The Ringer NBA Show: Preseason Power Rankings, Part 2 | Group Chat

October 2, 2025

Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, Wosny Lambre

Episode Overview

In this episode, the Group Chat crew continues their annual preseason NBA power rankings, counting down teams 25 through 21. The conversation dives deep into the existential crises facing the bottom tier of the league, examining the direction (or lack thereof) for the Chicago Bulls, Phoenix Suns, Sacramento Kings, Toronto Raptors, and Portland Trail Blazers. The hosts blend analysis, humor, and frequent existential despair as they debate roster moves, future outlooks, and forlorn fanbases.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Team-by-Team Breakdown

25. Chicago Bulls

• Existential Crisis: The Bulls are stuck in NBA purgatory, neither committing to a rebuild nor maximizing their fading core.
  • “I think they are the worst team that we're talking about…to just look around and be like, yeah, we're good. We're just going to more or less roll it back.” – Rob (05:34)
• Roster Moves: Lack of significant moves praised as "not re-bulling" their future, but ownership apathy and stagnant leadership (front office and coach Billy Donovan) are seen as major issues.
• Best Player Debate: Is it newly extended Josh Giddey or Kobe White? The group leans Kobe for current impact, but Giddey’s developmental ceiling is noted. Giddey’s extension (4 years, $100M) is seen as “fine but unspectacular.”
  • “If Josh Giddey is making his jump shots at $25M a year, that's a great contract.” – Justin (11:34)
  • “Kobe White is definitively a better player than Jordan Poole and definitively more versatile.” – Rob (14:45)
• Offseason vision: The only optimism stems from financial flexibility in coming years—perhaps to be wasted again.
• Young Talent: Modest Bouzelis and Noah Senge are intriguing, but “this roster still feels like four years away," says Justin (16:19).
• Lingering Problems: Chronic underachievement with holdover leadership and questionable ability to leverage turnover into improvement.
• Memorable Quote:
  • “Continuity is only good if the thing you’re continuing was good.” – Rob (09:09)

24. Phoenix Suns

• Star Power vs. Dysfunction: Devin Booker is the best player discussed so far in these rankings, but his contract and declining efficiency cloud optimism.
  • “Booker’s, I would think, easily the best player we've talked about so far. Right?” – Rob (26:14)
• Roster Overhaul: Kevin Durant and Bradley Beal are gone; the Suns are left with Booker, Jalen Green (questionable fit), and a strange surplus of centers (Nick Richards, Mark Williams, Mali Watch).
  • “The idea that the solution to your problem is the center rotation of the Charlotte Hornets…I don’t know.” – Rob (29:32)
• Front Office Woes: Crippling dead money and future picks traded; lingering effects from stretching Beal’s contract.
  • “They have basically a Josh Giddey worth of salary just lingering in a stockpile…” – Justin (33:30)
• Existential Question: When will Booker play with another star in Phoenix? The consensus: Don’t count on it.
  • “I don’t think there will be another star in Phoenix to play with Devin Booker.” – Rob (34:50)
  • Even “dump” scenarios (Lamelo, Trae Young types) seem unlikely or underwhelming.
• Jalen Green: Once-promising, now a “last-chance” project—hosts officially out on him as a future star.
  • “Last year is when I officially just…I'm out. I'm off the boat on Jalen Green.” – Wos (38:22)
• Memorable Moments: Frustration over contracts, especially Beal’s “specter,” and Phoenix’s “niche” as a destination irrelevant given the deadcap.
  • “Bradley Beal stretch and wave contract at $19.4 million is…making the second most money in that (2028-29) season.” – Justin (33:04)
  • “The Suns don’t have control of their pick for another two years after that until the 2032 season.” – Justin (31:46)

23. Sacramento Kings

• No Identity, No Hope: Most “dispiriting” watch in the NBA; loaded with semi-washed veterans, no direction.
  • “I have them down as the worst league pass team of the year.” – Justin (42:41)
• Baffling Roster Construction: Trio of Zach LaVine, DeMar DeRozan, and Domantas Sabonis described as an “auto-drafted team.”
  • “There's no form to the team. There's no shape to it. It's just…like they almost just threw these players against the wall and just like, maybe this will stick.” – Wos (43:47)
• Other Problems: Rumors of more bad fits (Westbrook); possible overpay for Keegan Murray, whose development has plateaued.
• League Pass Sadness: Ranked alongside the Jazz, Pelicans, Suns, and Heat as least entertaining.
  • “That offense is going to be a fucking sludge factory.” – Justin (47:07)
• Keegan Murray Disappointment: Once seen as a versatile super-role player, now “just kind of invisible.”
  • “Sometimes he's just kind of out there in like a very nondescript wing way. That's worrying.” – Rob (49:39)

22. Toronto Raptors

• Quantity Without Quality: On paper, big names and talent—but the pieces just don’t fit, especially on offense.
  • “If it wasn’t Masai Ujiri we would look at them exactly as we look at the Bulls. Like what are you doing?” – Wos (53:48)
• Barnes-Ingram-RJ Barrett Issue: Too many similar, ball-dependent players clog the offense; RJ Barrett reportedly on the trade block already.
  • “He can't play with Scotty Barnes and Brandon Ingram on the court at the same time. Like there's just no—he doesn't like—no defenses respect his shooting.” – Wos (56:45)
• Hopeful Signs: Defense was real post-Jan 1 last year, but most of those contributors now gone.
  • “If the Raptors came out and were a top-four defense, then I'd be like, okay, well there's a theory to this team then...” – Wos (62:36)
• Brandon Ingram as Key to Any Upside: Respected by defenses, could catalyze flow in Darko Rajaković’s motion system—but only if spacing, role clarity, and playmaking all align.
  • “Other NBA players treat Brandon Ingram as like he's a star...and so if you are drafting off of ... a Brandon Ingram drive, that's drawing two ... you can play out of [that].” – Rob (58:36)
• Front Office Transition: Bobby Webster takes over for Masai Ujiri, but blueprint and issues remain.

21. Portland Trail Blazers

• Caught in Between Eras: The emotional return of Damian Lillard (out for the season) after a retool built around youth and defense. Drawn-out ownership change (to Tom Dundon).
  • “Bringing back Dame is probably the prime example of that. At first…everyone is very excited. Franchise legend…But it is really kind of like…asking an ex to join your new relationship in this new polyamorous thing.” – Justin (69:31)
• Roster Moves & Outlook:
  • Josh Cronin & Chauncey Billups both extended.
  • Swapped Anfernee Simons for Jrue Holiday (one-for-one salary dump).
  • Drafted “international man of mystery” Dong Hanson and brought in Donovan Clingan.
• Optimistic about Defense: Last season's improvements were real; team culture and infrastructure seem strong.
• Existential Question: Is Scoot Henderson “the guy”? After a rough rookie year, he showed signs of a leap—work ethic praised.
  • “That dude gets it. I think he is a worker and he had an end of season press conference at the end of last season and he was just going over all the technical things…he's just such a grinder.” – Justin (74:06)
  • “If they come out of this season and neither Scoot nor Shadyn Sharpe are seen as foundational pieces, what did we just do for three years in Portland?” – Wos (73:30)
• Shaden Sharpe: Tremendous talent, but too “sleepy”/inconsistent to trust.
  • “He might be the most talented player on the roster, but will he ever get it is very much an open question.” – Justin (74:06)
• Clingan & Rim Protection: Major improvement with his defense and conditioning; could start over Aiton or Rob Williams.
  • “7.5 block percentage would have been second in the NBA behind only Wemby last season…” – Justin (79:06)
• Memorable Moments:
  • Kirkland Jokic: Dong Hanson sightings at Costco lead to playful nickname.
    • “Kyle Mann has now dubbed him the Kirkland Jokic.” – Justin (81:40)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Continuity is only good if the thing that you’re continuing was good.” – Rob (09:09)
• “I have them down as the worst league pass team of the year.” – Justin (42:41) – about the Kings
• “Booker's, I would think easily the best player we've talked about so far. Right?” – Rob (26:14)
• “If they come out of this season and neither Scoot nor Shadyn Sharpe are seen as foundational pieces, what did we just do for three years in Portland?” – Wos (73:30)
• “Bradley Beal stretch and wave contract at $19.4 million is…making the second most money in that (2028-29) season.” – Justin (33:04)
• “Kyle Mann has now dubbed him the Kirkland Jokic.” – Justin (81:40)

Key Timestamps

• [05:34] Bulls’ offseason, lack of direction, core stagnation
• [11:34] Bulls’ best player debate—Giddey/White, contract context
• [16:16] Bulls’ “vision” and young wings
• [25:05] Transition to Suns — collapse of KD/Beal era, Booker’s (over)rating
• [29:32] Suns' weird center obsession and stretch contracts
• [34:04] Existential Q: Will Booker play with another star in Phoenix?
• [42:41] Kings declared least-watchable team—roster malaise
• [49:39] Keegan Murray disappointment as a prospect
• [53:55] Raptors and Masai’s reputation masking directionlessness
• [62:36] Raptors’ only hope: elite defense carrying flawed roster
• [69:31] Portland's conflicted identity with Dame back in the fold
• [74:06] Scoot Henderson’s growth, leadership hopes
• [79:06] Donovan Clingan’s shot blocking, potential impact
• [81:40] “Kirkland Jokic” nickname, fun Blazers story

Final Thoughts

The episode is a rich, occasionally comedic but deeply honest assessment of the NBA's murky middle and bottom dwellers. The hosts blend hard-nosed analysis with existential humor, making clear that for several franchises, the path forward is neither obvious nor optimistic. The episode highlights the value of vision, patience, and creative team-building, while warning of the dangers of stagnation, owner apathy, and ill-fitting collections of talent. For hoop heads invested in the NBA’s perennial “treadmill” teams, it's essential, brutally honest listening.