← The Ringer NBA Show
The Ringer NBA Show
Free Agency Bonanza, Day 1! Cam Johnson Traded to Denver, the Lakers Are Adrift, and More. | Group Chat
01:14:58
Loading summary
Transcript283 lines
- [00:01]
Justin Barrier
This episode is brought to you by Hyundai. Meet the Ioniq 9. Hyundai's first three row all electric EV. Yep, space in an EV. Finally. And with over 300 miles of range and ultra fast charging capability, you won't only experience more room, but more freedom. Learn more about the Ioniq 9@Hyundai USA.com call 562-314-4603 for complete details. Hello and welcome to Group Chat. I am Justin Barrier and joining me on day one of this free agency bonanza, Rob Mahoney, Big Woz. I have drank like what, four cups of coffee? Just making hot dogs on a stove like a fucking degenerate. We're out here, man, just grinding those Dennis Schroeder transaction tweets. We love it.
- [00:59]
Rob Mahoney
I'm honestly, you know, aside from the player movement. Oh, this guy's on a new team. These guys have gotten better. I am into the graphics game. It's pretty interesting because dmvr, my guy Adam Mares over in Denver and the crew over there, they just straight lifted Shams graphic and just put it on their Instagram, right? And it just says breaking with a guy's picture on it. I'm like, okay, Bruce Brown. But then I just gotta read their actual caption on the IG post. It's like, it's interesting how people are handling the social mediafication of every single. Whether it's big or small transactions. Just fun watching it play out in real time.
- [01:50]
Big Woz
So you just want to call out the crew at dnvr and are we, are we sure as we're doing this that they even did that in the first place? Because Bruce Brown to the Nuggets has been discussed widely over the last couple of weeks. It's. It seems possible they might have photoshopped it themselves.
- [02:04]
Justin Barrier
Well, I mean, painting perhaps?
- [02:06]
Big Woz
Oh yeah.
- [02:06]
Rob Mahoney
I mean, I'm not somebody who thinks it's like not fair use to take the picture from Sean's post. Like, are you kidding me? Like, if that's the quickest, easiest way to do it, by all means.
- [02:17]
Big Woz
Sampling, really?
- [02:18]
Rob Mahoney
Yes, exactly.
- [02:19]
Justin Barrier
Well, speaking of sampling, I think I also saw some AI being used pretty, pretty loosely, I would say. So there's a real graphics war going on here. But glad to see it because God forbid we even read tweets anymore.
- [02:32]
Rob Mahoney
I know.
- [02:33]
Justin Barrier
Can't even read articles. We're at the point where we're just.
- [02:35]
Rob Mahoney
Gotta look at the picture, the full.
- [02:37]
Justin Barrier
Details on the tweets.
- [02:38]
Big Woz
You just gotta see Luke Cornette in a Spurs jersey and count how many fingers he has to make. Sure, that AI did make up a fake rumor right in front of you, but this is the world we live in. You know, our heads are spinning. I'm trying to figure out where Luca Garza is. You know, that's just the world that we live in now.
- [02:54]
Justin Barrier
This episode is brought to you by State Farm. On the basketball court, the best players know when to pass. And off the court, you still need teammates who are there when it counts. That's where State Farm comes in. With agents and online tools to help you find the coverage you need, you can focus on what really matters, whether that's hitting game winners or just getting through the day. State Farm with the assist. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability and eligibility vary by state. So we're recording this about 6:30pm PT. I think we kind of all assume that the first wave of transactions, even though they came a little slower than they typically do, we got like a half hour of like a grace period. Then they came rapid fire from our guy Shams. We're going to get through all of the most exciting ones. But. But the first one that we have to talk about isn't a free agent signing. It was actually a trade with Woz's Denver Nuggets. We got MPJ Michael Porter Jr. In a 2032 unprotected first round pick going to the Nets for Cam Johnson and was. This is interesting to me for a lot of reasons, but first and foremost, it seems like if you were to just take away all of this stuff that potentially made Michael Porter Jr. Special but ultimately probably made him maddening to the Nuggets, I think you'd end up somewhere in the approximation of Cam Johnson. So you really got more reliable, less tall, but less expensive. Ultimately Cam Johnson, which as we've seen, or excuse me, Michael Porter Jr. Which we've seen, is a pretty good fit when he's plugged in.
- [04:22]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, I mean, Michael Porter Jr. Is definitely a more talented player than Cam Johnson in terms of his size. Obviously is just as good a shooter as there is in the NBA when he's able to, able to get that shot off. But I think that's about where the advantages on the Michael Porter Jr side ends. He's way more overpaid. Well, Cam Johnson's not overpaid. He's fairly paid. Also, we talk about the injury history all the time. Although he's been reasonably durable. I just think honestly in terms of the style that the, the Nuggets want to play, Cam Johnson is better suited to playing that style. In terms of the movement with and without the ball. Let's face it, Michael Porter Jr. Not the best dribbler. I'm not saying Cam Johnson is some, like, wizard and he's going to be putting it, you know, to the deck and like becoming some amazing closeout attacker. But like, for what Denver needs him to do, he is more than qualified to put the ball on the deck, take that one step, pull up, or move the rock. And defensively, again, he's a smaller player than mpj, but he's just got a way better motor. That's just the truth.
- [05:42]
Big Woz
Does he?
- [05:42]
Rob Mahoney
He does. He does. I'm not, I know we're past the point in Phoenix where we were calling this guy 3&D. I'm not going there. Notice how they say he's a three and D wing.
- [05:53]
Big Woz
If you're out here about to blog about this trade and call Cam Johnson a 3&D player, please do. And I say that with, with great admiration.
- [06:03]
Justin Barrier
Now, you can't be a three and D guy like that.
- [06:05]
Big Woz
Oh, no, no, no, no, you can't.
- [06:07]
Rob Mahoney
You can be Justin, but he's not.
- [06:09]
Big Woz
He doesn't D, he doesn't D like that.
- [06:11]
Rob Mahoney
He threes though.
- [06:12]
Big Woz
He does three. There's no question about the threes. I, I, I think I'm more aligned with the way Justin laid this out, which is if you're gonna find someone similar enough to Michael Porter Jr. This is about as good as you're gonna get, especially for half the price. Jesus Christ. Like the opening of cutting the salary almost in half, opening up the mid level exception potentially in the process. And we'll see if Denver actually does anything with that spending ability, that's really exciting. And to have that come on the same day that you've brought in Bruce Brown for the minimum now, now you're starting to see like a momentum to Denver's off season that, to be totally honest, I wasn't sure was going to be here. I thought we might have a slow day for the Nuggets in which we're trying to parse, you know, what's left of the market for them to kind of scoop up. Are they going to bring Russell Westbrook back? All those conversations that we might have had in another universe. Instead they do something really exciting in bringing in a similar enough shooter, a similar enough player, someone who I'd say is like, maybe a touch more dynamic as a movement player off the ball than Michael Porter is, but you do trade off some of that, like all, all world level shooting for merely one of the better Shooters in the league like that dip is not insignificant but for a team in the Nuggets position is well worth it for ultimately the long term reliability, although as you alluded to was like Michael Porter Jr. Has been healthy for the last two years these last playoffs accepted. Ultimately you're just getting a player who I think is a little bit more rock solid in the way you want to play the direction of the team over a longer term. And we'll see how long he figures into the Nuggets plans. But it's just. It's a really exciting move for a team that felt like they were kind of stuck in a corner.
- [07:48]
Justin Barrier
Yeah, the numbers like the raw stat lines for both of them last year are startling similar. Like it's basically 18 points. MPJ is a better rebounder 7 to 4. But Cam's a little bit better on the assists 3 to 2 basically. But they shot 39% on high volume. 7.2 for Cam Johnson MPJ 6.4. The money is quite literally half. 79 million for MPJ over the next two years versus Cam Johnson 44 million. But you're right Rob. It's just like I think at a certain point just maybe the frills ultimately ended up being too. Added too much consternation. Added too much. They got the blood pumping a little too hard for kind of the principles with Denver and to just have that no longer there to not have to worry about whether or not MPJ's mood is going to affect his defense. His. His ability to hustle after stuff I think is going to be addition by subtraction. But I have to say was on the net side of things. Buying low on MPJ is not a bad person to do so if only because like maybe you can unearth some of those better things and then have him going forward because he is still young and then you get the plum 2032 draft pick on top of it. That is the real price here where it's 2032 when Nikola Jokic is going to be 37 years old. Like most likely or not, that's going to be a good pick even if you trade it to someone else before you even get there.
- [09:11]
Rob Mahoney
I will choose not to see this as an MPJ bilo and a cash in your Cam Johnson. One of the most coveted available guys trade chips like in the league. We thought he was leaving last All Star break. Excuse me last trade deadline ends up being this this summer instead and getting yeah that's a plum pick. Like you gotta you know that Jokic is even if he's still on the team, he's gonna be in a far diminished capacity than what he is today, which is the best guy in the NBA. So kudos to them for doing that. I just, you know, I think we've seen everything. MPJ is going to be in this league. Um, and I. I feel pretty confident in that. Like, the idea. Cause, like, there's this idea that MPJ is a gunner and in a different context, like, he'd be allowed to spread his wings and do more. And I'm telling y' all, bro, like, MPJ is not gonna become some great offensive hub cook people with off the dribble. And like, he's not.
- [10:17]
Justin Barrier
What if he does the same exact things that he does now, just not being hurt in the playoffs, he has two available arms in order to do what he typically does. Or I think the question is, does he then take this opportunity where there are shots aplenty with Brooklyn and actually indulge his worst impulses? And this is actually the worst possible scenario for mpj.
- [10:37]
Rob Mahoney
That feels close. That feels closer to what I think is going to happen. Like MPJ being a high volume, efficient scorer on this Brooklyn Nets team, Like, who's going to help him do that?
- [10:49]
Justin Barrier
He's going to.
- [10:50]
Rob Mahoney
Is.
- [10:51]
Justin Barrier
Is going to be Danny Wolf, one of their five first round picks.
- [10:55]
Rob Mahoney
This is the thing.
- [10:55]
Big Woz
What if instead of Nicola Jokic, you just stacked up five draft picks who could pass and they are the ones passing the ball to mpj?
- [11:01]
Rob Mahoney
He's going to have to do it on his own. Like, I've just never seen. Seen that from MPJ that consistently he could be a high volume, high efficiency scorer in the NBA. And so, yeah, y' all know how I feel about mpj. I felt like this was about four or five years now. So, yeah, this next thing is going to test the theories of every MPJ opinion that's ever been had.
- [11:27]
Big Woz
Honestly, I. I really like who Michael Porter was as a Denver nugget, and we should say proven NBA champion. Michael defensible in.
- [11:36]
Rob Mahoney
In. In 2023, for sure.
- [11:38]
Big Woz
Huge against the Lakers, huge in that run. Has had amazing moments for Denver in. In several different playoff capacities. Like, he did his job. He just had a very expensive contract that limited them in some ways in terms of trying to improve their team and left him vulnerable to this kind of deal where he gets shipped off to a team of no consequence whatsoever in the Brooklyn Nets, a team that is going to be finding itself, I think, for years to come. Ultimately, in terms of what kind of team they want to be. And in the meantime, I hear everything you're saying was. And yet I am perhaps perversely a little curious as far as like what MPJ as a net is going to be. I don't think he's going to be amazing. And I think ultimately you and I are in alignment on this. What limits you as a scorer. And the reason why Michael Porter Jr. Is not going to be some breakout star of the 20, 25, 26 season is if you don't have the handle, you can't expand your ability to create shots like that. That really is what it is.
- [12:30]
Rob Mahoney
Create space. Rob, he can't do it on his own. He cannot get space by itself. Sometimes he's bigger than a guy, like much bigger than a guy. And he could kind of, all right, create a little bit of space and it doesn't matter. He's so much bigger, but like a credible defender. And that dude just straight up. All right, I'm breaking you down.
- [12:47]
Big Woz
It's no.
- [12:48]
Rob Mahoney
Is this going to be a bunch of 30 foot step backs?
- [12:50]
Big Woz
That part is true. Okay, Justin.
- [12:52]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [12:52]
Justin Barrier
Here's the other part of this too, is that the Nets Runway to be bad is shorter than you'd expect because they only got two draft picks back or control of two of their own draft picks back. And in that swap with the Rockets last year, it was this year and it was next year. And so really they need guys to be available for when they do take a big swing. If they trade for Giannis tomorrow, there really wasn't much to go with him. If you can have MPJ suffer through the contract he's on now, maybe he shows himself to be that same player. He's still young, as I mentioned, and you just get him on a lower amount for that next version. I think there's some like, logic to taking the brunt of it now to pay it off later that could be valuable.
- [13:36]
Big Woz
I think that's absolutely true. And here's the thing about Michael Porter too, where he doesn't have that handle, where he's going to be a creative star in the way that again, star is loose in this definition. But even someone like Cam Thomas can be right in terms of like just having the juice to generate offense for himself. That's not who he is. Michael Porter Jr. Though, is one of the best and most accomplished contested three point shooters in the league because of that size, because of that height. Like, he doesn't need a Nicole Jokic level pass in order to knock down a shot. And so playing in a Different environment. I mean, look, he's going to get shots up just by virtue of the roster that they have laid out because of who he is as a person. I hope he doesn't take the wrong lessons from his time as a Brooklyn Net. As we have seen, you know, Jeremy Grant's of times past, as they kind of venture onward to other teams and try to spread their wings as like an offensive creator or star and ultimately fall into this weird, like, neither fish nor foul kind of zone where they like, aren't the kind of player that they need to be to be a high level role player anymore or kind of a supporting star anymore. I certainly don't want that. I have no idea where this is going to go. That. That seems exciting to me. That seems interesting to see the experiment play out in real time.
- [14:45]
Rob Mahoney
I just think on. I just think on a hoops level. Okay. CAM Johnson averaged 60% more assists on the Brooklyn Nets.
- [14:57]
Big Woz
Yeah.
- [14:58]
Rob Mahoney
Than MPJ did on the Nuggets. That's fucking insane.
- [15:03]
Big Woz
I mean, that's by virtue of who has the ball. Like, who has the ball for the Nuggets. It's not Michael Porter Jr. Until it's time to shoot.
- [15:10]
Rob Mahoney
I mean, it's like. But there's a reason you don't have the ball.
- [15:14]
Big Woz
Completely. Completely. There are guys you do not pass it to unless it's time to shoot.
- [15:19]
Rob Mahoney
And that is Michael Porter Jr. That's all I'm saying. Just in terms of how the team wants to play, you know, they don't want to be this, dump it into Jokic, let him cook, you know, chew up 40% usage. They don't want to be like that. They want to be a more distributive type of team. And so, yeah, I just think this guy's just way more suited to that task than MPJ was. And, you know, and again, because MPJ was so limited at some of the star stuff, quote, unquote, he's just overpaid as hell to be doing what Denver really needed him to do.
- [15:58]
Justin Barrier
That's fair. Yeah. And as we've seen time and time again with the Nuggets the past two seasons, it's not necessarily that they needed star level talents. They just needed consistent production, not only bodies, but guys to do the same thing over and over again. I think they kind of got that in Johnson, and again, they got that with our guy, Brucey B. Who is, I would want to say, putting on the cowboy hat and mosing his way down to Denver, but he probably is already wearing one right now as he's signing the contract, never took it off, was going back to the bank of Jokic probably isn't a good idea for a guy who has, you know, struggled to find himself since then, but clearly he knows how to play off of Jokic.
- [16:35]
Rob Mahoney
He's gotten into some spats. I heard there was issues with Toronto with certain guys on the team and whatever it happens, I just think obviously he was there two years ago, knows exactly what is going to be asked of him and has just a deep familiarity with the main cogs on the team. And so whether that be Gordon Jokic and of course Jamal Murray, I think they struggled in the non Murray minutes of who could be like a sort of secondary ball handler type. Bruce Brown does that perfectly, but he also can just be a cog in the machine that just doesn't use the ball at all. Just incredible transition player. Will make a wide open three point shot, take it with confidence. Just quality defender, if not some all world kind of guy, but just not a sieve on that end. Can't just be relentlessly exploited. He's just so obvious what they needed and you know, in terms of what they needed like yo, we need like credible role players, credible minutes eaters and he's another guy to add to that talent.
- [17:43]
Big Woz
I just think the list of players who are going to be available this summer by trade or for agency, who could both fill those minutes without Murray and potentially play with the starters plugging in with that group is a much shorter list than you might imagine. Like there just aren't that many like well rounded guards with those kinds of skill sets. And guess what? We've seen Bruce Brown do literally all of that stuff before. Not only is he familiar with how they play and you know, like, you know there's going to be some changes over time with David Adelman, but all these guys trust him. There's no like learning curve where we have to figure out, you know, where to get Russ the ball to find the pick and roll chemistry. And some of that stuff was pretty effective, you know, especially between Russ and Jokic over the course of last season. This is just easy money as far as like incorporating a significant piece of your rotation goes at a time when the Nuggets don't have like half of a season to waste. The west is going to be super competitive. They're going to need to get these guys rolling, get it going pretty quickly. I would say the only way in which I would pour even a couple of drops of cold water on this is what you mentioned Justin, that it's been like two years since Bruce Brown has been a good and consistently healthy NBA player. It's possible that his best time as a Denver Nugget is already behind him. I hope that's not the case, but I can totally see from Denver's perspective why you would bet on the idea that putting him back in, you know, bringing him back to the Yokich bosom would ultimately be the best for everyone involved.
- [19:02]
Justin Barrier
Yeah, you hope that he plays on a different level or some of those, like, in between skills that he has are just a little bit better when he's playing off of Jokic than he is the corpse of, like, Dejante Murray or like Kelly Olenek. And I would place a pretty high bet that that is indeed the case. But you kind of mentioned it, Rob, that when we looked at this trade probably 20 times during the season and thought like, oh, they trade mpj, it should be to chop him up into two pieces. And it seems like they're doing that just not conventionally. Whereas they trade for Cam Johnson, but they open up the M in order to go get somebody else. We'll see. To me, that is going to have a big bearing on, like, if we're going to grade this trade out, who they ultimately get. As we're recording this, let's talk about Horford, who would be a pretty nice fit in there. Obviously, you have to worry about him in terms of just playing an entire season. You have to probably pace him through at this point, this age of his career, but he ends up being oftentimes the most reliable center in a rotation, like he was in Boston when Kristaps was was sick and whatnot. And so I do think that matters, that next player matters, especially for a team that had four or five guys that they could rely on but was like, I don't know, I'm feeling the Denver juice again. If they could just nail this next move all of a sudden, like, I would probably say they're probably the biggest contender with OKC in the west for sure. Some major thing happening, for sure.
- [20:18]
Rob Mahoney
I'm definitely, you know, feeling way more positive about what they're doing going forward, considering how I was feeling after the freaking owner said he might have to trade Nicola Jokic because of a freaking salary cap rule. And so today feels a lot better.
- [20:35]
Big Woz
Yeah.
- [20:36]
Rob Mahoney
In terms of somebody who, you know, wants to see the Nuggets get better, compete in the west and actually not waste Nicola Jokic, his prime. So, yeah, I'm really excited about what they've done today.
- [20:49]
Big Woz
Not to throw my body in front of a billionaire, but one of the things that Josh Kroenke was talking about as he made those remarks was like because of our injury risk, because of our injury situation, we're leaving our themselves vulnerable to worst case scenarios.
- [21:03]
Rob Mahoney
They definitely improve that situation.
- [21:05]
Big Woz
That's the thing. They, they certainly have done that. And, and if they use this to get deeper, they're also insulating themselves from some of that potential risk as well. I, I think the issue. No, go ahead please.
- [21:15]
Justin Barrier
I was going to say it might diminish Julian Strother's minutes, but I think they could live with that.
- [21:19]
Big Woz
I think they can live with that. The as far as the follow up moves go, like yeah, Al Horford would be great. The bad news for the Nuggets is the center market is already quite picked over and that is the kind of resounding remaining need for them is like who is the backup of combination four or five that you could plug into this group and if you want to get Chris, Chris Boucher on the phone, that sounds wonderful. Other than that I'm not sure like where you're turning for reliable sort of minutes at this stage in the, in the, in terms of like who's available on the market.
- [21:47]
Justin Barrier
Yeah, well there's a team that I think a lot of people would pick as rivaling the Nuggets for that number two spot in the west at least in this off season derby. Based on what we know now, I think it would be the Houston Rockets who somehow not only have roster spots but have money potentially. We, we have to earmark that to come back to for both Dorian Finney Smith and potentially Clint Capella. I thought was that they already had 20 different defensive minded wings on this roster. I guess adding another one in Finney Smith, especially considering the way it handicapped the Lakers. No one's going to like bat an eye at that. It makes the minutes crunch a little more confusing to me. But like Finney Smith is such like a the model of the league average 3 and D wing that you just want and no matter in what situation.
- [22:31]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, I don't think it's so. The reason why I like this deal for Houston is that they're not going to lean on him in the ways that the Lakers tried to or had to. Like I think all of the best four and five man lineups had Dorian Finney Smith in them last season. Pretty insane the degree to which he, they relied on him to keep it together like glue. And I think you saw the shortcomings of that idea in the playoffs, right when they went up against the Wolves. And so I don't think he can be a 30 minute player for real. But what I do like, it's like Atari, Eason or any of these other guys. It's like your minutes aren't guaranteed. Okay? Like this guy is going to be rock solid. If not, you know, some kind of world beater in that position. As they slide him up from 4 to 3 depending on the matchup, I'm sure he's going to toggle in terms of where they slot him. IMEI's always been good at that. Um, but in terms of reliability, that's, that's just amazing. Um, the amount of people they know they can count on rotation wise going into next season, it, it, it's just amazing. And you know, you think about it now where now they have two guys that can anchor the offense when the other isn't on the court, right? Like Sengun proved last year that he was the most reliable offensive player on the team and now they have kd and that also unlocks the way they can go out and sort of orient different lineups, man. Like, it doesn't have to be like, all right, we know we're going to guard the hell out of people, but with certain looks, what the hell are we doing on offense? Like is Fred Van Vliet gonna be like taking 30 shots per 36 minutes, you know, depending on the lineup permutations and so yeah, they've made themselves better and deeper with these off season moves. And you know, three years for Finney Smith, for the guy that I saw in the playoffs last year, but it's not a terrible number. And you know, he's a great locker room guy. It's just proven like he's always in the right spot. Every now and again he actually makes shots. So I think this is a great move for the rocks.
- [24:51]
Big Woz
Now and again he actually makes shots, is uncharitable in the playoffs.
- [24:55]
Rob Mahoney
He didn't make a single shot.
- [24:56]
Big Woz
Look, it does have. It happens to all three and D wings, honestly. And that's where, that's where you'll see if you don't have the defense side kind of propping you up and you are that kind of unstable shooter, your value can come and go. Like Dorian Finney Smith, if nothing else is a good team defender, will get after guys and is flexible in the way you described was which I think is so important for this team. Like to me transitioning him from being that kind of player for the Lakers who is essential personnel to part of the mix that can come and go, that can flex in and out, that can play a variety of roles. Like, all of that stuff that you mentioned is so important and I think it relieves so much pressure, not just on Dorian, but on Tari Eason, who's a guy who picks up a lot of injuries. On Kevin Durant from having to play a huge number of minutes in the regular season. Hopefully all these guys can kind of take some of that burden off of each other. Doran Phinney Smith is not creating shots like Kevin Durant. But to your point, if you're playing him with Shangoon, if you're playing him with Fred Van Vliet, there's other lineups that can make sense for the Rockets that don't just bank on KD playing 38 minutes and chucking up shots at volume every single night. There's so many ways for the Rockets to win, and this is a team that was already one of the hardest playing teams in the league last regular season. Now they are also one of the deepest teams in the league. And to see them doing this and Denver doing that at a time where Oklahoma City just won the title and in a way where it's very clear the Thunder are not going anywhere. And you just see these other Western Conference challengers stepping up to the responsibility of like, what do we have to do to fight with these guys? What do we have to do to push the Thunder in ways that they haven't been pushed before? And I think this is one of the ways you do that.
- [26:25]
Justin Barrier
Yeah, I think Finney Smith is ultimately going to be the adult in the room, in the 3 and D wing room, to borrow a football terminology. On the one hand, I appreciate the margin for error that provides this team, and also if they go out and want to swing a big old Giannis trade in the middle of the season, now they have the players just left around in order to stitch things together. Which Finney Smith at this point, having gone to the Nets, having played with Luka in Dallas and now with the Lakers, has more than 10,000 hours of just making things work on the fly for teams that are constantly shuffling through different permutations of their roster. I will say this compounded by the other moves that they made in order to roll back a lot of the guys that you kind of thought would just like be dispersed to other rosters is a little perplexing because in addition to this, you have the extension for Jabari Smith Jr. Who you presume would start at the five. But now all of a sudden you have to wonder. Yeah, at a pretty good number. I believe someone said at the fifth year of that extension he'll be making about what the MLE is. Just to show you how the math and the money is just evolving over time. On the fly here. So It's Jabari Smith Jr. They re signed Jayson Tate. They still have Kim Whitmore just pulling splinters out of his ass. I have to assume that he's got to go somewhere at this point. And you have to start to wonder like one year was fine with this because now you have a lot of guys who aren't getting opportunities. And the good thing that the Thunder have, that the Rockets might have to deal with is like the Thunder have this like pipeline where everyone kind of falls in line and everyone isn't really like pushing for more minutes. If I'm Cam Whitmore, if I'm Reed Shepard, I'm like, what's Aaron Holiday doing getting in the game above me? And so I think they have to worry about that a little bit more because those guys were higher picks and thus more was foretold for them.
- [28:12]
Big Woz
Yeah, I mean, easier said than done in terms of being the Thunder and managing all those players. Like even, even just having someone like Jalen Williams. J. Will, Jalen Williams, who's a rotation worthy player that I think a lot of teams probably could have used if he had decided to test the market this summer. Instead, he re upped with the Thunder. He signed up and has been in a role where he's. He plays in the regular season here and there doesn't in some playoff series. Like, not everyone is cut out for that. Not everyone is cut out to be that sort of role player. If you are someone who could be a definite minutes guy on another team. And like we, we've talked about Cam Whitmore a lot as a, as a prospect we believe in, as a scorer, as someone who could earn and play minutes in a lot of different situations. This Rockets team has a lot to play for now. And whatever is above too many guys is where they are. They have the most guys. They have the most guys of anyone in the league in terms of finding mouths to feed. I think, I think the telling change over there, Justin, is one you zeroed in on, which is the Aaron Holiday to read shepherd minutes. That kind of has to happen just based on how much they've invested in picking Reed and ultimately you would hope the belief that that expresses and who, like, who he can be as a player. Aaron Holiday is perfectly fine. It's also perfectly fine as a third or fourth guard that you call upon at times. And you need Reed shepherd to be a guy ultimately if you're going to keep him on the team. That's kind of the idea that you're continuing to invest in.
- [29:29]
Rob Mahoney
I mean, for me, I'm more looking at the front court minutes where it feels like there's a glut of front court players. Are you. Is your closing lineup KD at the 3 or is it Jabari at the 3?
- [29:47]
Big Woz
Depends on the night.
- [29:48]
Rob Mahoney
You know, on top of Click Capella.
- [29:50]
Justin Barrier
And Steven Adams coming back on an extension and Sengun.
- [29:54]
Rob Mahoney
So like Sengun, kd, Jabari, it might be like, that's, you know, I think those are the things I'll be interested to see. The Jabari deal on his part. To sign that for five years is very interesting. Cause on the one hand, I don't think he's been more productive than Nas Reed. Right.
- [30:20]
Big Woz
But they're different propositions, though. Sure.
- [30:24]
Rob Mahoney
But like, at any point in the playoffs last year, did you think they were equivalent players? No.
- [30:30]
Justin Barrier
I mean, I think Jabari. Jabari definitely has the higher ceiling. And the fact that he was playing nominal three next to those two bigs, I think just speaks to the fact that like, if anything is four, you.
- [30:40]
Rob Mahoney
Were saying he might be a five.
- [30:41]
Big Woz
Like what?
- [30:42]
Rob Mahoney
We don't even know what this kid is.
- [30:44]
Big Woz
No, but that's why you're paying him is because you don't know. I think with Nas, we know who he is and he's a guy who, although he's had great playoff moments, has also had disasters. Oh, yeah.
- [30:53]
Rob Mahoney
He's had terrible games. He's got his.
- [30:55]
Big Woz
Yeah.
- [30:55]
Rob Mahoney
I'm just wondering what they see for Jabari ultimately. It's. It's just confusing for me. Cause, like, they didn't pay you. Right. Um, but like, obviously they didn't tell you to go fish either. They didn't saddle you with like a Jalen Green situation where it was only a three year deal. So I'm just like, what do they see for him in a world where KD is now your best player? These are just fascinating questions to me and I think Imei, who just has credibility with his guys, seems like wherever the hell he's at is going to figure it out. But it's a fascinating question to me.
- [31:32]
Isaiah Blakely
This message is a paid partnership with Apple Card. There's one thing I'm going to make sure I pack for my summer vacation. It's my Apple card. I can earn up to 3% daily cash back on every purchase, including fuel for my car and booking places to stay. Plus, I don't have to worry about fees, including foreign transaction fees, which is perfect when I'm planning to travel abroad. To get an Apple card for your summer travels, apply in the Wallet app on your iPhone today. Subject to credit approval. Apple Card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA, Salt Lake City branch. Variable APRs for Apple Card range from 18.24% to 28.49% based on creditworthiness rates as of January 1, 2025. Terms and more@applecard.com yeah, I think Jabari.
- [32:23]
Justin Barrier
Is in for a prove it year this year and so I was a little weird for him to take the money before he even had an opportunity to do so. We'll see. I ultimately think he's probably I think he's probably best as like a stretch for with the flexibility to guard various positions. Like if for instance, if Giannis came in, I think he would actually make a lot of sense as the four next to him slide Katie to the three nominally and just let him do that. Especially with the men kind of wreaking terror everywhere and like Van Village presumably still being able to get after it defensively. But we'll see. I also think like this rippling into the Lakers side of things is also pretty fascinating here. So Dorian Finney Smith opted out of a $15.4 million player option for next season in order to ultimately sign less on an annual value basis over four years. He took the years, not the money. And so the Lakers as LeBron is making a big show of things about like what are we doing in the future? We'll see. I don't know what they could do with LeBron, but at the very least this deal suggests to me that he may be on to something here. Because while the Lakers are trolling for every center that's available one they haven't gotten anyone yet. As we've recorded this, it's about 7pm PT right now. You presume that they'll get our guy Deandre Ayton to dominate over across the Pacific division, but then now there's this giant gaping hole on the wing because Finney Smith was really your only 3 and D forward I guess Rui. But Rui's more of like a 45 type. I actually think he was best as a small ball 5. They bring in Jake Laravian, a nice little deal but like all of a sudden like the boat is springing holes and so I have to wonder Rob is part of this. The fact that they didn't go out and give him the years. A sign that what their big game plan is is to basically say, luca, pick your team. We're gonna have a sea of cap space as. As soon as, like next summer.
- [34:17]
Big Woz
Yeah.
- [34:17]
Justin Barrier
It's basically Reeves's player option, Lucas player option. If he doesn't sign an extension and then like Van Go and like a couple other guys connect, etc. Is the goal here to basically be like, luca, you're our guy. And LeBron just has to deal with it because otherwise I don't see what the plan is for next season. Because right now they're worse than last year.
- [34:38]
Big Woz
They're definitely worse than last year. Like, the center rotation is in shambles, and it was already in shambles. Jake Laravia, who I quite like as a player and I would have been fully ready to come onto this podcast.
- [34:48]
Rob Mahoney
I like Jake LA too.
- [34:50]
Big Woz
If a team like the Rockets had picked up Jake Laravia and he's sort of a finishing piece, it's like, oh, that's a. That's a great signing. If he is the piece that your whole summer is. Is resting upon. Things have gone very sideways. Like, they just have not gone well. I. Here's where I would push back against, you know, the premise of what you're suggesting though, Justin, is like, I don't even see it as a matter of like, oh, did the Lakers not offer enough money? Did they not offer enough years? If you were given these two situations, I would go play for the Houston Rockets. Like, if I were Dorian Finney Smith. This is like fewer guaranteed minutes. But for a guy who's trying to compete for something, I think the Rockets have more to compete for right now.
- [35:26]
Justin Barrier
That's true. I wouldn't. If only because I get to live in LA and be a millionaire.
- [35:30]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah. And also Houston is a very attractive market to NBA players, if not everyday people.
- [35:36]
Big Woz
Yes. What do you think about crawfish? What do you think about Vietnamese food? How do you feel about humidity? These are important touchstones that you have to.
- [35:43]
Rob Mahoney
Before. And I'll say it again. Houston is the black Boston in terms of attractiveness to black people. It's just.
- [35:53]
Big Woz
Is that good? Yeah.
- [35:56]
Rob Mahoney
Well, you know how like Boston is like the white American bros. Like Mecca.
- [35:59]
Justin Barrier
Sure.
- [36:00]
Rob Mahoney
It's like Houston. Is that for black American people?
- [36:04]
Big Woz
Interesting.
- [36:05]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [36:05]
Justin Barrier
Learning so much.
- [36:06]
Rob Mahoney
It's got that level of reputation as a city.
- [36:10]
Big Woz
Then what is Atlanta?
- [36:12]
Rob Mahoney
Atlanta. Atlanta's the New York.
- [36:15]
Big Woz
Oh, so you're big boy in Houston.
- [36:18]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, Houston is, is, is the, is the Boston to Atlanta's New York for sure. But like it's up there in terms of prestige, you know that like players really like Houston a lot.
- [36:32]
Justin Barrier
Okay. No state taxes. Don't know if you guys knew that.
- [36:35]
Rob Mahoney
I personally, I don't see the comparison city wise in terms of LA and Houston, but you know, a lot of people disagree with me there.
- [36:45]
Justin Barrier
Yeah, I just. The Lakers seem to be in a bind and so if I'm just like on the whiteboard like trying to match all these things up, maybe LeBron has a point here that if he wants to compete for a title, that the Lakers aren't the best position to do so. Now it seems near impossible to get anywhere else. LeBron makes over $50 million and by opting in, he's just made it incredibly difficult to go to another team because as we're see across the league, guys are just getting bought out for totally normal contracts. Ayton was on an expiring contract. I think he was in the 30s. He got bought out like Jordan Clarkson. Colin Sexton gets dumped for a second round pick.
- [37:23]
Rob Mahoney
That was crazy.
- [37:24]
Justin Barrier
Who I thought was better? It just seems like guys are getting dumped and it just seems like the money squeeze is starting to affect certain personnel decisions. And so this is a long winded way of saying, like, how does LeBron get anywhere where the team not gunning like five players in order to bring him aboard?
- [37:40]
Big Woz
Yeah, this has been a super weird summer in a lot of ways already because there's so little cap space and so you're seeing teams make those sort of like financially motivated salary dumping moves because there's no other way to get below various thresholds to move certain guys along. The Jazz situation is unique though, because honestly it's pretty disappointing after the way that they've sort of held on to Sexton and Clarkson, that they ultimately didn't get anything for either of them and had to give up a second and take years of nurkic back in order to move on. Colin Sexton, who's a good NBA player, a good NBA scorer, I don't really understand like what happened there, but there just aren't a lot of teams that make sense for LeBron. Category 1 subset Teams that have the salary that could cobble together to trade for LeBron, even among those teams and teams that are now on the timeline, that would make sense to be competitive enough to fit what LeBron wants. Which to your point, like, he might be right, that the Lakers are a cute little rebuilding team right? Now, they certainly have a lot of work to do. Uh, but the. The list is quite short. The list might be the New York Knicks team.
- [38:39]
Rob Mahoney
It's one team.
- [38:40]
Big Woz
I. I think Cleveland might be on the list.
- [38:43]
Rob Mahoney
Who's the player coming back, though?
- [38:46]
Big Woz
Could be Jared Allen. Could be Darius Garland. I think Darius Garland would be a lot. Jared Allen about, I think could be reasonable.
- [38:53]
Justin Barrier
Cleveland and New York for LeBron. I feel like I'm in 2010 all.
- [38:56]
Big Woz
Over insane Family Guy clips, I guess.
- [38:59]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah. I mean, if the Lakers just was like, we want something before LeBron inevitably leaves us.
- [39:07]
Big Woz
Yeah, cool.
- [39:09]
Rob Mahoney
Like Carl Towns to me is like, they basically play the same position. They're both power forwards of way different conceptions, obviously, but, like, they're both power forwards and they make the exact same amount of money.
- [39:23]
Big Woz
You can also do. You could also do OG and stuff. I think og.
- [39:28]
Rob Mahoney
You could do OG and stuff.
- [39:30]
Big Woz
Yeah.
- [39:30]
Justin Barrier
I wouldn't do OG, though, if I'm the Knicks.
- [39:32]
Big Woz
Oh, I'm not saying.
- [39:33]
Rob Mahoney
I'm not saying you should do OG for LeBron.
- [39:37]
Justin Barrier
It's wild to say, but my guy is so old and he takes a lot off the table just because you have to pace him through regulars. I know it sounds wild to say out loud.
- [39:46]
Rob Mahoney
Crazy.
- [39:46]
Big Woz
I mean, he's an amazing player, obviously. LeBron's one of the greatest ever do it even today at his age, one of the better players in the league. He also does this shit. And you have to deal with this if you decide to employ LeBron James. It's a very real thing.
- [40:00]
Rob Mahoney
I do it for Towns in a heartbeat. In a heartbeat.
- [40:04]
Big Woz
All NBA season, playoff hero.
- [40:06]
Rob Mahoney
In a heartbeat.
- [40:07]
Big Woz
You're taking.
- [40:07]
Rob Mahoney
He's got like five more years left on his deal.
- [40:10]
Big Woz
Yeah, I bet.
- [40:10]
Justin Barrier
LeBron for the Lakers.
- [40:12]
Rob Mahoney
Again, it's position for position. And he could actually play center, theoretically for the Lakers, which we just covered. They're having problems filling that spot.
- [40:23]
Big Woz
They certainly are. But are those the problems you want in exchange?
- [40:27]
Rob Mahoney
Luca and Carl Towns and Austin Reese defense.
- [40:32]
Big Woz
Don't forget Austin in there.
- [40:34]
Justin Barrier
That is the, I think the decision. Do you want whatever Luka wants versus adding someone now and kind of gunking things up? I think Luka plus pick your teammate is a pretty attractive proposition if I'm the Lakers.
- [40:47]
Big Woz
Here's the thing. I don't know that Luca would love playing with Carl Anthony Towns. I don't think he loved playing with Kristaps Porzingis, you know, like during their time in Dallas. Even though it was quite successful at times. Even though it opened up all this Space for him, I think. I think what Luca needs is someone who's more of an interior presence. And when Towns makes himself an interior presence, picks up a lot of offensive fouls, like, he runs the risk of teetering on the edge of his game in a way that I don't think is representative of his talent. And I don't think it's flexing who he is as a shooter. Like, yeah, you can do a little bit of all those things if you're a Laker as Cat.
- [41:22]
Rob Mahoney
I just.
- [41:22]
Big Woz
I don't think that that partnership would be the most fruitful for either of them.
- [41:26]
Justin Barrier
Well, speaking of interior presences, Brooke Lopez, a guy that the Lakers were looking at maybe bringing him back, ultimately signed with the crosstown rivals with the Clippers. Two years and 18 million is what he got. And I love this partial list. Our friend Law Murray Athletic tweeted out here about all of the backup centers since they traded Mike Mascala for Avisa Zubich, Montrez Harrell. I'm going to read it for you. Montrez Harrell, Sergio Baca, Demarcus Cousins, Isaiah Hartenstein, Moses Brown, Mason Plumlee, Daniel Tice, Mo Bamba, Ben Simmons and Drew Eubanks. And now Brooke Lopez. So it's been a long slog to get to a guy I think fits reasonably well.
- [42:13]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, it's basically like, for, like when they're subbing Zube out, like, and adding a stretch element. Um, Zube is, at this point is. Which is crazy to say. He's more mobile than. Than Lopez is. He's. He's one of the five best six best defensive players in the entire NBA right now. The best Nikola Jokic answer that I've ever seen in my life. I love this. As a zoo backup. It's like you almost don't even skip a beat when you bring this guy in. If you're just like, look, man, we're planting your ass in the paint and, you know, orienting our defense that way. I think it's a wonderful move. You know, nice piece of business for Lopez getting 18 million out of it. Shoot, man. Why not? And again, Milwaukee, Louisiana. I mean, need I say more? This is.
- [43:10]
Big Woz
This is a tough time to make that argument again. Milwaukee in the summer. Beautiful place.
- [43:14]
Rob Mahoney
Oh, yeah.
- [43:15]
Big Woz
Are they comparable cities?
- [43:16]
Rob Mahoney
I guess that's pretty cool in the summer, too. Just look, gotta say, I don't think.
- [43:21]
Big Woz
Brooke Lopez is going to hate being in California again. I don't think he's going to be. Hate being this close to Disneyland again. I think he's going to have a great time. Ultimately, the Clippers are a tough team to shop for because they have a lot of, a lot of stuff in the rotation, a lot of good players, a lot of things that kind of fit in various capacities. And you saw to what extent, like to what extent that can be effective and where it can be limiting. That is what it is. Until they want to dramatically remake their team. The one glaring hole as, as you zeroed in with that list, Justin is like, who's playing backup? 5. It can't be small ball all the time. And having Brook Lopez as a guy who can play regular season minutes as that stretch option, like it really is a foolproof sort of option given what they had to work with, what the market looked like, and the player who can kind of do the most good for them in terms of this sort of spot addition.
- [44:07]
Justin Barrier
Yeah. So they bring back Harden as part of their offseason moves thus far. Makes sense. I mean, game seven was what it was.
- [44:14]
Rob Mahoney
They added price to the deal. I think he earned that extra year for sure.
- [44:19]
Justin Barrier
Yep. I think he has an option on it as well. They still need a backup point guard. Honestly, I think Chris Paul would make a ton of sense. I don't know if he and Harden are ever going to be able to get along again, but I pretty much those guys play with each other every four years to the point where Kevin Durant is playing with Jeff Green on the Rockets after Russell Westbrook and after James Harden played on the Rockets. So, like we're just shuffling up the. The Yahtzee like container and just like figuring this thing out every couple years now. So who knows? But the Clippers seem like they're going ahead with what they had. And what they had was pretty good except for some of those playoff games. We should talk about the Bucks side of this with the Lopez situation because they lose Lopez but virtually bring back the same lot of guys that they had last year. Kevin Porter Jr. Is resigning. Bobby Portis resigning. Torian Prince, as we were recording this, also resigned. I guess that's it. They have a little flexibility now. I think that they could use part of their mle. But we keep this is the thing looming over the entire league wise. It's just like Giannis is coming back to what?
- [45:27]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, like we, we're hearing the reports like Giannis is staying put, blah, blah, blah. But like if Giannis's whole thing is I only want to be competitive, I want to compete, I want to play for championships, I want to make deep playoff runs like the whole league has eyes. That has not been achieved by the roster that's been constructed. Not to say that there's much wiggle room here. Damian Lillard, your second highest paid player, second best player is gone for the whole season. Older guy with an Achilles. Like, it's not even. Like they could tell somebody, yo, Dane Lindsay is going to come back strong as hell. Why don't you get ahead of it and trade for him and give us some cool stuff right now? Like, they can't. They can't do that. And so this is what it is. I think people are just waiting for Giannis to wake up and smell the trash that's filling his locker room in terms of teammates. And so it's tough. It's tough. Rob, what do you want me to call this roster? Look, you want me to say serviceable?
- [46:30]
Big Woz
It's. It's not really serviceable. I'm not. I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna sugarcoat it. Is it trash, though? There's a range between trash and serviceable. And we're in there. It's, you know, it's sputtering, it's defaulting.
- [46:41]
Rob Mahoney
Let me ask you something. Trash, Respectable. Who has a better supporting cast this year? Giannis Antetokounmpo or Lamelo Ball?
- [46:52]
Big Woz
Have you looked at Charlotte's depth chart?
- [46:55]
Justin Barrier
Yeah, it's pretty dicey. I would say they just signed Mason Plumlee.
- [46:58]
Rob Mahoney
I would say it's better than. Than Milwaukee's.
- [47:01]
Justin Barrier
I would.
- [47:02]
Big Woz
How about this? Let's, let's. Let's take some guesses all around. Who do you think is slotted to start at center for the Charlotte Hornets? They just traded Mark Williams.
- [47:11]
Rob Mahoney
Gone.
- [47:12]
Big Woz
Yusuf Nurkic. Gone. Nick Richards got traded last season.
- [47:15]
Justin Barrier
Oh, it's Diabate.
- [47:17]
Big Woz
Diabate is there. See, this is slated to start at the five for the Charlotte Hornets. Or Ryan Kalkbrenn, a player who I guess is a real person who just got drafted. I'm going to have to see him to find out.
- [47:30]
Rob Mahoney
I honestly don't know what his last name was.
- [47:32]
Big Woz
Ryan Kalkbrenner.
- [47:37]
Rob Mahoney
All right, okay.
- [47:38]
Justin Barrier
They also brought back Mason Plumlee. So, yeah, you got to do two tours. If you're a big old white guy.
- [47:44]
Rob Mahoney
Who'S played for the strongest, they should.
- [47:46]
Big Woz
Not have done that.
- [47:47]
Rob Mahoney
Brandon Miller, you know, Miles Bridges, even the rookie they brought in, like, they just got way more shit on their team.
- [47:57]
Justin Barrier
It's just younger. And so for that reason I was, man, I would say Milwaukee, Milwaukee's built to win next season. Charlotte is much better off. Long Term split the baby there.
- [48:05]
Big Woz
But this is the difficulty for the Bucks is, you know, bring back Bobby Portis is a best case scenario. No, I think it's a best case scenario for them under these circumstances. They just don't have any other means to bring in someone as good as Portis. And I think Bobby Portis is pretty flawed and I think for a championship level team raises all sorts of questions. But they need him. Like they need guys who can fill out front court minutes who are not Giannis or Kyle Kuzma or I guess Tyler Smith, you know, like they, they really need players who can fill those spots. So having him is huge. Getting, getting Kevin Porter Jr back, I'm sure is important to some people. I don't really like is what it is. Ultimately this leaves you with like, what are you doing with the mid level. They're another one of these teams that is sitting there with their exception, trying to figure out how to spend it. If you're going to bring back Gary Trent Jr. You're going to have to cut into it. I think that it probably, they're, you know, it behooves them to do that. Like Gary Trent Jr. Was good for them. He's part of some of their more effective lineups. But as we are slotting all these guys back in Torian Prince and, and Gary Trent Jr. Like, you're right, Justin. This is kind of just the same group. Like where is, where's the new blood coming from? Because the guards you might have wanted are gone. The bigs you might have wanted are vanishing off the board. The Wings, I'm not sure they were over there in free agency to begin with. Like, they're just not are. But there aren't a lot of options that actually make sense for the Bucks short term and long term. And so then you're just kind of trying to recapture the magic of what was ultimately a doomed season.
- [49:29]
Justin Barrier
We can't even lie to ourselves.
- [49:30]
Rob Mahoney
Magic. That's how you describe what they're doing.
- [49:34]
Justin Barrier
We can't even lie to ourselves and say that like, oh, this draft pick that isn't going to be good has upside that they might be able to tap into. AJ Johnson ain't there anymore. And so like maybe we could do Derry Bird if we want.
- [49:48]
Big Woz
A.J.
- [49:48]
Justin Barrier
Green.
- [49:49]
Big Woz
Yeah, A.J.
- [49:49]
Justin Barrier
Green, he's solid. Solid player who will probably get buried because Doc will lose interest in him like halfway through the season.
- [49:55]
Big Woz
I mean, that's the thing.
- [49:56]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [49:56]
Big Woz
What are you going to do? Who's.
- [49:58]
Justin Barrier
Yeah, where is the next wave coming from? Who's going to actually make this team better than it was last year. It's a mess. So something to keep an eye on because honestly that could make the difference for the entire league at this point.
- [50:09]
Big Woz
That was a team that needed to have a really good day and I think had this maybe the start of one or the start of a good weekend in terms of bringing Portis back and just like could not get the guys that they probably needed to get.
- [50:21]
Justin Barrier
Speaking of a team that had a good weekend, we have to talk about our Atlanta Hawks who just. Yes. Keep adding.
- [50:28]
Big Woz
Hell yeah.
- [50:28]
Justin Barrier
Talk about the Rockets who are piling on the wing players. The Hawks are following suit there. They get Nikhil Alexander Walker 4 years, 62 million. They ultimately have to do it via sign in trade for a middling little second. Going back to the Timberwolves. They also get Luke Canard on a one year $11 million deal. Apparently Trey Young made a call, was like we need to get my guy Luke Canard. Have no idea how those guys know each other or why Canard would listen to Trey Young. But I think he helps because was like this depth chart starting to fill in behind that starting five that I think we were so excited about. We talked about that just the other day.
- [51:04]
Rob Mahoney
It's nice. Obviously Luke Kennard is a more than capable backup. Play him at the two, play him at the one. Could do a little bit of ball handling for you. Great shooter, one of the best shooters in the league. Has been for years now. And I think that rap that he had as like one of the worst defenders in the history of life is more improved again. I'm not saying he's just to get back to the Cam Johnson thing. Not saying he's gonna go out and strap anybody or anything close to that.
- [51:34]
Big Woz
It's unrelevant.
- [51:34]
Rob Mahoney
It's no longer a complete embarrassment and problem on that end. So just a beautiful, you know, backup piece. And Alexander Walker I think could start for this team at the two, you know when. And you put Reese or you know, some of these other guys at the. At the three.
- [51:53]
Big Woz
I mean depending Dyson Daniels though.
- [51:55]
Rob Mahoney
Well, sure, sure. Dyson Daniels that maybe has to start. Who knows though how the season.
- [52:00]
Justin Barrier
They have options.
- [52:01]
Rob Mahoney
That's what I'm saying. You know, they have so much optionality now. And Alexander Walker getting $62 million, man, when before he got the Minnesota, you could have said he was on the fringes of the NBA and him making himself into like one of Minnesota's most indispensable parts and like earning this deal super happy for him, man. I think he's going to fit in beautifully with what they're doing. And I'm interested to see this is the kind of team that Quinn Snyder, like, specializes in making work. All these interchangeable, versatile kind of parts. Um, and, you know, like, it's just crazy that they've rebuilt this and reimagined this still around Trae Young somehow. Yeah, like, we're still here and, like, we like the roster and it's not toxic. And it's like, this is going to be cool to watch next year if everybody plays. Like, this is really exciting stuff.
- [52:58]
Big Woz
It's just the kind of depth chart that makes you feel something. I don't know how else to put it. Like, you, you just, you just look at this collection of names and wing talent and defense, and you're right. Like, there are so many options on the board. I don't know is going to play when and in what combinations. But you really have to give credit to newly elevated general manager Ansi Salah, who, like, again, people step into this job especially when they're promoted from within, you don't really know what to expect from them. Within a week, basically, the Hawks have added Chris Apingis, Nikhil Alexander Walker and Luke Canard, who we just said, well, I guess we'll see, like, if Asa Newell has anything to give them. Kind of out of the gate, but also bringing in that Pelicans pick from down the line on the other side of the, you know, the much maligned deal that we discussed on the last pod. Not a bad bit of business about that trade. They certainly were. And you know what? Maybe they should be. I'm, you know, I'm just gonna, just gonna lob that over there. But this is an incredible turnaround, like, was, you're right. I, I don't know how you do it this quickly. I don't know how the team gets shaken up in a way that all of a sudden they just make a totally different Quinn Snyder sort of sense. And I, I, I think some of that is Trey Young. Like, I do want to give Trey credit, not just for being a recruiter, but for coming off of what I would say was his most mature season to date, in which he, he flexed fewer of his bad habits. He actually dug in on defense. He tried to move the ball like he tried to do all the things that people have been begging him to do. And now he has a roster around him that's better suited to benefit from that than any roster he's ever played with. Before.
- [54:27]
Rob Mahoney
So just to bring the listeners back, you gotta think about the narrative around the baby boy trade, the Dejounte Murray trademark, where it's like, yo, the Hawks kind of went all in, gave up a bunch of draft capital for a dude who was perceived as a great compliment to Trae Young. Although it had been years since the San Antonio level defense dogging people on the perimeter. But the idea was that Murray would be back there just hounding guys and kind of free up Trae Young to do more of the things that he's suited to do. That didn't happen. They gave up a lot of picks to do so. And it was like, wow, that's a failure. And then now look at it, they've actually found the actual compliments to Trae Young, specifically Dyson Daniels. But again, Risha Shay, I think you can say the same thing. And from everything we've saw from Alexander Walker, where it's like, I can be on the ball, I can be off the ball, I'm now a reliable shooter. When he gets into people in the back court, he's one of the best defensive perimeter players that are getting his minutes totals in the league. Man, good on transition. Like, this is crazy that they've now like actually done what they've been trying to do for so long. It's really cool.
- [55:45]
Justin Barrier
It's almost the opposite logic of the Murray trade where it's like we're going to take the ball potentially sometimes out of Young's hand, maybe make him play off ball. And they were being a bit of synergy there. If anything, this team is built first and foremost with Trey dispersing it to a bunch of wing players who probably don't have like the, the ball handling talent, save for like Jalen Johnson or whatever development Dyson Daniels ultimately does. If there would be kind of a pushback, would be like, maybe they're too reliant on Trey to get everyone involved. But I think I like it overall. Everything just seems to fit a clear vision for a team. And we haven't said that about the Hawks in a very long time.
- [56:23]
Big Woz
The thing that makes me a little nervous is the front court rotation between a congu Chris Apps and Jalen Johnson.
- [56:31]
Rob Mahoney
Those are three guys injured as hell.
- [56:33]
Big Woz
They all get injured and it's like you're, you're.
- [56:37]
Justin Barrier
Was Johnson just last year he, he's.
- [56:40]
Big Woz
No, he's missed games the year before too.
- [56:43]
Justin Barrier
Maybe I'm misremembering.
- [56:44]
Rob Mahoney
The COVID year at Duke was a weird thing as well. Like he's. He's always shut himself down, man.
- [56:50]
Justin Barrier
Yeah.
- [56:51]
Big Woz
So that scares me a little bit. Just because you're stacking all those guys up and relying on all of them potentially so heavily. But you've got so many guards and in terms of combinations and teams that can get away with playing three guard looks, this is going to be one of the better ones certainly in the east and probably in the league. Nikhil to me is sort of like your Andrew Nembhard. Like he fits that like lengthier, bigger player. But in terms of a guy who's going to be able to pick up full court. In addition to Dyson Daniels preying on people, in addition to Reza Shay having like the innate feel that he does, all of a sudden there's just like so much exciting wing playing happening with the Hawks.
- [57:24]
Justin Barrier
I think it says something that they can afford someone like Canard who's a shooter first and doesn't really play defense because they have so much of those other guys to cover for him when for the longest time they needed those other guys because they had a lot of offensive first players. Like it's a complete facelift of who they were as a franchise. Any other thing you guys want to talk about? The Grizzlies made a shit ton of moves today.
- [57:48]
Rob Mahoney
I love it. I love it.
- [57:50]
Justin Barrier
Should I run it down real quick? Please do. So renegotiated and extended Jaren Jackson Jr. For 240 million. Five years player option on the last year. Santi Aldama three years 52 million. Cam Spencer two years 4.5 million. And then they get our guy tied to Rome three years 28 million. It seems like Cole Anthony is going to get bought out in order to facilitate some of these moves. But like a lot of block boy all stars just like on this team again. So like needless to say, we're fans. Yeah.
- [58:22]
Rob Mahoney
Ty Jerome again another congratulations in order for him. Another guy fringes of the NBA like yo, is this thing ever going to coalesce? It does last season he gets himself paid so super, super duper happy for him. Santia Alama more than earned this deal last year in the regular season was just incredible and I just like. And obviously the Jaren Jackson renegotiating and extend was a no brainer. Like that's not even like you do that obviously. I think the cool thing is that they shook it up while also, you know, clarifying that the success of the team is going to come and go. With Jaren Jackson and John Morant. You guys have no excuses. We didn't rip this Thing down to the studio, there's still talented individuals all up and down this roster. And if John Moran and Jaren Jackson are who those guys think they are, they think of themselves as this should be a damn good team next year. And if it's not, then the, the, the Memphis Grizzlies can go into being like, these guys are losers. They're never going to win here. Get them out of here. Let's, let's start all over. But I like that they did a lot of sort of split the baby here in terms of moving on from, bang, getting a bunch of stuff for him. And if they have to go in this rebuild direction because ultimately they're diaper dandies. Although them diapers looking more like the Pens these days, they're gonna have to be counted on and see if these boys have become men yet.
- [60:00]
Big Woz
So are the boys or the men wearing the Depends what's going on there?
- [60:03]
Rob Mahoney
Well, that's the thing. Like Dick Vital, you were diaper dandy if you were a freshman in college.
- [60:08]
Big Woz
Sure. Yes.
- [60:09]
Rob Mahoney
So these guys, they're youngish, youngish NBA plays, but it's like they're not really diaper dandies anymore.
- [60:15]
Big Woz
You know, they're not trying to be safe down there.
- [60:17]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, they're getting, they getting longer in the tube.
- [60:20]
Big Woz
Okay. I respect them.
- [60:23]
Rob Mahoney
They're not Biden level, but you know, they, in NBA terms, they're, they're getting up there.
- [60:29]
Big Woz
They certainly are.
- [60:30]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [60:30]
Big Woz
I, I, I still don't really understand like exactly what this team is. I'm trying to get my arms around it. This was a lot of movement, even if it's just retaining in certain ways. But I'm still kind of like trying to recover from the Desmond Bain trade and KCP being a prominent part of this team. Obviously Ty Jerome is in some ways supplanting Scottie Pippen Jr. But I imagine both of those guys are going to play th. This is the problem with them being the blog boy All Stars is the true blog boy all stars on this team are going to play like three minutes. It's going to be like Gigi Jackson getting in for garbage time. You know, I don't know what to make of the fact that they're going to have to reincorporate Jalen Wells, who was injured at the end of last season, reincorporate Brandon Clark. Like they got a lot of guys who were already on the roster and just weren't present because of their injuries, and now they're adding talent. Now they're reshuffling they, they do just depend a lot on Jaw in terms of driving their offense even more so than, than before. I think losing Bain's ball handling and creativity, look, it's a big deal. Like you can try to replace that with Ty Jerome. We just saw where that gets you in the playoffs. And this is where I'm torn. Was on. On the celebration of Ty Jerome as a guy who just made himself a bunch of money because he also just cost himself a bunch of money. I think if he had coming off the regular season, he might have been in line for like a $15 million a year deal from the Magic. Otherwise, you know, like some team would have really saw the future in that. Instead you see him as a role player type who could be useful.
- [61:52]
Rob Mahoney
Indiana series kind of ruined the stock a little bit.
- [61:55]
Big Woz
The bloom fell right off the roast.
- [61:57]
Rob Mahoney
But hey, man, $20 million is decent work if you could find it. And it's a hell of a lot better than getting your passport stamped in Turkey or freaking Greece or something like that. I like, you know, I think it's nice.
- [62:10]
Justin Barrier
Yeah. But I think you have a point, Rob, because the Grizzly Superpower is finding guys on the fringes. Their question for many years, especially in the Jaw Jaron construction, is like, how do they get another star level talent to figure out that three position that they've long kind of suffered for? It still doesn't feel like they're any closer to that. Maybe Cedric Coward just develops into that and going the draft route actually makes sense for them because they draft historically very, very well. But then that's a longer timeline. Might have to go a little bit longer in order to get to the team that we've been waiting for them to become elsewhere. Anything else catch your eyes here? We haven't, we haven't talked about Dennis Schroeder, some of these other kind of guys in the mix here.
- [62:49]
Rob Mahoney
The Julius Randle deal is fascinating because basically two more years at the exact same money, like 33 mil after all he's done for this team like this. That makes me wonder about like, how we're just not a cap space sport anymore. And like, it just feels like he's gotten underpaid on that deal. And at a certain point you kind of get tired of fighting and be like, oh, will I kick the can next year? You know? Cause theoretically he could be like, oh, I'm holding a gun to your head in terms of my contract. But the Wolves are like, who are you going to sign with outright for more money? It's just, it's just not there. I just. I don't know, man. Again, I just think. I just. Look, OG Anunoby love him as a player. Like that dude is 12 to 13 million dollars a year better than Julius Randle.
- [63:52]
Big Woz
I mean, it's more complicated than that to me. Yeah. I think that's just because OG maps so easily onto any team in the league. If you want to be a Julius Randle team, you have to make a lot of considerations to make that work and make it happen. The Wolves have done it as better than I would have ever imagined they could have. It turned out to be an incredible partnership and him and Ant and like him and some of those early playoff series in particular, I'm just frankly stunned by how well Julius Randle performed and how good Timberwolf he turned out to be. It kind of makes sense. And look, this is, I would say generally speaking, relative to his production, a team friendly deal like this is low end starter money. I mean it's, it's more than that.
- [64:32]
Rob Mahoney
33 starter money.
- [64:34]
Justin Barrier
I think that no, like what Drew makes. Yeah, it's.
- [64:37]
Big Woz
It's still above average starter money.
- [64:39]
Justin Barrier
They're starters. They're starters who are on their third deals. I mean, listen, I like Randall, but.
- [64:45]
Rob Mahoney
He'S making less than Jrue Holiday.
- [64:47]
Justin Barrier
I think if we had this insane. I think if we had this conversation a year ago, we'd be like, where is Julius Randle going to go? Because he does one thing very well, but it's tough to fit that into other teams. So if anything, the market is one. The market is suppressing. I think guys who aren't absolute superstars, if you are in that next tier, you're just not going to get paid in that way anymore. And we've seen that across the board. But also, like, I just don't know who else would be paying him. And so for me, this seems like a nice marriage on both sides.
- [65:16]
Big Woz
Ultimately, I think it makes sense for everybody, like for Julius Randall to be the part of the long term core of a really competitive team that just went to the conference finals, is poised to compete for it again. Like that's a good outcome for Julius Randle. It may not be the money he wanted.
- [65:30]
Rob Mahoney
I'm just saying he was the Pascal Siakam of this team straight up.
- [65:35]
Big Woz
Like, he is not as good as Pascal Siakam saying he is, but he.
- [65:38]
Rob Mahoney
Was the Pascal Siakam of this team.
- [65:41]
Big Woz
You're right. But this is what happens when Julius Randle is the Pascal Siakam of your team is like you run pretty hard into the wall when you get there.
- [65:48]
Justin Barrier
Yeah. Nas Reed also comes back to Minnesota as part of some of their moves there, they ultimately had to choose between Nas or Nikhil. Nikhil was the one out there. I think nas was what, five years? 125 Ultimately, which is solid money for a guy that's hard to replace just because of the way that he fits next to all their various bigs and they brought in two other young, very raw big men in the draft. And so like, he's going to be important to that process. So I'll give this, I'll give the Minnesota new owners credit for this. They keep spending, perhaps not at the level in years past, but like trying.
- [66:22]
Rob Mahoney
To prove a point.
- [66:23]
Justin Barrier
Man, they're blowing through it in order to make sure this, this team stays competitive. Like, like, it's unfortunate that the CBA restricts teams so that they can't just bring Nikhil back and just pay these guys whatever they want in order to do so. But like this is still a very top heavy team that's paying through the nose in order.
- [66:40]
Rob Mahoney
By the way. By the way, I want to give a shout out to my guy, Nate Duncan, because I was listening to his show and he brought up a great point and he was sort of snarkily talking about these new draconian rules and he's like, thank God the big market Timberwolves can't keep Nikhil Alexander Walker on their team. Thank God. Because this is. I mean the league was being ruined by stuff like this. It's. It's a mental. What these idiots have done with this roster structure to salary structure stuff is so fucking stupid.
- [67:13]
Justin Barrier
The Celtics couldn't even bring back Luke Cornette. He's getting paid by the spurs, which.
- [67:19]
Big Woz
More power to him Couldner would.
- [67:21]
Rob Mahoney
They could have won four years.
- [67:24]
Justin Barrier
41 million for Luke. Connect.
- [67:26]
Rob Mahoney
Shouts to him, man, good for him. He deserves that.
- [67:30]
Big Woz
But Luke Cornett has been the exception to what we've seen in this market overall. Like this has been so far the summer of the re up. It is go back to your team, sign an advantageous deal because that's all the money you're really going to get. It's not out there. Like everyone we saw change teams was mostly guys who could fit into the mid level exception. That's it. That's it. Guys who, guys who were signed and traded or guys who are on like the mid level or the biannual. That, that really is all the movement we've seen so far. That wasn't just like A trade for.
- [67:56]
Rob Mahoney
Trade Jordan Clark in the campaign minutes for the Knicks next year. Major, major, major upgrade.
- [68:05]
Big Woz
I like that.
- [68:07]
Justin Barrier
Anything else, Rob, that you like?
- [68:10]
Big Woz
What's happened? We, we brushed on Kavon Looney.
- [68:13]
Justin Barrier
Got a pour one out. We finally leaving Golden State. Do you know how old that guy is?
- [68:18]
Big Woz
He's younger than 28.
- [68:20]
Justin Barrier
Yeah, he's 29. I would have said 37. He's been on Golden State for so.
- [68:25]
Rob Mahoney
Goddamn long, basically since he got drafted. That's the thing, man. Like, he got minutes damn near out the gate.
- [68:32]
Big Woz
Yeah.
- [68:33]
Justin Barrier
So he's going to New Orleans. Two years, 16 million. I don't know what the hell New Orleans is doing. That seems like just another big. They have a couple of those guys, but, like, I don't see how it all fits together. But he's, he's a steady veteran. Locker room.
- [68:46]
Big Woz
I, I am glad that the Knicks got involved with Clarkson, though, because they, it did kind of feel today like most of the east just sort of fell asleep. Like, I, I don't know what was happening or not happening or seen the conference well, but that's like there's opportunity there for whoever wants to jump at it. And Orlando already made their move. Big one.
- [69:03]
Justin Barrier
At least they got Tyus Jones.
- [69:06]
Big Woz
Yeah. Scott Tyrus Jones today. That's look, that's nice. Like, them getting that much shooting and ball handling in one one offseason, I think is a nice swing for the Magic. Other than the Magic, I guess the Celtics technically did some stuff. I don't know that any of it was particularly useful. And they certainly said goodbye to a lot of people. I think, like, we're at the point now with Boston where they're already, because of injury and losses to their roster, without four of their top nine guys in terms of minutes last season. Al Horford could also very soon be out the door. The sort of like open chatter out there is that he might be going to the Golden State Warriors. We'll see if that turns out to be the case or not. Yeah, I, I guess they're just going to have a whole new team. I guess Anthony Simon's just going to play 42 minutes a night, and that's going to be that. I'm not looking forward to watching Boston Celtics basketball. I am looking forward to watching basically everyone in the west who, I guess they've just decided like, we're all pushing in. They all, they all see some opening. They all see some advantage. Maybe give or take the Lakers in that.
- [69:58]
Justin Barrier
Yeah. I'll say this just as a way to go out on. I still think, and I tweeted this yesterday, that Deandre Ayton has a Javale McGee like kind of track to his career left in him because in 2021 you just streamline what he does and it worked. I just like, maybe because I'm around him so often, but he's a giant athlete who moves so fluidly and if he could just be a little bit more serious about things more often, I think it could pay off to the point where, like when the, when the Blazers went on their run at the start of this year, he was a big part of that. And I have to wonder, playing for his next contract, potentially being with a premier creator like a Luka will ultimately unearth that version of him. That would be the hope for the Lakers because honestly, this is an amazing.
- [70:45]
Rob Mahoney
Way to end this pod. Justin is still in. I'm just saying, like, like we hadn't done any Portland homerism stuff. He's so Portland. He's still in on dominating even though he's gone.
- [70:57]
Big Woz
He's not even going to be of Portland anymore.
- [70:59]
Rob Mahoney
He's like, no, he's always in our hearts guy. He's a fun guy, loves his video games. He's going to figure it out.
- [71:05]
Big Woz
So I'm just confused. Like, where are we in the Javale McGee arc? If he's having the Javale McGee arc.
- [71:10]
Rob Mahoney
Is it Javale McGee? Golden State.
- [71:12]
Big Woz
Okay.
- [71:12]
Justin Barrier
Yeah. Golden State Lakers. I'm playing every year for my contract. I'm just going to run and jump and be giant and athletic. That's the path.
- [71:20]
Big Woz
We got an email today at Ringer group chat@gmail.com from Shaw, a listener. Shaw, who said buying out Aiden after a couple garbage years really emphasizes the was classic big for nothing label. You know what, we got to bring it back until the man boxes out a single time. DeAndre Ayden is big for nothing.
- [71:41]
Justin Barrier
DeAndre intake more than one free throw a game challenge. Yeah, it's gonna be big.
- [71:45]
Big Woz
It would be nice.
- [71:46]
Justin Barrier
Attach a chick fil a coupon.
- [71:48]
Rob Mahoney
He's gonna be a great Laker.
- [71:50]
Justin Barrier
Yes. All right, why don't we end it on that note? I believe we'll be back on Thursday. You guys. Something for your July 4th planning. Thank you to Isaiah Blakely. Thank you to Ben Cruz. We'll talk to you next time.
- [72:05]
Big Woz
Sa.