Six Big Questions as the NBA Season Enters 2026 | Group Chat

Summary

The Ringer NBA Show: "Six Big Questions as the NBA Season Enters 2026" | Group Chat

Date: January 5, 2026
Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, J. Kyle Mann

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Episode Overview

The Ringer NBA Show crew gathers for the first Group Chat of the new year, aiming to reset the table and address six big questions shaping the second half of the 2025-26 NBA season. The hosts—Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, and J. Kyle Mann—dig into contender rankings, trade rumors, star returns from injury, the rookie class, and who's actually worth watching on League Pass right now. With their trademark blend of irreverence, hoops intelligence, and banter, they break down which storylines matter most and what could shape up as the regular season’s defining outcomes.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The State of NBA Title Contenders Without Nikola Jokic

[06:52–20:20]

• The show opens by examining how Nikola Jokic's hyperextended knee (out at least four weeks, likely more) reshuffles the landscape for Western Conference title contenders, especially in relation to the Oklahoma City Thunder’s apparent supremacy.
• Rob Mahoney still sees the Nuggets as the top challenger, citing other "contenders" lack of compelling recent play: “The Knicks ... have lost three straight and five of nine... the Spurs are very good and really interesting. I'm just not quite there yet with them.” (07:52)
• There’s spirited debate around the "mystery box" Boston Celtics, currently buoyed by Jaylen Brown, with Jayson Tatum’s return looming. Is the pecking order about to become muddled, Brown ascendant, or will muscle memory prevail once Tatum’s back? (08:45–13:12)
• The possibility of the Nuggets falling to a lower seed due to Jokic’s absence is debated—will playoff matchups or injuries ultimately define the West’s winner?
• J. Kyle Mann: “It’s never quite been in full comfortable stasis for a long period of time for Denver ... part of me, when Jokic went down, was like my guy needed a break. But a hyperextended knee break—I’m gonna guess no, not a net positive for the Denver Nuggets.” (15:47–16:48)

Notable Quote

“If not the Nuggets, then who? ... They're all kind of a gobbledygook... there really isn't a clear number two contender if Jokic is going to be hobbled through the rest of the regular season.”
—Justin Verrier [18:03]

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2. Are the Thunder a True Juggernaut or Beneficiary of Parity?

[18:48–22:37]

• The Thunder stand alone atop the league, but do they have the makings of a historic team, or are they just best in an “era of parody?”
• Discussion centers on their dominance versus the East, but the concern remains whether they’re a regular-season juggernaut or actually matchup-dependent.
• J. Kyle Mann introduces a revealing defensive stat: “Isolation [for OKC] when Wimbanyama’s on the floor is 0.75... the matchup with the Spurs could get really interesting.” (20:20)
• The drama of “who can topple the empire” is likened to the ‘00s Yankees or Warriors dynasty—suggesting narrative undertones shape how we perceive a juggernaut.

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3. Pistons’ Opportunity in an Eastern Conference Power Vacuum

[22:10–23:27]

• With the East unsettled, could the Pistons seize an unusually clear path to the Finals?
• Justin Verrier: “If I dominate the East, I have a clear road to the finals, then all bets are off…there's a real opportunity there, I would say.” (22:37)
• Rob Mahoney notes the Pistons “really could use just like one more real piece of firepower,” with smart defenses targeting their weak shooters and putting “a lot of pressure on Cade [Cunningham].” (22:52)

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4. What’s Trey Young’s Market? And What is the Real Value of Star Trade Candidates?

[23:27–38:16]

• Trey Young surfaces as a dominant name headed into the trade deadline, yet the hosts struggle to find a logical fit among league rosters.
• Rob Mahoney runs through bottom-10 offenses and finds most already equipped (or uninterested), with possible exceptions like Portland, Chicago, or Sacramento, but none fit smoothly: “It’s so different from what they have that I... hesitate to think they would actually do it.” (26:22)
• J. Kyle Mann: “No one’s gonna invest in him to that extent... the tradeoffs are so tough. Like, we were saying, you’re basically asking Trey to come in and do things that sort of stress the trade off of having him on your team.” (28:51)
• The conversation pivots: Is having “dead money” tied up in a star who can’t stay on the floor (like Anthony Davis) actually now toxic due to the stricter cap rules? Teams may be rewarded for eschewing big injury bets.
• The trio sorts their personal preference for “problem point guards” (Trey, Ja, Lamelo): with Lamelo retaining highest upside, then Trey, then Ja.
• They agree the Hawks are “painfully” stuck: financial flexibility may matter less than roster flexibility now, and that’s a tough jam with no eager trade partners.

Notable Quote

“Having $50 million in dead money is just so painful... that's to say nothing about what it does to team chemistry... The teams that prioritize guys who can stay healthy and aren't investing in those kinds of deals... they're going to be richly rewarded.”
—Rob Mahoney [36:14]

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5. Giannis Antetokounmpo Trade Watch: Real or Manufactured Drama?

[40:02–44:45]

• The crew debates whether the Giannis trade saga is even worth discussing until something real happens.
• Rob Mahoney: “Giannis has pushed for a trade several times now. This is a real thing that has happened. This is not a media invention. This is not just like smoke.”
• Ultimately, the hosts agree nothing’s happening imminently, with movement unlikely before the summer.
• J. Kyle Mann expresses less annoyance than Justin at the perpetual Giannis rumors: “I don't find myself getting as annoyed by it as you. I guess maybe you're just kind of on the wire in a way that's affecting you in a way it's not affecting me, you know?” (43:45)
• Gentle digression on trade machine culture and the allure (or disgust) of transaction speculation.

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6. Clippers & Lakers: Is There Still Time for Redemption?

Clippers: [45:30–55:19]

• The Clippers have caught fire, with Kawhi Leonard surging (“37, 8, and 4 with three steals... absolute, just meteoric shit.” – Verrier, 47:42) but face logistical and reputational challenges (esp. Kawhi contract drama and Chris Paul’s “house arrest” roster situation).
• Rob Mahoney: “I believe in [the Clippers] relative to these teams they’re bumping up against. I just don’t know it’s going to go anywhere at this point... even if they continue to go this well... it might still be too little, too late.” (49:59)
• J. Kyle Mann: “This team is like the Garnett Pierce Nets... These dudes are old. Where are we going?”

Notable Moment

“I'm not talking about momentum into the net worth. I'm talking about if you took their temperature three weeks ago, we would be putting this team under the ground. And now... we're willing to entertain that they might be on some life support.”
—Rob Mahoney [54:46]

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Lakers: [56:24–66:44]

• The Lakers—currently 5th in the West—are dissected for persistent defensive issues and a muddled offense as Luka Doncic and LeBron James awkwardly share creation duties, with coach JJ Redick apparently unable to harmonize the egos or resolve lineup flaws.
• Rob Mahoney: “...Even in the best case scenario if they got their defense back in set would still get torched by a lot of opponents...There’s a lot of stuff happening at once. I don't see any reason to feel good about any of it in particular.”
• The group muses on LeBron’s future, All-Star prospects, and legacy, noting his low All-Star vote tally and forecasting the “appreciate LeBron more” phase as his career's end nears.

Notable Quote

“The Lakers are a perfect League Pass team. If they weren't on national TV so much, this is the problem.”
—Justin Verrier [88:20]

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7. Rookie of the Year Race: Is It Actually a Three-Man Show?

[67:12–76:34]

• The hosts agree Cooper Flagg and Keaton Kannipple stand as favorites, with VJ Edgecombe a third but trailing contender. VJ’s surge gets some love, but Flagg’s defensive impact and “winning player” energy hold center stage.

• “It’s probably going to be [two], unless VJ just takes off and lights the world on fire... In terms of the volume, [Kannipple] hit 100 made threes before anybody in history. Efficiency is probably what would tip me if we had to vote today..."
  —J. Kyle Mann & Justin Verrier [68:59–76:03]

• There’s delight in how all three approach challenges fearlessly. Flagg’s experience on a competitive team could fuel his “Heisman moment” type hype.

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8. League Pass Re-Rankings: Who’s Actually Watchable Right Now?

[78:00–91:28]

Consensus Top Tier

• Spurs: Unanimous or near-unanimous #1, with Wembanyama always a draw—“Is there a single reason on earth it should not be the San Antonio Spurs?” (Rob, 78:24)
• Celtics: "Underdog" chemistry with Jaylen Brown’s aggression thrills. “We're 35ish games into the season and I still go into every Celtics game... thinking: how are they doing this?” (Rob, 79:14)
• Honorable Mentions: Rockets (intriguing ‘makes-no-sense’ factor), Pistons (organic leap, young guns), Nets (Brooklyn’s unpredictability; “hipster pick”), Hornets, Lakers (nostalgia, if not always excellence), Suns (for the Jamari Bouyea experience), Kawhi’s Clippers (“I can't miss this”).

Notable Quote

“League Pass philosophy varies from person to person. If you like the calamity of bad shooting, that's just as valid as saying this is a good team.”
—J. Kyle Mann [85:42]

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Notable Moments & Quotes (with Timestamps)

• On the Celtics / Tatum-Brown dynamic:
  “Is Tatum going to try to come back in and do Tatum things, whereas Brown asserted himself as one of the best players in the league?”
  —Justin Verrier [11:20]

• On the next guard trade market:
  “Teams practically all have their guy or they have their guy in waiting.”
  —Justin Verrier [27:20]

• On lamenting superstar injuries & cap changes:
  “It's especially punitive now more than ever... combination of new cap rules... $50 million in dead money is just so painful for a lot of teams.”
  —Rob Mahoney [36:14]

• On Clippers’ brief resurgence:
  “Kawhi just has been an absolute killer... meteoric shit.”
  —Justin Verrier [47:42]

• On aging rosters / nostalgia:
  “We’re three unks on this pod.”
  —Rob Mahoney [65:38]

• On the Rookie Wall:
  “Flag even in the midst of a poor just like scoring performance just has that real like plays the right way—always looking for somebody else.”
  —Justin Verrier [73:12]

• Lighthearted closing banter:

  • “Can you embrace a wall?” (Rob, 76:23)
  • “He looks like you plug in like a tiny code for like a golden eye sort of game.” —Justin Verrier on Andrew Nembhard [77:48]

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Structural Highlights by Timestamp

• Title Contenders/West Parity: 06:52–22:37
• East Opportunity & Trey Young trade market: 22:10–38:16
• Giannis trade saga: 40:02–44:45
• Clippers & Lakers states: 45:30–66:44
• Rookie race: 67:12–76:34
• League Pass re-rankings: 78:00–91:28

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Final Thoughts

This Group Chat delivers a full-court NBA state-of-affairs: the hosts methodically detail power dynamics out West, dissect the oddities of the East, and bring real skepticism to the trade value of embattled stars like Trey Young. Throughout, they celebrate the unpredictable joys of league pass viewing and the emergence of an exciting rookie class, all with their signature blend of sharp wit and depth.

Whether the Thunder are truly inevitable, the Celtics have another gear, or anyone will risk a king’s ransom for a toxic asset, the Group Chat crew makes a convincing case that, in the NBA circa 2026, uncertainty is the only certainty.

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[Podcast summary by AI, covering The Ringer NBA Show: Group Chat, January 5, 2026]

Transcript

[Rob Mahoney]

Foreign.

[Justin Varier]

Hello and welcome to Group Chat. I am Justin Varier, and joining me, Rob Mahoney. J. Kyle Man, New year. Same me. Unfortunately for me. I don't know if you guys are resolute already, but, Rob, you don't really strike me as the type of guy who's, like, planning out his goals for the season. How many podcasts you want to do over a course of a month?

[Rob Mahoney]

It's too many, is the answer. Generally speaking. Here's my. My take on resolutions. I'm naval gazing all the time. I am introspecting constantly. Why do we wait for the start of the year to do it when you could just be on my level operating at a constant pace of, like, self reflection and analysis and ultimately crippling anxiety as a result?

[J. Kyle Man]

I mean, you could argue that a. That a brooding self, you know, introspective person would be drawn to our job in the first place. Especially with the job with, like, the art labor. If you go. I mean, one of our company meetings is like. It was so hilarious. Like, before, before I joined Ringer, it was like I. I was like, yeah, I know a lot about movies. I know a lot about music. I like. You go down the line and you kind of get to know some of the people we work with, and it's like, yeah, I don't really know anything about music. I thought I did, but. No, I mean, I. I agree with you, Rob. I think it's. I don't. I don't really wait for January 1st either. I'm kind of. I mean, I'm also that way with gifts. I'm impossible to buy for because I'm always just, you know, catering to myself constantly.

[Rob Mahoney]

So, you know, the man who has everything.

[J. Kyle Man]

Yeah, right.

[Justin Varier]

The grind never stops. So for us, you don't need resolutions because the goals are right in front of you day in and day out.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's very true. But at the same time, we make a whole podcast for Festivus and the airing of grievances all year, Justin. And you're constantly airing grievances. So maybe I do acknowledge that there is a time and place to sit and honor, whether it's resolutions or grievances or whatever, to make the space for it, I think is a worthy endeavor.

[Justin Varier]

Well, speaking of grievances, I actually wrote down in the long tracker of grievances that I keep on a yearly basis, one that I was going to pocket for next year. But since we're on this topic, let's do a lot of people going to the gym all of a Sudden things are a little bit more crowded as they typically are at the start of the year. I just want to give a real PSA out there. If you smell like, you got to do something about that. All right. Like, I was on the treadmill the other day and, like, I had to move because a guy was so smart, smelly, that I can almost like it was affecting my breathing. Like. So I'm. I'm glad that you're new to the gym. If you have a gland problem, I understand. But if this is something you can fix, you gotta fix the smell.

[Rob Mahoney]

So just a general B.O. warning.

[Justin Varier]

Yes.

[J. Kyle Man]

So Rusillo leaves. Are you just seeing an opening here for you to move into to PSA for the. For the gym guy? Is that your thing? I didn't see this coming.

[Justin Varier]

I wouldn't say I'd go that far. But the very least, I need to do it, if only to regulate my. My moods. So I have become a consist gym presence. I know you guys can't tell because I have all this winter wear on top, but, like, we start doing summer pods, the tanks are coming out, baby. The unveiling tanks, am I right?

[Rob Mahoney]

The unveiling of bulk barrier. I look. It's going to be our most popular video podcast yet. This is. This is why we make the move to Netflix to get that in glorious 4K.

[Justin Varier]

Get the definition. The shadows in the delts.

[J. Kyle Man]

You're going. Are you getting, like, you're on the. Because I read an article that lifting is in and cardio is out and that, you know, Planet Fitness was like, you know, we used to be a cardio place. Are you trying to get. Are you trying to be like a greyhound, Justin? Are you. What's. What's going on with it with the regiment over there?

[Justin Varier]

Incline walking is. Is the new thing. And I'm very much in on this because for whatever scientific reasons that some guy that you just found in the algorithm who probably has no idea what they're doing, are actually just aping someone who. That they heard say, you read that tweet.

[J. Kyle Man]

Everybody read that tweet.

[Justin Varier]

Yes, I have started to do that, but for what? I guess it helps, like, keep on the muscle, but not burn away the stuff that you need. Whatever. I'm doing it.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes. Can I ask you a question, though.

[J. Kyle Man]

Next time we're together? Yeah. To make sure.

[Rob Mahoney]

Jv, I have a question, though, about. About your overall grievance. If there was going to be a place to smell, wouldn't the gym be the place to do it?

[Justin Varier]

I'm okay with Smelling. But there's almost like there's a threshold there. I feel like the technology they're using at Clippers games to determine whether or not you paid for like a pretzel or whatever. Yeah, I want that. But for smells at a gym, I'm giving this idea away for free for anybody. If you could get a smell detector that if we get to like, like a certain level of smelliness. Yes. You cannot go.

[Rob Mahoney]

And you're going to catch these people and send them to black site prisons or what's happening. Exactly.

[Justin Varier]

Yeah. I'm going to be the dog, the bounty hunter of smells.

[J. Kyle Man]

Follow your nose section. I mean, I can see that you're all about sort of separating patrons. So at the movie theater we have the loud patrons and we could have the. If you're not. If you're one of those anti aluminum. I know you hear that a lot. It's like I'm not wearing it because the aluminum or I'm allergic or whatever it is. You can. We can separate them over here. Right. And that's kind of your.

[Justin Varier]

You'll ever heard about that.

[J. Kyle Man]

I swear to God.

[Rob Mahoney]

For like no idea what you're talking about.

[J. Kyle Man]

And I knew was like, oh, there's aluminum. Can't do the aluminum. So. But here's the up on it.

[Justin Varier]

But with the smoking section, which is where this idea originates from. Like you're just by the smoking section. So if you're in a smelly section, unless you're cordoned off with like just a glass case of emotion, basically, like you're still going to smell. And we're going to smell bad.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, we'd need some technology. So I guess if you're interested in piloting Justin's idea and really investing in whatever would be required to execute it, get at us.

[Justin Varier]

This counts as intellectual property, right? That I spoke it into existence. Oh yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah. This is copyrighted now.

[Justin Varier]

Okay, great start.

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[Justin Varier]

New year of pods, we're doing six questions here to reset ourselves kind of get into the bigger storylines that are going to be we're going to be kind of tracking as we go into 2026 at least the season. I have six down here. Honestly I fudged a couple because they were like two and one or one is a non one. So at home you could track it and send it to me later and let us know how many we actually got to. But number one I think is is the big one that we're all kind of pondering as we wait to hear when Nikola Jokic will be back on an NBA court. At least four weeks was the diagnosis that we got from the hyperextended knee that would be about 15 games but it was a whole reevaluated after four weeks so I imagine this will take even longer. They did get Brown and Gordon back on the court today, so that's something. But my question for you Rob, is in light of the injury, does this shake up the challenger rankings you have for the title repeat bid for the Oklahoma City Thunder?

[Rob Mahoney]

I still think the Nuggets are the best challenger and some of it is like as simple as if any of the other contenders and would be contenders in the ranks here. We're making like a super compelling case at the moment. I might feel more swayed. The Rockets have lost to a bunch of bad teams lately and also a bunch of close games that make me a little nervous about some of their late game execution stuff. The Knicks, who feel like the best team in the east almost by default, have lost three straight and five of nine not exactly jumping at the chance to put them at the top of this this pecking order here. And I guess the spurs are very good and really interesting. I'm just not quite there yet with them. And so is there another team that we should be considering here other than those?

[J. Kyle Man]

Oh boy, don't say it. Are you going to say it?

[Justin Varier]

I think the question is at what point do you start to think really hard about the Jason Tatum is back. Celtics.

[Rob Mahoney]

Because you watch the current model per se, but the Jason Tatum infused version of the current model.

[Justin Varier]

That's right. But the current model is already about on par with the Knicks. I mean, I don't know if you guys saw the game against the Clippers the other night, but Jaylen Brown looks like one of the five to 10 best players in the league right now.

[J. Kyle Man]

Dude, the Celtics just. We talked about this with the young core thing, and it kind of goes top to bottom organizationally with them. It's like the ownership, the front office, the coach, the team, the stars, everything when you watch that team. And I think those things are very evident whenever things are out of whack and you. That with like, I don't know. I always think of college teams, college programs that have really, really strong culture and, and just they have an identity that sort of transcends classes coming and going. I don't know if you guys in high school had. There were schools that we played that had the same fucking plays, and we would play them, and they were everyone from the freshman team to the JV team to the varsity team, they all knew them, they executed them. It was just like this hive mind thing that, that the best organizations have. And when you watch the Celtics, it's just, it's almost. It's like liquid courage that they all just kind of believe in. There's. There's a belief that even though the talent out there may not. May be huge in terms of discrepancy, I'm watching Luca Garza run up and down and just play his ass off. I'm watching, you know, the, the bothersome brothers get out there and tear you. Ugo checking hard in full court was a delight. It was a disaster, but it was a delight. I just think that when you watch them, there's a lot of that powering them. But that, like you said with, with Jaylen Brown, with, with the guys that they have out there that are going. I mean, they also have a lot of talent. I think that can't be overlooked too. It's not like this is some scrappy upstart. This is a team with, with talent and with a lot of culture, accountability, and it's working.

[Rob Mahoney]

The Tatum part is just the elephant in the room with all that. Not that he would come in and make the team worse, but, like, how much better could he elevate them? Like, could he get them past the Knicks? Could he get them past the Pistons? Can he put the Celtics into a different class relative to these other eastern Conference contenders. I. I just don't. I mean, I have no idea how to even begin to ponder that, given how little we know about what he would look like on the court. And so they feel like more of a mystery box to me as far as like a Tatum version of the team than they do a definitive challenger to it, to like as proven an entity as we have in the Thunder. And I feel like that Oklahoma City has been taking some shots and some strays lately because of the losses to the spurs, and they've just kind of swooned a tiny bit. They're still easily the favorites. Like, they still have proven that with the Bullet. So until I see otherwise from anyone who feels all that compelling, I'm just going to assume that the Thunder are going to at least be formidable in the end, if not there as champions in the end.

[Justin Varier]

Yeah. With the Celtics, I also worry about the pecking order becoming a little muddled because Brown, as we've seen, is a very prideful guy, to the point where he was upset on his twitch stream about not getting Player of the Month. I didn't know that players even like recognized that as an accomplishment, let alone actually pine for it and openly kind of disagreed with it. But is Tatum going to try to come back in and do Tatum things, whereas Brown asserted himself as one of the best players in the league? It's the type of tenuous sort of thing that has worked out in the past and perhaps they just fall back into the muscle memory of what was before. But I could also see Brown being like, no, this is kind of my year. Let, like, let me go and do this. I also don't think there's precedent for this. Kyle. Like, the only thing that I came up with was MJ coming back from baseball because he was also in the middle of March, which is where you hear Tatum might be coming back to. And they couldn't even do it like they went out in the second round.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Justin Varier]

Now there isn't a Shaq Magic team waiting in the east. So that would be the case for the Celtics. But like, if, if MJ plus Scotty and the Dynastic Bulls can't do this, I do think that's a interesting data point at the very least in projecting this out.

[J. Kyle Man]

Well, it's interesting speculating about Tatum and whether or not he's willing to do non Tatum things because we've seen him in other settings like how. How willing is he going to be and how, you know, how well will his game interface into being more deferring it could, it could stir up some of the, some of the dynamic, the, the questions that we had about the Brown and Tatum dynamic in the past. Something that I think is also interesting about the Celtics is we're thinking of them as. It would be easy to fall into the trap of thinking of them as a continuation of, of the title run a few years ago, when really there are some pieces that are. Are gone. I mean, significant pieces that aren't here anymore from that, you know, with Horford and then with, with Drew and then with Porzingis. And it's kind of makes you wonder, will the guys who have moved up in this, you know, next man up thing that I was praising so readily a minute ago, are they going to. In the playoff setting to counter punch? That's the thing about the Nuggets. I think that they have over the Rockets, that they have over the spurs, that you know that if you, once you've seen the counter punch, once you, once, you know, like, we know you're going to do this, we're going to dodge and we're going to throw this. Like a lot of those teams haven't figured that out. And have the, has this iteration of the Celtics figured that out? Is it going to just really be that easy? Are they going to be ready for it or is. I don't know. It may not be as implied as we think.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, the differentiator is usually how long have the players on your team been in the roles that they're playing? And do they have the experience, not just like going on a long playoff run, but Jalen Brown being the guy on a team where Jayson Tatum is easing his way back in. That would be a new experience for him, going all the way to the NBA Finals doing something like that. And with it comes a different kind of processing, a different kind of problem solving. And I'm with you, Kyle. I think Denver has all that stuff a little more locked in, even despite some of the big looming injury questions about when Jokic comes back, when Valentunas comes back, which is just a disaster in terms of their center rotation at present. But JV mentioned getting Aaron Gordon back in the lineup, getting Christian Brown in the lineup. It may not save you against the Brooklyn Nets, it turns out, but I would hope that over the next couple of weeks it'll. It'll do some good for the Nuggets, just stabilizing them, keeping their heads above water, getting them to the point where if they can get into the playoffs in the top six, I just think ultimately they're going to be fine against most teams.

[Justin Varier]

Yeah. I guess the question ultimately becomes how much do you think matchups will dictate overall success in the Western Conference? And I do worry about the Nuggets. If they get down past the four seed, which is very much in play at this point, like, are they then fighting for their lives in the first round? How much does that dictate, like, who they're going up against in the second? Like, if they're in the same situation they were last year without home court advantage against the Thunder, I think that's going to be a tough one to dig themselves out of. I also think this is where like injury timelines start to matter because as you're seeing with some of, of these guys coming back, Gordon first and foremost, it's not just the like reevaluation date, which is now the new way injuries get reported, it's the reporting after that. And oftentimes two times after that is when we actually get the guy back. But then they have to play through the limited minutes, the no back to backs and all that other stuff. And so we may be looking at Jokic as a month out. Based on what we know now, it could be two months before we get full blown Jokic. And at that point, Kyle, like, where are they in the standings one and where are they just overall? Because we didn't even mention Cam Johnson's not out there too. So this is like five guys that they all count on for, for everything that they're doing.

[J. Kyle Man]

Yeah, it's, it's a continuation of just, it's. It's never quite been in full comfortable stasis for a long period of time. You know, you go and get Bruce Brown back and you're trying to chase some of that, that level that they got to during the first title, the only title run for this group. I was going to say, man, one of the. I don't. Did not want Jokic to get hurt. I just want to, to be on the record. I, I am defiant in that stance. I just. When he went down, part of me in the back of my mind was like my guy needed a break. And I was kind of like, I don't know. I could. If he's ready to go, is there the seating, I guess would be the thing that would start to sort of prod you in the butt with the pitchfork of like, we gotta, we can't fall into the abyss here and get ourselves in a bad situation. But I also was like, man, it Yic just. But he, he always Looks burdened on the court. Right. Jokic always just has, like I always say, the Nelson, Nelson, the Simpsons playing football thing of just like, oh, my God, I'm just carrying the way of the world. I don't know, maybe. Could a break be big for him? I guess is my point.

[Rob Mahoney]

Maybe. But a hyperextended knee break, I'm gonna. I'm gonna venture to guess. No, not a net positive for the Denver Nuggets in terms of their season.

[J. Kyle Man]

Those usually heal all the way back, though. I mean. And how bad was Giannis's in the finals, if you. Or was it the Hawks when he hyper extended that knee and played through it? Good Lord.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, it's insane that anyone can play on a knee hyperextension, because it is the kind of injury that you don't even think about it in the way that you think about, like, a hamstring pull or a calf pull, where it's just like, you're tentatively waiting for it to get exacerbated. It's just sort of like, painful and a little scary every time you take a jump or skip step in a totally different way.

[Justin Varier]

Have you played with one? Is that why you know this so intimately?

[Rob Mahoney]

Literally? Who has it in terms of. If you've played pickup basketball before, you've hyperextended a knee before.

[Justin Varier]

Okay, I'm going to the grocery store, and that's really my only activities here.

[Rob Mahoney]

Playing. Going to the gym, apparently. Absolutely. Crushing that incline walk. You've never hyperextended a knee doing that thing?

[Justin Varier]

No. That's why the walking is so important.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's true.

[Justin Varier]

Stay off the injury list.

[Rob Mahoney]

You're preparing better than I am. I'm just jumping out there, trying to. Trying to run up and down the court a little bit and ultimately getting injured.

[J. Kyle Man]

We're going to die on the battlefield. I think Rob and I have agreed on that a few different times. Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

We're going zero doubt on the shield. It's the only way to end.

[Justin Varier]

You guys could be heroes just for one day.

[Rob Mahoney]

I hope so.

[Justin Varier]

I think you identified the essential question, though, where it's like, if not the Nuggets, then who? If we're saying that OKC is the team that everybody's chasing, because I could find flaws with all these teams. I found myself, despite all recent results, thinking very hard about the Timberwolves. If they could just figure out the. Well, I guess it's now the Bones Highland spots, no longer the Rob Dillingham spot, but they've had some pretty atrocious losses since the, the Christmas Day slobber knocker, like, but if they could just get right, like, they're a team that nobody wants to face. And we've seen that two years in a row and so. But I think, like, it's all kind of like a gobbledygook where it's like the Rockets in some situations, the Wolves in some situations. I don't know. Like, there really isn't a clear, like, number two contender if Jokic is going to be hobbled through the rest of the regular season.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, let me ask you this. Do we prefer that, you know, we're staring at a bunch of regular season ahead of us? Is it fun to not have a definitive answer to this question right now?

[Justin Varier]

I think it would be different if the Thunder weren't so far and away the number one. If everybody was in this mix, then, yes, it would be a little bit more like college where there's like a couple number one seeds and then anything can happen, baby. But right now it's just everybody chasing the Thunder, and I would want, like, all of the combatants to be at their best in order to see if they can give them a run. Because we also have the question of whether or not the Thunder, like, how good are the Thunder, right? Are they this regular season juggernaut, Is it about matchups or are they just like, historically good? I think that's going to be lingering over them Even though this 70 game chase has kind of fallen to the wayside.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think it, it would make this run ultimately a lot more interesting if there is one of these teams that really rises emphatically from the crop that, that really separates themselves from the rest of these other contenders. I just don't know that this is the kind of season where we're going to get it. We're obviously in a parody era to begin with. There's so many injuries going around the league right now. There's so much that's unresolved that's unknown that we're trying to, like, pencil in Jason Tatums and Nicole Jokic just here and there, and it's just impossible to know. And yeah. Meanwhile, the Thunder, even while they take a couple losses, are still the best thing going in basketball. Still have yet to lose to an Eastern Conference team. It's just hard to imagine them really getting tested by anything but a really great contender at absolute full strength. And that may be honestly just like more of a dice roll than we're even willing to admit or the chance.

[J. Kyle Man]

That they end up playing the Spurs. Right. I mean, We. I actually pulled some a, A stat here that I thought was pretty interesting on Synergy. They added a thing where you could look at. Where you could look at play type efficiencies with defensive players on the floor and pretty interesting for okc. I just wanted to throw this to you all. Isolation normally for OKC is very productive. 1.153. Isolation for them when Wimy's on the floor is 0.75. Similar in pick and roll. 0.976 with Wimy on the floor. 690. If you just kind of. I think that kind of going back to the matchup thing that we were talking about before. I don't know. It's. It's kind of what I was saying. You know, San Antonio needs to prove the counterpunch thing that I was describing with the other teams that Denver has already kind of said, all right, we kind of know what the moves are. If San Antonio can get into a series with them, I definitely think it could get interesting. And I honestly feel like we're getting a little bit of you, you. You kind of get into this. Baseball was really, really interesting when the Yankees were the Empire. Right. I remember that was the peak of my baseball watching was I. Who could take them down and that drama was really fun. Or. Or the. The warriors in their dynastic run with Curry and things like that. I kind of feel like we're getting a little bit of. We're not totally sure because OKC and we may be a. Overreacting to them, you know, tasting their own blood a little bit. It's a little bit of both. We're not totally sure, but OKC is really good. I don't know if we would prefer OKC to be this. Just like zero doubt. I don't know. But I feel like we're getting a little bit of both narratively.

[Justin Varier]

Yeah. I think we're just used to teams being a little bit cleaner in terms of how dominant they are. Or perhaps it's just like how we think back on these teams.

[Rob Mahoney]

Like, I think it's more that. To be honest, he never actually had.

[Justin Varier]

A challenge where it's just like. Well, I don't know, like, Roy Hibbert almost like stuffed them out pretty much.

[J. Kyle Man]

The Bulls gave him some shit during that run too.

[Justin Varier]

That's right. And since we're speaking about the East, I also think this is an opportunity. We're talking a lot about the Pistons and whether or not they will or won't do anything. If I'm them, I am going out and getting someone at the very least, that doesn't complicate my cap situation because they do have a lot of guys to pay who are coming up on rookie extensions over the next couple of years. But I see this the flip side of what everyone's saying where it's just like the west will steamroll whatever the east puts out there. If I'm the Pistons, I'm like, if I dominate the East, I have a clear road to the finals, then all bets are off.

[Rob Mahoney]

Off.

[Justin Varier]

Like if I could just get there, then at the very least I might be well rested while all of these Western Conference teams fucking just like take each other's limbs off each other like. So if one of these teams can just like solidify itself as the dominant force in the east, there's a real.

[Rob Mahoney]

Opportunity there, I would say. Especially because the smart defenses in the league are starting to get more and more exaggerated with the way that they guard the Pistons and more specifically who they don't guard on the Pistons. And they're just way too many lineups where there are two, three, four guys who even though some of them might hit by percentage, aren't so deadly that you can't leave them open for a couple seconds or aren't so quick off the trigger that you can't get back to them in time. And it's just putting a lot of pressure on Cade, it's putting a lot of pressure on Jalen Duran. They really could use just like one more real piece of firepower there and. And they certainly have the pieces to do it if they want to.

[Justin Varier]

All right, since we're talking about east teams that can't play defense, why don't we talk about Trey Young and the Atlanta Hawks? Specifically whether or not any team needs Trey Young, which feels like it's going to be one of the dominant storylines going into the trade deadline. We'll see what happens. We're at the point of the pre trade deadline season where everyone's like, I don't know if anything's going to happen. Like we do this every year. Then Luka Doncic gets traded. It's like actually they were just waiting for X, Y. It's like, all right, cool. But Young, at the very least, in addition to Anthony Davis I think we're talking about a little bit later is probably the dominant name at the deadline. I just am at a loss right now trying to find a match for the Hawks because in any sort of like multi team trade that's get throwing out there, apparently they're a Davis suiter themselves. It just doesn't feel like there's a place for Trey Young. Like, Rob, am I missing something? Do you see like an obvious spot there?

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't. Because clearly the answer would be you want to find a way to route Trey to a team that really needs the offensive help, that could benefit from his playmaking, that could benefit from his gravity. Like he still has great vision and he's, he's a great player in terms of coordinating the action on the floor. The shot selection might not always be what you want, but he's obviously talented as a point guard. So I'm looking at like the bottom 10 offenses in the league. Which are, which of these teams could really benefit from Trey Young? They're the teams that already have point guards. The Golden State warriors, the Dallas Mavericks, once Kyrie gets back. That's why like a one for one Trey Anthony Davis thing doesn't really make sense. There would have to be a third team involved. I think the Memphis Grizzlies, I guess. Although we can kind of talk about whether they have a point guard they want to invest in or not. There are a bunch of teams with no real urgency. Brooklyn, New Orleans, Washington, Indiana. I don't know why they would trade for Trey Young. And that kind of leaves Portland, where trade doesn't fit. Chicago, where trade doesn't really make sense, and Sacramento, which we just constantly shrug and say maybe it'll happen.

[Justin Varier]

Right.

[J. Kyle Man]

Let, let me backtrack to Portland a little bit here though, please, because this was one that I thought about a lot. I was kind of looking for a team that had a lot of athletic sort of appendages, that needed a brain to sort of make them move in cohesion a little bit. Granted, Denny has ascended and become a great orchestrator. He's. He's developed in so many different ways. But you're also. The tough question about Trey is you're, you never want to do this. You never want to sign up for more responsibility for your defensive players. But unless a player is really, really special, Trey with them is interesting to me because you get the two headed monster of the Denny and, and Denny's a little different than Jalen Johnson in terms of the way he likes to go about offense. That one is, is a little more intriguing to me because I think there are some expirings you could move. I don't know what. Well, what was your hold up like? What do you, what would you all say the hold up is with. With Portland? I mean, timeline wise, I think would be the main thing because you got scoop. But I'm curious to dive on more on that, on Portland.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, I think for me it was cultural. I don't know how you feel about it, Justin, but he just doesn't seem to fit the model or the blueprint or the ethos of that team. And really any way to. To the point, Kyle, I can kind of see what you're saying as far as giving something they don't have, but it's so different from what they have that I, I kind of hesitate to think they would actually do it.

[Justin Varier]

Yeah, I've been sniffing around and asking people about whether or not they would swing for something like this and my initial read is that it seems a little too soon. I just think in addition to the fact that all of these injuries have muddled the picture that they just don't know what they are like they'll win games like the other night against the spurs where Donovan Klingon looks awesome and it's just like you think you're one team and then the next night they'll probably lose a game that they should have won and it's completely just mixing things up. Caleb Love is playing like heavy minutes and looks actually halfway decent. City Sudoku is like a real deal rotation player all of a sudden. So it's like it's he's playing solid but he's in the road. They're counting on him as a rotation player.

[Rob Mahoney]

They are unquestionably are for better or worse.

[Justin Varier]

But it's that. But it's also they do have all these bets still kind of percolating on the roster that we kind of forget because they're not really showing at this point. Like we don't know what Yang is going to be long term. I think they're hoping he could slot into that orchestrating role. Dame isn't playing this year. What is he going to be next year? It's going to. It would be impossible to move him if they did want to like jump the gun because he has a no trade clause. And then like Scoot isn't playing right now. Shaden is playing better and so it feels a little soon I think for them to take a big jump. And that's the problem with a lot of these teams when we're talking about like this point guard poo poo platter of like Trey, John Morant and Lamello Ball. I guess it's like teams practically all have their guy or they have their guy in waiting.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah. And I think with Portland too, I don't know how much we should be counting on Damian Lillard to eventually be a real basketball entity that we need to take into account with these things. But if you're looking forward getting Dame back at some point, like, does that make Trey redundant in some way? Does it at least counteract some of the appeal of getting him? I think Portland is at a pretty delicate spot and one that we've seen with a lot of young teams where they're writing a level of organic growth to a point and then there will be a level where they need to accelerate, right where they need to cash in some chips, trade some young players, trade some picks, whatever that looks like for them. And you have to, you have to choose that moment really wisely and you have to choose the player you invest in really wisely. And I think that's another reason why Trey makes me feel a little nervous for where they are.

[J. Kyle Man]

I don't think anybody's going to invest in him to that extent or really make a big bet just because the trade offs are so tough. Like if you. Like we were saying that, Justin, like you were saying, it's like the teams that have it decided, you're, you're basically asking Trey to come in and do things that sort of stress the trade off of having him on your team. Where it's like, okay, yeah, we, we don't necessarily want to have him on the ball. Well, it's like he's pretty short. He's not as great a three point shooter as we, as you would hope. And then I've always kind of wondered something about Trey and this is a broader, just kind of basketball thought in general. It's like some guys are more suited to be the second side decision maker. It's like it's just a different game of chess. Whereas I feel like Trey has mastered the ability to compensate for his size when he is the person directing the band, you know what I mean? Whenever, whenever the flow of the offense is going and it's in the blender, you get him in a crowd, you start to just see some of the, some of the problems with him. And it's like I was kind of watching and granted it's been so sporadic with him playing with Jalen Johnson. It's like a lot of the stuff that Atlanta is doing with him is he's, he'll come off of a dribble handoff and get in the lane and you're just, it's, it's very accelerated in a way that doesn't seem to complement him the same way of the like slow it down. We're doing this exactly the way Trey Young wants to do things. And I think that's a problem for a team if you want to import him and add him to what you already have have.

[Justin Varier]

It isn't good that they lost all five games when he came back. And so it really just like whatever hope you had that he could still fill that role. And like we saw this the other night against the Raptors where it felt like they needed someone to take the reins and really like take over late, that he would fill that role. I think that it's kind of passed them by. I think that they've turned the page on this. The defense in particular has been just atrocious. I have them as 126.2 defense of rating when he's on the court this year. And so it just feels like they're in a different phase, especially as Nikhil Alexander Walker just plays so lights out offensively. I think the problem is I just don't know where to put these guys. And so we're past the point where there's like a Memphis Grizzlies waiting to sign Allen Iverson, right? Like there's this aging star who at the very least will bring you out to the games. And I can't decide whether or not that's a good thing because on the one hand, teams are kind of left with, with their mistakes or whatever you want to call them. You have to play through John Moran's contract, you have to play through Trey. Trey Young's contract. There is no amnesty waiting there, even if it is in the form of a trade. On the other hand, there's no snow globe effect anymore. And so because the season is so goddamn long, we kind of have relied on this to shake things up at the trade deadline. And so I don't know where I fall. Where are you guys on this?

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, I mean, first, it's kind of tragic in its own way that we're talking about Trey Young in these terms as Allen Grizzlies, Allen iverson, he's a 27 year old former all star, former like fringe, borderline all NBA guy, like prime. Like, this is. This is going to be as good as it gets for Trey Young over the next couple years. Like, this is the best version of this player. And if there are no takers on that guy, what is it going to mean when he's 32 years old? Like what. What is it going to mean even deeper into his post prime when the, when the size and the age really come to take a toll on him. I still feel like inevitably there will be someone like he is. He's too talented to completely bail on, and yet he does not fit where the Hawks are right now in basically any respect. And I think part of the reason, Justin, you're seeing that defense, like the defensive fall off being so stark, is in particular without Kristaps Porzingis out there. They're so reliant on their length and switchability at every other position that you compromise one of them and they just completely lose their balance in terms of their ability to handle things. And so the combination of having Trey out there and no like, like legit rim protector with actual size I think is a real problem for them. But it's also a real problem that a lot of other teams are going to share. Like, not everyone has a true, like, backstop rim protector behind them. And that's kind of where you want to start. If you're looking at the teams that should be interested in Trey, the one.

[Justin Varier]

Thing in his, like, kind of favor is he is on a player option next year. So on the one hand, a lot of teams aren't going to look at this as a straight dump, which at this point might be more favorable, might grease the wheels a little bit more easily in order to get rid of them. On the other hand, it's not like a John Moran situation where you have to deal with multiple years still left on the books there. You really have to get through this year and then next year perhaps you could swing them into something else. But man, I don't know. Like, do you guys think that Trey is the more intriguing one of these guys or do you think because of the potential still simmering at the very least for Lamel, maybe if you squint hard enough with jaw like those are more like compelling to you. If you're looking to make a bet on any of these guys, I think.

[J. Kyle Man]

Schematically, I think I trust who Trey is a little more in terms of like the rounding of his skill set, the erraticness. There's just so many damning conundrums. I mean, Lamelo, as much as I defend him and to the point of the ridiculous at times, is so erratic. We haven't really seen him play any meaningful basketball, whereas we have seen Trey play some meaningful basketball in terms of just his stability as a competitor and things. I mean, I feel like I. And then you look at John, it's like, it's just there are basketball problems in addition to sort of the off court stuff that he's had. So. So, I mean, I think if you were sort of just trying to level it out the highest outcomes right now for me, I still. I don't know, I feel like I might lean Trey a little bit still. Like, is that. But I guess that just speaks to the fact that there aren't a lot of suitors for Jaw. There's probably. Are there the most suitors for Lamelo still, will we say or.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think so. Even for as weird and polarizing a player as he is to me, I feel, look, I feel. I feel mixed about these guys in their own individual respects, but I feel pretty definitive that my ranking would be Lamelo, Trey, Jah. In terms of the priority in which I would want them on my actual team. I. Trey.

[J. Kyle Man]

Trey driven by juries out on Lamelo, basically. Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

Because juries out and the combination of like, if he ever does get it in the way you need him to get it, it will be such a transformational thing. And I think we've seen enough evidence with Trey to suggest that he kind of is who he is. He feels a little more confined to that particular role. He's good at it to a point, but how far that takes you is kind of still up for debate. And maybe, oh, I guess maybe it's already answered, to be honest with you, in terms of him as like your go to scorer. And then, yeah, I think you really hit it with Ja. The combination of all of the incremental fall off in his game and his driving ability, plus all of the questions in terms of his just like judgment as a star, too much. As far as what I would be willing to trade for, I think the.

[Justin Varier]

One thing that you cannot trade for, if you have some hope, if you have some like, like budding all star like the Hawks do with Jalen Johnson, is trade for a superstar on a superstar contract who doesn't play often enough. Which is why when I hear them as Anthony Davis suitors, I'm like, don't do that. Like you're pretty much capping yourself. Especially because it seems like Davis wants an extension on top of whatever trade you make for him. That just seems like you're boxing yourself in. And we've seen time and time again the teams that get into trouble are the ones that traded for superstars who just aren't available. Look at the Brooklyn Nets. Look at Kawhi in the Clippers. That era, like really ushered in what we're seeing now with the depth and just like the widespread talent. Because when you don't have a Star playing star minutes. It's completely just guts you. And so I just don't get it. Like, I wouldn't trade for Ja for that reason. I wouldn't trade for Davis for that reason.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think we don't talk about this part enough, Justin, because you're right, it is especially punitive now more than ever, I would say the combination of where the NBA is financially, with all of the new cap rules, with the aprons, the idea of having $50 million in dead money is just so painful for a lot of teams. And that's to say nothing about what it does to your team chemistry, what it does to the flow of your season, the momentum that you build and can't build because this guy's in and out of the lineup. I just think ultimately the. It feels like guys are getting injured more and more with soft tissue and soft tissue injuries. And at the same time, all of these very, like, draconian restrictive rules are changing the way teams think about actually building their rosters. And the way that all that stuff kind of tangles up, I think could end up defining the next three or four years of the NBA until any of these things budge or move in any meaningful way. It's like the teams, obviously, that stay healthy are going to be more effective, but the teams that prioritize, guys who can stay healthy and aren't investing in those kinds of deals and contracts, who aren't taking the desperate swings, I think that they're going to be richly rewarded for it. It.

[J. Kyle Man]

I think the thing you said about it'd be one thing if we had a lot of suitors for Trey and the rules for, you know, the fact that we don't have a lot of suitors for Trey and the fact that the rules make it so complicated to get him in the first place, even if people did want him, is frustrating. To answer the broader question, I think, Justin, that you had in our outline about, like, is this bad that nobody wants him? I mean, that's the thing, Rob, you're. That's the heart of it, is that it's very, very painful that this isn't just like a mutual parting of ways of, like, this doesn't work. It'll probably work somewhere else. They're just kind of. The fact that they're not able to leverage a talent like Trey Young for what is clearly kind of working now, this thing that they've discovered with this Jalen Johnson core that could be tweaked, the fact that they're not going to be able to leverage him obviously, maybe somebody will come through and take him, but that. That is painful. So is it bad in that sense? I mean, yeah, it sucks. Granted, they have that pick too, so it might, might, who knows? But in a perfect world, they'd be able to use Trey Young to level up.

[Justin Varier]

Yeah, we went through half a decade where the buzzword in the league was financial flexibility to the point where I don't even really know what it means anymore. But now I think we're getting to the point where roster flexibility matters so much more because the finances are so restricted.

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[Rob Mahoney]

Rated E for everyone. Includes in game purchases. Includes random Items EA Sports FC 26 is here. Play your way this holiday season with an overhauled gameplay experience powered by community feedback. Enjoy festive upgrades in Ultimate Team with winter wildcards. Take on holiday themed challenges and manage your career like navigating the busy Christmas period and team up with friends and clubs with new tournaments and live events. The club is yours. Give the gift of football with EA Sports FC 26.

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This message is brought to you by Apple Card Apple Card members can earn unlimited daily cash back on everyday purchases wherever they shop. This means you could be earning daily cash on just about anything, like a slice of pizza from your local pizza place or a latte from the corner coffee shop. Apply for Apple Card in the Wallet app to see your credit limit offer in minutes. Subject to credit approval. Apple Card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA Salt Lake City Branch terms and [e-mail] well, let's go to Giannis now.

[Justin Varier]

If only because we need to check this box. Nothing's really happened. He's back. He's drawing up plays to win game which is actually kind of sick. They are great when he plays well. Gray is probably strong. They are very good when he plays and they can play in any game that he's there for. But I think inevitably we will see and hear a lot going into the deadline. My question for you guys though is if you could just block out all Giannis related material from now through the deadline with one of those like John Ham Black Mirror style, just statics. You just don't see it anymore. You just hear the crushing against you. Would you do it?

[Rob Mahoney]

So if I accept this, am I also getting the static that's replacing him? Getting like a game winning lob dunk.

[Justin Varier]

To make it more interesting? Yes, let's say so then.

[Rob Mahoney]

Absolutely not. Why would I. Why would I rule out the Giannis experience for myself?

[Justin Varier]

So you're gonna suffer through another month plus of fake trades every day.

[J. Kyle Man]

This is so you. This is so grievance driven, Justin. Because it doesn't. I don't, I don't find myself. I was reading it and I was like, he's so annoyed that he would consider. Also, I wanted to add that I haven't watched Black Mirror at all. I know that's like a shame, shame, shame on me. But not to the level of the Sopranos with Rob. But I had, I went and looked, looked at the clip that you were talking about. Pretty dark. I'm led to believe it's a black mirror.

[Justin Varier]

Look.

[J. Kyle Man]

Pretty fucking bleak. I just. A quick synopsis on that. No, I mean also, Justin, we have the ability to mute words on Twitter. I don't know, whatever your social. You do have the technology to do this. So I just wanted to throw that to you as a first option.

[Rob Mahoney]

I actually could say we do program a podcast so we could choose not to talk about Giannis trade stuff anymore until actually happens, if we are so inclined.

[Justin Varier]

Yeah, but we need that sweet, sweet traffic.

[Rob Mahoney]

There's the trick. The cynical heart of Justin barrier comes beating through.

[J. Kyle Man]

You're so tortured.

[Justin Varier]

If anything, I wanted to kind of check the box because we're kind of reset and we're talking about all the big. It would be weird not to talk about Giannis. I just don't have much to really add here. I think he's not going to get traded before the deadline. It's just too complicated at this point. Seems like they're waiting for him to hit the eject button. He doesn't want to do it. And this is probably something that will happen over the summer, right?

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah. And I, I want to, I want to reach out to the Bucks fans specifically because I know there is, as always with these stars, like a level of frustration in terms of the way these things are covered. Just to be very clear, Giannis has pushed for a trade several times now. This is a real thing that has happened. This is not a media invention. This is not just like smoke. We're all fanning up, up.

[Justin Varier]

Specifically said the team, he would like.

[Rob Mahoney]

To Go to specifically called his shot. And. And some of the reason this stuff has gotten walked back is Giannis himself getting a little wishy washy about the whole thing. Some of it is the bucks kind of balking at some of the potential returns that has all kind of turned it into the mess that it is. But ultimately I'm tired of the waffling in that respect. Like, if we're going to do this, let's do it, and if we're not, we're not. And all that is fine. I would like to turn down the volume on basically everything else involved. And I. I'm going to choose to do that in my own life outside of this podcast when we are required to talk about it. Situation demands. But ultimately, like, this is a real thing and it's going to be a real thing until Giannis gets traded. Ultimately.

[Justin Varier]

That'S that.

[Rob Mahoney]

No, stamp it. I just send it out.

[J. Kyle Man]

I also just don't find myself getting as, like, irritated by. There are certain new cycle things I'm so. I'm so focused on on the court thing. Like, that's the core thing about basketball that I enjoy. I don't even get into trades as much as. Or salary cap type stuff.

[Justin Varier]

Stuff.

[J. Kyle Man]

I think it. I mean, I guess it stands. It's obvious because I'm so into Eval is my favorite thing. It's what I've kind of based all my work around. So I, I don't find myself getting as annoyed by it as you. I guess maybe you're just kind of on the wire in a way that's like, it's affecting you in a way. It's not affecting me, you know?

[Rob Mahoney]

How's that, how's that view from the high road up there? Are you. Are you feeling really good?

[J. Kyle Man]

I'm just saying. No, I mean, it's a. I'm not saying that there aren't things outside of what happens on. Like, I'm very into the basketball culture, obviously. Like, sure, you know, I'm sickening. I'm eaten up with it, you could say. But I don't know, like, that kind of stuff just doesn't irk me the way it does.

[Justin Varier]

One of my greatest accomplishments in life is bringing Rob down in the mud and getting him into the trade machine culture because there's times where he wouldn't engage with any of this. But now he's so broken.

[J. Kyle Man]

Just take back what you said, Justin. Okay. Or Rob. Yes.

[Rob Mahoney]

No. This is what podcasting with Justin for like five years does to a man, you know?

[Justin Varier]

True. How do you feel now?

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, I do feel dirty. I do feel compromised. I once was like. I was like you, Kyle, you know, once upon a time. But now I do live in the mud. And you know what? I'm rolling around in a little more than I used to. But at least we can be cool and relax together.

[J. Kyle Man]

I just like hoops, man. I just like hoops.

[Justin Varier]

I want to see Rob in the Michael Fassbender role for shame. But it's all about him just watching. Just like trade machine, like fake trades and putting guys into into Jersey swaps.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, first of all, that's an HR violation. You don't want to see me in anything resembling the movie Shame. But you know, I'm not ruling out the possibilities as far as the trade.

[J. Kyle Man]

Machine goes or Rob in a movie called Shame about his nirvana take. That's more appropriate, I think.

[Rob Mahoney]

No shame in that game, my friend.

[Justin Varier]

Yeah, well, speaking of deep shame, let's talk about the Clippers or I guess both LA teams. Before last night, before Jaylen Brown dropped 50 and looked like the best player in the world and according to him, the best two way player in the world. The Clippers were on a bit of a run here, unfortunately. Still pretty buried in the standings, but not so much so that they couldn't make a legitimate push into the play in mix. We still don't know what's going on with the Kawhi aspiration fiasco. I assume we'll get that before All Star break which is happening at into a dome messy. It sounds that's those are the rumblings happening that will happen leading into that. It seems like people are suggesting that it would be worse if it was still looming over the situation when it was happening. I don't really see a difference other than people will ask about it while they're there, but I just don't think if they're going through an entire season and they haven't been drilled by it now why would it be derailed with All Star there? I don't know.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, I feel like if they announce it, people ask about it at All Star and if they don't announce it, people ask about it at All Star. So what ultimately is the difference except that the NBA is hoping to host a big honking party at the Intuit Dome, which to me suggests like they probably won't do it. But I look, I look forward to the swift adjudication of justice. I really hope that the, you know, the long arm of Adam Silver comes down and slaps whoever needs to be slapped. I just don't know that that's going to happen that soon.

[Justin Varier]

Hopefully the law office that's looking into this for several months now is getting paid by the hour because there's zero doubt they're definitely up some fees to slow ball this one.

[J. Kyle Man]

Yeah, them discussing this case is a podcast that I would, that I would listen to. I don't know if we have. I guess we can't have law of podcasts legally. But yeah, I mean, it's interesting because it has kind of receded a little bit from the daytoday talk, so you would think that they wouldn't want to sort of bring it back at allstar Weekend. That would seem like a really grandiose time to be like, here, here it is, back from the dead, this story. But you're also right too, where it's like it's not at this point. It's not like it's going to derail some perfect season for the Clippers. So I don't know. I kind of. I feel like it'll probably be the off season two, but what do I know?

[Justin Varier]

I. I do think it's quite appropriate and just hilarious that Kawhi looks better than ever. So they were six in a row and Kawhi just has been an absolute killer over, over the seven games. So including Saturday night's loss, basically 37, 8 and 4 with three steals. He's shooting 42% from three on 10 a game and getting to the line 10 times a game. Yeah, like, this is absolute, just like meteoric shit.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, he's a fucking buzzsaw basically whenever he's healthy, but especially now. It's been, it's been awesome to watch to the point that I'm actively enjoying watching the Clippers again, something I just did not think I would be saying at any point this season.

[J. Kyle Man]

He's still just such an immovable object and one of the most deliberately paced players of all time in terms of the way he plays. As for a Wing, I'm trying to think of other wings who played this way. I mean, he does, he has finesse things in his, in his game, but I just always laugh at the way that, like when Kawhi gets in the lane, it's just people bounce off of him. He just kind of sees a space whether it's there or not, and you just kind of like fall back, like people are helpless defending him. And it's like he just needed a little bit of stability in terms of his health and he just looks like one of the Best players in the world again.

[Justin Varier]

So the question I have down here is, do you believe in the Clippers? We'll get to the Lakers segment of this right after that. But I have to say, like, I find it hard not to when I was watching that game the other night, because it's not just Kawhi being Kawhi, it's just the ball was pinging in a way that I hadn't seen practically for most of this season. Like, you're getting just wide open. Looks for Chris Dunn was knocking him down. Derrick Jones Jr. Before he went. He's gonna be out for a little while here. Looks revitalized. Zoo is playing again. And so, like, it is all coming together ironically as like, this thing is all crashing around them leading into the All Star break. But like, if we're saying the bar is playing, like, that's doable because they're only like three wins away from getting there. And I expect at least one of these teams, the Grizzlies, big blinking red light as the team in question. Like, I think they could vault them at the very, very least.

[Rob Mahoney]

So the question we're asking is, do you believe in the Clippers, dot, dot, dot, to make the play in, well.

[Justin Varier]

Different bars for different teams. But yeah, I guess just in general, do you believe in them any more than that as a top six, perhaps?

[Rob Mahoney]

I think they have a pretty long way to go still to crack the top six and anything less than that, like, they do make the play and it just kind of makes them a tough first round out against what's going to be a really good team one way or the other. So I believe in them relative to these teams they're bumping up against. I just don't know that it's going to go anywhere at this point. And that's kind of the tragedy of all this is even for as great as they're playing and say it continues to go this well from now until the end of the season, it might still be too little, too late. And that's. That's a weird thing to say this early, but they were exactly that bad.

[J. Kyle Man]

Yeah, on the one hand, you look at some of the glacial sort of elements of like, their identity as a team that have hurt them during the regular season. And you're the natural kind of progression of that is if you watch enough basketball, it's like, yes, it's the trope of everything slows down, but you look at some of the top teams like you're talking about the top six. Some of these teams that are at that are up there. I mean, Houston, let's say they get one of these like the spurs or these are OKC with the. These teams that are very high points off turnovers, very high controlling the defensive glass. Even if they somehow got into that situation, they've got the size. I just. Man, the disruption of these teams I think could really, really be a pain in the ass for them and just sort of like bring back from the dead those. Those issues that they had during the regular season of just. I could see them just getting. Getting in and then just getting slaughtered by one of these teams that is competent and is young and is fast.

[Rob Mahoney]

It has been awesome though, Justin, to see some of those guys come back from the dead. Brook in particular John Collins too, starting to play a little better and kind of find his spot with this team, which is super important. That's why I like the Derrick Jones thing is unfortunate because they really can use his defense and his pressure and I mean even in that Celtics game, somehow his shooting ended up being a huge factor in that game. But. But they need guys like that and ultimately like they're. They're getting better minutes out of like Niederhauser than I ever thought they would this season. Otherwise. Yannick Boom, as he's. As he's known around these parts and all parts soon to come. Otherwise the end of the bench or like the end of the rotation, it leaves a little bit to be desired. And that's something that's just like so different from even a team like the Nuggets who when they're healthy, just have so many guys to throw out there potentially. And the Clippers would be incredibly reliant on their best guys. Their best players are as good as anyone, especially in terms of Kawhi. I just don't. I still don't trust a lot of their other rotation.

[Justin Varier]

Would you consider Chris Paul then, considering that he's still technically on the roster? Is he like the ghost of Lob City past?

[Rob Mahoney]

He haunts these halls.

[Justin Varier]

I can't believe they haven't figured that out yet. I guess it's a money thing where they can't just like drop him because they're still on the hook for that. But like he's literally still on the team, just not on the team. The team.

[Rob Mahoney]

I would assume they are waiting to see if there is a reason to have his salary included in some kind of trade.

[Justin Varier]

Yeah. Which is like that's got a. That's even worse. Like the situation is already so like, murky to do this to like a former legend that you hope to put in the rafters one day. It's just like now you're actually just like, kind of have him on house arrest where he can't go join another team until another month or so.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's incredibly cruel. You should not do that to your elders. I think that there's a number to call about that somewhere, and we should all look into it to it.

[J. Kyle Man]

You think? You think Yanic.

[Rob Mahoney]

Boom.

[J. Kyle Man]

I want to go back to this. Justin, Rob and I were talking about this. I mean, Yannick. Boom. At what point do. Do you have to hit to earn a name like that for a specific move? Does he earn that or is it ironic in a way? What are we doing?

[Justin Varier]

It's just right there on the table. You just need the opportunity.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, okay. All right. I think that's a nickname that we're mostly eager for. It is a little goofy, but it works. And it just kind of hits in. In an organic way that I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna to poo poo it. I'm not going to pretend I'm too good for it.

[Justin Varier]

Right. Like when Kevin Durant saved his first game and they all called him the savior. Oh, wait, no. That just didn't happen. So if the Clippers make the play in, is that like a. A good outcome? Like, if you're on the Clippers, if you're in the front office or you work for the team, do you feel good about that because of the sunk cost or you're like, actually, we. We were like a win away from really challenging in the west last playoffs. Like, actually, this was a complete catastrophe.

[Rob Mahoney]

So still, I think anything resembling a season in which this team is alive is a good outcome. Like it.

[Justin Varier]

Positivity. Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Again, like any kind of positivity. Any kind of momentum. Yes. It's not where maybe you hope to be coming in with all these veterans, but as far as course corrections go, after the first couple weeks or month of the season, like, they're doing something right. They are making something of their season. They're making something of their efforts. They're playing with actual pride, which I think goes a long way with this stuff, but especially with the Clippers, they just did not show any of that competitive integrity in terms of getting him back on defense, investing in that sort of ball movement. Like, they weren't finishing possessions. They were just kind of doing things out there and running around, if. If you could even call it running around. Maybe more jogging.

[J. Kyle Man]

Did you say momentum?

[Rob Mahoney]

This.

[J. Kyle Man]

This team is like the Garnett Pierce nets. What momentum this is do or you send them dying. This is literally. These dudes are old. Where are we going?

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm not talking about momentum into the net worth. I'm talking about if you take. If you took their temperature three weeks ago, we would be putting this team under the ground. And now we're at least willing to entertain that they might be on some life support. We're at least willing to let them, like, amble around the halls a bit and get a little frisky while dragging their IV along with them. Like, that's something. Like, honestly, it's something.

[J. Kyle Man]

Bravo, Clippers. Bravo.

[Justin Varier]

Question is, when is the one last job season? Because I kind of thought it was this one. It was because they were promising all this future cap space that they might put to use. Use which becomes particularly muddled in light of all these investigations and whatnot. But, like, do they just roll it over next year and be like, ah, we didn't do it this time, but now this is one last job on top of the one last job? Yeah, two last jobs.

[Rob Mahoney]

Isn't that the entire, like, Fast and the Furious series? I don't understand the confusion.

[J. Kyle Man]

Every single Mission Impossible trailer is being Rheims being here. Yeah, Tom, I need you being. Or I don't know his character's name. He's like, one last ride. I swear. Every single time. Right. That's what we're doing.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, spoiler alert. Ving Rhames will not be. Or that character will not be having any One more One last rides in.

[J. Kyle Man]

The last Mission Impossible. So I don't know. That movie was not good, so I was validated.

[Justin Varier]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Damn.

[Justin Varier]

No, Ving, I haven't seen the latest one.

[Rob Mahoney]

You're. You're better off skipping it. If we're all being honest with ourselves, the villain is AI but also not AI, you know, just like real life.

[J. Kyle Man]

I guess if it were Allen Iverson, I would have stayed awake. That. That would be a great movie.

[Rob Mahoney]

Scintillation.

[Justin Varier]

All right. Well, across the city, I guess the Lakers having their own sorts of issues. I can never tell what's an issue and what's not because they're still fifth as we're recording this in the Western Conference. It's just like every JJ Redick press conference is him griping about something. So I guess I do have down here. Do you believe in the Lakers? I guess the question really is like, is there a problem here? Isn't this kind of what we all expected?

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, but what we expected and what is happening is that this is a team that looks really bad on defense in particular. And I think it's, it's really here, here's what's happening. All of the defensive concerns, all the defensive flaws with this roster, every concern we had about their lineup is happening and it's being accentuated by the fact that this is a team that even in the best case scenario if they got their defense back in set would still get torched by a lot of opponents. And they're turning it over all the time and not even giving themselves a chance to actually guard anybody. And so that's a Luca problem. That's a, that's a team wide problem. That's an offensive problem. That's an are they or are they not running the sets they're supposed to problem. There's a lot of stuff happening at once. I don't see any reason to feel good about any of it in particular. But it, it will get a little better than this. I feel confident in that it'll be.

[J. Kyle Man]

Entertaining like I said. But like you were saying, Rob, I don't think that it's going to ascend to the level. They just have too many defensive problems. And I think at some point we have to. I think Zach was talking about this recently and I think this is very true. This is a team that is just sort of a monster. It's like a liger. It's just sort of a, it's like a cross bred thing that just shouldn't really exist. That really only existed because the odd circumstances of the Luca trade happened where and, and you're conflating that, you know, bringing that together with the fact that LeBron is paid like a superstar super duper star player at an age where he can't be consistent and you can't continue to build around him. So you just have these odd dissonant things going on. Same time that when you combine it with the def. They're creating the defensive issues also. It's just a team that shouldn't really exist. So I kind of have a hard time being super harsh about them. They obviously have a lot to do. If you go down and you look at like defensively who's lighting up the Lakers. It's like every wing size ball handler in the league is just like circling that date because they're going to go out for a great dinner at Major Domo or if they're a restaurant of their of choice, Tsubaki. And that was the place we went wrong.

[Rob Mahoney]

There we go.

[J. Kyle Man]

And they're going to Have a great outing against the Lakers because they are just a screen door, basically. Basically.

[Justin Varier]

The defense, I expected to be this, like, they're 24th overall, and I kind of expected them to be in that range regardless of what was happening. The thing is that the offense has just been so muddled, like, it is successful. But I think you have three things all, like colliding simultaneously, which is Luca wants to play a certain way. LeBron wants to play a pretty similar way. And they're always kind of jostling for who gets to palm the air of the ball and, like, survey and do things their way. And then on top of that, you have JJ who's just, like, wants to wring the, like, the last bit of sweat out of every possession. And so it's just like, he wants control in his sort of way. And so, like, he's complaining about sets, but it's just like, what sets are you even running with LeBron? Isn't it just, like, go make magic happen? And so all of these things, it's just like, I think what you guys said about the trade happening at the inopportune time for LeBron more than anyone is true. It's just he's on a completely different situation, timeline, whatever you want to call it, it. And I just don't see how that gets solved in the midst of the season. Unless they could work out a miracle trade or they just want to move on earlier. And it's just. That's just too messy, I think.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, and in a perfect world, maybe the Lakers would have landed on the ideal center and the ideal wing defender and, like, all these pieces would have clicked into place in the off season. I don't know. Guess what? You already spent your perfect world getting Luka Doncic in the first place. Like, the serendipity already favored you. Now you got to do the hard part, and that's finding every compo, like, component piece that fits just so around him. And I think they have have some guys who do some of that right now, and we should say one of them is out of the lineup right now. Austin. Austin Reeves has been out for basically the better part of the last three weeks. That's a huge deal. That also adds to their turnover problems. That also makes their offense a little bit gummy. Doesn't really change anything about how bad their defense is at the moment. But I think the bigger problem with them is, yes, we expected the defense to be bad. Yes, we knew that the roster was flawed. They are not just losing, they're just getting Outclassed by teams. They are getting run up in some of these games in a way that, that just does not reflect well on basically anyone involved. And maybe that's a wake up call for them. Maybe it's just a reflection of who they're going to be, or maybe they're going to level out somewhere in the middle. I just don't see any reason to feel super confident that they're going to be a real deal contender. They're going to be pretty good, their offense is going to level out. But ultimately, like, how do they take a step forward without making meaningful changes to this roster?

[Justin Varier]

Are you guys as shocked as I was that LeBron was the, like, anywhere near the top of the fan voting going into All Star? Like, I was legitimately shocked. Not like, maybe he's splitting votes with Luka. Maybe the team is pushing Luka in a way. I don't know what it is, but, like, the fact that there wasn't a wellspring of like, just like, let's get this guy into the All Star Game maybe one last time, or just to complete out his. His kind of run here. I was legitimately shocked.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think the injury played a part in it for sure. And yeah, you're right. Like, Luka eclipsing LeBron as the definitive Lakers star obviously takes a toll, but it's also even just quite that simple. Like, there are a lot of really great, compelling players in the west right now. And it's easy to say that, you know, Anthony Edwards has had a bigger impact on the floor this season than LeBron James. Victor Webign.

[Justin Varier]

Bigger impact. My guy Denny Abdia is ahead of LeBron right now in fan voting. Israel does show out for. For Denny.

[Rob Mahoney]

They. They clearly do. I also don't know if you saw this, Justin. My voice got clipped for a Denny Avdiya All Star voting hype video.

[Justin Varier]

Oh, no.

[Rob Mahoney]

From this podcast. Me promoting Denny, talking about how great he's been this season. I'm now part of the apparatus that's going to get him elected. I am working the Electoral College against my will. And yet I assume you're going to be happy with that.

[J. Kyle Man]

This has to hurt, Justin. This has to. Or does it hurt? I don't know. You know, you put a lot of work in for Rob to just sneak in here and snatch it at the last second.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's true.

[Justin Varier]

I know. No, anybody who wants to join the bandwagon even though you were later than me, that's fine. Okay?

[J. Kyle Man]

Okay, There we go.

[Rob Mahoney]

You're in the front car. Of the bandwagon. That's what you're saying.

[Justin Varier]

That's right.

[J. Kyle Man]

I think in terms of the, the guys drafted in the arts, like, you know, we've, we've talked a lot about how we have this interesting problem, not really a problem of, of with a league, you know, figuring out who's going to be the face of the league like that. We have these prominent guys who are hanging around longer with Durant and Curry. I feel like those guys have just been a little more in the zeitgeist in terms of like, in terms of celebrating them and maybe it's, it's the LeBron getting, getting the scoring record or whatever it is. It just seems like those guys have been a little bit more in the consciousness, but it's probably a function of them just playing. I don't know if it's us being just really short term memory or what it is, but am I. Is that your old perception that with LeBron, is that maybe affecting the fan.

[Justin Varier]

Voting in this era of IP where everything is something that happened before? I would assume LeBron is the like one of the few IPs that the NBA actually has that it could bank on like him and Stephen. But the fact that things are flipping so quickly I think is ultimately maybe a good thing long term, that younger guys are getting more shine. Maybe it suggests that fans are more interested in the next wave of guys and they're just like they're done with LeBron. I don't know. But it is weird because that's not how the NBA has worked for Jordan. Like people were giving up spots for him to start in those games. Adam Silver like created spot for Wade and Dirk in their farewell seasons, despite the fact that they were both hobbling through their last ones. And so this is just completely against what we know.

[Rob Mahoney]

Especially when it's not like LeBron has been bad, you know, like the defense, he, he's playing defense like a 41 year old former freak of athletic nature would play defense. Which is to say sometimes he has the flashes, often he doesn't. That's okay. Like he's still incredibly productive. He's still a huge help to their offense in terms of its flow. I think it is just this combination of things with the Lakers being a little weird and things with Luca being so bright and so loud all the time, that he is the guy you think about as a representative from that team. But otherwise he and Duran are kind of at same place in terms of these voting returns. You know, like both of them have sort of Taken a slight step back from the public consciousness in terms of who is front facing in the NBA right now, which is crazy. Is a revolution in its own way. But yeah, I agree with you, Justin, that it does kind of feel right in terms of the timing.

[Justin Varier]

There was a recent ESPN article, I think it was a wind horse Bondemps thing where they were talking about LeBron's like, options basically for next year. And it was like, take a massive pay cut for the Lakers, I think, sign in free agency or retire, which is pretty blatant. Those are the options. But it kind of struck me like I was like, oh, shit, this is almost over. In a way that like, I know the appreciate LeBron is like its own cottage industry, but like, I find myself wanting to appreciate LeBron more.

[Rob Mahoney]

Look at you.

[Justin Varier]

Like, this is the end. Like, I don't know, for whatever reason that really underlined it. Maybe it was his 41st birthday the other day. Yeah, the sciatica stuff, which is a very old man sort of injury.

[Rob Mahoney]

Again, you keep saying that, but as a guy with sometimes sciatica on this podcast, I just. I feel like you're. Look, we. We all know we are. We're three unks on this pod. That's okay. This is who we are. But you don't have to rub it in.

[Justin Varier]

Wait, we need to get an injury report on you, because I swear to God, every time we bring up an injury, you.

[J. Kyle Man]

I didn't even know you had sciatica. I didn't know. That's my first time hearing that.

[Rob Mahoney]

Currently I'm healthy and doing great, but, you know, your. Your boy has back problems. I don't know what to tell you. They're on again, off again, your boy.

[J. Kyle Man]

In the bubble, you getting the pneumonia and then getting the flu. So you're back from the flu now? What's going on, man?

[Rob Mahoney]

Look, it's been a journey. I'm not going to lie to you. The last shots, I'm getting my shots, but apparently not enough of them. Do you have more shots I can take?

[J. Kyle Man]

We have people we can ask.

[Rob Mahoney]

Okay.

[Justin Varier]

Sands of time, man. That's all I'm saying. Like, things. Things are going away.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah. Dust in the wind. All of us are old bones. And LeBron's career. We're going to have to say goodbye someday. I'm. I agree with you though. I'm not for it. Like, whenever that time comes, and I do suspect at least LeBron will give us the. The walk up of the. Of the goodbye tour. I think that's the kind of send off he will ultimately request but I don't know, maybe he won't.

[Justin Varier]

Crazier things have happened while on Cleveland.

[Rob Mahoney]

It would be right.

[Justin Varier]

I, I think that's where this is headed. Especially as messy as Cleveland has gotten. I kind of think that's what's going to happen.

[J. Kyle Man]

And he kind of makes sense for them basketball wise too and that would be an interesting find final act for him.

[Rob Mahoney]

I would love to know what makes sense for them basketball wise the the Cavaliers.

[J. Kyle Man]

He could be a good stagnant connector for them in a way that would help I think like right.

[Justin Varier]

Well let's flip from the Unks to to the noobs because rookie of the year races is also kind of heating up in the background of things. I have it as a three man race right now. Am I missing anybody between flag con canipple, Vijay edgecom and even VJ seems like he's a clear 3 3rd but at the very least this seems like way more interesting than I can remember and of guys just like vying this deep into the season where it seems pretty neck and neck.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah I, I think VJ is slightly below those other two guys. Do you, do you feel differently Kyle? Are you, are you. Do you see this? A three man race or a two man race right now?

[J. Kyle Man]

It's, I mean it's probably going to be unless VJ just takes off and has like and just lights the world on fire. But. And I don't know if y' all been watching him in the last week. Holy shit. He looks incredible.

[Rob Mahoney]

He's been awesome.

[J. Kyle Man]

He's afraid of no one. Just the space of the NBA game has just take a drink unlocked him in ways that have been really really fun to watch. And and the, and the Sixers are kind of. I will talk more about this in a minute. The, the Sixers actually get more and more interesting to watch for me. But yeah I think this is a two man race and I I was looking back at and Khan and Cooper have really upped their production too in the last like 15 or so games so they continue to get better and better better their situations. I think Cooper's is probably on a better like improvement track at this point than cons. Even though the Hornets were really fun to watch in the beginning of the year. You mentioned it like the history of there being like solid three man races because I got kind of sitting down the same the same hole too. I mean in 2018 Ben Simmons, Donovan Mitchell and and Jason Tatum. I don't know you all, you all Been covering the NBA longer than me. That one was pretty close. Then you go even that was more.

[Rob Mahoney]

Of a two man race though.

[Justin Varier]

Yeah, eventually.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[J. Kyle Man]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

All I know the billboards and the shirts were aimed between Donovan Mitchell and Ben Simmons.

[Justin Varier]

I forgot, yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

The hoodies about who is, who is a real rookie and who isn't. God, we were so dumb. And by the way, I mean just all of us as a, as a species.

[Justin Varier]

Yeah.

[J. Kyle Man]

Oh, you had to go all the way back to 04 to get a really close voting three way race. This is just such a crazy that this was a race. LeBron, Carmelo and Dwayne Wade and that's just.

[Justin Varier]

Jesus.

[J. Kyle Man]

Holy crap. Yeah. Then 03, Amari Yuran. 99, Elton Brand, Steve Francis, Lamar Odom. I seem to remember that one being pretty good. Yeah. The fact that Odom was three then 96, AI Marbury, Sharif, 95 Grant Hill kid, Big Dog and then Weber, Penny Mash. So there's a history of this happening. I don't know. Do we think the upside is as high for this, for this group? Maybe not. I don't know. Do we have three hall of Famers in this group? Is that possible?

[Justin Varier]

It's hard to predict right now, but it seems like right now these guys are going to make the hall of Fame. No, I, I think it's tough, but at the very least, these are guys that feel like they're going to be important for the next decade or so. I feel very strongly that these are going to be regular All Star caliber types of players. And I think it's really interesting seeing Flag and Edgecombe do this in the midst of team. At least in the case of Flag, that could be good at times when AD plays versus Edgecom, which is like a team that might actually do something in the east, might like win a playoff round. We'll see. That's honestly the biggest case against Edgecom is oftentimes he has to seed the floor not only to Maxi, who might very well get MVP votes this year, but also Embiid is dunking now when he plays. Right. He's at the very least occupying a lot of possessions. Edgecombe has to move into a different role. Yeah, but like all of these three guys, we're not even talking about the depth of, of the entire class. There are other guys, like the top five for all rookies. Going to be tough.

[Rob Mahoney]

Definitely. So. But I think when we're, when we're forecasting, you know, the hall of Fame potential or whatever we want to look at with these three, I do think that they. They strike me as three guys who, when all is said and done, they're going to be beloved players. They're going to be revered players. And I think what it is is something you mentioned with Vijay, Kyle, which is the fearlessness that all three of them play with, frankly, and the guy who. Who they're willing to challenge and win and how they just fucking go for it in a way that is incredibly admirable. That's really charismatic on the basketball court. And clearly all three of them are just wildly skilled. And if VJ does have a case to sort of catch up back in this race, weirdly enough, Justin, I think it might be that Embiid is playing and that Vijay is. We, like, we found him to be the kind of player who fits alongside other stars so seamlessly and pick his spots and find his shots and like, slot in very easily as a supporting player in a way that, you know, doesn't necessarily drive the conversation in the same way that what Cooper does for the Mavs might be or conanipple does for the Hornets might do, but ultimately might be more meaningful.

[J. Kyle Man]

I had one thing defensively, I think, though, that that is interesting. If you look at these three guys, one. One thing that I think gives Vijay, he. He deserves a little. He needs somebody to point it out and champion him. And God damn it, I'm going to do it. It's going to be me. In some terms of, like, the assignments that he's drawing, I feel like he is. His. His matchup difficulty is. Is higher. Like, I feel like he's taken on more tough assignments than Canipple and Flag, but. And then they're just different. I don't know. They're. They're almost just like different Mario Kart like attributes. It's like you look at. You look at Cooper's wi. The width of his switchability is a little wider, but it. You kind of have to measure them. I feel like BJ's been tasked with a little bit more on that front.

[Justin Varier]

Yeah. So Flag was here in Portland the other day, I think, last week, and it was one of the first of, I believe, three kind of subpar performances to the point where people are asking if he's hitting the rookie wall. He's still doing pretty well for someone who's. And Jason kids were touching the rookie wall and just at the very least, like, acknowledging it was what he was trying to say. That, like, the good guys. I don't know if you guys saw this quote, at the very least touched the one Wall and then kind of recover from that is put his hand.

[J. Kyle Man]

On it and listen to it, learn from it.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, right.

[Justin Varier]

It's a real hoarder situation. But I, I did love the fact that Flag, even in the midst of a poor just like scoring performance just has that real like plays the right way like drawing to always looking for somebody else isn't shooting well, looking to get everybody else involved. And I think that is compounded and it kind of, kind of comes to the fore whenever AD is playing. And I do wonder, unlike most use, if being on a successful team at the very least will highlight Flag's best attributes where he'll be in pretty high stake games. Whereas like con, is he going to get shut down down the stretch like The Mavs are 9 to 9 with when AD plays. Will he play the rest of the season? We'll see. Will he play the rest of the season for the Mavs? Who knows. But the very least I think Flag's going to be in if he's there pretty big games or all these games with a lot of eyeballs on it and that's going to help the whole Heisman moment sort of thing that really feeds into individual awards and probably Rookie of the Year more than any in the NBA.

[Rob Mahoney]

Sure. I mean I think I lean slightly toward Cooper Flag at this point anyway in terms of this race even. Even with some of those recent performances where you're right, jv, that it's not always the most wildly productive but you so easily see and understand him to be a winning player and some of that is like between the two if we're looking at him and Khan specifically, I think it's kind of a draw in terms of what they're doing offensively right now. Now both carrying a pretty significant load, both doing a lot of playmaking and scoring for themselves and other people. But the defense I think tips pretty clearly in Flag's direction and he just is such a difference maker already with his length and anticipation in terms of what he can do defensively. So I can't wait to see what kind of defender he becomes. But he's already finding those spots now and when he's playing with Anthony Davis, which we should say is not an easy thing like the maths with Anthony Davis. Davis are a pretty ugly team in terms of the flow of their offense and what they're trying to do, he just like figures it out on a pretty regular basis. In a way that really impresses me for a rookie, really impresses me for a guy who's been In a tough spot all year. I think this award is like slightly leaning flag for now, but could easily topple the other way at some point.

[J. Kyle Man]

Yeah, I think, I think the defense is, is a big factor there for, for Cooper. He, he just has more of a disruptive free safety kind of a vibe. Vibe in a way that Khan doesn't. Granted, Khan moves better on defense than I think people give him credit for. I think people see his build and stuff and just assume he's just a turnstile or just can't. Granted he's, he's holding on. He just doesn't reach, he doesn't reach the highs that Cooper does. But Colin's been very steady from beginning to end. That's the one thing you kind of say about him is there haven't really been like low lows with Khan. He's been historically good as a three point shot shooter. I brought this up not to not or recently that in terms of volume, he's kind of unprecedented. We really haven't had a rookie shoot the volume. Granted he hit the 100, made threes before anybody in history, but doing it at volume and doing it at efficiency really, really well.

[Justin Varier]

Efficiency is probably what would tip me if we had to vote today because you just don't see that from rookies. It's usually production just on empty calorie scale, but I think it's flags to lose just because he's going to have bigger moments and uh, as long as he's just touching the, the rookie wall and not like giving it a full on caressing or full embrace like, he'll be fine.

[Rob Mahoney]

Can you embrace a wall? Um, like how do you wrap your arms around that thing?

[J. Kyle Man]

Just can you put your wingspan out and just lean on it?

[Rob Mahoney]

I think, I mean you could definitely give it a good lean. I hope he doesn't give it a good lean.

[Justin Varier]

Get a corner, you're in action.

[J. Kyle Man]

It's true.

[Justin Varier]

Who would you guys have at number four on your ballot? Is it Caleb?

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't think it's Caleb Love at this point. Do you want to make the case?

[Justin Varier]

No, I do not. But he has had a good seven games recently.

[J. Kyle Man]

Yeah, big time polygraph guy, Caleb Love. He probably would argue that he's number one. Queen. Queen has, I mean the queen mania has, has subsided a little bit, but he's still been good. It's kind of crazy how much Nimhard isn't in contention for the award, but it's. He went from not being on the radar to like, this guy's just an NBA player like and he's a good one too. Really interesting.

[Justin Varier]

Also saw him live. Obviously he might be 4, 9. He's the smallest guy I think I ever seen.

[J. Kyle Man]

That's why I was worried about him in the draft.

[Justin Varier]

Bud Webb, like jarring how small he is in comparison to NBA size players.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, I was trying to figure out recently who is the actual smallest player in the NBA right now. Obviously listing is pretty dubious, but I. Alvarado, right?

[Justin Varier]

This sounds like a hot Friday night.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean it honestly is. You should try it sometime. But I think you're right that Nemhard might be the guy. He. He feels smaller than anybod else. Alvarado is right there too. But you know, maybe it's nem hearts to take his award to win, so to speak.

[Justin Varier]

He looks like you plug in like a tiny code for like a golden eye sort of game.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's exactly it.

[Justin Varier]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Odd job. Not allowed it breaks the game, breaks the rules.

[Justin Varier]

All right, last one on the books here. League pass re rankings. So we've had about like what it's past the quarter mark.

[J. Kyle Man]

Mark.

[Justin Varier]

We're not quite at the halfway mark. We're somewhere in between. But this is a good time to like re rank and like reconsider who we're watching. It also might get a little jumbled around trade deadline because obviously those teams become a little bit more interesting to us. But if you were to do it right now, who's number one on your guys ballots?

[Rob Mahoney]

Is there a single reason on earth it should not be the San Antonio Spurs?

[J. Kyle Man]

It's the Spurs.

[Justin Varier]

I had the Celtics.

[Rob Mahoney]

I had them on my list too.

[J. Kyle Man]

I do have my Celtics are in my five.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yep.

[J. Kyle Man]

Same T Mobile. That's not a thing anymore, right? T Mobile.

[Rob Mahoney]

My five. Look, no free ads, certainly not for random cell phone companies for five year old things.

[J. Kyle Man]

But they are in my five.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Justin Varier]

Spurs are two for me if only because I am getting a little worried that the wembanyama like two missed games, three missed games is starting to happen more frequently.

[Rob Mahoney]

Sure.

[Justin Varier]

And also the Celtics have that like underdog thing to them despite the fact that they are playing so well. Like it is Jaylen Brown against the world. And plus you, you get to explore like some of their young guys in between there. But like that sort of stakes to just like a Tuesday game against the Pacers. Like that's something.

[Rob Mahoney]

It is absolutely something. I mean we're what 35ish games into the season and I still go into every Celtics game or not go into. But check in at halftime being like, how are they doing this? How is this happening? How does. How does the math on all this quite add up to what we're seeing on the court, which is they are somehow just one of the best offensive teams in basketball. Basketball. Despite all of that inexperience in terms of new guys and new roles, despite everything that Jalen's being asked to do, which is a fuck ton on a nightly basis, and he's carrying it incredibly well and so gracefully and so efficiently. I'm blown away. They're number five on my, my revised league pass rankings, but I'm honestly as surprised as anyone, given where they started, that they would end up here. They're just a blast.

[J. Kyle Man]

They did not start the year on my list, I think, because I just looked at what was going on and I was like, when this is going to be a, you know, maybe a little bit of a wishy washy turd year for them as they, you know, navigate this, this post Tatum thing or, you know, temporary post datum thing. But they, they really have climbed yet for me, too. Major MF or energy with this team. I think that's the most entertaining thing, whether it's the brown chippiness, like you said, and just the activity that they have amongst their guys. Pritchard, obviously it's interesting too that it hasn't been about the things that we thought it would be about, because when this season came in, we were like, well, this is going to be a little bit more Derek White. And you know, we love Derek White. It's like, not really. It's been about an amalgam of other things and still ended up somewhere interesting.

[Rob Mahoney]

Dare I say, more about like Naesh Kada than Derrick White. You know, it's more been at times more about Jordan Walsh than Derrick White. Like the things that are elevating the Celtics, you're right, are not exactly what we would have pegged them for.

[Justin Varier]

Yeah, not to belabor the Celtics, because we've been talking about them for 50 minutes of this hour and a half podcast. But like, if you're worried about the Celtics, like, I think next year is where team should be really scared because not a lot changes for this team, like they have to fill the Simons role. I wonder if they try to do that at the trade deadline, but they roll back this entire team, basically. So if you believe in them now, like, wait for a full season of Tatum, like, they could be fucking good next year.

[J. Kyle Man]

Yeah, I really just wanted a new year bonus. That's why I was wanting to talk about the Celtics a lot. I was hoping to get one.

[Rob Mahoney]

We're really fishing.

[Justin Varier]

So I have the Celtics first, the spurs second. Rob, you had the spurs first. Who do you have second?

[Rob Mahoney]

I have the Rockets second. And it's sort of different reasons like the Spurs. I love watching the ways in which their team just kind of fits together and make sense. I love the way that the Rockets don't make sense. I love watching them problem solve every single night. I love the physicality they play with. I would say especially in terms of the Ahmed Thompson experience. That's a guy whose spot on the floor and role changes so dramatically from possession. I just love watching watching him find his way and figure out like how to be a dunker spot threat, figure out how to be a pick and roll player. Is tonight one of the nights where he randomly will make mid range jumpers? Who knows. But that's what I want in my league. Pass experience and the fact that they're this good and this competitive defensively, I find them incredibly watchable.

[J. Kyle Man]

They moved out of the top five for me. I think purely just because I watched them so much to start the year. That's like the only reason reason I was watching them constantly.

[Rob Mahoney]

Just odd offensive rebounds out of the gate. And you're good now.

[J. Kyle Man]

Well, yeah. And, and then. God man. There's some nights where I just like worry for kd. Like the. If Shing Goon's not going to be there now it's like let's please God preserve kd. Like he's just, he's carrying so much. Just watching him navigate traffic to get to the 15 foot elbow and yeah. And get to his jumper. I'm like just. He's got dudes coming down on him like, like banshees. It's, it's. It's rough to watch. I just hope he stays, stays healthy.

[Justin Varier]

I'm the same way though. Pretty much everyone on my list is a team that is figuring something out still. The teams that know who they are for the most part are just on the fringes changing. Things have moved off the top five and so Kyle, who do you have at two? You had the spurs one, right?

[J. Kyle Man]

Yes, I did. I, I still really enjoy watching the Pistons. I'm gonna admit I didn't rank them. I just did my top five.

[Justin Varier]

I'll.

[J. Kyle Man]

But I'll. I'd say probably the Pistons of the team. I just am enjoying this. They had a rough west coast ride there where it was a little bumpy. Overall this team is just continuing to kick ass Granted, the playoff thing is going to be another question to see, to speak to what we were saying earlier, the way teams load up on them and force them to find another score decision maker. We'll see. But I still have had a great time watching them, watching Kate specifically.

[Rob Mahoney]

Pretty unimpeachable season as far as a young team taking the next step goes. It's exactly what you want to see in pretty much the exact manner you want to see it.

[Justin Varier]

Yeah, I had them fifth and I was kind of struggling for my fifth spot. But I just kind of resigned myself to the fact that I watched the Pistons three to four times a week, at least a half of them, because they are in that first window more times than not. And I'm always looking for a team to just like watch for a little bit, and they're always there. Also, there's like, they're still figuring some things out. Like Danish Jenkins had six threes made in like the first half. So some of these younger guys, the two A guys that they're just slotting in there will have moments. And those are pretty fun to watch. So I have. I had them at five.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Justin Varier]

Speaking of Eastern Conference teams, though, number three on my list, the Brooklyn Nets. I had to really stop myself from putting them number one. I'm a hipster pick.

[J. Kyle Man]

I love it.

[Justin Varier]

It's exactly what we were talking about with the Celtics, where they're in every game for the most part these days, at least for the past month or so. Yeah, they have one player who's excelling beyond all of your wildest fantasies. And then on top of that, they have all these young guys where it's just like, I don't know who this guy guy is. What is he going to do? Like, how are they working in Cam Thomas on top of all that? And so there's just like way more intrigue that than there should be. Honestly, if I was on the Nets, I'd be worried that there's so much intrigue because I thought we were going to tank the season and get a true blue superstar. But like, once again, they're just too good and I like watching them. As a result, they are very fun.

[Rob Mahoney]

To watch and certainly more fun to watch than they were earlier in the year. Like, the defense has really helped. MPJ's like, come up has been awesome. I want to ask you about one play in particular, though, Justin. Did you happen to speak see Danny wolf miss a 3 so hard that it hit Kevin Durant in the face and then Katie was really upset with him. Afterwards, did you like this?

[Justin Varier]

That was a bad shot or something? That was a bad miss.

[Rob Mahoney]

It was a bad shot. That's just an objective truth. But this is also a part of the experience is seeing young guys just brick so badly off the backboard that they're hitting a basketball institution in the face.

[J. Kyle Man]

League pass philosophy varies from person to person. And if you like the calamity of bad shooting, that's just as valid as saying, this is a good team, you know, Completely.

[Rob Mahoney]

I, I, I could not agree.

[Justin Varier]

Listen, they gave it to the, to the Jokic List Nuggets, who, as we mentioned, were missing a lot of guys. But like, they did it. They're winning some games and they shouldn't be. But it's fun kind of watching them navigate this. Will they still be doing this like a month from now when they've traded MPJ in practice?

[J. Kyle Man]

You gotta trade mpj. Gotta trade him, right?

[Justin Varier]

We'll see. But for now, they're number three on my list.

[Rob Mahoney]

Can we get a quick Noah Clowney update from you, jv? Like, how much of your net worth would you be willing to trade away way for? I don't even know what you're getting in this case. It's just I feel like you're so invested in the Noah Clowney experience. Do you want to leverage yourself even further on Noah Clowney Island, Archipelago, Village, whatever it is.

[J. Kyle Man]

Did you mean to pun net worth there? That was, that was a nice job. Nicely done.

[Rob Mahoney]

Stumbled straight into it.

[J. Kyle Man]

Yeah.

[Justin Varier]

But to answer your question, I'm actually selling my house in order to buy more stock because he's so good.

[J. Kyle Man]

Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

And I'm going to move a second.

[Justin Varier]

Hopefully he has room because I have nowhere to live.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think if anyone he would bring you in, he would let you sleep on his couch for all that you've done for him because he's a supporting player.

[Justin Varier]

Right. He helps his guys out.

[Rob Mahoney]

No doubt.

[Justin Varier]

Okay, who do you guys have left over?

[Rob Mahoney]

I got the Charlotte Hornets at three. They're finally almost kind of healthy, barring centers. We'll see. We'll see what happens when those guys come back. I just love watching the Hornets. We just talked about all the ways that watching Khan in particular is, is great. Brandon Miller being back and relatively healthy is so nice. Lamelo is obviously like just one of the greatest shows on a basketball court for, for better and often for worse, unfortunately this season. But I can't stay away. I can't stop. I'm addicted to the Charlotte Hornets and I will be until the day I die. Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.

[J. Kyle Man]

I still watch a lot of Hornets. They, they. I've moved on from the volume of watching them. I've actually got a couple, couple older teams that I've started watching recently. Just this is purely driven by the fact that Kawhi is just being Kawhi again. I feel like I can't miss it, honestly. It's, you know, talking about the appreciation thing, I'm just like, if this feels like it's so rare and so finite and dwindling and diminishing all the time. If Kawhi is going to be Kawhi, I, I on a nightly basis have been like, I'm not going to miss this.

[Justin Varier]

Yeah, I don't have either of those two. But for similar reasons, I do have the Lakers down here as my, my fifth team. So I have the Lakers Pistons at five. I'm just like in my feels about LeBron, man. Just like got to savor every last drop of, of, of greatness.

[J. Kyle Man]

Nostalgic dorks. Yeah, that's a theme for us.

[Justin Varier]

I mean, I do think outside of like the, the one or two really strong like steamroll regular season that the Lakers have. The Lakers are a perfect league pass team. If they weren't on national TV so much, this is the problem. But they're constantly like just good enough to be in every game game and put LeBron in like clutch situations. And now it's LeBron Reeves when he's, when he's healthy and Luca in those. And so like watching them navigate that in real time, like, that's actually really good league pass stuff.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's good basketball stuff. It's good to watch. Is it league pass if it's not on league pass? And these are the two truths I hold to be self evident about league pass rankings. One, Kyle already mentioned bad teams should be included. Like you should value watching different parts of the process if that's what interests you. It doesn't have to all be good teams teams. And two, it should be teams that are on league pass and not on national TV all the time. So that's why like can the Lakers ever be a league pass team?

[Justin Varier]

What if I watch those national games on league pass? Does it still count? I'm not black.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, you better honestly, like, you better live up to your end of the bargain if that's where you want to do with this.

[J. Kyle Man]

The, the ultimate Lakers league pass team would probably have been. Would it have been that first Shaq Lakers team that had Eddie Jones, Nick Van Exel, like at that just swath of awesome young guys. I'm trying to think of times that they've been eligible for it because they quickly became ineligible for it.

[Rob Mahoney]

But yeah, didn't exist back then.

[Justin Varier]

I actually wrote a piece for the Ringer the first year I worked here where the Lakers when they just got LeBron and it was him with all the young guys and Javale McGee was like, they're doing that play where they win a tip and he runs and tries to get a lob dunk off of the first play like that. They are the perfect league pass team. And that was actually the main criticism that came up from it. You can't be a weak Bass team.

[Rob Mahoney]

So you're recycling your old takes and you did not learn from the criticism of them.

[Justin Varier]

No, I still think it's true.

[Rob Mahoney]

I do have one more team. I have one more team we have not discussed, and that's the Phoenix Suns. A team that I never would have put on this list to start the season. Yeah, look, I love people who give a damn. I can't help it. Dylan Brooks has endeared himself to me greatly this season, as he often does when he plays well. Also, can we please talk about Jamari Bouillet? Please? Just a. Just a classic, like next guy up shit happening in Phoenix and I'm really loving it.

[Justin Varier]

Well, that's a good place to go.

[J. Kyle Man]

Out with features too. I forgot to say with a bouillet, but okay. Can I propose one more thing before we leave? I just had an idea I wanted to bounce off of you guys. You know, a lot has been made of Bill Kennedy's really funny challenge. His. His narrative, his performances on the Marvel monitor. Don't you think it would be great in the playoffs if we could get. Each team gets a celebrity on Mike. They get to sort of create a narrative and deliver their own performance of. Of the. The result of the challenge call. Can you imagine if we had like Pat McAfee in Madison Square Garden being like, the Pacers challenged, it was upheld, or Shalom other way? I think this would be pretty entertaining. I think it would add a nice WWE element to the NBA. That could be fun.

[Justin Varier]

So first of all, why are you taking this away from Bill Kennedy? Because he's going to sign like a sponsorship deal just off of this. But I don't hate this. Like, does it have to be someone who's already courtside for a game, like a regular celebrity fan, like a Jack? Or can we pull from anybody?

[J. Kyle Man]

The team and the fan base gets to pick whoever it is they want. I just think even, even a, you know, what's his name for the Knicks? The. Whatever. I'm blanking. But there are a lot of different guys that could do it. That could be pretty funny. Rob, what's your hold up? What do you. What don't you like?

[Rob Mahoney]

I think this is a beautiful idea in theory, and in reality, 12 teams are going to be represented by Kevin Hart, and I just don't want that. So, like, I. I just am not.

[Justin Varier]

Signing up for it in Drew.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, yeah. Like, again, get the work if you can, guys, but we just don't need that volume of either of them.

[Justin Varier]

All right, well, maybe with Rob and Dallas, you could fly in and they'll just put you up there.

[Rob Mahoney]

Wait, wait, what's happening now?

[Justin Varier]

Yeah, you get a cowboy hat on, you go in and be like, partners.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm in. Yeehaw.

[Justin Varier]

Call was overturned. All right, partners. Why don't we wrap it there? Thank you to Victoria Valencia. Thank you to Isaiah Bl. Thank you to Ben Cruz. We'll be back. Regular schedule from here on out. So Wednesday, Sunday, Sunday throughout the rest of the regular season. We'll talk to you next time. Must be 21 plus and present in select states. For Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 + and present in D.C. kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-Gambler or visit rg-help.com, call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org and Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gambling helpline ma.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text HOPE NY in New York.