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- [00:00]
Justin Varier
This episode is brought to you by patron. 100% additive free tequila. When it comes to ingredients, Patron doesn't need to play games. That's why their tequila is crafted with 100% Weber Blue Agave water and thyme. No sweeteners, no added extracts, no secrets, just 100% additive free tequila. Visit patron tequila.com to learn more. The perfect way to enjoy Patron is responsibly Copyright 2025, imported by the Patron Spirits Company Coral Gables, Florida. Tequila 40% Alcoh by volume. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Basketball fans know that a great assist can change the game. And there's no greater assist than one from State Farm. State Farm is here to help you navigate the right coverage for your home, car and more. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. State Farm, Bloomington, IL coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability and eligibility vary by state. Hello and welcome to Group Chat. I am Justin Varier and joining me, Rob Mahoney and the new majority owner of the Boston Celtics, Big Waz Woz. Congratulations on your new expensive purchase.
- [01:21]
Big Waz Woz
Thank you, man. I can't wait to rip it for parts and sell off the most valuable pieces like every other private equity does to any, you know, decent American business. So I'm looking forward to it.
- [01:34]
Rob Mahoney
What are we if not capitalists on this podcast, Justin? You know, we just have the mind to tinker, to perfect, to optimize. That's what Group Chat's all about, optimize.
- [01:42]
Big Waz Woz
I want to. Unfortunately for this private equity group, the Celtics don't own the land in which they play on. And so they can't sell that, which is what they tend to do to most assets that they purchase. You know, like loaded up with debt, strip the good stuff for themselves and then send the employees home crying to their families because they no longer have a way to support themselves. But shout to the new Boston Celtics owners, man, private. What would he.
- [02:06]
Justin Varier
What role do Rob and I have in this organization? Because assuming that you're going to be the CEO, the guy at the board meetings, like what do Rob and I do?
- [02:14]
Big Waz Woz
You're going to be my coo.
- [02:16]
Justin Varier
Okay.
- [02:17]
Big Waz Woz
A chief operating officer.
- [02:20]
Justin Varier
Okay.
- [02:20]
Big Waz Woz
Right. Because you're going to be in charge of operations, logistics and logistics. Yeah, yeah.
- [02:27]
Rob Mahoney
Rob, what do you got for me? Was.
- [02:30]
Big Waz Woz
What do we got for Rob? Rob is definitely. Who's the people that speak speak to the public most.
- [02:36]
Rob Mahoney
Oh, you want me to pr. I'm ready to go.
- [02:39]
Big Waz Woz
I want you to be our front facing guy, you know, like, because Justin, we know he's Too ornery. He can't. Definitely going on Meet the Press and freaking cnbc. We don't, we don't want that. But Rob will be the guy. We'll come up with some name for it, but he will be the mouthpiece of the company and I'll just be in the shadows, just sort of orchestrating and. Yeah, just being as greedy and efficient as possible.
- [03:06]
Rob Mahoney
I will definitely sell your agenda. Was. But I do demand a Oklahoma City Thunderesque extravagant title like Director of Foresight or whatnot. In the case of. Was that Rob Hennigan, who was the Director of Foresight once upon a time?
- [03:19]
Justin Varier
Oh, that's right. Yes.
- [03:21]
Rob Mahoney
So I think, I think we can be. We can be a little creative about the nature of that communication, you know, director of Human to human interaction here at the Boston Celtics.
- [03:29]
Justin Varier
Yeah, Rob's the Alison Janney of this. He's the PR chief. He's the one. He's the face of the ownership group.
- [03:37]
Rob Mahoney
Genuinely the nicest thing you've ever said to me. So thank you.
- [03:40]
Justin Varier
Okay, we'll find a way to walk that back here. As we get into today's episode, a annual tradition here as the NCAA Tournament is off and running, we're going to talk about the teams that probably have more interest in those games than they do in their own NBA games. We are going to say, or at least try to say one nice thing about team. First and foremost, with the Eastern Conference.
- [04:04]
Rob Mahoney
You'Ve already, you've already busted the premise by calling them shit teams. We are, we're saying nice things about.
- [04:10]
Big Waz Woz
These teams, about this team. Things are going to turn around one day for these guys. Look at the Pistons. If anything, the Pistons should serve as a reminder that you can go from losing 40 straight games, as they did, you know, a season or two ago, to being like, look out of the plan, threatening for a fifth seed. Like, come on now, things can turn around quickly for these teams. I don't think they will, but they could. Potentially.
- [04:37]
Justin Varier
All it took for the Pistons was rostering credible players up and down the roster. Who would have known? Who would have thought? But congrats to them. So maybe our, our first team on the board can take some lessons from that because we're going to talk about the worst team in the east right now and the worst team in the NBA after losing the big old shit bowl last night with the Utah Jazz. We're talking about the Washington Wizards, owners of the 15 win record, 15 and 53 as we're recording this. But we will say it's been a real Pax Romana, real boom town right now because six of the past 12 Rob they've, they've won. So they're really on the come up.
- [05:12]
Rob Mahoney
You know, the vibes are pretty incredible. Ever since the the like the hailed Kyle Kuzma trade, I have to say, you know, just.
- [05:19]
Justin Varier
That's right.
- [05:20]
Rob Mahoney
The energy in the room has shifted. The young guys are really singing. We were just talking about Alex R recently on the pod and before this one has had some incredible games recently. A lot is starting to click, relatively speaking, for a team that doesn't really have anywhere to go. But any clicking at this point in the season is great for the Wizards.
- [05:37]
Justin Varier
I think we got to start with Sar then because I have to say my, my SAR stock is looking pretty good right now. I think we talked about him a couple episodes ago when we were redrafting all of the recent drafts. I always like the mold of a player that he's in, but recently he has been really popping. And so my one nice thing is, I think was Sar is a guy who could. I don't know if he's going to be a building block per se, but I also love the fact that he could fit whatever mold this team is going to be in the future.
- [06:02]
Big Waz Woz
SAR is my nice thing too, because I happen to be in Denver. On Saturday when they played the Nuggets, I did not make it to Ball Arena. Instead, I watched it from my guy, Adam Mares bar, the DNVR sports bar out there. So I watched it in the presence of a bunch of Nuggets fans, which I found to be quite amusing because they were literally having a meltdown. Like, how can our team who wants to calls themselves an NBA championship contender be losing to the Wizards, which they ended up doing. And Sar had the game of his life.
- [06:37]
Justin Varier
That's the second time they lost to the Wizards, right?
- [06:40]
Big Waz Woz
Yes, it is.
- [06:40]
Justin Varier
This season.
- [06:42]
Big Waz Woz
What I like to say is the 72 and 10 Bulls lost to Vancouver twice in the 72 and 10 season, the expansion, these expansion Grizzlies. Sar was incredible and I think he flashed all of the things that they drafted him for in terms of potential, his incredible elite, especially for his position, athleticism and mobility. He flashed an incredible motor, made a couple of threes, absolutely splashed one late in that game. And I'm like, oh, okay. You see the contours of what this guy could potentially be. This like futuristic, very mobile, big, not a guy with a lot of heft, but can move around beautifully and can show some level of skill. Work in terms of his shooting, a little bit of ball handling, that kind of thing from the big man position. So dropped 34 points against Jokic, which. Which admittedly, like I watched, they. They were not trying their absolute hardest. He wasn't playing defense.
- [07:43]
Justin Varier
No.
- [07:44]
Big Waz Woz
But, you know, 34 is 34 guys, a career high, looked like a number one pick. And so that was, for me, the nice thing is, like, actually sitting down. Not gonna lie. This is the first full Wizards game I've watched in what, months? I'm not gonna lie to the people. Sitting out for a full game and watching Sar do his thing that I felt positive coming out of that.
- [08:05]
Rob Mahoney
It's been nice seeing him use and leverage that athleticism. And overall, like, the agility and mobility that you're talking about was on offense as much as anything. We know he's an incredible defensive prospect. We know what he can do defending the rim, what he could eventually be as a switch defender in time. But seeing him put on the floor, work in space, like find ways to knife to the rim that are going to be useful even when the shot isn't falling in quite that way.
- [08:27]
Big Waz Woz
Dare I? See now.
- [08:29]
Rob Mahoney
See, now we're saying nice things. Now we're. Now we're really getting on the record. But if he can be that kind of mobile threat, it changes a lot about what the Wizards are, what his future will be in the NBA. Like, it seems like the kind of thing where if a guy is agile and reads the floor well on one end, he should be able to do it on the other end. It's just not often the case. And to see a player as young as Sar bring it together, even relatively late in the season, I think is a great sign.
- [08:54]
Justin Varier
So his top four scoring games this season have all come within the past month. 34, 22, 22, 21. I believe he had 22 in about like 23 minutes last night against the Jazz because he was so good, they actually had to shut him down in order to get J.T. thor and those guys out there in order to tank that game pretty explicitly. But nobody was actually watching that game except for me, so nobody notices. So 19, 8, 3 and 2 over his past eight games, 41% from three. I think if you were going to quibble about some of the results, a lot of it is dependent on the three ball going in. He does have good form, I will say. Sometimes, like, he gets the ball like his elbow is a little too close to his body and gets a little more inward, but he does have good form. The Problem is, a lot of what he's doing is just coming from three. 41% of his field goal attempts have come from three this season. And we're talking about an athletic, mobile seven footer. Can you guys guess what percentage of his attempts are coming from at the basket within three feet?
- [09:53]
Rob Mahoney
Oh, it's very few.
- [09:54]
Justin Varier
Yeah.
- [09:55]
Big Waz Woz
Eight.
- [09:57]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [09:57]
Justin Varier
Close.
- [09:58]
Rob Mahoney
An under 10 definitely feels right. Especially the combination of someone who doesn't have a lot of physical strength right now and also doesn't play with a lot of pure point guards. A recipe for disaster as far as shots around the rim go.
- [10:08]
Justin Varier
Okay, it wasn't that bad. 18, 18. But we're talking about much better than I thought, which is saying something. But if you're looking at other guys, I looked at like clinging, for instance, like 78.
- [10:20]
Rob Mahoney
Oh, yeah.
- [10:21]
Justin Varier
All. All at the basket. He just doesn't have like very good feel around the basket. Not great touch. And so I think he's going to be the type of guy who's going to need to add strength in order to finish over the top of guys. I don't think he's going to be this sort of crafty Senui finisher who's going to have like a real bag to finish around guys. So that would be my concern. I do say though, like, he does have decent passing feel. Like I don't know if he has overall court vision, but you look at it like it's two, three assists, like practically every night. I don't want to stereotype him, but he does have that kind of European sort of flavor where it's like he plays within the flow of the offense. He's not going to break off in order to just get his shot. Like he's actually moving. And if you're expecting him to be the number three, number four option on your team, I think that's a good sign.
- [11:02]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [11:03]
Big Waz Woz
Yeah. And to get back to the Amari point, like, he's obviously not Amari Stoudemire, who at this guy's age was already physically better than every single nine out of ten NBA bigs where, you know, basically the concept was he was either too fast for every big man that tried to guard him, or if the guy was fast enough, he would just physically overpower the dude, then eventually added a jump shot to it and became virtually unstoppable. This is probably not going to be in Sar's future, but I think a more pared down version of this where he does use his athletic ability, you know, on the offensive end where this jump shot becomes Respectable enough that big men have to go out on him. Right. And he could use his quickness and agility to leverage that shooting that he's flashed recently. I think there's a. There's a concept there that, that, that Wizards fans can be happy about. Plus, the pool party is back in effect. Man, I'm. I'm putting my swim trunks on, man. You know, I'm gonna get a Jamaican arena.
- [12:08]
Justin Varier
No, no.
- [12:09]
Big Waz Woz
I don't do the speedos.
- [12:10]
Rob Mahoney
No.
- [12:10]
Big Waz Woz
But I will do a European cut. It's going to be some short shorts. Now, of course. Don't get it twisted. It just will not be speedos. We don't show off.
- [12:18]
Justin Varier
The public doesn't need to see the.
- [12:19]
Big Waz Woz
Lack of a bulge there. We don't. We don't need to do that. We don't need to expose the streets to that.
- [12:25]
Rob Mahoney
Okay, was. How do you feel about a proper pool party? I have to say, I'm not exactly my scene. Like a Vegas, we're all standing hip deep in the pool, but that's it kind of party. Not my thing, but is it yours?
- [12:37]
Big Waz Woz
I'm. I'm with a Vegas pool party, but I'm going to be in a cabana. I'm not. I'm not going to be with the riff raff in the actual pool. Now, a person's pool party at their house, so long as they keep the guest count relatively down and respectable. I love a pool party. Barbecue by the pool.
- [12:53]
Rob Mahoney
Hell, yeah.
- [12:54]
Big Waz Woz
Hang out some pool chairs. I love that. I just don't like a crowded pool situation. I don't.
- [13:00]
Justin Varier
Rob and I. I think Rob and I are more in the, like, Bo Burnham movie. What was that, eighth grade, where that style. We're just trying to avoid.
- [13:08]
Rob Mahoney
Trying to hide out in the house for a little while.
- [13:10]
Justin Varier
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. That's. That's probably more my scene.
- [13:13]
Rob Mahoney
I will say, as far as the Alexar part of the veer us back from the pool party literal into the figurative one. Jordan Pool has been very good this season. I think overall, him becoming a more normal NBA player has been a wonderful development for the Wizards and a wonderful development for his career. Like, he's just starting to fall into a slightly more responsible pattern of recognition of decision making. He's starting to play like an actual conscience. Well, I think some of that is circumstance, and I will say that is true. It's all relative. There's Jordan Pool's conscience today, and there's where it was 12 months ago, and those are very different things.
- [13:48]
Big Waz Woz
That's good. That's true.
- [13:50]
Justin Varier
What else do you have? Rob?
- [13:52]
Rob Mahoney
Well, while we're, while we're on stock watch, if anyone out there is selling Keyshawn George stock, I would like to come collect it. I'm putting out my bid now that I will take all Keyshawn George Stock, the 24th pick in the draft last year, he's shooting 37% from the field, 32% from three. And I will tell you, he's better than that. And you can already see it. And you can see him starting to put some pieces of his game together ultimately, just like a good, versatile wing with clear, demonstrable ball skill. That's a guy I want to invest in. I think he's going to be a good defender. I think he's going to be a good connector. He's already a pretty decent pick and roll player. I just think he's the kind of guy whose game is going to sing when his team makes sense. And right now the Wizards don't make sense. And so he is the wing guy who gets kind of lost in the shuffle, produces 40 minutes.
- [14:36]
Big Waz Woz
Against Denver on Saturday, they could not take him off the floor.
- [14:40]
Justin Varier
Producer Zay was saying that he clocked him before the season when he was doing an interview with our Tate Frazier and he just liked that mentality, just came in there wanting to be a role player. And so here he is fitting that bowl. Yeah, I think he's going to be solid. I do think the Wizards are actually sneakily solid with some of these guys that could be rotation pieces down the road there, which is if you're going to tear things down to the studs, if you're not even going to try to aspire to competent in this season. I think that's what you want. You want to stack guys who could play minutes for you down the road. I don't know if they have anybody who I would love seeing starting next to Sar on on the lower level like George. Could he be in the starting lineup? Maybe if so. But I would say they're actually more watchable than a lot of teams we're going to talk about in this list these days. There's prospect watching happening here.
- [15:28]
Rob Mahoney
I mean, Vuktovic minutes are can't miss now and forever.
- [15:32]
Justin Varier
I know he's something.
- [15:34]
Rob Mahoney
This is his time of year ultimately. You know, like that's what I love about doing this exercise now is because when we start checking in with these teams to say one nice thing, it's just like this is Tristan Vuktovic's month and it's going to be that way every time we do this exercise from now until eternity. And I am at peace. I'm not just at peace with that. I find. I find relief in it. I find comfort in that fact.
- [15:54]
Justin Varier
Anthony Gill still getting minutes on this team.
- [15:57]
Rob Mahoney
Let's go.
- [15:58]
Justin Varier
That guy's going to be in the front office before we know it just because he's such a legacy on this team. Let's go to the Hornets now, the next team up on the standings. And I'll be honest, this is the team I really had to. To work for. Like, there are the obvious ones, obviously. Lamello ball, Brandon Miller, then Miles Bridges. They have talent on this roster. But if you were to watch the product as it stands right now, with all those guys out, it's pretty bleak.
- [16:21]
Rob Mahoney
They're very bad, just. Just a very bad team. And they've had moments of the season where Charles Lee had them playing, like, pretty competent defense, and it's just everything has fallen to shit. And they've played so many guys because they've had injuries, they've had, you know, prospects in and out of the lineup trying, just like trying guys on for size. None of it has really worked. And none of it really works, particularly when Lamelo is off the. The floor. So what can you do at this point if you're the Hornets?
- [16:45]
Big Waz Woz
I think my ray of light for them are the Lamelo ball trade rumors. I think it shows a departure from the Jordan, Michael Jordan sort of school of thinking of, let's chase their version, the Hornets version, of some respectability at all costs. Whereas this new regime was like, look, this is not the makings or the bones of some dope future going forward. We've already paid the guy. Let him go figure out his, you know, his future somewhere else. And let's, like, try to actually start from scratch as a regime and get this thing going in the right direction. And that, to me, is a positive indication. Look, people might say, like, look, they're going to stink. Fans shouldn't have to watch stinky products all the time. I agree with that. But you stink with LaMelo Ball, too.
- [17:37]
Rob Mahoney
It's true.
- [17:38]
Big Waz Woz
And so what's. Why not stink without him? It's not like these guys are playing, you know, 500 ball, a 48 win ball, and I'm like, yo, tear this down to the studs, because this sucks. I actually would, like, disagree with that, especially for a team that's had no success at all, right. In the entire Jordan tenure. They were the laughing stock. He was the worst owner in the league. Let's face it. And so to be like, you know what, let's start a fresh slate and try to do something new, a new foundation to build upon, that's what I am heartened by for the Charlotte Hornets.
- [18:14]
Justin Varier
Yeah, mine kind of goes with Woz is I think they're doing the work right now. They are eating their bowl of shit in order to have a better future down the road, which they haven't been doing for a very long time. Like just the fact that they have interesting guys on this team is like a credit to them that they're not just bringing in retreads, bringing in veterans just to stabilize a.500 team, just to get into the first round of the play in not even like the, the second game, they're just out in the first one. And so I do think that the long term vision for that team is there. Even though right now seeing daquan Jeffries, all 27 years old, suiting up in the starting lineup, a guy named Damian Baugh, who I had never heard of because he's a 24 year old rookie in the starting lineup is pretty ugly right now. But it seems like they just have a worldview as opposed to being myopically centered on what is right in front of them that season.
- [19:01]
Rob Mahoney
It's true. I think ultimately, like I'm probably a little more bought in on Lamelo certainly than was is on the Lamelo experience, on what he can be as a player on the trajectory of his career. But even I have to admit there comes a point at which you have to ask yourself as an organization, are we the place that can curb his worst instincts as a player? Are we the place that can reign in the parts of him that are maybe like a little too wild and productively channel all the creativity in his game, all of his ability to set up teammates and even get to the basket? I thought a little bit more effectively this year. I like Lamelo a lot, but there's liking Lamelo and there's liking him as a future Hornet. And I think there's reason, there's, there's fair reason to kind of split the difference on those things sometimes.
- [19:39]
Justin Varier
Yeah, I don't understand really why they're so ready to do so. I guess maybe the day to day experience just might be so tough to deal with just because he is so loosey goosey about everything that like trying to get him and be a professional is probably taxing on an organization which is all fucking Luka Doncic get traded for the exact same reasons.
- [19:58]
Rob Mahoney
And that went so well.
- [20:00]
Justin Varier
But I just see unless, like, they draft somebody that is going to step on Lamelo's specific role on the team, I don't see why he can't be as much a part of this future as Miller or even Bridges or whoever you bring in.
- [20:12]
Big Waz Woz
So I don't think we're going to talk about the Miami Heat today, right?
- [20:16]
Justin Varier
No, not right now.
- [20:19]
Rob Mahoney
Honestly, they're on pace for it.
- [20:20]
Big Waz Woz
They've.
- [20:21]
Rob Mahoney
They've really been sliding.
- [20:22]
Big Waz Woz
We're not going to talk about them, too. But, like, I think, because it's funny how the league works and politics work.
- [20:28]
Justin Varier
Right?
- [20:28]
Big Waz Woz
Like, the Heat went out of their way to be like, the real Heat culture guy that represents us. Is Bam out of bio. Not Jimmy. Like, which was implicitly saying not Jimmy Butler. And I think if Lamelo ball had the sort of professional aura and reputation that Bam had, they'd be loathe to move on from him. He doesn't have that feel to his approach. And so I'm not mad at a Hornets organization and a GM that came in just last year. Okay. He got hired in 2024. Being like, you know what? I don't think I want to stake the future of my employment here on this kid. I'm not sold. I'd probably like to move on. I don't blame the guy for that.
- [21:17]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, kick the tires, see what's out there. Yeah. I don't think Lamelo is the kind of player who's so good you have to be overly precious about the idea of even talking about it. So, like, see what. See what's there to investigate.
- [21:29]
Justin Varier
Yeah. Rob, did you have anything nice you want to say about the Hornets?
- [21:33]
Rob Mahoney
Of course I do. I mean, you guys are living in the future in Lamello. Ball trade rumors and the possibility of what could be. I'm here in the present. I am living and dying with Moussa Diabate. Just trying. Shit, let's go. Just doing stuff out there.
- [21:46]
Big Waz Woz
The expansion draft guy. Right, I see.
- [21:50]
Rob Mahoney
Did we talk about him in the expansion draft? I can't even.
- [21:52]
Justin Varier
I think we didn't pick him. In fact, like, he was on the short list to be picked.
- [21:56]
Rob Mahoney
Yes. I mean, I've had a whole journey with him and I. These are the kinds of players I find myself gravitating towards, where you see them at certain stages of their career. I was monitoring him with the Clippers. Nothing he did really jumped out to me, per se. Was watching him earlier this season with the Hornets. I'm like, why is this guy getting as many minutes as he is, even with all their injury, like their injury trouble, specifically in the front Court.
- [22:17]
Big Waz Woz
He's 23, Rob. The clock is ticking on this kid.
- [22:20]
Rob Mahoney
The clock is ticking, but he's growing on me and he's really grown on me this year in a couple of different ways. One, he's just the kind of energy big who can come into a game and just like change a run with rebounding and effort alone. Those guys are always going to have a place in the league. But what's great about a team like the Hornets is they have very little to play for. And guys like Moussa Diabate can let their freak flag fly and all of a sudden he's just throwing passes he shouldn't throw. He's putting up hook shots from like a little bit of an irresponsible range, frankly. He's like trying things that are exciting to me as someone who's watching his future. If he is just energy big who can pull down some boards, that player has a very clear ceiling, a very clear cap on what he can be to a good NBA team. If Musa Diabate has anything in him that's a little bit more audacious than that, and I kind of think that he might, then all of a sudden you're getting somewhere. And so shout out to Moussa Diabate, who got converted from a two way into an actual contract this season, who's played overall quite good basketball for a team that doesn't give him much reason to do it. I have been impressed, Rob.
- [23:19]
Justin Varier
I'm not too proud to admit that I clocked your Musa Diabate skepticism earlier this season. And I thought to myself, that's a little disappointing because I saw the vision with Diabate. He just plays so fucking hard.
- [23:32]
Rob Mahoney
He does.
- [23:32]
Justin Varier
And that, especially if you're going to be a bench player, is such a skill. He plays so hard that he makes an impact on the game. You can't miss him because he's just going everywhere and he does have good feelings and he just makes things happen. That's the exact type of guy a team like the Hornets or any team frankly just needs in the course of a trudging through a regular season that is way too long. He like, he makes an impact in that regard. Now, did he get a new contract because Mark Williams was supposed to be traded and he was supposed to maybe play a little bit more than he has right now? Maybe. Why is he still playing behind Yusuf Nurkic, who was actively trying to fight their opponent the other day and was just like starting shit for no other reason that I think he just has a lot of pent up anger to get out, I have no idea. But I like the abate. I think he plays, plays a clear role and I think he's going to be the type of guy that has like a seven year career because he keeps doing this for a bunch of different teams.
- [24:21]
Rob Mahoney
He really does. I mean, the good news is that Yousef Nurkic is not always ahead of him anymore. So we're going to take what we can get, you know, and as far as Mark Williams goes, look, the reason the trade was vetoed was because he's not very reliably healthy, which makes someone like Musa Diabate all the more valuable to have.
- [24:38]
Justin Varier
This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Basketball fans know that a great assist can change the game. And there's no greater assist than one from State Farm. State Farm is here to help you navigate the right coverage for your home car and more like a good neighbor. State Farm is there. State Farm, Bloomington, Illinois. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability and eligibility vary by state. All right, let's move along to the Philadelphia 76ers.
- [25:08]
Rob Mahoney
Can I guess that the Sixers might be the 1 team on this list in which we all have the same thing?
- [25:14]
Big Waz Woz
Quentin Grimes.
- [25:16]
Rob Mahoney
See, I also have Quentin Grimes. Justin, do you have Quentin Grimes?
- [25:18]
Justin Varier
I do, as part of a broader point, but yes.
- [25:21]
Big Waz Woz
Okay, yes, it's Quentin Grimes, man. Finally our devotion to this guy's two year summer league dominance is paying off. Look, this guy got ran out of town in New York. Word on the street is he had issues with a couple of guys in that locker room. You know, whatever, we won't get into that. Jason Kidd ran him out of town. Detroit ran him out of town. It's like, bruh, like three straight teams. Just like, yeah, I'm good on this kid. And he ends up in Philadelphia and lo and behold, he's showing himself to be a player. And we get it. It's March basketball. Like, we've seen a lot of hall of Famers in March turn into never wases the rest of their careers like this. This is notorious time of the NBA calendar for wacky, goofy stuff to happen. But man, I'm proud to see like in a position where the Sixers have basically made it that we don't have anything else to play for, that Quentin Grimes is playing with some damn pride. I love that. And I know people at home gonna be like, oh, he's a professional, gets paid millions of dollars, man. Are you watching the rest of these teams in March, some of the craziness that these coaches and GMs are pulling lineup wise and all of that, like they're sending a message that yo, yes, our season has been cooked. There's nothing to do or see here anymore. Quentin Grimes is not treating it that way and I'm happy for him.
- [26:53]
Rob Mahoney
I would say the Sixers especially, which Grimes aside, have built kind of a perfect tank machine here to the point that they played this game against the Thunder on Wednesday. Shay did not play. Jalen Williams did not play. Isaiah Hardenstein did not play. Lou Dork, Case and Wallace all did not play. And you may note that if the Sixers do have to give up their pick because they win too many games, it goes to the Oklahoma City Thunder. Guess what happened? The Thunder beat the Sixers by 33 points because this team cannot win games. The Sixers are 3 and 17 in their last 20. But in the process of losing. Look, Quinn Grimes has been undeniable. He's been awesome and he's been awesome. I like not to toot our own horn too much, but I would say the group chat podcast has been on the forefront of saying Quinn Grimes has a little shake to his game, has a little juice off the dribble, has more to contribute in a way that.
- [27:39]
Big Waz Woz
Than just three and D stuff that.
- [27:41]
Rob Mahoney
Sounds, Look, Heywood Highsmith could never, you know, Quentin Grimes can step in and get buckets and create things for a team that right now doesn't have a lot of creation going for it.
- [27:50]
Justin Varier
17 games with the Philadelphia 76ers, averaging 21.4 points per game over the past 10 games. So all in March, 29, 6 and 5 with 54, 4170 shooting splits. You're right, we have been on this very early and maybe he is like something of a guard version of Christian Wood because it sounds like not a cool hang.
- [28:10]
Rob Mahoney
Don't say that.
- [28:11]
Justin Varier
Well, at the very, very least, I don't think he's getting invited to a lot of post game parties with whatever team he's on. But if he's going to shoot this well, I don't think it really matters. There's just that was the difference between him and Cale Martin when they made the trade with the Mavericks. It's just the shot talent is there and frankly if you're the Mavs, you get rid of Luka, you want to distribute some of the ball handling duties or maybe hope that like guys can unearth a little bit more of that from your supplemental guys. Grimes was the perfect candidate to do that because we had clocked that early on. I remember seeing him in a game in Portland, I was like, this guy could run just like, you know, end of the shot clock, just run a little self creation sort of stuff. And he's the type of guy that, like, I think he could do that a little bit more with the Sixers, especially if Ball George is going to be so limited and he's been great for them. I think he's a really good find and he's the type of guy that can move forward with for that team. He play with a bunch of Jared Butlers or he could play next to Embiid and Tyrese Maxey just as easily.
- [29:01]
Rob Mahoney
Totally. And shout out to him he's going to be restricted free agent this summer, is in line to make even a little bit more money than he might have otherwise. And that was really the sole reason that the Mavs would trade him for Caleb Martin, is that Caleb Martin was under contract. Otherwise, I cannot tell you a single thing that Caleb Martin does better on a basketball court than Quentin Grimes does. And that seems like a problem for Dallas. But. But Philly is making hay with it.
- [29:23]
Big Waz Woz
Quinn Grimes might be in line for some full mid level activity here.
- [29:29]
Rob Mahoney
You know, he could be fishing around with some good winning teams. Absolutely.
- [29:34]
Big Waz Woz
And the Sixers, you gotta, you know, their guard rotation, Maxi, Grimes, McCain, this is something, it's nice, it's something to be cheery about. Also, last but not least, a little birdie told me Podcast P is coming back.
- [29:52]
Rob Mahoney
They're no longer vying for a championship.
- [29:54]
Big Waz Woz
So season is over and so the podcast will be back. So another thing for Sixes fans to be happy about, y'all, he's no longer.
- [30:03]
Justin Varier
Dedicated to his chase for a championship this season, which I believe is explicitly what he said when he decided to shut down the podcast. And then like, what happened? It was like two weeks went by and he's like, oh, well, I got a hangnail. I gotta go. Because he wasn't too dedicated to his craft. But I have to say, after he was shut down for the season, the Sixers really rolled out the tank again that game against the Houston Rockets. And I have to say, this is, this is my one nice thing. In addition to Grimes looking like legitimate part of this team going forward is that they were fun and watchable in a way that they haven't been since last season, honestly, maybe even early on last season when Embiid was healthy and playing, because they rolled out Grimes, Jared Butler, Counsel Edwards and Brissette. I think Brissette was functionally the center of this lineup, okay? And they just played with just, like, this mad energy, and they actually blew the doors off off the Rockets to the point where they were leading that game healthily for a long amount of time, but then they still came back lost in overtime and still got the loss. So the tank is still going. I think that's the perfect. What you want, if you're a Philly fan, you just want these young guys to play hard, give us something to watch, and still lose so we can get a draft pick. So, honestly, I think this is the best part of the Sixers season. If you're a Sixers fan, now is the time to really plug in.
- [31:20]
Rob Mahoney
Well, the expectations are gone. You're not living and dying with every Joel Embiid health update. You're not even having to be, like, hypercritical of whether Tyrese Maxey can carry the load without this or that guy out of the lineup, right? It's just like, hey, we have Chumo Kiki.
- [31:33]
Big Waz Woz
Now.
- [31:33]
Rob Mahoney
Let's let. Let's enjoy the ride while we can. Let's see guys playing hard. Let's see the Quentin Grimes types pop. Let's. Let's regress our season to a point of finding hope versus diminishing it. And that's. That's always a better thing as a fan experience.
- [31:45]
Big Waz Woz
Also, Daryl Morey is using AI to figure out when and when. When and where to play Paul George and Joel Embiid on their bum knees. So, you know, the Sixers, they're at the forefront and cutting edge of AI technology and sports, guys. So another thing for Sixers fans to, you know, hang their hat on.
- [32:04]
Justin Varier
Did you guys listen to that, like, full interview? He did. Sloan. It was feeling very CCTV police state because although, like, the information will help teams make decisions, it was also like, we're gonna watch guys as they shoot free throws and try to determine whether or not, like, they might have, like, something in their functional movements that might lead to injuries down the road. Like, we're getting to Minority Report in basketball pretty quickly. It was kind of scary.
- [32:30]
Rob Mahoney
Teams have been on that stuff, like, the wearable tech, you know, optical tracking.
- [32:35]
Big Waz Woz
Fight that at first.
- [32:36]
Rob Mahoney
Oh, for sure. For good reason. I think when you're talking about, like.
- [32:40]
Big Waz Woz
Privacy of your medical information, like, and to use it preemptively, DNA type of thing. It's ugly.
- [32:48]
Rob Mahoney
Like, it's. It's one thing if you're using it for. To establish, like, treatment or rehab methods after an injury when you're minority reporting. This shit and saying we're not going to pay you because we think based on your physical makeup you're not going to get hurt.
- [32:59]
Big Waz Woz
And here's, and here's, here's why. It's nonsense and bleak. They're never gonna see a positive indicator in your meds and be like your medical write up and be like, you know, we should pay you more because you got this dope genetic thing happening. Let's pay. Never would they do that. Of course, it would only ever be used to stiff you for money.
- [33:19]
Justin Varier
You can't tell the clutch gene from AI is what you're saying.
- [33:23]
Rob Mahoney
Honestly, the AI might be the one way you can tell the clutch gene.
- [33:26]
Justin Varier
Yeah, I think this is the whole advantage to tanking, though. Like they're cycling through. The Sixers are just a bunch of young guys. Let's see if they could play. If not, no big deal. This episode is brought to you by Hyundai. Hyundai knows the road could be a little hectic at the best of times. But just like a great player anticipates the next move on the court, Hyundai helps you anticipate the unexpected on the road. They're available class exclusive advanced safety features like forward collision avoidance assist and blind spot view monitor work to protect you on every drive. Learn more about hyundai@hyundai USA.com Call 562-314-4603 for complete details.
- [34:09]
Big Waz Woz
This episode is brought to you by the Home Depot. It's starting to look like spring.
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Justin Varier
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- [34:36]
Rob Mahoney
Out naked was a negative.
- [34:38]
Justin Varier
Grocery shopping in the nude, a big no no. Sunday service in the buff, a desk.
- [34:47]
Rob Mahoney
Service and naked in the garage. Just odd. Turn naked into a net positive with.
- [34:54]
Justin Varier
Buck naked underwear and feel like wearing.
- [34:58]
Rob Mahoney
Nothing at all anywhere.
- [35:00]
Justin Varier
Get buck naked at your Duluth trading store. Rob, are you a, are you Jared Butler guy?
- [35:05]
Rob Mahoney
I am a Jared Butler guy. I'm certainly more of a Jared Butler guy than I am like a Jalen Hood Schiffino guy. If we're, if we're picking favorites, he stinks.
- [35:13]
Justin Varier
But Butler, I've been a little bit more mixed on. Can you give me like the elevator pitch on Butler?
- [35:17]
Rob Mahoney
Well, what have you, what have you been down on or conflicted About.
- [35:20]
Justin Varier
He reminds me a little too much of like a Tyrese Martin where it's just like, he's not much of an athlete. And I think he's just like a guy that is enough of a ball handler in to get you by some of these terrible march games. But I just don't know how he scales to, like, high level basketball.
- [35:37]
Rob Mahoney
I don't know that he will. I think he's always going to be one of these guys whose equity in the league depends on him being a bit of a try hard. Like, he has to get after it and has to work pretty hard to create everything that he gets. But he has one of, like, enough of a funky tweener sort of game where I find myself believing in it. I find myself believing in kind of the. The intensity of his defense at times. I don't think he's ever going to be like a great lead ball handler, even for a second unit. He's always going to rely on secondary playmakers on the wing or as bigs. But as far as a guy who can come in and sop up minutes and give you good effort, like a commitment to running actual stuff and reliable defense, that's not bad for a backup guard.
- [36:15]
Justin Varier
Yeah. Almost like a Dennis Schroeder light. Light.
- [36:18]
Rob Mahoney
That would be a great trajectory for. For someone like him.
- [36:21]
Justin Varier
Yeah. All right, let's move along to the next team on the list. The Brooklyn Nets, who despite themselves, still keep finding themselves freaking games. I was watching them against the Boston Celtics, who I don't think had Tatum or Brown the other day, but they were still feisty. They should have probably won that game. Unless Baylor Shireman just shot above his head like he was in the NCAA tournament. Again, that's kind of my one nice thing. It just seems pretty clearly that Jody Fernandez is. Is a guy. I know.
- [36:48]
Rob Mahoney
Are we all Jordy Fernandez?
- [36:49]
Big Waz Woz
Yeah, Jordy Fernandez. He's a guy.
- [36:52]
Rob Mahoney
Group chat in full alignment today.
- [36:53]
Big Waz Woz
He. It reminds me of the Will Hardy thing very early on in Utah where these teams just shouldn't have been competing. I mean, the freaking WEMBY draft where these guys just, like, had every incentive to tank. And Will Hardy, because he's a freaking competitive maniac, was just like, over my dead body. And they basically won their way into being completely out of the WIMBY sweepstakes. But I think Jordy Fernandez similarly is just like, he's just a good coach and he gets these guys to play hard.
- [37:29]
Rob Mahoney
Yes.
- [37:30]
Big Waz Woz
Every single game, you know, we've had, I've had a lot of praise For JJ Redick this year, right? Like that. He's gotten the Lakers specifically on defense. These guys are trying at a level that they just didn't for Darvin Ham. Whatever the hell it is that JJ has, he's inspiring it from his team. And it feels like Jordy Fernandez is doing that same thing. He's got that same quality to get these guys to believe in the sort of relevance of what they're doing on a day to day for a team that's going nowhere fast. And I think that's quite impressive, man. Like it's bigger than the X's and O's or what minutes, the rotations and who's he staggering and what's his atos and blah blah blah. All of that stuff matters too, and it has its place. But getting people to buy in and believe that you know what you're doing and going out and executing for a coach, I'm blown away by that man. So shouts to Jordy Hernandez for that.
- [38:29]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, yeah, Jordy has done a great job. I think they are the perfect amount of competitive. They're. They are so good that at a certain point in the season we had.
- [38:37]
Big Waz Woz
To stop and ask Hernandez, sorry I said Hernandez.
- [38:40]
Rob Mahoney
I didn't want, I didn't want to check you was. But sometimes we got it. Look, you circled back. You made it right.
- [38:45]
Big Waz Woz
Yeah.
- [38:46]
Rob Mahoney
They reached the point in the season where we had to stop and ask are they winning too many games? And then since then they've lost a bunch of games because they simply do not have the one thing that you cannot fake in the NBA, which is shot creation. They don't have it. They, they imported DLO to just like kind of get by. And otherwise it's a bunch of players who are not quite equipped for the roles that they're playing offensively doing their damnedest on a nightly basis to make it work, to move the ball, to keep things fluid, to find other ways to score. But ultimately they're just like an overachieving defense that is playing above its head and can hang even in games. As you're saying, Justin, where yeah, opposing stars might be out, but good veteran teams that should be able to put them away easily just can't. And that's where you want to be at this point in the curve.
- [39:27]
Justin Varier
They had to abandon ship on just useful veterans like Dorian, Finney, Smith for a bunch of second round picks, Dennis Schroeder just because they were winning too much, in part because Fernandez had established enough of a culture, enough of like a try hard attitude that These guys were legitimately like threatening for the six seed at a certain point. And so that's a credit to him. I just think like you'll hear this a lot as we talk about some of these teams. If you're in this position, if you're playing for the future, what you want is organizational stability. Not just in the front office but also in the coaching staff because that's one of the few places a lot of these small markets, I know Brooklyn isn't one of them, but sometimes they act like it just because historically they haven't been on the same par as their friends in msg. I think you want to have an advantage on the coaching staff for guys who want to play for that guy, but also be able to coach them up and find guys and bring things out of guys that they hadn't really found otherwise. I think if you were to knock the net, I think at this point a lot of some of the projects they have on their roster, some of the bets that they've made, they've been fine. Like I was ready for the Zaire Williams like revival tour.
- [40:29]
Rob Mahoney
It's kind of happening.
- [40:30]
Justin Varier
He's like, fine.
- [40:31]
Rob Mahoney
Like I'm not, I'm not going to be the one to say it because I am out. I've abandoned that particular ship. But Zara Williams is having the best basketball season of his career. That's just a fact. And we're putting it out there, there.
- [40:44]
Justin Varier
There are levels to this for sure. Could he be an NBA player? Yes. He doesn't look like a complete catastrophe at this point. Is he going to be a high level starting caliber wing who's going to be 3 and D type? I don't think so. He's just like, he's so toolsy. He's so toolsy though. You're right. Like he's so long and athletic. You're like, God damn. If he just clicks into place, this guy is, is someone we're going to want around for a while. But like Keon Johnson, Tire Williams, they're fine. They're fine. And so they don't, they haven't gotten to the Jared Allens. They haven't found their future D'Angelo rusters. Yes, they're Spencer Dinwiddies at this point. So, so they're, they're probably on an earlier step of the process, but I think you have to like what they have at the very least in the organizational, institutional side of things.
- [41:22]
Rob Mahoney
Well, that's the differentiating point from the like Kenny Atkinson era for example, is, is those Exact prospects, right? Like, they're finding guys who are not quite diamonds in the rough, but enough of a. Enough of a precious stone that you can dust them off a little bit and throw them out there and they're worth something. Like, they're finding actual NBA talent from picks and castoffs and second draft guys that other teams didn't really want anymore. And they're using them to play good competitive minutes. Are those prospects so good you're going to bank the future of the Nets on them? Overall? Probably not. They're waiting for those guys. And this is one of those areas where the Nets really did kind of have to be bad this year. Like these next two drafts are going to be really important for them to have some kind of decent pick to import real potential star talent. And so they are. They are equipped and they're well positioned to take a swing on somebody they think can really elevate their team. Given everything else that's working structurally in terms of coaching, in terms of preparation, I think that's a pretty good formula for a team at this stage.
- [42:20]
Justin Varier
I still like Cam Johnson. If he's just going to stick around, he's going to fit whatever version of the team they are. Nick Claxton, I guess Cam Thomas still plays basketball. Takes a lot of shots. Well, he plays basketball sometimes he hasn't.
- [42:33]
Big Waz Woz
Played for a while. I think that's going to be interesting as the Nets probably being the only team that could pay him big money. Like, will they?
- [42:43]
Rob Mahoney
I don't think so.
- [42:45]
Justin Varier
I don't know what teams have the mid level available. Just because the CBA is so complicated at this point, we don't have that in front of us. But like, so if the team like.
- [42:52]
Big Waz Woz
The magic, like 16 million or how much is that at this point?
- [42:56]
Justin Varier
Somewhere. Somewhere around there. I think if you're a team like the Magic and you're. You're prone or you're against like taking bigger swings. For an Anthony Simons, could you import Cam Thomas just to steady, like your bench units? I could see something like that happening. He's a useful player. I. I just think he's much more useful to a team that already has aspirations and already has your tent poles in place, rather than a team like the Nets where he's above and beyond the. The number one guy.
- [43:20]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, I. He did improve this season in the spirit of saying one nice thing, like not my taste in players, so I'm gonna mostly abstain. But I do think he improved. I do think he is of use to, as you say, Justin Someone who has like a little bit more structure already established and he is sliding into fit a role versus helping you build the identity of what you, you know the future of your team is going to be. That's not really what Cam Thomas is about. That guy's going to go in and get buckets and he can generate one on one offense as consistently as any like player of his ilk in the league. Like the sub star class. He's very good at it. Other than that, I'm looking around this team and I'm seeing a lot of guys who like you could use as kind of a cornerstone of your organization. You could have slotted in as a fourth or fifth starter on the next really good Nets team. But overall just a lot of guys who can play, you know, like I, I, every time the Nets come up we'll mention Trend and Watford because I think he is actually a good player. I think he is actually hiding in plain sight here. Someone should scoop him up. If not the Nets locking him into a long term deal.
- [44:17]
Justin Varier
You hear that day Ron Sharp, get the fuck out of the way. So Waffer can cook.
- [44:21]
Rob Mahoney
That's not what I said. Daron Sharp. I also like Daron Sharp.
- [44:24]
Justin Varier
For the record. He's pretty good dude. Nets also doing the work. You know there are a lot of teams on these lists as we talk about this in the west next week that the teams that have decided we're going to be absolute shit and we're going to bottom the fuck out of this season just so we could have a better chance at some of the top prospects in this draft because it's not just flag looks like it's going to be like the top four guys could really do something for your franchise.
- [44:47]
Rob Mahoney
There's a clearance about it wasn't. I know all about the draft now.
- [44:50]
Big Waz Woz
Oh yeah, we're gurus now, kid. I'm all in. Next D. Rose.
- [44:56]
Justin Varier
Yeah, we're finding the McNeely tape.
- [44:57]
Rob Mahoney
We're still referring to them as the Baylor kid, the Russian guy. Like a little bit of that.
- [45:02]
Big Waz Woz
Duke.
- [45:02]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But we're getting there. Kyle's. Kyle's coaching us up.
- [45:06]
Justin Varier
Okay. I only know the one white guy on Duke, so I haven't gotten to the other white guy. So yeah, I can't wait to top.
- [45:12]
Big Waz Woz
10 Duke White guys.
- [45:13]
Justin Varier
Okay.
- [45:14]
Big Waz Woz
When's the last time that happened? Two white guys from Duke drafted in the top 10. We gotta look that up.
- [45:19]
Justin Varier
I don't know.
- [45:20]
Rob Mahoney
You know what I was stunned about? This is a little bit of random draft trivia. While we're talking about bad teams, who was the last All Star level player to come out of North Carolina? UNC or the state unc. The. The institution? Because I was thinking about the Duke UNC rivalry and of course it's as you know, it's still quite fervent, still quite frothy. But let's just say that Duke has had quite a more successful recent track record in terms of NBA prospects, which you probably know even if you haven't.
- [45:48]
Big Waz Woz
Like internalized Rashad McKinnon. Giants were not all star level. Neither was it Sean Williams who was like the second pick.
- [45:54]
Rob Mahoney
You think Sean May made an all star team?
- [45:57]
Justin Varier
Marvin Williams didn't make an all star team.
- [45:58]
Rob Mahoney
He somehow did not though. Shout out to Marvin Williams really made a career for himself.
- [46:03]
Big Waz Woz
Damn all star unc. It might be Vince Carter.
- [46:07]
Rob Mahoney
It was Vince Carter and Antoine Jameson. Those are the last UNC All Stars. Is that not nuts?
- [46:13]
Justin Varier
Is that like what 2001 was?
- [46:15]
Big Waz Woz
The next Kobe, which tough.
- [46:17]
Justin Varier
That's crazy. Wow. Well, the Nets are definitely in contrast in that regard, putting themselves in position for the next Antoine Jameson. Then the team we're going to talk about next, which is like almost despite itself, stumbling into wins, especially lately that we're talking about the Toronto Raptors, who find themselves in 11th right now, riding the highs of their recent performance, 6 and 3 in March. Unfortunately, they just so happen to be playing the worst, easiest schedule in the league. So within that stretch they have played Orlando twice, Utah twice, Washington twice, Philadelphia, Phoenix in the Portland Trailblazers. So they are currently in that stretch in March, fifth in the NBA on defense. And so you can say one nice thing about them, that the defense finally clicking. Unfortunately they have played some of the worst offenses in recent NBA history. I would say considering that like a lot of these teams are also mid game tanking as we described with the Wizards, but fifth on defense. That's nice.
- [47:16]
Rob Mahoney
I think it's bigger than that. I think their defensive success, and this is my one nice thing as well, is that this is a good defensive team that just because of circumstantial reasons has not been allowed to be a good defensive team this season. Barnes, Baird and Quickley have barely played together. They've had guys in and out of the lineup all season. For context, those are. Those are the Raptors three best players easily. They have played about the same number of minutes together that Steph Draymond and Jimmy Butler have. And Jimmy Butler became a warrior six weeks ago. So so far they just have not had a Chance to be the Raptors that they're going to be. And even putting the star and their best players aside and whatever Brandon Ingram is going to be for the next year. Jakob Hurdle, Scotty Barnes, quickly, that to me is three levels of quality defense in a way that gives you something to actually build around. It gives you a real shot to compete on nightly basis, which frankly the Raptors do even now, even though they're not actually going to challenge for the play in. But, but they, they hang in a lot of these games that they really should not. I just think this is going to be a good defensive team next year. I'm not saying they're going to be top 10, but I think they're going to be really competent in a way that would surprise you given their relative standing now.
- [48:19]
Big Waz Woz
And Brandon Ingram's going to be cool playing hard defense, rarely getting the ball.
- [48:24]
Rob Mahoney
That's no. But, but I would say Scotty Barnes this year has had such a meaningful evolution in terms of his defense that he looks like he's going to be an actual difference maker. And so if you're going to rationalize the Brandon Ingram thing, by the way.
- [48:38]
Big Waz Woz
He'S had this defensive reputation with none of the results for his whole career.
- [48:43]
Rob Mahoney
I totally agree with you. I think last year between, between the effort, between some of his instincts, it just really wasn't quite there in terms of what he was bringing to the table defensively. But if you're going to wrap your head around Brandon Ingram as a Raptor, I think it is somewhat dependent on the fact that Scotty's been much better defending wings, defending across positions, denying people, I think making better use and understanding how to use his, like how to use his length more effectively as a, as a wing. Right. How to deny, how to crowd scores, how to, how to use those assets like proactively versus just reactively. He's starting to play like a more established and more veteran defensive player in a way that makes it a little easier to live with that Brandon Ingram might not be doing those same things.
- [49:25]
Justin Varier
Well, you said that they might not contend for a play in spot this year and I agree that if you look at the standings right now they are five games behind the Miami Heat. But as I read today on ESPN.com According to BPI, they're like projection system which I don't believe uses Minority Report AI or maybe it does and we just don't know they are actually Projected to finish 8th.
- [49:47]
Rob Mahoney
Are they really? Well, I think that he'd have lost 10 of 11 games so they've been awful.
- [49:53]
Justin Varier
It's been really offenses putrid, like watching. Please don't have them go against the Magic in a playing game because that is going to have the Jimmy Butler.
- [50:02]
Big Waz Woz
Because they didn't want to pay him for Andrew Wiggins and a pick in the 20s.
- [50:07]
Justin Varier
I think it might have been because he was basically like throwing a mosh pit like in the middle of their locker room raging to pay him.
- [50:16]
Big Waz Woz
That's a little ball, literally what they did. Yeah, that's incompetence. But whatever, Jimmy.
- [50:22]
Rob Mahoney
But you call it incompetence, we call it culture was. That's just, this is just how they end.
- [50:26]
Big Waz Woz
That guy is motivated. He is very good. I don't have anything positive to say.
- [50:35]
Rob Mahoney
No, no. You have to find. We are not letting you off this podcast until you say something nice.
- [50:41]
Big Waz Woz
And here's why, here's why. They have a GM who's apparently, apparently unfirable and therefore will do what he wants. Like literally can behave as if the raptors have a 20 year Runway because he can't get fired. And like the team, the roster construction makes no sense. I, look, I love iq. I've loved him since the days of the Knicks when Tibbs was paying. Playing him like 30 minutes a game as a rookie. You know, the guy has a high motor, really positive dude, all of that stuff. I love iq. RJ has kind of disappointed me in his trajectory. I thought he would be a better defensive player, to be quite honest with you guys, than what he's shown. Is this kind of like one sided, one handed offensive type of player play. Make every now and again. Whatever. Brandon Ingram.
- [51:38]
Rob Mahoney
Better than that. That, that's, that's, that's, I, I, I don't agree with that characterization. I think RJ has had a nice step forward this year when he's been healthy. It's just been fits and starts.
- [51:48]
Big Waz Woz
Okay, cool. He's been better.
- [51:50]
Rob Mahoney
Cool.
- [51:52]
Big Waz Woz
What, like, what, what is the, the, the identity of this team? You think this is going to be a defensive juggernaut next season?
- [51:58]
Rob Mahoney
I'm not saying they're going to be a defensive juggernaut. Like they have a, Isn't that what.
- [52:02]
Big Waz Woz
They have to be though, to be credible?
- [52:05]
Rob Mahoney
I think the hope is don't they.
- [52:06]
Big Waz Woz
Have to be like a Houston Rockets type of dynamic defense because they're not going to score on people?
- [52:12]
Rob Mahoney
I think yeah, they're probably destined to wind up in the like 22 to 15 range on offense next year. That, that might be a good outcome given some of the personnel considerations. But Defensively, I think they can be pretty good. And so, yeah, it's not quite Houston Rockets level, but they're not coming from a Houston Rockets base of talent like they have really. Scotty Barnes is a standout prospect. Other than that, it's a lot of guys that do have caveats on the roster ultimately. And so you have some good backline defense, you have some good pressure defense on the perimeter. You have the ability to give like something to hang your hat on, which is not something that a lot of lottery teams have right now. So many of these groups are searching and searching and searching, including the Raptors. And maybe they finally have something they can actually rely on.
- [52:56]
Big Waz Woz
So you're hanging your hat on that, huh?
- [52:58]
Rob Mahoney
I am.
- [52:59]
Big Waz Woz
It's a made in China Amazon product.
- [53:02]
Rob Mahoney
The rack might be falling apart.
- [53:06]
Justin Varier
Talking Teemu now. I also wonder if the defensive success is going to be a little compromised because right now they're getting by with a lot of role players in those spots, like the Jameson Battles. Our guy Mobo just going in there and wrecking shit.
- [53:20]
Rob Mahoney
Are you obligated to talk about Mobo after selecting him so high in the expansion draft, Justin?
- [53:25]
Justin Varier
I don't think even our audience can withstand more Mobo, Doc. So I think we have to give him a pass there. But like you're going to be importing some guys that might have have less of an effect defensively. Like, I mean, Brandon Ingram hasn't been a good defender for like time. Infinium, like, you know, like Grady Dick. How is he going to apply into that team? Is Jared RJ Barrett. Are they going to trade him or are they going to stick him in there? Because then you're probably playing quickly. Barrett, Ingram, Barnes and I guess Purdle, like, that's fine. That's a good defense. I don't know if it's elite level. No where that has to be their identity. But I will say this. My one nice thing is that I think Masai has so much of a track record that while I don't really see the vision for this team, I have found myself still giving it the benefit of the doubt or trying to process what exactly we're missing here because it is such a departure from the way teams typically build that I'm like wondering, does he see something that we don't? Is the like, is he doing Moneyball? But we just haven't like come to terms with it yet. I think you're right. Was. I think it's no. But like, I have to like, at the very least entertain the Prospect. Because it's such a departure from the way teams do things now.
- [54:30]
Big Waz Woz
No, we have these examples in other forms of business. It's almost like Monopoly power. When there's nothing you can do to lose, meaning there's nothing you could do for you to lose your position within the organization, to get fired. You're unfirable. So now you just do what you do. These skills, trying to win on the edges, these things atrophy. Like, it's over. You get fat and lazy like that. Like when you literally think you're building on a 10 year trajectory, you're thinking on like, sort of like the Chinese government, right? Like they always tell people, like, our decisions are made with a hundred years in the future in mind.
- [55:15]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, right.
- [55:16]
Big Waz Woz
Like that's, that's the way that they think, but they actually execute on.
- [55:19]
Rob Mahoney
They're thinking in eras, you know, they're not worried about next year. Year.
- [55:22]
Big Waz Woz
Exactly. Messiah Jerry, similarly, is not thinking about next year. He's, he's, he's, he's basically just like, I'm gonna slow play this until the perfect trade comes through. The perfect signing. Brandon Ingham. Give him three years. Whatever. We could probably move this if we really had to. Doesn't make a difference in anybody's life one way or the other. It's fine. Doesn't matter. We don't need to make huge differences. We're in no rush. We can sit and wait for the perfect move to happen. And that shit sounds cool on Reddit and on a message board like being a genius, you know, to, oh my God, look at the pick swaps. And that shit sounds great, but in reality, bro, we gonna be sitting here waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting for Toronto to shit or get off the pot.
- [56:10]
Rob Mahoney
Private equity was ready to scrap this thing to all. Hell, the agenda is strong again.
- [56:17]
Big Waz Woz
Again, I'm not somebody who's gonna look at what Pacers are doing right now, right, and say, oh, you're not as good as the Thunder. You don't have the Thunder trajectory. Tear that thing down. It's, it's terrible. No, the Pacers, I'm like, all right, I, I could see they got to the goddamn conference finals last year doing it the way that they're doing, right? Like there's a, there's a big difference between where the Pacers are, what they're doing. And you think the Raptors are about to be as good as the Pacers?
- [56:46]
Rob Mahoney
I think the Pacers might wind up the third seed in the Eastern Conference this year. And I need you Both to just prepare yourselves for that fact.
- [56:52]
Big Waz Woz
Okay. Are the Raptors anywhere near that right now?
- [56:55]
Rob Mahoney
No. No, no, no, no. They're not.
- [56:57]
Justin Varier
The Pacers like trajectory or close to the Pacers.
- [57:00]
Big Waz Woz
Guys, think about that.
- [57:02]
Rob Mahoney
Pacers are good.
- [57:03]
Justin Varier
I think we should start with getting into the play in before we start talking about the top of the East. What does China have to say about Jacoby Walter? Do you think he would fit into their business culture? I like Jacoby Walter.
- [57:14]
Big Waz Woz
I wonder what his social score would be be if you move to China.
- [57:22]
Justin Varier
Rob, what do you think about Jacoby Walter?
- [57:24]
Rob Mahoney
I don't. I honestly I cannot pretend to have a strongly founded opinion about Jacoby Walter. I'm mostly just disappointed in was and maybe this is a statement on Grady Dick season and the way it has kind of spiraled out of control, but you couldn't even find a nice thing to say about Grady Dick or a nice pun.
- [57:38]
Big Waz Woz
It started off with a spark. I was kind of. I was excited about what Grady Dick was doing but.
- [57:42]
Rob Mahoney
But we were on board.
- [57:45]
Justin Varier
Well, since since was didn't have something nice to say, I actually asked the asked the guest to provide one. I asked our friend Danny Chow, current Torontonian representative of the Great White north on our staff and he messaged back. They let a hometown kid go off for 32 and 28 in back to back games in front of his family and friends. That's the one nice thing. Yeah. A.J. lawson, 32, 28. But he seemed to be disarrayed or dismayed that they have kind of lost track of their tank as the season has gone on.
- [58:20]
Rob Mahoney
That is a shame. But as you said, the schedule positioned them that way. Like this was actually identified a couple months ago that the Raptors were basically going to decide the tank race for every team in the running because of this stretch of their schedule. Now that we are here, it's not surprising that they're accidentally winning a bunch of games. Like they're. They're trying to rest competent players and they're still winning some of them. So that's just what it's going to be.
- [58:41]
Justin Varier
Yeah. All right, let's wrap it there. We'll get to the second half of this. This the Western Conference next week on Thursday. But we'll be back on Monday. Thank you to Isaiah Blakely. Thank you to Ben Cruz. We'll talk to you next time.