← The Ringer NBA Show
The Ringer NBA Show
Memphis Blues for Ja and the Grizzlies. Plus, Kuminga Demands Trade. | Real Ones
00:54:49
Loading summary
Transcript123 lines
- [00:00]
A
Foreign. What's good? Logan Murdoch here for another edition of Real Ones with myself and Raja Bell. We get into the drama in Golden State. Jonathan Kaminga trade request is a top story. Yes, it is. We'll get into the details as of why the soap opera going on with Golden State. And then we get into the soap opera going on in Memphis by way of Germany, with Ja Morant, who is caught on video trying to shoot the fair one with his teammate and the ramifications of that from a league standpoint and a Memphis Grizzly standpoint. Then we get into a conversation of how we should treat our players when they leave the organization and what that means for the organization at large and the goals at hand. Then we get to our ruin of the week. Really, really fun episode. Me, Raja Bell, Real Ones next. Cliff plated theme music. What's poppin? Real Ones. Logan Murdoch here, Roger Bell there. Oh, man. We're in the season right now where it's like pre trade season. I know we had the, the Trey Young thing that just went on, but we have two players that are in the midst of trade rumors at the highest proportion right now, and that is Jonathan Kamiga and John Morant. Let's start with Kaminga first. So I was at the warriors game last night in the midst of, excuse me, in the midst of Jonathan Kaminga's trade request, which is very interesting because I haven't had. I haven't had the experience of a trade request from a player of Jonathan Kaminga's caliber be so big. Can you remember a time when, like, a player like Jonathan Kaminga got this much attention for a trade request? A guy that is maybe like an eight man on the roster.
- [02:04]
B
I would. Yeah, but like, in fairness to Jonathan Kaminga probably shouldn't be the eighth man on the roster. So we could say, like, fair. No, I have it. But like, his circumstances dictate that he's as low on the totem pole as he's like. I, I think that's a manufactured totem pole slot, if you will.
- [02:21]
A
Fair. I just, I mean, we're going to talk about him before we talk about John Morant, which tells you everything you need to know about where he is in the news cycle. Ben Cruz is on the call. He might need to get off of it based on what we're about to talk about. So he didn't play last night. He has like a sore back issue or something like that. He hasn't played for a minute. The last we've heard of him was a January 2nd game where he was supposed to play and he didn't get any time. This was a game against the Thunder where basically all the starters were out and there was some rumblings that maybe Jonathan wasn't actually hurt within the locker room last night. Steve Kerr said there was no rift between him and Kaminga, which, I mean, just, it was just a lot of lying going on last night.
- [03:10]
B
That's what we're doing.
- [03:11]
A
Yeah, Curse said it, Curse said, we're fine, we're doing okay. His teammates, like him, is handling himself well. There was the, from the, the veteran leadership of Steph Draymond and, and Jimmy Butler saying, it's not a distraction at all. This thing is not at all a distraction. We love jk. Meanwhile, behind the scenes, not them specifically, but the locker room is all telling stories about they can't stand him, you know, so it's, it's, it's a, a weird place that we're in right now with Jonathan Kaminga. It's, it's also the trade market is weird for him. The Lakers have shown interest. I know the Kings still want them, the Mavs is on some type of interest, but I just feel like Kaminga, for all of the gripes that he has, this seems like a case of when keeping it real goes wrong. Right? Like, because you're not playing, you are doing trade demands. And this is the season where you were supposed to ball out and show teams why you should, you know, warrant a huge extension in a contract. And this is happening basically when you're essentially on a one year deal because he is on, I think a two year, 40 million. But one of the, one of the years is the play as a team option. So, you know, like, I just, I think that both sides, the warriors and Kaminga have both just very much misplayed this. And here we are. How should the warriors navigate this right now? I mean, they're saying all the right things outwardly, no matter what the circumstances are internally. I just don't know what you do in a situation like this.
- [04:56]
B
When you ask me what should I mean, it's ultimately what they, what should I, they do or like, how should they be handling like they, they're doing what they can do, which is, you know, get up at the podium, lie to everybody, you know, make, make it seem like less of a deal than it actually is. I, I mean, his trade value, I, I don't even know what it would be at this point. But after you've got done lying to us and telling us everything is good and there's no problem here. Then you need to trade him. Like, what the mean that, that's where they're at. You got, you have to move him. What do you want? You want to move him? Steve Kerr does not want him there. They, they have no plans for him. Why, why would you, it would just be spiteful at this point, right? Like, why, why wouldn't you move him?
- [05:38]
A
I, I, I, well, it would be Joe Lavo as being the reason why you wouldn't move him. Right? Because he is the ultimate, has ultimate veto power and he's the reason why he's here right now.
- [05:48]
B
Yeah, but, but like, okay, fair, let, let's dig. Like, so if ownership is going to mandate we keep something on the roster and coach and, and, and, and executives are going to say, hey, well listen brother, no matter whether he's here, regardless of who wants him here, we're not playing him, then there needs to be a conversation had above Jonathan Kaminga, like, then someone, we've got to pick a side here. We can't be. Or Joe Lacop needs to say, all right, I get the point. You guys will never play him regardless. And I will take a step back, do what you will with him, like, get me something else. But we can't live in both of those worlds where Joe link up, wants him and we're not going to trade him for anything. But if you keep him here, we're never going to play him. Like, that's a, that's a wasted asset. Like, why would you do that?
- [06:32]
A
And then like, you're, I don't, I just don't see, I think the, there's no picks on the table for him. Nobody's giving up picks. Maybe there's going to be a salary swap in that situation. But like, I, I just, I, that's why I say over the, the last summer was just so bad for both parties because it was, they were both just trying to win a negotiation as opposed to actually doing what's best for both parties, right? Like Jonathan coming to did all of that and he got just above the qualifying offer and a team option on his contract, right. Like, and just basically kicking the can down the road. And the warriors, essentially, you know, because of this negotiation, their biggest pieces over the summer was Gary Payton, who they resigned the Anthony Mel Melton, who they resigned in Al Horford, right. Who was it was they played against the Knicks last night and Knicks were battered. And I feel bad for our guy, even though that you don't want to, you know, be in the group chat with Us. And you don't love us anymore, but it's cool. You don't want to be in our Knicks group chat anymore. It's fine, it's fine. No worries. No worries. But the, the warriors just have such a wonky roster and there's so much just cloud around this team. No, I mean, it was a. It was a good moment. I think they're 4, 4 and 1 on their home stand. But there's the Kaminga aspect of it. There is the Steve Kerr aspect of it. And, you know, there's a lot of people that don't think that Steve Kerr is going to be back next year and including members of his staff. And so in the midst of all of this, you have to deal with the Jonathan Kaminga thing, but then also you have to deal with what's next next year when a potential pillar might not even be in the building. There's just so much to weigh with Golden State right now. And I just, this is just. I feel like if you want to move forward, you have to cut bait with what's going on right now. There's really. It's really a toxic environment no matter how you fly. Like, whenever I see Steve Kerr, he's the shell of himself at the press conference, bro. I send pictures to group chats, including real ones that he's just like, stoic. There's no life. It's just. It's just. It's terrible. It's a very toxic environment.
- [08:49]
B
Yeah, that sucks. There were a few pods ago, I don't know if you remember, we were. I forget what we were talking about, but I was, I was saying something about the organizations that are well run and, you know, we historically look at them as kind of the cream of the crop in the NBA in terms of getting things right. And I included Golden State. And you pushed back slightly. You were like, I would say Golden State. And this. You are correct. For the reason that we're talking about right now, like, this is. This is unfair to Steph for me to have the end of, or at least the last few good years of his career be kind of overshadowed by, I don't know if personal agendas. I'm not there, so I can't speak to what's going on. But I'll just say this again. And I look at their roster. You mean to tell me, like a Jonathan Kaminga, I mean, I think he's still fourth on their team and scoring right behind like Pajinsky. Is that right? Like, but like by a fraction of a point, they lack like athleticism, long, like rangy wings. You, you mean to tell me that he's not going to play for you? Like, that's a catastrophic failure. Like, one way or another he should have been moved and you should have gotten something back from him when there was value there that you could have plugged in and could be helping at this point. Or we've got to squash whatever we have going on and figure out a way to have him contribute to a roster that lacks exactly what he is. But the fact that we're at the point that you're describing right now and we can't figure it out and it's a mess and Steve Kerr is feeling the way he feels and, and we've demanded a trade. We don't know if Kurt's back. Like, this isn't fair to Steph Curry in my book. Like, and you were right. Like I was wrong in throwing them as an organization. You know, in teams that have got it right historically, they captured it for a while.
- [10:39]
A
Yeah, right.
- [10:39]
B
Like it was run well for a while, but as of late it hasn't been.
- [10:44]
A
I think that you brought up a great point within your point just now. Of course, great organizations function and there's two ways that great organizations function. One is they're just a great organization, right. I'm thinking about the San Antonio spurs are typically looked at as a gold standard, right? Oklahoma City gold standard, right. Where they can. Even when they're losing, they're still making just, oh, I like that move, how they picked that person. That was a nice, savvy little draft pick that you got there. I like what you did right there. And then there's a second version of a great, well run organization which is it's centered around a player, right? And that player kind of is the one that balances all of everything around him is. You know, I think about. They always, the spurs always say Tim Duncan was that person, right. That kind of steered that organization. Like the Lakers when they got post, LeBron, right. They got some clarity on, like, who their player was. And you know, they didn't do great on that aspect, but they had a player that they could revolve it around. The warriors are kind of in that tier right now where step is the great equalizer of everyone's kind of mistakes. But he's getting older. He can only cover up so much and so many flaws within the organization. But he can't cover up an old roster. He can't cover up, you know, malcontent, at least not to this aspect. And it's tough because you look in that locker room, there's really not any. Not to say there's not any leadership, but it's a. It's vets and then there's young guys. There's no in between there that can kind of, like, close that gap. And that's been a problem for the last few years. And you kind of see that, you know, with Draymond storming off the floor, you know, Jimmy calling the mediocre. Like, there's just not any balance on, you know, development versus, you know, striving for, you know, the excellence that they want to achieve. But it's just a weird balance right now. And, like, I think that it is unfair for Steph to go through this and, you know, but I think that. That it's going to be. He's not going to go out like Duncan. He's probably going to go out more like Dirk. And that's a shame. Yeah, that.
- [12:57]
B
That is a shame. That. That is for. For someone who has. I mean, you know, I guess Dirk was the culture too, quietly. I guess they are kind of similar in that regard. But I think, you know, Dirk had a lot of people around him with that organization that were also really good leadership pieces.
- [13:16]
A
Yeah, that. That.
- [13:17]
B
That really facilitated, like, driving culture and keeping things operating at a level that could keep you viable for championships and playoff contention and stuff like that. And I feel like it's Stephen, you know, Draymond's just so erratic. Sure, he's a part of that. Like, I think he's their.
- [13:35]
A
Their.
- [13:35]
B
Their emotional backbone at times. But, yeah, it's just. It's just sad for Steph. I feel kind of the same way about Giannis. When I look at Giannis, I seen him booing, like, back at his fans in Milwaukee the other night up at the press conference, talking about, like, I do that on the road. You boo me, I boo you. Which I felt probably like a. That's like a little. A preview of probably my real one of the week. But, like, that makes me feel bad. Like, because you've tried to be loyal, you've done what you needed to do for an organization, you poured your heart and soul into it. There's obviously a two way street there in terms of trust. Like, they trust you're going to go out there and be a representative of the brand. You trust that they're going to keep putting you in the best positions to win championships. And it just hasn't been executed well for either one of them over the last few years. And for Guys that are that good, they've been just, like, the faces of the league. That. That sucks.
- [14:32]
A
Yeah. And to the honest point, I mean, I don't care what he says. He's going to get moved soon. Like, I don't care how he talks about how much he's going to stay. And it seems like when him. And rightfully so. Right. Like, he's. He's. He's kind of going through the emotions of being of someone that is about to leave. Right. Like, and trying to leave amicably because he's saying everything outwardly facing like, hey, I want to stay. I want to make this work. But everybody around him that he trusts is saying, we are about to leave and we about to get up out of here.
- [15:05]
B
No. And I think, good for him, though.
- [15:07]
A
Yeah. But. But it's also a thing. Like, he don't want to. The thing with Giannis is he just doesn't want to go out in a. You know, there have been. There have been examples of players of his caliber that KD is an example. LeBron is an example of guys who leave, like, their foundational, like, first team and leave it out, leave it badly. Giannis just doesn't want to do that. It seems like when you talk to.
- [15:32]
B
People around the league, and I totally respect that. Like, I think, you know. You know, in terms of your image and your legacy in Milwaukee and trying to protect those things, I understand that 100%. You know, just. He's probably held on there, trying to. Trying to be that. He's probably cost himself a couple years.
- [15:54]
A
Yeah.
- [15:54]
B
You know, so sometimes you got to make a call, and they're difficult calls. It's not unlike any, you know, anything else in life. You can sit there and not make the move and cost yourself some time, but the move was inevitable. Or you can make the tough call and say, hey, we're doing it.
- [16:09]
A
Yeah.
- [16:09]
B
And save yourself the time on the back end. So, like, I. I applaud that in one regard. Like, I. I can appreciate that. I probably cost him a couple years, though.
- [16:17]
A
Yeah, I. I get it. But also, like, you can't play double Dutch for so long. Like, he's been playing double Dutch.
- [16:25]
B
Yeah. Yeah.
- [16:32]
A
That's how I did. I was never great at double Dutch, so I'd be like this for five minutes, just. Yeah.
- [16:36]
B
I ain't never got into one. I looked at a few. Ain't never jumped my ass in one.
- [16:42]
A
You around hit your head. God damn it. Oh, man. Say a quick break. We're gonna talk about someone we always talk about Mr. John Morant.
- [16:55]
B
So good, so good, so good.
- [16:57]
A
New year new gear. Thousands of fresh active styles are at Nordstrom from RAK stores now. Save on top brands like Nike, Puma and free people starting at just $35. How did I not know Rack has Adidas?
- [17:10]
B
There's always something new.
- [17:11]
A
Plus, join the NordicLub to shop new arrivals first. Unlock exclusive discounts and more. Great brands, great prices. That's why you wreck Raja. We are back. Ja rant. Ja rant. Did you see the video of him getting into it with his teammate?
- [17:35]
B
I. I did, I did, I did. Do you have more context for me? Because I couldn't find, like, what do you know exactly.
- [17:40]
A
There's a li. There's a lip reading type of deal. Did you see the lip reading thing?
- [17:45]
B
I did. I actually read lips pretty well. So I kind of got to just like, you've been here five minutes. Like, I'm right here. But. But you know, what was the genesis of it? What happened?
- [17:54]
A
I see there's no reporting on it. I don't know. Like, there's really no reporting on it. I just. It just also look like, yo, what it looked like for me and I. You know who's been around the league a little bit? You have been around the league a little bit longer than me. Looks like to me, him and Vince had like a problem for a minute and Vince went to him and then J was like, let's. Let's scrap. And Vince made a. And. And Vince made a business decision. He's like, yo, we can shoot the fair one in the back because I'm not trying to mess up my bag right now. Like your job, Morant. You are settled. We can do. You can do this, but we got to do this in the back. That's what that was the. The. That was the business decision that I saw, Raja, based on the limited amount of reporting that happened.
- [18:40]
B
Yeah, I. I just. I mean, I don't know, like that. That could have been what happened. I have no idea what happened in either case. This is. I mean, for different reasons, but the same result. It's time to go. This has been a drawn out inevitability. Writing was on the wall from. From a couple years ago. Like, I mean, this is. You've just dragged this whole process out. And typically when we do that, it gets messy. And when you have. First of all, let me just. Sorry. Is my thought just. I just got random thoughts pop in. I'm not as John Morant, face of a franchise, at least for a while. Level of player that he's been in this league when he's at his best. You don't and aren't going to. If you're not in a great frame of mind or mind like just overall mental space, you're not going to deal well with younger, less accomplished players running up on you in scenarios like that. It's just. That's human nature, bro. Like, that is a powder keg of an individual walking around kind of adjacent to the team. He's just waiting. And that's when you're dealing with a semi like neutral, never having been in those situations legally before type of person. Well, he ain't that. He's already been in those situations legally and has had his own troubles in that regard off the court. So he's. He's just ready to blow. Leave him alone until we get him up out of here. And that's unfortunate though, that we've ever. That we'd ever let it get to that place. But that's where they're at.
- [20:30]
A
But it's funny because like, even he's like the other thing. That's a little wrinkle. And we'll go back to Ja. The John Memphis part in a second. But the other wrinkle is here is like this happened in Berlin in Germany. This is supposed to be during an event where the NBA is trying to push their prop league propaganda in Europe. They're trying to get a European league. They're trying to grow the game even more in Europe. John Moran is the face that right now in this particular context. I know Franz Vogner played for Orlando and they played out there and he was kind of the, he was the, the. The. The main attraction. But Job was supposed to be like, oh, we get to see John Morant play in Germany. This doesn't really happen that often. And now all everyone is talking about is one jaws injured and everybody's talking about this video, right? And that is that that's not great from a league perspective. And you have Adam Silver having to ask answer questions about Jaws ability to play basketball and him hoping that they. That he plays in London. Like, it's not just a Memphis thing, Roger. This is a league thing. And how the. This is getting an interfering with how the league promotes its game overseas. Like what. What are they do.
- [21:45]
B
Yeah, this is, this is interfering with bigger business than the Memphis Grizzlies. Now. This is. I don't know. I don't. I don't have an answer to what you do. Like I. There come. There comes a point with These organizations. I mean, I'm not breaking any news here, bro. This happens in people's marriages, in their relationships. Like, there comes a point where irreparable harm and damage has been done, and we can make the break or in some instances, try to work through it and drag it out, and the break is inevitable. They were at that point. You can see that. I've had one of those. I had that with Utah when I'm not going to get back into it. But I've told you what happened in a locker room, though, towards the end of my career, once I had that exchange. That's a rap, like. And what I should have done after I had that exchange in the locker room when I was brought in to talk to the general manager and the head coach and they asked me if I wanted to be moved. Like, I said no, because I was trying to do the whole, like, yo, I don't want to be a bad dude in this, man. Like, I'll stick this out. And I said, I don't. I don't have a problem. I'll stay. You know, if you guys want me here, you know, I want to be here. And that was the wrong thing to do because that relationship was over.
- [23:03]
A
Yeah.
- [23:04]
B
And everybody, Everybody knew it. I, you know, at the time I did it. But that's where they. They were at that point. I mean, when, When. When they changed the coach, they started having the issues with him playing less pick and roll, wanting the ball.
- [23:18]
A
That was last year.
- [23:18]
B
I mean, this was well documented that we're only getting that version of it. Imagine what's going on behind closed doors by way of meetings with ja, with ownership, with. With. With front office JAWS agents that. It's a mess. I guarantee you it's a mess. They've known this and you've just dragged your feet.
- [23:36]
A
I just want to give a victory lap or throw a victory lap to Howard Bex Way because he said all this stuff a year ago, which means it was bubbling before the surface. Which leads to my next question for you. What is the right time to say goodbye in that way? Right. Did you say it? Because JA is obviously a not only organizational pillar, but a pillar in that community. Right? Like, you know, you go to Memphis is all JAMA ran jerseys.
- [24:03]
B
That's.
- [24:03]
A
That is what that region is about. But how do you. When do you start saying, ah, we need to. We need to move on as opposed to like, oh, man, we should probably try to work this out. Like, you say, it shouldn't drag on this long. When is the Time when they should have just been like, okay, we're going to strike while the iron's hot. Let's trade them. Let's get out, get it out, get from out of the Ja Morant business.
- [24:27]
B
It's a good question, but it's not always as simple as that, Logan, because there are optics involved. And when John Morant is the face of something. Now, I can't say for sure that this is anything that was talked about in the Memphis offices or for that matter, with me in the Utah offices, but what they did to me was. Went about after I said, I'll stay and I did not want to be traded. They went about making my life as miserable as possible to get the worst version out of me. So when you do that to me, like, then the fans are like, well, he's an asshole. And so it becomes a me problem, less than a we problem. And as it relates to John Morant, the organization would catch all kind of hell if a good citizen, like, if a good teammate and a good player, John Morant, is just shipped away. So if you make his life a living hell and he starts to act like an asshole, it becomes a lot more palatable for a fan base to be like, hey, man, get him up out of here. And I can't guarantee that that's what happened. But to answer your question, it's not always as simple as, when should it be done? They knew it and probably should have done it as soon as you had those conversations about, yo, I don't like this. I don't like this coach. You clearly see he don't like me. Our styles don't mix. You've chosen to bring him in here. Once you do that, and you've got a month, sample size denoted. Those two don't mix. I mean, you know, but how you execute that is sometimes a bigger, you know, more difficult question and how palatable it becomes for, like, your. Your fans and how you can, you know, control the narrative of what's going on to some degree.
- [26:18]
A
Well, my question is this. And that made me think about the Jonathan Kaminga situation as much as it made me think about the John Moran situation. Okay. Yeah, one hand. You. They. They said they wanted to be here, and you make their life a living hell. But you're also eroding a Raja Bell's trade value. You're also eroding a John Morant's trade value, eroding a Jonathan Kamingo's trade value in the process. So, like, it doesn't. Yeah, I get it. You Want to be vindictive, but it doesn't behoove you to be vindictive because it's up your team.
- [26:47]
B
Yeah, I mean, look, I was a little different story because I was older, but you're absolutely right because, you know, I had people at the end of that and I knew from, from people on staff like, hey, they're gonna bring you in here. And I'd be in shape, ready to go. And then it would get back to my agent that, like, well, we're not sure that he's really, really gonna accept, you know, the role that we have for him. And I'm like, what? What? Like, I've never, I've never had. I've never had a problem with that. But I had been put in a situation where I devalued my. Like I devalued myself with the contribution from them. Right. And that's what happens. You know, mine was different because I was old. You weren't getting from me anyway. But that's why I'm saying with these two situations when there was value. Move it. You already know, you know where this is going. Get out while you can. Get something back for, for the player.
- [27:35]
A
I just don't know where they go. Like, I mean, I know Miami is, is out there, but they're telling everybody behind the scenes that they don't want.
- [27:43]
B
To trade for him.
- [27:43]
A
At least that's what they're saying. Right. Milwaukee's just desperate for any back court help, so, like, maybe, you know, they'll make a last this effort, but that just seems. He's played 18 games this season, Roger. John Moran has. Like, I've seen more highlights of him this season in street clothes, talking shit to the opposition than I've seen highlight dunks. And I'm serious. Like, he had a. He had a great game against the Sixers. Like, he had the 40 point game against them. They lost that game, by the way. But like, I just don't. It would take a monumental shift in his mindset that I just don't see happening in a new place. Right. Like every one of his press conferences that I see, he's just defiant. He's. He. I don't know, it doesn't seem like he is ready for a change and maybe a change of scenery can give that. But like, I just don't see it at this very moment.
- [28:43]
B
Well, again, this is deep and I don't mean to be. But you're not. Like, this is what I'm saying to you and forgive me, because I'm not Trying to be a conspiracy theorist here, it's not really in my nature. But that's what you're supposed to see when they. That's what that. If that's the plan, right? If the plan that I articulated and and and theorized could be in, in action, right. If that has been executed, you're supposed to feel exactly like you feel right now, like he's. He'll. He won't buy in anywhere he goes, like, this is going to be a mess. Now to your point, it's not in their best interest to necessarily do that in terms of recouping assets, but it does become a lot easier for you to, to sell to your fan base. Got to get rid of, of. Of a player of, of John Morant's ability and level. And like, listen, man, John Morant when he's playing well is electrifying to the point you made. Like, I mean everybody walking around Memphis has a John Morant jersey on. So you've. He now looks like he won't. I would say to that. I mean he won't be able to fit in anywhere because of his attitude and style. Sometimes bad situations will bring out the worst in people.
- [29:53]
A
Yeah.
- [29:54]
B
Now I've. I've criticized JA at lengths on this pod and I will call a spade a spade as it relates to all of that off the court stuff, the guns, the, you know, any number of things you can go back and find. I don't apologize for Ja. I do have familiarity and know what it's like to be in a situation that you are miserable in and you have been made to feel miserable and unwanted in and have that bring out the worst in you and just say, hey man, if I could just get out of here. This isn't exactly who I am, but I can't. This is how I am right now and I can't help it. Right? And that sounds like a. It sounds like an easy thing. I'll just change the way you act. Okay, cool. I will for a minute. And then here they come with this bullshit again. And guess where I'm back to, you know?
- [30:42]
A
And so like here come Vince Williams again, man. I told him I was trying to chill. I told him, bro, here we go.
- [30:48]
B
Yeah, that. But you like that shit happened to me, bro. Like I told, Listen, man, not to turn this into. Jerry Sloan was my coach. Jerry Sloan, Utah Heavy anthem. People like, you know, this is a, this is a state where, hey, you're gonna be out there for the anthem.
- [31:06]
A
Absolutely.
- [31:07]
B
I have no problem with the anthem. I had no Problem with the anthem. But I had a habit of. And I used to get the BGs a little bit when I first got into the league. So, like, I go in the back.
- [31:17]
A
Because you drink all that goddamn coffee.
- [31:19]
B
Yeah, I drank a lot of coffee, right. But, like, it turned into my habit where I would be back there and, you know, just come out after the anthem was over. Jerry Sloan had no problem with that. Jerry and I had a conversation about it. He was like, yeah, do what you do. Not an issue. I never had a problem anywhere I went. This was mid season, like, out of the blue, I get called into an office to talk to our new head coach about why I'm not out there for a national anthem. And now he'd been on the staff with Jerry, so he already knows why I'm not back there, because I didn't done it for 25, 30 games. And you were there the year before when I did it. But he went about to make it his mission and let me know that's not going anymore. You're coming out fine.
- [31:58]
A
Not a problem.
- [32:00]
B
Halftime comes, you're walking by. Most. Most arenas have a family room right now in some arenas, they're not accessible to you as you walk to the court, because they're kind of off in the cut.
- [32:10]
A
Yeah, right.
- [32:11]
B
As it was, Utah's was directly in the path of you walking back to the court. So my little dudes were like, Dia was pre K and Ty was probably like 2. And we had just had Zen. Zen was a baby. So, you know, I would go in, boom, as we're passing, been to the meeting, been to the halftime speech, going in, give my wife a kiss, give my little boys a kiss, go back out to the court and warm up. Done it for my whole career. Did it in Phoenix. Did it while this dude was an assistant. Now all of a sudden, I got to come in and answer questions as to why I'm in a family room talking to my wife at halftime of a game, to which I explained really naive and innocently, like, hey, not a big deal. That's what I do all the time. Oh, well, you gotta understand how that would be perceived if. If it looks like you're in there, I mean, just going out of your way to make my life miserable. Do you understand what I'm saying, Logan? So, like, I am a professional in this, and so I'll just say again, I can't guarantee you John Moran will go somewhere and be a better version of himself, but there's a chance that his life is so miserable there in Memphis that he just can't get right.
- [33:23]
A
Yeah, that's a good point. I mean, for whatever reason, like, they kicked his homies off the. Off the court side, I think in the last couple of years, it's not the Memphis that he. That he inhibited when he was drafted.
- [33:36]
B
We could say that.
- [33:39]
A
Let's take a quick break, man. We're talking about how franchises should treat their franchise pillars. Okay. Two things happened this week that I wanted to get your take on. Kyle Lowry got a standing ovation in Toronto, as he absolutely should. He helped get them a title, their only title in franchise history. And same with Kevin Love, who won a title in Cleveland. You were there. Actually, you weren't there. That was the next year.
- [34:09]
B
No, you were.
- [34:10]
A
Yeah, you left and then had a great career. Not only got the title in Cleveland, stayed in Cleveland for much of his career, even after LeBron left again. But it got me to thinking, and it's funny that we're talking about this on the heels of our last segment where it got kind of gloomy, but what is the appropriate way. And I think about, like this one, ja, like down the line, right? What is the appropriate way to treat not only your stars of your organization when they're gone and they have retired and moved on, but also your other players and other role players or just people that's within your organization once they leave. How is, how important is that and why is that so important?
- [35:03]
B
Yeah, I mean, obviously you're not going to treat your. Your role guys like you. You treat your stars right, like they're. That. That's. I mean, that's not. That's not real world. I do think that most NBA teams, if you've been a member of their franchise and their brotherhood, have an open door type of policy, as long as it didn't end terribly with them. Where, you know, if you want to come back, come to a game, be around and stuff like that. I think. I think that most of them are amenable to that. I told you guys, like the Sixers, the 01 team, I'm getting texts right now about whether or not I'm going to be in Philly to kind of celebrate that and stuff, stuff like that.
- [35:42]
A
And that's.
- [35:42]
B
And that's fun. And I meant nothing, you know, like, I was the low man on the totem pole at that time. So teams typically will look out for you as far as their stars go. You want those guys around as much as possible. It is. It is great for. For culture. It's great for Optics, It's. It's within the building. Team wise, it's as important, I would say maybe slightly less for fans. Like, they, they are the people that a lot of those fans grew up on. The reason why they're fans of your team, the reason why they're ticket holders and season ticket holders now. Seeing them, having access to them, having them around your building is really, really important. And so, you know, I, Kyle Lowry, I, I know both of them not well, but, like, I spent time around both of them. Like, Kyle was at Villanova when I was with the Sixers, and, And I've watched his career. I see him sometimes down in Miami when he's working out. He.
- [36:45]
A
He.
- [36:46]
B
I mean, he got like, every ounce out of what you could get for a dude of his stature, athletic ability. And this isn't a slight, like, because he was a good athlete and stuff, but, I mean, he squeezed every ounce out of that. He was an amazing. An amazing point guard for those teams. Kevin Love made the ultimate sacrifice to play with LeBron and Kyrie in Cleveland. I mean, you can go back and look up what was going on with him when LeBron was talking about fit, fit out, don't fit in. I mean, Kevin Love was lost for a while trying to figure out how he could make that work because he was making such a huge sacrifice in terms of who he was as a player, player, and he did that. And he won championships because of it, and they won championships because of it. And so treating them with, with standing ovations and videos and, and things like that years later when they return is. It's a special thing for them and, and they deserve it.
- [37:45]
A
Yeah, no, it's funny because, like, we're seeing both sides of that. I think this season we're seeing what I just described as with Kyle Lowry and with Kevin Love, of what you would want out of, you know, how you treat your stars. And then last year, you know, you see what's happening with Dirk in the Mavericks right now, and just, it feels like there's this, even a growing, growing divide between those two entities. And that sucks, right? And, like, I think others like it helps because you just want for the fan bases you describe, but it also helps future players. I always think about. I always think about not even just the how you treat your stars, but, like, the facilities and things like that. You are always. There's always abc. You always be cruden and superstars from other teams see how you treat the, the people in your locker room and the, the players that you were, you Know, saying that you love and, you know, I think about what's happening with Dirk right now and like, no matter how the Mavericks are, you're see, you're going to see, you know, future. And it's not just the Mavericks, but, you know, you're going to see future players be like, man, I see how you treated bruh. How am I going to get treated? You know, that's why, you know, you see good examples of things that, you know, maybe it's not great for the salary cap, but maybe like, you know, you give that star player that extra contract to, you know, show, hey, what you mean to us. Now, that's might be sacrificing some wins on the other end, but, you know, it may help us in on the back end and also it shows that you're part of this group. But I think that, like, I think about with Ja, like, what is his relationship going to be with Memphis going forward? You know, that's going to be tough, right? Like, that's. Yeah, that's not. That's not. It's not. That's not great for any party involved.
- [39:44]
B
No, that. That's. Yeah, that's. That's unfortunate. I'm trying to think of. I think Darren and Jerry were like that a little bit. I think they mended the fence a little bit before Jerry passed, but it.
- [39:55]
A
Feels like he got a weird relationship with Utah. Right?
- [39:58]
B
Who's that? Darren.
- [39:59]
A
Darren. Yeah.
- [40:01]
B
I can't really speak to, like, his relationship. I think he's good there. I think he. I know he really liked playing there. Like, I play golf with him and hang out. Like, I know he liked it there. It just. I wasn't there when the erosion of the relationship started. I just was there when it came to a head. But I think they. I think I remember them kind of having to sit down and kind of mending fences. But, like, that always sucks when someone means to a franchise what Ja has meant to Memphis and what Darren meant to Utah, what Dirk meant to, like, the Mavs. Like, you want those relationships intact, you want them around. You are correct, Logan. It speaks to future potential stars. It just goes to your overall culture. Like, if we're preaching and trying to sell family, well, we got to keep family close.
- [40:55]
A
Yeah.
- [40:55]
B
You know, like, it's the same in college, you know, organizations. Like, you know, I grew up a Hurricane fan. I say this, you know, all the time. My dad was an associate AD there. Like, I grew up on the campus. And a lot of those, that corridor of time when they were winning championships are either my older brothers, my brothers, or my younger brothers. Right. So, like, one of the most special things about that place, specifically during that time was big bros were always around.
- [41:23]
A
Yeah.
- [41:23]
B
Like grandpa. Like, those dudes were always present and welcome. And it fostered like, a real. A real family environment where. Where it's bigger than hoops or bigger than football for them. And you want that within an NBA organization just like any.
- [41:41]
A
I mean, you're seeing that right now with Michael Irvin. You're seeing that with Michael Irvin right now with University of Miami. Which is. Which is. Which is awesome and hilarious and a lot of things.
- [41:51]
B
Calm his ass down. He didn't calm his ass down, bro.
- [41:54]
A
I can tell you one thing. If they win, hey, if they win the whole thing, he's not calming down.
- [42:00]
B
Yeah, no, he ain't coming like that. As a matter of fact, Mike, they win the whole thing. Yo, somebody send me an invite, I'll come through.
- [42:06]
A
How you feeling about that right now? Real quick, we're deviating, but how do you feel about that?
- [42:10]
B
Are you like, I got that one. I got to win in the national championship? I don't know.
- [42:17]
A
Okay, that. Okay, that's what I got.
- [42:19]
B
Are you asking me about. About Michael Irvin or you?
- [42:21]
A
No, no, no. The Canes. The Canes. The Canes.
- [42:24]
B
Yeah. No, I got them on the national championship. Indiana's fantastic. I'm not throwing any shade. Watch.
- [42:31]
A
Okay. Okay. How I do want to ask though, like, because I think about Phoenix when I. When. As it relates to this discussion and you. Right. I feel like when, you know this, this could be helpful for ja. Right. Like, I'm thinking about, like, the future and how he's going to be perceived in Memphis and how the organization is going to treat him and like, bending fences and things like that. And I'm thinking about you and a lot of players in Phoenix during this new ownership versus this old ownership. How have they kind of done a. Kind of a 180 in terms of how they treat alumni? Like, how has that been for you? You haven't gotten out to Phoenix. Maybe, maybe next Ben Cruz is on the call. Maybe next year during All Star, we can do something in Phoenix. But what has that been like for you? Like, what is that relationship?
- [43:23]
B
No, it's been. It's been great. And I haven't, you know, I typically have juggling a lot of balls around here in terms of schedules and trying to be at all my kids stuff. It's. That's why I chose to do this job instead of, you Know the one I was doing with the Cavs. So a lot of times I will say no to things that people from the outside would be like, why wouldn't you be? It's because I want to be in one of my kids things. Right. That's important to me. But the Suns have made every effort, multiple efforts over the course of years to invite me, to make me feel like I'm a part of it, and to extend invitations to things that. That should I want to come out, I would be welcome to come out with my family and my wife. And that does mean a lot. Siola is the young lady's name that I deal with. And they've been awesome as an ownership group and I'm sure it has to come from them. And, you know, I have not taken them up on that in a way that I probably should, if I'm being honest. But I think we might try to make a trip out there this year and it's been fantastic. Like, before new ownership, I hadn't heard a thing from the Suns. Now again, I was only with the Suns for, For three years. I don't have a true legacy with any particular team. So if you were to not invite me around, like, I wouldn't feel any kind of way about that, and I did not feel any kind of way about it. But it does feel pretty cool that they do that.
- [44:50]
A
I'm going to push back on you saying you don't have a real legacy out there. Because I've been to Phoenix over the last. You're on the wall. Like, you're they. They with. You're still one of the guys at. In Phoenix, bro. People with you. When I go there, there'll be people that recognize me like, yo, what's up with Rosa? What's going on? Like, yeah, they with you, bro.
- [45:08]
B
Well, no, I appreciate that. I'm just, I'm just, I'm saying, like, I, I wasn't, you know, I'm not like Dan Marley out there or Kevin Johnson or, you know, like, I was a. I was a player that played there for a. A cool time for a short period of time. And if, if like I, they still hold a really near and dear place in my heart. But like, I'm not one of those guys that you would say, hey, we gotta have a round. That's all I'm saying. You know what I mean? But it's very cool that they make the effort and extend the invitation. Like, it means a lot.
- [45:38]
A
So you might see Raja at a Suns game or, and. Or a Sixers game this season. You're getting out of the house. I don't believe. I don't believe it till I see it.
- [45:47]
B
I don't believe it yet either, but we'll. We'll see, because I also might not get on a flight. Who knows? Like, I might. You might think I'm getting on a flight, and I just might not make the flight. So I don't know.
- [45:56]
A
You're. You're triggering me right now, sir. You're triggering me. All right. Okay, let's level set. Let's get to a segment that we do every Friday called Real One of the Week, where we push before we present. Excuse me. An award to a person, an entity, an organization that won the week. Raj, you go first.
- [46:21]
B
I did two last week. I. I have two again. But, like, this is A. A1A and A1B. Like, one is clearly more real than the other one. Like, the Miami Hurricanes have to be Real Ones of the Week. I've given it to Crystal Ball before, but now we're in national championship dog. Like, this happening. We bought to be national champions. Like, I say we like, like, but it's not we anymore. Fairness, right? Like, I'm a Texas longboard, but I still have. I still have, like, real deep.
- [46:45]
A
Like, are you gonna. If they win it, are you gonna win? Are you gonna win? Get a ch. Are you gonna get the shirt? Are you gonna get the hat?
- [46:50]
B
Nah, I can't. I can't. Listen, bro. Like, sorry, Miami Hurricanes fans, I still love the Canes, but, like, my allegiances lie elsewhere, you know, as it relates to college football now, so. But I still rock with the Canes. And, like, if you're playing anybody other than the Texas Longhorns, I. I'm with you. My True Real One of the Week. I touched on Giannis. I. I fuck with you booing back. I like that. I think that. I like.
- [47:17]
A
What was your reaction when you saw that? Were you just, like. Were you clapping? Were you tearing up? Where did you. How did you think when you. When you saw that?
- [47:25]
B
No, I was just, like. I gave myself just a little nod. Just a little, like, yep, yep, been there. That's real. That's. That's real. I didn't have the juice, so I couldn't necessarily do that, but he does, and good for him, and I like that he got up there and said, hey, I do it to my opposing fans when they boo me, and why would I change that for the home fans? Like, if you ain't riding with me and you're Booing me. I'm booing you back. I was cool with that.
- [47:49]
A
He's also like, yo, I'm breaking my back here to do everything that I can, and you booing me and you're booing me. Are you serious right now?
- [47:59]
B
Yeah, yeah, I got down with the boo back.
- [48:02]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Shout out to the booback. Hashtag. Booback. Hashtag. All right, My ruin of the week is. Is close to home. I'm gonna give it to Ryan COOgler, who won two Golden Globes over, I think it was last weekend. Also, shout out to. To Amy Poehler, got the podcast award. First ever podcast in Golden Globe. The ringer. Good. Hang with Amy Poehler. Shout out to you. But you are not, in this context, real one of the week, but shout out to you. But, man, like, Ryan has just been such an inspiration, man. And like, you know, I've, you know, I've known him for a long time now, and he's always just been accessible with advice and just, honestly, just in inspiring a lot of people. Like, I remember, you know, he. I'm really close with his younger brother, Keenan. He's one of my best friends. And I remember always talking about, oh, man, your big bro who's going to usc, like, that's cool. He's, like, doing what John Singleton was doing, right? Like, he's going to USC film school and like, okay, that's cool. Let's see what he does, right? And then to see him, like, stand outside of Merit or stand outside of Grand Lake Theater at the premiere of Fruitvale Station, just, like, greeting people and, like, then see him ascend into what he is today, man, it's just, like, been a huge inspiration. And he's always accessible for, like, advice. He's always accessible out here, just an overall real one. But he's, you know, Sinners is obviously a great, great movie, and he did his thing on that, and he's really just getting his flowers in a way that. Not to say he didn't before, because he's had an illustrious career, but right now it just seems like he's just in the midst of a generational run. And that's really cool to see from somebody out here and who's actually seen it up close and seen the behind the scenes of it all. So shout out to Ryan Coogler, man. Shout out to the big homie.
- [50:01]
B
There you go.
- [50:02]
A
You know, I like that.
- [50:03]
B
Really say side note, side side note that you're in the industry. We're talking about the industry. I don't know Where Netflix now, but Bridgerton boys, we're. We're coming back.
- [50:16]
A
We're coming back, baby. We're coming back. Hey, question real quick, real quick. If. If Netflix invites us to any premieres, are you going. Are you getting out of the house for that? Are you going to be an industry Rot. Are you going to be a little. Are you being industry?
- [50:32]
B
How about this? If my wife finds out that we've been invited to something like that, then the answer is yes, I'll be out of the house. If I can keep that from her in any way, shape or form that I probably not go.
- [50:41]
A
I. Well, I'm just gonna say you have an open invite to. And I'm just gonna say this. Outwardly severance premieres, right? Like, bro, be asking, like, yo, is Raja coming? Can Raja come through? Like, what's up? But you don't want to come to la? So, like, it's. That's the thing. I don't know. That's. You are. Here's the thing, bro. This is the running theme of this podcast. You were invited to shit. And you don't go, I'm coming. If you just took two more invites a year, you would. It would be fine. Like, you would be outside.
- [51:13]
B
I would be outside. I might have to take you up on that.
- [51:15]
A
You're such a Virgo, bro. You're such a Virgo. Yeah, but you don't. You're just anti social. You be in the. You look at the group chat. You don't respond to it. Jesus.
- [51:25]
B
Nah, dog. I'm social and I actually, like, have a good time. Not all the time, but a lot of the time when I am outside, I have a good time. It's just getting outside is really difficult sometimes. Does that make sense? I mean, I know that doesn't probably make sense to people, but, like, it should. Like, once I'm there, I'm good. If you could get me to it. I usually enjoy myself. It's just like, everything that goes into getting to things sometimes.
- [51:50]
A
We had a great time in the Bay. We had a great time in the Bay. Just also know this. Hey, little prediction here. More in person. Real ones in 2026. I'm just. We're stamping that. We've made. We've made accommodations for Raja. We've made accommodations for everyone. I think we're going to have some fun this year. All right, with that being said, we've given you guys a great Friday pod. That has been another edition of Real Ones. We do this every Tuesday and Friday. We are back Tuesday, so you know what that means. Real ones mailbag gmail.com real onesmailback gmail.com real ones mailback gmail.com Me, Raja and Howard Beck next week, tap in all the shits. Enjoy your weekend. Bye.