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- [00:00]
Raja Bell
Foreign.
- [00:12]
Logan Murdoch
Real ones. Logan Murdoch here, Roger, Bill there. And by there I mean live from Vegas. It's gonna be a doozy. Let's get right to it. Let's talk about the New York Knicks, who are currently 19 and 7 in the east, right behind the Detroit Pistons. They're currently on a seven game winning streak. In the last calendar month they've only lost two games. They're in the raza zone of top five in points per game, three pointers made and three point percentage. Second offensive rating behind Denver, fourth in that rating, fourth. And opponents points per game and they won the NBA Cup. Raja, how do, how do you feel about the Knicks so far this season? And how do they sustain this, whatever this magic is? How do they sustain it?
- [00:59]
Raja Bell
Yeah, I mean, I like, I like the Knicks, I like the Knicks, especially in the Eastern Conference when you're talking about, you know, how, how wide open that is. They're, they're experienced in the playoffs in the Eastern Conference, you know, they, they're, they're shooting the ball a little more freely this year, I think from three. But, but when I, you know, when I go back and look at all of their numbers, I mean Brunson's fractionally up cats fractionally down points per game, that is OG's hovering. What they have this year that they didn't have last year is a, is a bench that can produce, you know, they can go into their depth a little bit more, which allows you to sustain, you know, runs within games. It allows you to sustain like, you know, runs throughout the course of, you know, a stretch of games because you're not, you're not having to always run those starters deep, deep into the fourth quarter in games that you ordinarily would be able to put away to start the fourth quarter because there's a handful of those throughout the course of an NBA season, right when you're a good team or hey, we could get up out of here, we can let this bench get in there and coach doesn't have to worry about that league disappearing on us in three minutes. And now we have to go back in and close. So, you know, I like what they're doing. I like what Mike Brown's done with them offensively freeing them up a little bit. They do some, they do some good stuff. You know, when pick and rolls taking place or primary action up top where they're moving guys now a little bit, which is occupying defenders and just, you know, just little wrinkles here and there. But I, I like the Knicks especially, you know, in the Eastern Conference, that is, that is wide open right, right now. You'd look at it and say, them and Detroit, we saw that last year. It was a really good, you know. Well, I mean, it was a good series, I thought. I. I give Detroit credit for playing them a little tougher than I thought. But. But if you're the Knicks, you take that.
- [02:46]
Podcast Host/Announcer
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- [03:49]
Logan Murdoch
I love your point about the bench and what they have been doing with the bench. I think there's more of a trust there than there was last year. You know, they also got Jordan Clarkson. They got a lot of guys that can, that can play off the bench and that can score off the bench and kind of supplement when the starters are out. Case in point of a game like the Pacers game last night, which was I think we're going to start as long as we have the NBA cup, we're going to start seeing the difficulty with the game after the NBA Cup. You saw that last night with the Thunder, where the Thunder get down. I think they were down like 10 points to the Clippers, right where they're just trying to get their motion back and and the Knicks go into Indiana. It's one of those slog games that you play like shit. But you have to bring, you know, you have to trust your guy at the end and they trusted Brunson in the end. But for the large stretches of that game. There were guys that a lot of people in the NBA fan would be like, who's that? Who's that? A lot of those type of guys stepping up to the plate and continuing that lead and making sure that they have a game down the stretch for Jalen Brunson to kind of finish. And you're starting to see more of those types of things. And I think one of the things that gets neglected with dibs is he plays these guys so many minutes that when either a guy is going to go down and you run him into the ground, or if a guy is injured, you don't trust anyone to step up in the biggest moments. And I think, you know, when I think about this, I think about the spurs back in the day when, you know, they would get in trouble for, you know, load management, before it was load management. But they would have these games where they would sit Timmy, they would sit monitor, they would sit Tony and the bench would get him a game or they would play really well and win a game that they're not supposed to. And you would see those same guys in January win those games in April and May and June. And I'm starting to see that. One other thing that you brought up, and I really want to talk about this because both of us have a relationship with this guy or have had experiences with this guy, and that's Mike Brown. And this was a quote after. I think this was after the Pacers game. This is from Jalen Brunson. And he talks about the confidence that Mike Brown has instilled in the team. And he says it shows the confidence and trust that Mike has in us to figure it out. He's unafraid to fail. And I think that mindset of not being afraid to fail is good for us because it allows us to continue to fight. It allows us to go out there and not worry about the result. We may play great defense on a possession, hit a tough shot, we may play great game all game and lose in the final bus buzzer, but we're not afraid to fail. I think that's big time for us. We've got to continue to do that and have that mindset going forward. And I felt like that was a very instructive quote on the metamorphosis of Mike Brown, because even two years ago, I remember talking to Malik Monk about Mike Brown, and he says he wants to be a perfect in an imperfect world. And. And I think you saw a lot of that when you saw him in Cleveland. And I kind of see a more of A freeness. Now, I don't know how long that's going to last, but I really do like what I've seen from Mike Brown with this group. And you've seen that, that trust really work out in games like last night and also games like the NBA cup where they're down. They put in a lineup with Mitchell, Robinson and that bench, and that gets them back into the game against the spurs and. And they ended up winning that game. What have you thought about Mike Brown and this metamorphosis, even in this small sample size that we have him in the Knicks?
- [07:25]
Raja Bell
Well, let me, let me touch first on, on, you know, the development of, of your bench, right. Like, it's really, you know, it's interesting because to few trust your bench, they have to get out there and perform at a level and succeed on a level that, that instills trust in other people, the coach, their teammates, you know, the front office, so on and so forth. But to even be afforded that opportunity, you know, like, they've got to earn that trust by going out there and doing it, but they've got to be afforded that trust up front to have the opportunity to go out there and make the mistakes that you're. That you might be talking about Logan, right? Because you're not coming in off the bench every game. First time they call your number and being perfect as a bench player, like, it just doesn't work like that. There may be some instances where you come out and you're three for three and you hit all your assignments and now, you know, your shift is over. But more often than not, like, you're just knocking jitters off, especially the first couple of times you're called on. And so that is imperfect. And so someone's got to look at it and understand that and, and not obsess about the imperfect and give you another opportunity to go out there the next time so that you can, hey, I'm a little bit better this time as a player, right? And like that, now I'm developing into someone that you can trust more. But it started with you trusting me in the first place, right? And so, like, you know, it's a weird thing. And as far as the psyche of a player goes, I always felt from a coach, I could feel the way you felt about me reflected in the way you coached me, right? So, like, we read everything as players, your facial expression when we make a mistake, the tone of your voice, like when you're instructing us, whether you have patience with us. No, I mean, these are just things Right. Especially as a young player, when I'm looking around and I'm like, yo, does this cat have patience with me or is he just looking to bite my head off every time I make a mistake? And those things register and they stay with us. So, you know, coaches develop too. And through trial and error, like, Mike Brown's been with some great coaches. He's had success in some places. He's had some failure in some places. But I think what he's starting to understand, especially with this generation of player, Logan, is that like, these guys respond way more and respond better to positivity, to, you know, less hands on than the generation before. You know, the generation before was, you know, those coaches were basically trying to play, you know, some of them were trying to play Xbox with you. You know, like they were so far in your head every possession that you were like, I can't even think. Now. The better ones, like Mike d', Antoni, you know, offensive ones, I should say, the better offensive minds, they were kind of hands off and they kind of let you do what you. You do. And because of that, I would have had a quote very similar to Brunson's about Mike Brown when talking about Nelly or Mike d', Antoni, because those guys just instilled confidence. Because, you know, first of all, they let you know it, they verbalized it, but you never really looked over with, at them and saw them super frustrated or all bent out of shape because you made a mistake. It was always, hey, onto the next, let's figure it out. And, and that, you know, players respond to that, especially on the offensive side of the ball. Now what I would say to you is on the defensive side of the ball, guys like Larry Brown, you know, Jerry Sloan, you know, they didn't have that same hands off, you know, instilling confidence approach on, on the offensive end. So, like, I didn't have those feelings about them, but on the. Because they were sticklers and they were in your ass and they were, you know, defensively, they usually put out a better product.
- [11:11]
Logan Murdoch
Yeah, yeah, no, it's the. I wanna, I'm staying on this. When you talk about the balance that's required on that, right? Because sometimes you just, I mean, and you're talking about legendary coaches here. So, like, we're kind of splitting hairs, right? When you have the Nellies, the Mike Browns, the Larry Browns, or not the Mike Browns, the Mike d', Antonis, the. The Larry Browns, what's the balance that you have to have on staff? When you either have a hard ass to leading your bench or maybe a. An easygoing person leading your bench. Do you have to have a, like a number one assistant? That is different, right? Like, I think about a Doc Rivers and a Tom Thibodeau in Boston, right? Like, Doc Rivers is a guy's guy and very personable. And then you had the defensive coordinator, Tibbs, like, hey, you could hear him, like, on the sidelines, like, what, out of the staff. Like, what kind of balance do you need?
- [12:01]
Raja Bell
Yeah, no, I mean, balance is the word, right? Like, you got to have whatever your head is, your associate head or your number one assistant needs to be the opposite of that. And maybe, maybe he could be a chair removed from the head assistant. But you have to have. You have to have. If your coaches. Your head coach is a vibes guy. Hey, chill. Everything's gonna be all right, brother. Let's focus. You have to have that voice of reason that I'm not around guys, somewhere close to him on that bench. And if your head is the, hey, I'm not around, like, I. You. You already know what time it is with me. And you got to have a vibes. A guy that can bring. Bring a young player over and be like, he's tripping. You know he's going to be tripping. Like, just keep doing what you do. Everything's going to be all right. You got to have that guy close to him. So balance within the staff is important. And then, you know, the delegation of responsibility, right? Like, because some coaches might have their, you know, their counter, you know, personality near them, but they don't free them up in a way that allows them to really do their job. So, like, that, you know, all of that thing is, all of those things are important to staff, for sure.
- [13:06]
Logan Murdoch
I think it's funny, like, I don't know what Mike Brown is right now in this small sample size. And also, like, I haven't, like, seen him as I saw him in summer league, but I haven't seen him as a member of the Knicks coach in person. But I do remember, like, when I was covering both in Sacramento up and in the Bay, he was just a stickler for detail in a way that was just kind of sometimes scary, to be honest with you. Sometimes he would, like, like, I don't know if I've told this story on the pod, but he used to take pictures of his outfits all 82 games and take pictures from down to the suits to the tie, to the shoes every game and would have it out on his phone so he could cross reference for what he had going on the road, right. That was a stickler, right? And then he began, like, as the. With the Kings. Every little detail, he would get on their ass. And I think a lot of ways that kind of. I don't. I want to separate two things. One, I think he got a raw deal in Sacramento because it's Sacramento. But on the other hand, he did kind of wear that team out with the attention to detail. And here it seems like he's kind of taking the foot off of the gas. And like, also, he can be a, like a vibes guy. Like, if you see him, he's kind of the life of the party, if, you know, you know, at Golden State. But I think what's required after all of those years with dibs and getting to a certain point, I feel like this Knicks team needed a breath of fresh air. Like, man, that was just a lot of work, right? Like, do you think that that is working for the Knicks right now? Just like that. Okay, cool. Like, we. We're not going to get a foot in our ass every. Every game, every time out. We're going to actually get like, you know, some version of affable guy.
- [14:58]
Raja Bell
Yeah, that's an interesting question, Logan, because there is a period of time like, you know, you leave a relationship and that person was overbearing in any way, shape or form, that if you hopped into another relationship, you might go find somebody that was just the opposite of that. And vibes will be super high for a while until you may figure out at some point that that person has their own faults and there were some benefits to having the person that you had before, you know, and so that remains to be seen because, you know, like I said, while. While. While tibbs offensively and the grind that he could put players through in terms of just overall minutes and just maybe mental bandwidth doesn't. Does. If you're not getting over the hump with that style, it can burn you out. There's also some benefit to that style. It raises the floor of who you can be in certain instances, right? Because, like, you know, push comes to shove, preparation, understanding, you know, assignment driven is going to be right because he beats it into you. So, like, you're going to get that kind of stuff right now. The freedom, the relaxation to play good offense and be who we are might not always be there. So that might limit your. Your ceiling, but the floor is going to be set relatively high. Now, Mike Brown is going to remain to be seen, but I do think what you see from them offensively is sort of a refreshing, like, kind of breath for them. Right? This is a. This is a. Hey, man, We. We are now freed up in some instances to play through these mistakes and do things. And, you know, it might even be as simple as, like, their off days are kind of, you know, more reflective of a chill personality than they might have been under tibs. I don't know. I'm not there. You know, I know Tibbs used to be a beat you up in practice, kind of take two years off for your career kind of coach, but it'll remain to be seen. And as far as I could say about Mike, like, I didn't know Mike Brown super well. He was on staff, I believe, when I was in training camp with San Antonio, and then I was a consultant at the time, coming to see him with the Cavs towards the end of that. And that team, when you walked into practice and David Griffin asked me to hang around for two days and just kind of let him know what I thought of the team's response, if you will, to, like, Mike's messaging. And it took me all of two hours to be like, yeah, no, they're out like this. I mean, these.
- [17:24]
Logan Murdoch
You caught them late in the season during that time. Right. Like, it was like, later in there.
- [17:28]
Raja Bell
This was. Yeah, that is basically the end of the season. And you could just feel the vibes. You know, there was nothing that Mike was doing per se, the days that I was there. But you could look around and see people's body language. You could see, you know, their lack of interest in what was coming from him. Like, it just was obvious. Right. What he did to get them there. I don't know. They were losing, and, like, you know, losing makes everything more miserable. So the proof will be in two things. As I see it. Like, if the Knicks hit a tough stretch, like, our vibe's still really high. And then if we're being honest, like, what does Mike Brown do late game like he did with the, you know, the. The Pacers situationally throughout the course of a playoff run that either allows them to overcome and achieve some of their goals or underachieves. Right. And that'll be. That'll be the determining factor because we could say what we want, but Tim's had them in a really good spot last year. They. They just didn't get over the hook.
- [18:27]
Logan Murdoch
Yeah, it's. It's. There's a lot to prove. That's why I say it's a small sample size. Right. Like, I mean, part of it. Like, I just said, like, it was There was some burnout there in his last days in Sacramento. And also, like, I remember my first time that I ever seen Mike Brown was like my first day ever, like, interning. I was like, it was during the lockout year and the Lakers were up in Sacramento and I went to the game and I went to the shoot around. This was like, to start the season. Raja, remember when they had. You were. You played. They had the back to back to back. He had shoot arounds all. All back to back to backs. You remember that, right?
- [19:05]
Raja Bell
So, hey, listen, if you let me just say this, not to interrupt you. You want a. To check out on you go back to back to back shoot around, bro. He had co. We ain't listening to nothing. I ain't listening to nothing else you got to say.
- [19:20]
Logan Murdoch
I'm trying to go back to sleep, bro. Like, I just. I just came back from. I just came from LA to sack, bro. We got in late. I'm trying to go to the. I'm trying. What are you talking about? Why are we even here? Right, but you mentioned the bench, and I want to stay on that really quick before we go to the next segment. What you. From what you've seen from New York's bench, do you believe that at this point, if they continue this trajectory of whatever they're going, does that kind of quell your concern on the. The Brunson question, which is at the end of the season, we give him too much responsibility and he's pretty much our only offense, or at least our only point of offense in April. In June or April, May. Ish. Like where. I mean, I know there's. There's cat and there's bridges, but it, you know, the ecosystem is around Brunson at all times. Does that quell your concern at all?
- [20:19]
Raja Bell
I mean, yeah, a little bit, but no, they are a Jalen Brunson.
- [20:25]
Logan Murdoch
Yeah.
- [20:26]
Raja Bell
Like, that's what they are. You know, SGA is the straw that stirs the drink in. In, you know, Oklahoma City. There are teams that are built like that where if you're. Yeah, it would be great if Cat or OG or Jordan Clarkson or the rest of that or whoever can come in and win us games when Jalen Brunson is not playing great. But the reality is, if Jalen Brunson isn't playing great through stretches of time, the same way as SGA isn't playing great through extended stretches of time, it makes it exponentially harder for y' all to win games. So, yeah, I think the fact that you have more general playmakers and guys that can get a bucket on that second unit. It certainly helps and alleviates, you know, some of the pressure for him to have to do that night to night. But let's make no mistake like that. That's the way they play.
- [21:14]
Logan Murdoch
Yeah, we'll see what happens. The Knicks are fascinating. They will always be fascinating and I can't wait to talk about them more. And on the next segment, we're going to talk about one of me and Roger's favorite subjects, crash outs in the NBA. The Ringer NBA show is brought to you by FanDuel. Tis the season to be boosting on FanDuel because this year you're getting seven straight days of holiday rewards. Every day brings a new way to play, so keep checking in to see what drops next. And it all leads to the Christmas Day special where you can get something extra special. Seven days of gifts. One big finale. Head to FanDuel.com RingerMBA to get in the holiday spirit. Fish FanDuel play. Your game must be 21 years and older and present in select states and 18 and older and present in DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Opt in required bonus issued is non withdrawable profit boost tokens. Restrictions apply including any token expiration and max wager amount. See terms@sportsbook.fanduel.com Got a gambling problem? Call 1-800- Gambler or visit rg-help.com Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org and Connecticut this.
- [22:15]
Sponsor Voice
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- [23:21]
Logan Murdoch
Okay, we are back. We are here to talk about Dylan Brooks's week of crash outs most recently. And Raj has just seen the footage. So I'm very curious to see what he thinks about what happened last night where Steph Curry is trying to shoot a three and Dylan Brooks hit him in the. Hit him in the gut. And Curry later described the action as wild. It was on a three point shot he got. Dylan Brooks got called for a flagrant. Steph Curry called it bush league and wild he was. The warriors were down five. He just went to go shoot a three, he got hit, fell down. Dylan Brooks is reaction to this was hilarious though. He said, I thought he was going to run and try to get a rebound, so I tried to stop him, but I've been lifting too much, doing what other guys are doing and lift on a game day, bro. It's just, I don't know how to explain it. I just got to figure it out next game so I don't do anything to put our team in a bad spot, which is. This is good. You know, he's lifting weights, he's self reflective, very, you know, very measured from Dillon Brooks here. And this was a couple days after he got into it with LeBron, which I didn't really trip off the LeBron one as much. I just thought, you know, like, he got on LeBron's face. We kind of need a villain in the league. I think more and more though, Dylan is playing well this season. I think he's averaging like 20 a game. He's really like supplementing your offense. He's doing really well. I think he's really hooping. But this is the thing with Dylan Brooks is that the antics always overcome the hooping because he is legitimately, no matter what you say about his antics, a really good defender and a, a pretty decent offensive player. But this tends to happen with him. Raja, do you think this is a reputational outrage that we have on Dylan Brooks or do you think it's warranted based on what you just saw?
- [25:19]
Raja Bell
Yeah, like that. That's not a crazy foul. I mean, he. Did he need to do that? No. Like, was he, was he trying to hurt anybody? No, I mean it's just an antagonistic, like, foul, you know what I mean? Like, he, he clearly likes to be in that space, like, that does something for him, you know, emotionally. I, I don't know, like, there was no need to do it. It was just, you know, it wasn't like a thing where he tried to like break his leg or, or, or, or anything like that. He's just kind of chopped him across like the chest midsection. You know, I, I got mixed emotions on it. Like, Dylan, first of all, like, we're brand building here right now. Like, Dylan Brooks is never going to be a Steph Curry brand for the NBA or a LeBron brand for the NBA, you know, so like he's trying to carve out a lane or himself in some regard. Right? Like, kudos to him. And to your point, he's playing really, really good basketball. Like, he has continued to develop a skill set and he's doing more and more in terms of like his bag work and ability to score a bucket. But, but you know, that's kind of his lane is that antagonistic. You know, past gonna be in some dumb. And we're talking about him today, right? So like kind of a win for him, if we're being honest. Like, that's, but, but, but like some people's job on teams is to be that antagonist and like just be in some with everybody and, and you know, he relishes kind of that role. I like that role a little bit. Like I was, you know, you know, that's my job is to be out there. He's got more offensive responsibility than I did. But like, my job was to see if I could get however I could. Like your best player to be more worried about what I was doing than what they needed to do.
- [27:13]
Logan Murdoch
So a couple of things that come to mind. One, like, like Dylan Brooks is who he is. Like, it's fine. Like I, I, I, I have honestly evolved my thinking on Dylan Brooks from when he was with the Grizzlies versus what he is now. Because also fact of the matter is teams need this like, they don't need like the, you know, necessarily like the, the you up other players and getting flagrants and putting your team in jeopardy, which he, he did catching a flagrant that time in the game. And more than anything, it just wasn't a smart play, more than just being like a dirty play. But, but you do need somebody to kind of rev you up. And it like I feel like with Dylan and just I've been around him a little bit. I've seen him in Houston, I'm obviously seen him in Memphis, but for the most part it seems like it's a Persona that comes on, on the court because he's a relatively nice guy when you're, when he's off, he's very, you know, smart. When he talks like he's, he gives you time. You know, I'm only speaking this from a media member, but like, he, you know, he's a very. It seems like he's a very nice person, but when he comes on the, on the court, you could tell he's doing the antics, he's doing the stuff. He's like, yelling, he's, like, looking at people, like, trying to gain an edge, right? And that, that is what it is. The other, the other thing that comes to mind is, like, when you talk about the reputation and what it does for someone, whether it's fair or unfair. I, I think one of the things that he has to deal with on this stale is like, he has he. On one hand, he has to play with that edge, but also now that edge is being used against him when he is an important player for that team. Like, he's like the, he's the second best player on the Phoenix Suns right now, bar none. Like, anytime you watch them, he's doing really good, and he is a leader in that team. I don't know what the balance is for him at this point, because every little thing that he does, every, like, shouting match, anytime he tries to gain an edge, which by the way, he was doing against the Lakers, right, And was doing against Golden State, he can't, kind of, he. He can't pull back, right, because that's what makes him good. But I don't know what he does from, from here because he's going to continue to. Because now we're invested in him being, quote, unquote, a crash out. We're invested not only like, we are as like, viewers, but the Bleacher Report at alerts, right. Anytime Dylan Brooks does anything, it's right on our, on our phone. So I feel like the league and its apparatus invested in him being an asshole. What do you do when that on one hand is like, the league's perspective, and then you also have to be a basketball player that's effective for your team. And the way that you're effective is gaining an edge. How do you. I don't know how you navigate that.
- [30:02]
Raja Bell
Yeah, well, it's. It's pretty simple. Our, you know, I don't know that our employer would want to hear this or any other media outlet or any fan, but Dylan Brooks does not give a. Whether it comes up on your Bleacher Report feed or your Spotify. Like, he don't care. He hasn't turned in a random fan, thinks he's a crash out. Like he doesn't give a. So, like, that's how easy it is, right? Like you go out there and you do what you do. He's in character to your point, right? Like there is a WWE and a WWE in this to this, if this makes sense. Like he, he goes out, right, and he gets in that locker room and he shows up and he's got a job to do and he's got a Persona to be for his team and he flips into character and he goes to work and, you know, the, the balance is an interesting one to me, Logan, because I kind of talked about to be that guy. If you don't have otherworldly gifts, sometimes you have to go to a place that brings you very, very close to that line. And you will. The line will blur on you at times and you'll find yourself across that line. And you just hope that when you cross that line, it doesn't cost your team in a way that you become, you know, the villain to them because in their world, you're, you're not a villain. Like you, you are. You are their guy, you are their kind of backbone and you are their tone setter. And so as long as you're being mad for them, you're not a villain. Now if you cost them something that really means something to them by those actions, you could become a villain to them and to your fan base. But nobody in Phoenix is hating on Dylan Brooks.
- [31:36]
Logan Murdoch
No, I think he's. Honestly, I think he's endearing himself to Phoenix and specifically I think about Phoenix and what they're doing right now. I didn't think Phoenix was going to be this good at all. And they're. No doubt, they're well coached and they have dudes.
- [31:49]
Raja Bell
And I bet you, you know there's a portion of the Houston fan base that he's endeared himself to when he was there. Same with Memphis. Like, you don't like him when he's not on your team, but when he's on your team, he's yours.
- [32:00]
Logan Murdoch
Right?
- [32:00]
Raja Bell
And so you asked me about the crash outedness of it all. Nobody really cares, bro. Like, that's Dillon Brooks didn't turn into that yesterday. Like, Dylan Brooks has played this style of basketball with this level of back and forth and a, a just overall, you know, antagonism his whole life. That's who that's who he's been. So he's not really tripping off of that. Fans don't like it because he's into it with your favorite superstar. That's your problem. That's not a Dylan Brooks. You know, like, Dylan's fine. That's what he does.
- [32:31]
Logan Murdoch
What it's. I. When you said the thing about, though, like, where you want to. You want to endear yourself to the fan base and you don't want them to, like, turn against you, I think that's. I think that's what happened. And it kind of colored my thinking of Dylan Brooks early in his career, because that's what happened in Memphis, right? Like, he lost them, arguably, was one of the reasons why they lost that. That playoff series against the warriors, just because of his play. Fucking broke Gary Payton's arm, right? And he made some really dangerous plays, and it overshadowed how good he was that season. Particularly, you know, their record on and off when Ja was on and off the floor that season being so good is because of Dylan. Is in large part because of Dylan Brooks that season. But I think he has evolved now, and I think that, you know, we're. We're still.
- [33:27]
Raja Bell
Hold.
- [33:27]
Logan Murdoch
I think we are still holding that against him. Right? Like, I think in Houston, they loved him for that reason that you speak of, right? Especially because Houston at that time was like, us against the world. We're this young team. We don't give a. We're about to try to beat all of you guys, and you guys don't believe in us. And he kind of fed into that kind of same deal here in Phoenix. So I'm. I'm not tripping. It's funny, though. It was funny to see your reaction in the. In the break, though, when we were talking about when I was like, what happened with Dylan Brooks and you said this wasn't that bad. This. It's fine. Relax, guys.
- [33:58]
Raja Bell
Yeah, that was. I mean, listen, I. Full disclosure, I was flying all last night, so I didn't get to see the game live. Like, I saw some of the Pacers mixed, but yeah, dude, that's not like an egregious. Was it called for? No. Like, he did not need to do.
- [34:12]
Logan Murdoch
It was a dumb play. I think it was a dumb decision.
- [34:14]
Raja Bell
Yeah, it was stupid. And I. I. Listen, I would. I mean, I. I know you're more attached to Golden State than. Than I am, just as a, you know, as a media member and stuff like that. I. I'd be really interested if you pulled the Memphis Grizzly fan base on who Dylan Brooks was to then to hear if they found him to be the cost of a. Of a potential like championship run or. Overall the feedback was positive. I'd lean towards the second. I'd bet that more people in that fan base like really f with what he did there than blame him for not, you know, being able to win.
- [34:49]
Logan Murdoch
A championship in Memphis, especially as it relates to Golden State. Because they do not fuck with Golden State in Memphis. I tell you that right now. Yeah, man child. Dylan Brooks, there's another thing that I would like to bring to your attention. I'm not sure if you saw it over the week, but the NBA cup is. The league is considering moving the NBA cup final to Cameron Indoor Stadium next year in Durham, North Carolina to the site of Duke University because they have a year to year lease with the T Mobile Arena. Do you. I got three questions for you on this. Do you like the suggestion? What's the coolest place you've ever played a basketball game? And where would you want to see a basketball game played?
- [35:37]
Raja Bell
I mean, why Cameron Indoor Stadium?
- [35:41]
Logan Murdoch
See why? I don't. I think that this shows that the league is flailing at this point and they're just trying to find any type of interest for this. It doesn't make sense on the face when you talk about an terms of travel, right? Because like in terms of like for everyone involved, for the, the teams involved. Because Durham is just not a place you really go to, right. As an NBA team unless it's the preseason. Vegas is. Just say what you want about Vegas. Vegas is very easy to get to. It's one of the few places in America where you can get to Vegas from literally anywhere. And then like you want more just from a media standpoint. You want more media at your games. It's really hard to get to Durham, NC and like your fans to get to Dur. Yeah, North Carolina. But I guess they want everybody in front of the dookies, right? I don't, I don't know the suggestion, it doesn't really make sense to me. You know, Cliff likes it more than I do. But that's, that's my read on it. Just seems like the league is flailing and wants to do anything to get drum up interest for the NBA Cup. So I think that's.
- [36:44]
Raja Bell
Yeah, it's the first time I heard of it. Like initial reaction is that sounds stupid to me. I don't know. It holds 9,000 people. Like I don't, I don't know. I don't. Why Camera. Of all the I mean, it's a.
- [36:55]
Logan Murdoch
Look like people just have the crazies come to, like, root them on and, like, just have, like, a raucous ass environment. But they're not cheering for anything, right? Like, the yokis.
- [37:04]
Raja Bell
They're not incentivized to be as crazy as they normally are for, like, the NBA Cup. Like, I got. I don't know. I would have loved to have played in Cameron. It is a bucket list type of place for me. I'd still love to go see a game there at some point, but, like, having the NBA cup there, I don't know why that makes sense for the NBA Cup. Um, you know, as far as craziest places, coolest places I played, I think the. The coolest place I ever played was a preseason game. It was us against the Denver Nuggets. The Suns against the Denver Nuggets. And we played outdoors at. In Palm Springs, California, in one of those tennis venues.
- [37:45]
Logan Murdoch
What did you guys play where they play? The. What's the called? Damn it. It's the one.
- [37:51]
Raja Bell
Is it Indian Wells?
- [37:52]
Logan Murdoch
Indian Wells. Was that where Indian Wells was? Yep. Y. I'm.
- [37:54]
Raja Bell
I'm pretty sure. Don't quote me, but I think it was where Indian Wells was. And they laid a court out and it was beautiful. The day we got there, you know, vibes were high. And the next morning we went to shoot around and it was freezing. It was the worst basketball. It was. It was crazy. It was windy. It was cold. I don't know how.
- [38:13]
Logan Murdoch
Just like, we going to the Cup. Everything, every. Fuck the offense, we're going to the Cup.
- [38:17]
Raja Bell
It was awful, but super cool. Like, it was. It was. It was really cool. Some of my favorite places to play. College of Charleston, back in the day, when I. When I was in college, they were a rival at fiu. They had a stadium that, like, Sports Illustrated did, like, ranking college environments or college. Theirs was, like, in the mix with Cameron Indoor. The fans were, like, right on the baseline and right on the sideline. So it was a really, really cool place to play. They were always raucous. They were like a top 25 program. The pit in New Mexico, we played there.
- [38:54]
Logan Murdoch
Oh, yeah, I heard about the Pit. The Pit.
- [38:56]
Raja Bell
The Pit was, like, shaking. It would get so loud in that bad boy.
- [39:00]
Logan Murdoch
Isn't it one of those things where, like, it's not underground, but it's like one of those things underground. It's underground, yeah. It's built down and, like, the fans are, like, literally on top of you. Similar to Utah, but, like, just on Steroids. Because they're literally like. You know who else is like that? Vieja Serena in San Diego State. You know what I'm talking about? Where it's just like, you go all the way down. It's those red seats. It's really intimidating.
- [39:24]
Raja Bell
Yeah. This one was. They had. They had a cat named Charles Smith, and then they had Kenny. Forget what Kenny's name was. He played for the Rockets. Kenny Thomas, maybe. Kenny Thomas. So they were. They were good. It was a tough place to play. That building was crazy. And then I played in rup. Like, one of my first road trips as a freshman was. Was RUP Arena. They had. They were good, man. They weren't.
- [39:48]
Logan Murdoch
They, like, 23, 000. It's a lot of people going to Rup, right?
- [39:51]
Raja Bell
Listen, dogs. I had never. Bu. We played in a little gym. The teams that we had played up into that point were all, like, relatively. I mean, we played Providence, but that place wasn't rocking to come see bu. We got to damn Kentucky, and the sea of blue hit me. I don't. I. I don't know that I might. It was out of body experience for the whole three hours we were there, though. Like, I don't even remember playing in the game.
- [40:13]
Logan Murdoch
You was playing out of your body, huh? You just like, oh, yeah, it was crazy.
- [40:16]
Raja Bell
No, that was crazy. Those were three. Trying to think of anywhere else that I. That I got to go. I mean, we played. Played in Chrysler or whatever. Michigan's what. We played in some pretty cool places, but those three were probably the best.
- [40:28]
Logan Murdoch
That's what's up. I. Every time I think of, like, what's the best place I've watched a basketball game. It's like, typically a basketball arena, and I feel, like, weird about that because, I mean, like, I want to, like, have something like, oh, but you know what a cool one was. I got to go to. I got to go to UCLA and watch their runs. And that was fucking crazy because I'm not gonna say the players and I'm not gonna say that because I don't want to, like, you know, out myself on that. But, like, I. You see, like, player X that you watch in an LA fitness type of environment, and you realize how much better they are than, like, the average immortal, especially when they're playing against, like, other professionals. It's one like, there was a. I don't know if you saw this. There was a clip that was, like, circulating your social media where you see Quinn Cook going to la finish out Quinn Cook. I covered him a couple Years. He's a good dude, but like he's going up against like normal people, right? And he's just like, just with him, like he'll cross them over and like hit a jump shot. But it's, it's one thing to like see like the disparity in talent, but when everybody is good running pickup, it's different. I, I, it was just like, you see the athleticism up front and that was, and I got to sit on a baseline. It was super cool. I got to see one of your favorite players, Raja, and I'll just leave it at that. One of your all time favorite players that you always bring up on this podcast. I got to see him play and he was, he's insane on television already. But to see him in a like LA fitness type setting. Not, it wasn't LA fitness, it was UCLA's like, gym. That's a famous type of pickup run. But to see him just like, just dunk on people talking shit. And it was the first time when I saw this person, like you see the Persona of this person and then you see like how he is around normal people that he with, and you were like, oh, okay. Like, he's actually like, I see why people actually like rock with him. And so that was really cool to go watch them play at UCLA and like a center was away from an arena because you really appreciate NBA players or professionals when you see them in like relatively normal settings do really crazy, abnormal. That was cool.
- [42:34]
Raja Bell
No doubt, no doubt. I will throw, I will throw one more. I did not like playing in this place, but because I grew up as a Big east basketball fan and you know, I watched so many games. We played mellow in the Carrier Dome. I think the Suns we played, we played mellow in a preseason game we played up there. I think AI was on the team too, so we played them in the Carrier. That was crazy.
- [42:57]
Logan Murdoch
Was it like a hundred thousand people or 80,000 people there? Did they all.
- [43:00]
Raja Bell
No, no, because like, I mean, they don't show out like that for preseason NBA. So it wasn't like a rocking, rocking. I mean it, it was pretty packed, but I don't think it was one of their larger crowds, but just that, that, that, that venue, the way they set it up, you know, the way they chop it. I never shot well in places like that, so I didn't love it.
- [43:16]
Logan Murdoch
What's the depth perception on a, on a, on a arena like that?
- [43:20]
Raja Bell
Listen, dog, the only other experience I had was playing in the Alamo Dome, trying to make the spurs team and we went out there, I. I knew I probably wasn't getting into any of those games, like, but. But it didn't matter because if I did, I wasn't making a shot in there.
- [43:33]
Logan Murdoch
I was. I already knew that. It's weird about the burritos, bro, because like, Houston's like that because I remember whenever I go to Toyota center, like, you really gotta like, look because they have like a crazy backdrop of seats. So the, the weirdly the rim looks like further than it actually is. So sometimes you gotta like, you feel I've shot at Toyota center and you feel like you got to just like throw that thing all the way to the backboard and hopefully that goes in and maybe it's a switch, but it's just weird like that. Did you ask, did you see where you want to see a game played? Where do you want to see a game played? Yeah, you've kind of been all over the world.
- [44:08]
Raja Bell
Yeah, I'd love to see one in Cameron. I'd like to go to one of those big like Euroleague games. Like one of. One of those.
- [44:15]
Logan Murdoch
I was just going to say that. Like Real Madrid or against like Barca or something like that.
- [44:19]
Raja Bell
Yeah, yeah, I want to go see one of those. I don't know, man. There are a few arenas like I'd like to. I'd like to see some of the newer, you know, NBA arenas that I haven't seen. You know that. That'd be dope. I'd like to see what. Who's got the newer one Sack though. I'd like to see Golden States. Yeah, the club, the. The Clippers new spot. What is it?
- [44:39]
Logan Murdoch
Into it, into it and probably gonna be the cheapest arena in the. In the league. Cheapest ticket. It's probably like.
- [44:47]
Raja Bell
But most, you know me, most. Most of my venues are football. Like I want to see. I like to see football game. Most of my dream, like spectating experience would. Would be college football games.
- [44:57]
Logan Murdoch
Well, hey, hey, your boy is going to go to the. Is going to be in the sec, so maybe.
- [45:00]
Raja Bell
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [45:01]
Logan Murdoch
Go to. Go to watch a game at lsu, something like that.
- [45:04]
Raja Bell
Been to one already, but yeah, that's a place that's.
- [45:05]
Logan Murdoch
Was that crazy? Was that crazy? That probably was nuts.
- [45:08]
Raja Bell
LSU was nuts, man. That's. It's a hundred and some thousand outside. But outside that would never go in because they're just tailgating and then on did in some inside. It's crazy.
- [45:17]
Logan Murdoch
You know, Cliff just put a great idea in the chat. Knicks and Nets at the Rucker he's. That would never happen. Logistically, that could literally never happen.
- [45:29]
Raja Bell
But preseason vibes.
- [45:32]
Logan Murdoch
Yeah. Or like maybe like NBA street, you know, maybe something like that. Leave that in the past. Let's take a quick break and we are going to get to Real one of the week.
- [45:43]
Raja Bell
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- [46:13]
Logan Murdoch
We are back. Roger's Googling. Because this is always a pop quiz, even though we've been doing this for almost six years. And every Friday we do ruin of the week. I'll start it off this. My ruin of the week is going to go to one Alonzo Carter, friend of the show. He has been brought up a lot on this show. He coined the phrase get your feelings out the shit. He is now the head coach of Sacramento State football. He was an assistant at Arizona, the head assistant. And he took a job at Sacramento State. And I went to the press conference yesterday, Raja, and it was a sight to behold. I would have flew you out myself to watch this. This one. He had a 30 minute monologue and everybody was there. He talked about. He talked about how everybody is put on notice throughout the whole conference. He's coming for everybody's recruit, how he's going to make Sacramento State the USC of his. Of. Of where he's at. He's going to make it a national program. He said he's going to every nook and cranny of America. He talked about. He cut the President off when the President said he was from Oakland. He said, I'm from West Oakland, get it straight. I'm like, oh. The entire Oakland contingency was in this small press conference room. It was so funny because he brought everybody out and everybody, you know, when somebody from the town come in, we're going to make this spot our own. So there was a delegated section for media. No, we sat up in that shit. We all sat up in there. It was hella funny because. Shout out Coach Terry from college because they asked for members of the media to raise their hand for if they had a question. And he raised his hand to ask Coach Carter a question about mental health. And it threw Coach Carter like, like you're not a video member. You're one of the contingency of the people that came with me. What are we doing? But it was hilarious. Coach Zo is about to be. I don't know what's going to happen, but it's going to be entertaining as hell. Raja, somehow we're going to have to bring you to a game. He brought, he's, he's, he's commissioning everybody from Marshawn and Marcus Peters to Ryan Coogler to take their ass on the sideline. We might need Roger Belden to help out with a recruiting visit. But anyway, Coach Carter is my real one of the week.
- [48:39]
Raja Bell
That was Coach Carter repping Piedmont to the fullest dog. Piedmont's finest.
- [48:45]
Logan Murdoch
Roger, that's not funny, bro. That's not funny.
- [48:48]
Raja Bell
That's really not funny. Come on.
- [48:50]
Logan Murdoch
Come. No, no, that's not, that's not, that's.
- [48:53]
Raja Bell
No, that's, that's all, that's awesome though. Like all jokes aside. No, it is pretty cool. You know my room, I'll keep, I'll keep it. I'll keep your college football with you like real. One of the week is going to go to the newly minted Heisman winner. Fernando Mendoza, who is from Miami is a 305 Christopher Columbus High School. Yeah, you know, I'm tapped into high school football and I knew he was a, a good player in high school but like most of the college coaches that weren't super interested in him coming out, I did not know how good he was. And he's got a really cool story. Not. And I, it resonates with me because I had a very similar story coming out. Like not many people believed in him. Not many people gave him the opportunity that he wanted, but he took the one that he had and he just kept grinding and believing and making the most of it. And I thought his message was important which was to keep working. You can do it like keep working and keep believing into in yourself until you find someone who believes in you and gives you that opportunity. He did that. He made the most of it. About to be the probably first pick in the NFL draft. Good luck to him in the, in the college football playoffs. But 305 zone. Fernando Mendoza, Heisman real one.
- [50:08]
Logan Murdoch
Is he going to look good in silver and black? Yeah.
- [50:12]
Raja Bell
I mean, listen, I, I, I don't. Is it, does anyone look good in silver and black now? I don't know.
- [50:18]
Logan Murdoch
I think, I think, I think everyone aesthetically looks great in silver and black. Team look good. It's all we have Right now is great colors, but I mean, you know, I'm on the fence. We probably, honestly, we probably should go get a lineman. Dude, we should trade down and get a lineman because we would put him in a body bag if he goes back on our own line right now. Also, another real one real quick. Nicola Jokic, who became at age 30, the all time assist leader among sinners. He got that at 30. He broke Kareem Abdul Jabar's record. For context, Kareem Abdul Jabbar played till he was 41 and it took half the time for Jokic to get that record. Cyborg, shout out to Nicole Yokin, shout out to all the real ones worldwide. Man ruins my back@gmail.com realms my back@gmail.com realmsmill bag@gmail.com I'm stalling because Roger's gonna get mad at me because he has to go go on a roller coaster. And he's getting madder by the second right now.
- [51:19]
Raja Bell
You're good, bro. I mean, we could keep it rolling, just have Kaya come in his back, but she could be jumping on the beds. Like, as long as the listeners are good with that, we're straight.
- [51:27]
Logan Murdoch
It's okay. My knees good. It's fine. It's fine. She's fine. You know what I mean? It's all good. It'd be good to see her. She's probably might be the only one that hasn't been on the podcast in some shape or form. We had Ty Bell on the podcast when Steph Curry was here. He didn't want to say nothing, but it was cool.
- [51:40]
Raja Bell
He was so Ty Bell. Look, quick story. Ty bell was 42 points away from a thousand career points in high school for his last home game before we came to Vegas. He told me, yeah, I'm gonna get it. I'm like, there's no fucking way you're getting it. And started off pretty slow and then had 36 with two and a half minutes to go in the game. And I thought he was gonna get it. And his coach, his coach kind of shut him down, which I appreciated because, like, at that point the game was kind of out of hand. And I didn't want him looking like an A hole chasing the thousand. But, like, it's pretty cool. So he's about to hit a thousand points. If he scores six tomorrow or tonight, he's got a thousand career points, dog. Early in the sophomore season. So pretty cool.
- [52:25]
Logan Murdoch
He's. Sorry, Cliff. He's not going to Temple, bro. It's not happening. I'm sorry. He's. He's. He's not. I hope he comes to the West Coast. That would be cool, just for my. Just selfishly, I'm trying to watch him play. I don't know if Raja wants that to happen, but it's cool.
- [52:38]
Raja Bell
Anyways, I'm down with whatever.
- [52:41]
Logan Murdoch
Okay. Okay. Shout out. Let's go. Let's get it. Let's get a. I got. I'm gonna tell you this story offline. See you guys Tuesday. Me and Howard. Brother Beck. Happy holidays. Have a good primer to your holidays. We'll see you next week. Tap in all the shits. Bye. Must be 21 years and older and present in select states. For Kansas and affiliation with the Kansas Star Casino. For 18 and older and present in DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rghelp.com, call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org backslash chatincenetic or visit MDG. In Maryland, Hope is here. Visit gambling helplinema.org or call 1-800-327-5050. For 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text HOPE NY in New York.