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The Ringer NBA Show
Say One Nice Thing … About the West’s Tanktastic Bottom Five. Plus, Wemby Goes Off Again.
01:10:46
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- [00:00]
Justin Varier
Foreign. Hello and welcome to Group Chat. I am Justin Varier, and joining me, Rob Mahoney. The great Rob Mahoney. Does that honorary title come with, like, a sash or maybe like the key to the east side of Los Angeles?
- [00:29]
Rob Mahoney
I think you have to tell me because you literally just made it up. So what are you giving me?
- [00:33]
Justin Varier
I've heard that on many a podcast.
- [00:35]
Rob Mahoney
Come on. Come on.
- [00:36]
Justin Varier
You're. You're great.
- [00:37]
Rob Mahoney
I am merely regular Rob Mahoney here to talk today about some unfortunately irregular NBA teams. But it's that point in the season, Justin, you know, we got to dispense with these teams that we're not going to be talking about for a while.
- [00:48]
Justin Varier
That's right. We're going to be talking about the Western Conference edition of our say One Nice Thing series. We did the Eastern Conference team, the bottom five in the east on Monday. We're going to do the bottom five of the west now on here on Thursday, just you and I. But first, we got to talk about something that isn't bad. We got to talk about something that's potentially historically great already, which is Victor Webanyama, who last night put up 41 as if it was nothing. I think for a while now, we've kind of talked about the Wemby come up. He's made multiple leaps, it feels like, in the season, making a real run for MVP and is very proud of the fact that he is very much in the thick of this race. We'll talk about that, what, probably next week or the week after, we'll make our actual picks. My thing last night that really jumped out to me is like, I almost feel like I can't miss a Wemby game at this point. It's becoming very Steph Curry prime. Like, where it's like, this is appointment viewing no matter who he's playing against.
- [01:49]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, I mean, he has something similar to Steph in just a weird, counterintuitive way where when you would watch Steph play, I would say, especially when he's really cooking, whether that's in his prime or kind of one of these later career games where he just absolutely goes off. There's that, like, background feeling of at any point he could spring around a screen and get a three. Like, he could be open. It doesn't matter who has the ball, doesn't matter what a possession looks like. At any moment, something exciting could happen. And Wemby, I feel like, brings a lot of that same high drama to defense. And it's like if he's on the floor. We've seen him cover so much ground. We've seen him block a Kevin Durant turnaround. We've seen him blow up things at the rim. We've seen him take away three pointers. Like, it feels like he can get to anything. Anything. And so every time I'm watching him, it's like there is a step factor of like, could an amazing play happen at any time? And also kind of a Yanis factor as far as like, how much ground he can cover very quickly and what looks like a layup could suddenly be a dunk. I don't know how you tune out on this guy. I don't. I don't know how you would, you know, whatever you think of him as a player or the spurs and their contending chances, it feels like as a, as an aesthetic product, Justin, as if as a basketball experience, he should have kind of a universal approval rating. The Ringer NBA show is brought to you by FanDuel. The NBA post season is here and FanDuel knows the only thing better than watching your favorite team win is winning along with them. FanDuel is the best place to bet the teams, players and plays during their playoff run. Build the same game parlay or try live betting and jump in after tip off. Don't forget, with FanDuel you get paid instantly when you win. Download the FanDuel sportsbook app now and play your game 21 plus in select states 18 plus for DC, Kentucky or Wyoming a gambling problem? Call 1-1-800, gambler, call 1-887-897777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut.
- [03:34]
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- [05:04]
Justin Varier
It's crazy because if you didn't catch last night's game, and I don't blame you if you didn't tune in because it was against a very depleted warriors team at the end of the game, Malavay Leon's, your boy had to take a left handed free throw just because they didn't have enough bodies to throw out there. And so things are going quite poorly for the Warri for that reason. Like, I tuned in from the beginning, saw that Wemby was cooking a little bit, but you know, just take that one off right? Move along. We had to watch a lot of bad basketball in order to prepare for the other end of this podcast. But then all of a sudden you, you like pick up the box score or people are texting you. He has a real like group chat mvp, small G, small C. Not our group chat, of course. Like you and your friends group chat. You're like, you see what Wemby did? Like, are you watching what is going on?
- [05:49]
Rob Mahoney
Like maybe, maybe he is the mvp, right? I. I think that's it. It has to be both. It is. He is the guy who is lighting up your lowercase g, lowercase C group chats, but also competing for the biggest stuff there is to compete for. And that combination, I mean that's what drives the league. That is what makes you potentially the face of the NBA for years to come. It's what puts you at the center of every conversation.
- [06:12]
Justin Varier
Yeah, the craziest thing, if you didn't watch the full game, I would go back and just pull up the highlight package, because the first one of the reel that I saw was just like, blow your wig back. Like something that you just can't see elsewhere, which is that he catches it on the perimeter. I believe Pajinsky is trying to attempt to close out. And Wemby does, like, the jab in the different direction, gets by him quickly, almost as if he is a 6, 6 wing player. And then gets in like, drives to the basket on the left side, is dribbling with his left, is suspended in midair, switches hands and then drills it gets an and one off of that. And I'm just like, this guy is 7 4. He's literally one of the biggest players not only in the league, but that we've seen play in the league. And he's just doing things as if he had the mobility and athleticism of something like Steph. And so I'm just like, he just. Every single game, it's something I've never seen before. And I have to imagine, like, if we're talking about the big picture discussion about the league, about, like, oh, man, tanking. This is going wrong. That is going wrong. At the very least, we have this. And I wonder if if, like, he is our shining beacon of hope of, like, if people want to turn this thing around. Like, this might be the guy. This, if anything, it has to be the guy.
- [07:25]
Rob Mahoney
Probably. Yeah. I think you need someone who feels as singular as he does to turn a lot of this conversation. And yeah, you can revamp the tanking odds. You can, you know, go through with expansion. There's lots of ways to have, like, new, shiny things happening, but none of it's going to feel as new and as shiny as this because of what you're saying. That that quality that he's doing, things that even for people who watch a ton of basketball, feel unique on a. On a nightly basis. He almost defies Justin. Like, do you remember when NBA teams were evaluating prospects with, like, a freeze frame test? It would be like they pause a play midway through and it's like, how does this play finish? And it's a good way to. To test, like, what a prospect anticipates. Okay, this rotation is going to come over. This guy's going to kick for the three. And if you've seen enough basketball, play enough basketball, you know those patterns. Wemby just defies the freeze frame test. If you, if you freeze, if you froze that play you're describing with Pajemski at the three point line on the catch, there's no way you could possibly predict, oh, he's going to drive contort, get met with a body and then switch hands midair for a finish that no player his size has ever done before. And if that's kind of the baseline of who he can be, I think the NBA is in a pretty good place ultimately. Like, there's a lot that needs to be sorted out. There's. I mean, like, I don't know what the NBA is doing in Europe. I don't know what all these initiatives are. Bring. Clearly the answer is bring Europe here. It's bring Victor Wembanyama to the NBA and let us watch him on a regular basis.
- [08:49]
Justin Varier
I want to get to that later because the France lineup, like who he's going to be playing with and like the types of player is actually pretty fascinating. But spurs on a completely other level probably than any other team. Like the Thunder have played well, but the spurs just seem like the team of destiny at this point as we're recording this already on another win streak, 10 in a row. Just the competition hasn't been great and obviously it's March now into April basketball. And so there are some caveats there. But man, I just can't remember a team that's picked up this sort of head of steam going into the playoffs because the Pacers are probably the obvious comp. But as we talked about at length last year, like, there's a lot of like holes to poke in there or like, I don't think people perked up until they won not only one, but probably even two series in last season's postseason. This time it almost feels like we know what's coming. Like the trailers have been out there and I'm getting to the point where it's like, how long can we ignore the fact that like, this team seems to be special? Just right now, I don't know how you're thinking overall in terms of just like the big picture title race. But like, are you like, should we be talking about the spurs being perhaps the favorite, not just like the spoiler?
- [09:57]
Rob Mahoney
I mean, that feels disrespectful to the Thunder, who have proven everything you can prove. I think they rightly have that claim right now. I wouldn't be surprised if something crazy happens if Wemby goes on a run, if the spurs go on a run. I think one of those weird buffers and inefficiencies that's just kind of like hanging in midair that we're all trying to figure out if it's going to mean anything. Wimby doesn't have to play a ton right now. Like, they've managed him throughout the season. They've also been up in so many of these games where they don't have to push him. Like, this is an MVP candidate averaging 29 minutes a game. And so what happens when Wimby plays 40 minutes a game? And how good are the spurs when, with all due respect to Luke Cornett or like Harrison Barnes at the 5 or kind of whatever's happening on a nightly basis, they stretch one of the best players in the league as far as he can possibly go? Like, that is a terrifying possibility that I think suggests, as you're alluding to that, for as good as they've been on these win streaks, there's a version of the spurs right now that's even better than anything we've seen.
- [10:56]
Justin Varier
Right. And I guess the counter that, like, a. A True Blue contender who's proven, it would probably say, is like, oh, let's see him stretch out into 10 additional, and then play in these rigorous playoff games, like, what, two days apart or whatever it is. Like, could it actually flip the other way and that he's not, like, built right now in terms of his conditioning in order to be optimized in the playoff setting? We'll see. But you're right. It could just as easily be he warps the court now for 10 more minutes a game, and what will that say about both sides of the ball? And, like, could the spurs actually hit another level? Could they be, like, one of these March Madness teams that just, like, catches fire and all of a sudden they're built for this specific type of basketball, and all of a sudden this person. Even better.
- [11:37]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah. Particularly when this is kind of another Steph parallel with him. I feel like Steph and the warriors within their era sort of led the conversation and the trend of the league in terms of who is allowed to play. Like, there basically became a whole brand of centers because of Steph that are like, they can't get out high enough and pick and roll. They can't keep contact, they can't keep touch. They. They're just dead in the water. We can't afford to play, you know, like your. Your Omer Ashik types, your Ennis Canter types, you know, they just kind of fell off the face of the earth. Wby is almost at the other side of that, where the warriors in this game on, you know, getting a taste of their own medicine, are like, I guess we just have to have Omar Y7 on the floor every minute. He possibly can because we desperately need the size. What happens to some of these other teams when they don't have the bigs to, to keep on the floor with Wemby? What happens to these teams when they're the one big or the two bigs that they rely on get in foul trouble and all of a sudden they have to downsize? And, you know, we've seen what Wemby can do against those kinds of matchups. So I think he's just one of these players who opens up a lot of these exciting possibilities and is, I would say, the fundamental reason why I can't wait for the playoffs. Like, I just can't wait to see him go through all these tests regardless of whether he succeeds or fails.
- [12:49]
Justin Varier
It's the Shaq factor is what you're talking about is like, do teams now, even in this upcoming draft, need to overdraft big? They just need some guys on their roster. Like, could, could Wemby basically be a job creator for the large and unemployable right now?
- [13:03]
Rob Mahoney
Well, we need some, you know, they must, they must be created somewhere.
- [13:07]
Justin Varier
All right, why don't we take a quick break and we come back. Let's talk about some of these bad teams.
- [13:12]
Rob Mahoney
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- [13:53]
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- [15:25]
Rob Mahoney
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- [15:57]
Justin Varier
we're going to talk about some bad teams now, even though they don't deserve it.
- [16:02]
Rob Mahoney
But at the very least, don't they all deserve it?
- [16:05]
Justin Varier
No, no, I would say the west deserve it more than the east because these teams, a lot of the poor results that have matriculated over the back end of the season have just been like basic ineptitude, I guess, especially for like a team like the Pelicans. But I would say there's some respectable tanking going on here for most of them. Maybe not the Kings, maybe not the Jazz, but you can make the case at the very least, like these teams didn't intend to be bad, they just
- [16:33]
Rob Mahoney
ended up being bad I guess that's a comfort, right? It's not intentional, we swear.
- [16:40]
Justin Varier
Yes, but let's talk about the Dallas Mavericks, a team that didn't expect to be bad going into the season. I think they had high hopes that they would go quite far in the postseason based on some of the trades they made last season. What's interesting about Dallas is I feel like every two or three weeks I look up and Mark Cuban's on another podcast, which, who could blame him? There's a lot of them out there.
- [17:00]
Rob Mahoney
There are.
- [17:01]
Justin Varier
But he has really gone on a media blitz unlike anything I have seen in recent NBA history to completely divorce himself from the fact that he knowingly got off of the team ownership. He dealt that to somebody else, and then they did whatever they wanted with the team and broke up his beautiful construction and traded Luke. And I get it, because clearly he's affected by that and he didn't see this coming. On the other hand, like, once you sell a team to someone, you kind of left to whatever they want. That's kind of how this works. It just seems like he's completely blindsided that. But I think the thing that's jumped out to me about this most recent one, one is that he threw Jason Kidd under the bus. And two, I'm looking at this from an outsider's perspective, thinking like, oh, everyone else is pretty sick of this Mark Cuban tour as well. But it seems like when you check in with Mavs fans, they're like, go get J, kid. Like, they're back to sharpening the sickles and ready to bury Cuban and. Or, excuse me, a kid and anybody else underneath the Dirk statue outside the arena. I don't know if you're picking up on this from your. Your Dallas feelers out there.
- [18:07]
Rob Mahoney
Well, I would say a couple things. One, in Mark Cuban's semi defense, not even really defense, but just as a way to explain, I think if you poll sports fans broadly and even people in the greater Dallas Fort Worth metroplex about who owns the Dallas Mavericks. A lot of people still think Mark Cuban owns the Dallas Mavericks. And that's what comes with being, like, a highly visible owner for as long as he was. So I get wanting to distance yourself from the literal worst trade in NBA history and maybe the worst trade in the history of professional sports, and just going on every public, like, forum imaginable and saying, hey, guess what? This was not me. It was these other guys. I think that's pretty. A pretty understandable stance to take. Is it a little overplayed if you're hearing all of it in succession. Yes. Is it notable that he included Jason Kidd this particular time? It is, because it's true that Jason Kidd was involved in this trade, and it would not have happened without his cosign. So let's get it on the record, you know, let's call it what it is. Nico Harrison took a lot of flack, rightly so, and ultimately lost his job because of this trade. And. And Jason Kidd just continues to coach the Dallas Mavericks as if nothing has happened. I think it's worth noting that that's a little odd.
- [19:21]
Justin Varier
I just thought we moved on, you know, I thought the Nico firing was enough blood in the water, honestly, just
- [19:28]
Rob Mahoney
like you're sorely mistaken. Really?
- [19:30]
Justin Varier
It's that bad, huh?
- [19:31]
Rob Mahoney
Dallas. Dallas. Look, we. We all need to accept this is one of those trades that, at least locally, there will never be. Moving on. Like, Cooper Flag could become the best player in the world, and Mavs could win the title, and there will still be complaining about the Luca Doncha trade. That's just what it's going to be. And so Jason Kidd clearly agrees with you, and that's been. His response to these questions has been like, can we please move on from this trade that happened so, so long ago in NBA terms now. But I think that's wishful thinking, to be honest with you, man.
- [20:00]
Justin Varier
I just heard that, like, Dallas is putting a bunch of trails everywhere. You familiar with this?
- [20:06]
Rob Mahoney
Like, what are you talking about?
- [20:08]
Justin Varier
Literally, I saw this today, perhaps because I've been digging so deep into the Cuban fiasco that, like, Dallas is putting trails all around the city as a way to completely, like, re. Energize the downtown area.
- [20:22]
Rob Mahoney
Okay.
- [20:23]
Justin Varier
So that there's. It's more walkable. Because I'm sure, as you know, I've only been there a couple times. It's like, it's tough to get around, especially outside of a car. Even being downtown, you're just like, why are all these buildings towering over me? I feel very claustrophobic here. And I saw it because someone's like, this is what Portland should do. Just put a bunch of trails everywhere, and then everything will be walkable and everything will be great. So are people excited about the trails? I guess not.
- [20:47]
Rob Mahoney
Well, I would say Dallas already has some great walking trails. Clearly, there's a need for more. Are walking trails going to revitalize a downtown that barely exists as a downtown in a transplant, sprawling city? I'm going to guess no. But I'm not an urban planner, Justin, so, you know, ultimately, what does my
- [21:02]
Justin Varier
Opinion mean, just get out on the trail, guys. Just stop worrying about Luca and what he's doing with the Lakers. Everything will be better off. Well, I do wonder overall, because I saw the Dallas Mavericks here last week in Portland. I am wondering to myself how quickly this thing can turn around. Because I look at this team, I'm like, this is at least in terms of the parts, specifically a higher end team than is typically winning only 20 games this year.
- [21:27]
Rob Mahoney
Sure.
- [21:28]
Justin Varier
Like, I. I think if I'm saying one nice thing about the Dallas Mavericks, I found myself during that game wondering how quickly can this turn around, Especially because of a lot of what they need is just someone who could actually handle the ball. And Kyrie, presumably will be back next year and ready to fill that void. As you're watching the Mavericks, does it seem like that too? Like, they do have a chalk outline of a. Not a serious contender, but at the very least, a competitive team that would probably be playing Ish.
- [21:55]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah. I mean, if you include Kyrie in that picture, of course, everything looks and feels a lot better. But I have to say on a nightly basis, in terms of what it feels like to actually watch this team, I found it to be among the worst experiences of basically any team in the league at this point. Like, they're just. They're just not enjoyable to go through this part of the process with. And I say that because, you know, like, even the good players there that you're penciling in as being part of the future of the Mavs and the good version that they'll put out on the floor next season, presumably they're just, like, overtaxed and put in weird spots and made uncomfortable by the circumstances. It's just like, I don't like watching any of these guys doing what they're currently doing. And sometimes that's just what tanking looks like. But in this case, tanking looks like going 2 and 15 in March. Half of those games, half of those losses were by 20 or more. And so it's just like they're getting run off the floor by teams who even remotely know what they're doing or even remotely have a lineup that makes sense. And yes, the healthy future version of the Mavericks I do think will be quite interesting. This version right now, even on our One Nice Thing episode. We're gonna dig in. We're gonna find the nice things, but I'm. I'm not having a good time.
- [23:06]
Justin Varier
So this is presumably the starting lineup going into next season. It'd be Kyrie, you assume, max, Christie, Cooper, P.J. washington, I assume, at the four, and then lively and Gafford in some sort of rotation. We'll see about Lively. Haven't seen him for a very long time. I think the injuries are becoming a very big concern there. But that's the five. Like, on paper, that's not terrible. I will say Max Christie has not shot the ball well over the past month or two, which is unfortunate because he really was shooting the COVID off the ball around like the new year. And when he's not doing that, you're just kind of left wanting. Here's where I ultimately ended up. I think it, like, it looks nice. I think it all fits together a little bit more easily than you typically would. Unfortunately, I think a lot of these parts still seem to fit Luka and Kyrie doing everything in a way that I wonder if Cooper Flag is going to struggle to fill that specific type of void. He's clearly awesome. He could be an all Star as soon as next season. I mean, even if things go right, we're talking maybe fringe, all NBA.
- [24:05]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [24:07]
Justin Varier
But it just feels a little too rigid as I look across the team. And I wonder if what you actually need with Flag are guys more like him who are versatile, who could play in different combinations. And so pivoting to Flag is probably more of an effort than just like, having good talent on the roster.
- [24:23]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, you can see the two versions of the Mavericks kind of at odds in that way, where, yeah, there are the relics of even PJ Washington, who's like a somewhat versatile forward or in theory, lively when he comes back, and Gafford, like, those are all vestiges of the team that went to the NBA Finals with Luca. And then there's some of these newer guys that I think do fit the bill in the way you're describing. Yeah, there are the Max Christie and Clay type specialists. But if I'm zooming in on one nice thing with this team, Justin, like, Najee Marshall has to be my nice thing. I love watching Najee play. And frankly, I just think. I think he's going to be a champion at some point. I don't know if it's going to be in Dallas, where he apparently wants to stay. But, like, he does so many useful things in so many different ways that you can just imagine him, like, being the resourceful role player that turns a Game 3 of an NBA Finals. Like, he just has that kind of, like, that kind of aptitude for the moment and that kind of skill set where he can dig in and find, you know, just what you need to get through a particular stretch. He can bring up the ball and get you into your offense. He can help like connect dots if you need him to be a secondary playmaker yet he can't really shoot, but he's improvisational enough on the drive. And I think the most important thing is he feels like the kind of role player who really helps you get the low hanging fruit. Like if you watch Naji Marshall the outlet passer, he's just like one of the best and most willing outlet passers in the game. Which then gets Cooper easy points within gets like the Dallas athletes some opportunities to stay out of the half court offense. I just see all this stuff and I'm like this is a winning championship level player. And whether he gets a chance to participate on a team like that mostly depends on the Mavericks front office it seems like at this point. But they should be thrilled that they have him and have him for at least one more year under contract.
- [26:06]
Justin Varier
Not mistaken. Wasn't Najee Marshall the one nice thing we all agreed upon last year when we did this?
- [26:11]
Rob Mahoney
Was it really?
- [26:12]
Justin Varier
Because I have faint memories of him basically being the point guard down the stretches that were really leaning into the tank.
- [26:18]
Rob Mahoney
He still is kind of now sometimes too, more often than anyone would like, but he's doing his damnedest.
- [26:24]
Justin Varier
That's sick. Yes, everyone loves Naji Marshall after he I believe did the game here in Portland and he got the walk off interview, but it was for the Chinese media and he gave the full two handed handshake as he went by. And the reporter who was doing the stand up there was very, very pleased by that. She's like, that's the first time someone's actually done that. And so Najee Marshall, good player, more
- [26:48]
Rob Mahoney
importantly good guy and bringing cultures together. You know, really the force that unites all of us in bad Dallas Mavericks basketball is Najee Marshall.
- [26:57]
Justin Varier
He saw those Chinese sponsorship opportunities lining up just by one stand up and
- [27:01]
Rob Mahoney
yeah, don't turn your nose up at that. You know, lots of players digging in, opening their wallets these days.
- [27:07]
Justin Varier
Another nice thing just to throw it out there, Dwight Powell still kicking man, still doing it, still starting somehow clearly because they're so depleted at center. But my man is 34 years old. I feel like two to three years ago we're like up probably it for Dwight Powell. But you might not have Luca being there as like a virtually end to end maverick that you could build like a statue around. But like Dwight Powell close to that. This guy is so old that he was part of the Rajan Rondo trade and just never left.
- [27:39]
Rob Mahoney
Well, let me correct you there. It's the Dwight Powell trade that involved Rajon Rondo. Like one of those players has become a seminal Dallas maverick and the other one got his playoff share cut and was ejected into orbit.
- [27:51]
Justin Varier
I missed those times. Players were just, we're just like total ragamuffins just doing whatever, you know, they're
- [27:58]
Rob Mahoney
there, look, they're still around. They're sometimes in the news. There's just crazy stuff happening in the NBA all the time.
- [28:04]
Justin Varier
That's true. Rajan Rondo, professional. What is it? Flag football player. I think he's, he's at the pinnacle of the sport. I don't know if he's been. Yes, I think he's like. There was something where he's like ranked number one as the flag football quarterback in the world.
- [28:20]
Rob Mahoney
Congratulations to him. Five star flag football recruitment.
- [28:23]
Justin Varier
There's always a second act to life.
- [28:25]
Rob Mahoney
There really is.
- [28:26]
Justin Varier
That's the takeaway. All right, why don't we go to the Memphis Grizzlies?
- [28:31]
Rob Mahoney
Actually, before, before we do Justin, I want to throw out one more like just a lob as far as one more nice thing with the Mavs because this guy took a lot of flack over the years, has become the butt of a lot of jokes. Marvin Bagley is good.
- [28:45]
Justin Varier
Wow.
- [28:46]
Rob Mahoney
I mean, he's a march. Let me qualify. Well, I think he's a real life rotation player now and I would not have said that even as recently as last season, even while he was doing a version of this thing with the Grizzlies and before that, a version of this thing with the Wizards. When I do watch these Mavs games, I feel like there's a palpable difference when he steps on the floor, the energy that he is bringing, the like, I think the relentlessness that he's playing within these minutes, even the fact that he's apparently now a three point shooter and just like knocking these things down. I just see a future for Marvin Bagley where, yeah, he's not taking Lively or Gafford spot anytime soon, but as a, you know, a safety. Big to have coming up your bench. If the Mavs could be so lucky, I think they'd be wise to keep him around.
- [29:26]
Justin Varier
You know, I want to crack jokes and I, I might still. But it does say something about a player who was picked second overall who reinvents himself as just a backup to whomever, even to Dwight Powell. And I have to say, like Marvin Bagley, there have been times where like he Seems solid. He could play 15 minutes in a rotation now, a high end rotation, maybe not, but like he's an NBA player and that's saying something because especially as James Wisman just like disappears from the league and these guys go and evaporate quickly like shots to Marvin Bagley hanging
- [29:58]
Rob Mahoney
around legit, it's not a given. Yeah, I think that reinvention is really important for the broader NBA ecosystem, but also just the Marvin Bagley story where this guy, he could have been a punchline for the rest of his professional basketball life and instead is making something and giving himself some extra chances as a result.
- [30:15]
Justin Varier
Let's do the Grizzlies now. So they're at the top of this heap. They're. Oh no, excuse me. The, the Pelicans vaulted after last night's
- [30:22]
Rob Mahoney
look at that game.
- [30:23]
Justin Varier
Yeah, congrats to them. But the Grizzlies, I'll say this for them, I almost feel like this is their comfort zone. Basically throwing out 10 to 11 guys, some of whom you've never heard of before, but all play with a certain Grizzlies quality. Like there's still an identity to this team, despite what's going on with John Moran, despite the fact that they've kind of jettisoned a lot of their key pieces of their previous era. They're just like guys that come off the bench. I was like, oh yeah, that guy's probably going to play 10 minutes for the Grizzlies next year. And maybe that's a backhanded compliment because they seem way too comfortable in March meaningless basketball. On the other hand, they still have whatever course through this franchise dating back to Tony Allen, and they've managed to like maintain that through now multiple regimes and eras. And so credit to the Grizzlies, you have a literal identity in a league that fetishizes that probably above a lot of things.
- [31:18]
Rob Mahoney
They have the actual identity and they just keep turning up the players that fit it, which in itself is like a scouting miracle. Right. It's one thing to identify this guy can actually play, this guy can participate at an NBA level, but also somehow he fits exactly what we want and need him to do. Many teams in the league are floundering and failing at that exact enterprise on an ongoing basis. And so the fact that the Grizzlies continue to find role players who, yes, they never quite like cracked the exact like fifth guy they needed in a given lineup, but they keep finding prospects worth investing in, worth giving some time to, worth a Flyer, worth a two way contract, worth you know, bringing in an undrafted non guaranteed capacity. I think they're just like good at turning over rocks and finding apparently Memphis Grizzlies hiding underneath them. Including my nice thing which I mean Mavericks adjacent. Certainly Omax Prosper Justin, I think he's the good. Kind of weird is where I land on Omax Prosper. Good player and he's kind of just what I want to see from a tanking team at this point in the season which is giving these sorts of like unconventional talents an opportunity to play in context with normal NBA players around them to whatever degree you can muster that and let them play through some mistakes and find themselves. And I feel like Omax has really
- [32:34]
Justin Varier
found himself shooting the COVID off the ball. Yep. And playing center. Question mark. Yeah, I remember right after the trade deadline when they tried it up that lineup because I went to the game when they were here in Portland, I was like, oh these guys are fucking around. Like they have decided to just eject on this season and they are playing for this draft picked and they still are to a large degree. But you're right, I was surprised by how comfortable he looked there and how much of an advantage it gave them. Like they really gave it to the Blazers in that game. Now a lot of teams tend to do that at the right time with the Blazers, but I don't know, I just like I'm starting to rethink him. I guess the question ultimately is like is the center stuff kind of a just like a dalliance? Is it something that they're going to do short term in order to just like plug this gap that they clearly have or like is he like a part time center? Like what do you see for him like going beyond this stretch?
- [33:23]
Rob Mahoney
I think the center part of his game is really important because it's another way to get on the floor. And when you're a player like him who's trying to crack a rotation, is trying to figure out who you can be to a team that's actually competing for something that's a lot of the game is like how many different ways can you be useful? And so you don't want to play him as a full time center. I think on the rebounding alone it would be a little disastrous if you tried to make him your starting center full time. Just would not work. But as a change of pace and I want to say like that literally because he's one of the biggest pace influencing players in the league right now in terms of his activity, revving up the Grizzlies, getting them on the break, he's so good. He has really good hands. He has really good anticipation. And so him playing the five like he's competitive and bodying guys and being physical, but he's also just like denying post entry passes and breaking up plays. He's like, he's such a clear defensive disruptor where whether he's guarding in the post or he's guarding on the perimeter, he's not the kind of stopper who's just like in front of you at every step, but he's the kind of guy who like, never really goes away. And he's always just kind of getting back into plays and mucking them up and making a difference. And so whether that's at the four or the five or cross match against twos and threes, like, that's a lot of utility to get him into the mix for the Grizzlies next season, even if they are dramatically more competitive.
- [34:38]
Justin Varier
He's a mucka.
- [34:39]
Rob Mahoney
He's a mucka. A classic mucka.
- [34:42]
Justin Varier
Did you happen to watch last night's game against the Knicks?
- [34:45]
Rob Mahoney
You know, I can't say I did. What happened?
- [34:48]
Justin Varier
No, this is great because there were four to five players that emerged off this bench. I was like, I don't know if I knew that guy. There's a couple of guys who've been playing for a little bit, but there's like, literally one or two had never played mba, like, seemingly NBA basketball, and certainly not for the Memphis Grizzlies. Which brings me to a tried and true bit that I love to do here toward the end of the season.
- [35:06]
Rob Mahoney
Oh, boy.
- [35:07]
Justin Varier
Which is who he tanked for.
- [35:09]
Rob Mahoney
This is tough. This is a tough year for it. I'm going to be honest with you. It's. There's been a lot of guys really getting a cup of coffee who you could convince me that they're creative players. You could convince me that they're professional soccer players. You could convince me that they're like extras who walk through one scene on Paradise. But I guess, you know, here we go. Let's put it to the test.
- [35:29]
Justin Varier
Well, it's funny you mentioned that because our producer, Isaiah Blakely mentioned perhaps digging this up earlier in the season, I think, like a couple weeks ago, because we started to see some of these guys start to filter in a little quicker. But clearly the NBA dropped the hammer now. And so a lot of the same players that we know and love, the Michael Porter juniors on some of these tankering teams, like, they're showing up for how long and in what capacity? It's unclear, but actually it's not as bad as I thought it would be until I got to this game where it's just like, oh, they're really stretching the limits on like. Like even a hardcore NBA fan.
- [36:02]
Rob Mahoney
Okay, well, who you got?
- [36:03]
Justin Varier
I've got a couple names here, and you're going to have to decide whether or not they played in last night's Memphis Grizzlies game. Loss to the Knicks.
- [36:10]
Rob Mahoney
Sounds good.
- [36:10]
Justin Varier
Ready for this?
- [36:11]
Rob Mahoney
Yes.
- [36:11]
Justin Varier
Okay, first, Dana Evans.
- [36:15]
Rob Mahoney
No, she's on the Pit.
- [36:18]
Justin Varier
That's right. God damn it. I thought I'd catch you up. Going right off the jump there. But Dana Evans is, of course, nurse Dana from the Pit. Yeah, the charge nurse who everyone knows and love.
- [36:27]
Rob Mahoney
Could play for the Sixers, probably. You know, I don't know that she'd be going all the way to Memphis or New York, but suit her up right now.
- [36:33]
Justin Varier
Okay. Lucas Williamson.
- [36:36]
Rob Mahoney
Lucas Williamson.
- [36:38]
Justin Varier
Lucas.
- [36:39]
Rob Mahoney
I'm going to be honest, don't know the name even remotely, but I'm going to say that he did play for the Memphis Grizzlies.
- [36:46]
Justin Varier
He indeed played eight minutes last night, scored two points.
- [36:52]
Rob Mahoney
What's his deal?
- [36:54]
Justin Varier
I couldn't really tell you. He's from Loyola Chicago.
- [36:58]
Rob Mahoney
Okay.
- [37:00]
Justin Varier
Seems like a nice kid. Great smile on the player card. This is the first NBA action I believe, of his entire career.
- [37:07]
Rob Mahoney
Congratulations to Lucas Williamson.
- [37:10]
Justin Varier
Yes. Lucas Williamson. All right, next up, Xavier Collins.
- [37:16]
Rob Mahoney
No, he's also on Paradise.
- [37:18]
Justin Varier
See?
- [37:18]
Rob Mahoney
God damn you doing.
- [37:22]
Justin Varier
When you said Paradise, I was like, shit. He actually watches the show.
- [37:25]
Rob Mahoney
I'm locked in. You can't pull a Sterling K. Brown character on me like that.
- [37:29]
Justin Varier
Yeah, unfortunately, Xavier Collins is Sterling K. Brown's character on Paradise. I honestly have not caught up, but I know it's in the zeitgeist, so it always is. Okay, let's see here. Adama ball.
- [37:44]
Rob Mahoney
Adama ball.
- [37:45]
Justin Varier
Adama ball.
- [37:50]
Rob Mahoney
Not.
- [37:51]
Justin Varier
Not say that in a sentence.
- [37:53]
Rob Mahoney
Adama ball.
- [37:54]
Justin Varier
Adama ball.
- [37:55]
Rob Mahoney
A dama ball has to be a grizzly. I mean, like, I'm just going to go with the cadence here. Knowing you, you're going like, not a grizzly. Grizzly. Not a grizzly. Grizzly. So I'm going to say he's a grizzly.
- [38:05]
Justin Varier
Well, unfortunately, I'm not creative enough for this because that is correct. Adama Ball did play last night for the Grizzlies. 23 minutes scored. Coming off the bench, huge shouts to him. He's played in three games for the Grizzlies this season. All right, one or two More here. Let's go with Dejan Giraud.
- [38:25]
Rob Mahoney
Absolutely a grizzly. I've seen Dejan Giraud in action and many times I've wondered, is he a legit, very good NBA player who's going to be in the rotation for a team, Grizzlies or otherwise, next season? I'm kind of a fan of Dejan Girau and the name is splendid.
- [38:39]
Justin Varier
Okay, that one was too easy. Apparently Robert Greinear.
- [38:44]
Rob Mahoney
Greinear.
- [38:45]
Justin Varier
Robert Greinear.
- [38:47]
Rob Mahoney
I mean, Robert Greinear definitely had a great game this year in the NCAA tournament for a mid major. I don't know which one. Lehigh. Grinnell. He's played for Grinnell College.
- [39:00]
Justin Varier
No, unfortunately he didn't go to college at all because he is a woodsman. He is the titular character of Train Dreams.
- [39:07]
Rob Mahoney
Wow. Okay. See, I'm not up on Train Dreams, so you did pull a fast one on me.
- [39:11]
Justin Varier
Joel Edgerton, my Pacific Northwest brother, of course, shouts to my loggers out there. But yes, he did not play for the Memphis Grizzlies. Last one here, Jungle Pussy.
- [39:22]
Rob Mahoney
Come on.
- [39:23]
Justin Varier
Did Jungle Pussy suit up from the Memphis Grizzlies?
- [39:29]
Rob Mahoney
You're out of control. But shouts to one battle after another. Shouts to the French 96th. What's the name of the 75? The French 75. Thank you.
- [39:42]
Justin Varier
Sorry, it's been not a revolutionary.
- [39:44]
Rob Mahoney
Clearly.
- [39:44]
Justin Varier
Clearly. All right. Anything else on the Grizzlies? I have Gigi Jackson. It seems like a lot of kind of the players they need to be good next season or going forward have been pretty impressive. Yeah, like Wells has had moments. Cedric Coward has had some good moments. Like there is something here. I think it might take another two seasons to build on top of that. But like they just always find good players.
- [40:09]
Rob Mahoney
They really do. Walter Clayton Jr. Another one of those guys who he's not there consistently enough yet. And certainly as like as a shooter and a scorer can leave you a little wanting sometimes in terms of even just the shots he takes. But he'll do things every game that surprised me in a good way. And for where the Grizzlies are like, we'll absolutely take that. Also just a perpetual salute, Justin, on this podcast every episode to Taj Gibson, who's still fucking doing it. Just getting out there at 40 years old boxing dudes out since the fucking Dust Bowl. Like we, we love Taj Gibson. I love what he's doing. I'm glad he's still in the NBA.
- [40:43]
Justin Varier
That's the old truly. All right, which team you want to go for? Next Pelicans, Jazz or Kings.
- [40:50]
Rob Mahoney
I mean, it seems like the Pelicans
- [40:52]
Justin Varier
have earned it, I guess so, you
- [40:54]
Rob Mahoney
know, top of the pile.
- [40:56]
Justin Varier
And they're really just, they're giving it their best. That's my nice thing to say about them. They're trying as much as they possibly can to the point that they've diminished their rookies to 20 minutes a game, sorts of players and really emphasize their vets in order to win. Question mark. I can't tell if that's because they're trying to avoid the shame of potentially giving up a top three pick in this upcoming draft. If the ownership just wants to see a competitive product out there, which I guess I don't blame them, but I just don't know to what ends. Clearly they made a decision to pivot to the future, but they're still beholden to the, in air quotes, young core of the past regime, but moved on from a lot of the principles of that regime. And so I just can't figure out what the plan is here, but I guess shouts to them for giving it their best.
- [41:46]
Rob Mahoney
I mean, this is the counterpoint to all of the, the tanking crises that we go through is like, do we want teams to behave like the Pelicans do?
- [41:55]
Justin Varier
I kind of think you should have to live in your own mess of your own design here. Like the Pelicans have failed because of their own organizational incompetence. Let's just be honest here. Or the lack of financing that they've been willing to give to the organization. Like they have been gifted from the lottery gods to generational prospects in Zion Williamson and Anthony Davis. Clearly flaws there, like personality type. Zion is on a whole nother, like, different plane of existence most of the time. But like, you probably should have come up with more competitive basketball that they've gotten from those guys. And so I don't know, I kind of think, like, in a weird way, they're a prime example of why we should, like, really hold tanking teams to the fire. Because, like, you should actually have to do things that contribute to winning. You can't just like, keep losing and losing and doing things again. Like you should be motivated by your own malfeasance, basically.
- [42:50]
Rob Mahoney
I just don't know that they feel that motivated. You know, they are living in their own mess. I just wish the mess involved a little bit more balance as far as the going after it to whatever extent you want to and actually finding meaningful opportunities for these young guys on whom your future depends. It seems like there should be a Way to walk there. But they have played relatively competitively. They are just like measurably better coached than they were at the start of the season, to be honest with you. Like, I think James Perego's done a good job there in terms of making elements of this team makes sense. And as far as nice things go, I also just have been so pleasantly surprised by seeing Dejounte Murray back in action after his Achilles injury. I don't take that stuff for granted ever. And certainly with a guard who was reliant on some quick twitch burst to be his best self in his former lives. And you still see moments of that, but you also also see moments where he doesn't quite have it and still makes it work. I think just with timing and with like clever playmaking and just manipulating the defense just so. And that comb, you get the high water marks and you also get the making do. I feel like that's been a best case scenario as far as the Dejounte Murray return goes.
- [44:02]
Justin Varier
I think the unfortunate part of the Pelican season is that if you look at it in totality, they've had like a lot of like really nice stories happening in the midst of the season. Jonte Murray, as you mentioned, most players might not have come back because there's really nothing to play for. By the time he did, he's just showing up and just playing reasonably well. And I think that's an important thing, especially considering he has a long way to go to get back to the player using Sadiq Bay all of a sudden just a good competitive player. He's also dealt with injuries all of a sudden. Pop this year. Great little story. Trey Murphy, probably the best season of his career. Zion healthy, playing regularly and playing defense. Like the Zion sizzle reel that has really just jumped out to me are all the defensive plays that he's been making of late. It's just so damning because none of it matters. Like ultimately it hasn't mounted to anything. And that's my worry long term where it's like fears I feel like can get his and still develop in the midst of whatever is going on. Because he has such a clear like track for his career. He's going to be just a dynamic scorer. You saw that against the Knicks recently where I think he had 21 points, which is great. I just worry that Queen is going to have to be sacrificed the most because in order to fit him into what they're doing, it feels like you really do need the right parts in order to cover up his defense. First and foremost, or just find the right size players in order to mangle together certain lineups. He and Zion do not fit together. I'm pretty clear that's just not going to work. The defense is horrid, but also they just don't have any sort of synergy playing off each other. And so I do worry, like, if he's the guy that we're all most excited about his talent, like, is he actually going to be most diminished if they're going to be chasing just 30 wins in, like the 9 or 10 seed?
- [45:43]
Rob Mahoney
Entirely possible. I also think to your point about how much you have to cover for him. Part of the problem with Derek Queen is he's a super fun player, but everything he can't do puts his incredible pressure on the stuff he can do.
- [45:56]
Justin Varier
Right.
- [45:56]
Rob Mahoney
It's like, if you're going to be a defensive liability, if you're going to struggle to finish inside, if you're going to be like kind of a little bit of a waffly rebounder at times, just given the physicality of the game, if all those things are going to be true, I mean, the passing better be a one, right? Like, your ability to work as a hub has to be on an elite, elite level. And so just being fun and interesting and doing some stuff and racking up some assists, like, that might not be enough if you have to structure your entire universe as a team around this guy to compensate for the other things that he can't do. And I hate that we're there. And I hate that we're there with a player who also has this baggage, given what he was traded for in the first place. Derrick Queen has a lot resting on him in a way that I just don't think is fair for any player. And the position that the Pelicans have put him in is very unfortunate, including, as you say, because of just their trajectory and what they seem to be playing for and competing for now, which is, I guess, just, you know, play five centers as much as possible. Like handing minutes to DeAndre Jordan. Like, there's a weirdo aspect of the Pelicans that I do kind of perversely enjoy. I just don't like that it comes at the expense of Derek Queen sometimes.
- [47:02]
Justin Varier
So The Pelicans were 6 and 4 in February. That was their first winning month since March 2024.
- [47:10]
Rob Mahoney
Jesus.
- [47:10]
Justin Varier
And we should note that in February is the All Star break, and thus they only had 10 games. So that certainly helped. But a little glimmer of light, they were playing well there. Unfortunately, recently, they've now lost five straight as we're recording this. I just. I don't know, man. I don't know if this is a nice thing, but, like, I just. I can't ignore all of the big blaring signs with the Pelicans. It's just nothing goes right there.
- [47:31]
Rob Mahoney
It really does. I mean, they're just consistently. Again, we're just digging in on the not nice of this segment, but they're consistently worse than the sum of their parts. And they have to find a way to resolve that. They have to find some better synergy. And this is. I would hope Dejounte Murray can be a part of that in the short term. I don't know if he will be in the long term, but, like, he does bring a connectivity with his playmaking that I think is really important for this group. And they're always trying to figure out the right balance of how much should Zion be operating with the ball? How much do we want to lean into fiercer Queen when they're on the floor? How much do we want to let Trey Murphy cook and expand his game? And I think Dejounte Murray actually juggles some of those varying interests quite well. And also he's a little bit more of, like a reactive playmaker than a proactive one. But just by creating advantages and playing out of them and then giving other guys opportunities to succeed with kickouts and dump offs and lobs, I'm hoping that he can make this roster, make some. Some bit more of sense going forward than it has.
- [48:30]
Justin Varier
Or maybe they should move the franchise to Seattle.
- [48:33]
Rob Mahoney
They could do that, too.
- [48:35]
Justin Varier
Worked for Robert Grenier, you know, just come up to the Pacific Northwest. It actually didn't work out that well.
- [48:39]
Rob Mahoney
No.
- [48:40]
Justin Varier
No spoilers, but he lived a good life ultimately.
- [48:43]
Rob Mahoney
Okay, I'm gonna have to take your word for it. I don't know yet.
- [48:47]
Justin Varier
I just like, as. As the tanking. Excuse me, as the relocation stuff is percolating, as, like the expansion stuff is happening, I'm just like, do we need more teams? Can we just take this franchise and bring it to Seattle? Like, we've tried the New Orleans thing. I think that if they were successful, the city would have rallied behind it because there's a lot of civic pride there, but just they never put out a competitor product. And so I just don't know how after now three different eras of this franchise, you're still starting from behind and trying to start fresh. I just don't know how it's going to, like, latch on even as an entertainment.
- [49:21]
Rob Mahoney
Justin, everything you're saying is fair and ultimately correct, but we simply can't be anchoring our One Nice Thing segment about the Pelicans with. You should really just relocate this entire franchise. We can't do that.
- [49:32]
Justin Varier
You don't deserve a team. Yeah, tough. All right, one more break and we could talk about the remaining two teams. All right. The Utah Jazz, who I clearly have some sort of sickness because I find myself gravitating toward this team all the time. Tell me about it.
- [49:49]
Rob Mahoney
What's drawing you in after all of
- [49:51]
Justin Varier
the consternation and the flare ups over the Jazz specifically being the shining example of tanking and what's wrong with the league? I do feel like they've kind of settled into a pretty natural state of where they're just allowing their young players to develop, which maybe they should have done sooner. I don't give them any free passes because the tanking was very egregious. I think they just did it in such a loud way that just allowed them to be the ones that got the hammer in the way that you could have probably dropped it on a couple things. The Wizards, for instance, of late, it's just like, why are we sitting like our second year players? Like, shouldn't they be playing valuable minutes at this point? Whole other story. But the Jazz have basically just sat the vets and kind of given way to the young guys. And the funny thing is they have all these young guys just like fighting for minutes at this point. It has been pretty fun to watch Ace Bailey kind of start to assert himself and he's now already, despite the fact being pretty like marginalized for most of the season, fourth in the league in rookie scoring right now. He's been legitimately impressive down the stretch here. Also, Cody Williams, alive and well.
- [50:57]
Rob Mahoney
Look at that.
- [50:58]
Justin Varier
Looking like an NBA player. He's definitely like with a bullet. My one nice thing because he just like last year just looked lost.
- [51:05]
Rob Mahoney
Yes.
- [51:06]
Justin Varier
And he's not like super young. I think he's now going to be 21 years old or maybe it's 22 coming up here. And so like he's already starting from a place where his development arc, you really expect more. But now he just seems like he has a sense of what to do and has been able to highlight what he does well, which is on the defensive end where he's big and mobile and really has something and they need
- [51:29]
Rob Mahoney
some of that, you know, like they ultimately have tried tapping into those models of players like Taylor Hendricks. Now a grizzly has found Some success there, but, like, not a part of the Jazz's future anymore. Clearly, they need some defensive versatility and they need some flexibility within their lineups to make all of this. I say this about the Utah Jazz, all of this talent work, and I think part of what Cody Williams represents to me. In addition, I want to talk about Bryce Sensabaugh as well. There's just, like, a critical mass of players here that are going to prevent the Jazz from doing this again. Like, they, they. I would be absolutely floored if they are in this position again next season. Because when you look at their roster, Lowry, Keonte, George, Jaren, Jackson Jr. Walker, Kessler, and one of the top picks in this upcoming draft, then you get to ace Yusuf Nurkic. And yes, I said Yusuf Nurkic, who I just think had kind of an incredible season under the radar, Bryce Sensibaugh, and then even you get to the Cody Williams and Filipowski types. There's just a lot of viable NBA players, and it's Frankie, like, crossing the threshold where they're too good and too useful to be this terrible again. And it just positions the Jazz for all kinds of exciting things. When you think about what the future of their roster could look like, the directions they want to take in terms of, you know what, who they want to chase via trade, via free agency, whatever, I'm not sure they're going to, like, punch their ticket into the playoffs next season just because the west is so competitive, but they're going to be in the running because of these guys.
- [52:53]
Justin Varier
I think you bring up a good point because we talked about the Mavericks being able to quickly flip this and turn this around into a competitive situation. I wonder how high the ceiling is for next season's Jazz if everybody is healthy, if Kessler is back and all these pieces come together, are we talking playing? I think here's a good example. The Wizards playing in the east, so the Runway is a little clearer there, right? Do you think the Wizards will ultimately, with AD and Trey and all these young guys, be higher in the east standing than the Jazz will be in the West? Like, which one will ultimately be, have the better seed next year?
- [53:30]
Rob Mahoney
I think probably the Wizards will be higher in the standings just because of the conference differential, but I think the Jazz will be a better team. And so that's all, really you can ask for. You can't determine who you play against or compete against. You can't shake your fist at the sky and wish that the Western Conference were worse because it's just always good. But there's going to be an opportunity for the Wizards to crash that particular party. I think the Jazz will be in that play, in mix in one way or another. I mean, top six seems way too ambitious even for a team that's making some dramatic changes. And another season of development from Keonte and getting Lowry back full time and also having Jaren Jackson Jr. That's a dramatically different team.
- [54:08]
Justin Varier
Team.
- [54:09]
Rob Mahoney
But is the. Is it the kind of dramatically different team that's going to be better than like the Minnesota Timberwolves or the Houston Rockets? That might be asking too much, but the fact that we've been talking about it, I think this is certainly a very different tenor than we were talking about the Pelicans.
- [54:22]
Justin Varier
I think it's two different conversations. It's like, are they a better team when it comes down to a seven game series than the Timberwolves? No. Certainly I'd be shocked if they want a playoff series against the Timberwolves next season.
- [54:34]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [54:34]
Justin Varier
But could they be the type of rock solid regular season team that a team like the Timberwolves struggles to? Because there's so much just like weird shit happening. What? Seemingly every two weeks ant meaning to run off the court and take a shit, and all of a sudden it's just like that's the dominant storyline of the. Of the Timberwolves.
- [54:50]
Rob Mahoney
That's a very normal thing to happen. That's an everyday thing to happen. Is that so odd?
- [54:54]
Justin Varier
Do you ever have to do that in the middle of a pod?
- [54:56]
Rob Mahoney
Well, no, you know, we try to portion out our time accordingly, but I'm saying it's a normal human function.
- [55:02]
Justin Varier
Yeah, no, it's just has a way of selling that in a way that he certainly does. But like, I could see the Jazz just being very good at the regular season in part because they have all of this size, which I think like is a nice little wrinkle. Like if you catch some teams that just like can't deal with that. We talked about that with other teams, like with Wemby, like, who has just like the bigs to go up against a front line potentially of Kessler, Lowry and Jaren Jackson. That's just like a lot of big old boys. And also the versa, I mean, including ace, who's like 6 9. And honestly, the way his gate moves and the way that he goes around, I'm like this guy like 6:10, 6:11. Actually, is he doing like a durant where he's suppressing how tall he is? I just think like they have versatility and all of this depth that we're discussing with some of these young guys, I do wonder and especially as you watch like the Lakers kind of plow through and get the third seed, like a team that is motivated and built for the regular season, I think could have more success in the west next year than we expect.
- [55:59]
Rob Mahoney
I think they could have a nice regular season. I don't want to compare them to a team with Luka Doncic on it. That seems again, unfair as far as the threshold for what the Jazz could be. But you're right that they could be competitive and they could be feisty. And I think most crucially, they've just been playing very intentionally under their level for multiple seasons now. And I say that in basically every respect of the organization. Right. If they wanted to go harder after the Jaren Jackson tights earlier, they could have and they chose not to for understandable reasons. As far as like the team building perspective goes, Will Hardy, I think has been positioning certain guys to succeed, but ultimately has a lot to show with a talented roster. And as soon as you give him some guys that are worth playing and can play together, I think the Jazz are really going to click. And that's I think what we're talking about as far as the regular season potential next season. And then just like on a player to player level, even the good guys in the rotation just like haven't been able or allowed to play consistently enough to actually build something. And so what can they build together? I'm fascinated to see it in part because of the size you described. I think they're also one of these few rosters in the league that has that size and I switches like a lot of guys who can shoot and none, I don't know that any of them are like true dead eyes necessarily. Maybe Lowry, by reputation and by threat is like the biggest one on the floor, but they just have a lot of guys. When you go, you know, into, into the Bryce Sensibaz into the Sphink, like just a lot of guys who could pop into your rotation and hit two or three threes in a game or during a crucial stretch and make a lot of that size work for you,
- [57:32]
Justin Varier
do you have a sense of what aces not only like destiny is as a player, like his ceiling or even what his immediate role will be next year when all these guys come back.
- [57:42]
Rob Mahoney
I think it's probably still going to be pretty restrained for next season. And this is the kind of thing where you slow play his potential a little bit, right? When you have this new influx of talent and you're trying to make all these pieces make sense together. He's probably still more of a spacer and an off ball shooter. Like that's probably ultimately how he slotted into next year's Jazz. But you're already seeing them experiment rightly and true to his kind of like draft positioning in the first place as just a more pure bucket getter right now. And it wouldn't surprise me if in a couple years he's allowed to kind of expand his game a little bit more or kind of try some, some of those things on a more full time basis. But if you're trying to win games, I don't think force feeding Ace 15 shots is necessarily the way to do it right now. I think he's going to be a really good player, but right now he could be a good contributing player to a more balanced team.
- [58:30]
Justin Varier
Guess he could be like an off the bench scorer. But every time I watch him, I'm just like kind of marveled at how effortless all the things that he does are. And maybe that's the problem is that like he hasn't shown some of the ability to do the hard work and it's probably the work that he's going to be tasked with if he is going to be diminished or down the pecking order. But like the shot is just like,
- [58:51]
Rob Mahoney
oh, it's so, it's so silly.
- [58:52]
Justin Varier
Natural.
- [58:53]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, yeah.
- [58:54]
Justin Varier
And he's just like so big. I just, I don't know. He seems like he has star potential in there and I would be bummed if he didn't get to explore that as the Jazz are kind of turning the page so quick.
- [59:05]
Rob Mahoney
He definitely has some star potential. He also has some Rudy Gay potential. And so I think even that thing,
- [59:10]
Justin Varier
we're talking bad Rudy Gay or Spurs, late season or late career, Just like Bet, everyone wants Rudy Gay.
- [59:17]
Rob Mahoney
I think all that depends on what you ask of him. Right. If you're asking Rudy Gay to be the centerpiece of your team and your primary scorer, we saw very definitively the limits to that. And there are just some of these stretches, especially now when the Jazz just don't have a lot of scores on the floor. And you'll see Ace take five straight shots because the team wants him just to take five straight shots. The ball keeps finding him again because no one else can create. And the first two are exactly as compelling as you as you describe, like, oh my God, this guy has it like a natural scoring feel. How do you take that shot away? The size, the skill, the combination, it's all really clicking and he misses three straight, like kind of flaky kind of fading jumpers, and that's going to be part of his game. And how whether he weeds that stuff out or just becomes frankly so good and so undeniable at those shots that it doesn't really matter anymore, that could define his trajectory.
- [60:07]
Justin Varier
All right, last one here. The Sacramento Kings, who like the Nets and the Pacers before them, won last night despite all evidence to suggest that that's what they should be doing.
- [60:18]
Rob Mahoney
They can't help themselves.
- [60:20]
Justin Varier
They're really going to fuck around and like punt themselves out of the top three odds, which I know I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth here, where I'm saying taking is atrocious and we need to eradicate it. But like, if you're in this position, especially before the party is over next year and the odds potentially flattening, if not more things start to come in here, I just don't know how you allow that to happen. And I mean, they're fourth right now, all the teams in front of them, very metal about making sure they're going to be in the bottom three. So it's already a tough journey, but like the Jazz are slowly creeping up here, right? It's, it's like one game at this point. And so I'll say this, I'm a little worried that things could get worse for the Kings. I know that's not a nice thing, but like, I just, I think their fan base is cares too much and that they need the nice thing more than probably any other team in the league. So please, King, stop trying.
- [61:18]
Rob Mahoney
Let's relax a little bit. Yeah, I mean, you're right that they are, they are in danger of slipping in the odds, but we can't doom and gloom today. We have to stick to the nice things. We have to give some rays of sunshine, Justin. And as far as those things go, there's a lot to be down on with the Kings and their roster and their composition and what the future of the team looks like. And yet as rookie classes go, Nick Clifford at 24, Maxime Renault at 42, Dylan Cardwell, undrafted on a two way. That's pretty damn good. Like as again as far as like one year influxes go, granted two of those guys are like 24 years old. We don't have to talk about that right now. But I've been impressed with all of them at various stages in the season. And yes, it's slim competition out here, but they've Just been among the brightest spots for the Kings in their moments all year long.
- [62:10]
Justin Varier
Like the LeBron, Wade, Bosch, Mello Draft, but for the Kings.
- [62:15]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [62:15]
Justin Varier
Dark about this for years.
- [62:16]
Rob Mahoney
Chris Kamen. You know, there's a lot of names in there.
- [62:20]
Justin Varier
Well, you mentioned the one guy that we have to talk about, which is Maximi. Just unbelievable. He's really good Back to back 32 and 30. Just looking like. Just like an All Star center at times. And now it's funny because he's averaging 16.7 points per game since the All Star break, which is impressive nonetheless. But then you look in like precious Achua. He's like, right there with them, which is suggest about, like, there's basically opportunity for anyone who could do things. But, like, I've just been stunned watching him, and we've gotten an elongated run of him, so we've watched a lot of him down the stretch here.
- [62:54]
Rob Mahoney
Yep.
- [62:55]
Justin Varier
Of just like, how much touch and feel he has in the way that he's able to deploy it, like, in different ways. I'm not sure, like, if the shot will be a consistent thing, but, like, clearly has range and clearly can put it up. But, like, the little push shot at the basket and even, like, the touch extends to some of his passing skills. Like classic Euro big, where it's just like, he's got all the touch stuff, but he's also very big. So he's like, he's fluid and big, and I'm like, oh, my God, this guy, like, he could be a player.
- [63:21]
Rob Mahoney
I think he's definitely a player. And he's not only big and has the legit kind of the size to play the five, he's still so lanky. And the fact that he's converting that touch, despite the fact that he needs to bulk up a little bit, that he needs a little more physical strength, that he hasn't grown into his body of the player he's ultimately going to become. That makes me incredibly optimistic because if just give him that time. And I say that in part because even though he's giving up, you know, 10, 15 pounds in a given matchup, he's still really good at establishing position. And this is one of those things for Biggs, it's just like, honestly, among the most important qualities as a big is your, like, just what is your accessibility? It's great that you're 7ft tall and can convert, like, 65 to 70% of your shots around the rim, but can your teammates get you the ball? Do you have good hands? Do you fight for position and hold it. Do you. Does your sense of timing kind of sync up with the people around you? And Maxime Renault makes a lot of that stuff really easy. You know, he's not exactly playing with, like, world beating, like, post entry passers, and yet you'll just see him really seal guys inside and fight for a spot and keep them at bay so he can get to that touch. And so long as you can do that, I think you can be a really productive scoring big. And he has enough of the hub stuff at the elbow, too, to kind of expand regardless of whether the shot ultimately is a huge part of his game.
- [64:41]
Justin Varier
So I mentioned this earlier, but the lineage of French centers that the national team is now potentially building is kind of unheard of because there's a lot of talent coming through the French pipeline. You've seen an influx of that over the past few drafts, WEMBY, etc. But all of them are centers for the most part. So next, whatever cycle we're on here, this is the lineup that the French team can throw out there.
- [65:06]
Rob Mahoney
Okay?
- [65:07]
Justin Varier
Wemby, Rudy Gobert, Alex Saar, Moussa, Diabate, and Yabaselli.
- [65:14]
Rob Mahoney
Wow.
- [65:15]
Justin Varier
With Reynaud and Johan Behrenje coming off the bench, that is seven, like, centers who could reasonably be in international competition. Like, obviously they won't all make it.
- [65:28]
Rob Mahoney
That's pretty wild.
- [65:30]
Justin Varier
But Those are all NBA players, and they're all, like, 6, 10, and above. It's like a. Like a collection where I'm almost wondering, like, what's going on with the tall people in France? Like, did they all just get together and decide, like, we're going to take over basketball, but we're going to start from an early age, almost like they do in China, where they kind of really just like, identify tall people, and all of a sudden, like, you're a basketball player and that's it.
- [65:56]
Rob Mahoney
I think it's the dairy. I think we've moved too far away from dairy in this country, and we're raising our youth to be frail and breakable, and meanwhile, they're just churning out Musa Diabates like it's fucking nothing.
- [66:09]
Justin Varier
It's not the baguettes.
- [66:11]
Rob Mahoney
It could be the baguettes. I mean, everything is always about the baguettes. But I'm just saying there's like a. There's a calcium deficiency going on, and I think. I think the French have resolved it.
- [66:19]
Justin Varier
I mean, I guess I'm not surprised because as we look across, like, like the best players now and a lot of the overseas influence that is matriculating into the league. A lot of the best players tend to be big guys who are skilled. Jokic, Wemby, Giannis, all that. I mean, maybe they're just, like, getting the skill to these guys earlier than even America is. But I was assuming that, like, at this point, all of the best bigs are coming already, if not shooting threes, certainly getting on that path and, like, are going to get there eventually.
- [66:51]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [66:52]
Justin Varier
And so it's kind of remarkable to the point where, like, I have to stop and pause and think, like, something is going on here. Do we need, like, Wright Thompson to go to France and just, like, start to go into the French countryside and, like, taste the grapes and tell us all about the tannins on them and like, how they're affecting, like, the biggest people in France?
- [67:10]
Rob Mahoney
Of course we do. I mean, I know this is editor brain from you, but yeah, we do need that story. And also we need to be sending more writers to France. So I fully endorse whatever it is you're pitching here.
- [67:19]
Justin Varier
You want to go to France?
- [67:20]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, you already know that. I do. I also want to say booked, ticket booked, expense. Let's get it through. I appreciate your restraint, Justin. As you were sketching out the future of the French national team, I didn't hear a whisper of a mention of your guy, Ryan Rupert, nor did I hear it during the Grizzly segment where he's kind of cooking. He's had some. He's had some real games.
- [67:43]
Justin Varier
He is good. His. He has a weird, like, the way his body moves because he's incredibly long and athletic, but it almost seems like it's not synchronized so that like, he's like, movements are a little stilted and he almost seems like a little too big for the playing style that he has. But there's a lot of skill there and he's super young. Even still, I think he's one of the youngest players in his draft class. The problem is, like, the Blazers just have so many decent guys. It's true. In the back end of the lineup, they just needed a little bit more want to in size and competitiveness and like, some of the other guys just fit that a little bit more. But like, I could see him like, having a career in the. In the NBA's thus far.
- [68:23]
Rob Mahoney
Absolutely. And I would say as far as the future of the French lineup too, I mean, we don't even know if Noah Eisenge is going to be good. Really. So, you know, the. The frontline Usman Jang maybe will have a claim to stake at Some point.
- [68:34]
Justin Varier
Well, that's the other side of this is like I'm looking around for wings and ball handlers and I'm like, Nick Batum is going to have to play for this team until he's 57, of course, and he would love it. Nothing more than that guy wants to do is then get like a check in order to keep playing basketball.
- [68:50]
Rob Mahoney
I mean, he's a true pro, but yeah, yeah, for some reason you're right. Like the whole French wave of players. Yeah, you'll, you'll occasionally get your, your visa, Shays or whatnot, or even your Traore is like, there are guys who are technically guards and wings in the NBA, but it is a huge influx of bigs in exactly this kind of mold, where Maxime's probably one of the more offensive oriented among them, I would say. But a lot of good defenders, a lot of good physical players, it's, it's a renaissance of a kind. I just don't know of what.
- [69:21]
Justin Varier
Anything else about the Kings before we go here? This is the last time we're talking about them, so get it in.
- [69:25]
Rob Mahoney
It's true. I do want to, I do want to circle back to Dylan Cardwell for a second as just another like big old boy in the league who came in doing big old boy stuff. And sometimes it's just refreshing to me to see a big playing big basketball in a way that is not flashy, honestly. May even be an obstruction at times to getting like a full time guaranteed contract. But teams need it. And I could see Dylan Cardwell having like a Nick Richards type trajectory in the league where he just becomes, you know, a good bench center to have around. A guy who's going to like mash dudes up, eat boards and just like keep it simple and get paid. And that's a good life if you can get it.
- [70:06]
Justin Varier
What a time to be a big old boy.
- [70:08]
Rob Mahoney
Truly. 2026, the year of the big old boys, potentially.
- [70:14]
Justin Varier
Does it include us? Are we big boys?
- [70:16]
Rob Mahoney
I hope so. Well, we got to see. We haven't crowned a big Boy of the week in a while. Maybe we need to do a big Boy of the Season when Kyle gets back, but I would hope we're at least in contention in one way or another.
- [70:26]
Justin Varier
I hope so. No Killian Hayes, love.
- [70:30]
Rob Mahoney
No comment.
- [70:31]
Justin Varier
He's back and better than ever.
- [70:33]
Rob Mahoney
A lot of guys back. Marco Folt's back. Lots of guys just backing around.
- [70:36]
Justin Varier
This is the time to name some guys, Truly. All right, that's it for us. We'll be back on Monday. I think we're going to start some awards handing out here. It's award season. I've already seen it across the timeline, so I got to dig in. Have you started your awards balloting process?
- [70:53]
Rob Mahoney
Only in the most rudimentary fashion. I mean, we got to really dig in this weekend. It's going to be intense. I mean, there's a lot of races that we think have sketched out but still require a lot of parsing. And then it's just like, what do you do with most improved? What do you do with coach of the year? These. These nebulous. I don't know. We can get into it on a future pod, but there's a lot of work to be done.
- [71:12]
Justin Varier
You forced Joe Missoula to take the award just so you could see him grit his teeth through the press conference.
- [71:18]
Rob Mahoney
Honestly, that would be worth it alone or like what assistant he foisted upon claiming that this they actually deserve it instead of him. It's a weird honor.
- [71:29]
Justin Varier
All right, why don't we wrap it there? Thank you to Victoria Valencia. Thank you to Ben Cruz. Thank you to Cliff. We'll be back on Monday with some awards talk. We'll talk to you then. 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus in present in D.C. kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem, call 1-800- GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com, call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.com in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit Gambling Helpline ma.org or call 800-327-50 50 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text HOPE NY in New York. For Louisiana, call 1-877-70-7867.