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- [00:02]
A
Somewhere out there is a Chevy truck and the person who drives it, well, that's a Chevy person. You probably know one, your buddy, your sister. Ones who always show up. They're the first to rise, the last to leave. They always have that little extra something and maybe you've got it too. Chevrolet together, let's drive. Visit chevy.com trucks to explore the lineup.
- [00:29]
B
This episode is brought to you by the Home Depot. Spring is starting, so it's time to wake up your yard. And at the Home Depot, they've got everything you need to do it. With low prices, guaranteed, mowing your lawn is a dream. With top brand outdoor power tools like the Ryobi 40 volt mower with up to 50 minutes of runtime, you can add a pop of color with spring blooms and fresh plants and refresh your garden beds with EarthGrow mulch. Five bags for just $10. Start your spring with low prices now through April 1, available at the Home Depot. Exclusions apply. See homedepot.com Pricematch for details.
- [01:14]
C
Popping Real Ones. Logan Murdoch here. Raja Bell and Howard Beck in a few. We talked a lot about Adam Silver's comments following the board of governors meetings. Howard Beck was in the crowd. So we talked about expansion, talked a little bit about tanking reform. Is that even a thing? And then we talked about how the latest news in the Giannis impasse is going to affect how the Bucks are reputationally around the league and how important that is for teams that treat their current players. How important is that for how they're going to treat future players and future eight free agents? And how are they going to look at a team that you know is in an impass with a generational talent? All that and more on Real Ones. But first, Cliff, play the theme music. What's poppin Real Ones? Logan Murdoch here. Howard back there. Rajabel over there. Man, I need some coffee, dog. I'm, I'm out here. I'm. I'm not in my normal self. Let me get, let me take a sip before we get to the shits. Everybody good? We good? We like.
- [02:20]
D
Are you good, Logan? Good travel week for you. I know, I know. It's like it's, it's wrecking your whole schedule. Your sleep, your, your biorhythm. You doing all right?
- [02:29]
C
Yeah, I'm all right, bro. I don't know how NBA players do back to backs and all that. Anyways, let's get right to it. I have no transition here. Sham Sharania just put out a, a tweet before we got on the pod talking about tanking in the board of Governors meeting and we'll get all into the board of Governors meeting and talk about Howard's experiences being there. But first, the sham Soranian tweet. The NBA presented three comprehensive anti tanking concepts to its Board of Governors on Wednesday with modifications expected before a formal vote in May. Here's one of them. 18 teams in draft lottery seeds 7 through 15 in each conference have flattened odds with bottom 10 teams having an 8% chance and the remaining 20% odds distributed in decreasing order for 11 through 18. And a lottery drawing for all 18 picks. That's number one. Number two, 22 teams in lottery. Using two year records, lottery teams would reach a minimum win total floor each season such as 25 wins. If a team falls short of the floor, it gets slotted to meet the floor. Top four drawn as part of the lottery as is currently 18 teams in a five by five lottery. Bottom five teams have equal odds for the top pick with lottery form for picks one through five. Bottom five teams have a floor at 10 and those fall flat out of the top five get sorted in a separate drawing. Howard, have we fixed tanking? Which one of these are going to fix tanking?
- [04:05]
D
Oh my God. The, the. The lottery reform is going the way of the cba, the collective bargaining agreement, which is that every solution creates two things. A much thicker set of policies that are impenetrable to anybody except for like lawyers and NBA officials. And secondly makes it so complicated that none of us will ever understand it. Maybe that's the point. Maybe, maybe this is just all to confuse us all. Hey look, we did this thing and you can't possibly understand it, but there will be some results and those results might fix tanking. And don't worry about the details. I mean these are proposals. Let's be clear. These are proposals only at the moment it is late March. They are going to meet in May because Adam Silver, as he mentioned the other day at his press conference, they consider this to be a pretty urgent matter. They're holding a special board of governors meeting in May just to do this because tanking is that big of a concern right now and it's that big of a just a blight on the league and a big PR problem for them. Listen, these proposals that ESPN reported were just reported out within the last hour before we got on. I haven't had time to fully digest it. They are confusing and if you just scroll social media, that is the first response from everybody like what the fuck? Like maybe this works. Maybe it doesn't. It will probably create new hazards within the standings instead of the ones we currently have. Will it fix tanking? Who the hell knows? I'll be curious to see when we get to May whether they actually adopt any of these three or whether it's some other combination or something else entirely. And to hear their explanation are very smart people at the league office. All the glibness aside. Evan Wash, Adam Silver, their army of lawyers, they've got whatever they come up with. I'm sure there will be some sound rationale behind it, but I'm gonna. I'm gonna actually need them to walk me through it. To be honest and dissect or digesting this on the fly and trying to judge whether this is gonna work. I'm. I'm not ready to go there.
- [06:16]
C
We definitely need Cole Cushion to dissect this. This is. This is a lot. And I think that's another thing that we're having to. All the new reforms from the NBA, whether it's the playing, whether it's the. The All Star Game, everything has become a homework assignment with.
- [06:32]
D
Yes, the.
- [06:33]
C
With the NBA in general. I just. Roger, what are your thoughts on this? You were just as confused as I was as I was reading it.
- [06:39]
A
I feel really, really, really good about what Howard said because I was feeling alone in that I didn't understand 97 of what you said, Logan. Like, there were a few words that I understood, but you had to carry General. You know, I could not figure out. You lost me within the first seven seconds of reading that. And it does. Misery Loves Company. It makes me feel better because I haven't been all over socials this morning. I've been a little busy, so I didn't know how the general public was reacting to that. I have no idea what you just said. I have none. I've. I couldn't comprehend any of it. Like, I think I got a little piece of, you know, the flattened odds with. With some shit in there. But, like, look. Yeah, yeah, go ahead, Howard. I don't even know what to say to that. I couldn't even. I don't know.
- [07:31]
D
I'm gonna. I'm gonna do my best to, like, simplify it a little bit for all of us and for the purpose of this discussion. Like, again, I think it takes a lot more than reacting on the fly for us to intelligently dissect or digest this and interpret it. But I will just say the broad strokes are this. They're. They're going to make the lottery involve more Teams, all of these proposals end up essentially extending it, right? So instead of it just being every team that missed the playoffs is in the lottery now, it will be the teams that missed the playoffs still in the lottery. Teams that make the play in under some of these proposals also make the lottery if they miss the playoffs. And in some of these proposals you also get teams that got eliminated in the first round. And the, the broad explanation for this would be rather than have this complete race to the bottom, if you involve teams that actually made the playoffs or even got into the first round and lost in the playoffs, those are teams that a, obviously aren't good enough to win playoff rounds. So you could argue that they are still teams in need of talent. So it's justifiable to have them in the lottery with the possibility of moving up. And secondly, instead of saying, oh, we're not making the playoffs, pull the plug, bench everybody, screw the season, screw whatever, we'll take the fines, we're just shutting everybody down. Instead of that, if, you know you could still be in the lottery while making the play in or the playoffs, it that, that starts to work toward disincentivizing the intentional losing and pulling the plug, right? Because now it's like, oh, we can try to be good and still get a chance to add another piece. That's, that's the best explanation I can, I can give us all for the purposes of, of this discussion, right? So like I, I think there's some merit to that. But then, you know, you start moving toward why not just have everybody in the lottery, right? Or just why, why not have, you know, and we're getting close, right? It's, this is. Some of these proposals are. I think all of them are like 18 teams basically. But then you flatten the odds Also. The downside of that is if you're a team that's truly just hurting, had no talent, whether by design or just because you're in a rebuild, you're you, you had stars, they all retired, they all got injured. If the lot. The flatter the lottery odds are, the less likely it is that the teams that most need the talent can get the high level talent in the system. So. But this is the balancing act they've always been trying to navigate.
- [10:00]
A
There's always a look there got. I'm holding on to. There are people out there like me that just, yeah, we're not smart enough. Sorry. I don't know. I mean, like, I'm not gonna apologize for. I can't do that. Here's what I here's, here's what I will boil it down to and simplify it and try to draw an analogy to when I started coaching and like my kids were in the second and first grade and you'd play in these like, rec leagues and they put in these rules that you can't come outside the three point line to play defense. And everybody was like, yeah, that's, that's a good idea because we don't want these kids to be like, you know, having the ball, pressure and stuff like that. And then what happened was, you know, one asshole would figure out he'd be winning by four points with two minutes to go and you couldn't come outside the three point line to guard him. So now he's holding the ball. So now you're going back in and you're like, you're like, hey, man, well, now we got to put in another rule because, like, now there's no me. It just creates something else and there's all, you know. So like, while I'm not smart enough to digest everything that said, their history and everything I've learned in my life is you're going to put in all of these rules and it's going to cause an effect, make for more rules that need to be made because someone's going to figure out how to take advantage of those. That's my life experience. Maybe I'm wrong. So, like, I'm glad they're trying to fix it, because I do. I've said before, I don't love incentivize, tanking. I agree, Howard, with the points that you've always made about that being the vehicle that some teams in, under the current structure need to use to get a star that could change the complexion of their franchise. But any way you could go about as a league trying to, you know, trying to fix that and correct that, I'm okay with that. Not smart enough to understand everything that was said. I appreciate you trying to dumb it
- [11:41]
C
down for me, Howard, man, like we're kind of even if Howard can't get it, huh, Roger? Like, we're kind of cooked as a pop.
- [11:47]
A
Yeah, cooked, bro. As soon as I saw the rundown, soon as I saw the rundown, I'm like, you don't need me. Like, why, why am I here today?
- [11:59]
D
I think the hard part with this guys is, is like, nobody can really even the league. Like, the league probably has models, right, where they're going to game this out, right? Turn it over to, to some computer model, some algorithm and have it play out like or you could just sit down and like, go, well, okay, now the teams that were like, on the fringes of the play in. Okay, cool. They're incentivized to keep winning. Oh, but the teams that are like, a little further back, are they more like you're, you're usually, you're just moving the trigger point for when to lean into losing or maybe lean, lean into winning. I'm not smart enough to know exactly the, the, the ripple effects of all of this. Again, I will be curious to hear whenever they adopt whatever it is for them to then explain it. And, but, but there's always unintended consequences. And this is, go back to, this goes back to the cba. It goes back to Raj's youth league basketball analogy. There's always unintended consequences. When you, you, you apply what seems like this, this easy fix. Oh, we just, we just don't want this to happen anymore. Well, there's always a reaction. And teams are going to always try to find ways, find loopholes or find other ways to, to get where they want to go. I'm not sure about these. I'm just not sure.
- [13:08]
C
I think the reality is there's an elephant in the room here that I don't think a lot of people are talking about when it comes into tanking. You just alluded to it, Howard, but it's. With this new cba, it's really hard to be, to get good if you don't tank. And that's how it's been legislated within the cba. Like, because we have such a hard cap, it's really hard to make trades and get players. And if you don't want to tank, you know, back, like back in Raj's day or back in the day, like, you can, you know, make a deal and you could change without being, without incentivized to go to the draft, you can go make a deal to get another type of either superstar or, or really high level player here. If you trade for a superstar and you trade for picks, it's crippling your franchise for the ne next few years. And the way that owners described it before we got to the CBA was, hey, we need parody. We need parody. The real reason was, hey, we're not trying to spend so much money in luxury tax. I mean, we're not trying to, we're not trying to spend so much money to have all these franchises and we want to do a cheaper way of winning. That's literally how it was, and that's how it always tends to be. But I think that brings an elephant in the room where it's like, we don't talk about that aspect of it. We're just like, we have put together a set of conditions where tanking is the way that we can. The only way we can get better and incentivizes that. But we're really not trying to look at the reasons why we're at this impasse, which is we have a hard cap. It's really hard to put together teams other than through the draft. Yeah, that puts that. That, that brings parody to a certain extent. But, like, also, that goes against, and I've said this time and time again on this podcast, that goes against the history of success that we. The reason behind the history of the success that we have had as a league, which is dynasties. Right. Remember when the, when the games were on tape delay? That's when they had real parody. There was real parody in the 70s. And then, you know, then the 80s come around. You have magic, and then you have the Celtics, and you have these dynasties, and the Bulls, you have these dynasties. Guess what happened? Ratings. You knew these teams, you had these stars. And now we're kind of. We're incentivized not to do that. And that's a whole bunch of reasons. The biggest thing, Howard, I'm saying, is I don't think the league is from a league standpoint, or at least Adam Silver, and he's stuck between a rock and a hard place because he works for these owners. Right. But we're not looking, I think, even at the real problem here, which is the CBA makes it really prohibitive to get better if you're not going about it through the draft. And the way you go through the draft is picks, and the way you get picks is if you good picks is if you tank. Like, I don't. I think this is a really extreme thing. But they were saying, hey, man, even the lottery odds could extend to the first round of the playoffs. What if a team just gets to the first round of the playoffs is like, damn, we're overmatched. Like, extremely overmatched. And they get down 3, 0. Right? Like, you can't legislate out, like, competitiveness, like, you know what I'm saying? And like, oh, hey, we might need this pick. That's a really extreme example, but that's there. Even if you do that, right? Taking isn't going to go away. If you legislate it out, you're not going to legislate out of mindset. I just don't know there's. So that goes back to your point, Howard. Like, this is a really hard thing, but I just don't feel like the league is fully looking in the mirror about the, the, the reasons behind the problems that they have created.
- [16:36]
D
There's a lot there. I'll just say this. There's a case to be made and some people will make it. I won't make it as strongly as others will. But it's worth considering that you don't need to tank to become a really good team necessarily. You don't need to tank to get great talent, necessarily. Because if we look at the last several MVPs, Shay, Gil Alexander, not a top 10 pick. Nikola Jokic, second round pick Joel Embiid was top three. But before that it's, it's Jokic again. It's giannis who was 15th. And then before that it's more traditional. Right. James Harden was a, you know, a top five pick. Westbrook was, I think top five. Steph KD, LeBron. But it, but the recent trend has been teams are finding a lot of elite talent later in the draft. Either, you know, mid lottery, late lottery, second round. Now that's a lot harder task, right? The easiest path to prosperity is be really bad in the year that Wemby is available or that Cooper Flag is available, or that this year's class that we think has three or four absolute studs is available. That still seems like the easiest path, the most obvious path and the most attractive one to teams, which is why tanking still happens. But there's a counter case to be made that if you just, you know, play hard, put a competent team out there, be respectable and draft well, scout well, develop well, maybe you get the next Shay or the next Nicola Jokic in the second round, whatever. Listen, I, I think that's a, that's a much steeper odds. I'm. I'm not going to pretend that that that's as viable as just being bad for a couple of years and going and getting a Wemby or a Tim Duncan. But it's a case. I get it. I think the real issue is not so much about the salary cap or the second apron or everything else. Logan. To me, it's just simply that there are five to 10 franchises that are destination franchises that guys want to go to. And if they are free agents mid career, they can pick those places, they can force trades to those places. And then there's everybody else and especially like the bottom 10, the least attractive cities to NBA players. I'm not judging these cities, but like, they're either cold or they're small, or they're small and they're cold.
- [19:05]
C
And if you are, I think that's,
- [19:07]
D
if you're in those markets, you can't, you can't attract those guys. And so the draft is your, is your only outlet.
- [19:12]
C
I could, I could push back on that a little bit because, like one that's always going to be there, right? Like the, the destination, the five things is all five.
- [19:21]
D
That's why you need, that's why Utah wants to take. Because we can't. If we are the Utah Jazz, we can't get guys to come here. We have to be super bad so that we can draft them and have them for at least seven years.
- [19:33]
C
Yeah, I, I get that. One thing that I do have for you, Howard, you were at the Board of Governors, media availability, where, you know, obviously Adam Silver talked about the tanking issues. He talked about 65 game rule that has been put into effect. He talked about Giannis Adeta Kumbo, which we'll talk about in a second and get Raja back into the fold here. But what, what was your biggest impression of Adam Silver during this press conference? And what do you think that says about him in this current moment?
- [20:04]
D
I mean, it was a 39 minute presser. I timed it. A lot of filibustering lot he does that. I. Without him, it's like sometimes part filibustering, part just, just, just rambling. He. He finds himself on mental tangents and he takes pretty much all of those tangents. So sometimes the answers are, are a little longer than necessary because it, you know, something else pops in his head and suddenly he's talking about tanking. When I actually asked about something else. 39 minutes is great. That's one of the longer pressers we've had from Adam. Uh, but there was a lot to discuss. Right. And it speaks to this moment, which, you know, we talked about this on the pod a month or so ago. There's so much for the league to try to figure out right now. So they announced the exploration of expansion. Not actual expansion, just an exploration. We might go to Seattle and Vegas. Yeah, we might not. So there was a lot to talk about on the expansion front. And in addition to that, still had to come back to tanking. Still had to come Back to the 65 game rule. There were questions about the WNBA and Kathy Engelbert's commissionership, and just the, you know, the CBA having been finally resolved there. There were questions, huge contingent from the Pacific Northwest came out. Shout out to all the reporters from Portland and Seattle coming out to ask about the Blazers and the upgrades they need to the arena there. There's a bunch of public money going in. Silver had just visited Portland but did not speak to the local media for some reason while he was there, so they all had to fly to New York to talk to him the other day. To his credit, he gave them a lot of time after the press conference was over. I I appreciated seeing that, but there was just a lot on the table. My bit, my walkaway oppression. Logan. There's just a lot on the table there and I don't know that we got a lot of real definitive answers. Yeah, Adam. Adam Silver at this moment and this league at this moment have a lot to figure out.
- [21:51]
C
All right, let's take a quick break. We're gonna talk about Giannis Adeticumbo. This episode is brought to you by Men's Wearhouse. What you wear depends on the occasion. Like, are we talking awards, courtside seats, or just watching the game at home? At Men's Wearhouse, they've got you covered with a huge variety of clothing and styles, from clothing like suits, sport coats, dress shirts, tuxes for more formal events to casual clothing like polos, shirts, shorts and jeans for everyday wear. The Men's Wearhouse experts can help you work out your look while their on site tailors guarantee your clothes fit you perfectly. Men's wearhouse has over 600 locations nationwide. They are here and nearby when you're ready to love the way you look.
- [22:30]
E
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- [24:00]
B
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- [24:39]
C
All right. And we are back. Giannis Adeta Kumbo and the Milwaukee Bucks are starting a bit of an impasse. And that impasse is going to be extending to the league. I'll just read from ESPN here. The National Basketball Players association rebuked the Bucks over their dispute with Giannis Adeta Kumbo, implying that Milwaukee is tanking and damaging the NBA's credibility by wanting to shut down the All Star for the rest of the season. Sources told ESPN last week that Adeta Kumbo refused the Bucks interest. The Bucks request to sit out. Excuse me, for the rest of the season. The two time NBA MVP has remained adamant on returning to the court, believing he is not risking any further injury. I mean, we talked about this a couple of weeks ago. Raja and Howard brought up that this was going to happen. I just don't, I don't know where the, you know, the Bucks and Giannis go from here necessarily. But this is getting ugly, right? Like this seems to be getting ugly and I don't know, is it is this, Are they at a point where of no return at this point, Raja, do you think based on, you know, the union starting to get involved in releasing a statement and then now that it seems there's going to be some sort of clash?
- [25:56]
A
Yeah, I, I, I mean, I told you last week, like once, once we even got to the point we were then your relationship is never the same. There's no coming back from that. You've, you've, it's been fractured how, how they have to play the end of it out. You know, whether that's a trade or what have, like, I don't know. But that relationship is sever. It's a, it's a rap. It's unfortunate that we're here. I, I just, you know, I'll double down on, on what I said. You don't have the right as an organization to do that. You don't in my estimation. Now, legally speaking, maybe they do. But like, I, I don't think, I don't think we can, we can. I, I laid it out. I don't, I'm not going to do it again. I laid it out. You want players to play all the time. You want them to do what you need them to do to try to win championships. You'd rather them play through shit that, that, and no one can say that out loud. That's all said behind closed doors. It's hush, hush. But like I'm, and I'm in those meetings, like, I know when we're like, hey, that motherfucker could probably play, man, that's just a tweaked ankle. Let's go. Tape it up. Let's go. We have all those conversations when that suits us as an organization or a fan base. And then when it suits us as an organization or a fan base, we want a warrior to say he ain't going to play and give up whatever portion of his career that is right, because you got a finite amount of games that you, you play in a career and I'm going to give those away and not play because it suits the fan base and the, and the team. I just, I think that shitty and I don't think they have a right to do that. And so I'll stand on that. I was, I was there last week and I'm still there.
- [27:33]
C
Do you think that from a, a player relations standpoint, Howard, at least that, you know, teams can do a better job? Is there a way to get to this point where they, we can find some level of balance here? I mean, because it Feels like it's pretty cut or dry, like, you gonna let me play or you're not, like. And there's gonna be ramifications on each way. Is there a way that there can be some soothing of the relationships between this and maybe some human aspect element of this? Because this is basically human beings going up with corporations interest.
- [28:02]
D
There have been a lot of instances in the past I'm trying to remember. I think like, I'm thinking about like John Wall with Houston, where I think there was like a kind of a mutual decision, if I'm remembering that one correctly. We've had all kinds of players this season, right? Jaren Jackson Jr. Opts for season ending surgery and use of Nurka chops for season ending nose surgery. There are, there are examples we can cite every single year, partially for tanking reasons and partially to preserve a guy where it is mutual, where the player is saying, yeah, this season's toast anyway. I might as well get healthy. I might as well have this surgery that I was putting off. No, I don't have to have it now, but it's a, you know, I might as well get rehabbing sooner than later. So you, you often have this be a cooperative arrangement where a player stops playing because the team wants them. You know, they have other priorities in mind and it suits the player's interest, too. That's fine. In those cases, the union's not getting involved and the league does not have to insert itself. When you see the union issuing a statement the other day about Giannis and the Bucks, it's because, and trust me on this, people, because I had a lot of people coming back at me on this on Blue sky the other day, like, trying to like, say, like, this is all just bullshit. The union's not doing this out of the blue, folks. They're in consultation with the player and his representation before they make this a public stink. To say that the Bucks are at fault here, that the Bucks are keeping him from playing against his will, this is unusual. We don't see this happen very often. And for the union to actually speak up on it indicates that this, this is not to Giannis's or he's not approving of this. So
- [29:50]
A
for them, for them to speak on that, Howard, sorry, but for them, for them to come out and have to do that, it's so much messier than, you know, behind closed doors, like, it is an absolute shit show behind closed doors. If the union has to get involved in the capacity to.
- [30:04]
C
That they're involved in now, what's the what's the stages of, like, what is the tier of. Oh, that this could be, Roger, like, where. How do we get from, like, just normal player. Just like, man, this is some bullshit to, you know, maybe communicating with a team to like, no, now I got to get the union involved. Like, what is the step by step process from. From just dispute of, like, oh, they got me fucked up, too. Now I got to get the union involved.
- [30:30]
A
Well, I think the, you know, the first step is, like, he's injured as a team. You know, hopefully he's out the rest of the season, right? There's. There's hopefulness, then there's conversations, you know, as a player's responsibility is to try to rehab his injury the same way he would if you were in the middle of a championship quest, right? So, like, he's doing that, then it becomes like, hey, I'm feeling good. I want to play. Hey, well, oh, we got.
- [30:54]
C
Let's.
- [30:54]
A
Let's reconvene as a front office. Hey, he says he wants to play in the next few games. Do we want that? We don't want that. Go back to the player. Hey, we don't think it's that. We've gone back to the player. The player. We. Hey, listen, we think it's in our best interest and your best interest not to play. I'm going back to my camp as the player now. Hey, they told me they don't want me to play, but, like, I feel good. I want to play. My agent's now involved in that, so my agent, because this is now, not me, now I got legal representation. Hey, what's going on with this shit, man? You know, Giannis is ready to play. He's telling us that. You guys are telling him we don't want to play. These are. It's another negotiation, basically. I mean, you and. You've reached a point, and this is why I said last week, where it's an impasse. Like, we've agreed to disagree on this shit. You see it one way, I see it one way. Neither one of us is able to really, even if we can appreciate each other's, like, perspective, we're. We're really not interested in it. And that's where you're at. And so what that looks like day to day behind closed doors. I mean, it could be people not speaking anymore. It could be. It could be passive aggressive, like, hey, I'm not attending that shit. Like, it. I don't know. I'm not there. I've been privy to some iteration of this in the Past I was involved in one of them. It's just not a healthy thing for. For a locker room. And once you get that way with the team, it's over. It's just a matter of time on how you can dissolve the relationship. But it is a rap. And I would. I would say again, you know, I don't know if I clearly painted the picture of the way that works behind closed doors, but once it's gotten to this point that we've agreed to disagree and we're. Neither one of us is going to seed like, we have to get the next level of representation involved, which is the players union, and that's not a good look. That's not a good look for Milwaukee. It's not. I don't. I don't care what, you know, fan of the Bucks thinks that that's what they need to do. And all of that can be true. This is not a good look from players side, from potential, like, employees looking at the Bucks doing this. It's not. To Howard's point, there are plenty of times where this is a mutually agreed upon thing. Hey, dude, you shut it down. Yeah, dude, I would shut it down. I don't give a shit. Like, this shit is over. That works out. That's easy money. That's usually the way it works. But if you come up against somebody who's. Who's basically saying, hey, everything you've ever asked me to do that I did, I'm now going to continue to do it, and it's not in your favor now, like, this doesn't benefit you in any way, and it's not your right to ask me to change the way I've approached this when it was to your benefit. That's essentially what he's doing. That's what this boils down to. I'm conducting myself the same way I've always conducted myself as a Milwaukee Buck. It just happened to be in your interest as. As a Bucks franchise, and now it's not, and you're asking me to change that, and I'm not with it. That's a terrible look for the Bucks.
- [33:47]
C
What wins out here, Howard? Because, I mean, say if they go to litigation and we don't have that much time left in the season, but say if they go into litigation and Giannis wins and he suits up, it's going to be awkward, right? Like, it's. It's, you know, he's. He's going to be representing the Milwaukee Bucks, but he's going to be pissed off at them even more so than he's been pissed off at them all season. Behind the scenes, where do we go from here?
- [34:12]
D
I don't think in my memory and sometimes I, sometimes I forget. I don't think there's been a case like this where a player really wanted to play and the team just said no. And, and like, listen, we don't mean like the 12th man who's just.
- [34:28]
A
I mean, there are plenty of cases of that, Howard.
- [34:30]
C
Plenty of that. It's levels here. There's levels.
- [34:35]
D
Sun Gene. You just ain't good enough to play. Folks, that is not.
- [34:40]
C
Hey, man, you know, like, I know we said that, you know, let's, let's talk this out, guys. You know, I know that like, I just, I'm on a two way here, but like, hey, man, can we just like negotiate me getting back on the court?
- [34:49]
D
I don't, I don't think the two way guys is going to be able to succeed on a grievance.
- [34:54]
C
You better chill out before I get the union evolved. Coach.
- [34:57]
D
This is, this is Giannis, though this is a little different. It was nine days ago now, I think eight days ago, that, that there were twin stories in the Athletic and espn, both saying that there's tension between the Bucks and Giannis over whether he should play and that the, that the Bucks wanted him to sit out the last, you know, several weeks and that Giannis still wants to play. But the Bucks defense so far has been. And this was in those stories. He's not cleared yet. He's not medically cleared. So where we're headed here is with the union now having this know, firing off this statement the other day, making this. It was already public, but they've now made it a union issue. Are they going to follow up with a grievance? Because then there's a process. Adam Silver, when he was presented with this the other day, said, I wasn't aware of it until the union statement, which is silly. Like, I don't, I don't understand Adam's response there at all. Like, the stories about this were written in two major publications a week ago.
- [35:50]
C
Hey. And that the league didn't know about this before. Stuff gets written. It's known for weeks. I'm just, I'm being real in a lot of cases, like, it's known in league circles for weeks.
- [35:59]
D
So like, by the way, by the way, I will say this with extreme confidence. I have no doubt in my mind that the union let the league know that they were going to issue the statement before they do it. They don't Just blindside the league. I'm sure the league knew Adam playing dumb on this was weird, but there's no. Unless the union actually files a grievance, I don't know if there's any process that. That the league has to respond to. They can simply wait for the Bucks to. To either clear him or not. And if he's cleared and not playing, that's when it becomes an issue regarding tanking, regarding player rights to play. However you want to frame that. I don't know if we're there yet, because so far, there's still no indication that he's been medically cleared. Now, are they dragging their feet on medically clearing him? That's the question. And again, that goes back to whether the union has something to act on.
- [36:54]
A
Yeah.
- [36:54]
C
Which is unprovable, but, you know.
- [36:56]
D
Yeah, I was unprovable. It's unprovable for us. But, you know, somewhere between, you know, the league, the union and the Bucks and Giannis, I'm sure they could find a way to make a determination that everybody would consider objective.
- [37:09]
B
What.
- [37:09]
A
What's. What's his injury?
- [37:11]
C
Hyper extension. Yeah.
- [37:13]
A
See, that's one of those weird ones.
- [37:15]
C
Even after he has a calf injury, the.
- [37:17]
A
But the legality of it, in terms of whether or not you're clearing him or not, right? Like, doc, your doctor may say yes. His doctor. I mean, your doctor may say no, his doctor may say yes. Right?
- [37:28]
C
Like, it's.
- [37:29]
A
I mean, if he's. If. If. If universally, every doctor is like, hey, brother, look. Look at that. That's torn. He can't play, then this is moot. But if it's one of those situations where, again, there. There. There is a threshold of pain that most dudes get used to playing with. Now, everyone's different, but, you know, you can find a doctor to either clear you or rule you out. Professional athletes do this all the time. I think you guys understand what I'm saying here, right? Like, if you want to get cleared and there's no real tear in your knee, you find a motherfucker to clear you. So, you know, that becomes interesting to me, too, right? Like, if it's a thing of, like, hey, I have doctors that say, I'm clear and I can play basketball, but the Bucks doctor is the only one that won't clear me again. I don't know. It's just messy. And I do think it's a poor look for the Milwaukee Bucks. Like, I don't. I don't think anyone looking at them from the player's perspective is Going to look at that. And. And while it might not ultimately stop them from going there, it's not attractive to them.
- [38:35]
C
Yeah. I think one of the things you're alluding to, Roger, like, and this is ready. You ready to just stretch out and just talk some shit, like, just about just, just like.
- [38:43]
A
No.
- [38:44]
C
Just wax poetic. No, my thing is, it's like you make up a great. You put up a great point in terms of what you're alluding to, which is teams are always a. Not just. Whatever actions that they do don't just affect the player that they're, you know, in an impasse with. It's an audition for the rest of the league. Right. Especially like, considering that they're going to trade Giannis at some point. He's not going to be a Milwaukee next year, for all intents and purposes. It doesn't seem like it, at least. And so they're about to get to the post Giannis era and, you know, they have a bit more power over the players that they draft, but the players that come in are all looking at this. They're all seeing what's going on now and the fact that how they treat their play, how this team treats its players. Do teams realize in the moment the ramifications of their actions going, you know, years. Good teams down the line. Okay.
- [39:37]
A
Good teams. Good teams do like.
- [39:40]
C
Or maybe good front offices because, well, teams aren't always good.
- [39:43]
A
Yeah, sorry. That's a better way to put it. You're absolutely right. Well, run organizations do.
- [39:47]
C
Yeah, right.
- [39:48]
A
They understand the, the, the, you know, the kind of holistic type of the whole thing. Basketball. We've got the, the, you know, all the things behind closed doors in terms of taking care of you and your family. And, you know, all these things go into. When I'm looking at you and I'm on that tour as a free agent to try to figure out if this is where I want my wife and my kids hanging out when I'm playing games. Like all the. It's, it's. We're taking a holistic view of your operation here. Do you know what I mean? And so certainly, the way you treat. Maybe. I mean, would you say Oscar Robertson is the best. Oscar Robertson's the best buck of all time. Right. Or. Or, or Kareem. But like, Giannis is top three.
- [40:29]
C
No, he's in that conversation.
- [40:31]
D
You could, you could argue he's. He's the. I actually made once that he's the best.
- [40:36]
A
Right?
- [40:36]
C
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [40:37]
D
Part because of his longevity with them, too.
- [40:39]
A
Yeah. So either way, I'm fine with that too, Howard. But I guess my point is if, if, if, if you were treating someone like that this way at the end of the relationship. Yeah, man, that is not going to speak to people who have opportunities elsewhere, everything else being equal. Now, again, I would say there are situations where the money that Milwaukee is throwing around is not equal to the money that Chicago is throwing around, just using another city. And so therefore, some of these things might not come into play in the same way. Right, because we're not doing a complete checklist because you've already given me the premium on the money side of it. But apples to apples, that's not a good look for them. And if we're being honest, Howard was talking last segment about some of those cities that were cold and, and don't. And people, you know, historically don't necessarily see that is where I want to sign. You can't afford to do that. And so, again, I don't want to. I'm not all upset about it. I just don't think it's a good look. I don't think this one's that hard, especially given the fact, Howard, that, that you made the point that when he plays, they're still not good. This is not hard.
- [41:57]
C
I, I think the other thing, and we've seen this throughout the season, there's been, there's been examples of teams doing this wrong. You know, before this, it was the Clippers. Right. And, um, I think your point and the Clippers have, you know, are in a similar vein in this. You're talking about the greatest player arguably in your franchise history. If you treat him like whatever you treat him like, other stars are going to see that. Right? Like this is example is more for the Clippers because they are trying to be more in the star hunting business. Because the fact of the matter is Milwaukee is going to try to draft their next star and are kind of hempecked by the fact that they are in Milwaukee. But I think it's still the same, right? Because as you were talking, Raj, I'm thinking about the Spurs. Are the spurs necessarily in a desirable place to live? I mean, for me, I. With San Antonio.
- [42:49]
A
I like San Antonio, but I like San Antonio. But when you come, when you compare it to the other.
- [42:53]
C
I'm talking about future young millionaire. I'm talking about young millionaires. I'm not talking about, you know, for
- [42:58]
A
you ain't said nothing wrong. Yeah.
- [43:00]
C
Thank you, thank you, thank you. You know, I'm from California and it feels some type of way. Texans will feel some type of way wave. I should I say that. But the reason why they have been good for so long and a deemed a great front office is because they have the history of treating teams or treating players good and having that type of front office that is welcoming to people. Because you need that on that level. Right. Like, I'll say one thing. Utah doesn't necessarily have that track record over the last few decades in treating players right. Like they've drafted well, but they don't necessarily have that sterling reputation. You need that when you have that. The Clippers are in a big market but need some type of anecdote to the Lakers in that market. Now do they? Are they going to have it? Not necessarily, but they need to strive for that. You know, they have the best facilities, but they need, you know, probably a little bit more help on the people side of it. But that's what you need in this balance, right? And I think that that's the, the disappointing aspect of what's going on in Milwaukee, but that's really so important. I think we'd be losing the plot on, you know, especially in the analytics era, the human element of all these things. Right? Because like few years ago, everybody was talking shit about the Lakers about how, why, why did you sign Kobe to that monstrous deal? And he, he can't really, you know, he can't make good on that. He's. You're not going to compete for a championship. The reason and the Lakers reasoning, and I think that that speaks to where we're at right now, is because one, he's Kobe fucking Bryant and two, we want to show the rest of the league we take care of our stars. So even though they sucked, LeBron sees that and is like, oh. Huh? That's how they treat their stars.
- [44:39]
A
Yeah. They called that a legacy deal for Kobe. It's a legacy deal for the Lakers, too.
- [44:45]
C
Yeah.
- [44:46]
A
Because forever a star will look at them to your point and be like, they'll take care of me. They'll do it.
- [44:51]
C
If you're telling me like, any of you telling me like, Logan, that's just the Lakers. Shut up. Point taken. Guess what the Portland Trailblazers did with Damian Lillard. They were like, oh, man, this sucks, man. Like, we can't really win with you anymore. We're going to try to give you a chance to win. We'll send you to Milwaukee to go play with. With Giannis Adetokumbo. Right. And that doesn't work out. He goes back to, you know, he goes back to Portland, and it's all gravy, and they treat him like a deity that he's supposed to be treated like, right. And we just. We need to get more of that. Like, it's not going to be wins and losses all of the time, but it does have to have the human element in the face of analytics or when the face of just corporate. Everything in the queer corporate bottom line. It has to be some human element there, too.
- [45:34]
A
Yeah, I want you to get in, Howard, but I just say this, especially if we're not. If we're not talking about a star that, throughout his. His, you know, career with you has been difficult to deal with, has been. Has been holding you hostage for certain things. We're talking about, you know, guys like, they were good soldiers for your organization for a long time, you know, and when you're talking about those guys, you know, Damian Lillard could have asked out of Portland, you know, years and years and years before it happened. When the, when you. When you've been there with that guy and you've seen the efforts that he's put in and you guys have lived the frustration and the disappointment together over the course of his career, the hope would be that at the end of that, you do treat him right now. He was a butthead the whole time and making life miserable and stuff like that. Look, we're all humans, you know, some. Sometimes, like I was told by a general manager when they shipped Darren Williams out, sometimes you get what you deserve. I didn't think Darren deserved it. That's what he told me. Right. So, like, there are human elements in that. Sometimes when people aren't getting along, but when you've gotten along and it's been all good, I think you're supposed to treat them with a modicum of respect and professionalism, just as. Just as, you know, gratitude for the time that was given and the work that was put in you.
- [46:46]
C
Passing the ball to you, Howard. There you go.
- [46:49]
D
Now, just last thought is that Giannis is almost certainly going to be somewhere else next season, and the Bucs are going to have to deal with whatever the reputation and standing is in the wake of that. Right. Did you treat him well on the way out with the trade itself? Some people may judge based on, hey, did you send him where he wanted to go, or did you just send him to where you got the best deal? You hope that that's the same thing. Did you, you know, how. How did he leave? Did he leave on good terms? And right now it looks really messy and really, you know, tense because of that. Yeah. To Roger's point, it may cause, maybe cause for concern for agents and players when they're considering Milwaukee at a time when it's going to be the, the most important for them to make themselves attractive because you will no longer have that anchor superstar and you're, you're back to rebuilding. And so, you know, there may be a price to be paid for this later. That said, the system is so tight right now, you know, the finances of it all the, the, the salary cap situations across the league that in any given summer, if you want to get paid, you either have to, you know, find a way to get traded somewhere and then get paid later or get your extension first, then get traded, or you go to the teams that have cap room. And if Milwaukee is one of the handful of teams that has cap room in a given summer, then suddenly all the, you know, stuff we're talking about goes out the window because it's like, well, they're the ones that can give me 30 million a year.
- [48:10]
C
That's enough money. Chicago's a little bit is closer than I thought it was. We'll figure it out. It's fine. One thing before we get to one of the week. For the last two weeks, Cliff has been hounding me to ask you this, Raja, what do you think of Darius at Cliff Jr. From Arkansas?
- [48:29]
A
Yeah, didn't have a great game last night, but he's the real deal, man. He's, he's a, he's a tough three level scoring guard. Like, he's, he, he's the real deal. I haven't like dissected or broke down his game, but my son Ty really likes to watch him and likes Arkansas. So like I've, I've watched him play a few times now. I mean, really good first step, efficient scorer, can really set you up. But he, he's, he's a lead guard. He's an NBA high level lead guard for sure. He does a lot of, a lot of stuff that, that would impact winning because a lot of these guards now have to have the ball for like so long to get into their like respective bags or whatever. Like he's right at you like bop bop bop and he's in your paint and he's on the rim. He's got a little AI ness to him in regards to his ability to finish at the size in the paint the way he does, but also a really proficient and efficient shooter. I like him a lot. Like he's gonna be a really good
- [49:29]
C
top, you know, in this Draft. What do you think he is or you think he is in this draft?
- [49:36]
A
I'm just going through the top three are going to be though, you know, the bands that Peterson Cam. Caleb Wilson's going to be in there somewhere. I don't know. I think he's the first guard probably for sure.
- [49:47]
C
He's like the, I think he's the first pg.
- [49:49]
A
Sorry.
- [49:49]
C
He's the perfect Caliperi archetype in terms of point guards. Right. Just get to the rim, is compact, just knows what he wants to do. I, I'm doing a story. I'm not going to say what it is until it comes out, but I was, I was interviewing a lot of people around a player and they were just talking about like when you're in the league, you, the biggest thing that you need to do is one, find a way to get to your spots and get to your spots efficiently. Right. Like anytime you get, you can get away with, you know, just like dribbling and you know, the step back and just like around in the shot clock when you're in, in college or even in high school. But once you're in the league, you have to be decisive. Right. You don't have that much time because everybody's so athletic and everybody is so good and just watching him play, it seems like he just figures that out, especially as a guard.
- [50:41]
A
Yeah, he's going to be really good in the league too because like last night I say he struggled a bit. What you can do in college basketball is you take Arizona. That's massive. And they're huge. And there's no defensive like 3 seconds rules. They could just pack the paint and make it really, really difficult with space. And the NBA has like, you know, legislated space into their game. He's going to be a problem for sure.
- [51:06]
C
For sure. Yeah. Got it. You got anything, Howard? Anything? Anything for college now? Okay.
- [51:11]
D
As I always say, I, I, I don't, I don't pay attention to the minor leagues.
- [51:15]
A
Oh, hey, that ain't minor leagues no more, man. Boys get paid millions of dollars.
- [51:24]
C
Howard's like, I'll see you when you get here. I feel that line worked really well
- [51:28]
D
for most of the last 30 years. And suddenly it's like with the money going into college basketball, maybe it's, that is the pros too. So it's still. But like, you know, hey, in baseball, the minor leagues are pros. They're just not, they're not mlb. Right. It's the same thing. It's the same.
- [51:43]
C
True. It's True.
- [51:44]
A
Fair enough.
- [51:45]
C
Yeah, yeah.
- [51:45]
D
I'll deal with them when they get here.
- [51:47]
C
Yeah.
- [51:49]
A
Two good and coffee creamers are made
- [51:51]
D
with farm fresh cream, real milk and
- [51:53]
C
contain 3 grams of sugar per serving.
- [51:55]
D
That's 4 40% less than the 5
- [51:57]
C
grams per serving in leading traditional coffee
- [51:59]
A
creamers for a rich delicious experience.
- [52:02]
D
Whether you enjoy your coffee hot, cold,
- [52:04]
C
bold or frothy, two good coffee creamers make every sip a good one. Two good coffee creamers, real goodness in every sip. Find them at your local Kroger in the creamer aisle. Let's get to the real one of the week. Howard Beck, your real one of the week.
- [52:23]
D
I mean we've already alluded to it but it was, it was, it was double barreled. So I'm still going to do it. My real one of the week is the nbpa, the Players Association. Andre Gadala, who's, who's now winding down his, his term as executive director. David Kelly is coming in to succeed him in a couple of months. Whether it was either of them or you know, the, the lawyers, pr, whoever decided on this double barreled assault on the league, I'm all for it. Not because I'm taking sides here at all on the Giannis front or on the 65 game front. We didn't discuss this, this one but you know, they also issued a statement about Cade Cunningham and the collapsed lung wiping out probably the rest of his regular season which would then knock him out of contention for MVP for all NBA, for everything because of the 65 game rule. And this is one where I think I'm on the record. I, I, I'm, I was always against the 65 game rule and I agree with the union on this one. I just real one of the week to the union because I, we've had many, many years here of labor peace, which is a good thing on balance. But I do feel like we don't hear from the union that often these days. There was a time when I feel like they were a little bit more consistently vocal and pushing back in the league on various player rights issues or various concerns of the course of the season when they issued both of these in quick succession the other day on the same day, within like 10 minutes of each other. I just thought that's good, it's, it's healthy, it's healthy for the league to get some pushback and for the union to be weighing in on these issues. I had been poking around about the 65 game thing for the last couple of weeks and, and at the time that I did. Nobody was really ready to like, say, on behalf of the agents, the union, whoever, that they were ready to start really going after this. But then like five more things happen, including Cade, and suddenly now there's like this avalanche of statements coming out. And I have a feeling it's going to lead to change eventually, but we'll see. In any case, good to hear from the union the other day.
- [54:23]
C
Fuck around and find out, huh? Roger.
- [54:25]
A
Yes, sir. You go, Migo.
- [54:28]
C
You go.
- [54:30]
A
Okay. So I was, I was trying to look up like, Big Ten, like, standings from the, from the regular season. I don't have them in front of me, so I'm not going. But I'm going to give roll one of the week to Ben McCollum, the head coach of the Iowa Hawkeyes as they advanced to the Elite Eight last night, knocking off Nebraska in what was a really, really entertaining game. I mean, it was tied, I think, with like three or four minutes to go. I was flipping back and forth between that and Texas, Purdue, but I'm giving him row one of the week because they knocked off Florida last week, which, you know, not many people saw coming. And the way they did it, I thought was. Was pretty cool. It was kind of near and dear to my heart. Like, Florida's a big, physical, like, knock you in the mouth type of team. And it was clear from the jump that Iowa was there to punch the bully, so to speak, in the mouth. And they were able to win that advance to the Sweet 16 win again last night during the Elite Eight. And when you look at their roster, it's not all the five stars, like number one or two players in the country, littered across it. You know, it's a, It's a team that he built. Some of it through the portal, you know, some of it through talent evaluation that may have went under the radar. Like Iowa, probably like Milwaukee or some of the teams Howard was referring to. You know, they've had a rich basketball history, but like, I don't think when you say that to your average recruit in Florida or in North Carolina, I don't think Iowa's going to be like their dream school, if you will. Do you know what I mean? And like, he's put together something really cool. I love the way they play. Like, they, they got good actions, that ball's moving around, they shoot it. And so I got to give him a lot of credit, man. That's my real one of the week. Ben McCollum, Iowa Hawkeyes Elite Eight.
- [56:16]
C
There you go. I'm going to go with The Charlotte Hornets who went into the garden and just ran roughshod over Vin's nicks. They're gonna one mixtape and one mixtape. I love it when it works. It's pretty great, you know, like it's pretty awesome. And they're playing right now with like just so free and of the playing teams are the one that I want to see I want to watch play but if I'm the Pistons if I am if they can also get into and probably the there's a chance that the Hornets can play themselves out of the plane now it's a lot a lot has to happen there. But the Raptors are playing like have been playing like over the last few weeks. The Magic yuck. Like I think Mosley's going to be out as head coach soon. The Sixers sorry Cliff are trending downwards. If the Hornets get to like six, we are cooking with grease. Charlotte Hornets Roger's favorite team from just OG status just for years now. Just, you know, he always saw it in him and now we're all seeing them as a as an NBA community. But shout out to the Charlotte Hornets. Real One of the week. We'll see you guys next week. Real ones we're cooking. That's all I really got. Real ones. Mailbag gmail.com real onesmailback gmail.com real onesmailBack gmail.com would be answering your questions. Real One of the Week To Raja Bell for getting through this all the shits. Bye. Must be 21 years and older and present in select states. For Kansas, an affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 and older and present in D.C. kentucky or Wyoming gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or 1-800-MYRESET. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org backslash chatincenectic or visit mdgamblinghelp.org In Maryland, Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelpma.org or call 1-800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-HOPE NY or text HOPE NY in New York. For Louisiana, call 1-877-770-7867.