Making Sense of Michael Malone’s Firing. Plus, Western Conference Carousel Trust Meter

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ringer NBA Show Episode: Making Sense of Michael Malone’s Firing. Plus, Western Conference Carousel Trust Meter
Release Date: April 11, 2025
Host/Author: The Ringer

---

1. Introduction

In this episode of The Ringer NBA Show, hosts Logan Murdoch and Howard Beck delve deep into the recent tumultuous events surrounding the Denver Nuggets, particularly focusing on the abrupt firing of head coach Michael Malone and general manager Calvin Booth. Additionally, they explore the shifting dynamics within the Western Conference, assessing the competitiveness of various teams as the NBA season nears its climax.

---

2. The Firing of Michael Malone and Calvin Booth

a. Reasons Behind the Firing

The episode opens with a comprehensive analysis of Michael Malone's dismissal from his position as head coach, alongside GM Calvin Booth. Howard Beck cites an insightful article from The Athletic by Tony Jones and Sam Amick, highlighting the dual reasons for this decision:

1. Elimination of Team Negativity: The Nuggets struggled with internal negativity throughout the season, particularly affecting star player Nikola Jokić. Beck notes, “This move was made because Calvin Booth and Michael Malone couldn't get along. It was affecting everybody on the team, including their face of the franchise, Nikola Jokic” (Cliff at 02:20).

2. Front Office Instability: The strained relationship between Malone and Booth was deemed unsustainable by upper management. Beck emphasizes, “The Nuggets concluded that we needed a new voice right now for this playoff run” (Howard at 03:45).

b. Impact on the Team

Logan Murdoch discusses the potential destabilizing effects of firing a coach so late in the season. He states, “Firing a coach with days to go is just inherently destabilizing” (Cliff at 03:20). The hosts debate whether this move jeopardizes the Nuggets' playoff aspirations, given Jokić's pivotal role.

c. Introduction of David Adelman

With Malone's exit, David Adelman steps in as the interim head coach. Howard Beck contemplates Adelman's readiness, noting his extensive experience as an assistant and his strong rapport with players. However, he also acknowledges the challenges of transitioning from an assistant to a head coach mid-season: “Adelman has to navigate these things on the fly while competing for a playoff spot and ultimately a championship” (Howard at 17:41).

d. Hosts’ Opinions

Both hosts express skepticism about the timing of the firing. Howard Beck argues, “You don't fire the coach and GM when you have the best player on earth and still have a plausible case to make a run for the Finals” (Howard at 03:45). Cliff adds that Malone's "old school approach" may not align with the modern NBA, suggesting a potential mismatch in coaching styles.

---

3. Western Conference Carousel Trust Meter

a. Minnesota Timberwolves

The Timberwolves' recent performance post-All-Star break is analyzed, with a focus on Anthony Edwards' emergence as a leading star. Howard Beck highlights Edwards' impressive stats and his ability to carry the team: “Anthony Edwards is right there, man. And he's probably like of the young guys” (Cliff at 29:18). The discussion also touches on the team's trade decisions and financial constraints impacting their roster construction.

b. Memphis Grizzlies

The Grizzlies face scrutiny regarding their on-court performance and internal dynamics. Howard Beck is critical of Ja Morant's consistency and the overall team chemistry, stating, “The Grizzlies can't say the same [as the Nuggets]” (Cliff at 43:33). The hosts express doubt about the Grizzlies' ability to advance far in the playoffs without significant changes.

c. Los Angeles Clippers

The Clippers' chances hinge on Kawhi Leonard's health. Howard Beck is cautiously optimistic, mentioning, “If Kawhi Leonard stays healthy from now until mid to late May, maybe into June, I could see the Clippers in the Finals” (Howard at 37:29). However, both hosts acknowledge the unpredictability of injuries impacting the team's success.

d. Golden State Warriors

Jimmy Butler's performance remains a pivotal factor for the Warriors. Howard Beck believes in Butler's potential to elevate the team in playoff scenarios: “I think we'll see playoff Jimmy” (Howard at 47:20). The discussion underscores the Warriors' need for Butler to step up decisively in crucial moments.

---

4. Mailbag: Listener Questions and Discussions

a. Preparedness of Denver vs. Memphis

Listener Adam Bowe asks which team between Denver and Memphis is better prepared to maintain competitiveness. Both hosts agree that Denver is better positioned due to their veteran presence and alignment between the front office and star player, Nikola Jokić. Howard Beck states, “Denver with Jokic is easily the choice here” (Howard at 50:40).

b. Coach Chris Finch's Performance

Henrik from Stockholm inquires about Chris Finch's coaching efficacy. Both hosts affirm Finch as a competent coach without delving into specifics, suggesting the question lacked context.

c. USA vs. International Players

Gerard Carleon from Australia poses whether the best American players can still outmatch a team of top international talents. Howard Beck contends that a well-assembled international team, excluding superstars like Joel Embiid, could potentially dominate: “That team might smoke whichever five Americans we put up” (Howard at 56:17).

---

5. Notable Quotes

• Howard Beck on Firing Malone:
  “You don't fire the coach and GM when you have the best player on earth and still have a plausible case to make a run for the Finals” (Howard at 03:45).

• Howard Beck on David Adelman:
  “Adelman has the trust of the players” (Howard at 07:04).

• Logan Murdoch on Anthony Edwards:
  “We’re going to judge Anthony Edwards based on what we see now” (Cliff at 29:18).

• Howard Beck on Clippers' Finals Prospects:
  “If Kawhi Leonard stays healthy, I could see the Clippers in the Finals” (Howard at 37:29).

---

6. Conclusion

The episode provides an in-depth examination of the Denver Nuggets' internal struggles and the broader implications for the Western Conference's competitive landscape. Hosts Logan Murdoch and Howard Beck offer insightful analysis, balancing logistical considerations with player performance metrics. As the NBA season intensifies, their discussions underscore the fragile balance between team chemistry, leadership stability, and on-court excellence.

---

Note: Timestamps are approximate and correspond to sections within the transcript provided.

Transcript

[Logan Murdoch]

You're listening to the Ringer NBA show presented by FanDuel. America's number one sportsbook is the best place to bet on the NBA because not only does FanDuel have all your favorite player props, but now you can even check out stats and recent performance trends right in the app before you make your picks. Just download the FanDuel sportsbook app today to get in on the action. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and help lines available and listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Must be 21 + and present in select states. Gambling problem. Call 1-800- GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com this.

[Howard Beck]

Episode is brought to you by Shopify. Upgrade your business with Shopify, home of the number one checkout on the planet. Shop pay boosts conversions up to 50%, meaning fewer carts going abandoned and more sales going cha ching. So if you're into growing your business, get a commerce platform that's ready to sell wherever your customers are. Visit shopify.com to upgrade your selling today.

[Cliff]

What's poppin Ruins Logan Murdoch here. Roger wait. Nope, not there. Howard Beck. It's in full effect. He is here after 36 minutes or so minutes of technical difficulties. I apologize, Howard.

[Howard Beck]

Not my technical difficulties. Let's be clear.

[Cliff]

Logan's absolutely mines. Absolutely, absolutely my technical difficulties right now trying to just figure out this mic situation and troubleshoot myself with the limited tech experience that I have. Gez Anyways, a lot to talk about on real ones. First off, like we had it, we had a show and then all of a sudden Raj is not here so we haven't I'm doing this differently on the fly right now, but when we the last episode with me, you and Raja, the news had just come down that Michael Malone was fired and I want to get to that. To start off the podcast, we'll get into the playing stuff later on in a Western Conference because I really think that deserves its own segment. That will be happening in the second segment, but we got a little bit more clarity on the why Michael Malone has been fired along with Calvin Booth. There's a really good article in the Athletic from Tony Jones and Sam Amick, friend of the show, basically laying out the why and the how and all these things and I want to read it a a segment of their piece about the rationale of this firing and it says the rationale was twofold in making this move. The nuggets would eliminate much of the negativity that team officials had struggled to navigate all season. An emotional roller coaster that appeared to be bothering Nicola Jokic in particular more than ever. And throughout the days. I'm not sure what you've been hearing. Howard was kind of the same thing that has been percolating league wide is that this move was made because Calvin Booth and Michael Malone couldn't get along. And it was affecting everybody on the team, including their face of the franchise, Nikola Jokic. And management said upper, upper, upper management was like, we can't have this anymore. This is just not sustainable and it's not good. Based on the more of the clarity that we've been getting in recent days, do you think that this was still a good move to do this around this part of the season? And did it have to be done at this point based on the context that we have gotten over the last few days?

[Howard Beck]

My first instinct on these is always, if you think you still have a Runway in the playoffs, firing a coach with days to go, or in the case of the Grizzlies, you know, weeks ago, is. Is just inherently destabilizing. Like the timing of it, having a change in leadership, a change in voice, maybe not a change in system because no one's installing a new system at this late date, but still it feels destabilizing. And so my instinct on both of these incidents has been to say, I just don't understand why you would do this now. If things are going south, I get it. If you think you're going to fire the coach anyway, I get it. But you're, you're, you're potentially short circuiting some semblance of postseason success by throwing yet another variable into the equation. That said, in both cases, and I, I, you know, we talked about the Grizzlies thing last week. I explained what I had heard about that put them aside. In the case of the Nuggets, it's not just that Malone and Calvin Booth were at odds. And as our colleague Zach Lowe. I love being able to say that phrase. As our colleague Zach Lowe said on his pod yesterday that he did with our buddy Mark Stein, it's been described as a cold war. But, like, cold is almost the wrong adjective. It's like it was like a. I don't remember what Zach said, but it's like, it was like a flaming hot, you know, feud. It was bad. It was really bad. But you don't fire the coach and GM when, with three games left in the regular season, when you have the best player on earth and still have A plausible case to make a run for the Finals. You don't do that just to sort out the GM versus Coach tension. That cannot possibly cast enough of a poll over the locker room independent of anything else. Which brings me to this. Michael Malone was fighting battles in every direction, definitely with Calvin Booth in the front office, but there were problems in the locker room, too. There's no question about that. I've heard multiple versions of this in the last few days, and I think, you know, I think you. You have to conclude it's the only logical conclusion, that what ownership saw in deciding to make this move was we do still have the best player on earth. We do still have the core of a team that won a championship two years ago. We do still have the semblance of a team that can make a run like, okay, maybe the Thunder are. Are the clear favorites in the West. They are by record, but everything else is a jumble. We've got as good a shot, the Nuggets, as anybody, to at least get to the conference finals and maybe even win it. The only reason you fire Michael Malone at this stage is if you think he's an impediment to that, not just because he's fighting with Calvin Booth. Like, we got to use just logic here. Forget intel, forget anything. I've heard the last couple days of talking to people around the league. All of that's relevant, of course, but even just basic logic tells you the Nuggets concluded that we needed a new voice right now for this playoff run. And we think we have a better shot with David Adelman right now than with Michael Malone. That's the only conclusion you can draw.

[Cliff]

Well, it's not even just that. I mean, from a coaching perspective. I mean, there was a lot of clashing within, you know, Booth and Michael Malone, but a lot of that was at least in the locker room perspective, based on the story and based on stuff that we heard is like the insistence on playing Russell Westbrook above other guys that have been more successful in their roles, specifically during the back half of the season. Right. And you have that coupled with just. The Nuggets have been bad post All Star break, just for whatever reason. One of the reasons, obviously, is the infighting, but not giving enough of a leash to younger guys and guys that can really help the team. I mean, a lot of that, you know, the Nuggets get a lot of a bad rap for having short rotations, but that's kind of a Michael Malone thing, right? Like that. He does have a bit of a short leap of a short leash on his rosters. He didn't do that necessarily with a veteran group, but when as he had younger guys it was hard to get get into his rotation. He trusted Russell Westbrook a little bit too much down the stretch, even after egregious, egregious mistakes and kept him on, on the floor, which is another twofold thing because Calvin Booth brought him in. Right. So like it's, it's kind of a, a convoluted thing. But the biggest thing that I'm getting is it couldn't go on because of, you know, the however you. I like Michael Malone, but you know, I was told from somebody like, it's just the old school approach that can't be brought into this new school that can only go to a certain. In this modern NBA, Michael Malone's style can only go so far. The fact that it went what, eight, nine years says a lot about his coaching acumen. But I think a lot of people just got fed up and just, you know, the, you know, Pat Riley went through this with the Lakers, right, where people are just burned out with your messaging. Now the other part of this, I thought that was interesting, Howard, is the stealth recruitment of Tim Connolly maybe to come back to steer this ship, which is also an interesting thing, right, Because Connolly is also the guy that brought in Michael Malone and put into this group. So there's that element of it as well. How attractive is the Nuggets job and who do you think will ultimately fill it? You think Connolly will come back? Or do you think that there is maybe going to be more of a, a nationwide search for a new GM and thus an extension of coach?

[Howard Beck]

I mean, it's interesting because, you know, Connolly also, he hired Michael Maloney, also hired Calvin Booth. Calvin Booth was his right hand guy and then replaced, you know, Booth replaced him when Connolly left for the, for the Timberwolves. Look, the Denver Nuggets do not exactly have a glorious history of paying people at a lot of levels, including their GM or president of basketball operations. Conley got an incredible deal, I think, including. Didn't he get a, like a share of ownership or something? Like he got equity or something in the Timberwolves when he took that job. My understanding of that has been all along like that was not so much Glenn Taylor. Like Glenn Taylor, you know, we know Glenn Taylor is not exactly talking about.

[Cliff]

Not wanting to pay somebody.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah, talking about I want to pay somebody also. Not, not, not somebody who would know that Tim Connolly is the guy you should go poach. That was by, I think, every indication the new ownership group of Mark Laurie and Alex Rodriguez, who really, like, obviously Taylor, was on board with it, but I think those are the guys who really went hard to get him, and they have now finally just won their battle with Taylor to take over, to take ownership fully. I think when there was still an ownership dispute in Minnesota, as long as that was going on, I think it was fair to wonder whether Tim Connolly would want to be there for the long term, given all just the static and politics that was going on there. But they may finally have stability here soon. And with the new ownership group that, for all the doubts that have been raised about them and their financing and all this, like, I think they're fine. I'm going to guess that Connelly is going to stick it out there. And unless the Nuggets are going to reverse years and years of being cheapskates, I don't see them making the kind of offer that would lure Connolly.

[Cliff]

Hey, man, Stan Crockett got an NFL team to pay for. Okay? He has. He has. He has bigger expenses.

[Howard Beck]

They have a soccer team, too, or something?

[Cliff]

Yeah, yeah. Just there.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah, it's. It's. So, no, I don't. I don't see it, but it's a good question. Like, obviously people immediately started speculating, like, would Bob Myers take that job? You know, I don't. I'm.

[Cliff]

I don't know if Bob would take that job. I don't.

[Howard Beck]

I'm a little skeptical, too.

[Cliff]

Yeah, for sure.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah. There has not been a lot of scuttlebutt yet where I think everybody's still processing.

[Cliff]

Bob likes attention. You know, Bob likes flashes. You know what I mean? Pun intended. He likes.

[Howard Beck]

Bob likes. Bob likes California, and who could blame him?

[Cliff]

Yeah.

[Howard Beck]

So I don't. I don't know. It's still so fresh a couple days later. There hasn't been a lot of scuttlebutt yet, and I have not really poked around on this as to who people think will get the GM or president job of the Nuggets when they get to the off season. But, you know, listen, there was a really tough. It's been a really tough two years since the championship, in part because. And we went over some of this the other day. They couldn't resign Bruce Brown even if they wanted to. Like, it's the cap rules prevented. They couldn't keep Jeff Green. They could have kept kcp. But, like, arguably, they made the right move in letting KCP walk. But still, the erosion of the championship core has been difficult. And, and now that leads you to a place where the front office under Calvin Booth is saying, wait a minute, we've got good young players. We think Peyton Watson and Julian Strother and Pickett and all these guys, we think they're the guys who can replace the vets and Michael Malone, you won't play them, you won't develop them, you won't trust them. And yes, Calvin Booth is also the one who brought in Westbrook, which then gave Malone a veteran to crutch to lean on instead. But the divide between coach and front office leads directly from, we won a championship. We couldn't keep the core together partially because of CBA rules and payroll rules. And so you, you, you know, I'm not going to say that the front office did a great job of backfilling those spots because you could have found better veterans than the young guys. And if the young guys weren't ready, like, you have to trust the coach at some point to determine whether these guys are worth those minutes or whether you're sacrificing too much in the regular season. This is always attention, right? You've seen this every day for the last like 10 years, right? Steve Kerr, there's a constant push pull there. Not with him in the front office, but between Kerr and the fans. Play this guy, play that guy. Like, and then Kerr gives a guy a little bit of rope that, you know, they, they, they flame out and then it's like he dismisses them and it's like, oh, Kerr didn't develop him. Well, Kerr's actually done a pretty damn good, like, could he have started giving Moody more rope sooner? Maybe, but like, it's working out pretty well right now with Moody and Pajemski and Kaminga, but they had to earn their way there. And it's always a tricky balance for any head coach of a championship caliber team or a high playoff level team to decide how much rope to give your young guys when the expectations are win every game, make deep playoff runs. And the guys who usually do that for you are veterans. So it's tough.

[Cliff]

And the other thing is an ego thing from Calvin Booth part, right? Because he's like, oh, he's trying to make a splash as a general manager and he's like, yo, man, play my guy so I can be proven, right, that I made the right decision, right? Like it's. And then Michael Malone is like, I know what I'm doing. And every time it's the classic ego class between two guys and I just one of the things that's just so interesting to me. Like, I never seen an owner be like, well, yeah, both of y'all gone. You know, like, all right, all right. You guys can't settle your. Both of you guys are gone, right? And that's the most jarring thing in all of this, right? Where, you know, I. And to your point about the Connolly stuff, I feel like that was put in there to just like, for. The Nuggets are probably saying that through back channels just to save face at this point, right? Like, this is not necessarily like a great move league wide. Like, it shows. It shows. And this is what I was saying about the Memphis thing and why this is. This is. Doing it around this time is not good for the rest of the league because again, we're in a perception based league lifestyle world right now, right? Even if this was the right decision to do, doing it right now shows that you have instability, right? Not only from, you know, outside, from inside as well. Because. And I. And I don't know how much. Nicole, I know Nicola was very frustrated about this, right? But like, there's no reporting or any sense that I got that he was like, yo, make this move right now, right? It was more of just like, hey, everybody's frustrated. Let's make a move of some sort. But, like, you can't just do stuff like this and expect every. The next person, say a Bob Myers, which is probably not going to be Bob Myers, but say like somebody that you're trying to attract, they're going to see what just happened and be like, yo, you just did this. You just fired this person. What is really going on here? And I think the Nuggets, just like the Grizzlies, whether it was the right or wrong quote, unquote decision, the timing of it makes the rest of the league go. Is this organization really as stable as we think it is? So, you know, we'll see. We'll see what happens. I don't know what the next coach is going to be. I know that they. They want to groom Adelman, son of Rick Adelman, the legend, but they want to groom him. And I think they've always kind of wanted to groom him as well. Like from the beginning, there was the Nuggets always kind of looked at him as a guy like, hey, he's in the weeds. He can be something one day. Let's just give him a shot. But on the other hand of that, like, it's kind of hard to give a guy a shot with a few days left in the season and you're going to give him a playoffs with a playoff audition, if you will. That's hard. That's going to be really hard for him to make a good impression either way at this stage of the season.

[Howard Beck]

I don't. I mean, in some ways he has nothing to lose, right, because he was thrust into the job with three games to go in the regular season. And listen, he's obviously got a great pedigree, as you mentioned. Son of Rick Adelman, longtime NBA head coach in various places, notably in Sacramento during their best years, Portland and many other places. But like David Adelman's been on that staff for, I don't know, seven, eight years. He's got a long track record with all these players. He knows them well. He knows what they've been running well. He has the trust of the players. My understanding is that, is that Adelman has, has good cachet in that locker room. And so I think the Nuggets obviously felt pretty comfortable being able to turn this over to him, even though he doesn't have, you know, head coaching experience. And it is late in the game. Again, the only thing you can conclude, I mean, if you want to conclude that it was just like, oh, we're just throwing up our hands, like, get rid of everybody because they're all fighting, fine. That is an explanation. But again, I don't think the Denver Nuggets, with Nikola Jokic on that roster, are firing Michael Malone with days left in the regular season just because of infighting. You could have solved that by just by fire. You can fire the gm. That's the thing. It's, it's. I don't want to put too much on this. I don't want to overstate this. You can fire a GM in April and not have it be that bad, right? We're long, we're past the trade deadline. We're past the time when you're signing guys to 10 days or everything. Like, you could operate with your, with just your assistant GMs and whatever. And if you thought that the problem was just tension, you could just remove the GM and keep the coach that they fired the coach to again, tells you it's not just about the relationship with the front office, it's about the relationship with the players.

[Cliff]

One last thing, though, on Adelman, that is that I just want to note terms when assistant coaches turning head coaches, it's really easy to, you know, be a really great locker room guy and really good with the players when you're an assistant coach versus when you're a head coach, right? Because you don't have to, have to be an, you can actually just be like a, a guy that players lean on and be the good guy. When you're in the thrusted into the head coaching role, that immediately changes because you have to be both the, and the good guy at the same time. So there's, there's going to be some sort of frayed relationship where like, maybe you had a good relationship with a young guy and then you got to play another role. And like, oh, I thought we were cool. I thought we were like there are different intricacies that go through the change of being going from that assistant coach seat where you got your arm around a lot of guys, versus like you have to make tough decisions as a head coach. So that's just one of the many things that Adelman will have to deal with. Yeah, he has nothing to lose, but also he has to navigate these things on the fly while it's, you know, you're competing for a playoff spot and ultimately a championship. It's a really hard balance. Like I think about Joe Missoula, right. Who had to do that balance, but he had a whole season to figure that out. Right. And they still kind of flamed out. Now you're talking about having an assistant coach being thrusted into something. It's April 11th, right. Like the playoffs start in a week. That's really hard to do. And yeah, he does have lots. Nothing to lose, but also he has everything to lose because say, if they get swept, like, are you going to just go do a coaching search? You're going to say, oh, we're good with David Adelman. And if you say we're good with David Adelman, what, what are you going off of the eight years of him as an assistant or the four game sample size that you saw in the playoffs. So like it's, it's, it's really, that's why it's so hard to do this move at this time.

[Howard Beck]

The cliche among coaches is, you know, it's, it's like the move of 12 inches to the left on the bench, 12 inches to the right, however your bench is configured. But that, that 12 inches that you moved seats from assistant to head coach makes all the difference in the world. And it is a different job. So you're right, Logan. And if you're now the one who's benching a guy in the fourth quarter or you're the one who's curtailing a guy's minutes or whatever. Yeah. Instead of you being the voice of, of empathy as like hey man, sorry Malone didn't play you, but now you're the guy who has to make, make the hard call and, and possibly piss off players. So there's that part. But the other thing is you can't underestimate just the personality element here. Michael Malone's a really great coach and again somebody I like a lot personally. I've known him since he was an assistant coach in New York 20 years ago when I first got here. But he's old school. He's old school and he's kind of a hard ass. And we know in this league that you can only coaches who are, who are built like that and who lead with that kind of, of, of style, there's sometimes a shelf life. I don't know what David Adelman's approach will be. I don't know what his coaching personality will be as a head coach. We'll see as these days and weeks ahead unfold. But I think this is one of those cases where the old school approach just wasn't working anymore with this group of players.

[Cliff]

Yeah, see what happens. They play really well against the Kings, but that's the gangs. So we'll see how they do going forward. They have a matchup against the Grizzlies I believe tonight or tomorrow night that are going to, that's going to be really fun. So we'll see what happens. Man, they're going to, they're going to roll with this and it's going to be interesting. No new coach and no gm. What's the worst that could happen? Say quick break and we're going to do a branded segment. Springer NBA show brought to you by FanDuel. It's the fourth, the final stretch of the NBA season and the playoff picture is changing by the minute. From three pointers to steals to assists, FanDuel has so many ways to bet your favorite player. Props. Plus after the game tips off, you can even combine live prop bets in the same game parlays for a chance to win big. Join FanDuel today. You'll get started with 250 in bonus bets. If your first five dollar bet wins, just visit FanDuel.com Ringernba to get in on all the playing tournament action. That's FanDuel.com RingerMBA for your shot at 200 and bonus bets. Make every moment more with FanDuel. Official sports betting partner in the NBA must be 21 years and older in president select states or 18 and older and present in D.C. first online real money wager only five dollars first deposit required bonus issued as non withdrawable bonus bets which expires seven days after receipt. Restrictions apply. See [e-mail] gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com and we are back. Howard. This episode of Clutch Plays is brought to you by Amazon Business. And speaking of Clutch Plays, we're going to talk about Anthony Edwards and the Minnesota Timberwolves who got a big win over the Memphis Grizzlies. One of the things that me, I'd be hitting cliff at like 10 at night or 10 at night, his time because I know he up and I know he wants to talk. Who? Either I'm talking to him about what's going on with topics or I'm hitting them with like some random west coast rap, just nothing but a link. But last night me and him got to talking and I wanted to bring that to this podcast because we're talking about the Timberwolves and we're talking about and relitigating the trade that happened preseason with the New York Knicks and obviously they got rid of Cat. Obviously they took back Julius Randall and Dante DiVincenzio. DiVincenzo White. Dante. Sorry guys, I, I covered the guy and still don't know how to say his last name. But anyways, one thing I wanted to ask you because you know, Timberwolves are playing really well. They're one of the hottest teams post All Star break. Ant is playing well and they've really done a good job. I know they're eighth in the west, but big win and they are trying to get into the mix. But what I wanted to ask you is based on the trade and your expectations of the trade, the expectations of the trade for the Minnesota Timberwolves, did the Minnesota Timberwolves Wolves underachieve based on what you thought they were going to be or overachieved based on what you thought they were going to be post trade in the preseason?

[Howard Beck]

Overachiever. Underachiever. Based off, off the trade. Not based on what we saw like them going to the conference finals last year, but like, but resetting our expectations.

[Cliff]

Resetting our expectations based on the trade.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah, because obviously there's a, there's a, a pretty severe dip in wins. And so by most people's assessments you're going to say, you know, year to year they, they took a pretty big step backward. But no, at the time of the trade, I think I, I was really, I went round and round that week. Logan, like, you know, it was obviously made for financial reasons they didn't trade Carl Anthony Towns because they thought that, that Julius Randall was going to be a better fit. That's not the case. This was absolutely a financial deal and not because they were being cheap, but because they're worried about second apron concerns and being able to keep resigning Nas Reed and Nikhil Alexander Walker and all these guys. Like they had to get their books right. That's what was pushing this through. But then you get to the basketball fundamentals of it and it's like, well, you're definitely a step down going from Towns to Julius Randle. No offense, Julius Randle, but that's a step down. But you're picking up DiVincenzo, who great three point shooter, feisty defender. Guy had a lot of great clutch moments for the Knicks the previous season. Locker room guy, great locker room guy. Can, can handle the ball a little bit. He's not exactly your backup point guard, but like he can, you know, take some of the pressure off of Ant and Mike Conley. So I got it. Did I expect the Timberwolves to be as great this year as they were a year ago with Randall and DiVincenzo instead of towns? No, I didn't. I think they're. I no, like, I don't remember what I would have said preseason or if I did address this preseason. I think they're about where I would have expected. Maybe a little bit lower. But only, but only lower by, by like the image of looking at the standings, right.

[Cliff]

They're close to 50 wins right now. They're like they're on pace or 49 wins.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah, and, and they're, they're seventh, but they're seventh by being in a three way tie with the warriors and Wolves 6, 7, 8. And they're only like one win behind the Nuggets who are in fourth. So it's not that bad. Like if they win one more game, we're going like, oh, well, they're in fourth place. Like they didn't, you know, they didn't do too badly. It's still a step back. I think there was one like 56 games last year. So it's still a bit of a step back. It's going to end up being seven, eight fewer wins. But as you noted, they've been pretty good since the All Star break. They've got like the fourth best offense since the All Star break. Defense has been 13th since the All Star break. But so net rating seventh since the All Star break. 16, 8 record. That's pretty good. That's pretty solid. And Randall has looked better in the back half than he did at the outset. DiVincenzo, I think the same ant has been pretty damn good. Like, defensively, they. The rating doesn't look great, but like, between Gobert, Nikhil Alexander, Walker, Jaden McDaniels ant himself, like, they've got a lot of guys who can play. Dude, like, we don't know where this, this playoff race is going. Right. It is an absolute jumble. The Timberwolves could end up in the conference finals. And we'll say they didn't take a step back at all despite downgrading from Towns to Randall. Like, that's on the table.

[Cliff]

I believe that as well. And I think. I think we'll look back on this season from Anthony Edwards. I mean, obviously there was the, the stuff that we've said with maturity, I think still tracks in the backlash in terms of like, how we feel feel about his actions on the court that have nothing to do with basketball. Well, I think still track, but I think we'll look back on this season as the season that really like, showed at least me something about who Anthony Edwards is as a star player. Right. Like, and a guy that can really carry a team higher than the expectations that we have for them now. For you, like, I think we had a difference in opinion of the trade when it went down. Like, I thought that I really liked it for the Timberwolves. I know that, like, it was a downgrade in terms of, like, Carl Towns, but I thought in the long term that this could be good for them in the locker room or in on court and make them go, you know, I don't know, maybe deeper in the playoffs, but definitely have an effect of. There were times where Carl Towns got played off the floor defensively. Right. Like, and that. That was definitely a detriment to them in the postseason. And I thought that this could, you know, give more minutes to Nas Reed when he's supposed to get him and not really have a class in the locker room when that does happen. And I thought that this could probably catapult them a little bit more. I did not expect this Carl Town season, right. Where he's having these outbursts offensively and things like that. I didn't know that that was going to happen, but I did have a bit of more of an upside. That being said, based on what has happened in the early season, struggles that the Timberwolves had, for ants to really lead this team into where they are right now is really, really impressive. Right. Like, you talked about how good he's been since the All Star. Can we put some stats to that? He's averaged nearly 28 a game. Five boards, nearly five assists. He had a monster. He was so good last night in Memphis in a game that they had to have. And I always gauge games from superstars on that level. Right. Like you. You look at what Anthony Edwards did in controlling the game and meeting the moment, especially in that first half. I think he had like 23 in the first. And you juxtapose that. But what Ja didn't do in that game where they absolutely needed him, and that doesn't give me any confidence that jock could do anything against the Nuggets when they play them tonight. But when to see Anthony Edwards be able to carry a team in the way that he has been really, really impressive. And I think we're going to look back on the season. Maybe not one of his best ones, but one of those things where it showed the rest of the league, oh, this guy could continue to carry a team no matter what the circumstances are, no matter what the roster is. There is a standard that this guy can keep us at while we figure everything else out.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah. And listen, like, stars get defined by their postseasons in particular, right? So I think he's had a really solid regular season. He's going to be somewhere, you know, in the top two all NBA teams trying to remember where he finished last year. But he'll, he'll be, he'll be first or second team this year, probably second. And like, Anthony Evers has done everything that's been asked of him. I think, like, there's always a little bit more you want from your superstars, right? Ah, could you, you know, a little bit more playmaking, a little bit more consistency defensively. You're always going to ask for a little bit more. And there's been, I think, a little bit more on him because, you know, he, to his credit, he empowered Towns to do a lot even while he took the lead. And then he had to adjust to like, well, what is, what is my, you know, what, what's my responsibility now with Randall instead. Right. Another guy who's going to do a lot with the ball in his hands, maybe sometimes too much with the ball in his hands and then figure out how to, how to play with him, empower him, but not over empower him because Randall will take that to the limit, Cliff. Reminding me. And Edwards was in fact second team last year and I think he will be again. But we'll judge him on the playoffs, we'll Judge him on the playoffs. He's still really young in his trajectory. I can't wait to see what this run looks like unfortunately or fortunately actually. I mean, as we sit here on, you know, the last weekend of the regular season, we still have no clue are the Wolves a playoff team or a play in team. And then what's the first round matchup going to be depending on where they land? We. We don't know. But I think all eyes are going to be on him to see like, okay, this is your encore, right? You got to the conference finals last year and you know, trade or no trade, we're going to judge Anthony Edwards based on what we see now in.

[Cliff]

The postseason again, Timberwolves, Rockets is very intriguing is what I will say. Yes, very, very, very intriguing.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah. And that's, that's on the table. It may not happen, but it's very impossible, man.

[Cliff]

I, I just like you put my money on in terms of the young guys, like the Jaws, the. Not even. I shouldn't even say this, but the Lamellos of the world, the, the, the Lucas of the world. Anthony Edwards is right there, man. And he's probably like of the young guys. And it was really interesting to see the Mavericks play to Timberwolves last year and show that the Timberwolves do have a lot and has in particular has a long way to go. But I think he's like second right there. He's right up there with Luca. In terms of the guys that you want as a young guy, Shea obviously is there. I mean he's, he's in a class of his own this season. But really, really impressed with Ant. I just, I want, I really want him to just get a suitable co star, right? Like Julius Randle is obviously a second option, but like he's not really the true second option that you would want on a championship. Just is what it is, right? And that'll be probably his biggest contribution to the team is being traded for eventual second type option. But I really want that for him. I really want that for Ant. Just to have that secondary guy because so much is put on his shoulders, right? I think even more so than Shay, right? Like at least Shay has J Dub. There's really not a guy. The gap between the talent level of Ant and the rest of the roster is pretty jarring and I just want that to be closed a little bit. A last second three pointer. That's the kind of play that defines winners. And when it comes to business, Amazon business is your clutch performer with fast access to essential supplies and flexible purchasing options. They are there when you need them the most. So you could tackle unexpected demands and keep your business in the game. Visit business.Amazon.com to learn more. I live in the Bay Howard, and there is no there. There's there. Is there there. Is there, there, there, there, there. I don't know. All right, I wanna. Before we get to the mailbag, which I'm sure all you guys are looking forward to, including myself, I want to give you a list of teams really quickly. I want to kind of. I have one question for each Western Conference play in team that matters. Okay. I don't want to talk about the. The Dallas Mavericks or the Sacramento Kings or Kings because it'd just be too much negativity. I want to talk about the teams that can actually do something in the playing race if they actually get into the playoffs. So I got a question for you. For each of these teams, we'll go down the list. This is Western Conference only. This is west coast bias. Forget Cliff and the East Coast. Forget Howard in this context, too, because he's a Brooklyn boy. We're going all the west coast, baby. All right, first question, first team is the Clippers. How much do you trust Kawhi's health throughout the next two months? And can the Clippers backdoor to a championship? Is this the year somehow do you trust them?

[Howard Beck]

Oh, this is like an excruciating one. Everything the Clippers have done on the court, especially since Kawhi came back, suggest very, very strongly that this team can make to the Finals.

[Cliff]

It just like Tyler should get some coach of the year consideration. I'm just saying he's not going to get it, but he should get some. He should get some votes.

[Howard Beck]

He was. He was in the running on my ballot. But then like the Rockets surge and ime, like it's just going to be tough. Like between Bickerstaff, Kenny Atkinson and ime, I feel like that's the ballot in some order. But Lou, Lou should get a lot of, a lot of love, too, and he's done a phenomenal job. You know, like, if we could just stipulate. And the problem is we can't. But if we could stipulate Kawhi Leonard staying healthy from now until mid to late May, maybe into June, I could see the Clippers in the Finals. I could like, James Harden's had a really good season and I know all the. You laugh what you want about James Harden in his postseason record in the past.

[Cliff]

That's what I was going to ask You Howard. Can. Can. Can Kawhi be good enough to. To overcome a James Harden on court crash out?

[Howard Beck]

He doesn't have to overcome it. It's it. It. The fact is that the, the. The roles are inversed or reversed for James Harden. Harden always had to be the lead guy in Houston and you know, co lead in. In Philly and it didn't last that long there. But most of like the rap on Harden is a really rough postseason record in Houston. And when I say record, I don't mean win loss. I mean his shooting numbers. I mean his just poor performances. Him just like fading. But that's because he carried such a huge load and because they were so heliocentric and Harden centric and this is not that. Harden just has to be a really great second fiddle or even some nights third fiddle because they've got Norm Powell, they got a great defense like just stipulate health. The Clippers can go really deep, no question.

[Cliff]

What about Zubots being the new David Robinson?

[Howard Beck]

That's been awesome. Zubotz should get some all defensive team love too by the way.

[Cliff]

Absolutely. Absolutely, man. Okay, I agree with you. I mean I always think the Clippers are fool's gold, but they're so good right now. Like they're. They are really, really good and they're coming on at the right time.

[Howard Beck]

Kawhi and I don't blame, I don't blame anybody. Logan, if they say like I just don't believe it's totally fair.

[Cliff]

I don't believe it. I think they could, but I don't believe it. You know, I think that the record.

[Howard Beck]

Is what it is.

[Cliff]

The. Yeah, it's not even that. It's like, yo man, Kawhi is going to play, bro. I was at the game. I think it was game one of Sun's Clippers a couple years back in the playoffs. And like Kawhi was so good in that game. I think it was the first two games. He was so good. He won the first game and I thought he was the best guy on the planet. And two games later he's out for the rest of this. The. The playoffs. That is the quiet experience, right? Like that's just is what it is. I. We'll see, you know, we'll see. They'll see if they can get to the finals and if they win the finals. I'm curious to see the two people on Figueroa that's going to show up to the parade.

[Howard Beck]

But you know Billy Crystal and Michael Pina.

[Cliff]

No, he's gonna be crying because the Celtics lost. All right, let's talk about the Grizzlies really quickly. In a word about the Grizzlies. Yuck. But did the Grizzlies have enough mental fortitude to overcome what their front office did to them with the firing of their coach?

[Howard Beck]

I don't like the framing of this question. I'm not like, I like the Grizzlies did this to themselves. The players did this too. Like let's not like let them off the hook for the Taylor James firing. They play a role in this.

[Cliff]

Okay.

[Howard Beck]

Can the Grizzlies just overcome themselves? Let's just put it that way. I don't have any faith in them. I just don't. The way the season has played out, the, you know, the, the they can't settle on. Well, they have settled on now an offense that's a little bit more jaw centric again after going away from him. But he's had a really goofy season. Partially just I think lack of engagement at times. Partially just he wasn't available for a lot of the season. He missed a lot of time because of injury. I, I just like, I like, like Ja Morant is a really fun player and I think can be a winning player when he's, when he's locked in. Jaren Jackson Jr. Is a really good player. Desmond Bain's a really good player. This is not though your classic like big three of superstars. Like I don't know that any of those three guys are like none of them are perennial. All NBA and normally you need like an MVP caliber player to lead you. None of those guys are in the top 10 of the NBA.

[Cliff]

I see man, like we were talking about this pre pod. I historically have just not liked the Memphis Grizzlies roster, man. Like I don't and I'll just echo what I said prepod. Like I don't like, I don't like Jaws game for obvious reasons. Right. He goes to the cup so much, doesn't really have a jump shot. Kind of gets predictable in the postseason. Hasn't worked on his game all those things. Right. Doesn't stay healthy. Then Jaren Jackson kind of is who he is. Fouls all the time, can be a good defensive player, but isn't disciplined enough to be that good of a defensive player. And I think Desmond Bain, as great as he is, is going to be really, really good on another championship team in a couple of years. Right. Like I just think that he, he is miscast as a third best player on a roster when he's really like four or five maybe, you know, like if he's fourth or fifth on a championship roster, I think you're in really, really good shape. And I think they kind of hit their course. I think they are who they are. I think their peak was in 2022 and think they might be a, at their very peak, a second round team. I think we talked about this. I have no face in the Grizzlies. Anything you want to say about the Grizzlies, Howard, before we get to the next team, Anything you want to say to the people?

[Howard Beck]

No, the only other thing, the only other thing I'll say is I do fully expect there are at best a first round out if they make the playoffs. And I do think without getting into details, there's going to be some changes this off season.

[Cliff]

Whole lot of changes. They need to tear it down. I mean honestly, if the changes that I think you're talking about, they need to tear it down to the studs anyway. Let's go to the Golden State Warriors. Will the real Jimmy Butler please stand up? Will he ever show up? Howard, Will the real Jimmy Butler ever show up? Are you, are you confident even after this? I know that, I know that there was a really, really good into the season aside from Harry B. Out here getting buzzer beaters, you know what I'm saying? But that was cool. But Jimmy Butler. We haven't had a Jimmy Butler game to, to down the stretch of the season that would give a, give the warriors fan base and the warriors as a whole confidence that playoff Jimmy still lives. Right? So are you confident that Jimmy Butler playoff Jimmy Butler will appear at just the right time? Because honestly they need down the stretch Jimmy Butler right now and he hasn't really shown up. They need extra alpha over these last two games if they're going to avoid the playing. And they need Jimmy Butler in a real way. I don't know if he's going to show up. Do you think he's going to show up?

[Howard Beck]

I mean, dude took off enough games this year through suspensions and other stuff that he should have plenty left in the tank, right? I do think that the warriors including Jimmy in this expended quite a bit after Jimmy got there, right? Like they were like they had this new energy. Like everybody was energized by Jimmy's arrival and they played their butts off. But like yeah, they've had to expend some energy just to get back into the thick of things. And my, like it's just the, the rough thing about the west is like, yeah, one loss, one Harrison Barnes, you know, shot at the buzzer all of a sudden drops you possibly to play in range. And you know, now you're down to the last as we speak today where, you know there's two games left, Portland.

[Cliff]

Tonight and the Clippers on Sunday.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah. And it's like you, you, you, you probably have to win out just to make sure you don't fall into the plan. I think we'll see the real Jimmy Butler. I think we'll see playoff Jimmy. I think playoff Jimmy's a real thing now. Playoff Jimmy's a real thing not just because of what we saw in the couple of times that he like almost single handedly dragged the Heat to the finals in, in 2020 against the Lakers and then again against the Nuggets a couple years ago. It's, it's that there's an two things about Jimmy that fascinate me. One is like it does sometimes seem like he doesn't take the regular season as seriously. So playoff Jimmy is really more about like I'm, I'm just kind of like marking time until I get to the games that really matter because I know we're going to be there and that's when I'm going to expend the most energy. So you're not going to get 100% Jimmy in the regular season. So that's part of the difference. The other part is like I've noted this before, that part of what I've actually really loved about his game over the years is that he does not insist on like trying to do everything. I don't have to take every shot. I don't have to have a 30, 35 usage rate. And he's on a team where he can be just complimentary to Steph. But as we've seen in some recent games, including in that loss to Houston when the Rockets just had Steph locked up, that's when you need Jimmy to come through. Now that's the question, right? If there's a night like that in the playoffs where Steph is locked up or Steph for some reason just doesn't have it, the defense has taken him out. Can Jimmy step into that number one role? And look, he's got a lot of miles on him too. Let's not forget like he's what, 35 and hard miles on him. So I think it's fair to one.

[Cliff]

Typical miles on him.

[Howard Beck]

He's got some tibs years. There's some tibs years in there. So I think it's fair to wonder, I think, but I think he'll be there.

[Cliff]

I mean, to your point about. And I was going to bring up that Houston game because I was at that game and there was just a. There was just a confusion of like, this is why the warriors brought you here. Right. And I know there's been talk about him being Iguodala or being a version of Iguodala. This warriors team doesn't need Iguodala. It needs Jimmy Butler. It needs, it needs a high volume rate of Jimmy Butler. Since he got with the warriors, he's only averaging 10 field goal attempts per game. And that, and that game you speak of against the Rockets, he only had seven attempts at the basket. It's not good. So he's going to have to figure that out. I know the coaches want him about 17 attempts per game. That would probably be where you would want him in the postseason. And they're confident that he'll get there. But I think that they. There's a bit of like, well, which Jimmy are we going to get, man? We need, we need aggressive Jimmy down the stretch is particularly through these next two games because it's a matter of the playing or the play or, or getting to the playoffs and having not only think about the playing is if you get to the playoffs, you have a whole week off as opposed to the playing where you have to play maybe one or two games. And that puts a toll on an already old team. So not to bring ageism into this. I do that enough with Howard, but you know, with older teams, you got to. Got to figure it out.

[Howard Beck]

You'll see playoff. Beck, he'll be there.

[Cliff]

Okay. I mean, shit, you're a little bit more aggressive during the regular season than Jimmy Butler is. I'll just say that last two get teams on the list. We already talked about the Wolves and the Nuggets, so nothing there. Let's get to a mailbag. Cliff, my guy. What's going on, man?

[Raja Bell]

Howard, man. What's going on? What's going on? Had a lot of technical difficulties today, but we going to get you out of here. Howard.

[Cliff]

Under.

[Raja Bell]

You got a nice little.

[Howard Beck]

I got to hit the road.

[Raja Bell]

Yeah, you got a nice little east coast drive. You got there. A lot of traffic.

[Cliff]

Yeah, killing me.

[Howard Beck]

Killing me.

[Raja Bell]

All right, this first one is from Adam. Bo. I hope this matches find you all well and satiated by life question with a dramatic and dare I say, ill advised coaching firings of the past few weeks. Which team would you say is better prepared to maintain competitiveness and satisfy their respective star going forward. Thanks for considering my question. Sincerely, Adam Bowe.

[Howard Beck]

So he's referring to Denver and Memphis, correct?

[Cliff]

Yeah, I think. I think Denver. I think Denver is more prepared. I think they have more of a veteran locker room. I think there's a little bit more symmetry between the star player and the front office in this point. Right. Like, based on what Howard got aggregated for earlier this season at our live show, there is definitely a divide in Memphis between the star player and the front office. Right. Like, I think that this was that Denver can make the argument that, hey, we did this in service of our star player as opposed to. As an indictment of our star player. So I would say that. I said, I would say the Nuggets are a bit more equipped in the postseason and beyond to figure things out than the Grizzlies.

[Howard Beck]

No, I think. I think that's really well put. I think that's really well put. I mean, we have no question about. And granted, it's hard to, like, speak to, like, the alignment of the Nuggets front office and coach or front office and star player when they don't really have a front office.

[Cliff]

The owner's box. The owner's box. Excuse me.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah, listen, the Nuggets, as an institution, know what they have in Nikola Jokic, know what he needs, and know they're going to do everything possible within reason and within their salary cap constraints. So I don't worry about, like, whoever's leading that front office starting this summer or probably sooner, because you want to get somebody in place before the draft, whoever they put in place, it's going to be very clear. We do everything possible to maximize the rest of Niccolo Jokic's career and make sure that he's in a position to try to contend for titles every year. The Grizzlies can't say the same because John Moran has not been reliable as a player, as a personality, as a face of the franchise. And we're seeing that again over the last couple of weeks and we don't need to go down this rabbit hole right now. But let, come on, like everything that he's done, defying the league on all this stuff about the finger guns and going to a.

[Cliff]

Somehow he said that launching grenades is. Is better than, you know, shooting guns. Jesus.

[Howard Beck]

I. I have made the argument that, that the launching grenades, while grenades, I guess, could probably be more deadly than a gun. Grenades are comical. No one's. We don't have a society where we actually have people running around throwing grenades. At least yet thank God we do have a gun epidemic in this country. We do have a gun violence problem. So mocking that and a gun violence problem.

[Cliff]

Not for nothing, a gun violence problem in the city of Memphis, bro, like, that's not something to play with, man. You know, like it's. It's.

[Howard Beck]

Right.

[Cliff]

That's why it's so annoying with Job, bro. That's why this is so annoying, man. You're like. And also it's annoying because he tries to take the enlightened route about like, oh, yeah, like this. I'm just. I'm just making a point. This is fine. This is not even that bad. Like, bro, like, you're not sound smart.

[Howard Beck]

He's also trying to play victim. His. His quote the other night was about the fine, which he finally addressed. I wasn't surprised. Just for showing people what's pretty much been evident for the last two years. What's been evident that like, the league has it in for him. Like, come on, man. Like, you've brought this all on yourself. And nobody told.

[Cliff]

Wait, hold on, bro, nobody told you to put a gun on IG Live, bro. Nobody told you to do that and twice in your private life. We didn't want to see that. That's not something that we wanted to see.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah, the. The persecution complex is just ridiculous. And it. And I think again shows a lack of maturity and a lack of self awareness. And it also indicates that he probably has not learned anything since all those things happened over the last couple of years. Which brings me to this. Like, I'm not going to do anything to get re. Aggregated. I've already gone down this road. But are we sure the Grizzlies want to hang on to him and make him the star their franchise face for the next however many years? Are we sure that, that, that, that. That is the. What's in the best interest of the Grizzlies as. As a franchise? And I don't think that that's clear. So the answer to our emailer's question is very clear. Like Denver with Jokic is. Is easily the choice here.

[Raja Bell]

Yeah, he just. Gloria. Got to get him in check. This next question is from Henrik.

[Cliff]

Did you say Glo? Really got to get him in check? Yeah, she can't. She ain't even in Memphis. She on tour.

[Raja Bell]

Hey, man, she popped back. She popped back up every once in a while. All right, Henrik, Lewin Ham from Stockholm. This is short and sweet. Greetings from Sunny in cold Stockholm. Are we sure Chris Finch is a good coach? Henrik? That's It. That's the question.

[Cliff]

First of all, shout out to the motherland. You know what I mean?

[Howard Beck]

Shout out. Shout out to Stockholm. Spotify headquarters.

[Cliff]

Great place.

[Raja Bell]

Fun place.

[Howard Beck]

Cinnamon buns, man. Yeah. Love those things. Phenomenal. Love Stockholm.

[Cliff]

I think Chris Fitz is a really good coach. I don't think he's a bad coach. I don't think that's even a question. I think he's.

[Howard Beck]

I don't think it's a question either. Yeah. Also without any elaboration from our emailer, I don't know what exactly you're calling into question.

[Raja Bell]

So he's calling his coach in this question.

[Cliff]

Sweden. Shout out.

[Raja Bell]

For sure. Shout out. Sweden. All right, this last one. USA versus the rest of the world. This is from Gerard Carleon. Hey. Hi. Real ones. As an Australian who has followed the NBA for the last 40 years, I watched with interest with the non Americans rise over time. With the state of the NBA and international play, do you think the best American players could still beat a team comprised of the best international players? I think the rest of the world would now win pretty easily. But interested in the real one's take. Thanks, Gerard Carleon.

[Cliff]

So is it. So is it like Giannis and Jokic and like one world team?

[Raja Bell]

Whoever decides.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Raja Bell]

Can it be the Americans will have.

[Cliff]

Been even make a game? Can he actually like play?

[Raja Bell]

Listen, man, he just went surgery. He's going to be all right. He'll be back next year.

[Howard Beck]

You can take him beat. You could take.

[Cliff]

Wait, no. Embiid is an American. He's an American. What do you mean? Wait, is he French? He's American.

[Howard Beck]

What is he making the American team?

[Cliff]

Is he making the American team then not a prime. Anthony Davis is there.

[Howard Beck]

If you. If you're just constructing a team. If we just went five on five and you're starting five for the world. Take Embiid out of it. But like Jokic, Wemby, Giannis, Shea, who's our fifth starter? Luka.

[Raja Bell]

Yeah.

[Howard Beck]

That team might smoke whichever five Americans we put up.

[Cliff]

Yeah, straight up. Straight up.

[Howard Beck]

And like, I don't even know, like we could.

[Cliff]

I get five. Five American players.

[Howard Beck]

We're doing this on the fly.

[Raja Bell]

I can get Ann Edwards, right? I get Ann Edwards.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah.

[Raja Bell]

I could get as a center. Oh, yeah. Tatum. Cat.

[Cliff]

Wait, can you get Jalen? No, wait, actually, no. Nike wouldn't let it happen.

[Howard Beck]

No.

[Raja Bell]

What about a healthy Kyrie? Can I get a healthy Kyrie? All right, Brian. Well, Brian, Steph, Brian, Katie.

[Cliff]

But no. Yes. No, no, no. I would say this. The Caveat though, is, like, under, like, 35. That's what I would say.

[Howard Beck]

Okay, emailer. Didn't. Didn't give any age requirements or restrictions.

[Raja Bell]

So, wait, so no Brian, no Katie, no Steph Step.

[Howard Beck]

No Steph AD Tatum Braun, who's our center Cat.

[Cliff]

Defensively putting cat on Nicola Jokic's dog.

[Raja Bell]

I mean, look, dog, Cat production. Would you want bam over cat?

[Howard Beck]

As far as production, we got scoring.

[Cliff]

Yeah, I want.

[Howard Beck]

I want rib protection. I want.

[Raja Bell]

I want defense Olympian Bam. Yeah, I like that.

[Howard Beck]

Not the Bam's a classic rim protector, but still.

[Cliff]

But, dog, we might need Asia Wilson, yo.

[Howard Beck]

Maybe Draymond's up there, yo.

[Raja Bell]

We might need Sarah Strong, yo.

[Cliff]

I would just say this, though. Draymond, Draymond did not have a good international career. And that 2016 Olympics, he was not good. And I don't know if there was, like, extra things. He didn't fit it within Coach K's offense.

[Howard Beck]

But, like, all right, regardless, the. The international team that we just, like, did off the top of our heads just looks insane. So, like, I hate to say it, I think America's getting its butt kicked.

[Raja Bell]

I might be closer than you think.

[Cliff]

I'm trying to go to Australia, man. Yo, all the real Ones. Send me some place to go, and I'll show you, bro. I'm trying to go, you know, I mean, let's go. You all right? We got to get back out of here, man. I wanted to do back the hell out of here. Let's get him on the. On I95. All right, that's been another edition of real ones all, as always, realism. Com [e-mail] real onesmill bag@gma real was noback gmail.com you thought Howard was just on Zach Lowe. Real one first. We'll see you guys on Tuesday. Tap in all the Shout out to Cliff, shout out to Victoria, shout out to Roger. Wherever you are, buddy, talk to y'all soon. Bye. Must be 21 years and older and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino and 18 years and older and present in D.C. gambling problem. Call 1-800- GAMBLER or visit rghelp.com, call 1-888-78-9-7777 or visit ccpg.org backslash chat in Connecticut or visit mdg.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gambling helpline ma.org or call 1-800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text HOPE NY in New York.