The Ringer NBA Show – "Knicks Offseason Thoughts and Expectations for the 2025-26 Season With Fred Katz"

Date: August 22, 2025
Host: Big Wos (Wosny Lambre)
Guest: Fred Katz (The Athletic)

Episode Overview

In this episode, Big Wos is joined by Fred Katz to break down one of the most dramatic New York Knicks offseasons in recent memory. They dissect the surprising firing of Tom Thibodeau, the unusual coaching search, Mike Brown's hiring, and the far-reaching ramifications for the Knicks’ 2025-26 season. Fred offers inside reporting, challenges surface-level narratives, and the duo oscillate between deep basketball analysis and lively, often irreverent banter. The conversation also covers Brunson’s leadership, Karl-Anthony Towns’ usage, expectations for the East, and the shifting power dynamics in the Knicks organization.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Tom Thibodeau Firing and Coaching Search

• Why Firing Tibbs Was So Shocking

  • The Knicks had a hugely successful season, reaching their first Eastern Conference finals in 25 years.
  • Despite that, insiders felt pressure mounted throughout the playoffs.
  • Fred Katz (02:01):

    “Going into the playoffs, really, everybody around the team had the impression: okay, if they lose to Detroit, then the coaching staff is out... once they beat Boston... and during that Indiana series, I’m still getting the impression that... it's do or die for us.”

• The Knicks’ Unique Sense of ‘Family’

  • Knicks have built a culture around Leon Rose, World Wide Wes, Thibodeau, and the players' ties (notably the “Nova Knicks,” Brunson, DiVincenzo…).
  • Wos (08:03):

    “It’s blood in, blood out, blah, blah, blah… it felt like Tibbs was a made man.”

• What Went Wrong

  • Roster fit issues: Mikal Bridges not meeting two-way expectations, Towns issues with wings defending, shallow bench, and rigid lineups.
  • Fred Katz (10:15):

    “Tibbs was an amazing coach for Jalen Brunson, an amazing coach for Dante DiVincenzo... I don’t think he was a great coach for Mikal Bridges... maybe not an amazing coach for OG Anunoby.”

2. Minutes, Lineup Choices, and Coaching Philosophy

• Thibodeau’s ‘Minutes’ Debate

  • Despite outcry, Knicks were healthiest team in playoffs after playing heavy minutes.
  • Issue was not total minutes, but lack of experimentation—rotations were rigid, and some lineups barely saw the floor.
  • Fred Katz (16:22):

    “To me, it’s less about the total minutes and more about the distribution... you want as much data as possible on every single possible lineup... rather than win 54 [games] and know your starting lineup has played twice as many minutes as any other in the league, and it's not that good.”

• Expectation from Mike Brown

  • Seen as more collaborative, experimental, and open to ideas from staff and players (compared to Tibbs’ rigidity).
  • Fred Katz (23:35):

    “They wanted more of a flow and flux of ideas, I think, from the coaching staff up to the coach. That’s how Mike Brown operated in Sacramento."

3. The Mike Brown Hire: Process and Implications

• Was This a Bold Enough Move?

  • Wos questions why Knicks didn’t pursue ‘splashier’ targets like Erik Spoelstra or Steve Kerr with similar all-in fervor as their roster moves.
  • Wos (18:19):

    “Now Boston is down, the Pacers are cooked... Why the fk are we not doing this for Erik Spoelstra? Why aren’t we getting the best fking coach in America…?”

• Fred’s Inside Reporting

  • Knicks called about Ime Udoka; Rockets flatly refused. Spoelstra/Kerr never realistically available.
  • Fred Katz (20:45):

    “I think the Rockets very unkindly told them to go screw themselves and that was it. I don’t know if they made a call on Erik Spoelstra... I can’t even imagine what Pat Riley would say.”

• Why Mike Brown Fits

  • Highly detail-oriented, defense-focused, practices more than Tibbs; is collaborative, empowering assistants, and open to innovation (Sacramento’s offense credited partly to assistants).
  • Fred Katz (23:53):

    “What the Knicks felt like they needed wasn’t necessarily... somebody higher in Tibbs... but somebody who’s going to have a different approach and a different voice... experiment more in the regular season... collaborative.”

4. Jalen Brunson’s Leadership and Adaptability

• Will Brunson Buy In?

  • Wos questions if Brown will have enough “gravitas” to get Brunson to change his heavy-usage, clutch-centric style.

  • Fred asserts Brunson’s obsessive competitiveness and coachability.

  • Fred Katz (30:55):

    “Jalen played that way because that was how it was coached and that's what he thought was the best way... With Jalen, you just need to show ‘here's why this works’—he doesn’t care who the messenger is.”

  • Example: When Julius Randle went down, Brunson ran the second most off-ball screens in the league (behind only Klay Thompson) because Tibbs asked him to do so.

5. Karl-Anthony Towns, Mikal Bridges, and Optimizing Offense

• KAT’s Underutilization

  • Both agree Towns must become a more central offensive focus—his decoy role hurt the Knicks late in the season.
  • Wos (40:56):

    “The idea that Karl Towns can be some kind of decoy or afterthought in how you attack the best defenses—that just can’t be... He has way more to offer an offense.”

• Mike Brown’s Offensive Influence

  • Sacramento had the most efficient offense in NBA history running through Domantas Sabonis.
  • Brown is collaborative and willing to let his assistants influence the offense—likely to be more dynamic and experiment-friendly.
  • Fred Katz (47:58):

    “Mike Brown was able to say, ‘Alright, Jay Triano and Jordy Fernandez came up with this offense. This looks real good. I’m going to implement that...’ He has the self-awareness and humility to recognize that.”

6. Knicks’ Off-Season Culture Shift and Front Office Philosophy

• Front Office’s “All-In” Approach

  • Despite massive asset outlays (Bridges, OG Anunoby), Knicks played it safer with coaching search.
  • Wos (27:12):

    “For whatever reason, the Knicks decided for this team it’s not worth it...[with the] coach we’re just going to passively play it safe. I don’t understand that approach.”

• Fred’s Counterpoint

  • The organization is confident in Mike Brown’s ability to maximize talent, foster collaboration, and manage stars without the need for a ‘tier 1’ household name coach.

7. Expectations and the East’s Competitive Landscape

• What’s a Successful Knicks Season?

  • Front office statement: “Singularly focused on winning a title.”

  • Fred sees this as organizational posturing—not necessarily in line with reality.

  • Fred Katz (59:06):

    “I don’t agree with that. I think [the Knicks] have a really good roster... could win the title... but I don’t think they’re the best team in the league like Oklahoma City is.”

  • Both agree that anything less than a deep, competitive Eastern Conference finals run would be underwhelming.

  • Wos (61:02):

    “Anything less than a hyper-competitive Eastern Conference finals showing... you’ve underachieved in this Eastern Conference.”

• Threats in the East

  • Cavaliers are “the class of the East” alongside the Knicks.
  • Orlando Magic getting hype for their athletic, tough, multi-dimensional roster.
  • Detroit and Atlanta also mentioned as dark horses, especially if their youth develops and health holds.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Tibbs’ Impact & Synergy with Brunson
  Fred Katz (06:52):

  “Jalen was almost raised to play for Tibbs... one of the reasons he went to New York was to play for Tibbs... it’s not a surprise that it worked great.”

• On DiVincenzo’s Loyalty to Tibbs
  Fred Katz (10:39):

  “Dante DiVincenzo loves Tibbs more than either of us love, like, our own mothers... would play for him in a second.”

• On Coaching Innovation
  Fred Katz (48:54):

  “Mike Brown was able to say, ‘OK this is better than what I came up with. I’m going to implement that. I have the humility to recognize that.’”

• On Jalen Brunson’s Coachability
  Fred Katz (33:08):

  “Jalen ran around the second most off-ball screens in the league for the rest of that season. And it worked... With Jalen, it doesn’t matter who gives him the message.”

• On Eastern Conference Competition
  Wos (64:14):

  “To me, it's Orlando by far... that physicality, that toughness, that athleticism... is something teams just can't replicate.”

Timestamps for Major Segments

| Timestamp | Topic/Quote | |------------|-----------| | 02:01 | Fred Katz discusses playoff pressures for Tibbs’ staff | | 06:52 | The family dynamic: Brunson, Tibbs, CAA connections | | 10:39 | DiVincenzo’s loyalty & anonymous poll story | | 16:22 | Rigid rotations vs. experimental lineups | | 18:19 | Wos: “Why aren’t we getting [Spoelstra or Kerr]?” | | 20:45 | Fred: “Rockets told them to go screw themselves [re: Udoka]” | | 23:35 | Knicks valued coaching staff collaboration; Mike Brown hire | | 30:55 | Will Brunson listen to Brown? Fred explains his approachability | | 40:56 | Towns’ offensive role; why it must change | | 44:08 | Mike Brown’s Sacramento offense, impact of Sabonis | | 47:58 | Brown’s humility in adopting better assistant ideas | | 59:06 | Are Knicks a championship roster? Fred: “No, but close.” | | 61:02 | Defining a successful season: “Eastern Conference finals or bust.” | | 64:14 | Orlando, Detroit, and Atlanta as teams to watch |

Conclusion: What Should Knicks Fans Expect?

• The Knicks are going all-in — but with risks. The culture is shifting toward collaboration, experimentation, and a more modern approach under Mike Brown and his staff.
• The coaching change isn’t about getting higher ‘upside’ but about diversifying the approach — more flexibility, new offensive wrinkles, and better maximization of underused stars like Towns and Bridges.
• True success means, at minimum, making the Eastern Conference finals in a convincing manner, given the organization’s stated ambition and the current competitive landscape.
• Potential wild cards: The rise of Orlando and Detroit, Brunson’s willingness to adapt even further, and how fully Towns is integrated.

For more insight from Fred Katz, follow his coverage at The Athletic and the "Cats and Shoot" podcast—Knicks fans will get plenty of detail and more reporting all season long.