Loading summary
Transcript165 lines
- [00:00]
Roger Bell
Foreign,
- [00:12]
Howard Beck
Real ones. Logan Murdoch here, Howard Beck there, Roger Bell there. LeBron James is a Philadelphia 76er. He signed a two year, $8 million deal with the team with a player option in the second year. My favorite part of this sham's tweet, Clutch Sports Group and Clutch CEO and Game over show host Rich Paul tells ESPN when he broke the news this morning. Man, there's a lot of different ways we can go with this. I mean, LeBron James, I feel like personally this is the, probably the best case scenario in terms for him, in terms of wanting to win, wanting some sort of institutional control over a team, and also just the perfect fit for him at this stage of his career. With Tyrese Maxey, with Jalen Brown, with Joel Embiid, if he is continues to be healthy. VJ Edgecomb as well. I personally love the fit. I'm going to go with Raja first and then go to Howard after that. Raja, LeBron James, Philadelphia 76er. What does that mean to you? And how does that feel to you?
- [01:19]
Roger Bell
Yeah, that's. It feels exciting for, for me, for NBA fans, for Sixers fans. Listen, I'd be remiss if I didn't take another shot at the Celtic. You fucked up. You fucked up.
- [01:33]
Howard Beck
You fucked up.
- [01:34]
Roger Bell
You fucked up. Yeah, because like you, you plug Jaylen Brown into that, which was already looking pretty promising from a core perspective. And it becomes a destination that I think you plug in a LeBron James. What he does on the court, clearly, I mean, he was making that transition last year, playing off the ball more, doing some of the more grunt work type of plays. Not that it, not to diminish anything that he still is as a player, but like, just diving into some of those roles in a way that were more complimentary than you've seen him do in the past. And I think that experience is going to bode really well for him moving over to the Sixers. But I mean, you talk about just leadership, understanding of what it takes to get to the mountaintop, the articulation of falling in love with the process and showing one how to do that. I watched that firsthand when I sat in front offices in Cleveland and I saw him kind of introduce different players to that mantra and they lived those raps. I just think it's great for Philadelphia. I love it for LeBron because it gives him another real shot at a title. So I would, you know, look, I was kind of surprised. In the back of my mind, I was telling my wife, when the news dropped, I sneakily kind of thought like that, that was the move. Just when you look at all of them on paper. And I couldn't imagine him going to somewhere just for Vibes. I just didn't see that for LeBron. I know what they were saying, but I didn't see that. I thought he, you know, he wants to win. It's always been about winning. It will always be about winning for as long as he's in the league. And I think this gives him a real, real opportunity at that.
- [03:16]
Howard Beck
That's why I love this. And there's so many ways we're going to take it during throughout this podcast. From a legacy standpoint, from a power standpoint, from a league standpoint, how he fits in the Western Conference and the Sixers as a whole. But that was the biggest thing though, Raja, that you pointed to that I was thinking about, which is the fit. And when you talk about the fit people were talking about, and we're going to get into the actual teams. One of the teams that is in my backyard is the Golden State Warriors. And I think this is the prime example, me thinking that Vibes were not going to be enough for him. Right? You think about the, the warriors in that sense, providing, oh, yeah, we're going to give you golf courses, we're going to give you all these things. You get to play with Steph and just, just have like a basketball nirvana. And I'm like, actually, do you know what LeBron has been for the last, I don't know, 20, however many years, as long as he's been on the scene since high school, this dude wants to win. Now, he does have a lot of hubris involved in some weird decision making at some points in his career, but ultimately he is going to put him in him a best position to win. And he's always been that way from Cleveland the first stint, why he chose Miami, right? When he saw Miami ultimately didn't have the legs to continue his, you know, championship passion, he went to go do a younger team that he deemed fit. Obviously it was Cleveland and all those things, but Cleveland had to build a team sufficient enough for him to think, oh, I can take this team to a title. Then goes to the Lakers. A bit more of a legacy play, but he still picks Anthony Davis and saying, hey, you trade him, eventually we're going to go compete for titles, right? And then this one, when he has a chance through la, and there's all the things that we have talked about in the past that happened in la, why it ultimately didn't work out in the way That I think everybody wanted it.
- [05:00]
Podcast Sponsor/Host
This episode is brought to you by Facebook. So you were scrolling on Marketplace, and there it was, the bike you'd been searching for. You sent a message, and it turned out the same seller was super chatty, kind of funny, and an avid cyclist. The next thing you know, you're in a cycling crew. Well, a community cycling group. The thing about Facebook, you might find more than what you're looking for from a browse to a bike ride this summer. Find more on Facebook,
- [05:30]
Howard Beck
too. But then he goes to the Sixers. I'm like, yeah, dude, he can compete in the Eastern Conference, right? He can also play a role where he doesn't have to carry all the time, but then also he gets to be in a conference where it's there for the taking for this team, right? And he can actually going to compete not only for the Eastern Conference, but, like, you know, we seen what the Knicks did last year. Can compete for a title. That's what was the big thing for me, is like, oh, yeah, there are vibes other places, but he wants to win. And by the way, you want to talk about vibes, Raja and Howard, Philadelphia is going to be fucking on fire. Philadelphia is this. It's going to be insane. Roger, real quick, before we get to Howard, can you explain, like, what this is going to be like for Philadelphia? Because I don't feel like Philadelphia has been in the center of the basketball universe in this way since you were on the Sixers. What is Philly like and what do you foresee Philly being like with the Eagles being good? The Phillies might have an extended playoff run at some this fall. What. What is Philly going to be like at this particular point?
- [06:35]
Roger Bell
Yeah, man, look, when Philly is good, when. When. Now, they suffer no fools. So, like, when you're not good, it's the complete antithesis. But when Philly is good and you've got multiple opportunities for. For. For. For teams to be good, I don't think there's a better sports town in. In America. I really don't. You know, I know Boston has this stuff in. New York's great, but, like, when Philly is good, I gotta keep qualifying that. But, you know, because, like, when it's bad, it's bad, but when they're good, it's unlike. It's unlike anything that I've ever seen before. Now, granted, I didn't. I didn't play in every market that was. Was supposed to be a fantastic sports market. I do just want to add, like, before Howard goes, if you will. You know, he. LeBron, this decision was always going to be really interesting to me because for all the. For all that everyone talked about the role on the court being, to some degree, the motivating factor in decision making and the vibes, I always felt that it was equally important for LeBron in his camp. And I don't even mean this in the, like, organizational control way that he gets kind of depicted in a lot of the time, but it was equally important for him to be able to fill the leadership role and assume that in the way that he's been accustomed to, not necessarily the leadership role on the court. Having the ball, conducting offense, making the plays. I think he kind of understands that. Yo, dog, like, you know, I'm much better at this point in my career, kind of supporting people in that regard, but, like, he is still a dude that wants to be the pulse of that locker room, the leadership. He wants to have it, you know, kind of a roster look to him for those things. And. And I always believed that that was going to be super important in the process. And quite frankly, you know, I think other teams kind of miss on that. Like, you know, you got decisions to make financially and whether or not he can be the face of your franchise moving forward, but, you know, people don't put enough stock in. In a guy who knows how to do something and gets it done and has a blueprint and has executed that blueprint over and over again, and they swing a talent that. That. That hasn't always produced championships. Right. You know, and that's understood. But I always thought that was going to be a big part of his decision. Can I walk into a locker room and have my voice be the one that is. That is look to. For. For the answers?
- [09:02]
Howard Beck
Yeah. And I don't think he would have had that necessarily in Miami because that's. That's. That's Pat Riley's domain. Right. And he wasn't going to. Yeah, he could have had it in. But they didn't have the Giannis. Right? Giannis. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I don't think that they had necessarily the talent. He wasn't. We'll talk about the teams that were involved, but, like, the Minnesota. I don't think that would have worked out. He would have the leadership back, had the leadership vacuum, but I don't think he would have. I think that would have made. Gave him an aneurysm. But I want to read a. I want to read a passage or not a passage, a tweet before I get to Howard and it'll illustrate my question. The tweet from LeBron James. I thought it was done when the season ended. I wasn't ready to announce it, and I knew I needed some time to really decide, but I was sure that I played my last game. I was honest at that last press conference when I seated, when I said I needed to look at myself and decide if I still love this game. I truly love this game. I have more to give. And the last few weeks have been really special. I've never been able to have no clue what to do and take real time just to think. I've had an incredible few months with all the people I love trying to figure it all out. This is my last decision. I'm not going for money. I'm not going for family. Damn, what am I really playing for at this point? I still want to sacrifice. I still want to work. I still want to grind. I still want to compete, to win and to have a chance at the feeling of winning another championship. I believe that I can help the Philadelphia 76ers make them a championship team. And I'm so excited to energize a new fan base and start this incredible journey one last time. Thank you, la, Miami. I'll forever love you. And Northeast Ohio will always be home. When you hear that, Beck, what does that tell you about LeBron's mindset at this particular point going into this decision?
- [10:52]
Logan Murdoch
He wants to win another championship. That's it. It's really clear. And I don't know that the Philadelphia 76ers are necessarily the best route to that championship. He clearly thinks so, though, because if he wanted to just play with guys who he's known and respected and would. Would play great and play at a high level and maybe even have a chance to. To win, but he could have gone to Golden State. But if you're in the Western Conference, you still got to deal with the spurs and Thunder.
- [11:20]
Howard Beck
They weren't gonna. They weren't gonna get. They weren't gonna get far and go to State.
- [11:22]
Podcast Sponsor/Host
Man.
- [11:23]
Howard Beck
That wasn't happening. Go ahead. Sorry.
- [11:24]
Logan Murdoch
But everything is a. You just don't know everything. First of all, he believes that wherever he goes has a chance because he's there. Secondly, the playoffs, especially in today's NBA, have a way of getting weird. But is it very, very clear to anybody who's watched this league, even for five minutes in the last year that the Western Conference is far harder to get through than the East? Yeah, I think that's pretty darn clear. So he's he's taking, I don't want to say root of least resistance, but it was going to put it this way, I think it was going to take a lot to extract him from some, some quick flight with in and out of LA where his family is. Right. He's not moving them again. But his kids are older now. It's not as critical as when he was younger to maybe try to. To stay close. Like I. I think once you decide you're leaving LA and leaving all of the advantages there and then leaving California or leaving anything close to there, then everything is on the table. Miami, I never thought made a whole lot of sense. Cleveland made a lot of sense. We've talked about this, right? Like Cleveland and Golden State were the ones that had, I think, the most emotional residents, narrative resonance, personal ties, whether to players or city. And so Philly, to me, always felt we talked about this weeks ago. I didn't really buy that he was seriously considering them. So, you know, count me wrong on that one. But I didn't think he was going to be as much of a mercenary in his final stages as he's clearly being. He wants the ring. And the reason to go to Philly is that even before he gets there, they look better on paper than Cleveland. They're definitely better on paper than Miami. So of the. Of the options he was considering, you know, and especially when you, once you decide I got to get out of the west because I don't really want to deal with San Antonio and Oklahoma, then yeah, I mean, that, that looks like a clear choice. Whether it's going to work is a whole other issue, by the way. Like, do they have the most talent on paper? Sure. Do they have anything resembling role players there? And are some of their stars going to start being role players? Because you can't have five stars. It doesn't really work that way in the NBA. So, I mean, they got some shit to figure out, but on paper looks awesome. LeBron is still a top 20 player as far as I'm concerned. We know what Jaylen Brown can do. We know what Tyrese Maxey and Vijay Edgecomb can do. We know what Joel Embiid, when healthy, can do. They got to get him through a full season, but we'll see. Like, but this is the place where if LeBron thought, I want a shot at a fifth ring, I don't know if I'm going to get it. But what's the best path to a fifth ring or the most viable, then, yeah, the 76ers are the choice.
- [14:08]
Howard Beck
Let's look at the, the Sixers off season. They traded for Jalen Brown and got Paul George out of the paint for that. They have, they've got Anthony Simons. Anthony Simons. Excuse me. They got Dion Wade, Caleb Love, and Ariel Huckport. So their biggest, the biggest thing, that, that's, that's going to be hard on them. They do have the wings, but they don't have the front court depth. I mean, LeBron can play five, but I don't think you want him to play five in this, in this particular setting for four, even 48 games. It's like maybe five games a year if that. And they have to be like, maybe four of them be playoff games. How do you see this roster gelling? Because, I mean, Howard put up a great point, Raj, in that, like, this team has to gel. There's a lot of egos in there. We got to see what Jaylen Brown does. Embiid hasn't even spoke about anything that has happened all offseason. And, you know, we kind of forget about him in the Philadelphia landscape at this point. But how does this come together? What is the best case scenario here and what is the worst case scenario that you see coming forward?
- [15:09]
Roger Bell
I mean, best case scenario, they're in the finals, right? And then we'll roll the dice. Worst case scenario, it just does not click. And it's, it's another, you know, Philadelphia 76ers team that, that, that just, you couldn't get it right. And, and it, it didn't live up to your expectations, like, it could flame out. I don't see that being a very viable option for this team, though. Look, Joel Embiid is critical to the, to, to whether or not this succeeds or not. You do not want LeBron banging, you know, at the five for any extended periods of time as, as a four. Love it. You, you, you need Joel Embiid to be healthy and to be, you know, on the floor when it matters. I, I, I do think they have role players, though. I think LeBron last year was a role player. And I, I don't want to get clipped or anything like that. I'm not, I'm not saying that to diminish what he was doing, but, like, that's the role that they asked him chunks of the season last year, and we've been on the pod over and over again. At least I have just, you know, applauding the, the way he transitioned into that. So I wouldn't for any moment of time think that he was delusional about what he's going to be when he comes to the Sixers on the court. I think Joel Embiid, I mean he got, he, he popped into old Joel Embiid in the playoffs for a minute. But his role in is, is not to carry all game, every game like it used to be. He'll carry for stretches, you know, matchups will dictate you give him the ball, let him go to work. Like certainly that's a part of, of the equation there, but I think he understands that he is more of a complimentary piece. And I, and we're talking, if these dudes do understand these things, two of the highest level role dudes you can ask for or find in the league. So is Vijay Edgecombe like Vijay Edgecomb at this point in his, you know, ascension as a player and his maturation process, like you are an athletic bucket getting rim, rim to rim defending. Like those are the things we're asking you to do. This is going to be Maxi and Jalen Brown with the ball in their hands and we're going to support that. So I do think that, yes, you know, if we're going to go back 10 years, you might have said, hey dude, who's going to have the ball? Like, what are we doing here? How's this going to work? But at this point in these dudes careers, the two older ones, you know, being where they are, and then Vijay not coming into his prime yet, I don't think you're going to have as big of an issue as you think. And we often get on here and I've done it with you guys before and I've been the guy who said, yeah, I don't know how that's going to work. And the pushback I get from you guys and media is, oh man, you put a bunch of smart basketball players on the court who are skilled, they're going to figure it out. This is no fucking different, yo.
- [17:47]
Howard Beck
You know what I, what I do like about this, right? And it was, you were talking, it made me think about watching the Sixers last year and what was the biggest gripe that we had about the Sixers last year? They couldn't pick, they couldn't pick a side of what they wanted to be. I believe that because they were, they were stuck at the past and in the future. Right. And whenever the future was playing, it was awesome. It was VJ is comb getting dunks. It was him creating his own offense. It was Maxi playing off of that. Right. And what I think here, the best case scenario Is. And I think that LeBron, me and Cliff was talking about this earlier, by the way. Cliff is ecstatic right now. Jesus.
- [18:22]
Podcast Sponsor/Host
He is.
- [18:22]
Howard Beck
I. I've never seen.
- [18:24]
Roger Bell
Good for you, Cliff.
- [18:26]
Howard Beck
Clap it up for Cliff. But no, the thing that we were talking about last, last year and this morning was like, Man, LeBron is like the best plug for this team, right? Like, from a leadership standpoint, he. He's not. He's not. He's on a two year, $8 million contract. Like, he's here to. He's not going to be a six man necessarily, because he's going to start every game. But I think if he is, he knows that he needs to have the mentality of that. I'm going to go lead the second unit. I'm going to get Anthony Simons of all. I'm going to plug and play, and then I'm going to, you know, if he plays like 25, 32 minutes a game and he's playing with that second unit and he is kind of taking a step back in the way that he did last year, I think this is going to be a good thing. And you let these young guys figure out, let them carry you. If I'm Joel Embiid, I don't know ego about this shit. Yo, I'm going to let VJ edge comb you go get 31 on the night. Yo, Jalen Brown, you want to get 51, and maxi, you get 51. Cool. Like, LeBron can have a lot of. He doesn't have to have 25, 8 and 8 games. He can also on some nights have an 8, 11 and 5 game. That's great. And that's going to be just as effective for this team. And I'm really excited to see that dynamic because I think if the OG OG step back a little bit, it will let the youngins blossom. And I think that is a big reason why LeBron took this time. I think him, like, not taking as much money and not doing all this sent a real good message. Like, hey, man, I'm here to win a title in the way that I can do it, right? I think it's really. It's not a great comparison, but I think it's. You guys are going to feel me on this. I think it's late stage Wilt Chamberlain, man. I think that it's like, yo, whatever you need me to do, I am going to pass the ball to Jerry West. I am going to get it to this person. I'm going to get it to this person. I don't have to be the scorer that I was in gold when I was at the San Francisco warriors or when I was with the Sixers. I can be what you need me to be. And I think that that's going to both help the leadership aspect, the bench scoring, and I think that this ultimately going to help figure itself out. I think that is the best case scenario. I think it's also the most plausible scenario at this point. Also caught up in the moment, Howard, and you were going to bring me down to earth if I need to, but I think that that is, might be the, the best best case scenario is if we have like a super role player and then the young guys can flourish in the way they need to.
- [20:41]
Logan Murdoch
Yeah, I mean, look, to raja's point about LeBron and yes, we did, I did praise him for the way he meshed his game around Luca and Doncic, Luca and Doncic, Luca and Austin Reeves. And that was one situation. Right. And because there were three of them, they were all kind of primary ball handler types. And also they had a lot of stretches last season where when one or more were hurt, I do think it allowed LeBron to have a lot of opportunities to also be a primary guy. Right. Sometimes he's playing off them, sometimes he's driving it himself. But there were only three of them and everybody else was a role player, not even very high level role players and certainly nobody else who was going to really handle the ball. VJ Edgecomb is most effective with the ball in his hands, and so is Tyrese Maxey, and so is Jaylen Brown, and so is LeBron. And Joel Embiid likes to kind of ISO a lot. So it's not so much about, you know, like, this is not an apples to apples comparison. It's five dudes at various stages of their career. And Raja. Look, I, I can't disagree with you, Raja, on this. Obviously, if, if you're looking for the way it would work, it would be exactly as you laid out, right. V.J. edcomb is young enough that he's like, okay, I can defer for a little bit. I, I've got plenty of years left to, to be a star for me and Maxi to be splitting it up and, and, and we'll be the driving engine of this thing in, in a couple of years. I, I buy that. I buy that. Joel Embiid, I think, I don't think Embiid's given enough credit for being flexible at times, but he's also, he, he resorts to, to kind of some, some, you know, I Hate. I hate using the wor. The word selfish. But like, you could see it in Embiid. You saw it in, in that last playoff series against the Knicks. You saw it a little at times against Celtic, the Celtics. Like, he's going to dominate the ball sometimes in ways that aren't always healthy for his team and he's not as mobile as he once was. And they don't have another. They don't have a great option when he's not on the court at center and they don't have anybody for when he's out. So like, they do have a depth issue, I think. And I, and I do think they have a five guys who are all best with the ball in their hands issue. And a. Everybody's going to need to sacrifice concern. It doesn't mean it can't be worked out. Like there's, there's a best case scenario here, as Logan was saying, where the guys all, all do it. Especially when, you know, this is a short term thing. LeBron's going to play. Will he play even both years of this contract? The second year is, is his option. Right. So maybe just one year. And it's just like, let's just see what we can do if everybody just falls into place and does is exactly right. Like, that could be super potent. They could be super scary. That is on the table too. But even before LeBron got there, we were already wondering about like, the Jalen Brown fit fairly and especially after Jalen Brown spent once again a little bit of time on Twitch dumping on Joel Embiid for being a flopper. Now I always am in the first to say, like, NBA beefs are all pretty in the end. Guys can set that stuff aside when they become teammates. I never think like, ooh, these guys had words or, ooh, these guys even like, you know, you know, flagrant at each other. A couple built.
- [23:44]
Howard Beck
They got to talk to each other. It's how they're gonna be.
- [23:46]
Logan Murdoch
Yeah. How they're gonna be teammates. It works out. It works like they always figure it out. Right. So I'm not overly concerned about it, but I'm not dismissing that either. Right. And they've got some like, Jaylen Brown's a big personality and so is Joel Embiid, certainly. LeBron, Maxi, Edcom, I'm less concerned about on that level. But like, not, not for nothing, the, the coach isn't the easiest dude either, by the way.
- [24:11]
Howard Beck
Fair. It's a fair point. It's a fair point. Okay. I question for you though, Roger, because I was Thinking about this as he was talking. If you're LeBron James right now and you're going into that locker room, how do you feel like he is? What should he do in terms of, like, I'm going to each star and, like, you know, maybe not hat in hand, he's LeBron James, but, like, what is. What is his message to each star and what do you. What should he say and what do you think he's going. How you think he's going to approach this?
- [24:40]
Roger Bell
Yeah, I don't. I. I really don't think you have to say anything. I think, you know, most people who, who are in those locker rooms, whatever sport, they respond to your actions more than your words. So you go in there and you, and you. You get to work. You get to work and proven to people that their voices are valued, that you're not coming in there. And my way or the highway approach. I'm LeBron James. We're changing culturally. Everything we do. While I think ultimately what I said before is going to be true, he wants the responsibility and the leadership voice. You don't go in there just projecting it on everyone. From the start, you earn trust. Like, you have dialogue, you let dudes lead. You try to figure out in what spaces they lead the best, right? And then you figure out how you can accentuate that and how you can work around the edges of that to provide just the icing on the cake, if you will. Like, Jaylen Brown has to be afforded opportunity to breathe as a personality. You go in trying to stifle him from the jump. We got no action, boss. Like, do you know what I mean? I don't see it the same way for Maxi or Edgecomb, but, like, certainly Joel is, Is an interesting personality, right? Like, you're not going in there trying to teach these dudes to reinvent themselves or to turn them into something else. You watch, you listen, you go about that incredible work ethic that, that, that I witnessed. And he's always had you lead by example in that regard. And then you pick your moments, when necessary, to chime in, to add, to highlight. And when those efforts are successful, you earn equity with people. They start to trust you in that way. They know that you're not trying to change them and turn them into something different. Like, you're there to help them. And I think that's the message he has to get across in his actions, is, yo, do. I'm here to help. Like, I'm not. I'm not here. I'm here to help. You know, And I, I, I really do believe that a lot of what Howard said, because some of that's fair. But look, man, teams got to pick where they're at, like, and you get an opportunity, you bring Jaylen Brown in there. I was not one of the people that was worried about how Jaylen Brown fit with the Sixers personally. But you're in win now mode, so, like, all of that, hey, we got to give young stars, like, we're done with that. Like, we're trying to, we're trying to play ball, we're trying to win games. And if you get a shot at a LeBron to add to that, listen, you're in big boy basketball now, my boy. Like, I don't give a fuck what you want necessarily. Like, this is what we trying to do, and we need people to get on board with that. And I think LeBron, in the space of, of just helping the day to day dynamics in a locker room and what frictions might have existed with younger players or more volatile personalities, or just bigger personalities in general, I think he eases that. I think he's like WD40 for that shit. I think he just kind of goes in there and he greases the wheels. At least that's what I'm hoping he does. That's what I saw him do, you know, when I was around him.
- [27:42]
Howard Beck
Another thing I wanted to add to that and ask you this question, Raja. There's LeBron James, the person that needs to, you know, figure out his leadership, but there's also the LeBron James, the business coming to Philadelphia, right? We all know about, you know, how Rich Paul does business, right? We all know about how the clutch is. And a lot of this also was like an organization, one that they already have a relationship with, that klutz does. And then also an organization that is a little bit more minimal to be like, hey, come on in. Like, you are, you know, our partner in this. How does, with the clutch element, how do they figure their way through this? What's the best way that they should do it? Because we've seen how that has affected other teams in the past, right? Just them being in the building.
- [28:31]
Roger Bell
Yeah, it's a good question, man. And, you know, I haven't been around them for a long time, so I don't know how they kind of quote unquote, move around an organization. It's been years and years and years and people, you know, mature and styles change and like, you learn, you live and you learn. So I, what I would say, though, so I can't really speak to how they do it and how that's going to fit. What I would say is, if it's going to work, I think LeBron needs to. And this is just my personal opinion, take it for what it's worth. You need to divest yourself from that. Like, you need that. You need to make it clear that there's a line, a clear one, between yourself and the business entities that exist and that you were here for. For the team.
- [29:15]
Howard Beck
Let.
- [29:16]
Roger Bell
Let the. Let the business be the business. But it's independent of me right now. Like, these next two years are me as a Philadelphia 76er, trying to win a championship.
- [29:26]
Howard Beck
Yeah.
- [29:26]
Roger Bell
And to whatever degree you can, because you're never gonna, like, you know, it's your business, dude. Like, obviously, your career's coming to an end sooner than later. Like, it's unrealistic to think you're just going to let go of the rope on those things. But you. I think you have to keep it really, really, really clean. So everyone there knows what. What the priority is. And quite frankly, it's them.
- [29:49]
Howard Beck
Yeah.
- [29:50]
Roger Bell
Right. And. And I just think that that's a. That's the way they should approach that.
- [29:54]
Howard Beck
I don't think. I don't think I will say this, and I want to get your opinion on this after I say this. Raja, I think that the shit that he was pulling in LA and not really ingratiating himself in Los Angeles, he can't pull that in a state, in a city like Philly, bro. He cannot do that. He needs to fully submit himself to that fan base and organization because they could see right through that. Am I. Am I on one or. You know the city better than I do, but that is the feeling that I am getting. Like, you cannot play with their emotions like that. It's not going to work out for you.
- [30:26]
Roger Bell
Let this serve as a warning for. For LeBron. Like, you are beloved, homie. Like, you know, you've been in some fan bases, King and all of that. I'm a motherfucking fan. But don't get this shit twisted. If you go into Philly and are on some bullshit and are not what they want you to be, you don't always have to win there. You just have to be on what they respect.
- [30:53]
Howard Beck
Yeah.
- [30:54]
Roger Bell
Like, you got to be on that kind of time. And if they fuck with you like that, you're good.
- [30:59]
Howard Beck
If.
- [31:00]
Roger Bell
Pictures with Freeway.
- [31:01]
Howard Beck
We need some pictures with Freeway. We need you to like it. We need. We need some pictures with beans. We need you to go on the podcast with Wallowing them. We need you to really lock in.
- [31:11]
Roger Bell
Yeah, but if you're not. Yes, if you're not, Whatever that means to you. But if you're not living those raps right, and you talking out of both sides of your neck and you know that fan base really does sift through that really well. And never thought Santa would get booed. Do you understand what I'm saying to you? Like, people ain't think Destiny's Child was going to get booed like you, you. They will. That fan base. I don't think Miami's got the heart to do that. Like, I, I live in Miami. Like, Miami's fan base don't have a heart to turn on you like that. And just. And, and be like, they don't have that energy. Philly does not care, dogs. So, like, that would just be my little thing. Don't step incorrectly.
- [31:56]
Howard Beck
Yo, Howard, what do you think that, that just. Even that dynamic that we're speaking about, how do you think that that is going to adjust how LeBron moves or how he should move? Because I'm with Raja, like, he cannot go with that in a place like Philly. It's not going to work, bro. They see right through that and then they're going to tell it to you to your face.
- [32:17]
Logan Murdoch
I think the unfortunate part of this is that you're analyzing this through. We are viewing this collectively through the lens of what happened the last several years in la. He walked into LA as a champion, four time champion in his late prime to Kobe Bryant's old team.
- [32:38]
Howard Beck
Kobe Bryant passes too. Kobe Bryant passes away during this stretch, which brings a whole nother dynamic too.
- [32:44]
Logan Murdoch
But when, for sure. But when he got there, it was still. LeBron had outshined or overshadowed Kobe. For the latter stages of their overlapping careers. There were big debates about who was better. For the longest time, it was harder for LA to embrace him. And so like, that was a two way street. You can talk about what LeBron's conduct should be or should have been, but part of that was just like almost an impossible situation where LA was never going to embrace him in the same way that, say, Miami did the day he walked through the door there with no championships and nobody to really overshadow because it would have been Dwayne Wade. But Dwayne Wade's the one who invited him in. That was his buddy. It was just different in LA because. Because of the Kobe thing. And so in this, this last move, this last stage, this last chapter, going to Philly effectively as a mercenary with no Ties whatsoever to the city, to the franchise, to any of these players necessarily. Is there even a clutch client? Is Maxi a clutch client?
- [33:45]
Howard Beck
Maxi's a clutch client.
- [33:47]
Logan Murdoch
So there's. At least. All right, so there's one. Flimsy.
- [33:49]
Howard Beck
And they're good with the gm, too. They're good with the GM as well.
- [33:52]
Logan Murdoch
All right, cool. Whatever.
- [33:54]
Roger Bell
Who's that? Gansey.
- [33:56]
Howard Beck
Mike Gany.
- [33:57]
Roger Bell
Gany, yeah. Gans, Ohio. Yes, sir.
- [34:00]
Logan Murdoch
But. But those are. Those are fairly flimsy ties compared to what he did when he went to Miami or went back to Cleveland or what he would have had if he went to Golden State. Like, so, like, it really.
- [34:13]
Howard Beck
I'm gonna challenge you a little bit on this, though. I'm gonna challenge you this. On this way, because you're saying, like, he also came to LA as an outsider, right? And the fact is, he did you. You ain't got no stories of LeBron other than the Drew League stuff, which was kind of staged. You didn't really get no stories out of la like, yo, Brian and Watts kicking it. You know what I'm saying? Or Braun is. Is. Is in such a. Not like. Not in that environment necessarily, but you didn't get, like, yo, he isn't really ingratiating himself into Los Angeles like that. You really didn't get that. And I think you gotta be.
- [34:46]
Logan Murdoch
Philly, he's a billionaire. He's a billionaire who's playing the last year or two, but it's always been 41.
- [34:54]
Howard Beck
It's always been, I'm LeBron. Everywhere he's been, and you guys are here.
- [35:00]
Logan Murdoch
He.
- [35:01]
Howard Beck
That can't. That just cannot work in Philly. Right? Like, and I'm not saying that he needs to be, like, outside smoking hookah and just being, like, in the streets. What I'm saying, though, is he just needs to. Philly needs to know that he's one of us. And in the Lakers, he never did that. In la, he never. He. He kind of did it in Miami. But, like, he never. He hasn't only done that in Cleveland. That's only place he has done. And I get it, that's close to home.
- [35:26]
Roger Bell
But.
- [35:26]
Howard Beck
But, like, the market of Philly, he has to. I'm telling you, he has to do it.
- [35:31]
Logan Murdoch
Part of his big theme in going back to Cleveland and. Or as he framed it, Northeast Ohio, so that he could encompass Cleveland and Akron and everywhere else was to say, because I want to be uplifting. Right? That was the. The essay that he had in Sports Illustrated, as told to Lee Jenkins. He wanted to, like, Lift up the community. And you know, I think it was during the second tour there that he, that he launched the school. Right. Maybe he did a bunch of. But he did, do, you know, things in the community there that were meaningful in part because he had roots there and he had, he felt an obligation to do so. So to your point, there are various ways of showing what you're talking about and one of them would be to maybe invest a little bit in Philly, however that may manifest. Right. And so I, I don't know that you do that when you're only there on a two year deal that could only, that might even only end up being one year. It's, it's, it's so temporary, it's so mercenary that in a way maybe, maybe your argument's negated by the idea that everybody, everybody on all sides understands. Right. Philly doesn't have to buy into him or him buy into them in any meaningful deep way because it's like we're just all along for the ride welcome here. We can't wait to see what you do with Joelle and Jalen and Tyrese and Vijay. Cool. Let's go win a championship. But this is going to be purely transactional between him and the fans there. I like. I. It's. We. It's temp. The temporariness of his.
- [36:55]
Howard Beck
Got to be that. Yeah, you right.
- [36:56]
Logan Murdoch
The temporariness is, is built in. The, the, the lack of depth of the, of the bond between LeBron and this market is built in because of how old he is and because how short the contract is. And it's obvious what he's there for. When he went to la, it was like he's going to be there for the long haul. We thought it might be his last chapter.
- [37:14]
Podcast Sponsor/Host
Yeah.
- [37:14]
Logan Murdoch
And to your point, if he never really invested emotionally.
- [37:18]
Howard Beck
My thing is with LeBron, though, it's always, it's all with business. Right. And it doesn't. He don't let nobody or no fan base other than Northeast Ohio just love him like that. And I just feel like that's, that's just a debt. Were you gonna say, Roger?
- [37:29]
Roger Bell
I don't. Yeah, I don't think I kind of agree with Howard. I don't think that he has to do anything to ingratiate himself to the city of Philadelphia to be accepted. Like, just don't fuck it up. Just, just. Yeah, just don't fuck it up. Just don't go in there. Like, forgive the Hollywood, but just don't go in there with any Hollywood vibes and and have them feel like this didn't work because of those Hollywood vibes. And I think there's a very, very, very slim chance that that happens. Like, I'm not, I don't think he's built like that and I don't think that's what he's going to be on. But like, as long as you don't do that to them in, in this like year or two, I think you're fine. You just go in there and, and what they want to feel is that you're present.
- [38:14]
Howard Beck
Yeah, they don't.
- [38:15]
Roger Bell
You, you ain't got to be out like on south street or like down
- [38:18]
Howard Beck
in North Philly, present. I mean, present.
- [38:21]
Roger Bell
You just. Yeah, like they want to know that you're there. They, they don't. I don't think Philly wants to see you like on any off day, like
- [38:30]
Howard Beck
happen in New York all the time.
- [38:31]
Logan Murdoch
Yeah, I don't.
- [38:32]
Roger Bell
Yeah, dog, they want to know that you're there. And I mean this like, and, and the time. You, you ain't lied, Howard. Like the, the, the, that little bit of time potentially is not going to give them enough of a Runway for maybe that stuff to wear on them in the way that it would hypothetically if it was a three year thing. But the point is those would be the things that would like, they want to know that, that you are in this with them and if you are putting forth the genuine effort all the time with them. Like, they respect that, dog. Like they're, they, they are, they're a city that respects that shit. Like you ain't. Like they would prefer you to win, but, but if they can feel your fight, I mean, this is corny as fuck, but like Rocky, like if they can feel the fight, if they can feel the spirit, like you're safe and
- [39:15]
Howard Beck
it can't be staged neither. Right? It can't just be stage all the time.
- [39:19]
Roger Bell
No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
- [39:21]
Logan Murdoch
But again, we don't want him like eating a cheese steak next to the Rocky statue and that'll be like that,
- [39:28]
Howard Beck
you know, like it can't be stage. They, I feel like Philly just sees
- [39:31]
Roger Bell
right through this is not. Look, Miami is that market for sure. Like, you know, LA is la, dog. Like those cities respond to different things. Like North, Northeast, Ohio isn't necessarily like that. But like, but, but Philly is certainly not like that. So. But I think it goes hand in hand with what you asked me about how he should approach. Hey bro, just, just go in there and, and, and start leading by example. Yo, like, if you do that, which I expect him to fully expect him to do, you're going to be fine with them. And then, you know, you let the chips fall where they may in terms of how you guys, you know, develop as a team, and the chemistry and the depth, which is a. Which is a valid point, like all of those things, tbd. But if you go in there on the. On that type of time with them, I think you're good.
- [40:14]
Logan Murdoch
There is an analogy here on. On multiple levels, including the one that Logan was just highlighting. In 2003, when Carl Malone and Gary Payton decided to join the Lakers, there were all the concerns about, are there enough balls to go around? Is it too many stars, too many egos, all of this stuff? And Carl Malone had been a hated rival. Carl Malone and John Stockton had swept the Lakers and knocked them out a couple of times in the postseason earlier in the Shaq and Kobe era. So it's not like LA was, like, ready to hug Karl Malone or Gary Payton. And Payton had been a rival, too, all the years in Seattle. And not the cuddliest of guys. Like, good dude, but, like, not as a. As a player. Right. A lot, you know, trash talk.
- [40:58]
Howard Beck
If you. If you talk too much about Gary Payton like that, I'm gonna go, Raja, when you talk about Westbrook, just like, I'm just saying, you know what I'm saying? Lightly, brother.
- [41:06]
Logan Murdoch
Settle down, Oakland. Settle down. Gary Payton was like a guy who wouldn't use your opponent. You're kind of like, eh. So Peyton and Malone come to the Lakers. Laker fans embrace them to the extent that they thought they could help Shaq and Kobe win a championship again after losing in 2003. Right? And, man, if Carmelo, I've always said it. If Carmelo doesn't go down in. In early December of that season on a freak accident, who knows how that would have gone. The fact that he missed a big chunk of the season with a knee injury that never really healed really kind of sunk them, but they were just kicking the. Out of everybody for the first, like six, seven weeks of that season.
- [41:43]
Howard Beck
Like 18 and two or something like that. Something.
- [41:45]
Logan Murdoch
Something crazy. It worked incredibly well until it didn't. But in large part because Carmelo was kind of the fulcrum there. Like, without him, Shaq and Kobe started going at each other again. Gary Payton was like in and out of. Of of of the whole thing because he didn't like playing the triangle. So he and Phil clashed. But LA didn't need to really embrace Carl Malone for them to appreciate what he brought to the table. And. And Carl Malone, like, humbled himself on. In that. In the context of that team usage rate, way down right field goal attempts, way down was the. Was the perfect guy between Shaq and Kobe, in part to keep them from killing each other, but in part also as. As just a complimentary guy. He made himself a role player at that last stage of his career. So it's. It's not impossible, but it still does. Like, even when I look back on that, I still. I still think of it as more transactional than anything in terms of how the fans and the city and the. And the player, in this case Malone, like, you know, interact with each other. Right. The Bonds aren't going to be that deep. They were never going to be that deep because Karl was going to be there for a year or two at most. And same with Peyton. And as it turned out, neither of them was there more than a year. But I think that's the best analogy on all levels here for how the LeBron Philly thing could go.
- [42:58]
Howard Beck
Yeah, for sure. Take a quick break. I want to talk really quickly just about a number of things, but the other teams involved and what it means that LeBron didn't go there for each team. So on the other side of the break. Okay, we're back. I want to go over the teams that didn't get LeBron. I'm just going to throw them out there. We'll just talk it through and then we'll go from there. The Minnesota Timberwolves, what does this say about their operation right now that LeBron didn't go there?
- [43:27]
Roger Bell
Roger Bell. Yeah, I never saw him going to Min. I don't. I think. I think I said it out loud, but I never saw him going to, like, Minnesota. No disrespect to Minnesota, but I never saw that as a market that I would see LeBron playing in. I. I just think it says. Probably what it says about most of these teams is like, he didn't see their roster build as one that got him to where he wanted to be in terms of competing for a championship in the next year, maybe to the Western Conference. Certainly has something to do with that. But, yeah, I think the workload that he would have been asked, you know, to undertake there might have been. Might have been maybe too high at times. I think he's smart enough to know what level he's got to be asked to play at every night to be sustainable in the playoffs. And I think maybe there, it was going to be a Little too high. So yeah, I think that's what it says. Backcourts relatively young, maybe some harder pieces to, to lead. I, you know, so he wasn't trying
- [44:40]
Howard Beck
to deal, he wasn't trying to deal with all that stuff.
- [44:42]
Roger Bell
Yeah, I'm putting words in his mouth like, I don't know, but I'm just like, you know, that that's what I would say.
- [44:47]
Howard Beck
Howard,
- [44:49]
Logan Murdoch
Minnesota seemed such a, like such a weird, far fetched possibility the whole time, if it was a possibility at all. I, my first reaction is that they still need a power forward, right? Like they salary dumped Julius Randall, they swept swap Nas Reed for Lamelo ball because they thought, you know, we need another ball handler, creator, scorer type in the backcourt. And they did all that banking on the idea that they were going to somehow backfill at power forward with a cheaper option. And right now they still don't have. So LeBron could have filled that. I never really thought that was going to happen. But yeah, the Timberwolves still have some work to do.
- [45:24]
Howard Beck
Golden State Warriors, Roger Bell,
- [45:28]
Roger Bell
Too old, dude. Like, I don't, you know, Western. What I mean, look, it would have been dope. I would have liked to see that. But, but you're again, you're in the Western Conference, you're dealing with teams that are youthful, that are like energetic, athletic, long, rangy. And then quite frankly, I'm going to be honest with you, LeBron's never played in a system that is someone else centric. And I know what you're going to say to me. Well, you just said he was complimentary to Luka. Like he was, he was. But that's a, what Steph and them do is a very, very unique, like very, very unique style of play in terms of, you know, we're doing everything we can to spring him for shots and then everyone else is eating off of that. Luka and them are like playing a lot of pick and roll, you know, like you're standing around, it's more conventional. I don't think he's ever played anything like that. And I'm not saying it, it stopped him from going there. But I think if you're looking at a place that you're going to try to flourish for the last couple of years, that had to go into the thought process. So between that, you know, not really seeing a real viable path in the Eastern Conference. I mean, in the Western Conference, sorry, With, with the, with the roster, the age of it, I think those were probably things that stuck out the most.
- [46:43]
Howard Beck
My thing, man, you didn't do shit. You didn't do anything this off season. You did nothing. We always talked about. Sean just reported that this. The Sixers thing only became a possibility because they traded for Jalen Brown. You have to try. Like, you. You can't just say, yo, man, you know, we got Draymond, and we got. You know, Steph is. Is. Is here. He's 38 years old, but we got these guys. Huh? What are. Like, LeBron is like, okay, well, what else? Right? Like, I. There's that component of it also. I believe this to be true, and I've said this on this podcast before. I've lived here my whole life. He would not be able to be LeBron James here under this. Under. Under the team aspect, under this region. It just would not have worked out. And I know there were a lot of people that. That. That, you know, within the front office that wanted him. But also. And to add to that point, them pursuing LeBron in the way that they did with nothing that they had with. With. Not with their. With their roster. Baron is really indicative of the last few years for them, right? The fact that they're in this desperate position to be like, hey, we're just going to, like. I guess we're just going to go try to pick up LeBron James, and we have nothing to like, offer him other than, like, great weather and golf courses. Bro, he wants to win. He wants to win, bro. Like, you guys used to want to win, too. I don't know what the fuck is going on anymore, but you guys used to want to win. But there was all that combination, I feel like led to LeBron ultimately not picking the warriors because they didn't actually try.
- [48:14]
Logan Murdoch
Can't believe you're disrespecting Yoxel Lundborg. Lindeborg. I can't even pronounce his last name. How does dare you disrespect Yaxel?
- [48:21]
Howard Beck
Good dude. Good dude. I've interacted with him a couple.
- [48:25]
Logan Murdoch
Yeah. After you just wrote a whole story based on him out of summer league.
- [48:28]
Howard Beck
Yeah, good dude. But he ain't. He, you know, Come on, come on, come on, Howard.
- [48:33]
Logan Murdoch
I.
- [48:33]
Howard Beck
He would say.
- [48:33]
Logan Murdoch
I'm just gonna say that. I'm just gonna say. I got two things to say about the warriors thing. One, it's people pretend like they didn't go out and get Jimmy Butler. Like, I know they got him for cheap, and then he got hurt, but they were really good with Jimmy Butler when he was healthy, and then he got hurt. If Jimmy Butler's healthy, Going into next season, if he never blows out his. Wait, Achilles knee. What was it? Knee. If Jimmy Butler's healthy, does LeBron assess them differently? I don't know. Maybe he still goes, hey, man, Howard,
- [49:02]
Howard Beck
it was a fifth. Me and Raja and you would be faded right now. I'm just saying there's other teams that have actually just that even with injuries that have made moves here.
- [49:11]
Logan Murdoch
I'm just saying we know how hard it is to make moves in the NBA. I'm not trying to let them off the hook, but, like, it's super freaking hard right now, especially when you still have guys like the Steph and Draymond making what they're making in a Second Apron era. Like, everybody's kind of locked up. Like, there's a reason. Like, we're talking about Minnesota is like, oh, they made this. This big, bold move, but we still don't know if they're actually better for it because they ended up having to, like. Part of it was financial. They dumped two power forwards and got one point guard back. Like, they're. They are fundamentally different. And it's an example of how difficult it is to maneuver once you have maxed out. Look, the Knicks aren't even celebrating a championship right now if not for the second apron. That's how they got Carl Anthony Towns.
- [49:47]
Howard Beck
Well, but what I. What I think, though, like, I. I feel what you're saying, but I. When I say LeBron pursuit and the way they pursued him is a symptom of a bigger problem. They don't. They actually aren't willing and dealing. This is the wheel and deal at
- [50:02]
Logan Murdoch
deal injured, who knows?
- [50:04]
Howard Beck
They. They need to. They need to figure that out.
- [50:06]
Logan Murdoch
Who they training to get this big upgrade?
- [50:08]
Howard Beck
No, but this is part of the discussion, though. I. This is what I'm saying, though, about Golden State, like, this is like, the overall, like, symptom of it. What I'm saying, though, is, like, you had years and years, okay? Like, another team in this current Apron era, they going to trade Draymond Green. They're going to get some real assets. They're going to actually be a little bit more savvy. They're actually going to, you know, do certain things before in order to entice LeBron James to get there. Right? Like, that's kind of what Philly did. Right? That's what I'm more of. What I'm saying is that it was a little too late to will and deal at this particular point, but years and years, they need to figure some stuff out. And even with the Jimmy Butler thing like that. This is when, like, you have to be creative and just be like. Because you have Steph Curry only for a finite amount of time, you can't just be like, oh man. Well, we tried, I guess, like you actually have to do in this particular era. And I don't think that they did a lot of doing.
- [51:00]
Logan Murdoch
Look, I said it in real time at the time and you guys know this. Although a lot of this was before we were doing this podcast together, I said from the beginning they should have never used the draft picks that became Wiseman, Moody and Kaminga. They should have been trading all those picks to get immediate help. And had they done that, then if those were at least, you know, youngish or mid career guys, they, they would have been in better shape along the way. They held onto the picks, they used the picks, the picks didn't work out.
- [51:23]
Howard Beck
Here we are.
- [51:24]
Logan Murdoch
But as it stands the last couple of years now, it's really hard because of who they have and the salaries that they're making. They, they committed, it seems, to, to, to not trading an injured Jimmy Butler as some sort of kind of like, you know, courtesy to him or honoring his, his wishes. Who knows? The bottom line is this, like, they get LeBron, they become a lot more interesting than they already were. And who knows? Puncher's chance, Everybody's healthy next April, May, yada, yada, yada. Cool. Without LeBron, they're back where they've been this whole time. Hope that Jim. Jimmy Butler gets healthy quickly, hope that Moses Moody gets back quickly, and let's see if they can make any other moves around the margins. But like, there's just not a lot of maneuverability there. They do have picks to, to deal with. They've got some young guys, but like, there's not a lot there that's going to entice other teams to like, give up a really significant player, you know, and they got Jimmy Butler for a song at the time, so, you know, they're just kind of stuck. But this is what happens with aging dynasties, as, as you know, Steve Kerr has called them. Look, but this is what happens with them. You, you still have guys making superstar money who are not as effective late in their careers, and it makes it hard to maneuver. And those guys aren't easy to deal either. What do you think they were going to get for Draymond Green if they traded him a couple of seconds? Like, they weren't going to get something significant. They might have gotten some cat, some cap relief, to your point, but Yeah, I don't know.
- [52:47]
Roger Bell
But.
- [52:47]
Howard Beck
But like, when you got stuff on the roster, man, you have. Like you.
- [52:50]
Logan Murdoch
I know I've said this, I've said that a million times about Steph, about LeBron, whatever. You are obligated to be all in all the time. And I do think there are questions about that at times, but as they are right now at the tail end, I think this is a less of a significant argument than it was maybe five years ago when they were using draft picks that they should have swapped.
- [53:08]
Howard Beck
Fair point. What about the Miami Heat? Raja Bell, our intrepid. Our intrepid South Florida reporter.
- [53:16]
Roger Bell
Just not an. I mean, not enough. Not enough like there. If you're going to go to the Eastern Conference, first of all, I think you're, you know, you'd be a little naive if you didn't think there. There. There were feelings, at least at some level, that remained from the last time he was here. Like, I'm sure, you know, time heals all wounds and whatnot, but, like, come on, man, we. We forgive. We never forget, right? So, like, there are a little bit of that, but, like, just as a roster, like, completely on the basketball front, like, I think there's a much clearer path in the same conference in Philadelphia than there was here in Miami. You're. You're big. And I like. I mean, I like the start of it, you know, but, like, that's a lot of people in the paint. You know, you'd have to play a certain style. Yeah, I think when he looked at that, he saw a much clearer picture in. In Philly. And then you add to just the history of it, and I think it was. It was, in retrospect, probably going to be Philly or. Or Cleveland more so than Miami Howard.
- [54:16]
Howard Beck
Do you believe Pat Riley when he says everything is patched up with him and LeBron James when he does an interview in the middle of free agency as he's trying to actively recruit LeBron James?
- [54:28]
Logan Murdoch
I'm not sure it matters. LeBron's gonna make a. Whatever's decision is best for him, regardless. You don't play for the team president. He's not in the locker room every day. He's not the coach. I think we overestimate the importance of a player slash GM relationship or player team president. It doesn't really matter that much. If LeBron wanted to play Miami badly enough, wanted to play with Giannis, wanted to play for Spoelstra again, wanted to play with Bam Adebayo and whoever the heck is still on that roster. Then he would have.
- [54:58]
Howard Beck
It's thin. It's thin right now.
- [55:00]
Logan Murdoch
And the relationship with Riley wouldn't have mattered. And. And maybe they have patched it up. Like, listen, look, Dan Gilbert said some of, like, the most petty ass we've ever seen come from a team owner. Not the president, but the freaking owner of the team. The guy who writes the pay, that writes the checks. Dan Gilbert was. Was way out of line back in 2010, and LeBron went back four years later. So I don't. Again, NBA beefs, whether it's player, player, player owner, player GM, what, whatever. Like, everything could be patched up if. If everybody wants the same thing. So I don't care about that part of it. I do think Raj already hit it. Like, you got Giannis, you got Bam. And even that's an awkward fit. What else you got? And how are you gonna fill out the rest of that roster if LeBron's there? So that. That one never felt that viable to me either. And yeah, they're in a really tough spot right now.
- [55:51]
Howard Beck
Like, where do they go from here? Right? This is another version of like, a couple years ago. Milwaukee Bucks. Right. Like, it's just an odd fit of a roster there, I think a bit more well coached, but it's pretty much the same situation for honest, with a better. They're better big alongside of them.
- [56:08]
Roger Bell
They. They are, but they're. They're better at. At identifying, I think, and finding those. Those kind of margin Vincent players in the picks. Yeah, they're, you know, they're. The player development. Like, I think. I think I would trust them more if this wasn't a finished product. If you were like, hey, you pick a place, neither one of them is a finished product, and you trust them to get you there. If you said Milwaukee or Miami, I think I'm taking Miami.
- [56:31]
Howard Beck
Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so we get out of here. What does it say about Cleveland? Howard? Wow.
- [56:39]
Logan Murdoch
He couldn't even say it with a straight face.
- [56:42]
Howard Beck
James Harden paid. That's cool. That's what's up, I think.
- [56:46]
Logan Murdoch
Yeah. Listen, man, I think after seeing. And granted, the Knicks were on like, the heater of all heaters, so maybe unfair to judge any of the teams that they just beat the living snot out of in that playoff run. But, like, after watching the last vestiges of whatever it is that the Cavaliers are just get smoked and humiliated in that series, it's hard to believe in anything they're doing. Maybe LeBron watched and saw the same thing and went like, wait, you want me to sign up with. Yeah, so no, I, I, I don't know, ma'. Am. I've never had much faith in James Harden. He's only going to, he's just another year older now. You got Donovan Mitchell, you got Evan Mobley, who's, who seemingly has plateaued. Jared Allen's still there. What do they, you know, what have they done? What can they do? I don't know. I'm looking at these standings and just thinking like, the Pistons are still going to be really, really good. The Celtics, for whatever we want, might want to say about the Jalen Brown, Paul George swap are still going to be really, really good as long as Jason Tatum is back to 100. The Knicks are defending champs and are going to be great. And all they lost was Mitchell Robinson. Like, where the, where are the Cavs fitting into all of this?
- [57:55]
Howard Beck
I'll answer that really quickly before I get to the next season. Like, where's Philly in the Eastern Conference?
- [57:59]
Logan Murdoch
Well, I'm penciling them in as a top four team right off the bat. That' that's at minimum. Right? So Detroit, Boston, New York and Philly are probably the top four. And Cleveland, Atlanta, Orlando, Charlotte, Miami are all in the chase. And Toronto, but like Easter Conference is
- [58:16]
Howard Beck
kind of lit right now. Man, if the Kawhi thing goes through and they go to the Raptors, it's
- [58:20]
Logan Murdoch
a, if, if Kawhi.
- [58:22]
Howard Beck
It's a lot of great 4:30. It's a lot of great 4:30 starts
- [58:25]
Logan Murdoch
on the west coast right before, before the entire nation of Canada gets pissed off that I didn't put Toronto in there. Like, let's see what happens with the Kawhi deal. And if Kawhi is a Toronto Raptor when we're potting in October and doing our season preview stuff or yeah, like, at that, at that point we'll reassess. But as of right now, I think Detroit, Boston, New York and Philly is, is probably the class of the East.
- [58:50]
Howard Beck
Okay.
- [58:51]
Roger Bell
Yeah.
- [58:51]
Howard Beck
Yeah. Okay. What do you think about the, what does it say about Cleveland? LeBron didn't go. And where do you see the Sixers in the Eastern Conference?
- [59:01]
Roger Bell
Yeah, I think the Sixers are a top three team in the Eastern Conference, and I'm doing that out of respect for, for, for a few things that happened in the regular season last year. But like, I really think they're going to be really strong in the Eastern Conference. What it says about Cleveland, to me, I mean, first of all, I think if you look at their roster, you plug him in a lot of times, like, naturally kind of more at the three than you do at the four. And, and, you know, the four, I think, especially now in his career, is where. Where he's going to make most of his impact. I think they needed more offense than maybe Philly does on paper, out of him, like, more production. And again, if. If I was telling you about Minnesota, and I think, you know, these are conversations you're having is like, how much do I have to produce on a nightly basis for us to be the type of team we want to be? And then, you know, does that fit with me being able to be viable in the playoffs? I think Cleveland was going to ask more out of him. And then I said before, you know, there. There's. It's a lot. When he's in Cleveland, it's a lot. There's a lot going on. There's a lot pulling at you that isn't. And I don't mean, like family and friends. I mean just legacy, the general, everything. And there's an amount of bandwidth that. That extracts from you, you know, that you can't really quantify, but you have to think about it when you're deciding whether or not you go back. I think that was a part of it. And then lastly, I'd just say you left there bringing them a championship, and it was beautiful, like, hey, bro, you came back, did what you said you were going to do, and then everybody was like, cool. And, you know, there's a part of me that likes it like that. You know, I don't know that he felt that sentiment, but, like, there's a part of me, like, don't, you know, go back, and who knows how it ends? You know, like, you left that doing and telling them you were going to get something done, and you got it done. And so, you know, I don't know, but, like, that's. That's kind of the way my mind wraps around it.
- [61:05]
Howard Beck
And where are the Sixers in these? Oh, you said. You said top three.
- [61:08]
Roger Bell
Oh, yeah. Top three. Top three. Like, I'd say top two. I. I mean, I. I honestly, I think they're a top two team in the Eastern Conference right now.
- [61:14]
Howard Beck
Okay.
- [61:14]
Logan Murdoch
It's Philly. Philly in New York, to be clear. Roger.
- [61:17]
Roger Bell
Yeah. Yes.
- [61:17]
Howard Beck
Yeah.
- [61:18]
Roger Bell
Correct.
- [61:18]
Logan Murdoch
All right.
- [61:19]
Howard Beck
Speaking of New York, I want to be an asshole to Howard before I
- [61:21]
Logan Murdoch
get out of here.
- [61:22]
Howard Beck
The. With the New York Knicks. You know, Rich Ball said that if they didn't win the title, he would be going to New York. What do you. You can take that with a Grain of salt. Who knows, right? But if I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm a humor him. If he were to go to New York this summer and they didn't win a championship, like, what would that, what do you think that would have looked like? And I'm gonna obviously get Roger's response, but I want to get yours first.
- [61:46]
Logan Murdoch
The hypothetical is the Knicks don't win the championship in June and, and LeBron has just decided to join them now.
- [61:52]
Howard Beck
Yep. Cause that's what he said. That's what Rich Ball said he was going to do. Yeah,
- [61:59]
Logan Murdoch
it would have been interesting because a lot of Knicks fans felt pretty burned by him in 2010 because he spent an entire season teasing New York. He wore a Yankees hat. He had a quote about like, you know, summer 2010 is going to be really big for New York or whatever. Like, he was s, he was dropping all these hints. And then when he, when, when word leaked that he was doing the decision at the Boys and Girls Club in Connecticut, like just an hour outside of the city or less, and then it was like, oh, that means he's coming to New York. He's setting up outside of New York for a reason. And so, yeah, so Knicks fans felt pretty burned back then. And so like, the idea of like making a run at him then and there, there must have been another run at him at some point during his free agencies after that. And then to have him come in at the end at age 41 and a half at a time when, let's say they didn't make the Finals, but it was back to back conference finals, or maybe they lost to the spurs in the finals. And it's like now you're, oh, you didn't want us when you were in your prime. You didn't want to come here when we really needed you and play with Amari Stoudemire or whatever. But now you're going to come here all these years later after we've already built it back up kind of organically. Like, I don't know, like, I don't want to speak for Knicks fans because I'm not a Knicks fan. It's, I, I, I don't know. I have not pulled my friends in, in the group chat, but I, I could ask. I, I don't think it would have been like a full. You're the one who's, who's talked a lot on this show today about whether the fans are embracing you and the relationship with the city and the, the connection or lack thereof, and how that's going to feel. I think it would have felt really, really weird if they, like, lose to the spurs in six, and then LeBron's like, I'm joining the Knicks. Like, I don't know. It would have been strange, but basketball wise, he'd have been a great fit, no question. And he'd play for Mike Brown, who he's played for before.
- [63:51]
Howard Beck
What do you think, Roger?
- [63:53]
Roger Bell
Yeah, I mean, I think Howard. Howard said it best. Could be weird. Could be weird, but he would have been a fit. We covered that on the, on the, On a show. I don't know how far back, but he would have been. He would have been certainly a fit. Yeah, I, I, you know, market, I think. Yeah, I don't know. He would have fit in.
- [64:14]
Howard Beck
You saw him at the Jay Z show, you saw him at the Mijayz shows. He was fitting right into New York.
- [64:19]
Roger Bell
They have an established culture, though.
- [64:22]
Howard Beck
Yeah.
- [64:22]
Roger Bell
You know, like, they haven't established. Like, there's some things about them that I don't see the. I don't see the same. I, I don't. I don't mean to say there's a void in Philly at all, but there's more room in Philly, if that makes sense, for.
- [64:36]
Howard Beck
For oxygen for him.
- [64:38]
Roger Bell
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, like, would it. Yeah, he'd be great on the court. And I'm not saying he wouldn't fit, but. But I think it's a better fit also.
- [64:46]
Howard Beck
We could see him now that he's in Philly. He can be in the Garden maybe 15 times this season, which would be awesome now that he's back in these two. You know what I mean? Yeah, Howard. Yeah, Howard. Get ready to go to the Garden. But it's. It's gonna be. It's gonna be great, man. And this pod was great. This was just so unexpected. This is actually our season finale, ladies and gentlemen. What a hell of a season finale. Do we have to read everything?
- [65:11]
Logan Murdoch
The entire release now? Do we need a new release post?
- [65:16]
Howard Beck
No, no, no, no.
- [65:17]
Roger Bell
We don't know.
- [65:18]
Howard Beck
No, we don't. No. Because also the good thing, though, about the release. Real quick, go listen to the release. You got all summer to listen to them. But the good thing about that is Raja hedged all of his takes within the release. If you actually listen to it, right? Like, he already on the cell. No, remember, you talk about the Celtics. You were like, oh, okay, yeah, they up, right? They still fucked up, right? LeBron. We, you know, we talked a little about it. He's still OG of the year, so I don't see what would necessarily change. And then we updated it the next day you we have for the weekend. Our real ones are fed, the streets are fed. They get the reallys and then. Or they get this and they go back and get the really show. We got it for the summer. Got it on lock. On lock. That's been another edition of real one. Summer edition 2026. We out all the shits. Bye,
- [66:31]
Roger Bell
Sam.