Nuggets Shock Thunder in Game 1 Victory. Plus, Knicks Defeat Celtics in OT Thriller | Real Ones

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ringer NBA Show Episode: Nuggets Shock Thunder in Game 1 Victory. Plus, Knicks Defeat Celtics in OT Thriller | Real Ones
Release Date: May 6, 2025

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Introduction to an Exciting Playoff Season

Raja Bell ([00:51]) kicks off the discussion by expressing his excitement about the current playoff season, deeming it "one of the best playoffs that we've had in the last decade." He highlights the unpredictability of each game, setting the stage for an in-depth analysis of the recent matchups.

Nuggets vs. Thunder Game 1 Analysis

Raja Bell ([02:57]) introduces the primary focus: the Nuggets' stunning victory over the Thunder in Game 1. He emphasizes the Thunder's questionable fouling strategy, particularly their decision to foul Jokic multiple times despite being up by three points. Bell critiques the early fouling, stating, "You're up 3. The worst they could do is tie the game, just get this game over with" ([02:57]).

Howard Beck ([03:17]) expands on Raja's points, discussing the Thunder's potential mismanagement in crucial moments. He argues that Oklahoma City "totally fumbled the bag," showcasing inexperience and poor decision-making in the final minutes ([05:25]).

Raja Bell ([07:35]) acknowledges the Nuggets' resilience, commending their veteran leadership and defensive prowess. He notes, "The Nuggets have the biggest advantage here is that they've been there before," highlighting their ability to remain poised under pressure ([09:15]).

Howard Beck ([10:13]) delves deeper into the Thunder's shortcomings, criticizing their on-glass performance ("minus 20 on the glass last night") and turnovers, which disadvantaged them further ([10:13]-[09:15]).

Raja Bell ([12:18]) and Cliff ([12:18]) give credit to the Nuggets' strategic plays, particularly Aaron Gordon's impressive three-pointers, which were pivotal in sealing the game. They discuss Jokic's dominant performance and the Nuggets' effective zone defense, praising Coach Adelman's adjustments ([09:35]-[14:25]).

Impact of Veteran Leadership and Team Experience

Howard Beck ([16:35]) and Raja Bell ([22:09]) explore the significance of veteran presence in the Nuggets' lineup. They argue that the Nuggets' seasoned players provide a psychological and tactical edge over the Thunder, who are relatively inexperienced in high-stakes playoff scenarios ([16:35]-[22:09]).

Cliff ([23:47]) compares the Nuggets' leadership to iconic NBA figures like LeBron James and Kobe Bryant, suggesting that a seasoned core can adapt and overcome young teams through strategic adjustments and mental fortitude ([23:47]-[25:29]).

Knicks vs. Celtics OT Thriller Breakdown

Raja Bell ([27:44]) shifts focus to the Knicks' overtime victory against the Celtics. He criticizes the Celtics' over-reliance on three-pointers, noting that "19 of 20 shots in the third quarter are three pointers" led to missed opportunities and a lack of offensive balance ([27:44]).

Howard Beck ([28:24]) echoes Raja's sentiments, pointing out the Celtics' complacency when holding a significant lead. He emphasizes that shooting excessively from beyond the arc without diversifying offensive strategies can be detrimental, especially against a gritty team like the Knicks ([28:24]-[32:35]).

Cliff ([33:40]) commends the Knicks for their defensive tenacity and timely plays, such as Miles Bridges' crucial assists and defensive stops. He contrasts the Knicks' aggressive approach with the Celtics' passive style, highlighting how New York capitalized on Boston's softness in critical moments ([33:40]-[36:20]).

Raja Bell ([36:20]) and Howard Beck ([37:16]) further dissect the Celtics' defensive shortcomings, noting that while the team is offensively robust, their inability to project toughness defensively left them vulnerable to the Knicks' relentless pressure ([36:20]-[37:16]).

Strategic Insights and Future Implications

Howard Beck ([40:14]) discusses the importance of situational awareness and adaptability in playoff basketball. He praises the Nuggets' ability to adjust tactics on the fly, contrasting it with the Thunder's rigidity and lack of experience in managing game-ending scenarios ([40:14]-[43:03]).

Cliff ([43:03]) and Raja Bell ([44:27]) debate the Celtics' offensive strategy, questioning whether their focus on three-point shooting is sustainable against teams that can disrupt their rhythm. They argue that without a balanced offensive approach, the Celtics are susceptible to upsets by teams like the Knicks, who exploit defensive lapses ([43:03]-[44:27]).

Howard Beck ([45:02]) reinforces the idea that the Celtics need to maintain their offensive aggressiveness and not succumb to a purely perimeter-oriented game plan. He emphasizes the necessity of balancing three-point attempts with traditional offensive drives to prevent teams from capitalizing on open shots ([45:02]-[49:51]).

Conclusion: A Playoff Season of Strategy and Skill

Raja Bell ([49:51]) wraps up the discussion by highlighting the Knicks' emergence as a formidable playoff contender, challenging more established teams like the Celtics. He praises Jalen Brunson's clutch performances and the Knicks' ability to execute under pressure, suggesting that Boston will need to stay vigilant and adapt their strategies to maintain their dominance ([49:51]-[75:46]).

Howard Beck ([74:57]-[75:08]) concludes by emphasizing the importance of seizing opportunities and rising to the occasion in the playoffs. He lauds the Nuggets' and Knicks' strategic plays and veteran leadership, setting the tone for an exhilarating postseason ahead ([74:57]-[75:08]).

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Notable Quotes:

• Raja Bell ([02:57]): "You're up 3. The worst they could do is tie the game, just get this game over with."
• Howard Beck ([05:25]): "They totally fumbled the bag. And it speaks to like it's what we thought coming into the series could be an Achilles heel for them."
• Raja Bell ([09:15]): "The Nuggets have the biggest advantage here is that they've been there before."
• Howard Beck ([10:13]): "Not only did they do it in the front court to Jokic multiple times, they did that shit 90ft from the basket at least twice."
• Raja Bell ([27:44]): "When you hear 19 of 20 shots in the third quarter are three pointers, what comes to mind? 45 missed threes."
• Cliff ([35:29]): "The Knicks just made plays when they had to, which is kind of the story of their team."
• Howard Beck ([40:14]): "They do know what they want to do as a team, right? Otherwise he doesn't run up there and do that right away."

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This episode of The Ringer NBA Show offers a comprehensive analysis of pivotal Game 1 matchups in the NBA playoffs, focusing on strategic decisions, player performances, and the impact of experience and leadership. The panelists provide insightful commentary on how veteran teams like the Nuggets leverage their playoff experience to overcome younger, less seasoned opponents, while also critiquing the Celtics' offensive strategies in their narrow loss to the Knicks. As the playoffs progress, the discussions underscore the importance of adaptability, defensive toughness, and clutch performances in determining the eventual champions.

Transcript

[Logan Murdoch]

You're listening to the Ringer NBA show presented by FanDuel, America's number one sportsbook has made it easier than ever to get in on the action during an NBA playoff game, even after tip off. Just look for the live SGP tab on the FanDuel Sportsbook app and build your bet slip. Then sit back, relax and track the outcome of your parlay right in the app. If you don't already have it, download the FanDuel app today to make every moment more the Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and help lines available and listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus and present in select states. Gambling problem. Call 1-800- GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com.

[Raja Bell]

What'S Poppin? Real ones. Logan Murdoch here, Roger Bell there. Howard Beckham the motherfucking cut Cliff on the boards. Victoria on the video. Guys, the playoffs have been one word or two words. Awesome. I like after last night I think this is I I'm ready to go out on a limb and I know Howard loves when I go out on limbs. But I'm going to say this is one of the the best playoffs that we've had in the last decade or so. Especially after the in the last couple of years where the playoffs have kind of been, eh. Every series is. It has its own storyline and has its own level of excitement from the upsets in the Eastern Conference with the Pacers and we're going to talk about the Knicks in a minute but I never know what's going to happen on a night to night basis and I think that transitions perfectly into the first game. We're going to talk about Nuggets Thunder, which was just cinema in all ways, shapes and forms and it was capped off by Aaron Gordon three pointer but the game was won in the last three minutes. Let's get to the biggest story first and I want to get Roger's opinion on this. The biggest story out of this is the fouling up three by the Oklahoma City Thunder continuing to foul while they're up three in the ball game. They did that twice in the last two minutes where they fouled Jokic up three. They get Jokic out of the game because he gets, he gets subbed out and then they foul Aaron Gordon and then gets Jokic back into the game after another stoppage of play. And then you see Chet Holmgren missed two free throws that he had wanted absolutely no part of. And then, then we get to the Aaron Gordon shot. Roger, my question to you is, where do you fall in the ledger of fouling that early? Because in my mind, conventional was, you're up 3. The worst they could do is tie the game, just get this game over with. And it felt like Oklahoma City unnecessarily prolonged the game, in my view. What did you think of the call?

[Howard Beck]

Yeah, well, I'm really confused because when you said we were going to come on here and talk about the story of the series so far, I thought it was going to clearly be Russ. And so you obviously threw me for a loop when we went into, like, the fouling situation, but I will participate. No, all jokes aside, not yoke, it's 40 and 20.

[Raja Bell]

We're talking about Russ, baby.

[Howard Beck]

We're talking about. He gets credit. We're talking about Russ, damn it.

[Cliff]

What, are you just starting the daily Russ Update podcast with Rajaval?

[Raja Bell]

That's in the works. Relax. That's in the works.

[Howard Beck]

Anyone? Listen, if you need that. Yeah, usually. Look, man, I get it. He got up at the podium and he doubled down on. On or Dag note. Is that how you say his name? Dag note. I say Coach Dax, Coach Daggs, that. That's their philosophy, and they stick with it, but they were wrong for that. Like, the time, you know, when you're. When you're analytically driven, there's got to be someone there that. That can marry the. The human element, the. The situational, like, awareness element. I've been here. Element with what you want to do analytically, and I'm not going to. They should work together. So I say that. To say that if you're at, like, five seconds, six seconds, where there's not really time for the team that has the ball to get a second possession, you foul them, they foul you. And now they got, like, two seconds to get another shot off. I got it. But when you're talking about 13 seconds to go, like, that's a lot of basketball that's going to go back and forth if we're assuming everyone's going to foul as soon as. As soon as the ball comes into play. Not to mention that someone. Anytime you're leaving a timeout, someone should be preparing the team for the. The. The. The multiple scenarios, right? Like, when we're coming out of this huddle, like, you know, if we get an easy bucket here and Jokic is still standing over on us over on the sideline, and we're up 3 again, we're not fouling. Like, you know what I Mean, like, if he goes to the line and makes both, um, you know, and Jokic comes in the game, you know, maybe we're back to it, but. But, like, it didn't seem like they were really prepared for the situation, and someone has to be responsible for that. So while I understand that your philosophy, and I'm sorry for, like, taking up a bunch of airtime here, but, like, that's the wrong. That's the wrong play in that moment, with that much time left on the clock and the situation that was unfolding there, that. That was not the right. Right way to approach that.

[Cliff]

He.

[Raja Bell]

He out thunk himself, huh, Howard?

[Cliff]

Possibly. It was interesting. So I was reading this morning Darnell Mayberry from the Athletic was at the game among. Among their army that they. I think they had at the game. And when he. I don't know exactly how the question was posed, but he has these quotes early in the story from Jalen Williams and Shay Gilgeous Alexander sitting there on the podium together, where somebody had raised. Maybe it was Darnell, maybe somebody else had raised the question about should you have stuck so religiously essentially, to this philosophy of fouling up three, especially when the second one allowed Jokic to come back in the game. He'd been out because of foul trouble, and fouling intentionally let him come back in. And I think that was the context for this quote. But where Jalen Williams says, damn, I didn't think about that. And then Shay, sitting right next to him, says, me either. It's a good point. And I don't know if that was about the Jokic piece of it or about just the general. Just whatever. The whole situation backfired. But it seems clear that in real time, and by real time, I mean in the immediate aftermath in the game, of the game, dagnaut, might. Might still be sticking to it and saying, like, this is just what we do. And. And, you know, that's. That's just how we. We're always going to approach it. We're going to be consistent. But his players certainly are kind of sitting there going, huh, maybe. Maybe we didn't do this well. And then Caruso, who gives the foul on Aaron Gordon, did it too quickly. And Caruso admits, you know, I probably could have let him dribble a couple more times, run off more clock. It just seems like whatever the pressure of the moment, the intensity of the moment, the. The desperate, not the desperation, but it's. It's like. It's tense, like you've just given away. They had like, you know, 14 point lead or whatever at some point in the third, and here it is, you're just trying to hang on and uh. Are those brain farts by the coach, by Caruso, by everybody? I don't know. I'll leave the basketball, you know, strategizing to, to people who know it better than I do. But it, it does seem like they, they kind of gagged it.

[Howard Beck]

They, they totally fumbled the bag. And it speaks to like it's what we thought coming into the series could be an Achilles heel for them. Right. Like I wrote, I wrote down like inexperience and unseasoned is what that seemed down the stretch of that game. Right. And so again, 12 seconds to go, you're going to foul. The, the reason I don't like the foul there, and I'll just lay it out for you, is because they're going to shoot a quick shot, they're going to try to get a shot up because they want a chance at that offensive rebound, right? So even if they make that three, you've got the ball with a timeout in the front court with what, six seconds to go. That's a lot of time for you to get the last shot in that game. The Alex Caruso one to me is really in excusable. And I would argue with anyone that says, hey, fouling and allowing them to get their best player on the court is the sound and prudent move there. But I digress. Overall, in the last quarter of that game, they had an inexperienced, unseasoned meltdown. There were multiple times that they fouled up. I don't know, was it nine or ten? With about three minutes to go in the game they had, they were sending Denver to the free throw line over and over again. Your best friend in that situation is the clock. It's ticking. You make them work. Even if Jokic hits those tough ass shots with seven seconds on the shot clock, you come down and take 24 off of it. And it's very, very difficult for them to win that game unless you keep stopping the clock and giving them free money, which are the free throw points. Not only did they do it in the front court to Jokic multiple times, they did that shit 90ft from the basket at least twice. Those are possessions that take zero time off the clock.

[Raja Bell]

Yeah, they just had a meltdown, Rajan. There were so many different intricacies to the points that you're making when you talk about a veteran led group. Like I was looking at the clips this morning and then you see just such veteran Savvy from not only the offensive rebounds that they got, like Aaron Gordon getting like monster rebounds down the stretch and just fighting extra for the ball.

[Cliff]

But.

[Raja Bell]

But even little nuances like when Russ got the rebound and just stopped and got fouled. Right. Just different things like that. And you could see that down the stretch of the game where. That's where the Nuggets have the biggest advantage here is that they've been there before. And then you can. There's. You can't quantify that with data and analytics. The been there before this and Nuggets were so poised. I think they, they were down 9 with 2:43 to go. And. And if you're down 9 with 2 2:43 to go, you have to be damn near perfect down the stretch in, in your offensive execution. And they were that and more. Roger, you.

[Howard Beck]

Do you know what you're. You know what they were. Logan, you're right. But do you know what you're praying for if you're down 9 with 2:43 to go?

[Raja Bell]

Clock stoppages. Free throws and free throws. Yes, you're.

[Howard Beck]

But. But that, that is the clock stoppage, right? Because just a general clock stoppage. That's what. That's the clock stoppage you want. That's perfect. I get to the line, I get two uncontested shots, maybe three depending on the situation. And the clock is not running. So like yeah, they executed their behind off and at the same time like Oklahoma City just showed their. Their youth and inexperience in that moment. That was. That game was. That game was over essentially.

[Cliff]

Are we also. Hold on. All of this is. Is legit, of course, but are we also in the midst of all this, are we selling short the fact that the Denver Nuggets are defending champs or not defending champs, but champs just two years ago and who we've all written off still have something left here like that they took down the clips. Aaron Gordon with the miracle dunk, obviously key in that series. And then Aaron Gordon with this incredible three and he's a capable three point shooter.

[Raja Bell]

San Jose, stand up.

[Cliff]

San Jose, stand up. Come on. Thank you. Logan referencing a text chain from very late last night. No, I gotta, I gotta, I gotta. I gotta cape for my San Jose guys. There aren't that many of us around. Aaron Gordon may literally be the only San Jose born player in the league or sounds a native in the league. But like tremendous, tremendous moment and like the second one for Gordon and for the Nuggets. There's good reason that we have all Kind of diminished them and written them off. And there's good reason. The Thunder have been favored since October to win the West. But in the midst of all of this and, you know, parsing Dagnald's coaching and intentional fouling strategies and philosophies and analytics and everything else, like, we should just at least take a moment to note the fact that that was an incredible comeback by The Nuggets from 14 down in the second half and a great shot by Gordon, who now has two just absolute awesome plays in this postseason.

[Howard Beck]

My bad. I. Yeah, I would. I mean, look, you're. You're right. You're right, Howard. They. They. They played great. They stuck with it. They kept hooping. They got big contributions. Like, Murray carried him early. You know, this is what you want your. Your co stars to do, right? Like, Murray carried him early. Gordon closed with. With Jokic late. Jokic was phenomenal. You know, Russ was great. Brown played great. Watson. Peyton Watson. Is that his name? He's a. He's a nice length, energy, like, defensive piece out there. I got to give Adelman some credit. The zone late. For a team that doesn't have a true. Like. Like. Like Williams has to play better. Like, he's just. He's just got to play. He's got to play better. But they didn't have a true. That was the other thing we worried about with them a little bit. Like, you had asked me this, I think, Logan, like, do I trust those guys in these moments? And I told you that I would. Well, you know, like, last night, I gave me a little bit of pause until they. Until someone redeems themselves. But the zone was. Was. Was a. Was a good thing. And the wrinkle that I loved about the zone was that he put Jamal Murray in the middle of the zone. So, like, you know, and the only answer that OKC had for the zone was to run the middle of their zone up and screen the outside of the top side of the zone. So, like the. The top defender on Shay Joel, just right hand, they would screen the outside of that. Theoretically, if that's a big. Like, if it's Jokic or. Or even Aaron Gordon, they have to be in that kind of drop coverage, which lets SGA kind of come off into a soft spot. And, you know, he's a midi king, so, like, that's dangerous. But he put Jamal Murray in the middle of that zone, and so now Jamal is coming up with the screener, and it's essentially like he's standing right there as a switch, which doesn't gain any advantage for sga. Right. And then he bumps back as the guard. I thought that was brilliant. Like, it was a little wrinkle. I thought it was really cool. So I have to give him some credit, too. I'm gonna say all of that and tell you, I still think OKC fumbled the bag. Like, I. I think that game should have been over.

[Raja Bell]

And I mean, most of that I feel like comes with the. I think Howard just talked about this, but what is the growing inevitability of a team like Denver in this sense? And despite everything that happened this season, they do have that institutional knowledge and they have that institutional, just grit. Right. And a lot of dudes that have been there before. And that's what scares me about this series right now. Like what I wouldn't be like just seeing game one, and I don't want to overreact here because Oklahoma City could very well win this series and they're favor to win these series. And quite frankly, they should win this series. But when I saw that game Raja, I really was like, could this be one of those series where The Nuggets teach OKC a lesson and it could be a 6 gamer instead of like this where they do just take control of the series because they have that advantage as a veteran group. But not only a veteran group. You have a veteran group with a guy like Jokic, who we'll talk about singularly in a second, but they have that institutional knowledge that could probably beat an OKC who just hasn't been there before. Don't know what they don't know.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah, I mean, you could definitely make a case for that. You know, not. Not just Murray, Gordon and Jokic, but, you know, Brown, Russ has a bunch of experience. Like, they have pieces over there. You could definitely make a case for that. Now I'll just tell you this. If OKC can't at least make it competitive on the glass, that's going to be a problem for them. They were. They were minus 20 on the damn glass last night. That's crazy work. If. You know, if. So if. If Denver is able to keep the pace on the glass and take care of the ball a little better. Like, they gave up 23 off of turnovers last night. So, like, you're gifting a lot of those guys that we're worried about in bid situations. Offensively, you're gifting them transition points in a lot of instances because you're turning the ball over. If Denver can control that and make sga, like, have to do all the work, and they don't get those others to show up. Okc, that is. There is a huge problem in okc.

[Raja Bell]

You know, I'm. I'm fast. I'm just fascinated by the series already. But like, that nugget right there of, you know, when it comes to this point of the postseason, really doesn't matter what record it is, how well you're playing in a given moment. And the Nuggets seem to have a groove. Not their groove back, but a groove. Howard, I want to talk about Jokic really quickly and just what this overall game means. Just, I'm thinking about the first thing that comes to mind is obviously the MVP case, and that's already. And I don't want to relitigate that because that is. That is already done and voted for, and we'll see what the results are at a point in time. And it kind of is what it is at this point, but is it possible for Yoko just to be the most memorable player of this season? Like, even if I don't know, that's not an award necessarily, but that is a distinction nonetheless.

[Cliff]

Well, I mean, I think. I think, you know, our guy, Bill Simmons has said at times that MVP to some extent is, you know, the guy who. The story. Who. Who is the story of the season, who. Who was the season about? And, you know, it's one of a thousand ways we can frame the MVP discussions in real time and also sometimes retrospectively. Right? And I think, look, let's put MVP to the side for a minute, because it mucks up everything in terms of the way we discuss things anyway. Although, by the way, it does, it does occur to me in the moment, and I do love chaos. If the Nuggets win this series and Shay, we, like Shay, is almost a certainty to win mvp, right? Like Bon Temps late season straw poll has not missed yet because it's the sample size of mostly the actual voters. Shay's gonna win it, so it's gonna be, you know, I think we're getting. What other awards are due this week? Executive of the year. So I think, like, next. Next week, we're probably gonna get MVP in all NBA, and this series will surely still be going. And Shay's gonna be announced as mvp. And are they gonna be down in the series? Are they gonna be on the verge of getting ousted by Jokic? Is this going to cause utter mayhem with the MVP discussion all over again? Yes, of course it will. It will be hell to pay for.

[Raja Bell]

For.

[Cliff]

For everybody. Fine. It'll be entertaining. But that's on the table for the moment. It all is only 1 0, but it's on the table for the moment. Jokish in terms of him being the story of the season, I think when you're on a 50 win team, which is part of what tamped down his MVP support, it's hard to be the story of the season. Even though what he was doing on a night to night basis and in totality was as usual, historic and incredible and dominant and there were just some absolute, just batshit crazy games and stat lines that he put up and he had an A phenomenal, you know, first game of this series last night with you know, 42, 22 and 6 and including a couple block shots and against a front court that presumably was put together to try to slow him down. That was the point of the exercise of getting Hartenstein. So to your question, Logan. I'll, I'll, I'll put it this way. If the Nuggets win this series, turning the MVP discussion on its head, making us reassess the Nuggets entirely, making us wonder once more, well, ah man, if, if Malone and Calvin Booth were so bad at their, their jobs, why, why are the Nuggets going back to the conference finals with the team that Calvin Booth presided over and that Malone was coaching up until two weeks ago?

[Raja Bell]

Is Roger sending emails to the, to the, to the podcast now? Is he doing it? Are you doing the sending the ghost emails to the pod?

[Cliff]

But it's I like I, for, for just whatever narrative purposes, discussion purposes, just fun to consider purposes. And your question, Logan, like, yeah, Jokic can, can make himself the story of the right now. The Thunder have been the story of the season. 68 wins, likely MVP and Shea breakthrough, fun, young team, really super deep, blah blah blah all that stuff. If the Nuggets upset them in this series, we will talk about this whole season very, very differently. And we will talk about the Nuggets very differently.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah. Yeah, I, I mean what do I want to say? It's not really. Well, first of all, I, I, I agree with him. I agree with you, Howard. I just don't think like look, we can't, I'm a big don't move the goalpost on me guy. So like even if he beats, even if he beats Shay the regular season, like look man, you have 50 wins. Like it is what it is. But I just, something just clicked into my head which I thought was really, really interesting because I was processing what you had said, Howard, about, you know, Williams and SGA at the, @ the Podium, answering questions. And it kind of took me back last night to a timeout, and it was on Denver's bench, and Jokic was basically running the timeout. Not to discredit anything that. That Adelman was doing. Right. Like, but that's just his level of experience, know how like. And understanding of the situations that he had that all under control as the player. You know, coaches are still doing their job, but I get the sense that, like, a lot of this is. That's what's going on in Denver. Like, the players understand it, the coach is still doing his job, but the players got it. They don't have to. And we're in a situation with the younger group with, With. With okc where they are still kind of being led by the coach. Does that make sense? Like, they're just. Their coach led at this point. Right. Like, SGA is the dude, but strategically, situationally, hey, what are we going to do when we get into. Into these minutes? It's a coaching thing versus, you know, once teams get to a certain point. Yeah, the coach is going to say it, but we already fucking know it.

[Raja Bell]

Yeah. How. At what point, though? Because that's a very interesting distinction, Roger. At what point do. Does a player get to that and should they? Because I feel like if I look at Minnesota, for instance, like, I feel like Ant has more of a command on the offense where that quote just wouldn't come out of Minnesota. Whereas, like, here SGA maybe is it. I don't know if it speaks to. And I'm speculating if it speaks to his passiveness or what, but it's definitely a distinction. That. That is interesting. Do you think that SGA needs to learn to get to that point? Or like, what does that say about the team if they're so. So coach led? Cause in the NBA, it's usually a partnership.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah, I think. I think that just speaks to being. Being like less seasoned and less experienced, you know, in the moments I don't. I don't have the stats in front of me. But Jokic has been doing this a long time and has been deep into the playoffs multiple times. He's a champion. So, you know, that just comes with those experiences. I think to some degree. The fact that they ran up and fouled immediately and Caruso was like, man, I should have let. They do know what they want to do as a team, right? Otherwise he doesn't run up there and do that right away. That speaks to like, yo, we understand what we want to, but situational awareness is a whole nother thing, right? And understanding like you know, the nuances of being in situation with 12 seconds versus 5 seconds and do we like all of those come into play? Once you've been in those situations before and you've experienced them and you can start to shape your understanding of what we do to produce wins versus what we do that created losses.

[Cliff]

Like, we've all seen like moments where like, you know, LeBron, you know, I mean, there was the, there was the, the almost infamous one. LeBron, like overruling David Blatt or whatever. Right. But like, forget like that particular one, but LeBron and Blatt, LeBron and Tyloo, LeBron and whoever he's with at a given moment. Kobe was at this level and Jordan was at this level. And like so many of the all time greats where you have the ability to push back at the coach or, or just make the very emphatic suggestion in the moment or have the moment like you were referring to Raja with Jokic on the bench being really demonstrative and really like, this is what we got to do. I didn't, I, I couldn't hear the exact details of what he was doing, but it was clear, like he's getting his guys together, getting them on the same page. And when you have a little bit more cachet when you've been the guy for a while, you know, Shai is about to probably get his first mvp and maybe they will win a championship and maybe they won't. But this time next year, Shai is going to have a different presence and a different, just mental bank of memories of experiences of things they've done and not done and whatever. And he will be different probably then like he's clearly a forceful personality and has imprinted himself on that team. So yeah, at a different moment in his career, in his timeline, he may be doing the same thing that we're talking about with Jokic and that we've seen again with Kobe, Michael, LeBron, whoever, where you're saying, hold up, hold up, hold up. We need to not foul right away in this context. And you don't specifically have to say, remember, chill.

[Raja Bell]

Respectfully chill. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Okay, let's talk some. Let's talk Nick Celtics. Anything. Any more does anyone want to say about this series and that we're missing before?

[Cliff]

We only, only just that in this case and in the conversation we're about to have in all of these cases, we need to not overreact, which we're going to do anyway. But we love a good game. One upset. And we love a, like, there's nothing we, the collective public, media, fans, everybody do more predictably than every game is suddenly a referendum on everything until the next game when things flip around and then it's a referendum in the other direction.

[Howard Beck]

Totally.

[Raja Bell]

Yeah.

[Howard Beck]

Okay. Fans should, OKC fans shouldn't be in a panic. Like, again, like they had, they had a real opportunity to close that. You were sitting in a catbird seat. You just, I mean, you let it go.

[Raja Bell]

Sitting in the catbird seat. That's, that's, that's, that's a bar.

[Howard Beck]

That's a Roger Bell bar, bro. That's. That's one of the old dudes to.

[Raja Bell]

God the Ringer NBA show is brought to you by FanDuel. The NBA Playoffs are finally here, and there's no better way to be a part of the action than with FanDuel, America's number one sportsbook. After another competitive season, the top teams are ready to battle their way through the playoff bracket in hopes of taking home the championship. And if you think you know how it's all going to go down, then make those predictions pay off with fan Duel and NBA profit boots. Simply make your bet, activate your boost and go for even bigger winnings. Let's take a look at the slate tonight. Pacers, Cavs. I'm going to take the Cavs and the outright win and I'm going to take the over and points, assist and rebounds for Tyrese Halliburton. And then I'm with the Warriors. Timberwolves. I'm going to take the Timberwolves and I'm going to take the over on the Timberwolves. And I'm going to take the over on Anthony Edwards. Points, rebounds and assists. And I'm going to take the under on Steph Curry. Points. Wow. Don't just be a spectator this Postseason. Head to FanDuel.com Ringer MBA to download America's number one sports book and make every moment more must be 21 years and older and present in select states or 18 and older and present in DC. Opt in required bonus issued is non withdrawable Profit boost tokens restrictions apply including any token expiration and max wager amount. See [e-mail] gambling column. Call 1-800-gambler or visit rg-help.com okay, let's talk Nick Celtics Raja. When you hear 19 of 20 shots in the third quarter are three pointers, what comes to mind? 45 missed threes. I mean, comes to mind, sir.

[Howard Beck]

Like you just, you just. Yeah, man, I mean, look, I want to. I want to be. I want to be fair to them. I don't want to be the dude that completely overreacts to it. But, like, it suggests that you just thought, like, because you were the Celtics and you were the, you know, reigning champs and you beat them every time you played them this year, that the game was over and you just took your foot off the gas. That's what you did. Like, you just came out and you thought it was cake. You thought it was cute, and you kind of fell asleep at the wheel in the third quarter, and before you knew it, they were on your neck. I mean, that's what it speaks to. I mean, that's outrageous.

[Raja Bell]

It's acid 9. Asset 10. Ass 11. Asset 12. Acid 13. Maybe acid 14. 15. One thing that Chuck said, though, post game, that I want to get Raj's point on and then Howard's. He said that no team in the modern NBA has a plan B of action when there's no adjustments. Right. I don't. I think that was maybe an oversimplification, but in this case, I think it really was a good point to the Celtics, where it seems like they're going to triple down on three pointers. For better or worse. We've seen that over the last few seasons, how that's bit them in the ass. It was very jarring watching the Celtics down the stretch of that game because the lane was so wide open. You have Tatum on cat, who, by the way, we're going to talk about his defense in a minute, which was. But you have the. You have the lane wide open and you just won't take it, and you keep shooting yourself out of rhythm. When you hear the plan B argument, what do you think about that in the modern NBA, or is that just a Celtics thing over the last few years?

[Howard Beck]

Yeah, I think that's more a Celtics thing. I kind of feel what he's saying. I. You know, I think that's, you know, that's a roster construction, the way the way guys are taught to play now kind of conversation. Like, I think what he's referencing, and Shaq usually references this because, you know, of what he was able to accomplish and who he was, is that, like, if those aren't going down, we got to pummel, you know, we got to try to pummel the paint and get. And get grimy in there, but, like, they're not a ton of those guys anymore, so. So I think organically, you're not going to have as many teams that can switch from the kind of pace and space and shooting threes to, like, let's go down on the block and get dirty. Just because the amount of guys that can do that don't exist. Having said that, you know, so I don't all the way agree, but I see where he's coming from with that. There are teams that can do it, though. Like, Denver is one of those teams that can do that. You know, they. Jokic. It's crazy. Like, Milwaukee at times can do that because of what Giannis is. Like, when you've got that for the Rockets, even though they don't shoot a great percentage, like, when they want to, they can. They can just get you into spots with Shangun and let him go to work. There are teams that have the ability to do that. And this is where I thought Boston and where, like, Tatum and Brown, and this is going to sound crazy where they can continue to evolve, right? Like, you're shooting all these threes, and that's your style of play. And I'm not saying to you, hey, I definitively think you need to change it. I don't think they'll shoot that poorly again. Right? But there are times where, all right, we're not making these threes and we can't get to the basket, which is absurd, by the way, because Jalen Brunson, if there's one thing that we'd say he's probably lacking in, what would it be?

[Cliff]

Defense.

[Raja Bell]

Defense.

[Howard Beck]

And you got that motherfucker on a switch multiple times, and none of you went at him. He had four fouls.

[Raja Bell]

It was so many step backs, bro. I was like, oh, I got Brunson on. I'm going to step back. Oh, I'm going to really get him with this step back. I'm going to.

[Howard Beck]

I'm about to blow my shit right now. But, yeah, so there were. There were so many of those. And he had four fouls, right? But. But, like, where you could be better is, like, don't give him the ball at the top with the live dribble. What do you think he's going to do if he already wants to do it? Like, if he already wants to shoot the step back and you give him the ball at the top of the fucking key where there's a help defender on the right side and a help defend on the left side and Jalen Brunson's in front of him. What do you think he's going to do most of the time? He's going to shoot a step back, get them to Shaq's point in an area of the floor below the free throw line, whether that's, you know, on the block or you got a pop to catch and you're, you know, roughly 15ft away. And make them work mid post, make them work somewhere that gets them to the rim. You have to do that for them.

[Raja Bell]

And also to be fair, though Raja Porzingis was out of the game. Who would be, who would theoretically be the one to punish them, right? Because they were dealing. I think they're, they're only big was Al Horford and Al Ford's like, AL Horford's like 87 years old. And I don't think he's posting up and controlling the game. But like, I think there's also another anecdote. Just go to the Cup. Like, just go to the cup. Be aggressive.

[Howard Beck]

But listen, Jalen Brunson, I mean, again, this is why I found it like Jalen Brown tried to get to the Cup. Like, he had a tough move, you know, it was a tough miss late with the left hand. He thought he got fouled and he ran into the support. Like, I'm not arguing whether that was a foul or not, but I liked the play. Like your head down, getting on top of the rim. He does it for me, like in a more timely way than Tatum does sometimes. Right now you might say to me it's because he couldn't throw it in the ocean last night. And that might be true, but like he was putting his head down sometimes and going, jason Tatum couldn't get by Brunson. He tried multiple times and then he, and then he gets to the step back. So that's why I'm saying when I see that I have to do something, there's got to be something. And maybe this is what Shaq's alluding to. Plan B. From a coaching perspective, Dog, where I'm getting them touches isn't working right now. So do I have anything to get these remarkable offensive players? Because they are remarkable touches in another area that might be more advantageous for us. And that was lacking last night.

[Cliff]

It's, it's interesting the last couple of years under, under Missoula where like the three point discussion is just a constant, constant thing all the way through them winning the championship a year ago. And I think to an extent, when you win it, it's like, you know, what, like, what are we going to question now? Yeah, they seem over land on a Missoula seems, you know, for a guy who in so many other ways seems like very old school in his in his approach, like, he's obviously a younger coach. He is of this age, but, and of this era. But like he, he is, he is all in on the three point philosophy. And they've got guys who can make a ton of them. And it's, it's not that they're just living and dying with the three. Like, it's oversimplified. I don't want to, you know, sound like Chuck and Shaq who are still trying to live in the 90s most of the time. Like this, this is, this is the NBA today. And yes, you can, you can win games. Even, even teams that are not as great can, can win games sometimes just by like just drowning you in threes. Right? That's not what the Celtics do. They do take a lot of them, they do make a lot of them, and they absolutely have the ability to beat you in other ways. But it is intrinsic to their success is volume. Three point shooting. It's possible for that to run away from you. And I think in that third quarter where 19. It was 19 of their 20 shots were from three. Like, all right, you've, you've lost the plot a little bit, especially when you do have other ways of beating this Knicks team. On the Knicks side of it. Again, I'll, I'll do a quick pivot here to give credit to the team that just pulled the upset, as we did with, with the Western Conference game too. Like, you know, Brunson, you know, you know, decent game, but not one of his most dominant games over four and overtime. But like OG and Anobi shot the lights out. Mikhail Bridges didn't have a great shooting game, but like seven assists. Rips the ball away from Jalen Brown on that last play of.

[Raja Bell]

Oh my God, that was some gangster.

[Howard Beck]

Timely three out of the corner. Big three out of the corner.

[Cliff]

Yeah, like the, like the, the, the Knicks just made plays when they had to, which is kind of the story of their team. Right? Like, they're not the most dominant, they're not the most talented or the, or the deepest, but man, they got guys who just like bust their asses for through, through every second of the shot clock on every play down to the, to the wire and they'll pull out stuff like this. You know, the Celtics should absolutely still be favored in the series. And I don't think we're going to see a repeat of last night. And they did gag up a 20 point lead and I don't know how much of that, like, again, like, these things go hand in hand. Psychologically right. You're up 20. Maybe you feel more comfortable just being like drifting into threes instead of like being aggressively attacking. Right. Raj is nodding his head. Like there's these things kind of go hand in hand.

[Raja Bell]

I think the other thing, though, I think the other thing though, real quick, Raja, that I observed about the Celtics is I don't think this is a hundred percent thing, but in the playoffs, occasionally they get soft, man. Like, you've seen that with my against Miami in some ways. But like, if you punch the Celtics in the mouth and you get aggressive and you play that game, I think in some games you can get them. Like I saw that down the stretch of last night where they did get a little soft. And you mentioned, Howard mentioned the rip away of Miles Bridges in the final game, in the final possession. But overall, I continue to see this with the Celtics where they get into. They don't get aggressive. And then by extension when they shoot those threes, they just inherently just get softer and softer. And a team like New York can take advantage of that. I don't necessarily enough to win the series, but definitely get them on the Celtics on their toes and get their antennas up.

[Howard Beck]

If, if you. The Celtics, I mean, you know, they, they're, they're tough. Don't get that twisted, but they don't project tough, right? Like, they don't give tough. So like, you, you, the Knicks have more dudes like that, that strike you as like, hard hat. Get it out the mud. Josh Hart flying around, like five offensive rebounds at six five against like monstrous human beings. Like, they've got more guys that feel like hard hat type of guys. So that's why, you know, like, you know, that's why you can't. If you're the Celtics, you can't get in that type of game with them necessarily. Like, you, you know, you are the Ferrari to their, like, off road vehicle. You want to play this game, like out on the highway, dog.

[Raja Bell]

They're like a 03 Hummer, bro.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah, you don't, you don't want to be off roading with these cats, right? And that's what the off road. And this would be like staying in tight ball games down into the fourth quarter where you got, you know, the best closer in the game on the other team. And you could have figured out ways to put it away because, because you had opportunities to do. And let me just talk about the threes real quick. And I'm working through this because I think it makes sense. And I'm, I'm not sure like, not every three is created equal, right? I heard a stat that, like, 40. Some of their threes were open threes. So I'm not suggesting that they shot a disproportionate amount of contested threes. Right? But there is a difference for me on a three. Like, if I give you the ball in the mid post like they do with Jokic or. Or Luka or somebody like that, and it creates a rotation defensively and the ball pops out, and now that ball starts moving around and that wide open swing, swing to the corner. That three is a really good three. Like, the basketball gods smile on that three all the time. It's like, Cash, I was sitting, watching the game last night with Ty, and, like, Ty's a young Hooper, and, you know, I'm trying to teach him as we're watching and see what he's thinking about stuff and. And the seas go cold and there's, like, one play. I think it was. Was it Jalen or was it. Was. It might have been Jalen. Somebody just said. Might have been Drew Holiday. Fuck it. They put their head down and they drove the ball. No real plan. There was nothing there except he pulled a miraculous pass out of his ass across the baseline. Like, baseline drive, baseline drift, and the basketball God smiled on that corner. 3. Cash. There's a difference between the seeking of the rim that creates a three and just the random wide open three. And the reason I say that is because if you're seeking the rim, there's always an opportunity to finish at the rim. You might get gifted the layup in a few of those instances, just out of your aggression and your. Your. Your bullheadedness. I'm getting.

[Raja Bell]

And then also seeing the ball going into the basket is huge for NBA players. Seeing it go in.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah, not just players, but teams, Logan. It allows us to get another team into foul trouble in instances if we. If we continue to put pressure on the rim. And so I do think that while they might have shot wide open threes, I think there are other ways to create threes that you have to. You have to continue to play around with when you're. When you're finding that your original method of seeking threes isn't bearing fruit. And. And that's just, you know, that's just the way I feel about it.

[Raja Bell]

God damn it. That was beautiful, Roger. That was awesome.

[Howard Beck]

No, I mean, thank you. But I think it's real. You dig what I'm saying, right?

[Raja Bell]

Like, I do. I do.

[Howard Beck]

We're going to just cast around, like, okay, we're going to run this light action at the top. We're going to get a.

[Raja Bell]

But that's what I mean. Soft, though, Roger. That's what I mean when I'm saying, like, the Celtics get into this. This. This too pretty type of mentality, right? Where it's just like, oh, we're just gonna. We're gonna. It looks. It looks great to shoot a lot of threes. It looks awesome to. To be in this type of bag and just try to figure things out, and then you got somebody punch you in the fucking mouth. And that's what the Knicks did. And that was what was impressive about it, is that they didn't get to get away with being soft in this series. Right? Like, if you did that against the Magic or you did that in an earlier round, you can get away with stuff like that. And I just. I think when you talk about basketball gods, I'm really excited that the basketball gods gave us the Knicks who were like, nah, fuck that. You're going to have to earn this, and you have to earn this series.

[Howard Beck]

They went out and got an anobi and bridges, Joshua. Like, they got them for this type of stuff, right? For the Celtics, right? Yeah, they got them for these games. Like, we got guys that can guard your wings. Anunoby was phenomenal, by the way. Now, having said that, they weren't a great defensive team all year. Like, they hung their hat on offense.

[Cliff]

Yeah.

[Howard Beck]

Right. And so all I'm saying is, like, all right, let's say that, boom, they're going to spring to life defensively. And Adenobies, like, locking down Jalen Brown and. And. And we've got Tatum under control. And. But when we get that switch and we get. And we get Brunson, we. It's got to be Luca. Ish. Like, when they got. When. When Minnesota got Luka, what'd they do? When they got him on the switch, what'd they do? Did they settle for threes?

[Raja Bell]

Fuck, no. I'm going to the cup.

[Howard Beck]

They got downhill and that. And the Celtics need to take the same approach. Look, dog, like, we're gonna shoot all these threes. I got it. But if I get that motherfucker on this switch, we are going at that.

[Raja Bell]

What is this Knicks team showing you, Howard?

[Cliff]

You know, it's funny because Roger just mentioned it for the season, it's not like they were a great defensive team. I think they were maybe middle of the pack, and they. They kind of inverted from last year where it was like, defense, great offense.

[Raja Bell]

Okay?

[Cliff]

And then this year because of the. Largely because of the changes that they made. Right. They lost Hartenstein to free agency. They make the trade for Cat, they make the trade for Bridges who's supposed to prop up their defense or bolster their defense. But Bridges I don't think was great defensively for much of the season. And you know, around the Nets he wasn't considered exactly be the same defensive player before that trade. But it's the postseason and they've got another gear and that tends to be the case and you. You would kind of expect with a Tibbs team it's going to be the case. This is a grimy. They've shown their griminess over and over again. So I don't think we should be shocked. But yeah, you know, this is why you got Bridges. You wanted to pair him with Anunobi and the two of them plus Hart gives you, you know, three guys who can all defend multiple positions who are known if you know, in an obi's case known for elite defense and Bridges case known at times for being a top shelf defender and in Hart's case just known for like busting his ass regardless. And you know it shows up in moments like this. Right? And that's the thing like the Knicks, they were kind of hanging their hat on offense this year. But Cat as we'll get to I think here in a second that was all over the map in the first round. He was kind of eh. He was fine last night but it's not like he's dominating offensively. Like they're, they're kind of having to revert back to yo.

[Raja Bell]

When. When. When Tatum gets matched up to on Cat defensively or vice versa. A little tear comes down my eye. Like I just. It's. It's like I'm about to pour out some liquor man. Like it's. It's. He's either going to foul him, you're going to get. Cat is going to have a really tough series here because he's going to get switched on to one of the great guard or great forwards on the Celtics they're going to go to the cup on him and he's going to foul. He got in foul trouble last night and so that's what really concerns.

[Howard Beck]

He is a fatal with Brunson. Keep the same if you're the Celtics.

[Raja Bell]

No, but what I was going to.

[Howard Beck]

Say energy with Brunson and so to.

[Raja Bell]

That when defensively it even hurts even more Roger because your two best offenses are defensive liabilities. So like you just have. You're basically playing 3 on 5 in most instances in this series. Unless you take Cat off the floor and maybe you stagger minutes between those two so you have that offensive punch or something. But, like, it's going to be really tough when you put both of those guys on the floor.

[Howard Beck]

Unless The Celtics shoot 60 fucking threes.

[Raja Bell]

Also in play.

[Howard Beck]

You know, like. But no, I mean, I didn't mean to. Sorry, Howard. I know you probably know the point there.

[Cliff]

No, I'm good. I'm good.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah. I just. Look, the Celtics, I mean, the Celtics, the Knicks are a very interesting team in that they don't. I don't think you would look at them if I was on. And maybe I'm wrong again. I'm not on a roster, clearly, but I don't think there's someone I would look at going into a series and be like, oh, shit, this is all right. I just wouldn't like, you know, especially if I was on a team like the Celtics, obviously it's going to depend on the level of team I'm playing on, right? But if I were the Celtics, I would not feel that way. The problem is if you get into that street fight with them, if you're off roading with them, if you are. If you are getting it into their wheelhouse in terms of griminess and pace and your shot selection, it allows them to live in a way that gets you to a point late in the game where look, that little. That little dude is. And I don't mean to. I mean, he's probably six two. I don't know him, but he looks little, probably like I did on tv. It is unconscious what he does late in games. It doesn't matter if He's. If he's 3 for 17 up into that point or, you know, 12 of 14, it doesn't matter. When that thing comes down late. That joker bakes big buckets. And if you don't have a dude on your squad that does it like he does, and there are very few that do, it puts you in a really, really messed up spot. It gets real scary real quick. So they don't look like much, maybe early, but if you let them hang out and drag you into that kind of game and then he got the ball late, time to worry.

[Raja Bell]

Man, it's so great watching Brunson. He's like a Hooper's Hooper. Hooper, he's like the fife dog of the NBA, you know, where he just. You could tell he was watching the better basketball DVDs, you know, he is, you know, I'll Talk about Robert. They was doing all the dribbling drills. He bought the scammy ass shoes that had the extra sole on the bottom to make you dump shoes. Strength, you know? You know what I mean? And so, but you see all of that in the fundamentally sound play that he has and just how calm he is down the stretch of games like we were talking about. Remember that Lakers Knicks game at Crypto earlier this season? The game he got injured before that. The types of shots he was making. Brunson is so incredible. And I just, I didn't have a point other than that. But just to say that I think Brunson is incredible.

[Cliff]

I mean, he could have won this in regulation. Like, that was a very makeable shot. That was a great play he got.

[Raja Bell]

It was a difficult, but only. It was a very difficult shot. But because it was Brunson, we're like, that's probably going in.

[Cliff]

Yeah, it's funny too because like, if you think about it, like he smiled after the buzzer there. He never smiles like that. Dude shows no emotion on the court, like in either direction. He is as stoic as it gets among stars. Although I guess I should make an exception here given that they're playing against Jason Tatum, who is about as emotionless and stoic as it gets too.

[Raja Bell]

But like, that's a person. Jason Tatum's a person. He's not a robot.

[Cliff]

The AI generated robot cannot confirm. But, but Brunson rare, like the, the expression rarely cracks. You don't read, you can't read anything into what that dude is feeling or thinking in a game. And that was a good look he got, you know, tough ish shot, definitely what he could make. And they could have ended it right there in regulation. And he just, it was interesting just seeing him smile after that because like, you just, even in wins, you rarely see that dude crack a smile.

[Raja Bell]

Yeah, it's gonna be a really.

[Howard Beck]

It's going to be interesting. And look, here's the deal. Do I think the Celtics are going to do that again, shooting the ball? Absolutely not.

[Raja Bell]

Right?

[Howard Beck]

So from that perspective, I still feel like the Celtics are in control of this and will win this. Having said that, the Knicks did not play great. Like, they did not play great. So if I'm looking at it from the other side, like, Brunson didn't play great. I mean, Anunoby did, but like, Kat didn't play great. Like, there are a lot of things that you could point to to suggest, like they just got a dub in a game that they didn't play very well. So, like, it's really going to be interesting.

[Raja Bell]

Welcome back to Pack Watch with Zomi, who is ready to make you feel worse about your team than you already do.

[Jomi Adinaron]

What is up, real ones? You know who it be, Joe Me back with another Pack Watch. And I know I had to say goodbye to my leg as last time, but this time I have the great pleasure of packing up the Clippers, baby. Here's the thing. This is not new. We are neither new to this or untrue to this. This is standard practice. Every single year we are told that the Clippers are the next new thing, baby. This is their time. This is their year. And guess what? They go out and barrel sit in the playoffs. That's just what they do. That's who they are, right? There's always a little bit of different stuff. Ooh, maybe a James Harden choke. You know, used to be Paul George. The whole thing, this meant something to me. Okay. As somebody who's been sick of the bump enough to clip or drum, the fact that we are folly here, we can finally put to rest the Clippers championship aspirations.

[Cliff]

Oh.

[Jomi Adinaron]

Oh, my chest. I feel like a weight is lifted off my shoulders. Ladies and gentlemen. That means something to me.

[Raja Bell]

James Harden.

[Jomi Adinaron]

I know what you are. You're a playoff choker. Nervous enough, Kawhi brother. Might be time to go home and be a family man, right? This whole thing reeks. It might be like eternal packwash. They might be cooked for a minute, but it makes me happy inside.

[Howard Beck]

Really.

[Jomi Adinaron]

That's all that matters.

[Raja Bell]

And that was Jomi Idinaron with the Pack watch. Let's do 10 minutes really quickly on. On Warriors Wolves. Real quick. What's your favorite storyline going into this Roger? Like, what do you want to see? What? There's. There's so many there. What is the. The thing that you're like, this is what I'm here to watch.

[Howard Beck]

I mean, the Petty. The soap opera stuff like the.

[Raja Bell]

The. You're not Petty, Raja. You don't. You don't get into such shitty waters.

[Howard Beck]

I could tell you that I want to watch, you know, Draymond and. And. And Rudy, you know, I want to see. There are things that I want to see. But I think what's going to be the most interesting to me is going to be how does, like, two things. How do. How do Minnesota. How do they approach Steph in terms of continuing the physicality that Houston brought to the table? Is that their game plan? Do they think, okay, you know, Steph didn't have A phenomenal series. He had phenomenal moments in the series, but, like, for. For large stretches, it was proving to be, like, fruitful. Right. Like, is that. And then how does Golden State deal with the size and the length of. Of Minnesota? Like, how do. How do they. How do they counter that? I think. I think those would be the two things I'm looking for in the series.

[Raja Bell]

Howard, me and you talked about this pre pod offline yesterday. How much did you believe that rock that went over the Rockets in Game seven? When I say believe, I mean when. How much did you believe? It's actually going to be a catapult to better vibes in Golden State. Or was it just we. They got out of the series finally, and this is a bad omen for the coming series against the Wolves.

[Cliff]

Yeah. If the warriors were even three years younger, five years younger, battling the Rockets to a game seven, you. Fine. Okay, look, that was a really impressive way that they grinded this out. And yeah, the Rockets were hard to put away, blah, blah, blah, but they got out of it. I just wonder at this stage, given the ages that they are, if there's much left.

[Howard Beck]

Like, they.

[Cliff]

They had to go to a really tough, like, mentally, physically, emotionally grueling series and then have to go straight from Houston to Minneapolis. Can't even go home first. I assume they didn't go home first. I'm not.

[Raja Bell]

If they flew straight back, they flew straight to Minnesota and only had a day off.

[Cliff]

Yeah. So you've got no time to turn around. You're. You're stuck on the road for multiple days. That's tough. It's tough under any circumstances. And they are an older team, so I would have. I would have felt better about the warriors chances in this series, and I'm not ruling them out by any stretch, but if they had closed this out, you know, after, you know, going up three, one. If they'd close it out in five or even six. If as they probably should have, you'd feel a little better if they'd gotten some recovery time, but they didn't. And the things that make them still really dangerous at this stage, aside from obviously just Steph's talent, Butler's talent, Draymond's D. Is the fact that we've done this before. There's nothing we haven't seen, nothing we haven't done, nothing we haven't been through, and you haven't. Well, that's easy to say when you're talking to. Or beating Houston. Not entirely the same against the Timberwolves, who were in the conference finals last year are grown up before our eyes and there's a lot of big game experience there. Anthony Edwards just outplayed Luca and LeBron and Logan and I were talking about this yesterday too. Like when you talk about the ascent of a young superstar who's trying to make his mark and say it's my time now, you go through Luka and LeBron, granted, 40 year old LeBron and a not in shape Luca, who just got to the Lakers a couple months ago, whatever. But still you went through one of the greatest players.

[Raja Bell]

Luca been out of shape Anthony Edwards his whole career. So I don't want to use that as an excuse.

[Cliff]

But you, you went through a legend in LeBron and, and one of the best players on earth today in Luca, you now have the chance to go through again older, but it doesn't matter you if you are the one to knock out Steph Draymond, Jimmy Butler on what may be their last or among their last chances. Like, those are nice stepping stones. Those are nice little markers for Anthony Edwards. And you know, he's looking at that, you know, like we've talked about this too. Like every series he goes into, it doesn't matter who's on the court. He's like, I'm the best guy out here. That's the way he carries himself. That's the way he believes in himself. So it's, it's a big moment for him. But there's, man, there's so many subplots in this series. You know, Draymond and Rudy Gobert's history and you know, Jimmy Butler back to Minnesota, given the way things ended just slightly messily there for him, hasn't played.

[Raja Bell]

In Minnesota since November of 2021.

[Cliff]

How is that even possible?

[Howard Beck]

Really?

[Cliff]

That's wild. That's why people haven't ever seen it. By the way, plug for my old buddies, the, the malamuts who made Game of Zones. Go back, go, go to YouTube and pull up the Jimmy Butler episode of Game of Zones. Jimmy Butler on the Wolves episode of Game of Zones. I'm going to post it later to Blue Sky. That's an all timer. It is one of my favorites. It's so fucking funny. Just, just epic stuff. But anyway, Jimmy back to Minnesota is a thing like there's a lot like, no, nobody's left from Jimmy's time there, but it doesn't matter. Like the fans are gonna, you know, be all over him.

[Raja Bell]

If I'm a Warrior fan, you know, the concern level is at an all time high For. For my team because of all the things that Howard just stated. And there's also. We didn't talk about this, but, like, the Draymond factor, like, he has not been good over the last couple of weeks. I mean, just from the flagrants to the defense, they're actually starting him at the 5 right now. Roger. Every game. Which shows you, like, how bad the length is with Golden State. I just. I. I want to believe that they're going to. They can pull this out just because, like, I've seen them do this before. But, man, that. That game seven against Houston, it was like. It didn't make me feel like, oh, yeah, this is great. And they tried to, like, manufacture some, like, excitement. I think Draymond got caught on television saying, surprise, surprise. And it's like, actually, you didn't surprise anybody that you were. You were doing what you were supposed to do way too late. And I just don't see it with this warriors team. And I could be proved wrong, but I feel like this Minnesota team just has a. Is on a mission and Ant is just become a different dude. I don't. I don't. I think this maybe goes in five or six for Minnesota. Ron.

[Howard Beck]

I could definitely see that. I could see five or six for Minnesota. I could see more six than five, I think. I think if I'm being fair for the reasons you just kind of said, I. There's just pedigree and DNA and pride that would always give Golden State at least a slight puncher's chance, in my opinion. Right. Like, I would never rule them all the way out to get steamrolled. Except, like I said, not all three pointers are created equal. Not all seven game series are created equal. And the one they just came out of was a football, like seven game series. It was physical. There were collisions. There were targetings.

[Raja Bell]

We said at the onset they were going to get their ass kicked no matter what.

[Howard Beck]

No matter what. They were destined. If that thing. If that thing lasted and stretched, it was going to be punitive. It was going to cost them at some point. And I would agree with you. It's going to. You're going to start to see it. Like, Houston didn't get to reap the benefit of it, but I think Minnesota will get to reap some of the benefit of the. Of the investment made by Houston.

[Raja Bell]

Yeah, there were a lot of games that I saw in that Houston series was like, why are the rockets up 15 right now? They should be up 15 right now.

[Howard Beck]

And, yeah, they just could put it In a hole at times.

[Raja Bell]

Yeah. And I think those. At those times where we say, why aren't. Why the times we were asking, why aren't the Rockets up? The Minnesota Timberwolves will actually be up 15, you know, and so we'll see what happens. Man, I'm really excited for this series. Let's get to the mailbag. Cliff. Question for you after. You're a big SZA fan, like me and Victoria, do you think that listening to SZA would make you want to commit a flagrant foul?

[Victoria]

Wait, why would it make me want to commit a flavor foul? Scissors. So peaceful and nice dancing on stage.

[Raja Bell]

Draymond said that he. He listened to SZA before game seven and immediately.

[Victoria]

Wait, what? Wait, Draymond credited.

[Raja Bell]

Did you not Scissors.

[Victoria]

Did you hear his Grant?

[Raja Bell]

Did you not hear this? Did you not hear this? No, no, he didn't credit for this. The crash out. What he said was, man, you know, throughout the series, I was listening a lot of Pac, a lot of checkout time, lot of. A lot of, you know, just hardcore music. And then before game seven, he listened to Sizza in 90s R&B and still got a flavored foul. So I'm asking you and your pickup games, could you think you could commit a fragrant foul while listening to the century voice of. Of our beloved Lana?

[Victoria]

Man, if Draymond don't stop the bs, man, just know that that's just base level. Draymond, he's gonna do whatever he wants to do. It don't matter who he's listening, bro, you can listen to Beethoven. He'll crash out and find somebody. Like, it does not matter who he's listening to. Like Draymond. Is that crazy? Yo, but y'all want to get to a mailbag question here?

[Raja Bell]

Let's do it.

[Victoria]

All right. This is cool. This is. This is. I'm reading this the first time. So Kawhi truth from Tommy Statler. Net time. Y'all see uncle walking down them Spotify hallways. Can you remind me him while he's wearing his clippers shirtsy, sipping his Lakers haterade that Kawhi lenders 012 versus Jamal Murray. Most overrated player since a Vince Carter Instagram reel. Tommy. Tommy Statler. Is there any truth to that?

[Cliff]

Wait, what is he saying? Kawhi's overrated?

[Victoria]

Yeah, he said Kawhi's over two versus Jamal Murray.

[Raja Bell]

Do we want to have the Kawhi discussion right now? Howard.

[Cliff]

Kawhi won two Finals MVPs. What are we doing? He's older.

[Raja Bell]

He's gonna make the case to be an. If you, if you make the case that he, you know, be an about it, you could say, you know, that Finals MVP was guarding a guy that, you know scored average 30 and on 50 and 40 in the series. So you know this. Or you could, or you could, you know, bring up the injuries, you could bring up the, you know, the choke that just happened right here. There's a lot of. If you wanted to hate Uncle Wide, it's very easy case to do it. That's all I'm saying.

[Cliff]

If you wanted to, in which case, if you want to, you're kind of a dick. So what we're really saying here.

[Raja Bell]

Right?

[Cliff]

Why are you going out of your way to try to like tear down a guy who's been a two time finals MVP and has had one of like when healthy, an incredible run. Like LeBron, Steph and Kevin Durant are the guys who kind of like define the last 10 years or so, right? Like when you count up who's won all the MVPs all the championships, it's. It's LeBron and Steph primarily KD significantly. And then Kawhi is the other guy who even belongs in that sentence, which is like an incredible feat unto its own, right? Like these are all time greats. Steph, LeBron and Katie are going to be wherever you want to put them in the pantheon.

[Raja Bell]

Top 10 Top Kawhi Omar.

[Cliff]

Omar shot down in his prime.

[Victoria]

It's Kawhi Omar. Y'all want to get to the second question here?

[Raja Bell]

Let's do it.

[Victoria]

Is it time to take the overpaid label off? Mikhail Bridges. This is from Ernesto Ortiz. What's good? Real ones. Big fan. A lot was made about the first amount of first round picks the Knicks gave up for Bridges, but I believe this dude's durability should be studied. Not only the record breaking amount of games he's played in a row, but also the amount of minutes he logs in. In this era of NBA where injuries and low management are an issue, Mikel seems like a rare breed. And in my opinion that alone is worth two or three first round picks on top of his talent. I wanted to get Yalls thoughts on that. Much love, Ernesto.

[Raja Bell]

Go ahead, Howard.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah, Howard.

[Raja Bell]

You got it, buddy.

[Cliff]

I don't, I don't think anybody doubted at the time that the Knicks made the trade for Mikhail Bridges, that he was worth getting, that he, that at his best he's a really valuable player. Partially for his defense, partially for I think his ball handling, playmaking. Whatever. Like, he's a good, versatile player. The overpay accusation was about how many picks they gave up to get him, which I'm trying to find as we're talking.

[Victoria]

I believe it was four and some pick swaps in there. Howard.

[Cliff]

Yeah, it was. It was a lot. I mean, it was a lot. And I think even in real time, people question whether that was an overpay. The things we don't know. And it's, it's. We do this all the time with trades, especially blockbusters or ones that cost a lot of draft capital or whatever. We don't know what it's like in the room. Right. You don't know at what point you know, who's bluffing. How far were the Knicks willing to go or how, you know, how much did the Nets demand? How much could you have talked them down to? Was there another team out there that was potentially in the running and was and was willing to give up as much? I mean, you. You just don't know. So the, the leverage in the negotiations and the back and forth we're not privy to. And when teams talk about these things after the fact, they lie their fucking asses off. So you can't rely on that either. It's. So, look, they paid what they paid. If it results in the Knicks, you know, getting to the conference finals, they'll great. You'll have been to a place that you haven't been in 20 something years. If you get to the finals, if you want somebody want a championship. And Bridges has years to go, and is the other part of it, he's on a reasonable contract, you know, we'll. We'll be able to judge it in retrospect, as of right now. Have they gotten what they wanted out of it, out of that trade? By and large, yes, I would say. And with. With, you know, many games to go here potentially, and years to go. So it's, it's too soon to know for sure how to judge that. The, the only question really is, could you have gotten him for less? How much less? And again, if we're not in the room, it's hard to judge that.

[Raja Bell]

Boom. That was great, huh?

[Victoria]

Also, how. I don't know.

[Howard Beck]

Fantastic.

[Victoria]

I don't know if Jalen Brunson takes that pay cut, too, if it isn't for Mikhail Bridges to go over to the Knicks.

[Cliff]

Yeah.

[Victoria]

Which is his man. So. Final one. This is from Chris Thomas. Watching Amen Thompson doing what he did in the third quarter, My friends tried to ask, what is this comp. I said, TMac without a jumper. What do you guys think his ceiling is? And is there a player who Amen reminds you of?

[Raja Bell]

Can I. Okay, I will say one but. And I just hated on him just for the sake of haters in general. But, like, could he be like Kawhi?

[Cliff]

First two years, that's been my. Yeah, yeah.

[Raja Bell]

We're like, he's a guy that needed to develop a game but had all of the raw talents. Like, you think about Kawhi when he came out of San Diego State. If you look at the clips of Kawhi coming out of San Diego State, his jumper was ugly as shit. He could. But he could rebound his ass off it. He could play in transition, and those were the two tentpole things that you needed to be able to do. I think if Amin is able to develop an offensive game and work really, really hard over the summers, the next three or four summers and develop that game, I think Kawhi is a good comp.

[Howard Beck]

Um, I. Yes and no. I only. I only like it because Kawhi turned into something offensively like that, that you really didn't see early. But I think. I think he's more polished. Amen. At this point than Kawhi was. I think. I think he's. I think he's more polished, if that. If that's even possible because he doesn't really shoot it, but like, he's really, really slick with that ball. And you know, once he's in the lane and in transition and some of his finishes are. Are crazy, man. He. Yeah, I mean, I actually. It's going to be really fun. It's going to be really fun to see because I don't hate Kawhi. Right. Kawhi still played a. Like, even when he played at his best, it was a really mechanical looking game. You know what I mean? Like, it was. It was brilliant, but it was like really kind of stiff and mechanical when he hit shit, like crazy shots. But this dude's like, way more, like, it's got way more flow to him when he moves and. And his burst is crazy. I'm trying to think, man. Like. Yeah, I don't know. I don't have a good one, man. Like, that would be T. Mac D. Rose. Ish. Like, if, like, I'm. I'm trying to, like, put together a package of people who. He moves. Like. Like he's. There's a little bit of Vince, a little bit of. A little bit of D. Rose, a little bit of T. Mac. When you see him kind of coming down when he's comfortable and confident. Yeah. I don't know. I'd have to think about that longer. I don't hate. I don't hate Kawhi, but I do think he's got a more flow to his game more.

[Raja Bell]

Like, bro, did you see that move that he made in the lane in game seven where he had the ball up, like, on his right ear and then got that through three defenders and flicked it on the other side for a layup?

[Howard Beck]

Unreal.

[Raja Bell]

It was nuts.

[Howard Beck]

Unreal. Unreal. Is that the one that he went behind the back on? Like, he kind of skipped through a whole back with it and then was like, that shit's unreal, bro.

[Raja Bell]

It's fucking crazy, man.

[Howard Beck]

His hit also look that cat ceiling. I know what the. I know what it's gonna sound like. If that cat can skill up and has the type of skill transformation that Kawhi had. He fuck around and be the best player in the NBA.

[Raja Bell]

That's why he's honestly.

[Howard Beck]

Because Kawhi became almost unguardable, like, from. With shooting and mid post. If you put that. With what that cat has physically and the length and stuff, he could be.

[Raja Bell]

That's.

[Cliff]

Zach and I had this discussion yesterday on his pod about like, amen. Is the guy who. He's the one guy on that roster, I think, who is absolutely untouchable. Right?

[Raja Bell]

Like, can't trade him.

[Cliff]

Yeah.

[Victoria]

What about Shingoon, though?

[Cliff]

Trade Shangun. Rp.

[Raja Bell]

Yeah, real quick. I'm sorry, Go ahead. I'll get your point, but I just need to do a rant on Shangoon, man. Can this dude just finish around the rim in an important moment, please?

[Cliff]

You're gonna hurt Michael Penis feelings, Logan.

[Raja Bell]

His feelings have been hurt enough this season. He'll be fine. He's used to it. He just don't make bad decisions. But geez, every time I saw Shagoon miss a shot, if you took a shot every time Shangoon missed a point blank shot, you'd be as drunk as Roger on a Friday night right now.

[Howard Beck]

No, it was Saturday night this weekend. But.

[Raja Bell]

What do you got?

[Howard Beck]

My son's 18th birthday party, bro. We were living life, Howard, I want to hear what, you know, funnest thing.

[Raja Bell]

Funniest thing ever was the live show. And when Roz is like, I don't know if I want to take tequila, man. I don't know if I want to do it. And then 30 seconds later, it let's go.

[Howard Beck]

Pressure is a mofo, man. What? I'm interested, Howard. What were you guys talking about? In regards to like just.

[Cliff]

Yeah, no, just that like amends upside is, is. Is so crazy high. And now listen, like we talked about this in the context of like do the Rockets make the move now? Do you, do you chill and just let these guys keep growing? When do you, when do you do the all in move? When do you consolidate? Because they've got a lot of really interesting young players and they've got all those Suns picks. Like when do you do the consolidation trade? And like this summer there's a lot of guys who could potentially be available and you don't do it for just any of them if you do it at all. But like, you know, and if it's kd, there's qualifiers because short window because of his age. If it's book who like, you know, the sun's insists at the end of time they're never going to trade Devin Booker. But if Devin Booker is available, okay, there's a different consideration there. You've got a longer window. And then there's Giannis, two time MVP, 30, 31 years old, whatever, plenty of dominant years left. Is Amen Thompson still untouchable in that scenario? Like it gets interesting, right? But he's the one guy, and at least in all due respect to Alpern Sengun, who's a very good player and definitely was overmatched in, in this series against, you know, Draymond, couldn't do anything against him, but Draymond's Draymond and it's Sengun's first time in the playoffs. Give the guy a little bit of grace. Although I did declare yesterday on Zach's pod that Julius Randle is a better player at this stage than Sengun, which he is.

[Raja Bell]

How are you gonna tell me to not break Pena's heart and then you go ahead and do it yourself?

[Cliff]

Don't trust me. We've been texting this morning again because of all this. So I just think that Thompson, the first guy I thought of earlier this season, Logan, was exactly the same Kawhi, and not because they're, they feel identical, but there's a little bit of build, like a little bit of like strength and length and like, like Kawhi's got that huge upper body and I don't remember if it was as quite as, as powerful in his earlier years, if he built that along the way. But Amen Thompson has that, that combination. Like he's explosive as hell. Like the Vince Carter reference that Raja just made, like that's, that's. That part of it I think is that explosiveness and the finishing. But yeah, he's, he's already a defensive beast, one of the best in the NBA. And the offense is already ahead of. I agree with Raja, already ahead of where it was at this stage for Kawhi, the potential for him to develop all of that, the three point shot, the, the feel for the game that allows you to be a great facilitator and passer. Like it could all come and, and if it does, the guy's going to be in MVP discussions for a lot of his career. And that's the kind of guy you don't want to trade at this stage. And that's why it gets really interesting if Giannis ends up available and if there are discussions there, because if you're the Bucks, that's the first dude you're asking for. Oh, those Sons picks, those are really nice. That's great. By the way, Amend Thompson, we're not doing it without him. And then if you're Rafael Stone, it's like, we'll give you Jalen Green and Alpert Shangoon. You want Atari Eason like it gets.

[Raja Bell]

You want Jabari Smith Jr instead.

[Cliff]

If it's me, I'm trading every, every sub, every guy on that roster is available other than, than Thompson. I'm. Yeah, Jalen Green, I'm not, I'm not worried about parting with Sengun. Very good player. But I'm, I'm just not sure if the ceiling is high enough. Amen Thompson, man, that guy's, he's, he's the epitome of Sky's the limit.

[Raja Bell]

You see the guy, you see what happens in the game Sevens. That's when the real players and the real leaders actually come into the fold. And going into this series, if you were to look at the Rockets, you would probably say, who's the guy on that team? Maybe it's Jalen Green, right? Maybe he's like the guy that's supposed to be the guy. And you know, he tried, I saw it early in the, in the series, he tried to be that guy. And by the end of the series, it was very clear. It was Amen Thompson's team. Like, this is his, this is his group. They're going to go where he goes. And that's just that. And so can't wait to see where the Rockets are next year. I was so happy to watch them. I was very grateful to be able to be watching that series. It was, it was really cool to see these guys blossom even in a loss.

[Cliff]

Roger.

[Howard Beck]

No doubt, no doubt. Yeah. And just to add to that, that's always going to be a separator, right? Level of play, level of situation, opponent, ability like that. That becomes a separator of talent and players, quite frankly. Right. So, like, the ones that can will continue to rise to the to the.

[Raja Bell]

Occasion and the real ones will continue to rise to the occasion. That's been another edition of the show.

[Howard Beck]

I'm your caddy, bro. I walk around just teeing them all up for you, bro. You just come through and like, I got you.

[Raja Bell]

Love you, buddy. You got you. Thank you. Thank you so much. We will see you guys on Friday. We'll just be me and raw in the meantime. Real ones, mailbag gmail.com Real ones mailbag gmail.com real ones mailbag gmail.com it is going to be an awesome playoffs and we are trying to give you awesome episodes. So tap in. We'll see you guys on Friday. Ah, all this. Shout out to Victoria. Shout out to Cliff. Shout out to Howard. Shout out to Rod. Talk to y'all soon. All the shits. Bye.

[Howard Beck]

Foreign.

[Raja Bell]

Must be 21 years and older and present in select states. For Kansas and affiliation with Kansas Star Casino. We're 18 and older and present in D.C. gambling problem. Call 1-800-gambling or visit rghelp.com, call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghealth.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghealthlinema.org or call 1-800-327-5050 for support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text HOPE NY in New York.