Preseason Power Rankings, Part 1 | Group Chat

Summary

The Ringer NBA Show: Preseason Power Rankings, Part 1 (Group Chat)

Date: September 27, 2025
Hosts: Justin Verrier, Wosny “Big Wos” Lambre, Rob Mahoney

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Episode Overview

The Ringer NBA Show launches its annual six-part preseason power rankings series, kicking off with the bottom five teams (No. 30–26). Justin, Wos, and Rob gather in Los Angeles for an in-person “Group Chat,” breaking down which franchises are facing existential questions, outlining what matters for their future, and—true to form—debating who exactly “is a guy” worth betting on. If you love NBA sicko territory, this episode is for you.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Setting the Vibes, Power Rankings Process, and “Sicko” Pride

• The hosts joke about LA life, podcast quasi-celebrity status, and how this year’s rankings were compiled: each host ranks teams 1–30, Justin aggregates, and Isaiah Blakely breaks tiebreakers.
• “This one in particular? 30 to 26, my favorite podcast we do all year. Just absolute sicko shit. And you know, the fact that there is any audience whatsoever for us talking about these particular teams is just an incredible luxury...and grace.” — Rob Mahoney (05:30)

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[07:37] No. 30 — Utah Jazz

Offseason Moves & The Plan

• Utah finally committed to a full rebuild, clearing veteran contracts like John Collins, Collin Sexton, and Jordan Clarkson for little in return.
• “They basically decided Danny Ainge did, as is his custom, that he wanted nothing but perfect trades...this off season, they kind of were like, all right, we're done with this charade of pretending to be rebuilding but also, like, being competitive.” — Big Wos (08:54)

The Existential Question

Is Lauri Markkanen a keeper, or just a walking bundle of future picks?

• Wos argues that, with the roster so young, the smart move is to shop Markkanen: “He is one of these guys that can scale in terms of...bring what he's doing to any situation...I can't think of a team in the league who can't use what this guy brings.” (10:15)
• Rob highlights Markkanen’s immense trade value: “It's the reason you give him $196 million. It's not because he's a superstar: it's because he's beneficial to any situation. He's imminently tradable.” (11:08)
• The problem: his new contract is huge, and suitors will need cap space.

Possible Trades & Fits

• Detroit (for a piece like Jaden Ivey) is mentioned as a juicy fit, but concerns exist about fit and sacrificing too much shooting in the core.
• “I would want to rely on shooting from my core guys instead of these hired goons...if you're not, it's a lot of Markkanen and Cade with three potential non-shooters as your core guys.” — Justin (15:41)

"Naming Some Guys": The Guards

• The Jazz guard rotation is bleak and unclear after the “double tank” offseason.
• Keonte George, Isaiah Collier, and Bryce Sensabaugh are discussed, with skepticism about any emerging as a real lead guard.
• “Somebody's gotta do a bulk of the ball handling. Now, even, you know, Clayton Jr....you're not going to give him the ball and say, handle the rock all day, rookie...I don't know who's gonna do the dribbling here.” — Wos (19:59)

Frontcourt Questions

• Positive mention: Walker Kessler/Hendricks frontcourt with Markkanen is actually “not bad,” but additions like Nurkic and Love seem odd.
• “They really packed it with known guys, serious people.” — Justin (20:46)
• The show predicts “a lot of lineups” (Jazz had 46 starting last year), but little optimism for success.

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[21:53] No. 29 — Brooklyn Nets

The Asset Accumulation Plan

• Despite jokes about picking five (!) first rounders in 2025, the hosts largely support their rent-the-cap-space/focus-on-future-assets approach, as there’s no superstar to build around.
• “I don't see what else they were going to do, besides what they’ve done now...rent out their cap space, get future assets, and just build toward a future because they don't have that one guy to build around.” — Justin (22:49)

The Existential Question

Which current players will be on the roster next time Brooklyn is a contender?

• Rob’s “easy answer” is rookie Drake Powell: “Just going to be an NBA role player kicking around rosters for a while.”
• “The more difficult ones...are the playmakers...one of Jagor Dioman or Ben Sarof are gonna work. I don’t know which.” — Rob (27:22)
• Wos and Rob agree: no star in place, lots of dice rolls, but they’re at least “peddling hope” more than other bottom teams.

Team Building & Locker Room Management

• Noted concern: Cam Thomas and Michael Porter Jr., two non-stars who “believe they're stars,” may suck all the oxygen and shots from the young playmakers.
• “Cam Thomas...is on a revenge tour to prove that he got lowballed on his contract offer. That's where I'm just like, okay, this is highly combustible.” — Wos (25:37)

Recent Pickups & Freebies

• Brooklyn is praised for leveraging their cap space to get Haywood Highsmith, Terrance Mann, Kobe Bufkin, etc., but these are probably short-term vets/coaches, not “core” guys.
• Kobe Bufkin: “Let him play through his mistakes.” — Justin (31:50)

Long-Term Outlook

• “Three years from now they might be as good as Detroit is.” — Wos (28:41)
• Sober assessment: “This is going to be a very bad team.” — Rob (32:43)
• Maybe Day'Ron Sharpe or Nick Claxton sticks around as a Miles Turner–like franchise lifer.

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[33:20] No. 28 — Washington Wizards

Rebuild Supreme: Why It’s Actually Fun

• The Wizards are crowned “best rebuilding team to be a fan of,” thanks to an absurd ten (!) first-rounders still on rookie deals and a nonchalant, chaotic approach.
• “If you're someone who just wants to explore the space of young talent, this is the team for you.” — Justin (35:43)

Existential Question

Are the Wizards the best rebuilding team to be a fan of?

• Rob: “They're going to be relying on a lot of young players. They're going to play this really energizing style.... I can't tell you exactly which young guys are going to be the reason for that, but they have enough of them that I think some of them are just going to hit.” (39:03)
• Caution: Nobody thinks they've found a future star (“nobody thinks they’ve identified a franchise cornerstone as of yet”). (38:27)
• Massive flexibility: With tradeable vets Chris Middleton and CJ McCollum and up to $100M in cap space, “there's a lot to work with here.”

Roster & Playing Time

• Rob lays out a fun depth chart and rotation puzzles with Bub Carrington, AJ Johnson, Trey Johnson, Keyshawn George, Will Riley, Bilal Coulibaly (injured), Cam Whitmore, and more.
• “This is the one team where too many guys works in their benefit.” — Justin (36:33)

Vets' Trade Watch

• Chris Middleton and CJ McCollum likely to be moved by the deadline, both praised for last year’s locker-room roles: “Who’s going to trade for Chris Middleton? Who’s going to trade for CJ McCollum?” (39:03)

Development Focus

• “SAR is a prime example of that. Not quite a star...but seems like a high-level role player type who will fit around virtually everything.” — Justin (39:50)
• Trey Johnson’s exact offensive upside is TBD: “Is he going to be Ray Allen at the end of his career or Ray Allen at the beginning of his career?” — Justin (40:24)

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[42:30] No. 27 — Charlotte Hornets

The Unmoved Star and Endlessly Looming Rebuild

Existential Question

Can Charlotte finally make a decision with LaMelo Ball?

• Justin rails against trade rumors for LaMelo and advocates giving the Ball–Brandon Miller nucleus a real shot: “At a certain point, you can’t just keep turning over teams when you already have [an All-Star rookie of the year].”
• Wos offers a counterpoint: LaMelo may need a “change of scenery” to ever become a “serious professional,” drawing parallels to Luka Doncic slimming down only after leaving Dallas: “I don’t think LaMelo Ball can become a serious professional in Charlotte.” (44:36)

Fit and Professionalism

• Rob is a “LaMelo Ball believer,” but expresses clear concern: “I don’t believe in the work habits. I don’t believe in who he is as a professional. Absolutely.”
• The hosts agree: minimal incentive to sell low on LaMelo now if he's not a true “cancer,” but leadership and intangibles are in question. (50:59)
• Not much excitement about the Hornets’ many “bucket-getting small guards” after bringing in Sexton, Trey Mann, and others.

Style & Shooting Concerns

• Charlotte’s ultra–three-heavy Charles Lee system may not make sense for a young roster: “I started to wonder whether...that style where we're really going to let it fly is best suited for an established group of veterans.” — Justin (54:41)
• Draft approach aims for shooting help: “Knipolis shooter, Liam McNeely, late of UConn—a shooter—although hasn't shot it well.” — Justin (56:18)

Defensive Worries

• The lack of defensive rebounding is a big red flag after losing Nick Richards and Mark Williams. “I think this team is going to get fucking annihilated on the defensive glass. They have no one who can rebound.” — Rob (56:36)

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[57:52] No. 26 — New Orleans Pelicans

Dysfunction Central

• Justin doesn’t mince words: “The New Orleans Pelicans...are an absolute catastrophe of an organization. I considered putting them second to last...Their only saving grace was that they don’t have their pick next year.” (57:52)

The Existential Question

Has Zion been failed by the franchise as much as he’s failed himself?

• All hosts express sympathy for Zion’s “led astray” development.
  • “Zion could have been a train wreck...but you combine just organizational turmoil and just rank incompetence with what he had going on personally, it’s…perfect storm.” — Wos (60:55)
• Rob: “He has mismanaged his career. They have mismanaged his career. There's no coming out of that looking clean and everything clicking in place.”

Roster Fit Problems

• The “old” core (Zion, Trey Murphy, Herb Jones) now is surrounded from all sides by mismatched timelines: aging vets (Kavon Looney, Jordan Poole), young picks (Fears, Queen), and retreads.
• “How does he play with Fears without sacrificing defense? How does he play with Kavan Looney without sacrificing shooting?...Frankly, I don't know if the people making the decisions have put enough thought into that.” — Justin (62:24)

Starting Five Guessing Game

• Who starts? “I always lean veterans over everything...I wouldn’t be surprised if Kavan Looney and Jordan Poole start.” (64:22)
• “Why would you introduce Jordan Poole to what was already a fundamentally broken mix?” — Rob (63:47)

No Path to Winning, No Pick

• The need to win (no control of their pick) may push them to play vets and eke out empty late-season wins. No optimism for the playoffs.

Ownership/Franchise Viability

• As the New Orleans malaise drags on, Justin wonders if “bigger existential questions” are in play about basketball’s existence under current leadership: “Perhaps [Silver] could give a little nudge out the door for our girlfriend.”

Sadiq Bey Corner

• “Not all the people you believe in come up for you when you really got you.” — Rob (66:47) on perennial flier Sadiq Bey, with laughs and groans about his unrewarded breakout potential.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “This is what we do all our existential pondering—the sicko teams!” — Justin (03:28)
• "You have shooting bigs but somehow Markkanen still manages to play big while functioning more like your typical wing shooter, which is very rare.” — Justin on Markkanen (14:10)
• “This team could be...You catch me at 4pm Pacific on a Wednesday, I am watching Washington Wizards basketball.” — Justin (33:32)
• “Not all the people you believe in come up for you when you really got you.” — Rob (66:47)
• “He stinks. Does he call your mom on Mother’s Day?” — Wos, disillusioned by Sadiq Bey (67:11)

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Important Timestamps

• 03:28 – Introduction, rankings process, “sicko” pride
• 07:37 – Utah Jazz deep dive (rebuild, Markkanen’s fate, roster issues)
• 21:53 – Brooklyn Nets post-rebuild reality (assets, draft strategy, role confusion)
• 33:20 – Washington Wizards as the NBA’s most ‘fun’ rebuild team
• 42:30 – Charlotte Hornets and the LaMelo dilemma
• 57:52 – New Orleans Pelicans: Dysfunction, Zion, and no path forward

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Tone & Style

The episode is energetic, irreverent, and deeply “sicko” in its love of fringe NBA storylines. The hosts blend sharp analysis with self-aware jokes about their own obsessions and the futility—and quiet joy—of power ranking the league’s worst rosters.

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In Summary

Part 1 of the Ringer NBA Show’s preseason power rankings delivers an in-depth look at the NBA’s bottom feeders—offering hope, skepticism, and plenty of laughs. Whether dissecting Utah’s tanking philosophy, Brooklyn’s asset obsession, Washington’s all-in youth movement, Charlotte’s eternal crossroads, or New Orleans’ organizational chaos, the Group Chat crew brings sharp analysis and personality throughout. Even if you haven’t tuned in, this breakdown serves as a guide to the NBA’s most hopeless (and fascinating) 2025–26 storylines.

Next up: Teams 25–21 in Part 2.

Transcript

[Justin Verrier]

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[Justin Verrier]

Hello and welcome back to group chat. I am Justin Verrier, and joining me in front of me, it's Big Waz right there. And finally out of his closet.

[Rob Mahoney]

I know.

[Justin Verrier]

It's Rob Mahoney.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm as shocked as you are.

[Justin Verrier]

How does it feel to be a Hollywood legend?

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't know if I've reached that status yet. I'm hitting all the benchmarks, though. I was just talking about I need to get a plant. You know, I just need to fully embrace the L. A lifestyle. I'm being humbled by the traffic on a regular basis, but unlike you, Justin, I've not been sunburned yet. You know, I'm used to these harsh environs. I'm used to the Texas heat. The sun will not get me down out here.

[Justin Verrier]

He's built for it.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm built for it.

[Justin Verrier]

Have you walked him through what? The do's and don'ts of being an Angelino?

[Big Waz]

We actually have it driving. I would say avoid it unless it's between the hours of 11:00am and 2:00pm okay, seems reasonable. And then after 8:00pm basically, you can drive outside of that. You should Avoid it.

[Rob Mahoney]

Just a normal, functional city you have here.

[Big Waz]

Yeah. I mean, listen, look, you can drive in your neighborhood.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Big Waz]

If you want to get across town, you better have some good podcasts fired up and some patience, because it's going to take a while. Other than that, I would say find your matcha spot crucial locally and just buckle up for the ride, man. That's what I would say.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm looking forward to it.

[Justin Verrier]

Well, you're already kind of a pseudo celebrity, which is like. That's what you need to get into. You're a podcaster. Everyone's a goddamn podcaster. You started from there.

[Rob Mahoney]

I got bad news. We are not pseudo celebrities.

[Justin Verrier]

I think you are to a certain. We are random guy.

[Rob Mahoney]

We are just some guys with microphones.

[Justin Verrier]

Really cool type of guy. Rob is the guy.

[Big Waz]

So funny.

[Rob Mahoney]

Jesus Christ.

[Justin Verrier]

But we have been assembled here in person in Los Angeles, two Angelenos, one former one, to do our annual exercise that is the preseason power rankings of the NBA. We should mention we're doing this a little bit earlier in order to do it on video so you can see our lovely faces on camera and just send a bunch of strong commentary about how we look, our mannerisms, our. Our little quirks. Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

So you sound like a man who's been just, like, under the microscope lately. Are you. Are you feeling the scrutiny? Are you feeling observed?

[Justin Verrier]

I want to be observed. I spent all off season in the gym.

[Big Waz]

Oh, wow.

[Justin Verrier]

Getting fit. I. I know you. You can't tell because I have all these layers of flannel on. But, you know, you take this top coat off.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes. You're doing it the right way. That's a powerful. The secret buff is a powerful thing. You take off the overture, and all of a sudden it's like, whoa, have you seen Justin?

[Justin Verrier]

I wouldn't say buff quite yet, but, like, things.

[Big Waz]

Things a little bit more firm, you know? I mean, listen, you're, like, chopping trees in your backyard and, like, doing, like, a lot of manual labor, so it makes sense that you're becoming more firm as you just said.

[Justin Verrier]

Yes. I am built for the harsh environs of Portland these days.

[Rob Mahoney]

What?

[Big Waz]

You were about to say, you're built for town.

[Justin Verrier]

Not quite.

[Rob Mahoney]

No. I wouldn't go that far.

[Justin Verrier]

I mean, if we get the appropriate sponsorship, I am definitely willing to say.

[Rob Mahoney]

That I look forward to that.

[Big Waz]

There you go.

[Justin Verrier]

But I am built for. For six separate pods, which is what we are going to do. We're going to start from the bottom up, number 30. So this is what we typically do. So if you're familiar with the show, you should be familiar with this exercise. We basically just rank every team 1 to 30. We aggregate them or I do, because I do all the work. And then Isaiah Blakely breaks any ties that we have. Then we have our list. We're going to talk about each team in depth. We got an existential question for each of them and then also we're going to name some guys or things.

[Rob Mahoney]

Can I just say this one in particular? 30 to 26, my favorite podcast we do all year. Just absolute sicko shit. And you know, the fact that there is any audience whatsoever for us talking about these particular teams is just an incredible luxury. And grace and I, I thank, I thank both of you. I think the NBA world, I think the fellow sickos out there.

[Justin Verrier]

Yeah.

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[Justin Verrier]

This episode is brought to you by Warner Brothers Pictures. One Battle After Another is coming to theaters September 26th. Don't miss legendary writer, director and producer my guy, Paul Thomas Anderson teaming up with Leo DiCaprio for the first time ever. Pretty exciting. They almost. They almost teamed together in Boogie Nights actually alongside award winning actors like Sean Penn, Teyana Taylor and Benicio Del Toro in this hilarious action packed adventure following Bob Ferguson, an ex revolutionary, on a mission to find his missing daughter and overcome the consequences of his past. One Battle After Another. Only in theaters September 26th. Get tickets now. Rated R under 17. Not admitted without parent.

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[Justin Verrier]

Pick up.

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[Justin Verrier]

With that note, we're gonna start number 30. We've got the Utah Jazz.

[Rob Mahoney]

Who else could it be?

[Justin Verrier]

We. Well, you guys both Picked the Jazz. I did not have them at 30. I actually had them at 29. I don't know if I regret that in retrospect, because now I'm looking through all the rosters, I'm like, this team doesn't have a lot of talent outside of our guy, Laurie Markkanen.

[Big Waz]

It's tough. I think they had one of the more clarifying off seasons for the team. Cause it's felt like previous seasons since Ainge got in there. We all knew they needed to strip it down and, like, try to get new young talent via the draft in there. And they had a bunch of NBA rotation guys on the team, and it's like, guys, you need to get rid of them if you want to fully embrace the destiny that's so obviously in front of you. But, you know, they basically decided Danny Ainge did, as is his custom, that he wanted nothing but perfect trades for these guys. And it feels like the process kind of got drawn out longer than I think it needed to. But this off season, they kind of were like, all right, we're. We're done with this charade of, like, pretending to be rebuilding but also, like, being competitive.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Big Waz]

And, you know, the John Collins move for me. Cause it's just like they were just like, we just don't want you on the team anymore.

[Justin Verrier]

Just dumping players for nothing.

[Big Waz]

Just dumped them.

[Justin Verrier]

Colin Sexton. Yeah, Clarkson.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's where it's like, good news, bad news. Because you're right, they have cleaner the decks and some room for these younger guys to do different things. But waiting that long meant they got almost nothing in return for these players who were an important part of their team in some respects.

[Justin Verrier]

Yes, the rarely seen double tank. We have tanked, but not as well as we should. So are we going to ensure that we're going to tank as hard as possible this season?

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, can I just say, in light of losing the Cooper flag lottery, that wasn't untrue. I'm not saying they could have improved their odds meaningfully, but this is a team that was just, I think, devastated by where they landed in the draft order. And we'll see what happens with Ace. Maybe he turns out to be exactly the kind of, like, shot creating star that they need long term. I don't know. But this is a team that desperately needed the hope of someone like Cooper and just did not have the ping pong balls go their way.

[Justin Verrier]

Yeah, that probably segues nicely to our existential question, which is, is Laurie Markkanen a keeper or just a walking bundle of future draft picks because he's the guy kind of caught in the middle of these two different eras. The, the sword of Tank and then the full on Tank era. Uh, I don't know. Woz, what do you think? Do you think that, like, they should just get rid of him because he doesn't fit, or would you keeping him around and just see what can happen?

[Big Waz]

I think the way that they've built the roster now with all of these young guys, I think it would make most sense to move on from him and just decide internally what's the basement you're willing to take for the guy and shop him. That's what I think would be the smartest thing to do. And I think the best teams in the league could all use this guy. And he is one of these guys that can scale in terms of he can bring what he's doing to any situation. He doesn't need the pieces to be extraordinarily complimentary. He's going to compliment whatever competent outfit he ends up on. And so that's what I think makes it easier and even more fun to think about because I can't think of a team in the league who can't use what this guy brings to the table.

[Rob Mahoney]

Totally. It's the reason you give him $196 million. It's not because he's a superstar. It's because he's beneficial to any situation. He's imminently tradable. He's also their best player, like, by a wide, wide margin. And so I understand the tension point. I just don't understand why, like, who does it benefit to keep him around as a member of the Utah Jazz? At this point, there are all these young guys that need reps. His existence on the roster, I think, forces you into some tough lineup decisions in terms of like, if you're going to. Lowry obviously needs to start, but that means like, like Kyle Filipowski was one of the bright spots of last season. Are you going to bring him in off the bench? Are you going to like, give short.

[Big Waz]

Trafski hive over here?

[Rob Mahoney]

I did not say that. But like, if you are the Jazz, what else are you endeavoring to do? Like, you should be investing in guys like Philip Howski, investing in guys like Hendricks, investing in guys like Cody Williams and seeing like, what do we have here? And Lowry Markkanen is helping you be slightly more competent now, but by the time your team is good again, he's going to be nearing the end of his deal, entering into his early 30s, and then like, what are you doing here?

[Justin Verrier]

Or he's just sitting on the sidelines because he hasn't been playing much of the past two seasons. 47 games last year, 55 the year before that. He was an all Star. And I have to say if you look at Lauri Markkanen shot chart, especially from that all Star season in his first year in Utah, it is a Darryl Morey wet dream.

[Big Waz]

Yeah.

[Justin Verrier]

And it's not just the layups and threes model, which is typically what you hear about that. It's also the dunks, the power at the rim. I was looking into this, this guy at in his all star season. 200 made threes.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Justin Verrier]

100 made dunks. I couldn't find a single player who's ever had a season like that. So you have finishing and you have three point shooting. It's really like maps on to virtually any roster at this point.

[Big Waz]

And to me I think about when I think about marketing, I think about the Jimmy Butler deal in the sense that Golden State was just on a treadmill of mediocrity the entire season. They got Jimmy in there and it took them from. All right. Also ran to be like okay, this is a team that like needs to be reckoned with now. And I think that's what marketing can do for a team he can take you from all right. You're a nice nibbling on the edges of the playoffs to Whoa. Like you could give anybody a tough series. We're talking about the top of the league, a tough goal of it if your team is healthy enough relatively. So that's why I think I'm excited about the prospect that he would move somewhere because I think he can do that for a team. Take you from eh. That's nice to Whoa. We're working with something.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean he's a big time ceiling raiser and particularly like if you are a team that plays a traditional sort of pick and roll style. He just like helps your spacing, he helps your movement. He does a lot of very natural, easy things that help you. But if you play in flow and you can get into what you're talking about Justin, which is the. The mobility that makes him both a threat to shoot off the move and a threat to drive and finish inside with all that length like that. Versatility is what can really transform you as a team.

[Justin Verrier]

Yes, we have shooting bigs but somehow Markkanen still manages to play big while functioning more like your typical wing shooter, which is very rare. The one difference between him and a lot of other guys that are Potentially on the market. Big old fat contract. I do wonder how much, especially considering the off season we just came off of, where a lot of teams are blanching about the money on their Brooks. A lot of teams just kind of nipping at the edges of that second apron. Uh, he makes $46.4 million this season and it just keeps going up. Good work.

[Rob Mahoney]

Get it.

[Justin Verrier]

Which is great for him, but I think for a team that wants to trade for somebody for immediate help, it's like, who has that open space in.

[Big Waz]

Order to do so?

[Justin Verrier]

Do you guys have any teams you like as sort of like a marketing suitor?

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, it's been going around the ringer. Michael Pena wrote about it for the site. But Detroit is such a juicy fit. Yeah, like think about, you know, how much of a difference Tobias Harris made for that team. What if you replaced Tobias Harris with the best possible version of that player type and someone who's more malleable and adjustable, who could help? You know, I think the question is whether Jaden Ivey would be involved in that deal. I would presume that he would be.

[Justin Verrier]

I wouldn't do it for Ivey.

[Rob Mahoney]

So you're, you're too like enticed by Ivey's potential.

[Justin Verrier]

I'm enticed by Ivey, but I'm also worried about the shooting. If you're relying on an Asar or a Ron Holland to step into that void because they went out and got a lot of plug and play shooters in order to spot the Malik Beasley and the Tim Hardaway Jr. Malik Beasley bag. Well, we'll see, we'll see about that one.

[Rob Mahoney]

We might be able to bring Malik Beasley back coming soon to the Ringer podcast network.

[Justin Verrier]

But I would want to rely on shooting from my core guys as opposed to these hired goons essentially. And if you're not, it's a lot of Markkanen and Cade with three potential non shooters as your core guys. That's the only thing I'm worried about.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean you can shoot the fucking lines off the ball like you could. I think that's where if you're trying to figure out how do we make these pieces fit? Markin is the kind of pressure release that helps, but I really like Ivy. I think the reason it could be enticing for both teams is the Jazz from a guard perspective, incredibly bleak. And if you want a reason why Lowry Markkin and when he did play last season didn't feel exactly like Lowry Markkanen, I don't know. They don't have a point guard who's functional and experienced. Like, you know, they're getting assists, they're. They technically have point guards out there, but this is a team that could not run baseline offense, and that's a huge problem. And part of what you need is someone like Jaden Ivey.

[Big Waz]

Yeah. And to me, marketing, he's not. He's not somebody who you just give him the ball and be like, soak up, you know, a trillion possessions. But I think that's the appeal, honestly, is that he's not that kind of innings eater, so to speak. It's that, you know, he's. He's opening things up for all of your guys because of his gravity, and he's happy to just be super efficient with the touches that he does get and doesn't need, like, an offensive overhaul. Right. Like, you don't need to rejigger your entire offense to put this guy in there. And I think Detroit, because. And that's the thing. Like, is Cade gonna start playing a different brand of creator?

[Rob Mahoney]

That might be a question for part three or four of this podcast.

[Big Waz]

You know what I mean? And so if he's going to be the K that we've seen, then marketing makes a lot of freaking sense.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Justin Verrier]

Well, we were talking about some guards on Utah Jazz. Should we name some guys?

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, Isaiah Collier is a guy who demands to be named again. They're. They're like nominal point guard. Led rookies, like, by a huge margin in assists. So, like, was doing his part. The problem is he can't score. He's not a threat to score. The bigger problem is everyone knows it. No one treats him as a threat in any capacity whatsoever. And it's like the constant problem with them. And part of the reason someone like Ace is so appealing is who is like, an actual threat that people are responding to. Who's not Lowry Markkanen. The answer right now, especially in a world where Colin Sexton is not a member of the Jazz anymore. Jordan Clarkson is not a member of the Jazz anymore. John Collins is not a member of the Jazz anymore. Who is the next player in line after Lowry?

[Big Waz]

Sweet, sweet Red. Keonte George, baby.

[Rob Mahoney]

I have to say the answer does not seem to be Keonte George, But I am ready to be proven wrong if he turns a corner.

[Justin Verrier]

Let's talk about Keonte George, though.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Justin Verrier]

Because I can't tell if he's good, even though I do realize and recognize that he does have some real juice to his game.

[Big Waz]

He does, theoretically. What is he good at?

[Justin Verrier]

Scoring. But not efficiently.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Justin Verrier]

Okay. Yes. In fact, I have a nice little stat for you guys. There are three players since the three point era, so 1980, so 79, 80, who have taken 12 or more field goal attempts from the floor and shot under 40% from the floor.

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, no.

[Justin Verrier]

Over their careers. It is Keonte George, Alex Saar who we'll get to very shortly and Brandon Jennings.

[Rob Mahoney]

Shout out to BRANDON JENNINGS Since 1980, our colleague in podcasting.

[Justin Verrier]

It's just he clearly has something. But I do think maybe moving to a bench role perhaps into that Jordan Clarkson slot that is now open.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Justin Verrier]

Might benefit him.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, it already started like you. You could see the Jazz already kind of leaning in that direction. And I think that's where somewhere like Bryce Sensabaugh kind of quietly shuffled into a nice little supporting role as more of a traditional three and D wing spot up role playing kind of guard for them. And they need some of that like they need stars, but they also need guys who operate in like a functional, competent capacity doing normal NBA things. And they're still searching for all that. They have guards who aren't threats, they have wings who don't really know how to play yet. Forwards who are like versatile but kind of untapped and if sensible is like a. Just a good three point shooter like he proved to be over, you know, most of last season, that's like a meaningful thing for them and I think ultimately more important for where they are right now than Keante George coming in and shooting 38%.

[Big Waz]

Somebody's gotta do a bulk of the ball handling. Now. Even, you know, Clayton Jr. Who I like, you're not gonna give him the ball and say, handle the rock all day, rookie. Like that's not gonna be his strength. So I don't know who's gonna do the dribbling here.

[Justin Verrier]

Yeah, I actually like the runcourt. Cause it is Walker, Kessler, Hendricks, you presume, will be healthy and starting again. And if Laurie's there like three through five, that's actually not bad.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's not bad. They've got some guys 3 through 5. Why did they trade for Yusuf Nurkic?

[Justin Verrier]

I don't know.

[Rob Mahoney]

Why is he on this team?

[Justin Verrier]

I don't know why. Several of the players that they brought in, Kevin Love is still there as we're recording this.

[Rob Mahoney]

I was looking up, he's 19 years older than Ace Bailey.

[Big Waz]

I mean, I think it's nice to have some adults in the room.

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, for sure.

[Justin Verrier]

We got gang kids, we got slow Mo. They really packed it with some, some Known guys, Serious people.

[Big Waz]

Yeah.

[Justin Verrier]

Anybody else here? Is Cody Williams good?

[Rob Mahoney]

Unclear.

[Justin Verrier]

I think it's no.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think the early returns were not encouraging. But again, it's like you want to know for sure. And I think that's part of the issue they have with their front court right now is like with all of these wings and a glut of guards who are going to play but maybe don't deserve consistent minutes, are you going to be able to look at all the forwards you want to actually take a look at this season? That's. I mean, it's Will Hardy's problem and not ours, thankfully, but a big problem for the Jazz.

[Justin Verrier]

Yes. Ace Backdoor is going to get what he wants. He's going to get a lot of opportunity because there's nobody else here, especially if they trade Laura Marketing.

[Rob Mahoney]

I did see they had 46 different starting lineups last season over under 46 starting lineups for the Utah Jazz in 25, 26.

[Justin Verrier]

I'm going to go under, I would hope. Yeah, I think they're going to be consistent, but consistently bad. Yeah, is what I would guess.

[Big Waz]

Yeah, they're going to find a lineup that leads to a lot of losses and stick to it.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's right. Got to do it.

[Justin Verrier]

Well, another team with that same sort of blueprint, the Brooklyn Nets.

[Rob Mahoney]

So was this year number 30?

[Justin Verrier]

Number 30, yes. Although since we did the voting, they've just been adding good players for free, which is always nice. They had Heywood Highsmith coming in there, Kobe Bufkin. The Hawks are just giving them just like guys on their bench that they don't need anymore because they have this reservoir of cap space in order to just take all of the flotsam and everything you don't want. I have to say there's been like a mild bit of like just ribbing of the Brooklyn Nets over the off season because of what they did. And I think part of it is because they went ahead and drafted five players in the first round and I have to say, deservedly so. That was a little bit weird. I didn't think they were going to do all five, but overall, I don't see what else that they were going to do besides what they've done now, which is just rent their cast, base out, get future assets and just build toward a future because they don't have that one guy to build around. So they're still searching for that until they get that this is what a team does.

[Big Waz]

Yeah, yeah, they got. It was a tough situation for them in the draft lottery this year making all the picks like, as opposed to what? Just giving them away for free or, you know, for the promise of some future picks that are probably going to be equally as bad.

[Justin Verrier]

Just keep trading back and back and back and back like Brad Stevens did.

[Big Waz]

One year. Yeah, no, we're going to draft past 25 next year instead. It's like, what would have been the point of that?

[Justin Verrier]

I actually think the problem is more that Sean Marks has been given an opportunity to right the wrongs that he made himself. And so there is a little bit of just like fan dissonance where it's like, that guy fucked up. Why is he still in charge?

[Big Waz]

Kind of crazy in sports.

[Justin Verrier]

You don't get second chances in life.

[Rob Mahoney]

Many people are asking this in many areas of life right now. Why? Why is anyone being allowed to fix the shit that they created is a constant question. But as far as those guys go, I'm kind of of two minds about it. Because one, if you are picking in the like teens into the 20s, picking two guys in the 20s who were like a little redundant is not really a problem. You are taking two separate dice rolls and hoping one of them works. Now, if they start getting in the way of each other having minutes, then it's a problem. If they start getting in the way of each other having creation, then it's a problem. I would say the bigger problem on that front is you have two players who are not stars, who believe that they are stars.

[Big Waz]

And who might those two players be?

[Rob Mahoney]

You know, Dahron Sharp and Noah Clowney. Like, how much oxygen are Michael Porter Jr. And Cam Thomas going to kind of suck out of the room, developmentally speaking. Both good players who I like in some capacities, not in leading a team capacities.

[Justin Verrier]

Michael Porter Jr. Had an interesting summer.

[Big Waz]

Yes, probably the best summer in the NBA. He was on a tear. Talk about great podcasters. I mean, Porter Jr. I'm a little bit less so. Cause even when he has the impulse to kind of ball hog, like, it goes bad quickly, you know, like it becomes obvious. It becomes obvious that what he's doing isn't gonna work. Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

But is it obvious to him?

[Big Waz]

I think so. I think it will be under these circumstances because he's not going to have any oxygen on this team. Like, teams are just going to load up on him. And he's not the kind of player that is good being loaded up against because as we know, he's got limitations as a passer. It's Cam Thomas on the other hand, who's going to actually have the ball a lot and is on a revenge tour to prove that he got lowballed on his contract offer. That's where I'm just like, okay, this is highly combustible.

[Justin Verrier]

And if you're going to like ding the five first, beyond just the obvious, this is funny that they took five players. Like, they all are of a similar type, which is they are playmakers with iffy jump shots. And so those guys presumably are going to have the ball. So I think Waz is right. There's only so much damage Porter can do. And if he does damage, as long as it's not like in the public sphere, like, and he's still. Who cares?

[Big Waz]

And he's still a floor spacer, right? Like, he still has to have an elite floor, ultimate respect of the team, as we know, because he told us he is only Steph Curry is the better shooter than him in the NBA. And so you have the second best shooter in the NBA allegedly. That's going to help your young guys.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's a real thing. Like, Michael Porter Jr. Is one of the best shooters for his size that the league has ever seen. Like at that size, at those dimensions. Incredible shooter. Cam Thomas, I thought, made meaningful strides last season in terms of reading the floor, in terms of what he was doing off the dribble. Like, he's always been able to fill it up and get to his spots. I thought he took a meaningful step forward. It's just not so much of a step forward that clearly the Nets feel comfortable giving him a huge deal. It wouldn't be so like so much of a step forward that it made me feel comfortable like handing him the keys to our franchise. But Justin, you talked about like the way that those young guys kind of fill in around that and the skill sets of the rookies. That to me is begging for our.

[Justin Verrier]

Existential question, which is, thank you, Rob. Which current players will be on the roster the next time Brooklyn is a contender?

[Rob Mahoney]

So I think there's the. There's the easy answer and there's the kind of more naughty answer. The easy answer to me is probably Drake Powell, who they just drafted is like the safest bet as like this guy is just going to be an NBA role player kicking around rosters for a while. Will he be a meaningful part of the future contending Nets? I don't know.

[Justin Verrier]

The one non playmaker type exactly.

[Rob Mahoney]

Just kind of like you can slot him on the wing. You understand what he does. Well, he's going to hold his own defensively, just kind of like easy to find Room for in a lineup and on a roster. The more difficult ones to me are the playmakers. But for me, like I think one of Jagor Dioman or Ben Sarof are gonna work. I don't know which one yet. And for me personally, I like making time and space and I think winning teams make time and space for these sorts of playmaking wings. Now Vigor Yomin is more of like a wannabe point guard who just like doesn't have the juice to do it. That's a problem if he can be a facilitating 2, 3. I think we're getting into an interesting conversation.

[Justin Verrier]

Do you hear that pronunciation preseason pod 1. He's already got a little accent a good on there.

[Big Waz]

Nolan Traore, you know. No. No votes for him.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, not.

[Big Waz]

Not yet for me, the 19 year old.

[Rob Mahoney]

We'll see.

[Big Waz]

Yeah, I'm not seeing it. I think Rob is right in terms of Drake Powell. Like sure, maybe he'll just be their seventh man. But like this team is like two, three years from any.

[Rob Mahoney]

At least I'm taking the over on two to three years. Probably.

[Big Waz]

Yeah. Three years from now they might be as good as Detroit is.

[Rob Mahoney]

That'd be great now. That'd be great.

[Justin Verrier]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

If you could feel as good as Detroit does right now in three years.

[Big Waz]

As the Brooklyn Nets, that'll be the case.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think that's a win.

[Justin Verrier]

It might be. I would take the under in that. If only because of their pick obligations. They do only have really this immediate Runway in order to stack young players and then they have to figure things out. They're not like the Jazz who can keep rolling it over and over and over again. They really do have to figure. But I would assume their answer probably comes in free agency. And so I think you're right. I think that players that they need to develop are guys that they could fill in around them. Because there was talk this offseason about like, oh, what if they got into the Giannis derby? I'm like, once they trade everything in order to get Giannis, what is he? Who's he playing with? It wouldn't even have been Michael Porter.

[Rob Mahoney]

It would not. I think for that reason, I also would not be shocked if day Ron Sharp is the backup center for the next good Nets team. Like it. It is just like who can hang on who does. Who does the coaching staff or the front office like have an attachment to because they drafted them or developed them or whatever. Like who can be a role player on that team is kind of what a lot of these guys are Shooting for and may a high level role player, maybe a fringe all star someday. But those would be kind of extreme outcomes.

[Big Waz]

I could also see Nick Claxton being the Miles Turner.

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh yeah.

[Big Waz]

Of the next.

[Justin Verrier]

Tried to trade him for 10 years.

[Big Waz]

And he just ends up sticking around and being on the next good team.

[Justin Verrier]

Yes. I think they love him as the shining example of we took this guy from A and now he's at B and never got to D or anything else down the Alphabet. But like we love that we got him there. Do you guys like any of the free players that they basically acquired this offseason? We got Heywood Highsmith, Terrence Mann, Kobe Bufkin, any Buffkin buffs.

[Big Waz]

I've always been a Terrence Mann guy in terms of like, he plays hard, he's really versatile. You know, on a real team, like there's always like a plug and play aspect. Like, all right, we wanted you to guard a bigger guard. You could do a little bit of ball handling duty. You can be one of our better transition players. I always like him as a Swiss army knife kind of guy and also just as like a level headed human. Being in the locker room I think is a dope, dope thing for them. But yeah, Highsmith, like, what's he gonna do for this team?

[Rob Mahoney]

I do like him. I do think also like taking on Terrence Mann's contract to get Drake Powell. Basically, like that's good NBA business. I don't have any problem with anything that's happening there with where the Nets are.

[Justin Verrier]

I mean it isn't Jon Hansen, but we'll take it.

[Rob Mahoney]

We're all playing at different levels in field otherwise. Like, I mean I, I look, I like Heywood Highsmith. Does he change anything for the Brooklyn Nets?

[Big Waz]

That's what I mean. I don't think he's like a bad player, but, but he is a type.

[Rob Mahoney]

Of player they don't have a lot of. They have a lot.

[Justin Verrier]

He's aspiring too, so I imagine he will be moving on elsewhere. I think he's good for that reason. I actually kind of like Kobe Buffkin.

[Rob Mahoney]

What, what are your hopes and dreams for Kobe Buffkin?

[Justin Verrier]

Well, for one, I want him to play.

[Rob Mahoney]

I would like that.

[Justin Verrier]

Through two seasons, 27 games. So do we even know who he's 20. He just turned 22 years old. He's back with Duan Howard, his former coach from Michigan.

[Rob Mahoney]

There you go.

[Justin Verrier]

I just think he's a free recent lottery pick or right below that. Just let him play through his mistakes.

[Rob Mahoney]

This is where I Get a little nervous sometimes because it's like I want the young guys to get their chances and sometimes just like the wrong place, the wrong rotation, whatever. I also do kind of trust Quinn Snyder's basketball sensibilities, at least in terms of who should be playing. And if he's not good enough for a Hawks team that could have used the stuff that he does theoretically, well, what does that say about Kobe Buffkin?

[Justin Verrier]

I honestly don't know any other guys or things.

[Rob Mahoney]

What else we got with the Brooklyn Nets? I mean, they turned over basically their entire guard rotation. Especially if you want to tilt it back a little bit, you know, like really giving up all of that responsibility, all of that playmaking to what's going to be a bunch of very young, very inexperienced players for a team that already like worked so hard to play over its head and win 26 games. It's going to be bad. This is going to be a very bad team.

[Big Waz]

They're going to stink.

[Justin Verrier]

The only, like a caveat, I guess, to that would just be that they managed to do well at the start of last season. So much so that they really had to jettison players because Jordy Fernandez was just very good.

[Rob Mahoney]

Jordy's a good coach.

[Big Waz]

He's a good ass coach making chicken salad.

[Rob Mahoney]

And I have no idea if it's going to work in the NBA, but I am eager to see the Danny Wolf era of Brooklyn Nets basketball. Let him cook. Let him do his thing. Look like Cam Thomas and Michael Porter Jr. Are not out here. Like passing every time they touch the ball. Like, we need some facilitators out there. We need some spacers. I hope Danny Wolfe can, can play meaningful rotation minutes and we'll have to see kind of where he fits into the rotation. Exactly.

[Justin Verrier]

All right, next team on the docket, number one in my heart, it's the Washington Wizards, your new favorite league pass team.

[Rob Mahoney]

Now we're talking.

[Justin Verrier]

I am titillated.

[Rob Mahoney]

Woz does not seem chill weighted.

[Justin Verrier]

This team could be. You catch me at 4pm Pacific on November on a Wednesday. I am watching Washington Windsor basketball.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Big Waz]

And what are you watching for exactly?

[Justin Verrier]

Seeing some young guys do some dumbass shit.

[Big Waz]

Okay. Got you.

[Rob Mahoney]

Sometimes that's what life is all about.

[Justin Verrier]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Big Waz]

I mean, look, I think Sar showed some signs last year like that he could make his athleticism work for him at the position. That would be like what his, you know, sort of special gift is he. That damn game I was in Denver. He was. He looked phenomenal against the Nuggets that one night where he's like, he's flashing everything. Excuse me. Maybe the jumper will come together. I think that's gonna be kind of decide, in fact, if this guy's making corner threes at a normal, respectable clip, and he's doing and he's bringing what he brings defensively in terms of athleticism and paint protection and switchability, then he's a guy. But we are a long way from kickouts to that guy at three being something you want to see as a fan or a coach completely.

[Rob Mahoney]

But in the meantime, they're going to play fast.

[Big Waz]

Let him fly.

[Rob Mahoney]

They're going to play fast as hell. He's going to let him fly. All of these guards and wings are going to be able to, like, make decisions and make mistakes. They got rid of, I think, crucially, the two guys on the roster who are kind of like, sticks in the mud as far as, like, the overall operation. And so, like, I. I'm kind of with you. Just like, I would watch 82 Wizards games. Like, I would just dial it up in the same way that you watch Blue Bloods. Like, some of us just need a comfort watch.

[Justin Verrier]

Got you in the background.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Big Waz]

82 Wizards games.

[Rob Mahoney]

I would watch 82 Wizards game.

[Justin Verrier]

So here's the selling point for the Washington Wizards. If you're. If you're a doubter, like perhaps was. And this brings us to our existential question. Are the Wizards the best rebuilding team to be a fan of? There are 10 first round players on this team still on their rookie con.

[Rob Mahoney]

Let's go.

[Justin Verrier]

That is unbelievable. If you're someone who just wants to explore the space of young talent, this is the team for you.

[Big Waz]

Yeah, I mean, that young talent is Bub Carrington, though.

[Rob Mahoney]

I like Bub Carrington.

[Big Waz]

I'm not saying he's a bad player, but, like, you really, like, get up out of bed in the morning because you get to watch Bub Carrington, who.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's not about Bub Carrington specifically. It's like, there's Bub and there's AJ Johnson, who looked better for the Wizards than he ever had a chance to with the Bucks. It's, you know, Trey Johnson, who will see kind of how he fits into all this, where he plays, plays how much. But very interesting young shooter and player. Like, I'm still a Keyshawn George guy. I have no idea what to expect from Will Riley, Balal Koulibaly, Cam Whitmore. Like, there are so many young guys to the point that I'm excited for Cam Whitmore to play, but Also, how much is he gonna play? I don't know.

[Justin Verrier]

Probably not.

[Rob Mahoney]

Probably not.

[Justin Verrier]

But this is the one team where too many guys I think works in their benefit because if one of those guys isn't hitting, they're just cycling through guys.

[Rob Mahoney]

They also have the benefit. Like these other really low ranked rebuilding teams are all in their ways. Exercises in frustration. It's, we just tried this thing and it failed and now we have to reboot again. It's, we were waiting for the Lowry Markkanen deal after losing in the lottery. It's like, who is really peddling hope right now? And I think the Wizards are one of these teams that actually has a lot to hope for. Like, they're going to have their own pick because of its protections. They're going to be relying on a lot of young players. They're going to play this really energizing style. I think they're going to come out of this year feeling good about where they are. I can't tell you exactly which young guys are going to be the reason for that, but they have enough of them that I think some of them are just going to hit.

[Justin Verrier]

Yeah. I think the one thing to counter that would be how much structure are these young guys willing to be beholden to. I think Cam Whitmore is the prime example of someone who's had a reasonable amount of success in this league. Is he basically going to be like, no, this is my showcase and I'm going to blow this shit up. I do think Bilal Koulibale, who is set for surgery on his thumb, is going to miss. The start of the season opens the doorway for Ken Whitmer not only to start to be a featured guy, and as we've seen for the Wizards and any of these rebuilding teams, you could stack them with as many veterans as you want. Those guys are going to be playing sometimes and when they do play, they might not even play into the second half as we saw with the Wizards, specifically with the Marcus smart types and some other ones. That's the new way of tanking, where it's like you look at the box score and it seems like that guy played, but did he actually, yeah. And So I think C.J. mcCollum, good vet.

[Big Waz]

Yeah.

[Justin Verrier]

Chris Middleton, very good vet to have there. Seemed like he played that role well for them last season. How long are they going to be around and what happens after that?

[Big Waz]

Yeah. And I think the only thing about the Wizards, I don't want to say they're cautionary, but it's like to Me, they're the best example of why it's. To me, it feels like foolhardy for people to get overly excited about the picks.

[Rob Mahoney]

Sure.

[Big Waz]

Right. Because they do have a bunch of young guys on their team, but nobody thinks they've identified a franchise cornerstone as of yet. And they've picked high in the draft. And I get it, like they finally moved away from the old, you know, Ernie Grunfeld model of perpetual mediocrity. But even still, even when you do that, you still have to have some patience because I don't know that they've identified yet. You know, they might still be in moving in the, in the direction of trying to get that guy completely via the draft.

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't think we have any reason to think that the guy is necessarily here yet. Unless Trey is that guy. Like he's a, maybe a potential like eye popping scorer that they've been missing. Like Bub can fill it up. He certainly has his, his strengths as a creator in that way, but I don't think he's quite at that level. Maybe Trey will be, maybe he won't. But I think the combination of having a lot of guys who could be interesting in something, plus those two veterans you talked about, jv, who are, I think are just going to be in trade discussions all year in addition to everything else. Part of the reason this is exciting is because of all those young guys and the future pick and also the fact that they're positioned to basically turn over every expensive piece of their roster next year. This is a team that's positioned up like $100 million in cap space. So there's a lot to work with here and a lot to be excited about and a lot of conversations for guys like us to have about who's going to trade for Chris Middleton, who's going to trade for CJ McCollum.

[Justin Verrier]

Yeah. Another team like the Jazz who's waiting for a star in order to build things around. But I do like some of the pieces they've assembled perhaps to support that player when he gets there. I think SAR is a prime example of that. Not quite of a star or a SAR star, but, but seems like a high level role player type who will fit around virtually everything. I think Trey's another one of those guys. I'm curious, is he going to be Ray Allen at the end of his career or Ray Allen at the beginning of his career? Like how much actual dribble juice does he have in order to score for himself or is he going to be the type of guy you want running off of screens, more catch and shoot sort of player.

[Rob Mahoney]

Um, but he said scouts seem to heavily disagree on that.

[Justin Verrier]

Yes.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think that is the central dividing point with him. Among the people who love Trey and the people who are a little skeptical is like, how much of an on the drib, like, off the dribble player is he actually going to be?

[Justin Verrier]

Yes. He didn't seem to love being off the ball in college at several points at Texas.

[Rob Mahoney]

Hook him, though.

[Justin Verrier]

Absolutely. Who do you think starts for this team?

[Big Waz]

You know what?

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't know really.

[Justin Verrier]

I think it's actually pretty set.

[Rob Mahoney]

Really?

[Justin Verrier]

I think it's C.J.

[Rob Mahoney]

Mccollum. Okay.

[Justin Verrier]

Chris Middleton, Saar and I assume Whitmore will start as a nominal four with Bilal out.

[Rob Mahoney]

But what about when ball's back?

[Justin Verrier]

Probably below. Unless Whitmore just goes gangbusters. I think actually the debate is at the tune.

[Big Waz]

You're gonna start Chris Middleton and C.J. mcCollum.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think they will start.

[Big Waz]

Jesus.

[Justin Verrier]

But will they finish? I think it's gonna.

[Rob Mahoney]

And with Chris, the question is always like, when is he helping play? Will he play? Will he be on a load management defensively?

[Big Waz]

That's. That's ugly.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, they're not going to be good on defensive defense.

[Big Waz]

Yeah, but like, don't you want to try to be good at defense?

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, but sometimes. Honestly, a CJ McCollum veteran defender, while not good and flawed, is still sometimes a little bit more of a young guy better than the young guy. Well, in a, like, you were in the right place and you can show these other guys how to be in the right places kind of way.

[Big Waz]

Huge target.

[Rob Mahoney]

He is a big target.

[Big Waz]

He was a target at 23.

[Rob Mahoney]

You know what? Maybe that'll save the younger defenders.

[Big Waz]

26. He was a target.

[Rob Mahoney]

Carrington isn't getting targeted if C.J. mcCollum's getting targeted. You know what I'm saying?

[Justin Verrier]

I think the question is, do you start bubbling or Trey next to C.J.

[Rob Mahoney]

That'S a tough call.

[Justin Verrier]

Yeah. Any. Any inklings?

[Rob Mahoney]

I would think Trey would start just based off the investment.

[Justin Verrier]

Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

The idea. The. The idea of taking a guy number six overall and then not even starting him on a rebuilding team. Unless you're just really sold on the player that Bub Carrington could be. I don't necessarily see that. I also think from a backup perspective, like, Bub Carrington is a little more comfortable on the ball, at least from what I've seen so far at an NBA level. And so the idea of bringing him off the bench in more of a combo capacity. Make sense to me because otherwise, who is your backup point guard? It might be like Malachi Branham or somebody like that.

[Justin Verrier]

Yeah, we'll see. Pour one out for. For goggles. Jordan Poole ERA on the Wizards.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, I'm okay with that.

[Justin Verrier]

We'll catch up with them later in this episode, it turns out. But first and foremost, we have the Charlotte hornets at number 27. A team that, as we're recording this a week advance of when this pod is coming out, doesn't really have a center still. Unless TD and Salon is just like gonna transition to just being big.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, Musa Diabate is standing right there. He's right there.

[Justin Verrier]

He definitely plays hard.

[Rob Mahoney]

He does.

[Justin Verrier]

I'll say that.

[Rob Mahoney]

My main concern with this is I just have. I just feel it in my bones that Mason Plumlee is going to be the day one starter and I already hate it.

[Big Waz]

That's.

[Rob Mahoney]

I hope that's wrong. I hope he's just. I hope he's just there for veteran.

[Big Waz]

Influence, because that is so dumb.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think we have a lot of empirical proof that Mason Plumlee is not an NBA player anymore and he is going to at least play.

[Justin Verrier]

You could always go home, you know, maybe it will unearth the dog in him. But they do have a ton of guards after this off season, bringing in Colin Sexton for virtually nothing. They got Pat Connaughton on this roster via a dump for our guy, Vasili Micic. We miss you, my brother. But they also still have Lamelo Ball on this team, despite the fact that he has been in trade rumors relentlessly for what, two, three years at this point? And so I think we should start with the existential question is whether or not these yokel can finally make a decision with Lamelo Ball. Because I have to say I'm getting a little tired because this guy, yes, he hasn't played recently and yes, he is a bit of a goofball, but he did make an all star team and he was rookie of the year. Like, at a certain point. You can't just keep turning over teams when you already have that. Like the Jazz are turning over a team that didn't have much of anything, right? Whereas this team has Lamelo Ball and Brandon Miller, who can make an all star team this year, by the way. And now they're talking about, oh, we just need more talent here. We just can't deal with these guys. We need to get this guy out of here. Just like make it work. Well, who.

[Rob Mahoney]

Who was it that they Let go or traded away that you were like, man, the Hornets really blew it. Mark Williams letting that guy out the door.

[Justin Verrier]

It's not so much that it would be trying to trade Lamelo at this point, as opposed to putting your foot in the ground and being like, let's just, like, see what we have here.

[Big Waz]

Yes, so I hear you. But I think the Luka Doncic trade and his subsequent off season is very instructive in terms of I don't think LaMelo Ball can become a serious professional in Charlotte. It would have to be somewhere else where he's been less exalted and just been treated like the prince that was promised since the day he walked in the door. I just think it's gonna happen in Charlotte. Just like, Luka ain't turning skinny this offseason if he's still in Dallas.

[Rob Mahoney]

Cause the Tex Mex or what.

[Big Waz]

That and a variety of other things. But, like, I just don't think that's gonna happen. Like, anybody who's been around, Luka knows, like, sort of what his offseason regiment has been. His whole thing has just been like, look, I show up and put up all NBA first team type of numbers. Don't talk to me about what I could be doing better. Would have never happened in Dallas. And this is a team that was, like, getting close to greatness. They were going to NBA finals and conference championships, and he wouldn't have got it in his head that he needed to take it more serious to get over the hump. What's a guy who's known nothing but perpetual losing and been rewarded for it at every single turn? Why would. Why is he gonna do this in Charlotte?

[Justin Verrier]

Can we get Lamelo on the COVID of Men's Health in Charlotte?

[Big Waz]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

On what grounds?

[Justin Verrier]

Just get swole. I'll take him to the gym.

[Rob Mahoney]

Okay.

[Justin Verrier]

We'll do a couple supersets.

[Rob Mahoney]

Look, I'm here for it. I'm here for anything that can professionalize the LaMelo Ball experience. Because Lord knows, and Pod knows, one of my red flags. I am a LaMelo Ball believer. Like, I see the vision. I believe in him as a player. I don't believe in the work habits. I don't believe in who he is as a professional. Absolutely. I think the reality check was. Is one. The losing you described, like, consistently losing, trying to do it your way. Yeah. There are some guys who need a change of scenery. Some guys take a look at the win totals and are just like, I can't do that again. Something needs to change, and maybe it's the talent, but maybe it's also me. And I think with him specifically, we're now running on like, three straight years of lamelo ball, only played X number of games. So there is clearly a health component that is not just bad luck. There is a. There is a, like, ankle stability. Like, you need to take the physical part of your job and stability and weight training and muscle building a little more seriously, among other things.

[Justin Verrier]

I'm here, man. Let's get those Steph Curry trap bar deadlifts going.

[Rob Mahoney]

So.

[Big Waz]

So this is the year. I didn't say that Lamello ball's gonna look around and be like, wait a second, Colin Sexton's here. I gotta clean up my shot selection.

[Justin Verrier]

I think that is the question.

[Big Waz]

You just got cod canipple.

[Rob Mahoney]

I gotta.

[Big Waz]

I gotta be better with the crazy passes.

[Justin Verrier]

I gotta get my together. Khan's gonna be on me today.

[Big Waz]

Why would it happen this season is what I'm asking, you know? Cause, like, things do change for players a little bit later in their career. You know, I think about a guy like Paul Pierce, who, when it was the. Him and Antwan early Celtics, they were going to the playoffs. All of that, he had tasted that. Then it fell off of a cliff and he was beginning to develop, I'm not gonna lie, a lamelo ball ish kind of reputation. Like, yo, this guy's a loser. This guy doesn't have the winning habits. This guy doesn't take it seriously enough. This guy's going out. This guy's blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Then KG gets in there and it's a. It's like, yo, like, I can be way more serious.

[Justin Verrier]

He also got stabbed.

[Big Waz]

Well, that's what I'm saying. You know what I mean? Like, these clarifying incidents happen, you know, but this is. He's not in year five of his career when it happens. He's way older when it happens. And like, these are crazy interventions. KG and Ray Allen. And all of a sudden you're just like part of a brand new kind of team.

[Rob Mahoney]

Like, this is not a brand new time. Yeah. Brand new kind of team. Yet.

[Big Waz]

This is more just getting paid ungodly sums of money to do clown stuff.

[Justin Verrier]

That's what we say about Rob. When. Because I think we got to watch out for him when he's going out into the club. It's true in Los Angeles, but I think if you were to be stabbed, you would turn things around for the.

[Rob Mahoney]

I would change a lot if I got stabbed.

[Big Waz]

Yeah, I think so.

[Rob Mahoney]

Was, you know, you threw out the Colin Sexton thing as like kind of a dig is.

[Big Waz]

No, it's not a dig. In college Sexton. I love Colin Sexton, but the circumstance.

[Rob Mahoney]

That he's not resolving everything that ails them. I will say this. Colin Sexton plays hard as hell all the time.

[Big Waz]

He does.

[Rob Mahoney]

Lamello Ball does not. And there is, I think there is a quality like that with guys like that who are brought in, who can help. But overall, Justin, I think the question of like, when do we trade Lamelo? Do we trade Lamelo? How do we feel about him? Is as much of a Lamelo question is as it is a Brandon Miller question. Like, those two guys have just not had an opportunity to play together all that much. And so it's hard for you to evaluate like what they have when over two years they played 828 minutes together. For contrast, Justin's Bulls, Josh Giddey and Kobe White played 1300 minutes together last season. Not well. I mean, they were fine. I would not say so. Kind of fun.

[Justin Verrier]

Yeah, kind of fun.

[Rob Mahoney]

Kind of fun. And I'm ready for the Hornets to be kind of fun again. And I think Lamelo, look, he does things that no one else can do that no one else will try. He will make plays late in some, like when, if the Hornets can make it to crunch time, will make plays in pressure situations that are incredible. Is he ever going to be the half court playmaker they need him to be in? Creator? I don't know. Consistently enough. Like, he's still trying to prove that. Can they be healthy enough? Can they be talented enough? What does this roster look like when it's actually competing for something? It feels like they still have a long way to go.

[Justin Verrier]

Yeah. And that's kind of what I'm saying here is that when you have someone like Brandon Miller as a potential cornerstone, a guy who would have won rookie of the year in any non wemby year, practically shot out of a cannon, obviously needs to add strength. The wrist surgery is a concern going into this season. But if he is fully healthy, like that's a guy. And at the very least, like, you pair those two guys together, there's enough talent on the wings with Knipple and Bridges. Whatever you get from him, like there's a fun team to build off of as opposed to just like trading Lamelo and just starting from scratch. I just don't have much time for a team with actual all star level talent being like, well, we got to turn over the page.

[Big Waz]

I mean. And I think honestly the argument against Is like who are you trading this guy to and for what? Like what would be the point of just dumping him? Cause we know like in terms of value it's pretty low right now. It's low right now. So what would be the point of just being like we're dumping this guy? Like you would have to think that he's just like this huge cancer to the team, which I don't think anybody is saying. I think people just don't think he's been leader guy.

[Justin Verrier]

He's a loof. He's a goofball.

[Rob Mahoney]

He is a goofball. He is kind of like off on his own planet.

[Big Waz]

Yes.

[Justin Verrier]

He's wearing the AirPods while he's playing.

[Rob Mahoney]

He is exactly that guy. There's no question about it. Oh, and like look, this kind of experiment with the new roster where they have brought in all of these smaller guards for reasons that are not, I admit, admit like immediately clear to me. There's just like a lot of bucket getting small guards who I assume they are targeting specifically. Like there's enough of a trend here with, with Colin Sexton, with bring back Trey Mann, with even drafting Seon James, with Nick Smith Jr. Still on, still on the roster. It's like Lamelo is such a playmaker first, have they decided we need someone who will hunt a shot next to him on more or less a full time basis and if that's a direction they're leaning into, there's defensive trade offs for that. There's. There's like, like flow trade offs to that. I don't know what to make of it yet, but it does seem like that's the way they're leaning.

[Justin Verrier]

I do think drafting Khan perhaps signaled that they were looking for something a little bit more stable and to perhaps to use him in a variety of ways for exactly what you're mentioning because he is someone with some actual on ball juice who could do a little bit of that, but he doesn't need to. He's. He to me was a stabilizing pick as opposed to some of the high upside picks. Like you don't go for an Ace Bailey. You go for someone who, you know who he's going to be as a supplemental player next to these guys.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, they've already done to John Salon, like they've already kind of tried that and we'll see.

[Justin Verrier]

I watched him in summer league for whatever reason. Yeah, they did play a lot of summer league games. So is that he looks like a guy who was in football linebacker drills and just got lost one Day ended up on a basketball court and no one said anything. He has no idea what he's doing. He's trying to cut off the ball. He looks like he's just like wandered off into the tunnel and just doesn't know where he is.

[Rob Mahoney]

They have a lot of those guys. And I will say, you know, I don't think Pat Connaughton is like a meaningful part of this team. He hasn't been a meaningful part of the Bucks for a minute, but he was that guy one time.

[Justin Verrier]

He's a grinder.

[Rob Mahoney]

Like I. Okay, this is what I have written down. True or false. Pat Connaughton is the Bruce Brown of Josh Green's. Does that make any sense to you at all? By that, I mean, Bruce Brown is a guy who was like, oh, this is a very interesting and theory player. And he hit the right situation and it worked. It just like immediately worked in Denver. It really clicked for him. Pat Connaughton had had his moment in Milwaukee during the championship run, where it's like, this guy's athleticism is exactly what this team needs right now. And he's hitting just enough of his threes. And Lord knows Josh Green is not doing all that stuff.

[Justin Verrier]

But somehow Connaughton is the Bruce Brown as opposed to the other way around.

[Rob Mahoney]

Because he did it. He made it work the one time and won a title doing exact like playing exactly that sort of like high variability athletic style.

[Big Waz]

Josh Green is the like, he's the Pat Connaughton.

[Rob Mahoney]

He. He wishes he was Championship run Pat Connaughton.

[Big Waz]

That's what I'm saying. But he's like, I'm trying to think. I don't want to be disrespectful, but like, not going on here. I don't know. I got to come back.

[Justin Verrier]

Well, you're right. There are a lot of guards here. I have to assume part of it is because they want to push campaign.

[Rob Mahoney]

Pat Connaughton. Wait, Josh Green is the campaign. Yes, that is true.

[Big Waz]

Pat Connage.

[Rob Mahoney]

See, we've just flipped the script, but we're talking about the same thing.

[Justin Verrier]

I'm so far down the rabbit hole, I don't even know who's. Who am I, Justin? Are you was.

[Rob Mahoney]

Who's to say?

[Justin Verrier]

I worry at times if some of the goofiness has only been leaned into more by the style of play they adopted under Charles Lee by Jack in the three point math, I started to wonder whether or not that sort of style, where we're really going to let it fly is Best suited for an established group of veterans who know how to use it, use the power of it, but not overindulge in it. Whereas the Hornets did it last year and it felt like a little bit too silly. Like Brandon Miller took 11 threes a game last year.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Justin Verrier]

Metal ball also jacking it up. That's like. It feels a bit too much too soon.

[Big Waz]

Yeah. I think ideally you would be running that system with a bunch of guys who know what a good shot is. And that just didn't seem like that was the case for Charlotte last year.

[Justin Verrier]

Yep.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean the counterpoint to that would be if you have a drought, like a dramatically different idea of what makes a good shot, then maybe it's best to get guys early in their careers before they have all that muscle memory, before they have that voice in the back of their head that's saying this pull up three in transition is not the shot I should be taking. Like I can understand the logic of wanting to take Brandon Miller and make get him used to taking a ton of threes.

[Big Waz]

Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm not 100% sure he's that kind of shooter and we're kind of waiting to see if the jumper really falls into place that way. And I say that as someone who I think Brandon Miller is an incredible prospect.

[Big Waz]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think he could be a really high level player. I think he could be a multi time all star. Very excited about where his career goes. But I do want to see a little more than just that part of his game. And I think part of the risk you run with his offense is streamlining him a little too much in that way.

[Justin Verrier]

Right. The two draft picks for at least the first rounders they got in presumably brought in in order to further that. Knipolis shooter Liam McNeely, late of UConn, a shooter although hasn't shot it well either at UConn or in pre draft workouts allegedly reportedly bagging on a Yukon alum.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's how you know it's bad.

[Justin Verrier]

I mean I, I like them. I just wish him more success than he's had thus far.

[Rob Mahoney]

I would also just like to say on the. Just in case you don't think it can get any worse, watch worse. Watch for the, for the Charlotte Hornets. I think this team is going to get fucking annihilated on the defensive glass. They have no one who can rebound like I do. Like Musta Diabate. He's all over the place. He's really good offensive rebounder. But the chain reaction of losing Nick Richards, Mark Williams even Yousef Nurkic who came in and rebounded for them like they have nobody who's going to rebound at all. And they are so weird and wingy and athletic, but with guys who don't actually hit the glass that hard, I think their defense is going to be bad.

[Big Waz]

No faith in Burner.

[Rob Mahoney]

Honestly. Honestly, I think he's pretty good.

[Justin Verrier]

Looks good in summer league.

[Rob Mahoney]

Brenner is among their most appealing options.

[Justin Verrier]

He's lean and a shooter.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes. So. So who will rebound?

[Justin Verrier]

You?

[Rob Mahoney]

I have as good a shot as anyone on this team.

[Justin Verrier]

Are you a good rebounder? Yeah. Yeah. What's your style?

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm back. I'm. I'm posting. I'm power posting down there, back to the basket, hitting some fade aways, you know, but you got to hit him with the no look passes every now and again. You got. I mean, look, I, I am but a pickup big man. Who would I be if I wasn't throwing irresponsible passes?

[Justin Verrier]

A little budget young.

[Rob Mahoney]

That sounds great.

[Justin Verrier]

Yeah. See? All right, last team on the list for this episode, number 26, the New Orleans Pelicans, who are an absolute catastrophe of an organization. I considered putting them second to last on this list and their only saving grace was the fact that they don't have their pick next year and thus they have more motivation to kick up some late season wins that mean nothing in order to push up farther on the list.

[Big Waz]

Yeah, I still think there's a lot of talent on the team, which is something we say literally every freaking preseason.

[Rob Mahoney]

We certainly do.

[Justin Verrier]

You had them high. Yeah, I did get him 22nd.

[Big Waz]

I'm just like, look like if all of their guys play well.

[Rob Mahoney]

Let me stop you there.

[Big Waz]

They're better than the 26 ranked team in the league.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yep.

[Big Waz]

And that's why I had them 22nd.

[Justin Verrier]

There's a lot of talent. Yes.

[Rob Mahoney]

Was doubling down on the Derrick Queen trade defense by putting them at 22nd.

[Justin Verrier]

Listen, he's not going to play so he won't cause any problems.

[Big Waz]

It's not about Derrick Queen. It's just like, I just think the guys on the team, Trey and Zion and the like, these guys are really good NBA players. And again, if they're on the floor, they're better than the Chicago Bulls. You know what I mean?

[Rob Mahoney]

How are you going to take that, Justin?

[Big Waz]

Are they way better? Probably not, but I think they're better than a lot of the teams that we ranked ahead of them. It's just New Orleans, like the injury history.

[Justin Verrier]

Listen, the foundation of the team as you're Mentioning is pretty solid with Zion if he plays. Trey Murphy, who also was injured often, and Herb Jones, who basically didn't play.

[Big Waz]

Last year, also injured a lot as well.

[Justin Verrier]

But that three as a core, I think a lot of teams would love to see. The problem is they have taken what was there and mapped on a completely different timeline.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Justin Verrier]

And also some veterans who I don't particularly love. So you have the former team with those three guys. You have the new draft picks in Fears and Queen and then you have some old guys. Honestly, a lot of former warriors in Kavan Looney and Jordan Poole. It all doesn't make sense to me. On top of the fact that this organization is regularly cursed and nobody actually plays. And so all those things combined, this is a fucking train wreck.

[Rob Mahoney]

Sounds great to me. Sounds like everything's going according to plan. I don't know what the plan is, but it must be clicking.

[Justin Verrier]

They're already talking in the media day lead ups like, oh, Zion has to be a leader and all this other stuff and like we're counting on him to do X, Y and Z. It's just like I've heard this before and so I've gotten to the point if you want to get to our existential question.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Justin Verrier]

I am starting to feel sympathetic for Zion that he has been led astray to in part by an organization that doesn't know what he's doing. I think he is his own mess. Injuries on top of just also goofiness and not really taking the shit seriously.

[Big Waz]

Yeah.

[Justin Verrier]

But also, where's the example for him?

[Big Waz]

Yeah, I think the train wreck of the surrounding management structure around Zion's career combined with being with a shit franchise has gotten us to this point. I think Zion could have been a train wreck in his personal and the way that he's managing his career. But, you know, if he somehow ends up in Miami, I think it's a different story and outcome for his career. But you combine just organizational turmoil and just ranking competence with what he had going on personally, it's.

[Justin Verrier]

It's perfect Storm.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah. He has mismanaged his career.

[Big Waz]

Yes.

[Rob Mahoney]

They have mismanaged his career.

[Big Waz]

Yes.

[Rob Mahoney]

There's no coming out of that looking clean and everything clicking in place. Like it just hasn't worked. Hasn't worked in any respect to this point. How that changes, I don't know. Like, I don't. Again, we're talking. We're talking about with Lamello, like, what is the. What is the come to Jesus moment that's going to change something here?

[Big Waz]

Put the beignets down.

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't know what it is. And I. And here's the thing. Even if he was the best version of himself, I'm not entirely sure how far that gets the Pelicans in a loaded Western Conference. Like, maybe it gets them into the Memphis, Dallas, like fighting for the play in kind of group. The best case version of the Pelicans.

[Big Waz]

That would be.

[Rob Mahoney]

That would be incredible. Yeah, I don't have that kind of aspiration for them.

[Justin Verrier]

Right. How does he play with fears without sacrificing defense? How does he play with Kavan Looney without sacrificing shooting? It's just like, I don't know how the parts all fit together. And frankly, I don't know if the people making the decisions have put enough thought into that. Perhaps they're thinking farther down the road than the immediate. But when you have a talent like Zion, like, you probably should be thinking about the here and now.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, I think so, too. And. But here's the problem with the here and now. You talked about the three core guys that are very talented. Are all three of those guys going to start? Like, are Herb Jones and Trey Murphy's locked in? Trey Murphy's too good, too unimpeachable, too useful to bring off the bench. Are we positive Herb Jones is going to start? And I think he should. But you just traded for Jordan Pool and you just drafted Jeremiah Fierce. Are both of those. Is one of those guys going to come off the bench or do you intend to play them together?

[Justin Verrier]

I don't think you could bench those guys. I mean, they were trying to shove Herb Jones as a nominal center into their starting lineup last year in big old air quotes here.

[Rob Mahoney]

He might still be their best center.

[Justin Verrier]

He could be. So I think the question is, do you start Zion at center, make some.

[Big Waz]

Room for some of more of the no wings? No, that's just you.

[Rob Mahoney]

You just drafted Derek Queen, who I assume will play some five.

[Justin Verrier]

He's hurt to start to start the.

[Rob Mahoney]

Season, so he's gonna come in a.

[Big Waz]

Little later in the trash if you're starting Zion at center.

[Justin Verrier]

That's the other thing. I don't think Queen and Zion can play together. Both big creators who can't really shoot well.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, I think. I think they're gonna. It'll be a little bit more of like Derek Queen playing the five with Trey Murphy at the four. That kind of thing could potentially work. Eve Mece is still in the mix here and I think worthy of rotation and like an investment like should play should probably Start to start the season, I would think I. Again, I just don't know how these guys, like, actually make each other better, how their skill sets complement each other. Why would you introduce Jordan Pool to what was already like a fundamentally broken mix? And we haven't even talked about Dejounte Murray, who's just going to be out for the foreseeable future, may or may not play next season. I have no idea. Just there's so much that feels like a headache with this team.

[Justin Verrier]

To your question, though, I always lean veterans over everything. Anything that makes sense, whatever is the best actual lineup. So I wouldn't be surprised if Kavan Looney and Jordan Poole start.

[Rob Mahoney]

Wow.

[Big Waz]

Yeah.

[Justin Verrier]

Next to those three guys.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, I love Looney, but no, that should. That should not. I'm not saying it won't, but I'm saying it should not happen.

[Big Waz]

Jordan Poole running the Point.

[Justin Verrier]

Zion is going to handle the ball as long as they're leaning into Point Zion again, which they changed their minds. But about every year. One minute he's the center, one minute he's a point guard. Yeah, he's coming off the ball. It's just like it's all over the place. But I have to assume it would be Zion running the show and having shooting around him.

[Rob Mahoney]

We should also say, like, one of the thing that is preventing them from going counter to your veteran model that you're talking about is they do not have control of their own pick next year. So they. They do not even have that. I don't think even think we need to say it at this point. Yeah, but they. They made all this noise to get Derek Queen even if he were healthy and playing great basketball, and they wanted to start him and lean into the Derek Queen, Jeremiah Fears version of this team as much as humanly possible next season. They're kind of discouraged from doing so because it probably will not result in a ton of wins. And this is a team that basically has no choice but to try to win some games. So maybe, maybe they will have more wins than some of the other teams at the bottom of these rankings for exactly that reason. But I don't think those wins really will amount to much, and I certainly don't think it's going to actually get them in the playoff race.

[Justin Verrier]

It's embarrassing.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's not good.

[Big Waz]

They're not a playoff team.

[Rob Mahoney]

This is.

[Justin Verrier]

It's so bad. And I have to say I still believe that if New Orleans ever built the product, I think the fans would come. But we're kind of getting to the point now where, like, they've been waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Justin Verrier]

I just don't know when it's ever going to come. And I think it brings up bigger existential questions beyond our even existential question about the roster, about the viability of basketball in this town, or at the very least under this ownership group. I think there should be.

[Big Waz]

It's the ownership group.

[Justin Verrier]

As Adam Silver does a lot of things this off season in his board of governors meetings, perhaps he could give a little nudge out the door for our girlfriend.

[Big Waz]

Yeah, just sell. Sell the team to somebody who actually wants to do this and do it right.

[Justin Verrier]

Yep.

[Rob Mahoney]

Can I say one thing I am excited about with the New Orleans Pelicans? Sadiq Bay missed all last season with an ACL injury. Let's get him back out there.

[Big Waz]

Sadiq Bay.

[Rob Mahoney]

I like Sadiq Bay. Do you not like Sadiq Bay?

[Big Waz]

Everybody likes Sadiq Bay. He's never rewarded us with it, though.

[Rob Mahoney]

Not. Not all the people you believe in come up for you when you really got you.

[Big Waz]

We've been loving Sadiq Bay for five.

[Rob Mahoney]

Years now, and I still do. And I would like to see him back on a basketball court being a part of this rotation relationship. Maybe so, but I'm in it.

[Justin Verrier]

I agree. I like him as a flyer.

[Big Waz]

Don't get you flowers on Valentine's Day. He forgets every single anniversary.

[Rob Mahoney]

He does.

[Big Waz]

He stinks. Does he call your mom on Mother's Day? It's tough. I was like, God damn, he's 26 years old now. That's crazy.

[Justin Verrier]

We love you, Sadiq Bay. We wish the best for you.

[Rob Mahoney]

We do.

[Justin Verrier]

All right, that's it for part one of our six part preseason power rankings. We'll be back next time with part two. What is that? Teams 26 to 21.

[Rob Mahoney]

25.

[Justin Verrier]

25 to 21. That's how math works. Thank you to Victoria Valencia. Thank you to John Richter. Thank you to Isaiah Blakely and Ben Cruz. A lot of thanks there. We'll catch you next time.

[Rob Mahoney]

Sam.