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The Ringer NBA Show
Ranking the Best LeBron Fits, and Matchmaking for the Remaining Free Agents. Plus, the Celtics Explain (?) the Brown Trade. | Group Chat
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- [00:01]
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- [01:50]
Justin Varior
Hello and welcome Group chat. I am Justin Varior. Joining me, Rob Mahoney, J. Kyle Mann we're recording this in between the two soccer games. So if I start saying that you guys have a brilliant point or like it's a brilliant ball by you, which is what they'd say to every single play. That's why I mean most of the
- [02:08]
Rob Mahoney
time it is a brilliant ball by us. We're moving it around, we're keeping it in the air. I don't know what we're doing. Are we doing well? Please, please praise us.
- [02:20]
J. Kyle Mann
You bent that linear thought really well. Rob, Nice to meet you.
- [02:23]
Rob Mahoney
Thank you.
- [02:24]
Justin Varior
Well, I will say one thing is that I think we have a lot of good announcers in basketball. Obviously Mike Breen, the goat. Glad to see him in the finals with the Knicks. All that coming off probably a halcyon times in terms of announcers in the NBA. But the soccer announcers, they just got it. First of all, they got the accent work, which is great.
- [02:43]
Rob Mahoney
Sure.
- [02:43]
Justin Varior
And they're also like in on the the theater of it all in a way that, like, even supersedes, like, what we do in the NBA. There was a goal from a guy named Bellingham yesterday on England, and he was like, oh, Bellingham. He rings up the scoreboard. That one. I was like, okay.
- [03:00]
Rob Mahoney
I mean, look.
- [03:01]
Justin Varior
Yeah, you're pretending.
- [03:02]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, you're pretending. Iron Eagle is incapable of that.
- [03:05]
J. Kyle Mann
The Birdman, come on. He's throwing stuff down. Like, that's true for sure, and better.
- [03:10]
Rob Mahoney
Do they call him the Birdman? We do now.
- [03:14]
J. Kyle Mann
I will say how I know that Birdman. He acknowledges himself as Birdman in some capacity, which I enjoy. The Birdman.
- [03:21]
Justin Varior
That's great. You're right. He would do it. But maybe a little bit more. Maybe we need just a little bit more cockney accents going around here. But we also waited because we also wanted to check out this Jaylen Brown press conference that the Celtics gave Brad Stevens. Chisholm, the owner got up front in front of the Boston media, talked about it. Just quickly, I would say my takeaway from this. And I think the thing that's going to circulate as a result is Brad Stevens basically outright saying that having 70% of your cap plus all a lot of your usage into two players is just pretty untenable in this day and age. Couldn't really get into, obviously, like, whatever. Whatever discourse existed between Brown and the organization. He kind of sidestepped a lot of those questions or just like, focused on the emotional toll of just trading a player 10 years into his run with Boston. And obviously there was some statistical stuff that suggested probably that something like this wouldn't really hurt them all that much. Like, there's insinuations all over the place. But I think the thing he said outright, Rob, which I think is going to be the thing that people take away from this, is just like, it doesn't seem like they're losing a ton in the short term, but it gave them optionality in the long term because of the way the CBA forces teams into the situation.
- [04:38]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, I mean, I do think they're going to get optionality. And I know that because the word was mentioned 85 to 90 times over
- [04:45]
Justin Varior
the course of this conference. Just say options.
- [04:46]
Rob Mahoney
Conference.
- [04:47]
Justin Varior
We have options. You don't need a new word.
- [04:49]
Rob Mahoney
Look, I know we're. We're as guilty of this as anybody. This is a word that gets thrown around on I don't even know how many podcasts. But now we know why. And it's Brad Stevens infecting us linguistically. And here we are talking about the optionality of trading one contract for a similarly sized contract with a worst player attached to it. So, yeah, I both. Here's the thing. I don't think I never really heard an argument that, oh, having this much invested in the cap is a good idea or that you can even build a sustainable long term team. There's a widespread understanding that in this apron environment, it's really difficult to keep a contender together once the salary starts to bloat. The conversation around the Celtics all throughout this process has been why now? Why for this return and I have to say, trading for Paul George's contract when that's just an intermediate step, it sounds like into getting where the Celtics hopefully want to go, that's not doing anything to alleviate these broader concerns about the timing of this deal.
- [05:48]
J. Kyle Mann
Yeah, I don't, I don't think that the thought process of like, why trade him is all that difficult to understand. You know, especially I think in the, the messaging that's come out and I have to assume that it's gotten out through something close to the team or whatever it might be to sort of sharpen the, the language that was around the, the, like he's the seventh best player. The, the problem with Jalen was that the distance between the value that he provides as a basketball player and the number that he was going to command in this increasingly, you know, constricted environment that it's so, so hard. It was just going to be really, really difficult. And the apex version of, of the Jays winning the title, those two guys being the focal point of it was the product of kind of a unique financial event a couple of years ago when they managed to get Drew Holiday, they managed to get poor Zingas and it's just like we're not, we're not going to end up in those circumstances again. I don't. And, and then you combine it with the fact that Jaylen is like we were saying, you know, when we taped another part of this pot at another point in time, we were discussing this at another point that he's, he's on the process of wanting more and he got a taste of that. So you're moving towards that. It's like he's not going to scale back into an optimal version of that. And you know, even if he did, the money is going to not match up with that. So. But the thing that, that's really, really difficult to square is just the, the, the win. You know, it's. But should they have done it a year, a year ago and tank this season so that they'd have A better talent. I think that would have been hard to understand too. It's just the, the return is just so, so weird. I think that's the part. And you want to talk about some bloodshot eyes. It definitely looks. I don't know if he. Before he went on, he wanted to look more sympathetic, but Brad had some. Brad had some pretty worn out eyes.
- [07:33]
Justin Varior
You say we got some fake tears in there. Got. Put little droplets going in there to get a little moisture. He was.
- [07:39]
J. Kyle Mann
He just looked like he'd been in front of a computer screen in a dark room for like 72 hours to me. But I don't know if he's doing some editing, you know, just the Clockwork Orange with.
- [07:49]
Justin Varior
With Jalen Brown's Twitch stream, just to make sure he knew specifically how to reply. I mean, it was funny as the press conference kind of went on there and you got some of the more older guard reporters asking more pointed questions, which I always appreciate because they have no frills and they'll just basically be like, wait, didn't you already build depth? Because you're saying all this was to build depth in order to compete for longer term. And I guess you can make the case, as he kind of did, that going forward, you will need to replace the depth that you've already built by having these draft picks and basically having previously traded a lot of your picks in order to get the Drews and the Kristaps in the door, you need to. When Jordan Walsh needs to get paid, you need to replace him. It's kind of a really crass sort of thing underneath it all because it's basically like, oh, when your players are good enough to earn a living wage, you then have to trade them. That's a whole separate issue there. I just, I think the bigger question is ultimately the why now? Like, why did you do this now? Why didn't you wait out for even better deals to happen over the course of the next two months? I don't know if we'll ever get a direct answer to that, Rob. I kind of like the way I read what he was ultimately saying was I don't know if he thinks they're getting appreciably worse in the immediate or at the very least perhaps he thought that this version of the team, the Jalen and Jason centric team without the guts of the. The 2024 title team without Drew, without Kristaps, without Horford, or a lot of the supplementary pieces that kind of bonded it all together. I do wonder, and what I read from this Was like, maybe he thought that they would never get back there. And so this is probably around where they would top out with the Paul George type. It wasn't about Paul George. It's about like, this is kind of what we expected anyway way.
- [09:30]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah. I mean, if you're in Brad Stevens position, you never go on the record and say, we're going to be demonstrably worse after you make a big controversial trade. So it was a lot of like, let's see how it goes. Like, let's, let's see where, where the cards fall, which. Fair enough. Like, I think most of us expect the Celtics to still be pretty good even with Paul George as a member of the roster. I think the larger concerns about the makeup of this team and the depth and all these things that were circling, like they do have good 9th and 10th men here on the bench. I think the refreshing that we're talking about is more like, where are they going to find the next version of the fourth and fifth guys that they need to replace the Porzingis and the Druze? And you know, if Derek White continues to trickle downward, what happens there? Like, it's. This is where if you'll take a drink or pardon it, the optionality comes into play. It's the thing that GMs dread most of all, in my experience, is not making this sort of hard decision. It's feeling like their hands are tied, feeling like they are so cap stricken that there's nothing they can realistically do to improve their roster. And then they're just kind of stuck because these, like, all of these people who run teams are just like fiddlers by nature, right? Like, they just want to tinker around the edges. They want to make their machine run a little bit more smoothly. They want to put in the one piece that puts it over the top. And if you feel like financially having these two massive contracts is restrictive to that, I can understand the frustrations that come with it. I do just find it a little odd though, when it's not like the Knicks two biggest salaries are dramatically smaller than Tatum and Brown. They're not Jalen Brunson, granted, it's Carl Anthony Townsend, OG Anunoby. But there are a lot of teams that are really successful, the Celtics included, with giant salaries at the center of them, and have still managed to cobble together at least enough depth to go on really long playoff runs.
- [11:17]
J. Kyle Mann
I think the depth point that you made at the beginning is really on the money because. And you would have to get to this, you would have to arrive at this place with a sober look at your roster. And I think that the Sixers gave that. Whether they had it or not going into the playoffs, the Sixers gave it to them that they've, they have really done a really good job of taking dudes who are probably like 12th to 15th type men and bringing them up maybe to like 11 through 8. Like, they, they've done a good job, like, growing assets to that point. But it's like there is a developmental question, I guess, that somebody smarter than me could go and delve into, which is just like, can you get beyond that? How often can you get a player to like, overshoot what is kind of a natural range of what they can accomplish with their, with their skills? And I think that they are looking at the guys they have and they're saying, like, I don't. We don't really know where the solid playoff rotation guys are. Like, these are good. These are good regular season players and they have overachieved and, you know, they fit in our system. But we saw that once they got strained that they're maybe not quite the types of players that can reach like a championship level. So naturally they're going to be more expendable. So a Jordan Walsh is going to sadly just kind of be like, all right, we're going to have to rotate in the next guy and hopefully find somebody that's, you know, find the pieces that are going to help them win the way they want to, because they clearly don't think that they have it, I guess, right now.
- [12:33]
Rob Mahoney
Well, I mean, it's also one way in which this is so directly a challenge trade, not just because you're swipe, like trading out one forward or one wing for another, but this whole idea of like, what kind of depth do you have? Jaylen Brown's contract and Joel Embiid's contract, pretty comparable to what you were getting from Tatum and Brown in the first place. It just looks a whole lot different when you already have Tyrese Maxey on the roster and when you already have even just some of the supporting pieces that the Sixers do where you can talk yourself into being bold and swinging for talent when you already have a little bit more of an infrastructure to accommodate it.
- [13:07]
Justin Varior
Yeah. With these press conferences, you're ultimately looking for the trail of breadcrumbs that get dropped in between all of the big long winded monologues. I. I wrote down Diversify the Attack. That really caught my eye there, where perhaps wanted something a little bit less on the ball. As I mentioned, up top like that having so much usage into two players, clearly, Brad, I think is more of a type of let's share the rock. Let's, let's democratize the offense. And so again, that's probably another front office coach sort of thing being like, let's play a little bit more spread out. Paul George probably is going to facilitate that a little bit more than Brown. The other thing, another move isn't coming after this. I think he said that pretty directly where it's like, we don't have anything lined up for the now. He had to sidestep a lot of implications about like free agency because those aren't official, so you can't really talk about them. But beyond that, I think he said, like, this is it. And so the optionality, the big buzzword of the day, like really is why they made this move. It isn't like a Trey Murphy coming down the road. We'll see like trade deadline or maybe into the season. But for now, like, this is the Celtics, which if you're a Celtics fan, you probably have to be feeling pretty sober about right now. But I guess, I guess two years from now you might be able to flip Paul George's contract. You might be able to draft some guy with the 17th overall pick.
- [14:27]
J. Kyle Mann
Yeah.
- [14:27]
Rob Mahoney
Or even one, frankly, because it's not like teams were lining up to take Paul George back right now at the money that he's paid with all the restrictions that we're talking about in terms of what it does to your team. But one year closer to it when he's more of an expiring or like even this upcoming deadline going into his expiring year with the player option, maybe then it's at least more of like you, you can get some teams on the phone and, and you can do it without having to attach some of these picks that you just got in the Jalen Brown trade to begin with. That's. That to me is kind of the mystery with all of this. Like, Jaylen Brown is an all NBA level player who is paid like an all NBA level player, maybe a little more than he's worth on the court. We can go back and forth on that. That. That's kind of a separate conversation. Paul George is a good player who is quite massively overpaid, who the Sixers would have under other circumstances had to give up first to get off of in the first place. And the Celtics took him back for the sake of flexibility, but really, what looks like out of the kindness of their heart, like, I, I don't see the mathematical play of we're taking Pac Paul George to make ourselves more flexible financially other than we're going to sit on his contract for probably at least a year.
- [15:36]
J. Kyle Mann
Well, he comes off in 20. I mean the conversation around what a 39 year old pushing 40 years old Paul George in 28, 29, it's going to be pretty clear cut that like we ain't getting back in the business with this. Jalen is. Jalen would have, this, this would have come to a head at some point. I know people are just frustrated, obviously justifiably frustrated about it coming to a head now. But I don't. If you wanted to just find any sort of like light gray lining, we won't call it silver. It's not shimmering, it's not going to make you feel great. But it's like Paul Geor George. I honestly feel like I just need to take just a moment here and remind people that the apex of Paul George has been better than Jalen Brown in my opinion. I think the primes of these two players are not really even close in my opinion. And I, I think that Paul George is more role malleable. I think he's an incredible. He's still an elite catch and shoot player who is taller and in a stationary isolation defensive kind of situation is just as good a defender as j gave it to him at different times. So I want to be really like this dude isn't a bum, he's overpaid. But I just think if you're talking about in terms of the flexibility, you're going to get off the money uncontroversially here. I guess that's a positive if you want one. And then he's going to be able to scale down in a way that basketball wise, I don't know that it'll reach the highs of what if we turn around the Celtics are better next year?
- [16:56]
Rob Mahoney
That's what if they are, then we'll talk about it. Do you think that's going to be the case?
- [17:01]
J. Kyle Mann
Is it a zero percent chance?
- [17:03]
Rob Mahoney
No, there's a chance. There's a chance.
- [17:05]
Justin Varior
I think that there it'll be easier. Some of the offensive complications of the Jason and Jalen pairing, things will just flow a little bit more and from that flow maybe they'll have a good regular season, but I do think their playoff ceiling is probably capped. And basically what you're describing is Paul George is just a high level role player which is kind of what we're saying about Jalen, like won't live up to the supermax. Well, Paul George definitely will not live up to. To his contract. Maybe there's, like, some way that they rehab his value next season, show that he could be a productive player, and then flip them again the following off season when he only has the one year. That's kind of the theory that we put to the Wizards when they traded for Trey Young. And they're going to do that. Well, wait, no, actually, they're going to sign him to the worst contract in the league and just keep him for the long run. Never mind.
- [17:50]
Rob Mahoney
Yikes.
- [17:52]
J. Kyle Mann
Well, here's.
- [17:52]
Rob Mahoney
Here's the thing. In. In light of Trey Young, we're talking about Jalen Brown and Paul George and whether they're worth their current contracts. I fear we may have buried the lead on all of this, which is the Jalen Brown conversation is not that he's paid $58 million this year. It's not even that he has two years left on his deal. I think a lot of it is the Celtics don't necessarily want to be on the hook for his next extension. Right. It's the money that's due after. And so if you're not having this conversation now, you're having it closer and closer to the expiration of his deal. It just still is a bitter pill to swallow for me in terms of the timing of all of this. I understand the forecasting, I understand the concerns. I understand when to get ahead of it. I still feel that if they had waited or if they had played this market differently, that they could have been involved in some other conversations, Giannis or otherwise. This just. It feels incomprehensible to me, given all the reporting that's out there, even with all the pessimism out there, that this was the best that they could do for Jaylen Brown.
- [18:47]
Justin Varior
Yeah.
- [18:48]
J. Kyle Mann
Do you really think they were going to be able to sell some team as that extension approached? Do you think. How many teams do you think would have looked at that extension and be like, yeah, man, dying to sign up for that? Like, I just seems. Seems like a tall order.
- [19:02]
Rob Mahoney
It is a tall order, but I don't know. Like, teams get desperate. Teams want stars like you wait for the right team and squeeze them at the right time instead of, oh, we have to get off this guy now, because we're so worried about. I would presume, although Brad Stevens wouldn't confirm it, the damage that's been done to that relationship that everyone is kind of dancing around with Jalen Brown, you play the market differently, and all of a sudden you get to make the trade when you have leverage and not when the other teams do.
- [19:27]
Justin Varior
It's all about time in the market, not timing the market. You know?
- [19:31]
Rob Mahoney
Sure.
- [19:32]
Justin Varior
They say.
- [19:32]
J. Kyle Mann
Is it?
- [19:33]
Justin Varior
They do say that. Okay, People say that. All right, let's flip to the next part of the pod. As Kyle mentioned, we. We recorded this earlier in the day. We're going to talk through the best fits for one LeBron James. We gave our one through fives, and then we talked about some matchmaking fits. Tried to play a little matchmaker, trying to put the remaining free agents to a new destination. So hear that Right after we take this episode is brought to you by Duluth Trading Company. Whether it's the 19th inning, the 12th quarter, or the 5th and a half shift, overtime isn't going anywhere.
- [20:07]
J. Kyle Mann
Which is why Duluth builds hard working gear for folks who work their butts off.
- [20:11]
Justin Varior
Their work shirts are built for function and comfort, giving a big foam middle
- [20:15]
J. Kyle Mann
finger to all that's futile.
- [20:16]
Justin Varior
And the new ultra tough no quit utility shirt is equipped with cooling and wicking tech to keep you comfortable. Give no quits shop at a Duluth store near you or@duluthtrading.com. take a break. All right, it's LeBron time. And Kyle, you actually brought your own whiteboard here doing a little Rich Paul action.
- [20:37]
J. Kyle Mann
Yeah, there's a board back there. I was just going to kind of let the public. We need. We need to, like, cultivate like a Reddit conspiracy, conspiracy theory kind of culture right to the pod. I think that would sort of up our numbers, get people talking.
- [20:52]
Rob Mahoney
I don't think we want to stoke anything in any Reddits at this point. Like, let's. You can doodle on your board as you please. It's your home, it's your life. But I simply can't encourage all that. Right.
- [21:02]
Justin Varior
If anyone wants to watch the video and, like, really pinch, zoom in, you could see Kyle trying to find where Rob and I are going this summer. I guess career wise, just gauging your
- [21:13]
J. Kyle Mann
all's interests and things like that, you know, don't worry about how I doodle on my board, Rob. That's my business. I agree.
- [21:20]
Justin Varior
Okay, well, we couldn't get the rights to the real Rich Paul whiteboard. I asked for the clearance, but apparently I don't have it. Rob, I was surprised that you don't have. Have the access to that.
- [21:31]
Rob Mahoney
Why would it be me, your management?
- [21:33]
Justin Varior
Well, you're. You're a big wig now, Juan. And also you're a Dallas resident, so if anyone knows the advantages of being Close to oil.
- [21:42]
Rob Mahoney
I do know all about the oil. If you want to know where the oil is literally buried, I'm your guy. I can hook it up.
- [21:48]
J. Kyle Mann
Is there, like, a Spotify warehouse? Sort of like from Indiana Jones, where the government keeps all, like, the props from the different shows, you know, and the whiteboard is going to be in there, and years from now, somebody will run it down. I like the idea of that various
- [22:01]
Rob Mahoney
Celtics ephemera from, like, rewatchable sets past, you know, it must be sitting somewhere.
- [22:07]
Justin Varior
I can assure you that there, in fact, is one. And I know this because a year or two ago, I went and dug out all of the stuff I left in my old office from Sunset and Gower in what would have been, like, early 2020 because we had to vacate the office. We thought we would come back. We never did. And so six years later, I have the New Orleans baby cakes mug that I so desperately was pining for. So there is this whole, wow, like, sort of storage situation. They will watch you as you go into the storage situation, just to make sure you don't take anything you're not supposed to. But, yeah, it exists.
- [22:43]
Rob Mahoney
The lengths that I saw you go to save that baby kicks mug, I. I've never seen you work so hard for anything in your entire life.
- [22:51]
J. Kyle Mann
Years from now, when all of this stuff is admitted, you know, before a grand jury, I'm sure that's why they were watching you so closely. Whenever we're held accountable for everything that goes on here.
- [23:01]
Justin Varior
Yeah, well, all right, so we're gonna go through the best LeBron fits on the board here. He's really the last guy out there who could probably make a meaningful difference, like a top, you know, 30 players sort of difference on a team. We've all ranked one through five what we think are the best LeBron spots. I did it without really, like, being beholden to the whiteboard. Like, I factored in every single team. I'm basically looking for what is the best mix of, like, team fit, but also something that's realistic. Like, I don't think he's going to take the minimum to join the Pacers or some of the smaller market teams that don't really necessarily need him.
- [23:38]
Rob Mahoney
Why are you trying to hurt me?
- [23:42]
Justin Varior
I'm just being a journalist, you know, I'm being beholden to the truth, ultimately.
- [23:46]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, No, I think it's a good qualifier up front. Like, just realistic enough that it's either, like, whiteboard adjacent, or you at least have to kick around the idea. Like, the Pacers for as much as I would love to see it are just not going to happen for a variety of reasons. So let's. Let's get into the ones that at least might.
- [24:04]
J. Kyle Mann
Yeah, I went with, like, narrative value, roster fit, and then fun factor. Just those three. Those three categories.
- [24:10]
Justin Varior
Okay. Did you guys factor in anything beyond that? Rob, I know, like, LeBron is talking about happiness is, like, his motivating factor here. I don't know really what that means, teens per se, considering his family is in LA and he went to LA specifically for similar reasons, so it's a little nebulous. Did you factor in anything else?
- [24:26]
Rob Mahoney
I mean, I think you factor in the finding joy aspect, in the sense of, like, would LeBron have a good time playing here? Like, would this be an experience that he would chase after or would want in some conceivable way, but that just usually ends up coming down to one of those other buckets anyway?
- [24:41]
Justin Varior
Yeah, so this is like a Marie Kondo sort of thing. Like, if you see Tyrese Maxey, like, and he sparks joy, just go toward him.
- [24:49]
Rob Mahoney
I mean, he always sparks joy. That's. That one's a no brainer.
- [24:52]
J. Kyle Mann
Very true.
- [24:54]
Justin Varior
Why don't we start with number fives here? Rob, you want to go with yours first?
- [24:58]
Rob Mahoney
So I have the Golden State warriors at number five.
- [25:01]
J. Kyle Mann
Okay, okay, okay.
- [25:03]
Rob Mahoney
Peak. Peak plausibility, perhaps. Like, I can really see this happening. I think it's probably still the favorite on the board, although I know the Cavs have maybe made some inroads just by the inaction out there. Otherwise in the market. I just think that the Steph LeBron connection clearly works so well, and it is one of the most powerful options anywhere on the board as far as where LeBron could go and who he could play with narratively, in terms of basketball, in terms of just, like, quality of life mechanically getting through the regular season, what could be better than playing with Steph Curry for a full year and kind of living out that particular dream? I just think we. We all deserve this in a way that transcends Olympic play or All Star Games or whatnot. And that includes LeBron and Steph, too.
- [25:48]
Justin Varior
Kyle, where do you have the Warriors?
- [25:50]
J. Kyle Mann
I have them at number two, actually, because I feel like the narrative value here is pretty strong, where you have the two, arguably the most important players, impactful players of their generation, American players, that is. I guess you should. You could. You could really quibble that, I guess. But we'll just go with it. I'll say that the two most important two guys born at the same hospital in Akron. Interestingly enough, not that the same.
- [26:12]
Justin Varior
Go back to where it really started.
- [26:14]
J. Kyle Mann
Go all the way back, baby. There was some nurse on duty that had, I don't know, maybe it was a nurture situation. We'll see there. In terms of the roster fit, it's a little clunkier I think, just because if you listen to the things that, that LeBron would want and you know, myself as a 41 year old pickup basketball player, I can kind of feel this. There are some days where you get put on a team where you're like, I'm going to end up having to do more than I want to with this group of players, you know what I mean? I'd rather have it to be calibrated where I can pick my spots and do the things and feel a little bit like I used to feel. But ultimately I don't want to carry the same usage load. It's kind of like when you look at the warriors, it's like Steph needs burden taken off of him. Beyond that, who really is going to be the person, you know, who's going to be the person taking the, the reps to, to, to lighten the load for those two guys. So I think it would be super, super fun. Like I went back and I was watching a lot of the actions where Steph and LeBron were involved with each other and, and like in the Olympics and it was a lot, a lot of fun in the pick and roll and the handoffs and things like that. But I feel like basketball wise it, it might be pretty clunky like them figuring out how to not overburden this team with their age defensively and then you know, take not burn them out offensively because there's past Steph, there's just not a lot of offensive options.
- [27:40]
Justin Varior
I ultimately had them number one and I did that because I just feel like the fit is like wide open for him. Like if you're looking at the depth charts as I have up here from ESPN.com right now, the, the starting five is set up and the which are
- [27:54]
J. Kyle Mann
always on point, right?
- [27:55]
Justin Varior
Yeah, 100 accurate all the time. G. Santos is, is right now the starting small forward for the Golden State Warriors. And I just feel like maybe that's just like me projecting on here because I see the void right happening, but there's just like clearly they need him. I think Kristaps coming back gives them the stretch option. At the very least could like like loosen things up in the offense a little bit, especially once Jimmy returns But I think Jimmy is really the sticking point here, where he's not expected back until February, and you don't know if he's actually going to come back then because he's coming back from a catastrophic injury at an advanced age. And so does LeBron want to, like, wait for him to come back? Does he really want to put his probably last year in the hands of the recovery of another player? That gets messy. But when he does come back, I feel like this is the type of team that suits his preferences, right? Where it's just like we're all on the same page, career wise, we all at the same level, star wattage wise, kind of varying. It just, I don't know, just feels like.
- [28:56]
Rob Mahoney
It feels.
- [28:57]
Justin Varior
If you're. You're playing the role of LeBron and you look at this team like this one feels more like something that he would be interested in.
- [29:04]
Rob Mahoney
It feels right in a bunch of different ways. I think the balance is kind of what we're laying out here, which is, do you pick the team that has players around you or maybe even coaches around you who are kind of at a similar stage of life, like people you can connect with, a community that you can be a part of with the team? Or do you pick the team that has the younger legs that could take some of the weight and the responsibility off of you? To the extent that LeBron wants that, I think he wants it to a point. He clearly wants to be involved. He wants to be one of the co authors of whatever team he joins in the season that they're going to have. But I think I just worry about the other part, like, between Steph and LeBron and Jimmy Butler, are all. Are any of those three guys going to end the season completely healthy? It feels like a long shot. Like there's going to be nagging injuries. Some of them could be taken out of the lineup altogether by the end of the season. Like, there's just like a lot hanging on their collective age in a way that I'm still down for the season. I'm still down for that team, that team construction. I hope it happens. Frankly, I just don't know if it's like the ideal fit for what he should be chasing at this point.
- [30:02]
J. Kyle Mann
It's real lack of piss and vinegar in that. In that alignment. That's all I'm saying, you know, because if you watch these playoffs, it was kind of a piss and vinegar playoffs. A lot of these backcourts, very, very physical at the point of attack. I think this will be a recurring thing. And as I was going down through the teams, thinking about what LeBron still can do, like in spurts, in controlled doses, and then also what is going to be. In order to get the most out of that stuff, I think you have to have some other counterbalancing factors on the floor. Not just the scoring part, but just I think ball pressure and defensive protection is going to be really key. And I just don't know necessarily see it with the warriors. So. And there's there. And that factored into some of my. My thought process. Yeah. For some of these other teams, too, that we can get into. Yeah.
- [30:47]
Justin Varior
I think the youth thing is interesting because on the one hand, I agree that he needs younger legs in order to pace him through the regular season. Most teams do, not just the older teams at this point. On the other hand, like, how much does like, the. The established veteran really want to hang out with the interns? You know, like, just in terms of like a vibes, like, getting through the season, Is there really an appeal to
- [31:08]
Rob Mahoney
that and really airing yourself out here, Justin, you know.
- [31:13]
Justin Varior
Well, I don't want to hang out with most people, so I'm a little bit of a different case. I also feel like with Pajemski in particular, like real Mario Chalmers, LeBron is just going to dog him the entire time.
- [31:24]
Rob Mahoney
Oh, sure.
- [31:24]
Justin Varior
And I almost wonder if, like, we're thinking nostalgia play, like, there's no throwback like LeBron just like yelling at a teammate who's younger than him. So there's that.
- [31:32]
Rob Mahoney
So you're telling me, like, before LeBron has his readers on, he could look at GI Santos and be like, oh, that's Anderson Varajao.
- [31:39]
Justin Varior
Right.
- [31:39]
J. Kyle Mann
LeBron playing in readers. It's funny.
- [31:43]
Justin Varior
Oh, yeah. Get some, like, goggles, Horace Grant style. But they're readers at the bottom of his.
- [31:48]
Rob Mahoney
I think it's beautiful. Get aging is beautiful, you know?
- [31:51]
J. Kyle Mann
Yeah, it really is.
- [31:52]
Justin Varior
Well, Kyle, what do you think about the young guys on this roster? They have Yoxel here, they have Pajemski. Will Richard was pretty good last year.
- [31:59]
Pharmaceutical Ad Reader
Yeah.
- [32:00]
J. Kyle Mann
And he's. He was good in some of the early. I haven't checked on the, like, last day or so summer league returns, but he's playing well. He's an older player, too. And I mean, I think it's important that we at least acknowled acknowledge them before people hear us, like, just roundly dismiss the. The warriors youth. Just say goodbye, you know, like, Yaxel is going to be. He's an older player. He's as. As we know, he's coming in at 24 years old, and I think he'll be able to, you know, take a lot of tougher defensive assignments. You have a lot of great, smart help on this team defensively. Like, it would be some of the wiser defensive helpers in the league. And I, I think LeBron, in terms of like, off ball processing and playing that. That chessboard, I still. His brain is, I mean, all time. I mean, it's arguably one of the best all time. That's offense and defense. So you have him and then you have. Obviously we talked about, you know, Pajimsky and. And Will Richard. I think those are the. Anthony Melton resigned. You know, we've been. I feel like the hypothetical. The Anthony Melton is sort of like moving away from what he really is more by the day. So maybe he'll rebound and have. Have a better year. But I don't know where you guys are on the younger. The younger players. It just feels like a lot's up in the air with. With them.
- [33:10]
Rob Mahoney
Yes.
- [33:11]
Justin Varior
I just think that there's enough in support of what they have in the structure versus what they tried before, which is to try to break that structure, to find something that would level them up. There are no longer these Jonathan Kaminga types. Unless I'm like, completely misreading Yoxel. I know he had some issues with some of the things he would say in interviews, but, like, if he could just play his role at least for this year, or they can get him to buy into a role this year, then level up down the road. Like, these guys support the team of a LeBron, Steph Draymond sort of vision, and then you could worry about that later in a way that, like, they probably hadn't before. And so, yeah, that's part of my. My understanding here, Rob, is like, I just think that it's more balanced than in the past where they're trying to mess with two timelines.
- [33:51]
Rob Mahoney
I. It definitely feels more balanced. It feels more. More cohesive for that reason. But it's also, not coincidentally, why they don't have the kinds of ball handlers that they might need. Like, you do have to walk this tightrope between being the style of team you want to be, but also having some pure bucket getters, having some creators, having some guys who are going to play a slightly different method, or else everything is just going to be running Steph Curry as he rounds into his late 30s, sprinting around ball screens every possession like you need alternatives. And look, LeBron gives you a lot of alternatives. He gives you a lot of ways to tap into offense. He can play his own version of bully ball, but really just using him as the trigger man for the greatest shooter to ever live, that's just going to make a lot of these guys really good within their roles. Cutting, slicing, hitting spot up shots. Like that foundation is going to be really fun and really good basketball, basically, no matter how you slice up the rest of the roster.
- [34:42]
Justin Varior
Well, you mentioned scores. Why don't we go to number five on my list, which is the Philadelphia 76ers, who now have an abundance of them, including clutch client Tyrese Maxey. Tm. I did find it funny when Rich Paul was going through the. The whole exercise there, he's like, oh, Tyrese Maxey. LeBron loves him and the Cavs don't have. Dearest Garland. That's a big one. Both of whom are his clients. I was waiting him to be. Basically be like, you know what? My. My intern Lucy just is from Chicago. Gotta put that up there. Really loves the Bean. Have you guys seen the Bean?
- [35:15]
Rob Mahoney
First of all, the Bean could get fucked. The Bean sucks.
- [35:18]
J. Kyle Mann
Oh.
- [35:18]
Justin Varior
As far as.
- [35:19]
Rob Mahoney
As far as landmarks go. Come on.
- [35:21]
Justin Varior
We can.
- [35:21]
Rob Mahoney
We can do better than the Bean
- [35:23]
J. Kyle Mann
man sucking good letters. There we go.
- [35:26]
Justin Varior
What's.
- [35:26]
Rob Mahoney
What's his actual name? The Millennium Arch or something like that?
- [35:29]
Justin Varior
I've never been.
- [35:30]
Rob Mahoney
Millennium Gate.
- [35:31]
J. Kyle Mann
What.
- [35:31]
Rob Mahoney
What is the Bean called?
- [35:33]
J. Kyle Mann
The Bean. Wow. There we go.
- [35:35]
Rob Mahoney
The Cloud Gate. Sorry. The Cloud Gate.
- [35:37]
J. Kyle Mann
Is the Bean worth being? Like, is it worth saying, get Rob.
- [35:41]
Rob Mahoney
That's a.
- [35:42]
J. Kyle Mann
You're really going nuclear on a pretty inanimate object that just looks cool. And it's not like, well, there's your problem.
- [35:48]
Rob Mahoney
I. I guess. Here's the thing. When you're of a certain age, you just get inundated with photos of your friends in their reflection at the Bean. And it's like, this is so the 700th most interesting thing about Chicago. A great American city. Go during the summertime. It's unbeatable. Just don't go to the cloud gate.
- [36:07]
Justin Varior
He twisted the Sears Tower.
- [36:09]
Rob Mahoney
Come on.
- [36:10]
J. Kyle Mann
He twisted that where he's pro Chicago. That was. That was a savvy move. That's fine. That's fine. I just, you know.
- [36:18]
Justin Varior
All right, well, with the Sixers here, I. There's a lot going on for them. I almost wonder if there's too much. This is just like a really messy situation to really be vaulting yourself into if there's a fit there. Clearly, if you just want to take the Dean Wade spot in that starting lineup, it would be one of the most star studded starting lineups I've seen in recent history. Having said that, similar things with Embiid as with Butler, where it's just like you're not really sure when he's going to play, if he's ever going to play, and when he does play, just feels like he wants to be pretty demonstrative about how he goes about his business. And it's more lurching and slower than ever before. And with Butler, at the very least, you know that there's a finish line and it might just be that he'll be back and then we go from there. Whereas with him b the start stop nature in addition to, like, how Jalen Brown is just going to really weave his way into this team. Rob, for me, it's an attractive talent package, but as a full, like, fleshed out team, I just don't think it's there yet. And so I have them at number five.
- [37:15]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, I actually had them as kind of an honorable mention for that reason. It. It could happen. Ostensible, like, again, they're on the whiteboard for a reason. And the talent play for that kind of void at power forward, if you want to call it that. Fair play. Plug LeBron in there. His super processing brain would clearly help these guys fit together. I also think it might just be over complicating him. Overcomplicating it to put him there when they're already having the Jaylen Brown, like, like massive addition and massive amount of sea change that comes with that. To the point that, I mean, you talked about the fit, Justin, but I kind of think Dean Wade fits what they need more than LeBron fits what they need. No one's going to turn their nose up at adding LeBron James to a roster under basically any circumstances, or at least they shouldn't. But, like, they need perimeter defense, they need spacing, they need guys who are going to allow Jalen Brown and Tyrese Maxey and Joel Embiid to workshop their way into being a viable trio. LeBron can assist in some of that stuff, but, like, his standing, his reputation, in some ways even his ego might be like, a little too big for that kind of like, honestly, like tertiary sort of role, even within that setup.
- [38:23]
J. Kyle Mann
Well, I'll surprise you guys here. I have the Sixers as my number one destination for.
- [38:28]
Justin Varior
Let's go.
- [38:30]
Rob Mahoney
All right, talk us through it.
- [38:31]
J. Kyle Mann
Make the pitch fun factor, obviously. Whatever. Who gives a. At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter if you're having fun. You know, LeBron's not going to go anywhere just because of fun. I mean, he wants to win, win. I think the roster fit here really makes a ton of sense if you were going to allow LeBron to sort of sit in a La Z Boy recliner for the longest amount of time on any one of these teams and still maximize the things that he does really well. I'm not going to make the maxi pun. I thought about it for a split second. This would be the team. If you think about all the scoring guards that the scoring tilted guards on this team, scoring tilted players, you'd be giving LeBron a lot of toys. I just think that that would be. He would be in the position to pick his spots when he wanted to play in movements where you have the kinetic movement of the. You could even throw Simons and Phylon, like, mix him in with those teams. You'd be unburdening those guys. He might average 10 or 11 assists a game on this team, like I think he would be. It would be a really, really fun fit. There's no real narrative angle here other than the gansey thing, but. But I think basketball wise, this would be very, very fun. Putting LeBron in Philly definitely would help
- [39:43]
Justin Varior
them pace out the regular season. And so you could play through whatever embiid injuries happen. You could play through whatever LeBron wants to play. And whenever he decides not to. I. I guess the question is, does it force Jalen Brown into more of a supplementary role? Because we were already saying Brown's arrival probably forces Tyrese Maxey to do a little bit less. Is Brown in his first year with Philly, if he wants to do this, like, revenge tour, is this going to force him to be, a few years ago, playing off of Kyrie's style, Jalen Brown, where I'm more of like, a supplementary defender, like just attacking off of the. The catch sort of guy, versus someone who's the main spotlight, you know, and like, LeBron soaks up all the oxygen in a room. Is he going to want that? But you're right. If he's willing to do that, then certainly if it's. If not, it just seems a little clunky to me.
- [40:32]
Rob Mahoney
I just think you need a lot of people who are willing to do things like, how little are we willing to accept from Tyrese Maxey is kind of the question. If you. If you plunk LeBron onto this team, because now LeBron would be functional either point guard in a lot of ways. Maxi would be unlocked as a scorer, but Jalen Brown is going to get up a lot of shots. Joel Embiid is going to get up a lot of shots. I just feel the squeeze coming for too many of those guys where I'm already like. Like wanting to wait and see and eager to see what Jalen Brown does to the makeup of this team and everyone's habits and influences and, like, the roles that they're playing within the offense. Adding LeBron, it does feel like one ingredient too many to me, but also, like, what. I'm not turning it down. Like, I would love to see that. I would love to see LeBron try to help these guys along, even if maybe it's not ultimately what's best for them.
- [41:20]
Justin Varior
Yeah, I think just put this. Keep putting the spices in there.
- [41:24]
Rob Mahoney
Do you put a lot of spice in baba ganoush?
- [41:26]
Justin Varior
I don't know. I'm just saying.
- [41:28]
J. Kyle Mann
Holy hell.
- [41:29]
Rob Mahoney
I've never made freak on top. Maybe, but even that's more of a hummus thing. I gotta say.
- [41:33]
J. Kyle Mann
I think the. The Jalen scaling down thing would be the main variable because LeBron has been. His touch time and his dribble time has, like, been ramping down over the past five seasons. So he is obviously, whether he's, like, excited about it or not, he has been sort of drifting towards this, maximizing the. The things, like, he's really, really good in the short role. Like, I was going back and just kind of watching his actions directly with Luca, like, how he navigated that. Like, he's still one of the best short role players ever. I mean, when. When he's playing in that situation. So having him there, where they overplay a score like a maxi or a Jalen Brown, I think you take pressure off of those two guys being home run hitter, passers. I think you can let them just kind of be who they are. And it's just like, Jalen, go try to get buckets and pick and roll. Tyrese, same kind of thing. You could even go four or five with Joel a little bit. I just think if guys were willing to slide in scale, that would make. I think it would make Philly the best offensive team in the league, arguably, if he went there.
- [42:31]
Rob Mahoney
I mean, they would be crazy if they kind of maxed out their potential. What all those guys can do if you get them to work in concert would be unbelievable. And I also. I think we might be downplaying the narrative angle a little bit. In. In the shadow of a season where the Knicks just won the title, LeBron going to Philly, like a long suffering franchise in many respects. I mean, they've had some playoff success, but haven't won a title in almost 50 years. Have had some real low lows. LeBron coming at the tail end of like this process era and putting them over the top into. Into contention. If everything went right, I do think there's some value there. And I do think the Sixers as an institution have a reputation and a standing that is like, like, okay, that is a team. I could see LeBron actually going to.
- [43:16]
Justin Varior
LeBron, who wore six because of Julius Irving. Do they allow him to wear it for the one season that he's there? Like, yeah, you could definitely write out the script a little bit.
- [43:24]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [43:24]
J. Kyle Mann
Interesting. Do we make much of the golf store thing or the where do you all like the social media sort of campaign thing? Because he was in.
- [43:32]
Justin Varior
He.
- [43:33]
J. Kyle Mann
He was in Akron. Right. Also really hiding, I'm. I have to say, also in that club, just out in plain sight in a club. I don't know, I feel like it's like just barely shrouded the social campaign that's going on.
- [43:46]
Justin Varior
Yeah, well, I mean, who. Who among us doesn't go home for a little summer visit? I don't know how much to read whenever LeBron is in Cleveland, but they're probably the favorite. If we want to talk about the Cavs. I have the Cavs at three, unfortunately, I think for all the narrative reasons, they probably are top on this list. Probably the most likely scenario, especially if you're factoring in LeBron wanting to be in the east because the easier path to the conference finals at the very least. I just don't see how he fits alongside James Harden. I also think it's a very girthy front court if you put LeBron, Mobley and Allen there. Like, are we trading Jared Allen at that point in order to feature Mobley? Is Mobley ready for that considering he keeps getting beasted in playoff scenarios? But the big thing is, like, harden in LeBron defensively. First of all, they're both basically power fours defensively at this point, but also they want to be on the ball and so. And Mitchell wants the ball, and so it's just like, it's very cluttered and so basketball fit wise. I almost wonder if they just like erase the past couple months since the deadline and just walk back the Harden thing and just don't sign him. That would be great, but as long as he's there, Rob, I just, I don't see it.
- [44:56]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, I ended. I had Times where I was making this list and they were not on the list for pure basketball reasons. And then I had times I was making it and they're number one on the list for all of the narrative propulsion LeBron going back to Cleveland would bring. And so I ended up just putting them at three and kind of splitting some of that difference where they are complex in terms of offensively, there's just a lot going on between LeBron and Harden and Mitchell for all the reasons you just described. Defensively, all three of those guys need help and should not be chasing around the top scorers in the league on a game to game basis. Like that's kind of a nightmare scenario in terms of trying to manage a functional playoff level level defense. And yet there are some things that are just bigger than basketball. And it's like pretending that these guys, especially someone of LeBron's caliber and place in history, would think about their free agent decision as like, where do I fall on the org chart is just not realistic and not true to the spirit of this kind of exercise and true to what kind of decisions human beings make at this stage in their life. Like going back to a place where he played his most meaningful basketball, a place that is adjacent to his hometown, effectively that is his hometown team. That to me feels like a better conceptual fit than so many of the other ones that might technically be cleaner or have a vacancy at power forward or like make sense for this reason or that like the Cavs just fit and they would have to figure out the basketball as they go. And yeah, it would be really complicated, but we can't pretend we don't see it or we wouldn't understand why it would happen. Like it's the most human option on the board for him to just go back to Cleveland.
- [46:30]
J. Kyle Mann
I just, I have a hard time with the Cleveland one because you mentioned it like the defensive thing. I just think I, I have a hard time seeing him pick any team where the, the opening like the front door to their defense is like pen, it's penetrated consistently if teams are getting into the first and second level. And I just think mixing the Harden and the, the Donovan Mitchell thing there, I just think it would be a tough, you know, you have a nice backstop off stop with, with Jarrett and, and with Evan. But I just think I, I agree with you. I think there would have to be some kind of movement there. And I think that both of those guys, you know, we wanted Donovan to kind of move into this, you know, too smaller guard, you know, moving off ball More kind of a thing. And they would do it here and there, but they never fully embraced it when it was him and Garland together. And I'm just like, Harden is less and less likely to be a part of that. I mean, it's just. It's really clunky to me. I. I wrote this down. This is pretty wild. So there 37 guys in the league were in the 5,000-touches club this past season, and only Shea had a longer touch time and dribbles per touch than Harden. So Harden was number two and he had the lowest efficiency in the top 10. So this is a guy who is. He's not. You know, we're talking about LeBron embracing the fact that he's going to have to engage with off ball stuff, be less involved directly with it. Harden's going the other way. It's like he's. He's going towards just like, the only way I can stay on the floor now is if I have it in my hands all the time. And I just don't think you're maximized. It's like the worst version of what he was with Luca. Like, I just don't. I just don't see it. I don't see it working. And then the. The narrative side of it. 2016 was just like such a great. I know it didn't end. It end in 2016, but that's the last thing that we remember. It's just like, can you remember like a TV show or a movie or whatever it is that had a perfect endpoint? And then they came back again. It was like, you didn't need to come back. Like, leave it there.
- [48:23]
Justin Varior
Veronica Mars, what are you doing?
- [48:25]
Rob Mahoney
Okay, please be respectful. Please respect our legends.
- [48:29]
J. Kyle Mann
Did you throw that at Rob on purpose? Because that Veronica Mars feels like an extremely robbed show. I don't know why.
- [48:35]
Rob Mahoney
Well, look, guilty as charged.
- [48:37]
Justin Varior
Didn't they bring it back specifically because the fans, like, they like put money toward it or there was enough of an outcry or something.
- [48:45]
Rob Mahoney
I'm so glad you asked.
- [48:46]
J. Kyle Mann
So.
- [48:47]
Justin Varior
Jesus Christ.
- [48:48]
Rob Mahoney
Three seasons. The third season was already kind of going off the rails a little bit because they were trying to get people to watch it. They had to judge of the structure. Show gets canceled. Then they kickstart a movie that is like pure fan service. Absolute dreck. Then they revive it again as a Hulu series. Short lived. A little more like Hard Boiled. I actually really liked it. Ends in like the controversial killing, I guess. Spoiler alert for Veronica Mars. I'm not going to say Any names but the controversial killing of a beloved loved character. People lost their minds. Let me tell you, in my corner of the world, this was a huge deal. I did not. I actually. I actually kind of liked it.
- [49:25]
Justin Varior
Okay, well, so maybe there's hope for LeBron there.
- [49:27]
Rob Mahoney
I think. I think so. If this is season four of Veronica Mars, I'm gonna be happy. I don't know how happy everyone else will be.
- [49:33]
J. Kyle Mann
I don't see the narrative value there. I just don't. I don't. I don't know what the point is. Like, I feel like it's just better for him to stretch his narrative out in another direction, because the Cleveland thing was just so satisfying. The end of it. Like, why go back? I don't know.
- [49:45]
Rob Mahoney
You don't see the narrative value in a guy going back home to play with people that he may like in a place that he enjoys.
- [49:53]
J. Kyle Mann
LeBron's so global now. It's just kind of like.
- [49:55]
Rob Mahoney
I don't know, he transcends time and place.
- [49:58]
J. Kyle Mann
He's the Beatles. He belongs to everybody. It's just. There's a point where he. He just did that. I just feel like his career has crossed over into this. Like, he's not beholden to one place. It's more just. It's. It's so expansive. It's like, why don't just expand it into another area? Like playing with Steph. That's more interesting to me. Like, going back to Cleveland, it's like, I feel like Cleveland should be satisfied. Right? They should. They can't really be mad. It was perfect.
- [50:24]
Justin Varior
He just goes to Denver instead and just becomes, like, a dispensary guy. You know, just invests in the pop business, gets into new terrain.
- [50:32]
Rob Mahoney
Well, we'll table that. They may be coming up on this list.
- [50:35]
Justin Varior
Okay, well, Kyle, who. Where did you have the Cavs? Did you have them on your top five?
- [50:39]
J. Kyle Mann
I had him at five. Okay.
- [50:41]
Justin Varior
Solid. Yeah. Rob, you had the warriors at five. You had the Cavs at three. Who do you have at four?
- [50:49]
Rob Mahoney
So at four, I have a team that I feel like is not being talked about a lot. That makes a good deal of sense to me, and that's the Houston Rockets.
- [50:58]
Justin Varior
Okay, I don't have.
- [51:00]
Rob Mahoney
I really don't see this option being bandied about. I don't believe they made an appearance on the whiteboard, unless I'm mistaken. But if we're talking about reuniting or in this case, uniting LeBron with Team USA teammates, but also, like, foils of a former life, LeBron and Kevin Durant playing together would be pretty rich. I also think it's like, team up with Kevin Durant, incredible pairing of scoring and playmaking between them. Play for a contender that so clearly needs what LeBron brings to the table and just enter your, like, late stage Magic Johnson era. Like, everything that we were talking about as far as, like, the kind of passer he could be for the Sixers, I think he could do that and more with the Rockets, if you just imagine how much they needed and missed Fred Van Vliet, and then you make Fred Van Vliet Six, nine, and as good as LeBron, I just think it could kind of work. Like, he would help these guys run. And Gun, you have Amen Thompson and Tari Eason all game to take defensive responsibility off of LeBron. You're setting Katie up possession after possession. You have Shangoon to short roll, help with the playmaking, do all those things. Like, I, I. It would be a little clunky in terms of the spacing sometimes and, like, a lot would fall on. Is Jabari hitting his threes on this particular night? But I kind of like it and I would kind of love to see it.
- [52:18]
J. Kyle Mann
A lot of, A lot of patrons with big stomachs and open mouths that really need a chef, and LeBron would be an incredible caterer for them. Like, he could come in and just, just be like, hey, Reed shepherd, your life is infinitely easier in all these different ways. Kd, like, I mean, Katie, that's one. You know, kd, obviously just making his life easier. A lot of these guys, Jabari, it's. That's the kind of character of this roster is they just have guys who can do things, but they just need that first step. And I think LeBron could. He'd be just an upgraded version of what Shing Shingoon does for them. I mean, Shingu would be an interesting variable to this, though. Like, what would happen with that, do you think? Think, like, does he go to the bench? Could they play together? I don't know.
- [52:59]
Justin Varior
Well, especially because the, the clip that's kicking around my mind as Rob was laying this out is LeBron saying on the foul line to Shen Gun, not you. Anyone can say it, but not you. Which is a tough beat for him. I, I like the, the general thinking you have here where it's like, LeBron seems best served, like, bringing up a talented group of young players, especially the Rockets, who seem like they need an adult. Adult in the room in the very worst ways. Like, you talk about Jabari Smith hitting open threes how about Jabari Smith recognizing time and place and situation and just knowing what to do with the ball on a given possession because he has so much talent, but good God, that guy just cannot make any sort of reason to fly.
- [53:37]
J. Kyle Mann
And so for that, LeBron has a history of loving those guys that the lose track of time and situation. Right?
- [53:43]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, that's true.
- [53:43]
J. Kyle Mann
That's right.
- [53:44]
Rob Mahoney
It goes well.
- [53:45]
Justin Varior
At the very least, he has 10,000 hours there. I think Kevin Durant is an interesting variable there because on the one hand, I. I agree with you. I think, like, trying to bookend, like, well, if it's not Steph, maybe it's the other guy on Team usa. That's a nice little story. And I also feel like Kevin Durant's, like, the worst sort of player for this team, as we found out, not just because of his extracurricular activities on. On his Twitter accounts or maybe potentially allegedly. It's also, like, they need this guy to rear the youth. But, like, whenever you need kd, he's just, like, over in the corner working on his bag with, like, the big old headphones on. He's like, I'll see you guys later. I gotta. I gotta work on my dribble step. Hesi, pull up. It's fine here. So for the. I don't know. I just can't.
- [54:27]
Rob Mahoney
But this is what LeBron is for. LeBron is the, like, let's go to top golf guy. And KD can work on his bag. You know, like, there can be something for everybody.
- [54:35]
J. Kyle Mann
Let KD be the brooding one to the side, making comments like, you gotta stabilize that. There was too much power. Okay. It was tipped too much towards kd.
- [54:43]
Justin Varior
Yeah, I just. So the front court would be shen goon and LeBron, or would be Jabari
- [54:48]
Rob Mahoney
and LeBron, I think.
- [54:50]
J. Kyle Mann
Who's.
- [54:51]
Rob Mahoney
I think Adams. No, no, I. To be clear, I'm slotting LeBron and is, like, an actual point guard for this team. Like, I think. I think Amen is rotating around guarding whoever you need him to guard. But you're playing LeBron. Ahmed Thompson, Katie, Jabari Shanguin, probably as your starters.
- [55:09]
Justin Varior
I don't hate it as much as I thought I would. The defense, I'll take it to be a concern, but, you know, it's about as good of a fit as some of these other ones we've mentioned. So.
- [55:18]
Rob Mahoney
And I think.
- [55:18]
Justin Varior
Interesting.
- [55:19]
Rob Mahoney
It's not just, like, who can guard, but who can guard flexibly because, like, Ahmed Thompson can guard at least one through three, even some power forwards. Jabari Smith, One of the best bigs in terms of chasing wings and guards around if he has to do that. And so, so if you have to, like, cover for both LeBron and Kevin Durant to try to make their lives easier on defense, I think those are two pretty good ways to start.
- [55:40]
Justin Varior
Okay, Kyle, do you want to go with your number four now?
- [55:45]
J. Kyle Mann
Rocket's not on my list, by the way. Number four. I have the Minnesota Timberwolves for the, for the main reasons I don't, I don't. This isn't my favorite one. I'm not going to act like because I have a hard time seeing LeBron signing up for aspects of this because the, the chaos of The LaMelo ant LeBron idea would be extremely fun. He would be an incredible mentor for those two guys defensively though. I mean, so the fun factor, very high. The roster fit. I think they could use him talking about, like, teams that are going to have a very strong front line of, of defense to protect him and not overburden him. They can help him on all fronts. Like, I mean, you've got a good backstop. Granted, Rudy has his issues. I think LeBron would help Rudy. But you have McDaniels, you have IO, you have Jalen Clark. Underrated. I think you have, you know, and I just think defensively they'd be in a pretty good spot and I think he could fill in there at that spot where the, the Randall Nas Reed thing and do basically everything that those guys did in and more and more and more. And you like, like quintuple the, the basketball field and iq. I think he'd be a fun fit there, but I, I, there's no narrative angle there at all. It would just be him feeling bad for the Wolves, I guess. I don't know. Or Minnesota or. Why. What would be the angle? But basketball wise, it makes sense. I just don't know that he, I would, I could see him signing up to like, tutor those two guys.
- [57:13]
Rob Mahoney
This is my favorite option by far. It is.
- [57:16]
J. Kyle Mann
That's my number one for you.
- [57:17]
Rob Mahoney
This is my number one. It was, it wasn't even close. Zero hesitation. Minnesota Timberwolves with a bullet. I, I disagree about the narrative angle. First of all, I think, I really think when you're trying to chart where LeBron will go, yeah, it's. Can you go back to Cleveland? Sure. Can you team up with Steph and Golden State? I think the idea of going to a team and saving it is like one of the few things he has, like, left that he could do.
- [57:42]
Pharmaceutical Ad Reader
Right?
- [57:42]
Rob Mahoney
Like Go to one of these teams that has never won a title. Go to one of these teams that hasn't been able to break through a particular wall. Like, I thought, honestly, it was instructive in Rich Paul on the pod Talking about why LeBron won't sign with the Knicks, basically because they already won the championship, and if they hadn't, he would probably be there. That's kind of part of the thinking, right? It's like, who. Who are the teams that really need what LeBron brings to the table? And LeBron, I mean, just one of, like, the I can fix him kings. Like, going. Going into Minnesota, helping Ant elevate his game, getting Lamelo to play like nails, like, more focused basketball, taking Rudy to a place he's never been before, but also in the process, like, I think having the balance of, like, he can bring a lot to the Wolves, and they have everything that he needs to do a little bit less and get through a full season and take the pressure off. Like, Ant is a score, Lamelo is a playmaker. Jaden McDaniels and Rudy as defenders, and Ant, when he's really locked in as a defender, to say nothing about. I agree with you on Jalen Clark. Like, that's a. That's a. A prototypical LeBron teammate if I've ever seen one. It just makes sense. I don't know if it will make sense in his mind, but it. It certainly makes sense to me.
- [58:52]
Justin Varior
See, unfortunately for Minnesota, a place I've never been to but seems lovely, especially in the summer, that just strikes me as the type of place where LeBron would be, like, Minnesota. I'm going to spend my last year in the pros just freezing my balls off trying to get.
- [59:06]
Sponsor/Ad Reader
Cleveland.
- [59:06]
J. Kyle Mann
Yeah, I was going to say that. Cold, tropical Cleveland. Yeah, yeah.
- [59:11]
Rob Mahoney
Minnesota.
- [59:11]
Justin Varior
You're taking the skywalk to get off of the road because you can't be outside when it's a certain time of the year. Like, there are degrees to this.
- [59:20]
Rob Mahoney
Sure.
- [59:20]
Justin Varior
I just don't know if he wants to do that year. I think the other part of this is, like, on the one hand, yes, there are young players there that he put his stamp on. I feel like the task of trying to breathe life into Lamelo on a daily basis and, like, trying to get him to, like, lock in, which is
- [59:36]
Rob Mahoney
driving nothing if not life. That's not the issue.
- [59:39]
Justin Varior
Okay, well, trying to build structure around our friend Lamello Ball and trying to get him on task would send anyone to the insane asylum. Like, I just wrote down for. For the Wolves. Here on my doc Knuckleheads and, and like yeah, it might be fun to play off of those guys. Those Zany Edwards and Lamella Ball, they're just eating skittles at practice. Isn't this fun? But on the other hand, like trying to get them to like like execute at the highest level when you have your last year on the line, that seems really difficult.
- [60:10]
Rob Mahoney
I just think historically LeBron has been a bring me your knuckleheads kind of guy. Like that's, that's where he lives and breathes is try is like showing people hey, you are wrong about this particular basketball talent. He may not work everywhere, he may not work in these other situations with these other stars, but he will work with me. But maybe that's more trouble than it's worth it this point. But that does seem like how he likes to operate.
- [60:32]
Justin Varior
Sure. But with his best player. Like his go to teammates. Like the big threes aren't usually where the knuckleheadedness is concentrated.
- [60:40]
Rob Mahoney
Well, the knuckleheadedness in this case is concentrated in one of the best players in the entire world. And also like a clearly all star level offensive talent who just led one of the best offenses in the league.
- [60:50]
Justin Varior
I like how we're just like full throated arguing over this hypothetical.
- [60:56]
J. Kyle Mann
I honestly think Ant needs, needs less help. Like Ann has completely convinced me that he's okay. Like I just feel like his accountability has like he's been more account. He's really, really impressed me with how like willing he is to be like take inventory of his strengths and weaknesses and where he's his faults and things. And when he screwed up. I used to say that it's, it's more of a stage of career thing where like LeBron in the Cavs Lakers era, sort of when he was peak of his powers, ultimate floor raiser probably of all time. I always said that he had this power called contextual healing. And at one point I tried to write a parody to that and it failed. But I just think that at this stage of his career I'm like, I just don't know how much he's wanting to flex that muscle. Like I feel like he wants a little more help. Even though I think that he could help those guys. I don't know. It could, it could happen. It could. I mean that would be a really, really good basketball team. So I, I don't have a great argument. It's just kind of like does he want to sign up for that was my main. Like I don't Know, I don't know
- [61:54]
Rob Mahoney
if you're getting much more help than Anthony Edwards and Lamello ball on offense, McDaniels and Gobert on defense, like, that's. That's pretty much an ideal balance set up for a guy like LeBron.
- [62:04]
Justin Varior
Yes. That's why I had them for, because I think the team fit is probably the best there. But in terms of personalities, I also like, Rudy's a very prickly sort. I don't know if LeBron, like, wants to gravitate toward this. It seems like he wants something like a known quantity, and the closest that we have there is ant from their Team USA days, but it's just like, how much is he really on his level? He's not really a peer per se. He's more of like someone who idolized LeBron going up. So I. I don't know in Minnesota factors in here, so I don't see it happening. But I agree with you that, like, in terms of basketball, it probably is one of, if not the best, like, options for him. Have we talked about the Nuggets yet?
- [62:46]
Rob Mahoney
We have not.
- [62:47]
Justin Varior
So I have the Sixers at five. I have the Wolves at four, Cavs at three, who we've all mentioned in the warriors at one. The last team I have is the Nugget, so I have it. Number two.
- [62:57]
Rob Mahoney
I do as well.
- [62:58]
Justin Varior
Okay. I just think basketball wise, it makes a lot of sense. I think if we're talking about the age range LeBron perhaps wants to gravitate toward right there, guys who are on the cusp of something. Clearly, last year didn't go particularly well, but I almost wonder if we're overestimating how much of a catastrophe it was when they had a pretty clear issue and a lot of it was injury related. It was. Obviously the defense is going to be a concern. It becomes more of a concern with LeBron in there, but the offense can be just so blistering that it might just not matter. Maybe you're worried about Aaron Gordon's health, Maybe you're worried about Jamal Murray not being the same sort of player he was last regular season. There's a lot of things to, like, maybe, maybe quibble about. But just in terms of, like, a team that's like, right there on the edge, it just feels like LeBron would want to just be the one to push someone over the top. And also, apparently on this whiteboard, Cronky is a factor here, given his sure success in the LA market and some of his other teams. So there's that as well. I Don't know. I just like, spiritually, it feels like a Jokic, LeBron thing is the type of thing basketball fans want. And LeBron ultimately is probably one of the biggest basketball fans. And so I wonder if he would want to experiment with that as well.
- [64:10]
Rob Mahoney
Oh, it would be. It would be sick. I mean, Jokic, LeBron, Aaron Gordon, Jamal Murray in particular, those guys share a basketball sensibility that I think would just be scintillating to see them play off of each other. He would fit really seamlessly into so much of what they do. I would quibble though, Justin, with like, the idea that their offense might be, like, so potent enough. It's going to be overpowering as it is. Like, I thought, if anything, entering the playoffs, you saw some of the limitations, granted, with certain guys injured, but, like, Jamal Murray was so overtaxed and Jokic was had to go so far just to keep them solvent on offense. I do think they need to do something dramatic. Bringing in one of the greatest playmakers of all time is pretty dramatic and I think would catalyze so many of the things that already work there and unlock some things that aren't being tapped into, even with Jokic there by, like, playing alongside him. So. So this is kind of the juice that they need. This is like the accelerant for everything that you like about the Nuggets without, I don't think really taking away those elements at all.
- [65:10]
J. Kyle Mann
I had them at number three. I think that the stuff you're all hitting on is when it is true, like when I was going through, like, his superstar fits, you know, him with a helio guy. It's like, you can make it work, but I think the ultimate version of him is going to be with. I keep using this phrase low touch time. And I think the two candidates to like, really give us the most fun, approaching nirvana version of basketball would be Stefan Lebron or Jokic and LeBron. And they'd be different versions because it's like, naturally, like, Jokic isn't going to be humming off ball the way Steph would, but you would have Jamal Murray, granted, he stays healthy. You and Cam Johnson, I think would be a pretty fun option to throw in there too. Like, in terms of you get the off ball movement, you get LeBron in these situations where, you know, over the course of the season, thinking about how I want to use LeBron, like, I don't want him pounding the ball for three or four dribbles per per touch. I don't want him going downhill and taking that contact. I Want him one or two dribbles in a straight line. He's still very, very effective like that. So I don't want him like, accruing and amassing sort of damage over the course of the season. That's going to wear him down. But when you think about the teams across the League, League. Putting LeBron and Yokos together, man, it's just incomparable. There's no, there's no previous thing that resembles it. It would be the God. Like, it would be the best, like, double fulcrum offensive setup. I can't think of a better one. I, I really. I don't. I don't think that there's anything similar to it in the history of basketball. If those two play together.
- [66:41]
Justin Varior
Yeah.
- [66:42]
Rob Mahoney
What would even be the closest comp as far as, like, two past. No. There is no two passers of this level that have ever played together, but on an actual NBA team and not like a dream team. I don't even know what could come close.
- [66:55]
J. Kyle Mann
It would be Bird Walton. I. That would be. Would.
- [66:58]
Rob Mahoney
That's a pretty good one.
- [66:59]
J. Kyle Mann
I think that would be the one. And both of those dudes are still capable of being elite. Go get it yourself, guys. It would be so, so, so, so fun. I might move it to two. Honestly, I'm talking myself into it.
- [67:10]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [67:11]
Justin Varior
And they also have the Peyton Watson factor here. I almost wonder if as a result of this, he probably has to go elsewhere because we should mention Peyton Watson, also a clutch client. And so is this a way to get Peyton Watson somewhere where he could be featured and then slide LeBron and is there like a kind of a quid pro quo there going there? I also think, like, if you look back last year with the Nuggets, I think part of the problem with their offense was they didn't have guys like that. They didn't have Watson, who was such a critical part of his offense. Offense. And Gordon wasn't there. They would be a little hefty in the front court if you're counting on a Gordon LeBron Jokic front line, because you'd assume it would be Jamal Murray and Cam Johnson, like, complimenting them. But I just think there's just so much creation to just put them into a playoff situation and just have them solve problems. Like you just have two locksmiths, like, just working in concert together. It's just like you're cracking safe left and right, depending on what. Whoever the team is. And so it's an interesting fit. And for that reason, I have him. Number two. Did we Mention everyone on everyone's lists. Kyle, do you have anyone left?
- [68:17]
J. Kyle Mann
Yeah, we got all mine. We haven't talked about the Heat. That's one that's been thrown.
- [68:21]
Rob Mahoney
We should talk about them.
- [68:22]
J. Kyle Mann
Yeah, that's the only other one. Yeah.
- [68:26]
Justin Varior
I didn't have them on my list in part because I just assumed Norm Powell was going to be there just to have any semblance of shooting. And you look up and down this roster, it's just, it's lacking a lot of juice outside of there. You're just hoping and praying that Bam is going to be putting up threes more than even last year when he was just like, really settling into that being a main part of his, his offense. There's. It just feels like they're at least a year away from being highly competitive. And for that reason, I just don't see wasting perhaps your final year in basketball, like, trying to make sense of, of something that, like, you stripped yourself down in order to build something anew, rather than LeBron wanting to be a finishing piece to something that's already established.
- [69:06]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, I just don't really think it would be what he or Giannis or Bam would really want in terms of the kind of basketball that they would be forced to play. Like, all three of them would have to give up some of the fun things about being a star and just do more dirty work to make their, like, union make sense. For all those reasons, especially the lack of space facing, I like, it wouldn't be a disaster. I think it would be totally fine. I think the Heat are going to be good with or without LeBron contending in the east, certainly. But I, I just don't think relative to some of these other options, it's really what he would sign up for or really what the people there would want.
- [69:38]
J. Kyle Mann
I think it'd be Helio model superstar without the uphill gravity, which I think would be really, really difficult for LeBron at this stage. Like Giannis and LeBron together, I mean, it would have to be inverted. It'd have to be the other way around. And we've seen that Giannis isn't really excited about playing that style of basketball. I just, it would be a pretty clunky fit, I think.
- [69:57]
Rob Mahoney
Wait, Kyle, genuine question. What is uphill gravity shooting grab?
- [70:03]
J. Kyle Mann
Just you pulling. You want uphill? It's just you pull everybody towards the half court line.
- [70:08]
Rob Mahoney
Sure.
- [70:09]
J. Kyle Mann
I mean, like, everybody. Higher pickup points. Like, you're not jumping the level of a screen when, when Giannis is coming. You're, you're, you're playing drop, you know, and I think that'd be tough for LeBron. Yeah.
- [70:19]
Rob Mahoney
Makes total sense.
- [70:22]
Justin Varior
Also, are we sure that pat Riley and LeBron are, like, good?
- [70:25]
Rob Mahoney
Well, I think that that would be the reconciliation here. Right. Like, that's some of the narrative value.
- [70:31]
Justin Varior
Right, right. My understanding is it didn't end well and still never got past the point where they reconciled. So you're right. This would have to be the reconciliation. This isn't like, they are. They're good now and then. They had to figure this out. Everyone's going to be on the same page, moving forward in lock step.
- [70:48]
Rob Mahoney
I mean, bottles of wine would have to be opened, dinners would have to be had. Like, tense conversations in Pat Riley's office, I'm sure. Or, like, wherever. But, like, that is the prerequisite. And so that's some of the appeal of some of these teams. It's like, what would it take for LeBron to want to sign up for that? And I just don't know that there's enough here to overcome, like, having to mend that particular fence for this basketball reason.
- [71:11]
J. Kyle Mann
That was a funny one, because I kind of understood both of them where it was like, I was like, Riley's perspective, I was just like, he's not wrong. I mean, I kind of understand. But then from LeBron's perspective, I was like, yeah, I'd be a little offended by that, too. I'd be like, buddy, this is. This is a different era. Like, you know, this ain't. This ain't the same thing. And I'm. I'm kind of different from everybody else. Don't talk to me like that. I kind of understood both sides.
- [71:33]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, definitely.
- [71:34]
Justin Varior
There are 29 other teams that will let my friends on the plane.
- [71:37]
J. Kyle Mann
Thank you very much.
- [71:39]
Justin Varior
I still think the other two teams I've written down there, I still think the Knicks are an attractive option. They don't really need him. And the narrative is muddled, but, like, would have fit really well. The New York possibility was something that was kicked around for years and on a daily basis leading up to the actual decision. And so I just have them down. I kind of wish they would figure out something, like, even if it was LeBron, like, filling in an injury void, like, someone gets hurt, and, like, all of a sudden, LeBron is available. Let's just do that right before the season starts. I also have the Pistons down, if only because I lament the fact that they don't seem anywhere near this chase, and they felt like the type of team that should have Been where they have the young superstar and Cade, they have this young context. Clearly they're good without LeBron, but he would be the old guy, like, just adding what he does, putting a little spice onto the dish, and all of a sudden they hit another level. But just like one of the most disappointing off seasons thus far. Maybe they have something in their back pocket that they've been working on. I saw like, a Kevin Durant to Detroit rumor, who knows? But, like, that's the exact type of team that you'd want. The narrative potential is there where it's like, oh, I beat them in the Eastern Conference finals a couple years ago. Like, let's just let me join them now in order to help get them over the top.
- [72:53]
Rob Mahoney
You know, I don't hate it, honestly. I. I think LeBron clearly could help with a lot of playmaking, a lot of balancing out. All the pressure that's on Cade would bring a ton to the Pistons. I. I don't know that it makes sense again, relative to some of these other alternatives, but it would be great because LeBron, going most places would be great.
- [73:14]
Justin Varior
Do you guys have any other ones?
- [73:15]
Rob Mahoney
I have one other one. I mean, if we're just going to acknowledge that, like, LeBron isn't going to sign with the Knicks because they won the title, then why not join the team that couldn't beat the Knicks because they were so clearly missing, like, end of game composure organization to their offense in critical moments? I would say Tobias Harris is never going to get in the way of any team signing LeBron James, but I think the spurs are a team that we have to at least kind of throw out here as one that he could really and legitimately help in so many different ways. And also has a lot of the kind of tent poles to take the pressure off of him.
- [73:53]
J. Kyle Mann
Yeah, you could. You wouldn't have to. He could really pick his spots on that team.
- [73:58]
Justin Varior
I don't.
- [73:58]
J. Kyle Mann
Yeah, the roster doesn't really. I mean, the Pacers were a fun one, too. I mean, that idea, Halle and LeBron together would be a pretty fun. You're talking about. That'd be another guy, another entry on that list of guys I was talking about about him, how he interfaces with certain types of superstars. I mean, that would. That would be a pretty fun one.
- [74:17]
Rob Mahoney
I mean, balance out the workload on the group project, you know, like, see how it works this time.
- [74:21]
J. Kyle Mann
I was gonna ask about the. The Knicks. How many. Like, the cea. The caa clutch thing is pretty, like, stinky on that team in particular. Right. How many clutch guys are on.
- [74:33]
Rob Mahoney
Are.
- [74:33]
J. Kyle Mann
Are on the Knicks at this point?
- [74:37]
Justin Varior
I don't know.
- [74:38]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [74:38]
Justin Varior
Off the top of my head, I think OG maybe. I think og.
- [74:43]
Rob Mahoney
Either way, let me. Let me fact check real quick.
- [74:50]
J. Kyle Mann
It's not gonna happen. So I was just like, what? That we don't even have to.
- [74:55]
Rob Mahoney
Okay. I think I have an answer.
- [74:57]
J. Kyle Mann
Hornets would be fun.
- [74:59]
Sponsor/Ad Reader
Kai.
- [74:59]
Rob Mahoney
I believe the answer is zero clutch clients on the roster.
- [75:03]
J. Kyle Mann
There we go. I don't. I don't know that the CAA stronghold is ready to invite Rich Paul in. I don't know. I'm just speculating. Who knows?
- [75:11]
Rob Mahoney
Well, it's almost Odyssey season, you know, if not a Trojan horse.
- [75:14]
J. Kyle Mann
There we go.
- [75:15]
Sponsor/Ad Reader
Yeah.
- [75:17]
Justin Varior
All right. Why don't we take a quick break, come back, talk about some remaining free agents and where they might go.
- [75:23]
Sponsor/Ad Reader
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- [76:26]
Justin Varior
All right, before we hopped on this podcast, unfortunately one of my guys I was going to talk about as we kind of match made like some of these remaining free agents with some of the teams still left with cap space in order to make some moves was Rui Hachimura. Was one of my guys. Seemed like one of the biggest dominoes left on the board in part because it seemed like he was in concert with LeBron where it's like, oh, if LeBron goes elsewhere, maybe the warriors who have the mid level open, maybe they'll chase after Rui. There's just like a mid level spot with so few teams, maybe they would use it on him. The Clippers were one of the teams on my list. For that reason, they ended up signing him. Him Pretty nice deal, I would say. Overall, Rob good player showed over the past two years he could play off of stars just like the shot is there and catch and shoot situations. Big athlete doesn't rebound a ton. Not like an impact defender, but just a good solid player. And it seems like the Clippers, I mean, they could use as many of those as they can get their hands.
- [77:17]
Rob Mahoney
Oh yeah. At this point, I like the price, I like the fit. Zero problem with him becoming a Clipper. It's not the kind of signing that like opens up your imagination as far as who the Clippers are going to be. But the Clippers are going to be be pretty good. I think they're like pretty comfortably in the glut of Western Conference teams that are going to be vying for the play in. And a move like this to me is a good reminder of the fact that they don't own their first round pick this year. Like it's invoked in a complicated swap that I think will probably end up going to the Thunder but could end up somewhere else. So it's like they might as well be good, they might as well be competent. They might as well bring in Rui to kind of replace some of what they were getting from John Collins or Nico Batum and then some like having a spacer who can also guard. Like why, why would you pass up a player like that?
- [78:03]
J. Kyle Mann
I'm pretty amused just by that trio of players. Tobias and John Collins and then Rui. It's just like those guys walk into like auditions in Hollywood and I feel like they look around and see each other in the same, in the same waiting rooms over and over. I just, it's an interesting like big four who can kind of shoot it created a little bit. Not going to be a heavy decision maker.
- [78:23]
Rob Mahoney
I'm just imagining one of them is Dylan McDermott and one of them is. Wait, Dermot Mulroney. Is that the guy? You know, they are just in the same rooms constantly.
- [78:33]
Justin Varior
Yeah, well, with Rui off the board, there really isn't much there outside of a couple restricted free agents. We still don't know about Jalen Duran, obviously Peyton Watson, who I mentioned earlier. I do want to talk about Watson before we get out of here. But Rob, which free agents still on the board is catching your eye?
- [78:51]
Rob Mahoney
I think catching our eye is strong given who is left here. Because really it is. There is the LeBron and like unresolved business of James Harden or Just to
- [79:01]
Justin Varior
green or clarify for the audience, Rob wanted to do this segment.
- [79:04]
Rob Mahoney
I did. No, I wanted to do this segment because, like I want to dig around in the bargain bid. I'm not, I'm just gonna say pretend that these guys are going to fix any team. But can they give you 15 good minutes? I think they can.
- [79:18]
J. Kyle Mann
This is like when you go to like Mr. Gaddy's and you, you were there for like an hour or maybe, I don't know, 30 minutes, and you, you got a few tickets and you're like, I want to spend them and you start looking through the case and you're like, oh man, do I want the army man with a parachute or do I want the pencil topper? Yeah, just like into like a few Tootsie Rolls, like a handful. Maybe that's what the bottom of this list looks like. I'm like, who can help? Oh God, it's rough.
- [79:43]
Rob Mahoney
Well, well, let me pitch you on. Not the army man with the parachute, not the Tootsie Rolls, but like the little monster finger puppet with the wiggly arms that you put on.
- [79:52]
J. Kyle Mann
Oh, my son loves that shit. Man, that's. Don't hate on that. Endless hours.
- [79:56]
Rob Mahoney
I'm not hating, not hating a bit on that. Not hating a bit on what I'm about to pitch you, which is why are the Lakers not blowing up Gary Payton II's phone right now? If you're a team with only minimums to spend and in desperate need of defense, like, would that not be your first call as far as who they can afford, who could actually help them? Who has like again, the, the ability to guard a wide range of perimeter opponents, specifically guards. I think he kind of represents where the Lakers are in their market right now. And I think he actually could help.
- [80:27]
Justin Varior
Rob, we've been here before. Harry Payton II can only play for the Golden State Warriors. He tried playing elsewhere before we got 20 to 30 Woj articles about his failed physical. It's true. He ended up back there for like, what was it like a bushel of. I think it was like five second
- [80:45]
J. Kyle Mann
round picks and won a title immediately. Right?
- [80:48]
Justin Varior
Yeah. He can only play for the warriors and that's it.
- [80:52]
Rob Mahoney
See, I had the same exercise when I was trying to think about like, is there a good landing spot for Nicholas Batum? Until I remembered that Nicholas Batum just makes quality of life signings and has signed five consecutive contracts with the Clippers even while getting traded in between there somewhere. So maybe you're right. Maybe he is just going to be a Warrior.
- [81:08]
J. Kyle Mann
He Likes his grocery store. He likes his, you know, I, I, I, you know, he's, he's a creature comfort kind of a person. It's a GP2, the, the rubber glove. I don't, yeah, he could maybe could see him going down there. I could pivot off of that. I had a similar kind of thought process about Matisse Thibel, another guy that I'm sure Justin has strong thoughts on. If I'm the Lakers and I'm looking, I, I don't know what kind of market he's going to have because he's had health issues. He obviously, basketball wise, had little stints where it seemed like he's viable as a spacer. He seems like a distressed asset. If I'm, and, and I'm the Lakers, I'm probably playing the distressed asset game. Now I'm looking at somebody who's disruptive, maybe kick those tires. I think if you can't get GP2, Dibel seems like, well, what's the dollar amount for him? I guess he's not going to take the minimum, is he?
- [81:58]
Rob Mahoney
He might.
- [81:59]
Justin Varior
It's so complicated at this point because in between all of his missed games the past two year, which is a considerable loop list, it's like most of them, he's played the best basketball of his career. Like, the shooting has been legit and now it is a small sample, but it's like not that small of a sample. He looks very comfortable shooting the ball and it feels like if that was like the one sticking point, that he was such a destructive force defensively, just like, what can you give you offensively? Like, I think he could hang there and he's obviously an intuitive player. Honestly, like one of my favorite players I've ever had to ask a question to because he's like, like honestly one of the most thoughtful, articulate people about basketball I've literally ever met. I don't know if that's an asset to the Lakers, but he is a good guy. I just think like, how much is the price there? Because if it is a minimum, then certainly. But if you have to actually risk your few available dollars for him, you just constantly worry about the injuries because it was like a few things. I remember at one point last year, like he had an injury and then it changed on the injury report because it was something else. It's just these things have just been mounting for a few years now.
- [83:03]
Rob Mahoney
That's where I could see one like, like a, a flyer take the minimum for one year. And guys are loath to do this. We should say players, if you depress your market, if you take a lower exception, if you take a minimum, they're so terrified for good reason that they're going to get locked into that price range as far as how teams consider them. But if you're someone like Matisse Thible, who's battled all of those injuries, who hasn't really been able to answer the questions of who you can be in the playoffs, go to one of the most high profile situations available alongside so much offensive firepower and show what you can be like. If he went on a run with the Lakers where he was a genuine plus in whatever series or however many series they ended up playing in, I think that's actually the kind of move that could explode his market a little bit.
- [83:49]
Justin Varior
Just never wearing socks to that guy. It's like 40 degrees. He's just wearing like burks, no socks on. I'm like, don't do that.
- [83:56]
Rob Mahoney
That's how you get injured. That's how you get like frostbite, frankly. Don't, please.
- [84:00]
J. Kyle Mann
No, I was like, in games he's not wearing socks.
- [84:02]
Rob Mahoney
It's like the olynic or. He's more low. He's more like no show. Low cut.
- [84:08]
J. Kyle Mann
I was no show for a long time.
- [84:10]
Rob Mahoney
That's.
- [84:11]
J. Kyle Mann
I like some no show.
- [84:12]
Rob Mahoney
That's. That's twisted on a basketball court.
- [84:15]
J. Kyle Mann
Oh, yeah, yeah. It bothered my head coach. He came over to me during. I have a vivid memory of this. He goes, you wear socks? I was like, yeah. Why do you care? It looks cool.
- [84:26]
Rob Mahoney
It does not look cool.
- [84:27]
J. Kyle Mann
No, it did in the early 2000s. It looked cool. Then mid range socks came.
- [84:32]
Rob Mahoney
We know you want to show off your ankles, but like, it's. It's really not that deep.
- [84:36]
Pharmaceutical Ad Reader
Yeah.
- [84:36]
Justin Varior
And they got these kids wearing tights just all the way up to their caboose.
- [84:40]
Sponsor/Ad Reader
Yeah,
- [84:43]
J. Kyle Mann
I experimented with those. It gets really warm. It gets really warm because calf soreness is a real thing, man. So.
- [84:49]
Sponsor/Ad Reader
Sure.
- [84:49]
J. Kyle Mann
Compression. Compression socks. Anyway, is there any other names we want to hit?
- [84:54]
Justin Varior
Well, should we mention Peyton Watson here? He's a restricted free agent. Definitely have like a. Probably a higher class than some of the other guys were considering, but seems like the big domino on the board. There was a story recently at that in the Athletic where it was like they're at an impasse, which tends to happen when other teams don't want to sign the guy to an offer sheet because they know that the current team is just going to match it. You're seeing a lot of that with Japan. Jalen Duran. And so I'm skeptical that the Nuggets, if they're not going to follow this LeBron dream scenario, like, would actually let him go. Because as long as they're willing to pay the price of not only his contract, but also the luxury tax implications and the apron complications, clearly they need him. They need exactly what he brings, which is like, youthful juice. Like the type of offense that they're not getting for some of their aging players.
- [85:39]
Rob Mahoney
Okay, we can't be saying youthful juice on this pod. That's not a thing we can say.
- [85:44]
J. Kyle Mann
Also, are we saying impasse?
- [85:46]
Justin Varior
That's no worse.
- [85:47]
J. Kyle Mann
I was gonna let. I'm throwing the flag impasse.
- [85:52]
Justin Varior
I'm putting a little accident on this stuff because I'm trying to class this up, all right? Everyone else is going out there with the World cup and being all Euro style.
- [86:02]
J. Kyle Mann
I could add a little boards up there. I just don't. I can't.
- [86:06]
Rob Mahoney
You're really. You're really in your caboose on this one.
- [86:08]
J. Kyle Mann
I cannot abide. I cannot.
- [86:10]
Justin Varior
They're at an impasse. All right. I'm just like. For teams that need exactly what Watson brought to the Nuggets last year, like, I get, like, that it took him a while to get there. I get that the injuries stalled them last year. Like Detroit, for instance. We talked about them before. Like, why. Why do you not want Peyton Watson, like, you have the assets to go do something. Fucking do something.
- [86:34]
Rob Mahoney
Seriously. Like, I think some teams can get in their own heads with guys like Watson, where he. He probably is not best slotted as a. As a four full time. Even though offensively it's tempting to use him, use him that way at points because, like, he just doesn't guard bigs that well. He's definitely the kind of forward who guards wings much more effectively. And so if you're the Pistons, you're thinking, okay, we really need somebody who can fill this, like, specific Tobias Harris kind of void. If we're not going to keep Tobias Harris. That's how you talk yourself into getting John Collins, who's just like, not as good of a player as Peyton Watson and frankly didn't require the kind of sign and trade hall that Peyton Watson might. But I agree with you. I think he could help a lot of teams. I think that kind of athleticism, that kind of defense, like who he is as a shot blockers, really valuable, really important. I don't know why the market is this way other than the Nuggets need to get something significant in return for him. If they do trade him or they need to keep him around because he's so useful and so important to what they do.
- [87:33]
J. Kyle Mann
Well is. I mean, he is on a job market. Another guy who's similar, I guess, is Kuminga. I mean, that's the other player I had written down here. In terms of what could happen with him. I don't keep gravitating back to the Lakers. That's another team that I. The Lakers are the. I mean, Kaminga with the Pistons, I don't know if they have the money to go get him, but another two dudes kind of in a similar lane, similar age.
- [87:57]
Justin Varior
Sure. With the Pistons, I just feel like they're right at the precipice of being something significant and you should be taking this opportunity to level up. And Watson fits exactly what they're looking for in that he's a defensive first player but brings this sort of offensive pop, not juice, in order to, like, take what they have and just add a new dimension to it. I think, like, him plus a SAR with the length there, like, would be crazy. And then they have the defensive context to support them. You get a little like. Like the matchups and the lineups become a little bit more complicated because they have so much size that doesn't shoot. But, like, you could size down when you need to. You can size up when you need to. Like, there would be a lot there. Kaminga is a little bit different where he feels like more of a lottery pole to me still. Like, you want to find out what is still buried beneath there, and if you have the available minutes to do that, I get it. But that's typically a team with no stakes. Like. Like. Kaminga seems more like a Bucks player to me that wouldn't lose anything by playing through him and, like, allowing him to explore the studio space versus a team like Detroit, who has a lot riding on next season.
- [89:02]
Rob Mahoney
I just don't know how much of a lottery pull it even is. It's like a. A school raffle where you can, you know, get. Get a dinner with a local celebrity. Like, I. I just really don't want even what the good version of Jonathan Kaminga is. If I am a team that's playing for something, it's so.
- [89:17]
J. Kyle Mann
It's so insulting, too. Justin, you're basically saying he's. I don't know, you're just basically saying that. You guys are saying different versions of the same thing here. It's just like, I'd rather send him to a team that has no consequences and give him atrophy reps that are just rough and it doesn't add to anything. And it's like it's could Kuminga, Is it possible, I guess if you were going to play the devil's advocate thing here and just say like, is it possible that he is just more equipped to be a part of a pick and roll heavy team where he's you know, catching and quickly discussing just, you know, he gets satisfied in those little second side catches he gets or whatever it is handoffs as opposed to a high read intensive kind of system that he failed in with the Warriors. It's like I could see, I could see him working with the Pistons. I guess my question about Watson with the Pistons is do you think they keep leaning towards players when you were talking about Watson guarding wings more so he's more of a three, four. They keep going after these four three type dudes like Collins and Tobias and things like that. It's like, like are they trying to just protect that ruggedness that they have and if they go with a more sinewy, rangy guy like a Watson, is it just kind of leaning away from their identity more? Is that why they keep doing this? I don't know. Because Collins could play some five also? I don't know.
- [90:32]
Justin Varior
Yeah, I like the mix and match potential. I, I think Watson fits their style by adding something a little bit different. Whereas like I was saying, like Kaminga I think just gives them something completely different. And I don't know how much you need that, especially because you have the Isaiah Joe types in order to like be the on ball ball like second unit sort of guy. Do you really need to funnel possessions, critical possessions through a guy like that? Like unfortunately I just think this is where the Kaminga market is. Like I don't know who's signing him to like a Ruyu Hachimura style mid level deal. Because those teams by and large like probably already have their young guys they're trying to develop. Yeah, I think he's probably like minimum make good on a good team or maybe just slightly above that on a team that, that isn't really competing for anything next year.
- [91:17]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, I, I think the minimum make good market for a potential playoff team is one that I'm eyeing and trying to figure out like okay, what is the situation that could even give him a decent chance of success. He just doesn't really have a track record of being like a good winning player in almost any circumstances. Like can be productive, can score like we've gone, we've, we've Gone through all this Kaminga stuff so much, but like, yeah, I hear you, Kyle, about. Is it systemic, right? Like, is it, is it a matter of put him in something that's a little more straightforward, putting him in more of a pick and roll style system, which many players have gone through Golden State and just like not been able to pick up or find the cadence or lock into that offense. Like, it's not a unique problem for Jonathan Kaminga. It's a very particular skill set that I don't think he necessarily has. Would he be better off somewhere that is just like a little bit more straightforward? That suits kind of the athleticism he can lean into and the driving part of his game that is easily like the most potent part of it. But how do you find that without putting him off the ball so often that who he is as a shooter becomes a bit of an issue? Or who he is as like a stagnant off ball player becomes a little bit of an issue? It's like there's a line we're trying to walk there that I don't know what the good situation is. And maybe it's a team that just ended up giving away a bunch of stuff via trade over the summer and then looks at their bench and says, man, we could really use like one more creator to help spell some of these guys. Like the, you know, the Hornets look up a couple months from now and they're just like, man, Jonathan Kaminga really makes sense for what we need right now. I could see something like that happening.
- [92:45]
Justin Varior
Yeah, I'm just looking at the options. The Clippers level project, you know, but they just gave away their mid level to Rui, so it'd probably have to be a minimum sort of contract. Just isn't a lot of fits there.
- [92:59]
J. Kyle Mann
I think Luca makes sense for him. I just think what you're talking about is like Gary, we just said to people who were kind of the inverse, it's like Gary Payton is a point guard who can't shoot, but he has a very good basketball mind. And you put him with the warriors and he has no problem mixing into what they do because he's so athletic and he can guard. But you put Kaminga, who's more of a, you know, he probably is better in a lower movement offense that's more with his physicality. So it's just interesting how these guys fit and where they don't.
- [93:26]
Rob Mahoney
It's true. And a lot of it is like, do you know who you are? And I don't know that Jonathan, that's it right there?
- [93:33]
J. Kyle Mann
Yeah. Do you know, like, I'm as good as Luca?
- [93:37]
Rob Mahoney
For the record, Justin, I do not. I go through life on a daily basis just grasping at straws. But, you know, some days you get to come in here and talk about youthful juice, and everything feels okay.
- [93:47]
J. Kyle Mann
I know who you are, Rob. Look at the board. That's who you are. I know.
- [93:51]
Rob Mahoney
Thank you for laying it all out. I've been trying to figure out what my whole deal is, but I should have known you'd be locked in.
- [93:55]
J. Kyle Mann
I'll send it over.
- [93:56]
Justin Varior
Did we figure out where. Where Rob is going?
- [93:59]
J. Kyle Mann
Based off of today's conversation, he's following the oil money. As we figured out earlier, he's really attached to it.
- [94:07]
Justin Varior
What's the. What's the appeal of that? If you were to write down your whiteboard Rob, and you're gonna say, like, Rob's gonna go back to Dallas, here are the things that he's looking for. Is it like, cool hats? Tex Mex?
- [94:19]
Rob Mahoney
Text is number one. Let's be real about it.
- [94:21]
Justin Varior
Okay.
- [94:23]
Rob Mahoney
Wide open spaces. You know, I love. I love a sprawl, personally, who doesn't know what I. The chicks are very important.
- [94:30]
J. Kyle Mann
Slaps.
- [94:31]
Rob Mahoney
I'm like, ab. Absolutely cowboy. Take me away. Come on. Like, we're. We're just absolutely peeking.
- [94:37]
J. Kyle Mann
There's your trouble. Come on.
- [94:40]
Rob Mahoney
This is what I'm saying.
- [94:41]
J. Kyle Mann
Seminal stuff.
- [94:42]
Rob Mahoney
So I guess the chicks have backdoored their way somehow into being on the Dallas list. I don't know how that happened, but otherwise, like food and space and convenience and cost of living, I think it's a pretty good package. Maybe not for a LeBron James level person. Although, look, that money could stretch very far. If he wants to live in Dallas for a significant good portion of the year, I would love it. Personally, I would. I would love to go back at some point.
- [95:05]
Justin Varior
Just to clarify, the chicks. Not chicks.
- [95:09]
Rob Mahoney
No, the chicks. Capital T, capital C. The chicks. Because changes had to be made just
- [95:14]
Justin Varior
in case your wife was listening to an hour 30 into this podcast and was like, whoa, Rob. Just going back for the chicks.
- [95:21]
Rob Mahoney
Going back to Dallas for the chicks. As. As one does.
- [95:24]
Justin Varior
Okay. All right, why don't we wrap up there? Thank you to Jeff Sheeran for filling on production. Thank you to Isaiah Blakely. We'll be back, I believe, on Thursday. We will talk to you then.
- [95:50]
Rob Mahoney
Hey, it's Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile.
- [95:52]
Justin Varior
Now, I was looking for fun ways to tell you that Mint's offer of
- [95:56]
Rob Mahoney
unlimited Premium Wireless for $15 a month is back. So I thought it would be fun
- [96:01]
J. Kyle Mann
if we made $15 bills, but it
- [96:04]
Justin Varior
turns out that's very illegal.
- [96:07]
J. Kyle Mann
So there goes my big idea for the commercial.
- [96:09]
Rob Mahoney
Give it a try@mintmobile.com switch upfront payment
- [96:12]
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