Loading summary
Transcript254 lines
- [00:00]
Justin Varier
This episode is brought to you by patron 100% additive free tequila. When it comes to ingredients, Patron doesn't need to play games. That's why their tequila is crafted with 100% Weber Blue Agave water and thyme. No sweeteners, no added extracts, no secrets, just 100% additive free tequila. Visit patron tequila.com to learn more. The perfect way to enjoy Patron is responsibly Copyright 2025 imported by the Patron Spirits Company Coral Gables, Florida Tequila 40% Alcoh by volume.
- [00:33]
Rob Mahoney
This episode is supported by State Farm. Man, I remember when I first got into a car accident it was pure frustration because I did not have State Farm. And now that I do have State Farm, it is an exclamation of pure joy. But the only words that you need to remember are like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. State Farm has options to fit your unique insurance needs, meaning you can talk to your agent to choose the coverage you need, have coverage options to protect the things you value most, file a claim right on the State Farm mobile app, and even reach a real person when you need to talk to someone. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Learn more@state farm.com.
- [01:25]
Justin Varier
Hello and welcome to Group Chat. I am Justin Varier and joining me, Rob Mahoney, Big Waz. Welcome to today's episode which is our annual worst episode of the season. This is where I correctly predict the future of the NBA and a bunch of heretics tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about and then I'm proven right a year later.
- [01:48]
Big Waz
Yet another example of Justin creating a bit and then growing to despise the bit as we co opt it with truth. I don't know what to tell you.
- [01:57]
Justin Varier
Is that what you'd call it? I would say lies and just misperceptions and just not appreciating the knowledge that I'm dropping here. That's what I would say.
- [02:07]
Big Waz
All right, would you like to explain the premise of what we're doing today?
- [02:11]
Justin Varier
We're doing the future Power rankings, which is the inevitable counterpart to the no power rankings. We talked about the worst five situations in the league. We are today doing the five best situations for from this point going forward. We should mention we're recording this a day early. It's 4pm Pacific time on Wednesday, so if we missed something in last night's games, that's why we're also doing this a little bit differently this year because I had some feedback about my participants, my fellow co hosts picks in years past Here, one might say it leaned a little bit more on the best players in the league than necessarily the best situations. I understand that those two things are intertwined, but you know what? We're trying to have a fucking podcast here. We're just trying to talk about the gray area. So no Giannis. If I see the fucking Bucks on this list, we're rejecting the pot immediately.
- [03:03]
Big Waz
I wouldn't put it past us. But look, was. Isn't it so crazy that a team with, like, a superstar in their mid-20s that is also great might also be great in the future?
- [03:12]
Justin Varier
Yeah.
- [03:13]
Unknown Speaker
Insane. That, like, you know, say, somebody like Phil Jackson, for instance, when picking jobs, would consider the fact that a team had Kobe and Shaq on it.
- [03:24]
Big Waz
Yeah.
- [03:24]
Unknown Speaker
That might matter to the quality of a job and its future. So, yeah, I think picking teams with good players tends to be the best situations. I don't know. Call me crazy.
- [03:40]
Justin Varier
It matters, but we're trying to get into the texture here, you know, the nuance of all the other different things. So Rob. Rob introduced this. So we're going to call this the Rob Rule. So this will go into the group chat.
- [03:52]
Unknown Speaker
It's like you stepping in, but for group chat. Future rankings.
- [03:57]
Justin Varier
So for our rankings of which we're going to give the top five future situations in the league, you cannot have these three teams, the Celtics, the Cavaliers, the Oklahoma City Thunder, because all three of those teams are not only good right now, but also good moving forward. I think all three of us would have all three teams on our list.
- [04:16]
Big Waz
Oh, yes.
- [04:17]
Justin Varier
In some order.
- [04:18]
Unknown Speaker
Yes.
- [04:19]
Big Waz
Goes without saying that they would be involved now. Now that we've kicked them out, will we still have very similar lists? I honestly don't know. I don't know what to expect. And I. Well, I do know what to expect, which is. JV's list is not going to make sense.
- [04:32]
Justin Varier
Again.
- [04:32]
Big Waz
Going to be on the right side of history, picking the best players on the best teams, and we're going to go from there.
- [04:38]
Unknown Speaker
Yes.
- [04:38]
Justin Varier
Yeah. So if you at home are listening right now, you could basically just go to the standings of ESPN.com, whichever browser of your choice. Look at the top five teams beyond the top three teams. Those are going to be the list.
- [04:51]
Unknown Speaker
Not true.
- [04:52]
Big Waz
Not quite.
- [04:52]
Unknown Speaker
Not quite.
- [04:53]
Justin Varier
Mine definitely veers. Strap that motherfucker. Rob, since you instituted the Rob Rule, do you want to kick us off with your number five here?
- [05:02]
Big Waz
I would love to. My number five this year is actually the same as my number five last year, and that's the Memphis Grizzlies top 10 on both sides of the ball with the fifth youngest roster in the league, one of the cheapest payrolls in the league. That sounds like sustainable success to me. I understand the caveats, the concerns about half court execution, about having a deep roster versus like a really rock solid eight man roster for the postseason for you know, the, the machinations of this offense and how it could get stalled out in a seven game series. I hear all of that. This is a team that wins 50 games basically anytime they're healthy. They have really good young talent, they have a stable of really good players. I feel very confident in whatever it is that's going to happen to the Grizzlies and whatever kind of shape their team ultimately takes.
- [05:45]
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, to me this list is about not just having great players but great players who are young. And Memphis has two bonafide All Stars, All NBA level players in Jaren Jackson Jr. Or is he the third? I always forget the juniors. It's three Js. Sorry, three Js. Jaren Jackson Jr. John Moran and then of course Desmond Bain who and a given year could be all star to borderline all star. And so having those three guys, having them all under contract in a market like Memphis, I think that think that matters. Jaren Jackson seems to be in line for a nice extension this summer and so yeah, give me Memphis but I have them a lot higher than Rob does. I've actually got them as my number two situation hot in the NBA. Yeah, number two. I just really love that they've got these guys in house. They have a decent amount of their draft capital also like they're young guys that they've drafted like their ancillary guys and Gigi Jacksons and the rest of these guys. I just love the future for them. And so Memphis is my number two team.
- [06:56]
Justin Varier
So they were my first team out and I should say that I would say my bottom two teams, so five and four on my list. Really not that much of a difference between my first three teams out. There was a couple teams in the mix for me and they're all kind of similar where it's like great institution but not necessarily the star power or star power doesn't necessarily have the track record, the assets down the road we'll, we'll get.
- [07:17]
Big Waz
Very interesting, very interesting that you're leaning on star power. You know you never would do such a thing.
- [07:23]
Justin Varier
Star power plus good assets. A competent, well run organization that that qualifies as a good future power ranking, my friend. But I think my concern with Memphis and again I had them just out of there is that I do worry with JOT at this point. I think Jaren Jackson is playing on a different level this season. I do wonder what his ceiling is. I think we have to almost recalibrate how we think about him. I think he's played very well, especially isolating and in their new kind of ball movement, like everybody's passing 19 times a possession sort of offense. James Herbert at CBS wrote a very good piece about that offense and how they kind of cracked it based off of was it a D3 team, D2 team. But you should go check that that piece out. I think it's a really good one. John. Just I don't know man. He's missed 24 games this season and I have down seven different issues he's had that's contributed to those 24 misses. Knee bruise, brain shoulder, shoulder soreness, thigh soreness, foot soreness, back soreness and an illness and a lot of it seems to be this AC joint sprain that he had. That's the one that's been more persistent. But if they don't have jaw then it's it's a pretty good team. They they've won without Job, then I'm starting to wonder what their ceiling is.
- [08:30]
Big Waz
It's a fair question. I think the reason I'm a little more bullish on that ceiling is jaw is a bit of a question mark, health and otherwise. Every member of the rotation, though, I think you could make the argument is going to get better. They're one of these teams that they don't have some stray veteran really in the mix at this point. Even guys like Brandon Clark and Luke Canard, who are the old heads by comparison, are just 28. Everyone else is in that like 20 to 26 bracket. And so while none of those guys may be a Ja Morant level transcendent draw and driver of offense and you know, like potential superstar, you're just going to have a lot of really quality players to the point that if Memphis ever does need to recalibrate, if they ever do need to consider, you know, a post jaw existence or a pivot away given some of the liabilities that his injuries present, they're as capable as anybody of putting a really compelling trade package together, of putting together some of these great young players that they've drafted and developed. And also they do have not a bunch of incoming picks, but they have some swaps with Phoenix that could really pay off. If you think the Suns are going to be bad long term, as certainly One Justin Barrier does. And so if you want to bet against the Suns going forward, then the Grizzlies might be one of the teams that you call to do it clean.
- [09:43]
Justin Varier
Books as well, if only because, like, they had to extend a lot of their guys in years past. Now those contracts almost look like bargains to the point where, like Desmond Bain on the books for 36 million doesn't seem that bad. I know Jaren Jackson is due for another extension. Will probably get it this offseason considering what they did at the deadline. Basically opening up cap space in order to renegotiate and extend 23 million on the books for next year. That's incredible. And so they have to pay Santia, but they just get things right. Their draft pick success is better than most teams in the league, and they might even be the best there if you're to really go all the way, first round, second round with them. So I get the pick. I just had them just on the outside looking in.
- [10:25]
Big Waz
You hate Memphis. Is it barbecue? Is it the music scene? Is it Jaren Jackson Jr. Personally, what is it that you're holding against them?
- [10:33]
Justin Varier
I think Memphis is fine. You know, it's. It's a. Okay place. I don't know if I would like, put it on my list of NBA cities to live, but, you know, it's actually, it's a fun market. Really.
- [10:44]
Unknown Speaker
You would rob.
- [10:45]
Big Waz
I would live in Memphis. Look, I. You don't need to twist my arm to live in a southern state with warm weather and good food. Like, you know, I think there are some exceptions to that rule, but Memphis I think I would be amenable to.
- [10:58]
Justin Varier
Okay, was. Who do you have at number five?
- [11:02]
Unknown Speaker
My number five team are your New York Knicks. Go, New York. Go, New York, go. They're number five for me because again, I get it. Like, all of their main guys are paid up. Brunson on a value deal. Although, like, I think we overrated the value of it at the time. But on a value deal. But like, again, these guys are all under 28 years old, 27 years old. They're going to grow together, build more continuity. I think they need to add some different dimensions. I think they need to become a little bit more forceful on the perimeter somehow. Maybe Mitchell Robinson being back allows him to play a little bit more, you know, aggressive defensively on the perimeter. But even that being said, like, I think if they turned around and was like, oh, we need to try to get off of OG and do something with that, or we need to get off of Mikhail Bridges or, you know, anything like that, I think is completely easy and doable. And so, yes, they don't have the picks anymore and all of that stuff, but I think the talent that they have in house is so imminently flippable that they can go in different directions if they have to. And Jalen Brunson has just assumed the mantle of, like, Frank Capital F franchise player. Right. Like, he just embodies that shit so much. So I just think the future is in great hands for these guys. Bunch of good players already signed up, still pretty damn young. So, yeah, like I said, I value talent that is still young. And so the Knicks, for me, are my number five team.
- [12:43]
Big Waz
Yeah.
- [12:44]
Justin Varier
To that point. None of their core players, as we're recording this podcast, are over the age of 30 right now.
- [12:50]
Big Waz
Well, by the time it comes out.
- [12:52]
Justin Varier
On Thursday, Happy birthday, Josh Hart. You're now officially 30. It's one of the better young cores in the league. And obviously, we got to talk about the market muscle. Like, players want to play in New York and they specifically want to play at msg. They did, even when James Dolan was, like, had his fingers and everything and the team was just struggling. The fact that they could do that with a really poor product just shows you what they could be capable of. Now that they've kind of turned the page on that, I think they're just in a race against Tibs at this point, basically, as he's going to grind down some of these young, sprightly young fellows to the point where, like, they're going to start showing signs of aging at, like, 32, 31. I think it's definitely possible considering the long, hard minutes they're playing this season. But on the other hand, if they just had, like, another bench player, if they had two more reserves, I think it trickles down to the point where all your good players just get even better and you have them for a longer Runway here. So I had them squarely at number five.
- [13:44]
Big Waz
Yeah. The question about getting more bench players is how do you do it? Given the financial constraints that the Knicks now find themselves in, this is a very expensive team that does not have a lot of maneuverability because their core five are so good and are fairly well compensated. And so Woz is right. If you want to flip a Bridges or an OG or any component member of that, you can do it. Your teams are going to take your calls. They would love to get Mikhail Bridges or OG Anunoby on their team, but you're going to have to, like, compensate for Whatever you're losing with either of those guys, specifically on a defense that already I'm wondering, is this like a quirk that they're going to have to overcome or is this a fatal flaw in the design of this core of the team? Like, is it, is this going to be the kind of thing where they can ever be a championship level defense or are they going to have to make those changes? And that that combination where you may have to make changes and also you have severe financial constraints is just enough to make them more of an honorable mention for me. But we all love the core of the team overall. We love the potency of the offense, we love how these guys have found an ability to play together and certainly what Kat has brought in terms of the dimensionality of that offense. I love the Knicks. I just think that if we're, if we're comparing them to the Grizzlies, I see a little bit more to believe in as a long term project.
- [14:57]
Unknown Speaker
I love Josh Hart, if only because I just saw a clip from his podcast where he called out J.J. redigan, said he was lying about not having slept for two days before playing the Nuggets. He was like, man, that guy's asleep by 10:00pm every night.
- [15:11]
Big Waz
Um, just hard. The.
- [15:13]
Unknown Speaker
Just a great, just a great group of guys, man. And so just on the sentimental factor, like, I just have a deep affection for the dudes on this team. Um, and so, yeah, my number five.
- [15:27]
Justin Varier
I also think that like on the one hand they have this Villanova thing still going, even though they kind of throw. Throw aside Dante DiVincenzo before it even.
- [15:35]
Big Waz
I don't think they get to do that anym. I think once you, once you betray your brother, you don't get to claim the Wildcat pride.
- [15:42]
Justin Varier
Although it was pretty sick that like, I think they had like a GQ or one of those glossy New York magazines come out after they traded him and it was like everyone back together and it's like, nope. I actually almost wonder if that plays into their favor. So they're not going to be too precious about, for instance, Bridges. Isn't the lock solid? Number four, number five guy in this team, they can move them for spare parts. I will say one thing though. I think Rob is right that it is going to be difficult to maybe just generate bench players on the fly here, but you can't do that through your feeder system. Right now. They're like severely constrained to the point where they're counting every penny. Like next year. It's like, can we. The second Rounders, can we get guys up through the feeder system, but it is incumbent on them to basically get their Darryl, Daryl Mori on and find these guys in the way that they really haven't this year. They've been relying on the campaign types and other guys that just really haven't given them much. But you're going to have to because you need other guys to play other than your, your five starters. They're basically playing 40 minutes a game right now.
- [16:38]
Big Waz
The other part of that, that's kind of a problem as far as these kind of motivations working against each other in theory, to make those sorts of diamond in the rough discoveries. You want as many cracks at those kinds of players as you can get, right? You want like four or five different young prospects on your roster. You cycle them in, you see who works, you give them a little bit of burn here and there. And most importantly, you have a coach who is willing to trust young players with that kind of responsibility. If Tibbs is going to play these guys 40 plus minutes a night and he already doesn't trust young players, where is the diamond and the rough find going to come from?
- [17:10]
Justin Varier
It's true. I will also say that they are currently, as we're recording this, 19th on defense, which is quite poor and it seems like it's only getting worse as the season goes along. I wonder if fatigue is starting to play a factor there. They were slightly better than that. They were close to league average and I think that's all they need to get to in order for the offense to pop. Because as we've seen, the offense can just like put up 140 like it's nothing on a random Friday against a very good team. And so right now they are fifth on offense. I think they can easily be the top offense in years to come. So there's a lot to like about the Knicks. But Rob, did you have them on your list at all?
- [17:46]
Big Waz
I don't. They're an honorable mention for me.
- [17:48]
Unknown Speaker
Okay, so I guess you have no Eastern Conference teams.
- [17:53]
Big Waz
I have no comment.
- [17:55]
Justin Varier
Oh, let's go. Well, I have an Eastern Conference team in addition to the Knicks at number four. I'll go with my number four. I have the Orlando Magic, which honestly, honestly I struggled with because I do worry if the KCP experiment will only get them to like revert back into their shell and to do nothing except for like exercise the team option on Mo Wagner this off season. Or like, actually Gary Harris. You don't exercise it, but you extend him four more years with the team option on that year, like just there needs to be something new here. I think that is the one thing that this season has shown as their offense struggles to get up 80 to 90 points a game is that they do need a little juice. And I'm hoping that this kind of fall on their face experiment, a lot of it driven by injuries and other stuff, shows them that they need to go a little outside the system in order to supplement what they have. Because what they have is very good. Paolo, Franz Paulo needs to get extended over this offseason, I believe. But they have, with Suggs in the mix, there three players that would be the core of any really good team and any team would want to have. So I found it hard to not put them on this list because what they have already is so much of what I think a lot of teams are after.
- [19:04]
Big Waz
It's really true. I think the only thing that held me back a little bit from putting them on my list and I wrote extensively about the magic on the ringer.com this week. You can go read the feature that I just published on them and it's real. The core of it is this, which is there comes this tension point between the philosophy of the team you want to have and that's for the Magic, this big, physical, aggressive team that is trying to mash you out of games and then the need to progress forward, which for them stems at least from shooting and probably also from a slight shift in the playmaking structure of that team as well. That's a team that they did try the KCP route. He has not shot well for them at all. It's just. It just hasn't panned out in the way that they needed it to. That may nudge them more in a direction of going after a different kind of ball handler in terms of an offseason addition. I don't. I don't get the sense that the Magic are so precious they won't make moves. I just think that they are being very careful for the right move in the right moment, and that can look like a team being tentative, but sometimes it's just a team being prudent. Like they don't have unlimited pushes, right? They can only take so many big swings at this thing and they don't want to give up some young players who are pretty solid, if not at all perfectly fitting right now in order to make that happen. The only other big catch I have with the Magic is I love Jalen Suggs and the way he plays basketball. He gets hurt a lot and it takes A toll on him. It takes a toll on the team. We're seeing right now right in front of us what the magic look like when Suggs isn't out there, which is crazy.
- [20:28]
Unknown Speaker
Sometimes it's crazy how bad they are just because Jalen Suggs can't play. He's their best shooter somehow, like, and I'm talking about off the dribble movement, shooting, like he's kind of the only person on the team who was providing like that sort of dynamism on the ball when it comes to his shooting ability. And obviously he brings a toughness factor that is second to none. Obviously one of our hard hat guys. And so, yeah, him being young, them getting him on a good deal, that extension is looking mighty pretty these days. Is, is, is beautiful for them. They would just kind of just got cut off from my list, but I see the vision. We're putting them at number four for sure.
- [21:15]
Justin Varier
You're never going to believe this, but Jalen Suggs on a five year extension that descends and has a team option on the end of it.
- [21:22]
Big Waz
Look, they have a style. They have a style of contract resolution, that's for sure.
- [21:28]
Justin Varier
When it works, that's going to work like gangbusters. Like that's a credible extension if he's going to be healthy currently after the season with his quad injury. But there's a lot to like here. I just, I think they need that next move and I'm giving them the benefit of a doubt right now. If they don't do it next year, off the list entirely, they never get another look.
- [21:45]
Big Waz
I also want to say I think it's fair to go through this season and feel a little bit of growing pessimism, a little bit of resistance in Paolo's piece of this specific. Like he's had some real troubles with his efficiency. He's had some troubles like really applying his scoring in these games and trying to stretch out and be more aggressive. I'm not worried about that from a Paolo Banchero perspective. I think you clean out that lane and he looks like a totally different player all of a sudden. And so, so much of the Magic operates that way where you can find clips, still shots like watch a Magic game freeze frame. You will find four bodies around Paolo Banchero on any given possession. As soon as that evens out, I think he's. His game is really going to sing.
- [22:23]
Justin Varier
So who do you have Rob at number four on your list?
- [22:26]
Big Waz
I have the Houston Rockets at number four. Do you guys have the Rockets on your list?
- [22:29]
Unknown Speaker
Just, just got snipped from my list.
- [22:32]
Justin Varier
I have them at number two.
- [22:34]
Unknown Speaker
They're literally my number six.
- [22:36]
Justin Varier
Okay.
- [22:37]
Big Waz
We are just chipping away at JV's list along the way.
- [22:40]
Justin Varier
That's right.
- [22:41]
Big Waz
I think the only reason they're not higher for me in that 2 range is they don't have the guy.
- [22:46]
Unknown Speaker
They don't. So I don't see how people could pick them up over Memphis. Who has two of the guys?
- [22:52]
Big Waz
You know, they do have maybe two of the guys. I think. I think the difference is they don't have the guy, but they have a lot of stuff they could trade for the guy. Yeah, they have, they have everything else just about. And they. And those guys are all impressing within their relative roles. Right. We are getting the annual Jalen Green Post All Star break. Swell. We are, I think like legally not allowed to praise Amen Thompson anymore on this podcast. We have reached the limit of what the law will allow.
- [23:20]
Unknown Speaker
They're going to get a restraint training order at some point. The Thompson family.
- [23:24]
Big Waz
I think so. And I continue to be very impressed by Alper and Changu. Not just as a hub, not just as a scorer and a passer, but what he's doing defensively and what Ime Odoka is doing with him defensively. Like, Ime is a great defensive coach that has his team way ahead of schedule in terms of its professionalism, in terms of its discipline on defense.
- [23:42]
Unknown Speaker
Holding these guys accountable.
- [23:43]
Big Waz
Yep. And so you have the kind of steady foundation of the defense. You have the high upside guys, specifically in amendment. But even Jabari Smith, I would say is still such a wild card for this team where they don't know what to do with him yet. We'll see how much he ends up being a piece of things there. And then you can go out and get a Kevin Durant, you can go out and trade for another potentially high level star that comes available whenever the time is right. And it feels like that time might be quite soon if, if not this upcoming off season and maybe over the course of the year.
- [24:10]
Justin Varier
This episode is brought to you by. Indeed, successful season starts with picking the right players for your team. Like with the Boston Celtics, they've been able to put together a pretty good roster, pretty deep superstar driven two way players. They've got it right. And so if you want to hire the best players for your business and quickly, you need indeed their sponsored jobs help you stand out and reach relevant candidates faster. Plus, with indeed sponsored jobs, there are no monthly subscriptions, no long term contracts and you only pay for results. There's no need to wait any longer. Speed up your hiring right now with Indeed. Listeners of the show will get a $75 sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility@ Indeed.com Ringer MBA that's Indeed.com RingerMBA right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.comringermba Terms and conditions apply. Hiring Indeed is all you need. This episode is brought to you by Marvel Television's Daredevil. Born Again. Charlie Cox returns as vigilante lawyer Matt Murdock and Vincent D'Onofrio as former mob boss Wilson Fisk. The darker side of Matt Murdock is revealed when he gains a new perspective on his role as the Daredevil and faces an internal struggle between justice and revenge.
- [25:31]
Big Waz
The Devil's work is never done.
- [25:34]
Justin Varier
Born Again is now streaming only on Disney. Before buck Naked underwear, going out naked was a negative. Grocery shopping in the nude, a big no no. Sunday service in the buff, odd desk.
- [25:51]
Big Waz
Service and naked in the garage. Just odd. Turn naked into a net positive with.
- [25:58]
Justin Varier
Buck naked underwear and feel like wearing.
- [26:02]
Big Waz
Nothing at all anywhere.
- [26:04]
Justin Varier
Get buck naked at your Duluth trading store.
- [26:07]
Unknown Speaker
What I think is sort of bolsters both of you guys enthusiasm for their future, and mine too, is that they look so bad without Fred Van Vliet, which is like a knock, but also like they could get a guy better than Fred Van Vliet in there, right? Like, we have to believe that that's possible and like upgrading that will take them to new heights, man. Upgrading that like this, whoever's going to be the sort of focal point of ball handling and playmaking duties and adding some scoring punch I think will make these guys like a Devin Booker say, you know, if they want to blow Phoenix out the water and help their future along, you know, I, I, I think, I think they're so primed to become way better than what this is right now. So I get the enthusiasm about, you know, what they got going forward.
- [26:59]
Big Waz
Well, they're also a natural trade partner for Phoenix because they have Phoenix's 2027 first. They also back they have the 2027 swap with the Nets as well with their own pick. And this one is kind of crazy. Potentially they get the two most favorable picks between theirs, Dallas and Phoenix in 2029. So if the Mavericks go off the deep end like that's, that's beyond the scope of this current roster that the Mavericks have built, particularly now with Kyrie Irving injured. And if the Suns also end up going off the deep end in terms of that experiment falling apart. Maybe by 2029, Devin Booker is not even in Phoenix anymore. Those could be wildly valuable picks.
- [27:37]
Justin Varier
That's what I see. Like, not only do they have a young player context left over when they do trade, inevitably some of these other guys, they just have the right package in order to sway any team and they have the right motivation to do that. We talk about okc, like, will they ever make a move, considering that their feeder system is pretty meticulously planned out at this point and their books are so meticulously plotted out at this point? I'm not quite sure. But I know for a fact that what the Rockets need is a star. And it almost seems like they agree that they need to start, but they're actually slow playing it because they have everything in order to go out and do that. They're just like hovering over that button, ready to hit the hit it. And they could basically wait at least until the next year or so. I do think they're going to reach a point where they might have waited too long because some of the extensions that they're due are starting to come up. Jabari, Tari, Eason this summer need to get paid men. Thompson the year after that. And so you get pretty pricey pretty quickly. And even a guy like Jalen Green, who I think we would all agree is like mixed at best as like a potential player in this league or potential high level player in this league, at the very least making 33 million. And that's just like you can't carry that on your books if you're paying four to five of these guys, like guys who were drafted high make about that amount. So even someone like Jabari Smith, as we talked about, I think we like him.
- [28:52]
Unknown Speaker
Not sure in the 30s, he's a kaminga type who thinks he's. He should be getting 30, $35 million.
- [29:01]
Justin Varier
Exactly.
- [29:01]
Big Waz
That makes me a little bit nervous.
- [29:04]
Justin Varier
Yeah. But I think the fact that they're almost being choosy about like, oh, I don't know about Kevin Durant because we actually want to wait out Devin Booker. I think it just speaks to like what a good position they're in right now.
- [29:16]
Big Waz
They also have another guy who just like does not play for them. And we were reminded this week can fucking cook. And that's Reed shepherd, who is goddamn right stash, bro. There are teams out there that would still love to take a swing on Reed Shepherd. He's very small. He's going to have to overcome that his entire career. He's going to be kind of working against the grain. Sure. I think he's going to be a factor. I don't know whether it's for the Rockets or otherwise, but you would think if there is a star trade to swing, Shepard could find his way into it.
- [29:44]
Justin Varier
Do you remember we were so starved as, like, NBA consumers that we thought Stache Bros. Was like a totally hilarious thing with Stephen Adams and his cantor.
- [29:55]
Big Waz
We love a nickname. We love a group nickname above all. If you. If there's an organically created group nickname, we're going to latch onto it. It's just. It's tough sledding out there these days. I would love. Look, given the news climate this week, I would love a Stash Bros to cling on to.
- [30:11]
Justin Varier
Well, wasn't I are already Stash bros. You need to get out of the mix here. That's fair. Let me ask you this. After one good game of Reed shepherd, are you guys already like rethinking your draft boards from the other day when we redrafted the 2024 draft? Because I kind of am. No, no, no, no.
- [30:28]
Unknown Speaker
It's just one game. But, you know, I still remained freaking high on Reed Shepherd. I just let guys bully me into, you know, picking the Philly kid over him. But I, I'm, I remain, I remain very optimistic about that kid's future.
- [30:45]
Big Waz
I think it's okay to say that he's not going to be the third best player in that draft class. And also he's going to be a good NBA player. It's just going to be somewhere in the middle.
- [30:52]
Justin Varier
Yeah. I just wonder if he did play for a worse team that didn't need you to, like, grind out defensive possessions. If we would be thinking of him already as, like a top three guy, but maybe we'll see. This episode of the Ringer NBA show is brought to you by State Farm. There's a lot to say when buying a new home or car, but only one thing to say when you need help to protect them. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. A State Farm agent can help you choose the coverage you need. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. So was you've done how many so far? Two.
- [31:30]
Unknown Speaker
Well, yeah. So you guys have mentioned Memphis. That's my number two. The Knicks are my number five, and my number four team. Speaking of having the guy is the Los Angeles Lakers. To me, once you have basically a perennial MVP candidate and this guy is 25 years old, your future is going to be pretty bright. Of course, LeBron is not going to play forever. Despite what it looks and feels like on a day to day. If you're watching the freaking Lakers, are we sure, like, how and why can this guy be stopped? But even when they decide to move on, like, I don't know how you can put it in your head that they're not going to get another star to play next to Luka. Like, it's going to happen somehow. And the crowd, the fans are already completely bought in the Lakers. You know, local broadcast has already given them the nickname the Don. Luka the Don Wells.
- [32:31]
Big Waz
They tried this in Dallas too. This is. The Don is a bad game. Very, very bad. So bad, very bad.
- [32:37]
Justin Varier
We don't need nicknames. We always default to just like a first name or just like a shortened version of your last name. All nicknames are bad. That's the.
- [32:45]
Big Waz
Well, the Don is an attempted shortened version of his last name. It's just a bad shortened version of his last name.
- [32:49]
Unknown Speaker
Yes, I prefer the chitch. Or if you, or if your name is like Buzz or like, you know, Buster or like one of these. Yes, one of these. One of these weird like down south type of nicknames, then that'll stick. But yeah, man, to me, the Lakers got Luka Doncic. It's really that simple. He's 25, he's gonna be a perennial MVP candidate. And it's like he's one of these superstars who actually does elevate the talent around him.
- [33:24]
Big Waz
Yes.
- [33:25]
Unknown Speaker
Like, everybody becomes better. Their jobs become easier because they're playing next to him. And so like, you know, I don't know, like you could have like, say like Ant Edwards right now. He's a great player, great talent. I even thought about putting the wolves on my list simply because of Ant. But he's not an elevation superstar as of yet. He's just not. And some people, like producer Zay would say he's never gonna be that kind of guy that, you know, empowers his other teammates and makes them better. Luka's already that you don't need to nail every single transaction when it comes to filling out a roster next to this guy because he's that good at making things better. And you know, I'm. Look, I think people are getting a little bit crazy about the Lakers chances of going to the finals right now. Like, people are just like, oh, this is a championship team right now. I'm not there yet, but I don't. I think the path to getting there is crystal clear for the Lakers in the future. And so that's why they're my number four team.
- [34:23]
Justin Varier
Listen guys, I consider myself a man of nuance and this, this actual episode is, is a prime example of that. Where I want to quibble about the asset war chest, all this other stuff.
- [34:34]
Big Waz
I can't believe you. I can't believe you're doing this.
- [34:37]
Justin Varier
I would even tell you that it's a little suspicious that Shams is almost going on a world tour telling everybody how committed Luka was to Dallas. And that boy howdy, he's going to be committed to the Lakers yet again. We should mention Luka is basically at a one plus one after this season. He has one year, then the player option. So things could fall apart very quickly if things were to fall apart. But I'm so borne down by this fucking trade experience and the fact that like we're not that far away from the Paul Gasol experience where I'm just like, fuck it, just put them at 1 on this list because things are just going to happen for them. Guys are going to want to go there. LeBron is probably going to play till he's fucking 50, until his like daughter is actually in the league. Not only is two sons, it's going to be three of the four of the bronnies plus Luka Doncic starting lineup. And so I have met one because I, I can't like resist the fact that like they keep making things happen.
- [35:30]
Big Waz
I don't think you're allowed to put them at one after all the belly aching you've been doing.
- [35:35]
Unknown Speaker
I admit because the text to texture around the team. That's what I do.
- [35:42]
Justin Varier
I set you up and I zag.
- [35:44]
Unknown Speaker
Unbelievable this guy.
- [35:46]
Justin Varier
That's what they call me. The Dagger.
- [35:47]
Unknown Speaker
Unreal.
- [35:48]
Big Waz
They do call you the Zagger.
- [35:49]
Unknown Speaker
So Lakers are number two.
- [35:51]
Big Waz
I have him at number two. I just think like I share your slight hesitation was as far as ready made championship contender. I just like they're, they're really good. They're already one of the best defenses.
- [36:02]
Unknown Speaker
Jackson Hayes looks good.
- [36:05]
Big Waz
Luke has turned Jackson Hayes into a.
- [36:06]
Unknown Speaker
Player 20 in the first half the other day. That's insane.
- [36:10]
Big Waz
Turning Gabe Vincent into a player like everything you said about how he changes the way you build a team is true. And congratulations to the Dallas Mavericks for trading their way right out of this list because they would have been here coming off the NBA finals with Luka Doncic. You would have been on our future power rankings. Now there's absolutely no argument for it. The Lakers steal all of that valor and we just have to accept even as sometimes Lakers skeptics on this podcast, this team is inevitable. Like this is what they do. There is a slight hiccup in between contending championship level runs and then the next guy comes in the door and it just starts all over again. And you can say whatever you want about the, like, the mechanisms that make that possible and why it happens, but it happens. And right now the most popular team in the league in terms of the market that players want to be in and the glamour of a franchise that's long established and has an actual pull because of Kobe, because of Magic, because of Kareem, because of shaq, because of LeBron, on the players in the league. That team has Luka Doncic now and he's going to make you look so much better when you come play there. And so the only reason they're not at one for me is because LeBron is so good right now. And they will eventually have to come to terms with him not being this awesome every second. That time is not now. But at some point they're going to have to do it and they're going to have to do it with a couple of draft picks already out the door. They're going to have to do it without a lot of like hugely tradable pieces around that are going to get you a star in return. Unless Austin Reeves really starts popping off and he's been really good.
- [37:37]
Unknown Speaker
I just absolutely loves playing with Austin Reaves.
- [37:41]
Big Waz
They work well together. Like honestly, this team is for a team that has thrown Luka into the mix midstream, I think is starting to gel really, really well.
- [37:50]
Justin Varier
Yeah, those three and D guys that they acquired on the fringes like during Finney, they're just like perfect for what.
- [37:55]
Unknown Speaker
They want to do. Have you seen the Finney Smith on off numbers? It's like he just unlocks something within these guys, man, just to have like.
- [38:04]
Justin Varier
A ready made friend for Luka, like a familiar face like right there to greet him basically like the Tyson Chandler hanging out in the closet to greet Marcus Aldridge. How do you guys think people are receiving the Luka Lakers right now? I'm of the belief that when the playoffs get here, people are going to absolutely fall in love because as we've seen, people just love top heavy teams. The Warriors Cav slashes on and on. But right now a lot of my friends are just like casual NBA fans are like actually asking me if the league is fixed. And if anything it almost feels like they're turned off by the fact that this happened because they almost wonder if the Fix is in.
- [38:39]
Big Waz
Interesting. I see almost the opposite.
- [38:42]
Unknown Speaker
Once the playoffs start and this guy is making big plays and crowds are losing their minds, I think people are going to get on board with this thing quickly because Luca is another thing. It's like he's playing to the crowd already. Like, he is absorbing the freaking crypto.com arena energy and harnessing it in a way that just like, you know, basically nine games in. I didn't think it would be like this, but here we are.
- [39:12]
Big Waz
I think there's an element to it with the trade where it was so, like, lampooned so quickly. It was so obvious to so many people that this was a weird, bad, unfound, like, poorly conceived trade that there is, I find, in terms of when I'm just, like, gauging neutral reaction, people who follow other teams who don't have a dog in this fight, it feels like there's a want for karmic justice. It's like there's a want for Luca to succeed and the Mavericks to fail. And look, everything is falling apart for the Mavs right now. I don't wish that upon anyone who follows that team. It's. It's dark, dark days, but that's kind of what's in the air right now. It does feel like people want Luca to have his moment. And good Lord, when he goes back to Dallas in April, the app, the scenes that are going to come out of that game are going to be insane.
- [40:00]
Justin Varier
Yeah. And even, like, Luca was obviously one of the biggest stars in the league, but even, like, being on the Mavs, like, he would get, like, the late TNT game in the playoffs against the Clippers, where it's like, oh, people are interested, especially if you're NBA fans like us who are going to watch all these games. But, like, there wasn't that draw. There wasn't that mom factor. And I do think that is going to kick in when they, like, turn on LeBron and all of a sudden the best player in the world is right there playing next to him. But I don't know, it just feels like people are like. Like, are you kidding me? At least people that are fans of opposing teams. Like, I know a lot of Celtics fans are just like, we gotta go through this guy. I agree with you guys. So I had them at one, Rob, you had. You had them at two. You had them at four.
- [40:42]
Unknown Speaker
Four, Four.
- [40:43]
Justin Varier
Okay, So I think.
- [40:44]
Big Waz
I think all of our fours and fives are accounted for, so I think our next up is actually potential any of one of our threes. Whoever wants.
- [40:50]
Justin Varier
I only have my three left, so one of you guys should go.
- [40:54]
Big Waz
I'll go with mine. I've got the San Antonio spurs at three.
- [40:58]
Justin Varier
They're my three. Yep. Bingo.
- [41:01]
Big Waz
I'm tempted to put them at two, but it's hard to make a swing that aggressive when the reason to put the spurs higher is out. With a very serious health issue and we just don't know enough about it yet. And every indication points to Wemby being healthy and making a recovery by next season. We'll have to see what that looks like for him. Kind of what sorts of accommodations have to be made around a blood clot. It can be a long lasting thing, can be something that a player has to deal with for the entirety of his career. There's a wait and see uncertainty that makes it hard to put him. Put the spurs and Wemby over the teams that I have at 1 and 2. Mystery Team and the Lakers. That said, they have Victor Wembanyama now they have Dear and Fox. They have Stefan Castle, who is a dog among dogs. They have a lot of players that I think we can expect to get better. Right. Like you still have Devin Vassell, who I still believe in, Jeremy Sohan, who I think is still an odd fit for this team, but I think will get better. Even guys like Julian Shampeni I think will get better over time. And, and maybe most importantly, they have the 9th and 10th best odds for this upcoming lottery because of their pick. And Atlanta's pick come, that means altogether they have like a roughly 30 to 35% chance of getting in the top four of this draft. Holy fuck. If they, if they hit on one of those picks and not even with a Cooper flag, but just a top four talent and Wemby is in good health. They're just going to ascent.
- [42:22]
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, that's why they're actually my number one team. I just operated as if Wemby's going to come back 100% fine. And for me it's pretty simple. The kid's what, 21, 22 years old. He was on his way to winning defensive player of the year damn near unanimously. So he's the best defensive player in the league, averaging 24 and a half points a game. Which means, like he's going to be a 30 point scorer at some point. So you got a freaking 30 point scorer who is a defensive eraser who's under 22 years. Like, this is crazy. Like, to me it's really that simple. Like your defense is going to be top tier no matter what, as long as this guy is on the floor. Like we talked about Luka being a floor raiser for offenses. Wemby is that for defenses. Like you can put damn near anything around this guy and he will find a way to make that defense work. And so to me, like that's gotta be the number one future. Like we all think this guy's gonna be an MVP candidate every single year. He is a maniac competitor. You know, like put it like this, all of the things that Nico Harrison and them leaking about Luka Doncic and his work habits coming out of Dallas, it's the opposite of what you hear about Wembanyama and his work ethic and his dedication and his competitive spirit. He's just everything you want in a franchise player. And again, I, I'm just going to choose to believe that he's going to be back 100% healthy. So they were my number one team.
- [43:53]
Justin Varier
Actually just watched a bunch of Kobe highlights. He would be the perfect Mavs player. You guys did it. I probably would have had them number one if we knew about Wemby's health status. I also think if you look at their pick allotment, which has become a little bit of a side project for me, it's basically my part time job just like poring over pick protections. I do like their allotment of future picks better than most teams, maybe even Houston, but it's very close, if only because they have a nice little block of Hawks picks. So they basically controlled the Hawks future for the next three years, which I think is a really interesting strategy because the Hawks can't really wriggle out of this. Like even if they tank one year, like the next year or excuse me, if they get out of the tank one year, they're basically facing the same thing the next year. And so they really have them in a bind. Plus on top of that they have a Boston Fuser pick. Probably not much there, but they have a swap for Minnesota or Dallas in 2030, a swap from the Kings in 2031, which could be particularly juicy. And the one thing that's different between them and okc, who I think has more picks, I almost wonder if the value of those picks is better because if you actually look at OKC picks, a lot of them are protected because I almost feel like they start the trend earlier to the point where like a lot of teams were still protecting their picks. The spurs got in more recently where nobody's protecting any of these. So they have basically free reign on teams future, whereas OKCD is still having to navigate like, oh, maybe this pick falls into the top 13 so we don't get the heats one. So I think they have every little building block you want in order to put the right team around Wemby, including caps fees because they don't have a lot of contracts on their books outside of Fox and Fissell, who we could talk about. But like I'm kind of ready to be like, will you play well when the stakes are high as opposed to just when we're losing 20 games in a row. But other than that, I think they're doing an awesome job.
- [45:40]
Big Waz
I think so too. The picks conversation is interesting and I think some of it comes down to, as you outlined, Justin, the swaps that the spurs have are really, really valuable potentially. Right. They have a lot of opportunity to trade what we expect to be their low picks because the spurs with Wemby are probably going to be good sooner than later for, you know, Dallas down the line, Minnesota down the line, Sacramento down the line, Atlanta. In one of these off years, what Oklahoma City is doing is a little bit different and I think it has to do with sort of what their market is going to be because if you're trading to a lesser team, those teams want outright picks. They don't want to trade their potential first in a swap for the Wolves because they are probably planning to be bad at that point. And so I think the markets are just totally different in terms of the kinds of teams that they're going to ultimately be talking. Talking to.
- [46:26]
Unknown Speaker
Yeah.
- [46:27]
Justin Varier
So my entire board is off at this point, one through five. One.
- [46:31]
Big Waz
First thing we should at least mention, the coaching element is a huge question mark. We don't know what Greg Popovich's status is going to be going forward. I honestly don't really know what to make of Mitch Johnson and the job he's done yet. It's really hard to gauge a coach when they didn't have a training camp to put in their stuff and run the team the way that they want to run it. And so it's just kind of a shrug at this point. I don't know what to anticipate if they would say if Greg Popovich decides to retire, to step back to change his role in some capacity.
- [46:58]
Unknown Speaker
Is there a reason why he hasn't announced that he's retired?
- [47:02]
Big Waz
Well, he announced that he's not coming back this season, but I think he's trying to leave the door open to just come back.
- [47:08]
Unknown Speaker
Will he just be like a sort of like a Bobby Bowden type where he's just there as the head coach, but everybody else is actually doing the coaching. It seems like strange that he would come back from a, like a major stroke like this to coach an NBA team and, like, do all of that travel and all the crazy shit they got to do. Man, that's interesting to me.
- [47:29]
Big Waz
It's rigorous, stressful work being an NBA head coach. And whatever Popovich decides to do, that's his choice. If he does decide to step back, do they formally promote Mitch Johnson into the job? Do they go bring home one of the other pop disciples who's kind of, you know, dangling out there with another team run on their staff or even within their own staff? I have no idea what they would do. But then, so when you're thinking about, like, to me, our guy JJ Redick, I think, has become a plus for the Lakers. He. He has established himself as something that is adding to the future of that team, that is making these guys play hard. They play in a way that makes sense, like tactically, everything is kind of checking out for them right now. For the Spurs, I don't know what's going to happen. And this is a team that has a lot of developmental, developmental interests in a lot of different prospects on their roster. And with that, you want some stability in the coaching ranks.
- [48:15]
Justin Varier
So are you making the backdoor case that the spurs should hire a current podcaster in order to coach their team next season?
- [48:22]
Big Waz
Are you volunteering?
- [48:24]
Justin Varier
I was going to say was I was down to San Antonio.
- [48:28]
Unknown Speaker
I thought you were going to say Lou Will or something like that.
- [48:31]
Justin Varier
I don't think.
- [48:31]
Big Waz
I don't think Lou Will would be a good coach.
- [48:33]
Justin Varier
For the record, him and Chandler Parsons, co coaches of the San Antonio Spurs.
- [48:37]
Unknown Speaker
Let's go. Let's get it.
- [48:38]
Big Waz
A good hang. Does not a good coach make a.
- [48:40]
Unknown Speaker
Lot of partying for that team. I promise you.
- [48:44]
Justin Varier
All right, so who has any teams left at this point?
- [48:47]
Unknown Speaker
I have one team.
- [48:49]
Big Waz
Yeah, as do I. My number one was the number three. I'm going to guess that they're the same team.
- [48:54]
Unknown Speaker
It's the Denver Nuggets.
- [48:55]
Big Waz
It certainly is.
- [48:56]
Unknown Speaker
Come on, baby.
- [48:57]
Justin Varier
Jesus fucking Christ.
- [48:58]
Unknown Speaker
Denver Nuggets. They have Nicola Jokic.
- [49:03]
Big Waz
You can shame us, Justin. You can try to change the rules. You cannot stop us from picking the Nuggets.
- [49:08]
Justin Varier
Delete the pod. Delete the pod.
- [49:11]
Unknown Speaker
The only reason they're not my number one is because Jamal Murray, man, is so freaking up and down. If Jamal Murray is the only reason, that's it.
- [49:21]
Big Waz
That's It.
- [49:22]
Unknown Speaker
If Jamal Murray could be consistently close to as good as he was in the 23 playoffs, then this is a blowout to me. This is. This team is like a metronome. Like, they will get shit done.
- [49:38]
Justin Varier
What have we been watching this entire season? They're like, they're really good. What's best, they're very good in the west, third best. I think that, like, if they lost one of their top five players, they wouldn't have any other players to play those minutes because the bench is so thinned out by their ridiculous strategy of like trying to base it all on draft picks, but virtually none of these guys actually hitting to the point where like, they're. They're already capped. Christian Broad is, is very good, I will say.
- [50:06]
Big Waz
Yeah.
- [50:06]
Justin Varier
But here's the quibble, though.
- [50:08]
Big Waz
Very important caveat.
- [50:09]
Justin Varier
Very. That's true. I would say that's the other part of this is now those good players that they did hit on are two extensions and so they're already capped out to their eyes and now they have to both pay Brown and I assume, Peyton Watson. I don't know what else you're going to do except for bring Peyton Watson back. And as we just outlined, like, good young players make way more than they should. I could see Peyton Watson making like 15 to 25 million dollars a year.
- [50:33]
Unknown Speaker
I don't know what I get would be so wild.
- [50:37]
Justin Varier
To me, this is what like rotation level players do.
- [50:40]
Unknown Speaker
You're right. You're right.
- [50:41]
Justin Varier
I just don't know what they do. And like on the one hand, they have Russ come in. So like, oh, they did a good job finding something on the scrap heap and letting jokers turn him into something. On the other hand, Dario Saric can't play. And so they. That's one of their very few success stories. Just like going up. I guess Jeff Green would be that case.
- [50:58]
Unknown Speaker
Jokic. Jokic can't make bad centers into good ones.
- [51:01]
Big Waz
No. No matter his job.
- [51:04]
Unknown Speaker
What. So yes, that's tough.
- [51:06]
Justin Varier
That's the best way to put it. They have Jokic, but Jokic literally can't build the team around him.
- [51:11]
Unknown Speaker
It's.
- [51:11]
Big Waz
I think he kind of does, though.
- [51:13]
Unknown Speaker
I think the rust thing is proof of what I'm saying. You don't need to knock it out the park, man. You hit a single on a signing, Jokic is going to make this thing look way better than it has any business looking. And so for me, I can do all things through Nikola Jokic, who strengthens me. And so that's why the Nuggets are still number three. Brightest future in the NBA. My Serbian, Serbian lord and king Nikola Jokic. Love you, kid.
- [51:48]
Big Waz
This got very personal and very touching. Honestly, I appreciate the connection that you and Jokic have. Was. This is why they're number one on my list. I just think the floor with Jokic is so high. Right? It's so high. He does make role players better in a similar way, as we were just saying with Luca, but I would say an even wider variety of role players he gets the most out of. He's one of the most consistently healthy superstars in the league, which is if you're going to. If you're going to poke holes in the Luca argument and the John Moran argument in a lot of these other teams. Shows up, shows up. He's healthy. He plays huge minutes.
- [52:21]
Unknown Speaker
Absolutely. Father Justin, this guy, he takes his kids out to play catch. You understand? This guy takes his kid to the barbershop. He is a great dad.
- [52:32]
Justin Varier
And goes with his wife to the mall. Yeah, he's in a little chair.
- [52:37]
Unknown Speaker
And my dude. Oh, my God, anytime I go out with my woman, I'm just like, yo, where is the chair? Oh, my goodness. I cannot walk around this store for an hour and a half, dude. And what I love, too, about Jokic is, like, the Nuggets ownership. Let's face it, it's ownership being cheap as hell, which is why they couldn't field a more respectable supporting cast. And Jokic looked around and said, so you're telling me I just gotta drop 30, 35 a game and 15 assists and get every board and, like, all right, cool. I'll go out and do it. Fuck it. That's what it takes for us to win. That's what I'll do. It goes against everything I believe in as a basketball player in terms of a shared ownership and responsibility and the sort of egalitarian way of playing. Um, and he just goes out and does it, man. Like, this guy is the best. He's a no maintenance. He's not a diva like some of these other superstars out here. He's just great. I. I just. I just can't say enough about the guy.
- [53:35]
Justin Varier
Listen, Jokic isn't the problem. Like, it's the one thing I am not worried about with this team. If anything, it's basically everything else. If anything. Like, even. Even Murray is, like, one of the more bankable things here, because now it's 50 million. No, I just assume that he's just going to be bad for half a season, but I know he's going to show up once he star break happens. I mean, Michael Porter Jr. Basically only has two years left and so you have to figure that one now. Aaron Gordon going to be on a new extension that's going to be pretty cumbersome at this point, especially because he's not playing away. Although his plus minus numbers are kind of miraculous this year. I don't know if you guys have seen this. He basically has the same net rating as Jokic, so something to keep track of.
- [54:12]
Unknown Speaker
He's making all his threes.
- [54:13]
Justin Varier
And we could point to a couple guys that Jokic has breathed life into. Russ being the prime example of it. There are a couple guys on this bench that, that are basically dead on arrival at this point. Like what's going on with Zeke Najee? I know he's playing a couple more minutes now. I don't see him as a viable threes now.
- [54:28]
Unknown Speaker
Justin.
- [54:29]
Justin Varier
Well, good for him. I mean, when Strother going to click into place day? Ron Holmes is a big question mark. We'll see. He obviously couldn't play this year. So I don't know. And like, even if we look at like the free agent success, like track record, I just don't know if we've ever gotten the Jokic effect really take hold on the league where guys are targeting the Nuggets and being like, I want to go there. I just don't want to go to fucking Miami and just party when they're not playing for 10 minutes a game off the bench. Like, and more power to them. Whatever you want to do, that's fine. But guys aren't going to Denver first and foremost in order to, to go on a championship run at this point. Except for DeAndre Jordan, who's just like a good hang.
- [55:08]
Big Waz
He is a good hang. I mean, it doesn't seem like they've had during the Jokic era, a lot of like big expenditures to make. Right? This is a team that, especially now, the roster is pretty expensive. They don't have a lot to flex. They don't have a lot of financial capital to throw at people to say, hey, come play with this great team and get paid what you're worth. In the process, in addition to the financial constraints of the ownership, I should say, I just think you're being. You're glossing over the core of this team a little too much. Where Michael Porter Jr. Is playing the best basketball of his career this season, Christian Brown has been a fucking revelation. Like, he's been really, really good. And the highs of Jamal Murray are all star level. Highs that would go toe to toe with almost any of the non superstar guards that we've talked about today, if not exceed them. Like, he shows up in games that matter. He delivers in those moments. I believe in Jamal Murray. Aaron Gordon too. Like, he feels like he's been around forever. He's 29 years old, 29 years old for a rock solid defender who, as was said, is making every damn three this season. And so you have that, you have that core in house right now. And if you want to make dramatic changes and trade Michael Porter Jr going forward or trade Aaron Gordon going forward, you can do that and you can reconceptualize the team a little bit. But they have really good stability. They just need to work around the edges a tiny, tiny bit. And I will say this too, like, the, the Murray injury stuff worries me more than the Murray inconsistency stuff.
- [56:27]
Unknown Speaker
But I think they're related though, Rob.
- [56:29]
Big Waz
They are. A little bit. The Michael Porter Jr. Part of that, though. We're now looking at two, basically two seasons so far of MPJ being really healthy and quite good. And if he gets through this whole season intact and plays well throughout, it might be worth revisiting kind of how we think of him as far as being an injury prone player at the end of the day.
- [56:49]
Justin Varier
And let me just be clear here. I'm not necessarily critiquing the performance of those guys and how good it is to have those four. It's more about the money on the books for an organization that has been so prudent over the past couple of years. I'm actually curious now that KCP has done poorly, do you guys look at that move over the summer any differently?
- [57:07]
Unknown Speaker
Not really. Not really, dude. I think the context matters. Like, there's very few NBA players whose production isn't based around a context. Like, I think, you know, the situation in Orlando just hasn't been ideal for him, but I don't think he'd be stinking up the joint if he were still in Denver this year. I just, I don't know why I should believe that. I think, you know, for other. For most players, it's their, their production is heavily dependent upon their situation. And so I think that that KCP has come out on the negative side of that. I think Russell Westbrook, on the other hand, is coming out on the positive side of that. Right? Like, I think it does matter, the context. So I think, I think they should have brought him back. I just refuse to believe that that was a great thing that they did. Was get rid of kcp.
- [58:00]
Big Waz
Yeah, it was always kind of a why not both question.
- [58:02]
Unknown Speaker
Especially after like think about what you just said about Strother. You know, like that dude would not be getting tick if KCP was still on the team.
- [58:11]
Big Waz
I think it's, it's realistic and maybe possible that KCP is having some age related decline. Like he's just at that point in his career where that's a realistic thing. But he's been one of the steadiest three point shooters in the league for like five years running. And then all of a sudden the shooting falls off a cliff. That to me says aberration. It says it's a little bit fluky. It says that there's something happening here. I mean, obviously it's a huge life change, uprooting, moving to a totally new place, learning a new system, working with all these new players. And yeah, like the Nikola Jokic bump is real, but who KCP is to the Magic is not really relevant to who he would be as a nugget. And I think he would still be really good as a nugget if they had kept him.
- [58:50]
Justin Varier
I agree. I'm just worried that our guy Christian gets the offseason just, just looking for a new house, just like already puts the down payment down and all of a sudden here he is in, in Los Angeles playing next to Luca.
- [59:03]
Big Waz
The Luca, Austin Reeves, Christian Brown, Triumvirate. You see that?
- [59:08]
Unknown Speaker
Bring basketball back, baby.
- [59:11]
Justin Varier
Orchestrating all of it. I did have the Nuggets in my grouping of like honorable mentions. I had the Grizzlies Nuggets and I had the Timberwolves. Is like just on the outside looking in. Timberwolves are fascinating. It almost feels like they're in the process of like a two to three step move of recalibrating the team's timeline more to fit Anthony Edwards. But they're still kind of in the midst of that and I don't totally see the end of the tunnel. They have a pretty awesome young core with Edward McDaniels, especially considering how well he's been playing of late. You know, they need to bring Nikhil back. Dante DiVincenzo still there. But then like the older group, it's just like, are they going to be around for when this team really hits the gas pedal again? Are they going to get in the KD mix this year? What's going on with the Gobert? And so for those reasons, I have them just on the outside looking in.
- [59:55]
Big Waz
But they have Jalen Clark now. All problems are solved. They're fucking cooking. Derek Shannon. Like, honestly, like the young guys have given them a nice breath of fresh air in the middle of this season.
- [60:05]
Justin Varier
I do think that is like what a lot of kind of the Michael Malone type should almost look at. Because Finch was basically forced to play the young guys because he ran out of older guys because they just kept getting hurt and look what it's done to them. I just think, like, you cannot go eight deep for a rotation throughout the course of an 82 game regular season anymore. It's just like you got to throw the young bodies out at the very least to give a little bit of a zip to, to what you're doing there. And like, honestly, if the Nuggets had a little, like, if Malone was a little bit more open to playing through mistakes, I don't know, maybe Jokic could not play 35 minutes a game anymore.
- [60:39]
Big Waz
That's true. I also thought about the Pacers, thought about the Pistons.
- [60:43]
Unknown Speaker
I didn't. Pistons kind of. I didn't think about them.
- [60:47]
Big Waz
The Pacers are right back there on like a 48 win pace. That's not good enough for you? No.
- [60:52]
Justin Varier
Rob is going to like cut the ribbon for the Indianapolis 500. We're going to be like, I wonder why.
- [60:58]
Big Waz
I'm just, I'm just looking forward to when you guys have to explain again why the, why the Pacers are just like in the second round of playoffs in the Eastern Conference finals. Why? It's just like happening. And I'm going to be like, have you watched the last four months of basketball? They've been playing really well.
- [61:11]
Unknown Speaker
At no point this season have you thought to yourself, this is a Finals kind of team.
- [61:17]
Big Waz
No, I'm not saying that. But they are a good team and a young team and a team that can get better.
- [61:22]
Unknown Speaker
Do you think they have a realistic path to becoming a Finals type of team anytime soon?
- [61:28]
Big Waz
I think that is. That's the conversation worth having.
- [61:30]
Unknown Speaker
I think that's why they're not on my list.
- [61:32]
Big Waz
I think they are well positioned to win 48 to 52 games for a good, for a good chunk of time.
- [61:39]
Unknown Speaker
I don't poo poo that outcome, but nor should you. That's a great achievement though. Like, if we haven't. Talking about the best futures.
- [61:47]
Big Waz
Yep.
- [61:47]
Unknown Speaker
I'm talking about teams that can realistically say, like, we put our name on the table for a team that could win a championship this season and seasons going forward. I just, I don't see it for Indianapolis.
- [62:01]
Justin Varier
I don't like it on your List.
- [62:03]
Unknown Speaker
No, the Bucks were not on my list. It's just. They're too old. They're too freaking old.
- [62:07]
Big Waz
Giannis, though, still doing it, doing everything he damn well can. And I want to say, since Bobby Portis has been ruled out, ineligible to play because of a performance enhancing substance.
- [62:19]
Justin Varier
All of a sudden the Bucks on your thing there.
- [62:22]
Big Waz
Well, the Bucs look pretty good without Bobby Portis. Quite a. Quite a bit of an eyebrow raise as to, you know, this guy's getting up shots. He certainly plays a significant role within that team.
- [62:34]
Unknown Speaker
I was wondering, looked. I'm wondering.
- [62:36]
Big Waz
I have no comment on that. Well, actually, I do. It's been very Kyle Kuzma up and down. I think. I think we're both. We're both right on Kyle Kuzma somehow. But they have looked better despite. I'm going to say despite not having Bobby Ports.
- [62:53]
Justin Varier
Well, our. Our intrepid producer Isaiah Blakely sent us our list from last year. And I'm just noticing as I'm going through here, bucks at 4, bucks at 4. And then I'm looking at my list, which is just so perfect and beautiful.
- [63:06]
Big Waz
Yeah. What do you have? What was the rest of your list?
- [63:09]
Justin Varier
I had five Celtics, Nuggets, Thunder. Pretty good.
- [63:16]
Big Waz
And you betrayed the Nuggets.
- [63:18]
Justin Varier
Perfect. I would say.
- [63:20]
Unknown Speaker
Perfect.
- [63:21]
Justin Varier
I didn't betray. They betrayed me by pinching them pennies is what I would say.
- [63:25]
Big Waz
This is the thing about Justin is he will be in on you for exactly one season and if you meet his expectations, he's just going to jettison you even though you met them. And if you fail his expectations, he's also going to jettison you. He just. He needs a churn. This is a guy who needs the rotation in his life to live.
- [63:40]
Justin Varier
These takes are honest. They're not for sale. I'm not just giving them to the highest bidder in order to curry favor. These are real.
- [63:47]
Big Waz
These are real. I just worry what it says about you, you know, that kind of. I don't know that it's that, but I want you to live your truth ethical list.
- [63:57]
Unknown Speaker
Making Rob.
- [63:57]
Justin Varier
There you go. I would just throw out the heat as well. Just have to be acknowledged, if only because the market and they are kind.
- [64:04]
Unknown Speaker
Of nature, but they'd know where situation is. Wow.
- [64:08]
Justin Varier
Okay. Guys like Miami. Guys love Miami. I will believe in that like every. Every time I can.
- [64:15]
Big Waz
They are not close to the top five situations. There's a big. There's a big middle here where they are. Have no business being in the bottom five and they have no business being in the top five. And that is where the Miami Heat find.
- [64:26]
Unknown Speaker
Exactly.
- [64:26]
Justin Varier
I will say they're above the Pacers, though. Whatever. Whatever list we're on.
- [64:30]
Big Waz
They're so wrong. It's so wrong.
- [64:32]
Unknown Speaker
It's right.
- [64:33]
Justin Varier
It's correct. Ethical as well. All right, let's stop it there. Thank you to Isaiah Blakely on production. Thank you to Ben Cruz. We'll be back on Monday. Rob will not be here on Monday. So Wise and I will have to find another guest. Maybe Timothy Chalamet. Do you think he's free now that he's off the award circuit?
- [64:49]
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, he's done trying to win Academy, I think.
- [64:53]
Big Waz
No media appearances anymore because of that. Like your time has already passed.
- [64:57]
Justin Varier
Damn it. All right, well, we'll find somebody. But we'll be back on Monday. We will talk to you then.