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The Ringer NBA Show
Say One Nice Thing … About the East’s Tanktastic Bottom Five. Plus, UConn Shocks the World (Again)! | Group Chat
01:25:39
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- [00:00]
Sponsor/Ad Reader
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- [01:21]
Justin Varior
Hello and welcome to Group Chat. I am Justin Varior, and joining me is the committee for the Dweeb Rock hall of Fame, Rob Mahoney. J. Kyle. Man, guys, we got a lot to talk about here, but I have to start with your podcast. Last week, I think the nadir of this podcast, which has been going for many, many years, at this point, was one of you dweebs asking the other dweeb, should we do one collective Mount Rushmore for the aughts in drock, and the other one being like, no, I think we got to have separate ones.
- [01:54]
Rob Mahoney
It's okay if you're jealous, Justin. I understand.
- [01:57]
J. Kyle
Wanted to be a part of it.
- [01:58]
Rob Mahoney
You couldn't. You. You begged us to come on that pod during your week off just to debate the indie rock Mount Rushmore. But I'm sorry, you just weren't invited.
- [02:07]
Justin Varior
It was a tough scene,
- [02:10]
J. Kyle
right? Yeah. Okay.
- [02:12]
Justin Varior
There's another one I want to talk about later on, but we have to start at the pinnacle of sports achievement because we were just already.
- [02:20]
J. Kyle
You were just already firing, like, I. I was like shaking my head, laughing. Like, his energy, even in the intro, you could just hear it. People that listen to this show, you can just hear it. You get on here and this. This effing guy with his hat. Go ahead, Justin. Go ahead, go ahead.
- [02:34]
Justin Varior
I have the energy of a champion, as you could see written across my hat, because whenever UConn does something I wear the hat, baby. The 99 title, Final Four hat. We have it on today. Not because UConn won a title, as Rob is so used to at this point.
- [02:49]
J. Kyle
Having FML are the first three letters that come to mind for me. But continue.
- [02:53]
Justin Varior
Yeah, but we witnessed, man, I have to say, probably one of the greatest sports moments of my life and also probably one of the biggest shots I've ever witnessed, like Ray Allen move the ropes back was up there. That's like in its own separate category considering the stakes, especially with those two teams. But, man, the Braylon mullet and shot yesterday to practically ice Duke. Fucking Duke. Just the. My least favorite sports program in history. I am beaming right now.
- [03:26]
Rob Mahoney
Can we. Can we break down the percentages there, jv? Because, like, what percentage of your joy and exuberance is Yukon getting to the final four? What percentage is the sheer improbability of that shot? And what percentage is just that it's Duke on the receiving end.
- [03:40]
Justin Varior
I think it's all of it. Like, all of them are at 100. I just put the board all the way up on all the measures. What's crazy about this shot is that not only was the shot absolutely bonkers, like the shot itself, like deep three with 0.3 seconds left after Caribbean Band defers like that alone would be one of the biggest moments probably in my sporting life. But all of the events that led up to it were equally crazy. So they come back from 19 down. They got absolutely clobbered in the first half. Kind of what I expected from that game because Duke had the size that caused problems for UConn, Yukon had defense. I thought they might be able to stymie some of the boozer stuff, but overall, that first half, they got completely railroaded. Then they come back, right? So Caraban, who hasn't hit all game, hits a deep three in order to pull it within one. You had at the end there the Silas Demery missed free throw on the 1 and 1. And I was ready to complain at length about what a strategy following up three is in college because nobody can hit a goddamn free throw. And I was like, how do you combat that? Like, these guys are just going to keep missing. And so if you follow, it's almost like the game is over at that point. Then the Kaden boozer throwing it up for no goddamn reason. Just if he had even like 5% of the good genes from the boozers. But unfortunately, that guy is just the worst of all the qualities you could possibly. All right, I can't. The shot itself which, I mean, UConn had shot 1 for 18 earlier in the game from three, couldn't make a goddamn thing. Mullins has struggled this entire season, struggled this entire tournament to shoot despite the fact that he is indeed a shooter or should be at the next level. All of that. And then we've seen the clip today of Dan Hurley, a complete and utter psychopath, just rubbing his head on the referee. Yeah. For no reason. Just like he's celebrating, going nuts. Just makes a beine like, kind of like turns around and all of a sudden just decides to put his head into the referee. It's unbelievable. Everything is crazy.
- [05:51]
Rob Mahoney
The referee part in particular, honestly. The real hero of this game in this moment is the ref for not teeing up Dan Hurley and ruining and submarining what I would have to imagine is like, as you say, Justin, an all time sports moment, certainly an all time Yukon moment. How easily it could have all fallen apart with one gentle but aggressive forehead headbutt I don't even know how to describe. I've literally never seen anyone do that before in that situation.
- [06:19]
J. Kyle
He, Tate and I used to talk about this on OSP where we would say, I always would compare Dan Hurley to. What was Austin Butler's character in Dune 2. What was his name?
- [06:30]
Rob Mahoney
Fade.
- [06:30]
J. Kyle
Dan Hurley. I don't even remember. Is that right? Fade Ralph. I think that's right. Where he's like licking the knives.
- [06:35]
Justin Varior
Why don't you pull.
- [06:36]
Rob Mahoney
That's why I'm here.
- [06:38]
J. Kyle
He's a dork that needs two Mount Rushmores for Indy. No, I mean just the, the level of just intensity and craziness. It's like you just never know what Dan Hurley's going to do. I'm pretty sure that was Roger Ayers, the ref that Dan Hurley did it to. And if you don't follow college like, Ayers is one of the better officials at the college level. And I think there are a lot of guys, like, if he had done that to a guy, there's a guy, Teddy Valentine, who's like notoriously or Doug Schles is another. There's these guys who are just kind of hot headed, like they, they get in the limelight. Love a replay. You know those types. But Ayers is like, maybe Dan knew in that moment and he was just like, Ayers is the guy that. But Ayers is very good at like navigating those things. That was nuts. He's got his coat off. He's like, I just, man. I mean, Yukon during that game. I just think that like on the basketball side of it, you said a lot of things, Justin. I think we could unpack quickly here. It's just like Duke. Duke has crazy perimeter size, and they were very well prepared for the layers of the, like, Yukon run. Some of those beautiful action in college, like, it's very nuanced and layered and stuff like that. But Duke was switching a lot of it because they have like five, six, seven, six, eight guys who are. Are fast and rangy. And Yukon couldn't make a three. Caravan couldn't get it, get it going. But I was. I was saying that even the. The Caravan made three was huge. I thought one of the biggest moments of the game was just the freaking ice water that Caravan had. When that ball got deflected, he didn't. There was no panic in him. He was just like, okay, I'm not in a position to shoot this. He pitches it to Mullins. You know, you want somebody stepping in, whether or not it's from 40ft or wherever it is, it's a higher percentage shot. Mullins, yeah, just this. The presence of mind to make that play. And then Mullins, having not shot the ball well in a long time, bangs it. I mean, it's like one of the biggest. I don't know if it's up with like the latener shot in terms of like the narrative stakes of it, but I, like, I don't root for either one of those teams. And I jumped up and down like four times in a row. I did like high knees jumps right while I was making dinner just because I love basketball so much. But man, that was a crazy play.
- [08:37]
Justin Varior
Well, it was crazy, especially. Cause Caraban is the guy. Like, he's been there for, I think, four plus years. Cause I think he red shirted his first year. I. They were asking in the post game press conference about him to Hurley, and I think he's now won 16 tournament games, which I think puts him third behind Laitner and Bobby Hurley, Danny's brother. And so, like, he is the guy. You're right to the point where, like, Mullins, when he first gets the tip off of it, goes to Caravan specifically for that reason, but the bigger, better boozers right in front of them. And you're right to pass that out. I mean, I guess it's the right play, but considering that Mullens just hadn't hit anything up until that point. It's just. It was kind of a hope and a prayer even then. And so, man, so many different things had to go right. You even talked about Terrace Reed. I have down here. Like this guy is basically prime Al Jefferson out there just cooking dudes. And the post, it's such a wild occurrence because like you just do not see this in NBA basketball anymore. The just dumping it into the post and this guy just working for 15 seconds in order to get a bucket. He was cooking them despite the fact that like Yukon did not have the shooting around him in order to provide any space. You saw Boozer start to crowd him at the end there. He had a nice block where he just fucking just jammed it in his face. It's just like this is a completely different sport at this point. And I will say especially considering what we're experiencing, we're going to get into some of the tanking teams later on in the NBA. Like the, this was like a jolt to the system that I haven't had in a couple months here because like this was fucking exciting to watch.
- [10:07]
J. Kyle
We can come on over.
- [10:10]
Rob Mahoney
I've just never seen Justin more alive than on this podcast in particular. You really are like beaming. That may require some self interrogation on your part as to like why it takes you know, a 20 year old hitting a shot to make you feel something. But I'm glad you are.
- [10:26]
Justin Varior
Should we talk about said 20 year olds? I think he's like probably closer to 19. But like I wanted to watch this game in part because I wanted to force you guys to talk about it because I was planning on watching it anyway, but also like it seemed like a good stage to talk about some of the draft prospects here because Mullins as I mentioned hasn't hit anything. I was watching this game, Kyle, and I was about to open this segment being like I don't really get it with this guy. Like clearly he's athletic, clearly fast, has the Hoover High haircut, like looks straight from the corn fields. I'm just like ah, you know, like movement shooter I guess at the next level. But as I was saying like just really hasn't had much success as a go to shooter throughout his his run. I know he was hurt earlier in the season. He's expected to be like a first round guy. Where are you on him overall? Cause I have to be honest, even though I am very much a Yukon homer, I'm pretty lukewarm on him overall despite the shot.
- [11:18]
J. Kyle
Yeah, the Yukon system is interesting in the what. What it asks of shooters because we kind of went through this with McNeely last year. If you remember we were writing about, you know, he was a guy who was very much a stationary. He was just a Pure stationary shooter to that point. And Yukon has a lot of flare screen action built into the way that they play. You got a guy like Jordan Hawkins who's in there and he gets drafted higher, arguably. Maybe it's a thing where we're compressing badly in both directions, I don't know. But he gets in there and, and can make those shots. Mullins was a guy that I thought would, would fare well. Cause he's got a quick shot, he's got good size. We were talking about it like before we came on air. It's really strange how. Or maybe it's not strange at all, I don't know. But like the way you perceive how big players are, like, Mullins has good size. He's listed at 6 6, which means he's probably 64 and a half at the combine if he goes. But his shoulders are so narrow that it just, I, I feel like that really plays a part in how big a player seems to me. He seems like somebody that's going to have a big decision to make. Because with the way NIL is, we saw this last year, it is encroaching on almost. That tide is almost up to the lottery in terms of how much it makes guys think. You know, we had Yaxel last year at like 18 or 19, I forget. Not everybody did. But it's these guys who are in the conversation up to that level where the money starts to compete. If you're a mid first rounder, Mullins is a guy who, with this weird year, maybe he'll go test and maybe he'll be a late riser. But I think there's a potential that he ends up being somebody who gets such a good offer and so much to gain by narrowing his range and maybe like raising it up higher. I think that's in play for him, but you know, we'll see.
- [12:54]
Justin Varior
Yeah. And Rob, this is a good question for you overall though, just in terms of the model there. Because when I watch what Mullins is doing, like I, I think Joe Harris a lot because he's like coming off his screens like the JJ Redick model. I'm like, okay, I could kind of see that, but I almost don't know if that plays player kind of exists overall in the NBA now. Like we almost move past like the go to. You could shoot and move, but that's all you do, right. And Mullins, as we kind of saw in this game and a little in previous games, like when he does put it on the deck, it looks like he maybe eventually can Do a little of that. But he did seem immediately shook by the pressure of the defense. And I think the defense also knew once he puts it on the deck, like, to crowd him. I don't know. Like, does. Does that player really work? Especially in the first round now, there
- [13:37]
Rob Mahoney
aren't many of them left, especially with that kind of built that Kyle's talking about. Like, even Joe Harris was, like, a stockier wing who can absorb some body blows, who can. You know, if you bump him coming around a screen, he's going to be able to keep his balance. That kind of thing. You either have to be that sort of physical build or in the, like, Julian Strother, like, Wiry has some off the dribble capacity kind of aspect to your game. But if you're purely a movement shooter, you had that kind of profile physically, I just think you are. You're really, really limited in terms of what you can be as a pro, so you have to show one or the other. And I think, honestly, both also require a little bit of playmaking at this point, too.
- [14:13]
Sponsor/Ad Reader
Yeah.
- [14:14]
Justin Varior
Kyle, do they. Do they measure ball size at the combine? Because my man's got big bazooka balls.
- [14:21]
Rob Mahoney
Okay.
- [14:22]
J. Kyle
Did it take you that long, Rob? That's just unbelievable. I got.
- [14:29]
Justin Varior
You can't measure heart, but you can't measure balls.
- [14:31]
Rob Mahoney
Okay.
- [14:32]
J. Kyle
Just.
- [14:32]
Rob Mahoney
Just given PH out here. Don't even worry about it.
- [14:35]
J. Kyle
Yeah, they have a cough station at the combine, I'm sure. Yeah, yeah, he wasn't really. Go ahead. Well, I was gonna say, you know, you think about these movement shooters. I mean, there's another guy that you all should check out named Milan Mom Killovich for Iowa State, who. I was like, is this just Steve. Is this Steve Novak? Like, he's the. He's like the reincarnation of that type player. But you're right, it's harder and harder to find those guys because I think sometimes people will explain. They'll. They'll work them, talk themselves into a Duncan Robinson typ, and they'll be like, well, that works. But then fail to see exactly the special. The things that make Duncan Robin special, like the little intrinsic things, which is like you were talking about, his balance is actually pretty good. If he takes bumps out there, he's big. He's quicker, I think, than people realize. The shot is really quick. It's a demanding archetype that is increasingly endangered. Mullins. I just think the percentages are just really. I think you'd have to go in there shot by shop. Maybe that's something I can do here in the next couple weeks and kind of parse the types of shots that he missed because that can be misleading. But he's somebody. Yeah. That I think is going to have a choice to make and that, you know, could it benefit you again, Justin? We'll see next year.
- [15:47]
Justin Varior
Well, on the other side of this, Cam, I think is an interesting one because Duke's run, they've been good. Question Mark. I know the Sienna game was. Was pretty iffy and then obviously this one was a complete catastrophe. I don't know. I've been probably a little lukewarm on what I've seen from Cam Boozer in the tournament. I obviously haven't seen a ton. Clearly like the know how efficiency, like I. I'm just so dialed in aspect of him has really popped in the way that we talked about in the past. But I don't know in terms of like some. What I've seen from some of the other guys talking about like Darren Peterson. DeBonsa just feels like Kim probably gets us into a conversation about like player type as well, where it's just like he's going to be a four. Right. But it does feel like despite being so smart and using his body and. And knowing how to take certain steps and not take certain steps, like it just didn't seem particularly fleet of foot. And so he almost seems like a More Older School 4 doesn't have the same mobility when we're seeing now like a lot of fours across the NBA are like hyper athletes who are just like extended wings who are just a little bit bigger. Like Debons is probably the prime example of that. I don't know. What have you thought about just Cam overall, Kyle, and just like has it changed your thinking going to the draft at all this tournament?
- [17:02]
J. Kyle
The spatial differences and the personnel differences from college to the NBA obviously are, you know, that's. That seems like a pretty like no duh kind of a thing to start with. With. With how it's going to be different for him in particular. You know, he has been really smart and I think this is one of the things that is tricky to parse about him is that he doesn't really accept, you know, like that that's Sienna game in the first round teams, they were daring him to kind of take anything in that like 14 to you know, the. The mid. Mid range kind of thing. And he. He just refused to take those shots. So you're coming away seeing a guy who's like strictly spot up or strictly at the rim and he doesn't really do anything in between. If he. If he does get into the middle of the floor, he's gonna. He kind of. Barkley says they say into the post, up from the outside, that. That part of it is like. I think he's going to look a lot different in NBA space, just in my opinion. And I think that he's going to have the potential to add some of this stuff too. Because if you look at the shooting touch from the foul line, it's like all that. I trust him to figure out some of those things. I guess the question would be if you look at like he got bothered in the Virginia Tech or just the Virginia ACC title game by a pretty legit shop blocker. People are bringing these things up. And I would throw this to Rob is our. Like is our native big guy because he likes to play like a big guy. Yeah, yada, yada, yada. But how much are the little hand grenade over the shoulder, you know, hook shots? Is his kind of around the rim stuff for what he's going to live or die by? I don't think. I think he has more to him than that. I think it's just he's such a smart player, in my opinion, that he's going to that because that's what it necessitates. He's not a player that beats himself.
- [18:43]
Rob Mahoney
I also think he profiles as one of those bigs who does something super important in the modern NBA, which is you can't really switch smaller guards against him because of that quality, because he has so much experience bullying smaller players and getting exactly where he needs to go. That combination, plus the playmaking awareness to play out of those situations, I think gives him an outlet. And also, I mean, you would know better than I would, Kyle. But like, I don't think him becoming a reasonable stretch option is totally off the table. Like, it feels like he has decent enough touch to at least see that as part of his game. And we live and work around an NBA right now in which a lot of teams are running two bigs in various capacities. One of them can kind of stretch. Some of them are pure stretch fives or fours. But a lot of teams are trying to get size on the floor. And so long as that size is coming in a package that has, like, good basketball iq, I think there are a lot of ways you can work through it.
- [19:36]
Justin Varior
So UConn now has Illinois in the Final Four. I've been watching a lot of Wagla, which I say as if I'm at my local Dunkin Donuts just like give me a Wagla.
- [19:47]
Rob Mahoney
I gotta say, the way you are.
- [19:51]
Justin Varior
I, I gotta say I'm a fan though. I've been watching a little bit of Illinois. I don't like their prospects against Yukon, but what's crazy about him was I've noticed about him is like his handle isn't super tight, but he has all of the escape movements you would want that are like higher levels of that. Like he has the side steps and like the steps backs and the D cell stuff and like the power through and it's almost like if he tightens his handle he would just like completely unlock all of this. But right now he has all the high end stuff but maybe not like some of the like really like sort of foundational stuff. When comes to drip. I don't know. I kind of love him. We've talked about like who might go five after the top three guys then and then Caleb Wilson, like he just seems like the type of guy who's going to translate like pretty easily.
- [20:38]
J. Kyle
Yeah, he hit him with the, the, the like Penny Hardaway reverse pivot, step back thing. I forget what that move is even called. The one that I think Penny even admitted. He just made it up on the spot, but now he's associated with it. But yeah, man, I mean Wagler is a great.
- [20:52]
Rob Mahoney
His.
- [20:52]
J. Kyle
You want to talk about stones, man? I mean in that game he just seemed like the calmest one on that team. I don't. In terms of his Illinois chances against UConn, they beat them earlier in the year kind of handily. It wasn't like an ass kicking, but I mean it didn't seem like it was super in doubt. But the key difference here is that Wagler has really ascended and asserted himself since then. So I think in terms of the prospect discussion, this is going to be. UConn has a lot of like just speedy backcourt depth that I think is going to be interesting to watch against him. This Illinois team is tougher than you think though. They've got this kind of Balkan badass thing going on where Merkavich and they're a little. They're pretty tough. I wouldn't, I wouldn't discount them because this is a different game than it was back in the. Back in the. In the winter.
- [21:40]
Justin Varior
I think they're.
- [21:40]
J. Kyle
None of you have anything to say about that matchup?
- [21:42]
Justin Varior
Yeah, Well, I mean UConn's defense is
- [21:45]
J. Kyle
looking for taking it towards the game. My bad. Oops.
- [21:49]
Rob Mahoney
No. If you're not going to do it, who is? We need you Kyle.
- [21:52]
Justin Varior
I mean I think Arizona looks like a buzzsaw. I think the Michigan Arizona matchup looks probably like the, the title game in and of itself. And then whoever wins that one will probably win the title. Yoxel just out there just paying his mortgages and then like just, just crushing dudes out there. 24 year olds should be like a. Ariana's second contract in the NBA and is just like stomping a bunch of 19 year olds. It's actually kind of fun to watch, I'll be honest. But I'll say this just overall just to, just to bring us home here. I think when Yukon won that second title I was a little. You haven't won in a while there in Kentucky so I know this is a new experience for you.
- [22:31]
J. Kyle
I'm riding all this down
- [22:35]
Justin Varior
and I won't forget when they won the second one I was like oh my God. They might be the most dominant program in college basketball because they were already starting to do things that they hadn't previously under Calhoun, which is not only like consistent success as opposed to these like one year runs where they have this like dominant guard play and they just kind of out of nowhere just win the title. That's what they did with Shabazz is what they did with Kemba. But then like they started to get all the high end prospects that like a Duke would like. Steph Castle is probably the best prospect that they've ever gotten that I can remember. And I was like man, are they just going to become a pro factory in the. Under her? Duke has. Yeah, under hurley. Yes. I thought they would, they would just be a different type of program. And like part of me was like oh, this is new and exciting. Like we're in the mix for the flag types in a way that we haven't previously been. But on the other part of me was like that's not kind of who they are. And they didn't ultimately become that like Mullins is like the 12th ranked prospect I was looking up there. They get one of those guys per year but it's a lot of transfers. Other guys who have been around. Caravan has been around for a while and you know what? I fucking love it. Because then Duke comes into town with their 19 like five star prospects and they just get fucking smashed in the biggest games. I love it the way this is
- [23:53]
J. Kyle
feeding your superiority literally at the last second.
- [23:57]
Justin Varior
Well they just don't have that championship DNA, you know what I mean? When it comes down to it, it's nutcrunching. Time and they're just throwing the ball around like, oh, I. I won't get followed. I'll just toss it up ahead when I don't have to. Other boozer who sucks, by the way. All right.
- [24:15]
J. Kyle
I just.
- [24:18]
Justin Varior
Is that other boozer even going to come out?
- [24:20]
J. Kyle
I hope this gets back to him.
- [24:21]
Justin Varior
I don't know.
- [24:22]
J. Kyle
I feel like he's probably like a second rounder personally. But I haven't thought a ton about him coming out because I just didn't think the Taylor would.
- [24:31]
Justin Varior
Of the boozers.
- [24:33]
Rob Mahoney
Incredibly rude.
- [24:34]
J. Kyle
Much better than Taylor Griffin.
- [24:37]
Rob Mahoney
I don't know.
- [24:37]
J. Kyle
He might end up in a situation where he can. They can still play together. That's possible. It seems like it. If he, He's. If he's not going to be like in. In one of those serious value spots. I don't. They have a guy coming in next. They have a kid named Duron Rippy coming in next year. That's pretty good. I'm just kind of like. I guess they could. He could run it back.
- [24:53]
Rob Mahoney
I don't know.
- [24:54]
J. Kyle
It's. It's a toss up for him.
- [24:56]
Sponsor/Ad Reader
Yeah.
- [24:56]
Justin Varior
Do you think the boozers will do the thing like the Morris twins where they got one contract and they just had to split it up themselves, which the Suns just took advantage of them. Do you want to do that? You and I with our contracts.
- [25:07]
Rob Mahoney
Why aren't the three of us doing this? I feel like I'll let you get this piece.
- [25:11]
J. Kyle
I'll let you guys hitch each other.
- [25:13]
Justin Varior
Rob's got that Max baby. I'll take whatever portion he wants and give me.
- [25:18]
Rob Mahoney
I'm happy to split up our personal title pie amongst ourselves.
- [25:21]
Justin Varior
Okay.
- [25:22]
J. Kyle
Sure.
- [25:22]
Rob Mahoney
All right.
- [25:23]
Justin Varior
Why don't we take a break? I'm just going to take an Ambien. We'll come back, we'll talk about the NBA. This episode is brought to you by Men's Warehouse. What you wear depends on the occasion. Like, are we talking awards, courtside seats, or just watching the game at home? At Men's Warehouse, they've got you covered with a huge variety of clothing and styles from clothing like suits, sport coats, dress shirts, Tucker boxes for more formal events, to casual clothing like polo shirts, shorts and jeans for everyday wear. The Men's Wearhouse experts can help you work out your look while their on site tailors guarantee your clothes fit you perfectly. Men's wearhouse has over 600 locations nationwide. They are here and nearby when you're ready to love the way you.
- [26:03]
J. Kyle
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- [26:30]
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- [27:09]
Justin Varior
Look, all right, I talked about how the nerd rock conversation might have been podcast nadir for good old group chat here. I think number two in the running.
- [27:19]
J. Kyle
We got a lot of good feedback about that. I don't even want to hear it.
- [27:22]
Justin Varior
Yeah, from a bunch of supermodels, I bet.
- [27:24]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah. But also, I thought. I thought you were going to go. That was the nadir. But here is the pinnacle of group chat podcasting. Is that not the direction you're going to?
- [27:32]
Justin Varior
We will eventually, but I first need to mention how I think it was minute 10 of the show you guys decided to do a question about, like, most improved, I guess, next year, like, who's playing well in March? And I'm just thinking to myself, there are nine fucking people on this call. Nobody stopped to think, like, this is literally what we're going to do next week when it comes to, like, Rob is getting into, like, Omax, Prosper, and Mattis Mazelos. I'm like, brother, just let's save it for next week. It's been on the schedule for months. What are you doing?
- [28:06]
Rob Mahoney
We don't have more than one take about the Grizzlies.
- [28:10]
Justin Varior
I definitely do not.
- [28:11]
Rob Mahoney
That's a personal problem. Don't blame us for that.
- [28:14]
Justin Varior
I have to really dig out some of the takes in order to get to some of these Eastern Conference teams today, but that was a real sight to behold. Thanks, guys. Really appreciate all the.
- [28:24]
J. Kyle
Everyone on Earth tracking that.
- [28:26]
Justin Varior
Yeah, I mean, I certainly was. Well, here we are again to talk about some of the players that you already mentioned. But Rob is right. This is one of the best pods of the year. This is, say, one nice thing which I believe we've been doing well. Like what, like three to four years, Rob, this point?
- [28:44]
Rob Mahoney
Something like that, yeah.
- [28:45]
Justin Varior
We take some time at the end of the year to talk about the teams that will no longer be with us as we move on in our lives to the playoffs. I'll be honest, I had to stop and think whether or not we should do this just because the five teams we're going to talk about today, maybe like three of them certainly, but you could certainly make the case for all five. Like, they don't deserve to be talked about. Like, if anything, I almost feel like we should counter program and not talk about these teams because some of the, like the tanking down the stretch has just been horrid.
- [29:16]
Rob Mahoney
It's been horrid, but they are still working. NBA teams full of working NBA players who deserve literally a moment of sunlight. We're not investing that much in them ultimately. Like, give them their moment.
- [29:27]
J. Kyle
This is the. The oscillating fan is coming around for a second and then it's coming back. So I. You're right, though. I mean, this is. I had a hard time with some of these. We. We had to get a little creative because it was. It was tough. The bottom, the bottom. It's dark at this bottom.
- [29:43]
Justin Varior
Well, we are picking a good time to talk about these teams because these are really healthy on days for the Indiana Pacers first and foremost, but also the Brooklyn Nets, who beyond all shadow of a doubt, actually won games on the same day. Before we recorded this show, the Pacers, almost like they couldn't help themselves the past two games, even they lost the game down the stretch the other night where Jay Huff gets followed in the last seconds and missed both free throws. At that point, I was like, the fix is in. Like, they definitely told him to miss those free throws.
- [30:16]
J. Kyle
Kevin Pritchard had a poison dart from the upper level and he shot him. It's on. You can see it in the 4K broadcast, but you couldn't see it if you did.
- [30:24]
Rob Mahoney
Wait, you think Jay Huff took a dive?
- [30:27]
Justin Varior
I mean, they don't deserve the benefit of a doubt at that point because they had lost since the deadline. 18 of 19 games.
- [30:36]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [30:36]
Justin Varior
Up until Sunday, the only win that they have was against the Orlando Magic, who just as like a side tangent here. Holy shit. The Orlando Magic, somehow worse than any of these teams right now, just given up. What was at a 31 and nothing run against the. The Raptors. Embarrassing on some of the worst basketball I've ever Seen. And we have suffered through, like, the Bobcats days, like, just absolutely being played right now. Unbelievable. But the Pacers won because they shot the lights out against the Heat. And so, like, congrats. Or I imagine if you're a Pacers fan, you're not celebrating this, right?
- [31:13]
Rob Mahoney
I think they've done their work. I think when you lose 18 of 19, the one, you know, again, it's okay to win an occasional game. You just can't be kings and kings ing it up, winning on a shockingly regular basis.
- [31:26]
J. Kyle
So are we starting with the Pacers saying our nice things? Is that what I think?
- [31:30]
Justin Varior
You got to start from the bottom? Yeah. If any. If only to, like, give them credit for actually going out and winning a game for once for the first time in, like, two months.
- [31:38]
J. Kyle
Well, mine is gonna sound. Mine's gonna sound insane. Can I start?
- [31:42]
Rob Mahoney
Because I would love insane,
- [31:45]
J. Kyle
because just what you. You would have to watch them to even begin to think that this would be the case to read through is that, like, I still feel like there's this weird, shrouded, yet bridled competitiveness with them that they are, like, they still do have this competitiveness that they're so actively trying to sabotage because, like. Like, it's. It feels different than some of these other teams. Like, the Nets can't help themselves. The Wizards, I don't think they. They have that gear, if you look. I mean, yeah, they're having to go out of that. They started Quentin Jackson, Jalen, Colt Slauson, and Ethan Thompson the other night. I mean, it's just.
- [32:24]
Justin Varior
Jalen Slauson, by the way, totally played quarterback against Permian in, like, Friday Night Lights. Right? Like, he. He definitely was, like, a low level prospect that ended up at, like, Texas Tech.
- [32:35]
Rob Mahoney
Oh, I drafted him in ncaa or I. I recruited him in NCAA football and took, like, you know, Eastern Carolina to a dynasty with J, no doubt.
- [32:44]
Justin Varior
That's right. But no, to Kyle's point, though, like, all of the main players have to play because the NBA is clearly, like, putting the screws to a lot of these teams. And so, like, a lot of the rosters most of the time look like the team that you're used to seeing, like, a mediocre team, but the team that we're used to nonetheless, definitely took a turn in this Heat game. But overall, you could definitely tell, like, the teams are getting very creative about how they're sucking because they have to under the guys that, like, oh, all the good guys are playing. It's fine. It's fine. It is not fine.
- [33:16]
J. Kyle
Yeah, like, they're. The Pacers are still in there, is what I'm saying. Like, I'm. I look in there and I'm. I'm. Like, there's still something. There's some quiet confidence at the back where I'm. Where I'm like, they are sabotaging. But the moment that this stops and they get. You know, granted, we've talked about there has been some turnover. We're assuming a lot. We're assuming a lot that Hallie's going to come in and be himself. We're assuming that Zubot is going to Zubots is going to do some kind of, you know, at least productivity wise. He's not going to replicate what Miles is because they're two different guys. But I just, I look at them and I'm like, as bad as it is, I still see the Pacers in there, but you have to really watch
- [33:54]
Rob Mahoney
to see that, like, yeah, they're still recognizable for sure. And it is just a matter of, like, putting the right guys in the right positions, playing them their full allotment of minutes, as you're saying, like, making good on some of the competitive equity that's already there. They're going to be a really good team. Honestly. I think even if Halliburton comes back a full step slow or like, it really has to ease into the season or needs more time, whatever that looks like. I just think if you let these guys off the leash and say, actually try to win games next season with a Vita Zubots full time, I just think they're going to win a decent number of games, basically, regardless. And some of that is because they've had opportunities during this sort of lost season to poke around the edges. You're seeing growth from Andrew Nemhardt as a playmaker. I think one of the little things that I wanted to highlight is, like, Pascal at the 5 was a thing they were doing out of necessity because they basically had no functional centers for good chunks of this season. I think they should really continue to do it. I like some of those lineups shockingly sort of worked. And you don't trade for a Vita Zubots to not play him or not rely on him. But the idea that the secondary change of pace look that the Pacers could throw at people is this, like, incredibly uptempo, incredibly dynamic Pascal at the five surrounded by athletes who can really run with him. I think there's really something there in a way that they weren't relying on him before, but could next season.
- [35:14]
Justin Varior
Yeah, unfortunately, they had to stumble upon it because Jay Huff just never really came around in the way that we probably would have helped. Maybe, maybe he got bonuses and like REI credits from missing those free throws. But like everything beyond just blocking the shit out of everything at the rim has been pretty suspect. Like not a rebounder. The three point shooting hasn't been there this season the way that I, I would have hoped. Like if he was just a R protector and a three point shooter, it would have been like, oh, that's useful. Especially perhaps in like a lineup with Siakam as the go to five. Like you could just stretch out Hoff, put him in the corner and then just rely on his shop blocking. Then you have a pretty credible defense on the other end there. That would be interesting. And maybe if he's a backup now and playing primarily against backups like he did with the Grizzlies, like, maybe there's something more to that. But you're right, he didn't come around. And if anything, like, Siakam looks like their second best center at this point.
- [36:03]
Rob Mahoney
But it is one of it's. I think it's a useful exercise going into all future seasons with any of these guys who it's like, oh, I really like this bench player for this other team. Could they stretch out into a starting role? Just because you have the requisite skills doesn't mean you can do them over 36 minutes in games that actually matter. And that's to the extent that these Pacers games have actually mattered at all. Like these are low stakes affairs and Jay Huff couldn't even just like fill the minutes that they were hoping he'd be able to fill. So the Siaka part of it I do think is real. I do think a huge, like a huge asset of the way he plays the game is like he does this stuff that's like pretty thankless. Cross matching against fives, playing center when asked. Like there aren't a lot of fours in the league who want to do that. And Pascal Siakam does it and does it well and doesn't complain even when like the Pacers are going to lose these games. I just have a lot of admiration for that style and how he conducts himself, but also how it transposes when the games actually do matter.
- [37:00]
J. Kyle
Yeah, and there's an interesting thing that goes on, I think, whenever, like whenever players are out, which we know, we've seen that with the Nuggets, where, you know, they found out things that you, you, you discover wrinkles because of your crises. You know, the the, the. The crisis becomes, you know, necessity, mother of invention type thing where the Pacers though are at the opposite end of that where. Or the bad team. Some of these bad teams. And I think we're going to talk. This is a recurring thing for me and some of my compliments for some of these bad teams is that in this void that needs to be filled by something, whether it's like, okay, we're trying to find someone who could give us 10 minutes a game on a competitive team, it's like, okay J. Huff, you answer that question for us. And I think the scale kind of goes up as we watch some of these younger players. But I guess that's one sort of like silver lining byproduct of this is you do get some info ping back to you which is useful for the Pacers there. It's regarding J. Hope.
- [37:51]
Justin Varior
What did you guys find out about yourselves when. When I wasn't around that this podcast can somehow get even nerdier?
- [37:57]
Rob Mahoney
Honestly, it was fine. It was a seamless process. Like we, we just leaned into the truest versions of ourselves and we found that you were holding us back this whole time. So tough revelations.
- [38:07]
J. Kyle
No whatsoever. Loved it.
- [38:10]
Justin Varior
My, my favorite part was when when Isaiah asked the question about the indie Iraq, you could just like sense the boredom as he was coming out.
- [38:18]
J. Kyle
Well, I called that out.
- [38:21]
Rob Mahoney
Isaiah did disclose to us before the pod and just really showing and exposing our age that he didn't even know like what OTS was referring to because he's so much younger than us. And it's like, oh no, we are. That's one of. We're cooked.
- [38:34]
J. Kyle
That's one of Isaiah's best qualities though, is that his heart rate never gets. He's just a cool guy. He's always nothing.
- [38:40]
Justin Varior
Fast voice of Gen Z.
- [38:41]
Rob Mahoney
So he's a real woggler out here.
- [38:43]
Justin Varior
Yeah, well, Kyle mentioned like fringe guys there. I do. Just as my one thing I Kobe Brown seems like a rotation guy and that is more important for a team like the Pacers that is so cap strapped. And like one of the operating theories of getting Zubotch is that they could fit him into their books because they already have the two maxes with Siakam and Halibur. And obviously Zubach in like the 20s range fits in there in a way that isn't going to force them to go into luxury tax and pay through the teeth. Kobe Brown just like seems like the type of guy who could easily just like play 15 minutes, 20 minutes a game in the regular season. Like A big old beefy boy who we liked with the Clippers, who have a history at this point of finding some guys late in the first round, unfortunately, they go on to other teams like Musa Diabate and, like, really find themselves. But, like, big guy, strong guy, like, clearly can defend a couple positions, shoot a little bit. Really, like, kind of crafty getting inside, like, surprisingly so. But, like, finding him seems like the type of win late in the season, especially as you're really fucking digging deep to find them with the Pacers. Like. Like that matters in the long run for a team that's so top heavy.
- [39:45]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, I think their. Their wing kind of forward rotation could look just like a little different overall next season, particularly depending on what happens with this draft pick. If they end up in the top four as expected, and they land a Debonza, then, yeah, obviously he's going to be a huge part of their plans. But, like, I think Kobe has been good enough to get a real look. I think Juris Walker has been good enough to get a more consistent look. Ben Shepard, thankfully, has started to hit some shots and kind of redeemed some of his season. So. So ultimately, like, they're going to have some options and how they choose to, like, go into free agency knowing all that, that you have some kind of flyers to take within your roster already, I'm eager to see what they do with that opportunity.
- [40:21]
Justin Varior
All right. Should we talk about the Wizards who kept the losing going yesterday? They stayed strong. Everyone else was flying high. They didn't like. No, no, no. We're just going to fucking suck still. So since losing a back to. Back to Indy, which ultimately might decide who ends up with at least the.
- [40:40]
J. Kyle
The.
- [40:40]
Justin Varior
The number one slot in the lottery, we'll see what happens in terms of odds. But since losing a back to. Back to Indy have lost 18 of 19. Rob, you want to go first with the Wizards?
- [40:53]
Rob Mahoney
I would love to. We all know next year's Wizards are going to be a dramatically different team in dramatically different circumstances. Trae Young presumably will play all the time. Anthony Davis will play as much as his body allows. And so they're going to be competing for something. And I think that version of the team the like play in Wizards, I think there's a real role for Will Riley on that team and start to see it kind of pop here. I.
- [41:16]
Justin Varior
Look, I had this.
- [41:17]
Rob Mahoney
There's room on this train for all of us guys.
- [41:19]
Sponsor/Ad Reader
Yeah.
- [41:21]
Rob Mahoney
But to me, it's. The single most interesting thing about Washington's late season has been his emergence, particularly when you Think about what that version of the Wizards is going to need. And it's when Trey is on the floor, who are the wings who are going to be able to spot up and hit shots? Riley's been really good at that, especially later in this season. And then when Trey's not on the floor, who are the guys who could have an interesting synergy with ad? And I think Riley has shown like a nice playmaking facility for them that could really pay off. Kind of, you know, working the edges for some second units. So having another big wing around who can handle and make some plays and hit some shots, clearly valuable. I would not be shocked whatsoever if by the time next year's play in tournament comes around and the Wizards are trying to scrap their way in that Riley has maybe like hurdled Bilal Kula Bali in the rotation or in the pecking order in terms of importance. He just feels like a guy who's so clearly on the come up. It has a lot of what they need.
- [42:13]
J. Kyle
Absolutely. I mean he was the guy coming in, you know, 21st pick, he was reclassed, so he was a little younger. But we were watching him and you, you saw the shooting percentages, the percentages inside, inside the arc. I'm just remembering back about like the, the, you know, conversation for him at Illinois and you wondered like, is this a guy who's just never going to really be an efficient score at any level? We know we can kind of handle the ball a little bit, but what does that net out to? You mentioned the shooting and the things like that. Like yeah, he's. I had it written down here. In the past eight games, 16 and a half points, 3.3 assists and almost five threes a game at 38 and a half percent. So he's just, he's had the opportunity, you know, in the, in the void, like we were saying, it's been filled with a lot of pick and roll reps for him. He looks really smooth. He's big. I mean he's 6, 7, 6, 8. The fact that it's even a discussion that he leapfrog Koulibaly.
- [43:05]
Justin Varior
Wow.
- [43:06]
J. Kyle
I just didn't see, you know, I just, I expected Koulibaly to develop a little more. Granted, you know, things will come around, but this was a pretty big steal for them in a way that they've hit on their picks, man, I know we're going to be talking about the Nets, but that is, that is a huge silver lining for them. And just the fact that he can handle the ball so well. I think is. Is really popping for me.
- [43:24]
Rob Mahoney
And he's so slinky off the dribble, too. Like, if you saw that game against the warriors the other night, he took Draymond one on one and just, like, worked him. And it's. It's unusual to see a young guard like him pull off that kind of maneuver.
- [43:36]
Justin Varior
Yeah, they haven't listed at 6 9, but, like, he's a beefy 6 9, and it's crazy watching him out there because it almost feels like he, like Tom Hanks big style, just, like, doesn't have full control over his entire body. Like, he'll do things, and it's almost like he's surprised about where he's going. But there's an effortlessness to some of the skill stuff that clearly can't be taught. Like, the shooting touch seems pretty nice, and, like, the passing reads seem pretty natural to him. And so you're right. I, like, I was watching, like, one. They have a lot of big wings out there that they could throw out there because Keyshawn's also big, Wells big. Koulibaly is big. But, like, he already has shown the type of offensive inclination that Koulibaly has just never shown. And, like, he's obviously going into a big year this summer with that draft class already being extension eligible. I'm like, what is Koulibaly at this point? He's practically just like a defensive guy. And, like, if you keep him in the rotation, that has some advantages, especially on a trade team that's going to be looking to fill out the wings there. But, like, I think he already has passed him in the pecking order, if only because, like, there's just so much more to explore.
- [44:40]
Rob Mahoney
I think it'll probably depend on how much they feel that urgency on defense next season, and if they want to have not, just, you know, Keyshawn out there to guard people, but also Bilal to chase people around and cross match and hide Trey as much as possible. Like, I could see them kind of falling into that or talking themselves into it, at least to start the year. But Balal shooting better right now. Like, I want to give him due credit for that. We haven't really seen it over any sustained stretch, and so long as that's the case, he's always going to be kind of a funky fit. And if you're trying to have Bilal Koulibaly and Alex Sar and Anthony Davis on the floor together, I just don't really see that being a viable combination of players. And so this is where, you know, Will Riley, all of a sudden there's a real opportunity for him. And this has kind of been there all year. Like, when he has gotten shreds of minutes, like, you could see some of the pop in terms of creation. They just haven't had consistent opportunity for him. And so I think this is more than just like, March, mirage kind of stuff. Like, there is something real here that has been going on that now he has the opportunity to show and next season, I think he's really going to get a chance to prove it.
- [45:41]
J. Kyle
Yeah, the feel and the. The feel is the thing that really pops and separates for him versus, like you were saying, like, a cool Bali or other. Are I'm blinking on the. Or like a Whitmore. These other guys that they've given an audition to. And I think that. That once they get all their guys in place, I think he's probably. He's a pretty good cutter, too, and pretty athletic finisher, which I think is going to really help once they get everybody back into place. Is a good, good find for them. It was a good value, good pick.
- [46:07]
Justin Varior
Also say this about the Trey Young and AD trades. Looking back on it, like, I still like those deals more as rehab weigh stations in order to flip them later on. Like, maybe once some of these other younger guys pop, you can kind of like, almost level them up and push those guys out for future assets. That would be probably what I would hope for those transactions. But overall, they're at the point where, like, they really can't jam any more young guys into this team. Like, they have gone this season, I would say, from a team teaming with just, like, draft picks, we'll see what's that? We'll just throw everybody out there and see what sticks to, like, now they've almost, like, settled a lot of the spots with guys who maybe aren't fully formed, but, like, have really, like, solidified themselves as the guys who will eventually be there. I just don't know how many more draft picks after the one they're going to get this season in this upcoming draft, like, they have in order to spend on that. And so for looking back on the trade, trade and all that other stuff, like, it makes more sense because, like, they can't keep taking, like, there's nowhere to put these people. There's no G League. There's no, like, feeder system like, this is it like, your team is who
- [47:10]
Rob Mahoney
it is, Especially if they don't extend Trae Young, you know, and he becomes a part of the team for a short Term while you bring along the point guard of the future behind him. I think there's a lot of ways that this could make sense for them as that kind of transitional stop. Jv.
- [47:24]
Justin Varior
I think they might be better than probably we expect next year, if only because, like, we'll see which rookie they get. But their team really is kind of carved in a certain path where it makes a certain amount of sense, more sense than I expected for a team that's just like losing every game down the stretch here. Like, it is. It makes sense. Sara. Next to AD Trey, running pick and roll wings spread. Like, that's gotta be a play in team next year. Yeah, you can. You can get, like, really wild with some of the expectations of AD Pops in the way that, like, he hasn't in a couple years. But, like, I. I feel pretty solid about them being like, their floor as a play in team.
- [47:59]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, I don't see the best version of. Of the Wizards. And granted, they need to prove it. We gotta see these guys on the floor together. But I just don't think it's that far away from what we've seen from the Raptors. For a lot of this season, we were just talking about the Magic and how disappointing they've been. Like, yeah, there are the healthy Sixers or the Surgeon, the Hornets, like, that might be in a different class. What the Hawks have been doing over the last, like, 20 games, that's. That's a different thing. But Washington is right there in the mix with all these other teams, the Heat included, where I just don't see any daylight between what the Wizards should be and what those teams are right now.
- [48:35]
Justin Varior
All right, let's take one more break. We come back, do the remaining three teams. All right, the Brooklyn Nets, big winners on Sunday. So I have it down here. Two losses since February 11th. Before that, they had gone 20 of 22. It's just, like, unbelievable. Like, I'm saying these things, and I think we're pretty numb to it because the tanking down the stretch over the past five to 10 years has just been so brazen and terrible. But, like, this is historically, like, just shit. Like, I. I can't remember the last time that teams were just throwing away months and being successful at it. I think that is the distinction that they have become so good at being bad that it's like, it's hard to miss. Like, they're experts at being shitty.
- [49:23]
Rob Mahoney
I mean, they're getting 10,000 hours. You know, we're really training people to lose in this very particular way.
- [49:30]
J. Kyle
And it's wild to see them lean into it. And you just think like the audacity to just commit, continue to be committed to the bit. And it's like, well, what's the alternative? It's like if you, if you grow a conscience about like what you're being a part of here, the stakes are, you know, one of these, potentially one of these guys, the Devantz's or the Petersons or the Boozers. And I don't, you know, in that sense it's sick. It's, it's crazy. But it's like I don't blame him for staying leaned in and committed to it.
- [49:57]
Justin Varior
I almost wonder if as a byproduct of the NBA getting so tough with this talk about like finally leveling penalties because Lord knows it's taking two decades just to get to the point where they're actually considering actual ideas that flatten odds and whatnot. I almost wonder if a lot of these teams are like, oh, last day. Like we're just going to start doing as much as possible because this might be the last time we have for to do this. And so like, maybe that was a reason why teams like the Jazz, like the Pacers, got ahead of it early at the deadline. I don't know how early those teams were tipped off to the NBA. Like thinking about this, it reminds me a little bit about the Suns getting Steve Nash back before the freedom of movement rules start to click in and all of a sudden, oh, the Suns are one of the best teams in the league because they have the exact player who could thrive in that environment. I almost wonder if some of these tankers are like, fuck it, last time, there's only so much they could do for us. Let's just like, let's let it rip and next year we'll go from there.
- [50:52]
Rob Mahoney
I think it's a very real thing. I think the causality of that, the timing, you're right, it's hard to parse kind of when the decisions were made relative to the grand, like the shifting tide as far as public opinion around this stuff. But every team wants to be the last team through the door. Like that's the ultimate payoff for this kind of system is like you want to be the one to take advantage of the rules to the maximum possible extent and then fuck everybody else as they have to deal with the flattened dots. That's, I mean, that's competition, you know, Like, I really have no problem with that. But everyone is racing through that door at the moment.
- [51:25]
Justin Varior
And I will say, as A byproduct. Like teams that stocked up on future picks for trading their superstars, like the Portland Trailblazers for instance, are really in a bind now because all of a sudden these juicy ass assets that they've acquired like all of a sudden tough
- [51:40]
Rob Mahoney
for the Blazers, you know, it's.
- [51:42]
Justin Varior
It's tough out here, man.
- [51:43]
Rob Mahoney
We're pouring one out. It's really tough.
- [51:45]
Justin Varior
A little Pino off the glass, little ipa. It's been gorgeous here this week though. Wow, what a lovely spring. It really just makes your heart in your mind wow.
- [51:56]
J. Kyle
Yeah.
- [51:58]
Justin Varior
No, but I do think the Blazers or any other team that the Rockets for instance, seeming that I have to use other examples of future picks. It sucks because those assets all of a sudden don't look as is attractive on the flip side of that team like the Brooklyn Nets, who we're just going to talk about, don't have their picks next year and it's like, oh fuck, it doesn't matter because I pick doesn't matter anyway. Having said that though, with the Nets still kind of like what do we got here? I feel like I like a new rookie every month. And for this month it's Ben Saraf who unfortunately for you guys, I have to make the obvious Denny Abdia comp. Because I do think despite the fact that they are countrymen, there is a little avdi in this guy where he gets north, south, downhill, like a running back. In a way that reminds me a lot of Denny. And then all of the skill stuff seems to pop from there. He's a little smaller, a little bit more dynamic as an athlete too and is doing some of the ball handling stuff first. Whereas Denny became more of a role player and now has backdoored some of the more skill stuff like from a jump, the way he's able to get downhill and then create or like he's getting to the line pretty well. I've been pretty impressed. It's like a month and like, you know, Jaeger's not in there. Traore is falling off and all of a sudden Seraph is playing well. But he has had a moment and those moments send matter.
- [53:18]
Rob Mahoney
I do like what we've seen from him. I'm a little concerned not to poo poo our nice things as we deliver them, but he has such an unusual cadence to the way he moves. Like it's very counterintuitive. And you can even see within these games as defenders get a little more accustomed to guarding him, the things that they're able to take away like once he gets on the scouting report. That's the Benzer off. I want to see, like, what is his counter to the counter as defenses kind of solve him because he's fun to watch. Exactly. Because of that unpredictable quality. But it's not that unpredictable. It's just that nobody has seen him play this year because he's barely had an opportunity.
- [53:53]
J. Kyle
Yeah, you're. You're right, Justin, about the, the handling and stuff. It's like he's. He has that kind of physicality that. That reminds you a little bit of Abdia, but yet a little bit smaller. The shot has always been the thing that I just don't trust at all. And if they're, if, if teams are going to figure him out, like, in terms of the downhill stuff, that. That's a problem. I just think their draft increasingly looks, you know, I've gone through the cycle of, like, I liked it. Maybe we'll circle all the way back. But it is wild to look at who they could have taken at every spot at all. Five of those beautiful picks that they decided to pick.
- [54:26]
Justin Varior
So I wrote down here, instead of Denny Wolf.
- [54:29]
J. Kyle
Well, yeah, at 8, they could have taken Murray Bos Coward. They could have taken Derek Queen. They could have Carter Bryant at 19, this, and this is just going by the guys around him. They could have had Yaka Chonas, Will Riley, Nick Clifford. And then in Those picks at 26 and 27, they could have had Ugo. They could have had Kalkbrenner, they could have had Yannick. Boom. They could have had Rasheer Flemings, who's coming on out, out in Phoenix. It's just interesting how if they had taken a different skill set, approach, mindset, lens, whatever you want to call it, how would we be looking at this differently? Because this is so, you know, they cut Cam Thomas loose. There's really just not much of a. Of a direction in terms of the, the talent that they have. And it could have gone so differently. You know, it's. It's tough.
- [55:15]
Rob Mahoney
Well, who do we feel best about. Among. Among those rookies, who are we highest on? I mean, Ben's. Ross, your answer, like, right this second, Justin, do you feel best about him overall relative to these other prospects?
- [55:26]
Justin Varior
It changes every month. And I think that's the problem that they all have played to a certain level where they'll have like two games where it's like, oh, really see it in that game, but then they'll have 10 where it's like, I don't fucking know this guy. And also like, with Traore and Seraph and, and with Jaeger, they're obviously playing similar styles. I don't know if Seraph is really like a go to primary ball handler. It seems like he's more of a, a two wing type, especially if he can get the shooting to go. So like they could play together, but a lot of times like they're stepping on each other. But now like Jaeger is hurt and so long story short, I almost want to put all three of those guys at like two A, B and C. Whereas I think Danny Wolf has been the best of them. But ultimately I don't like him long term as it is like for their future. And so I, I don't know which is the problem. I think at a certain point this season you would expect to at least have like a, an idea of where the Runway is. Right. Do you feel like you know that with any of these guys, Rob?
- [56:27]
Rob Mahoney
No, I don't. I, I think you're spot on that for a team that has just an ocean of opportunity to throw all of these guys in at various stages and for us to come out of the season with, at least externally, I would say no greater clarity as far as who is actually good and not feels like a real missed opportunity and a real problem. Some of that is just the guys they drafted, right? Some of these, I mean, soft's a great example. That's just a type of player who's going to need more time, period. Even in the best of circumstances of them. Like I would say, at least we, we have good, solid evidence that Jaeger Doman's jumper is real and that that's a thing that could potentially carry him for, you know, this initial stage of his career as he figures out what his role is going to be. I certainly didn't think it was going to be this. I didn't think he was going to be this much of like basically a specialist for the Nets. But they've had a weird season and that. That's kind of baked into any tanking team. There's going to be quirks of the rotation. There's going to be guys who get opportunities you don't expect. I just. They're a harder team than most to find the silver lining among that rookie class because I think they've all just been so up and down.
- [57:32]
J. Kyle
If they end up getting a superstar, like a, like, my dog is doing incredible stuff. I'm sorry, I'm. If I'm. My eyes keep darting trying to keep an eye on what he's. I don't know what he's doing.
- [57:43]
Rob Mahoney
Well, you gotta for us. What's going on?
- [57:46]
J. Kyle
Well, we've had a lot of just kind of medical issues. He's kind of getting up and twitching and we're. I think we're good though. Okay. I'm gonna talk to him Da for a minute. All right, Bug. All right. Yeah.
- [57:55]
Justin Varior
If you.
- [57:56]
J. Kyle
If you look at Jagor just really needs to develop some kind of inside the arc presence because, like the shooting you said has been. It's been inverted. I thought that the passing and stuff was the thing would pop and then teams would dare him to shoot. He's just been. He's not been good inside the arc. He's gonna have to figure that out. I trust that he will. I still. Wolf and. And Dillman are still my two. My two favorites among these. They were they. That hasn't really changed. Powell. I don't really know what to make of him. Seraph, I just kind of second Sider. If he ends up not being able to shoot, that just is kind of like a younger version of Vasili Micage to me personally. We'll see how it goes. But those two guys, I trust that Wolf has been a little more competent defensively and hung on better than I thought he would. The shooting is the thing that he's going to have to. To prove that he can hit shots. So those two are my favorite. I don't know if you guys are any different.
- [58:46]
Justin Varior
The like advantage, I guess of the model that they took with the draft, if there is like a consistent theory there is that these guys are on the younger side of draft picks. And so they're all like on the night age 19 season. I think Jaeger just turned 20. Soft is about to turn 20. Traore super young. And so maybe they thought because they don't have the draft pick next year, we'll just take longer term projects and like slowly start to build them. Obviously teams love to get their hands on these guys earlier as opposed to later. And so like as a. Compared to like a Queen, for instance, like, it didn't surprise me that those guys are a little bit farther behind. Having said that, like even Queen, when he has kind of faded down the stretcher, we've seen the moments of him being a potential like all star down the road. I don't think we've seen that with the Nets. And so I don't know what their team is, man. And because this draft pick really, it's it. Unless they could do some work finally in free agency, we'll see if they have enough compiled with like future draft picks maybe. Plus some of these guys are intriguing enough to a team like the Bucks. Obviously. Giannis has already always been kind of like rumored to be in the mix there, wanting to go to a big market. That seems like more of a necessity now, depending on how this draft shakes out than I would like if I was a Nets fan.
- [59:56]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, I think that's entirely fair. Can I give a nice thing that has nothing to do with these young players? Yes, I think. And we haven't seen like it's been kind of touch and go because of these guys in particular. MPJ not always being in the lineup of late, but I think Nick Claxton And Michael Porter Jr. Have real chemistry. And if that's something the Nets want to lean into, they could and be better sooner than later. They just have to have a roster around them that makes sense. But they were the most productive assist combination for the Nets all season. And I say that Claxton to Michael Porter Jr. Because it's tapping into two things that they both do really well. Claxton has been like a good dribble handoff guy for a while. That's been building year over year, even with these wayward net seasons. And of course Michael Porter Jr. Was mainlining handoffs with Nicola Jokic and I think he's a better off ball mover than he gets credit for. And the combination with those guys of, yes, the normal like Claxton at the elbow or at the three point line, handing it off to one of the best shooters in the game. That makes sense. But I think Porter's been really good going back door and really good kind of when teams start over playing that possibility, Claxton's diming him up over the top for layups, where Claxton has more layups or more assists to Porter at the rim than he does for threes. And that to me is like a really productive combination that doesn't just represent these two guys can work together, but they really work together within the context of what Jordy Fernandez wants to do. Do the Nets want to be good and lean into that? Will Michael Porter Jr. Be on the roster next season? I have no earthly idea, but those are two guys who have actually liked watching play together.
- [61:31]
J. Kyle
They need to get Darren Peterson. This team needs to get Darren Peterson. It makes the most sense in a basketball from a basketball standpoint, and I'm trying to keep him at bay.
- [61:43]
Justin Varior
This is great.
- [61:45]
J. Kyle
He normally stays asleep. He's just.
- [61:48]
Rob Mahoney
He heard Darren Peterson. He was Summoned that he must get takes off.
- [61:52]
J. Kyle
He's. I just for the audience. Everybody has dogs. He started having seizures. So I've been keeping an eye on him during group chat. Normally he sleeps the entire time. I might have to let him out to go to the bathroom. I'm not sure what's going on. Anyway, this team needs to get Darren Peterson, in my opinion, because I think he plugs into exactly what they need. You've got all these guys. They should have, they should have bundled one or two of these guys together to, to get. Yeah. The bundle and, and they could have probably even still gotten a couple of the guys that they wanted. But whether it was Geoman or Wolf, because a lot of people think that they drafted Geoman too high. But Peterson would just make a lot of sense for them and I think he would fit with what you're talking about. Claxton and MPJ and then this thing could start to make sense in a hurry, honestly.
- [62:35]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [62:35]
Justin Varior
Well, it's funny you mentioned that about Peterson because I have been wondering. As we go through the rest of the season, it looks like the, the trio of death here, the Pacers, Wizards and the Nets might end up with the best odds. We'll see the, the Kings kind of lurk in there, but it almost feels like the Kings will fuck around and win some late season games just because they really got to show the league what they're all about. You said Peterson for the Nets, for the first two teams, the Wizards and the Pacers, is it like Peterson with a bullet or will it depend on like if the Wizards get the one, for instance, are they thinking more debons it because their personnel, like what do you think for those two teams, man,
- [63:08]
J. Kyle
I think with like the personnel that the Wizards have right now, I think in terms of making them a competent team quickly. I feel I've probably said this on this team a few times. I think Boozer is the answer because I think you could play Boozer next to Sar. Obviously Ad they're not long term. I think Boozer would really support some of the guys that they already have with the, you know, the Carringtons and the Trey Johnsons. I think that he would produce open shots for those guys. And you could. You think of, you think of Boozer as like a high volume score star like we were talking about earlier. And we're like holding. Taking him to task and like measuring his, his aplomb, whatever that. A blum, a plum, a blum, whatever his, his. His acumen as a superstar. And you're kind of just judging him on that. And it's like, I think he would probably be a Kevin Lovey type guy with those dudes. And I think he makes sense. And then you think about, I think Debance. It is a clunky fit with Indiana. Like, I think Boozer fits both of those teams probably better, but they probably figure it out. But yeah, I still, I still think that Peterson is the thing that everybody's going to walk away happy. I think in this top three is. Is my prediction.
- [64:13]
Justin Varior
But who has like, the karma going for them? At one point I thought the Pacers were so, like, light years ahead of everybody because of the Halliburton injury. Like, they deserve the one gap year in order to reset. It seems like they're going to do that.
- [64:26]
Rob Mahoney
Sure.
- [64:26]
Justin Varior
Definitely have made it sure that they're going to like, like, put themselves in position to keep this pick because top five once gets into five and nine range, it goes to the Clippers. Now I'm not so sure because they really have like, really tested the gods here. Rob, is it still like the Pacers deserve the number one pick more than any other team or what do you think?
- [64:47]
Rob Mahoney
Justin deserve has never had anything to do with it. There is no deserving in life. Like, we are just things are foisted upon us beyond what we could ever imagine for ourselves and whatever we could possibly explain. I think with the Pacers, from the moment they traded that pick with those protections, this was the only option. Like there. There is no dignity in winning a couple games and getting the fifth pick and shooting yourself in the foot. So you just have to take the losses. Does that anger the basketball gods? I don't know. I think we've seen enough times that they don't really give a shit about us or anything or fairness. So who's really to say, okay,
- [65:25]
Justin Varior
well, the other team on the other end of the spectrum, which we talked about before, about teams who might be fucked by the flattening of odds, which seems to be in the offing here. The Bulls might be the biggest loser of any changes coming down the pike here because they've seemingly missed the window to outright tank. They're just bad enough to be like the eighth worst team in the NBA. Obviously haven't been a draw in free agency. The trades have been perplexing to say it best, but, man, I just don't. The Bulls, it seems like their situation, Rob, got worse with all these new things kind of in the ether there. I didn't think it was possible, but I feel worse about them even since the deadline.
- [66:09]
Rob Mahoney
Well, what is what has caused that to turn for you? Because they were already not very good.
- [66:14]
Justin Varior
Just doesn't like where, where's the feeder system in order to flip this around? I guess to play devil's advocate on myself, I. I do feel like Buzzellas Giddy and something else is at least the foundation of a competent team like that seems more intriguing than I thought I would feel about them going forward. The fact that they haven't gotten anything out of a Senge this year because he was injured, like, definitely is a little bit more mixed. But Bazelles, I think we would all agree, is probably the nicest thing we could say about them because he's taken us that forward, especially late in the season, as like a real deal guy. I don't know what his ceiling is ultimately, but him and Giddy is also quietly playing even like marginally better than he did last year. Nobody wants to give him the credit, but I will. That's something. But like, where is the next stuff going to come from because you're not getting the top picks. Like, you're not forcing your way to getting like top odds in the draft. They haven't really been a draw in free agency and we don't trust their front office to make true trades in order to get guys in there. So like, where does the next generation of good Bulls teams come from?
- [67:21]
Rob Mahoney
I don't know that this is where the next generation of Bulls teams is coming from, but a part of a potentially good Bulls team I think has emerged over the back part of this season. Like Leonard Miller, I think might be a real player, and that's a guy who was kind of a throw in, in The Rob Dillingham IO Dumumu, four second round picks or whatever mashup of a trade. But it just turned into a piece that I could like actually see as being part of the Bulls in particular because of that framework that you outlined, Justin, which is if you have Giddy and you have Bou Zealous and you have Leonard Miller, who's another like big, lengthy combo forward wing, like that's, that's the kind of like length and savvy that I could see building a team around. I have no idea which guards are going to be here, which ones they're going to keep and pay. It's just like a glut of who knows what at this point. And Billy Donovan's just like, yeah, Colin Sexton, you can run this team as far as I'm concerned, down the stretch of the season, which, bless him, it does make the Bulls a little bit more watchable. But I do think Miller, he's one of these guys who, within the context of how the Bulls play, which is very ball movement oriented, makes a lot of quick decisions, is never like an imposition, right? It's always, I'm going to cut, I'm going to pass, I'm going to shoot with purpose. He's one of these longer for like longer lengthier forwards who actually does rebound that way and is actually like an actual force on the glass and not just like a Jeremy Grant type who's theoretically athletic and theoretically long, but not actually rebounding ever at all. I just see him being a good role player for them. And in that vein, he's the sort of not quite second draft opportunity, but like second chance prospecting that I think the Bulls can do if they scout well, if they trade well, if they mind some of these other rosters where Leonard Miller was on the Wolves doing jack shit, like not getting to play, not getting a chance. When he did get on the floor, it wasn't a good fit. Something about the flow of Chicago's offense, though, I think really does suit him. And defensively, he's kind of an interesting versatile prospect as well.
- [69:22]
Justin Varior
What did you have, Kyle? Did you have Leonard Miller or somebody else?
- [69:25]
J. Kyle
No, not Leonard Miller. I mean, we. The. The Bouzilles thing obviously is something I just had down that they're not squarely in the middle, which is good. They're still only. There's still only the 10th best odds. Don't rule it out, man. I mean, Dallas went from 10 to 1. You know, miracles can happen. You know, that was, you know, you could argue. On the other hand, that was like a once in a lifetime miracle. I was saying they should it really in these hard times where our country's divided, you know, it is nice to see them have some empathy and just give jobs. Giving sanctuary to some smaller score first jobs. That's something that I think is a positive. And I was even saying I think they should probably build a statue outside of the United center, maybe put it right next to mj, A statue of Archeros. And it could say, you know, you know, bring me your tiny. Your scores. We could get a real like small guard, scoring guard, Ellis island thing kind of going here. No, I mean, if they scout well and they play well, there, there could be something in that 9 to 12 range that could help them. Those contracts, I'm joking about them. Are, you know, they're going to Be off the books next year. The deals, you know, it's not part of the long term plan, but I don't know, man. I'm just trying. You're trying, You're. I'm trying, I'm trying. I'm trying to find something.
- [70:36]
Justin Varior
Doing our best. I'll say. This is my thing. Giddy would be third in the NBA and assists this year.
- [70:43]
J. Kyle
Look at that.
- [70:44]
Justin Varior
Just diamond them up. Now. Would he be fourth in turnovers? You're goddamn right he would. Which is important combination. But I. I don't know, I just feel like he's the type of guy who. He's never gonna get credit for the marginal advancements he's had. And yes, a lot of it has tended to come in like low stakes environments or just later in the season. I would say overall he's been pretty solid. Like, the shooting has been fine. Like, I think he's like a league average or above shooter at this point, which has always been kind of a knock on him. Great. And I do think, like, he is a pretty special playmaker. And so he kind of has quietly become like the good version that we had all hoped he'd become. Like, he's not like a. The perfect Shea compliment that I think, like he was miscast as to start his career, but, like, this is kind of what I would expect from like a 20 million a year guy. And like he's that. And so credit to him. God damn it.
- [71:36]
Rob Mahoney
I mean, at the risk of bringing the dark clouds over yet another nice thing. Is it, isn't it kind of sad though, if he became the version we were all hoping, and it means, at least right now, almost nothing that's more
- [71:50]
Justin Varior
a product of the Bulls not having anything that is for him to work with, really. Yeah.
- [71:55]
Rob Mahoney
There's a version of this team with this version of Giddy that does work and makes sense and gives him a little bit more cover for the things that we hold against him, or as you're saying, jv, like the ways in which we don'. Give him credit for the marginal advancements, which are real and I think have been sick, like consistent, not just this season, but over the last two years. You can see this drum beat of him getting a little bit better in some critical aspects of his game.
- [72:18]
Justin Varior
All right, should we move on to the Bucks?
- [72:19]
Rob Mahoney
Let's do.
- [72:20]
Justin Varior
Probably. I mean, somehow the saddest of all of these teams just because, like down the stretch has gotten in in addition to the losing and the whole Giannis fiasco has gotten even messier than you'd ever imagine where like the players association is coming in and being like he's healthy enough to play too good and
- [72:39]
Rob Mahoney
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- [72:41]
J. Kyle
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- [73:14]
Justin Varior
That's a great attitude.
- [73:16]
J. Kyle
It's a time traveling ass kicking movie event. You sound insane. Starring Vince Vaughn, James Marston and Asa Gonzalez.
- [73:24]
Rob Mahoney
I thought you were a clone.
- [73:25]
J. Kyle
Well, clones aren't real dummy and time
- [73:27]
Justin Varior
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- [73:29]
J. Kyle
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- [73:36]
Justin Varior
And the Bucks are like, no, I don't think so. Then Doc Rivers is in the middle of all of it being like, not my fault, not my fault. It's just guys are. Guys aren't healthy. It's just like fuck off Doc. Like, and so like one of my nice things that I have down here is basically that Doc is probably going to get fired and we don't have to deal with him again. That's a nice thing when he shows up on a ringer podcast and is now my manager. No, I've never been a Doc guy and I just find that he is worse in these type of situations when things are going poorly. He kind of like puts the preserver on himself before he deals with anybody else. And it kind of seems like that's what we're getting again.
- [74:15]
Rob Mahoney
I think the contrast of these two situations too where you look at what's going on with the Bulls and it's really clearly not Billy Donovan's fault. Like I think he's mostly done a pretty good job with a pretty flawed roster to the point that he now apparently, if you, if you buy into the rumor mill, might have some opportunities to take the exit door if he so chooses, versus you look at what's happened with Milwaukee. And I'm not saying this is Doc Rivers fault, but he has done almost nothing to salvage the situation. I here's the thing, I want to say this. What he said about the Bucks getting Unlucky with their health over the course of the season is not like fundamentally untrue. Obviously, if you lean this much on Giannis and Giannis gets hurt, your team is kind of cooked. And I say that especially because my one nice thing is that the Bugs did do the most critical part of building a team without Giannis, which they built a roster that can really fucking shoot and they just don't have the guy, or at least haven't for large stretches of the season to anchor the middle and go downhill and take advantage of all that space. But when you look across like six different Bucs rotation players are shooting 40 plus percent from three, that's insane. That's a crazy outcome. I want to break it down like some of those pieces. A.J. green, we all know that guy can just shoot the hell out of it. That's not a new development. Ryan Rollins has made more threes this season than Kevin Durant at the same percentage in the same number of games he's made. He's made more threes than Desmond Bain at a better percentage. And this is a guy who coming in, a lot of people were skeptical if he could shoot at all. And it's just turned himself into a really reliable one. Granted a lot of that stuff is spot up, but even some of the off, off the dribble attempts have been fruitful. Taurean Prince, I mean, I have my misgivings about him as an all around player, but one of the most consistent corner shooters in the league, Miles Turner and Bobby Portis somehow are both among the most prolific stretch bigs in the league right now. In terms of the threes made. Usman Jang can shoot. All of a sudden it's like the reverse Orlando. You go to Milwaukee and all of a sudden your percentage jumps by five points relative to whatever it was. Gary Harris is alive. Gary Trent Jr. Just hit nine threes the other night. Like this is just a team that bangs in shots and doesn't know what to do with any of it. And from that perspective, I am somewhat sympathetic to the doc perspective of like if only you had Giannis with all this shooting with everything. If everything had gone right, of course your season would look a lot better. Nothing has gone right for Milwaukee overall except for this one thing, which is they can hit these specific shots and it means relatively little.
- [76:50]
J. Kyle
Yeah, they needed to start running the motion offense or something. I don't know how they're going to work around not having it's. It could be an interesting. Yeah, Zhang. Zhang is the guy that I had Written down. You know, he's shown little. He's still only 22 years old. I think he's grown since he's been in the NBA. Because I was watching him. I forget who he was standing next to the other night. I was like, he looks like he's like 611 now. He's. He's gigantic. He's a little chaotic, but he just looks smooth with the ball. That was another little silver lining for them. A less serious one I had here. Is that their. Their vintage. Like, they're. They're. Cartoon deer is among the best logos, I think, in the history of the sport. Those old colors. I still don't know about Cream City. I was going to tell you guys. Cream City probably, you know, you could argue the Cream problematic. Cream City. That's what happened for Justin when that Mullen shop went down. I had that here. But no, I don't.
- [77:43]
Justin Varior
That's why they call me Dairy Bird. Flashes. Great. Good for him. I guess, in Doc's defense, yes, this. The ceiling was always so low for this team. It was basically give Giannis a fighting chance and then we'll figure it out from there. Yeah. And so we're already starting from a place of low expectations. Practically, since he walked in the door, this thing has been fucked. And so he came back into a really tough situation. Having said that, like, I just. If you just didn't do the Dame wave and stretch, this would have been such a. A much better situation. This, Even this summer, like, you could trade a potentially healthy going into next season Dame for something. Right. You could clear the salary or you get like some actual players. But the fact that they have his cap hold based off of whatever percentage it is that stretched out over the five years, plus Miles Turner, who's like, fine, I. This is just going to keep getting worse going into the summer. Like, I. I just don't know how they salvage this. But I will say my one nice thing on. On the docket here was that one of their owners came out and was like, we're either going to extend Giannis or trade him, which was at the very least something more firm than I have seen from this organization in over a year at this point now, he can't be extended until October 1, which means that they have to go through a whole off season before they get penned to paper. But at the very least, he's. He's extended with them in the past. And so, like, they can believe him. If he is going to extend and he will. We're at the very least Going to get something happening here so we could finally move on with our lives. Giannis, I would assume we'll be traded, but if not, just go ahead and make the best of it and just shut the fuck up, because I'm just, like, kind of tired with this entire thing.
- [79:34]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah. Do you think after the Players association has had to arbitrate whether Giannis should be playing or not, that it makes it more or less likely that he extends with them? Like, is this. Is this relationship not fully cooked?
- [79:46]
Justin Varior
Well, put on my conspiracy theory hat as I take off my Yukon Championship hat.
- [79:51]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [79:53]
Justin Varior
Have to wonder how much that was intentional in order to perhaps, like, make it uncomfortable for him in order to ask out this off season, because they have been on this, like, weird staring contest for a couple months here where it's like, someone has to be the bad guy and, like, they would be better off rebooting rather than, like, trying to, what, trade the 2032 draft pick over this summer for the equivalent of Kyle Kuzma? I. That didn't seem unintentional, I'll say.
- [80:21]
Rob Mahoney
So you. You think that's the Bucks trying to nudge Giannis to ask out and not Giannis taking the opportunity to make the Bucks look like the bad guys so that he could. I guess it's the same outcome either way, right?
- [80:33]
Justin Varior
I think. I think the Bucks are holding his feet to the fire intentionally, and they need the draft pick. Like, that's. That is probably the future of their franchise. Plus, whatever they trade him for, like, that's. Should be the North Stars, whatever draft pick they get this year.
- [80:48]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [80:51]
Justin Varior
All right. That's all the nice stuff we could say about them. That wasn't even that nice. It was barely nice. Yeah.
- [80:56]
Rob Mahoney
You. You were firing Doc Rivers as one half of your nice thing had, like,
- [81:00]
J. Kyle
a lot of sound bites in that one. Yeah.
- [81:04]
Rob Mahoney
Can we hear Justin, though, about, you know, the one rebuild that really matters, which is what's going on with your bathroom renovation right now.
- [81:11]
Justin Varior
Oh, man. This one might be more disappointing than. Than what's happening with the Bucks, unfortunately, because I sit here today in the same spot where I left you guys, where no progress was made, unfortunately, because what ended up happening is, you know, when, like, you're constantly thinking about something, but you finally, like, sit down, like, put everything else aside, and you have that level of clarity on something that you previously didn't. Well, that was me last week when, like, work stopped, and I looked at the bathroom, and I'm like, oh, shit. Like, there's piping here. That Looks a little older than it should be. I should get a plumber to come out here and take a look at that. Wall's open. Let's just. Literally, the wall has been open for two months. And I finally decided now is the time to do that. Well, it took like until Thursday to get the plumber out here. Now he's going to come back tomorrow morning. And so no progress was made there, unfortunately. But I did replace my garden beds with some nice metal ones.
- [82:06]
Rob Mahoney
Okay.
- [82:07]
Justin Varior
I was out there digging, literally hands in the dirt. And also compost started to smell a little bit after the fact. Replacing four garden beds, tearing those bitches out, throwing the wood into a different part of the yard because just moving it a couple feet psychologically meant something to me. And then replacing them with these nice. These metal ones that I screwed in screw by screw. There's like 50 screws on these things. My hands are a little raw from them, but those.
- [82:37]
J. Kyle
Rob and I are talking about rock bands. Just wanted to.
- [82:42]
Justin Varior
This is what the people want, man.
- [82:44]
J. Kyle
It is.
- [82:44]
Rob Mahoney
It is genuinely what the people want.
- [82:47]
Justin Varior
Maybe. Yeah.
- [82:48]
Rob Mahoney
So I don't want you to shortchange Justin. I mean, the clarity in that moment of what you actually need to do with your bathroom, that's an important step forward. You know, the acceptance that you can't do it all, that you do need a plumber on occasion. The DIY Justin sometimes needs to be sent to the bench so the pros can come in. I think that's an important step for you.
- [83:07]
J. Kyle
That's Justin finding out Jay Huff's not going to be part of the rotation. That's the same.
- [83:13]
Justin Varior
I also became a hardcore espresso guy over my break.
- [83:16]
Rob Mahoney
How were you not already?
- [83:18]
J. Kyle
It's surprising because in the coffee already. Didn't we have a long conversation about that?
- [83:22]
Justin Varior
I am, but I've always been like a straight coffee guy. Like, yes, fancy carafe and pour over style sort of dude. But like, coffee at this point, like, affects me like water does. And I was like, I either need to go all the way forward, become an espresso guy, or go all the way backwards and just not drink coffee. That wasn't an option because I'm addicted. And I in. The best thing is, like, I instantly got all of the fancy accessories and the nice maker and like, I'm like, dialed in from the jump. And much like you guys, perhaps if you were in your own little indie band, just like getting all the fancy moogs and all the effects pedals. Like, I got all.
- [84:00]
Rob Mahoney
So many pedals.
- [84:03]
Justin Varior
Yeah. I got all the little filters and the little stir shit. So, like, espresso guy. That's what I did. I became a real man over my brain.
- [84:14]
Rob Mahoney
Are you just going around town telling people about your polls, your espresso polls? Is that what's happening right now?
- [84:19]
Justin Varior
Now? No, I save it for podcast content, as you must. It's.
- [84:24]
J. Kyle
Really don't want to burn that valuable stuff.
- [84:28]
Justin Varior
I think that's everything I did.
- [84:31]
Rob Mahoney
So you drank, you made coffee, and you called a plumber.
- [84:36]
Justin Varior
I. I swapped out some garden beds and I got some roofs to take a look at. My roof. I need to replace a roof Rop. Okay, that's fair.
- [84:43]
J. Kyle
Easy. We have something going on over here.
- [84:47]
Rob Mahoney
And in fairness, you listen to Kyle and I podcast, which we appreciate.
- [84:51]
Justin Varior
Well, like the first, like, 15 minutes.
- [84:53]
Rob Mahoney
Wow.
- [84:55]
J. Kyle
I never listen when I'm not on the show, so, you know, I'm not offended by that.
- [84:59]
Justin Varior
Kyle's legitimately offended. Like, he's trying to. To play it off. But I could tell that he's. He's hurt here.
- [85:05]
J. Kyle
No, you're. I have a nice force field. Your little. Your little lasers of.
- [85:10]
Justin Varior
They don't.
- [85:11]
J. Kyle
They don't reach me. I know who I am. I'm comfortable. We've come this far.
- [85:13]
Rob Mahoney
We're good. Justin, I can assure you, you can't hurt you. I used to be in a ska band. Justin, Barrier cannot hurt us with your indie rock takes. It's just we're. We simply can't be harmed in that particular way that's behind.
- [85:27]
Justin Varior
I'm listening to smooth jazz while getting my hands in the dirt in a. In a garden. All right, my friend.
- [85:32]
J. Kyle
Man, I love that.
- [85:35]
Justin Varior
Let's wrap it there. We'll be back on Thursday with the second part of this. We'll talk about five teams from the west. Thank you to Isaiah Blakely. Thank you to Ben Cruz. Thank you to Victoria Valencia. We will talk to you next time,
- [86:01]
Rob Mahoney
Sam.