Knicks Choke Away Game 1. Plus, Has SGA’s Foul-Drawing Reached Harden Territory? | Group Chat

Summary

The Ringer NBA Show: Episode Summary

Episode Title: Knicks Choke Away Game 1. Plus, Has SGA’s Foul-Drawing Reached Harden Territory? | Group Chat
Release Date: May 22, 2025
Hosts: Justin Barrier, Rob Mahoney, Wozni Lambre

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1. Introduction

In this episode of Group Chat, Justin Barrier, Rob Mahoney, and Wozni Lambre delve into an electrifying NBA playoff clash between the New York Knicks and the Indiana Pacers. They dissect the game's pivotal moments, standout performances, and strategic maneuvers that defined Game 1. Additionally, the hosts explore whether Shai Gilgeous-Alexander’s (SGA) foul-drawing tactics have evolved to resemble those of James Harden.

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2. Game Recap

a. Regulation and Pacers' Comeback

The hosts express their astonishment at the Pacers' unprecedented comeback. Rob Mahoney emphasizes the historic nature of the Pacers' resurgence, stating, “We are seeing in real time the greatest comeback run of any playoff team that has ever, ever been in the postseason at all. Period.” (03:00) This remarkable turnaround saw the Pacers outscore the Knicks 23 points in the final 3 minutes and 14 seconds of regulation—the most in playoff history since 1997.

b. Key Performances: Aaron Nesmith and Tyrese Halliburton

Aaron Nesmith's explosive performance is highlighted as a critical factor in the Pacers' victory. His ability to score under pressure was likened to NBA legends: “Tyrese Halliburton is like Miyagi and Nesmith is like Dwayne Wade.” (01:53) Additionally, Tyrese Halliburton's clutch plays, particularly his decisive shots, earned praise. Justin Barrier remarks, “He made like four threes in the last three minutes.” (13:00)

Rob Mahoney adds, “Halliburton is better currently than Trey has ever been at any point in his career.” (09:26), underscoring Halliburton's pivotal role in the Pacers' strategy and success.

c. Knicks' Challenges: Free Throws and Brunson's Foul Trouble

The Knicks faced significant challenges, notably their struggle from the free-throw line and Jalen Brunson's foul trouble. Big Wozni Lambre points out, “Aaron Nesmith went 8 of 9 from 3.” (03:56), which was instrumental in the Pacers' comeback. Moreover, Brunson's fatigue and inability to make critical free throws contributed to the Knicks' collapse. Justin Barrier observes, “Brunson was bailed out from several near turnovers in addition to some actual turnovers.” (10:27)

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3. Analysis of the Teams

a. Pacers' Strategy and Organized Chaos

Rob Mahoney discusses the Pacers' dynamic and fluid offensive style, describing it as “organized chaos.” (04:24) Their free-flowing, movement-oriented offense allows players to create opportunities without relying on set plays. This adaptability was crucial in their ability to seize control during the game's closing moments.

b. Knicks' Consistency and Defensive Issues

The Knicks' tendency to collapse under pressure was a focal point of the discussion. Justin Barrier notes, “They let it slip away, then Halliburton thought he ended it, but he didn't really.” (02:14) The inconsistency in maintaining leads, especially in high-stakes moments, raises concerns about their postseason resilience.

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4. Player Insights

a. Tyrese Halliburton's Performance and Persona

Tyrese Halliburton's performance was lauded not only for his on-court achievements but also for his charismatic presence. Justin Barrier describes him as, “a wrestling heel” (08:35), highlighting his ability to entertain and engage the audience while delivering crucial plays. Halliburton's self-awareness and showmanship added an intriguing layer to his gameplay.

b. Jalen Brunson's Struggles

Jalen Brunson, typically known for his poise and effective playmaking, faltered under the Pacers' defensive pressure. Rob Mahoney states, “I am flummoxed by how badly Brunson played and how badly he set them up for those critical moments.” (12:00) Brunson's inability to navigate through Fouls and turnovers was a significant factor in the Knicks' loss.

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5. Series Outlook

a. Adjustments for Game 2

The hosts discuss potential adjustments the Knicks might need to implement in Game 2 to counter the Pacers' strengths:

• Defensive Strategies: Enhancing perimeter defense to limit Nesmith's three-point shooting.
• Managing Brunson's Minutes: Reducing Brunson's fatigue by managing his playing time more effectively to prevent foul trouble.

Rob Mahoney suggests, “You need a response other than just keeping Cat and drop and letting him be basically feast.” (35:01), indicating a need for a more robust defensive approach.

b. Predictions and Takeaways

Rob Mahoney predicts a “pretty chaotic series” (27:16), emphasizing that both teams are capable and the outcome remains uncertain. The Pacers' ability to adapt and the Knicks' need to address their defensive lapses will be critical factors moving forward.

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6. SGA’s Foul-Drawing Discussion

a. Comparison to Harden

The episode shifts focus to Shai Gilgeous-Alexander's (SGA) foul-drawing prowess, comparing it to James Harden's established reputation. Big Wozni Lambre critiques the inconsistency in officiating, stating, “Level contact does not seem consistent.” (39:07), highlighting perceived discrepancies in how fouls are called on SGA versus other star players like Julius Randle.

Justin Barrier analyzes SGA's foul-drawing techniques, noting, “It's going to keep happening.” (44:04), suggesting that while his methods may border on unethical, they are effective and have elevated his game to a level comparable to Harden's.

b. Impact on the Game and Perceptions

The hosts discuss the broader implications of SGA's foul-drawing on perceptions of his gameplay. Rob Mahoney acknowledges, “They are getting hit too.” (45:33), indicating that opponents are also suffering from aggressive defensive tactics, but SGA benefits disproportionately from the resulting free throws.

Justin Barrier adds, “He was backpedaling as if he was never used to it before.” (45:41), emphasizing the adaptability and resilience SGA demonstrates under pressure.

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7. Conclusion

Group Chat wraps up with reflections on the intense Game 1 performance, the strategic depth of both teams, and the evolving narrative around SGA's foul-drawing. The hosts express anticipation for Game 2, underscoring the high stakes and the potential for even more dramatic developments in the series.

Rob Mahoney concludes, “This is going to be a pretty chaotic series.” (27:16), leaving listeners eager for the unfolding drama in the NBA playoffs.

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Notable Quotes:

• Rob Mahoney: “We are seeing in real time the greatest comeback run of any playoff team that has ever, ever been in the postseason at all. Period.” (03:00)

• Justin Barrier: “Halliburton is better currently than Trey has ever been at any point in his career.” (09:26)

• Big Wozni Lambre: “It's jarring to see it. Dude, I get it there of different body makeup, different kind of games.” (39:07)

• Rob Mahoney: “This is going to be a pretty chaotic series.” (27:16)

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This comprehensive analysis provides listeners with in-depth insights into Game 1 dynamics, player performances, and strategic considerations for the ongoing playoff series between the Knicks and Pacers. Additionally, the discussion on SGA's foul-drawing techniques offers a nuanced look at evolving defensive strategies in the NBA.

Transcript

[Justin Barrier]

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[Rob Mahoney]

Hello and.

[Justin Barrier]

Welcome to Group Chat. I am Justin Barrier and joining me Indiana's Rob Mahoney, New York's Big Woz. We just watched one of the most insane fucking playoff games I think I've seen in a very long time. I feel like we need to have a cigarette, Rob, before we start this podcast.

[Rob Mahoney]

Seriously, what the fuck? I mean, even by Pacer standards that one was completely ridiculous.

[Big Woz]

Absolutely insane. Too many ridiculous moments to even name.

[Rob Mahoney]

I just like how in regulation the Pacers are a good balanced team and then crunch time comes and Aaron Neesmith is Steph and Tyrese Halliburton is Reggie Miller and like Andrew Nemhardt is Dwayne Wade and Obi Toppin is fucking Shaq. Like these guys just turn into absolute killers for some reason. Final 3 ish minutes of regulation and then whatever else they got to play.

[Justin Barrier]

Yeah, it really is the Pacers craziness married with the Knicks own craziness, which happens to unfortunately be a lot of collapse and just like losing things down the stretch. That's what happened tonight because it seemed like the Knicks had it in regulation, then they let it slip away, Then Halliburton thought he ended it, but he didn't really. But he definitely got that celebration off. But fortunately they pull it off in the end there just I guess Rob just what a fucking like Gutsy ass performance from the Pacers. A team that, like, didn't slow down when it seemed like the Knicks ran out of gas.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, A gutsy performance in a gutsy playoff run. Like, I think we just need to call it how it is, which is we are seeing in real time the greatest comeback run of any playoff team that has ever, ever been in the postseason at all. Period.

[Justin Barrier]

Like, whoa, greatest.

[Rob Mahoney]

This is three consecutive rounds of basically unprecedented comebacks against different opponents. I don't know what else to call it other than that this is the greatest comeback team we've ever seen.

[Big Woz]

Yeah, tonight was just nuts. And, you know, I did start thinking about Cleveland and the Bucks as things were kind of winding down, but at every second I'm like, all right, this is kind of embarrassing that if you're the Knicks and you kind of cruise through the entire fourth quarter, most of which without your MVP candidate, best player, and you know, to let it get this close, get this tight, all right, you're gonna. Tibbs is gonna have something to coach about, you know, in the two days in between the next game. And I really didn't think they would lose this game until the last free throw was missed in regulation. And Indy gets the ball down too. And I'm like, oh, like they lost. Yeah, they lost this freaking game.

[Justin Barrier]

Yeah. So Tim Reynolds of the AP had this stat. 23 points from the Pacers in the final 3:14 of regulation. That's the most in playoff history dating back to 1997, which is where the play by play era begins. So to Rob's point, yes, definitely historic. Rob, what do you think it is about the Pacers? Is it just that, like they were born in the darkness because they play a more frenetic style and so they're used to things getting all silly like they did, or is it something else going on?

[Rob Mahoney]

I do think there is something to that sort of organized chaos. Right. Like they play such a free flowing, movement oriented offense. It's not like you have to be in a specific spot to hit your shots or be in a on a specific move to hit your shots. They also just have guys who go after everything and you saw that bite them for a minute when all of a sudden they couldn't stop fouling three point shooters when Jalen Brunson was out of the game in the fourth quarter. And it looked like they were basically going to hand the Knicks the win as a result. But that same instinct, that same drive is what lets them go after rebounds. Pull up loose balls, force jump balls, come up with these huge effort plays that you need in addition to Aaron nesmith having a 20 point fourth quarter out of thin air, like just willing the team back into this game. And so the combination of high level streak shotmak plus elite effort plus I will say relative to earlier in the game screwing their heads on straight, which was not the case in the first half, certainly like actually played clean, good basketball. That that's how this stuff happens. But look, if there was a real formula, everyone would be doing it. I think the answer is just they're the Pacers and this is apparently how they live.

[Big Woz]

So they scored 23 points in the last three minutes and 15 seconds or whatever the hell it was. That means The Knicks score 12 in that span. You extrapolate that over a quarter. That's a fantastic offensive quarter by that pace, by the Knicks pace. And they still end up sending this game into overtime and ultimately winning it. I think the Neesmith thing, like, look, the Knicks missed a bunch of big free throws. Og missed one, Brunson missed one, Towns missed one. These are your best guys who you expect to be there and hit clutch free throws. That's cool. But Aaron Neesmith went 8 of 9 from 3. Like, I text you guys, I was like, steph Curry could not have been expected to make these threes, dude, let alone Aaron fucking N. Smith. This is insane what this guy did. Yes, the Knicks had some foibles. I thought they, when they should have been running a clock, they did some Russell Westbrook type all, let's try to score even though we're up, even though the clock is our friend at this point. Those were some mistakes along with the missed free throws. But like, they didn't have these awful turnovers that turned into dunks and all of this stuff. It was just the Pacers were just making insane shot after insane shot. And then the last shot they took in regulation, which Halliburton freaking backs all the way up. Moonshot. The. The.

[Justin Barrier]

The electric slide.

[Rob Mahoney]

Straight up electric slide. Absolutely.

[Big Woz]

The ball damn near hit the ceiling of MSG to where I'm like, when it went that far up, I'm like, oh, okay, the game is actually over. This is crazy. What a heart attack game. Then I see this thing dropping and I'm like, oh my God, just crazy.

[Rob Mahoney]

I had that thought as the ball was bouncing off the rim after the backup to the what Tyrese thought was the three point line. I'm like, I could already hear the talking head bits tomorrow about how this is what's wrong with today's game. He couldn't just go for the two to tie it. He to back it up for three. And then what do you know? He made it anyway. Even though it wasn't too.

[Big Woz]

He took the two to tie.

[Justin Barrier]

He did. I. I don't even think it was conscious so much as that. He's so used to backpedaling to the three. He's found himself in the paint. He's like, I've never been here before.

[Big Woz]

What.

[Justin Barrier]

What am I going to do?

[Rob Mahoney]

First of all, great paint game by Tyrese Halliburton. Some great finishes around the basket. He did it all.

[Justin Barrier]

He's unfortunately good all around. Was. Was the. The choking thing fair or foul? Can we get a read on that?

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm going to say because they won. I think it's. It's good. We. It's going to live on.

[Justin Barrier]

It would have been bad.

[Big Woz]

It's more than fair. I think if they would have lost, this would have ended up almost like a swaggy p. Take the three turnaround and put your arms out.

[Rob Mahoney]

Right.

[Big Woz]

And it like bricks out. But they ended up winning. Reggie Miller's sitting right there courtside calling the game. Like, you know, Spike Lee's into like, come on. Like, I get it. And Halliburton just is kind of a showman. Not even kind of. He just straight up is. He understands the moment. He understands how to create chatter and eyeballs around what it is that he's doing.

[Justin Barrier]

He's a wrestling heel.

[Big Woz]

Yes. And he sees the moment.

[Justin Barrier]

Man, spending too much time with McAfee and going to WWE events, it's really trickling over. In fact, he told Ellie laforce in the walk off interview, like, I had that in the back of my mind. People were asking me to do it. I probably shouldn't have brought it out so soon, but maybe I have to do it again. I have to give him credit. I found that very endearing. Like he is self aware enough that he could laugh at himself in those moments. And that kind of took some of the piss out of it. And they won, which is probably the biggest thing of that.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's a huge part of it. I can't remember the last time we had a heel in the NBA who was also this good. You know, it's one thing to be like a Dylan Brooks type, but to be a superstar level player who's making these kinds of plays and playing the heel like, that's where the regi comp comes up. Right. Like that.

[Justin Barrier]

That's where Trey. It's Trey Young.

[Big Woz]

Yeah.

[Justin Barrier]

And he surpassed him as the best Day Halliburton.

[Rob Mahoney]

Halliburton is better currently than Trey has ever been at any point in his career. And Trey Young's really good. He's been an all star. He's, like, been a really talented and, like, capable player. Very productive player. He's. He doesn't have this. He didn't have this kind of. Not just performance in him, but like, overall team play in him as far as what Halliburton has done on this run.

[Justin Barrier]

Yeah, they just.

[Big Woz]

Man, they just don't panic. And you know, another thing, a buddy of mine over there with the Knicks, he was like, I hate to say it, but the Knicks have been due to lose this kind of game. Yeah, um, they've been coming out on top of these skirmish, fourth quarter craziness, comeback. They've been on the other side of this so many times in this post season. At least three times against Boston. I think it was the I. That was the first game against Detroit where Detroit was up like 13, 14 to something in the fourth, went cold and ended up losing it. They were due for one of these, man. But this is just. This is what the playoffs are supposed to be.

[Rob Mahoney]

Crazy.

[Justin Barrier]

Let's talk about that. Because the first Tyrese moment we got was him in the mic'd up segment where he's like, we gotta dominate the Brunson less minutes. Like he was auditioning for the Hoop Collective or something. My guy is very.

[Rob Mahoney]

Let's be real. Come on.

[Justin Barrier]

He's very plugged into the podcast discourse lingo, I will say that. And unfortunately, it seemed like they were going to lose those pretty badly because in that fourth quarter, Knicks go off on a 14. 0 run after Brunson gets his fifth foul, 17. 6 overall. And you think, oh, this is exactly what you want for the Knicks. Not only overcoming those minutes, but OG Looked great. It was finally those other guys. You got McBride chipping in. You had campaign chipping in, but you weren't getting a lot of OG Bridges stuff going on. Finally, those guys give you what you need supplementary to break through, fortunately the dam fucking went the other way. And then everything broke free. I have to wonder, Rob, if some of the mistakes down the stretch were fatigue, because even though they did go eight men in this game, which is longer of a rotation than Tibbs probably likes to, probably the longest we'll see in this series going forward. But I also felt like the pressure on Brunson started to mount on him, where not only was NE Smith just getting into his shorts, but then they would send a second guy and he almost like, was in disarray before he was making mistakes later in ot.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, I thought Brunson was just out of control down the stretch, which is not something we're used to seeing from him. This is a player who plays with a ton of poise, who has such good, good, like, balance to his game, does not make those sorts of mistakes. And he was bailed out from several near turnovers in addition to some actual turnovers, in addition to just like trying to draw a foul for so long, he would drain half or the entire shot clock and New York wouldn't get a good shot out of any kind of possession. So strange to see after he looked so comfortable in regulation. Like, up until those final three minutes or so, he had everything going for him. It was so easy to get inside. He was playing every defender like a fiddle. No one, NITH included, could do anything to disrupt his rhythm or his shot. And N. Smith did figure it out. I don't. I honestly don't even know what changed. Like, obviously he's pressuring him, but he's been pressuring him throughout this game. Something tilted in that matchup a little bit in Nissan's favor. And maybe it's as simple as during these late game situations. The refs are a little bit less inclined to bail him out with some of those calls, but ultimately I am. I'm flummoxed by how badly Brunson played and how badly he set them up for those critical moments. Because, you know, when he did make those desperation passes across the court, whether it was to Towns or to OG or to Bridges in particular, those guys did not look particularly ready for that moment.

[Big Woz]

Yeah, I mean, I think the mentality kind of changes. Like, is the difference between attacking a guy in the second quarter and attacking a guy in a tight ass fourth quarter possession, right where you feel like you must get points out of this possession rather than, all right, we're going to do whatever comes to us. Like, I think it's just a different proposition. And in Brunson's mind, he's like, I'm going to draw a foul here. That's my most efficient way to get to. Or what. What I feel like is the most efficient way, especially the way this guy's guarded me. I don't. I'm not convinced that Brunson, like, melted down or got tired. I think he was just trying to draw fouls, man. Like, trying to be like, look, man, like, get into the free throw line, winning it there instead of Taking what ultimately are tough shots. Even when Brunson is going, he's taking very tough shots. Like, I, I don't know, I didn't watch that thinking like, oh, he's ruined. I'm like, oh, he's really trying to sell this foul job right here. And you know, he got a couple of them, but there was a couple of times where he didn't. I, I don't know, man. It's hard for like, I, I know it like we're supposed to say the Knicks choked here, but like a guy made eight out of nine threes who's not a freaking three point assassin. Yeah, like that has to matter. He made like four threes in the last three minutes. He misses one of those, just one, and they lose this game.

[Justin Barrier]

Yeah, I think Brunson wore down to a certain extent as I think the Knicks might have to worry about going forward here because those minutes are just going to compound over time. This is actually the worst case scenario going into a game two to lose this game because I think the Pacers are just going to push the pace even more in game two and wear them down even more. But on top of that, it just seemed like in the face of pressure, he kind of didn't know where to go. I wonder if it was something with like his legs too, because it seemed like Towns was hobbling. He is always hobbling on and off. OG seemed like he is hobbling. I don't know what it is, but it's just like something was off there and it felt like whenever they would send two to him.

[Rob Mahoney]

Right.

[Justin Barrier]

Also couldn't see over in a way that like the Pacers offense wasn't going. I think it was also predictability too. Like you kind of know what the Knicks are going to run, especially in high leverage situations to the point where like after they were doubling Brunson, Rob in that fourth quarter, they started doubling Towns just because they knew where it was going next. And so it really kind of underlines the difference of these two teams where it's like Knicks have a very set order of operation. Things are just flowing for the Pacers right now.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, I think it's that difference more than anything. And Choke might feel a little bit strong, although by the margin and the time that was left in the game, I could understand why anyone would read it that way. But this was a kind of implosion by the Knicks and an amazing comeback by the Pacers. And both things can be sort of true, and in this case undeniably true. Like it takes Both sides. It takes Aaron Neesmith having an incendiary night, and it takes a lot of Knicks mistakes to get there. And those mistakes, again, we're not used to seeing from the Knicks in this run. These are the cardiac Knicks, and they might have finally died on the table. Like, you know, you can only give out so many times before. Ultimately, it's just a bridge too far.

[Big Woz]

So here's the thing about today too. The Knicks. I thought Towns looked as comfortable as he looked the entire postseason. I thought whenever somebody who wasn't Neesmith was guarding Brunson, the Pacers looked fucking toast.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Big Woz]

Okay, like, they looked. The Knicks offense looked as comfortable as just relaxed and worry free as it's looked the entire postseason throughout this entire game. You know, the last three minutes notwithstanding. That being said, if the Celtics series should teach us anything, it's like, yeah, that's cool, but you just lost the game that you should have won, okay? And this is how a series that's this freaking close ultimately slips through your fingers, dude. Like, you should have won this game. And like, you know, we said after the first two Boston games, like, well, they looked better than the Knicks the first two games, even though they lost, the Knicks look better than the Pacers, even though they lost. But guess what? That shit don't matter now. They have a game in hand. And boy, there is a lot of pressure on the New York Knicks going into game two, bro. Like, they cannot lose this game, you know? So it's just that. It's just how that quick a series can turn.

[Justin Barrier]

Both teams, despite all the chaos, finished shooting 51% from the floor. Like, the first half in particular was just wild. It seemed like they may have missed a combined two shots between the two.

[Big Woz]

Didn't the Pacers make their first 10 shots or something insane like that?

[Rob Mahoney]

They didn't miss for like almost six straight minutes.

[Justin Barrier]

Yeah, it was unbelievable.

[Rob Mahoney]

Straight up, did not miss a shot.

[Justin Barrier]

So if. If it was the Knicks running out of gas, that would lead credence to that just because it is going to be a shootout. I think from here. I guess the one takeaway you have to like for the Knicks was that Mitchell Robinson was such an impact for them. I honestly thought he should have played more to the point where when they were doing the. The coming out of the first half interview, even the Pacers seem to be relaying to Ali laforce that like, yes, that's what we are most afraid of. Just because he was dominating the boards, I get it. Because he missed his first two free throws. You're always worrying about Haka. Obviously the Knicks struggle from the free throw line overall. And then like, offensively, what are you really getting from him, especially as you're working in campaign? Some, some Deuce McBride minutes overall though, I thought 21 minutes. I would have loved to see him play a little bit more maybe.

[Rob Mahoney]

I, I, I'll say. In the second half, I thought the Pacers did a much better job neutralizing Mitchell Robinson and really did a much better job too with their own rebounding. The Knicks advantages in the first half I thought came from matching Indiana's pace and playing very well up tempo in transition, getting a lot of easy stuff for themselves and then slowing down the Pacers to a degree with Robinson, with Mikhail Bridges, with Cat hitting the offensive glass right. Like they were getting so many second chances that they were able to slow the Pacers down a little bit. Then the second half comes around. Pacers are hitting their own offensive glass right. They're now countering the Knicks transition game. By the end of it, Indiana wins the second chance. Points battle in this game, which New York is just not going to win one of these games so long as that is the case. I know this is a razor tight margin, but like that's something they not only need to win but need to dominate in order to kind of exercise their will on the style of play in the series.

[Justin Barrier]

Can I counter quickly there, please? If you go double big, that means you have to play Thomas Bryant and he sucks.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, this is always a good tell for like the balance of a series is like which team is being forced to play someone they don't want to play. And the Pacers do not want to play Thomas Bryant, but they feel like.

[Big Woz]

They have to don't want to play Campaign.

[Rob Mahoney]

They shouldn't. They should not.

[Big Woz]

The Campaign series, y' all.

[Rob Mahoney]

Good Lord.

[Justin Barrier]

For a stretch of four minutes or whatever that was, he, he was definitely thinking he was Jalen Brunson and like the Pacers fed into that, basically allowing him to do so. But I will say, like, Deuce McBride seems more playable. I would have loved it if it was more like the offense was going more through Bridges or OG earlier on. And that's where we go back to the Bridges criticism, unfortunately. Overall, I thought he played a really good game. He played probably every single minute. I don't remember him ever checking out. But in those moments when Brunson is in foul trouble or he is sitting, There's a time earlier in the game where they sat both Brunson and Towns together. Things were still funneling through Deuce. And it's just like, why can't Bridges do this? Like, I know he hasn't been successful doing this, but like, you gave all these picks away in part because that was the working logic. I would love to see him play more of an on ball role and actually excel at it in the series.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's just not really who he is. Even, even like when, when Mikhail Bridges plays quote, unquote on ball, it's usually on the second side attacking a closeout, like going into the next action in the chain. And so I, I can understand it from that perspective. I think a lot of it honestly comes down to the fact that he's not a very natural passer. Like he doesn't have the read of the floor. And so if you're going to be the primary initiator of the offense, like, you kind of need that stuff. But ultimately this is, this is what is so frustrating about this game for the Knicks. They played, as we have alluded to the vast majority of, an excellent game. Like Jalen Brunson played 90% of an excellent game. Mikhail Bridges, I thought, had a really great first half and a pretty good second half. I was fully ready to come in here and talk about, like to sing OG Anunoby's praises for those. Brunson.

[Big Woz]

Brunson went down, went out with the foul trouble. He scores five quick points, bumps the lead up to seven. They get a cushion. I think immediately after that, Deuce McBride gets filed on a three and it's like, wow. Like, Jesus. Instead of this turning into an indie avalanche, it's like, wait, they're extending the lead. They're putting the game away while Brunson's on the bench. Like, OG was a big part of that.

[Rob Mahoney]

Crazy. And we, I think we saw the full Cat experience, you know, like he had some defensive struggles in this game, clearly and I think will all series, but you'll take those when he's putting up 35 and 10 and he's hitting threes for the first time in two rounds like that. It's a huge deal and it's going to be a huge deal within this matchup, but you got to win this game. Like, you can't let this happen again.

[Big Woz]

I think Indy is going to continue to play a more conventional pick and roll, which is why Cat is finally able to shoot. They're not just automatically switching the pick and roll on him, um, and you know, whatever he's spacing out to 27ft, but like he's a guy who can make that shot. I just. I don't know. I think the Knicks should feel like, all right, we have things that we can go to, we should feel positive about. I think their defense could stand to, like, tighten the fuck up. Like, you know, even Van Gundy mentioned on the broadcast, a few of those switches on Neesmith were soft as hell. It was like, uh, yeah, I guess I'm gonna go get them. We know they're trying to shoot threes, like, yo, make these guys break you down off the dribble like Halliburton did on the last play every single time down the floor for these threes. Right. I. I think their defense will definitely be better, but, you know, it's hard to believe that their offense will be.

[Justin Barrier]

Yeah, and that's why I keep circling back to the fatigue factor, because I think that is in the Knicks. I think they have the right roster in order to play with force defensively. And that's why you go and roster OG and Bridges in order to, like, send those assignments their way. It's. It doesn't really feel like it's in the DNA of the Pacers, but they have so much else to go with offensively where it seems like I. I often think that a series is about problem solving, and it seems like the Pacers have so many more levers to turn. Like, not playing Bryant first and foremost would be. Would be my first one, but it just seems like they're on the fly. Decision making and ability to pivot is much better than what the Knicks have because they play in such a precise, direct way. And Tibbs, if anything has shown that, like, his answer in a lot of these situations is to double down on that. I would be surprised if we get as much campaign indexing. I'd be surprised if Deuce McBride plays more than 15 minutes. He will probably just shorten the rotation. Just hope that he can get more of those guys. But look at what we saw last postseason against those Pacers. They just ran out of bodies that was because of injuries. I wonder if this time, even if those guys are on their feet, they might be dying on their feet because they look, like, hobbled and if not, just, like a little bit less of themselves. As the game goes along, there's definitely.

[Rob Mahoney]

Some of that at play. I think the other thing, too, with Brunson, to give him a little bit of credit, as far as the late game execution piece of this goes, once he hit his fifth foul and he had already at that point gotten one charge, throwing the shoulder into Aaron Neesmith then he's a little hesitant to create the space that he needs to create. And that's how he got his points all game was creating space with his body, like with those bumps that's kind of taken away from him because he doesn't want to foul himself out of the game. And now he's kind of stuck on the perimeter a little bit.

[Big Woz]

The guy dropped 40 points. I don't think the Pacers should be happy about how they should.

[Rob Mahoney]

They should not. They should. Absolutely not.

[Big Woz]

Brunson is fine overall offensive. I just think the Knicks should believe they can guard the Pacers better than this. And I thought they were kind of decently doing it. Um, what you do want to do with the Pacers is force these guys to be great individuals. Um, they like Halliburton again. He's becoming a guy who attacks the paint, but that's what you want to challenge him to do. Make him finish over length in the paint, right? Like force this guy to be shooting nothing but running backwards, you know, fade away three pointers. Like, that's what you want. You want Nembhard to be like, all right, you're going to be Kobe in the freaking mid post and the mid range. Go ahead, Nembhard. Like you. That's what you want the paces to do. I thought that Knicks did a save for the last five minutes. Yeah, I thought they did a good job of forcing the Pacers to play differently than they would ordinary, like ordinarily like to. And then, you know, a guy gets insane. Like, come on, man. Like some of these. He made like a 28 footer. He made a Steph Curry three off the drill.

[Rob Mahoney]

What happened? What do you feeder like, they lost.

[Big Woz]

Like, I don't want to get too panicky about the Knicks. I guess I'm of both minds. I'm just like, man, the Boston series has left me wounded in the sense that like, all right, like the better team is going to pull this out even when they lose games that they. That they should win. Now I'm just like, bruh, you. You trick off a game, well, that's like Joe Matt.

[Rob Mahoney]

This is where I would push back is like, I would say going into this series, I don't see a lot of definitive proof that the Knicks are the better team. I think this is an anything goes, anything can happen kind of series from the start. I think this is a good tone setter for that. Maybe a little more chaotic in the end than we would have expected. But there were huge swings in this game. There were Huge runs. It was tight basically until that Brunson was stretch where the Knicks pulled away and then it looked like they finally had it in their hands and it obviously swung hard back in the other direction. But I think this is going to be a pretty chaotic series. I think this is going to be a pretty even series. And I think the Pacers have earned the benefit of the doubt to say that it's kind of a toss up as far as if they are better than the Knicks or not. These are both really good, really capable teams.

[Big Woz]

No, I'm. I'm not saying that coming in I thought the Knicks were just so much better. I'm just saying in this game they looked like they were better.

[Rob Mahoney]

I would agree with that.

[Big Woz]

And they lost.

[Justin Barrier]

I would say it was particularly poetic that Obi Toppin was the one to hammer the game home for the Pacers. Not only because he missed the dunk earlier on, but also because they basically gave him to the Pacers for free in order to make the moves. I think it was in order to get Hart and DiVincenzo in in that offse. And I would also say it's a little bit poetic that it was not only him who was a factor late in this game, but also it was nice Smith, because honestly, if I've been impressed by anything that the Pacers have done in building this contender basically from the middle is just getting guys into their system who have upside and basically building them up into the marquee players that they've essentially become in back to back Eastern Conference finals. I guess Halliburton would fit that as well. Although they did trade at their time probably their best player in order to get him. It just feels like they've done such a good job just bringing good players into their system and then letting them get better. Reminds me a little bit of when the Clippers traded Chris Paul for just a bunch of guys and all of a sudden they were a playoff team because those guys were just like. They brought more out of them. I assume Rob a lot of that Taliburton just being able to galvanize some of this. But like Nismith looks like a player. He looks like a player any team would want in these sorts of situations.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean some of it's talent identification too. It's. It's good scouting. It's good pro scouting by the Pacers in terms of seeing Aaron Neesmith as a Celtic and saying we don't think that's representative of who this guy is. And I remember one of the things with Them was they had the background that, that Neesmith had played at Vanderbilt, a very motion heavy style that he was really, really well suited to something that was a little bit more parallel to the way that they play. And they thought if we bring him in here and get him attuned to like our circumstances and our principles and we think he can really thrive in that and he has. I just think it's, it's unbelievable to see a win like this. That is not even though he hit the, you know, the game tying shot, buzzer beating shot. The Tyrese Halliburton game. It is Tyrese coming up with crunch time plays. It's Nemhardt, it's N. Smith, it's Rick Carlisle with a crucial challenge to turn over possession at the end of that game.

[Big Woz]

I thought that was a bullshit call.

[Rob Mahoney]

By the way with the one off.

[Big Woz]

Of Brunson punching the guy in the stump. No, not the one.

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, you're talking about the Siakam.

[Big Woz]

The Siakam. That's a foul. That's a foul. He's punching the guy in the stomach, grabbing his jersey then grabs his arm afterwards. Like that's just a foul straight up. But whatever.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, so let's say two crucial challenges, one of which was disagrees with and in obi toppins case, I'm going to, I'm going to go ahead and say it. I don't know this to be true, but I believe it to be true. What has to be the first double clutch crunch time dunk in NBA playoff history.

[Big Woz]

We loved no call and what should.

[Rob Mahoney]

Have been a foul.

[Justin Barrier]

He definitely got filed. Yeah. I mean dating back to the Oladipo Sabonis trade for Paul George. I would have to say that the Pacers on our run of getting young veterans and then building their core basically from that better than any other team in the league. It's a free story idea for any enterprising young reporter out there. Like I guarantee they have done better from the middle than anybody in recent history and that's a credit like nobody else is building like this.

[Rob Mahoney]

Do you, Justin, have pelican shell shock from saying the phrase young veterans. I feel like you're just like seeing Ryan Anderson and Eric Gordon and Drew holidays. Oh my God.

[Justin Barrier]

What's funny is I quite literally after saying the phrase young veterans thought about.

[Rob Mahoney]

The Belkins simply have to. It doesn't always work but it did in this case.

[Big Woz]

Anything else and I think it bears mentioning again. Well, one Rick Carlisle, he's the man doesn't get enough credit for being an absolutely great coach. He's proven it for 2, 20 freaking years now. Like this guy is an excellent coach, excellent playoff coach, dope at what he does. And we gotta give it up to Indy's front office, who the hipsters in our profession never want to give it up to. I guess because they didn't get a bunch of draft picks and lottery picks and all pick protections and blah blah blah. But they're in the Eastern Conference finals two years in a row. I never hear the hipsters slurping their style of team building ever. So I think I'm giving them free ideas now.

[Rob Mahoney]

Plenty of slurping to be had out.

[Big Woz]

There that the Pacers front office deserves credit for not being some Charlotte tank job year after year, you know, some Wizards. Well, I guess the Wizards like tank, they tanked by accident, whatever. But like all of these teams in the doldrums crying about getting jumped in the lottery, like oh, then what did we do with our system and blah blah blah. Just look at the paces, man. They ain't need none of that lottery luck and all that dumb shit. Just smart GMing, bringing good ass players in, bringing hard nosed guys in and building them up, you know, developing guys. I love it.

[Justin Barrier]

I mean we don't have to assign it anymore. Was just wrote.

[Rob Mahoney]

I feel like I just blacked out and was went on a 20 run. I don't know what happened.

[Justin Barrier]

I guess the Knicks also kind of did a similar thing. Where do they even have a drafted player on their team? But it's a higher level. Yeah, yeah. Even Brunson, they signed for his max at the time in order to lure him over from Dallas. So different, different ballpark in terms of money and resources and whatnot. You want control of your financial future.

[Big Woz]

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[Rob Mahoney]

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[Big Woz]

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[Justin Barrier]

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[Big Woz]

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[Justin Barrier]

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[Big Woz]

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[Rob Mahoney]

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[Justin Barrier]

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[Rob Mahoney]

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[Justin Barrier]

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[Big Woz]

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[Justin Barrier]

All right, so next game. Anything you're looking at, Rob, in terms of adjustments for either team?

[Rob Mahoney]

I think for the Knicks, the question is how they want to defend the Pacers pick and roll. Obviously, the Knicks were getting a lot of what they wanted offensively. I thought basically anytime the Pacers put Cat into the action, Tyrese was walking by him to the rim. They were creating good stuff, forcing rotation, forcing a lot of overhelp, getting good shots for everybody else. At some point, that's untenable. And I get from a game one perspective, you come out, you make the Pacers prove it. You make them show that they can build offense that way consistently. And maybe you want to start game two that way just to see if they've got the kind of crazy shot making they had at the outset of this game. But you need a response other than just keeping Cat and drop and letting him be basically feast, like letting him be food for the, for the Pacers guards.

[Big Woz]

Yeah, I think that to me, the adjustments are about the Knicks defense. I wonder what the Pacers do to get Cat off of the three point line. I wonder if they do become a switch heavy team. You know, I, I don't know that they necessarily have the personnel for that.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Big Woz]

In their guard rotation. So that's a tough decision that they have to make. So keeping Carl off the three point line is something they need to do. I think that Knicks need to be smarter about. Yeah, like Tyrese is going to cook Cat on the ball. Like, I mean, that's just kind of how the series is going to go. But off the ball, man, they got to be cleaner about how they're handling the Pacers screening and movement off the ball, that's where they got to be a little bit more focused to me. So, yeah, you got to live with Tyrese if, if Halliburton's gonna drop 35 a series. Hey man. Say man, he's. He's a freaking mvp. He's a champion. He's a, he's a killer. Um, but I think you could live with Tyrese becoming more aggressive offensively looking for a shot that's not how he likes to play. And so I, I think that's what they should be doing. But in terms of the other guys, like one of the points in overtime, Nemart just gets a back door wide open, you know what I mean? Like they gotta clean all of that stuff up. It actually at moments reminded me of game five against Boston where they were just lost in some of the most basic ass actions, right? And then in game six, they just came and cleaned a lot of that stuff up. I think that's where the Knicks need to be looking. Offensively they had a freaking peach of a game and defensively they need to clean it up.

[Rob Mahoney]

You can get a sense of that high wire act though, because I thought like at times Josh Hart and Deuce and McHale and OG were rotating really well around the basket and they were able to stifle some of the Pacers attempts to finish inside when they got there. But sometimes they just as you alluded to us straight up, did not see it, did not recognize it, got caught up on some other action. So it was either like perfect or absolute implosion defensively around the basket.

[Justin Barrier]

I think something's up with Towns and it seemed more pronounced later in the game. There's that one play, I think in overtime where it seemed very clearly he was hobbled. But even if you watch him earlier on in the game, I had this in my copious just, just detailed notes here. He. It seemed like he struggled to accelerate even on closeouts. Like it seemed like he could move around, but actually like going from start to stop quickly was an issue for him. I wonder that's why they were giving so many Halbert in threes early on. He was missing him, so maybe that's why they stayed in it. But they were aggressively in drop for longer than I would expected them to be considering the returns. And so I have to imagine something's up with him. I guess on the flip side he was actually hitting threes, so that's something on the, on the other end. Hit four in this game. He had three in the entire series against Boston.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's crazy.

[Justin Barrier]

He took eight, which was even more than probably had in half the size of Boston.

[Rob Mahoney]

I thought the best of cat in this game was awesome. Almost unstoppable shot making. Like really, really tough stuff that you have to hit to win a series like this. And the fact that he's showing himself capable of that is very promising for the Knicks. The fact that Jalen Brunson is showing himself capable of just putting up a casual 43 in a game like this.

[Big Woz]

Like, oh, he sucked down a stretch.

[Rob Mahoney]

Both things can be true, you know.

[Justin Barrier]

So Halliburton's talking to the media right now and on his choke sign he says, I wasn't like plotting it or anything. If I would have known it was a two, I would not have done it. I might have wasted it. If I do it again, people might say I'm aura farming. I don't plan on using it again. Goddamn Gen Z Hoopers. I don't know how much I could do with this. All right, well, if you were offended by Jalen Brunson's foul baiting tactics in game one, we have the Western Conference finals for you has just gone wild since the Thunder just plastered the Timberwolves in game one. Why don't we start there because I'm curious to hear was his thoughts on this because you were already kind of kind of piloting some takes in the group chat. Group chat. How did you feel overall about the whistle for. For sga? And just like everything that played out.

[Big Woz]

There, again, I just think it's a stark difference. Like Shay is drawing legitimate contact. This isn't Harden hooking guys his arms and flit like he. The way he's shifting, he's drawing contact. However, when you contrast it with the contact that say a Julius Randle draws every time he's within five feet of the basket, it looks insane. It's jarring to see it. Dude, I get it there of different body makeup, different kind of games. I get the refs have to be like, look, we kind of have to officiate the two players differently. But if you're just watching the game and you watch Julius Randle get mauled, literally like they are just boom, boom, hitting him every time he puts the ball on the deck, on a post up or just a regular drive and then Shay gets what feels like a graze on his shoulder and it's just automatically a foul. Like, I'm sorry, dude, like that just looks crazy. It's not that he's not drawing contact, it's just what gets counted for foul. Level contact does not seem consistent. I don't know. And you know, whatever, it was the same thing in the freaking Denver series. Like Jokic he had to resort to flopping.

[Rob Mahoney]

He was doing it too, for sure.

[Justin Barrier]

He'd never do it otherwise. You're right.

[Big Woz]

But again, if you look up the Hartenstein, Jokic, one on ones where Jokic is backing this dude down and Hartenstein is literally hitting this guy with a billy club for a forearm, like just smacking them every single time. And then you see when Shay, the second this man gets touched on his way to the rim, he's getting a foul again. He's getting touched.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Big Woz]

It's just like there's got to be some level of balance here just to.

[Rob Mahoney]

Calibrate what we're talking about. I think ultimately people are very worked up about like three different possessions in an entire game. It was like there were a couple of plays where Shay kind of took a dive off of, yes. Some marginal contact and then would just hit the floor and get the call in a way that other players in the postseason are not getting. And not only the contrast in terms of Julius, Randall or Ant and the kind of contact those guys are allowed to be bludgeoned with, but that push off forearm for Shay is working overtime. Like he, he gets, he gets to create space through contact, but players do not get to have any contact with him. That is frustrating for an opponent, for an opposing fan base. All those things are true. I also just think like part of the reason Shea had so many free throws is he had 28 drives in that game. According to NBA.com ant had seven. That's kind of it. He had the ball in his hands more than any other player in that game. He took more shots than any other player in that game. Stands to reason he would probably get more free throws. And especially when the team free throw disparity is not really glaring at all. I just have a hard time getting too worked up about it. But there were a couple calls that he got that other players don't. There's no way around that part of it.

[Justin Barrier]

Yeah, it's funny you bring up Jokic because as Shay was just like had the parade going to the line, I was visualizing Jokic like almost like Hodor where he has just, just zombies on top of him and he just like just getting piled on. But yet he can't even sit for two minutes in a game while Shay's just going to the line every five seconds.

[Big Woz]

And, and here's the thing too. We've said this before. OKC deliberately is playing this way. They are the most physical, handsy ass defense in the entire league and they're daring the Refs, they're doing the right thing. They're daring the refs to call fouls on them because they are smaller than everybody they play. They have to be able to get handsy. They have to be able to be physical against their opponents to have a legitimate shot. Or else their guys are skinny and short oftentimes in their matchups, like, that's always happening. So they're leveling the playing field. And you add their level of execution, their speed and quickness and agility. And these guys have great hands. Strong hands. Like, I love watching OKC play defense. However, they're following the shit out of people. There's just like this. It's undeniable if. Let's just say OKC were playing defense the way that they do against Shay Gilgeous Alexander. He began 30 free throws a game. Are you kidding me? Like, they are fouling people. But it's on the refs, man. The onus is on the refs.

[Rob Mahoney]

They are fouling people. I would say every great defense in the history of the league has also fouled the shit out of people. The Bad Boy Pistons, the spurs, the 2004 pistons, the grit and Grind Grizzlies. I disagree with the Jordan Bulls. Show me the team that was not hyper physical. Show them to me.

[Big Woz]

The warriors, their championship run, great defense. Draymond Green fouled you on every play. Everybody else was not following you on every single play.

[Rob Mahoney]

You don't think Andre Aguadala, you don't think Klay Thompson, you don't think those guys are fouled?

[Big Woz]

No. KG on Ubuntu Celtics.

[Justin Barrier]

Oh my God.

[Big Woz]

That motherfucker fouled you on every single.

[Rob Mahoney]

Tony Allen on the Ubuntu Celtics. Kendrick Perkins on the Ubuntu Celtics. Like, there are these guys on every team.

[Big Woz]

But like, man, OKC fouls a lot, bruh.

[Rob Mahoney]

That is the thing is that the Thunder, you know, every. Every championship defense has those sharp edges. The Thunder made a whole roster out of the sharp edges and then. And then put Shea on top of it.

[Justin Barrier]

I think it was a bad whistle first and foremost. I think everyone could agree on that. Unfortunately, it is intrinsic to the way Shay plays that his superpower is that he is shifty in a way that he can contort to avoid people, but also nick them just enough in order to get what he wants, plus the foul. And so it's going to keep happening. It's funny, it's like I always draw the comparison Harden, because I've said in the past, like, Harden just feels like on Another level than Shea where it just seems like Shay gets fouled in the course of doing what he's doing. I. I've said ethical ball drawing in the past, whereas Harden just feels like his primary motive is get to the line. Unfortunately, I did look up the numbers before this. Houston in Harden is Houston era did average 9.4 free throws a game. Shay this postseason, 9.2. It has gone higher. There have been more extremes for Harden where he had 10 and a half, two postseasons of this amount of games, like 10 plus. So we are getting into that territory. But still, even aesthetically, as someone who's watching it, I don't find it as offensive as Harden sidestepping his way. We're just trying to hook them.

[Big Woz]

It's not the same thing.

[Justin Barrier]

And so I almost feel like it's not true. More difficult battle or war. And I'm like, they send me to. To a lesser one.

[Big Woz]

It's not the same thing. It's not Trae Young. It's not Harden. It's not the worst of the worst. It's not, um. Again, he's getting hit. He is. The only point is other guys are getting hit too. Dude, they're getting hit just as hard as Shay is.

[Justin Barrier]

I think it's being amplified as well because I have to wonder how many people were really plugged into Thunder over the course of the regular season, especially after the trade deadline. Lucas on the Lakers, all this other stuff. How many people were really plugged into this being the course of action for them, winning. What was it, 68 games? And so that plus Shay winning MVP today was also unfortunate timing because it almost amplified that amplification. It does feel like they are fast becoming a little bit of the villains. And it's funny because you would think, like, just based on how their makeup is, they would be the sprightly young upstarts that everybody loves. If anything seems like people are piling on them, and I don't hate it. At least it gives them something of an identity in the big picture that at least people can latch on to. And almost it works for the NBA narratively to sell them as the Death Star. And like the. The. The. The rebel force from the Eastern Conference, if, let's say it's the Pacers coming to fight them, that. That's a little bit more of narrative tension than I can kind of. I could. I could get behind.

[Rob Mahoney]

But if Tyrese Halliburton is also the heel. Or is it just two Death Stars.

[Justin Barrier]

Oh, double healing well. It's kind of like how the Rock is a heel sometimes, but he is always a superstar.

[Rob Mahoney]

You know, I have no idea what you're talking about. I trust you and I trust Ben Cruz to correct us if you're wrong. But I don't know.

[Big Woz]

Here's the thing about okc. I'm happy people are starting to hate them. I think we need more hate within the sport because I would say outside passion. Yeah, it's passion. Outside of the Jordan Bulls second three peat, the most juice that's ever been around the NBA was Steph Curry, which, you know, was legitimate love, and the Heatles and which was just pure, unfiltered, unadultered hate. So listen, if fans gotta burn jerseys, call people's moms out of their names at the game, you know, throw batteries at reps, let's do it. Let's bring passion back to the NBA.

[Rob Mahoney]

You heard it here first. Wozni Lambre senior staff writer ringer.com More hate. More hate.

[Big Woz]

More hate. More toxicity. Maybe don't throw a pile of trash on a guy in a Pacer's jersey.

[Rob Mahoney]

Seems uncomfortable.

[Justin Barrier]

Bring that guy to a game.

[Big Woz]

You know, baby, don't do that.

[Justin Barrier]

Watch. Hel's dad is, is coming back for the finals. All of a sudden he's going to be sitting courtside and I don't think.

[Big Woz]

He'S coming back till next season. I don't think he's, he's not lifetime band, but he's probably done for the playoffs.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's extremely tough.

[Justin Barrier]

Yeah. All right. Do you want to talk about the actual game now?

[Rob Mahoney]

I, I, I will say this about the foul drawing part of this. Like ultimately one way in which it did put a damper on the game is Jaden McDaniels fouls out in 24 minutes. And that was an awesome matchup when it was allowed to happen. And some of that is the refs needing to maybe allow a little more contact. Some of it's Jaden McDaniels needing to pull his hands back and play with the utmost discretion given the opponent. Because I thought their they're kind of back and forth, specifically in the first half was one of the best parts of the game was kind of the chess match within the chess match. There was a lot given there in certain situations. I thought Jaden was just hounding him, denying him. You can tell the Thunders respect for Jaden McDaniels by the fact that they would sometimes give the ball to Lou Dort to bring the ball up court just so Shay didn't have to deal with Jaden 94ft. I thought that was. That was a nice little tip of the hat. But ultimately, like, I want Jaden McDaniels to be able to stay in these games and it's incumbent on him to figure out a way to do it because the Wolves will not win if he's fouling out of these things in 20 something minutes.

[Justin Barrier]

We talked so much about what would happen if the Thunder didn't make their threes. And then the wolves put up 51 three pointers in that one in just an atrocious to play of. Of shooting. I think this is going to happen against the Thunder, unfortunately. I think it was compounded by the fact that Ant was a little tentative, especially after it seemed like he turned his ankle, maybe even like turned it twice on the same play. He just went back and just didn't seem right that entire game. I do wonder a more aggressive ant, and especially now that the officials will not be able to bury their head about the fouls. I imagine a pretty dramatic swing the other way in which the game is a little bit more physical. And so maybe that plays into the Wolf strengths, not only because they are a more physical team first and foremost, but it seemed like a lot of the success was that the Thunder had was in that smaller ball lineup. Can you not go to J Dub at the. At center, Kendrick Williams at center if everything is going to be more of a pushing contest?

[Big Woz]

Yeah, to me, the, the, the, the shooting, it was working in the first half and Justin mentioned it felt like some fool's gold. I think the Ant not being able. You mentioned he had seven drives all game, Rob. Like, I think that's why their offense came to a standstill. Ant just could not be the juice in the engine. Cause look, Julius Randle's been doing a good job at generating offense for them, but it is Ant that is the engine of what they do. And if it was because he was hobbled, well, he better get unhobbled for Game 2, because that's the only way they're going to puncture this defense. Especially if Julius, you know, Julius Randle, God bless him, had a great playoff run. The amount of times this guy turned his back to the damn defense and just had OKC just taking his cookies. It was ridiculous. Right? Um, that's why you need Ant to kind of be the one that's serving the defense, forcing the double. Then you're getting the nice whipping the ball around. You know, Nas Reed, actually not Nas Reed was harried all game. He did not look Comfortable. Some of the shots were open. The, the Wolves did have some open looks that they just missed. But a lot of Nas Reid's threes felt like forces to me. A lot of his shooting, his shot attempts felt like he was in a rush the entire game. And it's because it wasn't. The shots weren't coming out of the natural flow of Anthony Edwards puncturing the defense, putting the defense in a bind with the pull up three and then just destroying guys going downhill. It's that combination that makes has been making the Wolves offense sing. And yes, Julius Randle being a dog, which he was in the first half, splashed like four threes or something like that. And so I think Ant has to be better. Um, he's risen to the occasion pretty much every single freaking series so far. He's risen to the occasion damn near his entire playoff life as a, as a player, even, even in defeat. Like he's shown that, like, all right, I belong on the court with these guys and I think he's going to show that against Shay next game.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think he's going to have great games in this series. I just don't know how much the downhill stuff is going to be there. If you kind of like freeze frame it when Ant has the ball, obviously he's got someone like Lou Dort guarding him. He's got the two nearest defenders encroaching, flanking Lou Dort, and then he's got usually at least one other guy waiting for him in the paint. There's not a lot of room there to actually navigate anything. And so when you think about the Wolves offense, like this was a team that during the regular season was a ton of threes and a ton of shots at the rim. The Thunder do not let you get to the rim. They just don't let it happen. They play with that physicality. They do foul a lot. They create these walls with all these defenders. They create a bunch of turnovers out of all that. And so if the Thunder aren't going to let you get to the rim, what happens in this game it was just even more threes. That was really the only card that Minnesota had to play. They're going to have to find other ways to create other types of mid range offense to get, you know, to channel their inner Shay in some ways. And that's going to be Julius Randle, that's going to be Ant. Whether he's pulling up from three or pulling up from two, all that stuff is going to matter. Ultimately, to put the three point stuff in context, in terms of supporting Cass, the players around Shay and the players around Ant. The guys around Ant made one more three pointer than the guys around Shea in this game and they took 26 more threes to do it. That's not going to fucking work. Like, you got to find other avenues to consistent offense if you're going to have a chance in the series. I think the Wolves can, can find some of those inroads, but this is not the formula.

[Big Woz]

They get some foul calls, I bet you things loosen up.

[Rob Mahoney]

That'll definitely help.

[Big Woz]

It's a, it's, it is a miracle how space opens up when guys can't hold you on your drives.

[Justin Barrier]

There's that. I, I do think the Thunder though have every reason to force the Wolves basically to prove it from the outside. Like that's what this game is going to prove them is they're going to be like, oh, just let them do that. And then on the one hand I want to say like, the bench can't shoot any worse because I believe there are 5 from 28 overall from 3. On the other hand, they kind of do this sometimes and I wouldn't be surprised if it happened one or two more times over the course of this series. And so I don't know. Thunder just have that advantage where it seems like even when it comes down to a situation like this, they have options. I was so just marveled once again when they were able to turn to Kenrich Williams, basically dig him out of the deep rotation. I don't think he played beyond garbage time in, in the playoffs.

[Big Woz]

Bubble wrap, the whole playoffs.

[Justin Barrier]

And basically they were like, oh, we need to go to our small ball center. And I could almost envision an assistant coach for the Thunder being like, which one? No, not the bigger small ball center. We want the winger, the wing size, the wing, small ball center, the winger, he just made an instant impact. And like, they just have options. You know, a series is problem solving yet again. They just have options.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think ultimately, like we pointed out, OKC going smaller overall. Isaiah Hartenstein, not really that huge a factor in this game, doesn't play in the fourth quarter. Rudy Gobert does not play in the fourth quarter. And Nas is playing terribly in this game.

[Big Woz]

Might not be long for this series.

[Rob Mahoney]

This is my question for the two of you. From now on, games two to whenever this series ends, who plays more minutes at the 5 in this series? Rudy Gobert or J Dub? Who ends up logging more minutes at the 5 in this series?

[Big Woz]

Definitely Rudy.

[Rob Mahoney]

You think so?

[Big Woz]

Yeah, definitely Rudy. Because I Think you do want to still preserve some kind of advantage on the boards. And I think Rudy has the ability to not be a complete train wreck when they force him to play in space. It's just the reason why he got pulled is cuz the team is struggling to score and Rudy Coper is not gonna aid in that task like well.

[Rob Mahoney]

But it's also cause he had three rebounds in 21 minutes and every time they did try to give him the ball. I agree with you, like he can be better, but this is sort of a worst case scenario for Rudy Gobert's offense, right? All of these swarming guys slapping down at the ball.

[Big Woz]

Slow ass, slow finishes are death.

[Justin Barrier]

It's always the offense.

[Big Woz]

This team, man, like you know, with the Lakers and their slow ass rotations and a hobbled ass, you know, Golden State, that was one thing. But these dudes, that possession where he's running clear to the rim and he turns himself around and throws it up like that, like what are you doing bro? Catch the rock and dunk it on a six foot one guy's head.

[Justin Barrier]

That's the problem. If you're going to go small, Rudy should be the counter. He has to make them pay for doing that, but he's never able to do so. I think the good news for the Wolves is we've seen when Shay isn't getting to the line, isn't having success in the paint, things start to spiral as quickly as they did for the Wolves. And so we, we know the script here. It's like they'll go to their threes. If they're not hitting their threes then Rudy can stay on the floor and then it plays more into your advantage. And so that could just happen in game two just by sheer dent of like the whistle not going SGA's way. And so like the blueprint I think is still there for the Wolves. Unfortunately I think it just takes a little bit more than from what they the Thunder need to go, right? Because the defense once again has just been so reliable. Everything is, is fluctuating throughout the playoffs. The Thunder's defense, game in and game out has showed up.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's the most reliable thing in the entire playoff field. More reliable than any superstar player. We've been going back and forth like who's the best player in this postseason? I don't know. Everyone's had their ups and downs a.

[Big Woz]

Little by the best player.

[Rob Mahoney]

Let's correct the record.

[Big Woz]

It's Aaron Neesmith.

[Rob Mahoney]

But yeah. So the Thunder defense is going to be there. I think from the OKC side, there's also. There are also two pretty positive developments in this game. One of them, I thought J Dub looked better going one on one and getting to his stuff in the mid range than he did at any point of the series against Denver. If that holds, that helps kind of counter, you know, Shay's lulls or the times where he isn't getting to the line or he isn't scoring as consistently because in the first half, Shay could not hit anything. And they were really reliant on J Dub to create some offense. I also thought with Chet, who only had 15 points in this game, not a number, it's going to really pop. But by the fourth, good. By the fourth quarter especially, they were moving him around. They're like high pick and roll stuff, going to the basket, baseline, cutting free dunks. Like they were getting him moving in a way that I wasn't positive they were going to be able to do with the Wolves defense. And so that's a finisher. Yes.

[Justin Barrier]

Not a starter.

[Rob Mahoney]

Absolutely. Yes.

[Justin Barrier]

Like, and that has happened against the Nuggets as well.

[Big Woz]

Great at it.

[Justin Barrier]

Yes. Like, there are times where he'll be squirrely and you're like, oh, he's getting pushed around a little bit. He's not making the easy buckets for himself. But as the game goes along, it almost seems like he gets more powerful. I don't know if he just gets more into it or what, but he was swatting shots by the end of that game like he was fucking Rudy.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Justin Barrier]

Was you feeling any differently about the Wolves long term? You picked them for the series.

[Big Woz]

No, I think they, again, it's a game one. They have to be a lot more crisp in their defense. I know it's a broken record, but oftentimes these game ones come down to you just didn't nail your assignments, man. Like they gotta be a lot more crisp. And you know, this sounds stupid with the adjustment and Edwards superstar play better. That's the adjustment. My best guy has to be way better and look like in the last round like Denver pushed it to whatever they pushed it to, to seven games because what Jamal Murray and Jokic ended up playing better in certain games, like that's oftentimes what you need from your guys in order to, you know, make the series look more like what we thought it would. So to me, that's the adjustment, man. Being athletic, being physical on defense, like they've been all playoffs long and they were for big stretches in the first half. And Ant Edwards being he's Just gotta be better. He's just gotta be great.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think ultimately there is still clearly a path for the Wolves to win the series. They're immensely talented. They can play much better than they did. We've seen it. Other teams have experienced it. The Wolves are really good. They were going to have to overcome this Thunder defense to win the series. Like, this is a show of force from the Thunder. And these are the stakes. Right? Like, if you don't play really clean, near perfect basketball, you're going to lose some games like this if you're Minnesota. And I think the nine combined turnovers for Ant and Julius Randle, some of which is born out of the fact that they're not getting those calls, that they're trying to go through some contact or shying away from it, that's a huge problem. Ultimately, I think the Thunder had what they 31, 31 points off turnovers in this game. Not a formula. It's going to be very successful for the Wolves, if that. So long as that's the case. So they have a lot to clean up both sides of the ball. They need to figure out the rotation. They need to look themselves in the mirror and figure out if they want to be the big team in the series or not. Like, do you want to make Rudy work or are you going to default to NAS at the 5? Are you going to default to other looks? Are you going to try to meet the Thunder where they are? I wouldn't recommend that, but at the same time, I don't have the magic solution that's going to make Rudy Gobert a great offensive player in the series either.

[Justin Barrier]

OKC finished with 30 plus points off of turnovers for the fourth time this postseason. It's the most in a single Postseason already since 1997. The Wolves had 00 fast break points.

[Rob Mahoney]

Wow.

[Justin Barrier]

So that has to change. Yeah. Unfortunately, the Thunder is. When you get them in transition, they're gonna fucking run you over. And so let's hope that tilts Elise a little bit more in the Wolves direction in game two. Why don't we wrap it there, guys? Thanks for not choking this one away. Appreciate it. Thank you to Isaiah Blakely and thank you to Ben Cruz. We'll be back Saturday night for game three. I think of the west finals. So, yes, foreign must be 21 plus and present in select states. For Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 + and present in D.C. gambling problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut or visit mdg.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or 800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text hopeny in New York.