KAT Leads Knicks to Game 3 Win. Plus, Grizzlies Fall and Face an Uncertain Future.

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ringer NBA Show – "KAT Leads Knicks to Game 3 Win. Plus, Grizzlies Fall and Face an Uncertain Future."

Release Date: April 25, 2025

Hosts:

• Larry Murdoch
• Raja Bell
• Howard Beck
• Special Guest: Cliff Augustine

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1. Introduction and Setting the Stage

The episode kicks off with the hosts diving straight into the NBA playoffs, focusing on two pivotal narratives: the New York Knicks' Game 3 victory led by Karl-Anthony Towns (KAT) and the Memphis Grizzlies' unexpected fall, raising questions about their future.

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2. Karl-Anthony Towns’ Stellar Performance with the Knicks

Larry Murdoch initiates the discussion by highlighting Karl-Anthony Towns' exceptional performance in Game 3 against the Detroit Pistons. He remarks:

"I was not expecting a Carl Towns legacy game. [...] he has done that thus far in game three, and I want him to continue to do that for the rest of the series and by extension, the rest of the playoffs." ([02:00])

Raja Bell echoes the sentiment, emphasizing KAT's aggressive play despite defensive double-teams:

"He did a much better job of just catching and shooting... staying aggressive." ([06:00])

Howard Beck adds depth by discussing KAT's reputation and the importance of his performance in establishing himself as a top-tier player:

"Anthony Towns is who he is. And I don't think there's anything... you do have to prove it over and over again in the playoffs." ([09:06])

The hosts collectively agree that KAT's consistent high-level performances are crucial for the Knicks' postseason success and his personal reputation in the league.

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3. Refereeing Controversies in Game 3

A segment ensues where Larry Murdoch questions the officiating in the final moments of Game 3, particularly an out-of-bounds play involving Jalen Brunson. Raja Bell deflects initially but later admits:

"I love the way they're reffing the series. [...] They’re getting after it in a way that’s fun to watch but not over the top." ([15:28])

Howard Beck concurs, noting that the referees maintained control without stifling the physicality of the game:

"I love what they’re doing officiating, allowing physical play without losing control of the series." ([17:27])

This discussion underscores the balance referees must maintain between allowing competitive play and preventing excessive aggression.

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4. The Grizzlies’ Unexpected Exit and Future Prospects

Larry Murdoch shifts focus to the Memphis Grizzlies’ surprising defeat in their series against the Oklahoma City Thunder. Howard Beck laments:

"It’s 3, 0. No one ever has a comeback from 3, 0. We know this, this is done." ([28:28])

Raja Bell analyzes the Thunder's resilience and the Grizzlies' vulnerabilities:

"This series is not a real big three. [...] The Grizzlies are going to have to do a lot of soul searching." ([30:35])

Howard Beck further critiques the Grizzlies' core group, suggesting they lack the necessary depth and synergy:

"This is not a real big three... not individually, not collectively." ([31:29])

The consensus is that the Grizzlies need significant changes to remain competitive in future seasons.

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5. Player Conduct and Maturity: The Cases of Anthony Edwards and Ja Morant

A heated discussion arises around player maturity, specifically focusing on Anthony Edwards and Ja Morant.

Larry Murdoch brings up Edwards' fines for on-court conduct:

"Anthony Edwards got fined $50,000 for talking about yelling into the stands." ([44:11])

Raja Bell differentiates between the two players, emphasizing the severity of their actions:

"Ja is involved with dangerous behavior, like brandishing weapons... that’s different than Ant having self-control issues on the court." ([54:06])

Howard Beck advocates for giving young players grace while holding them accountable:

"Give players a lot of grace... but they do have to show some ability to evolve." ([56:00])

The hosts agree that while authenticity is valued, players must balance their personalities with the responsibilities that come with being role models.

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6. Coaching Decisions and Team Management

The hosts delve into coaching strategies and management decisions, particularly criticizing teams that prematurely replace experienced coaches with unproven assistants.

Raja Bell voices skepticism about new head coaches in playoff situations:

"If you've tuned out the head coach... there's a percentage chance that we will listen to that." ([38:20])

Larry Murdoch concurs, highlighting the challenges new coaches face against seasoned opponents:

"They [new coaches] have no chance." ([39:25])

This segment underscores the importance of experienced leadership in managing high-stakes playoff series.

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7. Thunder vs. Grizzlies Series and Broader Implications

The conversation examines the Thunder’s comeback abilities and how the Grizzlies’ loss impacts their organizational outlook.

Howard Beck criticizes the Grizzlies for lacking a substantial core:

"This big three... They’re not good enough." ([30:35])

Raja Bell discusses potential trade scenarios and future strategies for the Grizzlies:

"They are going to have to come to grips with that sooner than later." ([31:29])

The hosts conclude that the Grizzlies must reevaluate their roster and strategies to rebuild effectively.

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8. Audience Interaction and Q&A

The episode includes a mailbag segment where listeners pose questions about team management and game strategies. Notably, Raja Bell discusses hypothetical trade scenarios involving players like Jamal Murray and Michael Porter Jr., emphasizing strategic roster adjustments to enhance team performance.

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9. Final Thoughts and Conclusion

As the episode wraps up, the hosts reiterate the Knicks' need for continued excellence from KAT and the Grizzlies' necessity to address foundational issues. They also touch upon the evolving nature of player conduct in the age of social media, emphasizing the balance between authenticity and responsibility.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Larry Murdoch at [02:00]:
  "I was not expecting a Carl Towns legacy game. [...] he has done that thus far in game three, and I want him to continue to do that for the rest of the series and by extension, the rest of the playoffs."

• Howard Beck at [06:39]:
  "Anthony Towns is who he is. And I don't think there's anything... you do have to prove it over and over again in the playoffs."

• Raja Bell at [54:06]:
  "Ja is involved with dangerous behavior, like brandishing weapons... that’s different than Ant having self-control issues on the court."

• Howard Beck at [57:52]:
  "It’s 3, 0. No one ever has a comeback from 3, 0. We know this, this is done."

---

Conclusion

This episode of The Ringer NBA Show provides a comprehensive analysis of the Knicks' promising postseason run led by Karl-Anthony Towns and scrutinizes the Grizzlies' unexpected playoff exit. The hosts offer insightful commentary on player performances, team strategies, coaching decisions, and the evolving landscape of player conduct in professional basketball. Through their dynamic discussion, listeners gain a nuanced understanding of the current NBA playoff narratives and the underlying factors influencing team success and player reputations.

Transcript

[Zach Lowe]

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[Raja Bell]

Welcome to the brand new Zach Lowe Show. That's right, I'm back to have the same in depth NBA conversations you're used to. We're going to talk about the games. Yeah, the games. The X's and O's. The drama, the trades. The playoffs are coming up and now you get to see every episode in full on video on Spotify and on my own YouTube channel. Episodes drop every every Monday and Thursday with a collection of guests you're going to love. So make sure you follow and subscribe to the brand new Zach Lowe show on Spotify or wherever you watch or listen to your podcast. Let's go.

[Zach Lowe]

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[Larry Murdoch]

What's poppin? Real ones. Larry Murdoch here, Roger Bell there. Howard Beck and the motherfucker cut Victoria on the video. Cliff on the boards. Man, what a week of postseason play and storylines. Can't wait to get into it. I just want to make the disclaimer. I wanted to start this show by talking about OKC and their comeback, but Cliff last night said no, we got to talk about the New York Knicks first. Because bigger city, bigger market. So for any of you real ones out there that think we disrespect small markets. It's not us, it's our producer. So we're going to talk about the Knicks first. The Knicks took game two or game three, excuse me, of the first round series against the Pistons. What a game, man. I was not expecting a Carl Towns legacy game. Me and how. Me and Raja talked about how at least I wanted to see more from Carl Towns and who am I? But I wanted to see more from him as a number two, and he more than delivered. There is a line when I was a kid, Raja and Howard, you know, I was really, you know, misguided and trying to figure out. And I used to listen to this rapper by the name of Webby. Still listen to him. He has a record called I'm Hot on the Savage Life 2 album. And there's a line on there that says, I'm gonna be bigger than Giga if they don't hit me up first. Right. And I always took that mindset seriously, and I wanted Carl Towns to evoke that mindset. And he has done that thus far in game three. And I want him to continue to do that for the rest of the series and by extension, the rest of the playoffs. Raja, how does he evoke that mindset throughout the playoffs?

[Raja Bell]

I'm going to be bigger than Jigga unless they hit me up first. That might.

[Larry Murdoch]

That level of confidence. Yes, that's the line. We need that level of confidence. How does he keep.

[Raja Bell]

I think you guys don't hear that banging. Nobody hears that.

[Larry Murdoch]

Okay. No, we don't hear that banging.

[Raja Bell]

Okay, I'm going to block it out. Then I just went noise reducing as I. So I thought he did a good job. Look, clearly, Clearly Detroit, we talked about the double teams they were sending at him, you know, in game two. They look to have confused him a bit. If it. I mean, I need to really go back and look at it. I didn't see the. The variety of looks that they gave him in game too, but he was like, fuck that. Which is what you have to be when you are a number one or a 1A or 1B, a 2, a 2. Like, you can't accept those doubles in the way that don't allow you to do your job. And I thought last night he did a really good job of, you know, knowing where it was coming from, knowing it was going to be there regardless and just being aggressive despite that. So, you know, he got himself going. There were some, you know, he did a much better job of just catching and shooting, which, you know, if you're doing that and you're not having to get into your, you know, quote unquote bag. It doesn't give any type of double a chance to really get there. You're just squeezing open looks. But even when he did and they got him the ball, free throw line extended or below, he went to work in a way that kept him out of the paint a lot of times and away from the double. And so, like, you just have to be aggressive. Like, you just have to look at what they did to you from game to game, figure out, you know, that baseline flood that they were using against him, you know, primarily last night. He did a really good job of either attacking quick to the middle on it, kind of leaving that guy that's on the baseline kind of out of position to really affect him on a double, or when he went towards the baseline, it was some sort of fade pull up like something before he got to the secondary defender. So I, you know, you just stay aggressive and make your mind up that even if they're doubling, unless it's just a red where they're hitting you and making you get rid of the ball, that you're going to get up a certain amount of shots, like, you know, your team needs you to produce to a certain degree, you can't accept a defensive, a defensive like game plan that's going to like, take you out of your ability to produce for your team if you can, if you can help it.

[Larry Murdoch]

Howard, we, you know, the league, and by extension sports in general is all about reputation. And reputationally, Karl Towns in the post season hasn't been very good, right? Like he, he has taken his lumps both the majority of his time in Minnesota, reputationally. If he continues to play like this, what does this do for him and the NBA eye and basketball at large, what does this do for him if he continues to be that number two, continues to play hard, continues to put up the numbers that he's putting up, and most importantly, the Knicks win in the postseason.

[Howard Beck]

Well, that, that last part is obviously the most important part, right? Like if, if Towns has a big first round and the Knicks somehow lose anyway, that's not going to do anything for anybody. You know, Towns has suffered from a couple of different things in the course of his career, right? Like one, smaller market Minnesota. Two, bad ownership, Minnesota, not the greatest supporting cast. Although, you know, look, he's had multiple fellow number one draft picks with him. Some of them just haven't performed like number one overall draft picks. Hello, Andrew Wiggins. So there's been a lot on him, but Also, you know, like, there's a lot of personality stuff and a lot of reputational stuff that just has to do with, like, perceptions of Towns, right? Like, he's. He's kind of corny. Sometimes he talks the way he talks. He gets caught on. On the. The. Not caught on, but like, when he was miked up a couple years back, and he's like, now they got to come to our house or whatever it was. They got to come to Minnesota. Like, he just, he just. He doesn't come off like your typical or prototypical NBA badass, right? So some of this is just perception because the numbers, I think, are usually there. I thought that the. The nice thing last night, he came out incredibly aggressive. And, you know, some of that was just hitting his first few threes and some of that was actually going. Going to the basketball. He got it in that, that. That little scuffle between him and Paul Reed and Mitchell Robinson and you know, just kind of like, all right, I'm in this. Like, and, you know, he smiled as. It's. As it was starting to. To get broken up. Like, we're not really doing this because it's the NBA in 2025. No one's really doing this. But he was right in there. I thought that was good. He had a late block, like the final minute or two. Big block. Like, that was important. It's stuff like that. Like, you know, like, car. Anthony Towns is who he is. And I don't think there's anything. No one should be criticizing that we get too caught up in the personality stuff. I'm not even. I don't even like bringing that up because I don't want to put too much weight on it. But it is. The way that people see him is a little bit through the way he presents himself as a player. The dude's great. But you, you do have to prove it over and over again in the playoffs. And some of that has to do with your toughness on both ends of the court. Some of that has to do with delivering in crunch time. And that block goes a long way for that. They've got control of the series again.

[Raja Bell]

They.

[Howard Beck]

They took home court advantage back, and that's huge. There's now all the pressure in the world on this young Pistons team to win Game 4 at home, because if they don't, they're toast.

[Raja Bell]

Can I just add to that? I agree, I agree with it. My bad. Logan, before you to somebody up the block, the Crunch poster, fade to the baseline. Those are big time clutch plays that go towards kind of changing the narrative. But I would argue, even if, let's say the Knicks didn't win the series, right. Hypothetically. But he played to that level night in and night out through the course of seven games. You know, I think that's a step for him too, right? Because we're talking about having those performances consistently, right? Like, not, not. Right. That's what we're talking about. Right. Can he consistently deliver, you know, to that, to that level? Maybe not to the tune of the exact point, you know, production last night, but that's, that's the narrative I think he's trying to shake. Like in these playoffs, can I consistently be like a true one B or a number two? And so, you know, I. But he's got to do that night in and night out. It can't be like I show up every, you know, two games. Like, this is a job that requires consistency.

[Larry Murdoch]

Well, I think about when you, when you say that, Raja, all the times that you have talked about how role players have a relationship with the stars in the way on court, right? Where if you can pencil in player X, who is a star to get you 28, 5 and 5, that really helps the rest of the roster, like the Raja Bells, like the OG Anunobis, like Josh Harts, helps them, put them where their place is. But like, when your star is inconsistent in the way that cat can be. We. Even in the regular season, that kind of messes up the flow, right? Where you're like, I don't know if is he going to give me 25 or is he going to give me 15? I don't know if I can pencil it in. So then it kind of puts pressure on the other guys, right, to do that and yeah. When there isn't that consistency, right.

[Raja Bell]

Well, I was a little, I mean, I was a little. Like I lacked self awareness, I guess, because I didn't, I didn't really care what a star did. Like I, if tar was missing, I got more shots. Like I give shit I was trying to get dirty, you know what I mean? Like, that's just fuck them, you know. But that's the feeling I had, right? Like whether I'm right or wrong, I just felt like, hey, I don't get to do it because they're better than me, but if they're not here, that just means I got to do it. So, so. But yeah, generally speaking, I do agree with you, Logan. Like for the, for, for the, for most, for most guys who have settled into a role in the NBA, it's unfair to ask them to have to step into someone else's role regularly and in those type of environments for the team to be successful. One offs. Sure, dude. Like, any role player on any given night can pop off and, and get you 30 and help you win a game. Like, but if that role player is having to do that every third night because we don't know if our true stars are going to show up, I mean, that speaks to bigger problems and that's, you know, we're not equipped to do that. We could be as lacking as much self awareness as I clearly was. But, like, that's, that's not my job. There's a reason that's not my job because I can't do that consistently. So asking. That's why you're getting paid. But you're getting paid, mofo. That's your job. So, yes, we need, we need you guys to, you know, come out and, you know, have the look in your eye, man. It might not, it might not always translate into success. You know, it might not translate into, you had the 27 that we needed, but if it looks like you only shot 11 shots, you didn't shoot a shot in the fourth quarter, you know, the stats from game two, that, that's like, we weren't even there to like, compete and do the job we're paid to do. And that's different for a role player. Do you understand what I'm saying? Like, I. Look, if you're out there swinging, shooting, doing what you normally do and you're not making them, dude, we're all human. But it is a much more comforting spot for the role guy to look into the star's eyes and say, okay, he's here for the shits. Like, whether this works or not. Like, he's here tonight. And then you let the chips fall where they may.

[Larry Murdoch]

I want to talk to you about one of your favorite subjects, Raja. The referees, because they're love it.

[Raja Bell]

Wait, no, go ahead, go ahead, go ahead. I love this series, though. I love the series. It's my favorite series.

[Larry Murdoch]

Yeah, Yeah. I mean, that's why we're one of the reasons why we're leading the show with it. But like, so in the last 10 seconds, and I want to get your opinion on it as a basketball opinion, I forget what the score was, but they were, it was, it was a side out of bounds play and the Knicks get the ball to Brunson and it seems like it was an over and back. Right? Even Brunson. Like, I feel like with, with basketball Players, they always snitch on themselves by the reactions that they have. I remember Quentin Post when I was in Houston, had fouled somebody behind the line and he didn't even fake it. He said, fuck really loud, right? Like, he didn't even fake the. Tried to like, play it off. And Brunson did the same thing. When he caught the ball, it seemed like he was like, oh, shit, shit. Just a by court a backcourt and he got fouled. They gave him award him to free throw. Zach Zarba said that in the pool report. Brunson and the trajectory of the pass were headed toward the backcourt. Brunson's momentum was taking him there when his body touches the ball. That's why that play was legal. So that happens, right? And then I think it was a second left. Brunson shoots a free throw, intentionally tries to miss a free throw because there was no more seconds. If I don't think that the Pistons had timeouts, there was not enough time for them to, if they miss, to actually heave a shot. It proved their probability to win. But the clock didn't go off. I believe what happened was the ball. The clock went out when the ball hit the rim as opposed to when someone touched the ball. All that being said, how would you grade the refereeing and the final 20 seconds of the game? And do you agree with the cause? The last one is a bit more just like it's a mistake. The first one is a little bit more of a gray area.

[Raja Bell]

I mean, I'm. Look, in fairness, I was at that point the draft was going on to the NFL draft. So, you know, I was. I did not really pay attention to that backcourt factor.

[Larry Murdoch]

Love the Raiders pick, by the way. Go ahead, Raiders.

[Raja Bell]

Yeah, so I. That one wasn't really on my radar like that. Like, as if I had just been watching the broadcast by itself and locked in like that. And when I rewatched this morning, I didn't spend any time on it either, so. So I don't have a great answer for you as it relates to that 20 seconds, Logan. What I will say is I love the way they're reffing the series. And that's kind of the reason, you know, I say this is my favorite series. I mean, they're. You know, these games are compelling. You know, we can say whatever we want, but like, like New York's closers closed better last night. You know, Carl Anthony Towns and Jalen Brunson, like, they closed better. So, you know, I thought they deserved to win it. Like Two minutes left in the game. They were able to get to what they wanted to do and get those buckets in a way that Detroit didn't do as well. But. But as it relates to the refs, they're letting them hoop. The level of physicality in this series is really, really, really fun for me to watch. They're. They're getting after it. You're seeing bodies on the ground, dudes. There are multiple scuffles where guys are getting a little upset with each other. The amount of. The amount of 50. 50 balls that are being pursued by, like, two guys, you know, diving. Three guys diving in there. I think the refs are doing a good job of letting this series be physical to a point, because I like that it's more fun for me to watch, but not letting it get over the top. I don't think they've lost control of this series, and that's not an easy thing to do to allow guys that big, that strong, that competitive to really get after each other in a way that you normally don't see now and not have it boiling over all the time to still be able to have some control over that. So I like the way it's been officiated, by and large.

[Larry Murdoch]

Good shit, Roz. Out here. Look at you. You're complimenting the refs, man. Look at that. That's called growth.

[Raja Bell]

And listen, I. It's not called growth. What I do is call a spade a spade. Whether you agree with me or not, as I see it, that's what the fuck I'm going to call it. So don't.

[Howard Beck]

Don't accuse Raj of growing or evolving.

[Raja Bell]

Not for that.

[Larry Murdoch]

God forbid. God forbid. I compliment the man, Howard.

[Howard Beck]

I, too, refuse to grow up.

[Raja Bell]

Yeah, fuck that.

[Larry Murdoch]

We got. We got. We got two Toys R Us kids in here. Howard, how big of a series is this for the. We know how big of a series this is for the Pistons for all the reasons. Right, Just because they haven't been on the stage. But how big of a series is this for the Knicks, right where all season we've basically just been writing their obituary talking about their. Including Cliff, by the way, chief among them, mostly right in there with us. Mostly Cliff. Yeah. Who. I'll give him a chance to defend himself in a second. But how important is this for them and their psyche for a game like this to happen, right where this is a bame. Threes, fives, and sevens are all always huge games in series, and for him to. What up, Beck's cat who was out here just Wanted to make an appearance as well. And Beck is trying to hold it together. Yeah, just jumped in your lap. Okay. Anyway, for Beck and the cat. And the cat is welcome to answer the question as well. How big of a series is this for them? Knowing all the things that we have talked about about them, about maybe their readiness throughout the season and maybe if they could get upset at end this round, they're kind of pushing back on this early in the series.

[Howard Beck]

I mean, listen, this has been, and I wrote about this last week between games one and two or earlier in the week, I should say even Knicks fans, including our buddy Ben Stiller, who was at the game last night with Timothy Chalamet, like casually.

[Larry Murdoch]

Ben just was like, yeah, I'm going shallow tomorrow.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah, he got more screen time than Chalamet last night on the, on the broadcast.

[Larry Murdoch]

Crazy. It's crazy.

[Howard Beck]

The place was apparently ear splitting according to. To Ben and everybody else. Jake Fisher, our buddy, tweeted at one point that he couldn't hear the whistles. And then like if you heard J.B. bickerstaff afterward, like Jimmy Bickerstaff might have blown out a vocal cord. Like he sounded like awful. That that place was crazy. Even Knicks fans this season, and I know a lot of them obviously here in New York have been like, really kind of like not sure what to make of the Knicks. Like, okay, you went all out to add Towns and Mikhail Bridges and are you demonstrably better? Because the record and everything else suggests that you're about the same, you know, a little better offensively, a little worse off defensively, a little less depth, little less grit because they lost Divincenzo and Isa Isaiah Hartenstein. Like, they just, they're not necessarily better, worse or otherwise. They're just different. And all that said, you still expect you have to at least be getting out of the first round. Like I think the Knicks and their fans understand like they, they are a talent level below the Celtics. And that collision course is, is not, does not bode well for the Knicks getting to the conference finals. But you do have to at least win the first round series. So I think when, when you lose home court advantage and when the, you know, look, the Pistons, even in first in game one, they were holding up pretty well. They fell apart in the fourth quarter because that's what happens to a young team making its first playoff appearance. Game two showed that, that the Pistons have adjusted. They figured out how to play in this environment. But last night, fourth quarter kind of was more reminiscent of game one. Like Cunningham's pulling up short on a, on a. I think it was a three pointer and, you know, a couple of miscues, a couple of bad turnovers that, I mean, obviously I don't think that the Pistons were going to do anything with that last inbounds play with a half a second left, but Jalen Duran's inbounds pass flying over him and out of bounds, like, stuff like that's going to kill you. So the Knicks are back in control and I think winning this series, all it will do for them. This doesn't do anything for the Knicks other than gets the weight off for a minute. It's a, it's a sigh of relief, like, okay, we didn't get snuffed in the first round because if they lose in the first round, that's when there's hell to pay. And the Knicks have been really stable for the last several years, ever since Leon Rose and Tom Thibodeau arrived. But a first round exit, there would be a lot of noise. So they, they need to win this, if for no other reason than to show we're still on the right track and then see where things go against Boston.

[Larry Murdoch]

Yeah, where before I put a ball on this, let's go back to Detroit. Well, no, before I put a ball on this. Cliff, come here, buddy. Come on, let's. Let's see, let's see what you got to say, man.

[Cliff Augustine]

Cliff was good.

[Larry Murdoch]

Cliff. We talked a lot of man. Shout out. Saba, baby. Shout out to all the homies. Shout out to everybody in Detroit.

[Cliff Augustine]

Yo, Detroit. Detroit showed out last night, bro. Every Detroit won.

[Larry Murdoch]

Detroit. The crowd won the game.

[Cliff Augustine]

Every celebrity in Detroit was there, dog.

[Larry Murdoch]

How are you feeling during the series, you were talking a lot of shit about on behalf of the Pistons. You had two words, Detroit basketball. I thought you moved there for a second. How are you feeling about this series?

[Cliff Augustine]

Detroit like Detroit, like a. Detroit, like a second third home to me. So first of all, it's always all love with the D, you know what I'm saying? Shout out to my man, Craig Reynolds, you know what I'm saying? Detroit's running back, that's my guy. But let's just put it this way, dog. I'm still riding with the Pistons, you know. I wish my boy Isaiah Stewart was playing, you know, he instilled some toughness. Cat wouldn't have got all them damn easy buckets, you know. Last night it was just a little rough night for the Pistons. They probably a little shell shock. Damn. Everybody finally came to the game. Everybody was iced out. They was blinded by everybody on the sidelines when they do that little the Flash game.

[Larry Murdoch]

Blinded by the moment, Roger. Wow.

[Cliff Augustine]

But look, Detroit, my team, Detroit, we gonna make this little comeback. Cade's gonna be a little bit more efficient next game. He won't go 10 for 25. We got to play Tobias Harris less because trust me, I know about the Tobias Harris experience. Switch some things up, Switch some things up. Switch some things up a little bit. And I mean we back in it. Come on, Detroit, baby. 313 Detroit basketball. Let's go.

[Larry Murdoch]

Everybody in the three one, three. I think Cliff's, I think Cliff likes, likes Detroit because if he squints hard enough, it's a red, white and blue team. And he's like, is this the Sixers maybe? No, never mind. You know, FanDuel is letting you get in on the NBA playoffs action right from the first tip because right now all customers can get a no sweat same game parlay every weekend when you bet the NBA playoffs. That's right. Just use your token on three plus leg same game parlay or same game parlay plus on any NBA playoff game and you'll get bonus bets back if you don't win. Let's take a look at the slate Celtics Magic I think the Celtics win outright and I'm going to take the over on Paolo points. Let's look at the Pacers Bucks. I think I'm going to take the Pacers outright, but I'm going to take Tyrese Halliburton on the over on assists. I'm going to take the Timberwolves and the Timberwolves over the Lakers and I'm going to take the over on points, rebounds and assists on Anthony Edwards. Think he's going to do a good job. And I love betting on FanDuel. With their great promotions every day, their safe and secure app, and most importantly the instant payments, there's no better place to bet on all the playoff action than America's number one sportsbook. Visit fanduel.com ringernba and get a no sweat same game parlay every weekend of the NBA playoffs. That's FanDuel.com ringernba FanDuel.com official sports betting partner of the NBA must be 21 years and older in president select states or 18 and older and present in D.C. opt in required minimum three leg parlay required refund issued as non withdrawable bonus bets that expire seven days after receipt. Max refund $5 unless otherwise specified. Restrictions app including token expiration. See terms of sportsbook.fanduel.com gambling problem. Call 1-800- GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com this episode is brought to you by Indeed. A successful season starts with picking the right players for your team. If I were picking a team, I picked some of the greatest players of all time. Maybe I get Kareem at the 5, maybe I get Tim Duncan at the 4, LeBron at the 3, Jordan at the 2, and Kobe at the 1. Or maybe I'll get Steph at the 1. Step at the 1 will be pretty cool too. If you want to hire the best players for your business and quickly, you need Indeed. Their sponsor jobs help you stand out and reach relevant candidates faster. Plus, with Indeed sponsored jobs, there are no monthly subscriptions, no long term contracts, and you pay for the results. There's no need to wait any longer. Speed up your hiring right now with Indeed. Listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility@ Indeed.com RingerMBA that's Indeed.com RingerMBA right now. And support our show by saying you heard about Indeed. This podcast indeed.com ringermba Terms and conditions apply. Hiring Indeed is all you need.

[Zach Lowe]

This episode is brought to you by Brooks so my friends at Brooks sent me the new Glycerin 22 and after using them for a while these are my thoughts. So I really like the give that they have on these shoes. There's a big old cushion on the sole, but not to the point where we're talking about a platform shoe, which is what I think you see a lot of modern shoes kind of lean toward. They're not chunky, more of like a running silhouette, which I really appreciated. And also I think they're kind, kind of stylish, but in a way that like an old guy like me doesn't feel uncomfortable. Wearing a lot of shoes can be a little ostentatious, I would say, but these have a nice color. I got the London Fog ones. I highly recommend those. So go to BrooksRunning.com to learn more.

[Raja Bell]

Prices keep going up these days it feels like being on an elevator that.

[Larry Murdoch]

Only goes up going up. But not at Metro Metro we're pushing the down button. Going down.

[Raja Bell]

We've lowered prices and give you a.

[Howard Beck]

Five year price guarantee on top.

[Raja Bell]

Text and data get one line of 5G data for $40 period.

[Howard Beck]

That's 20 lower only at Metro.

[Raja Bell]

Five year guarantee on eligible plans. Exclusions apply. See website for details. Not available Fab Metro with T Mobile.

[Larry Murdoch]

In the past six months Tax Supplies. Let's do a little round robin about playoffs from last night and ask you guys some questions about some series. Then we're going to get to our branded segment from Amazon. Thunder Grizzlies. Wow. Historic collapse of fumbling of the bag or an historic comeback, depending on what side of the ledger you are on. We're going to take the Memphis part real quick. So the Memphis just pack this thing up and, and go home. Howard, is it, is it over? Is this series like. Like this has been the most. I guess this is a really entertaining game, but like, I don't think anyone's surprised by this outcome. Right? It's the. The OKC is up 3, 30 for a reason. Like, what are we learning? What are we learning from this series, Howard?

[Howard Beck]

Not much. We're. We're learning that I was right 20 years ago when I said they never should have abandoned the best of five first round because then this thing would just be over and the Grizzlies would be out of their misery and we wouldn't have to watch any more of these games or even pay attention. It should just be over. Second to that, if we are going to have a best of seven first round series, which we've now had for 20 something years, much to my chagrin, we need like a mercy rule. You get blown out by like, it's just done. It's just over. Like they were on pace for like, like the biggest point differential in playoff history or something. I mean, look, kudos to the Grizzlies for fighting back last night and for having a 29 point lead and who knows what happens in that game if Jod doesn't go out on that, on that scary play.

[Raja Bell]

I do. I do. They win. No, they win that game.

[Howard Beck]

Do you think they win?

[Raja Bell]

Yeah. They win that game anyway.

[Howard Beck]

Maybe.

[Raja Bell]

Sorry.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah, maybe. We'll see. Who knows? Or we won't see. It's all hypothetical. I mean, look, the Thunder are really good and when they want to clamp down defensively, as we saw again last night, and easier to do when jaws not out there. But still, like, I am not dismissing the possibility that even down 29 with jaw healthy, that the Thunder might have just clamped down and the Grizzlies might have faded because that's what both teams have done all season, right? It's unfortunate it happened the way it did. It's unfortunate that Ja got hurt. But yeah, I mean, it's 3, 0. No one ever has a comeback from 3, 0. We know this, this, this one's done. I Think the only real question, and this has been the only real question ever since they got smoked in game one. It's really just about this offseason. And the one thing, like, not to be overly glib about what do we learn? You do learn something about contenders, right? Like, they could have lost by double digits last night, and then everybody be like, oh, maybe the Thunder, you know, do have some. Some vulnerabilities. But, you know, look, I've seen plenty of great teams. You know, like the Celtics win the championship in 08. They had to go seven against the Hawks in the first round. I think, like, no team won a. Won a road game in that series that happened.

[Larry Murdoch]

They won a road game into the. Into the finals that year.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah. So, like, sometimes stuff comes up and you don't remember the details later. You just remember the team was a champion. But last night, I think it was the first time in a while that people might have looked and gone, whoa, are the. Are the Thunder really built to go through three rounds in the west and then go beat the Celtics or whoever for the championship? I wouldn't put that much stock in it myself. I think this is what this is all ultimately leading to is obviously Thunder advancing and having stiffer tests and the Grizzlies having to do a hell of a lot of soul searching about this core group. Zach Low and I talked about this on his pod earlier in the week. Like, this is not a real big three. We call it a big three because we throw that term around a lot. But this is not a real big three job. Bane and Jared Jaron Jackson Jr just aren't good enough. Not individually, not collectively. And the Grizzlies are going to have to come to grips with that sooner than later.

[Larry Murdoch]

Maybe they have, according to Howard Beck in February.

[Howard Beck]

Stop. Stop it.

[Larry Murdoch]

Roger, what did you learn about the Thunder in this. In this comeback?

[Raja Bell]

Yeah, no, it's a. I mean, it's a good comeback. I agree with Howard. Like, that's. That's what. That's what you hope to see out of teams that think that they have a chance to win a championship is they just keep chopping. Right. Like, and they found themselves, you know, in a hostile environment against a team that was red hot. And, you know, they just kept chopping even before the jaw went out. They hit the skids offensively there in that. What was that? The second quarter? For a while, they just couldn't make a bucket, and they weren't defending up to their normal standard. They just kept hooping, they kept playing, they kept Competing, and then, you know, unfortunately, the jaw fall. I. I am. I am 99.9% sure that with John Morant there, I don't care how much they lock down okc, that is, you're probably not winning that game. You're not coming back from 30 with a true cre. A true guy that can break down defense. They just lost their ability to. To break down defense in any real way. Right. Everyone was out there just trying to fend for themselves and create shots. You got guys that aren't normal creators. You know, with JA out there, it just creates opportunity by the nature of the coverages that they have to play. But having said that, like, I. I am. That's impressive. Whether he was there or not, it was impressive to see OKC come back. I do. I do want to touch on, like, there are a few things that kind of triggered me a little bit. It was the play with Ja and all the Lou Dort, like, you know, what Lou Dort was getting, and, you know, he got a little bit of shit. Some people gave him a pass. And then, you know, the other one when. Where Jimmy Butler. I guess we'll get to that series eventually. And that play, and. And I saw some people, especially with the Lou Dort one, just saying, like, how dirty of a play it was. I just. I just didn't see it like that.

[Larry Murdoch]

I didn't.

[Raja Bell]

I mean, it's an unfortunate fall. Both of them are. You don't want to see anyone.

[Larry Murdoch]

Same with Ahmed. I didn't think that was ballistic.

[Raja Bell]

No, no. At all. At all.

[Howard Beck]

I'm glad we all agree on this one. I was curious to hear Raja on this. Like, neither of these plays struck me as dirty. They just struck me as unfortunate and circumstantial. And, yeah, like, Lou Dort's leg was slipping out, for his foot was slipping out from under him. And then he's reaching back while he's off balance because he doesn't. All of a sudden, the ball's gone behind him and he's like, turning around. It's split second, and he's off balance. And. And Josh Tiffin, the referee, when they reviewed it, said as much. So anyway, sorry. Go, Roger.

[Raja Bell]

Yeah, no, you know, you're right. It was. It was a tough play. And even, like, let's say. Let's say, like, it's never a good idea to bridge someone. And by bridge someone, I mean, like, when they are up in the air off a 1 foot or 2ft, you take your body and chop their legs out from under them. There's no. There's no place for that. Like that. That's not something that. That you should be doing. And if you see someone do that, they are a dirty player. Right? Like that.

[Larry Murdoch]

That.

[Raja Bell]

But, like, let's say in the world where Lou Dort is not falling down and he's chasing an offensive player who's going to lay it in, and that offensive player drops it behind him. Right? He drops it behind Lou Dort. So Lou Dort is turning around to see a John Morant, like, launching himself in the air. Lou Dord has every right to make a play on that ball. Like, not to bridge him or undercut him, but to make a play on the ball. And if that play on the ball results in a fall, like, we've gotten to a point where you can't even make a play on a ball once someone decides they're going to launch themselves in the air. I disagree with that.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up, because there was one thing that hit me in rewatching this a little bit, probably way too many times, but I was curious just to kind of see sequence of events and. And where Lou Dort's body was and how, you know, he's slipping and all this stuff. But to your point, Raja, like, if. If he stays upright and all he does is turn around as a defender, which is what you're supposed to do. I don't want to, like, you know, like, blame the victim here, but, like, Jaw tried to launch himself over Lou Dort. Yeah, like, Jaw, you could have, like, decided to cut around him. And especially since Dort can't see you like, you. You would have easily gotten around him because he can't react in real time as he's turning around. Some of this is John Morant deciding he always wants to dunk on guys. And a lot of what's happened to him in the course of his career. We've talked about this, too. He gets hurt a lot because he's built the way he's built, and he launches himself into traffic and. And at bigger guys all the time. He put himself in jeopardy. Frankly, I. I feel bad for what happened to him, but he put himself in jeopardy with the way he decided to. To launch himself.

[Raja Bell]

Yeah, he plays balls to the wall. And I. And kudos to that. And I. And I. And you. You wind up with some amazing highlights when you're doing that. But, like, if someone plays defense in a way that. That puts you in a tough spot there, like that. That's. That doesn't make it dirty. And so like, I, I, I just wanted to address that. The second thing I, I think is interesting and like this is kind of what I was saying. They, Denver finds themselves in a situation with their back against the wall. Clearly Memphis is in a situation where, I mean, they're probably already have slid off the wall and they're out the door. But the point is, both of these teams tried to sell us on having these two coaches giving their rosters the best chance to be competitive in the short term, which I called bullshit on when they tried to sell that to us. Right. In a world where you said to me we're not having an open coaching search at the end of this season, Tuomas La Salo and Adelman will be the coaches of these respective teams going forward. And what we'd like to do is give them some real time playoff experience, giving them a head start going into next year. Okay, fine. But nobody's really said that both of these teams are going to have probably open coaching searches and go in the direction that they see fit. And in that world, you're trying to sell me that these two dudes are better equipped in these situations to put these cats in the best, the best possible head coach dad to get out of it.

[Larry Murdoch]

Fucking Ty Lu.

[Raja Bell]

No. And I had experienced head coaches in place that these two guys, their first time around the block, the first time in the head chair, the first time in the playoffs, are going to give these respective rosters the best chance to be competitive.

[Larry Murdoch]

Like, that's bullshit.

[Raja Bell]

And that's what I was saying back then. And it, and I don't mean to be like harping on it, but that's what stands out to me. Watch. And, and when I. That's what is the most compelling thing about these two series to me. Well, if Clip Clippers in Denver is actually pretty good, but about this one specifically is like, really, bro?

[Howard Beck]

If we knew Raja, just to hypothetically or just to play devil's advocate, because there were, there were rumblings of this in both cases. So let's just take it to the extreme though. Let's say for sake of argument, both locker rooms had completely tuned out their head coaches. I'm not saying that's exactly what happened. I think there was again rumblings in that direction. Let's just assume though that one through 15, no one's listening to Michael Malone, no one's listening to Taylor Jenkins. Do you still feel the same way about having them in place right now?

[Raja Bell]

I do, I do. And here's why. Here's why? Because you're not listening to the motherfucker that's coaching you for four days. That's not happening. When the Bullets start flying, nobody's listening.

[Larry Murdoch]

You didn't listen to the substitute teacher.

[Raja Bell]

No one's listening to him. So there is a percentage.

[Larry Murdoch]

Hold up.

[Raja Bell]

Let me finish, Yo. There is a percent chance, though, that, like, even if we've tuned out the head, right, if we've tuned him out under normal circumstances, the doldrums of an NBA season, this is getting long. We get it. But when the Bullets start flying and it gets real competitive and everything gets amped up, there is a percent chance that we will listen to that because we've been in there with you before. We've seen dude in these circumstances before. And so that's all I'm saying to you, Howard, like, fair. If you're trying to sell me as to the moves being made to put your team in the best situation for the playoffs, then you've lost me. If you give me some other reason, we can have the conversation, but, like, that's not true.

[Howard Beck]

Fair. Good.

[Larry Murdoch]

Shit.

[Raja Bell]

Sorry. Yeah, thanks, man.

[Larry Murdoch]

Good. I agree. I was just. I just thought it was just nuts just to, like, have, like, just. I mean, because you're essentially saying, like, you're putting an assistant coach in a week before the season in place to go against two of the. And I know, like, we didn't know at the time when they did it how the standings were going to shake out, but, like, you put two assistant coaches going up against Coach Daggs and Ty Lu, two of the best minds that we have in the league, they have no chance. Like, they don't.

[Howard Beck]

Well, at least. At least Adelman had been around the NBA for a long time. Like, Isolo just got here.

[Raja Bell]

Yeah, they might.

[Larry Murdoch]

For sure.

[Raja Bell]

They might. They might. Figure. Look, I'm not. I'm not sitting here telling you definitively that either one of these series is over. Although, like, you know, the. The. It is in Memphis. Right. But. But I want to give those. Those coaches some credit. Like, they might be doing an okay job. I'm still sitting here telling you that the other two guys that have been. They would be doing a better job.

[Larry Murdoch]

Yeah. I mean, and you could also make the argument in the Clippers Nuggets that clippers should be up 30 in this series. Right? Like, even from a standpoint, like, last night was. Was. Was the blowout. But the Clippers have had, by and large, had control of this series all of, like, maybe five minutes of the series, as A fluke. Shit happens. So we'll see what happens tomorrow. Let's look at the slate for tonight's games really quickly. There's some ramifications. I'll go Pacers, Bucks, don't really care about Clippers or don't really care about Celtics magic. No one cares about that one. But Bucs, Pacers, Howard has a lot of ramifications, right? You know, Bucs come back home, they're down oh two. I'd imagine they win this game just because they're a veteran team with pride. But if they don't, what does this say about their off season and what's to come?

[Howard Beck]

I don't know this, the stats in front of me, but like one of my favorite, just amusing little, like, I don't know, like the, the pet phrases of the post season, right. As the team goes down 20 on the road. Ah, it's a long series. They just held serve. These things are lies, people. I just need you to know.

[Larry Murdoch]

Howard's in his bag, raw.

[Howard Beck]

It's not a long series. It's best of seven. That doesn't mean it's necessarily going seven. So when you're down 2 0, I don't know the percentages in front of me, but like, the team down 2 0, like, loses the series, like 75, 79 or something of the time. So it's not a long series. They didn't just hold serve. If you want to win a series and you're the team that's on the road for the first two games, you're supposed to steal one of those two games, else you're probably toast. So they're in trouble, and not just by the ledger, but by watching the games. Like, the Pacers are just a better, deeper, more talented, more athletic team that can beat you more ways. And Giannis is doing all the Giannis things and he's been great, but, like the drop off from him, like, Dame came back like, you know, granted, they missed Dame Game one, game two, Dame is there, but Dame hadn't played in a month and, and looked like he hadn't played in a month. But even Dame at full strength, like, I think we've seen enough to know, like Damon Giannis, this thing is not saving that franchise. And then you're down to Bobby Portis and Kyle Kuzma and just in the drop off gets even worse after that. All respect to Brook Lopez, but he's up there. Yeah, I think we all know where this is going, guys. They're gonna lose this series.

[Larry Murdoch]

Is that a Prediction.

[Howard Beck]

It's just a reality.

[Larry Murdoch]

I mean, okay, it's not.

[Howard Beck]

All right, I just said 2, you're down 2, 0, like 70 something percent. You're gonna lose. Unless something crazy happens, injuries or otherwise. Yeah. The Bucks are losing this series and the Bucks are going to have, like, you talk about the soul searching thing. This is like this. These are the stakes of NBA playoffs in the modern era. When you have a star of Giannis's caliber and you flame out too many years in a row, then you have all the questions and the question is going to be, does Giannis want out? Is this the time he's hinted in the past at the possibility of chasing championships elsewhere? He's been a loyal soldier. He's been, you know, loyal to Milwaukee. I want to, I want to be here for, for my entire career. Dame Lillard said the same thing for years in Portland until he didn't.

[Larry Murdoch]

Hey, Howard, Larry June once said, in order to grow, you gotta let go.

[Howard Beck]

Giannis is letting go of Milwaukee. Is that what you're saying?

[Larry Murdoch]

I just said what Larry June said because I've been listening to him this morning, but it seemed poignant for this discussion.

[Howard Beck]

That's very poignant. I agree.

[Larry Murdoch]

Yeah. Clutch Plays is brought to you by Amazon Business. And as a part of Clutch Plays, we're going to talk about a play. I don't know if it's clutch or not. We're going to just. We're going to talk about it. It was an action that happened in the game. Anthony Edwards got fined $50,000 for talking about yelling into the stands. Can I say this on this Spotify, he just said that his you feel me is bigger than the other persons. You feel me?

[Howard Beck]

And then he grabbed the same area.

[Larry Murdoch]

And then he grabbed the you feel me? And it was fine by the league. $50,000. Me and Howard talked about this in a pre, pre pod meeting. I was wondering, just like, this type of shit happens all the time, right? But at the advent of social media and like viral clips like this got blown out, what were your thoughts on this? Fine. And like, what does it say about, like, the modern NBA and where we are? Because I know back in your day, and sure as hell, back in Howard's day, Wilder shit was set on the court and two fans and nothing happened because we didn't see it.

[Raja Bell]

Yeah, I mean, I don't. I don't know, man. How much did he get fined for that?

[Larry Murdoch]

50 GS.

[Raja Bell]

Yeah, I mean, he's like, whatever, 50. He's like 50 grand.

[Howard Beck]

Okay, Roger you know how much he's been fined total for the season? Because now it's, now it's not just, oh, just.

[Raja Bell]

Well, yeah, now I don't know, but it's. Yeah. How much? What is it?

[Howard Beck]

$370,000.

[Raja Bell]

Yeah, that's not like. Yeah, that, that changes it a little.

[Howard Beck]

As I saw online, somebody else pointed this out. That's like more than some WNBA players make in a season. That's crazy. It's, it's a lot more than some.

[Larry Murdoch]

That's like half the team. Yeah, WNBA team. Yeah.

[Howard Beck]

So it like 50. 50K. And even the 370, considering what he makes, might be, you know, easy to shrug off, but it's what that collective figure indicates about him.

[Larry Murdoch]

I mean, what say, though, about what's he made?

[Raja Bell]

What's he, what's he make?

[Larry Murdoch]

Like, what does he make today? What is, what is the salary? Let me see.

[Howard Beck]

Jillian.

[Larry Murdoch]

Anthony Edwards, because He just signed a 2 Edwards salary or pocket watching 42 million and like, he got a face of Adidas. He's fine. He's fine.

[Raja Bell]

Trust me.

[Larry Murdoch]

He ain't missing no meals.

[Raja Bell]

Still. He's still saying, whatever. He ain't tripping off of that. Like, we are not. Do I think that's responsible? No, but he's still saying, yeah, I'm not tripping off of that. Whatever.

[Larry Murdoch]

That's the Adidas. But he got the Sprite commercial. Every time I turn on the tv, he's on there.

[Raja Bell]

But I, I would say, like, yeah, things are said back and forth. Things have been said back and forth between, you know, fans and players. Typically, players don't cross the line of, like, vulgarity and stuff like that unless it's already been crossed by a fan or it's just belligerent and, and, and berating from a fan. Right? Like, if we. Enough is enough. And this isn't an excuse for what he said, by the way. Like, I'm not trying to be making an excuse for him. I'm just trying to describe it, right? Like, if I'm out there hooping and you're just talking shit to me, I'm going to talk shit back. Like, maybe, but it's not going to rise to the level of me, you know, saying stuff like that. Unless you're, unless you're already in that space or some of the stuff coming out of your mouth is just so wild and obnoxious and, or it just is incessant and it won't stop and, and so, you know, I don't know what the interaction was with the fan. I, I, I don't really give a shit. I would say the same thing I say to my damn kids. I just had this conversation in the car this morning with my son Ty. It's like, look, man, you guys live in a pretty cool world, man. Like, as, as high school athletes, you're getting paid. Like, as college athletes, you guys are making millions. Like, with that comes some really cool opportunities that I didn't get to partake in as a high school or college kid. But what I did get to do was live a childlike, like, adolescent life that was free from being judged by everyone else because it wasn't streamed or caught on flip phones or camera phones or posted on the Internet for everyone to see. So, you know, with your, this, this platform and all of these, like, good opportunities, come some responsibility and come some things that, that you got to navigate that I did not have to navigate. And for Ant, it would be like, yo, bro, you know, hey, Ant is.

[Larry Murdoch]

Wild right now, bro.

[Raja Bell]

Yeah, but you know that's caught. You know it's caught. You know it's caught because you see.

[Larry Murdoch]

Everywhere ant goes, There's 12 cameras, camera phones that are like, he knew what he was doing.

[Raja Bell]

Look, back then, people were just heckling you to heckle you, like to get the back and forth in some instances, because they enjoyed that, right? Like, they got to go home and say, got him. Hey, man, I had Roger Bell in there talking about, hey, bro, I was in his ass tonight. Like, they got to do that now. That person is already filming. They're, they're filming as they heckle you to just see what you're gonna do and see if they can catch you in the moment. And I'm not above that moment. Like, I'm sitting here telling you as, as the 23 to 30 some year old that played, like, in the heat.

[Larry Murdoch]

Of, as the evolved human, I would.

[Raja Bell]

Have turned around and said some wild shit and been caught all over everything. But, but like, you gotta, you, you gotta, you gotta understand, you gotta understand what you're dealing with, man. And he might not care. And if he doesn't care, like, well, who am I to tell him to? But, like, you gotta know that.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah. I mean, the thing with Anthony Edwards is. And like, this one, like, it was good nature. No, it was, but it was like, good natured.

[Raja Bell]

Right?

[Howard Beck]

Like, you see the look on his face, like he's having fun. Like, this isn't one of those, like, we've had, you know, whether it was Russell Westbrook in Utah and some other Incidents where it's been like fan versus player and it's been like super aggressive and over the line and nasty and people saying shit they should never actually say. Like, that's a different category. There's no threat going on here. There's, there's. This is not a fight. Anti was just having fun. They're just talking shit to each other. Which in a different era, in an era before cell phones with, with, you know, video capability where everything can get blasted out in the world to the world immediately, it's fine. There's. There's, like, there was no danger here. There's nothing, like, there's nothing for us to worry about. The hand wringing, if there is any from the league and from others will be more about. Is this appropriate? Is this appropriate as a role model? We use that term loosely, but like, kids are watching, kids are listening. I mean, look, we drop a lot of F bombs on this show. We're not fucking shy about it. I'm not sure I want players to have to be either. I have advocated in the past and have said, I have mocked some of the leagues, you know, over policing of language at the, at the, you know, in press conferences and stuff. But you're sitting there in front of 20,000 people and as you're yelling back and forth with this fan and grabbing your junk and talking about the size of your junk and everything, like, at some point, like, like the rules of decorum need to apply probably. And I've got a lot.

[Larry Murdoch]

He was follow the rules of decorum around Barack Obama, bro. You think he's going to give a fuck about what the dude said? He's gonna care about somebody courtside.

[Howard Beck]

Here. Here's the, here's the bigger picture. If I'm gonna just zoom out for a second. He also got 17 texts this season and got suspended for the last game of the season because he went over the limit of text. And when I that mentioned that 370, 000 figure that includes, I think, all the tech fines that go with.

[Larry Murdoch]

And a game check. If he, if he. Yeah, I don't know if it was in the fines. We probably got a game check. Well, I got a question for you and. And Raja as well. And. And I want to play. I don't know if this is a devil's advocate, but I'm going to play this role there. There is definitely going to be somebody that listens to this podcast and it's like, oh, you guys is over here laughing about Ant and what he did, but y'all Ain't laughing about Ja. Y'all not laughing about all these other people that are doing stuff. What, what is the line here? I'll start with Raja. What is the line here where we tell like Ant, like he. Because there is a maturity thing in this as well, right? Just like there was with John. I said that with other people. Like, how do we talk about that part too as well?

[Raja Bell]

Well, number one, I, I've, I've already said that Ant needs to continue to mature. And, and I think I've said this year that I've seen some maturity out of his game and stuff like that. But I've said in the past that, that it's, it, the, the antics are immature, right? Like I've said that. I think, you know, the difference with Ant for me is like, but he, but there are a lot of them I've talked about like Luca having something to say every single time there's a.

[Larry Murdoch]

Call that he joined like series as well.

[Raja Bell]

It's obnoxious. He needs to mature. Like Nicola Jokic is the best player on the planet. And, and, and, and he's obnoxious with it. Like, like there's, there's some of that too. So like, if I come off like I'm not giving them the same amount of grief as I give Ja, it would be because Ja, and what he has been reported to be involved with is very, very dangerous. Like, it's dangerous in a way that telling someone your junk is bigger than theirs isn't. Right? Like you're pointing lasers at people's heads. Like allegedly. Like you're the people that you're with. Like, those are dangerous things. Like there is a, there's a young man that claims that he was at your house and you all beat someone, beat the shit out of him. Because like, these are, these are physical, dangerous assaults.

[Larry Murdoch]

Like that case was dropped, by the way. Just, just to make sure.

[Raja Bell]

I said claiming, but I, I said claiming, right? Like you're brandishing weapons on live streams and stuff like that. Like guns are a huge issue in, in, in, in America. In the world. In America, certainly. And, and people are, and kids are looking up to you and they're buying your sneakers and stuff. I find that to be different than you having a self control issue on the court and getting technical fouls. That's me personally. If people want to debate that, that's fine, we can do that. But I think that they're two separate. They're two while both being immature on some level. Two different things. We're talking about Yeah, I think we.

[Howard Beck]

Want to see young players in this league. You understand, the guys come in and they're often like 19 years old, 20 years old. They're not fully evolved. None of us were at that age. And so I always say, like, we got to give players a lot of grace. They're growing up literally in front of our eyes with this searing spotlight, cameras around them all the time, especially now in today's environment with social media and everything else. So, like, give guys a chance to evolve and we're gonna see guys come in sometimes not fully prepared to deal with all the pressures and all the fame and all the wealth and all the publicity. That's fine. But you do have to show some ability to evolve along the way. Even if Raja didn't want to evolve, today's young players do need to. So. So I think, I think that if, if we're gonna put those two in the same sentence, Anthony Edwards and John Morant, I think it's in. You know, both these guys came into the league, you know, in the same era, both really young, both super talented, both could be all time greats if they, if they want to be, if they are committed enough to it and could be faces of the league and have both been projected to be and talked about as the next faces of the league when LeBron and Steph and Durant are gone. But you have to do the other necessary things. It's not enough just to be an incredible dunker and to put up highlight reels. You have to win, you have to lead, you have to, you have to mature. And so it's fair to judge them both through that prism. Again, very different things. And Raja said it really well, why Jai and at the Edwards are different in this regard because of what's happened a lot off the court. But look, I'll admit this, this last piece, that, that for me, like, I have a contradiction in my own head. I want guys to be themselves. Like, I want the personality to come through. Like, part of what Anthony Edwards, the appeal of him is that there's a little bit of this kind of mischievousness and it's a lack of maturity at times, but he's kind of fun and he's just himself. And I want guys to be themselves. But, like, there's still a line and when you cross that line repeatedly, you get fined $370,000 over the course of a season. And at some point between the text and the profanity and the gestures and getting into with fans, like, you have to reel in some of that to show us that you are more focused on the game and on winning and to show that you are worthy of that pedestal of being a face of the league.

[Raja Bell]

Look, I agree. I'm sorry, let me just add, Howard. I want people to be themselves, too. I agree with you 100%. But this is life, right? Like, this is life. You aren't going to be or you're going to be the same person. Whether you're at this beachside bar seven shots deep in Dominican Republic, or if you're at a gala raising money for any worthy cause, you're the same person. You're going to have the same personality. We want you to be who you are, but you're not going to act the same in both places. Right, Right. Like, you're going to be you, but like you, you're not going to act the same in both places because it's not appropriate to do so. And that's what we're talking about.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah. Well said.

[Larry Murdoch]

Let me make sure I get this right. A last second three pointer. That's the kind of play that defines winners. And when it comes to business, Amazon Business is your clutch performer with fast access to essential supplies and flexible purchasing options. They are there when you need them the most, so you can tackle unexpected demands and keep your business in the game. Visit business.Amazon.com to learn more. And I present Cliff Augustine to the program once again for our motherfucking mailbag. Hello, Cliff.

[Cliff Augustine]

Good afternoon, fellas. Man, what's going on? First of all, I want to give a shout out to the Philadelphia Eagles for drafting the best linebacker in the draft of 32. So go birds. You already know what it is. Oh, yeah. Shout out to Logan's now. Las Vegas Raiders, they drafted my cousin, Ashton Genti. You know what I'm saying?

[Larry Murdoch]

Is that really your cousin?

[Cliff Augustine]

That's not my cousin. Any Haitian professional athlete, that's my cousin.

[Larry Murdoch]

Respect, respect, respect.

[Cliff Augustine]

All right, let's get to this.

[Larry Murdoch]

I was really about to go like, yo, gotta get a signed jersey. Like, I'm about to ask Roger for a signed DIA jersey when he go to Austin. Stop. Yeah, I'm about to ask for one.

[Raja Bell]

Yeah.

[Larry Murdoch]

I've been asking for merch for years and I still ain't got no merch. But I'm about to get a signed jersey.

[Cliff Augustine]

Yeah, I'll send you a link to.

[Raja Bell]

The merch site, dog.

[Cliff Augustine]

Yeah.

[Larry Murdoch]

Wow, bro. This is how I know Roger doesn't with me, bro. Because when we first started the pod, I was like, yo, let me get some merch. He's like, yo, I got you. Send the addies. Good. It's good. And now it's like, I'll give you a link to the merch site.

[Raja Bell]

Well, in fair. In fairness, you were. He ain't have no merch when we started it. So, like, that was like an American heritage merch. And I don't really have my claws on that. They don't give that to me. He does have a merch, though. You could go check it out.

[Larry Murdoch]

Does he have his own merch site?

[Raja Bell]

Yeah, yeah, go check out. Hey, go check out at dkb3 on insta. And. And, like, in his bio, there's a little link to his merch site. Go ahead and get crazy.

[Larry Murdoch]

Get the out of here.

[Cliff Augustine]

Crazy.

[Raja Bell]

Yeah.

[Larry Murdoch]

Oh, wait, hold on. Real quick, real quick, real quick. I just want to say that I saw. I followed Dia, obviously, on Instagram, and I looked at his story, and this is how I know he's an awesome child, because he reposted a video of you clotheslining Kobe and just laughing emojis. And I think the. I don't know what the caption was, but it was something like, if. If. If Diaz dad does something like this, you know, you don't want to with Dia or something like that. But it was hilarious that he had that sense of humor, so respect to him. I'm gonna look up his merch right now.

[Raja Bell]

Appreciate that. Appreciate you.

[Cliff Augustine]

All right, first question. First question is from Rob. Evening, Real ones, Raja. I've just made you the Nuggets gm. You've just been bounced by the Clippers in round one. Yoko says he's happy to stay for life, but what moves are you making? Is it time to cash in on Murray, or are you moving mpj? Jokic needs more help, but it's difficult without sacrificing too much. Great show. Appreciate the response, Rob. Sheffield, England.

[Raja Bell]

Okay, Rob, thanks for the. Thanks for the question, dog. Yeah. MP and for me, I've said this before. I think, like mpj. I like him. Good player. Yeah. That. That I could move. I could move. That I would move. That I would see, you know, obviously try to figure out exactly what I could get for that. But that's a piece. Jamal is an interesting one for me. I. I like. I. I am a Jamal fan. I like Jamal. I like Jamal and Jokic together. I take a call. I don't know that I would be necessarily out there pitching him to people, but I take a call. I would shop mpj.

[Larry Murdoch]

Though personally, I would say the same. I would say the Same. Because I feel like. I feel, to Roger's point, I think that Murray is a more of an institutional piece for this team. Right. That's. That's somebody that. The bread and butter. The partnership between him and Jokic has been great. MPJ has just been way too inconsistent to justify keeping him on long term. And he's your biggest asset to shop, right? A lot of teams and around the league want a guy like him, whether he's inconsistent or not. But if you want to improve your roster, he is the guy to trade. Absolutely.

[Howard Beck]

They're both making a shit ton of money, and Jamal Murray's got a max deal and a bad injury history and has had a really kind of funky last year and a half or so. So the difficulty here is there's not a lot of. There's not a lot of moves you can make. Right. Like, Aaron Gordon would be really marketable, too. But like, you. You need Aaron Gordon. Michael Porter Jr. Of the. Of the core guys left from the championship team is the one who's the most dispensable. But that also means that any team acquiring him knows that, too, and they're not necessarily wanting to give up a lot to get him. I think even Jamal Murray, you might have, like, let's say you put everybody on the table. And by the way, they lose in the first round and it's crisis time. Everybody on the table, nothing's nailed down. And, you know, you don't want to break up this incredible pick and roll combination, but, like, you have to consider everything, and you have to consider whatever gets you the. The talent and depth that you need around Jokic. I'm not sure how much you're getting back for Jamal Murray either, though, because of the contract and the injury history. And as much as we talk about him as being like a co star, he's never been an all star team or an all NBA team. I think the Nuggets are in a really, really tough spot here.

[Larry Murdoch]

Then we didn't even talk about the fact that they don't even have a fucking GM right now. Like, they need to make a decision on that fast considering the summer that they. That. That is approaching right now. Like, figure they. They have a lot to figure out. It's.

[Raja Bell]

No, they got this, bro.

[Larry Murdoch]

It's nuts.

[Raja Bell]

They got this. They're in the best position for everybody right now.

[Larry Murdoch]

Yeah, that's what they did. That's why they did it for, right?

[Cliff Augustine]

Yeah, that's true. And yogurt is year. This is from Amol Sinho. Hi, guys. First of all, shout out to Howard Beck. I learned about you years ago through the three most anticipated words in niche basketball podcasting and enjoy hearing you on all ringer podcasts. You're on now. Now that Memphis is about to get eliminated, I've started thinking of JA trades. First one who says no to JA for kd straight up. Assuming contracts work for Phoenix, it could give them a Runway to start entertaining while they ride out the bill. Contract in Memphis with KD could make some noise next year. Number two, JA for Sabonis. Sabonis could be pretty effective in Memphis with a free safety like JJJ roving around on defense to help him. Kang's going to Kang and just get butts and seats with Ja to fight for 34 wins in attempt seed. Either way, looking forward to hearing your thoughts. Best amul.

[Howard Beck]

Thank you for the kind words, Amal. Appreciate it. I hope we're pronouncing your name correctly.

[Cliff Augustine]

I checked it beforehand so I can make sure he's pronouncing it correct.

[Howard Beck]

All right.

[Larry Murdoch]

Cool word.

[Howard Beck]

Way to go. Way to go, Cliff. That's why. That's why you're the ace producer. So the first one who says no to JA for Katie, straight up, the Grizzlies say no. I mean, Katie's awesome, but Katie's near nearing the end. He's got a year or two left. He's also going to potentially want a contract extension. Their salaries don't match, by the way. Katie's making 51 now, 54 next season. Jaws making 37, going up to 39 next season. So now the Grizzlies have to throw in more stuff. I don't even know how much more complicated this would be because of second apron shit with the Suns and everything. No, I don't. I don't think that's the match. The Kings won.

[Larry Murdoch]

Listen, I could see that happening. I could definitely see that happening. That would be awesome.

[Howard Beck]

Logan, were you and I the ones talking about this yesterday?

[Larry Murdoch]

We were talking about it yesterday.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah, we were just talking about, like which team is the most. Like if. Like if JA or this is before.

[Larry Murdoch]

The question came right, I believe. Right. Or maybe you saw the question. Maybe he saw the question beforehand inside. Okay, not.

[Howard Beck]

Not when we were talking yesterday.

[Larry Murdoch]

But like, that would be awesome. The King, like that. It would be an awesome. Just display of what the circus is. The Kings, they are absolutely opposite of John Moran.

[Howard Beck]

The Kings are absolutely the team that's going to get one of the slightly scuffed up stars that they're going to Say like this is our new savior.

[Larry Murdoch]

Because whether it's Ja, whether it's like lamello, like they are definitely in the mix for all of them.

[Howard Beck]

That for sure. For sure.

[Larry Murdoch]

And they're gonna have Doug Christie coach.

[Howard Beck]

I'm so. I'm. I'm sorry to all my friends in Sacramento, but the thing. But like. So the. His. His proposal was like, for Sabonus. I think if you're getting ja, you want him with Sabonis probably. And also, I don't think Sabonis fits with the Grizzlies that well. And then also like the Grizzlies are left without really anybody to. To, you know, initiate the offense. So.

[Larry Murdoch]

So I would say like, like firing notwithstanding too, like the codes firing. I think the. I think the. The Grizzlies front office is too smart to do a move like that. I don't think they would just do that. I don't think they would even entertain it. But it will be hilarious and the Kings would definitely push for it. Look out for the Kings to make some dumbass decisions in the summertime. Roger, you got any thoughts?

[Raja Bell]

No, no, I'm good. Kings experts, bro.

[Howard Beck]

By the way, by the way, as Logan says that, I just want to make it clear we're basing this on ownership, not necessarily on the new front office or anybody. We're basing this on like the. The owner has not changed. It doesn't matter how many people they fire. The owner is the owner.

[Larry Murdoch]

They have Monty McNair who's really. I thought I could say he had his faults or whatever, but I think he was. He was really solid as a GM and I think he got overrode on a lot of things. He's going to get his job fast and he's going to pop up somewhere else like I do. Trusted money being there.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah.

[Larry Murdoch]

Any more questions, Cliff?

[Cliff Augustine]

Yeah, let's knock out this next one from. This is from Aness. Aness. What's up real ones. There's been a lot of outcry on Twitter about the Rockets physicality with the Warriors. I was curious what was your guys thoughts about the way that they are playing the Warriors? Isn't one of the main comp or complaints about this error is that the league is too soft. So why is this a problem? Your only Idahoan Cavs fan, Aness.

[Larry Murdoch]

Oh, okay. Shout out to Idaho. I will say this, man. I think it's physical both ways and I don't think that's a hot take. I think the warriors have definitely been complaining more but like I just. Before I got on this podcast, I just saw a montage of Draymond Green literally throwing people around. Like, he's throwing out my time in the first, like, 12 minutes of the game. He's out here throwing, like, Amin Thompson around, throwing Dylan Brooks, throwing all these people around. And then they go back and say, well, it's too physical. I will say, like, I think it's been gone. It's a physical series and a left. Reps are really letting him play. The warriors are absolutely affected by it, but they are playing right into Madoka's hands, in the Rockets hands by complaining. Because I'm going to tell you one thing, and I've been there. I've been through all the games. This series up in Houston, Ma is not letting up. All the complaints are just going to say, Ma is going to make Ma say, do that shit even more. Because it's like, also, it's the playoffs, man. This is what it is, dude. Jesus. It's not too. It's the right type of physicality. Right? Like, that's what I think. See a shit out of, like, they're supposed to do.

[Raja Bell]

Yeah. Listen, Draymond. Draymond's the dude that just takes the philosophy of, I'm just. If I just keep doing it, they'll stop calling it, right? I'm just going to keep doing it. Some of his, like, playthrough, like, some of his, like, you know, like, he gets tied up, and the next thing you know, he's, like, shooting a jab in somebody's face. You're like, how. How did that level of contact promote, like, prompt you to, like, jab someone in the face?

[Larry Murdoch]

Bro, did you see the Draymond flop Was awesome.

[Raja Bell]

When he walked to the one to the baseline, into the.

[Larry Murdoch]

Yeah, when he. When Jalen Green gave him a little nudge to the face, but, like, he. He did the delay. It was phenomenal.

[Raja Bell]

Phenomenal. Phenomenal. Look, the physicality is the appropriate level of physicality. A. Because you're right, Logan, it is the playoffs. And I've told you that, like, earlier in the pod, that my favorite series is the Knicks in Detroit. It's been pretty decent basketball back and forth. The games have been compelling, but, like, the physicality is a part of it. For me, I would just add that it has to be like that. When you try to play Golden State in a tuxedo, like, that's their game. You don't want to try to play them in the game that they are the best at. You want to drag them into the mud. You want to get them in a phone booth and. And just, you know, just tussle, right? Like, that's what you're trying to do. The reason sometimes it looks crazy is because it's Steph and his size and his freedom of movement. Everyone's just so used to letting. Watching people, like, he runs around. So when you start.

[Larry Murdoch]

You see how they're playing him on them screens right now, dude, they're literally just like, fucking bossing him.

[Raja Bell]

Like, they're just boxing him in, just.

[Larry Murdoch]

Trying to squeeze him to death, bro.

[Raja Bell]

Yeah, and I, and I, I'm here for it, like. And obviously I'm a huge Steph fan and Steph is going to continue to work and figure it out, but no one's had an answer for Steph for a decade. I'm here for, like, let's try something. Let's get physical. Let's put. Huh.

[Larry Murdoch]

If you look at the. And Howard's just on the phone right now, just literally on the phone. But like, Razu. Like, this is. If you look at the roster that the Rockets have and their limitations, this style of play is literally all they have, right? This is how they win. They have to muck up. They can't fucking. They can't play in the half court if you. They have to run and they have to beat the shit out of the Warriors. That's how they win games. They don't have like a, like a. They have a great defense and they don't have a really imaginative offense. This is who they are. This is how they're gonna win.

[Raja Bell]

They are. Yes. You have to be physical. You have to turn people over and get out in transition. And I, like I said at the beginning, when they won, when they lost game one, you know, there's a world in which, like, they're sitting there.

[Larry Murdoch]

Yeah.

[Raja Bell]

Disappointed. We lost, but, but really everyone shaking hands, saying, good job, guys. We didn't win, but good shit, good shit. This is going to take a toll. Good shit. Keep, keep plugging, keep, keep banging and keep chopping. It's going to be fine.

[Larry Murdoch]

And that's where they got ice bags and fucking raps that I saw in Houston yesterday or two days ago was astounding. Like, Howard, we said this pre, pre playoffs, like, whoever gets through this series, whoever plays Houston, they can beat Houston, but they're going to get their ass kicked. Like, that's just the reality of the situation. Like, they're going to be that whoever plays Houston in the next round, they're going to feel it and it's going to affect him in the next round if they get through. And it's not even a guarantee if they get through. It's a one one series now.

[Howard Beck]

The Rockets are really physical. They're old school. It's what makes them who they are. It's why they've succeeded this season. It's not changing anytime soon. No, it hasn't been over the line. We talked about it earlier. I think a lot of this is just stemming from the Amen Thompson, Jimmy Butler thing, which we've all agreed was just shit that happened. I don't think there's anything over the line. I love what the Rockets do. I love what he may has done with that team. And no, I would. I do not. I do not envy whoever they're facing in the next round.

[Larry Murdoch]

You know what I like, though? They got some swag to Rockets. I talked to Dylan Brooks the other day and he said he called the oh, Howard's got a roll. He has a. He has to call. He has a call with, you know, important people. It's usually Roger that wraps this shit up, but it's me anyway.

[Raja Bell]

Way to go, Howard. I got to get out of here, too, bro.

[Larry Murdoch]

He called the Warriors a stepping stone, which was so gangster. He said, yeah, they're a stepping stone. They're a good team, but they're a stepping stone to where we wanted go. I'm like, damn, bro. Someone swag respect. And so Howard is gone. Roger's still here. But that has been another edition of Real Ones. Keep that in. Keep that in. Roger ain't even bold enough to do that yet. But we will see you guys on Tuesday via Rod. Talk to y'all soon. Real was mailbag gmail.com baby. Talk to y'all soon. Ah, all this shit's my must be 21 years and older and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 and older in present in D.C. gambling problem. Call 1-800-Gambler or visit rghelp.com call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org backslash chatincenetic or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland, hope is here. Visit gamblinghelpma.org or call 1-800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text Hopeny in New York.