C (3:43)

Fantastic story by Baxter. Great reporting by Baxter, really comprehensive. And, and it's long. So people, if you haven't read it yet, you know, set aside some time. It's worth it. I will just note what is not in Jeanie Buss statement and what is not in anything as far as I know. I haven't listened to our colleagues Rich Paul and Max Kellerman on their podcast just the quote that you just read, Logan. But it seems that the thing that is most absent from both Jeannie Buss statement and Rich Paul's reply to the story is no one is denying anything. Y' all haven't denied a single thing or rebutted a single thing or presented anything to the contrary of anything that Baxter reported. That doesn't mean that they don't disagree. They may, they may just have decided not to go tit for tat on whatever it may be. But I do think it's striking, you know, and when you're in this business, these are the things you look for when people are putting out PR statements or responses or when they've decided, as they did in this case, not to respond to Baxter Holmes's various inquiries to the Lakers and I assume to rich Paul and LeBron's camp in general to verify, rebut comment on any of the things that are in his story. Baxter did his homework and they did not reply or did not present any contrary statements or evidence. And now the story's out. They still aren't. So in the absence of that, they can do, they can say whatever they want to poo poo it and say, oh, it's just more of this bullshit or they're just trying to say this about us or that you haven't refuted anything, guys. Sorry Rich. Sorry Jeannie. You have not refuted anything as of this recording at a little afternoon eastern time on Thursday. Maybe more will come. So I think that's the first thing that people should take away is that this story is inaccurate and accurate. I don't want it to sound like inaccurate, an accurate portrayal of dynamics, primarily to do with Jeannie Buss and the Buss family, the Buss siblings, and all the things that happened on the way to their decision to sell to Mark Walters and his group. But there is definitely some ownership versus LeBron stuff in here. And my takeaway there, guys, is simply this. And this is. This is not to downplay Baxter's reporting at all, but it is kind of what we've already known. Like, there have been tensions along the way. We knew this in real time over the Russell Westbrook stuff right at the time of the Westbrook experiment, which went very badly very quickly, or went sour very quickly. And there was a lot of. Of calls in various quarters by fans, by media that they needed to move on, that this was a mistake. And there was a lot of tension there because the Laker front office was taking a lot of the brunt of that for having gone and traded key pieces to get Russell Westbrook and gone down this road. And the Lakers wanted it known, and they certainly made it known through other channels that this is what LeBron wanted. So the tension between the Lakers as an organization and LeBron and his camp over the Westbrook thing alone, that's on the record and has been there for years. So, yes, there's always been a bit of attention there. There's some other details here that maybe we'll get into about things that, you know, Genie Buss is purported to have said according to the story regarding LeBron. But, yeah, there's been tension, guys. Like, I don't think Rich Paul would deny that. Frankly, I have not had that conversation with him, but I don't think Rich would deny that. I don't even think Jeannie necessarily, or other Laker officials would deny that. There have been some bumps along the way, and they would probably say that, but that. That. That always happens in an organization, and it's true, it does. But there was very much attention about who was to blame for the Russell Westbrook fiasco.

A (7:47)

Yeah, Roger, how important? Like, you know, we. We talk about, you know, it's important to get stars in this league, right? But it's also the most important thing is to manage stars in this league, right? And the Lakers are. Their whole brand is. Is, hey, you could come to la. You can be a star. You can have all of the. All the things that you want. We will make the best environment for stars. You've seen this throughout our history. This is our selling Point here, right in the rig of a row of all of this, does this really even matter if I'm, if I'm another player trying to come here? Or do you look at this as maybe an isolated incident of some sort?

D (8:34)

The Rich Paul comments about, about maybe, was it Austin being traded to, to Memphis, you know, and, and as a player on a team, that might affect me in some way, you know, like if, if my name is in your agent's mouth and your camp's mouth about, about being shipped or traded like that might rub me the wrong way, just frankly. But the rest of it is just what it is, what it's always been with LeBron and Camp, and not in a bad way. He's just, I mean, and correct me if I'm wrong, but, like, you know, when I was around the league, maybe I wasn't as tapped in to the side of it you guys were, but I don't remember a star player and team like LeBron's team operating, you know, as a unit and, and kind of leveraging consistently the position that they were in to hold teams accountable for what they wanted to get done. I think they've done that as well as any camp, you know, in the NBA as a team. And, you know, it's to be admired in some regard. But I don't think it's any different here with the Lakers as it's been anywhere. I mean, I was in the Cavs front office and, and watched the interactions between his side and, and David Griffin and, and, and Dan and, and the ownership of the Cavs. I don't really remember any contentious, like, interactions, but there was always a back and forth. There were always, you know, microaggressions and tensions there because, you know, you're, you're, you're working towards a similar goal, but you're coming at it from two opposite sides. One's trying to protect the future, you know, and the present of an organization. The, the other is solely concerned with winning in the now, and that that's always going to cause a little bit of friction. So I don't, I mean, I, I don't think it's a big deal to what Howard said. Like, we've known this. If you've watched and followed LeBron's career, it's not new and unique to, to the Lakers situation. But I would say again, once it gets to the point of like rich and, and company and I'm one of LeBron's teammates talking about me being traded for the betterment, that, that I would have an issue with probably.

A (10:48)

Yeah. I mean, that's, that's where we are, right? Because you're, you're basically, you know, you're in a, in a state where your hands are tied on both places, right. Like you're still an agent, right. And you still have intimate knowledge of the goings on of an organization. And on one end, you know, this information. And you're around these guys every, every game. You know, Rich Balls, he is outside when it comes to being in crypto. And then you gotta go back and like, see these guys and then talk about them on a platform that doesn't do great for team camaraderi. But the other thing that I'm thinking about this, and I'm gonna go to Howard on this one, is this feels like just late stage LeBron Inc. At this point where this power works. When you are the lead guy, when you are the number one guy, when you do have a certain level of power within the organization, right? And usually LeBron has become, become that guy because of his supreme talent and his supreme, you know, leadership and all of those things that we have seen throughout the years. But now, you know, this is not his team anymore. And I think we're starting to see the fallout in this. Added to the fact that you can do, you know, the power plays when you're with the Cavaliers and try to do them when you're with the Miami Heat, but the Lakers are an entirely different world and organization and ecosystem because they're about championships. And you are not the biggest startup they have ever had in a given time. Right. They are the perfect anecdote to whatever, you know, power LeBron has. How much of this in your mind, Howard is a, is a product of what I just said in, in your mind, right? Where he is like LeBron, Rich Paul, they are losing a bit of control. And over the last year, you've kind of seen the reaction to that behind the scenes things like, you know, the comments that Rich Paul has made. How much of, you know, what we're seeing now is a, you know, a consequence to just how old LeBron is getting in this league in that relationship frame.

C (12:59)

It's interesting, Logan, because we could take this from a couple of different points in the timeline, right? If we're Talking about the LeBron vs Lakers dynamics, the power dynamics of it all, the Luca of it all, and we're talking about starting about a year ago, right? Whatever the date was, was it February 2, the trade. Whenever Luca arrives, things change permanently. Because, yes, LeBron has had more power and ability to, to flex his leverage and to steer organizations that he's with than probably any player in history. And it's funny because you alluded to the fact, Logan, that the Lakers have a long history of all time superstars, right? Legends, hall of Famers, Kareem Magic, Jerry West, Kobe, Shaq, on and on. But those were different times. Like, like even in the era of Kobe and Shaq, even post Shaq, when Kobe had quite a bit of authority, I think nobody has ever flexed the muscles that LeBron has. That's why we call this the player empowerment era. That's why we always allude to the decision in 2010. LeBron has employed and applied his powers in ways that previous superstars in previous eras never did. So this is new to the Lakers and even if Jerry Buss were still alive and running them, it would have been new to him. So this isn't just a current ownership issue. This is about LeBron and the modern superstar. But really what we're talking about right now is because all that's in the background. What LeBron wanted, what he didn't want since he came to the Lakers, all that stuff. Right now the dynamic has changed. It changed a year ago when they got luka and suddenly LeBron became their only their second most important player instead of their first most important player. And Luka's the future. And LeBron is starting to fade into the past for them. He's clearly not fading into the past as a player because he's still, he's still great. And if he wants to play again next season somewhere, my guess is it's not the Lakers, but he's still viable. But he is not the one who can drive the organization anymore. That's Luca, if he chooses to engage on that front, or maybe power reverts back to ownership and the front office. But LeBron and by extension Rich Paul, I think are seeing that that moment is over. Whatever, whatever leverage they had, whatever power they were applying is gone for that organization. LeBron is a free agent at the end of the season. LeBron was not offered an extension last summer. There was obvious tension over that. Rich Paul issued a very long statement last summer about that. So again, none of this is hidden. It's all out there in the open for us to see and read. In the things that Rich Paul has said, in the things that the Lakers have done, that the era of LeBron as their centerpiece is already over. I don't know what the season will bring, but I do think that there's very Good reason to believe that when the summer comes they will probably part ways. That's not intel, that's not anything to aggregate. That's not even a revelation. That's not even a controversial opinion. It certainly seems like this thing has reached its conclusion as a relationship. And I don't, I don't know, I don't know what that means for LeBron where he lands. But the Lakers are going to have a crap ton of cap room and an Austin Reeves free agency to deal with. And the challenge now, not just the challenge, but the obligation now to build a functional roster around Luca, which to date 12 months later, they have not done. And to do that, they're probably going to need to reallocate the money that's currently going to LeBron.

A (16:54)

I just think it's just, I think it's a wild turn of events over the, you know, because when, when LeBron signed, you know, with the Lakers in 2018, everybody felt like assumed that he was going to ride it out with the Lakers. I think he spent more time with the Lakers than he spent with any organ, any other organization, probably outside of the Cavs, you know, combined. But he has had a, a commitment to this organization in a way that he hasn't committed to other places. But now, like, I don't feel like he's going to get what he wants. Roger. Like, what he wants, I feel like is a proper send off and I don't think anyone else is going to send, have a proper send off the way the Lakers would do it. Especially in this present moment. I think of me and I don't know if it was me and you, Roger. Me and Howard were talking about, oh, okay, if he takes the mid level and goes to Denver, like that'll be a good send off. But I don't even think something like that would be necessarily great because there's going to be two agendas at play. It's going to be the LeBron agenda of like, I need to be celebrated and it's going to be the Denver or whoever the contender is, they want to win a title without distractions. So I just don't know the balance that he has going forward here. I don't know what he does. I think that Babe, maybe he's played too, this means he plays too long in the league right now. Like, I just don't know what is, what's, what do here.

D (18:10)

It's a crazy, it's a crazy thing to, to try to wrap your mind around, right, that, that LeBron playing as well as he's playing at a historical level for the age, and having done everything that he's done, we could be having the conversation that maybe he's played too long, right? Like, that seems. That seems absurd. But if his end game is to get every single thing he wants in his last year or two, then the fact is you probably have. Right? Because that rarely happens. Like, it rarely happens that you get everything you want on your way out the door, and then you get to kind of ride off into the sunset. Like, that's. I just trying to on the fly think about someone who. Who was a megastar that, that. That had their ending play out like that. And I. I can't. I can't. So. So, like, I want to just say this. I want to go back to. You talked about the Lakers, because it was a really good point. You. And that's why I think that a place like Cleveland, right, While. While you might still be tasked with trying to. Trying to fulfill two agendas. Winning a championship with this team, sending LeBron off the right way and not have those agendas competing with each other, that distracts. Like, they could still do it. And it's a market and a team that. That, you know, from a brand perspective, I think you can accommodate that. LeBron and Camp, they left like the Miami situation at the end of that was not unlike the Lakers. They had a very. They're not the Lakers traditionally, you know, as a symbol of the league, but they had Pat Riley, and he did shit a certain way, and he was only going to accommodate a certain amount of you, you know, asking and pushing and trying to get what you wanted before he was going to push back. And so eventually that ran its course. So I just wanted to add Miami to that because it was a great point about the Lakers as a brand too big and too established to really push them around in that way. Right. But I do think if. If you were LeBron and company and I'm not talking about from a basketball, how he would fit, what his minutes would look like, what type of player he would be for the Cavs, but they would send him off the right way. He's theirs like that, that that would happen. I don't know where else. I don't think Miami would do that. No one else would have the incentive to do that. Um, you know, it's. This falls into the category that Mello fell into. We've had about the conversations we've had about Russ, and theirs has been on the court, but it's the same thing. Once you're past that prime, and once you're past that ability to help in the way that you traditionally have, you have to cede some of the powers that you have. You have to seed some of the. Some of the expectations that you have, and you have to start trying to figure out how to fit in more than dictate. And that's the situation that they're in right now. It's just what it is.

A (21:03)

Yeah. Howard, what do you think that this. There so many ways we can go about LeBron. We just have this. We only have one segment and a few more minutes left. But what is his legacy going to be for the next generation? Right? You talk about the player empowerment generation that we have all lived through, that I think has done some good things for the. From the player perspective, but it also led to a backlash, right? It also led to the apron era, right? What is that going to do? Is it going to help or hurt, you think the next generation of stars that, you know, this much power was exuded during his time in the league?

C (21:46)

It's interesting because if you look at the young stars now, right, like, put aside the LeBron, Kawhi, KD, Steph, whoever else is still left from that generation, right, Who. Who are all, you know, in their. In their twilight now, right? And by the way, we don't know the outcome yet of the Clippers investigation, but you. You know damn well we all got to put Kawhi in these conversations now. Like, oh, dude, it's so quiet and so unreserved and all this stuff, like, did anybody exert more leverage, more power, more demands than cardboard?

A (22:18)

And LeBron?

D (22:19)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So just.

C (22:22)

Just noting that because LeBron takes the brunt of this positively and negatively, he's credited for player empowerment, he's blamed for player empowerment. He's credited for the way that he set an example for how players can use their wealth and their. Their. Their talent and their importance to great effect. But he's also like, takes. He takes a lot of hits for what people might see as the excesses of that or if they don't like the idea that players could be inflexing that authority in the first place, and a lot of people don't like it. So Kawhi has done his share as well, KD more in terms of just his movement. And Steph has been the prototypical Tim Duncan type, where it's like, do right by me, I'll do right by you, and I want to be here forever, and I'm cool. I'm the low maintenance Superstar type, right? Look at the young generation right now. Shea, Current, you know, the reigning mvp. You know, Giannis is like mid career, mid to late career. And Giannis certainly like, he's struggling with how to use his leverage, authority and whether or not he wants to. Jokic, Anthony Edwards, Jason Tatum, Jalen Brunson. I'm thinking of the guys who were like in the, in the MVP conversation, right? You know, throw Tyrese Maxi in there. He's having a fantastic season. Jaylen Brown, maybe Wembanyama soon or, or soon. Wembanyama's already there. Anybody who's in the top five to top 10 of the, of the league, do any of them feel like they're doing the things flexing in the way that LeBron or Kawhi or anybody else did? Like, I'm not saying the player empowerment era is over by any stretch. They are wealthier than they have ever been at this stage of their careers compared to even where LeBron was at this stage of his career. But I don't see that same kind of. I don't know.

A (24:17)

I would say I, I would, I would do a light push back on that because if history is history is 2020. KD also seemed like a person that wasn't going to leave and he was also touted as the anti LeBron. And I only say that to say this. They're young, so we don't know yet.

C (24:33)

It's not just about leaving, though. It's not just about leaving Logan. It's about using the, the threat of one day leaving or asking for a trade, demanding a trade to get the things you want in the in. Like when's the last time Logan we heard of any player other than LeBron say, you got to go get me XYZ or you got to. I, I need this. When's the last time that was the player steering the organization in a very overt way, or at least an obvious way that we could see detect report on.

A (25:03)

I would say the closest is probably like Giannis, but that was only because of. I think the closest was Giannis, to be honest with you. Right. Because there was always a threat of him leaving and they had kind of resist ceiling with Drew Holiday. He'd probably be the one. But my, my counter and he drove.

C (25:17)

Them to get Drew on the front end for sure.

A (25:20)

My, my counterpoint to that is we just don't know what these young guys, right. We can make assumptions. We don't know how they're going to be. I think most of those people you say Are like, on their rookie deals or probably going just into their second deals, right? So, like, I don't. I don't know what they're going to do when stuff gets bad.

D (25:36)

The other.

C (25:36)

We don't.

D (25:37)

The other, the other thing. Let me just add to it. Howard, I want you to finish your thought, right, because you guys have a good conversation, but like, a lot of those guys, their. Their organizations have gotten them really, really close to it and, and had them in that way. And none of them, for the most part, are. Are like, coming into the league, face of the league, best player unanimously in the league. So, like, it's not. I mean, it's just a point about it, you know what I mean? Like, I don't know what that means to it, but that certainly just a little bit different dynamic there.

C (26:05)

The more important you are to your franchise, whether it's on day one or whether it's on your second contract or whether it's after you've won a championship or whatever it is, whenever you've got the most power or importance to your franchise, that's when you can start to really try to dictate who are the coaches. And again, Giannis has certainly had a hand in some coaching changes in Milwaukee, in addition to the moves that Logan brought up. We're not seeing a lot like, Joel Embiid has certainly exercised a lot of authority in Philadelphia, but again, he's now in his 30s. And Logan's right. I should reel back just a little bit because there's time yet for some of these younger players to maybe do that, but. But I'm not seeing it yet. And so when you ask, like, what's the effect of LeBron's legacy on the player empowerment front? It's interesting to see whether or not this generation, the next generation, continue to throw their weight around in the. In the way that LeBron often did with every team that he's been on. And I'm not saying that's positive, negative, or otherwise. I'm just saying it's a fact. So it's, I guess it bears watching, but I think we're seeing less of it right now than we did, you know, five to 10 years ago.

A (27:17)

I would agree, definitely. Howard motherfucking Beck, ladies and gentlemen, we'll see you on Tuesday. Thanks so much for coming on.

C (27:24)

Gents. Good to see you.

A (27:25)

Gents. Good to see you as well. And next we're going to talk about one of Raj's favorite subjects, Players only meetings.

E (27:36)

A KFC tale. In the pursuit of flavor, the Colonel made his $10 Tuesday bucket so full with eight pieces of juicy, crispy chicken or tenders that it might just last you till Wednesday if you've got that kind of self control. I mean, some people want leftovers, others are more into right nowers. The Colonel lived so we could chicken. 10 bucks, 8 pieces. One big deal with KFC. $10 Tuesdays.

C (28:03)

Prices and participation may vary. Taxes, tips and fees extra.

A (28:06)

All right, and we are back. The Knicks, who are in the midst of a skid, they got ended last night and just crazy fashion, I think they beat the nets by like 50 points. It was, it was a, it was a bit of a bloodbath. But before that, Jalen Brunson after they, the Knicks got blown out by the Dallas Mavericks at home. A couple nights before on Monday night, Jalen Brunson called a players only meeting. He was tired of the shenanigans. He was tired of everything that was going on. When the Knicks got booed after being down by 30 at halftime at the Garden. They won last night, Raja. But are you, does this, is this, is this Knicks thing just too much to bear at this point? What does the players only mean in mid January tell you about where the team is at and where they could possibly be going?

D (29:07)

Where they could. I mean, it tells you they're not in a good place. Players, players only meetings don't happen when shit's going well. Those are called like dinners, you know, those are called nights out.

A (29:20)

Wait, so that's what I'm trying to figure out though, right? Like did. When this particular player is only meeting and I don't have all the reporting. I'm not, you know, Stephan Bondy of the, of the New York Post. I'm not tapped in with the Knicks that much. But as a player's meeting only meeting could just be like, yo, Jalen, just be like, hey, y' all come to my locker real quick. Let's just talk some shit out. Like, could it. What, what do you think that, like this. What is a players only meeting? What exactly is it typically?

D (29:45)

Well, I mean, it could be any number of things depending on who's reporting it, right? But typically, from my experience, it doesn't get reported as a players only meeting unless you've convened like outside of the locker room at, at, at a lead player's request. And you know, it's going to be to address things that aren't usually going well. Again, that would just be. If everything's going well, we're just, we're just doing what we normally do. It's a dinner. We're just out. Those are players only meetings. Almost every road trip. But like. Right, yeah, yeah, throw your credit card in the. In the thing. Maybe we can play some credit card roulette with that. But. But the only one that I've been a part of was with Charlotte. Things were not going well. I forget who called it. It might have been Tyson Chandler or somebody like that. And it was, you know, after practice in a meeting room and it was to get everybody's cards on the table and try to find some, you know, even, you know, understanding in terms of like what roles were going to be and how we wanted to play and so on and so forth. And I don't remember. It wasn't the end of the world. It was relatively early in the season, but it's. Things were not going the way we wanted them to go. So anytime it's reported to a reporter that you're having that players only meeting. Yeah, man, if things aren't going well, where it goes from there, I think depends on the type of human beings you have in that locker room. Depends on the type of leadership you have in place. You know, depends if people just can't get right. Those meetings suck because you have them. And the downward spiral continues. I don't think the Knicks are built like that. I think they have a lot of guys from, from what I can see that care. They have guys that have relationships prior to being Knicks that have won before in, in on certain levels. And so, you know, I think that they could come out on the other side of it, better for it. But you're not in a good place when you have to have a players only meeting. And what concerns me the most about players only meetings is that means, you know, not only are things not going well and you're not producing, but it speaks to something going on and a disconnect between your coaching staff and the team. And that's the scarier part, right? It speaks. And again, I'm not reporting shit. I don't know what's going on there. But they. You only have those meetings when mofos ain't really locked in on what the coach is talking about anymore. When, when, when, when a leader feels necessary to get in there and try to correct some of the things that is falling on deaf ears. Maybe coming from coaches and top brass.

A (32:25)

It seems like there's that divide, you know, just from 3,000 miles away. I saw them play the Warriors a couple of weeks ago and it was on the heels of when Mike Brown just Went at Carl Towns for his lack of defense, and it. It did seem a little excessive. Right. And Mike Brown has. I think that he has transitioned from a guy that kind of just took a lot of these types of defensive lapses on the chin and kind of like, at least in Cleveland during his early part, would just, you know, take a guy to the side, maybe, you know, not call everyone out. But I think as he is kind of matriculated as a coach, he is a guy that's going to test you and come at you. And I saw it in Sacramento with de' Aaron Fox, and that kind of had de' Aaron Fox like, oh, okay, this is. This is not what I thought it was. And maybe we. We need to recalibrate, you know, my positioning here as an organization. In. In the organization. It was the beginning of the end for him when he called Darien out. And you're starting to see that kind of disconnect, at least outwardly with this Knicks team. And this is what I want to ask for you. What is it? I know that all call outs aren't created equal, but when a coach calls you out repeatedly, I feel like that does something to your psyche. When you have to, it feels like family business is going out to. Into the world. How does that. You think that has affected this team right now? And like, how. What is the way to actually do it if you're a coach? Because it feels like there is a growing divide between the players on the court and their coach right now.

D (34:05)

Yeah, I mean, I think obviously calling someone out to the media and put air in your business to a fan base is last resort. I mean, that would happen after, at least for me. Healthy organizations, we've had numerous conversations about this, like, we've had and given you as the player, ample time to like, curb behavior or get on the same page or what have you. If I'm going to put that out to the media, I'm basically at my wit's end or I just made a mistake, you know, and that happens too, sometimes. Sometimes you get up there like they're human beings. They might slip and say some they're not supposed to say, but, like, for the most part, you know what you're gonna say when you get up there. You know you're gonna do that. And it's because this has been festering, lingering. We've addressed it and it's. It's not gotten anywhere. And. And so we're at our last resort. I would just say.

A (35:00)

And I don't.

D (35:01)

Look, I'm not Tapped in with the Knicks, I, I don't, you know, they're not, they're not the team that I'm watching as a fan. And so I'm not as dialed into the day to day, but like, I know this dynamic when you have somebody like Tibbs, right, For all that he wasn't on the offensive side of the ball, I've only known him historically to be in your ass at all times about playing hard, playing tough and defending. And so when that is the consistent message that you're getting, you don't become offended if it gets just a little bit louder because you're used to that. But if you swing the pendulum and I have Mike d' Antoni kind of as like we're going to be offense, typically offensive coaches are way more laid back, way more vibes, way more, way more hands off if you will, freedom, you know, and that's a great thing for offense. But like, if you swing the pendulum to that where like now as a Knicks team and I'm. This is me hypothesizing, I'm not there, but like, if we, if we are vibes and we're going to get this offense together and that's what we're talking about most of the time, because that's what I've been brought in here to correct. And we've started to get it looking a little bit better and all that's happening. And you have a player who inherently isn't like a great defender and really could, like, that's not what he cares about the most. If you then turn around and snap on him in a way about that defense, it's like, yo, what the fuck? Hey, bro, like, chill out. Because he's not used to being dealt with like that by you, you know, and so, you know, I don't know what's going on. But finding that balance, that sweet spot for Mike, because he used to be a defensive guy, he used to be a tough ass, like, you know, and then he had those offensive teams in sack and he's been around a little bit and he, he was in Golden State. But like, you can't let that pendulum swing too far one way to the other. Balance is key. So like the messaging has to consistently, you know, to someone like Cat, especially someone like Cat who isn't a defender by nature. If, if you have someone that already wants to play D, well, you cannot address defense with him for two weeks. And you could come back to that. And he's not going to like let that slide. He cares about it. This is no slight to Carl Anthony Towns. There are plenty of players in the NBA who don't give a fuck about playing any defense. But I'm saying I've played with dudes legitimately, literally, that have said to me, hey, sometimes asking somebody to play defense is just taken away from their offense. Like, high level NBA player told me that. So all I'm saying, I'm saying all of this to say that you have to have balance with that and you have to be consistent with someone who isn't interested in maybe doing those things to the level that you need them to be doing it at. Because if you're not and then you turn around and snap on that player because of that, it could be met with some kind of like, man, he's fucking tripping, bro. Like, I'm not. But if you're consistently on him about it, then you typically don't get that knee jerk response. And if you do, then it's probably somebody you need to get up out of there anyway.

C (38:04)

Yeah.

A (38:05)

My concern is that it's only January, you know, like, this is January of your first year and this is happening. And I mean, and I know Mike and I know that he is always on your ass about defense no matter what. That is his number one thing. The problem is he just doesn't have really great defenders. You know, like, you look at that, he, he does of his best players. Like his two best offensive players are not very good defenders in Jalen Brunson and Carl Towns. Like, you look at that Mavericks game, guys are going under screens on Klay Thompson for behind a three point line. Just simple stuff, right? And I know Brunson is hindered by an ankle injury and that's really hindering his defense. Um, but with Carl Towns, like you see it, it seems like all of this is getting to his head. You know, we talked about his defensive struggles, but his offensive struggles are just as, as bad right now. Right? He's, he's putting up numbers, but like, if you look at it, you know, he's getting the, the weird offensive fouls at the wrong time, right? He's flailing, he's shooting weird threes in the corner and then kicking people in the nuts, right? Like t. Things like that are happening, are happening right now, and you could see that, at least based on his play, that something's in his head because, I mean, you can say what you want about his defense. He's a more than formidable offensive player. He just, I saw him get 20 and 20 a couple of weeks ago. He's really good and a refined offensive player when he wants to be one. And you can just see this kind of going into his head. It's a, I don't have much beyond this. It's a fascinating, you know, soap opera. We just talked about one in the last segment, so I just think we should just keep our eyes on this. Another fascinating soap opera. And Ben Cruz is on the call and I feel sad for him. He should probably get off of it right now because I'm about to talk about his warriors for a quick second. I was at the game the other night and this is, this is going to come out tomorrow, so we'll see what happens, you know, to tonight against the, the Mavericks. But I was at the game and Kaminga got his first, got his first bit of playing time in 16 games when the team was down 30 and got. Tell me, can I get.

D (40:23)

Trying me, bro.

A (40:26)

Go ahead, man. Can I, can I get the point and I'm ask you the question. Yeah, go ahead, go ahead. So he gets in the game, right? And they're down 30 and he gets, you know, he gets 20 points in the second half. Helps the warriors cut the lead down to 11 before they got blown out by 20. And you see the soap opera everywhere. You see Steve, who I'll talk about in a second, I had some reporting that I want to give even more context to and something that I wrote. But you see Steve Kerr on one side who has been at odds with Kaminga, and then on the other side of the bench you see Joe Lacob who was pumping his fist every single time Kaminga makes a play, including a buzzer beater to cut the lead. I think it was to like 15 or something like that. It was very much garbage time type of play and it was one of the loudest cheers that I've heard in Chase center in the season. And it was, it was just incredible. I just don't know where the warriors go from here. This is probably one of the most toxic type of environments that I've seen in a long time. But what does that tell you about where they are, where the fans are cheering in the way that they are, the owner is cheering in the way that he is and you still lost by dub.

D (41:47)

They're human beings. Coaching, playing, running organizations gets personal sometimes. Sometimes you can't. Like what's your old coaches saying? What's your, what's his name? I should know his name by now.

A (41:58)

Because Alonzo Carter sack State Hornets get your feelings out the.

D (42:04)

I mean, yeah, but clearly that's not the approach that's been taken in Golden State because feelings are in it. And, and that's. It's personal.

A (42:14)

Right?

D (42:15)

Like, we could. Like, why. I mean, I feel like. I know I'm saying it, I'm not tapped into. Like. But people can't agree to that. Like, am I the only person saying this?

A (42:23)

This is.

D (42:24)

People are telling me that that dude is that bad of a basketball player on that team that he's relegated to only getting in. In those minutes. I'm the only out here saying that.

A (42:33)

You're not the only out there. There's plenty of out there saying that.

D (42:37)

Yeah, because like, that shit's crazy. Like, you know, and I, I'm a fan of Steve Kerr. Like, I like what Golden State's done, but like, they've mismanaged that. He. So Kaminga and his camp have as well. Like, let me, let me not. Because, like, absolutely, that's a two way street, but that's a mess.

A (42:53)

My thing is this though, man. If you didn't like him, trade him years ago, right? If you, if you did just come to a consensus and just let him go about his way, right?

D (43:03)

You know what I love though? You know, I love Logan. I'm sorry, dog. Because I got a little heat. I love the. Hey, the. Got to be a market.

A (43:09)

But hey, look, that was hella funny. I was in the. I was in the room when that happened.

D (43:13)

It was fine, Mike. Fine, Right? Fine. Dude, we got you. But like now, right, because of the show that you. That this has become like the market might not be what it should be, but you're telling me there wasn't a time where you could have got something for him. The, the context within that is like you might not have gotten all that you wanted to get for him. Like, you're setting the market, you know what I'm saying? Like there was some market for that. You can't convince me that there wasn't.

A (43:45)

I want to give some context to that and that that isn't a necessarily a. A Mike Dunleavy thing. It's a Joe Lake of thing. That's why, that's why I presented it with Joe Lake of being the one that's fist pumping. Like, yeah, like, I was right. Because, you know, he, you know, we got the, he got the buzzer meter. He's doing all these things. I was right. But you. That really showed just the infighting that's always been around when it comes to Kaminga. They try to go try to make a trade or try to to even broach the topic of making a trade. And you have Joe Lego like, nope, we're not doing that. He's going to be a star. He's going to be. And that. And that's like, yesterday I put out a piece, a column talking about just the overall, just toxicity that we're talking about right now. But there was a graph in there where I talked about a lot of people around Steve Kerr, including a lot of his assistant coaches, are operating under the premise that he's not going to be back next year. But a lot of that has to do with the fact that he doesn't feel like, you know, his voice is. Is. Is mattering as much as it used to, because the. Of the firm grip that. And also what we've seen with, you know, does he want to deal with Draymond? Does he want to deal with just everything that is just going on throughout this season? Right? And like, I could take the bag or I can go to a beach in San Diego and just chill and just not have to deal with this anymore. And that's the things that we're starting to see coming into fold right now. It's just so stressful within that organization. It is tense. It used to be you go to Chase, you go to Oracle, it's vibes, it's awesome. Now it's just like, I clearly don't like Kaminga's. Like, I clearly don't like you, you clearly don't like me. What are we doing? Right? And then you put the Jimmy Butler injury on top of that. It's really tough. I don't even know what's going on. It was. But it was. It was tough the other night when I was there.

D (45:36)

Yeah. That's unfortunate. Yeah. I mean, again, I don't want to paint this as, as just a, A, A, A organizational issue and it's all their fault. Like, obviously him and his team are. Are culpable in this too, but all the way mismanaged and unfortunate and, and, and in my estimation, as humble as it is probably avoidable if. If. Right. Like, if. If we were all on the same page and we were being run. Well, avoidable. And that sucks.

A (46:07)

My thing is this, though, and we, we don't talk about it because we have more important things to discuss, like real one of the week in about five minutes. But my thing with this is, this is how dynasties end. It's over a lot of just trivial that just adds up. Right? Like, it's just. Okay, we don't, we don't vibe you don't vibe with this roster coming, okay, let's just send you about your way. Right, but that sounds simple. But then when you talk about all the personalities that are in the room that are like, you know, Lake of. I know more than the basketball people. And then it's Steve who's like, bro, I won, like, 10 titles. I've done all of this. Right. Dunlavey's caught in the middle of it. Without Bob Myers to kind of make sure to put everybody in the room and be like, yo, it's going to be all right, guys. Let's just. Let's let cooler heads prevail. But it's just that it's. When you're around each other this long in a relationship, the little. The. The little things add up. And I think that's just what we're seeing here. And Kaminga is the face of it right now. And the Jimmy Butler injury doesn't help because we talked about the last episode, but it's just tough there, man. I don't. It's just so many sad faces.

D (47:16)

No, that sucks. And, I mean, I. I feel bad for all of them because I never want to see, you know, dysfunction like that. Like, I. I know what it feels like to be in that, and it sucks. But the person I feel the worst for, I will say again, is like, someone who has done everything that Steph has done and is still doing what he's doing at this age, at his level, it just feels exponentially. I feel exponentially worse for him that he's in that.

A (47:42)

Yep, it's tough. It's tough. All right, let's do our one of the week. Ready to do her one of the week?

D (47:51)

Yeah, dog. Let's go, bro.

A (47:52)

What was your one of the week?

D (47:54)

This is an easy one for me. The college football playoffs just wrapped up. My dog told. Hey, dog, my dog told you to Google him Years ago. Like, when people asked about how he was getting people to come to his team, he said, he wins. Google me. Kurt Signetti, head coach of the Indiana Hoosiers, this year's College football National champions. I had the Miami Hurricanes winning. They. They came up a little bit short, but hat tip. To. To. To.

A (48:25)

Were you okay, bro? Okay.

D (48:29)

But look, I'm a Miami fan at heart, but I am a Texas football fan, so, like, I cheer for the Hurricanes, you know, if they ain't playing Texas, but, like, my blood ain't running orange and green anymore. It's running burnt orange. Can you dig what I'm saying? It's running for orange these days though. But curse Ignetti is a G. Like wasn't getting the opportunities probably that he thought that he should get and decided he was going to take the hard way and come up through the ranks like coaching at sub levels of, you know, college football.

A (49:03)

Yeah.

D (49:03)

But even before that he was at. I forget where he was before James Madison. Right. Like he was somewhere else before he got to the, to, to the, the group of six. But he just wins everywhere he goes and that's pretty remarkable. Fernando Mendoza. Shout out like to him too. He's from the crib. His story was, was one that, that resonates with me. Right. Because like I know whatever star recruit like didn't have the options to go to the Miami's of the world. And he even said it in his postgame like they didn't want me as a walk on and like that. And you know, he had to make himself. And so you know, as someone who had to do that, I appreciate that for both of them. Fernando and Kurt. So like real one of the week. Kurt Signetti. Real one of the week part B or number two, Fernando Mendoza for sure.

A (49:47)

I'mma give mine to and you know, shout out for shout out. Mendoza, he showed some heart. I hope he does. I hope he changes the franchise, you know. You know, I hope he hope it works out. You know, 5 and 12 season on the way. If you weren't on the bandwagon when we were 2 and 14, don't come on the bandwagon when we 3 and 13. Okay. Just don't do it. Don't do it, don't do it. My ruin of the week is one Naomi Osaka. You know, I had to wear the gear today. You know, she, they, she's. She's balling at the Australian Open and just getting hate. They was, they was hating on how she dressed. And then this morning I get up and I wake up to some news that they hating on her again. Because did you see, did you see what happened last night? Did you see the, did you see the exchange with her?

D (50:39)

I didn't watch the whole, I didn't watch the whole match, but I didn't watch what.

A (50:41)

You know, her opponent was mad that she kept saying come on in between sets. Like, come on, bro. Come on, bro. What are we doing, dude? What are we doing?

D (50:52)

Well, in fairness, the girl, the girl was, she was complaining that she was doing it in between serves. But like you're not even in your service mode. Like you're not.

C (51:01)

You.

D (51:01)

You ain't got the ball yet. You're not in your pre serve routine. Like, come on, dog, I'm with you on that, but like, I'm with splitting hairs. I want to clean it, but come on, bro.

A (51:10)

I get what you're saying, but like, come on, man. Also, you complaining all that. You're getting yourself psyched out of the game. Look at the scoreboard. Focus on the game. Focus on the match.

D (51:19)

Yeah, that speaks more to your lack of like, mental toughness than it does to, like, anything Naomi was doing. Straight up.

A (51:26)

Yeah, man, you know, people telling us she's like, she's a. A contradiction, cuz she's. She coming out here putting that on, you know? Do you see that?

D (51:35)

Google it.

A (51:37)

They. They out here hating on Naomi. And I'm here to tell you the buck stops here. We out. We. We riding for Naomi out here. They hating on her entrance. She putting that on, man. You know what I mean?

D (51:47)

What did she do?

A (51:48)

I have to look this up.

D (51:49)

What did she do in her entrance? Like, what did we do? Who have we offended by this? We've offended the tennis, the crowd, the Wimbledon crowd, man.

A (51:56)

She walked out with the jellyfish inspired flowing green and white outfit, accompanied by one of them church hats that was icy and then had a veil. And just like she had. She put her fit on. Like, they. They hating on her the way they hated on Serena, the way they hated on Venus. We know what time it is, is all I'm saying. Okay? It ain't even about the game. All right. All right. Yeah. Hey, shout out. Shout out to Naomi. Salute.

D (52:22)

Don't be apologizing no more. Naomi. Like, I seen her at the press conference and I appreciate, I thought she handled it really well. But don't be apologizing to them, folks. You don't gotta apologize.

A (52:31)

Apologize. Hey, hey. She did, she did stun after she won, after she got the handshake, she was like. Or whatever. Yeah, whatever. As you should. All right. Ruin of the week. Naomi Osaka. You know what time it is? That has been another edition of Real Ones. We will see you again on Tuesday. Real ones. Mailbag. Gmail.com realwinsmailbag gmail.com realonesmailback gmail.com we are going to make a great effort to answer your questions. We're trying, bro. We're trying. I don't know what you want me to do. A great effort will be made. That's all I got for today. Tap in all the shits. Bye.