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The Ringer NBA Show
Luka Gets Revenge in Dallas. Plus, an In-Depth MVP Debate and Individual Awards Picks. | Group Chat
01:26:30
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- [00:00]
Justin Varier
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- [01:49]
Rob Mahoney
Foreign.
- [02:00]
Justin Varier
Hello and welcome to Group Chat. I am Justin Varier and joining me, Rob Mahoney. Big was a lot on the docket today, gentlemen. We got all of our awards pick mvp, maybe talk some Denver nuggets try to parse through some of the chaos there. But we have to start with the big news from yesterday because Rob was in Dallas for the big game last night. Rob, tell us about what everyone's talking about and I of course mean Najee Marshall, starting at point guard for the.
- [02:27]
Wosny Lambre
Dallas Mavericks as he rightly should be one of their best players. Someone who honestly as we're going to talk through awards today, I really wanted to get on my most improved ballot. Love Najee Marshall. Love the season he's having. Didn't quite make it onto my ballot. Spoiler alert. But that game was fucking weird, guys. One of the weirdest NBA games I've ever been in attendance for. I think on just like, a fundamental level, I'm so used to being in any arena around the country, and you're used to a smattering of Lakers fans. If the Lakers are in town, that is inevitable. Now take that. Crank it all the way up. Like, I literally just straight up saw more Kobe Bryant jerseys than generic Mavs jerseys, than Klay Thompson or Kyrie Irving or fill in the blank. As far as, like, other Mavs go, you know, Derek Lively, the Lakers presence was insane. And the. The Luca Lakers presence in particular. And I think this. The splintering segment of Mavs fans, former Mavs fans, who are now just Luka fans. Man, it sucks to see. It sucks to like, to experience that. And I think it played a huge part in that game being as emotional as it was that it wasn't just emotional for Luca with the tribute video and all. I think it was emotional for a lot of people in the building.
- [03:34]
Justin Varier
Yeah. Just watching this from afar, like, Woz and I were. I think both of us were pretty struck by it as well. Like, when he started crying and it wasn' just like a. A welling up. It wasn't just like a single tier. He was crying a lot. Pretty much throughout the entire video board tribute. They had. So w. Did you get a little over. Clumped out there?
- [03:53]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, just a little bit. Because. Only because before the trade, I'd never really tried to get into the quote unquote mind or, you know, psyche of Luka Doncic. But the more people I talk to who have been around Luka, the more you get the sense that he's a really sensitive guy. Just like a really sensitive guy. And I don't mean that in the pejorative. This guy has feelings. And so watching that and just having a better understanding about the kind of guy that he is and what makes him tick. And I'm 38 years old now, and you realize that this guy's 25. I see him as a kid, essentially, you know, like, those were the feelings that got stirred within me watching that homecoming unfold the way that it did.
- [04:46]
Justin Varier
Yeah. So, Rob, give us a scene from. From down there. Was it like just tense the entire game? Did it feel like every time the Mavs were at the line or just shooting, did it feel like the crowd was on top of them?
- [04:57]
Wosny Lambre
I see. I expected tense. I thought, this is going to be a Weird, like, playoff atmosphere. It just felt more strange. It felt like nobody in the building quite knew what to do with themselves. Fans, Luca, other Lakers, these other Mavs who are put in a. A shitty and impossible position where every time there's a stoppage in play, especially a free throw fire Nico chants are popping off.
- [05:19]
Rob Mahoney
That's crazy.
- [05:20]
Wosny Lambre
People. Like the, the ch, like the. The cheering overall was so much louder for Luca than for anything that was going on for the Mavs. It was just an incredibly strange game. And I think I. It left me wondering, and I wrote about this a little bit for the ringer.com if anyone involved is going to be able to get closure from this or if this is just what it's going to be when Luca comes back to Dallas. Because this isn't the kind of thing where you can just like say goodbye and be done with it. This is going to hang over the Mavs as a franchise for a long time. They're very leveraged with now older stars Anthony Davis and Kyrie Irving, one of whom's out for the rest of this season and presumably a good portion of next. They're out a ton of draft picks for the foreseeable future. They are not going to get demonstrably better in terms of their roster construction in the near term in any capacity. And so they're just going to be staring down Luca memories, Luca highlights, whatever it is that's going right or wrong for the Lakers at a given point in time. I don't know that anything's going to get better for them anytime soon. And because of that, I don't know when anyone in Dallas is going to get any kind of actual closure on this stuff.
- [06:25]
Rob Mahoney
So for me, last night, you know, there was the crazy stuff with the crowd and the cheering and the MVP chants and all of that stuff, which was, you know, just a strange viewing experience. But for me, there was a lot, like a bit of a sadness to watch Lively be back out there, right to see Gafford have an imprint on the game. Clay is splashing threes, Nachi Marshall having moments. Bj watch. I'm like, man, this team with Luka on it was a nice ass team. Like they had assembled such a nice roster. Probably definitely the best collection of talent of the entire Luka era. Like Lively, like, you know, looking moving. Well, I'm like, damn, that's right. Lively was going to eventually be back before the playoffs. That's right. Gafford can have big defensive, you know, impact when he's really locked in. That's Right. Like, Klay Thompson is a knockdown shooter. Like, PJ Washington does have these moments where he's taking it to the rack or making shots off the dribble. I'm like, this team was so poised to do some nice, amazing things again in the playoffs and to just dissolve this thing. And this is before you even, you know, add in. Kyrie was on this team.
- [07:44]
Wosny Lambre
And look, I'm just like playing amazing basketball before he got hurt.
- [07:48]
Rob Mahoney
Oh, my God, I can't believe they broke up this team.
- [07:51]
Wosny Lambre
They fucked it up so badly.
- [07:52]
Rob Mahoney
Feeling that I got watching this last night.
- [07:55]
Justin Varier
Yeah. And so I don't know how the Mavs and Mavs fans in particular find catharsis from this, because this is the type of thing, as Rob was alluding to, that could linger for a while. I guess watching how many power forwards you can cram into one single lineup will be some sort of oddity that you can at least plug into. But it's going to be a tough slog if you're a fan of that team. But on the other side of this, I thought it was cathartic not only for Luca, but it seemed like the Lakers started to rally around Luka in ways that were pretty notice, like when Luca went off the floor and everyone gives him a hug and then LeBron is basically the last guy in line giving him a hug. He had the quote after the game where it's like, oh, I've seen a lot. But this was like. This was kind of a moment which I thought was pretty poignant and like important there because I think LeBron is used to having those moments with him. I can't remember the last time he's had that with another. Yeah. And so I think it spoke to not only like just the way things are going with the Lakers, where Luke is probably going to be the focal point. LeBron has embraced this role is just like kind of being the caddy for that, being the 1B, if you want to really qualify it like that. But it just seemed like it was important for the Lakers. It almost felt like it galvanized them not only in this game, but going forward.
- [09:05]
Wosny Lambre
I thought they did a great job of supporting Luka overall. As you're right, like LeBron, Markief Morris was actually a huge part of that. One of Luke Luka's now longest running teammates. LeBron was straight up, like leading chance, like leading the crowd in Luka chants at certain points. It was amazing. And yeah, like, given all the Lakers and now Luka faithful there, it made all the sense in the world for him to do it like those guys were the conductors. And to see that at American Airlines center is really something to behold.
- [09:32]
Rob Mahoney
I think most important for the Lakers is that Luca for the first time to me this year looked like the Luca of old. And what do I mean by that? When Gafford and Lively and even AD got switched on to him.
- [09:48]
Wosny Lambre
Yeah, he went at AD a couple times for sure.
- [09:50]
Rob Mahoney
Getting by them, finishing or scoring. This is. He has not been doing this this year. He's been. Especially when bigger guys get switched onto him. He hasn't been able to get by him. He's just been settling for his step back three pointer which he took a decent amount of yesterday. But for the first time I'm like, oh, okay. This guy's actually one on one beating these guys, getting to the cup, getting to the line. I'm like, all right, now this is the Luka Doncic that Nico Harrison is an idiot for having traded. Right? The guy, honestly, the guy that he's played the way that he's played early on in his Laker tenure. I'm like, guys, this is not going to get it done in the playoffs if this is the version that we get. But last night where he's mixing up, you know, the insane shot making with the more reliable getting to the paint, getting to the foul line kind of stuff, beating switches one on one, getting it out quickly when they send help, I'm like, all right, okay, this Nico, you might have fucked up, man.
- [10:52]
Justin Varier
Yeah, splashing those threes early just seems to open up things for him just so dramatically at this stage of his career. It's hard to really tell how much he's still hampered by the injuries versus the conditioning versus just like this entire season being batshit crazy for him. But you could see as soon as those started to fall, they had to really guard him up top there. And basically you're taking PJ Washington, whatever power forward size player for a ride because he's going to have that extra advantage against them. Rob, you were probably in the room for Jason kids press conference in which he equated this trade to the Babe Ruth trade, which he almost like presented in a positive life, like, yeah, which is so cool. What did everybody else have the same reaction in the room that everyone win.
- [11:39]
Rob Mahoney
Another championship for 100 years.
- [11:41]
Wosny Lambre
I know.
- [11:42]
Justin Varier
Literally.
- [11:42]
Rob Mahoney
Does he know that part?
- [11:43]
Wosny Lambre
I. I don't know if anyone's caught him up on the history. Genuinely concerning, but I think par for the course with frankly Mavs officials stepping in it, putting their foot in their mouth basically every step of the way on this stuff. I, I just have not heard many good, constructive, positive quotes from anyone above the level of player on this team in the public in some time. So they got, they got to get together, they got to get together on the messaging on this and maybe don't compare. Granted, Jason Kid did not concoct the Babe Ruth comparison that was in the Dallas Morning News yesterday. So he was referring to a thing that was like in the ether, but don't welcome it and don't call it pretty cool.
- [12:22]
Rob Mahoney
It's pretty cool.
- [12:23]
Justin Varier
Which is kind of cool. Yeah, that was a weird one. Since we're talking about like the specifics of the game, like directly. Obviously Luca was like 1 to 10 of the top storylines of this story. But I have to say, like watching Rui fly around in that small ball lineup that they have, I will just say that I think that Rui Hachimura has taken the next step and this sort of concoction around Luca, the small lineup with him and LeBron in that front court, I'm like, this is kind of dangerous.
- [12:55]
Wosny Lambre
You know, at the risk of circling all the way back and agreeing with JJ Redick and disputing the next step premise regarding Rui Hachimura, I don't know that I would have identified this as the next step, which was kind of. His point is like, you don't. Doesn't have to be one specific thing. It could be anything. And for Rui, as much as anything, it's been level of activity, level of defensive acuity, really focus on that end. He's turned into a totally different player, played super well. And yeah, when they take Jackson Hayes out and they put Dorian Finney Smith in there, they're running small. Those guys just get it and they understand how to play together and they get their spacing and it, it's not going to work against every team and every lineups, but it's really going to work against a lot of people.
- [13:33]
Rob Mahoney
Finney Smith is the sort of the turnkey locksmith unlocking of the defense because this man makes every single rotation precisely. He will body up on those, you know, those closeouts and the guy tries to drive past him, he's going to get in great position. This dude makes no defensive mistakes. Like watching him is really cool. Cause he's like setting an effort tone when he's out there. And that's before you get into the IQ and the know how he is. He is a great defensive player, man. Like obviously he's not as Athletic as he once was in the Dallas days. But in terms of iq, man, like he is up there, dude.
- [14:20]
Wosny Lambre
And we should say Vando too is kind of interchangeable in that spot.
- [14:24]
Justin Varier
Yeah, I bring it up because it does feel like they have a sort of advantage that they're kind of leaning into by being small, by having these guys that have popped, by having that baseline, by having Reeves and Luka and LeBron being able to take the lion's share of the playmaking and the scoring, that those guys are enhanced almost in this setup. And it's something I've been tracking as we barrel toward the playoffs and the play and just the west being a complete, complete mess here to the point where the warriors lose to a Harrison Barnes three last night and a bit of poetic justice and all of a sudden they're back in the play in mix. I do wonder if teams that are a little bit smaller might have an advantage, especially as Denver is in complete disarray at this point. There really isn't that big bad with size waiting to punish those types of team. Like I guess you could say the Thunder, maybe the Rockets, I think the.
- [15:11]
Wosny Lambre
Rock, like might be the one.
- [15:12]
Justin Varier
Yeah, I guess Zubac as well. But there's not like that one team where you're just deathly afraid of like with Minnesota last year where it's like, oh, we have to get through this team. What are we going to do with our bigs? It's actually like, I don't know, it's playing to the strength of a team like the Lakers with the wars that have so, so much offensive juice.
- [15:28]
Wosny Lambre
For sure. I think it helps too, like one of the big differentiating points between the Lakers being the Lakers and the Lakers being say Suns. Plus, you know, you mentioned that the playmaking of those three stars, one of the big swing points is Austin Reeves. Not just in terms of the jump, he's, but he is a high effort creator and a high effort role player when he doesn't have the ball. And so that's, that's, you know, the difference between that and whatever you're getting from Bradley Beal is profound, especially when the other two guys are two of the best passers in the entire league. So you're getting huge effort plays from everyone up and down the roster, including, although picking their spots a little bit more, LeBron and Luka and then just incredibly high IQ plays basically across the board. That's a great formula to have.
- [16:09]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, like they had a couple of times yesterday that I thought was really cool and I think speaks to the kind of synergy that they're. That they're basically inventing right now on the fly is when the Mavs decided, all right, we're going to put two on the ball against Luka.
- [16:28]
Wosny Lambre
Yep.
- [16:28]
Rob Mahoney
Luka's like, you know what?
- [16:29]
Wosny Lambre
It only took, like, 30 points for them to decide to do that.
- [16:32]
Rob Mahoney
He was like, you know what? Instead of bringing LeBron up here on the pick and roll, I'm going to bring Austin Reaves. And now he's catching it in the, you know, basically the four on three, and then LeBron is cutting behind it like a freight training when, like, you know, even at 48, when LeBron gets ahead of steam and he's catching the ball on the move, like, that is still pretty incredible. And they did that like two or three times last night. I'm like, man, they. They got a little. They got a little something going on with the chemistry between those three.
- [17:07]
Wosny Lambre
Even at 48.
- [17:12]
Justin Varier
That's a good guy.
- [17:13]
Wosny Lambre
Come on.
- [17:14]
Justin Varier
Yeah, it's a good segue into our awards ballots here, just because I think Reeves is going to come up, at the very least, in the most improve section, certainly. So why don't we turn the page there? We did our team awards on Monday, so you can go back to that podcast and listen to that. All NBA, all rookie, all defense. We're going to do the individual awards now, and I think we have to start first and foremost with the MVP debate, which, Man, I'll be honest, this is the hardest one in my lifetime. I could feel differently in an hour after this conversation. I could feel differently tomorrow. It's just so tight in a way that it wasn't in years past. Like, for instance, I think the Russell Westbrook one was really difficult, but probably because there was such a void of an obvious, like, just knock it out of the park candidate here. It just feels like they're two of the best players playing at their absolute peak of their powers. And it's really. You're distinguishing between a guy who's having a special season driving the results of a special team versus an individual who's having a special season in order to compensate for the rest of his team not being necessarily up to par there, and I don't really know how to parse this especially was after the Denver Nuggets just fire their coach and gm, which I have to say won't bode well for Jokic, his candidacy, because I think one of the big thing driving Shea's, like, ultimate probably going to win this is the fact that the difference between the Thunder and The Nuggets is 18 games at this point. And so I have to say, like, I don't know, we should talk about should, but I do think that probably won the award for Shay.
- [18:46]
Rob Mahoney
Look, I'm not against having a narrative sort of influence on your vote. Like, I've never been completely against that. I just don't think that it should overshadow an otherwise overwhelming case from somebody else. But in this case, it's not overwhelming. It's really not neck and neck in, like, if Yokage, like, Jokic has the sort of individual stat case, like, kind of like, barely by a hair, he's not a notch above Shay in terms of his output this year. And so when you count the wins, when you count, this is the first time Shea's gonna get the award. The magical season OKC is having, the fact that Jokic's coach got fired. Like, I hate how this is going to sound, but I'm sorry, you can't win MVP this season that your coach gets fired for performance. Like, your coach didn't get fired for some weird thing that he might have did, you know, and, you know, he got like a DUI or something like, oh, he's fired. It's like, no, dude, he's fired for performance of the team. The team is underwhelmed. They. They got replaced. Reports out of Denver, out of national media, talking about he lost the locker room. I'm sorry, you can't win the MVP like that, especially when the cases are this close. And that's why I think, ultimately, man, I've been Jokic all year, but I think it is Shay ultimately, and I think he's more than deserving of it.
- [20:18]
Wosny Lambre
This is such a fascinating swing piece of this race that I was not ready for. I was certainly not anticipating, but you're right. It throws such a wrench into things that you have to consider, especially the counterpoint. Shay being such a good, like, culture setter and effort setter for the Thunder.
- [20:35]
Rob Mahoney
His.
- [20:35]
Wosny Lambre
I think his leadership has been a really impressive part of what has driven this run for them. Not to say that Jokic isn't a great leader, but he's kept the Thunder together collectively in a way that prevents people from getting fired, that prevents accountability for people who are underperforming. At the same time, I don't know if you guys heard the comments from Josh Kroenke about the timing of the firing and kind of the thought process. It sounded like they wanted to fire Malone, like, two months ago, and that Jokic basically helped the team get on a nine game winning streak and they're like, well, we can't fire him now.
- [21:07]
Justin Varier
It seems like they preempted them getting hot yet again because they didn't want to get into a situation where they had to bring these guys back.
- [21:13]
Wosny Lambre
Yes, it seemed like they made a decision that they did not want to bring back Michael Malone and Calvin Booth, which we can debate the merits of that if you want. Fair enough. Either way, whatever you want to decide as far as that goes, how should that affect Nikola Jokic's MVP case? I honestly just don't know. And so I, I think with this, I am. I'm throwing up my hands a little bit because I think it is outside of Jokic's control. I think he's lived up to his end of the bargain basically every respect that a star can. And so I, I don't want something like this, which is so much outside, like, it is extracurricular. As far as what Jokic's contributions are to sway a race that is this close, I'm almost leaning the opposite way. It was where, like, I'm not using it as a tiebreaker because it focuses outside of the jurisdiction.
- [21:58]
Rob Mahoney
You're saying doing all of this amidst all of the dysfunction and chaos is a.
- [22:04]
Wosny Lambre
Like, I'm not even arguing that.
- [22:06]
Rob Mahoney
Oh, okay.
- [22:07]
Wosny Lambre
I think, look, I do think on a general management level, the limitations of the roster, as Justin alluded to, are something that Jokic overcomes in a way that Shai does not. And that's worth talking about and that's worth parsing into this discussion. I also don't like punishing Shay for having really good teammates. I don't like punishing Shay for the fact that their defense is absolutely elite in a way that he contributes to but is not. The driving force of, like, is, I would say, among their better defenders. But they're like, we talked about it last week. There's like five different Thunder guys who, if they had played enough games, would be under all defense consideration.
- [22:39]
Justin Varier
It's so tough because this whole Malone and Booth thing just feeds into your base impulse, as I was saying before, where it's like you want to reward the best player on the best team. But we also also have gotten to this point where, like, I think we've moved away from that being the utmost requirement for it. I was listening to Howard Beck talked to Zach Lowe on his podcast on Monday. And Howard has been doing this way longer than all of us. And so he was, and I respect his opinion and it's just like his understanding of history to that extent. And he was basically arguing, you know, it always has been the case where winning matters. I think in recent years, we've kind of pushed up against that and. But, like, it does. It should be a major factor that the Thunder have won so many different games. And I respect Howard a lot and. But I just, like, I respectfully disagree with the opinion in so much as, like, I don't necessarily know if that's really what we're arguing, like, leads to value. Right. We're basically having a philosophical discussion about what value means. And the fact that Jokic has played so well individually, and I think if you're looking at a lot of the Vance statistics, it's probably like one of the top five best seasons in NBA history statistically. To overcome the fact that his organization hasn't provided him with as much as a, Like, a player like Shai, it gets into this really naughty territory where it's hard to unspool. But I don't think we should necessarily discount Jokic, I guess, is what I'm saying, purely based on the success of his team, because he has played so well individually.
- [24:07]
Rob Mahoney
I've said this already a bunch of times on this podcast, and I'll say it again. And, you know, I respect Howard's perspective. I don't think it's like a. Of, like a bad perspective. I just. It's just my opinion that individual greatness can't drive wins in the way that it used to be able to. So, like, I think when you say.
- [24:29]
Wosny Lambre
Used to was, like, what era are you referring to, bro?
- [24:32]
Rob Mahoney
2011.
- [24:33]
Wosny Lambre
Okay, so even as recently as that, you think it's.
- [24:36]
Rob Mahoney
It's changed. If Nikola Jokic is this great, okay, with comparable supporting talent in, like, I don't know, Cleveland, LeBron, that's 60 wins straight up. You're getting 60 wins out of this level of production that, like, that was the nature of the league. Like, the talent just wasn't as high. Even on these bad and middling teams, that's not the case. Just look at the warriors game last night, bro. Like, that spurs team just shouldn't be able to beat them. When the warriors have something to play for and they lost. They were trying and they lost. That's just straight up how the NBA is. So, like, I just think the. The way the talent is dispersed in today's league, individual, individual greatness is not going to be good enough. Like, LeBron could win 66 games with Zadrunas and Varajal and Delonte west and Month Williams, you know, and it was like it was nothing. It was like it's expected. He's playing at an MVP level. None of these guys were all stars or any of that stuff. But LeBron was playing at an all time great level and that was 60 wins automatically. Now Jokic is playing at just as high a level as LeBron was in 2009 and it's a 47 win team. That's like, that's the difference between like what the league is now. To me it's so like I understand giving it to Shay for the wins. I just don't think playing like an MVP means you're going to get 56 wins anymore.
- [26:09]
Wosny Lambre
Shai definitely deserves credit for the win total, for the commitment to the regular season, for the overall like intensity and seriousness that the Thunder have taken the season with. I think where this is like a big philosophical stopping point for me is I really strongly believe, especially when looking at mvp, I do not penalize players for what happens when they are not on the floor. And I'm not even talking about like the on off swings with Jokic because when you play with DeAndre Jordan, the contrast is going to look pretty good. I'm just saying we're going to throw out the off. Like I don't really care about what is happening with Jokic on the bench. I only care about when he plays. And when he plays, the Nuggets smoke people every minute that he's on the floor. And granted when Shay plays for the Thunder, they smoke people by an even wider margin than that.
- [26:57]
Justin Varier
And so it might, it might actually be historic. Shay's on court net.
- [27:01]
Wosny Lambre
It's insane. Like his, his again not on off, just strictly on net rating is insane. And so to me what this does is not, it's not a feather in Jokic's cap, it's not an advantage for Jokic, but to me it does mitigate the 18 game gap that exists between the Thunder and the Nuggets. Right. When we just get down to when these guys play, the margin is a little tighter and it still lean shave but it is tighter.
- [27:26]
Justin Varier
I also think the way that Jokic has activated and filled in holes that the Nuggets specifically have needed throughout the course of this season is a big feather in his cap. We've talked a lot about the three point success that he's had and we marked that as soon as it happened the first weekend of the season where it's like he said outright, we don't have shooters. And so I am Going to do this more and I'm going to do it at a rate better than I ever have. To the point where he is 21st in three point percentage, just ahead of Malik Beasley. Obviously the volume is completely different, but the success is unparalleled. The fact that like the Nuggets always.
- [28:02]
Wosny Lambre
Called him center Malik Beasley, like that is who Nicola Jokic is.
- [28:05]
Justin Varier
It's a very popular comp. The fact that the Nuggets don't take a lot of threes because they don't have a lot of just pure shooters, but they are so successful at that. Making threes because of Jokic shot generation and getting open looks, I think matters. Like the success of Christian Brown, for instance. It's so it's hard to untangle those things. I want to give Brown credit, for instance, in MIP conversation, but the fact that Jokic is the one powering those shots, it's like, is that a Jokic situation or is that a Brown thing? I think a lot of it's Jokic and so he has done that. I think this is also a time where I think defense probably matters more because we are really nitpicking the really finer points of these candidacies. As Rob alluded to before, I think Shea is a average to above average defender.
- [28:52]
Wosny Lambre
I think.
- [28:52]
Justin Varier
I think above average solid defender, really good help defender, great hands. Also, like, he's good at getting blocks here and there. Like he will chip in in a way. And I also think it's easier frankly to Jokic's case, like a little easier to hide a guy like Shay, who's one of four perimeter defenders versus Jokic, who has to be the fulcrum of your defense. And unfortunately, like joke, it's just not a rim protector. In fact, he's like one of the worst rim protectors in the NBA this year. He's like one of the few guys where like guys shoot better at the rim going at him as opposed to like in a deficit. And so that factors in the Nuggets are bad on defense. How much does he play into that? I was at a game earlier this season in which like he was just letting guys go by and now because he has such an offensive burden, I kind of give him the benefit of the doubt. But if we are like nitpicking, as I said, like, those things do start to turn me Shay in a way that like I'm resistant toward, but I have to account for.
- [29:45]
Wosny Lambre
I think you have to. I mean, Jokic just has not been to the level that he's even been in previous seasons. Defensively, it has been a lot of business decisions out there.
- [29:54]
Rob Mahoney
Right.
- [29:54]
Wosny Lambre
A lot of picking and choosing your spots, maximizing what he's bringing to the table on offense, knowing that he has to carry the load that he does. That's a tough thing to calibrate for, especially when the Thunder, like, not only are they deep, their margins have been so dominant that Shay can afford to go harder knowing that I might not even play in the fourth quarter. We're so good, right? Like, those. Those sorts of, like, effort calibrations are always really tough to parse.
- [30:18]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah. And I watched a game against Sacramento last night, way better effort from Jokic. But guess What? He took 12 shots last night. You know, like, I think there's something to the idea where you gotta drop 40. And when you're not scoring individually, not like anybody setting you up for any of these buckets, you're going out and getting him for yourself. And when you're not doing that, you're creating the opportunities for every single other guy on your team. Cause there is no one on one killer on Denver Nuggets besides Jokic. Right. Like, everybody has to do it off of the attention that he draws. And so, you know, like, yeah, like, no excuses. Played like a champion. But at the same time, like, I can understand some of the excuses, excuses when you consider the burden that he's shouldering.
- [31:03]
Wosny Lambre
Justin, next time you try to come in here with any excuse on this podcast as to your performance, it's too early, it's too late, you haven't had enough to eat, whatever it is, we're going to tell you, no excuses. Pod like a champion.
- [31:14]
Rob Mahoney
That's right.
- [31:14]
Justin Varier
The two early ones are definitely going to pop up. It's so tough. It almost seems like we've gotten to a point in terms of the discourse over value of diminishing Shay for being a scorer, in part because playmaking and orchestrating is such a big factor of. For. For Jokic and just like in basketball in general. But, like, I think it's a playmaker too, though.
- [31:36]
Wosny Lambre
He is.
- [31:36]
Justin Varier
Yeah.
- [31:37]
Wosny Lambre
Really good.
- [31:37]
Justin Varier
He's doing it in addition to that.
- [31:39]
Wosny Lambre
Yes.
- [31:40]
Justin Varier
And the fact that his scoring is driving results like it's accomplishing the same end goal is just like fetishizing different aspects of the same sort of basic thing there. I do think this is really telling. Stat from our friend is Zach Cram at ESPN too, which is that Shea will ultimately be the 10th player to win the scoring title on the best team in the league. And eight of the nine previous players who accomplished that won the mvp. The one that didn't was when Karl Malone got it over Michael Jordan, which was obviously super contentious.
- [32:13]
Rob Mahoney
That was crazy. And I think there's something to. And I don't know how to describe this. Like, Shay's season has the feel of an mvp.
- [32:24]
Wosny Lambre
Oh, without a doubt.
- [32:26]
Rob Mahoney
You know what I mean? Like, the buzzer beaters and this and the throwing the towel on the freaking. In the game on Nick Gallo guy.
- [32:36]
Wosny Lambre
Yeah.
- [32:37]
Rob Mahoney
And, like, there's like a celebratory feel to Shay's season. Like, there's a. There's a. Like a. I don't know. It's like a campaign almost. Right? It's almost. It's almost like a pain. Not a Cameron pain, but a campaign. And. And Yoka just. Season just doesn't feel that way. It certainly does not have a celebratory feel to it at all.
- [33:06]
Wosny Lambre
Dude, it's so bad. I was literally trying to figure out when was the last time a coach and a general manager got fired at the same time. And it's been. It's been a very long time, guys. I think.
- [33:15]
Justin Varier
Did you get the answer for that?
- [33:17]
Wosny Lambre
So I think it's either the Billy King, Lionel Holland's Nets tenure, like, at the very tail end of the kg, Paul Pierce kind of era there.
- [33:26]
Rob Mahoney
Wow. From the past. I wonder what that guy's doing these days.
- [33:30]
Wosny Lambre
I honestly don't know. Or I think there was a Grizzlies option that Chris Harrington had put forward. I got to check the dates, though. I forgot to compare them to see which one was more recent.
- [33:38]
Justin Varier
Is that the Hubie Brown Eric?
- [33:40]
Wosny Lambre
No, I think it's. I think it's more recent than that.
- [33:42]
Justin Varier
More. Lionel Holland's era. It's so tough. Yeah, especially. I mean, there's a. There's a possibility the Nuggets might sink into the play in mix as we're recording this on Thursday. They're one game up on the Warriors. It seems doubtful that they would, but.
- [33:58]
Wosny Lambre
They also might make the third seed.
- [34:01]
Justin Varier
Exactly.
- [34:02]
Rob Mahoney
Jumbled playoff situation is insane.
- [34:06]
Justin Varier
So. So that definitely has an effect on it. If we find out, like, that Nikola Jokic, like, requests a trade after the season, I think it will look weird to look back on this and, like, remember, we gave Jokic the MVP over the guy that just, like, won almost 70 games and was the best player and was scoring 32 points a game. So I don't know. Like, it's kind of a jumbled mess, as you can tell if you're listening to this at home, where it's like, I want to give Jokic the benefit of the doubt because I do think he is the best player in the world who's having the best season of his career. And we've already established that that level of success is MVP worthy. So I don't know how to square that logically. It's just. It's really tough.
- [34:46]
Wosny Lambre
I think this is what's going to determine the vote for a lot of people is where do you put the burden of proof for mvp? For me, and this is a reason why I. At this moment, I'm leaning Jokic. But to everything we've talked about, it is as tight.
- [35:01]
Rob Mahoney
When are you going to actually put pen to paper and lick the envelope and actually send it over? Like, when is that happening?
- [35:07]
Wosny Lambre
Do you have a date? I'm going to give myself seven minutes until the deadline just for like a little technical glitch. You want to be right up against it, but about as late as I can possibly submit it.
- [35:18]
Justin Varier
That's unique for you.
- [35:19]
Rob Mahoney
What day is that? What's the date?
- [35:22]
Wosny Lambre
Shots fired and rarely received.
- [35:26]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah. What day do you have? Just. Just so the fans know.
- [35:29]
Wosny Lambre
Let me. Let me check this real quick. Let me see if they got it.
- [35:31]
Rob Mahoney
They gonna be setting their alarms to it so that they can hit you to remind you. Like, Rob, make sure you make your deadline. Unlike when you're submitting something to Justin Barrier.
- [35:42]
Wosny Lambre
So we don't have all the finalized information yet. Like, we don't have the full list, for example, of eligible players yet that has to be distributed after the regular season. But we have up until April 8th, 18th to finalize our ballots.
- [35:54]
Rob Mahoney
So 18th, still.
- [35:56]
Wosny Lambre
Still a week for me to do a lot of backflips in a lot of different directions on many of these different awards. But for this one with Jokic, I think for me, if you are the best player alive and you are having a season that reflects that. Yeah, I personally am going to have a hard time like working around that sort of obstruction. And so Jokic, for my eye, is the like the best shot creator in the world. The best player in the world. He's been doing it such an absurdly high level all season. I'm not even really concerned if this year is better than last. He's just been amazing and he's still amazing.
- [36:28]
Rob Mahoney
He is the best individual scorer and the best passer in the league. Yeah, that's insane.
- [36:37]
Justin Varier
His per and now PER is like whatever it is, what it is. Favorite centers and whatever, but second in NBA history. Oddly enough, number one was Jokic in 2122.
- [36:51]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, pretty crazy.
- [36:53]
Wosny Lambre
So on the, on the defense front, I want to throw one other thing out there that I think it doesn't close the gap on this. I wouldn't say I'm like a 5050 offense defense voter necessarily. I think high level shot creation is mostly more valuable than almost anything you can do on defense. Both of these guys are providing that Shay is the better defender. I also think we just don't really talk about it because it's not a very sexy part of the conversation. Nicole Jokic is just one of the best rebounders in the league. An amazing contested rebounder, a guy who will single handedly anchor you. That doesn't offset everything he's giving up on defense, but it is another attribute that he brings to the table.
- [37:31]
Justin Varier
Just to underline that point, he's currently third in points, third in rebounds, second in assists.
- [37:35]
Wosny Lambre
It's crazy.
- [37:37]
Justin Varier
Per game crazy. It's not an advanced stat. It's unbelievable. So you mentioned they have two games left at this point. The Nuggets do. What are you hoping to see over the course there? Are you waiting to see where the Nuggets fall in the standings? Do you want to see if they. If Jokic just plays gangbusters without Murray, who is hurt? Who should we talk about?
- [37:54]
Wosny Lambre
I mean I would love to see some gangbusters play in any particular direction. You know, again, I don't want to be prescriptive. I'm open to whatever his next step might be. You know. However the the reigning MVP wants to take the next step. The standings I'm a little less concerned about just because they are so cluttered. The idea that I'm going to over index on them being between three and seven when that might be a one game difference. The Thunder have their advantage as far as the win total scope. They will have the advantage no matter what the Nuggets do the rest of the way. To me it's a little bit more. Am I going to see anything that can budge me from either Shai or Jokic over these last couple of games? I'm not ruling it out because it is that close. But right now I do lean.
- [38:32]
Justin Varier
Nicola the Thunder also have an opportunity to be one of six teams or excuse me, seven teams. Six other teams in NBA history with 68 wins or more. So if they win their last two games in the season, I'm talking seven teams in NBA history who have done that.
- [38:49]
Wosny Lambre
I don't care about a round number, but I do care About a record. I do care about crossing a threshold. That again, look, that's. That is a nice little bit of narrative thrust.
- [39:00]
Justin Varier
So was has Shay Rob Jokic for now with an asterisk.
- [39:05]
Wosny Lambre
Yeah.
- [39:06]
Justin Varier
I would flip the opposite way where I'm Shay with an asterisk. I'm like Rob, where I do want to see these final two games, but man, the historical press so like if.
- [39:14]
Rob Mahoney
Joking drops like 60 in the next like 60 each of the next two games.
- [39:20]
Wosny Lambre
I mean he clearly can do it. He did it.
- [39:25]
Justin Varier
Should we talk about the rest of our ballots here?
- [39:27]
Wosny Lambre
Yeah.
- [39:27]
Rob Mahoney
Yes.
- [39:27]
Justin Varier
Mine looks exactly like my all NBA ballot where I have Giannis, Tatum, Mitchell.
- [39:32]
Wosny Lambre
What is, what is the rationale?
- [39:34]
Rob Mahoney
Steph?
- [39:35]
Wosny Lambre
Yeah.
- [39:36]
Justin Varier
Oh, okay.
- [39:36]
Wosny Lambre
I mean, but yeah, again, reflective of.
- [39:38]
Rob Mahoney
We voted all NBA.
- [39:40]
Wosny Lambre
I don't really understand the splitting of the difference between all NBA and MVP. Now that all NBA is purely positionless and MVPs obviously always been positionless.
- [39:49]
Rob Mahoney
There is no splitting of it. I think it's just a matter of your order.
- [39:53]
Wosny Lambre
Some voters take them differently, right? It's like they interpret most valuable to mean something more specific than the best players. I just kind of interpret it as.
- [40:01]
Rob Mahoney
Who are the best players. Five best guys on my all NBA. Five best guys, mvp. And I do want to talk about Tatum for a little bit. I just think this guy is at the peak of his powers. He's the fully realized version of himself. What he did against the Knicks the other night was nothing short of spectacular. He just dominated these guys in the ways that people were bitching all summer about how he didn't in the playoffs at times or whatever last year because the shot wasn't falling against the Knicks, man, they could do absolutely nothing with him. When, you know, a smaller, more slight of the. When God shot the garner, he bodied him up. Little 12 foot fade away like as if he was just taking the layup, you know, off of the dribble. That, that, that freaking step back that he did to OG Which OG what the fuck are you doing? You're up by three. If the guy's going to try to take a two point layup, you should probably let him. But whatever. Just an excellent performance and what he does on defense, you know, guarding Carl Towns and keeping Mitchell Robinson off of the offensive glass and like battling as a big. When he's not shutting down perimeter guys, like, you know, getting off the ball when he needs to, like, I just think he's just having obviously the best season of his career. He's just, he's just amazing right now. And you know, I can hear people be like, well, the off the team is tailor made to his strengths. And what if it wasn't a five out? It'd be a lot harder. And whatever that that is, it is.
- [41:37]
Wosny Lambre
A five out and it looks great. I don't know what to tell you.
- [41:40]
Rob Mahoney
I'm sorry. Like, Brad Stevens has done a great job of putting a roster together that perfectly fits Jason Tatum's strengths, man. And, and I do. I just wanted to shout him out for having the best season of his career. And I think in a different world where Jokic and Shay weren't playing at literally Michael Jordan levels, okay. Literally, they're playing as good as Michael Jordan and LeBron at their peak. Okay. In terms of regular season output and production, that Tatum would get a serious sniff for mvp. But like these, the two guys at the top, it's just ridiculous how well they're playing.
- [42:21]
Wosny Lambre
It's stratified out.
- [42:22]
Rob Mahoney
It's.
- [42:22]
Wosny Lambre
It's just so hard. Like, Tatum and Giannis have both been exceptional and they just, they're not going to. Neither one is going to get a first place vote. That's insane.
- [42:31]
Rob Mahoney
Yep.
- [42:31]
Justin Varier
It's wild. You guys have Giannis ahead of Tatum, or was you saying you have Tatum ahead of Giannis?
- [42:36]
Rob Mahoney
I got Tatum ahead of Giannis just because I just, I don't know, I feel like Giannis does a lot of his work against bad teams. That's just my opinion.
- [42:43]
Wosny Lambre
There is some of that.
- [42:43]
Rob Mahoney
Like, he just does it against bad teams, bad defenses. He's like 38 point games is against the sloppiest, nastiest defenses in the league. And for me, like, Tatum does this in real time, real games, best competition this year. And his games always have a certain heightened level of meaning because they're the defending champs. So they're getting teams best shots on a night to night basis. So yeah, Tatum is above Giannis for me.
- [43:11]
Wosny Lambre
I hate to break it to you though, but if you play in the Eastern Conference, there are a lot of sloppy, nasty teams out there.
- [43:16]
Justin Varier
Like, that's just what your schedule is.
- [43:18]
Wosny Lambre
At a certain point. I'm Giannis at three. Are you the same Justin, or did you go Tatum?
- [43:23]
Justin Varier
Nope. I'm Yanis at 3 as well. Although I will say Tatum just the complete package has just been on another level this year. The playmaking, I think, speaks to that more than anything. And to that point, like, we don't talk about the fact that like his shot hasn't really worked this year. It's like, it's actually not Shooting great, but he's just been so overall effective. We'll get to the playoffs. I'm sure we'll talk about it when he isn't making three, but like right now he's been gangbusters.
- [43:45]
Wosny Lambre
We like it if you have that kind of comprehensive all around excellence. It's okay to have an offshooting season. It's okay to have an offshooting series when you are that level of defender, when you are that level of playmaker. I just have never had more fun watching Jayson Tatum than I do right now. He's always had the balance to his.
- [44:00]
Rob Mahoney
Game, but he's got the confidence too.
- [44:02]
Wosny Lambre
This is it. Balance and confidence are such a killer combination.
- [44:05]
Rob Mahoney
And the thing that sticks out to me a lot, like obviously the playmaking, like he used to just be this like tunnel vision. I'm going to get this shot off no matter what. Whether it's a drive or step back, contested guy draped all over him. Um, the thing that's also improved is just the strength. He's just stronger than guys. He's just going to beat you up physically, which he didn't always have that element. Those are the two things that like have now unlocked him to be like, all right, this guy is just straight up, he's going to be elite every night because he's bigger and stronger than pretty much 90% of the wings that think they can try to guard him. And now when you send the extra help, whereas back in the days he would force the issue, now he's whipping it out quick. And even if it's not him making a direct pass, it's that hockey assist that Boston is so good at too.
- [44:55]
Justin Varier
It's definitely a more visceral experience watching him these days. All right, let's look to the next.
- [45:01]
Wosny Lambre
Set of on the Giannis front. Before we move on, I just want to acknowledge one quick thing. I mean one, he is as much like a full court, full force monster as he's ever been. I think maybe a little step down defensively from maybe his best defensive seasons, but still incredible, still ridiculously efficient. And we have been asking, waiting for years for Giannis to develop some kind of in between game. And he just became one of the best and most reliable mid range shooters in the league.
- [45:26]
Rob Mahoney
He shut me up.
- [45:27]
Wosny Lambre
That's in a blink. And the fact that he did it and he's still not going to be top tune mvp. Like I don't know what to tell him because it's just what it is. But he had a great season this.
- [45:37]
D
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- [46:33]
Justin Varier
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- [47:01]
Wosny Lambre
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- [47:07]
Justin Varier
Oh this was good.
- [47:08]
Rob Mahoney
This is literally the perfect gift for me.
- [47:11]
Justin Varier
So don't just get Mom a gift. Thank you so much. I love it. Thank you.
- [47:16]
Wosny Lambre
Best Mother's Day ever.
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Justin Varier
Give her a moment.
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Wosny Lambre
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- [47:50]
Justin Varier
That's a good entree into Defensive Player of the Year which is the next one we have up here. Kind of the opposite of the MVP discussion where I do think the void of Victor Wembanyama not being here for half of the season is definitely felt here because I found myself Picking the best of a lot of good defenders, most of whom, frankly, are on just okay defenses on good defense, but not necessarily the elite ones. I think you're seeing a lot of love for Lou Dort, for instance, for. For defensive player of the year. I think he's clearly a first team all defense guy. I don't have him on my top three. Was. Where did you go for number one on your ballot?
- [48:29]
Rob Mahoney
Easy for me. Evan Mobley is my defensive player of the year. To me, he is the. He is the closest facsimile to what Victor does when he's at his absolute apex in terms of defensive impact, like his ability, man the kg, like ad, like ability to play out in space on the floor and be just a monster rim protector. He's stronger than he used to be, so he doesn't get pushed around like he was, you know, in his first and second year. I'd like. I didn't. This was not even a hesitation for me. I think Evan Mobley is. On most nights. I think Draymond Green at his very best, I agree. Is the second best defensive player in the. In the NBA after Wemby because Wemby's nine feet tall. But like Mobley on most nights, is the second best defensive player in the NBA. And because of Wemby's injury, he's. To me, he's the deserving defensive play of the year.
- [49:29]
Wosny Lambre
I think that consistency is a huge part of the Mobley case. Like Draymond, he is a routinely, uniformly very good defender, but will dip a little bit and we'll spike more than Mobley will versus, if you look overall over the course of the entire season, Mobley has been rock solid the whole way through. And the reason he's been rock solid the whole way through is because he can play so many different ways, so many different styles. Draymond gets a lot of credit for his versatility. I think Mobley guards in terms of who he's assigned to guard a wider range of players than Draymond does. And on top of that, he's bigger.
- [50:02]
Rob Mahoney
And longer than Draymond.
- [50:03]
Wosny Lambre
That's the thing. And so, like you talked about the rim protection was. Mobley is my pick as well, in part because he can play with Jared Allen or without Jared Allen. Right. Like, I think people look at that as a case. Oh, because he plays with another quality rim protector, another quality defender. Maybe we should take that as a demerit against Evan Mobley.
- [50:20]
Rob Mahoney
Jared Allen's not there. I'm completely fine if you are.
- [50:23]
Wosny Lambre
If you're one of the best rim protectors in the league and I think Evan Mobley is that. And you can play for alongside someone like Jared Allen and empower Jared Allen to take the easier assignments or the kind of the back. The backstop assignments so you can go out and chase more complicated covers. That's defensive player of the year stuff to me.
- [50:40]
Justin Varier
I have met second for the. A lot of the reasons you guys mentioned. The versatility is kind of unparalleled, especially with Wemby off the board here and just the impact he has and how much they rely on him to have an impact in order to, to buoy their defense. I went with Dyson Daniels at one and as I mentioned, I might not do this in normal years, but I almost feel like we've swung a little too hard in the other direction on steals. Not valuing well on the big man first and foremost. I won't deny that they have more value, but I think when you're pickpocketing three steals a game at this point, which has been done since the mid-90s when we had hand checking rules and all that other stuff, I think we have to stop and take note. I think he's one of the best perimeter defenders we have there. Probably the best point of the of of attack defenders that we have. He currently has 92 more steals than the second most on this list of the season is 170 more deflections than anybody else.
- [51:34]
Rob Mahoney
Crazy.
- [51:35]
Justin Varier
And he's also doing it in big moments too. I took this from a Steven no article on Sporting News. He has three game winning steals on the season.
- [51:43]
Wosny Lambre
That Grizzlies one was one of the most insane plays of the year. Like the way he is blowing up crunch time possessions. This, this is the one thing you're not supposed to be able to do in crunch time. This is why no NBA teams run actual offense with like seven seconds left. It's clear out one player, make a move, beat a guy, take a shot. We don't want to turn the ball over under any circumstances. And here's Dyson Daniels blowing up. Whatever, whatever clever little ato you thought you were running to set up your guy. It's just not going to work. It's insane.
- [52:13]
Rob Mahoney
I'm just excited for him too because he kind of was kind of just casted off in that trade for Dejounte Murray. It didn't feel like, oh, he was the centerpiece. It was just like, yeah, we'll throw in Dyson Daniels. We barely use this kid anyway. Get him outta here. And for him to just make himself into a defensive star in his first year, like being trusted to have a prominent role on an NBA team, just a dope story all up and down for him, man.
- [52:44]
Justin Varier
There's just like a proactivity to the way that he's creating turnovers that I think deserves a lot of attention and merit. Just because like, he is positionally a good, like stopper, but he's not getting charges nor is he necessarily drawing fouls or like overfauling. He's just like almost like a ball hawking cornerback creating turnovers that are creating fast points where. Which are creating points. And like, I think that like has a lot of impact. Like, obviously blocks have become fetishized to the point where like anyone who's leading the league in blocks, I think gets a lot of attention for this award. Miles Turner in years past. But like he's, he's doing that in a way that's also generating offense. And so I think it's like kind of remarkable. Now you could ding him because The Hawks are 21st defensively, but I also think he's had to account for a lot of the deficiencies. They have their Trae Young first and foremost. They haven't had a lot of Jalen Johnson minutes. A lot of their guys have gotten hurt throughout the year.
- [53:41]
Wosny Lambre
And so super young too. Like a really young, really injured Trey young driven team. That's, that's a lot for him to carry.
- [53:48]
Rob Mahoney
Also, what I like about him too, like one of my favorite players of all time is Ron Artest. And Peak Ron Artest, or Meta World Peace, whatever we're calling him these days, was just insanely physical perimeter defender. Like this guy was getting his body on, folks. And to me, Dyson Daniels is, if you had Peak Ron Artest, but Ron Artest after the therapy, you know, like not a complete maniac every three games. That's what Dyson Daniels literally reminds me of. He brings me back to those Pacers era Ron Artest days where this guy, he was guarding everybody, you know, and doing a damn good job at it.
- [54:38]
Wosny Lambre
I mean, Ron Artest plus therapy was literally a championship player. That's what happened. And by the way, he is, he's currently Meta Sandiford Artest. That is his chosen name at this point in time.
- [54:48]
Rob Mahoney
Okay.
- [54:49]
Justin Varier
Huh. Didn't know the Sandiford, where that came from or that it popped in, but good for him.
- [54:54]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [54:56]
Justin Varier
Who do you guys have at 2 through 3?
- [55:00]
Wosny Lambre
What do you have, Buzz?
- [55:01]
Rob Mahoney
I went Mobley Draymond, Jaren Jackson, Dyson Daniels, Zubac.
- [55:06]
Wosny Lambre
But I think you only need three. But we love the honorable mentions.
- [55:09]
Rob Mahoney
Oh, yeah, those are the honorable mentions. There you go. So Daniels didn't make my ballot. Sorry, Dyson, but I'm a big man guy.
- [55:16]
Wosny Lambre
He did make mine. I have him at three. I have Mobley, Draymond, Green, Dyson, Daniels, in that order.
- [55:22]
Justin Varier
I had the same three, but I have Daniels, Mobley, Green. Like I said before, this is Razor's Edge. And maybe I've just been convinced by the propaganda warfare from. From Draymond of late, but, like, on another fucking level, yeah, I respect it for like half a season at this point. He pops probably more and has more wow moments he makes and like, like.
- [55:42]
Rob Mahoney
But Draymond does stuff where, like, a lot of guys are impressing you physically. Draymond stuff is just, like, instinctual. Like, he will get to a spot that it made no sense for him to be there. But for Draymond, just predicting shit out on the court, like, that's the Draymond factor that, like, you know, nobody else really has that, like, his instincts for defense are just on another level. Whereas, you know, sometimes you just watch Wemby contest a shot from being 20ft away, and it's like, how is a human being covering that much ground that quick? It's like physical what he's doing, whereas Draymond is just anticipating shit that is just like, wow. There's nobody else that does stuff like that, you know, on a possession to possession basis.
- [56:26]
Wosny Lambre
I also have a question for anyone who's listening out there, who is a voter or is another media member who thinks of, you know, we're talking about earlier, MVP versus all NBA. Do you consider them the same ballot or not? Like, your top five? Would they be the same? Is there anyone out there who would consider all defense to be different than defensive player of the year? Like, is there a different criteria for defensive player of the year? And there would be for mvp? I can't imagine there would be. But as I was doing this exercise, naturally, we're mostly drawing from our first teams that we talked about earlier this week.
- [56:55]
Justin Varier
I guess people would just be factoring team success for one more than the other.
- [57:00]
Wosny Lambre
For different player of the year, maybe, or.
- [57:02]
Justin Varier
Or even for both. Like, if you're saying for all NBA, like, maybe that's more about individual accomplishment, whereas MVP is more about team plus individual. I could see that. I don't necessarily see them as different things. And defense seems way more complicated because you're often relying on your teammates probably more in order to have defensive success, you're not like, it's hard to have one individual standout defensive statistical case. For instance, it's.
- [57:28]
Wosny Lambre
Yeah, I agree with that.
- [57:30]
Justin Varier
All right, what do you guys want to do next? Coach of the year?
- [57:33]
Wosny Lambre
Sure.
- [57:35]
Justin Varier
I have Kenny Atkinson and number one, you can listen to our Cavs pod if you want to talk about that for 20 more minutes. I have Mark Dagnol at number two just because of the historic season for the Thunder. And then I have Emi adoka at number three.
- [57:48]
Wosny Lambre
Yep, I'm Kenny Atkinson. One, Eme Udoka. Two. J.B. bickerstaff, three.
- [57:54]
Rob Mahoney
Same. I'm the same as, as, as, as. As Rob. And the reason why is that the Thunder were like, weren't they like a two seed last year? Like, they had already the one seed. There you go. They had already ascended to top of the Western Conference. Now they've added on that and they feel like, more formidable, but I think it's just harder to go from that middle pack to that top pack. And so that's what I want to reward to be like, yo, man, we went from being like, no, this is one of the good teams in the league. To like, yo, we're one of the best teams. So, like, you know, going from the dregs of society in the NBA to like, major respectability, like, that's, that's big, but, like, respectability to contention, where we, like, literally think you're one of the best teams, you can win the championship this year to where, like, at no point last year with the same roster did anybody think the Cavs had a chance at the championship. You know, I think that's the most important jump you can make in the NBA.
- [59:00]
Wosny Lambre
I think it's a hugely important jump. And I think coach of the year sometimes does get caught in who is just making the big jump or, like, what is the biggest surprise. And JB Bakerstaff is going to get a lot of votes on that. Those grounds too. Like, I think 29 win swing for the Detroit Pistons. That's a lot that might be insurmountable for any other candidate.
- [59:20]
Justin Varier
That said, historic.
- [59:22]
Wosny Lambre
I fully fucking believe it. That's crazy for me. Like, I want some kind of stylistic explanation for what is happening. And I think with the Pistons, specifically, JB Bickers have had a huge impact, especially in getting that team some real, like, common sense solutions to their problems. I think he's basically maxed out. The Malik Beasley impact, the Tim Hardaway impact, the Tobias Harris impact, like, those have gone as well as they possibly could in his hands. Them overcoming Jaden Ivey's injury, I think has been a low key, super important part of their season that we just kind of flew by in coronating them as a playoff team. But overall, I look at the Cavs and that is a team that dramatically retooled its offense in Kenny Atkinson's image. I look at the Rockets and I see a team that plays with Eme Odoka's absolute maniacal ferocity. And so those two things are a little bit easier for me to track in terms of what is the coach providing these teams, what are the levers that they're pulling? Like, you watch the Rockets this year and it's, you cannot separate Eme Odoka from the way they play, both in terms of that intensity, but also leaning into how weird that roster is where Udoka can be a really creative coach. Amin Thompson, you're the four. Oh, wait. Alper and Shangun, maybe you're the four. Oh, Jabari Smith, maybe you're the four. Like, I think the flexibility that the Rockets have played with has been such a breath of fresh air, and that's because of what Udoka is doing also.
- [60:40]
Rob Mahoney
What I like about Bickerstaff is he's willing to say shit like at a press conference. He's got a lot of like Mike Tomlin vibes, but it's like Mike Tomlin actually like would go after people in the press. I love that about like, IME will curse people out on the floor he's fighting.
- [60:59]
Justin Varier
Including Steph Curry. Yeah.
- [61:00]
Wosny Lambre
Which that's a new one.
- [61:02]
Rob Mahoney
But he goes to the press conference and just like kind of downplays. Whereas Bickerstaff is like, no, like, we're doing it on the court. I'm in the press talking like, I love that about him. He's a bit of a character that way.
- [61:14]
Wosny Lambre
Well, mid first round series, JB Bickerstaff. Come on, group chat, talk your shit. We would love to hear it.
- [61:19]
Justin Varier
I know we're the, we're the new vehicle for everyone who wants to have a 20 minute interview about just what's going on with your team. But also Cats.
- [61:28]
Wosny Lambre
Why not?
- [61:30]
Justin Varier
I had Bickerstaff just on the outside in for all the reasons you guys mentioned. I found it hard to unspool the difference between some of the personnel decisions that they've made versus just like natural progress with Kate Cunningham and all those guys. And just like kind of the low hanging fruit of just giving a player who needs shooters to activate like shooters in order to do. So Udoka has just done such a great job basically turning that team into first and foremost an elite defense. But now the offense is starting to come around. And so you're seeing a guy having a direct impact on the style and the choices and just the success of both units. And I think that deserves a lot of praise. But I ultimately had Dagnal over him just because the precision of that entire organization is something that clearly I've spoke fawningly over a bunch of times. Just like they get their challenges right to that point where it's like almost historic. How the success rate they have of that and just the institutional kind of alignment they have with the front office, the fact that developing guys, the fact that they're working guys in on the fly, it's like that stuff can go unnoticed because you might say it's the Sam Presti thing. But I think it takes a coach like Dagnaut in order to execute it. And so I have Matt too.
- [62:34]
Rob Mahoney
You mean. Hold on, you mean if Sam Presti hires a shooting coach, that Dagnal isn't going to kick him out of the gym and force players to. To work with the shooting coach off of team facilities? You mean that's not gonna happen?
- [62:48]
Wosny Lambre
I believe they did hire a shooting coach and that did not happen, for what it's worth. Interesting.
- [62:54]
Rob Mahoney
Okay.
- [62:55]
Wosny Lambre
Dagnaut's been awesome. And I think too, another thing with the Thunder season, we're talking about Shay, we're talking about their win total, we're talking about them as a high end championship contender and to me, the favorite to win the title. He has managed to pack in a ton of development into a massive winning season. No, no small feat for anybody. I think Dagnal is coaching him up.
- [63:15]
Rob Mahoney
He's absolutely coaching him up. And I think the biggest marker is just the buy in that he's gotten out of these guys. Of course he's, you know, he's got all the analytical stuff to him too that a lot of our media cohort love. Like, he's good at that. Um, but I think he's gotten these. These guys have run through a wall for Dagnal and each other, and he deserves a ton of credit for that.
- [63:36]
Justin Varier
Culture is a little bit different there than in, say, Denver right now.
- [63:40]
Wosny Lambre
Slightly.
- [63:41]
Justin Varier
Seems like there's. The vibes are a little bit better, you know, just slightly.
- [63:45]
Wosny Lambre
One honorable mention and this is a question that literally keeps me up at night. Why isn't Ty Lue the coach of the year?
- [63:52]
Justin Varier
It's. It's a good question.
- [63:53]
Rob Mahoney
That's, you know, what?
- [63:55]
Wosny Lambre
Like, why not?
- [63:56]
Rob Mahoney
I think what ends up happening is the guys that we've all decided are some of the best coaches in the league just don't get considered. Yeah, it's just expected that Ty Lue's doing a great coaching job. You know, like, Popovich never won coach of the year and Spoelstra can never sniff a coach of the year or whatever. Like, it's like with those guys, we just kind of just like, no, we know you're a great coach. We expect your team to do things, even if it's like, you know, more than the sum of the parts. And I think that's what it is. I think Tyloo's universally respected as one of the, the. The best out there. And shouts to my man, Jeff Van Gundy.
- [64:35]
Justin Varier
Shouts is Jeff Van Gundy. Why don't we move along? Just, we have to cram in a couple more awards here. Let's do most improved player, which we might have talked about this on mic or maybe off, I can't remember. But I think all of us were having a difficult time trying to really unknot what improvement means. Because to credit our friend JJ Redick, he had the quote that I think a lot of us agree with is like, a lot of times this defaults to the already highly drafted player that just reached the point of their career that we all kind of expected two to three years ago. John Morant, probably first and foremost the prime example of this. Darius Maxi, a little bit different. He was at the very least lower drafted, but, like, he was kind of on this trajectory for a year or two before he ultimately won it last year. I 100% agree with that. I think this should be more about guys who took leaps based on changing fundamentally parts of their game. Unfortunately, the crop that we have available because of the games played nonsense has completely turned me around and like, I had to go a different route because those types of guys that I'm hoping for just aren't in play. In fact, like, Norm Powell would be a prime example of this. Speaking of Clippers. Yeah, just doesn't qualify because he doesn't reach the game's play threshold.
- [65:48]
Wosny Lambre
Not even close.
- [65:50]
Justin Varier
Rob. So how did you approach this and who did you ultimately go with?
- [65:54]
Wosny Lambre
At one, I have a similar JJ Redikian approach, and for that reason, I think Cade Cunningham might win this award. I think he's going to get a lot of votes. Certainly he is not on my ballot. A number one overall pick who's like, finally getting consistently healthy and has better players around him is not my definition of the award. I gave my number one slot to the player who swung my opinion of him the most this season in terms of what I thought he was versus what he is. And that's a Vita Zubots who all of a sudden is a two way monster. Like was a very sturdy big. Now he's one of the best paint cloggers in the league, one of the best rim protectors in the game. And I think we, you know, we talked about him for all defense. He naturally gets a lot of shine on that side of the ball. Given the way that the Clipper season has gone, I feel like we're maybe selling short the fact that he just mashes people down there in the post.
- [66:43]
Rob Mahoney
He does.
- [66:43]
Wosny Lambre
He gets around the fundamental problem of post play in the modern NBA, which is most guys, even the ones who are good at it, who want to post up, can't seal for long enough to actually get good entry passes and then defense is disrupted and take it away or crowd them. That's not a problem when you put my guy zoo a fucking Mack truck down there, like just park seal deliver every single time. Avitza Zubots, just an awesome player.
- [67:06]
Justin Varier
Can we take that example though? Because I think that's a very important one in terms of like trying to pinpoint who deserves this award. Was Zubotch's progress you think, because of improvements he made or was he featured more because they did diversify the offense a little bit with Paul George out of there?
- [67:23]
Wosny Lambre
I mean, flaky answer, but both. I think it is both.
- [67:27]
Rob Mahoney
I mean, how do you say he's been called upon and I don't know, in the previous years, I don't think there was anything to indicate that this was definitely going to happen. If the Clippers called his number more. I, I don't think that was the case.
- [67:41]
Justin Varier
I think there were a lot of advanced numbers that suggested that his post up game was this good. He just wasn't featured as much. But I do think you're right. It takes somebody to take the opportunity and make the most of it.
- [67:52]
Wosny Lambre
I mean, 17, 13 and three for an elite defensive big, that puts you in a different stratosphere of player as far as I'm concerned.
- [67:59]
Justin Varier
Very good, Woz. Who do you have at Juan?
- [68:01]
Rob Mahoney
My number one is actually Christian Brown, man. And it's because the jump shot has vastly improved, not just in accuracy, but just the confidence that he's taking it and his ability to put the ball on the deck like these are two Things, bro, he was horrible at dribbling. Okay. Like, it was a detriment to the team. Anytime this guy put it on the deck, he's, look, he's, he's not, you know, nobody's going to call this guy Allen Iverson with the handle. Right? Like, we're not doing that. But he's just gotten so much better and so much more reliable putting it on the deck, getting to the cup finishing. And the three point shot has gotten so much more reliable and confident. And like, these are two areas that the team, like, needed. That's why it, like, stands out to me. Like, they needed him to step up in those ways and so that's why he's my MIP instead of a Dyson Daniels, who we just talked about, who, like, yeah, he's having more impact, but it's like, would he, would he not have done this if he just got more chances last year even more offensively.
- [69:06]
Justin Varier
Which he was already good at.
- [69:08]
Rob Mahoney
Exactly. Even Austin Reeves, who I think is like taking a step, but like, it's in line with what he's shown in like the playoffs already as being like a secondary ball handler after LeBron James. Right. And so that's, that's, that's why he's my pick. And I think. And the other thing I will say, I think the actual most improved player in my opinion is Evan Mobley, who's.
- [69:31]
Wosny Lambre
Gone from just vote on it was. Vote. Vote him as number one.
- [69:36]
Justin Varier
I have him as my number one.
- [69:37]
Wosny Lambre
Hell yeah. Justin.
- [69:38]
Rob Mahoney
To me, like, he's, he's actually like, way better than he was last year. Like, he's way better, you know, and in ways that it's like he's like borderline top 10 player better. Well, he just was nowhere near that last year, dog. And I get it. He's a high pick. He got it. He's like a max player. And I understand all of that, but like, in terms of like, the impact is just so much further. You know, it didn't like we could have reasonably, I think, expected this year and be like, all right, he's going to take a step and he's going to be better. This is way better.
- [70:15]
Wosny Lambre
Definitely.
- [70:16]
Justin Varier
That's why I have Matt one, because he has fundamentally changed the entire shape of his offense. He's gone from like a neutral offensive player at best last season to one of the most impactful offensive players and probably one of the most important players in basketball when you consider that he's driving a lot of the success of the best team in the Eastern Conference, just to quantify that. 70th in box plus minus offensive box plus minus last year. He's now at 30th. And so we talked about this at length. Like he just went from one player to a completely different player. And I know that we just said that like a highly drafted player shouldn't be in the mix for this, but he's also had a different type of career where like he made such a stark difference in how he's approaching things. And so for instance, Kate Cunningham, as you guys mentioned, is going to get a lot of love for this. I think Cade is practically the same player he was last year, just more successful at it.
- [71:05]
Wosny Lambre
He's a heightened, more sophisticated version of the same playmaker. He just has more space and he's better at using it and he's really, really talented. He's going to make all NBA.
- [71:13]
Justin Varier
Yeah. And like the floater is much more of a weapon for him this year. So I give him credit for that. And he's refined it and chiseled his approach in a way that I think deserves like consideration here. But it's starkly different when it's just you're getting better at what you do versus Mobley who's com. Like just added a bunch of stuff where he's a different player. So that's why I have Matt 1.
- [71:32]
Wosny Lambre
I think he's a great choice and I look, I love this for us. I love that both of you are giving Evan Mobley love. And me over here, I already thought Evan Mobley was sick, so I don't need to put him on the most improved ballot. You know, I feel very comfortable with my life choices.
- [71:44]
Rob Mahoney
He has definitely because the offense was a problem especially in the regular season. Now it's a problem. Now it's. Now he's a problem with the, with the smoke coming out the nose.
- [71:57]
Justin Varier
Well, on a similar vein, that's why I have Jaren Jackson at number two.
- [72:01]
Wosny Lambre
Oh, I love that.
- [72:02]
Justin Varier
Who made the big jump last year in like changing different aspects of his game and you could argue that like the team leaned into it more or the fact that he's just like kind of chisel it so it's more efficient. I really look at it like if last year was bulking season, this year is cutting season. But the fact that he's doing things so differently and being successful at it, I do think it merit. It's different than Cade who's done similar things throughout his career versus Jackson, who it's more like a, a two season jump. And now he's just way better at it, way more efficient at it.
- [72:33]
Wosny Lambre
Are you bulking or cutting right now, Justin?
- [72:35]
Justin Varier
A little. Both. I have been going to the gym regularly and I gotta say like I'm feeling the power coming back, you know, I love that.
- [72:42]
Wosny Lambre
I love it in power adjusted.
- [72:44]
Rob Mahoney
Feeling the pumpkin.
- [72:45]
Justin Varier
Love that tank pod. Maybe mid summer for us.
- [72:48]
Wosny Lambre
That's. That's not gonna happen for me. But I support both of you.
- [72:52]
Rob Mahoney
Let's go.
- [72:54]
Wosny Lambre
I actually did end up walking back to Dyson Daniels as my number two and every. I take everything that we've mentioned about his development in stride. I think we were already fans of specifically what he was doing defensively. Part of the jump for him is interesting cause it's him getting more confident on offense. Clearly the shooting is still a little touchy but better overall. To me the bigger adjustment is him with the ball in his hands, getting into the lane, getting into crowds and mixing it up. His ability to do that and to turn into a usable, useful offensive player is what allows him to play more minutes. Right. Like you. You bump into that hard wall as an elite defender where it's like you just can't get on the floor for more than like 22 a night if you don't have anything to offer offensively. And so him being a good offensive player has then transformed his defense. Like we wouldn't be talking about him for defensive player of the year if he didn't have the steals total. And he wouldn't have the steals total if he wasn't playing as many minutes as he is. So that's why I was kind of convinced into walking him up to number two.
- [73:51]
Justin Varier
Yeah, it seems like Quinn Snyder definitely made the decision early on that they're going to play through all of those mistakes and he's seen it like make way a lot of progress as he's gotten deeper into the season. He's driving a lot of offense. There was. Who do you have at 2 and 3?
- [74:06]
Rob Mahoney
My 2 is Dyson, my 3 is Austin Reaves.
- [74:09]
Justin Varier
I have Reeves at 3 2, which is tough because like pre trade deadline he was very good. But he certainly popped in the Luca construction of this team. And so I don't know how much to weigh that but he has fucking popped to the point where he's like averaging 23 points a game and like close to 50, 40, 90. Like he's in. We're talking. I don't know if all star is in the cards there, maybe if he played on a different team. But yeah, he's that type of player where if he had the opportunities, I think he would be in the mix.
- [74:38]
Wosny Lambre
Yeah, I think he's been sensational. And frankly, if you can do that alongside Luka Doncic, I give you credit for that. Luke is really. Luka's really good at taking extremely limited players and making them, putting them in expanded roles, maximizing their utility. There's not a lot of precedent for an Austin Reeves type coming in and all of a sudden reaching their maximum efficiency, their maximum output. He's been sensational.
- [75:00]
Rob Mahoney
It's crazy because there are times during laker games where LeBron and Luke are on the court with Reeves, and I'm like, all right, man, let Austin get a try here. Seriously, like, he hasn't touched it in a while. Like, literally, I have those moments constantly watching this guy play. And, you know, the reason why he's not higher up, I wanted to acknowledge, like, that he's actually taking a step again. Like, he's shown this on ball stuff, the ability to get downhill, the ability to, like, you go under screen or, you know, you're basically late trailing off of it. Like, bro, I'm gonna bury a three off the dribble straight up. You know, he's shown this ability, and now, you know, he's getting it out fast enough. I just think he's one of the most fun players to watch. And, like, he draws. And I know, like, a lot of it is, like, the Laker fans, anytime Austin Reaves does anything, he's sort of like a toddler. Like, you know, he paints like the ugliest thing on a. On a piece of paper, and it's like, oh, my God. But, like, he legitimately gets a lot of the oohs and the odds from the crossover and the handles. It's, you know, it's fun to watch.
- [76:12]
Wosny Lambre
He really is new coos, but actually good that that really is what's happening there. But I know we gotta move on. Rapid fire. Ty Jerome, if he was minutes eligible, I think would be a great candidate for this award. Najee Marshall, we mentioned him earlier. Peyton Pritchard. Christian Brown is my number three, so I want to make sure we get that on the record too. Aaron Wiggins should be getting some most improved love. I think Aaron Wiggins has had a six season. Did not know he was capable of that offensively. We love to see it.
- [76:39]
Justin Varier
Other honorable mentions, Denny Abia.
- [76:41]
Wosny Lambre
Sure.
- [76:43]
Justin Varier
Justin. Justin.
- [76:45]
Wosny Lambre
Do you have any blazers on your actual ballots, Justin?
- [76:48]
Justin Varier
No, because I'm going the opposite way now where I feel a bit of shame.
- [76:54]
Wosny Lambre
Bring back Shame.
- [76:55]
Rob Mahoney
Good.
- [76:56]
Justin Varier
Jalen Duran, Tyler Herro, also on my short list. Yep. Sixth man. An award that is complete nonsense. To that point. I'm choosing between Ty Jerome and Peyton Pritchard. And the one thing I find myself struggling with is the fact that Peyton Pritchard has played almost a thousand more minutes than Jerome. But then we get into this weird thing where it's like, isn't success in fewer minutes the whole point of this fucking award? So I have Jerome and then Prichard. But like. Like, I. I have no idea. I think this is the dumbest award that we give.
- [77:24]
Wosny Lambre
It is a pretty dumb one.
- [77:25]
Rob Mahoney
Those are the two guys. And I think Payton Pritchard should have got some mention for most improved as well. But I gave it to Ty Jerome. Like, his season, like, it's just popped in a way. And again, similar to Shea. It just feels like he is the sixth man of the season. Um, and so, yeah, I definitely got him with Payton Pritchard a close second. Cause like, when he comes in, he legitimately. It's just like, yo, this guy belongs with the starters. That's how it feels like whenever Peyton Pritchard is in the game. Like, it doesn't feel like there's some major drop off, you know, between him and, say, a Derrick White. And so, yeah, shouts to Payton Pritchard for the insane season that he's having.
- [78:03]
Wosny Lambre
I love what Ty Jerome has brought to the Cavs this year. Tangible and intangible. And that guy hit some tough ass shots. Like, he is just a tough bucket getter in a way that I did not know he was going to be capable of that. And I don't know that the Cavs entirely knew he was going to be capable of that, but it's been a huge part of their season. I have Ty Jerome on my ballot. I have Malik Beasley on my ballot. And then I was thinking, is it.
- [78:24]
Justin Varier
Let's go.
- [78:25]
Wosny Lambre
Isn't Peyton Pritchard just tied Jerome plus Malik Beasley? He's hitting the volume threes at the ridiculous rate. He's doing like the. The jitterbug offense. So I have Pritchard tied Jerome, Malik Beasley, in that order.
- [78:37]
Rob Mahoney
Got you.
- [78:38]
Justin Varier
Yes. What I have as well, shout out to Isaiah Joe, Scotty Pippen Jr. And DeAndre Hunter, who I considered as well.
- [78:44]
Wosny Lambre
A couple, you know, did not qualify. As we talked about, Norm Powell, OBI Toppin, I think would also be an interesting candidate if he qualified. He does not also. Are we. Are we sure it's not just still Nas Reed? Like, I'VE heard, I've heard 0nas reed buzz. He's basically having an identical season to what he did last year.
- [79:02]
Rob Mahoney
Just shows you the weirdness of this stupid reward. Truly, it's just. I don't get it.
- [79:07]
Wosny Lambre
Also, Malik Beasley might win. I have him number three on my ballot. I'm not 100% sure that he is their best reserve. Shout out to Isaiah Stewart. Beef Stew. Just one of the defensive players coming off the bench anywhere in the NBA.
- [79:19]
Rob Mahoney
By the way, a lot of feedback on Beef Stew where people thought y'all were trolling me and didn't know and like honest.
- [79:26]
Wosny Lambre
Yeah, straight up. I just thought it was bulking season perpetually for Beef Stew.
- [79:30]
Rob Mahoney
Just great. Yeah.
- [79:32]
Justin Varier
Well from one stupid award to I guess just a stupid awards race, we had to finish with Rookie of the Year. Probably one of the worst in recent history. This is real like Michael Carter Williams territory.
- [79:43]
Rob Mahoney
This is Michael Carter Williams. This is what's name Malcolm Brogdon. Brogdon.
- [79:51]
Wosny Lambre
Well, there's no Joel Embiid in this.
- [79:52]
Rob Mahoney
Mike Miller. The Mike Miller Rookie of the Year. Yeah, this is a nasty year for rookies, but Castle seems to me to be the obvious choice here. And then watching him last night against Golden State, I'm like, this guy, this kid is a guy like he has juice on the ball, like he's punting switches. Like this guy has so much confidence. He's. He's obviously the rookie of the year. Think I rounded it out with Risha say and Sar. I guess, you know, I wanted to give Jalen Wells some love too. But like this is. The guy averages 9.5 points a game. Like you know, like 9.5 points a.
- [80:30]
Wosny Lambre
Game is probably like sixth among rookies.
- [80:32]
Justin Varier
You know, like yeah, he's contributing to winning so I had him third as well.
- [80:35]
Wosny Lambre
Yeah, I actually did not find this like open and shut. I think Researcher has a really good case and it's a little bit more either or pick your flavor with the way it ended up with him in Castle. I'm a little more Stefan Castle by type in terms of what he's bringing to the table. But I think, I think Reez J's had a really good second half of the season in particular and has like a little bit more shooting and overall like defensive flexibility than Castle does just because of his size. That I'm, I can't wait to see what Zachary Re is going to become.
- [81:03]
Justin Varier
So the shooting is certainly a concern. I think that's more of a long term roster building thing with the spurs because you're going to need that from him if you're going to to drive things through Fox and Wemby going forward. I think the counting stats without Fox over the past 15 games have swung it pretty definitively with Castle where it's like if he has the opportunity to play on a worse team, he could just put up the numbers that win this award. 19, 6 and 5. With about six to seven free throws a game over the past 15 games. Just playing low stakes basketball, but he's putting up the numbers that should win him the award. He would be the fourth rookie of the year in spurs history.
- [81:38]
Rob Mahoney
David Robinson, Tim Duncan, Wemby and Castle.
- [81:42]
Wosny Lambre
Wow.
- [81:43]
Rob Mahoney
Wow.
- [81:43]
Wosny Lambre
Pretty good.
- [81:44]
Rob Mahoney
That's an amazing company.
- [81:45]
Justin Varier
That would be the third most for a franchise of having rookie of the year award winners. Can you guys name the team with the most rookies of the year?
- [81:54]
Wosny Lambre
It's gotta be someone kind of years. I'm thinking it's someone pretty shitty. Like uniformly bad because they would be drafting high enough, consistently enough, more than four rookies of the year. I think the Orlando Magic might be up there.
- [82:06]
Justin Varier
They are seven.
- [82:08]
Wosny Lambre
Seven. Who else has had like a record.
- [82:15]
Rob Mahoney
Bruh?
- [82:16]
Justin Varier
Want me to give it to you?
- [82:17]
Rob Mahoney
Yes, please.
- [82:18]
Justin Varier
Yeah, Isaiah guesses the Sixers. No, they're. They're not even close here. Warriors at six, followed by the Clippers and Kings tied at fifth. Blazers, Wizards, Raptor, Blazers, Wizards. And now, now the spurs are tied at third with four. Okay, a lot of Chris Weber, Mitch Richmond era guys up there in addition to like Wilton.
- [82:41]
Wosny Lambre
Yeah.
- [82:42]
Justin Varier
Barry and those type of guys.
- [82:43]
Wosny Lambre
Who was the most recent warriors rookie of the year?
- [82:47]
Justin Varier
Probably Weber.
- [82:50]
Wosny Lambre
I was trying to think it hasn't been Antoine Jameson win or something like.
- [82:54]
Rob Mahoney
You know, one of those Vince Carter was doing.
- [82:57]
Wosny Lambre
Oh yeah, right. You're right.
- [82:59]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [83:00]
Justin Varier
Some real old head talk just to. To wrap us up here.
- [83:02]
Wosny Lambre
Just naming some guys. We've been naming guys all pod. Like let us have our moment to name some old guys.
- [83:07]
Justin Varier
That's right. But we will wrap it there. Scheduling note for next week. We're going to do Monday as scheduled. But Thursday's POD will be happening Wednesday night. So we're going to be covering playing and playoff stuff. So we'll be in your feeds Wednesday night if you're true like like sicko and just want to listen to play in coverage at midnight Pacific time on. On a Wednesday. So as you should check us out then. Yeah. Thank you to Isaiah Blakely. Thank you to Ben Cruz. We'll be back Monday, same time, same place. We'll talk to you, then must be 21 plus and present in select states. For Kansas in affiliation with K Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in D.C. gambling problem call 1-800- GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com, call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or 800-327-550 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text HOPE NY in New York.