B (5:34)

No victory laps. No victory laps. I would just say, as I texted you yesterday, that, you know, the person in the league who I'd spoken to, who was the reason for my comment at that live show in February, obviously was onto something because what they had told me at the time was that the offense that they had installed last season. So this goes back to way back to last season for sure, in terms of like this, the, the, the simmering issues, that the offense was not exactly catering to ja, and it was not something that JA was particularly thrilled with. And so all the person had said before this thing blew up, after I said it out loud, was keep an eye on. Because I had asked about other possible star trades. Keep an eye on Ja. And you know, that prompted Zach Kleiman, the Grizzlies gm, to then issue a statement that later that week after blew up on social media to say, like, you know, other teams can fantasize all they want about trying to trade for job, but, you know, he's our guy.

A (6:29)

Famous last words.

B (6:31)

Flash forward to now. And that same gm, Zach Kleiman is the one who just had to suspend JA for a game for conduct detrimental to the team. And it's clear that ja's not happy still with the offense and with coach Tomas Isolo. And you know, these situations don't generally just calm down on their own. Logan, we've seen a lot of these over the years. If the star player and the coach are not aligned, the team at some point has to pick sides. Suspending job game would seem to indicate at this point they are leaning toward the coach. They did fire Taylor Jenkins. That could be read a number of different ways last season, but they've, they've now, you know, put their, they've put their, their stock, their faith, their, their, their direction in Tomas is Low's hands. He's a, he's a rookie NBA head coach, but they clearly believe in him and they knew what they were getting when they decided to promote him at the end of last season and then to keep him. Like they could have gone to Jaw if they wanted to still operate in that, that old school way where you like, check in with your franchise players. That's the coach you'd want. Who would you want to play for? Not doing that. And this offense does de emphasize all the, the high pick and roll stuff that JA has thrived in. This is more of a pass read and react kind of offense where ja's not involved as much as he's used to being. JA clearly wants to be the same high usage guy that he's been in his career and is. And doesn't want to adapt to this. So I don't know if this has already reached ahead or if it's going to reach ahead soon, but if you're watching John Morant's body language, if you're listening to things he's saying, if you're listening to how testy he's being with the local media, who, you know, I don't feel like I've been particularly aggressive with him over the course of these.

A (8:26)

Years, but are simply necessarily New York here.

B (8:29)

It ain't. It ain't. And they're, they're asking him just the basic questions right now and even that's getting him set off. So I. Logan, to me this feels like a situation that's reaching a boiling point. I don't know if that's tomorrow, next week, February, next summer, but I just, I do not think this is one we're going to see resolved anytime soon. I don't think Ja Morant, however long his career is, is going to finish it in Memphis. I think that's feels safe to say right now.

A (9:00)

I mean, absolutely. You see them, we forgot to mention that they traded away Desmond Bang, who was a friend of Jaws. They seem to be going into a direction with a lot of young guys that look really good on that roster, right? And Jaren Jackson Jr. And it seems to be two parallel paths here where it's Jaws path out and it's Memphis's path forward. And let me give you some numbers. You know this because you're goddamn genius, Howard. But 20, 21, 22 season, which by and large is John Moran's signature season, put him in the MVP race. The Memphis Grizzlies were 20 and 5 without him. The 22, 23 season, the Grizzlies were 11 and 10 without him. The 24, 25 season, they're 18 and 14 without John Moran. The front office sees that and they see all of the antics and they see all of the off court stuff and they see all of the things that make them say, huh, do we need him as much as we think we do? And then John Morant, on the other hand, who has been, I would say Z. Bo's quite there at the top of, like, people that Memphians love, like.

B (10:18)

Conley, Zachary, Mike Conley, Tony.

A (10:20)

Tony Allen.

B (10:21)

Yeah, Tony Allen. All those guys.

A (10:22)

Yeah, all of those guys are probably right there at the top. John Morant also has a real, real big spot in the hearts of Memphians, right? Despite everything that has happened, you go there, they love John Morant. There's John Morant jerseys. He's in the community. They. Despite the fact of what happened or may or not have happened at his home a few years ago, he still has a lot of love in Memphis, right? And he sees, yo, man, I am a pillar of this community and organization. I put it on the map. I on. And I got us out of the. You know what's interesting? I deal with this a lot in the Bay Area, right? On the music scene. Close your ears if you don't want to hear this, Howard, because I know you might not understand, but Cliff and Victoria might understand this, right? For a long time, the Bay Area has been defined by hyphae in the hyphae era. And the local artists now are trying to get out of that and create their own sound and say, hey, man, I want to be able to show that the Bay has a lot of different types, types of sounds and different things to say. We're trying to. Hyphen was cool, but we're trying to get out of that. I feel like Ja Morant is a symbol of getting out of the grit and grind era of Memphis sports, right? Where that was great, but this is a whole different type of style of play, and I am the face of it. I'm dunking on fools. I'm going up and down. I'm showing a different side of Memphis and how we roll, right? Even though I'm not front here, I am a native son, an adopted native son, and this is how we roll. So he sees that, and there's going to eventually be a clash, right? And you kind. And you saw the beginnings of that, and it's really unfortunate that it's gone to this point because it seemed like such a nice marriage right between these guys. I remember when he first came on the scene, and this was in the shadow of the backdrop of player empowerment movement. Right towards the end, right where we have John Morant, we have Luka Doncic and somebody we're going to talk about a little later, Zion Williamson, where it's like, oh, man, if this thing works, these guys can be pillars in these organizations for the entirety of their careers. And I think it's just sad Right. When you see it come to this, because a guy of Ja Morant superstar status and who he is in the Memphis community, it's sad that it's gone like this. But you could see both sides, Howard, of why this is probably going to end at some point because Memphis, no matter what they say, and this is something that we said last year or last season when this was going down, when their GM came out and said, you could say what you want to say about the social media post. We're not trading Ja. You say somebody's words and then you see their actions. Memphis Grizzlies actions from the time that you reported that to even a little bit before show that they were a little tired of the Ja Moran experience. We're going to say the right things, but we're going to do the other things. And Ja seeing that and it pisses him off. And this is where we are right now, this impasse. But it really looks like Memphis is working as if they are working for a future without Jon in the next few seasons.

B (13:42)

They didn't extend him this summer. Logan, they extended Jaren Jackson Jr.

A (13:46)

Which I thought was kind of like, I, I wouldn't know. They gave him a max. I'm like, oh, but anyway, I know.

B (13:52)

I'm a little uncomfortable with it, but, but still, like he's, you know, this is just the way that works in the NBA. You know, your, your best players, even if you think they're not a Max guy, you got to kind of max them and, and, you know, show them the loyalty and the love. But like, they signed JJJ to a MAX extension. They did not sign Jah to an extension. And then Zach Kleiman on media day reiterated some, some of the kind of thoughts that I think he had said at the end of last season, which was basically like, you know, we gotta, you know, get this thing back on track and like this is a big year for Ja and all these things. Like, there was very clearly they're putting a lot of the onus on Jaw to, to show them. And what Jaw has shown them so far is being disengaged, sulking on the court, getting into a, you know, some, some sort of. Of post game back and forth with the coach in which the coach kind of called him out and then, you know, he says what he says to the media, he gets suspended, he comes back. And I don't. Like there were moments last night where I thought he was a little bit more engaged, but like there were some, some just ridiculous defensive turns by him where he was just completely disengaged and you know, the usual assortment of bad threes that he just cannot make and he just doesn't like the, the best of John. The reason he is so popular in Memphis in part was so. He was just so electrifying. Like, remember like the, like the chase down block from a few years ago. Like there's, you know, obviously all the attacking of the basket now. It just feels like he's driving into traffic and just getting stuffed and trying to like pull off impossible shots. I don't know if he's lost a step, if it's just, you know, the beating that he takes. He's missed a ton of games due to injury. You thr, by the way, that's a big part of this too and why Memphis is, I think wise and right not to fully commit to him with an extension. Josh played in 313 out of a possible 481 games so far in his career. He's played in 65% of all games since he came to the league the last three seasons. 65 out of 172. That's 38%. That's brutal. He's been suspended for 34 games total eight games in spring of 2023 with the first gun incident. Another 25 games later to start the next season because of the second gun incident. And then the one suspension a couple days ago. Like he's got two more years on his deal after this season at 42 and 45 million. I don't even know. I started to do the, the exercise we can get into if you want. I started to get to look at this like if you were on to trade him, how many teams even would want or need John Moran at this point?

A (16:38)

At least one.

B (16:40)

You only need one. Like that's, that's the whole. That's the, that's the great NBA cliche. It only takes one, right? Whether that's giving somebody an outlandish contract, whether it's trading for a troubled player, it only takes one, right? But I had an exchange with a coach in the league this morning. We were texting about John and he says, what do you think happens? And I said, it feels to me like they hit a breaking point, it's time for a trade. And he says if they trade him, they're all getting fired. To which I said, if they keep him and they stay on the course they're on, they're all getting fired anyway because this is a team going seemingly nowhere at the moment. Like they don't. They you know, they took a step back intentionally by trading Desmond Bane, and they've got some good young players. This team drafts really well, but this is not a contender. This is not a high playoff team. This is just a team that's trying to find its way. And if they keep losing, they're all going to get fired anyway. So, you know, I get that if they trade them, they get fired because of the popularity and the need to put butts in seats, but look around the league. There are 14 teams I eliminated right off the top who just don't need a point guard. And then there's a group of unlikely teams, like Chicago's got Josh Giddy running the offense. Do they really want John Morant and the baggage that comes with him? Milwaukee just needs talent, period. But between having Giannis running the offense and their cap situation, I don't think they're likely. Orlando cap issues and fit issues. Boston cap issues and fit issues. And he wouldn't make sense next to Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum when Tatum's back. Rockets need a point guard, but again, cap issues, fit issues. Minnesota cap issues and fit issues. So I like. Those are the unlikely teams. There's 14 others that already have a point guard, so at least nine teams, maybe, maybe that would trade for Ja. You want to hear them? All right, let's go.

A (18:22)

They better be, they better be the one that we're both thinking about. You can save that one for last.

B (18:26)

Oh, they're on the list. They're definitely on the list. All right, Miami. Miami's just always looking for talent. They think they can rehab anybody, right? They can. They can fix anybody. I could see Miami. Toronto doesn't feel right given the, the who they've got right now, but Toronto's another team is just like. They're just like throwing stuff at the wall and trying to figure out what sticks, and they don't really have a strong direction. I don't think. I don't think they're likely, but I'll put them on the list. Washington and Brooklyn and Utah, three tanking teams that are just trying to find a direction. I think they'd all rather rebuild young and find somebody in the draft to build around, then go get a mid, mid career veteran who was once a top 10 point guard and probably isn't anymore. So I don't, I don't think they're likely, but you gotta put the, the, the, the tanking teams in there. Portland and Phoenix, teams that have just like, recently taken massive steps backwards and are trying to figure it out, but like John next to book, eh, John Portland. I think they'd rather just figure out if Scoot Henderson can run this thing. But like, you have to put them in. In the discussion. And then there's these two. One of which was the one you're alluding to, I'm sure. Sacramento and New Orleans. You were thinking Kings, right?

A (19:37)

I was thinking Kings. I don't think the Kings will do anything. I don't think the New Orleans Pelicans would do it though, because they already have a problem of their own.

B (19:43)

Like, I get they already got Zion.

A (19:46)

But also they fucking traded away their first round pick, right? Two phone. Dumars is like, could literally do anything.

B (19:54)

That's my man. Hard on Joe.

A (19:56)

I love Joe.

B (19:57)

It's. It's hard to see what's happened in New Orleans because Dumars is a great dude and. And I've known him a long time. But like Pelicans. Yeah.

A (20:06)

You know what's crazy? We'll talk about the Pelicans later in the show. But like, we try to give. There's people that try to give Joe Dumars the benefit of the doubt and then the first move he makes is like, literally could sink the franchise.

B (20:16)

It's hard, man. It's.

A (20:17)

It's hard.

B (20:19)

So the Pelicans, it's really unlikely, right? Because Zion is enough of his own mess and they've got their own challenges. And those guys, of course, drafted back to back. You know, both of them were supposed to be new faces of the league and all this stuff, and it's just been a total disappointment for both. So, no, the Pelicans, it's probably too much to ask them to take this on. They were just another team that like, have need at the position, have a need to just do something. But yeah, it's the Kings more than any of these teams I've listed, right? Like, no clear direction.

A (20:50)

Something. It's just a marriage. I don't know if it's made in. It's definitely not made in heaven, but maybe marriage made in purgatory.

B (20:56)

But here's that. Here's the thing, though, Logan. Like, I just listed like the nine teams that I think were at least possible, right? But even as I'm saying that I'm caveating the hell out of most of them, right? Like, I don't think Toronto, Washington, Brooklyn, Portland, Phoenix, Utah, I don't think those are all teams. They're possible but not likely. I think it's more like it's. And Pelicans are likely too. It really comes down to, like, the Kings, who will try anything and are just desperate to do anything and have big names. They're just. They're always starstruck. They'll do anything. They're like the Knicks were in the early 2000s, and then there's Miami.

A (21:27)

Russell Westbrook, and I don't know why they got him. I don't know why. I have no idea why.

B (21:32)

By the way, Russell Westbrook video tribute in Denver last night. Stop it, please. Like, I, I know the league doesn't like making new rules. Can we just have a rule that if you, you need at least two years with a franchise to get a tribute video or if you were part of like, a championship team in your one year, fine, make an exception to the one year rule. Nobody should get a tribute video with one season. Especially after that season when they said, you know what? That was okay, but we're moving in another direction now.

A (21:58)

I still don't know.

B (21:59)

You give him a tribute video.

A (22:00)

What are we doing? I still don't know why he declined that player option, bro. I still don't understand. But let's put it back to the Kings, though. The Kings will literally do anything to be relevant. And by the Kings, I mean Vivek Rana Dive will literally do anything to get into a news cycle.

B (22:15)

Yeah. And, and, and Ja feels like a very King's move. I could see that one. And, and the only reason I could see Miami is, yeah, they moved on from, from Jimmy Butler. They're in this kind of, you know, mid. You know, mid tier zone where, like, they're really good with Bam Tyler Hero will come back like, they've got some good pieces, but they don't have that engine right now. And Ja could potentially be that. And, and again, the Heat under Riley think they, they can fix anybody. They, you know, we'll. We'll be the team that. That gets this guy, that gets the best out of him. And to their credit, like, Jimmy Butler had a bit of a checkered reputation. Not the same, but he had his own issues coming in. And they had a pretty nice run with them.

A (22:54)

And Terry Rozier, Dion Waiters, they try. Hey, Dion Whiters had a DL Waiters game against Golden State. Like Hassan Whiteside, Hasan Whiteside, like, yo, man, you know, you over here trying to just say Diana Ross, say something to Supremes too. Okay? Give. Give some of the, Give some album cuts as well. Please come on back.

B (23:18)

So I, I just. If the Grizzlies decide it's time to move on, having already parted with Desmond Bain having already decided to take a step backward to try to go forward. And if it looks like there's a breaking point here, I don't know, I don't know where the out is exactly. And I don't know how much you're getting back. That's the other thing. Even if you can find a landing spot for John a trade, I just don't know how much you're getting back because his value is so degraded from where it was a couple of years ago when he was a rising star in this league. He's, he's not, you know, he'll sell tickets. I don't know how many games he's winning.

A (23:55)

You. What other thing is this though, right? Like wherever he goes is want to go, he's going to want to get paid. And I think in this new hard cap, it's going to be harder for these reclamation projects or to justify these reclamation projects. If you're trying. You either got to go all in with your max players or you have to draft well and hope that they turn into a contender. It's just really, really hard in this new ecosystem to justify either that or John, you're going to start seeing the John Morantz who do command these kind of salaries but don't have this type of output, have to take a significant pay cut if it doesn't work out right? Like that's, that's really what it is going to be. And no matter, no matter where he goes, he's going to either have to take a pay cut or the team's going to have to just wallow with, just be like, hey, I guess we're paying you. And the Sacramento Kings are willing to do both. They're willing to sacrifice the salary and the picks just to be relevant. I, yo, I think he's going to sack. I think I just talked myself with him going to sack.

B (24:51)

It feels inevitable, doesn't it, right?

A (24:53)

It just does, man. Like anytime you have a battered star or a star that needs a, that needs, has a big contract that you need to take on and you don't know where he's going to be sacks probably your, your, your offset.

B (25:06)

They're, they're, they're, I'm telling you, they're the knicks of the 2000s. They're just, they're repository for everybody else's bad contracts.

A (25:12)

They're the Raiders. Since I, since I was 8 years old. You know, every, every league needs at.

B (25:19)

Least one franchise that's just willing to take on anybody and be like the, the, the salary Dispensary.

A (25:23)

You know, it's funny, bro. Like, and we haven't shitted on the Kings in a while. But let's just do it really quickly before we get to Cliff. Everybody thought that. And I was inside when this happened. Everybody thought when the Maloof brothers sold the team, this was a new lease on life. This was going to be a whole different regime. They're going to get a downtown arena. This is going to be great. This is going to be awesome. And this is the same old Kings with a better arena. By the way, as a caveat, has the best arena in Northern California. Just saying. I've said this. Great cookies there. Great cookies.

B (26:02)

But call from Raymond Ritter at any minute now.

A (26:04)

It's fine. He'll be all right. I've told that to his face. And he just, you know, it wasn't, it was. It was crazy because our guy just loves to just promote everything. And when you say something bad, it's like, let me say something positive. So anyways, shout out to. Shout out to Golden 1 Arena. I wish your team actually matched the energy of your arena. But how long do you think. Do you think that this. Okay, let's. I'm gonna just throw this before we get to Cliff. Prediction time from Howard Beck. Do you. And I'm. You might get aggregated for this. So just, you know, use your words wisely. Do you think this. This impasse because you spoke about the Kings, I could see them totally like doing a deadline deal and just like talking themselves into this. Does job get. Does this trade happen at the trade deadline or does it push to the. The. To the summer, do you think?

B (26:58)

Ordinarily, I would say because in season trades are. Are hard in season trades with superstars on max deals. And again I use a superstar term loosely in this case. Stars on max deals. Is hard to trade in season especially. It's always easier in the summer when there's cap room to work with and you can do multi team trades and it. It's just easier in June, July. But it. Logan, it just feels like this thing is. Is too tense. I don't see how this resolves. I don't like Jaw's demeanor last night in the game and especially in the locker room in the press, you know, gaggle afterward. He just seems like a guy who's had it with everything and everybody. And I given his demeanor and just the way we've seen him operate over the last few years, I don't see how that just ends happily. How this like they just settle into oh they'll start winning some games and everything will be fine. Like, I, I don't see it. I'm looking at their upcoming schedule. They got the Rockets at home, tough.

A (27:57)

Home stand, very tough home stand.

B (27:59)

Then Dallas, who's struggling, but then Oklahoma and then road trip out here in New York, at Boston, at Cleveland, at San Antonio. Like, they're just. This thing's going to get worse probably before it gets better in terms of the win loss record. And that's only going to exacerbate everything and it's going to make him that much more pissed off that he doesn't have the offense that he wants. So, yeah, I'm. I'm gonna say he gets dealt by the trade deadline. Like, it feels that way. That's not so much a prediction as just like a gut instinct. Like, I just don't. This feels untenable. This feels like it's reaching or fast approaching a breaking point. And so this is a rare case where I think it's more likely that he gets traded by the deadline than waiting for the off season.

A (28:38)

Okay, so counterpoint to what you were saying earlier about. And I don't like, I believe your sources when they tell you and you could make an argument that city of Memphis could revolt against a John Moran trade. But just plain devil's advocate here, if they do that and they lose and they just in a free fall right now. Like, I don't. I think you could sell this trade to your community, bro. I think you could totally do it and be like, hey, we're. This is the, this is the stats from where. When jaws out of the lineup versus in the lineup. And we are going to build a contender and a winner. That is our mission. I think you can buy yourself times for that. Like, they're. I think this, this, this g. This front office has proven that. That they can build a suitable team and find diamonds in the rough.

B (29:21)

It just depends on what you get back too. Right. Like, a jaw trade is, you know, the, the, the sting of it for the fans is mitigated by what you get back. If it's a bunch of draft picks, they could be like, well, yay, I guess. But I'm not excited about draft picks until they become somebody, so that's hard. And if it's, you know, you think about like, you know, potential kings deals, like, I don't think Zach Levine is, is sating the Grizzlies fans. I don't, I don't think a Sabonis Jaren Jackson Jr. Front court makes much sense. Especially when you've got, you know, Ed and all these guys, if they ever get healthy. So it's like, you know, I don't know, even like you extract, you know, prized asset Keegan Murray, who they decided to extend at a massive number this summer. Like, I just don't like, those things are not going to make Grizzlies fans happy. So it.

A (30:07)

But here's the thing. That's the new NBA, though, Howard. That's the new NBA, bro. You can't trade for other stars or other high contracts. I mean, you kind of have to, but it got to be an expiring. You have to build towards the future. If you're going to trade a guy like John Moran.

B (30:18)

I just.

A (30:19)

You start with the names of the NBA.

B (30:21)

Yeah, but you start with the names that just throughout. Because of the fact you do have to match salaries, right? So first you got to figure that out. And it's not like the Kings have, like, some hot young prospect you can try to pry loose, right? It's. It's gonna be difficult. But I also feel like this thing is untenable. And as I say, there. There's no good path here. You keep him. I don't think things are going to go real well and everybody's gonna get fired anyway. You trade him. You know, as the coach who was texting with me this morning said, they're gonna get fired. But, like, if you do it, you're doing it with the ownership's blessing, right? You're not trading him without their blessing in the first place. And then you're just hoping for the best.

A (30:58)

Hey, man, I have no pity for somebody that gets fired in the NBA. Check's still clearing. You get to go to the beach. So with that note, let's take a quick break, and we're going to get to Cliff, who's mad at me, and then talk underachieving teams. And we are back talking underachieving teams and mailbaging a few. Cliff, what's going on, buddy? How we doing right now? You cold? It's Brick. What's going on? You dying?

D (31:24)

Hey, look, we got the battle of Eastern Conference Titans tonight. Howard Beck wasn't as excited as I am as the Sixers face off against the Chicago Bulls. Jarrett McCain's return is likely tonight as well. Howard, how are we feeling about that matchup real quick?

B (31:37)

I'm going to be watching election returns tonight. You guys read this? Election Day.

D (31:40)

It is go vote. If you haven't voted, go vote.

A (31:44)

We used to be a proper league in the NBA. With all its fucking jargon, talking about, oh, man, you know, blm, we're about people's rights. You know, we're going to take voting day off. All right?

B (31:56)

I texted. I texted this to Logan yesterday. You guys realized the last time the NBA had games, we have six games tonight. The last time the NBA had games on election night was in 2021. Because in the wake of Black Lives Matter and everything else that went on in 2020, 21, and the social justice coalition that the league formed, they said, we're going to take election day off and focus on our civic duty and we'll promote elections. We use arenas for elections as election, as polling sites and all this. No games on election day in 2022, 23, or 24, but we have games tonight. I did reach out to the league because I was curious. Did you abandon this policy? No. If anybody's wondering, the NBA remains firmly committed to elections and voting and democracy. Apparently, the policy now is they've backed off a little. So they're not going to play games on election day during years of midterms or presidential elections. But if it's not midterms or presidential elections, they're going to do what they're doing today, which is have games.

A (32:56)

Put on that boat shirt. Put on that vote. Pregame warmup.

B (33:00)

The. I got one of those in the drawer, though. That's a nice workout shirt. But the league prefers, they're saying now to focus on the bigger elections. And it's like. Like, listen, they have new TV partners. NBC/ Peacock has games tonight. So I'm sure that played a role in this. Also, every time you take a day off, like where you have a game of zero or a day of zero games, that means somewhere else you gotta make up for it with back to backs. And teams hate back to backs. So anyway, the league is still firmly pro democracy, I am told reliably by league sources.

D (33:36)

Fist up, brother.

A (33:37)

Fist up, my brother. Keep your third eye open.

B (33:41)

Yeah, we only need democracy in midterm and presidential years. The rest of those elections are just my. Everybody go out and vote. By the way, before you watch the games tonight.

D (33:51)

Yeah, go on, vote. Go on vote. Anyways, let's get back to back to basketball here. You didn't even get. Actually, you didn't give me a little take on the Sixers. Bulls, Yeah. I need to hear some Howard something.

B (34:04)

No, listen, like, the Bulls have surprised me. The Sixers have not. Because as you guys know, I was on Sixers might actually be okay island all summer long. And through the preseason, and you guys mocked me roundly, and everybody might. It's fine.

A (34:18)

Cliff was with you, though. It was with you.

B (34:21)

Cliff's the Sixer fan.

A (34:22)

He wasn't even with it.

B (34:23)

He was. He's like, man, don't. Don't get my hopes up just to, like, to have them fucking crushed again.

D (34:27)

Hey, look, man, I'm back on the wagon. I'm back on the wagon, dude.

B (34:30)

Oh, I got to tell you. So I was at. I went to net Sixers on Sunday here in Brooklyn, and I'll dunk. I left before the game. You know my. You know my routine. I go in, I make the rounds.

A (34:45)

Shout out, Sam Amic.

B (34:47)

I had to go talk to people. So I met a Sixer fan who's a filmmaker. I don't know if he'd want me to name drop, so I'll leave him out. But, like, he had a T shirt. There's somebody in Philly who makes these. Cliff, you may be aware of these. So it's a T shirt that is basically. It's in Sixers colors and everything else. And it's a close up of a knee. Like, naming all the tendons in the knee.

D (35:05)

I've seen that. Yeah, No, I definitely seen that before. Yeah. That's crazy.

B (35:08)

Sixer fans are warped, man. Like, you guys are scarred, Deeply scarred.

A (35:14)

I know that. Like, when. When the Sixers are doing good, when you guys actually bring up the Sixers in November. So. Shout out to Philly special. Shout out.

B (35:22)

Listen, and Bean's coming along. He's looking better each. Each game. Maxine and Edgecomb look awesome. Jared McCain, I think. Is McCain making his debut tonight?

D (35:30)

He's making his debut tonight, so everything's looking up. Yeah. Tim Bontez reported the other night that McCain is making his debut tonight versus.

B (35:36)

Sixers top four in the East. Destiny.

A (35:38)

Seven babies.

D (35:39)

Here we go.

A (35:39)

Six. Seven.

D (35:43)

That should have been BJ's number six. Seven. Anyways, let's get to. Let's get to the first issue at hand here when it comes to teams that are underachieving. Besides the Memphis Grizzlies, we have Zion and the Pelicans. However, Howard already noted that Zion really isn't the issue over there. However, his. He is on track for his lowest field goal percentage in his career by a lot, at 48%. But the Pelicans are also just kind of not good at all. Joe Dumars has set them back a little bit this offseason. They are winless still. They have the worst point differential in the NBA. They have the worst net rating in the NBA. They don't have their pick next season. I mean, New Orleans, what do we got? What do we know?

A (36:21)

I have a counter question to that really quickly, just to add on that. For Howard, just to make his fucking head just explode on this tv. Who would you rather trade for if you had to pick? Zion or Ja.

B (36:37)

Oh, my God. It's almost like, who do you want to place your. Your, your fate in the hands of, like, who? Man, I don't know. I, I don't have a ready answer for that. I could talk myself back.

D (36:54)

I'll say this. Zion has a season that he played 70 games in. There is. There is that John Moran has only played 6, 7 games in the season at most.

B (37:02)

I don't trust either one, and I don't trust either one to stay healthy.

D (37:05)

Six, six, seven, six, seven.

B (37:07)

Okay, stop it, stop it. Youngins, with your six sevens.

A (37:12)

I've had enough.

B (37:14)

That, that, that thing has worn itself out so quickly, by the way. Like, as soon as people of my fucking generation are like, making jokes about it or doing it to torture their kids, then it's already over. It's over. Move on to something else. Four or five.

A (37:27)

So what's your pick? Who would you pick?

B (37:30)

Oh, I, I wouldn't. I would opt out. I would. I would quit and join a monastery.

A (37:35)

I think I would pick. I would pick. I think I would pick, weirdly enough. I think I would pick Zion still.

B (37:40)

Really? Because I would lean jaw then the reason I would lean jaw. Yeah, I would lean jaw just because of. Of playmaking. And I know you. There's a point Zion in there somewhere. And then there's been moments where it's like you could do a lot with the ball in his hands, but I just. Playmaking and, and, and just the initiation of your offense is so important these days. And Jaw is not a modern point guard. He doesn't shoot threes well. But I think. I don't know. You know what? No, actually, forget it. I don't want a point guard who can't shoot threes and doesn't defend. Fine, I'll take Zion.

A (38:11)

The reason why I'm taking Zion is because, like, you know, no matter. Like, it's, it's. You're, you're, you're getting shitter, right? Like, just in terms of all the Baggins and everything that will be expected. But you could play Zion in a pick and roll. There's a lot more things you can do with them. But the most important thing is his contract. You can get up off him at any point, right? Like, if you're taking on Ja, you have to probably commit to some sort of extension. Like, that's probably what you're buying into.

B (38:38)

They're on the same deal, by the way. Like, their numbers are almost identical. They're both got this year, plus two more left at similar numbers. But I agree, Logan, I think that if you're the next team to get Zion and he doesn't work out, you might still be able to move him one more time. Jaws, next stop. If it goes badly, it's going to be really hard. But you're. Look, you're taking your life in your hands at this point with either one.

A (39:02)

Hey, Utah, Utah, go get Zion, man. Get him on some NBA youngboy stuff. Just put him in. Put him in a mansion, you know, just. Just tell. Just tell him to chill out, rehabilitate everything. He'll be. He'll average, he'll be all right and still win 35 games and take. Will still be on. But, you know, like this, Utah, right there. Figure it out. We didn't talk anything about the Pelicans, by the way, which is probably a good thing, because I watched them the other night, and.

B (39:33)

I don't even think there's anything really to say.

A (39:34)

Right.

B (39:34)

Like, there are certain teams where it's like, you analyze, like, all right, this is going wrong, that's going wrong, or this guy's been hurt like the Pelicans. It's just. It's everything. It's everything. It's terrible.

A (39:43)

It's. Even the arena.

B (39:46)

Is. You're blaming this on Smoothie King now. I like Smoothie King.

A (39:51)

Yeah. Yeah. You can enjoy Smoothie King Smoothies. Not. You don't have to be in Louisiana to enjoy Smoothie King smoothies. I was in. In Georgia, had a great Smoothie King smoothie. You know what I mean?

B (40:01)

There's one on the Riverwalk, way, way back in the day in San Antonio. I don't know if it's still there. I think that was my first Smoothie King.

A (40:07)

Yeah, it's solid.

B (40:08)

You always remember your first Smoothie King.

A (40:12)

Anyways, next question. Man. Like, sorry, let's not. Let's not.

B (40:15)

We're just off the rails. I'm sorry.

D (40:17)

Yeah, let's get to Howard's backyard in the New York Knicks. Now, the Knicks have started the season four and three. They're currently six in the Eastern Conference right now, 11th in that rating. You know, they did play the Bulls back or not back to back, but they played them two Times last week they won one split and they have won their last two games. However, Logan views the Knicks as a disappointment so far. Howard, do you view it the same?

B (40:42)

The Knicks are 4 and 3. Do you know what they were through seven games last season without looking it up?

A (40:47)

4 and 3, 3 and 4.

B (40:50)

This is an improvement. This is an improvement. Oh, I mean, if they're a disappointment, it's because they did come a little slow out of the gates and everybody thought that they and the Cavs were the two top teams in the, in the East. They did give the Bulls their first loss, whatever that's worth, man. It's a. Mike Brown's installed a brand new offense. That's going to take time. I think there are some good signs, including the fact that Mikhail Bridges is doing a lot more initiating. So they are mixing things up a little, which I think was kind of the point of the exercise. But I think they're all just kind of adjusting. Brown's still figuring out his rotations. I, I, I don't, I don't feel like the Knicks are, are, are if they're underwhelming, it's not by a lot of.

A (41:30)

Yeah. And I think that like largely their struggles are a bit out of Mike Brown's control. At least some of it are. Right. Like Carl Towns who had a great game last night. It was ball and I'll be it against the Wizards. But like seems asterisks. Okay. I'm just saying it seemed like he got, he got a swagger. Right. It's like, you know, me and Cliff played football. It's like we always used to call it the highlight tape game. When you play against a trash team and you're just trying to get your highlights up to get recruited, that's more of like what this game was for him. But like the, the defense is about the same as it was last year. Right. And that's a personnel thing. Right. Like when you have, when your best players don't play defense, it's hard to, it's similar to his, to his, to Mike Brown's problem in Sacramento. Like he just did not have the personnel to play the type of defense that you want. The offensive, they're like 17th in offense. Their bench is pretty, isn't great right now. They got a lot of stuff to figure out, but they're playing everybody.

B (42:31)

Also, like Josh Hart has like nerve problems in his hand or his wrist. Mitchell Robinson's only played two games because he's Mitchell Robinson and he never plays. And the Knicks keep like obfuscating his injuries constantly left and right, despite the fact that we are now in an era where there are gambling scandals and the league is trying to get everybody to be more upfront and transparent with their injury reporting. And the Knicks are still doing Knicks things. Go figure.

A (42:56)

Beck was trying to get that off because Beck texted me that, and I was like, I know he's gonna work this way into the pot. I know.

B (43:01)

I mean, you put the Knicks on the. On the agenda. I didn't.

A (43:04)

Okay. I just.

B (43:05)

I just said we should probably address the fact that the Knicks have been like, to the point where the New York Post had, like, I think a back page or multiple back pages about, like, the fact that the Knicks have been really vague about Mitchell Robinson's health this whole.

A (43:18)

Have you got the New York Post on your ass? This is. Yeah. Shout out to homie, though. Stefan Bondi. He's tight. He was cool.

B (43:26)

Yes.

A (43:26)

He was nice at summer league. Anyway, Cliff, that's all we got. That's all we got. Sorry, I thought we had more. That's all we got.

D (43:33)

Let's get down to Atlanta High, Atlanta, home of big VV rest in peace follies. Anyways, it's the Atlanta Hawks 3 and 4 on the season. Looks like they lost Trey Young for about a month here. They had a pretty good offseason. Everybody was hyping around the Hawks, saying, top four, top five. And he's currently they're playing team. Send that ninth in the Eastern Conference right now. Howard, how's Atlanta's outlook currently as the team will be out the star Trey Young for a little bit of period of time? What's the outlook for the Hawks? What should they do? How are the young guys playing? How do you think the. This will. This will pan out for the Hawks?

B (44:10)

I'm worried about them. Like, Dyson Daniels is a great player, but I don't want him running my offense. And there were times, I think it was last night's game where I'm watching and like, there was just a way too much Dyson Daniels dribbling the ball. They need Trey Young and they're going to be without him for. For about a month here. I don't know where else. Like, they have guys who can initiate the offense, right? There are guys who can handle the ball. You know, Daniels, Jalen Johnson, Rizachet a little bit like. But they need a point guard. They really do. And they did have a great off season picking up Nikhil Alexander, Walker and Porzingis. And I. I like the assortment of players I think they needed some time to kind of, kind of resettle their identity after adding these guys and Jalen Johnson coming back from injury. Like there was just an adjustment that was going to have to happen anyway and now they lose Trey. And this was a big year for Trey Young. He's a free agent next summer and a big year for the Hawks trying to figure out it. You know, as with the Grizzlies and Jaw like different situations but like these are teams where you've got a clear franchise star who you've had mixed results with and you're trying to get some clarity and now you're without Trey for a month and there are. Yeah, they were struggling anyway. I don't, I haven't looked at the schedule for them right off the bat here, but I don't think it's going to go well without him for the next month. And that puts a lot of pressure then on him to try to pull this out when he gets back. I just, I, I don't, I don't like the way this is looking for them right now.

A (45:37)

Yeah, I mean similar to Memphis, it seems like a two track plan right now for Atlanta, Right. Especially when they got that Pelicans pick which is, could be the number one pick in the draft, dude, right. So say that becomes the number one pick in the draft and also Trey has a player option next year, $48 million. So like if he, there's a world where he picks that up, right. And maybe he does get traded, maybe he does get traded because of that as an expiring at some point. But like his time in Atlanta may not be over. That being said, this, as you said, this was a season where the Hawks, they have a new front office who's doing, who did had a really good offense. I mean, excuse me, a good off season. Wow. But it seemed like when they were making these deals, like, okay, we're going to go all in on Trey for one last year and then we'll see what happens. Right. Because Porzingis is also on an expiring as well. Right. And so it's not the worst thing if they don't have a good season this year. Right. They could be the Pelicans, you know, have a bad year and then shit. Not work out and not have any picks and not have any means to build. This seemed like, hey, we're going to put all our chips in on Trey one last time. He's been in trade rumors all these last few years. We'll see what happens if it doesn't work out, it's all fair. I think ever since that trade in draft night, that's kind of been the attitude. And so I think for this season it will be underwhelming, but I don't think it's the worst thing in the world for it to be underwhelming. If I'm an Atlanta Hawks fan, I think they'll be fine.

B (47:13)

I think I agree because of the fact that they've got some just really good young players. And I think like this is, it's not like this is an all or nothing season for them. But I think to the extent that you want to get clarity about whether this is the right set of players around Trey or whether Trey is the right hub for that set of players, like that part of it I think is really important because I they're at an. They're at a decision point where is, you know, are we continuing for the next, you know, four to five years with Trae Young on another contract or do we think it's time to move in another direction? And I think you want as many games as possible with this group as as constructed as reconstructed to figure that out.

A (47:51)

Sure. Hey, Atlanta's cool though. Cliff, when you going back to Atlanta, bro? You got the going on you back on Peach street soon. One of the million and a half Peach street streets.

D (48:01)

I will not be back in Atlanta anytime, anytime soon. Anytime soon.

A (48:06)

You know who will shout out VV or RP Follies.

D (48:08)

RP Follies. Anyways, let's get to this final disappointing team here, the Dallas Mavericks. They have started the season out 2 and 5. Cooper flag averaging 13 and 6. Obviously Logan has noted he's played a lot of point guard, but d' Angelo Russell's played a lot more point guard as well for the Dallas Mavericks. They're still struggling. They don't have Kyrie Irving. Anthony Davis looks like he's going to be missing a little bit of time here. I'm not sure when his return will likely be. However, the schedule is favorable in the next couple games. I believe they do have the Wizards coming up. I believe they do have a game versus the Pelicans, who are only the other worst team in the Western Conference to them. So Dallas early on struggles. Coop struggling a little bit. Anthony Davis has been hit with the injury bug right now. Kyrie, there's no timetable on his return right now. Deangel Russell's running their point guard position, which is always a fun thing to watch. Logan, what's up with the Mavs, man? What are we doing here with the Dallas Mavericks.

A (49:00)

I mean, we talk about Cooper Flag and the point guard situation, but you brought up somebody that really needs a little bit more blame for this season, and that is Anthony Davis, who came into camp little overweight, little out of shape, and out of no. Seemingly out of nowhere, ha, ha, ha. Got injured. Right? So this was going. If. If they were going to manage the front office expectations and do what the front office. Nico thought they were going to do. Anthony Davis, the crown jewel of the Luka Donches trade for the Dallas Mavericks. By. By the way, Nico Harrison said, oh, we are going to put our chips behind Anthony Davis because we want more defense. You would think that Anthony Davis would be a little bit more rejuvenated and ball out and cover a lot of the holes that the Mavericks seemingly have. That has not happened. And that is very disappointing. And I don't know where Anthony Davis kind of goes from this. He's definitely at an impasse in his career right now. He's 32 years old, which is like Howard's age for big men. And that. That is tough. And then you add the fact that, you know Cooper Flag is struggling and you have Klay Thompson, who a lot of people had expectations on Klay being really good for this team. And also he committed to the Mavericks. That was a total different iteration of what the current Mavericks are. But I think the Mavericks are highlighting a lot of his struggles that he had in his later years at Golden State that I think a lot of the league just kind of turned a blind eye to when he got that contract. And it's. It's just not good. So what you should do if you're going to go all in on Cooper Flag, go in all in on Cooper Flag like it's. It's November, but in a perfect world, he'd be playing point guard, they'd be trash, and they'd be trying to get another pick. But because Nico Harrison and it's. Has just put together this weird roster of just like these vets that want to compete for a title and paired them with all these young guys, it's just a weird roster. They should just have a plan, pick a direction. And that's. It's. It's not. I don't think it's anybody on the. On the. That's playing on the team's fault. It's right there on the front office putting together a hodgepodge of guys and saying, go win a championship and go be a contender because no one thought that they were going to Be a contender other than any people in the business or people in the front office, certainly. Oh, no, I'll take that. And a few ringer people.

B (51:40)

No. Oh, yeah. I was going to say a few people on a certain network who were way out over their skis on this one and proclaiming them a contender, but.

A (51:50)

There'S no way that they were a contender. If you look at that roster and like, Kyrie being out and they're going to give Cooper flag the responsibility of the offense, so. And then Anthony Davis comes out, out of shape, there was no way they were going to be a contender.

B (52:02)

No Kyrie, no established point guard, unless you want to count d' Angelo Russell, who they're still bringing off the bench because they don't actually trust him enough to make him the starting point guard, apparently. Derek Lively's played only three games. Daniel Gafford's played only one game. Clay is old. Anthony Davis is banged up. Like, what does anybody expect from this team? I don't, I, like, I don't even consider them a disappointment. I consider them exactly what I expected them to be or a little worse off because of the injuries, because I didn't, you know, predict all those guys were going to miss all those games. But it's a wonky roster and super front court heavy and super playmaking light. And yeah, they need Kyrie back. Jason Kidd teased the other day, I don't think he meant it as a tease, but he said, like, he's not ruling out Kyrie by the end of this calendar year, which seems like a crazy thing to do to raise expectations. When he, a few weeks ago was saying he didn't want to put a timeline on it or raise expectations because people had seen Kyrie working out on the practice court. I mean, if Kyrie comes back sometime, let's. Let's just say he does return, maybe like early January or something. Like, there's a salvageable season here. They could be pretty good if. But the problem is when you come back from the acl, you're like, you can come back in a year and sometimes a little less, but you may not be yourself for like a good 18 to 24 months usually. And so saying he's going to come back and be play savior is too much to put on Kyrie at his age with that injury. So, no, I just, I don't expect much out of them this season. They're not a disappointment. They just are what Nico Harrison constructed.

A (53:40)

Why didn't. Didn't Kyrie say that he was going to go on his own plane. And like just. I'm gonna come when I feel like it. No pressure.

B (53:48)

You mean like an airplane or like a plane of existence?

A (53:51)

A. A plane of existence. You not really locked in, bro. You're you, Cliff. You know what I'm talking about. You're not locked in back, bro. You're not really one with yourself.

B (54:04)

Clearly I'm not one with you. Cause I have no idea what you're saying for about like 30% of the pod today.

A (54:09)

6, 7.

D (54:11)

Y' all wanna get to this about. Y' all wanna get to the belt back here?

A (54:14)

No. That's gonna kick my ass.

D (54:21)

Let's get to. Let's get to Alexander gdo's question here. Dear realest of ones longsuffering Kings fan here, who has had to endure as.

B (54:32)

If we didn't crush them enough, who.

D (54:34)

Has had to endure a lot of insignificant amount of mockery about my team and this decision making acument or lack thereof, having dug themselves into a hell that is being the fantasy team. Someone autodrafts based on 5 year old player rankings. Is there an option beyond tearing it down to the studs that would give the Kings a brighter future moving forward? If not, how few pennies on the dollar should they be willing to accept to get rid of all of their good but incongruent players? Best wishes and thanks for all the insight. Alex.

A (55:03)

You want to take this one? Howard?

B (55:04)

Holy shit. All right, first of all, shout out to Alex. Great job with the fantasy team that someone builds on auto draft based on five year rankings. Phenomenal description of your Sacramento Kings. Also great use of incongruent. So I think first things first like because nobody wants to tear down and Alex I think said he does. He's, he's. Is there a way out of this that doesn't involve a tear down? I think it. I don't see that there's any other way. I think like you just whatever you do, don't double down on this build. Don't keep throwing bad money after good, good money after bad, whatever the expression is. Like don't. No more big names and big contracts. No. No John Morant. The only real hope is to offload the big contracts or wait until they expire. So like Zach Levine's got a player option for 2026, so he's probably not off the books till 2027. DeRozan's off in 2027 too. So you've got like one more season after this one before those guys are off the books and that's a combined like 75 million. So that's a lot. They could have significant cap room in 2027. So if you're looking for hope, I don't think it's coming soon, but 2027's two off seasons away. That's when your cap room arrives. If you don't, you know, keep doubling down and screwing up the cap. They have most of their picks available to them, but I'd be gauging the market on everybody. I mean, I. I still think it's only a matter of time before Damana Sabonis just says, what am I still doing here? This is not the team that. That I helped revive along with Dear and Fox and Mike Brown and that whole crew. Like, I, you know, I wonder what his. His mindset is. But I. I'd be. I'd be gauging the market for Sabonis. If there's a market out there for lavine. I don't know, but I would check. I would be looking around to see if anybody wants DeMar DeRozan. I would. I don't know why they believe that Keegan Murray is somehow representative of their present and future. He's. He's been, okay, but, like, I know you drafted him and he's been a popular player, and it's. It's fun when he shoots threes for everybody in the arena to answer with Murray after they say, Keegan, Keegan.

A (57:03)

But.

B (57:04)

But that's it. Like, I just. There's. There's. There are no untouchables on that roster. I would gauge the value on everybody. And, yeah, I'd be. I'd be rebuilding.

A (57:12)

Don't hold your breath. Go back to the old. Just go back to the old days where you just went to go watch the other team for a really good price.

B (57:20)

Can we bring back Arco arena, too?

A (57:22)

No. Absolutely no. Hell no. No, no.

B (57:26)

Never mind.

A (57:28)

Alex, I sympathize with you, man. I sympathize with you.

D (57:33)

Anyways, let's get to the final mailbag question. Let's lighten the beam up over there in Sacramento there. All right. Jeremy Griggs. This is. Or Jeremy Briggs. I'm sorry, this is Howard's favorite subject here. Load management. With load management returning to the fold via Michael Mike Crime, is it time for the league to finally consider aggregate stats? It would eliminate the player participation requirement. Total stats for someone 65 actual games played looked underwhelming when average over 82 games and help award discussions align the league with modern stats. I hope this email finds you and in the darkness bind you. Jeremy. Jeremy Briggs. That was a good one.

A (58:07)

That's fire. We got some good writers riding into the mailbag.

B (58:11)

Is this another reference you need to explain to me, Logan?

A (58:14)

I just thought it was cool. Probably.

B (58:16)

It's cool. I just. I don't have no idea what that means.

A (58:18)

Wait, by the way, real quick, Cliff, I sent. We'll get to the question. I sent Howard the caribou on the. On the radar freestyle. What did you think of it?

B (58:27)

It was fine.

A (58:27)

Yeah. All right, the low management discussion. What do you think about aggregate stats?

B (58:36)

It doesn't solve anything. Like. Like the league could decide as on an official basis that the scoring title is based on total points instead of averages. That's what our. Our listeners getting at here. Right? Because then in theory, you're incentivized to play more games to accrue more points, because it's about your total and not your average. More games, more points. Cool. Same thing with the assist title, block title, everything else. I get that. But when it comes to awards, like the media votes on awards and the league can't tell us base your award voting only on totals and not averages. Like, we're still gonna. We are all just trained since birth to use averages in the NBA. It's not like baseball or football where you can measure a season success for a quarterback or a wide receiver or a pitcher. Strikeout totals like you don't have. We don't do total yards, total strikeouts. We don't do total points like the other leagues do. The NBA has always been about the averages. And I know that it does kind of feed into this idea that you play fewer games and you still look like the top scorer in the league because you averaged like 28 a game on 66 games. But you can't change the awards process, the vote. I mean, I mean, you can change anything you want. But like the awards voting is done by the media. We're probably still going to end up leaning on averages over totals. And load management's not going away regardless if this is proposed as a. As a means to combat load management. Load management is not because players don't want to play. Load management is because teams have invested a ton in sports science and medical staffs and training staffs and in their players that they want to keep healthy. The players, by and large, are not the ones deciding when to play and not to play. It's the teams. And so I don't think that this fixes any part of that.

A (60:22)

Well said. Are you going to be back next week. I feel like I scared you off today. I feel like this was.

B (60:27)

There's. There's just no telling at this point.

A (60:29)

That was another edition of real ones. Thanks so much, Cliff. Thanks so much, VV thanks so much, Howard motherfucking Beck. I'm Logan Murdoch, AKA Logieboo. Not the two. See us Friday. And who knows will be here. I know I'll be here. I hope my homies will be here. See you guys next time. Tap in. Ah, all the shits. Bye. This is 21 years older and present in select states for Kansas and affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 and older and present in DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rghelp.com, call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chatincenecticate or visit mdgamblinghelp.org In Maryland, Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema. Org or call 1-800-327-50 50 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text HOPE NY in New York.