NBA Season Preview Pod! Are the Rockets Ready to Win the West? | Real Ones

Summary

The Ringer NBA Show – “NBA Season Preview Pod! Are the Rockets Ready to Win the West?” | Real Ones

Date: October 18, 2025
Hosts: Logan Murdock, Raja Bell, Howard Beck, Cliff (producer), Victoria (video)
Key Theme: In-depth preview and analysis of the upcoming NBA season, focusing on team expectations, sleepers, and the biggest storylines, with a special spotlight on the Houston Rockets’ prospects post-offseason.

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Main Theme:

This episode dives deep into the major questions of the 2025-26 NBA season. The Real Ones crew debates top contenders in both conferences, considers which teams are poised to surprise, and scrutinizes the Houston Rockets’ chances after a flashy offseason and key injuries. The episode sets the tone for the year by blending sharp basketball insight with trademark banter.

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Key Discussion Points & Highlights

1. Season Preview / Roundtable Banter

• The crew reunites, welcomes back Logan, and jokes about technical difficulties and the upcoming move to Netflix video podcasting.
• [02:55] Netflix Move: Howard breaks the news: The Ringer NBA Show will be on Netflix for video, moving away from YouTube.
  • Notable Quote: “The world is not ready for us in 4K Ultra HD. Certainly not ready for me in 4K. Please, listeners...do not put me on your, like, fucking 60 inch flat screen TV.” – Howard [03:31]

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2. Who Will Be the Best Team in the Eastern Conference?

• Contenders Named: Knicks, Cavs, and Sixers discussed in detail ([07:46]–[13:33])
  • Logan’s Pick: Knicks – “If your two top players are Joel Embiid and Paul George, I just don’t trust them...I’m not high on the Sixers and I’m not going to fall for that narcotic this season.” – Logan [09:01]
  • Howard’s Pick: Cavs – “It’s a two-team race in the East...Cleveland better across the board: defense, two-way bigs, more shot creation.” [10:10]
  • Raja’s Take: “I would lean Cleveland...but I would also acknowledge [the Knicks] toughness. The Sixers, if healthy...could be really dangerous, but you just can’t count on any of that.” [12:20]
• Sixers’ Outlook: All agree the Sixers are dangerous but too volatile and injury-prone to count on.

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3. Eastern Conference Sleeper Teams

([14:35]–[19:32])

• Contestants: Sixers, Hawks, Orlando, Detroit
  • Raja likes the Hawks: “I like the addition of Kristaps...building teams around a small guard...you’ve got to get the right recipe.” [15:12]
  • Howard picks Sixers by default: “If they’re healthy. Sixers could finish top four in the East. I don’t think that’s a crazy statement.” [13:32]
  • Logan agrees the East is broad after the favorites: “It’s hard...whether it’s a four-team race, I do like Orlando...prime year to come out and be a factor.” [17:12]

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4. Western Conference Sleeper Teams

([22:24]–[30:04])

• Main Sleeper: New Orleans Pelicans (unanimous surprise pick)
  • Howard: “They’ve got a bunch of good players...if Zion figures it out and plays 82 games, that team could win 49.” [23:17]
  • Logan: “I get a little Brooklyn Nets vibes from 2019...just a bunch of dudes I like. If Zion gets right, this could hit.” [24:23]
  • Raja’s Wildcard: Portland, for Jrue Holiday’s impact, but consensus is their talent is too unproven.

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5. The Houston Rockets: Contenders or Pretenders?

([31:14]–[45:29])

Framing the Hype:

• Key Additions: Kevin Durant to Houston, loss of Fred VanVleet to injury
• Central Debate: Can their ceiling still be championship-level after losing VanVleet?
  • Raja: “They have the bones to be a high-floor team...I don’t see falling apart as a real thing for them.” [31:47]
  • Howard: “They were a top-3 team and a potential threat to Oklahoma...without VanVleet, they’re probably not, unless someone pops at point guard: Reed Sheppard or Amen Thompson.” [32:33]
  • Logan (Critical): “I have a lot of questions...KD has to galvanize the locker room, which he hasn’t done over the last five, six years. Amen’s not a lock to make the leap this season...this feels like ‘significant step forward year,’ not a ‘title year.’” [35:57], [41:21]
  • Howard’s Bottom-Line: “Once you make a trade for a superstar in his twilight, you have just made yourself a win-now team...You did this to win now.” [43:21]
  • Consensus: Rockets are a clear playoff team with upside, but an unproven point guard situation and KD’s health/leadership are concerns. Playoff ceiling probably capped at 6-seed without further moves.

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6. The LeBron Question: Final Season in LA or the League?

([46:38]–[58:36])

• Cliff: “Should this be LeBron’s last season or his last with the Lakers?”
• Raja: “It should be whatever LeBron wants. He’s earned the right to have this be a decision on his terms.” [47:24]
• Howard: “If he’s still playing next year, hard to see it being with the Lakers. They’re pivoting to Luka’s timeline...He’s not their future co-star.” [49:07]
• Logan (spicy): “For the most calculated star we’ve ever seen, [LeBron] is going to have a miscalculation. He’s not a top 20 beloved Laker. He needs to ‘bite the bullet’ and let the Lakers transition.” [52:07], [54:01]
• Interesting: Howard floats remote possibility LeBron finishes his career overseas, but all doubt it would happen. [51:02]

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7. OKC and NBA Parity / Dynasty Question

([59:05]–[63:25])

• If OKC goes back-to-back, is it good or bad for the league’s parity?
  • Logan: “The league does best when there are dynasties...I want to see OKC run it up.” [59:19]
  • Howard: “Seven champions in seven years...parity is here and it will endure even if Thunder go back-to-back. But having a ‘big bad’ is good for the league.” [61:12]
  • Consensus: Parity is great, but dynasties drive ratings and conversation.

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8. MVP Picks / Season Predictions

([63:26]–[71:33])

• Logan: Wemby (Victor Wembanyama) – “Why not? He’s got the talent. Had DPOY numbers last year if not for the 65-game rule.” [30:18, 63:35]
• Howard and Raja: Jokic – “The stats are going to be just stupid, otherworldly...The table is set for him, unless Denver tries to limit his minutes.” [64:45]
• Narrative Watch: Discussion on voter fatigue, the importance of team wins, and how narratives shape the vote. Howard adamant that team record matters as much as individual brilliance.
  • Notable Quote: “He’s won three of the last five. If he wins this one, it’s four of six. If he wins four of six, how is that voter fatigue?” – Howard [70:43]

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On the Rocket’s pressure: “Once you have [Durant], you are able to touch something you otherwise weren’t close to touching...If there’s a trade to make, do it.” – Raja [45:36]
• On LeBron’s time in LA: “I don’t think he’s a beloved Laker. He’s not a top 20 beloved Laker. Not in that conversation. He’s going to overplay his coverage and for the most calculated star ever, it’s a miscalculation.” – Logan [52:07]
• On KD’s leadership: “He has to galvanize the locker room, which is something he hasn’t done over the last five, six years when he’s had the responsibility.” – Logan [35:57]
• On the nature of MVP voting: “The Thunder won 18 more games than the Nuggets last year. That was the deciding factor as much as anything. 18 games is a fucking huge amount.” – Howard [71:33]
• On NBA parity vs. dynasties: “The last time we had this much parity was the 70s and they were playing on tape delay. We ain’t trying to have that.” – Logan [60:04]

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Section Timestamps

• Opening & Banter / Netflix Move: [00:00]–[04:43]
• Preview/Intro of Topics: [04:43]–[07:25]
• Best in East: [07:46]–[13:33]
• Eastern Sleepers: [14:35]–[19:32]
• Western Sleepers: [22:24]–[30:04]
• Houston Rockets Deep Dive: [31:14]–[45:29]
• LeBron’s Future: [46:38]–[58:36]
• OKC/Dynasty/Parity: [59:05]–[63:25]
• MVP Picks / End of Content: [63:26]–[71:33]

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Summary Takeaways

• East: Knicks and Cavs are consensus favorites, but neither inspires complete confidence. Philly remains highest-variance team.
• West: OKC and Denver are clear tier-1, but sleeper potential in New Orleans; the Rockets are a huge wild card but have obvious depth/chemistry challenges.
• Houston’s Candidacy: Can’t ignore the loss of VanVleet. KD’s health and leadership are paramount. Their “win now” window is open but likely not fully realized yet.
• LeBron: All agree it should be his decision, but the Lakers’ organizational focus is pivoting. His legendary status complicates the expected endgame.
• League-Wide: While parity dominates, a new OKC dynasty would be welcome for storylines and ratings.
• MVP Race: Wemby is the bold pick; Jokic remains the odds-on favorite unless narrative shifts take hold. Voter fatigue is overstated—wins and timing matter most.

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Listen if you want: A wide-ranging, candid, and energetic look at the new NBA season—peppered with sharp analysis, hilarious asides, and no-nonsense takes on the league’s biggest questions.

Transcript

[A]

What's poppin?

[B]

I'm back. You know who it is.

[A]

It's Logan, AKA Logie. Bu. Not the two AKA Real One of the week.

[B]

AKA I'm back.

[A]

We had a great show today.

[B]

I can't lie. I was great to get in the lab with everyone.

[A]

We talked about all things preview for the NBA season. Are the Houston Rockets going to be good? Who's our sleeper out west? Is there even a sleeper in the Eastern Conference because of how terrible it's going to be? We talked about all of that. We ragged on each other.

[B]

Apparently, Howard and Roger don't think they're.

[A]

Baddies as we're going into the Netflix deal. They're really scared about this, about being on camera.

[B]

Not the kid.

[A]

I'm out here. You see this face? It's made for prime time. All that. Next on Real Ones, Cliff played a theme music.

[B]

What's poppin? Real Ones. Logan Murdoch here. Roger Bell there. Howard. Becky is also here. Cliff and the cut Victoria on the video. Good. Good to see you guys. You know, I haven't seen Raja or talk to Raja in a long time. I've been in contact with Beck a little bit, have been talking a lot to Cliff and Victoria over the last nine weeks.

[C]

Missed you, buddy. Welcome back.

[B]

Missed you too, man. You got a nice little setup. You know, I. I was not expecting the. The mic stand very. I'm happy for you, buddy. I'm really happy.

[D]

Did you do that yourself, Raja? Thank you.

[C]

Yeah, I put all this together, bro, but I can't get my Bluetooth headphones to work. So what are you gonna do, man? I'm old school, man. Give me a cord. Like, I think. Just give me a cord.

[D]

I think Roger averaged maybe like two technical issues per month during the time you've been gone, Logan.

[B]

Right.

[D]

It's about. Right about right about that.

[B]

You guys have only had like four shows.

[C]

It's every day. Every day I come to the. Every day I was being. Yeah, thank you, Howard. I appreciate that. But there's no shame in my game. Every time I come to this computer, okay, I got the little. I got the little earbuds. I love them.

[A]

Right.

[C]

For some reason, this computer doesn't remember them. So in order to get them to sync and I get it, everyone's going to tell me I'm done. But I've tried everything I've got to forget them and then run the risk of the computer not picking them up when I try to resync, which is what happened today.

[B]

Okay. Okay. And what you guys missed I mean.

[C]

I don't know what to say other.

[B]

Than like, okay, before we get to the season preview episode, because this is a season preview episode. I just would wish everybody could have seen Raja using a pin to hit the button on his headphones, his wireless headphones to reset them. I've never seen that before in my life. So, you know, the washed award of 2025 and beyond goes to just.

[D]

Dude, just. Just wait until we get on Netflix starting in January. Big news for the ringer this week and we're gonna need all. God only knows what stuff we're all gonna have to, like, try to incorporate. I know. My home set up here needs a massive upgrade, to say the least.

[B]

Roger, are you aware that we're gonna ready.

[C]

Netflix? What? This is. No.

[B]

Did you. I knew he didn't. I knew he wasn't even gonna see it. We're gonna. The announcement came on spot. What is that, like Spotify? Spotify and Netflix have come together and started in January. We are going to be appearing. Our podcast is going to be exclusively on Netflix for video content twice a week, sir. The full episode. We're taking them. I don't know if I'm thinking. It's on the release. Taking off of YouTube Netflix and putting it exclusively on Netflix. So, you know, new setups on the way.

[C]

Yeah, I love YouTube too, but the.

[D]

World is not ready. The world is not ready for us in 4K Ultra HD. Certainly not ready for me in 4K. Please, listeners, I'm begging you, do not put me on your, like, fucking 60 inch flat screen TV.

[B]

Like, it's just. What are you talking about? No, absolutely put him on the 60 inch, dog. We need as much people watching as we possibly can. We're going to see your bright dome on Netflix.

[D]

Dude, this face. This face was made for iPhones at max, maybe even a BlackBerry.

[C]

Let me just second, Howard. No, no, no, no.

[B]

Because for me or for you?

[C]

No, this for. For me and you. For both of us. I come on here every time and I'm like, is this Riverside or is it zoom there? Because zoom. I get a nice little filter. Like, it takes some of this shit out.

[B]

So when I get excited, I'm like, okay, yeah, all right, man. As a resident baddie of the bunch, As a resident baddie of the bunch, I will be on screen the whole time. You know, that's fine. Don't even worry about them. Just put me on. You can hear their voices. I'm going to.

[A]

You're. You're young.

[D]

You don't got all These, these wrinkles and things that might be exposed in high def. So, you know, I don't know.

[B]

I don't know who's that Sounds like a personal problem to me. Anyways, as you guys, as you guys could see it, here we are in mid season form, so we got to welcome another person to the gang. No, it's not Victoria. She is very camera shy. But it is Cliffy Bow. Cliffy Bow. Cliffy Bow. Cliffy Bow. Cliff, Cliff, Cliff. Straight out of Philly. Real quick context. Yesterday, me and, me and Victoria and Cliff were. We're on a video chat just discussing this episode and Cliff was taking it from under a freeway overpass in Philly and it looked a little treacherous. Are you okay, buddy? Are you fully recovered? Did you, did you get to where you needed to go in a safe manner?

[E]

It wasn't a freeway overpass though. It was a. It was a train. The subway. Well, technically the subway has an overpass where you have to get street level and then go back down. So that's what it was. I was. I'm never scared of Philly, bro. I'm good. I'm good out here.

[B]

Okay. All right. Excuse me.

[D]

He does have bars on his windows in the background.

[E]

That's to keep us.

[B]

That's to keep it safe.

[D]

I'm just.

[B]

Oh, that's to keep it safe. I'm saying those bars are going to.

[D]

Be in 4K HD starting in January.

[E]

I'm good out here, man. I'm good in Philly, man. Everybody know me. So I'm. I'm straight, man. I'm set up good out here. You know what I mean? Howard? I'm good, man. Don't worry about me, brother.

[A]

Just.

[D]

I'm not worried about you. I'm just saying.

[E]

Thank you. Thank you, Howard. Thank you. However, I do, I do appreciate the concern. I know the bars and all that. I live on the first floor. So, I mean you can't just be having nobody peeking through your windows trying, you know, I mean, pop in, see what's going on. But you know, that'd be. That'd be a nightmare for them, honestly. So I'm good.

[B]

Okay.

[E]

So we good?

[D]

This episode is brought to you by Fox 1. Fox 1 is now live. You can stream all your Fox favorites together in one place. From the MLB post season to NFL on Fox to big Noon Saturday starring Rob Stone with Fox one. You get it all live. Start your seven day free trial today. Offers are subject to change. Go to Fox one for complete terms and conditions. Fox one streaming now.

[A]

This Episode is brought to you by Indeed. Slow and steady doesn't always win the race. Like when Phil Jackson really needed a shot in Game 2 of the NBA Finals, he just gave the ball to Kobe and let him cook.

[B]

And that helped win the game.

[A]

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[B]

All right, all right, all right. What are we doing? What are we doing, Cliff? What are we. What we. What we got going today? What's going on?

[E]

We got the season preview questions, right? Beck, you ready for this, the season preview questions. Raj, are you ready for this, the season?

[C]

My favorite day of the year, you.

[E]

Know what I'm saying? Season kicks off next week. I need that energy, man. I need you all to get up.

[B]

I need.

[D]

Joel, let's go. Making his debut tonight.

[E]

Yes. Basketball is back in Philly. Joel Embiid is making his debut. Paul George is practicing again, but he won't be in the season opener again, so there's that. But speaking of the Eastern Conference, let's start off with the first question, shall we? Let's go. All right, let's see. Logan, of course, had to write this one in. So who will be the best team in the Eastern Conference and why? I want to be the Philadelphia 76ers.

[A]

Logan.

[B]

I wrote that. Did I write that?

[D]

That was just. You were just being mean for no reason.

[B]

Well, to be fair, Cliff was supposed to choose the questions. He could have very easily chosen not.

[D]

He could have ended.

[E]

That was. But that was the first one. No, no, but that was the first one, and then you had to go in there, and then you have to talk crap about the Sixers for somebody. I don't know why. Even though the Sixers do got a nice shot this year. But, you know, I mean, I know you, man. This is how you do. This is how you operate.

[B]

Okay, man? I think. Do you want me to answer the question first? Am I the one?

[E]

Please, please, please.

[D]

Logan, you've been off, man. You got. You got. You gotta have a bunch of stuff saved up from, like, two months. Go for it. It's all you.

[B]

Sure? Yeah. Like, it was, like, so much happening during the two months I was gone. It was just so much the best team. Probably gonna be the Knicks on paper. Right? They got a much to Cliff chagrin. And the reason why I just don't. I don't trust. If your two top players are Joel Embiid and Paul Jordan, just don't trust them to, you know, go deep in the playoffs or do anything for that matter. And then you put the injuries on top of that. You put the institution on top of that. I just don't believe in the team. Sorry. I just don't know what to say. Cliff tried to feign like confidence when I asked him about the Sixers earlier and I don't believe him. There's like there's nothing to believe in with this team and their infrastructure is currently stated. It feels like they're a team between two eras at this point. If indeed can stay healthy, they'll be good. But even if he does still healthy, what does he do in the playoffs? Anybody? Can you, can you give me a refresher on that, Cliff? No, you can't. It's fine because this is going to break your heart. That's why I am not high on the Sixers and I'm not going to fall for that narcotic this season. God bless Philly.

[D]

So your answer was New York?

[B]

My answer was New York, yes.

[D]

I think it's Cleveland actually. It's like it is a two team race in the East I think I don't see. I know everybody's like getting real giddy about Orlando and Atlanta. I will, I'll talk about Philly later. Logan, you missed like an entire summer of me going hard contrarian and hard optimist on on Philly as Cliff is nodding in agreement and it's not a bit I believe it. But we'll get back to that at a different point. I do think the Cavs though I they their, their postseason flameouts kind of concern me. Part of that this last spring was definitely injury related but just on paper if it's this is New York versus Cleveland, it's a toss up but Cleveland better across the board defense better two way bigs, more shot creation with Garland and Mitchell than you get with Brunson and fill in the blank right. Like right. I do think Mike Brown has already made this offense more interesting and dynamic. We'll see what the results ultimately are in the regular season. I think there are things you can do through Mikhail Bridges and things you can do through Carl Anthony Townes, but I just think two pure shot creators who can do anything possible with the ball in their hands. Cleveland has to. The Knicks have Brunson on whom they've been over Reliant and they're trying to wean themselves a little, but, like, I don't know that a bunch of Mikhail Bridges and, like, now Jordan Clarkson is going to, like, be enough there. So I just think there's, like, a couple little things that the Cavs have a little bit better than. Than the Knicks, but I don't think it's like some big gap.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, it's a toss up for sure. I think what I do trust with the Knicks, that I don't know if I necessarily trust the Cavaliers, the level of toughness required if they're playing together, playing against each other in a postseason matchup. Right. And that does come with inconsistencies. Right. Like, Carl Towns is somebody that can get you big numbers, as he did in the playoffs last year, but, like, in closeout games, he can earn. As the series goes on, he can wane from a series. So I don't, like, doubt it, but I do feel like we're splitting hairs there. I don't think there's a wrong answer either way. What do you think, Raja? What do you think? You want to talk about the Sixers first, or do you want to talk about who's the best team in the Eastern Conference?

[C]

I mean, however you guys would like it. I think you. You guys both are on the right track. I don't. I mean, I would lean Cleveland like. Like Howard, but, you know, I would also acknowledge the point you just made about the Knicks. Their greediness, their toughness. If they got their paws on them in a series. You know, I could see that not playing out well for. For Cleveland.

[B]

Right.

[C]

But I think regular season, I'd probably lean towards Cleveland. The Sixers is, you know, after you get through those two teams, like the east, you know, I put Detroit in an interesting category. There's some teams I put in that, in that next tier. But like the Sixers, if healthy.

[D]

And.

[C]

If firing on all cylinders, could be really dangerous in the Eastern Conference, that you just don't. You can't count on any of that. That's the problem with them. Right. Like, you can't count on their health. You can't count on, you know, organizationally, they'll get it right. And so that's really scary. I would just say, while I don't put a lot of stock in the Sixers, I would not be surprised if someone took a flyer bet on Philadelphia and they captured health in a bottle, if you will. They could be a real dangerous team in that Eastern Conference. Yeah.

[D]

And that's all I'm saying about the Sixers, like if, if they're healthy. And I know that like, oh, they're like, cue the fucking laugh track every time we say if they're healthy.

[B]

But Embiid, Paul, Georgia, we're getting lit.

[D]

EmbiId, Georgia, Maxi plus, you know, McCain, Edgecomb, everybody else, like, I don't think anybody wants to face that team at full strength in April, in late April. And I actually think as much as we're all like, oh, look what the Hawks could do, look at what the, the Magic can do. Sixers could finish top four in the East. I don't think that's a crazy statement. I know that that sounds like this ludicrous, like just zag at this point. I don't think so. Like there's, there's a scenario here.

[B]

Question though, real quick. Is the Eastern comp, like whoever finishes fourth, are they going to like, is it going to take like 45 wins to get to fourth place? What is that?

[D]

Yeah, it may be a low bar.

[B]

It may be a low.

[D]

That may be like 48, you know, but it's not going to be like we're not seeing like 450 win teams.

[B]

Like 28 wins to get you into playing or some shit like that. We just.

[D]

Let's not get crazy. Let's not get crazy.

[B]

All right, what's the next question?

[E]

All right, keeping it in the Eastern Conference. Who is your Eastern Conference sleeper? Raj, I want to go to you to this one because you was talking high about my Sixers. So could they be a sleeper in the Eastern Conference?

[C]

Yes, but like they're not going to be the team I pick. I think the high end talent, like is there if they're healthy. When you're talking about the Maxis, the Embiid's, the Paul Georges, like, I think everyone could see that if that's healthy and everything's working well. So like I wouldn't necessarily consider them a sleeper. I think I probably take, I probably take the Hawks, I think, as a sleeper team. Like, you know, interesting to see which way that goes because you could see it playing out really well. You know, I like the addition of Chris Stabs. I like the, the addition of the Killing Alexander Walker. Like they're, they're long. When you're building teams around like AI, let's say, like to use a Sixer reference, when you've got like a relatively small guard that does a lot of your scoring, playmaking and stuff like that, you've got to get the recipe. I always talk about the recipe right around them, length Defensive prowess, like those abilities shooting the ball is going to be interesting for them. But, but I do, I do think they could be a very interesting team. They'll be my wild card probably in the Eastern Conference.

[D]

I mean, I already went hard on, on Philly and I think saying that the Sixers could finish top four like that, by definition, I feel like that makes them my sleeper team pick because I think everybody's already written them off. Like, I think the whole world has basically just decided they're a joke, they're done, it's over. You know, Embiid and Paul George are nothing more than albatross contracts and the Sixers are, are, are over. Like, there's nothing to talk about. But also it's like process of elimination here. Guys like Orlando and Atlanta I didn't consider as sleepers because I think every, most people have them in the top four or five in the east anyway. Detroit was already a team on the rise. Milwaukee is always going to be hovering because of Giannis. And then it's like Boston, Indiana, everybody's writing off because of, you know, gap year kind of stuff. Miami, hard to figure, like Chicago, Toronto, Charlotte, tier. I, I don't have any faith in those, in those guys. And then, you know, Brooklyn and Washington are like the, the bottom, of course. So, like, there's just. I don't feel like there's a lot of candidates for a big leap in the east this year. So it's almost like Philly by default for me.

[B]

It was really hard to like, choose this, this question for that reason though, Howard, because it was like all the teams, like you said, are teams that should be in there. Like, you talk about the Hawks. Like, I'm really high on the Hawks just for the simple fact of like, where the Eastern Conference is right now. It's similar to how it was in 2021, just albeit different circumstances in the Eastern conference, because in 2021 you had a lot of teams that had a very small break after that bubble season, and the Hawks were able to take advantage of that. And I, I feel a similar way that they can take advantage of, probably make an Eastern Conference finals run if Trey does what he's supposed to do. If Kristaps stays healthy, they have a, you know, some great defenders on that team. They got the Kale, Alexander, Walker. That was a big pickup. I really like that pickup. And it's just in an off year. You should be scared of the teams like the Hawks. So they were like my sleeper. But, like, to your point, it's hard and whether it's like a four team race, I do like Orlando and they kind of had like a bit of a prove it year this year. Right. Because those rookie contracts are going to start coming to an end.

[D]

Right.

[B]

They're going to have to really start choosing who they want to build around. Obviously is going to be Paolo, but they impressed last year with what they did with the roster that they had with all those injuries. This is kind of the, the, the prime year to come out and be a factor and show everybody what you want to be for the next five years. And I know they, some say they overpaid for Desmond Bain, but that's kind of what you got to do at this stage if you expect to be that good. Um, so I guess I would pick the Hawks because I like them so much. But I'm not mad at Orlando if you pick that either.

[C]

Yeah, it was that. It was tough though. Big for the. Just for the reasons you guys are saying. I mean, like those after. I mean, New York, Cleveland, you're into a whole group of teams that we could say if you picked them as the sleeper, you'd be like, they're not really a sleeper because they've been around. Like, because Orlando's in the same mix. Right? You're like. But then when you get to the bottom of that Easter conference, you're like, yeah, I don't know if I could really take a flyer on that.

[B]

So it's almost hard to take a flyer on Charlotte.

[C]

It's always going to be one of those teams out of that second tier, right. Like somebody that. So it's weird.

[D]

Also, by the way, like, I'm looking at sleepers. I'm not thinking like sleeper necessarily to win the East. I'm just like, sleeper, like, who's. Who's going to surprise this year or who's going to make a big leap. I don't know if you guys intended it more as like, sleeper contender because, like, I don't think we think we have sleeper contenders right now. Like, I think we have like two teams in the west and two teams in the east, and that's, that's the contender tier and then there's a bunch of teams chasing them in each.

[C]

I would agree with that.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

Yeah. The Ringer NBA show is brought to you by FanDuel. This NBA season is coming, and FanDuel is the place to let you play your game. They have everything you need to get ready for the season with tons of cool bets, like season leaders, player specials, win totals, exact team outcomes and so much more. And even better, you can parlay your favorite bets together for an even bigger payout. So take a flyer on the MVP race, crown your champion in October or parlay your dark horse playoff picks. I think I'm gonna go with Wimby for the mvp. I think I'm going to go with OKC for the best record in the.

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League and I think think that I'm.

[A]

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[A]

Now.

[E]

Let'S switch it to the West Coast. Now.

[B]

Who.

[E]

Who's your guys? Western Conference sleeper.

[B]

Oh, I got one. Okay, go ahead. Go ahead. Howard.

[E]

You want to go, Howard, I want to hear yours.

[D]

It's just tough, man, because like. All right, look, I'm gonna just do this by tears again. Oklahoma and Denver is the top tier. That's your. That's your championship race right there. And one of those two is going to win the west and then win the championship. You've got five teams that are chasing them that if things break right, maybe they're in the conference finals. That's Warriors, Wolves, Rockets, Lakers, Clippers. And there's like three more teams they're going to make the play in, right? So Dallas, Memphis, San Antonio. We'll see Sleeper in the, in the West. This is going to be. This is going to sound like a reach, but this is not. I want to be clear.

[B]

Wait, don't take mine. Say what you're going to say.

[C]

Sounds like he's about to take mine, too.

[B]

I think he's going to take mine. I think he's going to take mine.

[D]

Not a sleeper to win the west, just a sleeper to be like, say.

[B]

It and say it. Just say it.

[D]

The New Orleans Pelicans.

[B]

I was going to pick them. I was going to pick them. I was.

[D]

You turned it to me first. You like, you could have gone.

[B]

I could have gone. I picked New Orleans. I did pick New Orleans.

[D]

They've got a bunch of good players. I don't know how well it's going to fit. I don't know if Zion's going to play more than 25 games. I don't know if Jordan Pool's going to take 30 shots a game. I don't know how any of this is going to work out. By the way, best quote of the off season. We talked about this a couple of weeks ago in the pod. Jordan Pool, when they signed Kavon Looney, saying, I haven't had a good screen set for me in like two years or three years or whatever. Phenomenal. Just great stuff. They got a button like Herb Jones, Trey Murphy.

[B]

Trey Murphy. Had a good year last year.

[D]

Colorado, like, Trey Murphy, was on a tear before he got hurt. Like, there's just a lot of good players there. And I know we're clowning them because they've had some questionable moves in the off season, but there's good players there. I don't know what it's going to turn into, but, yeah, that's my sleeper. And apparently.

[B]

Hey, man 2 Phone Joe Dumars, man. Out here making out here willing and dealing baby photos. I, I, the thing that was, that was hard. The reason why I just chose New Orleans because, like, there's a lot of established teams, right? Like, if I, I can't choose Memphis, for instance, as my Western Conference sleeper because there's in a world where, like, maybe they, it wouldn't be a surprise if they, you know, just overcame expectations. But when I look at the New Orleans Pelicans, I'm just. And this is probably going to be on our worst takes. Probably, who cares? But I get a little Brooklyn Nets vibes from, like, 2019. Like, just a whole bunch of dudes that I kind of like, right? Like, if, like, if Zion figures it out, right, and he plays 82 games and gets them, that team could win 49 games. I really, truly believe that. Right. One thing that I do want to, like, push back on before we get to Raja, I think we're giving the warriors way too much right here, man. I just, I think we're, I think, I think they need to bump down a tier a little bit, bro. They have, they, they. With their off season and, you know, the unction that's going on in the Bay Area, I'm not about to be out there's auction. Yeah. Yeah.

[D]

What kind of auction?

[B]

Do you even know what an unction is, sir? Do you even know what the unction is? The auction was the podcast before there was the podcast before I came back. It was. It's old.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

But.

[B]

And they have it. And they. And they have their biggest off season move. I know he's gonna rise the next time he sees. Gonna kick my ass. I already know what's gonna. I already know. I already know. I see the.

[C]

Look at his eyes hurt, too. Don't believe it.

[B]

I know. Hey, listen, listen. I know over the last nine weeks, bro. Dad is a real thing. Dad strength is a real thing. But I'm just saying, like, it just, it's different. But no, I don't. Like, their, Their biggest offseason move was Al Horford, who's somehow older than everyone on this chat. Like, I'm not about to anoint them. They have to earn to get back on that tier. I don't think that they're still better.

[D]

Than 90% of the NBA.

[B]

90. Let's relax you. You're Raven Ritter. Got you, Howard. Anyways, Raja, so who's your sleeper?

[C]

Yeah, see, it was interesting because I, you guys ran me off of my original sleeper because they fall into a category that the Hawks would fall into. For me, it was the Spurs. Like, you know, I mean, like, so, like, I didn't want to like double down on that. So like my number two in the Western Conference is from that bottom of the barrel and I don't really have a great articulated argument for it. So maybe it's like a question to you guys more than it is like me trying to convince you. Everywhere Jrue Holiday goes, everywhere he goes, they win or they win more than they did, at least before he was there. He brings a lot of intangibles to a locker room. He brings a lot of tangibles to the court. He, he. He's just got a lot of the qualities that you need when you put together a group of young, relatively young pieces that, that don't have that like leadership component or direction. I think I've kind of convinced myself of Portland. Could I. Am I crazy for that?

[B]

I think you're a little crazy.

[C]

But I mean, not in, not in terms of winning a championship though, right?

[B]

Building a, building a building being way better than expected.

[D]

You mean just making, making a leap. The defense is there, but like offense and shot creation is, is. Is a problem. And like, you know, Denny Abdia had this like phenomenal final kick to the season last year over the last 20 games. But like, you got to always look a little bit skeptically at a guy having a big breakout in the last 20 games of a lost season where they're playing games that don't matter against a lot of other teams were. That are playing games that don't matter because it's down the stretch. But Denny Abdia looked really good. Scooters hurt right now. You know who else Is Shaden Sharp going to take another leap? Like I just.

[B]

Yang Hanson, baby. Let's get it, y'.

[D]

All.

[B]

Trying to see what's up. Yong Hansen. Let's get it, baby.

[D]

Drew's erosion was pretty palpable last season and that's my concern there. Like, I think all. Everything you said, Raja, about the off court stuff I think is true. And I think he's going to be great for that team kind of Spiritually. Right. Leadership wise and all that other stuff. But on the court, I don't know how much more he has to contribute or at least at the level that we're accustomed to seeing. But I like pick. I like the pick. What?

[C]

I guess. All right, if I'm trying to make the argument again, like, and I'm not. What would they have to do, like to. What would they have to do to be considered like a, A successful kind of step forward for that organization? What like we talking about play in just below to play in, like where we. Where would they have to go?

[D]

Day 136 last year.

[C]

Right.

[D]

And we're three wins out of the play in. So I think significant progress means you gotta somehow break the top 10. And like, I mean, here's, here's the exercise at this time of year, guys, right? Who from last year's top 10 is falling out? And I'm looking at Sacramento as one likely candidate. I'm looking at Memphis as a possibility. And I'm not sold on Dallas. So there's the three vulnerable teams, I think. And San Antonio's taking one of those spots for sure. Right. Like, the reason I didn't pick San Antonio as the sleeper pick is like, I feel like they are like we're like post hipster San Antonio at this point. Like everybody's expecting the Suns or excuse.

[B]

Me, big Williamsburg vibes to break through.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

Spurs are going to make the plane at minimum.

[A]

Right.

[D]

So they, they take the kid. This the King's spot. Let's say if Dallas or Memphis fall out, can Portland or New Orleans then crack the top 10? I guess that's the question. Because I don't believe in the Suns and the Jazz are just whatever.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, hey, San Antonio was supposed to go to the play in last year. Like, if Wimy doesn't get hurt, this. That's probably the most dangerous team in the postseason or at least in the playing, you know, like, I don't know if it came out, but I picked Wimby to be my MVP this year. I just said why not? You know, like, I think that he, I mean, he has that talent. He had the numbers last year to win defensive player of the year. But the only reason why he didn't is because the new 65 game rule is hating. And so I think that this team is primed to do something. I think they could. I think they can play their way out of the play in. To be honest. I think I'd love the Spurs.

[A]

Yeah, I like Spurs.

[B]

I think they're really good. I think they're right on, right on, right on spell right on schedule.

[D]

We all expect them to break through. It's a matter of like where do they top out at right? Can they crack the top six and be an automatic play of playoff team or are they working their way in through the play?

[B]

Yeah. All right, we got, let's do y'.

[E]

All ready for the next question?

[C]

Yep.

[E]

Let's keep it in the Western Conference. Now this team had a lot of hype this off season. Made a couple big additions. You know. You know this is one of my favorite cities. Logan, one of Logan's favorite cities. Let's go to Htown, man, they got KD htm, you know, made a couple, made a couple additions.

[D]

Although they did Logan's favorite Twitter friend, Katie.

[E]

They lost Fred Van Vliet for the season, unfortunately. But there's a lot of hype surrounding the Rockets. Are we sure that they're going to be a good team this season or could it all just crumble apart?

[C]

I think they're going to be a good team. I, I, I, I do, I mean I don't know that they have the same I, I don't know that I'd put them in the same threat category to win a championship as I might have if they had a true pg. And I think personally, you know, I h and I talked about it when, when Logan wasn't here. Like if they made some sort of move to address that, even if it's around the deadline, I'd feel better about that. But I do think they have the bones to be a, a high floor type of team. I don't think, I don't think they're a low floor team. So you know, again the question was do, do we think they'll be what to some degree what we expected or will they just fall apart? I don't think, I don't see falling apart as an, as a, as a real thing for them. I just don't.

[B]

I know, I know.

[D]

Logan's just this waiting. So like let me, let me, let me repeat a lot of or reiterate some of what Roger's points before Logan just goes to town on them. The Rockets are going to be legitimately good to great even without Fred Van Vliet. And the question simply, I think about ceiling. Right. They were definitely a top three team and a potential threat to Oklahoma when Fred VanVleet was healthy. They are probably not without him. Although by the way, if you guys saw the Breed shepherd highlights and box score Last night I had a text from a buddy this morning. It was like, I might have to reevaluate my thoughts on Houston. Like they, somebody has to pop at that spot, right? Either literally at point guard Reed shepherd or, or an acquisition in during the season or somebody else has to just take on those duties. Whether that's running more of the offense through Sengun, whether that's Amen Thompson just, you know, getting a bazillion pick and rolls per game and putting the ball in his hands a ton. And I think everyone's expecting Amen Thompson to take the big leap. And Shangoon is still improving. Like, there's a lot to like here, even before we get to whether or not Kevin Durant will play 60 games. But to that point, if you just think about like all the possessions that Jalen Green could not handle, late game situations that are now going to be in KD's hands, at least if he's healthy, that's a huge difference. And they're going to miss Fred Van Vliet's big shot making in, in clutch, in the clutch. But, um, I, I think that's where you want kd, right? You want him to close out games and put the ball in his hands a lot. I, I, My two biggest concerns are, yes, who replaces Fred Van Vliets either literally at the position or just his production, leadership, ball handling, playmaking, shot creation, and KD Durant last five years, and this is adjusted for the one Covid season, he's averaged 56 games. He played 62 last year, 75 the year before, but he's averaged 56 over the last five. So 60 games for KD is about the expectation, I think. You know, maybe he gets to 65 again, but that, that's a lot of games you're going to have to get through without him.

[C]

Logan, hold your thought real quick because I'm gonna let you go. I want to just say it's two things to Howard. One, I agree with you, like the, the Reed, the Reed thing is interesting to me because I mean, he was always been really, really talented and super skilled and shot creation, point production, so on and so forth. Like, could easily fill the void of a, of a Fred Van Vliet. Not easily, but like, you could see that the rest of it requires a little bit of seasoning in terms of, you know, the control of the pace, the, the, the knowing when to get the ball. Here, you know, they're just, they're just things that come with playing a certain amount of NBA games that he will eventually get to. Even if he's ready to step in and point produce right now. That, that, that, that might just take a little bit of time to get to the reason. Just to add on to what you were saying with all the pieces that they have, I just think from a foundational standpoint, what they hang their hat on, tough defensive scrap for every. Like, though that's a sustainable thing like that, that type of style solidifies your floor, if that makes sense. Like, when you hang your hat on those things, it provides a nice base for you to start building off of. And so for all those reasons, I just. I just don't see the bottom falling out. Logan, the floor is yours.

[D]

The floor that's falling out.

[C]

Yeah, the floor that's not going to fall.

[B]

Okay. I just think that I have a. Just have a lot of questions about the Rockets in general that just need to be answered as the season progresses. Right, Right. We referenced kd, we referenced his. His health, we referenced how good he is in the clutch, but we haven't referenced the fact that, like, the locker rooms that he has been in and has overseen over the last five years that you have suggested have been rocky, to say the least. Right. And so he has a lot to prove in that department, both in his relationship with his coaches, which I've written about and he's gotten mad at me about. And, you know, thus, you know, we had our little Twitter exchange, whatever. But the fact remains that, you know, he has clashed with coaches and his. You can ask, you can ask Roger how that Brooklyn locker room was towards the end. You can. We, we. I could give you anecdotally, and how the locker room was in Phoenix last year was pretty bad. You know, when he clashed with the coaches, by the way, he was on. He had two coaches in Phoenix, had two coaches in Brooklyn because he didn't like who was coaching him, even though he handpicked him. So he has to figure out, you know, how he moves forward because he has a lot to prove on that end. Right. His numbers are going to be what they are, but he has to galvanize the locker room, which is something that he hasn't done over the last five, six years when he's had the responsibility to do so. There is also the point of Amen Thompson. We got to see, like, it's not a guarantee that he's going to make the leap this season. I think that he eventually can. But also that point guard position is going to be a bit weird of an adjustment because he's going to be playing out of position. Now, I know he's played point guard in spurs, but he hasn't played starting level NBA point guard day in and day out. So that's going to be an adjustment while you're trying to make sure that his trajectory is going a certain way. So that's a question mark. And then when we get to the playoffs, like, I think Stephen Adams is great. Is he going to shut down Jokic in that front line in Denver? I don't, I don't think so. And is Shangoon going to do that? We know that's not going to happen because we know how he is defensively, especially when it comes to one on one when it comes to the postseason. So I think that they're going to be a fine team. I don't think, I think that they probably have a high ceiling, but I don't think they're going to reach it necessarily this season just based on all the questions that I have. And on top of all of that, you're having, like, on paper it looks really good, but this team has to come together. Like it's more than just what you see on paper to start a season. Like they have real. This is the real big moment for MAU Doken is a real big moment for Kevin Durant as a leader. And if those things go right, then I think they'll be fine. But that is a big if Those are my $0.03.

[C]

I think they're a valid $0.03. I mean, there's some, there's some, a few things I think, you know, what's interesting is like a player like Dylan Brooks, let's say, that's not there. The average fan probably doesn't realize what personalities like that, like that, that antagonist, like what they mean to the, the team when that guy is your guy, right? Like when that personality is your personality. How much leadership that provides within locker rooms and stuff like that. I think that the last few stops for KD and the argument you just laid out, I can't speak to all of those places. But, but I would say this. I think that IME Udoka and his style as a coach are, is one of the styles that can take a Kevin Durant and make up for maybe some of the things that you might leave, you know, wanting in the leadership category from your star. I think his hand is heavy enough, like he demands enough out of a team from what I've seen of his coaching career, that he makes up for some of that, right? Like because he, he checks the locker room a little bit Instead of like the players always policing themselves type of style, I do think KD provides a little bit of a safe haven for Amen Thompson to continue to develop. Like, you don't, you don't cast him all the way in the role of what you would expect him to maybe be two years from now. Do you know what I mean? Logan, like, your point is well taken on the PG of it all, but like in a world where you threw him to the wolves this year and said, hey, go get it, my dog, you need to be a perennial all Star right now, that's not always realistic, but having KD there kind of protects him in that space a little bit. So I could see that. I think your points, you have some decent points. Nobody stops Jokic. Yeah, I mean, like that, you're just, you're just not fucking stopping him. Right? So like I, I do, I do think that they're gonna really have to figure out what, what that Fred Van Vliet void, what it, what, what that's gonna look like and how close they can come to filling that void. I think is gonna to a large part determine what their ceiling becomes.

[B]

I mean, the problem with like the point guard by committee, right, is like that you putting a lot of people out of position. Like a lot of people can play point guard for this team as currently constructed. But you'd rather have KD in the post.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Than having him play point guard, which he can play at a high level, but it takes away from the rest of the offense. Right. And then Almond Thompson, same deal.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Like he can play point guard, but it's not as effective as you would want it to be. But like to your point man, like, I do think that. I hope that it does work out. But another thing that I would add on to that is I don't think this, no matter what, even if the things happen that are supposed to happen, happen. I don't think this is the year for them necessarily because I think even if you throw amidst of the wolves, I think we're, they're working towards the future and next season and when they can probably have some continuity, some continuity if you will. But like this, this is a. I take a, a significant step forward year. I don't think it's to take the significant step forward into a title. It's contingent year.

[D]

And yet, and yet they mis made a trade for a 37 year old superstar who's one of the top 10 players of all time, top 12, wherever you want to rank. Kevin Durant. But the time is now. And that's why when Raj and I talked about this a couple weeks ago, like, my feeling was like, all right, cool. You've got this nice young core. You already. You hit the gas. You. You traded Jalen Green and Dylan Brooks for a win. Now, in his late, late, late prime, player Kevin Durant, he's got a year, two maybe left at an elite level. The time is now. And which is why, to me, you have to go get a Fred Van Vliet replacement. Because everything we've just discussed now places all these caveats on them, and I don't think the answer can be what Logan just said. Frankly, I don't think the answer can be, it's okay, we're young. We have a couple more years. Yeah, you do. But you got Kevin Durant for a reason, and the reason is right now.

[B]

I just think that's what it is. I don't. I don't say that that's what they're planning for. I just think that's just what. Even if they trade for somebody else, I think that's just what it is. Like, they're still building because they also traded KD for literally nothing. They traded him for Jalen Green and Dylan Brooks, two players they didn't want on their roster.

[D]

You're going to get Raja mad again about us of going after Jalen Green.

[B]

Careful. I mean. No, I rock with Jalen Green. I'm just saying. I'm talking about from the. That was their front office's thinking when it happened. I'm.

[D]

I'm just saying that the second you make a trade for a superstar in his twilight, you have just made yourself a win now team. Do they also have a post KD future? Hell, yeah. But you didn't trade for Kevin Durant so that you could be good a few years from now after he's retired. You did this to win now.

[B]

I think they traded him. Honestly, though, I think they traded him for him to just, like, hey, see what happens. Because if they traded for him to be like a. Because they could, right? Because they still haven't committed to him long term. And this is basically a prove it year for. For Kevin and everyone involved, which is weird because Kevin is so great. Like, I don't. It's crazy that he's in this position to where he's, like, playing for another contract. But, I mean, you know, that's.

[D]

We. All. Right, so we all agree that, like, probably, as of right now, they're probably not now a title contender this season because of the Fred Van Vliet injury. Right.

[B]

I thought. But by the way, I thought so beforehand that they weren't a title considered.

[D]

You were already a spectator. Yeah. Okay, so they're not top three necessarily. They're somewhere in that pack of teams chasing the top two. But, like, when you call them, when you consider them a potential, like, major disappointment. Logan, how low is that floor then? Are you saying, like, oh, they're like now playing instead of playoffs?

[B]

I think they're like a 6C. I think it could be like a 6C.

[A]

All right.

[D]

Just curious.

[C]

Yeah, Listen, I will just double down on if there is a trade to be made, do it that do it because I'm. While everything you said might be true about kd, like, you guys are more connected to me in terms of like, hey, it's not going to cost us a lot to go get him. Let's see what happens with this. Howard's right. Once you have him, you are, you are. You are able to touch something that you otherwise ordinarily weren't that close to touching. And the question becomes, like, what will you do within that window of time? Like, it's just the fact. So, like, if there's something out there that doesn't, you know, break your back moving forward or, you know, doesn't severely wreck the core that you hope to have if this doesn't work out, you have to play around the fringes to see if there's something that you can bring in to be a poor man's version, if you will.

[B]

Word. Good potting, guys. What was. What's the next question?

[D]

Your teen adjective used to describe an individual whose spirit is unyielding, unconstrained, one who navigates life on their own terms, effortlessly.

[A]

They do not always show up on.

[D]

Time, but when they arrive, you notice an individual confident in their contradictions.

[C]

They know the rules, but behave as.

[D]

If they do not exist. The new fragrance by Miu Miu, defined by you.

[C]

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[E]

Would this be an NBA pod without talking about LeBron, Ramon James? Should.

[B]

Who's that?

[E]

Should this be LeBron's last season or should this, should this be his last season with the Lakers? Now we've seen LeBron do some side quests this offseason. He cut Kai Sina's dreads. He's on, he's doing.

[B]

He out here talking about locker room dialect, locker room dynamics, like the, the other sex wild.

[E]

It feels like it's going to be his last. This feels like it's going to be his last season.

[B]

Y' all not in these streets. It's fine. You know, you guys don't stay in the streets that meet Cliff and Victoria, be at, in the chat. Nevermind. That's why we have a side chat.

[E]

This feels like his last season, but should it, should this just be his last season with the Lakers or should this be his last season as an NBA player?

[C]

It should be whatever LeBron James wants. I mean like, it should be whatever he wants, man. He's earned the right to like to have this be a decision that, that he makes and, and have it be on, on his terms now. You know, the, the, the brawny of it all comes into play. Like what, what does he want that to look like? Is he trying to hang on long enough to, to a point where he could actually play on the floor if Bronnie continues to develop and they can get on the courts again, like all of that, you know, I'm not, I'm not in their camp. I'm not behind closed doors in terms of the decision making with that. But like LeBron, if LeBron says he wants a tour where we're going to bring out like all of the gifts and shit on everybody's home floor and they're going to wave a goodbye to LeBron, damn it, then give it to him. You know what I mean? Like, I think, I think LeBron deserves to go out however he wants. As far as the Lakers, as far as the Lakers go, that's always been the fascinating thing to me. Like, LeBron doesn't strike me as a dude who, maybe I'm wrong and I don't mean to speak out of turn, but he doesn't, he doesn't strike me as the dude who would take whatever, theoretically to like to be around, right? Like, he's still like, yo, this is what I want. And at some point that's going to come up against the Lakers plans. So what they have to do in terms of that, like, like, I don't know, it might wind up that he has to do that somewhere else. I would hope that they could figure out a way for him to do it as a Laker. I personally wouldn't necessarily want to see LeBron as a Charlotte Hornet. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like, I wouldn't want to see that if it were Cleveland again. You know, I could see that if it was a retread maybe, but, like, I don't want to see it anywhere else. Personally.

[D]

I'm with Raja on the first part. It's LeBron's last season should be whenever LeBron thinks his last season should be. But on the part about whether this should be his last year with the Lakers, yeah, it probably should be. Like, if he's still playing this time next year, it's getting harder to see it with the Lakers. We know what happened over the summer, right? They don't offer the extension, so he opts in. He's on an expiring deal for one of the rare times in his career where a team does not want to lock him up long term. They have tied their future, their present and Future to Luka LeBron. You know, the rich Paul put out the statement that made it seem pretty clear that they're like not entirely thrilled with the idea that they're on Lucas timeline instead of LeBron's now and they want to win now. They had a pretty lackluster off season. I'm not impressed with anything they've done since getting Luca. And the Lakers just kind of seem ready to move on. And Luca, by the way, since they're on Lucas timeline, Luca needs a co star in his prime. Not. Not a co star at age 41, going on 42. This time next year, he'll be months away from being 42. Luca needs a co star in his prime. LeBron's salary, his presence, his Persona, his just everything make it impossible for them to get Luca's new co star and they need one for the next five to whatever years so that like, that's the mission for the Lakers now. We have. We have our star for the next decade who's Lucas costar, because it's not LeBron. It is for another five minutes or so, but that's coming to a close real soon. So, yeah, for. For everybody's sake, I think probably this has to be the last year with the lakers. I think LeBron will still be playing somewhere, maybe not even in the US but he's going to be playing this time next year. It's just it. But I don't think it makes sense for him to still be with the Lakers.

[B]

That's just been wild.

[C]

Did you say Not. Sorry, sorry. Logan, did you say not in the.

[D]

U.S. homie, there's, there's, I don't believe this speculation, but. Because he and formerly Maverick was involved. But Maverick's now out of this. But LeBron has been associated with this effort.

[B]

You think he's going to do a fair world tour in Saudi Arabia or Europe?

[D]

I absolutely don't. I'm just saying I am not going to ignore reporting from, well, plugged in people around the league who believe that there's at least a chance that LeBron would go play elsewhere after this season. I seriously, seriously doubt that myself. But others have made that point and so I won't dismiss it.

[B]

I will. But the most attention seeking player of the last, I don't know how long is going to leave the United States to have a farewell, give that farewell tour to Europe.

[D]

Yeah, this is why I dismiss the Europe shit anyway. Or all of this stuff. Like. But NBA superstars want to play in the NBA and in the US they don't want to play overseas where no one's paying attention.

[B]

So it's been wild to see just this identity crisis that LeBron has been going through over this summer. Right. Because it feels, honestly, I know, I know he chose size on this, but it feels like the Drake situation and he's like the Drake of this where he's just trying old tactics for a very new world and he doesn't see that it's a new world around him right now. He's trying to do the power move. Not working. He's trying to assert dominance by missing practice to go on a stream. Not really working. I think that when I Remember when, when LeBron signed with the Lakers, I remember thinking like, this is the first time LeBron has met his match in terms of leverage because you're not going to out leverage a team like the Los Angeles Lakers with, you know, the history that they have, the fan base that they have, especially at this time in your career where, you know, I don't even, I've made this point on other podcasts. I don't even think LeBron is a top 20 loved Laker of all time. I don't even think he's even in that conversation now. He's going to get the, the treatment as such, but he's not. So now I don't think he's a beloved Laker. Beloved Laker. I don't think he's a top 20 beloved Laker. No, I don't think he is. I think you, I think it sounds.

[D]

Like.

[C]

I think you crazy dog.

[B]

What I think, I think you say it's crazy and then you count down the people that might probably have more love in the city of Los Angeles than him and you'll see what I'm saying.

[D]

There are a lot of likers. There are a lot of.

[B]

Okay, okay, but no, but like I just, I, I, I, I feel like he is going to, if he keeps up with this and does it like kind of read the room. He is going to, he's going to overplay his coverage on this one and he's gonna, for the most calculated star that we have ever seen is going to have a miscalculation. What he needs to do is just bite the bullet. Say he's going either say he's going to retire or just go along with what's going to happen because you're not going to have a better retirement year than you would with the Lakers. I'm sorry, they already, we already have proof of concept. Not only with, with, with Kobe, with Kareem, with, with how they treated Worthy when he retired. They just do it the best. It's like if you retired as a Yankee. Don't overplay your hand to have a farewell tour with the team that doesn't, in a fan base that doesn't have any care about. If you say if you had like a farewell tour in like New Orleans, that's not going to play, right? Like maybe you can go to Cleveland, but Cleveland right now isn't just some trash team right now. Like you're going to have to kind of fall in line and then that's just going to be too big of a distraction to have like a LeBron farewell tour while you're trying to win a title. When every game it's like, oh, is it LeBron waving off into the sunset while he's trying to have a role on his team? It's just going to be really complicated. What he needs to do is just kind of look in the. He does. His family don't want to leave la. His people don't want to leave la. He really doesn't want to leave LA either. So he just needs to look self in the mirror, in my opinion and just look at the writing on the wall and just at least support this team into getting everything that everyone wants.

[C]

Few things.

[B]

That's I think the thing right now.

[C]

Few things. I talk about this all the time. Almost everybody at the end misreads the room. Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter if you're a player of my level or you're a player of LeBron's level. You misread the fucking room. Like, you just think, like, it's just the craziest.

[B]

You get reminded. Ain't nobody bigger than the program.

[C]

That's right. Like, whenever that time comes. Comes, I am with you in that. I would just say be cautious of. Of discounting exactly what he means to that Northeast Ohio region, though, like, with, like, sure, you know, what. What he means to. To that town and his legacy there and stuff like that. While, yes, it is kind of distracting and they are in a.

[B]

They suck if Cleveland sucked. No, it would be a different conversation.

[C]

It would be easier. I'm saying, though, even though they're a good team, don't discount what he means if he says, hey, I'm willing to come back and. And. And do it in a way that doesn't, like, hamstring our ability to win games here. But. But I agree with you in the Laker of it all, and. And maybe I didn't articulate it well. My question is, what. What do you have to do to. To continue to be a Laker and provide them the opportunity to go out and find that next star that Howard's talking about? To pair, he's gonna have to do.

[B]

What he hasn't done in a long time, which is take less money.

[C]

Well, but that's what I said. Like, I don't know. That's what I said off the top. Like, I don't know if he's willing to do that. Right? But, like, what does that look like, I guess, is my question. Like, I'm not a big cap dude. Or, like, what would he have to say? Yeah, I'll play for what, like, 20? What do you have to play? Take a minimum. Is he playing for 10? Like, what's that look like?

[D]

I mean, no one's giving him the 50 plus next summer that he's making for the Lakers right now, right? So, like, he's taking a pay cut regardless if he's still playing in the NBA next season. It's just a matter of. Of. Of how steep and.

[C]

Well, because then it becomes the whole, like, you know, are you trying to embarrass me?

[A]

Right?

[C]

Like, for someone like LeBron, right, it's like, it's palatable. I should speak for myself and not for LeBron, like, I wasn't LeBron, but, like, there's a level that is palatable, right? Like, we. We understand this. Like, hey, dude, we're older, we're. But then, like, for me, it was like, the minimum at the time that I was a free agent last, I was like, I, you know, because I didn't think I was a minimum guy and the market dictated I wasn't right. But like, for him, what is the line? And that that would be disrespectful to him. And then, you know, I, I, I, I got lost in my own thought there for a second. But I, I just, I agree with Logan. I want him to finish as a Laker. I agree with Howard in that the Lakers have to know, but the lakers clearly like LeBron's semi viable this year. But like, moving forward past that, you have to, you're going to have to find a better and younger. Better is probably the wrong way to put it, but a younger, more able, more available co star for Luca, and it's going to become to LeBron. I think you hit the nail on the head, Logan. But I would just reiterate, go down the list of dudes who, who are playing this late into their career, and I would bet you that the per. There would be a super high batting percentage of dudes who have misread the room, bro.

[B]

Michael Jordan had the perfect end to his career and was like, you know what? I think I got a shot. Yeah, I want to play Roger in preseason.

[D]

So LeBron's finishing his career in Washington is what you're telling us.

[B]

Hey, that's not a bad place, you know, if you know, you know. Sorry, bro.

[C]

Don't do that, dog. Don't do that. Don't do that, dog.

[E]

All right, let's get to this next question. Let's talk about the defending champs in this league mission to have some parody with OKC going back to back, be good or bad for the league's parody mission. Logan, take the floor.

[B]

I mean, let's just be real, man. The reason why the owners got what they wanted and stuff is so they can just stifle the players out of bread. Like, that's really all that happened, you know, like, no matter how well you slice it, because I think this league is so smart, has so many smart people. There are going to be people that are teams that win despite the rules and despite what the league does to combat it. Right? So I think it would be, I think it would be good for the league, honestly, if we can get, if OKC starts to win. Right? Like, I don't want, and I'm speaking as a fan, a longtime fan of basketball, obviously I cover it right now, but I've watched it my entire life. Life. The league does the best this is just what it is when there are dynasties, when there are teams that you continually see and players that you can continually market around and there are storylines. We saw this with the warriors, we saw this with the Bulls. We saw this with the Lakers. We saw this. The last time we had this much parody was the 70s and we didn't even have. And they was playing it on tape delay. We ain't trying to have that. Everyone has spoken about the fact that we won Dynasty. So yeah, I want to see OKC run it up. Like, I want to see that happen because I think that overall has historically been great for the game. And they're also like, I think that they speak to this generation. I've written about this. I think they speak to this generation in a way that I don't think a lot of other teams do. Like, I think the kids, I mean Cliff and V would notice. I think the Shay and J Dub, I think they speak to the kids in a very unique way. I think that the next generation loves this team and I think that they, they continue to win and bring themselves into NBA lore. Like, I think that'll be good for the game.

[D]

Seven champions in seven years. If the league wanted to make a point about, listen, we think having uber parity is great for the league. Cool. You've got a seven year sample size now. I think it's okay for a team to go back to back. It's not going to undo the fact that this is an age of unparalleled parity that the league has effectively engineered through a succession of collective bargaining agreements.

[A]

Right.

[D]

All the rules are designed now to force you to part with talent. That's why it's been really hard for teams to repeat that. You know, there's been some self inflicted wounds there. But not only that, seven champions in seven years, including markets like Oklahoma and Milwaukee and Denver. And you've had other small markets make the finals. You just had a lot of different teams make the finals, make the conference finals. Like the parody is here and it's not going away and it will endure even if the Thunder go back to back. So to Logan's point, I do think it's good for the league in general to have like a big bad. Everybody's either rooting for or against. And also to the extent that you want casual fans to start to be familiar with the best. Teams like the Thunder were still a mystery to most of the country. Hardcore NBA fans, our listeners, ringer followers all know the Thunder well and knew this was coming. But there's A whole bunch of people out there who are like, wait, Shea, who? Jalen.

[A]

Who?

[D]

There's two Jalens. There's.

[B]

Marshawn knows how to say Shay's name right now. You think he knows how to say it? Who? Think Marshawn. You think Marshawn lynch knows how to say SGA's name at this point? Maybe.

[D]

No reference. Lost him. So I just think that the Thunder winning back to back, now you've got a team that everybody can either be rooting for or against. But the public is fickle on this, right? Because as soon as the warriors became a dynasty, it was like, oh, it's overload. It's too much. It's. There's. There's. You know, the league's too predictable. We don't like the evil empire, whatever. But again, that polarization helps drive ratings to an extent because you're rooting for or against. So, yeah, I. I think the Thunder winning back to back is. Is. Is fine. I don't know that it's a net plus or net minus, but I. I think it's probably a good thing.

[B]

Hey, man, them ratings was. Was some of the best when you had LeBron James and Steph in the finals every year. I'm just, you know, just didn't do too bad.

[C]

No doubt. No need to beat a dead horse. I agree with you guys.

[B]

All right, that's the last question.

[E]

Let's close it out. MVP picks. Mvp. Tom, tell me why. Who's going to be MVP this year?

[B]

Oh, I already said mine.

[C]

We got. You got Wimy.

[B]

Got Wimby.

[D]

It's Jokic. It's.

[A]

It's.

[B]

I mean, it should have been Lyokic last year. Wait, did I say that out loud? Oops. My bad.

[A]

Excuse me. Oops.

[D]

Shay won it, and Shay deserves to win it. Last year, and I voted for Shay. I mean, I. I wrote this. So, folks, go to ringer.com you can see where Logan explained his 1B pick and I explained my Jokic pick, but my Jokic pick, I noted. You know, listen, he could be going. There's a universe where he's going for six straight right now. Like, he. He won.

[B]

What are you.

[D]

Like, what is that?

[B]

No, no, no, no, no, no. That wasn't. That wasn't a. Like, that was like. That's nuts is what I was. That. That was like.

[D]

The expression on your face was like. Like, I was, like, speaking.

[B]

No, no, that was like. Like, when LeBron went, like, to, like, seven straight finals. Like, that's crazy. If he would have six straight MVPs would be nuts.

[D]

So the, the years he's denied, like he could have won five in a row is the point. He's won three out of those five. Denied by Shea last season, denied by Embiid a couple years before that. And those were both like historic runs by Embiid and Shane. We don't need to get into the weeds. Stop that looking like that. Logan. We don't need to get in the weeds about. How did say you just had this smirk.

[B]

I was agreeing with you when you said what you said. He could have got six straight. Damn, that's crazy. It's like when Jordan could have had six straight MVPs in the 90s, bro. I would have been fucking crazy.

[D]

I think, I think, I think Embiid deserved his. I think Shay deserved his. But there's a universe where because Jokic did not really falter. Jokic has been incredible throughout the. Sometimes the Nuggets have faltered and MVP races sometimes come down to win loss records of your team too. Everything matters, including the success of your team. The Nuggets are going to be great this year. Jokic is going to be great because he's always great. Jokic never misses games. We know that. The stats are going to be just stupid, otherworldly. And the Nuggets had an incredible off season. They're going to be one of the top two teams in the regular season in the West. Like the table is set for him for sure. And it's not to say that Shea couldn't go back to back. Not to say that Luka could never breakthrough. I just, I don't believe in the Lakers and I don't think the Lakers are a top three team in the west and that's going to hurt his case. And Wemby's going to be on a lot of ballots, probably including mine. But for him to, for Wemby to win it, it's going to take more than just him like wrecking the league. Like the spurs are going to have to finish top four in the West.

[C]

I don't have much to add. I actually, I mean, Howard, I think I tend to agree with you with Jokic. He just does so much. They're going to be good. He's going to fill. But I could definitely see a world where SGA and okc because I think, I think they're going to be the number one team again in the Western Conference. And I think he's going to be upwards of 30 points for like the fourth, fifth straight year. So like I Think it'll be neck and neck. I would lean Jokic too. I think you made a great case for it. The only, the only. The only caveat would be like, how much use do you want him to. To like the last. Yeah, right. Like, at some point, his brilliance, you know, is what it is. But. But at what cost? Like in the playoffs, as he continues to age and continues to put these miles on his body. So if there was ever some sort of internal discussion about. Right, because everyone's priorities change a little bit. Right. Like we're chasing, you know, MVPs or we're chasing championships, and I think he's been brilliantly able to kind of do them simultaneously, but if there's ever a conversation organizationally that's like, hey, let's. Let's get him a little bit more rest than we normally do. Let's kind of save him up so that he's got these. These legs more in the playoffs. You know, I'm not saying that that would happen, but if it did, then I'd lean SGA more. I think I tend to agree with you, though, on. On it being Jokic. Barring that.

[D]

And they, and they did pick up Jonas Valencunas, and, and look, I, I don't think that means that suddenly, like, Jokic's minutes are going to drop precipitously, but, like, you do have a functioning center that you. Who can do a lot more than anybody else they've had in recent years. Certainly more than Dario Sarge or DeAndre George, whatever else they plugged in.

[C]

No, and, and, and, no, but, and, and like, like, it's the number one. It's that if. If you could check any box, like preseason that would. Of. Of five boxes that would ensure yourself having the best chance to win a championship. The first one, every GM would boxes. I mean, first box every GM would check is health. Like, let me take that. Give me that. Like, let me. Let's put that to bed. And so there is a world. There's a world where they, where they not minute. Restrict, but just, hey, like, be cognizant of how many minutes he's playing per game. Let's, let's. If we have a viable, you know, backup.

[B]

I want to add to that. I think that, I mean, Jokic is obviously amazing, but I do think that the MVP award is as much of a narrative award as it is a statistics based award. Um, and one of the things that hurt Yokos last year, despite Those numbers were one OKC's record, but also the propensity of Denver to just take games off late in the season. Like, they just. They. That's something that they do.

[D]

That's not narrative. That's objective fact. Logan, let me just push back on the narrative.

[B]

No, no, but it leads. But. But here's the thing, though. It leads to the narrative. When you look at the. But it leads to the narrative of why another player should get mvp. It just does. And when, say. I'll just say my Wimby pick, for instance, right? Say the Nuggets, if, like, Jokic is putting together the crazy numbers that we tend to get numb to. Just the fact. Right, True. And Wimby has a crazy year. The purse, the type of player that Wimby is and the type of narrative that could come along with that. I could see that with voter fatigue and a lot of other things going on, that he could take the narrative along with the stats to pick that award. And not just Wimy. SGA could also do that as well. Other players. I mean, we've seen, like, I know people try to say that voter fatigue isn't a thing, but that tends to happen throughout the years. If you look at the history of the league. And I just think that, like, Jokic is going to put up the great stats and he's probably going to be very deserving of mvp. I said he should have been MVP last year, but a lot of things that tend to happen with the Nuggets could work against him in ways that are fair or unfair. But I think that that could come into play as a season because, you know, like, from March on, MVP candidates are trying, are vying for position. That's really when. When the. When the award is won. Right? Is when the season is coming to a close. And I can see a world where the Nuggets are just like, you know, coasting. You know, we're in the fourth, third seed. We know we can win a title. We know we can beat anyone anywhere. We just. We could have beat OKC last year with the record that we had in the team. We're chilling. We're working to the playoffs. And then somebody undercuts Jokic because of that reason.

[C]

I think. I think that Yogic could actually have a. You said, like, voter fatigue. I think he could have voter rejuvenation this year. No, I do, because I think there.

[B]

Are a lot of people.

[C]

I think a lot of people voted for SGA was so tight and. And I think a portion of those probably begrudgingly went SGA because Lee Jokic made such a great case. I Think he could weirdly get a little voter nation this year?

[B]

For sure.

[D]

Longtime listeners, listeners and readers will know that I, I hate the whole voter fatigue term. I've written an entire piece a few years back why it's. But I won't go into that rant here today. I'll just say that Jokic won years that he deserved to win it. There was at least one of those that I thought he probably didn't deserve to win it. But the guy's won three of the last five, and if he wins this one, it's four out of six. And if he wins four out of six, how is that voter fatigue? And if voter fatigue just means, well, we don't want to give them to him back to back to back. Like, we've had plenty of back to back winners, including Jokic, including Giannis. Like, it's just, it's silly. I there. Every year we've got a bunch of superstars who are having outstanding seasons and then you have to parse it. And the fact is The Thunder won 18 more games in the than the Nuggets last year. That was the deciding factor. As much as anything, 18 games is a fucking huge amount.

[B]

I love Howard said he wasn't going to do the rant and did the rant I did that was like the 22nd version, text, textbook how. Read Howard Beck and read that piece. All right, you talked a lot of shit about Los Angeles and we are going to be live from Los Angeles next week.

[D]

Well, live ish.

[B]

Live ish.

[D]

Not a live show.

[B]

It's going to be Spotify Ringer core week next week.

[C]

Doing live shows without your boy.

[B]

Well, you, well you, you could. You want to stay up till one in the morning on Tuesday?

[C]

Negative.

[B]

After the, after the Lakers because you're, you know, you have an open invite. You will be there. Okay, so on Tuesday, me and Howard Beck will be live from Los Angeles after the Warriors Lakers opening night. Cliff and Victoria will also be there. And then next Friday, it will be all three of us, me and Howard live from Los Angeles. And Raja beaming in from wherever the hell he's going to be. But make sure you guys tap in. It's great to be back, man.

[E]

It was.

[B]

This is great, man. It was. Miss seeing your faces, you know. Yeah, it's been. It was good to get back in the lab with you guys. That was another edition of Real Ones. Know the it is. It's Loki. Boo. Not the two. Howard Beck, Raja Bell, Big vv, Victoria and Cliff holding it down. Every week we will See you guys next week. Ah, all the shits by.

[E]

Foreign.

[A]

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