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The Ringer NBA Show
Jimmy Goes Down (and So Do the Warriors). Plus, the Wolves’ West Finals Chances and More Playoff Future Questions | Group Chat
01:08:47
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- [00:00]
Justin Varior
This episode is brought to you by Hyundai at the Hyundai Getaway Sales Event. Get deals so right it almost feels wrong. Now's the best time to get that Hyundai car or SUV you've always wanted. Like the bold and super stylish Elantra or the Tucson with next level tech and safety features. Plus, every new Hyundai comes with America's best warranty and three years or 36,000 miles of limited complimentary maintenance. Don't think you can get away with all that? Think again. But don't wait. The Hyundai Getaway Sales Event is going on now. Visit your local Hyundai dealer today. It's a great day for a new Hyundai. You're listening to the Ringer NBA show presented by FanDuel. America's number one sportsbook is the best place to bet on the NBA because not only does FanDuel have all your favorite player props, but now you can even check out stats and recent performance trends right in the app before you make your picks. Just download the FanDuel sportsbook app today to get in on the action. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available and listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus and present in select states. Gambling problem. Call 1-800- GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com hello and welcome to Group Chat. I am Justin Varior and joining me, a couple of Encore Blood enthusiasts like our friend Joe Missoula. Rob Mahoney, Big Waz Gentlemen, Pod two of the postseason. How you doing?
- [01:46]
Rob Mahoney
Too bloody. Not bloody enough. What is Joe Missoula's problem? And I say that in many different respects.
- [01:53]
Big Waz
I think it's going pretty good. Been enjoying ourselves. Tonight was a bit of a slog, but we soldier on. You know what I mean? Like you, you gotta take the bad with the good. You can't have the Kawhi Leonard miracle game. This is true. Without the Jimmy Butler hip and ass contusion game. So it is what it is.
- [02:15]
Justin Varior
That's my approach to podcasting as well. You know, just throw the bad ones out.
- [02:20]
Rob Mahoney
What were our bad ones, do you think?
- [02:22]
Justin Varior
Do you want to go through the whole. The whole course of them if you got them?
- [02:25]
Rob Mahoney
Top of mind?
- [02:28]
Justin Varior
None come to mind. But you know, there were some down, some fallow periods probably toward the end of the season, I would say when we maybe when we did 40 minutes on the trailblazers together and afterward we were like, man, we probably could have gone an hour.
- [02:42]
Rob Mahoney
That was Tough. Even in a pod where we were clearing out for the bet bad teams, that was way too much. Trailblazers. I apologize to everyone listening to group chat.
- [02:49]
Justin Varior
I do not. I would do it again. I will do it again.
- [02:53]
Rob Mahoney
Any.
- [02:54]
Justin Varior
Anyone pound any chicken Alfredo before this pod?
- [02:57]
Rob Mahoney
We gotta talk about this, dude.
- [02:59]
Big Waz
I don't know the last time I had chicken Alfredo. It's like kind of a dish that I'm almost morally opposed to for some reason. Yeah.
- [03:09]
Rob Mahoney
What's your moral standing on? Is it against the chicken or the Alfredo?
- [03:13]
Big Waz
The heavy cream of it all? It's like, I don't know, like, for some reason, like, if you put a lot of butter in something, I'm fine with it. But, like, I watch people on YouTube just dumping cream into something, and I'm like, this doesn't seem right. I feel like this shouldn't be a tactic that we go to so often in the. In the culinary game.
- [03:36]
Rob Mahoney
For context, for anyone who may be far afield, we learned via the broadcast tonight that chicken Alfredo is apparently Jalen Green's pregame meal, which I would say explains a lot about some of his performances.
- [03:48]
Big Waz
He's also 22.
- [03:49]
Rob Mahoney
This is true, Derek. Derrick Rose was eating gummy bears for, like, three straight years. Like, these guys can eat anything at that age.
- [03:55]
Justin Varior
I feel like Alfredo is kind of like the fluffernutter of. Of, like, the pasta realm. It's just like an unholy concoction that is similar enough to what you're going for.
- [04:06]
Big Waz
It's also the type of thing. I wonder if people see it as a go to dish. Like, they see it on a menu and say, ooh, I need to get that past the age of 30. Right? Like, that just doesn't feel like something adult human beings are doing anymore. But hey, I might be wrong.
- [04:20]
Rob Mahoney
I think it's. It's a natural evolution. You know, you start with a buttered noodle, you make it to a chicken Alfredo. I would just like to introduce all of you, starting with Jalen Green. Let me introduce you to our friend Carbonara. You know, a slightly elevated version of a mostly similar kind of flavor profile.
- [04:35]
Justin Varior
Well, if you're surprised by this, five minutes of pasta talk. Let me. Let me. Let me preview our second segment of today, which is that we're going to talk about some possible surprises going forward. So we're going to talk about today's Rockets and Warriors game, but then we're going to, like, look at what types of things might surprise us based on the action we've seen thus far. That's the best way to probably present it. But first we had a game, nightcap game that we thought was going to be pretty high, intense action like in game one. Unfortunately, Jimmy Butler took a hard spill there pretty early in the game. He was out, and the game was pretty much wrapped up from there. The warriors did their best to. To stay to them. Some better than the other, some being maybe Pat Spencer, the others being perhaps Jonathan Kaminga. Was this scene unfortunately, just like one that the warriors had to punt after Butler went out.
- [05:27]
Big Waz
Yeah, this felt like that classic game too, where, you know, the team that lost Game one is going to come out with a haymaker and try to prove like, all right, we know we need this game and we have to come out with a certain level of assertion and authority and aggression, quite frankly. And the Rockets did that. And it felt like the warriors were like, okay, we've been here a million times before, we know what you guys are about to do, but we're just gonna stay the course and it's gonna be fine. Like, you know, the rockets went up 10, they were up nine. And it felt like the warriors were just like, we just keep this within like 7 points or so, not let this thing get too out of hand, and we're going to be fine. And then of course, Jimmy Butler damn near bursts his spleen on a freaking play that he ended up shooting the free throws and did not come back. And that was just unfortunate. Yeah. And it just snowballed downhill from there.
- [06:25]
Rob Mahoney
Just a really nasty fall. And we're still waiting for more news on Jimmy Butler. He's going to get an mri. The good news is that there are a couple of off days. I think the warriors and the Rockets don't play again until Sat.
- [06:35]
Big Waz
Saturday. Yep.
- [06:36]
Rob Mahoney
So maybe there's a little more time for him to be on the mend. But it did not look good. It was a really hard, really painful fall. And frankly, it's the kind of thing where even if he did come back, you could see it affecting his mobility, certainly his verticality, like the rebound where he fell. He was skying for those kinds of rebounds in this series so far. Like, that's a different sort of Jimmy Butler that allows you to play small when he is that athletic. That's hard to do with the busted ass tailbone. Like, it's really hard to do when you're in that kind of pain. So we'll have to see one, can he come back? Two, what does he even look like? And if he's in any kind of compromise form, what does that mean for Golden State's offense? That's an awful lot of trouble maintaining scoring runs without him.
- [07:15]
Justin Varior
So they're officially calling this a pelvic contusion, which makes it the third pelvic contusion for the warriors this season. I don't know if I've seen a single pelvic contusion, but now we've had a big three of them in Golden State. It looked more of like a tailbone hit, more of like a back butt sort of thing, but he fell super hard on it. I saw some people talk about like that was a men undercutting him almost as a dirty play. But if you look the he clearly gets pushed because in fact Draymond ends up nudging him in part because Pajemski couldn't ward off Stephen Adams, who nudges Draymond, who nudges him into Amend Thompson. It was a real domino's action that just led there. And so it's super unfortunate because I think you are worried if you're the warriors that something like this might happen to Jimmy. It has happened in recent years that he'll just get things and dents that leave him out for a game or more than that. But for this to be like the absolute flukiest situation, it's the worst possible scenario. Cause you saw what happens when he's not in there. They just, they just can't replicate his two way value.
- [08:17]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, well, they can't even fill the minutes, frankly, like when you're getting into the, the Pat Spencer, Jonathan Kaminga minutes. And granted Brandon Pajemski was also ill for this game. He wasn't feeling a hundred percent. He wasn't entirely himself. But who else does goals they have to go to if Jimmy Butler can't play?
- [08:32]
Big Waz
I mean, we saw what this team looked like with the Andrew Wiggins situation. It wasn't much better than what we saw after Jimmy went out. So I'm not surprised that they weren't able to sort of make this more competitive, especially again. The rockets are down 01. They're at home. The series they know is basically over if they lose the first two at home. And so it's like as early as we are in the playoffs, it's this, this is a version of a do or die game for the Rockets. And you know, not having Jimmy in the under those circumstances is tough.
- [09:07]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [09:08]
Justin Varior
So Jalen Green took the opportunity and ran the fuck away with it. 38 points, hit eight threes on 18 attempts. I never know what to Do Rob with a good Jalen Green performance because there's always that nagging thing in the back of your mind. Like there's a ton of evidence that suggests otherwise.
- [09:27]
Rob Mahoney
Right. But.
- [09:29]
Justin Varior
But I got to give them. They needed someone with pop. Obviously they had the size advantage that bore out in the first two games. But to have this, I mean, I guess is it replicable is the big question here.
- [09:39]
Rob Mahoney
I don't think IME Udoka knows what to do with a good Jalen Green game. Sometimes, like the Rockets existentially are trying to figure out who Jalen Green is. And to get to see him do this in a playoff moment, in an important one, as you outlined was. That's huge. Right? This is a really important data point for Jalen Green's career. The shooting kind of is what it is. And he's going to streak one way or another. We've seen that often enough. For me, it was more coming out of the gate, driving hard, making plays, not letting himself get shut down by defenders who shouldn't be able to stay in front of him. Digging in defensively, getting out in transition. That's all stuff that's within his power to do all the time. And frankly, needs to be within his power every game of this series. Like, they don't necessarily need him to be a 38 point per game superstar, but they need him to be someone who gets utility points, who makes important plays using his athleticism. He's one of the most athletic players on the floor. You should be able to get by Steph one on one. You should be able to get by some of these guys on the break if you're kind of starting off in a similar place. And so seeing him realize that he's allowed to make quick decisions with the ball, that's a huge step forward. The shooting is amazing. It was awesome to watch, but we'll kind of see how it goes game to game for him.
- [10:48]
Big Waz
Yeah. And Jalen Reed is a player that, you know, we know he's capable of doing this every now and again, but I. I'd be shocked if this changes Golden State's approach to how they defend this guy. Um. You dare Jalen green to take 18 three pointers again? That's like that. That's a beautiful trade off for any defense. And I gotta admit, some of these were like, they were already up 13, 14 points. He's wide ass open. There's no pressure on it. Jimmy's already out. They understand the warriors are walking wounded. Um, so I look it, I'm happy he came through for them. I've been a Jalen Green sort of optimist early on in his career, so I'm happy to see him do well under this context. I don't know that this is the start of some new level of Jalen Green in the playoffs that's been unlocked.
- [11:43]
Justin Varior
I think the takeaway for me was how different the team looks when they have someone like this step into the void. Because in the first game it was funny because they had the size advantage and they practically like tripled them up on the boards. There's such an advantage with Adams or Sengun on the court and when both of them are there, they're just mauling at this point. But they just needed someone after they got the rebound to do something with the ball to actually score it. And unfortunately a lot of their best options are just bonus guys. It's like it's Brooks, it's Eason, it's a men these guys that you would hope that there would be four other players on the court who did all those stabilizing and then they can go just be chaos agents essentially they can knock down a three or in men's case he could just do whatever the you can do. Just. I keep thinking back, like if it's Green, it's great, but they need that every single game. And I can't stop myself from thinking like, man, if they just had like a KD type in that role, how dangerous this team could be because like there are certain advantages that have come to the fore in this series. They just need the 30 points per game guy in order to bring them to that next level.
- [12:50]
Rob Mahoney
Not even the 30 points a game guy, just like the solid 24 but reliable and one on one situations guy, like the one who as you say, is preventing Fred Van vliet from shooting 19 times in game one and in some ways would prevent Jalen Green from having to do this in a game two situation. Right like that you could lean on an even surer, more veteran hand. But this is, this is a good outcome for Jalen Green. I, I think it, it does put them in that delicate place though where this isn't who he's going to be all the time. Uh, Fred, you would expect is going to have to hit shots at some point in this series if the Rockets are going to advance because those other guys are not like, not only are they not going to hit them, they're not even going to take them. And so who, who is going to be hitting from the perimeter? Who's going to be creating out of those second chance opportunities that are not just put backs. I thought this was a pretty good Shangun game overall, and I thought he was like, wily enough attacking both smaller guys and going head to head with Draymond. Just like making shit work, I thought was a really important mechanism for the Rockets offense, but they are a team that's going to win defense first basically every timeout with this version of their roster.
- [13:49]
Justin Varior
I think you have to give Sengun a lot of credit, especially in that game one. He has an advantage, but he's pressing on it in ways that you would hope he would like. He.
- [13:57]
Rob Mahoney
He is.
- [13:57]
Justin Varior
He's got the opportunity and he's taking the most of it. The little baby hook was definitely falling in the first game and, like, he's just doing enough at that position in order to get by. We got a tweet from our friend Harjap Sani who suggests that Sengun is basically the Boris Diao of Nikola Jokic's now.
- [14:18]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [14:19]
Justin Varior
Do you guys care to unpack that one? Do you agree?
- [14:21]
Rob Mahoney
I like this better than, like, the poor man's Jokic or like the, you know, store brand Jokic. Adding the Boris Diao element I think is very important. There is a certain, like, mysterious, unknowable element to what Alperine Sengun is going to do on a possession to possession basis. Like the. The whirling dervish aspect of his game that is a little less calculated and a little more Boris Diao just slinging passes out there. So I. I see the vision of this one, to be honest with you.
- [14:49]
Big Waz
Yeah. I think what it meant for me is that on the scale of being as good as Nikola Jokic is and completely not. And we throw NBA players on different parts of that scale.
- [15:04]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [15:05]
Big Waz
Wherever prime Boris Diao lands on that scale is where.
- [15:11]
Rob Mahoney
No, I think it's more nuanced than that. I think it's within that Nikola Jokic player type. The big playmaking center.
- [15:21]
Big Waz
He's a Boris Diao level. Yeah.
- [15:23]
Rob Mahoney
He's not a Boris Diao level. He's a Boris Diao esque version of that player. You know, he has the essence of a Boris Diaboris.
- [15:31]
Big Waz
Diao played like Nikola Jokic?
- [15:35]
Rob Mahoney
I think more the opposite. If Nikola Jokic played like Boris Diao.
- [15:40]
Justin Varior
I think that Sengun is probably more of a physical, like, burly version of Boris Diao. That's what I would say.
- [15:49]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, that's a. That's a great call.
- [15:50]
Big Waz
Sure.
- [15:51]
Justin Varior
Even though tonight I believe he had like a set Shot without jumping from where?
- [15:56]
Big Waz
He did not jump outside of the restricted circle.
- [15:58]
Rob Mahoney
He was expecting someone to guard him, and no one ever did. So he was like, I guess I'm just gonna take eight seconds to fire up this little set shot. I'm gonna measure, I'm gonna aim. I'm gonna let go. Knocked right in.
- [16:09]
Justin Varior
On the flip side of this, I think we could probably write off the Jonathan Kaminga curveball aspect of this series at this point.
- [16:16]
Big Waz
Someone kept telling me he has more to give than he's been allowed to. That's what's happened in my text for two days.
- [16:22]
Justin Varior
When Pat Spencer got on the court, I believe they checked in at the same time. It almost seemed like Spencer had been thinking the entire game. Throughout every play. He was imagining where he would be on the court and what he would do in that scenario. And it seemed like Jonathan Kaminga just woke up from a nap. He was just a total mess. Maybe he just didn't assume he was going to play because he hasn't of late, but I don't know. Wise. I just. I don't see it.
- [16:46]
Big Waz
If you stay ready, you ain't got to get ready. Like, come on, brother. Like, this is your moment to prove Steve Kerr wrong and say that this guy doesn't understand the abilities that I have and what I could do for this team in terms of helping them win. Like, this is your moment, and what do you do? Shit the bed. Horrible.
- [17:04]
Rob Mahoney
In some fairness, when he came out, he was. You could see he was, like, trying to do the right things. I'm going to roll hard to the rim. I'm going to try to make plays for other people. It was sloppy. It wasn't in concert with the rest of the offense. It fit. It play out exactly how you would expect a guy who has not been playing NBA basketball, suddenly thrown into a highly physical series to play out. I never really got this angle, this idea that Jonathan Kuminga, because of his athleticism, was going to play in this series and was going to be a factor as a counter to the Rockets. It's like, I don't know if you've met Tari Eason and the guys who are on the other side of this. They are just as physical, just as athletic, and have their heads screwed on, at least in a slightly different way that's a more conducive to team basketball.
- [17:45]
Big Waz
Guys, why are we pretending that Steve Kerr is somehow just like, he just can't bring himself to play this guy over? Pajemski and Moody and Buddy Hill like, and Steve Kerr just, he just. It's just killing him. Like, bro, he would love to play you over these cats. You're just not good enough. That's it.
- [18:05]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [18:05]
Justin Varior
The problem is it seems like all the typical Jonathan Kaminga issues, plus it seems like his confidence is shot now. And now I don't really know how to reconcile that because they were in some pretty high stakes games toward the end of the season. Like, you really couldn't sacrifice those Kaminga minutes in order to, in game 82, make a go of it in the playing games, all that other stuff. But not playing him even a couple minutes, man, just seems like there's no way coming back for this, the off season for him, whatever is going forward. I. I don't know, man, because you got to bring them back in some capacity or you just got to cut.
- [18:36]
Big Waz
The qualifying off for his ass. You get the qualifying offer, fam. We'll.
- [18:41]
Rob Mahoney
We'll get there when we get there. But I think this coming of stuff does highlight the Butler discrepancy again, where it's. It's not just Jimmy scoring or Jimmy's passing, but like the savvy that you're getting from Jimmy Butler versus what you're getting from these various Golden State role players, it's just not comparable by any stretch of the imagination. Like, you, you really miss that in a game like this.
- [18:59]
Big Waz
His poor.
- [19:02]
Justin Varior
So anything beyond the Jimmy, obviously we're going to learn more about his injury going forward for this one.
- [19:08]
Rob Mahoney
Is there any Rocket that Draymond Green does not have a discreet and separate beef with?
- [19:14]
Big Waz
I love.
- [19:17]
Rob Mahoney
Honestly might be so much. He's straight up, just going down the lineup like, it's incredible.
- [19:22]
Big Waz
This is a war. This is a battle.
- [19:24]
Rob Mahoney
Game three. You read Shepherd Beef. I can't wait. He's gonna pick him up off the bench and suplex him.
- [19:29]
Justin Varior
Your mustache isn't as good as Pat Spencer's. I think Draymond almost pulled the LeBron fake on the floor, like peeking behind his eyes moment at one point because that flopper he did get hit in the face.
- [19:42]
Rob Mahoney
The Jalen Green elbow kind of like forearm to the face situation.
- [19:47]
Big Waz
Yeah, yeah.
- [19:48]
Justin Varior
There was like a 5 second, like, TV delay on that one.
- [19:51]
Big Waz
Yeah, they're always accentuated the contact for sure.
- [19:54]
Justin Varior
Yeah. So I guess that's what we're looking forward to going forward, Rob.
- [19:58]
Rob Mahoney
I mean, what I'm looking forward to is whether Jimmy Butler can play and if he's not, what is plan B for Golden State's offense? Because this is a. This is A real. This is a worst case defense to have to grind out games against. You don't want to be in a position where you're lacking firepower against the Rockets. If you've got it, it plays out like game one. You're in control. You have a lot more to dictate. Yeah, you got to deal with the physicality and the rebounds, but you can get through. You can get by if you have Steph and Jimmy out there together. If you don't, now you're in the mud with these guys, and you simply do not want to be there. You absolutely do not.
- [20:30]
Big Waz
So here's the thing. Good offense beats good defense. You know, we never say mediocre offense beats good defense because it doesn't. You're not going to beat a good defense with the players that are around Steph Curry sans Jimmy Butler.
- [20:45]
Justin Varior
All right, let's take a look at some of these other series now, because I believe every single series has gone past game two. So everyone's flipping to the road locations now at this point. Good time to, like, take a snapshot of everything that's going on throughout the league. Here's. Here's the gimmick we're going with. How surprised would you be on a scale from 1 to 5? If. And then I will give you the scenario. One, not that surprised at all. Five, shocked. Like, if I heard that Rob had canceled a TV podcast in order to do a group chat, can you even imagine? I would be stunned. You know, that's. That's the level of five we're going with right now.
- [21:25]
Rob Mahoney
That's the most unfathomable thing you can imagine these days.
- [21:28]
Justin Varior
Yes.
- [21:29]
Big Waz
You know what's funny? Didn't Joanna Robinson move to la?
- [21:34]
Rob Mahoney
No, no, she's still here in the Bay.
- [21:36]
Big Waz
Oh, she's still in. Is she moving to la?
- [21:38]
Rob Mahoney
I don't know.
- [21:39]
Big Waz
Oh, I thought she moved out. And I was like, is that why Rob moved out here? So he could be closer to his TV partner?
- [21:46]
Rob Mahoney
Okay, relax. Also, have not. Have not moved out there. For the record, still in my Bay Area closet. We're living wise.
- [21:53]
Justin Varior
You want to move to Portland? We can get something going up here.
- [21:55]
Big Waz
Absolutely not. Much love to the Pacific Northwest with no shot.
- [22:01]
Justin Varior
We could split the lawn mowing duties. I'm having a good time.
- [22:05]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah. How are you doing with the mower? How's the yard work going?
- [22:08]
Justin Varior
Oh, you don't want to start this conversation, man. We'll go longer than the trailblazers conversation about the plants and tomatoes, though. So what's up okay. All right. First one up on the board. This game or this series played out early on, but unfortunately the heats valiant effort was for not they go down 02 to the Cavaliers, but full court fits alum Davion Mitchell showed out yet again. 18.6 assists and a rebound in the losing effort. So my question was to you is how surprised would you be if Davian Mitchell becomes one of the hardest working, best conditioned, most professional, unselfish, toughest, meanest, nastiest players in the NBA?
- [22:50]
Big Waz
Not surprised at all. It's kind of always been his M.O. to be a dog, quote unquote, to be the kind of guy that's going to chase dudes around screens and guard 94ft. A less annoying Pat Bev, if you will. Right. And the question was, will this guy ever make threes consistently? Will he ever, you know, will his handle get up to snuff? And I don't know, man. These last three weeks in Miami, he's looked like a bonafide point guard straight up. The defense hasn't gone anywhere. He's still like top notch in that regard in terms of effort and positioning and all of that stuff. But now he's making threes. It's crazy. And he's taking them with confidence. The form looks good. The rotation, the arc, it's like it's a real shot. It's not like sometimes certain guys have weird jumpers and they got this shot put kind of thing going on and you're like, that can't go in with any consistency. Davion Mitchell shot mechanics look beautiful right now. And so I'm, man, I tip my hat to him and what he's doing.
- [23:53]
Rob Mahoney
I think it started earlier too. Like he was a. He was a pretty solid point guard for the Raptors this season. Like just a good utility option filling in and then. But. But the shooting was still kind of come and go and then he gets to Miami and he's hidden everything. And so you've got the like improvisational point guard play which they desperately need.
- [24:11]
Justin Varior
Good Lord.
- [24:12]
Rob Mahoney
Is this offense like Tyler hero centric in a really bad way? Not because he's doing anything poorly, just they're so reliant on him to create everything that Davion Mitchell comes in. It's a breath of fresh air. One more guy who can actually dribble. One more guy who can actually create something. He's been so important to the point that like, I know I'm sure SPO had his reasons for Davion Mitchell not starting. I don't know what those reasons are because not only is Davion Mitchell clearly the defender that you talked about was like just a bulldog, an absolute menace on ball, digging down every, every aspect of defensive play. He's just a straight up better offensive player than Alec Burks at this stage. And so I don't really know. I don't know why he finally got the starting nod today as SPO was kind of throwing a bunch of different things at the wall. And I don't know why it took this for that to happen.
- [24:58]
Big Waz
I have a question for both of you guys and this related to the pre show, even what we talked about.
- [25:05]
Rob Mahoney
In the pre show, I am legitimately terrified.
- [25:07]
Big Waz
If somebody told you before this game that there was a Heat player who made an Olympic team, few All Star games, consensus media darling, like you can't find a national media guy that has a single negative thing to say about him. And then there was another Miami player who any time there was a suggestion that he was any good, media people scoffed and laughed and mocked. Who do you think those two players would be like in those two buckets that I just presented to you guys?
- [25:40]
Justin Varior
Is. Is the Olympian Pele Larson.
- [25:45]
Rob Mahoney
Hella Larson? Be respectful.
- [25:49]
Big Waz
Yovich.
- [25:50]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, they're both Nikola Jovic.
- [25:55]
Big Waz
No, man, Bam out of bio. He's stinking up the joint in a season.
- [25:59]
Rob Mahoney
Okay, I don't know about stinking up the joint because I think his defense especially, especially like half court against Evan Mobley has been pretty important and pretty good. But he's not the elevating superstar they need.
- [26:11]
Big Waz
He's not Bruce Bowen, man. Like he's not getting paid to be a one sided ass player. Like this guy is looked at as an all around big time component to everything these guys are trying to do. And I know we used to love oh, Bam catches it at the elbow extended and he's facilitating and dribble handoff. And he's such a nice passer and.
- [26:34]
Rob Mahoney
All of that still does that.
- [26:35]
Big Waz
He's got to score, y'all. Like this man needs to score. He's got to make a shot. He needs to become a threat. Like it can't be Tyler Hero going freaking Kobe mode in here.
- [26:45]
Rob Mahoney
I am, I am open minded to the various realities that Bam could find for himself to be a really good NBA player, to be an even better star than he already is. But I think you're honestly right, you know, just watching how limited Miami's offense looks when the Cavs just deny Tyler Hero the ball, right? Just like don't let him get the ball for this possession and everything goes nowhere. That is unacceptable when you have Bam out of bio on the floor. Like, he has to be able to reroute something to get you a credible shot, and there's just too many possessions where he and the other Heat just like, are not capable of that.
- [27:19]
Justin Varior
Bam's never been a scorer. You know, I know he's flirted around the 20 points per game mark, but it's often been playing off of other guys. He does so many things that are ancillary to an offense that bring them to another level. The playmaking, the ball movement, all this other bonus stuff. But the fact that he had to step out and shoot threes was in order to declog the lane, because that's probably his best usage. And so I just. I just don't know if he has it in him. He is still of all star caliber given all of the things that he does on both ends.
- [27:47]
Rob Mahoney
Oh, yeah.
- [27:48]
Justin Varior
But I think he needs to be your number three offensively and this point they're just hoping to feature him. It's partly, probably why someone like Davion Mitchell is taking the opportunity and running with it, because it is there for someone. It's just. Bam's not going to be the one to do that.
- [28:00]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, it just. It has to be more than Tyler Hero, who I thought has had a pretty exceptional start to the series overall in terms of the offense he's actually able to generate. It's just too much, and it's more than you would ever want him to have to do. To the point where, yeah, like some of the other members of the Heat are scoring some. Davion Mitchell is scoring. You got 17 out of Heywood Highsmith, which by Haywood Highsmith standards is like going for 50. Like, that's. That's about as good as you're going to get from Haywood Highsmith, and still you come up pretty distinctly short. I would say. The Heat made this competitive. They fought, they really closed the gap, and then they just ran hard into kind of the ceiling of what they can produce offensively, and you flash to the other side. The Cavs had their moments where they kind of slogged through. They. They weren't playing their best for stretches of this game. Here comes Donovan Mitchell down the stretch, hitting every big shot, every big floater, creating every big play. And then, you know, you can trust both the defense and the overall engine of their offense to get enough supplementary.
- [28:53]
Justin Varior
Play just to tie a bow on the David Mitchell thing. What do we think his role is next? Year. Do we think he's like Heywood Highsmith plus do we think he could start or is his future ultimately coming off the bench?
- [29:09]
Rob Mahoney
Well, do you think he's on the Miami Heat?
- [29:11]
Justin Varior
He's a restricted free agent and I assume he recognizes the opportunity he's got here.
- [29:15]
Rob Mahoney
It's been great, like, it's been a great fit so far.
- [29:17]
Big Waz
I mean, I would love to see, you know that, like, I would love to see a Jerome James situation where he just. Not that he doesn't live up to the contest, come on. But like he has an insane playoff run and somebody wants to pay the hell out of him. I would love that for him. But also if, you know, if the Heat offered him a fair deal, what do you guys think is a fair deal? Four years, 14 per.
- [29:38]
Justin Varior
Yeah. Mid level money? Yeah, I think he's.
- [29:41]
Rob Mahoney
I think he deserves like decent starting point guard type money. I think he's worth that.
- [29:46]
Big Waz
Yeah. If the Heat offered him that and you know, maybe got a player option on the third so that, you know, if he developed nicely, he could cash in again, I think that would be a pretty cool deal for him. I would love that for him because I think he seems to like, like it there. Newsflash. A lot of NBA players like being in Miami and he's already one of these psychopath work hard working kind of guys where the standards that have been set by SPO and Riles won't bother him in ways that maybe has bothered other players on, in the past on the Heat. So I would love to see that happen for him.
- [30:24]
Justin Varior
This is the trade off, not going to shooter and going with Mitchell in that trade package. Mitchell has to be like brought back, has to be put on a new deal. But there is a longer tale with him. If you do believe in him, if he did show something in this little kind of run he's had with them.
- [30:39]
Rob Mahoney
I think he's just a better complimentary fit with Tyler Herro, who is again, clearly established himself as a really important part of this team. You just have to find some better scoring from 3, 4, 5. That's their ultimate challenge going forward.
- [30:52]
D
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- [31:49]
Rob Mahoney
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Justin Varior
Grocery shopping in the nude a big no no.
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Rob Mahoney
Sunday service in the buff a disservice. And naked in the garage just odd. Turn naked into a net positive with buck naked underwear and feel like wearing nothing at all anywhere. Get buck naked at your Duluth trading store.
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Big Waz
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Rob Mahoney
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Rob Mahoney
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Big Waz
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- [32:48]
Justin Varior
USA Salt Lake City Branch terms and more at applecard.com Speaking of needing better scoring, let's talk about the Magic who held tight to the Celtics in a game that, as we mentioned above, got a little bloody. Definitely got pretty bruising as most Magic games tend to do. This one. I don't know if this was a tougher watch than the Lakers Wolves the night before, but certainly the Magic have a special ability to pull things into the sumo wrestling pit. I think after two games as good as the Magic have been keeping it close. Like obviously a 10 point deficit for the magic feels like it's 30 at times and I just can't help but wonder like where is the offensive juice coming from? How many more times are we going to do this? And so my question is how surprised would you be Rob, if the Magic finally decided to trade for some goddamn offensive help this off season?
- [33:45]
Rob Mahoney
I would not be surprised. So I think on the one to five scale I'm like a two. I'm not saying it's a foregone conclusion. But I think what gives me some optimism is that one, it's time, like straight up, you watch this team play, it is impossible not to focus on what they don't have. And by that I don't mean like, oh, they're missing an all star level point guard. I'm sitting there watching this game being like, man, how different would their life be if they had Peyton Pritchard? Like, how transformed would they be if they just had a guy who could be a threat to score in that position? And I say that legitimately with great respect for Corey Joseph, who is defending his ass off out there and ultimately has given this team like a bit of stability. An absolute pros pro who's coming and done a job. But he's not a scorer.
- [34:26]
Big Waz
God damn. He's not a big starting level point guard in the playoffs, man, against the freaking best team in the Eastern Conference. That's insane. He is not an insane ass.
- [34:34]
Rob Mahoney
And missing Jalen Suggs sucks in that regard. He. He helped them so much this season on both sides when he was out there. Overall though, I think their front office, I think pretty much everyone there understands that there is a trade that they need to make at some point. And that point is basically now like, you're watching Paolo Banchero thrive right now with fairly minimal spacing, beating guys one on one, beating up people inside, like doing everything that you would him to do. Can you get him a little bit more room to operate? It doesn't have to. You have to change everything about your team, but you need a little bit of relief for your corp stars at this point.
- [35:08]
Big Waz
Yeah, you shouldn't be asking Paulo to be Luka Doncic or Prime LeBron James in terms of ball handling duties like that. Dude should be setting the screens, you know, resetting screens, slipping screens, picking pop, you know, attacking closeouts, attacking mismatches. When defense are too scared of the pick and roll and they switch a little guy onto him, like that's what he should be doing. You know, it should be a more big man dominating role than. All right, man, set up our entire freaking team and set yourself up to score every single time. Like that just should not be the case.
- [35:48]
Rob Mahoney
Especially he wants to do that stuff like that. I think that's what's a little bit perplexing about where the magic find themselves is. This isn't an Anthony Davis. Like, I want to play this one specific way and I kind of rebel against what my ultimate destiny should be. Paolo Bancaro wants to be a four. Like he Wants to play opposite guards, he wants to play opposite playmakers. And I think we're about there. I think it's got to be time.
- [36:10]
Justin Varior
I think the good thing is I don't think that they need an Anthony Davis type. What they need is just like someone who has a veteran steadiness to them, but can also hit a goddamn three pointer. And so the way their contracts are stacked up, Bank Arrow, I believe is due in extension this offseason. Wagner obviously got one. Suggs obviously got one. If you're paying those three guys, and those guys are critical to everything that they've built, you really can't add a superstar to this mix. As much as people want to play trade machine, I also don't think it makes sense because they have such a, like, established hierarchy. There's good depth here, but because they built so much depth, they do have the pieces in order to make just the right guy that they need, not the superstar. Anthony Simons makes a ton of fucking sense. We've been talking about it for two years. That type of guy, like the Tristan De Silva's, you know, the, the, the failed Jet Howard projects, the Caleb Houston's, like every type of shooter that they've tried to cycle through over the past couple years, plus some picks like shit how name. I just need the magic to realize this, you know, because the problem has been them organizationally believing so much in their feeder system rather than wanting to necessarily step outside that. And obviously KCP didn't do too well this year. The shooting was dreadful again tonight. And so I just hope they're not reticent to do that because they need it. Like the time is now.
- [37:32]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, I don't. I think it's been just so much like wait and see, wait and see, wait and see there. Yeah. Believing in the feeder system and also wanting to give even their stars, right, like a chance to manifest their games to whatever extent they can. And then once that happens, once things settle, you wait for the right move and you make it. I just think you could play that game all day and you're just going to be kind of spinning your wheels in more or less this same place. As long as this is the case, like, Franz is already really good. Paolo is. He is clearly like leveling up right before our eyes. Even in less than ideal circumstances. You got, you got to give him more to work with. So I, I really think this has to happen this summer.
- [38:07]
Justin Varior
They have two picks in the first round of this upcoming draft. I don't know where those guys play. They don't even have room in. What is it, like oscillator or whatever it is.
- [38:16]
Rob Mahoney
Osceola.
- [38:17]
Justin Varior
Osceola. Thank you.
- [38:18]
Big Waz
They could be mentored by Tony Black and the rest of the young guys.
- [38:24]
Rob Mahoney
That's a pretty good Tony Black game.
- [38:25]
Big Waz
He's played pretty. He's been fine the first two games.
- [38:29]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [38:31]
Justin Varior
All right, next one on the board here. How surprised would you be if Kawhi Leonard missed the shot?
- [38:37]
Big Waz
That's a 5. This like at least 4.5, dude, like ripping the freaking nets. The. The game. Game two where he started something like nine of ten and like most of these shots were contested. He wasn't like by himself completely. Like guys were guarding him and he was just so laser focused, dialed in. It was crazy, dude. To the point where that last shot, that big shot that he made one on one where Denver kind of thought about just trying to force him to pass. And then they half heartedly came and it was just him and Aaron Gordon. And as soon as he got the shot off, I was like, this, this is money. Like this is no way this shot is going to miss. And yeah, he basically iced Denver with that. Just an incredible performance, man.
- [39:31]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, we just expect every shot to go at this point, which I didn't know if we were ever going to quite get there again, but 31 points a game through these first two games. 79% on twos. What the fuck?
- [39:45]
Big Waz
Yeah. That's insane.
- [39:46]
Rob Mahoney
And anecdotally it seems higher. Like even that seems low relative to what we've actually watched. So I just think this version of Kawhi is something that's really special to watch. Something that, as I said, I just did not think was ever going to happen again. And so the fact that we get to see it is a delight.
- [40:01]
Big Waz
I've been poo pooing this clipper thing all year.
- [40:04]
Rob Mahoney
I mean, we were. We were wondering when Kawhi came back, like, how is he going to fit exactly? What form is he going to be in, you know, by at the end of the day? And we'll see. Like the question with him has always been, can you get back? And then once you do, how long can you kind of sustain that sort of run? We've seen him have incendiary starts to the playoffs and then mysteriously kind of bow out four games in. I really hope that's not the case. Everything so far has been really, really remarkable.
- [40:30]
Justin Varior
You guys have to remind me because it's been so long since we've seen Kwai on this level of just like killing It. Yeah, because he obviously can get to his spots and he could obviously raise up over most players and he can drill it with efficiency. Just what he's doing now, though, where there's like three guys around him and he just has the right timing in order to pull up one, but also, like hold it for an extra beat in order to get right above the outstretched arms and then drill. It feels like another layer that he's been on from the excellence that he's been on for over the past, what, eight to ten years.
- [41:04]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, yeah.
- [41:06]
Big Waz
It's crazy. Honestly, the footwork has been ridiculous for years now. What struck me in game two is the freaking handle is so tight and so freaking. Just. It's a weapon, man. Like, his handle is a straight up weapon in a way that I'm like, man, this guy is crossing people over with the quickness that, like, I just haven't seen in so long. And he's generating so much separation on these dribble pull ups. It's so crazy. Freaking nuts. I would say it probably hasn't looked like this since whatever the year was, where he had that monster game to close out Dallas 2021. Yeah, yeah, that, like, it hasn't looked like that since. And yeah, it's pretty freaking insane to watch.
- [41:57]
Rob Mahoney
That was definitely the closest comparison point for me too. And I would say that game, Game 6 in 2021 against the Mavs was one of the best playoff performances I've ever seen anybody play. And so this was like, we're kind of approaching that territory. The stakes are totally different. Right. Like that game six was a monumental game to basically seize control of the series. This one, though, saving, you know, planting a flag on what this series can ultimately be, which is just going down.
- [42:22]
Big Waz
Oh, to the way that they've played so well against Denver would have been demoralizing.
- [42:27]
Rob Mahoney
That would have been really tough. Even. Even with, you know, you know that the margin is tight, you know that these games could go either way. You still gotta try to steal one. And the fact that they were able to. Clearly a really important part of kind of putting their overall resume together for what would. What winning the series would look like.
- [42:43]
Justin Varior
I also say one kind of unsung hero in the Kawhi Sans has just been Chris Dunn hitting the mainstream. Just watching him wreak terror defensively and basically free up Kawhi to be like the second or third defender in a lot of these situations just allows him to pop more offensively. And also seeing the chess match of Jokic versus Chris Dunne, because in Addition to Dunn just being a terror and athletic marvel, his anticipation, especially in the steel and the paint in the key bucket down the stretch, like he's on another level. And I think we who've been watching the Clipper games this entire year, like, oh, we know that guy's in there. But to see him hit at the same time acquired this, the balance there, that's just so formative.
- [43:24]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, well, especially when you think about down the stretch of that game, Denver was trying to get into its stuff. The Clippers both were. They obviously have really aggressive individual defenders. They also were kind of playing some hybrid zone stuff now and again, just kind of junking up the game. And all the Denver two man action kind of got like it had a little too much preamble. Like they had to really set up, really get to their spots, really do all this. And some of that was because Chris Dunn was just interjecting himself into everything. Then on the other side, the plan is give the ball to Kawhi Leonard, get the fuck out of the way, space the floor as best you can, let him go one on one, create a 19 footer and he's just hitting every single one. And the simplicity of that. While look, I love team basketball as much as anybody. I love two man play as much as anybody. It's kind of, it's not comparable when you have one player hitting 79% of their twos with offense that's that straightforward, you just, you're not going to beat that. And you really just have to hope that at some point the shooting is going to peter off wise.
- [44:18]
Justin Varior
How are you feeling about the rest of the series? Because things got a little dicey down the stretch for, for Denver.
- [44:24]
Big Waz
Plus mpj, Jesus freaking Christ with that turnover.
- [44:29]
Rob Mahoney
That turnover is really bad.
- [44:31]
Big Waz
Way better.
- [44:31]
Rob Mahoney
Way, way, way better.
- [44:32]
Big Waz
Like put his hands on people who were driving within three feet of the cup. That was nice.
- [44:38]
Rob Mahoney
The offensive rebounds, I think overall it.
- [44:41]
Big Waz
Was nice to see him like try to win a playoff game. That's a huge one. That was cool.
- [44:47]
Justin Varior
I think unfortunately though, he's got the shoulder injury. Jamal Murray seems like he's pretty sick. Like a lot of people right now.
- [44:53]
Rob Mahoney
I will say Jamal Murray for being a guy who was sick, I thought he played a fucking great defensive game in particular, like really was getting after.
- [45:01]
Big Waz
It, but it's frustrating. Where was this in game one?
- [45:04]
Justin Varior
The moisture.
- [45:04]
Big Waz
Where was, where was that in game one? Honestly, no comment. I think, I think this is just going to be a dog fight. Whale of a series, man. I really do these Teams are really good, both of them. And the Clippers are extremely well coached. I think the only, like, the only thing I will say, the Clippers are being cute with their lineups in a way that I'm just like, yo, Tylou, it's one of your best guys.
- [45:34]
Rob Mahoney
It kind of worked, though.
- [45:35]
Big Waz
It worked. It did work. They Jedi mind tricked the freaking Nuggets into not understanding what a zone defense was for like three to four solid minutes. Which I was like, what in the hell is going on? But like, these guys are coaching them up. I think if they just keep their best players on the floor for most of the time, this shit going to be. There's going to be a problem, but I think it's going to be a slug fest.
- [45:58]
Justin Varior
Man, I need a Ben Simmons was fine T shirt. He was. Because he's been fine. Give him eight to ten minutes. Totally fine. He's adequate. Ben Simmons is adequate.
- [46:08]
Rob Mahoney
I don't feel great about it, but he was in this game fine.
- [46:15]
Justin Varior
All right, couple more here. How surprised would you be if the Pistons finish ahead of the Knicks next regular season? Because I'm starting to. I'm starting to wonder, like, how real is this Pistons kind of resurgence? I. Because I went into the postseason expecting them to kind of get stomped. Even though the Knicks were a mess for most of the second half of the season. I just thought like, the magic, the pixie dust, the shooting success of the Pistons would kind of wear over time. But now I'm like, these are kind of peers, especially because Tibbs is going to run his top five into the ground by and by the time of the postseason. Like, this is what you're going to get probably every year, unless you add, like, more over the off season. And so it's kind of a dual question, Rob. It's like, how worried are we about the Knicks long term, especially with Tibbs at the helm? And two, how bullish are you on the Pistons plus Jaden Ivey, plus another year of this next year?
- [47:10]
Rob Mahoney
I would be quite surprised if the Pistons caught the Knicks.
- [47:14]
Big Waz
Their second best offensive player is Toby Harris. What are we doing right now? This is crazy.
- [47:19]
Justin Varior
Could be Jaden Ivy next year.
- [47:20]
Rob Mahoney
Well, I also think you have to be really wary if we're forecasting beyond what's happening right now going into next year. You got to be wary about the year after the jump because history tells us these teams come back to earth a little bit. They level out, things get a little weird, they lose a random player who you didn't think was that important. But turns out to have been quite important all along. There's all this stuff that happens, and I think that given their youth and given, like, getting Ivey back in particular, I expect the Pistons to improve modestly next season. They have quite a bit of ground to make up on the Knicks, just even based on this year's standings. And that's a year in which Jalen Brunson missed a ton of games. Maybe that'll happen again, maybe it won't. Who's to say? As far as them being peers in this series, I always thought it was going to be a. It was going to be a physical, kind of tough series. I don't know that I would call them peers, per se. I think the Pistons are quite good. I think they can make a lot of different teams sweat and they make teams work for it. But there is zero question who the more talented team is.
- [48:13]
Big Waz
The Knicks are way more talented. They just felt like they. They're above trying their hardest to beat this team. Yeah, like, y'all not that good. Like, they're not that good that they could just show up and sort of sleepwalk their way through beating Detroit. Like, that's not going to happen. These dudes have to literally lock in and treat this like it's a do or die series, which is what it is.
- [48:36]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [48:36]
Big Waz
And I thought towards the end of game two, like, there was like a switch that came, like, oh, we actually have to try collectively on defense. Every man rotating and being in his spot and like giving some level of res like it was. It's just ridiculous to watch, to be honest. And I think their offense, the way that it's ran, is completely suboptimal. You can do this kind of station to station thing in the regular season because you have really good talent, but you are not going to be a great offensive postseason team doing what they do, not leveraging the strengths of all of their players on every single possession. And, you know, part of me wonders if a upset man and embarrassment here wouldn't be the best thing that happened to the Knicks and get him. Yeah, get Tibbs the hell up out of there. Get you a freaking Kenny Atkinson. How about that?
- [49:30]
Rob Mahoney
I think he's done. Look, he has his limitations, but I don't know. I'm ready to run Tibbs out of town just yet.
- [49:36]
Justin Varior
Defense is your thing.
- [49:38]
Big Waz
You should be able to guard this Detroit team well.
- [49:40]
Justin Varior
I wouldn't be surprised if there's going to be some shakeups with the Knicks, not only at the coaching staff, but also with the roster Gale Bridges has been pretty flat in terms of what they paid for him. And so I could see them doing things differently. And so if they mix with the calculus there, I just see a top heavy team that even if you add one more bench player, like a credible bench option, you get one. You know, it's not like they're going to just usher in a whole second unit that's all of a sudden going to solve the issues that they've had this season, which is that they're playing their guys too much. They're getting to the point where, like, they're relying on them way too often, and they get to the situation where you're asking Deuce McBride basically to save them half the time. That would be the case against the Knicks, the case for the Pistons. I think, in addition to getting Ivy back, I think it's internal improvement. Like, Kate Cunningham acquitted himself pretty well in the second game, obviously struggled in the first. But, like, that's a big old boy. He's going to keep doing better things. And in addition to that, like, Asar didn't play a full Cub season. Ron Holland, let's see him get more regular rotation minutes. Hopefully he doesn't fight half the league at that point. But, like, there are a lot of guys that could take a step forward that you wouldn't have to be as reliant on. Malik Beasley, basically being Steph Curry again next year. And the other thing that I've been kind of impressed by is just that, like, the defense traveled. And so there's like, almost an identity to this team that's hard to replicate. And so, like, I think back to the Pacers last year, basically finding themselves tweaking it on the fly with Siakam trade. But they basically knew who they are, and they've just leaned in and tweaked things on the margins. It feels like the Pacer, the Pistons are kind of on that trajectory at.
- [51:16]
Rob Mahoney
This point, but the Siakam trade is a huge trade. Like, that is a monumental change to the structure of the team that I think vaulted them into a different class. If they hadn't made it, it would be incremental gains all the way up here. I agree. Like, there's some young players who are ready to take steps. And to. To be clear, I really love watching this Pistons team play. Like, watching Cade turn up the pace in Game two was such a delight. Like, you really get a sense of his physicality and how imposing he is when he's playing faster. The Dennis Schroeder experience. I Think it's been awesome in this series overall. Even though he's hitting the deck every third play trying to draw.
- [51:48]
Big Waz
Perfect garden villain. He's great.
- [51:51]
Rob Mahoney
Absolute wonderful, wonderful garden villain. Jalen Duran had a really nice bounce back game that I think bodes well for his place in this series, especially with Beef Stu out. He had to be good and big and he was Tobias Harris. Being a big game player has been huge. I have really enjoyed watching Asar Thompson play defense. I think he's been doing quite well. Apparently the refs don't agree with me. Jalen Brunson, you gotta chill. Like you really, you really have to chill. Not just for all of us, but for the soul of the game of basketball. It's. It's been a lot. It's a little unseemly, the foul baiting right now.
- [52:23]
Justin Varior
Let me ask you this question. Whose future would you. Of these four teams, would you actually rank these four teams based on whose future you would rather have?
- [52:31]
Rob Mahoney
Wait, so within the one to five surprise scale, we're doing a mini future.
- [52:35]
Justin Varior
Power rankings one to four? Yeah.
- [52:38]
Rob Mahoney
Okay.
- [52:39]
Justin Varior
Knicks, Pacers, Bucks, Pistons. So basically, basically the three through six in the east right now.
- [52:46]
Rob Mahoney
Well, four is for his bucks.
- [52:48]
Big Waz
Yes, 100% forest bucks. Their freaking superstar is making googly eyes at big market teams dreaming of better jersey sales. Their second best player is in his mid-30s. Yeah, I'd rather not have the Bucks. I'd still say the Pacers, man, like their best players. Relatively young, I think.
- [53:12]
Rob Mahoney
No, no, I think they're my number one.
- [53:14]
Big Waz
They your number one of those four.
- [53:16]
Rob Mahoney
Of those four teams?
- [53:17]
Big Waz
Nah, they're my number two. I take the Knicks over the paces for sure.
- [53:20]
Rob Mahoney
That's fine. That's fine. I have no problem with that.
- [53:22]
Justin Varior
Case of Rob checking in.
- [53:24]
Rob Mahoney
Just saying they're looking pretty good. I don't know what to tell you.
- [53:27]
Justin Varior
I would take the Knicks.
- [53:28]
Big Waz
They're going to be feeding him cocktails shrimp at St. Elmo's next time he shows.
- [53:34]
Rob Mahoney
I've never had the shrimp cocktail. I still am waiting for it.
- [53:37]
Justin Varior
You'll have as much as you could stomach, my friend. I would pick the Knicks. One market muscle, have a lot of talent. You could just completely change the team on the fly. Basically. Like teams are going to want bridges, teams are going to want to cat. If you want to just completely upend this thing, it's just going to keep moving forward in the different permutation. I might pick the Pistons over the Pacers is kind of what I'm leaning toward.
- [53:58]
Rob Mahoney
I mean, I'm not surprised that you feel this way. But you're wrong.
- [54:00]
Big Waz
This is consistent.
- [54:01]
Justin Varior
But Cade is already better than Haliburton.
- [54:06]
Rob Mahoney
False. But if not, it's going to be better.
- [54:10]
Justin Varior
No, I think you have a better number one.
- [54:12]
Big Waz
See some. Some more proof of concept than two games in this playoff season.
- [54:17]
Justin Varior
Pretty good.
- [54:18]
Rob Mahoney
The whole season was worthy season for sure.
- [54:21]
Big Waz
Yeah, no, I'm talking about the team proof of concept, not Cade. Like they've. They've played two playoff games. They won 41 games. Like, all right, cool. They're cool. They're on the rise. But I don't think they're like so clearly better than the Pacers now.
- [54:37]
Rob Mahoney
22% is crazy.
- [54:41]
Justin Varior
I just, I see it. I see the future.
- [54:44]
Rob Mahoney
I think you, you were every player who voted Tyrese Halliburton the most overrated player in the NBA. Like you hacked the ballot box and you were just stuffing it with Tyrese Halliburton.
- [54:54]
Big Waz
Just saw Tyrese Halliburton's name at the top and said no notes, no red. No red ink through that list.
- [55:02]
Justin Varior
I have one more before we get to the temporal series about Tyrese Halliburton. Believe it or not, would you be surprised if Tyrese Halliburton arrives to game three of their series against the Bucks in a wrestling leotard and a newsboy cap, calls himself the newsmaker? I was pretty proud of that one. And challenges Damian Lillard to a ladder match for the fate of the series?
- [55:24]
Big Waz
Not surprised at all. It's funny.
- [55:27]
Rob Mahoney
I'm 1.5. I think likely it's funny because I.
- [55:33]
Big Waz
Think people are more pissed with Halliburton as he's trash talking them than he is about the actual trash talk. Like he's clearly a freaking little troll and it's. It's work. Like he is pissing people the hell off. He's a shit poster. If that. If a shit poster were an NBA player and it is just riling people up, which is not surprising.
- [55:59]
Rob Mahoney
This seems entirely possible. We know he has the newsboy cap for one. That's check. Like he could just wear it. He could wear it and will wear it at any moment in time. We know he's a wrestling guy. I think Dame would take the invitation at this point. He seems pretty game to participate in all this despite the fact that he is getting played. As was mentioned, the question is the leotard. Like would he. Would he go for the wrestling leotard or not? Because otherwise, personality, hat, theatrics. I think he's delivering on all the Newsmaker friends. You're asking him to. Justin.
- [56:26]
Big Waz
Like the same spandex that like, Mr. Perfect would wear. Like a full body joint that would.
- [56:31]
Justin Varior
Be covered in like newsprint. Like headlines from back in the day.
- [56:35]
Rob Mahoney
Oh, interesting.
- [56:37]
Justin Varior
Forest fire in Down Park.
- [56:40]
Big Waz
Oh, I thought you would like, have the, like Reggie Miller on the New York Post with his hands like this.
- [56:47]
Rob Mahoney
Or something like that.
- [56:47]
Justin Varior
But the hands are like positioned around his crotch.
- [56:51]
Rob Mahoney
What?
- [56:51]
Justin Varior
What?
- [56:54]
Rob Mahoney
You lost me. I don't know what's happening. This is how I feel about his tyres. Halliburton takes in general, but especially now.
- [57:02]
Justin Varior
All right, what can I tell you? Last one on the board here. Would you be surprised, on a scale from 1 to 5, if the Minnesota Timberwolves.
- [57:13]
Rob Mahoney
Are we not going to talk about Pacers bucks at all? That's all we want to talk about is the, the fake newsmaker bit. Do you have. Do you have anything you want to contribute about the series in progress? Justin?
- [57:23]
Justin Varior
I think the Pacers have this one in hand. Unless Damian Lillard just finds a way to flashback to three years ago.
- [57:31]
Rob Mahoney
So tough circumstances. Yeah, they don't. They don't have enough on either.
- [57:36]
Big Waz
They don't have the horses.
- [57:38]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah. And worse yet, I think you see the Pacers solving them.
- [57:40]
Big Waz
And I don't care what none of you motherfuckers say. Kyle Kuzma used to be a good player.
- [57:45]
Rob Mahoney
No one's arguing that he didn't used to be.
- [57:49]
Big Waz
What's a good player?
- [57:50]
Rob Mahoney
Significantly better in game two. By which I mean he scored some points, he did some things. He was active out in the game in a totally different way. And I think if Milwaukee has anything going for it, their Bigs did a better job of like, running and sealing. Bobby Portis had an unbelievable game out of thin air, basically because of it in these guys. So they can, they can push on that a little bit. It's just. It's not enough. You know, when you, when you're trading off everything else, it's just not enough.
- [58:15]
Justin Varior
Glad we got that Pacers analysis in there. I mean, pace better than league better.
- [58:19]
Rob Mahoney
Crotch talk. I don't know what to tell you.
- [58:21]
Justin Varior
Is it? All right, last one. Would you be surprised if the Timberwolves make the west finals?
- [58:28]
Rob Mahoney
No. 1.
- [58:31]
Justin Varior
I think I'm getting there. Yeah.
- [58:33]
Rob Mahoney
Like they're. They're on the plausible side of the bracket where any team, I would say any team could kind of make it. Like, I wouldn't be shocked by any of them.
- [58:41]
Justin Varior
Here's the question. Are you saying one because it's plausible or Are you saying one because it's likely.
- [58:46]
Rob Mahoney
I'm saying one because the field on that side on the non opacity can't.
- [58:50]
Big Waz
Beat the Lakers, warriors or the like. There's just no reason to think that they can. I guess I'm at like a two. It's just I'm falling victim to most recent game bias where it's just like the shooting luck returning to what it's been all year combined with the collective basketball situational IQ being not exactly excellent on this team. I would say it's like Mike Conley and a bunch of asylum residents, you know, like. And he's like the one score.
- [59:28]
Justin Varior
Yeah.
- [59:29]
Big Waz
He's like the one nice nurse who's in her 50s.
- [59:32]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah. The orderly cusp of.
- [59:34]
Big Waz
Yeah, the one nice orderly on the cusp of retirement trying to keep this whole thing together. It's. It's pathetic.
- [59:41]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, take. Take that retirement package at some point. Although not Mike Conley. I hope he plays forever. But, yeah, like the. But the basketball iq. The amount of times that the Wolves will just shoot themselves in the foot repeatedly for three minutes on end is deeply troubling. That said, they have advantages that many of these other teams do not. They have Anthony Edwards first and foremost. Yep. They have the size, they have the defense. They have those nights where they go supernova from three, and they're incredibly hard to beat on those nights. And they're also going to have nights where Dante DiVincenzo doesn't have like eight fouls in three minutes. You know, like, they're going to have nights where the rotation is a little more complete.
- [60:16]
Big Waz
Also, Nas Reed. Take a volume, kid. Like, chill, Relax.
- [60:21]
Rob Mahoney
You're prescribing.
- [60:22]
Big Waz
Yeah, yeah, he's got, he's got to calm down. He's a little too much right now.
- [60:27]
Justin Varior
Well, that's partly why I have probably more. I came out of that game more encouraged for the Wolves because I don't. It seems tough to replicate what the Lakers did on both ends there. It seemed like their entire goal was to bring the game deeper into the mud that it possibly ever could. To the point where it almost felt like LeBron was more engaged defensively, tactically, as a way to just like allow Luka to be the end all, be all offensively. It's almost like they lit the house on fire and Luka was the only one wearing like flame retardant clothes. And that was their whole approach.
- [61:00]
Big Waz
They barely generated any easy looks, especially in the second half. And I get it, they built the lead and a lot of it is just like playing out the string, but like, it doesn't seem like they get a lot of system buckets, man. And I know that's tougher to do against a team that's willing to switch literally everything against you.
- [61:18]
Rob Mahoney
That's the thing.
- [61:18]
Big Waz
Um, but like, I don't think Luke is a great switch player right now. Maybe. I know, I get it. He's dropped 30 in both games. He just doesn't. He doesn't put the defense in panic in the ways that we would have expected him to. So. So, you know, we'll see.
- [61:37]
Rob Mahoney
To be honest, there aren't that many players who are right. Like, if you're going to switch with pretty high level players all the time and live with the results, I think you're mostly going to keep things pretty contained. Like Rudy Gobert, I thought to my earlier point did a pretty credible job just like kind of hanging around and staying in front at least contesting shots. Got baited into some fouls. That's going to happen. Gave up some possessions. That's going to happen. The reason the Wolves lost this game is because of everything happening on the other end of the court where they just could not string two scores together. And that's where I disagree about the replicability. I think so much of what changed for the Lakers in this was not just three point luck, but are you actually guarding and contesting these three pointers? Are you actually rotating with force? And that's where things like LeBron really digging in defensively felt like an important shift in the tone of the series. And I think really amped things up for so many of his teammates. Like when he's playing like that, it's so easy to follow him in doing it. And if that's the team the Lakers are going to be defensively, then I think this version of Luka is good enough.
- [62:33]
Justin Varior
See, that's where I wonder if that's replicable because it felt like all of the perimeter defenders minus Luka had to be on 11 in terms of physicality and activity in order to get to that level. And maybe they could do that again. Maybe they just roll out the same approach. But also I think it's dependent on the whistle. Felt like they got away with a little bit more than the Wolves did because the Wolves are a little bit less.
- [62:53]
Big Waz
A more physical game favors the smaller team because. Yes, because they have to put their hands on people.
- [63:03]
Rob Mahoney
I see what you're saying.
- [63:04]
Big Waz
In order to do like there's no other way for them to play defense.
- [63:07]
Rob Mahoney
This is the Dream on, Green corollary. You know, and if get away with.
- [63:11]
Big Waz
Everything attack against the smaller team, they're toast.
- [63:15]
Justin Varior
Yeah, I just, I just wonder though, if the Wolves had a normal three point shooting night, which I think they're probably prone to do now that they've had such a massive swing. The point where I think they made 21 in the game.
- [63:25]
Big Waz
Isaiah would say McDaniels had a normal shooting night in game two.
- [63:29]
Justin Varior
Not lately. I just don't think all the players that struggled and made five threes an entire game, DiVincenzo, Naz, Reed, McDaniels, like that's not going to happen again. And if that happens, then things can be different. The one thing I did really love about what they did defensively though, on Luca Durudy's credit, one, it seemed like the earlier success Luca had on Rudy specifically almost baited him to keep doing it over and over to the point in the fourth quarter. It's like he just saw Rudy and he had to attack him. Despite the fact that it wasn't.
- [63:59]
Big Waz
And it wasn't working.
- [64:00]
Justin Varior
No, it was not working in the fourth in part because I also thought they did a good job crowding with a help defender. And they basically didn't have Gobert going for the contest because then they were worried Luca was going to draw a foul or something. They had McDaniels or whoever was roving basically contest from behind, which I thought was like really creative and interesting. And that's the type of thing that I worry about going forward.
- [64:23]
Rob Mahoney
I'll also say this to the possessions where Luka kind of gets Rudy on his hip, puts him in jail and is kind of like getting into the lane after getting that first step. Luca misses a fair number of those kind of like little runners, those little push shots. And when he does, he is deep under the basket. He is not going to be getting back on the other direction. If you, if you play that right, you can get points out of it. I don't think the Wolves played it right enough. I don't think they secured the rebound and got out enough. And some of that is a credit to the collective hustle of the Lakers who took away some of those opportunities. But to our greater point, if you're going to force Luca to do that every single game, there's ways you can create advantages out of it. Even if he is going to put up 30 plus every single night, like some of the misses are going to be more painful than others.
- [65:05]
Justin Varior
So what would you guys say is the most likely outcome from that side of the bracket at this point because I think we all agree like you.
- [65:12]
Big Waz
Could see the Lakers coming weather finals. Yep.
- [65:15]
Rob Mahoney
God, I mean it's hard to say on a night where Jimmy Butler is now out for an indeterminate amount of time. So I would say whoever comes out of this wolves Lakers series feels more likely to me given we have no idea about Butler and I don't trust Houston's half.
- [65:28]
Big Waz
Give me. Yeah, I'm a piggyback on Rob there. Give me the winner of wolves Lakers. Give me the team.
- [65:36]
Justin Varior
That's the team. Out of the three options on the table, I will technically 4.
- [65:41]
Rob Mahoney
I'll still take the Lakers.
- [65:43]
Big Waz
I'm sticking with the Lakers, although I want to pick the wolves because they're best players. Comparing his jock size to crowd members, like I want to be on the side of the team that's doing that. But I beat the Lakers.
- [65:55]
Rob Mahoney
Are you willing to subsidize his fine. Like are you willing to pay a share?
- [65:59]
Big Waz
Absolutely not. Daniel X don't pay me that much.
- [66:04]
Justin Varior
I would agree with you guys. I think the the winner of this series probably goes and I, I might lean wolves at this point. Yeah, I kind of believe.
- [66:10]
Big Waz
I'm not mad at that, man. They have so much talent on their team.
- [66:16]
Justin Varior
Yeah, I like what they had. All right. Anything else for you guys? Any other wrestling scenarios you want to throw out there? Any other pastas hot takes you to get off your chest before we go here.
- [66:26]
Big Waz
Sit. That's all I got.
- [66:28]
Rob Mahoney
I think we're. I think we're done. We're. There's plenty of time to discuss pasta coming up.
- [66:32]
Justin Varior
Thank you, Isaiah Blakely. Thank you to Ben Cruz. We'll be back on Saturday just like we did last time. Saturday night into Sunday morning. We will talk to you then. Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 + in present in D.C. gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or 800-327-5050. For 24. 7 support and Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text HOPE NY in New York.