Justin Barrier (3:51)

I kind of think it depends on how you look at it because on the one hand, I think these type of trades are typically done with massive amounts of picks going one way, right? That's what happened with the Paul George trade. It's happened with the Anthony Davis trade, frankly, going to the Lakers from the Pelicans. That's just the precedent. When you trade a star player, the other team is just getting a bundle of future draft assets to hopefully rebuild for the future. The Mavericks did the interesting thing here, not only just doing this under the COVID of darkness, not only doing this in the middle of a season where both teams are fairly competitive in the title race in the Western Conference, or at the very least in the Western Conference finals race. But they went the route of just getting the burden of hand with Anthony Davis. And like, I mean, he definitely is on a different timeline than. Than you. The teams that are typically trading stars get back. But the Mavs are kind of built for now anyway. And so I look at the Mavs and I say, like, they just picked up a top 10 player for Doncic, still in the prime of his career. There's a lot to figure out here. But I would say in terms of price, it's different. But I wouldn't say necessarily that it's bad. If anything, I would rather have Anthony Davis, if I'm trying to compete now than I would a bunch of picks down the road where I don't know what I'm going to get.

Logan Murdoch (5:07)

Yeah, that, that sounds really conventional. Like if you're trading, you know, for Anthony Davis, but when you put, when you have Luka Donches going out the other way, it's kind of hard to, you know, make that, it's kind of hard to make that point. Right. Like, like here's. This is something that, that Nico Harrison told espn. He told David Miniman this. He says, I believe that defense wins championships. I believe that getting an all defensive center and an all defensive player with a defensive mind to set gives us a better chance. We're built to win now and in the future. That doesn't make any sense to me. I get the fact that you want to play, you want to play defense and you want to do all these things. But Anthony Davis, if you've looked at him throughout the entirety of his career, he's probably a number two type player. If you just, if you want to put it down there like that, right. You've seen what he has been with the Lakers. He's been up until maybe two years ago, he's been a very injury prone guy. You see his contract and you're like, I don't know if I want to. When he signed that deal a few years ago, you were like, ah, I don't, I don't know how he's going to be and how the Lakers are going to be. That's why that 2029 pick was so important, just for longevity. But now that you go and for the Lakers, I feel like this is the steal, not necessarily for this season, although we get to see LeBron and Luka, which is something I don't think we ever thought we would ever see outside of an All Star Game. But you get Luka Doncic in the prime of his career and now you can. Now players want to go to Los Angeles and go play with Luka and it makes maybe not right now Lakers of power, but I can definitely see them being something in the next few years. And in the meantime, oh, we get to see LeBron and Luka play with each other. I feel like that's good. And then you look on the maverick side where you see Anthony Davis, who, all the things that I described, you pair him with Kyrie Irving, who has always been a great number two gunner. I don't think that this necessarily puts you in the championship conversation, considering the fact that you just had this team with Luca as present, go to the NBA Finals eight months ago. I just don't like. I don't see why you would do something like this if you're the Dallas Mavericks under any circumstances when you have a generational talent walking out of your door. That's crazy.

Justin Barrier (7:10)

Yeah. So it's almost two separate conversations here. We should probably take the Luca part of this first with the Lakers, I have to imagine, even though there are reports that Luca didn't request formerly a trade from Mark Stein and other reporters who are plugged into the situation, that something happened behind the scenes to suggest that Luca either wanted out or there was discord between the Mavericks and Luka Doncic. Maybe he's been out for what, probably over a month at this point. Maybe there was some just strife over how long he was out. The fact that he hasn't at this point come into a season like super plugged in in terms of being. Being like in the best shape possible. He keeps getting these dings and dents. That's really kind of stalled the MVP season that we've all been waiting for, frankly, for about four years at this point. So we don't know that as we're recording this 10pm Pacific time, like I said right after this date gone awry for me. And so we. There has to be another piece of the pie here. And so I wonder what's happening there. I think it's. I. I'll be honest. I. I would do this deal on both sides of this, assuming that Luca wanted to get to the Lakers. Has suggested that he wanted to get there, was going to get there. He has two more years on his deal still left. One of them is a player option. So he could have been a free agent is as recently as the summer, as I want to say 20, 26. Yeah, so, but, but like, but yeah.

Logan Murdoch (8:39)

But to that point with his contract though, right? Like, we've seen this time and time again with stars. I mean, we saw with Kobe when he was having a player option way back in the day, right? Where you have a guy that is disgruntled, but he is the face of your franchise. It would seem that even if you saw that there was strife with somebody that talent level, you could have at least bought some time for yourself and say, like, hey, can we work this out?

Justin Barrier (9:02)

But open the bidding up to.

Logan Murdoch (9:03)

Open the bidding up to more teams, see what's going on, make this a bit more public. This thing happened in the dead of night, clearly, because we're talking about it. But like, I. And then you trade them to a Western Conference team that you're. They're gonna have to play them twice this year again. Still, there's. They're playing. I think the Lakers and the Mavs are playing in LA February 25th, and then they go plaque to Dallas April 9th. So the Lakers could be in the midst of like a late season run playing in Dallas as Luke is return, which is going to be one of the wildest player returns I think we've ever had, considering it's going to be. You know, anything could happen. But they. The Lakers could be on a run at. By that point and they could be competing for postseason and not. Not to mention, these teams could also theoretically play in the postseason this year, which would be nuts.

Justin Barrier (9:52)

Yeah, I know this is named for LeBron James as well, who is now in line to be Luka's teammate, which it always seems like there had been a bit of a fondness between the two of them. I think there had always been kind of whispers that Luka wanted to eventually get to LA or that LeBron, when he was flirting with the idea of going somewhere else where I don't know how seriously he ever took it. Like, there was always that, like, oh, he might join Kyrie in Dallas with Luca, because he likes both of those guys as opposed to those guys joining him in LA. Yeah. But like, at the. I mean, he's 40 years old at this point. He really doesn't have much of a run to go. At the very least. This just makes things confusing for the immediate for the Lakers. I mean, Luke is literally not even playing. I would assume at this point they're. They'll probably just try to make do with this season and go from there. I think for the Lakers side of this, this is more about the future of the Lakers than it is for the present with LeBron. If I'm LeBron, like, I'm kind of like, what the hell is going on here? You just traded my probably best friend, teammate that I've had throughout my career outside of maybe Dwyane Wade. Like, are we in for LeBron James potentially wanting out after this? So there's a ton of questions as a result of this.

Logan Murdoch (11:03)

I'm curious on the LeBron angle. Right. Because we all know LeBron as like the showman number one. He's the greatest player of his generation, and we've always kind of wanted him to. You know, we, me and Roger talk about this on real Ones all the time. Like, we always wanted, in a perfect scenario, Anthony Davis to take the mantle as the number one option on the Lakers, right? Like that didn't take the baton, right? And LeBron has always talked about, you know, Anthony Davis taking the baton back in his Cleveland days, Kyrie taking the baton. But, like, I don't always think he never surrounded his player so with the player that could actually do it. And a lot of that has to do with the fact that he's LeBron James. And now he has Luka, who was de facto number one, because let's be real, at this stage of his career, both of their careers, Luka is a better player. Let's not get it twisted. How will LeBron deal with the fact that he is a number two? And not only is he a number two in this scenario, in terms of talent, he had a whole plan of at some point retiring in the Lakers jersey and all the glory that comes with that, right? You put a Luka Doncis in there, it's like, all right, bet by LeBron. We got to go get these. We got to go get these titles now, right? It's a. It's a different type of two timeline thing. That's what I'm thinking. Like, it's going to be a bit of an, I would think, an identity crisis for a guy like LeBron James, who loves the theater of the game, but also loves the mythology of himself. And now you kind of throw this big super duper star wrench into it. That's going to be a fascinating thing to watch, because he is somebody that always wants to be in control of his own narrative. And this is the. This might be the biggest test. And I'm not saying this hyperbole. This might be the biggest test of his career or one of them, at least in this late stage of just having that type of identity crisis.

Justin Barrier (12:45)

How about this? Who's playing center for the Los Angeles Lakers after this trade? Because right now, LeBron James. It's basically LeBron James. They started Jackson Hayes tonight against the Knicks, a game that they won without Anthony Davis. We should know LeBron always plays well in Madison's Square Garden. He has a lot of history there, and we all know that story. But other than Hayes, there really isn't a center that you would really trust in a high leverage situation on this.

Logan Murdoch (13:13)

There's. Which also makes it really another reason why it's a savvy deal for the Lakers. Like, they still got, what, a few more days till the trade deadline? Like, they can still Go make a move and get a center, albeit it's not. Might not be an elite center, but they can go get a functioning NBA center by then. I don't know if that. That's not going to put them over the top, but, like, another reason to get this done on February 1st, which is another reason why this is nuts. This is just nuts.

Justin Barrier (13:37)

Yeah. Yeah. The trade deadlines on Thursday, so that's on the sixth. So they have five days to figure things out from here. I just have to imagine that the Lakers saw an opportunity to get into the Luka Doncha business, Luka Doncic business as soon as possible, and they just took it bird in hand, and then decided to figure everything out later, including LeBron James, like, what his future is with the organization, whether or not he's even going to appreciate this sort of move. Because, as Dave McMiddman reported for ESPN on Twitter, that, like, LeBron apparently was still reeling from this when he talked to him. He was at dinner. He found out like everybody else from this. And so that domino still has to fall. I think it's pretty telling that Anthony Davis, before this all happened last week, at some point, did a very public kind of show of power in that theater set up with Shamsrania. Basically, like, oh, they need to trade for a center. I would prefer it if I. I played power forward. You should play next to a center. I wonder if that comes into play where they're just kind of like, they're done with the clutch LeBron A. Yep. And they're just like, let's turn the page.

Logan Murdoch (14:46)

But.

Justin Barrier (14:46)

But I will say this, like, going from clutch, like, ruling things to now, Luca Lucas, a different animal, but he still had a lot of control. And I'm from. Based on what people say behind the scenes, like, part of the issue with Luca is, like, he wields so much power that you really couldn't say anything to him in Dallas. So it's almost like you just shop. You're swapping one issue for another one in that regard.

Logan Murdoch (15:09)

Well, I got a couple things on this, and I'm glad you brought the klutch angle on this, because there have been good and bad things about the influence of clutch. The good thing is, like, you know, you brought LeBron James to Los Angeles and you had to kind of like, bear the brunt of that. But the other part of the exertion of control is just like, you didn't have to pay AD when you did. You know what I mean? You didn't have to give them that Big deal. But you also had to, because you had to satisfy the clutch of all of this, right? But I think one other thing that you see and you've seen throughout this time with LeBron in Los Angeles is the Lakers and maybe the Knicks, probably the Heat because he dealt with this, are like the only franchises that really just match LeBron's energy in terms of influence. Like, LeBron, for every other franchise can be like, I'm LeBron. What are you going to do? The Lakers are like, well, we're the Lakers. So, you know, like we. Okay, like, you are one of 20 great players in our. In our whole ecosystem that we've had since we've been in inception, right? And you are trying to build on our legacy. Like, it's fine if whatever you do you. Like, I don't even think LeBron is like a top 20 beloved Laker at this point, right? Like, I don't even think he's there. I think the same thing is going to happen with Luka where he's coming into this ecosystem that is not Dallas. Right. Like the Lakers are. You have to prove to us that you are worthy of being in this immortality. Right? Like, that's the propaganda that they use. So I think while Luca will exert some level of influence, like, he's still for that fan base. And you lived in Los Angeles, like, for that fan base in that city, you're going to have to do more than exert power because LeBron's been doing it for however many years. And I don't think the Los Angeles is still like, come around to him all the way fully. You got to win titles, and that's the most important thing.

Justin Barrier (17:04)

Yeah, the Lakers legacy practically since Kobe left as a player has been pretty muddled because they went underwent, like one of the biggest tanking, like, stealth tanking jobs in like, recent NBA history. Not just for the franchise itself, which hadn't previously gone through that sort of run of. Of not winning as many games and basically being at the top of the lottery year in and year and year out. I believe they had the second pick overall three years in a row. It just, it. They went to LeBron in part to save what they couldn't themselves. And so they turned things over to LeBron for a reason. And LeBron curiously, has stayed around longer than he ever has with a different franchise. I think part of that is just he likes being in la. He clearly has roots there. His family has roots there. Now his kids have both gone, both of his sons gone to Sierra Canyon and played and obviously he has production companies and all that. And you're starting to see the signs of the sort of clashes that happened on his way out of Cleveland and in Miami. But if anything, I wonder if it's almost compounded by the fact that he's gone past the years that he ever went with those franchises. And so maybe that's been mounting over time. I think you're right though. I think like Jeannie, who, who has been with the franchise practically, God, decades and decades at this point, probably sees it as like her father's franchise sees, knows the past of it, wants to reclaim that, wants to recreate, reclaim like sort of power within the structure, but at the same time, like it's just not how the NBA works, you know.

Logan Murdoch (18:45)

Like anymore more than ever.

Justin Barrier (18:47)

Yeah. Like franchise players sort of run franchise in a way that they didn't before. Yeah.

Logan Murdoch (18:53)

And another thing, like the Lakers, for all the glory and you know, and just like what they are, they're still like a family run business. It's. It hasn't been taken over like by venture capitalists or just like this new money, these oligarch money that we're seeing influx into NBA teams. Right. And I gotta wonder like, that's why they, you know, they, they got a LeBron. But like, I feel like in that regard Luka has provided them a lifeline in the things that they want to do. Right. They want to get players to attract other players.

Justin Barrier (19:26)

Right.

Logan Murdoch (19:26)

That's just the Laker way. So I do wonder. I mean, the Mavericks gave them such a gift because they were so. This team was really dreading the fact that LeBron was about to retire and they were going to be stuck with AD which is like a real thing, which is why I think they were so. It seems wild, but like they were so ready to just give him up, you know, at the first sign of like a big somebody dangled in there. Right. And like Luca is the perfect person to be able to take this franchise into the next era. And maybe, and I'm obviously this is not any insider information, but maybe like save what the ownership is right now. Right. Because now like Jeannie is overseeing the team with Luka Doncic as opposed to going through another rebuild and you know, playing with some version of like what Nick Young was in 2014 as your top player. Right. Like, they didn't want that. This is real big lifeline, I think, in ways that we can't even see fully right now within that organization.

Justin Barrier (20:33)

Yeah. The Lakers have just everything to figure out from here and So I have to imagine they just got Luka and they decided we got him. We. I have to assume he's going to resign when his contract comes up and we're going to figure out what happened.

Logan Murdoch (20:47)

With LeBron, which is exactly what happened with LeBron in 2018. We're really. We really don't know what they're doing, but we got LeBron, so we'll figure.

Justin Barrier (20:54)

It out a hundred percent. I think it's a really good comp. The difference being that they just had a bunch of those second round, those number two picks just stacked up in order to trade them for Anthony Davis. And even then it was Anthony Davis and LeBron and they figured everything out from there. This is going to be Luka LeBron, if he decides to stick around. LeBron as a player option for next year. We should mention that seems like a. Just a giant domino that we need to figure out before the trade deadline. But then it's like Austin Reaves, you know, they didn't give up a lot of picks. There's. There's so much to figure out from the Lakers side of things.

Logan Murdoch (21:22)

But, like, does LeBron for a trade, though? Like, I don't know. Like, does LeBron ask for a trade? I don't. I don't think so. I really don't think he would want to uproot like that. But also like, again, he's processing this with still a few more days to the trade deadline. Does he like, say, hey, man, and then do the Lakers be like, you know what? That's dope. Thank you for doing that. So we'd have to take that. We could just take this salary off our books already and then we can just get this built, this rebuild around Luca asap.

Justin Barrier (21:49)

I mean, Steph Curry needs a running mate. Who better than to finish out this run and don't trade for Jimmy, trade for LeBron James. I mean, we've all kind of been silently doing fan fiction about that ever since the team USA run. Like that seems legitimately in this in play right now, but I guess we got to wait to see how LeBron feels about this. I'll say this for the Mavericks, though. I think it. There are definitely things to figure out with the Mavs. They got a lot of talent on that roster. I think Kyrie Irvin's health is definitely a red flag. Apparently he has a bulging disc that he's been playing through this year, and he's getting older and so we'll see. And like, you went from a team where there's two Just dominant, like, historically dominant ball handlers, just feeding the rest of the roster. And now you're down to one in Spencer Dinwiddie. I gotta say, man, not only did they get Anthony Davis in this trade, but they got Max Christie. Like, this team is incredibly deep right now. And so if all parties are healthy and engaged in this, and we'll see about Anthony Davis's level of engagement, kind of like the Mavericks right now, just for this season, maybe. I don't know if it's Luka, Doncic, Price, but, like, Mavericks are pretty interesting. What do you think about them?

Logan Murdoch (23:02)

I do think they're interesting. I do think. Think they're deep on paper. I just. I don't know if Kyrie and AD are the ones to be able to take this team to where they. I don't like. I don't believe Nico Harrison's statement that, like, this is it. We're doing this for titles. That doesn't make any sense considering the fact that they, with this roster, they had a chance to win a title eight months ago. You know what I mean? Like, I don't. And we've seen a lot of AD to know kind of what he is in postseason now. He had a great postseason in 2020, but he gets injured. Like, it's something that. And he has always been a number two in this regard. You were expecting him, once again, to be a number one type player because on paper, he is better than Kyrie. I don't. I don't expect him to do that necessarily. I've seen enough of him to not expect that. Now, Kyrie is a really great player, but we've seen him and what he has done and the type of success that he has had along certain types of guys. Now, he's been great when he was alongside LeBron, right? He was good in spurts. Got injured in Boston, but that scene was stacked already. Brooklyn, you kind of saw where, like, you know, if he was going to be 1A, 1B, that was kind of his audition. And we saw what happened with that, right? And he was a great number two to Kyrie. I mean, to Luka. I don't see him like, if Those two guys, AD and Kyrie are your 1A, 1B, I don't think that your ceiling is a title. I just don't. I don't think that. I can't. I can't think that.

Justin Barrier (24:33)

I think it depends on how the Mavs look at Anthony Davis. If they're just saying, like, we lost Derek Lively for a bit of a Run here. You're just going to work in a center rotation with Daniel Gafford. You'll obviously start, but we're going to be the Mavs that we've always been. Just with Anthony Davis. I don't think that would behoove them, because I think Anthony Davis is just way too good for that sort of setup. And then you get into all the sort of complications of, like, what can they actually put in on the fly? Like, can they really just completely change the face of the franchise in the midst of the season in February? It seems unlikely at best. But the one thing I will say is Anthony Davis has been due to be a featured player for a very long time now, and part of that is his issue. I obviously covered him in New Orleans, and I thought it behooved him, honestly, to go be under LeBron's wing just to be the best talent on the team, but not necessarily be the most important player, because I don't think he's, like, a very loud leader type. I think he's. He's the guy you want as a number two, but, like, talent wise, he's. He's incredible. Like, he's been better than ever.

Logan Murdoch (25:41)

That's been the AD conundrum for his whole career. Right? Like, I feel like his whole career has been waiting for him to be a number one, and he never really did it right. Like, I think that. Or ev. If you go back to. And I know you worked at the Worldwide Leader, like, when I was. When I was in college, it was literally every preseason. Is this the year that AD is going to win an mvp? And every time in spring, he ain't even close, or maybe even was close in some years, but, you know, like, it was a recurring thing every single year. And I feel like that's just the. And maybe this is Raja just influencing me because it's literally what he says every time I try to pay AD a compliment. But I feel like he. He's at this point, what is he, 32 years old at that point? He's kind of is who he is right now. Like, he's going to give you that random like, 43 and 23 and, like, look like Wilt for a night against Charlotte, right? And he's like, he did two years ago against the Wizards, but he's also going to disappear for some games that you. In, games where you need your franchise guy. And then we saw last year in the Finals, like, at the biggest stage, Kyrie kind of fall off a cliff, right? Like, that's. That's what we're, that's what we're trusting to, to get your team deep into the postseason. Like, that's why I'm not. I got to see it. I can't. I can't trust that they're going to be really good.

Justin Barrier (26:57)

Yeah. I'll say this for A.D. i think the past two seasons he's been healthier than perhaps people have been willing to give him credit. Like last season, 76 games. He gets still gets dinged every now and then, but I almost feel like he's taken it personally the past few seasons. Almost play through a lot of the things earlier in his career he probably didn't. And so he has been more available. The issue is that he just doesn't have the requisite help in order to fill in the gaps and maybe take a little bit more off of his plate. In, in LA the past two seasons, he's basically been the defense the entire time. Like, it's basically poor defenders one through four and he's cleaning up everything to the point where he's been in the playoffs the past two years. Just seems like he's the last hope with everything. Yeah, he's just been run down and.

Logan Murdoch (27:45)

And not only is he tired, it's, it's, hey, you know you gonna play tonight, you gonna play Jokic in altitude, Right?

Justin Barrier (27:51)

Right. And the one thing that the Mavs have going for them is they are pretty deep and pretty deep in the front court. I think it's a open question of how they're going to play him. I wonder if the Mavs will want to do him a solid and play him more at 4 than he has been in the past. Almost like a nod to that interview with Sean's where it's like, oh, I want to play the four I want to play for. Maybe they'll give him that opportunity, which I don't think would be in his benefit because PGA Washington is honestly like the perfect for to play next to him. But if he buys in, says, I am the center here, not only do I have stretch players all around the floor, P.J. washington, Najee Marshall, Max Christie, Klay Thompson, Kyrie Irving to set me up, I have the perfect context. Just make like my game and enhance it. You also have Daniel Gafford coming off the bench, one of the best backup centers in the league, to spell you. So you only have to play 30 minutes, not 40 minutes in these random games just to to to win a game in February. And when Derek Lively comes back, he's also awesome. I doubt they'll trade one of those guys before the trade deadline just because Lively's hurt. So you need to back up. And so I don't know. This. This is shaping up the Mavs to be, like, the perfect team for AD to be that guy. Is he that guy? I'm not sure, but I honestly can't wait to see him in this different context with all.

Logan Murdoch (29:09)

Everything that you said which was correct. Did they. Do they beat. Like, do they beat okc? Do they beat. Do they. Do they get to the. Do they get to the Finals?

Justin Barrier (29:18)

Well, apparently the Mavs can be OKC without virtually anybody on the roster because they beat them three times this year, which is PJ Washington running them over. Well, I do think that that's one thing you should talk about to your question. No, I don't think they would be okc, if only because, like, these sort of teams that build on the fly, like, we haven't really seen anything like that really come together. I think Brooklyn, when they brought in Harden, was the only sort of. And like, that team was very, very good. The problem was that they were always injured and they couldn't get those guys in the court at the same time.

Logan Murdoch (29:48)

Like, like, you go for. I mean, you could probably end up going like, Lakers centric on here. But, like, when Powell came in 08, like, that was seamless and went to the Finals, I don't. Is there another guy of that. You know, like another guy that seamlessly fit that. That well since mid season, by the way, like, we're talking about mid season.

Justin Barrier (30:06)

Yeah, I mean, Siakam obviously helped bring the Pacers to the Eastern Conference finals last year, but, like, the. Was ravaged by injuries, so that's a little bit of a misnomer there. I'll say this with. With the Mavs, the one thing they do they had and now they have an abundance is size. And you look at a team like okc, they're still not as big and not as tough as I think a lot of people want them to be, and maybe Denver, but that's really it. And so they do have kind of a counter move. So a lot of the teams that are populating the west, and the one thing I'll say about the west is like, I assume OKC will get to the Western Conference finals. I assume they'll get to the NBA Finals. I picked them before the season. They have been close to historically great at this point. They have a plus 12.3 point differential. I think the last time I looked this up, that's the Best since the NBA merger. So second best all time NBA history. So like they could be just a juggernaut that no one's going as long.

Logan Murdoch (31:05)

As they don't play against the Mavericks or the Warriors.

Justin Barrier (31:08)

That's the thing. After that, who's the second best team in the West? Like by record you would say the Rockets. But like I don't think they're going to go very far in the playoffs. Like maybe Memphis.

Logan Murdoch (31:18)

Maybe there's like Memphis either Jokic is the institutional pick. Yeah, you're right. It's wide open.

Justin Barrier (31:23)

Well, it's open.

Logan Murdoch (31:24)

One other question that I wanted to ask you is like what do you think this says about. We talked about the Lakers side from a leadership side in their future. What do you think this says about the Mavs front office right now? Right? Like Nico Harrison is in charge but it's under new ownership. Right. Like, I don't know if this deal gets done if Mark Cuban is the principal owner of this team. Like, I don't think this.

Justin Barrier (31:44)

Right.

Logan Murdoch (31:44)

I don't think this happens. What do you think this says about where the Mavericks are? This is definitely a new era of, of Mavs thing. And I, I think Mark Cuban said earlier, like he doesn't know. I think he muse about like I don't know if he knows he's gonna, how long he's going to stay on at this point, right. Like I don't know what, what does this mean for his future with the team, right? Like he has a limited ownership stake. He. I don't know if he has basketball. He clearly doesn't have basketball decision making because if he did, I'm telling you, Luca would not have made this move. But what do you think this says about the Mavericks and where they are from a front office standpoint?

Justin Barrier (32:17)

I think you're right. I think it indicates that they're turning a page to a different era. And maybe there were signs of that last year and we just didn't pick up on them because all it was was to really build the best possible team for Luka to get them where they went, which was the NBA Finals. Like Luka plus stuff is still a recipe for success no matter where he's going to be. I think like maybe we should have took note more of that. Nico Harrison was more willing to shoot from the hip last trade deadline by going out and getting both Daniel Gafford and P.J. washington really dealing most of, if not all of the picks that they had available to do so in order to just make the best possible version of the team that they had right this second. Right. And it seems like they're kind of doing the same again. At the very least, they're thinking more immediately than they are long term, which, as we said at the top of the pod, it's completely different how teams look at this. And to be honest, like, I don't know if it will work out, but I kind of like it. You know, this does feel a little bit more old school where, like, players got traded for players. This isn't like 9,000 picks that you have to just like track down the protections and like, oh, like going to next year's draft. Like, it's like five teams are actually going to draft a player. And so, like, to see a superstar traded for a superstar. Let's line these guys up and let's fucking go. Like, I, I kind of like it. It's ballsy.

Logan Murdoch (33:34)

I, I like that part of it too, bro. Is like, man, especially with this Jimmy Butler stuff. Like, and I don't know how it is for you on group chat, but, like, on the real ones, it's like, as a trade deadline comes up, it's like, what did Jimmy Butler do on his Instagram? Like, I'm just kind of like, I'm. Oh, it's. I'm over that part of what the NBA is just willing deal, dude. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, let's. Yeah, it seemed like, especially in a league where there's just so much posturing, there's just so much, you know, innuendo. Like, I missed the nights of like a. Just. I don't know when last time we've had like a trade this fucking crazy in the middle of the night. But, like, let's have more of this kind of.

Justin Barrier (34:12)

I think, I mean, just like something that we didn't know was going to happen or even might happen. Like, there were no inklings to this. The last thing that I can think of where I've just been completely blindsided by something like this was Kawhi to the Clippers and bringing Paul George with him. That was like, it all happened at once. Like, and it was the middle of the night. I remember it was like 10 or 11 summer league time, people. Summer league.

Logan Murdoch (34:38)

Speaking of bars.

Justin Barrier (34:39)

Yeah, there was the, the earthquake that happened that shut down the Zion debut. That one was a mess. I guess, like, the hardened trade to Houston was another one that no one saw coming. They kind of did that under the COVID of darkness.

Logan Murdoch (34:54)

But I think also you could make an argument for the Harden one was like, you kind. You didn't see it coming when it happened, like him going to Houston, but like, you could make a case that this was probably like the fork in the. It was a fork in the road moment. I would say more like the Kawaii PG thing was like, oh shit. It was just.

Justin Barrier (35:12)

Yes.

Logan Murdoch (35:13)

That was an old shit. This is.

Justin Barrier (35:15)

This is one of the most wild circumstances that I can. I ever remember. I mean, we didn't even talk about the fact that like Maps fans love Luca. Not only has he been just their, their moon and stars for so long, he literally took the baton from der, got the dirt send off. There was like, there's like the whole Euro thing, the continuation there. Like they have to be.

Logan Murdoch (35:40)

I know I'm not the only one on this call that feels this way. I thought Luka was going to end his career in Dallas. Like, I really did think he was going to. For the simple fact that like Dallas is a. Players love playing in Dallas. For one, for two, you don't got to like. People talk shit about like being Luka not coming into camp in shape. You talk to anybody from Dallas, they not tripping. They got Luka Doncic, you know, they'll play his way into shape. I know a lot of Mavs fans who really don't care, right? The media market is chill. He can do whatever he wants. I think he lived down the street from Cuban. Like, nobody's going to bother him other than this year. I'm sorry that that shit happened to you, Luca. But like, it seemed like a market that was like a match made in heaven for him. And now it's another thing that is interesting one. I want to give space to the fact that I'm sure a large part of Dallas feels like they got their heart ripped out. But I'm going to be interested to see like, how Luka fares with this LA spotlight. And not just the LA spotlight, the LA Lakers spotlight, which is like every day you think that you like, you get asked a couple questions about your weight once or twice a year. This shit gonna be every game. I don't know how he's gonna deal with that, but it's gonna be, it's, it's. That's gonna be an interesting part too. But like, do wanna give space to the fact that like Dallas just. There are kids right now probably just like crying because their favorite player just got taken away. If they're up Saturday night, they might be up.

Justin Barrier (37:11)

But you're right though. I think it's going to be a fascinating turning of the page for the Lakers. I mean, we didn't even talk about the JJ Reddick sort of wrinkles of this. I know that, like, they've at the very least done podcasts together. And so, like, we're just adding another podcast guest onto the resume.

Logan Murdoch (37:27)

You talk about it. Talk about a guy that just came up.

Justin Barrier (37:30)

I know fans, I mean, I don't know what this. This is considered. I guess it's more of like, came to the. Like fell to the middle now because they're not going to be. I don't think they'll be very good for the rest of the season because there's a lot to figure out. But the one thing I will say this, the Lakers kind of gave hints and foreshadowed the fact that, like, they wanted to build their young core and that is why they hired JJ Rank. There was a lot of talk about, like, oh, he will coach them up to a point where we need them to be. We can't just keep trading all these draft picks, yada, yada, yada. He really needs to do wonders with these guys. And I will say he's done a reasonably good job at this point. Austin Reeves, for instance, has played very well. Max Christie, totally solid starting 3 and D sort of talent, very athletic. I like him and I like him on the, on the Mavs. They needed more wing depth there. But you really got to make a lot of chicken salad here, you know, out of some guys, unless they get some other talent in here. But, like, he needs to be drawing up the most beautiful ATOs in NBA history in order to work this, because this season is going to be highly complicated and probably. I mean, let me ask you this. Where do you see both teams at the end of the season? Like, do you think the Lakers can still make a play in. In this regard?

Logan Murdoch (38:47)

I don't. I don't. I don't think so. But the other thing is this, though. If there was ever a team that. Or ever a player that can. A singular player that can bring up a team like that, it would be. I would say it would be Luka Doncic, right? Cause he is the prime type of guy that has drag teams that have no. Similar to how like LeBron was in his early career. A guy that can drag a team to a place that they're not supposed to be, right? So I don't know how his health is going to be, but if there was a guy that could do it, I think that he could do it now. Like, I don't know how. And I would imagine that like that JJ has no other choice but to give the keys to Luka Doncic for the offense. So like he's going to have the ball in his hands. Probably going to be some sort of variation what he was playing in Dallas or ain't nobody else to pass the ball to other than LeBron James. And, and maybe, maybe LeBron buys in and they get into a play in and maybe they make some noise, you know, who knows? Who knows?

Justin Barrier (39:47)

When you're saying the names, it's just like they don't connect at this point.

Logan Murdoch (39:51)

I told you it's a 2k trade that we weren't supposed to make. And then Dallas, I think Dallas, I'd say get to the second round or something. Then they get to the second round. I don't think they get to the finals. I just don't like, I just don't trust the. While I trust the depth. I don't trust like the top heavy guys to make it happen. The guys that you need to get to there to get you there. I don't trust it.

Justin Barrier (40:18)

I think you're right. I think we'll see about LeBron. That's, that's a huge domino that we still need to figure out. Assuming that he is going to buy in and just kind of go along with this, which would be honestly weird. This is the guy who was like opting out and forcing teams to do whatever he wanted for year after year after year for most of our adult lives at this point. But let's just assume he's back. I think the Lakers can still make the play in because Luka plus LeBron plus stuff is just going to be able to manufacture wins. Luka assuming that he's healthy. So we're already talking about nine different ifs at this point. I'll say this, and this might be bold as we're recording this at 10:40pm Pacific on a Saturday night. I think they could still make a Western Conference finals if they all buy in. If AD is locked into the blueprint, if they play him more at center rather than right side of the bracket. Right side of the bracket. I think their size is still a force. I think they're still deep in the type of two way players that you need in order to win in this league. I just like the roster. If Kyrie's healthy, I think it makes sense. And as we've seen, like the top of the west is just a little soft. Like even Memphis job. Morant just like hasn't been right this entire season. Keep missing games. But Also, like, when he's played, hasn't been the type of job in, like, two months at this point, I think.

Logan Murdoch (41:34)

I think short term, Dallas wins, but long term, like, the Lakers win. This deal could be.

Justin Barrier (41:41)

Do you like. So you like this more for the Lakers than the Mavs?

Logan Murdoch (41:45)

Well, it gives more. I mean, I think the Lakers have more of a ceiling, like, in five years, I think the Lakers have definitely have more of a ceiling to work with on this. And I mean, you got a guy that's 25 years old that is already being proclaimed as one of the best of his generation.

Justin Barrier (41:59)

Like.

Logan Murdoch (42:00)

Like, and that's gonna. Luka, maybe not this, like, right now, at this very instance is going to do it, but, like, players are gonna want to play in Los Angeles because they want to play with Luka, and they want, like, whenever you have a singular star like that, people are gonna want to play with them. And on top of the fact people want to be Lakers, like, it's cool being a Laker if you're going to play in la. And so I think long term, I mean, the Lakers are going to. Going to do well with this. I think that the city of Dallas, that's going to be another thing that I'm interested in, how they're going to welcome this team, you know, like, are they going to fall in love with this team? So we'll see. There's a lot of questions to be answered. I got to go to sleep, man. So I don't know what you. I know you got to reconcile a lot of things on your end, too. We gave the streets 41 minutes.

Justin Barrier (42:49)

That's right.

Logan Murdoch (42:50)

You have to contemplate on your own right now. It's about eleven your time. All right. That has been a Ringer NBA Show. I'm Logan Murdoch. That is Justin Barrett. Good to see you, buddy. I don't see you that much often anymore. You're my editor, allegedly. But I'll never see you.

Justin Barrier (43:04)

Technically, I'm more your manager and we have another editor on you, but I still don't.

Logan Murdoch (43:10)

We're a manager. I don't see your ass. So anyways, yeah, I guess that is. We're getting to the delirious part, which means we need to get the hell up out of here. That has been another edition of the Ringer NBA Show. Special edition. Luca Donches traded to the Lakers for AD that's crazy. All right, talk to y'all soon. Bye.