← The Ringer NBA Show
The Ringer NBA Show
Gregg Popovich Steps Down as Spurs Head Coach. Plus, Future Possibilities for the Pistons
01:16:54
Loading summary
Transcript279 lines
- [00:00]
Howard Beck
This episode is brought to you by Acura's all new adx.
- [00:04]
Logan Murdoch
A compact SUV that isn't just built for one thing.
- [00:07]
Raja Bell
It's precision crafted for everything. Like hitting the road with available all wheel drive and staying connected thanks to Google built in.
- [00:14]
Howard Beck
Plus you hear your music at its best with an available Bang and Olufsen premium sound system. The all new Acura ADX. Crafted to match your energy. Visit acura.comadx to learn more.
- [00:27]
Logan Murdoch
Go. Google is a trademark of Google llc. This episode is brought to you by Indeed. Slow and steady doesn't always win the race. Like when Phil Jackson really needed a shot in Game 2 of the NBA Finals, he just gave the ball to Kobe and let him cook. And that helped win the game. If you're looking to hire someone fast, use Indeed. Indeed sponsored jobs. Get 45% more applications than non sponsored jobs. Speed up your hiring process right now with a $75 sponsored job credit at indeed.comringermba that's indeed.comringermba. terms and conditions apply. Hiring Indeed is all you need. What's poppin? Logan Murdoch here. Raja Bel there. Howard Beck, the curmudgeon in the cut. How's everybody doing? Good to see you, Beck. Hello.
- [01:17]
Howard Beck
That. That. That cannot be a permanent part of my intro. That just cannot stop it now. Nice to see you guys.
- [01:27]
Logan Murdoch
Oh, wow. You do the thing that coaches do when they. You do like Steve Kerr says when he says Kamika's not the doghouse and then he explains to the media why Kamiga's in the doghouse. That's what you just did right now. You were just like, I'm not a curmudgeon. Off. It's fine. It's really the. The secret of this show is there's actually three curmudgeons on the show and we just talk things out. That's. Roger, don't give me that look. Roger, do not give me that look.
- [01:51]
Cliff
What look?
- [01:52]
Logan Murdoch
The non curmudgeon. I'm not a curmudgeon, but I'm really a curmudgeon look.
- [01:55]
Cliff
No, no, no, no, no.
- [01:57]
Raja Bell
This is.
- [01:57]
Cliff
I am a self proclaimed curmudgeon. Like I've got. Yeah, I am proud of it.
- [02:00]
Logan Murdoch
Right?
- [02:01]
Cliff
And all its curmudgeonous.
- [02:03]
Logan Murdoch
Proud of it, right? Yeah.
- [02:04]
Cliff
Yeah, dude.
- [02:04]
Logan Murdoch
Fucking love it. All right, cool. I'm just saying you gave me a look like you ain't really out here.
- [02:08]
Cliff
No, I was giving you a look. It was. It was meant to be more of a confirmatory look, if that's a word.
- [02:14]
Logan Murdoch
Okay.
- [02:14]
Howard Beck
It Is now.
- [02:15]
Logan Murdoch
Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. All right. Speaking of curmudgeons, Mr. Greg Popovich is stepping down as coach of the San Antonio spurs and as. And now is the team president of basketball ops. This came right before the pod. We're talking playoffs in a second. But I brought this to Howard at first. And Howard, what do you think of this? We kind of started the discussion on what this means. But what does this mean in your interpretation? Based on everything we've heard this season and saw this season, both behind the scenes and in front of the camera and all in between, what does this particular move mean for the spurs going forward and Popovich as a whole?
- [03:00]
Howard Beck
I mean, we're going to wear out the term end of an era by the end of this podcast, by the end of the next week. Like, I just don't even know how you possibly speak to encompass describe the totality of Gregg Popovich's impact on the spurs, the league, basketball worldwide, hell, even politics and the intersection of sports and politics. Like so many dimensions to Gregg Popovich. And he has been. Guys, I've been covering this league for 28 years. I can't remember a time that it. That Popovich was not an integral and front facing part of this league. So, like, in some ways, this is not the same as, like, when David Stern retired as commissioner. Of course, that's a different station, but I don't know, maybe it is. It may be just as big in terms of the actual basketball. It is hard to imagine the NBA without Pop. His influence, his voice, all of it. The curmudgeonliness. Now I'm inventing words, Raja.
- [04:00]
Logan Murdoch
The Webster's Dictionary episode of Real Ones is upon us.
- [04:04]
Howard Beck
It's expanding by the second. You just. It's hard to imagine the NBA without him, period, on every possible level. So you just have to start there. But I will also just say this. I'm not surprised this is where this landed. From the moment the stroke happened, obviously earlier in the season to the vague health scare of a couple weeks ago, I had been talking to people who know him well, even within the last couple of months, who, without saying it definitively, made it pretty clear to me they did not expect him back. But I think everybody's being very respectful of Pop. He has earned that. Take all the time and space you need to make this decision. But I don't think we should be surprised at the outcome.
- [04:43]
Logan Murdoch
Yeah, I think, I mean, when I think about this season for him and also, like, I know there was a couple of people that I talked to not like in depth in his circle or whatever, just a league wide or whatever. When he signed that five year contract to coach Wemby, even that was a little bit of surprise. Right? Like that he was going to go all in on this commitment as a coach. And there, there was a sense that there's like really no riding off into the sunset with Pop. Like he's going to coach till it's over. And I just wonder how he's going to adjust to the front office role and what that actually means. Right, because R.C. buford is, is also in the mix. There's also an established front office culture with the spurs that he is a part of. Exactly. Yeah. Like what is his role going to be as he fits into this new ecosystem where there's a big difference between coach and GM and front office member. Right. And he kind of tackled that line in the Bill Belichick way. But I'm just wondering how it's going to be an adjustment. Do you have any idea how it would be an adjustment if you had to guess, Howard, of him just strictly being a front office person right now? I know what it will be like not coaching every day, cause that's his passion. But like the day to day work of a front officeman, how that will lead to its sort of transition for him.
- [06:07]
Howard Beck
You know, I think sometimes it's really difficult for a coach to step away and be something else. Right. We saw Phil Jackson, if infamously I would say move into the front office with the Knicks because he just couldn't physically coach anymore. He like he wanted to be on the sideline and in lieu of that he says, well I'll, I'll go try to run a team. But he wasn't really suited for it. It wasn't the right role and it didn't go well. To be clear, Pop, it's different because there's really no choice in his case either. But Pop has always been both president and coach for as long as I can recall. And so the aspect of strategizing, of putting together a team, of managing talent, of scouting talent, of having the long view and just understanding the mechanics of how to construct a team and having people that he's worked with, I mean in R.C. buford's case for decades and in Brian Wright's case for many years, like this is Pops organization, right? Like the Holts own the team. But this is Pop's organization and has been for so long that I'm glad he is at least hanging onto that piece of it, the front office piece of it. Because everything that we talk about spurs culture, the spurs dynasty, the Tim Duncan era, Manu Ginobili, Tony Parker, through to Kawhi, Leonard, Wembanyama, like all of this, it's Pop's DNA all over it, right? Like Pop and Narse Buford will be the pop to tell you there is no spurs culture or dynasty without Tim Duncan. We're the lucky ones who got to draft Tim Duncan. They will say that they are very humble about that. But you have to set the agenda and you have to instill what the values are from the franchise's perspective too. And Pop is a very, as we know, powerful voice and that has mattered for a long time. And I think it's important that he's still there, not just as some figurehead, but as a day to day voice and resource, as whether it's Mitch Johnson or whoever else becomes the head coach as they move forward. Having Pop there, I think it matters kind of in the same way the ringer produced the Celtic City documentary, which is wrapped up. Red Auerbach.
- [08:20]
Logan Murdoch
Yeah. One of the things that's what I've thought about.
- [08:23]
Raja Bell
Yeah.
- [08:23]
Howard Beck
One of the things that really struck me in watching Celtic City was how many franchises have a guy not just who is tied to your glory days.
- [08:30]
Logan Murdoch
If you had glory days. I thought that Red Auerbach owned the Celtics. Like, I literally thought that he was the principal owner of the Celtics till he died. And you know, I was like 11 when he died, but I still thought like it took to meet him dying to be like, oh, he actually isn't the owner of the Celtics. That's someone else. Yeah, that's how you had it.
- [08:49]
Howard Beck
Pop is their hour back. He is, you know, in some ways, the heart and soul and conscience and their history. And so that's really rare. You know, like Jerry west was that for the Lakers for a long time, having won a championship with them and having gone from, you know, player to, you know, head of basketball ops for decades. But it's really, really rare to have that kind of continuity with one person who embodies what your franchise and all of its success is about. So I think it's really important and it's great that Pop is staying on in whatever role that becomes.
- [09:27]
Logan Murdoch
Raja, honorary Spur. Raja Bell, what are your thoughts on this?
- [09:34]
Cliff
I mean, Howard, Howard said it very well. I think I would just add, he's gonna do whatever he wants to do. Like, that's, you know, in terms of the role you asked, what would he play in the organization? I mean, they're so Buttoned up and so kind of like, I mean, they're, they're like really, well, kind of woven together as an organization. Right? So, like, fitting Hitman to a role is not going to be difficult for them in that, in that front office, whatever that becomes. And it'll probably be whatever he kind of wants it to be. And more importantly, I think even than the basketball, I would just say, like, he's, he's too good of a, of a human being and a mind and a person to risk the health anymore if you're having. That's a high stress. Coaching is, you know, amongst a lot of things, a very, very high stress, you know, gig. And doing it for as long as some of these guys have done it is remarkable. I've coached only youth level basketball and high school. And when I tell you that my stress level is exponentially higher during the parts of the year when I'm doing that than it is when I'm not, like, that isn't like hyperbolic. Like, I am really stressed out. So at 76 years old, for everything he's done for the game, for everything he's done for people in the game, myself included, I think it's time, if the health is an issue, it's time get involved in another way because, you know, people want him around.
- [11:09]
Logan Murdoch
Roger, do you ever, like, all your friends play for the spurs and you try it out for the Spurs? Is like, when you see the spurs, is it like that, that Dante DiVincenzo commercial that comes on where, like, you know, he walks away and he, they have to throw him the hat and, you know, I'm fuck Spurs. Oh, okay. All right.
- [11:27]
Cliff
That's what I'm Affectionately. Affectionately. No, no, no, listen, I think anybody would tell you, clip that shit.
- [11:38]
Howard Beck
That's some spurs son stuff coming through right there.
- [11:41]
Cliff
Fuck them. Fuck them. But anybody given the opportunity to have a chance to play for them and having like, squandered it because, because you probably weren't ready would tell you, man, it would have been dope. I would have loved to have been a spur, even if it was just for a fraction of real NBA regular season time. I just thought that who I wanted to be, you know, not necessarily who I was, but who I wanted to be was, was aligned with what they were, right? Like, I aspired to be that kind of player. Like, I, I, the DNA of who I had to be to play in the league. And pop said as much to me later in my career. Like, we'd always have our exchanges before the games. I Think I could have fit well there, as it were. I was a year too early, probably maybe even a year and a half too early for my skill set to be ready to help them. But I still cherish the time I was there. It was still great. I was able to rub elbows with hall of Famers and work out with Avery Johnson at Life College over and over again. And honestly, I don't get to play. I tell this when I speak at camps. And, like, I do the motivational speaking thing once in a while. Like, Gregg Popovich is the only reason I wound up in Philadelphia.
- [12:58]
Logan Murdoch
Did he make a call? Right.
- [12:59]
Cliff
Him and Larry Brown were like best friends. So, like, I don't wind up there, which starts my whole career if. If Pop doesn't make the call. So, you know, I owe them a lot.
- [13:10]
Logan Murdoch
Yeah. Yeah.
- [13:12]
Cliff
I'm still Fuck Spurs.
- [13:14]
Logan Murdoch
Even after Timmy. Even after Tim Duncan came on this pod and said, you're one of us.
- [13:19]
Cliff
Nah, I'm telling you, like, it's. It's weird, right?
- [13:22]
Logan Murdoch
Like, Howard, he. Tim Duncan came on his podcast and basically was like, you're an honorary Spur. You're part of the family. It got only time. Only other time I've ever seen Roger like this was on the Ben Stiller episode. But he got a little choked up. He was like, thanks, dude.
- [13:35]
Howard Beck
Little miss, little Misty Eyed Raja.
- [13:37]
Logan Murdoch
Yeah, he got out of character.
- [13:38]
Cliff
He was like, they're the gold standard.
- [13:40]
Logan Murdoch
Thanks, dude.
- [13:40]
Cliff
They were like, yeah, I would. I mean, and not for nothing, you are right. Like, I was cool with a lot of those dudes. Like, a lot of dudes that were left over kind of remembered me from being in their training camps. I mean, I was the last cut. Like, I think were you, like, the.
- [13:56]
Logan Murdoch
Little homie a little bit like this? The little. Cause you're a rook around that time, right?
- [14:00]
Cliff
I was a rook and I was the last cut. So I think some people had started to wrap their mind around I might be a Spur. And so for a lot of reasons, like, yeah, man. But, like, when you think of. Or when I think of the people that. When I walked into a building and they were coaching against us, like, that figure and what their team represented loomed, like, larger than the game itself. Like, the spurs were that, the Lakers were that. There weren't many teams that were that.
- [14:31]
Logan Murdoch
Yeah.
- [14:32]
Cliff
Like, it's a weird thing to say. I don't know if I'm doing it any justice, but, like, when you go into games, it's not that you're. It's not that you're like, Intimidated by the team because, like, we can't do that. We got to come out here and play the game. But the franchise, the coach, the mystique behind it, like, the things that make it even more special when you play against them, if that makes sense. Like the spurs, the Lakers, I mean the Knicks, for obvious reasons. It wasn't really the teams, but it was the building. But there are few of those. And the spurs were always that.
- [15:01]
Howard Beck
Yeah, Raja, real quick, Logan, I know we need to get to playoff stuff, but like, Raja, we think of, like, Pop as being the consummate old school coach. We talked about him being curmudgeonly and crusty and all this other stuff, but, like, I've always looked at him as being able to, like, do both. Where he's also the guy who, after he chews you out, puts his arm around Tony Parker and, you know, and talks him back up and stuff too. I'm curious, like, in your time, do you think, like, players regarded Pop as, like, is that a guy you wanted to, like, avoid? Did some players want to avoid him? Because it was like, no, he's too, too much the old school hard ass, which doesn't play as well in today's NBA. And then to that point, literally today's nb because you've been out for a while now yourself. Do you think that that model is going by the wayside? Do you think today's players were maybe looking at him going like, I'm not sure if I, if I want to deal with all that comes with that, as brilliant as he is.
- [15:52]
Cliff
Yeah, that's an interesting question. I do think that even when I played, there would be some, there would be people that didn't know him, Howard, like, that didn't spend time with him, that could see the gruff kind of exterior and be like, yeah, I don't know if I want to do that. But you have to experience him to know that. Like, yeah, that, that's part of it. But the other part of it is it far outweighs, you know, that superficial level, right? Because, like, there's, There's a care that he has for you. There's a human being there, there's a depth of knowledge and there's a real psychology behind what he's doing. To your point, like, you ever seen Tim Duncan, like a player of Tim Duncan's level?
- [16:31]
Raja Bell
He.
- [16:32]
Cliff
I'll never forget it. Popovich pulled this man out in the first minute of a playoff game. I believe it was a playoff game. Don't quote me on that. But it Was it did happen. He pulled him out in the first minute of the game, reamed his ass out at the scorers table and sent him back to the scores table to check back in. I was like, oh shit, he just did that to Tim Duncan. But like he had, he had invested in you so much at that point that like even the Tim Duncan's of the world were like, yeah, man, that's cool. Because like our relationship is that strong. So I do think that there were people that would not know that because they didn't experience that in today's NBA. Yeah, I think it's harder to do it obviously with our player today and just our kid in general, but I also think if we're being fair, Pop, as you get older, I know I'm experiencing this, you have less patience and as I have more kids, I have less time to be like explaining the things that I explained to maybe the first one because I'm tired, like I'm a little more fried. And so if you compare, if you, if you combine those two, like maybe he's not the exact same person that he was like 10, 15 years ago. I mean it's still probably, you know, you know, he's all time, but like, you know, it's, it's difficult, Howard. Right. You would have to be even more accommodating for today's player in a way that Pop, as he got older, was probably a little less accommodating.
- [17:54]
Logan Murdoch
Yeah. And then on that note, Mitch Johnson has been the assistant. Mitch Johnson has been hired as head coach of the San Antonio Spurs. So big day in the history of both the league and the San Antonio Spurs. Let's put a bow on that. I'm sure we'll talk about Pop a lot throughout this podcast in the coming years and months. I want to talk about the Knicks. The Knicks and the Pistons first. And we'll get to a little Clippers talk and some other stuff I want to get to throughout this pod. But we talked about at the onset, me, Raja and Howard, that this series was predicated on poise and the team with the most poise was going to win this series. And that held true in game six, where it felt like Detroit was thought they were there for the moment, but ultimately was not there in the last minute. And I feel like everyone who watched this series won it. It just happened that the Knicks got through. I'll start with Howard. What were your thoughts on this series and what did game six teach us about both teams?
- [19:06]
Howard Beck
I mean, I think we all thought it was going to be like Knicks in six or seven. Right. I don't even remember what our predictions were on the fly a couple of weeks back, but, like, except Cliff, we thought the Pistons were going to smoke.
- [19:17]
Logan Murdoch
We'll get to him in a second.
- [19:18]
Howard Beck
I mean, listen, let me start on the Pistons side of it because we'll have time to talk about the Knicks for the next couple of weeks at least. The Pistons, I thought they really showed a lot. They did get this thing to game six. Not only did they get this to game six, but they're, you know, it's a player two away from winning it and forcing it back to the Garden for a Game 7. Not only that, but aside from Game 1. So they're in Game 1 into the fourth quarter, and suddenly you blink and it's a 21 Zip Knicks run and the Pistons are suddenly not in it. But what happened after that? The Pistons win game two at the Garden. This young team steals home court advantage. They lose two games at home in three and four, but both of those were decided by, like, razor thin margins. They lose five a game they could have won. Like, all of them went down the stretch. So, like, aside from the first loss, all of these were really close games. I think the final three losses were by six combined points. And when you're a young team that's prone to making errors or freezing up at the wrong moment in a tight fourth quarter, yeah, that's, that's what happens. A player two is going to kill you. But they were right there and they weren't even whole. Right. Isaiah Stewart didn't play most of the series. Jaden Ivey, of course, has been out since January. The Pistons, like, there's nothing negative coming out of this. This is a team that just broke through, had their best season in forever, tripled their win total. Cade Cunningham's a fricking stud. Duran is on his way. Thompson is on his way. I just thought they were really impressive across the board. The Knicks did what they had to do. I think the Pistons stressed them to the limits and I think they very easily could have lost this series. And I think that even as I've made the rounds with some, some of my friends who are Knicks fans the last, you know, couple of days, they're, they're, they're a little antsy. Not, not just, not just Ben. They're, they're antsy. And I think there's kind, almost a, an acceptance. They all kind of like, there's, they hope they can beat Boston. They don't expect to beat Boston fans. I'm not saying the snicks themselves, just the fans.
- [21:20]
Logan Murdoch
I mean, as an, as an observer, I don't think they'll be Boston. I think they're just matchup wise. They're not there yet. I'll just say Boston in six. But what I wanted to get to. And specifically, and I want to get to Raja on this about that 6 game. It's specifically down the stretch, right where it reminded me a lot of the game six of the 2010, the 2010 first round series against OKC and the Lakers. And I know it's a little bit different context of like a champion and things like that, but it's more of how the game went in the two types of teams and where they were in their trajectories. I'm not Bronzer's giving me a look and yeah, I can't.
- [21:58]
Cliff
I just couldn't. My bad. I couldn't remember. Explain to me what happened in that because I have no idea.
- [22:03]
Logan Murdoch
2000 pretty much, honestly, to a T. Exactly. What happened in this game is game six in 2025 where the younger team, OKC, they're playing in OKC down the stretch, are just giving the Lakers everything that they can give. And it comes down to a pal Gasol tip in layup to win the game off of a, off of a. I think it was a Kobe airball pass or something like that. But it was the same kind of context in the younger team that's up and coming, pushing the older team to the limits. And the older team is like, yo, we got to win this game right now. Because game seven is not promised at all based on how good these, these young Bulls are. And I want to get back to the. And I want to get back to that final minute in the 2025 first round where, you know, Azure Thompson, like is a monster on defense throughout the whole game. And then it comes down to this game, this play against, against Jalen and you know, Jalen just has the upper hand. What I want you to do, Raja, is just take me through both sides of that where you have the young player that is really, really good and a young team that's really, really good. And they don't know what they don't know. Going up against a player that is accomplished in Brunson and has been to not the mountaintop, but has been to really high heights in the league. What are both players feeling in that moment? Like, how does one player have the institutional knowledge and use that to his advantage? And how does the Ignorance is bliss. Player play this hard out and try to use that to their advantage in that moment. And how do we get the moment that we got last night, bro?
- [23:44]
Cliff
I don't even know what. I don't know how to answer that question. I don't.
- [23:51]
Logan Murdoch
I gotta challenge you, bro. I gotta challenge you, man. Locking you in, dog.
- [23:54]
Cliff
No, I don't.
- [23:55]
Logan Murdoch
I went from over here to here to here.
- [23:58]
Cliff
I'm trying to unravel. Give me a second. Let me.
- [24:02]
Howard Beck
All right, Logan's got that bulletin board going with all the strings attached, connecting everything. Now you got to make sense of it all. Raj.
- [24:10]
Logan Murdoch
Let's do it.
- [24:11]
Cliff
I would say that, you know, I felt for a sore in the moment. I was sitting. I was sitting there. We had. We. We had Coach Milwe here from Texas, and we were kind of like. We were watching, talking, like this was going to be like kind of the first watch of it. And right when Cade. They had the ball tied and Cade went to the basket and missed it. This was after the tip in, I think when Brunson missed and, you know, they tipped it in. I said, damn it, man. That's right. Then I started. I felt terrible for him. And I said it out loud. I was like, oh. I was like, he's going to kill them. And they were like, who? I was like, jalen Brunson is going to kill them. Like, he's going to. He is going to. He is going to make this shot. And I felt terrible for a sore because as soon as they came out and gave him the ball and there was nothing around him, I know that feeling. That is. That is. I mean, like being in that gym with nobody in it, you're, like, alone. It's quiet, the seats are black. Like, you could really feel him in that space. Because, you know, at a tied situation, everything's at his disposal. Like, he, He. You know, in certain situations, you can. I don't know, by process of elimination say, okay, I can kind of try to predict that this might happen. Any little edge you get like that as a defender is critical in that situation. Everything's available to him and he gets to his left hand. The only thing I might have said to him was I might have tried to make him move right to start right. Because once he moves left, as explosive as he is, you gotta react. And as soon as he reacted, he snatched him. And that was it.
- [25:54]
Logan Murdoch
That was so disrespectful, bro. It was so disrespectful.
- [25:58]
Cliff
Even before he shot it, we were like, oh, shit. There it is, right. And so, look, I'm not.
- [26:02]
Logan Murdoch
He was in downtown Detroit when he got at the beginning when he was locking him down, and he was down by the airport when he got shook, bro. Yeah.
- [26:10]
Howard Beck
No, but that's a long way, as we know.
- [26:12]
Raja Bell
Yeah.
- [26:12]
Cliff
And I felt terrible, though, because, like, that's just a really, you know, that kind of is. That is who Detroit is right now. Right. Like, scrappy as hell, game ready to go. Like, we're going to fight you tooth and nail. But you got some stuff to learn, right? You got, you. You have. You have some. Some wounds and some scenarios that you're going to have to go through and learn from on your way to where you ultimately want to go. And while it sucked for them, that's just the reality of who they were as a team. Right. And then on the flip side of that, the Knicks, I would say just what you do better as a more experienced team in a situation like that is execute. And that doesn't always mean, like, you're going to convert the bucket. It doesn't always mean you're going to. It doesn't always mean it's going to show up on a stat sheet, but you're going to execute what you're trying to do. Like the box out on the Jalen Brunson shot we missed there, that's a critical box. Like, that's a critical box. And I'm not here telling you that lost the game. That's not what I'm saying.
- [27:15]
Logan Murdoch
Or like that after that free throw, the ball goes off of you when you're supposed to get a rebound. As you know, just like simple stuff like that.
- [27:22]
Cliff
There are some things.
- [27:23]
Howard Beck
Throwing away the inbounds pass twice in.
- [27:25]
Cliff
The series, those things are executionally like, like critical. Especially late in games. Even the last play of the game where a good play was made on that ball, it wasn't executed cleanly. You could see that before they started the process of whatever the play was before the inbound, like. And those are just things you have to learn. I don't know if I answered your question, but it was just. The theme was, we're in this dogfight. Like, this team surely has a chance to beat us and could easily be winning this series. But if we get you down to two minutes, we know we're going to execute better than you guys will more often than not. And that just played itself out.
- [28:04]
Logan Murdoch
Cliff, come to the. Come to the stage really quickly. Any final thoughts? Sir, I know you got your. But you took your buffs off your fur Is somewhere. Your regal is in the Isn't. It's in the shop.
- [28:22]
Raja Bell
Nah, I take my buffs off, man. It's still three one. Three all day. That's my second team for now, you know, hopefully we can get an upgrade.
- [28:29]
Logan Murdoch
You had to root for Tobias Harris for two weeks.
- [28:31]
Raja Bell
Yeah, right. Think about that. Tobias Harris, the guy who scored zero points his last playoff game as a Sixer. And I had to end up rooting for him to go against Cat against the Knicks. But look, man, I just wanted to be right. I was hoping to break Ben Stiller's heart. He came on here popping his shit, man, and the Knicks pulled out. Look, man, the Knicks pulled it out. Jalen Brunson, he crossed up Thompson for that crazy three pointer at the end. Malik Beasley, rock hands, you know, I mean, he had the rock. My man had the rock hands. Couldn't catch the ball properly.
- [29:02]
Logan Murdoch
Somebody. Somebody sent me. Somebody sent me a meme this morning about. About Malik, about Beasley, about Beasley. It says Malik Beasley in the fourth, zero points over two field goals and 10 butterfingers. Giannis was right.
- [29:20]
Raja Bell
Okay, but look, Detroit got a bright future, man. I'm rocking with the 313, bro. Shout out to side of baby. Shout out to Babyface Ray. Shout out to Big Sean.
- [29:30]
Logan Murdoch
All rappers that Howard and Raja know all the words to every song T Grizzly.
- [29:36]
Raja Bell
You know what I mean? Shout out to my guys in Detroit.
- [29:38]
Cliff
I know.
- [29:39]
Logan Murdoch
Oh, okay, okay, okay. All right.
- [29:45]
Raja Bell
Shout out 313, man. Detroit, you got a bright future, yo.
- [29:48]
Logan Murdoch
Yes, sir. Fanduel is letting you get in on all the NBA playoffs action right from the first tip. Because right now, all customers get a no sweat, same game parlay every weekend when you bet the NBA playoffs. That's right. Just use your token on three plus legs. Same game parlay or same game parlay plus on any NBA playoff game and you'll get bonus bets back if you don't win. Let's take a look at the slate. There's only one game I'm taking. The warriors taking the over, taking the overall points with Stephen and taking the under on points for Jalen Green. And I love betting on FanDuel. With their great promotions every day, their safe and secure app, and instant payments, there's no better place to bet on all the playoff action than America's number one sportsbook. Visit fanduel.com ringermba and get a no sweat, same game parlay every weekend of the NBA playoffs. That's FanDuel.com ringer NBA FanDuel. Official sports betting partner of the NBA must be 21 years in present in select states or 18 and present in D.C. optim required. Minimum three leg parlay required. Refund issued is non withdrawable. Bonus bets that expire seven days after receipt. Max fund $5 unless otherwise specified. Restrictions apply including token expiration. See terms@sportsbook.fanduel.com gambling problem. Call 1-800-gambler or visit rg-help.com let's quickly get to this Game 7 between the Clippers and the Nuggets. I'm really excited about it. Really. I came on this pod, I texted Cliff, and you know, whenever I text in a prediction, it goes the other way. I was like, man, Clippers about to fumble this. Because I was. I thought I was. We were gonna laugh at the Clippers for 30 minutes, but the Clippers figured it out and they're going to a game seven. Let's just quickly preview this Game seven. Like, do like five minutes on it. Howard, are you. How are you feeling going in this Game seven? Who do you think can pull this out? And like, how many demons do the Clippers need to exercise to win this game seven? And how many will they once they. If or when they do win this game seven?
- [31:47]
Howard Beck
All the demons. I don't know how many demons there are. There's like an army of them. It's like something out of like, just like Lord of the Rings orcs coming at you. Like, that's their demons that they got.
- [31:57]
Logan Murdoch
Like demons on the wall.
- [31:59]
Howard Beck
They're everywhere. The demons on the wall, indeed. If the Clippers could only bring the wall with them from Intuit Dome.
- [32:06]
Logan Murdoch
It was popping it into a dome. Shout out to the Clipper fans. I didn't know there were that many.
- [32:10]
Howard Beck
It's. There's like seven or eight now. I think it was like seven or 8,000.
- [32:15]
Logan Murdoch
I don't know if they was paying actors or what, but there was. It was popping into a dome.
- [32:19]
Howard Beck
Now they got something special there with the arena and even with this team, if they can stay upright for any length of time, we can address that another day. But like, game seven in Denver is going to be just absolute dogfight. Like, this is going to be like. Logan, you're referencing like old laker teams from 15 years ago. This may look a lot like, you know, game seven of the 2010 finals where it's just going to be like, you know, just. Just ugly as hell. A lot of missed shots and a lot of nonsense possibly. I don't know. I don't know how to handicap this. Everybody was burying James Harden after game five. He comes back with a phenomenal Game six. You know, Kawhi Leonard at any given time we know can go off. Norm Powell had a nice stretch last night. Like the Clippers have the ability to go in and win this thing. But I don't know. I still don't know what to make of Game five. Like was it altitude? Was it just, is it just general exhaustion? Was it just a bad night? I Nikola Jokic in a Game seven. I'm putting my money on Jokic. Like I I think I picked the Clippers in this series. I think I probably said Clippers in seven. I did a lot of hedging with seven game series, didn't I? I just think a lot of these were really close and this one was going to be one of those. It has been. The Clippers could have had control early on, should have been up 3:1 instead of being down. But yeah, like I think there's a lot riding on this for the Clippers because you don't know if you're going.
- [33:51]
Logan Murdoch
To get organizationally though, I think is a lot riding on this organizationally, spiritually.
- [33:56]
Howard Beck
Like, you know, you let Paul George walk, you put all your eggs in the Kawhi Leonard basket. He comes back and looks like 2019 Kawhi for the last couple of months. Can you get another full season of that or even another half season of that? Can you get another April or May of that? We don't know the answers to those questions. There are no answers to those questions. So there's only now and if they lose this, you know, I don't know where they go from here because I don't know how much mileage is left on him. And for that matter, James Harden, who' you know, he's up there too now.
- [34:29]
Logan Murdoch
What do you think about this Game.
- [34:30]
Cliff
Seven Ra yeah, I also picked the Clippers. I think I would tend to agree with Howard for all the reasons that you want a Game seven at home like that. This is the ultimate like advantage in a one game scenario. We get that crowd, we get that altitude, we get everything that comes along with playing in Denver. I would just say this. He's Jokic is going to be Jokic. Jamal Murray is going to have to come along for the ride and if he doesn't, someone else, either Gordon or Porter Jr. I'd even say Brown. But like someone is going to have to play out of their mind next to him to win that game. Right. So it's Going to need to look like that. And if it. If it doesn't, I think I'd take the Clips even. Even in the hostile environment. But if they get it, if they get two, if they get the Jokic game and someone else gives them, you know that, hey, bro, I stood on business tonight with you. I think they get it done.
- [35:31]
Logan Murdoch
Yeah. I mean, it has to. I mean, Michael Porter Jr. The way he played in Game 6, he has to ball out. Like, there's. I mean, and we talked about. Howard just talked about how many, you know, demons the Clippers are exercising. I mean, the Nuggets are very well, in all ways playing. Everybody in there is playing for their survival on that team. Right. Like, Michael Porter Jr. Is playing so he doesn't get traded. Right. Or it's same with Jamal Murray. Same with everybody not named Jokic and Dave Adelman, who, honestly, we're not doing this segment much anymore, but ruin of the week, man. Cheese. What? He has done a hell of a job based on the circumstances. Howard is. Is. Is smiling like. Like he was right a couple weeks ago. Whatever, bro. He ain't tripping off everything a little. Yeah. You feel me, right? Yeah. A little smile, like I told you. But anyways, kudos and flowers to him. But Howard, like, the Nuggets do have a lot of demons that they need to exercise as well. Like, it's. It's going to go both ways in that argument.
- [36:32]
Howard Beck
I mean, you don't fire your GM and head coach with three days to go in the regular season for no reason. Right. It doesn't.
- [36:39]
Cliff
Like, stupid.
- [36:41]
Howard Beck
There's. There's an aspect of this where, you know, you lose in the first round and you go, yep, see, things were bad, and we've got a lot to clean up. We've already started. And we'll continue the cleanup on aisle four as soon as we get to our off season. There's a. There's a version of this where they win game seven. Who knows? You know? Like, I mean, listen, I don't think anybody's beating Oklahoma. I don't think any of us have thought for a while that anybody's beating Oklahoma. But if you somehow pulled that off now, the organization's got to reevaluate everything now. Like, David Adelman is staying that much based on.
- [37:17]
Logan Murdoch
Based on how we talked about this series. I mean, the Nuggets, the fact that they're in this and that they are in the games that they have won, like, this has been a very impressive showing. No matter what, though, from the Nuggets I'd believe in this series, considering what we all thought. The. How the front office was messed up. We already talked about it. Just the codes firing for them to put on this performance. And like Adelman and all the reservations we had. He's going toe to toe with Ty Lou and ball.
- [37:44]
Cliff
But we had him in, like, seven, didn't we? Like, I had the Clippers in seven. It wasn't like, did you think they were going to get steamrolled?
- [37:50]
Logan Murdoch
I thought. I don't know what I said. But, like, I was like, yeah, six might be in play because Clippers were so good and so well coached. And also 6, 6, 6 could have.
- [37:58]
Cliff
Easily been in play. Like, the man tipped the ball in with a.001 seconds on the clock. Like, it's. Yeah, I agree with you. I'm not trying to take away any flowers from him. But. But this. This, like, we are where at least I thought we would be in a series like this.
- [38:14]
Howard Beck
Yeah, No, I think that's. I think that's fair, Raja. I think, like. Like, if this went seven, and we all thought it was going to go seven, then nothing has really changed. Except that we don't know where the ultimate outcome is. Right?
- [38:24]
Cliff
Right.
- [38:24]
Howard Beck
And if the. The Nuggets win and they go to the second round and now you're facing the Thunder. Okay, now it's how. How good do we look against the Thunder? Like, everything that I think the Nuggets ownership and what's left of the front office every day is. Have we seen enough to convince us that we still have the right core and the right interim head coach who could become the permanent head coach? Or every day, are we seeing something that shows us, you know what, There are cracks, and the cracks are obvious. And the cracks are why we fired our coach at GM a couple of weeks ago, and the cracks are why we're going to go into this off season three thinking about some wholesale changes. And, you know, like, every. Every game matters in that. In that calculation.
- [39:03]
Cliff
Can I just say this real quick? Like, and this is. I mean, neither here nor there, but what you're describing there, Howard, is a wild place to be in the playoffs. Only because more than any other time of the year, the. The emotions and the swing of how you feel about your team are exacerbated every single night. Like, you could feel great after a win. Oh, shit, we're going to win a championship. One loss could have you feeling like you got to retool the whole thing. Like, that's a crazy ride for decision Makers to have to ride, like, at this stage in the season. It's so much easier in the regular season because, like, things are relatively flat, emotions are flat. We're just watching these games play out. But the emotional roller coaster that is the playoffs and the swings within a. In a series, they're hard to keep a level headed perspective about. Just even from a, from a coaching or a, or a playing standpoint, from a decision making standpoint. It's got to be like, fascinating.
- [40:02]
Logan Murdoch
Yeah.
- [40:03]
Howard Beck
Especially when you're not the people who are actually making the decisions because they're going to presumably hire somebody to, to come in and do this, right.
- [40:10]
Cliff
Yeah.
- [40:10]
Howard Beck
But there is some semblance of a front office there that's still making these evaluations right now.
- [40:14]
Logan Murdoch
Roger, there was something that I wanted to talk to you about in light of the, the Bucs Pacers elimination game. What happened after the game between. Because I feel like you have some insight to this. Between Tyrese Halliburton's pops and Giannis Adeta Kumbo.
- [40:32]
Cliff
Why? Because I've been on a court after a game.
- [40:35]
Logan Murdoch
You have been on the court after a game talking shit to. I don't know. It was the other players, but it was definitely the parents of the other players. But what do you think of this situation? And like, what's the balance that you have to have as a parent of a really, really good basketball player? And how do you balance, like, cheering for your son versus getting in a situation where keeping it real goes wrong with Tyrese Halliburton's father?
- [41:00]
Cliff
Yeah, it's a good question. I reflected on this.
- [41:03]
Logan Murdoch
I bet you did. I did, I did. The difference, when you saw it, did you look at yourself was like, is that. I'm not him, am I? That's not me.
- [41:12]
Howard Beck
No.
- [41:13]
Cliff
Because first of all, I didn't go up to anybody in particular, like, and I went over to my son. You understand what I'm saying? Like, you ran up on Giannis. Your son wasn't even in the fucking picture. In the middle of the court, in the middle.
- [41:26]
Howard Beck
Didn't even know he had done it until later.
- [41:29]
Logan Murdoch
That was hilarious. With like, Giannis hugs Tyrese Halliburton, who has no idea this is going on, by the way, and then like walks past him, he's like, I gotta holler at your pops real quick.
- [41:40]
Cliff
I went over, like, if you go. If you run over to Tyrese to celebrate, I think that's okay. Provided Tyrese isn't like walking up to another competitor that was on the floor or singling out any single person and trying to rub their face in it. I. I don't know that.
- [41:56]
Raja Bell
That.
- [41:58]
Cliff
That if you're just generally celebrating, people are going to be beefing with you once you target someone, and it makes it even worse that your son wasn't involved in it, but once you target him on your own and you feel it necessary to go out there and.
- [42:13]
Logan Murdoch
Like, rub, like the interview afterwards, bro, the interview that he had after Tyrese's, he said something along the line. Cliff, come on real quick. What did he say? What did he say to the local television show?
- [42:29]
Raja Bell
This. This man got on the local news and said, I was looking through Giannis. I wasn't looking at him. I had to. Yo, I'm not even lying. If any y'all didn't see it, listen to the pod. Please check out his interview with the local NBC affiliate out there in Indy. He literally said, yo, I was looking through Giannis. I wasn't looking at him. He said, we dapped each other over the game or afterwards and said, I love you, or something to that effect. But, yeah, it was one of the. Yeah, yeah. It was one of the craziest lack of accountability things I ever seen in my life. It's just like, yo, dawg, take the L. You act it out. You went on the court, you could have. Deanis could have slapped the fire out you, and he would have been justified in doing it. Lucky he didn't put that. Put them paws on you, because you might be.
- [43:10]
Logan Murdoch
Leave the Philly dude to talk about fighting. Leave the Philly duo.
- [43:15]
Raja Bell
Listen, I'm just saying we see some things happen on NBA courts, so I'm lucky he didn't get the fire smacked out of him. I'm just saying that.
- [43:21]
Cliff
I would say first huge issue in the NBA now about having. Having people on the court. I heard it somewhere. Who said it? Well, Giannis said it. Giannis gave an interview about his family, and they don't even sit down by the court and what have you. And I thought I heard someone else say they would have never in a million years dreamed of having a parent on a court. They shouldn't be allowed on the court. You sit in the front row, keep your ass off the court. Right? Like that's where it starts. Secondly, I kind of disagree with. With Cliff, and I'm usually like Cliff, quick to. To say defend yourself. But I don't think he approached Giannis in a threatening way that Giannis would have been warranted for putting his hands on him. Right? It was still tacky. It was still, like, lacking in judgment.
- [44:12]
Logan Murdoch
That he could have had.
- [44:13]
Raja Bell
I said he could have. Yeah, I don't. Yeah, yeah.
- [44:16]
Cliff
You open yourself up for that. You open yourself up for that when you out there acting. Acting like that. I would just from a parent's perspective, like, I get being, like, in the moment with your kid. Like, that shit's exciting. You're hella proud. Like, all of that, like, trust me, I've been there. Like, that's documented. Having said that, like, you can't be running out on an NBA court to. To. To anyone, let alone Giannis and be like, you know, doing what he did. You just made it. You made a mistake. So I'm with you. You just got to take your medicine now, bro. Like, I'm not going to harp on it. Keep it moving. Take your medicine. I thought Tyrese approached it the right way. I. I was really. I was really taken aback, like. And I got in the comments a little bit, and I usually don't do that about the reaction to. To. To Halle's kind of denouncing of what his dad did that night. Just saying, I don't think he should be doing that. People were, like, skewering him in the comments, like, you got to ride with pops. You got to. You got to, like, I thought that was tacky as shit. I thought he handled it really, really well.
- [45:16]
Logan Murdoch
You got to hold your pops accountable, man.
- [45:18]
Cliff
Yeah, dawg.
- [45:20]
Howard Beck
He said the right thing. I mean, like, in the moment, like, you know, I get it. I understand why people might react that way to an extent, but, like, no, the right thing to do. And it speaks really well of Tyrese. Hell, this is a compliment to his dad because you raised your son to have the kind of conscientiousness and values to say, yeah, that's my dad, but he was wrong. And I'm not afraid to say that in a public space here, considering what that looked like and the way it reflects on him, on me, on our team. And not for nothing, like, you know, the Pacers put out the statement, like, I can't remember how they, like, soft pedaled it, but basically, like, John Halliburton's now banned for the foreseeable future from home, and I think it was mutual agreement or something, but, like, come on, like, yay. Is that your.
- [46:03]
Logan Murdoch
Is that too. Is that too harsh? Like, maybe just put them in a box for the rest of the playoffs? Like, I don't know, can you suspend them for luxury games or throw them.
- [46:11]
Howard Beck
In the luxury suite?
- [46:12]
Logan Murdoch
Yeah, but, like, forever, though. Do you can't do any game.
- [46:16]
Howard Beck
I don't know if it's forever. I will say this. I do wonder. I have not checked into this at all, so I'm just talking out of my butt. I wonder if there was an NBA security piece of this where they said, you can't. You can't let him back in, not even in the stands, because there has to be accountability after an incident like this. Now, granted, you know, let's not overblow it. There was no. No. No blows thrown, Nothing. Like, it didn't get too ugly or anything. But once you've done that and you've shown that kind of bad judgment, I could see why the league itself, possibly at the league security level, might have weighed in on this. Because, yeah, reasonably, you could say, come back to the games. But just don't put him courtside. Don't put him anywhere where he could be running out on the court and having another incident like this, put him in a luxury suite where you're safely tucked away. That he's not being allowed at all or by mutual agreement or whatever they're calling it, tells us something. I'm not sure what.
- [47:14]
Logan Murdoch
Welcome back to Pack Watch with Jamie, who is ready to make you feel worse about your team than you already do.
- [47:20]
Cliff
What's up, real ones? Welcome back to another edition of packwatch.
- [47:25]
Logan Murdoch
That's right, it's the postseason. We're getting teams out of here. First team, we got to get out of here. Unfortunately, it's my Los Angeles Lakers.
- [47:35]
Cliff
Frankly, I don't even know what to.
- [47:36]
Logan Murdoch
Say to you guys. I really don't. It's one thing to get got by Ant man, right?
- [47:41]
Cliff
It's nothing.
- [47:42]
Logan Murdoch
Julius Randall Balling, okay?
- [47:44]
Cliff
Even Jenny McDaniels, he had a hot streak, bruh. Rudy Gobert got eliminated by Rudy Gobert.
- [47:52]
Raja Bell
Hey, look, you lose the series to Ant Man.
- [47:55]
Logan Murdoch
Hey, that's Ant man.
- [47:57]
Cliff
But go bear. 27 and 24 look like Prime Hakeem out there, dog. You know what? I need to calm down. Luca, you hear what they saying about you, bro?
- [48:10]
Logan Murdoch
They saying Nico was right.
- [48:11]
Cliff
You gonna stand for that?
- [48:12]
Howard Beck
A.R.
- [48:13]
Logan Murdoch
They was talking about you. Crazy shout out R, though. R came hard in game five, you know what I'm saying?
- [48:17]
Cliff
But we need more. Needed more.
- [48:20]
Logan Murdoch
Legos are all packed up. D. You hate to see it. Want to talk quickly about one of our faves on the show before we get to the mailbag, because it needs to be documented. Anthony Edwards, ladies and gentlemen. Wow, what a. What a week for the guy. What a. Just to me and Raza talked about this on Friday, just about how the resume that he is building thus far. How impressed Raza were you seeing in that closeout game of his performance and how he kind of galvanized that Timberwolves group. And how dangerous could Mini be in the Western Conference?
- [49:00]
Cliff
Yeah, I mean, who do they. Who do they draw next round? Sorry, my brain.
- [49:03]
Logan Murdoch
Either between the warriors of the Rockets.
- [49:05]
Cliff
Yeah, no, no, no, no. Listen. Yeah, they can be very dangerous in a series against those two. I would take. I would take OKC if OKC were to come out of the other side against them in the. In the Western Conference finals. But I could definitely see a Western Conference finals for them as far as Ant is concerned. I was very impressed. Like, very impressed with. With. He didn't score it. Great. But, you know, and this would be, you know, kind of bigger picture. And if you're drawing a juxtaposition to, like, other stars, he. He produces for his team in a myriad of ways. Like, he can make a difference in. In. In parts of the game that don't always show up on a stat sheet that contribute to winning in more ways than the stuff that shows up on the stat sheet. Defending, you know, leadership, like, I mean, he had a bunch of assists and rebounds, but energy, like, all of those things contribute to winning. And it. So if you don't score the ball great, even if you're a star, you're able to put forth an effort that helps your team, you know, win games. And he's really, really good in that. I didn't think he was phenomenal as an offensive player. And way too often, even I fall guilty of this. That's what we quantify, like, your greatness on is your ability. I talk about it all the time. To move all the puppets, like, with your. Like, that's purely offense we're talking about. That's purely offense. That's half the fucking game. Yeah, like. And so I give him a lot of credit because he plays the whole game.
- [50:43]
Logan Murdoch
Yeah. I mean, it feels like he's becoming back this national phenomenon. I don't know if you guys saw the clips of him walking from Crypto to the hotel. Oh, I didn't. Superstar in the making. Oh, you didn't? No. We will send that post pod.
- [51:00]
Cliff
He was literally in the streets. Like, he was in the streets.
- [51:03]
Logan Murdoch
He was in the streets. Every. Everything he came out of his mouth was an instant quotable for years to come. He's just amazing. But, like, the question I have for you, though, in the rivalry that we think between him and Luka Doncic, I would believe it's one and one right now. And it feels like at least in the public consciousness right now is trending upwards above Luca and the young dude standings right now. And there's a little talk about Luke Luca proving Nico rights for whatever that means. I just rolled my eyes at all those takes. That's stupid. But where do you see Ant right now in the consciousness of young players? Right where he low key, has the resume to stack up against all of the young guys that haven't won a championship but are expected to. What did this win over Luka Doncic do for that, that case in that resume?
- [52:00]
Howard Beck
Yeah, I mean, not to put too much on one series, but to just pull back for a second here. Like, you know, Luka's got like the multiple top three MVP finishes. Luka would be there again this year if he hadn't missed too many games and ineligible because of injury and all that stuff. So like Lucas still has a bit of the upper hand in terms of like he's, he's got the finals appearance. He's got a little bit more of combination of hardware and higher MVP finishes. And Anthony Edwards, like, I don't think he's going to finish top five this season either in the MVP results. We'll hear that in the next week or two, I think. But Logan, your question is, I think is like beyond the basketball reference page. It's kind of more of like the zeitgeist and the, the vibes and like, yeah, Anthony Edwards has it right now and not just because he just beat Luka head to head. It's like Luka, like some of that stuff that came out of Dallas is true. He was like you. We none of us agreed. Nobody on the earth agrees with the trade.
- [53:01]
Logan Murdoch
But you were stupid. But you might add a point.
- [53:04]
Cliff
But you remember, you, you remember when it happened, I said if anybody fucking knows, they see him every day. Like saying they couldn't have got more for the deal, but they see him every day.
- [53:15]
Howard Beck
And Roger, where you and I, yeah, where you and I agreed on this is like, like there's probably something to all that and they know more than we do and that we're, you know, I don't think we did really disagree that much, but like you still can't trade him no matter, no matter what any of that stuff was. But yeah, the fact is we're looking at Luke a little askew. Not, not showing up as he should have in the finals, not being in the best condition as he should have been during the finals, during parts of any of the last couple of years. Defensive, you know, deficiencies or just complete, you know, ignoring of responsibilities on defense, Anthony Edwards actually defends his tail off, not always consistently, but dude plays hard at both ends. He's a brighter personality. He's fun. He says stuff. Sometimes he says stuff that he shouldn't say, and then he gets fined, and then he gets fined again and again and again to the tune of, like, $380,000 for the season. But, you know, but there's a personality there.
- [54:10]
Logan Murdoch
He watching again. He's.
- [54:12]
Howard Beck
He's. He's fun. He's this bright personality. And Luca is like, every answer is like five words. He tells you nothing. He reveals nothing. He's finally in some kind of fun commercials, but even in those, he's, like, barely says anything. Luca is still kind of like a mystery box as a person and a personality, whereas Anthony Edwards is just out there, like, for better or worse. And we've seen both.
- [54:38]
Logan Murdoch
It's.
- [54:38]
Howard Beck
We kind of got a feel for who he is.
- [54:40]
Logan Murdoch
Everything you see on TV is what you get in person with Anthony Edwards, man. Like, I got a little bit of the Anthony Edwards experience over the summer covering Team usa and like, yo, he is a walking, like, Pied Piper type of person, man. Like, people. It's like a crowd always follows him. And it's not just because he's famous. It's because they just gen. People genuinely want to be around him and hear what he has to say on any given moment. Like, he's not. He may not want the face of the league, but it may be just above, like, anything that he has control over, man, because, like, every time he is in front of a camera, he. It feels like he has another level to get to in terms of celebrity. But he's very much on the way to being a figure, whether he likes it or not. So we'll see.
- [55:24]
Cliff
Yeah, well, look, a lot of. I mean, in a weird way, not. Not wanting it and not trying too hard to get it.
- [55:32]
Logan Murdoch
That's why you got it.
- [55:33]
Cliff
That's why you get it. Right? You know what I mean? So, yeah, man, he's. I just enjoy. Look, this isn't. This isn't shade. I enjoy the fact. And what I'm hoping for, Luca, honestly, what I'm hoping for Luca, is what a lot of people, you know, pointed out when he went and was able to team with LeBron, that if anyone was going to. If anyone was going to get him and have him see the need for taking care of the body and the responsibility and what you need to go through to be a true professional. In that sense, it would be sitting right next to LeBron and seeing that, everything that he does to keep that body moving the way it does. And that's my hope for him, because honestly, you know, not only did they see him every day, but the other thing I said was, do you know how bad it has to be? Like, Nico's. Nico's not an idiot. Now, I do disagree with what you got in for the trade and everything like that. Like, there should have been if you had it. But think about the bigger picture, how bad they had to think it was, right? And all I'm saying is, if that continues, then this candle doesn't burn as long as it should burn.
- [56:46]
Logan Murdoch
The talent is local, and I want to see it.
- [56:50]
Cliff
I want it for it. Like, so I just hope that, like, after this, like, a little upon reflection and stuff like that, that this summer, he gets down to, like, brass tacks with, like, yo, let me lean out. Let me get in shape. Let me. Let me commit myself to. To it in a way that I have it, and that's my hope.
- [57:04]
Logan Murdoch
Yeah, we'll see what happens. You know, it was funny that we're talking him versus Anthony Edwards in this context, because Anthony Edwards had those question marks really early on in his career in terms of work ethic and learning how to work. And now, if you ask people around the league, I think Anthony Edwards is one of the hardest working guys in the league, and you could see it in his game and based on how it grows and grows and grows. So, I mean, Luke is in a different space right now, but it would behoove him to switch up his act right now, because, like I said, the Lakers market in la, everything is magnified in a way that it just wasn't in Dallas. So we'll see. Mailbag time. What's good, buddy?
- [57:45]
Raja Bell
Fellas, fellas, fellas. I'm still mourning my. My Pistons lost, but, you know, 313. You're gonna be back up next year.
- [57:50]
Logan Murdoch
J. I feel like that's just like. I feel like that's just a cover for, like, just being sad about your Sixers not even making it there. Like, you just have to. I feel like this is some residual, too.
- [58:00]
Raja Bell
Nah, listen, Detroit got some guys I can root for. Like I said, they got my man Isaiah Stewart on the bench. He was hurt. Jay Nivey's coming back. Cade Cunningham's the man. You know, just a little step back. Three killed us in the series. A referee no call. But you know we'll be all right, man. Detroit 3. 3 all day, man. All right, let's get this first question popping. Coach firings and Logan's fatherhood. What's poppin, fellas? Omar here from Tampa, which I'd like to start a petition to include as an expansion city. The ringer has somehow become the avengers of sports media world and I couldn't be happier. That said, real ones will always be at the top of my listening list. Tuesdays and Fridays are my favorite days of the week. I don't want to belabor this topic. One, because it's been talked about enough and two, because it seems to get Roger's blood blood pressure elevated. But I can sort of. But I can sort of see the logic in the Malone and Jenkins firing.
- [58:48]
Cliff
Rubber baby Bobby Gumbert. Rubber baby Gum. Let's go.
- [58:51]
Raja Bell
I do agree with Roger that if you're only comparing whether Malone would give the Nuggets a better shot than Adelman this postseason, it's an easy answer. Of course it's Malone. And same with Jenkins giving the Grizzlies a better shot than Tuomos.
- [59:06]
Logan Murdoch
Finland.
- [59:08]
Raja Bell
Sorry dog, I ain't want to butcher.
- [59:09]
Cliff
The coach's name like that.
- [59:11]
Raja Bell
But since we're real ones, let's be real. Neither team was going to win a chip this year and I think both organizations had the self awareness to realize that before the postseason started. Knowing that both coaches were probably going to get fired before the start of next season. If that's the case, letting Adelman and Tuomos coach through the postseason in an interim capacity.
- [59:27]
Logan Murdoch
Did Howard ghost write this question?
- [59:31]
Raja Bell
Maybe office to get a snippet what they can do which can help them make a more informed decision going into the summer about whether they want to commit to them in a permanent capacity or look for an external hire. If they waited until after the playoffs to fire Malone and Jenkins and they decide to take the chance on Adelman or T Mos to start next season and they end up.
- [59:51]
Logan Murdoch
Okay, okay, I get it, I get it, I get it.
- [59:52]
Raja Bell
Yeah, you just.
- [59:55]
Logan Murdoch
I feel like Howard wrote this question also.
- [59:58]
Howard Beck
Howard in all my. In all my spare time.
- [60:00]
Raja Bell
Yes, Howard for you real quick. It says give us your best pitch for Blue sky because you miss you on Twitter and I can't get myself to make a million social media account. Love you guys. And Logan, we need fatherhood update all the shit's Omar Altuba. Omar Ala. Oh, okay.
- [60:15]
Cliff
Thank you. Omar would like one of you like to go or.
- [60:18]
Logan Murdoch
I know what you're going to say. I mean, I would just say this.
- [60:21]
Howard Beck
Question is just set up for Raja to go off.
- [60:23]
Logan Murdoch
So. It was meant for Raja.
- [60:25]
Raja Bell
It was meant for you. It was meant for you. It was meant for you.
- [60:27]
Cliff
Okay, let me go back to my drama class, but let me come back.
- [60:30]
Howard Beck
To the Blue sky thing after he.
- [60:31]
Cliff
Finishes by the seashore. She sells seashells by the seashore. Okay, no, listen, I would just. I. In. If you. If you are saying that I'm living in a world where Thomas, Isolo and Adelman are going to be real candidates for your coaching vacancies, then I agree with what's being said there. Like, I can see that we're going to give them a shot. We're going to essentially give them a head start on playoff experience by just throwing them into the fire this year. And they're 1A. Like, in terms of our coaching search, like, we think that they're the guy. We'll bring some other people in to interview them, but. But, like, we think we got the guy. We need to confirm that. I'll. I'll concede. All right. Okay. It's unorthodox. Like, I. I rarely see it, but I got that. That logic. If that's not the case and these guys are just placeholders for a wide open coaching search where you're going to go with someone more experienced or something like that, then that is where. That is what I'm taking exception with. Like, I don't see why you would do that at that point. Right. And so I'm not going to go all crazy and stuff like that. I do think that. I don't think it's debatable that the former coach gave both of those teams a better chance of winning in the immediacy that is these playoffs. But if you are saying that these guys are your front runners for your job next year, I could understand giving him an opportunity in the playoffs, especially with all that was going on in those locker rooms.
- [62:04]
Logan Murdoch
Word.
- [62:08]
Howard Beck
I don't need to address the coaching thing again. We did it a couple of weeks ago.
- [62:11]
Cliff
You wrote the question that was, thanks. Thanks, Omar Beck.
- [62:16]
Howard Beck
Thank you. Thank you, Omar. My alter ego. He did ask about Blue Sky. And listen, I sympathize, Omar. Like, I know we all have way too many social media accounts. We all have just way too many things. So here's what I can tell you. Great NBA community on Blue Sky. It has grown by leaps and bounds over the last three, four, five months. Not everybody from Twitter, but a lot of familiar faces. Both media Fans, shit, posters, clip posters, scouts, film breakdown guys. Like there's a really good NBA conversation happening there. And on most days. I don't even miss the fact that I'm really barely on Twitter anymore. So if that helps at all. By the way, no ads on Blue sky, no algorithm pushing, misinformation, bad actors, various propaganda. So that's a benefit. Smaller but better engagement. And if nothing else, you can come find me there because I'm not going to be back on Twitter as long as it's owned by the current owner. So.
- [63:11]
Raja Bell
Hey, man, I'm with you. Shout out to Blue Sky.
- [63:13]
Logan Murdoch
Shout out to Blue Sky.
- [63:15]
Raja Bell
So this headliner here for this email is Detroit Basketball. This is from Martin Oulet.
- [63:22]
Logan Murdoch
Nice. Hello. We just all write emails to ourselves. That's what I'm saying. He's got damn rooms. Really ain't even with us like that. We got two of the guys just to give us questions because we probably have questions. Jesus, that's. That's messed up.
- [63:35]
Raja Bell
All right. This is from Martin Oulet. Hello, friends. Long time, big time here as an underdog booster, I focus on the Pistons for the past few years. I'm a K believer and I'm also stuck with Stu and Duran through their sophomore struggles, so it's rewarding to see them excel. My question is threefold. First, should the Pistons stand pat this summer and focus on internal growth and refinement or go after some sort of alpha scoring punch? As a leader in another pro sphere, I know how important it is to enable trust and stability and usually prefer reliability, consistency and team building over raw individual talent. But when you have the chance to bring in a ringer to put your shit over the top, sometimes you have to take that disruptive risk. So yes or no is my first question. If you do think they should bring in more punch out of the big time free agents this summer, who could be the best tailor their game and attitude to fit what the Pistons already have going on? I'm a booker guy, but they could also use more bang on the inside. Finally, what are your best practices for integrating new top line talent into an organization without causing a ruckus? Thanks for all the shits. Martin.
- [64:35]
Logan Murdoch
Martin. Martin.
- [64:37]
Raja Bell
Oh, Detroit basketball fact, man.
- [64:44]
Logan Murdoch
Was it Martin in Detroit? Right?
- [64:45]
Raja Bell
It was in Detroit.
- [64:46]
Cliff
It wasn't. He's from. He's from D.C. though. Right? But like this show was in Detroit. Yeah.
- [64:51]
Raja Bell
It wasn't Detroit. Yeah. Shout out to Martin. Gina.
- [64:53]
Logan Murdoch
Man, what was I gonna say? I don't know, man. Based on the thing, I think they should Just stand pat because Kate is that dude. I think they just keep on building around him and like, Booker is the only, like, trade piece that I would consider going to go get. I just don't know the fit there. It'd be cool to have another scoring guard, but I just. You would have to. It would depend on how Devin Booker just kind of transitions into that role, which I think he can do, but I just don't. I don't see that happening. And so, yeah, I think it's just stay pat. And it's hard to integrate another star into the bold just because of egos. And not only egos. Just like stars are used to getting wherever they want to get onto the floor. So to adjust that, it takes some time. And just adjusting your game into a flow of a whole completely different offense after you have an offense catered to you is a hard thing to do. So those are my answers.
- [65:55]
Howard Beck
I have a story, as it happens on the ringer.com right now. Go read it. About Detroit basketball. It's. Read it and about. And about a lot of those questions actually, because over the last couple of days, while also, you know, hitting the games that were in New York, I hit up a couple of folks around the league just to kind of start looking forward. Like, what's next for the Pistons? Where do they go from here? Assuming that they were going to lose the series or where, you know, even if they won the series, like, what's, what's next? The consensus that I've gotten is basically, yeah, Stan, Pat, you don't need to like hit the gas yet. You just broke through, you tripled your win total. Cade's going to be all NBA, I expect, when those results are out soon. Jalen Duran's looking great, making strides. Asar Thompson's fricking awesome. Already one of the best defenders in the league. If he develops a three point jump shot, you know, he's, you know, best.
- [66:48]
Logan Murdoch
Defender in the world according to Malik Beasley.
- [66:53]
Howard Beck
And like, so there's a, there's a core group there. Like, they got through this series, they didn't even have, as we said, Isaiah Stewart and Jaden Ivey. Like, there's some doubts about whether Ivy makes sense as a long term fit there. They've got, you know, the veterans who were so key, aside from Tobias who's under contract. But like, Beasley's a free agent, Schroeder's a free agent, Tim Hardaway Jr. Is a free agent. Like, do they bring all those guys back? Is it maybe more like two of those three. But you've got this good young core. You've got your franchise star in Cade. It's really hard to have multiple stars for cap reasons in today's NBA. So like, don't go rush out and lock up your cap. Take away all of your flexibility when you don't need to yet. You just got here. It's okay to like let your young guys, their three best players are all 23 and under. Just let it ride. Let them, let them grow. And that's mostly the opinion from folks I talked to around the league. But it hit me this morning when I was like looking at the quotes from last night. Tom Gores, the owner of the Pistons, did a pregame presser which was interesting before game six to decide to do it then, where he talked about the big picture and he's, he's talking about urgency. I'm like, my guy. Your team just finally arrived. You have made way too many changes. He's gone already through like six GM team president types and six head coaches in the last 15 years. Like just slow down. Let Trajan Langdon and his staff, who are doing a great job, let them advise you on how to proceed from here, which will probably involve a little bit more patience and a little less urgency for the time being.
- [68:28]
Raja Bell
It's dope. Real quick. Do you think if they put a flyer on a guy like Ty Jerome, would that be worth it? Give him a little bag.
- [68:36]
Howard Beck
Couldn't hurt. I like, I like. Yeah, but moves around the edges like.
- [68:39]
Logan Murdoch
That, that's different than like trying to get a Devin Booker or a Kevin Durant or something.
- [68:44]
Raja Bell
Or blow it up for Brad Bill or be.
- [68:47]
Howard Beck
Yeah, so. Or getting sucked into like the Zion sweepstakes or something crazy.
- [68:51]
Logan Murdoch
Right?
- [68:51]
Howard Beck
Like don't go after any like the disillusioned star. You're not going to be in the Giannis sweepstakes anyway. Probably like don't. Like you don't need to make those kind of drastic moves. Like the one guy I thought about, one of the people I talked to this week was like, well, they need like not, not the most expensive version of this. Not a Carl Anthony Towns, but like a modern day big who can step out a little bit, hit, hit the mid range jumpers, stretch you out to three, put the ball on the floor a little. Somebody who can do the things that Duran and Isaiah Stewart don't. And I'm thinking like Larry Markin is going to be available possibly this summer, but like, I don't know that that's the move to make for this team. And again, like you don't need make anything drastic right now.
- [69:27]
Logan Murdoch
Cool.
- [69:28]
Raja Bell
All right, final one. This is from Cleary Percy. Hey guys. I wonder your guys opinion on what the Jason Tatum has to do to stop being consistently underappreciated and ignored in NBA discussions. Let me preface this by saying. Let me preface this by saying I'm not a Celtics fan.
- [69:43]
Howard Beck
Did Michael Pena go straight this one?
- [69:45]
Logan Murdoch
Yeah. Do we know. Do you know where we work? Do you know who we work?
- [69:50]
Raja Bell
But this is a guy, dog.
- [69:52]
Logan Murdoch
They talk about. They talk about the Celtics on the Simon spot all the time. Jack Low just made a joke to Bill talking about how, oh, we're going to talk about the Celtics again. Like, dog, this is the last site where Jason Tatum is underappreciated.
- [70:09]
Howard Beck
Oh, my God.
- [70:09]
Logan Murdoch
This is the very last site at the very last shuttle.
- [70:11]
Raja Bell
I think he's referring to the site though. I think he's referring to just the general.
- [70:14]
Howard Beck
The world at large.
- [70:15]
Raja Bell
Yeah.
- [70:16]
Logan Murdoch
Oh, my God, bro.
- [70:17]
Raja Bell
I mean they just Celtic city. Like you can't. You can't say Celtics. Yeah. But this is a guy who in that magic series, even with the bone bruise, averaged 31, 11 and 5. Once that I saw that Tatum joined Larry Brown as the only two Celtics in NBA history to score 35 plus in three straight playoff games. What the heck else does this guy have to do to start being appreciated more by the casuals and NBA fans in general?
- [70:43]
Logan Murdoch
Winning the not be bland.
- [70:45]
Raja Bell
He's an awesome player.
- [70:46]
Logan Murdoch
It's nothing to do with his game. He's amazing.
- [70:49]
Howard Beck
Okay, Be a little bit more Anthony Edwards and a little less Luca.
- [70:52]
Raja Bell
He's an awesome player with the sneaky elite bag and it just feels like more people should care. Would love to hear your thoughts. Cheers.
- [71:01]
Logan Murdoch
We said all of our thoughts.
- [71:03]
Howard Beck
All right, hold on.
- [71:04]
Logan Murdoch
Here we go.
- [71:05]
Howard Beck
Jason Tatum, Six time all Star. Four time all NBA. Will be five when it comes out soon. MVP finishes. He's been fourth. He's been sixth twice. He's almost certainly going to be top four, if not top three in the results that are coming soon. And he's finished behind better players who had better seasons in MVP voting. And it's not a knock and it's not a knock to be consistently top 4, 5, 6 in MVP. He's also part of an ensemble in Boston where like Jalen Brown's also really super good. And you know, Derek White, Drew Holiday and Al Horford and Porzingis, like, like he's part of a great team. It's a little different than when you're Jokic lifting up an entire team of guys who aren't as great as the guys I just named, like, it's. It's just different. And to Logan's point, he's a little dry.
- [71:52]
Cliff
Yeah, dude, look, this one's simple. He's. He is a phenomenal player. Anybody disrespecting what he is as a player is stupid. Like that. I don't. That's not debatable. But there's. There's such thing as, like, an it factor, like, having a little bit of, like, you know, it's. It's an unpredictable, unquantifiable thing, right? Like. Like a Q, A Q rating, for instance. Like. Like, people have to want to consume it. You don't get to dictate, like, when. Like, who becomes the person that the media and the public want to consume, that shit just happens on its own. And for whatever reason, like, other people move the needle more than he does in the sphere of, like, global or NBA stars. It's just what it is. I don't. I don't know what it is. But that's your answer, right? Like, there's something, and it might just be dry. Howard or Logan. That might be what it is, but it's not. You don't have that thing. You know what I mean?
- [72:42]
Raja Bell
It's that personality, man. I seen you drop the vlog, though. He did, like, a sneaker vlog. It looked kind of cool. You just showed his.
- [72:48]
Logan Murdoch
Gonna watch it, probably.
- [72:49]
Raja Bell
He showed a shoe collection. I. I mean, I saw it on the Grand.
- [72:53]
Cliff
You know what's crazy about that is you could press. This is not unlike the Anthony Edwards conversation we had before. You could do everything. You might not be dry. You might not be dry at all. You might have a great personality, and, like, you want to show that to people. It still might not matter. Like, they've. The. The. The. The jury is in on that, right? They're like, yeah, we don't really. Like, whatever.
- [73:15]
Logan Murdoch
We still get them compilations of him, like, copying other people's speeches and stuff. Like, it's still gonna happen. Like, there's also. Man, favorite players is gonna get slandered at some point in time, bro. That's what sports is. And fan bases. That's what happens, dog. Geez. You know how many. I grew up a Kobe fan? You know how many times he got slandered, bro?
- [73:33]
Raja Bell
I don't want to hear anything about this, because you can lay low, make $300 million, fall back, and be with LMA. Sounds like a good life to me. Yeah.
- [73:40]
Logan Murdoch
I mean, but they talk about his life. His life is. There you go.
- [73:43]
Raja Bell
Yeah. Like, come on. We're good. That was a Melbourne.
- [73:47]
Howard Beck
Jason Tatum's fine.
- [73:48]
Logan Murdoch
He's fine. He'll be okay.
- [73:50]
Cliff
And a hell of a promise.
- [73:51]
Logan Murdoch
Great player. All right. That's been.
- [73:54]
Cliff
Jason Tatum's with lma.
- [73:56]
Logan Murdoch
Yeah. Damn dog.
- [73:58]
Cliff
Yeah.
- [73:59]
Logan Murdoch
You're not on page six. You don't be tapping in.
- [74:01]
Raja Bell
Yeah, he boot up.
- [74:02]
Logan Murdoch
You don't know the tip. What happened to the Roger Bell T Report?
- [74:05]
Cliff
But stop playing with me.
- [74:10]
Logan Murdoch
Oh, we're getting loopy. All right, that has been another edition of Real Ones. Tea Report and Mailbag. You can check us out. We're gonna do Raja Howard myself on Tuesday. So back to back mailbag episodes. Realwoodsmailbackgmail.com realwellsmailpackmail.com realwithmailbackmail.com I'm gonna make. It's Roz's turn to do the ad, so we're gonna go do that and tap in and see you Tuesday. Ah, all the shits. Bye. Must be 21 years and older and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with the Kansas Star Casino or 18 and older and present in gambling problem, call 1-800- GAMBLER or visit rghelp.com, call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org backslash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelp linema.org or call 1-800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE&Y protects Hope NY in New York.