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- [00:00]
A
Foreign.
- [00:17]
B
Hello and welcome to Group Chat. I am Justin Varier. And joining me, as always, J. Kyle Mann. But special guest, the Bill Rafferty of the Ringer, Tate Frazier. What's up, Tate?
- [00:28]
C
I appreciate that intro. I wish I had Raft's sayings and, you know, little quips for you guys. I'll do my best to try to get it going, but happy to talk about college basketball players at any point. So this is the time to do that. So I'm excited to break down all these guys and great to be on with you.
- [00:43]
D
The pod starts. Ben,
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B
I figured we would assemble three college blue bloods here, right? I mean, Kyle, is Kentucky still considered one?
- [00:55]
C
It's been a while for you guys.
- [00:56]
D
I'm gonna. That's.
- [00:58]
C
You just say goodbye. He's out.
- [01:02]
B
But at the very least, I know Tate and I more recently have been champions, so you can kind of waff off of that. It's okay.
- [01:10]
E
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- [02:11]
D
I am going to harbor resentment for you for the rest of time for even positing something so preposterous. We've won titles with how many coaches now, Tate? I think four, five. I mean, just step off. That's all I got to say to that.
- [02:27]
B
Okay, that sounds nice. You have to have something. It's okay. All right, so the. The draft is what, like about five days away? Maybe four, depending on when you listen to this. So we have assembled our two college ball knowers in order to go through a mock draft. Tate, just in general, before we get into this, I think you guys are going to trade off. I'M going to basically sit back, play moderator and just, like, wait for guys to go up on the dais and ask them about, like, how proud their parents are, but just in general about this college season or even, like, as we transition to the draft. Is there anything, like, you think differently than consistent consensus about this? Are you, like, top four guys and then everybody else? Is there a guy that, like, you like more than others? Like, give us, like, your big picture look on things?
- [03:09]
C
Yeah, I do think it is a big four, the Four Horsemen. And I think everybody kind of has their own flavor of the day when it comes to which guys they like the most. And it does seem to be like a shuffling of the deck for each one of these teams, trying to figure out which one of the four they really like. And Kyle man and I were texting this morning just kind of about the personalities of the top three guys in particular. A little bit more brooding, a little bit more isolated, not necessarily the cheerleaders. And then you have Caleb Wilson, who seems to be a guy who is the ultimate cheerleader. So it's fascinating the personality styles that we have with these top four guys. And then as far as, like, a hot take that I have, I think I have a number five guy that I feel pretty good about at number five, and it's Mikel Brown Jr. I have kind of worked through all of the guards, and I steep. I still keep coming back to the big guard himself. And so I feel pretty assured in the fact that I think he's the number five guy on the board. But I've obviously seen a lot of different people kind of, you know, swap in different guys at number five, but for me, it's Mikel Brown Jr. You
- [04:04]
D
know, I've gotten to the point, Justin, where I've heard you talk enough. This is my first point I'm going to make is you love the word deus. There's something about that word that I think you just like it.
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B
What am I supposed to say?
- [04:13]
C
He's a native.
- [04:14]
B
Yeah, I have much more gravitas than you is what's going on here.
- [04:18]
D
He loves an opportunity to say deus, but I was going to jump off of Tate's point there. Yeah, Caleb is, like, very much the. And I think. I think I didn't have this. This epiphany until this morning tape for some reason, where I was like, damn. Like, all three of them are quiet because. And Peterson's gotten the most shit for it, I think, because he's just kind of like, you know, I do My own thing, I keep to myself, but I keep hearing that AJ and if you look at aj, he's just got those, like, intense eyes. And Boozer has some of that going on too. They're all. I'm not saying that they're not effective leaders, but they're all quiet leaders, and I think that's an interesting thing. And then Caleb as the fourth guy is very much the. A lot smileier. You know, I think his, like, charisma with the mic was probably the best. Right. Of the, of the, like, the. The commissioned reporters that they had at the finals.
- [05:06]
C
Yeah, I mean, there's been a lot of people talking about his interviews too. Like, everyone's just like, man, once you get this kid in the room and you talk to him, I mean, he just kind of passes all the tests as far as, like, personality wise. And you can lead by example. We've seen it plenty of times in the NBA. I think it almost gets a bad rap when you're kind of more of a quiet reserve guy. I almost have to give Peterson credit for admitting that fact and just being like, I'm a loner. He's pretty much the only one that's leaned into that. So I think, like you said, everyone's a little bit harsh on Peterson, but Caleb is totally, like, going to buy into whatever city he goes to. And I think that's an encouraging sign for whoever gets him, you know, most likely at number four.
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B
So face of the franchise for the Bulls. Like, do you think he could immediately leave Josh Giddey considering his, like, great PR right now?
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C
I think so. You know what I mean? I think Boozelis and Caleb maybe as a little combination there, that could be a lot of fun. And then Thiago splitter. I mean, I just think, you know, hearing his press conference and kind of how he wants to formulate his team and kind of fit the personalities of his team, I think that'd be a really good fit for Caleb. So we'll talk about it, obviously, as we go through the draft, but I think, you know, as far as who he is as a person, it's easy to fall in love with Caleb and I think the other guys, it might be a little bit of a longer sort of lull into the relationship, but again, I think they're all special in their own way, and I'm excited to talk about them all.
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B
Yeah, unfortunately, Thiago just wanted to make just the average salary as an NBA head coach. I'll no longer be seeing him. All right, why don't we take a quick break first, and then we come back. We'll get into these mock picks.
- [06:36]
F
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B
gonna go through the mock one by one. You guys are gonna alternate picks. Kyle, I feel like we have to give Tate the first pick just because he's the gu.
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F
House rules.
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D
Okay.
- [07:21]
B
Okay. So first on the clock, the Washington Wizards. I think a lot of people are respecting debona here, Tate, but except for probably Darren Peterson, who I think would like people to believe that it is him. Where would you go if you were running the Wizards right now?
- [07:36]
C
I do feel like the Wizards are going to have an internal conversation, especially with the Trey Young news. I think there is probably a couple of people that fist pumped and celebrated. Obviously not Joe House when he heard that news, but I think it was obviously AJ And Darren Peterson. As far as the fit for Darren Peterson, he's like, well, they do need a lead guard. I am a lead guard, and I'm, you know, by all accounts, he was going to be the number one pick before we had the very strange year. Kansas. We don't have to get through the minutia of that. There's also been some questions about the creatine. He had cramps in high school as well, which is kind of come back to the surface. So there's been a conversation about him. But I do think that AJ Is the safest play. I kind of go back to the banal, you know, kind of take with the number one pick. It's like, who expects to be the number one pick? Who wants to be the number one pick? AJ Obviously wants to be the number one pick. It seems like he's put himself out there. He's very, very forward facing with his situation. And he is a hub. I mean, he is a guy who can be a franchise guy for you, someone you can believe in, someone you can buy in. And I think that he kind of checks all the boxes six nine, two, ten, you know, obviously 26 points per game. In college, you know, the rebounding was great, about 7 rebounds per game, played about 35 minutes a game in a 40 minute game. He can obviously give you, you know, the, the energy that you need to be that next level player. And you talk about highlights. I mean, this is a guy that can sell tickets for you. So if you're the Wizards, I think don't overthink it. I know Peterson is right there and you can talk yourself into it, but I think AJ debonza goes number one.
- [08:59]
D
Yeah, the Wizards in an interesting spot where they can, you know, they, they, you could look at it in a couple of different ways. You could look at it as you, you know, in a vacuum. This is an interesting young core. If you just go with the guys that they've accumulated over the past few years with the shitty lottery that they've gotten, I know people are kind of down and you know, Justin, I know you and I and Rob talked about this on group chat in the, in the fall. We were like, there's something happening here. You know, as the season wore on, it was like, oh my, my God, the nausea of how bad it got at times. But I'm not totally distracted from the fact that, you know, Saar, I think has proven that he's, you know, for the questions about his physicality and things like that, he looks like an NBA like rim protector. He looks athletic. Trey Johnson was up and down, started the season hot but got cold. Will Riley looks like he's going to outperform his draft spot. I just think they have a lot of interesting guys and if you throw Devonta in there, I think he's going to sort of take a lot of those orbiting pieces and give them, you know, more efficient purpose. But then if you, you they're in the interesting position where they can audition these two distressed superstars who, I think if you look at them on paper as a team. I was asking, you know, our group chat with, with Bill and House this morning, like, does AD ever play for them? I think if he ever. I think on paper this is kind of an interesting basketball team in the short term. So even, even for a season, AJ would slot in there and it automatically is kind of a balance team, even though it's kind of side unseen at this point.
- [10:29]
B
Yeah, it's interesting because. Well, for one, it does feel like players in recent drafts have been trying to force their way to the Wizards. Like we had Ace Bailey before that, we had Sar in the draft before that. This year is a little bit different because they have the first pick. But, like, watching Peterson, I'm like, is there just something about D.C. that I don't know about? I guess it is ultimately the opportunity because, like, it is a more metropolitan city than, for instance, like, Utah or some of these, like, really small markets. And so I get it from that thing, from that perspective. But also just like, it seems like they needed a star player in order to drive a lot of those role players that Kai was talking about. We'll see about Sar. The injury kind of worries me going into next season. We'll see if he's healthy to start the season, let alone throughout it. But, like, just having these two veterans there, Tate, is something that's really confusing to me because not only with the Wizards, but you also have the Jazz and some of these other bad teams. That Pacers don't even have a top five pick because they went out and got veterans at the trade deadline. Does the Trey Young situation or the AD situation change anything about how you're approaching this? Just because, like, these guys at the top are supposed to be, like, a hair margin, like, difference, like Peterson, Boozer and DeBons are supposed to be all kind of on the same tier. Does, like, fit actually matter to you with the Wizards? Are you just going best player no matter what?
- [11:44]
C
What I'm going best player. And I think that he does fit in with the young core. When you talk about Trey Johnson, he has a relationship with Will Riley. Already talked about him. Keyshawn George, I think, is a really nice piece for them as well. Bub Carrington, I've always been a fan of. I know Bub has had some up and downs, but I think he's still a solid piece for them. And I think in general for D.C. i wouldn't focus too much on Trey Young, Anthony Davis, I think that those things will be figured out. I suspect, and Kyle was kind of alluding to that, that Anthony Davis probably won't be on the Wizards. I think that he will move on, and I don't know what that looks like or how that looks. And Trey Young, I kind of feel the same way. And I think AJ Would actually be better if they cleared the decks of the veteran guys and kind of let him be the sun on that team and let everybody else orbit around him, especially with that young core. So I feel like, to me, that is the play for D.C. and I think that's what they end up doing.
- [12:31]
D
A lot of ball handling size on this team. If the Wizards do, they're a big team. Aj. If you think about AJ can pro. I mean, we saw when Richie Saunders went down for BYU. AJ's usage, I think it went up north of 30% for, for that part of the season. Then you think about Keyshawn George, who's run some one. You think about Will Riley can really handle the ball.
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C
Bubs.
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D
Not tiny. You know, he's. That's one of the interesting wrinkles about that team is the ball handling size for me. But I think best player available is the way to go. Just because you can't get this far with. With what they've given up to get here and then. And then think about fit, like they had all these stabs trying to get it to the number one pick and, and didn't quite get there. If they were to think about fit right now and not just take best player available, that I think that would be a catastrop. So I think if. If in Tate's mind as the Wizards, that's AJ DeBonta, I think that's the way to go.
- [13:23]
B
Well, I think that's a particularly interesting question going into number two now because obviously, not only does AJ have the background with Utah, maybe they'd be interested in him, but now we're starting to see, like, dribbles of information or rumors or just complete bullshit at this point in the draft cycle that, like, maybe Danny Ainge might go off the reservoir. Go camboozer at 2. Darren Peterson, obviously another wild card there. Maybe he slides down to even beyond that, even beyond three. I'm curious, Kyle, because you just put out a new draft board on the ringer.com you have cam Boozer as your top pick. Would you be as bold as the Utah Jazz to jump Darren Peterson? Take cam boozer at 2.
- [14:06]
D
I don't think you can lose. I think is kind of where I'm sitting with this. And they've demonstrated that they have the stomach to take guys who have their details that can be left out, I think, but people can go research that for themselves. But they've taken players in the past, Ainge has, in particular, players who have sort of circles around them that have questionable, you know, operating history, I think. And everybody that has kind of followed the Peterson thing. That's the vibe that I have gotten is if as you start to kind of go through the receipts like a. Like an auditor, it's like, where exactly did this go wrong? I know Tate has probably spent a lot of time trying to figure this out, too. The thing that I keep hearing for People is just like the communication between the school and the camp was just there was a disconnect, you know, whether who was right or wrong. But it seems like coming from the camp, that was, that was the issue. So the Anges. I say all that to say that I think if any team was going to have the stomach to kind of just say, we'll take the dude and we'll figure that out. It's the pedigree of a Danny Ainge who has seen a million of these situations and probably has a method of going through and doing that. Darren Peterson fits like a puzzle piece into what the Jazz currently have going on here. I know that they have said, you know, Keonte, they said that they're not going to extend him this year. They're going to wait and see if he can. At least that's what, that's the messaging that's getting put out. Keonte George, who had a good year after having two bad years, maybe that could be a sign that they're, they're saying, you know, we're open to bringing in a Darren Peterson. You could read it that way. But if I look at, if I look at the Jazz, I think Cam Boozer could slot in and make you huge with a really high level skill set. If you wanted to look at it like, okay, we have Mark and we have Boozer and we have Jaren Jackson Jr. To me, that's the pick that I'm going to make if I'm the Jazz. So that's who I'm selecting. I just think that that combo of Jaren Jackson Jr. And Cam Boozer is really, really interesting because you have a lot, you have shooting, you have playmaking, you can really guard a lot of different types of teams. Really physical. That's, that's the, that's the way that I would go.
- [16:15]
B
So we're pairing Cam and Jaren Jackson Jr. And we're just going to play five centers all the time. We're basically going to be that Denver Nuggets graphic where it's like bowl and Jokic and the bubble team where they just did that basically.
- [16:27]
D
Yeah. I mean, I think Markkanen still has a great market. I mean, I think that you're going to be able to get something good. He's not distressed. I think his value is still really high. Nothing is really done. Nothing's really taken the air out of that, in my opinion. So you might be able to go and really take take a stab at answering some more of your backcourt questions. And it doesn't mean that Keonte's gone. It's just. Yeah, I think that Boozer in Utah makes a whole lot of sense because he has personal experience. That's another thing you're thinking about with Utah is, you know, he has personal experience with Utah and he might hang around, you know, since his dad is there, or maybe he wants to get away from his dad. I don't know. Do you have thoughts on that?
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C
Yeah, I do think it's fascinating with Carlos being involved. And I think that obviously there's a lot of familiarity between the Boozer family and the Utah Jazz. Also, like Kevin Love comp that I've seen thrown out a lot with Cam Boozer, I think that, you know, going to Utah, maybe that helps with that comp for a lot of people. I also think, just in general, I mean, Cam Boozer's passing ability, I know he's a big. But I just think being able to create is maybe a little bit underrated at this point. There were times during the season with Duke where they didn't have a true point guard and Kaden Boozer was still kind of getting his feet underneath him. And they just said, hey, Cam, you take the ball late in the game and you handle business for us. And I do think that at times he can kind of be that player for them as well. The Kessler thing is strange. I know he's asking for a lot of money, so the front court doesn't seem as shored up as it may be. You know, was kind of thought so. I think that this is almost a safe pick for Utah. And as far as the long, you know, kind of game for what Utah wants, I think that Cam Boozer fits and checks a lot of boxes. And I wouldn't be shocked if the Angels had Boozer at number one on their board. And for them, this might be them in their mind getting the number one pick. So I just think that that's the reason why it makes a lot of sense to me. I think Cam Boozer is a low mainten and star that you bring in there, and I think that fits really well in Utah. And I've heard a lot of the talk about, like Keonte, George and Wasserman slash the team and kind of, you know, they don't want to step on his toes. And the Darren Peterson would make that an issue. I don't buy that as much. I feel like that's agent propaganda that's been put out to the people, but I don't think that really matters here. And I think Cam Boozer at number two makes a lot of sense.
- [18:34]
D
I think he'd make. Boozer would make Keonte's life a little bit better. Because a lot of the questions about Keonte are like, is this guy ever going to be a true offensive engine? Those were the pressures and burdens put on him. You know, the efficiency, shooting and getting up the ball. Having a playmaker like Boozer, I think would make Keonte's life, maybe have him settle into a role that's more natural for him.
- [18:53]
B
This is kind of shaping up to be the ultimate test of, like, fit versus talent here, because you have a team like Utah going out and getting Jaren Jackson basically just to sit him to do that in advance of the off season so you could get the business done early. And I have to wonder, like, do the Jazz all of a sudden start to regret that? I know they don't know that they were going to leap up into the top of the draft, and obviously they hadn't had a lot of luck before that, but now they're in a situation where if they wanted to go Cam, then things get super confusing. It's funny, Kyle, but the way you kind of laid it out where it's like, you could just fucking trade Larry Market, it is true. Like, you don't have to keep all of the players there. This doesn't have to be a problem for as long as you wanted to. But having said that, like, all of a sudden your leverage on all this situation just craters, right? Like, and I guess the question is, like, from there for you, Kyle, like, is it Lowry that doesn't fit? At that point, would you be thinking, if you have Cam and you're just like, best player, I'm going to. I'm going to build my team around him and shift things there. Is it Lowry that doesn't fit? Is it Kessler? Ultimately, is it Jaren? Like, who's the guy that is the odd man out?
- [19:59]
D
It's tough because I think once, if you assume they're going to take Boozer, Boozer can take guys off the dribble a little bit, can kind of straight line, go to the basket. Jaren can do that, too. You just. You don't want to stack too many sort of hats on hats with these guys who can't get to the rim or who can't create off the dribble. Because I don't have any doubt about the spacing between, like, Boozer and marketing and Jack and even together. But that's kind of a stagnant, downhill idea because especially if you have Ace Bailey and you believe in him, he's not like a super downhill guy either. So I would imagine you could go four or five with Boozer and Jackson, have Ace at the, at the three and then I think you would have, you would need to have some kind of drink stirring guys who could create off the balance at the one and the two, you know, they have some options there. But I think Lowry would be the guy that, that would come to mind for me. Just because you love his shooting but he's still so valuable. Just kind of circling back to that point about and you know, maybe you're right, maybe teams will see that and be like, we know you want to get rid of him. They I'm sure they could figure out a way to play this because there are a bunch of contenders that would probably enjoy having Lowry. So I think you could get some assets for him. That's just the direction that I would go. But in terms of the ball, I think the ball handling is kind of the key kind of stressing variable there that would make me this summer FanDuel
- [21:16]
A
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- [21:46]
G
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- [22:24]
D
That would make me that would drive whatever choice I make.
- [22:28]
B
Imagine if you're Lowry and you spent three years just throwing away like the prime of your career and then they trade you. It's absolutely brutal. But I guess like if, if anyone's going to do it it's going to be the Anges. All right, Memphis at three. Tate, is this an easy choice for you? Like, is this clear cut?
- [22:46]
C
It's tough because, you know, obviously to me, I mean, Darren Peterson at number three makes a lot of sense. And I think, you know, looking at that team, I think Cedric Coward is the perfect kind of guy that you can pair with his personality next to a Darren Peterson, because Cedric is a guy who can be more forward facing. He is a gregarious guy, very affable guy. So I think that it kind of works as far as that. I like Jalen Wells a lot as a piece, and then obviously you have a distressed asset with John Moran and they're going to probably shop him around, I would assume. And if you bring Darren Peterson in, I think that's a perfect situation where, hey, thanks a lot, Ja. We appreciate your time here, but we're moving on to our next guard here in Darren Peterson. And I think the fact that Darren can play a true point guard role, at least we suspect, and also can play off the ball as he showed at Kansas, I think that also is a very intriguing thing for them. I know that there's a lot of conversation about Peterson not willing to work out for anybody but the Wizards. I don't read too much into that. I think Memphis has kind of understood the cold shoulder that they're willing to get, especially when it comes to agents and their players and what they want. And a big market seems to be always to sell. But I do think that if I'm here at number three, you got those two guys off the board. I think you're licking your chops a little bit. I know Boozer would be great in Memphis. I think personality wise, he and Coward would be great together. But I think that Darren Peterson is just too tantalizing. So at number three, give me Darren Peterson and let him pop there in Memphis, and I think that he could end up being a star.
- [24:08]
B
I was. I thought you were going to butt that right there. I was. I was waiting for them, like Caleb Wilson.
- [24:13]
D
I thought for sure he. He's. He's keeping us on our toes. It's funny how, like, there are some markets. I was thinking about this the other day that are. They're not going to be like, on the apps. You know, they're not going to be getting dates just off the. Off the first glance on the apps of just like, you know, they're going to, you know, whatever turf and then they're.
- [24:32]
B
But, yeah, keep going.
- [24:33]
G
And then.
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D
And then they're the.
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C
They're all swiping left originally.
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D
Yeah, right, right. See, I. This is. I missed the entire app, all that stuff. So I didn't even know what, how to like correctly address the reference. But anyway. Yeah. And then, then they're the teams that are like, like Memphis and Utah. Like, they're like, we know you keep hearing about this. They're like, we're used to all this like nonsense of the bullshit of, of, you know, we won't work out. You don't initially want to go here. They're more the teams that are like, like, we go to church. They know, like we go to church together. You're going to kind of see me and we'll win you over. I feel like that's kind of the analog. It's like LA and the big markets, they're like, we know we're. We're going to get. We're going to get some action on the apps. But I don't know. I was just thinking about that the other day.
- [25:14]
C
It's a personality connection.
- [25:15]
G
Yeah.
- [25:16]
D
Yeah, totally.
- [25:17]
B
Totally. What I read from the Peterson thing from afar was that he knew he wasn't going number two and that he was just breaking up to continue this tortured metaphor a little bit, bit farther than anyone imagined I could torture.
- [25:31]
D
Come on.
- [25:32]
B
Well, it was good when you did it. It was tortured when I got it back. When he just knows he's not going to Utah. That cam stuff is real. He's probably going to go to. And he just wanted to get ahead of that in order to save face. Does that like, is that at all the possibility? Kyle?
- [25:50]
D
I. It's possible. It's hard to know what's going on with that camp, to be honest with you, man. I mean, he might just want to go number one and take the other. The other thing that you were talking about that I. Is interesting is like as much as I really, really enjoyed and one of my favorite things about Peterson this past year was him going on and off ball a lot. Like him showing the off ball stuff. I'm not convinced that he is excited about that. Like, I, I kind of feel like Peterson is just like, I'm harden, I'm a system. Like, that's. I kind of wonder if that's how he is because I think the strongest thing about him is that he can go on and off ball like that. That.
- [26:26]
C
I also just think in the west, as we saw with the spurs, like having multiple guards and versatile guards, I think you're going to have to have a plethora to really make sense. And I think for him, it's like, I can shoulder some of this burden early on in a game. I can pass it off to Cedric if I need to for a little while, let him do what he needs to do. I can take it back in the crunch time moments, you know what I mean? So I think there's a sell there to Darren Peterson that maybe he buys into where it's like, we're not going to put all this on your plate from the start. And then when you have shooters like a Jalen Wells around you and some of these other pieces that Memphis has been able to acquire. Yeah, Cam Spencer, like, they just have one. The Grizzlies have just done a great job drafting in general. Like, if you go back through their draft history, I mean, it's just hit after hit after hit. So I mean, they've been able to figure it out. And I just think that once they get him in the building, they can sell the idea. I think Memphis, the city will really galvanize around a guy like Darren Peterson. And maybe if he feels that love and feels like, like, hey, I'm the franchise guy, everybody knows me, everybody loves me. We see like a better version of him because at Kansas it felt like at times he was almost antagonistic towards, like the fans because they expected so much from him. He had the, you know, interesting issues, you know, not playing in games. They kind of all turned and started to love Melvin Counsel, who was his backcourt partner, instead of him. It just got into a weird, awkward situation. I don't think that Cedric Coward has the personality to want to take away. I think they're all going to try to get him to, to, to invest and involve himself. And I think, I think that's going to be a win for him in the end. But I'm with you. I think that he's got to be on ball originally just to keep him engaged. And then from there it's like, hey, that's a lot to put on your plate. Let's help you out a little bit. Cedric, you take over. Let's pass the baton. And I think this is a tough team. So I think that Darren Peterson eventually buys in.
- [28:05]
B
Yeah, that seems like the perfect context for someone who presumably just wants to run his own team because there are very few options where like a team is just, just waiting for their next star. If anything, everyone has someone or they already have that one growing in house. And so other than maybe like the Nets or the Kings, who aren't going to be in this area. And so, like, to get into Memphis feels like. Even though perhaps like, won't be the best market. I don't know if he'll be in love with, like, the hotel selection there, but living there, he won't have to worry about it. But it does feel like he could be the engine for what's next there, because you're right, they do have such a good job mining guys from the middle of the draft. The back end of the first round, they'll be able to support it. But what they need is a new focal point regardless of what's going to happen to Jai. If anything, Jaw is just there until he's not. He's just a waystation until we get to what's next. And Peters can. Could very much be that guy.
- [28:53]
C
Yeah. The cryptic Jaw tweet after they draft Peterson would be what I was interested in. You know, like, that's what I'd be watching out for, like, the thinking face or whatever it is, you know, that would be great.
- [29:03]
D
It's kind of interesting that. To think about if. If somehow this just, like, really reset the jaw situation and we could get John Peterson together, like, that would be pretty. And then you put Ced at the three, and then. I don't know. But. But if I'm Memphis, I. I would be going in this with a little bit of trepidation because you come out of this area where your superstar basically just kind of like lights fire to the whole situation, and you're like, all righty, here we go. Let's jump out of that right back into another. Like, you know, Darren may acquit himself of that stuff immediately. It's hard to say. It's. You know, that's. That. And that's been the. The crux of all the debate about him is like, you know, how. How much of this is a bug and how much of this is a feature with, like, what went on at Kansas. And I think if you're picking him, there's some worry about that. And if it were Memphis, yeah, I would. I would be going into that being like, did we just sign up for another troublesome superstar? But the talent is so immense, man. I've said. I've said it repeatedly, he's the most offensively talented player in this draft, but that alone isn't enough to take you number one or bet on you.
- [30:07]
B
All right, number four, Chicago Bulls. Kyle, I think you're up.
- [30:10]
D
I am. You know, I'm going to take Caleb Wilson here. Shocker, Shocker, Shocker. Wilson. The Bulls are basically a formless void at this point. To me, I don't really even know for sure what's nailed down is, is a really interesting conversation with them. You got a new, you know, you got a new philosophy coming in. We used to be able to kind of predict what they were going to do because. Because of what Archerose is draft history. Bryson Graham comes in and it's hard to know which direction he's going to go at this team. I mean, Giddy might stay, he might go. It seems to me like Bouzelis is the guy who has the most kind of flexibility positionally and like what direction he could go. Play style wise, I think you pair Bou Zealous and Caleb Wilson just as a starting point together. That is a really spatially, I think Giddy Bouzelis and Wilson is a little troublesome. But, but I think Bouzelis and Wilson is a really, really fun wing parent. And then, you know, the Bulls have another pick in this draft too. They could pick something that really complements those two guys. So I, I like this pick. I think Chicago would love Caleb Wolves.
- [31:17]
B
What do you think, Tate?
- [31:18]
C
Yeah, I think it's just this is a no brainer for Chicago. You just get to sit there and watch the other three teams kind of battle it out and kind of, you know, try to figure out where they want to go with this. And then you sit there and you say, okay, we'll take Caleb. Or they could take Darren Peterson. Let's say that Memphis decides to go for Caleb, like whoever's there at number four, I think they feel good. They also don't have to really do anything. They just need to sit there, there and wait it out. And I know there's been a lot of conversation about kind of Caleb's, you know, three point shooting and I think he finished like 26 on a very low volume there. But as far as like the mechanics of it all, like it isn't broken and if you watch him in the mid range, like the touch, the feel, I think it's all there. I think it will eventually get to a place where it does translate. So I'm not too concerned about that. And as far as like the flashes and the instincts, they're all there with who Caleb Wilson is. And I just think there's a lot of two way upside for him. I think defensively he's going to buy in. I think he's going to take a lot of onus on that side of the ball, especially early in his career, because he understands if you Play defense, you're going to get on the court. So I just think for Caleb and then as far as like, the personality, like, this guy is going to lean all the way into Chicago. He's going to be everywhere. He's going to be eating Chicago dogs, He'll be at White Sox games. Like, he's just going to be a man of the people and completely get Bulls fans excited about the future. And I think that's just. Chicago fans have just been waiting for something positive to believe in, and I think Caleb Wilson gives them something to believe in. So I think it's a, it's an easy pick at number four for them, and I excited to see what it looks like.
- [32:42]
B
So I know things didn't go great for our guy Arturis, but the one thing that I always kind of saw in the midst of all the shit that was happening there was that like his like, basic theory I thought rang true, which is like, he wanted guys with size who could dribble past shoe, right. He wanted athletes, he wanted multiple ball handlers. It worked well from the start with Lonzo and Alex Caruso basically ripping and running and like kind of opening things out from there. Obviously things did not go well practically since that first season. But like, at the very least, there's still the guts of that identity. I think they were kind of trying to like, re jigger like where they were in order to like, lean more toward guys that they were getting in the draft. And I think one good thing about putting Thiago in there, it really seems like he spiritually wants to carry on that, like his offense, especially the one that he ran in France before he got to Portland, was very much like Nola Roach style, where you're moving, moving, and a lot of like the no screen stuff and a lot of like, guys that would thrive in that environment. And so I do feel like Kyle, like Bazellas, Caleb, even giddy for now, even if he isn't a long term guy. These are guys that kind of fit that sort of identity.
- [33:48]
D
Yeah, it's, it's that bull, that little hiccup where we had DeRozan and, and, and Caruso and Lonzo. That was a fun. I feel like it was just like three months right where they were, where they were.
- [34:00]
B
They were like the number one team in the east or the NBA over like the first two months. Yeah, yeah.
- [34:06]
D
It was just like a bunch of handlers out there. I mean, if we're, if we're being like literal and we're talking about them doing the, it's so funny that the, like, Noah Laroche thing became like a standard household term in basketball. People may have no idea what the hell we're talking about. It's just like a, it's an interesting. It's a style of like spacing and, and, and cutting after a ball handler drives. For people who don't know, there's a lot of good YouTube videos about it out there. But I mean, I mean, that's going to stress. That's going to stress Caleb's things that he needs to work on in the short term, I think, and that's one of the big questions I've heard from other scouts is like the driving kick stuff is like, can he grow in that way? Which may. If they do end up playing with the bigger ball handler thing, that might suggest that Caleb plays like 4 and 5 most of the time. Like dunker, spot catching lobs types of stuff. Yeah. Speaking to just the skills and things like that, I agree with Tate. Like, I think the shot's going to be there. You know, he shot like 71% from the line. Like, the touch is good. Anytime he got to his spots, it looked nice. So I think he's probably going to be like a stationary shooter from three, but I think he's going to get there. And the defensive upside is just off the charts. He is so much stuff. He. His defensive impact, for what it was, considering how loose his technique is, was pretty crazy. And if you just think about if he tightens some of that stuff up, he could become one of the best defensive players in the league.
- [35:24]
B
All right, before we get to the rest of the draft, I want to take a quick break, come back that the Ringer NBA show is brought to you by FanDuel. Another NBA season is in the books, but the fun doesn't have to stop there. On the biggest stage in the world, FanDuel is changing the game. Because sometimes your player gets subbed off and your bet goes with them. Not anymore with FanDuel super sub. If your player is subbed up, your bet stays in. That's right. If your player leaves the match, your bet continues on with the substitute. So you're still in it until the final one. Whistle. Because in matches like these, anything can happen. And now your bet can go the distance. Visit FanDuel.com Ringer MBA to get started 21 select states or 18 DC, Kentucky, Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800- gambler, call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org ChatInElectric all right, number five, Tate, you're up. And this is where the next tier of guys starts to come in. So you basically have your pick here, and it really is kind of I of the beholder. So where are you going, number five with the Clippers?
- [36:26]
C
Yeah, I tease this at the top. I just think that he's the most electric guard on the board. I like his size. I do think that a lot of people. Yeah, Mikel Brown Jr. Is the pick. I. I won't, you know, sugarcoat it anymore here. I know that a lot of people talked about his three point shooting. It's like 35% for the season, but he takes a lot of threes, which means he has a lot of confidence. And I really like the shot. I think he has a really nice shot. I think the volume is there because he believes in his shot. I think he has good vision. I think he's big, big. I think he's a really good passer. I know there's the back issues that a lot of people have talked about. The medicals have come back pretty clean. There was some weird stuff. He's kind of like the. The light Darren Peterson situation in college this year where he didn't get the same kind of fanfare about it. But there were some weird things that were happening at Louisville and some issues, you know, with his playing time and things like that. But, man, when he does play, he's got a lot of firepower. I think that, you know, the Clippers here are just trying to find someone that can play next to a garlic who could fit in with the Kawhi Leonard. When I talked to him last spring, I asked him, like, who's the best player in the draft? Right? And I, you know, I kind of gave him the three guys to choose from at the time, which was Boozer AJ and Darren Peterson. And he said me, which I thought was a great answer, and I just kind of like laughed at it. And I was like, okay. You know, Mike Hill. Brown definitely believes in himself. So I just think he's got a lot of. A lot of energy. I think he's got a lot of belief in himself, and I think he's going to be ready to roll. You get him out to la. He's working out. He here today, which is Thursday. I know they had a really good workout with buries the other day. I think it was a couple days ago. But I just think once they see Mikel in person, see his size, see his ability, and watch him go through a workout, they're going to fall in love with him and I think if they don't trade back. This is a perfect pick for the Clippers at number five.
- [38:02]
D
Yeah, Mikel's always kind of hovered around that top three almost like a little brother. Like, you know, we saw him, you know, in Portland at the hoop summit. It was like you got the guys and then it was like, oh, Mike Hill's pretty good too. It was, he was always sort of in that order.
- [38:15]
C
Right.
- [38:16]
D
For people who don't know too, I mean the stuff that went on at Louisville, it was like there was a back injury and there was a lot of like causality argument that went on that caused tension that you can read about that went on out there where it was just, I think that caused a lot of unrest in the, in the program. And then my main things with him are the defensive. He's pretty skinny. He's shown to me like he's probably going to get attacked. Not that that's a unique thing among the guards in this draft. And I've worried about the, the finishing at times too. But the shooting I think is, is the strongest argument for him. You were talking about his audacity and his confidence. I mean he shot 40.4% on threes in the pick and roll this season. So he can get, get it off in every which way. I mean you can run him off of screens, you can have him as a drill pull up shooter. He's, he's very versatile in that way and he's ambidextrous with his passing game. I think that's another thing that's really nice about Mike Kelly and he's grown, he's grown to, he's bigger than a lot of these guys. So he and Wagler are sort of peers in terms of the bigger live dribble kind of creator scores in this class.
- [39:21]
B
So my understanding with Mikel and I've only watched like two games and I remember like getting the big waf of like lamelo vibes from him. Maybe not just like in how he plays, but maybe how he, how he carries himself. But everything you hear is just like the upside is there. And yet as I'm reading the NBA draft, Kai, we have on the ringer from our guy Kyle Mann. You have him 12th. So like not only past the, the group of guards that I think could go here, but beyond even guys like Hans Steinbach and your guy quittance. Am I getting any of these right?
- [39:57]
C
My rule of thumb is you got to be good enough for me to pronounce your name properly, you know, Like, Giannis got so good. I learned, like, the Nigerian version, Adity Kumpo. You know what I mean? Like, that's how good he got. So I think you get there.
- [40:07]
B
Eventually we got past the tier of guys that I knew, and then I'm like, oh, shit. I don't actually don't know how to pronounce this guy. I never said this out loud, but anyway, Kyle Mikel Brown, you have a 12. So are you just not a believer?
- [40:19]
D
No, no. I mean, that's. I would say, no, no, that's not the case. It's just. I think my archetype, like, tier, where I have him is maybe a little different than the way other people see. I think. I think people see him as like, a pure offensive engine. And I'm not totally there in terms of.
- [40:36]
F
Of.
- [40:36]
D
You mentioned Lamelo. Lamelo's thing is just kind of like kinetic, kinetic, kinetic, kinetic. It. Moving, moving, moving, like, just always. And has a lot of flair. And I kind of wonder about that with Mikel about, like, physicality inside the arc. Can his game. Does his game need to be at the speed that he constantly plays at, and can he slow down and be a little bit more of similar to another guy that we're getting ready to talk about? And that's been my biggest thing, which has made me kind of slide him more into the archetype of the Keontes or the. Or the, like, Anthony Simons is another guy that I bring up a lot with him. It's like, yeah, these guys are scorers. It's like, are they max contract offensive engine guys? I. I can't quite get there. That's the line that I. That I'm below with Mikel, but he's an undeniable talent, so. And he could outperform that and make me look stupid. That's extremely possible.
- [41:29]
B
All right, Nets are up now, Kyle, so you have your pick of guards. You have Wagler as your fifth guy. You have buries at six.
- [41:36]
C
Fleming, they take another point guard, though. Like, that's the problem with me with Brooklyn. I'm like, can. How many point guards can one team take? Like, you talked about all center starting. Like, is this a team of all point guards at some point? My God.
- [41:47]
D
Well, I mean, Wagler differs from all the other playmakers that they've taken in that he can shoot the freaking ball. Just. Jesus Christ. No, I mean, Wagler and Jagor together would be a pretty impotent downhill idea, I think, but Wagler can get into the pain and has some. I was talking about Mikel, about how the sort of pace and the speed that he plays at Keaton is the opposite. Keaton is very slow. Like, I'm good. It's not that he's like a slow athlete laterally, it's just he has a way more exacting, kind of incremental way that he plays and it's very mature and I think it's only going to advance and get better. I think he's going to become, become a technique wizard as he continues to get better. And I think he also. We were talking about going on and off ball with Peterson. Keaton is good enough that he can play off ball during the times when he's not kind of getting his. Taking his lumps as a, as a primary creator. So he's, he's a legitimate big time shooter. I have a lot of belief in him in that sense. So the question I guess will be like the, you know, in the actual draft is whether or not they want to put him next to Garland. I think his size kind of of, you know, eases some of that, the worry on that front defensively probably still be a question. You know, people have brought up a whole lot that in the half court, Wagler like doesn't dunk. Like he's only had like one dunk in like the past three years across multiple levels. So. And he's six, six, which, you know, how much do you care about that? Your mileage may vary, but I, I think that Wagler is a big time talent. I'm a big fan.
- [43:22]
B
Tate, where are you on Wagler?
- [43:24]
C
I'm a big fan. I think that the only, only issues I really have with Wagler is just like when he has defensive pressure, which he's going to face in the playoffs. Like, I think he'd be a great regular season player early on in his career. But once he gets like actual guys like a Steph Castle picking up Wagler, to me, if I forecast in the future, I don't like the, the promise of that, but if he goes to a team like Brooklyn, he'll have some time to develop and kind of fight through some of those hiccups that he'll have early on. And I do think, think as far as being able to kind of get off ball, be a catch and shoot guy to get into a rhythm and then I think you can kind of load into him being a primary ball handler throughout his career. I think that is something that I see as far as like forecasting what his future looks like, but yeah, I'm a big fan. I think whenever you have a guy like this that is kind of an under, under the radar prospect, there's probably a little bit of imposter syndrome that you have to fight through early on in his career. So I think bringing him into a system, having time and a Runway for him to develop into the player he can be is a best case scenario. So Brooklyn to me would be a great fit. And I think he could play like a two guard type situation as well and just get some shots up, get into a flow. And then the more that you kind of believe and see, especially in the pick and roll, you're like, all right, let's give him the keys and let him go. So I'm a big fan. I just, I wonder how far he could slide down depending on if teams kind of fall in love with some more sure guys, you know, like a Kingston Flemings or a Braden Burrys or something like that. But I'm a big fan of Wagler as a player.
- [44:47]
B
I almost wish he stayed a little bit farther under the radar, like he didn't pop as much as he did at Illinois because it seems like he's the type of guy who would benefit a lot from the players around him, like the, the. The kind of theory of like putting him in the warrior system or like around more veterans so he could flow around there and then just steadily gain more and more. But if you're trapped him at five or six even, like you're kind of expecting a lot from him, at least from the jump. I guess if the Clippers hold on to Garland like at the very, there's be a little bit more of a timeshare there before they see to him. But like, I don't know, just like just, just straight from the jump, like, it feels like he's the type of guy who needs a little bit more time. And the Clippers, I mean, if they're going to keep Kawhi, they're going to actually compete at the very least for a playing spot for the immediate. So I don't know. Seven Kings. Tate, where are you going?
- [45:35]
C
This feels. This feels like the obvious one. And I think everybody is sort of pointing to the fact that this is obvious. I mean, Darius AKA I think for me, the Kings are going to be between two guards who are totally different stylistically. I think it's going to be a cuff for Kingston Flemings. I think Flemings is sort of your Davion Mitchell defensive stopper and hope that he grows into more of an offensive prospect as time kind of wanes on. But I just think when you have a player like Darius Acuff, who is so tough, scores at three levels, distributes plays well out of the pick and roll, excellent at setting the pace, kind of has a moxie as almost like a veteran type mindset. I know defense has been a very scrutinized point when it comes to Darius Acuff, but. But I'm of the camp that when you have a guy like this who is just someone that can, one, sell tickets and two, get people to believe in him as a true star in this league, I know he's a little bit undersized, but they have the relationship. Scott Perry and his dad are very close. I know BJ Armstrong, who's the assistant GM there, has had his eye on a cup for quite some time. I thought they were going to have to trade up for Darius at some point. And we were talking about this and Kyle's like, what are they trading? You know what I mean? Like, what. What do they have to offer to trade up? Which I think is a very fair conversation. And so if the Kings are sitting there at 7, Acuff is still on the board. I think it's an easy decision for them. I think they take Darius Acuff and they are very excited about what his future looks like. And he's had a lot of NBA and basketball people around him for quite some time, and I think he's really going to grow into a superstar. And I think getting him at number seven is a steal for the Sacramento Kings. So I'm going to take Darius Acuff.
- [47:03]
D
If you're trying to trade up for Acuff, there's big. Like Michael Scott with the oven mitt in the Christmas episode. He's like, oh, look at this craftsmanship. You know very well. I don't really know who they're. Who they're going to dangle. But yeah, Acuff, he. The thing that I've heard people bring up, and this is a serious worry, is just like, is he going to be in the running for worst defensive player in the league? Like, he's going to get targeted a whole lot. You hear that about Trey Young. You hear that about Keonte. You hear people, you know, so these. These skinny guys who are scorers. It's like he's. It's going to be an uphill, uphill battle, and he's going to have to prove a lot of people wrong because that noise is pretty loud.
- [47:42]
B
Well, let me ask you this, because you're talking to a lot of draft people, a lot of league people, a lot of college people at this point. Did the Jalen Brunson winning a title thing have any effect on everyone? Is everyone all of a sudden being like, I don't know, a cuff. You get the right system around him. I don't know if that's in Sacramento, but, like, if you get him to the right team, are people going to be more open to that now?
- [48:01]
D
Well, I mean, it's interesting because Acuff and Brunson are very different. Different stylistically. If you just want to talk about the basketball side of it, Brunson really sets up shop in the paint in a way that that Acuff doesn't. A lot of Acuff's trips to the rim are. Are passing. He kind of is shooting a floater, kind of just going, you know, Brunson goes in there and just like, he builds camp, and he's just like, I'm cool, I'm content. I'll. I got all the little upfront up fakes and everything. But on the human side of it, I think it is. It is a pretty interesting idea where it does mirror the Knicks a little bit, where you're. You're drafting familiarity, you're drafting somebody that you know a lot about that and. But the. The difference being here that he played at Arkansas with, like, if you want to go and, like, surround him with the other dudes who were at Arkansas, you're not going to have the same results. I can't even think of a tape. This is. I was curious to throw this to you. Like, is there a parallel for the Villanova thing? I. Honestly, Justin, I think your UConn teams are the closest thing. Like, if a team was like, I'm going to go, go. We have Castle. Let's go get clinging. Let's go get Caravan. Like, I.
- [49:06]
G
It.
- [49:06]
D
I don't even know if it's replicable, like, in terms of how they went about drafting guys that had history together.
- [49:13]
C
Yeah, I think Yukon's the right answer. And obviously, Barry, you can speak to that even more, but I think that's the only one that these days that would really fit. I mean, maybe there's, like. I mean, that we've seen the Duke thing try to work out RJ Barrett and Cam Reddish once upon a time, and I think they both hated each other more than people really suspected at the time. And Villanova, with Jay Wright, is kind of coached in a different but similar way with Dan Hurley. So I think they have The DNA that's built into him. And I think when you understand the ultimate goal is there, you have championship DNA, you know, to use one of those, you know, things that everyone likes to point out, I think UConn would be the obvious answer. And, you know, even if there is like, yeah, I mean, caravan to me is one of those guys where you, you know, early second round, you might just bring him in. If you're like the Spurs, I don't know what pick they have exactly around in that area, but maybe you just do that and say, hey, this guy knows how to play with him, knows how to find space, good jump shooter. We feel good about that. So, Yeah, I think UConn's the obvious answer.
- [50:08]
B
Wemby for clinging. Just lock it in. Now I'm in Acuff in Sacramento. Just quickly just. It's just so funny because I feel like they've been drafting team leaders who want to be there for so long. I'm sure this one will, will go right, but it's a whole other story.
- [50:24]
D
8.
- [50:25]
B
Atlanta Hawk Hawks Kyle Eddie I've thought
- [50:27]
D
a lot about this lately. Naturally, I feel like Kingston Flemings would be amazing in Atlanta. I think that there's been a whole lot of talk among Hawks fans about, like, well, we do need a big. But if you're getting, if you're in this situation. I've had people also say that this is purely a best player available franchise. So I think Kingston kind of checks both boxes in terms of needs and he's a high upside player where I think if you put his speed and his ability to pass the ball, which I think is underrated, in there with the guys that could protect him defensively. I think he's going to do fine defensive, defensively because he's, you know, fast and he's pretty strong and he's really competitive. I just think if you put him next to Dyson Daniels, Jalen Johnson, just all the link that they have, he would be an awesome compliment and I think he would help that team in the short term.
- [51:19]
B
I agree. Tate, you want to go with Dallas at 9?
- [51:22]
D
Yeah.
- [51:23]
C
I think this is, you know, after all the shuffling of the deck with the guards, I think that you look at this guy and you're saying, well, why wasn't he taken already? Braden buries out of Arizona. Another guy that I think defensively doesn't get talked about enough. I think he's a really good defender. There was a lot of conversation about Darren Peterson dodging the. The game against Arizona. I think some of that was fair speculation because I think he saw Braden Buries and was like, I, I don't know if I want any of that.
- [51:47]
D
And I think that cramping just thinking about it, you know what I'm saying?
- [51:52]
C
I think there was some of that involved. I don't want to read too much into the line there, but yeah, led the Wildcats in score. Has a really balanced kind of shot profile in general. Can get down to the rim, can be a catch and shoot guy. I just think that, you know, if you're Dallas, you're sitting there, you see all these guards that are coming off the board and you say to yourself, hey, feel pretty good about Braden Burry. He's a little bit older too, so I think he can help you in the short term, I think he can help you in the long term. And again, I just think that he is a really solid person. From what I've heard, everybody's enjoyed him being around him, he's had great workouts. So as far as being able to put him with the team that is hoping for larger aspirations, he doesn't have to be the franchise guy. When you have Flag there already. Maybe there's some, you know, mentorship that could happen with the Kyrie Irving as well. We'll see how that works out. But I just think Burry's there with the Mavericks would be a really good fit.
- [52:40]
D
Buries in Flag is just match made in heaven. If and when the Buries report came out about him being considered at 5, if he gets taken at 5, I'm going to be insufferable. Justin, I'm just going to warn you because there was a whole lot them whole. It may. It's just because I said that it's going to go the other way. Karma is going to kick me in the ass. But there are a whole lot of mouthy commenters saying I was an idiot for mocking that there. Buries is a playoff player, man. I mean like you talking like you're talking about the ball pressure. Tate, he's going to dish it out and I kind of feel like he's going to be able to take it. Like I just think that that's an increasingly demanding filter for guards coming into the league. Like Buries is tough on both. Both ways, man.
- [53:18]
B
Right. And if you're going to at this based off of like the new front office regime, not only Jerry but Mike Schmidt is in there like what is his type of player? It seems like it's very much this type. There's two way guys with some Skill.
- [53:29]
D
Chinese and big, right? Is there.
- [53:30]
C
What do we have?
- [53:32]
B
Not anymore. That's our problem here in Portland. Just left us with the bag. That's fine. I still believe in Young. I still believe number 10, the Milwaukee Bucks. Let's go out on this one. Hearing a lot of Nate Ament vibes, right? But I keep looking at Kyle Mann's draft board and I keep scrolling, I don't know where to find him.
- [53:53]
C
Oh, wait, no.
- [53:54]
B
Here he is at 20. Kyle is not a fan of native men.
- [53:57]
D
Here's my issue with, with. With a mint and with Chris Cenac from Houston is I. It's not that I'm. I'm always careful to put it this way. It's not that I'm out on these players. It's just their draft position represents the value or the level of investment and confidence. It's like, it's not that I don't think it could happen. It's just, am I comfortable in the investment with a player who is a hypothetical kind of stretch, three, four, who has, like, no rim pressure? Amit was really bad in the paint this year, this season, using Sanak as the other guys. Just like a guy who seems more, like, terrified to go in the paint, those guys. If you're not. If you're a hypothetical on both sides of the spectrum there, I'm just kind of like, well, you better be. And I just worry about Amit. What is he going to turn into? Now, granted, he has a lot of just positives. I mean, he's pretty. He's a smooth mover. He's a smooth player with the ball. I think he. He's got some passing upside. They may see him. You know, we were texting and we keep referencing this, and I know this is annoying to listen to for people. We keep referencing text messages we had. Bill and House and I were talking about where the, where the. The star bets are in this draft, and we all kind of agreed that it falls off after like, nine, ten, win. And if you're. If you're a team like Milwaukee, who's going to be retooling that, everybody expects, you know, Giannis to be traded here and soon. You're in a position to make a bat like that? I think so. You know, if I'm Milwaukee, I'd be considering that rather than going with, like, an established kind of role player, I'll take the talent bet because when am I going to have the chance again based on their pick situation? So, I mean, it makes sense, but that's where I stand on him. Tate, I don't about you.
- [55:36]
C
So you're going to take native minute number 10.
- [55:40]
D
This is, this isn't my board. This is what we're. We're projecting what could happen.
- [55:44]
C
Okay, well let me ask you this then.
- [55:46]
B
Just, just quickly like if it was you, who would you take? Given all the players that are off the board at this point, if it was just Kyle man in that war room, like who are you turning in?
- [55:59]
D
I mean 10 on my board is Jaden Quaintance, but there's a lot of disagreement about whether or not he's healthy. Healthy. I think he has the highest defensive upside of, of all the bigs in this draft. And for me that's a Yaxel.
- [56:12]
B
You still have all of the Michigan guys practically. Mara Mara is interesting and like Tate, I don't know where you far fall on Mara, but like seems like he's the type of guy who could go higher depending on if you're a true believer there. Where are you on Mara or where would you go at 10 if you had to pick?
- [56:31]
C
Yeah, I mean I think the, the question with Mara is like if you're bringing him to a team to be an actual franchise type guy, I don't think that's. I think he has to go to a team where he's just like a plug in to an already kind of established order of things. And I think really just kind of like figuring out how long could he play in effect a game. You know what I mean? It's like the motor of a daimar would be the big question, but the skill was obviously there. So I think for you know, some of the teams kind of like in the 12 to 16 range feels more like Mara. Even Atlanta, as Kyle mentioned before, maybe that makes sense for Mara. But again it has to be like an established order that's already there. Real team that just needs like another piece there at the center. I mean Nate men is an uncommon type player. I mean dribble, pass, shoot, his growth plates are still open, he can still grow. He's 611 as it currently stands. So I mean there is upside and if we know anything about Milwaukee's history, this is a team that took thon maker number 10. Right. So we have to understand that they have taken big swings before. So it would not shock me at all if they did that again. So I think that's why Amend is kind of there there. If they wanted to be a little bit safer, maybe they go with the Yaxel Lindborg just to bring him in. And say, hey, we have a nice piece. Maybe it's a trade piece that some other teams could have some interest in, and maybe they just go for the safer route there. But I do think Nate admit makes a lot of sense. I've seen Milwaukee Bucks fans very upset about this, but I think there's a world in which if a mint goes to a clean slate type team kind of has a free Runway, doesn't have expectations, doesn't have pressure, he could develop. In three years, we're seeing saying, how did Nate men not go top five in the draft? Because he does have that type of talent. But we saw him at Tennessee, seemed spooked by the pain, willing to fade away at any. At any juncture, just to stay away from the rim. So I think those are the things that kind of keep you away. And obviously, when you watch someone that intently and that closely, it does make it a little bit harder to kind of buy in. But, yeah, number 10 for me, I think the safe pick would be Linda Borg, even though I don't know how safe that actually is. But, you know, I think Nate admit makes sense.
- [58:27]
G
Sense.
- [58:28]
D
Linda Borg, a point on that one. There's a. I've heard a lot of concern about, like, the type of structure that it's going to take to get the most out of Linda Borg, like, in the short term. Granted, he's a really talented player. I don't think that it's like he's like a. Like a cancer or anything like that. It's just more of a focus thing with him, from what I understand. So him coming into a team that has, like, really established structure, really established development, like, or strong as an organization. And it's not that the Bucks aren't strong, it's just that there's just no framework there in terms of who they are right now. You know, if Giannis were there and he was like, come on in here and be under my wingspan, young Yaxel, I would feel pretty good about that, but that's kind of my hesitation. And. And we do this all the time, where if you have a top 10 pick, I think there's sort of a mirage that you're in a position to make an upside swing. And that's one of the most dangerous places in the draft, year in, year out, where you're straddling this like, well, well, should we not waste this opportunity to take this talent? Because we're here. Teams repeatedly do that, and then we'll see players in the 11, 12, 13, 14 range get looked over because they're not as sexy as the upside since. And those are players like Donovan Mitchell, Devin Booker, I mean Shay. Where did Shea go? I was 11. 11. It happens a lot. Or the guys that seem like kind of of less attractive ideas are just there in plain sight. It's hard to tell who that's going to be in this year's draft, but it happens every single year.
- [59:59]
B
Why don't we wrap it there? Thank you, Tate. We went through the entire top 10. It's absolutely going to play out like this. So we look forward to just telling you how right you are after the fact.
- [60:11]
C
No, I won't bury to go number five so Kyle can have his victory lap. So that's what I'm rooting for.
- [60:16]
D
It's going to go 11 and it's going to. That's what I deserve.
- [60:19]
B
He also has him at 6 on the board here. I just want to point that out, like, so he's confident, but he's like not all the way top five confident.
- [60:27]
D
He's just a stable idea to me. I just. I think Burry's is just. I don't know. It might not. There are people who think he has on ball upside too. If you think that, then yeah, I mean, he's a big buries fan. Could see he could have played in these playoffs. I think he could have.
- [60:42]
C
I agree.
- [60:44]
B
All right, Tate, thanks so much for joining us.
- [60:46]
C
Of course. Appreciate you guys.
- [60:48]
B
All right, why don't we wrap it there? Thank you to Victoria Valencia. Thank you to Ashley Smith for filling in today. We'll be back on Monday. Talk to you then. 21 and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in D.C. kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or 1-800-MY RESET. Call 1-888-78977 777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text HOPE NY in New York, Louisiana, call 1-877-770-7867.
- [61:40]
C
Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile with a message for everyone paying big wireless way too much. Please, for the love of everything good in this world, stop with Mint. You can get premium wireless for just $15 a month. Of course, if you enjoy overpaying.
- [61:52]
G
No judgments.
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C
But that's weird.
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G
Okay.
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C
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E
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