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- [00:00]
Justin Varier
This episode is brought to you by patron 100% additive free tequila. When it comes to ingredients, Patron doesn't need to play games. That's why their tequila is crafted with 100% Weber Blue Agave water and thyme. No sweeteners, no added extracts, no secrets, just 100% additive free tequila. Visit patron tequila.com to learn more. The perfect way to enjoy Patron is responsibly Copyright 2025, imported by the Patron Spirits Company Coral Gables, Florida Tequila 40% Alcoh by volume. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Basketball fans know that a great assist can change the game. And there's no greater assist than one from State Farm. State Farm is here to help you navigate the right coverage for your home car and more. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. State Farm, Bloomington, IL coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability and eligibility vary by state. Hello and welcome to Group Chat. I am Justin Varier. And joining me, Big Waz, but no Rob Mahoney today. But in his stead, we have a guy I like to consider the Tracy Letts of the ringer NBA coverage, Michael Pina. What's up, man?
- [01:24]
Michael Pina
What a comparison. I'm speechless. Justin, thank you so much. Always happy to be here.
- [01:29]
Justin Varier
You're just a distinguished takesman and aficionado of the craft. You know, you guys are very similar in that regard.
- [01:36]
Big Waz
Also, apparently Michael Pien is a swinger, if the Internet is to be believed. I don't think, once again, y'all didn't hear about that.
- [01:48]
Justin Varier
No.
- [01:48]
Big Waz
Y'all didn't hear about Carrie Coon going on Marc Maron and saying basically saying that she's in an open marriage and then having to like tamp it down and being like, yo, I wasn't saying our marriage is open, blah, blah blah. Which we know that's what she was saying. So shouts to them, very 20, 25 of them.
- [02:09]
Justin Varier
I know that Tracy Letts, who has just done the big picture podcast with Sean and those guys. Hopefully he's not a big NBA head because he might not be guesting on crew chat anytime soon. But shouts to Tracy Letts and shouts to our own Tracy Letts, who's a little bit probably more prudent with his extracurricular activities, I assume.
- [02:31]
Michael Pina
To be clear, I am not in an open marriage either. But let's continue this podcast. Let's.
- [02:38]
Justin Varier
Wise. What's up with you? Have you been plugged into tourney time? Are you like, are you smarting from the Johnny's? Just getting.
- [02:45]
Big Waz
That was tough. Especially losing to Calipari. You know, Calipari took extra joy in dispensing with Rick Pitino. Um, it's the first St. John's team that had any chance of doing anything since probably Ron Artest. Some people would say the Marcus Hatton era, but yeah, it's tough. Was tough to watch that happen the way that it did, but we're fine. I got to watch the dookies, which were pretty impressive. I'm not going to lie. Duke is good. Seems like they're just going to kick everybody's asses. But yeah, managed to watch the Lakers game last night, if you could even call it that. Just a lot of basketball this weekend. Soccer was on international break, so had a lot more extra time to watch sports this weekend.
- [03:32]
Justin Varier
A lot of time to do your. Your job, basically.
- [03:35]
Big Waz
Yes.
- [03:36]
Justin Varier
That's good to see. Unfortunately, the Huskies also were felled in the second round there. They came pretty goddamn close. And unfortunately, unlike Duke and some of these other prospects that are kind of taking flight here, Liam McNeely, not really looking forward to him and his NBA career because he basically submarine the Huskies in that second round because he couldn't hit a goddamn shot. So I guess two titles in a row will have to suffice. Three would have been nice, but we'll be fine. Dina, are you. Are you watching any college basketball in between? Like craymin jazz tape?
- [04:07]
Michael Pina
The first college basketball game of the season I watched yesterday was UConn Florida. And it was just so disgusting. I've remembered why I hate the NCAA tournament. I hate college basketball. I have a question for you though. So do you think Hurley coming off the. You know, I know he's a total lunatic and. But coming off that loss and kind of the temper tantru that he threw, do you think he feels a little bit of regret in turning down the opportunity to coach Luka Doncic for the next 10 years and to stay in Connecticut? Like, what do you think is his mindset right now?
- [04:44]
Justin Varier
I guess I question how real the offer was to begin with. Was he actually in line to be coaching that team? Because if he was, I bet. But he also kind of lives for this shit. Like, it seems like his favorite thing to do is yell at college referees and also be caught in viral moments where he looks like an. Like a pretty big dickhead, I have to say. Like I. I was a Jim Calhoun just like Stan for the longest time, and he makes Jim Calhoun look like just like a Good Morning America.
- [05:14]
Big Waz
Those facts. He's like Michael Strahan.
- [05:17]
Justin Varier
He's Tough. He's a tough hang to the point. I don't know if you guys saw it. As he was walking off the court, he tells Baylor, like, I hope they don't fuck you like they fucked us. It's like, I don't know, maybe you guys just didn't make three points winners.
- [05:29]
Big Waz
Yep.
- [05:30]
Justin Varier
Yep. But you know what?
- [05:33]
Michael Pina
He.
- [05:33]
Justin Varier
He's had a pretty successful run there, so we'll give him a pass. Yeah, college basketball has been fun, but in between watching Duke, I have been cramming some Blazers games, some other games out here. So that's why today we're going to get into some of the best playoff races still left on the board. What do we have here? About like two weeks left in the season. Three weeks, so kind of like a month here. Couple things still left to play for. We're going to go through the biggest seeding races left on the board. I think we have to stop at start rather at the top of the Western Conference, where last night we saw a big old competition between the Nuggets without Jokic and the Rockets battling for that two seed was. What is your take on the two seed here? Are there any of these teams, Denver, Houston, I guess we can include the Lakers and Grizzlies, too, that you like, who might pull it out here down the stretch?
- [06:26]
Big Waz
I mean, I think Denver, if they try, can probably get the 2 seed, right. Last night they're playing without Jokic and Murray, who, look, I'm about as big a Jamal Murray apologist as there are in media, but the guy just straight up doesn't play hard every single game. Like, that's just not what he's here to do in the regular season particularly. But I think if Murray decides, like, yo, we really want to get this two seed, I think they'll be fine. And, you know, but. But I do wonder, do you want the 2 seed if it means you play Minnesota in the first round? I don't know. And I, I understand some people being realist about this and being like, yeah, you should avoid your worst matchup. And other people being like, that's bad juju. Why are you, like, trying to game the system and ducking opponents? You're supposed to be a competitor and feel like you can beat anybody. And so I think if Denver wants it, it's there for them for the taking. But I, I wouldn't be surprised if they kind of just eased into the playoffs and was just like, you know what? We want to be as healthy and whole as possible. We'll deal with the repercussions of who we have to play when, you know, when that comes.
- [07:44]
Justin Varier
What do you think, Mike?
- [07:45]
Michael Pina
I tend to agree. I think that the Nuggets are the second best team in the Western Conference. And Justin, how down bad were you watching Jamal Murray cook one of the best defenses in the league without Nikola Jokic yesterday? I'm just, just curious.
- [08:01]
Justin Varier
It was tough. I did get to see the flip side of that where he could barely score against Tomani Kamara in Portland. And so I got the good and the bad right back to back there. But like he practically ran out of gas in that game. And they almost dropped it toward the end there because they needed him be so great and he was great. He had 39 against the Rockets.
- [08:18]
Michael Pina
Very fair. So I was looking at some playoff probabilities over the weekend once you told me what we were going to be talking about today. Justin and the Denver Nuggets had a 9% chance of getting the second seed before that game. And after they beat the Houston Rockets, it jumped up to 20%. So obviously still not great. And we don't know when Nikola Jokic is coming back, but I thought that that was pretty meaningful. They also have a game against the Rockets in the season finale, last game of the year with the tiebreaker on the line. And I just feel like if Denver wants the 2 seed regardless of who's down at the bottom, because I feel like all these teams in the 6, 7, 8 range, and we're going to talk about them later, they're all really good, playing pretty solid basketball with superstars on their roster. So I don't know if there's a right answer for Denver. I just feel like you should win as many games as possible. Going out with the idea of health also being a priority.
- [09:14]
Justin Varier
Yeah, this time of year is a little difficult because we're constantly looking at the strength of schedule and trying to determine, like who's playing who, like who's. Who's actually going to be available for some of these games. For instance, Portland had a stretch here where they were playing Memphis, Denver, Boston, and now the Cavs on Tuesday all in a row. But then it's like Memphis without John Moran and then it's Denver without Jokic, and then it's Boston, even though they got crushed without a lot of their players. And so it's really tough to tell, but what a strength of schedule actually suggests here. And so I kind of look at it. How much is like how much do these guys need it? Right. And I think the Rockets, a team still trying to prove themselves, who has been playing very well of late. Right before this Denver game, I think, what was it, like, nine in a row they managed to reel off. They just need it more than a team like Denver, who it's clearly seems to be taking its sweet time with Jokic in order to rest him for the playoffs. Mike, what do you think about the Rockets in general though? Like, are you believing that, like, the recent stretch before this game is real? Because it seemed like they had found something and. But I think part of that is that Jalen Green is such an essential part of this and you never know what you're going to get with them.
- [10:18]
Michael Pina
Yeah, I, I'm split on the Rockets as a, like a threatening playoff team. Like, I respect their defense, obviously. I respect their depth and I respect their competence level, 1 through 8, 1 through 9. However, whatever they want to do. I also am skeptical of their ability to space the floor. If Dylan Brooks isn't hitting ridiculous shots, their offense kind of goes in the tank. I am not a Jalen Green person either, and he is so important to their offensive efficiency, which is disturbing to me, but I do like in that nine game. Once that nine game winning streak began, it coincided with this double big lineup with Steven Adams and Alper and Shingoon playing together. And it's a small sample, but when those two are on the court together, the Rockets look ridiculous. Like really, really, really good. And they're grabbing like half of their own missed shots, which is to be expected with those two on the court. And then, you know, they're playing this like funky zone defense, which is like antithetical to everything IME Odoka stands for, but has worked so far. Um, so I feel like it's a little gimmicky, but they have these little different wrinkles on their team that they can toy with. I mean, Jabari Smith coming off the bench since the All Star break really has been. I mean, if you can bring someone that talented off the bench, like, it says a lot about the different looks you can throw and the different lineups you can play. So I like them, but I just don't know. Even now with them in the two seed today, as we talk, like, how serious they are, if that makes any sense.
- [12:01]
Justin Varier
Yep.
- [12:02]
Big Waz
I think the, the Rockets, it would mean most symbolically for them to get the two seed, right. To have all of these years of a rebuild happen. Then last year they kind of make a breakthrough into like, basically announce themselves as part of the Western Conference upper crust.
- [12:20]
Justin Varier
Okay, team getting the one Last year we have arrived.
- [12:23]
Big Waz
Exactly. Especially with a team that relies on so many young guys. I think it would be a big deal to just to say, like, we were the second best team in the regular season in the Western Conference, which everybody agrees is just like a tough race, a tough conference. And so that's why I think they, they'll probably end up with it. They're number two right now, and it feels like it means the most to them to get this number two. Like the Lakers don't care if they get the number two seed. The Nuggets don't actually care. The Grizzlies are just trying to keep their roster, you know, together with bandages and whatnot and gauze pads and so I think the Houston Rockets have, you know, the most want to, like, they, they absolutely want to be the number two seed. And they've played their asses off all regular season, especially in terms of, you know, I talked about Jamal Murray not always treating every game like it's do or die or game seven. Like the Rockets are the opposite. These guys come out and they play hard every single night, which has been one of their distinct advantages all year, particularly as Mike mentioned, on defense. And so, yeah, I think the Rockets are going to end up taking this thing and it'll be a big deal for them. They should celebrate that.
- [13:37]
Michael Pina
Can I, can I ask you guys a quick question? Would you pick the Rockets in a first round series against literally any team at the bottom of the Western Conference?
- [13:46]
Justin Varier
It's tough. Maybe the Clippers.
- [13:48]
Big Waz
I think they could beat the Clippers because I have just a general lack of respect for what the Clippers are doing in terms of like, I can't.
- [13:56]
Michael Pina
Wait to talk about the Clippers in.
- [13:57]
Big Waz
Terms of their talent. I, I just have a straight up. And you know, like, Kawhi Leonard hasn't finished a regular season on the floor since 2020. Like, people need to realize that. So yeah, no, I, I think the Wolves beat him. I think the warriors definitely beat them. But I still love what they've done this regular season.
- [14:18]
Justin Varier
Yeah, I agree with, was that the Clippers probably are the best matchup on the board for the Rockets, if only because I just watched them play the Thunder and seeing the Thunders just like swarming, attacking, like swipe down guards against Kawhi, who's lacking a little bit of mobility still, despite being an absolute killer over the past month or so, I think would be the most advantageous. But I do think they're very susceptible to virtually anybody. They're going to face but you mentioned the Lakers was. I think that that's the team that you probably have to take more seriously in this, if only because they had this little bit of respite for LeBron James. And it almost feels like they need the rest of the next two to three weeks in order to still build continuity and consistency with some of these players. Like they've only had what, about a month since the trade deadline to begin with. And now on the one hand, I assume LeBron and all these other guys will get a bunch of rest down the stretch, especially how well Austin Reaves is playing. But I also want to see them like put together like a full, what, two weeks of good basketball before they go into the playoffs and try to do this against high level opponents.
- [15:22]
Big Waz
Did you watch that Bulls game last night and think the Lakers are like trying to build continuity right now?
- [15:28]
Justin Varier
Well, here's the question.
- [15:29]
Big Waz
They gave a 1:50 to the Bulls.
- [15:31]
Justin Varier
1:50. Well, and how much of that was the Bulls just playing out of their gourd practically since trading Zach Levine? I think it's pretty interesting that like they've gotten better since that trade and not worse, but also like they weren't around. I mean, LeBron's been out, Hachimura has been out for a while. They basically ushered everyone back in in one big wave and they looked like a team that was rusty.
- [15:52]
Big Waz
Yeah, I tend to just discount the idea that you could be rusty at trying on defense and executing some level of a game plan and getting back in transition and stuff. Like, I don't know, like, to me that doesn't seem like chemistry issues. And the thing is, I don't think they're going to build a more interconnected offense. It's going to be what it is. It's going to be. We rely on the greatness of luka Doncic and LeBron James, even at 40, to take us home. And we play, you know, hard nosed, be in the right spot on every possession kind of defense, a sort of physicality based kind of defense and go from there. So I don't know, I tend to think, again, LeBron pulled a freaking groin, man. Like, this is a usage kind of injury. And I don't know that these guys are going to be going pedal to the metal, especially since, you know, they got three games, or, excuse me, four games above the seven seed. It's like they're in pretty good position to avoid the playing, which I think is all they actually care about.
- [17:04]
Michael Pina
I fundamentally don't trust the Lakers defense and that Chicago Bulls game Where Josh giddy, I mean they have like the Wilt Chamberlain graphic up with him nearly getting the quadruple double. Like it's just, that's just insane stuff. I know the. Exactly. Like only the Thunder have a better defensive rating than the Lakers do with Luka on the court. And that just does not feel real to me at all when I watch them play. Like, overall opponents are shooting 28% from the mid range over the last month and we talk about three point luck a lot as pundits, but I feel like there's like a little long to luck going on too with the Lakers, if that makes any sense. And yeah, like, I don't know, I just, I go up and down their rotation and it's just a lot of guys who I don't like still. And I will credit them for the stretch that they had where the, the deep, where they fly, they were flying around. Vanderbilt came back and they had Hachimura and they had some athleticism and Gabe Vincent was hitting shots and LeBron looked great. But I just look at like Austin Reaves, Luka Doncic. I'm waiting for LeBron to, I mean it already happened with the pulled muscle against Boston a few weeks ago where he kind of shows his age a little bit. Physically they don't have a lot of size in the front court. And so I just, I just have a hard time taking this team too seriously. Am I, am I too down on them?
- [18:42]
Justin Varier
No, I don't think so. I do think their success defensively was because of how hard they played and also how hard they executed. And that's a credit to JJ basically taking a bunch of quality or just like average level players and coaching them up to the extent where they were pretty good even with AD before the Luca trade. I think the question I have is how much of that. Do you not want to add bad wear on the tires before the postseason? Because if that's the way they're going to be successful on that end, do you really want to push them or do they need to be on a string in order to play like that? And so you actually want to build the muscle memory and the continuity in order to bring that over into the playoffs. It's kind of a like chicken and egg sort of situation here. So I don't know. But I also think they're probably good enough offensively with just Luca or just LeBron on the court that they could win regular season games. So if LeBron wants to sit down the stretch and it's just Luca playing like he has been plus stuff like, I think they'll have a good shot at this two seed. I also have liked, frankly, the Lakers fans who have now started posting like sizzle reels or photos of just Luka looking hot and like dropping 10 pounds, but it's actually just him with different lighting. I don't know if you guys have ever seen the photos side by side of Alex Jones without his shirt on. And it's just Alex Jones, like, with a little bit more of a tan. That's what seems to be going on with Luca.
- [20:04]
Michael Pina
This is not in my algorithm. This is not in my algorithm. To be clear.
- [20:08]
Justin Varier
It will be now that, that I've spoken into existence. But he has been playing well and when he's engaged and when he's like trying to fight Josh Giddy, that's a scary player you want even in a regular season game.
- [20:19]
Big Waz
Yeah, I think Luca in the regular season is going to be fine. Like you said, I think Luca's good enough even in the, in the regular season, even if he looks a little bit diminished to me still in terms of burst and lift, they're good enough to get by in the regular season. They're not going to fall into the play in. But I don't know, I just don't see them getting that two seed ultimately overtaking the Rockets, who are trying like hell to get this thing. And the Luca thing for me is like, how many teams have the capacity to make him look the way Boston did, where it's just like, all you're going to do is get step back jumpers and nothing else. We're going to send minimal help at you and we'll live with those results. To me, unless Luka can show that he can be a threat in the paint like he used to be. This switch thing, this switching big man thing is not a new strategy. Teams used to try to do this and he used to cook it consistently, and now it's like, al Horford, who's 80, can just straight up be like, yeah, I'll be on the island with Luka Doncic, no problem. Jaylen Brown is like, I will rip this man, rip his handle. He's a freaking point guard. And I'll just rip him multiple times in a game, barely across half court. Like, if he can't improve on that, I don't think any of this stuff even matters.
- [21:48]
Michael Pina
I have a personal disconnect because I have all the respect in the world for Luka. I think that when he was in Dallas, it was like, oh, if Luka's playing then the Dallas Mavericks are a contender and that's kind of how I felt about them. But I also look at that supporting Cassidy had with the Mavericks and like a lot of the talent in terms of how it was built to fit around Luka and accentuate Luka's strengths and cover up Luka's weaknesses. And I just don't see that. Granted, to be fair, like it's. They plop him into this roster in the middle of the season. So I understand all that, but like it's just, it's not the same roster. And so to me it's like them being in the four seed. According to projections, their highest likelihood is the fifth seed, which I don't know necessarily they're going to drop a spot and Memphis is going to pass them. I don't know if that's going to happen, but the 2 seed just doesn't seem like a thing. And when you look at the schedule and the. I mean they have two games against okc, they have to play the Bulls again and we know what's going to happen in that game. So I just, I just, I just don't see them as a serious contender for the two seed.
- [22:54]
Justin Varier
Well, you mentioned Memphis. They're technically the last team here, although they are the farthest away here, currently in fifth. Was. Do you have any faith in the Grizzlies at this point?
- [23:05]
Big Waz
The faith is definitely waned. I will say I just don't like these guys used to get after people on defense and I know a lot of people have come in and out of the lineup and there's just been no continuity. But I just think the defense has been so disappointing and they were never going to be light you up, absolutely light you up on offense kind of team. It's just the effort and the consistency just hasn't been there. For me where I was really high on them in January where I'm like, hey, Memphis is so deep. I think John Morant is a sort of sixth, fifth gear kind of guy where he can ratchet it up when he needs to in terms of getting to the basket, getting to the free throw line, becoming like, you know, one of the more dominant on ball guys that we have. But I don't know, just something that hasn't gelled with them for me. And I get it. Ja's missed so many games which, you know, it's become a trend now. Like it's kind of become reliable that John Morant's going to miss a bunch of games that's been his career. And so, yeah, I'm a little bit more down on them now than I was in January. I was like, these guys can go to the finals. I don't feel like that at this moment.
- [24:25]
Michael Pina
The finals feels like a bit of a stretch, unfortunately. Yeah, they were my preseason pick to go to the finals and I feel like an absolute moron for making it Ja, you know, missing the last four games. They've lost four of their last five. He's got this hamstring and it's obvious, you know, he's obviously their best player and kind of the engine to their offense. But to your point, like, the defense has really, like, fallen off a cliff over the last, I don't know, six weeks. And so, you know, Brandon Clark going out for the season, I feel like he was an important part of their rotation, particularly with how he compliments Ja. And so, yeah, I don't know, like, they. I have a lot of respect for how they were built and kind of the. The Jay Huffs and the Scottie Pippen, juniors of the world on their team that have contributed throughout the season and Jalen Wells and Zach Eady being in their starting rotation, their starting lineup. I don't know. Like, I just. I've kind of given up on them, to be honest with you. And it stinks because I like so many of their players. Desmond Bain has been playing really well and Jaren Jackson Jr. Might make all NBA, but I don't know, I just, I. To be honest with you, I didn't even like seriously consider them and do research about them for this exercise. Cause I was like, they have no chance of getting the two seed.
- [25:50]
Big Waz
Yeah.
- [25:50]
Justin Varier
Yeah. The things I think we like about them are how well they've jaw proofed the roster that they have been so good consistently back to when Job was first starting to miss games without him. Jaren Jackson has been on another level this year. He's completely recalibrated his ceiling, at least for me as a player. And also just the way that they've changed up their offense, kind of democratized things. And so they're playing more within the flow. They aren't as reliant on Ja, but to was his point earlier, like, Ja has such an incredible game against the Cavs, a game they ultimately lost, but like one of the better games of the past, like month or two that I've seen. 48, 44, 8 and 7. And then he misses four straight games. He's up to 28 absences on the season at this point. And because I've been doing this throughout the year. I have to give you the different maladies that he's facing at this point. And we have in total knee bruise, sprained shoulder, shoulder soreness, thigh soreness, foot soreness, back soreness, illness, and now a hamstring soreness. And so that's tough. We're getting into double digit different things. There's just these little nagging things. So if I don't know if he's going to be available and it doesn't seem like they know that on practically a game to game level at this point, it's hard to really know what to expect for them in this race. So I agree with you guys.
- [27:00]
Big Waz
Are we letting Ja off the hook because he's skinny? Do we know that he's working on his body as much as we know Luka isn't? You know what I mean? Like Ja, what's his name? Zion Williamson. Isn't Is Ja getting off the hook of not being in the cryo chamber and you know, going to Germany and doing all the psychotic things that the guys do at the top level because he's a slim guy, we're letting him off the hook, man.
- [27:26]
Justin Varier
Let me take this a step further. Is chasing Ja off of social media why? We don't see the hard work he's putting into his body and if anything think it's the NBA's fault for not giving us full access to this guy. Just working his ass off and now we think of him differently.
- [27:44]
Big Waz
I like that, man. You could be this guy's agent.
- [27:46]
Justin Varier
I know. Hey, let me tell you about one of my favorite bets that Fanduel has right now. They're called player performance doubles. If you don't know about them, you got to check them out. They're these two leg parlays already made for you. Fanduel takes an NBA player prop, then combines it with a bet on that player's team. They have a bunch of them for every game. You just have to pick the one you like. So we're looking at Monday slate in the NBA. And I like the Dallas Mavericks minus two and a half at the Brooklyn Nets. I know, I know. Dallas struggling of late. I think they've lost a bunch of games in a row before they beat the Pistons the other night. But they have been better when P.J. washington plays. There's also an outside chance that Anthony Davis might be playing in this game as at least as we're recording this right now. But PJ Washington kind of puts them on another level. Surprisingly enough, he practically took down the Thunder at least once or twice earlier in the season and so that's why I like him to score 20 plus points at minus 120 in this game. Minus 120 not the best odds, but I think combined with the Mavs to win at minus two and a half. You got yourself a little bit of bet there. So and whether you want to ride with my pick or make your own, FanDuel is giving all customers a profit boost exclusively for these bets on Tuesday. So just head to FanDuel.com Ringer MBA to get your profit boost. Make every Moment More with FanDuel America's number one sports book must be 21 plus and present in select states or 18 plus and present in DC. Opt in required bonus issued as non withdrawable profit boost tokens. Restrictions apply including any token expiration and max wager amount. See terms@sportsbook.fanduel.com gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit RG Help. Why don't we go off to the 6 seed then just below this because we're talking kind of around there. Warriors, Wolves, Clippers are the teams in the mix there. Warriors currently ahead. Wolves half game back. Clippers one game back after last night's game against the Thunder. Mike, who do you like out of those three teams?
- [29:53]
Michael Pina
I to get the six? I like the Timberwolves. I don't necessarily like the Timberwolves as the best playoff team out of this group, but again, just looking at how I mean they have the easiest schedule remaining in the Western Conference. I love how their bench has played over the last month or so. They have. You know, it's it's really difficult for me to get too excited about any team that has Julius Randle on it. And it's really funny how great they've been with Julius Randle on the bench. Plus 26 net rating in March without him with like shocking the greatest defense of all time. But a lot of it is schedule based, to be honest with you, where if you just look at who they're facing, who they have to play, there's just going to be a lot of wins for the Minnesota Timberwolves. But I don't think they're the best team.
- [30:53]
Big Waz
Yeah, you combine that with Steph Curry's knickknacks and the general age of the three best players by far on the Warriors. These guys are all older kind of guys and so you have to be extra mindful when they have a certain ailment like this idea of like, yo, just play through it like with older guys playing through it can mean playing yourself into a permanent season ending injury. Right. Like, it's different for guys of their age with their minutes load throughout their careers. But again, I think Golden State would really, really, really like to get the hell about the playing. You know, it feels like it's something that they care about and the way that they've ratcheted up again their defense, like, it's not hard for guys to get up and want to drop 30 and, and want to be one of the best, everybody gets excited for that. But the fact that this team has turned their defense into just a straight up steel trap where at certain points, even when it's looking bleak, these guys flip a switch in the fourth quarter the other day and just a game that it looked like they were about to throw away and just in the fourth quarter just put the clamps on a team. I think they're still in it, but as Mike said, the schedule just might not be permitting and add that to Steph Curry's you know, nagging situation and then, you know, like, the plan is not going to be the end of the world because these teams at the bottom of the plane in the west are not good. They're not good teams.
- [32:29]
Michael Pina
Can I ask a Warriors related question for you guys? Is, do you think Jimmy Butler is going to get MVP votes?
- [32:37]
Justin Varier
Do you think he should?
- [32:40]
Michael Pina
I'm, I, I'm not going to vote for him. He's not going to be on my ballot. But short list, I want to see who, who has the balls to do it. Because you combine this turnaround that the Golden State warriors have had where they have like the second highest net rating and the best defense, as Wise was talking about since the All Star break with what has happened to the Miami Heat. And it's like, yeah, and it's like, is this, this guy's obviously an extremely valuable basketball player. Turns out he's like really good when he's, when he's on the court without Steph, like, his individual production in a Warriors uniform is insane. Like way more points higher true shooting significantly more free throw attempts. His at rim field goal percentage goes from like 60 to 70%. So I just think he's, he's. I'm not going to do it, but I want to see, I want to see if someone does.
- [33:40]
Big Waz
Here's the thing too. But the problem, I think is that a lot of people in the Bay, the writers who would do it, were kind of down on the deal when it happened and have been slowly being like, all Right. This Jimmy thing is pretty freaking good.
- [33:57]
Justin Varier
So he's better than Andrew Wiggins, I guess.
- [34:00]
Big Waz
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, I don't know if even the Bay Area guys are going to have it in them to be like, wow, like, this was a home run deal. Shoot, man. Steve Kerr was slow to zag. Ah. Do we really need to replace Andrew Wiggins with one of the best wings in of the era? Like, should we really do that and give up a pick in the mid-20s to do? Oh, how could we even think about doing something like that? Like, I wonder if people are just too slow to get on how genuinely great Jimmy has been. Man.
- [34:38]
Justin Varier
I. I don't disagree with what you guys are saying. To play devil's advocate, though, I do think it is the pairing of Steph with Jimmy because he rounds out Steph in a way that he hasn't had since Kevin Durant. Just the fact that, like, he has this playmaker who could shift into file drawing mode practically whenever they need a bucket. They are just like, symbiotic in the way that Draymond is with Steph. And to that point, when I was watching the Hawks game, because for whatever reason I was watching Hawks warriors on a Saturday afternoon because I have no self respect, it makes sense.
- [35:07]
Michael Pina
Me too, Justin. Me too, baby.
- [35:09]
Justin Varier
Hell yeah. Nerds unite. I did feel like the offense lacked the necessary juice without Steph there, which is, to be fair, like, that's going to happen. But I will say, like, I think it was a nice little reminder of like, the impact of Steph even before Butler got there, which I don't think any of us were really putting into question. But I did hear a lot about this. Especially when we do the top 100 all the time. It's hard. A lot of pushback. Like, oh, Stephen have too high. Do you not see, like, he's missing all these games? The impact isn't there. It's like, well, no, he just doesn't have the right guys around him. And he's definitely proven that, especially when he's been out of late.
- [35:43]
Big Waz
Dude, these are the guys they were trying to trot out as second best guys. It was freaking Pajemski. It's Kaminga. It's W. Like, what are we doing here? Like. Like these guys are not actual second best players on a serious team. Like, it was insane. Like, the second bet your second best offensive player was Buddy healed when we started the season. That's insanity, guys.
- [36:11]
Justin Varier
That, to be fair, Buddy was on. On a heater for like a month, but then he hasn't made a shot since.
- [36:16]
Big Waz
Crazy talk, you know, and then you got Jimmy Butler, who's barely. Who's not even two at the time of the trade, not even two years removed from an insane finals run. You know, it's like, oh, Steph. With really good players. Oh, my God. It's like, good. Like, who could have seen that coming? It's craziness.
- [36:36]
Michael Pina
I have a question about the warriors, though. Like, this reintegration of Jonathan Kuminga into their rotation. Because it hasn't been pretty. No, it hasn't. And he is so, like, duplicative of what Jimmy is. But Jimmy is obviously like, the good at it, best version of that player. And so I just don't. I don't know what role Kaminga has on this team. When he was hurt, they made the trade. Now he's back, and it just hasn't really worked in any type of cohesive way. Whereas someone like Moses Moody or Pajimski, those guys make sense. And those guys in the starting five, when they're small, with Draymond at the five, that lineup is killing it. And it. It is cohesive, and it just fundamentally works. But Kaminga, I don't understand. I don't know what to do there.
- [37:30]
Big Waz
You know, he hasn't found a role because he doesn't embrace a role. The guy has to realize a lot of.
- [37:39]
Justin Varier
A lot of mustard on that line. Yeah, you're right.
- [37:43]
Big Waz
He has to realize, like, yo, get off of my ball. Like, you're not an arm ball guy. Get off my ball. If, if, if, if anything, you will let you attack a closeout every now and again, but, like, you should be shooting wide open shots, and I mean wide open, Attacking closeouts, attacking in transition. A cutter off the ball. Good screen setter, physical on defense, on the wing, like, he's trying to get paid.
- [38:14]
Michael Pina
Like, you know what I mean? Like. And now that they have paid Jimmy Butler, I just. I just. I'd see a real disconnect there. And I don't. I don't know what. What they did.
- [38:25]
Justin Varier
What role does he play on. On a good team if he would.
- [38:27]
Big Waz
Make himself a winning type of player? I bet you he'd get paid if he showed himself to be that kind of guy. But he's. He's. He's not doing that. He thinks. He thinks he's Kobe and he's not.
- [38:40]
Justin Varier
He's a power big who, whenever he has been able to attack downhill, play with force. He looks like the type of talent that we all kind of expected him to be who the warriors have desperately been hoping for him to be but just doesn't also fit as you as you mentioned with Butler and everything else going and you see guys like moody guys like Pazemski who play more of the warriors free flowing style just slot into role so seamlessly. It's so tough because he seems more outside of that than ever before. Honestly. I think Kamingo would be at his best if he's rolling hard if he was playing next to a spacing big. Like for instance if they traded him to Wizards to the Wizards like if they basically the Golden State just decided we're going to, we're going to send every problem child to Washington. Like I actually think he makes a little sense with playing off of SAR where you could have that front court compliment that he needs. But I just don't know like if he's, he's not going to be a defender, like you're not going to let him run your second unit because you have Jimmy to do that now. Like, like what role is he playing.
- [39:36]
Michael Pina
Stuff.
- [39:40]
Justin Varier
But I do think this race probably comes down to Steph and what they're calling a pelvic contusion. I don't really know what that is, but maybe the Letts family can, can shine some light on that for us. I think if he, he has been reportedly traveling to Miami to meet the team he could play as soon as their next game. We'll see. That seems a little bit soon for.
- [40:03]
Big Waz
Such an will he needs to play against Miami. They're the worst team in the NBA.
- [40:07]
Justin Varier
They're horrible, really bad. But I think we also have to talk about the Clippers in this race who have completely righted things. Pina, you have long been on the Clippers ship. Are you excited to see Kawhi back in killer mode yet again?
- [40:21]
Michael Pina
This is just, this is what we want. You know, I am over the moon about the Kawhi Leonard that I've seen over the past couple of weeks. His game against the Cleveland Cavaliers was euphoria in my living room even. I know that they lost against the Oklahoma City Thunder, but just watching this dude get to his spots, play real minutes, the mid range turnaround is there, the fall away from the baseline is there. He's overpowering. I mean he had a play where he's and I know how the Oklahoma, Oklahoma City Thunder play defense but you know they had Alex Caruso on him for most of the second half and he's got him at the nail and just backing him down and he drew a Triple team at the nail and it's like, okay, I'm just going to kick it out to Norm Powell for three. So it's just like, I love Kawhi. I love the Clippers depth. I love how Zubots is playing. I love Norm Pal. I'm a little nervous about this James Harden foot injury. We don't know what's going on there. He hurt himself last night. But I just, I. There's so much to like in terms of how they've kind of ramped everything up to the point where you can play Kawhi. He's played 35, 37 against the Memphis Grizzlies in a win and 40 against the Oklahoma City Thunder. So yeah, to your point, of course Kawhi does not finish seasons healthy. That is obviously a thing not to be argued with. But the way that this season has, has gone for him where he, you know, last year makes all NBA plays, a ton of minutes during the regular season, gets hurt in the playoffs, I feel more confident and I think the Clippers could feel more confident with how this season has gone where he's basically not playing at the start and slowly working his way up and getting into game shape, getting into playoff ready shape in a role where he doesn't need to do a ton of stuff because all these other guys have spent most of the regular season winning games without him and they've assumed this defense first identity. They make the moves at the trade deadline to get someone like Bodom Bogdanovich who's played really well for them so far. Even Ben Simmons, like, honestly, he's their backup center and their backup point guard right now and he's looking at the rim. He's like perfectly wrestling. Exactly. On like a Vetman deal or whatever is being paid. So I like them a lot and I feel like no one should be pumped about seeing them in the first round. And that includes, I'm not picking them against the Thunder, but that includes Oklahoma City Thunder, in my opinion, was just.
- [43:01]
Justin Varier
Chomping at the bits here.
- [43:02]
Michael Pina
Just crickets. Just crickets.
- [43:03]
Big Waz
Yeah, I look, look, look what they've done on defense. I think their coaching staff deserves a ton of credit because I don't think anybody came into this season thinking that the Clippers were going to be one of the nastiest, feistiest, you know, defensive units in the NBA. I certainly didn't see this coming. And so I think they deserve a ton of credit for carving out a sort of identity for the team where it's like what we do is we Go out and we stop people and you know, and I think, you know, Zoo Zoobox deserves a ton of credit. Cause he's just like a straight up paint clog. Like, you cannot do anything when that guy is near the rim. And look, it's, it's been a, it's. It's been a nice story. I. I just think, you know, it's James Harden. Guys like, yeah, like, they're going to count on James Harden for big offense, whereas it's like, he's just not that kind of guy. You can't rely on James Harden to score for you. And Kawhi Leonard, yes, he, he looked nice last night. The physicality is still there where he overwhelms people with just how big and strong and you know, just needs a minimal amount of space to get off. Probably the best mid range jumper in the NBA. Like, I don't doubt that. I just don't see that. They're just not dynamic enough and it's just so straightforward and like, all right, keep James Harden in front of you. Don't fall for his stupid tricks. It'll be fine. He's going to brick all of his shots. Can't finish above length anymore. Like, he's done pretty slow. And then Kawhi Leonard is. Kawhi Leonard.
- [44:33]
Michael Pina
False. But okay, continue.
- [44:35]
Big Waz
James Harden is slow, please. And Kawhi Leonard is Kawhi Leonard. Like, he's, you know, like every time he gets up for a layup, I'm just like, oh, is he okay when he landed? Like, it's. I don't know why, especially just. And I know Michael does this too. Justin does. Has been doing this literally for four consecutive years since this show has started. In this formulation of me and Justin potting on a weekly basis multiple times. This man has been falling for the Clippers. Okie doke. The Clippers bamboozle every single year with this freaking team.
- [45:16]
Justin Varier
It's easy to fall for, though. Like, you see Kawhi out there in March averaging 25, 7, 3, 2 steals on 52, 40, 78. And while, yes, there is a clear lack of athleticism there, like clearly the string of injuries now, which is a laundry list at this point, are starting to take effect. Just the fact that he has such efficiency of moving, that his handle is so tight, that everything he does is so decisive, I think plays to his strength to be able to kind of combat that to the point where like I was expecting, if he could just be healthy in some proximity of what he was, they would have the defense. Plus he can Give him the offense a pop that they're missing. And he kind of has been that one. 17.5 offensive rating this season, obviously in a smaller sample than the rest of the team, but that would be fifth offensively in the entire NBA with Kawhi in there. I just think it's not just Kawhi too. And I think Mike kind of spoke to this. It's just like the whole thing has really kind of clicked into pace. Like we, we bang on the Sixers for going out and getting Paul George. The flip side of that is the Clippers let this guy walk and they kind of replaced him in the aggregate with guys like Chris Dunn who sign in trade for a second round SW on the first day of free agency. I remember us being like, what the fuck is this? And that guy's one of the best defensive point of attack guys in the league. You mentioned Zoo Zoo's incredible.
- [46:37]
Big Waz
Yeah.
- [46:37]
Justin Varier
Derrick Jones Jr. Has been really great, but like they revamped the entire bench, which was like a pretty bad sign that they had to go out and basically swap half of their bench in order to, to. To make a run here though. But I think Bogey has been great. He was awful in Atlanta earlier in the season. I know he's constantly dealing with injuries, but he's. He was 8 for 8 the other night against the Cavs. Couldn't miss a shot. Like that is the pop that they needed in order to round out this team. So hold on.
- [47:04]
Big Waz
I want to get the Thunder, but I believe because he scoffed when I said James Harden's not going to generate quality, efficient offense.
- [47:12]
Michael Pina
You think he's going to like, he's plus 1, 33. He's. He's plus 133.
- [47:19]
Big Waz
He's going to score against Lou Dort. You can't say that with a straight face. You can't believe that James Harden's going to do anything of consequence against playoff set defenses. You can't believe that.
- [47:33]
Michael Pina
I think Harden looked pretty good against the Oklahoma City Thunder defense last night. He's not the reason that they lost the game over his last 10 games. He's like first or second in points. Like first or second and assist first or second and three pointers made first and plus minus.
- [47:49]
Big Waz
This has never happened in James Harden's career when he was younger, stronger, faster, better. Like, what are we doing with this guy? What is like, why are we falling for this smoke and mirrors James Harden thing again?
- [48:03]
Justin Varier
It's not.
- [48:04]
Michael Pina
It's. Okay, okay, okay. It's not a smoke and mirrors thing. He's clearly a plus player, right?
- [48:10]
Big Waz
He's a plus player.
- [48:11]
Michael Pina
He's a plus player. He'S on a team where he does not, in my opinion, have to do everything on offense. He's not the guy in Houston, of course, anymore. He's got multiple ball handlers on his team.
- [48:24]
Big Waz
Okc.
- [48:25]
Michael Pina
He's. If, like, I just think like, if you're, if you're going to denigrate the Clippers, like, I don't believe in James Harden isn't a, isn't a good argument to me. That's just.
- [48:40]
Justin Varier
Here's the thing with Harden at this point, like, I just think he's so, so much more dependent on setting up everybody else. He's almost in the Trey Young zone where his shooting like numbers are just atrocious. And I think if you're counting on that in a playoff series, let alone of the hardness that is stacked up over the course of what, the past decade and a half, like, no, they're not going to be that successful. But that's why it's so important that Kawhi plays at this level. That Powell kind of comes back from this injury and is a little bit better that they have other guys in order to kind of activate because that's when he's been at his best. So we'll see. I think we're all kind of sort of saying the same thing where we're giving them credit for being successful, but like, we don't like them in a playoff matchup, especially against the Thunder. And even the Rockets are a bad matchup for them. Just because you see guys like Wiggins and all the swipe downs they have, like having amendments, Thompson and some of these other guys swarming Kawhi probably isn't your best outcome there.
- [49:30]
Big Waz
I. The only reason I like the Rockets matchup for them is the Rockets are young, right? Like outside of and Dylan Brooks, it's like they're going to be a pretty easy team to solve in terms of, you know, stopping them in a half court offense. It's just a matter of, you know, the Clippers feeling like, look, we got veterans, we got Kawhi, who's just a better offensive generator than anything the Rockets can muster up. And we like our chances. But like, would anybody be surprised if the Clippers lost in five games to the Rockets? I certainly would not.
- [50:00]
Michael Pina
I would be surprised, but that's just me. I would pick them pretty confidently in that series. And I like the Rockets, I do, but I just think they're above average at every position in like going nine deep, ten deep maybe.
- [50:16]
Justin Varier
Yeah. This episode is brought to you by Smuckers Uncrustables. There's nothing like a snack that comes in clutch. So who's the real mvp? Uncrustables. The best part of the sandwich. It's a round crimped sandwich made with soft pillowy bread filled with peanut butter and jelly. It goes straight from the freezer to your lunchbox, making it easier to pack lunch and sprint out the door. Now that's a morning win. You'll find Smucker's Uncrustables in the freezer aisle. This episode is brought to you by Hyundai. Hyundai knows the road could be a little hectic at the best of times. But just like a great player anticipates the next move on the court, Hyundai helps you anticipate the unexpected on the road. Their available class exclusive advanced safety features like forward collision avoidance assist and blind spot view monitor work to protect you on every drive. Learn more about hyundai@hyundai USA.com Call 562-314-4603 for complete details. This episode is brought to you by Patron. 100% additive free tequila when it comes to ingredients, Patron doesn't need to play games. That's why their tequila is crafted with 100% Weber Blue Agave water and thyme. No sweeteners, no added extracts, no secrets, just 100% additive free tequila. Visit patron tequila.com to learn more. The perfect way to enjoy Patron is responsibly Copyright 2025, imported by the Patron Spirits Company, Coral Gables, Florida. Tequila 40 alcohol by volume. Why don't we flip to the 10th seed now, which is really where the races are heating up. We got three teams technically still in the mix as we go down the stretch. The Suns are currently in the 10 seed, although they share the same record with the Dallas Mavericks, who are in 11th. The Portland Trailblazers, one of the best teams in the NBA over the past, what, two to three months at this point? You're goddamn right. Unfortunately. Might be running out of time. They're two and a half games back. They lost to the Celtics on Sunday, which is sneakily a pretty big game in this race because they're just run out of Runway here. Mike, which of these teams in this furious, very important race for the final play in spot in the west do you like?
- [52:30]
Michael Pina
Oh man.
- [52:33]
Justin Varier
Too many good options to choose from.
- [52:35]
Big Waz
I.
- [52:40]
Michael Pina
I truly have very little respect for all of these teams down here. I think that like, if I have to put my life on it, I would Say, like, I'm confident that the Kings will make the play in, I guess. And then Anthony Davis supposedly coming back as soon as tonight against the the Brooklyn Nets. That's a respectfully doubtful.
- [53:11]
Justin Varier
Yes.
- [53:12]
Michael Pina
Yes. I think he was upgraded to questionable for this one.
- [53:15]
Justin Varier
Oh, really?
- [53:16]
Michael Pina
Yeah. So. So they have enough players to compete in an NBA game. I believe enough healthy players. So I think Dallas maybe. I just can't bring myself to like utter words of faith or confidence in the Phoenix Suns, despite how well they've played over the past couple weeks. I think that team just like totally disgusts me. And then the Portland Trailblazers are. They're, they're really fun and I would love to see them make the plan and get the 10C. But they're just so far behind now after the loss against the Celtics. It's just a huge bummer.
- [53:49]
Big Waz
Do we think anybody, like playing for Phoenix actually wants to be in the play? In, like actually wants to be Colin Gillespie?
- [53:57]
Michael Pina
Colin Gillespie.
- [53:59]
Justin Varier
I think KD does because he's such a real Hooper that he just wants.
- [54:03]
Big Waz
To be out there. Facts. Yeah, I like, this team is so dysfunctional and so obviously not happy with the way things are going. Like, KD's pissed about a trade proposal. Brad Beal is like, how could anybody think I should be traded on a $50 million a year contract that has two years left on it after this year And I start and it barely leaves a mark. And he's pissed about that. Everybody seems to hate. Buddha knows, like, this is just bad.
- [54:44]
Michael Pina
Can I read, Can I read their schedule real quick? Yeah, it's the hardest schedule left in the league. Bucks, Celtics, Timberwolves, Rockets, Bucks, Celtics, Knicks, Warriors, Thunder, Spurs, Kings. Like, I'm sorry, it's not going to happen.
- [55:04]
Justin Varier
Yeah. And that's one where it's like, even if you write off the fact that like the Celtics aren't going to play all their guys, like Sam Houser is going to put up 30 out of nowhere and it's just like they're going to win that game. So that's one where the strength of schedule I think is probably going to dictate things. The Suns have by far the hardest in the league.
- [55:20]
Big Waz
So we're headed to a Dallas 10 seed.
- [55:23]
Justin Varier
Dallas just wins these games, man. Practically since PJ Washington came back, they've been every game that they played. And if you add Anthony Davis into the mix there and then eventually maybe lively and even Gafford, where they're at that point, probably having to play four to three centers in the starting Lineup because those are their best players. But I think they'll have enough because they do have some juice. Like there's still enough left there, even without Kyrie or Luca, where they just kind of are in the mix in these games. And if anything, there's a real. Like, nobody believes in us because they have just heard for months at this point that, like, they all suck and everything is terrible in Dallas and it seems like they want to prove something and so that's probably going to be an enough of an edge.
- [56:03]
Michael Pina
Well, they've won two games in March, to be clear, so they are not good.
- [56:09]
Justin Varier
But. But the past three, they've been. They've been in all of us. They gave away one against Indy. They beat the Pistons with Cade in there. So it's like there's enough juice left over in order to maybe get past the sun.
- [56:20]
Michael Pina
Why are they doing this? Why aren't they losing games on purpose? Can someone explain this to me?
- [56:25]
Justin Varier
Well, I think part of it is actually that they had so few players and that they couldn't sign more, that they actually have to play their good players in order to field a credible roster. Like, you needed PJ Washington to come back just to get to like eight or nine players on a depth chart. And so if he's going to play, if Andy Davis is going to play, you could only be so bad because you can't tell them just be bad and shut them down after like 10 minutes.
- [56:50]
Big Waz
The hard cap situation is come back to ruin everything because they just straight up cannot bring in new scrubs, which I'm sure they would love to do to just get some guys off of the street. Tell A.D. all right, bro, you're on vacation. Start early, start thinking about next year, you're going to be the centerpiece, blah, blah, blah. Same with pj. Like, they can't. They just can't. They can't sign some scrubs off the street. They have to play their actual good players. It's tough.
- [57:22]
Michael Pina
Yeah, they're starting Kai Jones right now. Just should probably tank. But that's just my two cents. What do I know? I wouldn't have traded Luca either.
- [57:32]
Justin Varier
So they need to win back the fans after. After that. So a play in push and one extra game will definitely do that. Was. Are you. Are you part of the Denny Abdia revolution in Portland? Or have you bought a jersey yet? Maybe a tattoo?
- [57:50]
Big Waz
I mean, I always thought Denny Abdia was a good player. Even from his rookie year. He always showed signs. Like, I guess, you know, I feel like whenever, even when somebody gets picked like eighth or seventh in the lottery, people like fans tend to expect like, oh, this guy could be an all Star. And so because he like showed that he clearly wasn't going to be, that people were down on it because he was a lottery pick. But he's always been a good player, man, and that he steadily improved upon what he's been doing and in a more prominent role than he's ever had now in Portland. I'm not surprised that he's doing his thing. Like, am I like running to my couch to go watch Portland play? No, no, I'm not yet sure. But I'm happy for him and what he's doing for sure. And this is better than being in Washington, isn't it?
- [58:39]
Justin Varier
Oh yeah, I would say so.
- [58:43]
Big Waz
Just spiritually is just better.
- [58:45]
Justin Varier
I mean, he's found a different gear to his game at this point. Like he didn't have the no breaks, battering ram drives to the basket in Washington or at the very least it was a very small part of his game. Like he just keeps adding more and more to the point where like he's their best player. I saw Mike Wright on the, on the ringer today, like he might make an All Star game down the road. I think that's very much in play, especially because the Portland unfortunately don't have much of a route to get a player better than him at this point. But, but he's been a revelation. He's practically been 17, 18, 7 and 4 since his first 11 games in the season. And I think not only did he get traded, but also he's Israeli and so he had a lot of things kind of keeping him from jumping out just to start with. But he's been great and I think he's someone who's kind of turned things around in a way that you don't typically see of a player even in their mid-20s at this point.
- [59:37]
Michael Pina
Yeah, I thought he was really good when they made that trade and some people were critical of it at the time. I thought, you know, he's on one of the better, more, more team friendly contracts in the league. He defends multiple positions capably. And yeah, to your point, Justin, like the way he's getting downhill, the way he's getting to the free throw line, the way he's just attacking the rim, getting to his right hand whenever he wants. Still throws some pretty wild passes that are intercepted and taken the other way semi regularly. But overall, now that his threes are falling too on a consistent basis, he's just a really, really good player. And you can go through the box score and see like multiple 30 plus point games with 31, 16 and 8 against Memphis a couple weeks ago. He had 36, 7, 7 assists, 8 rebounds against the Denver Nuggets a few days ago. So just like those are great numbers. I don't know what to say. And this is like these are meaningful games as well, which he never played any of in the.
- [60:47]
Big Waz
Washington.
- [60:48]
Michael Pina
Washington.
- [60:49]
Justin Varier
Yeah, he's been a revelation there. Before we go, let's flip to the Eastern Conference and kind of just like waving my hands frantically because it's pretty much just all over the place after the top two. And even Cleveland has been struggling until last night's game against Utah. I had asked you guys before this, like what about the three seed race? Because at the time I think I was drawing these questions up while watching the Knicks struggle against the Washington Wizards who mounted a pretty furious comeback against them. And then toward the end of the game watching Rick Brunson have to talk Tibbs into taking his starters off the floor where the game was in hand with like one minute left to go and Towns was like clearly barreled over like dying. There's still three games up on the Pacers and then everybody else. And so it seems unlikely, Mike, but considering that they don't have Brunson, is there any possibility that a team like the Pacers could jump them at this point?
- [61:44]
Michael Pina
I don't, I don't, I don't, I, I don't think there's enough Runway here for that to happen. You know, New York doesn't have a particularly difficult schedule down the stretch here and I just haven't seen enough from a Bucks team or a Pacers team to get me super excited that they have enough momentum to jump the Knicks with. Was it three, three and a half game lead? I think yeah. Three game lead that they have so far. So as terrible as the Knicks looked on Wednesday, they. Last Wednesday they lost to the spurs in. Or whenever that game was, they lost to the spurs and just ridiculous fashion. And then they lost to the Hornets in a back to back and then the Wizards game that you mentioned, Justin. But I just, it's, it's almost as much to say about the, the Pacers and the Bucks is just like these inconsistent teams and like the Bucks have this dame thing happening now with his groin or his hamstring, I don't know, can't remember. And you had. I don't know if we, how much we want to talk about this, but the Tyrese Halliburton Trenton, Wofford Beef, which was just very funny. I don't know if you guys are up on that.
- [62:59]
Justin Varier
You're having a down year.
- [63:00]
Michael Pina
Sure, you're having a day. I'm so glad you said that.
- [63:03]
Justin Varier
Was one of the best clapbacks I think I've seen, especially from a guy who's like, kind of just clinging to a roster spot at this point.
- [63:11]
Big Waz
Like what?
- [63:13]
Michael Pina
He was literally like, I'm undrafted and you're double teaming me. You're garbage. Like, and I just thought that that was one of the great insults of the season that I've seen.
- [63:24]
Justin Varier
It was almost like a blogger critique on a podcast or something. It's like your estimated box plus minus isn't as good as it was last season.
- [63:36]
Michael Pina
Well, Hal did the move where he tries to throw the ball off a guy's back inbounding it and Watford stole it and then hit a three. And it's just like, that is. They should have ended the game right there. They should have just ended the game. I don't, I've never seen that before. Yeah, I have not either. And there should be some type of fine, some type of suspension. I don't know what the league should do about that, but you can't be having that in the NBA. It's just embarrassing for everyone involved.
- [64:02]
Justin Varier
Yeah. Unfortunately for Watford, Halberton has kind of rebounded over the past couple of years. So yes, in totality he is having a down year, but lately he is having quite a good second half. Was there any of these teams, do you like any of them? If we're talking like four to six for.
- [64:17]
Big Waz
I think so. Man, they're so inconsistent and like, the idea that they would go on a run, you know, like basically win 10 of their last 12 or something. While the Knicks languished as Brunson is coming back from his injury. It's just, I just can't see it from either one of these two teams, the Bucks or the. They just haven't shown this, like, ability to string together a, a really solid or dominant 12 games. And so I don't know. I, I, I don't see it for them now, the Bucks, like, I, I like, I'm not sure who's going to finish four or five between the Bucks and the Pacers, but in terms of catching the Knicks, I don't think either one of them are.
- [65:04]
Michael Pina
Does it matter? Does that, does any of this matter?
- [65:06]
Big Waz
Yeah, facts.
- [65:07]
Justin Varier
Probably not. I mean, unless you want to get one step farther. Like, who do you guys like in a 4 or 5?
- [65:14]
Big Waz
What if the Bucks are like, we want to play the Knicks in the first round, you know, and let Detroit handle the Pacers in round one? I don't know.
- [65:24]
Justin Varier
That's probably the better question. Which team do the Knicks not want to see in that six spot? Would it be the Pacers because they, because of last year? Would it be the Bucks because they have Giannis? Would it be the Pistons because they've kind of just have this physicality, for instance, that can maybe match with what the Knicks bring?
- [65:41]
Michael Pina
I, I've been thinking about this question because I just wrote about the Pistons, a team that I like a lot. And I wouldn't really feel great about playing the Pistons if I was the Knicks. To be honest, I wouldn't feel great about playing Giannis, although I have, like, you look at that roster and it's just like Kyle Kuzma is shooting like 29% from threes in a Bucks uniform, and he's in the starting five, and Kevin Porter Jr. Is somehow shooting 50% from three. And that's like a bad thing for the Bucks because then you got to play them. I mean, it's just so. There's just so much bad in with these teams. And I actually, I have a lot of respect for the Pacers. I will say they're probably the best of the bunch here, but like, I don't know, I. Maybe it's just my, my pessimism about the Knicks as a team that can do anything in the playoffs. I don't know what it is, but I wouldn't really feel super excited about my first round matchup period if I was, if I was the Knicks, to be honest with you, at this point.
- [66:50]
Justin Varier
Yeah, I think it goes in the order of the standings in terms of, like, what gives the, the Knicks the most fright. Like, it would be the Pacers because they've kind of found themselves to the best team on the board here. Then obviously the Bucks have Damon Giannis. You have to fear them at any point. But like, they're playing Ryan Rounds right now and is Dame going to be peak Dame by a playoff series. And the Pistons, like all credit to the Pistons, love what they've done. Like the fact that they've gone from worse to 6 seed is the type of turnaround that typically takes like, like a Tim Duncan or like a major acquisition in order to make Tobias Harris, if you will, to buy a Malik Beasley even. But I think probably this is where their magic runs out.
- [67:27]
Big Waz
Yeah. And I wonder if, you know, Brunson doesn't go down. And the Knicks, you know, aren't like 4 and 8 in their last 12 or whatever the hell it is that we're even like worried about a Pistons matchup. I don't. I don't know. I don't think so. And again, like the Pistons, super young team, young teams tend to stink it up in the postseason, make a lot of mental errors. Pistons play with a lot of toughness. I get it. They got a lot of back alley guys on their team. But I don't know. I don't think the Knicks should be overly worried about playing the Pistons.
- [68:02]
Justin Varier
I think if they're not starting campaign, they'll probably be pretty okay.
- [68:07]
Michael Pina
It's a good call.
- [68:08]
Justin Varier
I still believe, like, anything is possible for the Knicks when fully healthy. The problem is they're never fully healthy at this point. And I do wonder going into the postseason, especially after what we saw last year when Tibbs put a lot of wear on the tires in the regular season. Like, is it going to get worse? Like, is OG going to be fully healthy? Like, how many more games are going to get from towns? Like, he can't play 40 minutes for 90 games in an entire season? This is fucking insane.
- [68:34]
Big Waz
We'll see. It's going to get put to the limits to the test.
- [68:37]
Justin Varier
Do you think the Bulls can, can make a run here, you guys? So Bulls get, get to the seven seed. They play the Celtics, knock them off, and then it's. And then it's giddy versus the Thunder in the Finals.
- [68:51]
Big Waz
Dude, the east playing mix is so gross.
- [68:56]
Justin Varier
Like, they need to go to true tv. They can't even be on NBA TV for those games.
- [69:02]
Michael Pina
Dude.
- [69:03]
Big Waz
Dude, the fact, and it's so crazy that Miami is hard. One in one and nine. They last 10. Okay. I think they lost nine straight or something insane like that. The longest losing streak in the entire Spoester era. They are. Let me, let me see. Let me count. They are six games ahead of Toronto for the 10th seed. Yeah.
- [69:27]
Michael Pina
Every team below them has been trying to lose basketball games for several months.
- [69:30]
Justin Varier
That's right. Yeah.
- [69:32]
Big Waz
This is insane, dude.
- [69:35]
Justin Varier
And they needed Wiggins to go off for 42 to win the other night, so.
- [69:38]
Michael Pina
The Charlotte Hornets. Yeah.
- [69:40]
Justin Varier
Against the Hornets. Yeah. Everything else has been going great in Miami.
- [69:45]
Big Waz
Yeah.
- [69:45]
Justin Varier
All right, why don't we wrap it there? Mike, thank you for joining us.
- [69:49]
Michael Pina
Always a pleasure. The Tracy Letts of group chat.
- [69:53]
Big Waz
That's right.
- [69:55]
Justin Varier
In one way or another. That's for sure. Thank you to Isaiah Blakely. Thank you to Ben Cruz. We'll be back on Thursday. We'll talk to you then. Must be 21 plus and present in select states. For Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18+ and present in D.C. gambling problem call 1-800- gambler or visit RGB help.com, call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or 800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text HOPE NY in New York.