Shai Shines in Thunder's Thriller Win. Plus, Jayson Tatum’s Return. | Real Ones

Summary

The Ringer NBA Show | Real Ones

Episode: "Shai Shines in Thunder's Thriller Win. Plus, Jayson Tatum’s Return."
Date: March 10, 2026
Hosts: Logan Murdoch, Raja Bell, Howard Beck
Producer/Contributors: Cliff (Boards), Victoria (Video)

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Episode Overview

This episode features Logan, Raja, and Howard dissecting Shai Gilgeous-Alexander’s statement performance in the Thunder's dramatic win over the Nuggets, discussing his MVP case, and analyzing the crowded MVP race. The show later pivots to Jayson Tatum's comeback from injury for the Boston Celtics, what it means for their playoff hopes, and how the rest of the league stacks up approaching the postseason. The mailbag tackles questions about the Warriors' future, “dog” teams, and historical injury comebacks.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander’s MVP Moment & Thunder’s Statement Win

Shai’s Monster Night and MVP Narrative

• Recap: SGA posted 35 points, 9 rebounds, 15 assists, and hit two clutch threes to edge the Nuggets, tying Wilt Chamberlain’s record with his 126th consecutive 20+ point game.
• Christian Braun's Post-Game Quote: “I think he busted my ass tonight, and it's kind of what it is… he made the shot in the big moment. He made a couple of them. So I know I'm gonna see him again. I’m going to play him in the playoffs. I'm very confident he got the better of me of this matchup.” (04:44)
• This game highlighted Shai’s unique ability to elevate both statistically and as a leader, especially under pressure.

Raja’s Take: SGA’s Game & What He Proved

• “He didn't prove anything to me last night. I mean he's in, in my opinion, he's the best player in the NBA.” (05:38)
• Raja emphasized SGA’s efficiency, cerebral control, and his uncanny ability to shift gears as a scorer and facilitator. Naming him perhaps “the best closer in the game.”

Howard’s Perspective: Signature Games & MVP Framing

• Howard pushed back on the notion that one game locks up the MVP:
  “It's all bullshit. All of that is bullshit. I'm telling you, as somebody who has voted for MVP for most of the last 29 years, I don't vote based on at least me. I can't speak for everybody else. It's not about a signature game, and it's not about going head to head against the other guy who's in the running for mvp.” (07:15)
• Howard highlighted recency bias and the weight of narrative but said real MVP cases are built on season-long resume and team performance.

The MVP Field & the 65-Game Rule

• Discussion about SGA’s lead in recent straw polls (ESPN Feb 20: 78 first-place votes vs. Jokic’s 18).
• The importance of eligibility rules (player must play 65 games), impacting SGA, Jokic, and Wemby.

2. Defining the MVP Debate: Team Success vs. Individual Excellence

How Far Can Jokic or Wemby Chase SGA?

• Logan: “I can't put [Jokic] ahead of Wimby nor sga...I think Denver has to go on a real big run right now...” (11:05)
• The crew agreed that for Jokic to have a real MVP shot, the Nuggets would have to surge in standings, possibly to a top-3 seed.

The Role of Team Success in MVP

• Howard: “I'm not putting the guy in the top line of the MVP ballot if his team is sixth in their conference...it's always been a blend of both [excellence and team success], and I still believe in that.” (14:24)
• They discussed Russell Westbrook’s MVP year as a precedent for players outside the top 2/3 seeds.

Nuggets’ Current State & Outlook

• The Nuggets are a “mystery” team due to injuries but remain a playoff threat if recouped.

SGA’s Unique Leadership

• Logan: “He is able to calm the team down and make other players play above themselves. And I think that's what all the great players have.”
• Raja: “He's the ultimate fire extinguisher...he's just as good as anybody in the league at all, putting out that fire real quick.” (23:08)

3. Jayson Tatum’s Return: Substance Over Style

Observations from Tatum’s First Games Back

• The crew dissected Tatum’s performances, noting flashes of his old self but cautioning his burst and explosion were not fully back.
• Raja: “I don't think you're winning the chip [with him at this level]. And so I then said that I don't know that the reward was worth, worth the risk. Like, I'm still standing on that.” (32:27)
• Logan: “He's still not fully back… that easy dunk for Jayson Tatum” became a missed opportunity, showing how far he is from pre-injury form.

Human Response Around Tatum

• Howard highlighted the emotion and support from league peers:
  “The coolest thing about these last two games has been the way everyone else has reacted to him. James Harden and other guys, like opponents, you know, dabbing him up before the game.” (35:42)
• Tatum is “just so happy to be back out here” (Howard, 36:41).

What Tatum Can and Can't Do Right Now

• Positives: Keeps attacking, not tentative about contact.
• Limitations: 75%-90% athleticism, lacking full explosiveness (Howard, 38:38).
• “He is a net plus…if we’re gauging the success of his return…it’s just been really great to see.” (Howard, 39:30)

Celtics’ Reality & Path Forward

• Logan: “Let the game come to him a little bit more…pick his spots a little more as his legs come back” (40:51)
• Raja warned teams might force Tatum to be the scorer, testing if he can regain his game-tilting shot creation.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Christian Braun on defending SGA:
  “I think he busted my ass tonight, and it's kind of what it is.” (04:44)
• Howard on MVP narratives:
  “All of that is bullshit. I'm telling you, as somebody who has voted for MVP… It's not about a signature game…” (07:15)
• Logan on SGA’s leadership:
  “He is able to calm the team down and make other players play above themselves.” (12:01)
• Raja on SGA:
  “He's the ultimate fire extinguisher…putting out that fire real quick.” (23:08)
• Raja on Tatum:
  “I don't think you're winning the chip…if you're going to risk something like that…would be worth it at that point.” (32:27)
• Howard on Tatum’s mindset:
  “He does not look tentative to me…as you would expect from a guy coming back from an Achilles 10 months later, the athleticism…the burst is maybe 90% of where we're used to it being.” (38:38)
• Howard on aging legends:
  “Anytime you get a chance to watch [Steph] hoop, enjoy that.” (54:17)
• Howard on Dominique Wilkins’ Achilles comeback:
  “He was for a time. But some combination of the Achilles and his age made that very short lived.” (69:33)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Start | |-------------------------------------------|-------------| | Opening banter and pod craft | 01:24 | | SGA’s MVP statement game recap | 03:44 | | SGA as best player/closer & MVP resumes | 05:38 | | Team success in MVP race | 11:05 | | Jokic, Wemby, and MVP criteria | 14:24 | | Nuggets & Thunder as playoff threats | 20:26 | | SGA’s calm and leadership qualities | 23:08 | | Denver’s injury/health outlook | 25:22 | | Lead-out for MVP race | 28:26 | | Celtics: Tatum’s injury return | 32:19 | | Tatum’s limitations and next steps | 35:42 | | Tatum’s current impact and advice | 39:30 | | Mailbag begins (Warriors, “dog” teams) | 49:38 | | Warriors: To tank or not? | 52:46 | | Most “dog” teams in the NBA | 58:03 | | Dominique Wilkins injury-comeback debate | 65:31 |

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Mailbag Highlights

Should the Warriors Tank and Sit Steph?

• Logan: Doesn't want Steph shut down, craves seeing him play meaningful games.
• Howard: Understands the temptation for draft positioning, but emphasizes “basketball purity” in watching legends compete. (54:17)

Which Team Has the Most “Dog”?

• Knicks are a prime candidate, but their “dog” level may have peaked a couple postseasons ago. (62:13)
• San Antonio and Detroit cited as tough, competitive teams despite record.
• “Some of [having dog] has to do with winning the game.” (60:37 - Raja)

Dominique Wilkins’ Achilles Recovery Legacy

• Listener wonders why Wilkins isn’t referenced more in discussions about Tatum's comeback.
• Logan: Wilkins' return was once the standard, but volume of Achilles injuries and younger listeners means it's less referenced now. (65:31)
• Howard: Wilkins was spectacular for two years post-injury but declined due to age/Achilles combo. Notes historical context. (69:33)

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Style, Tone, and Atmosphere

The tone is irreverent, highly conversational, and honest—mixing deep hoops analysis with candid personal admissions and plenty of self-aware inside jokes. The banter is good-natured, and the hosts admit their biases and historical perspective, always rooting their discussion in firsthand reporting or lived NBA experience.

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Summary for the Uninitiated

This episode provides a sharp, nuanced assessment of the MVP race headlined by SGA’s otherworldly play and what it means for the Thunder’s playoff equity. The hosts explain why “signature moments” are only part of a season-long MVP case—keep an eye on team results and the 65-game requirement! The Celtics’ hopes hinge on how fully Jayson Tatum recovers, with explanations of what he’s already contributing and what he may never fully regain this season. The mailbag spotlights Warriors’ team-building decisions and what defines a “dog” team in today’s NBA.

Whether you’re wondering if SGA is truly the NBA’s best or curious about the hidden layers behind a superstar’s return from injury, this episode delivers depth, perspective, and a heavy dose of entertainment.

Transcript

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[Howard Beck]

I don't need an astronaut.

[Raja Bell]

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[Logan Murdoch]

What's poppin? Real ones. Logan Murdoch here. Raja Beldaire, Howard Beck there. Cliff on the boards. Victoria on the video. I've been told by Victoria that I can't be looking in and out of frame. And I agree with her because I've been looking over the last couple episodes and I'm like, over here out of frame, over here out of frame. So I'm just going to try to do my best here as we talk about Shay's MVP case.

[Raja Bell]

And you watched it. You watched the episodes.

[Logan Murdoch]

I only watch them on Netflix because I'm trying to juice our numbers. I'm a one man numbers juicer.

[Raja Bell]

Okay.

[Cliff]

Okay.

[Raja Bell]

I thought, like, thought maybe you were using it to like, you know, replay and go over some film about your.

[Logan Murdoch]

I do that too. No, actually, really, I, I do. I do because I want to hear what people. Because like it's one thing to, you know, listen to you guys in real time, but at that, when I'm during the pod, I'm actually like, what's the next question gonna be? How am I gonna set up this person? Point guard, point guard, you know, passing here. What am I going to take? Mike or two shots a game. And during the pod, listening back over it, I, you know, dang, I could have, could have set up Rob better. I could have set up Howard better. You know Just doing what I got to do.

[Raja Bell]

Howard, do you. Do you rewatch Howard?

[Howard Beck]

Like, hell no.

[Raja Bell]

Okay. I don't feel bad. Okay.

[Logan Murdoch]

I mean, good, good.

[Howard Beck]

I respect Logan's, like, dedication to the craft, film study, you know, look for. For little, you know, things here and there. Kind of tighten it up, you know, refine your game, all that. That's great. I'm not rewatching myself. I'm not re. Listening to myself. A buddy of mine hit me the other day with, like, oh, man, that was a really cool conversation you guys had on Friday. I'm like, wait, which. What do we say? And he starts describing it in this text, and I'm like, I'm sorry. I don't even remember that. Like, I forget. The second we turn the recorder off, I'm off to the next thing. And I have. I have no recollection of what we just poded about.

[Raja Bell]

Say, yes, I hear you, but I can appreciate.

[Logan Murdoch]

Howard. I can.

[Raja Bell]

I mean, I can appreciate that completely. Logan. I can appreciate it. I don't, but I. I should.

[Logan Murdoch]

I'll be locked in sometimes, like, even during the discussion, I'm out here texting timestamps to Cliff and Victoria. I'm just. I'm just trying to be locked in. I'm trying to make it, you know, so.

[Raja Bell]

PG's have a lot on their plate, bro. They gotta. I mean, generally PGs, QBs, you know this. You guys have a lot going on.

[Logan Murdoch]

Speaking of pgs with a lot on their plate, Raja Alexander.

[Raja Bell]

I'm a combo guard.

[Logan Murdoch]

You know, the vibes. 35 points, nine rebounds, 15 assists, and two big shots last night against the Nuggets, which honestly is. I don't have the numbers in front of me. I don't have the rankings in front of me. Ranks is one of the best games of the season and really great playoff preview if you know, the Nuggets can get there, and we'll talk about them in a second. But it felt like one of the signature games of the season, and it felt like the Nuggets were down the stretch, were gonna get the upper hand on the Thunder. And then Shay said, nah. Hit two bonkers threes, including the game winner with a few seconds left. It was his 126th consecutive game with at least 20 points, and that tied Wilt Chamberlain for the NBA record on Monday night. Great quote here from Christian Braun. I think he busted my ass tonight, and it's kind of what it is. I played him enough, and I know I've had enough good games against him. I think that last game, I know I played him well and got a block in a big moment tonight. He made the shot in the big moment. He made a couple of them. So I know I'm gonn him again. I'm going to play him in the playoffs. I'm very confident he got the better of me of this matchup. This also seemed like we have a few games this around this time of the season that we see where it is, especially when there's a two player race for mvp and we're going to get into that discussion as well. But there's always the games towards the end of the season when those players play against each other, when a player takes hold of the MVP and also takes, in this particular case, takes hold of the mythical, baddest dude in the game trophy. And I think Shay did both of those today. Granted, Shay has to stay healthy for the rest of the season. He's only allowed to miss seven more games to remain in the MVP discussion. But based on what we saw, I'm going to start with Raja and I'm going go to Howard. What did Shea prove to you last night?

[Raja Bell]

Yeah, this probably doesn't make for great potting, but he, he didn't prove anything to me last night. I mean he's in, in my opinion, he's the best player in the NBA. Like he, you know, it's an efficient scoring output. He's got a real uncanny ability to kind of work his way through a game cerebrally. I think he talked about it a little bit even after, but like we had been saying that from, from years past, like he, not every scorer is able to come out slow, really facilitate and get other people going, understand what the defense is doing and then when, when it's needed the most, just click that scoring prowess on like that. I mean, some can, but other guys are rhythm guys. Like they got to get it going early, they got to keep it going. He's remarkable in that ability to kind of just figure out what's going on. You think he's going to have a slow night and now he's got 34. You know, his, his ability to kind of facilitate has, has continued to get better and better. I, you know, you talked about the two huge shots last night, but he was coming off of a shot, you know, against Golden State that was kind of similar to that. So he's just a problem man with the ball in his hands. I don't think he proved anything to me tonight. He just, you know, solidified for me who I know him to Be, which is probably the best closer in the game, and in my opinion, the best. Maybe we get into the best player argument. There are other things, but, like, the best scorer for sure. And definitely in the conversation. Top three players in the NBA, in my opinion.

[Logan Murdoch]

Did he wrap up the mvp? Howard?

[Howard Beck]

I mean, he definitely wrapped up clutch player of the year, the most vaunted of NBA awards. The clutch player of the year. I think he locked that up. Seriously. He actually is, like, leading the league in clutch points, which is scoring in less than five minutes with the score within five points. No, we didn't lock up MVP. Come on, it's March 10th. We have still, I don't know, 18, 20 games to go there. There are these things that circulate every so often and doesn't happen every year, but the narrative sometimes be like, oh, you need a signature game, a signature win, or head to head against the other guy who's in the running for mvp. It's all bullshit. All of that is bullshit. I'm telling you, as somebody who has voted for MVP for most of the last 29 years, I don't vote based on at least me. I can't speak for everybody else. It's not about a signature game, and it's not about going head to head against the other guy who's in the running for mvp. What happens down the stretch sometimes weighs a little heavier because you want to see teams finish strong. And especially when you're a guy like Shay who, like, the resume is already there, to Raj's point, like, he didn't have to prove anything last night. They could have lost the game. And it has zero impact on the MVP race that we're now discussing. We already know what the resume is. We already know what he did in last night's game, even if he misses the last shot. But, you know, there's a little bit of recency bias sometimes. So what happens down the stretch of a season might leave a heavier impression. And, you know, it's. It's nice to finish strong and to kind of, like, put finishing touches on it. Right? Like, it's an underscore. It's not the case. It's underscoring the case. Right? It's. Oh, right. That's why this dude's, like, a freaking badass and one of the best players in the NBA. And why he's the defending MVP already and why the Thunder won the championship. It's because of moments like this and games like this. He's, like, super efficient. He's scoring. It will and he's hitting the biggest shot of the night in a. What was an incredible game after Jokic had just hit what could have been the shot of the night that became a four point play because Jalen Williams couldn't hit the brakes.

[Raja Bell]

What are we doing? Sorry, Jaylen. What are we doing?

[Howard Beck]

Yeah, what are we doing?

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Sorry.

[Howard Beck]

That was. That was nearly. It's just a regular season game, but that's the kind of thing like you do that in like a playoff game. That's a catastrophic mistake for sure. But Anyway, for the MVP, I'll just remind people this. The latest ESPN straw poll was just a few weeks ago, February 20th. Shay had 78 first place votes to Jokic's 18. And Shay had 930 total points to Jokic's 700. And then nobody else was even close to, um. So Shay was already leading this by a healthy margin. And the only thing that's going to change the MVP race down the stretch, I think would be, does Shea get hurt? Does he get hurt for enough games that he falls below the 65 game threshold? Do the Thunder fade at all? Do the Nuggets have some like, last minute surge? Does somebody else crash the party? Right. Does Wemby get into this thing? He may, but he's got a games played concern too. And. And Jokic can only miss two more, I think, or I think he can miss one more. If he misses two more, he's out. So there are some other factors at play here, but Shay's been leading this thing the whole season, and last night was just a reminder of why he was leading it.

[Raja Bell]

Hey, sorry. But let me ask one, Logan, can I get the ball first? I get it. I got it, you guys. I mean, Logan, you don't have a vote, do you? Logan?

[Logan Murdoch]

I don't, but.

[Raja Bell]

All right, let's say you're on the. You're more in the media side than me, but like narrative narrators be damned, just. You're talking about. Let's assume both of those two, Jokic and Wemby, stay healthy enough to like to be in the running for that, right? Like Wemby getting into first place, the spurs enough for you as a voter, Howard, or you, Logan? And then what would. What would Jokic and the Nuggets have to do in terms of positioning in the Western Conference for him to have a real credible case to be sga.

[Logan Murdoch]

I don't. Okay, so I think. I don't think that Yogic has. I think he has a case based on his stats at this point. But in terms of team play this year. I. I can't put him ahead of Wimby nor sga.

[Raja Bell]

Yeah, but let's say, let's say, let's say, let's say. Okay, see stays one. Where would he need to get his team to? I guess is what I'm asking you

[Logan Murdoch]

to for those stats match, I guess probably in the top three. Like they have to go on a real. I think Denver has to go on a real big run right now, which is really hard because they're just. People have just been. They've been gutted by injuries. Right. With Gordon, with Peyton Watson having missing time, half of the roster like so it's not all Jokic his fault he's been injured. I think they would have to go on a real run down the stretch for him to even get into second place at this point. I think that the body of work that Shay has put together and the body of work that Wimby has put together is a pretty. Is kind of insurmountable. Right. Wimby's case is he brought a team. Now we might have thought that the team was going to be good going into the season, but I think the grand calculus was the spurs were, you know, be a fun playing team, maybe a 6C. That would be success. The fact that they are a top five team is in large part because of what Wimby has done and his stats back that up as it relates to Shay. I think Shay's most impressive thing is he's been able to keep the Thunder at a number one pace all season because he's been, you know, with the stats. But he's also been just a great equalizer in terms of injuries for the Oklahoma City Thunder. Right. Like Chet, I don't believe he played last night. J Dub is missed an extended period of time, but the only constant for that great team has been Shay. Right. And you saw that last night, you know, one of the times. One thing I really love about Shea is he and I wrote about this after Game 5 of the NBA Finals last year is the way that he plays the game. He is able to calm the team down and make other players play above themselves. And I think that's what all the great players have. And I saw that in Game 5 of the NBA Finals, right? Where J do I got all the stat line and he was the player of the game. But if you really look at that, anytime there was a run being made by the Pacers, Shea was able to hit a clutch bucket just in time to kind of either calm the run down or put the game out of reach. And that's something that. That he was able to do last night. Right. When, you know, Jay Will makes that boneheaded mistake, it's Shea that is somebody that is able to, you know, keep them afloat. And all the great players have that calmness, right? Jordan had that calmness. Kobe had that calmness. LeBron has that. That calmness. Jokic has that calmness. And that's something that you. You really need. And I think that, you know, you add that to, you know, what OKC has been able to do despite all of the injuries that could have taken them down in a season like that. I gotta give Shay the upper hand. But to your question, I just. I think Jokic has the personal stat line. I just don't think his team has been able to bring him along to get that mvp because there's just so many different factors, right, Howard? Like, it's not just. It's an individual award on the merits of that. It's Most Valuable Player. But so many things have to go together for you to get an mvp.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah, look, there's a movement of people out there, including other voters, who, in this era, I think, are more inclined to play down the team record and make this more of an individual award. And it's always been a blend of both, and I still believe in that. Right. Like, I'm not putting the guy in the top line of the MVP ballot if his team is sixth in their conference. I'm sorry. Like. And that's where the Duggets are right now.

[Logan Murdoch]

Real quick, what did I ask you real quick on that? On that point? How did you. And I don't. I don't even know how you voted on this, but how did you. With that being said, how did you vote the Russell Westbrook MVP discussion? Because that goes right into it. Right? And I don't. I don't want to cause a whole firestorm on the podcast, but I really want to get educated on how the

[Raja Bell]

rails you want to go off.

[Logan Murdoch]

Sorry. Sorry.

[Howard Beck]

You're trying to get Raja mad at me.

[Logan Murdoch]

No, I'm not. No, I'm not. I really.

[Raja Bell]

I was here for peace. I was here for, like, vibes.

[Logan Murdoch]

Let's go.

[Howard Beck]

The next. The next thing you know, we're going to be talking about what Russ did to the Sacramento media a few years ago.

[Logan Murdoch]

No, no, no, no, no.

[Raja Bell]

I really just run it out. We're not.

[Logan Murdoch]

No, it's not. No, it's not. No, no, no, no, no, no.

[Howard Beck]

Right off the fucking rails. I'M going to wait until Raj has finished drinking and I don't want him, I don't want to spitting on his microphone. Those things are expensive. I had rushed third that year, Logan behind. Look at, look at, look at, look at Raj's face.

[Raja Bell]

I don't know who are the other guys? Please just tell me who the other guys were because I don't remember.

[Howard Beck]

James Harden was first and Kawhi Leonard was second. Kawhi got like 15 or so I think first place votes that year including Zach Lowe. He had a great like more of like a two way case. Right? Like the stat line wasn't as gaudy as Hardens and Westbrook's but Hardens of Westbrook stat lines were super close. Westbrook I think ended up with maybe two more rebounds per game or something and they were both double digit assists if I recall. I'm not even looking this up. It was super close. But Russ had the magical triple double average for the season. Ooh, a whole two more rebounds per game that Stephen Adams made way for him to get. And Harden had by far.

[Logan Murdoch]

He said he wasn't going to push you over to Edge Ross.

[Raja Bell]

You know what me right now, I'm not.

[Howard Beck]

We're already here.

[Raja Bell]

I'm not.

[Howard Beck]

We were already here. And Harden's efficiency stats were way, way better. Of course James Harden's a much more efficient scorer than Russ and the Rockets had the better record anyway. So I went Harden, Kawhi, Russ that year and yeah, Russ's team was whatever. They were fifth, sixth. I can't remember now but they, they had fallen under 50 games. Like I'm not saying like the precedent makes for an absolute structure that we have to fit everything into because for the longest time we had like a 35 year run where every single MVP was first or second in their conference and their team was minimum 50 wins or the equivalent in a lockout shortened season. Bullshit. We've had a couple since then. We've had two outliers.

[Raja Bell]

Two.

[Howard Beck]

Two that really did not fit the old mold that has stood for like now 40 something years. Russ and the one of Jokic's years, right? I did not vote for Russ that year and I did not vote for Jokic that year. I'm not trying to be rigid about it but I do think that we. Because then what happens is fan bases and some of the teams complain about consistency. Well, some years you guys say the wins matter and some years you don't. I am trying to be consistent over time in this and my consistent stance is it is a combination of individual excellence and team success, and the team success component really matters. I'm. You can't be an MVP off of a.500 team, and everybody would agree to that. So we all agree the wins matter. We just decide where to calibrate or where to. To draw the line of how many wins or where in the standings. And I have a higher bar than some other people with that. It's. It's not just that, like, Nugget. The Nuggets record, it is. Is not great right now. They've been pretty blah since Jokic came back from his knee. They're like 7 and 10, I think in his 17 games back with a net rating, that's like middle of the pack. Like, they're just not that great right now. And Jokic's stat line is fucking crazy as it always is. His efficiency is off the charts. Like, Shai beats him in points by a couple points a game. But Jokic has him in rebounds. Jokic has him in assists. Jokic has him in the efficiency stats, effective field goal percentage, true shooting, all of that. But Shay's got a, like, just a much better overall.

[Logan Murdoch]

That's the biggest case, though, right? Because I feel like they both dealt with similar circumstances as a team, right? You know, injuries, right. They've been injured themselves and this was supposed to be the year that Denver had the depth. You know, there was really no excuses going into this season.

[Howard Beck]

Well, yeah, on that. On that note. On that note.

[Logan Murdoch]

And.

[Howard Beck]

And listen, the. The Thunder were missing three starters last night, like Chad Holmgren, Isaiah Hartenstein, and Jdub all out. So the Nuggets can't play the Peyton Watson card or the Aaron Gordon just came back card or we haven't been the same since Jokic got back card. However, like, they have been really banged up, right? First long injury stretch of Jokic's entire career. Missing the 16, 17 games with the knee. Gordon has missed a massive chunk of the season. Just got back two games ago, but he looked pretty damn good last night. Peyton Watson's still out, and they don't have enough of that. Like, the Thunder are insanely deep, and so Shay's so great that their depth plus his. His individual greatness carries them. The Thunder, I think just the margin for error is. Is less. And like, I'm dismissing the 3, 0 Oklahoma vs Denver record right now because of how choppy those box scores are when you look at who was available. Plus, by the way, like, one of those was an overtime win by the Thunder, and last night came down to a shot with 2.7 seconds left. So I still think these teams are closer than that record suggests. But, you know, we'll see in the playoffs if everybody's finally healthy.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah, I don't. I think the Nuggets are the biggest mystery going into the playoffs. Right. Because on one hand, I wouldn't be surprised they got out of the Western Conference if they were fully whole and, you know, just. If they were fully whole and they were just everything, all cylinders were going at the right time. Right. But on the other hand, they've been playing so bad, they're a game and a half out of the playing right now. Right. That's crazy. Who thought that was going to happen a month ago? And so they're still figuring themselves out. I don't. But last night was telling. Because if you were to tell me that the Nuggets are going to go into Oklahoma City without Hartenstein and without Chet Holmgren, I'd be like, oh, okay. Well, the Nuggets have a really, really good chance of winning this game with Aaron Gordon back in the lineup. Right. But that was the power of Shay Raj, that he can help overcome. All of that combined with the depth, and I don't have those similar concerns with okc. I'm just like, oh, Shay's in the game. Shay is in the lineup. I think they have a really good shot of winning a series. Right. And that is with J Dub in and out of the lineup and the uncertainty of that. And then Chet Go Homegren in and out of the lineup. As long as he's getting to that point where, as long as he's on the roster, I. I think they're going to win a series type of deal.

[Raja Bell]

Yeah. I mean, he's. They've just got their depth. Like Howard just talked about it. They can just withstand so much more from a. From an injury standpoint and still be able to put fires out defensively and, you know, make shots and just do things that you have to do around Shay to win games when, like, one of his other co stars is out.

[Logan Murdoch]

Right.

[Raja Bell]

Like they. Denver does. Denver's not afforded the same amount of leeway in terms of what they can afford to miss.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah.

[Raja Bell]

And. And still have a chance to win games. Right. So.

[Logan Murdoch]

But I would have agree.

[Raja Bell]

I would have agreed with you. Like, if you're going to beat them going in there with everybody they were missing last night, you would have. That's. That's when you get them.

[Logan Murdoch]

It was one of those ultimate too, where like the Nuggets did Like, the Nuggets were down a lot of that game. Like, the Thunder control, pace, they controlled three point shooting. They controlled all of that. It took a lastest ever for Denver to even get back in the game.

[Raja Bell]

He's just a fire. He. You know, you made a really good point about him, man. Like, and I haven't parsed this all the way out because it's just coming to me, like, stream of consciousness. But like, when you're, you know, when your best player has it in his hands the whole time and Jokic has it a lot, but like, sometimes, you know, a lot of times Jokic will get it in the front court and then he. Then he's your. Then he's your guy. There's something to be said when. When he's just got it in his hands and. And that calmness that permeates through the team like that, that flow that he gets into, and you could see it's kind of infectious, right? Like, he's the ultimate fire extinguisher.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yep.

[Raja Bell]

You know, things. Things are going wrong. A fire pops up. You know, Denver's hot. You got to have something like, he. He's just as good as anybody in the league at all, putting out that fire real quick. And he doesn't even have to be the one that gets hot, but he'll just put the fire out for you and then they have the depth where. Where it can be other people that supplement with the scoring and stuff like that. But. But it is. It is a really, really unique part of his game that doesn't show up on stat sheets. I thought it was a great point, Logan, just his ability to, you know, infectiously kind of like have the other people see him in that calm space. And I've talked about this all the time as role player. Look into your star to see what they're on. He never looks at a character. Even when he's not playing great, he's always in character. And that's a really good spot, really safe, a safe place for the rest of his team.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yo, you think about the. I'm looking at the. The clips of the last three games that he's had, right? The game, stealing three against OG Anunoby. The game stealing three against Draymond, who Draymond, even at this age, is playing incredible defense now. His offense is kind of.

[Raja Bell]

Draymond was there, amazing close out from

[Logan Murdoch]

Draymond and Draymond was like, right. Draymond, by the way, who was coming off of one of the best defensive performances of his late stage career. Against Durant, playing against and. And really playing some good basketball against over the last few years or last few games. Excuse me. And then to have this step back three after a crazy run and after the J Will mishap last night, like in all three of those scenarios, you just see that calmness, right? You're like, oh, okay, we're going to be okay with Shea with the ball in his hands. He's great. I can't wait to see what happens. I want to stay quickly on Denver before we go to talk about Tatum. What do we see happening there? Because they're. They were so excited for the offseason, and rightfully so. They really retooled. I think their front office did a great job, but it's just. It's still a. It feels like a normal Nuggets type of season. Right. Where they don't really finish strong, but they're kind of laying in the weeds. Cause you can't really write them off too much. Howard, where do you see them? And then I'll go with Howard before

[Howard Beck]

we get out of here, just to. To note this. Cause you mentioned, like, oh, my gosh, they're only a game and a half out of the play in, which is startling to. To see when you look down at the standings, they're also a game and a half out of third.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah, that's the Western Conference right now.

[Howard Beck]

That's the Western Conference. So funny.

[Raja Bell]

We were also.

[Logan Murdoch]

I'm looking at the standings. We were about the Rockets, and then we're talking about the Lakers last week like they were dead in the water. They're fourth and fifth right now.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah, yeah. But I'm not taking any of them seriously anyway. Sorry.

[Logan Murdoch]

No, no, no. But I'm just saying that's just how close the race is right now.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah, no, it is. It's crazy. And the Nuggets, you know, if. If it all just kind of like, all right, Gordon's back now. He's looking pretty good. His hamstrings hold up. I think that that helps a lot. Right. Like, that, like, he's a huge part of just their front court depth, but their. Their defense, their interior presence. You saw that last night. He's super important to them. And so I. I'm giving Denver some grace right now. Let's see what happens over these last four weeks or so as they kind of get whole. I think Peyton Watson should be back sometime soon as well. And I'm not writing the Nuggets off. The one thing I'll always say about veteran teams and the Nuggets fit this category, especially as a semi recent championship winner. I don't care where they are in the seatings. Right. They can win a road game in a best of seven series if they have to. They'll be fine. So it's not so much about the record or where they finish in the standings. I mean that, that again, that matters for MVP purposes, but it doesn't matter in terms of how I view them as a threat in the West. I still think the Nuggets are right there with the spurs as the two and maybe Minnesota as the teams that are most likely to make a conference finals run and, or have a shot at knocking out the Thunder if anybody does. And I do think it's more just a matter of them getting whole and getting back in rhythm. The record has been kind of mad as I say, with Jokic back, but he looks like him. Jamal Murray's looking pretty good. He's having his best season still. I, I just think that they don't have a ton of margin for error with the, the rest of that supporting cast. So they're still there.

[Raja Bell]

Yeah, I couldn't or probably wouldn't have said that any better. I just, I think they're, you got to give them a little bit of time to really make a, this, to really make a true assessment on what they'll look like in the playoffs. They need to get healthy. It was always going to be about their health, you know, going into the playoffs once they started suffering all those injuries and because I don't know what that 3, 4, 5 looks like in the west after, after the two teams that I really, really trust. I'm with Howard in that. If you get them in the playoffs, you tell me you got Jokic, Murray, who's a killer in the playoffs too. Aaron Gordon, you're healthy. Yeah, I'll throw them in the mix against any of those teams, you know, in the Western Conference. I don't. Including San Antonio, if they're playing well. But I don't, you know, I would reserve judgment on that. I need to see what they look like if they round back into real form over the next few weeks.

[Howard Beck]

Two quick things before we leave this topic. Logan. These guys, the, the, the Nuggets and Thunder do play one more time April 10, but that's the second to last game of the season and it's like we're going to be firmly in the. Everybody resting their guys for the playoffs unless they're seating at stake. So like we do get one more game between these teams before the playoffs. But it may be one of those bummer games where it's just nothing but backups. And then the second thought is to go back to what Roger said earlier cause we didn't really. We kind of veered away from it. But I am curious just quickly, do we think there's any scenario where it's somebody other than Shay or Jokic? And Jokic, again distant second in the straw poll most recently can like when we crash this party, I will say. And the reason I bring this up, another prominent NBA national reporter had suggested to me a few weeks back. I don't know if he's said this on the record anywhere, so I don't want to say it by name, but he said if the spurs somehow dislodge the Thunder at the top of the west standings, Wemby wins it. And I'm not sure if I agree, but it's an interesting premise to kick around.

[Raja Bell]

That's why I asked you because I thought I was going to tee you up for that. Howard, like I am interested to hear how because I think if it's I tend to think that if he if they overtake Oklahoma City, I don't know that I would vote for him. But I think they will vote for him for MVP if the spurs are sitting there at first in the Western Conference when the dust settles.

[Logan Murdoch]

But I also, I just don't see that happening with Shay back in the lineup. Like I think Shay was out of the lineup. And then that's when we had the questions about OKC comes back. They're right back as the best team in the league. Firmly. You could see it night in and night out. They're gonna have some tests going up going forward. They got the Celtics on Thursday, but the Thunder continue to roll as long as Shay is in there. In my opinion, that would be my prediction. But anyways, say a quick break. Talk about Tatum. The Ringer NBA show is brought to you by FanDuel March is here, basketball fans and FanDuel is bringing you closer to the action, giving all customers a profit boost every single day through March 15th from now till the final 68 is revealed, you're getting daily profit boosts for a chance at boosted winnings on college basketball bets. There's only one game in the top 25 tonight and that is Santa Clara versus Gonzaga. I think I'm going to take Gonzaga outright and I'm going to take the under in the WCC tournament. Build the same game parlay or try live betting. Best of all with Fanduel you get paid instantly when you win. That's FanDuel.com Ringer MBA to claim your profit boost and keep the action going from now till selection Day. Be part of college basketball history and bet the bracket with FanDuel must be 21 years and older in select states and 18 and older in D.C. kentucky or Wyoming. Opt in Required bonus issued is non withdrawable Profit boost tokens restrictions apply. See [e-mail] gambling problem call 1-800-gambler or call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org backslash chat

[Raja Bell]

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[Logan Murdoch]

Connecticut and we are back. Man, Raja, I don't know if we ate crow this weekend, but Tatum looked pretty good.

[Raja Bell]

Yeah, I mean, I don't, I don't. I mean, I'll eat crow when I have to eat crow. Like I didn't, I didn't necessarily. My point on the Jayson Tatum situation, and it remains, is that I don't know that you're winning the Western Conference watching that. I mean, you're beating a team out of the West. Like I said that watching him play and then play, I think further cements that for me. I don't think you're winning the chip. And so I then said that I don't know that the reward was worth, worth the risk. Like I'm still standing on that. Like, I didn't say he was going to be bad. You know, I don't know that if you're really watching him, like there were points scored, you know, that first game was really rough. You're knocking a lot of the rust off and then he got one to go down and, and in the, in the Cavs game, I think he Looked a little more fluid. But if you're really watching him, you know that that leg, while there's not really a substantial, like, limp or anything like that, like, he's not firing off of that. Like, that burst isn't there. He's not. He's not Jason Tatum pre injury now. He might not need to be. And that's okay. Right. Like we talked about that, too. The rest of that Eastern Conference has so many flaws in terms of teams that. That might be enough for. For Boston to. To find their way into the finals. I just don't think there's really any path that I see personally for them winning the finals. And if you're going to potentially risk something like that, and I'm not calling for that, I'm past that. Like, but if you're going to risk some. That was always my case that I don't know that it would be worth it at that point because I don't see them with him in the form that he can achieve from now until the Finals. Like, I don't think you see him get that burst back. Will he look better than he's looked so far? And he's looked pretty good. Absolutely. But I don't think you see that twitchy, twitchy burst lift. I don't. I don't think all those things come back in this amount of time. I think that's next year for him. But it was good to see him out there and he did look good and I'm happy for him. But I still think I fall on the same side of the ledger that I did.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah. I think there was. You could see, I would say, how much more could have happened if you wait.

[Raja Bell]

Right.

[Logan Murdoch]

Like, he's. He's still not fully back in the fact that, you know that Ms. Dunk early on when he's in the lane, that's just usually the easy dunk for Jason Tatum. And then.

[Raja Bell]

Yeah, mind you, he's six, eight. He's six, eight. Like that.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah. That was getting hung at the rim.

[Raja Bell]

I mean, I've been hung. I'm not judging, but, like, that's. That's a little telling.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah. And then Jaylen Brown trying to throw that live was just so scandalous. He didn't do that. He did not have to do that. What do you. What did you see, Howard? And what do you think the next few weeks will reveal about where he is and where he's going? Because the Eastern Conference is just so. It's not even weird. It's just really hard to gauge. Right. Because you can look dominant against the Cavs, and the Cavs go ahead and play OKC without all their starters and still lose. Right. So like you, you can't really gauge how good a team is all the way down the Eastern Conference based on record at all. No.

[Howard Beck]

And the Pistons have just gotten in a late season rut here and everybody's like starting to question them. And the Knicks just lost back to back games in la. Like, who the hell knows what's going on with the Eastern Conference, right? The Tatum thing, let me, let me hit it on a human level first, because the coolest thing about these last two games has been the way everyone else has reacted to him. James Harden and other guys, like opponents, you know, dabbing him up before the game. And you can see the quick chit chat and you just know what that's about, you know, and they're smiling and, you know, it's about like they're, they're happy for him as, as an opponent.

[Logan Murdoch]

As a rival called. Called the NBA a brotherhood after the Cavaliers game.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah. And that's how it is in this era. Right. I know, you know, old heads from the 90s don't always like it, but like it's a brotherhood and these guys are rooting for each other. They want to.

[Logan Murdoch]

It was a brotherhood then too. They just.

[Raja Bell]

No, no, no. Like, yeah, I just want to push. Like we, we might not have been like all Kumbaya as much as they are, but like, as it relates to injuries like that and seeing your guy come back, I think that's always been, you know.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I, I agree. But just seeing the way that, that his teammates and opponents have reacted to him, seeing the smile on his face, just like, even after the games, his post games with like George Sedano, I think he did on both games, it was just like, man, I'm just, just so happy to be back out here. And you could just see how grateful he is. And you know, Jason Tatum has not been the most expressive or the most forthcoming of the stars in this league. Right. We don't talk about him as face of the league potential because he has

[Logan Murdoch]

a lack of aura.

[Howard Beck]

He's. He's pretty, he's pretty low key. Right? There's, there's not a lot there. Not like he's not, he's not about all swagger and he's not about like, he's, he's just. Him, he's just, he's just a dude who loves playing the game at a super high level. And I just, I, I Appreciate just seeing the. The emotion from him and how appreciative he is of being able to be back so soon and to look pretty much like himself. And, yeah, there's caveats. I say the same thing that Raja did, which is just like, yeah, the burst is not there. The shot making is there. The touch is there. His feel for the game, his rebounding is still there. And he's the one thing Raja, I thought was a really good sign. Despite the lack of explosion, he's not afraid to mix it up in the paint. He's not afraid to drive into guys. He's not afraid to draw contact. He's not worrying about that. He sometimes looks like he's a little. Being a little bit ginger about. About landing. Right. He's, like, approaching that. Yeah. Like, when he. When he does grab the rim, he's hanging for a second and waiting. He doesn't want to land on anybody. Like, he's a little landing gingerly is the way I should have put it. But he's not afraid of contact. He does not look tentative to me. But as you would expect from a guy coming back from an Achilles 10 months later, the athleticism, the burst is what, maybe 90% of where we're used to it. It being. I don't know how you gauge that, but 80. There's a 80.

[Logan Murdoch]

I was going to say 75, but

[Raja Bell]

yeah, that's not 90. That's not. But still, it's okay. It's okay.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah, he's.

[Howard Beck]

He shot 6 for 16 in both games, which, like, under ordinary circumstances, is not what you want from your superstar. But under the circumstances, it's like, you know what? 15, 12 and 7. The first game, 20 points, 3 rebounds, 2 assists. The second game played, 27 minutes in both held up well. His moving his feet well on defense, I think, too. Another kind of important calling card of his game and his playmaking is there. Like I. He is a net plus. That's the thing. If we're gauging the success of his return in terms of not just his individual stats, but what it does for Boston, Raja's point is, is valid. I don't know that anybody was beating the west regardless this season, but you have a better chance with Tatum out there them than not. And he's a net plus for them right now. And it's just been really great to see.

[Logan Murdoch]

One of the things that I. That I did like, and I'm gonna throw it to you on this Raja, is he could do a better job of this Tatum, but he's still trusting his other teammates around him have done a really good job stepping up and like get one, getting him the ball. But two, when he's not on, really kind of taking up the mantle for him. Right. Like Peyton Pritchard in that Cleveland game was really, really good at doing that. One thing that I, that I want to see from Tatum even more is. And he kind of did this in the Cleveland game is kind of let the game come a little bit more to him. And I think that that'll happen even more as the weeks go along. Kind of letting the game come to him and kind of letting. Being okay with the fact maybe if he misses the first couple of shots to not Chuck as much as he did maybe in that first game. A lot of had to do with adrenaline and things like that. The other thing that he complained about was the minutes restriction that Joe Missoula said that doesn't exist, even though it kind of does. That's a Howard. It's a Howard maddening point. But one thing that I do like about what he's doing and he continue to do better. Raja is just letting the game kind of come to him a little bit more and letting the other guys who know this new version of the Celtics kind of take him where he needs to go and get him where he fits in and hits the open threes when they get it to him and then pick his spots a little bit more as his legs come back underneath him.

[Raja Bell]

Yeah, yeah. I'm just. Sorry. I just went back and I pulled up because I wanted to see every, you know, I watched the game real time, but I just wanted to watch his, his, his makes against Cleveland again and see how he was moving to refresh that. I do think he did a pretty good job even in the first game. Logan, like, I was watching kind of intently to see how he was going to come out and he really was facilitating like early in that game. Like, he wasn't making his shots when they, when they presented themselves early. But he did have like four or five, like quick assists in that game. So I appreciated the fact that he came back and it wasn't me, me, me, me, me. Right. Like, not. I wasn't necessarily worried about that. I was really just interested to see how he would approach. Is a great luxury to have for a player like him, you know, coming back off of an injury like that to know that, you know, A, Jalen Brown's there, you know, B, they've been really, really good in your absence. And what they have is what, like, you hope Detroit would have. And, and even when I watch Cleveland against them, like, you're like, man, they have a bunch of dudes that if you give them the ball can create a play. You know, they've got. At least they've got guys that you give them the ball and there's nothing there. They'll create a play whether it's for them.

[Logan Murdoch]

Stick to your point really quickly, Roger. The thing that I hate about Cleveland watching them is they're all, they're the, in theory, all Stars, right? In theory, they should be a championship contender, but then when you watch them play, there's something missing there.

[Raja Bell]

If j. If James Harden. And look again, it's a small sample size so far, and I'm talking about this one specific game. But if he's not going to be a prime, like, if you're going to put him in pick and roll and expect the level of production out of pick and roll for everyone else, he's got to look to score out of pick and roll more often.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah.

[Raja Bell]

Because if you're not looking to be a primary scorer coming off of pick and roll, they don't honor you in that way as the ball handler. That. And if they don't honor you, then you're not pulling the help defense in a way that opens other people up. And so, you know, in, in that world, you're throwing the ball to someone who's covered and he's got to be able to make a play because you didn't create the play. And so, you know, I'm, I'm watching that game. I'm a little bit with you, Logan. But as far as Jason Tatum goes, he has some real luxuries in terms of his, his comeback and what he has to do for them to be able to be, you know, the, the level of team that they want to be in the Eastern Conference. I, I would, I would say this, and it's going to be interesting. He moved okay defensively. I don't think he moved great defensively. I think that when, when I came back from lower leg injuries and they weren't as significant as an Achilles, the hardest part of your game to find again is that deep jump shot because so much force has to be generated and typically your legs are shot right like you're out there and you think you're in great shape until you've gone up and down five times and now your legs are kind of juiced. And so you saw that with the

[Logan Murdoch]

three point air balls, the three shoot, shot it well.

[Raja Bell]

And that's okay. That's okay. Like, you'll find your form. But if I'm an opposing team and like this is, this is a month and a half down the road when I'm scouting him. I thought teams, I thought the first two games people played him like the old Jayson Tatum and I would, I would play him like a new version of Jason Tatum. Meaning, hey, bro, I'm going to give up some of these contested long jump shots from you and I'm going to challenge them with a hand up. And I'm not going to run by you and let you be a facilitator. You have to score the ball and that's, that's that. If someone can get him in that mode and their team in that mode where you're challenging him to be the score from last year, I will be interested to see what that looks like because maybe he rounds into that. I'm not saying he can't, but like right now that's not where he's at. So I saw a lot of opportunities, like even as I go rewatch the film, just defensively, I'm only looking at it purely as a defensive player, not casting any judgment or anything like that. On there were too many times where he had the ball in his hand, like faced up outside the three point line where somebody wasn't underneath his feet. Meaning to create that shot, he's really got to move you like he's got to dance to get the space and he used to be great at it. But I'm going to challenge you to see if you can continue to do that or if you're at the point in your, in your recovery where you can do that and if people can get him in that space and then on the flip side of that, get him in a switch and we're going to test it like get him in a switch with your best player and then we're going to test your ability to move those feet over and over and over again.

[Logan Murdoch]

You know who's going to do that'll be interesting? Raja. You know who's going to do that on Thursday? Raja? The Oklahoma City Thunder. They have them at home on Thursday.

[Raja Bell]

Yeah, and maybe they scheme it up, maybe, maybe they scheme it up and they, they hit some zone or they can protect him and keep him out like pre switch so he doesn't have to get the switch. Or like, you know, there are ways that you can, you know, you've seen it forever. You get a, you get a defender who's not great and you're gonna find A way to keep him off of this switch. But, like, those things become very, very difficult for a guy at this stage in his rehab to handle. And that's all. And I'd be interested to see if people start targeting that in that way.

[Logan Murdoch]

I think that you're going to see that a lot over the next week. They have San Antonio tonight, and then they have okc. San Antonio has the guard, the forwards to be able to guard the Tatums of the world and attack on the, on the offensive end. And then we just saw. We just talked about the Thunder for the whole segment, right? Like, shake and get in the lane and play that pick a roll and kind of just. It just pick out Tatum, be like, hey, come here, let's dance, let's go. That's going to be the biggest test when we talk about what the Celtics are going to be is these Western Conference teams that are coming that they're about to play well.

[Raja Bell]

Yeah. Because if, look, I mean, I said all of that, but if he can meet, if people do that and he meets that challenge and he is the defender that he was, and if they make him score, he goes back to what he was doing and he's tap dancing and shooting those long threes like, then they can win the championship. And I am absolutely wrong.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah. Other thing that the Celtics need to worry about before we get to mailbag Nicole Vucevich out three to four weeks with the. With a fracture and his ring finger had surgery to stabilize that. So the big acquisition that we all said that foreshadowed the Tatum return is out for a month, which is not a great sign. Any last thoughts, Howard, on Tatum?

[Howard Beck]

No, just that I'm very curious to see how he progresses from here. Like whatever. Whatever percentage he's missing right now, we all threw out a different percentage that's not coming back this season. Right. If he gets there, it's going to be probably for next season. But still, he is shaking off rust. He is getting comfortable with his new body. And after the long layoff and everything else, I think there's more to come here. And, you know, I know Raja, and frankly, I will too, be holding my breath a little bit, hoping that this all goes as well as it looks like it's going to go. And, you know, I think so far so good. I'm just really intrigued to see how much more progress he can make over the last few weeks of the regular season and then into the playoffs. But it's one of the best stories of the season right now, and great

[Logan Murdoch]

for dog days like this.

[Raja Bell]

No doubt. And I want to be clear just in case it was misconstrued like because I I kind of lightweight if I'm being honest while I don't listen to the pods again, like I don't go back and do what you do. Logan, I was thinking about what I said and it could have come off in a way that that made it sound like I wasn't pulling for him or cheering for him or like hoping for the best. And that's not the case. I just, I'm always a little scared, you know what I mean? So I'm with, I'm with Howard. Like I, yeah, I will be holding my breath a little bit because I don't want anything to happen but like, if it works out great, like that's cool.

[Logan Murdoch]

That'd be awesome. That'd be one of the, I mean it already is one of the great stories of the of the regular season, but if he's able to parlay this in the playoffs, it'd be one of the great stories of the playoffs as well. Take a quick break and we're gonna get to Cliff for the mailbag.

[Howard Beck]

Shot clocks, big shots, upsets, aces. TGL playoffs are here. First, Atlanta Drive starts their repeat run against Los Angeles Golf Club. Then Rory's Boston Common golf and Tigers Jupiter Links face off in their playoff debuts. Who will advance? Keep up its playoffs tune in Tuesday, March 17th at 6:30pm and 9:00pm only on ESPN and the ESPN app Monster Energy.

[Raja Bell]

Everybody knows White Monster, Zero Ultra, that's

[Cliff]

the OG it kicked off this whole

[Raja Bell]

zero sugar energy drink thing, but Ultra is a whole lineup now. You've got Strawberry Dreams, Blue Hawaiian Sunrise and Vice Guava. And they all bring the Monster Energy punch. So if you've been living in the White can branch out. Ultra's got a flavor for every vibe and every single one is zero Sugar Tap the banner to learn more.

[Logan Murdoch]

And we are back. Cliff, what's going on, buddy?

[Cliff]

Popping real ones. Was popping. Was popping. Was popping. Roger was popping, man. Logan was popping. Howard was popping. All right, let's get to this first question. This is from. I hope I'm pronouncing this right. Kahitan Matuszewski. Hi, Bridgerton. Boys, I'm curious on your opinion on the latest Bridgerton season. It was different but still good in my opinion. Anyways, should the warriors currently punt the season and not bring back Steph Curry? Biggest what if this season with healthy Curry, Jimmy and Porzingis as without all of them, they can play beautiful basketball like, against the Nuggets recently. Best regards, Kahitin from Poland. I hope I'm saying that right.

[Logan Murdoch]

I got the walk from Poland. Bridgerton season was fine. It did. It barely did what it needed to do, but how many damn siblings. Siblings are, like. We don't have many Bridgerton siblings left, okay? And, like, just.

[Raja Bell]

There are plenty of Bridget. What do you mean? There's at least three or four Bridgerton children left.

[Logan Murdoch]

It's fair. It's fair. It's fair.

[Howard Beck]

I like that.

[Raja Bell]

I like the Bridgerton season, man. Maybe it was cool. I was just thirsty for some Bridgerton action.

[Logan Murdoch]

Like, I think that's what it was, but it was fine. It was a very fine episode. It was a very fine season. Right. I think if you know what it is. Every season is the same, right? Like, for all intents and purposes, every. It's. It's. It's. Oh, who's gonna get married? We gotta find this person to suit her. It's the unlikely one. What I. What I am intrigued about and, you know, if you didn't watch Bridgerton yet, Lady Whistledown is back in a different capacity, and I don't know who.

[Raja Bell]

Yeah, who's that?

[Logan Murdoch]

I think. I think I. I think I do know. It is. I think it's. I think it's the Queen's best friend who left Lady Dan. I think it's Lady Dandrud. That's my early God.

[Raja Bell]

That's okay. That's a fair.

[Logan Murdoch]

I think it's.

[Raja Bell]

I think it's.

[Logan Murdoch]

I think it was her voice.

[Raja Bell]

I think it is the. What's the. What's the house? What's. What are their family, like, the. The housekeeper of the other family. Where.

[Logan Murdoch]

Oh, yeah, yeah. The mean family. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Raja Bell]

I think it's her, but, like, I'm. Yeah, I like the season. I'm with you. I want to know who the new Lady Whistledown is.

[Logan Murdoch]

It's.

[Raja Bell]

Lady Dangerous has been, like, a staple of the show. Like, she's leaving. The Queen was all upset about that. Like, I'm upset about it, too.

[Logan Murdoch]

It'll never be.

[Raja Bell]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, you know, like, we're. I'm in. I mean, it was good season. Bridgerton boys were back for sure.

[Howard Beck]

It's funny as hell listening to you guys talk about this.

[Logan Murdoch]

Anyway, you know, you new here, man. You do here. This. We've been. Shout out Joan Bridgerton boys. Okay. Anyways, should the warriors currently putt the season and not bring back Steph Curry, I don't want that to happen. I Want Steph to come back. He's supposed to come back. It's very entertaining when he's in the lineup. The warriors have been playing really hard. G. Sancho's is been a revelation over the last few games. And then what was the other one? Biggest what if, if the season with healthy Jimmy and Porzingis, as with how they could play. They can play beautiful basketball. I would just want to see Steph Curry play basketball. That's really all it is. I don't want them to plant the season. Per our tanking conversation over the last few episodes. Roger, you have a different opinion, don't you? You want.

[Raja Bell]

No, I don't. I don't. Because tanking. What is tanking? I mean, if you're looking at it

[Logan Murdoch]

ain't got nothing left.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah, it wouldn't be tanking at this point. They're like, they're losing because they're losing. It's not really tanking. If you shut down Steph, could any could play, then that is a semi tanking move, right?

[Raja Bell]

Well, let's say you're semi tanking. That's what. Well put, Howard. But like, I'm not suggesting that they're tanking currently, but like, if you shut him down to say, hey, we're, we're not trying to win any more basketball games, then we, then, you know, then we could with this, with this lineup that we're currently rolling out there, I don't know that what you get out of that unless you were going to move it, like Howard said, in a way that would get you another piece that's ready to win a championship with Steph next year. I don't know how that helps the step of it all. So like you would then be doing what's, I guess maybe what's best for Golden State as a, as a, as an organization moving forward. But I, then you're turning, I think you're turning the page then on Steph personally because like getting one of those young guns that can really play with the ball in their hands and do all of that cool shit, like, you're not bringing him in there to do that with Steph on the team still playing at the level that he's playing. So yeah, I, I, I, I agree with you, Howard. I, I mean, not Howard, but Logan. And look, we take for granted often watching players like Steph LeBron and these greats play and how quickly their careers are. You're looking back at them saying, man, I remember when, anytime you get a chance to watch him hoop, enjoy that.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah, I mean, listen, I'm torn on this one because love watching Steph play, love watching the warriors be relevant would be, you know, it would be fun. Like, we don't think they're going to go real far this spring, I don't think. But, you know, if they could make it through the play in. But that's a game or maybe even two just to become the eighth seed. And then you're probably getting smoked by Oklahoma or San Antonio or whatever. Like, is that worth it? I mean, on some level, as a matter of just basketball purity, competitive purity, sure, that'd be great. Let just play, play all out, get them back, do what you can. And we get more Steph Curry in the spring. But there's definitely a case. I mean, they're 32 and 32. Right now. They're 13th in the tankathon standings on tankathon.com. if Steph doesn't come back, either because he can't or because they decide it's not worth it and you move up a few slots, I mean, you know, I'm not going to look up the odds right now, but hey, you know, they could leap up and, and get a top three, top four pick perhaps at that point. Then you're looking at, oh, man, we have somebody to build around for the, for the post Steph generation. And that was the, the, the trap they fell into before. Right. Like several years ago, as we've discussed, they could have traded the picks that became Wiseman, Moody, Kaminga, and they didn't. If they get a top pick at this point, top four or five, top ten even, they're. I think they're definitely not trading it to get more help for Steph now. Now they're so close to the end. They're really going to be locked into the idea to. No, no, no. We just got to get the guy who eventually becomes the new one to build around. So.

[Logan Murdoch]

Especially in this draft.

[Raja Bell]

But how far could they.

[Howard Beck]

It's a strong one.

[Raja Bell]

How far. How far could they fall, Howard? Because, like, they're tied with what, Charlotte right now, But Charlotte's like, winning games. The Bucks. No, I'm just talking about an overall league kind of like, record. Like, they're 30, trying to move up.

[Howard Beck]

So, like, if you're trying to get better odds. Yeah.

[Raja Bell]

You're probably not getting down to Memphis at 23 and 40. Like, you're not catching them. So, you know, you'd really be moving up two spots.

[Howard Beck]

Right. So where they are right now, they have a 4.8% chance of a top four pick. If they stayed at 13th from the bottom, they would have a 4.8% chance at a top four pick. If they move up a couple of slots, if they could, quote, unquote, pass in losses, Charlotte and Portland and you get to 11th now you have a 9.4% chance. 10 chance of a top four pick is not bad in the. Especially in this draft. Right? So like I could see the temptation.

[Logan Murdoch]

Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they can just pull it.

[Raja Bell]

And I just. Hey, bro, you know what? I would. Let me just say this again. Sorry, I. Because a little convincing there, Howard.

[Cliff]

Like, I don't.

[Raja Bell]

But golly, bro, if when Steph Curry is playing in your building.

[Logan Murdoch]

I know.

[Raja Bell]

Don't take it for granted, man. Yeah, don't do it. Like, don't do it. Go see him. Don't ask him to sit. Don't do it.

[Logan Murdoch]

Yeah, no, I. I agree. And also like the argument that Howard has is like just being in a lot of lottery. It's like, doesn't matter. I just want to be in the conversation because like, remember the Mavs just did the in 23, did the last season tanking and they got a Derek Lively out of the situation, you know, so like maybe you can get something. But in the words of friend of the show by Monique Jones, doesn't matter if you have draft picks. You got to have people that know how to make draft picks. And the warriors don't know if they have anybody to know how to make draft picks. If recent history is a guide. Me and Howard had that discussion, very lively discussion a couple days ago that should have been on the pod.

[Raja Bell]

Anyways, you guys are pod in again off air.

[Logan Murdoch]

No, no, no, no, no, no. Anyways, what's the next one, Cliff?

[Cliff]

The next one is from Will Plata. All Caps Dogs Dawgs watching the Knicks Clippers game. New York is getting beat by 15 in the third. But I can't help but think these boys some dogs All Caps competitiveness is something but this Knicks team has the most. We not losing this game out of most teams in the league in my opinion. Don't know if it's Brunson playing all wild heart, grabbing all boards, Anunoby with a strong emoji. Alvarado's nuts. Kat. Meh. My question, do the New York Knicks got the most dog in them? If, if not them, then who would y' all say is the most competitive team in the league right now? Appreciate you boys. Raja, hook them.

[Raja Bell]

Oh say less we stay on them. You already know. So I'm saying some spring practice video came out yesterday.

[Logan Murdoch]

I started doing it.

[Raja Bell]

Howard, let me. I would ask you, like, sidebar, because you have a daughter at school, is it not? I don't know how often your daughter communicates with you. Mine communicates with me less than I think thought he probably would, but I'm totally conflicted. While I want to, like, hear him and talk to him and, like, you know, all the time, there's a part of me that really appreciates that he does not need that from us.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah.

[Raja Bell]

And I find myself in this weird place, right? Like, it's.

[Howard Beck]

Dude, it's a thing. It is absolutely a thing. She's home right now. Actually, she's home for part of spring break. But no, that is. My wife and I have talked about this. It's. It's when they don't call and it's several days and don't even, like, text. It's like your natural instinct is like, one. I miss them. But also, like, is something wrong? Is everything okay? But it. It's. It's usually the opposite. Things are great. They're busy, they're having fun. They're with their friends. They've got hopefully doing their homework. Right. Like, so if you don't hear, it's okay. Like, just like, take a deep breath. It's cool. Send them a quick text to say, hey, man, checking in on you. Hope, hope, Hope day's going good. Whatever. Hit us when you get a chance. But like, yeah, like, try figuring out that right distance to put between you and the kid when they're in college. Like, it's a. It's a thing. It takes. It takes some adjustment. Give yourself time.

[Raja Bell]

Yeah, I'm okay. I. I wanted more than anything to hear that it wasn't just me that felt like that sometimes. Like, I'm good because I'm with you. I think he's living his new life. Like, that's dope. But it can be conflicting at times. The dog of it all. The next. That's a good question. But I don't. I don't. Yeah, I don't really know. Some of. Some of dog has to do with

[Logan Murdoch]

winning the game. I love how that he asked the question in the game after they lost.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Logan Murdoch]

Back to back.

[Howard Beck]

Timing not great.

[Logan Murdoch]

But.

[Howard Beck]

But he's right on the premise, I think.

[Raja Bell]

I mean, they play hard, right? Like, they play really hard. Yeah, they scrap some of that. It's weird, but some of it. I feel like you got a better chance of being labeled a dog of a team. If, if like, you know, you don't have the three best players. You know what I mean? Like, you're an underdog. An underdog has a better chance of being able to dog than, than the, Than go than Oklahoma City. Who are dogs.

[Logan Murdoch]

I was, you know what I was gonna say also, also San Antonio. San Antonio was a team that I always think of like, oh, these are gonna be a hard out, you know, like whether you win or lose, you're gonna feel it. Another team that I think was, was a. Had that dog in them was Houston last year. Right. Just a tough out. When I think about dog teams, I think about maybe they're not the best. And I think Will is kind of alluding to this. Maybe they're not the best in their conference, but they always give you a hard out because they play hard. I think Houston's one of those teams last year, not so much this year. I think San Antonio, like I said, is probably a great comparison of a team that has both a record and also a team you really just don't want to fucking face because they play hard and they're supremely skilled. I don't know any. I don't. Okay. See, of course, Boston, Detroit, Detroit. Yes, Detroit. Detroit is probably like the, the poster child of that this season. Right. But yeah, those are the teams that come to mind. What do you think, Howard?

[Howard Beck]

I mean, there's definitely an element here where the less high end talent or like high skill talent you have, the more likely you are if you were still able to like grid out and win games. Right. Like the Tibbs teams in Chicago you would say like, oh, those were like dog teams, right? Like Derek, rosettaj. Gibson, Joakim Noah, Lowell. Dang. Like they just get into you. They play their asses off. Yeah, they're not winning on like talent alone and shot making alone. They're winning off of like defense and grit and just never giving up like that.

[Raja Bell]

Memphis.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So, but, but baked into that is that we're saying, yeah, you don't have as much talent, but you play your asses off. Right? So like Phoenix this year comes to mind, right? Like the Suns have been that way, really gritty and not winning with a lot of high end. High end talent book has been out a bunch. Dylan Brooks has been out now for weeks. The Knicks, I thought, actually reached their peak dogness a couple post seasons ago. Like there was not last year against Indiana, but the previous year, second round against Indiana. Like no Julius Randall, no Gianna Nobi Brunson gets Banged up. And that's the thing. Like, Jalen Brunson embodies this for the Knicks, right? That dude turns his ankle 70 times a season, and every single time it looks like, oh, shit, that's. That's it, man. And then pops right back up or goes locker room, comes back with like, tied his shoes tighter or something and like, just starts scoring on you again. And Josh Hart's kind of built that way, but they lost. So a few years ago or two years ago when that, that playoff series against the Pacers, they were super tough. And that was because, like, hartenstein and Dante DiVincenzo and, you know, Hart, Brunson. But then they lost some of those guys, right? Like, I think they have lost a little bit of that edge when Hartenstein left in free agency and they traded Randall and DiVincenzo for Cat. Like, Cat is great, but Cat is not usually described as a dog. Works on multiple levels. So I think. I think the Knicks. The Knicks are that, as the. Our listener said, but I think a little less so than maybe two years ago. And I apologize for bad cat dog buns.

[Raja Bell]

No, don't.

[Logan Murdoch]

Don't apologize. That was fantastic.

[Raja Bell]

Especially what.

[Logan Murdoch]

Hey, didn't Cat have like a social media where it was like, cat's here, Cat's home the other day in la? Yeah, one of those. Yeah, it was a good. It was good. That was good. What's the next question, Cliff? This next one, is it a bag?

[Raja Bell]

Just how are you in a bag right there?

[Cliff]

This next one ain't really a question. It's more of a. This next one ain't really a question. It's more of a statement. This is from Wayne Chan. Great podcast is always on the JT return. However, why does all the discourse about Tato's return fail to bring up Nick? Dominique Wilkins staged one of the greatest injury comebacks in NBA history after his injury in January of 1992. Achilles tear. Returning at the age of 33 for the 9293 season to average 29.9 points per game. His eyes output since 1988, he played 71 games, defying expectations by remaining an elite score and being named an All Star. Immediate impact in his first game back in the 9293 season opener, he scored 30 points against the New York Knicks performance levels. He continued to play at an all star level, averaging 21 and a half points per game over the remainder of his career after the injury. What do you guys say about that one?

[Logan Murdoch]

I'll. I read this and I want to start this off first. I think what happened was just a lot more stars got injured with the Achilles injury that we kind of just kind of pushed away Nick. But I remember when Kobe got Achilles injury. Even when Durant got his achilles injury in 2019, the big focus was, oh, we're comparing this to what Nick did. And in terms of star power, what I just think has happened is like, you have this multitude of examples of people coming back after Nick, and that has kind of drowned out his impact. But I remember, like covering Golden State and every other story after Kevin got injured was, how does he compare to Nick? Is he gonna. Is he going to be as good as Nick was when he came back? I just think it's just time has passed and it honestly speaks to how many more Achilles injuries have happened since that. Since that occurred and the volume of which that is happening with not only Tatum, but also with Tyrese Halliburton and Kevin Durant. A lot of high profile Holly usage guys getting injured. It's no knock to Nick. I just think that as time has passed, the game has gotten a lot faster and the game has changed, which means a lot more Achilles injuries have been sustained and we've kind of.

[Raja Bell]

How old were you? How old were you in 92?

[Logan Murdoch]

Wasn't alive, sir.

[Raja Bell]

Right. So, I mean, that's the answer.

[Logan Murdoch]

Right? You know what? I really don't like the angism on this podcast. I don't like the ageism on this. I'm with Howard here. Yep.

[Raja Bell]

Nope. Just saying, like you would. The reason, you know, the reason a lot of people don't reference, especially, you know, Logan's generation, they have no idea about. They don't know about it. Like, I, you know, 92, I was like 15, 16. Like, I remember that. But if I'm being honest, like, my encyclopedia of basketball hadn't really been opened yet. I was just kind of, you know, a fan and watching people's games. I don't know exactly what that comeback looked like for Dominique. I do remember, if memory serves me correctly, like, you know, we didn't have access to every game. But I don't think Meek ever got that. That dunk competition full bounce back. I think his game changed a little bit from that back then. Like, I could be wrong though. Again, this was like 92, but like the run on Achilles injuries recently and the fact that it was in 92 were the only reasons that. That he doesn't, you know, that he's not brought up in that conversation as much as he probably should be.

[Howard Beck]

I think the other Part of it too is just that Nick did it. He was already in his 30s, right? So he comes back and he had two really strong seasons that like these are his age 33 and age 34 seasons, more or less. He's all NBA second team his first year, first full season back from the Achilles and all third team the next season. So that's fantastic. But he's in his, he's in his early to mid-30s. Then it drops off like you look at his stats and his advanced stats, everything drops off quite a bit and pretty precipitously after that. So he's with the Hawks for like another year and a half. Then he goes to Boston, he goes to Greece, he comes back, then he goes to Italy. He finished his career, you know, playing in Orlando sparingly. But like it's just, I think it's like a lot of things like the, the end was less memorable. So I think it overshadows a little bit of like, oh, initially he actually had a pretty good return from the Achilles, but it only lasted two seasons. And I think that's the thing. I think when we talk about what we want to see or hope to see from superstars coming back from an Achilles is can they be themselves again? And he was for a time. But some combination of the Achilles and his age made that very short lived. And in Tatum's case, he's much younger. Durant's case, around the same age. Ish, maybe a little bit younger than Dominique was. But like Durant has the benefit of modern medicine and modern training and sports science and everything. Right. So like Nick is an important reference point to the readers or to the reader, the listener's question. But I think yeah, there's a lot of reasons why we don't necessarily reference it as like a huge success story time.

[Logan Murdoch]

You know, we need to read some books. You do some historic rabbit holes.

[Howard Beck]

I'm not going to say how old I was when Nick came back.

[Logan Murdoch]

How old were you?

[Howard Beck]

In my 20s maybe.

[Logan Murdoch]

Probably. Yeah. That's okay, man. You know, we have all ages around the spectrum on this pod and that's what makes real ones great. And another real ones episode in the can. You can get great content like this if you just tap into realm's [e-mail] realonesmailbag gmail.com real onesmailbag. Gmail.com had really fun time with you guys, man. Shout out to Raja Bell, shout out to Howard Beck, shout out to Cliff. Shout out to Victoria on the video. We will see you guys on Friday. All this shits. Bye. Oh, you weren't ready for that. You weren't ready for that. Hey, you weren't ready for that. Must be 21 years and older and present in select states for Kansas and affiliation with Kansas Star Casino, or 18 and older and present in DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem called 1-800- gambler or 1-800-myreset. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org Chattinconenetic or visit mdgamblinghelp.org In Maryland, hope is here. Visit gamblinghelpma.org or call 1-800-327-5050. For 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-HOPE NY or text HOPE NY in New York. For Louisiana, call 1-877-770-7867.