Is the Ja Morant Era Coming to a Close in Memphis? Plus, Which Recent Trends Are March Mirages? | Group Chat

Summary

The Ringer NBA Show: "Is the Ja Morant Era Coming to a Close in Memphis? Plus, Which Recent Trends Are March Mirages | Group Chat"

Release Date: March 31, 2025
Host(s): Justin Varier, Rob Mahoney, Big Woz (Wosny Lambre)

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1. Opening Remarks and Introduction

The episode begins with the hosts reuniting after a brief hiatus, expressing enthusiasm about the reunion. Justin Varier humorously compares the show's squad dynamics to a Cleveland Cavaliers' playoff run, setting an upbeat tone for the discussion.

Notable Quote:
Justin Varier [01:35]: "We've already clinched the playoffs. We know we're going to be a 1 seed in the big pod race the big pod wars."

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2. Memphis Grizzlies' Mid-Season Coaching Change

The primary focus of the episode centers on the Memphis Grizzlies' shocking decision to fire head coach Taylor Jenkins with only a few games left in the regular season. The Grizzlies, holding a 44-29 record and the fifth seed in the competitive Western Conference, have not made the playoffs in six years.

Key Discussion Points:

• Timing and Justification:
  Rob Mahoney questions the rationale behind the mid-season firing, especially with only single-digit games remaining. He suggests that such a move typically occurs under extraordinary circumstances, often unrelated to on-court performance.

  Notable Quote:
  Rob Mahoney [03:36]: "Why would this be the time that you would fire your head coach unless something happening was an abject disaster?"

• Offensive Shifts and Team Dynamics:
  The Grizzlies transitioned from a Ja Morant-heavy, pick-and-roll-driven offense to a more democratic approach where multiple players handle the ball. Rob and Big Woz discuss the challenges this shift posed, including increased turnovers and inconsistent offensive execution.

  Notable Quote:
  Rob Mahoney [06:11]: "They went from a John Morant heavy driven offense... into something much more democratic... but they've been losing to good teams left and right."

• Organizational Decisions and GM Zach Kleinman's Role:
  Big Woz critiques GM Zach Kleinman for overhauling the coaching staff and implementing a new offensive system too close to the playoffs, leading to organizational disarray.

  Notable Quote:
  Big Woz [07:19]: "They already fired one of the guys you hired this summer... it's insane to me. People should be asking Zach Kleiman some freaking questions right now."

• Future Implications for the Grizzlies:
  The hosts debate whether the firing indicates a deeper issue with Ja Morant's availability due to injuries and suspensions or if it's a move to revamp the team’s direction. They express skepticism about the timing and effectiveness of this decision.

  Notable Quote:
  Justin Varier [14:48]: "The big question long term, Rob, which is like, what do you do with a guy like that who's so great, but he's just not as available as you need him to be?"

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3. March Mirages: Analyzing Teams’ Late-Season Performances

The discussion transitions to "March Mirages," a segment analyzing teams that have shown significant improvement or underperformance during March, determining if these trends are sustainable.

A. Chicago Bulls: A Realistic Surge or Temporary Spike

The Bulls have posted a 9-5 record in March, boosted by standout performances from Josh Giddey and Kobe White. The hosts examine whether this surge is a lasting trend or just a temporary blip.

• Josh Giddey’s Evolution:
  Rob praises Giddey’s growth, highlighting his improved shooting and playmaking abilities, which have transformed him into a more versatile and impactful player.

  Notable Quote:
  Rob Mahoney [32:24]: "He's playing the best basketball of his career, full stop."

• Kobe White’s Scoring Prowess:
  Kobe White has been a revelation, averaging 29 points in March. The hosts debate whether his scoring surge is sustainable or a product of favorable matchups and reduced competition intensity.

  Notable Quote:
  Big Woz [30:55]: "I think he's gonna get a lot of money regardless."

• Sustainability Concerns:
  Questions are raised about whether the Bulls can maintain their defensive and offensive consistency beyond March, considering roster changes and the nascent development of players like Mattis Bazelis.

  Notable Quote:
  Big Woz [19:49]: "If you just get rid of somebody who may not align with their vision for the franchise... what are you accomplishing?"

B. Minnesota Wolves: Rising as a Playoff Contender

The Wolves have had an impressive March, balancing strong offensive output with improved defense. The discussion highlights key players like Julius Randle, Jaden McDaniels, and Rudy Gobert, whose performances have elevated the team’s standings.

• Defensive Improvement:
  The Wolves have become a more formidable defensive unit, ranking third in the conference. Julius Randle’s evolved playstyle, focusing on team-oriented basketball and efficient scoring, is credited for much of this improvement.

  Notable Quote:
  Big Woz [44:54]: "He just has not had the playoff resume to think he can be this guy all the time. But I certainly hope he can."

• Jaden McDaniels and Team Identity:
  McDaniels has emerged as a crucial player, showcasing athleticism and versatility. The Wolves have reestablished their team identity, emphasizing physicality and cohesive play, which has been pivotal in their late-season success.

  Notable Quote:
  Rob Mahoney [55:08]: "He's putting all of his physical gifts to use for the betterment of the team."

• Playoff Potential:
  The hosts express confidence in the Wolves' ability to contend in the playoffs, noting their balanced offense and defense, coupled with strategic player utilization.

  Notable Quote:
  Rob Mahoney [62:47]: "They have found something in Jalen Clark and something that they actually really needed."

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4. Additional Highlights and Player Spotlights

Beyond the central discussions, the episode touches on various other topics and players experiencing noteworthy performances or incidents during March.

• Austin Reaves’ Lakers Performance:
  Austin Reaves has been a standout for the Los Angeles Lakers, averaging 24.5 points and 6 rebounds in March. The hosts analyze his role post-Luka Doncic trade, emphasizing his complementarity with LeBron James and the team's offensive dynamics.

  Notable Quote:
  Rob Mahoney [51:21]: "Austin Reaves is the best driver on the team, period."

• Isaiah Stewart’s Aggression:
  The episode highlights a recent altercation involving Isaiah Stewart and Dante DiVincenzo, commenting on Stewart’s aggressive playstyle and its impact on his team's dynamics.

  Notable Quote:
  Justin Varier [58:22]: "Sometimes I think he's on the court because he wants to hurt someone."

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5. Conclusion and Teasers for Upcoming Episodes

Wrapping up, the hosts recap their insights on the Grizzlies' mid-season coaching change and the validity of the March Mirages. They hint at a special upcoming episode focused on the "Team of the Season," featuring an in-depth analysis and a guest from the highlighted team.

Notable Quote:
Justin Varier [69:25]: "We're going to talk about the Wolves, but I do want to talk about the fight first and foremost."

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Key Takeaways

• Memphis Grizzlies’ Future Uncertain: The mid-season firing of Taylor Jenkins raises questions about the organization’s direction and Ja Morant's role amidst ongoing injuries and disciplinary issues.

• Chicago Bulls’ March Success Under Scrutiny: While the Bulls have shown impressive performances in March, doubts persist about the sustainability of this trend and the long-term impact on the team's dynamics.

• Minnesota Wolves Emerging as Dark Horses: The Wolves' balanced approach and key player performances position them as serious playoff contenders, showcasing improved defense and cohesive team play.

• Player Development and Team Identity: The episode underscores the importance of player growth and strategic team-building in navigating late-season performances and playoff aspirations.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Justin Varier [01:35]: "We've already clinched the playoffs. We know we're going to be a 1 seed in the big pod race the big pod wars."

• Rob Mahoney [03:36]: "Why would this be the time that you would fire your head coach unless something happening was an abject disaster?"

• Rob Mahoney [06:11]: "They went from a John Morant heavy driven offense... into something much more democratic... but they've been losing to good teams left and right."

• Big Woz [07:19]: "They already fired one of the guys you hired this summer... it's insane to me. People should be asking Zach Kleiman some freaking questions right now."

• Rob Mahoney [32:24]: "He's playing the best basketball of his career, full stop."

• Big Woz [30:55]: "I think he's gonna get a lot of money regardless."

• Justin Varier [14:48]: "The big question long term, Rob, which is like, what do you do with a guy like that who's so great, but he's just not as available as you need him to be?"

• Rob Mahoney [55:08]: "He's putting all of his physical gifts to use for the betterment of the team."

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This comprehensive summary encapsulates the critical discussions from "Group Chat" on The Ringer NBA Show, providing valuable insights into the Memphis Grizzlies' coaching turmoil, the legitimacy of March Mirages with a spotlight on the Chicago Bulls and Minnesota Wolves, and notable player performances shaping the NBA landscape as the season concludes.

Transcript

[Justin Varier]

This episode is brought to you by patron. 100% additive free tequila. When it comes to ingredients, Patron doesn't need to play games. That's why their tequila is crafted with 100% Weber Blue Agave water and thyme. No sweeteners, no added extracts, no secrets, just 100% additive free tequila. Visit patron tequila.com to learn more. The perfect way to enjoy Patron is responsibly Copyright 2025, imported by the Patron Spirits Company Coral Gables, Florida. Tequila 40% Alcoh by volume. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Basketball fans know that a great assist can change the game. And there's no greater assist than one from State Farm. State Farm is here to help you navigate the right coverage for your home car and more. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. State Farm, Bloomington, IL coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability and eligibility vary by state. Hello and welcome to Group Chat. I am Justin Varier and joining me as always, Rob Mahoney. Big Woz. The boys are back in town. First full squad pod since what, like a week? Week plus maybe.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, a week plus. Yeah, you say always. We're just ships in the night out here. I feel like I haven't seen both of you in the same space in way too long. I can feel a synergizing as. As we speak. You know, I feel more connected to the two of you than ever.

[Justin Varier]

Like the Cavs out there, you know, we've already clinched the playoffs. We know we're going to be a 1 seed in the big pod race the big pod wars. So we're just getting everybody a little bit of rest before the big guns start to kick in.

[Rob Mahoney]

You know, I'll take that. If you say so.

[Justin Varier]

Was good to see you as always.

[Big Woz]

As always, I'm happy to be on with you guys, man. But like, the thing is for me, like even when I'm not potting with you guys, your takes are or potential takes are always circling around my brain as I consume the NBA. So it's like you guys have never left my side. To be honest with you.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's very heartwarming. I mean, I take it in the same way, except to say that there is a miniature Justin and a miniature was in my head and at any given point in time I am doing take battle with the two of you, trading takes, doing imaginary pods. I'm just running like billions of pod scenarios in my brain at all times and now we get to live one of them and it's. It's been too long.

[Justin Varier]

I do find it hard, hard listening to you guys on other podcasts, because when you say things, I just want to debate you. Like, I. I don't care about the other person's point. I just want to, like, kneel you guys for saying something that I disagree with. No, just me.

[Rob Mahoney]

The lines are open anytime, Justin. You can just angrily call us if the mood ever strikes you.

[Justin Varier]

I might just do that for the Patreon. Perhaps.

[Big Woz]

Excellent.

[Rob Mahoney]

Perhaps.

[Justin Varier]

Okay, we're going to get into today's podcast in the back half. We're going to go through some potential March mirages, which are teams that have done well in March. We'll kind of determine whether or not those recent results have legs beyond just this March period of basketball, which, let's be honest, not the best in the NBA. But we'll get into that. But first we got to talk about the Memphis Grizzlies, who unfortunately are not whole like us on this podcast because they have fired Taylor Jenkins, the coach for the past six years. 44 and 29 record this season, the fifth seed in the difficult as all hell Western Conference. Rob, what was your first reaction to this? Were you shocked as I think most.

[Rob Mahoney]

People, Yeah, I think just the timing, the why now question. Single digit games remaining in the regular season. Why would this be the time that you would fire your head coach unless something happening was an abject disaster? I don't think anything. With the Grizzlies sluggish as they've been of late, losing to good teams left and right, all those things are real problems. Taylor Jenkins doesn't have a perfect coaching track record by any means, but he's a good coach. And I don't know what you accomplish, frankly, making this move at this time. I. I just don't really see the upside of it.

[Big Woz]

So the two coach firings that come to mind are IME adoka, which was right before the season, which was like, what the hell?

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Big Woz]

Then we found out there was some like, you know, work place controversy. Okay. Like this is just off of the beaten path of why coaches tend to get fired.

[Rob Mahoney]

Reasons outside of basketball.

[Big Woz]

Yes. And then there's the Adrian Griffin who got fired with an even higher winning percentage his first season as coach. And then you look into it and it's like, well, he's lost the confidence of literally men 1 through 15 y and so he had to go. So usually it's like these basically extraordinary circumstances that have to happen for a coach to get fired mid season. Or in the case of Hidoka, like right before a season is starting, you know, and so I'm like, all right, so like something like that is going to come out about Taylor Jenkins. And then I read the athletic piece and I read other stuff and it's just like, yeah, they just don't like the direction the team is going this season. Like what? Like how can, how can firing this guy be an improvement for this team this season specifically?

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Justin Varier]

I just can't think of another example in recent history where a successful team with about a couple weeks left in the season before they are going to make the playoffs fired their coach. It happens to bad teams all the time around this time just so they can get a leg up on the coaching search over some of these other teams that are going to be in the mix there. But this is a complete outlier and I think you're right. Was it sounds like based on what happened last offseason, which they basically changed a lot of the assistant coaches on Jenkins staff, this seemed to be something brewing for a while. And if there's a takeaway from the past, what, six months of transactions that we've seen, Luka Doncic being first and foremost, to me this just speaks to the idea that like these are humans making these decisions and humans make irrational choices sometimes based on human impulses.

[Rob Mahoney]

This is quite an irrational one, though, because it is the kind of move that either should have been made in the off season, which I think a lot of people were eyeing. Right. If the Grizzlies had a disappointing run in any stretch of the imagination, Taylor Jenkins had a long run here, a long tenure as the coach of this team. If they didn't see movement, he could absolutely be out of a job come summertime. And so it was like it was either either should have been made then after the run in the off season or like six weeks ago. But now there's there this we, we're in the middle ground. We're in no man's land where you don't have any developmental opportunities. You don't have really a, a chance to dramatically reshape this offense in a way that it seems like maybe part of the objective here, at least if you want to factor in John Morant's comfort level or Zach Edie's comfort level or some of the stakeholders on the court for this team and kind of what they're best suited to, running a little more pick and roll. Sure, I, I, I understand the argument and the merits. That said, overhauling the coaching staff and changing the offense seemed like a decision that was not Taylor Jenkins and Taylor Jenkins alone So I, I really don't know what we're accomplishing or who's accomplishing it, which is the Memphis Grizzlies in 2025.

[Big Woz]

Unfortunately, Taylor Jenkins didn't fire his entire staff last off season. It was the gm, Zach Kleinman. Okay. Um. And you know what tends to happen, especially in our industry? Nobody ever wants to kill the freaking GM. Unless he doesn't get 70 draft picks, of course, because that's the only stupid GM could ever do according to people in our freaking industry. But like, bro, you fire this guy's entire staff, you basically forced them to implement a new offense, which I'm not mad at. Like, to be honest, like, it's not that hard to go back to doing what Ja likes the most and doing something new and having your offense be more multiple more dynamic I think is a cool idea. But you already fired one of the guys you hired this summer. That's a assistant coaches on the GM's part. Like the LaRoche dude. Like you done fucked up with that. And now you're expecting people to think this is a stroke of brilliance or a good idea that nine games before the playoffs start, you get rid of the head guy and throw the team in complete disarray. That's insane to me. People should be asking Zach Kleiman some freaking questions right now.

[Justin Varier]

Well, Rob, where do you net out on this whole offensive thing? Because it does feel like this is the impetus perhaps for Jenkins's ultimate firing dating back to last offseason. They clearly have democratized the offense in ways that have been beneficial to the team and also to Jaren Jackson in particular. But it sounds like Jaw is a little bit myth that he's not as getting him any as many ball screens. He's probably being off the ball a little bit too much and it's easier to probably face guard him and take him out. Do you think like the offensive one, the change has been a good thing and do you think they needed to do anything differently from here?

[Rob Mahoney]

I do think it had been a healthy start. The problem is, is it didn't have a chance to like fully manifest. You're right. You're only a couple months into a radical, radical change. Just to sort of explicate this a little bit, if you haven't been keeping up with Memphis Grizzlies basketball this season. They went from a John Morant heavy driven offense when he was on the floor in seasons past. Very pick and roll, very, very straight line drive and kick kind of style into something much more democratic where Everyone is handling the ball where John Morant, one of the most dynamic pick and roll players in the league, is suddenly off in the corner playing the wing, playing a totally different role and not coincidentally in and out of the lineup constantly as he has been for the period of his career in which he hasn't been suspended for ridiculous behavior off the court. So I think it is a means to survive. Right. When you have John Morant as one of your core players, you need to be able to score without him. You need a system that can make you less reliant on Jod, doing job things all the time. But you didn't really give yourself a chance for that offense to actually take hold. And so what resulted is every time the Grizzlies played an actually good defense, the turnovers ramped up, the offense fell apart. These guys aren't yet comfortable with the full extent of what they're being asked to do because they've been doing something else for the last several years. So you either needed to commit to the thing or not to commit to the thing. But these half measures where, oh, now we're going to do some of this democratic offense, but also we're going to incorporate job pick and rolls. I don't, I don't know where you're going with that. I don't, I don't know what that's accomplishing. I don't know that that's getting you any closer to the elite teams in the league. And we should say the Grizzlies have not beaten a good, a good Western Conference team in quite some time. It's been, it's been a tough, it's been tough sledding. I will say for the last several months, since December 20th, they have two wins against top eight teams in the West. Two both against the Memphis, the Minnesota Timberwolves. Everything else has been a train wreck anytime they meet elite competition. And does this change any of that? I can't see how.

[Big Woz]

Just some, just some quotes out of the press conference that Climan gave on Saturday. The decision was, quote, unquote, mine and mine alone, quote. I came to the conclusion this was in the best interest of the team and urgency is a core principles of principal of ours. So I decided to go on with the move. The Memphis Grizzlies apparently are in an urgent.

[Rob Mahoney]

What does that even mean?

[Big Woz]

What?

[Rob Mahoney]

Urgency is a core principle?

[Big Woz]

Yeah, they're in a championship or bus, I guess, mindset. Even though these guys. Have these guys made it out the second round before?

[Justin Varier]

I don't think so.

[Rob Mahoney]

Not this team.

[Justin Varier]

No, I think that's the problem is that they were foretold to be in line for big things and it just never happened. And think we on this podcast could be like, oh, injuries or ja. Just not being there because of all the gun stuff. But I think over time, if you're expecting to be at the top of the west and you're not, I think it just builds tension over time. And Jenkins is the easiest person to move at this point.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, let's talk about the Jenkins part of this because it's ridiculous timing, but the murmurs were there for a reason. And I think the murmurs with Jenkins specifically come around a couple of things. One, yeah, clearly this big offensive shift and not everyone is happy. Whether you want to put blame for that at his feet or not, I, I think frankly would be a little bit ridiculous given all the circumstantial factors we've talked about. But also, even when he has had full control of this team, I find that he can be a little, a little too generous with his rotation. Like at some point, at some point you just have to play Jaren Jackson Jr. Like 40 minutes and not too many guys. They have, they, they have. The Memphis Grizzlies have been burdened by too many guys for a long time.

[Justin Varier]

An abundance of guys.

[Rob Mahoney]

An abundance of guys. And it suits Taylor Jenkins's coaching style to indulge that and to want to play your 9th and 10th and sometimes 11th guys in the rotation at the expense of really good all, all league, all NBA, all star level players or near all star level players. I just think at a certain point that's a bad idea. And factoring into that in the playoffs, we've seen not the most creative coach in terms of evolving beyond his original game plan. Like the Grizzlies go in with an idea of what they want to execute, they start executing it, maybe they win a game or two, things change and they're just still executing the initial game plan, still running their stuff, still running into the wall, over and over and over in a way that, yeah, for a young up and coming team that's trying to move further and further in the playoffs presents a little bit of a problem.

[Big Woz]

And look, I'm not going to sit up here and pretend that Taylor Jenkins is the next Phil Jackson or anything like that. To be quite honest and fair, things that I've heard about Taylor Jenkins and Rob said, as Rob said, his approach to the Grizzlies, people would say that they kind of walk all over the guy. That's what would be said, like, he basically didn't implement any level of control or hierarchy or the kind of things that the coaches that have a certain level of gravitas and respect are able to do. Selling of a vision, that kind of thing. Not to say that they were aimless, but, like, you don't see the Grizzlies as this, like, rigid, like, tough, disciplined type of team. That's not been their reputation.

[Justin Varier]

They're not exactly fighting everyone like the Detroit Pistons, but, like, they're not choir boys, as we've seen time and time again.

[Big Woz]

Yeah. And, you know, and again, I think that's been the critique of his that I've heard from people that have been around the team. And who knows, maybe this guy from Finland that's now the interim coach.

[Rob Mahoney]

Tuomas Isolo, we should say is now the head coach of the Memphis. Tuomas Isolo, the new interim head coach of the Memphis Grizzlies, a quite creative and accomplished offensive coach in his own right. Who?

[Big Woz]

France.

[Rob Mahoney]

In France, in a. In a different circumstance, you could see a team like the Grizzlies taking a chance on with an. With an open coaching vacancy. Under these circumstances, you're putting a lot on him, especially when he kind of in, like, I would say the reporting out of Memphis has much been much more anchored with Noah LaRoche. As far as the person who sort of engineered the Grizzlies offense to be in the form that it is now. It's very reminiscent of what he ran previously in as a D3 coach, if I remember correctly. But Isola was also kind of involved in spicing up the offense. Also involved and had a hand in some of the things that got the Grizzlies here in the first place. And so the fact that one of those guys is fired, you're gone, and the other guy is now your head coach is a wild turn of events for this.

[Big Woz]

So let me get this straight, y'all. How the Memphis Grizzlies decided they wanted to revamp and revolutionize what they were doing. They got a D3 guy.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Big Woz]

And a guy from France.

[Rob Mahoney]

This is how you get outside the box.

[Big Woz]

Thinkers was just, just, just pointing that out to folks.

[Justin Varier]

The finisher. Bold, man. The finisher. Doing some stuff you don't know about what the fish going on there.

[Rob Mahoney]

There are no Swedes, but they're all right.

[Big Woz]

Okay.

[Justin Varier]

Well, I. I think we're kind of circling. The big question here is whether or not the Grizzlies had a coaching issue or if they had a job, rant issue because this team has succeeded regular season in the regular season without Jaw and had been just fine. But I think we would all agree when JA plays, they're on another level and they're the type of thing, that type of team that could compete top of the West. Unfortunately, Jaws just hasn't been available. First because of the suspensions, now because of injuries, the big old one last year and this year, there's been about 30 different things that have kept him off the court here. And so did Jenkins ultimately just be the. Was he the fall guy because JA isn't playing? And then I think it opens up a bigger question long term, Rob, which is like, what do you do with a guy like that who's so great, but he's just not as available as you need him to be?

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, let me circle back to something you said there, which is that, you know, with Jaw healthy and in the lineup, the Grizzlies can compete with the top of the West. I think with this firing is pretty drawing out of all of us and out of the circumstances, the question of are they, like, are. Are the Grizzlies ready to compete with the top of the West? I think there's.

[Justin Varier]

I would.

[Rob Mahoney]

There's clearly a vacancy after OKC where any number of teams could fill that void and could be a Western Conference finalist, could be a fellow contender. The Grizzlies have shown that at times this season, but they've also just been so bad in some of these games that matter. It's. It's really hard to believe in them at this state.

[Justin Varier]

I think they're just too talented. Like, at the end of the day, you have one of the best big threes in the league, and then you have all these supplemental guys that come in, like, they lost Brandon Clark the other day. And it doesn't matter because you have Zach Edie just on ice ready to take lobs from John Morant there.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Justin Varier]

And they competed basically. Judges all of a sudden got healthy enough to play, which was very odd when he played this weekend against the Lakers in their first game Post Jenkins firing clearly wasn't right because toward the end of that game was like reaching toward his hamstring. But they still like went toe to toe with the Lakers, a team that I think we all have a high opinion of long term, probably top four in the west at worst, and were totally in that game. And so I honestly just think, like, they just need him healthy. But how do you ever get him into that position? Because it seems like these nagging things Wise just keep adding up over time, over and over again.

[Big Woz]

So I, you know, when they got to top of the west, they were like 34 and 15 or something crazy like that. Number two in the West. They, I had even previous to that have fallen in love with the, you know, just the pure talent that is available to them, especially with the ancillary guys where there's just no holes in any lineups that they could put out there. I definitely got excited for what they could do like and I think, yeah, the talent remains there for top four, top three, even Western Conference kind of side. I think my problem with the firing is that you guys have not built a foundation over the course of this season to perform at a top three in the west level. I don't care what coach you fire, y'all not gonna get there in nine games. You just haven't built the habits, the sort of ideas about who you are as a team over the course of a long season. Like say a Cleveland to name a team, not to say you gotta go out and win at a 63 win pace, but I'm just saying like what they're doing on a night to night basis feels very consistent, which is just what you don't hear about what you don't see from Memphis. And I don't know how this is going to build more foundational consistency for this group this season. That's why I'm just completely miffed by this.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, it's not a move that brings out or inspires any belief in the team to be able to succeed. Like on the one hand you're saying we are more talented than we believe our performance is right now and we should be playing better. Okay, how are we playing? Who's playing in what combinations and in what orientations and in what style and who does that style ultimately suit? Because if you're someone like Jaren Jackson Jr. Who's been cooking in this more democratic offense, how do you feel now about potentially being put back in the box in some points to run more pick and roll, to run a more traditional offense, if that is even the direction of the team. I don't think Isola wants necessarily to do that just based off of his previous coaching experience. But that may be what the Grizzlies end up.

[Justin Varier]

Yeah, the crazy thing is they haven't been bad offensively. They're one of the best offensive teams in the league. And the problem has been.

[Big Woz]

Which used to be their issue, by the way.

[Justin Varier]

Right, right. And so changing who is technically in charge of everything. I Don't. What's going to actually fundamentally change about the team this year is why I keep coming back to Jaws. Almost like the tension point for all of this, because I don't think you go more democratic because you want to appease JA first and foremost. If anything, this is more leaning into the strengths of some of the other players. The depth behind Jaw in particular, Jaren Jackson, then ja. And so I have to wonder because I think Howard Beck even kind of floated the idea earlier this year, just like he was asked the question, like, oh, what, what guy off the beaten path, like, could you see being moved? And he mentioned Jaw. I think the Grizzlies took offense to that. But like a lot of the things that they're doing would suggest that they are at the very least entertaining this idea that JA is in all, the end all, be all. And so I have to start wonder like, is that the other shoe to drop here, if not this offseason and maybe a year from now that we're basically laying track for John to be out.

[Big Woz]

But aren't they?

[Rob Mahoney]

By firing Jenkins? Yeah, like, aren't they over it? I'm so confused by the job Moran element of this and whether they're. Are they pushing in his direction or are they pulling away from it.

[Big Woz]

Why would you trade John, not Desmond Bain?

[Justin Varier]

Because just the job not being available in the same way that Kawhi isn't available has just created like a logistical problem. You need your best players playing. If he's not going to play, we've gotten so like upset about that that we'll just move on from him.

[Big Woz]

Yeah, I mean, I guess I could understand that. Availability is a major component here, obviously. And I think the amount of time that he's missed and it's been like so many different injuries and it's like six different things that have been on the injury port this season alone. That's. That's crazy and it's problematic. But I don't like trading ja. Like, I don't like it just firing your head coach mid season. But then also on the other hand being like, well, we would trade JA who like, basically that means we have to do a hard reset. Like those two things don't seem like they're. They make sense. Like the in season firing means you believe in the capabilities of this group to achieve in the now.

[Justin Varier]

Totally.

[Big Woz]

But yet at the same time, it's like Jaws on the market. So I'm just going to blow this up. Y'all not going to be relevant without John Moran.

[Justin Varier]

Let me Try to thread the needle here. I think like, yes, you're right, the coach firing suggests that we have something in house that we just need to change who is running it in order to bring out the best of it. I think I am wondering more long term if they're trying to. They're kind of shuffling the chairs because the issue is that Ja isn't playing. And for the same reason they made a very. It almost feels like they made a human decision by getting rid of someone who may not align with their vision for the franchise. Could they make another human decision by getting rid of Ja, who is the best player on the team? But the practicalities, the tension that builds over him not playing tends to wear on a team over the course of several seasons.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think clearly there are the, the ceiling related reasons for the Grizzlies that we're talking about as far as like why you would conceivably fire a coach at this stage in the season. If you just think there's no way we're going to get past a certain threshold with Taylor Jenkins as the head coach and anything is better to open the possibilities. Okay. I think the other reason for the urgency being a core principle of the Grizzlies organization would be if you think there is a human breaking point in the near future. If you think, if you think this team is close to combusting and this is just like conjecture based on circumstance, if you think that the tensions are high enough where people are unhappy enough where if you did go through a playoff run and say a first round out or just losing in any fashion that people like deemed to be unacceptable, then there could be a real cost to that. And so maybe this is an effort to get ahead of those costs, but that's me really going around the bend to try to justify something that just does not make a lot of sense.

[Big Woz]

So I got one more climbing quote for you guys. He's talking about his coach. What's his coach name again?

[Rob Mahoney]

Rob Thomas. Isolo Sisalo. Isolo.

[Justin Varier]

Isolo.

[Big Woz]

Isolo.

[Rob Mahoney]

He's finished.

[Big Woz]

This is, this is, this is climbing here. Looking forward to seeing what he's able to do with this group. There's realistic expectations. So he's trying to tamp down like, oh, we know we're not going to win the championships this year. There's not going to be time to install a bunch of things this time of year. My expectations are clarity of direction and we'll see what we can do, we'll see what we can execute. What in the entire fuck Is this guy talking about.

[Rob Mahoney]

He's saying not. Not my job. You know what?

[Justin Varier]

I just. I just.

[Rob Mahoney]

I just stepped into this seat.

[Big Woz]

No, this is the GM saying that. Oh, that was.

[Rob Mahoney]

That was. That was an eso.

[Big Woz]

That was Clinton.

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, boy.

[Justin Varier]

These press conferences are just kabuki theater. I mean, what are we talking about?

[Big Woz]

A bunch of things this time of year. But I want to see my expectations are clarity of direction and we'll see what we can do. We'll see what we can execute. That doesn't make that statement. Doesn't make any sense. You can't do shit. But I need to see that there's a clear path.

[Justin Varier]

It's all word salad, man. All these like these. We have to put somebody out there to account for a decision that was clearly like, personal and like, more about like a workplace trying to figure. Figure things out. Yeah, yeah.

[Big Woz]

It feels like this dude just ain't it. And I'm tired of looking at his face. That was it.

[Justin Varier]

I get it. Don't you? Why not just run a couple ball screens for me? They ran a few more. Yeah, they ran a few more against the Lakers. I mean, they ran plays for fucking Kendrick Perkins in Oklahoma City. You could run a couple ball screens in the midst of your beautiful offense for one of the most dynamic talents in the league. Like, I think they'll be fine.

[Rob Mahoney]

I just think the question you do not want to be asking yourself as March turns into April is what kind of team do we want to be? And now that is the only question in the room for the Grizzlies. Like, who are you? What do you want to do?

[Justin Varier]

Yeah, I. I don't know. The next step, though. I think it really is between these half measures versus the big old giant move of making something significant happen with and job would be the obvious candidate. I think so. We'll see. The Ringer NBA show is brought to you by FanDuel. It's the final stretch of the NBA season and the playoff picture is changing by the minute. Every three pointer or fourth quarter comeback means that much more. And with live betting on FanDuel, you can make the playoff picture a little prettier. So whether you're looking to ride with the hot shooter or think a team is due for a run, you can get in on the action until the final buzzer with America's number one sportsbook. All right, we're looking at Monday's slate. March 31st. I really like the Celtics. Yeah, a team that has one loss in the month of March. I think they're going to close it out here. They're minus five in Memphis and the Celtics are sitting people left and right. But I don't know, Memphis just doesn't seem right to me. Even post coach firing, which we talked about on today's episode of Group Chat, I. I just jaw doesn't seem fully healthy. It doesn't seem like they're quite right. So give me the Celtics. They've been an absolute buzzsaw. Minus five in Memphis. Lock it in. And however you want to play, now is the perfect time to join new FanDuel customers. Get started with $200 in bonus bets. If your first $5 bet wins, just visit FanDuel.com RingerMBA to join today, make every moment more with FanDuel. Official sports betting partner of the NBA. Must be 21 plus in present in select states or 18 plus in present in D.C. first online real money wager only. Five dollars. First deposit required. Bonus issued as non withdrawable bonus best, which expires seven days after receipt. Restrictions apply. See [e-mail] gambling problem. Call 1-800- gambler or visit rg-help.com all right, let's flip to the next part. Now, here we're going to talk about some better stories that have popped up here in March. We like to call them March Mirages. Or I like to call them March Mirages. In fact, I have been singing in my head a song about March Mirages as I've been noodling with this brilliant idea that I brought to you guys. It sounds kind of like a Katy Perry song, like some sort of like.

[Rob Mahoney]

Which era of Katy is like a California girls. What are you thinking?

[Justin Varier]

The one where she was making out with girls.

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, I kissed a girl.

[Big Woz]

I kissed a girl.

[Rob Mahoney]

Okay.

[Justin Varier]

All right.

[Big Woz]

Classic OG Yeah.

[Justin Varier]

Is this just a March mirage or is the sample good enough?

[Rob Mahoney]

Okay, that's not Katy Perry. That's Miley Cyrus. Wrecking Ball.

[Big Woz]

Yeah, that's exactly what.

[Justin Varier]

But a pop banger nonetheless.

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't disagree.

[Big Woz]

Yeah, I like Wrecking Ball, too.

[Rob Mahoney]

You put some production under that shit.

[Justin Varier]

We got a hit. Yeah, just get the Toms going. Yeah, but basically it's the teams that have popped here in March. We're going to decide whether or not it's a Mirage. A March Mirage. 4.

[Big Woz]

Y'all gonna be shocked to see who's at the top of this list, by the way.

[Justin Varier]

Well, one of the hottest teams in the NBA in the month of March, the Chicago Bulls. Nine and five. You hear that, Rob? Nine and Five. Your Chicago Bulls, all of a sudden playing gangbusters without Zach Levine yet again. What a. What a shock. What a surprise that Levine opened the door for some of these other guys to pop. Kobe White just on another level. 29 points, averaging in March. And then Josh Giddy, our beloved baby boy, 21 points, 10 rebounds, nine assists, 1.6 steals a game in March. I don't think it's a mirage. I think these guys are good.

[Rob Mahoney]

So when you say this is not a mirage, what do you mean by this?

[Big Woz]

By these guys? You mean the collective of the Bulls, or are you talking about White and Giddy individually?

[Justin Varier]

Okay, here's what I think. And this is ultimately what I've always think. I think the Bulls have a radio edit of a serious team. They have the version of an album where they take out all the swears and you put it in target. Right? Because I do think the offense, the vision for the team, makes a lot of sense. And it's why they popped originally by adding guys like Caruso and Lonzo, veterans who are a little underrated. And they brought out the best of them by democratizing the offensive system. There's a lot of guys past triple shoot, their size. It just flows. There's just like something beautiful about the vision that they've had. They just haven't always had the right players in there to that and that. To that point. Like, are they for real? Maybe not this season because Mattis Bazelis, a rookie, is now part of this core five starting for games. But I think if they get the right guys, if Buzzelis comes along, if Giddy plays like this over the course of a full season, I see it.

[Rob Mahoney]

I want to say this up top. Bou zealous rules. And if. If he had been given a real Runway, I think we'd be talking about him as a rookie of the year candidate. I think he. He's been playing at that level and really, really thriving. He just has that like weird long stepping gait that's so hard to time out. And so it makes him so hard to keep in front of you. I've been really impressed by him. Obviously impressed by what Josh Giddy is doing. Obviously blown over by Kobe White being like a 30 point scorer.

[Justin Varier]

I mean, so impressed by Giddy but not blown over. I find that curious.

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't.

[Big Woz]

Dude, I don't think was.

[Rob Mahoney]

Let me put this to you. Does this month change how you feel about Josh Giddey or the way you look at Josh Giddey as a player.

[Big Woz]

A little bit it does. Like, Josh Giddey is capable of being an additive player to a real basketball team. That feels like something that I didn't believe specifically coming out of the playoffs last year, where the guy was a freaking disaster. Let's call it what it is. However, the listeners gotta take March basketball in its proper context, which is what the bad teams are angling to for a race to the bottom.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yep.

[Big Woz]

The good teams are sick of the regular season and want to get to the playoffs already. And so that's the landscape that Josh Giddey has his best stretch in the history of his life.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, Josh in a contract year, we should say.

[Big Woz]

I think that context needs to matter. And I think, you know, I think the Jalen Green March run of last year needs to be instructive here where it's like, yeah, like, he's definitely showing something that we've never seen him do on any consistent level before. Okay, we like that. We're happy about that. And I was especially higher on Jalen Green. I didn't think he was going to make an all star team, but I was like, hey, man, he's building on something serious here. And I think you could say the same thing for Josh Giddy. But, like, do I think this is who Josh Giddey is now? No, I don't.

[Justin Varier]

I think the counter to that would be that he's been playing around this level, certainly not at March level, for practically half a season at this point. And I do think the shooting is the one thing that stood out. And I do wonder if that's more closer to who he is as a player, considering that he's still, what I think he's 20, 22 years old. He's actually, I believe, around the age of a lot of the older rookies that came into this draft. Like Dalton Connect is older than this guy. There's a bunch of them. But if he could shoot at this level. So he's at. He's at 38% for the entire season. You just see if he's hitting shots how much. The rest of the additive stuff that he does, it just opens up for him and the team.

[Rob Mahoney]

He's playing the best basketball of his career, full stop. Like, no explanation necessary. He's looked better. And I think overall this role with the Bulls just suits him better than the one he was being asked to play with the Thunder. Right. Like being a strictly connective player and trying to find the gaps and the creases in the offense, that it's being driven by somebody else. It's Tough. It's really tough if you can't shoot in particular. And so having him and Kobe White able to play off each other and in the democratic style you were talking about, Justin, where the Bulls were in a lot of pick and roll into pick and roll into pick and roll. It's just one action flowing into the next. The past triple shoot stuff that you alluded to, all that fits how Josh Giddey plays really, really well and there isn't so much happening that's better than him to marginalize him off to the side. And so then his playmaking gets to sing. Then the fact that I would say he's been more assertive in attacking the basket and driving this year than we've ever seen from him before, that's a meaningful change. The shooting, I just don't know whether to believe if it's real or not. It still feels pretty disproportionate to the guy that he's been and maybe that's just a young player getting better. I would love to see it. I think overall with the Bulls where I'm at is I give Josh Giddy a ton of credit for driving an offense that is winning games and participating that in that at a super high level and being the best version of the player he's been in so many different ways. Like maybe even like an under the radar thing that Josh Giddy is doing right now is he's been so active going after offensive rebounds because teams don't guard him. Like if, if no one's going to tips, if no one's going to put a body on you, all of a sudden you can sneak into space and you can pick up so many loose balls and the Bulls are just thriving off those kinds of second chances right now. Like they're thriving because he's helping with the second chances. He's helping with the connection on the passes, he's helping push the pace. Like that stuff all is all giddy oriented. I just don't know how much it it Capital M means when the teams that you're beating are the Nets and the Jazz and the Heat, the Nuggets without Jokic, the Kings without Sabonis, the Pacers without Halliburton. The Lakers wins are what they are and one of those is just like as emphatic a statement win against the team as we've seen all season in terms of the 143 or whatever they hung on the Lakers. Everything else in that 9 and 5, especially the 9 is kind of okay, is very March basketball.

[Justin Varier]

I Think you're just illuminating why I've always saw the vision with Giddy to begin with because he is as big as a power forward and as long as the shooting is there enough and I don't think he needs to hit. 38% of his threes for an entire season are shot above his head like he has in March. I think he just needs to be a credible shooter in order to draw enough of attention to open things up because the space is why all of these guys are thriving. We're going to talk about Kobe White eventually after we get through this 30 minute monologue on Josh Giddy. But I would say the rebounding is there and it's so wild watching him drive into the teeth of the defense and basically do a U turn around the basket and then go and try to get a tip with his hands. He's very crafty and aggressive on the boards in a way that you would want from all of your guys, but you're getting that from your points guard is obviously huge. I think he's trying more defensively because frankly, I think he got shamed even with the Bulls earlier this season. I think they're being better about using him against bigger players because he does have size, but he isn't particularly athletic. And also his hands have been better. He's using that kind of read of the court in order to create steals, which obviously sparks the break for this team. The biggest thing though was I think the fact that his usage rate was actually lower this season than when it was with the Thunder gives me hope because I thought he was someone who would have to be on the ball because of the shooting issues in order to make an impact. If anything, the ball is pinging and he's often the recipient and. Or the spark that starts that chain reaction.

[Big Woz]

Yeah, it's nice that he's realized that he can't break people down off the dribble. Like that's a good. But it's another way of saying it's realization though. It's like a sort of like self awareness where it's like, you know what? That's not how my skills are best served. And like I said, like, I really do think he's become an additive player. Like it, it. It feels obvious that that's the truth in a way that I just again, didn't see as obvious. Now in the future, particularly when you talking about a future contract, do you pay him like a starting wing? Do you?

[Justin Varier]

I think he's gonna get a lot of money regardless.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, they're Gonna give him a lot of money. That's. That's for damn sure.

[Big Woz]

That's where I'm just like anything above like 25 a year for Josh Giddy seems nuts.

[Rob Mahoney]

If the Chicago Bulls give him a contract, I'm going to take the over on 25 totally.

[Justin Varier]

Especially because he's hitting the mark at the right time.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, like, to me he's still a player who, who raises a lot of questions as far as the construction of your team.

[Big Woz]

He's. He's a firm starter now. So like starters should get 25 million.

[Justin Varier]

I think he's like on the level of Kobe White and like White also playing above his head. I think they're above that average starters.

[Big Woz]

I don't.

[Justin Varier]

You don't think Josh. Oh, that's.

[Big Woz]

You think Josh Giddy's as good as Kobe White? You really think that?

[Justin Varier]

I think he's better because he does more. I think White is an electric scorer and he has been on another level this year.

[Big Woz]

But I also think he doesn't even valuable. His one thing is a more valuable NBA trait.

[Justin Varier]

I think it's easier to find his level of scoring because I also think like he comes and goes. He also hasn't put together a full season. He's been able to kind of work his way in the background because Levine takes a lot of the arrows and then he'll pop and be like Kobe White. Like to that point, like when Levine first got traded, White looked awful. He's just like kicked in of late. And I think it's hard to also like separate the two because I do think they're both a product of the system in the ball movement because both of those guys do a lot of different things. Like White off the ball is good. And I think the thing that stood out to me, Rob, is like White using his athleticism and his speed to almost build this ball handling bag has been just like a revelation.

[Rob Mahoney]

He's looked craftier and craftier, honestly. Like he does use that quick burst to his advantage, but he isn't like an end to end kind of score necessarily. It's a lot of stop and go. It's a lot of changes in direction. It's a lot of manipulation to the point that, yeah, he put up 29, 5 and 4 this month on 50, 38, 88 splits. That's fucking ridiculous. He also, as far as mirage caveats go, it's just all of a sudden like getting to the free throw line at Giannis like levels. I don't know that that's always going.

[Justin Varier]

To be the thing.

[Rob Mahoney]

I also think Kobe White, who I do like quite a bit and I do think is better than Josh Giddy. If I were to like pick and choose who I would want on, on my team, hypothetically, I would pick Kobe White. That said, perfect March player, because he's just good enough that you can't look past him. If you like gloss over the scouting report that day and don't really pay attention to how Kobe White plays and just kind of roll into the United center to play the Bulls, that dude will torch you. And so this is, this is kind of his time, right? This is his moment where teams are looking ahead on the schedule, they're resting guys, they don't have the best defenders out there. He's been awesome. He's also been awesome.

[Justin Varier]

I don't see it. You don't see it?

[Rob Mahoney]

I see him being quite a good player. I don't see him being a 30 point scorer who's outscoring like anti Jason Tatum and KD. But he's a good player, really good.

[Justin Varier]

Here's. I think the ultimate question is if the, the Bulls bring this construction back, this loose idea of their team.

[Rob Mahoney]

Don't do it. Well, don't do it.

[Justin Varier]

I'm asked. This is the question, is White giddy Bozellus draft pick and then go from there? Is that a team that could do anything more than being a perennial play in because they are kind of falling. I'm not allowed to talk about Portland anymore. We got so mad. And what's funny is Rob and I came away from that podcast being like, man, we actually had a lot more material on the Blazers that we could have talked about. We're not talking about Portland, but I'm only using them as an example. Like, they played above their heads, but now they've gotten themselves in the position where they can't draft a star, most likely unless they get lottery luck. Bulls kind of in a similar situation where they're down in the lottery odds. Like, what's the path now was you see anything with this?

[Big Woz]

Becoming an all Star, that's the pathway because we know Kobe.

[Justin Varier]

You think he has that potential?

[Big Woz]

I, I mean, I, I have not been convinced of that. I, I'm loving what I'm seeing. Um, I just think he's like, bigger than I really understood that he was. And, and that like, combined with his skill has been really cool to watch. I just, I just know Josh Giddy and Kobe White aren't all stars. Like teams that like, are out of the playing mix all the time like where you could permanently say that they have an All Star on. So I don't see that here. And unless it's a guy that they're going to draft or is already on the roster, it feels like Kobe White is kind of a known quantity. He's not going to turn into a perennial All Star. I don't believe Josh Giddey is either. And so where is this level of high level of production going to come from? From?

[Rob Mahoney]

I honestly don't know. I think they've improved in one way that is very material to us, which is if the Bulls are going to be a playing team, at least be a fun playing team, at least be a team that has a very charismatic style. Jv, I'll give you credit on this. You were ahead of the curve of the Bulls as a league pass enterprise. Are they, are they good? They're better. They're improving. I like, I completely buy that there is a material level of improvement here for some of the core players involved. Giddey, Kobe, White, Bouzel is obviously just getting time to run. Also getting some like real live bodies in the back end of the rotation has helped a lot. Like Tre Jones before he went down with the foot injury. I have no idea what has happened with Kevin Herder season and why he was a train wreck for the Kings despite its system. That was tailor made to his strengths. Then he shows up in Chicago and.

[Big Woz]

All of a sudden rejuvenated.

[Rob Mahoney]

Completely rejuvenated.

[Big Woz]

Didn't even get picked in the white boy draft.

[Rob Mahoney]

He did not. But didn't deserve it at that point in the season. Did not deserve it.

[Big Woz]

Worst season by far. Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

So yeah, there's some good things happening here. There's also some March flukery. There's also just like I just don't believe that the Bulls are an above average defensive team. I don't believe that this collection of players is that.

[Justin Varier]

So that's where I'm going next here. I do think the tension point, if you will allow me this very writerly word that I keep relying on, is Vucevich, who is going to be a free agent after next season. So he has one year left, $21.5 million on the books. It would be nice if they had a real thumper or rim protector back there because I do think they need someone to clean things up. But it does feel like their offense needs someone who needs his stretch, who has his stretch and his ability to move the ball. And I don't know how you get one of those guys in one because those are very valuable players that don't just come along. Maybe they draft someone in this year's draft. You could. We should peruse Kyle Mann and Dane Chow's draft guide to find that guy. But that's what they need in order to take the next level in this basic construction.

[Big Woz]

Do they need Patrick Williams having his worst shooting season of his career in year five?

[Rob Mahoney]

I could have stopped you. I could have stopped you at Patrick Williams, frankly.

[Justin Varier]

$18 million for the next 30 years on the books.

[Rob Mahoney]

But if you, if you have the chance to give that guy a player option though, you just gotta do it.

[Big Woz]

He's shooting 38% on the season. Like, bro, what is that? Like you don't do any shot creation whatsoever. How are you shooting 38%?

[Rob Mahoney]

Wow.

[Justin Varier]

I think we're all saying similar things though. I think it's mostly a mirage. I probably believe in the bones of it a little bit more.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think that's fair.

[Big Woz]

I'm too high on those bones.

[Rob Mahoney]

I do think you're right to bring up Vuch though, Justin, that that is a bit of a conundrum. The kind of player that he is and what his function within the offense is not so easily replaced. And I say that not just because of the stretch you're talking about, but if you're going to run multiple actions, ball screen after ball screen after ball screen, you need someone who can pop, you need someone who can reset quickly. You need someone who can float to the free throw line and hit, hit a little push shot. He's got all that stuff in a way that if you just get like a rim runner, you're not going to be able to find it so easily. So bigs like Vuch don't just come along. That said, he also kind of hampers them and handcuffs them in certain ways.

[Justin Varier]

Yeah, it's an interesting idea that I'm sure we'll keep talking about on and on again more than most podcasts. Whatever. Deign to.

[Big Woz]

Yeah, I'm sure it's a self fulfilling prophecy, I'm sure. Meaning I'm going to keep bringing it up.

[Rob Mahoney]

We're trying to find the person that did this.

[Justin Varier]

Need a hot dog costume? Well, I'm wise. I'm actually a little surprised that you aren't as in on the Bulls because I think there was a point where they were playing a five white guys starting lineup.

[Big Woz]

Well, I mean obviously I'm into that part of it.

[Rob Mahoney]

Do you want to explain the context, Justin?

[Justin Varier]

They're just plain five white guys.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, including Kobe White always.

[Justin Varier]

That's the bit.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's the joke.

[Justin Varier]

I feel like I've seen them play five white guys independently.

[Rob Mahoney]

Have they? The bit. The versions of this bit that I have seen involve Kobe White. So, you know, just sort of having a little fun out here in March.

[Justin Varier]

Maybe it was Lonzo and I got hey, wow.

[Big Woz]

Kind of counts. He kind of counts.

[Justin Varier]

Well, I said that, not me.

[Big Woz]

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[Justin Varier]

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[Big Woz]

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[Rob Mahoney]

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[Justin Varier]

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[Big Woz]

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[Rob Mahoney]

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[Justin Varier]

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[Big Woz]

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[Justin Varier]

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[Rob Mahoney]

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[Justin Varier]

Why don't we move along to another white guy who's who's doing great in March? That's Austin Reeves who this month 245 and 65 rebounds, 6 assists. Basically been surprisingly one of the Lakers best players wise. Are you surprised that Reaves not only is doing this well but doing this well post Luka trade when we thought a lot of this offense, a lot of what they were going to do was going to flow through Luka and Lebron.

[Big Woz]

No I'm not because honestly I think he can be complimentary when he wants to but he has this on ball capability, this pick and roll capability. Like you can't go on the screens on him, he'll kill you. You know he has the 40 million up fake stop and starts in the mid range to draw, you know to do the foul baiting stuff. And he's just a really smart player. He just straight up is and so I think why Austin Reaves is important too is that LeBron is 40 and Luka, I don't think like, you know, the Luka from three years ago who could just monopolize possessions, I don't think he's in the good enough shape yet to do that all the time. And I think it is going to be incumbent upon Luka to like keep himself in good sort of windedness, is get off the ball, space out for Austin Reaves at some point. Let Austin and LeBron work their pick and roll situation. Let Austin working with Jackson Hayes and space around it just so you can take over in the biggest spots. And you haven't had to do it from first, from the freaking tip off until, you know, down five minutes left in a close game, in a playoff game. Right. And so I believe in what Austin is doing. I think this is who he is. I think he's been showing this basically since the Memphis series, man. Like, this is who this guy is.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah. For a dude who's only been in the league for a couple years, Austin Reaves has lived a lot of lives as a basketball player, has played a lot of different roles in a lot of different kinds of lineups, managed to do a ton of different things. And this to me is the perfect intersection of sort of flow and opportunity. Right. He is playing off of two creators, as you said, was LeBron at his age. Luka with his current state where even when he drives, is driving more to draw fouls and to create for other people than to say finish at the rim. Austin Reeves is the the best driver on the team, period. I would say overall in terms of like end to end driving and finishing, probably the best driver on the team. Also one of the best cutters on the team. Also someone that both LeBron and Luka have very clearly decided we want to embolt in this guy. We want to hit ahead to every opportunity. He is kind of the first thing out of the cannon that's starting every Lakers fast break. And so the fact that those two guys who are visionary passers can just throw sweet outlet passes, that works for everybody. And it just led to Austin Reeves playing I think overall the best sustained basketball of his entire career. And that's that and the contextual factors that are making him a compliment to Both Luka and LeBron, that's kind of why I believe this is more than just a mirage. I think. I think there's the bones of something actually real here.

[Justin Varier]

My working theory with Reaves has always been that he has juice, but not elite level juice. And so he always has needed some help in order to get that extra edge. A lot of it has been. And he popped early on in part because he has an economy of movement. He makes quick decisions like he doesn't think. When he gets the ball, he's instantly going. And because he griffs the shit out of every fucking possession. And those grift, those grifting moves, I think play a role because then defenders get in their head like, oh, I can't leave my arm out. And that gave him a little bit of space in order to get downhill. He's not the biggest athlete, but he's a good athlete. And I do think you have seen that start to pop yet again because teams are so dedicated on stopping Luca, stopping LeBron, especially when they're both out there. That has given Reeves the edge to do what he's done. I've always thought he was a good scorer. He's showing that yet again now that he has the extra bit of space. I think the, dare I say, tension point yet again is does this team need more offense? Like, do they need to outscore teams? Because obviously the defense is starting to lack. Part of that is because LeBron's been out of the lineup. Part of that is just as much basketball. Maybe they're saving themselves for the playoffs, but I do think if they want to be legit, the defense has to be at least like, you know, better than league average. And I don't know how they get there with Reeves, LeBron at 40, 41 going into next season.

[Rob Mahoney]

And Luca, they probably do need a little more offense in that way. And look, this Lakers team I think is going to undergo some renovation in the off season. Overall, this is still a post Luca trade team that had to reconfigure itself on the fly. The reality though is if you have that roster and you're going to try to win with defense, which is what they've mostly done since the Luca trade until recently when things have started to slip. As you said, that requires playing a really taut, connected, high energy style of defense. Like, you don't have Anthony Davis back there anymore, you have Jackson Hayes, and that's only on the days that he's healthy. And so everything else has to work. Everything else has to be connected. And if one piece is off, and this is, I think as fair a place to criticize Reaves as anywhere. Like, he does play with energy, but is a defender who can get picked up, nasty work, he will get targeted and exploited. That's a Real thing that you have to talk about with his game. And the Lakers at right now, today aren't always like so finely calibrated. They can make up for that every timeout. I think on their best days, clearly during their best stretches, they've been one of the better defenses over the last couple months. But it's hard to sustain that all the time. It's hard to keep that up in ways that I think maybe aren't just picking your spots and waiting for the playoffs, but are representative of just how difficult it is to defend the way that they do.

[Justin Varier]

I think the question is like, are they preserving themselves in order to hit another level in the playoffs? Because their top six seeding is virtually assured. They had a long Runway when they traded for Luka. Do you think like they're putting, they're easing off the gas pedal a little bit where they know that they'll have extra days of rest in order to execute this, or do you think these sorts of issues that their 20th defensively in March are going to carry into the playoffs?

[Big Woz]

Look, we like the bulls to allow 150 points to them in regulation shows that like you've taken a step back on defense in terms of the energy you're willing to put put out. The freaking pacers game where LeBron made that tip in at the end. I mean, Luka got blown by two times in the clutch for like with no effort. Like, it's just obvious collectively they showed that, all right, like when we're super connected and playing on a string, we can be good enough on defense to where we even sometimes look good on that end. But what that takes is maximum buy in and maximum effort from every single person on the floor. Like, nobody can take a possession off for that type of defense to work. And so I think they still have it in them and they're like a veteran laden group. Guys are going to be in their right spot come playoff time and execute their game plan. Like, you know, remember the Nuggets game where they're fronting Jokic and following them and being physical like that. Like, that team does not give up 150 points to the freaking Bulls in regulation, right? So, you know, there's like a difference in the gears they can hit defensively. Not that they're going to end up being as good as like a Rockets or something like that on defense, but they're going to be like, like respectable. It's not going to be a freaking turnstile. And I think they'll be fine enough on defense.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, especially because they have a bit of an opening given the teams that are fighting in that tier wise, like, yeah, they're not going to be as good as the Rockets on defense, but you watch the Nuggets some nights they can't guard anybody.

[Big Woz]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

In, in certain games, you know, we've talked about the Grizzlies and where they are. Who knows? The one exception to that, Justin, maybe another one of our mirage teams that is storming up the bottom of the west and I gotta say, really feels like a team that's peaking at the right time.

[Justin Varier]

They're definitely fighting for a lot of things these days, including that succeed in the West. But first and foremost, the Detroit Pistons, which. That was spicy.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah. Pablo Bridge only getting involved.

[Justin Varier]

Yes. Also I don't know if you caught the video of that Piggioni as he was warring with JB Bickers that both of them ultimately got ejected in that seven person ejection that erupted last night. He tried to like do the very Euroleague like Euro player thing of putting his arm around the assistant coach while you could clearly see he was badgering somebody and the coach was like, get the fuck off me. Which I really appreciated, I have to say. We're going to talk about the Wolves, but I do want to talk about the fight first and foremost.

[Rob Mahoney]

Sure. Yeah.

[Justin Varier]

Like Isaiah Stewart. Okay. Sometimes I think he's on the court because he wants to hurt someone.

[Big Woz]

Like he's a maniac. This, this, his name is Beef Stew. Like this. Is this what he's out there to do? Like he's.

[Justin Varier]

You think the beef is. Refers to him wanting to start beefs?

[Big Woz]

Yes.

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, oh. I thought it was the build.

[Justin Varier]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

I thought it was Shoulders alone.

[Justin Varier]

He was Beef Stew.

[Big Woz]

He's constantly in beef. That's.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, in that case, Justin is our Beef Stew. There's no doubt about that.

[Justin Varier]

I don't know if I'm at that level because I don't know if you saw the scrum. Like. So Holland starts shit with. With DiVincenzo or actually if you want to, if you go all the way back, he. It was Stewart starting with divincenza, but then Holland got involved.

[Big Woz]

But he's his beef protege. He's like when he under the wing.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Justin Varier]

When Holland was on the ground and there was a scrum forming and clearly Reed and Holland were being buried. That's when Stewart decides to jump over the mosh pit like he's a running back trying to score at the goal line just to fucking fight Divincenzo. That guy's a mess. Madman.

[Rob Mahoney]

That whole fight was just like every incendiary element you could pack on a court in one space. And I put Dante DiVincenzo in that too. Like that. That dude is not afraid to get into a scuffle with just about anybody. And so, yeah, you, you put, you put enough of that in one space, you light a match, you walk away, you see what happens. Apparently it's this.

[Justin Varier]

But I appreciated the Wolves not only like standing up to the tough guy stuff that obviously Detroit tends to bring out of a lot of different teams. I think we're half the league at this point where they've tried to start fights or actually did successfully start a. But the Wolves came back, they threw a goddamn haymaker in the second half. Edwards looked incredible and I have to say, like, Jaden McDaniels might have played the best two point game that I've seen in, in history. Yeah, that guy was literally like just skying in the air for offensive rebounds. And at a certain point, the broadcast was like Jaden McDaniels from the ceiling because he was like Sting descending from the top of the arena in order to get offensive rebounds. He's been on another level throughout this entire munch.

[Rob Mahoney]

I feel like someone reminded him was like, hey, actually you're incredibly large and have a huge wingspan. Maybe, maybe you don't have to be just a wingstopper. Maybe you could do other things that combo forwards do that the more versatile players in the league do. And all of a sudden, yeah, scoring is never going to be the Jaden McDaniel skill set. It's never going to be the calling card. But you do enough of these supplementary things, all of a sudden you're just in a totally different class of players.

[Big Woz]

I mean, the Wolves on paper have the most physically imposing team in the NBA in terms of the collective size. Look at the front court. It's not even just length. It's like, these guys are diesel. Like these guys are. And they play that like Julius Randle, for all of his flaws, he plays a physical style of basketball. Even Nas Reed, who, you know, he's taking a lot of threes, but when he wants to, he can bang with the best of them on both ends of the floor. And then of course, Rudy has his 9 foot 5 wingspan or whatever. And again, Jaden McDaniels a long, huge wing player. Anthony Edwards, big, strong, physical guy on both ends of the floor. And so I think they're finally playing to their strengths and to the personnel, which is nice because the Defense was pretty disappointing to start the season and things are finally coalescing. I think this is because a lot of, you know, there was a lot of the hipster takes when they traded Carlton's.

[Rob Mahoney]

Like they could be just as good.

[Big Woz]

As they were last year, which I don't think it wasn't just you though. It was a few people that had that like. And I don't think that they've shown that quite that. I don't think they've been even in this stretch in March and all of that. I don't think they've been as good as the team that they were last year, which is damn freaking good. But shoot, man, like a little notch and a half below that is. That's a nice team. If they played like this all year, they'd be in the top four or three in the conference.

[Rob Mahoney]

So what they have put forth 11 and three in March. Fifth on offense, third on defense. You can pick a lot of reasons why that's been the case and why things have turned around. Jaden McDaniels, we already said one of them, but there's kind of like a choose your own adventure thing here for us in terms of what you guys want to talk about. Mike Conley lives. Huge development for the Wolves.

[Big Woz]

Still alive.

[Rob Mahoney]

Julius Randle, I will say, playing some spirited team oriented basketball. Really and truly spirited, team oriented basketball. They got Dante DiVincenzo back, who's out for most of February. If I remember correctly, he's been balling out. I think they've really found something in Jalen Clark and something that they actually really needed. And then also Rudy Gobert, particularly since the All Star break, I think has been dynamite playing. Also playing bigger and more dominant than he has at any point this season. What, what sings to you guys out of that group that we should dig into?

[Justin Varier]

I think they just have their identity back. It's Edwards doing star shit with the attacking, hounding dog perimeter defenders. And I think that's why Clark has popped so much. And Nikhil Alexander Walker is also playing well of late, or at least he did against Detroit. It just seems like they have reestablished their perimeter defense which has made things on like easier on Rudy, which is my biggest critique of Rudy is that like he's getting paid in order to be a defense unto himself and he needs all these perimeter defenders in order to make his life easier. But having said that, it's all working in concert in the way that it did last season.

[Rob Mahoney]

The great Brit Robson, I've seen him referring to Jalen Clark's assignments as being in Clark County Jail. And I just think we need to get that. We need to get that out into the ether as far as humanly possible.

[Big Woz]

For me, it's the Randall portion of it because it feels like he's doing his Randle stuff with a more emphasis on the past than previously had been the case. I think he's gotten it out of his head that he needs to drop 30 or 25 in order to get a nice new deal. And what you need to do is be an indispensable team player and you will get paid, bro. And that's what I've been like when he does his little bully ball thing. A lot of times it feels like he's doing it to draw, too. Like he's doing it to manipulate the defense and spray out the shooters, which, like, okay, like, now you're. I'm starting to be interested Julius Randle, jab, step, dribble, dribble, you know, flailing and throwing something up and shooting, step back threes. I'm not that interested in that player Julius Randle, who is, like, just mauling every single defensive mismatch when a little guy is on him, getting to the line, you know, spraying out the shooters, being a nice little transition player like that guy, where he's putting all of his physical gifts to use for the betterment of the team and not just his individual scoring output. Yeah, I'm interested in that. So the Randle part is what I'm watching because he's had like seven straight bad playoffs in a row. Has he ever been good in the playoffs in his life? Can he be good in a way that's complimentary to the guys that's on this team in the postseason? That's what I'm interested to watch.

[Rob Mahoney]

I hope so. I think that playmaking is a huge part of that. And he's still. He's always going to be a high turnover creator in that way, and he's going to throw some balls away. But overall, if the productive, like, if the playmaking is productive enough, I don't mind a couple of sloppy passes. I don't mind getting caught in traffic now and again. Ultimately, this is a team that was five and eight in February when Randle did not play, and they were 11 and 3 in March when he did play. And in some ways it's more complicated than that. And in some ways, it's not like, I think what he's brought to them this month has been really, really huge. And whether you believe in that to continue is a fair question. As was circled around, like, he just has not had the playoff resume to think he can be this guy all the time. But I certainly hope he can.

[Justin Varier]

I think they made the trade obviously for financial reasons. That's why they got rid of Kat's big old contract. But I think it was also a bet on Edwards taking the next step and leaning into him more in terms of the long term vision of the team. He is clearly our North Star. Let's build the best possible version of team around him. And they didn't bring Julius Randle in, presumably in order to jack a bunch of shots. And like, in order to earn a new contract, it was to help with the ball handling, to facilitate a little bit more. That's why Conley has been such a good caddy for Edwards and his development is because he kind of just like does all of the adult shit that you need from that. Randall won't do all of that, but the playmaking is something that he desperately needs and you've seen it kind of trickle down from there. I think the big question though is, have we recalibrated our thoughts on the Wolves this season in terms of what they can do in the playoffs? Right now they're half game in back of the warriors for that six spot was, do you think one, who's your favorite? Now, we do this practically every podcast, but like, who's the favorite for the sixth spot? And two, do you think the Wolves, like, how far do they ultimately get in the playoffs?

[Big Woz]

I still think it's gotta be the warriors because again, they just look freaking mega motivated and they look really good when Jimmy Draymond and Steph take the court together.

[Rob Mahoney]

Like they also, if the Grizzlies keep losing, the answer could be both.

[Big Woz]

Yeah, facts. Good point. And so I still think it's the warriors, but what I will say, man, is I don't know. I feel like Minnesota is definitely the scarier of the two as playoff opponents because of that physicality that I mentioned. And Aunt Edwards just, there's always the feeling that he's capable of even taking it further than even what he's already shown. And like, as much as I love Jimmy, I love Steph. We kind of know what they're going to go out and do and it's gonna be. There's gonna be varying degrees of really good to great. But like, it feels like with Ant, he could just go into the freaking atmosphere at some point. And that's why I think they're the scarier of the Two, but I think Golden State will ultimately get, you know, that succeed.

[Rob Mahoney]

They're both pretty scary. I think this could easily be the kind of year where we look up and a six or seven seed is in the Western Conference finals. Right? Like that somebody kind of stormed up the other side of the bracket that doesn't have the thunder on it. Whether it is the warriors, whether it is the Wolves. I mean, the Clippers have been super competitive and really fun to watch. And Kawhi Leonard is an absolute fucking buzzsaw right now. I think the difference with Minnesota is they've sort of separated themselves from the team we saw at times this season, which is super competitive in high leverage games against quality opponents. Right. Like they showed they can show up and just like beat the Nuggets, right? Like beat good teams on a regular basis into one that does that. But also just overall, as a general rule, is showing up for these games and delivering. And I really do think a lot of that is the defense you were talking about, Justin. Like getting back to the point of defensive stability where Rudy is a good backline anchor. We have all of these supporting parts on the perimeter who are doing their jobs. All of a sudden the Wolves look like the Wolves again.

[Justin Varier]

So we're saying the Wolves success in this month, not a mirage.

[Big Woz]

Not a mirage.

[Justin Varier]

We'll see about, like, long term in terms of this playoffs.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, I wouldn't want to play against them if, if, if I were one of these teams at the top of the bracket. I wouldn't want to see the Wolves.

[Justin Varier]

Unfortunately, that's like half the west at this point. I'm like going over my scary rankings and it's basically every goddamn team in the West. But let's wrap it there. We have something special for you on Thursday. We have an entire podcast, the whole shebang, devoted to one team, and that is our team of the season. What team is that? You'll have to tune in on Thursday, but we not only are going to talk at length about that team, also have a special guest from that team. So tune in on Thursday to check that out. But we'll be back then. We'll talk to you then. Thank you, Isaiah Blakely. Thank you to Ben Cruz. We'll talk to you next time. Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 + and present in D.C. gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chatincut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland, hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or 800-32755 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text.