Rate That Crash Out! | Real Ones

Summary

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The Ringer NBA Show: "Rate That Crash Out!" | Real Ones

Date: March 3, 2026
Hosts: Logan Murdock, Raja Bell, Howard Beck

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Main Theme

This episode centers on “crash outs” – high-intensity NBA moments when players lose composure or cross physical/behavioral boundaries. The Real Ones crew kicks off with a deep dive into Lou Dort’s controversial flagrant 2 foul and ejection after a hip check on Nikola Jokic, and branches into a lively breakdown of what differentiates physical, reckless, and dirty play. They examine the growing “villain” energy around the Oklahoma City Thunder, the complicated role of officiating with stars like Jokic, and cap things off with a spirited “Rate That Crash Out” game reviewing recent NBA meltdowns.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Lou Dort’s Hip Check on Nikola Jokic: Dirty or Just Physical?

(01:05–16:26)

• Incident Overview: Lou Dort delivered a hip check to Jokic leading to a flagrant 2 and ejection. The altercation triggered a wider discussion on playing style and NBA officiating.

  “I did think what he did to Jokic in the middle of the open court … I thought that was dirty.”
  — Raja Bell (06:32)

• Raja Bell breaks down the categories:

  • Physical – Hard, fair defense not seeking to injure (bumps, hard fouls).
  • Reckless – Careless action with injury potential, especially when a player is airborne.
  • Dirty – Intentional acts to injure (e.g., undercutting a shooter, intentional tripping).

  “Dirty plays for me are when you are really trying to hurt somebody … things that have intent where you’re trying to hurt become dirty.”
  — Raja Bell (05:20)

• On Dort’s History:
  Bell points out Lou Dort’s highlight reels contain examples of all three categories but singles out the Jokic play as “dirty,” yet not in itself worthy of ejection unless the broader fallout (altercation) is considered.

• Howard Beck explains officiating standards:

  • A flagrant 2 requires the action be “unnecessary and excessive” with potential for injury.
  • Context and aftermath (the scuffle/brouhaha) influenced officials’ decision to eject Dort.

  “If you do things that nearly set off a fight … you’re trying to prevent even worse things from happening if the guy stays in.”
  — Howard Beck (10:50)

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2. The ‘Villain Era’ of the Oklahoma City Thunder

(16:26–24:10)

• Thunder’s Rise & Reputation:
  The Thunder, now NBA champs, are earning a backlash—both for physical/“dirty” play and accusations of flopping, especially around Shai Gilgeous-Alexander.

  “It feels like OKC is coming into another level of its villain era, or at least starting a very mainstream villain era. Where are they now in the Zeitgeist?”
  — Logan Murdock (18:35)

• Howard’s take:
  It’s unusual for a single-title team to become league villains so quickly. Combination of success, perceived gamesmanship (flops/foul-baiting), and Sam Presti’s “evil genius” reputation all feed into the narrative.

• On Rivalries:

  “It’s a really premature, like, rise to villain. … But you know what? I’m for it. We need rivalries, we need hostility, we need fans rooting for or against.”
  — Howard Beck (22:57)

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3. Officiating and Star Player Frustrations

(24:13–31:16)

• Jokic’s “Punishing” Style:
  The crew debates the challenge of officiating big men like Jokic and Shaq, who both dish out and receive considerable contact, often without getting calls.

  “He [Jokic] plays a punishing style of ball … some of it he brings on himself by style of play. … Historically, you can look at big men and the treatment they get from refs and wonder if they are letting a lot go because of their size.”
  — Raja Bell (25:25)

• Draymond’s ‘Hack-a-Jordan’ and What’s Reckless:
  They recall Draymond Green’s viral move of jumping on DeAndre Jordan during a hack—a classic example of reckless, not dirty, play.

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4. Western Conference Power Rankings After a Wild Weekend

(31:16–35:14)

• Thunder Lead, But Competition Looms:
  Thunder, Spurs, Wolves, and Nuggets are seen as the true contenders. The hosts note Denver’s vulnerability without Aaron Gordon and OKC’s upward momentum but argue San Antonio is a real threat.

  “I do think [OKC is] a slight level above three or four other teams, … Thunder, Spurs, Wolves, and Nuggets. … If you told me any of those four … were in the Western Conference finals, I’d believe you.”
  — Howard Beck (33:48)

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5. Rate That Crash Out! (Crash Out Game)

(38:14–48:06)

a. Steph Curry’s Non-reaction to Draymond’s Sideline Meltdown (38:14–44:07):

• Curry & Draymond = ‘Old Married Couple’ Energy:
  The crew laughs about how normalized Draymond’s animated outbursts have become, as reflected in Steph’s poker face.

  “Steph’s just like, yeah, that’s Draymond … We’ve been together for 50 years. This is what he does.”
  — Howard Beck (39:40)

• Crash Out Ratings:

  • Raja, Howard, and Logan agree: for Draymond, this outburst is mild.
    • Raja: “This is relatively benign, bro. We’re not tripping off this.” (43:13)
    • Scores: ~4–6/10; high meme-ability, standard for Draymond.

b. Jokic-Lou Dort Ejection:

• Raja: 8/10 for Jokic’s level of anger, “He looked irate. I’m gonna give him an 8.” (44:34)
• Howard: 8–9/10 on crash out, “His eyes crashed out... that was the scariest fucking look.” (45:20, 46:17)
• Logan: 6/10—less replay value than some classic bench-clearing brawls.

“In real time, I thought this was going to get really ugly. … [Jokic’s] eyes get a 12.”
— Howard Beck (45:20, 46:17)

c. Bench-Clearing Charlotte Brawl (referenced):

• Logan: “…crash out of the year. That was a generational crash out.” (48:00)

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6. Mailbag: Spurs, MVP Narratives, and Coach of the Year

(48:48–58:37)

• Mailbag from Jake (Howard William Edmiston IV):
  Why doesn’t Wemby get more MVP consideration for exceeding expectations, like Jalen Brown on the Celtics?

• Howard’s MVP Explanation:
  Wemby’s case is strong but different: his team was already loaded with young talent, and MVP voting is a tangled mix of stats, team record, narrative, and games played. If the Spurs finish first in the West, Wemby could very well win.

  “It’s a bunch of things that are all kind of baked in. … I think Wemby ultimately is going to finish top five for sure, and he’s got a chance to be top three. … If the Spurs finish first in the West, there’s a good chance that Wemby could actually win MVP.”
  — Howard Beck (54:28, 56:56)

• Coach of the Year:
  Mitch Johnson is a real contender given the Spurs’ leap.

• Fun asides:
  Howard on growing up named Howard, attempts to go by “Howie,” and shoutouts to friends and listeners.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Thunder’s villain emergence:
  “It’s just a big corn off. … The whole league right now.”
  — Logan Murdoch (23:26)

• On officiating star bigs:
  “When you play that type of style, and you’re big, you’re gonna walk out of there with a lot of bumps, scrapes, bruises, and, you know, in some instances, probably have a good case for complaining that you didn’t get enough fouls called for you.”
  — Raja Bell (27:17)

• On crash out memes:
  “This is actually constructive for Draymond … This shows a maturity from Draymond and everyone else involved.”
  — Logan Murdoch (43:23)

• On Mailbag MVP narratives:
  “It might seem similar, but it’s just not the same narrative.”
  — Raja Bell (57:22)

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Important Timestamps

• 01:05–16:26: Lou Dort/Jokic incident and breakdown of dirty/reckless/physical play
• 16:26–24:10: The Thunder’s image and “villain era”
• 24:13–31:16: Officiating big men and star frustration
• 31:16–35:14: Western Conference race recalibration
• 38:14–48:06: “Rate That Crash Out!” game—Draymond, Jokic, and meme culture
• 48:48–58:37: Mailbag: Spurs’ overachievement, MVP dialogue, Coach of the Year, and “Howard” name talk

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Tone and Style

The episode is spirited, irreverent, and packed with insight—balancing technical basketball analysis with humor, relatable anecdotes, and honest debate. The hosts lean into NBA meme culture and bring in personal experiences, all while giving the listener meaningful perspective on what makes a “crash out” memorable and how narratives shape the way we view the league’s stars and teams.

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Transcript

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[Logan Murdoch]

What's poppin Real ones. Logan Murdoch here, Rajabel there, Howard Beck over there. Man, I'm really excited today because it's a mailbag day, but we're going to do a little something a little bit different where we we interweave the mailbag into our pod itself. The first thing we're going to talk about is crash outs and the second thing we're going to talk about is crash out. This is going to be the crash out episode and we saw crash outs of all crash outs. This is when Nicola Jokic got into a brouhaha with Lou Dort. Lou Dort gave him a little gave Jokic a little hip check, got a flagrant two for his troubles, started a a little kerfuffle in which you know J Will was in the middle of it, got a very memeable video.

[Howard Beck]

So let's watch this ensue up the floor. Oh yeah, Dort goes over out of his way and this is what gets the reaction from Jokic.

[Logan Murdoch]

It's right in the face of door. Jalen Williams comes in. All right, that's going to lead us into our first question from Robert Dean who asks this is a very funny question. Let's go right into the the topic as always. Hope everyone at real Ones is doing well these days. My question comes from being a Thunder fan hating competitively the warriors especially never forgiving Draymond karate kicking style, Stephen Adams and the balls. The non flagrant call was among the many key moments in that 3:1 turnaround. Draymond may have paid the karma tax in the finals they lost but I've always felt Draym has gotten a bit of a pass, even for his choking and stomping. Obviously, this rant has nothing to do with the question. Now that the Thunder are the reigning champs and suddenly Lou Dort is the villain. Hip checking is normal fighting position and fluid stance. A trip is inexcusable. What's the real story on Dort and what do you recommend for fans who watch closely to understand the differences between physical, reckless or a dirty player? Psych. Will anyone confront KD over the bars or this story? Or is this story being held for post? Rockets exit story dumps? All the best, Robert Dean from Astoria. There we go. So, Roger, I'll get to start off with you because, you know, you are our crash out expert. What are the differences between physical, reckless and a dirty player? And how does that apply to Lou Dort? And how does that apply to this big brouhaha that we had on Friday?

[Raja Bell]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a good question. And as I drove around Texas with my sons, it was the conversation in the car, all the memes and whatnot of Lou Dort and the accumulation of plays that people, that people are using to highlight him as a dirty player. And I thought that was interesting, Logan, because as the boys showed me that I could point to all three categories in that mashup of plays by Lou Dort. Their physical ones, they're. They're reckless ones. And then, you know, I thought the one on Jokic was dirty. I did not think, if you remember, the one that he had on John Morant where he got caught chasing a play down and they dropped the ball back to John Morant and he just kind of turned around and John Morant, like, somersaulted over him, that to me, wasn't dirty. I said that at the time. It fell somewhere between reckless and physical. Like, probably should have gotten out of the way but was kind of stuck where you were. I never get the benefit of the doubt in this conversation because of what happened with Kobe. Physical is, you know, my job is to bump you, push you off of your spot, take a hard foul on you from time to time that isn't putting you in, in jeopardy of being injured. Those happen all the time that I don't see as dirty. Like, if you're going to the bucket and I run over there and grab you and stop you from taking off, you know, from the ground. Like, not dirty. I didn't, I didn't try to injure you. That's a physical foul. Like, if, if the two of Us are going up and I'm going after the ball and we collide and. And you wind up on your back. And I had opportunity to own that space as well. Physical, not dirty or reckless. The reckless plays I think are ones where guys are already in the air and someone is coming out of nowhere to try to slide in last minute for a charge or coming from behind them as they're going up to dunk a basketball and clipping their legs or falling. Like those are reckless to dirty type of plays. Dirty plays for me are when you are really trying to hurt somebody. Like you are ankle. Someone's jumping in the air to shoot a jump shot and you are intentionally putting your foot underneath, you know, there's trying to roll their ankle. Things that, things that have intent where you're trying to hurt become dirty. For me, I know it's a nuanced conversation. Like people. People label me as a dirty player. I didn't have a lot of dirty plays as a player. Now I had a reckless play with Kobe, you know, where I threw him to the ground. But like, I wasn't a guy that was going to go out there and try to stick my foot under you or try to trip you or try to catch you as you were in the air and cut your legs out from under you. Things that you were doing to try to hurt someone fall into dirty. For me, you know, reckless smaller category, but I could find reckless plays and then physical defense. I think, you know, a lot of what happens in the NBA falls into physical, you know, defense. Fans don't like their favorite player getting hit and having to get up. But, you know, that's someone else's job is to actually stop that guy and prevent him from having the success that he's used to having. So I don't know if I explained that well, but I did think what he did to Jokic in the middle of the open court, Jokic running the other way, sticking that knee or whatever he did. I thought that was dirty.

[Logan Murdoch]

Did it warrant an ejection though? Did it warrant.

[Raja Bell]

I did not think it warranted, no. No, neither did I. Yeah.

[Logan Murdoch]

And that, that, that's my only problem with, with the whole skirmish was. Right. Because this was definitely a rivalry play and it play that happens in the midst of physicality. And you know, we're going to go so many different ways on this, but Lou Dort is a very important player to the Thunder and in a game like that, some players like that usually get the benefit of the doubt. So I was really surprised by that, and it was a hip, it was a hip check is what it was. And what resulted after that maybe influenced what happened to Lou Dort. But what did you think when you saw that there was an ejection Raja? Where does that show where the league is right now?

[Raja Bell]

Yeah, look, if you took into totality the events that kind of transpired afterward, and it wasn't purely just about the physical act of the hip check, and you're saying, hey, well, it caused the commotion and guys were pushing and shoving and we're going to get him out of here. Sometimes calls like that have to be made in the moment to protect the rest of the game. And what could, what could happen if you leave that out there and then guys wind up in a bigger fight? If that was taken into account, I guess I don't hate it as much, but if it was purely based on, hey, he hip checked Jokic in the open court, that's a flagrant too. He's out of here. Yeah, I didn't love that. I think, you know, that's ridiculous. We talk about players, especially offensive players all the time, having a level of gamesmanship, you know, as it relates to drawing fouls, you know, scorers especially, how they can bait people into fouls, how, how they can, you know, they learn to use their body and create the contact and so on and so forth. As a defensive player, you know, a lot of what we're asked to do is irritate people and get them off of their spot mentally, get them off of their spot emotionally, try to be physical enough. And while I said that play fell into the dirty category, for me, um, I don't, I don't think it was ejectable. And I think if you're, if you're rejecting guys for doing that, I, I, I don't, I think it sets a poor precedent. I mean, that's, I just didn't think it was that egregious a foul, quite frankly.

[Howard Beck]

So the, the context of that play is that it was coming late in the game, Right. And they'd already been going at it. There had been like more minor things between them. Right. So I think there was like a little bit of a slow buildup, um, in real time, like I thought, wow, bad play by, by Lou Dort. I'm always a little cautious as, as a non former player like Raj, I defer to you on these things about what's dirty, what crosses the line versus what's just over aggressive or a little over the line. So I, I try to keep in Reserve the word dirty, but it was. That was bad. And on replay, it looked even worse. And it was very intentional and very clear. There's no reason he stepped backwards and could see Jokic coming behind him. There was no reason to do that otherwise. Agree. But in real time, I thought, wow, ejection seems like a lot. But James Williams, the crew chief, did a pool report interview afterward, and the explanation made sense to me. So here's what James Williams said. Lou Dort was assessed a flagrant foul penalty two because we deemed his contact on Jokic to be unnecessary and excessive. Right. Those are the two qualifiers.

[Logan Murdoch]

Right.

[Howard Beck]

Unnecessary is a flagrant one. Unnecessary and excessive is a flagrant two. And a flagrant two is automatic ejection. Right. Unnecessary and excessive, as James Williams continued, with a high potential for injury. I think that's accurate. And also because the contact led to an altercation that did not dissolve. So they're weighing in what happened after the incident itself. Right. It's not just that he backed into him, knocked him down and. And did something that could have caused injury. It's that the reaction that you got and you could say, well, Jokic didn't have to react that way. No, like, you provoked the provocation is what leads to the referees having to huddle and say, okay, does this warrant an ejection? Does it warrant a flagrant foul penalty, too, which is the automatic ejection? And so, yeah, they're taking into account all of it, including the fact that this nearly set off a fight. If you do things that nearly set off a fight, even in Raja Bell's time, there would have been potential for ejections because you're trying to prevent even worse things from happening if the guy stays in, and because it almost spilled over in the first place. So would this have been a flagrant, too, in your time, Raja? Like, I'm guessing probably not, but this has been the standard for quite a while now in today's NBA, so I don't have any problem.

[Logan Murdoch]

Howard, it might not have been a flagrant, too, if there wasn't a brouhaha. Right. Like, if it was just. Maybe they got toe to toe.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah.

[Logan Murdoch]

Or maybe they. James Williams.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah. That he cited. It means it was a factor. Right. So without the. The bruhaha. Yeah, maybe. Maybe it wouldn't have been. But. But.

[Logan Murdoch]

So maybe if Jay Will doesn't come in, teammate. Maybe there. Maybe there. Maybe there's something that is. It's a different outcome of Jay. And I'm not blaming Jay Will. I think that it was A good that he went to go defend his teammate as well. But sure, if that doesn't happen, then the crowd doesn't come around and it doesn't become like a huge thing. It's just them going toe to toe and maybe Jay Will is like, nah, Lou, Lou, Lou, like, chill. We got this.

[Raja Bell]

Well, we had, we had, I mean, just off the top of my mind, we had a very similar situation. We've referenced it a lot.

[Logan Murdoch]

Robert, what situation was that? Oh, okay.

[Raja Bell]

He hip checked the shit out of Steve. Steve may or may not have sold it. I go over to defend Steve. I don't, I don't think. Did Robert, Robert get ejected from that game.

[Logan Murdoch]

Right.

[Raja Bell]

And the bruja just to the point of. Would that have caused an ejection in your day? I don't think it would have. I don't hate it, though, because I agree with you, Howard. Like, I thought it was dirty. And if, in fact, you know, I wasn't, you know, I didn't know about the post, the postgame explanation of it. But if you are taking into account, you know, what, what happened directly thereafter, I'm okay with that. Like, I don't have, I don't have a problem with that. You know, just on its face, though, I don't, I don't love physicality by guys whose job it is to be physical and you pay them to be physical. You know, I don't necessarily, I'm always going to cringe at when you start messing with that, if that's fair. It was my job. I'm partial to it. You know, call me a homer, if you will. I can admit that that play was dirty, was in the open court, you try to get his knees, like, I'm okay with that. So I'm not defending that one necessarily. But just in general, those plays where a guy like Lou Dort, who's, who's tasked and paid to be the kind of physical backbone of his team, you know, if he's making physical plays that aren't jeopardizing someone's health, I, I, I always cringe when those are deemed flagrant, too, and people are kicked out of games, if that makes sense.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah, yeah, but this wasn't that, right?

[Raja Bell]

Like, we, no, this wasn't.

[Howard Beck]

Lou Dork gets to do Lou Dort Things 99% of the time and be the guy that he is. That's made him valuable. That made him an intrinsic part of a championship team. Right. So I think, to your point, Raja, like Lou Dork gets to be him.

[Raja Bell]

Well, here's the thing. No, I, I didn't have. I didn't have a hell of a problem with that.

[Logan Murdoch]

I mean, I, I don't, I don't know if you. I doubt you've seen this, Howard. Maybe Raja and Cliff have seen this, but there's a great Cedric the Entertainer standup special where he references the Malice in the palace, and he talks about how a lot of the guys punched people on camera and then got mad at the end of the day when, like, the league came down on them so hard when they, like, he referenced. I think it was Stephen Jackson. He referenced how he looked at the camera and bopped the fan. Right? I, that comes all the way back to Lou Dort. The fact that he did that, where it was just him and Jokic, it was very plain view of the dirt, of the dirty play. It wasn't. I did this in the midst of a Ref can't see this. This was in a crowd. No, he did a hip check for the whole world to see when no one was within 20ft of him. And that's why this was dirty. That's why this. We're getting all of these accusations that we're getting compilations that are coming out so everybody can get paid off of it on YouTube.

[Raja Bell]

I just watched it again. I had to watch it again, right? Like, I had to watch it again. I, I, I'm gonna say this again. I'm okay with the ejection. If you say to me, hey, what took place right after that, you incited it. It was borderline. You guys had built up to this point. We've got to control this game. Hey, Lou, you, you gotta get out of here. It wasn't the craziest thing ever. It looked crazy. Like, it's out in open court. Like, it looks.

[Logan Murdoch]

It's not even Dennis Rodman. And, like, come on in the finals, bro. And they just.

[Raja Bell]

Come on. Nikola Jokic is 611, 290 pounds, bro.

[Howard Beck]

Like, come on, we've seen harder fouls. Yeah, we've seen more egregious shit. But like, that one, it's egregious because. Not, not because of impact, but, but because of context, right? He stepped backwards, clearly trying to trip him up. And you know what happened.

[Raja Bell]

Yeah, yeah, I'm with you on all of that also.

[Logan Murdoch]

I don't know.

[Raja Bell]

I don't know that. I wouldn't say that's a jack. It warranted an ejection on its face without all the stuff that happened afterwards. And I agree with everything you're saying, Howard. I already said I think it's a borderline. It's a dirty play. But like, I didn't think it was ejection by. By itself in a vacuum for sure.

[Logan Murdoch]

Let's. Let's. Okay, Howard, let's get into me and your bag real quick and we'll have Raza chime in because he's had his bag for the last 10 minutes. Hold on one second. Let's get to this.

[Howard Beck]

Also. Also, you know, this is probably like this since we started all potting together a couple years ago. This is at least like the seventh time probably that the Robert Ori hip check on Nash has come up. And I've never once.

[Logan Murdoch]

That's only while you have been here

[Howard Beck]

to defend my boy Robert Ori, one of my favorite players that I ever covered.

[Logan Murdoch]

So.

[Howard Beck]

So we'll. We'll leave that for another day. He's a great dude.

[Raja Bell]

Oh, I like Rob. Yeah, I don't have a problem with Rob. Yeah, Rob's cool in the moment. I didn't. I didn't love him.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah, Howard, this is. This is the seventh time this season that he has brought this up incl. With just me and him.

[Raja Bell]

But the con.

[Logan Murdoch]

Was it not appropriate contention appropriately, which happened like three. Remember the last time, which happened like three weeks ago. Raju just got himself mad and brought it up for no reason. Said, I'm not going to get myself mad. Anyways, let's get back into being your back. Let's get into this to. To our back. So this is coming in the midst of years of an undercurrent for OKC Howard, where the Internet has gotten a hold of them flopping the. The. The. The foul baiting, if you will, from Shay Gilgas Alexander's or at least the accusations of foul baiting. Even Doris Burke threw a stray at Shay over the weekend in a game that Shay wasn't even playing trying to defend Anthony Edwards. It seems like the undercurrent that we have all felt is kind of coming to the surface. And this tends to happen when teams win, quite frankly. Right. When they win titles, more spotlight is put on to them and what they do. And you know, time has gone on. Have we. We've seen this. This also came the spru. Haha. Also came into a game where shake. This was hilarious show. Giggles Alexander gets. It was. It was a normal bump foul. And he throws the ball Shay does at Jokic and then yells at the ref like, what did I do? What did I do after he threw the ball in y. This is all coming in the midst of we. Bill is referenced. It's referenced this over the weekend with Zach. Tom Ziller is also referenced. It's one of our faves in his. In his newsletter. But it feels like OKC is kind of coming into another level of his villain era, or at least starting a very, very mainstream villain era. Where are they right now in the Zeitgeist? Howard Beck for their play, because they're playing very well on the court. They won this game in overtime, which was a huge win for them. They had a really good weekend. It seems like they're starting to find their stride again. Where are they right now, though, in the Zeitgeist in terms of how they behave on the floor? And is there a backlash coming, or is it already here?

[Howard Beck]

For me, the best part about. Of Bill's rant with Zach on Sunday night was killing them for their stupid commercials. Like, just their corny ass. Like, nobody. Nobody wants to see these commercials. Like, he didn't. He left out nothing.

[Logan Murdoch]

Hey, that's a building for Bill. This has been years in the making. Whenever you start bringing up shit that has nothing to do with what the current thing is, but you've been back mad at, that's when, you know, commercials

[Howard Beck]

that have already, like, been out of circulation for at least a year and we've forgotten about them, but they're, like, right back in there. It's like, I gotta get back to this one.

[Logan Murdoch]

But.

[Howard Beck]

But he was right. It's funny because normally to get villain status as a franchise in this league, you gotta, like, dominate an era. Like, the warriors were, like, the most lovable champion of all time after the first one. And then they were, like, you know, maybe a little less popular after, you know, Draymond's nut punch to LeBron and the ejection, the blow, I think it started the.

[Logan Murdoch]

I think it really started in earnest, though, before that first nut punt kick to LeBron. It started with the nut kick to Steven Adams. Just referencing our. Our friends.

[Howard Beck]

I mean, but that's Draymond, right? And that's Draymond alone. Right? But I think that the 73 win season, then you start to become a little less tolerable to a lot of people. But. But. But that's. But that's what I was leading to is, like, they were still a lovable champion up until the time they get kd. Now they become the evil empire. Now there's no suspense at all. Now they're too dominant for the league's own good or for any other team or their fan Base is good. And now they're winning back to back champions and they're smoking the Cavs. And the finals are. Are a blowout, and it's not even interesting. It's during the KD era that they become Villains, and not solely because of kd, but a collection of things, and especially because KD put them over the top, right? But that now there's like three championships in, and they're. They're the Villains, the thunder of 1:1. And we all started rushing to say, is this a new dynasty in a time where there are no dynasties because of all this parody of the last seven years? But they're young and they're still improving and they're deep and they've got 8 billion draft picks and Sam Presti's an evil genius and forget it. It's over for the next decade. And of course, they haven't even won back to back yet. They haven't won a second one yet. We'll see if they even get back to the finals. They probably will, but who knows? You know, maybe Denver knocks them out, maybe Minnesota, maybe the San Antonio spurs do. So it's, it's, it's a really premature, like, rise to villain. Like, this doesn't happen this way usually this quickly. And like, they're not even like, let's, let's face it, whatever Lou Dort did has done. However many compilations are out there on YouTube or Instagram of him doing other things that are allegedly dirty. This ain't the fucking 80s. Bad Boys Pistons, late 80s, early 90s. Like, it ain't that. So it's kind of funny that we're here already, but it is like, it, it's. It's a combination of all these things, right? It's a little bit of Shay backlash. It's a little bit of Lou Dort stuff. It's a little bit of like, you know, all right, we praised Sam Presti for being really smart. Now we're. Now we're pissed off because he's built something that looks indestructible. Not to mention, yes, all the reports, I think, accurate of this, of the Thunder who benefited from tanking. Now we're gonna stop talking about everybody else for taking. What's that.

[Logan Murdoch]

I thought we were gonna stop talking about that. We said that in the pre pod meeting. No more tanking talk. Anyway, go ahead.

[Howard Beck]

It's part of this discussion, Logan. I can't avoid it. We're not talking about tanking. We're talking about Sam Presti. That's a different thing. So there's, like, you.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

You.

[Howard Beck]

You take all of these things in combination, and, yeah, it builds to this. It still does feel like super early to be making the Thunder the villains of the NBA. But you know what? I'm for it. If for no other reason than we need rivalries, we need hostility, we need fans rooting for or against, whatever it may be. And fine.

[Logan Murdoch]

I'm. I'm.

[Howard Beck]

I'm good with it. We got, you know, Wemby, you know, with the. The sub tweets earlier in the season about ethical basketball. Like, I'm. I'm for it.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah. And just shooting at. Shooting at the. I guess the best. It's just a big corn off. Okay. It's just a lot of. Just. Just the whole league right now. Just a big corn off.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah. Buying any of it. It's all just corny bullshit.

[Logan Murdoch]

It's just corny bullshit at least. Like, you know, like, if there was a real fight, like, you knew somebody would be scared.

[Raja Bell]

You didn't even.

[Logan Murdoch]

Like, the most things that happened in this brouhaha was like, yoke is just. Just doing this and just like.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah, but dude, dude, that. He looked right. He was ready to kill somebody. That I was actually scared of my tv. I actually had to start, like, looking through my hands. I was afraid that that is the scariest fucking look I've. Well, it was at least the scariest look I'd seen since Joe Mazzulla a few days earlier staring down a reporter for daring to ask a very basic question. But other than that, it was the scariest stare of the week in the NBA.

[Logan Murdoch]

Sure. I. And I will say this. I saw Jokic in the locker room recently, and I want to access to Raja, too, but I saw. It's gonna go to a question that I'm going to ask Raja. Excuse me, but I saw Yogic in the locker room a week ago, and dude is just. I. Is just. Just a tall. Just, like, robot bro. Like, there's no way I want to, like, see him. I say all this from a camera in my house, like a block boy, but all that to say when I did see him, Raja, like, he had all these, like, random bruises and scratches and all of these different things, and I'm just like. And it made me think about the play and what happened. Jokic is like, you can't. It's hard to officiate against guys like Jokic, bro, because he's getting killed every play, man. And this has nothing to do with. Has a little bit to do with the game that just happened. But, like, I just don't know, like, from a. I feel for him. I think. I don't even know if this is a question, but I feel for him because he has to go through all this stuff and I know the backlash is like, oh, he always flops and all these things, but he gets killed in the post and he's pissed after a hip check. I feel his pain. That's all I'm saying. I feel his pain.

[Raja Bell]

Yeah. No, look, I think historically you can look at, like, big men and the treatment that they get from refs and wonder if. If they are letting a lot go because of their size just naturally with the human eye, right? Like, well, I can't call it foul every time Shaq has the ball. I mean, Shaq was so dominant. Shaq. Shaq was getting fouled, you know, almost every play. What I would. What I would say about Jokic, though, interestingly, is he creates a lot of contact, like, because he's not super athletic and he can't rely on his twitch and. And, you know, otherworldly, just kind of burst. He uses that big body as well as anybody in the world, and it's his superpower and his weapon, right? So because he's got to have his body on you all the time, you know, you're. He's going to take a beating. He plays a punishing style of ball. Like, that's what he has to do to create the space and get the angles to score or, you know, do. Do whatever it is that he's doing with the ball. So some of it he brings on himself by style of play. But I would agree with you, but. And I think that's been historically the case with bigs, you know, because they're so big and they're so strong and some. In some cases, they're so dominant refs, just as humans, lets more of that go than they. Than they maybe would for a 64 wing player. Right? Plus, you know, when you see two people like this, this is a wing and this is his defender, and they're moving and they come together. I mean, you. Everyone can see that, but when you see two guys playing like this, like, it's harder to discern what. Who created the. The advantage and who dislodged. And so, you know, you're going to get less calls. But yeah, man, when you play that type of style, Logan, and you're big, you.

[Logan Murdoch]

You.

[Raja Bell]

You're going to walk out of there with a lot of bumps, scrapes, bruises and, and, you know, in some instances, probably Have a good case for.

[Howard Beck]

For.

[Raja Bell]

For complaining that you didn't get enough fouls called for you.

[Logan Murdoch]

Draymond had a clip that just came out on his podcast. It was obviously another viral clip from Draymond that we're discussing, but he talked about his thinking behind jumping on the back of DeAndre Jordan.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Right.

[Logan Murdoch]

And for a hack of Jordan. And it. Lee, it's this. It leads to this discussion, right. Where he's saying the reason why I did it. Reckless.

[Raja Bell]

Reckless.

[Logan Murdoch]

It was very reckless. Right. But I. Right. It's a very reckless play. He said the reason why he did it was because the ref wasn't going to call a hack of. Hack of Jordan, which I don't necessarily believe, but this was his thinking. They weren't going to call a hack of Jordan unless he just sold it, which hilarious. I'm just saying. But that speaks to your point of, like, if you're trying to foul, yoke into trying to do something like that. It has to be egregious for a big man to get a call. That's what Shaq went through, and that's what Jokic is going through.

[Raja Bell]

Sure.

[Logan Murdoch]

Even though he does, I will say, more than more than Shaq. Jokic does do a little bit more like. Oh, like, go up under the arm and grab down and make it look like a foul than Shaq did.

[Raja Bell]

Yeah, it's way more of an art form. Guys have been trained, you know, to. To. To put refs in an impossible spot with that whistle by creating contact offensively, taking contact from a defender and acting like they got shot. Like, guys put rest in an impossible position over and over again. I only wanted to say the reckless with Draymond, like, you know, only because, like, we talked about, like, hard fouls, you know, dirty fouls and then reckless fouls. Like, I didn't think that was necessarily dirty. It was just reckless. Right. Like, it was. It rose above an obvious physicality. But I don't think he tried to hurt him either. So it fell into the. To the reckless bucket for me.

[Howard Beck]

Shaq created a ton of contact in his time, and referees at that time would tell me, like, he's the hardest guy in the league to officiate because, one, he's creating some contact. And so it's kind of so hard to tell sometimes whether, is that a defensive foul? Is it an offensive foul? Is it just contact? That's not a foul at all. But the other thing was, Shaq was so big, so strong, and so much bigger and stronger than almost everyone around him. Right. Like, occasionally you've got like a Greg Oster tag or somebody banging into him who's at least his size or Arvida Sabonis. But a lot of times it's like smaller dudes and, like, they're just bouncing off of him and anybody bouncing off Shaq, they committed the foul, but they took the hard fall, so they got the benefit of the doubt. Like, I, I sympathize with Shaq back, back then, like, and fans of other teams never wanted to hear it and wouldn't want to hear it now, either. But Shaq got the shit kicked out of him a lot of times. And I was there the night in

[Logan Murdoch]

Chicago where almost ended Brad Miller's life.

[Howard Beck]

Charles Oakley and Brad Miller, man, that and, yeah, that, that happened on the baseline near us. I, I, like, I thought that was going to be the end. And Shaq got a huge suspension for that, even though he didn't even make contact. But it was, it was like, you talk about, like, scary looks like, yo, Jokic the other night looked like he was going to do what, what I saw Shaq do with. With Brad Miller back in the day. Like, it was that level of, like, I've had enough. But, yeah, like, it's, it's tough when you're the biggest, strongest guy out there to, if you're the officials, discern who created the contact. Is there a foul? Who's it on? Like, that's not the case with this Lou Dort play. Right. That's a whole other category. But in general, when you walk in and I've seen the same Logan. Yeah. Like, there are so many bruises and scratches on Jokic and like, Shaq had those, too. And when you play that, and especially back then, when you're playing more in the post and everything is in the paint, everything is contact. You, like, you see it, it's. It's punishing you. You never think of it that way, because the biggest, baddest guy out there, you think, like, that guy's indestructible. He's going to dish out more than he takes. But you'd be surprised at how much of a beating the biggest guys take, for sure.

[Logan Murdoch]

Their discussion to be had. Let's just access really quickly. I'm going to ask you this, Howard, before we get into our next game of crash outs that we're going to play, where are. We talked about Denver and we talked about OKC last week a little bit, just where they're going right now in the Western Conference. And Denver obviously has a problem when Jokers is off the floor and it seems like OKC is kind of starting to peak at the right time with just the right wins that you want at this time. Opposes to Howard. And then I'll go to Roger to end it. Where do we see the Western Conference kind of stacking up at this particular point based on what we've seen over the weekend? Because I do feel like this was a big first weekend of the end of the beginning of the end of the season. So what do we. Let's kind of recalibrate how the west is real quick for five minutes. What do you think, Howard?

[Howard Beck]

I was going like if it was Thunder versus the field before the season, I said the field and I think I might have picked Denver in the preseason. Just figuring like it's just so hard to repeat. I'll, I'll, you know, even if everything else is, is going the Thunder's way, even if on paper they're still the best team, I thought it's just so hard to repeat. And actually we're seeing some of that right. Look at how many games Shea has missed. Look at how many games, you know, J Dub has missed. And that granted J Dub is, that's not purely because of the long run from the finals, but still it's just there's always a war of attrition in this league and trying to keep guys healthy as we sit here now the Thunder of a three game lead on the spurs in the West. The Thunder seemed to be coming around. They're getting healthy. Shay's back, San Antonio's right there. They look really freaking good. They smacked the, the, the Thunder around back in December a few times. I don't really consider Houston a factor in this even though they're, they're currently third tied with Minnesota. I feel like it's a four way race. If there's a race and it's, it's the Thunder, Spurs, Wolves and Nuggets and Aaron Gordon is apparently coming back within the next few days. They got to get Peyton Watson back too in Denver. But like their record with and without Aaron Gordon, the, like the, the contrast is just insane. They need him back really badly and they need Peyton Watson too if they're going to have any semblance of a defensive look at all. But I think right now it feels like still the Thunders to lose. But I honestly think this is at minimum two to three team race and maybe it's a four team race. And if you told me any of those four, which, you know, any two of those four we're in the Western Conference finals. I'd believe you, Roger.

[Raja Bell]

Yeah, I, yeah, I mean look, I, I picked okc. I'm, I'm. I think OKC is slightly. It's hard for me to say class by themselves but because San Antonio seems to have their number in that way. But like I do think they're a slight level above three or four other teams. Howard, it was good points when I was going to make about Aaron Gordon and, and Peyton Watson and just Denver in general. They for me are the team that, that I thought would challenge but they've got to be healthy, right? Like they've got to have health and they got to be firing on all cylinders coming down the stretch. Minnesota is interesting to me because, you know, they're playing better. They've been knocking on the door. They've got real experience. I would throw them in the mix too with San Antonio. We talked about them last time I was on. I think San Antonio believes, we talked about their, you know, inexperience from the coaching staff pretty much all the way down the roster like that. That's a thing. But I do think they believe in a real way. I wouldn't be so sure that Houston, while watching them night to night, I don't necessarily know that I believe them to be in that upper echelon completely. I think that they're a matchup type of team. Like if you got them in a seven game series with some of the things, you know, they do just physically and defensively in the shot making, you know, of kd, I think they could be a problem for people. But I would, I'd be okay with you putting them in a subcategory just below those other three teams. And then I do have OKC just clear of them.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah, I think it's, I think you guys are right on the money on that. Can't wait to have like a full discussion. I would add Minnesota in there too. I, I think no minute for sure what they did at the trade deadline and just how. I think we need to give a little bit more respect to Ant as a solar system type player. As long as like Ant is there, you have to give whatever team he is on the respect that they could probably make a conference finals run. I think he proved that a few years back when he beat or he helped. It was a big part of beating Denver in that seven game series. But say a quick break and we're going to play a game of rate that crash out next. The ringer NBA show is presented by fanduel basketball fans, it's almost time for the super trade a sweepstakes. FanDuel is all about those three pointer moments and on March 3rd, that's three three. You'll have your own shot at a big win downtown. Place a three point wager and you'll be entered to win a share of $3.3 million in bonus bets. All right, let's take a look at the slate and see there's Pistons, Cavs. I think I'm going to take the over on three pointers for Cade. Let's take a look at Knicks Raptors. I think I'm going to take the over on three pointers for Jalen Brunson. That should be cool. And on Spurs Sixers. I think I'm going to take the over on three pointers for Victor Wembanyama. Download the Spring Sportsbook app now to claim your profit Boost. To enter FanDuel, official sportsbook partner in the NBA must be 21 years and older in select states or 18 year older in DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. No purchase necessary. Opt in required limit 1 entry profit boost Bonus issued is non withdrawable Profit Boost Token prize issued is non withdrawable bonus bets which expire seven days after receipt. Restrictions apply including any token expiration or max wager amount. Have a gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER, call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org backslash chatinconnecticut somewhere out there is a

[Raja Bell]

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[Logan Murdoch]

And we are back. Let's take a look at the the chat that we have. I have put together a rundown of crash outs. The first. This is without context, and we haven't really gotten any context as to why this happened, but it has become a meme, and it is pretty hilarious. And it is Steph Curry staring at Draymond Green yelling at the bench during the Saturday matchup against the Los Angeles Lakers. You want to start that? Okay, let's look at it all together. I think Roger got a head start. Let's. Let's take a look.

[Raja Bell]

I mean, my favorite part is. Is by. By far Steph just like. Yeah, just like, yeah, man. Yeah, yeah. I'm gonna acknowledge you, man. Like, I'm here. I'm listening. Draymond's doing Draymond. We're gonna rate it. What are we rating it on?

[Logan Murdoch]

Scale of what? Based on. It's your scale, but it's. It's whatever your scale is, and we all have our own scales, but based out of 10, what is our crash out and what do we like? Let's. Let's go around the table and just say what we like about it, and then we will give our. Our scale. So go tell us what you. What you like about. You know what. What I do. I'm gonna go to Howard. What's your response? Let's. Let's see what your response is first. What was your favorite thing about this crash out?

[Howard Beck]

No, the favorite thing is Roger flagged. It's. It's Steph's expression slash non expression. But these guys are like, Steph and Draymond. This is like, old married couple territory, right? These guys have like. Like, Steph's just like, yeah, that's Draymond. You know, we we've been together for 50 years. This is what he does. It'll be all right.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah, we'll be fine.

[Howard Beck]

I don't know what triggered Draymond. I don't even know who he's yelling at. I'm not sure I care. That was. That was epic. That's great.

[Logan Murdoch]

This is cinema. But if.

[Howard Beck]

If we're rating it in terms of crash outs, we're not ready yet.

[Logan Murdoch]

I still got to do mine yet. You haven't done yet. I got to do mine. Then we'll go around and do the great spectacle.

[Howard Beck]

Great.

[Logan Murdoch]

Okay. I will say my favorite part of this is Steve Kerr in the back, who was like, what the hell is going on here? And then sees his Draymond, and he's like, oh, shit. Okay, it's whatever. My guy. No, that's not a security guy. I gotta shout him out. That's our guy, Don. He Put. He gives the stats to all of the. All of the players. He's been doing this. He looks very concerned. Stats to, like, all the coaches. Actually wasn't that concerned. That's Don walking in, who has seen this through the Oracle days. And he is like, oh, it's just. Everybody is just like, oh, it's just Draymond crashing out here.

[Howard Beck]

Just.

[Logan Murdoch]

We're not even.

[Raja Bell]

That's what I was going to say. No one seems really affected. Like, the reason. The rating. My rating will reflect this, but, like, no one is concerned about this crash out. Everyone is looking at him like, oh, he's straight. He'll be fine.

[Logan Murdoch]

He's fine. Even Jeremiah's like. Like, yeah, Jeremiah just has to get his shit off. Okay, let's go around the table and just rate the question.

[Raja Bell]

By the way.

[Logan Murdoch]

By the way, Raja, first.

[Raja Bell]

I had one. You're right, Howard. This is like, look, I've been married a long time. I had one of these in the kitchen this morning. My wife just gave me my space. I was talking about one of my sons, and I was crashing out, and she just gave me my space and just hit me with the staff, like,

[Logan Murdoch]

which is kind of worse because you also want a reaction from the other people, right? You're like, don't you feel me on this? I don't.

[Raja Bell]

No.

[Logan Murdoch]

That's true. You know, like, don't you feel me on this?

[Raja Bell]

Afterwards, I. I didn't. I didn't get one from her, so I just took my coffee and went outside.

[Logan Murdoch]

Whatever. Whatever.

[Howard Beck]

You went and yelled at some squirrels instead.

[Logan Murdoch]

They ran away. You were like, finally, someone was reacting.

[Raja Bell]

Jesus.

[Howard Beck]

Oh, my God, you seagulls.

[Logan Murdoch]

What is your. On this? I.

[Raja Bell]

You ask me, I would give that up. Like, actually, it looks kind of semi constructive, if you will. Like, you know what I mean? Like, he looks like he's, like, in an effort to win a game. Do you know what I mean? Like, there's. There's a line there where you're, like, just yelling because you're angry and you're MF and everybody, and then. Then there's a way you can MF everybody.

[Logan Murdoch]

Hold on. You see this vein also popping up in Draymond's, like, left part of his neck. Like, that's been just brewing for a bit of. That was like. He's.

[Raja Bell]

He's.

[Logan Murdoch]

This has been brewing. Like, he's been pissed about being the only guy, like, knowing the rotations and shit. I don't know what this is about, but this is just. Come on. And it's Just like, I'm going to

[Raja Bell]

give that a. I'm going to give that a five on the Draymond scale. Four to five. I mean, just what is it?

[Logan Murdoch]

Because no one.

[Raja Bell]

I got other. I got other reference, like, points for him to other. Like, this is. This is relatively benign, bro. We're not tripping off this.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah, yeah. I was going to say somewhere between, like a five and a six at most. Because not just that it's on the Draymond scale, but also, like, there's no consequence here. No one is particularly alarmed or concerned. We.

[Logan Murdoch]

I.

[Howard Beck]

We can't see the people it's directed at. Right. We can't see the bench. Like, if for all I know, those guys were like, wedding themselves, but probably not. So. No, it's like, this was just standard Draymond fair. So I can't. I can't get too carried away here.

[Raja Bell]

Yeah, we. I mean, we've choked people, we've punched people in the face, we've kicked people in the nuts. We've yelled and screamed at coaches and got kicked out of games.

[Logan Murdoch]

I mean, this is actually constructive. This is actually constructive for Draymond and everyone involved. This shows a maturity from Draymond and everyone else involved. Draymond's getting his shit off. We're like, okay, cool, get your shit off. And he's like, fuck. And I'm gonna go to the bench. Yeah, I'm gonna give four or five. I think I was even thinking maybe on the entertainment skill, it could be like a seven, but, like, there have been more entertaining crash notes that I've watched over and over. Maybe replay value is great because it's very much more memeable. Right. I've seen so many more memes about it. Like, you know, when such and such is having a heart. I don't know. I don't want to get into it because some of my. My algorithms all up, and I don't think it's appropriate for a real one's type of audience. But it's, I'd say memeable. Memeability. It's. It's up there for sure.

[Raja Bell]

Yeah, Super.

[Howard Beck]

Very Logan's algorithm.

[Logan Murdoch]

Super.

[Raja Bell]

I'll be sending.

[Logan Murdoch]

I'll be sending to the group chat. Yes, exactly. Let's. Let's get to another one that happened and actually go back to the Nicole. We already have a Fredo. Raise the cola Jokic, Lou Dort ejection crash out. Where does that rate on everyone's scale? What do we think? We've talked about that, but where does that Rate. Roger, you go first.

[Raja Bell]

Yeah, I'm gonna give that an eight. Nine. I'm with Howard.

[Logan Murdoch]

Oh, okay.

[Raja Bell]

He was. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, he was. I. I. You know, I. I've seen him at a 10. I wouldn't go all the way to 10. 10 was like, who did he sh. Who did he run down and, like, just barrel into their back? Was that marquee for Market? Like, which one of the Morris twins?

[Howard Beck]

I think it was Morris.

[Logan Murdoch]

It was a Morris. Yes, it was.

[Raja Bell]

So it wasn't that, but it's. It was. It was just. I mean, he was. He looked irate. I'm gonna give him an eight.

[Logan Murdoch]

Okay. All right. And also, we don't like not to say that Jokic isn't about a crash out. We just don't see it very often. Right.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah.

[Logan Murdoch]

You know, like, in the Draymond scale is, like, we see this all the time, so it kind of takes the. The shine off the crash out. I agree with you, Howard. What are your thought? What are your thoughts? How do you. How do you. What do you think about this? We'll go.

[Howard Beck]

I mean, like I said in real time, I thought this was going to get really ugly. My brain was already going toward, oh, he's gonna throw down. He's gonna get ejected. He's gonna get suspended. There goes the 65 game rule. He's gonna be ineligible for all NBA and mvp. Like, my. I mean, I was, like, immediately, like, went to consequences mode because I just thought this was. I. I thought this was going to be out of control. He did, like, try to reach for Jalen Williams's, like, neck, and he kind of caught his hair. And then, like, Thunder fans are like, oh, he pulled his hair. Which, like, bullshit. He just, like, he was, like, reaching at him. They were kind of just flailing at each other. And in real time, it kind of looked like maybe swings, but it's actually more just like the usual silly NBA hold me back. Exactly. But still, just by his expression alone and everything that. Everything around it, like, I'll give it, like, an A9 on the crash out, but his eyes get A12. Oh, his eyes were. His eyes crashed out, like.

[Logan Murdoch]

And the mouthpiece to the mouth.

[Howard Beck]

The mouthpiece between the. Dude, it was, like, fully Von Drago at that moment. I just. I just thought that Rocky. Excuse me, Apollo Creed is about to die.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah.

[Howard Beck]

Like, this is it. It's over.

[Logan Murdoch]

Hey, shout out to Jay. Jay Will for this, though, because that's a. That's a. That's a lot to ask. Just go running yokage like that.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah. You're the tallest dude out there on your team at that moment. You got to be the one to stand there.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah. In terms of meme ability, it's obviously a 12 out of. Out of 10. I agree with you on that. But I have a hot take here. A bit of a hot take. I think it's like a six on the scale.

[Howard Beck]

What?

[Logan Murdoch]

Because I'm watching it as we're doing this right now, and I'm. And I'm comparing it to what happened in Charlotte, and that replay value was just so much better, bro. It was just. There was just so many crash outs among Crow. I wish we. I wish that happened. I. You know, I don't want people to get suspended or anything, but that were to happen. I wish that happened over the weekend because we would able to be able to play this game. But that was a 10 out of 10 on all things because there were separate crash outs and separate story lines within all of this. This was confined to.

[Howard Beck]

That was like group crash out, though. That was a group.

[Logan Murdoch]

But I'm just saying, like, in terms of watchability, it's like the Kendrick Lamar super bowl halftime show. Like, I'm watching it over and over and over again. Right. This was like, the meme was great, and it was great for those, like, maybe five to 10, you know, seconds of when. When they got head to head, but I got to give it a six. I'm sorry. Maybe that's. That's. That's. That's my hot take.

[Raja Bell]

Because I think it's.

[Logan Murdoch]

I think that's better. Is that low?

[Raja Bell]

Well, you don't get.

[Logan Murdoch]

Okay.

[Raja Bell]

Yeah, well, no, yeah. I mean, I feel you on the 10. You know, the Charlotte.

[Logan Murdoch]

I'm comparing it to the Charlotte one, which is the Crash.

[Raja Bell]

You get so few of those, though, right? Like, that's cr.

[Logan Murdoch]

Crash out of the year. That was a generational crash out of the year.

[Raja Bell]

Yeah, it's a great crash out.

[Logan Murdoch]

It was a great crash out, man. It was a great. But. Okay. All right, good job. Great game on the fly, everybody. We also have enough time for a mailbag question.

[Raja Bell]

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[Logan Murdoch]

Spurs Home WIMBY MVP Question this is from Jake Edmiston hello Logan, Raja and Howard. I was listening to your pod from Tuesday discussing the spurs and then going into an MVP discussion based on a mailbag question about games played had me pondering. As noted in the subject, I am a Spurs homer but I wanted to know why Jaylen Brown is in his MVP case. The discussion has been how they have over exceeded expectations because everyone has had the Celtics projected around 6 to 10 position in the East. I think some thought that their floor was also lower but they hold this up as wow look at what Jaylen Brown is doing. And yes I agree that has been awesome. Although some analytics are certainly funky with his on off we've referenced out of the pod. So with Wemby I am not sure why he doesn't get this talking point. I listened to a lot of pods and was quite obsessed with the preseason shows where Wemby ranked the Spurs. Almost everyone had them six to eight. So barely out of the play in or the play in and losing in the first round. I feel like the whole NBA media has collective amnesia. The Spurs I would argue have overperformed performed more than any team. Spurs and Celtics are basically the same over under I would put the the Spurs, Celtics, Pistons. I would just say that Mitch Johnson should get more recognition as coach of the year because usually coach of the year goes to the team will outperform expectations the most. Again spurs homer. But even me who was wildly optimistic had them third in the east and winning around 55 games and they are beating my expectations. Sorry for the long email. Love the pod. Feel free to put me in my place and also shout out to Howard. I go by Jake. Long story, but my name is Howard William Edmondson the fourth and my son is now the fifth. The Howard Dave is strong. Hell yeah. What up? What up Howard? Jake Edmondson the fourth.

[Howard Beck]

I mean that was great. Where, where, where was my fellow? That was a journey when I needed him. Like you could just change your name to J. If I could have been Jake when I was like 10 and I was catching all this shit for being named. Do you know how hard it was growing up Howard in the 70s and 80s?

[Logan Murdoch]

Not the coolest, I gotta tell you. Literally an iconic name. You've made it.

[Raja Bell]

Did you have a nickname Howard? What's your name? What was your nickname?

[Logan Murdoch]

Was it how.

[Howard Beck]

No, there was, there was. There was no specific nickname at any given time. It's more just that if you're a Howard in that time, you were either, like, getting like, Howard Cunningham jokes from Happy Days. Howard Cosell, not exactly the guy you really want to be compared to on a daily basis. We had a rich guy, Howard Hughes, who's, like, a lunatic. Howard the Duck came out when I was in high school. That wasn't a great moment for Howard's world. Around the world, yeah. Not an easy one. I actually considered going by my middle name, Alan, at one point, because I was like. When I was going off to college, I'm like, I can just change who I am. I'm good. These people have never met me.

[Logan Murdoch]

It would have been, your name is awesome, man.

[Raja Bell]

Yeah, man. Come on.

[Logan Murdoch]

Your name is awesome. Stop.

[Raja Bell]

But you did not. But listen, you did not have a

[Howard Beck]

nickname friends for a period of time in college. I was going more by Howie than Howard because I thought it sounded less

[Logan Murdoch]

formal back then, right? Howie Long was the shit, dude.

[Raja Bell]

Howie Long.

[Howard Beck]

I've said this many times. I've never said on this pod, probably Howie Long was the first Howard of my lifetime who made the name actually sound cool. Because Howie Long was a big fucking badass raider. Like, no one was fucking with him. I unfortunately, not built like Howie Long, but Howie Long made Howard slash Howie momentarily cool. Or at least not as uncool as it had been, thanks to Howard Cosell, Howard Cunningham, and Howard the Duck. So, you know, thank you, Howie Long. There's a. So there's a period of time where I have a bunch of friends, especially from certain college years, who still to this day call me Howie, but they're the only ones who are allowed to. Anybody else tries that, forget it. Because it just. Anybody else.

[Logan Murdoch]

I'm looking. I'm looking at my former coworker from the San Jose Mercury News, who I love to death, and I feel like, because I forgot his name, but he is one of your best friends who went to UC Davis. Dan Brown gets to call me Dan Brown, the. The sweet, most. The biggest sweetheart of all time. He came to the live show, he calls him Howie, and he told me the name Howie. I don't call him Howie because I feel like I'm gonna get stabbed. But for the purpose of this conversation, I know his nickname is Howie. Shout out to Dan Brown, the sweetest person of all time. He was like. He was in the front row of our live show.

[Howard Beck]

He's a great dude.

[Logan Murdoch]

Anyway, the question spurs Howard William Edmiston iv.

[Howard Beck]

And he named his son the same as he's the fifth. That is some wow. I want. Now I need to know if the son is going to go by Jake II instead of Howard V or Anyway, we were talking about Wemby I guess I so here's the thing to to his question. First of all, he's right. Mitch Johnson absolutely huge coach of the year candidacy, I think and has been. I think it's been below the radar. But we don't really get. We don't start talking coach of the year a lot until maybe right around this time of year. But like between him, Missoula, J.B. bickerstaff again, I think like there's a really strong feel but Mitch Johnson should get a ton of run A lot of consideration for the spurs just having wildly exceeded expectations. The MVP argument is interesting in this because like to to his question, Jalen Brown was not getting conversationally or being thrust into this conversation because the Celtics just exceeded expectations. They yes, both teams have exceeded expectations, but look at the cases. The spurs have exceeded expectations based on having a shit ton of talent, but really young talent. And we thought it would take more time, but they already have a generational superstar in Victor Wembanyama.

[Logan Murdoch]

Who.

[Howard Beck]

Who's we. Even coming into the season, we all would have put him as a top five player at minimum. So in some respects, nothing to do is surprising. It's just a matter of how quickly he could get to the point where he could carry them and how quickly Stefan Castle would continue to develop or, or Dylan Harper would develop or how much Deer and Fox would mesh with them. Having come in midway through last season, then immediately getting hurt. But there's a ton of talent there, whereas the Celtics are the opposite. The Celtics shed all of their talent because Tatum got hurt and they let go of Porzingis and Cornette and Drew Holiday and, and Horford. And so like Jalen Brown steps into a number one role he'd never done before. His candidacy is. Candidacy is more about that. And the fact is, look, Tim Bond's Temp's latest straw poll had Wemby, I think, fourth and Jaylen Brown sixth. I had Jalen Brown fourth on my fictional ballot, which was, you know, just off the cuff. I don't know where he'll be on the real ballot once we get there, but yeah, I mean these are, these are just different considerations. Also, notably, notably Wemby's candidacy has been a little bit muted up until now because of the games played problem. I think he's missed 14 games. It hasn't hurt Jokic as much because Jokic was all like he. Jokic's numbers are so stupidly dominant and historic, that it overcomes that. And what I'll always tell people about the MVP discussion and the ballot and everything, it's a bunch of different factors, and there's a hundred voters, and everybody weighs those factors differently. So there's like, your individual excellence and your. Your box score numbers and your advanced stats. There's your team's record, which matters a lot, and that's helping Wemby a lot right now. There's games played. There's the context of your team. There's, like, it's a. It's a bunch of things that are all kind of baked in. And there's no. It's not scientific. Like, you're not weighing all these things equally, and there's no formula. You just kind of, like, smash it all together and decide where you feel comfortable ranking a guy. And I think Wemby ultimately is going to finish top five for sure for the first time in his career, and I think he's got a chance to be top three. And as one of my peers mentioned last week, if the spurs win the west, and I don't mean Western Conference finals win. I mean, like, finish in the first spot in the standings, there's a good chance that Wimy could actually win mvp. I'm not. I'm not ready to jump there yet, but one of my peers said that he thinks that that's what will happen if. If the spurs finish first in the West. Look at.

[Logan Murdoch]

Look, I can see making all of our points for us, like, and just.

[Raja Bell]

Yeah.

[Logan Murdoch]

Every angle. Howard.

[Howard Beck]

Sorry. That was a lot.

[Raja Bell]

Yeah. No good. I mean, I. I just. I just say that, like, I don't appreciate the question, but, like, Wemby. Wemby is. I mean, he's in the MVP conversation. Like, if your argument is, why isn't he. Why does he get the same narrative as Jalen's case for mvp? It's.

[Logan Murdoch]

It's.

[Raja Bell]

You articulated that really well, Howard, because the narrative. It's not the same narrative. It might seem similar, but it's just. It's just not the same narrative.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah. Also, I. I picked Wimby to. I. I had expectations. I just want to push back on that. I had big expectations for the Spurs. You can go check the tape. I was there. Logan.

[Howard Beck]

Logan reminds us about once every five to six shows, he picked one for mvp.

[Logan Murdoch]

It's. It's. It's my.

[Raja Bell]

Almost as many times.

[Logan Murdoch]

It's my game, not more. It's my Robert Ori. I'm not right often. Okay. I am not it's been a few

[Howard Beck]

weeks since I said I think the Sixers could be top six in the Eastern Conference if everything breaks right, and I'm looking pretty good.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah. All right, man. Hey, listen, he does.

[Raja Bell]

He does. Like, let's. I mean, if the spurs get to first in the west, he gets mvp, right? Like, that's how. That's. I mean, if.

[Howard Beck]

Really strong case. Yeah. And if.

[Raja Bell]

Yeah, dude.

[Howard Beck]

And if he doesn't miss another four games, right? Like, he's got to stay healthy. He's. He's. He's flirting with that 65 game rule himself. But. So the margin for error is not huge, but the closer we get, the more they're going to say, like, yeah, fuck your ankle. Get out there. Or he's going to say, fuck my ankle. I'm going out there. Like, they and he are going to want to chase that for sure.

[Logan Murdoch]

Interesting. Celtics and Spur both have winning records without their top guys this season. Jalen Brown, Celtics are 5 and 1 without him in the lineup, and the spurs are 10 and 4 without one being the lineup. It's interesting. Nothing, you know, nothing more than that. Real ones, my [e-mail]. realwinsmailbag gmail.com realwinsmailback gmail.com Anything you got any grievance, you guys, any more grievances you want to air out? Raja, about any other games?

[Raja Bell]

No, no, I crashed.

[Logan Murdoch]

Okay. Any more Sixers takes from you, Howard?

[Howard Beck]

No, no. No updates to my Sixers takes.

[Logan Murdoch]

Okay. All right, cool. I'm gonna be very excited. I should get a certificate if we wins the mvp. I was very. I'm very excited with that pick. Gonna make that pick for the next, like, how long? Seven straight years.

[Raja Bell]

How long is Joel. How long is Joel out?

[Logan Murdoch]

Sorry.

[Howard Beck]

I think it's another couple games.

[Logan Murdoch]

I'm sorry, Cliff. I. I'm sorry, bro. That's my bad. That's my bad. I didn't mean to do that. I didn't. I'm just. Cut them off. We don't have to do that. We don't have to break my back.

[Raja Bell]

My bad. I didn't mean to open up another can. My bad.

[Logan Murdoch]

Hey, wait. I do have a question. Sixers related for you, Raja. Did you get your Air Force ones from the Sixers for. I feel like I saw on the Internet that they got Air Force ones for the, like, everybody that came to the reunion. Did you get yours?

[Raja Bell]

Oh, I didn't go. No, I didn't go. I don't. I don't know that. I think you might have had to be. I have been there to receive the gift. I. I didn't attend.

[Logan Murdoch]

I just want to say, bro, I want to just commend you for your commitment to Jordan 1. Lowe's, bro. Because I saw the pictures of you in the University of Houston garb, and you had the matching Air Force or Jordan 1 lows. Like, I can't see you going full Dr. Dre with the Air Force ones. I just. All I see you in is Jordan one lows and every choice.

[Raja Bell]

Yeah, dude, come on. Jordan.

[Logan Murdoch]

Jordan one lose.

[Howard Beck]

That's it.

[Logan Murdoch]

How do you get them in every color, though? I didn't even see the ones. I've never seen the ones that you had on. I didn't know you had them for every team.

[Raja Bell]

Yeah, I mean, I have something. I don't have it for every team, but I have something for just. They can come close enough to a lot of teams. So, like, I. I feel pretty comfortable if you tell me, hey, here's the color scheme. Do you have a Jordan one to go with that? I. I probably could find something.

[Logan Murdoch]

Okay. All right. All right. Realsmail [e-mail] real ones [e-mail] real ones [e-mail]. thanks so much for listening. We will see you back on Friday. It's gonna be a great show. I think that's all I got for you guys. Ah, all the shits. Bye. Must be 21 years and older and present in select states for Kansas and affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 and older and present in D.C. kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem, call 1-800- GAMBLER or 1-800-MY-RESET. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.orgbackslashchatincenetic or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelpma.org or call 1-800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-HOPE NY or text HOPE NY in New York. For Louisiana, call 1-877-770-7867.