The Ringer NBA Show: Group Chat
Episode: Mailbag: Old Cores, Harden vs. Wade, Basketball Books, and More
Date: December 29, 2025
Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, J. Kyle Mann
Producer/“Voice of God”: Isaiah Blakely
Overview
In this vibrant, wide-ranging holiday mailbag episode, the Group Chat crew takes on listener questions spanning everything from which “chunky” young NBA player to root for, to classic debates like Harden vs. Wade, the challenges of making regular season hoops matter, favorite broadcasters, and the best basketball books. The mailbag format enables sharp back-and-forths, nerdy deep dives, and plenty of laughs, all in the distinctive Group Chat blend of sharp analysis and fun-loving banter.
Key Topics & Discussions
1. Finding a Quirky Player for a Casual Fan (03:16 – 09:40)
- Question: Looking for a “goofy, talented, slightly chunky” NBA player for a new fan—a Jameis Winston NFL comparison.
- Breakdown:
- Derek Queen (Maryland) is the unanimous top pick for young, talented, delightful “chunkiness,” and appropriate goofiness. [05:06]
- Alperen Şengün (Rockets) suggested for being “a little funky, not quite chunky.”
- Noah Penda, “Kung Fu Panda” (Orlando) gets a “buy low” nod but not recommended as a main entry point as he rarely plays.
- “Chunkiness is always a plus. When is it not a plus?” – Rob (03:56)
- Noted: It’s crucial to pick a player who actually, routinely plays.
- Final verdict: It's Queen, with honorable mentions to Kenneth Lofton Jr., Isaiah Stewart, and Naz Reid.
2. Spurs vs. Thunder and Can the Spurs Skip the “Experience” Phase? (09:55 – 18:18)
- Question: Are the Spurs really a threat? Can they skip the “young team must learn” phase?
- Insights:
- Spurs are uniquely equipped to challenge OKC due to their length, ball-handling, and creators. “There’s just a lot going for San Antonio in that matchup.” – Rob (10:14)
- Spurs-Thunder may be the “rock-paper-scissors” matchup of the playoffs; Spurs can trouble OKC but betting on them to win multiple series seems premature.
- “Every big-picture indicator says they’re a really serious team...Could they beat four anyones? That’s my question.” – Rob (16:23)
- Playoffs will force rapid tactical adjustments that young teams often struggle to make.
- Notable reference to the 1986 Rockets upsetting a young dynasty (Bill Simmons shoutout).
3. Fixing End-of-Game Play, Foul Decline Rule, and NBA Officiating (18:18 – 24:10)
- Question: Should teams be able to decline a foul and take the ball out to kill “Hack-a-Shaq?”
- Discussion:
- Hack-a-Shaq less relevant now; more concern now about officiating and late-game “sludge.”
- “The end of games are getting sludgy as hell and unwieldy. That has to be one of the top things this summer for the competition committee.” – Justin (23:41)
- Decline-a-foul proposal would likely just lead to “keep away” basketball for the final minutes—not a fun viewership experience.
- Main issue: Offensive players grifting for fouls, defensive rules, too many reviews, and difficult-to-legislate “intentional” versus “natural” fouls.
4. Old Cores: Warriors vs. Clippers (24:16 – 29:37)
- Question: If you had to roll with a “senior citizen core” for three years, Golden State’s (Horford, Steph, Jimmy, Draymond, Seth) or the Clippers’ (Lopez, Batum, Harden, Kawhi)?
- Consensus:
- “This is bleak, Jeremy.” – Rob (24:42)
- Warriors get the nod. Steph remains elite, Draymond is slipping, but Clippers’ health and depth are far shakier.
- “Is it just their oldness, or is it that they’re unreliable?” – Kyle (25:57)
- Noted: League-wide, pure old cores are exceedingly rare; aging impacts consistency most of all.
5. The Mystery of Player Development (30:01 – 39:55)
- Question: What determines if/when NBA players “make the leap?”
- Insights:
- “For almost every player who takes a leap on offense, it’s ball-handling. Every single time.” – Rob (32:25)
- Consistency is key—brief flashes don’t make stars.
- Environment matters: spacing, coaching, right kind of teammates (“do you have a big who does big man stuff?” – Justin)
- G League: better for role-player reps with organizations like Celtics, Spurs, Thunder using it well; but as a “pure” developmental league, results are mixed.
6. Why Are the Rockets Rated Higher Than Knicks/Spurs? (43:12 – 46:27)
- Question: What puts the Houston Rockets a tier above the Knicks and Spurs?
- Take: Hosts actually see Houston and New York roughly equivalent—public/prioritization is partly recency bias and “newness.”
- Statistical defense: Rockets’ elite point differential, “proven defense and superstar.”
7. Why Watch Regular Season? Making “82-Game TV” Matter (46:40 – 54:46)
- Question: Convince a playoffs-only viewer why the NBA regular season is worth it.
- Arguments:
- “The NBA rewards time spent—the bond with players and teams grows with repeated watching… it’s almost like prestige TV.” – Justin (48:04)
- You get context, narrative, and meaningful connection that highlights can’t provide.
- NFL succeeds storytelling-wise by boiling things to a few “league-wide” narratives. NBA’s diversity is both strength and challenge.
8. Hardest Teams/Players to Describe or Analyze (54:56 – 62:14)
- Question: Who are the hardest to explain or write about?
- List: Cam Thomas, RJ Barrett, PJ Washington, Deandre Ayton, late-stage Russell Westbrook, John Collins, Moses Moody, Gary Trent Jr. – The “Double Rainbow” players (“What does it mean?” – Kyle [57:49])
- These are guys who are valuable, but it’s unclear how and to what extent.
- Dominant teams and players who are great but lacking in “tension” or storyline also can be tough to discuss.
9. The Ugo Gonzalez (Boston Celtics) Debate (62:18 – 69:12)
- Question: Thoughts on Ugo Gonzalez and the Celtics’ Minott/Walsh/Ugo triumvirate?
- Breakdown:
- Ugo praised for grit, unpredictability, “just fucking shoving guys twice his size,” smart cuts.
- “He’s a baller… can’t teach what he has, which is just grit and determination.” – Justin (62:44)
- Minott and Walsh have flashed but Ugo and Walsh are “front of the line” in terms of present value.
10. Harden vs. Wade: The Eternal Debate (69:21 – 79:39)
- Question: Who had a better career, Harden or Wade?
- Dialogue:
- More than rings: Harden’s influence on the modern game (3s, free throws, offensive engine) v. Wade’s playoff reliability and two-way peak.
- Longevity helps Harden, but playoff “no-shows” are a big black mark.
- “09 Wade season stacks up with the best of Harden’s… Plus, the playoff resume, the modulation (from #1 to #2), the defense… it’s Wade, just barely.” – Rob (75:46)
- Kyle: “Dwyane Wade is one of the most aesthetically pleasing players of all time.” (79:11)
- Justin: “Goddamn, just look at what Harden meant for the game.”
11. Favorite Announcers / Broadcasting Criteria (79:44 – 87:23)
- Question: Who are your favorite NBA announcers—and what do you value?
- Picks & Thoughts:
- National: Mike Breen, Ian Eagle, Harlan, Kevin Calabro, Stan Van Gundy (“the NBA’s uncle”).
- Local: Mark Followill (Dallas), Eric Collins (Charlotte), Michael Grady (Minnesota), Marcus Johnson (Bucks), Sarah Kustok (Brooklyn), Revan Knight (Memphis).
- Ideal: “Combination of knowledge, entertainment, and vocal quality… the best pull you in like you’re at a sports bar.” – Rob (81:49)
- Stan Van Gundy, Brent Barry (analysis), Hubie Brown (legendary former color man) widely praised.
- The NBA is in a strong era for local broadcast crews.
12. Quickfire Star Player Debates (87:24 – 95:18)
- Question: Build a winning team today, all healthy, for immediate contention (ignore injury/salary):
- KD or Kawhi? – Unanimous: Kawhi, if injuries not a concern. “Absolute buzzsaw.”
- Luka or Giannis? – Mostly Luka: “Single most important offensive player in the game.”
- Jaylen Brown or Donovan Mitchell? – Strong cases each way, leaning Jaylen for two-way play and versatility.
13. Basketball Book Recommendations (95:18 – END)
- Favorites:
- Breaks of the Game (David Halberstam) – “The seminal NBA book.” (96:27)
- Especially praised for its “Kermit Washington stretch.”
- Seven Seconds or Less (Jack McCallum) – “Seminal access to an iconic Suns team.”
- Return of the King (Windhorst & McMenamin) – Modern LeBron/cavaliers.
- The Art of a Beautiful Game (Chris Ballard) – “Nuts-and-bolts” on what makes NBA stars unique.
- Season on the Brink (John Feinstein) – Classic “inflection point” read; historic, profane, fascinating, especially about Bobby Knight.
- Thinking Basketball (Ben Taylor), Basketball in Paper (Dean Oliver), Spaced Out (Mike Prada), Kirk Goldsberry’s book – Analytics-centered reads for hardcore nerds.
- Breaks of the Game (David Halberstam) – “The seminal NBA book.” (96:27)
- On books in general: “Reading books definitely takes your fandom to a different level. You’re committing to the bit now.” – Justin (101:04)
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On quirky players:
“Chunkiness is always a plus. When is it not a plus?” – Rob (03:56)
“He wears braces also.” – Kyle on Derek Queen (08:34) -
On the regular season:
“The NBA rewards time spent—the bond with players and teams grows with repeated watching—it’s almost like prestige TV.” – Justin (48:04) -
On the Harden/Wade debate:
“Dwyane Wade is one of the most aesthetically pleasing basketball players to watch of all time. Just a gorgeous, so fun player, especially when he was young.” – Kyle (79:11)
“Goddamn, I just look at what [Harden’s] meant to the game. To me, that matters…” – Justin (73:31) -
On play-by-play:
“The ideal? Eat your vegetables, but it should feel like you’re drinking a beer with a friend.” – Rob (84:26) -
On books/fandom:
“Reading books definitely takes your fandom to a different level. You’re committing to the bit now.” – Justin (101:04)
Timestamps Index
- Start–03:16: Banter; holiday cookies, cookie preferences, episode setup
- 03:16–09:55: Mailbag Q1: Finding a quirky NBA player for a new fan
- 09:55–18:18: Mailbag Q2: Spurs/Thunder matchup and Spurs playoff case
- 18:18–24:10: Mailbag Q3: End-of-game woes, officiating, “decline foul” proposal
- 24:16–29:37: Mailbag Q4: Old cores—GSW vs. LAC, and league-wide “oldest” cores
- 30:01–39:55: Mailbag Q5: The mystery of player development
- 43:12–46:27: Mailbag Q6: Rockets’ tier status vs. Knicks and Spurs
- 46:40–54:46: Mailbag Q7: Why watch the NBA regular season?
- 54:56–62:14: Mailbag Q8: Most difficult-to-analyze teams and players
- 62:18–69:12: Mailbag Q9: Ugo Gonzalez, Jordan Walsh, and Josh Minott
- 69:21–79:39: Mailbag Q10: Harden vs. Wade
- 79:44–87:23: Mailbag Q11: Favorite announcers and what matters most in an NBA broadcast
- 87:24–95:18: Mailbag Q12: Quick-pick superstar duos—KD/Kawhi, Luka/Giannis, Brown/Mitchell
- 95:18–END: Mailbag Q13: Best basketball books
Tone & Style
- Warm, irreverent, nerdy, community-driven; alternately analytical and silly
- Deep, generous attribution for listener questions and among hosts—lived-in camaraderie
- Full of “inside baseball,” callback jokes (Portland, Pokémon references), and a blend of high-level analysis with relatable anecdotes
For More:
- Group Chat returns next Sunday, regular schedule after New Year’s.
- “Listen to us and nobody else is really the takeaway.” – Rob (62:11)
