Coop or Kon for Rookie of the Year? | Real Ones

Summary

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The Ringer NBA Show – "Coop or Kon for Rookie of the Year? | Real Ones"

Date: April 7, 2026
Host: Logan Murdoch
Guests: Raja Bell, Howard Beck
Producer: Cliff

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the 2026 NBA Rookie of the Year race between Cooper Flagg and Con Knueppel. The panel debates criteria, context, and voting nuance surrounding both rookies’ remarkable seasons. They also discuss the wider team trajectories of both the Dallas Mavericks (Flagg) and the Charlotte Hornets (Knueppel), analyze Mike Malone’s surprising move to college at North Carolina, touch on the latest Bulls front office changes, and wrap up with a lively mailbag covering advanced stats, the playoff landscape, tanking, Knicks optimism, and Philly cheesesteaks.

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The Rookie of the Year Debate: Cooper Flagg vs. Con Knueppel

Setting the Scene (02:29–04:24)

• Logan Murdoch introduces the main narrative: Cooper Flagg's explosive back-to-back 40-point games, breaking rookie records held by LeBron James and Allen Iverson. Previously, Con Knueppel was the consensus Rookie of the Year per a Tim Bontemps straw poll (80 of 100 first-place votes).
• Key Facts:
  • Flagg: No. 1 option on a struggling Mavericks team
  • Knueppel: Third option on a surging Hornets team

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Raja Bell’s Player Perspective (04:24–07:32)

Quote:
"I might have underestimated his [Cooper Flagg’s] true upside in terms of ball in the hand, number one offensive weapon on a high level team." – Raja Bell [04:56]

• Flagg has greatly surpassed expectations—Raja originally pegged him as a “Swiss army knife” role player, but his primary scoring and growth are “a lot higher…than I initially thought.”
• Readiness at the NBA level comes from skills, physical tools, but also adaptability and “self awareness”—Flagg’s background taught him to fit various roles.

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Howard Beck’s Voter’s Lens & Narrative Tension (07:32–12:17)

Quote:
"I think it's super, super close between Khan Knueppel and Cooper Flagg. As an individual voter, I think it’s really close…you can make a really strong case for either one." – Howard Beck [08:28]

• Details of Bontemps’ straw poll: not official voters, but typically predictive.
• Flagg's recent outburst has shifted public perception (see betting odds), but Beck cautions: “We, the voting body, are not what is that gullible.”
• Nuances in comparison:
  • Flagg: pure volume scorer on a bad team
  • Knueppel: efficient shooter, big culture/impact role on a playoff team

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Weighing Value: Volume vs. Efficiency & Context (12:17–18:46)

• Games played: Flagg missed significant time (12 fewer games).
• Knueppel’s elite shooting: "He's having the best three point shooting season in history by a rookie…43% on eight threes a game." – Howard Beck [19:35]
• Team impact: Knueppel elevated Charlotte from perennial lottery to playoff lock; Flagg’s individual numbers more impressive, but context matters.
• “It’s being the guy versus being one of the guys.” — Raja Bell [17:45]

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Final Takes – No Wrong Answers, but Tough Choices (18:46–21:38)

• Both panelists acknowledge the case could go either way—Raja leans Flagg for handling higher usage and tougher matchups, but gives major props to Knueppel’s historic efficiency.
• Stat lines are close: Flagg with slightly better per-game stats, Knueppel with higher efficiency and larger team leap.

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Team Outlooks: Mavericks vs. Hornets (22:05–27:02)

Question: Which team has the brighter future?

• Both Howard and Raja pick Charlotte's core (Knueppel, LaMelo, Brandon Miller, Miles Bridges) for the next 3–5 years.
• Dallas’ future is cloudier:
  • Their draft picks are mostly owed through 2030. [25:54]
  • Kyrie Irving (33, coming off ACL) is a big unknown.
  • Dallas needs a near-flawless rebuild around Flagg.

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Mike Malone Goes to North Carolina: Pro Coaches in the New NCAA (29:21–39:54)

Key Quotes:
"College basketball now is way closer to pro basketball than it's ever been. It is, in fact, pro basketball." – Raja Bell [31:26]

• Raja’s take: The college-NBA gap is shrinking due to NIL and transfers; Malone’s NBA background suits the modern, transactional NCAA.
• Recruiting now has three factors: money, development, and relationships (with Malone having strong credentials for development, less certain for instant draw).
• Howard highlights Malone’s mix of 'hard-ass' and 'empathy' (like Popovich)—should translate well to recruiting, with the ability to be tough on college players in a way NBA coaches can’t.

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Bulls’ Front Office Overhaul (41:24–43:23)

• Howard laughs at the question—“My faith went up a little that they actually are changing the front office.”
• Chicago’s main issue has been an ambition deficit—ownership must empower hires and spend rather than accepting mediocrity.

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Lively Mailbag & Rapid-Fire Topics

Denver Nuggets vs. San Antonio Spurs Playoff Potential (43:42–49:39)

• Advanced stat “defensive leverage” defined: Attempts to quantify players’ in-game impact swing.
• Nuggets are poised to threaten anyone when healthy; Cam Johnson’s performance (career-high 3P shooting) is a key variable.
• Jokic-Wemby is a “must-watch” matchup reminiscent of Shaq vs. Yao. [49:39]

Tanking & Pick Protections (51:00–52:50)

Q: Would ending pick protections reduce tanking?

• Howard: It’s a real solution and has been discussed, but you can’t undo existing trades—must grandfather current agreements.

Mitchell Robinson’s Historic Offensive Rebounding (53:05–55:57)

• His 24.5% offensive rebound rate is an all-time mark but “no one’s raising a banner” for it—still, a vital playoff asset for the Knicks.
• Knicks remain a threat, but not favored for Finals.

Philly Cheesesteak Power Rankings (56:54–59:07)

• Locals don’t go to Pat’s or Geno’s (“If you went to Pat’s and Geno’s anytime past 1990, there’s something wrong with you.” – Cliff [59:16])
• Today’s favorites: Angelo’s and Del Rossi’s, with a “gatekeeper” third option held in reserve.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "It doesn’t take anything away, but... ask most shooters—they’ll tell you it’s a significant advantage to not have to create that off the bounce." – Raja Bell [21:35]
• "It’s being the guy versus being one of the guys… there’s no way to put that into words, how different it is." – Raja Bell [17:45]
• "College basketball now is way closer to pro basketball... It is, in fact, pro basketball." – Raja Bell [31:26]
• "No one’s raising a banner at Madison Square Garden for his [Mitchell Robinson’s] offensive rebounding percentage record." – Howard Beck [54:12]
• "If you went to Pat’s and Geno’s anytime past like 1990… something’s wrong with you." – Cliff [59:16]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:29] – Rookie of the Year race background
• [04:24] – Raja Bell on Flagg’s development
• [07:32] – Howard Beck explains the straw poll and narratives
• [12:17] – Impact of games played on Rookie of the Year
• [18:46] – Statistical breakdown: volume vs. efficiency
• [22:05] – Mavericks vs. Hornets long-term outlook
• [29:21] – Mike Malone to UNC; college basketball’s pro shift
• [41:24] – Chicago Bulls front office shakeup
• [43:42] – Nuggets vs. Spurs, defensive leverage explained
• [51:00] – Ending pick protections to curb tanking
• [53:05] – Mitchell Robinson’s offensive rebounding milestone
• [56:54] – Philly cheesesteak rankings and local food lore

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Tone & Flow

The episode is candid, conversational and expert-driven—a blend of veteran player perspective (Raja), journalist-skeptic (Beck), and offbeat, energetic host (Logan), with regular doses of humor and local color (Cliff). The Rookie of the Year debate centers the episode, but the group shifts fluidly between technical analysis, big-picture NBA themes, and witty banter.

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For listeners who missed it:
Expect a thorough debate on rookie value and context, a primer on how awards are really decided, insights on the shifting NCAA, and authentic, playful NBA community talk—from playoff X’s and O’s to the best cheesesteak joints in Philly.

Transcript

[Cliff]

Foreign.

[Logan Murdoch]

Logan Murdoch here, Raja Bell and Howard Beck in a second. We talk about the rookie of the year race and what are the implications for Cooper Flag and Conquer Nipple's teams going forward. What's going to happen with those two teams? Who's going to win the award? What's going to go into the voting process? Thank God we have our own resident voter and Howard Beck and then, you know, we obviously get Raj's perspective on that, on who should win the award, the nuance beyond the award and who deserves it. From a player perspective, is Con canipple going to get points deducted because he's the third option on a playoff team or is Cooper Flag going to get rewarded for being a number one option on a terrible team? A lot of questions to be to be answered in the coming weeks. Let me talk a little bit about Mike Malone going to North Carolina and the ramifications of that. What does that mean for our college program and what does that mean for the professionalization of college basketball? That was a really interesting discussion. We talk also about a little bit about the Bulls. Not too much. We just get Howard's perspective on the Bulls and, you know, taking away their front office and what does that mean for the Bulls going forward? And then we get to Mailbag and get all your questions there. Really, really fun episode. All right, I think that's it for now.

[Howard Beck]

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[Raja Bell]

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[Howard Beck]

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[Raja Bell]

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[Logan Murdoch]

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[Howard Beck]

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[Raja Bell]

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[Logan Murdoch]

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[Raja Bell]

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[Howard Beck]

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[Logan Murdoch]

Cliff, play the theme music. What's poppin? Real ones. Logan Murdoch here. Howard for the back there. Rajabel over there. Cliff on the board, Victoria on the video. Let's talk some Rookie of the Year race. Cooper Flag had a bit of a weekend where he scored over 40 points back to back games. He broke LeBron James's rookie record of most 40 point games in a rookie season. LeBron did that in 0304 season and he broke Allen Iverson's record from the 96, 97 season. I'm saying that because producer Cliff is a Philly bull and I just, you

[Raja Bell]

know, we gotta do a Philly shout

[Logan Murdoch]

out somehow here, right? But going into the weekend, Kant Canipple Last weekend con Canipple was the overwhelming favorite for rookie of the Year, especially based on the straw poll from our friend Tim Bond Tips who did a special rookie of the year one this year. But let's start with this weekend where Cooper Flag, you know me and Raja has have talked about this, you know, throughout last summer and last season going into this rookie season about what the expectations of Cooper Flag was going to be. Right. And Raja, I don't remember you saying that. Cooper Flag will be a great compliment at the time for a Kyrie Irving when he comes back and for a team like with Anthony Davis who is trying to have championship aspirations to be able to plug and play and be really good for that team. That team is now injured. A.D. is traded away. Kyrie is expected back next season. But this is very much Cooper Flag show. What did he show? Has he shown you this season and what did this weekend show you as well? Raja?

[Raja Bell]

Yeah, I don't know that the weekend, I mean maybe it did, you know, you're. You're going back to back 40 plus games in the NBA. That's, that's real deal. So that does say something. I don't, I don't want to marginalize that at all. I think you know what he showed me, and I've said it before on the pod, is that you know, I might have underestimated his true upside in terms of ball in the hand, number one offensive weapon on a high level team. Like I might have underestimated his ceiling in that regard. I did think that of all the kids in the draft he was going to be as ready as anyone to come in and provide a role on a team if it was intact, that had a chance to win games because he had always won games at every level and he was kind of a Swiss army knife at those levels. I mean, if you go back to mon Verde, he averaged 17 a game on a really good team, and they won because he says, hey, this is what you need me to do as the best player, and no worries, I'll get that done. He went to Duke. I don't know if it was 19 a game, but again, loaded team and not necessarily I have to do it all. Scoring the ball just does everything you need. So I knew he would fit that bill. I thought that's what they would look like in fairness. And I'll just double down on my being wrong about just exactly what he would look like with the ball in his hands and the responsibility for scoring the lion's share of the points. I didn't know he would be that fluid, that versatile. I didn't think he would grow in, in the leaps and bounds with which he grew that quickly. And so it's been pretty impressive to see him do that. You know, I'll save some of the rest of what I want to say until after we get into, you know, Howard's comments and stuff like that. But, like, you know, that's a situation you drop a kid into. Not a ton of help, balls in his hands. You expect a lot out of him. It's really, really, really, really good showing and a lot quicker and quite frankly, a lot higher upside than I initially thought.

[Logan Murdoch]

I want to stick with Roger really quickly. I want to say on something, you said something about just his readiness, like, what makes a rookie ready at this level, not only to just like, survive, but do what he's doing at this stage. What does that take?

[Raja Bell]

You know, clearly there's a skill set that you have to have. There's a familiarity with size, speed, you know, athleticism. He had that in spades. He played at Duke, but he also, you heard all the stories of him in high school and at Duke, playing against a lot of pros. There are. There are videos of that out there. So he was going to be ready in that regard. I think what hampers a lot of Rook sometimes is just self awareness, you know, like not understanding that you do have a role when you get to a team that is ready to win and that role might not be the one you're accustomed to playing. I thought because of Coop's upbringing and the teams that he played on and the sacrifices that he had made in his scholastic and NCAA career, that he was uniquely kind of set up as a high, high, high end player to hop in there and say, hey, what do you guys need me to do. Let me take care of that. Yeah.

[Logan Murdoch]

All right, Howard, let's. Let's level set the rookie of the year race at this point, right? Because it's, it's funny because last week before all this was happening, our, like I said, our buddy Tim Bon put out a straw poll for MVP but added a rookie of the year straw poll specifically for this season. And in that straw poll con has 81st place votes to Cooper flags 20. And you know it, you know it's very nuanced in that way, right? Cooper flag goes down this season and when he does go down during that stretch, Conal has a major run. It kind of takes, takes the award away. Where are we at right now? Like does this from a voting perspective, like what does this, this, this weekend mean? It's it. He did it against LeBron. He did one of those games against LeBron James. I believe he broke the record against LeBron James. There was a lot of. There's a lot of noise around Cooper flagging and all the old arguments are coming back into the fold about why he should get it and all the narratives and all the push are coming back to on his side. But does it really affect what the rookie of the year voting actually will be?

[Howard Beck]

It's a really interesting few days of like data points and observations and obviously games and Cooper flag was freaking awesome. Listen, I'm not gonna say that this is the way things happen because of this, but it feels more than coincidental that concanipple gets 80 out of 100 first place votes in the straw poll and Tim Bontem straw polls, to be very clear, he doesn't get the necessarily the exact 100 voters, but it's usually very close. And his straw polls on MVP have always very closely approximated the final result, especially the later in the season ones. He didn't do rookie of the year until now because of just how fascinating and how tight this race seemed. I think it's super, super close between Khan Kanippel and Cooper flag. As an individual voter, I think it's really close. It is like 5149 type territory. You can flip a coin, you can make a really strong case for either one of them. So the straw pole does not reflect that. Right. Because if all of us and Botips mentioned this on, on their pod the other day and I thought this was a, a smart way of, of, of noting it, like if we're all 5,149, but we all just happen to lean the same way or 80 out of 100 leaned the same way to Con Cannipple. It looks like a landslide but it doesn't mean it's not super close. It when you're comparing them side by side and their cases for rookie of the year I think it is super close. Now the Dallas and Cooper Flag advocates are saying get the hell out of here. It's not close. Watch them play. Cooper Flag is, is a much, much better player than not knocking Con Cooper saying he's a much better player.

[Logan Murdoch]

I mean Cooper Flag plays as a number one option, gets guarded by the best player.

[Howard Beck]

Right.

[Logan Murdoch]

Doesn't get guarded by the best player. You're getting all of these arguments right now.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah. Because their, their roles with their respective teams are very different. Right. Concaniple is essentially the third option on a very good team. In fact, forget their record for the moment in the standings because this is being used to knock Concan up Case they're one of the four to five best teams in the NBA since January 3rd. They have a three month track record after a dismal start of being one of the best teams in the NBA with their record and their net rating and everything else right up there with Oklahoma, San Antonio, Detroit and Con has been a huge part of that. Whereas Cooper Flag has way more responsibility. Is the number one slash maybe only option on a really bad Dallas Mavericks team where he has to do everything. So it is, it is an apples to oranges type of comparison. It's very different. But you try to figure out the totality of their season. It's not who is the most skilled rookie. It's not who's going to have the best career rookie. It's who's had the best rookie season period. Is Cooper Flag a much higher ceiling player? Yeah, I think we knew that going in. That's why he was the number one overall pick. But the last piece of this was so Cooper Flag feels like he might have been sending a message in the wake of the poll results. I'm not accusing anybody of anything but hell, their games don't matter anyway. Might as well go for the numbers. Certainly left an impression and such a strong impression that a number of odds makers came out of the weekend saying Cooper Flag now leads in the rookie of the Year race. Let me just stop everybody there. Let me stop the listeners there. I don't know about gambling, I don't care about gambling. I don't gamble. It wouldn't be ethical for me to be gambling in NBA stuff anyway as an NBA reporter and certainly not on awards. But if odds makers are saying that Cooper Flag is now leading because he scored 95, 96 points over two games after a straw poll that drew on the actual likely voters had it 80, 20. Please do not believe the odds makers. We, the voting body are not.

[Raja Bell]

What is that gullible? What if, what if it Was just the 2% though? Like, oh, that. I mean, they have to move the needle incredibly. What if it just flipped? What if it just flipped you from 51 him to 51 the other possible, Raja.

[Howard Beck]

Absolutely possible. Fair point. Of the 80 voters who went con and if they were all 5149 and all of them were swayed by two really great games. But the problem is like it's a full season award and I think most of us are sober minded enough not to be caught up in the moment or to be, you know, captives of the moment. It's a full 82 game season and so you're trying to assess all of it. And part of what's dragged down Cooper Flag's candidacy a little bit was, yeah, he missed 12 games or excuse me, I don't remember how many games he missed total, but he's played 12 fewer games than con canipple. That is three to three and a half weeks worth of games. And when you're, when we do this with mvp, all NBA, any of the awards, we always factor in games played. And if your impact was greater because you played significantly more games, that's always been a factor. So that comes into play too. The Hornets record comes into play. You can argue that it shouldn't because that's a context thing. Most great rookies get drafted onto shit teams. That's how you ended up with them in the first place. And so, you know, record could be a tiebreaker, but I don't think it should be the most important thing. Then again, Con canipple's contributions to the Hornets are a huge part of the reason, a significant key factor in why they have gone from perennial lottery team to potentially a top six seed in the east like they are.

[Logan Murdoch]

It's the melon argument.

[Howard Beck]

Carmelo LeBron. Yeah, like there's a lot of similarities there. And I think, like this is, I think this is a really difficult case and a very close case. And I will say no small share of lobbying coming at us as voters over the last four years.

[Logan Murdoch]

A lot of PR guys on your phone right now. A lot of, a lot of people hitting you up, a lot of texts.

[Howard Beck]

I'll be clear. I welcome it. Like, I don't, I don't mind it at all. I like being able to test my arguments and play devil's advocate with both of them. Right. If it's the Cooper Flag advocate on the phone, I'm pushing back on the with the con case. If it's the con knipple advocate on the phone, I push back the co like I I, I like to have it tested my own arguments. I like hearing all the data that they're going to throw at me and all the all the arguments they're going to throw at me. Like I think it helps hone my own v view of this. That said, I don't know which way I'm going still.

[Logan Murdoch]

What's the likelihood of a tie?

[Howard Beck]

Zero. So people might remember that once upon a time Jason K. Grant Hill tied There have been some ties in NBA history. That was when there was a one line ballot. It was an all or nothing ballot and for whatever reason the NBA chose to have an even number of voters. So if there were a hundred voters and it's a one line ballot, literally you could go 50, 50 and it's a tie. Now it is a three slot ranked ballot with points allocated for the first, second and third spots. And no you're not. People say oh well, just split the vote. Oh just give it, make it a time. We can't manufacture that even if we wanted to. And I don't think mathematically it's even possible.

[Raja Bell]

I no vote here. And what wouldn't be terribly upset if either one of them got the award. I am in the 51% that thinks that Cooper Flag deserves the reward and that's not to take anything away from what Con Knippel has done. But I just have experience firsthand from defending someone who's got to create his own plays and the job that that requires me to do as a defensive player versus defending someone who while you are running sets for them, they also eat way more frequently off of you having to help on someone else on their team, thus creating a wide open shot for them. And on the flip side of that, I had a very brief moment in time when I was traded from from Phoenix to to Charlotte where on any given night if Raymond Felton didn't feel great or Gerald Wallace, who was kind of our number one, was hurt, I would then be asked to be the hub of offense. And you know, the way they had to do it for me was kind of like they used to do it for Richard Hamilton or kind of like they did it for Reggie because that's what that was. My skill Set it was the best part of my skill set was like, coming off of screens and shooting. So it, it might not look the same, but it did kind of comp. You know, Con does that really well. I'm not comparing me to him as a player in any way, shape or form, but going from my normal comfortable space on the teams I had been in, which was, you know, a third option, fourth option. I'll eat off of what you do to a defense type of player to being the player who has to set the table for everyone else and has defenses saying, hey, the scout tonight is our bell is coming off of these screens. And when he does that, this is our only focus on this play. It's don't let that happen. The difference between those two things is I can't articulate the difference between them.

[Logan Murdoch]

I, I.

[Raja Bell]

There's no way to put that into words, how different it is being the guy and being one of the guys. And so for that reason, again, Khan's had a phenomenal season. I'm not trying to take anything away. If he got it, I wouldn't be terribly upset. But for those reasons, Eileen Coop, because, God, that's just so different, bro. They're being asked to do two completely different things.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah, I was gonna say, like, I think it's fair to, like, say, because of the burden and the responsibility that Cooper Flag has, we need to, like, view that. Like, that's why you take the record out of it potentially. Right? Like, I think it's part of Con Knippel's case, but it can't be a. The most persuasive part of his case. There it is. It really is a tough comparison because of how different their roles are, but when it comes right down to it, and you think about the totality of, of their season, like, who it's, it's like, who had the better season, whatever better season means, right? So start. We start by looking at, like, top stats, right?

[Raja Bell]

Is some of that relative to expectation, too, though, Howard?

[Howard Beck]

Well, I mean that, like, that one's funny, too, right? Because in some respects, you'd say that Cooper Flag has totally lived up to expectation. Right. He was supposed to be a generational type talent who could do a ton of stuff with the ball in his hands, and we've seen that. Right. Has not exceeded expectations in terms of being able to lead the Mavericks somewhere. But that's because the roster kind of blows and they had more injuries and whatever. If anybody thought the Mavericks, there were some people who got really overhyped on the Mavs preseason. I can't remember who, who were saying like oh, they're going to be a top four team in the west. Which was fucking nuts. Khan has way exceeded expectations in, in Charlotte, right? Like Cooper Flag is meeting the expectations of, of being the number one overall pick. Con Canipa was like oh, like yeah, was fourth overall pick or whatever. Like yeah, everybody thinks he's going to be a very good pro, but like he's having the best three point shooting season in history by a Rookie. He's shooting 43% on eight threes a game. He's leading the three, leading the NBA in three pointers made. He's got 265 threes. That's the most by anybody in the league. And it would be 33rd all time. They've got three more games. So with another like 20, another like 10 to 11 threes in his last few games, he could have one of the top 23 point seasons of all time. By total threes made. He's fourth in the NBA in threes per game behind Steph Luca and Lamelo. But he has more total than them. So like and he's a major factor in the Hornets becoming a respectable team. And if you talk to people in Charlotte they'll also say like he's part of what changed the culture here, right? Like yes, Lamelo is, has played more discipline this year. Yes. Brandon Miller took another leap this season. Yeah, there, there are other contributions happening including from their other rookies. But Con Canipple, in addition to just the three point shooting, like he's been a pretty good playmaker. He's a decent enough rebounder. He can do other things with the ball in his hands. He's not some spot up shooter. Somebody tried to tell me it's just like you know Steve Kerr from back in the 90s. Like no, he's not some spot up shooter out there. Like Con canymple could do a lot more and he can create his own shot. So like there's a very strong case for him though. Cooper Flag is the better overall player with the better overall skill set. But that's why I have such a hard time with this because their cases are built so differently and the stats don't do enough to differentiate them. Cooper Flag has a two and a half point per game lead over Concan Nipple. But Cooper Flag shoots more. He has to. Cooper Flag has is averaging like one more rebound and one more assist than Conquer Nipple. Like these are marginal differences. And then on the flip side of it, Conipel is Like miles more efficient in terms of shooting because that's what he does. So it's a really tough comparison.

[Raja Bell]

Helping him do it.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah, yeah. Like can afford to play off of two other guys.

[Raja Bell]

Yeah, yeah. I mean it just, it doesn't. Again, I feel ridiculous because it doesn't take anything away. But like, ask most people who are shooters by trade and they'll tell you significant advantage to not having to create that off the bounce and having someone else hit you in the hands with the ball like that. It's just the numbers are going to bear out like that almost every time. There are rare few people that rather shoot it off the bounce than shoot it off the catch.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah.

[Logan Murdoch]

Okay, I got a question for both of you guys. I will start with Howard and then I'll go to Raja, which both of these teams are in completely different directions at this point. Cooper, flag. I think their Mavericks have they have a pick this. This season and how many pick for a first round pick for a minute. I believe and conquer nipple with the Charlotte Hornets are go to the playoffs this season hopefully and seems like they have a core that they can build with which. Which outlook are you more confident in long term? Howard, Beck, and then I'll go to Roger Bell.

[Howard Beck]

The Hornets versus the Mavs.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah. Whoo.

[Howard Beck]

Boy, that's tough. Like, this is a magical season for the Hornets, right? The last three months have just been this incredible turnaround for what had been a pretty woebegone franchise. They got new ownership, newish front office. Charles Lee is going to be one of the leaders for coach of the year, I think based on the job he's done and the season that they've had. I think the question then becomes like, all right, how much more can you get, right? How much more from Lamelo or Brandon Miller, Khan? I mean, they're all young. Like, they're all still growing and evolving. It's. I. I think that my temptation is to say I'm higher on the Hornets for the next three to five years than the Mavericks, if for no other reason than even though I've had some reservations about Lamelo. Between Lamelo, Brandon Miller, con canipple, Miles Bridges, assuming he's there, whatever the rest of the. And the rest of their guys, like they've got a core. You can look at their three to four best guys and say these guys are young and evolving and together for a while. The Mavericks, you got kyrie in his mid-30s coming off of an ACL and has missed for, you know, been out for like a year and A half, you know, gaffer to PJ Washington get hurt all the time. Derek Lively gets hurt all the time. I don't know who the Mavericks are. We'll see with where they land in the lottery, but I don't know who the Mavericks are around Cooper Flag. So for right now, not knowing what they're going to build or how, I think I have more confidence in the Hornets.

[Logan Murdoch]

What's the case for the Mavs? Roger?

[Raja Bell]

No, no, no, no, no. I don't get that question. I don't get that question. I don't know. I mean, I, I'm with Howard, you know, I think a lot of that hinges on what, what they can pair with him coming out of this year's draft. Secondly, what does Kyrie look like when he comes back? I mean, they probably have more information on that. They're behind the scenes with his rehab and, and seeing what type of player he looks like. There's so many unknowns there that it's a really hard one. To answer your question. Well, Logan, I would. Before Howard answered it. Well, I was going to go with, with Charlotte too. And as it relates to specifically kind of the timeline he laid out, the three to five years and the lamello of it all, I think the way I look at that situation is, is, you know, when you have a kid who doesn't know what he's missing in terms of trying something new, and when they try it, they're like, oh shit, this is kind of cool, or this tastes great, or hey, I've been missing out on this the whole time. And I see his situation similar to that in that, you know, he played a certain way, a style, he still plays with that, that flair and stuff. But whatever he has done as a player to buy into what they have going on and help accelerate that process, I think he'll like the taste of that. I think he'll like the experience of that. And I don't think it'll be a one off. I think, I think they can build off of it. And so for that reason, I was going to go with Charlotte too. Don't have a great answer to that question you try to throw at me. Logan Lightweight.

[Logan Murdoch]

My bad.

[Raja Bell]

F you.

[Cliff]

Okay.

[Logan Murdoch]

I just want to level set with the Mavericks really quickly. They, after this year, they, their 2027 pick actually goes to Charlotte and then they have a pick swap with the 20 in 2028 with the Oklahoma City Thunder. So if they get a lottery pick that is going to the Oklahoma City Thunder in 2029, they have to swap their pick with the Houston Rockets and then they have pick swaps with the Spurs. They won't own their pick, I believe until 2030. So it's going to be tough. They're going to have to. They're probably going to have to trade Kyrie, I think. I mean that's just, that's just the reality here and see what they can get from that. But they're going to have to. Whoever the new front office is is going to have to make shrewd moves in the trade market and get and pick up quality free agents to build around Cooper Flag. It's going to be a, it's going to be a weird type of rebuild, especially in the modern NBA. But it means Cooper has to just be bonkers.

[Raja Bell]

That makes me double down on Howard's timeline then. If you're talking, if you're, if we're doing. If that's the map for the Mavs, then for three to. Yeah, for three to five, that's a no brainer, right? Because

[Logan Murdoch]

I tried.

[Howard Beck]

It's. I mean the fact that they don't have any of their control over their picks after this season hurts the fact that their next best player, especially the next best shot creator aside from Cooper Flag. I don't want to say that Kyrie's after him. Kyrie's obviously got a lot longer track record. But like their only other true elite shot creator, their, their other star is a 33, 34 year old coming off of ACL. Right. Like I just, I flipping Kyrie. I don't know what you're getting for him. Keeping him and letting just ride it out so that you know you've got somebody else reliable next to Cooper Flag. And I'm trying to build around them like they'll, they'll have other tools to use and Dallas is an attractive place. I think people will want to play alongside Cooper Flag. I think, you know, whether it's the same front office, whether they, they, you know, make Matt Ricardi and Michael Fin, Michael Finley, the, the permanent folks or whether they bring in somebody else like I, they'll. They'll have a good template to, to do something. It's just there's a lot of unknowns in trying to build out around Cooper Flag right now.

[Logan Murdoch]

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[Howard Beck]

boys breakfast meal and hunt tricks meal have just dropped at McDonald's. They're calling this a battle for the fans. What do you say to that, Rumi? It's not a battle. So glad the Saja boys could take breakfast and give our meal the rest of the day.

[Raja Bell]

It is an honor to share.

[Howard Beck]

No, it's our honor.

[Raja Bell]

It is our larger honor.

[Howard Beck]

No, really, stop. You can really feel the respect in this battle. Pick a meal to pick a side.

[Raja Bell]

Participating McDonald's while supplies last org backslash.

[Logan Murdoch]

ChatInConnecticut. I want to ask Roger this. Switching gears really quickly before we get to the mailbag. One of the wildest moves in a minute from a head coaching standpoint is Michael Malone going to North Carolina. And you are a resident college expert. What does that mean for college right now? Like, what does that mean for college basketball? What did that tell you? What was your reaction when you saw that? Like, it just seems like a wild move at a time when college basketball is transforming into something way different than the college basketball landscape that we've seen even, you know, five, ten years.

[Raja Bell]

Yeah. Oh. So, you know, I did see that. My son brought it to my attention. North Carolina was one of the schools as he came up that he would have listed as a dream school tie. So we've kind of been tapped into, you know, the whole Hubert Davis of it all and, and, and everything like that. Can I tell a story? Can I tell a story real quick?

[Logan Murdoch]

I side. Of course.

[Raja Bell]

This is some funny shit. So last summer I was. My wife and I were with Dia out at his official visit to Texas. So Ty had what you call a live period where all the college coaches can come out and see you with his high school team. Right. So they were in Gainesville. We missed it by all counts. He played really, really well. The next weekend we meet him in Atlanta to watch him play in the second live period for his high school team. North Carolina's his dream school. So I'm sitting across the court, I watch Sean May, Hubert Davis and two other assistants, maybe one other assistant walk up and sit down, right? I'm like, oh man, this is going to be so cool for this kid, man, because he's playing really, really well. He had the worst half of basketball I've ever seen him play. Hey, wait. I felt terrible. I was sitting in the stage, just my heart was aching for this dude. And then to like add insult to injury, as he was walking back to his bench, which they were sitting behind as a group, they all got up and walked away at half. Shit.

[Logan Murdoch]

Shit.

[Raja Bell]

It was really hard to watch. Now he, in fairness, it didn't help, you know, help him at all with them, but he had like 25 in the second half of that game. But it was really funny. So anyway, I digress. The. We've been watching that. What I would say to the Malone is higher is college basketball now is way closer to pro basketball, way closer to pro basketball than it's ever been. It is in fact pro basketball, right? Like you're still there to get an education in some instances at least. Like our kids are going to school to get educations. But in some instances, you know, and I don't necessarily weigh in on whether on what should be important to you or not, but some kids are there to just maximize their earning opportunity through this window of time that you have it. And that is pro basketball, right? You're getting paid a lot of money. It's transactional to some degree. They're one year deals and so you're playing for your next contract. He will be more prepared to operate in that space then, then a lot of the coaches, you know, that were coming up under the old kind of this is the way college basketball should be. Loyalty. You come here for an education, it's not transactional. I think he'll be uniquely prepared because that's what he knows to like operate in that space. He's going to have to have a staff though, that's familiar with, you know, the landscape of high school basketball, the recruiting, all the things that go into running a program at that level. You know, I'm not super familiar with the North Carolina athletic department, their athletic director, what they've committed to spend. I don't imagine he goes there without making sure they've got the war chest ready for him to really make an impact in that way. Because, you know, it, it is like The Yankees or the Dodgers or, you know, whatever pro team you want to use who will just outspend their competitors. In a lot of these instances, if you have the bread, you can go get the type of team that puts you right in the final Four next year. But I do think offensively, what he does will translate. I think that. That he'll. That he'll be a good fit there for that. I don't know how much he speaks to college kids, quite frankly, you know, as a draw. As a draw, as a name. Like, I. You know, I know that you would hope that he would, but, like, I can only speak for mine. I don't think if you said to him, you know, this is going to be your coach, he'd be like, oh, dude, I got to go there because of that. You know, that doesn't hold.

[Howard Beck]

Can I ask Raja? But yeah, as. As a parent of. Of a prospect. Yeah, you be like, oh, yeah, this is somebody that I have a lot of. I have some familiarity with and some faith in, because I know his. His track record. I know, like. And, you know, you got, you know, guys around the league who know him. I don't know if, you know Michael, like, I would be.

[Raja Bell]

I would be Howard, absolutely. You know, like, personally, but not everybody has the exposure to the NBA that I have.

[Logan Murdoch]

Right.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah.

[Raja Bell]

And a lot. A lot of, you know, a lot of the parents of some of these kids aren't tapped in at all. So that would just be like, another name to them. You know what I mean? In some instances. But if you. If you knew pro basketball, I certainly would.

[Howard Beck]

Does. Does the. Does the former NBA coach who just won a championship within the last four years, and he throws the ring down on the table in the middle of the recruiting business? Does that mean something, or does just

[Logan Murdoch]

the, like, parents here?

[Raja Bell]

So. So, yeah, I do. I. So Cole York is a great point, because he's probably got a pretty substantially, like, stocked pipeline of kids that he can bring from Europe. You got to imagine, like, he's. You know, they drafted multiple European players that is. Is really been successful over the last couple of years in the ncaa. Howard. Yes, to some degree.

[Cliff]

Right.

[Raja Bell]

But in today's landscape, when you throw that ring down on the table, the next thing out of your mouth better be how much you got to offer him.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah, I mean, that was. What. Isn't that what Don said the other day? Like, literally, yo, it's not a matter, yo. This is the program. It's like, yo, how much money you gonna give me? That's I think you said that like a week ago.

[Raja Bell]

Yeah, so. So, like, I mean, this is probably not great for our show, but like, I talked about it the other day and. And what? You know, there were a few things that, that we were looking at, and people fall in different categories as families that are being recruited and, and what they're looking for out of the situation. Some people, it's purely financial, so, like, hey, the ring's great. My dog, you go pawn it and let me get some of that. Because if that's not the case, like, we're not interested. We're going to go to the highest bidder. You know, development is important to some people. I think, you know, Mike Malone and his staff, not unlike the cats at Florida State, who we spent some time with. Luke Locks and my man Jimmy Durant and those guys, they're from a pro background and they're. What they're saying is, hey, if that's your dream, this, we just did this. And we're going to get you prepared and play a style of play that will, that will at least prepare you. Now you got to do your job, you know, but we're going to prepare you for that. There's some families that fit into that mold. And then the last piece of it, and that's going to be interesting for Mike Malone, is there are some people that it's more about the relationship.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah.

[Raja Bell]

And if they feel like you're going to take care of their kid and, you know, not that they expect any preferential treatment, but they're saying, hey, look, we are kind of old school in that regard. We see you guys as his dad and his family away from home, and we need to make sure that the relationship between you guys is sturdy enough to withstand the ups and the downs of it. Our family took all three into account. So as it related to dia, we left money on the table, and he decided to leave money on the table to go to Texas because he felt like he was going to really get developed positionally. It was a great fit for him. He loved the people and the relationships were really, really strong. So, like, it kind of met all the criteria for us. But you never know what speaks to a family. That's the art of recruiting.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's. It. I. I'm fascinated by this. It's going to be. It's going to be really interesting to see. Like, I think when I. When I think about Michael Malone, I think about, you know, Jim Harbaugh going to go coach Stanford, where it's like his personality Might not jive well with the, you know, a pro team because, you know, everything we've heard about Denver was there was just so many clashes behind the scenes, so much stuff and so many things like that with players and sometimes stuff around front office. But in college, like you, you recycle players, you just go through players so much and it's a little bit different. And that's how like, you know, Harbaugh's been able to have success when he was in college for that reason and he's kind of, you know, always clashed with NFL teams for the, for the same reason. I do wonder if that's going to be, you know, make him more successful and, and long, a long term fit somewhere. We'll see. How were you thinking?

[Howard Beck]

Yeah, I was just gonna say like, Michael Malone has a really interesting blend of like old school and new school to him. Right. Part of what, where he graded on people in Denver, I think both above and below was maybe being a little bit too much of that hard ass sometimes. Right. He, he can really, you know, he can, he can grade on some folks. But like I, I would liken him to Greg Popovich. Like, I know that that's a, a weighty name to invoke, but I just mean like Pop could be a real hard ass, but he could also turn on the humanity and the charm and the empathy and had the ability to relate to guys and had a really warm personality when he wasn't needing to be the hard ass. And I think Michael Malone has a similar blend where he's, he's really personable. He's a really like, I've known Michael Malone since he was an assistant for the Knicks when I first got here in 2004. So I, I, I have a pretty good, like, I haven't, you know, been tight with him over 20 something years or whatever, but like we have talked many, many times during that time when he bounced to, to Cleveland to, to the warriors, to when he was head coach with the Kings. Like, I, I think I have a decent sense of him and I think that Michael Malone with that personality and that ability to kind of do both things, I think should work really well at the college level because you're gonna need to be able to put an arm around a guy and lift him up when they need it and also to on the recruiting side of it, like he definitely has. I think he can turn on the charm, but also you can be more of a hard ass with college students than you can with pros. That, that, that gets thinner faster with NBA players than it does with younger players who, who need that shaping and who, yeah, are only going to be with you for a year or two, maybe three anyway.

[Logan Murdoch]

I do wonder, though, as, as, as college gets more professionalized, how much that sentiment will last.

[Raja Bell]

Howard, I agree with you. I think he's. I, I actually think he's going to do really well. I think it's going to be really interesting for me. I'm fascinating to know whether his teams will look purely transactional, meaning, hey, we're just going out and buying the best players, like every year, or if he's going to try to hybrid it where he's getting, you know, the recruits that he thinks fit his style and then supplementing around the edges with the older kids. There's no right way to necessarily do it. It's just going to be interesting to me. I think I might pick him to lean towards the older model, the older guy that comes in there and does that. As far as, as far as being a hard ass, Howard, I like the Pop comparison and the reason why those guys are able to do that. And I've said this, there's a, there's a segment of any population, athletic or otherwise, that is always going to be averse to the discipline and the hard assery of it, all right? They, there's always going to be a population of those people. However, the vast majority of people that really want to be good at shit are okay with that. They're okay with that as long as they trust you. And so that's what Pop and those guys were great at. They developed that trust with you as a human being so that when they did that to you or they felt like they needed to, you understood where it was coming from. And mastery of that is what allows you to kind of flow in between those two things the way they kind of seamlessly do or Pop did.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah, we'll see what happens. Real quick, Howard, do the Bulls have any chance of being good again after what, their front office overhaul? Or you just. Are we just like a great sign

[Howard Beck]

that I'm answering with a laugh

[Logan Murdoch]

even. Let me finish the question.

[Howard Beck]

Very disrespectful.

[Logan Murdoch]

What's your, what's your Faith? Your faith 1 to 10. We don't have to. I don't want to spend that much time on it, but I, I just. No. Your faith.

[Howard Beck]

My faith went up a little. I hate to say it this way because it sounds mean. My faith went up a little that they actually are changing the front office. Like, no disrespect to, you know, Arturis Carnesovis or Mark Eversley. But, like, this team was just stuck in the worst of stuck ruts for the last however many years. But a lot of it has to do with ownership, too. And the Reinsdorfs haven't exactly decorated themselves for the last 20 years that, like, they need to get this higher, right? I don't know who is on the list or if they have a list yet for the front office. I haven't poked around. It just happened. But like, they need to get this higher, right? They need to empower that person and they need to let them spend and they need to not be afraid of the luxury tax and they need to just be smarter about the way they build. They have been way too satisfied as an organization to just be competent, to just be good enough to win somewhere between 38 and 42 games and be in the fucking plane every year. That cannot be your ambition. I ripped them a few weeks ago when we were talking about this, where I said something about like, they're just completely lacking in ambition and creativity. And that's the problem. So get a front office that's committed to building, smartly building, right? Building for. For sustainable, you know, competitiveness at a. At a high level, not a mediocrity level. And. And be willing to spend. So I don't have a lot of faith, only because the Bulls haven't really gotten this right in so long. But let's see who they pick. Let's see who they hire as their new front office.

[Raja Bell]

All right?

[Logan Murdoch]

Godspeed. Cliff. What's good, buddy?

[Cliff]

What up, what up, what up, what up? Fellas, fellas, fellas. What's going on, Raj? What's going on, man? I heard you make sure you check out the pa, man. I heard.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah, a couple.

[Cliff]

There we go. There we go. We gotta link up with the homie, you feel me?

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah.

[Cliff]

All right, this is. This first question is from Luke Altimari. I hope I'm saying that right. Luke Altamiri, Questions from Spurs vs Nuggets. Good day, fellas. Love the show and can't wait for the playoff pods. I can't catch all the games with y'.

[Raja Bell]

All.

[Cliff]

Show your time difference, but the ringer pods are the next best thing. Speaking of playoffs, if this game is any indication, I think we'd all welcome a seven game series between the Denver Nuggets and the San Antonio Spurs. It did raise a couple questions for me. One, during the broadcast, they spoke about Wemby and jokic being ranked 12 in player defensive leverage, which I have to admit I don't fully understand. Sounds like some subjective nerd jargon. Do you place any stock in it? Number two, Cam Johnson was catching a lot of flak during the season, but maybe coming good at the right time. Double digits scoring in eight of the last 10 games and his defense looks solid in this game. Can he be the difference maker everyone thought he would be before the season? Cheers to Luke.

[Logan Murdoch]

Salute. Probably some subjective nerd jargon. I'm just excited to see Wimby and Yitzch go at it. You know, they had a awesome game about a week ago. I want to see seven games of that and I was just saying this. Even this is before the pre pod like Denver looks good. Over the last few weeks they've scored. They've 19 in a row. I think they beat Portland in overtime last night. They're going to be a force to be reckoned with like they are every season. Right. They always are. A team that are laying in the weeds. They've had a lot of injuries and I think Denver is going to be the biggest test for San Antonio. I think because one of the things that San Antonio was able to do, they're able to leverage their length but the reason why they're able to leverage their length is because they have Victor Wembanyama in the back in the front court. And yogurts can be the anecdote to that. And San Antonio is, is, is so young that this might. And I always say I've said this to my editor, I've said this to Howard, I think I've said this to Raja. This might be the last year like Denver can, can beat on San Antonio because of their youth, you know, so they need to take advantage of this and I think they're going to play hard and I think that this is, this is going to be the biggest test that San Antonio has during their early stress. Cam Johnson has also been good. I mean they just needed him to be solid this season. He's had, you know, some difficulties to do that. But they just need him to be solid and they need him to just continue to be consistent. I think that he'll be fine. This is just another normal nugget season to where they around and they have injuries sometimes and they come in around right time and everyone's scared of them. That's, that's what I, that's my analysis.

[Raja Bell]

My bad. I'm going to be quick Howard and you go I'm. I'd be fat. Is that was it Called defensive leveraging. Is that, was that what the defensive leverage?

[Howard Beck]

Yeah, It's. It's an NBA.com stat. I had to look it up. I wasn't aware like I didn't have the audio on the broadcast on the whole time. So like I had to like go check this myself. I had not heard it. Yeah, it's an NBA.com stat. It's an advanced stat that tries shift measure. It's trying to measure. So there's offensive leverage, defensive leverage, and then you have the total leverage. Right. And it's, it's trying to account for like when you have these swings within a span of the game, what the things that you did, a rebound, a steal, a block, whatever, how did it impact the potential outcome at that point? That's, that's my vague understanding of it. I had to reach out to some of my stat friends this morning to explain.

[Raja Bell]

Jesus Christ. That's. Wow. Yeah, I hear that they're putting numbers on momentum. We just quantified momentum. What was I going to say? I look, Denver, when healthy is a problem for just about everybody. You know, you might have some teams picked to beat them and favor that team slightly in a seven game series with Denver, but every team that Denver would see when healthy is going to be in some sort of dog fight. I just believe that. And the difference between the team that I just described, Denver, and the team Denver that gets hot and wins a championship is if somebody outside of the normal usual suspects for them is playing really, really, really good basketball. So if you were to get a Cam Johnson that played on fire throughout the playoffs and you were getting your normal Jamal Murray, Aaron Gordon, Jokic, if you're getting normal production from them and you get a fourth person that just says, hey, I'm going out of my mind for this stretch, then they become a different animal in my book, quite frankly. They're already, to Logan's point, a very, very, very dangerous draw for, for anybody, OKC included. You know, OKC would fall into the, hey, I think they beat them, but dangerous for anybody.

[Howard Beck]

The Cam Johnson part, he's actually shooting a career high from three quietly by a little bit. He's shooting like 429 from three. His best season was 425 with the Suns in 20, 21, 22. So I just like took him. He was banged up. He was, you know, new environment, trying to figure out, you know, how to play off of, of Yoko Chimuri, all that stuff. Like, you know, he's fine. I think they really need the best version of his defense, in addition to that three point shooting that, that has been like. I know he's not an elite defender, but like his, his mobility and range and length, like it's an important part of it because the Nuggets always have to kind of manufacture it on the perimeter. Then he Peyton Watson back. But that game was so fucking awesome. That was such a great game. And Jokic and Wemby are dominant in such different ways. And watching them occasionally go head to head in that game and Wemby just swallowing like it was just funny. Even at tip off. Because I haven't had this sensation very many times in, in my career. But it was one of those times where they're, they're walking to center court for tip off and I'm like, holy shit. Jokic is this like massive human being. And Wimby makes him look small.

[Logan Murdoch]

He just towers like Shaq and Yao.

[Howard Beck]

It's like Shaq and Yao the first time they ever played against each other. And I'm looking up and we're sitting courtside at that time. So you're at kind of eye level watching as Yao's head is a full head above Sha. And I'm like, like this is just, it's, it's, it's, it feels like an optical illusion. Like this should not be possible. But it was, it was awesome. The game was awesome. I ab I absolutely believe that no matter what the Nuggets have gone through this season and Logan nailed it. The Nuggets around during the regular season ever since the championship. Like their regular seasons are often a little less than, than overwhelming. But you know they're going to bring it in the playoffs. And Jamal Murray has been awesome this season. He's back to the old Jamal Murray. Jokic is still incredible, averaging a triple double for the season. Aaron Gordon's back and looking really good. They need Peyton Watson back. As I said, Christian Brown is back. Cam Johnson, I think has been a good fit. I, I, They're a threat. They're a threat.

[Logan Murdoch]

Hey, Cliff, I wish we, I wish we saw those Jokic and Bead matchups more often. Like we said. I'm sorry, what's the next question?

[Howard Beck]

Why you got to do that to Cliff?

[Logan Murdoch]

Exactly.

[Howard Beck]

Uncalled for.

[Cliff]

Also, when you send in these questions, they appreciate. Please make it more succinct, man. We can't be doing the paragraphs. We gotta get. We got a time constraint here, people. This next question is from William Shields. Will. Fort Lauderdale, right in Roger's backyard.

[Raja Bell]

Will.

[Cliff]

This is probably more likely For Howard, though.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah. This is a Howard question.

[Cliff]

Do you think getting rid of pick protections and trades could materially reduce tanking? I feel like it is a clear first act, but I haven't heard anyone mention it. Will from Fort Lauderdale.

[Raja Bell]

Yo, Howard.

[Cliff]

Boo.

[Raja Bell]

You want to. You want a quick pick to get the switch, or you just want us out the way? Cause, I mean, if you just. If you like your matchup, you could just go.

[Logan Murdoch]

But we're good. Cause I'll be in the corner just waiting, dog. You know, right here.

[Howard Beck]

I'm just gonna say, like, pick protection has been discussed ad nauseam. I don't think it's been overlooked at all. And it has been in some of the proposals the NBA has floated internally and externally. So getting rid of pick protection could. Could be a huge a. A significant part of trying to curb tanking. The most notable recent one was, of course, producer Cliff's Philadelphia 76ers tanking hard a year ago so they could keep their top six or whatever protected pick they weren't taking.

[Cliff]

They were just losing. Hey, nobody was healthy. They weren't taking. They were just.

[Howard Beck]

Dude, come on.

[Cliff]

They were just bad clef. Cliff. Cliff.

[Howard Beck]

It got them bj Edge, comb. They got what they needed out of it. It was successful. Would the Sixers have handled the last couple months of last season differently if not for a protected pick? Yes, they would have. So, yeah, it's a. It is one piece of a bigger puzzle, I think, for the league, but that's hard because those pick protections are already in play for a bunch of future traded picks, and you can't just wipe that out by doing draft reform right now. Like, you got to at least grandfather in the protections that are already out there. I would say. I think the teams will flip out if you just. If you just took that away. Oklahoma conveyed.

[Logan Murdoch]

Or.

[Howard Beck]

Or that are already traded. What's that?

[Logan Murdoch]

I said Oklahoma City, specifically. Yeah, yeah. We need more money.

[Howard Beck]

Get rich. It gets richer. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, we'll see.

[Logan Murdoch]

Beck throws it up. Bang. We didn't need to do. We didn't do. Roger, you see that? You saw Gray shot it from 30ft.

[Raja Bell]

Yeah, Don, like, let him cook.

[Logan Murdoch]

Okay. You know what I mean? What's the next question? Clip?

[Cliff]

All right, let's get to this final one. Another one, actually, for Beck. Historic Mitchell Robinson season. This is from Steve Frisher. What up, Beck? Can we get some perspective on Mitchell Robinson? Absolutely. Demolishing the single season offensive rebound percentage this year and how that will impact the Knicks in the playoffs? The dude is at 24 and a half percent on the season, shattering the previous mark held by Jason Williams. And at 20 and a half percent. The Knicks clearly had a plan this year of keeping Mitch healthy and avoiding back to backs. And it's worked. So come playoffs, with no back to backs on the schedule, how much will slash can Mitch help the Knicks? Steve F. Steve Fisher. Shout out to Steve Fisher.

[Howard Beck]

Thanks for the question, Steve. I'll just say this is not to diminish Mitchell Robinson's offensive rebounding talents at all, but like a historic offensive rebounding percentage season does not. Like, this is not the same thing as like Jokic going like averaging a triple double and back to back seasons or you know, Luca averaging 33 and a half or whatever. Like there are a lot of records and a lot of marks and especially in today's NBA where we can measure.

[Logan Murdoch]

They're not going to stop the game for that, Howard. They're not going to stop the game for that.

[Howard Beck]

I don't think so. No, no, I, I love stat head and basketball reference. And it's fun to be able to like see how everything ranks historically. But like it's not. No, no one's, no one's raising a banner at Madison Square Garden for his offensive rebounding percentage record, assuming that that's what he ends up with.

[Raja Bell]

I do, I do love an offensive rebound though.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah, dude.

[Raja Bell]

Such a motor, such a motor thing, man. Just, just all will offensive rebound and I love him.

[Howard Beck]

And, and no, listen, listen. It is, it is deflating for the defense. When Mitchell Robinson, he just did this, I think like last night against Atlanta where there was a possession where he like two, three offensive rebounds in a row in the same possession and it's just like it, it, it's. You, you can tell me, Raja, but like it's, it's. That's deflating. You've defended for 24 seconds. You've, you've prevented it. They got a bad shot off and then boom, there's another shot. Boom, there's another shot. Isaiah Hartenstein was really key in the playoffs for them doing this a couple years ago before they lost him to free agency. Mitchell Robinson finally being healthy and yes, credit to the Knicks and their medical staff are doing a masterful job of nursing him through the season. The guy is always having injury issues. They've done a great job of managing his minutes and games and he's going to be really important in the playoffs. There's, there's no question about it. Josh Hart's also a great offensive rebounder. And between the two of them, the way they keep possessions alive is a big part of what makes the Knicks a 50 plus win team and a threat in the, in the playoffs. But, but no, I don't think anybody is going doing backflips over the offensive rebounding percentage all time high over Jason Williams with a yard. The one who played for the mostly the New Jersey Nets back in the day and had a very unfortunate end to his public life career. Don't, don't, don't look it up.

[Logan Murdoch]

My, when I think about Mr. Robinson, I think about the fundamental flaw of the Knicks, which is he's their best front court defender. And there it seems like they are better when he's on the floor, especially defensively. And it kind of gets overridden because Katie, they need cats offense, right? And that's always like the, the push and pull of what I see them in the postseason and I don't know what, what is going to win out. I think that's just going to be something. As long as those two guys are on the roster, that's going to permeate. I don't know. We'll see. Anybody got Nick's optimism here?

[Howard Beck]

What would qualify as optimism? How far do they have to go to be optimistic?

[Logan Murdoch]

Well, they were. I mean, yeah, I heard a lot of finals expectations and a lot of championship aspirations in the preseason. I don't think they're getting the latter, but, you know, is the former still in play?

[Howard Beck]

I, I don't rule out the possibility of them making the finals, but I don't. I wouldn't favor them.

[Logan Murdoch]

Okay.

[Raja Bell]

Yeah, I guess what would, what would be classified as optimistic? They'd have to. Yeah, I don't. I'm with Howard. Hey, I got a better question, Cliff. I got a mailbag. What are the top three cheesesteaks in Philly for when I get there?

[Howard Beck]

Oh, how can we. How's it possible? We've never done this.

[Cliff]

You gotta go to. You gotta go to Angelo's. That's probably the best in the city right now.

[Raja Bell]

That's the one, dude.

[Cliff]

That's the one. Right now you gotta plug.

[Raja Bell]

Cause I can't do two hours, my G. I'm not standing on the street for two hours for no goddamn.

[Logan Murdoch]

I'm Roger Bell. I ain't standing. I can hit on you.

[Cliff]

I'm about to say, you royalty, bro.

[Logan Murdoch]

They'll probably be like, oh, that's Roger. No, no, they don't. They probably see Roger get the in the front.

[Cliff]

Pull up anywhere you want. Stop.

[Raja Bell]

Second one In. In case the last lines too long and I don't get the hookup, Del

[Cliff]

Rossi's is right near me. That's a good joint for sure. Del Rossi's is another good one. Damn. What's the. What would be my number three?

[Raja Bell]

If you don't have one, that's fine. If you're telling me it's one of

[Cliff]

those two, I probably say those are the. Yeah, I probably say those are the top two right now that I could. That I really do like.

[Raja Bell]

Okay.

[Cliff]

Yeah. And then the third one, it probably be a toss up, but

[Raja Bell]

that's cool. No, that's good. Listen, you asked for three. He said he was gonna get you three. Nah. But like, if three is that much of a fall off.

[Cliff]

I know the third one, but I'm a gatekeeper. I'm a gatekeeper because it's going to turn. It's going to turn influency. Tick tock. Gonna get a whole.

[Logan Murdoch]

Roger just hit Cliff. You guys just go to the gatekeeper.

[Cliff]

Yeah, Raj, I got you. I got you. I got you.

[Raja Bell]

Say less.

[Howard Beck]

I didn't know Cliff's offensive rebound percentage at the cheesesteak places. Like how often can you like re up within the same like 24 hour period.

[Cliff]

I'm going be honest with you. I've had a cheesesteak in like three months. I really don't be going there. Yeah.

[Logan Murdoch]

Cliff owns the record of 25%. Wilt has like 21 and

[Howard Beck]

there's a record that Wilt.

[Raja Bell]

The Wilt legends are crazy though. He probably have like he ate four cheesesteaks for breakfast type of.

[Logan Murdoch]

Oh, my God.

[Howard Beck]

How come stat head doesn't have that.

[Logan Murdoch]

Come on, let's go, man. Stop playing. Cliff, what is.

[Howard Beck]

What do the locals actually say? Because it's always been like the Geno's and Pats thing, which is the very touristy version of the cheesesteak war. Like, how do the locals feel about the Genos and Pats thing?

[Cliff]

Oh, nobody goes there. Nobody Pats on the G. Come on, man.

[Howard Beck]

There you go.

[Cliff]

Nobody.

[Logan Murdoch]

Gillian Wallow went right. Didn't they do the thing? That was for clout.

[Cliff]

Nah, if you, if you go to. If you went to Pats and Geno's, anytime past like 1990, there's something wrong with you. Like I tell you what.

[Raja Bell]

NBA All Star Weekend 22. 2.

[Cliff]

Yeah, yeah.

[Raja Bell]

I did a. I did a whole thing. Was I a Genos or Pats? I don't remember, but. Yeah, yeah, I know, but I don't remember which one. They had me And I was making cheese steaks and the NBA was videoing it and all that. Yeah, that was pretty cool.

[Cliff]

You know that?

[Logan Murdoch]

Hey, all the real ones, find the footage. All the real ones, find the footage. Find the footage.

[Howard Beck]

Oh, just this is how unhealthy we were on the. On the beat back in the day. Like, we would go like, if you were in Philly, post game, you finally get out of the arena, like midnight, 12:30, whatever, after filing your last story, and it's like, I'm not ready to go to bed. I'm too wired. I'm hungry. And you're in Philly, you go end up probably at Geno's or Pat's. If you were in Boston, there's all those like, like sausage carts on the walk back from the hotel as you're going through, like, Daniel Hall.

[Cliff]

Yeah, we.

[Howard Beck]

We ate the worst fucking shit at 1 in the morning. Like, beat riding. That took years off me. All the travel, everything else, but also, like, just really bad food choices at the wrong times.

[Logan Murdoch]

And then you get on a plane and you're. And your stomach goes to bumble to bumble to bumble to bumble. And then the hotel has to suffer the consequences. When you get.

[Cliff]

I will say before, like, before, like doordash and Uber eats and all that was popping like passengers was probably a good bet. If you lived in that neighborhood past, like 3am and you was outside, like, the lines would be long because it would be the only joint open. But I mean, now the game, obviously, you know, the game has changed.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah. Cliff, was you outside? Was you outside?

[Cliff]

I was in the house, bro.

[Logan Murdoch]

I didn't. I didn't. I never lived in South Philly. Stop. Get out of here.

[Cliff]

I never live. I live. I never lived in South Philly.

[Logan Murdoch]

Hey, we need to stop lying on real ones, okay? That's been another edition. That has been another edition of real ones. I am Logan Murdoch. That is Cliffy Boo. Not the two Howard brother, Beck, Rajabel, Victoria Balenciaga on the video tap in with us. We will see you guys later in the week. Ah, all the shits must be 21 years and older and present in select states. For Kansas, an affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 and older and present in D.C. kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or 1-800-MY RESET. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org backslash chatincenectic or visit mdgamblinghelp.org In Maryland, Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelpma.org or call 1800-327505-04247 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-HOPE NY or text HOPE NY in New York. For Louisiana, call 1-877-770-7867.