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Jaren Jackson Jr. Goes to Utah, Harden Wants Out, and Drug-Testing Stories | Real Ones
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That's clinic with a K. Clinic Kids is registered 501c3 nonprofit. What's Poppin Real Ones Logan Murdoch here, Howard Beck and Rajabel and a few we had a whole podcast ready for you. And then Jaren Jackson Jr gets traded to the Utah Jazz for three first round picks. So me and Howard first round got on the line, did a quick topper for that and then we talked about all things involved on the trade. What does this mean for Utah? This is an end of an era for Memphis. And then we get into the rest of the pod where we talk about the James Harden trade request. This is a wild trade season so far. We get into the trade request, we get into a little Giannis update, we get into a lot of stuff. Great Tuesday episode and real onesmailback gmail.com real ones mailbag gmail.com realones mailbag gmail.com tap in ah ah. All of it. Steve play the theme music. What's poppin Real ones Logan Murdoch here, Howard Beck there. It would not be trade season if we didn't already have a show in the can, only for a huge trade to make us come back to the podcasting mics. So Jared Jackson Jr. Has been traded to the Utah Jazz in exchange for Walter Clayton Jr. Kyle Anderson, Taylor Hendricks, George Niang and three future first round picks. Now we don't know the protections yet on the first rounders yet. I'm sure that'll come out. Maybe by the time this pod comes out. We don't know what years that those first round picks come in, but on the surface at least right now and this is what we're we're working our way through. In a era where picks are probably as valuable as they have ever been and for a team that has seemingly been tanking for the last four or five years, why would the Utah Jazz make this deal at this time for this player, Howard Beck?
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C
Oh man, we had made a really good podcast before this broke. 10 minutes later. At least I got to eat lunch first. This is fascinating from both standpoints, right, because the Grizzlies have now firmly, firmly signaled the end of an era, whatever that era was of John Moran and Jaren Jackson Jr. And clearly John Morant is going to go at some point too. If not this week, then in the off season. And this is the Jazz who did their own tear down by jettisoning Donovan Mitchell Rudy Gobert four years ago, now deciding it's time to hit the the gas and be good again. The why now why this why this player is really interesting. Logan Jake Fiser did provide some details on the picks. So just to to get this accounting done first, according to Jake Fiser, the Jazz are trading their most favorable 2027 first, which would be either their own or Cleveland's or Minnesota's. I'd say likely Utah's. That's one pick. They're also trading the Lakers 2027 first round pick and the Sun's 2031 first round pick. That Sun's pick in 2031. Like eye of the beholder stuff here. But like I've I've tended to think that all of the Suns future picks are pretty valuable so 2031 from the Suns I think that's that's probably the best of these. So there's the three picks. Bunch of players flying back and forth in all this Logan, but Obviously Jaren Jackson Jr. Is the only one that really really matters. I would like it for the Jazz more if they didn't have Markkanen and Walker Kessler because Lowry market is not a small forward and he's got to be a power forward. That's where Jaren Jackson Jr. Usually plays next to a bigger center next to him. So does this mean they're trading Walker Kessler? Does this mean they're trading Lowry Markkanen? Does this mean they're going to try to have market and play the three when all are healthy? Obviously in the near term no big deal because Kessler's out for the season but I'm not sure. Like look it we're doing this on the fly in the moment and there's a lot for the Jazz to explain, sort out. Maybe there are more deals between now and Thursday. Maybe they clean it up in the off season. But I don't think that's the alignment you want. Is Kessler, Jaren Jackson Jr. And marketing together. But we'll see. Jaren Jackson Jr. 26 years old, perennial defensive. Perennial all defensive team guy. Perennial defensive player of the year candidate in various levels. And the modern. He's perfect. Modern big in that he can shoot the three and he can protect the rim. Right. That's a really valuable thing to have in a big. So he's got his flaws. Rebounding among them, staying healthy among them, but fouling by all accounts fouling among them. But a really nice piece. He's not putting the Jazz like over the top, but the Jazz are, you know, they're just still climbing out of the rebuild that they began four years ago.
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Yeah. That they've been stubbornly not necessarily really trying to get out of. It seems like this is just a perpetual rebuild. And I think, you know, I'm just thinking through right now. I mean Jaren, Jaren Jackson Jr. Is at the stage of he is who he is right now. He does have all of his flaws. He's not going to take you to the next level. I just. If you're going to build through the draft, which that seems like they've been able to do fairly well. Right. If when they do try. Right. With Isaiah Collar is a really good player. Right. Ace Bailey has had his moments. You know, this this season. Cody Williams, after a rookie season that was pretty disappointing, is kind of coming into his own. Right. Like this. I redundant here. We always talk about pushing the button way too early or way too fast. This seems like a weird middle ground for Utah. Right. Because it just. Even if they were fully healthy right now with all the pieces in play, it seems like a fairly average team. Right. Like maybe a playing team. I just don't see what this doesn't give you the leap that you would want if you are the Utah Jazz at this point and you gave away picks. So it seems just a little weird at this point for them to give up on what they are trying to do where it seems like if they just keep their picks in line, they can build through the draft which is probably the most incentivized way that you can do it in the modern NBA in the apron era. So like that that's what's kind of confounding to me right now where this new era makes you have to pick a side. Either you're Going to draft, build your team through the draft or you're. And make ancillary trades around it or you're going to go in on a player. This kind of has a middle ground to it. Howard?
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C
Yeah, I would just say this, and I'm looking it up as we speak because again, we are doing this on the fly. As of Bobby Marx's last accounting of this several months ago, the Jazz had the third most first rounders in the NBA. Incoming picks, 11, 11 firsts, 7 seconds. And then I think they had one outgoing first. Oh, of course, the one this year, potentially the protected one to Oklahoma City. So they had a surplus. They're good, they're fine. They can send out these three and still have eight incoming. I think they're fine in that regard. I, you know, and when it comes to like Jaren Jackson Jr. As a guy, you're going not all in on like three firsts plus a bunch of like, you know, random players. Mostly random players. Like I, it's, it's not like you've emptied the cupboard. Is he the guy putting you over the top?
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No.
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Is he perennial MVP candidate who's going to put you in the playoffs by himself? No. But the Jazz, operating in a small market, you're either going to hope to get really lucky. Maybe Ace Bailey becomes your superstar of the future. They got very fortunate in the past when they, you know, traded for the, for Donovan Mitchell's draft rights and he became a perennial all star. And I think he was drafted at what, 13, 15, somewhere in that range. You either got to get really lucky or you trade for a guy and you know, this is not a like with, for all their picks, they were never going to be a Giannis destination. Right? Giannis is probably not resigning there. So like who else are you going to go all in on? So by going that next tier or two down to guys who are simply perennial all stars as opposed to perennial all NBA or perennial MVP candidates, you assemble enough of those guys, right. We didn't know what marketing was going to become before they got him. And he's had, you know, some of the best years of his career there when he hasn't had fake injuries or actual injuries. And you combine Markkanen's scoring and playmaking with, at least for the moment, the defense and paint protection that you get from Jaren Jackson Jr. And Walker Kessler. Keante George has had a really nice season and really coming on as a young guard, young playmaker. You can start to see the outline of a team that, that can can do a lot at both ends and they still have plenty of picks to use. So I, I, I like again, I don't, I'm not convinced Lowry market is a full time three and I think that that compromises you defensively. But maybe they feel like they can get away with it because they're going to have enough defense behind them. Or maybe you start those guys and then throughout the game you're staggering. So it's only any two of those three I like. And again, like, there's going to be more to come. Logan. Right. Whether it's this week or in the off season, we can't judge too much what the Jazz's plans are in this exact moment because this is, they're obviously not done. The Suns won in 2031. Could be a lottery pick. We'll see the jazz pick in 2027. If they get what they want out of this, out of this trade, that one will not be in play or will not be very high. So it's, it may not be a ton of draft capital to give up when all is said and done and they didn't give up key players and they've still got, like I say, Keante George, Ace Bailey, other young guys who, you know, they're investing in. And sometimes the better move is to have some veterans around your youth to stabilize things a little. So if I'm going to try to, to rationalize it or, or do a little bit of mind reading of Justin Zanuck and Danny A and Austin Ange and any other ranges involved, that's how I would try to analyze it.
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All right, let's, let's go to the Memphis side of things. I mean, this is an end of an era of sorts, right? Where, and it's basically a throw in the towel of sorts. If you're, if, If Jaren Jackson Jr. Is, if you're, if you're, and there were some rumblings, you know, over the last couple of months, I know Ja got a lot of the headlines, you know, for, you know, his trade candidacy, but there were some underlying things about Jaren Jackson Jr. And maybe he might get let go if that's something that the Memphis Grizzlies were, were interested in because they want to just tear it down to the studs. And it's gonna be funny because later in the episode we're basically talking about them as if they're going to build around Jared Jackson Jr. And now that is no longer the case. But what are, where, what does this mean for the Grizzlies? Now, right Now, Jaren Jackson Jr. Is out of the building. Does that just basically mean that Jaw is going to be out of the building at some point too? Because at the very least it seems like they're. The Grizzlies have said this group can do as done as much as we think they're capable of doing. It's time to jump ship. What does this mean for the Memphis Grizzlies?
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You know, it was a fun era while it lasted at times and you know, they won one playoff series. That was the year they end up, they beating, end up beating Minnesota in the first round, lose to the warriors in six in the second round. The warriors going to win the championship in 2022. And that was in a lot of ways their, their high point, right? They had back to back 50 win seasons with John Morant, Jaren Jackson Jr Dylan Brooks, Desmond Bain. Like it was a good fun, tough team for a while there, but it was clear it had hit a ceiling. And listen, I'm going to give a lot of credit to Zach Kleiman in that front office because even a couple years ago, after they finished whatever it was, second, third in the west and it was like, oh, look, the Grizzlies, they're here, they're coming, they're young and they're still improving. Everybody else around the league when you talked was like, that's not a real big three. Like John Moran, really good. Jaren Jackson Jr. Really good. Desmond Bain, really good. But that's not exactly like your traditional kind of old school big three of, of like superstars. It seemed like there was going to be a hard ceiling on, on how far they could go. And there was. And to the Grizzlies credit, they recognized it. They do trade Bain last year, which signaled something, right? Some sort of pivot and it was a draft pick heavy trade. So you know, you could read into that that they were looking for a rebuild eventually. And we knew below the surface like all the Jaw stuff was, was, you know, kind of burbling the whole way and it's, and it seemed like it's inevitable. The irony of all this is that Jaw's going to be the last one out the door, right? He's the one who seemed to be the biggest flashpoint because of his decline in play, because of his attitude, because of his off court issues, because he was just pretty difficult and was clashing with coaches and yet he's the one still there because he's the hardest to trade. Like the value for Bane was obviously pretty clear in the moment, the value for Jaren Jackson Jr. You know, tons of teams wanted Jaren Jackson Jr. Nobody's sure if they want John Morant. And so that'll be the toughest move to make. It's the last move to make, but it's the inevitable move to make. Like, that's coming, whether it's in the next 48 hours or this off season that's coming.
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We talked about it later in the episode, so you guys will hear that conversation. But does this, if you're the Memphis Grizzlies, does this just give you just more incentives? Just take any trade that. Any trade offer that you get on Ja and just say, hey, we're cutting bait with him. We got the picks that we need. We're not trying. We don't need. We know where the writing is on the wall. We're not necessarily going to get any picks for him. We maybe get a player swap for him. Does this. Now that you've gotten Jaren Jackson Jr. Out, do you just trade job for whatever you can get?
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C
At this point, you may not have a choice. Logan, like, it's. It's the market is what it is. Like, at some point, you just have to take whatever the best thing on the table is. I don't know that there's anything on the table for John Morant right now.
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B
I mean, I haven't heard. I don't know. Maybe. And I'm. I'm purely speculating. But, you know, James Harden just act. Maybe he's a Clipper.
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C
You know, I guess he's a Clipper. I mean, this. This is some. Sometimes how problems get solved in the NBA is just you exchange headaches and, and move on and hope you get better out of the guy that you got than. Than the other team does. I'll be very curious to see what John Moran eventually goes for. And I wonder how he's feeling right about now that they've, you know, over the course of a couple of years, let Dylan Brooks walk, shipped out Desmond Maine, now Desmond Bane, now shipped out Jaren Jackson Jr. You know, clock's ticking. It's, you know, it's a bummer for Grizzlies fans, right? This was at its best, a really fun team. I was, I was hesitating to say likable. If you're a Grizzlies fan, it was likable. If you were the fan of teams they were playing, maybe not so likable because they were pretty brash. And the Dylan Brooks, Desmond Bain of it all was, you know, pretty Tough. But, hell, if you're a Grizzlies fan, this team was awesome at its best, and John Morant was just, you know, a nightly highlight show, and it didn't last very long. But again, I give. This is why I give the Grizzlies credit, Kleiman and the rest of that front office and ownership, because it's hard sometimes to give up on. On the vision we got. You know, we're a small market, we got a bunch of really good players. We just ride this as long as we can. And it's hard to decide to pivot, especially when it's a popular team with your fans, and when John Morant himself is really popular with your fans, it. It's tough to decide to tear it down. But it's the right thing to do as a basketball matter. I don't think there's even any question about that.
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Yeah, no, it's. You know, I remember being in Memphis during the height of Jobmania, and when you go into. When you went into that FedEx forum, it was the 2122 season. I went there one game when they played the Nets, I believe, and it was rocking. It was. It was a different level. And the way, you know, grit and grind has its own relationship with the city of Memphis, and they are stamped, they are legend, but there was a different type of relationship with the city of Memphis and. And job version of it. They loved him so much. I think they were a lot of ways frustrated with him, you know, especially towards the last few seasons. But it was an era nonetheless. And. But I think to your point, the model that the Grizzlies are using right now in quick pivots is the model that the rest of the NBA needs to adapt as we go forward. If you're. If you don't have it, you have to pivot. You're going to have to pivot because the costs within the apron era are just too much to bear if this just doesn't work. So I think you're going to see a lot of these types of movements going forward. A lot of just curious trades. This wasn't necessarily as curious as you might think it is, but if you're not winning, everybody's on the table unless it's a generational talent. And I think that's just what it's going to be going forward. What do you think? What does it say about the NBA? Howard, I always ask you, what does it say about the modern NBA and where we are right now?
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C
I think you just nailed it. Like you. You Cannot afford to overpay an okay team. You don't want to be in the apron of the second apron, paying luxury taxes, dealing with penalties, all this other stuff, just to have a team that is lucky to flirt with mid 40 win total or even get to 50 now and then, like this team had already reached its peak. That was as good as it was going to get. And could you have held on to Jaren Jackson Jr. Trade everybody else and try to kind of rebuild around him? And he's only 26. Sure, you've got enough of a timeline.
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There, but he's simply not good enough of a player to justify that, I don't think.
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C
No, he's like, he needs to be your, your second or third best player, probably your third best player. And hanging on to him. It's the same critique I've had of the Jazz this whole time hanging out of market and where it's like, well, he's not good enough to lead you either. And by the time you're good again, how old is he going to be? I'm going to find out the answer to that question pretty soon here, I guess because the Jazz are, are, you know, trying to turn the corner. They, they're, they're trying to win.
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B
Now about the Jazz though, like, that's the thing about Jazz right now. They have three guys that are just pretty good, you know? Pretty good.
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C
Yeah, right. And traded.
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Well, that's why, that's why the three picks are just like you got, you traded three picks for a guy that's just, okay, pretty good. I like him, right? And I know that they had trade, they had picks to spare, right? And you're just trying to will and deal and find something. But Jaren Jackson Jr. Is a guy that is proven at this point to be a really good basketball player and everybody knows what he is. He's not going into a situation where maybe he's the third best player. But like, it doesn't, it doesn't feel like an inspiring move, right? If you, if you're trying to inspire a fan base, it doesn't feel like that for the, if I'm the Jazz right now.
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No, no, Jaren Jackson Jr. Is not, not putting a lot of butts and seats on his own. He's not selling tickets. But Jazz fans are used to a lot of success. And so first and foremost, they just wanted like a good, competitive, hard playing team that's going to put some wins up. And after, you know, three, four seasons of losing, I think they're just kind of ready to win again. And some of this too. That's like, these things sometimes come from ownership where it's like, all right, I told you guys it was okay to tear down and rebuild, but we need to see results soon. I'm here. I'm hearing it from season ticket holders, I'm hearing it from corporate sponsors, whoever. It's time. And sometimes that's what rules the day. And maybe that's at play here a little bit too. You're right. Like Jaren Jackson Jr. Like, he's going to be a guy who, like, he raises the floor more than he raises the ceiling. And Walker Kessler is another guy like that. And even market into an extent is a guy like that. So what you're hoping is that Keonte George and Ace Bailey are the guys who raised the ceiling, right? The floor is coming up.
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B
But even that's like a three or four year process, right? Like, you get it. So this is my thing on that could be. So you have, we just talked about with the apron era, you now you have a even more high price roster, right? You have two guys that are making, I don't know, they're, they're making money, right? In a time where you would kind of want just to build through the draft and have a lot of cheap young talent. And when you trade a Jaren Jackson Jr. And you kind of accelerate that path where you're like, oh, we want to win. Jaren Jackson is going in there like, I want to win in the next couple of years. I just came from Memphis. We have had a lot of postseason success, but you're still on the same timeline as a Keante George, as an Isaiah Collier and as a, you know, all these pieces coming together. That's why I'm kind of like weird about the move. Like, you're still on a four year path whether you have Jaren Jackson Jr. Or not. And then you're going to get somebody who is used to winning and then all of a sudden he's not winning anymore. And the goal, like, I don't know how long the Jazz are going to be able to do this. I mean, obviously, long as they have picks to spare, but they're, they're like 15 and 35 right now. There's nothing inspiring about this deal or for next year or the year after that unless these players come into the fold. Like, that's why I'm just like, okay, you made a, you dealt for Jaren Jackson Jr. What's next? What are you guys going to do? Like, you got to start Somewhere.
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Yeah, I guess so. You got to start somewhere, I guess.
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I guess the Jazz are just an uninspiring team all the way around right now. And this is just kind of. I guess this deal just added to that in my eyes.
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This is why I say I want to see what happens next. Like, do they do anything else between now and Thursday? What do they do this off season? Like, this is obviously not the final move. This is. We have been going down a certain road here. We're tired of that road. It kind of sucks. We're ready to start, you know, turning the corner here and doing something different. Let's. Let's try winning. Let's try adding good players instead of just subtracting. And it's, it's step one there, there will be others to come, I'm sure. So can't judge it until we see the kind of. The totality of whatever the vision is. But you know, the people in that front office, Justin Zanuck, Danny and Johnson, like, they've got a pretty decent track record in various places of building. I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt here. I know Jaren Jackson Jr. Is not blowing your. Your doors off there, Logan, but I.
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Mean, it is a Kevin Garnett in 08. It's not Kevin Garnett no. 8, you know, or 07. Excuse me. But you know, hey, well, it's, it's, it's. Yeah. I mean, here's the thing. Danny Ains is a made man and he's moving like one. And it remains to be seen if that is for better or for worse. So we'll see what happens. Man, let's take a quick break and we will get you to the rest of the show that we recorded before this trade went down. The ringer NBA show is brought to you by Fanduel. Get in on the NBA action at any time with live betting on FanDuel from the first whistle until the final buzzer. Fanduel is your home for live betting. Let's take a look at the slate Nuggets Pistons. That's going to be a really fun one. I'm going to take the over on points, rebounds and assists for Jokic and I'm going to take the overall points for Cade Cunningham. I think I'm going to take the Pistons outright to win that game. Why not Knicks, Wizards? I think I'm going to take the. Let's take the Wizards in the upset. Why not? Then I'm going to take the over for Sar on points and rebounds. He's going to have a heck of a game. Lakers, Nets. I think I'm going to take them. The Lakers. They didn't look great so I don't feel great about that. They didn't look great at MSG a couple nights ago, so I'm not really confident in that. But you know, Lakers, Hawks, Heat going to take the Hawks, Celtics, Mavs going to take the over on points and rebounds for Cooper Flag. That was exciting because FanDuel is giving new customers 200 bonus bets if your first five dollar bet wins. So just visit FanDuel.com RingerMBA to sign up today. Play your game with FanDuel, official sports betting partner of the NBA. Let's see, 21 years and older and present in select states or 18 older and present in DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. First online real money wager only five dollars. First deposit required. Bonus issued is non withdrawable bonus bets which expire seven days after receipt. Restrictions apply. See terms@sportsbook.fanduel.com Got a gambling problem? Call 1-800- gambler or visit rg-help.com, call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org backslash chat.
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B
What's poppin Real ones. Logan Murdoch here, Roger Bill there. Howard Beck in the cut. We're going to do this for a second time. The Clippers and James Harden are at a very surprising and yet not surprising impasse. They are looking for trade partners right now, a few days before the trade deadline. This A lot of weird stuff happened. I'm glad Howard's on the call right now so we can kind of parse through this stuff. So like last night, Chris Mannix reports that the Cavaliers and the Clippers are advanced discussions on a deal that would send James Harden to Cleveland exchange for Darius Garland. And this comes on the heels of Harden not being in the lineup for the Clippers game on Monday and Ty Lou saying that he was away from the team on personal reasons. And in true James Harden fashion, when he's doing something that's for personal reasons, he has cameras around him. So he was at the ASU game watching, I believe ASU versus Arizona, and he was at his home in Phoenix, completely left the team. And so now he wants to be traded because, and there's speculation around here about this, that Hard is under contract for this year and next year. He has a 39 to make a 39.2 million this year, making 42.3 million next year, but only 13 million of that is guaranteed. And the rumors are like he wants to get paid then he wants to give a guarantee beyond this season and he's, I guess there's been an impasse off of that. This is coming in the midst of the Clippers playing some of their best basketball the season. James Harden has been a big part of that. Roger, this is, I think, the fourth trade request that James Harden has made since we've had this podcast. We've been through this a lot before, but I'll start with Howard first. What the hell is going on? Howard Beck and where do we go from here? Why do we, why do we keep. Every time we think something boring is going to happen, either in free agency or the trade deadline, James Harden is like, this is about me. This is my time to shine.
- [30:05]
C
You know, the NBA's added a lot of like new honors and awards and like named old awards for like legends in recent years. They need to make like a James Harden in season trade award or in season trade demand award. The, the James Harden award going each year to the player who just like gives us all something to talk about, buzz about at the trade deadline by making a trade demand like clockwork. This is basically every two years. Like when this happened yesterday. When the news hit last night, it was like surprising, but not shocking. 2021 James Harden. I don't want to be in Houston anymore. Trade me. Trade me to Brooklyn. Please trade him to Brooklyn. He played 80 games over parts of two seasons. I don't want to play in Brooklyn anymore. I want to play with Kyrie. Sent me to Philly. Not sent him to Philly. He played 79 games over two seasons. I'm not. I don't really want to be here anymore. Daryl Morey lied to me about my contract. Allegedly. I won't play for LA. I want to go to the Clippers. 2023 forces his way to the Clippers. To his credit, I guess James Harden's actually managed to play two and a half seasons with the Clippers before wanting out yet again. Most of these have been driven. Well, some of these have been driven by money, some have been driven by the state of the team. But regardless, like James Harden, more than any other player of this era, is a guy who is going to sour on his situation and demand a trade. It's funny because we talk about the player empowerment era. It's LeBron's the Face of it. James Harden should be the face of the player trade demand era because this is what he does more than anybody else. More than like LeBron's left in free agency when he's done it and he's had long stints kd, so, you know, not every trade has been at. At his, at his will. Yeah, this is going to be James Harden's six team. He's still really valuable. He's still really productive. We can talk about whether or not he makes sense next to Donovan Mitchell in Cleveland if that one happens. But man, I just, I. It's going to be hard. James Harden's an all time great. Let's be clear. He's a Hall of Famer. Let's be clear. It's going to be hard to ever look at this guy's career and the grand scope of it without thinking about. He is the face of disgruntled stars in the 21st century. This is what he does.
- [32:25]
B
Raja, we've gone from, you Know him partying during the pandemic with Lil Baby, to him wanting out because of Kyrie's vaccination status. He went to China and said that a GM lied to him at an Adidas event. That's a lot of baggage for a team to take on. Right. And my, the thing that's funny to me is you sign this contract and it makes me wonder if you signed this contract knowing that the guarantees weren't. They kind of come around like, was this pre. Planned. Was this like you knew that you knew what this. You do the job was dangerous when you took it. But I'll go back to my original question, which is how much of. Do you want to. Of this. Do you want to take on if you're another team? Because inevitably it's going to blow up in your face? With James Harden, it is what it is. He is who he is at this point. He's not hiding that.
- [33:19]
D
Yeah. To answer that question, Logan, I guess it would depend on what your risk tolerance is, right? Like, because, you know, at some point it's either coming to him asking for some sort of trade, or he won't have enough tread left on the tire to be valuable enough to help you win games. And so what comes first? You know, I don't really know. You know, it's become, it's become the norm. So it doesn't, it doesn't really hit me the same way it did when guys first started, like, frequently asking to be moved, like. So I'm not really upset about it. I'm used to it. It's. It's the world that, that, that they live in now. I just, I'm always fascinated by, by the front offices, and I was fascinated when I was in one because, you know, talent is always, it's always tantalizing to them in a way that they will overlook or compromise sometimes their values as it relates to trust or things like that, to take a swing at talent. Like, it's always going to win, provided it's playing at the level that they think is necessary for them to take a step up as a franchise. And so, you know, I get James Harden still playing great basketball. He's still doing some remarkable things. How long he can do that for, I don't know. But I don't know that I necessarily answered your question, but that was always fascinating to me, sitting in those meetings, hearing people talk about different players and my pushback at times, not all the time, but certainly if I had knowledge of some issues would be. But, you know, hey, guys like before we do that, let's, let's just talk about this real quick because this could be something that bites us in the butt on the back end. And way more often than not, guys are going to take that swing and disregard what they know. What they know could be, you know, rough waters down the road. Right. But it's, it's smooth sailing right now. And so we're just gonna go.
- [35:20]
B
It's I, I, hold on one second, Howard. I, I, I, I am very equally frustrated about that as you are, Raji, because the, no matter how tantalizing talent is like you're still going to come up with the end result and that, that, which is what they've always been throughout their career. You've, especially when you have as much evidence of he is who he is as James Harden does, right? If he's not a malcontent, well, then he's not great for you in the playoffs when you need him the most. Those are two big strikes against you, right? And as you get older and older and older like, and your game erodes and I'm not saying James Harden game is, has eroded a lot because he's still a very, very effective player. Still getting those crazy triple stubbles and stat lines. But, but as you get older, your, your role is expected to get lesser and lesser and I just don't know how he's going to adjust to that. I Howard, I just think the next few years, in the last few years of his career just going to be fascinating because I just don't know how he is going to react to that because everything you know about James Harden is that, you know, he wants a certain level of spotlight on him and he's not going to necessarily get that. I think that this might be wherever it is the last go, right? Because I think that, I don't know who wants to deal with that as, as right now because in LA it was, this is like the perfect ending for a career. You get to ride it out at home and like, where else is he going, where else is he going to get what he wants? And maybe that's a question of what is he actually want. But all those things is, I think the last few years of his, of his career are going to be fascinating for those reasons. I just laid out.
- [37:06]
C
Yeah, we don't know for sure where he's going to land yet. And just from what I heard just kind of poking around this morning, there were people around the league yesterday, Monday who thought that Harden for Garland was already a done deal. And then some piece of that. I don't know if there was a hitch in there about picks or whatever else there may be, but there were people around the league who thought this was going to be done yesterday or that it was already on course. Who knows, this thing might get done in the course of this podcast while we're recording in the middle of the day here on Tuesday. If he lands with Cleveland specifically, there's like so many tentacles to this. Raj's old pal Kobe Altman pulling, pulling a lot of strings here and poking around and looking to do just about everything like they're Kobe Altman in that front office are in a tough spot, right? Their core four, we know this is like the only second apron team in the league right now. I believe their core four has not been able to get as far as they want to go. We've had some first round flame outs, really potent on paper, not great in reality sometimes. And then Garland's been hurt a lot too, and he's got that nagging toe situation. So you plug in Harden for Garland, you get a little bit more physicality in the backcourt. You know James Harden is much bigger player than Garland. That undersized backcourt I felt like was always an Achilles heel there. But hell, they had a 60 win season. They've had a lot of success. Harden, I think does push them up a notch, right? Logan brings up the right concern, which is that his postseason record, especially in critical games and postseasons over the course of his career, is really poor. He disappears in big moments. If I'm going to talk myself into James Harden at this stage of his career, it's I've got Donovan Mitchell. He's the guy who's going to bring it home. I'm not worried about James Harden going like 1 for 7 in the fourth quarter of a playoff game. I've got Donovan Mitchell, I've got Evan Mobley. I've got other ways to go here. And it's the same thing I I said when he went to the Clippers. Like I've got Kawhi Leonard went healthy or when he was in Philly. I've got Joel Embiid when healthy. I've got if you've got another star who can carry a lot of that and handle the pressure, you James Harden doesn't have to be like in Houston. Everything rose and fell with him and if he couldn't come through, you're screwed. That's not going to be the situation if he's in Cleveland. So I'm not worried about that Part of it necessarily, I think it's more about he's I think 36 and what's the window and how much money is he going to want tacked on? How effective is he going to be as he moves into his late 30s? How well do he and Donovan Mitchell mesh Because those are both pretty ball dominant guys. Donovan Mitchell does need somebody to take some of the ball handling pressure and scoring off of him. But you know James Harden depending on on the team and the situation, sometimes a good fit and meshes, sometimes not. So you are rolling the dice. There is risk there but bunch of other intel out there that I should just hit real quick as part of the scenario here. SM and I think Wynhurst and others have mentioned like the Cavs need to figure out what to do. The core four is not working. They need to start getting under the second apron again at some point here there's a Donovan Mitchell part of this where he's eligible for an extension this summer. They're not sure if he's going to sign it. He can opt out as soon as summer of 2027. So if you're trying to to convince him to stay, maybe you need to improve. One of the reports was if they flame out early in the playoffs again that might have been Bond temps that if they flame out early in the playoffs again that Donovan Mitchell is not going to want to resign. See, there's a lot of different considerations here. Is James Harden the answer to all of those things? Logan clearly thinks not based on the variety of expressions he has been employing. The last three minutes of me talking.
- [40:53]
B
The thing that got me was the fact that we think James, we think that Donovan Mitchell was the one to bring this home right now. Right. And he. Well, we have Donovan Mitchell like Donovan Mitchell has questions in the postseason as well. Right.
- [41:06]
C
I trust him more than I trust James Harden.
- [41:09]
B
Absolutely. But like what are we trusting here? That we're going to flame out in the semifinals and then or we're going to flame out in the conference finals. Right. Like it's. You're still not reaching your goal. Right. And I just don't and like to say, oh we have, we have. We have Mitchell, we're good. We have Evan Mobley who is kind of just been the guy that he's been since he's been in the league and hasn't really lived up to the expectations we've all bestowed on him. You know, based on his height, his length, what we feel like he can do with the basketball. Right. Like oh this is this Going to be David Robinson 2.0. It doesn't look like that's. That's shaking out. This move seems for the Cavaliers, in my eyes, seems like a move that is, you know, one of the last ditch moves of what this era is going to be. Right. Like, they've kind of hit their ceiling of what they are, and they've had a bit of a regression. Let's just make a quick move to just see what, like, similar to what the Hawks did last year, right, where, hey, we're going to get an extra trade. We're going to, you know, see what the landscape is. We're going to do one, one more shot at this, and we'll see what happens. And. But we'll see because I feel like if you trade for James Harden, he's going to want some sort of guarantee and extension and then you have another year of James Harden. So, like, I just, I don't. I don't know what happens.
- [42:24]
D
I would, I would just say I agree with Howard in that you get. I think you get fractionally better with James Harden. There is some, there's some risk there with that. You know, I was told from that situation in Brooklyn, one thing was said to the organization about the role that was willing to be accepted and the way said player would play with, with the, with the roster construction, and that did not last very long. He became very disgruntled with that very quickly. But. But I do think it makes them better. And what I would say to Kobe and, and, you know, the Cavs is that if you're looking at the east, you know, we've said this all year. If you're looking at the east, you might feel that rolling the dice on getting a little bit better this year puts you right in the mix for potentially, you know, being in the Finals, you know, and it might. When you're at a point where, you know that roster that you have right now is. Has got real limitations, I mean, you might be willing to risk that.
- [43:21]
B
Yeah, I mean, we kept saying, we all said all season that the east is wide open. And it's even more so now, right? Like Rogers Hornets out here killing it, baby. Hottest team in the league. And then. And then the Sixers simmering.
- [43:40]
D
You pe. You peaked up. You picked up the lid lately and looked in.
- [43:43]
B
I watched it. Hey, I watched them play against the, the, the. The San Antonio spurs over the weekend. And yo, man, they are so fun to watch because they throw up a lot of. And it goes in. There was a play, I believe, that happened and correct me if I'm wrong, guys, and I'm sure there will be videos in the. In the chat saying that I'm wrong. But there was, like, a play where Lonzo was go. Or Lamelo was going out of bounds through a alley oop. And just, like, it was like, a beautiful dunk. And I. That was, like, the first thing that I saw when I turned it on was, like, just some random alley oop dunk. And I thought it was, like, NBA Street. I was like, oh, this is fun. And then they were kicking the. Out of the Spurs. This is fun.
- [44:22]
D
Past team of the year. League pass team of the year.
- [44:25]
B
They're. They're in play. Sorry for the quick tangent. They're in play. You know, like, the. The Sixers are in flux now with Paul George's suspension, which is wild. It's a lot of things going on right now. Can I ask.
- [44:39]
D
Can I sidebar again? Like, I'm sorry.
- [44:41]
B
Like, I just do it, man. You know how we do.
- [44:43]
C
I might have a sidebar off your sidebar.
- [44:45]
B
Go.
- [44:46]
D
All right. What is the NBA drug policy now? Like, what are they.
- [44:50]
B
Actually, can you hold on? I'm gonna push back to you. I'm gonna push back to you because Shaq said there was a pamphlet. Can you give us more enlightenment on, like, the pamphlet that. He said that they give you a pamphlet of the drugs that you shouldn't take and then on how to get the drugs out of your system. I don't know this NBA PA thing or an NBA thing, but that's what he said on espn.
- [45:12]
D
I wasn't taking any, so if they gave me a pamphlet, I was just discarding it. So, like, I don't know that to be true or not. They certainly come around and give you everything that is being tested for, like, you.
- [45:23]
B
That's.
- [45:23]
D
That's not something that should. Should surprise you. When your panel comes up and they say you've tested positive for X, Y, and Z, you should know what they're testing for, which is my question, because I don't. I don't think they're testing for, like, recreational marijuana anymore. Like, they're not marijuana for those kind of things. So, like, which.
- [45:44]
B
Which you could stay on the weed. Sorry.
- [45:48]
D
Yeah, my. My first. They were testing us for the.
- [45:53]
C
For.
- [45:53]
D
For marijuana. When. When we played my. My first team I ever played on, I was in a stall, and, you know, I was trying to do my drug test. This was before they made you stand right in front of the person taking the drug test. You could.
- [46:10]
B
That.
- [46:10]
D
You could go into the stall and. Or the urinal, if you will. I got a knock on the. On the. On the wall, and I was like, who the. Who is. Who is in the stall next to me? And a vet of mine, I'll say no names. Was like, hey, young fella. And kind of slid the vial underneath the. Underneath the partition.
- [46:30]
C
The partition.
- [46:31]
D
To me, that was my first experience with pro drug tests.
- [46:36]
B
There you go.
- [46:38]
D
Yeah. Can I tell you my last. Can I tell you my last one? I'll just tell you my last one, because I'm all the way off the rails.
- [46:43]
B
Let's go.
- [46:44]
D
I was staying at home the year. My last year in the NBA, I had agreed to disagree with Utah. So I stayed home. They were still coming to drug test me at my house. So my sons. My sons and my wife were not home at the time. And this gentleman came to the house to drug test me, gave me the vial, and I went to go into, like. I'm in our bathroom, right? Which has a. Which has its own stall to, you know, his or her stall. So I go to go into my stall to use the restroom, and buddy was like, no, you can't go in there. I'm like, yo, my man, I'll just keep the door open. Like, you could stand right behind me. He was like, nope, right in the middle of the room. Like, they were trying to get me. I'm pretty sure right in the middle of the room, I'm going to be facing you. So I'm standing there doing my business with this guy's back to my hallway, right? So I'm facing the hallway, looking down to my bedroom. His back is to me, and my pants are down. Lo and behold, my boys come running around the corner. Oh, my God. I was. I didn't know what to do, man. This man is standing there watching me pee in a vial, and my two young sons, they were like, six and eight years old, come streaming around the corner.
- [47:50]
B
Wow.
- [47:51]
D
NBA drug testing was wild. Wild. But. But I digress. Crazy story, dog.
- [48:00]
C
I understand, like, the need to, like, kind of verify and everything, but, like, there's got to be a line there somewhere. It ain't that important.
- [48:07]
D
Good Lord, what's your age? Back we used to get. We used to get on buses. We used to get on buses. Like, there was a time in Milwaukee where, like, I remember this, like, Eddie House myself. Like, I think it was Eddie House, it was with the suns, where we all had a real similar experience in that bathroom. And we were like, yo, was that shit weird, bro? Like, did that. Was that, like, a weird encounter in there? And universally, the whole bus was like, yo, I won't talk about that, bro.
- [48:30]
C
By the way, speaking of the beginnings of your career, there was a Sixers reunion.
- [48:37]
B
Oh, we're off the rails now. That was during mailbag time. But we're off the rails. Okay. Why weren't you there?
- [48:42]
C
Yeah, Raja, why'd you blow off the reunion, man? I saw all your former teammates there, Front office people, Billy King, all these guys.
- [48:49]
B
Yeah, Iverson hitting your phone wasn't enough.
- [48:53]
D
Listen, man, I wanted to go, but my son Ty had his last regular season game on Friday, so I was already out for the Friday night dinner and stuff, and then Saturday. That would have been cool, but my daughter had a soccer game. We had a lot of stuff going on at the crib. And I know a lot of people don't feel me on this, man. I would have loved to have seen all those cats, but, like, they're not. I don't really stay in touch with a ton of those dudes. Like, you know what I mean? So if you make me pick between doing some shit with my family and seeing them play and stuff, like, no disrespect, but I'm. I'm probably gonna stay home and watch the games.
- [49:29]
C
All right, Fair respect. Fair. Raj is a good family.
- [49:32]
B
That's it.
- [49:33]
D
Simple as that.
- [49:34]
B
Okay.
- [49:35]
C
I was scanning that photo on Twitter, like, as long as Twitter on Twitter, like, blocked by somebody.
- [49:41]
D
It looked like a good time, man. It was it.
- [49:43]
C
It did.
- [49:43]
B
It did, Howard. But what was.
- [49:45]
D
What was your sidebar, Howard? Sorry.
- [49:47]
C
No, no, that was it. That was it. You said you brought up Philly, and I thought there was my opportunity.
- [49:51]
B
Okay. Okay, Howard. We also had a mailbag at the end that you. That could have been, like, a mailbag, but anyway, Howard, it's not in the mailbag.
- [49:58]
C
Nobody asked that question.
- [49:59]
B
We were gonna add it. It's our show. Anyway, Howard, back to you. Get us back on track. Like, we could do with the we want. It's our show.
- [50:06]
C
I'm sending questions to. My questions to myself.
- [50:10]
D
What did he get? What did he pop positive for? Was my question. I'm sorry to go all the way off the rails.
- [50:14]
B
What for? We didn't know. Unclear. Howard, back to James Harden and. And. And the impass. Jesus, that was crazy. That was, like, old school. Real ones there.
- [50:24]
D
Yeah, my bad.
- [50:25]
B
Woo. Okay, I'll. I'll pose this question to Howard, and I really want to hear Roger's answer on this. So is there a world where Like, James doesn't get dealt at the deadline and it's pure hell for the rest of the season. And the Clippers are just in pure Clipperdom going into the postseason. Because if we know anything about James Harden, he could make this very awkward.
- [50:47]
C
He's really good at that. Yes. He gets what he wants for a reason. Because he makes shit super, super awkward.
- [50:55]
B
He don't give a hip.
- [50:57]
C
It brings up why, like, the timing is what it is anyway. Like, this team was in the tank in November, early December, and like they've been on a tear like they're 17 and five since December 18th with the second best offense in the NBA and the fourth best net rating. Like, they're finally good. They're finally, like, digging out of it. Kawhi's back. He's kicking butt. Snubbed from the All Star team, but still, Kawhi's been great. Harden's been great. And now, now all of a sudden. So some of this is definitely contract related, as, as we mentioned, some of this is definitely, from what I understand, you know, the Clippers have made it clear they want cap room in 2027. So everything's planned toward that. So everybody is built to expire on that contract except for Zubach. So if you want an extension and a big one like Harden does that, you know, you know, it's not in the cards. But then again, that what that's been known for a while. Like, he could have asked out last summer. I don't know why he waited till now. So I want to say this and I want to put a massive, massive caveat on this theory. Not report aggregators theory. Theory that is out there.
- [52:04]
B
Hey, all the aggregators put theory before whatever Howard said.
- [52:09]
C
This is not my theory. This is a theory that has been passed along to me. Okay, we're still waiting on a re on the NBA to make a ruling on this aspiration cap circumvention scandal. And that's coming. I don't know when. I don't suppose it will come while we're all in LA at the Clippers Intuit Dome for All Star Weekend, but possibly sometime after that. Theory again, theory that if they're going to get hammered at the front office level, maybe at the ownership level, perhaps even at the Kawhi level, that may put a severe crimp in the Clippers hopes and aspirations. Some might say if that's the case and you're James Harden, maybe you just want to pull the ripcord and get out ahead of things before it Goes to shit. Again, I'm not reporting anything. I'm not saying this is fact. I'm saying this is a, I think, very plausible, believable theory that had been passed along to me. So if that's the case, this, this might be one of the more kind of James Harden's trade demands.
- [53:18]
B
I tell you what, even if it isn't, he might make it as such just to, you know, you know, it might just be a crusader just to get, get out of Dodge. Because my thing is this, though, and I, I, I, I, I do think there's some credence to that theory. The other thing is, like, that's not going to preclude the Clippers from going to the playoffs this year if he's on the team and fully healthy. Right? Like, they're not going to just, if a ruling comes down, they're not just going to say, you guys are banned from the playoffs. The Clippers are banned.
- [53:43]
C
No, but if they, if they suspend Kawhi though, for any length of time.
- [53:47]
B
Yeah, that's fair. Yeah, that's fair. The other thing that's funny, and I want to get to Roger's opinion on just the locker room dynamics before I get to that. One thing is funny about going into this Clippers All Star Game. One, there's no Clipper All Stars at this present moment. And two, like, you have the aspiration stuff. And then three, James Harden is asking for a trade. Like, just, is there, is there any time to like, just give this to the Lakers for this, for this All Star weekend? Just to like, just take the stench off of it? Because that's going to be hanging all over this. This is just, it's, it's the absolute worst case scenario for Steve Ballmer going into.
- [54:31]
D
I mean, you can make a case that it's the perfect Clippers All Star Weekend.
- [54:34]
B
It's on brand, right? It is on brand. Okay, so, so Roger, if, if, if James Harden does come back, if you're in that locker room, how do you deal with, with that? What is the locker room dynamic going to be? Because I know you always say, like, oh, that's their business, whatever. We play basketball, you know, we're all about routine. But like, damn, dog.
- [54:55]
C
Same.
- [54:55]
B
Like we were, we were rolling. Yeah.
- [54:58]
D
Yeah. This one might be a little dicier. I mean, you're, Have I ever said that about someone trying to force their way out of a situation that, like, we weren't. I mean, that's, I usually, I usually say we're not affected by it when we're you know, we're talking about.
- [55:17]
B
You.
- [55:17]
D
Know, other maybe disciplinary things and stuff like that.
- [55:19]
C
But.
- [55:20]
D
But as far as a guy saying, like, yo, I don't. I don't want to be here anymore. I'd like to be. Or if they're negotiating contractually. Right. But, like, once a guy says, I'm ready to leave, there are going to be some feelings in that locker room.
- [55:31]
C
Who.
- [55:32]
D
How deep, how long it takes him to get over those feelings. You know, I don't know. Typically, I would say when you get out there on the court, you're hooping, Right. So, like, feelings aren't involved when we're hooping. We're just conducting business. But in that locker room, yeah, it could get a little, you know, it could get a little dicey. I mean, people are looking at you sideways if you're trying to force your way out of somewhere, somewhere, and. And that doesn't work.
- [55:53]
B
Yeah, we'll see what happens. It's fascinating. Any last thoughts? Howard, Raja, what do we think?
- [56:01]
C
Can't wait. I can't wait to see what happens after we log off of this podcast today. I will say deadline tomorrow. What's that?
- [56:09]
B
Deadline's Thursday.
- [56:10]
D
Deadline, sorry, Thursday.
- [56:12]
C
We got two days. I mean, there's, you know, the Giannis thing has been kind of looming over everything, and I think holding a lot of things up around the league. But, like, as you start to see this flurry of. Of rumors and speculation last day or so, like, you can see, like, we're getting close, and everybody's just going to have to start pushing the button because there are teams that need to make moves. I think we will get a reasonable amount of activity between now and Thursday afternoon.
- [56:35]
B
All right, man, let's take a quick break, and then we're going to talk about the teams you want to see make a move or a player that we just wanted to see get out of their situation next. And we are back, ladies and gentlemen. Maybe this segment will, you know, stay on the rails as opposed to last segment, but maybe not. This is real ones first, let's say let's just go with Giannis. Let's talk about Giannis. I know you guys can't wait to do that. I think there's been a cool. I think there's been a cooling on the notion that he is going to get traded by the deadline. I think a lot of smoke that was. There was pretty much the warriors flooding the zone and telling everyone who would listen that they would give a. Would give every asset that they have in order to get Giannis, which is something that they've basically said behind the scenes for years in some capacity. Right. And the Bucks have no incentive to just give Giannis away right now to Golden State. Unless, like Giannis said, I'm only signing an extension with them, and he has an indicator that he would do that. We. We haven't gotten to the draft. We're not even close to that. When teams will actually have a better idea of what they can give, and the Bucks will actually have a better idea of the packages that they can, you know, either trade for or negotiate with. That's my read on the situation. Howard, what is your read on the honest situation as it stands right now? So we can move on to other things.
- [58:17]
C
As you guys know, I've never expected anything was going to happen by the deadline for a bazillion reasons. I still don't think that's going to happen by the deadline. But, you know, we've been shocked before, like the Luca trade. So without getting in the weeds about it, I think the Bucks have a bigger field to play of suitors in the off season and potentially better offers. And, yeah, the. The kind of. The sense around the league in the last, you know, day or two, the last few days, is they're just not getting blown away in the way that they want to be, as they should. That, you know, Giannis, for all of, you know, the bangs and bruises and everything else, is still, you know, a former MVP and finals MVP and a champion who is still in his prime. They should get the biggest haul they can possibly get. And if they're not getting it now, they should wait till the off season. I think that's what's going to happen.
- [59:08]
B
You think they shut them down? Resident season. I think they have just, like, that's all the incentive that they probably should shut them down.
- [59:14]
C
Dr. Giannis said he was going to be out for six weeks. I don't think the Bucks have given any kind of health update, which, like, I don't know how many NBA rules they're violating by not doing that, but at some point, look, he's going to be eligible to come back, and they're not going to want him to come back because of the draft pick and all that, but, yeah, that's a. That's a. That's a tension point for down the road, you know.
- [59:37]
B
Roger, anything? I think we've already said everything we'd say about Ayanna straight. You got anything?
- [59:41]
D
No, I want him to be traded. No, I want him to be traded. Like I want to. I'd like to see him on somebody's roster this year that could put him in a position to fight for something. But, like, I understand if that doesn't happen. Right. Like, you've got a, you know, you've got a job to do.
- [59:54]
B
Yeah. Howard, who do you have on your list of teams and players that we need to talk about?
- [60:00]
C
I'm just going to dispense with one right off the top, though. Chris Paul's probably not getting traded in the next couple of days. But, like, we've all forgotten that Chris Paul was actually in the league this year because it's been so long. Like, free Chris Paul. If they don't trade him by Thursday, I assume that he'll just get waved or bought out or something, and he'll. Maybe he'll find a home somewhere. I don't know. The Pistons of the team that I feel like just really should make a move, needs to make a move and, and maybe is not inclined to make a move because in a. In a year where we keep saying the east is wide open, they've got a pretty healthy lead at the top of the conference standings. And they may. They may rightfully feel like, yeah, we're young. Yeah, we only have one playoff series under our belt from last year, but we'll bet on who we've got right now. We'll, we'll. Let's. Let's give Cade and Duran and the rest of our guys a chance to, to see what they can do as the favorites this time, as opposed to the. The dark horse that came in. But, man, if they just had one more ball handling, playmaker score type, right? I think they were hoping Jaden Ivey would be that, but he. He hasn't really gotten all the way back, I think, since the injury last year. If they just had one more shooter, you know, hello. Michael Porter Jr. You know, like, they've got picks to trade. They've got, you know, contracts that they can move. Like, they have the ability, the Pistons, to keep their core guys and make a move that upgrades them either with, you know, whether it's shooting, whether it's playmaking, like, just one more good piece. Like, could they. Could they grab like. Like Drew Holiday would be great, but I don't know that the Blazers want to give him up and, and his contract's huge and it's. It's hard to accommodate, but like an ayo do SUU or somebody, like, can you just get another. Somebody else a little pop? So the Pistons would be top of My list of teams that I'd like to see make a move by Thursday.
- [61:44]
D
Yeah, I wouldn't mind them fortifying. I was interested to hear where you were going with that, Howard, because I, you know, just because they are sitting where they are in the Eastern Conference, the way they're playing. I was interested to hear where you were going, but I. I would agree, like, if you can. If you cannot tinker too much with.
- [61:58]
B
With.
- [61:59]
D
With what you have going on there, but add a piece that brings a little pop to you, to. To you in terms of playmaking and stuff like that. I kind of like that a little bit. I went. You know, you took the name. You went with the team, but you took the name that I was going to use. I'd like to see Michael Porter Jr. Like, you've. He's already proven that he can play at a championship level and. And provide a service and do it at a high level. You know, weirdly, he might be in, like, the reverse world that I talk about. I usually talk about, like, young players coming in, not being ready to win, like, wanting to score all their points and prove to the world who they are, and then as they get older, they want to win. Well, he won relatively early. He might be intoxicated with, like. Like, just getting to score the hell out of the ball now. I haven't heard from him in that regard. I wouldn't mind seeing him, like, go somewhere where he could be back in. In the playoffs and providing that service for somebody who's got a chance to do something.
- [62:51]
B
What do we think about Memphis? They're in a. They're in a. They're in a place where, you know, I feel like they want to get off of a Ja Morant and feels like they just kind of want a fresh start right here. Howard, like, you are the John Moran guy. Where do you see that going?
- [63:07]
C
Speaking of aggregators, where do you see that going? No, listen, I mean, like, that divorce is inevitable, but I. It's hard for it to happen right now because his market is in the tank. I don't know it's going to come back anytime soon, but, you know, at least the deeper you get into a guy's contract, the less money is left, and maybe there's more season for him to kind of rehab himself a little bit in the eyes of other people around the league. But I just think, like, that the market for Jaw is so soft that the Grizzlies trading him now means basically giving him away the way that the Hawks did with Trey Young and You're trying to avoid that if you can. You know, even if you think it's over and you need to move on and you need to restart doing it now for as long as low of a return as you'd probably get, that's hard, that's hard for a franchise to stomach and you revisit in the off season. No guarantee you're going to get more, but there's no urgency necessarily to getting it done right now. This season is what it is. So. I'm not expecting a job deal.
- [64:12]
B
Yeah, I, I, I think what, what would frustrate me if I'm Memphis, based on what you said, is if we're trying to get out of the job business and then keeping him around as we're trying to build something new would just be kind of counterproductive. Right. As soon as, like, like, even if you do, you got all them picks from, you know, Orlando and the Bain trade. Right. Like, you could still build a team. Even if you did, it might be embarrassing to, to get nothing for job, but like, there's no market. I would just, if I want to start a new, I would just get rid of them for whatever the price is. If it, like, I, we could still build a new. You have a good front office there and you can build something special. I just feel like with Ja and the contract that he has and the years that he still has left on it, like, if he's going to be there, he's not, it's, it's not going to be helpful for your overall goal in this.
- [65:10]
C
I see that. But you only got to get through another couple of months and then you miss the playoffs and then the season's over.
- [65:15]
B
So, yeah, you could, I just mean having him in your building overall, right. Like, you have to always worry about him. You know what I mean? We'll see. Oh, man, I feel bad. Last one and then we'll, we'll get some mail back. Jonathan Kinga, Man, I don't know. I, I don't know. It's, if he doesn't get traded by the deadline, I feel like we're all just going to be suffering. It's, this is just going to be, this is one of the most brutal sagas that has happened. There's been smoke out there that like, he, the only team that is, that I feel like has consistently wanted him is the Sacramento Kings and they just traded Keon Ellis to Cleveland and so, and that's who the warriors wanted out of the deal. It's just been an ultimate failure. I Don't. I just. That's all I had.
- [66:08]
C
I don't want to ever have to talk about Jonathan Kaminga and his. And, and the Kaminga trades ever again. Nothing against Jonathan Kaminga. Just like, it's the, it is the most proverbial ink that's ever been spilled on a fringe rotation guy and potential trades. Like, I, I, I just, I, I hope he has a great career somewhere else. Like, it's been over with him and the warriors for a long time, but just like, yeah, but every. Spare us all, Spare the NBA community anymore having to speculate on where Jonathan Kaminga is going to go. Just get it done.
- [66:40]
B
Malpractice from everyone involved. Okay, let's get to, let's get to mailbag. We have. This is from Rory Locke. No Cliff today, so I'm going to handle the mailbag. We, I think we answered this question on the pod, me and Raja, but I forgot the answer, so we can just freestyle it here. Hey, guys. Appreciate what you do. I'd love to hear you guys discuss a Giannis to the Pacers deal. The Pacers can give their draft pick this year and in future years and then pair Halliburton with Giannis for the next handful of years. The Pacers also have a young core of players to send to the Bucks. What do we think?
- [67:19]
D
Well, Howard, I want to let you go, but we did it in a fantasy world, right? Because we did it where you were just like, what did we give up? We gave up Siakam and. Was it Siakam and like a Nimhart? No, it wasn't Nimhard. I think, I don't think so. Might have been. Might have been. But, like. Go ahead, Howard, do your thing. Like, we, we did do that.
- [67:41]
C
Yeah, I, I love the idea of Giannis with Halliburton for sure. So, like, to, to the listeners, point. To Rory's point. Love the concept, but, yeah, like, if you're gonna start playing with the trade machine, you're either aggregating like, half the Pacers roster to make the deal, or it's gotta be Siakam and it's gonna be Siakam and a bunch of picks, and that's fine, but, like, do the Bucks want Siakam and probably every pick? Like, Siakam's an All Star and a worthy All Star, and I like, I like the value there on some level, but Siakam's 31. He's not the guy that the Bucks are rebuilding around in a post Giannis universe. Could you flip him then? For more stuff. Sure. So, like, it might work on the Bucks end. It definitely works on the Pacers end. I think ideally, you know, you wanted a third guy to maybe put with Halliburton and Siakam, or maybe you're just trying to upgrade a lot of the supporting cast and instead you're going, you know, even more top heavy with, with a Giannis Halliburton pairing. So it, it, there's some caveats there, but I like it in concept.
- [68:51]
D
Yeah, no, I've already told you. I mean, I've already. If you're waiting for me to weigh in, like, I, I, if, if, if you're, if you're giving me Giannis and Halle as a pairing and I have a decent supporting cast around that, like, I'm in. I, I, I think they naturally are, are a really nice fit together. And in the world where we discussed it, Logan, I, I, I'm sorry, I'm drawing a blank, but we talked about some of the pieces that would be able to be retained in the deal that you had proposed, and I kind of liked it. So, so, you know, on the flip side of it, what Howard's talking about in terms of Milwaukee and whether or not that fits the bill in terms of what they're looking for, like, you know, I didn't really, I, I rarely attack trade from that angle. I come purely from like, hey, if you put him with that player, does it work?
- [69:32]
B
Well, do I.
- [69:33]
D
Can I see the roadmap? The answer to that is yes.
- [69:35]
B
So a lot of people more smarter than us can get didn't work out the semantics of the numbers and stuff, for sure. Speaking of people smarter than us, this is a pure Howard question. This next question that I'm doing, like, we can just sit this one hour.
- [69:47]
D
Let me.
- [69:48]
B
I was just gonna hop on the phone. Yeah, hop on the phone. Hey, real ones. I want to ask about the state of the NBA and the cba. Do you think the, the aprons are working with the trade deadline happening this week and they're not being any excitement really, like in years past, which has been one of the main things of the NBA. Kevin Love had a rant about it a couple of weeks ago, but I wanted to get your take on how that. We're basically halfway through it. Happy to hear this on the show. Connor Bingham, shout out. Connor, go ahead. Thank you.
- [70:18]
C
Connor Logan, thank you for designating me as the, like, resident CBA nerd of the show.
- [70:23]
B
It's nerd alert.
- [70:25]
D
Expert. Expert.
- [70:27]
C
Great honor. Put on my Bobby Marks hat. The Second apron. The aprons. All the aprons. All the kitchen utensils or accoutrement. I don't know, clothing, pain in the butt. If anybody tells you that it's not affecting things, I don't think they're being entirely truthful. But I do think this one, I do think we're going to see a bunch of stuff happening. And I think the lack of activity is more about the Giannis trade hanging over everything and freezing a lot of teams that are trying to be in on that first than it is about the aprons. The other thing about the aprons is, and I've had this conversation with a lot of people around the league, actual cap nerds, not me playing one on tv. Actual cap nerds around the league and executives around the league. I have floated this theory and they have said yes, they agree. We're still in the early couple years of this cba and so everybody's still trying to recalibrate. And as contracts start coming off the books, like, think of whatever you think the worst contracts are. Maybe I hate to keep picking on him, but like Zach Levine or Michael Porter Jr's deal or other contracts that are now considered overpriced, especially in this really tight landscape, as those come off the books, the system is going to have more flexibility in it. Teams are gonna have more cap room again, and you're gonna recalibrate. And in theory, this is where like the. The team discipline comes in. If teams start to exercise a little more discipline and stop overpaying your second tier star like a first tier star, or your third best player like a second best player, and you start to ratchet down those contracts, stop just giving out maxes to everybody who asked for one, then that will give more flexibility back into the system as a whole and team by team. But right now you've still got a lot of contracts from pre CBA, pre 2023 CBA that are kind of clogging up the work. So there has to be kind of a recalibration and books getting cleaned and not. Not books getting cleaned, books getting cleared out. And then I think things will return a little bit to. To normalcy, whatever normal.
- [72:27]
B
Hey, Rosie is.
- [72:28]
C
But. But we go through this every so often with, with the. With new CBAs.
- [72:31]
B
You know what I'm hearing right now? Players got policed. Yeah, please.
- [72:39]
D
I mean, the max guys are still going to be strong.
- [72:43]
B
Like. Yeah, good for them. Yeah. Yeah. So. Yeah. Okay, cool.
- [72:46]
C
Yeah, the question. But the question is like, would you still pay? You know, Carlos, you get what I'm saying, 50 million in his next deal, right?
- [72:54]
D
Sure.
- [72:54]
B
But, like, you want the players to get their bread, and then all of a sudden, now they're having these. Like, I want. I personally want everybody to make as much money as possible. So I want the Carl Towns of the world to get their money. And now it's like, you know, since the last cbs.
- [73:08]
C
This is just what the system is. I'm not making a value judgment. It's just what the system is. And it's a system that the players association signed on to, so.
- [73:14]
B
And they fleeced themselves.
- [73:18]
C
I think they're doing okay.
- [73:21]
B
They doing better than us. Maybe not Roger, but they're doing better than me and Howard. Last one. Hey, this is a bit of a long one and I hope you guys don't get offended by one of the things that they said. And you'll see when. When they say it. Hey, real ones team. Firstly, I love all of you guys. I tune into all of your content from here in Down Under Australia, where we are blissfully sheltered from a lot of the turmoil in the US and elsewhere around the globe. I'm a longtime spurs fan, so I had some lingering animosity towards Raja from back in the day because of the spurs versus Suns playoff battles. But Raja, little did I know how real you are. Logan and Beck, you got all the angles of Young and parentheses Logan and my age, parentheses, Beck covered. So. So I know. So I feel like you have the various generational bases checked off, too. And Cliff is the best. Always wearing his Philly Harm on his sleeve behind the scenes. Okay, that's a long preamble to my question. With LeBron's time with the Lakers seemingly up in speculation about where he should land out in his final seasons abound. I wondered what you think about him going to Golden State next season. The way I see it, adding LeBron, if he was willing to potentially sign a cheaper contract, would give the Warriors a pretty decent shot to finish his career. I also think they'd give him a proper send off and would give Steph a shot at contending one last time as well. Steph, LeBron, Jimmy Butler and Draymond and Horford will be one of the savviest, oldest teams of all time. I hope they play half court. No, those are my words, not them. It'd be entertaining as any gathering. All the old blokes could be, you know, like one big retirement party. I just think it gives everyone something of what they're after. And it'd be funny to see LeBron sticking into KD one last time by going to the Warriors. I always felt like they were real rivals of this fading generation. Thanks for everything you do. Lots of love and respect from the land of oz. Cheers, Paul. P.S. i'm truly in love with Wimby. He's the ultimate torchbearer for the legacy of Pop, Timmy and Manu. Go, spurs, go.
- [75:39]
C
It's great.
- [75:40]
D
No doubt. I didn't know I had beef with spurs fans, man. I didn't.
- [75:45]
B
You do have beef with spurs fans, bro. I.
- [75:47]
C
Why?
- [75:47]
D
I never had.
- [75:48]
B
Because you were a son. Because you were a son. It's because you were a son.
- [75:51]
D
Yeah, but those series. I mean, those series were, like, tough, physical series, but I always felt there was a level of, like, professionalism.
- [76:00]
B
Robert.
- [76:01]
D
Robert Ori. Like, hip checked. Steve. Steve sold the hip check like it was a kerfuffle. It wasn't a fight. It was a fight like the league came in. And I, like. I digress. I digress.
- [76:12]
B
Okay.
- [76:12]
D
I could do that. That wasn't a fight.
- [76:14]
B
You know you're not going to get fined anymore if. If you just say something bad about the league, right? Yeah.
- [76:19]
D
It was complete and utter bullshit.
- [76:20]
B
There you go.
- [76:22]
D
Blown way out of fucking proportion and possibly cost us a chance. Who knows? But we felt really confident about maybe winning the championship. We fucking lose the next game at home, almost, like, don't. I'm not doing this. You almost got me. I'm not going to do it. I'm not doing it.
- [76:37]
B
All right. What do you think about LeBron going to the Warriors?
- [76:41]
C
Yeah.
- [76:44]
A
Yeah.
- [76:44]
D
I don't know if LeBron would. I don't know. I look on paper, I don't know who the hell they're going to guard. Like, I don't know how you're going to. Like, at that age with that many people pushing, they're damn sure not going.
- [76:55]
B
To guard against sciatica.
- [76:57]
D
Yeah, I don't know. But. But I. I think that, like, you know, LeBron is LeBron as LeBron fits into a lot of different systems when he wants to fit into them.
- [77:10]
C
So if.
- [77:10]
D
If. If you said to me, hey, we have a. Like, he. He actually does Draymond's job really, really well on the offensive end of the court if he wanted to do it. You know what I mean? Like, you know, I don't know that he would solely want to do that, but he could fit into something like that. Where the universe is going to revolve around Steph, and we're just going to move, move, move now. He's never played like that. So. So it would. It would. It would. You know, it would take a little time, but he could do that. I just would. I like to see them be viable with Steph LeBron and. And Jimmy Butler and have a chance to win the championship. That would be super dope. I. I don't think that that happens or that they would, though, have a chance to win a championship with that unit.
- [77:49]
B
47 win, tops. But you'll find 47 wins.
- [77:53]
D
I mean. I mean, I don't know, but.
- [77:54]
B
Yeah.
- [77:54]
D
Yeah. I don't. I don't. But I'd love it if they could figure out a way to infuse some youth with that and bring one of them off the bench, and they'd have a chance to win a championship. That'd be super. I'd be tuned in, locked in all year.
- [78:03]
C
You use. You mean he'll bring Bronnie with him.
- [78:09]
B
Sorry. Hey, I don't know if you heard this, Howard. I don't know if you heard this, Howard. Bronny's killing it when he's in the G League. Killing it. Hater.
- [78:17]
C
Sure he is. I want to answer the LeBron thing, but first, real quick, because the listener from Australia alluded to being thankfully far from a lot of what's going on in our country right now. I just want to say real quick, we got a lot of really amazing feedback in the wake of our show last week talking about Minneapolis and everything going on there. So I just want to thank all of our listeners who kind of rode with us through that, because that was a difficult discussion and obviously not a purely sports discussion, and you never know how people are going to receive it. And I was. I was really heartened by how well received that was based on all the feedback I got directly through Blue sky and other channels. So thank you to all our listeners for. For that. LeBron and Steph together, like, listen, you guys, I think know this by now. Like, I am a hopeless sentimentalist. I love the idea of these two guys who were rivals for years and faced off in a gazillion finals and all of that, and then become friends and teammates in the Olympics and are really tight now. So I have a story up on the Ringer.com today about how Steph envisions his final chapters, because we all love the idea of, like, LeBron, Steph, KD, whoever, going out on the highest note because they're all time greats, but it never happens that way. So I. I talked to Steph. That was why I was in Minneapolis. I talked to him about just how he envisions those final stages of his career and what's possible and what, what, what that might look like, especially because it's really hard now to, to envision them winning another championship. They're not ruling it out. Obviously, it's what you want, but. And in the course of that, Steph talked about how he and LeBron, when they talked about a couple years ago during the Olympics about comparing notes on late stages of career. It's not about what you think you can do during the 82 games and playoffs. It's about the off season. And I, that's noted in the story. It's, it's, it's in passing, but it's just, these are the kind of discussions they've had. They talk about how hard it is to get ready for the season. Like it sucks. The, the off season is tough if you're those guys at that stage, that age and as hard as they work. So it's whether, you know, you go as long as you, you can handle the off season, not so much about the season itself. The two of them together would be amazing. We've seen it in the Olympics. Yeah, it's late in their careers. Rogers. Right. Like, like there ain't no defense there. They'd have to do other things. The real problem I think is logistics though. Like LeBron's gonna have to finally ratchet down on the salary by a lot. Like whether it's taking a mid level exception or some other exception or the, the minimum. I mean, if he wants to do that, he can go wherever he wants. And like, I would not rule it out. I, like if I don't think he's going back to the Lakers, I'm not alone in that. And so does he go for, you know, the, the nostalgia tour with Cleveland with probably legitimate chance to win a title, maybe, maybe with James Harden or, or go, you know, take a, take, you know, another big pay cut and go to the Warriors. Like, I don't think there's that many places you can envision him, but LeBron and Steph together would be awesome. I, I would love it even if they don't make it that far in the playoffs. I, I'd love to see it.
- [81:29]
B
I, I think it's a real possibility, to be honest with you. If LeBron takes a, takes a steep pay cut and he's willing to do that and he's going to get the send off, it's gonna have been, have.
- [81:43]
D
There been any reports like I'm Sorry to interrupt you again, but, like, has any, have there ever been any reports from camp about, about what, what, what the priority is going to be for him in the off season?
- [81:53]
B
I like, no, I don't think so. I don't think so. I think. Right. I think there's, I think they're still working their way through that. I mean, I think that Luca trade was a big surprise for and upended a lot of plans for LeBron and his camp on. Because I, I, I think that personally, if all things went right, if the Luca trade doesn't happen, we'd be having a different conversation about how the lakers are celebrating LeBron and how his and his place within the Lakers organization at this point. But the Luca trade happened and the Lakers have other priorities than just kowtowing and LeBron and making a whole spectacle about his pending retirement. But I think that, I think the Cavs are a great, are a great destination for what he wants to do. Like, everybody seems to suggest this is his last year in Los Angeles, and if that's the case, he can go to Cleveland and have his send off in the storybook way. Right. Especially if the Cavs are, you know, teetering and then maybe they want to break it down. I'm not saying that they would or would not, but I think the warriors are, are a possibility as well. Like, I think that he would, you know, he would, the, the allure to play alongside Stephen, the allure to, you know, matter and be in an organization that matters. Right. And just narratively speaking, that would be, you know, a thing that he would do. It would be kind of awkward. The retirement send off, though, in the Bay Area, like, we're, the Bay Area is just like aiding in LeBron's retirement tour. That would be kind. That would be very weird. Especially after all the battles and him being a Laker. It would be awkward. I think the place he should go is Cleveland, if all things are considered. But I do think that the warriors are a possibility. I think he would flirt with the idea of actually doing it. Ultimately. I don't know if he actually would, but I think that he would flirt with the idea of doing it.
- [83:50]
D
There's only one play there. I, I said this before. There's only one place. If I get a vote, if I'm at the LeBron family table and we're taking. It's only one place.
- [84:00]
B
What's that?
- [84:00]
D
Going back to Cleveland. There's only one place.
- [84:02]
B
Okay. Okay. I thought you were gonna say, like, you know, at the next time you go to the clutch brunch, tell them to go back to Miami because it's just fun to have a. You know, you're in Miami. Okay. I don't know. I didn't know what the. I don't know. All right. I think that's the end of our mailbag. Yeah, man. Trade deadline. Little wonky. You know, who knows? You might get a call. Me and Howard. Hey, we might need. James Harden. Just got traded. We might do a topper. But before we do that, get the hell out of here. There's been another edition of Real Ones. My name is Logan Murdoch. That is Howard, Mother Beck, Raja Bell. See you guys on Friday. Or we'll see you when we see you this week. I don't know. The scheduling. We'll see. Maybe there's an emergency pod or something that me and Howard are going to be delirious.
- [84:45]
D
Yeah, Hurry this up, bro. I got to go take a drug test. Bro.
- [84:53]
B
Com. Ah, all this shit's bye. Must be 21 years and older and present in select states for Kansas and affiliation with the Kansas Star Casino. Or 18 and older and present in DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com, call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org backslash chatinconnecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org In Maryland, Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or visit 1-800-327-5050. For 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text Hopeny in New York. For Louisiana, call 1-877-770-7867.