East All-Star Picks. Plus, Take-Off! | Group Chat

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ringer NBA Show – "East All-Star Picks. Plus, Take-Off! | Group Chat"

Episode Overview

In the January 23, 2025 episode of The Ringer NBA Show titled "East All-Star Picks. Plus, Take-Off! | Group Chat," hosts Logan Murdoch, Rob Mahoney, and Wosny Lambre engage in an in-depth discussion about their selections for the Eastern Conference All-Star roster. The conversation delves into player performances, team dynamics, and strategic evaluations, culminating in a spirited "Take-Off" segment where Rob and Waz present their unique takes on NBA scenarios.

---

East All-Star Picks

Timestamp: [03:34] – [54:37]

The primary focus of the episode centers on selecting the Eastern Conference All-Stars. The hosts meticulously analyze backcourt players, frontcourt stalwarts, and potential wild cards, providing a comprehensive breakdown of their choices.

Backcourt Selections

• Jalen Brunson (New York Knicks):
  Wosny Lambre advocates for Brunson as a starter, emphasizing his pivotal role in driving the Knicks' offense despite a perceived dip in efficiency.

  "Brunson is the leader. He's the guy that makes everything go."
  (04:01)

• Darius Garland (Cleveland Cavaliers):
  Celebrated for elevating the Cavaliers' performance, Garland's enhanced role post-Donovan Mitchell trade is highlighted. Logan Murdoch praises Garland's efficiency and playmaking, noting his 54% effective field goal percentage.

  "Garland is not the same guy. When you don't have your jaw wired shut, you can play slightly better basketball."
  (07:19)

• Donovan Mitchell (Cavaliers):
  Despite lower scoring averages, Mitchell's contribution in high-pressure situations and his role as the team's primary scorer secure his position as a starter.

  "Donovan Mitchell's playing in a lot of ways the best basketball of his career. It's just not in points per game."
  (06:45)

Frontcourt Selections

• Jayson Tatum (Boston Celtics):
  Universally acknowledged for his stellar performance, Tatum is a unanimous starter. His versatility and two-way prowess make him indispensable to the Celtics' lineup.

  "No one presents the two-way nature of the team the way the Celtics do."
  (34:12)

• Giannis Antetokounmpo (Milwaukee Bucks) & Karl-Anthony Towns (Minnesota Timberwolves):
  Both players are affirmed as starters due to their consistent excellence and impact on their respective teams. Wosny Lambre highlights Towns' offensive and defensive contributions, particularly his three-point shooting and rebounding prowess.

  "This is the best Town season we've ever seen. This is the type of season that everyone expected for him."
  (25:49)

• Evan Mobley (Cleveland Cavaliers):
  Rob Mahoney commends Mobley's all-around game, placing him alongside Towns as a starting center. His defensive versatility and offensive improvements make him a formidable All-Star candidate.

  "Mobley presented a more well-rounded case for all-star starting center."
  (20:19)

Wildcard Selections

The wildcard spots generate significant debate, with multiple contenders vying for inclusion based on their performances and team impact.

• LaMelo Ball (Charlotte Hornets):
  A strong case is made for Ball due to his impressive scoring and playmaking abilities, despite concerns about his team's overall efficiency and his turnover rate.

  "Lamelo is not the reason that the Hornets are bad. And I get that there's this like inherent pushback against specifically the popular vote element that's going for Lamelo right now."
  (17:39)

• Kade Cunningham (Detroit Pistons):
  Praised for his playmaking and scoring efficiency, Cunningham is favored as a wildcard for his ability to create opportunities and drive his team forward.

  "I think Cade is the best playmaker outside of Jokic who isn't sacrificing shooting efficiency."
  (17:39)

• Zach Lavine (Chicago Bulls):
  Lavine's exceptional efficiency and scoring within the team's flow earn him a wildcard spot. His adaptability and role as a forward-point guard bolster his candidacy.

  "Zach Lavine... his efficiency is absolutely off the charts."
  (40:45)

• Additional Contenders:
  Players like Damian Lillard, Tyrese Halliburton, and Franz Wagner are discussed, each bringing unique strengths and performances worthy of consideration. However, their limited appearances or team dynamics present challenges for inclusion.

Team Dynamics and Player Impact

The hosts explore how individual performances influence team success, particularly focusing on the Cavaliers and Celtics.

• Cleveland Cavaliers:
  Garland's role surpassing Mitchell's highlights a strategic shift that has significantly uplifted the team's performance. Their established pecking order and efficient offense make a compelling case for All-Star recognition.

  "The Cavs have the established pecking order of Mitchell being... the guy."
  (07:19)

• Boston Celtics:
  Despite a challenging stretch, the Celtics' overall point differential remains impressive. Jayson Tatum's versatility and the team's defensive prowess are lauded as key factors in their success and All-Star qualifications.

  "The two-way nature of the team the way the Celtics do."
  (34:12)

Notable Quotes

Throughout the discussion, several insightful quotes encapsulate the hosts' perspectives:

• Wosny Lambre on Jalen Brunson:

  "Brunson is the leader. He's the guy that makes everything go."
  (04:01)

• Rob Mahoney on Darius Garland:

  "I think a lot of what you're pointing out with Donovan Mitchell... it's a healthier, better basketball experience for everybody."
  (07:19)

• Logan Murdoch on Zach Lavine:

  "I think Zach Lavine... his efficiency is absolutely off the charts."
  (40:45)

---

Take-Off Segment

Timestamp: [56:20] – [73:25]

The episode concludes with the "Take-Off" segment, a lively debate between Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre, moderated by Logan Murdoch. This competitive exchange focuses on unconventional basketball strategies and personal takes on league dynamics.

Rob Mahoney’s Take: Defensive Strategy Without Double Teaming

Rob proposes a radical defensive approach where his team avoids double teaming altogether, emphasizing man-to-man coverage and allowing opponents to take uncontested three-pointers. He argues that by focusing on individual matchups and preventing help defense, his team can disrupt offensive flows and capitalize on opponents' isolated efforts.

"Double teaming is not only for cowards. You just shouldn't do it literally ever. Never double team anybody."
(58:43)

Wosny Lambre’s Rebuttal: Celebrating Player Impact and Excitement

Wosny counters Rob's strategy by advocating for celebrating electrifying players like Ja Morant. He emphasizes the importance of dynamic, spontaneous playstyles and the entertainment value they bring to the league. Wosny passionately argues for Ja Morant to be the face of the NBA, highlighting his unique skill set and the competitive spirit he infuses into the game.

"John Morant, he is the most creative player in the league. He's so, so different."
(64:39)

Conclusion of Take-Off

Logan Murdoch serves as the judge for this segment, ultimately awarding the victory to Wosny Lambre based on the compelling and entertaining nature of his take.

"Woz is the winner of the first Take-Off. Congratulations, Woz."
(72:15)

---

Final Thoughts

The episode offers a thorough analysis of Eastern Conference players, balancing statistical evaluation with team dynamics and individual impact. The spirited debates and passionate arguments reflect the hosts' deep engagement with the current NBA landscape, providing listeners with valuable insights and diverse perspectives on All-Star selections.

Notable Quotes Recap

• Rob Mahoney on Team Strategy:

  "Never allow a spot up 3. Stay home on every single shooter."
  (60:58)

• Wosny Lambre on Ja Morant:

  "John Morant is the most creative player in the league. You put your best wing defender on Tatum and you hope for the best."
  (69:40)

• Logan Murdoch on Zach Lavine’s Efficiency:

  "Zach Lavine's efficiency is absolutely off the charts. He has 60.8 effective field goal percentage."
  (40:45)

---

Conclusion

This episode of The Ringer NBA Show delivers a comprehensive discussion on Eastern Conference All-Star selections, enriched by detailed player evaluations and engaging debates. The addition of the "Take-Off" segment adds an entertaining twist, showcasing the hosts' diverse viewpoints and deep knowledge of the game. Whether you're an avid NBA follower or a casual fan, this episode provides valuable insights into the current state of the Eastern Conference and the broader NBA landscape.

Transcript

[Logan Murdoch]

What's poppin everybody? Logan Murdoch here from Real Ones on the Ringer NBA show and I wanted to invite you to pull up and kick it with Raja Bell, Howard Beck and myself during All Star Weekend for our live podcast. We're going to be at the historic Punchline Comedy Club in San francisco on Saturday, February 15th at 2pm pregaming all the All Star festivities and you never know who might stop by. Get your tickets now by heading over to ringer.com events. That's ringer.com events. Hope to see you there. This episode is brought to you by Hyundai Amazon's your go to for all things hoops, game gear, snacks for the late night tip offs, you name it. And now you can shop for a Hyundai there too. Pick your model and trim from a local dealer, see transparent pricing up front and knock out most of the paperwork online. Then just head to the dealership to finalize the deal. Visit Hyundai USA.com or call 562-314-4603 for more details. Limited availability only through participating Hyundai dealers in select markets. This program is available for the purchase of new vehicles and is not currently available for lease. This episode is brought to you by Smucker's Uncrustables. There's nothing like a snack that comes in clutch. So who's the real mvp? Uncrustables the best part of the sandwich. It's a round crimped sandwich made with soft pillowy bread filled with peanut butter and jelly. It goes straight from the freezer to your lunchbox, making it easier to pack lunch and sprint out the door. Now that's a morning win. You'll find Smucker's Uncrustables in the freezer aisle. Hello and welcome back to Group Chat. I am Justin Barrier and joining me, Rob Mahoney. Big Waz. We've got takeoff on this pod. We're kicking it off. We have takeoff in the back segment, it turns out. Right Rob?

[Rob Mahoney]

We do indeed. I have to say the people have spoken. Justin, I put this up to poll on whether our internal communication suggested takeoff would be happening last week or this week. I have to say the people resoundingly agreed with me about two to one on the vote.

[Logan Murdoch]

And where was this poll held?

[Rob Mahoney]

Pre chance on my own Instagram account.

[Big Waz]

Oh, ok.

[Logan Murdoch]

So should we tell the people at Quinnipiac that we've solved objective polling?

[Rob Mahoney]

I think we have.

[Big Waz]

We need to give that lady from Iowa a call because she quit after that poll. Lord have mercy.

[Logan Murdoch]

Well, I'm just glad your people Rallied behind you.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Logan Murdoch]

Look, that says something. I don't know if it says anything to us, but it says something to you.

[Rob Mahoney]

You could have put up a similar poll. You know, we can all gather our own facts today. I don't know if you've heard that.

[Logan Murdoch]

I did see the poll and honestly, I was checking the results a few times when you had it up there. And what I've come to the conclusion is that was. And I just get each other on a level where I knew what was meant.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Logan Murdoch]

And perhaps, like, you just don't have that same symbiosis going.

[Rob Mahoney]

Wow.

[Big Waz]

Yeah, I'm hurt going on, too, is Justin's mode of communication is something that I'm very familiar with outside of Justin variation.

[Logan Murdoch]

I'll be ready. I'll be ready. And I was like, oh, we'll be ready for next week. Yeah, it's a. It's a wism that you. You missed out on.

[Big Waz]

That's all.

[Logan Murdoch]

But we'll get to that in the back end of the podcast. First and foremost, we have to do our East All Star picks. We did west last week. We're going to go through the Eastern Conference, pick the starters, pick the reserves, pick the wild cards, pick everything. Why don't we start from the top? Do you guys want to do backcourt or front court first?

[Rob Mahoney]

Let's do back court. It feels chalky.

[Logan Murdoch]

Okay. I have Chalky.

[Big Waz]

I'm not chalky.

[Rob Mahoney]

No.

[Logan Murdoch]

Okay. Why don't you go ahead then?

[Big Waz]

Jalen Brunson, of course, Even if you want to say he's having a bit of an off year in terms of efficiency, like the Knicks are having a great year, and he is still absolutely the engine that drives what they do. As dope as Carl Towns has played, as amazingly as Bridges has played, no matter how much Rob and Justin dogged him on this podcast early to start the season, I always believed. I never gave up on this guy. As amazing as he's been. OG has even been, you could say, kind of a fringe forward candidate. Whatever. Brunson is the leader. He's the guy that makes everything go. So he's starting. And my second starter is Darius Garland.

[Rob Mahoney]

Wow.

[Logan Murdoch]

Okay, we are.

[Rob Mahoney]

The chalk has been wiped away pretty good.

[Logan Murdoch]

Go ahead, make the case.

[Big Waz]

I just think one. I think Mitchell is having one of his worst years. Just individually. The team has taken off. And I think the reason why it's taken off is because it's become more Garland Central than it was last year and the year before. And so I want to give him the props. For doing that in the backcourt, and Mitchell's still going to make the team. I just think when you look at especially what they're doing on offense while Garland is on the floor is just craziness. And so to me, that's why I wanted to reward him with the nod for having taken a step up in role and responsibility, Especially post Mitchell trade. Where this guy was in his representation was like, get me out of here. Um, the. The office just sings when this kid is on the floor. So I wanted to reward that.

[Rob Mahoney]

I. I think you're putting your finger on something interesting, which is the reason the Cavs are so much better this year is because Garland is not the same guy. It turns out when you don't have your jaw wired shut, you can play slightly better basketball. He's been great, and I would say his growth and Mobley's growth have been the biggest reasons why the Cavs look like a totally different team and why they're able to play so differently. I. I'm just not at the point where I'm going to reward what Darius Garland contributes over what Donovan Mitchell contributes. I think a lot of what you're pointing out with Donovan Mitchell in terms of this being a relative down season for him, a lot of that is him giving up that control. It's him like using the. Using the phrasing. This is one of his worst seasons or one of his lesser seasons I just don't agree with because he's a guy who shouldn't have doing as much as he was doing to begin with. And so, okay, sometimes when the counting stats come down a little bit into the range where they should be, it's a healthier, better basketball experience for everybody. And so I think Donovan Mitchell's playing in a lot of ways the best basketball of his career. It's just not in points per game.

[Big Waz]

One more question before Justin chimes in. How do you feel about Mitchell seeming worse against the best teams in clutch situations, like the best defenses?

[Rob Mahoney]

It's a real thing. I think that is the responsibility of being the guy that he is on that team. Like in those moments against elite defenses, in crunch time situations, it feels telling to me that the Cavs turn to Donovan Mitchell more than anyone else. And so if you want to look at his efficiency and say, oh, why do. Why do Garland's numbers look like this but Mitchell's look like that? A lot of it is the shots that they take relative to the offense. Like Garland is in the flow. Mitchell is creating a lot of that flow.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah, I have Mitchell and Brunson for those reasons. And I think it is tough to ignore the fact that the Cavs have the established pecking order of Mitchell being. Being the guy and Garland being the supplementary guy did not reward Mitchell. As a result of that. I will say the Garland efficiency numbers are pretty sterling. He's basically at 50, 40, 90. And if anything, I think the missed free throws last night, the two against Houston, actually pushed him below 90 in the 54,090 category, unfortunately. But almost 60. Effective field goal percentage, the assists, the three point shooting, he has everything going in a way that is hard to ignore. Like when I went into this exercise, I didn't expect him to be a reserve backcourt for me, but I think it's hard to like put him any lower than that at this point. But I. But I have Mitchell up top because he's the guy there. But I like this case that was is making because he's essentially saying maybe this is the Jalen Brown Finals MVP for Garland, right?

[Big Waz]

Yeah, no, for sure. And I just think, again, I think the reason the offense is better is, is because they're not asking Mitchell to do this heliocentric act that he was never actually suited towards. I think like in Utah, they put, you know, basically three shooters and Rudy next to him. And so the offense was like, okay, simple reads so much space. You know, let's, let's go. This was not as simple. And the fact that they tried to jam that in previously was a mistake. And now again, and we said this a bunch of times, de emphasizing Mitchell, which means that letting Garland cook, to borrow a term from both Russes, um, I think that's been the key to the season offensively specifically. And I think that's where we had the most questions coming into this year. It's like, what are these guys going to do on offense to make it work when all four of their best players on the floor and we learned it's taking the ball out of Donovan Mitchell's hands.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's true. I. I mean, it sounds like we have both of them on all of our ballots. Is that correct? Somewhere or another? Yes.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah. So I have.

[Big Waz]

Mitchell's still a Mets guy. He's not gonna, he's not gonna be off my ballot. Come on now.

[Logan Murdoch]

Is. Is he like Mets? Like, is he a luminary now after the Juan Soto call?

[Big Waz]

Oh, yeah. Oh, my God. Of course. Like, first of all, he's been one of our more public fans, just period. You know, famously, his dad worked for the organization and stuff. Like that. But throughout the entire run last year to the lcs, this kid was freaking bigging us up like he. He's full life. Come on, man.

[Rob Mahoney]

Wait, what is the background on the Juan Soto call? I don't know anything about this was.

[Big Waz]

Wait, what are you talking about? He.

[Logan Murdoch]

So when Juan Soto signed with the Mets over the offseason, which was a huge windfall for the Mets, they took.

[Big Waz]

Him, Donovan Mitchell and him spoke on the phone?

[Logan Murdoch]

Yes. Oh, he recruited. He seemed like he was involved, but there was a very clear video that was taking of Juan Soda, I believe in like a hot tub with multiple people after he officially signed with the Mets, like FaceTiming with Donovan Mitchell. And so it seemed like it was one of, if not maybe Even the first FaceTime he had post signing.

[Big Waz]

So I'm somebody who takes a lot of this stuff as pr, you know, the things that make it to the Internet. Listen, after the freaking Blake Lively Baldoni situation, it's hard for me to believe any Internet theories these days. So, like, I kind of took it more as that. But shoot, if Donovan Mitchell is calling people, you know, a la D. Wade, Big three era, then I might have to bump from the start. If that's the case, man, how come.

[Rob Mahoney]

The two of you, in a moment of celebration and triumph, have never FaceTimed me from a hot tub before?

[Big Waz]

I thought.

[Rob Mahoney]

I thought we were. We're not on Donovan Mitchell, Juan Soto levels.

[Logan Murdoch]

We could do that tonight.

[Big Waz]

We're gonna work on that. Don't worry. Okay, that's being worked on.

[Logan Murdoch]

I'm bummed he didn't call Grimace. I feel like if he had done that.

[Big Waz]

Oh, my God. With the Grimace. Get Grimace out of it once and for all.

[Logan Murdoch]

Please turn on Grimace pretending he's too big for Grimace.

[Big Waz]

I'm not gonna lie. The freaking Azaki news, man. Bummed me the hell out. I'm like, dude, these guys just get to keep getting players for free. Like, just defer payments, don't pay people at all. This is nuts. We got to look into these dudes.

[Logan Murdoch]

For everyone complaining about the NBA, like, we're doing way better than baseball. I'll say that the Dodgers have a fucking all star team at this point. Deferred money. That's what I'm going to get on my next contract. For these backcourt spots, though, I have Garland just for the reserves. Not Wildcard. Yeah, I have Garland and I have Kid Cunningham.

[Rob Mahoney]

Okay? I did Garland and Lamelo for the original backups.

[Logan Murdoch]

Well, Melo. No, he's.

[Rob Mahoney]

Guys, he's. He's gotta be on there.

[Big Waz]

I, I get to play more.

[Rob Mahoney]

I get the. He's got only 27 games played. Granted the 11 and 29 Charlotte Hornets. I'm not saying Charlotte is deserving of an all star in the way that we are talking about, you know, teams like Houston for example being deserving of an all star. But you know what is deserving? A Dude who's putting up 30 a game and next level playmaking every night and is literally the only reason his team has a chance to win. And, and like that bears out in the data that bears out when you watch the team like he's the only thing keeping them together.

[Big Waz]

I hear you. And, and I definitely made a similar case for Ja Morant. Um, the difference is like this is a team that I think is destined for probably the conference finals and a team that's destined for Cooper flag. Like it's just hard for me to make the equivalent cases especially on the games miss basis. It's like to what end it like it like he's playing well. But to what, like what are we getting out of it?

[Rob Mahoney]

To the end of the Hornets playing the closest they can play to winning basketball. Like ultimately I think the argument for Ja is very different because the level of competition in the west is so steep when you're talking like these are really good players. But Lamelo is having a slightly more efficient season than Cade. He's turning the ball over less than Cade. He's scoring with the absolute best in the league despite having not a functional NBA roster around him. I like, I take all of these things as positives. I'm not saying that the Hornets are in a great place. I'm not saying that they wouldn't love to be where the Pistons are right now for, for one example. But Lamelo is not the reason that the Hornets are bad. And I get that there's this like inherent pushback against specifically the popular vote element that's going for Lamelo right now. He, he's not the pick to be a starter clearly. But I think between what he contributes and what he means to the Hornets, it's, it's really significant. It is a star level impact and I think that's worth rewarding.

[Logan Murdoch]

I think Lamelo, like most of us in the country is suffering from a little bit of inflation in this regard statistical. Because he does strike me as something of a run and gun spread football college football offense that's just putting up numbers and on efficiency basis. First of all, Lamel not a particularly efficient shooter despite jacking what 13 threes a game, I believe it is.

[Rob Mahoney]

But again, more efficient than guys like Kate.

[Logan Murdoch]

Sure. But then that we get into the winning and the effectiveness of this. The Hornets had the 28th offense in the NBA right now. It's not like they're just completely bereft of other options that he could be working off of. Like, they have guys. I know Brandon Miller's out right now, but yeah, I mean, they have, they have bridges. Mark Williams is a giant athlete at center. And so it's hard to really reward Lamelo because it does feel like. And even during the course of the game, like he's just kind of like loafing and just jacking a lot of the time. So I don't know.

[Big Waz]

And the thing for me too, especially with Cade, and by the way, my. I put Cade in wild card, but my guard is Damian Lillard. But like the thing for me with both of those guys, it's like, especially with, with Case, Dame is different. Like he's playing on a team unlike Cade and unlike Lamelo, like they're chasing something meaningful. There's. There's just a different seriousness to what they're doing.

[Rob Mahoney]

Sure.

[Big Waz]

Okay. Cade, especially the last like six weeks, my biggest question for him and you know, as you guys know, I never sold my Cade stock was like, is he ever going to get to a place where he's beating good defenders one on one by himself, creating space? He's doing that shit now. Like, he's a guy who, like, you put the best defenders on the league against him and he's creating space against those guys in a way that I'm like, damn. Okay, like the Max contract, the, the, the sort of plaudits that he got coming into the draft, all of that stuff is being, you know, sort of justified now because Cade is taking it to the other level. Obviously, Detroit is playing way, I mean, way better than Charlotte is right now.

[Rob Mahoney]

Not even close, for the record, like.

[Big Waz]

Those guys like this just something unserious about what Mellow Ball is doing right now. It still has this air of just unseriousness to it. There's no stakes to it. I don't know, maybe that's just an eye test for me. Maybe that's just the old fogey in me. It's just something not serious about what he does. And I get it in the spirit of the All Star Game, this guy absolutely belongs. The fans certainly love this guy. The people absolutely love him. But boy, I don't know, above Cade and Dame and Donovan Mitchell, I can't, I can't get there with this guy.

[Logan Murdoch]

Is Cade the best playmaker outside of Jokic who isn't sacrificing shooting efficiency like because obviously Trey is leading the league in assists, but the shooting numbers are quite paltry. Cade is blending shooting efficiency and scoring with being one of the highest playmakers in the league. Plus the defense, plus the success of the team. I thought he was very clearly the third guard on this list. If you guys still have them on your list somewhere, I'm not going to argue because these guys are all of similar types.

[Big Waz]

But like yeah, yeah, the third non starter. Yes, yes. Third non starting guard for me for sure.

[Logan Murdoch]

Distance are six in the east one game behind the Bucks.

[Big Waz]

Like got to reward that.

[Logan Murdoch]

I think, I think he's had an awesome season and he deserves my third spot. If we are ranking these in order.

[Rob Mahoney]

Justin, you're talking about individual shooting efficiency because he's again, he's not that efficient from the field in part. Like I'm not trying to tear the guy down. Kate is an all star. Kate is a turning into a great half court creator. He didn't need the perfect situation around him. He just needed like an actual NBA team. As soon as he got that squad. Yeah, as soon as he got that, his game starts to sing. But he's not a hyper efficient scorer.

[Logan Murdoch]

No, I just mean like his turnover.

[Big Waz]

Rate is crazy to the. Is one of the things that like you know, I think the other night he had 11 turnovers or something crazy like that. Like his turnover rate is wild. But I, I mean the other stuff that he's doing, man, and it's so obvious. Detroit like wouldn't be anywhere close to this good without him playing the way that he's playing. And so I'm definitely on the cage train. But you know, Rob is definitely selling me on Lamelo in terms of just the raw numbers and output. Even in 27 games, it's. It's really eye popping. 30 points a game.

[Rob Mahoney]

Like damn, it's kind of insane. And, and to do it, I think like Justin, you're right. There are good players on the Hornets. Most of them have missed significant time at best. Even, even the better among them are quite young and quite raw and in some ways as unserious as Lamelo is on some nights. And so to do what he does and to carry what he does I think is pretty unique to. To what Woz was saying. It's not to very positive ends as of yet, but I think he's in this class. I think it's totally fair to pick N. Cade and Lamelo and Dame. And there's gonna be. There's a lot of really qualified guards, honestly, in the Eastern Conference right now. And you can make a case for as many as like six or seven different players to have these spots. But yeah, for me, they're. The initial backups are Darius, Garland and Lamelo. And I'm. I'm sure we're gonna get into more guards in the wild cards if we want to get into that now or if we want to save that for the end.

[Logan Murdoch]

Let's do the wild cards at the end and let's circle back to the forwards here to start. So we have three forward spots, forward center spots. Um, I have Tatum, Giannis, Towns.

[Rob Mahoney]

Check, check, check.

[Logan Murdoch]

Wallace.

[Big Waz]

I put Mobley over Towns, which was razor.

[Rob Mahoney]

Let's go, Wallace.

[Big Waz]

It was razor, razor thin. But again, like, you can't. So like, for me, Garland feels like he's the biggest improvement on the offense and the defense is the defense because of Mobley.

[Rob Mahoney]

Right.

[Big Waz]

Like, their defense becomes a special kind of thing because Mobley not only does he guard my paint, not only getting cleaning up my glass when he has to, he's going to guard Jason Tatum and Pablo Bonchero and Franz Vogner and like whoever the hell you want. Like, yo, when he needs to, he's going to do all of that. And then he's made the improvements on offense. You know, the three point efficiency is nice, but he's taking like one and a half a game. Whatever, we won't quibble, but he's taking them now, which is nice. And what he's able to do against smaller guys. The bully ball, he's just so improved his playmaking. He's just so improved. Then in terms of defensive play of the year, this guy is probably third, second, you know. You know, everybody's basically just giving it to Wimby at this point, and probably rightfully so, but like he's number two or three with a bullet, right? And so for me, you know, just his game has been a little bit more well rounded than Carl's has. And Carl's is right there. It's not like I'm like, oh, Carl, Carl's not there. And Carl did start off so putrid on defense. It was so disgusting. It's a whole season and he's definitely gotten better. He's definitely gotten too passable. But like, he was so horrible to start the year. And so I just think Mobley presented a more well rounded case for all star starting center. Want to reward the Guys that do it on both ends.

[Rob Mahoney]

What a bunch of facts from Woznia Lambre on today's spot. Also was making peace with the American heartland is something that's really enjoying working on it.

[Big Waz]

Like, like everybody else, I'm sucking up to the winners, you know, like I'm, I'm, I'm working on that.

[Logan Murdoch]

Should we send you to do a residency in Cleveland?

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, yeah.

[Logan Murdoch]

Where you're just doing pods every day from there. I know how much you love it.

[Rob Mahoney]

He might miss the team flight on that one.

[Logan Murdoch]

That's right.

[Big Waz]

We kid the great city of Cleveland, Ohio. We kid you guys, the great city.

[Logan Murdoch]

But Rob, you have Towns over Mobley.

[Rob Mahoney]

I do. I mean, I'm not going to disparage Evan Mobley and I think if anything, Mobley is very clearly the next up front court player. So I get where was coming from.

[Big Waz]

Probably the sixth man of my All Star team. If I'm being real with you guys.

[Rob Mahoney]

The All Star sixth man, a new distinction that we have created.

[Big Waz]

Meaning, like Giannis Tatum, Brunson Garland as my starters. Right. And Mobley, like, I think the sixth man for me is Carl Towns.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Big Waz]

Like, he's the one that I came the closest to throwing in the starter, even more so than Mitchell, to be honest, over the, over his teammate. Carl Towns to me is like, damn, like to be doing what he's doing with the expectations that were placed on him. And in the pressure cooker that is New York, the way he stepped up, it just immediately made them one of the best offenses in the NBA. Like, that's the one that I most struggled leaving off of the starting group.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think he's having the kind of monster season where he kind of. He needs to be a starter. I understand the case for Evan Moby Mobley, clearly. I have so much respect for what he's done this year. But this has been a profoundly important year for Carl Anthony Towns in terms of consolidating all the things he can do, the shooting, the huge rebounding numbers for a really small team in a way that kind of holds it together on the boards. Completely beasting. It's not his highest scoring season, but it is the, the kind of volume that really matters. And his ability to absorb when Jalen Brunson is getting smothered or having an off night, and particularly earlier in the year when overall, as you were saying was some of the pieces of the team were still kind of coming together and they were, they were trying to figure out what they could be to each other and how they could help each other. It was Towns who is sort of like the parachute every night out getting them through that process. That's certainly worth rewarding. The raw totals and the raw numbers are certainly worth rewarding. You just watch games and you see him have a huge effect on the way that teams try to guard one of the most potent offenses in the league. I think that's an all star starter to me.

[Logan Murdoch]

I was digging into some of the data last night on Townes three pointers and I was like, is Towns about to be the first big man to ever hit 400 threes? And then I realized I was working at looking at the wrong column and wasted like 20 to 30 minutes of my life last night. So that was cool. But you guys realize that Clifford Robinson took 471 threes one year.

[Rob Mahoney]

Shout out to Cliff.

[Logan Murdoch]

95, 96 right after the line shortened.

[Big Waz]

Let's go.

[Logan Murdoch]

Portland legend right there. Yukon Legend. He was, he was the trailblazer for me. But I like this quote from Will Hardy from earlier in this season. He said about Towns. Playing Towns versus Towns is a way more of a mental battle because the threes are loud. When he makes two in a row, it warps your brain. You start thinking, man, he's killing us from three. Then the game ends in 31 points, nine from three. I think that's really Towns in a nutshell. It's not only just like the volume and the efficiency he's shooting with them. It does feel demoralizing that the biggest guy in the court is hitting these high stakes three pointers and there is sort of like this diminishing effect. Like when he's rolling, it kind of gets a team down. And so I have to reward Towns. This is the best Town season we've ever seen. This is the type of season that everyone expected for him to have over and over again. And so for me, he was the clear cut option over mobile. Because Mobley's case is more subtlety. Like it's efficiency, it's the in between stuff. It's defense. But talent to me is more.

[Big Waz]

So his team is like at an all time rate point differential. It's not just that they, they got the record, they're smoking people. Like they've been so freaking good. That's like, that's what it is. It's like it's not just that they're good and record wise, but like they've been way better than the Knicks. Like they haven't been, oh appreciably they've been way better than New York on paper this season. And I think the guys that are driving that should be, you know, rewarded. But to, to, to Justin's point, I'm watching, you know, Rivalry week on tnt. I was riveted by it, as I'm sure both you guys were. And they're playing the Nets who are obviously completely cooked, but they're in a tight game. And the Knicks, what they do, they just spam the two man with him and Brunson at the end of the game. Like the fact that they've already done done that, they already got that in their hip pocket that there's this two man game created by Brunson and Townsend. Brunson, not just with one obviously the pick and pop. His drive game is always a little like, you know, it's like when a three, as Bill always says, when like a three year old gets going and you're not sure if he's going to like bust his lip on the coffee table or if like something okay is going to happen, it can happen like that. But like his interior passing when he's playing with Precious, he's good at the interior passes. Like you know, OG likes to play his bully ball. And so Towns is often the times making that pass into the freaking post. Like he's like diversified his attack in so many ways. Like yeah, man, to Justin's point, it's been a revelation to watch.

[Logan Murdoch]

Carl Towns starting Lineup has played 734 minutes.

[Big Waz]

They all played over 36 minutes against the Nets the other night.

[Logan Murdoch]

The next lineup is 4:80. It's not double, but it's closer than it should be.

[Rob Mahoney]

I saw some flagging recently too, including from our friend Tom Haberstraw about how many low leverage minutes the starters are playing, which is to say like just at the ends of blowouts. They're just playing five and six minutes at a time for absolutely no reason. Someone please intervene and save the Knicks.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah, Wise, can we get a Knicks check? Because I believe you're in New York right now. What, what are the streets saying about the Knicks? Is it optimism based on the success?

[Big Waz]

No, nobody's, nobody's even thinking about that. It's pedal to the metal. We got to get to the postseason. We gotta, you know, and Boston is like underachieving and you know, in their championship form or whatever. So guys are fooling themselves into like we only a few games from Boston. But I was like, all right, trust me, they are, they're ready. And you know, and I think the Towns thing has been so surprising, man, how good he's been how quickly it's happened. I think that is what New York Knicks fans are wrestling with the most. It's like, this guy is freaking good as hell and it's really fun to root for. And just like you said about Will Hardy, like when he makes two threes in a row in the Garden, like, these people go nuts. And so, yeah, man, and Josh Hart can't make the All Star team, but he's All Star in my heart.

[Rob Mahoney]

I was about to say he's going to get some other superlatives on this pod at some point, if not All Star consideration. Josh Hart's been awesome, we should say. As a news note goes, Carl Towns has now a bone chip in his thumb and since that happened, basically has not been able to shoot threes. Granted, it's only been a couple games, so something to monitor as far as his impact. Everything that we've said about the spacing he provides and the threat he creates, if his shooting gets away from him, a lot of that shifts and changes right under the Knicks feed. And so I'm. I'm curious to see what New York makes of that and if Townsend can kind of get back on track as he gets a little bit healthier.

[Logan Murdoch]

Jericho Sims time, baby. Why don't we talk about Tatum, who very clearly is on this list. I don't think there's much of an argument. It's probably his best season, or at the very least, his most productive season.

[Rob Mahoney]

So good.

[Logan Murdoch]

He's been so good. We'll be on the MBP ballot. We'll see about how high. The Celtics overall, though, haven't been performing all that well. Five and four in a recent stretch. Last night against the Clippers, they almost coughed that one up. If not for as Isaiah Blakely, our producer, said before we got on this pod. Jaden Springer time.

[Rob Mahoney]

Hell yeah.

[Logan Murdoch]

Are you guys worried at this point? Cause they haven't won a back. Last night was their first back to back that they've won since like the very first two games of this calendar year.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's January. Yeah.

[Big Waz]

Not worried.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's seasonal depressive season. It's all right.

[Big Waz]

Don't worry about too many big games collectively. Individually, not worried at all. Joe Missoula, though. Oh my God. Friend of the pod. Ben Golliver on his Instagram. Y'all go check that out. Joe Missoula at the end of the game, calling timeout. Just jumping in the ref's face. Joe Missoula might, please. Might need a volume pretty soon here, y'all. Like he needs to chill. Is weed legal in Massachusetts yet? My God, pass this guy a gummy. Lord have mercy, brother. Chill out. It's January.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think Joe Missoula might be too straight edge for all that. I'm not sure that he's about that particular life.

[Big Waz]

Jesus Christ. Down on Zanny's, apparently.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think the Celtics are fun. They're going through it in the way that great teams and especially championship teams often do. They. They don't have a ton to play for in a very different way than, as we were saying, teams like the Hornets don't have a lot to play for right now. It's just kind of getting through the season, going through the motions, trying to stay healthy. And it's always difficult at this stage in the calendar to stay on top of your rhythms and your rotations and the nuances of what makes like a great team a great team. So they're going to be fine in the end? Are they unbeatable? No. Like they're still a very good but somewhat vulnerable team if the right matchup were to hit them. It's just that they stress the hell out of everybody else in the process.

[Logan Murdoch]

Still third in point differential, 9.5 despite this bumpy stretch, which we should mention is one game over.500. So I tend to agree with you guys. The problem is always just like the shooting variance. So on the, on the high end, like the Cavs have shot the hell out of the ball. I imagine some of that will come back to earth and the Celtics will obviously get a little bit better on that. And they've only shot 36% as a team. I guess the worry, if you were to make the case on the other side of this is just like, you know, maybe it doesn't, maybe it doesn't round out. And does that affect a team like the Celtics that have built everything around that is Chris Stops not quite right. Is Drew Holiday showing signs of aging in ways that like you can't really fix on the fly? Their bench guys haven't really given them the just absolute stopgap solution that I think a lot of people would expect, like some of the shooters beyond Peyton Pritchard. And so I get it. I guess on the margins they're just not as fearsome. But in a playoff series, they still seem to have the ultimate trump card. But just being able to go five out in like daring teams to, to have the two way excellence that they.

[Rob Mahoney]

Have and they can win some of those games when they don't shoot well, it's just a little Bit more of a coin toss. Which when you have a lineup that's as loaded and talented as theirs, you want to do better than a coin toss. But. But that's the reality of NBA basketball. If there's something to take away from that variance, it is. The Celtics are capable of a two week stretch in which they don't shoot particularly well. And when that happens, they can drop games against teams that they should otherwise beat.

[Big Waz]

My thing with the Celtics is that nobody presents the two way nature of the team the way the Celtics do. Like, they could drop 150 and hold you to 90 on any given night if that's what they decide to do. You know, like I just. There's no other team that has that. And so that's why I think I'm not worried about them. Like, I think their defense has a switch collectively. Like they have a switch that they can get to, a gear that they can get to in terms of guarding the hell out of people in multiple ways. And you know, the offense is what it is. Like the five out dynamism. Like, come on, man. Like I'm, I'm just. They're chilling right now and I think they've earned the right to do that.

[Logan Murdoch]

To be honest, it's as much a compliment to the Cavs. I feel like, and perhaps like the growing depth in the middle of the east that I think people are being a little bit more worried about the Celtics. The fact that like the Cavs seem like a worthy suitor to potentially knock them off in a series. But also if you look at the path the Celtics have from now to the NBA Finals, at this point they might have to play the Magic, the Knicks and then the Cavs all before getting to the Finals. That like, that's really tough. Especially if the Magic get both Franz and Paulo back. I think Franz is maybe might play tonight. And so like that's hard. That's going to be hard for any team. And so the margins again, they're just like starting to creep in and just like repeating is near impossible at this point.

[Rob Mahoney]

The path is going to be tough for the Celtics, but to pull it all back. What those teams don't have is someone like Jason Tatum, who can play such a variety of styles, who was, as you alluded to their overall like two way play of the team. A lot of that comes down to the versatility of what Tatum provides, where it's, it's. He's an elite shot maker, clearly a guy who can drive offense, somebody who's playmaking and handle has become really important to everything that Boston does and kind of getting them into their. Their ball movement and their flow, but also the range of players he can guard, the number of guys he can switch onto, the kinds of schemes, and the breadth of approaches that Joe Missoula has at his disposal. Because of a player like Tatum, you.

[Big Waz]

Can'T say in the playoffs credibly, was guarding centers, no problem. And you can't.

[Rob Mahoney]

You can't say anything similarly switchy or versatile about what Donovan Mitchell gives you on defense or frankly, even what Paolo Bancaro gives on defense. Like, he's just at a different threshold as far as what a star, an all. Like an all around impressive player can provide right now.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah, that's a good segue into the rest of the front court. Here we have Mobley, I believe all of us. Do you guys also have Jalen Brown here?

[Rob Mahoney]

I do, yeah, down here.

[Big Waz]

But I don't give a damn off pedigree alone. He's on my team. Sorry.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think it's more than pedigree. I think he, as much as anything, is like what makes the Celtics so overwhelming. You know, you put your best wing defender on Tatum and you hope for the best. You scramble out to all the shooters, maybe you catch the Celtics on an off night, as we've been talking about, and then you got to figure out what the fuck to do with Jalen Brown, who's so skilled and so big and so physical. And I just think it's modulated his game really effectively to what the Celtics are trying to do.

[Logan Murdoch]

And so for this last spot, I agree with Rob there. This last spot could go any goddamn way. I have like five different guys who I would be in consideration here. Can I guess who you guys picked?

[Rob Mahoney]

I would love that.

[Logan Murdoch]

I think was picked Jalen Johnson.

[Big Waz]

I think I wish I had the nuts to do that, but I didn't.

[Logan Murdoch]

Okay. I was gonna guess Yakim for Rob.

[Rob Mahoney]

You're correct.

[Logan Murdoch]

Oh, he's got one of them.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's right on my sleeve, you know.

[Logan Murdoch]

There you go. Wait, wise, who did you pick?

[Big Waz]

I picked Franz, which again, the games thing is horrible. But he's been way. He's been so good, everybody.

[Logan Murdoch]

He's really good.

[Big Waz]

Even if you add if. If, like, whatever. All they've played more games like Seakum, Paolo, Jared Allen, Bam, Paul George, the Scotty Vic. What are we doing? What are we doing?

[Logan Murdoch]

No one is making this.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, no one's making the vouch case on this.

[Logan Murdoch]

He's on a long, long list.

[Big Waz]

Who are these Guys, I think traditionally this was coming into the season, if we would have did a preseason All American like they do in college, a preseason All Star, this would have been bam, out of bio. He's been horrific. He's been terrible. Okay, offensively anyway. And so it's just like at a certain the. Fran, Franz has just been so much better than these people. I get the games missed. He's got to be in for me.

[Logan Murdoch]

So 25 games played is where he's at right now. And unlike in the west, where there are a couple of guys in the mix there, Luca, John morant in the 20s, like, Franz is very much like one of the few guys in that range who we're probably going to consider. But I really struggled with this one in part because, like, if you look at the course of this season, Franz's breakthrough was very much the story of the NBA season overall. For about a month or two, they were 13 and seven with him. And no Paulo, the numbers are awesome. He had almost six assists in average still to this day. And so, yes, if he had the games, I would have voted for him, but I just couldn't get there. Rob, where were you?

[Rob Mahoney]

Similarly, I mean, these thresholds are fuzzy, especially with the games played. You know, like, I'm putting Lamelo in. He hasn't played that much more than Franz. Ultimately, I think for me, it came down to less about what the games played said about Franz and more how it contrasted with what the Pacers get from Siakam, who has been, you know, not just the most consistent player for Indiana. Absolutely. Solid as a rock, like their most. Their best and most dependable player. No free ads, but I just. I think people overall are probably not fully up on how good Pascal has been this season. It's. It's been easy to kind of write the Pacers off early, but the reason they got through that early malaise was because Siakam was holding it down when guys like Tyrese Halliburton, frankly, weren't. When other other role players were coming and going from the lineup. He's where Indiana turns late in the clock. He's resourceful enough to create advantages against basically any defender in the league. And I think we're just seeing a great season from one of the most versatile forwards in the game. You could also say that about France. He just got a little undercut by. Well, I guess kind of taken out by that oblique. Not necessarily undercut, but. But whatever curse has plagued the Orlando Magic this season claimed Franz Wagner, and I think probably cost him an all star spot. Although stranger things have happened than the coaches rewarding a breakout player like Franz.

[Logan Murdoch]

Sure. Especially if he comes back today, has like two to three games under his belt and I could definitely see it. Siakam. It's a compelling case, especially because he's shooting the hell out of the ball. There really aren't any things you can nitpick with him.

[Big Waz]

Definitely the guy that comes next for sure.

[Logan Murdoch]

Well, I didn't vote for either of these guys. Whoa. I picked and I hope that he's eligible. I'm not technically sure but I have.

[Big Waz]

Zach Levine as in the forward spot.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah, he's technically a forward. I don't know if he qualifies there but his efficiency is absolutely off the charts. He has right now a 60.8 effective field goal percentage that the highest non big man in the entire league. It is the same exact efficiency as Carl Towns and.1 percentage points from Giannis and Tetokounmpo, like everything you'd want from a go to scorer has basically been there. I mean you could quibble with the defense. It's not going to be there for a lot of the guys. I think we're going to talk about in these wild card spots is basically which scoring guard you really want to reward here. If Lavine does have the forward eligibility. I think the only case really against him is the fact that people just got so down on him post injury and like his trade value that people aren't really as receptive to him being in this mix. But man, I know the Bulls think but. But Levine's been awesome this year and so that spot is so soft. I'm willing to give it to him. Someone who's excelled in that versus like, I don't know, Siakam. Like he is just the model of stability and like overall effect. I just want my scores in the All Star game.

[Rob Mahoney]

I get it. I mean he's been incendiary.

[Big Waz]

I. Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

For everything we've said about Zach Levine and I think we've noted his. His streak like the streaks in his play a couple times on the pod. Some of the things he's doing this year that he wasn't necessarily doing in seasons past and overall just how dangerous a score he can be. That's part of the reason why he ends up in trade rumors so often. The injuries are the other part. The. The complications are the other part. But we've had this vision of Zach Lavine in our heads for so long and it's been awesome to see it realized. Even if it is For a Bulls team that is always kind of middling, is always kind of weird and well, Josh Giddy is the. Is the, like the gift that keeps on giving for Justin in this case, because he's really the reason why Zach Levine is a front court player is. If you consider Josh Giddey a guard, then Zach Levine, I guess by definition is a forward.

[Logan Murdoch]

I think he technically starts at small forward.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think he does. I think he's.

[Logan Murdoch]

Josh Giddy might be like twice his size.

[Rob Mahoney]

Honestly, there aren't a lot of great all star candidates. It he like, I guess, point guard.

[Big Waz]

I. I look at him as more of a point forward because he can't shoot. Like, because he can't shoot. He's not a guard in my mind, you know what I mean? Like, because he can't shoot at all. You know, he's just a. He's like a. He's almost like a Igu Dolla in my mind, you know what I'm saying? Like, he's like a forward, point is type of player.

[Logan Murdoch]

He's an in between guy. He's a connector.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, more, more. I mean, I get what you're saying about Iguodala, but like, I was just.

[Big Waz]

Wrong for thinking of Levine in my mind as a guard.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Big Waz]

I mean, fighting with the guard. He's fighting with the guards and not the forwards. But shoot, if we could cheat that way, then I'm glad to scratch Franz off and put Levine in because I.

[Rob Mahoney]

Love throwing Zach Levine straight in.

[Big Waz]

Throwing Franz over the bones.

[Rob Mahoney]

Insane.

[Logan Murdoch]

We love it. We started a movement here. All right, wild card spots. I have. Let's see here. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. Probably like five to six guys I considered for here. And I'm not going to quibble with whoever you guys put up there. I have Damian Lillard and I have Tyler Hero.

[Big Waz]

Ooh, yeah. Dame is obviously on my team. Tyler Hero is not. My wild cards ended up being Kaden and Trey Young.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah. How quickly you forget about our Hawks, Justin.

[Big Waz]

Exactly.

[Logan Murdoch]

Well, here's the, here's the question I have for you guys. How did you really divvy this up between Jalen Johnson and Trey Young?

[Big Waz]

The guy with the ball. It's just the guy with the ball. The guy leading the league and assist. The straw that stirs the drink, if you will. And like, anytime I've watched these guys in big games when they're coming out on top, Trey is like his. His imprint is all over this stuff, you know? And so for me, I'm definitely Trey over Jalen and maybe Next year, Jalen will be the guy. Right. I just think this year is still a Trey Young operation fundamentally. And so that's why he. He ended up becoming my guy. But I definitely, you know, considered Levine considered Maxi, kind of considered hero too, because he is having a great season. He deserves it for the Heat. But, yeah, Trey ended up being the guy that snuck in there. And, you know, Ro definitely almost like I've definitely wanted to consider the lamelo over Trey here as my very last all star wild card pick because again, he does bring the same playmaking not to Trey's level, but the. A playmaking ability. And dropping 30 a game in the NBA is still. That's still crazy. Even in the juiced baseball era of.

[Rob Mahoney]

The NBA, it's not too late for you to see the world as I do. Was. Which is why not both. Why not LaMelo on the proper team? Trey Young as a wild card. I also had Cade as a leftover where you guys had him higher. So Kate and Trey are my wild cards. I. I agree with everything that. That we said about the.

[Big Waz]

The load that off the all star team.

[Rob Mahoney]

I did. I did. Wow. I love. I left. I left Dame off the all star team. He's been very good. There's been a lot of very good players. I think, honestly, I. I thought Tyrese Halliburton might squeeze in. And he's had such a great second quarter of the season. If. Or I guess second, third of the season. Whatever we are now, they just keep.

[Logan Murdoch]

Rewarding Halliburton for like a month of basketball last year.

[Big Waz]

I'm doing it. I'm doing it.

[Rob Mahoney]

If you look at team performance and you look at the impact numbers and you look at overall, like Tyrese Halliburton relative to Darius Garland relative to Trey Young relative to Kade Cunningham, you will be shocked by how favorable in some ways those. Those comparisons are to Tyrese Halliburton. We just get that image of who you are the first four weeks of the season anchored in our heads, and that's who you are. I think he's made a really strong game for himself. That said, didn't make my team. Trey in particular, I found very hard to leave off, despite the fact that I love Jalen Johnson and I want. I want to salute our friend Michael Pina, who did find room for Jalen Johnson on his list for the ringer.com but Trey is basically tied for having the highest assist total in the last 25 years right now.

[Big Waz]

Like he.

[Rob Mahoney]

He. It is a Trey Young offense, as you said, was but it's also one that doesn't feel gimmicky and doesn't feel like it's in his. The ball is in his hands too much. He, he creates a lot of advantages in all of these other Hawks, Jalen Johnson included, although Jalen creates a fair bit himself. Are drafting off of that momentum of, of the advantages that Trey creates.

[Big Waz]

To Rob's point, the impact metrics do absolutely love Halliburton.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, it's because he makes a big impact on the game. It's not rocket science.

[Big Waz]

They, they, they definitely do. But at the same, it's like the guy has a 211 1/2% usage.

[Rob Mahoney]

He's not a shoot first point guard. Like so usage stats don't incorporate passing. So it's just turnovers and shooting, which he doesn't shoot a ton. He doesn't turn the ball over a ton.

[Logan Murdoch]

So I was listening to a Mike D'Antoni interview recently for this research that I'm doing for this story. I think it was with thinking basketball a couple years ago and he was talking about how he was listening to the radio and this is during his Phoenix days and they were going over who's the best player, like, oh, this guy, this guy. And they eventually got to Steve Nash. Right? And the case against Nash, one of these guys was making one of the radio guys was that, oh, he just makes his team better. He doesn't really like, you know, he doesn't do the stuff. And D'Antonio is obviously like, well, that's it. That's the stuff. Like that's the whole thing. And there is a little bit of that case with Halliburton. And it made me think about Halliburton a lot of ways. He gets the Nash comp a lot. Probably more last season than this season for obvious reasons. But at the same time it is tough in this era where guys are doing more to not like want to reward the guys actually doing this stuff from the guys who are playmaking. And so I don't.

[Big Waz]

It's just like a more overall two games, man. Damn.

[Logan Murdoch]

And the thing about Nash obviously was like, he should have done more shooting wise. Like he was the best shooter probably in recent basketball history, like one of them in addition to like the warriors guys and so on. And so like, like, if anything like Halliburton has that knowledge and he should do more. He's just like, he can't because he's not as much of a threat. So that's a long winded way of saying, like, I get the case for Halliburton, I think about him a little differently now as a result, but he's still like, I don't know, third, fourth, fifth, probably down the list of guys that I would want to reward here. I obviously had Dame. I think his case is, is what it is again, like scoring guards can't play defense. Hasn't played as many games as some of these guys. A lot of these guys are in the 40s, which is something I factored in here. I just find Tyler Hero's case to be really compelling. Like the Heat's offense really is. Tyler Herro at this point. Like the efficiency off the charts, the scoring has been really good. He isn't doing it like just completely empty calories.

[Big Waz]

Style.

[Logan Murdoch]

It feels like he's playing within the flow of the team. Like he is playmaking enough in order to get other guys involved. And like the difference between the Hawks and the Heat is literally one game, it's one win. And so I don't know. And I'll be honest, like, it's hard to really split the Hawks at this point. I agree. Trey's playmaking is ridiculous. And not having a guy with 11 plus assists on the all star team feels a little weird for me. The shooting numbers are just kind of horrid and hard to really ignore. Jalen. And then like you also look at Jalen Johnson. Like the team doesn't look right when Jalen Johnson isn't on the floor and just train. I think that matters. I will say Jalen Johnson, five assists a game. Like I knew he was playmaking, but that number just absolutely popped off.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think the Jalen Johnson problem is like, I know the wild cards are positionless and ultimately you're comparing Jalen Johnson, two guys like Dame, two guys like Trey. But relative to the other front court candidates, Jalen Johnson just isn't quite there, you know, and this is, this is a tough group, even for as much as we're poo pooing like the last spot and the flexibility of it. Like Pascal Siakam is an all star level player regardless of whether he makes an all star team or not. Jalen Johnson is getting to that point, but I think is coming up just short. And so even though we're comparing front court and back court, I look also at what are you relative to the standards of your position, what are you relative to the peers who you are guarding and being guarded by. And that's one area in which I think Trey might just have a slight edge over Jalen Johnson.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yep. I Hear that? Anybody else on the very long list we need to nominate here?

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't think we talked about Jared Allen a lot, and he could make the All Star team.

[Big Waz]

Team.

[Rob Mahoney]

Like, I wouldn't be surprised if that last front court reserve spot goes to Jared Allen.

[Big Waz]

Just off of respect for what these guys have done to start the year. And coaches want to, you know, and this is part of how you, you know, show deference to the coach of the, of the team. Right? Like, this guy is, he's, he's definitely one of their best players in terms of one of the best forwards in the. In forwards or center, whichever one him or Mobley are playing. I never really know. He's. He's one of the best. I just, Just go look at his numbers, man. Those ain't All Star numbers, guys. We not gonna Jamal McGlord this thing this year. We can't.

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, come on. It's not, that's not, that's not the case.

[Big Waz]

We're not doing it, Rob.

[Rob Mahoney]

What? 73% true shooting. Those aren't. That's not an All Star number. I, I, I agree with you, but I am fascinated to find out how the coaches in particular, parse out responsibility and credit for the Cavs and whether they were.

[Logan Murdoch]

They.

[Rob Mahoney]

I could see, I could see any of those four guys getting in. I could see those guys getting for.

[Big Waz]

Them to do that, you know, certainly.

[Logan Murdoch]

God, just.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, you almost got there.

[Big Waz]

I mean, he definitely was like, in terms of the, the last forward spot, he definitely was on the short list. But, like, my last guy out is Siakam for sure. You know, like, like Siakam is the one that barely missed the Cusp. But Jared Allen, you know, again, he's part of a team that's smoking everybody in the NBA. I gotta consider the guy.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yep.

[Logan Murdoch]

If they put all four on the court at the same time and they, they run a play from the Cavs playbook. I'm turning the TV off. You're out. I'm just, I'm out. That was such a corny disrespectful to, like, the spirit of All Star moment that, like, we cannot go back. What is throwing it off the backboard, like, just alley oops off the ground, like. Yeah. No, no plays. No, no set. Just, like, pin downs for Kyle. This is so ridiculous.

[Rob Mahoney]

I disagree. Put Ty Jerome in the skills challenge. That's what I say. Let Dean wait. Shoot.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah. Anybody else? We mentioned, like, I have Trey, Lamelo, Halliburton. I mean, I guess Paulo deserves deep, deep. He Would he would have been there Consideration? Yeah, he would have been there.

[Big Waz]

He would have been there if he was able to play Maxi. That was it. Paul George ain't there Maxi.

[Rob Mahoney]

One kind of complicated case. I think Scotty Barnes is basically having a similar season to the one he did last year when he was an all star.

[Big Waz]

I couldn't get there with.

[Rob Mahoney]

I, I agree with you. And I couldn't quite get there with the Raptors in the way that I could with Lamelo and the Hornets, for example. I don't think he's been at that.

[Logan Murdoch]

I almost feel like we need to re rank the that draft class yet again. Like every two weeks we just re rank the 20, 21 draft class between Scotty Barnes, Kate Cunningham, Evan Mobley.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm feeling pretty good about. I think I had Franz number one. Mobley too. I'm feeling pretty good about that.

[Logan Murdoch]

Okay, you're sticking.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm sticking to that.

[Logan Murdoch]

I think I had Barnes one last time and I'm.

[Big Waz]

Jade is knocking on Barnes is really good play. He not in that top tier discussion.

[Rob Mahoney]

He's. He's in the discussion.

[Logan Murdoch]

He's in the top four for sure.

[Big Waz]

You really rather have him than Cade Cunningham? Really?

[Rob Mahoney]

I think, I think it's a fair conversation. I think Kate is more straightforward in terms of what he does and how you build a team around him. And despite that, the Pistons couldn't do it for several years. Scotty Barnes, I would say look at who the Raptors are rolling on the court these days. It's guys who are trying, they're trying their hardest. But it's not great, right? Sometimes in basketball, 30 points could be worth more than 30 points. And now you get a 30% profit boost from the Ringer with Fanduels 30 on 30 during Friday's NBA action. That's right. The ringer's teaming up with America's number one sportsbook to give you a 30% profit boost when you either pick a player to score more than 30 points or bet on our new exclusive 30 on 30. Special markets like any game to have Both teams score 30 plus points in the first quarter. Just looking at Friday's slate, there's a lot to like in particular for the Grizzlies going against the Pelicans. I love Jaren Jackson Jr. To go off for 30 plus points. Not the most obvious candidate. John Morant on the floor. Desmond Bain on the floor. You would think one of those guys might also go off. But guess what? The Pelicans front court is in shambles. Jaren Jackson Jr. Is more versatile than ever. He's been scoring like crazy this season. He's a great pick for this. And whether you want to ride with my pick or make your own, just look to 30 on 30 in the FanDuel Sportsbook app or head to FanDuel.com RingernBA for your chance to score a bigger payout this Friday. Don't miss your chance to find out how much 30 can be worth with FanDuel's 30 on 30 must be 21 plus and present in select states or 18 and present in DC. Opt in required bonus issued is non withdrawable profit boost Tokens restrictions apply including any token expiration and max wager amount. See [e-mail] Gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com this episode.

[Logan Murdoch]

Is brought to you by GNC at GNC. Nutrition isn't just a department, it's the whole store. Nutrition for bigger gains. Sculpting that revenge body and to have you feeling like you're ready to go. GNC spent 90 years perfecting nutrition and protein that literally tastes like cake. So you can look like cake. You got goals. GNC has results. Visit your local GNC store or shop [e-mail] this episode is brought to you by Amazon Business. It's no secret that we could all use a little more time in our lives. Thankfully, Amazon Business offers smart business buying solutions so you can spend more time growing your business and less time doing the admin. I can see why they call it smart. Visit business.Amazon.com to learn more. This episode is brought to you by Indeed. Successful season starts with picking the right players for your team. Like with the Boston Celtics, they've been able to put together a pretty good roster. Pretty deep superstar driven two way players. They've got it right. And so if you want to hire the best players for your business and quickly, you need Indeed. Their sponsored jobs help you stand out and reach relevant candidates faster. Plus, with Indeed sponsored jobs, there are no monthly subscriptions, no long term contracts and you only pay for results. There's no need to wait any longer. Speed up your hiring right now with Indeed. Listeners of the show will get a $75 sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility@ Indeed.com RingerMBA that's Indeed.com RingerMBA right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.comringermba Terms and conditions apply. Hiring Indeed is all you need. All right, let's Take off time. We've waited very long. Two episodes in entire week. The audience has been clamoring. They've been writing in, they've been setting letters. No, they haven't done any of that. The rules are as follows. Just get a takeoff. No conventional wisdom. Just pure takes here. Best take wins. Mano y mano. Waz versus Rob Part one. Who wants to go first?

[Rob Mahoney]

And Justin, you are the sole arbiter. Right. Of. Of who has the superior take.

[Logan Murdoch]

That's right. It should be in our democracy.

[Rob Mahoney]

You know what? Considering that I did not come with my take last time, I will go first. I'm going to give Woz home court advantage here to. To respond.

[Big Waz]

Okay?

[Rob Mahoney]

My take, my take is this. Double teaming is not only for cowards. You just shouldn't do it literally ever. Never double team anybody.

[Big Waz]

Wow.

[Rob Mahoney]

Ever.

[Logan Murdoch]

The Devin Booker.

[Rob Mahoney]

The Devin Booker was right. Anthony Edwards was right. These guys were right. Here is my. This is the dumbest thing that I genuinely actually do believe. NBA players are amazing scorers. We know they can score one on one. Great. I think all of the biggest problems for a defense come from overreaction. They come from the exact Will Hardy, Carl Anthony Towns thing you described, Justin. What how powerful and scary it feels when guys are popping out when they're hitting these spot up threes, when you have this motion to the offense. And if a team could play truly without ego, what they would do is let one dude on the other team try to score 60 every night and basically tire themselves out in the process. It's a little bit of a Homer Simpson, like let them punch you so much that they get exhausted strategy. But I genuinely think it would work and I genuinely think it would work because other offenses now operate at such a high level of efficiency that. What are you going to do? Like the NBA average right now is 113 points a game. I know it's not going to be just, you know, James Harden trying to score every trip down the floor. Donovan Mitchell trying to score every trip down the floor. But if you don't help, I think the strategy is literally never allow a spot up 3. Stay home on every single shooter. I'm not rotating over to give you any dunks or lobs. Donovan Mitchell, if you want to try to score as many of 113 points as you can in your minutes and then Darius Garland will come in and do some, and then Evan Mobley will come in and do some, I'm all for it, but I'm going to shoot threes. And I think this is how you bend the math of the modern game is I get to take spot up threes because I'm just going to play. And you can do whatever you want on defense to play in your normal shell. But guess what? I'm just not going to allow you to do that unless you want to pull up.

[Big Waz]

Here's the question.

[Logan Murdoch]

Passing load.

[Rob Mahoney]

Passing's allowed. But it's like. But you're going to have to go one on one against somebody. And I. My defense is not going to help or double under any circumstances.

[Big Waz]

So wait, but in this scenario, fouls are still a thing, right?

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, they could be.

[Big Waz]

That could be filed out of NBA games, right?

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, sure, yeah. I think ultimately it probably behooves you if you adopt this strategy to take a bit of a Mike D'Antoni Phoenix Suns bent and give. You don't just take the foul. To take the foul. Sometimes you got to let a guy go by and live to fight another day. And you got to keep your defenders in the game. You got to keep your defenders from getting fouled out. Like that's a really crucial thing. I think you would have to have a roster that is pretty switchable to contain a lot of these actions. My goal is basically never allow two defenders to the ball. Never allow a double team a help on a screen. I'm switching everything. I'm living with the consequences. And we're going to see what happens when my team gets to take threes. And you have to live and die with pull ups. You have to live and die with stars. Admittedly hard driving every single trip down the floor, floor.

[Logan Murdoch]

So it's just ISO ball every single possession.

[Rob Mahoney]

But here's the thing. You play ISO ball, I'm just going to play normal NBA offense unless you want to come into the pit with me.

[Big Waz]

Okay, I know, but like it just, I don't know, like. So we're not switching screens either? Like.

[Rob Mahoney]

No, I am. I'm switching. I'm just never bringing two to the ball.

[Big Waz]

We're switching. We're switching everything and never sending help.

[Rob Mahoney]

Never sending help.

[Big Waz]

Who draws the switch?

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't care who it is.

[Logan Murdoch]

Core illegal defense, basically. So we're going from zone to just no helping whatsoever. So yeah, we're abolishing it.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm not. I'm not saying the league needs to abolish it. I'm saying if I'm an NBA coach, this is what I want to do.

[Big Waz]

Yeah, just strictly if. Let's just say. Let's just say for whatever reason you're Playing the Memphis Grizzlies and, and oh, I don't know, clinging ends up switched on to John Morant, then so be it.

[Rob Mahoney]

So be it.

[Big Waz]

John Morant's just going to score a bunch of layups all game.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yep.

[Big Waz]

And that's fine.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yep.

[Logan Murdoch]

See, I like that's how many.

[Rob Mahoney]

Guess how many layups he's not going to score. 60, which is how many he would need to win.

[Big Waz]

Yeah. I like the players are too smart about drawing fouls. That's the only problem with that. They're going to draw fouls, they're going to get fouls. You're going to your best players that you think you're going to do your efficient offense with on the other end are going to be in fou.

[Rob Mahoney]

That could be a problem.

[Big Waz]

That's where I have that problem.

[Logan Murdoch]

I will say it's a strong start. I'm proud of you. I liked it a little bit more if it was a league wide thing. If you were saying that we need to just make it a hard and fast NBA wide rule. But you're saying it's just more of a strategy thing.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm saying that in the modern NBA where offenses are capable of what the Celtics are capable of, that kind of drive and kick action, all generating all of those open threes off of kickouts.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

This is the new frontier is you take away literally every kick out. You take away literally every dump off pass to someone in the dunker spot, every lob. Jason Tatum. You have to do literally everything if you want your team to win. Or Jalen, like obviously guys are going to trade off. It's not going to be one star the entire time. But the far the more they trade down the list, the more it's Drew Holiday trying to create one on one, the more we win.

[Logan Murdoch]

Okay. Compelling mad at a lot. A lot to consider there. Okay.

[Big Waz]

Was so I, you know, just doing my regular league pass thing and. And I did have Justin's hot take in my mind. And I was watching the Memphis Grizzlies and I came to the conclusion that Adam Silver, his partners in the league, need to let bygones be bygones and make Ja Morant the face of the league again.

[Rob Mahoney]

Ooh.

[Big Waz]

Get this Wemby shit out of here. Aunt Edwards. Fuck out of here. I get it. Nice fun young guys. The old dudes. Steph Curry, LeBron, KD. All you old fogies get out of here. Clear out. Nike NBA. Make this kid the face of the league. Because I swear to God, when this guy dunked On Wemby's head the other day, I saw the heavens and the earths and Satan. I saw it all. You put your eyes. The meaning of life was revealed to me. Me in that moment, dude, when I'm just like, this is it. This is the person who was most consistently electrifying us with this spontaneity. Like, all this stuff about, oh, the sameness, the oneness of the NBA, the three point shooting, the blah, blah, blah. John Morant answers all of that. He is the most creative player in the league. He's the most spontaneous player in the league. Like, there's just nothing like what he does. He's so, so different. He's so singular. And we were on that path before the issues happened. And I think, look, this country, we believe in a redemption story. Build you up, break you down so we could build you up again. Let's build John Moran up again. Okay? All these other people, get the hell out the way. I love Anthony Edwards. I love. I even love women. Yama. Now, okay? I love these guys, the old fogies. He's been loving them my whole life. Get him out of here. It's Ja Moran. And it's not just his individual game. Memphis Grizzlies, as a collective, make for compelling NBA product. They everybody off. They make rivalries. Every fucking arena they go into because they're so nasty and ornery. And so it's not just him individually. His team gets people pissed off. The best kind of basketball physicality. Guys giving hard fouls, guys drawing at each other, circling the dates on the calendar. This is it. This is what we should be following, y'all. John Morant, man. David. Adam Silver. David Stern, come back from the grave. Adam Silver, Push the button on this kid you got.

[Rob Mahoney]

You mentioned, you know, since he came back from his issues. Would you like to outline what any of those situations were or what led us to beat up.

[Big Waz]

He beat up a high schooler.

[Rob Mahoney]

Okay.

[Big Waz]

He assaulted a high schooler in his own backyard.

[Rob Mahoney]

He.

[Big Waz]

He put. He put guns on Instagram, flashed his weapon on Instagram live multiple occasions.

[Rob Mahoney]

Y.

[Big Waz]

One of his boys, after a game, put a red beam in the Pacers bus. I think it was. What else?

[Logan Murdoch]

Allegedly. Again, all allegedly.

[Rob Mahoney]

Allegedly.

[Big Waz]

What else did we have here? I might be forgetting the strip club.

[Logan Murdoch]

Was the big one.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Big Waz]

Oh, yes, the strip club incident, man. Yeah, he's. He's. He's had. He's had a decent amount of. Of situations. Not to mention my sauces. Tell me this guy, he love to party, boy. Lord have mercy. John Moran ain't never seen a party he ain't want to pull up to.

[Logan Murdoch]

Oh, one time for a couple days and had a. Had a vacation. And that was supposed to solve all.

[Big Waz]

That being said, that never stopped our stars from yesteryear from being stars and being the faces of the league. This kind of shit only became a problem recently. This is just what NBA players did in the past. They weren't these hyper, disciplined, oh, I stay home, I'm a perfect corporate sponsor, blah, blah. They weren't these people in the past. And we grew a beautiful league out of it. Let Ja be Ja. It'll be fine. The people will follow. Push the button on this kid, please. Thank you.

[Rob Mahoney]

Look, we all love watching John Morant play basketball. I am incredibly pro. Grizzlies overall, really fun team, really good team that frankly could win the Western Conference this year. You were proposing a world, Woz, in which camera phones do not exist, in which we have a star who's a face of the league who frankly, like, has not shown he can acclimate himself to public life in the way that the face of the league might need to. To Steph and LeBron, they've lived in this era, too. Those guys are by all relative, but relatively speaking, squeaky clean in terms of their public reputations. Not saying they've never done a bad thing in their life, but they're not at the John Morant level. And also, I think one critical thing here, they have won more than one playoff series in their NBA careers. And so for anointing anybody, I didn't.

[Big Waz]

Say this was a bulletproof case. It's a hot take.

[Rob Mahoney]

It is a take.

[Logan Murdoch]

I do like this as almost like a carrying on Jordan's tradition though. Like, because what was Jordan if not late night competitor, but also a big old gambler, even during a playoff series? So I like that as well. Also, like, you know Allen Iverson?

[Big Waz]

You guys heard of Allen Iverson?

[Logan Murdoch]

Oh, yeah. Like the gossip rags, you know, they love like a celebrity who's in turmoil, like the Paris Hilton's of the world, you know, the Benefers. Like, could Job be our Benefer? That's compelling as well.

[Rob Mahoney]

Could Job be our Benefer?

[Big Waz]

Is this pod title Ways than you think, by the way. But we won't get into that.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, I don't know what that means.

[Big Waz]

We won't get into that. We won't get into that. The people that's listening know what the hell I'm talking about. Trust me.

[Rob Mahoney]

Do they?

[Logan Murdoch]

Okay. My worry with Ja is Just like, you know, he just hasn't been playing a lot. The dings and the dents, you know, they do pile up and it's just like every week.

[Big Waz]

He's got to be present for sure.

[Rob Mahoney]

There is a void there.

[Logan Murdoch]

The thing we love about him is he is a crash test dummy, basically, when he plays on the floor. But he's going to crash because he's a beast.

[Rob Mahoney]

Pretty small. He. He is doing shit on a nightly basis that literally no one else is doing. And so if anyone is the, the, like the must see ticket of the league right now, it is John Moran. I just think of it as more of like, like Blake Griffin's like, rookie season when it was like everyone was watching the Clippers all the time because of the acrobatic nature of how they were playing.

[Big Waz]

The.

[Rob Mahoney]

The Grizzlies are much better than that. But in terms of the pure aesthetic appeal, it feels more like, oh, this is for the Die Hards than it is, oh, this is for, you know, the, the casual fans out there.

[Big Waz]

You don't think so? No, because it's not just the dunking on people. It's the handle, it's the passing.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's true.

[Big Waz]

It's multi dimensional. What makes his game special is not just dunks. Like, this isn't, you know, freaking Desmond Mason Jr. We're talking about here, guys. Like, this guy is a dynamic Hooper, okay? And again, it's the. It crossed the hell out of. You got people falling on the floor multiple times. And the court vision. His court vision is again, the most underrated aspect of his game. This guy will dime you up, okay? And. Yeah, and that's just. And that's the thing too. And again, I don't want to denigrate Victor Weminyama and the appeal of his game, but he is 7 foot 4. It's taken away, you know, like, my brother hit me. My older brother. Look, he's. He's an older guy, but he's like, if I was 7 4, I could do that shit.

[Rob Mahoney]

Now we know where you get it was.

[Big Waz]

Now we know where it comes from. But I think to the average fan, there is an element of that. Like, Wemby is so physically freakish, right? Like, when he does catch an alley oop, it looks like somebody's just placing something into their trash bin, you know, so effortless. Whereas Jod just does look electrifying.

[Logan Murdoch]

All right, I have my official score here.

[Rob Mahoney]

Okay?

[Logan Murdoch]

Rob's take, very compelling, very creative. I appreciate the effort he put into it. Unfortunately, the penalties have piled up because you missed last week. And so Woz wins by default. Waz is the winner of the first takeoff. Congratulations, Waz.

[Rob Mahoney]

This is fucked up.

[Big Waz]

Thank you, man. Thank you. I would like to thank my brother. I would like to thank my New York City upbringing, man, where people in your barbershop and on your block are always just saying the craziest things about everything. And I just want to thank York and my brother for this victory, man.

[Logan Murdoch]

Thank you, Toaz's brother, and thank you guys for participating. This was, this was fun. We'll do it again sometime. Thank you also to Isaiah Blakely on production. Thank you to Ben Cruz. We'll be back on Monday. We'll talk to you then.

[Big Waz]

Foreign.

[Logan Murdoch]

88-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or 800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts exits or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text HOPE NY in New York.