← The Ringer NBA Show
The Ringer NBA Show
NBA Conference Finals Preview and Predictions. Plus, What’s Next for the Denver Nuggets?
01:11:06
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- [00:00]
Logan Murdoch
You're listening to the Ringer NBA show.
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Raja Bell
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Cliff
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Logan Murdoch
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Logan Murdoch
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Raja Bell
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Logan Murdoch
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Raja Bell
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Cliff
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Raja Bell
Listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus and present in select states. Gambling problem. Call 1-800- GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com.
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Logan Murdoch
This episode is brought to you by Lionsgate.
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Raja Bell
From the world of John Wick comes.
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Logan Murdoch
The movie Ballerina, only in theaters June 6th. The greatest action franchise of the past decade is back, starring Ana de Armas.
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Raja Bell
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Logan Murdoch
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Raja Bell
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- [01:14]
Logan Murdoch
Ballerina, only in theaters June 6th. What's Poppin? Real ones. Logan Murdoch here, Roger Bell there. Raja. Me and Raja have just had a 30 minute pre pod meeting that was actually just jokes and talks about Averex leathers and Fubu velour and eventually we're going to talk about it. What is your favorite velour sweatsuit that you have ever had?
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Raja Bell
Oh, favorite velour. Yeah.
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Logan Murdoch
Well that you look back and you like damn.
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Raja Bell
Technically, technically I don't know the rules surrounding like being canceled or like, like you know, I don't know the rules. But, but so forgive me. I'm going to preface what I'm going to say with that. It's a toss up between like a Sean John.
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Logan Murdoch
Okay.
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Raja Bell
Because they used to make. I had a black and gray one that was like crispy. I used to like that one and then Nietzsche and then I think I had a rock. I think Rockaware was making velours back then. But like to Cliff's point, I was in Philly for a couple of years when Rockaware was like it. So like if they made velours, I had them and I wore them.
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Logan Murdoch
Me and Victoria and Cliff. Pre, pre pre pod meeting. We're just talking about. It was. We were talking about Gilly the kid and then it just went into a conversation about Zoo York and Averex and how I used to have the G unit velour with the G unit sneakers and then I used to have a FUBU red blue FUBU velour.
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Raja Bell
Okay.
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Logan Murdoch
With the forces. I thought I was cold. We just go to Bayfair Mall and just, just walk. You know when you back in the day, you just walk in the mall. You didn't have nothing else to do, nowhere to go. Just walk.
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Raja Bell
Yeah. You want my folks to see what you were wearing? Like.
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Logan Murdoch
Yeah, exactly, exactly, exactly. Anyway, I don't have a transition for this, but. Okay. I want to talk OKC Thunder, Denver Nuggets. Just let's, let's wrap up that series and we're going to talk about our favorite storylines going to the conference finals. Really excited about that. It's been a while since we talked. I think it had been a weak raw going into OKC Denver series. We always talk about poise within the playoffs and I was really curious to see how OKC would be in a crazy environment like a Game 7, especially in this series against a team and the Denver Nuggets that have championship experience, although are battered as a basketball team and a franchise and an organizationally and all the isms that you want to. You want to bring out. But I was still wanted to see how OKC would respond to that. And early in that game I was really concerned about OKC and the outcry because it doesn't matter what you do in the regular season any, especially in this apron environment, if you lose prematurely in the playoffs, it could be. It could spell the end of that roster as you know it. So there's a lot of pressure riding on Oklahoma City and they come out flat. And then Denver takes out Murray and Jokic and it was never the same after that. And it just seemed like for the second straight year Denver just runs out of gas, whether it be from the injury standpoint or just being just downright tired. And you saw that. What did you see from this game 7? How does it educate how you feel about OKC going into the conference finals? And how do you see Denver going forward? We all know the cap situation with them and what they have to do. Just what are your thoughts on all of that? It's a very Logan Murdoch question that I just gave you. I gave you seven questions. I hope you can answer at least five of them.
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Raja Bell
Let's see. What did the game say to me? Well. Well, honestly, you know, that is what OKC was going to be, at least from my perspective through these Playoffs, Like, I thought they were the better team. I had them pick, go to the finals. I still do, but, but there was going to be some learning on the fly, some growing up right before our eyes. There were going to be some situations that they found themselves in that they were going to have to big boy themselves up out of, and they did that. Right. And so, you know, I think, I think for me, because Ryan, I was on with Ryan and he asked me, like, if it had kind of changed my opinion of them at all. And the answer was kind of no, because I, I thought that was going to be the case. Like, I, I, they are a good team. They've got a lot of weapons. They're great defensively. They got a lot going for them. But, you know, we were going to have to see if Chet could, could deliver. We were going to have to see if, if J. Will could, could deliver in support of sga. And so all of those things were going to have to play themselves out. And if they did, you. You supposed that they would win the games, right? From Denver's perspective, I mean, with everything going on with them, I thought it was a valiant effort. I want to give, I want to give a shout out to Coach Adelman. Like that was, that was a, that was a valiant effort. Do I think, you know, he, he got outworked in the last game. Yeah. But like, I got to give him credit for, for, for having them playing deeper and harder than, than I thought I would have given him credit for up front right now. I don't know how much of that has to do with him. Like, Jokic is phenomenal, and how did.
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Logan Murdoch
He do based on expectations that you had going into the play.
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Raja Bell
But that's what I'm saying, That's what I'm saying. Like, I'm not critiquing his last game's performance as a coach. I'm just saying I thought they would be completely dead in the water. And if I'm being fair and honest and calling things a buck, I think he did better than I thought he would. Like, I really do. So I got to give him credit. They have work to do on their roster, Logan. Yeah, like, they, they, they just, they just have work to do on the roster. And that's what that boils down to. OKC was a 60 some win team. They were a better team than Denver.
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Logan Murdoch
Yeah, I mean, that just shows, I think, even the greatness of Jokic. Right. He had a, he had a good series by joking Sanders that he had 28. He averaged 28 and 14 was below 50% shooting wise, but he was great. You will take that. He wasn't historically great, which is what was needed in this series, obviously, but what I did like about Jokic, and I do want to get your point of view on this one. Like, I think from a leadership standpoint, he took a step as well, right where or maybe it just wasn't needed in previous years and he needed to step up even more now with Adelman now in the fold. But you saw him more than ever being more animated on the floor, getting guys in position, talking to them on the bench, getting the board and just like saying, here's a play, this is what I need from you guys. Right. And that was really impressive though. Raja, was Jokic maturation as a leader too?
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Raja Bell
Yeah, well, yeah, while impressive, I don't think that's, I don't know that that's what you want him to be. I don't think that he's a front facing star like that. Do you know what I mean? Like, I don't. I think he's way more comfortable. Like if you see him, he don't like the cameras. Like, he wants to just be going to do his thing. He wants to just come in there.
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Logan Murdoch
And hoop and drink beer.
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Raja Bell
You know what I mean? Like, that's the sense, that's the sense that I get from him. Now, I don't know him, but like just, just. I think while leadership is great, I think he was always probably a subtle behind the scenes, maybe not upfront and in your face as much type of leader. Right. And I think the fact that you might have had to see it more speaks to like what was going on on the staff and within the organization and that void that he had to step into to try to fill a little bit. And kudos to him and you were right. Like we saw it play out, but I don't think that that's his like comfort zone of having to do like, come on, man, like, he does literally everything on, on the floor. We don't want him to have to do everything for the team. Like, we don't want him having to be coaching in every timeout and shit like that. And so, you know, let's not forget the Michael Porter Jr. Like, he didn't play great. Injury, shoulder injury, you know, Gordon last game, Hammy, like they were right there. I don't think this is an indictment necessarily on Denver, but I do think they have to work on that roster a little bit.
- [09:40]
Logan Murdoch
Yeah, I mean a lot of those people that you name might not be on the team next year. I mean, it is going to be hard to move Murray, for instance, right. With that contract and not necessarily an all NBA or all star guy. And you're paying him a lot of money. Michael Porter is going to be good. But I just, it's. With this new apron, it is so prohibitive if you are a really good expensive team to just build around it. Right. And I think we're seeing that bearing fruit. I mean, we talked. I was listening to Zach Lowen, Howard motherfucking Beck and just talking about how hard it is for Boston to recover from this Tatum injury because there's just so many pieces that just have to fall. Right. And what do you do in that case? I don't know what Denver does. And this is not necessarily like a Cap Ologist as podcast, but we do. It's more of just like how do they sustain? And I don't know because I really just think that this roster kind of is what it is at this point and you have to figure out something. But it's been years and years of, you know, not keeping kcp. You know, I know that's a big thing, right? Or not being able to keep Bruce Brown. It's just really hard to play around one guy when you don't have the depth. And so speaking of depth, let's go to the. Okay, well, first, before I get to the depth part, try to go. I try to go full transition. But I did want to ask you about Aaron Gordon though, right before we get out of here, like, just to a grade two hamstring is nuts. Right? Like, to play on that is really. Is crazy. And he played really well to start the game, but that was not going to be sustainable. That's why you don't play with one of those things, right? Like, even if they were to win, they were probably going to lose Aaron Gordon for the next couple of weeks or he was going to make it worse and not play for the next few months. Right. So talk about that and what you felt about that decision and if it was the right one at the end of the day.
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Raja Bell
Okay, well, let's. Let me, let me first just touch on you talking about the roster. Look, you know, Christian Brown took a nice step, right? Like what you're going to have to do is get these younger players to develop and step into Peyton Watson's come away. He's got to continue to get better. Like that's how you sustain in this new reality. That is the second apron. Right? Like, you got to Hit on those. They have to develop into real pieces and players within what you're trying to do. As far as Aaron Gordon goes, like it was just a really, you know, gutsy effort. It's always a tough call. It's always a tough call on a team when, when you're injured and you're trying to figure out whether yourself, at whatever percentage you can be, is a help or if it's a hindrance to the team, whether you're going to, whether you're going to provide something that, that they need or whether, you know, a healthy body off the bench is going to give them more than you. I had that in the 06 playoffs, Western Conference finals, I think in game one in Dallas. I, I, I tore my calf muscle and I sat games two and three, and I came back in game four. I could not move on it. I was like Aaron Gordon in that. I came out of the blocks hot, like, hit like seven quick points, and it was an emotional lift for our team. But for the rest of that game, like, I was dragging my leg around the court. I couldn't move. And it took me almost all summer to get my calf back into shape where I could be ready to play the next season. So I remember on the broadcast, before I played in that game, I think it was Magic Johnson was saying that, you know, I shouldn't be out there playing. Like, I was not helping our team. And the only reason I remember that is because I did the halftime interview and someone, you know, the sideline reporter asked me what was my response to that. And it was an excruciatingly tough call for me.
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Logan Murdoch
Right.
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Raja Bell
Mike d' Antonio.
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Logan Murdoch
Imagine, by the way, who had, who had pulled his hamstring. He was speaking from experience because he pulled his hamstring in the. Before the 89 finals, I believe, or 1 or 91 one of those finals. He had done that. So I'm sure he was.
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Raja Bell
Yeah, well, I didn't hold it one way or another against Magic. Like, it didn't matter. It didn't matter to me that the call was tough to make regardless, right? Because your coach, your coach is going to want to play you. You tell them you're healthy, you pass the medical staffs like, you know, eval by, by like, fooling them, like, and, and your coach is going to run, want to run you out there and play you. Do you have enough to help them get over the hump that night? Or is this a selfish move by saying, I just want to play and not letting the guy behind you get his opportunity to help the team. It's a very, very tough call in his situation. I think he made the right call. I think it was the gutsy performance. I don't know that they had anything else over there that was. That was going to be, you know, better than him in that moment. He meant so much to their team. So, you know, I thought it was a gutsy performance.
- [14:43]
Logan Murdoch
Yeah, I thought it was, too. I mean, he was also playing for his brother who passed away in a. In a car accident. Like, there wasn't. There was an act. There was an emotional element to this outside of the team.
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Raja Bell
Right, sure.
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Logan Murdoch
And. And that'll make you do some things, but that's just. I think him even. You know, one of the things you said in there was like, the selfish part, right. Where you might want to play somebody behind you. Right. And just let them get an op. There's nobody behind him.
- [15:11]
Raja Bell
That's what I'm saying.
- [15:12]
Logan Murdoch
That could. You know what I mean? There's nobody that can. That can play behind him in that way, and that can be effective. I mean, this series. What a season for Denver in all those ways. Right. You're playing hard, and you're right there at the conference finals because, like, here's the thing. If they get out of that game, they get into that series, probably wouldn't. I don't think that they could sustain much without Gordon against the Timberwolves. Right. But, you know, you find yourself to the conference finals based on the season that you had, it's not a bad place to go. The NBA playoffs are finally here, and there's no better way to be a part of the action than with FanDuel, America's number one sportsbook. After another competitive season, the top teams are ready to battle their way through the playoff bracket in hopes of taking home the championship. And if you think you know how it's all going to go down, then make those predictions pay off with FanDuel and NBA Profit Boost. Simply make your bet, activate your boost, and go for even bigger winnings. Just one game on the slate tonight. OKC versus Minnesota. I'm going to take OKC and I'm going to take the over on points for Shea, the under on assist forum, and the under on rebounds. Don't just be a spectator this season. Head to FanDuel.com Ringer MBA to download America's number one sportsbook and make every moment more. Must be 21 years and older and present in select states or 18 and older and present in D.C. optum required bonus issued as non withdrawable profit boost tokens. Restrictions apply including any token separation and max wager amount. Seek terms@sportsbook.fanduel.com Gambling problem. Call 100 Gambler or visit rg-help.com this episode is brought to you by Cognigy. Customer service can be so frustrating waiting.
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Raja Bell
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Mattel Heinz and Allbirds continue to trust and use them. With Shopify on your side, turn your big business idea into Sign up for your $1 per month trial at shopify.com specialoffer let's talk okc timberwolves where we're having. Oh, before we get out of that, what did you think about Shay and his performance? Because on one hand his numbers were a bit down, right? He had the, he struggled in the middle of that series, the overtime loss the next game. Believe that was game five where he didn't shoot a ton. But I think it was a real like, seminal Shay game where he does make big shots down the stretch on the road and gets a, gets a win. And he has, he has the iconic moment where he smiles off the court and people are like bashing him, calling him essence Harden, which was hilarious. And then he kind of comes out and, you know, he kind of helps take that series. What kind of step was that for Shea?
- [19:00]
Raja Bell
That's the next step in the evolution of, of, of any superstar, right? It's having, you know, playoff moments, whether good or bad, and persevere and figuring out ways to get your team over the hump and Just. And, and. And get a win. It doesn't matter how you win. Like, I don't give a. I don't give a shit about the numbers in that series. They zone the man up like 60% of the time. Like, numbers are going to be down when they, when they, when they decide they're just going to have basically two guys at the top of the zone responsible for sga. Yeah, your numbers are going to be down. And so, like, I don't. I'm not really worrying about numbers. It's whether you can get out of the. Get out of that series and onto the next. And he did that, I would say. I don't. I don't think Minnesota zones them nearly as much, but maybe they don't need to. Maybe they don't at all. But if they do, you know, got to move him around a little bit against the zone. Gotta, gotta. They need to be a little crisper in their ability to attack a zone earlier in a shot clock in areas that are gonna put that zone in harm's way and crack the code quicker to get teams out of it.
- [20:06]
Logan Murdoch
I mean, it's a big series for J Dub as well. Right? Because at times you can see with OKC's office, they have amazing defense, which we're going to talk about in a second, and how they defend Minnesota. But okay, J Dub needs to be. He cannot be like how he was in game six. He needs to be solid secondary scoring. And they can score by committee because Oklahoma City is so deep. Right. With Chad, with J Dub, with Cason, with a lot of the guys there, they can manufacture buckets, but their offense has been stagnant. I'm curious to see how J Dub comes. He's one of my favorite players, can be a little inconsistent, but I think that goes to. Over the overall arching theme of Oklahoma City right now, which is you look at the rest of the. The teams that were supposed to be here. I feel like they're the only ones that are left of that group. Right. Where all season long we were talking about the Celtics, all season long we were talking about the Cavs. And it's so funny that the young team was able to get through this gauntlet so far. Right. They still got a long ways to go. They still want to get to the finals. They are still the best team left in the league, but you see a maturation process kind of happening in real time. You saw that a little bit in the first round. In the first round, first game of this second round series where no matter what you are what your record says. You're still a young team. And you start to see them figuring it out. Roger, you start to see them figuring things out in real time and have to be reminded, oh, wait, no, y' all got us fucked up. We have to cook now. And you starting to see them reach levels. And that's been the most impressive thing so far, when I think about Oklahoma City, is that you're seeing them grow in real time when other teams haven't necessarily had that maturation process, and those other teams are veteran teams. So it's been really a treat to watch OKC so far.
- [22:03]
Raja Bell
Yeah, no doubt. You know, again, coming into the, Coming into the postseason, like you. You thought that from a talent perspective, from a body of work perspective, they were primed to do some pretty cool stuff. But the question is always, how quickly do you grow up? And that's not just in basketball, right? Like, that's in that. How quickly can you, you know, learn from these mistakes and not make them the second time? Does it cost you a series? That series then cost you the year? Like, do we learn it on the fly quick enough to. And they've done that, and it's been pretty cool to watch. And now you'll get to see two young superstars, like, lock horns. It should be very, very entertaining.
- [22:46]
Logan Murdoch
What do you want to see from. From Shea, and what do you want to see from Anthony in this series?
- [22:53]
Raja Bell
I mean, I. So I love them both because they're both two way guys, right? Like, they're both guys. I talk about this a lot, who can impact the game, you know, in, In. In multiple ways. Like, I, you know, I always reference my son Ty, because I look through basketball or I look at it through his lens a lot, and a lot of these pros I use as, like, teaching points for him. You know, he had a live period up in. In Ohio this past weekend, and he had the flu all weekend, right? And he was like, I could see his body, like, wearing down, and I just kept reminding him, like, about, like, hey, man, if. If by chance you're not scoring the ball, there are ways to impact the game. Like, and that is very, very valuable. And so I use those two as, like, teaching tools for him, right? Like, and it wound up happening. Like, he didn't have a great one, and. And he was still out there defending and rebounding and. And trying to play. And so I'm looking for both of those guys to play through whatever hiccups they. Whatever hiccups they may have offensively if they should rear their heads in this series because of a game plan from the other side. To continue to be the champion that they are, to have the eye of the tiger, so to speak, to be aggressive, to be defending, to be boarding, to be. To be present in a way that makes their team feel comfortable and confident. Even if it means that the rest of them have to step up around that. That player, you know, and support them. But you still have to be the. The human being, the leader, the presence that you've always been. Right. And I, And I. I'm looking forward to seeing how each one of them given a game plan that's devised to stop them, if it should work, how they manage that.
- [24:28]
Logan Murdoch
Yeah, I mean, I'm. I'm really curious to see how Shay does in this moment. I mean, they have already lost to Minnesota already. Right. And that was pre Hartenstein. That was a different one roster. And also they were younger. But I want to see how Shay plays when he is the favorite against this. Right. Or because there's a. The next step. Because, you know, you talk, listen to every podcast, you listen, take every prediction, and we're going to do our predictions in a second. But by and large, OKC is expected to win this series. They absolutely should. Right? They have the depth, they have the star, they have the crowd or they did what they. One thing they don't have on them is. Is attrition. But I mean, they're a young team. They'll figure it out. But I want to see how they do when they're. And they've done this all postseason, but I want to see how they do when they're expected to do something. Right. And there's an inherent pressure that comes with that. And so that's something that I want to see. Um, it's going to be. I think it's going to be a tough series for Ant in this way just because he is. This isn't. This isn't the Golden State warriors where you can just work your way into a series. You know, where he struggled the first two games. It really didn't matter. Even the last couple of games of the Lakers series. He just didn't play well and the team picked him up. He needs to be on 10 from jump and he needs to play within himself. They cannot have the turnovers that they've had in the first two rounds. That's going to be the key turnovers.
- [26:10]
Raja Bell
Is it fair? Like he's, he's been. He's had superstar moments this play, this, this, this playoff run, but he hasn't been a consistent superstar. Like, in terms of.
- [26:19]
Logan Murdoch
I don't think he's had a game. Ra.
- [26:22]
Raja Bell
Yeah, maybe not a game. I mean, you. You might be right.
- [26:25]
Logan Murdoch
I say game. When I say game, I don't mean. I know the real ones are going like, well, he had this stat sheet and this chat sheet. When I saw him against Golden State, it was like, okay, he had a quarter, right? And that was a fucking brilliant quarter. Or a brilliant quarter and a half. Not a game to where, like, he is in complete control. He is just trying to figure it out. I'm sure somebody's gonna throw a game at me, but like a consistent game that you remember, I might give him a game.
- [26:53]
Raja Bell
But I hear what you're saying, though. I feel you. I feel.
- [26:55]
Logan Murdoch
Right. Hey, also, there's always some stuff that we talk about on this pod where we'll say something on the pod and then we'll immediately get flooded within our mentions. Like, oh, here's. Here's a YouTube link to this game you talking about, dumbass. But that's the feeling that you haven't gotten, right? You get what I'm saying, right? He hasn't put his imprint in the playoffs the way you would want him to.
- [27:14]
Raja Bell
Yeah, well, I would agree. Well, look, I. To defend him, I just say, we're winning, we're here. So, like, whatever. But. But I would agree with you that in this series, that's going to have to be more consistent.
- [27:26]
Logan Murdoch
Absolutely.
- [27:27]
Raja Bell
Yeah. It's going to. You're just going to have. It's just got to be more consistent. And that would hold true, you know, whoever. Whoever you're playing as you level up throughout the course of a playoffs is going to require you to play better and more consistently, at least theoretically. So, like, he's going to have to be. He's going to have to be on point. I would agree with you.
- [27:42]
Logan Murdoch
What do you think about the match between him and Lou Dort?
- [27:48]
Raja Bell
Yeah, I mean, look, they're going to throw. They're going to throw Lou at him.
- [27:51]
Logan Murdoch
They got a lot of Jalen Williams.
- [27:53]
Raja Bell
They got a lot of people to throw at him. You know, a lot of this series is going to depend on, for me offensively for Minnesota and what Ant is able to do. Or maybe not what he's able to do. That's the wrong way to put it because it makes it sound like he's dependent on. On Julius Randle to play well. And I don't believe that to absolutely be the case, but, man, he could get so much More breathing room if Julius Randle keeps up his level of play.
- [28:18]
Logan Murdoch
Yeah, right.
- [28:19]
Raja Bell
Because if he really is supporting in the way that he's been supporting and he's producing in that way, it just. The defense can't tilt in the way that it would want to tilt if it was just an out there, you know, and that was the only fire you had to put out.
- [28:34]
Logan Murdoch
The thing that concerns me if I am Minnesota is just how their offense can get a little stagnant at times because there's a lot of one on one play. Right. And also, like Ant sometimes isn't decisive with the basketball in the way that you would want him to be. And they just have offensive lulls, you know what I'm saying? And that requires Ant to be decisive and it requires Randall to be decisive. And he's been great against the warriors and against the Lakers, but those two teams didn't really have front lines like that. You know what I mean? They didn't have. They didn't. They were not even close to the defensive presence that Oklahoma City is, both by the numbers and both by the sheer bodies that are on okc. Right.
- [29:21]
Raja Bell
And size.
- [29:22]
Logan Murdoch
And size. So, like, if he's going to the cup, he's going to. He can't just put his head down and just like dribble the ball in the middle of the paint and just bully people in there. No, he's going to have to make decisive moves, get to the cup, lay up right here. Decisive moves, Step back. Ah, he's not going to be able to, you know, just be as patient as he is with this, with this OKC defense. And I'm also concerned about that with Ant as well.
- [29:51]
Raja Bell
Well, I, I mean, I don't know what he's going to be able to do. I'm fascinated to see what he'll be able to do. You know, while it might be more difficult around the rim to get to that right shoulder, into that left hand the way he wants to, you could make an argument that because of the matchup, if it's size out on the floor, that he might have a more, you know, he might have his way more out on the perimeter, you know, if, if you will, and. And off the bounce. But it's just going to be. The chess match is going to be really fascinating. And again, I think that Ant, with the support, if he should get it, it would alleviate. You know, this is all. We're all. A lot of. This is all about, like, the amount of stress for a young player that's on, you to win it on your own, right? Like, even SGA phenomenal games, but, man, you need a little bit of help, right? You got to get that second guy to. And so, like, if you should get the help, it just. It relaxes the star in. In this. In the same way you always ask me, Logan, how. How does a role guy feel when they see the star come out and he looks great? And I'm like, man, that makes me feel really good. It relaxes me. Right? Well, from a star's perspective, it works the same way. Like, yo, I know I'm getting support around the edges, bro. I. I can just roll, you know, I don't. I don't. I don't have to be perfect tonight because I'm getting help. So that's going to be interesting to see both sides.
- [31:12]
Logan Murdoch
I mean, from a defensive standpoint, in Minnesota, like, the length that they have with McDaniels is great. With Gobert, what do. What do they need to do to sustain with OKC's front line, which is huge? You got Hartenstein, you got Chet. Just, again, have bodies. What do you see in the battle in the trenches from these. From both teams?
- [31:35]
Raja Bell
Yeah, well, I mean, you know, can chat. Look. I mean, can Chet be a true number three offensively consistently?
- [31:48]
Logan Murdoch
Is.
- [31:48]
Raja Bell
Is to some degree going to be the answer to OKC this year and what they can be and then. And then moving forward, right? Like, because we're kind of penciling him in as at minimum that. Right? Like a number three. A consistent number three. Right.
- [32:05]
Logan Murdoch
The.
- [32:05]
Raja Bell
Where. Where the ceiling is on that. Who knows? 7 foot with all this skill level. But can you consistently be a. A number three scoring option? Maybe sometimes a number two scoring option? What does Rudy's minutes look like? I just made the case, you know, an hour ago that, like, they were more organic matchup minutes for him in this series because of the size of. Of okc. But I also said that, like, they have the best score on the planet in sga. So, like, while other teams haven't really had a ton of success hunting him and, like, in pick and roll and really exposing him out in space, OKC is kind of uniquely positioned with SGA to do that.
- [32:52]
Logan Murdoch
Like.
- [32:53]
Raja Bell
Like the cat and mouse game that is that his minutes, because there are more bigs on the floor versus, like, hey, SGA can really expose you out there in space. Just kind of fascinated to see how that plays out. I don't have definitive answers. These are all just things that, you know, as you go into a series, you know, you're Trying to take note of might give you a little roadmap as to where the series will go.
- [33:14]
Logan Murdoch
Who was the role guy from Minnesota that needs to step up? And I'm not the Randle. I'm not counting in this, by the way. Randle is a guy you can pencil in or that you would need to pencil in. Who are the guys that need to step up to help offset that. That burden, the scoring burden that both of those guys in Julius Randle and Ant have to have? I mean, Conley's there. McDaniels is there. Rudy's not necessarily a scorer. Nas Reed has been a bit up and down throughout the playoffs. Like, who needs to be consistent?
- [33:49]
Raja Bell
Well, Julius Randle, right? And then either nas Reed or MC or McDaniel need to be on point. Any given night, I got to get one of them.
- [34:02]
Logan Murdoch
Or even if they alternate nights.
- [34:04]
Raja Bell
No, on any given night, I need to get one of them. And, and, and so they. Yes, that could be an alternating thing. Or if I get both, I feel really good about this. If I get both, then Julius Randle can have a semi off night. You know what I mean? But, like, I'm going to need three guys. I need three. And that's why I keep saying, like, Chet as number three over there. But real talk, you know, you could. It. It could be Caruso or it could be, you know, Hartenstein or Lou Dort or anybody like that, but you're going to need that third guy. So for me, it would be McDaniel and. And Nas Reed. Minnesota.
- [34:36]
Logan Murdoch
Yeah, I. Time for prediction. I. I really like Minnesota, as you know, I really love Ant. I just don't think that they're deep enough at this stage of their season. And OKC getting out of that series was really bad for Minnesota. Like, there's a world where I know they were rooting for Denver because if they get Denver as a hobble team with less depth, they could. They're probably a shoe when to go to the finals now. I just. I just can't see them sustaining that effort and cutting down on the turnovers in the way that they should and playing smart enough basketball to overcome this Oklahoma City Thunder team. And that's okay, but I'm going to go with the Thunder in six. Roger.
- [35:23]
Raja Bell
Yeah, man. Yeah, this is a tough one for me, but I picked okc and I'm going to stay with okc. Going to be a really interesting physical. The playoffs have been physical in general. Yeah, it's going to be interesting to watch these two teams, like, beat each Other up. I do think though that that okc, from a defensive perspective, even Minnesota is great defensively too. If Minnie's got a propensity to turn the ball over a little bit, that really fuels okc. Like they, if you, if you give them some freebies and they're out in transition. I mean, you saw it at the end of the second quarter in game seven. Like it was, it was, it was right there and then, and then Denver just fumbled four balls and it's a 14 point game. So anyway, I'm going to, I'm going to take Denver tight one at six, six or seven, I don't know.
- [36:19]
Logan Murdoch
You're going to take okc.
- [36:20]
Raja Bell
Sorry, okc.
- [36:21]
Logan Murdoch
Sorry.
- [36:21]
Raja Bell
Yes.
- [36:21]
Logan Murdoch
I meant cut that in post.
- [36:27]
Raja Bell
Leave it in either or.
- [36:28]
Logan Murdoch
Okay, okay. For sure, for sure.
- [36:30]
Raja Bell
I mean, who are we? Professional?
- [36:32]
Logan Murdoch
This game one is interesting though. This game one is interesting in this series though, Roger, because you have a team in Minnesota who last round just wet the bed after having an immense amount of rest going into a series. And they have that same amount of rest going into this series. It started on the road. They could get blitzed and this series could be over before you know it. If they're not, if they're not on their shit.
- [36:56]
Raja Bell
And I can't see, I mean, it's so hard to predict. Predicting is so difficult. But I, I cannot imagine having already done that, that they come out and do that again. I can't imagine that I, I, I can't imagine that they come out. Everything you will be talking about around that building is, is to guard against and remind people of what happened the last time we had this scenario. So, yeah, I just couldn't. I don't think that happens. But if they do, yeah, you're in trouble.
- [37:26]
Logan Murdoch
Welcome back to pack Watch with Zomi, who is ready to make you feel worse about your team than you already do.
- [37:31]
Raja Bell
What's up, real ones, you know who it be.
- [37:34]
Logan Murdoch
Jeremy back with another pack watch. And you know, I'm supposed to pack up the Celtics, but you know, with JT's injury, hey, man, hope he gets well soon.
- [37:45]
Raja Bell
Soon.
- [37:46]
Logan Murdoch
And I could go on and on about like the fake dynasty, you know, old one chip dynasty, all that stuff. But something's really weighing on me deep in my chest. And so I want to give a pack watch to CJ McCollum and Grant Williams for what they did to my beloved basketball league. How dare you. This CBA is garbage and you cannot build teams with the way the, the league is structured now. Man, what happened to Donald Parody this, parody that, brother. That's not what gets us hype, dog. Now, I don't think, like, Golden State.
- [38:24]
Raja Bell
And Cleveland Sham are going to the.
- [38:25]
Logan Murdoch
Finals 10 times in a row, right? Obviously, no one should do that. But, man, you can't keep nobody. You team no more.
- [38:32]
Cliff
Your team gets good.
- [38:33]
Logan Murdoch
Too expensive. You got to blow it up. It's.
- [38:36]
Cliff
We've seen it over the last couple years.
- [38:38]
Logan Murdoch
Years, man. We've seen it with Denver. We're gonna see it with Boston in the summer, dog. It's no fun no more. You can't keep teams together. Good teams, man. And that's not good for the league, according to me. I feel like we complain about all basketball this, basketball that. I feel like this is root cause. Grant Williams, C.J. mcConnell. Come on.
- [38:57]
Raja Bell
What are y' all doing?
- [38:59]
Logan Murdoch
You're ruining my game. And that was Jeremy Adenaron with the Pack. Watch. Let's talk about nostalgia of Raj's childhood, which is. Pacers, Knicks. I do not have a feel for this series. I just want to get my popcorn and watch it. You know, I don't really, like. I don't. I don't know what what is. I just have questions for you right now. First of all, how's the Bell household? Who's. How is everyone excited for this? Is a lot of Knicks fans talking shit in the group chats that you're not responding to. What. What's. What's. What's this series doing to the Bell household, the Bell family as a whole now?
- [39:32]
Raja Bell
We're good. We're good, man. We're so busy. We don't really have, like.
- [39:35]
Logan Murdoch
We.
- [39:35]
Raja Bell
Nobody's really. No one's locked into these playoffs other than me. Ty. But, Ty, my wife and I. Right. Like, everybody else is just busy doing their thing, but we are going to have some Knicks. We're going to have some Knicks fans sitting on the couch watching the games. But we're not. We're not into it like that.
- [39:51]
Logan Murdoch
No. So no propaganda happening? No orange and blue skies?
- [39:54]
Raja Bell
No. None of that. None of that. We don't.
- [39:56]
Logan Murdoch
No. You could. You could get a little. Little. Little Nick's propaganda in the group chats is all I'm saying. That's. That's all I will say. But you, Roger Bell, have been really. I don't know. You're. You say you're not a fan, but, like, we'll see you in the group chats, you know, putting gifts that say, let's go, Nicks, is all I'm saying.
- [40:15]
Raja Bell
Did I have one that said let's go, Knicks in there?
- [40:17]
Logan Murdoch
Yeah, you kind of. Yeah, you were like.
- [40:19]
Raja Bell
I mean, that's more congratulatory for a. For. For a friend who's a huge Knicks fan. Like, that's. That's more right. Like, I mean, that's not. That's not necessarily me being, like.
- [40:29]
Logan Murdoch
Right.
- [40:29]
Raja Bell
Let's go, Nicks. That's more like paying homage to, like, yo, bro, you guys did it. Congrats, dude.
- [40:33]
Cliff
This is.
- [40:34]
Raja Bell
Hey, man.
- [40:35]
Logan Murdoch
Okay, let's talk about the series. And I promise my prediction will not be predicated on the fact that New York is great in June. And then I may or may not want to really. But let's talk to the series.
- [40:48]
Raja Bell
Can we do that? Can I. Would. Can we take. Can we. Your bosses. Listen. Can we go to New York in June? Can we go to New York?
- [40:55]
Logan Murdoch
I want to go to New York.
- [40:56]
Raja Bell
Can we take the show to, like, a finals game? Can we do that? Ben. Ben's not on here. Who makes that call? Howard's already there.
- [41:04]
Logan Murdoch
Howard's already. Connor. Connor Nevins. We're out here saying names. Connor Nevins. Let's make it happen. Connor. My boy. My boy. Real ones. New York was popping. Okay. We got to get to the series, though. We actually have to get to the series and talk through it. Halliburton, Jalen Brunson, Mikel Bridges, Carl Towns, Pascal Siakam. I'm saying all these names. You're saying names very badly. I'm saying names because it's very much of a balanced series, and it matches up very well. Like, what gives in this series? Is the first question, Roger. Like, I don't. I just do not know. I'll start there.
- [41:47]
Raja Bell
Yeah, I don't know either. This is a. This is. It's a tough one. I mean, this is a fantastic two Eastern and Western Conference finals, like, matchup. These are two series where I could tell you. I really don't know. Like, I don't. I don't know. I think there's a little bit more of a juxtaposition of styles in the Eastern Conference than there is in the Western Conference. Like, you know, they look like each other kind of over there in the Western Conference, like, in the Eastern Conference. I think a lot of it's going to be predicated on pace of play and what style of game we get into. You know, if we're out. Bro. If we're out on the highway, flying up and down like, you know, this is. This. This is where Indiana wants to live.
- [42:25]
Logan Murdoch
This is where they play on i95.
- [42:28]
Raja Bell
Right now, if we're rolling, you know what I mean? If we're stuck in, if we're stuck in Miami or New York traffic, like I95 traffic, you know, at 4 in the afternoon and it's bumper to bumper and we're like, you know, trying to boguard and get in and switch lanes. That's the Knick style. So like a lot of it's going to be played, a lot of it's going to be, you know, predicated on what style of game we get.
- [42:51]
Logan Murdoch
I really like that. That transition was great.
- [42:54]
Raja Bell
Thank you. Thank you.
- [42:55]
Cliff
I appreciate it.
- [42:55]
Logan Murdoch
You say you're driving on the west side Highway. Did you went right to 185i 95 talk about the Knicks? I was like, oh, yeah, yeah.
- [43:02]
Raja Bell
I mean, I mean, listen, sometimes you.
- [43:04]
Logan Murdoch
Do your thing, man. You could be a writer one of these days. You could do it. You could do it. I think you could do it. Right. Profile. 5,000 word profile for RAH Rah. All right, let's just go down the line. What do we think about Carl Towns in this series? Right? Because on the one hand, he's been cooking the Pacers throughout the regular season. He's a great matchup for him, right? They just play him one on one. He gets to his spots, he makes his shots. Bong, bong, bing, we're here. But in this series he's going to be tested. He might get, he might get double teamed. But also on the defensive end, he's going to get targeted. Now, he's gotten targeted in previous series. Tatum tried him for the most part, probably to the detriment of the offense. But I think the Pacers tend to target guys more within the flow of the offense with their pick and roll. Right. When Halliburton is playing point guard with the step backs or going to the cup, the pick and pop that he has with with Miles Turner. Where do you see Towns in the series and what does he need to do defensively in order to mitigate all the things that I just said that the, that we have just said with the Pacers offense?
- [44:14]
Raja Bell
What does he need to. I mean, he needs to be solid defensively. He needs the. Yeah, I mean, I don't, I don't know technically what he needs to do, but he's got to be a solid defensive player. You know, he's going to have to keep the ball in front of him, you know, not, not be the, the breakdown consistently at the point of attack. You know, they could switch all they want if you're giving up that, that, that shot that Jason Tatum wind up wound up taking a lot, which is that contested three, because you've done a good job out there in space. Like, teams can live with that as, as. As a defensive unit if that's what you're giving up on the switch. But if we're going to keep getting, like, blown by and now our defense has to collapse all the time, that's when we get in a tough spot. Over the course of time, you know, I. Look, he's, you know, if I'm the Pacers, you know, Ryan was asking me this before, like, what. What do I do with Karl Anthony Towns? And, And I said, like, I don't know that I'm doubling right. Right away. I want to see if he shows up. And this is not a knock. This isn't a knock. I don't mean it to be one.
- [45:17]
Logan Murdoch
It's approved.
- [45:17]
Raja Bell
But, like, but I want. Yeah, I want to see that and try to devise a game plan for Brunson and try to put that fire out as much as I can. And, and then if Cat should keep showing up, and then, you know, we'll adjust. But, but yeah, again, this is not unlike the other series in that you kind of know what Brunson is going to do. Even if, like, the Celtics did a good job on him over the course of a series, he's still imprinted on those games late and, and was the deciding factor in a lot of them. That's what he's going to do. So the question is, can. Can Cat, like, supplement offensively and be a true number two?
- [45:53]
Logan Murdoch
The, The. The. You just kind of alluded to it, and it was. The reason why I don't have a feel for this series is because players on both teams, Halliburton and, And. And Brunson are two guys that just lay in the weeds until the final minutes in terms of scoring. Right. And they can just go off. You don't want the game close if you're playing against the Pacers because of Halliburton's. Right. He could be the scariest man on the planet. And then if you're playing against the Knicks, same deal with Brunson. You don't want to keep the game close because you know what he's going to do with it. I just don't know what gives with those two scenarios on the table. Raja.
- [46:29]
Raja Bell
Oh, I don't know either. I mean, that Brunson. Brunson is one of the best closers in the game, and I would put Tyrese Halliburton in, In the conversation with. With him. And I do think that Halliburton has that. It kind of factor in his mind. You know, sometimes. Sometimes you have to have that type of delusional belief in what you can do in those moments. It's, it's. And that allows you to just do that over and over again. I mean, it sounds corny, but like, sometimes you just gotta feel like, you know, who, you know who else had that is like. Robert Horry.
- [47:08]
Logan Murdoch
Yeah. Like.
- [47:10]
Raja Bell
Like just, you know, it's not delusional in that you're not a great player, but it's like in those moments I'm even better. And so, you know, he's.
- [47:18]
Logan Murdoch
There was this dude that I, that I used. I used to skip class in high school to go to. To go to PE class. And I'm not going to say the dude's name, but he would suck all game long. He had a shot. Like, I'm glad we have video now because I can show. He had a shot like this. Right? We'll just throw that, right? Miss everything. But when that was like six to five and we're going to eight. Cash. Yeah, Cash. I'm walking out. Hate that.
- [47:50]
Raja Bell
That guy had the.
- [47:50]
Logan Murdoch
I just triggered that moment.
- [47:52]
Raja Bell
Yeah, he had the. You said he had the Larry Bird.
- [47:56]
Logan Murdoch
No, no, it wasn't. It went to his back. His like mid back. But yeah, somebody like this.
- [48:02]
Raja Bell
Look, say what you want, man. Some people just have that clutch, that clutch gene. They have that clutch mental space that they can tap into that, that, that just opens up another level of belief, you know what I mean? And both of those guys have it. So, you know, if these games are crunch time games, if these games are two, three pointers with three minutes to go, I mean, I think we get a fantastic Eastern Conference.
- [48:26]
Logan Murdoch
I don't know. Which one do you think? Who do you. Who do you trust more in that, in that moment? Right. Like offensively down. I mean, it's you right now. It's very marginal.
- [48:34]
Raja Bell
It is. It's a fractional thing. But I'm going to go Brunson, because of his variety of shot making, like his variety of. Of ways to create a shot and score.
- [48:47]
Logan Murdoch
He so confidently throws up bullshit and it goes in.
- [48:50]
Raja Bell
Yeah, that's not bullshit, though. That's not bullshit.
- [48:53]
Logan Murdoch
I meant that affectionately, by the way.
- [48:54]
Raja Bell
No, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know.
- [48:57]
Logan Murdoch
Because yeah, if you're a defender, you're probably saying that's. It's not Going in it goes. There was a play. Roger, real quick. I remember game four of the. The first round against the Lakers in 2006, when everybody talks about the shot and I'm sorry to trigger, you guys won the series, so you don't give a fuck. But everybody talks about the shot at game four, where he hits the shot at the. At the free throw line.
- [49:20]
Raja Bell
Who's this?
- [49:21]
Logan Murdoch
The harder shot. Kobe.
- [49:22]
Raja Bell
Oh, Kobe.
- [49:24]
Logan Murdoch
When Kobe hit the shot at the free throw line at the buzzer. But the harder shot was when Smush got the steal and passed it to Kobe. And he did that, like, shake shook shot and threw it to the sky and it went in.
- [49:35]
Raja Bell
That was like the Euro did. He euro. He Euroed around me.
- [49:37]
Logan Murdoch
I think it was something. It was a great move. But, like, you guys defended that still very well. And he threw it at the sky and it went in. I know y' all was like, this is some bullshit. That was a bullshit shot. That's how I feel like when I say that people say that Brunson throws a bullshit shot, or I think it's because, like, it's great and he knows it's going in, but you guys are like, no fucking way. And, ah, it goes in.
- [50:00]
Raja Bell
Oh, great. Yeah. Great. Players will make stuff like that look very routine. And. And yeah, man.
- [50:06]
Logan Murdoch
Like, did you think that Kobe shot was bullshit when he threw it to the sky, that it was going to go in?
- [50:12]
Raja Bell
No, in the moment, man, that stuff was happening so fast. Like, you just in disbelief that. That we turned it over and then was that. I'm trying to remember. Was that the one where Steve was like, out of bounds? And I don't remember that so clearly anymore. But that one. The one that was. I was in disbelief was when he. We made the pull up. That was the one around the free throw where, like, I was there, Boris was there.
- [50:34]
Logan Murdoch
You know, we can shut it over, like, seven dudes.
- [50:36]
Raja Bell
Yeah. They're like, shit, man, that's tough.
- [50:40]
Logan Murdoch
I did not mean to trigger. That was just the first thing that came.
- [50:41]
Raja Bell
No, I'm not triggered. We won the series. Like, I'm not triggered.
- [50:45]
Logan Murdoch
Okay. All right. What all that the.
- [50:47]
Raja Bell
No, I'm just joking.
- [50:49]
Logan Murdoch
What did you say the other day, bro? The Spurs. That was so funny. Keith, clip that. Send that to the group chat. Oh, my goodness. But no, we just go on our tangents. That was hilarious. Okay, let's get back to the series really quickly. This seems like a Pascal Siakam series waiting to happen. Seems like there's something there. What do you like it seems like he is a guy obviously. Like he is a guy that people know to be great in within the league. Draymond just talked about how that his first matchup against Randall was like only like one of two matches where in the last few years where he feel like he lost his matchup in a playoff series and the other was Pascal Seaco, the 2019, the finals. He seems like a guy in a big moment that can will them. That's why there's so many of these types of guys within. Because I talk about Pascal Siaka, but then I'm thinking about Mikhail Bridges over here, right? And that X factor and this X factor. This X factor. Who's the X factorist of factors right now?
- [51:59]
Raja Bell
I don't know. I don't know. But look, the better way for me to answer this is whoever gets the more consistent output from their number two is going to be in a really good position to win this series. So it's.
- [52:17]
Logan Murdoch
And the number two fluctuate on the Knicks, though, right? Like, because the number two could be Mikhail Bridges on a given night too, as well, right?
- [52:23]
Raja Bell
It could be Mikhail Bridges for sure, but I think it's Karl Anthony Towns. So if you're telling me we're going to. We're going to pencil Carl into the Towns and he's going to rotate with Mikhail Bridges, fine. But whoever gets, whoever gets the more consistent play. But this isn't, this isn't anything new. I'm just repeating like. Like this is. This is just what it is at this point, right? Who's going to show up? Who can we count on to show up? And from, you know, that's when I'm, you know, when I'm talking about my team, when I'm talking about defending the other team. The question is, who can we take out of the equation? How can we get them out, right? And whoever's able to execute those little wars, you know, within. Or battles within the war, I guess, is going to be the team that has the better chance of winning that.
- [53:09]
Logan Murdoch
All right, I want to save room for some Philly taco. Let's get to the predictions right now.
- [53:19]
Raja Bell
I'll go first.
- [53:22]
Logan Murdoch
Nixon, seven.
- [53:23]
Raja Bell
All right, you went first. I will go. I'm also going. I'm gonna. I, I went back and forth. I went back and forth. At first I was all Nicks. Like I sent it in the group chat, right? And then if I'm being, if I'm being honest, over the weekend, I was convincing myself that the prospect for a.
- [53:43]
Logan Murdoch
Live show in Indianapolis Huh? No prospect for a live show in Indianapolis, buddy.
- [53:50]
Raja Bell
No, I mean, listen, I love maybe.
- [53:51]
Logan Murdoch
A reservation at St. Elmos, but.
- [53:53]
Raja Bell
Yeah, I don't know. They got. Yeah, I'm. I'm. They got a White Castle that I used to. I used to pop out. I love White Castle.
- [53:59]
Logan Murdoch
I used to pop out.
- [54:00]
Raja Bell
I used to pop out. Like, I grabbed. Like, I grabbed, like.
- [54:05]
Logan Murdoch
Remember we had the proximity. Remember we had the proximity conversation pre pod? We don't have to get fully into it. Remember that conversation we had pre pod?
- [54:11]
Raja Bell
The what?
- [54:12]
Logan Murdoch
Over the proximity. The proximity.
- [54:15]
Raja Bell
Yeah. Yeah.
- [54:15]
Logan Murdoch
Conversation we just had. Your proximity was. Was really close when you were in the White Castle. You're very, very close. Proximity as a. Yeah, I had wondered.
- [54:24]
Raja Bell
I had wondered. I had wondered. Yeah, but. But what was that? Yeah, so I had convinced myself of Indy being able to, like, tempo them out of the series, but then I came back and I. And I settled on the Knicks. And I will say the Knicks in six would mean they'd have to win. I'll say the Knicks in seven.
- [54:45]
Logan Murdoch
Okay. All right. Cliff, my guy, who do you have? What are your. First off? Tell the people your picks for the conference finals and then let's have some quick Philly talk.
- [54:58]
Cliff
I like the Pacers to keep the pace up. I like the Pacers at 6. This is no hate towards the Knicks. This is just how I feel. People might think I'm a hater cause I'm from Philly and all that, and, you know, it's some type of cousin rivalry, but I'm going to keep it to be with you. I really think the Patriots are going to win in six. And I like the Thunder. I picked the Thunder to win the finals before the season, so I like the Thunder or the Thunder to go to the finals before the season. So I like the Thunder to win. And six. I think the Thunder will beat the Wolves in six.
- [55:28]
Logan Murdoch
That's fair. Before we get to Philly talk, Raja him talking about pace. I'm bringing up pace for the Pacers. Really had. I've been meaning to ask you this question. How does pace just counteract? Just. And I'm just asking this from a standpoint of, you know, seven seconds or less. How does pace actually help your defense? Even if your defense is middle of the pack, how does this running dude. Yeah. If you're just running guys out of the. Out of the. Off the. Off the court, how does that help a fledgling defense or just your defense in general? Like, if you have a good one too, and you can get back, like, how does that help the pace?
- [56:06]
Raja Bell
I think. Look, the only argument I'd make for pace helping your defense is, you know, I've always argued that it's easier to, it's easier to entice a slow team to try to play fast with you than it is to entice a fast playing team to play slow with the team that plays slow. So by that I mean like my defense as the, as the team that likes to play with pace, those usually aren't like the best analytical defenses in the world. But by the nature of you trying to play fast with me, you're not playing on your normal rhythm, which, which is beneficial to me. Right. So, like, that would be the best way I could describe that. Right. If I get you into running with me, it's not the pace you normally want to play at. You're not going to be, you know, as good offensively, at least in my estimation. And that is a win for my defense.
- [57:00]
Logan Murdoch
Okay, we'll see how that plays out. Do you, in that series, do you think that that is a, something that can be used against the Knicks who have, I mean, they don't have necessarily great defenders, but they do have a pretty good defense in this context. In terms of physicality.
- [57:18]
Raja Bell
Yeah. Well, well, as it relates to the Knicks defense, me playing fast like it, that, that is, that is to negate their ability to like, sit down, be big, be physical, put their paws on me, beat me up, grind, grind the game out in the way that they want to. You know, at least the Thibodeau teams historically want to play you defensively out, physical, you just, you know, beat you up and stuff like that. And so my pace as an offense is to negate that. That's why I said this game is, this series is about pace. For me, that's going to be about who controls it, how many games are played at each team's desired pace. It will dictate in large degree how this series plays out. If you get a bunch of games in Indiana's wheelhouse, then I give them the advantage. If, if New York is able to kind of grab them, be physical, slow the game down, punish, then I'd give Knicks the edge. But this series, but, but, but the playoffs have been played more in the Knicks wheelhouse in terms of physicality with the whistle and whatnot. And so I, I, you know, I lean towards the Knicks being able to control it a little bit more.
- [58:27]
Logan Murdoch
All right, Cliff, man. So I don't know if you saw this, Raja, but. No, this is something that we need to talk about podcast, P has returned to the airwaves with Gilly the Kid. And it was a. I haven't watched the whole interview yet, but I did watch just the first 10 minutes, and it was great. Gilly just talking and crashing out just about Philly sports. Just look like a normal, just Philly guy just saying, you know, how much he with Temple, how he fucks with all Philly teams, and how he doesn't give A, Philly play, fans don't give a fuck about the Olympics, and B, needs to get in gear. He's the greatest player on earth when he actually decides to play basketball. There's a lot going on here. I just want to ask Cliff, the resident Philly guy right now, what did this interview do? How. With how you feel about Paul George right now? Like, do you. Did it make you feel better about him as a Philly? It. Do you care whatsoever? What was Gilly's performance like? I just want to just let.
- [59:25]
Cliff
What was.
- [59:26]
Logan Murdoch
What did this interview mean to you?
- [59:27]
Cliff
First and foremost, shout out to Gilly. Shout out to Wallow. They've been doing great things around the city, helping people out, helping small businesses out. They two of the best in the city, and they just.
- [59:35]
Logan Murdoch
They.
- [59:35]
Cliff
They do it for the youngest, too. So shout out to Gillian Wallow. Man, I think I come out of that seeing that Gilly finally gave Paul George, like, the true Philly fan treatment. He finally. We needed somebody that wasn't part of his crew, part of his group, part of his entourage to let him know, like, yo, we really give a shit about basketball and all of our sports here. Logan, you sent me the clip how Gilly said, I'm an Eagles fan. I'm a Flyers fan. I'm a Sixers fan. I'm a Temple Drexel villain.
- [60:02]
Logan Murdoch
I'm a soul fan.
- [60:04]
Cliff
I'm a soul. The soul hasn't existed for, like, a decade. So that tells you how. That tells you how much Gilley truly loves the city and how much sports fans really love Philadelphia. So I think Paul George just kind of got a shot in the arm there where he was like, oh, yo. Like, this is. Like, this ain't the Clippers. Like, this is for real here. This is an east coast city. As you know, we got a pod on here called East Coast Bias. We go hard for our teams. We ride out for our teams.
- [60:29]
Logan Murdoch
And the sixth, really special, baby.
- [60:31]
Cliff
Philly. Shout out to Philly. Special. Shout out to my guy, Shield. We gonna be on there later tonight. But, yeah, like, I think Paul George just Knows like, yo, these people care. They not trying to hear none of the bullshit. They're not trying to hear about no injuries. They're not trying to hear, oh, I had, by the way, all valid excuses. He did have some pretty bad injuries going into the season or not going into the season he got during the preseason. But yeah, I think he understands what it is now. I think he knows like, yo, I can't mess around here because they gonna give me hell if I don't.
- [60:58]
Logan Murdoch
You know, I said, I said this Cliff last year, last summer when he went to Philly, that he probably underestimated just like how much they're going to hold him accountable.
- [61:07]
Cliff
Yeah.
- [61:08]
Logan Murdoch
And it really came to bear. There's a thing called the Philly wake up call. Raja has played in Philly. He knows what it is. But I am curious to know, Raja, what was your Philly wake up call? When did you know this shit was serious?
- [61:23]
Raja Bell
I got thrown right into the, right into the fire though, man. Like, they, they, they were basically in the playoffs. They were the number one seed when I got there. So it happened to me pretty quickly. I mean, let's see, bro. I think, I think probably when the, when the Game 7 of the Eastern Conference finals, if I didn't know at that point and we, we pulled up to the, to the, to the, to the arena and like the was already packed, Mofos was already out there, like at a football game, kind of tailgating.
- [62:01]
Logan Murdoch
Did you see a young light skinned kid with like a beard and like a, he might have been 7? I have a beer and he had maybe a little flat top just through the gates.
- [62:09]
Raja Bell
Like, yeah, the Rocky theme was Blair. And then after that game, like, I didn't know what role I'd play in that game. But like after that game, what, what, what my, like next month in Philly turned into was probably my, my introduction to that. Like, I've shared stories. Like they'd be, I'd come out of the arena and they'd be shaking my car. I'm like, you're gonna tip over my Escalade. Like, this is crazy. I go to King of Prussia Mall and I, I, I've I've always been able to, I've always been able to walk in a mall and not like with whatever or whoever. It's not a problem anywhere, any team I've ever been on, but I'd go into King of Prussia and the whole mall descended on my family. And I like, it was, that's when I was like, oh, yeah, this is Different. This is a different animal.
- [62:51]
Logan Murdoch
Every time we talk Philly talk, the smile on Cliff's face just gets wider and wider. Like, I wish we had some of the pre pod talk because y' all was talking about getting street wear. Blowing.
- [63:03]
Cliff
City Blue. Shout out to City Blue.
- [63:05]
Raja Bell
Shout out to City Blue.
- [63:05]
Logan Murdoch
City Blue. Okay. All right, all right. You say it. Yeah. Who was. Who was the vet again that. That held you down in City Blue because AI couldn't go because he's Michael Jackson. He was.
- [63:14]
Raja Bell
No, I had a lot of vets that held me. I had a lot of vets. Von Tego. Von Tego Cummings. Not too much older than me, but he was a vet. He'd already been in the league. He'd take us down there before we really had enough to. To. To get our own. I mean, who else did I say? Derek Cole. Derek Coleman used to take us and. And. And look out for us. Shout out to Deke. It wasn't City Blue, but Dikembe Mutombo used to hold us down East. No, George Lynch. These dudes weren't really taking us shopping, but, like, they'd have you in their. In their crib for holidays and stuff like that. Like Aaron McKee. There was a lot of good vets on that team.
- [63:45]
Logan Murdoch
Oh, man. Oh, goodness. Cliff, how you feeling right now, dog? Like, this Philly proposition.
- [63:50]
Raja Bell
T. Hill. Tyrone Hill. I gotta give a shout out to T. Hill. He used to let me roll with him, like, as a. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No doubt. Matt Kiger.
- [63:57]
Cliff
Like, Roger was talking about my childhood, man.
- [63:59]
Logan Murdoch
Like, what's it like, though, to be the dude, though? Cliff, what's it like to be the dude in Philly, bro? How do they like. Because this is back to what Paul George is like. He wants to be the dude so bad.
- [64:10]
Cliff
It's a lot of pressure that comes with that. Raja knows firsthand. It's a lot of pressure that comes with that.
- [64:14]
Logan Murdoch
He does not.
- [64:14]
Raja Bell
I was never known.
- [64:15]
Cliff
No, no, no, no. I'm speaking from. From looking at it. From.
- [64:19]
Raja Bell
From AI.
- [64:20]
Cliff
From being an AI teammate, bro. AI got so much hell, but he's complete. He's revered. He's in Philly lore forever. He might be our favorite athlete ever in Philadelphia history, but he got so much hell during the time that he played in Philly. From the papers to the new hell. My mom even used to tell me, like, yo, don't look up to my momma say, bro. She hated everything about Allen Iverson. She hated, like, the way he dressed, his braids like the rapper shit. Like, she didn't like none of that. You know, my mom super Catholic though, Haitian lady. So she wasn't for none of the all the street shit. So basically, like, she didn't like the embodiment of what AI was. But AI was just a hard worker. And that's why he's revered in Philadelphia history forever. Like AI stamped forever. He doesn't have to pay for anything ever in Philadelphia. And if he does, the person that makes him pay should be arrested. Like, that's how much AI is loved in Philadelphia. I'm dead serious. So basically what comes with that is, is you had to embrace the city. You kind of have to take on the culture of what the city is. It's blue collar. Like Gilly said, people's houses is next to each other. If your baby moms is arguing with her, man, you going to hear that two doors down, you know what I'm saying? Like, it's that serious out there. It's a blue collar town. Like, you just got to be with it. You got to just fall in line with how the Philly logic is, whether it's illogical or not. That's how we are. We just ride for our towns.
- [65:34]
Logan Murdoch
That's why. Is that why Gilly said that, um, that Embiid is the greatest player in the league right now? He's the best player in the league.
- [65:40]
Raja Bell
Well, Gilly.
- [65:40]
Cliff
Gilly's basketball takes be a little bit off. So I'll. I'm not exact. His basketball takes don't be the greatest. But I mean, look, Embiid, when he plays, he is a top, you know, five, six, seven player in the NBA. It's just whenever he decides to play, we never know that. So, you know, we don't know what's up with the surgery. You don't know if he's going to come back healthy or not. No one's sure of his even whereabouts right now. But if Embiid does come back, I. The expectation is going to be even crazier now because last season you had the third best odds coming into the season to be in the finals. Now you got the third overall pick. You feel me? Like, that's night and day. So the expectations for Embiid are as high as it's ever been. He got to come back in shape. He has to come back healthy, and he has to come back and drop 25 and 15 every night like he's supposed to. That's the expectation, bare minimum.
- [66:29]
Logan Murdoch
So it's a good start to have Wallow and Gilly on the podcast coming back, right? But what does PG have to do to be like a top 156er of all time?
- [66:42]
Cliff
I mean, score, score 20 points, give us about seven, eight rebounds a night. Be productive, be efficient. No complaining. We don't want to hear anything about my injuries. This something that, like, that's the. And here's the problem with me that I kind of disconnect from Philadelphia fans. Like, I understand injuries can really be like detrimental to a player's health, right? The player's performance. I get it. I totally get it. But no one's trying to hear that. Everybody's just trying to say, like, yo, you don't want to hear about no injuries. None of that. You better get out there. For instance, Cam Juergens was, is a, is the Eagles center. He was listed as out during the game, the NFC championship game, and ended up playing in that game. And people were like, oh, damn, look at Cam. And he got a big extension now. He's revered in Philadelphia, Lord, because obviously part of a Super bowl winning championship team, you know, so like, it's just, it's stuff like that. Like the toughness has to come out of you. So people just want to see that toughness in pg. They don't want to hear none of the, none of the soft stuff, none of the injury complaints, none of that. Plus you making 50 plus million dollars a year. You better come out and drop 20 plus a game. That's minimum. That's bare minimum for PG.
- [67:48]
Logan Murdoch
There ain't no half stepping on Real Ones, ladies and gentlemen. And that has been another edition of Real Ones. That has been Tuesday Vibes. Shout Out Cliff. Shout Out Victoria. Shout Out Raja. We got Friday vibes. Going to be a great show. Can't wait for it. Real ones mailbag gmail.com real onesmailback gmail.com real ones mailbag gmail.com tap in with us. We will see you guys on Friday. Me, Raja, Howard, mother fucking Beck. Raja, you better show up because I can't have a cold ass outro like this and you not be there. All right, see you guys Friday. Love you. Bye. Must you 21 years and older and present in select states for Kansas and affiliation with Kansas Star Casino for 18 and older and present in D.C. gambling problem. Call 1-800- GAMBLER or visit rghelp.com call 1-888-789-7777 or visit CCPG. Org chattinconeticut or visit mdgamblinghelp. Org in Maryland, Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema. Org or call 1-800-327-5050.