D (3:03)

Ladies and gentlemen, this episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Without Internet, you wouldn't be able to hear my beautiful voice right now. And businesses wouldn't be able to stay connected the way they need. What if I told you that business owners can get free business Internet advantage forever? When you add four or more mobile lines, Spectrum Business keeps you connected seamlessly with Internet, advanced wi, fi, phone, TV and mobile services all in packages tailored to your business budget. No contracts, no added fees. All you have to do to find out how you can get free Spectrum Business Internet forever@spectrum.com free for life. That's where you go. Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. This episode is brought to you by 20th Century Studios. Send help from the twisted mind of Sam Raimi, director of the Evil Dead and Drag Me to hell, starring Rachel McAdams and Dylan O'. Brien. I like both of them. Comes a new film that begs the question, what would you do if you were stuck on an island with your terrible Boss in paradise? HR can't hear you scream. Only in theaters in 3D January 30th. Get tickets now.

A (4:12)

Let's get to the awards. Let's get right to it. So Raj is fresh off a plane. Howard is about to get on a plane. So I don't know how this episode is necessarily going to go, but for all the viewers out there, the new viewers, this is how we roll, man. So this is the first category that we have set up for the mid season awards. Maybe it should be the last one, but I think we're gonna go. We're gonna go first. Who is. I'm gonna start with Howard here. Who is your mid season MVP of the NBA?

C (4:45)

We're starting with the heavy. The heavy hardware right off the top. This is a really interesting one, right, because Wemby missed a bunch of games. Jokic is currently out at the moment, is going to miss a lot more games to come too, but we got to judge them on the totality of the first half of the season. I think there are eight guys you could consider on a five man ballot, but we are just going MVP of the first half. We are not doing ballots or fake ballots or anything else. And I think it's Shea Gilders Alexander, pretty Clearly, right now, you can't overthink this. He's been absolutely dominant, just as dominant as he was last season. He's averaging 32 points, four and a half rebounds, six and a half assists, shooting almost 40% on threes and almost 60% on twos.

B (5:26)

Super efficient.

C (5:27)

Yeah, super efficient. And he's played 38 games out of 40, so he's only missed two games. So he's played more than most of the other guys that you might want to consider. But, you know, Yic, Don, others, Wemby. But also, like, even if the Thunder have, like, slipped a little lately, and they have, they're still on pace for 68 wins. And that's despite missing Jalen Williams for 19 games, Chet for six, Dort for nine. Hartenstein's missed six, Caruso's missed a dozen games. Like, Shai is the constant. Shea is their engine. Shea is dominant. He plays both ends. And he's just done the most, I think, to substantiate his case over the first 40 games.

A (6:06)

Yeah, that's a good call. That's a good call. What do you think, Roger? Do you think, Are you. Yeah, I mean, I, I mean, who was your pick?

B (6:12)

I mean, I think, I think this one's pretty easy, right? I mean, if we, if we had a healthy Jokic and Denver was keeping pace the, you know, the way we expected him to when he was healthy. If you had had, if you had had more Wemby, to the point you made early when you picked Wemby, Logan, strong case to be made there. I, I just think it's really. Luke, I mean, sorry, SGA right now. And I agree with Howard for all those reasons. I mean, I, when I was going through the numbers a little bit, just trying to. He's just so efficient. I would have never guessed that he was playing at that efficiency level with the volume that he scores the ball. I just didn't see that. I'm kind of blown away by it. You know, I make a case for a lot of guys. I, I, I really like Kate Cunningham's case for it. You know, he's a guy that I would look at, but given the fact that that OKC is doing what they're doing again at 33 and 7 on pace to, to, to have another remarkable year as a team in general, and, and he leads that for sure. I, I, I go with SGA.

A (7:07)

I mean, SGA's case is pretty, it's pretty tight at this point, you know, especially, like, what he's been able to do, like you mentioned the injuries, but to do this also without. Without Jada, who was. Was supposed to come into this season as being a solidified number two. And they didn't really have that throughout the first part of the season. And then you watch their games to start the season, it was very much SGA centric. And that's sometimes a really hard thing. We talk about ball heavy guards and we talk about Trey, we talk about Ant. And for him to be able to not only, you know, keep the ship going, but push them to historic heights in okc, that's been really, really impressive. I want to just put out another name real quick just for the sake of. Because I knew somebody was going to pick sga. I knew probably both of you guys were. But there's another name that I think we should just at least document in the season awards. It may not be mvp, but it is mvp. I put him into this category. But Jaylen Brown. I think Jaylen Brown has to be. He's definitely in the conversation of it. He might not. He doesn't have the record necessarily. But we do have the surprise of the Boston Celtics this season and what they've been able to accomplish. And a lot of that has to do with him. Right. Like they have. His second option is what Anthony Simons at this point, and no knock to Anthony Simons, but that is a.

C (8:26)

Quite fairly, I think.

A (8:28)

But okay. Okay. That's a supporting cast there. I apologize.

C (8:33)

Derek White ahead of Anthony Simons. I'm just saying for the rest of the.

A (8:36)

All right. They get mad at me for cutting y' all off. And then here you go, Howard. But just a little cross correction. But then you talk about. But then you talk about just what those Celtics have been able to do. And he's been the face of it. I think that he should be getting his flowers, too. I don't think he necessarily will get the MVP because it's. It's record. It's MVP is a. Is. Can be a Vibes Award award. I know that Howard tends to roll his eyes at that, but I firmly believe that it can be a narrative award. And I just don't think that he would have all of the things put in place to necessarily get that award this season based on what OKC has done and based on a lot of other factors. But I do think Jaylen Brown, when we think about this season, when we look back on this season, it looks like he's putting together a. A campaign that is MVP worthy. Yeah.

C (9:27)

Go Rush.

B (9:28)

My bad, Howard. I just hold your thought Realistically, I, I agree with that. I had him. I also had Jalen Brunson in the mix. If we were going to be, you know, if we're talking about, you know, people that could be hovering around, you know, give or take an injury here or there, chips fall their way. Yeah, he was in the mix. Luca was in the mix. There were a few people in the mix. I, I don't know who. Where do you, where would you draw the line? I guess Howard, of the names that we, you know, Wemby, Luca, Nicola, Shea, Cade, Jalen. Jalen. You go on anybody after that.

C (10:01)

Did you mention Anthony Edwards? He's the only other one I really even consider.

B (10:04)

That's the borderline. Right?

C (10:05)

Yeah. And yeah, and like I said, I think I said off the top, there was like eight candidates and if this were the typical, it's the end of the season, we've got a five man ballot to fill out and you're trying to figure it out and yeah, probably it's like Shay and Yic at the top again. If Giannis doesn't miss too many games, he'll, he may get back into this conversation. I didn't consider him really for this exercise because of all the games missed and because the Bucks record is horrendous. But that's the group in some order. And yeah, some of the, there, there are tears here, right? Like Shay and Yic are kind of the, the, the go away top tier and then everybody else is just chasing for the lower spots on the ballot. But I'm glad Logan mentioned Jaylen Brown and I apologize for cutting you off, my friend. I, I, I just, you know, even.

A (10:47)

Though you were right.

C (10:47)

But it's fine, that's the important thing. No, like Jaylen Brown, if like people have all these different constructs for how to, and, and it's fine. I have the beholder for how you define mvp. There are some people who define it as kind of like, well, if you took player X off of team Y or the, the guy whose like team depends on him the most. Jaylen Brown has the like almost the strongest case for the if, if the exercise was who won with the least amount of help around them. All due respect to Derek White and Anthony Simons and everybody but like dude, dude, the drop off Derek White and Peyton Pritchard are your returning guys from their, their, you know, their title team. You've got Anthony Simons imported as just like a kind of a cap placeholder and he's become really important. Nemius, Keita, Luke, Luca, Garza like they've just got, they've just got random dudes. Like all due respect to the random dudes, but like outside of they've got a deep guard core, but the front court is just a bunch of guys and that they have won at the rate that they have. Huge testament to Jaylen Brown. Also to Joe Missoula, who we may name check again later. But yeah, I think Jaylen Brown has a really strong case based on just how far he has taken them with, with his production and his leadership. And I don't think most of us saw that coming in the absence of Jason Tatum this year.

A (12:07)

I think that Jalen and Shea at this point just are two sides of the coin when it comes to what you think about with mvp. Right. Like Shay is. Has the dominant numbers but also has the, you know, based on record at this point, dominant team. And then you have the other side of Jalen who kind of tracks is like 0506 Kobe, right. We're scoring a lot of points and his team is kind of overachieving because of his performance. And I think another thing that we need to point out is the elephant in the room, which we get in, which we have to before we get away from an MVP discussion is a 65 game rule. Right. Because I think that that is the thing that is kind of you put Jalen is not to say Jalen isn't a MVP candidate, he absolutely is. But when you take out the Jokic's and you take out the potential of Wimby, right. He missed a lot of games. But when you take that out, you don't really get a full sample size of what you should be picking. Because if they are in the mix and are legitimate candidates based on the games that they played, I'm picking. I'm probably going to pick Jogic, to be honest with you, or I'm probably. And it's either going to be Yogic or Shay. But the fact that we're robbed of that is, is it rears his ugly head when we have to do awards season or this type of exercise. I just want to point that out.

C (13:23)

Yeah. And we've, we've covered that on this pod a couple of times I think in recent weeks after Jokic went down about just what a shame it is that. And it's not just about Jokic. And by the way, I know we should never like worry about clapping back at the people who clapped back at us in like the comments on Instagram.

B (13:37)

We were getting clapped at, but people.

C (13:39)

Who are like, oh you guys didn't say the 65 game rule was a problem with Embiid and like, stop, folks. I personally, I was against the 65 game rule from the time it was invoked. I don't like it for a variety of reasons which we have covered on this pod, folks. Go back, listen to the back catalog. You can hear me rant about it from a couple weeks ago. It's not about Jokic. It's also, for this season, not even just about Jokic. It's about Jokic and potentially Wemby and potentially Giannis, where you have multiple guys who are perennial MVP candidates who may all get knocked out by the 65 game rule. And it's going to put us in a position where, look, Shay may just claim it outright anyway and it'll be fine, but the ballot is going to look a little warped based on guys just being eliminated by rule. And I just think that's a shame. We don't need to get back into it again. But people on IG go back, listen to the whole presentation because this is not just about Jokic.

A (14:29)

Look at us going at our ops this morning on Netflix. Anyways.

B (14:33)

Well, I know we had ops like that out here, Howard. Thank you.

C (14:36)

I'm just trying to look out for the integrity and rep of our. Of our show. You know, it's.

A (14:43)

Yeah, all right, let's. I'm just going randomly on this thing on this list. This is one of my. One of my favorite ones that I have that we have that we picked out yesterday in the pre POD meeting. Let's go. League pass player of the year so far. Who was your league pass player of the year? Raja Bell.

B (15:02)

Player of the year when you send it. Player slash team.

A (15:06)

Yeah.

B (15:07)

Yeah. It's a tough one because, like, you could go with, you know, I like to watch a certain style of basketball and, you know, some of the. Like when Denver's humming, I like to watch the way they play. Right. I like the way the ball moves. I like to watch that style. I love watching Golden State and how that orchestration of an offense works when it's firing on all cylinders. Like, that's cool for me to watch too, you know, But I chose to go with it's two, if you would forgive me. Right? I went with two teams and two players that I enjoy watching. Both of their teams are bad, but within the bad stuff, like, you could see some very wild and cool stuff. If you're like a basketball fan, one would be the Brooklyn Nets And Michael Porter Jr. Some of the. Some of the shot selection, tough shot making, barrages of scoring that he goes on is. Is pretty cool to watch. The other would be Charlotte.

A (16:06)

I knew you were gonna pick Charlotte.

B (16:08)

Be Charlotte, right? Because of Lamelo and Con Canel and, and. And the other, you know, the other players that they have, they're young, they get up and down, and you could just see some wild stuff. Like the shot he hit against OKC the other night. Like, you could see some stuff that you normally don't see in NBA games. So for me, it'd be those two teams and probably those three players.

A (16:27)

That's awesome. I knew you were gonna. I knew you were gonna pick Charlotte. And they are hilarious. They're fun to watch, right? Like you said, like the ending against Philly earlier this season, right? The random win against OKC. Like, yeah, LaMelo sitting off of one.

C (16:42)

Foot while falling out of bounds and over.

B (16:44)

Who knows?

C (16:45)

And just like doing like trick shots.

A (16:47)

Hey, hey, Roger. New year, new me. Same me, though.

B (16:55)

Yeah, no doubt, no doubt. Now. Now, forgive me for anyone tuning. Like, I know they're bad teams and I love good basketball, but when I. When you're talking about league pass, right, like, typically my night, you know, I will. I will be really busy, and then I'm going to catch whatever game I really need to watch. That's like a good quality basketball game in the morning when I'm not like, fried and I got these fresh brain cells to watch the game and really see what's going on in it. So if I'm sitting there on the couch looking at league pass, I want to see some cool shit. Like, I'm probably going to tune in to see. I want to see the wildest thing I could potentially see at a basketball game. That's where I'm going.

A (17:32)

Hey, man, if you fried, you want to watch the Charlotte Hornets, that's. That's kind of what you want to do. That's.

C (17:39)

No, the Hornets have, like, made that move from team that you might cringe at just how wild they are with the ball and the kind of stuff they try to pull, especially Lamello to actually being like, oh, they're actually kind of fun and entertaining now. Like, I, I get there's a whole part of the audience that always thought they were fun and entertaining and think that I'm just being a cranky old man, which I am. But, like, the Hornets are actually competitive now. Like, they're winning some good games and they're. They're a more complete lineup now that Miller is healthy and con canipple has been outstanding as a rookie in that lineup. And, you know, between those guys, Miles Bridges and Lamelo, like, you've got some semblance of talent there where they're still a little wild and they're not attentive defensively all the time, and you never know where it's going to go. But that's kind of part of the fun of watching them. So if you don't care about, you know, like, Raja was alluding to, like, kind of like the beautiful game basketball of, like, Denver or Golden State. That ain't Charlotte. That's fine.

A (18:34)

It's a different kind of beauty.

C (18:36)

It's a different kind of beauty that can still be fun. So I'm with you on that one. You know what? Victor Wembanyama is going to probably be the answer to this question for me, just forever, for a very long time here. So my. My. My main answer here is Wemby, because he is the guy in the league right now who most often. First of all, I don't want to miss a second when the spurs are on when he's playing, but he's gonna be the one who most often makes me, like, either hop up off the couch or yelp or whoop or just make strange noises as I go, oh, what the fuck was like. He's the guy who's just, like, exploding your brain and making you just go like, oh. All the time. And so, like, we're, you know, like, I'm startling, like, my wife and daughter and the cats and stuff, like, what is going on in the other room? It's Wemby, and it's just the things he can do at his size and the amount of floor he can cover and block a shot at the perimeter and at the basket on the same possession within, like, 1.2 seconds, everything he does. That all said. Logan, you mind if I throw a second one here? It's a little bit of a curveball.

A (19:43)

Let's do it.

C (19:45)

Let's do it. My real league pass hero the first half, and especially right now, because we're about to miss him for a while. It's Bill Kennedy. Yes. Everybody's America's favorite referee, Bill Kennedy.

A (19:57)

Wow.

C (19:58)

No, listen, so the league happens into this replay thing in the bubble, right? Oh, we gotta explain to the fans at home what's going on now. Referee's gonna speak directly into the camera. Explain what the call was, explain what the replay was, explain the overturn or whatever. The coaches challenge and everybody, like, some of them are, like, nervous and they're uptight there. Some of them are just very, very by the book, by the rule. They're just literally stating the rule book that they've memorized. And then Bill's kind of coming in, like, looking at you with the puppy dog eyes, like, hi, America, I'm going to explain some officiating to you. And then he's going to do these timely pauses and everything. It's to the point where, like, fans and broadcasters are actually calling it out, like, oh, guys, we've got Bill Kennedy on the game tonight. Can't wait. I hope we get a lot of coaches challenges. And there was a time when the. When the NBA was trying to get away from, like, the old Joey Crawford, Dick Bavetta, where we're big personalities ourselves in the game. They want all the referees to almost be like, you know, no personality are all interchangeable automatons. Bill Kennedy fucking just breaks all of that. He's thrashed it all. And he's so good at it, and he's so much fun. I don't think the league even has the heart to try to tamp it down. So if he's hammered it up a little bit, it's just fun. If you can make an officiating review fun to make it must see tv. You've accomplished something. So anyway, Bill strained his hamstring the other day. That was the report from Chris Haynes afterward. He's out indefinitely. I don't know if we'll see him again this season. But get well, Bill Kennedy. Hold your hand, wait to see you back.

A (21:24)

That's great. That's great. Also, man, make. I want referees with big personalities, bro. This is. At the end of the day, this is entertainment, dog. You know? Like, hell yeah.

B (21:32)

No, you don't. I don't.

A (21:34)

I don't. Okay. I'm sorry. Okay.

C (21:36)

The former player.

B (21:37)

Let's be clear.

A (21:38)

Okay. Okay. All right.

C (21:39)

You were not a Joey Crawford fan.

B (21:41)

Yeah. Check that person. I love Joe. No, actually, weirdly, you think I wouldn't be a Joey fan, but Joey and I were really good. Yeah, no, look, I. I shouldn't have said that. Personalities are fine as long as you understand that.

A (21:54)

Like, you meant that you are a.

B (21:56)

Part of a. I do. Because some of them will forget, given, you know, the. The allowance of the personality, that. That this is a show that they are a part of and not their show.

A (22:07)

Right. And so. Right.

B (22:08)

So, like, do you mind the personality?

C (22:10)

Do you mind it if they're hamming up a little bit for the. Or. Or at least not hamming up?

A (22:13)

No.

C (22:13)

Having A little bit of fun with the replay camera. Is that cool or is that detract?

B (22:18)

Nope, I think that's. I think it's great. And honestly, the personality is far less deterrent to what you're trying to do as a player than. Than the stiff. I have no personality and I can't communicate with you type of ref. Right. Like, they become very difficult to work around or work with as a player. Like, a guy with a personality tends to have communication because he wants to be in the show and. And that guy, usually you can kind.

C (22:42)

Of work with and not for.

A (22:43)

Tony Brothers.

C (22:44)

He also happens to be one of the best officials in the league and, you know, does the finals every year because he consistently rates as one of the best. So he came back. Yeah.

A (22:52)

Yeah. Tony Brothers is one of those guys that'll give you some shit on the court after.

B (22:57)

Yeah, Tony Brothers. I. I don't know.

C (23:00)

All.

B (23:00)

Johnny Goble was good. Shoot most A lot of the guys that I was. That I was. Zach, Zach, Zach, Zach. Zarba was kind of young when I was leaving. Yeah, those guys are good.

C (23:11)

How were you with Steve, Javi.

B (23:14)

Javi and I had our moments, but. But are ultimately good. We're Facebook friends now, but, like, text me a few times.

C (23:24)

He's. He's actually a really good dude. Like. Like, Javi and Joey Crawford were notorious in their era, Right. Because those are the guys with the quick triggers. Going to throw guys out, coaches, players, whatever. But off the court, like great dudes.

B (23:34)

Yeah.

A (23:35)

That's awesome. Okay, I'm going to go a little random on my. It's going to be a player. League pass player that I've just fallen in love with this season. It's going to be so random. Jock Lawndale.

C (23:48)

I see that coming.

A (23:49)

I have fallen. It's a league pass player of the year, Right? It's your league pass player of the year. But Jack Londale, every time I turn on league pass and I watch the Grizzlies, I'm like, who the fuck is that? How is he balling? Right. It started earlier in the season against Minnesota, and he randomly. I'm checking the stats. He had 20 and 10, 30 minutes. He was 8 or 15 from the field. And it was one of those things where I was just like, oh, he's killing. Who's this cooking? It's linedale. Oh, shit. Right? But you know the first time you be hating and you'd be like, how you let. How you let Jack Lindell ball out, right? And then I'm looking, then I See him against the Nuggets against Jokic. He's fucking balling against them. I'm like, oh, he outscored Jokic in a game. Then he goes out and then plays against Wimby. Balls out. He had 19 and nine. Against Wimy, he had 26. And you know, he had. He outscored. Hold on. He outscored Jokic because he had 26 and 10 in November. This dude is a real deal. Holyfield. Okay, ladies and gentlemen, if you guys are sad about what's going on with Ja right now, go watch Jaques L ball out against your. Who is supposed to be a superior center. Go watch him ball out against the other center. Okay? It's fun. It's. It's great. When you're washing dishes after you put someone to. Put the little homie to sleep, go watch some Jock Londale highlights. That's all I say. It's going to make you happy. All right? That's what made me happy.

C (25:09)

You think. You think that's going to keep Grizzlies fans happy after they've traded John Morant? Like, Jock Lawndale going to be their, like, their. Their consolation prize there.

A (25:18)

Their.

C (25:18)

Their, like, little security blanket. I. I don't. It may be a stretch.

A (25:22)

Maybe a stretch. But I'm just saying, hey, you know, there's light at the end of the tunnel.

B (25:27)

No babies. No babies about that. Let's. Let's stop.

A (25:30)

Whatever. He's brought me joy.

B (25:31)

We're on Netflix. We're not. We're not. We're not lying to people. No.

A (25:36)

He's my favorite. Okay. That's all it is to say. We don't.

C (25:39)

We just got moved on.

A (25:40)

Favorite league. Pass. Play. All right, all right, all right.

D (25:46)

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D (26:59)

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A (27:28)

All right, all right, all right. This is the next make sure you guys choose carefully on this next category because our producer Cliff has a vested interest in this category. This is Rookie of the Year, ladies and gentlemen. I'm going to go first on this one. I'm going to go Vijay Edgecombe mostly because I want to discuss it. Right. I think that he is in the 0304 Carmelo category where you know, he's playing for a good team. So that might overshadow the, the impact that he is making. But dude is just balling right now, right? Like he's part, he's, he's made himself a part of, of the big four in Philadelphia. He has in the clutch been amazing. He hits 58.8% of his three point shots in the clutch, which is second in the NBA in the category according to NBA.com. he's obviously very, very energetic. He's Raj's of Raj's ilk and I enjoy watching him play like I enjoy watching he makes. He is made the Sixers very fun to watch in the beginning of the season along with Tyrese Maxey's and others. And he makes sure the future is bright in Philadelphia. So I'm going to go with Vijay Edgecombe. I don't know. I don't think he's going to win it necessarily just for the factors that I laid out in the beginning. But I think that he is very much in the conversation and in my opinion should win.

C (28:54)

It should. That's strong. Very strong. I like it.

A (28:59)

He contributed to winning.

B (29:02)

Well, that would be his. That, I mean that's his case, right. Is like he is, he's doing. We all agree it's a three headed race right now. Like we got three main.

A (29:11)

Yeah, probably him. Knipple. Yeah, yeah.

B (29:16)

Howard. Right.

C (29:16)

So I think so. I mean look, there's, there's still room for like Cedric Coward or Dylan Harper. Other guys, I think to maybe squeeze into this depending on the second half of the season. But like yeah, go go Roger. But I, yes, I think it's probably a two to three man race at the moment.

A (29:34)

Yeah.

B (29:34)

I mean so there's not. I mean for me his case is like he's electrifying by the way. And, and given the platform of maybe coup or, or Khan to a lesser degree, maybe producing even more than he's producing right now. I don't even think that's a. Maybe like given more opportunity he'd be, he'd be going crazy. And his highlights are. He is, he is definitely rookie of the year in terms of highlight production type of plays for me. Dunks. But I think the, the, the rookie of the year for me is Cooper Flag. And I personally have said this before, I'll just say it again. I, you know we were having those debates and those arguments about how do you structure a team. What's going to be safe for him as a, as a first year player. Like how are we going to maximize his growth in year one? Where did, where does Dallas go after that? You know I always said that his game was one that I thought might produce, you know, or contribute to winning really, really early. But I didn't know at the top end. Give him the ball, put a saddle on his back and ride him to victories as a primary scorer what his top end level in that category would be. I think he's continued to, to prove to me that like we are getting or we will get to that point with him. He is going to be a very, very high end, number one scoring the ball and I think this is gonna sound crazy. I don't know why I'm doing this because I usually don't do it. He reminds me of a Scottie Pippen type of talent but without MJ in his, in his, in his way of growth, if that makes sense.

A (31:06)

Right. Like so Scotty stayed in Seattle when he got drafted basically or something like that.

B (31:11)

Yeah. But like you know when Scotty, when, when MJ left for those couple years, Scotty, you got to see that Scotty could carry. Right. Like Scotty had a whole lot of stuff that he sat to the side because he had MJ and Coop reminds me a lot of that He's a Swiss army knife in terms of size, length, what he can do with that size and length offensively in terms of like handling the ball, creating and facilitating scoring. And so I, I mean, statistically scoring the ball, he's, he's number one in the race. The platform is right for him in the absence of everybody else there in Dallas. But I, I think he's the Rookie of the Year and I'm just, you know, I think I really, I didn't miss because I knew he was going to be a great player, but what he could potentially be, I, I think I, I was a little short on that on an eval. If, if, if that, if that's fair.

A (31:56)

Sure, sure. I do still wonder like, how it would be though. Like, if, if Cooper played for the Sixers and was in a situation where he just slotted right in and could just do what he wants to do. Like if him and Edgecomb switch teams, that would be just a fascinating switch. Sorry about that, Howard. I.

C (32:14)

No, no, not all. But this is, this is why I love, this is why I love this particular Rookie of the Year race right now. Because the case for these guys is going to be very different. It is right now and it probably still will be in a few months. Right. Like, VJ Edgecomb, among all the rookies who are worth noting, is the one who's doing it for a team that matters. Like, the Sixers matter again. Like, they're really good and he's a really big part of that. Although, shout out to Colin Murray Boyles in Toronto. Like, he's been playing an increased role there. And I don't know if he's going to end up in the Rookie of the Year discussion. But like, those are the two rookies who are doing a lot for teams that are actually going to make the playoffs or that are near the top of the standings. Whereas Cooper, he's, you know, he's going to make his mistakes. He's going to, you know, and he's. And he has. It's been a wild ride for him so far. Dudes keep going down. Kyrie may or may not come back at some point. There's been a lot of responsibility put in Cooper Flag's hands because he's on a Dallas team that's just racked with injuries, missing high end talent. Somebody's got to do everything and it's on his shoulders. So he's going to be a little less efficient. The warts are going to be a little bit more glaring. Whereas VJ Gets a playoff of Maxi and when everybody's there, play off of Paul George and Joel Embiid and and a bunch of vets. So he's got like a little bit more room to kind of just do the things he does best and not have to carry it. All right, Yeah. I will just say though, and this was not to be different. This is actually on my doc that I wrote down. We're going all going different directions here. I had Con Knippel by a hair over Cooper. Flag like Flag is getting a lot of benefit of the doubt by being the guy who came in as the number one pick and a shit ton of hype around him and the expectations are super high and I think he's largely lived up to that. But it's funny because statistically they're neck and neck. They literally have the same scoring average as we record this 19.1 points per game. Flag is leading in assists 4.3 to 3.6. Not a massive difference. Flag is leading in rebound 6.4 to 5.1. Cooper's got like a half more blocks and steals per game and he gets to the line more. But Concan nipple is shooting 43% from three and making three and a half a game. Not a strength of Cooper Flags game. He's shooting 29% making just one per game. Two point percentage. Conquer nipples. Got got a little bit of a lead there too. And true shooting Khan is just like lapping the field on true shooting percentage. So there's a case for him and he's a really big part of what we were just talking about a few minutes ago about why the Charlotte Hornets are now like a league pass darling. Because like, and it's not just his scoring or his shooting. Like I think everybody fixates on the shooting but like he's, he's actually a very good passer. He's been a great secondary playmaker for them. And yeah, the Hornets and the Mavs about the same record right now too. So like if people are going to judge it based on record, which I don't think we should in Rookie of the Year, that's going to drag down his case a little. But I think on production and efficiency and just the role he's playing, the amount of just his usage rate, the fact that the Hornets actually need him, he's a really important part of what they're accomplishing right now. And I think this is a true two to three man race. And again like Dylan Harper has been outstanding when he's played. He missed a bunch of games. He's playing a lesser role because they got a really crowded backcourt in San Antonio. But like, I. I think other guys are going to be in this conversation before it's over.

A (35:31)

All right, let's have some fun with this really quickly. We had to get to this category. Crash out of the year, ladies and gentlemen, which I'm very excited to do this. I'm going to go first out of fear that somebody else is going to take this pick. I'm going with Jeremiah Fears of the New Orleans Pelicans. And this is in a very positive light. He has. This is the list of players that he has gone at, whether he has had a light skirmish or a yelling match. This is all in his rookie season. Jimmy Butler, Dillon Brooks, although that was a little light. Luka Doncic and PJ Washington and Rui Hachimura. I think that was all in the same game. He. And on top of that, he. He's a really good basketball player. And we talk a lot of stuff about what New Orleans did in the draft and what Dumars did in the draft, but he got two good players in Derrick Queen and Jeremiah Fears. Jeremiah is averaging 14 points, three rebounds, three assists on 44% from the field. Talk about league pass. New Orleans is like, kind of. They're very disappointing, but because of Jeremiah Fierce, kind of a league pass team, I don't know what he's going to do. Also, funny thing, and it's kind of cheating because the player that I'm about to reference is probably, like, named after this award, but Draymond Green called Jeremiah Fierce one of his fire starters of the month, which is a hell of an endorsement. And so I got to go with Jeremiah Fierce. I wanted to get. Get that name out of the way. I didn't know if you guys are going to take it or not, but that's my pick for Crash out of the year so far. And all positive vibes because he's a great player and I love that he sticks up for himself and his teammates. And you're not afraid of shit. So share my fears.

C (37:27)

Love it.

B (37:28)

Yeah, well, yeah, I mean, I'm always pulling for somebody that's got a little backbone, especially when you're young as a player. You got to stand up for yourself, bro. Like, I mean, I know there's a place like so called Place when you're a rook and you're not supposed to get the calls that everybody else gets and stuff like that, but we're all lacing them up the same way, bro. So, like, don't don't try me like that.

A (37:50)

It.

B (37:51)

This is a. I mean, you could. For me, it's a hard one. You're going to fall back on the usual suspects, the Dylan Brooks of it all with, with, you know what he does on the. You've seen like the viral stuff of him, like walking into free throw line lanes early on LeBron and, and just trying to get under people's skin and then they hate on Steph Curry. You know, he does his things. But ultimately I think I'm going with Draymond storming out of the arena mid, mid, mid, like timeout. Just, just leaving. We covered that and I want to just be fair again. I said if that's a tactic that he uses when he finds himself at that boiling point and he's been instructed to just remove himself from the situation that I understand it, it's still a wild and crazy look that I've never seen before. And for that reason, it's the only place I could go in terms of crash out of the year. And it's good. It's going to be Draymond Green.

C (38:43)

Totally fair. Logan's dying over there, I think.

B (38:47)

Logan.

C (38:48)

Logan, do you need a minute? Are you going to be okay?

A (38:50)

It was just too easy. But yes, we kind of. Yeah, it was easy.

B (38:54)

Yeah, it's ridiculous. But I mean, again, I've seen, I.

A (38:58)

Ever seen wait for him to have this. Hold on. I just want to say, just like it's very impressive for Draymond on this season to have a crash out of the year because this is a kind of a light season for him. Like the 23, 24 season was. Was like an all timer. We weren't doing this mid season awards back then, but this kind of. I don't know. I want to, I want to ask say one more thing before we get to Howard. The Dylan Brooks of it all. It's becoming kind of endearing, I'm not gonna lie. Like, him, him slapping like LeBron's hand and like going to the free throw line and him kind of like doing his act. It's kind of funny now. Like, it's kind of. It's just, it's kind of. I've changed how I felt about it. I'm sorry.

C (39:35)

Yeah, he's in the Lance Stevenson zone, right?

A (39:38)

Yeah.

C (39:38)

Like, oh, look, he's blowing in LeBron's ear. I don't know what the hell that's all about, but fuck, why not?

A (39:43)

Sure. Do it.

C (39:46)

I had to go with our guy. I had to go with our guy. Jj Redick I think I called this out at the time. But if we're talking crash outs ever, J.J. redick, like almost every post game is a therapy session and he's just, everything is I. We can't play any defense. Our guys, like, nobody's doing, doing the right thing. They can't follow schemes or whatever. Like, he's talking about like the, the quote from a couple weeks ago that we flagged at the time. Like, I'm not doing another 53 games like this. As if it sounds like he's ready to just like walk away. I don't think that's what he was implying. I think it was more like, we have to fix this so that I don't have to witness this for 53 more games. But I love how raw and honest JJ Redick is, especially as a young head coach in this league where most young head coaches. Guys, there's been a lot of first year head coaches. In the last, like 10 years or so, we've had like a real turnover and a lot of guys coming through the G League or from overseas or from the film room or whatever. And by when they get in that chair, there's this huge weight on this huge responsibility. This league now more than ever, always has been, but now more than ever about the superstars. So a lot of these coaches play it so close to the vest. They don't want to step on anybody, they don't want to upset their players, they don't want to upset anybody. So they just talk X's and O's and leave it at that. And they're very dry and very reserved and JJ's just like, I don't give a fuck. I got luka, I got LeBron, I got like vets, like, I don't care. I'm just saying it. I'm going to tell it like it is every time. And I appreciate, as a media person, of course I appreciate that candor. And maybe it's partially because jj, post career for himself, was a media guy for a little bit and just can't help himself. He's going to be honest, but he's also very thoughtful. And I think he does this in a targeted, measured way. But within that, he is being more candid, I think, than 99% of head coaches right now. So I'm not going to say keep crashing out jj, because if I say that, that means they're still struggling. I'm not wishing that on him or anybody else. But keep being you. We appreciate the, the candor.

A (41:52)

I can't. I Don't. I don't ever understand. Like, I don't know if they're winning or they're losing after every press conference. I seriously have no idea. Like, they lost last night. They didn't play great against Sack last night. And he was, he was just the same as if they win by 20. Like, he was talking about or missing shots. Yeah, that was. That was going to lead to. My question to you though, Roz. Like, how much is he going to. How much can they do this before the. The Lakers tune him out? Because I do think that that is in play here.

B (42:20)

Yeah, it's a good question, Logan, because I was going to follow up with. With what Howard was saying, which is like, that's entertaining. But there's only so many times you can get up at the podium the.

A (42:31)

Same college on this.

B (42:33)

Yeah, man. Like, there's only so much that that message can be beaten into people via the media and press conference before people are like, yo, this is some bullshit, bro.

A (42:42)

We're not. He's calling out Dalton for not knowing a playbook and stuff. Like, he's so. He's just wild. Everything that's on his mind is coming out in the post. Post games.

B (42:52)

Yeah. And. And I guess, like, you know, as players, I've never played for a guy that. That would be as that candid in the media about. About individual players. Lack of. You fill in the blank, right? In a locker room we all know who doesn't know the place. Does that make sense? Like, we know that and we will say in the locker room, yo, Logan, get your shit together, bro. Like, we. Hey, man, when we run this dude like you're. You keep screwing it up and we can't get this bucket because you're not doing your job. We police that. Clearly. JJ with his playing background, you know, that's the way you would comport yourself. But as a coach, it's a little different. It's a little different to use the vehicle of the media. And I haven't had anyone do it to me. And so I can't speak to how long you have doing that before it becomes an issue, but it just feels like there's a shelf life on being able to do that with guys before there start to be some ramifications from the player side. Not that he cares. It just feels like that to me. I did want to kind of. I give like an honorable mention on the crash out because you mentioned you were talking about Jeremiah Fears and the. And the. And the New Orleans Pelicans.

A (44:06)

Yes.

B (44:07)

H. The Jose Alvarado of it all. With who. Who did he get into it with? It was like our only fight, like, real fight. Punches were thrown in that, right?

C (44:14)

Oh, yeah, that was just like last week.

A (44:16)

Yeah, you're right.

C (44:18)

That was somebody who was, I think, twice his size, too.

A (44:20)

Against Mark Williams.

B (44:21)

Yes, Mark Williams. There you go. So, like, yeah, gotta. I mean, that's gotta be in there, right?

A (44:26)

Also, Jose Alvarado is one of my favorite players to watch, just in general, because of that notion, because he can ball out, but also, like, he doesn't take shit. And he's also an antagonist. It's. It's perfect theater. There's a lot of great characters on the New Orleans Pelicans at this point. Some we're going to describe and some we just don't really have to talk about. But. Moving on. You talked about your reference to Coach Howard. I want to go to coach of the year. Who is your coach of the year?

C (45:01)

So long list of possibilities here, as it usually is. You can usually, like, give it to, like, a third of the league, either guys who are doing an outstanding job on a great team or just guys who just surprised the hell out of us all. And this is both. It is Joe Mazzulla, who we referenced earlier, and I picked him, like, narrowly over Jordan Ottoman of the Suns. But, like, the fact that the Celtics, as recently as a couple of days ago, were in second place in the Eastern Conference. I know this is, you know, east is wide open year and all that stuff, and the Knicks were struggling, and that was part of it, too. But, like, this was supposed to be a gap year. This was supposed to be, oh, hey, let's spin off a bunch of our veterans who helped us win a title so we can take a step back and maybe we'll get a. We'll get a lottery pick as a recent champion, and then welcome Tatum back, and we'll still have our core, plus, like, a top five, top eight player or something. And they're not doing any of that. They're like, fuck the draft. We don't give a shit. Like, Jalen Brown's just out there. Derrick White, Pritchard, like, they're holding it down. You watch the Celtics, and it still looks and feels like the Celtics. And that is a huge credit to those players, but also to Missoula, like, who he's, like, the most. No nonsense. Like, all this shit is the most serious thing in the world, right? Joe Missoula coaches, like, world peace is at stake and. And he's consistent as hell. Like, this Shit is serious to him. He's not fucking around. And there are no gap years. There are no gap quarters, no gap minutes. Every minute of every game feels like life or death. I'm not sure that's great overall work, life balance, anybody, but it is helping me.

A (46:35)

He's in the NBA. There is no work life balance.

C (46:38)

Some. Some coaches better than others at this. I'm going to guess he's at the bad end of the spectrum on the balance there. But they are playing their butts off. They're consistent. They're, you know, per usual, they're taking like 43 threes a game, which is just like a slight bit behind the warriors for. For the most in the league. But this is a team that not only is down Jason Tatum, but again, let Drew Holiday, Kristaps Porzingis, Al Horford, Cornett all go in the off season. They have just a bunch of dudes in the front court, and they're getting by. They're more than getting by. They're winning a lot of games to the point where we're all now sitting here in January going, huh? If Tatum comes back, these guys can actually make a run at the east in a year. That was supposed to come back.

A (47:24)

Don't. Don't come back, bro. It's not worth it.

B (47:25)

Don't come back.

A (47:26)

Really not worth it, dude.

B (47:27)

Just saying.

C (47:28)

It's in the. It's in the ether anyway.

A (47:30)

Hey.

B (47:30)

Hey.

A (47:31)

We. We told OKC not to go for the record, and guess what, Raja, we were right. So listen to us.

B (47:37)

Yeah, my bad, My bad. Howard, I didn't mean to interrupt you.

C (47:42)

I just go.

B (47:45)

Yeah, I don't know. I'm with you. I think. I think it's Joe Missoula. I had. I had a very short list, of Which, I mean, J.B. bickerstaff, I just think has done. He's done a really good job, but I think. I think I will go with Jordan Otto. I very much like the Celtics, but for.

A (48:05)

For.

B (48:06)

Who knew what they were going to look like? Like, they felt kind of like a. You know, I always talk about that, like, roadmap, like, how are we going to get from where we are now? And the vision and. And talk to me like, detail and lay out for me how we're getting to where we're trying to go. And I didn't see the clear picture for the sun, so I didn't know what my expectations were for them this year. But, you know, they've exceeded it. They far exceeded it defensively. They're really really solid. Dylan Brooks obviously in the step that he's taken offensively to, to help. To help Debuk has been, has been huge. Grayson Gillespie like that. I, I like what they're doing and I think you have to give him a ton of credit for taking I mean, what were we saying about the Suns coming into the year?

A (48:53)

I A lot of things that, you know, their front office isn't very smart right now because they just traded for all these picks is going to be it. I don't even know if there's going to be a gap year. We feel sorry for playing Devin at best.

C (49:05)

Yeah. And playing at best. Right.

A (49:07)

Yeah.

B (49:08)

Yeah. And so I mean it's I with you. I actually I, I, I lean. If you hadn't picked Missoula, I probably lean there just because of where they are in the east, but I think I, you know, since you did and I was splitting hairs anyway, I'm going to go with Jordan Otto.

A (49:24)

That's a good pick. I was going to pick Joe Missoula as well, just for the simple fact that, you know, he is a guy that kind of gets a victim of the Celtics success in that he is a coach of a very, very talented team that is supposed to be doing big things that he inherited. Right. And the things that come along with that are, oh, I mean, this is just a players championship. Oh, this is, they're going. Because he has great players. He has, you know, they, they put a roster, he better do good with that. But I think this is the a year where he's actually proving what a lot of people I think around the NBA world knew already, but that he is a really good coach and a very smart coach with the X's and O's. But also the players tend to really like him. Right. I mean, we see the dry sense of humor and the hilarity that comes with that, but his players really ride for him and he gets the best out of that and I'm glad to see that for him. I just want to just since we're. He's my pick, but I just want to put somebody else out there. JB Bickerstaff doing a great job right now, and I think that he is one of those guys that for a long time has and he has another guy to prove that has a lot to prove. But he has been a guy that has seemed to have ceilings on his teams and I think that he's breaking through that ceiling right now with the job that he's doing. So J.B. bickerstaff would be somebody else that we should, we should look out.

C (50:45)

Totally agree. I had him actually at the top of my actual coach of the year ballot last season. And just for the rest, just for the sake of naming him, the other guys who I think are just worth noting, like Darko Riakovic and then the job he's doing with Toronto, another team we didn't expect to be here. Nick Nurse managing like this, this weird. We're, we're, we're a maxi Edgecomb team. But we've got, you know, Embiid and Paul George here still, and we've got a lot of guys hurting in and out of the lineup. Mark Dagnolt, obviously, just doing the usual great job with the Thunder. Mitch Johnson in San Antonio, David Adelman with Denver, and then we mentioned Ott. So, like, I think all those guys, I think are going to be in the mix. When we're, when we're talking in another couple of months.

A (51:26)

We have breaking news. Oh. Oh, this is from Shams. I think this has big ramifications. Dallas Mavericks. Anthony Davis is likely to undergo surgery to repair a ligament damage in his left hand and will miss several months. His Dallas season is essentially over, given the prognosis and where the Mavs are going as a franchise. I think this has huge ramifications because a lot of people were trying to trade for Anthony Davis and also the injuries have reared their ugly hand again. I, this is just, this is just pretty tough all around. I feel for Anthony Davis and just the season that he has had just with injuries, not, not just this one, but what he's had throughout the season. And this changes a lot of plans for people in the trade market. That's a minimal thing to how I feel about how it, how it feels to see Anthony Davis go through this. But Anthony, Dave is out for the season. Thoughts?

C (52:24)

There's a follow up tweet from Shams, by the way, that says that the Mavericks are having renewed Davis trade talks with multiple interested teams. So despite the injury, I guess teams might want to grab him for next season, huh? Interesting.

A (52:40)

It's a fascinating development.

C (52:42)

Howard Beck, I will say it clarifies Dallas's season. They've been kind of straddling this line where we're like, we're not a tanking team. We're trying to compete. Kyrie might come back. We have Anthony Davis, we got P.J. washington, we got. But like, Derek Lively's out. Gafford and Washington keep getting hurt. Now Anthony Davis has been in and out of the lineup. It's now gone for the rest of the season. Like, this clarifies things. This is the last year that they control their pick for quite a while. They sh. I hate to endorse this, but they.

B (53:09)

Should be going Lose for booze.

C (53:16)

Hashtag.

B (53:17)

That's it, man.

C (53:19)

Are you. Are you boozer over Debance and Peterson?

B (53:21)

Losers for boozers. No, I mean, it could be the. I just think the band coupe look very, very. They look duplicative. Yeah, like a little bit. But I mean, I, you know, I'd have to go through the process, but so naturally, I think, like, booze works with him a little bit better. Put the two dookies on the floor together and just build culturally from stuff that, you know.

A (53:48)

Lose for booze with Kyrie.

B (53:50)

Yeah, that's crazy. Lose for booze.

A (53:52)

Losers for boozers. Losers for boozers. Boo. Boo for juju.

C (53:58)

It is their wisest path now. And for that matter, you know, don't let Kyrie come back. Just play for next season. Like, just do not, like, there's no point. Like, let Cooper just take his lumps. Play for the lottery balls. That's it, man. Like, the Mavericks need something else. Like, Cooper flag was a godsend for them for them to jump from 11th to winning the lottery.

B (54:19)

Take.

C (54:19)

Get them in the first place after their disastrous, disastrous Luca trade. But to the extent that you are going to have a future with all these picks gone and everything else, and who knows what Anthony Davis's future is there or elsewhere, like, play for the lottery balls now.

B (54:32)

Hey, not that we could have predicted this when it happened, right? So, like, this is just. It's just, you know, but if. If someone had told you when the Luca trade happened, let's. We all can agree that the way it went down and what you got for him and how it was, how it was negotiated was not the right way to handle that. But if you had said, you know, Luca with who he is as a player, you're going to move that wind up with Cooper Flag and the number one or two pick in this year's draft. Does that make it. That makes it a little bit more palatable? No. Would you have. Would, like. If you could have predicted that up front, would that have worked for you? I'm just asking.

A (55:10)

We'll see.

B (55:11)

Like, you couldn't at the time, so it was ridiculous. But, like, if. If you could have. If somebody was saying, hey, you're gonna get. You're gonna get Coop, and then you're gonna get one or two the following.

C (55:19)

Year, I think Mavs fans Would still be pretty apoplectic. Reasonably.

A (55:26)

Yeah. What was that? What was that? What was that saying again, Roger, about.

B (55:30)

Lose for booze, bro? We out here. I'm about to go print that.

A (55:40)

Oh, my God.

B (55:41)

I'm texting his mom and dad, like, in a minute. Hey, man, hashtag that. Let's get that.

A (55:45)

Let's go. Let's. Let's go in on a trademark. Yeah, let's go on a trademark.

C (55:49)

I'm sure Carlos would love that.

A (55:52)

Hold that. No, I think this is a clarifying move. Like, I agree with everything you guys say with this, right? I think that the thing that was just tough this season and I felt for Cooper Flag, and I've said this all season, is because there wasn't a clear path. It was really hard for him to fit into a goal. Right? Because, you know, I'm trying to develop, but I'm also trying to develop within the structure of a team that says they want to compete. Right. Do we think that they were going to compete preseason? Probably not, but that is the expectations of everyone involved. I do wonder, though, like, with this clarifying injury, what that means for everybody else, right? Like, if I'm Kyrie Otto, don't come back. Like, don't come back this season. There's no real reason to do it. But also, it's very clear that everybody is. Is. Is trying to rally around Cooper Flack. What does that mean for Kyrie this offseason? What does that mean for Jason Kidd, who is a coach that presumably wants to coach for titles? And you have to have a different infrastructure if you're competing for titles versus if you're developing to get to be a team that is competing for titles. And the Mavericks have to figure that part, the rest of that out. But I think, you know, the decision has kind of been made for them. I don't know what they get for. Especially now. It's wild that that tweet came out from Shams because I don't know what you get for an injured Anthony Davis that is just injured for the rest of the season, who is always chronically injured. Like, I just don't know what the market is for that. He's a good player, a great player when he's fully healthy and engaged and in shape, but I just don't know. I just don't know where that is.

B (57:28)

Going to, like, line up at the same time.

A (57:30)

It lined up in 2020, and that was. That was very fun to watch, but, I mean, it hasn't really lined up since. So, yeah, I'm sorry. I just made Raja very sad. Okay.

B (57:42)

No, no, no, no. I mean, listen, I'm on record. I think Anthony Davis is. Is a really, really good player. But that's a lot of stuff to have to line up.

A (57:49)

That's if if was a fifth, was a jit, was a death, was a. Ah, you know, that's basically Raja watching the Charlotte Hornets the whole fifth. All right, man, we're a little off the rails here, but that's what you're gonna get on Netflix when you watch real ones. What a great first episode. Ladies and gentlemen, Raja Bell, Howard Beck. We on Netflix and we ain't changing. Yeah, that's all I got to say. Me and Raja next on on Friday. Make sure you tap in with us realwoodsmailbackmail.com realwellback@gmail.com realwinds mailbag and gmail.com we will do our first mailbag of the new era next week. Sorry we had a little time crunch. We couldn't really get to it with the mid season awards. And now a breaking news story. That's what you get here. We will see you, me and Raja, I believe, on Friday. Tap in all the shits. Excited for this journey. Talk soon.

C (58:48)

Bye.