← The Ringer NBA Show
The Ringer NBA Show
Jokic and Murray Sit Out the Nuggets' Dub Against the Warriors. Plus, Who’s Down Bad?
01:07:29
Loading summary
Transcript180 lines
- [00:00]
Sponsor Announcer
This episode is brought to you by patron 100% additive free tequila. When it comes to ingredients, Patron doesn't need to play games. That's why their tequila is crafted with 100% Weber Blue Agave water and thyme. No sweeteners, no added extracts, no secrets, just 100% additive free tequila. Visit patron tequila.com to learn more. The perfect way to enjoy Patron is responsibly Copyright 2025, imported by the Patron Spirits Company Coral Gables, Florida. Tequila 40% Alcoh by volume. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Basketball fans know that a great assist can change the game. And there's no greater assist than one from State Farm. State Farm is here to help you navigate the right coverage for your home car and more. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. State Farm, Bloomington, Illinois. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability and eligibility vary by state.
- [00:57]
Tate Frazier
Hello there, friends of the program. It's Tate Frazier and it's officially that special time of the year where we go on a march through madness together for the 85th edition of the NCAA tournament. What makes March so special, you ask? Well, it's the unknown. It's the fact that this is basically Survivor on a basketball court on CBS without Jeff Probs. And no matter how much you prepare, you cannot predict this kind of chaos. And that is what we will be covering on this podcast. One shining podcast. All the madness, all the David versus Goliath personified. It's the best show in town. The ball is tipped and here you are with us. Come listen and join us wherever you get your podcast.
- [01:47]
Logan Murdoch
What's poppin real ones. Logan Murdoch here, Rogerville there, Howard Beck and the cut. Cliff on the boards, Victoria on the video. Ah, we're gonna talk some Nuggets and play a little game of who's down bad the most. That's going to be in the second segment. But first, I was really down bad last night, y'all. Specifically in the pregame presser at Chase center when Mike Malone, hours or an hour before one of the most anticipated games in a while, relays the news to the local media that neither Jamal Murray nor Nicole Jokic will be playing in this game against the Warriors. It was a tough scene because you were getting word like pre, pre pregame that Nicola was probably not going to play and neither was Jamal Murray. And I couldn't believe it because I was just like, you know, man, the NBA cracks down on. Allegedly cracks down on sorts of things, things, right? And there's no way, like, you know, the Nuggets are tied for second place in the Western Conference. Right. There's no way that this is going to go down. You know, there's two teams fighting for playoff position, and I was just really upset with the circumstances. I get. Joker is injured, but he play. He's played over the last few games. Same with Jamal Murray. Howard, didn't they legislate this type of shit out of the game? Allegedly. What the hell? Why were we. And I texted you last night like, yo, man, it's bad. The league is cooked. And you and your east coast bias was like, well, shit, I ain't watching. So, like, I'm sure you weren't. Okay, well, you said something along the lines of that it got. It got it. The game got a lot less vibey, in your words. What the fuck, Howard?
- [03:43]
Howard Beck
Great question. What the fuck? I don't know how to answer that. Other than this. Yeah, it was really deflating. I was excited for that game, too. Planned on staying up and everything. I did stay up anyway and watch. Watch the warriors gag it away. A night that they should have absolutely won. Great for the Nuggets winning without their two most important players. I get it. Like, it's mid March, late March. Coaches are now thinking about being fresh for the playoffs. The Nuggets aren't locked in in terms of standings, seatings, but, like, they clearly are not concerned about slipping too far. They're not concerned about anything. Like, they're. They're fine. They're going to be somewhere in the top four. They're fine. And I get all that. And to your question, Logan, about the league's policies, yeah, they've legislated all kinds of things, but they haven't been able to legislate out resting period. There's combinations where you can't rest multiple stars. But, like, Jamal Murray doesn't even qualify as a star because he never makes All Star or all NBA. So it's. It was only like one star that they rested. And there's the Lowry market, you know, situation a week ago where the Jazz get fined for resting him. But that's because A, he does qualify as a star under the player participation policy, and B, it was clearly that they're tanking. The Nuggets aren't tanking. The Nuggets are just strategically resting. There's nothing that I'm aware of to actually eliminate this particular circumstance, and we're just stuck with this. But the shitty thing is for fans and for the league, frankly, because this is a problem for them, perception wise, image wise. On any given Night in March, you. You got a bunch of teams that are pulling the plug on players because they're tanking and they're trying to just enhance their lottery odds. You've got contenders like the Nuggets who are resting their top players because they're resting for the playoffs. So whether it's resting for strategic purposes, resting for the playoffs, resting because you're trying to lose, there's just too many guys who should be playing, who are the marquee names, who are not. And that's not. It's not great. It's not great for your TV partners, it's not great for fans, it's not great for the sport. And the league has been grappling with versions of this for years, and it feels like they still haven't come up with enough solutions.
- [06:01]
Logan Murdoch
Is there a balance, Raja, for the fans getting what they want, the players being healthy as possible and, you know, things like this not happening, right, because this was a, you know, this is a really, like, anticipated game, right? It was. This was Jokic versus the warriors down the stretch. This could be a potential playoff series, right? Like, this was, you know, they had. It's so funny when you have, like, the, like Mike Breen stayed over with Doris and, and I'm not sure, but Mike Breen stayed over and was, and so was Richard Jefferson were calling the game. So the ABC had their number one team there and it was clearly like something that the league wanted to showcase. Do can we get a balance?
- [06:51]
Raja Bell
Yeah, you're gonna need someone smarter than me to come up with like, the. What type of legislation could. Could be put in effect to actually balance it out and what's fair to everybody. I don't see a world where, where I could come up with that. You're always going to be in conflict with, with, with fans to some degree, with. With networks, you know, with the quality of. Of the quality of the product at this time of year. When, when you're a team that has a roster that thinks it can win a championship but has a little bit of age on it, like, or has a. A bunch of miles on it, even if they're not old, they've been playing deep into the playoffs and you know, Nicola and some of those guys were in the, in the Olympics and like it. That's a lot of basketball. I say this all the time. We've just been conditioned to watch people go out there and play 100 games a year. And the level is so high and it's so remarkable what they can physically do. You take for granted how difficult that is. And even the most conditioned bodies are going to break down at some point because that's just a lot of basketball. And no one's complaining. Like, people are paid great to do it. You understand the gig when you take the job. But the reality is that is a fact. And as soon as teams, you know, started to realize that those miles were accumulating in a way that could be detrimental to winning a championship, then it becomes about protecting, you know, their bottom line, which is making sure that they got the best chance to win a championship by ensuring that people are healthy. And that means resting them. They're going to fucking rest them. They're going to sit them down and make sure they're, you know, they're ready to go. And you heard Steve Kerr, even after the game last night, say, steph's tired. And I would agree with that. I was with you guys in that. I was fired up to watch the game. And as soon as I saw those jokers were out, I'm like, I'm not watching this shit. And so I taped it and I recorded it and watched it this morning. And I was looking, specifically, having heard the comments from Steve last night, specifically at Steph and trying to see how he was moving and stuff like that. And it harkened me back to playing in a game at this time of year, watching him, like, not. Not level of player. This is just the way a body would feel. Rolling out in March and just not having the juice that you need to have. Like, you're still gonna be out there. And to the. To the untrained eye, it might look pretty normal, but I was watching and I was like, oh, he. He really don't have the juice. Like, it's the legs, and he's trying, and they're all out there giving it what they got, but they just don't have the juice. And so, you know, that's a lot of words to answer a really simple question, like, is, I don't see a B. I don't see a balance, because at the end of the day, it's too much of an investment made by these franchises in an effort to win championships and increase the valuation in X, Y and Z to not rest a dude, when every analytic you have and every piece of sports science you have says he needs to rest or his percent chance of injury increases exponentially.
- [09:54]
Logan Murdoch
Yeah, I mean, to your point about Steph, one, that was one of the worst games I've seen from him in, like, years. And a lot he did look tired in those things. And second point to that is he's probably not going to play against Milwaukee tonight because of that. Right. They got a back to back at Chase Center. It, it is the. I don't know if this is the dog days necessarily because now there's so much more competition with the playing. Right. And you are expected to at least try. That's why the plan is kind of put in place. Because you want to get out of it. I mean, the warriors, on one hand, I was in that Steve Carpresser yesterday. On one hand, they don't want to go to the playing and they're playing hard. But that means, you know, Steph has to play all back to backs. He's played since Jimmy's gotten in town. He's played every back to back thus far and he's just turned 37 last week. And so it's, it's, it's going to be tough for them. I want to get back to the Nuggets because I was curious about them coming into this game as a contender and I was reading the story or reading the substack by Hardwood Paroxium, one of the really great writers in, in the NBA sphere, but he was, he had a piece on his sub stack called the Worst Kind of Team and how Denver fits that kind of description because of all the things that we have talked about, right, where you know, they've beaten up on this season, they've beaten up on a lot of the bad teams in the league. They have also, you know, showed up in some games, but also like laid real big eggs in other games. And you can't really get a gauge on this team. They're on path for, I think 53 wins this season. But then they also have like the curious win against the Lakers the other day where the Lakers, who had no bit. What was that?
- [11:59]
Raja Bell
Holy cow, man. I was looking.
- [12:01]
Logan Murdoch
Oh my God. Yo.
- [12:02]
Raja Bell
Sorry.
- [12:02]
Logan Murdoch
Keep that in. I was in a, I was in a, I was in a bag with my monologue was like, ah, yeah.
- [12:08]
Raja Bell
I was looking up stats on my phone, sorry. And some ad popped up.
- [12:12]
Logan Murdoch
It was all good, buddy. But no, like they're, they're this team that you can't really get against gauge of. And I, I, I think I wanted to talk through and have that exercise here on the pod. Like what, what do you guys think of the Nuggets and do they deserve the benefit of the doubt? I'll start with Raja.
- [12:34]
Raja Bell
What do I think of the Nuggets? I mean, trying to remember what I said. I had the Nuggets in a subcategory like, like a, a number two category. I think the last time we were on didn't. I doesn't know where I had him. Logan, I didn't have him at the top, but I had him. In a group of teams, when you have Jokic, you have Jamal Murray, they're playing well. What they can do to you offensively at times if they're getting the support from the others, like Christian Brown's playing well and Michael Porter Jr. Shooting it well. I mean, you saw Aaron Gordon, given the opportunity to be kind of the primary offensively, go off last night. So, like in a perfect world, offensively. But they're just, I mean, they're a really poor defensive team this year. They're, you know, they're below. I mean, what are they, 20th, 21st in the league. I was trying to look that up, but 20th. But yeah, like, they're just not a great defensive team. And you, you know that that means you just have to be on every night in a way that when you see better teams in the NBA and what they're going to do to you, schematically, I don't think it's realistic. So, like, I think they are who they are. They're the team you just kind of described, right? Like they're going to beat, you know, a lot of teams that they probably should beat on paper. But like, you know, when you see that upper level or upper echelon team, I think it's going to be. It's going to be hard for them as a unit and the way they're playing this year.
- [13:52]
Howard Beck
Howard, defense has always been an issue for them, but a couple years ago when they won the championship and they were that season, they were 15th in defensive rating. So they were at least middle of the pack. And they were, if I recall correctly, they were improving down the stretch of that season. I just looked up last 15 games for the Nuggets, so they're 20th overall this season. And if you do the last 15 games, they are even worse. They're like 23rd over the last 15 games. So they're not improving. They're actually getting slightly worse. That said, they're on pace for about 52 wins. They won 53 the year they won the championship. Their net rating right now is plus 4.4 per 100, and they were at plus 3.3 per 100 the year that they won it all. But the league is better now. I think, like the teams at the top net ratings are in double digits and so That's Oklahoma and Cleveland and Boston's right up there too. So the Nuggets, even by net rating, which, you know the stat guys will tell you is, is, you know, tells you a lot. Even, sometimes even more than the standings. Their net rating is, is, is good. It's solid. But it, it's, it's, it's well behind the top three teams and, you know, it's a matter of like, who you trust. And it's funny that we're having this conversation now, right? Like, do we trust the supporting cast? The supporting cast just beat the warriors last night on the road without Russell West.
- [15:19]
Logan Murdoch
Just want to give, give credence. He went like 7 of 85, but he had a triple double.
- [15:26]
Raja Bell
Oh, he was like 5. He's like 5 for 18 for 14 on a triple double.
- [15:33]
Logan Murdoch
Bro. Did you see dog? There was a play down to stretch for Russ where I think Gary Payton was on him. And like, by the way, he was chucking for that last triple dub for that, for the triple double that he was like chucking three so he could get his 10 points for the triple double, right? But then he hits like three threes in the, in the fourth and then he had. And then he's, he's the guy in pickup right now, at least in that game where he's. And I can relate because I am definitely this guy as well that you throw it up and they're like, yo, don't even worry, don't even worry. Let him shoot. Let him shoot. And. But he hits the shot at the right time to throw the game away. Russ had a lot of those shots last night. It wasn't quintessential late stage of his career. Russell Westbrook game. Were you happy for Russ? Like, how did you feel watching this version of Russ at the game?
- [16:23]
Raja Bell
Listen, a triple dub with a dub. Come on.
- [16:27]
Logan Murdoch
Almost had a quadruple dub with the turnovers.
- [16:29]
Raja Bell
A triple dub. Now you ain't got to do that. Ain't no need for that. Like, ain't no need for that. You know, coming in with that triple dub. With a dub. We go take that all day. Go ahead. Sorry we got off. We got off my. All day.
- [16:42]
Howard Beck
Yeah. Five for 18 for Westbrook with seven turnovers. I mean, it's not exactly a stellar performance, but he hit some big shots late when the warriors were trying to get back in this thing. He's having one of his better three point shooting seasons at 34%. But teams are still going to leave him alone. Like, this is the problem for them in the playoffs teams aren't going to guard Westbrook. A lot of times. They're not going to guard Darren Gordon.
- [17:02]
Logan Murdoch
Either at the 3.3 air balls, by the way, by Rushbrook in the second half alone.
- [17:08]
Howard Beck
Yeah, so I, I, like, I say, when we were Logan and I talking yesterday, like, yeah, we want to talk about tomorrow. The game hadn't happened yet, of course, and we're like, let's talk about the Nuggets and just kind of, you know, where they're at and whatever. They're like 500 over the last month or hovering around that, like a game over. And it's an awkward day to be having this conversation, but, yeah, I, I think, you know, one game aside, and the warriors were clearly gassed. Steph was clearly gassed. Great performance by the Nuggets, but I don't know that anybody in the league would look at that team and say, we really trust their supporting cast. And there's a reason that they're kind.
- [17:44]
Logan Murdoch
Of also added to that. Howard, I do believe, like, it was jarring to see, like, pregame where the warriors were, like, clearly up for this game. Like, they were right. There's no bones about it. And then they got the news that Jokic was out and Jamal Murray was out, and they just came out flat. It was like the quintessential game where the stars are out, but they tend to play better. I mean, Roger, that's a. That's. I feel like that's a phenomenon here.
- [18:10]
Raja Bell
It's. It's definitely a thing. And I would just add to that, like, you on a night when you're not. Like, you never know when the legs, like, you. You don't know when the legs aren't there until you hit the court. Right? Like, you. You could tell sometimes in warm ups, like, oh, like, man, it's just. Doesn't feel like I don't feel great right now. And on nights like that, you need the adrenaline kick of playing in a big game, because sometimes that adrenaline kick of playing, you know, your arch nemesis or one of the better players in the NBA or better teams in the NBA, that'll get you going just enough to kind of find it in that way. But if you, if you, if you have a letdown on top of your legs not being there, like, a letdown in emotion, like, oh, we're straight now. We don't even have to really be locked in to beat these joker. They don't have the joker. Or, or, you know, like, like what you did at that point. It's a Double negative.
- [18:58]
Logan Murdoch
I like what you did there.
- [19:00]
Raja Bell
Thank you.
- [19:01]
Logan Murdoch
Back to Howard. We keep interrupting him and throwing it back to him. Sorry, but.
- [19:04]
Howard Beck
No, no, no, not at all. I was, I was, I was, I was checking with the league about Jokic. They didn't. So he was listed as an injury last night. Not, not rest. So it may depend on what the Nuggets do next. If he's out, like. So it's unclear whether there's a violation of the player.
- [19:21]
Logan Murdoch
They have the Lakers on Wednesday. We'll see.
- [19:23]
Howard Beck
Yeah, exactly. So.
- [19:25]
Raja Bell
Well, it's. I mean, speaking of the Lakers, you asked me the question, Logan, about, you know, about the balance. I mean, the Lakers are dealing. That's an overuse injury. What LeBron has going on. The groin is a, it's an overuse injury. All that soft tissue like that, that's, that's what pops up. When you've played as much basketball as you have. Even the most well conditioned dudes like have, have a point that they get to. And then, and then you know, you're going to sustain something like that. So, you know, ask a Laker fan if they'd rather have LeBron on a national TV game against OKC right now or they'd rather make sure he's healthy for the playoffs. You know.
- [19:59]
Logan Murdoch
Victoria, what do you think? Is it. Are we, are we put it in the chat or what do you. What would you like to see? Half Laker fan, half warriors fan. I don't even know that that existed but you know, put that in the chat. But yeah, like I do believe that it is a tough balance, man, because you want to see these games, but also like you want these team, if you're on a team, you want them to be healthy for the playoffs, bro. You want LeBron James to be as healthy as possible at 40 years old to be healthy in your second round playoffs instead of a second night of a back to back. Yeah, that was a bar. But let's go to the MVP race, Howard, because right after the ringer published who should be the, the MVP? I think it was like 9 to 1 jokic. I was on the joke. It's end of the spectrum. Howard was the lone person that picked SGA who's probably going to win the mvp. But ever since that list dropped, like SGA has been on a heater and Jokic's teams are still like around hovering around average. Where are we at in the MVP race at this point in your eyes?
- [21:14]
Howard Beck
Yeah, I mean Bon Temps's last straw poll a few weeks back. It was like 70% SGA and 30% Yokage in terms of like the way the first place votes broke down, like it was looking like a landslide in Sheagles Alexander's favor. So yeah, I was pretty stunned when I was the only voter within our poll at the ringer outvoted nine to one. I, I don't. Listen, I, I don't know where this goes from here. I'll just say that the way that the Nuggets are playing right now is reminiscent of a couple years ago where Jokic kind of lost momentum down the stretch to Embiid because the Sixers finished on a stronger kick and Embiid did as well. And the Nuggets and Jokic kind of, you know, dragged themselves to the finish line and you know, first impressions matter, last impressions matter, all impressions matter. The whole season matters. But there are times when an MVP race can turn based on how teams finish. And I do think whether it's Jokic being banged up right now or Yogic resting right now, the Nuggets being banged up, the Nuggets not winning as much like, oh, that's probably going to factor in a little bit. I think all the momentum was in shade of Gilgis Alexander's favor anyway based largely on not just the fact that he's been awesome, but like the record, like as we sit here today, the Thunder now have a 12 and a half game lead on the Nuggets. And you know, the Thunder are, you know, clearly going to, you know, get past 60 wins. They're going to flirt with, you know, they're going to be in the high 60s. They could, they could even still potentially get to 70 and the Nuggets are going to be very good. They're, they're going to hit 50 something. But the record matters. The record matters. The record has always mattered. The wins have always mattered. It's just a matter of how each voter calibrates how much the wins matter versus the individual stats. And I do think we're in an era where more people are weighing the individual part of this more where it's becoming more of for some people, I think what I would consider most outstanding player mop instead of mvp because the V to me has always been about it's, it has to contribute to incredible team success and 50 plus wins is fine, but 60 plus wins is, is, is outstanding in this league. There's a major difference between being a 60 win team and a 50 win team. And when you've got an 11 game lead in the standings as the Thunder do I think that has to be in SGA's favor. It's. It's not automatic. The record alone doesn't do it. But like, the individual dominance has to be there. But SGA already has that. So to me, there's very little doubt. A lot can happen still in the, whatever, 15 games left in the season. But yeah, when we did the poll last week on the ringer, I was. I was pulling the lever for sga, same as when Bontemps had his poll a couple weeks before that. Anything can change. I'm open to, you know, you got to be open minded until the ballots are actually due. They're not even in our hands yet and won't be for another few weeks. But it does look like sga.
- [24:21]
Logan Murdoch
Hey, hey, Howard, you down with mop?
- [24:25]
Howard Beck
You know me.
- [24:30]
Raja Bell
That's. I mean, that's surprising to me. That nine to one.
- [24:36]
Howard Beck
I was surprised too.
- [24:37]
Raja Bell
Yeah, I mean, yeah, I guess you said that, but like, maybe it wasn't registered, but like, that's really. That's really surprising to me. Like, I. Yeah, I mean, well, to.
- [24:48]
Logan Murdoch
Be fair, Raja, to be fair, this came on in the weeks leading up. He turned in like Will Chamberlain again and just start.
- [24:54]
Howard Beck
It was like days after he had the 30, 20, 20 game.
- [24:57]
Logan Murdoch
Yeah, we were kind of like we were caught up in pressure rapture.
- [25:00]
Raja Bell
No, I got you, I got you, I got you. And I mean, look, he's been brilliant. I'm not taking anything away. I was, I. Michael Pino was on like, you know, we were having the conversation about him back then. But I'll be. That was a long time ago. And I don't remember exactly what I was saying about that, but I was like, yeah, man. Like, this is going to be a no brainer type of deal. But Shea's just been so good. And they've been. They've been in big games, like, you know, on big stages, and he just keeps doing it. And that record. I'm with you, Howard. That's got to mean something, man. You talking about 56 right now. Wherever that winds up. Unless they just fall apart down the stretch. And he falls apart. Like, I can't. I can't see him not getting that.
- [25:42]
Logan Murdoch
We'll see what happens. Let's take a quick break. Play a game called which Team is down Bad. The most tap in this episode is.
- [25:52]
Sponsor Announcer
Brought to you by Hyundai. Hyundai knows the road could be a little hectic at the best of times. But just like a great player anticipates the next move on the court. Hyundai helps you anticipate the unexpected on the road. They're available class exclusive advanced safety features like Forward Collision Avoidance Assist and Blind spot view Monitor work to protect you on every drive. Learn more about hyundai@hyundai USA.com Call 562-314-4603 for complete details. This episode is brought to you by Indeed. Successful season starts with picking the right players for your team. Like with the Boston Celtics, they've been able to put together a pretty good roster, pretty deep superstar driven two way players. They've got it right. And so if you want to hire the best players for your business and quickly, you need Indeed. Their sponsored jobs help you stand out and reach relevant candidates faster. Plus with Indeed sponsored jobs there are no monthly subscriptions, no long term contracts and you only pay for results. There's no need to wait any longer. Speed up your hiring right now with Indeed. Listeners of the show will get a $75 sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility@ Indeed.com RingerMBA that's Indeed.com RingerMBA right now. And support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.comringer MBA terms and conditions apply. Hiring Indeed is all you need.
- [27:22]
Logan Murdoch
Today's episode is brought to you by Amazon Business. Every business starts with an idea. How can you go from daydreamer to industry leader? Amazon Business accelerates your journey with smart business buying. Get everything you need to grow in one familiar place. From office supplies to IT essentials to maintenance tools. Amazon Business takes the buying experience you know and love from Amazon plus tools that help you save costs and make insight based decisions. Ready to bring your business to life? Learn how@amazonbusiness.com and we are back. All right, let's talk. Let's talk through some teams. Talk turkey. As as they say on the back stretch of the season, I'm going to give you three a set of three teams. We're going to talk through these three teams and I'm going to ask you guys which team is down bad the most. Let's start with the Phoenix Suns. I don't know if you guys saw the game on Sunday. Victoria, apparently to your point, raja saw that LeBron was out and was like I ain't going to this game. She had an opportunity to go to Lakers Suns. It was like forget it. But the Suns look bad. Budenholzer and Durant are still like chirping at each other on tv. Kevin don't even give a fuck anymore. He's like I don't care. I'm gonna Just, Even when I'm miked, I'm just gonna talk. Just going to just. Just go in on my coach, and they're not bucking down, backing down. It's pretty bad. Roger, what do you think about your Phoenix Suns right now going down the stretch?
- [29:04]
Raja Bell
What do I. What do I think about them? I mean, they're not. They're not good. That's. There's. That. They're a mess. It's been a mess. You know, it's hard for me to. It's a really big kind of question, like. And I'm trying to give a really big, broad answer, but, like, there's something. There's something wrong there. Like, I, I, you know, Ishbia and team have done a. A better job than old ownership. They've been great in terms of trying to get, you know, former players back and trying to have us around and trying to, you know, trying to get us back in the community and stuff like that. And that's really the only capacity I know them in, and so I give them a lot of credit for that. And I'm a, you know, I'm always a fan, but there's. There's something going on there that's just kind of dysfunctional right now. And, like, you know, obviously, you know, some of the moves made with the roster and the situation that you're in with that and it not being productive, like, that's one thing, but, I mean, you've cycled through coaches. Like, there's stuff going on there that's bigger than the roster that they have to get figured out, you know, and then, you know, the KD thing, I get it, man. Like, he. He was right. Like, when we saw it the first time, you know, he was like, we care. We both care. You want people that care. Like, this is what we do. And that's fair and it's true. Like, you get heated and that happens. Lord knows it happened with me. But, you know, I think when. That, when you're. When you're. When that's happening multiple times, like, it doesn't have to be that they hate each other and he wants him fired or anything like that, but it does speak to, like, y'all. Y'all clearly aren't on the same page and have a lot of disagreements, you know, as to how things should be operating. And that is kind of rare, right? Like, on good teams, you don't typically see that type of disconnect with. With. But we, as players, we kind of know what a coach wants in situations like that. Like, We've been in so many, we've been in so many games, like, you know what I mean? Like, especially if we've had success, we kind of know what you want to do. And conversely, like, a lot of times Mike don't have to ask Steve what he wants because he knows what he wants. And so I think there is something to their exchanges at times. It doesn't have to be a big blown out of proportion thing, but I do think when you take everything into account, I think it's just kind of messy there, man. I don't know. Did I answer that? It's just a mess, buddy.
- [31:32]
Logan Murdoch
Yeah. Pat yourself on the back. Good. Shit.
- [31:33]
Raja Bell
Yeah. No, I mean, I mean, they got a lot of stuff going on, dude.
- [31:38]
Logan Murdoch
I, I mean, I don't know. When I talk to people around the league, like, it's very clear to me that the, the relationship between Budenholzer and Kevin is probably at the point of no return at this point. Like, they're just at each other's necks a lot. I think at the back stretch of the season. Like, you know, Kevin's wants the offense to be simplified at this point, right. Just so they can, you know, get offense and it's, get, get some, you know, stuff going offensively and not have to play sets. And Budenholzer wants to continue to run, you know, through, you know, sets and complications of sets and stuff like that, and they're having to disconnect on that end. And in the Laker game, Budenholzer saw some defensive rotations that he didn't like and got on Kevin's head and Kevin just, you know, responded. Right. But, like, it's not the, you know, I know there's the one side where Kevin is like, yo, we're, we both love the game of basketball and we're going to figure it out. I think that's something that you say at a presser to get through it, but, like, I don't even think they're at that stage right now. It's. It's really like, it's really bad in Phoenix. Howard is there. Like, I don't, I don't know, which. I know what we would do at the end of this, but I feel like Matt Ishbia is just going to keep rolling the dice until, like, he craps all the way out, even though he is pretty much crapped out at this point. They should revamp this roster the next few months, right. No matter what happens this season, everybody.
- [33:20]
Howard Beck
Believes they're going to move Kevin Durant. Okay.
- [33:22]
Logan Murdoch
Cool.
- [33:22]
Howard Beck
Great. I don't know what you're getting for a 37 year old Kevin Durant. He's still awesome. He's still worth a ton. There aren't that many teams though that are one Kevin Durant away, right? You're a rebuilding team's not trading for him. A kind of pseudo middle of the pack team isn't trading like, so there's. You've got to find the team that needs him and has the actual assets that make sense in a trade and has the contract to match besides. So it's really not that easy to do.
- [33:49]
Logan Murdoch
Yo, man, it's automatic. Hold on, hold on, hold on. We're fighting our guy, Raja dog. Jesus Christ.
- [33:55]
Howard Beck
Like three times, Roger.
- [33:56]
Logan Murdoch
That's three times, Raza Gee. Put your phone on fucking silent, dog.
- [34:00]
Raja Bell
The phone is on silent. Phone is on silent.
- [34:02]
Logan Murdoch
Volume down, brother. You can turn the volume down, brother.
- [34:05]
Raja Bell
Or Cliff, just cut it out. Like you cut out all of Logan's fuck ups.
- [34:09]
Logan Murdoch
No, he doesn't. No, he does do that.
- [34:11]
Raja Bell
Like, I don't understand. Like Logan's the only person that gets to cut that out when he fucks up. Everybody else got to have all their order shit on the air.
- [34:19]
Logan Murdoch
Just.
- [34:20]
Raja Bell
You know what I'm saying, Howard? Like, don't buy into his bullshit. Howard.
- [34:25]
Howard Beck
I don't think we've ever had. I don't think we've ever had like multiple random, just like interruptions from electronic devices in the course of first time.
- [34:37]
Logan Murdoch
Oh, man.
- [34:38]
Raja Bell
Go ahead.
- [34:39]
Logan Murdoch
We go that Virgo on Virgo. Crime is sick. Can't even flip you off because we on video right now. Go ahead, Howard.
- [34:48]
Howard Beck
Ah, no. Look like I don't even know where the hell I was. Durant. Durant's gone. Fine. Great. That's not the question facing the Suns right now. The question is not whether to trade Kevin Durant. Everybody, I think in the Suns, outside of the Suns, everybody knows they're going to trade Kevin Durant somewhere. We'll see what they get for him. That is not going to fix things because whatever you get for Durant plus Booker and Beal and whoever else is left is still not going to be that great of a team. In fact, you're probably going to be worse because whoever you're trading Durant for is not going to be better than Kevin Durant. Even this stage of Kevin Durant. So the real question facing them is the one that they don't want to face and the one that Ishba seems to have already ruled out in his interview with ESPN last week. Where he basically said, like, we're never trading Devin Booker. Guess what? That's the actual decision you have to make because. And from both sides of this too, if you're trading Kevin Durant, and again, what you're getting back for him is not making you better, probably. So you haven't, you haven't moved the ball forward. You can't trade Bradley Beal because of the no trade clause and nobody wants his contract. So you're stuck there. You're keeping Booker. What else can you possibly do? You have no draft picks. You're very scant. Where else are you going to go? The answer to all of this is to trade Devin Booker. And the answer to all this is probably to trade Devin Booker to Houston, who owns, who has control of two of your first round picks. Because that way you can tank. You can get your picks back. Tank. Get some of the, some. You know how players, Howard, they still.
- [36:17]
Logan Murdoch
Have Bradley Beal on the team. You don't think they still will, but, but Logan, they can get to the postseason. You think that's still a tank?
- [36:22]
Howard Beck
No, they're done. They're done. They're cooked. There is no version of the Suns where you just trade Kevin Durant, keep Booker and Beal and are suddenly back in business next season. You might be a fringe playoff team, maybe you're a play in team, but what have we seen? To suggest that Booker, Beal plus non Durant players is going to somehow make them a contender or even a decent playoff team like this is so obvious, it's painful. And by the way, if it's obvious to us, then it's obvious to Devin Booker too. And when they do trade Kevin Durant, whatever, they get back for him. I'm sure that, you know, Devin Booker's been a great, loyal soldier, just like Lillard was in Portland. Everybody's got their breaking point. I don't know why Devin Booker wouldn't look at the situation this summer after they traded Kevin Durant, look around and go, all right, what are we doing now? Where are we go. How, how are we getting back in the thick of things? It's time like it. To me, that is the logical conclusion. I'm not suggesting Devin Booker will do that. I'm not suggesting he should. It's Devin Booker's decision. It's his career. But I don't see why he would want to stay at this point. Because once you've traded Durant, you're basically sunk anyway.
- [37:31]
Logan Murdoch
And like, you brought up Lillard, that's a great comp for what's going on right now with Booker. And like, I think when Lillard left, left Portland, there was this understanding of like we couldn't figure it out. Like we still love you here, but like go on and prosper. Yeah, I feel like you need, if your Phoenix Suns is brass, you need to just like if you love Devin Booker, let him go, prosper. Free him, you know, and then he'll still be a son for life. It's okay. But do it right now while he's still young. You know that it's, it's a no brainer.
- [38:02]
Raja Bell
Yeah, that's a fantasy world.
- [38:05]
Logan Murdoch
What's, what's part of it?
- [38:06]
Raja Bell
What the part you talking about? Like, I, I'm in agreeance with Howard, but like that old. Hey, we love him. We're so, we're going to let him go while he's young and go do it somewhere else. That.
- [38:19]
Logan Murdoch
I can't be positive.
- [38:20]
Raja Bell
No, I'm with you. Listen, I would, I, I, it'd be really refreshing if some front office were operating in that space. But like, that ain't respect.
- [38:29]
Logan Murdoch
Respect. All right, let's go. Let's go to a team that we dog consistently on this program. Hi, Cliff. How you doing, buddy? The Philadelphia 76ers. How down bad are they?
- [38:44]
Raja Bell
Rajapel, where do we talk? I mean, listen, all that's wrapped up to me and Joel Embiid and what percentage of himself he can come back to be. So like right now, I think they're down pretty bad. You know, the Paul George thing hasn't worked out so far. You know, Tyrese Maxey, I, I love Tyrese Maxey. I don't think he's a real number one. Like as much as he kind of, they tried to paint him as one for a while. Like, I don't think he's a real championship level number one. Right. And so then it becomes about Joel Embiid, who at, at his best and at the height of his powers, you know, is as good as anybody in the league, you know, offensively. And it's, and it's just a force that creates a lot for everybody else out on the court, especially when he decides to like be big and act big. But what that looks like, I don't know. I don't know what exactly the injury is. I don't know. You know. You know, there comes a point with some of these guys in some of these bigs especially where even coming back off of these injuries, you're penciling in a percent decline in what they, what they're going to be. And I don't know if you're at that point with him, Logan. So, you know, I didn't, I didn't like notice segment was coming, so I didn't prep in terms of like what picks they own of their own and, and like what there are in terms of cap flexibility and shit like that. But in terms of a roster and what your big three or your supposed big three looks like right now and will look like moving forward, knowing that it has to be the nucleus of, of of success, like that doesn't look so good right now.
- [40:23]
Logan Murdoch
Howard, if the Sixers capture the flag, do they. Do they at least try to move like Embiid and or Paul George this off season? How do they, how do they play that if they get the number one pick?
- [40:42]
Howard Beck
Well, they're doing a great job of tanking. They're doing a great job of preserving their pick. So their pick goes to the Thunder unless it's top six. And right now the Sixers are doing a phenomenal job. They just shut down Paul George and beat obviously already is out. Not saying either of those weren't justified, but they're pulling the plug on the guys need to pull the plug on and they're letting Quentin Grimes just go out and, you know, shoot every, every possession and he's being great. By the way, one of the upsides for the Sixers right now is Quentin Grimes actually looks really good. They robbed the Mavericks blind. Speaking of a team that we're going to get to eventually here that has made just catastrophic error after catastrophic error, not a Luca size error. But giving away Quentin Grimes was a mistake. So the Sixers look Embiid and Paul George are there. Let's not even talk about like potential like Embiid and Paul George trades. That's not happening. Their contracts are onerous. Their injury histories are concerning. Embiid and Paul George are going to be Sixers for the rest of their careers. Very likely. The upside for the Sixers is this. Nothing about Embiid's knee that that anybody's aware of suggests that this is career ending or that this is going to be the end of him as a, as a dominant player. He needs to get rested and healthy and there are paths. If embiid is even 90% of himself next season, Paul George then gets to be the supporting player that he's supposed to be and not trying to lead them without Joel Embiid. So Paul George is better as a third wheel than as a number one or co number two with Maxi Maxi falls into place. Now you've got, you know, your, your three stars in place. Everybody loves Maxi. Like, no one's doubting his, his abilities. Jared McCain was a leading candidate for rookie of the year before he went down with an injury. So he comes back healthy. If they can resign Grimes and now they potentially have a top six pick. Like, they're in pretty good shape. That top six pick, by the way, maybe they're not actually using it, depending on where it falls. Maybe they're flipping that for more immediate help. Because you've got a window here still with Joel Embiid, and I know people might be snickering already, like, a window to do what? Like, they're done. I get it. I get it. I'm not going to try to talk anybody out of the stance that the Sixers might already be done, that the ERA is over, that they're never getting anywhere with Embiid. Joel Embiid was mvp, the league just like two years ago. And that knee injury last season, he was actually having a better year than he, than he did his MVP year. The, the knee injury. Ever since then, things have been rough, but there is still a world here where Embiid gets the knee right, comes back next season, and the Sixers are right back in the thick of things. I'm not predicting championships, I'm not predicting the finals, but a healthy season from their big three, plus whatever they get in the draft or that, or whatever they parlay that pick into, plus a couple of good young players that they already have under contract. They're going to be fine. Like I'm. Championships, I don't know, but they're going to be fine. This is, they're not, this is not the verge of a tear down. This is not, this is by far not the bleakest situation in the league because we haven't even gotten to that team.
- [43:40]
Raja Bell
I would agree, I would agree with that, though. I would agree. Like, if you're telling me he's coming back healthy and, and, and he's back to form, like, because again, I'm. David, when he's, when he's playing his best basketball, like, they're, they're very few in the NBA that they can, can do the type of stuff he does and just, and just have that type of presence, to your point, lets everybody else do what they're supposed to be doing. Howard, not terrible. I just, I mean, if you can't. I don't, I don't know that definitively. So.
- [44:11]
Howard Beck
Yeah, the biggest problem is we don't know Whether Embiid and Paul George will look close to themselves again next season or ever again. Right? And the downside here, their. Their worst case scenario is really bad because their worst case scenario is neither of those guys ever plays a full season again. Embiid never gets his dominance back again, and they're stuck with two really bad contracts. Like, that's on the table. That's possible, but we're not there yet.
- [44:36]
Logan Murdoch
You ready for this hour? You ready to get. You ready for. To get sad?
- [44:41]
Howard Beck
Do it. Ready for. Ready for Raja to get sad. And.
- [44:44]
Logan Murdoch
And Roger's in Florida. He is fine. He's about to go out to the beach after this. You know, sadness ain't no. There's a pen.
- [44:53]
Raja Bell
What's gonna make me sad? What are we talking about?
- [44:55]
Logan Murdoch
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The Dallas Mavericks. But, like, you know, who cares?
- [45:01]
Raja Bell
Listen, I told this story. I asked the mask for a dollar over the minimum. They told me, no, I just know.
- [45:08]
Howard Beck
I just know what I want you to have. I just talk about Nico.
- [45:12]
Raja Bell
Nico is my dude. I make no mistakes.
- [45:15]
Logan Murdoch
Let me get a dollar. And they was like, fuck out of my face.
- [45:18]
Raja Bell
Nah, sorry.
- [45:21]
Howard Beck
With the luxury tax, was that dollar gonna cost them $3?
- [45:24]
Raja Bell
Fair enough. Pre luxury tax. I mean, I wish I could say that.
- [45:30]
Logan Murdoch
But anyway, $1 in the meeting, like, here, buddy, I got you.
- [45:33]
Raja Bell
It's like, damn, Mark, come on, man. A brother ain't never played for more than a minimum, dog. Just let me say I'm playing for more than a minimum.
- [45:38]
Logan Murdoch
Minimum. You just did it for ego. He was like, nah, yeah, no, this.
- [45:43]
Raja Bell
Real talk. This was just like a point in my career. Can I please play for more than the minimum? Nope. I said, all right.
- [45:51]
Logan Murdoch
How down? Who's more down bad? Raja and 05 with that or the Dallas Mavericks right now?
- [46:01]
Howard Beck
Oh, man, the Mavericks are down much batter. More bad. Look. So we had. We were asked this question by editors on the ringer.com this morning. There was a small round table. Logan did not. Did not participate. Logan had bigger. With a great story that people should. Should all check out on. But we were asked to choose, like, who's. Who's in the worst shape right now? Phoenix, Dallas, or Philly. And I think four out of five of us went with Dallas, and the other one went Phoenix. So Philly off the hook this Morning on the Ringer.com is. Is. It's Dallas. Like, Dallas has the bleakest future right now because Kyrie's out with that ACL by the time he comes back next season. Let's let's say he could. He does come back next season. As Raja was talking about when we talked about this a week ago, he's. He's about to turn 33. I think it's this week, Raja. So a year from now, Kyrie's been back from the acl, maybe by, you know, by a few weeks, a month, couple months, whatever, but he's turning 34, 34 post ACL this time next year. And Anthony Davis is. Anthony Davis and 32, 33 and always injured. They, they have like two of control of, I think two first round picks in the next seven drafts. So not a lot to work with there. And there's just not a lot of flexibility here. And you don't even have a true number one because Kyrie and AD are both kind of like co number ones or, or one B's, you know, or, or, you know, whatever they are. And the window is really small and there's no obvious pivot here unless. And by the way, Kyrie's in a position this summer to be asking for an extension and if they give it to him, they're just going to lock themselves in that much further. Anthony Davis I think might even be doing extension. So. So where are you going with two guys in their early to mid-30s who are often injured, who are not true number ones and without a lot of draft capital, they're just, they're just locked in. And I don't, I just don't see where their, their root out of this is. I wouldn't want to be Phoenix either, but Phoenix can at least trade Durant and Devin Booker and get a shit ton of stuff. You can't trade Kyrie and AD and get a shit ton. You just, you can't. Like, Kyrie's trade value was, was minimal when they got him. It's better now than it was then in terms of his playing and his steadiness. He's been a better citizen and a better teammate, but now he's coming off of an ACL and again turning 34 a year from now. So I just, I just don't see Dallas's way out of this. I think they, of those three teams and of any of the 30 in the league, they've got the bleakest outlook.
- [48:48]
Logan Murdoch
I really do think that they could be the worst team in the league next year and like, perpetually the worst team in the league over the next decade. Like, and I say that because, I mean, one, that's how big of a decision it is to trade Luka in the time that you trade him. Right. But also nothing tells me about their leadership, that they know basketball and know how to build any sort of contending team. I know Nico has, but all that trust that you have for him to build a team has been completely eroded. So, like, I could see this team, like, the punchline that we have been given, like the Wizards, the punchline that the, the Hornets have been like, I see this going down a really bad downward spiral, Raja. Like, it could be. It could get really, really bad. Am I far off on that? Or is that, is that in play?
- [49:37]
Raja Bell
I mean, it's in, it's in play. Time will. Time will tell. But yeah, for all the reasons, you know, Howard. Howard just talked about. Like, you're, you're in a tough spot. Like, you're riding with Kyrie and.
- [49:51]
Howard Beck
You.
- [49:52]
Raja Bell
Know, there's a world where he doesn't have the acl, where, where I'm going to try to convince myself that this can get figured out. But even, you know, like, when I was talking about him being back, like, acknowledging, like, you're not going to be yourself at that point, even if you're able to come back, right? And you are 34 years old, and so what that looks like for next season, now we're Talking about turning 35 the next season when you're all the way back. Like, there are a lot of reasons why the situation doesn't look good. You can't get much for either one of them. And you're right. Logan, like, look, a really good friend of mine I've talked about before is that he's, he's. He's a season ticket holder in Dallas. He sits right there on the court side. Like, he's very, very close to the franchise. And I talked to him about the Mads all the time, and like, he's, you know, he's the one that will send me shit. Like, you believe they're, they're bumping our ticket prices up and this X, Y and Z. And he's just not, not enamored with the ownership group there or anything that they've done. And he's very disappointed in where the franchise is at. And so is it in play? Yeah, it's absolutely in play. And it's unfortunate. Like, I, you know, Nico's my guy. Like, I've known him a long time and, and I'm, and I'm fond of Nico, but yeah, he's got them in a really tough spot right now. Whoever, Whoever, whoever, you know, at face, at face value, like, we can have the argument about about the trade and, and, and what you should have got for it. And we could do all of that. Like I think we all agree that for Luca, you should have gotten a lot more. But you know, the way this has played out in the situation they're sitting in right now, they're in world of hurt, man.
- [51:25]
Logan Murdoch
It is a world of hurt. As you say, they were pre trade deadline. They were four games above 500 before they made that deal for to trade Luka Dacic. They are now 33 and 36 in a free fall. And Nico Harrison said he made this deal to win. Now they might not even. They probably won't make the playoffs this season or the play in for that matter. Right. Like, they, it's, it's, it's looking pretty grim right now. I think they're a game out of the, the playing race, if I have that correctly. Where are they at right now?
- [52:03]
Howard Beck
They are, they do own their pick, so there's that. Then they're. They're slotted 13th right now in the, in the draft.
- [52:11]
Raja Bell
Let's get lean, baby.
- [52:13]
Logan Murdoch
Let's do it. This is capture the flag.
- [52:18]
Raja Bell
You go. This is a limbo right now, bro. How low can you go?
- [52:21]
Logan Murdoch
Oh, my goodness. It's.
- [52:22]
Howard Beck
It's.
- [52:23]
Logan Murdoch
I was gonna ask the question, who's the most down bad the most? But I think we already answered. It's. It's, it's the Mavericks. It's. It's gonna be the Mavericks for a very, very long time. Let's go to the mailbag. Hello, Cliff. How do you feel, buddy? How you doing?
- [52:37]
Cliff
What's good, man? It's good to know that, that there's a team that's more down bad than the Sixers. Shout out to Quentin Grimes though. He's starting to freak me out a little bit. I mean, he gotta chill out.
- [52:48]
Logan Murdoch
You're like, no, no, we gotta pick to protect.
- [52:50]
Cliff
Relax, Howard. Even worse, I thought he was gonna win the game. I was terrified last night, man. I was terrified. But let's get to the real part of the pod that everybody wants to hear. Let's start out with Robert Mikel Bridges trade worse than Luka Doncic deal. Hi. Jesus.
- [53:09]
Logan Murdoch
That's Jesus.
- [53:11]
Cliff
Hi. I have been.
- [53:12]
Howard Beck
Calm down.
- [53:13]
Cliff
I have been wondering all year why the scrutiny of Mikel Bridges deal has been so minimal. The Knicks traded five first rounders and an unprotected pick swap in 20, 28 for a guy couldn't average 20 on a horrible Nets team last season. And who was now averaging less than 18 with three boards and three assists a game. The Knicks could have just looked at every other deal like this. KD trades Paul George trade the Clippers or the KG and Paul Pierce trade to the Nets. To know this is way too much to give up even for actual All Stars. As much as the Mavs have been destroyed for the Luka deal, at least they got an all NBA caliber player form. You may not agree with the logic, but at least there's some rationale gutting your whole future. To go from second to third place in Eastern Conference and to look further away from a title seems like it should be more frowned upon. Thanks, Bobby P. Good.
- [53:57]
Logan Murdoch
Bobby Portis.
- [53:58]
Cliff
Robert Paul. His name is Robert Paulson. Bobby Portis. When is Bobby coming back?
- [54:05]
Logan Murdoch
Oh, no.
- [54:07]
Howard Beck
Oh my. Can I handle this?
- [54:10]
Logan Murdoch
Go ahead.
- [54:11]
Raja Bell
Go ahead.
- [54:12]
Logan Murdoch
You got it, Bobby.
- [54:14]
Howard Beck
My guy. Seriously. Holy crap. First of all, nothing, nothing this year, last year, the last 10 years, the last 70 years has been worse than the Luka Doncic trade. It is quite likely the worst trade in NBA history. So let's not put Mikhail Bridges in that category. They gave up a lot of draft capital. They probably gave up too much, and I think even at the time it felt excessive. But the Knicks problem is not offense. First of all, the Knicks have been a really good offensive team. The problem is defense, which again, you got Mikhail Bridges in part because you wanted his defense. And it's fair to scrutinize him along with everybody else. They've not quite had the season that they hoped for, but there's a lot of different factors going into that. And I've said many times, the biggest thing that happened last summer wasn't the Knicks. For the Knicks wasn't getting Bridges and Towns. It was who they lost and specifically Hartenstein. And then on top of that, having Mitchell Robinson out for the first four months of this season, they just didn't have enough size. They didn't have rim protection. So their. Their issues are like whatever's happening to them this season that might be a disappointment to Knicks fans is not because they got Mikhail Bridges. Whether they might eventually regret trading as much draft capital as they did for him is a fair question because it does limit other moves you can make. But also just note, since Brunson went down, Bridges is Ballin. And Bridges is like they're. He's doing what I thought he could do for them when they got him in the first place, which is become this like. Raja, did you just do it again? No. What did I just hear?
- [55:52]
Logan Murdoch
That's the grand slam, baby. Oh, damn.
- [55:57]
Howard Beck
Okay, you Got me?
- [55:58]
Logan Murdoch
All I just want to say for the record, that's four fuck ups for Raja and three for Logan. Okay? He broke the tiebreaker just now. Just want everybody to know that.
- [56:09]
Howard Beck
Mikhail Bridges last five games for the Knicks, by the way, averaging 23 points, four and a half assists and three and a half rebounds. Shooting well from the floor, 63% from the field, 47% on threes. Like Bridges is doing what you need him to do with Jalen Brunson out. And I, I thought this was the way that they might use him all season and I've been surprised that they weren't. Where Bridges can be your secondary or third playmaker, a guy who can run the offense at times, who can handle the ball. We saw it in Phoenix when he was their third or fourth, you know, wheel with Booker, Chris Paul, deandre Ayton, and we saw a little bit of it when Mikhail Bridges was with the Nets. And the Nets just didn't have enough talent around him. And I don't think he's a number one. And you can't build around Mikhail Bridges, but as the third, fourth guy, which with the Knicks, that's his role. There's plenty he can do. I just, I think that, you know, he hasn't had enough latitude and had the ball in his hands enough to, to do it. But we're seeing it right now like they're surviving pretty well. They've won three out of five I think since Brunson went down and a lot of that's Bridges, including that game winning shot. So I like whatever happens with the Knicks this season. I don't think the Bridges trade is going to be the definitive factor.
- [57:23]
Logan Murdoch
Chill out. Next question.
- [57:26]
Cliff
Cliff, next question. This is from Hannah Brown. Headline no end in sight for the Bulls. Hey guys. Been listening to y'all for a while now, but finally getting around to asking a big question that's been on my mind for years. Are the Bulls perpetually stuck as a franchise while the Reinsdorfs are still around? I'm sick of riding the coattails of six championships from 30 years ago and the owners being okay with mediocrity. We seem to always be in a state of rebuild from the end of MJ to D. Rose, then Jimmy Butler and beyond. Is there any hope for us going forward? Be honest. No mercy. Signed Hannah. Just another Sad Bulls fan. P.S. thanks for keeping me sane at work twice a week.
- [58:01]
Logan Murdoch
Less.
- [58:02]
Raja Bell
Shout out Hannah.
- [58:04]
Logan Murdoch
Shout out Hannah. They're down bad. We're going to give this to Howard, huh? What do you think, Roger? I'm give this to Howard. Let him go. Take it away from Cook.
- [58:10]
Howard Beck
How many rants you want in one day from me?
- [58:12]
Logan Murdoch
All of them. We believe in you.
- [58:16]
Howard Beck
The Bulls. The Bulls have been one of the most unimaginative, least ambitious, most frustrating franchises in the league for at least the last five years. Right? I think that's fair to say. They. They seem. Their. Their goal seems to perpetually be like, let's chase the eighth seed or at least the eighth seed back when we had eight guaranteed playoffs. Now it's, let's just chase a play in spot. Like, yeah, they started to tear down finally. Finally, belatedly, you know, finally got rid of DeRozan and Zach Levine, who now are both, weirdly, with the Sacramento Kings. That's a whole other issue to itself. But Vuch is still there. They still haven't really. They've kind of picked a direction. They. They decided to finally break up their mediocre core, but it's not clear what it's all leading to. So, I don't know, like, the bigger issue of, like, you know, whether this is just who they are under this ownership. I mean, look, it's the same ownership where they also won six championships back in the 90s. That's ancient history. I get it. But I don't know if this is about ownership or this is just about the front office, if it's about a combination of the two, but they certainly seem like they have been just mired in mediocrity almost by design, and that's a terrible place to be in the mvp.
- [59:30]
Logan Murdoch
I just. I'm just mad because this question made me look at the Eastern Conference playing race, and yuck. Absolutely nasty dog. Chicago Bulls in Miami Heat are tied for the ninth seed with a record of 29 and 39.
- [59:51]
Howard Beck
Let's do 10 games under.500.
- [59:53]
Logan Murdoch
Let's do one more question and see.
- [59:54]
Raja Bell
Brutal.
- [59:55]
Logan Murdoch
I don't know, man. Let's. Let's do one more question. That was brutal. Sorry, Hannah. Like, I. Shit. I don't know what to say.
- [60:01]
Cliff
All right, last question is funny because ironically, last week, somebody asked about SGA getting calls. So this emailer here, Doug Beck.
- [60:10]
Howard Beck
Love, no relation.
- [60:13]
Cliff
Sure. Love the pot. Why doesn't he get more calls? He drives so much. He drops rewarded like other stars do.
- [60:22]
Logan Murdoch
Oh, my.
- [60:22]
Cliff
Because he doesn't throw tantrums for.
- [60:24]
Logan Murdoch
Stop. I don't want to hear stop. This is ridiculous, bro. What do you want him to have 30 free throws a game? Like, I mean, what are we doing?
- [60:37]
Raja Bell
He earns them if he earns them, I guess you're supposed to have 30, right?
- [60:41]
Logan Murdoch
No, I'm just saying. I'm just saying.
- [60:43]
Raja Bell
Yeah, you can't be. Come on. We can't be crying. We can't be crying for SGA into the free throw line.
- [60:46]
Logan Murdoch
He's for sga.
- [60:46]
Howard Beck
He's leading the league in free throws.
- [60:48]
Raja Bell
We can't. We can't come up.
- [60:49]
Logan Murdoch
What do you need? What do you. What more do you want? Do you want him? Do you want the game to just be like, oh, hey, we're going to go see the Thunder game. It's just no one else on the court is just fucking SGA shooting free throws.
- [60:59]
Raja Bell
Yeah, that's. We can't. We're not going to argue that. I will just say this real quick, and I don't mean to, but I was watching a game the other night, and they. They caught Luca with a mic, like, as he was coming down the court. Usually you can only lip read kind of what he's saying to officials, but the mic caught where he was yelling at this dude, bro. He says some wild. If you ever watch that dude, man, like, and I'm sure he's not the only one. And he might get a lot of texts, and it might be the reason he doesn't get the kind of treatment that people, his fans think he should get. But he says some wild stuff to referees, bro.
- [61:33]
Logan Murdoch
Are y'all cognizant that there are mics around the court? Raja, like, when y'all be. When you'll be.
- [61:38]
Raja Bell
Well, there. There weren't. There weren't nearly as many when I played. Right. But, like, yeah, I mean, we knew about the cameras. That's why you see when anybody's over there on the bench or when people are having conversations, they have their hand over their mouth back in the day. Right? So. Because we knew that. But the mics, you were rarely caught on. On. On Mike. But he had to be running right by, like, the scorers table or maybe by like, the broadcast table in this game. I forget who they were playing against. And he had just something that happened was one of those, like, man, he ain't get fouled, but, like, he wanted to foul. Oh, bro, he. He mother effed that dude all the way up.
- [62:09]
Logan Murdoch
Also, with social media, like, everything that happens that's even interesting on the court, that wise, it's getting picked up, like, you know what I'm saying? That's the other thing.
- [62:18]
Cliff
Let's do.
- [62:19]
Logan Murdoch
I'm sorry, let's do one more because I. That was oh, sorry.
- [62:22]
Raja Bell
Yeah, go ahead. Let's go, let's go, let's go.
- [62:24]
Logan Murdoch
We're on video now. They saw you. They saw it. They saw that. They saw you. They saw what you said. Cliff, let's do one more question for Raja Bell.
- [62:32]
Cliff
All right, this is for Raja Bell specifically. Actually.
- [62:37]
Raja Bell
You gave it to me.
- [62:41]
Cliff
So this is from Aaron Anderson. The email line is Roger's take on Mo Cheeks national anthem. Hi, everyone's crew. Big fan. You're all the best NBA podcasts out there. Thanks for doing your thing. I'm a Blazers fan. And touching moment from our history back in the day was in 2003, when the girl singing the national anthem forgot the words and Blazers coach Mocheeks went up to help her finish the song and get everyone, including players and coaches, to sing along. Turns out that was against Raja's Mavs. Does Raja have any memories about that moment? This came to mind because Cheeks and Nicks were in town and they had the woman, Natalie Zito, sing the anthem 23 years later and meet with him, and she sent links to the video, and then Raja's face was on it and whatnot. So, yeah, you were there.
- [63:21]
Logan Murdoch
Aren't you happy? Aren't you happy, Raja? Aren't you happy that we did an extra question?
- [63:25]
Raja Bell
Sit your ass down somewhere, boy. Yes. That was actually an incredible. Like, that was an incredible moment. I do remember that, man. Like, that. That was. Yeah, that was. It was. It was. It was heartbreaking, like, and. And you just felt helpless. Like, I don't even feel like I could go over to her. I'm sure a lot of people wanted to, like, go over and give her a hug and. And help her, but Mocheeks was the only one that put that into action, man. And, like, you know, especially having kids now, like, you know, I don't know what age she was then. Pretty cool that she got to come back out and do it again as, you know, as an adult, but at the time, I remember being an adolescent. Like, I don't know if she was, like, 13, 14, 15 or something.
- [64:08]
Howard Beck
She was, like, 12 or 13.
- [64:10]
Raja Bell
Yeah, man. Like, how lonely she must have felt out there, how. How her parents were probably feeling because they couldn't do anything either. Like, watching her go out there and just not execute something that she clearly executed all the time. Like, that had to be heartbreaking. And Mo was a champion dog, and I had, like, Mo was with the Blazers, but I had. I had. I had had Mo in. In Philly, I think. Had I had Mo in Philly. I thought I had.
- [64:33]
Logan Murdoch
Was he a coach or an assistant in Philly when you were there?
- [64:35]
Raja Bell
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, like, I knew it. Like, it was just a. That was big time. Yeah, I'm glad you did. I'm glad you did. And. And. And I'm actually excited to hear that she. She was back out there and she got to do it. And, you know, all this time later again. So, like, that's pretty cool.
- [64:49]
Logan Murdoch
I saw Mo Cheeks a few days ago when the Knicks were in town pregame, and he did a full sprint on the court, and everybody like that. I was still doing it like that, bro.
- [65:00]
Raja Bell
God. God bless you.
- [65:02]
Logan Murdoch
Yeah, you got that 5, 6, 40 speed locked in.
- [65:07]
Raja Bell
Hey, 5, 6, 40, bro. If I could run that right now.
- [65:10]
Logan Murdoch
Bro, I would have. I read a 4, 9 once in high school, and I felt like this. I was like, yeah, let's go. My nickname in high school was slogan, but that is the program. Shout out to Ross. Shout out to Cliff. Shout out to Howard. Shout out to Victoria. That is a Tuesday Vibes edition. We will see you guys on Friday. Ah, all this shits, Charles. My evil twin. Show me my evil twin. Real ones. Talk to y'all soon. Bye, Sa.