the. The 11th seed and beyond. Because if you're the warriors, for instance, like, you'll say, like, do we really need to make this show of it and have like one play in loss, or do we want an actual chance at a top five pick with Steph Curry? Because this is going to matter more to us. But on top of that, if you just add an incentive to like be in the play in, that's like the best you can do. This just seems overly complicated to me in a way that like, doesn't actually solve anything.
- [67:26]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, I mean, when you think about these new revamped odds, like say they were put in place this season, what team's behavior would they have actually changed? I think the Pacers are a good candidate. Right? Like, the Pacers are a team that probably could have been significantly better than they ended up being based on how they navigated the season, when they would have made the moves to potentially upgrade their roster. Like trading for Ivica Zubots, all of that stuff. Like, they could have been maybe something closer to the eighth worst record than the. Than the absolute worst record. But were you going to like dramatically change the course of the Brooklyn Nets if they knew that they were going to have slightly worse odds? Like, they're just a bad team, The Wizards are just a bad team. And so I don't know what you're expecting of these teams to dig their way out, other than you're going to punish these teams for being bad in ways that they maybe haven't been punished before. And good on you for that. But at the same time, if you're the fourth worst team, congratulations. You now have these like, step up odds. It doesn't really track for me. I'm not like strongly opposed to it. I just don't really see what we're fixing.
- [68:24]
J. Kyle Mann
Who's the most hopelessly bad? Like, they didn't have a choice. Was it the Nets this year? I'd say. I mean, it had to be.
- [68:29]
Justin Varrier
I feel like they didn't have the op, just didn't have control over how bad they were and they ended up in fourth. Like we were saying that that is actually the worst position than the. Than the other ones.
- [68:40]
Rob Mahoney
Well, a lot of those domas related too, right? It's like they had bad luck on top of a bad roster. I mean, they wouldn't have been as bad if he were healthier. I don't know.
- [68:49]
Justin Varrier
They were pretty bad with those guys in there.
- [68:50]
Rob Mahoney
I mean, I'm not saying it was good, that's for sure.
- [68:54]
Justin Varrier
I hope that they keep the no. 3 consecutive top five picks thing though. That is key, I think, because you saw people quickly start to go through history and point out all the teams that amassed that. Like if the spurs were just Wemby and Castle and now Wemby, Castle, Harper, like, that's a very good team and that's a foundation for successful playoff basket. Wemby alone is right, but Harper puts them so far up top where it's just like they had two bites at like a transformative like running mate with Wemby and this team might dominate for the foreseeable future. Two feels like like good, like any small market needs that to feed the next team because of all the disadvantages they have in free agency. We get that and this is priced into that. But you can't just keep doing it over and over again. This one. Things get really ugly and I think that's when things turn from a competitive like. Like giving a team a competitive advantage versus something that sours into not competitive basketball.
- [69:48]
Rob Mahoney
I hear you. But also if that is the case and teams aren't allowed to do that anymore, the spurs are going to have an incredible last through the door advantage as far as all that stuff goes. And this is the problem with any sort of rule change, right? It's how do we change this when the Thunder are already in process? Like if you wanted to overhaul pick protections, for example, how would you even do it when pick protections are owed seven years out? Like, there's all of these lingering problems that come with trying to fix any of the core issues in the NBA. I think if you're trying to change basically anything about the way the league is structured right now, it's going to really favor San Antonio because they've got the core in hand in addition to the Thunder, of course.
- [70:24]
J. Kyle Mann
And so much of it just kind of the luck of just lining up with. And San Antonio as a franchise has had a lot of this in general. If you just zoom out of their misfortune lining up with. We talked about this like the number one pick in every draft is not the same. You know, they're not all created. It all really depends on the talent coming into classes and the good fortune of them ending up with, you know, teams passing over Stefan Castle, Dylan Harper getting it just. It has lined up with them so perfectly in a way that these are the things historically that we. We circle back and we're like, well, if you remember this little detail. Yeah, it's an insanely good stroke of luck for them yet again as a franchise.
- [71:02]
Justin Varrier
And the next two drafts are supposed to be pretty bad. And so I could already see the league instituting this and then taking a victory lap that it actually worked. When in actuality, I don't think any team wants to be in the top pick conversation for the next two years. And so I have to imagine that's why Utah and some of these other tankers, like, got ahead of this. Maybe they saw the rules coming down. Or maybe they're just like, actually, we don't want to have the top pick pick next year and have Tyron Stokes just being okay as our number one player.
- [71:29]
J. Kyle Mann
Yeah.
- [71:30]
Justin Varrier
Definitely won't be the number one player for Kentucky. Am I right, Kyle?
- [71:33]
J. Kyle Mann
Yeah. I wonder. I was like, I wanted to pat you on the back for pulling that. That was good for you, Justin.
- [71:38]
Justin Varrier
Yeah, we didn't want him practice at the hoop summit.
- [71:43]
Rob Mahoney
Do you have any takes? What's in the notebook?
- [71:46]
Justin Varrier
Pretty cool
- [71:49]
J. Kyle Mann
headline.
- [71:50]
Justin Varrier
Pretty cool. Who's the kid from Arkansas that I love?
- [71:54]
J. Kyle Mann
Jordan Smith.
- [71:55]
Rob Mahoney
Bill Clinton.
- [71:57]
Justin Varrier
Jordan Smith. Electric Rob.
- [72:00]
J. Kyle Mann
You don't even know a lightning bug.
- [72:03]
Rob Mahoney
I've got to be honest. I straight up don't know.
- [72:05]
J. Kyle Mann
Yeah.
- [72:06]
Justin Varrier
All right. Something to look forward to.
- [72:08]
Rob Mahoney
Okay, thank you.
- [72:10]
Justin Varrier
All right, let's wrap it there. We'll be back on Monday. Thank you to Victoria Valencia. Thank you to Isaiah Blakely for staying up late. Enjoy a full weekend of NBA basketball. We'll talk to you next time. 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800- GAMBLER or 1-800-MY RESET. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050. For 24. 7 support in Massach, call 1-877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY in New York, Louisiana, call 1-877-770-7867. Your next chapter in healthcare starts at
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J. Kyle Mann
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Justin Varrier
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Rob Mahoney
meet instructors and learn about our associate
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J. Kyle Mann
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Rob Mahoney
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J. Kyle Mann
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Rob Mahoney
For information on program outcomes, visit carrington.edu.si.
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J. Kyle Mann
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Rob Mahoney
money because behind every headline is a
- [73:40]
J. Kyle Mann
bottom line, whether it's the funds fueling AI for crypto's trillion dollar swings. There's a money side to every story. And when you see the money side, you understand what others miss.
- [73:53]
Rob Mahoney
Get the money side of the story.
- [73:55]
Justin Varrier
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